From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jan 29 10:56:54 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:12:07 2005 Subject: Not-so-OT point of philosophy In-Reply-To: <200201290329.TAA12866@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200201290329.TAA12866@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <02Feb1.033745est.119122@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >I started internal medicine rotation at the Loma Linda VA Hospital today >and noted that the entire place is crawling with WinTerms (by Wyse, no less), >running WinCE, connected via Citrix to a Win2K Advanced Server host. There >are only a few "real" PCs there -- in fact, I think the Macs might outnumber >them. Verizon out here uses a Citrix plugin for inputing phone requests from the corporate/Government side and they push a whole NT/2000 desktop over the line to the remote computer, which also must be running NT at least. It's so slow that most of the time it appears to be locked up. Our LAN is no slouch either, as we stream over it to the 'net a couple of times a week. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 31 19:26:56 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:12:07 2005 Subject: Low cost Thin Film Thickness Measurement System In-Reply-To: <200202010301687.SM00297@Sales> Message-ID: On 1 xxx -1, Sales@MissionPeakOptics.com wrote: > visit our website www.MissionPeakOptics.com for more information Time to restrict access to subscribers only. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jan 31 19:22:28 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:12:14 2005 Subject: Computer Museum of America on Tuesday night's PBS NOVA (fwd) In-Reply-To: Julius Sridhar "Re: Computer Museum of America on Tuesday night's PBS NOVA (fwd)" (Jan 31, 18:07) References: Message-ID: <10202010122.ZM23216@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 31, 18:07, Julius Sridhar wrote: > On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > > > > Will there be anybody able to tape it and then convert it to an AVI file > > > or mpg > > > for download? > > > > Pretty please, NO avi. I'd hate to have to install Windows. > > I view AVI's on UNIX all the time. Maybe, but which codec? I can only view about the half the ones I come across. Some codecs only exist for Windows. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 31 19:20:38 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:12:14 2005 Subject: Nuclear Data 66? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > I have seen these before. We got Nuclear Data stuff from Hanford. It is > used as a computer that ran process instrumentation in the Nuclear Power > Plant/Research s. Usually they were 11/03s, sometimes upgraded to > 11/23s, in a small Qbus cage. Cool. > Often there are a lot of custom cards for the process instrumentation. What > cards are in it, or did you mention and I just miss it. I only was able to check a couple cards because it was hard getting at them all (too many cables strapped over the cards). There are two EPROM cards in the back of the cage which I assumed had some firmware. > Things to look for are EPROM cards. Does it boot? What is the floppy drive > hooked up to? I couldn't fire it up because it uses the old-style oval power cord. I have one around somewhere but misplaced it. I didn't see where the disk drive was attached to but I assume it was to one of the cards. > Often there are custom display cards. Sometimes A/D & D/A cards. There must've been both types. Something has to drive the CRT. There were also 8 or so BNC connectors on the back, presumably for connecting up to some external equipment. > Did you check to see if it glows in the dark? :-) Any idea where it > originally came from? It apparently came out of I think Humboldt State University California. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jan 31 20:39:41 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:12:14 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: Mike Ford "Packrat genome project questions" (Jan 29, 10:28) References: Message-ID: <10202010239.ZM23813@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 29, 10:28, Mike Ford wrote: > How many people on this list still have their 1st computer? second? third? > every computer you ever used/owned? The very first computer I used was an Elliott 4100 which belonged to a large local bank. I was at secondary (high) school, and we wrote programs in Algol on coding forms, handed them in, and got printout back a week later. Usually it was an error listing, unfortunately. Well, it taught me the worh of desk testing and dry-running at an early age:-) I never got to see the computer, though. The school did have it's own Teletype (ASR33) and I got to admire that. If you ever come across a copy, the textbook we used was "Computer Programming for Schools: First steps in Algol", by Donald Michie, Andrew Ortony, and R.M.Burstall. The teacher thanked in the preface for class-testing the material was my maths teacher, and I still have my original copy of the book. It cost 10 shillings (50p, or about 70 cents) in 1969. The next machine I came across would have been one of the three PDP-8s at a high school where I worked as a technician about 1980. They had a PDP-8/E, and 8/F (I think), and one other which I can't remember, as well as a similar-sized HP. The 8/F was mounted on a frame with castors and often connected to a VDU; the 8/E was in a rack with two TU56s, and the other, called EDWARD (Electronic Device With Auxiliary Rotating Disks) was in a dual rack with a high speed papertape reader, a pair of RK05s, and some extra core. It also had a VDU and (wonder of wonders) a "fast" Anadex 8000 parallel printer. The 8/E ran one of the multiuser Edusystem OSs, though I can't remember which one; it had three ASR33s attached. I never got any of those machines, though I kept in touch with some of the enthusiasts amoung the staff. Some years ago, I was saddened to discover on a trip to help them with the 11/34 that replaced the -8s, that all the -8 stuff had been junked when it became too hard to look after. However, I now have a PDP-8/E of my own, though not as well endowed as the one at that school. The same school got an Apple ][ while I was there, and one of the early (pre-production) BBC Micros. I now have an Apple ][+ of my own, not from that school, but from one nearby. When I left that school to work as a microcomputer technician at a local college (run by the same Local Education Authority) I bought an Exidy Sorcerer. I sold that eventually, but kept in touch with its new owner for a while. I eventually got a replacement a few years ago. I used to use a converted TV with it, but eventually bought a little 9" mono monitor, which I still have (it's useful because it has a wide sync range and unusually large brightness and gain ranges). The college had several PETs, a few 2001's and several 3000 and 4000 series, some with a MuPET disk sharing "network". It was horribly unreliable, I remember, due to long ribbon cables, flaky connectors, and fairly awful software. I don't have any of those college machines, but I do have a 2001-8K and an 8050 dual drive, and used to have a 3032. My first printer was a Creed 7 teleprinter, with a Heath Robinson arrangement of mains transformers mounted on plywood, and a kludge board to convert current-loop to sort-of-RS232. I remember having great trouble finding 10_1/2" fanfold paper for it, as most paper by then was 11_1/2" wide. Luckily a friend who worked at the computer centre at oneof the banks got me some. The next problem was getting the right baud rate, so I made a little adapter to fit in the Sorcerer, so it generated 50 baud and 300 baud on the serial interface instead of 300 and 1200. The last problem was the character set -- 5-bit teleprinter code, not ASCII. I hand-assembled a driver to deal with that. I found the original tape the other day. Oh, and I remember removing some of the print hammers and modifying them so that by overstriking, I could do a reasonable impression of most of the characters in the uppper-case ASCII set. I inherited some money from a relative a year or two later, and replaced the TV with the monitor, and the Creed with a Centronics 737. I worked out how to make the 8039 MCU in the printer read an external ROM instead of the on-chip code, and turned my 737 into a 739 (the main difference is the ability to print graphics). I still have the printer. At the college, I got more interested in BBC Micros, and got two of my own. I sold the Sorcerer to pay for the first one, a Model A, and saved for a while to buy the parts to upgrade it to a Model B. Then I got another Model B, and much later another, and other models. Some time around 1984/85 I wired two rooms in the house with an Econet network for the Beebs. I don't have those original machines any more (I hope one day I'll catch up with the *** who borrowed Serial No. 629 and never returned it) but I have several of about the same age. In fact I've had (and still have) quite a lot of Acorn stuff, as evntually I went to work for them. I still have my first Archimedes, serial number 0000002. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jan 31 18:48:33 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:12:14 2005 Subject: Mac 512k References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1A1A385A@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <3C59E5E1.50DC5575@jetnet.ab.ca> Christopher Smith wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Casper Warnich [mailto:casper@Mac.com] > > > I got an old mac 512k, and when i try to turn it on, a dead > > man appears > > and a number is show. > > (The number changes every time I turn it on.) > > Can it be because there is no keyboard? > > Trying to boot from a hard disk? Don't do it -- at least until > you bring it up from a floppy. Trying the same floppy over and > over? Try a different one. If that doesn't work, clean the > heads on the drive, and try again, etc, etc... :) > > Remember that it takes a relatively old OS to boot a 512k mac. I still remember reading how to upgrade your mac to 512k from 128k. The old solder on new chips over the old ones trick. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From kenmo at vvm.com Thu Jan 31 10:39:11 2002 From: kenmo at vvm.com (emugamer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:12:17 2005 Subject: Unisys Laptop Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020131103911.00795100@vvm.com> what sound driver works with the soundcard on the board and on the power source for the laptop its made by delta elctronics inc im sure u can find one from that company From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 1 00:02:06 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:58 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Dec 2001, Chris wrote: > Oh, and I was taught in the field all my telco knowledge, never went to > school... it is learned from various Bell and private > installers/techs/whathaveyou... so who knows how accurate they are, but I > tend to give them more credence than most schools (except maybe some Bell > installers, the older ones are good, but most of the younger ones suck > royally) I can certainly agree with the installers issue...I had at least 3 younger installer/repair guys out trying to fix a noise issue on a new line I had installed. Bell finally sent out one of their most experienced repair guys, and he fixed the issue permanently. The line he fixed is the most clear phone line I've ever used. -Toth From mythtech at Mac.com Tue Jan 1 00:15:59 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:58 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find Message-ID: >If WE use the wrong term >amongst ourselves, we'll certainly never show others that there's benefit in >calling it a crescent wrench when, to some folks, "the silver-colored >thingie," would do. But, given the arguments that have been going on, you shouldn't call it a Crescent wrench either. That is the name of the manufacturer of a particular kind of wrench, and although generally accepted as meaning an "adjustable wrench" is not any more technically correct than the "Centronics" connector's name. If you ask some mechanics for a crescent wrench, you might get locking pliers... ones that are commonly called a "Vise Grip", which is ALSO technically incorrect for the same reason Crescent is wrong. But then, for the question of the century... if you strictly adhere to calling an item by its name, and NOT by the commonly used term, which in many cases is the manufacturer's or common usage name... what should you call a Yo-Yo? (just seeing how many people know the answer to this one) -chris From mythtech at Mac.com Tue Jan 1 00:20:09 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:58 2005 Subject: Too much college? (was: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find Message-ID: >But didn't he develop the first practical commercial electric chair as >part of his promotion of his power transmission system? >Electrocution is much more energy efficient than having to melt a pot of >iron. Yes... but not as a promotion for HIS power transmission, but rather as a DEMOTION for Westinghouse's. Edison believed in DC power, Westinghouse was pushing AC. In an effort to show that DC was safer than AC, Edison electrocuted an Elephant with Westinghouse's AC power. From there it lead to the Electric Chair as a means of execution. -chris From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 1 00:28:57 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Warp 4 Redux Message-ID: Y'all thought I blew it off, didn't ya? Several of you asked about it, but I expect the best way to handle it is off-list. .... Doc From rschaefe at gcfn.org Tue Jan 1 15:08:38 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: VAXStation 16MB simms on ebay Message-ID: <00d001c19308$7dc3f420$68469280@Y5F3Q8> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1315144257 I believe this is the part number that will fit the VAXStation 4000 m90, and maybe a few others. Still nearly two days to go. A few price points: Last I heard, dealers were buying at ~$1(US)/MB. My 1st 64MB kit was ~$68, and my second 64MB kit was ~$48. Bob From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Jan 1 17:52:54 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Unisys manuals Message-ID: Going through the crap I have in the basement, I ran across a few manuals for an old Unisys unix box I used to have (until my parents moved, and left it behind). If anyone is interested, I'm asking $5 each + actual shipping cost. U5000/20/30/35/40/50 and /55 Systems U5000 Series Operating System -- Installation Guide UP-12693 Rev 1 -- Planning Guide UP-11768 Rev 3 -- Programming Guide UP-11221 -- Installation and Planning Guide UP-12694 Rev 1 -- User Reference Manual Volume 2 UP-11760 Rev 2 Those are all in binders, complete with the black case-thing to make them easy to stack on a book-shelf. All in good condition. Contact me off-list if interested. Thanks -- Pat From classiccmp at knm.yi.org Tue Jan 1 18:34:36 2002 From: classiccmp at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Any AMIGA users? In-Reply-To: <3C30CD8D.8E509B1C@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: Hi, > OK what was the AMIGA that ran both AMIGA and PC software ... (286 + > 68000 ) > cpu cards on a PC style box. Did that have a special software to write > PC disks? > I saw one once - but it was sure slow! I've got an A500 (+A570 and A590, tho you can't use both at once - mildly annoying), an A1200 and a B2000. The 2000 has the original A2088 bridgeboard, which is basically an 8088 based XT on a zorro II card, which hooked into the ISA slots on the amiga motherboard to allow you to use PC cards - but with a 4.77MHz 8088 - yes, it was slow :&) There was also an A2286, which would be the 286 you were talking about. I don't know the specs of the top of my head, but 12MHz seems to ring a bell somewhere. -- Matt --- Web Page: http://knm.yi.org/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ PGP Key fingerprint = 00BF 19FE D5F5 8EAD 2FD5 D102 260E 8BA7 EEE4 8D7F PGP Key http://knm.yi.org/matt-pgp.html From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Jan 1 18:50:38 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Even more SCSI drives available Message-ID: I have 7 Conner CP1080E drives with a sun quick-release mounting bracket on them. No specs on these drives, so go Google for that. Because the unique connector, I cannot test these either. From LFessen106 at aol.com Tue Jan 1 18:50:44 2002 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Seagate MFM drives available Message-ID: In a message dated 12/31/01 12:11:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, SUPRDAVE@aol.com writes: > I got a bunch of functioning seagate MFM drives available. ST-225,238 and 251 > > models as well as some big FH models. All survived a LLF too. Controller > cables also if you need them. Email if interested. > Where are they located? From rschaefe at gcfn.org Tue Jan 1 19:15:16 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment References: <20011230232142.25420.qmail@picarefy.picarefy.com> Message-ID: <014701c1932a$f11fff00$68469280@Y5F3Q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 06:21 PM Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment > Supposing one has a farm of older, relatively slower machines (Sun-2's, > Sun-3's, early SPARCs, 386es, very small VAXen, 68k-based Macs, etc.) > running various Unixes (mostly NetBSD), networked together and connected > to the Net. What does one do with it? > > I've been trying to think of some interesting, moderately useful > distributed-computing project that they could sit and crank away at > and haven't come up with much of anything. All the distributed projects > that I know of are distributed because even fast machines aren't enough by > themselves -- a trailing-edge farm can't make a useful contribution. > > If network Tierra (an artificial-life research project) had ever come to > pass, that would have been a superb application for these beasts. But it > didn't. > > Ideas, anyone? Please? Point yer browser at http://www.aspenleaf.com/distributed/distrib-projects.html for a short list. A few caught my eye: Globus looks like it could be very useful, altho perl 5.whatever is needed for part of the install; and DALiworld looks like it would be pretty neat. > > --James B. Bob From wpointon at earthlink.net Tue Jan 1 07:52:07 2002 From: wpointon at earthlink.net (bill pointon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Warp 4 Redux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: i never would have accused you of that -- i am a very patient person -- i have to be with the lousy slow dialup internet access i am stuck with -- if you are referring again to warp 4 server i would love to download a copy but if you put it up for ftp you will have to leave it up long enough for my max 20 meg/hour speed to get it all -- much obliged for your consideration ---- billp On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 01:28 AM, Doc Shipley wrote: > Y'all thought I blew it off, didn't ya? > Several of you asked about it, but I expect the best way to handle it > is off-list. > .... > > Doc > From wpointon at earthlink.net Tue Jan 1 08:24:11 2002 From: wpointon at earthlink.net (bill pointon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Warp 4 Redux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <39D1C502-FEC3-11D5-883C-003065ED7126@earthlink.net> sorry -- im not awake yet On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 08:52 AM, bill pointon wrote: > i never would have accused you of that -- i am a very patient person -- > i have to be with the lousy slow From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Jan 1 15:15:59 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Warp 4 Redux Message-ID: <120.91b73bd.2963810f@aol.com> In a message dated 1/1/2002 8:55:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, wpointon@earthlink.net writes: > i never would have accused you of that -- i am a very patient person -- > i have to be with the lousy slow dialup internet access i am stuck > with -- if you are referring again to warp 4 server i would love to > download a copy but if you put it up for ftp you will have to leave it > up long enough for my max 20 meg/hour speed to get it all -- much > obliged for your consideration ---- billp > > On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 01:28 AM, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > Y'all thought I blew it off, didn't ya? > > Several of you asked about it, but I expect the best way to handle it > > is off-list. > > .... > > > > Doc > > > why not have some duplicate the CD and take it from there? ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020101/cc7d4f28/attachment.html From wpointon at earthlink.net Tue Jan 1 15:58:09 2002 From: wpointon at earthlink.net (bill pointon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Warp 4 Redux In-Reply-To: <120.91b73bd.2963810f@aol.com> Message-ID: i will volunteer to copy them if no one else has any kind of whiz bang cd duplicator and can do it quicker -- or we could make this faster with a tree algorithm -- i will dupe some and send them on to some others who will dupe them again for more interested parties -- how many interested parties do we have? ----- thanx - billp On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 04:15 PM, SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/1/2002 8:55:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, > wpointon@earthlink.net writes: > > > i never would have accused you of that -- i am a very patient person -- > i have to be with the lousy slow dialup internet access i am stuck > with -- if you are referring again to warp 4 server i would love to > download a copy but if you put it up for ftp you will have to leave it > up long enough for my max 20 meg/hour speed to get it all -- much > obliged for your consideration ---- billp > > On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 01:28 AM, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > ?Y'all thought I blew it off, didn't ya? > > ?Several of you asked about it, but I expect the best way to handle it > > is off-list. > > ?.... > > > > ????Doc > > > > > > why not have some duplicate the CD and take it from there? ... From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 1 17:13:04 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Warp 4 Redux In-Reply-To: <120.91b73bd.2963810f@aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jan 2002 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > > why not have some duplicate the CD and take it from there? ... Duplication of a given CD is trivial. Discussion of duplicating *copyrighted* CDs on a public mailing list isn't trivial at all, which was sort of my original point. Doc From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Tue Jan 1 18:48:00 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Warp 4 Redux References: Message-ID: <3C3258C0.5A0B0561@verizon.net> > on a public mailing list And one that get's archived permanently into one of the worlds most heavily used search engines. Might as well stand out in front of IBM and shout it out. Doc wrote: > > On Tue, 1 Jan 2002 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > > > > why not have some duplicate the CD and take it from there? ... > > Duplication of a given CD is trivial. > Discussion of duplicating *copyrighted* CDs on a public mailing list > isn't trivial at all, which was sort of my original point. > > Doc From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Jan 1 18:44:55 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Warp 4 Redux Message-ID: I have access to high speed cd burner and could make duplicates the minute I get my hands on the cd... In a message dated 1/1/2002 5:02:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, wpointon@earthlink.net writes: << i will volunteer to copy them if no one else has any kind of whiz bang cd duplicator and can do it quicker -- or we could make this faster with a tree algorithm -- i will dupe some and send them on to some others who will dupe them again for more interested parties -- how many interested parties do we have? ----- thanx - billp On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 04:15 PM, SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/1/2002 8:55:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, > wpointon@earthlink.net writes: > > > i never would have accused you of that -- i am a very patient person -- > i have to be with the lousy slow dialup internet access i am stuck > with -- if you are referring again to warp 4 server i would love to > download a copy but if you put it up for ftp you will have to leave it > up long enough for my max 20 meg/hour speed to get it all -- much > obliged for your consideration ---- billp > > On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 01:28 AM, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > ?Y'all thought I blew it off, didn't ya? > > ?Several of you asked about it, but I expect the best way to handle it > > is off-list. > > ?.... > > > > ????Doc > > > > > > why not have some duplicate the CD and take it from there? ... >> -- Kwanzaa is NOT a real holiday. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Jan 1 19:39:59 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Warp 4 Redux Message-ID: <38.20ea3e03.2963beef@aol.com> In a message dated 1/1/2002 7:55:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, vze2mnvr@verizon.net writes: << > on a public mailing list And one that get's archived permanently into one of the worlds most heavily used search engines. Might as well stand out in front of IBM and shout it out. >> calm down, no one has admitted to anything including myself. talk is just talk. nothing has even been done. -- From rschaefe at gcfn.org Tue Jan 1 09:51:59 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Kaypro PC? Message-ID: <006101c192dc$405d47c0$68469280@Y5F3Q8> I'm looking for info on one of these. I's some kind of XT clone, with an eight-bit passive backplane and an upgraded V20 on a CPU card. It runs MSDOS, and currently boots into dosshell. A little googling turns up numerous resumes containing Kaypro PC, and a number of old classiccmp posts regarding them, but no real info. kaypro.com seems to be down ATM. I'd especially like to know what the switch and pushbutton on the back of the CPU card do. IIRC it's not a reset button, but I might be mis-remembering. Bob From rhblakeman at kih.net Tue Jan 1 16:21:38 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Kaypro PC? In-Reply-To: <006101c192dc$405d47c0$68469280@Y5F3Q8> Message-ID: If it has the V20 then it was originally an 8088, if it has a V30 then it was an 8086. Anyway it's basically an XT clone with separated processor board and planar, as opposed to the normal XT types that had all on one mainboard. I've worked many of these in years gone by and there's nothing out of the ordinary on them, just use as you would any other XT clone. I too seem to remember the pushbooton on back being a reset on that machine. AFAIR the Kaypro site is long gone, I could swear Kaypro went under many moons ago. Matter of fact Premio bought the name in '99 and killed it off again this year - see the PCWORLD page at http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,50725,00.asp -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Robert Schaefer Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 9:52 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Kaypro PC? I'm looking for info on one of these. I's some kind of XT clone, with an eight-bit passive backplane and an upgraded V20 on a CPU card. It runs MSDOS, and currently boots into dosshell. A little googling turns up numerous resumes containing Kaypro PC, and a number of old classiccmp posts regarding them, but no real info. kaypro.com seems to be down ATM. I'd especially like to know what the switch and pushbutton on the back of the CPU card do. IIRC it's not a reset button, but I might be mis-remembering. Bob From mythtech at Mac.com Tue Jan 1 02:41:49 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find Message-ID: >Chris, I suggest that you do not have all of the relevant facts. The >wrench carries that name because Crescent Tools were the original >developer and manufacturer of it. That the name is used generically for >all adjustable wrenches of that design is a tribute to its popularity >and usefulness. Much the same as we speak of `xeroxing' copies. > >Centronics did not invent the Blue Ribbon connector. Amphenol did. >Centronics merely found a useful application that became the standard >parallel connector on printers (and on early computers - pre IBM). Not >quite the same accomplishment. I know the facts, and I know exactly why it carries that name (much like a Yankee Drill). But the arguments regarding the usage of terms was that you should call the item by its name, NOT by the common usage term. It becomes irrevlivant if the common name is that of the maker (in the case of Crescent), or of the company that popularized it (in the case of Centronics). The name is wrong either way. Under the "Crescent" logic, lets just call the "Centronics" connector an "Amphenol"... unless that will confuse the issue as they already have a number of connectors commonly refered to as "amp". I was really pointing out the irony that support for the "its not a Centronics" argument was itself using a term that is doing EXACTLY what the Centronics term is doing... miscalling an item because of a popular name. I guess that was lost in the typing... I'll try to sprinkly more emoticons in my text next time. -chris From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Jan 1 03:31:19 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find References: Message-ID: <017201c192a7$11e99900$8b37cd18@Smith.earthlink.net> > >Chris, I suggest that you do not have all of the relevant facts. The > >wrench carries that name because Crescent Tools were the original > >developer and manufacturer of it. That the name is used generically for > >all adjustable wrenches of that design is a tribute to its popularity > >and usefulness. Much the same as we speak of `xeroxing' copies. > > > >Centronics did not invent the Blue Ribbon connector. Amphenol did. > >Centronics merely found a useful application that became the standard > >parallel connector on printers (and on early computers - pre IBM). Not > >quite the same accomplishment. > > I know the facts, and I know exactly why it carries that name (much like > a Yankee Drill). But the arguments regarding the usage of terms was that > you should call the item by its name, NOT by the common usage term. It > becomes irrevlivant if the common name is that of the maker (in the case > of Crescent), or of the company that popularized it (in the case of > Centronics). The name is wrong either way. Under the "Crescent" logic, > lets just call the "Centronics" connector an "Amphenol"... unless that > will confuse the issue as they already have a number of connectors > commonly refered to as "amp". > This is a grey issue. Brand names often become generic. I bet when you want an "aspirin" you don't ask for a "pain reliever" or "analgesic", and, unless you are a polymer chemist, what would you call "styrofoam" other than "styrofoam"? Examples abound: Kleenex, Band-aid, Thermos (from King-Sealy Thermos), Frisbee, etc. The purpose of language is to communicate with precision, and sometimes the most precise way is to use the "common usage" term. You would sound pretty preposterous asking someone to toss you that "plastic flying disc." From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jan 1 09:38:24 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find References: Message-ID: <000a01c192da$59913960$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Careful, now ... I don't think Amphenol makes the AMP line of connectors, though it's possible I failed to notice that over the 25 years or so that I've had both an Amphenol catalog and an AMP catalog lying about. However, those connectors now often called "SCSI-1" connectors but previously in common usage on 5-button phones, etc, had a specific name because that's how, like KLEENEX, they were introduced. After they got enough market share that they needed second sources, they became quite common, and were less commonly associated, over the next few decades, with their original manufacturer's name for the product line, which was "Blue Ribbon." Though every major manufacturer made them at their peak market share, they were still only called "Blue Ribbon" connectors in the Amphenol catalog, and were primarily referred to by number elsewhere. I've seen them in sizes from 10 contacts to 60 contacts, though I doubt I've seen 'em all. However, in the interest of remaining at least marginally correct, I refer to the 36-pin printer port connector as "Centronics-type" unless it's attached to something that has the Centronics brand-name emblazoned on the front. IBM didn't use the exact same printer port specification as Centronics, yet their definition seems to have taken over the Centronics name. OTOH, if you refer to that connector as a 36-contact Blue Ribbon connector, you'll only get a blank stare, even from most fairly knowledgable fellows who started working in the industry by the mid '80's or later, when Amphenol's Blue Ribbon line was no longer the most common source of that particular connector. BTW, if you look back in history, the designation, e.g DB25P, DC37S, DD50P, etc, also originated with Amphenol, if memory serves, yet folks still haven't really come to use that rather precise set of definitions. They'd rather just say DB15 and let the other party sort out whether it's a 'B' shell with 15 populated contacts, whether it's actually an 'A' shell (e.g. AUI cable) with 15 contacts, or whether it's an 'E' shell with the 15 contacts, as used in a VGA connector. It's different with other sorts of connectors. If you ask a person under 35 years of age what an RS-232 connector is, he/she'll probably point you at a DE-9. If you look in the standard, however, you'll see lots of things that refer to a precise signal set based on the DB-25 connector. If you investigate other comm's standards you may see similar things, often based on "facts" clearly not in evidence in the applicable standard. My original point simply was that WE, the users/Collectors/afficionados of classic hardware, should, if anyone should, learn and use the precisely correct terminology in our communications, if for no reason other than to avoid the inevitable discussion of "what did you mean by ... ..." regardless of whether the majority of those for whom the communication is intended would probably understand what's meant. There are enough who won't that getting them to look up the definitions will benefit everyone. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" To: "Classic Computers" Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 1:41 AM Subject: Re: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find > >Chris, I suggest that you do not have all of the relevant facts. The > >wrench carries that name because Crescent Tools were the original > >developer and manufacturer of it. That the name is used generically for > >all adjustable wrenches of that design is a tribute to its popularity > >and usefulness. Much the same as we speak of `xeroxing' copies. > > > >Centronics did not invent the Blue Ribbon connector. Amphenol did. > >Centronics merely found a useful application that became the standard > >parallel connector on printers (and on early computers - pre IBM). Not > >quite the same accomplishment. > > I know the facts, and I know exactly why it carries that name (much like > a Yankee Drill). But the arguments regarding the usage of terms was that > you should call the item by its name, NOT by the common usage term. It > becomes irrevlivant if the common name is that of the maker (in the case > of Crescent), or of the company that popularized it (in the case of > Centronics). The name is wrong either way. Under the "Crescent" logic, > lets just call the "Centronics" connector an "Amphenol"... unless that > will confuse the issue as they already have a number of connectors > commonly refered to as "amp". > > I was really pointing out the irony that support for the "its not a > Centronics" argument was itself using a term that is doing EXACTLY what > the Centronics term is doing... miscalling an item because of a popular > name. > > I guess that was lost in the typing... I'll try to sprinkly more > emoticons in my text next time. > > -chris > > > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jan 1 12:16:48 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Chris wrote: > I know the facts, and I know exactly why it carries that name (much like It's a nice analogy, but only partially relevant for this particular issue. I don't know what they're teaching kids these days, but in the time period for which this list is relevant, mechanics did/do indeed refer to any adjustable wrench of that particular design as a "Crescent Wrench". They do NOT use the term "Crescent Wrench" to refer to any other style of adjustable wrench, and would consider THAT misuse as comparable to referring to a box-end wrench as a "socket". Calling the connector in question an "Amphenol connector" (regardless of who made that particular one) would, indeed be like using the common term "Crescent Wrench" when referring to an "adjustable wrench" (rather a vague, ambiguous name for it!) But calling it a "Centronics connector", particularly when dealing with sizes other than 36, would be like calling the same wrench a "Ford wrench". In the original post that was objected to, the writer referred to "Centronics Ports". THAT was wrong. If he were to have said "ports with 50 pin centronics connectors", then it would be a trivial misuse, and everyone would know what he meant (although some would DOUBT whether what he was seeing was correct -"are you sure they're 50s?"). BUT, a "Centronics PORT" means a parallel printer port as its primary and only meaning, and the ports in question were obviously not that. When it comes to wrenches and automotive analogies, I have a little experience - I started and ran the largest independent Honda car repair shop and wrote the book [literally] on Honda car repair. I'm upset at what half.com,ebay, want for a copy of it. One of the old classics of email "humor" mentions in passing a "Craftsman 10mm crescent wrench". Calling a wrench made by Craftsman a "Crescent" is what you are talking about. Since the dimensions of such wrenches were the LENGTH of the wrench, and Crescent didn't at that time label any of theirs in metric units, the "10mm" is just weird. In my garage, we had a box with a 150mm Crescent WANNABE, "rubber nails" (steel nails for nailing rubber weatherstripping), spotted paint (sold in a spray can by GM for repairing trunks), etc. for hazing the new parts runners. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From donm at cts.com Tue Jan 1 14:36:52 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Chris wrote: > >Chris, I suggest that you do not have all of the relevant facts. The > >wrench carries that name because Crescent Tools were the original > >developer and manufacturer of it. That the name is used generically for > >all adjustable wrenches of that design is a tribute to its popularity > >and usefulness. Much the same as we speak of `xeroxing' copies. > > > >Centronics did not invent the Blue Ribbon connector. Amphenol did. > >Centronics merely found a useful application that became the standard > >parallel connector on printers (and on early computers - pre IBM). Not > >quite the same accomplishment. > > I know the facts, and I know exactly why it carries that name (much like > a Yankee Drill). But the arguments regarding the usage of terms was that > you should call the item by its name, NOT by the common usage term. It > becomes irrevlivant if the common name is that of the maker (in the case > of Crescent), or of the company that popularized it (in the case of > Centronics). The name is wrong either way. Under the "Crescent" logic, > lets just call the "Centronics" connector an "Amphenol"... unless that > will confuse the issue as they already have a number of connectors > commonly refered to as "amp". AMP is a different company. - don > I was really pointing out the irony that support for the "its not a > Centronics" argument was itself using a term that is doing EXACTLY what > the Centronics term is doing... miscalling an item because of a popular > name. > > I guess that was lost in the typing... I'll try to sprinkly more > emoticons in my text next time. > > -chris > > > > From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Jan 1 05:13:50 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find References: Message-ID: <090901c192b5$657b4d80$0300a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" To: "Classic Computers" Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 4:45 PM Subject: Re: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find > >If WE use the wrong term > >amongst ourselves, we'll certainly never show others that there's benefit in > >calling it a crescent wrench when, to some folks, "the silver-colored > >thingie," would do. > > But, given the arguments that have been going on, you shouldn't call it a > Crescent wrench either. That is the name of the manufacturer of a > particular kind of wrench, and although generally accepted as meaning an > "adjustable wrench" is not any more technically correct than the > "Centronics" connector's name. FWIW, in OZ it's called a shifting spanner or just a "shifter", thought adjustable spanner or just adjustable would probably be recognised, but it's not the common term. Crescent wrench will get you a "what the #$%^ is a crescent wrench". In fact the term "wrench" is normally only used for the "Monkey Wrench" favoured by plumbers. What you call a 'Wrench" we call a "Spanner" generally. Except for a "socket" which I think is the same in both countries. > If you ask some mechanics for a crescent wrench, you might get locking > pliers... ones that are commonly called a "Vise Grip", which is ALSO > technically incorrect for the same reason Crescent is wrong. They get called "Multigrips" here generally, though "Visegrip" would probably be recognised. > But then, for the question of the century... if you strictly adhere to > calling an item by its name, and NOT by the commonly used term, which in > many cases is the manufacturer's or common usage name... In the USA perhaps. Not necessarily so around here. >what should you > call a Yo-Yo? (just seeing how many people know the answer to this one) Who knows? It's a YoYo here too. Cheers Geoff in Oz From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Tue Jan 1 10:47:43 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find References: <090901c192b5$657b4d80$0300a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: <3C31E82F.3C4BB99B@verizon.net> And full circle to the intra national regional differences and inter national differences in language I mentioned. And it has always been so. "There is nothing so constant as change". Read the english language as written in the 17th and 18th centuries, or even the written form of Shakespeare's or Chaucer's day. Geoff Roberts wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris" > To: "Classic Computers" > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 4:45 PM > Subject: Re: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find > > > >If WE use the wrong term > > >amongst ourselves, we'll certainly never show others that there's benefit > in > > >calling it a crescent wrench when, to some folks, "the silver-colored > > >thingie," would do. > > > > But, given the arguments that have been going on, you shouldn't call it a > > Crescent wrench either. That is the name of the manufacturer of a > > particular kind of wrench, and although generally accepted as meaning an > > "adjustable wrench" is not any more technically correct than the > > "Centronics" connector's name. > > FWIW, in OZ it's called a shifting spanner or just a "shifter", thought > adjustable spanner or just adjustable would probably be recognised, but it's > not the common term. > > Crescent wrench will get you a "what the #$%^ is a crescent wrench". > In fact the term "wrench" is normally only used for the "Monkey Wrench" > favoured by plumbers. > What you call a 'Wrench" we call a "Spanner" generally. > Except for a "socket" which I think is the same in both countries. > > > If you ask some mechanics for a crescent wrench, you might get locking > > pliers... ones that are commonly called a "Vise Grip", which is ALSO > > technically incorrect for the same reason Crescent is wrong. > > They get called "Multigrips" here generally, though "Visegrip" would > probably be recognised. > > > But then, for the question of the century... if you strictly adhere to > > calling an item by its name, and NOT by the commonly used term, which in > > many cases is the manufacturer's or common usage name... > > In the USA perhaps. Not necessarily so around here. > > >what should you > > call a Yo-Yo? (just seeing how many people know the answer to this one) > > Who knows? It's a YoYo here too. > > Cheers > > Geoff in Oz From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 1 15:10:45 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: from "Chris" at Jan 1, 2 01:15:59 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1300 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020101/d307cbf7/attachment.ksh From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jan 1 08:13:59 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Compaticard (was: Any AMIGA users? In-Reply-To: <00a401c19248$10fb74a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020101081116.022ae4b0@pc> At 10:11 PM 12/31/2001 +0000, Richard Erlacher wrote: >> The Amiga IS MFM! But it does not have WD style sector headers. >> It reads and writes a track at a time, and parses it in software. There >> are no gaps, synchronization issues between sectors, etc. >> >That's almost enough to make one wonder why they used MFM. Had they used >RLL, which requires no complicated, or even simple modulator, they'd have >had half-again the capacity. The Amiga did the MFM decoding using software and its custom chip - the blitter, I believe, which could perform somewhat complex logical operations. They no doubt did this to save on hardware, like Woz's disk controller. - John From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jan 1 09:51:37 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Compaticard (was: Any AMIGA users? References: <5.0.0.25.0.20020101081116.022ae4b0@pc> Message-ID: <001201c192dc$32248880$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Foust" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 7:13 AM Subject: Re: Compaticard (was: Any AMIGA users? > At 10:11 PM 12/31/2001 +0000, Richard Erlacher wrote: please note that I didn't write this, since I'm quite ignorant of AMIGA matters. > >> The Amiga IS MFM! But it does not have WD style sector headers. > >> It reads and writes a track at a time, and parses it in software. There > >> are no gaps, synchronization issues between sectors, etc. > >> > >That's almost enough to make one wonder why they used MFM. Had they used > >RLL, which requires no complicated, or even simple modulator, they'd have > >had half-again the capacity. > > The Amiga did the MFM decoding using software and its > custom chip - the blitter, I believe, which could perform > somewhat complex logical operations. They no doubt did this > to save on hardware, like Woz's disk controller. > The specific hardware required to do the RLL would have been an 'LS299 shift register, and little else. I expect the choice was made because it was considered adequate and considerably easier to use an essentially hard-sectored (single-sectored) scheme than to introduce the overhead, and resulting loss in capacity, imposed by multiple sectors. The early Tallgrass Technologies controllers, e.g. the one for S-100 used that strategy together with GCR. Once you decide to use a single sector and sort it out in software, the modulation scheme is quite arbitrary. > From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jan 1 10:06:52 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Compaticard (was: Any AMIGA users? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020101081116.022ae4b0@pc> References: <5.0.0.25.0.20020101081116.022ae4b0@pc> Message-ID: >The Amiga did the MFM decoding using software and its >custom chip - the blitter, I believe, which could perform >somewhat complex logical operations. They no doubt did this >to save on hardware, like Woz's disk controller. Isn't it Paula that handles the interface to me floppy drive? Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jan 1 09:56:09 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find References: <6f.2037431c.2962678c@aol.com> from "CLeyson@aol.com" at Dec 31, 1 08:14:52 pm <20020101035257.PDKD26587.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> <3C31DDC8.3A493375@verizon.net> Message-ID: <3C31DC19.5C2328D0@jetnet.ab.ca> Ian Koller wrote: > > > Practical experience and hard knocks school is your best teacher > > , I agree. Blow up, screw up some stuff as you learn as you go on is > > required. > > Does that also apply to Nuclear Weapons Engineers? > Yes ... providing to keep your 'Blow up's outdoors. They can't replace a new lab every other week.:) -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Tue Jan 1 10:03:20 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find References: <6f.2037431c.2962678c@aol.com> from "CLeyson@aol.com" at Dec 31, 1 08:14:52 pm <20020101035257.PDKD26587.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <3C31DDC8.3A493375@verizon.net> > Practical experience and hard knocks school is your best teacher > , I agree. Blow up, screw up some stuff as you learn as you go on is > required. Does that also apply to Nuclear Weapons Engineers? jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > > Subject: Re: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 02:08:07 +0000 (GMT) > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > > >Then I would suggest you're working with engineers who are not > > > > particularly knowledgable about practical electronics. If they're (say) > > > > mechanical engineers or civil engineers, then no problem. If they claim > > > > to tbe electronic engineers I'd probably dispute that claim. > > > > > > I agree, last year they couldn't even build a set of LED Christmas tree lights > > > without blowing them up, never heard of constant current drive !!! I'm not > > > > Do you own a suitably large LART? > > > > I must have told the story of the 362.8 ohm resistor. In case I haven't, > > it goes like this. > > > > I was working in a lab at a university over here when some final year > > engineering student asked me for a 362.8 ohm resistor 'as there are none > > in the drawer'. I said that I was not suprised, and asked him what on > > earth he needed it for. > > Glug! Almost sprayed water on my precious IBM keyboard.! > Even 180 Ohms is good enough driven directly from TTL. :-) > > > The answer? An LED current limiting resistor. Apparently he'd taken the > > Snip! > > > I've come to the conclusion that the best (electronic?) engineers and > > programmers are all essentially self-taught. It's probably much the same > > in all creative subjects. > > Practical experience and hard knocks school is your best teacher > , I agree. Blow up, screw up some stuff as you learn as you go on is > required. Straightening out those mistakes if you can discover is > excellent way to learn. > > > [...] > > > > > Agreed, I believe any so called engineer should have a practical "hands on" > > > experience in both hardware and software, after all if they don't understand > > > the > > > basics they are of little use. > > > I wonder if the HPIB spec (if it was ever published) specifies the > > jackscrew threads. > > Might be not existent. > > 4-40 is right for those kind. > > > -tony > > Cheers, > > Wizard From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jan 1 10:23:06 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find References: <6f.2037431c.2962678c@aol.com> from "CLeyson@aol.com" at Dec 31, 1 08:14:52 pm <20020101035257.PDKD26587.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> <3C31DDC8.3A493375@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000b01c192e0$9866fb60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Koller" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 9:03 AM Subject: Re: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find > > > > Practical experience and hard knocks school is your best teacher > > , I agree. Blow up, screw up some stuff as you learn as you go on is > > required. > > > Does that also apply to Nuclear Weapons Engineers? > Always has up to now ... > > jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > > > > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > > > Subject: Re: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find > > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 02:08:07 +0000 (GMT) > > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > > > > >Then I would suggest you're working with engineers who are not > > > > > particularly knowledgable about practical electronics. If they're (say) > > > > > mechanical engineers or civil engineers, then no problem. If they claim > > > > > to tbe electronic engineers I'd probably dispute that claim. > > > > > > > > I agree, last year they couldn't even build a set of LED Christmas tree lights > > > > without blowing them up, never heard of constant current drive !!! I'm not > > > > > > Do you own a suitably large LART? > > > > > > I must have told the story of the 362.8 ohm resistor. In case I haven't, > > > it goes like this. > > > > > > I was working in a lab at a university over here when some final year > > > engineering student asked me for a 362.8 ohm resistor 'as there are none > > > in the drawer'. I said that I was not suprised, and asked him what on > > > earth he needed it for. > > > > Glug! Almost sprayed water on my precious IBM keyboard.! > > Even 180 Ohms is good enough driven directly from TTL. :-) > Why on earth does that worry you? I routinely spray my keyboards with "409" and subsequently hose them off in the kitchen sink after thoroughly brushing them to get the glutch off. CocaCola, Beer, Eggnog, and other beverages, not to mention sauerkraut, mustard, and other substances you'd not normally apply to a keyboard have all been removed painlessly and without impact on proper function of the keyboard. Afterwards, I simply spray them with hot water and allow the keyboard to drip-dry. > > > > The answer? An LED current limiting resistor. Apparently he'd taken the > It's not a bad thing to calculate the ideal value before looking to see what you've got that's close. > > > > > > I've come to the conclusion that the best (electronic?) engineers and > > > programmers are all essentially self-taught. It's probably much the same > > > in all creative subjects. > > > > Practical experience and hard knocks school is your best teacher > > , I agree. Blow up, screw up some stuff as you learn as you go on is > > required. Straightening out those mistakes if you can discover is > > excellent way to learn. > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > Agreed, I believe any so called engineer should have a practical "hands on" > > > > experience in both hardware and software, after all if they don't understand > > > > the basics they are of little use. > > > > > I wonder if the HPIB spec (if it was ever published) specifies the > > > jackscrew threads. > > > > Might be not existent. > > > > 4-40 is right for those kind. > > > > > -tony > > > > Cheers, > > > > Wizard > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jan 1 12:47:59 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: <000b01c192e0$9866fb60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Practical experience and hard knocks school is your best teacher > > > , I agree. Blow up, screw up some stuff as you learn as you go on is > > > required. > > Does that also apply to Nuclear Weapons Engineers? > Always has up to now ... > Why on earth does that worry you? I routinely spray my keyboards with "409" > and subsequently hose them off in the kitchen sink after thoroughly brushing > them to get the glutch off. CocaCola, Beer, Eggnog, and other beverages, > not to mention sauerkraut, mustard, and other substances you'd not normally > apply to a keyboard have all been removed painlessly and without impact on > proper function of the keyboard. Afterwards, I simply spray them with hot > water and allow the keyboard to drip-dry. I do hope that you shut-down the system before doing so. From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Jan 1 10:48:58 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Being a long-time British/European rider, I gotta ask... > Was Amphenol *that* bad? No, not at all. The first series of Blue Ribbons (it is a whole family of connectors, not just the "Centronics" style. In fact, it is mostly just a catchy name, because of the blue plastic they use) did have some reliability problems, but they were corrected. I have not seen a new design (since 1960, anyway) with these older Blue Ribbons. Amphenol did make some really good connectors as well. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 1 16:46:31 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > > Being a long-time British/European rider, I gotta ask... > > Was Amphenol *that* bad? > > No, not at all. The first series of Blue Ribbons (it is a whole family of > connectors, not just the "Centronics" style. In fact, it is mostly just a > catchy name, because of the blue plastic they use) did have some > reliability problems, but they were corrected. I have not seen a new > design (since 1960, anyway) with these older Blue Ribbons. > > Amphenol did make some really good connectors as well. Oh, I know. But no self-respecting scooter tramp, or British auto enthusiast for that matter, can let a reference to Lucas go by. "It's the Law." Doc From cfandt at netsync.net Tue Jan 1 11:04:19 2002 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: <18e.141122d.29612cd9@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.1.20020101112427.009696b0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 09:52 PM 12/30/01 -0500, CLeyson@aol.com said something like: >Fred Cisin wrote >> In place of current accepted sloppy terminology, >> how many remember what they were called THEN? > >Most of the engineers I work with have never heard of Amphenol or Cannon, >let alone "blue range" or "red range" (popular Cannon connectors) Sigh . . . They obviously never got into building their own designs and/or never were of the tinkering/hobbyist or Amateur Radio types like more than a few of us are on the list. That I feel an important attribute of an engineer is being able to independently handle construction of a project beginning with a concept through to final debug. > >It's a classic chicken and egg thing. Ampenol connectors were adopted as >a "standard" connector for Centronics printer, IEEE-488 and SCSI interface, >but are often mis-named. As I don't have an Amphenol catalogue to hand, >I'm afraid I can't tell you what Amphenol's designation is for this connector. Their designation for this family of connectors was "Micro Ribbon", a.k.a. "57- Series" It's a denser version of their very good rack/panel connectors, the "Blue Ribbon" line which appeared in the late 40's. > Regards, Chris NNNN -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From allain at panix.com Tue Jan 1 11:13:56 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find References: Re: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) <3C30C29C.16789.AEE40B9@localhost> Message-ID: <005001c192e7$b2b82dc0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > which would be horrifying to him as he was then. What? Want to be with you on this. John A. From dittman at dittman.net Tue Jan 1 12:00:42 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jan 01, 2002 02:08:07 AM Message-ID: <200201011800.g01I0g627760@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > >Then I would suggest you're working with engineers who are not > > > particularly knowledgable about practical electronics. If they're (say) > > > mechanical engineers or civil engineers, then no problem. If they claim > > > to tbe electronic engineers I'd probably dispute that claim. > > > > I agree, last year they couldn't even build a set of LED Christmas tree lights > > without blowing them up, never heard of constant current drive !!! I'm not > > Do you own a suitably large LART? > > I must have told the story of the 362.8 ohm resistor. In case I haven't, > it goes like this. > > I was working in a lab at a university over here when some final year > engineering student asked me for a 362.8 ohm resistor 'as there are none > in the drawer'. I said that I was not suprised, and asked him what on > earth he needed it for. > > The answer? An LED current limiting resistor. Apparently he'd taken the > well-known formula R=(Vsource-Vforward)/Iforward (which I may add, he > couldn't derrive), stuck in his PSU voltage, the LED forward voltage and > typical current form the data sheet and calculated a resistor value. > > It took me a long time to convince him that a 390 ohm (which we did have) > would be fine. As would a 360 Ohm (I think I could have found one of > those). Or even a 330 Ohm. Heck, a 470 Ohm would have given some light > output, just a bit dimmer than the data sheet value. In our incoming test group one of the electrical engineers didn't know V=I*R. Some of the other electrical engineers didn't have a clear concept of how a transistor operates. I feel fortunate that our school's EE program went into the basics in depth and built from there. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Jan 1 13:01:00 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: References: <20020101035257.PDKD26587.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Dec 31, 1 10:58:19 pm Message-ID: <20020102000141.VZJZ8040.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Tony wrote: > > Glug! Almost sprayed water on my precious IBM keyboard.! > > Err, it's an IBM keyboard. It'll survive things like that :-) Not this time, I lost one or two and seen other keyboards that has conductive ink for both traces and contacts. Even that flimsy plastic IBM keyboard that came with original PS/1 is same design as heavy PS/2 keyboards except that things go together is held together by both top and bottom halves via snaps and two screws. That traces corroded when water got in, and had to take it apart to repair that. Kept dry and mop up spills instantly that keyboard I type on last forever. > But if you make such a mistake once, then you should learn from it and > not do the same thing n times in the future. That's the sort of mistake > that I object to. Hmmm... Mistakes is fewer if one make certain his knowledge is good by cross checking the info from more than one sources. And 'net is useful too. But knowledge you gained from school doesn't replace that practical experience, both goes together and lose that atittudes then you'll will do very well there in wild. :-) > > > I wonder if the HPIB spec (if it was ever published) specifies the > > > jackscrew threads. > > > > Might be not existent. > > > > 4-40 is right for those kind. > > What? For HPIB connectors? I don't think that's right. All the books I've > looked in specifies M3.5. And that's what I've used with no problems at > all for home-made jackposts (have you ever tried to buy them in the UK?). Sorry, I was thinking of this 4-40 for D-shell fasteners. Cheers, Wizard From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 1 15:13:57 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Dec 31, 1 10:18:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1309 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020101/0b61c595/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jan 1 18:02:51 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Mainly because people think it's just like a larger version of the DIY >electric drill. They don't bother to clamp the workpiece. They hand-hold >it, and when the drill bit 'grabs' (especially if they've not ground the >right cutting angles on it) then the workpiece spins round and removes >their fingers... What always got my attention was when someone would be using a table saw and it'd catch the piece of wood and shoot it back through the garage door 15-20 feet behind the operator. Nobody will ever have to tell me not to stand directly behind the piece I'm cutting ever again. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Tue Jan 1 18:19:45 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find References: Message-ID: <3C325221.B413F899@verizon.net> > Mainly because people think it's just like a larger version of the DIY > electric drill. > right cutting angles on it) then the workpiece spins round and removes > their fingers... They can rip off a scalp too if you get long hair wrapped up in them. Tony Duell wrote: > > > I quite agree, Tony. During my pre-senior highschool year summer > > vacation I was afforded the opportunity to work in the model shop of the > > local Westinghouse plant. During that summer, I learned to use an > > engine lathe, shaper, milling machine, and both gas and arc welding > > equipment. I do not mean to imply that I was - or even thought I was - > > a journeyman machinist after that exposure, but I certainly learned some > > Exactly. I don't expect mechanical engineers to be the world's best > machinists (Most of the skills needed for that come from a lifetime's > practice and experience). But I am not going to trust a mechanical > engineer who's never used a lathe. And I am certainly not going to trust > one who doesn't know what a lathe is, and what it's used for. > > > useful skills and a hell of a lot about manufacturability. I also > > learned that a drill press is one of the most subtly dangerous machines > > in a shop. Interest and curiousity are the major prerequisites for > > Mainly because people think it's just like a larger version of the DIY > electric drill. They don't bother to clamp the workpiece. They hand-hold > it, and when the drill bit 'grabs' (especially if they've not ground the > right cutting angles on it) then the workpiece spins round and removes > their fingers... > > -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 1 17:31:59 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: <20020101035257.PDKD26587.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Dec 31, 1 10:58:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020101/c74ec3af/attachment.ksh From ken at seefried.com Tue Jan 1 20:06:20 2002 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: SCO Open Desktop (Re: Tape drive needed) In-Reply-To: <200112301840.fBUIeST58830@ns2.ezwind.net> References: <200112301840.fBUIeST58830@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <20020102020620.389.qmail@mail.seefried.com> My first "real" job was heavily involved with SCO. We (SecureWare) wrote the C2 subsystem for SCO. To actually load this software, there should be a blue or pink card with a serial number on it. On December 29, Chad Fernandez wrote: > The other day I found a SCO Open Desktop 2.0.0 media kit, on Qic24 > tape. I don't have the correct drive...... I don't have any tape drive > experience, actually. > > Does anybody have an unneeded Qic24 SCSI tape drive? I checked Ebay and > I didn't see anything that I thought was what I needed. Pretty much any drive that reads 60MB DC600A tapes should be able to read these tapes, but you will need to find a supported controller. I remember using Wangtek drives & controllers. > This is going back into a very fuzzy memory...but does anyone know > if an Archive 2150S drive (QIC-150) will read QIC-24 tapes? Yup...a 2150S should read these tapes. I'm pretty sure the Adaptec 154x controllers are supported by the install software. Ken From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 1 15:05:17 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: Engieers (was: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: <125.990ac39.29629097@aol.com> from "CLeyson@aol.com" at Dec 31, 1 11:09:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1533 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020101/9f47aa21/attachment.ksh From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Tue Jan 1 15:03:30 2002 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:15:59 2005 Subject: VMS 6.1 S/W Kit Message-ID: <20020101.130341.26325.44099@wm3.wlv.juno.com> I just bought a VMS 6.1 media kit (I think): VMS 6.1 'Binaries and DOc disc' 'COnsolidated software distribution' (Jul 1994) 'Online documentation' (april 1994) SO, did I score, or did I blow $10? Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jan 1 15:12:32 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: VMS 6.1 S/W Kit In-Reply-To: VMS 6.1 S/W Kit (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) References: <20020101.130341.26325.44099@wm3.wlv.juno.com> Message-ID: <15410.9792.526151.121017@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 1, jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > I just bought a VMS 6.1 media kit (I think): > > VMS 6.1 'Binaries and DOc disc' > 'COnsolidated software distribution' (Jul 1994) > 'Online documentation' (april 1994) > > > SO, did I score, or did I blow $10? I'd say you scored...the CSD is very cool to have, even if 6.1 is a little old. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jan 1 15:40:30 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: VMS 6.1 S/W Kit In-Reply-To: <15410.9792.526151.121017@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <20020101.130341.26325.44099@wm3.wlv.juno.com> <15410.9792.526151.121017@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: >On January 1, jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: >> I just bought a VMS 6.1 media kit (I think): >> >> VMS 6.1 'Binaries and DOc disc' >> 'COnsolidated software distribution' (Jul 1994) >> 'Online documentation' (april 1994) >> >> >> SO, did I score, or did I blow $10? > > I'd say you scored...the CSD is very cool to have, even if 6.1 is a >little old. Not as old as my TK50 of 4.5 and installed 4.6 on my MVII Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From allain at panix.com Tue Jan 1 15:42:41 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: VMS 6.1 S/W Kit References: <20020101.130341.26325.44099@wm3.wlv.juno.com> Message-ID: <001101c1930d$3d97c8e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > VMS 6.1 'Binaries and DOc disc' > SO, did I score, or did I blow $10? Well, you can re-sell it here, so no blow. The two problems I'm aware of is that the CD's aren't 9660 or PC compatible, so you need a VAX. Also most DEC Software (post ?v5? anyway) is Keyed, so it isn't just "load and go". I don't yet know if you can use newer hobbyiest keys on older versions. John A. From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jan 1 15:47:35 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: VMS 6.1 S/W Kit In-Reply-To: <20020101.130341.26325.44099@wm3.wlv.juno.com> Message-ID: >I just bought a VMS 6.1 media kit (I think): > >VMS 6.1 'Binaries and DOc disc' >'COnsolidated software distribution' (Jul 1994) >'Online documentation' (april 1994) > > >SO, did I score, or did I blow $10? > >Jeff Score. While V7.3 is current, it's always good to have older distro's for stuff that isn't available on new ones. $10 for the OS AND Condist is a good deal! Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From wilby98 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 1 16:07:51 2002 From: wilby98 at yahoo.com (William S .) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: VMS 6.1 S/W Kit In-Reply-To: ; from healyzh@aracnet.com on Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 01:47:35PM -0800 References: <20020101.130341.26325.44099@wm3.wlv.juno.com> Message-ID: <20020101230751.A1716@xs4all.nl> Does anyone know if the TK50 VAX V7.3 OpenVMS Distribution is available yet? Bill Amsterdam, NL On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 01:47:35PM -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Score. While V7.3 is current, it's always good to have older distro's for > stuff that isn't available on new ones. $10 for the OS AND Condist is a > good deal! > From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jan 1 16:40:18 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: VMS 6.1 S/W Kit In-Reply-To: <20020101230751.A1716@xs4all.nl> References: ; from healyzh@aracnet.com on Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 01:47:35PM -0800 <20020101.130341.26325.44099@wm3.wlv.juno.com> Message-ID: >Does anyone know if the TK50 VAX V7.3 OpenVMS Distribution >is available yet? > >Bill >Amsterdam, NL I seem to remember that there won't be one. I think it has been discontinued do to a lack of TK50's and demand. The best answer would be contact Compaq and find out though. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jan 1 16:09:17 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: VMS 6.1 S/W Kit In-Reply-To: <001101c1930d$3d97c8e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <20020101.130341.26325.44099@wm3.wlv.juno.com> Message-ID: >just +ACI-load and go+ACI-. I don't yet know if you can use >newer hobbyiest keys on older versions. You can, they aren't version specific. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From wilby98 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 1 16:53:48 2002 From: wilby98 at yahoo.com (William S .) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: VMS 6.1 S/W Kit In-Reply-To: ; from healyzh@aracnet.com on Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 02:40:18PM -0800 References: ; <20020101.130341.26325.44099@wm3.wlv.juno.com> <20020101230751.A1716@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20020101235348.A4114@xs4all.nl> If one wanted to be "historically correct", which version would have been on a MicroVAX II during the time they were in production? How would you now get that version on a TK50 tape? Bill Amsterdam, NL On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 02:40:18PM -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >Does anyone know if the TK50 VAX V7.3 OpenVMS Distribution > >is available yet? > > > >Bill > >Amsterdam, NL > > I seem to remember that there won't be one. I think it has been > discontinued do to a lack of TK50's and demand. > > The best answer would be contact Compaq and find out though. > From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jan 1 17:21:15 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: VMS 6.1 S/W Kit In-Reply-To: <20020101235348.A4114@xs4all.nl> References: ; <20020101.130341.26325.44099@wm3.wlv.juno.com> <20020101230751.A1716@xs4all.nl> <20020101235348.A4114@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: >If one wanted to be "historically correct", which version >would have been on a MicroVAX II during the time they >were in production? How would you now get that version >on a TK50 tape? My MVII was in use, in a production environment, from 1987 until mid-1990 (when it was switched out for a different machine) and at the time is was pulled from service it had VMS 4.6 loaded on it. The TK50 distrobution of 4.5 that I have shows a copyright of 1986 on it's label, so I would think that either 4.5 or 4.6 would be the answer to your above question. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From allain at panix.com Tue Jan 1 12:34:12 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: Too much college? (was: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find References: <15408.43118.946001.168428@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3C30C29C.15494.AEE41CC@localhost> Message-ID: <000f01c192f2$e95cd280$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > ...Marconi, become the "inventor of Radio" which we > are now celebrating, despite the fact that Tesla won > a court decision ... One book I have (I think it was written in the 1930's, when the people who knew the history were Alive) suggested that Radio was Discovered rather than invented. Some people were working on well calibrated Telegraph equipment and noticed that they could get signals from a loop that wasn't physically connected to the recieving loop. This of course set of alot of peoples' curiosity going and led to directed experimentation and then the Science only much later. John A. From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jan 1 13:00:19 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: Too much college? (was: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Re: Too much college? (was: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find (John Allain) References: <15408.43118.946001.168428@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3C30C29C.15494.AEE41CC@localhost> <000f01c192f2$e95cd280$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <15410.1859.355233.237979@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 1, John Allain wrote: > > ...Marconi, become the "inventor of Radio" which we > > are now celebrating, despite the fact that Tesla won > > a court decision ... > > One book I have (I think it was written in the 1930's, when the > people who knew the history were Alive) suggested that Radio > was Discovered rather than invented. Some people were > working on well calibrated Telegraph equipment and noticed > that they could get signals from a loop that wasn't physically > connected to the recieving loop. This of course set of alot of > peoples' curiosity going and led to directed experimentation > and then the Science only much later. This is a very interesting piont...I think there's a pretty clear line between invention and discovering a phenomenon and then devising a way to control or take advantage of it. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 1 14:50:55 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer findu In-Reply-To: <008701c19246$c9f61c00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Dec 31, 1 09:54:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 862 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020101/dd2113f7/attachment.ksh From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Jan 1 10:05:04 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?) References: Message-ID: <3C31DE30.5070307@cnonline.net> Tothwolf wrote: > On Mon, 31 Dec 2001, Ron Hudson wrote: > > >> I am not sure of the age of the board but >> Adaptec seems to think it's not supportable >> any more... :^( >> >> Anybody have DOS ASPI drivers for the >> ADAPTEC AHA-1542CF?? > > > Adaptec still sells and supports this product. Have a look at their > website. > > -Toth perhaps i'ts just me... every time I get near to the actual download of the driver file, I get "Host not responding" errors. I can download other stuff. errrrrr! From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 1 17:15:09 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?) In-Reply-To: <3C31DE30.5070307@cnonline.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Ron Hudson wrote: > perhaps i'ts just me... every time I get near to the actual download of > the driver file, I get "Host not responding" errors. I can > download other stuff. errrrrr! Their FTP site is generally much easier to navigate that their website. ftp://ftp.adaptec.com/scsi/general/ Doc From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Tue Jan 1 10:26:37 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?) References: <3C309C9C.4020703@cnonline.net> <3C30B217.8A104B03@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3C31E33D.9BB5ED75@verizon.net> It's been a while, so I may not be remembering correctly, but I think PC Tools had a series of Adaptec ASPI drivers with it, probably to support the backup program ( to SCSI tape drives ). Ben Franchuk wrote: > > Ron Hudson wrote: > > > > --probably off topic... > > > > I am not sure of the age of the board but > > Adaptec seems to think it's not supportable > > any more... :^( > > > > Anybody have DOS ASPI drivers for the > > ADAPTEC AHA-1542CF?? > > > > Tis an ISA scsi card with floppy attach > > and I have it in a 486 machine > > > > ---------------------------------- > > The machine seems to be a 486dx in a "lunchbox" > > style case with color lcd. looks like a normal > > motherboard is inside.. > > > > goes by the name of PCIII, with no other markings > > as to MFG. > > > > Any one know anything about this? > > Don't look at me... I still have my 1542 in this PC here > and no drivers.I could use the 'dos' drivers to read a CDROM just in > case > 95 crashes and I need to reload windows. > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jan 1 10:23:57 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?) References: <3C309C9C.4020703@cnonline.net> <3C30B217.8A104B03@jetnet.ab.ca> <3C31E33D.9BB5ED75@verizon.net> Message-ID: <3C31E29D.FC8317D0@jetnet.ab.ca> Ian Koller wrote: > > It's been a while, so I may not be remembering correctly, > but I think PC Tools had a series of Adaptec ASPI drivers > with it, probably to support the backup program ( to SCSI > tape drives ). But all I want to do is read a CD rom from $#@! DOS! -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jan 1 12:23:44 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?) References: <3C309C9C.4020703@cnonline.net> <3C30B217.8A104B03@jetnet.ab.ca> <3C31E33D.9BB5ED75@verizon.net> <3C31E29D.FC8317D0@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <001f01c192f1$72560c20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It would have been more useful if their backup program had worked, however. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Franchuk" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: Re: Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?) > Ian Koller wrote: > > > > It's been a while, so I may not be remembering correctly, > > but I think PC Tools had a series of Adaptec ASPI drivers > > with it, probably to support the backup program ( to SCSI > > tape drives ). > > But all I want to do is read a CD rom from $#@! DOS! > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jan 1 11:22:23 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?) References: <3C309C9C.4020703@cnonline.net> <3C30B217.8A104B03@jetnet.ab.ca> <3C31E33D.9BB5ED75@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000d01c192e8$e063f640$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Why would anybody use PC-Tools-anything???? It's dangerous even to have it the car, let alone bringing it inside ... Why not simply use what ADAPTEC provides? There's nothing else that does the job better, though there are MANY driver sets that do it worse, notably the stuff from IOMEGA. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Koller" To: ; "Ben Franchuk" ; "Ron Hudson" Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 9:26 AM Subject: Re: Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?) > > It's been a while, so I may not be remembering correctly, > but I think PC Tools had a series of Adaptec ASPI drivers > with it, probably to support the backup program ( to SCSI > tape drives ). > > > > > Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > > Ron Hudson wrote: > > > > > > --probably off topic... > > > > > > I am not sure of the age of the board but > > > Adaptec seems to think it's not supportable > > > any more... :^( > > > > > > Anybody have DOS ASPI drivers for the > > > ADAPTEC AHA-1542CF?? > > > > > > Tis an ISA scsi card with floppy attach > > > and I have it in a 486 machine > > > > > > ---------------------------------- > > > The machine seems to be a 486dx in a "lunchbox" > > > style case with color lcd. looks like a normal > > > motherboard is inside.. > > > > > > goes by the name of PCIII, with no other markings > > > as to MFG. > > > > > > Any one know anything about this? > > > > Don't look at me... I still have my 1542 in this PC here > > and no drivers.I could use the 'dos' drivers to read a CDROM just in > > case > > 95 crashes and I need to reload windows. > > -- > > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > > From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Tue Jan 1 12:33:22 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?) References: <3C309C9C.4020703@cnonline.net> <3C30B217.8A104B03@jetnet.ab.ca> <3C31E33D.9BB5ED75@verizon.net> <000d01c192e8$e063f640$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3C3200F2.178BBE30@verizon.net> > But all I want to do is read a CD rom from $#@! DOS! But someone was having problems downloading these ASPI managers from Adaptec's site, so it's a second alternative source. Some might not have realized that if they have the PCTools program, they may already have these drivers, and just not have known it. > Why would anybody use PC-Tools-anything???? It's dangerous > even to have it the car, let alone bringing it inside ... Dick, I used that program for a long time. I never had any problems with it. I found it to be a useful suite of tools for disk and file management in the "DOS" days. > > Why not simply use what ADAPTEC provides? Those ASPI managers were provided by Adaptec. They were the "real deal". Licensed by Central Point Software to be included in the PC Tools package. Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Why not simply use what ADAPTEC provides? There's nothing else that does > the job better, though there are MANY driver sets that do it worse, notably > the stuff from IOMEGA. > > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Koller" > To: ; "Ben Franchuk" ; > "Ron Hudson" > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 9:26 AM > Subject: Re: Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?) > > > > It's been a while, so I may not be remembering correctly, > > but I think PC Tools had a series of Adaptec ASPI drivers > > with it, probably to support the backup program ( to SCSI > > tape drives ). > > > > > > > > > > Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > > > > Ron Hudson wrote: > > > > > > > > --probably off topic... > > > > > > > > I am not sure of the age of the board but > > > > Adaptec seems to think it's not supportable > > > > any more... :^( > > > > > > > > Anybody have DOS ASPI drivers for the > > > > ADAPTEC AHA-1542CF?? > > > > > > > > Tis an ISA scsi card with floppy attach > > > > and I have it in a 486 machine > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------- > > > > The machine seems to be a 486dx in a "lunchbox" > > > > style case with color lcd. looks like a normal > > > > motherboard is inside.. > > > > > > > > goes by the name of PCIII, with no other markings > > > > as to MFG. > > > > > > > > Any one know anything about this? > > > > > > Don't look at me... I still have my 1542 in this PC here > > > and no drivers.I could use the 'dos' drivers to read a CDROM just in > > > case > > > 95 crashes and I need to reload windows. > > > -- > > > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > > > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > > > > From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Tue Jan 1 18:31:17 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?) References: <3C309C9C.4020703@cnonline.net> <3C30B217.8A104B03@jetnet.ab.ca> <3C31E33D.9BB5ED75@verizon.net> <000d01c192e8$e063f640$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3C3200F2.178BBE30@verizon.net> <001201c19317$a3a64bc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3C3254D5.60B90360@verizon.net> Dick, That was a strange one. Now I understand the reference to it's being dangerous to even have in the car. Actually, I found many tape backup programs to be unsatisfactory, mostly because I was getting larger and larger tape drives faster than the backup software ( that I liked ) was supporting them. I like PC Tools for disk and file management. I haven't ever really liked any tape backup software, to the point that I hardly even like tape drives anymore, and would rather just backup a hard drive to another hard drive of equal capacity. Ian Richard Erlacher wrote: > > I gave a fellow a ride to the office once, because his wife needed his car, > since hers was in the shop. He had, in his briefcase, which he left in the > car, a copy of the then-current PC-Tools suite, that he'd bought that > morning at the computer store where I picked him up. At the moment we drove > into the lot, all the systems in the building went down and wouldn't run > again until I sent this fellow, together with my car, on an errand to fetch > some parts, after which the systems all came up and functioned nicely until > he returned, at which time the whole kit and caboodle crashed again. His > wife later picked up the copy of PC-Tools from him, and, when she left with > it, all the systems promptly came back to life and continued to operate > nominally. This was, BTW, before Windows9x. > > >From this, I conclude that it wasn't the car, it wasn't the briefcase, it > wasn't the guy, but it was that one item that apparently was the index. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Koller" > To: ; "Richard Erlacher" ; "Ben > Franchuk" > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 11:33 AM > Subject: Re: Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?) > > > > > > > > But all I want to do is read a CD rom from $#@! DOS! > > > > But someone was having problems downloading these ASPI > > managers from Adaptec's site, so it's a second alternative > > source. Some might not have realized that if they have the > > PCTools program, they may already have these drivers, and > > just not have known it. > > > > > Why would anybody use PC-Tools-anything???? It's dangerous > > > even to have it the car, let alone bringing it inside ... > > > > Dick, I used that program for a long time. I never had any > > problems with it. I found it to be a useful suite of tools > > for disk and file management in the "DOS" days. > > > > > > Why not simply use what ADAPTEC provides? > > > > Those ASPI managers were provided by Adaptec. They were the > > "real deal". Licensed by Central Point Software to be included > > in the PC Tools package. > > > > > > > > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Why not simply use what ADAPTEC provides? There's nothing else that > does > > > the job better, though there are MANY driver sets that do it worse, > notably > > > the stuff from IOMEGA. > > > > > > Dick > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Ian Koller" > > > To: ; "Ben Franchuk" > ; > > > "Ron Hudson" > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 9:26 AM > > > Subject: Re: Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?) > > > > > > > > It's been a while, so I may not be remembering correctly, > > > > but I think PC Tools had a series of Adaptec ASPI drivers > > > > with it, probably to support the backup program ( to SCSI > > > > tape drives ). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ron Hudson wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --probably off topic... > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure of the age of the board but > > > > > > Adaptec seems to think it's not supportable > > > > > > any more... :^( > > > > > > > > > > > > Anybody have DOS ASPI drivers for the > > > > > > ADAPTEC AHA-1542CF?? > > > > > > > > > > > > Tis an ISA scsi card with floppy attach > > > > > > and I have it in a 486 machine > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------- > > > > > > The machine seems to be a 486dx in a "lunchbox" > > > > > > style case with color lcd. looks like a normal > > > > > > motherboard is inside.. > > > > > > > > > > > > goes by the name of PCIII, with no other markings > > > > > > as to MFG. > > > > > > > > > > > > Any one know anything about this? > > > > > > > > > > Don't look at me... I still have my 1542 in this PC here > > > > > and no drivers.I could use the 'dos' drivers to read a CDROM just in > > > > > case > > > > > 95 crashes and I need to reload windows. > > > > > -- > > > > > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > > > > > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jan 1 12:59:19 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: PC-Tools (was: Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?) In-Reply-To: <000d01c192e8$e063f640$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Why would anybody use PC-Tools-anything???? It's dangerous even to have it > the car, let alone bringing it inside ... Don't bring it anywhere near MY car! Early versions seemed really neat. It was great to be able to have half a dozen separate text editing windows active. I installed it on the telephone/reception machine at my office. I could keep the phone message log active (big file, kept as reference), as well as process invoices, inquiries, and a few other tasks. Then I started to get some disk errors. It would "saw" for a while, but then it would continue without a message, therefore indicating [I assumed] that it had finally found the sector that it was looking for. But then one day I had to look up an old entry in the phone log. AARRRRGGGGHHH!!!!! There were big chunks missing from the file!!!!! It turns out that PC-Tools was VERY concerned that the DOS critical error handler ("Disk read error. Abort? Retry? Ignore?") would mess up their pretty displays. So they had hooked the interrupt vector and set it to always respond to any error with an "IGNORE"!!!!!!!) KEEPING THE DISPLAYS PRETTY WAS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE DATA INTEGRITY! I could not tolerate such treachery, and removed it. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jan 1 13:19:48 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: PC-Tools (was: Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?) In-Reply-To: PC-Tools (was: Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?) (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) References: <000d01c192e8$e063f640$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <15410.3028.704726.321044@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 1, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > KEEPING THE DISPLAYS PRETTY WAS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE DATA INTEGRITY! Wow, sounds like Windows! -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jan 1 13:45:06 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: PC-Tools (was: Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?) In-Reply-To: <15410.3028.704726.321044@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: > > KEEPING THE DISPLAYS PRETTY WAS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE DATA INTEGRITY! On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > Wow, sounds like Windows! It is pretty bad when switching to Windoze 3.00 (aka "UAE- Unexpected Application Error") is a major improvement in data integrity! According to Microsoft (MS Professional Developer's Conference 8/1991), getting rid of UAEs was the most important issue for development of Windows 3.10. Actually, getting rid of UAEs was trivial. They were no longer unexpected; therefore there were no more UAEs. That conference was also when MICROS~1 introduced the "flying windows logo". They thanked the developers for their "enthusiastic acceptance" of the new logo, in spite of the fact that the MAJORITY of the developers hated it, and referred to the new logo as the "DRYROT logo" (there were trailing pixels behind the flying window that were intended to represent motion, but looked more like the window is falling apart) The Calculator accessory in Win 3.10 and 3.11 is flawed. Start it up, and calculate the difference between 3.11 and 3.10 (3.11 - 3.10 = 0 ????) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From djenner at earthlink.net Tue Jan 1 13:58:53 2002 From: djenner at earthlink.net (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: PC-Tools (was: Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?) References: Message-ID: <3C3214FD.13B6EB0B@earthlink.net> Fred, What version are you describing? The last "really good" version I used was something like 4.22 or so (whichever the last subversion of version 4 was). After that, it went down hill fast. Dave "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Why would anybody use PC-Tools-anything???? It's dangerous even to have it > > the car, let alone bringing it inside ... > > Don't bring it anywhere near MY car! > > Early versions seemed really neat. > It was great to be able to have half a dozen separate text editing windows > active. I installed it on the telephone/reception machine at my office. > I could keep the phone message log active (big file, kept as reference), > as well as process invoices, inquiries, and a few other tasks. > > Then I started to get some disk errors. It would "saw" for a while, but > then it would continue without a message, therefore indicating [I assumed] > that it had finally found the sector that it was looking for. > > But then one day I had to look up an old entry in the phone > log. AARRRRGGGGHHH!!!!! There were big chunks missing from the > file!!!!! > > It turns out that PC-Tools was VERY concerned that the DOS critical error > handler ("Disk read error. Abort? Retry? Ignore?") would mess up their > pretty displays. So they had hooked the interrupt vector and set it to > always respond to any error with an "IGNORE"!!!!!!!) > > KEEPING THE DISPLAYS PRETTY WAS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE DATA INTEGRITY! > > I could not tolerate such treachery, and removed it. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com -- David C. Jenner djenner@earthlink.net From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jan 1 14:13:58 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: PC-Tools (was: Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?) In-Reply-To: <3C3214FD.13B6EB0B@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, David C. Jenner wrote: > What version are you describing? Sorry, I don't remember. And, to be fair, that particular inexcusable bit of idiocy could well be unique to some version. From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jan 1 14:44:03 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: PC-Tools (was: Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, David C. Jenner wrote: >> What version are you describing? > >Sorry, I don't remember. > >And, to be fair, that particular inexcusable bit of idiocy could well be >unique to some version. I recall that in the 1989-90 timeframe PC-Tools was quite popular, though I never used it myself. I liked to use QDOS for simple file and directly manipulation functions, though it broke on larger partitions. I don't recall the version numbers, but I don't remember hearing about problems until the later versions of PC-Tools. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 1 17:00:45 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?) In-Reply-To: <000d01c192e8$e063f640$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Why not simply use what ADAPTEC provides? There's nothing else that does > the job better, though there are MANY driver sets that do it worse, notably > the stuff from IOMEGA. Have to go with you on that one. One of my client businesses overrode my recommendation to junk his Iomega Backup software because he was familiar with it and likes the interface. Two months ago, his file server spit a disk, mulptiple head crashes, and he's still regenerating data. To the tune so far of 480 un-billable man-hours. And counting. Two of the tape media he was using were literally worn out (yes, again over my instructions as to rotation), and the Iomega software was writing data right through the bad spots, **With NO error output** I'll grant that without gross operator error, that one probably would not have occurred. But I'd have never dreamed that a data-protection program would write to bad media (you can SEE where that magnetic film was worn through in spots) without throwing some kind of warning. Bah! Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 1 16:41:52 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?) In-Reply-To: <3C31E33D.9BB5ED75@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote: > > It's been a while, so I may not be remembering correctly, > but I think PC Tools had a series of Adaptec ASPI drivers > with it, probably to support the backup program ( to SCSI > tape drives ). > For that matter, if it's a fairly recent version of DOS, the ASPI drivers from your Windows9x install floppy work just fine. Doc From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Jan 1 10:43:50 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: <000a01c192da$59913960$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: > Careful, now ... I don't think Amphenol makes the AMP line of connectors, > though it's possible I failed to notice that over the 25 years or so that > I've had both an Amphenol catalog and an AMP catalog lying about. They are indeed different companies. Amphenol used to be the American Phenolic Company, and AMP used to be Air-Marine Products, Inc.. > BTW, if you look back in history, the contacts + gender> designation, e.g DB25P, DC37S, DD50P, etc, also > originated with Amphenol, if memory serves, yet folks still haven't really > come to use that rather precise set of definitions. MIL-C-24308. (Should be required reading for this list, so we can end this constantly surfacing thread about D-shells). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 1 20:31:58 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: VMS 6.1 S/W Kit In-Reply-To: <20020101235348.A4114@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, William S . wrote: > If one wanted to be "historically correct", which version > would have been on a MicroVAX II during the time they > were in production? How would you now get that version > on a TK50 tape? I'd like to find the same for my MicroVAX II. In a couple months I'm going to be ready to bring it online again. I don't think it has been run since the mid '90s. I still need to find a network board and pair of 8mb memory boards tho. -Toth From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Jan 1 20:42:20 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Oh, I know. But no self-respecting scooter tramp, or British auto > enthusiast for that matter, can let a reference to Lucas go by. > "It's the Law." I have heard about the "love" people have towards Lucas. I have some old radar stuff they made for World War 2, and...ummm...I am not impressed... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Jan 1 21:23:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: Lucas electrics, was: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ON topic part: I'm still looking for a working PDP11/44 system to adopt, preferrably in the southwestern US somewhere, and it doen't have to be free, just 'reasonable'.. it must be bootable, however. On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > > Oh, I know. But no self-respecting scooter tramp, or British auto > > enthusiast for that matter, can let a reference to Lucas go by. > > "It's the Law." > > I have heard about the "love" people have towards Lucas. I have some old > radar stuff they made for World War 2, and...ummm...I am not impressed... > Having owned Jags, MGs, Triumphs, etc... I always appreciated the little bit of humour (yes, I know but it is English) that observed: "The reason most Englishmen like warm beer is because they all have Lucas refrigerators." Cheerz and Happy {(old_year+1)= current_year} where ever you are! John From at258 at osfn.org Tue Jan 1 22:33:11 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have not had a lot of problems with Lucas products. I do find people tend not to give them routine maintenance and expect 30 year old parts to perform like factory fresh items. Lucas ignition coils, for instance seem very long lasting. Their electronic ignition bits and fuel injection systems (NOT CAV diesel systems) are notoriously troublesome. On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > > Oh, I know. But no self-respecting scooter tramp, or British auto > > enthusiast for that matter, can let a reference to Lucas go by. > > "It's the Law." > > I have heard about the "love" people have towards Lucas. I have some old > radar stuff they made for World War 2, and...ummm...I am not impressed... > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Tue Jan 1 22:57:21 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: Lucas electrics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020102155518.023a92e8@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 10:23 PM 1/01/2002 -0500, John Lawson wrote: > Having owned Jags, MGs, Triumphs, etc... I always appreciated the >little bit of humour (yes, I know but it is English) that observed: > > > "The reason most Englishmen like warm beer is because they all have >Lucas refrigerators." Well we had an English Electric 'fridge which worked fine (and long, purchased in 1963 and still getting the beer cold). I guess English Electric must have been a large conglomerate with 'fridges being a minor sideline (high speed jet fighters and computers being other more "interesting" things they built). Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 1 21:04:47 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: <3C325221.B413F899@verizon.net> from "Ian Koller" at Jan 1, 2 07:19:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 534 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020102/2601f73f/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Tue Jan 1 21:26:51 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 30 Dec 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Do TELEPHONE people who have been using the larger connectors since > before Centronics Corp existed, call them "Centronics connectors"? I've always known them to be called Amphenol connectors in the telco world. So pick your favorite misnomer. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Jan 1 22:27:19 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sun, 30 Dec 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > Do TELEPHONE people who have been using the larger connectors since > > before Centronics Corp existed, call them "Centronics connectors"? > > I've always known them to be called Amphenol connectors in the telco > world. So pick your favorite misnomer. I've only heard them called Butterfly connectors. Any ideas where that name comes from? -- Pat From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Tue Jan 1 21:03:06 2002 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: WTB SGI Indy Message-ID: <01KCKHVR63B690NKMA@cc.usu.edu> R. P. Bell said: > Anybody got any good suggestions on where to go to get a nice SGI Indy, just > for playing around -- preferably cheap? Want to tell us where you are or define "cheap"? I thought I saw one at the local university surplus outlet a coupla weeks ago; don't recall the price, but I didn't take it home. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From ken at seefried.com Tue Jan 1 21:06:27 2002 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: SCO Install (was Tape Drive) In-Reply-To: <200112301840.fBUIeST58830@ns2.ezwind.net> References: <200112301840.fBUIeST58830@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <20020102030628.566.qmail@mail.seefried.com> My first "real" job was heavily involved with SCO. We (SecureWare) wrote the C2 subsystem for SCO (among other interesting things). BTW...To actually load this software, there should be a blue or pink card with a serial number on it. I don't know if the current free SCO license covers stuff this old. On December 29, Chad Fernandez wrote: > The other day I found a SCO Open Desktop 2.0.0 media kit, on Qic24 > tape. I don't have the correct drive...... I don't have any tape drive > experience, actually. > > Does anybody have an unneeded Qic24 SCSI tape drive? I checked Ebay and > I didn't see anything that I thought was what I needed. Pretty much any drive that reads 60MB DC600A tapes should be able to read these tapes, assuming it has a controller supported by the install program. I remember using Wangtek and Archive non-SCSI drives & controllers. > This is going back into a very fuzzy memory...but does anyone know > if an Archive 2150S drive (QIC-150) will read QIC-24 tapes? Yup...a 2150S (or 2060S, I suppose) should read these tapes, as will other SCSI drives that read DC600As. As I recall, the Adaptec 154x controllers are supported by the install software, among others. Ken From fernande at internet1.net Tue Jan 1 21:43:16 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: SCO Install (was Tape Drive) References: <200112301840.fBUIeST58830@ns2.ezwind.net> <20020102030628.566.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Message-ID: <3C3281D4.5BAB6D2F@internet1.net> It would have to be from Caldera now, wouldn't it? I looked at there site the other day, but I didn't see any free license info. Hopefully they still do it. They did awhile back, because I saw it, but I couldn't find it this time around. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Ken Seefried wrote: > BTW...To actually load this software, there should be a blue or pink card > with a serial number on it. I don't know if the current free SCO license > covers stuff this old. From fernande at internet1.net Tue Jan 1 21:43:20 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: SCO Open Desktop (Re: Tape drive needed) References: <200112301840.fBUIeST58830@ns2.ezwind.net> <20020102020620.389.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Message-ID: <3C3281D8.CB4040D7@internet1.net> Ken Seefried wrote: > > My first "real" job was heavily involved with SCO. We (SecureWare) wrote > the C2 subsystem for SCO. > > To actually load this software, there should be a blue or pink card with a > serial number on it. Mine is yellow. It has a serial number and activation key. > Pretty much any drive that reads 60MB DC600A tapes should be able to read > these tapes, but you will need to find a supported controller. I remember > using Wangtek drives & controllers. Yes, but I don't know even that much about tape drives. I've done a little research now, but I still don't know a lot. I plan on using SCSI, not Qic-02 or Qic-36. > > > This is going back into a very fuzzy memory...but does anyone know > > if an Archive 2150S drive (QIC-150) will read QIC-24 tapes? > > Yup...a 2150S should read these tapes. I'm pretty sure the Adaptec 154x > controllers are supported by the install software. Dave is looking for the drive. I'll be using an IBM card that was OEMed from Future Domain. I'll be installing Open Desktop on an IBM Model 80 that has a new planar by Reply Corporation. It's a 486 class board with Microchannel slots, so I can't use a 154x card. The Future Domain card is supported by Open Desktop...... I have a supported hardware guide :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From wpointon at earthlink.net Tue Jan 1 21:16:47 2002 From: wpointon at earthlink.net (bill pointon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: Warp 4 Redux In-Reply-To: <38.20ea3e03.2963beef@aol.com> Message-ID: <27AA2540-FF2F-11D5-883C-003065ED7126@earthlink.net> correct -- this is just discussion and speculation ------ we are all really just good drones ------- billp On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 08:39 PM, SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/1/2002 7:55:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, > vze2mnvr@verizon.net writes: > > << > on a public mailing list > > And one that get's archived permanently into one of the > worlds most heavily used search engines. Might as well > stand out in front of IBM and shout it out. >> > > calm down, no one has admitted to anything including myself. talk is > just > talk. nothing has even been done. > > -- > From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 1 21:48:58 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: Warp 4 Redux In-Reply-To: <38.20ea3e03.2963beef@aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jan 2002 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > calm down, no one has admitted to anything including myself. talk is just > talk. nothing has even been done. Nobody's geting excited. Some of us are a little more aware of current events, including the international "warez" crackdown that's still wrapping up. I dunno where you live, but in Texas, talk is just talk, only until some badge decides it's conspiracy to commit a crime. On a more personal note, if *you* had something *I* was interested in having/sharing/trading, and you asked that we not discuss it in public, I would probably think that respecting that request was simply to my advantage. As far as courtesy goes, it looks like there's no point in even going there. I'm sorry, folks. This was obviously a bad idea to start with. Doc From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 1 21:38:30 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020102033830.42575.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- William Donzelli wrote: > > ...the designation, > > e.g DB25P, DC37S, DD50P, etc, also originated with Amphenol... yet > > folks still haven't really come to use that rather precise set of > > definitions. > > MIL-C-24308. (Should be required reading for this list, so we can end > this constantly surfacing thread about D-shells). So are you going to be the one to post a link, or are you going to make everyone search for themselves? I did not know that this info was contained in a concise doc. I'm glad to hear it. I'm sure reading it will help me misuse the labels less often. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Jan 1 21:45:25 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: <20020102033830.42575.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > So are you going to be the one to post a link, or are you going to make > everyone search for themselves? Being a MIL standard, you will need to go to a (big) library to get it. For some reason, these handy things refuse to show up on the web. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From dittman at dittman.net Tue Jan 1 22:10:25 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Jan 01, 2002 10:45:25 PM Message-ID: <200201020410.g024APo29452@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > So are you going to be the one to post a link, or are you going to make > > everyone search for themselves? > > Being a MIL standard, you will need to go to a (big) library to get it. > For some reason, these handy things refuse to show up on the web. I used to have access to the complete MIL STD library. There's a MIL STD for toilet paper (including testing) and toothpicks, to name a couple. That's part of the cost of the high cost of military equipment. Certification and testing does not come without extra cost (and the smaller the purchased lot, the higher the per-item cost, so the oft-mentioned $600 hammer was maybe out of a lot of five or some hammers). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 1 21:51:13 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: Compaticard (was: Any AMIGA users? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020102035113.41396.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeff Hellige wrote: > >The Amiga did the MFM decoding using software and its > >custom chip - the blitter, I believe, which could perform > >somewhat complex logical operations. They no doubt did this > >to save on hardware, like Woz's disk controller. > > Isn't it Paula that handles the interface to me floppy drive? You are both right, but the full answer is more bizarre than that... Paula has a monster shift-register that imports or emits enough bits to fill a track of data without dropping bits or running dry (at the regular rotation speed which is why they chose to make their HD floppies spin at half the standard rotation rate - so old Paula chips could keep up and so they wouldn't have to make a new Paula). Effectively, for a read, you turn on the input circuit and set a timer and hose about 1.1 x the number of raw MFM bits in a track, header bits and all, into a CHIP RAM buffer. I think the CPU searches for the start of data (but it could be the Blitter) and then the next stage is all done by the blitter. With that RAW bitstream in CHIP RAM where everybody can get to it, and with knowing where in that buffer the start and end of the track are, the Blitter moves the stuff before the start of data in RAM to the end of the buffer, so it's all in order. I wish I could draw a picture, but ASCII art circles are tough. It's this messy because Paula doesn't care/know where the disk is when the read starts (or a write, for that matter, because every sector is re-written on a write). Once the buffer is in order, the Blitter runs a set of mini-terms on it to convert it from MFM into binary and the results are handed to the guy that requested them in the first place. Your program makes whatever changes to the data are necessary, then calls the trackdisk.device to reverse the process - the Blitter converts the binary data into an MFM stream, then Paula hoses about 10% of a track of header bits, then follows it with the data, ensuring that every bit on that track has just been set (with a little overlap for safety). One of the CIAs is also part of this process, but it's used to drive the positioner motor, check the diskchange bit, etc. All in all, it takes part of Paula, part of Agnus (the Blitter) and part of a CIA to drive the floppy drive on an Amiga - three custom chips (Denise does not take part, AFAIK). I guess Jay Miner decided that since most of this stuff was in there anyway (everything but the monster shift-register), why spring for an extra, dedicated FDC? It's not like the Mac or several other computers of the era had an off-the-shelf FDC (compare the C= 1541 with the C=1581, among other examples). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Tue Jan 1 22:11:57 2002 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:00 2005 Subject: International Extensions Message-ID: <20020101.201206.1306.46300@wm1.wlv.juno.com> ..ch - Switzerland ..ru - Rumania ??? <<< RUssia ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Tue Jan 1 22:18:54 2002 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: International Extensions Message-ID: <20020101.201857.1306.46323@wm1.wlv.juno.com> Oh yeah-- I almos' forgot: ..cx - Christmas Island ..tw - Republic of China ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 1 23:08:54 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: International Extensions In-Reply-To: <20020101.201857.1306.46323@wm1.wlv.juno.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jan 2002 jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > > Oh yeah-- I almos' forgot: > > ..cx - Christmas Island > ..tw - Republic of China > didn't a bunch of countries sell their extensions? One of the guys I know has an email address of @something.st.... Doc > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. > From ernestls at attbi.com Tue Jan 1 23:00:24 2002 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: Royal Tenenbaums - Vintage PCs In-Reply-To: <001e01c190fc$7b610a00$8b37cd18@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Wayne M. Smith > Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 10:38 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Royal Tenenbaums - Vintage PCs > > > Just got back from seeing the Royal Tenenbaums. There are a number of > scenes that take place in Chas Tenenbaum's (Ben Stiller) office where he > still has the computer he used 22 yrs. before (1978) as a young > financial whiz. It appears to be a Zenith Z-110 and CRT attaced to - > get this - an Apple 5 1/4" external floppy drive! While at least > temporally close, the configuration isn't. Hey Sellam, you were their technical adviser on this vintage PC, right? Why did you recommend that silly setup to them? Just kiddin'. E. From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Tue Jan 1 23:08:38 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: NEXT Color Printer find Message-ID: <20020102051044.BXVV5773.imf06bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Richard Erlacher > Sadly, if we allow the language to degenerate in the direction in which it's > been "progressing" over the past three decades, we'll reach a point where > all our words are of a single syllable and only the inflections will signify > meaning. That's back to pre-Neanderthal communication, isn't it? > > 't ^^ > seems as though everyone wants to conceal the weaknesses in their own > knowledge (and > vocabluarly) by allowing others to fill in the blanks. ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Unfortunately, the point at which we've now arrived is one where there are > more blanks than words. This isn't > irreprarable, is it? ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Dude. Get a spell-checker. Or learn to spell. Especially when composing messages concerning the deterioration of American English. Glen 0/0 . From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 1 23:48:11 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > I have not had a lot of problems with Lucas products. I do find people > tend not to give them routine maintenance and expect 30 year old parts > to perform like factory fresh items. Lucas ignition coils, for instance > seem very long lasting. Their electronic ignition bits and fuel > injection systems (NOT CAV diesel systems) are notoriously troublesome. And their rectifiers and their voltage regulators and their generator diodes and their headlight/taillight/signal bulb sockets.... I can't speak to anything but Lucas automotive & motorcycle components. But I've owned a '69 Triumph Tiger, a mostly-'65 Bonnie, a '62 Norton Atlas (with a 750 Commando engine stuck in), and a '72 MGB. The MG was only 4 years old, and the Atlas had just been restored when I got it, with all new Lucas parts. So I can say with a fair amount of conviction and authority: Lucas Ltd. sucks. http://members.tripod.com/~tcotrel/lucas.html Doc From UberTechnoid at Home.com Tue Jan 1 23:52:48 2002 From: UberTechnoid at Home.com (UberTechnoid@Home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: Lucas electrics In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020102155518.023a92e8@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <20020102055344.MTV21559.femail45.sdc1.sfba.home.com@BENCHBOX> Why don't the British make a television set? Drum Roll....................... They can't figure out how to make it leak oil Apologies to all you Brits out there. Just in fun you know. Oh, and Canada. Don't get me started on Canada. LOL Regards and a Happy New Year, Jeff In <4.3.2.7.2.20020102155518.023a92e8@kerberos.davies.net.au>, on 01/02/02 at 03:57 PM, Huw Davies said: >At 10:23 PM 1/01/2002 -0500, John Lawson wrote: >> Having owned Jags, MGs, Triumphs, etc... I always appreciated the >>little bit of humour (yes, I know but it is English) that observed: >> >> >> "The reason most Englishmen like warm beer is because they all have >>Lucas refrigerators." >Well we had an English Electric 'fridge which worked fine (and long, >purchased in 1963 and still getting the beer cold). I guess English >Electric must have been a large conglomerate with 'fridges being a minor >sideline (high speed jet fighters and computers being other more >"interesting" things they built). >Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au > | "If God had wanted soccer played in the > | air, the sky would be painted green" -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley Asheville, NC USA 828-6984887 UberTechnoid@Home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From montym at swbell.net Wed Jan 2 00:14:50 2002 From: montym at swbell.net (Monty McGraw) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4041 GPIB controller Message-ID: <000601c19354$c9bfa300$6801a8c0@dsl.hstntx.swbell.net> Just ran across your posting on the Tek 4041. I've got both the Operators and Basic Programming Manuals for the 4041 and two of the computers with tapes! I ran across the same problem - no 4041 keyboard. You didn't mention whether you have any of the option ROMs in your 4041. They are in a pullout tray behind a snap in brown panel below the front keypad (use a coin in the slot in the top of the panel). If you have the Program Development ROMs you will be able to write 4041 BASIC programs - otherwise your machine will only execute 4041 programs from tape :( Since you say you've been able to type some commands on your keyboard converter - I would say you might have the Program Development ROMs. I've got the full set Program Development v2.1 #1 and #2, 4041 Graphics, 4041 Plotting, 4041 Signal Processing and the 4041 Utility ROM. Here are some control key sequences (listed as RS232 control keys) to try: Control-A Autonumber Control-B Break Control-C Abort Control-D followed by 1-9,0 User Defined Functions 11-20 Control-E or Backspace Rubout Control-F followed by 1-9,0 User Defined Functions 1-10 Control-H Rubout Control-I or Tab Horizontal tab Control-K Kill to end of line Control-N Recall Next Control-O Insert Control-P Recall Previous Control-Q Continue 4041 output Control-R Recall Line Control-S Stop 4041 output Control-T Step Control-U Clear Control-V Autoload Control-W Move cursor to beginning of line Control-X Delete line Control-\ Move cursor left Control-] Move cursor right Control-^ "Meta"-prefix followed by C CONTINUE followed by L LIST followed by R RUN followed by other chars ignored ESCAPE Suppress immediate execution of the following control character The 4041 BASIC is a lot like 4050 series BASIC, but it has added commands for tape directories, GPIB, and uses a Stream specification format for devices. My experience and 4041 Operators Manual says that RS232 must be configured before it becomes operational. Their recommendation is to create a file that is automatically loaded and run first on a tape when you press the AutoLoad button on the keypad. The Tek System Verification tape actually prompts you "TERMINAL CONFIG(1-YES,2-NO)" at the beginning and allows you to key in RS232 parameters which are then saved to the Verification Tape. Using your "keyboard" try the following commands: SET DRIVER "COMM(BAU=2400,BIT=7,PAR=ODD):" SET CONSOLE "COMM(CON=YES):" If you have two serial ports on your 4041 you may have to add a zero device number to each of the lines (COMM0 instead of COMM). Permitted COMM parameters and ranges: BAUd 75,150,300,600,1200,2400,4800 default 2400 IBaud any integer from 2 to 9600 if 0, use the BAUd parameter BIT 5,6,7,8,9 default 8, includes parity if used (BIT=5 has no parity, BIT=9 must include parity) PARity NO,ODD,EVEn,HIGh,LOW default NO STOp 1 or 2 default 2, for BIT=5 and STOp=2 uses 1.5 stop bits FLAgging NO,INPut,OUTput,BIDirectional, default OUTput MODem,AMOdem,EMOdem EDit RASter,STOrage,402,ANSi,850 default RASter FORmat ASCii,ITEm default ASCii. ITEm allows full 8bit codes TYPe-ahead =>100 default 100. max 32K DS OFF,ON default ON. Data Set Ready output line CTS OFF,ON default ON. Clear to Send output line DCD OFF,ON default ON. Data Carrier Detect output line ERR LOG,REPort default REP. errors displayed immediately ECHO YES,NO default YES CONtrol YES,NO default YES CR CR,CRLf,LFCr default CRLf LF LF,CRLf,LFCr default CRLf For the BASIC OPEN command, from my programmers reference guide: OPEN #logical unit: stream spec [,string var] ex: 1020 OPEN #1: "TAPE: FILEB (OPEN=UPDATE)",LU1$ Logical Unit 1 is designated as the tape file FileB, to be updated. LU1$ is given the entire stream spec string. Here is an input from GPIB device example: INPUT #"GPIB(PRI=21):": Var The numeric value Var is read from device 21 on GPIB I found GET in the full Programmers Reference book - it issues a GPIB Group Execute Trigger command. Syntax: GET[(numexp[,numexp]...)] Bus Traffic: [ATN UNL] [ATN Listen-Address-1] [{ATN Listen-Address-2}...] ATN 8 Hope this helps, Monty McGraw Spring TX Tek 4041,4052,4054,4631,4662,4957... :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020102/2d5a123b/attachment.html From mikem at open.com.au Wed Jan 2 01:17:14 2002 From: mikem at open.com.au (Mike McCauley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4041 GPIB controller In-Reply-To: <000601c19354$c9bfa300$6801a8c0@dsl.hstntx.swbell.net> References: <000601c19354$c9bfa300$6801a8c0@dsl.hstntx.swbell.net> Message-ID: <200201020717.g027HEl03957@oscar.open.com.au> Hi Monty, On Wed, 2 Jan 2002 17:14, Monty McGraw wrote: > Just ran across your posting on the Tek 4041. Cheers! > > I've got both the Operators and Basic Programming Manuals for the 4041 and > two of the computers with tapes! Cool. I have manuals now, but no tapes yet. > > I ran across the same problem - no 4041 keyboard. I hear they are very rare, but Im sure Ive seen one somewhere in a computer auction some time back. Perhaps some other Tek computers used the same keyboard? Certainly the plug is a common Tek type. > > You didn't mention whether you have any of the option ROMs in your 4041. > They are in a pullout tray behind a snap in brown panel below the front > keypad (use a coin in the slot in the top of the panel). If you have the > Program Development ROMs you will be able to write 4041 BASIC programs - > otherwise your machine will only execute 4041 programs from tape :( Yes, it has the Program Development ROMs, and I can enter and execute little basic progs. > > Since you say you've been able to type some commands on your keyboard > converter - I would say you might have the Program Development ROMs. I've > got the full set Program Development v2.1 #1 and #2, 4041 Graphics, 4041 > Plotting, 4041 Signal Processing and the 4041 Utility ROM. Ooooooohhhhh! > > Here are some control key sequences (listed as RS232 control keys) to try: > > Control-A Autonumber > Control-B Break > Control-C Abort > Control-D followed by 1-9,0 User Defined Functions 11-20 > Control-E or Backspace Rubout > Control-F followed by 1-9,0 User Defined Functions 1-10 > Control-H Rubout > Control-I or Tab Horizontal tab > Control-K Kill to end of line > Control-N Recall Next > Control-O Insert > Control-P Recall Previous > Control-Q Continue 4041 output > Control-R Recall Line > Control-S Stop 4041 output > Control-T Step > Control-U Clear > Control-V Autoload > Control-W Move cursor to beginning of line > Control-X Delete line > Control-\ Move cursor left > Control-] Move cursor right > Control-^ "Meta"-prefix > followed by C CONTINUE > followed by L LIST > followed by R RUN > followed by other chars ignored > ESCAPE Suppress immediate execution of the > following control character > > The 4041 BASIC is a lot like 4050 series BASIC, but it has added commands > for tape directories, GPIB, and uses a Stream specification format for > devices. > > My experience and 4041 Operators Manual says that RS232 must be configured > before it becomes operational. Their recommendation is to create a file > that is automatically loaded and run first on a tape when you press the > AutoLoad button on the keypad. Yes, I understand there was a tape that originally came with a 4041 that did just that. > > The Tek System Verification tape actually prompts you "TERMINAL > CONFIG(1-YES,2-NO)" at the beginning and allows you to key in RS232 > parameters which are then saved to the Verification Tape. > > Using your "keyboard" try the following commands: > > > SET DRIVER "COMM(BAU=2400,BIT=7,PAR=ODD):" > SET CONSOLE "COMM(CON=YES):" > > If you have two serial ports on your 4041 you may have to add a zero device > number to each of the lines (COMM0 instead of COMM). > > Permitted COMM parameters and ranges: > > BAUd 75,150,300,600,1200,2400,4800 default 2400 > IBaud any integer from 2 to 9600 if 0, use the BAUd parameter > BIT 5,6,7,8,9 default 8, includes parity if used > (BIT=5 has no parity, BIT=9 > must include parity) PARity NO,ODD,EVEn,HIGh,LOW default NO > STOp 1 or 2 default 2, for BIT=5 and STOp=2 > uses 1.5 stop bits FLAgging NO,INPut,OUTput,BIDirectional, default OUTput > MODem,AMOdem,EMOdem > EDit RASter,STOrage,402,ANSi,850 default RASter > FORmat ASCii,ITEm default ASCii. ITEm allows full > 8bit codes TYPe-ahead =>100 default 100. max 32K > DS OFF,ON default ON. Data Set Ready output > line CTS OFF,ON default ON. Clear to Send > output line DCD OFF,ON default ON. Data > Carrier Detect output line ERR LOG,REPort default > REP. errors displayed immediately ECHO YES,NO > default YES > CONtrol YES,NO default YES > CR CR,CRLf,LFCr default CRLf > LF LF,CRLf,LFCr default CRLf > > For the BASIC OPEN command, from my programmers reference guide: > > OPEN #logical unit: stream spec [,string var] > > ex: 1020 OPEN #1: "TAPE: FILEB (OPEN=UPDATE)",LU1$ > > Logical Unit 1 is designated as the tape file FileB, to be > updated. LU1$ is given the entire stream spec string. > > Here is an input from GPIB device example: > > INPUT #"GPIB(PRI=21):": Var > > The numeric value Var is read from device 21 on GPIB > > I found GET in the full Programmers Reference book - it issues a GPIB Group > Execute Trigger command. > > Syntax: GET[(numexp[,numexp]...)] > > Bus Traffic: > [ATN UNL] > [ATN Listen-Address-1] > [{ATN Listen-Address-2}...] > ATN 8 > > Hope this helps, Thanks for your kind efforts. I hope to get this sucker working soon. trying to get DC-100 tapes at the moment. Cheers. From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 2 02:13:49 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Dec 2001, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > I could have sworn that the regular single-pair telephone connector is > RJ11, and the two-pair/two-line one is RJ14. Correct. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From GOOI at oce.nl Wed Jan 2 02:03:21 2002 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: backdoor account for Micro/RSX ? Message-ID: Hi all. First of all, best wishes and good health for 2002! During the holidays I had a look at my 11/53. It boots fine, this is what appears on the VT102. 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 DU0 Micro/RSX Micro/RSX system startup procedure Copyright (C) 1986 by .. Time and date: 13:44 31-dec-01 Startup will take between one to three minutes to complete. SFD -- Device not variable speed multiplexer $; $; Installing Software via Command File LB:[VGS5000MC]VGS5000.CMD $; Task "TT0 " terminated Odd addrfess or other trap four R0=000000 R1=100076 R2=000000 R3=040724 R5=000000 SP=121222 PC=123002 PS=170011 $; $; Installing Software via Command File LB:[EDP]EDP.CMD $; 31-DEC-01 13:45 From MICROD::TT0: to ALL: SYSTEM READY FOR LOGIN $ $ $ Have a Good Afternoon 31-DEC-01 13:45 TT0: logged off MICROD $ So, I guess, this looks good. I do not have any experience with RSX or Micro/RSX. At the $ prompt MCR accepts only "login", "hello", and "help". Now, I vaguely remember from this list that when you enter login, the account is either "master" and the password is "system" or vice versa. Neither combination is accepted. Is there a way to get in, or remove the account file? Or should I try to load an other OS as I want to add a DEQNA? - Henk. From bqt at update.uu.se Wed Jan 2 02:48:37 2002 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: backdoor account for Micro/RSX ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Gooijen H wrote: [...] > So, I guess, this looks good. > I do not have any experience with RSX or Micro/RSX. > At the $ prompt MCR accepts only "login", "hello", and "help". > Now, I vaguely remember from this list that when you enter > login, the account is either "master" and the password is "system" > or vice versa. Neither combination is accepted. That will only work if they never changed the password of the system account. Sensible people change that first of all. > Is there a way to get in, or remove the account file? Yes. When asked for the time, press ^Z. That will leave you logged in on the system at the beginning of the boot procedure. You should run ACNT (RUN $ACNT) and change the password of a good account to something you know, and then boot again, or manually enter the @[x,y]SYSTARTUP.CMD to let the boot script run through. > Or should I try to load an other OS as I want to adda DEQNA? DEQNAs can be used under RSX. Just add DECnet. :-) But sure, you could run 2.11BSD as well. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From tih at kpnQwest.no Wed Jan 2 03:13:06 2002 From: tih at kpnQwest.no (Tom Ivar Helbekkmo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: *DING* Unibus addressing - KZQSA SCSI adapter In-Reply-To: (Johnny Billquist's message of "Sat, 29 Dec 2001 14:18:03 +0100 (CET)") References: Message-ID: <86y9jh86al.fsf@athene.i.eunet.no> Johnny Billquist writes: > I'm sure someone have the ruleset available online and can post an > URL. :-) Well, for a NetBSD system with package sources installed, here's one: :-) -tih -- Puritanism -- the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 1 21:23:52 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: Gears (was Re: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020102032352.2994.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > ... I learned to use an engine lathe, shaper, milling machine... > > ...I am certainly not going to trust one who doesn't know what a lathe > is, and what it's used for. The topic of machining make me ask if anyone here can tell me how to measure a gear to shop for a replacement. About all I know is that it has 14 teeth and it approximately 0.125" in diameter and length. It is one of the two smallest gears in a Commodore 1520 plotter - this particular one fits on the shaft that when rotated, causes the paper to move up and down past the pens. There is another of the same size that is the smallest in the chain to move the pens from side to side. Both of mine are cracked parallel to the axis and do not grip their shafts tightly enough for reliable movement (the paper stalls vertically and the pens don't meet the pen-change finger with enough force to rotate the pen carriage). I would love to buy a small bag of replacements (I have this 1520 and an Atari with an identical mechanism) I know from other discussions that this part is the weak link and breaks under stress eventually, so with two plotters, I'd be happy to have 4 gears and at least 8 spares. If I have to buy a minimum order from some place, so be it. I can always make them available to others to spread out the costs. What I don't know how to do is what to measure so I can see who might have a replacement. I am not an ME and have had only little experience with gears (beyond basic modelling in my one and only FORTRAN class). I know they have parameters like pitch etc., but I'm just not sure what numbers are the critical ones for ordering a replacement. Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 1 21:56:13 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: Gears (was Re: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find) In-Reply-To: <20020102032352.2994.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jan 1, 2 07:23:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2325 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020102/5d7d4cec/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jan 1 18:56:51 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: SUN monitor cables In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <02Jan2.061824est.119042@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Someone the other day made reference to old-style and late-model SUN 13w3 monitor cables. What's the difference between the two? Jeff -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amiga 3000, Cyberstorm MkII 060/50, GVP Spectrum, Xsurf ethernet, Amiga OS 3.9, 4GB Quantum Fireball, HD floppy, 36MB FastRAM http://www.cchaven.com From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Jan 2 06:33:05 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225C6D@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > Oh, I know. But no self-respecting scooter tramp, or British auto > > enthusiast for that matter, can let a reference to Lucas go by. > > "It's the Law." > > I have heard about the "love" people have towards Lucas. I have some old > radar stuff they made for World War 2, and...ummm...I am not impressed... How's the joke go? Why do the Brits drink their beer warm? Lucas Refrigerators.... Then, there's Lucas, Prince of Darkness... Tony? -dq From als at thangorodrim.de Wed Jan 2 07:31:49 2002 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: <3C31DDC8.3A493375@verizon.net> References: <6f.2037431c.2962678c@aol.com> <20020101035257.PDKD26587.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> <3C31DDC8.3A493375@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20020102133149.GA16864@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 11:03:20AM -0500, Ian Koller wrote: > > > > Practical experience and hard knocks school is your best teacher > > , I agree. Blow up, screw up some stuff as you learn as you go on is > > required. > > > Does that also apply to Nuclear Weapons Engineers? Until a very short time ago: yes. Most final testing consisted of getting the latest design to go and check if it worked as designed (and sometimes it worked much better ... giving a nasty surprise). Regards, Alex. -- q: If you were young again, would you start writing TeX again or would you use Microsoft Word, or another word processor? a: I hope to die before I *have* to use Microsoft Word. -- Harald Koenig asking Donald E. Knuth From at258 at osfn.org Wed Jan 2 08:21:58 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have an equal or greater amount of experience, having gone through 3-4 MGA's, probably 20 MGB/MGBGT's, Austin America's, FX-3's and Rovers. The Lucas systems aren't perfect, but I don't find them significantly more troublesome than Delco or Autolite. If the car has been badly abused, though, and most are, the path to enlightenment is long and rocky. You're certainly on the money about the alternator rectifiers, though. They are tender. Still, my MGB's was rebuilt 12 years ago and is still functioning. It also has a 32 year old factory original starter. On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > > I have not had a lot of problems with Lucas products. I do find people > > tend not to give them routine maintenance and expect 30 year old parts > > to perform like factory fresh items. Lucas ignition coils, for instance > > seem very long lasting. Their electronic ignition bits and fuel > > injection systems (NOT CAV diesel systems) are notoriously troublesome. > > And their rectifiers and their voltage regulators and their generator > diodes and their headlight/taillight/signal bulb sockets.... > I can't speak to anything but Lucas automotive & motorcycle components. > But I've owned a '69 Triumph Tiger, a mostly-'65 Bonnie, a '62 Norton > Atlas (with a 750 Commando engine stuck in), and a '72 MGB. The MG was > only 4 years old, and the Atlas had just been restored when I got it, > with all new Lucas parts. So I can say with a fair amount of conviction > and authority: > Lucas Ltd. sucks. > > http://members.tripod.com/~tcotrel/lucas.html > > Doc > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 2 12:26:42 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote: > On Mon, 31 Dec 2001, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > Sounds right to me... > > Quiz: Anyone know what an RJ31X jack is for? Google is cheating ;) Are you thinking of RJ21X, which allows a device such as an alarm to insert itself on a line and interrupt whatever call may have been going on? Ok, I just Googled and I was mostly right. I'd just never heard of a RJ31X, only RJ21X. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 2 12:56:16 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Dec 2001, Chris wrote: > I had been taught that was a Rj-11 "handset", which has never really > sat well with me... but it is what I was taught, and it is what my > telco catalogs list the part as, so I had to accept it. That's completely wrong. I've never heard that terminology used, or if I did I ignored it as being ignorant. An RJ-11 is a single pair telephone jack plug. > Thanks to that link, it is claimed to be an RJ-22, which sits MUCH > better with me since it has its own designation. I can't speak for its > accuracy as it is the first time I have heard that, but if I had to > pick, I would go with RJ-22 over RJ-11 "handset". I never knew a handset had an RJ number. But anyway, I'll still just call it a "handset" as that makes more sense. > Oh, and I was taught in the field all my telco knowledge, never went > to school... it is learned from various Bell and private > installers/techs/whathaveyou... so who knows how accurate they are, > but I tend to give them more credence than most schools (except maybe > some Bell installers, the older ones are good, but most of the younger > ones suck royally) Ditto, but I had very good mentors, and they all knew the proper terminology. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From halarewich at shaw.ca Wed Jan 2 07:09:38 2002 From: halarewich at shaw.ca (chris halarewich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: trying to get back on list References: Message-ID: <3C330692.9727AEC0@shaw.ca> hi guys hopefully this reaches some one (JAY) I changed internet service providers and I am trying to get back on this list I went to the cc hompage and did what it said but when I try and reply to majordome with the auth code to verify I want to be on this list at my new email address it comes back with the same auth message HELP so if someone could find a way to put my email address back on the list that would be great my new email addy is halarewich@shaw.ca thank you in advance Chris Halarewich From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Jan 2 07:19:20 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: VMS 6.1 S/W Kit Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662CE@exc-reo1> +AD4- John Allain wrote: +AD4-The two problems I'm aware of is that the CD's aren't +AD4-9660 or PC compatible, so you need a VAX. Also most There is a Windows (or DOS??) reader available on the OpenVMS Freeware V4 CD at: http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware40/ods2-reader/ My recollection is that there was an even better one on the V3 Freeware but I cannot locate it on the V4 or V5 disks (I know some stuff was pruned to make room for newer stuff). Of course, once you get that far you'll find that the binaries are mostly OpenVMS BACKUP savesets (and if they aren't, they'll be PCSI...) and the docs are almost certainly in Bookreader format (and the Windows Bookreader product never made it out of the door). You +ACo-might+ACo- be able to make some use of this using the SIMH and TS10 VAX emulators, but I've not got around to firing those up yet and playing. Antonio From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Jan 2 07:22:06 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: VMS 6.1 S/W Kit Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662CF@exc-reo1> >If one wanted to be "historically correct", which version >would have been on a MicroVAX II during the time they >were in production? How would you now get that version >on a TK50 tape? Well MicroVMS V1.0 was (IIRC) based on VAX/VMS V4.0 with some bits cut out. That probably shipped with the MicroVAX I. The MicroVAX II came hot on its heels (again, IIRC) so an early MicroVMS would be appropriate. Good luck finding one. By the time we were running our LAVC with a MicroVAX II and a VS2000 in 1987 in the UK, VAX/VMS V4.5 was current and shipped with our MicroVAX II. It needed to be upgraded to either V4.5B or V4.5C to support the VS2K or the VS2K in a LAVC (I forget the exact issue, I do remember it was the first upgrade that I ever did). Antonio From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 2 10:10:04 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: VMS 6.1 S/W Kit In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662CF@exc-reo1> Message-ID: <20020102161004.56327.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Carlini, Antonio" wrote: > Well MicroVMS V1.0 was (IIRC) based on > VAX/VMS V4.0 with some bits cut out. > That probably shipped with the MicroVAX I. > The MicroVAX II came hot on its heels > (again, IIRC) so an early MicroVMS would > be appropriate. Good luck finding one. I have some stuff on RX50, but where I worked, they tended to recycle distribution diskettes (since blanks were expensive) so I doubt I have a complete set of anything truely ancient, but I can see what I _do_ have. I should probably start going through the boxes and boxes of diskettes (I already have started going through the boxes and boxes of TU58s). We had a uVAX-I when they were new, new, new. We also paid $17K to upgrade one to a uVAX-II. Still got both. I would have to fire up the uVAX-I to see what OS is on it, but I'm fairly certain it's on an RD52 (I don't think it's an RD51, but it could be. No way it could be an RD-53 - it has an RQDX1) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From wilby98 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 2 11:52:58 2002 From: wilby98 at yahoo.com (William S.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: VMS 6.1 S/W Kit In-Reply-To: <20020102161004.56327.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com>; from erd_6502@yahoo.com on Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 08:10:04AM -0800 References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662CF@exc-reo1> <20020102161004.56327.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020102185257.A27048@xs4all.nl> Thank you everyone for the followups to my inquiry. I did some deep searching at the compaq site and came up with some good details to supplement what others have posted. Here is a link to a pdf document: http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/20th/vmsbook.pdf According to the book... "1985" "MicroVAX chip introduced for the MicroVAX II, DIGITALS first 32-bit microprocessor." "VMS V4.2 shipped." It's nice to see others have kept MVII's up and running. It may be a challenge getting it all booted up and such but I sense it will be good and stable once it is running. Bill Amsterdam, NL On Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 08:10:04AM -0800, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > I have some stuff on RX50, but where I worked, they tended to > recycle distribution diskettes (since blanks were expensive) > so I doubt I have a complete set of anything truely ancient, > but I can see what I _do_ have. I should probably start > going through the boxes and boxes of diskettes (I already > have started going through the boxes and boxes of TU58s). > > We had a uVAX-I when they were new, new, new. We also paid $17K > to upgrade one to a uVAX-II. Still got both. I would have to > fire up the uVAX-I to see what OS is on it, but I'm fairly certain > it's on an RD52 (I don't think it's an RD51, but it could be. No > way it could be an RD-53 - it has an RQDX1) > From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jan 2 11:40:09 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: VMS 6.1 S/W Kit In-Reply-To: <20020102185257.A27048@xs4all.nl> References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662CF@exc-reo1> <20020102161004.56327.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> <20020102185257.A27048@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <02Jan2.135539est.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >According to the book... > >"1985" > >"MicroVAX chip introduced for the MicroVAX II, >DIGITALS first 32-bit microprocessor." > >"VMS V4.2 shipped." Page 60 of the book also shows that VMS V4.1, introduced Sept. 1984, was the first version to support the MicroVAX I/II processors. It also suggests that it was the first version to support VAXclusters. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From pechter at bg-tc-ppp426.monmouth.com Wed Jan 2 13:48:32 2002 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp426.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: VMS 6.1 S/W Kit In-Reply-To: <02Jan2.135539est.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> from Jeff Hellige at "Jan 2, 2002 01:40:09 pm" Message-ID: <200201021948.g02JmWj14591@bg-tc-ppp426.monmouth.com> > >According to the book... > > > >"1985" > > > >"MicroVAX chip introduced for the MicroVAX II, > >DIGITALS first 32-bit microprocessor." > > > >"VMS V4.2 shipped." > > Page 60 of the book also shows that VMS V4.1, introduced > Sept. 1984, was the first version to support the MicroVAX I/II > processors. It also suggests that it was the first version to > support VAXclusters. > > Jeff > -- > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.cchaven.com > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > IIRC they started with the HSC50 in 3.something (3.5 or so). IIRC HSC based VaxClusters were promised in 3.x but showed up late in 3.x or in the 4.x timeframe... LAVC stuff (ethernet clusters) showed up later. Bill -- d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com From RCini at congressfinancial.com Wed Jan 2 08:00:22 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: KIM-1 (was Re: Cheap Video cookbooks and machines WTD) Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E587A0A4@MAIL10> Ethan: I may actually have a copy of the Cheap Video Cookbook that I got with the TVT6 board for the KIM that I have (unbuilt in the package -- it's killing me). Is it black with a multi-color image on the front? If the binding is in acceptable condition, I'll copy it and scan it. Now I have to find it :-) Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 3:01 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: KIM-1 (was Re: Cheap Video cookbooks and machines WTD) --- Ben Franchuk wrote: > Hans B Pufal wrote: > > > > Philip Pemberton wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > I'm trying to get a copy of Don Lancaster's "Cheap Video > > > Cookbook" and "Son of Cheap Video" books I don't think the "Cheap Video Cookbook" would survive the scanning process (or at least, mine surely wouldn't - the binding would fragment and I would have a stack of loose sheets - easier to scan, but kinda messy for later). The guy who gave me the pile of S-100 stuff this week had "Son of Cheap Video", but he kept it. > I think somebody has done a KIM clone on the web if you need a clone. The KIM is one of the items on my list from that era to aquire (got a SYM-1 and an AIM-65). I'd love to see a website about a clone. Was it this - http://home.hccnet.nl/g.baltissen/kim-rb.gif - you were thinking of? A schematic, but no board layout (I can generate schematics all day long with OrCAD, but for a variety of reasons, I've never been able to successfully migrate one of my designs to a layout package, which is why the Elf99 project stalled). > From what I remember off the web > a 'true' KIM used custom 65xx parts for I/O and memory select. They do - custom 6530s - 1K ROM, 64 bytes of RAM, I/O and timer. Handy if you are trying to make a reduced-part-count machine. I think there's been some effort to imitate a KIM-1 6530 with a daughter-card, but I don't know if anyone has ever successfully emulated one. There's a *nice* KIM-1 page at, surprise, surprise, http://www.kim-1.com/ as well as Ruud Baltison's page at http://home.hccnet.nl/g.baltissen/kim.htm (Ruud is a frequent poster on the cbm-hacker's list) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From at258 at osfn.org Wed Jan 2 08:14:51 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: Lucas electrics In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020102155518.023a92e8@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: How about the Napier Deltic diesels and the BR Deltics that they built? On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Huw Davies wrote: > At 10:23 PM 1/01/2002 -0500, John Lawson wrote: > > > Having owned Jags, MGs, Triumphs, etc... I always appreciated the > >little bit of humour (yes, I know but it is English) that observed: > > > > > > "The reason most Englishmen like warm beer is because they all have > >Lucas refrigerators." > > Well we had an English Electric 'fridge which worked fine (and long, > purchased in 1963 and still getting the beer cold). I guess English > Electric must have been a large conglomerate with 'fridges being a minor > sideline (high speed jet fighters and computers being other more > "interesting" things they built). > > Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au > | "If God had wanted soccer played in the > | air, the sky would be painted green" > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From stanb at dial.pipex.com Wed Jan 2 13:06:36 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: Lucas electrics In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 02 Jan 2002 09:14:51 EST." Message-ID: <200201021906.TAA08710@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, M. K. Peirce said (apropos of English Electric): > How about the Napier Deltic diesels and the BR Deltics that they built? EE took over Napiers and the Deltic - my father worked in the stores at the time... PS The usual epithet is: "Joe Lucas, Prince of Darkness..." -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed Jan 2 09:03:58 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: OT: Not P.C. hack-ob Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146745A@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Dan Schwartz [mailto:Expresso@snip.net] ! ! ! Of all sites to get hacked, The National Cathedral. Click on: ! ! and check out the mouse-over effect for the "Discover" link :-) ! ! Who knows how much longer it'll stay up?! I know, it's not nice, but it is still kinda funny... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1188.monmouth.com Wed Jan 2 09:45:14 2002 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1188.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: PC-Tools (was: Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?) In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" at "Jan 1, 2002 11:45:06 am" Message-ID: <200201021545.g02FjEi14893@bg-tc-ppp1188.monmouth.com> > The Calculator accessory in Win 3.10 and 3.11 is flawed. Start it up, and > calculate the difference between 3.11 and 3.10 (3.11 - 3.10 = 0 ????) > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com I believe IBM had a fixed version downloadable with the OS/2 fixes from their ftp site. (Microsoft followed for a while... don't know if it is still there.) Bill -- d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com From mnadeau at editservices.com Wed Jan 2 09:53:43 2002 From: mnadeau at editservices.com (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: new email newsletter for classic computing buffs Message-ID: <00e901c193a5$a8288800$0b01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> As early as next week, I will launch the Classic Tech Eletter. It is a free, twice-monthly newsletter with short news items on vintage computing resources, collections, rescues, sales of important systems, and events. The eletter's audience is primarily folks who have an interest in collecting and/or preserving vintage systems. If you want to receive the eletter, please send me a note at eletter@classictechpub.com. You can see a sample issue at www.classictechpub.com under the News heading. Your contact info will not be sold or shared with anyone else. Anyone who has a news item or announcement is welcome to send it along. I'm eager to hear about your site updates or launches, availability of new emulators, or interesting new finds. Hope you enjoy the eletter. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editorial Services 603-893-2379 From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Jan 2 10:14:48 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: International Extensions In-Reply-To: <20020101.201206.1306.46300@wm1.wlv.juno.com> Message-ID: .ro is Romania. On Wed, 2 Jan 2002 jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > > ...ch - Switzerland > ...ru - Rumania ??? <<< RUssia > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. > > From rhblakeman at kih.net Wed Jan 2 10:40:58 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: International Extensions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think it's more like small countries are selling site names with their extension to make some bucks - like .CC - a local louisville rock station went to a .CC extension, they don't respond anymore but many people thought it was just a new extension for US commercial sites. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Doc Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 11:09 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re:RE: International Extensions On Wed, 2 Jan 2002 jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > > Oh yeah-- I almos' forgot: > > ..cx - Christmas Island > ..tw - Republic of China > didn't a bunch of countries sell their extensions? One of the guys I know has an email address of @something.st.... Doc > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. > From jamie at rbattison.freeserve.co.uk Wed Jan 2 10:26:02 2002 From: jamie at rbattison.freeserve.co.uk (jamie@rbattison.freeserve.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: This is my fifth attempt to get deleted.If i swear will i get automaticly wiped? Message-ID: <20020102162602.PKVP26370.fep08-svc.ttyl.com@localhost> Please help me surely someone can. _______________________________________________________________________ Never pay another Internet phone bill! Freeserve AnyTime, for all the Internet access you want, day and night, only ?12.99 per month. Sign-up at http://www.freeserve.com/time/anytime From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jan 2 10:37:31 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: This is my fifth attempt to get deleted.If i swear will i get automaticly wiped? References: <20020102162602.PKVP26370.fep08-svc.ttyl.com@localhost> Message-ID: <000701c193ab$c66ff040$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Probably not, but those spelling errors may do it. Can somebody help this guy out? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 9:26 AM Subject: This is my fifth attempt to get deleted.If i swear will i get automaticly wiped? > Please help me surely someone can. > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > Never pay another Internet phone bill! > Freeserve AnyTime, for all the Internet access you want, day and night, only ?12.99 per month. > Sign-up at http://www.freeserve.com/time/anytime > > > From west at tseinc.com Wed Jan 2 11:16:10 2002 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: This is my fifth attempt to get deleted.If i swear will i get automaticly wiped? References: <20020102162602.PKVP26370.fep08-svc.ttyl.com@localhost> <000701c193ab$c66ff040$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <000b01c193b1$2d5abba0$0101a8c0@jay> he was removed from the list a few days ago. I suspect he has received some stragling traffic that went out after his removal. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Erlacher" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 10:37 AM Subject: Re: This is my fifth attempt to get deleted.If i swear will i get automaticly wiped? > Probably not, but those spelling errors may do it. > > Can somebody help this guy out? > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 9:26 AM > Subject: This is my fifth attempt to get deleted.If i swear will i get > automaticly wiped? > > > > Please help me surely someone can. > > > > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > > Never pay another Internet phone bill! > > Freeserve AnyTime, for all the Internet access you want, day and night, > only ?12.99 per month. > > Sign-up at http://www.freeserve.com/time/anytime > > > > > > > > From allain at panix.com Wed Jan 2 10:56:35 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: This is my fifth attempt to get deleted.If i swear will i get automaticly wiped? References: <20020102162602.PKVP26370.fep08-svc.ttyl.com@localhost> Message-ID: <00eb01c193ae$70b6b820$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > This is my fifth attempt to get deleted.If i swear will i > get automaticly wiped? > Please help me surely someone can. Well, you must be old enough to wipe yourself to be on this list. Please consult here for instructions: http://www.classiccmp.org/firsthelp.html From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Jan 2 12:05:17 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: This is my fifth attempt to get deleted.If i swear will i get automaticly wiped? Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662D1@exc-reo1> >> This is my fifth attempt to get deleted.If i swear will i >> get automaticly wiped? >> Please help me surely someone can. > >Well, you must be old enough to wipe yourself to be on >this list. Please consult here for instructions: > http://www.classiccmp.org/firsthelp.html Well I had the opposite problem - it took me three goes to get subscribed; the final method (which worked) was to find the list owner's email and go direct :-) I don't know whether the automatic stuff was broken for all or just broken for me (nor, indeed, do I know whether it is fixed). So maybe he's tried and it doesn't work, in which case maybe he'll reply :-) I'd post Jay's email but since he moved just afore Xmas (IIRC) then it may not be too much use. Antonio From mythtech at Mac.com Wed Jan 2 11:56:25 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find Message-ID: >I don't know what they're teaching kids these days, but in the time period >for which this list is relevant, mechanics did/do indeed refer to any >adjustable wrench of that particular design as a "Crescent Wrench". They >do NOT use the term "Crescent Wrench" to refer to any other style of >adjustable wrench, and would consider THAT misuse as comparable to >referring to a box-end wrench as a "socket". At least around here, they are teaching that it is an Adjustable Wrench, and specifically teaching that it is NOT a Crescent wrench. I also am personally unaware of ANYONE that professionally works with tools like these (and that means, NOT a person that repairs computers for a living and happens to have one for the rare occasions it is needed, but rather people that are in construction, or automotive repair, or similar), and calls it a Crescent wrench. At least as far as everyone I know, and what I learned in school (theater set construction, and the fire academy, and what I have found from friends that went to VoTech schools), the only people that call it a Crescent wrench are snickered at behind their backs because they are a "layman". That doesn't mean I think it is wrong to call it a crescent wrech (I still do sometimes as that was what I originally knew it as), they just specifically teach here NOT to call it that. But that is just around here, and like all language terms, change dramatically with region (go to a restaurant around here and order "pop" and you will get a funny look... do it in the midwest, and they will know exactly what you want). Also, flip open any tool catalog you want, you won't see a generic adjustable wrench listed as a Crescent Wrench. Flip open a electronics parts catalog, and you *might* see the push on, D shapey, "Centronics" connector (regardless of number of pins), listed as a "Centronics". Mind you, that does NOT make it correct, just that at least you can find it listed that way. Of course, with all this, I am NOT saying that the connectors should be called Centronics. I personally don't care what they are called. Centronics, Blue Ribbon, or Susan... as long as I know what the person is talking about, then the term did its job, it conveyed meaning... and isn't that really the point to language in the first place? >Calling the connector in question an "Amphenol connector" (regardless of >who made that particular one) would, indeed be like using the >common term "Crescent Wrench" when referring to an "adjustable >wrench" (rather a vague, ambiguous name for it!) But the term arguers will complain about calling it an Amphenol just as much I am sure. >But calling it a "Centronics connector", particularly when dealing with >sizes other than 36, would be like calling the same wrench a "Ford >wrench". Agreed, but it still happens (albeit, wrongly) >In the original post that was objected to, the writer referred to >"Centronics Ports". THAT was wrong. If he were to have said "ports with >50 pin centronics connectors", then it would be a trivial misuse, and >everyone would know what he meant (although some would DOUBT whether what >he was seeing was correct -"are you sure they're 50s?"). BUT, a >"Centronics PORT" means a parallel printer port as its primary and only >meaning, and the ports in question were obviously not that. Again, agreed. >One of the old classics of email "humor" mentions in passing a "Craftsman >10mm crescent wrench". Calling a wrench made by Craftsman a "Crescent" is >what you are talking about. Since the dimensions of such wrenches were >the LENGTH of the wrench, and Crescent didn't at that time label any of >theirs in metric units, the "10mm" is just weird. LOL >In my garage, we had a box with a 150mm Crescent WANNABE, "rubber nails" >(steel nails for nailing rubber weatherstripping), spotted paint (sold in >a spray can by GM for repairing trunks), etc. for hazing the new parts >runners. And the all time favorite, ask for the 8/16th socket. I think maybe I am the only one that saw the inherent humor and irony in arguing about calling things by their correct name, and not their common name, and using a Crescent wrench as an example of how TO call items by their correct name. humor is wasted... -chris From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Jan 2 13:55:03 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020102144714.02ac7fb8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Chris may have mentioned these words: [snippage] > >In my garage, we had a box with a 150mm Crescent WANNABE, "rubber nails" > >(steel nails for nailing rubber weatherstripping), spotted paint (sold in > >a spray can by GM for repairing trunks), etc. for hazing the new parts > >runners. > >And the all time favorite, ask for the 8/16th socket. I always heard it as either the "left-handed" and/or "metric" adjustable wrench (which here in northern Michigan, seems to be interchangeable with "Crescent" albeit incorrectly) and in the military (I was a radio/wire dog) we had "frequency grease" to send others for... And as it's winter, and we *finally* have snow here, talk to some Western Ontario Canadians and ask them what a "snowmobile" or "snow sled" is - they'll most likely look at you funny, at least for a few seconds until it sinks in. They go "skidooing" in the wintertime. Happy incr(Year), Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an *older* .sig. (circa 1997!) Why does Hershey's put nutritional information on their candy bar wrappers when there's no nutritional value within? From allain at panix.com Wed Jan 2 14:11:22 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: Crescent wrenches References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020102144714.02ac7fb8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <01e101c193c9$a6924d40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Old Boss of mine called the larger triangular headed snippers (sim.: Xelite wire cutter) "Dykes". Any word on this... word. Is this a correct term? John A. From chris at mainecoon.com Wed Jan 2 14:28:46 2002 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: Crescent wrenches In-Reply-To: <01e101c193c9$a6924d40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: John Allain wrote: > Old Boss of mine called the larger triangular headed > snippers (sim.: Xelite wire cutter) "Dykes". Any word > on this... word. Is this a correct term? Sure -- derived from "diagonal cutters"... -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From donm at cts.com Wed Jan 2 14:52:20 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: Crescent wrenches In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Chris Kennedy wrote: > John Allain wrote: > > > Old Boss of mine called the larger triangular headed > > snippers (sim.: Xelite wire cutter) "Dykes". Any word > > on this... word. Is this a correct term? > > Sure -- derived from "diagonal cutters"... Hooray! We agree. - don > -- > Chris Kennedy > chris@mainecoon.com > http://www.mainecoon.com > PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 > From donm at cts.com Wed Jan 2 14:50:09 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:01 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: Crescent wrenches In-Reply-To: <01e101c193c9$a6924d40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, John Allain wrote: > Old Boss of mine called the larger triangular headed > snippers (sim.: Xelite wire cutter) "Dykes". Any word > on this... word. Is this a correct term? > > John A. > I am not sure about the application to the Xcelite tool, but "Dikes" is a contraction of `diagonal cutters'. - don From donm at cts.com Wed Jan 2 14:37:56 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Chris wrote: > >I don't know what they're teaching kids these days, but in the time period > >for which this list is relevant, mechanics did/do indeed refer to any ________O/_______ O\ > At least around here, they are teaching that it is an Adjustable Wrench, > and specifically teaching that it is NOT a Crescent wrench. Consider, please, that a "pipe" wrench is also an adjustable wrench as is what we call a monkey wrench. Neither of which are anywhere close to the Crescent wrench configuration. > Also, flip open any tool catalog you want, you won't see a generic > adjustable wrench listed as a Crescent Wrench. A peek at some of the items found in a google search for `crescent wrench': [toolguy.gif] Local 230 New Construction TOOL LIST for Plumbers & Pipe fitters. These are representative lists and they may vary slightly do to the phase of work actually being performed. Members may choose from the following lists and supplied hand tools shall not exceed $200.00 in value. LOCAL 230 NEW CONSTRUCTION TOOL LIST. ALL MEMBERS MUST SHOW UP WITH THE CORRECT HAND TOOLS WHEN REPORTING TO WORK. PLUMBER 14" PIPE WRENCH STRIKER 6" CRESCENT WRENCH 8" CRESCENT WRENCH 12" CRESCENT WRENCH #15 TUBING CUTTER (small) FITTER/WELDER 6" CRESCENT WRENCH 8" CRESCENT WRENCH 12" CRESCENT WRENCH THIS IS A REPRESENTATIVE LIST DEPENDING ON THE PHASE OF WORK INVOLVED (SETTING, FINISH, HOOKING UP EQUIPMENT, ETC.) OTHER GENERALLY USED HAND TOOLS MAY BE REQUIRED. PLEASE CHECK WITH LOCAL 230 IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS . LOCAL 230 CRAFTS PEOPLE WILL NOT SUPPLY CORDS, POWER TOOLS, LADDERS, TORCHES, OR SAFETY EQUIPMENT . HVAC and other Crafts will have their own distinct required tools. Check with the hall for what is required. ============= And as for the theatrical arena: For your consideration, here is a compilation of submissions to The Stagecraft Mailing List of examples of Non-Standard Theatrical terminology. This is a work in progress. If you have items that belong on this list, please send them to db4r@andrew.cmu.edu. Thanks much to the Carnegie Mellon School of Drama for the required display bandwidth. David Boevers. _________________________________________________________________ A Acetylene wrench cutting torch adjustable ball peen hammer crescent wrench American Screwdriver Hammer audition slippers kneepads C Crescent Wrench Hammer Aah, I'm getting tired. I rest my case. - don From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jan 2 15:25:04 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Chris wrote: > > > >I don't know what they're teaching kids these days, but in the time period > > >for which this list is relevant, mechanics did/do indeed refer to any > ________O/_______ > O\ > > At least around here, they are teaching that it is an Adjustable Wrench, > > and specifically teaching that it is NOT a Crescent wrench. > > Consider, please, that a "pipe" wrench is also an adjustable wrench as > is what we call a monkey wrench. Neither of which are anywhere close to > the Crescent wrench configuration. > > > Also, flip open any tool catalog you want, you won't see a generic > > adjustable wrench listed as a Crescent Wrench. I can't believe I'm jumping into this. I truly think that "proper" naming of tools is entirely dependent on regional and professional groups. I grew up in a steel fab shop, where any hammer without claws and less than 8 pounds was a "shop hammer" A tool with a handle & perpendiculsr, opposed chisel point and spike was a "slag hammer". The right-angle-grip, toothed one-directional-grab adjustable wrench was a pipe wrench, what I call 18" Channel-Loks were monkey wrenches, and the 40-degree adjustable hex wrench is a Crescent. Then I fell into the oil-feild, where calling a tool by the wrong name might literally earn you a set of bruises. There's no such thing as a "pipe wrench". Ever. There are 12-in. pipe-wrenches, 15-inch pipe-wrenches, up to 6-foot pipe wrenches. What I called a 4lb shop-hammer became a short hammer, and the 8-lb sledge became a short sledge. Anything under 4lb was a ball-peen, as they _usually_ were. Allen-wrenches became hex-heads. I think my own thesis is that after 30 years, or 2 generations, of use, any tool likely has a "proper name" ditrectly tied to its local use. Doc From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Jan 2 14:10:14 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225C7B@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > At least around here, they are teaching that it is an Adjustable Wrench, > and specifically teaching that it is NOT a Crescent wrench. Heh. Mexican speed wrench... ;) -dq From mythtech at Mac.com Wed Jan 2 12:03:05 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find Message-ID: >This is a grey issue. Brand names often become generic. I bet when you >want an "aspirin" you don't ask for a "pain reliever" or >"analgesic", and, unless you are a polymer chemist, what would you call >"styrofoam" other than "styrofoam"? Examples abound: >Kleenex, Band-aid, Thermos (from King-Sealy Thermos), Frisbee, etc. The >purpose of language is to communicate with precision, and >sometimes the most precise way is to use the "common usage" term. You >would sound pretty preposterous asking someone to toss you >that "plastic flying disc." Ok.. THANK YOU... this is the whole point. Crescent Wrench, Yo-Yo, Centronics... it matters not what the "correct" name is... what matters is that people understand what you are talking about, and that means, sometimes the "common name" takes over. Why is it that when it comes to a wrench, people can understand this, but when it comes to connectors they get their underwear in a bunch? My guess is, for the same reason I see red every time someone pulls out a video camera and says "let me film this"... it is TAPE damnit not film... to "normal" people, this makes no difference, to someone that spent years working in TV, it makes all the difference in the world (and if confused when talking about going on location for a shoot, you could wind up with a radically different set of equipment). -chris From mythtech at Mac.com Wed Jan 2 12:07:51 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find Message-ID: >>what should you >> call a Yo-Yo? (just seeing how many people know the answer to this one) > >Who knows? It's a YoYo here too. It was a trick question The correct answer is still YoYo. The YoYo was invented by/originally sold by the YoYo company. They only made the one self named toy. Duncan later came out with the same toy (capatalizing on the the success), and called it a YoYo since that is all people knew it by. YoYo Corp failed to sue in a timely manner (because they were getting recognition for every sale, not just their own). When Duncan started to beat them out, they then sued for trademark infringement, but lost, because it was deemed too late. Thus YoYo became not only the name of the manufacturer, but officially the name of the toy as well. Frisbee is a similar situation, there is no other "offical" name for the flying disc toy -chris From lkinzer at sciti.com Wed Jan 2 12:06:46 2002 From: lkinzer at sciti.com (Lowell Kinzer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Kaypro PC? In-Reply-To: <006101c192dc$405d47c0$68469280@Y5F3Q8> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020102082850.00b21e80@popmail.ltsp.com> At 10:51 AM 1/1/2002 -0500, Robert Schaefer wrote: >I'm looking for info on one of these. I's some kind of XT clone, with an >eight-bit passive backplane and an upgraded V20 on a CPU card. It runs >MSDOS, and >currently boots into dosshell. A little googling turns up numerous resumes >containing Kaypro PC, and a number of old classiccmp posts regarding them, >but no real info. kaypro.com seems to be down ATM. I'd especially like to >know what the switch and pushbutton on the back of the CPU card do. IIRC >it's not a reset button, but I might be mis-remembering. > >Bob The switch toggles the processor speed (down is 4.77 MHz, up is 10 MHz). The push button is the reset button. Lowell Kinzer lkinzer@sciti.com From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 2 13:10:40 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Kaypro PC? In-Reply-To: <006101c192dc$405d47c0$68469280@Y5F3Q8> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Robert Schaefer wrote: > I'm looking for info on one of these. I's some kind of XT clone, with > an eight-bit passive backplane and an upgraded V20 on a CPU card. It > runs MSDOS, and currently boots into dosshell. A little googling > turns up numerous resumes containing Kaypro PC, and a number of old > classiccmp posts regarding them, but no real info. kaypro.com seems > to be down ATM. I'd especially like to know what the switch and > pushbutton on the back of the CPU card do. IIRC it's not a reset > button, but I might be mis-remembering. There's not much more to know than you already do. It's an XT clone. No magic. I don't know what the button on the CPU card does. Have you booted it up and tried pushing it to see what happens? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 2 12:23:20 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Wanted: One Specific Piece of Software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Dec 2001 gwynp@artware.qc.ca wrote: > > Clipper did/does rock, but once I got into FoxPro I preferred it. > > What did foxpro have that clipper didn't? I think the DB engine was just better. Faster and more robust. Plus Compound Index Files are a huge advancement over the old dBase index file format (I don't know if later versions of Clipper than I used added some type of compound index file). The language syntax was very well developed, and you could also do (limited) SQL queries inline. It also had nice elements for building forms. I'm sure later versions of Clipper (5+) had cool features that perhaps matched FoxPro but I wouldn't know. > Eeep! Then you either switched to FoxPro too soon, or didn't drink fully > of Clipper. > > Here are 2 examples or xcommands: Very cool. FoxPro definitely didn't have this. But of course you could still do functions ;) > Perl (source-filters) and Forth (redefine basic words) allow similar > tomfoolery. I've always found language that allows one to change and > augment the basic syntax to be Extra Good. Yes. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jan 2 15:06:12 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Wanted: One Specific Piece of Software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 31 Dec 2001 gwynp@artware.qc.ca wrote: > > > > Clipper did/does rock, but once I got into FoxPro I preferred it. > > > > What did foxpro have that clipper didn't? Now that it matters, I've totally forgotten which application the original request was about. (Yes, if I tried I might be able to further wreck that grammar.) At my favorite thrift store, there's a boxed set of Clipper on 5.25 diskette, in a 3-inch-wide set and a 1.5-inch-wide set. The small box has only documentation, the large one has an unopened package (4-6) of 5.25" diskettes, 2 loose diskettes, and more docs. They want $3 and $8 respectively, IIRC. I couldn't find any version info, and you can tell I know nothing about the app itself, nor am I very interested in trying to find out. I'm totally strapped for cash right now, but if I had a firm commitment for the store price + S&H (probably 8-15 USD), I'd go get them, and ship on receipt. Doc From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Jan 2 12:53:43 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: DEC bus driver/receiver chips Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662D4@exc-reo1> >Yes (assuming the VT78/WS78/WT78 are all the same thing). Are you needing >some part in particular or just general looking? I have a WT78 (along with its dual floppy drives). I left the table behind but now I realise I've probably destroyed its historical value :-( It came with a couple of 8" floppies and a few (two or three) WPS manuals. I have zero technical info so anything vaguely technical would be nice. I've looked through your list of docs, and apart from WPS, OS/8 (does that apply??) and docs with 78 in the date I don't see any stuff that applies. Printsets, tech manuals, anything that will help me fix it (I'm sure it will break sometime in the next thirty years or so ...) would be nice. The computer conservation society here in the UK had one too that they were working on (I don't recall it's exact condition) but they didn't have any docs available when last I looked. I'll hunt out my two or three docs soon (they're in the garage too - and it's a tad cold right now!) and I'll get them scanned if they're not something you already have. Antonio From quapla at xs4all.nl Wed Jan 2 14:08:30 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (quapla@xs4all.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Some pointers needed on a 11/70 In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662D4@exc-reo1> References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662D4@exc-reo1> Message-ID: <11147.194.134.214.183.1010002110.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Hello All, First of all a Happy New Year. And now, something completely different...... Last Saturday, I finally had a chance to spend some time in reviving my pdp 11/70 which I accuired last summer. With the help of Henk Gooien, we spend nearly a whole day in cleaning the machine, the backplane, the power supply, and then rebuilding it. Of course, we checked the power supply voltages prior to placing the boards in the backplane, and all voltages were between 5.05 and 5.15 at the backlane (measured at the connectors of the BP). Besides some small mistakes (not all PS modules in place for the CPU, and not having a powered memory box), we managed to get the machine partly running, that is, the lights are reacting to the 2 knob settings, and some data is displayed on the console. However, when depositing some data at address 1000, nothing happens, and the parity and/or address error light goes on. Same when trying to see the contents of any (low) address. So, I have a few questions: - I have heard about a system address register which sets the size of the memory, where is this address located? - At the back of the memory box, there are somw switches and 4 thumbwheel switches. What is their purpose? - Is the ROM boot address still 177560? or must it be 17777560 on the 11/70? - If I have to limit the cpu to it's bare size (i.e. no FPU), do I need to ad or remove some jumpers (as is needed f.e. on an 11/35)? On a side note, I have heard of the PEP-70 memory upgrade, what is it exactly? And what about the QED-70 CPU upgrade (or is it replacement) BTW, the machine has no Massbus pheripherals, it will only use Unibus devices. I have the machine currently configured with a full cpu, bus grantcards in the massbus slots, a DL11 for the console, and wide grand cards in the remaining 4 Unibus slots. There is a M9302 terminator in the last slot, and a newer boot card in row 1 slot E/F. The memory box has 256Kb of memory. Thanks, Ed From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 2 12:54:27 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Dec 2001 Golemancd@aol.com wrote: > i agree about the os but i dont agree on the attempt part > dont attempt it. do it. a computer is not that complex of a machine > at least a pc. an os is all theory and vision. > u can think up an entire os away from any pc. > u could then just go in and code the entire thing. > the hard part is thinking up what it is that u want > and how it has to work. the coding and so forth > is the easy part. this is the exact project i am working > on now Can we please have complete sentences, some capitalization, proper grammatical structure and standard punctuation please? It's not even worth my time to try to make sense of this chicken scratch. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Jan 2 14:19:45 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > On Mon, 31 Dec 2001 Golemancd@aol.com wrote: > > > i agree about the os but i dont agree on the attempt part > > dont attempt it. do it. a computer is not that complex of a machine > > at least a pc. an os is all theory and vision. > > u can think up an entire os away from any pc. > > u could then just go in and code the entire thing. > > the hard part is thinking up what it is that u want > > and how it has to work. the coding and so forth > > is the easy part. this is the exact project i am working > > on now > > Can we please have complete sentences, some capitalization, proper > grammatical structure and standard punctuation please? It's not even > worth my time to try to make sense of this chicken scratch. > It's either because he's one of those AOL Sheeple, or he's B1FF!!!!!1!111!!!. g. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 2 14:35:48 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Mon, 31 Dec 2001 Golemancd@aol.com wrote: > >> i agree about the os but i dont agree on the attempt part >> dont attempt it. do it. a computer is not that complex of a machine >> at least a pc. an os is all theory and vision. >> u can think up an entire os away from any pc. >> u could then just go in and code the entire thing. >> the hard part is thinking up what it is that u want >> and how it has to work. the coding and so forth >> is the easy part. this is the exact project i am working >> on now > >Can we please have complete sentences, some capitalization, proper >grammatical structure and standard punctuation please? It's not even >worth my time to try to make sense of this chicken scratch. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer I've got to agree with this 100%, that mess is painful to try and read. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From sipke at wxs.nl Wed Jan 2 14:08:24 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: [OT] Euroconversion for WP5x Message-ID: <000901c193c9$3cc2e640$030101ac@boll.casema.net> This is a possibly [OT] but a rather acute problem on the European continent and maybe elsewhere.......... and WP51 under MS-DOS is rather vintage these days ..................... How do you get your good ol' WP5x to print anything resembling a EURO SYMBOL ..... I had to figure out this problem for my girlfriend cause at her work they still work with WP51 in a MS-DOS environment and it will take a few month (maybe years) before they'll switch to some winsux solution ........ (I admit this sounds stupid but, uhm... it's true!) For anyone with the same pressing needs ......... I've posted a few EURO-symbol options in a WP5x file in the Euro-folder of the filesection of my website. (English and Dutch versions aviable) Sipke de Wal ----------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx ----------------------------------------------- From mythtech at Mac.com Wed Jan 2 14:51:06 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: Crescent wrenches Message-ID: >Old Boss of mine called the larger triangular headed >snippers (sim.: Xelite wire cutter) "Dykes". Any word >on this... word. Is this a correct term? I learned that Dykes were the square nosed pliers/wire cutters. Later to learn them by a seemingly more proper name of "Bull Nose Pliers". And I have heard the triangular headed ones called Dykes as well, but I have always just called them wire cutters (but I interchange Dykes and Bull Nose pliers all the time for the other ones.) I have NO idea if these are the right terms (I would lean towards thinking Bull Nose is correct, but I tend to doubt Dykes is anything more than an used term) -chris From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed Jan 2 14:56:29 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Ultrix 4.4 and VaxStation 3100 Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467461@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! From: Jochen Kunz [mailto:jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de] ! ! ! > (assuming X11 worked on ! > the Vaxstation 3100 under Ultrix -- I assume it would.) ! AFAIK the SPX graphics was not supported, only the mono and GPX ! framebuffers. So there is some chance of NetBSD/Xwindows running on my b&w 3100m38? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From wlewis at mailbag.com Wed Jan 2 15:06:44 2002 From: wlewis at mailbag.com (wlewis@mailbag.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: WTB SGI Indy Message-ID: <200201022106.g02L6ja12579@mailbag.com> R. P. Bell said: > Anybody got any good suggestions on where to go to get a nice SGI Indy, just > for playing around -- preferably cheap? Contact me off list and let me know what your idea of cheap is. William Barnett-Lewis wlewis@mailbag.com From mythtech at Mac.com Wed Jan 2 15:22:32 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches Message-ID: >Aah, I'm getting tired. I rest my case. Your tool listing was NOT from a catalog... it was from someone saying what you need to show up with. I specifically said it would NOT be listed that way in a CATALOG (although, I do retract my statement, as I have found one such listing that it does to my great surprise). Since it is a list of tools to show up with... it could very well be that you should have a true Crescent wrench (but that is stretching it pretty far, so I am sure they are just refering to any adjustable "crescent" wrench) As for the theater, that may be regional, that may not be... the theaters in my area do NOT call it a crescent wrench unless you are a "rookie". That doesn't mean other theaters don't. (And we call the others a "pipe wrench" or a "monkey wrench" depending on if it has a loose head or not, pipe is loose, monkey is fixed) Once again, it is language, and ALL language is regional, sometimes as microscale as within a few city blocks. The argument still holds no water when the discussion is calling an item by its CORRECT name. Crescent, no matter HOW "accepted" is not the "technically" correct name. It is no more correct than a DB9 in reference to what is a DE9. Sure, it might be widely accepted, and you may have a better chance of getting what you really want, but it is still "technically" incorrect. Aah... I'M getting tired... I give up... this was never supposed to be a wrench discussion, it was supposed to be a one shot email pointing out irony. (Hey Sellam... demand some moderation already to bring this to an end and put me out of my misery) -chris From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 2 16:05:03 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: MV-III CPU vs RD53 drives In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Jan 02, 2002 03:38:10 PM Message-ID: <200201022205.g02M53X07509@shell1.aracnet.com> > I've been offered a trade of a MV-III CPU, 8M memory board to match, > and a graphics board for the naked BA123 in the garage. I have some > spare RD53 disks, and a couple of TK50 drives. The gentleman is asking > how many disks the CPU boards are worth, and I haven't a clue. > Any opinions? > > Doc I've an opinion, but it's probably not what you want to hear. No amount of RD53's is worth a KA650 CPU! I'd personally value a MicroVAX I CPU higher than RD53 drives. Now an RQDX1 or RQDX2 for a RD53 might be more like i. BTW, yes, I hate RD53's and consider them worthless! Zane From pcw at mesanet.com Wed Jan 2 16:35:15 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: MV-III CPU vs RD53 drives In-Reply-To: <200201022205.g02M53X07509@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > I've been offered a trade of a MV-III CPU, 8M memory board to match, > > and a graphics board for the naked BA123 in the garage. I have some > > spare RD53 disks, and a couple of TK50 drives. The gentleman is asking > > how many disks the CPU boards are worth, and I haven't a clue. > > Any opinions? > > > > Doc > > I've an opinion, but it's probably not what you want to hear. No amount of > RD53's is worth a KA650 CPU! I'd personally value a MicroVAX I CPU higher > than RD53 drives. Now an RQDX1 or RQDX2 for a RD53 might be more like i. > > BTW, yes, I hate RD53's and consider them worthless! > > Zane > > Actually a _working_ RD53 ought to be worth quite a bit since they are so rare ;-) Peter Wallace From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jan 2 16:37:57 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: MV-III CPU vs RD53 drives In-Reply-To: <200201022205.g02M53X07509@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I've an opinion, but it's probably not what you want to hear. No amount of > RD53's is worth a KA650 CPU! I'd personally value a MicroVAX I CPU higher > than RD53 drives. Now an RQDX1 or RQDX2 for a RD53 might be more like i. Well, that's sort of my [untutored] view too, but hey. I guess it's what you want & when. He's doing strictly PDP stuff, so the VAX boards are gathering dust. I also forgot to ask the other pertinent question. Assuming I can replace the DEQNA ethernet adapter, do I *need* local disks? I'm thinking a TK50, and a remote filesystem. MFM drives have never tripped my trigger. Doc From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Jan 2 15:40:44 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: NetBSD and X11 on VS3100 (was: Re: Ultrix 4.4 and VaxStation 3100) In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467461@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu>; from DAW@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu on Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 21:56:29 CET References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467461@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <20020102224044.E3861@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.01.02 21:56 David Woyciesjes wrote: > ! > (assuming X11 worked on > ! > the Vaxstation 3100 under Ultrix -- I assume it would.) > ! AFAIK the SPX graphics was not supported, only the mono and GPX > ! framebuffers. > So there is some chance of NetBSD/Xwindows running on my b&w 3100m38? There where at some time two people working on a Xserver for the mono framebuffer of the VS3100 line. AFAIK this work was merged into NetBSD-current. At least someone on port-vax@netbsd.org should be able to support you the needed files... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jan 2 15:38:10 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: MV-III CPU vs RD53 drives Message-ID: Hey, all. I've been offered a trade of a MV-III CPU, 8M memory board to match, and a graphics board for the naked BA123 in the garage. I have some spare RD53 disks, and a couple of TK50 drives. The gentleman is asking how many disks the CPU boards are worth, and I haven't a clue. Any opinions? Doc From vaxman at earthlink.net Wed Jan 2 16:56:27 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Ultrix 4.4 and VaxStation 3100 In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467461@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: The last I heard, NetBSD didn't support any sort of graphics console. Not even as a text only console... Clint On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > ! From: Jochen Kunz [mailto:jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de] > ! > ! > ! > (assuming X11 worked on > ! > the Vaxstation 3100 under Ultrix -- I assume it would.) > ! AFAIK the SPX graphics was not supported, only the mono and GPX > ! framebuffers. > > So there is some chance of NetBSD/Xwindows running on my b&w 3100m38? > > --- David A Woyciesjes > --- C & IS Support Specialist > --- Yale University Press > --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu > --- (203) 432-0953 > --- ICQ # - 905818 > From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Jan 2 16:14:54 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Tesla (was Engineers (was: Connectors In-Reply-To: <125.990ac39.29629097@aol.com> Message-ID: <3C3331FE.19360.1471B43A@localhost> I was referring to the popular image of Edison as held in the U.S. The subject of Tesla's primacy and contributions to radio transmission is too vast a subject to cover here nor do I have the expertese. Suffice to say that in 1893 before the Franklin Institute in Philadelphia he demonstrated all the fundamental principals of modern radio. 1. An antenna or aerial wire 2. A ground connection 3. An aerial-ground circuit containing inductance and capacity 4. Adjustabe inductance and capacity (for tuning) 5. Sending and reciving sets tuned to resonance with each other 6. Electronic tube detectors The paper was translated and dissemnated in many languages. This was done 2 years before Marconi's demonstration in 1895. In the Supreme Court judgement of 1943 ruling in Marconi vs U.S. that Tesla had anticipated all other contenders with his fundamental radio patents. One of the justices commented that Marconi's claim that he had never seen the paper as ludicrous. I would recommend to you that you look into Tesla's contributions to modern science, it's little known but astounding. Even now it is alleged that his papers, seized by the US government upon his death, some of which were classified and turned over to the Dept of Nat.Defense, are the underpinnings of the HAARP project and also long-distance communication for submarines and other things (ELFwaves) To me he is the greatest engineer of all time. Lawrence > Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > Well from what I've heard about the "father of electricity" and Henry Ford > for > > that matter, he would hire a bunch of "promising" engineers like Tesla, > > take what they've already discovered, claim them as products of his own > > and become a wold-famous inventor. And of course, like Marconi, become the > > "inventor of Radio" which we are now celebrating, despite the fact that > Tesla > > won a court decision in US courts to his primacy with it. History is > written by > > the Victors. > > I hope you meant Faraday as the "father of electricity" and not Edison. > As for Marconi, I'd say he "pioneered" radio engineering but wouldn't have > got very far if it hadn't been for Hertz. I'm not sure how Tesla fits into the > picture, he did invent the squirel cage induction motor but I'm not aware of any > major contributions he made to radio engineering. > > Chris > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Jan 2 16:14:54 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: <005001c192e7$b2b82dc0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3C3331FE.31398.1471B408@localhost> More correct would be " to the type of person he was at that time." My implication also relates to the idea that most of us grow callous over time to the ideals we held when we were younger. Lawrence > > which would be horrifying to him as he was then. > > What? Want to be with you on this. > > John A. > > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Jan 2 16:14:54 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: OT: Older inventory programs for home computers In-Reply-To: <20011231202202.BTNM9690.tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <3C306693.18466.986B1CE@localhost> Message-ID: <3C3331FE.14657.1471B476@localhost> Well I have to go with what I have excess in my collection. Since I don't have any MCA SCSI cards much less SCSI drives I can spare I'll go with the ESDE's that came with it. His shop is a large shed he built himself 10 yrs ago, with a little nook he uses for his records and paper work. It might be advisable tho to reverse the fan and rig up a filter of some sort as you point out. This is strictly a gift so I don't want to install stuff which I would pay for out of my limited resources, and I doubt he would have monies available for what might be considered not a priority as compared to a new set of wrenches. Thanks Lawrence > > From: "Lawrence Walker" > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 13:22:27 -0600 > > Subject: Re: OT: Older inventory programs for home computers > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > Thanks all for the suggestions. > > I've decided to go with a spare IBM 8580 I have. They're built like a tank > > and > > could survive the rigors of a machine shop. Also I don't want to part with a > > Not good idea...without enclosing and close all openings w/ screen > that '80 boxen to keep junk out that shop produces. Safe places is > either in cashier room or office room. These rooms that does have > self-closing doors is best for 'puters. > > Going to have SCSI in that 80? You better do that. SCSI is > strongly recommanded for ease of replacement and used narrow scsi > drives are plentiful and inexpensive. ESDI and MFM is not best > idea, these drives are harder to find now and too used up. > > Before putting that machine there, don't forget to blow out that PSU > w/ compressed air. IBM PSUs too often were found loaded full of > dust. > > Cheers, > > Wizard > > PS: I have seen stuff that wasn't intended for shop use got full > of greasy junk along w/ metallic bits. Sharp shavings mixed w/ > greasy dirt in home blower wheel that was pulled from dud forced air > heater that was used to move stale air around in machine shop. > My other friend was given this blower and I took it apart and washed > everything in kitchen sink, repaired power cable splice bec some > bastards simply twisted wires together without wire nuts or solder, > AAAHH! Welding, grinding stuff let fly lot of particles that get in > everything and does damage other stuff. Someone was grinding > something w/ bench grinder and sparks/particles that was let fly > pitted friend's jetta's windows 8 feet away. Friend stored his jetta > there for complete repaint and some repairs to his CV joint at high > school. Shop enviroment is very HARSH FYI. Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Jan 2 16:59:37 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: OT: Older inventory programs for home computers Message-ID: In a message dated 1/2/2002 5:19:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, lgwalker@mts.net writes: << Well I have to go with what I have excess in my collection. Since I don't have any MCA SCSI cards much less SCSI drives I can spare I'll go with the ESDE's that came with it. His shop is a large shed he built himself 10 yrs ago, with a little nook he uses for his records and paper work. It might be advisable tho to reverse the fan and rig up a filter of some sort as you point out. This is strictly a gift so I don't want to install stuff which I would pay for out of my limited resources, and I doubt he would have monies available for what might be considered not a priority as compared to a new set of wrenches. Thanks >> If i dont have to pay shipping, I can contribute a SCSI card and maybe drive or two. problem is, you'll need the bracket for mounting 3.5 hard drives in the mod 80. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Jan 2 16:14:54 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Too much college? (was: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: References: <008501c19246$c9777620$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3C3331FE.6926.1471B4AD@localhost> The Edison electric chair was part of Edisons campaign to show how dangerous Tesla's and Westinghouse' A.C. transmission was. And also to promote his D.C. method. In his vituperous campaign he would hold exhibitions displaying to strong-stomached reporters how stray pets he had youths snatch off the streets would be Westinghoused by AC currents. Edison had managed thrugh subterfuge to acquire a license to use 3 of the Tesla patents. So it was only a development by default by Edison. The Sing-Sing execution exhibition was a flop since Edisons engineers underestimated the charge to be used (they had only used it on small animals previously) and they only half-killed the prisoner. They had to zap poor guy again and in the words of a reporter present it was " an awful spectacle, far worse than hanging" I guess you could call him a good manager type with the wisdom to recognize a good idea, but others might also call it theft of intellectual property. Word was that when one of his young employees came up with an idea he would immediately the next day scoot out and patent it. This, as well as minimal pay, was the source of Tesla and Edisons lifelong animosity. He claimed Edison cheated him. Lawrence > On Mon, 31 Dec 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > From what I've read, Edison wasn't a technician, either, but, rather, was a > > manager type. He had the wisdom to see a good idea, though he clearly goofed > > with his take on electric power transmission. > > But didn't he develop the first practical commercial electric chair as > part of his promotion of his power transmission system? > Electrocution is much more energy efficient than having to melt a pot of > iron. > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From vaxman at earthlink.net Wed Jan 2 16:54:20 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: Crescent wrenches In-Reply-To: <01e101c193c9$a6924d40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: An old tech once told me it was because they would bite off anything that got betwixt their jaws... Suprisingly, it was the ONLY slightly off-color thing I heard him say... clint On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, John Allain wrote: > Old Boss of mine called the larger triangular headed > snippers (sim.: Xelite wire cutter) "Dykes". Any word > on this... word. Is this a correct term? > > John A. > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 2 15:51:20 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: from "Pat Finnegan" at Jan 1, 2 11:27:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 211 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020102/d54a6952/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 2 15:56:59 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: from "Merle K. Peirce" at Jan 1, 2 11:33:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1529 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020102/63417d98/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 2 15:59:52 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Lucas electrics In-Reply-To: <20020102055344.MTV21559.femail45.sdc1.sfba.home.com@BENCHBOX> from "UberTechnoid@Home.com" at Jan 2, 2 00:52:48 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 412 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020102/b71aa42b/attachment.ksh From vaxman at earthlink.net Wed Jan 2 17:06:28 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: MV-III CPU vs RD53 drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A KA650 + memory is worth about $50 bucks on ebay... A graphics board (M7168?) is worth between $1 and $10, and the graphics memory boards (M7169?) are about the same. A BA123 is worth next to nothing because of the expense involved in shipping it. Used RD53s are worth about $5, new ones between $20 and $100 depending on how bad the buyer needs one... A dead RD53 is worth abouth 10 cents a pound. A TK50 is worth $10. So, If I was making the trade from your perspective, give him the BA123 and all the RD53s he can haul away, and be happy. Maybe a TK50 also, but only if he begs... If I was making the trade from his perspective, I'd hope someone would stop me from doing something so foolish... To each his own... Clint PS These prices are based on what I would pay given the opportunity. Your mileage may vary... On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > Hey, all. > I've been offered a trade of a MV-III CPU, 8M memory board to match, > and a graphics board for the naked BA123 in the garage. I have some > spare RD53 disks, and a couple of TK50 drives. The gentleman is asking > how many disks the CPU boards are worth, and I haven't a clue. > Any opinions? > > Doc > > From vaxman at earthlink.net Wed Jan 2 17:10:23 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: MV-III CPU vs RD53 drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes, you will need a local disk or more memory. 8MB isn't enough to run without swapping, and swapping across the ethernet is painful. Even running with only a local swap drive is pretty painful.... I'd suggest you buy a SCSI controller (they typically go for $150+ on ebay), and hang a 1.2GB SCSI drive off it. You get the performance and reliability of modern drives to go with a reasonably fast CPU :) Clint On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > I've an opinion, but it's probably not what you want to hear. No amount of > > RD53's is worth a KA650 CPU! I'd personally value a MicroVAX I CPU higher > > than RD53 drives. Now an RQDX1 or RQDX2 for a RD53 might be more like i. > > Well, that's sort of my [untutored] view too, but hey. I guess it's > what you want & when. He's doing strictly PDP stuff, so the VAX boards > are gathering dust. > I also forgot to ask the other pertinent question. Assuming I can > replace the DEQNA ethernet adapter, do I *need* local disks? I'm > thinking a TK50, and a remote filesystem. MFM drives have never tripped > my trigger. > > Doc > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Jan 2 17:06:55 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: Crescent wrenches Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225C7F@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Old Boss of mine called the larger triangular headed > snippers (sim.: Xelite wire cutter) "Dykes". Any word > on this... word. Is this a correct term? Yes, it's a contraction of "DIagonal Cutters". -dq From jwbirdsa at picarefy.com Wed Jan 2 17:06:57 2002 From: jwbirdsa at picarefy.com (jwbirdsa@picarefy.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: OS/2 1.3 EE Message-ID: <20020102230657.7808.qmail@picarefy.picarefy.com> Does anybody have a copy of this? I have MS OS/2 1.3, and I have TCP/IP for OS/2 1.3 EE, but they don't work together. I'd love to have EE so I can put TCP/IP on it and install the lot on a 286. Maybe I can dig up a web server for it. :) Thanks! --James B. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 2 17:27:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: from "Chris" at Jan 2, 2 01:03:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2225 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020102/394a42e7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 2 17:54:12 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: Crescent wrenches In-Reply-To: <01e101c193c9$a6924d40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Jan 2, 2 03:11:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 325 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020102/0c7da42e/attachment.ksh From allain at panix.com Wed Jan 2 18:02:49 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Lucas electrics References: Message-ID: <00a501c193e9$fb8efe40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Can Lucas Still be bad? After decades of bad press you'd think it'd self correct for the sake of the Business surviving. John A. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jan 2 18:19:06 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Some pointers needed on a 11/70 In-Reply-To: "Some pointers needed on a 11/70" (Jan 2, 21:08) References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662D4@exc-reo1> <11147.194.134.214.183.1010002110.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <10201030019.ZM14991@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 2, 21:08, wrote: > Besides some small mistakes (not all PS modules in place for the CPU, and > not having a powered memory box), we managed to get the machine partly > running, that is, the lights are reacting to the 2 knob settings, and some > data is displayed on the console. > > However, when depositing some data at address 1000, nothing happens, and > the parity and/or address error light goes on. Same when trying to see > the contents of any (low) address. So, I have a few questions: I'm sure there must be people on the list who know more about 11/70s than I do, but since no-one else has replied yet... Is the memory powered up and connected? At the right address (you must have some memory in the lowest 28KW to start up)? Is the cache working? There are various things done by the power-up bootstrap diagnostic routines to set up the cache and memory system; and there are ways to disable cache, Unibus map, certain errors, etc, by poking bits into control registers. And I think you probably want to set the console Address Select Switch to CONS(ole) PHYS(ical). > - I have heard about a system address register which sets the size of > the memory, where is this address located? 17177760 is the "lower size register". Set it to the address of the last addressable block of 32 words (ie offset by 6 bits). There's an upper size register as well, "reserved for future use", read-only, reads as zeros, at 17177762. > - At the back of the memory box, there are somw switches and 4 thumbwheel > switches. What is their purpose? I assume to set the base address of the memory in the box, but never having set one up, I don't know. > - Is the ROM boot address still 177560? or must it be 17777560 on the 11/70? Well, it would be 18 bits, since it's on the Unibus, in an M9301-YC or equivalent. But 177560 (or 777560) is the address of the console serial line. The bootstrap is at 765000. I'm not sure if you need to set the top four bits as well, as if I recall correctly, the Unibus is mapped to the top of physical memory. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From chris at mainecoon.com Wed Jan 2 18:28:18 2002 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Lucas electrics (was: RE: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tony Duell wrote: [stuff deleted] > So my experience suggests that Lucas stuff is pretty reliable. I think it depends on vintage. More recent is decidedly better than older. My experiences include: - Multiple defective ignition amplifiers on an early series III V12 E-type. - Lack of suitable snubbers on the cooling fan relays on an early (like number three in the US) XJ12, resulting in overtemp problems in the middle of nowhere (jumper around the fried relay and limp home). - Multiple regulator failures with accompanying battery cook-off (no failure warnings other than sulfuric acid fumes filling the car) in the same XJ12. - A trashed engine in a 4.2 E type owing to the incredibly long integration time of the Lucas thermally-driven oil pressure gauge (blew a rear oil seal [not hard to do] on a twisty road; leaked enough oil to unport the oil pick up on the corners but never had any indication that I was losing oil pressure because the gauge had a response time measured in seconds) - Easily out-driven headlights on a 3.8 E type. While other vehicles of the same vintage had reasonably bright lights, the best one could hope for out of the Jag was a warm brownish glow. There were other, to-be-expected items, like the incredibly nasty Bendix on the 3.8 starter, worn brushes on the 3.8 starter, a worn-out washer fluid motor (attached to a _glass_ fluid reservoir), worn points on the wiper motor. There was once a piece in AutoWeek, back in the 80's, wherein one of the writers discussed how those of us who drove British cars learned to tuck in behind large trucks on dark, stormy nights, because while people would have a hard time seeing the feeble glow of our tail lights (driven by "Second String Electrons", rather than "Robust Detroit Electrons"), they'd at least see the bright lights of the trailer and _probably_ not drive up the ass-end of our cars. I finally addressed the problem by hacking in a Delco internally regulated alternator (which was a lot of fun on a positive-ground vehicle). -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From rschaefe at gcfn.org Wed Jan 2 18:31:13 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Kaypro PC? References: Message-ID: <00b801c193ed$f3da8080$b4469280@Y5F3Q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 02:10 PM Subject: Re: Kaypro PC? > On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Robert Schaefer wrote: > > > I'm looking for info on one of these. I's some kind of XT clone, with > > an eight-bit passive backplane and an upgraded V20 on a CPU card. It > > runs MSDOS, and currently boots into dosshell. A little googling > > turns up numerous resumes containing Kaypro PC, and a number of old > > classiccmp posts regarding them, but no real info. kaypro.com seems > > to be down ATM. I'd especially like to know what the switch and > > pushbutton on the back of the CPU card do. IIRC it's not a reset > > button, but I might be mis-remembering. > > There's not much more to know than you already do. It's an XT clone. No > magic. I don't know what the button on the CPU card does. Have you > booted it up and tried pushing it to see what happens? Well, I was hoping it'd be a little more interesting, to somebody else if not to me. I'm debating about pulling one of the 8284a's off of it to pop into the PC I've been playing with, but I can't hardly bring myself to pull parts from a operable machine. Bob > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mythtech at Mac.com Wed Jan 2 18:40:31 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find Message-ID: >You are still missing the point.... No, I'm really not... see below >My complant, yet again, is using the term 'Centronics port' for a SCSI >interface using a 50 pin Blue Ribbon connector. Because that interface >has little in common with the parallel printer interface mentioned above. >And when this SCSI port is on a printer it is very misleading to call it >a Centronics interface. Sorry, Tony, I was never trying to argue this point. I was only trying to point out the irony of using a misnomer to fight a misnomer.... regardless of the validity of either one... I had just found the idea funny. I personally don't disagree with trying to correct names... nor do I disagree with calling things by their "common" name, nor do I disagree with calling things by their WRONG names. As long as the item in question can be successfully communicated... which can sometimes, such as with the miscalling a SCSI-1 "Blue Ribbon" connector, a Centronics port, cause confusion. I understood what was meant, but others, more technically savvy than I may have been confused (in part because to me, a connector similar to that found on a printer, but that contains 50 pins is used for one of two things, SCSI-1, or 25 pair phone cable, and since this was a printer, I ruled out phone cable). To people like yourself, who have more knowledge than I can ever hope to, probably know of dozens more uses, and thus find it a problem to call it the wrong thing. >But this list is made up (at least in part) of technical people for whom >it _does_ matter whether an interface is a parallel printer port or a >SCSI interface. It may not matter to the average user (provided both >machine and printer have the same interface and mating connectors), but >it certainly matters to people here who want to use the printer with >other machines, who want to repair or modify it, and so on. Agreed (see above). For those that this kind of thing can mean something totally different than what was intended, it matters a great deal (like my tape vs film situation... if I had ever told a crew, "lets go down to the courthouse and shoot some film... get a crew together", I would have been in for a rude surprise when they showed up with a 32mm camera and DAT deck... when what I wanted was 2 guys and a BetaCam outfit). But like I said, my intent was never to argue this point at all... it was simply to point out the humor in the one responder's comments regarding a Crescent wrench, when discussing calling things by their correct name. See, I took it along the lines of them saying "Don't call it a Centronics Port, because if you do again, I am going to smack you with my Craftsman Brand Crescent Wrench". Now granted, that isn't what they said, but maybe now some of the irony I originally saw will come thru. They are saying don't call something by the wrong name, because if you do I will hit you with something that I am calling by the wrong name. I found it funny... I guess I am more easily amused than some others on the list (and yes, I am fascinated by shiny objects) -chris From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 2 18:42:45 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: OS/2 1.3 EE In-Reply-To: from "jwbirdsa@picarefy.com" at Jan 02, 2002 11:06:57 PM Message-ID: <200201030042.g030gjX02324@shell1.aracnet.com> > Does anybody have a copy of this? I have MS OS/2 1.3, and I have > TCP/IP for OS/2 1.3 EE, but they don't work together. I'd love to have > EE so I can put TCP/IP on it and install the lot on a 286. Maybe I can > dig up a web server for it. :) > > Thanks! > > --James B. Microsoft OS/2 1.3?!?! It was my understanding at the time that Microsoft had nothing to do with V1.3. For that matter, what does the 'EE' stand for? Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 2 18:45:37 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: MV-III CPU vs RD53 drives In-Reply-To: from "Peter C. Wallace" at Jan 02, 2002 02:35:15 PM Message-ID: <200201030045.g030jbo02513@shell1.aracnet.com> > Actually a _working_ RD53 ought to be worth quite a bit since they are > so rare ;-) > > Peter Wallace > True, but unless you *MUST* use them, and there are reasons why some people must use them, do you really want to trust *YOUR* data to one? I'm sure not about to trust my data to one. Shoot, my free time is to valuable to use one in a system where I'm just playing around with the OS! Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 2 18:47:48 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: MV-III CPU vs RD53 drives In-Reply-To: from "Doc" at Jan 02, 2002 04:37:57 PM Message-ID: <200201030047.g030lmi02569@shell1.aracnet.com> > Well, that's sort of my [untutored] view too, but hey. I guess it's > what you want & when. He's doing strictly PDP stuff, so the VAX boards > are gathering dust. > I also forgot to ask the other pertinent question. Assuming I can > replace the DEQNA ethernet adapter, do I *need* local disks? I'm > thinking a TK50, and a remote filesystem. MFM drives have never tripped > my trigger. > > Doc > Have you got a VAX with SCSI disks such as a VAXstation 3100 or 4000? I seem to recall you do. If so you can simply boot off of it's system disk. If not, try and get an ESDI or SCSI controller (warning, Q-Bus SCSI controllers are expensive). Zane From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jan 2 19:05:53 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:02 2005 Subject: MV-III CPU vs RD53 drives In-Reply-To: <200201030047.g030lmi02569@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200201030047.g030lmi02569@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >Have you got a VAX with SCSI disks such as a VAXstation 3100 or 4000? I >seem to recall you do. If so you can simply boot off of it's system disk. >If not, try and get an ESDI or SCSI controller (warning, Q-Bus SCSI >controllers are expensive). I've got a Dilog ESDI system in my MVII. It originally had two 380MB Maxtor FH drives installed but I pulled one out to keep around as a backup. It seems to be a pretty nice setup. I wouldn't mind finding an ethernet board for it though. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From pcw at mesanet.com Wed Jan 2 19:16:54 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: MV-III CPU vs RD53 drives In-Reply-To: <200201030045.g030jbo02513@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Actually a _working_ RD53 ought to be worth quite a bit since they are > > so rare ;-) > > > > Peter Wallace > > > > True, but unless you *MUST* use them, and there are reasons why some people > must use them, do you really want to trust *YOUR* data to one? I'm sure not > about to trust my data to one. Shoot, my free time is to valuable to use one > in a system where I'm just playing around with the OS! > > Zane > It was a joke... I recently went through a box of about 6 RD53s, trying to find one to fix one gone bad in a Xerox Daybreak, a few worked for a while and then went bad as they all seem to. I ended up tossing all of them, and using Seagate ST4096 instead -- still running (crosses fingers..) Peter Wallace From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jan 2 19:00:13 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: OS/2 1.3 EE In-Reply-To: <200201030042.g030gjX02324@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200201030042.g030gjX02324@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: > > Does anybody have a copy of this? I have MS OS/2 1.3, and I have >> TCP/IP for OS/2 1.3 EE, but they don't work together. I'd love to have >> EE so I can put TCP/IP on it and install the lot on a 286. Maybe I can > > dig up a web server for it. :) > > >Microsoft OS/2 1.3?!?! It was my understanding at the time that Microsoft >had nothing to do with V1.3. For that matter, what does the 'EE' stand for? EE stands for Extended Edition, vice the other version which was Standard Edition, if memory serves correctly. I also believe that it was shortly after the release of 1.2 or 1.3 that MS and IBM went their seperate ways on it, IBM continuing to develope it as OS/2 while MS renamed the shared source code 'Windows NT'. Though the original specs for OS/2 called for at least an 80286, I've never tried running any versions prior to 2.1 (which calls for at least an 80386SX). Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From zaft at azstarnet.com Wed Jan 2 19:23:13 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: OS/2 1.3 EE In-Reply-To: <200201030042.g030gjX02324@shell1.aracnet.com> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020102182241.00ba8cb0@mail.azstarnet.com> At 04:42 PM 1/2/2002 -0800, you wrote: > > Does anybody have a copy of this? I have MS OS/2 1.3, and I have > > TCP/IP for OS/2 1.3 EE, but they don't work together. I'd love to have > > EE so I can put TCP/IP on it and install the lot on a 286. Maybe I can > > dig up a web server for it. :) > > > > Thanks! > > > > --James B. > >Microsoft OS/2 1.3?!?! It was my understanding at the time that Microsoft >had nothing to do with V1.3. For that matter, what does the 'EE' stand for? Microsoft was involved until Warp, I believe. EE was the Extended Edition that IBM did. GZ From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Jan 2 19:36:00 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: OS/2 1.3 EE Message-ID: <18b.15b587b.29650f80@aol.com> In a message dated 1/2/2002 8:07:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, jhellige@earthlink.net writes: << EE stands for Extended Edition, vice the other version which was Standard Edition, if memory serves correctly. I also believe that it was shortly after the release of 1.2 or 1.3 that MS and IBM went their seperate ways on it, IBM continuing to develope it as OS/2 while MS renamed the shared source code 'Windows NT'. Though the original specs for OS/2 called for at least an 80286, I've never tried running any versions prior to 2.1 (which calls for at least an 80386SX). >> OS/2 v 1.3 runs decent on a PS/2 model 60 286-10 with 3 meg. Too had it doesnt have the WPS though. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jan 2 19:51:27 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: OS/2 1.3 EE In-Reply-To: <18b.15b587b.29650f80@aol.com> References: <18b.15b587b.29650f80@aol.com> Message-ID: >OS/2 v 1.3 runs decent on a PS/2 model 60 286-10 with 3 meg. Too had it >doesnt have the WPS though. How different is the interface and such with 1.3? Didn't they make major changes with 2.X? Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From fdebros at verizon.net Wed Jan 2 19:07:45 2002 From: fdebros at verizon.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Ultrix 4.4 and VaxStation 3100 In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467461@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <000201c193f3$0dc1df70$6501a8c0@fred> Netbsd sure, xwindows absolutely not, unless Ragge finished his port. Fred -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of David Woyciesjes Sent: Wednesday, 02 January, 2002 15.56 To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: Ultrix 4.4 and VaxStation 3100 ! From: Jochen Kunz [mailto:jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de] ! ! ! > (assuming X11 worked on ! > the Vaxstation 3100 under Ultrix -- I assume it would.) ! AFAIK the SPX graphics was not supported, only the mono and GPX ! framebuffers. So there is some chance of NetBSD/Xwindows running on my b&w 3100m38? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From fdebros at verizon.net Wed Jan 2 19:14:46 2002 From: fdebros at verizon.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Ultrix 4.4 and VaxStation 3100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601c193f4$089e4d20$6501a8c0@fred> It's THE sore point of the netbsd/vax port and as long as nothing moves there, vaxen go to the dump! So do the mipsen by dec. fred -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Clint Wolff (VAX collector) Sent: Wednesday, 02 January, 2002 17.56 To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: Ultrix 4.4 and VaxStation 3100 The last I heard, NetBSD didn't support any sort of graphics console. Not even as a text only console... Clint On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > ! From: Jochen Kunz [mailto:jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de] > ! > ! > ! > (assuming X11 worked on > ! > the Vaxstation 3100 under Ultrix -- I assume it would.) > ! AFAIK the SPX graphics was not supported, only the mono and GPX > ! framebuffers. > > So there is some chance of NetBSD/Xwindows running on my b&w 3100m38? > > --- David A Woyciesjes > --- C & IS Support Specialist > --- Yale University Press > --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu > --- (203) 432-0953 > --- ICQ # - 905818 > From pcw at mesanet.com Wed Jan 2 19:34:57 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Ultrix 4.4 and VaxStation 3100 In-Reply-To: <000601c193f4$089e4d20$6501a8c0@fred> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Fred deBros wrote: > It's THE sore point of the netbsd/vax port and as long as nothing moves > there, vaxen go to the dump! So do the mipsen by dec. What are you saying about the mipsen? PMAX graphics are well supported by NetBSD including graphics console and X. This has been true for years! TC option cards are not so well supported but at least the PMAGB and PMAGB-B are supported (no accell yet on PMAGB-B AFAIK) and there is experimental support for the PixelStamp based cards. > > fred > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Clint Wolff (VAX > collector) > Sent: Wednesday, 02 January, 2002 17.56 > To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: Ultrix 4.4 and VaxStation 3100 > > > The last I heard, NetBSD didn't support any sort of graphics console. > Not even as a text only console... > > Clint > > On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > ! From: Jochen Kunz [mailto:jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de] > > ! > > ! > > ! > (assuming X11 worked on > > ! > the Vaxstation 3100 under Ultrix -- I assume it would.) > > ! AFAIK the SPX graphics was not supported, only the mono and GPX > > ! framebuffers. > > > > So there is some chance of NetBSD/Xwindows running on my b&w 3100m38? > > > > --- David A Woyciesjes > > --- C & IS Support Specialist > > --- Yale University Press > > --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu > > --- (203) 432-0953 > > --- ICQ # - 905818 > > > > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From at258 at osfn.org Wed Jan 2 19:12:26 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Lucas electrics In-Reply-To: <00a501c193e9$fb8efe40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: Lucas merged with Varity maybe 10 years ago, and is now, I think, part of TRW. Lucas parts are still readily available and are often cheaper than US parts, and nearly always cheaper than Japanese. On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, John Allain wrote: > Can Lucas Still be bad? After decades of bad > press you'd think it'd self correct for the sake > of the Business surviving. > > John A. > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jan 2 19:18:07 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: MCA SCSI 11H3600 Message-ID: <200201030118.g031I7Z32751@narnia.int.dittman.net> I have an MCA SCSI adapter with IBM FRU 11H3600. All I've been able to find out is this is for either an RS/6000 or a PS/2, depending on the firmware. I can't find the reference disk on IBM's web or ftp site, and I can't find any way to tell which firmware is loaded without the reference disk. Can anyone help point me to the file? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From blstuart at bellsouth.net Wed Jan 2 19:57:44 2002 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: Crescent wrenches In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 2 Jan 2002 15:11:22 -0500 . <01e101c193c9$a6924d40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: In message <01e101c193c9$a6924d40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>, "John Allain" writes: >Old Boss of mine called the larger triangular headed >snippers (sim.: Xelite wire cutter) "Dykes". Any word >on this... word. Is this a correct term? I've often called them that, though I always envisioned the spelling as dikes. I just figured it was a sort of contraction of "diagonal cutters." Brian L. Stuart From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 2 20:24:19 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Kaypro PC? In-Reply-To: <00b801c193ed$f3da8080$b4469280@Y5F3Q8> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Robert Schaefer wrote: > Well, I was hoping it'd be a little more interesting, to somebody else > if not to me. I'm debating about pulling one of the 8284a's off of it > to pop into the PC I've been playing with, but I can't hardly bring > myself to pull parts from a operable machine. Not particularly exciting but sufficiently uncommon enough to preserve. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From classiccmp at knm.yi.org Wed Jan 2 20:35:31 2002 From: classiccmp at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020102144714.02ac7fb8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: Hi, > [snippage] [yet more snippage - both above and below] > > >In my garage, we had a box with a 150mm Crescent WANNABE, "rubber nails" > > >(steel nails for nailing rubber weatherstripping), spotted paint (sold in > > >a spray can by GM for repairing trunks), etc. for hazing the new parts > > >runners. > > > >And the all time favorite, ask for the 8/16th socket. > > I always heard it as either the "left-handed" and/or "metric" adjustable > wrench (which here in northern Michigan, seems to be interchangeable with > "Crescent" albeit incorrectly) and in the military (I was a radio/wire dog) > we had "frequency grease" to send others for... My grandad (may he rest in peace), who used to work in a machine shop somehwere, used to recall that they would send the new apprentices down to the basement stores for a packet of #3 skyhooks and a bucket of blue steam, possibly even a long stand (which is enevitably what they got in stores) -- Matt --- Web Page: http://knm.yi.org/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ PGP Key fingerprint = 00BF 19FE D5F5 8EAD 2FD5 D102 260E 8BA7 EEE4 8D7F PGP Key http://knm.yi.org/matt-pgp.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 2 20:46:13 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Lucas electrics In-Reply-To: <00a501c193e9$fb8efe40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, John Allain wrote: > Can Lucas Still be bad? After decades of bad > press you'd think it'd self correct for the sake > of the Business surviving. Can MICROS~1 Still be bad? After decades of bad press you'd think it'd self correct for the sake of the Business surviving. When somebody has a corner on the market, even if not a true "monopoly", they don't always have full incentive to change. From marvin at rain.org Wed Jan 2 21:09:48 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: One More PCB Dishwasher Question References: <20011227150342.26009.qmail@web20810.mail.yahoo.com> <3C2C8D84.C9C822A0@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3C33CB7C.5C251F3C@rain.org> Well, to add my two (or more) cents, putting the boards in a dishwasher is certainly not an insane idea. It would be a good idea though to rinse them in distilled or DI water before drying them. DI water is not an expensive proposition at all. Almost any water company can supply the DI cartridges, and they take care of all the maintenance. The units I used to rent cost about $30.00 per month and would last about a month and IIRC provide several thousand gallons of DI water. I might add our water was (again IIRC) about 12 ppm as far as hardness was concerned. As far as using a home dishwasher, the primary difference between the home and commercial units is how long they are intended to last. A home dishwasher is used by several people I know who own small businesses where it is not given a lot of use and is wholly adequate for their purposes. Bob Shannon wrote: > > Never run boards through a dishwasher! > > This has got to be one of the most insane ideas I've ever heard. > > Commercial PCB's do get washed, but only after the water has > been deionized with some rather expensive and high maintainance > equipment. > > I'm quite sure that manufacturers don't go through the expense of > maintaining > this gear if your maytag washer could do the job. > > Lots of domestic water supplies have 'hard water' and.or high mineral > content > that will dammage or destroy your boards. Maybe not while they are in > the > washer, but corrosion may set in later. > > lee courtney wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > The thread on cleaning cards by running them through > > the dishwasher was timely as I am resurrecting an > > HP3000/XE. The system came from Pacific Pipe in > > Oakland and is the *filthest* system I have ever seen. > > The "computer room" on the second floor was left open > > to the work yard and all matter of dirt, dust, grime > > etc was sucked into the CPU, disc drive and tape. The > > CPU boards literally had a layer of grime covering > > them. > > > > Of course since this was an HP box it booted right up > > even though it was basically "clogged". > > > > Many of the HP cards have paper stickers indicating > > part number, revision, etc. Any thoughts on preserving > > these through a dishwasher cycle? Or should I just > > gently hand rinse? THanks! > > > > Lee Courtney > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > > http://greetings.yahoo.com From rschaefe at gcfn.org Wed Jan 2 21:15:47 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Kaypro PC? References: Message-ID: <01c601c19404$f0c35e00$b4469280@Y5F3Q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 09:24 PM Subject: Re: Kaypro PC? > On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Robert Schaefer wrote: > > > Well, I was hoping it'd be a little more interesting, to somebody else > > if not to me. I'm debating about pulling one of the 8284a's off of it > > to pop into the PC I've been playing with, but I can't hardly bring > > myself to pull parts from a operable machine. > > Not particularly exciting but sufficiently uncommon enough to preserve. 'Bout what I thought. Well, unless I come up with something to do with 'er, I'll dust it off and stick it back in storage until such time as someone has a burning desire to own one. Bob > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jan 2 21:32:58 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: new email newsletter for classic computing buffs In-Reply-To: <00e901c193a5$a8288800$0b01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> from Michael Nadeau at "Jan 2, 2 10:53:43 am" Message-ID: <200201030332.TAA26414@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > As early as next week, I will launch the Classic Tech Eletter. It is a free, > twice-monthly newsletter with short news items on vintage computing > resources, collections, rescues, sales of important systems, and events. The > eletter's audience is primarily folks who have an interest in collecting > and/or preserving vintage systems. What about people writing software for them, particularly commercial titles? (And what about your book? :-P) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Adore, v.: To venerate expectantly. -- Ambrose Bierce ---------------------- From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 2 21:43:16 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: MV-III CPU vs RD53 drives In-Reply-To: from "Peter C. Wallace" at Jan 02, 2002 05:16:54 PM Message-ID: <200201030343.g033hGe09228@shell1.aracnet.com> > > On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > Actually a _working_ RD53 ought to be worth quite a bit since they are > > > so rare ;-) > > > > > > Peter Wallace > > > > > > > True, but unless you *MUST* use them, and there are reasons why some people > > must use them, do you really want to trust *YOUR* data to one? I'm sure not > > about to trust my data to one. Shoot, my free time is to valuable to use one > > in a system where I'm just playing around with the OS! > > > > Zane > > > > It was a joke... > > I recently went through a box of about 6 RD53s, trying to find one to fix > one gone bad in a Xerox Daybreak, a few worked for a while and then went > bad as they all seem to. I ended up tossing all of them, and using Seagate > ST4096 instead -- still running (crosses fingers..) > > Peter Wallace Actually it isn't a joke. They actually are quite valuable. Zane From allain at panix.com Wed Jan 2 22:00:52 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: MV-III CPU vs RD53 drives References: Message-ID: <004401c1940b$3d14a9c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > I recently went through a box of about 6 RD53s, trying to find one > to fix one gone bad in a Xerox Daybreak, a few worked for a while > and then went bad as they all seem to. I ended up tossing all of > them, and using Seagate ST4096 instead q1: is the ST4096 Hd/Cy/Sct compatible with the RD53? q2: Do the RD52's, RD54's have this flaw too? (I have 4 RDxx'es, no 53's) Are these suckers all Quantums? q3: What's the biggest flaw with these, non-autopark damage? John A. From pcw at mesanet.com Wed Jan 2 23:19:18 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: MV-III CPU vs RD53 drives In-Reply-To: <004401c1940b$3d14a9c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, John Allain wrote: > > I recently went through a box of about 6 RD53s, trying to find one > > to fix one gone bad in a Xerox Daybreak, a few worked for a while > > and then went bad as they all seem to. I ended up tossing all of > > them, and using Seagate ST4096 instead > > q1: is the ST4096 Hd/Cy/Sct compatible with the RD53? Has one more head than RD53 (Micropolis 1325) whether its compatible other than that (ignoring that last head) I dont know. Just happens to be one of the MFM drives the Daybreak supports > q2: Do the RD52's, RD54's have this flaw too? Dont think so, RD54's are Maxtor, Ive had much better luck with them. Dont think Ive ever had a RD52 > (I have 4 RDxx'es, no 53's) > Are these suckers all Quantums? > q3: What's the biggest flaw with these, non-autopark damage? According to some information I googled for (www-2.cs.cmu.edu/People/jmcm/info/rd53fix3.txt), the problem with RD53 -- Micropolis 1325 is that the head stop bumper (probably urethane rubber) gets sticky so the head servo can't move the head from the rest position once the drive gets up to speed. This causes the observed symptoms: the drive spins up and then shuts down. Supposedly this can be fixed by opening the drive and placing a piece of paper on the sticky rubber stop. Ive actually tried this but had no success. One drive (with the same symptoms) I managed to salvage (because the information was important) by swapping the circuit card, so there may be more than one failure mode... > > John A. > > Peter Wallace From allain at panix.com Wed Jan 2 21:47:12 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Lucas electrics References: Message-ID: <003c01c19409$544e03e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Can MICROS~1 Still be bad? After decades of > bad press you'd think it'd self correct for the sake > of the Business surviving. Some said that the DOJ case wouldnt've moved if it wasn't for so many Americans getting burned with bad MS bug experiences. There was some change in the official MS bullspeak this year. I think Bill started claiming that his goal all along was to be the low cost leader, with implied cost in quality. And with Xp they're saying that the quality problems of 98&me are things of the past. Now THAT I don't believe for a second. John A. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 2 22:00:37 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Lucas electrics In-Reply-To: <20020102055344.MTV21559.femail45.sdc1.sfba.home.com@BENCHBOX> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jan 2002 UberTechnoid@Home.com wrote: > Why don't the British make a television set? > Drum Roll....................... > They can't figure out how to make it leak oil Now, now. British vehicles don't ALWAYS leak oil. In fact, there are two periods of time when they don't leak at all! Before the first oil is put in, and after it has ALL leaked out. But they have "style". They are WAY more fun than American cars. From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jan 2 21:48:03 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: MCA SCSI 11H3600 In-Reply-To: <200201030118.g031I7Z32751@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > I have an MCA SCSI adapter with IBM FRU 11H3600. All I've been > able to find out is this is for either an RS/6000 or a PS/2, > depending on the firmware. I can't find the reference disk on > IBM's web or ftp site, and I can't find any way to tell which > firmware is loaded without the reference disk. That's Feature Code 2415 in the RS/6000 world. You can get RS/6000 microcode updates at http://www.rs6000.ibm.com/support/micro/download.html#adapter and info at http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/pseries/library/hardware_docs/index.html the SA38-0533-06 pdf. I didn't find anything at all showing that card to work in a PS/2. The fact that it has an RS/6000 FRU # means it probably has RS6k microcode. Probably none of that's what you wanted to know. :( Doc From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jan 2 22:26:20 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: MCA SCSI 11H3600 In-Reply-To: from "Doc" at Jan 02, 2002 09:48:03 PM Message-ID: <200201030426.g034QKi00705@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > I have an MCA SCSI adapter with IBM FRU 11H3600. All I've been > > able to find out is this is for either an RS/6000 or a PS/2, > > depending on the firmware. I can't find the reference disk on > > IBM's web or ftp site, and I can't find any way to tell which > > firmware is loaded without the reference disk. > > That's Feature Code 2415 in the RS/6000 world. You can get > RS/6000 microcode updates at > http://www.rs6000.ibm.com/support/micro/download.html#adapter and info > at > http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/pseries/library/hardware_docs/index.html > the SA38-0533-06 pdf. > I didn't find anything at all showing that card to work in a PS/2. The > fact that it has an RS/6000 FRU # means it probably has RS6k microcode. > Probably none of that's what you wanted to know. :( I found a mention of two different ID codes for the card on Google, but the posting also mentioned having to install the card to find out which firmware is loaded. Without the disk, there's no way to tell. If this is indeed the RS/6000 version, I won't need it and would be willing to trade for a PS/2 SCSI card (or maybe some other MCA card). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Jan 2 22:17:04 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: OS/2 1.3 EE Message-ID: In a message dated 1/2/2002 8:58:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, jhellige@earthlink.net writes: << >OS/2 v 1.3 runs decent on a PS/2 model 60 286-10 with 3 meg. Too had it >doesnt have the WPS though. How different is the interface and such with 1.3? Didn't they make major changes with 2.X? >> it kinda looks like win3.1 in a twisted way except you dont have the program manager window. not many icons at all either. 2.x was a big change in the way it looks. OS/2 trivia: OS/2 had a 'start' command before micros~1 used it in the version after 3.1 ! -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jan 2 22:21:01 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find References: Message-ID: <002c01c1940e$0d936120$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The key difference between the Cresecent Wrench matter and the "Centronics" connector term applied to SCSI or anything else, is that (a) it is ALWAYS both wrong and misleading when applied to the SCSI, and (b) because it was never a Centronics product, hence, the name is not applicable. Using the term Centronics when referring to that "type" of connector is misleading, since the 36-pin connector was never used for SCSI and the 50-pin was never used for the Centronics parallel port. The only printer I ever saw with that 50-pin BlueRibbon connector was the Diablo 630 API. (? ... was that the designator) I still have one of the cables. Crescent Tool Company made at least a few of those wrenches, since I have one or more bearing their name. Centronics NEVER made the connector, in any size. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" To: "Classic Computer" Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 11:03 AM Subject: Re: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find > >This is a grey issue. Brand names often become generic. I bet when you > >want an "aspirin" you don't ask for a "pain reliever" or > >"analgesic", and, unless you are a polymer chemist, what would you call > >"styrofoam" other than "styrofoam"? Examples abound: > >Kleenex, Band-aid, Thermos (from King-Sealy Thermos), Frisbee, etc. The > >purpose of language is to communicate with precision, and > >sometimes the most precise way is to use the "common usage" term. You > >would sound pretty preposterous asking someone to toss you > >that "plastic flying disc." > > Ok.. THANK YOU... this is the whole point. Crescent Wrench, Yo-Yo, > Centronics... it matters not what the "correct" name is... what matters > is that people understand what you are talking about, and that means, > sometimes the "common name" takes over. > > Why is it that when it comes to a wrench, people can understand this, but > when it comes to connectors they get their underwear in a bunch? My guess > is, for the same reason I see red every time someone pulls out a video > camera and says "let me film this"... it is TAPE damnit not film... to > "normal" people, this makes no difference, to someone that spent years > working in TV, it makes all the difference in the world (and if confused > when talking about going on location for a shoot, you could wind up with > a radically different set of equipment). > > -chris > > > > From fernande at internet1.net Wed Jan 2 23:27:35 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printerfind References: Message-ID: <3C33EBC7.59872A1F@internet1.net> Blue steam? I've never heard of telling someone being told a certain color of steam. Never heard the Skyhooks line either. You do know that in order to get a bucket of steam, you have to catch the steam first. A steam trap is typically used. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Matt London wrote: > My grandad (may he rest in peace), who used to work in a machine shop > somehwere, used to recall that they would send the new apprentices down to > the basement stores for a packet of #3 skyhooks and a bucket of blue > steam, possibly even a long stand (which is enevitably what they got in > stores) > > -- Matt From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 2 23:39:19 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: MV-III CPU vs RD53 drives In-Reply-To: from "John Allain" at Jan 02, 2002 11:00:52 PM Message-ID: <200201030539.g035dJc13402@shell1.aracnet.com> > q2: Do the RD52's, RD54's have this flaw too? > (I have 4 RDxx'es, no 53's) > Are these suckers all Quantums? > John A. Both the RD52's and RD54's have proven to be pretty good drives, especially considering their age. Basically the RD53 is the only lemon. Zane From donm at cts.com Wed Jan 2 23:39:35 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Lucas electrics (was: RE: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Chris Kennedy wrote: > Tony Duell wrote: > > [stuff deleted] > > > So my experience suggests that Lucas stuff is pretty reliable. > > I think it depends on vintage. More recent is decidedly better > than older. My experiences include: > > - Multiple defective ignition amplifiers on an early series III V12 > E-type. > > - Lack of suitable snubbers on the cooling fan relays on an early > (like number three in the US) XJ12, resulting in overtemp problems > in the middle of nowhere (jumper around the fried relay and limp > home). > > - Multiple regulator failures with accompanying battery cook-off > (no failure warnings other than sulfuric acid fumes filling > the car) in the same XJ12. > > - A trashed engine in a 4.2 E type owing to the incredibly long > integration time of the Lucas thermally-driven oil pressure > gauge (blew a rear oil seal [not hard to do] on a twisty road; > leaked enough oil to unport the oil pick up on the corners > but never had any indication that I was losing oil pressure > because the gauge had a response time measured in seconds) > > - Easily out-driven headlights on a 3.8 E type. While other > vehicles of the same vintage had reasonably bright lights, > the best one could hope for out of the Jag was a warm brownish > glow. > > There were other, to-be-expected items, like the incredibly > nasty Bendix on the 3.8 starter, worn brushes on the 3.8 > starter, a worn-out washer fluid motor (attached to a > _glass_ fluid reservoir), worn points on the wiper motor. > > There was once a piece in AutoWeek, back in the 80's, wherein > one of the writers discussed how those of us who drove > British cars learned to tuck in behind large trucks on dark, > stormy nights, because while people would have a hard time > seeing the feeble glow of our tail lights (driven by > "Second String Electrons", rather than "Robust Detroit > Electrons"), they'd at least see the bright lights of the > trailer and _probably_ not drive up the ass-end of our cars. > I finally addressed the problem by hacking in a Delco internally > regulated alternator (which was a lot of fun on a positive-ground > vehicle). > > > -- > Chris Kennedy > chris@mainecoon.com > http://www.mainecoon.com > PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 > Well, the solution to your problems is at hand! Pick yourself up a new Ford in a Jaguar suit - 'course it will be an eight vice twelve - and all of those problems will doubtless be gone. There is, however, the high risk that it will roll over on you as do some of Ford's other vaunted products. Fairness dictates that I acknowledge that I was quite happy with my "International car" - a Mazda in a Mercury suit made in Mexico. - don From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 2 23:52:05 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: KIM-1 (was Re: Cheap Video cookbooks and machines WTD) In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E587A0A4@MAIL10> Message-ID: <20020103055205.86625.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Cini, Richard" wrote: > Ethan: > > I may actually have a copy of the Cheap Video Cookbook that I got > with the TVT6 board for the KIM that I have (unbuilt in the package -- > it's killing me). Is it black with a multi-color image on the front? Yes. My Cookbook looks like that. I have a TVT-6 that I purchased and assembled in high-school. Never powered it on. After I got it, I couldn't convince my mother to let me mod a TV set. She freaked out at the idea of me cutting into something with *voltage* in it! What I don't have is "Son of Cheap Video" -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From at258 at osfn.org Wed Jan 2 23:53:52 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Lucas electrics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Anyone who is concerned with British engine oil leakage has certainly never encountered the Detroit Diesel 200.000 mile oil change interval, or why it was established. On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Wed, 2 Jan 2002 UberTechnoid@Home.com wrote: > > Why don't the British make a television set? > > Drum Roll....................... > > They can't figure out how to make it leak oil > > Now, now. > British vehicles don't ALWAYS leak oil. > In fact, there are two periods of time when they don't leak at all! > Before the first oil is put in, and after it has ALL leaked out. > > But they have "style". They are WAY more fun than American cars. > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From Golemancd at aol.com Thu Jan 3 00:01:25 2002 From: Golemancd at aol.com (Golemancd@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment Message-ID: <169.69122e0.29654db5@aol.com> i agree u shouldnt try and read it doesnt matter anyway ps notice no capitals and not punctuation Joee From Golemancd at aol.com Thu Jan 3 00:06:28 2002 From: Golemancd at aol.com (Golemancd@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment Message-ID: <150.6a81bde.29654ee4@aol.com> sometimes i forget that computer folks r technical people. i come from the arts where the only thing that is needed is understanding. i am on stage sometimes and all the musicians do is just nod or look at each other and everyone understands them. will try and and be more precise. i guess here that is needed. joee From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jan 3 00:21:10 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: MCA SCSI 11H3600 References: Message-ID: <3C33F856.D893FB93@internet1.net> I don't understand. How do you get feature code 2415? 2415 indicates FRU 93H8817 or 93H8814 if I follow the 1st link you provide. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Doc wrote: > > On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > I have an MCA SCSI adapter with IBM FRU 11H3600. All I've been > > able to find out is this is for either an RS/6000 or a PS/2, > > depending on the firmware. I can't find the reference disk on > > IBM's web or ftp site, and I can't find any way to tell which > > firmware is loaded without the reference disk. > > That's Feature Code 2415 in the RS/6000 world. You can get > RS/6000 microcode updates at > http://www.rs6000.ibm.com/support/micro/download.html#adapter and info > at > http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/pseries/library/hardware_docs/index.html > the SA38-0533-06 pdf. > I didn't find anything at all showing that card to work in a PS/2. The > fact that it has an RS/6000 FRU # means it probably has RS6k microcode. > Probably none of that's what you wanted to know. :( > > Doc From rhblakeman at kih.net Thu Jan 3 00:25:06 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Kaypro PC? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020102082850.00b21e80@popmail.ltsp.com> Message-ID: Exactly what I had remembered, after I dropped the note about the pushbutton )old age makes me remember things a day after I try to remember it anymore). -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Lowell Kinzer Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 12:07 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Kaypro PC? At 10:51 AM 1/1/2002 -0500, Robert Schaefer wrote: >I'm looking for info on one of these. I's some kind of XT clone, with an >eight-bit passive backplane and an upgraded V20 on a CPU card. It runs >MSDOS, and >currently boots into dosshell. A little googling turns up numerous resumes >containing Kaypro PC, and a number of old classiccmp posts regarding them, >but no real info. kaypro.com seems to be down ATM. I'd especially like to >know what the switch and pushbutton on the back of the CPU card do. IIRC >it's not a reset button, but I might be mis-remembering. > >Bob The switch toggles the processor speed (down is 4.77 MHz, up is 10 MHz). The push button is the reset button. Lowell Kinzer lkinzer@sciti.com From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Thu Jan 3 01:23:03 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: VMS 6.1 S/W Kit In-Reply-To: <02Jan2.135539est.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> References: <20020102185257.A27048@xs4all.nl> <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662CF@exc-reo1> <20020102161004.56327.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> <20020102185257.A27048@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020103182109.023a92e8@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 01:40 PM 2/01/2002 -0400, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Page 60 of the book also shows that VMS V4.1, introduced Sept. > 1984, was the first version to support the MicroVAX I/II processors. It > also suggests that it was the first version to support VAXclusters. I think VAX/VMS 3.7 had support for clusters (from what I heard from someone here in Australia trying to set up a cluster using this version, it might not actually have worked though). I didn't get to build my first cluster until later (I had one of the first LAVCs here in Australia - well before the documentation stopped talking about CI). Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 3 01:39:31 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: <150.6a81bde.29654ee4@aol.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Jan 2002 Golemancd@aol.com wrote: > sometimes i forget that computer folks r technical people. > i come from the arts where the only thing that is needed is > understanding. Without meaning, there can be no understanding. Without proper punctuation, grammar, syntax, and spelling, there can be no meaning. Without education, there can be no proper punctuation, grammar, syntax, and spelling. > i am on stage sometimes and all the musicians do is > just nod or look at each other and everyone understands them. > will try and and be more precise. i guess here that is needed. Yeah. You can't just nod here and expect people to understand you. Unfortunately, nobody can see you nod through e-mail. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From GOOI at oce.nl Thu Jan 3 01:48:07 2002 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: backdoor account for Micro/RSX ? --> follow-up, a bit long Message-ID: Hi all. Well, what Johnny proposed works almost, but the information was useful enough to get in. He's the story of yesterday eve. ^Z will pop up the time/date prompt again. Hitting ^C gives the DCL> prompt. When you enter RUN $ACNT (without the CR because I was re-reading the e-mail from Johnny again), the system appends ^U after some 30 seconds and asks again for the time and date. Again ^C, followed by RUN $ACNT and now with the CR, gives the response "MCR -- Task active" and the time and date prompt reappears. So I hit ^Z (according to my notes when I am typing this, but now I am not sure whether it was ^Z or ^C, followed by a CR. To my surprise the screen blanks and the top line shows: *** Micro/RSX Account File Maintenance Utility *** Account file is now sorted by UIC Account Utility options are: Using the List option it shows just two accounts: Owner=[001,010] L_name=MICRO Login_defaults=SY00:[SYSMGR] Password=(ENCRYPTED) Def_CLI=DCL F_name= Account=#1 Total_logins=39 Session ID=PRV Characteristics=NOSlave Last_login=14-FEB-97 13:41:51 NODef_Protection Def_dir_string NOSilent Owner=[201,001] L_name=USER Login_defaults=SY00:[USER] Password=(ENCRYPTED) Def_CLI=DCL F_name=A.NEW Account=#0 Total_logins=0 Session ID=USR Characteristics=NOSlave Last_login=None NODef_Protection Def_dir_string NOSilent So, it appears as if the user of this system has always used the priveleged account. With the Modify option I changed the password to supervisor and the I terminated the utility. Guess what? The account MICRO/SUPERVISOR lets me in! This shows up: Micro/RSX V3.1 BL24C [1,54] System MICROD 2-JAN-02 20:24 Logged on Terminal TT0: as PRV1 Good Evening ****************************************** * Welcome to Micro/RSX * * Version 3.1 Base level 24C * * This is file LB:[1,2]LOGIN.TXT * ****************************************** $ @LB:[1,2]SYSLOGIN.CMD $@ $ I entered "SHOW DEV" and this is the result: TT0: [SYSMGR] [1,10] Logged in Loaded TT1: Loaded TT2: Loaded TT3: Loaded TT4: Loaded TT5: Loaded VT0: Loaded VT1: Loaded RD0: Loaded DU0: Public Mounted Loaded Label=MICRODRSX Type=RD53 Cached DU1: Loaded Type=RX50 DU2: Loaded Type=RX50 DU3: Offline Loaded Type=unknown MU0: Loaded Type=TK50 NL0: Loaded TI0: CO0: NL0: CL0: NL0: SP0: DU0: LB0: DU0: SY0: DU0: I do not know what DU3: could have been. MU0: is recognized because the controller is in the system, I presume. At the rear a 3-row, many (50?) pins male "D"-connector is fitted. I will open the box this evening. Here are some questions aI have. Is Micro/RSX 3.1 an old version? It accepts 2002 without any problem. Are there special things to look for? What commands do I need to get the information about the system? I want to add a DELQA. Can this be placed in any slot? I finished the proper way: "RUN [1,54]SHUTUP". That's what I am doing now. The mail is long enough. - Henk. From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 3 09:13:51 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: NEXT Color Printer find References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146745F@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <001601c19469$4084b380$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> One of ADAPTEC's more successful items in the mid-'80's was their "Nodem," which was a SCSI <=> ETHERNET bridge box. There are also plenty of ETHERNET <=> printer port devices about. If you combined those, perhaps that would do what you need without trying to whittle it yourself. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Woyciesjes" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 1:32 PM Subject: RE: NEXT Color Printer find > ! From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] > ! > ! > ! On Sun, 30 Dec 2001, Robert Schaefer wrote: > ! > ! > I would imagine it was to talk to the printer. IIRC early Macs used > ! > SCSI printers, too. Pretty neat. I wonder how hard a SCSI <-> > ! > parallel interface would be to build. > ! > ! I seem to remember seeing a few companies offer these kinds > ! of bridges, > ! but I doubt they would work for anything other then a printer. > > I have here on my desk, an UNused Hewlett Packard 88395 SCSI/Parallel > Interface. With it's power supply. :-) Need any more info? Like what's > inside? > > ! I have a SCSI <-> ethernet bridge around here somewhere. I > ! think it was > ! made for older Macs that lacked nubus or another means of > ! expansion. It > ! reports itself as a disk device, but I haven't done much with it yet. > > That's a neat thing. Do you remember who the manufacturer is? > > --- David A Woyciesjes > --- C & IS Support Specialist > --- Yale University Press > --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu > --- (203) 432-0953 > --- ICQ # - 905818 > > From Golemancd at aol.com Thu Jan 3 03:51:10 2002 From: Golemancd at aol.com (Golemancd@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment Message-ID: <136.6bf349d.2965838e@aol.com> This is becoming a pretty silly thread because there can be understanding without proper grammer ; if we are being technical here. Sure there is meaning, u just dont understand it. The real story here is this is pretty much a none issue since what i am saying and pretty much what everyone is saying here, is just to enjoy a hobby. To worry about someones ideas to the point that it bothers u defeats the purpose of a hobby; to have fun or to enjoy yourself. If you cant understand something ; it doesnt matter. This is not a business or the F.B.I ; it is just a hobby. I get your point. I do use a lot of shorthand and because this is a hobby i dont focus very much on my grammer. If u see me post then dont read it. That is all that i have to say about this matter. joee P.S i hope the grammer helps you understand this. From at258 at osfn.org Thu Jan 3 07:47:57 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: <136.6bf349d.2965838e@aol.com> Message-ID: Proper grammer promotes better understanding. After all, even a monkey can sometimes make himself understood, even without language or grammar, and you're better than that, aren't you? Think of it this way - You're on stage, looking at a script and discover the stage directions simply say maybe. This might, in certain situations be appropriate, but generally, it will only leave confusion. That's the point everyone is trying to make. you shouldn't feel so sensitive about it. Also, you're not the only non-technical person here. just relax and learn to enjoy the discussions which are often trenchant and very involved. On Thu, 3 Jan 2002 Golemancd@aol.com wrote: > This is becoming a pretty silly thread because there can be > understanding > without proper grammer ; if we are being technical here. Sure there is > meaning, > u just dont understand it. > The real story here is this is pretty much a none issue since what i > am saying and pretty much what everyone is saying here, is just to enjoy a > hobby. To worry about someones ideas to the point that it bothers u defeats > the purpose of a hobby; to have fun or to enjoy yourself. If you cant > understand something ; it doesnt matter. This is not a business or the F.B.I > ; it is just a hobby. > I get your point. I do use a lot of shorthand and because this is a > hobby > i dont focus very much on my grammer. If u see me post then dont read it. > That is all that i have to say about this matter. > > joee > > P.S i hope the grammer helps you understand this. > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Jan 3 07:19:46 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: References: <150.6a81bde.29654ee4@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020103071732.022d3aa8@pc> At 11:39 PM 1/2/2002 -0800, Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Thu, 3 Jan 2002 Golemancd@aol.com wrote: > >> sometimes i forget that computer folks r technical people. >> i come from the arts where the only thing that is needed is >> understanding. > >Without meaning, there can be no understanding. Without proper >punctuation, grammar, syntax, and spelling, there can be no meaning. >Without education, there can be no proper punctuation, grammar, syntax, >and spelling. But Joe, feel free to swear like a sailor or shout real loud if someone isn't getting it. >> i am on stage sometimes and all the musicians do is >> just nod or look at each other and everyone understands them. >> will try and and be more precise. i guess here that is needed. > >Yeah. You can't just nod here and expect people to understand you. >Unfortunately, nobody can see you nod through e-mail. And keep in mind that the musicians only *think* they're communicating. :-) Insert drummer joke here. - John From at258 at osfn.org Thu Jan 3 07:37:21 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Language is a precision tool, one sufficiently flexible that both artists and technicians can use it. In the absence of a suitable knife, it can even be used to gut gits. On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 3 Jan 2002 Golemancd@aol.com wrote: > > > sometimes i forget that computer folks r technical people. > > i come from the arts where the only thing that is needed is > > understanding. > > Without meaning, there can be no understanding. Without proper > punctuation, grammar, syntax, and spelling, there can be no meaning. > Without education, there can be no proper punctuation, grammar, syntax, > and spelling. > > > i am on stage sometimes and all the musicians do is > > just nod or look at each other and everyone understands them. > > will try and and be more precise. i guess here that is needed. > > Yeah. You can't just nod here and expect people to understand you. > Unfortunately, nobody can see you nod through e-mail. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Thu Jan 3 08:19:45 2002 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment Message-ID: > >P.S i hope the grammer helps you understand this. ^^^^^^^ GRAMMAR SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From msell at ontimesupport.com Thu Jan 3 08:48:05 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: <150.6a81bde.29654ee4@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103084026.02f75f60@127.0.0.1> It's not that people here are snooty and require proper English to post to the list, it's just that run-on sentences with improper grammar and no punctuation and capitalization is a real pain in the ass to read. It also makes the reader assume (sometimes wrongly...) that the person posting the message is a complete idiot, and advice, suggestions, and answers will not be understood when given. This is a technical group, and speaking for myself, it's hoped by the person giving advice that the recipient of the advice will be able to utilize it without asking questions like: "where is the power switch?". I'm not going to make any assumptions regarding your education level or intelligence, but what you write and how you write it does give an impression on the receiving end. God knows my English isn't perfect...... : ) - Matt At 01:06 AM 1/3/2002 -0500, you wrote: >sometimes i forget that computer folks r technical people. >i come from the arts where the only thing that is needed is >understanding. >i am on stage sometimes and all the musicians do is >just nod or look at each other and everyone understands them. >will try and and be more precise. i guess here that is needed. > >joee Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 3 09:29:26 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103084026.02f75f60@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <006601c1946b$6e1eac40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Your first sentence is an excellent example of a run-on sentence. However, you forgot to allude to the lack of agreement in number between the subject and verb of the second (run-on) clause. In point of fact, it is really easy to assume that the person who doesn't (suggesting that he can't) write clearly and correctly doesn't know, in general, what he's writing about. That may or may not be the case, but it doesn't shore-up confidence in his poorly constructed remarks. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Sell" To: Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 7:48 AM Subject: Re: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment > > > It's not that people here are snooty and require proper English to post to > the list, it's just that run-on sentences with improper grammar and no > punctuation and capitalization is a real pain in the ass to read. > > It also makes the reader assume (sometimes wrongly...) that the person > posting the message is a complete idiot, and advice, suggestions, and > answers will not be understood when given. This is a technical group, and > speaking for myself, it's hoped by the person giving advice that the > recipient of the advice will be able to utilize it without asking questions > like: "where is the power switch?". > > I'm not going to make any assumptions regarding your education level or > intelligence, but what you write and how you write it does give an > impression on the receiving end. > > God knows my English isn't perfect...... : ) > > > - Matt > > > > At 01:06 AM 1/3/2002 -0500, you wrote: > >sometimes i forget that computer folks r technical people. > >i come from the arts where the only thing that is needed is > >understanding. > >i am on stage sometimes and all the musicians do is > >just nod or look at each other and everyone understands them. > >will try and and be more precise. i guess here that is needed. > > > >joee > > > > Matthew Sell > Programmer > On Time Support, Inc. > www.ontimesupport.com > (281) 296-6066 > > Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! > http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi > > > "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad > "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler > > Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 3 09:16:30 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment References: Message-ID: <002001c19469$9f4bb3a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Get used to it, folks ... it's that "text-messaging" mentality taking over. It's where kids who can't read and write are trying to send messages in text on their cellphones, since they don't really have anything to say, either. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 1:35 PM Subject: Re: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment > >On Mon, 31 Dec 2001 Golemancd@aol.com wrote: > > > >> i agree about the os but i dont agree on the attempt part > >> dont attempt it. do it. a computer is not that complex of a machine > >> at least a pc. an os is all theory and vision. > >> u can think up an entire os away from any pc. > >> u could then just go in and code the entire thing. > >> the hard part is thinking up what it is that u want > >> and how it has to work. the coding and so forth > >> is the easy part. this is the exact project i am working > >> on now > > > >Can we please have complete sentences, some capitalization, proper > >grammatical structure and standard punctuation please? It's not even > >worth my time to try to make sense of this chicken scratch. > > > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > > I've got to agree with this 100%, that mess is painful to try and read. > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > > From vaxman at earthlink.net Thu Jan 3 09:49:02 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:03 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: <169.69122e0.29654db5@aol.com> Message-ID: Not to interrupt Sellam's latest flame war, but... I scan most emails to decide if I am going to read it or not. Without capitals and punctuation, it is impossible to scan, so your messages will be deleted without being read. Is this your problem, my problem, or not a problem at all. It is your problem if you have a question, and I have the answer. This isn't serious if someone else on the list has the answer, and the willingness to read unformatted emails. It is my problem if you offer some piece of equipment that I want, and I delete the email without reading it. Your subject line caught my eye and I read Sellam's first reply to it... So, the question is: Do you wish to reach the entire mailing list, or only those people willing to exert the extra effort required to read your postings? Clint On Thu, 3 Jan 2002 Golemancd@aol.com wrote: > i agree u shouldnt try and read it > doesnt matter anyway > > ps notice no capitals and not punctuation > > Joee > From CAA007216 at mail.ono.es Thu Jan 3 04:51:27 2002 From: CAA007216 at mail.ono.es (Sergio Pedraja Cabo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Dilog DQ614 diagnostics program first tests Message-ID: <2f53212f5d2a.2f5d2a2f5321@ono.com> Hello everybody and Happy New Year (if applicable). I did the first tests with the DQ614P.SAV program and my Dilog DQ614 MFM controller board. This board simulates up to four RL01/02 units in one PDP-11 using one or two MFM hard disks. I am using: * One PDP-11/23 PLUS with 128 Kwords of memory * One PC connected to the second SLU simulating one TU58 double unit (thanks, Will Kranz !) * One Dilog DQ614 Revision S * One Quantum MFM Hard Disk Q540 (Aka. RD52-A) * RT-11 v.4 Environment tips: * I have configured the Dilog board to work under one PDP-11/23 PLUS like the manual suggest. * I did the probes simulating one up to four emulated RL02/01 disks. * I assume the vector addresses of the unit is 174400 and 160. The software used is the DQ614P.SAV diagnostics program Revision 0, and one DL.SYS driver that came with the DQ614P program. Well, the program starts ok. There is no apparently problem with the OS environment. It works with its DL.SYS module, with the own DL.SYS module of the RT11 V.4, and without it too. The program startup and asks me if I'm working with a C.R.T (I assume it speaks about a terminal). Later the program asks me about the access vector for the controller. By default it uses 174400 and 160 values. I assume them too. The next step is to select one MFM hard disk. My disk is the 73, one Quantum Q540. Inmediately, the program permits me to select how much DL disks I want to emulate. I can emulate two RL02 and two RL01. The program asks me: "Are you sure ?". My answer is yes. The process begins... and some seconds later, the program send me a message telling: "UNEXPECTED RESPONSE IN ADDRESS 00000160 (sometimes is the address 00000000). I've tried to change the cable selection, the address selection, etc... In this case, the message tells me that the unit can't be accessed. Like a final indication, the Q540 hard disk have 5 jumpers named DS1, DS2, DS3, DS4 and ^. Actually is selected the DS1. What is wrong ? I suspect that the program must be the same revision than the board (Revision "O" the program, revision "S" the board). If somebody can supply it to me, I'll agree a lot. Any other suggestion about the vector address, etc, are welcome. Thanks and Greetings Sergio From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 3 04:52:15 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find References: <200201020410.g024APo29452@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3C3437DF.EEF57049@verizon.net> > so the oft-mentioned $600 hammer was maybe > out of a lot of five or some hammers). And maybe made out of controlled material ( subsafe? MC-I, or was it MC-III, I forget ) traced back to when the ore was dug out of the ground, inspection, metallurgical analysis and documentation through every step of the refining and raw material production. Requiring patterns to be made in the foundry and retained for x number of years? With machining required on CNC machines? With NDT testing? and every step in the manufacturing process, documented, inspected, etc. Warehouses set up and people hired to retain and maintain the paper? But perhaps it is needed for use in an application where if something went wrong with it ( say a hammer chipped and a piece of foreign material got into a very, very expensive ( million dollar? ) set of reduction gears ) could cause the loss of mega bucks. You are probably one of the few that understands things are not always as simple as the uninformed think they are, and that is a complement to your "awareness" and "openmindedness". Yes a hammer might cost $600 if you have extremely special requirements for that hammer. And toilet seats can cost bunches of money too if the requirements require special "tooling" ( forming dies, etc. ) be manufactured to produce, in limited quantity, the special toilet seat needed that is unlike anything found in the hardware store. I think the toilet seats on a submarine are formed stainless steel, and on each submarine ( of which there are only a limited number ) there are only a certain number of toilets ( limited space on submarines ). Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > So are you going to be the one to post a link, or are you going to make > > > everyone search for themselves? > > > > Being a MIL standard, you will need to go to a (big) library to get it. > > For some reason, these handy things refuse to show up on the web. > > I used to have access to the complete MIL STD library. There's a MIL STD for > toilet paper (including testing) and toothpicks, to name a couple. > > That's part of the cost of the high cost of military equipment. Certification > and testing does not come without extra cost (and the smaller the purchased > lot, the higher the per-item cost, so the oft-mentioned $600 hammer was maybe > out of a lot of five or some hammers). > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 3 04:55:57 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: Crescent wrenches References: Message-ID: <3C3438BD.B6F9FABF@verizon.net> > square nosed pliers/wire cutters. Later to learn them > by a seemingly more proper name of "Bull Nose Pliers". If I understand correctly the tool you're referring to here, I think I've heard/seen them referred to as "Lineman's Pliers" Chris wrote: > > >Old Boss of mine called the larger triangular headed > >snippers (sim.: Xelite wire cutter) "Dykes". Any word > >on this... word. Is this a correct term? > > I learned that Dykes were the square nosed pliers/wire cutters. Later to > learn them by a seemingly more proper name of "Bull Nose Pliers". And I > have heard the triangular headed ones called Dykes as well, but I have > always just called them wire cutters (but I interchange Dykes and Bull > Nose pliers all the time for the other ones.) > > I have NO idea if these are the right terms (I would lean towards > thinking Bull Nose is correct, but I tend to doubt Dykes is anything more > than an used term) > > -chris > > From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 3 05:16:13 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: OT: Not P.C. hack-ob References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146745A@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <3C343D7D.DA4B878F@verizon.net> David, I thought that was hilarious. Very well done. Very tastefully done too. At least they didn't put a porn shot there or anything. David Woyciesjes wrote: > > ! -----Original Message----- > ! From: Dan Schwartz [mailto:Expresso@snip.net] > ! > ! > ! Of all sites to get hacked, The National Cathedral. Click on: > ! > ! and check out the mouse-over effect for the "Discover" link :-) > ! > ! Who knows how much longer it'll stay up?! > > I know, it's not nice, but it is still kinda funny... > > --- David A Woyciesjes > --- C & IS Support Specialist > --- Yale University Press > --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu > --- (203) 432-0953 > --- ICQ # - 905818 From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 3 05:22:13 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: OT: Older inventory programs for home computers References: <3C306693.18466.986B1CE@localhost> <3C3331FE.14657.1471B476@localhost> Message-ID: <3C343EE5.EAC32C62@verizon.net> Lawrence, Actually wouldn't it be better to put him into some very standard clone hardware so that if he ever needs replacement parts, they would be very inexpensive and easily obtainable. If I was doing it, I'd go with a 486DX/DX2/DX4 or early Pentium clone. That way he'd have a CPU with floating point. In a shop ( not sure what kind of shop ) might he ever want to run autocad to do a drawing or some such? Ian Lawrence Walker wrote: > > Well I have to go with what I have excess in my collection. Since I don't > have any MCA SCSI cards much less SCSI drives I can spare I'll go with the > ESDE's that came with it. His shop is a large shed he built himself 10 yrs > ago, with a little nook he uses for his records and paper work. It might be > advisable tho to reverse the fan and rig up a filter of some sort as you point > out. This is strictly a gift so I don't want to install stuff which I would pay for > out of my limited resources, and I doubt he would have monies available for > what might be considered not a priority as compared to a new set of > wrenches. Thanks > > Lawrence > > > > From: "Lawrence Walker" > > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 13:22:27 -0600 > > > Subject: Re: OT: Older inventory programs for home computers > > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > > > Thanks all for the suggestions. > > > I've decided to go with a spare IBM 8580 I have. They're built like a tank > > > and > > > could survive the rigors of a machine shop. Also I don't want to part with a > > > > Not good idea...without enclosing and close all openings w/ screen > > that '80 boxen to keep junk out that shop produces. Safe places is > > either in cashier room or office room. These rooms that does have > > self-closing doors is best for 'puters. > > > > Going to have SCSI in that 80? You better do that. SCSI is > > strongly recommanded for ease of replacement and used narrow scsi > > drives are plentiful and inexpensive. ESDI and MFM is not best > > idea, these drives are harder to find now and too used up. > > > > Before putting that machine there, don't forget to blow out that PSU > > w/ compressed air. IBM PSUs too often were found loaded full of > > dust. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Wizard > > > > PS: I have seen stuff that wasn't intended for shop use got full > > of greasy junk along w/ metallic bits. Sharp shavings mixed w/ > > greasy dirt in home blower wheel that was pulled from dud forced air > > heater that was used to move stale air around in machine shop. > > My other friend was given this blower and I took it apart and washed > > everything in kitchen sink, repaired power cable splice bec some > > bastards simply twisted wires together without wire nuts or solder, > > AAAHH! Welding, grinding stuff let fly lot of particles that get in > > everything and does damage other stuff. Someone was grinding > > something w/ bench grinder and sparks/particles that was let fly > > pitted friend's jetta's windows 8 feet away. Friend stored his jetta > > there for complete repaint and some repairs to his CV joint at high > > school. Shop enviroment is very HARSH FYI. > > Reply to: > lgwalker@mts.net From dpeschel at eskimo.com Thu Jan 3 07:07:58 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Happy Holidays! In-Reply-To: <20020101000650.G21934@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>; from jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de on Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 12:06:50AM +0100 References: <20011226220529.C7508@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20011231124107.A1290@eskimo.eskimo.com> <20020101000650.G21934@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20020103050758.C3566@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 12:06:50AM +0100, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On 2001.12.31 21:41 Derek Peschel wrote: > [porting pdksh-5.2.14 to 2.11BSD on my PDP11/73] > > Why spend time with pdksh when you can get the real Korn shell > > sources? :) > I did not know that the ksh source is now free. > But would it be easier to port ksh instead of pdksh? I don't know. > BTW: I have the object files build and I got them to link with only 6 > overlays. But the executable dumps core... ...will need some time with > adb... Random question -- Is there any way to use overlays with shared text segments (the "sticky bit")? The shell is one of the usual candidates for having its sticky bit set, but then it would have to keep track of which users need which overlays... not pleasant. -- Derek From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Jan 3 09:36:32 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Happy Holidays! In-Reply-To: <20020103050758.C3566@eskimo.eskimo.com>; from dpeschel@eskimo.com on Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 14:07:58 CET References: <20011226220529.C7508@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20011231124107.A1290@eskimo.eskimo.com> <20020101000650.G21934@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20020103050758.C3566@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <20020103163632.K3861@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.01.03 14:07 Derek Peschel wrote: [overlayed executables in 2.11BSD] > Random question -- Is there any way to use overlays with shared text > segments (the "sticky bit")? I don't know. > The shell is one of the usual candidates > for having its sticky bit set, but then it would have to keep track of > which users need which overlays... not pleasant. Hmmm. I can only assume. The info what overlay is active is part of the process structure, as it is part of the memory management and handled by the kernel. So it would be individual for every process. But I may be completly wrong in that. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From djg at drs-esg.com Thu Jan 3 07:19:12 2002 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: DEC bus driver/receiver chips (really VT78 docs) Message-ID: <200201031319.IAA14680@drs-esg.com> From: "Carlini, Antonio" I have zero technical info so anything vaguely technical would be nice. I've looked through your list of docs, and apart from WPS, OS/8 (does that apply??) and docs with 78 in the date I don't see any stuff that applies. Printsets, tech manuals, anything that will help me fix it (I'm sure it will break sometime in the next thirty years or so ...) would be nice. The OS/78 would be the applicable OS version for it and that is in the document list. Some RX01/RX02 drive information is also online. The prints I was referring to having are not scanned yet. I probably have scanned half my documentation. These prints are about an inch of double sided 11x17 pages. 11x17 is more difficult with my scanner so tend to be lower on the scan priority list. If somebody has failed hardware I will move the relevant prints to the scan soon pile, otherwise they will appear eventually. (I'm sure it will break sometime in the next thirty years or so ...) would be nice. I plan to have this all done in 25 years so you should be all set :-). If you know the UK people need a particular portion of it let me know. I don't have the time to scan it all in the near term. Email me the request directly, with the list traffic I might miss it. From menadeau at mediaone.net Thu Jan 3 08:37:06 2002 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: new email newsletter for classic computing buffs References: <200201030332.TAA26414@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <00d401c19464$21238160$0b01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> > > As early as next week, I will launch the Classic Tech Eletter. It is a free, > > twice-monthly newsletter with short news items on vintage computing > > resources, collections, rescues, sales of important systems, and events. The > > eletter's audience is primarily folks who have an interest in collecting > > and/or preserving vintage systems. > > What about people writing software for them, particularly commercial titles? > (And what about your book? :-P) > Absolutely. I'm hoping that anyone offering software (or hardware) for vintage systems will use the Classic Tech Eletter to get the word out. The publisher has pushed my book, Collectible Micros, back to its Fall 2002 catalog, which means that it will be available no sooner than June. Bums me out--I was hoping for a January date. --Mike From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 3 10:06:29 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printerfind In-Reply-To: <3C33EBC7.59872A1F@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Blue steam? I've never heard of telling someone being told a certain > color of steam. Never heard the Skyhooks line either. > > You do know that in order to get a bucket of steam, you have to catch > the steam first. A steam trap is typically used. We used to send worms up to "water the crown". The worm, a new hand, had to carry a 5-gallon bucket of water up to the "water table", a non-existent receptacle at the top of a 110-foot derrick. They were usually fairly irritable about having to carry that bucket *down* the ladder, too. But the job I got my first evening out, I never saw done again. My driller handed me a hacksaw and 4 packs of carbide blades, led me down to the cellar, and told me to trim the new studs on the Blow-Out Preventer stack. I then spent 7 hours up to my thighs in mud, cutting No. 8 (tool-grade hardness) 2inch bolts with that hacksaw. My father-in-law was the superintendent, and didn't like me much.... Doc From csmith at amdocs.com Thu Jan 3 10:11:06 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Any AMIGA users? Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E06B@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] > Certainly the PC hardware, regardless of OS or other software > can NOT do > Amiga. > Can the Linux catweasel drivers actually use the catweasel as its disk > controller for the file system? Or is this an issue that the > catweasel > software (that does NOT work at a filesystem level) can also RUN under > linux? Right, but remember that linux won't run only on peesees. :) Linux on a power-mac (or amiga!) will likely produce bit-for-bit copies of amiga disks just fine. Also, I think it's the standard linux floppy disk driver, which is pretty flexible, and not a special "catweasel" driver, so it would be handled just the same as a standard floppy setup. So I guess you could write ext2 filesystems to 880k floppies if you want ;) Or ... one could write an amiga filesystem for linux. I actually wonder why this hasn't been done. > Has anybody, anywhere, EVER gotten a catweasel to work as a > controller to > do file system level operations? After this discussion, I'm tempted to get one and try. Too bad I can't afford it just now. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Thu Jan 3 10:29:41 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Any AMIGA users? Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E06C@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Franchuk [mailto:bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca] > OK what was the AMIGA that ran both AMIGA and PC software ... (286 + > 68000 ) > cpu cards on a PC style box. Did that have a special software to write > PC disks? > I saw one once - but it was sure slow! That was the 2000, I think. Slow or not, I've been after one for a while, myself. :) Well, actually any amiga that's newer than my 1000... ;) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 3 10:30:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: MCA SCSI 11H3600 In-Reply-To: <3C33F856.D893FB93@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I don't understand. How do you get feature code 2415? 2415 indicates > FRU 93H8817 or 93H8814 if I follow the 1st link you provide. IBM publication SA38-0533-06, "Adapters, Devices, and Cable Information for Micro Channel Bus Systyems". It's the only FC 2415 listed. The card listed on the microcode page is the same adapter, and I _think_ the 93H881X FRU is for the EPROM itself. The MCA SCSI adapter I'm looking at, from a 7013-530, is a 51G9425. The programmable chips are 31G9725 and 31G9727. Doc From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jan 2 20:45:44 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment References: Message-ID: <3C33C5D8.97EB55DF@jetnet.ab.ca> "Merle K. Peirce" wrote: > > Proper grammer promotes better understanding. After all, even a monkey > can sometimes make himself understood, even without language or grammar, > and you're better than that, aren't you? Koko may a have comment or two about that! http://www.koko.org/ -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 3 10:46:37 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: <002001c19469$9f4bb3a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Get used to it, folks ... it's that "text-messaging" mentality taking over. OK. But "getting used to it" in no way implies "sitting still for it". I kind of enjoy the fact that I think & speak hillbilly. I flatter myself that I can still impart that regional flavor, when I want, to my communication without trashing my grammar and spelling. As far as 3V17 H4x0r language, or a wannabe ee cummins, I just put 'em on Ig and forget 'em. Doc From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jan 3 10:43:15 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Any AMIGA users? In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E06B@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: > > Certainly the PC hardware, regardless of OS or other software > > can NOT do > > Amiga. > > Can the Linux catweasel drivers actually use the catweasel as its disk > > controller for the file system? Or is this an issue that the > > catweasel > > software (that does NOT work at a filesystem level) can also RUN under > > linux? On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > Right, but remember that linux won't run only on peesees. :) Linux on > a power-mac (or amiga!) will likely produce bit-for-bit copies of > amiga disks just fine. IRRELEVANT. The discussion was how to make an Amiga disk using a PC. It can not be done with the stock PC hardware. Somebody said that it could be done with the stock PC, by using Linux. THAT IS WRONG. > Also, I think it's the standard linux floppy disk driver, which is > pretty flexible, and not a special "catweasel" driver, so it would be > handled just the same as a standard floppy setup. So I guess you > could write ext2 filesystems to 880k floppies if you want ;) The "standard linux floppy disk driver" will operate the Catweasel card? (It is NOT a floppy disk controller in terms of BIOS level interaction.) Or The "standard linux floppy disk driver" will do stuff that is impossible with the PC hardware, without needing the Catweasel? I would love to know how EITHER of those would work. It WOULD be possible to write a floppy disk driver for Linux that could make use of the Catweasel. But it has, apparently NOT been done, and therefore suggestions of USING that are inappropriate. > Or ... one could write an amiga filesystem for linux. I actually > wonder why this hasn't been done. For use with linux on an Amiga? Or are you trying to say that writing an amiga filesystem for Linux, would permit a PC running Linux to read and write Amiga disksettes without special hardware? Could you also write one for NorthStar-DOS? (hard-sectored) How about one for Apple-DOS? (GCR) How about one that reads 8" diskettes in a 5.25" drive? (Maybe trimming the edges, and not being able to read some outer tracks :-) > > Has anybody, anywhere, EVER gotten a catweasel to work as a > > controller to > > do file system level operations? > After this discussion, I'm tempted to get one and try. Too bad I can't afford it just now. Please let us know when you do. From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Jan 3 10:43:32 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Language and English Message-ID: I am just observing this thread, and have refrained from commenting until now; several posters have echoed my sentiments and thus I will reserve further comments save that, in my lifelong study of the structure and beauty of the English language, I find the use of "sms/icq/chat" formatting, **when used outside of those fora**, to be excruciatingly juvenile and 'cutesy'... the modern equivalent of dotting all one's 'i's with circles or (shudder) smiley faces. And don't get me started on so-called "emoticons", either. ;} As well. I have nothing to add concerning the 'contributions' of AOLamers to the Internet (since Mr. Case first opened the sluiceways)... alt.aol.sucks is there for all to peruse and react to as they see fit. THAT BEING SAID: Since no one seems to remember why we're here - What I want to know from the Gentleperson, 'from the arts' as you say [what form of art? I have studied piano and music for more than 40 years, I am a paid (occasionally) writer, some published poetry, scored a few crummy movies, FYI...] is this: what comprises your collection, or interests, in Classic Computing? Do you have a specialty area? Mine is PDP-era DEC machines. I also collect and restore vintage electronic musical instruments and outboard gear. Do you work on / restore / re-sell classic computers? Do you use classic computers in your Art? I sure do... Do you have a particular name you'd rather be addressed as (other than your 'screen name')? I'm sorry the topic drifted to your choice of communication style. I can share with you that, because a good deal of my professional writing is for three or four consumer audio magazines, and since I provide an e-mail box for readers to use, I am sometimes quite overwhelmed with high-school and college-age correspondants who either 'sms' themselves into incomprehensibility or bludgeon me WiTh HaX0R pRiNtIng D00DZ!!!!! I AM 3LIT3!!!!! It does not, I assure you, impress. My two cents. Please have a happy New Year, and I am very interested in hearing about your involvement in classiccmping. Cheers John From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jan 3 10:46:56 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Any AMIGA users? In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E06C@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: > > OK what was the AMIGA that ran both AMIGA and PC software ... (286 + > > 68000 ) > > cpu cards on a PC style box. Did that have a special software to write > > PC disks? > > I saw one once - but it was sure slow! On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > That was the 2000, I think. Slow or not, I've been after one for a > while, myself. :) Well, actually any amiga that's newer than my > 1000... ;) There was a software only PC emulation that ran on the 1000. It was VERY slow, but it PASSED the "acid test of PC compatability" (PCW 1?/84 "How the clones stack up") For a while, they gave it free with the purchase of the external 5.25" drive. I'll look this weekend, but I don't think that I can find it. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 3 10:53:18 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Dilog DQ614 diagnostics program first tests In-Reply-To: <2f53212f5d2a.2f5d2a2f5321@ono.com> Message-ID: <20020103165318.13450.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sergio Pedraja Cabo wrote: > > Hello everybody and Happy New Year (if applicable). > > I did the first tests with the DQ614P.SAV program and my Dilog DQ614 > MFM controller board. Good for you... you beat me to it (I'm still selecting my machine and disk from my pile of parts) > * One PDP-11/23 PLUS with 128 Kwords of memory Nice choice. For me it'll be that or the KDJ11 I just got. > * One PC connected to the second SLU simulating one TU58 > double unit (thanks, Will Kranz !) I had forgotten about that option. I think I'll do the same to get the program in there (I already have RT-11 v5.3 on RX50). I _had_ been planning on using a real TU-58 cart or an RX50 diskette. > * One Dilog DQ614 Revision S I will have to check my card to see what rev mine is. > * One Quantum MFM Hard Disk Q540 (Aka. RD52-A) Personally, I plan to pick something that is _not_ a drop-in replacement for a DEC drive - I can format all sorts of stuff on an RQDX3, but it's nice to stick to the right models when you can to make drive geometry tables in the OS and/or drivers match. i.e., if I had a Q540 that wasn't DEC formatted, I'd probably save it for use with a MicroVAX-I or MicroPDP. > * RT-11 v.4 OK... Should be good. I'll be testing with RT-11 v5.3. Hopefully, there won't be any surprises from anything that "new". > Environment tips: > > * I assume the vector addresses of the unit is 174400 and 160. As long as the board was set up as defaults, that should be fine. > The program startup and asks me if I'm working with a C.R.T (I assume > it speaks about a terminal). Yes. That was common so the application would know how to handle the delete key - backup or overstrike. > Later the program asks me about the > access vector for the controller. By default it uses 174400 and 160 > values. I assume them too. Sure. > The next step is to select one MFM hard disk. > My disk is the 73, one Quantum Q540. Is there a list anywhere of what the program is expecting? > Inmediately, the program permits > me to select how much DL disks I want to emulate. I can emulate two > RL02 and two RL01. The program asks me: "Are you sure ?". My answer is > yes. The process begins... and some seconds later, the program send me > a message telling: "UNEXPECTED RESPONSE IN ADDRESS 00000160 (sometimes > is the address 00000000). That suggests to me that it got an interrupt when it wasn't expecting one. Have you formatted this drive on another controller and scanned for bad blocks? I know the RQDX3 has a "standard" way of handling them (well... standard for the RQDX line), so I'm not sure there's a "factory BBL" to reference or if there is, that the DQ614 does reference it, but I would see if the drive passes a low-level format on something else, perhaps a WD1003 in an old 486 that still has the format option in the BIOS menu. You could also try it on a WX-1 with its BIOS formatter (accessed through debug, typically). > I've tried to change the cable selection, > the address selection, etc... In this case, the message tells me that > the unit can't be accessed. Sounds like you have it right. > Like a final indication, the Q540 hard disk have 5 jumpers named > DS1, DS2, DS3, DS4 and ^. Actually is selected the DS1. I think that's correct. What I remember is that you can have one or two drives on it and it supports a variety of combinations of emulated drive sizes, based on what the physical sizes are. I was considering throwing an ST-251 (yes... I know it could also be an RD33, but they are somewhat plentiful as MFM drives go) on there and seeing if there was enough room for 4 x RL02 (not sure how much space is taken up by overhead). > What is wrong ? I suspect that the program must be the same revision > than the board (Revision "O" the program, revision "S" the board). > If somebody can supply it to me, I'll agree a lot. As far as I've seen in 17 years of searching, this rev O program is the only thing to surface. > Any other suggestion about the vector address, etc, are welcome. No real suggestions except to try the drive on a different controller to see if it formats and to try a different drive with the DQ614 and see how _it_ formats. If you get the same problem, I'm not sure. There's a finite (but not large) possibility that your controller is hosed. If the machine contains only what you describe (CPU board, RAM, DQ614), then I'm not sure. If you happen to have an RLV11 or RLV12 that is also strapped to the default addresses, that would be a problem, but I suspect that you would have bombed out much earlier if that were the case. Dunno... I guess I can see how things work on my end and give a report, too. Hopefully it will all work for me. Not sure. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 3 10:53:59 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Any AMIGA users? In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E06B@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > Or ... one could write an amiga filesystem for linux. I actually wonder why this hasn't been done. It has. You have to build a kernel with AFFS support, and AFAIK, UAE is the only way to actually build the fs. You can read amiga disks in native Linux, if your hardware supports them. Doc From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Jan 3 12:17:25 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Any AMIGA users? References: Message-ID: <3C34A035.BCB506E9@ccp.com> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > > OK what was the AMIGA that ran both AMIGA and PC software ... (286 + > > > 68000 ) > > > cpu cards on a PC style box. Did that have a special software to write > > > PC disks? > > > I saw one once - but it was sure slow! > > On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > That was the 2000, I think. Slow or not, I've been after one for a > > while, myself. :) Well, actually any amiga that's newer than my > > 1000... ;) > > There was a software only PC emulation that ran on the 1000. It was VERY > slow, but it PASSED the "acid test of PC compatability" (PCW 1?/84 "How > the clones stack up") > > For a while, they gave it free with the purchase of the external > 5.25" drive. I'll look this weekend, but I don't think that I can find > it. That was the transformer software, and it was only semi-compatible with the PC Gary Hildebrand From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 3 11:52:35 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Any AMIGA users? In-Reply-To: <3C34A035.BCB506E9@ccp.com> Message-ID: <20020103175235.57020.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gary Hildebrand wrote: > "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > > > > OK what was the AMIGA that ran both AMIGA and PC software... > > > > ... (286 + 68000 ) cpu cards on a PC style box. Did that have a > > > > special software to write PC disks? The hardware solution you are probably referring to is an A2000 and Commodore Bridge card. The first models were the A2088 with an 8088, the later model, the A2286, had the '286. Third-parties produced cards that were faster. They were called bridge cards because they bridged the Zorro bus (68000-side) to the ISA bus that was present in every A2000 (and A3000...) but inert. I produce the GG2 Bus+ bridgecard which has _no_ CPU, but makes the ISA bus available directly in 68000-address space (shameless plug off...) As delivered, the A2088 (and A2286) came with an internal 5.25" floppy. You would mount the floppy in the one-and-only 5.25" hole in the A2000 and cable it to the bridge card - that's your A: drive. The provided software allowed you to display the contents of the display memory on the bridge card in a window (there was a well-documented interface between the A2088 and the Zorro bus). You had several ISA slots available, so you could put in a hard disk controller, a network card, whatever you wanted. I think you could override the internal emulated display and put in an ISA video card, but if it was possible, it was not a common arrangement, partially because you were still limited to using the A2000's keyboard through the bridge card software, over the Zorro interface (no external keyboard connector). There was also a device driver you could buy (later licensed with the OS) to read/write PC floppies - CrossDOS. I've used it for 720K and 1.44Mb floppies (with a C= 1/2-speed HD drive). They also produced CrossMac for reading/writing Mac floppies (HD only, not 400K/800K). Essentially, it was a filesystem handler and a couple of mount scripts. The Amiga is friendly when it comes to adding new devices/filesystems. You get OFS in ROM always, FFS in ROM sometimes and other filesystems as you desire to add them; completely unlike DOS/Windows. > > > > I saw one once - but it was sure slow! Yes. For as expensive as they were, they were never at the top end of the PC performance curve. > > On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > There was a software only PC emulation that ran on the 1000. It was > > VERY slow, but it PASSED the "acid test of PC compatability" (PCW > > 1?/84 "How the clones stack up") > > > > For a while, they gave it free with the purchase of the external > > 5.25" drive. > > That was the transformer software, and it was only semi-compatible with > the PC I never used it, but I don't recall hearing good things. Later, a third-party company (the makers of "CrossDOS") came out with Cross-PC, a reasonable software approximation of a real PC... some of the versions even supported real ISA cards over the GG2 Bus+. Kinda neat, really... a fake PC with real hardware - like hanging a Unibus off your PC and running E-11. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From csmith at amdocs.com Thu Jan 3 10:55:09 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E06D@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Lawrence Walker [mailto:lgwalker@mts.net] > And actually force people to learn how to spell without the > use of a spell- > checker. I remember how aghast I was when I learned my sons school Well, in defense of poor spelling, there are more important things -- such as content -- especially on a friendly list such as this. After all, tripe is tripe, no matter how correct the spelling. :) > allowed the use of calculators in math exams. Right On, Fred. ... and in defense of calculators, it's certainly more important for one to learn the theoretical core of mathematics so that it can be applied to Real Life than to waste time calculating things which are practically useless. The actual calculation is generally a mundane, but necessary step. Provided that you know how it's supposed to work, you can always arrive at the correct answer given some amount of time, with or without a calculator. Please don't take this as a defense of the public school system, which doesn't truthfully teach anything. > I was going to > reply to this would-be hacker's input but brushed it off as > more juvenal crap. I was tempted to respond too, but -- and this is the whole problem with the message -- there was nothing to which one could respond. He may as well have said "test message -- please ignore." Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From ysgdhio at yahoo.com Fri Jan 4 10:52:31 2002 From: ysgdhio at yahoo.com (ysgdhio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020103071732.022d3aa8@pc>; from John Foust on Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 07:19:46AM -0600 References: <150.6a81bde.29654ee4@aol.com> <5.0.0.25.0.20020103071732.022d3aa8@pc> Message-ID: <20020104115231.A10462@spies.com> John Foust writes: > Insert drummer joke here. Q: How do you know when there's a drummer at your door? A: The knocking keeps getting faster. ObTopic: http://www.scientificamerican.com/2001/0801issue/0801hargrove.html From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jan 3 11:02:17 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: Re: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment (ysgdhio) References: <150.6a81bde.29654ee4@aol.com> <5.0.0.25.0.20020103071732.022d3aa8@pc> <20020104115231.A10462@spies.com> Message-ID: <15412.36505.174906.94415@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 4, ysgdhio wrote: > > Insert drummer joke here. > > Q: How do you know when there's a drummer at your door? > A: The knocking keeps getting faster. AHEM. B-| -Dave, drummer -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From msell at ontimesupport.com Thu Jan 3 10:57:36 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: FreeVMS Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103103503.03054b60@127.0.0.1> I know I'm going to open up a can of worms on this post, but my curiosity is killing me.... Now that I have OpenVMS 6.1 running on my VAX 4000, I'm curious about the status of the various "FreeVMS" projects that are in progress (or so it would seem....). Are any of these projects really in active development? Which projects have the greatest potential for operation? I checked several sites related to "FreeVMS", which actually seems to be a common name for several different projects with different goals. I'd love to "cut my teeth" with kernel development after working with Linux for several years. I personally think it would be neat to have an accurate version of FreeVMS that would work on VAX, AXP, and i386 (gulp!). When I say accurate, I mean that FreeVMS would respond the same as VMS would for the various commands and peripherals. Some of you probably think it would be silly to take an i386 version of FreeVMS and port it "back" to VAX and AXP, but it would be a neat way to use FreeVMS, especially if the OpenVMS hobbyist program (or OpenVMS) were to go away. Nuts? Probably. Neat? Yes! Here are links to the various FreeVMS projects I have visited: http://www.panix.com/~kingdon/free-vms.html http://www.freevms.org/ http://www.djesys.com/vms/freevms/ - Matt Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From rhudson at cnonline.net Thu Jan 3 11:51:27 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: FreeVMS References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103103503.03054b60@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <3C349A1F.8040501@cnonline.net> I for one, would LOVE to run a VMS look alike on my i386 machine (or at least one of my spare machines...) It would bring back younger days when I was an op on several vaxen. (also some dg and some apollo) please please please!!! : ^ ) Matthew Sell wrote: > > > I know I'm going to open up a can of worms on this post, but my > curiosity is killing me.... > > > Now that I have OpenVMS 6.1 running on my VAX 4000, I'm curious about > the status of the various "FreeVMS" projects that are in progress (or so > it would seem....). > > Are any of these projects really in active development? Which projects > have the greatest potential for operation? I checked several sites > related to "FreeVMS", which actually seems to be a common name for > several different projects with different goals. > > I'd love to "cut my teeth" with kernel development after working with > Linux for several years. I personally think it would be neat to have an > accurate version of FreeVMS that would work on VAX, AXP, and i386 > (gulp!). When I say accurate, I mean that FreeVMS would respond the same > as VMS would for the various commands and peripherals. > > Some of you probably think it would be silly to take an i386 version of > FreeVMS and port it "back" to VAX and AXP, but it would be a neat way to > use FreeVMS, especially if the OpenVMS hobbyist program (or OpenVMS) > were to go away. > > Nuts? Probably. Neat? Yes! > > Here are links to the various FreeVMS projects I have visited: > > http://www.panix.com/~kingdon/free-vms.html > http://www.freevms.org/ > http://www.djesys.com/vms/freevms/ > > > - Matt > > > > > > > > Matthew Sell > Programmer > On Time Support, Inc. > www.ontimesupport.com > (281) 296-6066 > > Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! > http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi > > > "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad > "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler > > Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From dpeschel at eskimo.com Thu Jan 3 11:18:05 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Happy Holidays! In-Reply-To: <20020103163632.K3861@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>; from jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de on Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 04:36:32PM +0100 References: <20011226220529.C7508@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20011231124107.A1290@eskimo.eskimo.com> <20020101000650.G21934@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20020103050758.C3566@eskimo.eskimo.com> <20020103163632.K3861@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20020103091805.A17012@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 04:36:32PM +0100, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On 2002.01.03 14:07 Derek Peschel wrote: > > [overlayed executables in 2.11BSD] > > Random question -- Is there any way to use overlays with shared text > > segments (the "sticky bit")? > I don't know. > > > The shell is one of the usual candidates > > for having its sticky bit set, but then it would have to keep track of > > which users need which overlays... not pleasant. > Hmmm. I can only assume. The info what overlay is active is part of the > process structure, as it is part of the memory management and handled by > the kernel. So it would be individual for every process. But I may be > completly wrong in that. But the whole point of the sticky bit is that some of the process information (whether a segment is swapped out or not) becomes shared by more than one process. Thus the paradox. Anyway, it sounds like you're having fun with your toy. :) -- Derek From csmith at amdocs.com Thu Jan 3 11:22:26 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Kaypro PC? Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E06E@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Schaefer [mailto:rschaefe@gcfn.org] > I'm looking for info on one of these. I's some kind of XT > clone, with an > eight-bit passive backplane and an upgraded V20 on a CPU > card. It runs > MSDOS, and > currently boots into dosshell. A little googling turns up > numerous resumes > containing Kaypro PC, and a number of old classiccmp posts > regarding them, > but no real info. kaypro.com seems to be down ATM. I'd > especially like to > know what the switch and pushbutton on the back of the CPU > card do. IIRC > it's not a reset button, but I might be mis-remembering. Well, I have one of these. It was given to me a week ago. I have both the computer itself, and a kaypro monitor (in original box ;). No documentation or anything. Let me know if you find out anything interesting. I haven't tried powering it on yet. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jan 3 12:12:49 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: IMSAI HyperCube (Was: Re: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainfu l employment) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225C88@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > ObTopic: > http://www.scientificamerican.com/2001/0801issue/0801hargrove.html > Another Hybercube. Does anyone remeber that IMSAI seems to have been the first to do this, using the 8080? -dq From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 3 13:20:27 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: IMSAI HyperCube (Was: Re: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainfu l employment) In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225C88@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > Does anyone remeber that IMSAI seems to have been the first to do > this, using the 8080? Details? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From menadeau at mediaone.net Thu Jan 3 13:30:38 2002 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: IMSAI HyperCube (Was: Re: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment) References: Message-ID: <025601c1948d$22a012a0$0b01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> Read about it here: http://www.imsai.net/History/IMSAI_pre-history.htm Michael Nadeau Editorial Services 603-893-2379 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 2:20 PM Subject: Re: IMSAI HyperCube (Was: Re: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment) > On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > Does anyone remeber that IMSAI seems to have been the first to do > > this, using the 8080? > > Details? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 3 14:59:44 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: IMSAI HyperCube (Was: Re: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment) In-Reply-To: <025601c1948d$22a012a0$0b01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Michael Nadeau wrote: > Read about it here: > > http://www.imsai.net/History/IMSAI_pre-history.htm Hmmm, according to Todd, the U.S. Navy ordered one for an installation at Huntsville, Alabama. I wonder what ever became of that? Was it an eventually working system? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Jan 3 12:35:56 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467469@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] ! ! ! On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Chris wrote: ! > I know the facts, and I know exactly why it carries that ! > name (much like ! ! It's a nice analogy, but only partially relevant for this particular ! issue. ! I don't know what they're teaching kids these days, but in ! the time period ! for which this list is relevant, mechanics did/do indeed refer to any ! adjustable wrench of that particular design as a "Crescent ! Wrench". They ! do NOT use the term "Crescent Wrench" to refer to any other style of ! adjustable wrench, and would consider THAT misuse as comparable to ! referring to a box-end wrench as a "socket". Maybe I'm dating myself, or just sounding stupid, but with my basic hands-on mechanic experience, I always called them 'adjustable' wrenches, because that's what they did. They adjusted to the size you nedd. Never quite realized what exactly a Cresent wrench was... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Jan 3 14:58:06 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467469@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <3C34717E.29336.1951F28F@localhost> Well I've worked most of my life with tools, including Garages, machine shops, construction , the oil-patch, the film industry as grip and "electric", the railways, had a bicycle shop, and many other mechanical things and in Canada it was always specifically referred to as a crescent wrench. Before I learned that Cresent was a company I always thought it referred to the shape. A request for a"adjustable" wrench would have elicited a momentary pause and then a caustic "vice-grip" or "monkeywrench"? Then again each region has it's own language like "tubes" and "valves". Lawrence > ! From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] > ! > ! > ! On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Chris wrote: > ! > I know the facts, and I know exactly why it carries that > ! > name (much like > ! > ! It's a nice analogy, but only partially relevant for this particular > ! issue. > ! I don't know what they're teaching kids these days, but in > ! the time period > ! for which this list is relevant, mechanics did/do indeed refer to any > ! adjustable wrench of that particular design as a "Crescent > ! Wrench". They > ! do NOT use the term "Crescent Wrench" to refer to any other style of > ! adjustable wrench, and would consider THAT misuse as comparable to > ! referring to a box-end wrench as a "socket". > > Maybe I'm dating myself, or just sounding stupid, but with my basic > hands-on mechanic experience, I always called them 'adjustable' wrenches, > because that's what they did. They adjusted to the size you nedd. > Never quite realized what exactly a Cresent wrench was... > > --- David A Woyciesjes > --- C & IS Support Specialist > --- Yale University Press > --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu > --- (203) 432-0953 > --- ICQ # - 905818 Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jan 3 16:44:23 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: <3C34717E.29336.1951F28F@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Well I've worked most of my life with tools, including Garages, machine > shops, construction , the oil-patch, the film industry as grip and "electric", > the railways, had a bicycle shop, and many other mechanical things and in > Canada it was always specifically referred to as a crescent wrench. Before I > learned that Cresent was a company I always thought it referred to the > shape. A request for a"adjustable" wrench would have elicited a momentary > pause and then a caustic "vice-grip" or "monkeywrench"? > Then again each region has it's own language like "tubes" and "valves". I got out of auto (Honda primarily) repair 20 years ago. But in THOSE days, in northern California (and presumably a few other places), "Crescent" WAS used by otherwise competent professionals to refer to any of that type of adjustable wrenches, regardless of manufacturer. (Simple lapse of trademark into common usage, like "Xerox") In extremely formal usage, manufacturer would be specified (again, just like usage of "Xerox") "Adjustable wrench" was used some, but was considered to be not a narrow enough term. "Vise-Grips" and "Swiss Army Knife" were used ONLY for those specific brands. That was because the imitations were NO GOOD, and no professional mechanic would be caught dead with such poor quality. BTW, there are two brands of Swiss Army Knife: Victorinox and Wenger. With a few exceptions, for certain special models such as left-handed, Victorinox is the better one. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jan 3 23:22:15 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find References: <3C34717E.29336.1951F28F@localhost> Message-ID: <3C353C07.B7C8671@internet1.net> I always call them Crescent Wrenches. I always thought Adjustable Wrench was the silly name that knock-offs were called. I have a few smaller ones that are made by Craftsman, but the big 15 incher I have is a genuine Crescent Wrench. I'm just guess, but I assume that the Crescent Tool Company, now owned by Cooper Tools, came up with the design first. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Lawrence Walker wrote: > > Well I've worked most of my life with tools, including Garages, machine > shops, construction , the oil-patch, the film industry as grip and "electric", > the railways, had a bicycle shop, and many other mechanical things and in > Canada it was always specifically referred to as a crescent wrench. Before I > learned that Cresent was a company I always thought it referred to the > shape. A request for a"adjustable" wrench would have elicited a momentary > pause and then a caustic "vice-grip" or "monkeywrench"? > Then again each region has it's own language like "tubes" and "valves". > > Lawrence From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Jan 3 23:51:05 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: References: <3C34717E.29336.1951F28F@localhost> Message-ID: <3C34EE69.7418.D07C8C@localhost> And then there is "Leatherman" the modern eqivalent of the "Swiss Army Knife" of which there is no eqivalent I know qualitywise altho the quality is declining as demand increases. Lawrence > On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > Well I've worked most of my life with tools, including Garages, machine > > shops, construction , the oil-patch, the film industry as grip and "electric", > > the railways, had a bicycle shop, and many other mechanical things and in > > Canada it was always specifically referred to as a crescent wrench. Before I > > learned that Cresent was a company I always thought it referred to the shape. > > A request for a"adjustable" wrench would have elicited a momentary pause and > > then a caustic "vice-grip" or "monkeywrench"? > > Then again each region has it's own language like "tubes" and "valves". > > I got out of auto (Honda primarily) repair 20 years ago. But in THOSE > days, in northern California (and presumably a few other places), > "Crescent" WAS used by otherwise competent professionals to refer to any > of that type of adjustable wrenches, regardless of manufacturer. (Simple > lapse of trademark into common usage, like "Xerox") In extremely formal > usage, manufacturer would be specified (again, just like usage of "Xerox") > > "Adjustable wrench" was used some, but was considered to be not a narrow > enough term. > > "Vise-Grips" and "Swiss Army Knife" were used ONLY for those specific > brands. That was because the imitations were NO GOOD, and no professional > mechanic would be caught dead with such poor quality. > BTW, there are two brands of Swiss Army Knife: Victorinox and > Wenger. With a few exceptions, for certain special models such as > left-handed, Victorinox is the better one. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jan 4 12:34:11 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: <3C34EE69.7418.D07C8C@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > And then there is "Leatherman" the modern eqivalent of the "Swiss Army > Knife" of which there is no eqivalent I know qualitywise altho the quality is > declining as demand increases. In addition to the crappy generic wannabes, there are similar or related tools now from many of the major, legit tool companies. I think that there is even one from Crescent. Some of those are decent quality. Very recently, Vise-Grips has come out with one! It's called the "Vise-Grips Toolbox". Check Harbor Freight item #46380-0VGA. In additon to vise-grips, Shrade blades, it also has a 1/4" bit driver (without that silly ADD-ON of the real Leatherman) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 3 17:59:42 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer In-Reply-To: from "Matt London" at Jan 3, 2 02:35:31 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 928 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020103/d8bd9e7b/attachment.ksh From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jan 3 18:07:31 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Matt London wrote: > > > >In my garage, we had a box with a 150mm Crescent WANNABE, "rubber nails" > > > >(steel nails for nailing rubber weatherstripping), spotted paint (sold in > > > >a spray can by GM for repairing trunks), etc. for hazing the new parts > > > >runners. > > > > > >And the all time favorite, ask for the 8/16th socket. > > > > I always heard it as either the "left-handed" and/or "metric" adjustable > > wrench (which here in northern Michigan, seems to be interchangeable with > > "Crescent" albeit incorrectly) and in the military (I was a radio/wire dog) > > we had "frequency grease" to send others for... > > My grandad (may he rest in peace), who used to work in a machine shop > somehwere, used to recall that they would send the new apprentices down to > the basement stores for a packet of #3 skyhooks and a bucket of blue > steam, possibly even a long stand (which is enevitably what they got in > stores) Back when I was a camp counselor, we would send people into town to get "left-handed smokeshifters," "bacon stretchers," and things like that. 8-) Peace... Sridhar From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Jan 4 00:04:19 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer References: Message-ID: <3C3545E3.2050509@cnonline.net> A true navy story from my Navy days. Another form of "hazing" is getting the new guys to do the "mail buoy watch". The story is that when a ship is underway to and has postal mail.. a mail buoy is placed in it's path. Well that's baloney but these were new guys anyway. They get posted way up on the bow of the ship (lots of salt spray... etc.) Well the watch was set and the guys "found" a mail buoy..(remember there is no such thing). They actually turned the ship to get close enough for the ships postal guy to declare that that was not a mail buoy. From zaft at azstarnet.com Fri Jan 4 00:37:21 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon C. Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Hazing (was Re: Crescent wrenches ...) In-Reply-To: <3C3545E3.2050509@cnonline.net> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020103233608.029ad8b8@pop.azstarnet.com> At 10:04 PM 1/3/2002 -0800, Ron Hudson wrote: >A true navy story from my Navy days. When I was a Navy civil servant, every engineer who went out on his first ship qualification trial would get hazed. Usually it was being sent to get batteries for the sound-powered phones.... GZ Gordon Zaft zaft@azstarnet.com From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jan 3 19:13:20 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Hazing (was Re: Crescent wrenches ...) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020103233608.029ad8b8@pop.azstarnet.com> Message-ID: <02Jan4.063459est.119070@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> On 04-Jan-02, Gordon C. Zaft wrote: > At 10:04 PM 1/3/2002 -0800, Ron Hudson wrote: > >> A true navy story from my Navy days. > > When I was a Navy civil servant, every engineer who went out on > his first ship qualification trial would get hazed. Usually it was being > sent to get batteries for the sound-powered phones.... My favorite was always sending someone for a bucket of steam....that or a snipe punch. Jeff -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amiga 3000, Cyberstorm MkII 060/50, GVP Spectrum, Xsurf ethernet, Amiga OS 3.9, 4GB Quantum Fireball, HD floppy, 36MB FastRAM http://www.cchaven.com From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Jan 4 10:15:46 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Hazing (was Re: Crescent wrenches ...) In-Reply-To: <02Jan4.063459est.119070@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: > On 04-Jan-02, Gordon C. Zaft wrote: > > At 10:04 PM 1/3/2002 -0800, Ron Hudson wrote: > > > >> A true navy story from my Navy days. > > > > When I was a Navy civil servant, every engineer who went out on > > his first ship qualification trial would get hazed. Usually it was being > > sent to get batteries for the sound-powered phones.... > > My favorite was always sending someone for a bucket of steam....that or a > snipe punch. > Sending the PFY off for a box of Packet Filters is fun. Garlic lube for the Vampire Tap worked once too. :) g. From donm at cts.com Fri Jan 4 15:05:55 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Hazing (was Re: Crescent wrenches ...) In-Reply-To: <02Jan4.063459est.119070@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > On 04-Jan-02, Gordon C. Zaft wrote: > > At 10:04 PM 1/3/2002 -0800, Ron Hudson wrote: > > > >> A true navy story from my Navy days. > > > > When I was a Navy civil servant, every engineer who went out on > > his first ship qualification trial would get hazed. Usually it was being > > sent to get batteries for the sound-powered phones.... > > My favorite was always sending someone for a bucket of steam....that or a > snipe punch. > > Jeff > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Amiga 3000, Cyberstorm MkII 060/50, GVP Spectrum, Xsurf ethernet, > Amiga OS 3.9, 4GB Quantum Fireball, HD floppy, 36MB FastRAM > > http://www.cchaven.com And, how about the "golden rivet"? - don From mhstein at usa.net Fri Jan 4 01:27:03 2002 From: mhstein at usa.net (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:04 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find Message-ID: <01C194C7.56D09EC0@mse-d03> Whoa, can't let that one by: we know what a snowmobile is up here (c'mon, fellow Canucks, back me up on this one!); mind you, if you asked ME what a snowmobile is, I would indeed look at ya kind of funny (oops, funnily, for the language police), since apparently YOU don't know what it is or you wouldn't be asking... But a snow sled??? Who calls it that? Sounds like the SkiDoo trailer. Anyway, one of us invented the thing, so we can call it what we like! So there! :) -----------------Original Message------------------ From: Roger Merchberger [snippage] [more snippage (pronounced snippahdge up here, not snippedge :)] And as it's winter, and we *finally* have snow here, talk to some Western Ontario Canadians and ask them what a "snowmobile" or "snow sled" is - they'll most likely look at you funny, at least for a few seconds until it sinks in. They go "skidooing" in the wintertime. From classiccmp at knm.yi.org Fri Jan 4 07:10:23 2002 From: classiccmp at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: <01C194C7.56D09EC0@mse-d03> Message-ID: Hi, > Whoa, can't let that one by: we know what a snowmobile is up here (c'mon, > fellow Canucks, back me up on this one!); mind you, if you asked ME what > a snowmobile is, I would indeed look at ya kind of funny (oops, funnily, for > the language police), since apparently YOU don't know what it is or you > wouldn't be asking... > > But a snow sled??? Who calls it that? Sounds like the SkiDoo trailer. > > Anyway, one of us invented the thing, so we can call it what we like! Just a second! What's this I see... From: M H Stein A Canuck wuth a usa.net email address? Something screwy there if you ask me, but then again I'm one of those dodgy brits :&) -- Matt --- Web Page: http://knm.yi.org/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ PGP Key fingerprint = 00BF 19FE D5F5 8EAD 2FD5 D102 260E 8BA7 EEE4 8D7F PGP Key http://knm.yi.org/matt-pgp.html From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 09:32:24 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find References: Message-ID: <001201c19535$0223f200$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Odd that you should mention this ... As they've reccently had snow in the southern U.S, where that's a noteable and rare event, youngsters interviewed DO refer to the thing as a "snow" sled, apparently because snow is such a rarity. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt London" To: "'ClassicComputers'" Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:10 AM Subject: Re: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find > Hi, > > > Whoa, can't let that one by: we know what a snowmobile is up here (c'mon, > > fellow Canucks, back me up on this one!); mind you, if you asked ME what > > a snowmobile is, I would indeed look at ya kind of funny (oops, funnily, for > > the language police), since apparently YOU don't know what it is or you > > wouldn't be asking... > > > > But a snow sled??? Who calls it that? Sounds like the SkiDoo trailer. > > > > Anyway, one of us invented the thing, so we can call it what we like! > > Just a second! What's this I see... > From: M H Stein > A Canuck wuth a usa.net email address? Something screwy there if you ask > me, but then again I'm one of those dodgy brits :&) > > -- Matt > > --- > Web Page: > http://knm.yi.org/ > http://pkl.net/~matt/ > > PGP Key fingerprint = 00BF 19FE D5F5 8EAD 2FD5 D102 260E 8BA7 EEE4 8D7F > PGP Key http://knm.yi.org/matt-pgp.html > > From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Jan 4 09:54:56 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: <001201c19535$0223f200$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jan 4, 02 08:32:24 am Message-ID: <200201041554.KAA24795@wordstock.com> > > Odd that you should mention this ... > > As they've reccently had snow in the southern U.S, where that's a noteable > and rare event, youngsters interviewed DO refer to the thing as a "snow" > sled, apparently because snow is such a rarity. HA... And they are *just* learning about the phenomenon known as "black ice". :-D Bryan > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matt London" > To: "'ClassicComputers'" > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:10 AM > Subject: Re: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer > find > > > > Hi, > > > > > Whoa, can't let that one by: we know what a snowmobile is up here > (c'mon, > > > fellow Canucks, back me up on this one!); mind you, if you asked ME what Yes, as a fellow Canuck, I know what a snowmobile is... In the town of 9,500 where I grew up, as soon as there was 3 to 6 cm of snow, everyone would be on their skidoo's. > > > a snowmobile is, I would indeed look at ya kind of funny (oops, funnily, > for > > > the language police), since apparently YOU don't know what it is or you > > > wouldn't be asking... > > > > > > But a snow sled??? Who calls it that? Sounds like the SkiDoo trailer. > > > > > > Anyway, one of us invented the thing, so we can call it what we like! > > > > Just a second! What's this I see... > > From: M H Stein > > A Canuck wuth a usa.net email address? Something screwy there if you ask > > me, but then again I'm one of those dodgy brits :&) > > > > -- Matt From menadeau at mediaone.net Fri Jan 4 10:02:05 2002 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find References: <200201041554.KAA24795@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <016201c19539$2afeca20$0b01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> Wait til they find out about frost heaves. > > > > Odd that you should mention this ... > > > > As they've reccently had snow in the southern U.S, where that's a noteable > > and rare event, youngsters interviewed DO refer to the thing as a "snow" > > sled, apparently because snow is such a rarity. > > HA... And they are *just* learning about the phenomenon known as "black ice". > :-D > > Bryan > > > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Matt London" > > To: "'ClassicComputers'" > > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:10 AM > > Subject: Re: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer > > find > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > Whoa, can't let that one by: we know what a snowmobile is up here > > (c'mon, > > > > fellow Canucks, back me up on this one!); mind you, if you asked ME what > > Yes, as a fellow Canuck, I know what a snowmobile is... In the town of 9,500 > where I grew up, as soon as there was 3 to 6 cm of snow, everyone would be > on their skidoo's. > > > > > > a snowmobile is, I would indeed look at ya kind of funny (oops, funnily, > > for > > > > the language police), since apparently YOU don't know what it is or you > > > > wouldn't be asking... > > > > > > > > But a snow sled??? Who calls it that? Sounds like the SkiDoo trailer. > > > > > > > > Anyway, one of us invented the thing, so we can call it what we like! > > > > > > Just a second! What's this I see... > > > From: M H Stein > > > A Canuck wuth a usa.net email address? Something screwy there if you ask > > > me, but then again I'm one of those dodgy brits :&) > > > > > > -- Matt > From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 4 10:48:19 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find References: <200201041554.KAA24795@wordstock.com> <016201c19539$2afeca20$0b01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> Message-ID: <3C35DCD3.B957623E@verizon.net> I'm here in snowed out South Eastern US and I know about "black ice" and "Bridge Freezes Before Roadway" but what are "Frost Heaves"? I could have done without this snow. I needed to make a trip down to GA and possibly FLA that has to be delayed. Michael Nadeau wrote: > > Wait til they find out about frost heaves. > > > > > > > Odd that you should mention this ... > > > > > > As they've reccently had snow in the southern U.S, where that's a > noteable > > > and rare event, youngsters interviewed DO refer to the thing as a "snow" > > > sled, apparently because snow is such a rarity. > > > > HA... And they are *just* learning about the phenomenon known as "black > ice". > > :-D > > > > Bryan > > > > > > > > > > Dick > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Matt London" > > > To: "'ClassicComputers'" > > > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:10 AM > > > Subject: Re: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color > Printer > > > find > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > Whoa, can't let that one by: we know what a snowmobile is up here > > > (c'mon, > > > > > fellow Canucks, back me up on this one!); mind you, if you asked ME > what > > > > Yes, as a fellow Canuck, I know what a snowmobile is... In the town of > 9,500 > > where I grew up, as soon as there was 3 to 6 cm of snow, everyone would be > > on their skidoo's. > > > > > > > > > a snowmobile is, I would indeed look at ya kind of funny (oops, > funnily, > > > for > > > > > the language police), since apparently YOU don't know what it is or > you > > > > > wouldn't be asking... > > > > > > > > > > But a snow sled??? Who calls it that? Sounds like the SkiDoo > trailer. > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, one of us invented the thing, so we can call it what we > like! > > > > > > > > Just a second! What's this I see... > > > > From: M H Stein > > > > A Canuck wuth a usa.net email address? Something screwy there if you > ask > > > > me, but then again I'm one of those dodgy brits :&) > > > > > > > > -- Matt > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 10:28:10 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find References: <200201041554.KAA24795@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <004f01c1953c$cc955680$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> OOOHH! I'd rather forget about that. When I lived out in the country, the first intersection with a major highway that I encountered each day was with a 4-lane-divided that parallelled our "major" river. A few miles downstream lay the Ft. St. Vrain Nuclear Plant, which was credtited with considerable thermal pollution, one effect of which was a heavy fog bank several miles up as well as down the river. One side-effect of this fog bank was a layer of ice on the 4-lane, that claimed several lives each year at the very intersection where I got on and off the 4-lane every time I drove that way. On the worst occasions, visibility was not sufficient even to allow one to venture to the space between the dividers. Even when signals were installed there, which wasn't until after the Nuclear plant had been shut down, and after I moved away from that area, visibility was sometimes so poor one couldn't see the signals when waiting for them to change. It was awful, and took a terrible toll on account of the ice. Overdriving their visibility and trying to outrun trains seemed to take plenty of young lives every year. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Pope" To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 8:54 AM Subject: Re: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find > > > > Odd that you should mention this ... > > > > As they've reccently had snow in the southern U.S, where that's a noteable > > and rare event, youngsters interviewed DO refer to the thing as a "snow" > > sled, apparently because snow is such a rarity. > > HA... And they are *just* learning about the phenomenon known as "black ice". > :-D > > Bryan > > > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Matt London" > > To: "'ClassicComputers'" > > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:10 AM > > Subject: Re: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer > > find > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > Whoa, can't let that one by: we know what a snowmobile is up here > > (c'mon, > > > > fellow Canucks, back me up on this one!); mind you, if you asked ME what > > Yes, as a fellow Canuck, I know what a snowmobile is... In the town of 9,500 > where I grew up, as soon as there was 3 to 6 cm of snow, everyone would be > on their skidoo's. > > > > > > a snowmobile is, I would indeed look at ya kind of funny (oops, funnily, > > for > > > > the language police), since apparently YOU don't know what it is or you > > > > wouldn't be asking... > > > > > > > > But a snow sled??? Who calls it that? Sounds like the SkiDoo trailer. > > > > > > > > Anyway, one of us invented the thing, so we can call it what we like! > > > > > > Just a second! What's this I see... > > > From: M H Stein > > > A Canuck wuth a usa.net email address? Something screwy there if you ask > > > me, but then again I'm one of those dodgy brits :&) > > > > > > -- Matt > > From fernande at internet1.net Fri Jan 4 12:37:01 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find References: <001201c19535$0223f200$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3C35F64D.48DDBAEE@internet1.net> Dick, are you sure they weren't talking about they type of sled that you ride down a snowy hill? That is what I think of when I hear "snow sled". Normally, I'd just call it a sled, However. Chad Fernandez Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Odd that you should mention this ... > > As they've reccently had snow in the southern U.S, where that's a noteable > and rare event, youngsters interviewed DO refer to the thing as a "snow" > sled, apparently because snow is such a rarity. > > Dick From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Jan 4 13:00:55 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: <3C35F64D.48DDBAEE@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Jan 4, 02 01:37:01 pm Message-ID: <200201041900.OAA00652@wordstock.com> We called that a "tobaggan" in Canada (well at least Southern Ontario) and you went "tobagganing" with it. Anyone know where the Molson Muscle is located? ;) Bryan > > Dick, are you sure they weren't talking about they type of sled that you > ride down a snowy hill? That is what I think of when I hear "snow > sled". Normally, I'd just call it a sled, However. > > Chad Fernandez > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > Odd that you should mention this ... > > > > As they've reccently had snow in the southern U.S, where that's a noteable > > and rare event, youngsters interviewed DO refer to the thing as a "snow" > > sled, apparently because snow is such a rarity. > > > > Dick > From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri Jan 4 10:51:54 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467477@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! From: Lawrence Walker [mailto:lgwalker@mts.net] ! ! And then there is "Leatherman" the modern eqivalent of the ! "Swiss Army Knife" of which there is no eqivalent I know ! qualitywise altho the quality is declining as demand increases. ! ! Lawrence Well, about 3 years ago, I got the Buck Knives Co. version of the Leatherman, called the "BuckTool". (Duh, real creative name there...) http://www.buckknives.com/products/details.php?ID=64 Still strong, hasn't loosened up at all. Great thing to have around on your belt. Especially for emergency work on computers... The quality of that is at least as good as the Leatherman. IMHO the design, on the other hand, is definitely better. Especially when it is opend to the 'pliers' position... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri Jan 4 11:20:08 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146747B@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Well, a quick explanation of a frost heave... (from CT :-) Water seeps through a crack in the road, and gets trapped underneath. The water then freezes, and expands, which "heaves" the asphalt above it up into a bump. Whats worse is when the ice underneath melts, but the asphalt doesn't come back into shape quick enough. A vehicle hits the bump, and busts the bubble that's left. Now you have a pot-hole... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Ian Koller ! ! I'm here in snowed out South Eastern US and I know ! about "black ice" and "Bridge Freezes Before Roadway" ! but what are "Frost Heaves"? ! ! I could have done without this snow. I needed to make ! a trip down to GA and possibly FLA that has to be delayed. ! ! ! ! ! Michael Nadeau wrote: ! > ! > Wait til they find out about frost heaves. ! > ! > > > ! > > > Odd that you should mention this ... ! > > > ! > > > As they've reccently had snow in the southern U.S, ! where that's a ! > noteable ! > > > and rare event, youngsters interviewed DO refer to the ! thing as a "snow" ! > > > sled, apparently because snow is such a rarity. ! > > ! > > HA... And they are *just* learning about the phenomenon ! known as "black ! > ice". ! > > :-D ! > > ! > > Bryan ! > > ! > > ! > > > ! > > > Dick ! > > > ! > > > ----- Original Message ----- ! > > > From: "Matt London" ! > > > To: "'ClassicComputers'" ! > > > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:10 AM ! > > > Subject: Re: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: ! NEXT Color ! > Printer ! > > > find ! > > > ! > > > ! > > > > Hi, ! > > > > ! > > > > > Whoa, can't let that one by: we know what a ! snowmobile is up here ! > > > (c'mon, ! > > > > > fellow Canucks, back me up on this one!); mind you, ! if you asked ME ! > what ! > > ! > > Yes, as a fellow Canuck, I know what a snowmobile is... ! In the town of ! > 9,500 ! > > where I grew up, as soon as there was 3 to 6 cm of snow, ! everyone would be ! > > on their skidoo's. ! > > ! > > ! > > > > > a snowmobile is, I would indeed look at ya kind of ! funny (oops, ! > funnily, ! > > > for ! > > > > > the language police), since apparently YOU don't ! know what it is or ! > you ! > > > > > wouldn't be asking... ! > > > > > ! > > > > > But a snow sled??? Who calls it that? Sounds like the SkiDoo ! > trailer. ! > > > > > ! > > > > > Anyway, one of us invented the thing, so we can ! call it what we ! > like! ! > > > > ! > > > > Just a second! What's this I see... ! > > > > From: M H Stein ! > > > > A Canuck wuth a usa.net email address? Something ! screwy there if you ! > ask ! > > > > me, but then again I'm one of those dodgy brits :&) ! > > > > ! > > > > -- Matt ! > > ! From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 4 12:24:13 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printerfind References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146747B@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <3C35F34D.857012FD@verizon.net> Ahhh ... could be rough on the running gear. Yes, we don't see that much around here. I have seen roads heave due to thermal expansion of the road surface though, when for some reason or other, the expansion joints didn't do their job properly. David Woyciesjes wrote: > > Well, a quick explanation of a frost heave... (from CT :-) > > Water seeps through a crack in the road, and gets trapped > underneath. The water then freezes, and expands, which "heaves" the asphalt > above it up into a bump. > Whats worse is when the ice underneath melts, but the asphalt > doesn't come back into shape quick enough. A vehicle hits the bump, and > busts the bubble that's left. Now you have a pot-hole... > > --- David A Woyciesjes > --- C & IS Support Specialist > --- Yale University Press > --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu > --- (203) 432-0953 > --- ICQ # - 905818 > > ! -----Original Message----- > ! From: Ian Koller > ! > ! I'm here in snowed out South Eastern US and I know > ! about "black ice" and "Bridge Freezes Before Roadway" > ! but what are "Frost Heaves"? > ! > ! I could have done without this snow. I needed to make > ! a trip down to GA and possibly FLA that has to be delayed. > ! > ! > ! > ! > ! Michael Nadeau wrote: > ! > > ! > Wait til they find out about frost heaves. > ! > > ! > > > > ! > > > Odd that you should mention this ... > ! > > > > ! > > > As they've reccently had snow in the southern U.S, > ! where that's a > ! > noteable > ! > > > and rare event, youngsters interviewed DO refer to the > ! thing as a "snow" > ! > > > sled, apparently because snow is such a rarity. > ! > > > ! > > HA... And they are *just* learning about the phenomenon > ! known as "black > ! > ice". > ! > > :-D > ! > > > ! > > Bryan > ! > > > ! > > > ! > > > > ! > > > Dick > ! > > > > ! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > ! > > > From: "Matt London" > ! > > > To: "'ClassicComputers'" > ! > > > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:10 AM > ! > > > Subject: Re: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: > ! NEXT Color > ! > Printer > ! > > > find > ! > > > > ! > > > > ! > > > > Hi, > ! > > > > > ! > > > > > Whoa, can't let that one by: we know what a > ! snowmobile is up here > ! > > > (c'mon, > ! > > > > > fellow Canucks, back me up on this one!); mind you, > ! if you asked ME > ! > what > ! > > > ! > > Yes, as a fellow Canuck, I know what a snowmobile is... > ! In the town of > ! > 9,500 > ! > > where I grew up, as soon as there was 3 to 6 cm of snow, > ! everyone would be > ! > > on their skidoo's. > ! > > > ! > > > ! > > > > > a snowmobile is, I would indeed look at ya kind of > ! funny (oops, > ! > funnily, > ! > > > for > ! > > > > > the language police), since apparently YOU don't > ! know what it is or > ! > you > ! > > > > > wouldn't be asking... > ! > > > > > > ! > > > > > But a snow sled??? Who calls it that? Sounds like the SkiDoo > ! > trailer. > ! > > > > > > ! > > > > > Anyway, one of us invented the thing, so we can > ! call it what we > ! > like! > ! > > > > > ! > > > > Just a second! What's this I see... > ! > > > > From: M H Stein > ! > > > > A Canuck wuth a usa.net email address? Something > ! screwy there if you > ! > ask > ! > > > > me, but then again I'm one of those dodgy brits :&) > ! > > > > > ! > > > > -- Matt > ! > > > ! From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jan 4 12:07:52 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225C92@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > From: Douglas Quebbeman > > > Heh. Mexican speed wrench... > > Funny, I've always heard it referred to as a *Kentucky* speed > wrench ;>) I like that even better! But down yonder, they have to be carefull with them, after all, they *really* hurt when they're dropped on bare feet... ;) -dq From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Jan 4 13:32:06 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225C92@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: > > > From: Douglas Quebbeman > > > > > Heh. Mexican speed wrench... > > > > Funny, I've always heard it referred to as a *Kentucky* speed > > wrench ;>) > > I like that even better! But down yonder, they have > to be carefull with them, after all, they *really* > hurt when they're dropped on bare feet... > > ;) > Really. It might mash one of those 6th toes... :) g. From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Jan 4 15:35:57 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: <01C194C7.56D09EC0@mse-d03> Message-ID: <3C35CBDD.21614.431A86B@localhost> Well where I'm living now is prime snowmobile territory. They're as obligatory as pick-up trucks and more common than motorcycles. When I grew up out here in the 40's the multi-passenger ones were called "Bombadeers" from the name of the company who made them, Bombardier, and who later introduced "Ski-Doos" the motorcycle of snowmobiles. I was surprised to find when I returned that locals still call the larger models Bombadeers. Lawrence > Whoa, can't let that one by: we know what a snowmobile is up here (c'mon, > fellow Canucks, back me up on this one!); mind you, if you asked ME what > a snowmobile is, I would indeed look at ya kind of funny (oops, funnily, for the > language police), since apparently YOU don't know what it is or you wouldn't be > asking... > > But a snow sled??? Who calls it that? Sounds like the SkiDoo trailer. > > Anyway, one of us invented the thing, so we can call it what we like! > > So there! > > :) > > -----------------Original Message------------------ > From: Roger Merchberger > > [snippage] > > [more snippage (pronounced snippahdge up here, not snippedge :)] > > And as it's winter, and we *finally* have snow here, talk to some Western > Ontario Canadians and ask them what a "snowmobile" or "snow sled" is - > they'll most likely look at you funny, at least for a few seconds until it sinks > in. They go "skidooing" in the wintertime. > > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From csmith at amdocs.com Thu Jan 3 12:39:45 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: New art-form requires no precision (Was: Trailing-edge compute fa rm seeks gainful employment) Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E071@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Golemancd@aol.com [mailto:Golemancd@aol.com] > sometimes i forget that computer folks r technical people. > i come from the arts where the only thing that is needed is > understanding. > i am on stage sometimes and all the musicians do is > just nod or look at each other and everyone understands them. > will try and and be more precise. i guess here that is needed. Ok, this will be slightly OT: Do you draw -- paint -- play music? What "arts" are these where precision is not needed? Being an artist and musician, myself, I would really like to know. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From allain at panix.com Thu Jan 3 12:40:09 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: OT: Not P.C. hack-ob References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146745A@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> <3C343D7D.DA4B878F@verizon.net> Message-ID: <00b201c19486$1276f940$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > ! Of all sites to get hacked, The National Cathedral. Click on: > ! > ! and check out the mouse-over effect for the "Discover" link :-) http://www.cathedral.org/cathedral/discover/images/discover.jpg Not hacked! I just checked and apparently this is one of 110 gargoyles, and is actually there. The Cath. was completed only 10 years ago and this is one of a winning student design contest entries*. I haven't actually seen it for myself, yet. The oddity of it may get me there sooner than if they didn't have it. John A. *grammar fault From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Jan 3 14:18:50 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: OT: Not P.C. hack-ob In-Reply-To: <00b201c19486$1276f940$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: > > ! Of all sites to get hacked, The National Cathedral. Click on: > > ! > > ! and check out the mouse-over effect for the "Discover" link :-) > > http://www.cathedral.org/cathedral/discover/images/discover.jpg > > Not hacked! > I just checked and apparently this is one of 110 gargoyles, and is > actually there. The Cath. was completed only 10 years ago and > this is one of a winning student design contest entries*. > I haven't actually seen it for myself, yet. > The oddity of it may get me there sooner than if they didn't have it. > Just think what some poor, overworked anthropologist is going to make of that sucker in a thousand years. :) g. From rhudson at cnonline.net Thu Jan 3 12:44:31 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: OT- Job Seeking Message-ID: <3C34A68F.9040107@cnonline.net> Hi, I was laid off last november and I am still looking for work. I am a novell network administrator, and help desk support person. I have some hardware experience as well. If the place where you work is hiring my sort of person, please let me know. I am also looking for any short term 'warm body' type job in the San Jose, Sunnyvale, MT. View area. Thanks! Sorry for the off topic.... From rhblakeman at kih.net Thu Jan 3 16:11:55 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: OT- Job Seeking In-Reply-To: <3C34A68F.9040107@cnonline.net> Message-ID: Tried Monster.com for your area? Lots of permanent as well as "temp-to-hire" positions in it, even in this podunk area of KY so the CA should have plenty for you -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ron Hudson Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 12:45 PM To: Classic Computers Mailing list; Apple II List Subject: OT- Job Seeking Hi, I was laid off last november and I am still looking for work. I am a novell network administrator, and help desk support person. I have some hardware experience as well. If the place where you work is hiring my sort of person, please let me know. I am also looking for any short term 'warm body' type job in the San Jose, Sunnyvale, MT. View area. Thanks! Sorry for the off topic.... From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Jan 4 00:07:46 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: OT- Job Seeking References: Message-ID: <3C3546B2.8020307@cnonline.net> Yes, thanks. Also Jobs.com, The state EDD job site. Sent off lots of resumes with no reply, all kinds of things like that. Russ Blakeman wrote: > Tried Monster.com for your area? Lots of permanent as well as "temp-to-hire" > positions in it, even in this podunk area of KY so the CA should have plenty > for you From allain at panix.com Thu Jan 3 12:48:34 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment References: <002001c19469$9f4bb3a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <00c001c19487$3f8ebf20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > kids who can't read and write are trying to send messages in text > on their cellphones, since they don't really have anything to say, either. 'It's those 5000 **Free** anytime minutes. Gotta usem up, man. I pay $45 a month.' --Insigt gained watching shoppers talking into their hands several times this Christmas. John A. From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 3 13:33:26 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: <00c001c19487$3f8ebf20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, John Allain wrote: > 'It's those 5000 **Free** anytime minutes. > Gotta usem up, man. I pay $45 a month.' > > --Insigt gained watching shoppers talking into > their hands several times this Christmas. Bah! A cell phone is a lot like a hard-hat. A necessary nuisance that's part of my job. I watched a guy in L.A. this year walk into a very expensive restaurant ahead of me with his phone attached to his ear. He was seated at the table next to me, and ordered, ate, and paid for his meal without ever interrupting the conversation. It took him 3 or 4 minutes to order, because he literally never stopped talking. In whose world is it acceptable to A) carry on a conversation while your waiter stands there? B) carry on a phone conversation with your mouth full? or C) insult a really good meal by shoveling it in while you do business? Mobile communication is a bane. Doc From csmith at amdocs.com Thu Jan 3 12:50:17 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E072@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' > -----Original Message----- > From: John Foust [mailto:jfoust@threedee.com] > And keep in mind that the musicians only *think* they're > communicating. :-) Insert drummer joke here. Ahh -- so what _do_ you call a guy who hangs around with a bunch of musicians? Regards, Chris From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 3 13:33:15 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Musicians (and computer music) (was RE: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment) In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E072@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <20020103193315.86711.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com> --- Christopher Smith wrote: > Ahh -- so what _do_ you call a guy who hangs around with a bunch of > musicians? Lead singer? Q. What is the difference between a Jazz musician and a large pepperoni pizza? A. A large pepperoni pizza can feed a family of four. -ethan (who was raised by musicians) ObClassic: Does anyone have any software for making music on the PET with *other* than CB2 sound? I had a buddy with a clip-on user port music card - it was an 8-bit D-to-A like a Disney Sound Source. The PET shoved bytes out the user port and they appoximated music. I can't remember what it was called. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Jan 3 12:55:13 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 03 Jan 2002 01:06:28 EST." <150.6a81bde.29654ee4@aol.com> Message-ID: <200201031855.SAA23791@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Golemancd@aol.com said: > sometimes i forget that computer folks r technical people. > i come from the arts where the only thing that is needed is > understanding. > i am on stage sometimes and all the musicians do is > just nod or look at each other and everyone understands them. Yes, but they try to use established conventions for note pitches, time signatures, keys, chord structures and all the other syntax of musical language...you'd have to in my band anyway ;-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 3 13:05:05 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: <136.6bf349d.2965838e@aol.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Jan 2002 Golemancd@aol.com wrote: > This is becoming a pretty silly thread because there can be > understanding > without proper grammer ; if we are being technical here. Sure there is ^ -- > meaning, > u just dont understand it. ^ You > The real story here is this is pretty much a none issue since what i ^ I > am saying and pretty much what everyone is saying here, is just to enjoy a > hobby. To worry about someones ideas to the point that it bothers u defeats ^ You > the purpose of a hobby; to have fun or to enjoy yourself. If you cant ^ ^ : ' > understand something ; it doesnt matter. This is not a business or the F.B.I ^ , > ; it is just a hobby. ^ . I > I get your point. I do use a lot of shorthand and because this is a > hobby > i dont focus very much on my grammer. If u see me post then dont read it. ^ ^ ^^^^^^^ ^ ^ I ' grammar you ' > That is all that i have to say about this matter. ^ I > joee ^ J > P.S i hope the grammer helps you understand this. ^ ^^^^^^^ I grammar Overall grade: D+ Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Jan 3 15:16:54 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > ^ > I > > > joee > ^ > J > > > P.S i hope the grammer helps you understand this. > ^ ^^^^^^^ > > I grammar > > Overall grade: D+ > You forgot the full grade reduction as a penalty for being a patron of AOL. F+. g. From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 4 04:32:10 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment References: Message-ID: <3C3584AA.53081124@verizon.net> You all are terrible. It seems like he really made everyone's day by providing something new to bitch about. Personally, I understood what he had written with no undue level of extra effort required. I'm not a religious person, but have always remembered ( though not word for word ) a couple of quotes. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone? Judge not, lest ye be judged ( or something like that )? Everyone in this world may not have had the level of opportunity ( in education, employment, etc. ) that many of you have had. Before coming down on him so hard, I would at least be willing to consider "his story"? Gene Buckle wrote: > > > ^ > > I > > > > > joee > > ^ > > J > > > > > P.S i hope the grammer helps you understand this. > > ^ ^^^^^^^ > > > > I grammar > > > > Overall grade: D+ > > > > You forgot the full grade reduction as a penalty for being a patron of > AOL. F+. > > g. From at258 at osfn.org Fri Jan 4 08:59:06 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: <3C3584AA.53081124@verizon.net> Message-ID: Not quite, we are still waiting for his story, if he has one. Further and more to the point, he has been agressively ignorant, and arrogant about it. We're keen to be understanding and supportive when he's ready for it. At the moment, it looks very much like he's not. On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote: > > > You all are terrible. It seems like he really made > everyone's day by providing something new to bitch > about. Personally, I understood what he had written > with no undue level of extra effort required. > > I'm not a religious person, but have always remembered > ( though not word for word ) a couple of quotes. > > Let he who is without sin cast the first stone? > > Judge not, lest ye be judged ( or something like that )? > > Everyone in this world may not have had the level of > opportunity ( in education, employment, etc. ) that > many of you have had. Before coming down on him so hard, > I would at least be willing to consider "his story"? > > > > Gene Buckle wrote: > > > > > ^ > > > I > > > > > > > joee > > > ^ > > > J > > > > > > > P.S i hope the grammer helps you understand this. > > > ^ ^^^^^^^ > > > > > > I grammar > > > > > > Overall grade: D+ > > > > > > > You forgot the full grade reduction as a penalty for being a patron of > > AOL. F+. > > > > g. > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 4 10:37:38 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment References: Message-ID: <3C35DA51.BE3E84EF@verizon.net> > Further and more to the point, he has been agressively ignorant, > and arrogant about it. He was under "attack" and being ganged up on. And it was even getting personal. I think there would be more than one that would adopt a defensive posture under such circumstances. This list seemed to display a "mob psychology" response, where individually, many who might have tried to helpfully suggest he better compose his messages into a more proper form, collectively as a "mob", many were ready to pick up and cast another stone. I don't think I really saw anyone try to suggest "nicely" that he better format his messages. And, while I can't say that I know for sure, he might be one of the nicest people you ever met. Perhaps someday he might do you that special favor and pickup a piece of hardware for you, or look something up in a manual that only he has, or whatever, if you haven't alienated him over a fairly trivial issue. "Merle K. Peirce" wrote: > > Not quite, we are still waiting for his story, if he has one. > > Further and more to the point, he has been agressively ignorant, and > arrogant about it. > > We're keen to be understanding and supportive when he's ready for it. At > the moment, it looks very much like he's not. > > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote: > > > > > > > You all are terrible. It seems like he really made > > everyone's day by providing something new to bitch > > about. Personally, I understood what he had written > > with no undue level of extra effort required. > > > > I'm not a religious person, but have always remembered > > ( though not word for word ) a couple of quotes. > > > > Let he who is without sin cast the first stone? > > > > Judge not, lest ye be judged ( or something like that )? > > > > Everyone in this world may not have had the level of > > opportunity ( in education, employment, etc. ) that > > many of you have had. Before coming down on him so hard, > > I would at least be willing to consider "his story"? > > > > > > > > Gene Buckle wrote: > > > > > > > ^ > > > > I > > > > > > > > > joee > > > > ^ > > > > J > > > > > > > > > P.S i hope the grammer helps you understand this. > > > > ^ ^^^^^^^ > > > > > > > > I grammar > > > > > > > > Overall grade: D+ > > > > > > > > > > You forgot the full grade reduction as a penalty for being a patron of > > > AOL. F+. > > > > > > g. > > > > M. K. Peirce > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid From at258 at osfn.org Fri Jan 4 11:42:54 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: <3C35DA51.BE3E84EF@verizon.net> Message-ID: He is reformatting his responses. And I hope is a wonderful person. He probably is, but he wasn't expressing himself well at all. Besides, I hardly think functional illiteracy is a trivial matter. If he wants to use a style redolent of Cummings, fine, as long as he is clear about things. "i sing of olaf glad and big", which is about the only line I can remember besides "my father walked through dooms of love." On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote: > > > > Further and more to the point, he has been agressively ignorant, > > and arrogant about it. > > He was under "attack" and being ganged up on. And it was > even getting personal. I think there would be more than one > that would adopt a defensive posture under such circumstances. > > This list seemed to display a "mob psychology" response, where > individually, many who might have tried to helpfully suggest he > better compose his messages into a more proper form, collectively > as a "mob", many were ready to pick up and cast another stone. > I don't think I really saw anyone try to suggest "nicely" > that he better format his messages. > > And, while I can't say that I know for sure, he might be > one of the nicest people you ever met. Perhaps someday he > might do you that special favor and pickup a piece of hardware > for you, or look something up in a manual that only he has, > or whatever, if you haven't alienated him over a fairly > trivial issue. > > > > "Merle K. Peirce" wrote: > > > > Not quite, we are still waiting for his story, if he has one. > > > > Further and more to the point, he has been agressively ignorant, and > > arrogant about it. > > > > We're keen to be understanding and supportive when he's ready for it. At > > the moment, it looks very much like he's not. > > > > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > You all are terrible. It seems like he really made > > > everyone's day by providing something new to bitch > > > about. Personally, I understood what he had written > > > with no undue level of extra effort required. > > > > > > I'm not a religious person, but have always remembered > > > ( though not word for word ) a couple of quotes. > > > > > > Let he who is without sin cast the first stone? > > > > > > Judge not, lest ye be judged ( or something like that )? > > > > > > Everyone in this world may not have had the level of > > > opportunity ( in education, employment, etc. ) that > > > many of you have had. Before coming down on him so hard, > > > I would at least be willing to consider "his story"? > > > > > > > > > > > > Gene Buckle wrote: > > > > > > > > > ^ > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > joee > > > > > ^ > > > > > J > > > > > > > > > > > P.S i hope the grammer helps you understand this. > > > > > ^ ^^^^^^^ > > > > > > > > > > I grammar > > > > > > > > > > Overall grade: D+ > > > > > > > > > > > > > You forgot the full grade reduction as a penalty for being a patron of > > > > AOL. F+. > > > > > > > > g. > > > > > > > M. K. Peirce > > > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > > > - Ovid > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Jan 4 10:13:16 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: <3C3584AA.53081124@verizon.net> Message-ID: > You all are terrible. It seems like he really made > everyone's day by providing something new to bitch > about. Personally, I understood what he had written > with no undue level of extra effort required. > That just means you can parse Idiot better than we can. Personally, it gives me a headache. > I'm not a religious person, but have always remembered > ( though not word for word ) a couple of quotes. > > Let he who is without sin cast the first stone? > > Judge not, lest ye be judged ( or something like that )? > How about: "Stupid people suck."? > Everyone in this world may not have had the level of > opportunity ( in education, employment, etc. ) that > many of you have had. Before coming down on him so hard, > I would at least be willing to consider "his story"? > Level of "opportunity" my butt. He got whatever opportunity he made for himself. Anything else is entitlement-minded whining. He's a lazy communicator and is getting slapped around for it. Deal. g. From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 4 10:37:27 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment References: Message-ID: <3C35DA47.6B39B8F5@verizon.net> > He's a lazy communicator and is getting slapped around for it. His "style" was definately different than the "norm" for this list. And he might have received better responses if he had followed the old adage of "When in Rome, do as the Romans do". But here in the US we are supposed to have freedom of speech, such that I may not agree with what you say, nor may I even agree with how you say it, but I might defend to the death your right to do so? > How about: "Stupid people suck."? This is not constructive. Gene Buckle wrote: > > > You all are terrible. It seems like he really made > > everyone's day by providing something new to bitch > > about. Personally, I understood what he had written > > with no undue level of extra effort required. > > > That just means you can parse Idiot better than we can. Personally, it > gives me a headache. > > > I'm not a religious person, but have always remembered > > ( though not word for word ) a couple of quotes. > > > > Let he who is without sin cast the first stone? > > > > Judge not, lest ye be judged ( or something like that )? > > > How about: "Stupid people suck."? > > > Everyone in this world may not have had the level of > > opportunity ( in education, employment, etc. ) that > > many of you have had. Before coming down on him so hard, > > I would at least be willing to consider "his story"? > > > Level of "opportunity" my butt. He got whatever opportunity he made for > himself. Anything else is entitlement-minded whining. He's a lazy > communicator and is getting slapped around for it. Deal. > > g. From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 11:20:27 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment References: <3C35DA47.6B39B8F5@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000d01c19544$1a430880$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Apparently, you and he use the same spell-checker. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Koller" To: ; "Merle K. Peirce" ; Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 9:37 AM Subject: Re: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment > > > > He's a lazy communicator and is getting slapped around for it. > > His "style" was definately different than the "norm" for > this list. And he might have received better responses > if he had followed the old adage of "When in Rome, do as the > Romans do". But here in the US we are supposed to have > freedom of speech, such that I may not agree with what you > say, nor may I even agree with how you say it, but I might > defend to the death your right to do so? > > > How about: "Stupid people suck."? > > This is not constructive. > > > > Gene Buckle wrote: > > > > > You all are terrible. It seems like he really made > > > everyone's day by providing something new to bitch > > > about. Personally, I understood what he had written > > > with no undue level of extra effort required. > > > > > That just means you can parse Idiot better than we can. Personally, it > > gives me a headache. > > > > > I'm not a religious person, but have always remembered > > > ( though not word for word ) a couple of quotes. > > > > > > Let he who is without sin cast the first stone? > > > > > > Judge not, lest ye be judged ( or something like that )? > > > > > How about: "Stupid people suck."? > > > > > Everyone in this world may not have had the level of > > > opportunity ( in education, employment, etc. ) that > > > many of you have had. Before coming down on him so hard, > > > I would at least be willing to consider "his story"? > > > > > Level of "opportunity" my butt. He got whatever opportunity he made for > > himself. Anything else is entitlement-minded whining. He's a lazy > > communicator and is getting slapped around for it. Deal. > > > > g. > > From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 4 12:58:27 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment References: <3C35DA47.6B39B8F5@verizon.net> <000d01c19544$1a430880$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3C35FB53.73AF7D00@verizon.net> Dick, I don't use a spell checker, because, quite frankly, it is an extremely rare event that I misspell a word. Now, which word is it that I misspelled that makes you say this? Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Apparently, you and he use the same spell-checker. > > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Koller" > To: ; "Merle K. Peirce" ; > > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 9:37 AM > Subject: Re: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment > > > > > > > > He's a lazy communicator and is getting slapped around for it. > > > > His "style" was definately different than the "norm" for > > this list. And he might have received better responses > > if he had followed the old adage of "When in Rome, do as the > > Romans do". But here in the US we are supposed to have > > freedom of speech, such that I may not agree with what you > > say, nor may I even agree with how you say it, but I might > > defend to the death your right to do so? > > > > > How about: "Stupid people suck."? > > > > This is not constructive. > > > > > > > > Gene Buckle wrote: > > > > > > > You all are terrible. It seems like he really made > > > > everyone's day by providing something new to bitch > > > > about. Personally, I understood what he had written > > > > with no undue level of extra effort required. > > > > > > > That just means you can parse Idiot better than we can. Personally, it > > > gives me a headache. > > > > > > > I'm not a religious person, but have always remembered > > > > ( though not word for word ) a couple of quotes. > > > > > > > > Let he who is without sin cast the first stone? > > > > > > > > Judge not, lest ye be judged ( or something like that )? > > > > > > > How about: "Stupid people suck."? > > > > > > > Everyone in this world may not have had the level of > > > > opportunity ( in education, employment, etc. ) that > > > > many of you have had. Before coming down on him so hard, > > > > I would at least be willing to consider "his story"? > > > > > > > Level of "opportunity" my butt. He got whatever opportunity he made for > > > himself. Anything else is entitlement-minded whining. He's a lazy > > > communicator and is getting slapped around for it. Deal. > > > > > > g. > > > > From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Jan 4 12:22:05 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: <3C35DA47.6B39B8F5@verizon.net> Message-ID: You know, I was going to put in this really nice diatribe about how simpering twits like you really annoy people. It then dawned on me that it would be about as useful as holding a physics class for a paramecium(sp) and promptly gave up on the whole idea. May Darwin call you home soon. g. > > > He's a lazy communicator and is getting slapped around for it. > > His "style" was definately different than the "norm" for > this list. And he might have received better responses > if he had followed the old adage of "When in Rome, do as the > Romans do". But here in the US we are supposed to have > freedom of speech, such that I may not agree with what you > say, nor may I even agree with how you say it, but I might > defend to the death your right to do so? > > > How about: "Stupid people suck."? > > This is not constructive. > > > > Gene Buckle wrote: > > > > > You all are terrible. It seems like he really made > > > everyone's day by providing something new to bitch > > > about. Personally, I understood what he had written > > > with no undue level of extra effort required. > > > > > That just means you can parse Idiot better than we can. Personally, it > > gives me a headache. > > > > > I'm not a religious person, but have always remembered > > > ( though not word for word ) a couple of quotes. > > > > > > Let he who is without sin cast the first stone? > > > > > > Judge not, lest ye be judged ( or something like that )? > > > > > How about: "Stupid people suck."? > > > > > Everyone in this world may not have had the level of > > > opportunity ( in education, employment, etc. ) that > > > many of you have had. Before coming down on him so hard, > > > I would at least be willing to consider "his story"? > > > > > Level of "opportunity" my butt. He got whatever opportunity he made for > > himself. Anything else is entitlement-minded whining. He's a lazy > > communicator and is getting slapped around for it. Deal. > > > > g. > > From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Jan 3 13:11:11 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146746C@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! -----Original Message----- ! From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] ! Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 10:05 PM ! To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org ! Subject: Re: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find ! ! ! > ! > ! > ! > > Mainly because people think it's just like a larger ! > > version of the DIY electric drill. ! > > right cutting angles on it) then the workpiece spins ! > > round and removes their fingers... ! > ! > ! > They can rip off a scalp too if you get long hair wrapped up ! > in them. ! ! That applies to lathes and milling machines too. It not a property of ! drill presses only, so it's not a reason why they're ! particularly dangerous. ! ! Anybody who has long hair (or loose clothing) near machine ! tools deserves ! all they get IMHO... ! ! -tony Well, anyone who doesn't pull thier long hair back under a good hat, that is. :) --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Jan 3 20:07:48 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: <3C325221.B413F899@verizon.net> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020103200643.02dac6b8@pc> >Tony Duell wrote: >> Mainly because people think it's just like a larger version of the DIY >> electric drill. They don't bother to clamp the workpiece. They hand-hold >> it, and when the drill bit 'grabs' (especially if they've not ground the >> right cutting angles on it) then the workpiece spins round and removes >> their fingers... Hmm, I have a set of scars on my left hand due to that. I can still line up the scars to match the position they were in when it "bit". - John From csmith at amdocs.com Thu Jan 3 13:12:14 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Any AMIGA users? Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E073@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] > IRRELEVANT. > The discussion was how to make an Amiga disk using a PC. > It can not be done with the stock PC hardware. > Somebody said that it could be done with the stock PC, by using Linux. > THAT IS WRONG. Well, you don't have to shout. :) That statement would obviously be incorrect. (I admit that I missed this assertion the first time around) It can _possibly_ be done with a modified peesee, and it can probably be done with a couple of other machines unmodified (but still using linux and the normal floppy drivers). > The "standard linux floppy disk driver" will operate the > Catweasel card? > (It is NOT a floppy disk controller in terms of BIOS level > interaction.) I was under the impression that it would drive a catweasel card. I was not aware that the card was significantly different than other (normal peesee) floppy interfaces, though, so perhaps I got the wrong idea from somewhere. On the other hand, the linux "floppy driver" is, as I understand it, actually a collection of drivers, and the same code-base may actually be used to handle all manner of strange disk/drive setups. > Or > The "standard linux floppy disk driver" will do stuff that is > impossible > with the PC hardware, without needing the Catweasel? Obviously not. :) Well, not if you're running linux on "PC hardware." If you're running linux on, for instance, a Macintosh, it will read and write 400 and 800k mac disks, which is impossible on "PC hardware." ;) (Let's not get into that again, though...) > It WOULD be possible to write a floppy disk driver for Linux > that could > make use of the Catweasel. But it has, apparently NOT been done, and > therefore suggestions of USING that are inappropriate. True enough, and as I said, I've heard of no special catweasel driver; just that linux would operate the catweasel controller. Since I don't have a catweasel, I can't really verify that. > > Or ... one could write an amiga filesystem for linux. I actually > > wonder why this hasn't been done. > For use with linux on an Amiga? No, for use with hard disks, SCSI removable media, and the like, which could likely be transported without trouble. > Or are you trying to say that writing an amiga filesystem for > Linux, would > permit a PC running Linux to read and write Amiga disksettes without > special hardware? Well, for all I know, Amiga may have had a 1.44MB format which could work, but that's just a guess, based on the fact that Apple's works fine. > Could you also write one for NorthStar-DOS? (hard-sectored) Given a hard sectored drive, I would guess... (Or what about putting a soft-sector drive in the NorthStar?) It's a pretty normal format otherwise, right? > How about one for Apple-DOS? (GCR) That's more difficult. > How about one that reads 8" diskettes in a 5.25" drive? > (Maybe trimming > the edges, and not being able to read some outer tracks :-) Actually you might be able to get by with it in a high density drive, given some way of attaching the disk to the "spindle" of the drive, and provided that you didn't really want to keep the disk anyway (or possibly the drive!), and if you were willing to write mind-numbingly useless special-purpose software. Otherwise, I hear that CompatiCard will drive an 8" floppy ;) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jan 3 15:43:03 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Any AMIGA users? In-Reply-To: Christopher Smith "RE: Any AMIGA users?" (Jan 3, 13:12) References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E073@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <10201032143.ZM16083@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 3, 13:12, Christopher Smith wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] > > The "standard linux floppy disk driver" will operate the > > Catweasel card? > > (It is NOT a floppy disk controller in terms of BIOS level > > interaction.) > > I was under the impression that it would drive a catweasel card. I was not aware that the card was significantly different than other (normal peesee) floppy interfaces, though, so perhaps I got the wrong idea from somewhere. As far as I was able to determine, when I looked into this in the autumn, the only support for the Catweasel under Linux is via a special driver called cwfloppy, NOT the normal floppy driver. This works with Amiga disks (and has limited MS-DOS support) only, and only for the ISA version on x86 and Alpha machines. Quote from the Catweasel page, ISA version section: 'Writing to disks is only possible under Linux at the moment. The drivers are not designed to be easy-to-use. Instead, they are tools "for-freaks-only". You can read disk images from the formats listed above, and single files can be copied from Amiga, PC and C-64 disks.' If you look at the driver homepage, it doesn't even mention C-64 or disk images. There are some additional utilities to allow it to do things with TRS80 disks, though. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From donm at cts.com Thu Jan 3 23:26:56 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Any AMIGA users? In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E073@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] > > > IRRELEVANT. > > The discussion was how to make an Amiga disk using a PC. > > It can not be done with the stock PC hardware. > > Somebody said that it could be done with the stock PC, by using Linux. > > THAT IS WRONG. > > Well, you don't have to shout. :) That statement would obviously be incorrect. (I admit that I missed this assertion the first time around) It can _possibly_ be done with a modified peesee, and it can probably be done with a couple of other machines unmodified (but still using linux and the normal floppy drivers). > > > The "standard linux floppy disk driver" will operate the > > Catweasel card? > > (It is NOT a floppy disk controller in terms of BIOS level > > interaction.) > > I was under the impression that it would drive a catweasel card. I was not aware that the card was significantly different than other (normal peesee) floppy interfaces, though, so perhaps I got the wrong idea from somewhere. > > On the other hand, the linux "floppy driver" is, as I understand it, actually a collection of drivers, and the same code-base may actually be used to handle all manner of strange disk/drive setups. > > > Or > > The "standard linux floppy disk driver" will do stuff that is > > impossible > > with the PC hardware, without needing the Catweasel? > > Obviously not. :) Well, not if you're running linux on "PC hardware." If you're running linux on, for instance, a Macintosh, it will read and write 400 and 800k mac disks, which is impossible on "PC hardware." ;) (Let's not get into that again, though...) > > > It WOULD be possible to write a floppy disk driver for Linux > > that could > > make use of the Catweasel. But it has, apparently NOT been done, and > > therefore suggestions of USING that are inappropriate. > > True enough, and as I said, I've heard of no special catweasel driver; just that linux would operate the catweasel controller. Since I don't have a catweasel, I can't really verify that. > > > > Or ... one could write an amiga filesystem for linux. I actually > > > wonder why this hasn't been done. > > > For use with linux on an Amiga? > > No, for use with hard disks, SCSI removable media, and the like, which could likely be transported without trouble. > > > Or are you trying to say that writing an amiga filesystem for > > Linux, would > > permit a PC running Linux to read and write Amiga disksettes without > > special hardware? > > Well, for all I know, Amiga may have had a 1.44MB format which could work, but that's just a guess, based on the fact that Apple's works fine. > > > Could you also write one for NorthStar-DOS? (hard-sectored) > > Given a hard sectored drive, I would guess... I am unaware of such a thing as a hard sectored drive. It is a controller function. > (Or what about putting a soft-sector drive in the NorthStar?) Change the controller card - and the operating system to support it. It has been done. > It's a pretty normal format otherwise, right? > > > How about one for Apple-DOS? (GCR) > > That's more difficult. Lots! > > How about one that reads 8" diskettes in a 5.25" drive? > > (Maybe trimming > > the edges, and not being able to read some outer tracks :-) > > Actually you might be able to get by with it in a high density > drive, given some way of attaching the disk to the "spindle" of the > drive, and provided that you didn't really want to keep the disk > anyway (or possibly the drive!), and if you were willing to write > mind-numbingly useless special-purpose software. Otherwise, I hear > that CompatiCard will drive an 8" floppy ;) As will a conventional AT FDC. Trouble is, most of them won't read/write single-density (FM). However, some of the XT class clone controllers with an onboard BIOS and selectable BIOS address will drive an 8" drive and do both FM and MFM. - don Regards, > > Chris > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jan 3 14:21:21 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Any AMIGA users? In-Reply-To: from Doc at "Jan 3, 2 10:53:59 am" Message-ID: <200201032021.MAA07564@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Or ... one could write an amiga filesystem for linux. I actually wonder > > why this hasn't been done. > It has. You have to build a kernel with AFFS support, and AFAIK, UAE is > the only way to actually build the fs. You can read amiga disks in > native Linux, if your hardware supports them. Heck, there's even a 1581fs for Commodore 1581 3.5" disks. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism. ----------------- From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jan 3 14:39:18 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:05 2005 Subject: Any AMIGA users? In-Reply-To: <3C34A035.BCB506E9@ccp.com> Message-ID: > > There was a software only PC emulation that ran on the 1000. It was VERY > > slow, but it PASSED the "acid test of PC compatability" (PCW 1?/84 "How > > the clones stack up") On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > That was the transformer software, and it was only semi-compatible with > the PC I thought that the compatability was pretty good! It did a pretty fair job of emulating the BIOS (at least Int 10h and Int 13h) I was able to run XenoCopy-PC on it. From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jan 3 14:41:54 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Any AMIGA users? In-Reply-To: <20020103175235.57020.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > That was the transformer software, and it was only semi-compatible with > > the PC > I never used it, but I don't recall hearing good things. Later, a I guess that I'm the only one who liked it. > third-party company (the makers of "CrossDOS") came out with Cross-PC, Was that "CentraL Coast Software"? From csmith at amdocs.com Thu Jan 3 14:51:36 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Any AMIGA users? Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E075@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Cameron Kaiser [mailto:spectre@stockholm.ptloma.edu] > Heck, there's even a 1581fs for Commodore 1581 3.5" disks. Really? I knew of the drivers that run 1541 drives through the serial port, but hadn't heard of a native FS for anything of the sort. :) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jan 3 21:09:21 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Any AMIGA users? In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E075@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> from Christopher Smith at "Jan 3, 2 02:51:36 pm" Message-ID: <200201040309.TAA29036@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Heck, there's even a 1581fs for Commodore 1581 3.5" disks. > > Really? I knew of the drivers that run 1541 drives through the serial > port, but hadn't heard of a native FS for anything of the sort. :) It's really not that tricky with 1581 3.5" floppies, since the 1581 is an MFM drive. The 1541/1571 disks, being GCR, are a leetle beet more treecky :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Happiness is having a scratch for every itch. -- Ogden Nash ---------------- From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Jan 3 14:58:06 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Any AMIGA users? In-Reply-To: <20020103175235.57020.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3C34A035.BCB506E9@ccp.com> Message-ID: <3C34717E.10834.1951F2CC@localhost> I have a Commodore 2088 Bridgeboard in my 2000. You needed Janus (named after the 2-faced god) to use it or one of several other european programs I found. I also have an MFM drive in it and what I finally figured out was a MSmouse card. I've yet to find the time to get it functioning. I am curious tho as to what's on the PC HD. I guess the original boot-disk had Janus and other configuration data on it. Other than ignoring the 2088 the 2000(not HD model) runs fine. I have a spare 2088 that unless Doc or SuprDave want it, is up for trade. Lawrence > > --- Gary Hildebrand wrote: > > "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > > > > > > OK what was the AMIGA that ran both AMIGA and PC software... > > > > > ... (286 + 68000 ) cpu cards on a PC style box. Did that have a > > > > > special software to write PC disks? > > The hardware solution you are probably referring to is an A2000 and > Commodore Bridge card. The first models were the A2088 with an 8088, > the later model, the A2286, had the '286. Third-parties produced > cards that were faster. They were called bridge cards because they > bridged the Zorro bus (68000-side) to the ISA bus that was present > in every A2000 (and A3000...) but inert. I produce the GG2 Bus+ > bridgecard which has _no_ CPU, but makes the ISA bus available directly > in 68000-address space (shameless plug off...) > > As delivered, the A2088 (and A2286) came with an internal 5.25" floppy. > You would mount the floppy in the one-and-only 5.25" hole in the A2000 > and cable it to the bridge card - that's your A: drive. The provided > software allowed you to display the contents of the display memory > on the bridge card in a window (there was a well-documented interface > between the A2088 and the Zorro bus). You had several ISA slots available, so > you could put in a hard disk controller, a network card, whatever you wanted. I > think you could override the internal emulated display and put in an ISA video > card, but if it was possible, it was not a common arrangement, partially because > you were still limited to using the A2000's keyboard through the bridge card > software, over the Zorro interface (no external keyboard connector). > > There was also a device driver you could buy (later licensed with the > OS) to read/write PC floppies - CrossDOS. I've used it for 720K and > 1.44Mb floppies (with a C= 1/2-speed HD drive). They also produced > CrossMac for reading/writing Mac floppies (HD only, not 400K/800K). > Essentially, it was a filesystem handler and a couple of mount scripts. > The Amiga is friendly when it comes to adding new devices/filesystems. > You get OFS in ROM always, FFS in ROM sometimes and other filesystems > as you desire to add them; completely unlike DOS/Windows. > > > > > > I saw one once - but it was sure slow! > > Yes. For as expensive as they were, they were never at the top end of > the PC performance curve. > > > > On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > > There was a software only PC emulation that ran on the 1000. It was > > > VERY slow, but it PASSED the "acid test of PC compatability" (PCW > > > 1?/84 "How the clones stack up") > > > > > > For a while, they gave it free with the purchase of the external > > > 5.25" drive. > > > > That was the transformer software, and it was only semi-compatible with > > the PC > > I never used it, but I don't recall hearing good things. Later, a > third-party company (the makers of "CrossDOS") came out with Cross-PC, > a reasonable software approximation of a real PC... some of the versions > even supported real ISA cards over the GG2 Bus+. Kinda neat, really... > a fake PC with real hardware - like hanging a Unibus off your PC and > running E-11. > > -ethan > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > http://greetings.yahoo.com Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 3 16:47:00 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Any AMIGA users? References: Message-ID: <3C34DF64.68C36A95@verizon.net> Fred, > How about one that reads 8" diskettes in a 5.25" drive? (Maybe trimming > the edges, and not being able to read some outer tracks :-) That was good. That one really cracked me up. "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > > Certainly the PC hardware, regardless of OS or other software > > > can NOT do > > > Amiga. > > > Can the Linux catweasel drivers actually use the catweasel as its disk > > > controller for the file system? Or is this an issue that the > > > catweasel > > > software (that does NOT work at a filesystem level) can also RUN under > > > linux? > > On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > Right, but remember that linux won't run only on peesees. :) Linux on > > a power-mac (or amiga!) will likely produce bit-for-bit copies of > > amiga disks just fine. > > IRRELEVANT. > The discussion was how to make an Amiga disk using a PC. > It can not be done with the stock PC hardware. > Somebody said that it could be done with the stock PC, by using Linux. > THAT IS WRONG. > > > Also, I think it's the standard linux floppy disk driver, which is > > pretty flexible, and not a special "catweasel" driver, so it would be > > handled just the same as a standard floppy setup. So I guess you > > could write ext2 filesystems to 880k floppies if you want ;) > > The "standard linux floppy disk driver" will operate the Catweasel card? > (It is NOT a floppy disk controller in terms of BIOS level interaction.) > Or > The "standard linux floppy disk driver" will do stuff that is impossible > with the PC hardware, without needing the Catweasel? > > I would love to know how EITHER of those would work. > > It WOULD be possible to write a floppy disk driver for Linux that could > make use of the Catweasel. But it has, apparently NOT been done, and > therefore suggestions of USING that are inappropriate. > > > Or ... one could write an amiga filesystem for linux. I actually > > wonder why this hasn't been done. > > For use with linux on an Amiga? > > Or are you trying to say that writing an amiga filesystem for Linux, would > permit a PC running Linux to read and write Amiga disksettes without > special hardware? > Could you also write one for NorthStar-DOS? (hard-sectored) > How about one for Apple-DOS? (GCR) > How about one that reads 8" diskettes in a 5.25" drive? (Maybe trimming > the edges, and not being able to read some outer tracks :-) > > > > Has anybody, anywhere, EVER gotten a catweasel to work as a > > > controller to > > > do file system level operations? > > After this discussion, I'm tempted to get one and try. Too bad I can't afford it just now. > > Please let us know when you do. From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 3 16:49:49 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Any AMIGA users? References: <20020103175235.57020.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C34E00D.D2389535@verizon.net> Ethan, > I produce the GG2 Bus+ > bridgecard which has _no_ CPU, but makes the ISA bus available directly > in 68000-address space (shameless plug off...) How much are these? Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Gary Hildebrand wrote: > > "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > > > > > > OK what was the AMIGA that ran both AMIGA and PC software... > > > > > ... (286 + 68000 ) cpu cards on a PC style box. Did that have a > > > > > special software to write PC disks? > > The hardware solution you are probably referring to is an A2000 and > Commodore Bridge card. The first models were the A2088 with an 8088, > the later model, the A2286, had the '286. Third-parties produced > cards that were faster. They were called bridge cards because they > bridged the Zorro bus (68000-side) to the ISA bus that was present > in every A2000 (and A3000...) but inert. I produce the GG2 Bus+ > bridgecard which has _no_ CPU, but makes the ISA bus available directly > in 68000-address space (shameless plug off...) > > As delivered, the A2088 (and A2286) came with an internal 5.25" floppy. > You would mount the floppy in the one-and-only 5.25" hole in the A2000 > and cable it to the bridge card - that's your A: drive. The provided > software allowed you to display the contents of the display memory > on the bridge card in a window (there was a well-documented interface > between the A2088 and the Zorro bus). You had several ISA slots available, > so you could put in a hard disk controller, a network card, whatever > you wanted. I think you could override the internal emulated display > and put in an ISA video card, but if it was possible, it was not a > common arrangement, partially because you were still limited to using > the A2000's keyboard through the bridge card software, over the Zorro > interface (no external keyboard connector). > > There was also a device driver you could buy (later licensed with the > OS) to read/write PC floppies - CrossDOS. I've used it for 720K and > 1.44Mb floppies (with a C= 1/2-speed HD drive). They also produced > CrossMac for reading/writing Mac floppies (HD only, not 400K/800K). > Essentially, it was a filesystem handler and a couple of mount scripts. > The Amiga is friendly when it comes to adding new devices/filesystems. > You get OFS in ROM always, FFS in ROM sometimes and other filesystems > as you desire to add them; completely unlike DOS/Windows. > > > > > > I saw one once - but it was sure slow! > > Yes. For as expensive as they were, they were never at the top end of > the PC performance curve. > > > > On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > > There was a software only PC emulation that ran on the 1000. It was > > > VERY slow, but it PASSED the "acid test of PC compatability" (PCW > > > 1?/84 "How the clones stack up") > > > > > > For a while, they gave it free with the purchase of the external > > > 5.25" drive. > > > > That was the transformer software, and it was only semi-compatible with > > the PC > > I never used it, but I don't recall hearing good things. Later, a > third-party company (the makers of "CrossDOS") came out with Cross-PC, > a reasonable software approximation of a real PC... some of the versions > even supported real ISA cards over the GG2 Bus+. Kinda neat, really... > a fake PC with real hardware - like hanging a Unibus off your PC and > running E-11. > > -ethan > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > http://greetings.yahoo.com From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Jan 4 09:48:23 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Any AMIGA users? Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E085@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Maslin [mailto:donm@cts.com] > I am unaware of such a thing as a hard sectored drive. It is a > controller function. So the sector holes are in exactly the same place as the index hole? > Change the controller card - and the operating system to > support it. It > has been done. I imagined it may have... especially with what I've seen done to a Northstar. :) > > Actually you might be able to get by with it in a high density > > drive, given some way of attaching the disk to the "spindle" of the > > drive, and provided that you didn't really want to keep the disk > > anyway (or possibly the drive!), and if you were willing to write > > mind-numbingly useless special-purpose software. Otherwise, I hear > > that CompatiCard will drive an 8" floppy ;) > As will a conventional AT FDC. Trouble is, most of them won't > read/write single-density (FM). However, some of the XT class clone > controllers with an onboard BIOS and selectable BIOS address > will drive > an 8" drive and do both FM and MFM. I think it was Fred in a previous post who said that CompatiCard would indeed do FM, but it's early and I'm too lazy to check right now. :) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jan 4 12:53:42 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Any AMIGA users? In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E085@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > I am unaware of such a thing as a hard sectored drive. It is a > > controller function. > So the sector holes are in exactly the same place as the index hole? Yes. But there are some rare exceptions, at least in some of the more bizarre 8" ones. "Normal" hard sectored uses the same detector fro both sector holes and index. > > > that CompatiCard will drive an 8" floppy ;) > > As will a conventional AT FDC. Trouble is, most of them won't > > read/write single-density (FM). However, some of the XT class clone > > controllers with an onboard BIOS and selectable BIOS address > > will drive > > an 8" drive and do both FM and MFM. > I think it was Fred in a previous post who said that CompatiCard would > indeed do FM, but it's early and I'm too lazy to check right now. :) Yes The original IBM FDC card, with the 765 could NOT do FM/SD; it was hard-wired for MFM/DD. It was not very hard to modify the board to fix that. In fact, Flagstaff Engineering used to modify IBM FDC cards for 8" operation. I've got a boxful around here somewhere, as well as extensive blathering by Doctor Marty about his reverse-engineering of their mods. Several makers of FDC cards put in the circuitry to get the full use of the 765. Micro Solutions (Compaticard) was one of the best of those. Unfortunately, they've abandoned their disk controller and disk format conversion software lines, and now just make external drives of various types. Several of the newer variants of the 765, such as the 37C65, handle the switch betwen FM and MFM entirely in software. Those will do FM/SD. Almost any controller card that uses one of those chips can do FM/SD. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 NOTE: My ISP is having difficulties. If you have problems reaching me at this e-mail address, you can leave a message at: cisin@info.sims.berkeley.edu fcisin@merritt.edu From donm at cts.com Fri Jan 4 15:38:29 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Any AMIGA users? In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E085@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Don Maslin [mailto:donm@cts.com] > > > I am unaware of such a thing as a hard sectored drive. It is a > > controller function. > > So the sector holes are in exactly the same place as the index hole? If you mean the index/sector-hole detector on the drive, the answer is yes. A chap that I just sent some N* disks to says that his Horizon contains Tandon TM100-2A drives which are just what were used in the IBM PC/XT series, although rebadged. They read his hard-sector disks quite nicely. > > Change the controller card - and the operating system to > > support it. It > > has been done. > > I imagined it may have... especially with what I've seen done to a Northstar. :) > > > > Actually you might be able to get by with it in a high density > > > drive, given some way of attaching the disk to the "spindle" of the > > > drive, and provided that you didn't really want to keep the disk > > > anyway (or possibly the drive!), and if you were willing to write > > > mind-numbingly useless special-purpose software. Otherwise, I hear > > > that CompatiCard will drive an 8" floppy ;) > > > As will a conventional AT FDC. Trouble is, most of them won't > > read/write single-density (FM). However, some of the XT class clone > > controllers with an onboard BIOS and selectable BIOS address > > will drive > > an 8" drive and do both FM and MFM. > > I think it was Fred in a previous post who said that CompatiCard would > indeed do FM, but it's early and I'm too lazy to check right now. :) I believe it was, and they will. - don > Regards, > > Chris > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Jan 3 13:29:15 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: Crescent wrenches Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146746D@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> I use(d) that one. I believe it's short for 'diagonal cutters'. --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 ! -----Original Message----- ! From: John Allain [mailto:allain@panix.com] ! ! ! Old Boss of mine called the larger triangular headed ! snippers (sim.: Xelite wire cutter) "Dykes". Any word ! on this... word. Is this a correct term? ! ! John A. ! From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jan 3 13:30:33 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Dilog DQ614 diagnostics program first tests In-Reply-To: Sergio Pedraja Cabo "Dilog DQ614 diagnostics program first tests" (Jan 3, 11:51) References: <2f53212f5d2a.2f5d2a2f5321@ono.com> Message-ID: <10201031930.ZM15926@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 3, 11:51, Sergio Pedraja Cabo wrote: > I did the first tests with the DQ614P.SAV program and my Dilog DQ614 > MFM controller board. This board simulates up to four RL01/02 units > in one PDP-11 using one or two MFM hard disks. I am using: > [...] > * One Dilog DQ614 Revision S > * One Quantum MFM Hard Disk Q540 (Aka. RD52-A) > * RT-11 v.4 > * I assume the vector addresses of the unit is 174400 and 160. That should be correct, unless you have a non-standard PAL at U55 on the DQ614. > The software used is the DQ614P.SAV diagnostics program Revision 0, > and one DL.SYS driver that came with the DQ614P program. Why? Why don't you use the DL driver that came with the OS? The device drivers are OS-version-specific, and the driver I put up beside the formatter is for RT-11 5.04, which is different to RT-11 4.0. > Well, the program starts ok. There is no apparently problem with the > OS environment. It works with its DL.SYS module, with the own DL.SYS > module of the RT11 V.4, and without it too. > > The program startup and asks me if I'm working with a C.R.T (I assume > it speaks about a terminal). Yes, as Ethan said that just means a VDU as opposed to a printing terminal -- it affects how it treats the delete key, and in this case also affects whether it clears the screen; if you answer "N" to the CRT question, it won't print current cylinder addresses becasue the printout would consume a lot of paper. > Later the program asks me about the > access vector for the controller. By default it uses 174400 and 160 > values. I assume them too. The next step is to select one MFM hard disk. > My disk is the 73, one Quantum Q540. If the drive you want to use is not in the list, instead of typing a number from the list, type "E". You'll then be prompted to enter number of heads, number of cylinders, RWCC (which the manual says isn't used), cylinder at whivch to start precompensation (also not used), and to pick a step rate from a list. > Inmediately, the program permits > me to select how much DL disks I want to emulate. I can emulate two > RL02 and two RL01. The program asks me: "Are you sure ?". My answer is > yes. The process begins... and some seconds later, the program send me > a message telling: "UNEXPECTED RESPONSE IN ADDRESS 00000160 (sometimes > is the address 00000000). I've tried to change the cable selection, > the address selection, etc... In this case, the message tells me that > the unit can't be accessed. Sounds like you have the correct address and vector but something is generating spurious interrupts. Is there another RL controller in the system? Or something with a misconfigured vector? > Like a final indication, the Q540 hard disk have 5 jumpers named > DS1, DS2, DS3, DS4 and ^. Actually is selected the DS1. That should be right. Make sure you have the 20-pin cable on J2, not J3. Does the drive have a terminator? > What is wrong ? I suspect that the program must be the same revision > than the board (Revision "O" the program, revision "S" the board). I don't think so. The program came with a Rev.K board. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jan 3 15:12:55 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Dilog DQ614 diagnostics program first tests In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Re: Dilog DQ614 diagnostics program first tests" (Jan 3, 8:53) References: <20020103165318.13450.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10201032112.ZM15957@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 3, 8:53, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Personally, I plan to pick something that is _not_ a drop-in replacement > for a DEC drive - I can format all sorts of stuff on an RQDX3, but it's > nice to stick to the right models when you can to make drive geometry > tables in the OS and/or drivers match. Sensible idea. And RQDX1/RQDX2 need the "right" drives; they do bizarre tests to see what they have connected (like stepping to illegal tracks) and won't work unless the drive matches something hardcoded into the RQDX "microcode". > Have you formatted this drive on another controller and scanned for > bad blocks? I know the RQDX3 has a "standard" way of handling them > (well... standard for the RQDX line), so I'm not sure there's a > "factory BBL" to reference Not on MFM/ST412-type drives, no. > or if there is, that the DQ614 does reference > it, but I would see if the drive passes a low-level format on something > else, perhaps a WD1003 in an old 486 that still has the format option > in the BIOS menu. You could also try it on a WX-1 with its BIOS > formatter (accessed through debug, typically). The DQ614P program should include several controller and drive exercises and tests, and a bad block (actually a bad track) utility. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From mythtech at Mac.com Thu Jan 3 13:32:39 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment Message-ID: >Ahh -- so what _do_ you call a guy who hangs around with a bunch of >musicians? A drummer of course (as an ex-percusionist, I heard this joke almost daily) :-) -chris From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jan 3 14:10:04 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: from Chris at "Jan 3, 2 02:32:39 pm" Message-ID: <200201032010.MAA09212@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >Ahh -- so what _do_ you call a guy who hangs around with a bunch of > >musicians? > > A drummer of course (as an ex-percusionist, I heard this joke almost > daily) :-) Drummers seem to collect drummer jokes -- a drummer friend of mine down here knows them all. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I may have invented CtrlAltDel, but Microsoft made it popular. -- D. Bradley From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Jan 3 14:16:57 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146746F@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com] ! ! ! On January 4, ysgdhio wrote: ! > > Insert drummer joke here. ! > ! > Q: How do you know when there's a drummer at your door? ! > A: The knocking keeps getting faster. ! ! AHEM. B-| ! ! -Dave, drummer ! ! -- ! Dave McGuire "Hey, who's that behind the band?" "Him? Yeah, he's thier drummer." "Oh. I thought they only let musicians in here..." --- David A Woyciesjes *** 5 string bass player *** --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jan 3 14:59:24 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225C89@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > sometimes i forget that computer folks r technical people. > > i come from the arts where the only thing that is needed is > > understanding. > > i am on stage sometimes and all the musicians do is > > just nod or look at each other and everyone understands them. > > Yes, but they try to use established conventions for note pitches, > time signatures, keys, chord structures and all the other syntax of > musical language...you'd have to in my band anyway ;-) So, Stan, give us a nice twelve-BARR ClassicCmp Blues standard... ;) -dq From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Jan 3 23:51:05 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225C89@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3C34EE69.28429.D07BF6@localhost> How about Classic comp don't need to stomp they just blow their blues away digitalize or initialize nothing new to say They verbalize and genralize til the suits say its ok Then substitute another code As if it were another ode and then go on their way Doo-be do-bee do wop doo-bee Doo-be do be K-pro way Lawrence > > > sometimes i forget that computer folks r technical people. > > > i come from the arts where the only thing that is needed is > > > understanding. > > > i am on stage sometimes and all the musicians do is > > > just nod or look at each other and everyone understands them. > > > > Yes, but they try to use established conventions for note pitches, > > time signatures, keys, chord structures and all the other syntax of > > musical language...you'd have to in my band anyway ;-) > > So, Stan, give us a nice twelve-BARR ClassicCmp Blues standard... > > ;) > > -dq Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From stanb at dial.pipex.com Fri Jan 4 03:10:27 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 03 Jan 2002 15:59:24 EST." <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225C89@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <200201040910.JAA28278@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Douglas Quebbeman said: >> ...you'd have to in my band anyway ;-) > > So, Stan, give us a nice twelve-BARR ClassicCmp Blues standard... I was toying with the idea of a "WINblues" aka "Blue(s) Screen of Death" ;-) Sump'n like: "Booted up this morning, got the blues screen of death, I'll curse this damned machine until my last dyin' breath." etc...etc... ;-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jan 3 15:00:53 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225C8A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > >Ahh -- so what _do_ you call a guy who hangs around with a bunch of > >musicians? > > A drummer of course (as an ex-percusionist, I heard this joke almost > daily) :-) What a relief- I've always heard that "singer" was the punch line... -dq p.s. Would Everyone Here Kindly Step to the Rear And let a TENOR lead the way... From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 3 17:50:02 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225C8A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > p.s. Would Everyone Here Kindly Step to the Rear > And let a TENOR lead the way... Well, I always loved to sing when we were busy, and the guys on my crew always told me _I_ should sing tenor.... Tenor twelve miles down the road, they meant. Doc From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Jan 3 23:51:05 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225C8A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3C34EE69.7750.D07C2D@localhost> I immediately thoght of groupie. Aahh those groupies. sighhh. . . > > >Ahh -- so what _do_ you call a guy who hangs around with a bunch of > > >musicians? > > > > A drummer of course (as an ex-percusionist, I heard this joke almost > > daily) :-) > > What a relief- I've always heard that "singer" was the punch line... > > -dq > > p.s. Would Everyone Here Kindly Step to the Rear > And let a TENOR lead the way... > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 3 18:56:51 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103084026.02f75f60@127.0.0.1> from "Matthew Sell" at Jan 3, 2 08:48:05 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1201 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020104/df504e1f/attachment.ksh From wpointon at earthlink.net Fri Jan 4 05:55:59 2002 From: wpointon at earthlink.net (bill pointon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <04C42538-010A-11D6-B22B-003065ED7126@earthlink.net> this is not a reply to any particular message but to the thread as a whole -- you sound like a bunch of old-fashioned high school english teachers -- i mean come on people - form follows function - or at least it has for the last 30 years since marshal mcluhan - if you cant understand someones post without consulting a thesaurus grammarian and lexicon of the english language is it worth a diatribe -- i tend to ignore capitalization and punctuation also - save for the generic pause -- and if you cant decipher my messages is it perhaps because of a failure in the reader rather than the writer ? i really dont care ---- and no offense meant where not taken voluntarily -- billp ps -- i am not a warez dood - dont own a cell phone - and have never instant messaged anyone On Thursday, January 3, 2002, at 07:56 PM, Tony Duell wrote: >> >> >> >> It's not that people here are snooty and require proper English to >> post to >> the list, it's just that run-on sentences with improper grammar and no >> punctuation and capitalization is a real pain in the ass to read. > > Well, personally I don't normally comment on spelling/ grammar/ > punctuation. Particularly since English is not the first language of > some > people on this list. > > I only comment when there's likely to be technical confusion (as with > the > 'Centronics' connectors). > >> >> It also makes the reader assume (sometimes wrongly...) that the person >> posting the message is a complete idiot, and advice, suggestions, and >> answers will not be understood when given. This is a technical group, >> and > > Most of the regulars here will hopefully confirm that I am fairly 'free' > with techanical information. I don't mind digging out databooks or > schematics, etc. I don't mind doing a few back-of-the-envelope > calculations. > > But if I would have to spend significant time deciphering your message > to > work out just what you were asking for, well, I am not likely to do > that. > Instead I'll just ignore it. > >> God knows my English isn't perfect...... : ) >> > > Nor is mine.... > > -tony > From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 4 13:08:20 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: <04C42538-010A-11D6-B22B-003065ED7126@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, bill pointon wrote: > this is not a reply to any particular message but to the thread as a ^ T > whole -- you sound like a bunch of old-fashioned high school english ^^^ ^ ^ . Y E > teachers -- i mean come on people - form follows function - or at least ^^^ ^ ^^ ^^ . I : , > it has for the last 30 years since marshal mcluhan - if you cant ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ M M L . I ' > understand someones post without consulting a thesaurus grammarian and ^ ^^^^^^^^^^ ' > lexicon of the english language is it worth a diatribe -- i tend to ^ ^ ^^^ ^ E , ? I > ignore capitalization and punctuation also - save for the generic ^^ , > pause -- and if you cant decipher my messages is it perhaps because of a ^^^ ^^^ ^ ^ . I ' > failure in the reader rather than the writer ? i really dont care ---- ^ ^ ^ ^^^^^ I ' , > and no offense meant where not taken voluntarily -- billp ^^^ . > ps -- i am not a warez dood - dont own a cell phone - and have never ^^ ^^ ^ ^^ ^ ^^ P.S. I , ' , > instant messaged anyone ^ ^ - . You get an 'F'. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Thu Jan 3 23:28:47 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment Message-ID: <20020104053138.EMS14456.imf10bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Golemancd@aol.com > i agree u shouldnt try and read it > ps notice no capitals and not punctuation If thumbing your nose at this group makes you feel better it might be to your advantage to find out why. Personally, I'm curious as to why anyone would intentionally make their postings harder to understand than they have to be. > doesnt matter anyway If our understanding your meaning doesn't matter, why post? > sometimes i forget that computer folks r technical people. > i come from the arts where the only thing that is needed is > understanding. Hmm, I always thought most "art" forms required a modicum of technical ability. > i am on stage sometimes and all the musicians do is > just nod or look at each other and everyone understands them. What you are referring to is called a "cue." A cue is not a spontaneous, mystical form of communication. It is something which is worked out in advance, during rehearsal, and it is expected by the recipient. An example would be a look from a guitarist to a keyboardist which carries the meaning, "I'm done with my variable-length solo, so you may now begin your solo." This may or may not be actually spoken of in rehearsal, but it is still an agreed-upon, precise form of communication which is worked out in advance of the actual performance. As for "understanding," precision in communication fosters better understanding. This has been the entire point of the "Centronics/Crescent wrench" thread. > will try and and be more precise. i guess here that is needed. I think most people here would be happy if you just were a little less sloppy in your presentation, so that we can get a better idea of what you're trying to say. And if we don't like what you're saying we can always call you an ASS and be done with it ;>) Glen 0/0 From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Jan 3 23:51:05 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E06D@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <3C34EE69.9131.D07C5B@localhost> At the risk of another OT thread one has to memorize many things, and know the formula to apply them. Surely the math tables, alphabet, and common grammar is not too much to ask of an educational system that has ceased to educate. I remember studies at the London School of Economics that showed 3rd year students became less able to assimmilate concepts than Ist year students. Meaning they became Dumber as education proceeded. Education seems to be simply how well you can accede to the requirements of corporations. Lawrence Lawrence > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lawrence Walker [mailto:lgwalker@mts.net] > > > And actually force people to learn how to spell without the > > use of a spell- > > checker. I remember how aghast I was when I learned my sons school > > Well, in defense of poor spelling, there are more important things -- such as > content -- especially on a friendly list such as this. After all, tripe is > tripe, no matter how correct the spelling. :) > > > allowed the use of calculators in math exams. Right On, Fred. > > ... and in defense of calculators, it's certainly more important for one to > learn the theoretical core of mathematics so that it can be applied to Real Life > than to waste time calculating things which are practically useless. The actual > calculation is generally a mundane, but necessary step. Provided that you know > how it's supposed to work, you can always arrive at the correct answer given > some amount of time, with or without a calculator. Please don't take this as a > defense of the public school system, which doesn't truthfully teach anything. > > > I was going to > > reply to this would-be hacker's input but brushed it off as > > more juvenal crap. > > I was tempted to respond too, but -- and this is the whole problem with the > message -- there was nothing to which one could respond. He may as well have > said "test message -- please ignore." > > Regards, > > Chris > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From Golemancd at aol.com Fri Jan 4 06:49:57 2002 From: Golemancd at aol.com (Golemancd@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment Message-ID: does anyone have anything to say about computers? From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jan 3 15:18:31 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment References: Message-ID: <3C34CAA7.59D15623@jetnet.ab.ca> Golemancd@aol.com wrote: > > does anyone have anything to say about computers? 0110001100 001110100 00100011101110011 001111000011 Oh! I thought you said 'say to computers' How big are the HD's? You might consider archiving stuff or mirroring stuff that is important to classic computing on the web. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Jan 4 08:32:46 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 Golemancd@aol.com wrote: > does anyone have anything to say about computers? > Previously, I asked you several questions about your collection, what arts backround are you from, do you use your computers in that art, etc... still waiting for any possible answers... I collect DEC PDP stuff, and also vintage electronic musical intruments. Cheers and Happy New Year! John From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Jan 4 08:35:40 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 Golemancd@aol.com wrote: > does anyone have anything to say about computers? > Ooops, your reply popped up after I sent the last post, sorry and please ignore.. thanks Cheers, NuYeers, etc... John From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 4 10:42:39 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment References: Message-ID: <3C35DB7F.83FE4EA9@verizon.net> > i am also working out, as i was talking about > in the original thread that got off track, a distributed > os to control robots and also a custom computer > to do the same. Chuck McManis has some robotics stuff on his web site, but right now, I don't have the link. > i collect any computer i can get my hands on. What type of computers do you have in your collection? Golemancd@aol.com wrote: > > does anyone have anything to say about computers? From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jan 4 07:45:12 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225C8E@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > ps -- i am not a warez dood - dont own a cell phone - and have never > instant messaged anyone I confess to having used TALK/NTALK/YTALK under Solaris once or twice... and in the old days, using SEND TTY under TOPS-10 seemed really cool... now I see it a bit differently. -old fogey From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Jan 4 10:32:56 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E089@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Golemancd@aol.com [mailto:Golemancd@aol.com] > does anyone have anything to say about computers? Yes. They're generally digital these days, are they not? Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 4 12:54:23 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment References: Message-ID: <3C35FA5F.E09715C0@verizon.net> Do you intentionally try to be such an asshole, or does it just come naturally to you? Gene Buckle wrote: > > You know, I was going to put in this really nice diatribe about how > simpering twits like you really annoy people. It then dawned on me that > it would be about as useful as holding a physics class for a > paramecium(sp) and promptly gave up on the whole idea. > > May Darwin call you home soon. > > g. > > > > > > He's a lazy communicator and is getting slapped around for it. > > > > His "style" was definately different than the "norm" for > > this list. And he might have received better responses > > if he had followed the old adage of "When in Rome, do as the > > Romans do". But here in the US we are supposed to have > > freedom of speech, such that I may not agree with what you > > say, nor may I even agree with how you say it, but I might > > defend to the death your right to do so? > > > > > How about: "Stupid people suck."? > > > > This is not constructive. > > > > > > > > Gene Buckle wrote: > > > > > > > You all are terrible. It seems like he really made > > > > everyone's day by providing something new to bitch > > > > about. Personally, I understood what he had written > > > > with no undue level of extra effort required. > > > > > > > That just means you can parse Idiot better than we can. Personally, it > > > gives me a headache. > > > > > > > I'm not a religious person, but have always remembered > > > > ( though not word for word ) a couple of quotes. > > > > > > > > Let he who is without sin cast the first stone? > > > > > > > > Judge not, lest ye be judged ( or something like that )? > > > > > > > How about: "Stupid people suck."? > > > > > > > Everyone in this world may not have had the level of > > > > opportunity ( in education, employment, etc. ) that > > > > many of you have had. Before coming down on him so hard, > > > > I would at least be willing to consider "his story"? > > > > > > > Level of "opportunity" my butt. He got whatever opportunity he made for > > > himself. Anything else is entitlement-minded whining. He's a lazy > > > communicator and is getting slapped around for it. Deal. > > > > > > g. > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 13:07:33 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment References: <3C35FA5F.E09715C0@verizon.net> Message-ID: <00a901c19553$109f8b00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> We all have a little of that in us, but you'd be well advised to avoid calling it forth, else you'll find out just what the extent of it is. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Koller" To: ; "Gene Buckle" Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 11:54 AM Subject: Re: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment > > > Do you intentionally try to be such an asshole, or > does it just come naturally to you? > > > > Gene Buckle wrote: > > > > You know, I was going to put in this really nice diatribe about how > > simpering twits like you really annoy people. It then dawned on me that > > it would be about as useful as holding a physics class for a > > paramecium(sp) and promptly gave up on the whole idea. > > > > May Darwin call you home soon. > > > > g. > > > > > > > > > He's a lazy communicator and is getting slapped around for it. > > > > > > His "style" was definately different than the "norm" for > > > this list. And he might have received better responses > > > if he had followed the old adage of "When in Rome, do as the > > > Romans do". But here in the US we are supposed to have > > > freedom of speech, such that I may not agree with what you > > > say, nor may I even agree with how you say it, but I might > > > defend to the death your right to do so? > > > > > > > How about: "Stupid people suck."? > > > > > > This is not constructive. > > > > > > > > > > > > Gene Buckle wrote: > > > > > > > > > You all are terrible. It seems like he really made > > > > > everyone's day by providing something new to bitch > > > > > about. Personally, I understood what he had written > > > > > with no undue level of extra effort required. > > > > > > > > > That just means you can parse Idiot better than we can. Personally, it > > > > gives me a headache. > > > > > > > > > I'm not a religious person, but have always remembered > > > > > ( though not word for word ) a couple of quotes. > > > > > > > > > > Let he who is without sin cast the first stone? > > > > > > > > > > Judge not, lest ye be judged ( or something like that )? > > > > > > > > > How about: "Stupid people suck."? > > > > > > > > > Everyone in this world may not have had the level of > > > > > opportunity ( in education, employment, etc. ) that > > > > > many of you have had. Before coming down on him so hard, > > > > > I would at least be willing to consider "his story"? > > > > > > > > > Level of "opportunity" my butt. He got whatever opportunity he made for > > > > himself. Anything else is entitlement-minded whining. He's a lazy > > > > communicator and is getting slapped around for it. Deal. > > > > > > > > g. > > > > > > > > From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 4 12:55:40 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: <3C3584AA.53081124@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote: > Let he who is without sin cast the first stone? I did. I'm perfect. > Judge not, lest ye be judged ( or something like that )? Bring it on. :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 4 13:16:32 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: <3C35DA47.6B39B8F5@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote: > His "style" was definately different than the "norm" for this list. > And he might have received better responses if he had followed the old > adage of "When in Rome, do as the Romans do". But here in the US we > are supposed to have freedom of speech, such that I may not agree with > what you say, nor may I even agree with how you say it, but I might > defend to the death your right to do so? Freedom of speech does not guarantee a right to a response. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jan 4 13:24:50 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sellam said that you can't see a nod in e-mail. But reading some of this thread, I CAN see a lot of eyes rolling in exasperated annoyance. From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 14:03:08 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment References: Message-ID: <00e201c1955a$d4487c40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Freedom of speech doesn't imply freedom to abuse the language either. It's not that he's got no right to do it, but he's certainly got no right to expect people of all walks to appreciate and, ultimately, read and digest it. "When in Rome, do as the Romans..." applies to the language. He should read what people express on this list and how they go about it. Then he should do his level best to fit into that model. Everybody makes a mistake from time to time, but flagrant, or reckless, or even intentional, abuses of the language don't help the flow of information, and that's what the list is about. First of all, he's got to fit in. Then he can stand out, based on what he has to contribute that's germane to the discussions on the list. He doesn't have to be better than anyone else, but if he wants to be respected, he simply has to show that he's doing his level best to be a constructive contributor. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 12:16 PM Subject: Re: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote: > > > His "style" was definately different than the "norm" for this list. > > And he might have received better responses if he had followed the old > > adage of "When in Rome, do as the Romans do". But here in the US we > > are supposed to have freedom of speech, such that I may not agree with > > what you say, nor may I even agree with how you say it, but I might > > defend to the death your right to do so? > > Freedom of speech does not guarantee a right to a response. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From zaft at azstarnet.com Fri Jan 4 14:21:59 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: <000d01c19544$1a430880$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <3C35DA47.6B39B8F5@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020104132105.0259c5d8@mail.azstarnet.com> (/petpeevemode ON) At 10:20 AM 1/4/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Apparently, you and he use the same spell-checker. SPELLING checker. A spell-checker is for witches. (/petpeevemode OFF) GZ From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jan 3 18:18:59 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment References: <3C35DA47.6B39B8F5@verizon.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20020104132105.0259c5d8@mail.azstarnet.com> Message-ID: <3C34F4F3.3C082D75@jetnet.ab.ca> Gordon Zaft wrote: > > (/petpeevemode ON) > > At 10:20 AM 1/4/2002 -0700, you wrote: > >Apparently, you and he use the same spell-checker. > > SPELLING checker. A spell-checker is for witches. > > (/petpeevemode OFF) > > GZ No a SPELL-CHECKER! It takes BLACK MAGIC to get my computer to run certain DEMON - possessed software. :) Some times I wish I had a grammar checker as I often have to rush off a reply to something. While it is important have a good writing style it is more important to have something useful to say. Lets drop English, Middle English or even OLD English for now and get back to classic computers. A friend has got a 'free' computer with win 3.1 but no printer or software disks. Having found a 'free' printer how would be the best way to install printer drivers for the old computer? -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 16:00:58 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment References: <3C35DA47.6B39B8F5@verizon.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20020104132105.0259c5d8@mail.azstarnet.com> Message-ID: <005801c1956b$4ab37a00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> perhaps they're using both ... or neither ... The doc files that come with one or another of the WIndows app's calls it a spell-check. Maybe that's really telling us something! Of course, it might be that one needs to check to see whether or not the spell is running ... it is, after all, Windows. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon Zaft" To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 1:21 PM Subject: Re: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment > > (/petpeevemode ON) > > At 10:20 AM 1/4/2002 -0700, you wrote: > >Apparently, you and he use the same spell-checker. > > SPELLING checker. A spell-checker is for witches. > > (/petpeevemode OFF) > > GZ > > From jss at subatomix.com Fri Jan 4 15:15:36 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: <3C35DA47.6B39B8F5@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20020104144312.V19144-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote: > But here in the US we are supposed to have freedom of speech, He spoke. Do we not speak? No freedom of speech has been compromised here. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From jss at subatomix.com Fri Jan 4 13:23:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Web servers on classic hardware (was: Re: OS/2 1.3 EE) In-Reply-To: <20020102230657.7808.qmail@picarefy.picarefy.com> Message-ID: <20020104130733.E19144-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> On 2 Jan 2002 jwbirdsa@picarefy.com wrote: > Maybe I can dig up a web server for it. :) That reminds me of a question. Say I want to set up a webserver on my . If it runs NetBSD, then great, I can run recent versions of all the necessary software with all of the latest security fixes. However, if I want/have to run , there's a good chance that old vulnerabilities will be available on the system. How much would I have to worry about this? Here are some of my thoughts so far: * Most exploitation activities may be directed at newer software, leaving exploits of the forgotten. * Isolate the system from everything else, so if it was compromised, there would be no need to care. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Fri Jan 4 13:38:46 2002 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Web servers on classic hardware (was: Re: OS/2 1.3 EE) In-Reply-To: <20020104130733.E19144-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> Message-ID: And make sure you have a reasonable backup (OS regeneration included) before exposing it to the wild web.... George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > On 2 Jan 2002 jwbirdsa@picarefy.com wrote: > > > Maybe I can dig up a web server for it. :) > > That reminds me of a question. Say I want to set up a webserver on my > . If it runs NetBSD, then great, I can run recent > versions of all the necessary software with all of the latest security > fixes. However, if I want/have to run , > there's a good chance that old vulnerabilities will be available on the > system. How much would I have to worry about this? > > Here are some of my thoughts so far: > > * Most exploitation activities may be directed at newer software, leaving > exploits of the forgotten. > > * Isolate the system from everything else, so if it was compromised, there > would be no need to care. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@subatomix.com > > From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Jan 4 13:48:22 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Web servers on classic hardware (was: Re: OS/2 1.3 EE) In-Reply-To: <20020104130733.E19144-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at Jan 4, 02 01:23:00 pm Message-ID: <200201041948.OAA11935@wordstock.com> jeff, I would think that if the system was not Intel and/or Windows based, you wouldn't have to worry about most security exploits. For a free TCP/IP implementaion for 8 and 16 bit CPUs, check out http://www.dunkels.com/adam/uip/ For a C64 :) web server, goto http://c64.cc65.org/ Cheers, Bryan > > That reminds me of a question. Say I want to set up a webserver on my > . If it runs NetBSD, then great, I can run recent > versions of all the necessary software with all of the latest security > fixes. However, if I want/have to run , > there's a good chance that old vulnerabilities will be available on the > system. How much would I have to worry about this? > > Here are some of my thoughts so far: > > * Most exploitation activities may be directed at newer software, leaving > exploits of the forgotten. > > * Isolate the system from everything else, so if it was compromised, there > would be no need to care. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@subatomix.com > > From kentborg at borg.org Fri Jan 4 13:58:17 2002 From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:06 2005 Subject: Web servers on classic hardware (was: Re: OS/2 1.3 EE) In-Reply-To: <20020104130733.E19144-100000@lepton.subatomix.com>; from jss@subatomix.com on Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 01:23:00PM -0600 References: <20020102230657.7808.qmail@picarefy.picarefy.com> <20020104130733.E19144-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20020104145817.G4395@borg.org> On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 01:23:00PM -0600, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > * Isolate the system from everything else, so if it was compromised, there > would be no need to care. First, be sure to not reuse any passwords between the don't-care machine and any others. It could be compromised, your password sniffed, and reapplied on a machine that you do care about. Second, be willing to face wrath (if not someday liabilities) if someone uses your don't-care machine as platform from which to attack or spam others. I think you want to do a reasonably good job of protecting this machine. -kb From bills at adrenaline.com Thu Jan 3 14:59:04 2002 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: Employment wanted... Message-ID: Sorry to spam the list, but the times demand... I'm a software engineer with 20 years professional experience. BS in computer science from the University of Maryland, College Park. Seeking embedded development work in the Washington, DC metro area. I know most 8-bit micros, several PICs, x86 and PPC-860/PPC-821. I think I have a reasonable command of real-time programming issues. Contact me off-list if you can help. Again, sorry... this came out of the blue. I figured my current employer would last until March. Thanks, Bill Sudbrink wh.sudbrink@verizon.net From darek-ss at wp.pl Thu Jan 3 16:09:30 2002 From: darek-ss at wp.pl (Darek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: SUN monitor cables Message-ID: <3c34d69a5bc3d@wp.pl> > Someone the other day made reference to old-style and late- >model SUN 13w3 >monitor cables. What's the difference between the two? Hi, I think there that the difference is in SYNC signals. The old one had only composite SYNC and the new probbaly could provide also V and H SYNC Look to: http://www.hut.fi/Misc/Electronics/faq/vga2rgb/interfacing.html#v ga_13w3 Darek ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Tylko Nowy Kontakt umo?liwia rozmowy przez inne komunikatory internetowe! Poznaj 100 mln nowych znajomych! Instalujesz? Kliknij! < http://kontakt.wp.pl > From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Jan 3 16:23:10 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: Any interest in 5.25 floppy drives or small scsi drives? Message-ID: <189.1664b45.296633ce@aol.com> I've got some orders for some goodies and there's still some things left. Tell me what you want so I can see if I can accomodate you. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From tarsi at binhost.com Thu Jan 3 21:21:46 2002 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: Compaq Deskpro286 - Documents or Help? Message-ID: <02010321214604.07053@simon> Hi all geeks! I have two Compaq 286 machines that I am trying to put back together. Unfortunately, I'm having some issues reattaching the harddrives and floppy drives to the drive controller cards. I seem (stupidly) to have forgotten how they go when I unplugged them. I know, I know, it's dumb, but help a guy out anyway? :) I promise to be good the next time, honest. Anywho, if any of you have documentation that you can email to me, I would appreciate, or if you can explain how to reattach the cables from the harddrives and floppy drives to the card, I would most grateful. Configuration appears below. Personal email: tarsi@binhost.com Thanks, Tarsi --------------- Configuration: Compaq Deskpro286 Model 2550 Harddrive controller: WDC WD1002-WAH J1 is a 33 pin J2 is a 19 pin J3 is a 19 pin Floppy drive/Printer board, has one 33 pin floppy connector Standard(?) 5.25" floppy drive, 33 (34) pin cable. Seagate hard drive, one 19 pin cable, one 33 pin cable. My confusion is mostly whether J2 or J3 should be used with the harddrive, and what the difference is. Also, can I put dual harddrive in there? If so, how? Thanks a mil! -- ---------------------------------------------- Homepage: http://tarsi.binhost.com binHOST.com: http://www.binhost.com Forever Beyond: http://www.foreverbeyond.org ---------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 3 21:40:26 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: Compaq Deskpro286 - Documents or Help? In-Reply-To: <02010321214604.07053@simon> from "Tarsi" at Jan 3, 2 09:21:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1964 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020104/a86b575c/attachment.ksh From auringer at tds.net Fri Jan 4 07:36:37 2002 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: Compaq Deskpro286 - Documents or Help? References: <02010321214604.07053@simon> Message-ID: <3C35AFE5.55B6394A@tds.net> Tarsi wrote: > Anywho, if any of you have documentation that you can email to me, I would > appreciate, or if you can explain how to reattach the cables from the > harddrives and floppy drives to the card, I would most grateful. > Configuration appears below. > Harddrive controller: WDC WD1002-WAH > Tarsi Hey Tarsi, I know Tony gave you a good answer to your question, but I thought you might also like to have the manual for the hard drive controller. Western Digital actually has useful stuff on their Web site. http://www.westerndigital.com/library/legacy/controllerboards/1002wah.pdf Later, Jon Jon Auringer auringer@tds.net From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Thu Jan 3 22:56:03 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printerfind Message-ID: <20020104053131.ELJ14456.imf10bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Douglas Quebbeman > Heh. Mexican speed wrench... Funny, I've always heard it referred to as a *Kentucky* speed wrench ;>) Glen 0/0 From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Thu Jan 3 23:43:24 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: Man alive, I just can't resist Message-ID: <20020104054530.FYOE24380.imf08bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Golemancd@aol.com > This is becoming a pretty silly thread because there can be > understanding > without proper grammer ; if we are being technical here. Every computer I ever met would gag on the above statement ;>) > Sure there is > meaning, > u just dont understand it. Well, I've seen lots of COBOL and BASIC programs which fit this description, but that doesn't mean it's okay. > I get your point. I do use a lot of shorthand and because this is a > hobby > i dont focus very much on my grammer. If u see me post then dont read it. > That is all that i have to say about this matter. > > joee > > P.S i hope the grammer helps you understand this. I have no idea what your involvement with computers is, but I'm certain it doesn't involve programming . . . Glen 0/0 From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 05:06:54 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: Man alive, I just can't resist References: <20020104054530.FYOE24380.imf08bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <002501c1950f$eb6509c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yes, starting with the spelling errors. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glen Goodwin" To: Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 10:43 PM Subject: Man alive, I just can't resist > > From: Golemancd@aol.com > > > This is becoming a pretty silly thread because there can be > > understanding > > without proper grammer ; if we are being technical here. > > Every computer I ever met would gag on the above statement ;>) > > > Sure there is > > meaning, > > u just dont understand it. > > Well, I've seen lots of COBOL and BASIC programs which fit this > description, but that > doesn't mean it's okay. > > > I get your point. I do use a lot of shorthand and because this is > a > > hobby > > i dont focus very much on my grammer. If u see me post then dont read it. > > That is all that i have to say about this matter. > > > > joee > > > > P.S i hope the grammer helps you understand this. > > I have no idea what your involvement with computers is, but I'm certain it > doesn't > involve programming . . . > > Glen > 0/0 > > From Golemancd at aol.com Fri Jan 4 07:23:02 2002 From: Golemancd at aol.com (Golemancd@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: Man alive, I just can't resist Message-ID: <127.9d8d8a6.296706b6@aol.com> well glenn the statement was not meant to be confined to computers. most people prabably including you have a richer life that just working with computers. sure i program. i know when to be precise, and when i dont need to be. i'm sure you do to. i look at the mail and see an ad for something and i know im not interested , so i dont worry about which store is sending this junk to me. [trash can time] when i program i concentrate on being precise. whats so hard to understand about that. being a programmer you must be pretty good concepts. this is a simple one Joe From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Jan 4 10:24:24 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: Man alive, I just can't resist Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E088@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Glen Goodwin" > > > From: Golemancd@aol.com > > > This is becoming a pretty silly thread because there can be > > > understanding > > > without proper grammer ; if we are being technical here. > > Every computer I ever met would gag on the above statement ;>) > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > Yes, starting with the spelling errors. I think a perl interpreter may actually execute it ;) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Jan 4 11:15:44 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: Man alive, I just can't resist Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E08C@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Golemancd@aol.com [mailto:Golemancd@aol.com] > i look at the mail and see an ad for something and i know > im not interested , so i dont worry about which store > is sending this junk to me. [trash can time] Actually, depending on the annoyance factor I do check the name of the store, and adjust my shopping preferences accordingly (favoring other stores, or if it's junk email, not dealing with the company at all). Usually, though, it just gets ignored, you're right. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From Golemancd at aol.com Fri Jan 4 07:02:25 2002 From: Golemancd at aol.com (Golemancd@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: chris smith Message-ID: <57.467c62b.296701e1@aol.com> chris writing an idea about a hobby is not an art form. that is my point. you only need precision when you need it. like standing in a karate stance when there is no one to fight. you get in the stance when needed. same with precision. pick your spots. has no one ever heard of that. pick the battles you fight. you dont have to fight all of them; just the ones that matter. same with percision. if someone says good morning and you dont understand them. you may inquired as to what they said. but after that one inquiry if it is not clear what they said , it really doesnt matter because what they may have been saying wasnt important enough to grill them for an hour. some one said the post didnt warrant a response. he was correct. i was just talking about an idea. thats it. it was not important. joee From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Jan 4 11:02:48 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: chris smith Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E08A@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Golemancd@aol.com [mailto:Golemancd@aol.com] > has no one ever heard of that. > pick the battles you fight. Of course. Is it not from Sun Tsu's "The Art of War?" ... but I'd hardly call typing a war. :) If it is, then it's likely that you'll want to "win" it if you plan to work with computers. > some one said the post didnt warrant a response. > he was correct. i was just talking about an idea. > thats it. it was not important. You must believe what you say is of some import, otherwise, why bother to post anything? People are just complaining that while you seem to care enough about what you're saying to post it, you don't seem to care enough to allow them to understand it. The only word of caution I would give is that this is a very "hands-on" (technical, if you prefer the term) list. If you speak about things without being detailed enough for everyone to comprehend, it may annoy several people. (Myself included, honestly. :) Let me give the example of your post, which said, essentially: "Why do you need a bigger network?" You might have explained why you thought that the subjects current network was big enough, or you might have asked specific questions in order to get a good idea of its size. The question -- especially being the entire content of the post -- is pretty vague. :) On top of that it was abbreviated. ;) How are we ever supposed to hold a conversation with you that way? I'll also say that I might expect a one-sentence post if it were, for instance, a very direct answer to a technical question. On the other hand, a one-sentence post which asks such a broad question about a broad topic is almost definitely not giving complete expression to the question. (Or it's philosophical, and not expecting an answer -- in which case, why post?) We can't see you, and we don't know you yet, so we have no idea whether (or how) we can draw any inferences from the question. In other words, it's not a matter of being textbook correct, but making yourself understood. (Wow, am I that long-winded?) Regards, Chris, who isn't even awake yet -- watch out after lunch Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 4 12:20:31 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: chris smith References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E08A@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <3C35F26F.2CBB1E97@verizon.net> Hello Chris, Are you aware that your messages seem to have no carriage returns and don't wrap in some message viewers? Please don't take this as a complaint, but this makes it more difficult to read, as I have to scroll horizontally outside the normal message viewing area. And it seems your messages are worth reading as they contain some thoughtful comment. Christopher Smith wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Golemancd@aol.com [mailto:Golemancd@aol.com] > > > has no one ever heard of that. > > pick the battles you fight. > > Of course. Is it not from Sun Tsu's "The Art of War?" > > ... but I'd hardly call typing a war. :) If it is, then it's likely that you'll want to "win" it if you plan to work with computers. > > > some one said the post didnt warrant a response. > > he was correct. i was just talking about an idea. > > thats it. it was not important. > > You must believe what you say is of some import, otherwise, why bother to post anything? People are just complaining that while you seem to care enough about what you're saying to post it, you don't seem to care enough to allow them to understand it. > > The only word of caution I would give is that this is a very "hands-on" (technical, if you prefer the term) list. If you speak about things without being detailed enough for everyone to comprehend, it may annoy several people. (Myself included, honestly. :) > > Let me give the example of your post, which said, essentially: > > "Why do you need a bigger network?" > > You might have explained why you thought that the subjects current network was big enough, or you might have asked specific questions in order to get a good idea of its size. The question -- especially being the entire content of the post -- is pretty vague. :) On top of that it was abbreviated. ;) How are we ever supposed to hold a conversation with you that way? > > I'll also say that I might expect a one-sentence post if it were, for instance, a very direct answer to a technical question. On the other hand, a one-sentence post which asks such a broad question about a broad topic is almost definitely not giving complete expression to the question. (Or it's philosophical, and not expecting an answer -- in which case, why post?) We can't see you, and we don't know you yet, so we have no idea whether (or how) we can draw any inferences from the question. > > In other words, it's not a matter of being textbook correct, but making yourself understood. > > (Wow, am I that long-winded?) > > Regards, > > Chris, who isn't even awake yet -- watch out after lunch > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Jan 4 12:24:25 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: chris smith Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E094@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Ian Koller [mailto:vze2mnvr@verizon.net] > Are you aware that your messages seem to have no > carriage returns and don't wrap in some message > viewers? Please don't take this as a complaint, > but this makes it more difficult to read, as I > have to scroll horizontally outside the normal > message viewing area. And it seems your messages > are worth reading as they contain some thoughtful > comment. I am aware, and I do try to avoid it. As I've said in a private mail to someone, my company believes that everyone should use microshaft outhouse for email. I'm really lucky to have gotten it to send messages in ASCII :/ Never mind wrapping the lines. So I do it by hand, when I remember and when I'm not rushed. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 12:52:37 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: chris smith References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E094@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <007801c19550$fa5e7060$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Actually, if you manually format your text, it will be fooled with anyway by whatever reader the recipient is using. Few readers will scroll beyond the margins, since most of them will allow you to set line width as a parameter. Microsoft Outlook and Outlook Express have a setting which will limit the width of lines that it transmits and receives. While it lets you type to the width of your display, it wraps lines by inserting "> " or whatever else you choose, at the left margin of quoted received text, and at the limits you set. After a few iterations, quoted text becomes quite difficult to read, and more so if it's formatted both manually and automatically. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Smith" To: "'Ian Koller'" ; Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 11:24 AM Subject: RE: chris smith > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ian Koller [mailto:vze2mnvr@verizon.net] > > > Are you aware that your messages seem to have no > > carriage returns and don't wrap in some message > > viewers? Please don't take this as a complaint, > > but this makes it more difficult to read, as I > > have to scroll horizontally outside the normal > > message viewing area. And it seems your messages > > are worth reading as they contain some thoughtful > > comment. > > > I am aware, and I do try to avoid it. As I've said in a private mail to someone, > my company believes that everyone should use microshaft outhouse for email. I'm > really lucky to have gotten it to send messages in ASCII :/ Never mind wrapping > the lines. So I do it by hand, when I remember and when I'm not rushed. > > Regards, > > Chris > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > > From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Jan 4 13:21:44 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: chris smith Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E096@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > Microsoft Outlook and Outlook Express have a setting which > will limit the > width of lines that it transmits and receives. While it lets News to me. I'll see if I can find it. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri Jan 4 13:25:57 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: chris smith Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467481@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] ! ...... ! ! Microsoft Outlook and Outlook Express have a setting which ! will limit the ! width of lines that it transmits and receives. While it lets ! you type to ! the width of your display, it wraps lines by inserting "> " ! or whatever else ! you choose, at the left margin of quoted received text, and ! at the ! limits you set. After a few iterations, quoted text becomes ! quite difficult ! to read, and more so if it's formatted both manually and ! automatically. Yep, I have to manually tweak messages as I reply to them (see below)... I must be doing okay, though. No one has yelled at me yet... ! > ! > I am aware, and I do try to avoid it. As I've said in a ! private mail to ! someone, ! > my company believes that everyone should use microshaft outhouse for ! email. I'm ! > really lucky to have gotten it to send messages in ASCII :/ ! Never mind ! wrapping ! > the lines. So I do it by hand, when I remember and when ! I'm not rushed. ! > ! > Regards, ! > ! > Chris --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From zaft at azstarnet.com Fri Jan 4 14:12:56 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: chris smith In-Reply-To: <57.467c62b.296701e1@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020104131042.0257cfb0@mail.azstarnet.com> At 08:02 AM 1/4/2002 -0500, you wrote: >chris >writing an idea about a hobby is not an art form. that is my point. >you only need precision when you need it. like standing in a karate >stance when there is no one to fight. you get in the stance when needed. >same with precision. pick your spots. >has no one ever heard of that. >pick the battles you fight. >you dont have to fight all of them; just the ones that matter. It's not about winning and losing, and to some extent it's not even about being understood. It's about courtesy. I was going to say "common courtesy" but of course it's not anymore (maybe it never was). While not spelling things correctly, using proper grammar, etc. may be faster, and it may even still be intelligible, it either means you a) can't do any better, or b) don't care about your reader enough to make it easy for him. In your case, I believe you basically said the latter. Gordon From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 4 11:17:44 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: RFD: SPAM Message-ID: Y'all, I've had this email account for a while, and never been particularly reticent about using or giving out the address. I've seen an unbelievable increase in incoming spam since I joined this list. Yes, I'm familiar with procmail filtering, and am about to start that, but I'm curious as to why this list in particular attracts so much garbage. I've seen a couple of other references to this, so I don't think I'm out on a limb here. What's going on, and is there a reasonable deterrent? Doc From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Jan 4 11:42:16 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: RFD: SPAM In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Jan 4, 02 11:17:44 am Message-ID: <200201041742.MAA15560@wordstock.com> Doc, What type of spam are you talking about? I have gotten a few bits that was sent through this mailing list and I get very few spam messages addressed directly to me. If I post a message to a newsgroup (like comp.sys.cbm) I will get an increase of spam for a few weeks. Bryan > > Y'all, > I've had this email account for a while, and never been particularly > reticent about using or giving out the address. I've seen an > unbelievable increase in incoming spam since I joined this list. Yes, > I'm familiar with procmail filtering, and am about to start that, but > I'm curious as to why this list in particular attracts so much garbage. > I've seen a couple of other references to this, so I don't think I'm out > on a limb here. > > What's going on, and is there a reasonable deterrent? > > Doc > > From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 4 14:07:54 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: RFD: SPAM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > Y'all, > I've had this email account for a while, and never been particularly > reticent about using or giving out the address. I've seen an > unbelievable increase in incoming spam since I joined this list. Yes, > I'm familiar with procmail filtering, and am about to start that, but > I'm curious as to why this list in particular attracts so much garbage. > I've seen a couple of other references to this, so I don't think I'm out > on a limb here. > > What's going on, and is there a reasonable deterrent? I've said this repeatedly. I use this account EXCLUSIVELY for receiving list traffic and it has NEVER received any spam outside of the occasional bullcrap that gets posted to the list directly. And no, I don't have any filtering turned on. If you're receiving an increase in spam, it's because your e-mail address is making its rounds from some other posting you have done. In spite of the fact that the archives are publicly available, the e-mail addresses of this list have somehow been miraculously spared. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Innfogra at aol.com Fri Jan 4 14:43:08 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: RFD: SPAM Message-ID: <13f.7343564.29676ddc@aol.com> In a message dated 1/4/02 12:10:24 PM Pacific Standard Time, foo@siconic.com writes: > I've said this repeatedly. I use this account EXCLUSIVELY for receiving > list traffic and it has NEVER received any spam outside of the occasional > bullcrap that gets posted to the list directly. > > And no, I don't have any filtering turned on. > I have to agree. I also use this email address for the CCMP list only. I get no spam on it except the very occasional one that is posted to the list directly. This list does not lead to increased spam. It is very well maintained. Paxton Astoria, OR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020104/2ca429c1/attachment.html From msell at ontimesupport.com Thu Jan 3 13:23:22 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <3C349A1F.8040501@cnonline.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103103503.03054b60@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103132025.02f7b7c0@127.0.0.1> In my opinion, it would be a good way to get exposed to the inner workings of VMS. What better way to learn the inner workings of an operating system than to replicate it on another platform? If anyone here on this list is involved with one of the FreeVMS projects, I'd love to hear from you. - Matt At 09:51 AM 1/3/2002 -0800, you wrote: >I for one, would LOVE to run a VMS look alike on my >i386 machine (or at least one of my spare machines...) >It would bring back younger days when I was an op on several >vaxen. (also some dg and some apollo) > >please please please!!! : ^ ) > > Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jan 3 18:46:44 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <3C349A1F.8040501@cnonline.net> Message-ID: Why not just get a VAX (or two or three?) Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Ron Hudson wrote: > Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 09:51:27 -0800 > From: Ron Hudson > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: FreeVMS > > I for one, would LOVE to run a VMS look alike on my > i386 machine (or at least one of my spare machines...) > It would bring back younger days when I was an op on several > vaxen. (also some dg and some apollo) > > please please please!!! : ^ ) > > > > Matthew Sell wrote: > > > > > > > I know I'm going to open up a can of worms on this post, but my > > curiosity is killing me.... > > > > > > Now that I have OpenVMS 6.1 running on my VAX 4000, I'm curious about > > the status of the various "FreeVMS" projects that are in progress (or so > > it would seem....). > > > > Are any of these projects really in active development? Which projects > > have the greatest potential for operation? I checked several sites > > related to "FreeVMS", which actually seems to be a common name for > > several different projects with different goals. > > > > I'd love to "cut my teeth" with kernel development after working with > > Linux for several years. I personally think it would be neat to have an > > accurate version of FreeVMS that would work on VAX, AXP, and i386 > > (gulp!). When I say accurate, I mean that FreeVMS would respond the same > > as VMS would for the various commands and peripherals. > > > > Some of you probably think it would be silly to take an i386 version of > > FreeVMS and port it "back" to VAX and AXP, but it would be a neat way to > > use FreeVMS, especially if the OpenVMS hobbyist program (or OpenVMS) > > were to go away. > > > > Nuts? Probably. Neat? Yes! > > > > Here are links to the various FreeVMS projects I have visited: > > > > http://www.panix.com/~kingdon/free-vms.html > > http://www.freevms.org/ > > http://www.djesys.com/vms/freevms/ > > > > > > - Matt > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Matthew Sell > > Programmer > > On Time Support, Inc. > > www.ontimesupport.com > > (281) 296-6066 > > > > Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! > > http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi > > > > > > "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad > > "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler > > > > Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... > > From bdwheele at indiana.edu Thu Jan 3 19:19:33 2002 From: bdwheele at indiana.edu (brian wheeler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1010107173.9032.0.camel@thor.kitty.cx> Or you could help out Bob Supnik(?) or Tim Stark on their vax emulators. SimH already will run NetBSD/VAX but fails with VMS. Brian On Thu, 2002-01-03 at 19:46, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > Why not just get a VAX (or two or three?) > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Ron Hudson wrote: > > > Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 09:51:27 -0800 > > From: Ron Hudson > > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: FreeVMS > > > > I for one, would LOVE to run a VMS look alike on my > > i386 machine (or at least one of my spare machines...) > > It would bring back younger days when I was an op on several > > vaxen. (also some dg and some apollo) > > > > please please please!!! : ^ ) > > > > > > > > Matthew Sell wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I know I'm going to open up a can of worms on this post, but my > > > curiosity is killing me.... > > > > > > > > > Now that I have OpenVMS 6.1 running on my VAX 4000, I'm curious about > > > the status of the various "FreeVMS" projects that are in progress (or so > > > it would seem....). > > > > > > Are any of these projects really in active development? Which projects > > > have the greatest potential for operation? I checked several sites > > > related to "FreeVMS", which actually seems to be a common name for > > > several different projects with different goals. > > > > > > I'd love to "cut my teeth" with kernel development after working with > > > Linux for several years. I personally think it would be neat to have an > > > accurate version of FreeVMS that would work on VAX, AXP, and i386 > > > (gulp!). When I say accurate, I mean that FreeVMS would respond the same > > > as VMS would for the various commands and peripherals. > > > > > > Some of you probably think it would be silly to take an i386 version of > > > FreeVMS and port it "back" to VAX and AXP, but it would be a neat way to > > > use FreeVMS, especially if the OpenVMS hobbyist program (or OpenVMS) > > > were to go away. > > > > > > Nuts? Probably. Neat? Yes! > > > > > > Here are links to the various FreeVMS projects I have visited: > > > > > > http://www.panix.com/~kingdon/free-vms.html > > > http://www.freevms.org/ > > > http://www.djesys.com/vms/freevms/ > > > > > > > > > - Matt > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Matthew Sell > > > Programmer > > > On Time Support, Inc. > > > www.ontimesupport.com > > > (281) 296-6066 > > > > > > Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! > > > http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi > > > > > > > > > "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad > > > "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler > > > > > > Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... > > > > From msell at ontimesupport.com Thu Jan 3 20:34:54 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <1010107173.9032.0.camel@thor.kitty.cx> References: < Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103203354.028fd4f8@127.0.0.1> Brian, Emulation of hardware wasn't my goal; I was hoping to emulate the operating system on the VAX. - Matt At 08:19 PM 1/3/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Or you could help out Bob Supnik(?) or Tim Stark on their vax >emulators. SimH already will run NetBSD/VAX but fails with VMS. > >Brian > > >On Thu, 2002-01-03 at 19:46, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > > > Why not just get a VAX (or two or three?) > > > > Peace... Sridhar > > > > On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Ron Hudson wrote: > > > > > Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 09:51:27 -0800 > > > From: Ron Hudson > > > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > Subject: Re: FreeVMS > > > > > > I for one, would LOVE to run a VMS look alike on my > > > i386 machine (or at least one of my spare machines...) > > > It would bring back younger days when I was an op on several > > > vaxen. (also some dg and some apollo) > > > > > > please please please!!! : ^ ) > > > > > > > > > > > > Matthew Sell wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know I'm going to open up a can of worms on this post, but my > > > > curiosity is killing me.... > > > > > > > > > > > > Now that I have OpenVMS 6.1 running on my VAX 4000, I'm curious about > > > > the status of the various "FreeVMS" projects that are in progress > (or so > > > > it would seem....). > > > > > > > > Are any of these projects really in active development? Which projects > > > > have the greatest potential for operation? I checked several sites > > > > related to "FreeVMS", which actually seems to be a common name for > > > > several different projects with different goals. > > > > > > > > I'd love to "cut my teeth" with kernel development after working with > > > > Linux for several years. I personally think it would be neat to have an > > > > accurate version of FreeVMS that would work on VAX, AXP, and i386 > > > > (gulp!). When I say accurate, I mean that FreeVMS would respond the > same > > > > as VMS would for the various commands and peripherals. > > > > > > > > Some of you probably think it would be silly to take an i386 version of > > > > FreeVMS and port it "back" to VAX and AXP, but it would be a neat > way to > > > > use FreeVMS, especially if the OpenVMS hobbyist program (or OpenVMS) > > > > were to go away. > > > > > > > > Nuts? Probably. Neat? Yes! > > > > > > > > Here are links to the various FreeVMS projects I have visited: > > > > > > > > http://www.panix.com/~kingdon/free-vms.html > > > > http://www.freevms.org/ > > > > http://www.djesys.com/vms/freevms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > - Matt > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Matthew Sell > > > > Programmer > > > > On Time Support, Inc. > > > > www.ontimesupport.com > > > > (281) 296-6066 > > > > > > > > Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! > > > > http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi > > > > > > > > > > > > "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad > > > > "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler > > > > > > > > Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... > > > > > > Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Jan 4 00:19:39 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: FreeVMS References: <1010107173.9032.0.camel@thor.kitty.cx> Message-ID: <3C35497B.8010702@cnonline.net> Yup, I could "help" them, probably set the effort back at least a year... :^) brian wheeler wrote: > Or you could help out Bob Supnik(?) or Tim Stark on their vax > emulators. SimH already will run NetBSD/VAX but fails with VMS. > > Brian > > > On Thu, 2002-01-03 at 19:46, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > >> Why not just get a VAX (or two or three?) $$ and X*Y*Z (money and space) :^) >> >> Peace... Sridhar From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Jan 4 08:41:48 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <3C35497B.8010702@cnonline.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Ron Hudson wrote: > Yup, I could "help" them, probably set the effort back > at least a year... :^) > > > On Thu, 2002-01-03 at 19:46, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > > >> Why not just get a VAX (or two or three?) > > $$ and X*Y*Z (money and space) :^) Also: speed. Sorry, but the new Dual ath 1.4G I hope to get with Xmas money would be tons faster than and old VAX 8650. Not as fun to play with the little computer, but much easier to carry without a pallet mover. > > >> > >> Peace... Sridhar > I have not-too-much experince with VMS, so bear with me, but wouldn't it be possible to do one of the following options: 1) Stick an 'emulation' user-mode shell on top of some free *nix 2) Take a stock free *nix kernel, and modify it to work more like VMS. While #1 (should) be rather trivial if all the catches fit into the kernel hooks (and a bit of coersion for the stranger details), #2 still saves quite a bit of work by having a framework of usable device drivers, kernel scheduler, vm, memory manangement, etc. etc. etc. Changing around the kernel's API just enuf to work wouldn't be too much of a problem. Leaving the essentials in place could mean compatibility with some existing *nix software even, and things like VMWare which would help greatly with development efforts. Of course, the problem is deciding what ONE kernel to use (prolly BSD or Linux 2.??), and how to trim down the kernel to a small set of drivers for testing it. Well, as a student, and long-time programmer (compared to other 20yr olds), that's my $0.02. --Pat From at258 at osfn.org Fri Jan 4 09:09:26 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If it doesn't have wheels, it isn't really a computer. On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Ron Hudson wrote: > > > Yup, I could "help" them, probably set the effort back > > at least a year... :^) > > > > > On Thu, 2002-01-03 at 19:46, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > > > > >> Why not just get a VAX (or two or three?) > > > > $$ and X*Y*Z (money and space) :^) > > Also: speed. Sorry, but the new Dual ath 1.4G I hope to get with Xmas > money would be tons faster than and old VAX 8650. Not as fun to play with > the little computer, but much easier to carry without a pallet mover. > > > > > >> > > >> Peace... Sridhar > > > > I have not-too-much experince with VMS, so bear with me, but wouldn't it > be possible to do one of the following options: > > 1) Stick an 'emulation' user-mode shell on top of some free *nix > > 2) Take a stock free *nix kernel, and modify it to work more like VMS. > > While #1 (should) be rather trivial if all the catches fit into the kernel > hooks (and a bit of coersion for the stranger details), #2 still saves > quite a bit of work by having a framework of usable device drivers, kernel > scheduler, vm, memory manangement, etc. etc. etc. Changing around the > kernel's API just enuf to work wouldn't be too much of a problem. Leaving > the essentials in place could mean compatibility with some existing *nix > software even, and things like VMWare which would help greatly with > development efforts. > > Of course, the problem is deciding what ONE kernel to use (prolly BSD or > Linux 2.??), and how to trim down the kernel to a small set of drivers for > testing it. > > Well, as a student, and long-time programmer (compared to other 20yr > olds), that's my $0.02. > > --Pat > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Jan 4 09:38:24 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > If it doesn't have wheels, it isn't really a computer. > Actually if i wanted to get a new tower case, i COULD get a tower case with casters already attached for about $300 new.... but i like to save money for other things.......... > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > > > On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Ron Hudson wrote: > > > > > Yup, I could "help" them, probably set the effort back > > > at least a year... :^) > > > > > > > On Thu, 2002-01-03 at 19:46, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > > > > > > >> Why not just get a VAX (or two or three?) > > > > > > $$ and X*Y*Z (money and space) :^) > > > > Also: speed. Sorry, but the new Dual ath 1.4G I hope to get with Xmas > > money would be tons faster than and old VAX 8650. Not as fun to play with > > the little computer, but much easier to carry without a pallet mover. > > -- Pat From at258 at osfn.org Fri Jan 4 11:34:24 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Take them off your System 36. ;) On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > > If it doesn't have wheels, it isn't really a computer. > > > > Actually if i wanted to get a new tower case, i COULD get a tower case > with casters already attached for about $300 new.... but i like to save > money for other things.......... > > > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > > > > > On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Ron Hudson wrote: > > > > > > > Yup, I could "help" them, probably set the effort back > > > > at least a year... :^) > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2002-01-03 at 19:46, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Why not just get a VAX (or two or three?) > > > > > > > > $$ and X*Y*Z (money and space) :^) > > > > > > Also: speed. Sorry, but the new Dual ath 1.4G I hope to get with Xmas > > > money would be tons faster than and old VAX 8650. Not as fun to play with > > > the little computer, but much easier to carry without a pallet mover. > > > > > -- Pat > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Jan 4 12:38:47 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: AT&T hardware (was Re: FreeVMS) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > Take them off your System 36. ;) Ooh you made me think of something (I actually had thought about getting a S/36 off of ebay, but didnt wanna spend it on the shipping again.) Question: I have an AT&T 6544 'cluster controller' I got off of ebay this past summer. (July I believe) I now have it, but the hard drive (an ST-225 scsi drive) was crashed beyond all belief: about 1 in 10 or > sectors are unreadble on my desktop. The thing wont boot or do anything. I've found one company (Telemechanics) that seems to support them, but i'm sure i don't want to spend the few hundred++ dollars that they'd want for a new drive and software. I was wondering if anyone has software or helpful info on the device. Thanks much! > > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > > > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > > > > If it doesn't have wheels, it isn't really a computer. > > > > > > > Actually if i wanted to get a new tower case, i COULD get a tower case > > with casters already attached for about $300 new.... but i like to save > > money for other things.......... > > -- Pat From msell at ontimesupport.com Fri Jan 4 11:11:57 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020104111056.034236a0@127.0.0.1> You forgot about the weight..... If it doesn't have enough mass to border on creating a "black hole", all the while consuming enormous amounts of energy.... : ) - Matt At 10:09 AM 1/4/2002 -0500, you wrote: >If it doesn't have wheels, it isn't really a computer. > >On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > > > On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Ron Hudson wrote: > > > > > Yup, I could "help" them, probably set the effort back > > > at least a year... :^) > > > > > > > On Thu, 2002-01-03 at 19:46, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > > > > > > >> Why not just get a VAX (or two or three?) > > > > > > $$ and X*Y*Z (money and space) :^) > > > > Also: speed. Sorry, but the new Dual ath 1.4G I hope to get with Xmas > > money would be tons faster than and old VAX 8650. Not as fun to play with > > the little computer, but much easier to carry without a pallet mover. > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> Peace... Sridhar > > > > > > > I have not-too-much experince with VMS, so bear with me, but wouldn't it > > be possible to do one of the following options: > > > > 1) Stick an 'emulation' user-mode shell on top of some free *nix > > > > 2) Take a stock free *nix kernel, and modify it to work more like VMS. > > > > While #1 (should) be rather trivial if all the catches fit into the kernel > > hooks (and a bit of coersion for the stranger details), #2 still saves > > quite a bit of work by having a framework of usable device drivers, kernel > > scheduler, vm, memory manangement, etc. etc. etc. Changing around the > > kernel's API just enuf to work wouldn't be too much of a problem. Leaving > > the essentials in place could mean compatibility with some existing *nix > > software even, and things like VMWare which would help greatly with > > development efforts. > > > > Of course, the problem is deciding what ONE kernel to use (prolly BSD or > > Linux 2.??), and how to trim down the kernel to a small set of drivers for > > testing it. > > > > Well, as a student, and long-time programmer (compared to other 20yr > > olds), that's my $0.02. > > > > --Pat > > > > > >M. K. Peirce > >Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. >Shady Lea, Rhode Island > >"Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From msell at ontimesupport.com Fri Jan 4 11:10:11 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: References: <3C35497B.8010702@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020104110731.03425d00@127.0.0.1> Replies throughout..... >I have not-too-much experince with VMS, so bear with me, but wouldn't it >be possible to do one of the following options: > >1) Stick an 'emulation' user-mode shell on top of some free *nix > >2) Take a stock free *nix kernel, and modify it to work more like VMS. That was the idea. I thought of taking FreeBSD, and add device drivers for peripherals and filesystems, as well as implementing the "shell". I do have various VAXen to test this on. >Of course, the problem is deciding what ONE kernel to use (prolly BSD or >Linux 2.??), and how to trim down the kernel to a small set of drivers for >testing it. I was thinking about using FreeBSD, simply for the availability of many platform ports, including VAX. - Matt Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Jan 4 13:04:00 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020104110731.03425d00@127.0.0.1>; from msell@ontimesupport.com on Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 18:10:11 CET References: <3C35497B.8010702@cnonline.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020104110731.03425d00@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <20020104200400.I7676@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.01.04 18:10 Matthew Sell wrote: > I was thinking about using FreeBSD, simply for the availability of > many platform ports, including VAX. Ahhh? Are you mixing up FreeBSD and NetBSD? FreeBSD is a PeeCee (and Alpha) thing while NetBSD is the multi platform OS that runs on VAXen and around two dozen other architectures. Besides that, I think it would be hard to turn a *ix kernel in a VMS like kernel. E. g. VMS has a very different security and shared library model. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From msell at ontimesupport.com Thu Jan 3 20:33:43 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: References: <3C349A1F.8040501@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103203106.028fc0c0@127.0.0.1> The actual idea was to create or assist with the creation of a completely "free" (GNU?) implementation of VMS that "looks and feels" just like the original. The next step was to port this version of FreeVMS to i386, VAX, and AXP. I've seen a few projects that have started or have stopped that attempt to achieve similar goals. - Matt At 07:46 PM 1/3/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Why not just get a VAX (or two or three?) > >Peace... Sridhar > >On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Ron Hudson wrote: > > > Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 09:51:27 -0800 > > From: Ron Hudson > > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: FreeVMS > > > > I for one, would LOVE to run a VMS look alike on my > > i386 machine (or at least one of my spare machines...) > > It would bring back younger days when I was an op on several > > vaxen. (also some dg and some apollo) > > > > please please please!!! : ^ ) > > > > > > > > Matthew Sell wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I know I'm going to open up a can of worms on this post, but my > > > curiosity is killing me.... > > > > > > > > > Now that I have OpenVMS 6.1 running on my VAX 4000, I'm curious about > > > the status of the various "FreeVMS" projects that are in progress (or so > > > it would seem....). > > > > > > Are any of these projects really in active development? Which projects > > > have the greatest potential for operation? I checked several sites > > > related to "FreeVMS", which actually seems to be a common name for > > > several different projects with different goals. > > > > > > I'd love to "cut my teeth" with kernel development after working with > > > Linux for several years. I personally think it would be neat to have an > > > accurate version of FreeVMS that would work on VAX, AXP, and i386 > > > (gulp!). When I say accurate, I mean that FreeVMS would respond the same > > > as VMS would for the various commands and peripherals. > > > > > > Some of you probably think it would be silly to take an i386 version of > > > FreeVMS and port it "back" to VAX and AXP, but it would be a neat way to > > > use FreeVMS, especially if the OpenVMS hobbyist program (or OpenVMS) > > > were to go away. > > > > > > Nuts? Probably. Neat? Yes! > > > > > > Here are links to the various FreeVMS projects I have visited: > > > > > > http://www.panix.com/~kingdon/free-vms.html > > > http://www.freevms.org/ > > > http://www.djesys.com/vms/freevms/ > > > > > > > > > - Matt > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Matthew Sell > > > Programmer > > > On Time Support, Inc. > > > www.ontimesupport.com > > > (281) 296-6066 > > > > > > Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! > > > http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi > > > > > > > > > "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad > > > "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler > > > > > > Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... > > > > Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From pechter at bg-tc-ppp438.monmouth.com Fri Jan 4 09:36:22 2002 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp438.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103203106.028fc0c0@127.0.0.1> from Matthew Sell at "Jan 3, 2002 08:33:43 pm" Message-ID: <200201041536.g04FaNr91715@bg-tc-ppp438.monmouth.com> > > The actual idea was to create or assist with the creation of a completely > "free" (GNU?) implementation of VMS that "looks and feels" just like the > original. > > The next step was to port this version of FreeVMS to i386, VAX, and AXP. > > I've seen a few projects that have started or have stopped that attempt to > achieve similar goals. > > > - Matt The problem is VMS uses 4 separate CPU modes, besides the Unix kernel and user modes which makes it difficult if not impossible to get it right on x86. Bill From spc at conman.org Fri Jan 4 12:21:35 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <200201041536.g04FaNr91715@bg-tc-ppp438.monmouth.com> from "Bill Pechter" at Jan 04, 2002 10:36:22 AM Message-ID: <200201041821.NAA07382@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Bill Pechter once stated: > > > The actual idea was to create or assist with the creation of a completely > > "free" (GNU?) implementation of VMS that "looks and feels" just like the > > original. > > > > The next step was to port this version of FreeVMS to i386, VAX, and AXP. > > > > I've seen a few projects that have started or have stopped that attempt to > > achieve similar goals. > > The problem is VMS uses 4 separate CPU modes, besides the Unix kernel > and user modes which makes it difficult if not impossible to get > it right on x86. What do you mean by that? The 286 and above have four levels of protection, from ring 0 (all instructions available, all resources visible) to ring 3 (only common registers and instructions available, no (or very limited) resources visible). Most Unix systems for the 386 and above use 0 for kernel, 3 for user and don't bother to use the other two levels. OS/2 may have used the other rings though (it's been over 10 years since I've used OS/2). Then there are the operating modes supported on the 286 and above: real mode (which looks like a very fast 8086) and protected mode. The 386 and above also have a virtual 8086 mode, which allows you to run real mode code under a protected OS---the real mode is virtualized (to an extent, I don't think it's pure vitualizasion like you can get on the IBM 360 line). There is an undocumented mode---real-32 bit (where the CPU is in 32-bit mode, but not running protected) but that's a hack and is probably not recomended. The 386 also has a paging system (in addition to a segmentation system but I'm not going into the details of that) so I don't see why VMS couldn't run on the 386. I do know that the VAX architecture had four address spaces (P0, P1, System, unused) and that can be simulated. -spc (I think you are talking about kernel, executive, supervisor and user, which map quite well to rings 0 to 3 on the 386) From msell at ontimesupport.com Fri Jan 4 11:14:48 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <200201041536.g04FaNr91715@bg-tc-ppp438.monmouth.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103203106.028fc0c0@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020104111212.03423280@127.0.0.1> From what I understand of the Linux kernel, it uses two, and the i386 has three modes of operation. Don't forget that FreeBSD already runs on the VAX, and FreeVMS (in my project concept) would be an extension and implementation of the existing FreeBSD kernel so that it "looks and feels" like VMS. I also wanted this implementation of FreeBSD to use native DEC filesystems and operate classic DEC hardware. - Matt At 10:36 AM 1/4/2002 -0500, you wrote: > > > > The actual idea was to create or assist with the creation of a completely > > "free" (GNU?) implementation of VMS that "looks and feels" just like the > > original. > > > > The next step was to port this version of FreeVMS to i386, VAX, and AXP. > > > > I've seen a few projects that have started or have stopped that attempt to > > achieve similar goals. > > > > > > - Matt > >The problem is VMS uses 4 separate CPU modes, besides the Unix kernel >and user modes which makes it difficult if not impossible to get >it right on x86. > >Bill Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From dtwright at uiuc.edu Fri Jan 4 11:32:46 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:07 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020104111212.03423280@127.0.0.1>; from msell@ontimesupport.com on Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 11:14:48AM -0600 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103203106.028fc0c0@127.0.0.1> <200201041536.g04FaNr91715@bg-tc-ppp438.monmouth.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020104111212.03423280@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <20020104113246.E890971@uiuc.edu> Matthew Sell said: > > Don't forget that FreeBSD already runs on the VAX, and FreeVMS (in my > project concept) would be an extension and implementation of the existing > FreeBSD kernel so that it "looks and feels" like VMS. I thought that FreeBSD only ran on x86 and Alpha? I believe you may be thinking of NetBSD rather then FreeBSD here... > > I also wanted this implementation of FreeBSD to use native DEC filesystems > and operate classic DEC hardware. > > > - Matt > > > > At 10:36 AM 1/4/2002 -0500, you wrote: > > > > > > The actual idea was to create or assist with the creation of a completely > > > "free" (GNU?) implementation of VMS that "looks and feels" just like the > > > original. > > > > > > The next step was to port this version of FreeVMS to i386, VAX, and AXP. > > > > > > I've seen a few projects that have started or have stopped that attempt to > > > achieve similar goals. > > > > > > > > > - Matt > > > >The problem is VMS uses 4 separate CPU modes, besides the Unix kernel > >and user modes which makes it difficult if not impossible to get > >it right on x86. > > > >Bill > > > > Matthew Sell > Programmer > On Time Support, Inc. > www.ontimesupport.com > (281) 296-6066 > > Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! > http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi > > > "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad > "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler > > Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 229 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020104/53dd17f1/attachment.bin From msell at ontimesupport.com Fri Jan 4 11:56:58 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <20020104113246.E890971@uiuc.edu> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020104111212.03423280@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20020103203106.028fc0c0@127.0.0.1> <200201041536.g04FaNr91715@bg-tc-ppp438.monmouth.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020104111212.03423280@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020104115617.03430cc8@127.0.0.1> Actually, you are correct about FreeBSD. What I meant was NetBSD..... - Matt At 11:32 AM 1/4/2002 -0600, you wrote: >Matthew Sell said: > > > > Don't forget that FreeBSD already runs on the VAX, and FreeVMS (in my > > project concept) would be an extension and implementation of the existing > > FreeBSD kernel so that it "looks and feels" like VMS. > >I thought that FreeBSD only ran on x86 and Alpha? I believe you may be >thinking of NetBSD rather then FreeBSD here... > > > > > I also wanted this implementation of FreeBSD to use native DEC filesystems > > and operate classic DEC hardware. > > > > > > - Matt > > > > > > > > At 10:36 AM 1/4/2002 -0500, you wrote: > > > > > > > > The actual idea was to create or assist with the creation of a > completely > > > > "free" (GNU?) implementation of VMS that "looks and feels" just > like the > > > > original. > > > > > > > > The next step was to port this version of FreeVMS to i386, VAX, and > AXP. > > > > > > > > I've seen a few projects that have started or have stopped that > attempt to > > > > achieve similar goals. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Matt > > > > > >The problem is VMS uses 4 separate CPU modes, besides the Unix kernel > > >and user modes which makes it difficult if not impossible to get > > >it right on x86. > > > > > >Bill > > > > > > > > Matthew Sell > > Programmer > > On Time Support, Inc. > > www.ontimesupport.com > > (281) 296-6066 > > > > Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! > > http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi > > > > > > "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad > > "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler > > > > Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... >- Dan Wright >(dtwright@uiuc.edu) >(http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) > >-] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- >``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, > For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' > Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Jan 4 11:27:14 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: FreeVMS Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E08F@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Pat Finnegan [mailto:pat@purdueriots.com] > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > > If it doesn't have wheels, it isn't really a computer. > Actually if i wanted to get a new tower case, i COULD get a tower case > with casters already attached for about $300 new.... but i > like to save > money for other things.......... I would add that a real computer must have a console monitor in firmware, and have the option of attaching an independent single device (as in a serial terminal) to use for a console. KVM switches don't count, of course ;) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Jan 4 12:31:23 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E08F@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Pat Finnegan [mailto:pat@purdueriots.com] > > > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > > > > If it doesn't have wheels, it isn't really a computer. > > > Actually if i wanted to get a new tower case, i COULD get a tower case > > with casters already attached for about $300 new.... but i > > like to save > > money for other things.......... > > I would add that a real computer must have a console monitor in firmware, and have the option of attaching an independent single device (as in a serial terminal) to use for a console. KVM switches don't count, of course ;) > I guess then, if i went to the store and mounted casters on my Sun SparcStation 1, it'd be a 'real computer'. Of course if nothing else, it'd be a 'really slow computer' that rolls faster than the framebuffer can scroll text. (hehe) > Regards, > > Chris > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 4 15:18:08 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: Speeding up a SPARC1? (was RE: FreeVMS) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020104211808.6085.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> --- Pat Finnegan wrote: > > > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > > > If it doesn't have wheels, it isn't really a computer. > > I guess then, if i went to the store and mounted casters on my Sun > SparcStation 1, it'd be a 'real computer'. I'm tempted to do that. myself, just to take a picture of it. Does that mean the best way to accelerate a SPARC1 is to put wheels and an Estes engine on it? (Remember the joke about accelerating a Macintosh is best done at 9.8m/s^2?) > Of course if nothing else, it'd be a 'really slow computer' that rolls > faster than the framebuffer can scroll text. (hehe) Try replacing the CG6 with a CG3. The scroll speed on a SPARC1 + CG3 is painful. I'd rather scroll text on a PET. If you need a dual-width CG6, make me an offer. I have spares. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From msell at ontimesupport.com Fri Jan 4 13:14:57 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E08F@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020104131359.03286f20@127.0.0.1> Actually you would have to add 900 lbs. of lead, and include a 1000 watt space heater..... - Matt >I guess then, if i went to the store and mounted casters on my Sun >SparcStation 1, it'd be a 'real computer'. Of course if nothing else, >it'd be a 'really slow computer' that rolls faster than the framebuffer >can scroll text. (hehe) > > > Regards, > > > > Chris > > > > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > > ' > > > > Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 4 14:37:46 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020104131359.03286f20@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Matthew Sell wrote: > > Actually you would have to add 900 lbs. of lead, and include a 1000 watt > space heater..... > > - Matt You mean my VS4000 isn't real? Waaahhhh.... Doc From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri Jan 4 11:43:17 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: FreeVMS Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146747C@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Matthew Sell ! ! From what I understand of the Linux kernel, it uses two, and ! the i386 has ! three modes of operation. ! ! Don't forget that FreeBSD already runs on the VAX, and FreeVMS (in my ! project concept) would be an extension and implementation of ! the existing ! FreeBSD kernel so that it "looks and feels" like VMS. ! ! I also wanted this implementation of FreeBSD to use native ! DEC filesystems ! and operate classic DEC hardware. Poking around through NetBSD also would probably be helpful. That runs on 30+ architectures, and FreeBSD & NetBSD often use the same source code for drivers too... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From msell at ontimesupport.com Fri Jan 4 11:58:14 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146747C@yalepress3.unipre ss.yale.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020104115712.03281b28@127.0.0.1> David, Yeah - messed up again. I really meant to say "NetBSD", and not "FreeBSD" all the while. Maybe FreeBSD would be good for my "Unibus VAX 4000" ? : ) - Matt At 12:43 PM 1/4/2002 -0500, you wrote: >! -----Original Message----- >! From: Matthew Sell >! >! From what I understand of the Linux kernel, it uses two, and >! the i386 has >! three modes of operation. >! >! Don't forget that FreeBSD already runs on the VAX, and FreeVMS (in my >! project concept) would be an extension and implementation of >! the existing >! FreeBSD kernel so that it "looks and feels" like VMS. >! >! I also wanted this implementation of FreeBSD to use native >! DEC filesystems >! and operate classic DEC hardware. > > Poking around through NetBSD also would probably be helpful. That >runs on 30+ architectures, and FreeBSD & NetBSD often use the same source >code for drivers too... > >--- David A Woyciesjes >--- C & IS Support Specialist >--- Yale University Press >--- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu >--- (203) 432-0953 >--- ICQ # - 905818 Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri Jan 4 12:20:43 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: FreeVMS Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146747F@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! From: Matthew Sell [mailto:msell@ontimesupport.com] ! ! David, ! ! ! Yeah - messed up again. I really meant to say "NetBSD", and ! not "FreeBSD" all the while. ! ! Maybe FreeBSD would be good for my "Unibus VAX 4000" ? ! ! : ) ! ! ! - Matt Yeah, it should be about the right speed.... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From hans at Huebner.ORG Fri Jan 4 13:14:25 2002 From: hans at Huebner.ORG (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hans_H=FCbner?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103103503.03054b60@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <20020104200108.E82112-100000@mail.huebner.org> I'm not convinced that it makes sense to keep the FreeVMS idea up. It just does not make sense: - OpenVMS is a mature environment. Maturity and obsolescense are tightly coupled, but one thing is sure right now: VMS is 24 years old, many of the ideas which influenced its design where intimately coupled to the computing style of the late 1970ies (Minicomputers, CISC, large systems etc.) - OpenVMS is complete. Reimplementing even only a limited subset of VMS would be a real ambitious effort. Reimplementing it in a portable way would be even harder, as the operating system is tightly coupled to the design of the DEC CPUs. - OpenVMS is completely different. It is not Unix with a funny command shell. It has logical names, asynchronous I/O and generic traps available to user programs, it has fat processes and a command interpreter in supervisor mode, it has logical names which are visible process-, job-, group or system-wide, it has fine-grained privileges, cluster-wide lock management, a file system with structured files, it has a structured command line with unified command and argument parsing, structured error messages etc etc. The whole power of VMS becomes visible only if the complete system is at your disposal. Porting Unix applications to VMS is usually a pain and I can see no sensible reason why one would want to write applications for an operating system which could, at best, reach the maturity of VMS 1.x in a few years from now. I can understand the urge to write an own operating system. Re-writing a proprietary or obsolete OS from the past would be the wrong way to enhance the world. We already see the pain one has to experience when being faced with Unix rewrites. If what you want is use the coolest operating system of the world, get a VAX or an Alpha and run OpenVMS. It's ready to use, it is complete and it is pretty cool. -Hans -- finger hans@huebner.org for details From msell at ontimesupport.com Fri Jan 4 14:07:39 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <20020104200108.E82112-100000@mail.huebner.org> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103103503.03054b60@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020104133352.03291170@127.0.0.1> >I'm not convinced that it makes sense to keep the FreeVMS idea up. It just >does not make sense: It really doesn't matter if it makes sense or not. If it's something that is already underway, then I'd like to assist. If not, then I'd like to start working on it. It's my time and computing equipment, anyway. I really don't care if anyone thinks it makes sense or not. Originally I was asking if anyone had dealings with people who were involved in such an undertaking. I didn't buy an 11/780 to sit around and look pretty. With time and electricity permitting, I intend to actually learn from it. I'll probably spend more time on my 11/750 for obvious budgetary and cooling reasons, though. - OpenVMS is complete. Reimplementing even only a limited subset of VMS would >be a real ambitious effort. Reimplementing it in a portable way would be even >harder, as the operating system is tightly coupled to the design of the DEC >CPUs. Difficulty of re-implementation has no effect whatsoever on this. This is a hobby isn't it? If not, why don't we all just junk these old computers and get new ones. After all, new computers are much faster and can play the newest games, right? If difficulty was the reason for not doing something, then we all must be crazy for spending our time with these old computers. >Porting Unix applications to VMS is usually a pain and I can see no sensible >reason why one would want to write applications for an operating system which >could, at best, reach the maturity of VMS 1.x in a few years from now. Port what UNIX apps? Other than starting with a UNIX-based kernel, the goal would be to run VMS apps, not UNIX apps. In a few years from now, FreeVMS 0.x may be the only VMS around..... >I can understand the urge to write an own operating system. Re-writing a >proprietary or obsolete OS from the past would be the wrong way to enhance the >world. We already see the pain one has to experience when being faced with >Unix rewrites. I don't care about enhancing the world with a new OS. That's what Linux and the BSD's are for. Again, I really don't care if anyone wants to help, or if anyone even thinks this is a good idea. Having others support this means nothing to me as well. I was just wondering if anyone else has tried this. >If what you want is use the coolest operating system of the world, get a VAX >or an Alpha and run OpenVMS. It's ready to use, it is complete and it is >pretty cool. Hans, did you read my original post? I already have VMS, and several VAXen. If you were to check with my orignal post, and substitute "NetBSD" for "FreeBSD" you would see I want to accomplish. There are several reasons why this is a good idea in MY opinion. Some are only good reasons for me, others could be helpful to the classic community. How much longer is Compaq going to keep OpenVMS alive? I think it's days are numbered. Why port a 20+ year old OS to the Itanium? I know Compaq says they are doing it, but will anyone put money down on it? How many? Too many IS weenies seem to think that Windows 2000 will solve most of the world's problems anyway. What chance does VMS have against this? Heck, Compaq has pissed away everything else they gained from DEC...... Anybody who thinks OpenVMS will be viable 10 years from now needs to visit a psychiatrist. Just my opinion.... - Matt Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From pechter at bg-tc-ppp122.monmouth.com Fri Jan 4 16:27:26 2002 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp122.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020104133352.03291170@127.0.0.1> from Matthew Sell at "Jan 4, 2002 02:07:39 pm" Message-ID: <200201042227.g04MRQp98147@bg-tc-ppp122.monmouth.com> > What chance does VMS have against this? Heck, Compaq has > pissed away everything else they gained from DEC...... > > Anybody who thinks OpenVMS will be viable 10 years from now needs to visit > a psychiatrist. Just my opinion.... > > > - Matt > > > > > Matthew Sell > Programmer > On Time Support, Inc. > www.ontimesupport.com > (281) 296-6066 VMS's best hope is being sold to a third party. FreeVMS is probably a good idea. I bet it's too difficult to implement on top of a Unix kernel, though. Bill From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Jan 3 13:39:11 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: Ultrix 4.4 and VaxStation 3100 Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146746E@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Clint Wolff (VAX collector) [mailto:vaxman@earthlink.net] ! ! ! The last I heard, NetBSD didn't support any sort of graphics console. ! Not even as a text only console... ! ! Clint ! ! On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: ! ! > ! From: Jochen Kunz [mailto:jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de] ! > ! ! > ! ! > ! > (assuming X11 worked on ! > ! > the Vaxstation 3100 under Ultrix -- I assume it would.) ! > ! AFAIK the SPX graphics was not supported, only the mono and GPX ! > ! framebuffers. ! > ! > So there is some chance of NetBSD/Xwindows running on my ! > b&w 3100m38? ! > ! > --- David A Woyciesjes So, the monitor and keyboard hooked directly to the back of the VAXStation 3100 M38 is not a text only console? What kind of console is it then? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From meltlet at fastmail.fm Thu Jan 3 17:34:19 2002 From: meltlet at fastmail.fm (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: Ultrix 4.4 and VaxStation 3100 In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146746E@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146746E@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <1010100862.2308.9.camel@stolichnaya> On Thu, 2002-01-03 at 19:39, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > > ! -----Original Message----- > ! From: Clint Wolff (VAX collector) [mailto:vaxman@earthlink.net] > ! > ! > ! The last I heard, NetBSD didn't support any sort of graphics console. > ! Not even as a text only console... > ! > ! Clint > ! > ! On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > ! > ! > ! From: Jochen Kunz [mailto:jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de] > ! > ! > ! > ! > ! > ! > (assuming X11 worked on > ! > ! > the Vaxstation 3100 under Ultrix -- I assume it would.) > ! > ! AFAIK the SPX graphics was not supported, only the mono and GPX > ! > ! framebuffers. > ! > > ! > So there is some chance of NetBSD/Xwindows running on my > ! > b&w 3100m38? > ! > > ! > --- David A Woyciesjes > > So, the monitor and keyboard hooked directly to the back of the VAXStation > 3100 M38 is not a text only console? What kind of console is it then? It could either be mono, or 4- or 8-plane graphics IIRC. Designed to run DECwindows, there have apparently been two ports of X11 to it under NetBSD - see the thread called "x-server and security.tgz for NetBSD 1.5" at http://mail-index.netbsd.org/port-vax/2000/11/ for the rough info - if you know any more please tell us... Alex From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1360.monmouth.com Thu Jan 3 19:00:49 2002 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1360.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: Ultrix 4.4 and VaxStation 3100 In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146746E@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> from David Woyciesjes at "Jan 3, 2002 02:39:11 pm" Message-ID: <200201040100.g0410nq63358@bg-tc-ppp1360.monmouth.com> > So, the monitor and keyboard hooked directly to the back of the VAXStation > 3100 M38 is not a text only console? What kind of console is it then? > > --- David A Woyciesjes > --- C & IS Support Specialist > --- Yale University Press > --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu > --- (203) 432-0953 > --- ICQ # - 905818 Well under the VMS I'm running it's a fairly good Xwindows (slow) device pretty close to an early RS6000 or Sun Sparc. I just wish I had full X support with Unix so I could boot it into both OS's and have full windowing. Bill -- d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri Jan 4 09:38:47 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: Ultrix 4.4 and VaxStation 3100 Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467476@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Might be some confusion, so here's how the conversation went, at least the way I saw it..... (edited for ease of reading...) > (assuming X11 worked on the Vaxstation 3100 > under Ultrix - I assume it would.) > > ! AFAIK the SPX graphics was not supported, only the ! mono and GPX framebuffers. ! ! Jochen Kunz > So there is some chance of NetBSD/Xwindows running on my > b&w 3100m38? > > David A Woyciesjes ! From: Clint Wolff (VAX collector) ! ! The last I heard, NetBSD didn't support any sort of ! graphics console. Not even as a text only console... ! ! Clint > So, the monitor and keyboard hooked directly to > the back of the VAXStation > 3100 M38 is not a text only console? What kind of console > is it then? > > David A Woyciesjes ! From: Alex White ! ! It could either be mono, or 4- or 8-plane graphics IIRC. ! Designed to run ! DECwindows, there have apparently been two ports of X11 to it under ! NetBSD - see the thread called "x-server and security.tgz for NetBSD ! 1.5" at http://mail-index.netbsd.org/port-vax/2000/11/ for the rough ! info - if you know any more please tell us... That's what I thought. Well, what I was trying to say, and maybe not clearly, is my VAXStation has a black & white graphics. It's currently running NetBSD 1.5 right now, text only, no X11. I have seen it run DECWindows. That was before work sold it to me and wiped the drives... Grrr... About all I know at the moment, but hopefully soon I'll have time to contribute to the effort of creating an XServer for this puppy. :-) That's where my previous comment came from, the confusion of what kind of console is on it... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jan 3 14:36:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: ICQ etc. "text" (was: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Get used to it, folks ... it's that "text-messaging" mentality taking over. If he were to have said that it was because he has no arms and is pecking it out with a mouth stick, or entering text in hex in a Kim, ... then we would certainly be more tolerant. If it is being done in order to be K00L, then it doesn't work here. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Jan 3 16:20:57 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: Can a Mac create an AMIGA system disk? Message-ID: <4a.4631f39.29663349@aol.com> If a PC cannot, can a mac do it? I've got a performa or quadra just waiting to do something here. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum/home of command central south www.nothingtodo.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jan 3 16:38:11 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: Can a Mac create an AMIGA system disk? In-Reply-To: from "SUPRDAVE@aol.com" at Jan 03, 2002 05:20:57 PM Message-ID: <200201032238.g03McBx18353@shell1.aracnet.com> > If a PC cannot, can a mac do it? I've got a performa or quadra just waiting > to do something here. No. However, a PC with a Catweasel board can. Zane From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jan 3 17:05:05 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: Can a Mac create an AMIGA system disk? In-Reply-To: <200201032238.g03McBx18353@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: > > If a PC cannot, can a mac do it? I've got a performa or quadra just waiting > > to do something here. > No. > However, a PC with a Catweasel board can. Before we go through ANOTHER complete iteration of this loop, could you please say whether > However, a PC with a Catweasel board can. means that it DOES do it, and you have done it, (I WILL believe you) or: means that it SHOULD be able to do it, but you haven't actually seen it happen, or: means that it SHOULD be able to do it, as soon as somebody gets around to writing software that doesn't yet exist. Also: (PLEASE!) with what software?, and under what OS? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jan 3 19:05:27 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: Can a Mac create an AMIGA system disk? In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" at Jan 03, 2002 03:05:05 PM Message-ID: <200201040105.g0415Rl27671@shell1.aracnet.com> > > > > If a PC cannot, can a mac do it? I've got a performa or quadra just waiting > > > to do something here. > > No. > > However, a PC with a Catweasel board can. > > Before we go through ANOTHER complete iteration of this loop, could you > please say whether > > However, a PC with a Catweasel board can. > means that it DOES do it, and you have done it, (I WILL believe you) > or: > means that it SHOULD be able to do it, but you haven't actually seen it > happen, > or: > means that it SHOULD be able to do it, as soon as somebody gets around to > writing software that doesn't yet exist. > > > Also: (PLEASE!) > with what software?, and under what OS? This is one of the things the Catweasel board is supposed to do. I've got one in my Amiga 3000. In all honesty I've been less than happy with it, as I'm only able to read/write FAT, Mac, Amiga, and C64 disks (while it was advertised as doing much more). The PC version is supposed to have far better software support and work under both some MS OS or another and Linux. Since it is being marketed on the PC specifically to read and write *Amiga* floppies, one can only hope that it does in fact do just that. Zane From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jan 3 16:43:59 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: Pro380 question In-Reply-To: <189.1664b45.296633ce@aol.com> References: <189.1664b45.296633ce@aol.com> Message-ID: Since I've got a nice Pro380 with a few options, such as the decna adapter, what would be the most flexible setup for this machine? I'd really like to work with this machine but am not too impressed with POS. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Jan 4 03:20:33 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: Pro380 question In-Reply-To: ; from jhellige@earthlink.net on Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 23:43:59 CET References: <189.1664b45.296633ce@aol.com> Message-ID: <20020104102033.A7676@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.01.03 23:43 Jeff Hellige wrote: > Since I've got a nice Pro380 with a few options, such as the > decna adapter, what would be the most flexible setup for this > machine? I'd really like to work with this machine but am not too > impressed with POS. http://minnie.tuhs.org/PUPS/pupsfaq.html answeres the question "I have a Pro 350 or 380. What can I do?" with: Get Venix from sunsite.unc.edu. This is a System III variant, in binary-only format. ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/venix/ -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From pechter at bg-tc-ppp438.monmouth.com Fri Jan 4 09:28:46 2002 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp438.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: Pro380 question In-Reply-To: <20020104102033.A7676@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from Jochen Kunz at "Jan 4, 2002 10:20:33 am" Message-ID: <200201041528.g04FSkd89577@bg-tc-ppp438.monmouth.com> > On 2002.01.03 23:43 Jeff Hellige wrote: > > Since I've got a nice Pro380 with a few options, such as the > > decna adapter, what would be the most flexible setup for this > > machine? I'd really like to work with this machine but am not too > > impressed with POS. > http://minnie.tuhs.org/PUPS/pupsfaq.html > answeres the question "I have a Pro 350 or 380. What can I do?" with: > Get Venix from sunsite.unc.edu. This is a System III variant, in > binary-only format. > ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/venix/ > -- > > > > tsch??, > Jochen I believe someone recently found a modified 2.9BSD for the Pro and uploaded it to the group. I pulled a tar file of sys and includes from the incoming directory on minnie... Seems like good news... Bill Bill From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jan 3 17:02:21 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: Pro380 question In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Jan 03, 2002 05:43:59 PM Message-ID: <200201032302.g03N2Lk20204@shell1.aracnet.com> > Since I've got a nice Pro380 with a few options, such as the > decna adapter, what would be the most flexible setup for this > machine? I'd really like to work with this machine but am not too > impressed with POS. > > Jeff You've got a DECNA for it? Wow! Lucky bum! I'd say your best choice for an OS would be RT-11 with the free TCP/IP stack. In fact I think that's about the only way you'll be able to use the DECNA interface. Zane From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jan 3 17:22:49 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: Pro380 question In-Reply-To: <200201032302.g03N2Lk20204@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200201032302.g03N2Lk20204@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >You've got a DECNA for it? Wow! Lucky bum! Nice machine, thanks to Tim Shoppa! It includes an RX50, RD-52A, the DECNA, TMS, the 4-port serial board and a VR201. It's housed in the floor standing tower case. >I'd say your best choice for an OS would be RT-11 with the free TCP/IP >stack. In fact I think that's about the only way you'll be able to use the >DECNA interface. The DECNA isn't too useful outside of a DECnet then? Does RT-11 support the RD-52? I know that the docs for Venix state that there's a problem with using Venix and the RD-52 together. How hard is it to get the RX-50 disks of RT-11 and to straighten out all the licensing issues? Thanks Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1360.monmouth.com Thu Jan 3 18:53:41 2002 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1360.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: Pro380 question In-Reply-To: <200201032302.g03N2Lk20204@shell1.aracnet.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at "Jan 3, 2002 03:02:21 pm" Message-ID: <200201040053.g040rfv61259@bg-tc-ppp1360.monmouth.com> > > Since I've got a nice Pro380 with a few options, such as the > > decna adapter, what would be the most flexible setup for this > > machine? I'd really like to work with this machine but am not too > > impressed with POS. > > > > Jeff > > You've got a DECNA for it? Wow! Lucky bum! > > I'd say your best choice for an OS would be RT-11 with the free TCP/IP > stack. In fact I think that's about the only way you'll be able to use the > DECNA interface. > > Zane I don't know if the BSD 2.9 for the Pro supports it. Check out The Unix Heritage Society... I know there's a 2.9 BSD for Pro 350's. Pro380's should be even better. Bill -- d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jan 3 19:52:54 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: Pro380 question In-Reply-To: <200201040053.g040rfv61259@bg-tc-ppp1360.monmouth.com> References: <200201040053.g040rfv61259@bg-tc-ppp1360.monmouth.com> Message-ID: >I don't know if the BSD 2.9 for the Pro supports it. > >Check out The Unix Heritage Society... I know there's a 2.9 >BSD for Pro 350's. > >Pro380's should be even better. When I found references to 2.9BSD on the 350 a few months ago there was no mention of it working on the 380. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jan 3 19:09:24 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: Pro380 question In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Jan 03, 2002 06:22:49 PM Message-ID: <200201040109.g0419PU27939@shell1.aracnet.com> > The DECNA isn't too useful outside of a DECnet then? Does > RT-11 support the RD-52? I know that the docs for Venix state that > there's a problem with using Venix and the RD-52 together. How hard > is it to get the RX-50 disks of RT-11 and to straighten out all the > licensing issues? Can you get DECnet for POS? Good luck getting it for RT-11, and even if you do, I don't know if it would support the DECNA. RT-11 shouldn't have any problem with RD52's. As for the RX50's of RT-11 and licensing issues, that's the tricky part. You probably don't want to know what a license costs. Zane From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jan 3 19:51:47 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: Pro380 question In-Reply-To: <200201040109.g0419PU27939@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200201040109.g0419PU27939@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >Can you get DECnet for POS? Good luck getting it for RT-11, and even if you >do, I don't know if it would support the DECNA. RT-11 shouldn't have any >problem with RD52's. The 'Pro/DECnet Tool Kit Programmer's Reference Manual' dated November 1985 has a diagram showing both Pro350 and Pro380 machines (both using the DECNA) connected to a VAX 11/780 and VAX 11/730 (both using the DEUNA) over ethernet. I've not found anything in any of the documentation which states which operating system it referenced though. >As for the RX50's of RT-11 and licensing issues, that's the tricky part. >You probably don't want to know what a license costs. That's what I figured. It sounds like the Pro will be like my MicroVAX then and retain whatever OS it currently has loaded just because it's the only thing I have. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From dmabry at mich.com Thu Jan 3 19:16:09 2002 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: Intel iPDS Archives accomplished Message-ID: <3C350259.7739AA09@mich.com> Well, I just wanted to thank you all for suggesting Teledisk and prodding me into setting up a system that will let me archive my iPDS (Intel Personal Development System) diskettes. As background, this computer uses a 96tpi, double sided 5.25" diskette drive. That amounts to approximately 640k of storage, without my calculating it exactly. Teledisk 2.12 works on that format using a 1.2M HD drive, and it seems to work perfectly. I made a system diskette image and recreated a workable diskette from the image. For me, finding a system with a 5.25" drive was the challenge. I realized in this process that I didn't have any at my house, but I had several old Zenith SupersPort, SupersPort 286, and SupersPort SX laptops. They can access an external drive and I had some Zenith external drives. Unfortunately Zenith never marketed anything but a 48tpi (360k Bytes) drive. Tonight I was able to figure out the jumpering for that drive and put a 1.2M HD drive into that package and make it work with Teledisk. In a former life I had used Teledisk and forgotten how useful it was. Anyway, the point of this post is to offer anyone who would like them images of system diskettes for the Intel iPDS. I have CP/M 2.2 straight from Intel, CP/M 2.2 with my enhanced BIOS, ISIS-PDS (Intel's operating system), and many ISIS applications (like the EPROM software, IPPS). I would be happy to e-mail anyone the Teledisk images from anything that I have for that machine. Just ask me privately for what you'd like. I think I even have a CP/M Plus that I implemented for that system. All you would need is Teledisk and a system with a 1.2M HD drive to recreate bootable diskettes for the iPDS. And to Sellam, I know I told you I'd mail you diskettes. This is to ask if you'd prefer images. You'll get them faster. ;-) -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jan 3 23:43:35 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: MCA SCSI 11H3600 References: <200201030426.g034QKi00705@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3C354107.1ED65E5A@internet1.net> If it an RS6K card, I may be able to trade you, assuming this is the Fast Wide SCSI2 controller. I have one that I assume is a PS/2 card. I don't really know a way to check it, However. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Eric Dittman wrote: > If this is indeed the RS/6000 version, I won't need it and would be > willing to trade for a PS/2 SCSI card (or maybe some other MCA card). > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jan 4 00:27:41 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: MCA SCSI 11H3600 In-Reply-To: <3C354107.1ED65E5A@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Jan 04, 2002 12:43:35 AM Message-ID: <200201040627.g046Rfi04651@narnia.int.dittman.net> > If it an RS6K card, I may be able to trade you, assuming this is the > Fast Wide SCSI2 controller. I have one that I assume is a PS/2 card. I > don't really know a way to check it, However. The connectors have 68 connections, but instead of being a standard SCSI connector the connectors are what I've seen called "mini Honda", but I don't know if that's the correct name for them or not. The only references I've seen call it a SCSI card, though. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Thu Jan 3 23:54:38 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: PS/2 Model 70 Message-ID: <200201040554.g045scB04588@narnia.int.dittman.net> I found a couple of 2MB PS/2 SIMMs that I had stashed away and put them in my PS/2 Model 70, so I now have 8MB of RAM. I haven't cracked the password on the Xenix386 installation, but thought from the discussion that OS/2 would be a better operating system to play with anyway. I have OS/2 2.1. Would that be a good choice? If so, is there a way to make floppies from the installation CD? I haven't messed with OS/2 for a long time. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jan 4 00:28:42 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: PS/2 Model 70 Message-ID: <200201040628.g046Sgl04659@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I found a couple of 2MB PS/2 SIMMs that I had stashed away and > put them in my PS/2 Model 70, so I now have 8MB of RAM. I haven't > cracked the password on the Xenix386 installation, but thought from > the discussion that OS/2 would be a better operating system to play > with anyway. I have OS/2 2.1. Would that be a good choice? If so, > is there a way to make floppies from the installation CD? I haven't > messed with OS/2 for a long time. Well, scratch the idea of OS/2; my CD has a big scratch in it and is unreadable. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Fri Jan 4 07:50:42 2002 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: PS/2 Model 70 Message-ID: > >Well, scratch the idea of OS/2; my CD has a big scratch in it and is >unreadable. >-- >Eric Dittman In some cases it's possible to remove the scratch by polishing the CD. I've taken badly scratched CD's and removed the scratches with a buffing wheel, jewelers rouge, and a little patience. Just be careful not too overheat the CD or it may warp. The ones that I've done came out paper thin but, were readable. SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jan 4 08:17:46 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: PS/2 Model 70 In-Reply-To: from "Steve Robertson" at Jan 04, 2002 08:50:42 AM Message-ID: <200201041417.g04EHkd05921@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >Well, scratch the idea of OS/2; my CD has a big scratch in it and is > >unreadable. > > In some cases it's possible to remove the scratch by polishing the CD. I've > taken badly scratched CD's and removed the scratches with a buffing wheel, > jewelers rouge, and a little patience. Just be careful not too overheat the > CD or it may warp. This is a real bad scratch, wide and deep. There's too much missing, unfortunately. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From rhblakeman at kih.net Fri Jan 4 09:24:32 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: PS/2 Model 70 In-Reply-To: <200201040554.g045scB04588@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: The 70 with 8mb will run DOS up to 6.22 and also Windows up to 3.11 really nice, as well as Windows 95 up to OSR2.5 but a little slower than the DOS/Win setup. It should have a 386DX in it, you may also want to look into a 386DX to 486 upgrade chip and then run almost anything. I've cleared OS/2 off many of the PS/2 machines I've bought and it runs great on them, in the 386 class. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Eric Dittman Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 11:55 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: PS/2 Model 70 I found a couple of 2MB PS/2 SIMMs that I had stashed away and put them in my PS/2 Model 70, so I now have 8MB of RAM. I haven't cracked the password on the Xenix386 installation, but thought from the discussion that OS/2 would be a better operating system to play with anyway. I have OS/2 2.1. Would that be a good choice? If so, is there a way to make floppies from the installation CD? I haven't messed with OS/2 for a long time. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From pechter at bg-tc-ppp438.monmouth.com Fri Jan 4 09:33:53 2002 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp438.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: PS/2 Model 70 In-Reply-To: <200201040554.g045scB04588@narnia.int.dittman.net> from Eric Dittman at "Jan 3, 2002 11:54:38 pm" Message-ID: <200201041533.g04FXrj90707@bg-tc-ppp438.monmouth.com> > I found a couple of 2MB PS/2 SIMMs that I had stashed away and > put them in my PS/2 Model 70, so I now have 8MB of RAM. I haven't > cracked the password on the Xenix386 installation, but thought from > the discussion that OS/2 would be a better operating system to play > with anyway. I have OS/2 2.1. Would that be a good choice? If so, > is there a way to make floppies from the installation CD? I haven't > messed with OS/2 for a long time. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ Yup you can make floppies from the install CD and os2 2.1.x was the standard at IBM on their Model 70 and 80 boxes when I worked there. They were going to Warp which really shines with more than 16mb of memory if you're using networking. At 12 my 486/66 was sluggish. Bill -- d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Fri Jan 4 10:49:15 2002 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: PS/2 Model 70 In-Reply-To: <200201040554.g045scB04588@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020104114609.00ad0820@pop3.norton.antivirus> I have the following on consignment (I need to get $8 plus shipping on each set). IBM OS/2 2.1 Installation Disks on 5-1/4 IBM OS/2 2.0 3-1/2 disks - req DOS or OS/2 IBM OS/2 2.0 om 2mb diskettes At 11:54 PM 1/3/02 -0600, you wrote: >I found a couple of 2MB PS/2 SIMMs that I had stashed away and >put them in my PS/2 Model 70, so I now have 8MB of RAM. I haven't >cracked the password on the Xenix386 installation, but thought from >the discussion that OS/2 would be a better operating system to play >with anyway. I have OS/2 2.1. Would that be a good choice? If so, >is there a way to make floppies from the installation CD? I haven't >messed with OS/2 for a long time. >-- >Eric Dittman >dittman@dittman.net >Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ ================================= Gene Ehrich gene@ehrich.com gehrich@tampabay.rr.com From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jan 4 12:15:43 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: PS/2 Model 70 In-Reply-To: <200201040554.g045scB04588@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > I found a couple of 2MB PS/2 SIMMs that I had stashed away and > put them in my PS/2 Model 70, so I now have 8MB of RAM. I haven't > cracked the password on the Xenix386 installation, but thought from > the discussion that OS/2 would be a better operating system to play > with anyway. I have OS/2 2.1. Would that be a good choice? If so, > is there a way to make floppies from the installation CD? I haven't > messed with OS/2 for a long time. I would go with a newer version of OS/2, because they tend to be a bit slimmer than the older versions. Granted, this statement doesn't apply to versions < 2.0. Peace... Sridhar From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jan 4 11:28:36 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: PS/2 Model 70 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02Jan4.134416est.119201@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >I would go with a newer version of OS/2, because they tend to be a bit >slimmer than the older versions. Granted, this statement doesn't apply to >versions < 2.0. Warp Connect seems to work fine on my 8573-121 in just 8MB of RAM on the planar. I used to use 2.1 For Windows as my main system when I had a 486DLC and it ran ok as well. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Jan 4 15:28:54 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: PS/2's and other 286's.... In-Reply-To: <02Jan4.134416est.119201@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> References: < Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020104132716.04741e60@mail.zipcon.net> Hey! I just discovered that I have a Kingston SLC/NOW, it's a 486SLC2/50 processor upgrade daughterboard for 286 based systems. it has a Cyrix FasMath CX387SX-25 mathco on it also. If anyone has use for it, it's yours for shipping costs. From mhstein at usa.net Fri Jan 4 01:05:50 2002 From: mhstein at usa.net (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: PET music (Was: hmm, don't remember what the thread was originally :) Message-ID: <01C194C7.52CAA6E0@mse-d03> Not sure what you're looking for here, hardware or software? Seems to me any S/W not using CB2 would require _some_ kind of special hardware, however trivial. At least 2 come to mind, the Petunia, and the MTU 4 voice/16 harmonics systems for both PETs and KIM/SYM/AIMs; is one of these what you're thinking of? The cheap & dirty method was just a resistor ladder across the parallel interface as a D/A converter; might still have one of these & some S/W, but don't hold your breath, haven't looked at the CBM pile in ages. Hmmm... just ran across an old ad for an accounting package for a KIM/SYM; wouldn't you have enjoyed being the data entry operator for that? Think I'd prefer even a Windows package... -------------Original Message---------------- From: Ethan Dicks ObClassic: Does anyone have any software for making music on the PET with *other* than CB2 sound? I had a buddy with a clip-on user port music card - it was an 8-bit D-to-A like a Disney Sound Source. The PET shoved bytes out the user port and they appoximated music. I can't remember what it was called. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 4 17:03:23 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: PET music (Was: hmm, don't remember what the thread was originally :) In-Reply-To: <01C194C7.52CAA6E0@mse-d03> Message-ID: <20020104230323.18036.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> --- M H Stein wrote: > Not sure what you're looking for here, hardware or software? Software. I can reconstruct the hardware I think. > Seems to me any S/W not using CB2 would require _some_ kind of special > hardware, however trivial. Yes. A connector, 8 resistors and a jack. > At least 2 come to mind, the Petunia, and the MTU 4 voice/16 harmonics > systems for > both PETs and KIM/SYM/AIMs; is one of these what you're thinking of? I don't recall. If I saw a picture of the original for the PET, I'd recognize it. > The cheap & dirty method was just a resistor ladder across the parallel > interface as a D/A converter; might still have one of these & some S/W, > but don't hold your breath, haven't looked at the CBM pile in ages. That is exactly what I was mentioning below. > Hmmm... just ran across an old ad for an accounting package for a > KIM/SYM; wouldn't you > have enjoyed being the data entry operator for that? Think I'd prefer > even a Windows > package... Eeeww. -ethan > -------------Original Message---------------- > From: Ethan Dicks > > > ObClassic: Does anyone have any software for making music on the PET > with *other* than CB2 sound? I had a buddy with a clip-on user port > music card - it was an 8-bit D-to-A like a Disney Sound Source. The > PET shoved bytes out the user port and they appoximated music. I can't > remember what it was called. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From GOOI at oce.nl Fri Jan 4 02:41:47 2002 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: 11/53 - Qbus backplane question Message-ID: I got in the 11/53 running Micro/RSX. The 11/53 has an H9278-A backplane. According to Megan's fieldguide the first 3 slots are Q22/CD and the last 5 slots are Q22. What does that mean? At this moment, this is the configuration: slot 1 rows 1-4: M7554-02 - 11/53-PLUS CPU slot 2 rows 1-2: M3106 - 4-line async EIA MUX slot 3 rows 1-2: M7546 - controller for TK50 slot 4 rows 1-2: M7555 - RQDX3 rows 3-4: ??? All other slots and not mentioned row positions are empty. In slot 4 rows 3-4 is a card with just one 8-pos DIP switch three 16-pin DIL resistor chips and some decoupling caps. At the top are two BERG connectors, one 40 pin and one 50 pin. These two flatcables connected to an external unit, brandname Dynafive. Inside that box are several "Dynafive" boards and one board of "VGScientific". The rear of the box has several BNC connectors with markings that pops 'video' stuff to mind. Like H-sync, Green-in, Red-in, Green-out, etc. This box and the 11/53 were connected to eachother. On the disk in the 11/53 I found .RNO files that describe the VGS5000 and how to use the application (something with spectral analysis). So far for the system description. Now my question. 1) Can I remove that ??? card 2) Put a DELQA or DECNA at the same position? I seem to remember that the RQDX3 must be the last device in the backplane for some reason. So, should the Ethernet card go in slot 4 rows 1-2 and should I move the RQDX3 to slot 4 rows 3-4? TIA, - Henk From quapla at xs4all.nl Fri Jan 4 03:31:32 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: 11/53 - Qbus backplane question References: Message-ID: <3C357674.7E57D519@xs4all.nl> Henk, The 'C/D' slots are special ones and are only usable for memory when using the PMI (Private Memory Interconnect) interface. This allows faster access to the memory compared to the QBus itself. The A/B slots are regular ones, so any dual type card can be used here. Usually, slot 2 is occupied by a memory board, the 3rd slot can of course be any type of device. You can remove the graphics interface board and replace it with a DELQUA or a DECNA. Te RQDX3 can indeed be the last card in the line, the 'last card' limit was only a problem for the earlier ones AFAIK. You might move the RQDX3 to slot 4 row 3-4 and put the network card in row 1-2 Just try it out. Ed Gooijen H wrote: > > I got in the 11/53 running Micro/RSX. > > The 11/53 has an H9278-A backplane. According to > Megan's fieldguide the first 3 slots are Q22/CD > and the last 5 slots are Q22. > What does that mean? > > At this moment, this is the configuration: > slot 1 rows 1-4: M7554-02 - 11/53-PLUS CPU > slot 2 rows 1-2: M3106 - 4-line async EIA MUX > slot 3 rows 1-2: M7546 - controller for TK50 > slot 4 rows 1-2: M7555 - RQDX3 > rows 3-4: ??? > All other slots and not mentioned row positions are empty. > > In slot 4 rows 3-4 is a card with just one 8-pos DIP switch > three 16-pin DIL resistor chips and some decoupling caps. > At the top are two BERG connectors, one 40 pin and one 50 pin. > These two flatcables connected to an external unit, brandname > Dynafive. Inside that box are several "Dynafive" boards and > one board of "VGScientific". The rear of the box has several > BNC connectors with markings that pops 'video' stuff to mind. > Like H-sync, Green-in, Red-in, Green-out, etc. > This box and the 11/53 were connected to eachother. On the > disk in the 11/53 I found .RNO files that describe the VGS5000 > and how to use the application (something with spectral analysis). > So far for the system description. > Now my question. > 1) Can I remove that ??? card > 2) Put a DELQA or DECNA at the same position? > > I seem to remember that the RQDX3 must be the last device in > the backplane for some reason. > So, should the Ethernet card go in slot 4 rows 1-2 and should I > move the RQDX3 to slot 4 rows 3-4? > > TIA, > > - Henk -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Kilometerheffing : De overheid '97 TL1000S | weet waar je bent geweest! From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Fri Jan 4 03:42:33 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: 11/53 - Qbus backplane question Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0219DB@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Gooijen H [mailto:GOOI@oce.nl] > Sent: 04 January 2002 08:42 > To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' > Subject: 11/53 - Qbus backplane question > > > I got in the 11/53 running Micro/RSX. > > The 11/53 has an H9278-A backplane. According to > Megan's fieldguide the first 3 slots are Q22/CD > and the last 5 slots are Q22. > What does that mean? If I remember rightly the CD slots have grant continuity, which means you can have half height boards in position 1/2 without needing grant continuity cards in position 3/4 to carry signals over to the next slot. Can't rememember the M code for the GC card ATM; my VAXen are 10 minutes away from here. -- Adrian Graham, Corporate Microsystems Ltd e: adrian.graham@corporatemicrosystems.com w: www.corporatemicrosystems.com w2: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Online Computer Museum) From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 4 09:47:26 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:08 2005 Subject: 11/53 - Qbus backplane question In-Reply-To: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0219DB@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> Message-ID: <20020104154726.92358.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> --- Adrian Graham wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gooijen H [mailto:GOOI@oce.nl] > > Sent: 04 January 2002 08:42 > > To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' > > Subject: 11/53 - Qbus backplane question > > > > > > I got in the 11/53 running Micro/RSX. > > > > The 11/53 has an H9278-A backplane. According to > > Megan's fieldguide the first 3 slots are Q22/CD > > and the last 5 slots are Q22. > > What does that mean? > > If I remember rightly the CD slots have grant continuity, which means you > can have half height boards in position 1/2 without needing grant > continuity cards in position 3/4 to carry signals over to the next slot. Not exactly. Right consequence, wrong cause. Q22 slots are where you put your CPU, peripherals, etc. If you have Qbus memory, it's where you put your memory cards. Empty slots between the CPU (first card) and the last card must have a bus grant in them or the devices behind the gap won't be detected when they make an interrupt. You can put cards that do not interrupt all the way at the back with multiple gaps and no harm done. Think of it like a bucket-brigade when someone steps out of line - there's no path from the back to the front. CD slots are special. They are wired up so the bottom face of one card is connected to the top face of the next card. Prior to the Qbus, when DEC made a multiple-card peripheral (RK8E, for example), there were H851 connector blocks to provide interconnection. This was not an ideal solution, especially given the risks that a customer might install a card upside down if it had 4 backplane fingers on each end and no handle. The first peripheral I worked with that required a CD backplane was the RLV11 - two cards, one always above the other (so they were properly interconnected) and no external interconnect was required (H851, ribbon cable, etc.) In more modern boxes, BA-23, for example, they have Q22/CD for the first three slots either for the CPU (uVAX-I) or the CPU and memory (uVAX-II, etc.) since late-model Qbus CPUs have PMI memory (Private Memory Inter- connect) and do not sit on the Qbus. CD slots never require grant cards. Personally, I have a bunch of 11/23-era (KDF-11) stuff, including a few BA-11N boxes - 9 Qbus slots next to 9 CD slots. It's handy because back when I got this stuff, an RLV11 was $100 and an RLV12 was $900 (since it worked in MicroVAXen, etc). By the time the KDA-50 was created, CD slots were no longer the answer and there's a ribbon cable to connect the two boards. Hope this clarifies the issue. CD slots don't require a grant card, but that's because they are outside the grant chain. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Fri Jan 4 03:47:27 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: 11/53 - Qbus backplane question Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662DD@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> Gooijen H wrote: >The 11/53 has an H9278-A backplane. According to >Megan's fieldguide the first 3 slots are Q22/CD >and the last 5 slots are Q22. >What does that mean? The slots each allow for four "fingers" on each card - a quad card uses all four and a dual card uses only two (there are some single cards too, but not many). The holes on the backplane slot for the fingers are labelled A,B,C,D from left to right from the side the cards plug into. Q22/CD slots have A/B wired as Q22 bus, C&D are just wired straight through. C/D are not used for Q-bus comms and are just for card-card communication. Q22/Q22 slots have Qbus on A&B and Qbus on C&D. It sounds like in your machine, the path followed by the Qbus is: slot-1: A/B slot-2: A/B slot-3: A/B slot-4: A/B slot-4: C/D slot-5: C/D slot-5: A/B slot-6: A/B etc. i.e. Qbus goes down A/B in slots 1,2,3,4 and then hops over to C/D on slot 4, drops vertically down to slot-5 C/D, moves back to slot-5 A/B ... repeat until you run out of slots. The manuals refer to this as a serpentine pattern. There is a diagram in some of the MicroVAX manuals on http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm (I cannot remember exactly which ones but if you pick up the 630Z Owner's and Technical manuals, I'm 90% certain one of them has the diagram ... note that BA23 has 3 Q22/CD slots and BA123 has four Q22/CD slots ... the principle is the same though). The Q22/CD distinction matters in two cases that spring to mind. The first is that some Qbus signals need to be passed on to the next card correctly (interrupt and grant signals). An empty slot breaks the chain here. So if your first three slots have processor + memory and you put a TQK50 controller in slot 4 (A/B) and an RQDX3 in slot 5 (A/B), the chain is broken because slot 4 C/D and slot 5 C/D are empty - you need grant cards (or other Qbus cards) in there to let the RQDX3 work. Just to make this more fun, the RQDX3 will show up on the bus (it's CSRs are visible) it just won't work :-) The other reason it matters is that quad wide cards need to do the right thing depending on the kind of slot they are in. Most seem to arrive defaulted for a Q22/Q22 slot (which means they can go straight into a BA23/BA123 chassis with no additional jumpering etc). Putting one of these in a Q22/CD slot is usually no problem except that the card is passing on the C/D signals to the next card. This may or may not matter. For those cases where it does matter, cards provide a means of preventing this from happening. On the KDA50 there is a zero-ohm link (looks liek a resistor) that you remove. Of course, if you move a modified KDA50 from a Q22/CD slot to a Q22/Q22 slot you are in for some fun :-) Later series chassis (certainly the BA200 series, probably the BA400 series) were wired Q22/CD throughout. >At this moment, this is the configuration: >slot 1 rows 1-4: M7554-02 - 11/53-PLUS CPU >slot 2 rows 1-2: M3106 - 4-line async EIA MUX >slot 3 rows 1-2: M7546 - controller for TK50 >slot 4 rows 1-2: M7555 - RQDX3 > rows 3-4: ??? >All other slots and not mentioned row positions are empty. >In slot 4 rows 3-4 is a card with just one 8-pos DIP switch >three 16-pin DIL resistor chips and some decoupling caps. >At the top are two BERG connectors, one 40 pin and one 50 pin. >These two flatcables connected to an external unit, brandname >Dynafive. Inside that box are several "Dynafive" boards and >one board of "VGScientific". The rear of the box has several >BNC connectors with markings that pops 'video' stuff to mind. >Like H-sync, Green-in, Red-in, Green-out, etc. >This box and the 11/53 were connected to eachother. On the >disk in the 11/53 I found .RNO files that describe the VGS5000 >and how to use the application (something with spectral analysis). >So far for the system description. Many years agon, on a PDP-11/23, we had an external box (about the same size as the 11/23 cab - including RL02 and RX01) which was just a frame buffer (i.e. video card). Your peripheral may well be similar (but this is just a guess based on the fact that it seems to have video connectors!) >1) Can I remove that ??? card I guess yes. Obviously you loose a really cool peripheral! >2) Put a DELQA or DECNA at the same position? You can put a DELQA there. You can put a DEQNA there (which is what I guess you meant). But a DECNA is (IIRC) the really *rare* ethernet card for the Pro 300 series of machines. It won't fit and you'd destroy a cool card if you put that there :-) >I seem to remember that the RQDX3 must be the last device in >the backplane for some reason. It doesn't *have* to be. The reasons for putting cards in a particular order is described in one (or more?) of the Micronotes that you can find on the web (e.g. http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware /micronotes/numerical/ ) Basically, the RQDX3 will hog the bus given half a chance, but has enough buffering not to mind yielding the bus to other peripherals (within reason). The nearer (electrically) you are to the CPU, the higher your priority. So the RQDX3 (and KDA50) traditionally go furthest from the CPU. >So, should the Ethernet card go in slot 4 rows 1-2 and should I >move the RQDX3 to slot 4 rows 3-4? That would be normal. It will probably work even if you don't move the RQDX3 though. It's worth mentioning that the RQDX*2*/RQDX*1* are brain-dead and do not pass on one of the signals (GRANT I think). This means that they *must* go at the end of the bus (nothing after them will ever be able to interrupt!) Antonio From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Fri Jan 4 03:07:39 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: DEC bus driver/receiver chips (really VT78 docs) Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662DC@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> David Gesswein wrote: >I plan to have this all done in 25 years so you should be all set :-). I'm OK with that timescale ! >If you know the UK people need a particular portion of it let me know. I >don't have the time to scan it all in the near term. Email me the >request directly, with the list traffic I might miss it. Actually I only know of one other in the UK, but I expect there are a few more lurking in dark corners. Antonio From CLeyson at aol.com Fri Jan 4 05:35:09 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3200SX Question Message-ID: <8d.11dff8e5.2966ed6d@aol.com> Just got myself a Toshiba T3200SX laptop. Reformatted the hard drive and put DOS 6.22 onto it. However, the CMOS backup battery has gone flat. Anybody know where the battery lives, and is it PCB mounted ? Best Regards Chris Leyson From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Jan 4 05:49:19 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3200SX Question In-Reply-To: <8d.11dff8e5.2966ed6d@aol.com> Message-ID: An FYI: www.acsparts.com had a ton of info on my Toshiba 420CDT, including service prints and tons o' spare parts, like CMOS batteries, main batts, MOBOs, etc etc. Cheers John From CLeyson at aol.com Fri Jan 4 13:14:09 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3200SX Question Message-ID: <157.6c1d72b.29675901@aol.com> Thanks for the advice. Found the battery, or rather what's left of it. Whatever it is that leaks or gasses out of Lithium batteries has eaten into most of the steelwork. I will have to replace the floppy drive and clean up metalwork. :-( Chris Leyson From Golemancd at aol.com Fri Jan 4 07:13:45 2002 From: Golemancd at aol.com (Golemancd@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English Message-ID: <34.207fe82c.29670489@aol.com> this may help i am 38 years old, so there is nothing about my typing style where i am trying to be cute. i collect any computer i can get my hands on. i am developing an operating system and a multimedia program to create movies. i use a newer computer to produce records. i am also working out, as i was talking about in the original thread that got off track, a distributed os to control robots and also a custom computer to do the same. i guess thats it. joee From at258 at osfn.org Fri Jan 4 09:04:22 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <34.207fe82c.29670489@aol.com> Message-ID: There's nothing wrong with any of that joee, and your last two posts have been fine, absent the capitalisation and punctuation which upsets some. On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 Golemancd@aol.com wrote: > this may help > i am 38 years old, so there is nothing about my typing style > where i am trying to be cute. > i collect any computer i can get my hands on. > i am developing an operating system and a multimedia program > to create movies. > i use a newer computer to produce records. > i am also working out, as i was talking about > in the original thread that got off track, a distributed > os to control robots and also a custom computer > to do the same. > > i guess thats it. > joee > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 09:44:24 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English References: <34.207fe82c.29670489@aol.com> Message-ID: <001801c19536$af89c9a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Gee ... judging from the net unwillingness to use normal "adult" punctuation, captitalization, etc, it does look as though you're doing it just to be "cute." I can't think of a single reason, otherwise, why one would one do that? When I was in the 8th grade, one of the courses we were required to take was in typing. I've never gotten particularly good at it, but I did learn that a period at the end of a sentence is followed by two spaces, for example. In about the first grade, I learned that the first letter in a sentence is customarily capitalized. Why? I don't know, but it appears to be the custom. As a consequence, the absence of these basic features makes one's writing harder to read. The odd-length lines of text don't help readability, either. It's also customary to insert a blank line between paragraphs. That, surely, is to enhance readability. If you want people to read your stuff, you've got to make it easy for them. If you insist on writing in a style reminiscent of E. E. Cummings poetry, you may find that your messages are read by readers of this forum with about the same frequency as E.E. Cummings' work, which might be a shame, in case you really do have something significant to contribute. or in case I'm the only one who doesn't read much Cummings. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:13 AM Subject: Re: Language and English > this may help > i am 38 years old, so there is nothing about my typing style > where i am trying to be cute. > i collect any computer i can get my hands on. > i am developing an operating system and a multimedia program > to create movies. > i use a newer computer to produce records. > i am also working out, as i was talking about > in the original thread that got off track, a distributed > os to control robots and also a custom computer > to do the same. > > i guess thats it. > joee > > From dtwright at uiuc.edu Fri Jan 4 10:42:21 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <001801c19536$af89c9a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>; from edick@idcomm.com on Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 08:44:24AM -0700 References: <34.207fe82c.29670489@aol.com> <001801c19536$af89c9a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20020104104221.B890971@uiuc.edu> Damn, people, do you think we could give this a rest already? If it bugs you to read shit that's, well, hard to read, just use the "delete" button. That's what I do. For god's sake, I majored in English, and I seem to be less worried about it then many others on this list ;-) Richard Erlacher said: > Gee ... judging from the net unwillingness to use normal "adult" > punctuation, captitalization, etc, it does look as though you're doing it > just to be "cute." I can't think of a single reason, otherwise, why one > would one do that? > > When I was in the 8th grade, one of the courses we were required to take was > in typing. I've never gotten particularly good at it, but I did learn that > a period at the end of a sentence is followed by two spaces, for example. > In about the first grade, I learned that the first letter in a sentence is > customarily capitalized. Why? I don't know, but it appears to be the > custom. As a consequence, the absence of these basic features makes one's > writing harder to read. The odd-length lines of text don't help > readability, either. It's also customary to insert a blank line between > paragraphs. That, surely, is to enhance readability. If you want people to > read your stuff, you've got to make it easy for them. > > If you insist on writing in a style reminiscent of E. E. Cummings poetry, > you may find that your messages are read by readers of this forum with about > the same frequency as E.E. Cummings' work, which might be a shame, in case > you really do have something significant to contribute. or in case I'm the > only one who doesn't read much Cummings. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:13 AM > Subject: Re: Language and English > > > > this may help > > i am 38 years old, so there is nothing about my typing style > > where i am trying to be cute. > > i collect any computer i can get my hands on. > > i am developing an operating system and a multimedia program > > to create movies. > > i use a newer computer to produce records. > > i am also working out, as i was talking about > > in the original thread that got off track, a distributed > > os to control robots and also a custom computer > > to do the same. > > > > i guess thats it. > > joee > > > > - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 229 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020104/345bc2b2/attachment.bin From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 11:22:06 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English References: <34.207fe82c.29670489@aol.com> <001801c19536$af89c9a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <20020104104221.B890971@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <001301c19544$55517100$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It's never safe to open an attachment to an otherwise undefined email. I'd suspect only two or three on this list will be foolish enough to open this one. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Wright" To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 9:42 AM Subject: Re: Language and English From dtwright at uiuc.edu Fri Jan 4 11:45:52 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <001301c19544$55517100$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>; from edick@idcomm.com on Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 10:22:06AM -0700 References: <34.207fe82c.29670489@aol.com> <001801c19536$af89c9a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <20020104104221.B890971@uiuc.edu> <001301c19544$55517100$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20020104114552.F890971@uiuc.edu> it's a PGP signature. Your're using outlook, which while brain-dead, should be able to tell you that...I believe it's identified with the MIME type "application/pgp-signature", which seems pretty self-explanitory. and if you don't know what it is, don't open it. I wouldn't expect anything else, really... Richard Erlacher said: > It's never safe to open an attachment to an otherwise undefined email. > > I'd suspect only two or three on this list will be foolish enough to open > this one. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Wright" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 9:42 AM > Subject: Re: Language and English > > - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 229 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020104/f542e61e/attachment.bin From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 12:12:34 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English References: <34.207fe82c.29670489@aol.com> <001801c19536$af89c9a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <20020104104221.B890971@uiuc.edu> <001301c19544$55517100$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <20020104114552.F890971@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <004b01c1954b$6288c1a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yup! Here's another one ... a blank message with an attachment. Of course I won't open it ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Wright" To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 10:45 AM Subject: Re: Language and English From dtwright at uiuc.edu Fri Jan 4 13:33:24 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <004b01c1954b$6288c1a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>; from edick@idcomm.com on Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 11:12:34AM -0700 References: <34.207fe82c.29670489@aol.com> <001801c19536$af89c9a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <20020104104221.B890971@uiuc.edu> <001301c19544$55517100$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <20020104114552.F890971@uiuc.edu> <004b01c1954b$6288c1a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20020104133324.G890971@uiuc.edu> jeez! ok, if it's causing such problems, i'll tell my mailer to stop attaching my signature if i'm sending from this mailbox... hope that helps... Richard Erlacher said: > Yup! Here's another one ... a blank message with an attachment. > > Of course I won't open it ... > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Wright" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 10:45 AM > Subject: Re: Language and English > > - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 4 14:36:48 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <20020104133324.G890971@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Dan Wright wrote: > jeez! ok, if it's causing such problems, i'll tell my mailer to stop > attaching my signature if i'm sending from this mailbox... hope that helps... If my opinion matters, I don't think you should do that. GPG and PGP are under attack by the US law enforcement agencies, and need all the visible support possible. The signature is one of the very few common email attachments with any intelligent value. It is small, and doesn't seriously impact the bandwidth-limited connection. It is very easily identified, and if the recipient is all that concerned, easily verified as well. I vote leave it there. As soon as I win this argument with Pine, mine will be back on. Doc From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 15:06:13 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English References: <34.207fe82c.29670489@aol.com> <001801c19536$af89c9a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <20020104104221.B890971@uiuc.edu> <001301c19544$55517100$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <20020104114552.F890971@uiuc.edu> <004b01c1954b$6288c1a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <20020104133324.G890971@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <001d01c19563$a4c29100$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I got a message this time. Apparently your mailer doesn't do what you think it does. If you figure omitting your message is not a problem, then why post it? I don't know what your mailer's documents tell you it does, but I've seen this before, and it doesn't just put the signature in the attachment, but, rather, puts the entire message in it, so one gets an empty message with a pair of attachments, one of which is the message as a .txt file and the other of which is a .dat file, albeit not what Windows, if that matters, expects to find in a .dat file, which is a music file of some sort, since it brings up the media player to process it. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Wright" To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 12:33 PM Subject: Re: Language and English > jeez! ok, if it's causing such problems, i'll tell my mailer to stop > attaching my signature if i'm sending from this mailbox... hope that helps... > > Richard Erlacher said: > > Yup! Here's another one ... a blank message with an attachment. > > > > Of course I won't open it ... > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dan Wright" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 10:45 AM > > Subject: Re: Language and English > > > > > - Dan Wright > (dtwright@uiuc.edu) > (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) > > -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- > ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, > For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' > Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 4 18:21:23 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: "Richard Erlacher" "Re: Language and English" (Jan 4, 11:12) References: <34.207fe82c.29670489@aol.com> <001801c19536$af89c9a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <20020104104221.B890971@uiuc.edu> <001301c19544$55517100$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <20020104114552.F890971@uiuc.edu> <004b01c1954b$6288c1a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <10201050021.ZM17775@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 4, 11:12, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Yup! Here's another one ... a blank message with an attachment. > > Of course I won't open it ... Somewhere on your system will be a file called mime.types or some equivalent. That's what your mail program uses to determine what type the attachment is. You need to update it. If you're lucky, you also have a mailcap file somewhere that tells your mailer how to handle it -- telling it to treat it as plain text (or better still, the way it handles multipart/alternative will possibly work) is both safe and useful (in that you'll be able to read it). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From donm at cts.com Fri Jan 4 15:50:47 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <20020104104221.B890971@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Dan Wright wrote: > Damn, people, do you think we could give this a rest already? If it bugs you > to read shit that's, well, hard to read, just use the "delete" button. That's > what I do. For god's sake, I majored in English, and I seem to be less > worried about it then many others on this list ;-) In my freshman year at the University of Michigan in the early postwar years I took a semester course in English taught by an instructor who acknowledged he could not spell and stated to the class that he "didn't think it was important". Seems likely he was one of the early advocates that started us on the downhill road to where we are now. - don From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 4 11:05:43 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <001801c19536$af89c9a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > When I was in the 8th grade, one of the courses we were required to take was > in typing. I've never gotten particularly good at it, but I did learn that > a period at the end of a sentence is followed by two spaces, for example. Wow. I really _do_ learn something new every day. Cool. (Never took typing, and, in fact, make do with the left index finger.) > If you insist on writing in a style reminiscent of E. E. Cummings poetry, > you may find that your messages are read by readers of this forum with about > the same frequency as E.E. Cummings' work, which might be a shame, in case > you really do have something significant to contribute. or in case I'm the > only one who doesn't read much Cummings. Nah, I like ee cummings. And not to nitpick, but your rendering of his name is incorrect. I do detest the fact that the owners of the copyrights to his work systematically search the web for quotes of his poetry, and complain and/or sue. That is, however, a whole other thread. cummings' poetry is entirely without capitalization, and mostly without punctuation, but he used line placement and his phrasing to pull the reader *gracefully* through a poem. Assuming, naturally, that you enjoy his work. I submit that as an advanced literary skill, rather than a lack of training. I submit further that none of the mortals on the classiccmp list have evolved to that literary level. I also don't think that an objection to intentionally poor communication is snobbery. I don't smoke, and I don't allow smoking in my house. It is a matter of preserving a healthy, comfortable environment. While I don't flatter myself that this is "my" list, I joined it because the virtual environment is comfortable. Before anyone asks, "Yes." The arguments and the general codger factor were/are a large part of the draw. Technical flame wars are the WWF of the modern bit-nibbling crowd. Doc From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 13:09:39 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English References: Message-ID: <00af01c19553$5db8c960$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well ... I said I didn't read his work much ... I do seem to remember though ... never a capital, not even in his name ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc" To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 10:05 AM Subject: Re: Language and English > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > When I was in the 8th grade, one of the courses we were required to take was > > in typing. I've never gotten particularly good at it, but I did learn that > > a period at the end of a sentence is followed by two spaces, for example. > > Wow. I really _do_ learn something new every day. Cool. (Never took > typing, and, in fact, make do with the left index finger.) > > > If you insist on writing in a style reminiscent of E. E. Cummings poetry, > > you may find that your messages are read by readers of this forum with about > > the same frequency as E.E. Cummings' work, which might be a shame, in case > > you really do have something significant to contribute. or in case I'm the > > only one who doesn't read much Cummings. > > Nah, I like ee cummings. And not to nitpick, but your rendering of > his name is incorrect. I do detest the fact that the owners of the > copyrights to his work systematically search the web for quotes of his > poetry, and complain and/or sue. That is, however, a whole other > thread. > > cummings' poetry is entirely without capitalization, and mostly > without punctuation, but he used line placement and his phrasing to > pull the reader *gracefully* through a poem. Assuming, naturally, that > you enjoy his work. I submit that as an advanced literary skill, > rather than a lack of training. > > I submit further that none of the mortals on the classiccmp list have > evolved to that literary level. > > I also don't think that an objection to intentionally poor > communication is snobbery. I don't smoke, and I don't allow smoking in > my house. It is a matter of preserving a healthy, comfortable > environment. While I don't flatter myself that this is "my" list, I > joined it because the virtual environment is comfortable. > > Before anyone asks, "Yes." The arguments and the general codger > factor were/are a large part of the draw. Technical flame wars are the > WWF of the modern bit-nibbling crowd. > > Doc > > From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 4 11:06:28 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English References: <34.207fe82c.29670489@aol.com> <001801c19536$af89c9a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3C35E114.5496BA1A@verizon.net> Hello Dick, I get the impression, which may not be correct, that you may be retired, because of the greater amount of time that you are able to devote to reading and responding to newsgroup messages. If this is so, that would mean you encountered an educational system at a previous date in time that may have been more formal than that which I encountered. Question. Did you ever study Latin? Was Latin offered in your school system? It was not offered in mine, but since I recently have been in contact with people in France, Italy, Germany, and Spain, I believe having studied the root language of all the "romance" languages would have proven helpful now. I'll bet that when Latin no longer became a requirement in many educational programs, there was more than one that must have felt that that was a sign of deteriorating standards. Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Gee ... judging from the net unwillingness to use normal "adult" > punctuation, captitalization, etc, it does look as though you're doing it > just to be "cute." I can't think of a single reason, otherwise, why one > would one do that? > > When I was in the 8th grade, one of the courses we were required to take was > in typing. I've never gotten particularly good at it, but I did learn that > a period at the end of a sentence is followed by two spaces, for example. > In about the first grade, I learned that the first letter in a sentence is > customarily capitalized. Why? I don't know, but it appears to be the > custom. As a consequence, the absence of these basic features makes one's > writing harder to read. The odd-length lines of text don't help > readability, either. It's also customary to insert a blank line between > paragraphs. That, surely, is to enhance readability. If you want people to > read your stuff, you've got to make it easy for them. > > If you insist on writing in a style reminiscent of E. E. Cummings poetry, > you may find that your messages are read by readers of this forum with about > the same frequency as E.E. Cummings' work, which might be a shame, in case > you really do have something significant to contribute. or in case I'm the > only one who doesn't read much Cummings. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:13 AM > Subject: Re: Language and English > > > this may help > > i am 38 years old, so there is nothing about my typing style > > where i am trying to be cute. > > i collect any computer i can get my hands on. > > i am developing an operating system and a multimedia program > > to create movies. > > i use a newer computer to produce records. > > i am also working out, as i was talking about > > in the original thread that got off track, a distributed > > os to control robots and also a custom computer > > to do the same. > > > > i guess thats it. > > joee > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 13:18:18 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English References: <34.207fe82c.29670489@aol.com> <001801c19536$af89c9a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3C35E114.5496BA1A@verizon.net> Message-ID: <00b501c19554$916cc260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Nope ... never studied Latin ... folks don't use it much anymore. Most of the guys on this list recognize, however, that GERMAN, which I learned before English, is not a romance language, being of the "other" camp, i.e, a Germanic language. Had you paid attention during what few classes you attended, you might, perhaps, have encountered reference to a fellow named Chaucer, who wrote in a style almost trivially transliterable to German, because of the structural and lexical similarities between the languages. That, of course, was before English became an "infix" language, meaning that the order of the words has effect on the meaning of the sentence. (See what you can learn if you watch the PBS channel instead of the "Simpsons?") Why is it you feel you have to defend yourself against what really isn't an attack? What's happened is that a few guys have, to greater or lesser degree, pointed out their annoyance at a practice to which you've become accustomed. The message is simple. Don't do that here. It's OK to do it elsewhere, if folks don't object. They do object here, however. Give yourself, and all of us, a break, please. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Koller" To: ; "Richard Erlacher" Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 10:06 AM Subject: Re: Language and English > > > Hello Dick, > > I get the impression, which may not be correct, that you > may be retired, because of the greater amount of time that > you are able to devote to reading and responding to newsgroup > messages. > > If this is so, that would mean you encountered an educational > system at a previous date in time that may have been more formal > than that which I encountered. > > Question. Did you ever study Latin? Was Latin offered in your > school system? It was not offered in mine, but since I recently > have been in contact with people in France, Italy, Germany, and > Spain, I believe having studied the root language of all the > "romance" languages would have proven helpful now. I'll bet that > when Latin no longer became a requirement in many educational > programs, there was more than one that must have felt that > that was a sign of deteriorating standards. > > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > Gee ... judging from the net unwillingness to use normal "adult" > > punctuation, captitalization, etc, it does look as though you're doing it > > just to be "cute." I can't think of a single reason, otherwise, why one > > would one do that? > > > > When I was in the 8th grade, one of the courses we were required to take was > > in typing. I've never gotten particularly good at it, but I did learn that > > a period at the end of a sentence is followed by two spaces, for example. > > In about the first grade, I learned that the first letter in a sentence is > > customarily capitalized. Why? I don't know, but it appears to be the > > custom. As a consequence, the absence of these basic features makes one's > > writing harder to read. The odd-length lines of text don't help > > readability, either. It's also customary to insert a blank line between > > paragraphs. That, surely, is to enhance readability. If you want people to > > read your stuff, you've got to make it easy for them. > > > > If you insist on writing in a style reminiscent of E. E. Cummings poetry, > > you may find that your messages are read by readers of this forum with about > > the same frequency as E.E. Cummings' work, which might be a shame, in case > > you really do have something significant to contribute. or in case I'm the > > only one who doesn't read much Cummings. > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:13 AM > > Subject: Re: Language and English > > > > > this may help > > > i am 38 years old, so there is nothing about my typing style > > > where i am trying to be cute. > > > i collect any computer i can get my hands on. > > > i am developing an operating system and a multimedia program > > > to create movies. > > > i use a newer computer to produce records. > > > i am also working out, as i was talking about > > > in the original thread that got off track, a distributed > > > os to control robots and also a custom computer > > > to do the same. > > > > > > i guess thats it. > > > joee > > > > > > > > From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 4 13:47:08 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English References: <34.207fe82c.29670489@aol.com> <001801c19536$af89c9a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3C35E114.5496BA1A@verizon.net> <002901c1954a$13007480$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3C3606BC.7EC549D3@verizon.net> Dick, > Note that this item is NOT published on the mailing list, > since few people will be interested in its content. Note that this item IS published on the mailing list, because quite frankly, Charlotte, I don't give a damn. > see below, plz. Does this portray a laziness on your part that makes the reader have to hunt through a long message to see what you have to say? I had noticed this many times in the past, but previously refrained from mentioning it. I felt that, up to now, I would tolerate your style. > If your message is not germane to that topic, if it contains > no relevant information, or if it reflects no thought, it > should not be there. Can I also hold you to this, or do you succumb to a double standard? I recall so many messages from you, so many of which were off topic, that I thought only someone who had nothing better to do with their time, could have so much time to devote to a "mailing list". Is that better? > If you had attended all your classes, performed all the assigned > reading and writing, and taken the feedback from your teachers > seriously, you'd be able to express yourself precisely and > accurately using the tools the system provided. The fact that you > don't shows that you didn't. I attended enough classes to graduate in the top 1% out of a graduating class of over 700, taking the hardest level of classes available in the advanced placement program, all the while working nearly full time while I was in school. You obviously have me confused with someone else. > If I were you, I'd not start on blaming the educational system > for your own inability to communicate in the prevailing language > in our culture. > Those are things clearly absent from your "stream-of-consciousness" writing style, ... I'd sit down with you anytime and compare literary abilities and writing styles. I might not be world class, but you'll never out perform me when I'm on a project that, to me, is of greater importance than a "mailing list" message. > Did you ever study FORTRAN FORTRAN IV at Old Dominion University when I was 16, back in 1973. I was released from some of my Chemistry classes to simultaneously take that programming class. > not to mention oddly composed, incomprehensibly formatted, and > poorly spelled items, written in poor grammar and with incom- > prehensibly incorrect syntax. Again, you obviously must have me confused with Joee who posted the message that began this thread. > It's not a place for idle chatter, nor is it a place to prattle > on about senseless things, though that happens from time to time. Yes, you do this quite often. > English is a Germanic language, That was my mistake. I have now learned something new, or a misconception of mine has now been corrected. I thank you, it will not be forgotten. http://softrat.home.mindspring.com/germanic.html Now I will have to ponder why there are so many similarities between French and Italian words and their English counterparts, while to me the German language seems so much different. Ian Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Note that this item is NOT published on the mailing list, since few people > will be interested in its content. That is how personalized replies > normally are handled in this environment. > > see below, plz. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Koller" > To: ; "Richard Erlacher" > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 10:06 AM > Subject: Re: Language and English > > > > Hello Dick, > > > > I get the impression, which may not be correct, that you > > may be retired, because of the greater amount of time that > > you are able to devote to reading and responding to newsgroup > > messages. > > > Contrary to what you apparently believe, this is not a newsgroup. This is a > mailing list, and one that's privately maintained, funded, and hosted. I'd > suggest you find out what a newsgroup is and then proceed. I'd also > suggest you consider why this list exists. It's a medium for communicating > information and thoughts germane to a specific topic. If your message is > not germane to that topic, if it contains no relevant information, or if it > reflects no thought, it should not be there. > > > > If this is so, that would mean you encountered an educational > > system at a previous date in time that may have been more formal > > than that which I encountered. > > > Nope ... I have two kids in expensive, out-of-state colleges thouseands of > miles away, and that doesn't allow me to sit on my duff and read nonsense, > not to mention oddly composed, incomprehensibly formatted, and poorly > spelled items, written in poor grammar and with incomprehensibly incorrect > syntax. > > If I were you, I'd not start on blaming the educational system for your own > inability to communicate in the prevailing language in our culture. If you > had attended all your classes, performed all the assigned reading and > writing, and taken the feedback from your teachers seriously, you'd be able > to express yourself precisely and accurately using the tools the system > provided. The fact that you don't shows that you didn't. > > I was actively engaged in assisting as well as monitoring the education of > my children as they went through the public education system. From that > experience I learned that one can still get the level of education necessary > to express onesself appropriately and accurately in terms of the common > mathematics and science and with reference to the same historical and > literary background that has traditionally been taught. It is a different > process than it was when I went through it, which I did in grades 6 through > 12, and onward, probably all well before you were born. > > > > Question. Did you ever study Latin? Was Latin offered in your > > school system? It was not offered in mine, but since I recently > > have been in contact with people in France, Italy, Germany, and > > Spain, I believe having studied the root language of all the > > "romance" languages would have proven helpful now. I'll bet that > > when Latin no longer became a requirement in many educational > > programs, there was more than one that must have felt that > > that was a sign of deteriorating standards. > > > No, I didn't study Latin, since people don't use it any longer. I was > studying English, which, as everyone knows, is NOT a romance language. > > Did you ever study FORTRAN (before FTN77) or COBOL? At least those are > still used ... occasionally. > > Latin was taught in order to teach the concept of structure and rigor. > Those are things clearly absent from your "stream-of-consciousness" writing > style, which suggests that, if you did study Latin, you didn't attend all > the classes or perform all the assigned work. > > English is a Germanic language, like, German, which also is not a romance > language, and is my "second" language, German having been the first. That > may explain why my adherence to precise grammar, syntax, and orthography > leans somewhat to the pedantic. > > I'd suggest that you take the extra moment or two to think about what you > need to say in the ClassicCmp mailing list environment BEFORE you say it, in > which case you won't have to defend it afterwards, which really isn't > necessary anyway. I'd also suggest you take time to consider the effect of > what you do to format, punctuate, and capitalize your writing on other > people's ability to read what you transmit. The mailing list isn't a "Chat" > room. It's not a place for idle chatter, nor is it a place to prattle on > about senseless things, though that happens from time to time. > > Oddly formatted messages become nearly unreadable on displays formatted > differently from yours, and there's little you can do about it, since you've > no control over the display system some folks use. Many of the users of > "the list" are in other countries, which means they're using a language with > which they're not familiar. > > The use of colloqialisms, particularly the use of esoteric abbreviations, > can render your messages unintelligible. The reason most of us use > "standard" English is that (1) because it's familiar to us, we can quickly > and easily read it, extracting the content with reasonable reliability, and > (2) because people not so familiar with popular idioms will not have to > spend time deciphering them. It's difficult enough sifting through the > computerese jargon. > > > I take time form my busy day to tell you all this because you may have > something of value to contribute. Learning, first and foremost, requires > exposure to information that one doesn't already have. If there's little of > that, and if your messages are difficult to read, your messages will > ultimately end up in the "kill file" rather than on the list of things > people read. That will, of course be transparent to you, since the listbot > will still distribute the things you transmit. It will just become a waste > of bandwidth, however. > > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > > Gee ... judging from the net unwillingness to use normal "adult" > > > punctuation, captitalization, etc, it does look as though you're doing > it > > > just to be "cute." I can't think of a single reason, otherwise, why one > > > would one do that? > > > > > > When I was in the 8th grade, one of the courses we were required to take > was > > > in typing. I've never gotten particularly good at it, but I did learn > that > > > a period at the end of a sentence is followed by two spaces, for > example. > > > In about the first grade, I learned that the first letter in a sentence > is > > > customarily capitalized. Why? I don't know, but it appears to be the > > > custom. As a consequence, the absence of these basic features makes > one's > > > writing harder to read. The odd-length lines of text don't help > > > readability, either. It's also customary to insert a blank line between > > > paragraphs. That, surely, is to enhance readability. If you want > people to > > > read your stuff, you've got to make it easy for them. > > > > > > If you insist on writing in a style reminiscent of E. E. Cummings > poetry, > > > you may find that your messages are read by readers of this forum with > about > > > the same frequency as E.E. Cummings' work, which might be a shame, in > case > > > you really do have something significant to contribute. or in case I'm > the > > > only one who doesn't read much Cummings. > > > > > > Dick > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:13 AM > > > Subject: Re: Language and English > > > > > > > this may help > > > > i am 38 years old, so there is nothing about my typing style > > > > where i am trying to be cute. > > > > i collect any computer i can get my hands on. > > > > i am developing an operating system and a multimedia program > > > > to create movies. > > > > i use a newer computer to produce records. > > > > i am also working out, as i was talking about > > > > in the original thread that got off track, a distributed > > > > os to control robots and also a custom computer > > > > to do the same. > > > > > > > > i guess thats it. > > > > joee > > > > > > > > > > > > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 4 15:07:41 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <3C3606BC.7EC549D3@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20020104210741.4472.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ian Koller wrote: > > English is a Germanic language, > > http://softrat.home.mindspring.com/germanic.html > > Now I will have to ponder why there are so many similarities > between French and Italian words and their English counterparts, > while to me the German language seems so much different. It is a Germanic language in origin and syntax (through the Saxon, etc.), but the vocabulary has been heavily influenced by the Norman French. Look at how many English cognates are now present in Japanese and Russian. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From dtwright at uiuc.edu Fri Jan 4 16:53:46 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <3C3606BC.7EC549D3@verizon.net>; from vze2mnvr@verizon.net on Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 02:47:08PM -0500 References: <34.207fe82c.29670489@aol.com> <001801c19536$af89c9a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3C35E114.5496BA1A@verizon.net> <002901c1954a$13007480$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3C3606BC.7EC549D3@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20020104165346.D925879@uiuc.edu> Ian Koller said: > > That was my mistake. I have now learned something new, or > a misconception of mine has now been corrected. I thank you, > it will not be forgotten. > > http://softrat.home.mindspring.com/germanic.html > > Now I will have to ponder why there are so many similarities > between French and Italian words and their English counterparts, > while to me the German language seems so much different. Because England was invaded by France at some time about 700-1000 yrs. ago (that's very approximate...), which resulted in the "pollution" of Old English into Middle English, which much more closely resembles french, and which eventually evolved into the familiar Modern English. > > > Ian > > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > Note that this item is NOT published on the mailing list, since few people > > will be interested in its content. That is how personalized replies > > normally are handled in this environment. > > > > see below, plz. > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ian Koller" > > To: ; "Richard Erlacher" > > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 10:06 AM > > Subject: Re: Language and English > > > > > > Hello Dick, > > > > > > I get the impression, which may not be correct, that you > > > may be retired, because of the greater amount of time that > > > you are able to devote to reading and responding to newsgroup > > > messages. > > > > > Contrary to what you apparently believe, this is not a newsgroup. This is a > > mailing list, and one that's privately maintained, funded, and hosted. I'd > > suggest you find out what a newsgroup is and then proceed. I'd also > > suggest you consider why this list exists. It's a medium for communicating > > information and thoughts germane to a specific topic. If your message is > > not germane to that topic, if it contains no relevant information, or if it > > reflects no thought, it should not be there. > > > > > > If this is so, that would mean you encountered an educational > > > system at a previous date in time that may have been more formal > > > than that which I encountered. > > > > > Nope ... I have two kids in expensive, out-of-state colleges thouseands of > > miles away, and that doesn't allow me to sit on my duff and read nonsense, > > not to mention oddly composed, incomprehensibly formatted, and poorly > > spelled items, written in poor grammar and with incomprehensibly incorrect > > syntax. > > > > If I were you, I'd not start on blaming the educational system for your own > > inability to communicate in the prevailing language in our culture. If you > > had attended all your classes, performed all the assigned reading and > > writing, and taken the feedback from your teachers seriously, you'd be able > > to express yourself precisely and accurately using the tools the system > > provided. The fact that you don't shows that you didn't. > > > > I was actively engaged in assisting as well as monitoring the education of > > my children as they went through the public education system. From that > > experience I learned that one can still get the level of education necessary > > to express onesself appropriately and accurately in terms of the common > > mathematics and science and with reference to the same historical and > > literary background that has traditionally been taught. It is a different > > process than it was when I went through it, which I did in grades 6 through > > 12, and onward, probably all well before you were born. > > > > > > Question. Did you ever study Latin? Was Latin offered in your > > > school system? It was not offered in mine, but since I recently > > > have been in contact with people in France, Italy, Germany, and > > > Spain, I believe having studied the root language of all the > > > "romance" languages would have proven helpful now. I'll bet that > > > when Latin no longer became a requirement in many educational > > > programs, there was more than one that must have felt that > > > that was a sign of deteriorating standards. > > > > > No, I didn't study Latin, since people don't use it any longer. I was > > studying English, which, as everyone knows, is NOT a romance language. > > > > Did you ever study FORTRAN (before FTN77) or COBOL? At least those are > > still used ... occasionally. > > > > Latin was taught in order to teach the concept of structure and rigor. > > Those are things clearly absent from your "stream-of-consciousness" writing > > style, which suggests that, if you did study Latin, you didn't attend all > > the classes or perform all the assigned work. > > > > English is a Germanic language, like, German, which also is not a romance > > language, and is my "second" language, German having been the first. That > > may explain why my adherence to precise grammar, syntax, and orthography > > leans somewhat to the pedantic. > > > > I'd suggest that you take the extra moment or two to think about what you > > need to say in the ClassicCmp mailing list environment BEFORE you say it, in > > which case you won't have to defend it afterwards, which really isn't > > necessary anyway. I'd also suggest you take time to consider the effect of > > what you do to format, punctuate, and capitalize your writing on other > > people's ability to read what you transmit. The mailing list isn't a "Chat" > > room. It's not a place for idle chatter, nor is it a place to prattle on > > about senseless things, though that happens from time to time. > > > > Oddly formatted messages become nearly unreadable on displays formatted > > differently from yours, and there's little you can do about it, since you've > > no control over the display system some folks use. Many of the users of > > "the list" are in other countries, which means they're using a language with > > which they're not familiar. > > > > The use of colloqialisms, particularly the use of esoteric abbreviations, > > can render your messages unintelligible. The reason most of us use > > "standard" English is that (1) because it's familiar to us, we can quickly > > and easily read it, extracting the content with reasonable reliability, and > > (2) because people not so familiar with popular idioms will not have to > > spend time deciphering them. It's difficult enough sifting through the > > computerese jargon. > > > > > I take time form my busy day to tell you all this because you may have > > something of value to contribute. Learning, first and foremost, requires > > exposure to information that one doesn't already have. If there's little of > > that, and if your messages are difficult to read, your messages will > > ultimately end up in the "kill file" rather than on the list of things > > people read. That will, of course be transparent to you, since the listbot > > will still distribute the things you transmit. It will just become a waste > > of bandwidth, however. > > > > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > > > > Gee ... judging from the net unwillingness to use normal "adult" > > > > punctuation, captitalization, etc, it does look as though you're doing > > it > > > > just to be "cute." I can't think of a single reason, otherwise, why one > > > > would one do that? > > > > > > > > When I was in the 8th grade, one of the courses we were required to take > > was > > > > in typing. I've never gotten particularly good at it, but I did learn > > that > > > > a period at the end of a sentence is followed by two spaces, for > > example. > > > > In about the first grade, I learned that the first letter in a sentence > > is > > > > customarily capitalized. Why? I don't know, but it appears to be the > > > > custom. As a consequence, the absence of these basic features makes > > one's > > > > writing harder to read. The odd-length lines of text don't help > > > > readability, either. It's also customary to insert a blank line between > > > > paragraphs. That, surely, is to enhance readability. If you want > > people to > > > > read your stuff, you've got to make it easy for them. > > > > > > > > If you insist on writing in a style reminiscent of E. E. Cummings > > poetry, > > > > you may find that your messages are read by readers of this forum with > > about > > > > the same frequency as E.E. Cummings' work, which might be a shame, in > > case > > > > you really do have something significant to contribute. or in case I'm > > the > > > > only one who doesn't read much Cummings. > > > > > > > > Dick > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:13 AM > > > > Subject: Re: Language and English > > > > > > > > > this may help > > > > > i am 38 years old, so there is nothing about my typing style > > > > > where i am trying to be cute. > > > > > i collect any computer i can get my hands on. > > > > > i am developing an operating system and a multimedia program > > > > > to create movies. > > > > > i use a newer computer to produce records. > > > > > i am also working out, as i was talking about > > > > > in the original thread that got off track, a distributed > > > > > os to control robots and also a custom computer > > > > > to do the same. > > > > > > > > > > i guess thats it. > > > > > joee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From donm at cts.com Fri Jan 4 17:43:21 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <3C3606BC.7EC549D3@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote: > Now I will have to ponder why there are so many similarities > between French and Italian words and their English counterparts, > while to me the German language seems so much different. Read Mark Twain's treatise on the German language :) - don From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Jan 4 11:33:26 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <001801c19536$af89c9a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3C35F576.7204.E4571549@localhost> > When I was in the 8th grade, one of the courses we were required to take was > in typing. I've never gotten particularly good at it, but I did learn that > a period at the end of a sentence is followed by two spaces, for example. Thank you very much. So it seams there is a 'school' forcing this in the US .... and I always wondered why some people add two spaces after a period. There's even a very old 'text beautyfier' for DOS which inserted this (for my eyes) stupid spaces. Well, I guess CC is no only the hardwarae :=) Gurss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From at258 at osfn.org Fri Jan 4 11:49:08 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <3C35F576.7204.E4571549@localhost> Message-ID: Yes, this come from old typewriter formatting. It is also visually pleasing. The colon also takes two spaces. On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Hans Franke wrote: > > When I was in the 8th grade, one of the courses we were required to take was > > in typing. I've never gotten particularly good at it, but I did learn that > > a period at the end of a sentence is followed by two spaces, for example. > > Thank you very much. So it seams there is a 'school' forcing this in > the US .... and I always wondered why some people add two spaces after > a period. There's even a very old 'text beautyfier' for DOS which > inserted this (for my eyes) stupid spaces. Well, I guess CC is no > only the hardwarae :=) > > Gurss > H. > > -- > VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Jan 4 12:16:24 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: References: <3C35F576.7204.E4571549@localhost> Message-ID: <3C35FF88.5523.E47E6E19@localhost> > It is also visually pleasing. I guess that depends strong on your background - in my opinion it looks quite disturbing. > The colon also takes two spaces. Sounds logical, but I can't remember havn see that one. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From stanb at dial.pipex.com Fri Jan 4 13:25:34 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 04 Jan 2002 18:33:26 +0100." <3C35F576.7204.E4571549@localhost> Message-ID: <200201041925.TAA04232@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Hans Franke" said: > > When I was in the 8th grade, one of the courses we were required to take was > > in typing. I've never gotten particularly good at it, but I did learn that > > a period at the end of a sentence is followed by two spaces, for example. > > Thank you very much. So it seams there is a 'school' forcing this in > the US .... and I always wondered why some people add two spaces after > a period. It's one of the syntax elements of standard written English, as taught in Britain anyway for many, many years. One space after a comma, two after a period, exclamation or question mark, indent the first character of a paragraph, etc... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From red at bears.org Fri Jan 4 14:31:23 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <200201041925.TAA04232@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Stan Barr wrote: > It's one of the syntax elements of standard written English, as taught > in Britain anyway for many, many years. One space after a comma, two after > a period, exclamation or question mark, indent the first character of a > paragraph, etc... These are all _typesetting_ rules, and not so much grammar rules. Furthermore, most of these rules are workarounds for problems introduced by the limited nature of the typewriter as compared to a full typesetting machine. Typesetting machines use spaces of varying widths according to complex rules---some of which are aesthetic in nature. Generally speaking, spaces after full stops in typeset materials are wider than spaces between words Typewriter rules like "two hyphens approximate one em-dash" (wrong, IMO, it should be three hyphens) are put in place because common typewriters have traded off mechanical complexity for widespread adoption and lack the full character set of typesetting machines. Many early typewriters, in an attempt to reduce mechanical complexity to the utmost, even lack differentiated type for the numerals '1' and '0' as either can be suitably approximated in typewritten documents by the lowercase letter 'l' and the uppercase letter 'O', respectively. Even the American English "rule" of placing all punctuation inside quotation marks is a _typographical convention_ that stems from the early days of movable type, when the period and comma were the most fragile pieces of type and were prone to breaking off in the press. Placing a period between a quotation mark and a space increased the mechanical stress on the die, and made it more likely to break than if it were "protected" on one side by other type. Example: ...a chicken". Sighing heavily, he... ...died suddenly," Ernestine remarked without... Should this tradition continue in an age where fragility of movable type is no longer a real concern, and punctuation placed inside quotation marks has the real possibility of confusing meaning? Example: At the SCM prompt, type, "SHOW BOOT." At the SCM prompt, type, "SHOW BOOT". Which one is correct? Anyway. Don't confuse typographical convention with rules of grammar. Notice in my first line of text, the underscores surrounding the word, "typesetting". Is that "incorrect grammar"? Or is it a typesetting convention for approximating emphasis in a medium which cannot predictably reproduce emphasized text? ok r. PS: don't forget that underlining, as a typographic convention, came about because italic text could not predictably be reproduced on a typewriter. From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Jan 4 14:53:46 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: from "r. 'bear' stricklin" at Jan 4, 02 03:31:23 pm Message-ID: <200201042053.PAA24796@wordstock.com> > > Should this tradition continue in an age where fragility of movable type > is no longer a real concern, and punctuation placed inside quotation marks > has the real possibility of confusing meaning? > > Example: > > At the SCM prompt, type, "SHOW BOOT." > > At the SCM prompt, type, "SHOW BOOT". > > Which one is correct? > That would depend if this were part of a COBOL program or not. BRYAN. From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 16:09:49 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English References: <200201042053.PAA24796@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <001a01c1956c$86ea6780$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> To some extent, it would depend also on whether you wanted a perfect score on this week's test. When I was learning English punctuation, I was taught that the quotation marks come last, even though the terminal punctuation is not part of the quoted item. Aside from that, I was also taught that two bits of punctuation never go together, unless the last one is a quotation mark. Never having had any interest or training in COBOL I wouldn't guess as to the correctness of that line of text. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Pope" To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 1:53 PM Subject: Re: Language and English > > > > Should this tradition continue in an age where fragility of movable type > > is no longer a real concern, and punctuation placed inside quotation marks > > has the real possibility of confusing meaning? > > > > Example: > > > > At the SCM prompt, type, "SHOW BOOT." > > > > At the SCM prompt, type, "SHOW BOOT". > > > > Which one is correct? > > > > That would depend if this were part of a COBOL program or not. > > BRYAN. > > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 4 15:03:36 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020104210336.19294.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> --- "r. 'bear' stricklin" wrote: > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Stan Barr wrote: > > > It's one of the syntax elements of standard written English... > > These are all _typesetting_ rules, and not so much grammar rules. It's all part of syntax and style, not grammar as you say. How many people on this list ever turned in a paper where the teacher/professor insisted on strict adherence to "Strunk and White"? > Many early typewriters, in an attempt to reduce mechanical complexity to > the utmost, even lack differentiated type for the numerals '1' and '0' > as either can be suitably approximated in typewritten documents by the > lowercase letter 'l' and the uppercase letter 'O', respectively. On Topic: my mother's IBM Selectric type balls do not all contain a different facet for "1" (one) and "l" (ell). She had a 2"x4" plastic clip-on key guide for some type balls. ISTR that if you pressed the "1" key, you got some sort of bracket with the Courier ball installed. > Even the American English "rule" of placing all punctuation inside > quotation marks is a _typographical convention_ that stems from the early > days of movable type, when the period and comma were the most fragile > pieces of type and were prone to breaking off in the press. > Example: > > At the SCM prompt, type, "SHOW BOOT." > > At the SCM prompt, type, "SHOW BOOT". > > Which one is correct? This exact convention is discussed in "The New Hacker's Dictionary". It mentions that American English convention is to put punctuation inside the quotation marks (but does not give any explanation), and that Hacker usage prefers things in quotes to be the literal thing you type at the computer. I tend toward the modern usage, but I _do_ know the difference. -ethan P.S. - in answer to an earlier question asked of the group in general, yes, I have taken Latin. It was a required course (as I think it still should be, everywhere, as it once was). I did not attend a public high-school, however. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 4 14:15:02 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: More off-topic drivel: Re: Language and English In-Reply-To: <3C35F576.7204.E4571549@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Hans Franke wrote: > Thank you very much. So it seams there is a 'school' forcing this in > the US .... and I always wondered why some people add two spaces after > a period. There's even a very old 'text beautyfier' for DOS which > inserted this (for my eyes) stupid spaces. Well, I guess CC is no > only the hardwarae :=) This actually serves a functional purpose, Herr Franke. It helps the eye as one reads to delineate sentences. I would suspect you silly Germans would subscribe to such precisionry, but I guess that bent for efficiency makes you want to save on the extra keystroke ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 15:57:15 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: More off-topic drivel: Re: Language and English References: Message-ID: <004e01c1956a$c5a6cec0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You may have noticed, Sellam, that the Germans recently performed vast truncation surgery on their language, though I don't know much of the details. American English could benefit by removing many of those features that puzzle foreigners and natives alike, such as the features that allow one to presume that GHOTI is pronounced like FISH. That's GH as in enough, O as in women, and TI as in nation. If we could simply agree to spell through thru, as it's often done already, and tough as tuff, etc, it would be an improvement. Of course, there are still lots of possible syntax errors, e.g. there vs. their vs they're. I couldn't find it when I was looking for it, but I saw one net-funny that I received once, illustrating how that would resurrect the roots our language shares with German. If we could come up with an acceptable set of spellings and grammar that would meet everyone's needs, perhaps we could reduce the need for spell-checking our speech. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 1:15 PM Subject: More off-topic drivel: Re: Language and English > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Hans Franke wrote: > > > Thank you very much. So it seems there is a 'school' forcing this in > > the US .... and I always wondered why some people add two spaces after > > a period. There's even a very old 'text beautifier' for DOS which > > inserted this (for my eyes) stupid spaces. Well, I guess CC is no > > only the hardwarae :=) > > This actually serves a functional purpose, Herr Franke. It helps the eye > as one reads to delineate sentences. > > I would suspect you silly Germans would subscribe to such precisionry, but > I guess that bent for efficiency makes you want to save on the extra > keystroke ;) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From spc at conman.org Fri Jan 4 18:34:53 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: More off-topic drivel: Re: Language and English In-Reply-To: <004e01c1956a$c5a6cec0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jan 04, 2002 02:57:15 PM Message-ID: <200201050034.TAA08499@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Richard Erlacher once stated: > > If we could simply agree to spell through thru, as it's often done already, > and tough as tuff, etc, it would be an improvement. Of course, there are > still lots of possible syntax errors, e.g. there vs. their vs they're. A Plan for the Improvement of English Spelling by Mark Twain For example, in Year 1 that useless letter "c" would be dropped to be replased either by "k" or "s", and likewise "x" would no longer be part of the alphabet. The only kase in which "c" would be retained would be the "ch" formation, which will be dealt with later. Year 2 might reform "w" spelling, so that "which" and "one" would take the same konsonant, wile Year 3 might well abolish "y" replasing it with "i" and Iear 4 might fiks the "g/j" anomali wonse and for all. Jenerally, then, the improvement would kontinue iear bai iear with Iear 5 doing awai with useless double konsonants, and Iears 6-12 or so modifaiing vowlz and the rimeining voist and unvoist konsonants. Bai Iear 15 or sou, it wud fainali bi posibl tu meik ius ov thi ridandant letez "c", "y" and "x" -- bai now jast a memori in the maindz ov ould doderez -- tu riplais "ch", "sh", and "th" rispektivli. Fainali, xen, aafte sam 20 iers ov orxogrefkl riform, wi wud hev a lojikl, kohirnt speling in ius xrewawt xe Ingliy-spiking werld. -spc (Wondurfl!) From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 4 15:59:02 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: "Hans Franke" "Re: Language and English" (Jan 4, 18:33) References: <3C35F576.7204.E4571549@localhost> Message-ID: <10201042159.ZM17121@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 4, 18:33, Hans Franke wrote: > > When I was in the 8th grade, one of the courses we were required to take was > > in typing. I've never gotten particularly good at it, but I did learn that > > a period at the end of a sentence is followed by two spaces, for example. > > Thank you very much. So it seams there is a 'school' forcing this in > the US .... and I always wondered why some people add two spaces after > a period. It's a recognised standard in English. The idea is to make sentence spaces larger than word spaces. Curiously, it's not common in the printing profession, and not at all in other languages. I imagine Hans was taught that it's "wrong", since I imagine he learned to type in German. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From donm at cts.com Fri Jan 4 16:07:53 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <3C35F576.7204.E4571549@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Hans Franke wrote: > > When I was in the 8th grade, one of the courses we were required to take was > > in typing. I've never gotten particularly good at it, but I did learn that > > a period at the end of a sentence is followed by two spaces, for example. > > Thank you very much. So it seams there is a 'school' forcing this in > the US .... and I always wondered why some people add two spaces after > a period. There's even a very old 'text beautyfier' for DOS which > inserted this (for my eyes) stupid spaces. Well, I guess CC is no > only the hardwarae :=) > > Gurss > H. > > -- > VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ > Well Hans, it is probably less objectionable that the right column justified printing that we see in newspaper printing which frequently ends up with unbelievable spaces in the middle of test. Equally, objectionable is the computerized hyphenation which oftimes totally ignores the most basic rules. A pox on both. - don From spc at conman.org Fri Jan 4 18:26:59 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Jan 04, 2002 02:07:53 PM Message-ID: <200201050027.TAA08467@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Don Maslin once stated: > > Well Hans, it is probably less objectionable that the right column > justified printing that we see in newspaper printing which frequently > ends up with unbelievable spaces in the middle of test. Equally, > objectionable is the computerized hyphenation which oftimes totally > ignores the most basic rules. A pox on both. I wonder why most typography systems don't use the system developed by Donald Knuth for TeX. It easily handles about 95% of the cases for hyphenation, and when it breaks down, you can give it hints for words it missed. -spc (O. T. since TeX is older than 10 years 8-) From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Fri Jan 4 12:24:28 2002 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <3C35E114.5496BA1A@verizon.net> References: <34.207fe82c.29670489@aol.com> <001801c19536$af89c9a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020104132305.00b10760@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 12:06 PM 1/4/02 -0500, you wrote: >Question. Did you ever study Latin? Was Latin offered in your >school system? It was not offered in mine, When I went to school (many years ago & I am retired) we had a class in 8th grade in which we studies Spanish, German, French & Latin so we could decide which language to take in high school. From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 4 14:00:49 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:09 2005 Subject: Language and English References: <34.207fe82c.29670489@aol.com> <001801c19536$af89c9a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20020104132305.00b10760@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <3C3609F1.11FEAC1B@verizon.net> That sounds like a very sensible approach. Even a small level of exposure to all those languages might make for a broader, more rounded education. Gene Ehrich wrote: > > At 12:06 PM 1/4/02 -0500, you wrote: > >Question. Did you ever study Latin? Was Latin offered in your > >school system? It was not offered in mine, > > When I went to school (many years ago & I am retired) we had a class in 8th > grade in which we studies Spanish, German, French & Latin so we could > decide which language to take in high school. From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 15:48:32 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Language and English References: <34.207fe82c.29670489@aol.com> <001801c19536$af89c9a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20020104132305.00b10760@pop3.norton.antivirus> <3C3609F1.11FEAC1B@verizon.net> Message-ID: <004201c19569$8da092a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Unfortunately, todays student doesn't have the tools he needs to cope with a foreign language if he hasn't been taught basic sentence structure(subject, verb, predicate nominative, predicate adjective, etc.) , spelling, and grammar. A foreign language would, otherwise, help the student with such things, as well as with syntax. English, however, differs from the languages listed in the quoted message below in that the order of the words in a sentence greatly affect the meaning of the sentence, while that's not so much the case in the other languages. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Koller" To: ; "Gene Ehrich" Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 1:00 PM Subject: Re: Language and English > > That sounds like a very sensible approach. Even a small level > of exposure to all those languages might make for a broader, > more rounded education. > > Gene Ehrich wrote: > > > > At 12:06 PM 1/4/02 -0500, you wrote: > > >Question. Did you ever study Latin? Was Latin offered in your > > >school system? It was not offered in mine, > > > > When I went to school (many years ago & I am retired) we had a class in 8th > > grade in which we studies Spanish, German, French & Latin so we could > > decide which language to take in high school. > From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 4 16:59:57 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Language and English References: <34.207fe82c.29670489@aol.com> <001801c19536$af89c9a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20020104132305.00b10760@pop3.norton.antivirus> <3C3609F1.11FEAC1B@verizon.net> <004201c19569$8da092a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3C3633ED.F553A8A1@verizon.net> Richard Erlacher wrote: I've never advocated getting high at school. or elsewhere.) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Richard Erlacher wrote: > if he hasn't been taught basic sentence structure(subject, > verb, predicate nominative, predicate adjective, etc.) Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Unfortunately, todays student doesn't have the tools he needs to cope with a > foreign language if he hasn't been taught basic sentence structure(subject, > verb, predicate nominative, predicate adjective, etc.) , spelling, and > grammar. A foreign language would, otherwise, help the student with such > things, as well as with syntax. English, however, differs from the > languages listed in the quoted message below in that the order of the words > in a sentence greatly affect the meaning of the sentence, while that's not > so much the case in the other languages. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Koller" > To: ; "Gene Ehrich" > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 1:00 PM > Subject: Re: Language and English > > > > That sounds like a very sensible approach. Even a small level > > of exposure to all those languages might make for a broader, > > more rounded education. > > > > Gene Ehrich wrote: > > > > > > At 12:06 PM 1/4/02 -0500, you wrote: > > > >Question. Did you ever study Latin? Was Latin offered in your > > > >school system? It was not offered in mine, > > > > > > When I went to school (many years ago & I am retired) we had a class in > 8th > > > grade in which we studies Spanish, German, French & Latin so we could > > > decide which language to take in high school. > > From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Fri Jan 4 12:26:23 2002 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <3C35F576.7204.E4571549@localhost> References: <001801c19536$af89c9a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020104132504.00acb270@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 06:33 PM 1/4/02 +0100, you wrote: >When I was in the 8th grade, one of the courses we were required to take was >in typing. I've never gotten particularly good at it, but I did learn that >a period at the end of a sentence is followed by two spaces, for example. That's a matter of personal choice of your typing teacher. It certainly is not an english rule. ================================= Gene Ehrich gene@ehrich.com gehrich@tampabay.rr.com From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 13:01:28 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Language and English References: <001801c19536$af89c9a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20020104132504.00acb270@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <008c01c19552$38d00ba0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It's a practice inherited from the printing/publishing trades. The guys who operated the Linotype knew what to do when they encountered it, as did the machine itself. That's why the need for it. Between the end of WWII and the mid-'50's it became standard practice. It was presented in the textbook associated with the typing class, so it clearly wasn't an arbitrary choice on the teacher's part. I ran into it again when I was a proofreader at a local newspaper while a high-school student. (Note the hyphen ... I've never advocated getting high at school. or elsewhere.) Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Ehrich" To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 11:26 AM Subject: Re: Language and English > At 06:33 PM 1/4/02 +0100, you wrote: > >When I was in the 8th grade, one of the courses we were required to take was > >in typing. I've never gotten particularly good at it, but I did learn that > >a period at the end of a sentence is followed by two spaces, for example. > > That's a matter of personal choice of your typing teacher. It certainly is > not an english rule. > > ================================= > Gene Ehrich > gene@ehrich.com > gehrich@tampabay.rr.com > > From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 4 13:14:16 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <001801c19536$af89c9a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > If you insist on writing in a style reminiscent of E. E. Cummings > poetry, you may find that your messages are read by readers of this > forum with about the same frequency as E.E. Cummings' work, which > might be a shame, in case you really do have something significant to > contribute. or in case I'm the only one who doesn't read much > Cummings. Let's be accurate here. cummings was a poet. The people posting without proper grammar and punctuation are not. P.S. cummings' work is great Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jan 4 19:06:55 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <001801c19536$af89c9a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > When I was in the 8th grade, one of the courses we were required to > take was in typing. I've never gotten particularly good at it, but I > did learn that a period at the end of a sentence is followed by two > spaces, for example. I've been told that the only reason they originally taught us to use two spaces between sentences was because a typewriter's punctuation characters are not the same width as regular letters. This isn't true with computers, so the two space rule does not apply. It's also customary to insert a blank line between > paragraphs. That, surely, is to enhance readability. If you want people to > read your stuff, you've got to make it easy for them. This also makes it easier to trim someone's email when quoting for a reply. -Toth From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jan 4 12:14:23 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <34.207fe82c.29670489@aol.com> Message-ID: Welcome to the list, joee. As you may have noticed, we are strongly opinionated, sometimes judgemental, and never subtle about expressing annoyances. My personal beef is with the use of 1024000 for a Megabyte. I prefer 1048576, will accept 1000000, but can't stand the use of 1024000. (A PC HD floppy is 80 tracks * 2 sides * 18 sectors per track * 512 bytes per sector -- how can you get "1.44 M" from THAT?) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 Golemancd@aol.com wrote: > this may help > i am 38 years old, so there is nothing about my typing style > where i am trying to be cute. > i collect any computer i can get my hands on. > i am developing an operating system and a multimedia program > to create movies. > i use a newer computer to produce records. > i am also working out, as i was talking about > in the original thread that got off track, a distributed > os to control robots and also a custom computer > to do the same. > > i guess thats it. > joee From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jan 3 17:46:13 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Language and English References: Message-ID: <3C34ED45.88EA91AA@jetnet.ab.ca> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > Welcome to the list, joee. > > As you may have noticed, we are strongly opinionated, sometimes > judgemental, and never subtle about expressing annoyances. > > My personal beef is with the use of 1024000 for a Megabyte. I prefer > 1048576, will accept 1000000, but can't stand the use of 1024000. > (A PC HD floppy is 80 tracks * 2 sides * 18 sectors per track * 512 bytes > per sector -- how can you get "1.44 M" from THAT?) Unformated data bits. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jan 4 13:21:40 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <3C34ED45.88EA91AA@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > > (A PC HD floppy is 80 tracks * 2 sides * 18 sectors per track * 512 bytes > > per sector -- how can you get "1.44 M" from THAT?) On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > Unformated data bits. Nope. IT IS NOT in any way an issue of unformatted capacity. The unformatted capacity of such disks is almost 2M. They get it by using the most ridiculous, cockamamy, idiotic possible value for what a megabyte should represent. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 4 12:39:08 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Megabyte vs Mebibyte (was Re: Language and English) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020104183908.11121.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > My personal beef is with the use of 1024000 for a Megabyte. I prefer > 1048576, will accept 1000000, but can't stand the use of 1024000. > (A PC HD floppy is 80 tracks * 2 sides * 18 sectors per track * 512 bytes > per sector -- how can you get "1.44 M" from THAT?) Besides the 1000 x 1024 method, the moniker "1.44Mb" has an additional marketing advantage - it's a simple multiple of 720K (which is really a 1Mb raw floppy, formatted to 737,280 bytes under DOS, or 1024 x 720). It's easier to conceptualize that a "1.44Mb" floppy holds twice as much as a "720K" floppy. If you called it a "1.47Mb" floppy, I think there would be even more confused newbies than there are now. Think of your modem (presuming you have one - not everyone does these days)... 28.8kbps goes to "56K" - ignoring the fact that the FCC limits the ISP end's power so that you can't achive the theoretical maximum speed, it's 57,600bps; but, calling it a "57.6K" modem or even a "fifty- seven, six" modem isn't as catchy as "fifty-six kay". Marketing and Mathematics - not much overlap. It was one of the reasons that NIST is proposing "Mebibyte" as a term for a "binary" megabyte - i.e., 1024 ^ 2 as opposed to 1000 ^ 2. People abuse the terms long enough that they lose precision, and maybe you have to go out and invent new, non-ambigious terms. Personally, I would rather not add jargon for the sake of jargon, but we'll see how far this goes. I don't think it reduces the confusion much. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jan 4 13:17:31 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Megabyte vs Mebibyte (was Re: Language and English) In-Reply-To: <20020104183908.11121.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > > My personal beef is with the use of 1024000 for a Megabyte. I prefer > > 1048576, will accept 1000000, but can't stand the use of 1024000. > > (A PC HD floppy is 80 tracks * 2 sides * 18 sectors per track * 512 bytes > > per sector -- how can you get "1.44 M" from THAT?) On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Besides the 1000 x 1024 method, the moniker "1.44Mb" has an additional > marketing advantage - it's a simple multiple of 720K (which is really > a 1Mb raw floppy, formatted to 737,280 bytes under DOS, or 1024 x 720). > It's easier to conceptualize that a "1.44Mb" floppy holds twice as much > as a "720K" floppy. If you called it a "1.47Mb" floppy, I think there > would be even more confused newbies than there are now. I think that "1.4M" does just fine. For those who are too lazy to do the arithmetic: A "Decimal" megabyte (10^6) would be 1000000 bytes, which would give the disk a capacity of 1.47 M An "honest" megabyte (2^20) would be 1048576 bytes, which would give the disk a capacity of 1.40625 M An "IBM disk" or "sleazy" megabyte (1000 * 1024) would be 1024000, which is the only way to get "1.44" M. I prefer the binary based unit, I can accept the decimal based unit, but there just is no possible justification for the mixed one, other than "But IBM has always done it that way." It's especially egregious, because even IBM, who use 1024000 for Megabyte for disks, uses 1048576 for memory. Thus, an IBM megabyte of disk storage will not hold the content of an IBM megabyte of memory! > Think of your modem (presuming you have one - not everyone does these > days)... 28.8kbps goes to "56K" - ignoring the fact that the FCC limits > the ISP end's power so that you can't achive the theoretical maximum > speed, it's 57,600bps; but, calling it a "57.6K" modem or even a "fifty- > seven, six" modem isn't as catchy as "fifty-six kay". Rounding, I don't have a problem with. In fact, I think that Alan Shugart was brilliant to round down the capacities of his drives, thus significantly reducing the support issues ("but I only got 10 and a half usable megabytes on that 11.1492872347653257 M drive") But calling the disk 1.44 is NOT rounding from 1.40625, it is inflating the capacity with a BOGUS unit size. > Marketing and Mathematics - not much overlap. It was one of the reasons > that NIST is proposing "Mebibyte" as a term for a "binary" megabyte - > i.e., 1024 ^ 2 as opposed to 1000 ^ 2. People abuse the terms long > enough that they lose precision, and maybe you have to go out and > invent new, non-ambigious terms. Personally, I would rather not add > jargon for the sake of jargon, but we'll see how far this goes. I don't > think it reduces the confusion much. I would really like "Mebibyte". IFF it were to have been introduced more than twenty years ago! They waited WAY too long. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 4 15:31:31 2002 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Megabyte vs Mebibyte (was Re: Language and English) References: Message-ID: <3C361F33.DCC49B17@verizon.net> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > My personal beef is with the use of 1024000 for a Megabyte. I prefer > > > 1048576, will accept 1000000, but can't stand the use of 1024000. > > > (A PC HD floppy is 80 tracks * 2 sides * 18 sectors per track * 512 bytes > > > per sector -- how can you get "1.44 M" from THAT?) > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Besides the 1000 x 1024 method, the moniker "1.44Mb" has an additional > > marketing advantage - it's a simple multiple of 720K (which is really > > a 1Mb raw floppy, formatted to 737,280 bytes under DOS, or 1024 x 720). > > It's easier to conceptualize that a "1.44Mb" floppy holds twice as much > > as a "720K" floppy. If you called it a "1.47Mb" floppy, I think there > > would be even more confused newbies than there are now. > > I think that "1.4M" does just fine. > > For those who are too lazy to do the arithmetic: > A "Decimal" megabyte (10^6) would be 1000000 bytes, which would give the > disk a capacity of 1.47 M > An "honest" megabyte (2^20) would be 1048576 bytes, which would give the > disk a capacity of 1.40625 M > An "IBM disk" or "sleazy" megabyte (1000 * 1024) would be 1024000, which > is the only way to get "1.44" M. > > I prefer the binary based unit, I can accept the decimal based unit, but > there just is no possible justification for the mixed one, other than "But > IBM has always done it that way." > Ironic, that the block size I work with from sending synthetic satelilite test data is based upon 1000 transfer frames. Yep, a transfer is exactly 1024 bytes. Therefore, 1024000 is used by us constantly. The 1000 count is arbitrary to some degree, but the 1024 is not. > > It's especially egregious, because even IBM, who use 1024000 for Megabyte > for disks, uses 1048576 for memory. Thus, an IBM megabyte of disk storage > will not hold the content of an IBM megabyte of memory! > Seems like you have lots of energy on this Fred. 1000 1K blocks. Is that a reason to fly off the handle? > > > Think of your modem (presuming you have one - not everyone does these > > days)... 28.8kbps goes to "56K" - ignoring the fact that the FCC limits > > the ISP end's power so that you can't achive the theoretical maximum > > speed, it's 57,600bps; but, calling it a "57.6K" modem or even a "fifty- > > seven, six" modem isn't as catchy as "fifty-six kay". > > Rounding, I don't have a problem with. In fact, I think that Alan Shugart > was brilliant to round down the capacities of his drives, thus > significantly reducing the support issues ("but I only got 10 and a half > usable megabytes on that 11.1492872347653257 M drive") > But calling the disk 1.44 is NOT rounding from 1.40625, it is inflating > the capacity with a BOGUS unit size. > May I suggest using a CD instead? They hold lots more data (660MB, I think). The average person can afford a CD burner these days. Eric > > > Marketing and Mathematics - not much overlap. It was one of the reasons > > that NIST is proposing "Mebibyte" as a term for a "binary" megabyte - > > i.e., 1024 ^ 2 as opposed to 1000 ^ 2. People abuse the terms long > > enough that they lose precision, and maybe you have to go out and > > invent new, non-ambigious terms. Personally, I would rather not add > > jargon for the sake of jargon, but we'll see how far this goes. I don't > > think it reduces the confusion much. > > I would really like "Mebibyte". IFF it were to have been introduced more > than twenty years ago! They waited WAY too long. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 4 14:21:31 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Megabyte vs Mebibyte (was Re: Language and English) In-Reply-To: <20020104183908.11121.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Marketing and Mathematics - not much overlap. It was one of the reasons > that NIST is proposing "Mebibyte" as a term for a "binary" megabyte - What? That makes no damn sense. A Megabyte was, is, and always will be 1024 * 1024 bytes. The NIST folks are a bunch of stupid losers for even suggesting such an atrocity. > i.e., 1024 ^ 2 as opposed to 1000 ^ 2. People abuse the terms long > enough that they lose precision, and maybe you have to go out and > invent new, non-ambigious terms. Personally, I would rather not add > jargon for the sake of jargon, but we'll see how far this goes. I > don't think it reduces the confusion much. They should coin a new term for a fake Megabyte (i.e. something other than 1024 ^ 2). Call it a "Maybebyte". That wasn't funny. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 4 17:39:05 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Megabyte vs Mebibyte (was Re: Language and English) In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Megabyte vs Mebibyte (was Re: Language and English)" (Jan 4, 10:39) References: <20020104183908.11121.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10201042339.ZM17698@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 4, 10:39, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Besides the 1000 x 1024 method, the moniker "1.44Mb" has an additional > marketing advantage - it's a simple multiple of 720K (which is really > a 1Mb raw floppy, formatted to 737,280 bytes under DOS, or 1024 x 720). > It's easier to conceptualize that a "1.44Mb" floppy holds twice as much > as a "720K" floppy. If you called it a "1.47Mb" floppy, I think there > would be even more confused newbies than there are now. My nitpick is that it's "MB" (megabytes) not "Mb" (megabits). And *of course* it's 1.40625MB, or 1.4MB for short :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 4 18:06:58 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jan 4, 2 10:14:23 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 928 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020105/25ca5352/attachment.ksh From zaft at azstarnet.com Fri Jan 4 14:06:33 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <001801c19536$af89c9a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <34.207fe82c.29670489@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020104130447.02571d90@mail.azstarnet.com> At 08:44 AM 1/4/2002 -0700, you wrote: >When I was in the 8th grade, one of the courses we were required to take was >in typing. I've never gotten particularly good at it, but I did learn that >a period at the end of a sentence is followed by two spaces, for example. While I, too, learned this rule in typing (9th grade), my book editor and tech pubs friends tell me that 2 spaces after the end of the sentence (whether it's ended by a period, full stop, exclamation point, or other punctuation :-)) is no longer the rule. I was quite surprised. I tend to do it anyway since it's the way I was taught. GZ From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri Jan 4 11:49:36 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Language and English Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146747D@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! From: Richard Erlacher ! ! It's never safe to open an attachment to an otherwise undefined email. ! ! I'd suspect only two or three on this list will be foolish ! enough to open ! this one. ! ! Dick Huh? What attachment? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From rhblakeman at kih.net Fri Jan 4 12:02:30 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146747D@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: The one that he had attached to his messages, ATTxxxx.DAT - it's a PGP signature from his last email. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of David Woyciesjes Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 11:50 AM To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org'; 'Richard Erlacher' Subject: RE: Language and English ! From: Richard Erlacher ! ! It's never safe to open an attachment to an otherwise undefined email. ! ! I'd suspect only two or three on this list will be foolish ! enough to open ! this one. ! ! Dick Huh? What attachment? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 12:11:35 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Language and English References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146747D@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <003b01c1954b$3f7061a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I don't know ... I didn't open it, but my reader says it has one. It could, of course, have been originated in Netscape, in which case it might or might not be readable. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Woyciesjes" To: ; "'Richard Erlacher'" Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 10:49 AM Subject: RE: Language and English > ! From: Richard Erlacher > ! > ! It's never safe to open an attachment to an otherwise undefined email. > ! > ! I'd suspect only two or three on this list will be foolish > ! enough to open > ! this one. > ! > ! Dick > > Huh? What attachment? > > --- David A Woyciesjes > --- C & IS Support Specialist > --- Yale University Press > --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu > --- (203) 432-0953 > --- ICQ # - 905818 > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 4 17:01:33 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: David Woyciesjes "RE: Language and English" (Jan 4, 12:49) References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146747D@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <10201042301.ZM17189@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 4, 12:49, David Woyciesjes wrote: > ! From: Richard Erlacher > ! > ! It's never safe to open an attachment to an otherwise undefined email. > ! > ! I'd suspect only two or three on this list will be foolish > ! enough to open > ! this one. > ! > ! Dick > > Huh? What attachment? I think Dick is referring to the fact that Dan's posts appear on many systems as an empty message with a single attachment of raw data. It's actually typed "multipart/signed", and it ought to appear as a text attachment (or a text main part) with an attached signature block, but on software that doesn't intrinsically understand multipart/signed (like mine, and apparently Dick's), it doesn't. Probably something to do with the fact that "multipart/signed" is not one of the original MIME types. Maybe Dan could turn off the PGP signature for the list? I thought we'd agreed that multipart posts were inappropriate, or was that just "multipart/alternative"? However, since it's correctly typed it would seem fairly safe to open -- especially for those of us using a Unix machine to read mail :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Jan 4 11:51:42 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Language and English Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E092@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Hans Franke [mailto:Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de] > Thank you very much. So it seams there is a 'school' forcing this in > the US .... and I always wondered why some people add two spaces after > a period. There's even a very old 'text beautyfier' for DOS which > inserted this (for my eyes) stupid spaces. Well, I guess CC is no > only the hardwarae :=) I think that it's supposed to help the eye differentiate between space between words and space between sentences. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 4 17:41:51 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: "Richard Erlacher" "Re: Language and English" (Jan 4, 11:45) References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E092@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> <005e01c1954f$fc41a4c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <10201042341.ZM17702@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 4, 11:45, Richard Erlacher wrote: > If the period took up as much space as another character, that would be > true, but with mail readers that perform kerning as though they were trying > to prepare text for publication, the period gets short-schrift, so to speak, > and often is nearly invisible. The practice of inserting two spaces was > inherited from the requirement for it in the printing/publishing industry. Actually, it has long been normal to use the same space between sentences as between words in printing. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From meltlet at fastmail.fm Fri Jan 4 12:20:07 2002 From: meltlet at fastmail.fm (melt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Language and English Message-ID: <20020104182007.44F9E39409E@fastmail.fm> > a period at the end of a sentence is followed by two spaces, for example. Ok, if we're going to be anal here, and criticise "English" then in English it's not a period, it's a full stop. *ducks to avoid flames ;D* Alex -- melt meltlet@fastmail.fm From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri Jan 4 12:30:16 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Language and English Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467480@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Hmmm.. okay. Well, my Outlook2001 (sorry, no choice at work) must've read it correctly, and not as an attachment... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Russ Blakeman [mailto:rhblakeman@kih.net] ! Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 1:03 PM ! To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org ! Subject: RE: Language and English ! ! ! The one that he had attached to his messages, ATTxxxx.DAT - it's a PGP ! signature from his last email. ! ! -----Original Message----- ! From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org ! [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of David Woyciesjes ! Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 11:50 AM ! To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org'; 'Richard Erlacher' ! Subject: RE: Language and English ! ! ! ! From: Richard Erlacher ! ! ! ! It's never safe to open an attachment to an otherwise ! undefined email. ! ! ! ! I'd suspect only two or three on this list will be foolish ! ! enough to open ! ! this one. ! ! ! ! Dick ! ! Huh? What attachment? ! ! --- David A Woyciesjes ! --- C & IS Support Specialist ! --- Yale University Press ! --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu ! --- (203) 432-0953 ! --- ICQ # - 905818 ! From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 12:56:52 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Language and English References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467480@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <008401c19551$925f6720$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> This is a common "feature" among NETSCAPE users' messages, though it can be fixed. One of the fellows with whom I commonly communicate used to do this all the time, but quit when he got a computer that came with IE4/Outlook Express on it. That's how we became aware of it as a Nestcape "feature" to work around. There are probably a few folks wondering why they've gotten a couple of empty messages, though, since not all readers obviously flag that an attachment is present. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Woyciesjes" To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 11:30 AM Subject: RE: Language and English > Hmmm.. okay. Well, my Outlook2001 (sorry, no choice at work) must've read it > correctly, and not as an attachment... > > --- David A Woyciesjes > --- C & IS Support Specialist > --- Yale University Press > --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu > --- (203) 432-0953 > --- ICQ # - 905818 > > > ! -----Original Message----- > ! From: Russ Blakeman [mailto:rhblakeman@kih.net] > ! Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 1:03 PM > ! To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > ! Subject: RE: Language and English > ! > ! > ! The one that he had attached to his messages, ATTxxxx.DAT - it's a PGP > ! signature from his last email. > ! > ! -----Original Message----- > ! From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > ! [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of David Woyciesjes > ! Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 11:50 AM > ! To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org'; 'Richard Erlacher' > ! Subject: RE: Language and English > ! > ! > ! ! From: Richard Erlacher > ! ! > ! ! It's never safe to open an attachment to an otherwise > ! undefined email. > ! ! > ! ! I'd suspect only two or three on this list will be foolish > ! ! enough to open > ! ! this one. > ! ! > ! ! Dick > ! > ! Huh? What attachment? > ! > ! --- David A Woyciesjes > ! --- C & IS Support Specialist > ! --- Yale University Press > ! --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu > ! --- (203) 432-0953 > ! --- ICQ # - 905818 > ! > > From mythtech at Mac.com Fri Jan 4 12:59:44 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Language and English Message-ID: > but I did learn that >a period at the end of a sentence is followed by two spaces, for example. This is actually a now outdated custom. I think it was originally there as old type presses has a small space character, so two were needed to make decent enough room to tell a sentence ended. I think it carried over to original typwriters, and then into early word processing... but now, it is outdated, and no longer taught (at least not by newer typing teachers... I bet the nuns at my wife's old highschool still teach two spaces). Of course, it could also have been dropped out of laziness, and just changed out of force from the new generation just not bothering with a 2nd space. (I think that is why standard office attire has relaxed so much too... new generation of bosses that don't take as much pride in their work appearance... not that I am one to talk, since I always wear jeans and a shirt to work except for days I have to meet with clients) >If you insist on writing in a style reminiscent of E. E. Cummings poetry Ugh.. try reading William Faulkner (I am pretty sure that is who it was)... he has 3 page run on sentences... worst reading my poor dyslexic brain ever had to deal with. -chris From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 13:32:45 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Language and English References: Message-ID: <00c601c19556$95e7b140$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The practice of putting two spaces after a period at the end of a sentence is from the printing/publishing industry. Linotype machines automatically justified their lines to a specific column width, but had a minimal space size. Since a period got very little space, the two spaces after it made certain there was a minimum of white space between sentences. It became a convention in typing classes, since much of what was to be printed in newspapers had to be typed first, back in those days. Because it helps people who read fast, as I do, to parse out the sentences when they're reading, the white space between sentences is necessary for rapid extraction of proper meaning. Much of the trouble with literacy among people having graduated from the present education system is that they can't read material and extract the meaning. ANYTHING that helps with that is important and not just a whim. ee cummings (I was reminded that he never used cap's, or punctuation, methinks, and freely formatted his verse.) wrote difficult-to-parse freeverse. I am not an afficionado of poetry, but, having had to complete, successfully, a class in modern literature as an undergraduate, I do remember that there was such a person and that he had a peculiar style. During the week or two when we studied T.S. Eliot, Playboy magazine featured a set of "college life" cartoons, one of which quoted the line, "Let us go, then, you and I, ..." which made that the only Eliot poem of which I remember anything at all. If you have problems reading some things, try to keep that in mind when you write. Others may have problems as well. Make it easy for them to see what you mean in what you write by taking a little extra care. It's important. Learn to do it well. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" To: "Classic Computer" Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 11:59 AM Subject: Re: Language and English > > but I did learn that > >a period at the end of a sentence is followed by two spaces, for example. > > This is actually a now outdated custom. I think it was originally there > as old type presses has a small space character, so two were needed to > make decent enough room to tell a sentence ended. I think it carried over > to original typwriters, and then into early word processing... but now, > it is outdated, and no longer taught (at least not by newer typing > teachers... I bet the nuns at my wife's old highschool still teach two > spaces). > > Of course, it could also have been dropped out of laziness, and just > changed out of force from the new generation just not bothering with a > 2nd space. (I think that is why standard office attire has relaxed so > much too... new generation of bosses that don't take as much pride in > their work appearance... not that I am one to talk, since I always wear > jeans and a shirt to work except for days I have to meet with clients) > > >If you insist on writing in a style reminiscent of E. E. Cummings poetry > > Ugh.. try reading William Faulkner (I am pretty sure that is who it > was)... he has 3 page run on sentences... worst reading my poor dyslexic > brain ever had to deal with. > > -chris > > > > From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 4 14:25:38 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: More off-topic spaz droolings...Re: Language and English In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Chris wrote: > This is actually a now outdated custom. I think it was originally > there as old type presses has a small space character, so two were > needed to make decent enough room to tell a sentence ended. I think it > carried over to original typwriters, and then into early word > processing... but now, it is outdated, and no longer taught (at least > not by newer typing teachers... I bet the nuns at my wife's old > highschool still teach two spaces). Haven't you ever considered that the reason it isn't taught anymore today is because the teachers who are now teaching didn't pay attention in school when THEY were being taught the standard? > Of course, it could also have been dropped out of laziness, and just > changed out of force from the new generation just not bothering with a > 2nd space. It's sort of like photocopying a photocopy. Each successive copy degenerates to the point where it's eventually just all black. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Jan 4 13:44:57 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: Language and English Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E097@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] > Let's be accurate here. cummings was a poet. The people > posting without > proper grammar and punctuation are not. Well, if you use the "modern" definition of poetry, sure they are. ;) ... and given the "modern" definition of art, the people who paint lines down the middle of the street are "artists." According to the "modern" definition of music, one can talk over top of some drum lines from Judas Priest's first album and be a wonderful "musician." Things are so much simpler now. Etc, etc. :) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 4 14:31:49 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: More worthless crap posted not worth reading...RE: Language and English In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E097@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > Well, if you use the "modern" definition of poetry, sure they are. ;) > > ... and given the "modern" definition of art, the people who paint > lines down the middle of the street are "artists." According to the > "modern" definition of music, one can talk over top of some drum lines > from Judas Priest's first album and be a wonderful "musician." > > Things are so much simpler now. It's a good thing this metaphor does not extend to "Modern Programmers". We'd all be out of work. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jan 4 15:18:28 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:10 2005 Subject: More worthless crap posted not worth reading...RE: Language and English In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > It's a good thing this metaphor does not extend to "Modern Programmers". > We'd all be out of work. How could you POSSIBLY pass up that opportunity for MICROS~1 bashing?? From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 4 14:44:52 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Language and English References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E097@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <3C361444.5B60769A@verizon.net> > Things are so much simpler now. Thank you. I actually chuckled over that one. Christopher Smith wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] > > > Let's be accurate here. cummings was a poet. The people > > posting without > > proper grammar and punctuation are not. > > Well, if you use the "modern" definition of poetry, sure they are. ;) > > ... and given the "modern" definition of art, the people who paint lines down the middle of the street are "artists." According to the "modern" definition of music, one can talk over top of some drum lines from Judas Priest's first album and be a wonderful "musician." > > Things are so much simpler now. > > Etc, etc. :) > > Regards, > > Chris > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Jan 4 14:30:55 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Language and English Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E099@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Ian Koller [mailto:vze2mnvr@verizon.net] > > English is a Germanic language, > That was my mistake. I have now learned something new, or > a misconception of mine has now been corrected. I thank you, > it will not be forgotten. Actually, to step in here, I'm certain that it depends on which "English" you're talking about. Of course old English and the original Anglo (Anglish?) languages that may have preceded it were Germanic. Modern English has been influenced as much by Latin as by the original English, IMO. > Now I will have to ponder why there are so many similarities > between French and Italian words and their English counterparts, > while to me the German language seems so much different. ... and there's your answer. Compare German to old English and you'd be surprised -- at least as surprised as you'd be to compare English to Spanish today. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Jan 4 14:59:00 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Language and English Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E09D@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: r. 'bear' stricklin [mailto:red@bears.org] > At the SCM prompt, type, "SHOW BOOT." > > At the SCM prompt, type, "SHOW BOOT". > > Which one is correct? Personally, I always try to move punctuation away from quoted commands, and the like. Otherwise I use the normal convention of leaving it inside the quotes. So both are "correct," but the second is what I would do to prevent confusion in this case. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From mythtech at Mac.com Fri Jan 4 16:59:04 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Language and English Message-ID: >If you have problems reading some things, try to keep that in mind when you >write. Others may have problems as well. Make it easy for them to see what >you mean in what you write by taking a little extra care. It's important. >Learn to do it well. I just think some people need to realize that sometimes, what you get is the best a person can do. I'm not defending a lack of use of punctuation or capitalization, or anything like that (re: the emails this thread is about... I agree they should have had better care taken when being written)... but with generally poor writing, particularly when you find the same person doing it over and over... you just have to accept that that MIGHT be the best they are capable of. And you might want to ease up a bit on them... since the bitching may very well be taken as a direct insult to their intelligence level... and is apt not to fix the problem, but rather cause a nasty conflict. I mean, how would some of you feel, if you asked about some unknown classic computer part, and were told "you must be some kind of dumb ass to not know what that is... anyone who has half a brain in their head would know this". But then, if your writing sucks because you are lazy... well, you should just be taken out and shot... or at least deserve to be insulted for it. Just my thoughts. And no, I myself have not been insulted by ANYTHING that has ever been said on this list, much less the recent discussions... including all the bashing I took over the crescent wrench incident... but then, I am think skinned (or was that think headed), and it takes far more than a bunch of emails to offend me (kick me in the nuts... I might be offended... call me a dumb ass... I am likely to agree with you) -chris From mythtech at Mac.com Fri Jan 4 17:23:38 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Language and English Message-ID: >Unfortunately, todays student doesn't have the tools he needs to cope with a >foreign language if he hasn't been taught basic sentence structure(subject, >verb, predicate nominative, predicate adjective, etc.) , spelling, and >grammar. What the hell is THIS based on? Certainly not reality. Any sentence structure and grammar I learned in English class was actually COUNTER PRODUCTIVE to me when trying to learn French that uses a totally different sentence structure. I was constantly confused when attempting to form a sentence in French, as I tried to speak it in English structure. I would have to conclude, that LACK of basic sentence structure knowledge in English will actually HELP a student learn other languages (including English in the long run, as their brain becomes programmed to a more open thought process towards language). I base this on my own difficulties in learning a foreign language... and on the absolute EASE with which my brother's 3 kids have learned Spanish and English by growing up in a bilingual house hold... as well as my cousin who was speaking fluent Italian and English by 3 (well, as fluent as a 3 yr old speaks any language), since he too grew up in a bilingual household. Add to it that the most common foreign language errors made by people that have basic fluency in multiple languages, is incorrect sentence structure... because they easily mix up what order things should be in for a given language. Nope... in reality, I think the LESS you know of a given language when attempting to learn additional ones, the better chance you have of learning the 2nd (or more) language. And for that reason, I feel foreign languages should be started at the grade school level, and NOT wait until high school (yes, I think learning multiple languages is very important... and should be required schooling, at least in the USA. With a stronger concentration on English since it is the "accepted" language of the USA... in other countries, YMMV, and the "base" language would obviously be the accepted language of the area) -chris From zaft at azstarnet.com Fri Jan 4 18:31:48 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020104172710.025707a0@mail.azstarnet.com> At 06:23 PM 1/4/2002 -0500, you wrote: >What the hell is THIS based on? Certainly not reality. Any sentence >structure and grammar I learned in English class was actually COUNTER >PRODUCTIVE to me when trying to learn French that uses a totally >different sentence structure. I was constantly confused when attempting >to form a sentence in French, as I tried to speak it in English structure. I have to strongly disagree. If you know what the PARTS are and what they mean (i.e. why is the subject, the subject, and why is the object, the object -- not just the names but what they really mean). That's not the same thing as just learning the way sentences are usually constructed in English. If you know what the building blocks are, then you can readily understand that in a particular language they are ordered differently. At least, it worked for me with French. >I would have to conclude, that LACK of basic sentence structure knowledge >in English will actually HELP a student learn other languages (including >English in the long run, as their brain becomes programmed to a more open >thought process towards language). I think the problem is that you weren't taught what those things meant, just how they were usually ordered. That's just a guess of course! >I base this on my own difficulties in learning a foreign language... and >on the absolute EASE with which my brother's 3 kids have learned Spanish >and English by growing up in a bilingual house hold... as well as my >cousin who was speaking fluent Italian and English by 3 (well, as fluent >as a 3 yr old speaks any language), since he too grew up in a bilingual >household. This is an entirely different question. Children are much readier at learning languages than teens or adults are. It is much, much easier to learn a language at 3 then 13, or 30. And of course, if you have to learn a wacky language like English you are very fortunate if you learn it as an infant since it will be much, much harder later. >Nope... in reality, I think the LESS you know of a given language when >attempting to learn additional ones, the better chance you have of >learning the 2nd (or more) language. And for that reason, I feel foreign >languages should be started at the grade school level, and NOT wait until >high school (yes, I think learning multiple languages is very >important... and should be required schooling, at least in the USA. With >a stronger concentration on English since it is the "accepted" language >of the USA... in other countries, YMMV, and the "base" language would >obviously be the accepted language of the area) I certainly agree that people should be required to learn at least one additional language. G From mythtech at Mac.com Fri Jan 4 17:31:21 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Language and English Message-ID: >It's all part of syntax and style, not grammar as you say. How many >people on this list ever turned in a paper where the teacher/professor >insisted on strict adherence to "Strunk and White"? Me Me Me... but ironically it was a "Creative Writing" class... so I scratched my head, flipped him the bird, and walked out to see the registrar's office about being moved to a different professor. -chris From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jan 4 07:50:05 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Hazing (was Re: Crescent wrenches ...) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225C8F@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On 04-Jan-02, Gordon C. Zaft wrote: > > At 10:04 PM 1/3/2002 -0800, Ron Hudson wrote: > > > >> A true navy story from my Navy days. > > > > When I was a Navy civil servant, every engineer who went out on > > his first ship qualification trial would get hazed. Usually it was being > > sent to get batteries for the sound-powered phones.... > > My favorite was always sending someone for a bucket of > steam....that or a snipe punch. Stud stretchers are popular with the contruction crowd... New pages to Congress are given important messages to give to Senator Cornpone... And to get this back on-topic, at IBM, new hires were sent to see Dr. Herman Hollerith to get the final answers on important questions. -dq From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 12:41:31 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Language and English References: <3C35F576.7204.E4571549@localhost> Message-ID: <005d01c1954f$fc201300$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'm not sure it ever was taught outside the typing class, since people writing by hand weren't conscious of leaving additional space at the end of a sentence, though they did it. The extra spaces make it easy to parse out the sentences. For those of us who need reading glasses, the extra gap helps avoid having to grope around for the maginfying glass. On some displays, the single-pixel period at the end of the sentence is hard to see. BTW, I gave Monica that KIM-2 and KIM-3 board pair for her to ship you. Please let me know when you have them. These are pretty rare boards, so I hope you get some enjoyment from them. I'd be interested to know whether they work OK after all these years. I don' t know whether they ever did work, of course. That on-board regulator (LM305 + pass transistor) is pretty ancient nowadays, but it fits right in with the mid-'70's (1975-76) design that this represents. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Franke" To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 10:33 AM Subject: Re: Language and English > > When I was in the 8th grade, one of the courses we were required to take was > > in typing. I've never gotten particularly good at it, but I did learn that > > a period at the end of a sentence is followed by two spaces, for example. > > Thank you very much. So it seams there is a 'school' forcing this in > the US .... and I always wondered why some people add two spaces after > a period. There's even a very old 'text beautyfier' for DOS which > inserted these (for my eyes) stupid spaces. Well, I guess CC is no > only the hardware :=) > > Gurss > H. > > -- > VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 12:45:30 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Language and English References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E092@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <005e01c1954f$fc41a4c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If the period took up as much space as another character, that would be true, but with mail readers that perform kerning as though they were trying to prepare text for publication, the period gets short-schrift, so to speak, and often is nearly invisible. The practice of inserting two spaces was inherited from the requirement for it in the printing/publishing industry. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Smith" To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 10:51 AM Subject: RE: Language and English > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Hans Franke [mailto:Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de] > > > Thank you very much. So it seams there is a 'school' forcing this in > > the US ... and I always wondered why some people add two spaces after > > a period. There's even a very old 'text beautifier' for DOS which > > inserted these (for my eyes) stupid spaces. Well, I guess CC is not > > only the hardware :=) > > I think that it's supposed to help the eye differentiate between space between words and space between sentences. > > Regards, > > Chris > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > > From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jan 4 19:35:44 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <005e01c1954f$fc41a4c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > From: "Christopher Smith" > > > From: Hans Franke [mailto:Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de] > > > > > Thank you very much. So it seams there is a 'school' forcing this in > > > the US ... and I always wondered why some people add two spaces after > > > a period. There's even a very old 'text beautifier' for DOS which > > > inserted these (for my eyes) stupid spaces. Well, I guess CC is not > > > only the hardware :=) > > > > I think that it's supposed to help the eye differentiate between space > > between words and space between sentences. > > If the period took up as much space as another character, that would > be true, but with mail readers that perform kerning as though they > were trying to prepare text for publication, the period gets > short-schrift, so to speak, and often is nearly invisible. I think this is mostly the by-product of GUI based mail readers and operating systems. I still use console/text based mail readers like pine and elm since they make text much easier to read when compared to the latest GUI mail readers. -Toth From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 13:54:57 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Language and English References: Message-ID: <00d801c19559$b0186020$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> That was my point, Sellam. You, of all people, being one of the better writers, whatever your opinions, in this forum, should recognize, then, that this is not the place to explore or fulfill one's need for self-expression through unconventional formatting. Most of the fellows who write here use the most widely accepted formats, avoiding HTML, for example, and try to be focused and to-the-point, if not always entirely on-topic, in their posts. This is not a place for "stream-of-consciousness" writing style, as has probably been pointed out repeatedly to those who insist on it. That is a style popular with, though wholly inappropriate for, a generation of youngsters with attention deficits and hyperactivity. It can give a guy whiplash trying to follow the mid-sentence changes in subject. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 12:14 PM Subject: Re: Language and English > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > If you insist on writing in a style reminiscent of E. E. Cummings > > poetry, you may find that your messages are read by readers of this > > forum with about the same frequency as E.E. Cummings' work, which > > might be a shame, in case you really do have something significant to > > contribute. or in case I'm the only one who doesn't read much > > Cummings. > > Let's be accurate here. cummings was a poet. The people posting without > proper grammar and punctuation are not. > > P.S. cummings' work is great > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jan 4 19:34:14 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: from Chris at "Jan 4, 2 06:23:38 pm" Message-ID: <200201050134.RAA10776@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >Unfortunately, todays student doesn't have the tools he needs to cope with a > >foreign language if he hasn't been taught basic sentence structure(subject, > >verb, predicate nominative, predicate adjective, etc.) , spelling, and > >grammar. > > What the hell is THIS based on? Certainly not reality. Any sentence > structure and grammar I learned in English class was actually COUNTER > PRODUCTIVE to me when trying to learn French that uses a totally > different sentence structure. I was constantly confused when attempting > to form a sentence in French, as I tried to speak it in English structure. > I would have to conclude, that LACK of basic sentence structure knowledge > in English will actually HELP a student learn other languages (including > English in the long run, as their brain becomes programmed to a more open > thought process towards language). As a guy with a degree in linguistics, I have to disagree with you. Word order != sentence structure. Certainly word order in English differs (and sometimes violently) from other languages -- German is another good example with how verbs move around, V2 structure, etc. Nevertheless, the components of a sentence are in fact universal. Every complete sentence in Swahili has a noun phrase and a verb phrase (you can think of this as subject and predicate if you like, although that's not necessarily true), just as in English. Every language has some idea of a subject. Every language has ideas of who did what to whom. While English grammar classes primarily aim to teach you the idiosyncracies of English, of which there are far too many, they also teach you the parts of English that are also universal to all languages, and this is inherently valuable. Moreover, it gets you used to the idea of learning the grammar of a language, even if the grammar of your next language is totally different. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- It's not illogical to believe in God. -------------------------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jan 4 19:40:46 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <10201042159.ZM17121@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from Pete Turnbull at "Jan 4, 2 09:59:02 pm" Message-ID: <200201050140.RAA26992@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Thank you very much. So it seams there is a 'school' forcing this in > > the US .... and I always wondered why some people add two spaces after > > a period. > It's a recognised standard in English. The idea is to make sentence spaces > larger than word spaces. Curiously, it's not common in the printing > profession, and not at all in other languages. I imagine Hans was taught > that it's "wrong", since I imagine he learned to type in German. I failed typing, but I don't think that's why I use just one space. :-) Nevertheless, my dad says I'm the fastest typist he knows, despite the fact my typing teacher got laryngitis yelling at me. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- He hadn't a single redeeming vice. -- Oscar Wilde -------------------------- From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jan 4 10:43:30 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: OT: A different view of a beloved hobby In-Reply-To: <61898.62.148.198.97.1010164660.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> References: <61898.62.148.198.97.1010164660.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: <02Jan4.125908est.119240@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >From the excellent news source known as The Reg : > >http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/30/23549.html You know, I tend to read the stuff on The Reg quite a bit but that has to be one of the funnier things they've printed lately.... Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Jan 4 11:31:54 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Way OT: Frost Heaves (was RE: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclatur e (was: NEXT Color Printer find Message-ID: Since ee cummings had been disparaged here, one could interpret the term as critical of a certain New England poet ;) -----Original Message----- From: David Woyciesjes [mailto:DAW@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu] Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 11:20 AM To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org'; Michael Nadeau; 'Ian Koller' Subject: RE: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find Well, a quick explanation of a frost heave... (from CT :-) Water seeps through a crack in the road, and gets trapped underneath. The water then freezes, and expands, which "heaves" the asphalt above it up into a bump. Whats worse is when the ice underneath melts, but the asphalt doesn't come back into shape quick enough. A vehicle hits the bump, and busts the bubble that's left. Now you have a pot-hole... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Ian Koller ! ! I'm here in snowed out South Eastern US and I know ! about "black ice" and "Bridge Freezes Before Roadway" ! but what are "Frost Heaves"? From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri Jan 4 12:04:37 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Way OT: Frost Heaves (was RE: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomencl atur e (was: NEXT Color Printer find Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146747E@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Aww geez, stretching things a bit here, aren't you? ;-) TGIF.... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Feldman, Robert [mailto:Robert_Feldman@jdedwards.com] ! ! Since ee cummings had been disparaged here, one could ! interpret the term as ! critical of a certain New England poet ;) ! ! -----Original Message----- ! From: David Woyciesjes [mailto:DAW@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu] ! ! ! Well, a quick explanation of a frost heave... (from CT :-) ! ! Water seeps through a crack in the road, and gets trapped ! underneath. The water then freezes, and expands, which ! "heaves" the asphalt ! above it up into a bump. ! Whats worse is when the ice underneath melts, but the asphalt ! doesn't come back into shape quick enough. A vehicle hits the ! bump, and ! busts the bubble that's left. Now you have a pot-hole... ! ! --- David A Woyciesjes ! ! ! -----Original Message----- ! ! From: Ian Koller ! ! ! ! I'm here in snowed out South Eastern US and I know ! ! about "black ice" and "Bridge Freezes Before Roadway" ! ! but what are "Frost Heaves"? ! ! From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 4 13:16:24 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: DEC bus driver/receiver chips (really VT78 docs) In-Reply-To: "Carlini, Antonio" "RE: DEC bus driver/receiver chips (really VT78 docs)" (Jan 4, 1:07) References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662DC@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> Message-ID: <10201041916.ZM17074@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 4, 1:07, Carlini, Antonio wrote: > Actually I only know of one other in the UK, > but I expect there are a few more lurking in > dark corners. I have a VT78. Is that the one you're thinking of? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri Jan 4 14:49:21 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Megabyte vs Mebibyte (was Re: Language and English) Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467482@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] ...... ! They should coin a new term for a fake Megabyte (i.e. ! something other than 1024 ^ 2). Call it a "Maybebyte". ! ! That wasn't funny. ! ! Sellam Ismail I thought it was. Or am I that weird? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jan 4 15:30:31 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Megabyte vs Mebibyte (was Re: Language and English) In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467482@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: > They should coin a new term for a fake Megabyte (i.e. > something other than 1024 ^ 2). Call it a "Maybebyte". > That wasn't funny. Yes it was. And I am now going to use that in some of my classes, when I explain what a Megabyte is. From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jan 4 17:14:14 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Megabyte vs Mebibyte (was Re: Language and English) In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467482@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467482@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: >! From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] >...... >! They should coin a new term for a fake Megabyte (i.e. >! something other than 1024 ^ 2). Call it a "Maybebyte". >! >! That wasn't funny. >! >! Sellam Ismail > >I thought it was. Or am I that weird? Maybebyte and Mebibyte aren't that much different sounding either Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From msell at ontimesupport.com Fri Jan 4 15:23:46 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Megabyte vs Mebibyte (was Re: Language and English) In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467482@yalepress3.unipre ss.yale.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020104151616.03002200@127.0.0.1> The guys on the Linux Kernel Mailing List are going wacko over this. Apparently somebody wanted to change all of the definitions of MB and GB, etc, etc, to use powers of ten, rather than the traditional binary notations. That really set off a firestorm of discussions.... - Matt At 03:49 PM 1/4/2002 -0500, you wrote: >! From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] >...... >! They should coin a new term for a fake Megabyte (i.e. >! something other than 1024 ^ 2). Call it a "Maybebyte". >! >! That wasn't funny. >! >! Sellam Ismail > >I thought it was. Or am I that weird? > > >--- David A Woyciesjes >--- C & IS Support Specialist >--- Yale University Press >--- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu >--- (203) 432-0953 >--- ICQ # - 905818 Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Jan 4 16:24:59 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Megabyte vs Mebibyte (was Re: Language and English) Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E0A3@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Chomko [mailto:vze2wsvr@verizon.net] > > It's especially egregious, because even IBM, who use > 1024000 for Megabyte > > for disks, uses 1048576 for memory. Thus, an IBM megabyte > of disk storage > > will not hold the content of an IBM megabyte of memory! > Seems like you have lots of energy on this Fred. 1000 1K > blocks. Is that a > reason > to fly off the handle? Well, you're right that he's probably a little too sensitive on this, but it is a stupid way to count a megabyte -- not even self-consistent. :) Personally I prefer the 1024*1024 method. It makes the most sense to me. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From macrecycle at earthlink.net Fri Jan 4 14:54:45 2002 From: macrecycle at earthlink.net (MacRecycleProject) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Drummers and SGI computers References: <200201042014.g04KEcL92983@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <028501c19562$0b0e3a60$8c00000a@mfpc> Wait just a cotton-pickin' minute there! What's all this biz about dissin' drummers? I'd have you know, like Buddy Rich said, "I am the band, mister." I figure 40 years of being a Slingerland drummer (www.slingerland.com) and Paiste cymbal player (www.paiste.com) driving swing and jazz (and an occasional rock group, when I'm not critical about the music *8^) earn me that right. And, for your information, drummers don't lose time; they reinterpret the chart, for crying out loud. Sheesh! Now, let's get back to computers. Still looking for SGI Indy at a good price; anybody got any ideas? R. P. Bell My friends call me "RB" ================= Mac Recycle Project Recycled Macintosh Computers and Services for Educational or Non-Profit Enterprises Email macrecycle@earthlink.net Internet URL www.networkwise.net (currently under development) From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Jan 4 15:01:06 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: More worthless crap posted not worth reading...RE: Language a nd English Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E09E@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > > Well, if you use the "modern" definition of poetry, sure > they are. ;) > > ... and given the "modern" definition of art, the people who paint > > lines down the middle of the street are "artists." According to the > > "modern" definition of music, one can talk over top of some [snip] > It's a good thing this metaphor does not extend to "Modern > Programmers". > We'd all be out of work. Ahh -- but it does. Have you seen the latest stock of MS "certified" monkeys? Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From auringer at tds.net Fri Jan 4 08:12:14 2002 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?) References: <3C309C9C.4020703@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <3C35B83E.C29C3D6E@tds.net> Hey Ron, Ron Hudson wrote: > I am not sure of the age of the board but > Adaptec seems to think it's not supportable > any more... :^( > > Anybody have DOS ASPI drivers for the > ADAPTEC AHA-1542CF?? I doesn't find anything if you search for 1542, but if you go to "Support" and then "SCSI host adapters" you will find the 1542CF listed under "ISA". http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/support/drivers_by_product.html?cat=/Product/AHA-1542CF Under latest downloads you will find: http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/support/driverdetail.html?cat=/Product/AHA-1542CF&filekey=dosdrvr.exe That should be what you are looking for. Later, Jon Jon Auringer auringer@tds.net From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 10:16:43 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?) References: <3C309C9C.4020703@cnonline.net> <3C35B83E.C29C3D6E@tds.net> Message-ID: <004701c1953b$a0abb060$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'm not certain about the "-CF" and "-CP" versions, but ISTR reading that ALL AHA154x adapters use the same drivers and utility set. In fact, my experience has been that ALL AHA-anythings use the same utility set. That's remarkably efficient, considering that the ADAPTEC folks have been doing this since the mid-80's, which is when I got my first AHA154x adapter. Has anybody got examples of anything that doesn't work that way with ADAPTEC's ASPI drivers (ASPI?DOS.SYS, ASPIDISK.SYS, ASPICD.SYS) and utilities (e.g. AFDISK, SCSIFMT, etc.) for DOS? Maybe that explains why ADAPTEC was able to swallow up all their competitors. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Auringer" To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 7:12 AM Subject: Re: Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?) > Hey Ron, > > Ron Hudson wrote: > > > I am not sure of the age of the board but > > Adaptec seems to think it's not supportable > > any more... :^( > > > > Anybody have DOS ASPI drivers for the > > ADAPTEC AHA-1542CF?? > > I doesn't find anything if you search for 1542, but if you go to > "Support" and then "SCSI host adapters" you will find the 1542CF listed > under "ISA". > > http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/support/drivers_by_product.html?cat=/Produc t/AHA-1542CF > > Under latest downloads you will find: > > http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/support/driverdetail.html?cat=/Product/AHA- 1542CF&filekey=dosdrvr.exe > > That should be what you are looking for. > > Later, > Jon > > Jon Auringer > auringer@tds.net > > From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Jan 4 17:44:10 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?) References: <3C309C9C.4020703@cnonline.net> <3C35B83E.C29C3D6E@tds.net> Message-ID: <3C363E4A.2080202@cnonline.net> Thanks all for your help. John sent the package of drivers to me. Now I can see my Syquest 44 and CDrom drive from DOS - cool. Thanks again everyone! From quapla at xs4all.nl Fri Jan 4 08:40:44 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Some pointers needed on a 11/70 References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662D4@exc-reo1> <11147.194.134.214.183.1010002110.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> <10201030019.ZM14991@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3C35BEEC.5A050014@xs4all.nl> Pete Turnbull wrote: > > On Jan 2, 21:08, wrote: > > > I'm sure there must be people on the list who know more about 11/70s than I > do, but since no-one else has replied yet... > Until know, you're the only one..... > Is the memory powered up and connected? At the right address (you must Yes, it is running, and all the leds are on, except one red led (battery power available?). There is 128KW of memory (in 2 64Kw boards) > have some memory in the lowest 28KW to start up)? Is the cache working? How do I know if the cache is working? > There are various things done by the power-up bootstrap diagnostic True, I have re-read the M9312, and at address 777644 is the diagnostics rom start address. When I load this address and then set 012 in the switch reg, for some moments it is blinking leds, and then lets the pause light on. There is no sensible address/error code shown at the console which should indicate a diag failure. > routines to set up the cache and memory system; and there are ways to > disable cache, Unibus map, certain errors, etc, by poking bits into control > registers. And I think you probably want to set the console Address Select > Switch to CONS(ole) PHYS(ical). The switches are on CONS PHYS and DATA PATH for the other one. > 17177760 is the "lower size register". Set it to the address of the last On the M8132 is a switchblock (1 of 3) which is - according to the doc- the lsw, I have set it to 1M, > addressable block of 32 words (ie offset by 6 bits). There's an upper size > register as well, "reserved for future use", read-only, reads as zeros, at > 17177762. > snip snip > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York Ed -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Kilometerheffing : De overheid '97 TL1000S | weet waar je bent geweest! From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Jan 4 11:02:04 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Wanted: Tiger Learning Computer In-Reply-To: References: <200111280657.WAA30550@opus.allegro.com> Message-ID: <3C35EE1C.30605.E43A5C70@localhost> > > Any ideas on how to identify it? There appear to be a number of toys > > called "Tiger Learning Computer", including one with a Barney theme :( > The only one I've ever seen in person is Hans Franke's. I forgot what > markings are on it but I think it was the only machine called the Tiger > Learning Computer. Maybe Hans can provide some visual clues. The description at http://applefritter.com/appleclones/tiger/ is altready quite good. As further distictions from other 'learning' computers there are: - no build in display - sleak (compared to the rest almost adault) design. - the cardridges are covered by a black plasic sheet - some cardridges have an apple copyright - of course the RAM Disk, says ProDOS, and one other says AppleWorks - a black and white sticker reading 'Apple Technology' and bearing a b/w apple icon > > > This is my biggest want currently. I guess you just remembered mine and wanted to top by owning at least a dozend :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Jan 4 11:12:49 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Movie making and distributed robotics (Was: Language and English ) Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E08B@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Golemancd@aol.com [mailto:Golemancd@aol.com] > i collect any computer i can get my hands on. You must have lots of room. I'm getting to the point where I have to refuse to take peesees in some cases (err -- sometimes, regardless of the case. ;). > i am developing an operating system and a multimedia program > to create movies. Are we talking about video editing, rendering, animation, SuperDuperMegaMultiCompoundApp, or what? > i use a newer computer to produce records. > i am also working out, as i was talking about > in the original thread that got off track, a distributed > os to control robots and also a custom computer > to do the same. Now, I can't particularly think of a situation in robotics that would require a distributed O/S. Usually it's general-purpose embedded systems at a maximum. What are you up to here? Or is it just distributed for cool factor? (Nothing wrong with that...) This part is likely to even be on topic ;) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 4 15:10:15 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: MCSE (was RE: More worthless crap posted not worth reading...RE: Language a nd English) In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E09E@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <20020104211015.5256.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> --- Christopher Smith wrote: > Ahh -- but it does. Have you seen the latest stock of MS "certified" > monkeys? MCSE - Must Call Someone Experienced -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jan 4 15:28:19 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: MCSE (was RE: More worthless crap posted not worth reading...RE: Language a nd English) In-Reply-To: <20020104211015.5256.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jan 04, 2002 01:10:15 PM Message-ID: <200201042128.g04LSJD07666@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > Ahh -- but it does. Have you seen the latest stock of MS "certified" > > monkeys? > > MCSE - Must Call Someone Experienced Minesweeper Consultant and Solitaire Expert -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From darek-ss at wp.pl Fri Jan 4 15:05:31 2002 From: darek-ss at wp.pl (Darek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: NCD 88k Boot monitor Message-ID: <3c36191b76c0b@wp.pl> Hi, I've got recently 2 old, but very good NCD Xstations 88k & 88kP6 based on Motorola 88100 processor. They are looking great, much better than what they are selling now :-) But unfortunately they are without Boot Manager EPROMS ... Does anyone could help me and tell where I can find such EPROM or just the image file which I can use to program one ? As far as I know BM from HMX & HMXPro doesn't work because it is made for R4xxx processor. Darek ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Zapro? znajomych na czata! Wy?lij SMSa z nowego czata WP! Czat.wp.pl - Jedyny czat z ludzk? twarz? < http://czat.wp.pl > From tom at sba.miami.edu Fri Jan 4 15:09:59 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: PDP-11 memory question Message-ID: I have a PDP 11/23 (M8186 CPU with floating point and MMU options) in a 4 slot BA11-MA box that at some point in its life was an 11/03. It had an M8044-DF 32k memory module, which I'm trying to replace with a 128k M8059-KJ. The system works fine with the 32k module, but won't do anything with the 128k module. I'm not familiar with PDP-11's, but it seems like my backplane is only 18-bit, while the new memory module is 22-bit. I've also read that the M8186 board is only 22-bit compatible after revision C. I can't find any mark on the board showing what revision it is. Is there another way to tell? Also, is possible to modify the 18-bit bus and make it 22-bit, or maybe by swapping out the backplane? I also noticed that on some used PDP-11 web sites that the BA11-M sells for much more than the BA11-S, which I thought had 5 more slots. Is there some reason for this? Thanks, Tom From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 4 15:35:20 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: PDP-11 memory question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020104213520.10304.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tom Leffingwell wrote: > > I have a PDP 11/23 (M8186 CPU with floating point and MMU options) > in a 4 slot BA11-MA box that at some point in its life was an 11/03. It > had an M8044-DF 32k memory module, which I'm trying to replace with a > 128k M8059-KJ. The system works fine with the 32k module, but won't do > anything with the 128k module. Have you checked the jumpers on the M8059? Where in memory does it think it is supposed to live? Even the M8044 has address jumpers. > I'm not familiar with PDP-11's, but it seems like my backplane is only > 18-bit, while the new memory module is 22-bit. Yes, I would expect that your backplane is 18-bit. It wouldn't matter, anyway - 18 bits is 256Kbytes (2^18 = 262,144) or 128Kwords. The 128K card will fill your memory space, but it should work on an 18-bit blackplane. You can also stuff 4 M8044 cards in there - 32Kwords each for a total of 128Kwords. > I've also read that the M8186 board is only 22-bit compatible after > revision C. I can't find any mark on the board showing what revision it > is. Is there another way to tell? Is it on the maroon handle? I don't think it's anything in the solder mask/copper; there might be an ink stamp with the revision or perhaps a sticker. If you can't tell in anyway, shape or form, perhaps you have a rev A. > Also, is possible to modify the 18-bit bus and make it 22-bit, or > maybe by swapping out the backplane? You can run the extra backplane wires. I have done it. Having done so, you may have to find a way to terminate them. Newer boxes are already Q22 and have bus termination built-in. Older backplanes depended on a termination card - the BDV-11 is one that is termination plus bootstrap ROMs. > I also noticed that on some used PDP-11 web sites that the BA11-M > sells for much more than the BA11-S, which I thought had 5 more slots. > Is there some reason for this? I forget the characteristics of each backplane type in the BA-11 series off the top of my head, but some of the 9-slot backplanes are all Qbus, some are 50% Qbus and 50% CD slots (with a board-to-board interconnect on the C and D fingers) which you need to use certain peripherals (the two- card RLV11 RL01/RL02 controller comes to mind immediately; the RLV12 is a Q22 controller on a single card). Different configurations, different features, different prices. Hope this clears things up. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 4 19:05:02 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: PDP-11 memory question In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Re: PDP-11 memory question" (Jan 4, 13:35) References: <20020104213520.10304.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10201050105.ZM17794@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 4, 13:35, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Tom Leffingwell wrote: > > > > I have a PDP 11/23 (M8186 CPU with floating point and MMU options) > > in a 4 slot BA11-MA box that at some point in its life was an 11/03. It > > had an M8044-DF 32k memory module, which I'm trying to replace with a > > 128k M8059-KJ. The system works fine with the 32k module, but won't do > > anything with the 128k module. > > Have you checked the jumpers on the M8059? Where in memory does it think > it is supposed to live? Even the M8044 has address jumpers. Two other things occur to me. The first is that memories like the MSV11-D (M8044) and MSV11-L (M8059) have jumpers to enable or disable memory that corresponds to the I/O page. This gets a little complicated... Most DEC memories decode the BBS7 signal to sense access to the I/O page and disable memory access accordingly. The MSV11-D has a jumper 1-2 to enable memory in the lower 2KW of the I/O page for systems that don't use the whole I/O space; jumper 2-3 (the factory setting) to disable memory in the whole top 4KW. The MSV11-L has a similar arangement, using jumpers 28-29 to enable the memory in the bottom half of the I/O page, and 27-28 to disable it. > > I'm not familiar with PDP-11's, but it seems like my backplane is only > > 18-bit, while the new memory module is 22-bit. > > Yes, I would expect that your backplane is 18-bit. It wouldn't matter, > anyway - 18 bits is 256Kbytes (2^18 = 262,144) or 128Kwords. The 128K > card will fill your memory space, but it should work on an 18-bit > blackplane. You can also stuff 4 M8044 cards in there - 32Kwords each > for a total of 128Kwords. And that's the second thing. The MSV11-L doesn't use BBS7 for everything it decodes, so you have to set it according to whether it's in a 22-bit system or an 18-bit system. If there's a jumper from R-T, it's set for a 2MW system. Remove it for 128KW systems. It's also a parity memory, unlike the MSV11-D, and furthermore it has it's own on-board parity control and reporting register. I don't think that would stop it working if not set up, though. If you want to check the parity jumper settings, the factory default is 9-10 out, 10-11 in, 18-19 out and 19-20 in (to enable parity); 1-2 in and 2-3 out (to enable register reporting); 6-7 in and 7-8 out (necessary to disable wrong-parity writing which is used for testing); F-H in and J-H out (to enable the CSR for parity setting/reporting rather than other methods). There are also jumpers to enable/disable half the board. Normal settings are 32-33 out and 33-34 in for a fully-populated board (reverse for half-populated) and 15-16 in and 16-17 out (the reverse disables the lower bank, used if part of the bank fails). Most of the remaining jumpers set the starting address. For a starting address of zero, you want pins P,N,M,L disconnected, and pins V,W,X,Y,Z disconnected (the addressing is done in two parts). To change the address to something other than zero, you would connect one or more of these pins to pin K (ground). > > I've also read that the M8186 board is only 22-bit compatible after > > revision C. I can't find any mark on the board showing what revision it > > is. Is there another way to tell? > > Is it on the maroon handle? I don't think it's anything in the solder > mask/copper; there might be an ink stamp with the revision or perhaps a > sticker. If you can't tell in anyway, shape or form, perhaps you have > a rev A. Quick check is to hold the board with handles at the top/contacts at the bottom, and look for a metal jumper (W18) about an inch below the handles, about halfway between them, and above a diode jumpered with a red wire. If it's there, it's a Rev.A. > > Also, is possible to modify the 18-bit bus and make it 22-bit, or > > maybe by swapping out the backplane? > > You can run the extra backplane wires. I have done it. Having done so, > you may have to find a way to terminate them. Newer boxes are already Q22 > and have bus termination built-in. Older backplanes depended on a > termination card - the BDV-11 is one that is termination plus bootstrap > ROMs. I've done it too. A standard BDV11 doesn't terminate the upper 4 address lines, but there's an ECO (ECO 005?) to fix that. It consists of adding 4 short wires from the contact fingers to termination resistors that are otherwise unused. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jrengdahl at safeaccess.com Fri Jan 4 16:40:39 2002 From: jrengdahl at safeaccess.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: PDP-11 memory question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <043701c19570$d571b800$e3c89782@ra.rockwell.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tom Leffingwell > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 4:10 PM > ... > my backplane is only 18-bit, while the new memory module is 22-bit. I've > also read that the M8186 board is only 22-bit compatible after revision > C. I can't find any mark on the board showing what revision it is. Is > there another way to tell? > This link: http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware /micronotes/numerical/micronote17.txt explains the rev history of the KDF11-A (M8186) and shows how to identify each rev. -- Jonathan Engdahl???????????????? Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer????? 1 Allen-Bradley Drive Advanced Technology????????????? Mayfield Heights, OH 44124, USA Mayfield Heights Labs??????????? jrengdahl@safeaccess.com 440-646-7326 http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/PDP-11.htm From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Jan 4 15:35:57 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: <3C35DCD3.B957623E@verizon.net> Message-ID: <3C35CBDD.29180.431A8A7@localhost> Asphalt when subjected to low temperatures will buckle when temperatures get milder. Likely the reason most main roads out here on the Canadian prairies are laid in cement slabs with a space between them. Lawrence > > > I'm here in snowed out South Eastern US and I know > about "black ice" and "Bridge Freezes Before Roadway" > but what are "Frost Heaves"? > > I could have done without this snow. I needed to make > a trip down to GA and possibly FLA that has to be delayed. > > > > > Michael Nadeau wrote: > > > > Wait til they find out about frost heaves. > > > > > > > > > > Odd that you should mention this ... > > > > > > > > As they've reccently had snow in the southern U.S, where that's a > > noteable > > > > and rare event, youngsters interviewed DO refer to the thing as a "snow" > > > > sled, apparently because snow is such a rarity. > > > > > > HA... And they are *just* learning about the phenomenon known as "black > > ice". > > > :-D > > > > > > Bryan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dick > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Matt London" > > > > To: "'ClassicComputers'" > > > > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:10 AM > > > > Subject: Re: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color > > Printer > > > > find > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > Whoa, can't let that one by: we know what a snowmobile is up here > > > > (c'mon, > > > > > > fellow Canucks, back me up on this one!); mind you, if you asked ME > > what > > > > > > Yes, as a fellow Canuck, I know what a snowmobile is... In the town of > > 9,500 > > > where I grew up, as soon as there was 3 to 6 cm of snow, everyone would be > > > on their skidoo's. > > > > > > > > > > > > a snowmobile is, I would indeed look at ya kind of funny (oops, > > funnily, > > > > for > > > > > > the language police), since apparently YOU don't know what it is or > > you > > > > > > wouldn't be asking... > > > > > > > > > > > > But a snow sled??? Who calls it that? Sounds like the SkiDoo > > trailer. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, one of us invented the thing, so we can call it what we > > like! > > > > > > > > > > Just a second! What's this I see... > > > > > From: M H Stein > > > > > A Canuck wuth a usa.net email address? Something screwy there if you > > ask > > > > > me, but then again I'm one of those dodgy brits :&) > > > > > > > > > > -- Matt > > > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri Jan 4 15:57:16 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467483@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> I can't wait to get up to the in-laws vacation house in central VT to do some riding!!! --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Lawrence Walker [mailto:lgwalker@mts.net] ! Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 4:36 PM ! To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org ! Subject: Re: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color ! Printer find ! ! ! Well where I'm living now is prime snowmobile territory. ! They're as obligatory ! as pick-up trucks and more common than motorcycles. When I ! grew up out ! here in the 40's the multi-passenger ones were called ! "Bombadeers" from ! the name of the company who made them, Bombardier, and who later ! introduced "Ski-Doos" the motorcycle of snowmobiles. I was ! surprised to find ! when I returned that locals still call the larger models Bombadeers. ! ! Lawrence ! ! > Whoa, can't let that one by: we know what a snowmobile is ! up here (c'mon, ! > fellow Canucks, back me up on this one!); mind you, if you ! asked ME what ! > a snowmobile is, I would indeed look at ya kind of funny ! (oops, funnily, for the ! > language police), since apparently YOU don't know what it ! is or you wouldn't be ! > asking... ! > ! > But a snow sled??? Who calls it that? Sounds like the ! SkiDoo trailer. ! > ! > Anyway, one of us invented the thing, so we can call it ! what we like! ! > ! > So there! ! > ! > :) ! > ! > -----------------Original Message------------------ ! > From: Roger Merchberger ! > ! > [snippage] ! > ! > [more snippage (pronounced snippahdge up here, not snippedge :)] ! > ! > And as it's winter, and we *finally* have snow here, talk ! to some Western ! > Ontario Canadians and ask them what a "snowmobile" or "snow ! sled" is - ! > they'll most likely look at you funny, at least for a few ! seconds until it sinks ! > in. They go "skidooing" in the wintertime. ! > ! > ! ! ! ! Reply to: ! lgwalker@mts.net ! From wlewis at mailbag.com Fri Jan 4 15:37:39 2002 From: wlewis at mailbag.com (wlewis@mailbag.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Ultirix for Vaxstation 4000/90? Message-ID: <200201042137.g04LbeD20526@mailbag.com> I'm probably going to pickup one of these in the near future, and while I run VMS on my 4000/VLC, I would like to to run a *nix on on this one. Since NetBSD and company don't have a working X server, that limits things a bit. Anyone have a copy they'd be willing to sell? Thanks, William From pcw at mesanet.com Fri Jan 4 15:58:33 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Ultirix for Vaxstation 4000/90? In-Reply-To: <200201042137.g04LbeD20526@mailbag.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 wlewis@mailbag.com wrote: > I'm probably going to pickup one of these in the near future, and while I run > VMS on my 4000/VLC, I would like to to run a *nix on on this one. Since NetBSD > and company don't have a working X server, that limits things a bit. > > Anyone have a copy they'd be willing to sell? Wont help since Ultrix never ran on VS4000's... > > Thanks, > > William > > > > Peter Wallace From kentborg at borg.org Fri Jan 4 16:08:15 2002 From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Compenents Source? Message-ID: <20020104170815.H4395@borg.org> In olden days I would go to Radio Shack, but that doesn't work anymore, so I though I would ask here. Anyone know where I could find a small, cheap, low power, amplified, battery powered speaker? Back when I would have bought a "telephone amplifier", but in 2002 I can't immedaitely find such a thing. Thanks, -kb, the Kent who is thinking he might need to buy something like a portable radio (do they still exist?) and hack it. From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Jan 4 16:52:52 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Compenents Source? Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E0A4@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Something like these? http://www.smokeyamps.com/popups/smokeypop.htm They sell for about $25. 1/4" headphone in/out plugs, and they last quite a while on a 9-volt. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' > -----Original Message----- > From: Kent Borg [mailto:kentborg@borg.org] > In olden days I would go to Radio Shack, but that doesn't work > anymore, so I though I would ask here. > Anyone know where I could find a small, cheap, low power, amplified, > battery powered speaker? Back when I would have bought a "telephone > amplifier", but in 2002 I can't immedaitely find such a thing. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 4 19:00:15 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: Compenents Source? In-Reply-To: <20020104170815.H4395@borg.org> from "Kent Borg" at Jan 4, 2 05:08:15 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2342 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020105/13e8a6d6/attachment.ksh From meltlet at fastmail.fm Fri Jan 4 16:10:41 2002 From: meltlet at fastmail.fm (melt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: DECstation hardware guide Message-ID: <20020104221041.E627B394047@fastmail.fm> Hello, does anyone know of a copy of the DECStation 3100 hardware guide (or whatever it is called) available online? Also, does anyone have a handle on a URL for a piccie of the backside of one of these beasts? Thanks for listening Alex -- melt meltlet@fastmail.fm From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 4 17:17:56 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:11 2005 Subject: DECstation hardware guide In-Reply-To: <20020104221041.E627B394047@fastmail.fm> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, melt wrote: > Hello, does anyone know of a copy of the DECStation 3100 hardware guide > (or whatever it is called) available online? Also, does anyone have a > handle on a URL for a piccie of the backside of one of these beasts? I just got handed a 3100 system board, so I'm looking too. I can tell you that the backside of the board itself looks almost exactly like a vaxstation 3100, the exception being that the decstation doesn't have the "S3" switch; graphics or serial output. Looks like it fits in a VS3100 box too, as long as you don't want any internal drives. For a detailed description of the ports, go to: http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/vax/vs3khw.html Anyone got a handful o' ram for it? Doc From pcw at mesanet.com Fri Jan 4 17:41:51 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: DECstation hardware guide In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, melt wrote: > > > Hello, does anyone know of a copy of the DECStation 3100 hardware guide > > (or whatever it is called) available online? Also, does anyone have a > > handle on a URL for a piccie of the backside of one of these beasts? > > I just got handed a 3100 system board, so I'm looking too. I can tell > you that the backside of the board itself looks almost exactly like a > vaxstation 3100, the exception being that the decstation doesn't have > the "S3" switch; graphics or serial output. Looks like it fits in a > VS3100 box too, as long as you don't want any internal drives. For a > detailed description of the ports, go to: > > http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/vax/vs3khw.html > > Anyone got a handful o' ram for it? > > Doc > > several handfulls, maybe even shovelfulls... 3100's take 12 simms max for 24 M total Peter Wallace From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 4 18:39:23 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: DECstation hardware guide In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > Anyone got a handful o' ram for it? > > > > Doc > several handfulls, maybe even shovelfulls... > > > 3100's take 12 simms max for 24 M total So what'cha want for it? I got a lot more toys than cash.... Some RS/6000 MCA stuff, some Sparc sbus doohickeys and a mouse or 3, with optical pads, lotsa late-ISA/early-PCI PC stuff. I got 4Mb parity SIMMs, 72-pin, out the wazoo. Or a PowerBook 145B, sans battery, but with charger brick. Or.... Doc From Colorfulfag at aol.com Fri Jan 4 18:49:51 2002 From: Colorfulfag at aol.com (Colorfulfag@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: DECstation hardware guide Message-ID: <164.6a6600a.2967a7b0@aol.com> In a message dated Fri, 4 Jan 2002 7:42:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, Doc writes: > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > > > Anyone got a handful o' ram for it? > > > > > > Doc > > > several handfulls, maybe even shovelfulls... > > > > > > 3100's take 12 simms max for 24 M total > > So what'cha want for it? I got a lot more toys than cash.... Some > RS/6000 MCA stuff, some Sparc sbus doohickeys and a mouse or 3, with > optical pads, lotsa late-ISA/early-PCI PC stuff. I got 4Mb parity > SIMMs, 72-pin, out the wazoo. Or a PowerBook 145B, sans battery, but > with charger brick. Or.... > > Doc I would love to get some ram for these as well.. I happen to have a *few* spare 3100'ds with no ram in them. -Linc. From pcw at mesanet.com Fri Jan 4 19:07:31 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: DECstation hardware guide In-Reply-To: <164.6a6600a.2967a7b0@aol.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 Colorfulfag@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated Fri, 4 Jan 2002 7:42:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, Doc writes: > > > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > > > > > Anyone got a handful o' ram for it? > > > > > > > > Doc > > > > > several handfulls, maybe even shovelfulls... > > > > > > > > > 3100's take 12 simms max for 24 M total > > > > So what'cha want for it? I got a lot more toys than cash.... Some > > RS/6000 MCA stuff, some Sparc sbus doohickeys and a mouse or 3, with > > optical pads, lotsa late-ISA/early-PCI PC stuff. I got 4Mb parity > > SIMMs, 72-pin, out the wazoo. Or a PowerBook 145B, sans battery, but > > with charger brick. Or.... > > > > Doc > > I would love to get some ram for these as well.. I happen to have a > *few* spare 3100'ds with no ram in them. > > -Linc. > > How many do you need? shipping should be minimal Peter Wallace From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 4 16:52:07 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: VAX 6400 booting saga: how to transfer binaries to VMS with kermit? In-Reply-To: <00ff01c18200$8d682c70$de2c67cb@helpdesk> Message-ID: <20020104225207.16941.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> --- Geoff Roberts wrote: > > but no matter what I do, the file will never work as an > > executable on the VAX. It always complains about a corrupt > > descriptor block and it comes up too long. The file is > > exactly 2048 bytes long and when I send it it comes up as > > 5/6 blocks with DIR/SIZE=ALL. That is one block too many, > > isn't it? > > I have SET FILE TYPE BINARY on both sides. How about SET FILE TYPE FIXED ? When I used to migrate things around lots, I tended to use ZIP.EXE once it was available (post 1987). We also used to use a program called BACKPACK (I think) that rendered RMS files into an ASCII form akin to UUENCODING, but that could be properly reconstituted into any sort of VMS file including OLBs and EXEs, etc. (we used it to send updates to our customers). Depending on how bare your VAX is, you might try to migrate things wrapped, not plain. Dunno if you have any wrapping/unwrapping tools for VMS yet. If not, it's high on the list of things to get. Absolutely worst case, you could probably write a UUDECODE in DCL. :-P -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jan 4 17:02:46 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: RFD: SPAM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > Y'all, > I've had this email account for a while, and never been particularly > reticent about using or giving out the address. I've seen an > unbelievable increase in incoming spam since I joined this list. Yes, > I'm familiar with procmail filtering, and am about to start that, but > I'm curious as to why this list in particular attracts so much garbage. > I've seen a couple of other references to this, so I don't think I'm out > on a limb here. I've only gotten 2 spams *total* last year, and they came right after I started posting here. After tracking down the spammer and making a few phone calls, I don't think I'll ever see spam from him again. I don't think he harvested the addresses here, but I'll never know for sure. > What's going on, and is there a reasonable deterrent? Well, about the only thing I've found that seems to deter spammers is being aggressive with them. Phone calls and faxes to companies they do business with and work for seem to work wonders. -Toth From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 4 17:43:13 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: RFD: SPAM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > Well, about the only thing I've found that seems to deter spammers is > being aggressive with them. Phone calls and faxes to companies they do > business with and work for seem to work wonders. Well, it looks like the relationship between subscribing to this list and the wave of spam was simply coincidental. I do use agressive means to discourage repeat performances, but I'll admit the latest wave of character-based asian crap has me stumped. Doc From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 4 18:21:14 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: RFD: SPAM In-Reply-To: Doc "Re: RFD: SPAM" (Jan 4, 17:43) References: Message-ID: <10201050021.ZM17771@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 4, 17:43, Doc wrote: > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > Well, about the only thing I've found that seems to deter spammers is > > being aggressive with them. Phone calls and faxes to companies they do > > business with and work for seem to work wonders. > > Well, it looks like the relationship between subscribing to this list > and the wave of spam was simply coincidental. I do use agressive means > to discourage repeat performances, but I'll admit the latest wave of > character-based asian crap has me stumped. I don't know for sure that it's the list, but I only use this email address for private mail and this list. I never use it in other obvious places that would attract spam, such as Usenet, yet I seem to get a little flurry of extra spam every so often, corresponding to shortly after I post something here. I'm convinced there's some relationship. Quite how to reconcile that with the fact that other people who post here never seem to have a problem, I don't know. I've learned to live with it. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From donm at cts.com Fri Jan 4 17:21:47 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: <3C35FB53.73AF7D00@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote: > > > Dick, > > I don't use a spell checker, because, quite frankly, > it is an extremely rare event that I misspell a word. > > Now, which word is it that I misspelled that makes you > say this? How about definitely? - don > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > Apparently, you and he use the same spell-checker. > > > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ian Koller" > > To: ; "Merle K. Peirce" ; > > > > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 9:37 AM > > Subject: Re: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment > > > > > > > > > > > > He's a lazy communicator and is getting slapped around for it. > > > > > > His "style" was definately different than the "norm" for > > > this list. And he might have received better responses > > > if he had followed the old adage of "When in Rome, do as the From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 4 17:25:05 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: <04C42538-010A-11D6-B22B-003065ED7126@earthlink.net> from "bill pointon" at Jan 4, 2 06:55:59 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2879 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020104/6e1be361/attachment.ksh From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 4 19:16:59 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > compiler, and that program doesn't comply with it. However, if I got errors > compiling this program : > #include int main (int argc, char **argv) { printf("hello world\n); exit(0); } It might simply mean you missed a closing double-quote.... Sorry, but I couldn't resist. Doc From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 4 17:58:38 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: <3C35DA47.6B39B8F5@verizon.net> from "Ian Koller" at Jan 4, 2 11:37:27 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1160 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020104/37a08cbe/attachment.ksh From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jan 4 18:20:53 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: <3C3584AA.53081124@verizon.net> Message-ID: Not being a native English speaker, I had great difficulty making sense of what he was saying. Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote: > Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 05:32:10 -0500 > From: Ian Koller > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org, Golemancd@aol.com > Subject: Re: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment > > > > You all are terrible. It seems like he really made > everyone's day by providing something new to bitch > about. Personally, I understood what he had written > with no undue level of extra effort required. > > I'm not a religious person, but have always remembered > ( though not word for word ) a couple of quotes. > > Let he who is without sin cast the first stone? > > Judge not, lest ye be judged ( or something like that )? > > Everyone in this world may not have had the level of > opportunity ( in education, employment, etc. ) that > many of you have had. Before coming down on him so hard, > I would at least be willing to consider "his story"? > > > > Gene Buckle wrote: > > > > > ^ > > > I > > > > > > > joee > > > ^ > > > J > > > > > > > P.S i hope the grammer helps you understand this. > > > ^ ^^^^^^^ > > > > > > I grammar > > > > > > Overall grade: D+ > > > > > > > You forgot the full grade reduction as a penalty for being a patron of > > AOL. F+. > > > > g. > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 4 18:21:25 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: Ian Koller "Re: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment" (Jan 4, 13:58) References: <3C35DA47.6B39B8F5@verizon.net> <000d01c19544$1a430880$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3C35FB53.73AF7D00@verizon.net> Message-ID: <10201050021.ZM17779@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 4, 13:58, Ian Koller wrote: > > > Dick, > > I don't use a spell checker, because, quite frankly, > it is an extremely rare event that I misspell a word. > > Now, which word is it that I misspelled that makes you > say this? definately -> definitely > > > His "style" was definately different than the "norm" for -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jan 4 18:23:35 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: <04C42538-010A-11D6-B22B-003065ED7126@earthlink.net> Message-ID: There's a point in there: form follows function. FUNCTION. I could *not* understand the original message. Period. Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, bill pointon wrote: > Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 06:55:59 -0500 > From: bill pointon > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment > > this is not a reply to any particular message but to the thread as a > whole -- you sound like a bunch of old-fashioned high school english > teachers -- i mean come on people - form follows function - or at least > it has for the last 30 years since marshal mcluhan - if you cant > understand someones post without consulting a thesaurus grammarian and > lexicon of the english language is it worth a diatribe -- i tend to > ignore capitalization and punctuation also - save for the generic > pause -- and if you cant decipher my messages is it perhaps because of a > failure in the reader rather than the writer ? i really dont care ---- > and no offense meant where not taken voluntarily -- billp > > ps -- i am not a warez dood - dont own a cell phone - and have never > instant messaged anyone > > On Thursday, January 3, 2002, at 07:56 PM, Tony Duell wrote: > > >> > >> > >> > >> It's not that people here are snooty and require proper English to > >> post to > >> the list, it's just that run-on sentences with improper grammar and no > >> punctuation and capitalization is a real pain in the ass to read. > > > > Well, personally I don't normally comment on spelling/ grammar/ > > punctuation. Particularly since English is not the first language of > > some > > people on this list. > > > > I only comment when there's likely to be technical confusion (as with > > the > > 'Centronics' connectors). > > > >> > >> It also makes the reader assume (sometimes wrongly...) that the person > >> posting the message is a complete idiot, and advice, suggestions, and > >> answers will not be understood when given. This is a technical group, > >> and > > > > Most of the regulars here will hopefully confirm that I am fairly 'free' > > with techanical information. I don't mind digging out databooks or > > schematics, etc. I don't mind doing a few back-of-the-envelope > > calculations. > > > > But if I would have to spend significant time deciphering your message > > to > > work out just what you were asking for, well, I am not likely to do > > that. > > Instead I'll just ignore it. > > > >> God knows my English isn't perfect...... : ) > >> > > > > Nor is mine.... > > > > -tony > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 19:07:52 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment References: <3C35DA47.6B39B8F5@verizon.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20020104132105.0259c5d8@mail.azstarnet.com> <3C34F4F3.3C082D75@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <004e01c19585$66bf8120$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Many printer makers still have WIn3.1 drivers, and, by now, ones that work, on their web sites. My Win3.1x drivers for the OKI OL1200 printer, for example, work OK under '98. I did install the later drivers for WIn9x. I don't see a significant advantage, however. You will also need the Win3.1x installation diskettes if there's no printer already installed. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Franchuk" To: Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 5:18 PM Subject: Re: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment > Gordon Zaft wrote: > > > > (/petpeevemode ON) > > > > At 10:20 AM 1/4/2002 -0700, you wrote: > > >Apparently, you and he use the same spell-checker. > > > > SPELLING checker. A spell-checker is for witches. > > > > (/petpeevemode OFF) > > > > GZ > > No a SPELL-CHECKER! It takes BLACK MAGIC to get my computer > to run certain DEMON - possessed software. :) > > Some times I wish I had a grammar checker as I often have to rush > off a reply to something. While it is important have a good writing > style it is more important to have something useful to say. Lets drop > English, Middle English or even OLD English for now and get back to > classic computers. > A friend has got a 'free' computer with win 3.1 but no printer or > software > disks. Having found a 'free' printer how would be the best way to > install > printer drivers for the old computer? > > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > > From zaft at azstarnet.com Fri Jan 4 19:17:57 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: References: <04C42538-010A-11D6-B22B-003065ED7126@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020104181708.02566258@mail.azstarnet.com> At 11:25 PM 1/4/2002 +0000, you wrote: >#include >int main (int argc, char **argv) > { > printf("hello world\n); > exit(0); > } You're missing a ". Sorry, couldn't resist :-):-). GZ From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Jan 4 17:27:04 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: FreeVMS References: Message-ID: <3C363A48.9060505@cnonline.net> Merle K. Peirce wrote: > If it doesn't have wheels, it isn't really a computer. oh good!!! my celeron linux server *has* wheels :^) From msell at ontimesupport.com Fri Jan 4 17:38:55 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <200201042227.g04MRQp98147@bg-tc-ppp122.monmouth.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020104133352.03291170@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020104173539.023d2740@127.0.0.1> Too difficult - compared to what? I'm approaching this idea from a position of ignorance. That gives me a better shot at it. Maybe - maybe not. But I *will* learn quite a bit regarding kernel design. That can't be bad - even if the idea doesn't go anywhere. I personally think the attempt would be a lot more beneficial than anything else. Just mucking around with the NetBSD kernel would be very interesting...... - Matt >VMS's best hope is being sold to a third party. >FreeVMS is probably a good idea. > >I bet it's too difficult to implement on top of a Unix kernel, though. > >Bill Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 4 17:34:30 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: Any AMIGA users? In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E085@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> from "Christopher Smith" at Jan 4, 2 09:48:23 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 934 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020104/1c9201e1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 4 17:52:24 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: Man alive, I just can't resist In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E088@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> from "Christopher Smith" at Jan 4, 2 10:24:24 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 508 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020104/6e766536/attachment.ksh From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jan 4 17:54:10 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3200SX Question In-Reply-To: <157.6c1d72b.29675901@aol.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 CLeyson@aol.com wrote: > Thanks for the advice. Found the battery, or rather what's left of it. > Whatever it is that leaks or gasses out of Lithium batteries has eaten > into most of the steelwork. I will have to replace the floppy drive > and clean up metalwork. :-( Are you sure it's a Lithium battery? I think most of these used NiCads, and recharged them when they were powered. You can remove NiCad leftovers from the boards/parts with vinegar after removing the battery. You need to remove all traces of vinegar once you are done, otherwise it will damage copper traces and other metals. I apply a paste mixture of baking soda and water after rinsing the vinegar off, and work over the area with a small plastic brush. The baking soda will neutralize any remaining vinegar, and seems to be just abrasive enough to clean off most of the corrosion without further damaging the copper traces. After a mild scrubbing, I rinse the baking soda off with a kitchen sprayer, and run the board through the dishwasher. Not all boards can or should be washed in the dishwasher, however. This process also works for alkaline batteries, since the NiCad mess is also a strong alkaline. I number of the boards I repaired after the Houston floods had damage from the Lithium coin cells around the holders. It was an dark orange-red color and didn't seem to be highly alkaline or acidic. A thorough cleaning with baking soda and a plastic brush seemed to get rid of this stuff. -Toth From mgortych at ntplx.com Fri Jan 4 18:55:34 2002 From: mgortych at ntplx.com (Mike Gortych) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: HP2000 available for login yet? Message-ID: <001401c19583$af333e30$0314a8c0@jupiter2> Saw some posts back in August that Jay got his 2000 up and running, just wondering if it was available to for a guest to login and reminisce. Thanks! Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020104/f740deb9/attachment.html From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 4 19:28:36 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: More off-topic drivel: Re: Language and English In-Reply-To: "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" "Re: More off-topic drivel: Re: Language and English" (Jan 4, 19:34) References: <200201050034.TAA08499@conman.org> Message-ID: <10201050128.ZM17877@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 4, 19:34, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > A Plan for the Improvement of English Spelling > by Mark Twain It is wonderful, although it's not by Mark Twain, but by M.J. Shields in a letter to The Economist. It was in response to George Bernard Shaw's suggestions to reform the English alphabet by adding 14 letters to eliminate spelling anomalies. Another wonder in the same vein is to be found at http://www.d.kth.se/~d92-abj/humor/spelling_reform.html. It concludes: Kontinuing cis proses, ier after ier, we would eventuali hav a reali sensibl writen langug. By 1975, wi ventyur tu sei, cer wud bi no mor uv ces teribli trublsum difikultis, wic no tu leters usd to indikeit ce seim nois, and laikwais no tui noises riten wic ce seim leter. Even Mr. Yaw, wi beliv, wud be hapi in ce nog cat his drims fainali keim tru. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Jan 4 19:46:02 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: More off-topic drivel: Re: Language and English References: <200201050034.TAA08499@conman.org> Message-ID: <028501c1958a$bc4d69e0$73469280@Y5F3Q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 07:34 PM Subject: Re: More off-topic drivel: Re: Language and English > It was thus said that the Great Richard Erlacher once stated: > > > > If we could simply agree to spell through thru, as it's often done already, > > and tough as tuff, etc, it would be an improvement. Of course, there are > > still lots of possible syntax errors, e.g. there vs. their vs they're. > > A Plan for the Improvement of English Spelling > by Mark Twain ROFLMAO! I was going to look around and see if I could find this again. It looks like things are progressing a little slower than Sam thought. Perhaps it's progressing by generations rather than years? Bob > > For example, in Year 1 that useless letter "c" would be dropped > to be replased either by "k" or "s", and likewise "x" would no longer > be part of the alphabet. The only kase in which "c" would be retained > would be the "ch" formation, which will be dealt with later. Year 2 > might reform "w" spelling, so that "which" and "one" would take the > same konsonant, wile Year 3 might well abolish "y" replasing it with > "i" and Iear 4 might fiks the "g/j" anomali wonse and for all. > > Jenerally, then, the improvement would kontinue iear bai iear > with Iear 5 doing awai with useless double konsonants, and Iears 6-12 > or so modifaiing vowlz and the rimeining voist and unvoist konsonants. > Bai Iear 15 or sou, it wud fainali bi posibl tu meik ius ov thi > ridandant letez "c", "y" and "x" -- bai now jast a memori in the maindz > ov ould doderez -- tu riplais "ch", "sh", and "th" rispektivli. > > Fainali, xen, aafte sam 20 iers ov orxogrefkl riform, wi wud > hev a lojikl, kohirnt speling in ius xrewawt xe Ingliy-spiking werld. > > -spc (Wondurfl!) From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jan 4 19:46:27 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <00d801c19559$b0186020$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > From: "Sellam Ismail" > > > Let's be accurate here. cummings was a poet. The people posting without > > proper grammar and punctuation are not. > > This is not a place for "stream-of-consciousness" writing style, as has > probably been pointed out repeatedly to those who insist on it. That is a > style popular with, though wholly inappropriate for, a generation of > youngsters with attention deficits and hyperactivity. It can give a guy > whiplash trying to follow the mid-sentence changes in subject. While I don't really care for your analogy, I do agree that mailing lists are not the place for shorthand. Based on what I have seen on many mailing lists, very few people overall use shorthand for email. If you use IRC much, you will find that the "chat" there is in no way proper english. When I use IRC, I tend to type in lowercase, drop punctuation, and use many shorthand abbreviations. When I am sending emails, I try to stick to proper english. I think the best way to sum this up is "When in Rome..." -Toth From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jan 4 19:54:12 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <20020104210741.4472.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jan 4, 2 01:07:41 pm" Message-ID: <200201050154.RAA28590@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > English is a Germanic language, > > http://softrat.home.mindspring.com/germanic.html > > Now I will have to ponder why there are so many similarities > > between French and Italian words and their English counterparts, > > while to me the German language seems so much different. > It is a Germanic language in origin and syntax (through the Saxon, > etc.), but the vocabulary has been heavily influenced by the Norman > French. Look at how many English cognates are now present in Japanese > and Russian. Which was caused by, ta-daa, the Norman invasion of 1066. Nevertheless, the influence was largely limited to polysyllabic words, and had just about no influence on grammar. What *is* interesting about English from a diachronic linguistics standpoint is how unadorned English is. Most of our grammatical markers are just about gone except for vestigial constructions and the occasional irregular verb, and case markers are pretty much restricted to pronomial constructions. In morphology, we look at how words are built and assign the language a particular classification; English is rapidly becoming more and more an 'isolating' type language where some words may not be analysable at all. (Words like, "where some may not be at all" :-) English as the 400-pound gorilla lingua franca is also a bit distressing w.r.t how it strongly influences other languages. Kobardian is an OSV language, as I recall, where object typically precedes subject (this is a very strained word order, and very few languages are OSV or even more weirdly, OVS or VOS). One of the largest ghettos of Kobardian speakers is, of all places, Anaheim, Calif. (which also seems to have a large number per capita of underpaid linguists) who have noted with some regret that the Kobardian spoken by bilinguals is now often subject-object instead of object-subject, more in line with English. While absorbing vocabulary is sometimes necessary in a language's evolution to expand its expressiveness, from a typology perspective it's kind of unfortunate to see it lose its grammatical distinctiveness in the process. This *didn't* happen with English and the Norman invasion, but it is happening with other languages and English today (look at things like pidgins and creole languages). Maybe I'll go to grad school and get my master's after I get my MD ... -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- FORTUNE: You can overcome any obstacle. Try a steeplechase. ---------------- From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Jan 4 19:57:11 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <20020104210336.19294.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <3C360917.18816.520DE03@localhost> I would doubt, altho I've been pleasantly surprised at the depth of knowledge of the participants on this list, if many are acquainted to the "writers bible", "The Elements of Style" by Stronk and White. The title gives the clue. These are sugestions not rules. Fred is saying that typography did lay down a set of rules to be followed if you were going to print and that this had little to do with grammar. eg: 2 spaces after an end of sentence. Lawrence Damn !! I can't believe I'm a willing contributor to this OT dribble. Possibly because it's as comfortable as a favorite BBS. Maybe we should set up another mail-list "classiccomp.dribble" and hope it doesn't suffer the fate of the short-lived "discoveries on E-bay" one which rose out of a flame-war. At least it would cut down the list msgs. to reasonable proportions. From my point of view I could live with a split between micro and mini as I tend to automatically delete anything with DEC (and not appended with Rainbow), VAX, or VMS. Tho at times I'm able to actually able to understand what is being talked about. I know !!! You'se guys are just setting me up to be a mini collector. You have no more room for your own passion and you just want to spread the disease. LOL. Lawrence > > --- "r. 'bear' stricklin" wrote: > > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Stan Barr wrote: > > > > > It's one of the syntax elements of standard written English... > > > > These are all _typesetting_ rules, and not so much grammar rules. > > It's all part of syntax and style, not grammar as you say. How many > people on this list ever turned in a paper where the teacher/professor > insisted on strict adherence to "Strunk and White"? > > > Many early typewriters, in an attempt to reduce mechanical complexity to > > the utmost, even lack differentiated type for the numerals '1' and '0' > > as either can be suitably approximated in typewritten documents by the > > lowercase letter 'l' and the uppercase letter 'O', respectively. > > On Topic: my mother's IBM Selectric type balls do not all contain a > different facet for "1" (one) and "l" (ell). She had a 2"x4" plastic > clip-on key guide for some type balls. ISTR that if you pressed the > "1" key, you got some sort of bracket with the Courier ball installed. > > > Even the American English "rule" of placing all punctuation inside > > quotation marks is a _typographical convention_ that stems from the early days > > of movable type, when the period and comma were the most fragile pieces of > > type and were prone to breaking off in the press. > > > Example: > > > > At the SCM prompt, type, "SHOW BOOT." > > > > At the SCM prompt, type, "SHOW BOOT". > > > > Which one is correct? > > This exact convention is discussed in "The New Hacker's Dictionary". It > mentions that American English convention is to put punctuation inside > the quotation marks (but does not give any explanation), and that > Hacker usage prefers things in quotes to be the literal thing you type > at the computer. I tend toward the modern usage, but I _do_ know the > difference. > > -ethan > > P.S. - in answer to an earlier question asked of the group in general, yes, I > have taken Latin. It was a required course (as I think it still should be, > everywhere, as it once was). I did not attend a public high-school, however. > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > http://greetings.yahoo.com Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 4 19:59:57 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: Some pointers needed on a 11/70 In-Reply-To: The Wanderer "Re: Some pointers needed on a 11/70" (Jan 4, 15:40) References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662D4@exc-reo1> <11147.194.134.214.183.1010002110.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> <10201030019.ZM14991@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C35BEEC.5A050014@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <10201050159.ZM17916@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 4, 15:40, The Wanderer wrote: > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > On Jan 2, 21:08, wrote: > > > > > I'm sure there must be people on the list who know more about 11/70s than I > > do, but since no-one else has replied yet... > > > Until know, you're the only one..... Oh dear, I've only seen one once. > > Is the memory powered up and connected? At the right address (you must > Yes, it is running, and all the leds are on, except one red led (battery > power > available?). > There is 128KW of memory (in 2 64Kw boards) > > > have some memory in the lowest 28KW to start up)? Is the cache working? > How do I know if the cache is working? Good question. I'm not sure, I think it's tested by the diagnostics on the bootstrap card. I think it's possible to disable it but I don't know how. It may be in one of the processor handbooks, which I can look up tomorrow. That's where I checked the value for the LSR and USR. > > There are various things done by the power-up bootstrap diagnostic > True, I have re-read the M9312, and at address 777644 is the diagnostics > rom start > address. When I load this address and then set 012 in the switch reg, > for some > moments it is blinking leds, and then lets the pause light on. There is > no sensible > address/error code shown at the console which should indicate a diag > failure. That sounds encouraging. At least it seems to be running the diagnostic code. I think, though, that the address it halts at is what tells you what (if anything) failed the test. If you can tell where it halted, it may be able to look that up. Do you have the manual for the M9312? There are several ROMs that might be on it, with different device bootstraps, and I think there are at least two diagnostics PROM options: one for 11/70 and one for other Unibus machines. I could be wrong about that, of course; I might be confusing it with the multiplicity of variants of the M9301. I just happen to have an M9301-YC from an 11/70. > On the M8132 is a switchblock (1 of 3) which is - according to the doc- > the > lsw, I have set it to 1M, I suspect that should be set to the actual memory size. Anyone else know anything about 11/70's? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Jan 4 18:59:58 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: Last call for MFM drives, floppies and misc Message-ID: still have some goodies left. pay shipping and maybe enough for lunch at taco bell, and it can be yours! 1.2 and 360k 5.25 floppy drives. untested though. 6 processor cards for IBM PS/2 series that use em (8590,9590,9595,etc) functional 3 ST-251 hard drives. LLF complete 2 ST-225 hard drives. LLF complete 2 seagate type 2 3.5 MFM drives. 7 conner CP1080E 1G drives with funky connector. came from SUN array. Micropolis ESDI 70m Seagate ST-125 drive. LLF complete ?? MFM drive 5 heads 985 cyl 26 sec miniscribe 3650 MFM drive IBM 70M ESDI IBM XT 10 meg FH 5.25 drive Small IDE drives 80-120m come and get it. Getting married, so have to simplify some, but not a lot! -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From LFessen106 at aol.com Fri Jan 4 20:03:48 2002 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: DECstation hardware guide Message-ID: In a message dated Fri, 4 Jan 2002 8:09:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Peter C. Wallace" writes: > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 Colorfulfag@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated Fri, 4 Jan 2002 7:42:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, Doc writes: > > > > > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > > > > > > > Anyone got a handful o' ram for it? > > > > > > > > > > Doc > > > > > > > several handfulls, maybe even shovelfulls... > > > > > > > > > > > > 3100's take 12 simms max for 24 M total > > > > > > So what'cha want for it? I got a lot more toys than cash.... Some > > > RS/6000 MCA stuff, some Sparc sbus doohickeys and a mouse or 3, with > > > optical pads, lotsa late-ISA/early-PCI PC stuff. I got 4Mb parity > > > SIMMs, 72-pin, out the wazoo. Or a PowerBook 145B, sans battery, but > > > with charger brick. Or.... > > > > > > Doc > > > > I would love to get some ram for these as well.. I happen to have a > > *few* spare 3100'ds with no ram in them. > > > > -Linc. > > > > > > > How many do you need? > > shipping should be minimal > > Peter Wallace 12, 24, how many do you have / what's the cost / what are you willing to part with :-) From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jan 4 20:07:57 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <3C363A48.9060505@cnonline.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Ron Hudson wrote: > Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > > If it doesn't have wheels, it isn't really a computer. > > oh good!!! my celeron linux server *has* wheels :^) My P200 Linux workstation also has wheels, so I guess it counts too :) -Toth From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Fri Jan 4 11:17:40 2002 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: OT: A different view of a beloved hobby Message-ID: <61898.62.148.198.97.1010164660.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> >From the excellent news source known as The Reg : http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/30/23549.html -- jht From vcf at vintage.org Thu Jan 3 16:30:24 2002 From: vcf at vintage.org (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: Identify this hard drive? Message-ID: These pictures suck but can anyone possibly identify this hard drive? http://www.siconic.com/crap/bdisk2_f.jpg http://www.siconic.com/crap/bdisk2_s.jpg Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 20:22:07 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: Language and English References: Message-ID: <008001c1958f$c6241540$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Chris, nobody would beat you up for trying to improve himself. Having a few weaknesses is one thing. Defending them is another. Blaming someone else for you having them is worse yet. I'll repeat: Make it easy for them to see what you mean in what you write by taking a little extra care. It's important. Learn to do it well. It's never too late to improve, but YOU have to do it, else it won't happen. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" To: "Classic Computer" Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 3:59 PM Subject: Re: Language and English > >If you have problems reading some things, try to keep that in mind when you > >write. Others may have problems as well. Make it easy for them to see what > >you mean in what you write by taking a little extra care. It's important. > >Learn to do it well. > > I just think some people need to realize that sometimes, what you get is > the best a person can do. I'm not defending a lack of use of punctuation > or capitalization, or anything like that (re: the emails this thread is > about... I agree they should have had better care taken when being > written)... but with generally poor writing, particularly when you find > the same person doing it over and over... you just have to accept that > that MIGHT be the best they are capable of. And you might want to ease up > a bit on them... since the bitching may very well be taken as a direct > insult to their intelligence level... and is apt not to fix the problem, > but rather cause a nasty conflict. > > I mean, how would some of you feel, if you asked about some unknown > classic computer part, and were told "you must be some kind of dumb ass > to not know what that is... anyone who has half a brain in their head > would know this". > > But then, if your writing sucks because you are lazy... well, you should > just be taken out and shot... or at least deserve to be insulted for it. > > Just my thoughts. And no, I myself have not been insulted by ANYTHING > that has ever been said on this list, much less the recent discussions... > including all the bashing I took over the crescent wrench incident... but > then, I am think skinned (or was that think headed), and it takes far > more than a bunch of emails to offend me (kick me in the nuts... I might > be offended... call me a dumb ass... I am likely to agree with you) > > -chris > > > > From Diff at Mac.com Fri Jan 4 20:32:14 2002 From: Diff at Mac.com (Zach Malone) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: FreeVMS References: Message-ID: <001101c19591$303c76b0$6501a8c0@laboffice> > > > If it doesn't have wheels, it isn't really a computer. What about rackmount gear? Zach From at258 at osfn.org Fri Jan 4 20:28:02 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <3C360917.18816.520DE03@localhost> Message-ID: I used to have a copy of "the little book." Seems to me it was required for Freshman English. On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > I would doubt, altho I've been pleasantly surprised at the depth of knowledge > of the participants on this list, if many are acquainted to the "writers bible", > "The Elements of Style" by Stronk and White. The title gives the clue. These > are sugestions not rules. Fred is saying that typography did lay down a set > of rules to be followed if you were going to print and that this had little to do > with grammar. eg: 2 spaces after an end of sentence. > > Lawrence > > Damn !! I can't believe I'm a willing contributor to this OT dribble. Possibly > because it's as comfortable as a favorite BBS. Maybe we should set up > another mail-list "classiccomp.dribble" and hope it doesn't suffer the fate of > the short-lived "discoveries on E-bay" one which rose out of a flame-war. At > least it would cut down the list msgs. to reasonable proportions. From my > point of view I could live with a split between micro and mini as I tend to > automatically delete anything with DEC (and not appended with Rainbow), > VAX, or VMS. Tho at times I'm able to actually able to understand what is > being talked about. I know !!! You'se guys are just setting me up to be a mini > collector. You have no more room for your own passion and you just want to > spread the disease. LOL. > > Lawrence > > > > > --- "r. 'bear' stricklin" wrote: > > > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Stan Barr wrote: > > > > > > > It's one of the syntax elements of standard written English... > > > > > > These are all _typesetting_ rules, and not so much grammar rules. > > > > It's all part of syntax and style, not grammar as you say. How many > > people on this list ever turned in a paper where the teacher/professor > > insisted on strict adherence to "Strunk and White"? > > > > > Many early typewriters, in an attempt to reduce mechanical complexity to > > > the utmost, even lack differentiated type for the numerals '1' and '0' > > > as either can be suitably approximated in typewritten documents by the > > > lowercase letter 'l' and the uppercase letter 'O', respectively. > > > > On Topic: my mother's IBM Selectric type balls do not all contain a > > different facet for "1" (one) and "l" (ell). She had a 2"x4" plastic > > clip-on key guide for some type balls. ISTR that if you pressed the > > "1" key, you got some sort of bracket with the Courier ball installed. > > > > > Even the American English "rule" of placing all punctuation inside > > > quotation marks is a _typographical convention_ that stems from the early days > > > of movable type, when the period and comma were the most fragile pieces of > > > type and were prone to breaking off in the press. > > > > > Example: > > > > > > At the SCM prompt, type, "SHOW BOOT." > > > > > > At the SCM prompt, type, "SHOW BOOT". > > > > > > Which one is correct? > > > > This exact convention is discussed in "The New Hacker's Dictionary". It > > mentions that American English convention is to put punctuation inside > > the quotation marks (but does not give any explanation), and that > > Hacker usage prefers things in quotes to be the literal thing you type > > at the computer. I tend toward the modern usage, but I _do_ know the > > difference. > > > > -ethan > > > > P.S. - in answer to an earlier question asked of the group in general, yes, I > > have taken Latin. It was a required course (as I think it still should be, > > everywhere, as it once was). I did not attend a public high-school, however. > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > > http://greetings.yahoo.com > > > > Reply to: > lgwalker@mts.net > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 4 20:36:46 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable Message-ID: Hi. I picked up a 35lb load of mostly Mac-related cast-offs last night, and scored many cool objets de junque. The 2 things I can't really identify are a Panasonic Easa-Phone, KX-T1225 which seems to be a speed-dialer of some sort. The other is a cable with a (Doc ducks & prepares to rub) 36-pin Centronics connector, plus eyelet ground, on one end and a female card-edge connector on the other. The shrouds are steel, squared, and embossed "TANDY" on both ends. While I've never seen one, I'm guessing it's a Tandy printer cable. The rest of the haul is mostly OT, but see gimme list below: working SyQuest 88MB drive & some cartridges cordless 3-button mouse a whole bag of the fabled 800K floppies 2 copies of FWB's Hard Disk Toolkit (one is even on-topic, I think. System 6.0 bootable disk) The newer version came with docs CharisMac Anubis that I can't date, but there's NO version info in the docs, copyright is 1989-1996 Astarte Toast CD-ROM Pro v3, in original box but no docs Adobe PageMill v2.0, no docs no key Adobe Photo Deluxe no docs Adobe Illustator v6 no docs no key (Waahhh!!!) A couple of NuBus ethernet adapters, one with its right-angle adapter A loose right-angle NuBus adapters with *2* female connectors several Apple-AUI/10B2 transceivers 14400 (no AC adapter) SupraFax modem (needs 9V AC PSU) 33.6 SupraExpress modem with all its parts GeoPort Telecom Adapter - first one I've found in the wild 2 28.8 SupraExpress modems, intact 1998 revision of the "Mac Upgrade and Repair Bible" with its CD. Not bad for free. The transceivers, the 14.4 modem, the Tandy cable and all the NuBus cards are all up for adoption; the rest is probably available for trade if you need something. All this because I gave $35 for a PowerBook 145B I didn't want and the QuickTake 150 (with all its docs, disks, and a NIB Battery Booster Pack) that I did want last week. Yee Haw. Doc From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jan 4 20:56:40 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >KX-T1225 which seems to be a speed-dialer of some sort. The other is a >cable with a (Doc ducks & prepares to rub) 36-pin Centronics connector, >plus eyelet ground, on one end and a female card-edge connector on the >other. The shrouds are steel, squared, and embossed "TANDY" on both >ends. While I've never seen one, I'm guessing it's a Tandy printer >cable. That's the general description of the parallel printer cable to the Tandy 1000-series machines before Tandy switched to a standard connector on the CPU. I've got one here with my 1000HX. Unfortunately Tandy used a number of different connectors for the parallel ports of their early machines, including a dual-row header and the above mentioned card edge connector. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 4 21:08:36 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > The rest of the haul is mostly OT, but see gimme list below: Err, wait. I just read my own post, and that looks like that whole list is up for free. The actual gimme list is down at the bottom. > The transceivers, the 14.4 modem, the Tandy cable > and all the NuBus cards are all up for adoption; the rest is probably > available for trade if you need something. Doc From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jan 4 21:09:02 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > cable with a (Doc ducks & prepares to rub) 36-pin Centronics connector, > plus eyelet ground, on one end and a female card-edge connector on the > other. The shrouds are steel, squared, and embossed "TANDY" on both > ends. While I've never seen one, I'm guessing it's a Tandy printer > cable. That is what was used on the TRS-80 model 1, 3, 4? If I remember correctly (it's been about 20 years), it was part number 26-1401? Model 2 and 100 used a dual row header, and of course, the PC clones used an "RS-232 connector" :-) Since several of their printers were made by Centronics, even though Centronics didn't make the connector or cable, this might be about as close as we can get to a correct usage! From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 20:40:52 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: Language and English References: Message-ID: <009401c19592$64746cc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" To: "Classic Computer" Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 4:23 PM Subject: Re: Language and English > >Unfortunately, today's student doesn't have the tools he needs to cope with a > >foreign language if he hasn't been taught basic sentence structure(subject, > >verb, predicate nominative, predicate adjective, etc.) , spelling, and > >grammar. > > What the hell is THIS based on? Certainly not reality. Any sentence > structure and grammar I learned in English class was actually COUNTER > PRODUCTIVE to me when trying to learn French that uses a totally > different sentence structure. I was constantly confused when attempting > to form a sentence in French, as I tried to speak it in English structure. > They wouldn't have been counterproductive, had you learned them. The understanding of one complete scheme for analysis and design of correctly structured sentences in one language provides a basis on which one can, by comparison and contrast, easily learn a second, or a third. If your difficulty with a second language came from difficulty with the first, it's likely it was because you didn't fully comprehend the concepts involved in structural analysis of the first language. > > I would have to conclude, that LACK of basic sentence structure knowledge > in English will actually HELP a student learn other languages (including > English in the long run, as their brain becomes programmed to a more open > thought process towards language). > This belief suggests you understand little about the basics of language as a concept. The same elements are present in all languages, else people wouldn't be able to express themselves in those languages. > > I base this on my own difficulties in learning a foreign language... and > on the absolute EASE with which my brother's 3 kids have learned Spanish > and English by growing up in a bilingual house hold... as well as my > cousin who was speaking fluent Italian and English by 3 (well, as fluent > as a 3 yr old speaks any language), since he too grew up in a bilingual > household. > It's true that lack of prejudice allows youngsters to learn languages and dialects more easily than adults, and particularly more easily than monolingual adults. As a small child, I spoke two dialects of German. One with my mother, who came from a different part of Germany than where we lived, and the other with my father, who came from where we lived, and spoke the local dialect. Of course, I spoke the local dialect with the locals. However, when faced with a stranger, particularly one who spoke the more formal dialect my mother spoke, I spoke the formal dialect as well. > > Add to it that the most common foreign language errors made by people > that have basic fluency in multiple languages, is incorrect sentence > structure... because they easily mix up what order things should be in > for a given language. > > Nope... in reality, I think the LESS you know of a given language when > attempting to learn additional ones, the better chance you have of > learning the 2nd (or more) language. And for that reason, I feel foreign > languages should be started at the grade school level, and NOT wait until > high school (yes, I think learning multiple languages is very > important... and should be required schooling, at least in the USA. With > a stronger concentration on English since it is the "accepted" language > of the USA... in other countries, YMMV, and the "base" language would > obviously be the accepted language of the area) > I have to disagree. If you set about to learn computer programming, it's considered good form to learn to express various techniques and functions in one language, of which Pascal has recently been a popular choice, before moving on to a more "free" sort of language that lets you make more mistakes without slapping your wrist, like C or C++. The idea is that you have to learn about the concepts in terms of which you have to express yourself before you can be able, simply put, to plow ahead and apply those constructs in another language. Fully learning one will provide tools at a conceptual level that are harder to acquire in some languages than others, but fully learning the concepts associated with programming a computer, just as with communicating with another human, is the only way in which you can get a firm basis on which to build your knowledge. Before you're a competent programmer, you have to learn those constructs, whether you learn them in the first language or the second, or the third doesn't matter, but you do have to learn 'em. Likewise, if you're to communicate effectively, you've got to learn how to do that too. > > -chris > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 21:16:02 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: Language and English References: Message-ID: <00e201c19597$4e491fe0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> FWIW, the line-lengths were defined in character widths, and typewriters printed everything in neat columns, so the punctuation characters were just characters like M and l. see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:06 PM Subject: Re: Language and English > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > When I was in the 8th grade, one of the courses we were required to > > take was in typing. I've never gotten particularly good at it, but I > > did learn that a period at the end of a sentence is followed by two > > spaces, for example. > > I've been told that the only reason they originally taught us to use two > spaces between sentences was because a typewriter's punctuation characters > are not the same width as regular letters. This isn't true with computers, > so the two space rule does not apply. > Having been a proofreader in the newspaper trade for a while while I was in public school, I doubt this very much. The thing I'm persuaded is the case is that it was necessary to put two spaces between sentences so the eye could easily find the limits. Newspapers and magazines printed material in columns which required careful kerning in order to fit as much as possible in the limited space they had available. Spaces were quite variable in width, but, when two of them were together, the typesetters, whether human or automatic, knew what to do. Folks who don't read much probably won't appreciate this, but if one reads, and particularly if one reads more than one line at a time, having those breaks between sentences is very useful. > > It's also customary to insert a blank line between > > paragraphs. That, surely, is to enhance readability. If you want people to > > read your stuff, you've got to make it easy for them. > > This also makes it easier to trim someone's email when quoting for a > reply. > > > -Toth > > From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Jan 4 21:22:26 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:12 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: References: <001801c19536$af89c9a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3C361D12.20004.56EEDE1@localhost> It's like I said, Richard must have been smoking those "funny little cigarettes". I must say I approve of the new you Richard. Lawrence Damn ! I miss Ward Griffith the Libertarian TRS80 guru. > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > If you insist on writing in a style reminiscent of E. E. Cummings > > poetry, you may find that your messages are read by readers of this > > forum with about the same frequency as E.E. Cummings' work, which > > might be a shame, in case you really do have something significant to > > contribute. or in case I'm the only one who doesn't read much > > Cummings. > > Let's be accurate here. cummings was a poet. The people posting without > proper grammar and punctuation are not. > > P.S. cummings' work is great > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Jan 4 21:22:26 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <20020104114552.F890971@uiuc.edu> References: <001301c19544$55517100$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>; from edick@idcomm.com on Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 10:22:06AM -0700 Message-ID: <3C361D12.14471.56EEEDB@localhost> Well in Pegasis it's identified as binary data unknown format. Seems like an ideal hiding place for a worm or virus. I always avoid your postings like a plague, for whatever that means. Lawrence > it's a PGP signature. Your're using outlook, which while brain-dead, should be > able to tell you that...I believe it's identified with the MIME type > "application/pgp-signature", which seems pretty self-explanitory. and if you > don't know what it is, don't open it. I wouldn't expect anything else, > really... > > Richard Erlacher said: > > It's never safe to open an attachment to an otherwise undefined email. > > > > I'd suspect only two or three on this list will be foolish enough to open this > > one. > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dan Wright" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 9:42 AM > > Subject: Re: Language and English > > > > > - Dan Wright > (dtwright@uiuc.edu) > (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) > > -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- > ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, > For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' > Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Jan 4 21:22:26 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <20020104165346.D925879@uiuc.edu> References: <3C3606BC.7EC549D3@verizon.net>; from vze2mnvr@verizon.net on Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 02:47:08PM -0500 Message-ID: <3C361D12.23114.56EEE42@localhost> That's very misleading if you are only talking about the Norman invasion. The British Isles had continuous invasions as described by Robert Graves in "The White Goddess". Granted the words Pork, Beef, poultry and other common words in french had an influence but there were many other sources that preceded that. Just as important as the Germanic or Scandivanian influences. > Because England was invaded by France at some time about 700-1000 yrs. ago > (that's very approximate...), which resulted in the "pollution" of Old English > into Middle English, which much more closely resembles french, and which > eventually evolved into the familiar Modern English. > > > > > > > Ian > > > > > > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > > Note that this item is NOT published on the mailing list, since few people > > > will be interested in its content. That is how personalized replies > > > normally are handled in this environment. > > > > > > see below, plz. > > > > > > Dick > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Ian Koller" > > > To: ; "Richard Erlacher" > > > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 10:06 AM > > > Subject: Re: Language and English > > > > > > > > Hello Dick, > > > > > > > > I get the impression, which may not be correct, that you > > > > may be retired, because of the greater amount of time that > > > > you are able to devote to reading and responding to newsgroup > > > > messages. > > > > > > > Contrary to what you apparently believe, this is not a newsgroup. This is a > > > mailing list, and one that's privately maintained, funded, and hosted. I'd > > > suggest you find out what a newsgroup is and then proceed. I'd also > > > suggest you consider why this list exists. It's a medium for communicating > > > information and thoughts germane to a specific topic. If your message is > > > not germane to that topic, if it contains no relevant information, or if it > > > reflects no thought, it should not be there. > > > > > > > > If this is so, that would mean you encountered an educational > > > > system at a previous date in time that may have been more formal > > > > than that which I encountered. > > > > > > > Nope ... I have two kids in expensive, out-of-state colleges thouseands of > > > miles away, and that doesn't allow me to sit on my duff and read nonsense, > > > not to mention oddly composed, incomprehensibly formatted, and poorly > > > spelled items, written in poor grammar and with incomprehensibly incorrect > > > syntax. > > > > > > If I were you, I'd not start on blaming the educational system for your own > > > inability to communicate in the prevailing language in our culture. If you > > > had attended all your classes, performed all the assigned reading and > > > writing, and taken the feedback from your teachers seriously, you'd be able > > > to express yourself precisely and accurately using the tools the system > > > provided. The fact that you don't shows that you didn't. > > > > > > I was actively engaged in assisting as well as monitoring the education of > > > my children as they went through the public education system. From that > > > experience I learned that one can still get the level of education necessary > > > to express onesself appropriately and accurately in terms of the common > > > mathematics and science and with reference to the same historical and > > > literary background that has traditionally been taught. It is a different > > > process than it was when I went through it, which I did in grades 6 through > > > 12, and onward, probably all well before you were born. > > > > > > > > Question. Did you ever study Latin? Was Latin offered in your > > > > school system? It was not offered in mine, but since I recently > > > > have been in contact with people in France, Italy, Germany, and > > > > Spain, I believe having studied the root language of all the > > > > "romance" languages would have proven helpful now. I'll bet that > > > > when Latin no longer became a requirement in many educational > > > > programs, there was more than one that must have felt that > > > > that was a sign of deteriorating standards. > > > > > > > No, I didn't study Latin, since people don't use it any longer. I was > > > studying English, which, as everyone knows, is NOT a romance language. > > > > > > Did you ever study FORTRAN (before FTN77) or COBOL? At least those are > > > still used ... occasionally. > > > > > > Latin was taught in order to teach the concept of structure and rigor. > > > Those are things clearly absent from your "stream-of-consciousness" writing > > > style, which suggests that, if you did study Latin, you didn't attend all > > > the classes or perform all the assigned work. > > > > > > English is a Germanic language, like, German, which also is not a romance > > > language, and is my "second" language, German having been the first. That > > > may explain why my adherence to precise grammar, syntax, and orthography > > > leans somewhat to the pedantic. > > > > > > I'd suggest that you take the extra moment or two to think about what you > > > need to say in the ClassicCmp mailing list environment BEFORE you say it, in > > > which case you won't have to defend it afterwards, which really isn't > > > necessary anyway. I'd also suggest you take time to consider the effect of > > > what you do to format, punctuate, and capitalize your writing on other > > > people's ability to read what you transmit. The mailing list isn't a "Chat" > > > room. It's not a place for idle chatter, nor is it a place to prattle on > > > about senseless things, though that happens from time to time. > > > > > > Oddly formatted messages become nearly unreadable on displays formatted > > > differently from yours, and there's little you can do about it, since you've > > > no control over the display system some folks use. Many of the users of > > > "the list" are in other countries, which means they're using a language with > > > which they're not familiar. > > > > > > The use of colloqialisms, particularly the use of esoteric abbreviations, > > > can render your messages unintelligible. The reason most of us use > > > "standard" English is that (1) because it's familiar to us, we can quickly > > > and easily read it, extracting the content with reasonable reliability, and > > > (2) because people not so familiar with popular idioms will not have to > > > spend time deciphering them. It's difficult enough sifting through the > > > computerese jargon. > > > > > > > I take time form my busy day to tell you all this because you may have > > > something of value to contribute. Learning, first and foremost, requires > > > exposure to information that one doesn't already have. If there's little of > > > that, and if your messages are difficult to read, your messages will > > > ultimately end up in the "kill file" rather than on the list of things > > > people read. That will, of course be transparent to you, since the listbot > > > will still distribute the things you transmit. It will just become a waste > > > of bandwidth, however. > > > > > > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Gee ... judging from the net unwillingness to use normal "adult" > > > > > punctuation, captitalization, etc, it does look as though you're doing > > > it > > > > > just to be "cute." I can't think of a single reason, otherwise, why one > > > > > would one do that? > > > > > > > > > > When I was in the 8th grade, one of the courses we were required to take > > > was > > > > > in typing. I've never gotten particularly good at it, but I did learn > > > that > > > > > a period at the end of a sentence is followed by two spaces, for > > > example. > > > > > In about the first grade, I learned that the first letter in a sentence > > > is > > > > > customarily capitalized. Why? I don't know, but it appears to be the > > > > > custom. As a consequence, the absence of these basic features makes > > > one's > > > > > writing harder to read. The odd-length lines of text don't help > > > > > readability, either. It's also customary to insert a blank line between > > > > > paragraphs. That, surely, is to enhance readability. If you want > > > people to > > > > > read your stuff, you've got to make it easy for them. > > > > > > > > > > If you insist on writing in a style reminiscent of E. E. Cummings > > > poetry, > > > > > you may find that your messages are read by readers of this forum with > > > about > > > > > the same frequency as E.E. Cummings' work, which might be a shame, in > > > case > > > > > you really do have something significant to contribute. or in case I'm > > > the > > > > > only one who doesn't read much Cummings. > > > > > > > > > > Dick > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:13 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: Language and English > > > > > > > > > > > this may help > > > > > > i am 38 years old, so there is nothing about my typing style > > > > > > where i am trying to be cute. > > > > > > i collect any computer i can get my hands on. > > > > > > i am developing an operating system and a multimedia program > > > > > > to create movies. > > > > > > i use a newer computer to produce records. > > > > > > i am also working out, as i was talking about > > > > > > in the original thread that got off track, a distributed > > > > > > os to control robots and also a custom computer > > > > > > to do the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > i guess thats it. > > > > > > joee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Dan Wright > (dtwright@uiuc.edu) > (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) > > -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- > ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, > For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' > Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 20:49:13 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: RFD: SPAM References: <10201050021.ZM17771@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <00b401c19593$917b69c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I do pretty much the same thing, but haven't worked up a correlation between the list and extra spam. I did see a slight flurry of spam when the list was last moved, and when it previously was reworked. Nevertheless, my level of spam on this address is pretty reasonable. On my other address, which is "out there" on the usenet, I get approximately 100 pieces of spam a day. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Turnbull" To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 5:21 PM Subject: Re: RFD: SPAM > On Jan 4, 17:43, Doc wrote: > > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > > Well, about the only thing I've found that seems to deter spammers is > > > being aggressive with them. Phone calls and faxes to companies they do > > > business with and work for seem to work wonders. > > > > Well, it looks like the relationship between subscribing to this list > > and the wave of spam was simply coincidental. I do use agressive means > > to discourage repeat performances, but I'll admit the latest wave of > > character-based asian crap has me stumped. > > I don't know for sure that it's the list, but I only use this email address > for private mail and this list. I never use it in other obvious places > that would attract spam, such as Usenet, yet I seem to get a little flurry > of extra spam every so often, corresponding to shortly after I post > something here. I'm convinced there's some relationship. Quite how to > reconcile that with the fact that other people who post here never seem to > have a problem, I don't know. I've learned to live with it. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Jan 4 21:22:27 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: More off-topic drivel: Re: Language and English In-Reply-To: <10201050128.ZM17877@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" "Re: More off-topic drivel: Re: Language and English" (Jan 4, 19:34) Message-ID: <3C361D13.17951.56EEF8F@localhost> Shaw I believe was also a proponent of Esperanto. For a major writer in English he certainly would qualify as a justifiably credited critic. Lawrence > On Jan 4, 19:34, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > > A Plan for the Improvement of English Spelling > > by Mark Twain > > It is wonderful, although it's not by Mark Twain, but by M.J. Shields in a > letter to The Economist. It was in response to George Bernard Shaw's > suggestions to reform the English alphabet by adding 14 letters to > eliminate spelling anomalies. Another wonder in the same vein is to be > found at http://www.d.kth.se/~d92-abj/humor/spelling_reform.html. It > concludes: > > Kontinuing cis proses, ier after ier, we would eventuali hav a reali > sensibl writen langug. By 1975, wi ventyur tu sei, cer wud bi no mor uv ces > teribli trublsum difikultis, wic no tu leters usd to indikeit ce seim nois, and > laikwais no tui noises riten wic ce seim leter. Even Mr. Yaw, wi beliv, wud be > hapi in ce nog cat his drims fainali keim tru. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Jan 4 21:22:27 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: <200201041900.OAA00652@wordstock.com> References: <3C35F64D.48DDBAEE@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Jan 4, 02 01:37:01 pm Message-ID: <3C361D13.3728.56EEF49@localhost> In Senator Molsons arm or on Atwater at St. Catherines in a vacant space ? Lawrence > > We called that a "tobaggan" in Canada (well at least Southern Ontario) and you > went "tobagganing" with it. > > Anyone know where the Molson Muscle is located? ;) > > Bryan > > > > > > > Dick, are you sure they weren't talking about they type of sled that you > > ride down a snowy hill? That is what I think of when I hear "snow > > sled". Normally, I'd just call it a sled, However. > > > > Chad Fernandez > > > > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > > Odd that you should mention this ... > > > > > > As they've reccently had snow in the southern U.S, where that's a noteable > > > and rare event, youngsters interviewed DO refer to the thing as a "snow" > > > sled, apparently because snow is such a rarity. > > > > > > Dick > > > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jan 4 21:29:29 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > The 2 things I can't really identify are a Panasonic Easa-Phone, > KX-T1225 which seems to be a speed-dialer of some sort. The other is a > cable with a (Doc ducks & prepares to rub) 36-pin Centronics connector, > plus eyelet ground, on one end and a female card-edge connector on the > other. The shrouds are steel, squared, and embossed "TANDY" on both > ends. While I've never seen one, I'm guessing it's a Tandy printer > cable. I bought about 6 similar cables about a year ago. They might be a later version of the same cable. They don't have a metal shroud on the card-edge end, but do on the 36-pin connector. If I remember correctly, they are for Tandy 1000 machines. The only other Tandy machines that I can think of that used a card-edge for a parallel port were the TRS-80 models 1, 3 and 4. Btw, I was told that Tandy closed the Houston located Radio Shack Outlet store. Does anyone here know if that's true? They were a good source for old Tandy/TRS-80 cables, and I bought tons from them. -Toth From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 4 21:25:57 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Language and English References: <3C360917.18816.520DE03@localhost> Message-ID: <010201c19598$b2695660$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Hey! That's not you're meaning, isn't it? When I was a student, the "bible" was Campbell's Form and Style in Thesis Writing. I may actually still have my original copy. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Walker" To: "Ethan Dicks" ; Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:57 PM Subject: Re: Language and English > I would doubt, altho I've been pleasantly surprised at the depth of knowledge > of the participants on this list, if many are acquainted to the "writers bible", > "The Elements of Style" by Stronk and White. The title gives the clue. These > are sugestions not rules. Fred is saying that typography did lay down a set > of rules to be followed if you were going to print and that this had little to do > with grammar. eg: 2 spaces after an end of sentence. > > Lawrence > > Damn !! I can't believe I'm a willing contributor to this OT dribble. Possibly > because it's as comfortable as a favorite BBS. Maybe we should set up > another mail-list "classiccomp.dribble" and hope it doesn't suffer the fate of > the short-lived "discoveries on E-bay" one which rose out of a flame-war. At > least it would cut down the list msgs. to reasonable proportions. From my > point of view I could live with a split between micro and mini as I tend to > automatically delete anything with DEC (and not appended with Rainbow), > VAX, or VMS. Tho at times I'm able to actually able to understand what is > being talked about. I know !!! You'se guys are just setting me up to be a mini > collector. You have no more room for your own passion and you just want to > spread the disease. LOL. > > Lawrence > > > > > --- "r. 'bear' stricklin" wrote: > > > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Stan Barr wrote: > > > > > > > It's one of the syntax elements of standard written English... > > > > > > These are all _typesetting_ rules, and not so much grammar rules. > > > > It's all part of syntax and style, not grammar as you say. How many > > people on this list ever turned in a paper where the teacher/professor > > insisted on strict adherence to "Strunk and White"? > > > > > Many early typewriters, in an attempt to reduce mechanical complexity to > > > the utmost, even lack differentiated type for the numerals '1' and '0' > > > as either can be suitably approximated in typewritten documents by the > > > lowercase letter 'l' and the uppercase letter 'O', respectively. > > > > On Topic: my mother's IBM Selectric type balls do not all contain a > > different facet for "1" (one) and "l" (ell). She had a 2"x4" plastic > > clip-on key guide for some type balls. ISTR that if you pressed the > > "1" key, you got some sort of bracket with the Courier ball installed. > > > > > Even the American English "rule" of placing all punctuation inside > > > quotation marks is a _typographical convention_ that stems from the early days > > > of movable type, when the period and comma were the most fragile pieces of > > > type and were prone to breaking off in the press. > > > > > Example: > > > > > > At the SCM prompt, type, "SHOW BOOT." > > > > > > At the SCM prompt, type, "SHOW BOOT". > > > > > > Which one is correct? > > > > This exact convention is discussed in "The New Hacker's Dictionary". It > > mentions that American English convention is to put punctuation inside > > the quotation marks (but does not give any explanation), and that > > Hacker usage prefers things in quotes to be the literal thing you type > > at the computer. I tend toward the modern usage, but I _do_ know the > > difference. > > > > -ethan > > > > P.S. - in answer to an earlier question asked of the group in general, yes, I > > have taken Latin. It was a required course (as I think it still should be, > > everywhere, as it once was). I did not attend a public high-school, however. > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > > http://greetings.yahoo.com > > > > Reply to: > lgwalker@mts.net > > From pcw at mesanet.com Fri Jan 4 15:04:38 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Free to good home - 2 obscure computers Message-ID: These are the Viking AVAB (Swedish) computers I asked about before Obscure enough that no one seems to know anything about them... has the following cards: Western Digital MCP-1600 based CPU (maybe Pascal pcode machine) Western Digital FDC Western Digital 4Serial + Parallel I/O card 2X AVAB 32K battery backed SRAM cards Couple of odd AVAB I/O cards Proprietary bus, ~8"x10" cards -- Rack mount enclosure Were used for theater lighting system 1 system has 2x3.5" (720k ?) floppy drives a 1 8" drive (narrow Tandon) other system has 2x3.5" (720k?) drives Free for pickup in SF bay area (otherwise out they go) Peter Wallace From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed Jan 2 14:32:46 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: NEXT Color Printer find Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146745F@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] ! ! ! On Sun, 30 Dec 2001, Robert Schaefer wrote: ! ! > I would imagine it was to talk to the printer. IIRC early Macs used ! > SCSI printers, too. Pretty neat. I wonder how hard a SCSI <-> ! > parallel interface would be to build. ! ! I seem to remember seeing a few companies offer these kinds ! of bridges, ! but I doubt they would work for anything other then a printer. I have here on my desk, an UNused Hewlett Packard 88395 SCSI/Parallel Interface. With it's power supply. :-) Need any more info? Like what's inside? ! I have a SCSI <-> ethernet bridge around here somewhere. I ! think it was ! made for older Macs that lacked nubus or another means of ! expansion. It ! reports itself as a disk device, but I haven't done much with it yet. That's a neat thing. Do you remember who the manufacturer is? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jan 4 21:34:20 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > > cable with a (Doc ducks & prepares to rub) 36-pin Centronics connector, > > plus eyelet ground, on one end and a female card-edge connector on the > > other. The shrouds are steel, squared, and embossed "TANDY" on both > > ends. While I've never seen one, I'm guessing it's a Tandy printer > > cable. > > That is what was used on the TRS-80 model 1, 3, 4? > If I remember correctly (it's been about 20 years), it was part number > 26-1401? I can dig out the Model 1000 cables I have and find the part number if needed. > Model 2 and 100 used a dual row header, and of course, the PC clones used > an "RS-232 connector" :-) Right, the model 2 typically used a ribbon cable with IDC connectors. I have one of these with its DWP printer out in storage :) -Toth From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jan 3 19:31:56 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment References: <3C35DA47.6B39B8F5@verizon.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20020104132105.0259c5d8@mail.azstarnet.com> <3C34F4F3.3C082D75@jetnet.ab.ca> <004e01c19585$66bf8120$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3C35060C.20D62EB@jetnet.ab.ca> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Many printer makers still have WIn3.1 drivers, and, by now, ones that work, > on their web sites. My Win3.1x drivers for the OKI OL1200 printer, for > example, work OK under '98. I did install the later drivers for WIn9x. I > don't see a significant advantage, however. > > You will also need the Win3.1x installation diskettes if there's no printer > already installed. That is the PRIMARY PROBLEM! I have no installation disks. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jan 4 21:36:24 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >That is what was used on the TRS-80 model 1, 3, 4? >If I remember correctly (it's been about 20 years), it was part number >26-1401? I'd have to pull my Mod III or 4p but I believe there's a difference between their card edge connector for the parallel printer port and that of the 1000-series machines. >Model 2 and 100 used a dual row header, and of course, the PC clones used >an "RS-232 connector" :-) The dual row header was also used by the Model 2000 and the Model 102. Interestingly, they both used the standard DB-25F connector for the serial port. Given that Tandy's PC-clones were the 1200, 3000 and 4000 series machines, I would doubt if any of them used anything other than the standard connector. It was the original TRS-80 line, the 2000, and the 1000 series that tended to deviate. Anyone here have a Tandy 5000MC? There's a MCA-bus machine you don't hear much about. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 4 21:40:50 2002 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Dr. Strangelove (Re: More off-topic drivel: Re: Language and English) References: <200201050034.TAA08499@conman.org> <10201050128.ZM17877@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3C3675C1.E5870330@mail.verizon.net> Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Jan 4, 19:34, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > > A Plan for the Improvement of English Spelling > > by Mark Twain > > It is wonderful, although it's not by Mark Twain, but by M.J. Shields in a > letter to The Economist. It was in response to George Bernard Shaw's > suggestions to reform the English alphabet by adding 14 letters to > eliminate spelling anomalies. Another wonder in the same vein is to be > found at http://www.d.kth.se/~d92-abj/humor/spelling_reform.html. It > concludes: > > Kontinuing cis proses, ier after ier, we would eventuali hav a reali > sensibl writen langug. By 1975, wi ventyur tu sei, cer wud bi no mor uv ces > teribli trublsum difikultis, wic no tu leters usd to indikeit ce seim nois, > and laikwais no tui noises riten wic ce seim leter. Even Mr. Yaw, wi beliv, > wud be hapi in ce nog cat his drims fainali keim tru. The above... don't tell me!..... Dr. Strangelove, right? Eric (Grabs hand with black glove and pulls it away from throat with the other hand). > > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jan 4 21:46:56 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146745F@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > ! From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] > > ! I have a SCSI <-> ethernet bridge around here somewhere. I > ! think it was > ! made for older Macs that lacked nubus or another means of > ! expansion. It > ! reports itself as a disk device, but I haven't done much with it yet. > > That's a neat thing. Do you remember who the manufacturer is? Just dug it out of storage. It's an Asante EN/SC, the original desktop version that needs 12V AC. On the front of the unit, it has power, traffic and link indicator leds, a TN-TP/AUI switch and an AUI port. The rear of the unit has a BNC, RJ45, 2x 25 pin scsi connectors, the scsi ID switch, and the power input jack. It is built like a tank and is quite heavy considering its case is all aluminum. -Toth From mythtech at Mac.com Fri Jan 4 22:04:05 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Language and English Message-ID: >Chris, nobody would beat you up for trying to improve himself. Having a few >weaknesses is one thing. Defending them is another. Blaming someone else >for you having them is worse yet. I'm not trying to defend lazy writing skills. I'm not directly trying to blame others either (although, I think a chunk of initial poor writing skills of any kind can be pinned back to improper or poor education. You can't fault the student, if the teachers failed to teach the right thing). >I'll repeat: Make it easy for them to see what you mean in what you write by >taking a little extra care. It's important. Learn to do it well. I agree 100%... but do you mean to say that EVERYONE that uses email has an IQ over 120, and can be expected to master writing skills? Granted, chances are if you are on THIS list, you might be above average, but I am talking more in general (as I am sure some of the correction offenders do this in more places than here) >It's never too late to improve, but YOU have to do it, else it won't happen. No, it isn't too late, but there comes a time when improvement will stop, because a person can do no better. Or, improvement will stop, because the person logically chooses to attempt to do no better, because they have achieved a level that is "good enough", and their time can be better spent on other things. (ie: read Strunk and White, or better your job skills) I am not trying to defend myself, or say that any of this is about me. I want to make that clear... other than poor spelling, I am unaware of any serious language infractions I have ever committed on this list... and when writing anything other than email, I personally rely heavily on spell and grammar checkers... specifically to avoid having my writing make me seem like an ass... I want the honor of making me an ass to be totally on WHAT I write, not HOW I write. I just want some of the hard core language nazi's to realize that sometimes, they should just let it go. If you can't understand what was written, delete it, ignore it, whatever. Friendly constructive criticism is fine... but do it in jest, don't be a dick about it (this isn't saying YOU are a dick about it, no pun intended Richard, just in general, PEOPLE should not make federal crimes out of it... well, at least not until it has spun so badly off topic that it has become interesting and fun in it own right, like this thread). So if you can't understand it because it is so poorly written, you might be better off just ignoring it or deleting it. And if you are the person that wrote that way, and no one responds, maybe you should consider following more traditional writing styles, and check your grammar and spelling. And for those that can't do that (English, or the language of the group, is not their first language, and their skills in general are poor), they should mention that up front. I just don't think highly of people that quote an email specifically to point out writing errors in it. It has never convinced me of anything except that the quote corrector is an arrogant self righteous a-hole. However, if they were to be friendly about it, and do the correction in a tongue in cheek manner, then the original author would get the idea they should be more careful (and probably learn a few things), and the corrector would come off as being more friendly. -chris From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 4 22:16:17 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >That is what was used on the TRS-80 model 1, 3, 4? > >If I remember correctly (it's been about 20 years), it was part number > >26-1401? > > I'd have to pull my Mod III or 4p but I believe there's a > difference between their card edge connector for the parallel printer > port and that of the 1000-series machines. OK. This cable has no p/n at all. The card edge connector is 2.25 inches wide, 0.5 inches thick, and shows insertion marks to a depth of ~0.5 inches. The female card-edge slot is 34 pins, and 1.8 inches wide. If anybody wants it, it's theirs for postage. I keep thinking I want a TRS-80, but I keep not getting one. Doc From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Jan 4 17:53:58 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: OT: Not P.C. hack-ob In-Reply-To: <3C343D7D.DA4B878F@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20020105045434.OGDB23989.tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 06:16:13 -0500 > From: Ian Koller > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org, > David Woyciesjes > Subject: Re: OT: Not P.C. hack-ob > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > David, > I thought that was hilarious. Very well done. > Very tastefully done too. At least they didn't > put a porn shot there or anything. Gasp! :-) That Death Vader's "head bust" is still there about 11:45pm, jan 4th. > David Woyciesjes wrote: > > ! From: Dan Schwartz [mailto:Expresso@snip.net] > > ! Of all sites to get hacked, The National Cathedral. Click on: > > ! > > ! and check out the mouse-over effect for the "Discover" link :-) > > ! > > ! Who knows how much longer it'll stay up?! > > > > I know, it's not nice, but it is still kinda funny... True, this is far better at that for soft prank. :-) Cheers, Wizard PS: Enjoyed watching star wars movies. From mhstein at usa.net Fri Jan 4 21:26:41 2002 From: mhstein at usa.net (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Way OT: Frost Heaves (was RE: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclatur e (was: NEXT Color Printer find Message-ID: <01C19576.D3700CE0@mse-d03> Oooooohhh.. Groan... GOOD ONE; LOL! Makes all the OT crap worth while. -------------Original Message------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 10:31:54 -0700 From: "Feldman, Robert" Since ee cummings had been disparaged here, one could interpret the term as critical of a certain New England poet ;) From mhstein at usa.net Fri Jan 4 22:22:33 2002 From: mhstein at usa.net (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Language and English Message-ID: <01C19576.D755F9A0@mse-d03> Well, I DO want to nitpick; never thought I'd come to Dick's defense, but nothing wrong with *E*.*E*. Cummings AFAIK: http://www.gvsu.edu/english/cummings/caps.htm Any statistics available on what percentage of text on this list actually concerns computers? Often amusing and occasionally interesting though; particularly ironic that almost all replies criticizing spelling, etc. also contained at least one typo or spelling/grammar error... (not to mention Doc's 'e.e' criticism) C'mon, guys (since the gals are obviously more mature), isn't this getting a little nasty for a friendly group like this? Free speech, diversity of opinions, yes, but do we need words like a**hole? mike (In .ca despite usa.net address :) -----------------Original Message--------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 11:05:43 -0600 (CST) From: Doc Subject: Re: Language and English On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > If you insist on writing in a style reminiscent of E. E. Cummings poetry, > you may find that your messages are read by readers of this forum with about > the same frequency as E.E. Cummings' work, which might be a shame, in case > you really do have something significant to contribute. or in case I'm the > only one who doesn't read much Cummings. Nah, I like ee cummings. And not to nitpick, but your rendering of his name is incorrect. I submit further that none of the mortals on the classiccmp list have evolved to that literary level. *** Umm... a somewhat sweeping generalization... mike *** Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 4 23:03:33 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <01C19576.D755F9A0@mse-d03> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, M H Stein wrote: > Well, I DO want to nitpick; never thought I'd come to > Dick's defense, but nothing wrong with *E*.*E*. Cummings > AFAIK: > > http://www.gvsu.edu/english/cummings/caps.htm Huh. I'll be darned. I have to say, though, I've never seen his name capitalized in print. I guess I learned 2 new things today. > > I submit further that none of the mortals on the classiccmp list have > evolved to that literary level. > *** > Umm... a somewhat sweeping generalization... Well... yeah. What else are literary discussions good for, if not sweeping generalizations? Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 4 22:23:51 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > Just dug it out of storage. It's an Asante EN/SC, the original desktop > version that needs 12V AC. On the front of the unit, it has power, traffic > and link indicator leds, a TN-TP/AUI switch and an AUI port. The rear of > the unit has a BNC, RJ45, 2x 25 pin scsi connectors, the scsi ID switch, > and the power input jack. It is built like a tank and is quite heavy > considering its case is all aluminum. YES!! That one! Can you post the specs for the PSU? I have the adapter, but no wall wart. That may render the PB 145 semi-desirable. Doc From mythtech at Mac.com Fri Jan 4 22:29:55 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable Message-ID: >The 2 things I can't really identify are a Panasonic Easa-Phone, >KX-T1225 which seems to be a speed-dialer of some sort. Grey box with 4 columns of buttons (something like 10 or 15 rows), and two RJ jacks at the top (RJ45 and RJ11?). If that is what you have, then it sounds like these old PBX speed dialers I had (probably not, but just in case, here goes)... IIRC mine said Panasonic Easa-Phone on them too. The ones I had, I think could only be plugged into the old Bell PBX they were used with. They didn't work on POTS lines. They had a 50 pin "Blue Ribbon" (WOOHOO... now that I know the name, I can use it correctly) to 5 RJ12 adaptor that was plugged into the 25 pair telco cable. It used an RJ12 to RJ45 adaptor cable to plug into the Telco adaptor. And then the RJ11 jack on the dialer was used to hook up to a speaker/mic box (a la Charlie's Angels desktop speaker phone box) I might still have one kicking around, but I don't think I have any manuals (don't recall ever having manuals). -chris From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jan 4 22:31:06 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Ron Hudson wrote: > > > Yup, I could "help" them, probably set the effort back > > at least a year... :^) > > > > > On Thu, 2002-01-03 at 19:46, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > > > > >> Why not just get a VAX (or two or three?) > > > > $$ and X*Y*Z (money and space) :^) > > Also: speed. Sorry, but the new Dual ath 1.4G I hope to get with Xmas > money would be tons faster than and old VAX 8650. Not as fun to play with > the little computer, but much easier to carry without a pallet mover. Get a bunch of VAXstation 4000/VLC's, and you will have a nice little low-power fast VAXcluster. > > I have not-too-much experince with VMS, so bear with me, but wouldn't it > be possible to do one of the following options: > > 1) Stick an 'emulation' user-mode shell on top of some free *nix > 2) Take a stock free *nix kernel, and modify it to work more like VMS. But then you still wouldn't have compatibility with VMS. Get a VAXstation 4000/VLC and start playing with it, and you will see how fun it is. Plus it will use *significantly* less space, power, and cooling than that junky PC. Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jan 4 22:48:13 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020104110731.03425d00@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Matthew Sell wrote: > >be possible to do one of the following options: > > > >1) Stick an 'emulation' user-mode shell on top of some free *nix > > > >2) Take a stock free *nix kernel, and modify it to work more like VMS. > > That was the idea. I thought of taking FreeBSD, and add device drivers for > peripherals and filesystems, as well as implementing the "shell". > > I do have various VAXen to test this on. You might be able to get the feel of VMS, but getting all the neat features of VMS (decnet, clustering, binary compatibility) would be highly problematic. Plus administration would be a completely different animal. > >Of course, the problem is deciding what ONE kernel to use (prolly BSD or > >Linux 2.??), and how to trim down the kernel to a small set of drivers for > >testing it. > > I was thinking about using FreeBSD, simply for the availability of many > platform ports, including VAX. If you want BSD that works the same on all sorts of hardware, FreeBSD is not it. It's too x86-centric. Look at NetBSD http://www.netbsd.org/ Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jan 4 22:53:08 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020104111212.03423280@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Matthew Sell wrote: > Don't forget that FreeBSD already runs on the VAX, and FreeVMS (in my > project concept) would be an extension and implementation of the existing > FreeBSD kernel so that it "looks and feels" like VMS. NetBSD works better on the VAX. I suggest that you check it out. It runs on a far wider variety of hardware than FreeBSD. > I also wanted this implementation of FreeBSD to use native DEC filesystems > and operate classic DEC hardware. Depends on what you mean by "classic". If you want to do UNIX on PDP-11, 2.11BSD is probably your best bet. On VAX, it's probably NetBSD. But VMS is quite a bit nicer on VAX than UNIX is, IMHO. Peace... Sridhar From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 4 22:39:53 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Almost On-Topic: DEC AHA1742B Firmware Message-ID: Hi, again. I just tripped on my Jensen box looking for the dial calipers, and that reminded me. I have a DEC 2000/150axp, working, and a copy of Digital Unix v4.0, licensed, that I want to run on it. The problem is the EISA SCSI firmware. The OS wants firmware version G2, my AHA1742 has version G1. I tried the firmware images from Adaptec, but the DEC installer hurls on that too. Does anyone know where I might find DEC firmware upgrades for the SCSI adapter? Burning the EEPROMs isn't a problem. This box is only 9-and-a-half years old, so you'll all please excuse me. ;) Doc From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jan 4 23:14:45 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Almost On-Topic: DEC AHA1742B Firmware In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > I just tripped on my Jensen box looking for the dial calipers, and > that reminded me. I have a DEC 2000/150axp, working, and a copy of > Digital Unix v4.0, licensed, that I want to run on it. The problem is > the EISA SCSI firmware. The OS wants firmware version G2, my AHA1742 > has version G1. I tried the firmware images from Adaptec, but the DEC > installer hurls on that too. Does anyone know where I might find DEC > firmware upgrades for the SCSI adapter? Burning the EEPROMs isn't a > problem. I have a large pile of 1740/42 cards, including a few brand new ones. I could dump the EPROMS if they would help any. I imagine they are mostly still using the factory versions of their bios and microcode, but I never have tested any of them. -Toth From mythtech at Mac.com Fri Jan 4 22:45:23 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Lazer 128 Apple IIe Clone Message-ID: I know there are some Apple ][ clone people on this list, so I thought I would forward this on. I would love the Lazer 128, but can't afford to ship it, and Michigan is too far for me to drive to pick it up... maybe one you would want it: >Subject: [swap] Anyone insterested in Apple IIgs or Lazer 128. >Date: 1/4/02 7:57 PM >Received: 1/4/02 9:42 PM >From: Scott Simons, mrvchung@iserv.net >To: LEM Swap List, lem-swap@mail.maclaunch.com > >Just like the subject says. Anyone insterested in Apple IIgs or Lazer >128. I'm not all I have because they are in storage, but I will try to >get to them this weekend. I will then have a list of hardware that would >come with them. Local to 49418 or 49345 would be great. > >Scott >GR, MI Reply to him, not me, I don't know anything more than the above listing. -chris From CLeyson at aol.com Fri Jan 4 22:53:50 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3200SX Question Message-ID: <63.472f521.2967e0de@aol.com> On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 tothwolf@concentric.net wrote: >> Thanks for the advice. Found the battery, or rather what's left of it. >> Whatever it is that leaks or gasses out of Lithium batteries has eaten >> into most of the steelwork. I will have to replace the floppy drive >> and clean up metalwork. :-( >Are you sure it's a Lithium battery? I think most of these used NiCads, >and recharged them when they were powered. It's definitely Lithium (Eternacell B9632T 3.6V). I think the machine must have been on it's side when the battery leaked. There is a lot a corrosion damage to the FDD mounting hardware and the FDD head stepper motor. Anything zinc plated seems to have been badly corroded. The main board appears to be OK. Two crystal cans are badly corroded (zinc plated) and some of the solder joints in the area are a little "dull". Everything functions normally apart from the erratic FDD. FDD and HDD have non standard 26-way and 40-way connectors respectively. I've found a source for replacement FDD, ecdmagnetics.co.uk. >A number of the boards I repaired after the Houston floods had damage from >the Lithium coin cells around the holders. It was an dark orange-red color >and didn't seem to be highly alkaline or acidic. A thorough cleaning with >baking soda and a plastic brush seemed to get rid of this stuff. Before I get around to cleaning the boards I will need to figure out how to disconnect the display. The connecting cables are hardwired to the main board :-( Thanks for the advice Chris Leyson From Golemancd at aol.com Fri Jan 4 22:56:38 2002 From: Golemancd at aol.com (Golemancd@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Movie making and distributed robotics Message-ID: an os to run the apps as fast as they can run. no far calls. maybe no swapping. a dual mode os where i can single task to squeeze as much performance out as i can and also switch to mutitasking when needed. i robotics os would be to run hundreds of robots. like a theme park run entirelly by bots where the robots repair the other bots. the system would do diagnostics on all the bot like a bios does on a pc to see if all the hardware is working. also the give vision to the bot. also many other functions. joee From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jan 4 23:08:29 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > Just dug it out of storage. It's an Asante EN/SC, the original desktop > > version that needs 12V AC. On the front of the unit, it has power, traffic > > and link indicator leds, a TN-TP/AUI switch and an AUI port. The rear of > > the unit has a BNC, RJ45, 2x 25 pin scsi connectors, the scsi ID switch, > > and the power input jack. It is built like a tank and is quite heavy > > considering its case is all aluminum. > > YES!! That one! Can you post the specs for the PSU? I have the > adapter, but no wall wart. That may render the PB 145 semi-desirable. Well, it uses a 2.1mm ID, 5.5mm OD coaxial power connector. I don't have the original wall wart, but I took my unit apart some time ago and figured out that it needed 12V AC 800-1000ma. More often then not, anything with an AUI port that uses a wall wart will use 12V, often AC, but sometimes DC. What's a PB 145? -Toth From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 4 23:10:53 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Chris wrote: > >The 2 things I can't really identify are a Panasonic Easa-Phone, > >KX-T1225 which seems to be a speed-dialer of some sort. > > Grey box with 4 columns of buttons (something like 10 or 15 rows), and > two RJ jacks at the top (RJ45 and RJ11?). Nope, fake wood-grain box with 2 columns, 32 in all. It has a line out with what appears to be an RJ45 connector, and a Y-dongle with RJ45 and RJ11 in, and RJ11 out. I haven't plugged it in to the wall yet. I probably won't, come to think of it. Even if it works, every phone in the house, as well as the one in my pocket, has built-in speed-dial. But it's *cute*; that's the important thing. :) Doc From Golemancd at aol.com Fri Jan 4 23:21:26 2002 From: Golemancd at aol.com (Golemancd@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Fwd: those who asked. golemancd pc collection Message-ID: <11f.9952cfb.2967e756@aol.com> -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Golemancd@aol.com Subject: those who asked. golemancd pc collection Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 23:44:04 EST Size: 846 Url: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020105/fde0a59d/attachment.mht From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jan 4 23:32:39 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3200SX Question In-Reply-To: <63.472f521.2967e0de@aol.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 CLeyson@aol.com wrote: > It's definitely Lithium (Eternacell B9632T 3.6V). I think the machine must > have been on it's side when the battery leaked. There is a lot a corrosion > damage to the FDD mounting hardware and the FDD head stepper motor. > Anything zinc plated seems to have been badly corroded. I've never seen a lithium battery leak from old age. I have some sitting around that were made in the mid '80s. I'll make a note to avoid this particular brand if I can help it. Does the motor still turn? It may just need to be cleaned up. > Before I get around to cleaning the boards I will need to figure out how to > disconnect the display. The connecting cables are hardwired to the main > board :-( Are they soldered? Do they use flat plastic or standard ribbon cable? Sometimes they use a locking connector on the flat plastic cables, you have to gently pull up on the top edge of the connector on the pc board. These are usually easy to spot tho, because they usually have a lip and a line around them where they are segmented. I've actually seen companies solder the flat plastic cables directly to boards, and they are very difficult to desolder and resolder successfully without lots of experience and a temperature controlled iron. -Toth From wpointon at earthlink.net Fri Jan 4 23:40:38 2002 From: wpointon at earthlink.net (bill pointon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I generally try to taylor my language to my audience, and when communicating with humans, I have often found them to be more intelligent than compilers, I also don't use the emoticons that many lists seem to like as I find they remnd me too much of laugh tracks in b movies. However, I shall henceforth correspond only in ANSI c; though if i occasional lisp, i hope that you wont consider it an impediment. Again my friends, I mean no offense to anyone, and apologize for any difficulties in understanding my posts. Thank You, Bill Pointon On Friday, January 4, 2002, at 06:25 PM, Tony Duell wrote: >> >> this is not a reply to any particular message but to the thread as a >> whole -- you sound like a bunch of old-fashioned high school english > > Nobody is expecting postings here to be written in what English teachers > would call good 'style'. I don't think anyone would care (for example) > about using the same word in 10 sentences in a row. Or not having > exactly > the right punctuation. Or anything like that. > >> teachers -- i mean come on people - form follows function - or at least >> it has for the last 30 years since marshal mcluhan - if you cant >> understand someones post without consulting a thesaurus grammarian and >> lexicon of the english language is it worth a diatribe -- i tend to >> ignore capitalization and punctuation also - save for the generic >> pause -- and if you cant decipher my messages is it perhaps because >> of a >> failure in the reader rather than the writer ? i really dont care ---- > > No it's not the fault od the reader IMHO.... > > Let me give you an analogy. > > Here's a program that looks a little like C : > > itn main (int argc, car **argv) > { > printf('hello world/n"]: > ) > > (yes I know there are mistakes in that, that is the point). > > We all know what I intended to write there. But when I try to feed that > to a C compiler I get error messages. Is that the fault of the compiler? > No, there's a standard (ANSI C) for the language that I feed into the > compiler, and that program doesn't comply with it. However, if I got > errors > compiling this program : > > #include > int main (int argc, char **argv) > { > printf("hello world\n); > exit(0); > } > > (which I think does comply with the ANSI C standard) then there is a > fault with the compiler. > > It's the same on this list. We have a standard (gramatically 'correct' > English) for messages here. In general that standard is interpretted > fairly loosly, so we don't have a flamewar every time somebody makes a > typo, or when somebody whose first language is not English says > something > that an English-speaker wouldn't have said. However, when 2 people can't > understand each other, then we can use the 'English Standard' to > determine which one is in error. And if the writer is not using > punctuation, then I am afraid he's the one making the mistakes. > > Another point. Many messages on this list ask for help in some way. > Which > is certainly one purpose of this list. It would seem to be reasonable, > however, to make it easy for said help to be give, by (for example) > clearly stating what you are asking about and what you are asking for. > If > the helper has to spend a lot of time deciphering the message then he's > likely not to bother. > > There is no point in posting a message to a public mailing list unless > you want it to be understood by other people on that list. Which means > (in the case of this list) using understandable (not necessarily > perfect) > English. > > -tony > From jss at subatomix.com Fri Jan 4 23:50:52 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <200201041536.g04FaNr91715@bg-tc-ppp438.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <20020104233711.H20574-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Bill Pechter wrote: > The problem is VMS uses 4 separate CPU modes, besides the Unix kernel > and user modes which makes it difficult if not impossible to get it > right on x86. 32-bit x86 processors have 4 privelege levels for segment-level and I/O protection, but only 2 privelege levels for page-level protection. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Jan 5 00:04:47 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <010201c19598$b2695660$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3C36431F.22698.603968F@localhost> No I meant dribbling from the lips as one who no longer control of his physical functions. Hey this could be a new word. Remember you first heard it here ! ! Strunk and White is obligatory if you have any pretenses as a writer. While the Campbells book may have many good things about it, it's not S and W. Lawrence > Hey! That's not you're meaning, isn't it? > > When I was a student, the "bible" was Campbell's Form and Style in Thesis > Writing. I may actually still have my original copy. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lawrence Walker" > To: "Ethan Dicks" ; > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:57 PM > Subject: Re: Language and English > > > > I would doubt, altho I've been pleasantly surprised at the depth of > knowledge > > of the participants on this list, if many are acquainted to the "writers > bible", > > "The Elements of Style" by Stronk and White. The title gives the clue. These > > are sugestions not rules. Fred is saying that typography did lay down a set of > > rules to be followed if you were going to print and that this had little > to do > > with grammar. eg: 2 spaces after an end of sentence. > > > > Lawrence > > > > Damn !! I can't believe I'm a willing contributor to this OT dribble. > Possibly > > because it's as comfortable as a favorite BBS. Maybe we should set up > > another mail-list "classiccomp.dribble" and hope it doesn't suffer the fate > of > > the short-lived "discoveries on E-bay" one which rose out of a flame-war. At > > least it would cut down the list msgs. to reasonable proportions. From my > > point of view I could live with a split between micro and mini as I tend to > > automatically delete anything with DEC (and not appended with Rainbow), VAX, > > or VMS. Tho at times I'm able to actually able to understand what is being > > talked about. I know !!! You'se guys are just setting me up to be a > mini > > collector. You have no more room for your own passion and you just want to > > spread the disease. LOL. > > > > Lawrence > > > > > > > > --- "r. 'bear' stricklin" wrote: > > > > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Stan Barr wrote: > > > > > > > > > It's one of the syntax elements of standard written English... > > > > > > > > These are all _typesetting_ rules, and not so much grammar rules. > > > > > > It's all part of syntax and style, not grammar as you say. How many > > > people on this list ever turned in a paper where the teacher/professor > > > insisted on strict adherence to "Strunk and White"? > > > > > > > Many early typewriters, in an attempt to reduce mechanical complexity to > > > > the utmost, even lack differentiated type for the numerals '1' and '0' as > > > > either can be suitably approximated in typewritten documents by the > > > > lowercase letter 'l' and the uppercase letter 'O', respectively. > > > > > > On Topic: my mother's IBM Selectric type balls do not all contain a > > > different facet for "1" (one) and "l" (ell). She had a 2"x4" plastic > > > clip-on key guide for some type balls. ISTR that if you pressed the > > > "1" key, you got some sort of bracket with the Courier ball installed. > > > > > > > Even the American English "rule" of placing all punctuation inside > > > > quotation marks is a _typographical convention_ that stems from the > early days > > > > of movable type, when the period and comma were the most fragile pieces > of > > > > type and were prone to breaking off in the press. > > > > > > > Example: > > > > > > > > At the SCM prompt, type, "SHOW BOOT." > > > > > > > > At the SCM prompt, type, "SHOW BOOT". > > > > > > > > Which one is correct? > > > > > > This exact convention is discussed in "The New Hacker's Dictionary". It > > > mentions that American English convention is to put punctuation inside the > > > quotation marks (but does not give any explanation), and that Hacker usage > > > prefers things in quotes to be the literal thing you type at the computer. > > > I tend toward the modern usage, but I _do_ know the difference. > > > > > > -ethan > > > > > > P.S. - in answer to an earlier question asked of the group in general, > yes, I > > > have taken Latin. It was a required course (as I think it still should > be, > > > everywhere, as it once was). I did not attend a public high-school, > however. > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > > > http://greetings.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > Reply to: > > lgwalker@mts.net > > > > > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From stanb at dial.pipex.com Fri Jan 4 15:23:20 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 04 Jan 2002 15:31:23 EST." Message-ID: <200201042123.VAA06546@citadel.metropolis.local> > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Stan Barr wrote: > > > It's one of the syntax elements of standard written English, as taught > > in Britain anyway for many, many years. One space after a comma, two after > > a period, exclamation or question mark, indent the first character of a > > paragraph, etc... > > These are all _typesetting_ rules, and not so much grammar rules. > You are, of course, quite right - That's what I *really* meant. ;-) I was taught all that in school (back in the '50s) as it was expected that we would all be using typewriters in the brave new future, plus I used to help edit the school magazine. I still use these conventions automatically (mostly...I tend not to indent paras on here). Talking to younger relatives today they gave me blank looks, so I guess they no longer teach any text layout in school - just when word processors could actually make such learning useful to them! -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From jss at subatomix.com Sat Jan 5 00:06:51 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <200201041821.NAA07382@conman.org> Message-ID: <20020104235239.C20574-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > The 386 and above also have a virtual 8086 mode, which allows you to > run real mode code under a protected OS---the real mode is virtualized > (to an extent, I don't think it's pure vitualizasion like you can get > on the IBM 360 line). I believe that in virtual-8086 mode, priveleged instructions (e.g. OUT) cause a trap. The OS, having set up the appropriate trap gates, gets control and decides what to do for these instructions. > There is an undocumented mode---real-32 bit (where the CPU is in > 32-bit mode, but not running protected) but that's a hack and is > probably not recomended. That's 'flat mode'. It's not a hack; it's actually the simplest way to set up protected mode, and requires very little work from the programmer. Once upon a time, I built this floppy that contained a larval kernel and, in the boot sector, a kernel loader. The only thing my 'kernel' did was enter protected mode and print "Hello, world" on the screen. I used flat mode. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From CLeyson at aol.com Sat Jan 5 00:19:48 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3200SX Question Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 tothwolf@concentric.net wrote: >I've never seen a lithium battery leak from old age. I have some sitting >around that were made in the mid '80s. I'll make a note to avoid this >particular brand if I can help it. Does the motor still turn? It may just >need to be cleaned up. It think the battery must have gassed as well. There is evidence of bad corrosion to zinc plated parts two to three inches from the battery. Aluminium and copper parts seem to be OK. The head stepper motor still works but is badly corroded on the outside. I will have to remove it to clean it properly and then re-align with a known good floppy. >> Before I get around to cleaning the boards I will need to figure out how to >> disconnect the display. The connecting cables are hardwired to the main >> board :-( >Are they soldered? Do they use flat plastic or standard ribbon cable? Standard twisted pair ribbon cable terminated with a 26 way 0.1in pitch IDC transition connector which is soldered to the board. I will probably cut the cable and remove the connector (one pin at a time) and replace with a standard IDC plug and socket. I can't understand why they didn't do this in the first place, there is enough room to fit both a plug and socket. Also, the display power cable has no connector fitted. BTW, I worked with a guy who accidentally recharged an AA sized Lithium battery. It left shrapnel in the wall and he is still slighty deaf in one ear. Chris It lef From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 5 00:25:37 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: More completely lame crap to skip over...Re: Language and English In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > Even the American English "rule" of placing all punctuation inside > quotation marks is a _typographical convention_ that stems from the > early days of movable type, when the period and comma were the most > fragile pieces of type and were prone to breaking off in the press. OK, this is interesting. I always thought that it was both aesthetically ugly and illogical to place punctuation marks inside quotes. The belong on the outside, unless it belongs to the quote itself. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Jan 5 00:30:22 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <01C19576.D755F9A0@mse-d03> Message-ID: <3C36491E.30048.61B0432@localhost> As a fellow Canjen. Welcome to the classiccomp mailing list. Hey if you want nit-picking and flames look back in the archives a couple of years ago. At that time Sellam was known as Sam and his sig included the disclaimer "occasional asshole" which I seem to have, in my own mind, at least, inherited. Cmon Sellam tell me to F.O.. If this happens I promise to nevemore trangress the OT rule. Unless neccessary. Lawrence > Well, I DO want to nitpick; never thought I'd come to > Dick's defense, but nothing wrong with *E*.*E*. Cummings > AFAIK: > > http://www.gvsu.edu/english/cummings/caps.htm > > Any statistics available on what percentage of text on > this list actually concerns computers? Often amusing and > occasionally interesting though; particularly ironic > that almost all replies criticizing spelling, etc. also > contained at least one typo or spelling/grammar error... > (not to mention Doc's 'e.e' criticism) > > C'mon, guys (since the gals are obviously more mature), isn't > this getting a little nasty for a friendly group like this? > Free speech, diversity of opinions, yes, but do we need words > like a**hole? > > mike > (In .ca despite usa.net address :) > -----------------Original Message--------------------- > Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 11:05:43 -0600 (CST) > From: Doc > Subject: Re: Language and English > > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > If you insist on writing in a style reminiscent of E. E. Cummings poetry, you > > may find that your messages are read by readers of this forum with about the > > same frequency as E.E. Cummings' work, which might be a shame, in case you > > really do have something significant to contribute. or in case I'm the only > > one who doesn't read much Cummings. > > Nah, I like ee cummings. And not to nitpick, but your rendering of > his name is incorrect. > > I submit further that none of the mortals on the classiccmp list have > evolved to that literary level. > *** > Umm... a somewhat sweeping generalization... > mike > *** > > > Doc > > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From vance at ikickass.org Sat Jan 5 00:51:33 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: PS/2 Model 70 In-Reply-To: <02Jan4.134416est.119201@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >I would go with a newer version of OS/2, because they tend to be a bit > >slimmer than the older versions. Granted, this statement doesn't apply to > >versions < 2.0. > > Warp Connect seems to work fine on my 8573-121 in just 8MB of > RAM on the planar. I used to use 2.1 For Windows as my main system > when I had a 486DLC and it ran ok as well. Which is what I was saying. Warp is slimmer than 2.1, and Warp 4 is slimmer than Warp 3. Peace... Sridhar From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Sat Jan 5 00:40:00 2002 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:13 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <20020104235239.C20574-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at "Jan 5, 2002 00:06:51 am" Message-ID: <200201050640.WAA07209@jill.ssl.berkeley.edu> > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > I believe that in virtual-8086 mode, priveleged instructions (e.g. OUT) > cause a trap. The OS, having set up the appropriate trap gates, gets > control and decides what to do for these instructions. There is a bit mask in the TSS (I think) that controls whether an I/O will trap or be executed. Other privledged instructions will trap. > > There is an undocumented mode---real-32 bit (where the CPU is in > > 32-bit mode, but not running protected) but that's a hack and is > > probably not recomended. > > That's 'flat mode'. I think he means "real flat mode" which is different from what is usually referred to as "flat mode." Eric From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 5 00:40:25 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3200SX Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jan 2002 CLeyson@aol.com wrote: > Standard twisted pair ribbon cable terminated with a 26 way 0.1in > pitch IDC transition connector which is soldered to the board. I will > probably cut the cable and remove the connector (one pin at a time) > and replace with a standard IDC plug and socket. Why not just desolder the connector? Braid works well for some of those plated through boards, just watch the heat or it can lift the pads. > I can't understand why they didn't do this in the first place, there > is enough room to fit both a plug and socket. Also, the display power > cable has no connector fitted. Simple, it would have cost them more. If it saved them $0.20-30 for each computer made, it would add up quickly. They might have also had reliability problems with a connector, since a laptop is subject to lots of shock and vibration. It's possible the original design had such a connector, and they eliminated it due to cost or reliability issues. > BTW, I worked with a guy who accidentally recharged an AA sized > Lithium battery. It left shrapnel in the wall and he is still slighty > deaf in one ear. Do I dare ask *how* one accidentally recharges a lithium battery? -Toth From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jan 5 00:41:31 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > What's a PB 145? A PowerBook 145B. A 68030 @25mHz, no FPU, 4MB RAM, 80M harddrive, 10" greyscale, and this one doesn't even have the battery anymore. No ethernet, no pcmcia. It was part of the package for a QuickTake camera. Thanks for the specs. Doc From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 5 01:06:15 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > What's a PB 145? > > A PowerBook 145B. A 68030 @25mHz, no FPU, 4MB RAM, 80M harddrive, 10" > greyscale, and this one doesn't even have the battery anymore. No > ethernet, no pcmcia. It was part of the package for a QuickTake camera. > Thanks for the specs. Ah, that explains it. It should work as long as it has a scsi port. The Asante website had the drivers last time I checked. I don't know what versions of MacOS they support. I think I might have archived a copy that I can send you if they don't have them up anymore. -Toth From marvin at rain.org Sat Jan 5 00:44:33 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1 Message-ID: <3C36A0D1.521BE3C5@rain.org> With so much OT stuff going on, this FAQ might be interesting reading for some of the newer members of this listserver. And just for the sake of curiosity, who has been on the list the longest? I joined sometime around June 5, 1997. NOTE: This is an OLD FAQ and the contact information is OUTDATED!!! I do not know if the listserver commands still work, Jay??? ============================================================================= DO NOT DISPOSE OF THIS PART OF THE FAQ. THIS IS THE PART THAT EXPLAINS HOW YOU CAN SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE. IT WILL TAKE ME MORE TIME TO DO THESE THINGS FOR YOU THAN IT WILL TAKE FOR YOU TO DO THEM YOURSELF ============================================================================= ClassicCmp - The Classic Computers Discussion List Part 1 in the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy Mail/Internet Basics FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) v1.2 Last Update: 7/01/97 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This FAQ is written with the primary purpose of making readily available answers to the more common questions appearing on ClassicCmp. It is Maintained by Bill Whitson . The infor- mation in this document has been gathered from a variety of sources but, in general, the members of ClassicCmp should be credited for all contain- ed herein. I have, of course, endeavored to be as accurate as is possible and often failed ;). This FAQ is Part 1 of the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy. The information presented deals with the use of mailing lists and internet-specific tools. If you have questions, comments, or corrections (always welcome) please contact me at the address above. A current copy of this FAQ is available on the web at http://weber.u. washington.edu/~bcw/ccl.html or via anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.27 in the directory /pub/classiccmp/faqs as classiccmp.faq. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Updates: New Sections: 2.1, 3.1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Mailing Lists ---------------- 1.1 Mailing List Basics 1.2 How to Talk to the Robot How to set to Digest How to Subscribe How to Unsubscribe 2. FTP ------ 2.1 FTP Basics 3. World Wide Web ----------------- 3.1 WWW Basics ============================================================================= 1.1 Mailing List Basics A mailing list is a simple device which takes an e-mail and redistributes it to a group of people. People can add and remove themselves from the distribution list by Subscribing and Unsubscribing. When you send a message to the list, it is first examined by the robot for key words that tell it to process an automatic funtion (like help, subscribe, unsubscribe, etc). If the message does not contain a keyword it is sent to the distribution list. 1.2 How to Talk to the Robot There are a few List Processor commands that you might want to use. To send a command to the list processor, write a message to listproc@u.washington.edu (Do NOT send the message to classiccmp@u.washington.edu). In the body of the message (not the subject line, that is) write one of the following commands, then send the message. SET CLASSICCMP MAIL ACK Tells the robot to send you a copy of messages you write to the list. This is the default. SET CLASSICCMP MAIL NOACK Tells the robot NOT to send you a copy of messages you write to the list. I don't recommend this. SET CLASSICCMP MAIL DIGEST Tells the robot to send you a digest of messages rather than each as it is posted. With this option you will get a weekly bundle of messages and keep a nice, tidy in-box. SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP Your.Address Subscribes you to the list. UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP Your.Address Removes you from the list. [][][][][][][][][][] 2.1 FTP Basics FTP is a protocol by which files can be transferred over the internet. You can use FTP to connect to a remote site and retrieve files. The commands you use with FTP depend on the software you use. In general you must make sure that you are in BINARY mode before transferring a program file or compressed files. The process of downloading a file is usually termed GET and the process of uploading a file is usually termed PUT. Your FTP program will require an address to connect to. For the ClassicCmp site that address is 140.142.225.27. You then may be asked to log in (unless your program assumes an anonymous login). When asked for a name, use anonymous. When asked for a password enter your internet e-mail address. [][][][][][][][][][] 3.1 WWW Basics The only complicated thing with the WWW is knowing what bells and whistles your web browser supports. You don't really need to know much other than the address for ClassicCmp. The web site is all text which means just about any web browser from the oldest Lynx to the newest Netscape or Microsoft browser should support it. The ClassicCmp site is http://weber.u.washington.edu/~bcw/ccl.html. ============================================================================= From marvin at rain.org Sat Jan 5 00:44:51 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 2 Message-ID: <3C36A0E3.3A2DF97D@rain.org> ============================================================================= ClassicCmp - The Classic Computers Discussion List Part 2 in the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy List Specific FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) v1.6.2 Last Update: 7/01/97 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This FAQ is written with the primary purpose of making readily available answers to the more common questions appearing on ClassicCmp. It is Maintained by Bill Whitson . The infor- mation in this document has been gathered from a variety of sources but, in general, the members of ClassicCmp should be credited for all contain- ed herein. I have, of course, endeavored to be as accurate as is possible and often failed ;). This FAQ is Part 2 of the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy. The information presented deals with regular day-to-day issues on the list. If you have questions, comments, or corrections (always welcome) please contact me at the address above. A current copy of this FAQ is available on the web at http://weber.u. washington.edu/~bcw/ccl.html or via anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.27 in the directory /pub/classiccmp/faqs as classiccmp.faq. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Updates: New Sections: 1.5, 1.7, 2.9, 2.10 Updated Sections: 1.1, 2.3, 2.4, 3.1 Removed: 5.4, 6.1-on ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. About the List ----------------- 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? 1.2 Why is ClassicCmp? 1.3 What's a Classic Computer? 1.4 Who runs this thing? 1.5 How come I can never reach this so-called list operator? 1.6 Don't you know you're duplicating what others have done? 1.7 How much mail should I expect to get on this list? 2. Protocol and Etiquette ------------------------- 2.1 What can I talk about? 2.2 Can I talk about PCs? 2.3 Can I talk about Mini/MainFrames? 2.4 Can I post advertisements? 2.5 Can I ask people to give me their computers? 2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x? 2.7 Where should I look before posting a dumb question? 2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS?!? 2.9 Can I post trophy lists? 2.10 Can I use obscene languagein my posts? 3. Misc List Information ------------------------ 3.1 How many subscribers are there? 3.2 How many subscribers use machine x? 3.3 Is this list archived? 4. ClassicCmp Resources on the Net ---------------------------------- 4.1 Does ClassicCmp have a Web Site? 4.2 How come the Web Site is so ugly? 4.3 Does ClassicCmp have an FTP Site? Collecting ---------- 5.1 Where can I find Classic Computers? 5.2 How much is machine x worth? 5.3 Will thousands of innocent machines be scrapped if I don't save them? 5.4 I don't understand anything. Help! ============================================================================= 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are often better handled in private e-mail. 1.2 Why is ClassicCmp? Uh, why not? There are lots of people who love these old machines and it seems like a fun idea to get together and talk about them. 1.3 What is a Classic Computer? _Any computer_ that has not been manufactured for 10 years is a classic. This definition is one I made up and it's entirely arbitrary. It seems to work OK, so I've kept it. 1.4 Who runs this thing? That would be me, Bill Whitson - email bcw@u.washington.edu. 1.5 How come I can never reach this so-called list operator? Sorry. It does often take me several days (sometimes weeks!) to respond to e-mail. I am often away for days at a time and when I'm not I'm still probably busy doing real work. I receive more than double the amount of mail that goes to the list in the form of spam, bounced messages, odd user requests, general bitching, etc. and I still have to filter out the messages I actually have to respond to, to remain employed ;). I will get back to you eventually. 1.6 Do you know you're just duplicating work other people have done. I get a "reinventing the wheel" e-mail at least once a week. If you show me another group of computer collectors that claims a membership as large as this one I'll show you a group that must be very hard to find. Obviously there are other groups of collectors and I'm cheering them on - I don't see a problem with duplicating and reduplicating lore that's quickly disappearing anyway. 1.7 How much mail should I expect to get on this list? The daily load varies widely from about 10 messages to over 100. Average seems to be about 44 messages a day. There are times where the message load peaks for as much as a week. [][][][][][][][][] 2.1 What can I talk about? Anything related to classic computers as defined above. There are many people on this list that really know what they're talking about, so you might want to check facts before you start shooting off messages. It's also a good idea to actually read the FAQs and check the archives a little before posting. 2.2 Can I talk about PCs? Yes. PCs which haven't been manufactured for 10 years. Even then, be aware that in many cases you would get a better response posting to PC newsgroups. 2.3 Can I talk about Minis/MainFrames/WorkStations/Gigantic Talking Boxes with Flashing Lights & Coundown Timers/Robots from Alien Civilizations? There has apparently been some misconception that this is a list for micros/home computers only. You'll note I said "misconception". 2.4 Can I post advertisements? Sure. As long as they're related to _classic_ computers. And, of course, use your brain - don't spam. Also, please state up-front whether or not you are willing to ship the items you sell outside your country as there are members of this list in a number of different countries. 2.5 Can I ask people to sell/give me their computers? Sure. But you're not likely to get a very nice response. Mine, for example, would be: Get your own f***ing computer! There are several people on usenet who will vouch for this. When someone posts about one of their machines without offering to sell it - it's really a pretty good bet that they're not secretly trolling for offers. See section 5 for info on how to find yourself a computer. 2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x. Yes. Be aware that it may be difficult to help you fix things if you don't have much knowledge of how computers work or of how to use basic electronics tools (VOM/DMM, soldering iron, EPROM burner, etc). I'm no whiz with this stuff and the little knowledge I have has come from asking questions and then buying books to find out what "Simple... Just check the voltage on the caps in the PS to make sure one of them isn't flaking out!" exactly means. 2.7 Where can I look before posting a dumb question? It might be a good idea to take a look at what's available in the Archive section of the ClassicCmp web site (see below). 2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS!?! (Or, in general, be unreasonable with reagard to advocacy posts?) Check your anti-MS baggage at the door, please. For that matter, drop any posts that serve only to perpetuate the holy wars. 2.9 Can I post trophy lists? Ahem. Er... I'm not going to go to the extent of banning this practise but it is considered bad manners. Don't whine to me because I used to be guilty of this and curbed myself ;). Post lists of newly acquired goods if you actually need info on them, not just to show off. 2.10 Can I use obscene language in my posts? Yes. Although I'm sure many people would prefer you did not. A number of people have complained about this. I'm not going to outlaw swearing - now that I've informed you that it bothers people you can make your choice. [][][][][][][][][][] 3.1 How many subscribers are there? Around 180 and changing daily. 3.2 How many subscribers use machine x? Check the web site (see below). The Classic Computer Encyclopedia shows the number of machines registered by subscribers. 3.3 Is this list archived? Yes. The archives are available on the FTP site (see below) in the directory /pub/classiccmp/archive. The file name format indicates the month/year of the archive. Keep in mind that they are quite large. [][][][][][][][][][] 4.1 Does ClassicCmp have a web site? Yep. http://weber.u.washington.edu/bcw/ccl.html 4.2 How come the web site is so ugly? How come a PET is so ugly? Who cares as long as it works? 4.3 Does ClassicCmp have an FTP site? Yes. Anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.27. Look in /pub/classiccmp. There's not much there that's not available on the web site. I'm starting to load old drivers and system disks on occasion. There is an incoming directory which subscribers may use for ClassicCmp-related file transfers if needed. [][][][][][][][][][] 5.1 Where can I find classic computers? The best places seem to be thrift stores and swap meets. These are closely followed by pawn shops and mom and pop computer stores. The holy grails are electronics scrap yards - but they tend to be wary of individual pick-and-choosers. Oh yeah - garage sales! 5.2 How much is machine x worth? Precisely as much as you'll pay for it. Oh, you're selling it? Then, precisely as much as I'll pay for it. Seriously, no one prices these any more. I have an old Computer Blue Book that lists many classic computers but the prices are just ridiculous. Some machines (Apple Lisa's, old old Mini's, and unreleased prototypes) are starting down the road toward their original selling prices but it's unlikely that most will ever be worth more than the cost of their components. 5.3 Will 1000's of innocent machines be scrapped if I don't save them? Yes. This is the impetus behind every collector's tireless and selfless effort. Each machine we fail to save has it's gold parts mercilessly hacked off and sold (just like rhino horns - and look at the rhinos). The remainder is then sent to China to be made into bicycle spokes (you probably think I'm joking). Save a computer! Act now! Remind your SO of the rhino and cuter, fuzzier animals. It might work. In all seriousness - there are a large (and growing) number of so called "computer and electronics 'recyclers'" who take usable computers and recycle them into "reusable scrap". Small amounts of gold, silver, and platinum are extracted and the remainder of the material is generally just marketed to less wasteful countries. 5.4 I don't understand anything. Help! Don't worry - you're not the only one. Reading this list, old magazines, books and whatever else you can get your hands on is the first step. Once you reach a critical mass of knowledge thigs get a lot easier. I'm working on putting together a list of books and tools that a beginner should get his hands on. If you have suggestions, let me know. ============================================================================= From marvin at rain.org Sat Jan 5 00:44:59 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 3 Message-ID: <3C36A0EB.9D703F06@rain.org> ============================================================================= ClassicCmp - The Classic Computers Discussion List Part 3 in the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy Technical FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) v1.6.1 Last Update: 7/01/97 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This FAQ is written with the primary purpose of making readily available answers to the more common questions appearing on ClassicCmp. It is Maintained by Bill Whitson . The infor- mation in this document has been gathered from a variety of sources but, in general, the members of ClassicCmp should be credited for all contain- ed herein. I have, of course, endeavored to be as accurate as is possible and often failed ;). This FAQ is Part 3 of the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy. The information presented deals with regularly asked questions which are technical in nature. If you have questions, comments, or corrections (always welcome) please contact me at the address above. A current copy of this FAQ is available on the web at http://weber.u. washington.edu/~bcw/ccl.html or via anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.27 in the directory /pub/classiccmp/faqs as classiccmp.faq. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Updates: New Sections: 5.1 Updated Sections: 1.2, 2.4, 4.1, 5.1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. General ------------------ 1.1 I just picked up a new machine. What should I do? 1.2 What's the best way to clean these dingy tan boxes? 2. Media -------- 2.1 What's a hard sector disk? What's a soft sector disk? 2.2 What's SS/SD, DS/DD, DS/QD, DS/HD, etc. 2.3 Can these formats be interchanged? 2.4 What disk sizes are there? 2.5 How do I take care of old media? 3. Component Failure Issues --------------------------- 3.1 Do EPROM's go bad? 3.2 How about ROM's, other chips? 3.3 How about capacitors? 3.4 Anything else? 3.5 So how do I backup all this stuff like you suggest? 4. Software ----------- 4.1 Where can I get a system disk for platform X? 4.2 What's the best way to back up my software? 5. Specific Problems/Solutions ------------------------------ 5.1 Is it possible to bypass an RF modulator to achieve composite output? ============================================================================= 1.1 I just picked up a new machine. What should I do? Don't power it up yet! All of the following should probably be done before that power switch gets flipped. Open the case - clean and visually inspect components. You're looking for traces of smoke, water, corrosion, loose screws, blown caps and resistors, cold (broken) solder joints, bent pins, etc. It may be a good idea to remove and re-seat all socketed components and connectors. If anything burned or overheated it will probably pay to replace it before powering up the unit. You can avoid a number of problems just by taking a peek inside. If you have the tools (and the machine is sufficiently rare) pull and dump backups of all EPROMs, ROMs, and PALs. If you have really cool tools (like a logic analyzer) it has been suggested that you use them to record critical information from those oh-so-hard-to-find custom chips. Specific information on how to do this is beyond the scope of a FAQ, but you probably know what you need to if you own the appropriate tools. Disconnect the power supply from the rest of the computer and start it up on a "dummy load". A six volt headlight bulb has been recommended as a convenient load. These should be available from any decent Volkswagen shop. Running the power supply without a load could result in damage to it. You may want to check the voltage output before you do this as it could be no where near the 5V average in micros. Even if you don't want to connect a load it's still probably a good idea to power it up separately from the computer for the first time. If you have a really rare beast it may be worth powering up some of the key capacitors out of circuit just to get them warmed up. Now you can power it up. Assuming it works, take a blank disk, format it, write some data to it, and read it back before using your precious software with it, as a bad disk drive could really ruin your day. 1.2 What's the best way to clean these dingy tan boxes? Cases: It seems best to start gently with such old equipment. Try soaking in a little water and dish soap and then scrubbing. This takes care of most jobs. For removing stickers try mineral oil or Goo-Gone (available at most hardware stores - in the US at least). If those don't work, acetone can be good but, if overused, can do more harm. For removing marker, almost any solvent is good (alcohol, naptha, etc) but will definitely discolor or dissolve plastic if not carefully applied. Lava soap is also good for removing marker but can smooth off textured plastic. For removing sun or tobacco discoloring a product called Purple Stuff available from auto parts stores (again, in the US at least) seems to do the job almost effortlessly. Recommended commercial products: Purple Stuff from Kragen [for discoloration] Brasso [ink/marker] (can discolor plastic) Antistatic Foam Cleaner from Electrolube [for discoloration/markings] Citra-Solv [for discoloration] (can dissolve plastic if undiluted) Cameo Copper Cleaner [ink/marker] Naptha [for stickers/goop/spooge] (very flammable) 3M GP Adhesive Remover [for stickers/goop/spooge] CRC 226 / CRC 556 [for stickers/goop/spooge] Fulcron [for discoloration] Blue Shower / BS II [for stickers/goop/spooge] Connectors: For edge connectors a plain pink eraser seems good for removing corrosion. Apparently other colors of eraser indicate a different texture - which may be damaging. Make sure to wipe the connectors with a clean cloth after erasing on them. There are a large number chemicals on the market that "magically" remove corrosion from components but as I don't know how safe they are, I'm not anxious to promote any of them. For pin style connectors a toothbrush and some softscrub or other mildly abrasive cleaner do wonders. Recommended commercial products: Electrolube contact cleaning sprays. Keyboards: I find a cycle through the dishwasher does a really nice job on keyboards. Just be sure they're completely dry before you put any power to them. If there is reason not to use a dishwasher (some key labels can come off) it is usually possible to remove each keycap and clean conventionally. [][][][][][][][][][] 2.1 What's a hard sectored disk? What's a soft sectored disk? We'll start with soft-sector since they're simpler to explain. On a soft-sector floppy disk the information that marks where a sector begins and ends is written to the disk by the computer (part of the formatting process). This means that various computers can use the same floppy disk types because the format of the disk is control- led by the operating system. Hard sector disks use a system of perforations in the media to mark the beginnings and ends of sectors. This means that computers which used hard sectored disks required the exact disk type they specified rather than a generic soft-sector floppy. A number of differently sectored disks were available - at least 10, 13, and 16 sector formats. 8 inch and 5.25 inch disks commonly used hard sectoring. 3.5 inch disks never came hard-sectored and, in fact, it would not be possible. 2.2 What's SS/SD, DS/DD, DS/QD, DS/HD, etc. These all refer to the number of useable sides on a disk and it's density (how "efficiently" the magnetic bits are pushed together). SS/SD is a Single Sided - Single Density disk, the earliest available type I believe. The storage afforded by a single density disk was very small compared to today's standards. Single Sided disks were popular because they were cheaper than DS and could be easily modified with a hole punch into double sided disks. SD was followed by Double Density which, amazingly, doubled the amount of storage space. Double Density was followed by the extremely short-lived Quad Density which doubled a DD disk. QD was short lived because High Density was right on it's heels and nearly doubled disk capacity again. DS/HD was as sophisticated as 5.25" disks became. 3.5" disks have progressed as far as DS/EHD double-sided / extra-high density. 2.3 Can these formats be interchanged? Well, that may depend on what computer you are using, but in general the following substitutions may be made: Desired Format Substitute --------------------------------------------------- Single Density Double Density Double Density none reliably Quad Density DD, HD (sometimes work, not advisable!) High Density none Other substitutions may be made, but due to physical differences in how the disks are made they are generally unreliable. It can almost be guaranteed that data written to a proper density disk of poor quality will last longer than data written to a good quality disk of the wrong density. In the case of quad density no substitution should be considered reliable. DD and HD disks both can be forced to work. One may work better than the other given the peculiarities of various drives. 2.4 What disk sizes are there? Disk Types? Physically? Standard Disks Unique/Proprietary Disks --------------------------------------------------------- 8" (Floppy) 5" (MiniFloppy) 5.25" (MiniFloppy) 3.25" (MicroFloppy) 3.5" (MicroFloppy) 3" (MicroFloppy) 2.5" 2" In addition to odd sizes - there is at least one type of disk which was physically different. "Twiggy" disks for the Apple Lisa 1 were regular 5.25" disks with the exception that they had two read/write windows. One was oriented "north" of the center hole, the other "south". 2.5 How do I take care of old media? Step one is Back It Up! After that, make sure it's kept in a clean, dry, temperature-controlled environment (I keep mine in a broken freezer). With disks it seems important to keep them standing on end rather than lying flat - the same goes for cassette tapes. I like to exercise disks and tapes at least once every six months although I have no real evidence that this has any positive effect. I have modified an old C64 floppy drive to simply spin when a disk is inserted and send large stacks of disks through it on a regular basis just to make sure they're not starting to stick up internally. An exciting and somewhat recent development is that availability of classic computer emulators that can make disk images of old media on PC's and Macs. This seems to be a very good way to backup disks since they will eventually go bad no matter how well we take care of them. The official line seems to be that floppy disks have a shelf-life of approximately 10 years. With proper care many are lasting a lot longer. [][][][][][][][][][] 3.1 Do EPROM's go bad? Definitely. They apparently are considered to reliably contain data for (on the outside edge) 15 years. This amount can be considerably reduced if, for example, the sticker over the window has dried out and fallen off. Luckily EPROMs were not used too extensively but they're out there. An EPROM writer/reader is a relatively cheap investment and an easy fix. Even if an EPROM has "forgotten" it's data it is still fine for being "re-educated". 3.2 How about ROMs and other chips? Things wear out. It's likely that even components which have not been fried by catastrophic failure will simply start to die someday. ROMs can be dumped to a file and re-written if they die. Other custom chips which are all too common in micros will be far more difficult to replace. The best advice is to stockpile these chips when you can - but someday even unused chips will probably start to turn up bad. In this case the best defense is to stockpile information in the hope of being able to modify an existing component to meet your needs. 3.3 How about capacitors? This seems to be another large concern, but rather than being an unreplaceable component a capacitor will take your unreplaceable components with it when it goes. It's a good idea to check out all the caps in a system if you haven't fired it up in a while. Caps go bad with time (even tantalum caps, apparently - although they are more reliable) and should be replaced if they are suspect. It's unlikely that it will be impossible to find a replacement capacitor as they are much more standard electronic components. 3.4 Anything else? Documentation: If there's anything which is entirely unreplaceable its the docs for uncommon equipment. Once they're gone, they're gone. I regularly pick up docs I find for equipment I don't have just because I may someday. Paper will, of course. go bad over time but it will be obvious and they will be easily duplicated. Hard Disks: ST-251s, ST-502s, MFM, RLL... old hard disks are going to go bad. Then they'll be gone. Theoretically, I suppose it's possible to crack a hard drive and replace a dead bearing, realign, relaminate, etc... but I've never heard of anyone doing these things in their base- ment. Perhaps in another 5 or 10 years many of us will be experts at this. 3.5 So, how do I back up all this stuff like you suggest? This answer will undoubtedly get longer as I learn more. The best ways seem to be to dump the particular ROM (or whatever) using the approp- riate equipment to a floppy disk (which most of this equipment allows). >From there you can transfer the data to either a CD-ROM - convenient but not long term reliable storage or to mylar tape which may be inconvenient - but the official word on how long it lasts is "Damn near forever." Punch tape units are available and apparently not difficult to use with a PC (PC - the great multi-purpose classic computer peripheral). Optical tape readers are recommended. Recommended products: Tape Writers: Facit 4070, Teletype BRPE. Tape Readers: Trend 700 [][][][][][][][][][] 4.1 Where do I get a system disk for platform X? Since this is a tough one, let me break it down a little: Apple II: System disks for the Apple II are available from Apple at ftp.apple.com. Apple III system disks aren't available although probably will be soon on the ClassicCmp site. Apple Lisa disks aren't availble and probably will not be due to the extreme measure of copy protection used on them. Older Mac system software is availble on the Apple site. CP/M Systems: Ak! These can be a pain. The best source (although I've never actually talked to him) seems to be Don Maslin who runs the Dina-SIG system disk archive. He charges a small fee for the service - which I imagine is well worth the cost! He can be contacted on the internet at . Other systems - let me know. 4.2 What's the best way to back up my software? One of the most promising ways that has come up is to use a PC with a soundcard as a really expensive cassette recorder for data storage. Fundamentally there's not much difference between a real recorder and and a PC equipped with sound. By storing your software in your favorite PC sound file format you can then back up to CD or tape or whatever PC medium you like. Most micros came equipped with the ability to store programs to tape and I would imagine that it would be easy to modify computers without this capability to use one. In addition, the rapid rise in the popularity of emulators has given rise to a number of disk image formats for old machines. In many cases it is possible to read/write disk images for classic computers with modern PCs. [][][][][][][][][][] 5.1 Is it possible to bypass an RF modulator to achieve composite output? Possibly - depending on what you're working on. In the simplest case it is possible to simply run off of the inputs to the modulator right to your monitor. Some setups will apparently require a video amplifier. It has also been suggested that it may help to turn of the termination switch at the monitor. ============================================================================= CREDITS CREDITS CREDITS CREDITS CREDITS ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks go out to the following people for much of this information: (some credited by e-mail handle) Adam Bergstrom Kai Kaltenbach Alexios Chouchoulas Keith Whitehead Captain Napalm Ricardo Romagnoli Chris Starling J. Maynard Gelinas Dave Jenner Douglas Zander George Lin Greg Mast Jay Vaughn Jeff Hellige Jim Strickland Jim Willing Larry Anderson Martin Evans Paul Coad Roger Merchberger Ron Mitchell Sam Ismail Tony (A.R. Duell) William Donzelli ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ============================================================================== From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sat Jan 5 00:56:42 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment Message-ID: <20020105065758.YDPY6105.imf26bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Gene Buckle > How about: "Stupid people suck."? > > > Everyone in this world may not have had the level of > > opportunity ( in education, employment, etc. ) that > > many of you have had. Before coming down on him so hard, > > I would at least be willing to consider "his story"? > > > Level of "opportunity" my butt. He got whatever opportunity he made for > himself. Anything else is entitlement-minded whining. He's a lazy > communicator and is getting slapped around for it. Deal. Gene -- you are right on. Slobs choose to be slobs all on their own, and then they have to deal with being slobs. It's a tough life ;>) Glen 0/0 From frustum at pacbell.net Sat Jan 5 00:59:55 2002 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: PET music (Was: hmm, don't remember what the thread was originally :) In-Reply-To: <20020104230323.18036.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> References: <01C194C7.52CAA6E0@mse-d03> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20020104224859.00bd1600@postoffice.pacbell.net> At 03:03 PM 1/4/02 -0800, Ethan Dicks wrote: >--- M H Stein wrote: > > Not sure what you're looking for here, hardware or software? > >Software. I can reconstruct the hardware I think. > > > Seems to me any S/W not using CB2 would require _some_ kind of special > > hardware, however trivial. > >Yes. A connector, 8 resistors and a jack. Nitpick alert -- Hmm, for your D/A converter to be monotonic, you biggest resistor needs to be accurate to 1 part in 512*, or 0.20% tolerance, then the next one has to be good to 1/256, the next good to 1/128, etc, otherwise the smallest one isn't really doing much. In reality, for this and other reasons, I'd expect you to only really get 6b or so of accuracy. It still beats silence, though. *yes, 512, not 256, because you don't want to blow your entire error budget on the first bit; so let the biggest one use up half the error margin, then the next half of that, etc, such that the sum of each max error is equal to your total error budget. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jan 5 01:01:32 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Almost On-Topic: DEC AHA1742B Firmware In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > I have a large pile of 1740/42 cards, including a few brand new ones. I > could dump the EPROMS if they would help any. I imagine they are mostly > still using the factory versions of their bios and microcode, but I never > have tested any of them. That would be quite nice of you. The EPROMS on mine are dated 1992, and I don't know if this is the part number or the revision code: 450228-00 A This is turning into a Fun Friday after all. Want a PowerBook? Doc From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 5 01:28:55 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Almost On-Topic: DEC AHA1742B Firmware In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > I have a large pile of 1740/42 cards, including a few brand new ones. I > > could dump the EPROMS if they would help any. I imagine they are mostly > > still using the factory versions of their bios and microcode, but I never > > have tested any of them. > > That would be quite nice of you. The EPROMS on mine are dated 1992, > and I don't know if this is the part number or the revision code: > 450228-00 A I have a brand new still shrink wrapped 1740 and software here on my desk. It's not a 174xB, but rather a 1740A. I think the package was supposed to have a manual, but it seems to be missing. Its BIOS chip is labeled "450216-00 A", checksum is DC00. The microcode chip is labeled "450113-00 E", checksum is B7D6. Both have a copyright date of 1992. I'll look for the box of boards and see what other revisions I have. I don't think the 'A' and 'B' boards use the same BIOS and microcode. I may have some other models of Adaptec EISA SCSI boards in the same box, I'll have to look. I tend to collect odd boards for PC stuff to test Linux and BSD drivers. > This is turning into a Fun Friday after all. Want a PowerBook? You don't want it anymore? -Toth From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat Jan 5 01:31:48 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020104233055.037798c0@mail.zipcon.net> Card Edge connector was the parallel port of choice on model 1's, 3's and 4's and vertain model 1000's. Also IIRC the mod 2 , 12 and 16 may ahve had a card-edge parallel port. At 09:56 PM 1/4/02 -0500, you wrote: >>KX-T1225 which seems to be a speed-dialer of some sort. The other is a >>cable with a (Doc ducks & prepares to rub) 36-pin Centronics connector, >>plus eyelet ground, on one end and a female card-edge connector on the >>other. The shrouds are steel, squared, and embossed "TANDY" on both >>ends. While I've never seen one, I'm guessing it's a Tandy printer >>cable. > > That's the general description of the parallel printer cable to > the Tandy 1000-series machines before Tandy switched to a standard > connector on the CPU. I've got one here with my 1000HX. Unfortunately > Tandy used a number of different connectors for the parallel ports of > their early machines, including a dual-row header and the above mentioned > card edge connector. > > Jeff >-- > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.cchaven.com > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat Jan 5 01:35:01 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: PS/2's and other 286's.... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020104132716.04741e60@mail.zipcon.net> References: <02Jan4.134416est.119201@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> < Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020104233444.0377bd90@mail.zipcon.net> Claimed shortly after the message went out :) At 01:28 PM 1/4/02 -0800, you wrote: >Hey! I just discovered that I have a Kingston SLC/NOW, it's a 486SLC2/50 >processor upgrade daughterboard for 286 based systems. it has a Cyrix >FasMath CX387SX-25 mathco on it also. If anyone has use for it, it's >yours for shipping costs. > From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jan 5 02:05:21 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Almost On-Topic: DEC AHA1742B Firmware In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > I have a brand new still shrink wrapped 1740 and software here on my desk. > It's not a 174xB, but rather a 1740A. I think the package was supposed to > have a manual, but it seems to be missing. Its BIOS chip is labeled > "450216-00 A", checksum is DC00. The microcode chip is labeled > "450113-00 E", checksum is B7D6. Both have a copyright date of 1992. I'll > look for the box of boards and see what other revisions I have. I don't > think the 'A' and 'B' boards use the same BIOS and microcode. > > I may have some other models of Adaptec EISA SCSI boards in the same box, > I'll have to look. I tend to collect odd boards for PC stuff to test Linux > and BSD drivers. I forgot to mention that AFAICT, DEC uses custom microcode with these, because when I tried to use the version "I" microcode off Adaptec's site, even OpenVMS 7.2 wouldn't install anymore. My experience with Digital Unix and OpenVMS 7.2 on an Aspen Alpine and a 164LX tend to support that idea. What I'd really like to find is Compaq's archive stash. If any of that still exists. > > This is turning into a Fun Friday after all. Want a PowerBook? > > You don't want it anymore? I didn't want it when I got it. It was part of a package deal, and I already have more Apple stuff than I ever intended to have. I find MacOS not only extremely irritating, but strangely unavoidable. Doc From ernestls at attbi.com Sat Jan 5 02:08:36 2002 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Identify this hard drive? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer > Festival > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 2:30 PM > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > Subject: Identify this hard drive? > > > > These pictures suck but can anyone possibly identify this hard drive? > > http://www.siconic.com/crap/bdisk2_f.jpg > http://www.siconic.com/crap/bdisk2_s.jpg Is it a drive from the old (big) Corvus HD unit? They had clear covers like that. E. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jan 3 20:19:43 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Movie making and distributed robotics References: Message-ID: <3C35113F.60CF1FFD@jetnet.ab.ca> Golemancd@aol.com wrote: > > an os to run the apps as fast as they can run. > no far calls. maybe no swapping. > a dual mode os where i can single task to squeeze > as much performance out as i can and also > switch to mutitasking when needed. > > i robotics os would be to run hundreds of robots. > like a theme park run entirelly by bots where the robots > repair the other bots. > the system would do diagnostics on all the bot like > a bios does on a pc to see if all the hardware is working. > also the give vision to the bot. also many other functions. > > joee You need a real time OS for this. Most bots run best when controlled as a puppet, like in Jurassic Park. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jan 5 02:12:31 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Movie making and distributed robotics In-Reply-To: <3C35113F.60CF1FFD@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > Golemancd@aol.com wrote: > > > > joee > > You need a real time OS for this. > Most bots run best when controlled as a puppet, > like in Jurassic Park. You're a better man than I am, Charlie Brown! Doc From Golemancd at aol.com Sat Jan 5 02:10:53 2002 From: Golemancd at aol.com (Golemancd@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Movie making and distributed robotics Message-ID: <9f.209cd5cb.29680f0d@aol.com> the idea is to have the robot take care of itself. just refer to the master os for references and instructions. master os will be used like a server. server of info, directions, traffic directions , scripts, etc. like a co-ordinator. to direct everything that is going on. for example like a forman on a building site. the forman gives everyone their job and they go to it. if there are any questions you refer back to him. or when you are finished your job, you refer to him and he gives you another one. and the forman monitors everything in progress. if he sees something that isnt going correctly, he may step in and give other instructions. joee From vance at ikickass.org Sat Jan 5 01:31:37 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020104173539.023d2740@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Matthew Sell wrote: > Too difficult - compared to what? > > I'm approaching this idea from a position of ignorance. That gives me a > better shot at it. Too difficult as opposed to writing it from scratch as straight VMS. > Maybe - maybe not. But I *will* learn quite a bit regarding kernel design. > That can't be bad - even if the idea doesn't go anywhere. > > I personally think the attempt would be a lot more beneficial than anything > else. Just mucking around with the NetBSD kernel would be very > interesting...... Agreed, but trying to make NetBSD into VMS would be asking for pain. In large quantities. And it would be a mess. Peace... Sridhar From CLeyson at aol.com Sat Jan 5 02:10:45 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3200SX Question Message-ID: <8d.11ef4628.29680f05@aol.com> On Sat, 5 Jan 2002 tothwolf@concentric.net wrote: >> Standard twisted pair ribbon cable terminated with a 26 way 0.1in >> pitch IDC transition connector which is soldered to the board. I will >> probably cut the cable and remove the connector (one pin at a time) >> and replace with a standard IDC plug and socket. >Why not just desolder the connector? Braid works well for some of those >plated through boards, just watch the heat or it can lift the pads. I managed to dismantle the plasma display and all of the cables can be disconnected at the display end. It would have been a lot easier to fit PSU and mother board connectors as well. Just have to clean up the mother board now. Chris From CLeyson at aol.com Sat Jan 5 02:26:10 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3200SX Question Message-ID: <12a.a20c3b6.296812a2@aol.com> On Sat, 5 Jan 2002 tothwolf@concentric.net wrote: >> BTW, I worked with a guy who accidentally recharged an AA sized >> Lithium battery. It left shrapnel in the wall and he is still slighty >> deaf in one ear. >Do I dare ask *how* one accidentally recharges a lithium battery? By powering a battery powered PCB from a bench supply and forgetting to remove the battery jumper. Careless. Chris From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 5 02:37:02 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Almost On-Topic: DEC AHA1742B Firmware In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > I forgot to mention that AFAICT, DEC uses custom microcode with these, > because when I tried to use the version "I" microcode off Adaptec's > site, even OpenVMS 7.2 wouldn't install anymore. My experience with > Digital Unix and OpenVMS 7.2 on an Aspen Alpine and a 164LX tend to > support that idea. What I'd really like to find is Compaq's archive > stash. If any of that still exists. I don't know if the boards I have were used in DEC or PC machines. I bought them as I found them, as is. Never have tested them. I know a few are even missing their EPROM chips. > I didn't want it when I got it. It was part of a package deal, and I > already have more Apple stuff than I ever intended to have. I find > MacOS not only extremely irritating, but strangely unavoidable. Ah, that explains it...I don't really mind MacOS, but I don't think I'd want to use it on a daily basis. I don't think I could ever give up my Linux systems now. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 5 02:39:53 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3200SX Question In-Reply-To: <12a.a20c3b6.296812a2@aol.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jan 2002 CLeyson@aol.com wrote: > On Sat, 5 Jan 2002 tothwolf@concentric.net wrote: > > >> BTW, I worked with a guy who accidentally recharged an AA sized > >> Lithium battery. It left shrapnel in the wall and he is still slighty > >> deaf in one ear. > > >Do I dare ask *how* one accidentally recharges a lithium battery? > > By powering a battery powered PCB from a bench supply and forgetting > to remove the battery jumper. Careless. Not to mention dangerous. Sounds like the design should have had a diode in the battery circuit to prevent that kind of accident. -Toth From pjschilling at gcstech.net Sat Jan 5 03:12:26 2002 From: pjschilling at gcstech.net (Phil Schilling) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My, that means my Vax 6000 isn't? Phil Merle K. Peirce wrote: > If it doesn't have wheels, it isn't really a computer. oh good!!! my celeron linux server *has* wheels :^) From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat Jan 5 03:57:16 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Identify this hard drive? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020105015701.02eac050@mail.zipcon.net> Looks kinda like a kennedy At 12:08 AM 1/5/02 -0800, you wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer > > Festival > > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 2:30 PM > > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > > Subject: Identify this hard drive? > > > > > > > > These pictures suck but can anyone possibly identify this hard drive? > > > > http://www.siconic.com/crap/bdisk2_f.jpg > > http://www.siconic.com/crap/bdisk2_s.jpg > >Is it a drive from the old (big) Corvus HD unit? They had clear covers like >that. > >E. From spedraja at ono.com Sat Jan 5 03:37:04 2002 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Sequent Symmetry S2000-450 Message-ID: <012c01c195cc$897381c0$0101a8c0@gw.cavorita.net> Hello everybody. It's possible I could obtain one Sequent Symmetry S2000-450 in a relatively short place. A similar system can be viewed in this eBay address: http://cgi.ebay.de/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1311505028&ed=1009557004 The system comes complete, with software, hardware and documentation. It need three pallets to be transported. There is another opportunity to get one Sequent Symmetry S5000 that uses 4 Pentium processors and 1 Gb of memory, but this is in private negotiation. Do Somebody has information about these systems ? They appears to use Four processors 486, a Numa architecture to share memory, and one version of Unix named Dynix. Is there some porting of the Gnu utilities to it ? Thanks and Greetings. Sergio -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020105/af810d07/attachment.html From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 5 04:18:51 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > The 2 things I can't really identify are a Panasonic Easa-Phone, > KX-T1225 which seems to be a speed-dialer of some sort. The other is a > cable with a (Doc ducks & prepares to rub) 36-pin Centronics connector, > plus eyelet ground, on one end and a female card-edge connector on the > other. The shrouds are steel, squared, and embossed "TANDY" on both > ends. While I've never seen one, I'm guessing it's a Tandy printer > cable. It's a printer cable for a model 1000. I looked through the cables I have, and I found 3x 22-222, and 2x 22-1259. They look identical, but based on the information I found in the Tandy 1000-series FAQ they are made for different printers. Theres no way that I know of to identify this cable without pinning it out. Tandy 1000-series FAQ: http://www.oldskool.org/~tvdog/1kfaq.html#II.H.2 -Toth From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jan 5 09:49:13 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >It's a printer cable for a model 1000. I looked through the cables I have, >and I found 3x 22-222, and 2x 22-1259. They look identical, but based on >the information I found in the Tandy 1000-series FAQ they are made for >different printers. Theres no way that I know of to identify this cable >without pinning it out. The printer cable I have with my 1000HX has a yellow band on it with Tandy p/n 26-289. This is the cable for IBM-style printer interfaces, vice Tandy interfaces which used p/n 22-222, among others. The following links go to Tandy documents talking about the choice of printer cables: http://support.tandy.com/support_accessories/doc4/4263.htm http://support.tandy.com/support_accessories/doc4/4000.htm The cables are for the 1000-series, except for the RL, RLX, and TL/3. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jan 5 09:54:06 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020104233055.037798c0@mail.zipcon.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020104233055.037798c0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: >Card Edge connector was the parallel port of choice on model 1's, >3's and 4's and vertain model 1000's. Also IIRC the mod 2 , 12 and >16 may ahve had a card-edge parallel port. Just pulled both my Tandy 1000 cable and my 26-1401. The 1401 is still in it's display bag and shows it is for the Model I/III/4/4P/4D. It is a 6' ribbon cable, with the card edge connector on one end and the centronics-style connector on the other. My Model 1000 parallel cable carries p/n 26-289 and the connectors LOOK identical, though the cable and connectors are shielded vice being a bare ribbon cable. This cable is a 6' cable meant for non-Tandy printers with an IBM-style interface. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jan 5 10:20:20 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Model 2 and 100 used a dual row header, and of course, the PC clones used > > an "RS-232 connector" :-) > Right, the model 2 typically used a ribbon cable with IDC connectors. I > have one of these with its DWP printer out in storage :) Not to be picky (well, OK, I do tend to be :-), "IDC" stands/stood for "Insulation Displacement Conector", which meant virtually ANY crimp-on connector, INCLUDING the card edge connector on drive cables for 5.25, and the computer end of model 1,3,4 printer cables when they used ribbon cable. Since the "centronics" connector (Amphenol Blue Ribbon 36 pin) wasn't very available in IDC, those cables were kinda hoky, with either a non ribbon "centronics" soldered to ribbon cable, or a card edge crimped onto spread out non-ribbon cable. The one model 2 cable that I remember using (20 yrs ago) did NOT have IDC connector. It was a round cable (I don't know whether it was shielded), with a 20 pin dual row header sloppily put onto the end. From rhblakeman at kih.net Sat Jan 5 10:50:43 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Speaking of these, I located a blue ribbon cable with a card edge on one side, centronics on the other - I beleive it was for a Tandy printer on possibly a model 4. Been in storage for years and anyone that wants it can have it for $1 over the cost of mailing (should be very light, probably can go first class mail). The $1 is to cover what I gave for it. It's small enough that it could even go outside the US cheaply. Contact me off-list at rhblakeman@kih.net if you want more info or want it. I have to get a money order in US fund s for it, or Paypal for the amount plus a buck for the Paypal fee (it would be $2 plus shipping in that case, still cheap) -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 10:20 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable > > Model 2 and 100 used a dual row header, and of course, the PC clones used > > an "RS-232 connector" :-) > Right, the model 2 typically used a ribbon cable with IDC connectors. I > have one of these with its DWP printer out in storage :) Not to be picky (well, OK, I do tend to be :-), "IDC" stands/stood for "Insulation Displacement Conector", which meant virtually ANY crimp-on connector, INCLUDING the card edge connector on drive cables for 5.25, and the computer end of model 1,3,4 printer cables when they used ribbon cable. Since the "centronics" connector (Amphenol Blue Ribbon 36 pin) wasn't very available in IDC, those cables were kinda hoky, with either a non ribbon "centronics" soldered to ribbon cable, or a card edge crimped onto spread out non-ribbon cable. The one model 2 cable that I remember using (20 yrs ago) did NOT have IDC connector. It was a round cable (I don't know whether it was shielded), with a 20 pin dual row header sloppily put onto the end. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jan 5 10:34:56 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > >If I remember correctly (it's been about 20 years), it was part number > > >26-1401? > > I'd have to pull my Mod III or 4p but I believe there's a > > difference between their card edge connector for the parallel printer > > port and that of the 1000-series machines. > OK. This cable has no p/n at all. The card edge connector is 2.25 > inches wide, 0.5 inches thick, and shows insertion marks to a depth of > ~0.5 inches. The female card-edge slot is 34 pins, and 1.8 inches wide. I'd be VERY interested in knowing WHAT differences there are. The 26-1401 fits a "standard" 34 pin card edge, just like the floppy drive (RS had lots of problems with people connecting things to the wrong port!) There could be pinout differences that need to be buzzed out. Somebody said that there were different cables for Non-Tandy printers. I'd be very interested in more detail on that, since the only difference that I remember was that RS configured all of their printers for auto LF after CR, but that they were otherwise completely interchangeable, and "standard Centronics port". > If anybody wants it, it's theirs for postage. I keep thinking I want a > TRS-80, but I keep not getting one. It's too bad that there wasn't a VCF this year. That's where I usually parted with TRS-80s. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jan 5 11:21:12 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I'd be VERY interested in knowing WHAT differences there are. The 26-1401 >fits a "standard" 34 pin card edge, just like the floppy drive (RS had >lots of problems with people connecting things to the wrong port!) > >There could be pinout differences that need to be buzzed out. I no longer have the pinouts for the various TRS-80/Tandy printer ports. I've got the pinouts for the 1000HX and the 2000, but that's it. The 26-1401 isn't keyed at all either so it'd be easy enough to plug it in upside down. The later shielded cables for the 1000-series have 'Top' embossed on the metal shield around the connector. >Somebody said that there were different cables for Non-Tandy >printers. I'd be very interested in more detail on that, since the only >difference that I remember was that RS configured all of their printers >for auto LF after CR, but that they were otherwise completely >interchangeable, and "standard Centronics port". The links to Tandy's own documentation suggests the need for the different cables depending on what printer type is used. Some of their later printers did have an option switch which did allow you to choose between Tandy and IBM modes, afaik. Maybe it was something as simple as the LF and CR being different. That's been enough of a difference to cause problems with text editors and such between systems in the past. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From donm at cts.com Sat Jan 5 14:00:35 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > Hi. > I picked up a 35lb load of mostly Mac-related cast-offs last night, > and scored many cool objets de junque. > The 2 things I can't really identify are a Panasonic Easa-Phone, > KX-T1225 which seems to be a speed-dialer of some sort. The other is a > cable with a (Doc ducks & prepares to rub) 36-pin Centronics connector, > plus eyelet ground, on one end and a female card-edge connector on the > other. The shrouds are steel, squared, and embossed "TANDY" on both > ends. While I've never seen one, I'm guessing it's a Tandy printer > cable. Quite right. Also usable on the Morrow MD-x series if you pay attention to the location of the ground contacts. IIRC, it goes on the MD card edge upside down. - don > The rest of the haul is mostly OT, but see gimme list below: > > working SyQuest 88MB drive & some cartridges > cordless 3-button mouse > a whole bag of the fabled 800K floppies > 2 copies of FWB's Hard Disk Toolkit (one is even on-topic, I think. > System 6.0 bootable disk) The newer version came with docs > CharisMac Anubis that I can't date, but there's NO version info in the > docs, copyright is 1989-1996 > Astarte Toast CD-ROM Pro v3, in original box but no docs > Adobe PageMill v2.0, no docs no key > Adobe Photo Deluxe no docs > Adobe Illustator v6 no docs no key (Waahhh!!!) > A couple of NuBus ethernet adapters, one with its right-angle adapter > A loose right-angle NuBus adapters with *2* female connectors > several Apple-AUI/10B2 transceivers > 14400 (no AC adapter) SupraFax modem (needs 9V AC PSU) > 33.6 SupraExpress modem with all its parts > GeoPort Telecom Adapter - first one I've found in the wild > 2 28.8 SupraExpress modems, intact > 1998 revision of the "Mac Upgrade and Repair Bible" with its CD. > > Not bad for free. The transceivers, the 14.4 modem, the Tandy cable > and all the NuBus cards are all up for adoption; the rest is probably > available for trade if you need something. > All this because I gave $35 for a PowerBook 145B I didn't want and the > QuickTake 150 (with all its docs, disks, and a NIB Battery Booster Pack) > that I did want last week. Yee Haw. > > Doc > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jan 5 11:06:13 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Lithium/Lithium-ion batteries Message-ID: OK, I've been watching the thread for a couple of days about battery damage. I just realized what's confusing me. I'm also fully aware that I'm about to expose the true depth of my electronic ignorance. "Never recharge a lithium battery?" (Yes, I've also been watching the grammar thread.) My laptop has lithium-ion batteries. That Apple camera came with "Energizer Hi-Energy Lithium" AA cells that I was planning to stick in the wall-wart battery charger. I'm fairly certain they're _meant_ to be rechargeable. I think I'm missing a crucial concept here. As they say in West Texas, "Could somebody please 'splain this wonderment to me?" Doc From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Jan 5 14:01:59 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Lithium/Lithium-ion batteries References: Message-ID: <3C375BB7.8E7DAC62@tiac.net> Lithium Ion (secondary) batteries are rechargable. Lithium (primary) batteries are not rechargable. Recharging lithium ion batteries in laptops is a very complex operation, and a somewhat dangerous one as well. A conventional 18650 LiIon battery cell has a substancial explosive yield, if mistreated! Doc Shipley wrote: > OK, I've been watching the thread for a couple of days about battery > damage. I just realized what's confusing me. I'm also fully aware that > I'm about to expose the true depth of my electronic ignorance. > > "Never recharge a lithium battery?" (Yes, I've also been watching the > grammar thread.) > > My laptop has lithium-ion batteries. That Apple camera came with > "Energizer Hi-Energy Lithium" AA cells that I was planning to stick in > the wall-wart battery charger. I'm fairly certain they're _meant_ to be > rechargeable. > > I think I'm missing a crucial concept here. As they say in West > Texas, "Could somebody please 'splain this wonderment to me?" > > Doc From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jan 5 06:33:12 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Language and English References: Message-ID: <001301c195e5$24322500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" To: "Classic Computers" Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 9:04 PM Subject: Re: Language and English > >Chris, nobody would beat you up for trying to improve himself. Having a few > >weaknesses is one thing. Defending them is another. Blaming someone else > >for you having them is worse yet. > > I'm not trying to defend lazy writing skills. I'm not directly trying to > blame others either (although, I think a chunk of initial poor writing > skills of any kind can be pinned back to improper or poor education. You > can't fault the student, if the teachers failed to teach the right thing). > > >I'll repeat: Make it easy for them to see what you mean in what you write by > >taking a little extra care. It's important. Learn to do it well. > > I agree 100%... but do you mean to say that EVERYONE that uses email has > an IQ over 120, and can be expected to master writing skills? Granted, > chances are if you are on THIS list, you might be above average, but I am > talking more in general (as I am sure some of the correction offenders do > this in more places than here) > No. First of all, anyone with an IQ above about 75 should have no trouble at all with today's email tools. Secondly, anyone with an IQ at or about 75 can get through the present education system with straight A's if he shows up for class and does the assigned work. > >It's never too late to improve, but YOU have to do it, else it won't happen. > > No, it isn't too late, but there comes a time when improvement will stop, > because a person can do no better. Or, improvement will stop, because the > person logically chooses to attempt to do no better, because they have > achieved a level that is "good enough", and their time can be better > spent on other things. (ie: read Strunk and White, or better your job > skills) > Yes, improvement will stop when you stop trying to improve. > > I am not trying to defend myself, or say that any of this is about me. I > want to make that clear... other than poor spelling, I am unaware of any > serious language infractions I have ever committed on this list... and > when writing anything other than email, I personally rely heavily on > spell and grammar checkers... specifically to avoid having my writing > make me seem like an ass... I want the honor of making me an ass to be > totally on WHAT I write, not HOW I write. > Unfortunately, that's not how it is. How you present yourself to the list determines how (and whether) you'll be perceived. How you write determines whether people will read it. > > I just want some of the hard core language nazi's to realize that > sometimes, they should just let it go. If you can't understand what was > written, delete it, ignore it, whatever. Friendly constructive criticism > is fine... but do it in jest, don't be a dick about it (this isn't saying > YOU are a dick about it, no pun intended Richard, just in general, PEOPLE > should not make federal crimes out of it... well, at least not until it > has spun so badly off topic that it has become interesting and fun in it > own right, like this thread). > > So if you can't understand it because it is so poorly written, you might > be better off just ignoring it or deleting it. And if you are the person > that wrote that way, and no one responds, maybe you should consider > following more traditional writing styles, and check your grammar and > spelling. And for those that can't do that (English, or the language of > the group, is not their first language, and their skills in general are > poor), they should mention that up front. > Someone else pointed out that if you don't consider the list worth the effort of writing well for it, there's no reason why the list readers should bother with your writing. Does that make sense to you? The people who write for the list but whose language skills in English are limited take quite a bit of trouble to do the best they can. They don't make excuses or blame their educational system. They DO THE WORK! > > I just don't think highly of people that quote an email specifically to > point out writing errors in it. It has never convinced me of anything > except that the quote corrector is an arrogant self righteous a-hole. > However, if they were to be friendly about it, and do the correction in a > tongue in cheek manner, then the original author would get the idea they > should be more careful (and probably learn a few things), and the > corrector would come off as being more friendly. > What you're saying to the readers of the list is, "You should read what I have to say, though I'm not willing to make sure it's clearly or properly presented." I find it hard to imagine that you could offer content that would justify the effort, Chris. > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jan 5 06:36:46 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Language and English References: <01C19576.D755F9A0@mse-d03> Message-ID: <001d01c195e5$a3e7a040$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, I was giving the guy the benefit of the doubt. I figured someone had fixed the shift key and punctuation keys on his typewriter by now. As for the other remark, I'd say we should keep it clean. We don't want the kids to think that adults express themselves in that way. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "M H Stein" To: "'ClassicComputers'" Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 9:22 PM Subject: Language and English > Well, I DO want to nitpick; never thought I'd come to > Dick's defense, but nothing wrong with *E*.*E*. Cummings > AFAIK: > > http://www.gvsu.edu/english/cummings/caps.htm > > Any statistics available on what percentage of text on > this list actually concerns computers? Often amusing and > occasionally interesting though; particularly ironic > that almost all replies criticizing spelling, etc. also > contained at least one typo or spelling/grammar error... > (not to mention Doc's 'e.e' criticism) > > C'mon, guys (since the gals are obviously more mature), isn't > this getting a little nasty for a friendly group like this? > Free speech, diversity of opinions, yes, but do we need words > like a**hole? > > mike > (In .ca despite usa.net address :) > -----------------Original Message--------------------- > Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 11:05:43 -0600 (CST) > From: Doc > Subject: Re: Language and English > > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > If you insist on writing in a style reminiscent of E. E. Cummings poetry, > > you may find that your messages are read by readers of this forum with about > > the same frequency as E.E. Cummings' work, which might be a shame, in case > > you really do have something significant to contribute. or in case I'm the > > only one who doesn't read much Cummings. > > Nah, I like ee cummings. And not to nitpick, but your rendering of > his name is incorrect. > > I submit further that none of the mortals on the classiccmp list have > evolved to that literary level. > *** > Umm... a somewhat sweeping generalization... > mike > *** > > > Doc > > > From at258 at osfn.org Sat Jan 5 07:34:32 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <010201c19598$b2695660$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: All this discussion makes me want to go searching for Turabian. I also remember of very nice little manual -The Little, Brown Handbook. I also have a Navy manual of style somewhere. On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Hey! That's not you're meaning, isn't it? > > When I was a student, the "bible" was Campbell's Form and Style in Thesis > Writing. I may actually still have my original copy. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lawrence Walker" > To: "Ethan Dicks" ; > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:57 PM > Subject: Re: Language and English > > > > I would doubt, altho I've been pleasantly surprised at the depth of > knowledge > > of the participants on this list, if many are acquainted to the "writers > bible", > > "The Elements of Style" by Stronk and White. The title gives the clue. These > > are sugestions not rules. Fred is saying that typography did lay down a set > > of rules to be followed if you were going to print and that this had little > to do > > with grammar. eg: 2 spaces after an end of sentence. > > > > Lawrence > > > > Damn !! I can't believe I'm a willing contributor to this OT dribble. > Possibly > > because it's as comfortable as a favorite BBS. Maybe we should set up > > another mail-list "classiccomp.dribble" and hope it doesn't suffer the fate > of > > the short-lived "discoveries on E-bay" one which rose out of a flame-war. At > > least it would cut down the list msgs. to reasonable proportions. From my > > point of view I could live with a split between micro and mini as I tend to > > automatically delete anything with DEC (and not appended with Rainbow), > > VAX, or VMS. Tho at times I'm able to actually able to understand what is > > being talked about. I know !!! You'se guys are just setting me up to be a > mini > > collector. You have no more room for your own passion and you just want to > > spread the disease. LOL. > > > > Lawrence > > > > > > > > --- "r. 'bear' stricklin" wrote: > > > > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Stan Barr wrote: > > > > > > > > > It's one of the syntax elements of standard written English... > > > > > > > > These are all _typesetting_ rules, and not so much grammar rules. > > > > > > It's all part of syntax and style, not grammar as you say. How many > > > people on this list ever turned in a paper where the teacher/professor > > > insisted on strict adherence to "Strunk and White"? > > > > > > > Many early typewriters, in an attempt to reduce mechanical complexity to > > > > the utmost, even lack differentiated type for the numerals '1' and '0' > > > > as either can be suitably approximated in typewritten documents by the > > > > lowercase letter 'l' and the uppercase letter 'O', respectively. > > > > > > On Topic: my mother's IBM Selectric type balls do not all contain a > > > different facet for "1" (one) and "l" (ell). She had a 2"x4" plastic > > > clip-on key guide for some type balls. ISTR that if you pressed the > > > "1" key, you got some sort of bracket with the Courier ball installed. > > > > > > > Even the American English "rule" of placing all punctuation inside > > > > quotation marks is a _typographical convention_ that stems from the > early days > > > > of movable type, when the period and comma were the most fragile pieces > of > > > > type and were prone to breaking off in the press. > > > > > > > Example: > > > > > > > > At the SCM prompt, type, "SHOW BOOT." > > > > > > > > At the SCM prompt, type, "SHOW BOOT". > > > > > > > > Which one is correct? > > > > > > This exact convention is discussed in "The New Hacker's Dictionary". It > > > mentions that American English convention is to put punctuation inside > > > the quotation marks (but does not give any explanation), and that > > > Hacker usage prefers things in quotes to be the literal thing you type > > > at the computer. I tend toward the modern usage, but I _do_ know the > > > difference. > > > > > > -ethan > > > > > > P.S. - in answer to an earlier question asked of the group in general, > yes, I > > > have taken Latin. It was a required course (as I think it still should > be, > > > everywhere, as it once was). I did not attend a public high-school, > however. > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > > > http://greetings.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > Reply to: > > lgwalker@mts.net > > > > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From at258 at osfn.org Sat Jan 5 07:41:32 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <01C19576.D755F9A0@mse-d03> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, M H Stein wrote: > Any statistics available on what percentage of text on > this list actually concerns computers? Often amusing and > occasionally interesting though; particularly ironic > that almost all replies criticizing spelling, etc. also > contained at least one typo or spelling/grammar error... > (not to mention Doc's 'e.e' criticism) I find this discussion very on topic. My area of interest is the effect of computers on writing and word processing. From mythtech at Mac.com Sat Jan 5 11:29:15 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: Language and English Message-ID: >Secondly, anyone with an IQ at or about 75 can >get through the present education system with straight A's if he shows up for >class and does the assigned work. ROFL... sad but true. >What you're saying to the readers of the list is, "You should read what I >have >to say, though I'm not willing to make sure it's clearly or properly >presented." I find it hard to imagine that you could offer content that >would >justify the effort, Chris. Ok... Richard, Dick, whatever you like to call yourself. You sit here claiming to be this great writer and reader... yet it seems you have NO F-ING memory. If you care to go back over the various posts on this thread, you will see that I am NOT the person that was using poor writing skills. Rather, all I said was, to the language die hards, don't forget the possibility that what you got *might* have been the best the person was capable of. I never said the one this was all about (I won't mention names... I'll leave that up to an exercise to your god like reading skills), was writing to the best of HIS ability (he might be, but he seems to have indicated that he writes the way he does by choice... fine by me). But somewhere, you seemed to have translated this into ME be the offender of writing poor emails... despite the fact, that I have tried to point out to you numerous times, that this thread HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ME. (did you get that, or should I print it in another format, one your perfect writing skills would use, so maybe your reading skills can pick it up as well) So... maybe your reading comprehension is bad, maybe you suffer from serious memory deficiencies... I have no idea... but until you can figure out that we are talking CONCEPTUAL here, and NOT ACTUAL... I will cease to discuss the matter with you. Have a nice day :-) -chris From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Sat Jan 5 07:02:54 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020104111212.03423280@127.0.0.1> References: <200201041536.g04FaNr91715@bg-tc-ppp438.monmouth.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020103203106.028fc0c0@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020105235753.023a92e8@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 11:14 AM 4/01/2002 -0600, Matthew Sell wrote: >Don't forget that FreeBSD already runs on the VAX, and FreeVMS (in my >project concept) would be an extension and implementation of the existing >FreeBSD kernel so that it "looks and feels" like VMS. At what sort of level do you want the "look and feel" to be at. If it's just DCL then this might not be so difficult, but once you want to add the OpenVMS API (system services, libraries, I/O, SMP, Clustering) it would be exceedingly difficult to take a Unix core and add all this in a compatible way so that some of the programs I tend to write would work. I guess you're going to try to make a FreeVMS for VAX clone, emulating 64 bits on a 32 bit machine would be a project killer from the start. I really think if you want VMS buy a VAX or an Alpha (there are lots of cheap, small systems around - I have a VLC4000, DEC2000 and a PWS500au that cost less than AUD$1000 in total and the 500au was most of the cost). Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Jan 5 08:54:48 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:14 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020105235753.023a92e8@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Huw Davies wrote: > way so that some of the programs I tend to write would work. I guess you're > going to try to make a FreeVMS for VAX clone, emulating 64 bits on a 32 bit > machine would be a project killer from the start. Weren't there vaxen that didnt support the 64bit instructions? From reading (excessively) the VAX Architecure Handbook, I seem to also remember it saying that the address space was only 32bits. I could easily be wrong, and it woudn't suprise me too much. Anyways, FreeVMS on a Sun Enterprise 10k (or S/390 -- zSeries) would be cool, if not horribly wrong. :P Personally (as I stated in my original post) I don't know much about VMS, yet, I was just trying to throw some ideas off the top of my head. -- Pat From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Jan 5 08:37:40 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Matthew Sell wrote: > > > >be possible to do one of the following options: > > > > > >1) Stick an 'emulation' user-mode shell on top of some free *nix > > > > > >2) Take a stock free *nix kernel, and modify it to work more like VMS. > > > > That was the idea. I thought of taking FreeBSD, and add device drivers for > > peripherals and filesystems, as well as implementing the "shell". > > > > I do have various VAXen to test this on. > > You might be able to get the feel of VMS, but getting all the neat > features of VMS (decnet, clustering, binary compatibility) would be highly > problematic. Plus administration would be a completely different animal. Binary compatibility between a peecee running 'FreeVMS' (one possibility for hardware and OpenVMS on a VAX/Alpha??? I know I didn't mean that, and I don't think that the author did either. I was thinking of this as being something to let you run pseudo-VMS on something cheap but relatively fast (peecee or whatever). > > > >Of course, the problem is deciding what ONE kernel to use (prolly BSD or > > >Linux 2.??), and how to trim down the kernel to a small set of drivers for > > >testing it. > > > > I was thinking about using FreeBSD, simply for the availability of many > > platform ports, including VAX. > > If you want BSD that works the same on all sorts of hardware, FreeBSD is > not it. It's too x86-centric. Look at NetBSD http://www.netbsd.org/ If you had read more of his posts yesterday, you would see he said he meant 'NetBSD'. > Peace... Sridhar > that is all. -- Pat From vance at ikickass.org Sat Jan 5 12:28:06 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Matthew Sell wrote: > > > > > >be possible to do one of the following options: > > > > > > > >1) Stick an 'emulation' user-mode shell on top of some free *nix > > > > > > > >2) Take a stock free *nix kernel, and modify it to work more like VMS. > > > > > > That was the idea. I thought of taking FreeBSD, and add device drivers for > > > peripherals and filesystems, as well as implementing the "shell". > > > > > > I do have various VAXen to test this on. > > > > You might be able to get the feel of VMS, but getting all the neat > > features of VMS (decnet, clustering, binary compatibility) would be highly > > problematic. Plus administration would be a completely different animal. > > Binary compatibility between a peecee running 'FreeVMS' (one > possibility for hardware and OpenVMS on a VAX/Alpha??? I know I didn't > mean that, and I don't think that the author did either. I was thinking > of this as being something to let you run pseudo-VMS on something cheap > but relatively fast (peecee or whatever). No, binary compatibility between a VAX running FreeVMS and one running VMS. Peace... Sridhar From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jan 5 09:59:52 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >NetBSD works better on the VAX. I suggest that you check it out. It runs >on a far wider variety of hardware than FreeBSD. Not that I intend to remove VMS from my VAX, but does NetBSD support 3rd party disk controllers, such as the Dilog ESDI setup that I have on mine? Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Sat Jan 5 07:33:33 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1 In-Reply-To: <3C36A0D1.521BE3C5@rain.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020106003105.023a92e8@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 10:44 PM 4/01/2002 -0800, you wrote: >With so much OT stuff going on, this FAQ might be interesting reading >for some of the newer members of this listserver. And just for the sake >of curiosity, who has been on the list the longest? I joined sometime >around June 5, 1997. The earliest message I have archived from the list dates from 1997 but that's probably when I moved from using Pine under Unix to Eudora. I suspect (fear?) that I've been around a little longer on the list.... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jan 5 08:33:15 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1 In-Reply-To: <3C36A0D1.521BE3C5@rain.org> References: <3C36A0D1.521BE3C5@rain.org> Message-ID: >With so much OT stuff going on, this FAQ might be interesting reading >for some of the newer members of this listserver. And just for the sake >of curiosity, who has been on the list the longest? I joined sometime >around June 5, 1997. According to the archives, the first message was posted by Bill Whitson on March 13, 1997 welcoming everyone to the list. Jim Willing posted a reply shortly thereafter and I posted a rather lame reply to him, as I hadn't quite grasped how the email list worked yet. Tony and Roger are right there at the beginning as well. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From at258 at osfn.org Sat Jan 5 07:46:12 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: Fwd: those who asked. golemancd pc collection In-Reply-To: <11f.9952cfb.2967e756@aol.com> Message-ID: Where are you, joee? On Sat, 5 Jan 2002 Golemancd@aol.com wrote: > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Sat Jan 5 08:14:50 2002 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: HP2000 available for login yet? Message-ID: While we're on the HP 2000 subject: Drug home two more HP1000s (first cousin to the 2000) last wekend. Both systems were mounted in racks and seemed to be fairly complete. The first system was a HP3095 test system. The 3095 series are used in conjunction with a bed-of-nails for the automated testing of boards and assemblys. The system included a HP7914 HD/TAPE combo, 768K of RAM, multiple HPIB interfaces, 8 port TTY card, I/O expansion chassis, misc other I/O cards (unknown). I was hoping that the RTE system was still installed on the disk but, looks like it won't be recoverable. The disk sounded like a coffee grinder when I applied power... Bummer :-( For some reason, the CPU was missing the ROM. I managed to steal the ROM from another box and now the CPU runs OK. The second system was a vibration analyzer. It included a basic computer, D/A and A/D interfaces, a 8" floppy drive, X/Y display, and system controller. There were no disks with this drive either which leaves me without an OS. If anyone knows where to find DOCs for a "HP5478C system interface" or "HP5477C system controller", I'd appreciate the info. From what I can tell, the system interface is a multiple channel DAC and the controller provides some external switching capability. I'd really like to know more about these. That box has a bad power supply. There's a red indicator on the front of the PS that just stays lit when power is applied. I think this is a fault indicator. There are no voltages on the backplane of that box. I stole the ROM from this box to get the other one going. I know where there is a 1000 crate that's mostly stripped. The panel, and all the cards have been removed but, the PS may be intact. If so, I should be able to liberate the PS. >From what I understand, the ROMS on the 1000 are not easy to dup. They have ID labels over the markings so, I can't even tell what kind of devices they are. Has anyone had experience dupping the ROMs from a 1000? I have tried to download the HP BASIC tapes from Jeff's site but cannot get them to work. The format doesn't look quite right and they fail the checksum test. Has anyone had any luck downloading those tapes and installing on a 1000? So... At this point, I have two working HP1000s, lots of I/O cards, a spare create for parts, and a bunch of other goodies. BTW: I know where there are some more systems. Probably go back this week and get more. See ya, SteveRob >From: "Mike Gortych" >Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >To: >Subject: HP2000 available for login yet? >Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 19:55:34 -0500 > >Saw some posts back in August that Jay got his 2000 up and running, just >wondering if it was available to for a guest to login and reminisce. > >Thanks! >Mike _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From mgortych at ntplx.com Sat Jan 5 09:55:48 2002 From: mgortych at ntplx.com (Mike Gortych) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: HP2000 available for login yet? Message-ID: <000601c19601$791f4270$0314a8c0@jupiter2> Steve, Did you use the HP2000 in school? I used to work at a board of education in northern NJ and we used to provide timeshare services to many schools in the area. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020105/648f1e24/attachment.html From vaxman at earthlink.net Sat Jan 5 09:12:36 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: Ultrix 4.4 and VaxStation 3100 In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146746E@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: I just checked out the 1.5.2 release notes for NetBSD, and it appears they now support the monochrome graphics console, but not the 4 or 8 plane graphics console. http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/vax/models.html#pvax I haven't played with it (still working on the 200 Amp service upgrade), but previous versions would boot to the point of displaying the NetBSD banner, show the sizes of the segments, then the display would blank and nothing more would happen. Give the new version a shot, I'd love to hear what happens... Clint On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > > ! -----Original Message----- > ! From: Clint Wolff (VAX collector) [mailto:vaxman@earthlink.net] > ! > ! > ! The last I heard, NetBSD didn't support any sort of graphics console. > ! Not even as a text only console... > ! > ! Clint > ! > ! On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > ! > ! > ! From: Jochen Kunz [mailto:jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de] > ! > ! > ! > ! > ! > ! > (assuming X11 worked on > ! > ! > the Vaxstation 3100 under Ultrix -- I assume it would.) > ! > ! AFAIK the SPX graphics was not supported, only the mono and GPX > ! > ! framebuffers. > ! > > ! > So there is some chance of NetBSD/Xwindows running on my > ! > b&w 3100m38? > ! > > ! > --- David A Woyciesjes > > So, the monitor and keyboard hooked directly to the back of the VAXStation > 3100 M38 is not a text only console? What kind of console is it then? > > --- David A Woyciesjes > --- C & IS Support Specialist > --- Yale University Press > --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu > --- (203) 432-0953 > --- ICQ # - 905818 > From vaxman at earthlink.net Sat Jan 5 09:21:18 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: More completely lame crap to skip over...Re: Language and English In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > > > Even the American English "rule" of placing all punctuation inside > > quotation marks is a _typographical convention_ that stems from the > > early days of movable type, when the period and comma were the most > > fragile pieces of type and were prone to breaking off in the press. > I don't understand why putting the period to the left of the quotation would be better than to the right... Please to explain... Clint From jss at subatomix.com Sat Jan 5 10:39:15 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: More completely lame crap to skip over...Re: Language and English In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020105100328.M24375-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > I don't understand why putting the period to the left of the quotation > would be better than to the right... Please to explain... The main purpose of the period is to denote the end of a declarative or imperative sentence (i.e., a statement or an order). Within a quotation lies another context, one which could be different from that of the containing sentence. Having only one place to put punctuation creates ambiguity, and putting the punctuation *inside* the quotation makes the situation worse. For example, in "proper" American English: Jamie asked, "Where are the toys?" Now, which does this mean? Jamie asked, "Where are the toys?". Jamie asked, "Where are the toys?"? In the first case, the author is stating that Jamie asked a question. In the second, the author is asking if Jamie asked a question. These are two very different meanings, and "proper" punctuation has no way to distinguish between the two meanings. Here is a slightly more complicated example: Jamie said, "Jason said, 'What the hell!'" Now, which does this mean? Jamie said, "Jason said, 'What the hell!'.". Jamie said, "Jason said, 'What the hell!'."? Jamie said, "Jason said, 'What the hell!'?". Jamie said, "Jason said, 'What the hell!'?"? >From another viewpoint, Jamie said, "Hello, world." is quite like printf("Hello, world);" Personally, I use a writing style reminiscent of that described in the Jargon File. http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/Hacker-Writing-Style.html -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Sat Jan 5 09:31:33 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: DEC bus driver/receiver chips (really VT78 docs) Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662E2@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> > pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > > I have a VT78. Is that the one you're thinking of? No. That's three now :-) I was thinking of the one the CCS have: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/CCS/ Antonio From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Jan 5 10:41:53 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: Movie making and distributed robotics References: <9f.209cd5cb.29680f0d@aol.com> Message-ID: <3C372CD1.AB528A5C@jetnet.ab.ca> Golemancd@aol.com wrote: > > the idea is to have the robot take care of itself. just refer to the master os > for references and instructions. master os will be used like a server. > server of info, directions, traffic directions , scripts, etc. like a > co-ordinator. > to direct everything that is going on. > for example like a forman on a building site. > the forman gives everyone their job and they go to it. > if there are any questions you refer back to him. > or when you are finished your job, you refer to him > and he gives you another one. > and the forman monitors everything in progress. > if he sees something that isnt going correctly, > he may step in and give other instructions. > > joee It still may best to build 'puppet' style bots to get a feel for how to build your final bot. The low level control used by a puppet bot can still be kept in when you add a 'brain' to it. Follow nature for ideas where you have several layers of control that you can bypass in case of a hardware fault. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jan 5 10:42:03 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: Movie making and distributed robotics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 Golemancd@aol.com wrote: > i robotics os would be to run hundreds of robots. > like a theme park run entirelly by bots where the robots > repair the other bots. > the system would do diagnostics on all the bot like > a bios does on a pc to see if all the hardware is working. > also the give vision to the bot. also many other functions. It's certainly none of my business, but Will they have weapons? From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Jan 5 11:47:39 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: Movie making and distributed robotics References: Message-ID: <3C373C3B.5446907F@jetnet.ab.ca> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 Golemancd@aol.com wrote: > > i robotics os would be to run hundreds of robots. > > like a theme park run entirelly by bots where the robots > > repair the other bots. > > the system would do diagnostics on all the bot like > > a bios does on a pc to see if all the hardware is working. > > also the give vision to the bot. also many other functions. > > It's certainly none of my business, but > Will they have weapons? Watching Jurassic Park 3, A 10,000 HP 43 foot long robot dinosaur does a lot of damage just by walking not to mention its bite. Who needs weapons :) -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jan 5 13:51:52 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: Movie making and distributed robotics In-Reply-To: <3C373C3B.5446907F@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > It's certainly none of my business, but > > Will they have weapons? > Watching Jurassic Park 3, A 10,000 HP 43 foot long robot dinosaur > does a lot of damage just by walking not to mention its bite. > Who needs weapons :) T-Rex jaws, claws, and weight would, indeed be weapons :-) How large is the army that he is building? From chobbs at socal.rr.com Sat Jan 5 12:19:41 2002 From: chobbs at socal.rr.com (charles hobbs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: Acid Core Solder (was: Re: ugly hacks(was Re: Heath/Zenith stuff) References: <20010412181634.89252.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> <3AD61E1C.81FD83FF@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <3C3743BD.30E60D38@socal.rr.com> Eric Chomko wrote: > any event, the worst story was a guy that used acid-core solder to build his > SOL. > When he dragged it into the shop it looked like hell. I thougt our main tech was > either > going to cry or actually kill the guy; as he was oscillating between deep sorrow > and > volcanic anger at a rapid pace. The owner had to step and and tell the tech it > was time for him to take > lunch at 10:30am. The guy became indignant when he was shown the fine print, > "USE ONLY ROSIN-CORE SOLDER." > > I don't think the guy ever got that Sol fixed or got a replacement from Processor > Tech. Did they tell him that he was ... uh... S-O-L??? :-) From donm at cts.com Sat Jan 5 12:49:17 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: <3C35CBDD.29180.431A8A7@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Asphalt when subjected to low temperatures will buckle when temperatures > get milder. Likely the reason most main roads out here on the Canadian > prairies are laid in cement slabs with a space between them. > > Lawrence > ... So that the whole slab tips when the water that enters the space freezes. Some of us older folks remember when Canada's approach to frost heaving was gravel roads - much easier to repair! - don From donm at cts.com Sat Jan 5 13:01:27 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: Compenents Source? In-Reply-To: <20020104170815.H4395@borg.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Kent Borg wrote: > In olden days I would go to Radio Shack, but that doesn't work > anymore, so I though I would ask here. > > Anyone know where I could find a small, cheap, low power, amplified, > battery powered speaker? Back when I would have bought a "telephone > amplifier", but in 2002 I can't immedaitely find such a thing. > > > Thanks, > > -kb, the Kent who is thinking he might need to buy something like a > portable radio (do they still exist?) and hack it. > How about the ones that permit playing music directly from your CDROM? - don From allain at panix.com Sat Jan 5 13:40:03 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: DECimages down? References: Message-ID: <001f01c19620$c6001aa0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Anybody know what happened to the DFW DEC User group PDF site? It seems to be offline all the times I check. http:// ** . *secret*. ** .201/decimages/moremanuals.htm John A. From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 5 13:50:47 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: Megabyte vs Mebibyte (was Re: Language and English) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > They should coin a new term for a fake Megabyte (i.e. > > something other than 1024 ^ 2). Call it a "Maybebyte". > > That wasn't funny. > > Yes it was. > And I am now going to use that in some of my classes, when I explain what > a Megabyte is. Yah! I coined a new term. You heard it here first ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 5 14:52:34 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > Model 2 and 100 used a dual row header, and of course, the PC clones used > > > an "RS-232 connector" :-) > > Right, the model 2 typically used a ribbon cable with IDC connectors. I > > have one of these with its DWP printer out in storage :) > > Not to be picky (well, OK, I do tend to be :-), "IDC" stands/stood for > "Insulation Displacement Conector", which meant virtually ANY crimp-on > connector, INCLUDING the card edge connector on drive cables for 5.25, and > the computer end of model 1,3,4 printer cables when they used ribbon > cable. I know that ;) Both connectors on that cable are IDC connectors. > Since the "centronics" connector (Amphenol Blue Ribbon 36 > pin) wasn't very available in IDC, those cables were kinda hoky, with > either a non ribbon "centronics" soldered to ribbon cable, or a card edge > crimped onto spread out non-ribbon cable. Well, my model 2 printer cable uses one of these, as does quite a number of my Apple II machines. I have tons of brand new 36 pin connectors in a box somewhere that I got as part of a bulk deal. They seem to be very common for printer cables for Tandy and Apply computers made around 1983-1988. (I don't remember if the box I have is full of male or female 36 pin connectors, however.) > The one model 2 cable that I remember using (20 yrs ago) did NOT have IDC > connector. It was a round cable (I don't know whether it was shielded), > with a 20 pin dual row header sloppily put onto the end. Well, I'm speaking based on the one I currently own, which certainly does have IDC connectors on each end of the ribbon cable. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 5 14:58:30 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > I'd be VERY interested in knowing WHAT differences there are. The > 26-1401 fits a "standard" 34 pin card edge, just like the floppy drive > (RS had lots of problems with people connecting things to the wrong > port!) > > There could be pinout differences that need to be buzzed out. I'll work on making a list of pinouts when I have some free time. Is there a comprehensive TRS-80/Tandy info archive somewhere where I can send the information? > Somebody said that there were different cables for Non-Tandy printers. > I'd be very interested in more detail on that, since the only > difference that I remember was that RS configured all of their > printers for auto LF after CR, but that they were otherwise completely > interchangeable, and "standard Centronics port". Several of the Tandy printers used a 4-bit interface, which is not Centronics compatible. The printers did mostly use the same 36-pin connector, which caused allot of problems. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 5 15:02:29 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: Lithium/Lithium-ion batteries In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > OK, I've been watching the thread for a couple of days about battery > damage. I just realized what's confusing me. I'm also fully aware that > I'm about to expose the true depth of my electronic ignorance. > > "Never recharge a lithium battery?" (Yes, I've also been watching the > grammar thread.) > > My laptop has lithium-ion batteries. That Apple camera came with > "Energizer Hi-Energy Lithium" AA cells that I was planning to stick in > the wall-wart battery charger. I'm fairly certain they're _meant_ to be > rechargeable. > > I think I'm missing a crucial concept here. As they say in West > Texas, "Could somebody please 'splain this wonderment to me?" There are several non-rechargeable lithium batteries on the market, and they most certainly _should not_ be recharged. Typically they are used for cameras and other items that need short duration high current pulses of power. -Toth From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 5 12:01:45 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: SGI computers In-Reply-To: <028501c19562$0b0e3a60$8c00000a@mfpc> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, MacRecycleProject wrote: > Now, let's get back to computers. Still looking for SGI Indy at a good > price; anybody got any ideas? I believe they've got some here: http://www.usedtech.org Click on "Featured Items" and then the SGI link. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jan 5 10:07:07 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: Almost On-Topic: DEC AHA1742B Firmware In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I may have some other models of Adaptec EISA SCSI boards in the same box, >I'll have to look. I tend to collect odd boards for PC stuff to test Linux >and BSD drivers. I've got a few Adaptec EISA boards as well, though I don't recall their model number at the moment. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From CLeyson at aol.com Sat Jan 5 15:12:42 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: Lithium/Lithium-ion batteries Message-ID: In a message dated 05/01/02 bshannon@tiac.net (Bob Shannon) writes: >Lithium Ion (secondary) batteries are rechargable >Lithium (primary) batteries are not rechargable. >Recharging lithium ion batteries in laptops is a very complex operation, and >a somewhat dangerous one as well. A conventional 18650 Lilion battery cell >has a substancial explosive yield, if mistreated! Bob is quite right, the exploding battery referred to in an earlier post was a standard (primary) cell. Personally I tend to avoid Lithium batteries at all costs, firstly, for the reasons given above and secondly, they're probably the least environmentally friendly. I'm just glad that PC manufacturers use EERAM these days. BTW, the Toshiba laptop has been thoroughly cleaned and reassembled :-( Chris From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 5 15:08:39 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: DECimages down? In-Reply-To: <001f01c19620$c6001aa0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, John Allain wrote: > Anybody know what happened to the DFW DEC User > group PDF site? It seems to be offline all the times I check. > http:// ** . *secret*. ** .201/decimages/moremanuals.htm Was working as of this last week. The address is easily found via a Google search ;) -Toth From west at tseinc.com Sat Jan 5 15:27:59 2002 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: HP2000 availability/nomenclature References: <001401c19583$af333e30$0314a8c0@jupiter2> Message-ID: <00e901c1962f$db5080c0$0101a8c0@jay> Alas, it's not available for login yet. I got it up for a short period of time - started loading some basic programs into the library, then the memory section in the IOP shot craps. Unfortunately, testing out the memory subsystem even with board swapping is a very long and painfull process. I just haven't gotten back to it yet. Soon as I get around to finding the problem with the memory subsystem and fixing it, then the system will be up. Also, in a subsequent email steve robertson had mentioned "Drug home two more HP1000s (first cousin to the 2000) last wekend". Remember.. there was no such computer (CPU) as an HP2000 technically. There was the 21mx line (m/e/f/k), the 2100A, the 2100S, and 2114/2115/2116. No such thing as a 2000 "computer". There was of course an "hp 2000 computer system", but the 2000 designation referred to a particular lashup of hardware and software that would run TSB. Some hp2000 systems used 2100 cpus, some used 21MX's, etc. etc. I'm not sure what you mean by "first cousin" to the 2000, for the obvious reason mentioned above, plus... the HP1000 series of computers came out many years after the marketing label "hp2000 computer system" was put into play. Maybe I'll spend next week running diags on the memory system and swapping boards & slots on the 2100S to see if I can isolate the problem. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Gortych To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:55 PM Subject: HP2000 available for login yet? Saw some posts back in August that Jay got his 2000 up and running, just wondering if it was available to for a guest to login and reminisce. Thanks! Mike From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Jan 5 15:01:55 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: NetBSD and Dilog ESDI controller (was: Re: FreeVMS) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200201052101.g05L1uH02442@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 5 Jan, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Not that I intend to remove VMS from my VAX, but does NetBSD > support 3rd party disk controllers, such as the Dilog ESDI setup that > I have on mine? Any MSCP disk adapter and the RL11/RLV11 / RL01/RL02 are supported by NetBSD. There are some compatibility issues with the CMD220 (?) SCSI to MSCP adapter. That is a bug in the adapter, so don't blame the OS... I have a DQ686 in my MV III and a DQ696 in my PDP 11/73 that was a MV II in a former life. They work well with my Maxtor XT4380E, XT8760E and some HH Micropolis drives. OSes on the machines are NetBSD 1.4/1.5, 4.3BSD-Tahoe and 2.11BSD. -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From west at tseinc.com Sat Jan 5 15:33:34 2002 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: HP2000 available for login yet? References: <000601c19601$791f4270$0314a8c0@jupiter2> Message-ID: <00f401c19630$a1de94c0$0101a8c0@jay> I used one in highschool Mike. It was my first exposure to a computer of any kind. We had a 2000E for my first two years, start of junior year it was upgraded to 2000 Access. Very nice system. That's why it has been my holy grail to get a 2000 Access system up and running. I finally suceeded a few months ago, but it went down due to a memory problem. It will definitely be back up before too long. Once the 2000 Access system is stable, I will build a 2000E system for nostalgia (and because it's easier to run/maintain/find parts for, etc.). In highschool we also had a pdp-11/03 running RT-11 and TSX+ (I have this system up and running after a fashion but I want to start over with it for some silly reason). Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Gortych To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 9:55 AM Subject: Re: HP2000 available for login yet? Steve, Did you use the HP2000 in school? I used to work at a board of education in northern NJ and we used to provide timeshare services to many schools in the area. From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 5 15:34:42 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: Lithium/Lithium-ion batteries In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jan 2002 CLeyson@aol.com wrote: > Personally I tend to avoid Lithium batteries at all costs, firstly, for the > reasons > given above and secondly, they're probably the least environmentally friendly. > I'm just glad that PC manufacturers use EERAM these days. There are many companies who will accept Lithium and NiCad batteries for recycling. Some will even pay the postage. > BTW, the Toshiba laptop has been thoroughly cleaned and reassembled :-( Good luck with it. -Toth From tom at sba.miami.edu Sat Jan 5 15:34:12 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: PDP-11 memory question In-Reply-To: <10201050105.ZM17794@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > Two other things occur to me. The first is that memories like the MSV11-D > (M8044) and MSV11-L (M8059) have jumpers to enable or disable memory that > corresponds to the I/O page. This gets a little complicated... Most DEC > memories decode the BBS7 signal to sense access to the I/O page and disable > memory access accordingly. The MSV11-D has a jumper 1-2 to enable memory > in the lower 2KW of the I/O page for systems that don't use the whole I/O > space; jumper 2-3 (the factory setting) to disable memory in the whole top > 4KW. The MSV11-L has a similar arangement, using jumpers 28-29 to enable > the memory in the bottom half of the I/O page, and 27-28 to disable it. My old MSV11-D module was set 1-2 (enabled). The MSV11-L that I replaced it with was jumpered 27-29 (disabled). I did find on the MSV11-L that X was connected to U. I'm not sure what U is for, but seemed to be grounded, so I removed it, which I assume set the address back to 0. At that point it started working. How do I know whether or not I need to enable or disable I/O page setting? I haven't tried to enable it on the MSV11-L, although it was enabled on the MSV11-D before I removed it. What symptoms occur if its set wrong? > And that's the second thing. The MSV11-L doesn't use BBS7 for everything > it decodes, so you have to set it according to whether it's in a 22-bit > system or an 18-bit system. If there's a jumper from R-T, it's set for a > 2MW system. Remove it for 128KW systems. I did find out that I have the 22-bit KDF11-A, although I haven't checked the backplane yet. If the backplane is 22-bit, should put the R-T jumper in the M8059? Does it matter if I only have 128KW of memory? Thanks, Tom From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 5 16:11:22 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3200SX Question In-Reply-To: <12a.a20c3b6.296812a2@aol.com> from "CLeyson@aol.com" at Jan 5, 2 03:26:10 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 600 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020105/2bae6c6e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 5 16:35:24 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: Lithium/Lithium-ion batteries In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Jan 5, 2 11:06:13 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1548 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020105/5f8424fe/attachment.ksh From mythtech at Mac.com Sat Jan 5 17:04:13 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: Lithium/Lithium-ion batteries Message-ID: >There are several non-rechargeable lithium batteries on the market, and >they most certainly _should not_ be recharged. Typically they are used for >cameras and other items that need short duration high current pulses of >power. I heard the advantage to Lithium batteries over Alkaline is that Lithium provides steady voltage right up until it is dead, where an Alkaline looses voltage as it dies. Any truth to that? Or is it simply Lithium provides more amperage at a given voltage? -chris From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Jan 5 16:38:40 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: Movie making and distributed robotics References: Message-ID: <3C378070.B965E795@jetnet.ab.ca> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > It's certainly none of my business, but > > > Will they have weapons? > > Watching Jurassic Park 3, A 10,000 HP 43 foot long robot dinosaur > > does a lot of damage just by walking not to mention its bite. > > Who needs weapons :) > > T-Rex jaws, claws, and weight would, indeed be weapons :-) > > How large is the army that he is building? Watch the movie Jurassic park #3, the T-rex had his head chewed off by the new 'king' of the dinosaurs. The special effects people put in some REALLY big beasts. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From mythtech at Mac.com Sat Jan 5 17:39:42 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: Movie making and distributed robotics Message-ID: >> > Watching Jurassic Park 3, A 10,000 HP 43 foot long robot dinosaur >> > does a lot of damage just by walking not to mention its bite. >> > Who needs weapons :) Movie studios don't generally make any "puppets" that are THAT big. If it is entirely anamatronic, then it is probably done on scale. Something of that size would be limited to basic movements, and probably not for a movie prop. They would just build dinosaur "parts" (sets and props are never made to more than what the camera sees anyway). >Watch the movie Jurassic park #3, the T-rex had his head chewed >off by the new 'king' of the dinosaurs. The special effects >people put in some REALLY big beasts. But by #3 were these still anamatronic, or entirely CG? (even #1 was a good chunk CG, but I haven't seen #2 or #3, so I can't give my opinions on the "look" of it). I would think by the 3rd, the only scenes that still had "real" dinosaurs would be close ups of the actors interacting directly with the beast. However, these kinds of things ARE built for outside of the movie industry. Ever been to Disney's Animal Kingdom? They have a "Dinosaur Adventure" ride (or some name to that effect). That has a few "full size" dinosaurs in it, and they do some basic movements. (Although, if you ever get to walk the track, I would think you will find they are not truly life size, but rather use forced perspective to make them look bigger than they really are). They are probably fairly fragile as far as the skin is concerned... but I wouldn't want to get caught up in their skeleton while it is operating... I'm sure it could take a limb off with ease. -chris From quapla at xs4all.nl Sat Jan 5 16:41:13 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: Some pointers needed on a 11/70 References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662D4@exc-reo1> <11147.194.134.214.183.1010002110.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> <10201030019.ZM14991@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C35BEEC.5A050014@xs4all.nl> <10201050159.ZM17916@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3C378109.27924F6C@xs4all.nl> Pete Turnbull wrote: > snip snip > Good question. I'm not sure, I think it's tested by the diagnostics on the > bootstrap card. I think it's possible to disable it but I don't know how. > It may be in one of the processor handbooks, which I can look up tomorrow. > That's where I checked the value for the LSR and USR. I swapped the Unibus map and the cache control board, and the machine behaves apparently much better. After pressing the bootstrap key (someone made a small switch between tabs 1 & 2 of the M9312) and it goes into a sort of loop after a second or so. When pressing halt, the address display ends in 344, while the data display shows 116. Also memory location 400000 through 477777 are accessible via the console and I can dump data and read from it. > That sounds encouraging. At least it seems to be running the diagnostic > code. I think, though, that the address it halts at is what tells you what > (if anything) failed the test. If you can tell where it halted, it may be > able to look that up. At 344 (addr) and 116 in the data display. No idea if this a valid value though... > > Do you have the manual for the M9312? There are several ROMs that might be Yes, the 9312 has the 233 type rom (11/70 diagnostic, so this is ok). > on it, with different device bootstraps, and I think there are at least two > diagnostics PROM options: one for 11/70 and one for other Unibus machines. > > > On the M8132 is a switchblock (1 of 3) which is - according to the doc- > > the > > lsw, I have set it to 1M, > > I suspect that should be set to the actual memory size. Has the location of the available ram in my case anything to do with the high address limit register? According to the usermanual it is the high imit of the memory, not it starting address? On the other hand, the starting address of 400000 can maybe also the result of some initial values in the unibus map registers? > > Anyone else know anything about 11/70's? > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York Ed -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Kilometerheffing : De overheid '97 TL1000S | weet waar je bent geweest! From mgortych at ntplx.com Sat Jan 5 17:01:34 2002 From: mgortych at ntplx.com (Mike Gortych) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: HP2000 availability/nomenclature Message-ID: <000601c1963c$f1480e40$0314a8c0@jupiter2> Well I gotta say it's great that someone out there is getting a 2000 up and running! I used to work at HP and know a few good hardware guys who might be willing to help you out. Also, if your interested I could ask a few of my old friends to scour their attics and basements for any paper tapes, sleep/hib tapes, or manuals for you...let me know. Also, I have a trivia question for you...what commands were used to add and remove files from the drum disk drive? Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020105/8809ff0d/attachment.html From msell at ontimesupport.com Sat Jan 5 17:22:22 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020105235753.023a92e8@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020105172150.02400d98@127.0.0.1> The VAX 11/780 is a 32-bit machine. Nuff' said. - Matt > > way so that some of the programs I tend to write would work. I guess you're > > going to try to make a FreeVMS for VAX clone, emulating 64 bits on a 32 bit > > machine would be a project killer from the start. > >Weren't there vaxen that didnt support the 64bit instructions? From >reading (excessively) the VAX Architecure Handbook, I seem to also >remember it saying that the address space was only 32bits. I could easily >be wrong, and it woudn't suprise me too much. Anyways, FreeVMS on a Sun >Enterprise 10k (or S/390 -- zSeries) would be cool, if not horribly wrong. >:P > >Personally (as I stated in my original post) I don't know much about VMS, >yet, I was just trying to throw some ideas off the top of my head. > >-- Pat Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jan 5 17:30:05 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: NetBSD and Dilog ESDI controller (was: Re: FreeVMS) In-Reply-To: <200201052101.g05L1uH02442@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <200201052101.g05L1uH02442@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: >Any MSCP disk adapter and the RL11/RLV11 / RL01/RL02 are supported by >NetBSD. There are some compatibility issues with the CMD220 (?) SCSI to >MSCP adapter. That is a bug in the adapter, so don't blame the OS... >I have a DQ686 in my MV III and a DQ696 in my PDP 11/73 that was a MV II >in a former life. They work well with my Maxtor XT4380E, XT8760E and >some HH Micropolis drives. OSes on the machines are NetBSD 1.4/1.5, >4.3BSD-Tahoe and 2.11BSD. Then NetBSD should work fine with the DQ686 (though I read it as D0686 on my board) and a Maxtor XT-8380E in my MV II? Mine originally had two of the 8380E's installed in it's BA23, but I removed one of them and have it stuck away as a spare. It might be interesting to try NetBSD loaded onto the 2nd one, if it could be netbooted to do the install. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 5 16:09:36 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020104233055.037798c0@mail.zipcon.net> from "Geoff Reed" at Jan 4, 2 11:31:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1092 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020105/003b646e/attachment.ksh From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jan 5 16:00:58 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: DECimages down? In-Reply-To: <001f01c19620$c6001aa0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Jan 05, 2002 02:40:03 PM Message-ID: <200201052200.g05M0wM11555@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Anybody know what happened to the DFW DEC User > group PDF site? It seems to be offline all the times I check. > http:// ** . *secret*. ** .201/decimages/moremanuals.htm Did you mask the address or did the mailing list software? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 5 16:01:18 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: More completely lame crap to skip over...Re: Language and English In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jan 4, 2 10:25:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 591 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020105/7c229987/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 5 16:05:31 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1 In-Reply-To: <3C36A0D1.521BE3C5@rain.org> from "Marvin Johnston" at Jan 4, 2 10:44:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 923 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020105/080e0945/attachment.ksh From marvin at rain.org Sat Jan 5 17:23:14 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:15 2005 Subject: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1 References: Message-ID: <3C378AE2.675A963@rain.org> Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > With so much OT stuff going on, this FAQ might be interesting reading > > for some of the newer members of this listserver. And just for the sake > > of curiosity, who has been on the list the longest? I joined sometime > > around June 5, 1997. > > I've been on the list continuously (although from a variety of accounts, > most of them now no longer around) since the second or third day of the > list's existance. But I think there are a couple of people who've been > around even longer than that. Just out of curiosity, how did you hear about the listserver? I found out about it when Bill posted something to alt.computers.cpm (or something like that.) It seems like quite a few people on this list were also active on that newsgroup at that time. From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jan 5 17:41:01 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1 In-Reply-To: <3C378AE2.675A963@rain.org> References: <3C378AE2.675A963@rain.org> Message-ID: >Just out of curiosity, how did you hear about the listserver? I found >out about it when Bill posted something to alt.computers.cpm (or >something like that.) It seems like quite a few people on this list were >also active on that newsgroup at that time. I believe that's how I found out about it as well..possibly in a posting on comp.os.cpm, though I don't recall which newsgroup exactly. Unfortunately my early archives of the group went away when I got rid of the Amiga 4000 that I had been using as my main machine. Tony's probably one of the, if not the, longest continuous members. I signed up when it first started but had to unsubscribe for a while when I was traveling a lot and couldn't keep up with the traffic. Heck, according to my archives here, there have been 32, 477 messages on this list since 12-Oct-2000! Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 5 18:12:03 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Lithium/Lithium-ion batteries In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Chris wrote: > I heard the advantage to Lithium batteries over Alkaline is that Lithium > provides steady voltage right up until it is dead, where an Alkaline > looses voltage as it dies. > > Any truth to that? Or is it simply Lithium provides more amperage at a > given voltage? Both are true. They hold the voltage level more steady as they are used, and they recover from pulsed current drain faster then an alkaline does. This is why they are ideal for cameras with flashes and similar electronic equipment. There would be no real gains to using a Lithium cell in say a walkman, since it has a slow but steady current drain over a long period of time. Alkaline cells are less expensive to manufacture, so they cost considerably less than a Lithium cell. -Toth From wpointon at earthlink.net Sat Jan 5 18:27:51 2002 From: wpointon at earthlink.net (bill pointon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <383B08DE-023C-11D6-B22B-003065ED7126@earthlink.net> > But then, if your writing sucks because you are lazy... well, you should > just be taken out and shot... or at least deserve to be insulted for it. my back is to the wall and i dont choose a blindfold -- fire when ready -- billp On Friday, January 4, 2002, at 05:59 PM, Chris wrote: >> If you have problems reading some things, try to keep that in mind >> when you >> write. Others may have problems as well. Make it easy for them to >> see what >> you mean in what you write by taking a little extra care. It's >> important. >> Learn to do it well. > > I just think some people need to realize that sometimes, what you get is > the best a person can do. I'm not defending a lack of use of punctuation > or capitalization, or anything like that (re: the emails this thread is > about... I agree they should have had better care taken when being > written)... but with generally poor writing, particularly when you find > the same person doing it over and over... you just have to accept that > that MIGHT be the best they are capable of. And you might want to ease > up > a bit on them... since the bitching may very well be taken as a direct > insult to their intelligence level... and is apt not to fix the problem, > but rather cause a nasty conflict. > > I mean, how would some of you feel, if you asked about some unknown > classic computer part, and were told "you must be some kind of dumb ass > to not know what that is... anyone who has half a brain in their head > would know this". > > But then, if your writing sucks because you are lazy... well, you should > just be taken out and shot... or at least deserve to be insulted for it. > > Just my thoughts. And no, I myself have not been insulted by ANYTHING > that has ever been said on this list, much less the recent > discussions... > including all the bashing I took over the crescent wrench incident... > but > then, I am think skinned (or was that think headed), and it takes far > more than a bunch of emails to offend me (kick me in the nuts... I might > be offended... call me a dumb ass... I am likely to agree with you) > > -chris > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 5 18:30:41 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1 In-Reply-To: <3C378AE2.675A963@rain.org> from "Marvin Johnston" at Jan 5, 2 03:23:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 454 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020106/c14fe943/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jan 5 17:50:48 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: PDP-11 memory question In-Reply-To: Tom Leffingwell "Re: PDP-11 memory question" (Jan 5, 16:34) References: Message-ID: <10201052350.ZM18932@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 5, 16:34, Tom Leffingwell wrote: > On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > I did find on the MSV11-L > that X was connected to U. I'm not sure what U is for, but seemed to be > grounded, so I removed it, which I assume set the address back to 0. At > that point it started working. Yes, U is the ground for V...Z (K is the ground for L...P). X-U (with all other bank pins disconnected) gives a start address of 00100000 (32K, decimal). > How do I know whether or not I need to enable or disable I/O page > setting? I haven't tried to enable it on the MSV11-L, although it was > enabled on the MSV11-D before I removed it. What symptoms occur if its > set wrong? If you have any devices in the lower 2KW of the I/O page, you should disable memory access to that area. If you don't, you'll get a conflict when both the I/O device and the memory try to respond to the same address. However, not many small QBus systems have I/O devices in that address range (160000-167777). It's normal to leave the whole I/O page for I/O devices, and disable memory in that area, though. > > And that's the second thing. The MSV11-L doesn't use BBS7 for everything > > it decodes, so you have to set it according to whether it's in a 22-bit > > system or an 18-bit system. If there's a jumper from R-T, it's set for a > > 2MW system. Remove it for 128KW systems. > > I did find out that I have the 22-bit KDF11-A, although I haven't checked > the backplane yet. If the backplane is 22-bit, should put the R-T jumper > in the M8059? Does it matter if I only have 128KW of memory? I don't know; try it and see :-) I suspect if you set it to 18-bit mode and use it in a 22-bit system, it will respond to multiple addresses. If you set it to 22-bit mode and use it in an 18-bit system with no termination on the upper 4 lines, it may respond to noise on those lines and not turn on when it should. The bus signals are active low, so if there's no signal they should float high and read as zeros -- but life and bus systems are not always so predictable. OTOH, if you have a 22-bit processor, it's easy to upgrade the backplane by soldering four pieces of wire-wrap wire to bus the extra 4 address bits (and upgrade the BDV11 if necessaary). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 5 18:49:37 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <3C36491E.30048.61B0432@localhost> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > As a fellow Canjen. Welcome to the classiccomp mailing list. Hey if > you want nit-picking and flames look back in the archives a couple of > years ago. At that time Sellam was known as Sam and his sig included > the disclaimer "occasional asshole" which I seem to have, in my own > mind, at least, inherited. Cmon Sellam tell me to F.O.. Actually, it was "Jackass". At least I was more honest back then. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 5 18:51:38 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1 In-Reply-To: <3C36A0D1.521BE3C5@rain.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote: > With so much OT stuff going on, this FAQ might be interesting reading > for some of the newer members of this listserver. And just for the > sake of curiosity, who has been on the list the longest? I joined > sometime around June 5, 1997. I know I was one of the pioneering memebers. Bill Whitson posted an advert for the list on various newsgroups, one of them being alt.folklore.computers, and I e-mailed him to include me on the list. So I can claim I was at least ONE of the first, and therefore on here longer than most :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jan 5 19:07:15 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Some pointers needed on a 11/70 In-Reply-To: The Wanderer "Re: Some pointers needed on a 11/70" (Jan 5, 23:41) References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662D4@exc-reo1> <11147.194.134.214.183.1010002110.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> <10201030019.ZM14991@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C35BEEC.5A050014@xs4all.nl> <10201050159.ZM17916@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C378109.27924F6C@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <10201060107.ZM18992@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 5, 23:41, The Wanderer wrote: > Pete Turnbull wrote: > I swapped the Unibus map and the cache control board, and the machine > behaves > apparently much better. Hmm.. Lots of DEC CPU backplanes have dedicated slots for various things, and the position/order of the boards is very important. I don't know if the 11/70 is like that, but I'd not be at all surprised if it were. Have you checked that everything is in exactly the right place? If you've removed any optional boards, have you checked in case any jumpers need replaced? > After pressing the bootstrap key (someone made a > small > switch between tabs 1 & 2 of the M9312) and it goes into a sort of loop > after > a second or so. Do you mean that someone swapped the wires from their normal places, or that someone added a switch that wouldn't normally be there? > When pressing halt, the address display ends in 344, > while the > data display shows 116. > > Also memory location 400000 through 477777 are accessible via the > console and > I can dump data and read from it. That's an unusual address, and it's only 32K bytes (16KW). You said you had two 64KW boards. What type are they? They probably have switches to set their base addresses. Are these set correctly? It would be worth trying just one, set to address zero, and see if that improves things. Start with the minimum in the system, and build it up as you get things working. > > That sounds encouraging. At least it seems to be running the diagnostic > > code. I think, though, that the address it halts at is what tells you what > > (if anything) failed the test. If you can tell where it halted, it may be > > able to look that up. > At 344 (addr) and 116 in the data display. No idea if this a valid value > though... It's an odd sort of address. I'd expect it to stop at an address in the ROM. If you had to halt it manually, it must have been running in a loop. Why that address, I have no idea, because according to the M9312 manual, it only runs code from ROM until it has booted some device. According to the M9312 manual, it runs various CPU instruction tests, then tests memory from 1000 to as high as it can go (up to 28KW), then tests the cache. It will halt if it gets an error in any of the memory or cache tests, but you can press CONTINUE to ignore the fault and carry on. > > Do you have the manual for the M9312? There are several ROMs that might > Yes, the 9312 has the 233 type rom (11/70 diagnostic, so this is ok). All DEC ROM numbers begin 23-. All DEC diagnostic PROM numbers end in F1. The correct bootstrap for a M9312 in an 11/70 is 23-616F1. If that's not what you've got, it's unlikely to work correctly. > Has the location of the available ram in my case anything to do with the > high address > limit register? According to the usermanual it is the high imit of the > memory, not > it starting address? Well, you ought to set it to the correct value, obviously, but I've no idea what would happen if you set it too high or too low. Yes, it's the high limit. > On the other hand, the starting address of 400000 can maybe also the > result of some > initial values in the unibus map registers? I think the bus init is supposed to set them to zeros. Of course, the map may be faulty. Normally each memory board has a switch pack to set its starting address. What type of board(s) do you have? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jan 5 19:12:40 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Some pointers needed on a 11/70 In-Reply-To: The Wanderer "Re: Some pointers needed on a 11/70" (Jan 4, 15:40) References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662D4@exc-reo1> <11147.194.134.214.183.1010002110.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> <10201030019.ZM14991@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C35BEEC.5A050014@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <10201060112.ZM19005@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 4, 15:40, The Wanderer wrote: > > There are various things done by the power-up bootstrap diagnostic > True, I have re-read the M9312, and at address 777644 is the diagnostics > rom start > address. When I load this address and then set 012 in the switch reg, > for some > moments it is blinking leds, and then lets the pause light on. There is > no sensible > address/error code shown at the console which should indicate a diag > failure. Are you sure about that address? According to my M9312 manual (microfiche), the correct start address for 11/70 diagnostics (23-616F1 PROM) is 765744. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jan 5 20:15:52 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1 In-Reply-To: Marvin Johnston "Re: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1" (Jan 5, 15:23) References: <3C378AE2.675A963@rain.org> Message-ID: <10201060215.ZM19087@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 5, 15:23, Marvin Johnston wrote: > Tony Duell wrote: > > > With so much OT stuff going on, this FAQ might be interesting reading > > > for some of the newer members of this listserver. And just for the sake > > > of curiosity, who has been on the list the longest? I joined sometime > > > around June 5, 1997. Beats me by over half a year. According to my old mail archives, I subscribed thus: From pete Thu Feb 26 01:01:17 1998 To: listproc@u.washington.edu Reply-To: pete@dunnington.u-net.com Status: OR subscribe CLASSICCMP pete@dunnington.u-net.com And two days later, in a private email to someone else, I concluded: (signed by Pete, still watching 60+ messages coming off his POP mbox :-( ) It was a fairly busy list even then. > Just out of curiosity, how did you hear about the listserver? I found > out about it when Bill posted something to alt.computers.cpm (or > something like that.) It seems like quite a few people on this list were > also active on that newsgroup at that time. I subscribed after seeing something on a newsgroup, and it was very likely either comp.os.cpm or alt.folklore.computers. Other groups I read then were mostly vmsnet.*, alt.sys.pdp*, alt.sys.perq, comp.sys.acorn.*, uk.telecom, rec.pyrotechnics, a few other comp.sys groups, and the now-dead alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 5 16:53:59 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Jan 5, 2 02:58:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 726 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020105/dc279ac6/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jan 5 19:52:08 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > difference that I remember was that RS configured all of their > > printers for auto LF after CR, but that they were otherwise completely > > interchangeable, and "standard Centronics port". > Several of the Tandy printers used a 4-bit interface, which is not > Centronics compatible. The printers did mostly use the same 36-pin > connector, which caused allot of problems. Wow! I don't remember those. All the ones that I can recall were either "standard" "centronics" (other than autoLF), or "almost RS232", some of which used a DIN connector for ease of cabling to a Coco. Once, when RS was was being criticized for "deviating from standards", they said that "RS232" stood for "RADIO SHACK 232", and that therefore, THEY could set the standard to anything that they wanted. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 5 19:47:53 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jan 5, 2 05:43:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1130 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020106/a88be813/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jan 5 19:43:31 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > I no longer have the pinouts for the various TRS-80/Tandy > printer ports. I've got the pinouts for the 1000HX and the 2000, but > that's it. The 26-1401 isn't keyed at all either so it'd be easy > enough to plug it in upside down. The later shielded cables for the > 1000-series have 'Top' embossed on the metal shield around the > connector. The model 1 expansion interface had every cable go down from the connector, and had silly little covers for the openings to go over the cables (I have a new unopened set of those for sale) If you leave off the silly covers, then any of the cables could be inverted. You could also connect the printer to the floppy port, etc. > >difference that I remember was that RS configured all of their printers > >for auto LF after CR, but that they were otherwise completely > >interchangeable, and "standard Centronics port". > The links to Tandy's own documentation suggests the need for > the different cables depending on what printer type is used. Some of > their later printers did have an option switch which did allow you to > choose between Tandy and IBM modes, afaik. Maybe it was something as > simple as the LF and CR being different. That's been enough of a > difference to cause problems with text editors and such between > systems in the past. Absolutely! The first time that I tried to share a printer between model ones, threes and PCs (remember Quadram's big multi-input "Multifazer"? buffer? (FS)), I had a choice between double spacing on the PC output, or "paper-saving mode" on the TRS-80 output. But did they actually try to deal with that through CABLING?!? From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 5 20:40:53 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > I've worked on Tandy 8 bit machines since the model 1. I've got > schematics of the M1 expansion interface. M1 'pregnant cable' printer > interface, M3, M4, M100, etc to hand. > > And I can't think of one machine that used a '4 bit interface'. They all > have the conventional 8 data lines, strobe, and busy. Tandy did do some > unconventional things with the other, lesser used, handshake lines at one > point, but I've used non-Tandy printers with the M1, M4 and M100 with no > problems. > > What machine and/or printer are you thinking of? I was referring to bi-directional parallel communication on a model 1000. This is most often needed for laser printers and most newer printers. Rather than duplicate the information someone else has already documented, I'll just provide a link: http://www.oldskool.org/~tvdog/1kfaq.html#II.H.5 -Toth From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 5 20:43:38 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Movie making and distributed robotics In-Reply-To: <9f.209cd5cb.29680f0d@aol.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jan 2002 Golemancd@aol.com wrote: > the idea is to have the robot take care of itself. just refer to the > master os for references and instructions. master os will be used like > a server. server of info, directions, traffic directions , scripts, > etc. like a co-ordinator. to direct everything that is going on. for > example like a forman on a building site. the forman gives everyone > their job and they go to it. if there are any questions you refer back > to him. or when you are finished your job, you refer to him and he > gives you another one. and the forman monitors everything in > progress. if he sees something that isnt going correctly, he may step > in and give other instructions. Why do you need a whole new OS for this? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 5 20:44:31 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > The links to Tandy's own documentation suggests the need for > > the different cables depending on what printer type is used. Some of > > their later printers did have an option switch which did allow you to > > choose between Tandy and IBM modes, afaik. Maybe it was something as > > simple as the LF and CR being different. That's been enough of a > > difference to cause problems with text editors and such between > > systems in the past. > > Absolutely! > The first time that I tried to share a printer between model ones, threes > and PCs (remember Quadram's big multi-input "Multifazer"? buffer? (FS)), I > had a choice between double spacing on the PC output, or "paper-saving > mode" on the TRS-80 output. > > But did they actually try to deal with that through CABLING?!? It seems like they did. Here's the link to the list of Tandy/TRS-80 printers, and the recommended cables: http://www.oldskool.org/~tvdog/1kfaq.html#II.H.2 -Toth From chronic at nf.sympatico.ca Sat Jan 5 20:54:52 2002 From: chronic at nf.sympatico.ca (Lanny Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1 References: <3C378AE2.675A963@rain.org> <10201060215.ZM19087@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <002601c1965d$84fbbd60$88f8fea9@98box> I loved alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt... only lurked there, but it was sweet... are there any newer alternatives out there these days? ----- Original Message ----- From: Pete Turnbull To: Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 10:45 PM Subject: Re: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1 > On Jan 5, 15:23, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > With so much OT stuff going on, this FAQ might be interesting reading > > > > for some of the newer members of this listserver. And just for the > sake > > > > of curiosity, who has been on the list the longest? I joined sometime > > > > around June 5, 1997. > > Beats me by over half a year. According to my old mail archives, I > subscribed thus: > > From pete Thu Feb 26 01:01:17 1998 > To: listproc@u.washington.edu > Reply-To: pete@dunnington.u-net.com > Status: OR > > subscribe CLASSICCMP pete@dunnington.u-net.com > > And two days later, in a private email to someone else, I concluded: > > (signed by Pete, still watching 60+ messages coming off his POP mbox :-( ) > > It was a fairly busy list even then. > > > Just out of curiosity, how did you hear about the listserver? I found > > out about it when Bill posted something to alt.computers.cpm (or > > something like that.) It seems like quite a few people on this list were > > also active on that newsgroup at that time. > > I subscribed after seeing something on a newsgroup, and it was very likely > either comp.os.cpm or alt.folklore.computers. Other groups I read then > were mostly vmsnet.*, alt.sys.pdp*, alt.sys.perq, comp.sys.acorn.*, > uk.telecom, rec.pyrotechnics, a few other comp.sys groups, and the now-dead > alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > From allain at panix.com Sat Jan 5 21:18:17 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: DECimages down? References: <200201052200.g05M0wM11555@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <001801c19660$c9a2c8c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >> http:// ** . *secret*. ** .201/decimages/moremanuals.htm > Did you mask the address or did the mailing list software? Figured if the DI people wanted it public they would have filed for a name. John A. From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 5 21:30:41 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: DECimages down? In-Reply-To: <001801c19660$c9a2c8c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, John Allain wrote: > >> http:// ** . *secret*. ** .201/decimages/moremanuals.htm > > Did you mask the address or did the mailing list software? > > Figured if the DI people wanted it public > they would have filed for a name. Nah, they are just moving things to a new server. I imagine they will eventually configure DNS for it. -Toth From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Jan 5 21:28:02 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Movie making and distributed robotics References: Message-ID: <3C37C442.114A209A@jetnet.ab.ca> Chris wrote: > Movie studios don't generally make any "puppets" that are THAT big. If it > is entirely anamatronic, then it is probably done on scale. Something of > that size would be limited to basic movements, and probably not for a > movie prop. They would just build dinosaur "parts" (sets and props are > never made to more than what the camera sees anyway). Get the DVD of Jurassic park #3 .. they a nice segment on the special effects. > But by #3 were these still anamatronic, or entirely CG? (even #1 was a > good chunk CG, but I haven't seen #2 or #3, so I can't give my opinions > on the "look" of it). I would think by the 3rd, the only scenes that > still had "real" dinosaurs would be close ups of the actors interacting > directly with the beast. The effects 1) Mat backgrounds 2) CG effects 3)anamatronic are so good you can't see any flaws when they switch shots between formats. In the version narrated by the special effects people you get all the details. > > -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sat Jan 5 22:08:29 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printerfind Message-ID: <20020106043122.CFWR19910.imf11bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Douglas Quebbeman > > > Heh. Mexican speed wrench... > > > > Funny, I've always heard it referred to as a *Kentucky* speed > > wrench ;>) > > I like that even better! But down yonder, they have > to be carefull with them, after all, they *really* > hurt when they're dropped on bare feet... Same thing in KY ;>) Glen 0/0 From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Jan 5 21:35:47 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1 References: <3C378AE2.675A963@rain.org> <10201060215.ZM19087@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <002601c1965d$84fbbd60$88f8fea9@98box> Message-ID: <3C37C613.98E0E5FB@jetnet.ab.ca> Lanny Cox wrote: > > I loved alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt... only lurked there, but it was > sweet... are there any newer alternatives out there these days? comp.arch.hobbyist is all that is left if you want something other than a PC clone! -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sat Jan 5 22:41:21 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Language and English Message-ID: <20020106055156.KKVZ4699.imf03bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Chris > Ugh.. try reading William Faulkner (I am pretty sure that is who it > was)... he has 3 page run on sentences... worst reading my poor dyslexic > brain ever had to deal with. Faulkner was an amateur. Try picking up "The Ticket That Exploded," "The Soft Machine," "The Job" or a number of other books by William S. Burroughs, and you'll find run-on sentences as long as 10 pages. (Yes, he's related to the Burroughs calculator and computer firms -- his grandfather invented the hydraulic piston which made the adding machine possible.) Glen 0/0 From ajwotherspoon at shaw.ca Sat Jan 5 23:56:40 2002 From: ajwotherspoon at shaw.ca (Alex Wotherspoon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: PS/2 Memory Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020105210710.00a964b0@mail.islandnet.com> Two sticks of memory pulled from a dead IBM PS2/57: One piece, with 9 chips per side, is from IBM and is labelled: UY IBM091 8M 70NS P P/N 71F7011 FRU 64F3606 Two of the chips are covered with paper labels; the other 16 chips are all marked (very faintly): IBM 0169216 53 70 Q 312145800 The other piece, with 12 chips per side, is marked: Front: PIICEON SR8192PS Back: GTS12 94V0 16 (8 on each side) of the chips are Micron Technology 4C4001JDJ-7. 8 (4 on each side) of the chips are Motorola MCM511000AJ70. Pictures of both pieces, front and back, are at http://members.shaw.ca/ajwotherspoon/ps2. Each of the two images is 0.5mb. Unable to test. Therefore AS IS. Yours for US$10 (or offer) for the pair plus the shipping cost (Canada Post or courier service) (and insurance if desired) from Victoria, BC, Canada. Alex From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Jan 6 00:13:51 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <20020106055156.KKVZ4699.imf03bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: > > (Yes, he's related to the Burroughs calculator and computer firms -- his > grandfather invented the hydraulic piston which made the adding machine > possible.) Oooohhh... it looped back into on-topic-ness! I believe that in actual fact, Burroughs, after a few years of night-and-day work on his mechanical calculator design, including tossing one finished prototype out a second story window in frustration, patented the *application* of a hydraulic damper to the actuator crank. His problem was that if the actuator lever was pulled down by the operator too quickly, the machine would jam very destructively. This 'bug' very nearly killed the product in the early market. He added what amounts to a small shock absorber to the crank lever, slowing it down enough so the machine could operate efficiently but not be overdriven. Then, there was no stopping it and the rest is well-known. My source is some Burroughs (Unisys) literature I gleaned while an employee of the company in the middle 80s. I bet Derrek Peschel could elaborate more on this. Now, just a sec, I wanna check my spelling, grammar, syntax, orthography, references, style, Flesch Rating, .... Cheerz D00DZ! John. From mhstein at usa.net Sun Jan 6 00:14:16 2002 From: mhstein at usa.net (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Compenents Source? Message-ID: <01C1964F.B4AFFDE0@mse-d03> As mentioned elsewhere, I'd recommend a cheap pair of computer speakers as well; trouble is, all the ones I've seen split the batteries between the two speakers, so it's tough to just use one. But if you're still looking & don't want to rebuild a portable radio (hard to find one with a speaker these days), I've got one or two of those RS powered speakers somewhere that you could have for next to nothing, depending on shipping cost. mike -----------------Original Message--------------- From: Kent Borg Subject: Compenents Source? In olden days I would go to Radio Shack, but that doesn't work anymore, so I though I would ask here. Anyone know where I could find a small, cheap, low power, amplified, battery powered speaker? Back when I would have bought a "telephone amplifier", but in 2002 I can't immedaitely find such a thing. Thanks, From mhstein at usa.net Sun Jan 6 00:15:58 2002 From: mhstein at usa.net (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3200SX Question Message-ID: <01C1964F.B89D8BC0@mse-d03> I've got a T3100e, so this may be irrelevant, but FWIW: Just had to replace the Li battery in mine; cost $15 the last time, $25 today. Since there was just enough room in there for 2 alkaline AAs in a holder, I thought I'd give that a try; seems to be working fine so far, despite being only 3V instead of 3.6V. Re the HD: when mine failed a few years back, I heard lots of info that it was an ST-512 drive with a special connector. Apparently not; installed a standard 80Mb (MB? mb? mB? :) IDE drive, Disk Manager to get around the fixed drive type, and Bob's your uncle. Good luck with the cleanup. mike From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Jan 6 00:32:31 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3200SX Question In-Reply-To: <01C1964F.B89D8BC0@mse-d03> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, M H Stein wrote: > Just had to replace the Li battery in mine; cost $15 > the last time, $25 today. Since there was just enough > room in there for 2 alkaline AAs in a holder, I thought > I'd give that a try; seems to be working fine so far, > despite being only 3V instead of 3.6V. The best place I found to get replacement Lithium battery packs and NiCads so far is PI Manufacturing Corp http://www.pimfg.com/ They have a minimum order, but if you do work on more then just a few computers, it is easy to make. Last time I checked, their website wasn't that great, but it seemed to be getting better. They will send a catalog if you request one. -Toth From mythtech at Mac.com Sun Jan 6 00:33:36 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Movie making and distributed robotics Message-ID: >The effects 1) Mat backgrounds 2) CG effects 3)anamatronic are so >good you can't see any flaws when they switch shots between formats. >In the version narrated by the special effects people you get all the >details. Cool... I will have to check it out. -chris From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jan 6 00:01:39 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Movie making and distributed robotics References: Message-ID: <3C37E843.55B40B45@jetnet.ab.ca> Chris wrote: > > >The effects 1) Mat backgrounds 2) CG effects 3)anamatronic are so > >good you can't see any flaws when they switch shots between formats. > >In the version narrated by the special effects people you get all the > >details. > > Cool... I will have to check it out . Just don't get EATEN OK! -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 6 13:02:10 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jan 5, 2 05:52:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1184 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020106/9899ff45/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 6 13:05:32 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Jan 5, 2 08:40:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1179 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020106/28f8e5b7/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jan 6 13:52:21 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >But data output to the printer was still done 8 bits at a time using the >8 data outputs. Are you sauying the Tandy 1000 didn't do this? Supposedly the 1000's have a problem dealing with later laser printers and such on their parallel ports. I myself always ran fairly old dot matrix printers off of mine when I was using them, but wouldn't think it'd be any more of a problem than other XT class machines without the enhanced parallel ports that many current printers depend on. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Jan 6 15:44:20 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3C3870D4.31365.E8674F3@localhost> Well, I just unburied my mod.2 and the parallel port is a double row 34 pin connector and used a ribbon cable. I just recounted the pins and it is indeed 34 pin. It's interesting to note that the HD and FDD had the same type of 50 pin dual row connectors. The display on the m.2 was also really excellent compared to other computers of that time. Lawrence > > > Model 2 and 100 used a dual row header, and of course, the PC clones used an > > > "RS-232 connector" :-) > > Right, the model 2 typically used a ribbon cable with IDC connectors. I > > have one of these with its DWP printer out in storage :) > > Not to be picky (well, OK, I do tend to be :-), "IDC" stands/stood for > "Insulation Displacement Conector", which meant virtually ANY crimp-on > connector, INCLUDING the card edge connector on drive cables for 5.25, and > the computer end of model 1,3,4 printer cables when they used ribbon > cable. Since the "centronics" connector (Amphenol Blue Ribbon 36 > pin) wasn't very available in IDC, those cables were kinda hoky, with > either a non ribbon "centronics" soldered to ribbon cable, or a card edge > crimped onto spread out non-ribbon cable. > > The one model 2 cable that I remember using (20 yrs ago) did NOT have IDC > connector. It was a round cable (I don't know whether it was shielded), > with a 20 pin dual row header sloppily put onto the end. > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From Golemancd at aol.com Sun Jan 6 14:31:05 2002 From: Golemancd at aol.com (Golemancd@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: those who asked. golemancd pc collection Message-ID: <6d.203a6162.296a0e09@aol.com> i am in florida From Golemancd at aol.com Sun Jan 6 14:38:58 2002 From: Golemancd at aol.com (Golemancd@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Movie making and distributed robotics Message-ID: <3d.1736b761.296a0fe2@aol.com> i think you and i are saying the same thing. except i am putting more emphasis on the bot being self controlled with outside help. you are putting more emphasis on remote control with eventual self-control. the thing is; the brain is the easiest part. the brain of the bot will be self learning so each bot will learn as it goes as opposed to me having to do a lot of designing. Follow nature for ideas for example a little child has just enough knowledge to ask about what he or she doesnt know about. so each bot will know just enough to refer to the master os on whatever it doesnt know until it learns. it will be set up to sort , retain, recall various information. joee From Golemancd at aol.com Sun Jan 6 14:40:03 2002 From: Golemancd at aol.com (Golemancd@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Movie making and distributed robotics Message-ID: <157.6dca40e.296a1023@aol.com> maybe weapons. depend on what the bot is needed for. for defense it may have weapons, From jhfine at idirect.com Sun Jan 6 10:26:15 2002 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: PDP-11 memory question References: <10201052350.ZM18932@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3C387AA6.6F9AF5EB@idirect.com> >Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Jan 5, 16:34, Tom Leffingwell wrote: > > On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > I did find on the MSV11-L > > that X was connected to U. I'm not sure what U is for, but seemed to be > > grounded, so I removed it, which I assume set the address back to 0. At > > that point it started working. > > Yes, U is the ground for V...Z (K is the ground for L...P). X-U (with all > other bank pins disconnected) gives a start address of 00100000 (32K, > decimal). > > > How do I know whether or not I need to enable or disable I/O page > > setting? I haven't tried to enable it on the MSV11-L, although it was > > enabled on the MSV11-D before I removed it. What symptoms occur if its > > set wrong? > > If you have any devices in the lower 2KW of the I/O page, you should > disable memory access to that area. If you don't, you'll get a conflict > when both the I/O device and the memory try to respond to the same address. > However, not many small QBus systems have I/O devices in that address > range (160000-167777). It's normal to leave the whole I/O page for I/O > devices, and disable memory in that area, though. > > > > And that's the second thing. The MSV11-L doesn't use BBS7 for > everything > > > it decodes, so you have to set it according to whether it's in a 22-bit > > > system or an 18-bit system. If there's a jumper from R-T, it's set for > a > > > 2MW system. Remove it for 128KW systems. > > > > I did find out that I have the 22-bit KDF11-A, although I haven't checked > > the backplane yet. If the backplane is 22-bit, should put the R-T jumper > > in the M8059? Does it matter if I only have 128KW of memory? > > I don't know; try it and see :-) I suspect if you set it to 18-bit mode > and use it in a 22-bit system, it will respond to multiple addresses. If > you set it to 22-bit mode and use it in an 18-bit system with no > termination on the upper 4 lines, it may respond to noise on those lines > and not turn on when it should. The bus signals are active low, so if > there's no signal they should float high and read as zeros -- but life and > bus systems are not always so predictable. > > OTOH, if you have a 22-bit processor, it's easy to upgrade the backplane by > soldering four pieces of wire-wrap wire to bus the extra 4 address bits > (and upgrade the BDV11 if necessaary). Jerome Fine adds the following: (a) My experience with upgrading the backplane is VERY satisfactory. It was done by someone with sufficient skills with a soldering iron. And yes, wire-wrap wire was used. The specific model was the VT103 which was a 4 * quad backplane, i.e. 4 quad boards or 8 dual boards. And terminating resistors did not seem to be needed - perhaps because of so few boards. (b) With regard to the use of the M8044 and M8045 memory boards, at one time I did that mod as well - using only 4096 bytes for the IOPAGE addresses (from 170000 to 177776). However, if I remember correctly (perhaps Megan can help with this aspect), it ONLY worked with either the RT11SJ or RT11FB monitors - i.e. UNMAPPED. As soon as I use the 11/23 board WITH the MMU activated, the MMU hardware under RT11XM forced the full 8192 bytes of the IOPAGE to be used - there was no other option. In addition, with the 11/73, it was NOT possible to use a 4096 Byte IOPAGE AT ALL Comments on the use of the 4096 Byte IOPAGE vs an 8192 Byte IOPAGE: If you have ONLY an 11/03 which can't run RT11XM or is running a stand-alone application without any operating system, then using a 4096 Byte IOPAGE does provide the user with an extra 4096 Bytes of program address space. HOWEVER, these days if anyone has at least an 11/23 and is running at least RT-11, then using RT11XM with at least 128 KBytes of memory does not seem to be a factor as far as cost is concerned. As such, I have yet to see an application which runs under RT11SJ and conforms to normal RT-11 rules which can't run under RT11XM, although I am certain that someone could immediately find one for me. But in most cases, the problems with an ISR (Interrupt Service Routine) is simply to place the code into the address range 00000 to 17776 (PAR0 which allows up to almost 8192 Bytes). So even if the program itself must have access to the IOPAGE, it is still possible to use extended memory for the address range 020000 to 157776 (PAR1,2,3,4,5,6) which means that the program has much more memory available than even under RT11SJ since now the locations used by the Resident Monitor in RT11SJ are also available and more than compensate for losing the address range from 160000 to 167776 for the RT11SJ Resident Monitor when the 4096 Byte IOPAGE is used. If memory mapping is OK, all 7 of the upper PAR ranges can be used under different windows, as required. I have one program which makes use of 152 KBytes of upper memory - 2 buffers of 48 KBytes each and initial set-up and data retention of 56 KBytes - the IOPAGE is not used. What is interesting is that I/O requests can be initiated in either of the 48 KByte buffers (.ReadC EMT Request) immediately after which the window for the other 48 KByte buffer can be activated and the I/O will automatically continue into the now unmapped 48 KByte buffer while the program processes the 96 blocks in the other 48 KByte buffer - using the code in PAR0 and PAR1 (00000 - 37776). The very nice part is that this program initially requests ONLY 8192 Bytes of memory and then checks to see if it is running under RT11XM or not. If the latter, a .SetTop is done and the rest of the program is read into memory if there is sufficient available and it uses as much as is available for the now very small buffers. Otherwise, if the former, 152 KBytes of memory are requested and 2 buffers of 48 Kbytes each are then available plus 56 Kbytes of code and data to manage everything. Now that is impossible with an 11/03 and even an 11/23 running the RT11SJ monitor. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jan 6 15:33:29 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: PDP-11 memory question In-Reply-To: Jerome Fine "Re: PDP-11 memory question" (Jan 6, 11:26) References: <10201052350.ZM18932@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C387AA6.6F9AF5EB@idirect.com> Message-ID: <10201062133.ZM20317@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 6, 11:26, Jerome Fine wrote: > (a) My experience with upgrading the backplane is VERY satisfactory. It > was done by someone with sufficient skills with a soldering iron. And yes, > wire-wrap wire was used. The specific model was the VT103 which was > a 4 * quad backplane, i.e. 4 quad boards or 8 dual boards. And terminating > resistors did not seem to be needed - perhaps because of so few boards. Many of the QBus processors have a set of terminators on the CPU card, and the QBus spec allows for the use of short bus length with light loads and no extra terminators. The definitions of "short" and "light" are subject to variation at short notice :-) > (b) With regard to the use of the M8044 and M8045 memory boards, at > one time I did that mod as well - using only 4096 bytes for the IOPAGE > addresses (from 170000 to 177776). However, if I remember correctly > (perhaps Megan can help with this aspect), it ONLY worked with either > the RT11SJ or RT11FB monitors - i.e. UNMAPPED. As soon as I > use the 11/23 board WITH the MMU activated, the MMU hardware under > RT11XM forced the full 8192 bytes of the IOPAGE to be used - there > was no other option. In addition, with the 11/73, it was NOT possible to > use a 4096 Byte IOPAGE AT ALL This sounds familiar. And to be honest, if you are running anything other than RT11SJ, you probably have a lot more than 28KW of memory anyway, so the saving is minimal. My advice would be not to bother trying to squeeze another 2KW out of the system. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dedgrossman at dsinw.com Sun Jan 6 11:13:34 2002 From: dedgrossman at dsinw.com (Daryl Grossman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Virtual Computer Message-ID: <000601c196d5$7d7f9c00$1c24fea9@d> I too had a Digicomp, which was more of a calculator than computer. Goto www.incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r/computer_simulators.htm to see examples of other classic computers built virtually instead of replicating the entire kit with plastic and wire ;) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020106/4119e8ab/attachment.html From mranalog at attbi.com Sun Jan 6 11:18:37 2002 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Let me try this again Message-ID: <3C3886ED.3FA0F487@attbi.com> Hi All, Last week I was looking for someone to host some Data I/O manuals. Sorry about that, I had no idea that they were already on the web. I thought they were created by the person that gave them to me. So now I have some scanned pages that someone might want to host. I believe that these are pretty rare and kind of historic. And again I want to get them out there to be a part of the Great Record and not be misplaced here in the Great Pile. And as before, let me know if these are already available somewhere else. Now the story. Well about 8 years ago I was in my favorite Bay Area electronic surplus store - Mike Quinn Electronics. At the time, they were still in the Quonset hut at Oakland Airport. I bought a pile of books and manuals. And when I got home I discovered among the books 3 handwritten and xeroxed, double-sided sheets stapled together entitled "MINI-MINI COMPUTER". The six pages described the design of a computer built using four core planes from an IBM 1401. At the time it was written, these core planes were available from Mike Quinn's for less than $9 each. The pages had no date on them, just the author's name and address. In 1999 I decided to track down this Hal A. Chamberlin Jr. Hal (I learned) is the author of the well regarded book "Musical Applications of Microprocessors". And I DON'T KNOW, but maybe the same Hal that started "The Computer Hobbyist". I contacted Hal in 1999 (at the time he was in Korea) and this is some of what he said: ---------- Start Quote -------------------------- > I'm searching for a Hal Chamberlin that at one time > lived at 123 Ashe Ave. Raleigh, N.C. > I'm trying to track down information about the > "MINI-MINI COMPUTER". > Thank you for your time, Hi, you've reached me. Where in the world did you find that address? That's where I lived when going to North Carolina State University junior and senior years! Right now I'm living in Korea but will be back in the 'States in a bit less than a year. The "MINI-MINI COMPUTER" is a paper design I did shortly after graduating in response to requests from hobbyists around the country about how to make a core memory unit function. It was a slimmed down version of the computer I had successfully built and run year earlier called the HAL-4096. MINI-MINI was described rather completely on 2-4 (don't remember exactly) hand-printed letter-size pages which I reproduced via blueprint machine. I filled about a dozen requests for copies but never heard of anybody actually building one. I have at least one set of the original blueprints in my archives in America. I take it from your by-line that you have a museum of sorts that concentrates on analog computation. MINI-MINI was strictly digital with 4000 (not 4K) 4-bit words of core memory. Each word could hold one octal digit plus a "flag" bit which was used to indicate the boundaries between words and whether a word was negative or positive. Thus it was a variable word length machine like an IBM 1620. Instructions were 10 digits long and consisted of 2-digit opcode and two 4-digit addresses. There was no accumulator; everything was memory-to-memory so one instruction could do a lot. Although MINI-MINI was probbly never built (at least not by me), HAL-4096 WAS built and ran from around 1970 until around 1979 when I moved from New Hampshire back to Raleigh (it was retired then and didn't make the move because wires in the core memory were corroding and breaking). I have some photos, a newspaper clipping, some of the homemade boards it used, perhaps a memory plane sample, and some software listings. It was a pretty complete system with full console, Selectric typewriter (and later a line printer), card reader, card punch, paper tape reader and punch, and modem (300 baud). Software included a full-featured assembler and BASIC interpreter, a version of which was remotely accessible via auto-answer modem (Bill Gates, eat your heart out - I beat ya by more than 2 years). There were tons of utilities and some experimental music synthesis software (the real reason it was built). I've still got much of the software on paper tapes, card decks, and printed listings. --------- End Quote -------------------------------------- I just contacted Hal again to nail down the date that these pages were written. And he said: --------- Start Quote ---------------------------------- > I was wondering, in what year the handout was written? I graduated with a BS in the Spring of 1970 so that would have been the Summer of that year. I believe that Mike Quinn had suggested that I write some plans for using IBM 1401 core memory planes which he had in abundance at the time and that was the result. It was really based on the then running HAL 4096 which used a larger IBM 1620 memory unit. >Did you know that there is a page at: >http://www.mtu.com/basics/mtufounders.htm that states: >> In 1966 as a college freshman, Hal designed his >> own digital computer (the HAL 4096) using scrap >> IBM magnetic core memory planes and logic cards. >> .... The HAL4096 was demonstrated publicly at the >> 1968 NC State University Engineer's Fair. That web site is run by my former business partner at MTU. The HAL 4096 wasn't really begun until 1968 (beginning of Junior year) when I got the core memory unit from Mike Quinn and some logic boards from IBM where I had worked the immediately preceeding Summer. What was shown at the Engineer's Fair was the core memory and ALU doing "something useful" (don't remember what it was) but the CPU didn't execute the full instruction set and have any useful software until 1969-1970. > Thank you for your time. Many people today are > interested in this kind of history. And your > design is a good indication of the type of serious > projects that were being attempted at the time. Again, feel free to do what you want with the MINI-MINI plans. --------- End Quote ------------------------------------ If these pages are not already available and someone would like to host them, let me know. Like I said before I'm not sure what the effect of many people trying to download this file would be, so I will give the filename to one person. And that person can make them available to anyone interested. The scans are a little rough but then the originals are 30 years old and copies from a blueprint machine. The 6 pages are 8.5x11 scanned at 300 dpi stored as .JPGs and zipped together for a total file size of about 15.5 MB!! Oh! and I'm on digest. Regards, --Doug And if I still have anyone's attention, does anyone know where I can find program to do Group 4 fax compression under Windows 98? Or a program to put a .PDF wrapper around scanned pages (for the budget conscious) under Windows 98? Thanks, --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog Analogrechner, calculateur analogique, calcolatore analogico, analoogrekenaar, komputer analogowy, analog bilgisayar, kampiutere ghiyasi, analoge computer. ========================================= From mranalog at attbi.com Sun Jan 6 12:36:24 2002 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Let me try this again References: Message-ID: <3C389928.DCE23E75@attbi.com> Someone privately wrote: > Sorry I dont use Winblowz. However, if you send > me a copy of those I'll convert them to a pdf > for you. I gave the filename to both Jay West and Hans B Pufal so the files should be available soon and anyone can grab them. I'm limited to email attachments of 2MB or less. And even uploading them to my web site took 17 minutes at 145 Kbps. Actually, I asked about compression and generating .PDFs for use with other documents I have scanned. I'm up to my hips in scanned pages from manuals that I would love to compress and wrap. I hate sending someone scanned pages to use as a reference. Regards, --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog Analogrechner, calculateur analogique, calcolatore analogico, analoogrekenaar, komputer analogowy, analog bilgisayar, kampiutere ghiyasi, analoge computer. ========================================= From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Jan 6 12:12:04 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: DECstation hardware guide In-Reply-To: ; from doc@mdrconsult.com on Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 00:17:56 CET References: <20020104221041.E627B394047@fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <20020106191204.A12548@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, melt wrote: > Hello, does anyone know of a copy of the DECStation 3100 hardware > guide (or whatever it is called) available online? http://decstation.unix-ag.org/docs/dec_docs/ -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Sun Jan 6 12:15:11 2002 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: More completely lame crap to skip over...Re: Language and English References: Message-ID: <3C38942F.FA8FBC7@mail.verizon.net> There was a thread on alt.folklore.computers on this very topic (does that make this on-topic? No, just two similar threads from two similar forums that are/were off-topic. But I digress). I agree, punctuation inside quotes IS ugly, but it does seem to be the "rule." I wasn't sure about the root of that rule, so thanks for pointing it out. Kind of reminds me of the use of Kelvin vs. degrees kelvin. Eric Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > > > Even the American English "rule" of placing all punctuation inside > > quotation marks is a _typographical convention_ that stems from the > > early days of movable type, when the period and comma were the most > > fragile pieces of type and were prone to breaking off in the press. > > OK, this is interesting. I always thought that it was both aesthetically > ugly and illogical to place punctuation marks inside quotes. The belong > on the outside, unless it belongs to the quote itself. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From quapla at xs4all.nl Sun Jan 6 14:44:36 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:16 2005 Subject: Some pointers needed on a 11/70 References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662D4@exc-reo1> <11147.194.134.214.183.1010002110.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> <10201030019.ZM14991@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C35BEEC.5A050014@xs4all.nl> <10201050159.ZM17916@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C378109.27924F6C@xs4all.nl> <10201060107.ZM18992@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3C38B734.A8139727@xs4all.nl> Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > I swapped the Unibus map and the cache control board, and the machine > > behaves > > apparently much better. > > Hmm.. Lots of DEC CPU backplanes have dedicated slots for various things, I actually did mean that I exchanged them for 2 other, identical boards. > and the position/order of the boards is very important. I don't know if > the 11/70 is like that, but I'd not be at all surprised if it were. Have > you checked that everything is in exactly the right place? If you've > removed any optional boards, have you checked in case any jumpers need > replaced? I did, all the jumpers are where the are supposed to be. > > switch between tabs 1 & 2 of the M9312) and it goes into a sort of loop > > after > > a second or so. > > Do you mean that someone swapped the wires from their normal places, or > that someone added a switch that wouldn't normally be there? At the bottom of the console in the metal fram, there is a small pushbutton made which leads directly to the M9312 tab1 & tab2. This looks like a 'push button' bootstrap and the previous owner made it apparently to have a quick (re)start of the machine when needed. > > > When pressing halt, the address display ends in 344, > > while the > > data display shows 116. > > > > Also memory location 400000 through 477777 are accessible via the > > console and > > I can dump data and read from it. > > That's an unusual address, and it's only 32K bytes (16KW). You said you > had two 64KW boards. What type are they? They probably have switches to > set their base addresses. Are these set correctly? It would be worth There are 2 M8728 boards in the memory box. > trying just one, set to address zero, and see if that improves things. > Start with the minimum in the system, and build it up as you get things > working. > > At 344 (addr) and 116 in the data display. No idea if this a valid value > > though... > > It's an odd sort of address. I'd expect it to stop at an address in the > ROM. If you had to halt it manually, it must have been running in a loop. > Why that address, I have no idea, because according to the M9312 manual, > it only runs code from ROM until it has booted some device. According to > the M9312 manual, it runs various CPU instruction tests, then tests memory > from 1000 to as high as it can go (up to 28KW), then tests the cache. It > will halt if it gets an error in any of the memory or cache tests, but you > can press CONTINUE to ignore the fault and carry on. > > > > Do you have the manual for the M9312? There are several ROMs that > might > > Yes, the 9312 has the 233 type rom (11/70 diagnostic, so this is ok). > It is the 23-233F1 diag rom. > Well, you ought to set it to the correct value, obviously, but I've no idea > what would happen if you set it too high or too low. Yes, it's the high > limit. All the jumpers on the memory boards are having their default positions, and the switches on the databuffer board are all open. The box has the M8728 memory boards, the M8164 data buffer board and the M8168 address buffer board. There are also 2 controller 'A' and 2 controller 'B' boards. I have field drawings of the memory boards, but not of the address buffer and data buffer board. Ed -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Kilometerheffing : De overheid '97 TL1000S | weet waar je bent geweest! From spedraja at ono.com Sun Jan 6 15:32:08 2002 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: Dilog DQ614 - Third Chapter Message-ID: <000c01c196f9$9840ef20$0101a8c0@gw.cavorita.net> Hello. About the probes with the DILOG DQ614 over one PDP-11/23 PLUS with one MFM hard disk using the diagnostics program for these board, I have some matters to speak about: * Somebody spoke about a possible modification of the U55 chip. I have the reference of the chip mounted. It's the 55U-91358. In fact, the order number of some chips of the board is: 25U-91353 69U-91354A 64U-91355 21U-91356 22U-91357 55U-91358 The question is: Could be used some XXDP diagnostic to determine the possible problem of the board that I told in my previous message about it ? * I want to use another hard disk, one IBM MFM full height of 44 Mb. Is one Type 31 (for the IBM PC) disk. Somebody has the complete geometry of it ? I don't have it actually available in the BIOS of my PCs, but I suppose that one 486 or 386 could have it. Thanks and Greetings Sergio From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jan 6 05:10:48 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1 In-Reply-To: "Lanny Cox" "Re: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1" (Jan 5, 23:24) References: <3C378AE2.675A963@rain.org> <10201060215.ZM19087@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <002601c1965d$84fbbd60$88f8fea9@98box> Message-ID: <10201061110.ZM19354@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 5, 23:24, Lanny Cox wrote: > I loved alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt... only lurked there, but it was > sweet... are there any newer alternatives out there these days? You probably remember that the rapidly-increasing number of off-topic posts led to a variety of attempted solutions. That culminated in the creation of a moderated group, comp.arch.hobbyist. The moderation is done by a 'bot, with human backup, but the group traffic level is very low. I suspect that's because the 'bot is too good, and it's actually hard to post as a newcomer, so interest has dropped off. The last few times I tried to post, my posts bounced, and attempts to contact the human moderators failed. Maybe I was just unlucky. Anyway, you'll find the FAQ and charter on Mark Sokos' website, http://home.supernet.com/~sokos/cahfaq.htm although it's seriously out of date and a lot of the links are broken. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From allain at panix.com Sun Jan 6 10:20:16 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1 References: <3C378AE2.675A963@rain.org> <10201060215.ZM19087@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <002601c1965d$84fbbd60$88f8fea9@98box> <10201061110.ZM19354@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <003701c196ce$0783ebc0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> (comp.arch.hobbyist) > The last few times I tried to post, my posts bounced > -- Pete T Well, I must say, Pete, that your posts here are among the most valuable, from my point of view. John A. From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Jan 6 15:44:20 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1 In-Reply-To: <10201060215.ZM19087@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: Marvin Johnston "Re: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1" (Jan 5, 15:23) Message-ID: <3C3870D4.30572.E86748B@localhost> I joined late summer of 97. I think I ran across it in comp.sys.cpm. In going back over my archives I had a giggle at some of the posts. One of them was a rant about one particular spammer by Sellam that he labelled "Son of Spamm" and his direct action solution. Lawrence ......................................................................................  > On Jan 5, 15:23, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > With so much OT stuff going on, this FAQ might be interesting reading for > > > > some of the newer members of this listserver. And just for the > sake > > > > of curiosity, who has been on the list the longest? I joined sometime > > > > around June 5, 1997. > > Beats me by over half a year. According to my old mail archives, I > subscribed thus: > > From pete Thu Feb 26 01:01:17 1998 > To: listproc@u.washington.edu > Reply-To: pete@dunnington.u-net.com > Status: OR > > subscribe CLASSICCMP pete@dunnington.u-net.com > > And two days later, in a private email to someone else, I concluded: > > (signed by Pete, still watching 60+ messages coming off his POP mbox :-( ) > > It was a fairly busy list even then. > > > Just out of curiosity, how did you hear about the listserver? I found > > out about it when Bill posted something to alt.computers.cpm (or > > something like that.) It seems like quite a few people on this list were > > also active on that newsgroup at that time. > > I subscribed after seeing something on a newsgroup, and it was very likely > either comp.os.cpm or alt.folklore.computers. Other groups I read then > were mostly vmsnet.*, alt.sys.pdp*, alt.sys.perq, comp.sys.acorn.*, > uk.telecom, rec.pyrotechnics, a few other comp.sys groups, and the now-dead > alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From spedraja at ono.com Sun Jan 6 09:02:49 2002 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: Unix v6 and 11/23 - Success! Message-ID: <00a501c196c3$35b30b80$0101a8c0@gw.cavorita.net> Congratulations for your advance. I have one PDP/11-23 PLUS with 128 Kwords of memory. I don't tried to boot it because I need to take my own RL02 from Germany where it's actually. But I use to startup this V6 distribution under Bob Supnik's SIMH v2.8-5. I've detected the panic problem in multiuser mode some months ago in my private hackings. I should agree to know all your advances and hacks in this aspect, please. Thanks and Greetings Sergio -----Mensaje original----- De: Kevin McQuiggin Para: info-pdp11@village.org Fecha: domingo, 06 de enero de 2002 10:30 Asunto: Unix v6 and 11/23 - Success! >Hi All: > >Thanks for the assistance today. Thoughts about the DEC firmware wanting >a NOP in early bytes of sector 0 must have been correct. I was able to >get to ODT via the HALT button, and entered a 4 instruction bootstrap >(basically, read current sector into memory starting at 0 and wait), >halted the machine, entered "0G" via ODT, and watched with glee as Unix >came up. > >Some confusion ensued when I couldn't get it to work a second time, but >then I realized that due to the simplicity of the bootstrap, the heads >would have to be over sector 0 for this to work. Unloading and reloading >the pack reset the heads to sector zero, and the boot process is now >easily repeatable. A better bootstrap would help in the longer run. > >Single user mode comes up fine, I get a panic while trying to get it to >come up in multi-user, but it's great progress for the day. > >Thanks to all on the list who replied with suggestions. > >Kevin > > > >-- >Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD >mcquiggi@sfu.ca >---------- >To unsubscribe (or subscribe) from (to) this list, send a message to >info-pdp11-request@village.org, with the first line of the message >body being "unsubscribe" or "subscribe", respectively (without the quotes). From cfandt at netsync.net Sun Jan 6 09:27:41 2002 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: Fwd: COMPUTER Message-ID: <4.1.20020106102410.00b93290@206.231.8.2> Folks, Could anybody help Mr. Heaton with his search for info? Contact him directly, of course, at "Bob Heaton ". Thanks much , Chris NNNN -- -- >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 >Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 08:16:55 -0500 >Reply-To: Bob Heaton >Sender: Boat Anchor Owners and Collectors List > >From: Bob Heaton >Subject: COMPUTER >To: BOATANCHORS@LISTSERV.TEMPE.GOV > >Higuys > > Have just come into posession of a couple (2) really nice little computers. > They are basically portable, but require 115 ac AND a telephone line. > Each is in a nice carrying case, and has a fold down key board. > > The ID plate says > INFORMER computer terminal > model 207 102 V.22 P/N 990-0KI VO-20 > Pala Drive > Garden Grove CA 92641 USA > 714-891-1112 >Attemps via snail-mail and twisted pair have been un-sucessful ,seems like >they just dropped off the face of the earth. Both units power up...pushing >buttons from F1 thru F24 display menu screens and programing formats. > >Any one have an idea where I could find a manual, of information on these >guys ? Sure would like to get them >set up to do something useful . > >Please E-mail to: >Bob Heaton >wb4jpz1@strato.net > >----------------------------------------------------------- >This list is a public service of the City of Tempe, Arizona >----------------------------------------------------------- > >Subscription control - http://www.tempe.gov/lists/control.asp?listATANCHORS >To post - BOATANCHORS@LISTSERV.TEMPE.GOV >Archives - http://interactive.tempe.gov/archives/BOATANCHORS.html Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Jan 6 09:39:50 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: MFM IC's (Was RE: Any AMIGA users?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Several of the newer variants of the 765, such as the 37C65, handle the > switch betwen FM and MFM entirely in software. Those will do FM/SD. > Almost any controller card that uses one of those chips can do FM/SD. OK, With all this talk of drive controllers, I've got two questions that I've had little luck finding answers to: 1) Are there any IC's available today that will do MFM and write-precompensation, but very little else? Basically it'll need to do the MFM, have a PLL for decoding the MFM, some sort of 'start read' and 'start write' inputs I can trigger from a sector pulse, and a write-precomp. Another question: Is write-precomp that important? 2) Where can I get one? I'd prefer to have a 1, 2, or 3 chip solution to that at max, with a minimum of components. If you're wondering what I'm doing, I'm trying to put together an interface board that'll let you hook your RL02 up to a peecee (and a linux driver... hey I don't have experience in writing for other OS's). -- Pat From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jan 6 10:47:30 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: MFM IC's (Was RE: Any AMIGA users?) References: Message-ID: <000d01c196d1$d4ce36a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Finnegan" To: Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 8:39 AM Subject: MFM IC's (Was RE: Any AMIGA users?) > > > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > Several of the newer variants of the 765, such as the 37C65, handle the > > switch betwen FM and MFM entirely in software. Those will do FM/SD. > > Almost any controller card that uses one of those chips can do FM/SD. > The only "catch" in many PC-based controllers is that the FM mode is suppressed by the hard strapping of one of the controller pins. > > OK, With all this talk of drive controllers, I've got two questions that > I've had little luck finding answers to: > > 1) Are there any IC's available today that will do MFM and > write-precompensation, but very little else? Basically it'll need to do > the MFM, have a PLL for decoding the MFM, some sort of 'start read' and > 'start write' inputs I can trigger from a sector pulse, and a > write-precomp. Another question: Is write-precomp that important? > There are two problems here. (1) the "available today" part is always iffy. (2) no controller chipset I've ever seen can do the MFM and PLL functions without additional support for a couple of reasons. (a) Though the PLL provides "bit-synchronization," byte-framing is established by the use of "address marks" in a soft-sectored environment. A system that writes essentially one sector per revolution of the disk, which is what I've gathered the AMIGA does, is an exception, since it's essentially hard-sectored. These address marks signify the nature of the data to follow, i.e. is it an ID address mark, and, if so, what sort, e.g. track or sector, or is it a data A.M. This practice resolves the ambiguity in which phase of the extracted clock is "clock" and which is "data." Some MFM chipsets used in HDC's, notably the WD1100 chipset, generated signals that were used to indicate the PLL was locked and that, having acquired synchronization, the PLL filter bandwidth should be reduced to retain lock. All of these functions were based on assumptions described in the overal structure of the format scheme, and, by omitting some of these features, as was done in the AMIGA, from what I've read, here in the list, I'd say it will be difficult to replicate the functions of the AMIGA's hardware/software scheme with hardware and software other than theirs. There is hope! With a little effort in cooking up a firmware set for the extremely inexpensive UBICOM SX28-100 microcontroller, which is very similar to a small PIC, it should be quite straightforward, at that MCU's 100 MIPS execution rate, to bit-bang the bitstream in order to incorporate both the PLL function and the byte-framing functions in a single part. Since these cost well under $10 each, and are in-circuit programmable using hardware you can easily build yourself and software available at no cost, this can be done at minimal expense. Another alternative would be the somewhat more costly, somewhat larger, and somewhat slower (not much, though, since the instruction set is more diverse and the program/data store on board is larger) DALLAS 89C420. That's a 50-MHz core on the 805x model, with a modified clock circuit that generates one instruction cycle per clock cycle. Either of these, and a wide range of others can easily handle floppy disk interface by conventional "bit-banging" techniques, while the faster ones I've mentioned can easily process a hard disk too. All that's required is a thorough understanding of the task requirements and thorough understanding of the controller's operation. This amounts to what is essentially building your own custom chip, but since the devices are generic and the tools are readily available, I'd say it's an attainable goal. Write precompensation is definitely necessary. With floppy disks, it required imposing a bit shift of about between 1/16 and 1/8 the bit rate. With MFM hard disks, the most common amount was about 60 ns against a 200 ns bit window. The most common compromise I observed in FDC's intended for both 500 and 250 MHz bit rates was about 160ns, or, essentially a 6 MHz clock. For hard disks of the '80's a 16 MHz clock would have worked just fine. > > 2) Where can I get one? > Wherever current-generation single-chip microcontrollers are sold, though you might do better requesting a sample. If your experiment works out, you can write them an application note that they can publish. That, if you can convince them you're likely to succeed, will help get you the samples you need. That Dallas part is being sampled currently. The part is available in PLCC-44 on short notice with about a 6-week lead time on the DIP-40 package. ISTR that Mouser, among others sells the UBICOM (formerly SCENIX) parts in onesies if getting samples is a problem. > I'd prefer to have a 1, 2, or 3 chip solution to that at max, with a > minimum of components. If you're wondering what I'm doing, I'm trying to > put together an interface board that'll let you hook your RL02 up to a > peecee (and a linux driver... hey I don't have experience in writing for > other OS's). > You should have no trouble doing this with a single part, though it's a big job for evenings and weekends. ... good luck! Beware of trying to expand the range of capabilities too much, though! > From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Jan 6 12:25:30 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: MFM IC's (Was RE: Any AMIGA users?) In-Reply-To: <000d01c196d1$d4ce36a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pat Finnegan" > > > > OK, With all this talk of drive controllers, I've got two questions that > > I've had little luck finding answers to: > > > > 1) Are there any IC's available today that will do MFM and > > write-precompensation, but very little else? Basically it'll need to do > > the MFM, have a PLL for decoding the MFM, some sort of 'start read' and > > 'start write' inputs I can trigger from a sector pulse, and a > > write-precomp. Another question: Is write-precomp that important? > > > > Either of these, and a wide range of others can easily handle floppy disk > interface by conventional "bit-banging" techniques, while the faster ones I've > mentioned can easily process a hard disk too. All that's required is a > thorough understanding of the task requirements and thorough understanding of > the controller's operation. > > Write precompensation is definitely necessary. With floppy disks, it required > imposing a bit shift of about between 1/16 and 1/8 the bit rate. With MFM > hard disks, the most common amount was about 60 ns against a 200 ns bit > window. The most common compromise I observed in FDC's intended for both 500 > and 250 MHz bit rates was about 160ns, or, essentially a 6 MHz clock. For > hard disks of the '80's a 16 MHz clock would have worked just fine. OK, Well I was hoping not to play that game, but I might just end up doing it. Here's a snippet of tech info I've learned about the drives that might be useful in deciding a better method (if possible): 1) Bit-clock is 4.2MHz 2) Write precomp on the RL-8A (pdp-8 native) controller goes from -15 to +15ns 3) There's a sector pulse (no index pulse as far as i can tell) which 'falls' at the start of the first data bit of the header... The header is composed of 3 8-bit words of 0's a '1' marker bit, address, etc, and then a crc, followed by the data Basically I want to have something that will 'start' on the falling sector pulse, and mfm-decode the data, and make it available 8 bits at a time (simple 8-bit shift reg should do that nicely). In order to do the mfm decoding/encoding, I was planning on programming a PAL with a simple state machine (perhaps more than one... but that depends on how many I'll end up needing). I just didnt want to end up with a drive controller the size of the origional RL-8A, RL(V)11, or RLV12... Thanks much for your help! -- Pat From mhstein at usa.net Sun Jan 6 02:35:37 2002 From: mhstein at usa.net (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: Language and English Message-ID: <01C19668.515E8A40@mse-d03> Well, I've only been on this list since October, but I think I've gotten a pretty good feel for the style and flavour in that short time, and all in all it's a great resource, informative (although, like you, I spend a lot of time scrolling through the DEC stuff :), and often a lot of fun to read. Actually Sellam is one of my favourite posters; his comments are usually quite appropriate and I really appreciate his often acerbic, no BS style; he apparently values his time (and mine, as the reader), whereas a number of people on this list apparently have a great deal more time available than I do (and that's not a criticism; in fact I envy them). No problem with the 'A' word either, especially when used self-deprecatingly or as a warning to me that if I say something foolish I might not be treated with gentle understanding and kindness; I am surprised though, that people as intelligent as everyone on this list seems to be would not find a more sophisticated way to show their contempt for someone else's opinions than to just call them names (and seriously mean it as far as I can tell). Just my C$.02 worth; as a newbie here I've got no business judging anybody. But as a newbie, I do want to add something FWIW: The original replies to Joee made the point that his way of expressing himself might backfire, in that someone who might have something useful (to Joee) to contribute might either just skip over his posts or judge that he wasn't 'worthy' of their help. Then the replies to those replies suggested that if we alienate Joee we might lose out on something _he_ might have to contribute. Well, speaking for myself, although I too was mildly annoyed by Joee's style and _apparent_ attitude, I wasted more time on and was more annoyed by the subsequent squabbling, although the _serious_ discussions of language were interesting for the most part. Joee himself must be rolling on the floor laughing over what he stirred up; reminds me of the story of the person who was incorrectly diagnosed as retarded for 2 years ("And they called ME retarded!") I do love the irony that while there's lengthy discussion over whether it's appropriate to type without caps, there's little interest in whether it's appropriate to call someone an asshole - style over content, sign of the times... My point (at last!) is this: When I first started looking around for a place to find takers for the 30 year accumulation of hardware, software and documentation I am getting rid of, this list stood out among the many others as an intelligent and fairly (but not too) serious and intelligent place; if I'd run across it a few days ago, I would have passed it by as just another list where people spend more time yakking and flaming each other than discussing computers and helping each other, because the people who have relevant things to contribute either remain quiet and invisible, or their posts are buried among the other stuff. Maybe, just maybe, there are other people who could make substantial contributions to this list and vintage computer collecting in general who'd feel the same way, despair of finding a suitable place to post, and move on or just toss out their stuff and whatever resources or expertise they may have. I like your idea of separate lists, in fact I am on a list that does just that; one list for the actual purpose of the list, and another for OT threads, rambling, ranting and raving. Works very well for me; I have a choice whether to just quickly read the important stuff in case there's something urgent to reply to, or grab a cuppa and 'socialize' for a while. Oops, this rant's getting longer than even Richard's recent ones; just wanted to say that while we're certainly going to yak among old friends and ramble OT occasionally, maybe we should try to stand out among all the other lists and stop short of the point where someone new with something to contribute will pass us by and write us off as just another bunch of assholes... mike Incidentally, Lawrence, I haven't gotten any replies to my off-list messages to you about the books & NetCommander; are you getting them or is there a problem? -----------------------Original Message------------------------- From: "Lawrence Walker" Subject: Re: Language and English As a fellow Canjen. Welcome to the classiccomp mailing list. Hey if you want nit-picking and flames look back in the archives a couple of years ago. At that time Sellam was known as Sam and his sig included the disclaimer "occasional asshole" which I seem to have, in my own mind, at least, inherited. Cmon Sellam tell me to F.O.. If this happens I promise to nevemore trangress the OT rule. Unless neccessary. Lawrence From allain at panix.com Sun Jan 6 10:15:30 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: Language and English References: Message-ID: <002901c196cd$5d1369e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I believe that in actual fact, Burroughs, after a few years of > night-and-day work on his mechanical calculator design, including > tossing one finished prototype out a second story window in frustration, > patented the *application* of a hydraulic damper to the actuator crank. This is an interesting and worthy topic. Just enter "William Seward Burroughs" into a search engine to verify what John said. That's the name of both the calculator inventor and the writer, but the writer seldom used his middle name, making it a good search string. John A. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Jan 6 04:24:00 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: NetBSD and Dilog ESDI controller (was: Re: FreeVMS) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200201061024.g06AO0g03991@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 5 Jan, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Then NetBSD should work fine with the DQ686 (though I read it > as D0686 on my board) and a Maxtor XT-8380E in my MV II? Yes. I used the DQ686 with a KA630 and a KA655 under NetBSD and it just worked. > It might be interesting to try NetBSD loaded onto the 2nd one, if it > could be netbooted to do the install. All my NetBSD installations on VAXen are done by netboot. I never used the install programm. I use a minimal NFS root to do the disklabel, newfs, tar, MAKEDEV, ... procedure by hand. See the NetBSD web site for a HowTo... Perhaps you should do a low level reformat and bad block scan of the disk? You know the magic words to invoke the controller setup? -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jan 6 09:36:57 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: NetBSD and Dilog ESDI controller (was: Re: FreeVMS) In-Reply-To: <200201061024.g06AO0g03991@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <200201061024.g06AO0g03991@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: >Yes. I used the DQ686 with a KA630 and a KA655 under NetBSD and it just >worked. Looking at the compatibility listing, it didn't look like it supported much else other than the standard MFM drives. It's good to hear that I was wrong. >All my NetBSD installations on VAXen are done by netboot. I never used >the install programm. I use a minimal NFS root to do the disklabel, >newfs, tar, MAKEDEV, ... procedure by hand. See the NetBSD web site for >a HowTo... Cool...I'll have to check it out. It'll be nice to have an alternative available. >Perhaps you should do a low level reformat and bad block scan of the >disk? You know the magic words to invoke the controller setup? That would probably be a good idea. Both disks were installed into the MVII prior to 1990 and it was used for realtime data aquisition in a production environment up until it's removal in 1990. I don't have any docs or anything on the DQ686 so, no, I don't know anything about it's setup. Thanks Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Jan 6 13:28:03 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: NetBSD and Dilog ESDI controller (was: Re: FreeVMS) In-Reply-To: ; from jhellige@earthlink.net on Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 16:36:57 CET References: <200201061024.g06AO0g03991@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20020106202803.C12839@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.01.06 16:36 Jeff Hellige wrote: > >Yes. I used the DQ686 with a KA630 and a KA655 under NetBSD and it > >just worked. > Looking at the compatibility listing, it didn't look like it > supported much else other than the standard MFM drives. It's good to > hear that I was wrong. There is (T)MSCP, the (Tape) Mass Storage Control Protokol. It is a standard way to interface disks (and Tapes) on DEC Uni- and QBus (DSSI) systems. If your disk adapter speaks MSCP, it will work regardless of the actual disk type. The reference to the MFM disks is a reference to the RQDX[123] adapter, that is a MFM to MSCP adapter... > >Perhaps you should do a low level reformat and bad block scan of the > >disk? You know the magic words to invoke the controller setup? > That would probably be a good idea. [...] > I don't know anything about it's setup. INIT (via RESTART button) Then type into the boot prom: D/P/L 20088004 80000001 D/P/W 20001f40 20 D/P/W 2000146a 3FFF S 200 (or "S 218 " if you have GPX graphics) and you will see the adapter menu setup. Reformat the disks, do a bad block scan and revector the bad blocks from the errorlog. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jan 6 15:49:15 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: NetBSD and Dilog ESDI controller (was: Re: FreeVMS) In-Reply-To: <20020106202803.C12839@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <200201061024.g06AO0g03991@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20020106202803.C12839@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: > > >Perhaps you should do a low level reformat and bad block scan of the >> >disk? You know the magic words to invoke the controller setup? >> That would probably be a good idea. >[...] >> I don't know anything about it's setup. >INIT (via RESTART button) >Then type into the boot prom: >D/P/L 20088004 80000001 >D/P/W 20001f40 20 >D/P/W 2000146a 3FFF >S 200 (or "S 218 " if you have GPX graphics) >and you will see the adapter menu setup. Reformat the disks, do a bad >block scan and revector the bad blocks from the errorlog. Thanks for the info. I just hooked my VT220 up to it and booted it for the first time since moving it and it came right up just fine. In fact, this was the first time using it with this particular terminal as well. Once I get the DELQA I'll swap out the hard drive and install the DELQA and see what happens. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Jan 6 15:44:20 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3C3870D4.13592.E867458@localhost> I have a Radio Shack 5 1/4 external FDD (mod. 25-1060 ) which I believe was only useable on some of the 1000 models. Certainly not on my 1000SX in any case. It has a 26+4 card-edge connector. Radio Shack seemed to have some unique(non-standard) ideas for their cabling. Lawrence > >KX-T1225 which seems to be a speed-dialer of some sort. The other is a > >cable with a (Doc ducks & prepares to rub) 36-pin Centronics connector, > >plus eyelet ground, on one end and a female card-edge connector on the > >other. The shrouds are steel, squared, and embossed "TANDY" on both > >ends. While I've never seen one, I'm guessing it's a Tandy printer > >cable. > > That's the general description of the parallel printer cable > to the Tandy 1000-series machines before Tandy switched to a standard > connector on the CPU. I've got one here with my 1000HX. > Unfortunately Tandy used a number of different connectors for the > parallel ports of their early machines, including a dual-row header > and the above mentioned card edge connector. > > Jeff > -- > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.cchaven.com > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jan 6 16:20:10 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: <3C3870D4.13592.E867458@localhost> References: <3C3870D4.13592.E867458@localhost> Message-ID: > I have a Radio Shack 5 1/4 external FDD (mod. 25-1060 ) which I believe >was only useable on some of the 1000 models. Certainly not on my 1000SX >in any case. It has a 26+4 card-edge connector. Radio Shack seemed to >have some unique(non-standard) ideas for their cabling. Even their internal floppy drives deviated from whatever connections most others were following at the time. The drive you're referring to above is the external 5-1/4" drive intended for use with the 1000EX and 1000HX systems. There was also a similar drive with a DD 3-1/2" mech for these two systems. On my 1000HX I used to put my BBS online for testing using only the internal 720k drive and the external 360k drive. It was a handy way to give people a means of transferring private files directly too me too. I believe the external 720k drive was p/n 25-1061. I didn't aquire one of those until years later. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jan 6 16:37:16 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1 References: <3C378AE2.675A963@rain.org> <10201060215.ZM19087@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <002601c1965d$84fbbd60$88f8fea9@98box> <10201061110.ZM19354@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3C38D19C.BC482B1F@jetnet.ab.ca> Pete Turnbull wrote: > > On Jan 5, 23:24, Lanny Cox wrote: > > I loved alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt... only lurked there, but it was > > sweet... are there any newer alternatives out there these days? > > You probably remember that the rapidly-increasing number of off-topic posts > led to a variety of attempted solutions. That culminated in the creation > of a moderated group, comp.arch.hobbyist. The moderation is done by a > 'bot, with human backup, but the group traffic level is very low. I > suspect that's because the 'bot is too good, and it's actually hard to post > as a newcomer, so interest has dropped off. The last few times I tried to > post, my posts bounced, and attempts to contact the human moderators > failed. Maybe I was just unlucky. Anyway, you'll find the FAQ and charter > on Mark Sokos' website, http://home.supernet.com/~sokos/cahfaq.htm although > it's seriously out of date and a lot of the links are broken. I suspect the bot was there because of all the OT 'PC' posts - buy a pentium abc computer.The news group is still active, as there was a posting yesterday. A lot of people are building FPGA cpu's but many never seem to get past the simulation stage. Here is a nice FPGA link http://www.fpgacpu.org/index.html A lot of people seem to be going back to 6502 cpu's as 8 bit controllers are coming back. Since I am building a 12/24 bit FPGA cpu I tend to lurk every where as nobody has come up with a new 12 bit computer since the PDP-8 The 8 is also a popular fpga design. http://surfin.spies.com/~dgc/pdp8x/ -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From foo at siconic.com Sun Jan 6 16:45:38 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1 In-Reply-To: <3C3870D4.30572.E86748B@localhost> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > I joined late summer of 97. I think I ran across it in comp.sys.cpm. In going > back over my archives I had a giggle at some of the posts. > > One of them was a rant about one particular spammer by Sellam that he > labelled "Son of Spamm" and his direct action solution. Ah yes. That must've been The Spaminator. Earthlink is unlawfully infringing upon my trademark of that term, by the way (I came up with it way before they did). If anyone wants to fund the legal action I'll split the settlement with you 50/50 ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Jan 6 17:29:14 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1 In-Reply-To: <3C3870D4.30572.E86748B@localhost> from Lawrence Walker at "Jan 6, 2 03:44:20 pm" Message-ID: <200201062329.PAA25762@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Lawrence > ...................................................................................... >  Trouble with your editor? :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- When in doubt, use brute force. -- Ken Thompson ---------------------------- From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jan 6 16:50:23 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: Windows 3.11 disks Message-ID: <3C38D4AF.41AD95E0@jetnet.ab.ca> I had posted earlier about needing 3.11 disks for a friend. The said 'free' computer seems to have ran out of 'magic smoke' and is no longer running. I want to thank everybody for the help with the 3.11 disks. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From tom at sba.miami.edu Sun Jan 6 16:52:42 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: PDP-11 memory question In-Reply-To: <10201062133.ZM20317@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > Many of the QBus processors have a set of terminators on the CPU card, and > the QBus spec allows for the use of short bus length with light loads and > no extra terminators. The definitions of "short" and "light" are subject > to variation at short notice :-) I guess this explains why my system has no BDV11 board in it. Although it doesn't completely work either. > This sounds familiar. And to be honest, if you are running anything other > than RT11SJ, you probably have a lot more than 28KW of memory anyway, so > the saving is minimal. My advice would be not to bother trying to squeeze > another 2KW out of the system. I'm running RT11XM, and it doesn't seem like I need an extra 2KW. From tom at sba.miami.edu Sun Jan 6 16:58:57 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: PDP-11 DRV11-B question In-Reply-To: <10201062133.ZM20317@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: Does anyone have a list of the function of the switch settings on the PDP DRV11-B / M7950 card? Also, is there an easy way to tell whether the device is at least recognized by the system? Something like a "show dev" on an alpha would be nice. Also, can anyone point me to a document that gives a good overview of the LSI-11 bus, so that I can understand what I'm doing when I change these settings (such as base and vector settings)? Thanks again, Tom From kees.stravers at iae.nl Sun Jan 6 17:18:57 2002 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (Kees Stravers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: KAYPRO 286 Message-ID: <20020106232143.2C56820FF0@eomer.vianetworks.nl> Hi, I got a question on a Kaypro computer that I couldn't answer, never having seen one of these. But one of you sure knows. Leo Jormanainen wrote: >I have what appears to be a KAYPRO 286 motherboard on a full length 16bit >ISA card. >The CPU is a N80L286-12/S, 815DH31 AMD (M) INTEL 1982. >It has two AMD Bios's marked 81-1748 & 49, 1988 KAYPRO. >Facing the chip side, on the left are 8 memory slots. At the left top are a >9 pin connector >and beside it is a 4 pin connector with the center two clipped.. On the >right top it has a 4 >pin connector with one connector clipped. There is a red (reset)?? button >on the end plate. >It plugs into a standard full length ISA slot. >Question, What do I have and what are the connectors for? I'd love to see >this work! >Can I plug this into a empty motherboard and power it up, first I need to >know how the >connectors are hooked up. From CLeyson at aol.com Sun Jan 6 18:17:47 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3200SX Question Message-ID: <125.9d6470d.296a432b@aol.com> In a message dated 05/01/02 mhstein@usa.net writes: > I've got a T3100e, so this may be irrelevant, but FWIW: > > Just had to replace the Li battery in mine; cost $15 > the last time, $25 today. Since there was just enough > room in there for 2 alkaline AAs in a holder, I thought > I'd give that a try; seems to be working fine so far, > despite being only 3V instead of 3.6V. Thanks for the tip Mike. I had intended to fit some NiCds but opted for two AAA alkaline cells. They've done the job and fit nicely under the keyboard. > Re the HD: when mine failed a few years back, I heard > lots of info that it was an ST-512 drive with a special > connector. Apparently not; installed a standard 80Mb > (MB? mb? mB? :) IDE drive, Disk Manager to get around > the fixed drive type, and Bob's your uncle. > > Good luck with the cleanup. > > mike > Luckily the HD is OK. The floppy drive occasionally throws up seek errors and I haven't been able to clean all of the crud off the head stepper motor. I've found a source of replacement drives in the UK and at very reasonable prices. Cleaned up the mother board with warm water, detergent and a stiff brush, then let it bake in the oven at 70C for an hour. Had to use a small grinder and a wire brush on some of the metal work. Installed DOS and I now have a happy computer :-) Best Regards Chris From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jan 6 18:24:03 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: <3C3870D4.31365.E8674F3@localhost> Message-ID: > > The one model 2 cable that I remember using (20 yrs ago) did NOT have IDC > > connector. It was a round cable (I don't know whether it was shielded), > > with a 20 pin dual row header sloppily put onto the end. On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Well, I just unburied my mod.2 and the parallel port is a double row 34 pin > connector and used a ribbon cable. I just recounted the pins and it is indeed > 34 pin. It's interesting to note that the HD and FDD had the same type of 50 > pin dual row connectors. Thanks for catching that. That was, indeed, a typo on my part. I should have said 34, not 20. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From west at tseinc.com Sun Jan 6 19:15:05 2002 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: Let me try this again References: <3C389928.DCE23E75@attbi.com> Message-ID: <001501c19718$be63b7e0$0101a8c0@jay> The mini-mini computer diagrams are available at www.classiccmp.org/mini There are 6 large jpg files, and one zip file that contains all 6 images. Regards, Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Coward" To: Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 12:36 PM Subject: Re: Let me try this again > Someone privately wrote: > > Sorry I dont use Winblowz. However, if you send > > me a copy of those I'll convert them to a pdf > > for you. > > I gave the filename to both Jay West and Hans B Pufal > so the files should be available soon and anyone can > grab them. I'm limited to email attachments of 2MB or > less. And even uploading them to my web site took 17 > minutes at 145 Kbps. > Actually, I asked about compression and generating > .PDFs for use with other documents I have scanned. > I'm up to my hips in scanned pages from manuals > that I would love to compress and wrap. I hate > sending someone scanned pages to use as a reference. > Regards, > --Doug > ========================================= > Doug Coward > @ home in Poulsbo, WA > > Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center > http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog > Analogrechner, calculateur analogique, > calcolatore analogico, analoogrekenaar, > komputer analogowy, analog bilgisayar, > kampiutere ghiyasi, analoge computer. > ========================================= > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jan 6 19:19:03 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: MFM IC's (Was RE: Any AMIGA users?) References: Message-ID: <002701c19719$4b80e6c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Finnegan" To: Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 11:25 AM Subject: Re: MFM IC's (Was RE: Any AMIGA users?) > On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Pat Finnegan" > > > > > > OK, With all this talk of drive controllers, I've got two questions that > > > I've had little luck finding answers to: > > > > > > 1) Are there any IC's available today that will do MFM and > > > write-precompensation, but very little else? Basically it'll need to do > > > the MFM, have a PLL for decoding the MFM, some sort of 'start read' and > > > 'start write' inputs I can trigger from a sector pulse, and a > > > write-precomp. Another question: Is write-precomp that important? > > > > > > > Either of these, and a wide range of others can easily handle floppy disk > > interface by conventional "bit-banging" techniques, while the faster ones I've > > mentioned can easily process a hard disk too. All that's required is a > > thorough understanding of the task requirements and thorough understanding of > > the controller's operation. > > > > Write precompensation is definitely necessary. With floppy disks, it required > > imposing a bit shift of about between 1/16 and 1/8 the bit rate. With MFM > > hard disks, the most common amount was about 60 ns against a 200 ns bit > > window. The most common compromise I observed in FDC's intended for both 500 > > and 250 MHz bit rates was about 160ns, or, essentially a 6 MHz clock. For > > hard disks of the '80's a 16 MHz clock would have worked just fine. > > OK, Well I was hoping not to play that game, but I might just end up doing > it. Here's a snippet of tech info I've learned about the drives that > might be useful in deciding a better method (if possible): > > 1) Bit-clock is 4.2MHz > 2) Write precomp on the RL-8A (pdp-8 native) controller goes from -15 to > +15ns > 3) There's a sector pulse (no index pulse as far as i can tell) which > 'falls' at the start of the first data bit of the header... The header > is composed of 3 8-bit words of 0's a '1' marker bit, address, etc, and > then a crc, followed by the data > > Basically I want to have something that will 'start' on the falling sector > pulse, and mfm-decode the data, and make it available 8 bits at a time > (simple 8-bit shift reg should do that nicely). > > In order to do the mfm decoding/encoding, I was planning on programming a > PAL with a simple state machine (perhaps more than one... but that depends > on how many I'll end up needing). I just didn't want to end up with a > drive controller the size of the origional RL-8A, RL(V)11, or RLV12... > I can send you some PAL equations that will fit both functions into a 22V10 if you like (and I can find 'em again). Once you get to the point of programming a PAL and building hardware, I think you'll find it attractive to run an SX, as I mentioned before, at a convenient harmonic of the data rate you want to support and have it kick the data out in parallel format into a RAM buffer driven with some external counters. One advantage of using the DALLAS 50 MIPs part is that it has sufficient data memory space (64KB) to hold an entire track, even if it's oversampled, and then process it into NRZ or parallel format. It even has a built-in serial port so it can send the data to your host system as a block of data formatted for sync or async, however you like. You can combine the PLL and SIPO function by sampling the data each time the counter overflows and resetting the counter each time, or some similar scheme. A 66 MHz clock should produce the precomp you want, but if you want precisely that interval, it will probably have to happen externally to the MCU. If all you're doing is recovering the data, you won't need to deal with precomp. If you want to write, you absolutely want to precompensate. Picking a sample rate is, for me, a choice between 8x and 16x the nominal bit rate. 8x falls within the capbilities of the SX but is a stretch for the Dallas part. Sampling might have to be done in external hardware. Once you're to that point there's another approach you may want to examine. OTOH, many drives of that era produced both data and clock when they presented read data. You might find that helpful. These microcontrollers would mean a really small circuit. One of about three or four components. That would appeal to me. Another option would be to try to fit the schematic-based design of the original controller into a CPLD. (NOT and FPGA!!!) I've found that schematics of "old" logic seem to yield useable circuits in CPLD's, while FPGA's totally seem to want to ruin the timing. That would lead to a circuit about the size of half a dollar, that's easily modifiable, since the parts are in-circuit-reprogrammable. Dick From west at tseinc.com Sun Jan 6 19:22:46 2002 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: HP2000 availability/nomenclature References: <000601c1963c$f1480e40$0314a8c0@jupiter2> Message-ID: <004b01c19719$d0d54960$0101a8c0@jay> Don't recall the commands to use the DRUM for saving programs. It seems to me I vaguely remember seeing the command listed somewhere, but I didn't pay much attention to it because I figured the chance of me finding a drum system to use were pretty much zero. DR-SAVE maybe? I dunno :\ If you know some old grizzled HP veterans, I am desperately searching for the IOP firmware for 2000 Access for the 21MX series of cpus. I have the firmware for 2000 Access on the 2100A/S, but not the 21MX. That would be MOST handy. And yes, I would be very interested in ANY SLEEP or HIB tapes particularly, also any punch tapes... basically I need the entire contributed/system library because the base OS includes no library. Thanks! Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Gortych To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 5:01 PM Subject: Re: HP2000 availability/nomenclature Well I gotta say it's great that someone out there is getting a 2000 up and running! I used to work at HP and know a few good hardware guys who might be willing to help you out. Also, if your interested I could ask a few of my old friends to scour their attics and basements for any paper tapes, sleep/hib tapes, or manuals for you...let me know. Also, I have a trivia question for you...what commands were used to add and remove files from the drum disk drive? Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020106/9e659324/attachment.html From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jan 6 16:52:11 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1 In-Reply-To: "John Allain" "Re: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1" (Jan 6, 11:20) References: <3C378AE2.675A963@rain.org> <10201060215.ZM19087@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <002601c1965d$84fbbd60$88f8fea9@98box> <10201061110.ZM19354@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <003701c196ce$0783ebc0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <10201062252.ZM20341@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 6, 11:20, John Allain wrote: > (comp.arch.hobbyist) > > The last few times I tried to post, my posts bounced > > -- Pete T > > Well, I must say, Pete, that your posts here are among > the most valuable, from my point of view. Thank you! They'd be even better if I learned to always engage the brain before putting the keyboard in gear... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jan 6 18:37:04 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1 In-Reply-To: Ben Franchuk "Re: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1" (Jan 6, 15:37) References: <3C378AE2.675A963@rain.org> <10201060215.ZM19087@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <002601c1965d$84fbbd60$88f8fea9@98box> <10201061110.ZM19354@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C38D19C.BC482B1F@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <10201070037.ZM20432@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 6, 15:37, Ben Franchuk wrote: > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > suspect that's because the 'bot is too good, and it's actually hard to post > > as a newcomer, so interest has dropped off. The last few times I tried to > > post, my posts bounced, and attempts to contact the human moderators > > failed. Maybe I was just unlucky. > I suspect the bot was there because of all the OT 'PC' posts - buy a > pentium > abc computer.The news group is still active, as there was a posting > yesterday. achh died because of the huge number of posts from people who had bought a motherboard, case, and video card and wanted help to make it work. We referred to them as those who belonged on "alt.fix.my.peecee" or similar. There were some amazing arguments between newcomers, who thought such lamers should get a polite answer including a solution, and veterans who argued that doing so reduced the S/N ratio and encouraged even more OT crap, and that people should read the guidelines. Doubtless some members of classiccmp will remember Leon Heller. And, yes, that is exactly why the 'bot was employed (it had been tried on achh, but since that wasn't moderated, it had to be a retro-active cancelbot, rather than an approvalbot). As for active, well, yes, I saw the post. And all the others; there must have been at least ten posts in the last 6 months. Not a very busy group these days :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jan 6 18:16:59 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: Some pointers needed on a 11/70 In-Reply-To: The Wanderer "Re: Some pointers needed on a 11/70" (Jan 6, 21:44) References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662D4@exc-reo1> <11147.194.134.214.183.1010002110.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> <10201030019.ZM14991@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C35BEEC.5A050014@xs4all.nl> <10201050159.ZM17916@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C378109.27924F6C@xs4all.nl> <10201060107.ZM18992@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C38B734.A8139727@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <10201070016.ZM20371@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 6, 21:44, The Wanderer wrote: > Pete Turnbull wrote: > I actually did mean that I exchanged them for 2 other, identical boards. Ah, I see. Sorry, I made the wrong interpretation there :-) > I did, all the jumpers are where the are supposed to be. OK. From what you've written there, and a few other places, I assume you have some manuals and/or printsets? > At the bottom of the console in the metal fram, there is a small > pushbutton made which leads directly to the M9312 tab1 & tab2. > This looks like a 'push button' bootstrap and the previous owner > made it apparently to have a quick (re)start of the machine when > needed. That makes sense. On an M9312, it simulates a power-down and then power-up. > > > Also memory location 400000 through 477777 are accessible via the > > > console and > > > I can dump data and read from it. > > > > That's an unusual address, and it's only 32K bytes (16KW). You said you > > had two 64KW boards. What type are they? They probably have switches to > > set their base addresses. Are these set correctly? It would be worth > > There are 2 M8728 boards in the memory box. Are they M8728-AA or M8728-CA? The latter is only 16KW. The easy way to tell the difference, if there's no -A or -C beside the number, is that on etch revision B and higher, the 64KW board is fully populated with 64K DRAM, while the 16KW is only partly populated. I suspect there might once have been a fully-populated 16KW version that used 4K DRAMs, though. I was, no surprise to anyone, wrong about their having switches -- showing my ignorance about the specifics of 11/70's. Most of the things I've written are gleaned from the meagre information in one or two of the processor handbooks, or from my (incomplete) collection of microfiche. Anyway, the memory box has switches on the front (and I assume you've checked those?) but as far as I can see from the 'fiche, the memory card base addresses depend only on their position in the box. So the two cards have to be adjacent, and nearest the other cards, I think. Do you agree? It looks as though the box might be set to the wrong address -- 400000 is 131072 decimal, or 128K -- and is only showing 16KW (32KB) of memory. I don't know how you set the address of the box, though. > > > At 344 (addr) and 116 in the data display. No idea if this a valid value > > > though... [...] > It is the 23-233F1 diag rom. OK, I've found some data (actually the listing) for that ROM. It's assembled at 165000 (but it looks like position-independant code, so that's possibly not its real address). It ends at 165776, ie 1000 bytes (octal) later. It is indeed an 11/70 diagnostic ROM for the M9312, probably just a later version than the 23-616F1 my other docs refer to. The docs say there's no way to enter the diagnostics directly, only by entering a bootstrap at the "run with diagnostics" address. They suggest that would be 173006/173206/173406/173606 depending on whether you're booting from a bootstrap ROM in socket 1, 2, 3 or 4. The docs also say that when the 11/70 powers up (or you press a boot switch attached to TP1 and TP2 on the M9312), it loads the PC from address 773024, and PSW from 773026. And indeed every boot ROM has a reserved word at that address for the PC, followed by 000340, which is the usual interrupt mask to set in the PSW for booting. Every ROM has code (opcode SEC) starting at 173x04 leading to a BCC BDIAG at 173020. In every boot ROM, that branch goes to an absolute jump, JMP @#DIAG, which in turn leads to a PC-relative jump at absolute address 165564, which goes to 165000 (the actual code is 165564 000167 177210 DIAG: JMP START). Why do you think address 777644 is the diagnostics ROM start address? All the 11/70 tests halt on error (unlike the CPU diagnostics for the 11/34 and other processors, which loop on error). The first section tests assorted instructions that needn't to use memory, the secondary CPU tests use the stack (R6 set to 000776). However, the very first instructions in the diagnostics code store registers at 000700...000704, and use 000706 to hold a flag which tells the code whether it's running on an 11/60 or an 11/70. If the memory isn't working, this will cause problems later in the diagnostics. Address 165344 is one of the error halts partway through the secondary CPU tests (assuming the diag ROM starts at 165000). What it does is set SP=776, then does a PC-relative JSR to the address 2 ahead of where it is. The code there checks to see if the top of the stack contains the correct return address, and should halt at 165326 if it doesn't (it should halt at 165320 if the JSR didn't execute). If it does see the correect return address, it adjusts the stack contents, does an RTS, ending up at 165342. At 165342, it pushes a zero and an address on the stack and then tests RTI. 165344 is the address of the push instruction, and 165350 is the RTI. That's folowed by a jump to the next test, which is the memory-sizing routine. So having it loop until you stop it, and then halt at some address ending in 344 doesn't make much sense to me. Either you're not starting at a sensible address, or there's something wrong that is sending it into a loop. That could be a CPU fault, or maybe (I've not read all the cache test code) something to do with not having memory between 000700 and 001000. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jan 6 18:48:46 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: PDP-11 memory question In-Reply-To: Tom Leffingwell "Re: PDP-11 memory question" (Jan 6, 17:52) References: Message-ID: <10201070048.ZM20444@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 6, 17:52, Tom Leffingwell wrote: > On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > Many of the QBus processors have a set of terminators on the CPU card, > I guess this explains why my system has no BDV11 board in it. Although it > doesn't completely work either. What doesn't work about it? What's on the backplane apart from your 11/23 and MSV11-L, and in what order? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jan 6 19:35:10 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:17 2005 Subject: Dilog DQ614 - Third Chapter In-Reply-To: "SP" "Dilog DQ614 - Third Chapter" (Jan 6, 22:32) References: <000c01c196f9$9840ef20$0101a8c0@gw.cavorita.net> Message-ID: <10201070135.ZM20479@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 6, 22:32, SP wrote: > * Somebody spoke about a possible modification of the U55 chip. If that was me, I picked the wrong chip. The one that's usually changed, to give a different address, is the PROM at U38, 91265D -> 91578A. > 25U-91353 > 69U-91354A > 64U-91355 > 21U-91356 > 22U-91357 > 55U-91358 Those all look standard to me. Anyone else got a DQ614 to compare? > The question is: Could be used some XXDP diagnostic to determine > the possible problem of the board that I told in my previous message > about it ? It might work. It might not. The DEC diagnostics make use of specific facilities in the RLV (QBus) controllers that aren't in the RL (Unibus) controllers, and may or may not be in a 3rd party device. The early diagnostics only cover RL01s and RL11/RLV11: ZRLA?? Controller Test Part 1 ZRLB?? Controller Test Part 2 ZRLC?? Drive Test Part 1 ZRLD?? Drive Test Part 2 ZRLE?? Performance Exerciser ZRLF?? Compatibility Test where ?? means any revision (a single letter) and any patch level (single digit), as usual for XXDP. The Performance Exerciser would probably work *once the disk is formatted*, as it just does a lot of read/write/seek tests. The compatibility test is pointless for a DQ614 as it tests moving packs between drives. The later diagnostics are for RLO1s or RL02s and RL11/RLV11/RLV12. There's an extra program to allow you to read and write the Bad Sector Table which exists on a real RL02: ZRLG?? Controller Test Part 1 ZRLH?? Controller Test Part 2 ZRLI?? Drive Test Part 1 ZRLJ?? Drive Test Part 2 ZRLK?? Performance Exerciser ZRLL?? Compatibility Test ZRLM?? Bad Sector Utility Finally, there's a pair of diskless tests written specifically to cope with differences between Unibus and QBus controllers: VRLA?? Diskless Test 1 VRLB?? Diskless Test 2 -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jan 6 19:35:29 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: PDP-11 DRV11-B question In-Reply-To: Tom Leffingwell "PDP-11 DRV11-B question" (Jan 6, 17:58) References: Message-ID: <10201070135.ZM20497@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 6, 17:58, Tom Leffingwell wrote: > > Does anyone have a list of the function of the switch settings on > the PDP DRV11-B / M7950 card? Also, is there an easy way to tell whether > the device is at least recognized by the system? Something like a "show > dev" on an alpha would be nice. If you know its address, try to access the CSR from ODT. For example, if the CSR is at 772410 (which is the default) then if you type that address at the ODT prompt, followed by a '/' (without the quotes), you should see the contents of the CSR. If there's nothing at that address, trying to read it will cause a bus timeout, and all you'll get is a question mark and a new prompt. > Also, can anyone point me to a document that gives a good overview > of the LSI-11 bus, so that I can understand what I'm doing when I change > these settings (such as base and vector settings)? Probably the Microcomputer and Memories Handbook 1982 is your best bet, as it covers the 11/23, LSI-11 and 11/2, various memory boards (including your MSV11-D and MSV11-L), and has sections on the processors, architecture, and so on. You sometimes see them on EBay. I think that was the last (or 2nd-last) QBus CPU/memory handbook. There are at least one or two earlier editions that would have the same general infomation, but not the specific bits about 11/23 and contemporary memory, or 22-bit operation. There's a companion volume, PDP-11 Microcomputer Interfaces 1983-84, which you'd find useful. It has all the information about the BA11-M/N/S backplanes and many peripherals, including your DRV11-B. Apart from that, have you looked at the Micronotes at http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware/ ? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Jan 6 19:47:42 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: Almost On-Topic: DEC AHA1742B Firmware In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > I may have some other models of Adaptec EISA SCSI boards in the same box, > > I'll have to look. I tend to collect odd boards for PC stuff to test Linux > > and BSD drivers. > > I forgot to mention that AFAICT, DEC uses custom microcode with these, > because when I tried to use the version "I" microcode off Adaptec's > site, even OpenVMS 7.2 wouldn't install anymore. My experience with > Digital Unix and OpenVMS 7.2 on an Aspen Alpine and a 164LX tend to > support that idea. What I'd really like to find is Compaq's archive > stash. If any of that still exists. Well, I found my box of boards, and it had 2 more AHA-1742A and 7 AHA-1740A boards. I haven't yet found a 1740B or 1742B in any of my boxes, but I'll keep a look out and let you know if one turns up, that is, if you still need the bios and microcode images. I also found a pair of AHA-2742AT EISA SCSI controllers. Anyone familiar with these? -Toth From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jan 6 20:08:10 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: PDP-11 DRV11-B question In-Reply-To: Tom Leffingwell "PDP-11 DRV11-B question" (Jan 6, 17:58) References: Message-ID: <10201070208.ZM20556@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 6, 17:58, Tom Leffingwell wrote: > > Does anyone have a list of the function of the switch settings on > the PDP DRV11-B / M7950 card? The smaller switch, S1, controls the vector. S1-1 to S1-8 correspond to bits 9 to 2 of the vector, respectively. ON sets a '1' in the corresponding bit position. Default is OFF, OFF, OFF, ON, OFF, ON, OFF, ON = 00010101 which gives a vector of 000124. The larger switch, S2, controls the base address. The DRV11-B has 5 registers, with factory-standard addresses as follows: WCR Word Count Register 772410 BAR Bus Address Register 772412 CSR Control and Status Register 772414 IDBR Input Data Buffer Register 772416 ODBR Output Data Buffer Register 772420 Note that the CSR is not the first address. S2-1 to S2-10 correspond to bits 12 to 3 in the base address. ON sets a '1' in the corresponding bit position. Bits 15-13 are fixed at '1'. Default is ON, OFF, ON, OFF, ON, OFF, OFF, OFF, OFF, ON = 1010100001, which gives 172410 (corresponds to 772410 with 18-bit addressing). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jan 6 19:51:06 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: MFM IC's (Was RE: Any AMIGA users?) References: <002701c19719$4b80e6c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3C38FF0A.76FF7A6A@jetnet.ab.ca> Richard Erlacher wrote: > Another option would be to try to fit the schematic-based design of the > original controller into a CPLD. (NOT and FPGA!!!) I've found that > schematics of "old" logic seem to yield useable circuits in CPLD's, while > FPGA's totally seem to want to ruin the timing. That would lead to a circuit > about the size of half a dollar, that's easily modifiable, since the parts are > in-circuit-reprogrammable. I never really trusted FPGA timing. I expect that unless you have oneshots or glitch sets and clears timing should be simple. None the less you do need to know what your logic does! I think a digital data separator is just a counter that clocks a shift register, with timing reset by the data stream. Busy cooking supper so I can't look up more info. -- Ben Frantic - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From tom at sba.miami.edu Sun Jan 6 20:30:23 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: PDP-11 memory question In-Reply-To: <10201070048.ZM20444@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > What doesn't work about it? What's on the backplane apart from your 11/23 > and MSV11-L, and in what order? Its kind of a long story, but I'll do my best. It boots RT11XM, and runs my program, but the program doesn't seem to recongize some or all of my hardware...I suspect the DRV11-B, but not for any good reason, its just a place to start. I wanted to get info on the DIP switch settings, in case there's more than one way to configure it. I suppose it could be the M7941 as well. This system was assembled from pieces, so none of the modules were part of a working configuration, and although they should be functional. They were bought from a DEC surplus place, so I don't know the history on them. Here's what's in it (4x4 backplane) M8186 MSV11-LK DSD440 interface* DLV11 M7941 Filler card, I forgot the number. M7950 (quad card) *I think its called a DSD440, its a dual RX02 clone made by Data Systems. As documented, the system I'm trying to duplicate was a PDP 11/03L, that was later upgraded to an 11/23. Which, btw, does anyone know the difference between an 11/03 and and 11/03L? It had a 4x9 card cage that was arranged: AB CD ------------------- M8186 MSV11-LK DLV11 RXV21 M7941 M7950 (quad) ADV11-C Spare BDV11 (quad) The only difference I can see besides the generic RX02 and the different backplane is that I don't have the ADV11-C module. I didn't look for one because I don't need it for what I'm doing, although the software was designed to use it, so it may be upset that its not installed, in which case I'll have to get one, or find a way to fake it. Basically, the software starts in a simulation mode if any "hardware port is missing." I'm not entirely sure whether its referring to what's in the PDP, or the data coming into it, but I think its referring to the PDP. I was hoping to try to verify that my M7950 and my M7941 were functional before looking for and installing an ADV11-C. I'm somewhat confident that the hardware attached to these interfaces is functional, based on a few observations with a scope, and the fact that it performs the few functions it can on its own without the PDP. Unfortunately, I don't have the source for the program. Thanks, Tom From rickb at bensene.com Sun Jan 6 20:31:50 2002 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: HP2000 availability/nomenclature In-Reply-To: <000601c1963c$f1480e40$0314a8c0@jupiter2> Message-ID: <000401c19723$7651dad0$0503eecd@bensene.com> Wasn't it SANCTIFY (SAN-) and DESECRATE (DES-)? Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Web Museum http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mike Gortych Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 3:02 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: HP2000 availability/nomenclature Well I gotta say it's great that someone out there is getting a 2000 up and running! I used to work at HP and know a few good hardware guys who might be willing to help you out. Also, if your interested I could ask a few of my old friends to scour their attics and basements for any paper tapes, sleep/hib tapes, or manuals for you...let me know. Also, I have a trivia question for you...what commands were used to add and remove files from the drum disk drive? Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020106/4f7eb12f/attachment.html From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Jan 6 21:23:09 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: HP2000 availability/nomenclature In-Reply-To: "Rick Bensene"'s message of "Sun, 6 Jan 2002 18:31:50 -0800" References: <000401c19723$7651dad0$0503eecd@bensene.com> Message-ID: <200201070323.g073N9k47783@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Mike Gortych asked: >> Also, I have a trivia question for you...what commands were used to add >> and remove files from the drum disk drive? "Rick Bensene" wrote in reply: > Wasn't it SANCTIFY (SAN-) and DESECRATE (DES-)? That's what I think too, but I think I answered this question when Mike asked over in comp.sys.hp. a couple or three years ago. Next trivia question: what did you have to do to a program file before you could SANCTIFY it? -Frank McConnell From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jan 6 20:43:16 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: Moon Patrol? Message-ID: <3C390B44.9C897476@internet1.net> Hello, Awhile back I bought a copy of Atari Moon Patrol for the PC on Ebay. The disk doesn't work, and I can't fix it with Norton Disk Doctor. Does anyone have a copy they could send to me? I looked on the internet and all I can find is roms for emulation use. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From allain at panix.com Sun Jan 6 21:12:39 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: Windows 3.11 disks References: <3C38D4AF.41AD95E0@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <000b01c19729$2aa51600$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > ... computer ... is no longer running. > I want to thank everybody for ... the 3.11 disks. Another senseless PC murder by Microsoft. Why, oh Why? Seriously, The Dave Barry newspaper column for this week is excellent. It's a point-blank, double-barrel shot at MS selling bugs over and over again. Everyone should see it. http://www.miami.com/herald/special/features/barry/2002/docs/jan06.htm John A. From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jan 6 21:34:39 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: MFM IC's (Was RE: Any AMIGA users?) References: <002701c19719$4b80e6c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3C38FF0A.76FF7A6A@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <001b01c1972c$3cb5ff00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The PLL that seems to work the best for MFM is one that's in quadrature with the data in a sync field such that the VCO goes high 90 degrees before the sync waveform does. When there's a transition during the positive phase of the VCO, the data, presumably, but only if verified by some unique data pattern (Address Mark) or other signal, is a one. There are other approaches based on 2x clocks that accomplish the same decoding using two-bit codes, but if a timer is reset to the nominal bit window in quadrature with the negative transitions on the data stream, it doesn't matter which approach you use. For that PDP-8 controller, it would be useful to know the precise timing relationship between the sector pulse and the next valid bit, including the jitter. Once that's know, the recovery of data should be straightforward. The common thing used in data recovery circuits for MFM was an 8T20, which, IIRC, was a bidirectional one-shot. Such a function is ideally suited for recovering ones from the modulated stream. The same could be produced, methinks, with the state of the MFM latched at the leading edge of that data window to which I referred above, and the MFM then XOR'd with that during the window. If there's a transition, then there's a one. Otherwise, well, it's not a one. I'm puzzled at how one is supposed to discriminate between clock and data without Address Marks that have "missing" clocks. Unless the relationship between the sector flag and the record ID are quite precise and stabile, I'd say reliability is in trouble. As for simply entering the schematic into the CPLD software and running a fit, I'd feel quite comfortable that a '70's design would work find so long as all events are synchronized to a single clock and that all "one-shot" events are digitally synthesized in sync with the global clock. Because all the macrocells in a CPLD are just that, as opposed to lookup tables as they are in FPGA's, the "schematic of yesteryear" can be made to fit quite realistically, particularly in timing. Moreover, since most of the macrocells are directly associated with pins, they're quite observable at the device boundaries so you can hook your 'scope or logic analyzer to them if you like. You can do the same with an FPGA, but I believe the CPLD is inherently better suited for simple import of already working schematic designs. The software's free, so give it a try! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Franchuk" To: Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 6:51 PM Subject: Re: MFM IC's (Was RE: Any AMIGA users?) > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Another option would be to try to fit the schematic-based design of the > > original controller into a CPLD. (NOT and FPGA!!!) I've found that > > schematics of "old" logic seem to yield useable circuits in CPLD's, while > > FPGA's totally seem to want to ruin the timing. That would lead to a circuit > > about the size of half a dollar, that's easily modifiable, since the parts are > > in-circuit-reprogrammable. > > I never really trusted FPGA timing. I expect that unless you have > oneshots or glitch sets and clears timing should be simple. > None the less you do need to know what your logic does! > I think a digital data separator is just a counter that clocks > a shift register, with timing reset by the data stream. > Busy cooking supper so I can't look up more info. > -- > Ben Frantic - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > > From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Jan 6 21:39:20 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: [GreenKeys] TTY stuff available (fwd) Message-ID: Forwarded for the attention of DownUnder listmembers; for possible rescue / cross-pollenization purposes. J. PS: Huw Davies.. is this near you? Macquarie University... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 13:09:06 +1100 (EST) From: Ray Robinson Reply-To: greenkeys@mailman.qth.net To: greenkeys@mailman.qth.net Subject: [GreenKeys] TTY stuff available Hi Gang, Just got this notice of some stuff available. Available Melbourne Asutralia. I don't need it. Perhaps I'll just ask for the picture atpes to sent to RTTYART. Regards RAy vk2ilv ------------- Begin Forwarded Message ------------- Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 20:19:58 +1100 From: Peter Fraser <2pjfraser@optushome.com.au> X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: robinson@shlrc.mq.edu.au Subject: TTY stuff Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ray I'm cleaning out my garage and I have some TTY stuff I just don't want any more. [snip] I have: Siemens Model 100 with tape punch and reader. I can't remember if it works. May be good for parts. VZ300 computer and RTTY modem kit. Lots of pictures on punch tape. Motor driven tape winder (good for collecting tape as it comes out of the machine. Hand driven tape winder. 3 or 4 rolls of tape to suit M100. Some rolls of paper to suit M100 Let me know if you can think of a home for it otherwise it all goes to the tip. 73 Peter VK3ZPF ------------- End Forwarded Message ------------- Regards Ray Robinson VK2ILV Electronic Engineer robinson@shlrc.mq.edu.au Speech Hearing and Language Research Centre 612-98508765 ph School of Linguistics and Psychology 612-98509199 fax Macquarie University North Ryde 2109 Sydney NSW AUSTRALIA web page http://www.shlrc.mq.edu.au/~robinson _______________________________________________ GreenKeys mailing list GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 6 21:54:34 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: Fwd: COMPUTER In-Reply-To: <4.1.20020106102410.00b93290@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <20020107035434.37582.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> --- Christian Fandt wrote: > Folks, Could anybody help Mr. Heaton with his search for info? > > Contact him directly, of course, at "Bob Heaton ". I will, but I wanted to mention to the list what I think he has > > Have just come into posession of a couple (2) really nice little > > computers... > > The ID plate says > > INFORMER computer terminal > > model 207 102 V.22 P/N 990-0KI VO-20 I'm not sure about the exact model, but I have an Informer terminal that looks just like his description. Mine contains a 3274/3270 combo. I've hung an HP serial analyzer off of it - it _really_ is a PU type 2, BIND and all. Fun if you need a 3270; useless if you don't. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Jan 6 22:01:06 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1 In-Reply-To: <3C3870D4.30572.E86748B@localhost> References: <10201060215.ZM19087@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3C38C922.14920.FDF711F@localhost> Sorry about that. Forgot I was using that Stupid @#!@#%!@ MS Word viewer. > I joined late summer of 97. I think I ran across it in comp.sys.cpm. In going > back over my archives I had a giggle at some of the posts. > > One of them was a rant about one particular spammer by Sellam that he > labelled "Son of Spamm" and his direct action solution. > > Lawrence > ................................................................................ Thus sprang forth the Spaminator! The Spaminator is something I threw together in about 10 minutes. What the Spaminator does is call the offendor's number, wait for the voicemail to answer, dial a digit to cut thru the outgoing message, then it starts singing simple tunes by playing "spam" in different notes. I recorded a "spam" scale with my own voice. Basically I sang "spam" starting from A and going to G. I created 10 different song files, with simple tunes such as "Mary Had a Little Spam", "Twinkle Twinkle Little Spam", "Happy Spamday", "We Shall Overcome (the spam)", "Jingle Spam", "Popeye the Sailor Spam", and a few others. The Spaminator randomly selects three spam tunes to play for each call. It plays the tunes, then hangs up and calls right back up again. The Spaminator is currently running, filling up the spammers voicemail box with spam tunes. Hopefully, it will fill up the voicemail box and they won't be able to receive any other messages. Also, it will bring them much anguish as they constantly try to delete these messages that don't stop coming. > > > On Jan 5, 15:23, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > > With so much OT stuff going on, this FAQ might be interesting reading > > > > > for some of the newer members of this listserver. And just for the > > sake > > > > > of curiosity, who has been on the list the longest? I joined sometime > > > > > around June 5, 1997. > > > > Beats me by over half a year. According to my old mail archives, I > > subscribed thus: > > > > From pete Thu Feb 26 01:01:17 1998 > > To: listproc@u.washington.edu > > Reply-To: pete@dunnington.u-net.com > > Status: OR > > > > subscribe CLASSICCMP pete@dunnington.u-net.com > > > > And two days later, in a private email to someone else, I concluded: > > > > (signed by Pete, still watching 60+ messages coming off his POP mbox :-( ) > > > > It was a fairly busy list even then. > > > > > Just out of curiosity, how did you hear about the listserver? I found > > > out about it when Bill posted something to alt.computers.cpm (or > > > something like that.) It seems like quite a few people on this list were > > > also active on that newsgroup at that time. > > > > I subscribed after seeing something on a newsgroup, and it was very likely > > either comp.os.cpm or alt.folklore.computers. Other groups I read then were > > mostly vmsnet.*, alt.sys.pdp*, alt.sys.perq, comp.sys.acorn.*, uk.telecom, > > rec.pyrotechnics, a few other comp.sys groups, and the now-dead > > alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt. > > > > -- > > Pete Peter Turnbull > > Network Manager > > University of York > > > > Reply to: > lgwalker@mts.net Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Jan 6 22:41:51 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: MFM IC's (Was RE: Any AMIGA users?) In-Reply-To: <001b01c1972c$3cb5ff00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > For that PDP-8 controller, it would be useful to know the precise timing > relationship between the sector pulse and the next valid bit, including the > jitter. Once that's know, the recovery of data should be straightforward. By looking at the timing diagram I have, the sync pulse falls as the first bit of data starts. I'm not sure how correct that is, but I am sure that the first rising edge on the data line following the falling edge of the sector pulse it the start of the first data bit. After that, there are another 24 '0' bits (so the data will follow the clock). I found a copy of the manual at: http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/dec/pdp8/EK-RL8A-TM.pdf I would like to be able to also write data back onto the disk pack, so that you could create a real disk from an image, and an image from a real disk on a peecee (or other box some1 writes a driver for). -- Pat From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sun Jan 6 22:49:14 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: Movie making and distributed robotics Message-ID: <20020107045119.ERWK21666.imf17bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Golemancd@aol.com > the idea is to have the robot take care of itself. just refer to the master os > for references and instructions. master os will be used like a server. > server of info, directions, traffic directions , scripts, etc. like a > co-ordinator. > to direct everything that is going on. > for example like a forman on a building site. > the forman gives everyone their job and they go to it. > if there are any questions you refer back to him. > or when you are finished your job, you refer to him > and he gives you another one. > and the forman monitors everything in progress. > if he sees something that isnt going correctly, > he may step in and give other instructions. QNX is a perfect solution for this since it's real-time and has great interprocess communication built in. Or, maybe you'd prefer to cook up an OS from scratch. Glen 0/0 From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jan 6 21:35:43 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: Windows 3.11 disks References: <3C38D4AF.41AD95E0@jetnet.ab.ca> <000b01c19729$2aa51600$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3C39178F.DE399B17@jetnet.ab.ca> John Allain wrote: > > > ... computer ... is no longer running. > > I want to thank everybody for ... the 3.11 disks. > > Another senseless PC murder by Microsoft. > Why, oh Why? > > Seriously, The Dave Barry newspaper column for this week is > excellent. It's a point-blank, double-barrel shot at MS selling > bugs over and over again. Everyone should see it. > http://www.miami.com/herald/special/features/barry/2002/docs/jan06.htm > > John A. Other than windows did not apple kill all the other GUI interfaces because the look was similar to the MAC. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From donm at cts.com Sun Jan 6 23:17:22 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: KAYPRO 286 In-Reply-To: <20020106232143.2C56820FF0@eomer.vianetworks.nl> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Kees Stravers wrote: > > > > Hi, > I got a question on a Kaypro computer that I couldn't answer, never > having seen one of these. But one of you sure knows. > The most likely usage of the 4-pin with center two clipped is for a speaker. The 4-pin with one clipped is likely a battery connection with +5vdc on pin-1, the clip as a key at pin-2 and pins-3&4 at ground. No good guesses on the 9-pin connector, though it might be a header to run a cable to a keyboard connector on the passive backplane. It should be OK to plug it into a passive backplane, but I'd be a bit reluctant on a normal AT motherboard. - don > Leo Jormanainen wrote: > >I have what appears to be a KAYPRO 286 motherboard on a full length 16bit > >ISA card. > >The CPU is a N80L286-12/S, 815DH31 AMD (M) INTEL 1982. > >It has two AMD Bios's marked 81-1748 & 49, 1988 KAYPRO. > >Facing the chip side, on the left are 8 memory slots. At the left top are a > >9 pin connector > >and beside it is a 4 pin connector with the center two clipped.. On the > >right top it has a 4 > >pin connector with one connector clipped. There is a red (reset)?? button > >on the end plate. > >It plugs into a standard full length ISA slot. > >Question, What do I have and what are the connectors for? I'd love to see > >this work! > >Can I plug this into a empty motherboard and power it up, first I need to > >know how the > >connectors are hooked up. > From foo at siconic.com Sun Jan 6 23:29:09 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1 In-Reply-To: <3C38C922.14920.FDF711F@localhost> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Thus sprang forth the Spaminator! The Spaminator is something I threw > together in about 10 minutes. What the Spaminator does is call the > offendor's number, wait for the voicemail to answer, dial a digit to cut > thru the outgoing message, then it starts singing simple tunes by playing > "spam" in different notes. I recorded a "spam" scale with my own voice. > Basically I sang "spam" starting from A and going to G. > > I created 10 different song files, with simple tunes such as "Mary Had a > Little Spam", "Twinkle Twinkle Little Spam", "Happy Spamday", "We > Shall > Overcome (the spam)", "Jingle Spam", "Popeye the Sailor Spam", and a > few > others. The Spaminator randomly selects three spam tunes to play for > each > call. It plays the tunes, then hangs up and calls right back up again. > The Spaminator is currently running, filling up the spammers voicemail box > with spam tunes. Hopefully, it will fill up the voicemail box and they > won't be able to receive any other messages. Also, it will bring them > much anguish as they constantly try to delete these messages that don't > stop coming. I can't remember if I followed up with a status report, but if I remember correctly, I forgot The Spaminator was running and let it go for a good 6 hours (costing my company close to maybe $200 in phone charges) until I checked in on it. When I did, the offender's mailbox was full. A couple days later when I called the number up, it was disconnected. Coincidence? You be the judge. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Golemancd at aol.com Sun Jan 6 23:59:09 2002 From: Golemancd at aol.com (Golemancd@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: Movie making and distributed robotics Message-ID: <16e.6c2af59.296a932d@aol.com> never heard of qnx. will check it out From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Mon Jan 7 00:10:11 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: Burroughs & adding machines Message-ID: <20020107061216.CZIP29297.imf13bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: John Lawson > I believe that in actual fact, Burroughs, after a few years of > night-and-day work on his mechanical calculator design, including tossing > one finished prototype out a second story window in frustration, patented > the *application* of a hydraulic damper to the actuator crank. His > problem was that if the actuator lever was pulled down by the operator > too quickly, the machine would jam very destructively. This 'bug' very > nearly killed the product in the early market. He added what amounts to a > small shock absorber to the crank lever, slowing it down enough so the > machine could operate efficiently but not be overdriven. Then, there was > no stopping it and the rest is well-known. I certainly don't mean to question your word, but can you provide specific references? Material published by William S. Burroughs (references available upon request) indicate that the problem was that *exactly* the proper amount of pressure had to be applied to the actuator lever in order to produce a correct result, which was nearly impossible. The hydraulic piston ensured that the same force was delivered to the machine no matter how much pressure was applied (as long as it was enough to depress the lever). This gave the Burroughs machine a huge advantage over competing products (several of which existed at the time and all had the same problem), and allowed it to capture the market. > Now, just a sec, I wanna check my spelling, grammar, syntax, > orthography, references, style, Flesch Rating, .... No shit, this list is a real shark tank these days when it comes to precision in expression ;>) Glen 0/0 From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Jan 7 01:14:21 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: Burroughs & adding machines In-Reply-To: <20020107061216.CZIP29297.imf13bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > > From: John Lawson [snip] > > I certainly don't mean to question your word, but can you provide specific > references? > Please, no problem! Kinda like 'peer-review' in scientific-journal-land! I have (somewhere) a Burroughs internal publication that outlines points of company history, in there is the article I'm refering to. It is packed away just now, but in a couple of months I'll have my library out of the boxes and back on the shelves, Insh'Allah! > Material published by William S. Burroughs (references available upon > request) indicate that the problem was that *exactly* the proper amount of > pressure had to be applied to the actuator lever in order to produce a > correct result, which was nearly impossible. The hydraulic piston ensured > that the same force was delivered to the machine no matter how much > pressure was applied (as long as it was enough to depress the lever). This > gave the Burroughs machine a huge advantage over competing products > (several of which existed at the time and all had the same problem), and > allowed it to capture the market. > Well, okay, I think we're describing the same symptom from slightly different viewpoints. My reference specifically mentions machine damage as a result of improper crank use; it is undoubtedly also the case that inaccurate results would also devolve from this; and in fact that would be far more serious a situation, since, in the case of gross mechanical failure, you at least know to check your results - because your desk is suddenly littered with oily springs and bent levers... crunch sproingggg (turn-of-last-century expletives deleted) > > Now, just a sec, I wanna check my spelling, grammar, syntax, > > orthography, references, style, Flesch Rating, .... > > No shit, this list is a real shark tank these days when it comes to > precision in expression ;>) > And I must place myself in that Group; faddish moronic mangling of English evokes my very strong underlying concern over the precipitous slide of overall American educational standards, the fact that ever-more-stupid teachers continue the downward spiral, and the market-driven grotesque Deification of vulgar pop-culture fueled by billions of indiscriminate young dollars. Most often I just delete %99 of the Beavis-and-Butthead stuff I see, but occasionally I simply wish to raise a little flag in the gathering Storm of Dumb. Now: contrast the above with the fact that, as my years advance (nearly 50) I find it increasingly more difficult to type without falling into egregious and repeated errors, mainly right-left handed letter transposition errors, and spelling errors that go undetected because I 'see' the word I *meant* to type instead of what actually came off the keyboard. I am using Pine under a Unix shell, (and have turned off my main wordprocessor spell checkers) in an effort to force myself to pay more attention. As well, I don't touch-type, I use four or five fingers and watch the keys, not the screen. I've tried several time to *learn* touch-typing; all that generates is smashed keyboards and frustration. And, back in the day, I could do 45 or 50 WPM consistently, and hardly make a mistake. Now, my geriatric throughput is... um.... uh, what were we talking about? ;} So: I can cast the stones up in the air and let them land on me, too. Cheers John From montkw at sbcglobal.net Mon Jan 7 00:22:19 2002 From: montkw at sbcglobal.net (montkw@sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: Moon Patrol? References: <3C390B44.9C897476@internet1.net> Message-ID: <004801c19743$ae2ef300$6401a8c0@hal9000ii> Chad, I have a copy of Moon Patrol in my archives. The trick is that it's on a 5.25" disk. I'll need to set back up a PC with a 5.25" drive to copy it. Give me a day or two... Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: "Classic Computers" Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 6:43 PM Subject: Moon Patrol? > Hello, > > Awhile back I bought a copy of Atari Moon Patrol for the PC on Ebay. > The disk doesn't work, and I can't fix it with Norton Disk Doctor. Does > anyone have a copy they could send to me? I looked on the internet and > all I can find is roms for emulation use. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jan 7 00:52:27 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: Moon Patrol? References: <3C390B44.9C897476@internet1.net> <004801c19743$ae2ef300$6401a8c0@hal9000ii> Message-ID: <3C3945AB.87DFF776@internet1.net> Ken, What? No 5.25" floppy hooked up, shame shame..... this is Classiccmp!! :-) Thanks for going through the trouble! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA montkw@sbcglobal.net wrote: > > Chad, > > I have a copy of Moon Patrol in my archives. The trick is that it's on a > 5.25" disk. I'll need to set back up a PC with a 5.25" drive to copy it. > Give me a day or two... > > Ken From rhudson at cnonline.net Mon Jan 7 00:28:21 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: FreeVMS References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020105235753.023a92e8@kerberos.davies.net.au> <5.1.0.14.0.20020105172150.02400d98@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <3C394005.9080504@cnonline.net> Remember the below comments are based on a rusty view of vms v3.x (before command histories) I have "PC DCL", it's a DOS shell that looks / acts like DCL. It's fun while it lasts but I miss some things about VMS/DCL - Authorize - Privilidges - the "version number" nnnnnnnn.eee;vvv - The other things I never learned about as an operator I think the tack of taking one of the Linux/netbsd... etc and putting on a DCL shell is not what is wanted. An X86 machine would never be able to run VMS binaries, but I don't think *nix is close enough to VMS to perform that feat. The rights situation is all different. The filesystem dosn't have version numbers, and I think most of them keep diferent dates (not the same dates as VMS). From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Mon Jan 7 00:30:45 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: Burroughs & adding machines (was Re: Language and English) Message-ID: <20020107063253.BXBK18093.imf07bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> [John Lawson wrote] > > I believe that in actual fact, Burroughs, after a few years of > > night-and-day work on his mechanical calculator design, including > > tossing one finished prototype out a second story window in frustration, > > patented the *application* of a hydraulic damper to the actuator crank. [John Allain replied] > This is an interesting and worthy topic. > Just enter "William Seward Burroughs" into a search engine to > verify what John said. That's the name of both the calculator > inventor and the writer, but the writer seldom used his middle > name, making it a good search string. I just did that and came up with this site http://www.invent.org/book/book-text/17.html which contradicts Mr. Lawson's "destructive jam" theory (no offense to John L.) and supports the ideas I put forth in my previous post. Glen -- William S. Burroughs fan since 1973 0/0 From hansp at aconit.org Mon Jan 7 01:32:10 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: Mini-Mini computer scans References: <3C3886ED.3FA0F487@attbi.com> Message-ID: <3C394EFA.5080209@aconit.org> Thanks to Doug for saving these and making them available. To find the scans see www.aconit.org/minimini/ Doug, please let me know if I mangled you email too badly. Regards, -- hbp From mhstein at usa.net Mon Jan 7 01:36:51 2002 From: mhstein at usa.net (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: Lithium/Lithium-ion batteries Message-ID: <01C1972B.1A713820@mse-d03> I recharge primary alkalines all the time; roughly doubles their life, although useful time before they need recharging drops substantially. Can't let them run down too far though, gotta recharge 'em while there's still life left, sort of the opposite of NiCads.. mike -------------------Original Message------------------- From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Re: Lithium/Lithium-ion batteries Incidentally, another statement often made which is also incorrect is 'Do not recharge alkaline batteries'. It's intended to apply to the primary alkaline batteries like Duracells. But, of course, the NiCd (and other) batteries use an alkaline electrolyte and those are designed to be recharged. - -tony From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 7 03:19:15 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: recharging batteries (was: Re: Lithium/Lithium-ion batteries) In-Reply-To: <01C1972B.1A713820@mse-d03> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, M H Stein wrote: > I recharge primary alkalines all the time; roughly doubles their life, > although useful time before they need recharging drops substantially. > Can't let them run down too far though, gotta recharge 'em while > there's still life left, sort of the opposite of NiCads.. It's possible to recharge these quite a few times, but the voltage and current have to be just right. Ambient temperature also plays a role. 62-74dF would probably be the ideal range. It is true that the more discharged an alkaline cell is, the less it will recover. A properly functioning NiCad charger will provide a charging voltage around 1.2 to 1.3 volts, depending on the type of charger. One of the rechargeable "renewable/green" alkaline chargers should be closer to the proper charging voltage of 1.5v for standard alkaline cells. I still wouldn't recommend anyone not familiar with battery technology and safety attempt to recharge standard alkaline cells, since overcharge could lead to the battery leaking or exploding. -Toth From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Jan 7 03:26:55 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: Almost On-Topic: DEC AHA1742B Firmware In-Reply-To: ; from tothwolf@concentric.net on Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 02:47:42 CET References: Message-ID: <20020107102655.L12839@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.01.07 02:47 Tothwolf wrote: > I also found a pair of AHA-2742AT EISA SCSI controllers. Anyone > familiar with these? I have two of this adapters in my dual P120 EISA/PCI machine. They are dual channel FastSCSI 2 adapters and work well with *BSD and Linux. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 7 03:44:34 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: Almost On-Topic: DEC AHA1742B Firmware In-Reply-To: <20020107102655.L12839@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On 2002.01.07 02:47 Tothwolf wrote: > > > I also found a pair of AHA-2742AT EISA SCSI controllers. Anyone > > familiar with these? > > I have two of this adapters in my dual P120 EISA/PCI machine. They are > dual channel FastSCSI 2 adapters and work well with *BSD and Linux. Thanks for the specs. Sounds like something I might want to use later. I think I still have some EISA 486 boards around somewhere. Gotta keep a look out for an EISA pentium board too I guess. Not quite classics yet, but EISA stuff does have an unusual history... -Toth From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Jan 7 05:22:04 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: Almost On-Topic: DEC AHA1742B Firmware In-Reply-To: ; from tothwolf@concentric.net on Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 03:44:34AM -0600 References: <20020107102655.L12839@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20020107122204.A28330@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 03:44:34AM -0600, Tothwolf wrote: > Thanks for the specs. Sounds like something I might want to use later. I > think I still have some EISA 486 boards around somewhere. Gotta keep a > look out for an EISA pentium board too I guess. I intended to use the machine as dedicated NFS Server with software RAID (FreeBSD/vinum). But the main board does not work reliable. It gets memory errors. I swaped all SIMMs and even the cache chips, but the porblem persists. PeeCee crap... I am now looking for an EISA Alpha to reuse the two Adaptecs and the 2MB ATI Mach64 EISA card with NetBSD... > Not quite classics yet, > but EISA stuff does have an unusual history... I think we get the "unusual stuff dispense". ;-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Jan 7 03:26:55 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: Almost On-Topic: DEC AHA1742B Firmware In-Reply-To: ; from tothwolf@concentric.net on Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 02:47:42 CET References: Message-ID: <20020107102655.L12839@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.01.07 02:47 Tothwolf wrote: > I also found a pair of AHA-2742AT EISA SCSI controllers. Anyone > familiar with these? I have two of this adapters in my dual P120 EISA/PCI machine. They are dual channel FastSCSI 2 adapters and work well with *BSD and Linux. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 7 05:36:05 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: Almost On-Topic: DEC AHA1742B Firmware In-Reply-To: <20020107122204.A28330@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 03:44:34AM -0600, Tothwolf wrote: > > > Thanks for the specs. Sounds like something I might want to use later. I > > think I still have some EISA 486 boards around somewhere. Gotta keep a > > look out for an EISA pentium board too I guess. > > I intended to use the machine as dedicated NFS Server with software > RAID (FreeBSD/vinum). But the main board does not work reliable. It > gets memory errors. I swaped all SIMMs and even the cache chips, but > the porblem persists. PeeCee crap... Been there, done that. Seems to be a large number of the "cheap junk" boards give everything else a bad reputation. Only thing worse than memory or other visible errors are the random hard lockups or resets. -Toth From mgortych at ntplx.com Mon Jan 7 07:45:22 2002 From: mgortych at ntplx.com (Mike Gortych) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: HP2000 availability/nomenclature Message-ID: <000601c19781$8eb1d900$0314a8c0@jupiter2> Rick, You are correct! This command set remains one of my all time favorites. I just wonder who was the engineer who developed that command. We had a drum storage device on our 2000 and it spun a bearing one day and made a very loud squealing sound that scared the bejesus out of us. Before it died, I did have the opportunity to sanctify and desicrate several files. If you have any other 2000 tidbits like this one, please post them. Thanks! Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020107/ab0fc736/attachment.html From mgortych at ntplx.com Mon Jan 7 07:48:15 2002 From: mgortych at ntplx.com (Mike Gortych) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: HP2000 availability/nomenclature Message-ID: <000601c19781$f53e22f0$0314a8c0@jupiter2> oooo, good one.....lemme guess...I bet you had to csave the file first? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020107/e18d8622/attachment.html From rickb at bensene.com Mon Jan 7 09:15:04 2002 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: HP2000 availability/nomenclature In-Reply-To: <200201070323.g073N9k47783@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <001301c1978e$15b072c0$0503eecd@bensene.com> CSAve it. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Frank McConnell > Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 7:23 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: HP2000 availability/nomenclature > > > Mike Gortych asked: > >> Also, I have a trivia question for you...what commands > were used to > >> add and remove files from the drum disk drive? > > "Rick Bensene" wrote in reply: > > Wasn't it SANCTIFY (SAN-) and DESECRATE (DES-)? > > That's what I think too, but I think I answered this question > when Mike asked over in comp.sys.hp. a couple or three > years ago. > > Next trivia question: what did you have to do to a program > file before you could SANCTIFY it? > > -Frank McConnell > From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Jan 7 07:54:38 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: References: <20020104104221.B890971@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <3C39B6AE.18398.F301DA4B@localhost> > > Damn, people, do you think we could give this a rest already? If it bugs you > > to read shit that's, well, hard to read, just use the "delete" button. That's > > what I do. For god's sake, I majored in English, and I seem to be less > > worried about it then many others on this list ;-) > In my freshman year at the University of Michigan in the early postwar > years I took a semester course in English taught by an instructor who > acknowledged he could not spell and stated to the class that he "didn't > think it was important". Seems likely he was one of the early advocates > that started us on the downhill road to where we are now. It could be of some archeoligical interest to note name and existence of this this guy :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From wilby98 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 7 08:02:15 2002 From: wilby98 at yahoo.com (William S.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <3C39B6AE.18398.F301DA4B@localhost>; from Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de on Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 02:54:38PM +0100 References: <20020104104221.B890971@uiuc.edu> <3C39B6AE.18398.F301DA4B@localhost> Message-ID: <20020107150213.C18694@xs4all.nl> Thank you for posting the info about VCF in your sig. I will put it on my agenda. Bill Amsterdam, NL On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 02:54:38PM +0100, Hans Franke wrote: <> > Gruss > H. > > -- > VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Jan 7 08:09:46 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <10201042159.ZM17121@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: "Hans Franke" "Re: Language and English" (Jan 4, 18:33) Message-ID: <3C39BA3A.18751.F30FB460@localhost> > On Jan 4, 18:33, Hans Franke wrote: > > > When I was in the 8th grade, one of the courses we were required > > > to take was in typing. I've never gotten particularly good at > > > it, but I did learn that a period at the end of a sentence is > > > followed by two spaces, for example. > > Thank you very much. So it seams there is a 'school' forcing this in > > the US .... and I always wondered why some people add two spaces after > > a period. > It's a recognised standard in English. Well, from some other messages I got the idea that there are still some more differences between Englisch and US typing rules. > The idea is to make sentence spaces larger than word spaces. > Curiously, it's not common in the printing profession, and not at > all in other languages. Well, Bear Stricklins Mail (Danke) added quite some flesh to this. > I imagine Hans was taught that it's "wrong", since I imagine > he learned to type in German. I was well aware about special (manual) handling for spaces on old typesetting machinerie, but never bridged the gap to typewriter usage. And no, I've never been told it's wrong - the question simply never came up at all. At least for every day typing (yes, I did take two years a typin' class at school, but all wat's left is the proper use of the space key :) there was only two trules about spaces (AFAIR): Three (or one, sinplified) at the beginning of a new paragraph, and one after each punktuation (and none before). We been told about some odd formats for accounting, but I realy don't remember. As for myself, at some point I startet to insert a space before all exklamation and question marks to make them better visibly, but that's against any 'common' style. Gruss H. P.S.: In my opinion this facts are _very_ on topic, because it touches a lot of the heritage computing took from typesetting and typewriteing. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From at258 at osfn.org Mon Jan 7 08:30:02 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <3C39BA3A.18751.F30FB460@localhost> Message-ID: I, too, find it of immense interest. I recall being taught that paragraphs were indented 5 spaces. I also remember that this was not universal, as there was another variation, called "block style" which was not indented at all. I have been looking at a number of books, and noticed that some have a single space between sentences, others two spaces. This occurrs in both US and UK editions. I even noticed a German grammar in blackletter that uses the double spaces, although it was US printed. I do notice, though, that the double spacing enhances the readability of the text. On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Hans Franke wrote: > > On Jan 4, 18:33, Hans Franke wrote: > > > > When I was in the 8th grade, one of the courses we were required > > > > to take was in typing. I've never gotten particularly good at > > > > it, but I did learn that a period at the end of a sentence is > > > > followed by two spaces, for example. > > > Thank you very much. So it seams there is a 'school' forcing this in > > > the US .... and I always wondered why some people add two spaces after > > > a period. > > > It's a recognised standard in English. > > Well, from some other messages I got the idea that there are still > some more differences between Englisch and US typing rules. > > > The idea is to make sentence spaces larger than word spaces. > > Curiously, it's not common in the printing profession, and not at > > all in other languages. > > Well, Bear Stricklins Mail (Danke) added quite some flesh to this. > > > I imagine Hans was taught that it's "wrong", since I imagine > > he learned to type in German. > > I was well aware about special (manual) handling for spaces on > old typesetting machinerie, but never bridged the gap to typewriter > usage. And no, I've never been told it's wrong - the question > simply never came up at all. At least for every day typing (yes, > I did take two years a typin' class at school, but all wat's left > is the proper use of the space key :) there was only two trules > about spaces (AFAIR): Three (or one, sinplified) at the beginning > of a new paragraph, and one after each punktuation (and none before). > We been told about some odd formats for accounting, but I realy don't > remember. > > As for myself, at some point I startet to insert a space before > all exklamation and question marks to make them better visibly, > but that's against any 'common' style. > > Gruss > H. > > P.S.: In my opinion this facts are _very_ on topic, because it > touches a lot of the heritage computing took from typesetting > and typewriteing. > > -- > VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Jan 7 10:03:36 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: References: <3C39BA3A.18751.F30FB460@localhost> Message-ID: <3C39D4E8.31808.F377EC4E@localhost> > > > > > When I was in the 8th grade, one of the courses we were required > > > > > to take was in typing. I've never gotten particularly good at > > > > > it, but I did learn that a period at the end of a sentence is > > > > > followed by two spaces, for example. > > > > Thank you very much. So it seams there is a 'school' forcing this in > > > > the US .... and I always wondered why some people add two spaces after > > > > a period. > > > I imagine Hans was taught that it's "wrong", since I imagine > > > he learned to type in German. > > there was only two trules > > about spaces (AFAIR): Three (or one, sinplified) at the beginning > > of a new paragraph, and one after each punktuation (and none before). > > We been told about some odd formats for accounting, but I realy don't > > remember. > I, too, find it of immense interest. I recall being taught that > paragraphs were indented 5 spaces. I also remember that this was not > universal, as there was another variation, called "block style" which was > not indented at all. Jep, same here - we been told that for strict business letters there may be no intended first line at all. > I have been looking at a number of books, and noticed that some have a > single space between sentences, others two spaces. This occurrs in both > US and UK editions. I even noticed a German grammar in blackletter that > uses the double spaces, although it was US printed. I do notice, though, > that the double spacing enhances the readability of the text. The world of books (and typesetting) has always been very international, and therefore mixed up. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jan 7 10:55:59 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: Language and English References: <3C39BA3A.18751.F30FB460@localhost> <3C39D4E8.31808.F377EC4E@localhost> Message-ID: <002a01c1979c$2eabfc00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> My mother received all her schooling, including being taught to type, among other things, in Germany, where Hans is a native. I figured that she could settle this matter, if anyone could, so, just to satisfy my own curious interest, while having Sunday dinner with my mother, I asked about the convention regarding spaces after a period. She informed me that it was the convention in 1935 Germany, to leave two spaces after a period. This was probably done for the same reasons as here in the U.S. but I was curious as to whether it was unique to the U.S. and Britain. Perhaps you can see the sense in this, but, of course, it's arguable that it wastes a space. I believe it's much easier to parse out the sentences, particularly for people like me, who visually capture more than one sentence at a time when speed-reading. I think I'd experience a 60-80% reduction in reading speed, which would still be quite a brisk pace to some folks, if I had to work around higher density on the page than that to which I've accustomed myself over the past 40+ years. I learned this when I was in my early teens, as, back then, the school system wanted people to learn not only to read, but to read quickly and retain the content of what they'd read. Of course, now that I have to wear reading glasses when I'm reading, I am somewhat slower anyway, but the established format is, I'm sure, key to the way I've been reading all these years. That probably also explains why odd formats bother me so much. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Franke" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 9:03 AM Subject: Re: Language and English > > > > > > When I was in the 8th grade, one of the courses we were required > > > > > > to take was in typing. I've never gotten particularly good at > > > > > > it, but I did learn that a period at the end of a sentence is > > > > > > followed by two spaces, for example. > > > > > Thank you very much. So it seams there is a 'school' forcing this in > > > > > the US .... and I always wondered why some people add two spaces after > > > > > a period. > > > > > I imagine Hans was taught that it's "wrong", since I imagine > > > > he learned to type in German. > > > > there was only two trules > > > about spaces (AFAIR): Three (or one, sinplified) at the beginning > > > of a new paragraph, and one after each punktuation (and none before). > > > We been told about some odd formats for accounting, but I realy don't > > > remember. > > > I, too, find it of immense interest. I recall being taught that > > paragraphs were indented 5 spaces. I also remember that this was not > > universal, as there was another variation, called "block style" which was > > not indented at all. > > Jep, same here - we been told that for strict business letters there > may be no intended first line at all. > > > I have been looking at a number of books, and noticed that some have a > > single space between sentences, others two spaces. This occurrs in both > > US and UK editions. I even noticed a German grammar in blackletter that > > uses the double spaces, although it was US printed. I do notice, though, > > that the double spacing enhances the readability of the text. > > The world of books (and typesetting) has always been very international, > and therefore mixed up. > > Gruss > H. > > -- > VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ > > From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Jan 7 08:31:54 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3C39BF6A.10541.F323F5CC@localhost> > >It's all part of syntax and style, not grammar as you say. How many > >people on this list ever turned in a paper where the teacher/professor > >insisted on strict adherence to "Strunk and White"? > Me Me Me... but ironically it was a "Creative Writing" class... so I > scratched my head, flipped him the bird, and walked out to see the > registrar's office about being moved to a different professor. Strunk and White ??? Could somebody explain this to a simple foreingenr ? ;) H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From at258 at osfn.org Mon Jan 7 08:32:30 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:18 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <3C39BF6A.10541.F323F5CC@localhost> Message-ID: Strunk and White's book, Elements of Style, is a very good, very concise manual for writing, covering most of the nasty bits we've been discussing, and myriad others. There is also an Elements of Programming Style which follows its spirit for programming use. On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Hans Franke wrote: > > >It's all part of syntax and style, not grammar as you say. How many > > >people on this list ever turned in a paper where the teacher/professor > > >insisted on strict adherence to "Strunk and White"? > > > Me Me Me... but ironically it was a "Creative Writing" class... so I > > scratched my head, flipped him the bird, and walked out to see the > > registrar's office about being moved to a different professor. > > Strunk and White ??? > > Could somebody explain this to a simple foreingenr ? > > ;) > > H. > > -- > VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jan 7 08:42:33 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <3C39BF6A.10541.F323F5CC@localhost> from Hans Franke at "Jan 7, 2 03:31:54 pm" Message-ID: <200201071442.GAA09148@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > >It's all part of syntax and style, not grammar as you say. How many > > >people on this list ever turned in a paper where the teacher/professor > > >insisted on strict adherence to "Strunk and White"? > > > Me Me Me... but ironically it was a "Creative Writing" class... so I > > scratched my head, flipped him the bird, and walked out to see the > > registrar's office about being moved to a different professor. > > Strunk and White ??? > Could somebody explain this to a simple foreingenr ? > ;) Two sadists who through elemental methods of mind control and an intricate network of conspirators throughout the American educational system sought to inflict their standards of punctuation, writing style and essay form on millions of innocent and otherwise ignorant students. Okay, only the last half is the truth, but I suffered under it too :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Just another Sojourner of the Dispersion (1 Peter 1:1) --------------------- From dtwright at uiuc.edu Mon Jan 7 16:00:30 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: ; from doc@mdrconsult.com on Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 02:36:48PM -0600 References: <20020104133324.G890971@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <20020107160030.C1092782@uiuc.edu> Doc said: > > If my opinion matters, I don't think you should do that. GPG and PGP > are under attack by the US law enforcement agencies, and need all the > visible support possible. The signature is one of the very few common > email attachments with any intelligent value. It is small, and doesn't > seriously impact the bandwidth-limited connection. It is very easily > identified, and if the recipient is all that concerned, easily verified > as well. I agree, in general. That's why I really started using GPG in the first place. However, I'm only dropping it in sending to this list since people have complained, not in my other correspondance...perhaps if people's mailers stop being brain-dead, I'll send my signature to the list again :) > > I vote leave it there. As soon as I win this argument with Pine, mine > will be back on. > > Doc - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From dtwright at uiuc.edu Mon Jan 7 16:05:04 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: <001d01c19563$a4c29100$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>; from edick@idcomm.com on Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 02:06:13PM -0700 References: <34.207fe82c.29670489@aol.com> <001801c19536$af89c9a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <20020104104221.B890971@uiuc.edu> <001301c19544$55517100$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <20020104114552.F890971@uiuc.edu> <004b01c1954b$6288c1a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <20020104133324.G890971@uiuc.edu> <001d01c19563$a4c29100$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20020107160504.D1092782@uiuc.edu> Richard Erlacher said: > I got a message this time. Apparently your mailer doesn't do what you think > it does. Actually, it does. I've looked at my mail spool after e-mailing myself. The real problem is that outlook is brain-dead... The message is sent as mulipart/MIME, with the first part being the text of the message and the other part being the signature. Clearly outlook doesn't understand how to process MIME the right way; it should recognize that part 1 is plain text and display it, and that part 2 is something it doesn't know about. I've talked to others (not on this list) about it, and the only mailers that seem to have this problem are 1) outlook, and 2) some e-mail appliances. I stand by outlook being brain-dead in dealing with this, but I'm dropping sending the signature to the list for the time being since it's causing problems, and it's not so important to me if my list traffic is signed... anything I send in private mail will continue to include it, though, so be aware in case I ever send you anything off-list ;-) > > If you figure omitting your message is not a problem, then why post it? > > I don't know what your mailer's documents tell you it does, but I've seen > this before, and it doesn't just put the signature in the attachment, but, > rather, puts the entire message in it, so one gets an empty message with a > pair of attachments, one of which is the message as a .txt file and the > other of which is a .dat file, albeit not what Windows, if that matters, > expects to find in a .dat file, which is a music file of some sort, since it > brings up the media player to process it. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Wright" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 12:33 PM > Subject: Re: Language and English > > > > jeez! ok, if it's causing such problems, i'll tell my mailer to stop > > attaching my signature if i'm sending from this mailbox... hope that > helps... > > > > Richard Erlacher said: > > > Yup! Here's another one ... a blank message with an attachment. > > > > > > Of course I won't open it ... > > > > > > Dick > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Dan Wright" > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 10:45 AM > > > Subject: Re: Language and English > > > > > > > > - Dan Wright > > (dtwright@uiuc.edu) > > (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) > > > > -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- > > ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, > > For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' > > Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan > > > > - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 7 16:40:58 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: Language and English In-Reply-To: Dan Wright "Re: Language and English" (Jan 7, 16:05) References: <34.207fe82c.29670489@aol.com> <001801c19536$af89c9a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <20020104104221.B890971@uiuc.edu> <001301c19544$55517100$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <20020104114552.F890971@uiuc.edu> <004b01c1954b$6288c1a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <20020104133324.G890971@uiuc.edu> <001d01c19563$a4c29100$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <20020107160504.D1092782@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <10201072240.ZM21364@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 7, 16:05, Dan Wright wrote: > real problem is that outlook is brain-dead... The message is sent as > mulipart/MIME, with the first part being the text of the message and the other > part being the signature. Clearly outlook doesn't understand how to process > MIME the right way; it should recognize that part 1 is plain text and display > it, and that part 2 is something it doesn't know about. I've talked to others > (not on this list) about it, and the only mailers that seem to have this > problem are 1) outlook, and 2) some e-mail appliances. Nope, zmail and MediaMail both see it as multipart but don't see the first part as the main text part, so they don't show the text straight off, just a multipart attachment. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jan 7 08:00:46 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225CA3@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > From: Douglas Quebbeman > > > > > Heh. Mexican speed wrench... > > > > > > Funny, I've always heard it referred to as a *Kentucky* speed > > > wrench ;>) > > > > I like that even better! But down yonder, they have > > to be carefull with them, after all, they *really* > > hurt when they're dropped on bare feet... > > Same thing in KY ;>) That what I meant! Barefoot Kentuckians! -dq From paul at wccnet.org Mon Jan 7 08:27:50 2002 From: paul at wccnet.org (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: FORTH for TRS Model 100 Message-ID: Sorry for the delay, but my real life got busy. Back on Nov 12 I offered FORTH for the TRS Model 100 to the list. Two people replied, so I did not need a computerized random number generator this time. I flipped a coin. I will be contacting the winner by e-mail. Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA From bdwheele at indiana.edu Mon Jan 7 08:29:57 2002 From: bdwheele at indiana.edu (Brian Wheeler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <3C394005.9080504@cnonline.net> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020105235753.023a92e8@kerberos.davies.net.au> <5.1.0.14.0.20020105172150.02400d98@127.0.0.1> <3C394005.9080504@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <1010413797.2334.2.camel@wombat.educ.indiana.edu> On Mon, 2002-01-07 at 01:28, Ron Hudson wrote: > Remember the below comments are based on a rusty view of > vms v3.x (before command histories) > > I have "PC DCL", it's a DOS shell that looks / acts like DCL. > It's fun while it lasts but I miss some things about VMS/DCL > - Authorize > - Privilidges > - the "version number" nnnnnnnn.eee;vvv > - The other things I never learned about as an operator > > > I think the tack of taking one of the Linux/netbsd... etc > and putting on a DCL shell is not what is wanted. > > An X86 machine would never be able to run VMS binaries, but > I don't think *nix is close enough to VMS to perform that > feat. Well, I don't believe that even Itanium has the 4 level protection structure that the VAX/Alpha has, but the Compaq engineers are porting VMS to it anyway. > > The rights situation is all different. The filesystem dosn't > have version numbers, and I think most of them keep diferent > dates (not the same dates as VMS). > Why not use a unix kernel as simply a layer for device drivers which provides a common interface to the hardware? Sure there might have to be some funky workarounds for things like shared memory, and process structure, but those are implementation details. The AROS project did this for AmigaDOS: built the libraries as linux shared libraries and executables. When that was working well enough, they wrote a simple kernel which provided enough services for them to load the libraries and executables. There is a caveat compared to AROS: AmigaDOS is a shared address-space OS, whereas VMS has separate address spaces for each program. This might be a problem, though I believe there has been a unix on unix implementation (where each program got its own process space). A similar approach might work for VMS. Implement a 'kernel' as a unix program, and work from there. Things like filesystems and privs would get handled by this program (or others linked to it) and could be tested one at a time until a base system is available, at which point it could be implemented on other hardware as standalone. Brian Wheeler bdwheele@indiana.edu From als at thangorodrim.de Mon Jan 7 10:58:10 2002 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <1010413797.2334.2.camel@wombat.educ.indiana.edu> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020105235753.023a92e8@kerberos.davies.net.au> <5.1.0.14.0.20020105172150.02400d98@127.0.0.1> <3C394005.9080504@cnonline.net> <1010413797.2334.2.camel@wombat.educ.indiana.edu> Message-ID: <20020107165810.GA15728@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 09:29:57AM -0500, Brian Wheeler wrote: > > executables. There is a caveat compared to AROS: AmigaDOS is a shared > address-space OS, whereas VMS has separate address spaces for each > program. This might be a problem, though I believe there has been a > unix on unix implementation (where each program got its own process > space). There exists at least UML == User Mode Linux. This is a port of the Linux kernel to its own syscall interface. With UML you have a full kernel running as a normal process - providing a full Linux environment. This can be used for quite some interesting things - security (virtual hosting, chroot() on steroids, ...) and development (debug the live kernel, try to crash it, ...) are a few that come to mind. Regards, Alex. -- q: If you were young again, would you start writing TeX again or would you use Microsoft Word, or another word processor? a: I hope to die before I *have* to use Microsoft Word. -- Harald Koenig asking Donald E. Knuth From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jan 7 10:14:41 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: FreeVMS Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E0A9@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Zach Malone [mailto:Diff@Mac.com] > > > > If it doesn't have wheels, it isn't really a computer. > > What about rackmount gear? Generally counts since the rack would have wheels, I guess. :) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 7 14:05:31 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: Racks (was RE: FreeVMS) In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E0A9@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <20020107200531.28924.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> --- Christopher Smith wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Zach Malone [mailto:Diff@Mac.com] > > > > > > If it doesn't have wheels, it isn't really a computer. > > > > What about rackmount gear? > > Generally counts since the rack would have wheels, I guess. :) Depends on the rack. DEC H960 cabs have wheels. The stuff we were getting recently, with movable internal, pre-threaded rails, front and back plexiglass doors, have pegs. I should have said the DEC stuff has wheels and typically has pegs for levelling/anti-roll. The one thing I like about modern cabinets is that it's easy to fit shelves, since most modern gear does not have rackmount ears unless you get back into the high-end. Old DEC stuff was always rackable, so shelves didn't matter. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From ernestls at attbi.com Mon Jan 7 14:58:02 2002 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: MicroSCI Havac system disks? In-Reply-To: <20020107200531.28924.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Does anyone have the system disks and/or user manual for this computer? Thanks. Ernest From paul at wccnet.org Mon Jan 7 08:38:25 2002 From: paul at wccnet.org (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: BYAD CP/M disks Message-ID: I have two pairs of BYAD 5.25" diskettes for CP/M-80 Version 2.20. One of each pair is a System Disk, the other is a Program Disk. Condition unknown, no way to test. Does anyone want these? Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA From donm at cts.com Mon Jan 7 12:36:41 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: BYAD CP/M disks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Paul R. Santa-Maria wrote: > I have two pairs of BYAD 5.25" diskettes for CP/M-80 Version 2.20. One of > each pair is a System Disk, the other is a Program Disk. > > Condition unknown, no way to test. Does anyone want these? Sure do, Paul. I'll archive them. - don From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Jan 7 08:44:39 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: More off-topic drivel: Re: Language and English In-Reply-To: <10201050128.ZM17877@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" "Re: More off-topic drivel: Re: Language and English" (Jan 4, 19:34) Message-ID: <3C39C267.28359.F32FA512@localhost> > On Jan 4, 19:34, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > A Plan for the Improvement of English Spelling > > by Mark Twain > It is wonderful, although it's not by Mark Twain, but by M.J. Shields in a > letter to The Economist. It was in response to George Bernard Shaw's > suggestions to reform the English alphabet by adding 14 letters to > eliminate spelling anomalies. Another wonder in the same vein is to be > found at http://www.d.kth.se/~d92-abj/humor/spelling_reform.html. It > concludes: > Kontinuing cis proses, ier after ier, we would eventuali hav a reali > sensibl writen langug. By 1975, wi ventyur tu sei, cer wud bi no mor uv ces > teribli trublsum difikultis, wic no tu leters usd to indikeit ce seim nois, > and laikwais no tui noises riten wic ce seim leter. Even Mr. Yaw, wi beliv, > wud be hapi in ce nog cat his drims fainali keim tru. :)) Jep. What I like most is that similar aproaches are available to German, eliminateing most letters ... keep in mind that German has already a mostly phonetic spelling ... And the replacements are likewise selected. :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From donm at cts.com Mon Jan 7 12:34:08 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: More off-topic drivel: Re: Language and English In-Reply-To: <3C39C267.28359.F32FA512@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Hans Franke wrote: > > On Jan 4, 19:34, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > > A Plan for the Improvement of English Spelling > > > by Mark Twain > Jep. What I like most is that similar aproaches are available to German, > eliminateing most letters ... keep in mind that German has already a mostly > phonetic spelling ... And the replacements are likewise selected. That may be so, but I have never been able to understand how Muenchen(?) ever got to be translated to Munich. Obviously, there are some pronounciation differences that I am missing! - don From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Jan 7 13:16:00 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: More off-topic drivel: Re: Language and English In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020107140101.00aa8250@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: Message-ID: <3C3A0200.20680.F428124D@localhost> > >That may be so, but I have never been able to understand how Muenchen(?) > >ever got to be translated to Munich. > Or Koln to Cologne That's not hard, Colongne is just the old lattin name of Koeln. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de Mon Jan 7 13:43:09 2002 From: ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de (Michael Schneider) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: More off-topic drivel: Re: Language and English In-Reply-To: <3C3A0200.20680.F428124D@localhost> References: <3C3A0200.20680.F428124D@localhost> Message-ID: <1010432590.10160.7.camel@silke> Nooo, that's 'Colonia Agripina'. Cologne comes from the old french transliteration 'Colognia' ms On Mon, 2002-01-07 at 20:16, Hans Franke wrote: > > >That may be so, but I have never been able to understand how Muenchen(?) > > >ever got to be translated to Munich. > > > Or Koln to Cologne > > That's not hard, Colongne is just the old lattin name of Koeln. > > Gruss > H. > > -- > VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ > -- Michael Schneider email: ms@vaxcluster.de Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de People disagree with me. I just ignore them. (Linus Torvalds) From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Mon Jan 7 13:01:42 2002 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: More off-topic drivel: Re: Language and English In-Reply-To: References: <3C39C267.28359.F32FA512@localhost> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020107140101.00aa8250@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 10:34 AM 1/7/02 -0800, you wrote: >That may be so, but I have never been able to understand how Muenchen(?) >ever got to be translated to Munich. Or Koln to Cologne From at258 at osfn.org Mon Jan 7 13:32:02 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: More off-topic drivel: Re: Language and English In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020107140101.00aa8250@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: I've always thought Leghorn and Juggernaut were more outrageous interpretations. On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Gene Ehrich wrote: > At 10:34 AM 1/7/02 -0800, you wrote: > >That may be so, but I have never been able to understand how Muenchen(?) > >ever got to be translated to Munich. > > Or Koln to Cologne > > > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Jan 7 13:10:36 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: More off-topic drivel: Re: Language and English In-Reply-To: References: <3C39C267.28359.F32FA512@localhost> Message-ID: <3C3A00BC.23893.F4231EA9@localhost> > > > > A Plan for the Improvement of English Spelling > > > > by Mark Twain > > Jep. What I like most is that similar aproaches are available to German, > > eliminateing most letters ... keep in mind that German has already a mostly > > phonetic spelling ... And the replacements are likewise selected. > That may be so, but I have never been able to understand how Muenchen(?) > ever got to be translated to Munich. Obviously, there are some > pronounciation differences that I am missing! It's not about Pronounciation, but rather history. For one thing, there is at least a dozend named for Munich Standard German: Muenchen (ue = umlaut u) Bavarian: Minga (Note, we got our own name :) Latin: Monacensis Englich: Munich French: Munich (Pronounciation differs dramaticly from English) Italian: Monaco Turkish: Munih (umlaut dots above the u and no dot on the i) Czech: Mnichow (Most slavic languages variy here only the spelling) Hungarian .... And a lot more I don't remember at the moment. Since the oldest _known_ part is connected to a monk settlement, basicly all the names are variations thereof - the official founding date is 1158, but that's only the oldest known text to name the city. Foundations tell that the oldest known settlements are at least 4 to 7 hundred years older. So take some 1000 years of history of a place along known trade routes, and people wll tell about the place and start to adaptr the name in their own language. And at least for the French Name, it's just taken from Muncih coins - the Name of the City in the 12th century, as used is said docunent was Munichen. When on coins space for lettes was even more rare than bytes on earyl computers, so they often droped letters. For the Englisch, I assume they just took the French spelling and changed the pronounciation over the years (as the french did also). So after all, it's no translation, just a sign of changes over the years. Today we belive way to often that things like names are static and have to be the same everywhere. As for myself, I'm proud to live in a city well known to lots of people to give names of their own. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From donm at cts.com Mon Jan 7 13:45:30 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: More off-topic drivel: Re: Language and English In-Reply-To: <3C3A00BC.23893.F4231EA9@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Hans Franke wrote: > > > > > A Plan for the Improvement of English Spelling > > > > > by Mark Twain > > > > Jep. What I like most is that similar aproaches are available to German, > > > eliminateing most letters ... keep in mind that German has already a mostly > > > phonetic spelling ... And the replacements are likewise selected. > > > That may be so, but I have never been able to understand how Muenchen(?) > > ever got to be translated to Munich. Obviously, there are some > > pronounciation differences that I am missing! > > It's not about Pronounciation, but rather history. For one thing, > there is at least a dozend named for Munich > > Standard German: Muenchen (ue = umlaut u) > Bavarian: Minga (Note, we got our own name :) > Latin: Monacensis > Englich: Munich > French: Munich (Pronounciation differs dramaticly from English) > Italian: Monaco > Turkish: Munih (umlaut dots above the u and no dot on the i) > Czech: Mnichow (Most slavic languages variy here only the spelling) > Hungarian .... And a lot more I don't remember at the moment. > > Since the oldest _known_ part is connected to a monk settlement, basicly > all the names are variations thereof - the official founding date is 1158, > but that's only the oldest known text to name the city. Foundations tell > that the oldest known settlements are at least 4 to 7 hundred years older. > > So take some 1000 years of history of a place along known trade routes, > and people wll tell about the place and start to adaptr the name in their > own language. > > And at least for the French Name, it's just taken from Muncih coins - the > Name of the City in the 12th century, as used is said docunent was Munichen. > When on coins space for lettes was even more rare than bytes on earyl computers, > so they often droped letters. For the Englisch, I assume they just took the > French spelling and changed the pronounciation over the years (as the french > did also). > > So after all, it's no translation, just a sign of changes over the years. > Today we belive way to often that things like names are static and have to > be the same everywhere. As for myself, I'm proud to live in a city well > known to lots of people to give names of their own. > > Gruss > H. > > -- > VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ > Thank you Hans, that clears up a lot! - don From dankolb at ox.compsoc.net Mon Jan 7 15:28:46 2002 From: dankolb at ox.compsoc.net (Dan Kolb) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: More off-topic drivel: Re: Language and English In-Reply-To: <3C3A00BC.23893.F4231EA9@localhost> References: <3C39C267.28359.F32FA512@localhost> <3C3A00BC.23893.F4231EA9@localhost> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 07 Jan 2002 19:10 pm, Hans Franke wrote: > Standard German: Muenchen (ue = umlaut u) > Bavarian: Minga (Note, we got our own name :) > Latin: Monacensis > Englich: Munich > French: Munich (Pronounciation differs dramaticly from English) > Italian: Monaco > Turkish: Munih (umlaut dots above the u and no dot on the i) > Czech: Mnichow (Most slavic languages variy here only the > spelling) Hungarian .... And a lot more I don't remember at the moment. Polish: Monachium (I think; 'ch' is pronounced just as an 'h', otherwise it's pronounced just as it's spelled) Dan - -- dankolb@ox.compsoc.net - --I reserve the right to be completely wrong about any comments or opinions expressed; don't trust everything you read above-- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 6.5.8 iQA/AwUBPDoTDpdDUnce+EgsEQKo3gCgxtPSa63W7/4Zpg36YO55N8t7wlkAn3+R vWdPa3TFVFK6s/tK4AZBE9HF =smcv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jan 7 08:53:18 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: OT: Time-Canada posts Apple early Message-ID: <02Jan7.110915est.119230@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> At around midnight last night, Time-Canada posted a story, dated Jan. 14, on their website giving a look at the new Apple product line, a day before the products were to be announced! A few hours later the story was pulled, but not before people caught sight of it, and in one case, made a PDF of it. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From sipke at wxs.nl Mon Jan 7 09:00:59 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: KAYPRO 286 References: <20020106232143.2C56820FF0@eomer.vianetworks.nl> Message-ID: <002e01c1978c$1e3e4ea0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> I'd say you got the CPU-board of a system that normally has a pasive ISA-backplane ...... I've seen these in XT systems but not yet in a 286 issue (Headstart comes to mind) but given that Kaypro generally made luggable systems a deviating formfactor could be expected. I would not put it into a normal mobo's ISA slot because if it is intended for a pasive backplane lot's of things could go wrong ..................... The 4way connector with 2 middle leads cut out sounds like the speaker-connector. Sipke de Wal ---------------------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx ---------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Kees Stravers To: Cc: Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 12:18 AM Subject: KAYPRO 286 > > > > Hi, > I got a question on a Kaypro computer that I couldn't answer, never > having seen one of these. But one of you sure knows. > > > Leo Jormanainen wrote: > >I have what appears to be a KAYPRO 286 motherboard on a full length 16bit > >ISA card. > >The CPU is a N80L286-12/S, 815DH31 AMD (M) INTEL 1982. > >It has two AMD Bios's marked 81-1748 & 49, 1988 KAYPRO. > >Facing the chip side, on the left are 8 memory slots. At the left top are a > >9 pin connector > >and beside it is a 4 pin connector with the center two clipped.. On the > >right top it has a 4 > >pin connector with one connector clipped. There is a red (reset)?? button > >on the end plate. > >It plugs into a standard full length ISA slot. > >Question, What do I have and what are the connectors for? I'd love to see > >this work! > >Can I plug this into a empty motherboard and power it up, first I need to > >know how the > >connectors are hooked up. From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jan 7 08:25:18 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: KAYPRO 286 In-Reply-To: <002e01c1978c$1e3e4ea0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> References: <20020106232143.2C56820FF0@eomer.vianetworks.nl> <002e01c1978c$1e3e4ea0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <02Jan7.104111est.119163@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >I'd say you got the CPU-board of a system that normally >has a pasive ISA-backplane ...... > >I've seen these in XT systems but not yet in a 286 issue >(Headstart comes to mind) but given that Kaypro generally >made luggable systems a deviating formfactor could be >expected. The Zenith Z-248 used a passive backplane with the 80286, memory and all ports on cards. A 3rd party later released upgrade CPU boards to take it to an 80386SX-16, with all RAM on the CPU card, utilizing the existing backplane. The RAM and CPU slots were not standard ISA. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From kentborg at borg.org Mon Jan 7 09:39:57 2002 From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: Lithium/Lithium-ion batteries In-Reply-To: ; from tothwolf@concentric.net on Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 06:12:03PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20020107103957.E26410@borg.org> Lithium cells are also better at really low temperatures. And they have a very nice shelf-life. Which makes them possibly approriate for an outdoor electronic thermometer that takes very little power if you live in, say, Minnesota in the winter. -kb, the Kent who used to live in Minnesota. From kentborg at borg.org Mon Jan 7 09:46:35 2002 From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: Lithium/Lithium-ion batteries In-Reply-To: <3C375BB7.8E7DAC62@tiac.net>; from bshannon@tiac.net on Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 03:01:59PM -0500 References: <3C375BB7.8E7DAC62@tiac.net> Message-ID: <20020107104635.F26410@borg.org> On Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 03:01:59PM -0500, Bob Shannon wrote: > Recharging lithium ion batteries in laptops is a very complex operation, and > a somewhat dangerous one as well. A conventional 18650 LiIon battery cell > has a substancial explosive yield, if mistreated! Which is why LiIon cells are *so* hard to come by in the raw. Recently I wanted to replace the tired battery pack in my old Sony PC7 camcorder. The problem was that it is an obscure battery these days. My solution was to buy a commodity camcorder battery (Polaroid branded), ignore the "do not open" warnings, and substitute the working innards for the tired ones in the casing that fits my camera. I do *not* recommend doing this yourself. It was key that the batteries (and in this case charging electronics attached to them) matched between the two camera designs. Had I done this wrong I could have burned myself, lost an eye, etc. -kb, the Kent whose camcorder is usable again. From OMikeEdwardsO at aol.com Mon Jan 7 09:42:14 2002 From: OMikeEdwardsO at aol.com (OMikeEdwardsO@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: "The Home Computer Course" published by Orbis, 1983 Message-ID: <135.760e405.296b1bd6@aol.com> Hello, I have the complete set (i think) in two grey binders. Does anybody know if it is of any value? Is it collectable? Thanks, Mike Edwards From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jan 7 10:02:38 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E0A8@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > the right punctuation. Or anything like that. Or starting and ending sentences with "Or." I had to say that. :) It reminds me of the legendary German tendency to say "Also!" a lot. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jan 7 11:03:12 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E0A8@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <003001c1979d$30f97900$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You're suffering from a misconception popular among immigrants from Germany and elsewhere, assuming that words spelled and even pronounced similarly actually mean the same. My father often fell into that trap. For years he made such mistakes, often committing gross syntax errors attributable to his belief that words that were spelled and pronouced similarly meant the same thing. The example that comes to mind regarding this word is the title, "Also Sprach Zarathustra," which translates to, "Thus Spake Zarathustra." I'm sure there are better examples, though. The common usages of this word do suggest it means "thus" or "consequently" or some such, rather than "as well" or "additionally." Now, don't ask me to explain why it's so ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Smith" To: Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 9:02 AM Subject: RE: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > > > the right punctuation. Or anything like that. > > Or starting and ending sentences with "Or." > > I had to say that. :) It reminds me of the legendary German tendency to say "Also!" a lot. > > Regards, > > Chris > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > > From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Jan 7 11:15:30 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment Message-ID: They're called "false cognates." My favorite one in Spanish is "embarazada," which would make you very embarrassed if you use it to mean "embarrassed" (as it means "pregnant.") There's the story of a female exchange student who told her host family "Tengo hombre" ("I have a man") when she meant to say "Tengo hambre" ("I'm hungry"). When informed of her error, she blushed and said "Estoy embarasada!", which only compounded her chagrin. (She said "I'm pregnant" instead of "I'm embarrassed.") :-) -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 11:03 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment You're suffering from a misconception popular among immigrants from Germany and elsewhere, assuming that words spelled and even pronounced similarly actually mean the same. From jhfine at idirect.com Mon Jan 7 10:11:23 2002 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: PDP-11 memory question References: Message-ID: <3C39C8AB.FD12EB4D@idirect.com> >Tom Leffingwell wrote: > >On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Many of the QBus processors have a set of terminators on the CPU card, and > > the QBus spec allows for the use of short bus length with light loads and > > no extra terminators. The definitions of "short" and "light" are subject > > to variation at short notice :-) > I guess this explains why my system has no BDV11 board in it. Although it > doesn't completely work either. Jerome Fine replies: I may have had a compatible set of boards for the system when I ran a VT103 with the same 4 * 4 backplane - upgraded as I mentioned to 22-bits for the addresses so that more than 256 KBytes could be used. What I did forget to mention again was that an RD51 drive was placed under the tube inside the VT103 and run on the same internal power supply. > > This sounds familiar. And to be honest, if you are running anything other > > than RT11SJ, you probably have a lot more than 28KW of memory anyway, so > > the saving is minimal. My advice would be not to bother trying to squeeze > > another 2KW out of the system. > I'm running RT11XM, and it doesn't seem like I need an extra 2KW. If I remember correctly, when the MMU is activated in an 11/23, the IOPAGE size defaults to 4 KWords or 8192 Bytes. So with RT11XM, the 2KW IOPAGE is not possible. Do you know if the application programs are using extended memory? If so, they gain much more than they loose, especially if they IOPAGE is not required - and even more so if they can use more than one window. As I stated in another post, RT11XM allows the user to request all the addresses from 20000 to 177776 (56 KBytes) to be set up in extended memory while still keeping PAR0 in the normal physical space from 00000 to 17776. This restriction is essential when an ISR (Interrupt Service Routine) is required. Otherwise, if the program uses memory in the normal manner (MACRO.SAV is a good example), the use of VBGEXE automatically sets the program up COMPLETELY in extended memory and makes all 64 KBytes available for code and especially data or tables. And providing sufficient additional extended memory is available, more extended memory can still be used as well - although the two are rarely combined since once a program starts to use extended memory, it usually does everything for itself. Note that VBGEXE probably can't be used in RT11XM when the program uses VIRTUAL arrays since I seem to remember that one of the upper PARs is required. So there are some limitations. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From tom at sba.miami.edu Mon Jan 7 17:30:09 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: PDP-11 memory question In-Reply-To: <3C39C8AB.FD12EB4D@idirect.com> Message-ID: I'm sure whether it does or not, although I do sort of remember the limited documentation implying it, but looking back through it can't find it. On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Jerome Fine wrote: > Do you know if the application programs are using extended memory? > If so, they gain much more than they loose, especially if they IOPAGE is > not required - and even more so if they can use more than one window. > As I stated in another post, RT11XM allows the user to request all the addresses > from 20000 to 177776 (56 KBytes) to be set up in extended memory > while still keeping PAR0 in the normal physical space from 00000 to 17776. > This restriction is essential when an ISR (Interrupt Service Routine) is > required. Otherwise, if the program uses memory in the normal manner > (MACRO.SAV is a good example), the use of VBGEXE automatically > sets the program up COMPLETELY in extended memory and makes > all 64 KBytes available for code and especially data or tables. And > providing sufficient additional extended memory is available, more extended > memory can still be used as well - although the two are rarely combined since > once a program starts to use extended memory, it usually does everything > for itself. > > Note that VBGEXE probably can't be used in RT11XM when the program > uses VIRTUAL arrays since I seem to remember that one of the upper PARs > is required. So there are some limitations. > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Jan 7 10:14:58 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: Mini-Mini computer scans References: <3C3886ED.3FA0F487@attbi.com> <3C394EFA.5080209@aconit.org> Message-ID: <3C39C982.833A1C58@jetnet.ab.ca> Hans B Pufal wrote: > > Thanks to Doug for saving these and making them available. > > To find the scans see www.aconit.org/minimini/ > > Doug, please let me know if I mangled you email too badly. > > Regards, > > -- hbp Having download the scans ( overnight ) I have found that jpeg or any picture file is just too big for viewing or more important printing. PDF is the best way to send files. One option is print them from the scanner as postscript files then use ps2pdf to convert them to pdf. ps2pdf is part of ghostscript I think. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From hansp at aconit.org Mon Jan 7 11:05:14 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: Mini-Mini computer scans References: <3C3886ED.3FA0F487@attbi.com> <3C394EFA.5080209@aconit.org> <3C39C982.833A1C58@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3C39D54A.80600@aconit.org> Ben Franchuk wrote: > Hans B Pufal wrote: >>Thanks to Doug for saving these and making them available. >>To find the scans see www.aconit.org/minimini/ >>Doug, please let me know if I mangled you email too badly. > Having download the scans ( overnight ) I have found that jpeg > or any picture file is just too big for viewing or more important > printing. PDF is the best way to send files. One option is print them > from the scanner as postscript files then use ps2pdf to convert them > to pdf. ps2pdf is part of ghostscript I think. I used PaintShop Pro to print. Clumsy but it works. I will see what I can do about getting a PDF version up -- hbp From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 7 12:41:49 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: Mini-Mini computer scans In-Reply-To: <3C39C982.833A1C58@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > Having download the scans ( overnight ) I have found that jpeg or any > picture file is just too big for viewing or more important printing. > PDF is the best way to send files. One option is print them from the Oh bother. Not this topic again. Do you truly believe that PDF files are smaller than JPEG? That's funny. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Jan 7 12:29:51 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: Mini-Mini computer scans References: Message-ID: <3C39E91F.B4166AC7@jetnet.ab.ca> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > Having download the scans ( overnight ) I have found that jpeg or any > > picture file is just too big for viewing or more important printing. > > PDF is the best way to send files. One option is print them from the > > Oh bother. Not this topic again. > > Do you truly believe that PDF files are smaller than JPEG? > > That's funny. No. BUT viewing and printing are important. If you can't use the information it is useless. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From hansp at aconit.org Mon Jan 7 16:09:28 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: Mini-Mini computer scans References: Message-ID: <3C3A1C98.8040207@aconit.org> On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: >Having download the scans ( overnight ) I have found that jpeg or any >picture file is just too big for viewing or more important printing. >PDF is the best way to send files. One option is print them from the OK, for all you pdofiles out thee, I have put up a 1.5Mb PDF of the 6 pages. Interestingly the pdf conversion of the 6 .png files comes out smaller that the zip of the same files. Not sure why but there it is! -- hans From west at tseinc.com Mon Jan 7 16:51:13 2002 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: Mini-Mini computer scans References: <3C3A1C98.8040207@aconit.org> Message-ID: <007e01c197cd$d01aed40$0101a8c0@jay> I am also hosting the mini-mini computer scans at www.classiccmp.org/mini so could you tell me where the pdf versions are so I can make them available there too? Thanks! Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans B Pufal" To: Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 4:09 PM Subject: Re: Mini-Mini computer scans > On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > >Having download the scans ( overnight ) I have found that jpeg or any > >picture file is just too big for viewing or more important printing. > >PDF is the best way to send files. One option is print them from the > > > OK, for all you pdofiles out thee, I have put up a 1.5Mb PDF of the 6 > pages. Interestingly the pdf conversion of the 6 .png files comes out > smaller that the zip of the same files. Not sure why but there it is! > > -- hans > > > > From hansp at aconit.org Mon Jan 7 23:53:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: Mini-Mini computer scans References: <3C3A1C98.8040207@aconit.org> <007e01c197cd$d01aed40$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <3C3A893C.2040803@aconit.org> Jay West wrote: > I am also hosting the mini-mini computer scans at www.classiccmp.org/mini so > could you tell me where the pdf versions are so I can make them available > there too? www.aconit.org/minimini at the bottom of the page there is a link to the pdf file. Its url is www.aconit.org/minimini/mini.pdf -- hans From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jan 7 10:18:59 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E0AA@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Doc Shipley [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > cable with a (Doc ducks & prepares to rub) 36-pin Centronics > connector, > plus eyelet ground, on one end and a female card-edge connector on the > other. The shrouds are steel, squared, and embossed "TANDY" on both > ends. While I've never seen one, I'm guessing it's a Tandy printer > cable. Doc, this may be for a Tandy 1000. I have one in the basement which I seem to remember has a card-edge parallel port. I haven't counted the contacts, but I seem to remember the "port" is male (IE It's got the edge, the cable would have to clip on to it.) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From rhblakeman at kih.net Mon Jan 7 22:35:03 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Actually IDC or "insulation displacement is not crimp on always - punch block points on telephone blocks are IDC, as are many RJ45 blocks and Schotclocks - it simply means any connection that does not need to be stripped prior to making or attaching - many crimps need to be bare wire first. They displace the insulation upon installation to make the connection. There are screw terminals in many telephone network interface boxes now that are made with a sharp ridge that when you screw them down they cut through the insulation but too hard cuts the wire as well. Most insul displ contact pooints are best done with solid wire although many ribbon cable IDC's are the guiding type that cut into the insulation on stranded wires of the ribbon cable. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tothwolf Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 2:53 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Strange and Possibly Wonderful Cable On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > Model 2 and 100 used a dual row header, and of course, the PC clones used > > > an "RS-232 connector" :-) > > Right, the model 2 typically used a ribbon cable with IDC connectors. I > > have one of these with its DWP printer out in storage :) > > Not to be picky (well, OK, I do tend to be :-), "IDC" stands/stood for > "Insulation Displacement Conector", which meant virtually ANY crimp-on > connector, INCLUDING the card edge connector on drive cables for 5.25, and > the computer end of model 1,3,4 printer cables when they used ribbon > cable. I know that ;) Both connectors on that cable are IDC connectors. > Since the "centronics" connector (Amphenol Blue Ribbon 36 > pin) wasn't very available in IDC, those cables were kinda hoky, with > either a non ribbon "centronics" soldered to ribbon cable, or a card edge > crimped onto spread out non-ribbon cable. Well, my model 2 printer cable uses one of these, as does quite a number of my Apple II machines. I have tons of brand new 36 pin connectors in a box somewhere that I got as part of a bulk deal. They seem to be very common for printer cables for Tandy and Apply computers made around 1983-1988. (I don't remember if the box I have is full of male or female 36 pin connectors, however.) > The one model 2 cable that I remember using (20 yrs ago) did NOT have IDC > connector. It was a round cable (I don't know whether it was shielded), > with a 20 pin dual row header sloppily put onto the end. Well, I'm speaking based on the one I currently own, which certainly does have IDC connectors on each end of the ribbon cable. -Toth From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jan 7 10:43:51 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: Sequent Symmetry S2000-450 Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E0AC@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Hi Sergio, Sequent was/is relatively stingy with information. They are now owned by IBM, who wouldn't even talk to me about my old machine. That said, the Symmetry series may be the closest thing to a real parallel computer that was ever done with Intel CPUs. They're very cool machines. I don't know the exact models you're seeing. Mine is a Symmetry S81, which accepts up to 30 386/16Mhz CPUs and accompanying Weitek co-processors. It is in a coke-machine sized cabinet, and impresses people even without the CPU cards ;) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' -----Original Message----- From: SP [mailto:spedraja@ono.com] It's possible I could obtain one Sequent Symmetry S2000-450 in a relatively short place. A similar system can be viewed in this eBay address: http://cgi.ebay.de/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1311505028&ed=1009557004 The system comes complete, with software, hardware and documentation. It need three pallets to be transported. There is another opportunity to get one Sequent Symmetry S5000 that uses 4 Pentium processors and 1 Gb of memory, but this is in private negotiation. Do Somebody has information about these systems ? They appears to use Four processors 486, a Numa architecture to share memory, and one version of Unix named Dynix. Is there some porting of the Gnu utilities to it ? From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Jan 7 13:26:27 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: Sequent Symmetry S2000-450 In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E0AC@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>; from csmith@amdocs.com on Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 17:43:51 CET References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E0AC@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <20020107202627.A14482@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.01.07 17:43 Christopher Smith wrote: > They're very cool machines. Yes. They are top end enterprise server systems and worth to be salvaged. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From at258 at osfn.org Mon Jan 7 13:32:47 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: Sequent Symmetry S2000-450 In-Reply-To: <20020107202627.A14482@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: I think we've been offered one. On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On 2002.01.07 17:43 Christopher Smith wrote: > > > They're very cool machines. > Yes. They are top end enterprise server systems and worth to be > salvaged. > -- > > > > tschüß, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From spedraja at ono.com Mon Jan 7 14:09:30 2002 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: Sequent Symmetry S2000-450 Message-ID: <001201c197b7$375c74e0$0101a8c0@gw.cavorita.net> Hi, Christopher. Mine is one Sequent Symmetry 2000 with four 486 processors and 256 Mb of memory. I comes with one extension box with over 10 Gb of SCSI disks. It uses Dynix like OS. I'm in treats to get one Sequent Symmetry 5000, with 4 Pentium processors, 1Gb of memory and 10 Gb of disk. Both systems can be take with OS, Tapes, Documentation and so. The best of all os the possibility to get another one Sequent 5000 same than the other but... with one 65 Gb storage Extension box of 180 cm high. Good find if reliable. Don't think so ? Greetings Sergio -----Mensaje original----- De: Christopher Smith Para: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Fecha: lunes, 07 de enero de 2002 17:58 Asunto: RE: Sequent Symmetry S2000-450 >Hi Sergio, > >Sequent was/is relatively stingy with information. They are now owned by IBM, who wouldn't even talk to me about my old machine. > >That said, the Symmetry series may be the closest thing to a real parallel computer that was ever done with Intel CPUs. They're very cool machines. I don't know the exact models you're seeing. Mine is a Symmetry S81, which accepts up to 30 386/16Mhz CPUs and accompanying Weitek co-processors. It is in a coke-machine sized cabinet, and impresses people even without the CPU cards ;) > >Regards, > >Chris > >Christopher Smith, Perl Developer >Amdocs - Champaign, IL > >/usr/bin/perl -e ' >print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); >' > >-----Original Message----- >From: SP [mailto:spedraja@ono.com] > > >It's possible I could obtain one Sequent Symmetry S2000-450 >in a relatively short place. A similar system can be viewed in >this eBay address: > >http://cgi.ebay.de/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1311505028&ed=1009557 004 > >The system comes complete, with software, hardware and documentation. >It need three pallets to be transported. > >There is another opportunity to get one Sequent Symmetry S5000 >that uses 4 Pentium processors and 1 Gb of memory, but this >is in private negotiation. > >Do Somebody has information about these systems ? >They appears to use Four processors 486, a Numa architecture >to share memory, and one version of Unix named Dynix. > >Is there some porting of the Gnu utilities to it ? From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jan 7 15:07:48 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:19 2005 Subject: Sequent Symmetry S2000-450 Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E0B3@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: SP [mailto:spedraja@ono.com] > Hi, Christopher. Mine is one Sequent Symmetry 2000 > with four 486 processors and 256 Mb of memory. > I comes with one extension box with over 10 Gb of > SCSI disks. It uses Dynix like OS. I believe all Sequent machines use Dynix. It's all a question of which version you need. I suppose some of them will run windows nt too, but why waste a perfectly good computer? > I'm in treats to get one Sequent Symmetry 5000, with > 4 Pentium processors, 1Gb of memory and 10 Gb > of disk. I'd like to see how a Sequent that new will handle, say, 16 or 32 cpus. They may very well be capable of it. > The best of all os the possibility to get another one Sequent 5000 > same than the other but... with one 65 Gb storage Extension box > of 180 cm high. > Good find if reliable. Don't think so ? Certainly, and I've never heard that they are unreliable. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From ken at seefried.com Mon Jan 7 22:12:37 2002 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: Sequent Symmetry S2000-450 In-Reply-To: <200201072158.g07Lw3Q17985@ns2.ezwind.net> References: <200201072158.g07Lw3Q17985@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <20020108041237.20944.qmail@mail.seefried.com> FWIW...while the Sequent Symmetry ran x86 chips, the earlier (and kewler) Sequent Balance ran NS32000s. At GaTech, we had both. Ken From mgortych at ntplx.com Mon Jan 7 12:20:45 2002 From: mgortych at ntplx.com (Mike Gortych) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: More HP2000 trivia Message-ID: <000601c197a8$0707b4d0$0314a8c0@jupiter2> Ok, here's another one....what did you have to do to direct output from your terminal to the system line printer? Also...where would be a good place to look to get an old ASR33 Teletype? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020107/5d69ffac/attachment.html From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Jan 7 12:40:52 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: More HP2000 trivia In-Reply-To: <000601c197a8$0707b4d0$0314a8c0@jupiter2> Message-ID: <200201071840.MAA29569@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > Ok, here's another one....what did you have to do to direct output from > your terminal to the system line printer? Also...where would be a good > place to look to get an old ASR33 Teletype? ASR33's are available on ebay from time to time. There is one up for bids right now in fact. They're very expensive though. -Lawrence LeMay From kentborg at borg.org Mon Jan 7 08:20:09 2002 From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: Compenents Source? In-Reply-To: <20020104170815.H4395@borg.org>; from kentborg@borg.org on Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 05:08:15PM -0500 References: <20020104170815.H4395@borg.org> Message-ID: <20020107092009.C26410@borg.org> On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 05:08:15PM -0500, I wrote: > Anyone know where I could find a small, cheap, low power, amplified, > battery powered speaker? Back when I would have bought a "telephone > amplifier", but in 2002 I can't immedaitely find such a thing. I posted too soon. So what if Radio Shack's online catalogue didn't seem to have anything useful, it only took about 30-seconds after walking into a real store to spot my solution: A cheap, two-station, wired intercom. The clerk wanted to upgrade me to a wireless intercom. I said I wasn't interested and left it at that. (Saying why I want what I buy at Radio Shack only confuses the staff and gets them telling me that it won't work.) For some reason I also didn't buy the extended warranty on stuff I was about to start cutting into. Go figure. So, after some hacking, I now have ~nearly~ what I wanted: A cheap "speakerphone" for my cellphone. The flaws are, first, that I need to pad the amplifier input because the phone output is too hot for it, and second, that I need a better handheld mic to make the CDMA vocoder as happy as I would like. Yes, it is not a completely handsfree speakerphone, but it allows more than one person to participate in a call, and *really* is fullduplex for whomever is holding the mic. Thanks for your help, -kb, the Kent who has the remote intercom box left over. From mranalog at attbi.com Mon Jan 7 12:55:09 2002 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: CCITT G4 compression in WIN98 Message-ID: <3C39EF0D.13C352EC@attbi.com> I wrote: > And if I still have anyone's attention, does anyone > know where I can find program to do Group 4 fax > compression under Windows 98? Or a program to put > a .PDF wrapper around scanned pages (for the budget > conscious) under Windows 98? Again I'm on digest, so I have not seen any replies to these questions. But I have been searching the web half the night and ......... .....WILL SOMEBODY, PLEASE HIT ME WITH A HAMMER. After years of wanting one, it seems to have been right under my nose and I didn't see it. It turns out that Windows comes with a program that does CCITT Group 3 and 4 compression. OK, no more 15 MB files. --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog Analogrechner, calculateur analogique, calcolatore analogico, analoogrekenaar, komputer analogowy, analog bilgisayar, kampiutere ghiyasi, analoge computer. ========================================= From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Jan 7 12:31:03 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: CCITT G4 compression in WIN98 References: <3C39EF0D.13C352EC@attbi.com> Message-ID: <3C39E967.BA35F694@jetnet.ab.ca> Doug Coward wrote: > It turns out that Windows comes with a program that > does CCITT Group 3 and 4 compression. well what was it! -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From rws at enteract.com Mon Jan 7 13:11:05 2002 From: rws at enteract.com (Richard W. Schauer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > I know I was one of the pioneering memebers. Bill Whitson posted an > advert for the list on various newsgroups, one of them being > alt.folklore.computers, and I e-mailed him to include me on the list. So > I can claim I was at least ONE of the first, and therefore on here longer > than most :) I was too, back when you had to write a little essay to Bill to get in. He told me I was the 6th one to sign up. I think I joined 2 days before the list started, and I heard about it on alt.folklore.computers. I don't have the early messages anymore- darn mailbox limits :-) I would still be at the same address I started with (rws@ais.net) if they hadn't dumped me. Richard Schauer (who still has 3,000 messages from September 1999 I need to read!) From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Jan 7 20:04:07 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: 7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 1 In-Reply-To: References: <3C38C922.14920.FDF711F@localhost> Message-ID: <3C39FF37.9572.149AE53F@localhost> ROTFL. I love it, even if it was costly. Lawrence > On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > Thus sprang forth the Spaminator! The Spaminator is something I threw > > together in about 10 minutes. What the Spaminator does is call the > > offendor's number, wait for the voicemail to answer, dial a digit to cut > > thru the outgoing message, then it starts singing simple tunes by > > playing "spam" in different notes. I recorded a "spam" scale with my > > own voice. Basically I sang "spam" starting from A and going to G. > > > > I created 10 different song files, with simple tunes such as "Mary Had a > > Little Spam", "Twinkle Twinkle Little Spam", "Happy Spamday", "We Shall > > Overcome (the spam)", "Jingle Spam", "Popeye the Sailor Spam", and a few > > others. The Spaminator randomly selects three spam tunes to play for > > each call. It plays the tunes, then hangs up and calls right back up > > again. The Spaminator is currently running, filling up the spammers > > voicemail box with spam tunes. Hopefully, it will fill up the voicemail > > box and they won't be able to receive any other messages. Also, it will > > bring them much anguish as they constantly try to delete these messages > > that don't stop coming. > > I can't remember if I followed up with a status report, but if I remember > correctly, I forgot The Spaminator was running and let it go for a good 6 > hours (costing my company close to maybe $200 in phone charges) until I > checked in on it. When I did, the offender's mailbox was full. A couple > days later when I called the number up, it was disconnected. > > Coincidence? You be the judge. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From donm at cts.com Mon Jan 7 13:57:39 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: Imsai archive? Message-ID: Is there an accessible archive that will relate Imsai serials to manufacturing year, etc? A friend has one of the blank panel boxen that he is thinking of offering up and is looking for some detail of its date of origin. Thanks! - don From bruce at greatbasin.net Mon Jan 7 16:19:51 2002 From: bruce at greatbasin.net (Bruce Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: KDJ11-BF pricing? Message-ID: <200201072219.g07MJpk28736@roo.greatbasin.net> Is $200 a reasonable price for a PDP-11 KDJ11-BF CPU board? -- Bruce Robertson, President/CEO +1-775-348-7299 Great Basin Internet Services, Inc. fax: +1-775-348-9412 http://www.greatbasin.net From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Jan 7 17:17:55 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: KDJ11-BF pricing? In-Reply-To: <200201072219.g07MJpk28736@roo.greatbasin.net> Message-ID: <200201072317.RAA06025@caesar.cs.umn.edu> A good price? no. Would a KDJ11-BB (M8190-AB) work for you? -Lawrence LeMay > Is $200 a reasonable price for a PDP-11 KDJ11-BF CPU board? > > -- > Bruce Robertson, President/CEO +1-775-348-7299 > Great Basin Internet Services, Inc. fax: +1-775-348-9412 > http://www.greatbasin.net > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jan 7 18:12:36 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: KDJ11-BF pricing? In-Reply-To: from "Lawrence LeMay" at Jan 07, 2002 05:17:55 PM Message-ID: <200201080012.g080Cax11015@shell1.aracnet.com> Actually that looks to be a very good price for a 11/83-84 J11 18MHz CPU. Zane > > A good price? no. > > Would a KDJ11-BB (M8190-AB) work for you? > > -Lawrence LeMay > > > Is $200 a reasonable price for a PDP-11 KDJ11-BF CPU board? > > > > -- > > Bruce Robertson, President/CEO +1-775-348-7299 > > Great Basin Internet Services, Inc. fax: +1-775-348-9412 > > http://www.greatbasin.net > > > > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jan 7 19:25:43 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: KDJ11-BF pricing? In-Reply-To: <200201080012.g080Cax11015@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200201080012.g080Cax11015@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >Actually that looks to be a very good price for a 11/83-84 J11 18MHz CPU. Speaking of the J11....what's the clock of the J11 in the Pro380? Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From bruce at greatbasin.net Mon Jan 7 16:32:08 2002 From: bruce at greatbasin.net (Bruce Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 upgrade paths Message-ID: <200201072232.g07MW9Z28787@roo.greatbasin.net> I've found info in the micronotes about upgrading a Micro/PDP-11 to use the KDJ11-A CPU, but I've been unable to find out anything regarding the new versions of this board. In particular, will a KDJ11-BF drop into a Micro/PDP-11 that currently has a KDF11B-BH CPU? The box also has a Clearpoint 1 MB RAM board; any idea of this will work as well? Any help is appreciated! -- Bruce Robertson, President/CEO +1-775-348-7299 Great Basin Internet Services, Inc. fax: +1-775-348-9412 http://www.greatbasin.net From tom at sba.miami.edu Mon Jan 7 17:37:51 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: PDP-11 DRV11-B question In-Reply-To: <10201070135.ZM20497@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: It seems to work. I tried 772410, and it returned 000000. With 772414 it returned 006200. Is there a way to look at the what is being transferred into memory? I'm starting to think that my problem stems the lack of the ADV11-C module that it wants. The program goes into simulation mode if "a hardware port is missing" which I assume to mean one of the interfaces it uses, a DRV11, a DRV11-B, and an ADV11-C. Since I don't need the funtionality provided by the ADV11-C (and the fact that I can't find one), I didn't install it. I suppose it could also be the DRV11, but I assume the address is still at default, because the board doesn't appear to have been modified. Although if you know the default, it would be nice to double check. Thanks, Tom On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > If you know its address, try to access the CSR from ODT. For example, if > the CSR is at 772410 (which is the default) then if you type that address > at the ODT prompt, followed by a '/' (without the quotes), you should see > the contents of the CSR. If there's nothing at that address, trying to > read it will cause a bus timeout, and all you'll get is a question mark and > a new prompt. > > > Also, can anyone point me to a document that gives a good overview > > of the LSI-11 bus, so that I can understand what I'm doing when I change > > these settings (such as base and vector settings)? > > Probably the Microcomputer and Memories Handbook 1982 is your best bet, as > it covers the 11/23, LSI-11 and 11/2, various memory boards (including your > MSV11-D and MSV11-L), and has sections on the processors, architecture, and > so on. You sometimes see them on EBay. I think that was the last (or > 2nd-last) QBus CPU/memory handbook. There are at least one or two earlier > editions that would have the same general infomation, but not the specific > bits about 11/23 and contemporary memory, or 22-bit operation. > > There's a companion volume, PDP-11 Microcomputer Interfaces 1983-84, which > you'd find useful. It has all the information about the BA11-M/N/S > backplanes and many peripherals, including your DRV11-B. > > Apart from that, have you looked at the Micronotes at > http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware/ > ? > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 7 19:07:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: PDP-11 DRV11-B question In-Reply-To: Tom Leffingwell "Re: PDP-11 DRV11-B question" (Jan 7, 18:37) References: Message-ID: <10201080107.ZM21456@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 7, 18:37, Tom Leffingwell wrote: > > It seems to work. I tried 772410, and it returned 000000. With > 772414 it returned 006200. Is there a way to look at the what is being > transferred into memory? If you know how to program it, or have some software to do it, you could clear an area in memory, get it to DMA some data in, and then look at the memory again. > I'm starting to think that my problem stems the lack of the > ADV11-C module that it wants. The program goes into simulation mode if "a > hardware port is missing" which I assume to mean one of the interfaces it > uses, a DRV11, a DRV11-B, and an ADV11-C. Since I don't need the > funtionality provided by the ADV11-C (and the fact that I can't find one), > I didn't install it. That's almost certainly what's wrong. The software probably checks for the presence of a device at the address(es) it expects for the ADV11; that's very easy to do (just set up a trap handler in case it causes a bus timeout, then try to read from the address. If it doesn't cause a trap, the device is there.) The standard adresses for an ADV11 are 170400 for the CSR and 170402 for the Data Buffer Register. The standard addresses for a DRV11 are 167770 for CSR, and 167772 and 167774 for the OUTBUF and INBUF registers. If you haven't got an ADV11, I can think of three options open to you: 1) get an ADV11 2) get a 3rd party equivalent, such as an ADAC card 3) use some other device, set it to the ADV11 addresses, and hope you fool the software -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From tom at sba.miami.edu Mon Jan 7 19:44:47 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: PDP-11 DRV11-B question In-Reply-To: <10201080107.ZM21456@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: Hmmm...I have an LPV11 I borrowed from someone, I'll try setting its address to the ADV11's default and see what happens. Thanks, Tom On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > That's almost certainly what's wrong. The software probably checks for the > presence of a device at the address(es) it expects for the ADV11; that's > very easy to do (just set up a trap handler in case it causes a bus > timeout, then try to read from the address. If it doesn't cause a trap, > the device is there.) > > The standard adresses for an ADV11 are 170400 for the CSR and 170402 for > the Data Buffer Register. The standard addresses for a DRV11 are 167770 > for CSR, and 167772 and 167774 for the OUTBUF and INBUF registers. > > If you haven't got an ADV11, I can think of three options open to you: > > 1) get an ADV11 > 2) get a 3rd party equivalent, such as an ADAC card > 3) use some other device, set it to the ADV11 addresses, and hope you > fool the software > > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jan 7 17:41:47 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk Message-ID: <200201072341.PAA25800@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Today, I received my neat-o thing for the week, an ISA card for LocalTalk, the software, and an Apple LocalTalk Locking Connector Kit for DB-9 (don't beat on me for calling DB-9, that's what the package sez, 'k? :-). Elation rapidly turned to consternation when I realised the connector box doesn't take the PhoneNET wiring, of which I have scads, but rather the annoying Apple four-conductor locking-style cables. Anyone out there have some converter box that will allow me to plug my existing PhoneNET wiring into this? I'd like to get the PC speaking LocalTalk to the apartment LocalTalk segment, and if possible, I'd like to get the Commodore on it also with this (being ignorant of the major differences, the Commodore's SwiftLink has a regular RS-232 9-pin DE-9 on the end ... could the Apple "DB-9" kit plug directly into that?). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- FORTUNE: Don't abandon hope: your Tom Mix decoder ring arrives tomorrow. --- From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jan 7 18:57:16 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: <200201072341.PAA25800@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: >Today, I received my neat-o thing for the week, an ISA card for LocalTalk, >the software, and an Apple LocalTalk Locking Connector Kit for DB-9 (don't >beat on me for calling DB-9, that's what the package sez, 'k? :-). > >Elation rapidly turned to consternation when I realised the connector box >doesn't take the PhoneNET wiring, of which I have scads, but rather the >annoying Apple four-conductor locking-style cables. > >Anyone out there have some converter box that will allow me to plug my >existing PhoneNET wiring into this? I'd like to get the PC speaking LocalTalk You just need an early (mac plus era) Phonenet adapter to replace the LocalTalk adapter. Remind me next time I am going to see you and I will have one. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jan 7 21:57:41 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Jan 7, 2 04:57:16 pm" Message-ID: <200201080357.TAA28378@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >Anyone out there have some converter box that will allow me to plug my > >existing PhoneNET wiring into this? > You just need an early (mac plus era) Phonenet adapter to replace the > LocalTalk adapter. Remind me next time I am going to see you and I will > have one. Somehow, deep within, I knew you stocked these :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but I'm watching the cat litter clump." ------ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 7 20:45:17 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: <200201072341.PAA25800@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <20020108024517.1777.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com> --- Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Today, I received my neat-o thing for the week, an ISA card for > LocalTalk, the software, and an Apple LocalTalk Locking Connector Kit > for DB-9 Which brand of card? Got a picture? Vendor name? > Elation rapidly turned to consternation when I realised the connector box > doesn't take the PhoneNET wiring, of which I have scads, but rather the > annoying Apple four-conductor locking-style cables. But if you have a DE-9 PhoneNET adapter, that should go on your ISA card just fine. Pre-DIN8 Macs had a DE9F for serial. > Anyone out there have some converter box that will allow me to plug my > existing PhoneNET wiring into this? When my mother had a typesetting shop full of older Macs, we went from Apple cable to Farallon PhoneNET (and used the existing yellow-black pair in the walls for it!) One of the items in the box was a silver satin cable with an RJ-11 in one end (wired to the yellow-black pair) and an Apple LocalTalk connector in the other. I do not know what Apple connector pin maps to black and what to yellow, but I think it was that simple. > I'd like to get the PC speaking LocalTalk > to the apartment LocalTalk segment, and if possible, I'd like to get the > Commodore on it also with this (being ignorant of the major differences, > the Commodore's SwiftLink has a regular RS-232 9-pin DE-9 on the end ... > could the Apple "DB-9" kit plug directly into that?). Mac DE9 serial pinout is not the same as the PC-AT serial pinout. In addition, I expect that the chip in your SwiftLink is some flavor of ACIA (6850 and the like) as opposed to a 8250/16550 UART or (what's in a Mac) Z8530. The Z8530 is quite the chip - they appear in Macs, Suns and late-model COMBOARDs (we programmed them to speak HASP, 3780 and SNA). I am fairly certain that AppleTalk/LocalTalk depends on the abilities of the Z8530. While you could probably get another chip to squeeze out an AppleTalk frame, you'd have to cruft up the layer-1 stuff largely from scratch if you didn't use a Z8530 or some descendent. It's why I think even the ISA AppleTalk cards have a Z8530 on them (the one I have does). It makes the software easier to write if the underlying hardware is identical. I do not know of a 6502 implementation of LocalTalk except for the Apple IIgs. I suppose you could build a Z8530 SIO for the C-64, but having written 68K assembler for it, it's not a trivial chip to program. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jan 7 21:55:20 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: <20020108024517.1777.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jan 7, 2 06:45:17 pm" Message-ID: <200201080355.TAA29390@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Today, I received my neat-o thing for the week, an ISA card for > > LocalTalk, the software, and an Apple LocalTalk Locking Connector Kit > > for DB-9 > Which brand of card? Got a picture? Vendor name? Gen-yew-ine Apple LocalTalk "PC Card" M2313/A. > > Elation rapidly turned to consternation when I realised the connector box > > doesn't take the PhoneNET wiring, of which I have scads, but rather the > > annoying Apple four-conductor locking-style cables. > > But if you have a DE-9 PhoneNET adapter, that should go on your ISA > card just fine. Pre-DIN8 Macs had a DE9F for serial. Who would carry those? That would indeed take care of the whole problem. Fry's still has PhoneNET boxes but I don't think they have the DE-9 variety. > Mac DE9 serial pinout is not the same as the PC-AT serial pinout. In > addition, I expect that the chip in your SwiftLink is some flavor of > ACIA (6850 and the like) as opposed to a 8250/16550 UART or (what's in > a Mac) Z8530. The Z8530 is quite the chip - they appear in Macs, Suns > and late-model COMBOARDs (we programmed them to speak HASP, 3780 and SNA). > I am fairly certain that AppleTalk/LocalTalk depends on the abilities > of the Z8530. While you could probably get another chip to squeeze out > an AppleTalk frame, you'd have to cruft up the layer-1 stuff largely > from scratch if you didn't use a Z8530 or some descendent. I knew I'd have to start from scratch, but this makes the project seem bigger than I'd like it to be :-/ The PC's card does indeed have a Z8530 on the board. But, bizarrely, it also has a Rockwell R65C02. Does this give some hope, possibly, of stealing the low-level code the on-board CPU is using to drive the Z8530 if I could read off the EPROMs? The EPROM socket is labelled 2764 (hopefully it's truthful). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws. -- Tacitus --------- From ccraft at springsips.com Mon Jan 7 18:43:12 2002 From: ccraft at springsips.com (Chris Craft) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: End the exasperation! (Was: Re: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02010717431207.01240@ccraft.springsips.com> Hear, hear! -Chris Craft, RetroComputing Nut On Friday 04 January 2002 12:24 pm, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Sellam said that you can't see a nod in e-mail. > > But reading some of this thread, I CAN see a lot of eyes rolling in > exasperated annoyance. From west at tseinc.com Mon Jan 7 18:50:48 2002 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: Manual available - Heathkit ET3400 trainer Message-ID: <00f501c197de$867da680$0101a8c0@jay> Greetings folks; Someone was kind enough to copy a manual for the Heathkit ET3400 microprocessor trainer for me. NOT complaining, but it was single sided copy, and I'm anal so I went and copied it from single sided to dual sided 3 hole paper for myself. As a result, I have a single sided copy left over that is free to anyone that wants it for the cost of mailing. It is not a 100% complete manual, but the pages that are missing were skipped intentionally as they were far from essential. I'm a stickler for that sort of thing and I can assure you the missing pages won't dissapoint you. If someone wants it, speak up or the duplicate will probably go into the trash. Regards, Jay West From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jan 7 21:22:27 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: VTech Laser 50? Message-ID: Does anybody know anything about this thing? The local thrift shop has one that they claim works (but they don't know how to work it), with everything but an AC power supply. It comes with a very broken box, or pieces of it, instruction manual and a Basic tutorial. The sticker on the back says 1985. The console itself is cosmetically perfect. I didn't get it yet, because there is a compartment at the back that appears to take some kind of cartridge. Is that part necessary for use? It also has a narrow male card-edge connector at the back, maybe 18 or 20 pins. What's that? Not surprisingly, there's not a lot of information about it on the web. Mostly Google turns up old posts to classiccmp mailing list.... Doc From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jan 7 21:47:46 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: VTech Laser 50? In-Reply-To: from Doc Shipley at "Jan 7, 2 09:22:27 pm" Message-ID: <200201080347.TAA26782@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Does anybody know anything about this thing? The local thrift shop > has one that they claim works (but they don't know how to work it), with > everything but an AC power supply. It comes with a very broken box, or > pieces of it, instruction manual and a Basic tutorial. The sticker on > the back says 1985. The console itself is cosmetically perfect. Is this a little LCD computer? If so, basically, that's all there is to it. I liken it to being an oversized Tandy Pocket Computer in approximate power and programmability. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The fastest way to fold a map is differently. ------------------------------ From Meatman711 at aol.com Mon Jan 7 22:03:26 2002 From: Meatman711 at aol.com (Meatman711@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: %20RC25s%20for%20parts%2Bmisc Message-ID: I'm interested in the rc-25's that you have listed. I'm located in Klamath Falls, Oregon and am willing to pay freight and shipping costs for them. I have lost a drive head in mine and would like the two that you have for parts. Please give me a call 1-800-289-2093 regarding this matter. Thank you, Jerry From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Mon Jan 7 22:23:40 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: Seeking classiccmp email solution Message-ID: <20020108042547.CEHJ19910.imf11bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Greetings. I would like to use one of my classic machines to handle all of my email. Currently, I'm using a Win95 PC. Because it contains classic gear (Voyetra V-24S 64 port MIDI i/f) as well as brand new stuff (Audiophile 2496 hard disk recorder), it contains a strange mix of DOS, Win 3.1, Win95, and Win98 drivers. This weirdness is the only way to enable *all* of the stuff in this box to work together. After four virus attacks in December alone, I have decided to move my email capability *off* of this box before some virus catches me off guard. It takes about four hours to wipe and reload this system and massage all of the drivers until all the hardware is happy; I would rather avoid this painful task. So -- how hard would it be for me to handle email on a small, classic micro? I'd like to use my Z100 running CP/M-86; second choice is my Kaypro 10 (2.2, of course); third choice is the Z100 under ZDOS. My BellSouth dial-up account does not provide shell accounts, but I see that there are plenty of free providers out there. Is it possible to get my classic machine to first connect with my BellSouth dial-up, then log on to a shell account, and then send mail or retrieve my incoming mail for offline viewing? I'd prefer to cobble together some sort of system using other people's software, but I am a programmer and can write stuff in C or assembler if need be. Please bear in mind, though, that I have no knowledge of the internal workings of TCP/IP, Telnet, POP3, etc., and I don't really want to spend three months learning the protocols and writing and debugging the code -- but I will if I have to. Feedback from the list members concerning this idea would be greatly appreciated. Glen 0/0 From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Jan 7 23:37:08 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: Seeking classiccmp email solution In-Reply-To: <20020108042547.CEHJ19910.imf11bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: Far and away the very best ISP I have ever dealt with in the last eight or so years is panix.com. It isn't free, but it's priced right at where most of the other shell providers (what few there left) offer. Had I known about them early on, I would have saved myself endless hours of frustration, toll calls, and many, many wasted dollars. Give them a call... see how fast you get connected to a human who knows *exactly* what he/she is talking about, and is happy to help you *right then*! They'll spoil ya - no kidding. I'm telnetting in from India right now, using VanDyke's CRTon my laptop. Cheers John From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Mon Jan 7 22:43:12 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: Burroughs & adding machines Message-ID: <20020108053925.HDIU18093.imf07bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: John Lawson > I have (somewhere) a Burroughs internal publication that outlines points > of company history, in there is the article I'm refering to. It is packed > away just now, but in a couple of months I'll have my library out of the > boxes and back on the shelves, Insh'Allah! I'll gladly pay for copies of this material, if it's copyable. > Well, okay, I think we're describing the same symptom from slightly > different viewpoints. My reference specifically mentions machine damage > as a result of improper crank use; it is undoubtedly also the case that > inaccurate results would also devolve from this; and in fact that would be > far more serious a situation, since, in the case of gross mechanical > failure, you at least know to check your results - because your desk is > suddenly littered with oily springs and bent levers... > > crunch sproingggg (turn-of-last-century expletives deleted) Yeah, what good is a calculator if you have to double-check the results? > > No shit, this list is a real shark tank these days when it comes to > > precision in expression ;>) > > > > And I must place myself in that Group; faddish moronic mangling of > English evokes my very strong underlying concern over the precipitous > slide of overall American educational standards, the fact that > ever-more-stupid teachers continue the downward spiral, and the > market-driven grotesque Deification of vulgar pop-culture fueled by > billions of indiscriminate young dollars. Most often I just delete %99 of > the Beavis-and-Butthead stuff I see, but occasionally I simply wish to > raise a little flag in the gathering Storm of Dumb. I'm with you 100 percent. > Now: contrast the above with the fact that, as my years advance (nearly > 50) I find it increasingly more difficult to type without falling into > egregious and repeated errors, mainly right-left handed letter > transposition errors, and spelling errors that go undetected because I > 'see' the word I *meant* to type instead of what actually came off the > keyboard. I am using Pine under a Unix shell, (and have turned off my > main wordprocessor spell checkers) in an effort to force myself to pay > more attention. As well, I don't touch-type, I use four or five fingers > and watch the keys, not the screen. I've tried several time to *learn* > touch-typing; all that generates is smashed keyboards and frustration. My typing skills are about the same as yours, and, to complicate things, my eyes are going, making it much harder to catch errors. Getting old is hell, but it beats the alternative ;>) Glen 0/0 From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 8 01:53:23 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: Mini-Mini computer scans In-Reply-To: <3C39C982.833A1C58@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > Having download the scans ( overnight ) I have found that jpeg > or any picture file is just too big for viewing or more important > printing. PDF is the best way to send files. One option is print them > from the scanner as postscript files then use ps2pdf to convert them > to pdf. ps2pdf is part of ghostscript I think. Actually, these jpegs are great. I wish more scanned documents were made available in this format. Once I have my equipment set back up, I'll set about processing them with OCR software. The author's block printing should OCR well since his handwriting is very good. Once I have them OCR'd I'll work on converting them to postscript. -Toth From GOOI at oce.nl Tue Jan 8 01:59:05 2002 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: 11/53 - DELQA question Message-ID: Thanks everybody for the clear replies. I removed the bus expansion card (for the external box) and when I powered up the system again, it just ran fine. The next step I did was move the RQXD3 to the location where that bus expansion card was and where the RQDX3 was I inserted a DELQA (M7516). I connected the bulkhead cable and mounted a 10Base2 transceiver on the AUI connector. The 10Base2 transceiver has the bare minimum network: just the T-connector with on both sides 50 Ohms terminators. The system still boots and runs fine, but I expected to see the XE: (?) device listed with the $SHOW DEVICES command. (The system runs Micro/RSX 3.1). Current config: slot 1 A/B-C/D : M7554-02 KDJ11, 15 MHz, 1.5 Mb slot 2 A/B : M3106 4 line EIA MUX slot 3 A/B : M7546 TQK50 slot 4 A/B : M7516 DELQA C/D : M7555 RQDX3 all other slots are empty. Must the system with the new DELQA interface be sys/generated? Am I doing something wrong? TIA - Henk. From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Jan 8 02:04:17 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: Data General One Model 2 PSUs References: <3C3A1C98.8040207@aconit.org> <007e01c197cd$d01aed40$0101a8c0@jay> <3C3A893C.2040803@aconit.org> Message-ID: <002101c1981b$147c8b90$0300a8c0@geoff> Have obtained a couple of these complete and supposedly in working order, with internal HDD and 720k FDD. But no power supplies. A look at the battery shows 2 + and 2 - terminals (but no voltage markings) suggesting they might be dual voltage (5v &12V?) and the plug where the psu connects to the machine is also 3 pin (though on one machine one pin is blanked off) The battery is listed by suppliers as being 12v but am not taking any chances. Anyone able to give me a pinout (so i don't have to dismember them) and the voltage(s) ( so I don't blow them up) for the supplies so I can check these out? I'm thinking an AT psu with the right connector would probably do nicely. Cheers Geoff In Oz From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 7 15:56:43 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: Astronautics ZS-1 In-Reply-To: <3C39ECAE.83B8B865@tds.net> Message-ID: > If you need more information on what these machines are, or are capable > of, I suggest searching Google. If you have any specific questions, > please feel free to e-mail me. What kind of window are we dealing with? A week? A month? Quite interested, by the way. I think I know peole that worked at Astronautics. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 7 20:58:48 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: Astronautics ZS-1 In-Reply-To: <20020107225055.KGNF27302.chruser@[204.246.1.41]> Message-ID: > I think I need a commitment this week or next at the latest. Wow, not much time. > There were a bunch of them. When I started here in 1989, there were over > 150 people in this facility. The engineering school I went to sent people to Astronautics. It was right around 1989. > Are you in the Madison area? Do you want to come take a look at what we > are dealing with? I am in New York, actually, but frequently travel to Chicago, mostly to haul big things from my father's house. Can you take a picture of one of these machines? Also, do the three racks (?) come apart to make a more manageable load? William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From auringer at tds.net Mon Jan 7 12:45:02 2002 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: Astronautics ZS-1 Message-ID: <3C39ECAE.83B8B865@tds.net> Howdy, Is there anyone here that would be interested in rescuing an Astronautics ZS-1, or maybe a couple? I am currently the Systems Admin for the Astronautics Technology Center in Madison Wisconsin. Our facility has been sold and our staff may, or may not, be relocated. Either way, the plan is to scrap the several ZS-1 mini-supercompters that we designed and built here. If I can find someone who has the resources to pick up these machines, I may be able to persuade our management to OK it. Unfortunately, the time window for doing this is very limited. Our headquarters wants to come dismantle these machines ASAP. These machines are are large, they require a lot of power, and will _NOT_ be supported in any way by this company. Each machine is a tall double-wide rack with a third rack for a Storagetek 9-track tape drive. If you need more information on what these machines are, or are capable of, I suggest searching Google. If you have any specific questions, please feel free to e-mail me. Later, Jon Jon Auringer auringer@tds.net From auringer at tds.net Mon Jan 7 16:50:55 2002 From: auringer at tds.net (auringer@tds.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: Astronautics ZS-1 Message-ID: <20020107225055.KGNF27302.chruser@[204.246.1.41]> Hi William, > What kind of window are we dealing with? A week? A month? I think I need a commitment this week or next at the latest. Our HQ is in a hurry to get this stuff taken care of. I found out this morning that they are sending maintenance people here tomorrow (tuesday) to pick some stuff up. I am in the process of stripping three "spare" ZS machines so they can take the chassis and power supplies. I know these three would never be viable as complete systems, so I want to get all the usable stuff out of them. > Quite interested, by the way. I think I know people that worked at > Astronautics. There were a bunch of them. When I started here in 1989, there were over 150 people in this facility. Two weeks after I started they shut down the computer group and most everyone left for new challenges. :( Are you in the Madison area? Do you want to come take a look at what we are dealing with? > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org Later, Jon Jon Auringer auringer@tds.net From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 8 02:47:47 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: VAX manuals Message-ID: No, it's not yet another Gray wall... I have 2 packages of VMS installation docs, "VMS Installation and Operations VAXstation 8000" Order Number AA-LB33A-TE "VMS Installation and Operations VAX 6000 Series" Order Number AA-LB36B-TE Both are 5-ring insert sets, maybe 20-30 sheets + tabbed divider & end divider, and both are "new", in shrinkwrap. They were lurking in my Gray Wall. Anybody want them? Doc From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Tue Jan 8 03:33:53 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: Spectravideo SV328 II (was:RE: VTech Laser 50?) Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0219E9@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> Hi folks, Talking about missing AC PSUs does anyone know the power requirements of the SV328? I got one recently and it's missing it's power.....the socket on the machine is identical to the TI99/4A, but the TI99 PSU kicks out something like 8V and 16V instead of the usual 5 and 12. Anyone got one handy? cheers -- Adrian Graham, Corporate Microsystems Ltd e: adrian.graham@corporatemicrosystems.com w: www.corporatemicrosystems.com w2: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Online Computer Museum) > -----Original Message----- > From: Cameron Kaiser [mailto:spectre@stockholm.ptloma.edu] > Sent: 08 January 2002 03:48 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: VTech Laser 50? > > > > Does anybody know anything about this thing? The local > thrift shop > > has one that they claim works (but they don't know how to > work it), with > > everything but an AC power supply. It comes with a very > broken box, or > > pieces of it, instruction manual and a Basic tutorial. The > sticker on > > the back says 1985. The console itself is cosmetically perfect. > > Is this a little LCD computer? If so, basically, that's all > there is to it. > I liken it to being an oversized Tandy Pocket Computer in approximate > power and programmability. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: > http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * > ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- The fastest way to fold a map is differently. > ------------------------------ > From red at bears.org Tue Jan 8 04:38:38 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: Spectravideo SV328 II (was:RE: VTech Laser 50?) In-Reply-To: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0219E9@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Adrian Graham wrote: > Talking about missing AC PSUs does anyone know the power requirements of the > SV328? I got one recently and it's missing it's power.....the socket on the > machine is identical to the TI99/4A, but the TI99 PSU kicks out something > like 8V and 16V instead of the usual 5 and 12. Here, the front of my power supply reads: SPECTRAVIDEO POWER SUPPLY MODEL NO: 318 - 202 EXPANDER SV-601 USE ONLY INPUT: 120VAC 60 Hz 65W max OUTPUT: PINS 1,2 14V 2A 3,4 6V 3A The output plug is labeled thusly: ----------- 1 -> | * * | <- 2 3 -> | * * | <- 4 ----------- I would guess, with outputs rated at 6 and 14 volts, that this is an unregulated supply. Here's some stuff from the user's guide: * the power supply module pictured with the system unit is identical in appearance to the one I have, though is listed as model SV201. My power supply is, according to its label, for use only with the SV601 7-slot expander. I don't own an expander. I don't seem to own an SV201. * The pinout reference at the back of the manual is limited to I/O ports and does not list anything for the power input. * IT IS UNKNOWN TO ME AT THIS POINT WHETHER THE POWER SUPPLY I HAVE WILL OPERATE AN SV328. This is all the information I have at my disposal. If nobody else is able to provide definitive information, perhaps it will prove useful as a starting point for you in your research. ok r. From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Tue Jan 8 05:24:34 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: Spectravideo SV328 II (was:RE: VTech Laser 50?) Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0219EC@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: r. 'bear' stricklin [mailto:red@bears.org] > Sent: 08 January 2002 10:39 > To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' > Subject: Re: Spectravideo SV328 II (was:RE: VTech Laser 50?) > > Here, the front of my power supply reads: > > SPECTRAVIDEO > POWER SUPPLY > MODEL NO: 318 - 202 > EXPANDER SV-601 USE ONLY > > INPUT: 120VAC 60 Hz 65W max > OUTPUT: PINS 1,2 14V 2A > 3,4 6V 3A > > The output plug is labeled thusly: > > ----------- > 1 -> | * * | <- 2 > 3 -> | * * | <- 4 > ----------- > > I would guess, with outputs rated at 6 and 14 volts, that this is an > unregulated supply. That's an excellent starting point; 6 & 14 volts is ringing bells with me, and there are some caps on the motherboard which could be part of a regulating circuit. Pinouts match too, I think. I can make sure tonight. Thanks! -- Adrian Graham, Corporate Microsystems Ltd e: adrian.graham@corporatemicrosystems.com w: www.corporatemicrosystems.com w2: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Online Computer Museum) From quapla at xs4all.nl Tue Jan 8 03:44:06 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: Some pointers needed on a 11/70 References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662D4@exc-reo1> <11147.194.134.214.183.1010002110.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> <10201030019.ZM14991@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C35BEEC.5A050014@xs4all.nl> <10201050159.ZM17916@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C378109.27924F6C@xs4all.nl> <10201060107.ZM18992@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C38B734.A8139727@xs4all.nl> <3C3A26A7.4DB3A12E@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <3C3ABF66.7A80ED3E@xs4all.nl> Pete Turnbull wrote: > > OK. From what you've written there, and a few other places, I assume you > have some manuals and/or printsets? Most of them, but from the MK11 memory box, only the MOS board and both controller boards. > > > That's an unusual address, and it's only 32K bytes (16KW). You said > you > > > had two 64KW boards. What type are they? They probably have switches > Are they M8728-AA or M8728-CA? The latter is only 16KW. The easy way to > tell the difference, if there's no -A or -C beside the number, is that One is a '-AA' version, the other is a '-AC' one, and both are fully populated. > I was, no surprise to anyone, wrong about their having switches -- > showing > my ignorance about the specifics of 11/70's. Most of the things I've > written are gleaned from the meagre information in one or two of the > processor handbooks, or from my (incomplete) collection of microfiche. Well, nobody is perfect :=) > > Anyway, the memory box has switches on the front (and I assume you've > checked those?) but as far as I can see from the 'fiche, the memory card > base addresses depend only on their position in the box. So the two cards > have to be adjacent, and nearest the other cards, I think. Do you agree? There are no switches at the front of the box, unless you mean the control panel which contains the thumbwheel switches and a few other switches? Do you have documentation on the data buffer board? This one does have 2 switchbanks, and all are currently 'open'. Those 2 boards are the only one for which I do not have any docs. > > It looks as though the box might be set to the wrong address -- 400000 > is > 131072 decimal, or 128K -- and is only showing 16KW (32KB) of memory. I > don't know how you set the address of the box, though. I changed the size register on the 8143 to 32K, and it 'disappeared' completely from the system, i.e. no memory address was usable. I then changed 2 switches (W12 & W15 seem to be wrong marked in one of the FE sheets) and is was visible again, and it still was set at 400000... > > It is the 23-233F1 diag rom. > > OK, I've found some data (actually the listing) for that ROM. It's > assembled at 165000 (but it looks like position-independant code, so > that's > possibly not its real address). It ends at 165776, ie 1000 bytes (octal) > later. It is indeed an 11/70 diagnostic ROM for the M9312, probably just > a > later version than the 23-616F1 my other docs refer to. > > The docs say there's no way to enter the diagnostics directly, only by > entering a bootstrap at the "run with diagnostics" address. They suggest > that would be 173006/173206/173406/173606 depending on whether you're > booting from a bootstrap ROM in socket 1, 2, 3 or 4. > > The docs also say that when the 11/70 powers up (or you press a boot switch > attached to TP1 and TP2 on the M9312), it loads the PC from address 773024, > and PSW from 773026. And indeed every boot ROM has a reserved word at that > address for the PC, followed by 000340, which is the usual interrupt mask > to set in the PSW for booting. Every ROM has code (opcode SEC) starting at > 173x04 leading to a BCC BDIAG at 173020. In every boot ROM, that branch > goes to an absolute jump, JMP _at_#DIAG, which in turn leads to a > PC-relative > jump at absolute address 165564, which goes to 165000 (the actual code is > 165564 000167 177210 DIAG: JMP START). > > Why do you think address 777644 is the diagnostics ROM start address? That was a mistake, I did mean 765744, which is spoken about in the documentation. > All the 11/70 tests halt on error (unlike the CPU diagnostics for the > 11/34 > and other processors, which loop on error). The first section tests > assorted instructions that needn't to use memory, the secondary CPU > tests > use the stack (R6 set to 000776). However, the very first instructions > in > the diagnostics code store registers at 000700...000704, and use 000706 > to > hold a flag which tells the code whether it's running on an 11/60 or an > 11/70. If the memory isn't working, this will cause problems later in > the > diagnostics. > > Address 165344 is one of the error halts partway through the secondary > CPU > tests (assuming the diag ROM starts at 165000). What it does is set > SP=776, then does a PC-relative JSR to the address 2 ahead of where it > is. > The code there checks to see if the top of the stack contains the > correct > return address, and should halt at 165326 if it doesn't (it should halt > at > 165320 if the JSR didn't execute). If it does see the correect return > address, it adjusts the stack contents, does an RTS, ending up at > 165342. > At 165342, it pushes a zero and an address on the stack and then tests > RTI. 165344 is the address of the push instruction, and 165350 is the > RTI. > That's folowed by a jump to the next test, which is the memory-sizing > routine. > > So having it loop until you stop it, and then halt at some address > ending > in 344 doesn't make much sense to me. Either you're not starting at a > sensible address, or there's something wrong that is sending it into a > loop. That could be a CPU fault, or maybe (I've not read all the cache > test code) something to do with not having memory between 000700 and > 001000. That sounds more logical to me, but I can only substantiate that when I have the memory being available at address 000000. As a tryout, I'll swap all the other boards in the cpu (I have a complete spare CPU) to see if this has some effect as well. I didn't do this before, as the machine was in operation until about a year ago, so it is likely to assume that this could have worked. I do not know if the MK11 is the original one, or is from another 11/70. I'll let you know tomorrow. Ed -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Kilometerheffing : De overheid '97 TL1000S | weet waar je bent geweest! From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Tue Jan 8 03:49:49 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: Back to board washing for a moment Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0219EA@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> Having read all the threads relating to board washing I've got a question. What are the panel's thoughts on video boards? I'm thinking of flyback transformers and the like......got a PET 8032SK here that I'm picking up on fixing again after a couple of months layoff - it's taken up smoking...... Anyway; it's been turned off since early november time, and since the board has a thick layer of greasy grime all over it I want to give it a wash since I can't see where the smoke's coming from apart from 'close to the front at the right'..... Any help appreciated -- Adrian Graham, Corporate Microsystems Ltd e: adrian.graham@corporatemicrosystems.com w: www.corporatemicrosystems.com w2: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Online Computer Museum) From auringer at tds.net Tue Jan 8 05:42:04 2002 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: Astronautics ZS-1 References: Message-ID: <3C3ADB0C.20F880E8@tds.net> William Donzelli wrote: > > I think I need a commitment this week or next at the latest. > Wow, not much time. No, it isn't. But I just need a real commitment to wanting the hardware so I can negotiate with the company. If I have a commitment, the actual removal could wait until the end of January or early February at the latest. Since my position at the company is not guaranteed, the sooner it gets done the better. I would have offered the equipment sooner, but I have been having trouble getting the company to commit to giving the ZS machines away. Communication between the involved parties has been typically poor. The whole process of shutting down our facility has been very frustrating. > I am in New York, actually, but frequently travel to Chicago, mostly to > haul big things from my father's house. > Can you take a picture of one of these machines? Also, do the three racks > (?) come apart to make a more manageable load? It will take a couple of days for pictures. The two main racks are connected by _extensive_ cabling. I am doubtful that taking the two main racks apart is feasible. One of the main racks seems to be a standard 19" wide, the other main one looks to be about 30" wide. The third rack is a separate 19" wide unit. I was involved in removing a pair of the machines from the UW Madison a couple of years ago. We had four or five people to move the machines using a rented truck with a lift gate. We rolled those machines down the ramp into the basement of our building. Those would be the easiest to move. The other two machines are on a main floor of the building and do not fit in our elevator. These machines would need to be ramped down a wide flight of stairs and out the front doors of our building. More challenging. :) > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 8 06:22:30 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: Back to board washing for a moment In-Reply-To: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0219EA@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Adrian Graham wrote: > Having read all the threads relating to board washing I've got a question. > What are the panel's thoughts on video boards? I'm thinking of flyback > transformers and the like......got a PET 8032SK here that I'm picking up on > fixing again after a couple of months layoff - it's taken up smoking...... > > Anyway; it's been turned off since early november time, and since the board > has a thick layer of greasy grime all over it I want to give it a wash since > I can't see where the smoke's coming from apart from 'close to the front at > the right'..... > > Any help appreciated If the flyback is sealed, it shouldn't be a problem. Most modern flybacks are not 100% sealed, and have a couple of variable resistors on one side. Typically, the flyback is installed after washing when these boards are manufactured. You will often find flux on the pins for these types of parts, since the board will have already been defluxed before the washing. I'm not sure I'd wash such a board with the flyback installed, since they are usually easy to remove, and often their solder joints need to be redone anyway. Often when the flybacks are installed at the factory, the joint is not allowed enough time to heat properly, so the solder does not bond properly to the pin or pad. Over time, these solder joints are prone to failures, which cause lots of intermittent problems in monitors and TVs. Flybacks are also very expensive to replace, and it's often difficult or impossible to find an exact replacement. Make sure you properly discharge the CRT and other caps in the HV section before disconnecting the anode lead from the CRT. You can find some basic service and safety information on the sci.electronics.repair FAQ located here: http://www.repairfaq.org/ -Toth From guerney at bigpond.com Tue Jan 8 06:29:33 2002 From: guerney at bigpond.com (Phil Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: Spectravideo SV328 II (was:RE: VTech Laser 50?) References: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0219E9@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> Message-ID: <001501c19840$211d9400$7937fea9@Guerney> From: "Adrian Graham" Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 7:33 PM Subject: Spectravideo SV328 II (was:RE: VTech Laser 50?) > Talking about missing AC PSUs does anyone know the power requirements of the > SV328? I have a PSU here labelled FOR SV318/328 USE ONLY, so I do not know about the SV328 II. It is labelled Input AC 240V 50Hz 35 W (this is Australia!) Output AC 16V 0.8A Output AC 9V 1.5A I hope this helps. Phil (Brisbane, Australia) From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Jan 7 13:15:17 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:20 2005 Subject: Mini-Mini computer scans References: Message-ID: <3C39F3C5.914E901D@jetnet.ab.ca> Tothwolf wrote: > > On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > Having download the scans ( overnight ) I have found that jpeg > > or any picture file is just too big for viewing or more important > > printing. PDF is the best way to send files. One option is print them > > from the scanner as postscript files then use ps2pdf to convert them > > to pdf. ps2pdf is part of ghostscript I think. > > Actually, these jpegs are great. I wish more scanned documents were made > available in this format. Once I have my equipment set back up, I'll set > about processing them with OCR software. The author's block printing > should OCR well since his handwriting is very good. Once I have them OCR'd > I'll work on converting them to postscript. > > -Toth JPEG is a lossy imaging format. You lose detail with this format. Use something else! -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From foo at siconic.com Tue Jan 8 12:04:24 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: Mini-Mini computer scans In-Reply-To: <3C39E91F.B4166AC7@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > Do you truly believe that PDF files are smaller than JPEG? > > No. BUT viewing and printing are important. If you can't use the > information it is useless. Someone else pointed this out to me, and I'll certainly grant you that. I just wish Adobe would not follow the Microslop mentality and find a way to make their format MUCH SMALLER. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jan 8 12:19:33 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: Mini-Mini computer scans Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225CC0@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > Actually, these jpegs are great. I wish more scanned documents were made > > available in this format. Once I have my equipment set back up, I'll set > > about processing them with OCR software. The author's block printing > > should OCR well since his handwriting is very good. Once I have them OCR'd > > I'll work on converting them to postscript. > > JPEG is a lossy imaging format. You lose detail with this format. > Use something else! In theory, correct... but knowing in advance just exactly *how* and *why* it's lossy, using it for black and white text works just fine. Regards, -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jan 8 06:51:12 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: Data General One Model 2 PSUs Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225CAE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> I repaired one of these back in '88... for an unlit LCD screen and an 8088 processor, this was a very nice laptop. I'll try to contact my former employer, see what he might still have... but ISTR it had a brick supply, negative center... -dq From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jan 8 08:20:54 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: Data General One Model 2 PSUs In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225CAE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> from Douglas Quebbeman at "Jan 8, 2 07:51:12 am" Message-ID: <200201081420.GAA09066@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I repaired one of these back in '88... for an unlit > LCD screen and an 8088 processor, this was a very > nice laptop. > I'll try to contact my former employer, see what > he might still have... but ISTR it had a brick > supply, negative center... I'm not sure if this is the same as the DG One model 2200, but mine has a two-conductor power conductor; output 1 is 6.4V 2.0A; output 2 is 6.4V 3.0A. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Never blame on malice what can be blamed on abject idiocy. ----------------- From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Jan 8 09:22:17 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: Data General One Model 2 PSUs References: <200201081420.GAA09066@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <01d001c19858$43d26350$0300a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 12:50 AM Subject: Re: Data General One Model 2 PSUs > > I repaired one of these back in '88... for an unlit > > LCD screen and an 8088 processor, this was a very > > nice laptop. Yeah for a little dos box, not half bad, especially for the era. > > I'll try to contact my former employer, see what > > he might still have... but ISTR it had a brick > > supply, negative center... > I'm not sure if this is the same as the DG One model 2200, but mine has a > two-conductor power conductor; output 1 is 6.4V 2.0A; output 2 is 6.4V 3.0A. Sounds different. Mine has a 3 conductor male socket on the back. I guess it's possible they are 2 x 6 volt (centre negative?) and the battery is 2 x 6v? Mine are Data General One Model 2T (on the bottom right of the LCD panel) On the data plate underneath Model No. 2504R Serials are 0039555 and 0039675 Cheers Geoff in Oz From auringer at tds.net Tue Jan 8 06:53:17 2002 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available Message-ID: <3C3AEBBD.AA5D731D@tds.net> Hello all, Along with the Astronautics ZS-1 machines I posted about earlier, we have some other equipment available. I have someone interested in one of the 11/780 machines and possible others. As with the ZS-1 machines, the time frame isn't very long. Again, we are closing this facility and the equipment will be scrapped if not rescued. 1 DEC 11/780 (3 wide cabinet) currently up and running 4.2 BSD 3rd cabinet has a Ven-tel plugin modem rack w/~10 modems 1 rack containing 4 Fujitsu Eagle drives (one drive is off-line due to increasing errors) 1 Fujitsu 9-track tape drive in 2 wide cabinet (not quite as tall as the VAX cabinet)(This is a nice auto loading drive, there is a second one available with two drives from a non-VAX system) 1 DEC TE16 9-track tape drive (1 wide cabinet) 1 Fujitsu line printer 1 DECWRITER III printing terminal as console 1 DEC 11/780 (3 wide cabinet) currently down but was running fine when turned off (VMS) 3 DEC RP07 drives (each the size of a washing machine on steroids!) 1 DEC TU78 9-track tape drive 1 Scicards design station (This is a dedicated color graphics terminal used for printed circuit board (PCB) layout) I am told the tube was a little on the fuzzy side. 1 Benson photo plotter (we used this exclusively to print out PCB artwork for checking) 1 Dataproducts line printer 1 DECWRITER III printing terminal as console 3 Valid Systems m68k based Multibus systems. Each system has several dedicated mono graphics cards to drive multiple design stations. Each system is in a half-height rack which contains the Multibus rack, an 8" Fujitsu fixed disk drive and the slot loading 9-track tape drive. I am unsure of the status of these systems. I believe they were running when shut down, but I have doubts about the drives. 6 or more of the Valid Scaldstation design stations. Each includes a table with built-in digitizer and a 19" green monochrome graphics monitor. These systems were used primarily for schematic capture, but ran a full blown UNIX, so I always enjoyed reading news on the "big screen". :) 1 Masscomp m68k based system This system is also Multibus based and resides in a pair of 5' high racks. One rack contains the multibus chassis and a pair of Fujitsu drives. The second rack houses the 9-track tape drive and a third 8" Fujitsu drive. This machine was only lightly used when I signed on in 1989, and shut down shortly thereafter. I have gotten it up and running RTU on its ST-506 boot drive, but haven't managed to get the Fujitsus online. 7 Masscomp MC-500 deskside chassis These are also Multibus based m68k systems. These run the same OS as systems above. They have an internal 5-1/4" floppy and ST-506 fixed drive. There are a bunch of the monochrome graphics tubes that go along with these units. Actually, it appears like each chassis is designed to drive a pair of the graphics terminals. I have one of these boxes that I did a clean install of the RTU OS. The other 6 are in varying states of repair. I think there are enough bits to assemble at least 3 more complete systems. 2 DEC MicroVax II in a 19" There is also a rack mounted chassis with a pair of SMD drives. Each of the MVII has a SMD controller card. Both of the boot drives are dead and I don't have a way to format replacements. I would like to hang on to these if I can manage to get them home without doing myself harm. 1 Tek 4014-1 graphics terminal w/hard copy unit. The terminal works fine, but I haven't had a chance to test the hard copy unit. I would like to hang on to this unit, but moving it is definately a two person and a truck kind of thing. So I may have to let it go. :( ? StorageTek 9-Track drives. 110V operation. How many of these I have depends on the fate of the ZS-1 machines. I have a couple now, and will have several more if the ZS machines are scrapped. Large quantities of documentation. Over a dozen UNIX programmers manuals in metal desktop racks. Complete documentation sets for VMS, gray and orange binders. I have a box with complete unopened docs for a later version (don't remember off-hand which version) of VMS than we had ever installed. Documentation for several revisions of SunOS4. If I were to walk through the building, I could easily double this list. Basically we have just about everything! Thanks for listening, Jon Jon Auringer auringer@tds.net From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jan 8 07:32:41 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available In-Reply-To: <3C3AEBBD.AA5D731D@tds.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020108073157.02154710@pc> I'm about 35 minutes from all this stuff and go to this area once or twice a month... if anyone wants to rescue it. - John From auringer at tds.net Tue Jan 8 07:39:25 2002 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available References: <3C3AEBBD.AA5D731D@tds.net> Message-ID: <3C3AF68D.F3DC00F9@tds.net> Jon Auringer wrote: > > Hello all, > > Along with the Astronautics ZS-1 machines I posted about earlier, we > have some other equipment available. I have someone interested in one of > the 11/780 machines and possible others. As with the ZS-1 machines, the > time frame isn't very long. Again, we are closing this facility and the > equipment will be scrapped if not rescued. I forgot to mention that we have rack upon rack of open reel tapes that are bound for the dumpster if not picked up. Later, Jon Jon Auringer auringer@tds.net From at258 at osfn.org Tue Jan 8 09:02:55 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available In-Reply-To: <3C3AEBBD.AA5D731D@tds.net> Message-ID: Well we might very well be interested in a ZS-1. On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Jon Auringer wrote: > Hello all, > > Along with the Astronautics ZS-1 machines I posted about earlier, we > have some other equipment available. I have someone interested in one of > the 11/780 machines and possible others. As with the ZS-1 machines, the > time frame isn't very long. Again, we are closing this facility and the > equipment will be scrapped if not rescued. > > 1 DEC 11/780 (3 wide cabinet) currently up and running 4.2 BSD > 3rd cabinet has a Ven-tel plugin modem rack w/~10 modems > 1 rack containing 4 Fujitsu Eagle drives (one drive is off-line due > to increasing errors) > 1 Fujitsu 9-track tape drive in 2 wide cabinet (not quite as tall as the > VAX cabinet)(This is a nice auto loading drive, there is a second > one available with two drives from a non-VAXyb system) > 1 DEC TE16 9-track tape drive (1 wide cabinet) > 1 Fujitsu line printer > 1 DECWRITER III printing terminal as console > > 1 DEC 11/780 (3 wide cabinet) currently down but was running fine > when turned off (VMS) > 3 DEC RP07 drives (each the size of a washing machine on steroids!) > 1 DEC TU78 9-track tape drive > 1 Scicards design station (This is a dedicated color graphics > terminal used for printed circuit board (PCB) layout) > I am told the tube was a little on the fuzzy side. > 1 Benson photo plotter (we used this exclusively to print out PCB > artwork for checking) > 1 Dataproducts line printer > 1 DECWRITER III printing terminal as console > > 3 Valid Systems m68k based Multibus systems. Each system has several > dedicated mono graphics cards to drive multiple design stations. > Each system is in a half-height rack which contains the Multibus > rack, an 8" Fujitsu fixed disk drive and the slot loading 9-track > tape drive. I am unsure of the status of these systems. I believe > they were running when shut down, but I have doubts about the drives. > 6 or more of the Valid Scaldstation design stations. Each includes a > table with built-in digitizer and a 19" green monochrome graphics > monitor. These systems were used primarily for schematic capture, > but ran a full blown UNIX, so I always enjoyed reading news on the > "big screen". :) > > 1 Masscomp m68k based system > This system is also Multibus based and resides in a pair of 5' high > racks. One rack contains the multibus chassis and a pair of Fujitsu > drives. The second rack houses the 9-track tape drive and a third > 8" Fujitsu drive. This machine was only lightly used when I signed > on in 1989, and shut down shortly thereafter. I have gotten it up > and running RTU on its ST-506 boot drive, but haven't managed to > get the Fujitsus online. > > 7 Masscomp MC-500 deskside chassis > These are also Multibus based m68k systems. These run the same OS as > systems above. They have an internal 5-1/4" floppy and ST-506 fixed > drive. There are a bunch of the monochrome graphics tubes that go > along with these units. Actually, it appears like each chassis is > designed to drive a pair of the graphics terminals. I have one of > these boxes that I did a clean install of the RTU OS. The other 6 > are in varying states of repair. I think there are enough bits to > assemble at least 3 more complete systems. > > 2 DEC MicroVax II in a 19" > There is also a rack mounted chassis with a pair of SMD drives. > Each of the MVII has a SMD controller card. Both of the boot drives > are dead and I don't have a way to format replacements. I would > like to hang on to these if I can manage to get them home without > doing myself harm. > > 1 Tek 4014-1 graphics terminal w/hard copy unit. The terminal works > fine, but I haven't had a chance to test the hard copy unit. I would > like to hang on to this unit, but moving it is definately a two person > and a truck kind of thing. So I may have to let it go. :( > > ? StorageTek 9-Track drives. 110V operation. How many of these I have > depends on the fate of the ZS-1 machines. I have a couple now, and > will have several more if the ZS machines are scrapped. > > Large quantities of documentation. Over a dozen UNIX programmers > manuals in metal desktop racks. Complete documentation sets for VMS, > gray and orange binders. I have a box with complete unopened > docs for a later version (don't remember off-hand which version) of > VMS than we had ever installed. Documentation for several revisions > of SunOS4. If I were to walk through the building, I could easily > double this list. Basically we have just about everything! > > Thanks for listening, > > Jon > > Jon Auringer > auringer@tds.net > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From jss at subatomix.com Tue Jan 8 09:51:03 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available In-Reply-To: <3C3AEBBD.AA5D731D@tds.net> Message-ID: <20020108094454.M31175-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> It *would* be just my luck to have a great opportunity like this and to *not* have the money left to effect a rescue of some of it. Please excuse me while I go bang my head against the wall. Argh. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From auringer at tds.net Tue Jan 8 09:57:20 2002 From: auringer at tds.net (auringer@tds.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available Message-ID: <20020108155720.FRRI27302.chruser@[204.246.1.41]> > > From: "SP" > Hello, Jon. Where are this equipments located ? > Sergio Pedraja Sorry about that. I had put it in the post about the ZS-1 machines. Everything is in Madison Wisconsin. Far east side of town. Later, Jon Jon Auringer auringer@tds.net From allain at panix.com Tue Jan 8 10:13:42 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available References: <3C3AEBBD.AA5D731D@tds.net> Message-ID: <00a401c1985f$711e22c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> In gereral there are a Lot of nice things here, enough to start off at least two (3?,7?) newcomers with nice collections. If I were close by I would go for a few things. I'm in NY (I gather you are in Madison, WI?) Because of the distance could you put me down for: > 1 uVaxII SMD controller card? Thanks for posting at any rate. John A. From auringer at tds.net Tue Jan 8 10:18:02 2002 From: auringer at tds.net (auringer@tds.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available Message-ID: <20020108161803.GFMB27302.chruser@[204.246.1.41]> > From: "Merle K. Peirce" > Well we might very well be interested in a ZS-1. Do you have some idea of how and when? As I mentioned before, I would need to have a commitment fairly quick to keep the machines intact. Later, Jon Jon Auringer auringer@tds.net From at258 at osfn.org Tue Jan 8 11:11:28 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available In-Reply-To: <20020108161803.GFMB27302.chruser@[204.246.1.41]> Message-ID: Well, I could possibly drive out and return with a truck. Possibly I could haul for Bill Donzelli if he's interested. It is on the way. That would save at least 2 ZS-1's. We could haul more, perhaps. Do you have docs on the ZS's? I am loath to fly, but it might be possible. I need to know if they are availbale to us, and then I could put the trip together. I did a truckload from VA/DC/NY just before Christmas. Probably 2 days out, lay day, load and 2 days back. Or 3. On Tue, 8 Jan 2002 auringer@tds.net wrote: > > From: "Merle K. Peirce" > > > Well we might very well be interested in a ZS-1. > > Do you have some idea of how and when? As I mentioned before, I would need to have a commitment fairly quick to keep the machines intact. > > Later, > Jon > > Jon Auringer > auringer@tds.net > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Jan 8 16:09:45 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Well, I could possibly drive out and return with a truck. Possibly I > could haul for Bill Donzelli if he's interested. It is on the way. That > would save at least 2 ZS-1's. We could haul more, perhaps. Do you have > docs on the ZS's? > > I am loath to fly, but it might be possible. I need to know if they are > availbale to us, and then I could put the trip together. I did a > truckload from VA/DC/NY just before Christmas. Probably 2 days out, lay > day, load and 2 days back. Or 3. If we (Merle and I) are going to do this, I could roadtrip out to help (after all, I want a ZS-1, and would not complain about a VAX-11/780, either). I need to make a Chicago run soon, anyway. Merle could tag along on the roadtrip all the way to Madison for the machine loading fun. It would save you a airplane ride, and you would get to see all of the fun stuff in the Midwest. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From msell at ontimesupport.com Tue Jan 8 17:50:56 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020108174903.02c80cf8@127.0.0.1> Moving an 11/780 around isn't too bad if you have two people, and you remove the power supplies. I moved one into the house after removing the boards, side panels, door, power supplies, 11/03, and the fans. Those blower fans are heavy..... - Matt P.S. - A liftgate truck is a blessing from Heaven if you can get one. At 05:09 PM 1/8/2002 -0500, you wrote: > > Well, I could possibly drive out and return with a truck. Possibly I > > could haul for Bill Donzelli if he's interested. It is on the way. That > > would save at least 2 ZS-1's. We could haul more, perhaps. Do you have > > docs on the ZS's? > > > > I am loath to fly, but it might be possible. I need to know if they are > > availbale to us, and then I could put the trip together. I did a > > truckload from VA/DC/NY just before Christmas. Probably 2 days out, lay > > day, load and 2 days back. Or 3. > >If we (Merle and I) are going to do this, I could roadtrip out to help >(after all, I want a ZS-1, and would not complain about a VAX-11/780, >either). I need to make a Chicago run soon, anyway. Merle could tag along >on the roadtrip all the way to Madison for the machine loading fun. It >would save you a airplane ride, and you would get to see all of the fun >stuff in the Midwest. > >William Donzelli >aw288@osfn.org Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From allain at panix.com Tue Jan 8 18:07:37 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020108174903.02c80cf8@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <002301c198a1$a61c1760$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Moving an 11/780 around isn't too bad if you have two people, and you > remove the power supplies. An old friend tried (not too hard; I was pretty interested) to sell me empty 780 cabinets in 1988. Thought he said the basic doublewide _empty_ cabinet was 350 ?250?lbs. Not too bad??? John A. From msell at ontimesupport.com Tue Jan 8 18:38:27 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available In-Reply-To: <002301c198a1$a61c1760$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020108174903.02c80cf8@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020108182751.02c8c208@127.0.0.1> It does have wheels..... : ) I doubt that an empty cabinet is 350 lbs. I moved one into the house by myself. I just put a small ramp at the front door. I lifted one side of the cabinet to put the first set of wheels onto the entryway, went around the side, and pushed the back half up the ramp. The bitch is moving a fully loaded 780 around on the carpet. I relocated the 780 and the Unibus cabinet to the other side of the office - both cabinets are loaded and sitting on carpet. That was a job..... The trick is to combine the moving and cleaning operations. I removed everything except the SBI backplane from the chassis, rolled it into the driveway from the garage, and powerwashed it. Then, I individually cleaned every component I removed. The boards went to the dishwasher, and the metal chassis components and fans were cleaned with a garden hose and detergent. When the chassis was dry (in Houston, during the occasional low humidity summer day, things dry *real* fast) I rolled it into the house, and I brought the rest of the components inside and started to mount them. This process took about a week or so to finish. It's a clean 780, though... Want some 8600's? I can get you a few. Where are you located? - Matt At 07:07 PM 1/8/2002 -0500, you wrote: > > Moving an 11/780 around isn't too bad if you have two people, and you > > remove the power supplies. > >An old friend tried (not too hard; I was pretty interested) to >sell me empty 780 cabinets in 1988. Thought he said >the basic doublewide _empty_ cabinet was 350 ?250?lbs. >Not too bad??? > >John A. Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From at258 at osfn.org Tue Jan 8 11:15:50 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available In-Reply-To: <20020108161803.GFMB27302.chruser@[204.246.1.41]> Message-ID: Would it be possible to get a MassComp system with these? We don't have one of them yet, although they don't seem to have a great reputation. I see you're looking at 2 week time frame for a committment, and I thank that can be done. We might even be able to get headed out there in that time frame. Incidentally we're 501-c-3 if that helps any. On Tue, 8 Jan 2002 auringer@tds.net wrote: > > From: "Merle K. Peirce" > > > Well we might very well be interested in a ZS-1. > > Do you have some idea of how and when? As I mentioned before, I would need to have a commitment fairly quick to keep the machines intact. > > Later, > Jon > > Jon Auringer > auringer@tds.net > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From auringer at tds.net Tue Jan 8 11:54:11 2002 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available References: Message-ID: <3C3B3243.AA23D9F6@tds.net> "Merle K. Peirce" wrote: > > Would it be possible to get a MassComp system with these? We don't have > one of them yet, although they don't seem to have a great reputation. Yes you can > I see you're looking at 2 week time frame for a committment, and I thank > that can be done. We might even be able to get headed out there in that > time frame. Incidentally we're 501-c-3 if that helps any. I don't exactly know what 501-c-3 is, but I am guessing a nonprofit org? If so, I think that will help us. If you want to include that info in the information request I just sent you, that would be great. Jon From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1551.monmouth.com Tue Jan 8 11:55:08 2002 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1551.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available In-Reply-To: from "Merle K. Peirce" at "Jan 8, 2002 12:15:50 pm" Message-ID: <200201081755.g08Ht8d00804@bg-tc-ppp1551.monmouth.com> > Would it be possible to get a MassComp system with these? We don't have > one of them yet, although they don't seem to have a great reputation. They're pretty interesting machines with a history that dates back to the real time folks at DEC. When the 68k stuff started appearing a number of ex-DEC and DG folks looked at Unix and grafted the idea of RSX-11's EMT routines onto SysIII and later SysV Unix. I worked for DEC for 5 years and went to Concurrent which was the old Interdata/Perkin Elmer folks. In late 87 or early 88 they merged with Masscomp and took them over and ran the operations (which was already troubled by bad management) into the ground. RTU was not quite as slick as the Pyramid dual universe scheme. RTU just implemented the SysIII/SysV commands and dual BSD and SysV libraries to link against. Bill -- d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com From at258 at osfn.org Tue Jan 8 13:34:59 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available In-Reply-To: <200201081755.g08Ht8d00804@bg-tc-ppp1551.monmouth.com> Message-ID: Wanna come up and play with our Perkin-Elmers sometime? On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Bill Pechter wrote: > > Would it be possible to get a MassComp system with these? We don't have > > one of them yet, although they don't seem to have a great reputation. > > They're pretty interesting machines with a history that dates back to > the real time folks at DEC. > > When the 68k stuff started appearing a number of ex-DEC and DG folks > looked at Unix and grafted the idea of RSX-11's EMT routines onto > SysIII and later SysV Unix. > > I worked for DEC for 5 years and went to Concurrent which was the old > Interdata/Perkin Elmer folks. In late 87 or early 88 they merged with > Masscomp and took them over and ran the operations (which was already > troubled by bad management) into the ground. > > RTU was not quite as slick as the Pyramid dual universe scheme. > RTU just implemented the SysIII/SysV commands and dual BSD and SysV > libraries to link against. > > > Bill > -- > d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! > bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From auringer at tds.net Tue Jan 8 10:35:24 2002 From: auringer at tds.net (auringer@tds.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available Message-ID: <20020108163524.GRIS27302.chruser@[204.246.1.41]> Hi Emanuel, > I would be interested in one/two of the 11/780 ... > (and documentation) > When you talk about a short time frame, what do you mean by that ? As I mentioned before, I don't know how long I will be here. Our building has been sold and we have to be out by the end of march at the very latest. I do not have that long to get rid of stuff. We are currently dumping everything that has been deemed junk. Junk includes this equipment. It would be best if I could get arrangements made in the next couple of weeks. If nothing else, If I could find someone locally to temporarily store some stuff until arrangements can be made for everyone to get what they want. Where are you located? Jon From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jan 8 10:43:27 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E0BA@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: John Allain [mailto:allain@panix.com] > WI?) Because of the distance could you put me down for: > > > 1 uVaxII SMD controller card? I was just thinking the same thing. I'd love to have something for my MicroVAX other than the normal "MFM" type disks. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From auringer at tds.net Tue Jan 8 10:53:58 2002 From: auringer at tds.net (auringer@tds.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available Message-ID: <20020108165358.HCZY27302.chruser@[204.246.1.41]> Hi Pat, > From: Pat Finnegan > How big is your smalled 9track tape drive, where are your located, and > would you be willing to ship? Also, how big/heavy is a DECWRITER III? The smallest 9-track would be the slot loading Cipher F880640-90-1025U from the Valid systems. It fits a standard 19" rack and is about 8-9" tall and probably 24" deep. A quick hefting of the drive feels like 70-90lb. The front load StorageTek units are also rack mount, but are about 24" tall. After removing one yesterday I would say it weighs about a ton, but more likely about 100lb. Two people would be a very good idea. A Decwriter is like an oversize typewriter with its own table. The Decwriters are the consoles for the VAXEN, so I would think they should stay together, unless the new VAX owners don't want them. Later, Jon Jon Auringer auringer@tds.net Madison, WI From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jan 8 07:49:13 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: Back to board washing for a moment References: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0219EA@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> Message-ID: <001b01c1984b$4223dbe0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If you're concerned about the components on the board, and you well should be, in this case, then you can clean the board step-wise, first dusting it with a hair brush (I use a shaving brush) and then attack the sticky grime with a strong sprayable detergen, focusing the spray on the board so as to avoid the components that might be affected by moisture or detergent, thoroughly brushing and subsequently rinsing the board with plenty of quite hot water. Older sweep circuit boards such as what you mention seldom have particularly static sensitive parts on them, but they do frequently have pot's, etc, that won't benefit from residue of detergen in them. You can clean the solder-side of the board with alcohol and wash and rinse it with the same procedure. There may be better procedures and practices, but I've found that to be adquate for monitors, keyboards, etc. If you have a compressor, that might help in removing water from the component side of the board. I can't recommend that for current-generation, CMOS-laden boards. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Graham" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 2:49 AM Subject: Back to board washing for a moment > Having read all the threads relating to board washing I've got a question. > What are the panel's thoughts on video boards? I'm thinking of flyback > transformers and the like......got a PET 8032SK here that I'm picking up on > fixing again after a couple of months layoff - it's taken up smoking...... > > Anyway; it's been turned off since early november time, and since the board > has a thick layer of greasy grime all over it I want to give it a wash since > I can't see where the smoke's coming from apart from 'close to the front at > the right'..... > > Any help appreciated > > -- > Adrian Graham, Corporate Microsystems Ltd > e: adrian.graham@corporatemicrosystems.com > w: www.corporatemicrosystems.com > w2: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Online Computer Museum) > > From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Tue Jan 8 08:39:02 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: Back to board washing for a moment Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0219F0@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] > Sent: 08 January 2002 12:23 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Back to board washing for a moment > > Make sure you properly discharge the CRT and other caps in > the HV section > before disconnecting the anode lead from the CRT. You can > find some basic > service and safety information on the sci.electronics.repair > FAQ located > here: http://www.repairfaq.org/ Thanks for that; the board's been out of the chassis for over a week now; I've just been trying to find time to clean it up. If the flyback is suffering from bad soldering could that itself cause stress in other components and thus the smoke? It won't take long to resolder everything since it's not a very big board..... cheers -- Adrian Graham, Corporate Microsystems Ltd e: adrian.graham@corporatemicrosystems.com w: www.corporatemicrosystems.com w2: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Online Computer Museum) From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Tue Jan 8 08:42:01 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: Back to board washing for a moment Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0219F1@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > Sent: 08 January 2002 13:49 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Back to board washing for a moment > > static sensitive parts on them, but they do frequently have > pot's, etc, that > won't benefit from residue of detergen in them. You can > clean the solder-side > of the board with alcohol and wash and rinse it with the same > procedure. Noted. In that case I'll desolder the flyback and proceed with the spray detergent; there's only 2 or 3 pots on there. cheers a From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 8 13:33:44 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: Back to board washing for a moment In-Reply-To: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0219EA@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> from "Adrian Graham" at Jan 8, 2 09:49:49 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1402 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020108/a7915fd5/attachment.ksh From msell at ontimesupport.com Tue Jan 8 17:48:42 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: Back to board washing for a moment In-Reply-To: References: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0219EA@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020108174511.02c7ee38@127.0.0.1> I wouldn't advise that you run HV components through the wash.... .... I do - but only when I have spares or the price for failure is very low. I've run many HV boards for vector monitors through the dishwasher, but only because I wanted them really clean. I was prepared to lose a transformer or two - but only because I can get replacements easily enough for those monitors. In other words, I know it's not really a good idea, but my desire to have a very clean vector monitor boardset was greater than the potential cost of a failure or two. I don't advise others to do this..... - Matt At 07:33 PM 1/8/2002 +0000, you wrote: > > > > Having read all the threads relating to board washing I've got a question. > > What are the panel's thoughts on video boards? I'm thinking of flyback > >IT should be OK, but I'd not want to wash HV stuff, particularly not >'wound components' with water. It might cause leakage, and those parts >are expensive and difficult to replace. > >On a 'classic' monitor PCB there's nothing that's static-sensitive (some >modern monitors use a MOSFET for the HOT (line output transistor), which >could be static-damaged). So that's one thing you don't have to worry >about that you do worry about with logic boards. > >What I'd do is start by brushing off all the loose dust. And wiping round >the flyback and related parts with 'kitchen paper'. Then desolder the >flyback and other large componets and clean them, and the PCB, with >propan-2-ol (available from Maplin, or at least it used to be. They call >it isopropyl alcohol). > > > transformers and the like......got a PET 8032SK here that I'm picking up on > > fixing again after a couple of months layoff - it's taken up smoking...... > >Sometimes smoking can come from dry joints that are arcing. By removing >the flyback and resoldering it, you've eliminated one possible cause... > >Annother cuase (which led me a merry dance once) is just dust burning off >high power resistors that are _supposed_ to run hot. No fault, other than >it needed cleaning... > >-tony Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From guerney at bigpond.com Tue Jan 8 07:36:39 2002 From: guerney at bigpond.com (Phil Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: "The Home Computer Course" published by Orbis, 1983 References: <135.760e405.296b1bd6@aol.com> Message-ID: <003a01c19849$810c8340$7937fea9@Guerney> From: Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 1:42 AM Subject: "The Home Computer Course" published by Orbis, 1983 > I have the complete set (i think) in two grey binders. Does anybody > know if it is of any value? Is it collectable? You do not have quite the complete set - there was a follow-up 8-binder series called The Home Computer Advanced Course. A total of 10 binders make the complete collection, each holding 12 individual issues. I recommend them as collectables for vintage home computer collectors. The coverage of hardware and software is extensive with each issue having a featured computer with the article showing very nice photographs including details of the boards with lots of info. They have come up on e-bay for about $US 60 for the ten volume set and 20-40 for the two-volumes, so yes they have some value. Phil (Brisbane, Australia). From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Tue Jan 8 08:43:13 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: "The Home Computer Course" published by Orbis, 1983 Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0219F2@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Guerney [mailto:guerney@bigpond.com] > Sent: 08 January 2002 13:37 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: "The Home Computer Course" published by Orbis, 1983 > > > From: > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 1:42 AM > Subject: "The Home Computer Course" published by Orbis, 1983 > > > > I have the complete set (i think) in two grey binders. Does anybody > > know if it is of any value? Is it collectable? > > They have come up on e-bay for about $US 60 for the ten > volume set and 20-40 > for the two-volumes, so yes they have some value. > There's a set on ebay right now and it hasn't been bid on yet so it's still at $4; or at least it was last night when I checked! cheers a From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jan 8 07:14:56 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: Astronautics ZS-1 In-Reply-To: <3C3ADB0C.20F880E8@tds.net> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020108071352.02121e40@pc> I asked a friend at Astronautics about the ZS-1, and he said: >I talked to a guy who has used the one we used to have here. He says for >scalar operations, it's as good as a 386. For purely vector operations, it >might be equivalent to a 1 GHz Pentium. >If you are looking for scrap value, it has 60 amp 5 volt power supplies and >old SCSI hard drives. >He also said you might have trouble with your electric bill. - John From chris at mainecoon.com Tue Jan 8 09:41:10 2002 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: Astronautics ZS-1 In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020108071352.02121e40@pc> Message-ID: John Foust wrote: > I asked a friend at Astronautics about the ZS-1, and he said: > > > I talked to a guy who has used the one we used to have here. He says for > > scalar operations, it's as good as a 386. For purely vector operations, it > > might be equivalent to a 1 GHz Pentium. > > If you are looking for scrap value, it has 60 amp 5 volt power supplies and > > old SCSI hard drives. He neglected why this is a historically significant machine. Among other things, it's an early example of dynamic instruction scheduling, decoupled access- execute and distinct float and integer pipes. It's also a pseudo vector machine. All in all, it's an impressive hunk of technology for its vintage (~1988, I believe). The DAE and dynamic scheduling aspects are particularly interesting; dynamic scheduling generally produces better performance that the more typical static scheduling, and the hardware queues used to support both the DAE and DS aspects of the architecture illustrate an alternative to the more typical register renaming seen in superscalar architectures. > > He also said you might have trouble with your electric bill. He's probably not wrong. I believe the thing is implemented in ECL. If I could figure out how to get one of these systems from there to here I'd jump at the chance. These things belong in a museum, not a scrap heap. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jan 8 13:13:29 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: Astronautics ZS-1 In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.0.20020108071352.02121e40@pc> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020108131008.022aa1d8@pc> At 07:41 AM 1/8/2002 -0800, Chris Kennedy wrote: >He neglected why this is a historically significant machine. Among other things, >it's an early example of dynamic instruction scheduling, decoupled access- >execute and distinct float and integer pipes. It's also a pseudo vector machine. I'm not well-versed in architectural history, but the quick Google search I did yesterday did certainly reveal a number of people who'd written papers about it back then. >> > He also said you might have trouble with your electric bill. > >He's probably not wrong. I believe the thing is implemented in ECL. > >If I could figure out how to get one of these systems from there to >here I'd jump at the chance. These things belong in a museum, not >a scrap heap. Darn, there goes my idea about ripping out the boards to sell them as wall ornaments on eBay. It sounds like they'd be a bear to move, though, regardless of whether it was 30 miles or the 1,764 miles from Madison to Palo Alto. - John From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Jan 8 16:00:17 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: Astronautics ZS-1 In-Reply-To: <3C3ADB0C.20F880E8@tds.net> Message-ID: > No, it isn't. But I just need a real commitment to wanting the hardware > so I can negotiate with the company. I am on the verge of giving you a commitment. > It will take a couple of days for pictures. The two main racks are > connected by _extensive_ cabling. I am doubtful that taking the two main > racks apart is feasible. One of the main racks seems to be a standard > 19" wide, the other main one looks to be about 30" wide. The third rack > is a separate 19" wide unit. OK, sounds like truck material. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jan 8 06:55:39 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <200201072341.PAA25800@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: Someplace, maybe even this list (my brain is that shot from a cold), mentioned an issue of PC Gamer that had a run down on the 50 best classic computer games, AND how to get them working etc. Anybody know which issue that was? A little groups.google.com searching shows it likely isn't either the the top 50 lists in the last couple years, but I seem to remember it as recent anyway. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jan 8 08:33:55 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Jan 8, 2 04:55:39 am" Message-ID: <200201081433.GAA09006@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Someplace, maybe even this list (my brain is that shot from a cold), > mentioned an issue of PC Gamer that had a run down on the 50 best classic > computer games, AND how to get them working etc. Anybody know which issue > that was? A little groups.google.com searching shows it likely isn't either > the the top 50 lists in the last couple years, but I seem to remember it as > recent anyway. They do this annually, although a lot of the classic games are starting to drop off the list. I'll have to dig through my stack of magazines. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you. ----------- From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Jan 8 08:41:05 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <200201081433.GAA09006@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: from Mike Ford at "Jan 8, 2 04:55:39 am" Message-ID: <3C3B1311.21264.F852BD32@localhost> > > Someplace, maybe even this list (my brain is that shot from a cold), > > mentioned an issue of PC Gamer that had a run down on the 50 best classic > > computer games, AND how to get them working etc. Anybody know which issue > > that was? A little groups.google.com searching shows it likely isn't either > > the the top 50 lists in the last couple years, but I seem to remember it as > > recent anyway. > They do this annually, although a lot of the classic games are starting to > drop off the list. I'll have to dig through my stack of magazines. Shouldn't be a big deal to a CC-Member ... just setup a system as described on the package and inset the disks :)) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jan 8 10:39:39 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <3C3B1311.21264.F852BD32@localhost> References: <200201081433.GAA09006@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from Mike Ford at "Jan 8, 2 04:55:39 am" Message-ID: >> > Someplace, maybe even this list (my brain is that shot from a cold), >> > mentioned an issue of PC Gamer that had a run down on the 50 best classic >> > computer games, AND how to get them working etc. Anybody know which issue >> > that was? A little groups.google.com searching shows it likely isn't >>either >> > the the top 50 lists in the last couple years, but I seem to remember >>it as >> > recent anyway. > >> They do this annually, although a lot of the classic games are starting to >> drop off the list. I'll have to dig through my stack of magazines. > >Shouldn't be a big deal to a CC-Member ... just setup a system as >described on the package and inset the disks :)) Minimum requirements are the easy part. The hard part is how new of a system breaks the game, with a minefield extending from W3.1 on a P90 to W98 on a PII 233 MMX. Support for games often drops suddenly, so that fairly dopey advances can be problems. Also locating updates from dead companies can be a task too. When a game comes out there may be literally hundreds of decent web pages with tips and information. A year or so later half a dead links, and many pages that do exist are stale (not updated) or hollow (file links are 404s). Kind of strange, with the really old games the problem is finding a working copy, and with the middle aged games its getting the copy to work. From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Jan 8 11:39:26 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Jan 8, 02 08:39:39 am Message-ID: <200201081739.MAA08890@wordstock.com> > > >> > Someplace, maybe even this list (my brain is that shot from a cold), > >> > mentioned an issue of PC Gamer that had a run down on the 50 best classic > >> > computer games, AND how to get them working etc. Anybody know which issue > >> > that was? A little groups.google.com searching shows it likely isn't > >>either > >> > the the top 50 lists in the last couple years, but I seem to remember > >>it as > >> > recent anyway. > > > >> They do this annually, although a lot of the classic games are starting to > >> drop off the list. I'll have to dig through my stack of magazines. > > > >Shouldn't be a big deal to a CC-Member ... just setup a system as > >described on the package and inset the disks :)) > > Minimum requirements are the easy part. The hard part is how new of a > system breaks the game, with a minefield extending from W3.1 on a P90 to > W98 on a PII 233 MMX. Support for games often drops suddenly, so that > fairly dopey advances can be problems. Also locating updates from dead > companies can be a task too. > > When a game comes out there may be literally hundreds of decent web pages > with tips and information. A year or so later half a dead links, and many > pages that do exist are stale (not updated) or hollow (file links are 404s). > > Kind of strange, with the really old games the problem is finding a working > copy, and with the middle aged games its getting the copy to work. > There are utilities that slow down your computer. I believe there is even one for Windows. At a place I worked we were having problems running FoxPro 2.6 for Windows programs. We finally found out the problem was not that the app was being run under NT, but how fast the machine ran. Once we used this SlowMo program to run the FoxPro apps, everything was okay. Cheers, Bryan From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jan 8 15:54:42 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <200201081739.MAA08890@wordstock.com> References: <200201081739.MAA08890@wordstock.com> Message-ID: > There are utilities that slow down your computer. I believe >there is even >one for Windows. Since when did you need a utility to slow down a computer that was running Windows? Yes, I do know what the original intent of your remark was...just thought I'd have some fun with it. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Jan 8 16:23:07 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Jan 8, 02 04:54:42 pm Message-ID: <200201082223.RAA12498@wordstock.com> > > > There are utilities that slow down your computer. I believe > >there is even > >one for Windows. > > Since when did you need a utility to slow down a computer > that was running Windows? Well yes you do have a point... Just running Windows on said computer is enough... > > Yes, I do know what the original intent of your remark > was...just thought I'd have some fun with it. If Windows wasn't slow enough for ya... Well.. I got something else.. :) Bryan P.S. When OS/2 came out, what really impressed me about it was its ability to format a floppy disk and *NOT* slow down every other process running... Oh, and play MS-DOS shoot-em-ups in a window and *STILL* have time for other things... Now XP / 2000 can't even run *simpler* MS-DOS games! From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jan 8 16:49:52 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <200201082223.RAA12498@wordstock.com> References: <200201082223.RAA12498@wordstock.com> Message-ID: >P.S. When OS/2 came out, what really impressed me about it was its ability to >format a floppy disk and *NOT* slow down every other process running... Oh, >and play MS-DOS shoot-em-ups in a window and *STILL* have time for other >things... Now XP / 2000 can't even run *simpler* MS-DOS games! I would imagine that older CGA/PCjr type games such as 'Chuck Yeargers AFT' or 'Gato' would likely be a problem on a lot of newer stuff, especially if it required you to boot the disk. The sad thing is, the new P4 CPU's don't impress me as there is no noticable speed increase, and there darned well should be when you're up at a gig and a half clockspeed! Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 8 17:48:34 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > I would imagine that older CGA/PCjr type games such as 'Chuck > Yeargers AFT' or 'Gato' would likely be a problem on a lot of newer > stuff, especially if it required you to boot the disk. The sad thing > is, the new P4 CPU's don't impress me as there is no noticable speed > increase, and there darned well should be when you're up at a gig and > a half clockspeed! Well, I think that's more due to the OS. I'm running an Athlon XP, and occasionally have to boot into Win2000. As near as I can tell, W2k is no faster on this box than it was on my old Athlon 600. Linux, OTOH, simply screams on this thing. Kernel compiles, with dependency checks, module builds and all, went from 9-11 minutes to less than 4 minutes. A nearly linear relationship to the increased CPU clockspeed. Of course, you mentioned the P4, not Athlon. I ran across a benchmark review yesterday that compared the various P4 chips to the Athlon 1.4 and all the XPs, and the P4 lost its shirt. Doc From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jan 8 18:09:00 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Well, I think that's more due to the OS. I'm running an Athlon XP, and >occasionally have to boot into Win2000. As near as I can tell, W2k is no >faster on this box than it was on my old Athlon 600. Linux, OTOH, simply >screams on this thing. Kernel compiles, with dependency checks, module >builds and all, went from 9-11 minutes to less than 4 minutes. A nearly >linear relationship to the increased CPU clockspeed. > Of course, you mentioned the P4, not Athlon. I ran across a benchmark >review yesterday that compared the various P4 chips to the Athlon 1.4 >and all the XPs, and the P4 lost its shirt. Fresh P4 1.4 as shipped from Dell with NT on it. Not that I think much of Dell's quality anyway, but this machine didn't impress me at all. The CPU even arrived filthy but still sealed in it's box and inner bag. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 8 18:46:25 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Fresh P4 1.4 as shipped from Dell with NT on it. Not that I > think much of Dell's quality anyway, but this machine didn't impress > me at all. The CPU even arrived filthy but still sealed in it's box > and inner bag. I try very hard to do business locally, even at the cost of a few bucks. But Dell, after 2.5 years of doing business with them as a representative of my UT dept, has lost my custom forever. We bought a high-end workstation from Dell contingent on a hard delivery date. The due date came, no box, our sales rep said it was on the burn-in bench and would ship next day. Two days later, no box, our rep wasn't in, his boss checked and said "We are on back-order for your 36G drives" He didn't seem disturbed that the rep had lied to me. When I told him that the order was contingent on a timely delivery, and that I would have expected an email warning me that our order was delayed, he said this: "Mr. Shipley, it _would_ be nice if we could do that. However, we don't have any mechanism in place for that, and you won't find any first-tier OEM that does." Huh?! That was the last piece of business I'll EVER do with Dell. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 8 17:26:14 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:21 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <200201082223.RAA12498@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Bryan Pope wrote: > P.S. When OS/2 came out, what really impressed me about it was its ability to > format a floppy disk and *NOT* slow down every other process running... Oh, > and play MS-DOS shoot-em-ups in a window and *STILL* have time for other > things... Now XP / 2000 can't even run *simpler* MS-DOS games! You forgot to mention printing multi-page documents in Windows. HOW do they manage to drag a P400 to a stand-still while a 50-page job prints? Doc From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 8 12:16:31 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: <200201080355.TAA29390@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <20020108181631.51279.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> --- Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > Today, I received my neat-o thing for the week, an ISA card for > > > LocalTalk... > > > Which brand of card? > > Gen-yew-ine Apple LocalTalk "PC Card" M2313/A. Well there you go. I have a clone card that gets a mention in an ancient Linux document of being "under consideration". I haven't pursued it recently. > > But if you have a DE-9 PhoneNET adapter, that should go on your ISA > > card just fine. Pre-DIN8 Macs had a DE9F for serial. > > Who would carry those? Somebody on the list. I don't have stacks of LocalTalk/PhoneNET hardware, but I have a few things. I think all my PhoneNET stuff is DIN-8. I occasionally see LocalTalk stuff at the local university surplus depot, but it's a twice-a-year thing. > I knew I'd have to start from scratch, but this makes the project seem > bigger than I'd like it to be :-/ It's a non-trivial, but not impossible task. > The PC's card does indeed have a Z8530 on the board. But, bizarrely, it > also has a Rockwell R65C02. Does this give some hope, possibly, of > stealing > the low-level code the on-board CPU is using to drive the Z8530 if I > could read off the EPROMs? The EPROM socket is labelled 2764 (hopefully > it's truthful). That could be worth looking at. I'm guessing, then, that Apple chose to recycle their Apple IIgs code into this card. Since I'm guessing you don't have a schematic, it'll be fun to guess the memory map of the 6502 from just the code. I'm working on a project to documents the internals of a Commodore D9090 hard disk, but at least we have the schematics (and a bunch of similar code from late-model floppies already disassembled). Let me just say that even if you have an 8KB ROM dump, it will take a bunch of time to turn it into something useful (having disassembled and mostly commented the Zork engine for the C-64 - 6K) If anyone has disassembled and commented any of the LocalTalk code from the IIgs, that would speed up the task considerably. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 8 15:15:33 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: <20020108181631.51279.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jan 8, 2 10:16:31 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1652 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020108/28618130/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 8 13:26:16 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: <200201080355.TAA29390@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Jan 7, 2 07:55:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1656 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020108/d21473ef/attachment.ksh From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 8 17:44:32 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020108234432.75171.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > Isn;t it just a connector change? Yes. > Get the pinouts of the DE9 mac serial > port and the mini-DIN 8 and wire up an adapter that links the pins with > the same names. I've done it to plug some AppleTalk DE9 adapters to my AMax-II AppleTalk board in my Amiga and on my HP LaserJet4ML because I did have an Imagewriter cable (DIN-8 on each end) and some DE9 connectors, but I did not have the right AppleTalk adapters. I know they make Female DIN-8 connectors, but they are, in my experience, rarer than Male DIN-8 connectors. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 8 12:41:52 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: QBus IDE Controller Message-ID: Most of y'all have probably seen this thread, but considering the rarity & price of medium/high capacity storage controllers, I thought this worth posting. There's a thread ongoing on alt.sys.pdp11 about a working QBus IDE adapter. The designer has a working prototype, 2.11BSD drivers, and a NetBSD driver in progress. He's asking for input as to interest in developing & producing these, and has docs, schematics, and I think drivers up at: http://www.chd.dyndns.org/qbus_ide/ Doc From Gary.Messick at itt.com Tue Jan 8 15:22:33 2002 From: Gary.Messick at itt.com (Messick, Gary) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: Jumper settings needed for Heath H-27 disk controller Message-ID: <998FEBD9C16DD211881200A0C9D61AD70446894E@acdfwx3.acdin.de.ittind.com> Ethan, I'm pretty sure I have a copy of the H-27 manual(s). Do you still need them? What exactly are you looking for? Gary > -----Original Message----- > From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com] > Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 7:01 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Jumper settings needed for Heath H-27 disk controller > > > > As I've mentioned before, I have a Heathkit H-11 with > standard Heathkit > disk controller. The disk controller locks up the CPU if > it's in place > in the interrupt chain (it will begin the boot process if it's behind > all the cards with a gap in the grant chain, but after > loading the boot > sector and turning on interrupts, the OS, naturally, won't run). > > So... I have tested all the TTL chips in a chip tester. What I can't > test are the 88xx bus chips. From tracing the grant pins, I think > the 8837 is what hangs off the interrupt lines. I have finally found > some (unsoldered) loose replacements. What I still lack are > schematics > or at least a jumper map. > > The jumpers have been soldered and cut and resoldered before > I received > the card. As a result, I have no idea what they are supposed > to be set > at. Does anyone know the state of the jumpers for default operation? > > Thanks, > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > http://greetings.yahoo.com > ************************************ If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT. ************************************ From bill_r at inetnebr.com Tue Jan 8 15:25:48 2002 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: eMag Solutions LLC announces end of life plan for open reel (9-track) tape Message-ID: Maybe this has already gone through the list. If not, I thought it might be of interest. Seems like the end of an era... http://www.emaglink.com/Articles/17Dec01.htm Atlanta (December 17, 2001) - eMag, the last manufacturer of open reel (9-track) tape, is announcing its end of life program for users of this product. eMag, which has produced open reel (9-track) tape in its Graham, Texas facility for over 30 years, has determined that the significantly decreased demand for this once dominant magnetic media format mandates an organized end of life announcement and program. To provide an orderly and seamless transition for users of open reel (9-track) tape technology, we have spent over 3 years developing alternative solutions that have proven to be both operationally efficient and cost effective. For a more detailed description of eMag's alternatives please visit 9-track Retirement. Final Orders In order to properly prepare for our final build of this product, eMag will review and accept final orders for open reel (9-track) tape now, and through January 14, 2002. We will prioritize shipments for firm non-cancelable orders, on a first come first served basis, consistent with our existing inventory and final manufacturing run and plant capacity. eMag will not manufacture new open reel (9-track) tape after these final orders are completed. To assist you with your needs and answer any questions, eMag has designated experienced program managers in the United States and Europe to oversee this end of life program. Please direct all orders, and other inquiries to them at: USA Scott Gaylord Vice President 404-995-6022 sgaylord@emaglink.com Europe, Middle East and Africa Mark Stephens Vice President 44-1495-311000 mstephens@emaglink.co.uk About eMag Solutions eMag Solutions is an international organization, headquartered in Atlanta, Georgia. Our European operations are based in Brynmawr, UK, and there are more the 200 employees worldwide. Thirty years of success working in data center environments has created a team of expert and experienced professionals, with unparalleled knowledge of data media, its capability, application and potential which has allowed us to develop additional strategic relationships to ensure that our clients have access to the best data storage solutions available. Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r Home of Fun with Molten Metal, technological oddities, and the original COSMAC Elf computer simulator! From djg at drs-esg.com Tue Jan 8 17:08:19 2002 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: CCITT G4 compression in WIN98 Message-ID: <200201082308.SAA17613@drs-esg.com> >> It turns out that Windows comes with a program that >> does CCITT Group 3 and 4 compression. >well what was it! > Since I didn't see the author answer, I think is is the windows imaging program. Also called wang imaging and kodak imaging in various versions. Start->programs->accessories->imaging Use menu page->convert->compresssion and select CCITT Group 2(2d) Fax. I think this choice moves around some in the menu structure for the various options. You can also make that the default for scans under another menu. Didn't work properly with my sheet feeder though. Can do simple cleanup on the scans. Very fast for displaying and paging through the tiff files and doesn't have the display artifacts that Adobe PDF viewer sometimes has. (Select menu option view->scale to grey for best display quality). David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 8 19:06:39 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: Mini-Mini computer scans In-Reply-To: <3C39F3C5.914E901D@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > Tothwolf wrote: > > > Actually, these jpegs are great. I wish more scanned documents were made > > available in this format. Once I have my equipment set back up, I'll set > > about processing them with OCR software. The author's block printing > > should OCR well since his handwriting is very good. Once I have them OCR'd > > I'll work on converting them to postscript. > > JPEG is a lossy imaging format. You lose detail with this format. > Use something else! These jpegs are of very high quality compared to the lossy/fuzzy images usually found in pdf files. I would have stored the images as a Tiff format files and gzip'd them if I had scanned these documents. -Toth From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Tue Jan 8 11:47:36 2002 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: Munchin, Germany (Re: More off-topic drivel: Re: Language and English) References: <3C39C267.28359.F32FA512@localhost> <3C3A00BC.23893.F4231EA9@localhost> Message-ID: <3C3B30B8.F264EFA4@verizon.net> Having lived in Garmisch for five years and attended a kindergarten in Partenkirchen wann Ich war ein kleiner kinder, I appreciate the history lesson. I'll pass it on to my dad who worked in Oberammagau at the time (1960-1965). Ah, the days when a mark was the same as a quarter. :) Anyway, euro has taken over and here we are. What does Minga mean? Some special Bavarian reference? Eric P.S. Yes, some Americans trying to be cute (or maybe not?) call Munich, Munchin. I think its suppose to be a combination between the English spelling and the German pronunciation. Silly Americans. :) Hans Franke wrote: > > > > > A Plan for the Improvement of English Spelling > > > > > by Mark Twain > > > > Jep. What I like most is that similar aproaches are available to German, > > > eliminateing most letters ... keep in mind that German has already a mostly > > > phonetic spelling ... And the replacements are likewise selected. > > > That may be so, but I have never been able to understand how Muenchen(?) > > ever got to be translated to Munich. Obviously, there are some > > pronounciation differences that I am missing! > > It's not about Pronounciation, but rather history. For one thing, > there is at least a dozend named for Munich > > Standard German: Muenchen (ue = umlaut u) > Bavarian: Minga (Note, we got our own name :) > Latin: Monacensis > Englich: Munich > French: Munich (Pronounciation differs dramaticly from English) > Italian: Monaco > Turkish: Munih (umlaut dots above the u and no dot on the i) > Czech: Mnichow (Most slavic languages variy here only the spelling) > Hungarian .... And a lot more I don't remember at the moment. > > Since the oldest _known_ part is connected to a monk settlement, basicly > all the names are variations thereof - the official founding date is 1158, > but that's only the oldest known text to name the city. Foundations tell > that the oldest known settlements are at least 4 to 7 hundred years older. > > So take some 1000 years of history of a place along known trade routes, > and people wll tell about the place and start to adaptr the name in their > own language. > > And at least for the French Name, it's just taken from Muncih coins - the > Name of the City in the 12th century, as used is said docunent was Munichen. > When on coins space for lettes was even more rare than bytes on earyl computers, > so they often droped letters. For the Englisch, I assume they just took the > French spelling and changed the pronounciation over the years (as the french > did also). > > So after all, it's no translation, just a sign of changes over the years. > Today we belive way to often that things like names are static and have to > be the same everywhere. As for myself, I'm proud to live in a city well > known to lots of people to give names of their own. > > Gruss > H. > > -- > VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ From foo at siconic.com Tue Jan 8 11:38:51 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: Spaminator In-Reply-To: <3C39FF37.9572.149AE53F@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > ROTFL. I love it, even if it was costly. It didn't cost me anything, so I don't care ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jan 8 11:31:12 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: Crescent wrenches (was: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146748F@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! From: Don Maslin [mailto:donm@cts.com] ! ! ! On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: ! ! > Asphalt when subjected to low temperatures will buckle ! > when temperatures get milder. Likely the reason most ! > main roads out here on the Canadian prairies are laid ! > in cement slabs with a space between them. ! > ! > Lawrence ! > ! ! ! ... So that the whole slab tips when the water that enters the space ! freezes. Some of us older folks remember when Canada's approach to ! frost heaving was gravel roads - much easier to repair! Hey, a _lot_ of seconday roads in Vermont (outside of the few major cites) are still gravel, cruched stone, & dirt mix. During the winter, they don't really plow the dirt roads all that much. Just pack the sonw down. Works quite well for them. And traction is not really a problem. --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jan 8 11:15:02 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3200SX Question Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146748E@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] ! ! ! You can remove NiCad leftovers from the boards/parts with ! vinegar after removing the battery. You need to remove ! all traces of vinegar once you are done, otherwise it will ! damage copper traces and other metals. I apply a paste ! mixture of baking soda and water after rinsing the vinegar ! off, and work over the area with a small plastic brush. ! The baking soda will neutralize any remaining vinegar, and ! seems to be just abrasive enough to clean off most of the ! corrosion without further damaging the copper traces. ! After a mild scrubbing, I rinse the baking soda off with a ! kitchen sprayer, and run the board through the dishwasher. ! Not all boards can or should be washed in the dishwasher, ! however. ! ! This process also works for alkaline batteries, since the ! NiCad mess is also a strong alkaline. So, it sounds like this should fix up my AA battery size MagLite flashlite, where the Duracell leaked in there... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Tue Jan 8 11:16:22 2002 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: More HP2000 trivia References: <200201071840.MAA29569@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3C3B2966.47BA439E@verizon.net> Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > Ok, here's another one....what did you have to do to direct output from > > your terminal to the system line printer? Also...where would be a good > > place to look to get an old ASR33 Teletype? > > ASR33's are available on ebay from time to time. There is one up for bids > right now in fact. They're very expensive though. The one on eBay is in the UK, however. Eric > > > -Lawrence LeMay From allain at panix.com Tue Jan 8 19:18:03 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? References: Message-ID: <042c01c198ab$7c7ed140$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > any mechanism in place for that, and you won't find > any first-tier OEM that does. IIRC, IBM quoted me 6 business day delivery, and gave in 4 calendar days. Twice. I think they knew their stuff. John A. From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue Jan 8 11:03:09 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: TCP programming question Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E587A0F3@MAIL10> Hello, all: I'm having trouble tracing down an intermittent problem with the Altair32 Emulator which as you know uses a telnet server to simulate a console. I occasionally seem to get two command prompt lines after hitting wich would lead me to believe a translation issue? Does anyone know if there is CR/LF translation across the telnet channel? For example, if I hit in the telnet client, does that produce or ? Is it dependent on the client settings? The simple Windows telnet client provides only VT52 and VT100 emulation. A quick search of the MSDN does not reveal any mention of CR/LF translation in bind, listen, accept, connect, recv, or send. Any thoughts? Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) From kevin at xpuppy.freeserve.co.uk Tue Jan 8 11:33:42 2002 From: kevin at xpuppy.freeserve.co.uk (Kevin Murrell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: TCP programming question In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E587A0F3@MAIL10> Message-ID: http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc318.html ... is a good start for all things telnet! Kevin -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Cini, Richard Sent: 08 January 2002 17:03 To: 'ClassCompList' Subject: TCP programming question Hello, all: I'm having trouble tracing down an intermittent problem with the Altair32 Emulator which as you know uses a telnet server to simulate a console. I occasionally seem to get two command prompt lines after hitting wich would lead me to believe a translation issue? Does anyone know if there is CR/LF translation across the telnet channel? For example, if I hit in the telnet client, does that produce or ? Is it dependent on the client settings? The simple Windows telnet client provides only VT52 and VT100 emulation. A quick search of the MSDN does not reveal any mention of CR/LF translation in bind, listen, accept, connect, recv, or send. Any thoughts? Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Jan 8 13:38:06 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: TCP programming question In-Reply-To: "Kevin Murrell"'s message of "Tue, 8 Jan 2002 17:33:42 -0000" References: Message-ID: <200201081938.g08Jc6o16808@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Kevin Murrell" wrote: > http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc318.html > > ... is a good start for all things telnet! But keep in mind that it is obsolete. RFC 854 and 855 are the current standards for the basic Telnet protocol. -Frank McConnell From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Jan 8 13:32:41 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: TCP programming question In-Reply-To: "Cini, Richard"'s message of "Tue, 8 Jan 2002 12:03:09 -0500" References: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E587A0F3@MAIL10> Message-ID: <200201081932.g08JWf816779@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Cini, Richard" wrote: > Does anyone know if there is CR/LF translation across the telnet > channel? For example, if I hit in the telnet client, does that > produce or ? Is it dependent on the client settings? The simple > Windows telnet client provides only VT52 and VT100 emulation. This is one of those things that is poorly understood and apt to be implemented incorrectly and/or differently by different people. Telnet tries to provide a "network virtual terminal" abstraction, and one of the bits of that abstraction is encoding a "newline" across the Telnet connection. This was important way back when a terminal or host might send CR, LF, CR LF, or some other character sequence to indicate newline; and there was some thought being given to how to make it so you could use any terminal+host as a network virtual terminal to another host. The Telnet RFC provides two encodings: CR NUL and CR LF. When I worked on WIN/TCP for MPE/V I tried to make the Telnet server use CR NUL to mean "return the carriage to the left margin" and CR LF to mean "return the carriage to the left margin and advance to the next line" (there were MPE FWRITE carriage-controls that needed to be mapped to these). What I can't remember right now is whether that worked or whether I later changed the server to send CR NUL LF in some cases to appease clients that turned CR LF back into "return the carriage to the left margin". If a Telnet negotiates binary mode (sends IAC WILL BINARY and receives IAC DO BINARY) then it is saying that it will send raw 8-bit data and not do this NVT stuff. And of course some Telnet clients just do whatever, so just send CR when the user presses RETURN or ENTER. This is Wrong, but "be liberal in what you accept", so what you need to do for the NVT (non-binary) case is to run received data through a state machine: when you receive CR you enter a state for the next character where a NUL or LF is discarded but other characters are treated as received data. -Frank McConnell From rickb at bensene.com Tue Jan 8 10:18:54 2002 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: Even More HP2000 trivia In-Reply-To: <000601c197a8$0707b4d0$0314a8c0@jupiter2> Message-ID: <000301c19860$2b08e490$0503eecd@bensene.com> Here's one for the HP 2000 fans out there: On the HP-2000C Timeshared BASIC system, what would the following command do: NAM-, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020108/9db20394/attachment.html From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Tue Jan 8 12:53:51 2002 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: Even More HP2000 trivia In-Reply-To: <000301c19860$2b08e490$0503eecd@bensene.com> References: <000301c19860$2b08e490$0503eecd@bensene.com> Message-ID: If it works like a 2000/Access system, it names your work area, which you could then SAVe. -Bob >Here's one for the HP 2000 fans out there: > >On the HP-2000C Timeshared BASIC system, what would the following command do: > >NAM-, > > bbrown@harper.cc.il.us #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 555 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020108/72966d45/attachment.bin From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Jan 8 10:38:32 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: VTech Laser 50? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3C3B2E98.15944.F8BE4276@localhost> > Does anybody know anything about this thing? The local thrift shop > has one that they claim works (but they don't know how to work it), with > everything but an AC power supply. It comes with a very broken box, or > pieces of it, instruction manual and a Basic tutorial. The sticker on > the back says 1985. The console itself is cosmetically perfect. > I didn't get it yet, because there is a compartment at the back that > appears to take some kind of cartridge. Is that part necessary for use? > It also has a narrow male card-edge connector at the back, maybe 18 or > 20 pins. What's that? > Not surprisingly, there's not a lot of information about it on the > web. Mostly Google turns up old posts to classiccmp mailing list.... Buy it (if the price is ok) Under the Laser Brand a lot of various architectures have been build. Even the Name Laser 50 has been Used twice - one is a 6502 system, the other is a Z80 machine with an build in LCD - both are quite nice. Gruss H. (And if you don't like it, I'll give you my address) -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From foo at siconic.com Tue Jan 8 11:40:21 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: VTech Laser 50? In-Reply-To: <200201080347.TAA26782@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Does anybody know anything about this thing? The local thrift shop > > has one that they claim works (but they don't know how to work it), with > > everything but an AC power supply. It comes with a very broken box, or > > pieces of it, instruction manual and a Basic tutorial. The sticker on > > the back says 1985. The console itself is cosmetically perfect. > > Is this a little LCD computer? If so, basically, that's all there is to it. > I liken it to being an oversized Tandy Pocket Computer in approximate > power and programmability. Yep, that's basically it. It has BASIC built in and I believe it has a video out so you can hook it to a TV instead of having to rely on the little one-line, 40-col. LCD display. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From computermedic at winesburg.com Tue Jan 8 08:24:56 2002 From: computermedic at winesburg.com (Douglas G. Wiedle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: IBM 5181001 Printer available Message-ID: <000301c19850$3eefe7c0$a2dd2cd0@medic> do you still have the printer? if so, how much? d.g. wiedle computermedic@winesburg.com From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Tue Jan 8 08:36:21 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: Spectravideo SV328 II (was:RE: VTech Laser 50?) Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0219EE@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Guerney [mailto:guerney@bigpond.com] > Sent: 08 January 2002 12:30 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Spectravideo SV328 II (was:RE: VTech Laser 50?) > > > I have a PSU here labelled FOR SV318/328 USE ONLY, so I do > not know about > the SV328 II. > > It is labelled Input AC 240V 50Hz 35 W (this is Australia!) > Output AC 16V 0.8A > Output AC 9V 1.5A Thanks Phil, that gives me 2 options to check later on. cheers -- Adrian Graham, Corporate Microsystems Ltd e: adrian.graham@corporatemicrosystems.com w: www.corporatemicrosystems.com w2: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Online Computer Museum) From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Tue Jan 8 09:18:03 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: Ceramic capacitor question Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0219F3@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> Another question from me :) The Compukit UK101 has several ceramic capacitors, all marked 104Z 25V, which judging by what I've found on the web so far makes them .1uF. My local Maplins (sorry, that seems to be a swear word in some parts) only has 224Z at 25V (I'd guess .2uF?) and 104Z at 50V, half the size. What can I get away with? Or am I right in assuming I need to match exactly? Ta for any help.... -- Adrian Graham, Corporate Microsystems Ltd e: adrian.graham@corporatemicrosystems.com w: www.corporatemicrosystems.com w2: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Online Computer Museum) From classiccmp at knm.yi.org Tue Jan 8 09:37:49 2002 From: classiccmp at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: Ceramic capacitor question In-Reply-To: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0219F3@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> Message-ID: Hi, > The Compukit UK101 has several ceramic capacitors, all marked 104Z 25V, > which judging by what I've found on the web so far makes them .1uF. My local > Maplins (sorry, that seems to be a swear word in some parts) only has 224Z > at 25V (I'd guess .2uF?) and 104Z at 50V, half the size. > > What can I get away with? Or am I right in assuming I need to match exactly? It's ok - I know how it is with maplin - can be hard to pick up bits and bobs these days, all the little stores are closing. I don't remember my capacitor markings that well, but you seem to have covered that. The voltage stated is a maximum working voltage, so you should use the 104Z 50V version, *not* the 224Z. Hope this helps :&) -- Matt --- Web Page: http://knm.yi.org/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ PGP Key fingerprint = 00BF 19FE D5F5 8EAD 2FD5 D102 260E 8BA7 EEE4 8D7F PGP Key http://knm.yi.org/matt-pgp.html From kentborg at borg.org Tue Jan 8 09:44:28 2002 From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: Ceramic capacitor question In-Reply-To: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0219F3@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com>; from Adrian.Graham@corporatemicrosystems.com on Tue, Jan 08, 2002 at 03:18:03PM -0000 References: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0219F3@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> Message-ID: <20020108104428.J31309@borg.org> On Tue, Jan 08, 2002 at 03:18:03PM -0000, Adrian Graham wrote: > The Compukit UK101 has several ceramic capacitors, all marked 104Z 25V, > which judging by what I've found on the web so far makes them .1uF. My local > Maplins (sorry, that seems to be a swear word in some parts) only has 224Z > at 25V (I'd guess .2uF?) and 104Z at 50V, half the size. > > What can I get away with? Or am I right in assuming I need to match exactly? I am not up to date on capacitor markings, but I will say that it is the capacitance that is important--that and the type of capacitor (which implies inductance, leakage, and I am not sure whatelse). The voltage is something you merely need to meet, exceeding it is OK. Assuming everything else matches, I'd go with the "104Z at 50V". -kb From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Jan 8 10:21:58 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: Ceramic capacitor question In-Reply-To: <20020108104428.J31309@borg.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Kent Borg wrote: > The voltage is something you merely need to meet, exceeding it is OK. > Assuming everything else matches, I'd go with the "104Z at 50V". > > > -kb > Quick lesson in capacitor markings: The number '104' indicates the capacitance, with the first two digits '10' being the 'mantissa' or value and the last digit being the exponent. Ceramic (and other caps marked like this) are all rated in pF or 10^-9 F. Therefore, this cap is 10x10^4pF or 100,000pF, or 0.10uF. The other capacitor, 224Z, would be 0.22uF (22x10^4pF). The 'Z' specifies a temperature range (IIRC) or something else that is not terribly important for most applications. -- Pat From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Jan 8 10:55:11 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: Ceramic capacitor question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > > > On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Kent Borg wrote: > > > The voltage is something you merely need to meet, exceeding it is OK. > > Assuming everything else matches, I'd go with the "104Z at 50V". > > > > > > -kb > > > > Quick lesson in capacitor markings: > > The number '104' indicates the capacitance, with the first two digits '10' > being the 'mantissa' or value and the last digit being the exponent. > Ceramic (and other caps marked like this) are all rated in pF or 10^-9 F. > Therefore, this cap is 10x10^4pF or 100,000pF, or 0.10uF. The other > capacitor, 224Z, would be 0.22uF (22x10^4pF). The 'Z' specifies a > temperature range (IIRC) or something else that is not terribly important > for most applications. > > -- Pat > > A few minor additions pf = 10^-12 F (10 ^-9 uF) Z probably stands for Z5U - the particular dielectric used. Z5U is a very temperature unstable material but with a high dielectric constant, often used for bypasses. Its so unstable that if you make an audio oscillator with a Z5U capacitor determining the frequency, you can hear the pitch change by just warming the capacitor with your finger... X7R is a newer, somewhat more temperature stable material used for bypasses. Peter Wallace From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Jan 8 11:31:56 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: Ceramic capacitor question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > > > > > > > On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Kent Borg wrote: > > > > > The voltage is something you merely need to meet, exceeding it is OK. > > > Assuming everything else matches, I'd go with the "104Z at 50V". > > > > > > > > > -kb > > > > > > > Quick lesson in capacitor markings: > > > > The number '104' indicates the capacitance, with the first two digits '10' > > being the 'mantissa' or value and the last digit being the exponent. > > Ceramic (and other caps marked like this) are all rated in pF or 10^-9 F. > > Therefore, this cap is 10x10^4pF or 100,000pF, or 0.10uF. The other > > capacitor, 224Z, would be 0.22uF (22x10^4pF). The 'Z' specifies a > > temperature range (IIRC) or something else that is not terribly important > > for most applications. > > > > -- Pat > > > > > > A few minor additions > > > pf = 10^-12 F (10 ^-9 uF) Oops should be (10 ^-6 uF) Peter Wallace From allain at panix.com Tue Jan 8 13:26:50 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: {Ceramic} capacitor Q & A's References: Message-ID: <003401c1987a$6c8a0060$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Quick lesson in capacitor markings:... Thanks for this. I bought one of those 1000 capacitors / $3.00 bags a few years ago and never quite knew what I had. And thanks for the corrections. If I may, here's a question. I have a ton of ?electrolytic? 'cans' so how do I chose the best cap for "Battery" style usage? (obviously not for constant voltage, its a cap) Some must be best at EG 60hz operation, and some for the longer charge cycles - just which ones? And does "forming" always help? John A. From CLeyson at aol.com Tue Jan 8 10:15:01 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: Ceramic capacitor question Message-ID: <50.493d05d.296c7506@aol.com> In a message dated 8/1/2002 Adrian Graham wrote >The Compukit UK101 has several ceramic capacitors, >all marked 104Z 25V,which judging by what I've found >on the web so far makes them .1uF. My local Maplins >(sorry, that seems to be a swear word in some parts) >only has 224Z at 25V (I'd guess .2uF?) and 104Z at >50V, half the size. >What can I get away with? Or am I right in assuming >I need to match exactly? Wow !! I remember the UK101, they were great fun :-) 100nF at 50V or 220nF at 25V in fine for supply decoupling caps, they're not that critical. Best Regards Chris Leyson From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Tue Jan 8 10:18:56 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: Ceramic capacitor question Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0219F8@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Kent Borg [mailto:kentborg@borg.org] > Sent: 08 January 2002 15:44 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Ceramic capacitor question > > I am not up to date on capacitor markings, but I will say that it is > the capacitance that is important--that and the type of capacitor > (which implies inductance, leakage, and I am not sure whatelse). > > The voltage is something you merely need to meet, exceeding it is OK. > Assuming everything else matches, I'd go with the "104Z at 50V". Thanks Kent & Matt - good job I asked since I went with voltage! Nice one. a From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Tue Jan 8 10:57:16 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: Ceramic capacitor question Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0219F9@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: CLeyson@aol.com [mailto:CLeyson@aol.com] > Sent: 08 January 2002 16:15 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Ceramic capacitor question > > Wow !! I remember the UK101, they were great fun :-) > 100nF at 50V or 220nF at 25V in fine for supply > decoupling caps, they're not that critical. > So if I stick with the ones I've got I should be fine? The UK101 is nearly all stock parts for easy replacement (as long as you don't go to maplins :) but I don't want to blow things...... cheers a From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Jan 8 12:06:40 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: Ceramic capacitor question In-Reply-To: References: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0219F3@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> from "Adrian Graham" at Jan 8, 2 03:18:03 pm Message-ID: <20020108230700.ICLQ22140.tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: Ceramic capacitor question > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 19:40:48 +0000 (GMT) > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > The Compukit UK101 has several ceramic capacitors, all marked 104Z 25V, > > Why do you suspect they're faulty (or why do you want to replace them). > Most of the time, ceramic capacitors are used for supply decoupling in > these machines, which is not a particularly critical application. And > ceramic caps tend to last quite a long time anyway. > > Yes, they can fail, but unless you have a supply line short or something, > I'd not suspect them. Feel free to suspect or not but I fixed a mysterious problem on a custom machine. Alldata used to sell whole machines for data pull up on vehicle info/parts/TSBs) machine based around peecee board (to be on topic I also repaired much eariler alldata machine around a atari ST1040,. 1MB, 68000 I think). Both use CD as medium for data pull up. Back to this peecee board, this one made rapid "reboots" or resets or like voltages going on/off every second. PSU design is kinda pulled off the shelf w/ HUGE external passive heatsink, noticed it has no PG signal except a small board wart bolted to PSU external casing. That little board has one 8pin IC. That IC is readily available and at power up, outputs comes up after certain time set internally by that IC and small components countable with one hand. Nothing else. Cause: small yellow coated ceramic capacitor looks good till unsoldered it off that little board, one leg fell off leaving a hole in the dipped package. BINGO! Cannot put in regular peecee PSU, this case is designed to be fanless and ventless to prevent dirt, shop's dirty stuff getting in. Requires 24V for thermal printer (like a fax printer) so repair that PSU is necessary. Cheers, Wizard From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 8 13:40:48 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: Ceramic capacitor question In-Reply-To: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0219F3@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> from "Adrian Graham" at Jan 8, 2 03:18:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1557 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020108/2eac3918/attachment.ksh From sipke at wxs.nl Tue Jan 8 18:33:05 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: Ceramic capacitor question References: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0219F3@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> Message-ID: <003201c198a5$35cdf380$030101ac@boll.casema.net> The 50V 104Z will work just as fine as the 25V type It simply wont blow as easely in case of an overvoltage event, but I'm sure some other devices on your board will! Sipke de Wal ----------------------------------------------- http://xgitor.ath.cx ----------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Adrian Graham To: Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 4:18 PM Subject: Ceramic capacitor question > Another question from me :) > > The Compukit UK101 has several ceramic capacitors, all marked 104Z 25V, > which judging by what I've found on the web so far makes them .1uF. My local > Maplins (sorry, that seems to be a swear word in some parts) only has 224Z > at 25V (I'd guess .2uF?) and 104Z at 50V, half the size. > > What can I get away with? Or am I right in assuming I need to match exactly? > > Ta for any help.... > > -- > Adrian Graham, Corporate Microsystems Ltd > e: adrian.graham@corporatemicrosystems.com > w: www.corporatemicrosystems.com > w2: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Online Computer Museum) From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Jan 8 19:24:04 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: More stuff to liquidate... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020108200731.0251b5f8@mail.30below.com> Yea, getting everything listed & ready has taken me a lot longer than I'd wanted -- and I'm still not there, but I have a few more things to put up on the list. 1) A Wyse-50 terminal, green CRT IIRC. NIB - only removed for viewing. No keyboard. Pre-packed in original box, so only shipping costs apply. 2) PC-Jr equipment. 1 full machine, w/2nd mobo, 2 keyboards, 1 PC-Jr. Monitor. may have more stuff for that, but haven't stumbled across it yet. Needs to be packed & shipped. 3) Here's a beauty I wish I could keep, especially after I popped the hood for a description. a "Network Computing Devices, Inc. System Base Model # 88k" - tis a skinny little critter which I'd assume to be an X-terminal, which sports as it's brain -- yep! A motorola 88100RC20. Yikes that's a big hummer! Also sports 5 72-pin memory slots (none filled), a PS2 keyboard, DE9 serial mouse, DB-25F "auxiliary" ?printer? port, and the monitor connector from hell - 26 pins, 3 rows in a female connector the size of an AUI port (don't remember the designation). On what looks to be a seperate card is the AUI port & DB25M RS232. Inside on that card looks to be a PCMCIA port. (it looks to be the right size, anyway...) ROM lables say (C) 1994, so it might be a bit OT, but I don't think anyone will mind... Needs to be packed & shipped, so I can get quotes on that tomorrow. 4) Fully Loaded Frankentari - a last known working Atari 800 that rose from the ashes of 2 dead units like a Phoenix, so the serial numbers won't match for you Corvette fans... Needs to be packed & shipped. [[Aside: DQ - did you still want the TI-99/4a's? I have pix on the web & had emailed privately, but didn't hear back... Lemme know, K? Thanks! ]] Sniff, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an *older* .sig. (circa 1997!) Why does Hershey's put nutritional information on their candy bar wrappers when there's no nutritional value within? From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 8 19:31:47 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3200SX Question In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146748E@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > ! From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] > ! > ! This process also works for alkaline batteries, since the > ! NiCad mess is also a strong alkaline. > > So, it sounds like this should fix up my AA battery size MagLite flashlite, > where the Duracell leaked in there... As long as the battery was Alkaline, it will work fine. Those cheap carbon-zinc based batteries are very difficult to clean up after, however. -Toth From dtwright at uiuc.edu Tue Jan 8 19:37:01 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: ; from doc@mdrconsult.com on Tue, Jan 08, 2002 at 06:46:25PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20020108193701.B1271799@uiuc.edu> yeah, I've heard they suck like that lately... Of course, what do you expect from a PC maker with painfully low margins? expensive as new SGIs are, I really haven't been able to beat their customer service, and it's fine as long as I'm not paying for the machines ;-) Doc said: > On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > Fresh P4 1.4 as shipped from Dell with NT on it. Not that I > > think much of Dell's quality anyway, but this machine didn't impress > > me at all. The CPU even arrived filthy but still sealed in it's box > > and inner bag. > > I try very hard to do business locally, even at the cost of a few > bucks. But Dell, after 2.5 years of doing business with them as a > representative of my UT dept, has lost my custom forever. We bought a > high-end workstation from Dell contingent on a hard delivery date. The > due date came, no box, our sales rep said it was on the burn-in bench > and would ship next day. Two days later, no box, our rep wasn't in, his > boss checked and said "We are on back-order for your 36G drives" He > didn't seem disturbed that the rep had lied to me. When I told him that > the order was contingent on a timely delivery, and that I would have > expected an email warning me that our order was delayed, he said this: > > "Mr. Shipley, it _would_ be nice if we could do that. However, we > don't have any mechanism in place for that, and you won't find any > first-tier OEM that does." > > Huh?! That was the last piece of business I'll EVER do with Dell. > > Doc - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jan 8 19:41:13 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <042c01c198ab$7c7ed140$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <042c01c198ab$7c7ed140$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: > > any mechanism in place for that, and you won't find >> any first-tier OEM that does. > >IIRC, IBM quoted me 6 business day delivery, and gave >in 4 calendar days. Twice. I think they knew their stuff. Even with warranty service, I've had excellent turn around times with IBM, Apple and Maynard. Earlier this year Apple had my Powerbook shipped to them, repaired and back in my hands in less than a week, including overnighting the shipping container to me so that I could send it back. Didn't Maxtor or Quantum buy Maynard 5-6 years ago? Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From at258 at osfn.org Tue Jan 8 19:56:20 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: Astronautics ZS-1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bill, maybe we can do a joint on this one. On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > > No, it isn't. But I just need a real commitment to wanting the hardware > > so I can negotiate with the company. > > I am on the verge of giving you a commitment. > > > It will take a couple of days for pictures. The two main racks are > > connected by _extensive_ cabling. I am doubtful that taking the two main > > racks apart is feasible. One of the main racks seems to be a standard > > 19" wide, the other main one looks to be about 30" wide. The third rack > > is a separate 19" wide unit. > > OK, sounds like truck material. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From at258 at osfn.org Tue Jan 8 19:58:22 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sounds like a good plan. It's becoming more feasible all the time. On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > > Well, I could possibly drive out and return with a truck. Possibly I > > could haul for Bill Donzelli if he's interested. It is on the way. That > > would save at least 2 ZS-1's. We could haul more, perhaps. Do you have > > docs on the ZS's? > > > > I am loath to fly, but it might be possible. I need to know if they are > > availbale to us, and then I could put the trip together. I did a > > truckload from VA/DC/NY just before Christmas. Probably 2 days out, lay > > day, load and 2 days back. Or 3. > > If we (Merle and I) are going to do this, I could roadtrip out to help > (after all, I want a ZS-1, and would not complain about a VAX-11/780, > either). I need to make a Chicago run soon, anyway. Merle could tag along > on the roadtrip all the way to Madison for the machine loading fun. It > would save you a airplane ride, and you would get to see all of the fun > stuff in the Midwest. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jan 8 20:11:31 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:22 2005 Subject: Some pointers needed on a 11/70 In-Reply-To: The Wanderer "Re: Some pointers needed on a 11/70" (Jan 8, 10:44) References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662D4@exc-reo1> <11147.194.134.214.183.1010002110.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> <10201030019.ZM14991@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C35BEEC.5A050014@xs4all.nl> <10201050159.ZM17916@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C378109.27924F6C@xs4all.nl> <10201060107.ZM18992@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C38B734.A8139727@xs4all.nl> <3C3A26A7.4DB3A12E@xs4all.nl> <3C3ABF66.7A80ED3E@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <10201090211.ZM22369@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 8, 10:44, The Wanderer wrote: > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > > OK. From what you've written there, and a few other places, I assume you > > have some manuals and/or printsets? > > Most of them, but from the MK11 memory box, only the MOS board and both > controller boards. That's a pity, bacause he manual for the MK11 system has a lot of troubleshooting flow charts -- too much for me to try to reproduce. And it has the setup instructions, of course. > > > > That's an unusual address, and it's only 32K bytes (16KW). You said > > you > > > > had two 64KW boards. What type are they? They probably have switches > > Are they M8728-AA or M8728-CA? The latter is only 16KW. The easy way to > > tell the difference, if there's no -A or -C beside the number, is that > > One is a '-AA' version, the other is a '-AC' one, and both are fully > populated. >From reading the manual, it looks like two arrays (M8728) is the minimum for the box. It might work with one, though. > There are no switches at the front of the box, unless you mean the > control panel > which contains the thumbwheel switches and a few other switches? Yes, that's what I meant. The three thumbwheel switches on the left set the start address of the box, in 32KW blocks. That's the smallest size you can have in a box, and since the arrays are either 16KW or 64KW I think you need to have at least two (but you can have an odd number, eg 3, after that -- it just won't do any interleaving). Anyway, set these three to zero. The other thumbwheel (?) switch sets the external interleave; it has to be set to zero unless you are interleaving between multiple boxes. Then the cards have to be in the correct slots. Looking from the front, slot 1 is on the right, and slot 26 is on the left, PSU regulators are at the back. The address buffer (M8158) must be in slot 13, the data buffer (M8159) in slot 15. The #0 Control A board (M8160) must be in slot 11 and the #1 Control A board in slot 16. The #0 Control B board (M8161) must be in slot 10 and the #1 Control A board in slot 17. The #0 controllers handle the even-numbered arrays, in slots 2...9; the #1 controllers handle the odd-numbered arrays, in slots 18...25. Slots 1,12,14,26 are not used. You must set the power-fail jumpers on the M8158. The manual says W1 out, W2 in; W3 out, W4 in. I'm not sure if that's always true. I don't know what you do if you don't want the battery backup! You must also put terminators on the outgoing connectors on the address and data buffers of the last box (the only box, in your case). These are H873 terminator packs, four altogether, one for each BC06R cable. The incoming cables go on J1 and J3 (nearest the long edge of the board), and the terminators go on J2 and J4. You MUST put the screws in the terminators, as that's how they get the power. The first array, #0, must go in slot 9, and the next, #1, in slot 18. Then work out from the centre if you ever add more. There must not be any gaps. If there are some 16K boards and some 64K boards, the 16K boards must all be before the 64K ones. > Do you have documentation on the data buffer board? This one does have 2 > switchbanks, and all are currently 'open'. Those 2 boards are the > only one for which I do not have any docs. I didn't see anything about switches on the data buffer. The address buffer is described as having three switches to set the CSR address of the box. For the first box, set address 17777100 by setting S1, S2, and S3 all closed. For the next box, open S1. For the third, open S2, close S1. And so on. Ech box uses two words for the CSR. > > It looks as though the box might be set to the wrong address -- 400000 > > is > > 131072 decimal, or 128K -- and is only showing 16KW (32KB) of memory. I > > don't know how you set the address of the box, though. > > I changed the size register on the 8143 to 32K, and it 'disappeared' > completely > from the system, i.e. no memory address was usable. The MK11 logic checks the address on the bus to make sure it's between the limits set by the size register in the CPU, and it's start address. If the address on the bus is less than the box's start address, or higher than the size register, it will not respond. > > Why do you think address 777644 is the diagnostics ROM start address? > > That was a mistake, I did mean 765744, which is spoken about in the > documentation. That's not an entry point! It's not even executable code, it's the ROM Identification word. It contains the ASCII characters "B0" to identify the ROM. The only entry points are: 773x04 to boot without diagnostics 773x06 to boot with diagnostics aaaaaa address dependant on the bootstrap ROM version, which jumps to 765564 in the diagnostic ROM 765564 JMP to start of diagnostics 765000 start of disgnostic code Obviously there are other points at which you could enter the diagnostics, but you'd need to set some things in memory and registers first. BTW, I discovered you can disable the cache by setting 000014 in the status register at 17777746. If the cache is faulty, but enabled, the memory box won't work properly, apparently. I don;t think that's your problem, though. More like a start address error. The first part of the troubleshooting flowchar starts by saying that you want to boot XXDP and run the MK112 diagnostic program :-) Well, obviously you can't do that, but it does say that if you can't boot, then first check ALL the power supplies (sound advice anyway). The next part of the flowchart goes like this: 1) Can you boot XXDP? If "no", is the memory box ON LINE? If "no", put it ON LINE and go back to (1) If "yes", is MEM PWR READY lit? If "no", "ZAP 200" [I have no idea what this means!] If "yes", suspect (in this order): BA11K regulator 7014251 battery backup regulator 11/70 Unibus problem If "no", reverse or replace the grey box control cable If "yes", is "UNCORR ERROR"? If "yes", go to next sheet [which is too complex to type] If "no", is there an "ADDR ERROR"? If "yes", suspect (in order): bad or loose BC06R cable address interface, M8158 11/70 cache fault If "no", halt CPU power memory box off power memory box on again Is there "CONFIG ERROR"? If "yes", install arrays properly suspect Control A (M8160) on right side If "no", is "SELECT PANEL" lit? If "yes", go to next sheet If "no", set "FORCE FRONT PANEL" Is it lit? If "no", suspect (in order): "Reset Box" control cable switch or light on box controller data buffer, M8159 If "yes", suspect (in order): data buffer, M8159 address buffer, M8158 Maybe this will be of some help. > > All the 11/70 tests halt on error [...] > > So having it loop until you stop it, and then halt at some address > > ending > > in 344 doesn't make much sense to me. I wonder if it was trying to store data in 000700...000706 (which it does at the very start of the diagnostics), getting a bus error (no memory), trying to access the trap vector at the bottom of memory, getting a bus error for that too, and just getting stuck until you halted it. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 8 20:16:43 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: Jumper settings needed for Heath H-27 disk controller In-Reply-To: <998FEBD9C16DD211881200A0C9D61AD70446894E@acdfwx3.acdin.de.ittind.com> Message-ID: <20020109021643.560.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Messick, Gary" wrote: > Ethan, > > I'm pretty sure I have a copy of the H-27 manual(s). Do you still need > them? What exactly are you looking for? I have an H-11 and H-27. They don't play nice together. I need to see a schematic so I can figure out why being in the interrupt chain wedges the CPU. I have no docs. I don't really need an assembly guide, unless it contains theory, too. Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jan 8 20:27:23 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: Some pointers needed on a 11/70 In-Reply-To: pete@mindy (Pete Turnbull) "Re: Some pointers needed on a 11/70" (Jan 9, 2:11) References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662D4@exc-reo1> <11147.194.134.214.183.1010002110.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> <10201030019.ZM14991@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C35BEEC.5A050014@xs4all.nl> <10201050159.ZM17916@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C378109.27924F6C@xs4all.nl> <10201060107.ZM18992@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C38B734.A8139727@xs4all.nl> <3C3A26A7.4DB3A12E@xs4all.nl> <3C3ABF66.7A80ED3E@xs4all.nl> <10201090211.ZM22369@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <10201090227.ZM22521@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 9, 2:11, Pete Turnbull wrote: > 10 and the #1 Control A board in slot 17. The #0 controllers handle the ^^^ That should be "B". That's what I get for using cut'n'paste too quickly :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 8 20:30:42 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020108182751.02c8c208@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Matthew Sell wrote: > Want some 8600's? I can get you a few. Where are you located? Yes! I'm in Austin, Texas. You mean, like, free? ;) Doc From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jan 8 20:41:50 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <200201082223.RAA12498@wordstock.com> from Bryan Pope at "Jan 8, 2 05:23:07 pm" Message-ID: <200201090241.SAA27012@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > P.S. When OS/2 came out, what really impressed me about it was its ability > to format a floppy disk and *NOT* slow down every other process running... I was amazed by the fact that floppy access on an Amiga does *not* slow the system either. It was merrily copying files around and everything was totally responsive. And this was on a original, ho-hum A500. Now, if we in the Commodore 64 world would only leverage that co-processor in the 1541/71 to do similar tricks in places other than loaders. I want to do something like this in the future, having it load apps while you do something else in the background, with no (perceivable :-) performance hit. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. -- Salvor Hardin ----------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jan 8 20:46:51 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Jan 8, 2 07:26:16 pm" Message-ID: <200201090246.SAA27098@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > But if you have a DE-9 PhoneNET adapter, that should go on your ISA > > > card just fine. Pre-DIN8 Macs had a DE9F for serial. > > > > Who would carry those? That would indeed take care of the whole problem. > > Fry's still has PhoneNET boxes but I don't think they have the DE-9 > > variety. > > Isn;t it just a connector change? Get the pinouts of the DE9 mac serial > port and the mini-DIN 8 and wire up an adapter that links the pins with > the same names. I'd rather buy it, for two reasons. First, I've never found a female DIN-8 port for sale (and not for lack of looking) -- that wasn't in something else, that is. Second, and more importantly, my soldering skills are zero. I know it's easy for a lot of you, but some of us are terminally all thumbs at even "simple" soldering tasks. :-) I'll look at sucking out the board EPROM and see if that gives me clues about how to build a LocalTalk frame. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. -- Euripedes ---------------- From mythtech at Mac.com Tue Jan 8 21:20:17 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk Message-ID: >First, I've never found a female DIN-8 >port for sale (and not for lack of looking) Not that it will matter, as you don't plan to build it anyway... but for reference... MCM Electronics (www.mcm-electronics.com) sells Female Din-8 (although, isn't that size really a mini-din?). Mini-Din, Din, either way, I know they sell them, as I bought a few a while back to replace the broken off serial ports on a PowerBook 160. The ones I bought were solder type, and meant to be used with a cable (so now my Powerbook has two short cables sticking out the back for the serial ports... no matter, it sits on a shelf acting as a nat router and backup mail server these days) -chris From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jan 8 21:34:32 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: from Chris at "Jan 8, 2 10:20:17 pm" Message-ID: <200201090334.TAA11246@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >First, I've never found a female DIN-8 > >port for sale (and not for lack of looking) > > Not that it will matter, as you don't plan to build it anyway... but for > reference... MCM Electronics (www.mcm-electronics.com) sells Female Din-8 > (although, isn't that size really a mini-din?). Not necessarily; the C64's video port comes in an 8-pin variety and they call that DIN-8 also. Much larger, however, than Mac Mini-DIN. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Apathetic dyslexic agnostic: "I don't care if there's a dog" --------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jan 8 21:04:14 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: VTech Laser 50? In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Jan 8, 2 09:40:21 am" Message-ID: <200201090304.TAA11076@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > Does anybody know anything about this thing? The local thrift shop > > > has one that they claim works (but they don't know how to work it), with > > > everything but an AC power supply. It comes with a very broken box, or > > > pieces of it, instruction manual and a Basic tutorial. The sticker on > > > the back says 1985. The console itself is cosmetically perfect. > > > > Is this a little LCD computer? If so, basically, that's all there is to it. > > I liken it to being an oversized Tandy Pocket Computer in approximate > > power and programmability. > > Yep, that's basically it. It has BASIC built in and I believe it has a > video out so you can hook it to a TV instead of having to rely on the > little one-line, 40-col. LCD display. The one I had had neither, something like 22-columns and no video out. I don't know where it went (it basically decided to go to the great inventory dump in the sky one day, and I can't seem to find where I put the 'corpse'). It could have been a different model. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Even if you win the rat race, you're still a rat. -------------------------- From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Jan 8 21:20:08 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: Astronautics ZS-1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Bill, maybe we can do a joint on this one. Not if it will stink up my van . William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From mythtech at Mac.com Tue Jan 8 21:24:38 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: More stuff to liquidate... Message-ID: >1) A Wyse-50 terminal, green CRT IIRC. NIB - only removed for viewing. No >keyboard. Pre-packed in original box, so only shipping costs apply. DANG! I need a Wyse-60 on the cheap... SO close :-( -chris From mythtech at Mac.com Tue Jan 8 22:00:27 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk Message-ID: >Not necessarily; the C64's video port comes in an 8-pin variety and they >call that DIN-8 also. Much larger, however, than Mac Mini-DIN. I meant isn't the Mac din size (the one I thought you were refering to since you were talking about building an adaptor for a mac telenet connector), isn't THAT a mini-din. I always thought the mac serial size (as well as things like ADB, PS/2, S-Video...) were Mini-Din, and things like MIDI, AT Keyboards, stuff like that was just plain DIN. It always made sense to me, since the two styles are very different in overall size... but then, I always thought a D shell 9 pin connector, as found on things like the Mac Plus mouse port, was a DB-9, where it is really a DE-9... so maybe the mini vs large dins have two different names too. I am fairly sure MCM also sells female DIN connectors in various pin counts, as well as the mini-din ones. -chris From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 8 22:01:49 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Chris wrote: > Not that it will matter, as you don't plan to build it anyway... but for > reference... MCM Electronics (www.mcm-electronics.com) sells Female Din-8 > (although, isn't that size really a mini-din?). Mini-Din, Din, either > way, I know they sell them, as I bought a few a while back to replace the > broken off serial ports on a PowerBook 160. The ones I bought were solder > type, and meant to be used with a cable (so now my Powerbook has two > short cables sticking out the back for the serial ports... no matter, it > sits on a shelf acting as a nat router and backup mail server these days) If you ever decide to replace these with the right connector, Mouser Electronics http://www.mouser.com/ or Digi-Key http://www.digikey.com/ should have the correct part. You might also want to check Jameco Electronics http://www.jameco.com/ There is a standard size Din-8 on the market, but it is not very common. -Toth From mythtech at Mac.com Tue Jan 8 22:22:49 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk Message-ID: >> Not that it will matter, as you don't plan to build it anyway... but for >> reference... MCM Electronics (www.mcm-electronics.com) sells Female Din-8 >> (although, isn't that size really a mini-din?). Mini-Din, Din, either >> way, I know they sell them, as I bought a few a while back to replace the >> broken off serial ports on a PowerBook 160. The ones I bought were solder >> type, and meant to be used with a cable (so now my Powerbook has two >> short cables sticking out the back for the serial ports... no matter, it >> sits on a shelf acting as a nat router and backup mail server these days) > >If you ever decide to replace these with the right connector, Mouser >Electronics http://www.mouser.com/ or Digi-Key http://www.digikey.com/ >should have the correct part. You might also want to check Jameco >Electronics http://www.jameco.com/ They have the part that solders directly to a board? As far as the right SIZE, the ones I have are the correct part... I was just unable to find ones that connected directly to the logic board, so I put short pigtails on the ones I found, and connected that to the logic board. It doesn't really matter much to me for the Powerbook 160, as I am never going to bother replacing them (it is no longer used as a portable computer, so the pig tails don't matter to me)... but if they have the correct part, I will keep them in mind for future purchases (I am bound to have to replace another one some day... I can guarentee that my boss will break the serial port on his current powerbook... just as he did with the 160 that I already fixed... I swear that guy kicks connectors into place!) -chris From mhstein at usa.net Tue Jan 8 22:28:10 2002 From: mhstein at usa.net (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS Message-ID: <01C1989C.26596F00@mse-d03> Do I gather from previous discussions that it's a problem reading an Apple II floppy disk on a PC? I'm about to get rid of my last Apple II clone (No, Ernest, I haven't forgotten you) but there are some Basic programs on Apple diskettes that I might want to port to GW-Basic some day. Trouble is, the Apple has no parallel or serial cards and I don't feel like copying them off the screen by hand. I think with a little software I could transfer it to one of my PETs via the cassette port, and from there it would be trivial to get to a PC, but I'm hoping there's an easier way. I have a CompatiCard I and Uniform, and I still have the T300 that no one wanted which can do 96TPI 640K MS-DOS diskettes as well as the usual MS-DOS 5.25 formats, if that's of any use. Any ideas? mike From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 8 22:37:05 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Chris wrote: > They have the part that solders directly to a board? As far as the right > SIZE, the ones I have are the correct part... I was just unable to find > ones that connected directly to the logic board, so I put short pigtails > on the ones I found, and connected that to the logic board. All three of those places have the right part. You might want to double check that the pinout is the same, but I imagine it is fairly standard. Jameco has a 6 pin mini-din that is pc mount for around $0.60 in single quantity, I think. -Toth From mythtech at Mac.com Tue Jan 8 22:37:48 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available Message-ID: >> Want some 8600's? I can get you a few. Where are you located? > > Yes! I'm in Austin, Texas. You mean, like, free? ;) Hey... if 8600's are up for grabs... I could use one (or two, or more if I can be greedy)... I'm in NJ (and willing to drive) -chris From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Jan 8 22:43:12 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS In-Reply-To: <01C1989C.26596F00@mse-d03> Message-ID: <200201090443.WAA17232@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > Do I gather from previous discussions that it's a > problem reading an Apple II floppy disk on a PC? > > I'm about to get rid of my last Apple II clone (No, > Ernest, I haven't forgotten you) but there are some > Basic programs on Apple diskettes that I might want to > port to GW-Basic some day. Trouble is, the Apple > has no parallel or serial cards and I don't feel like > copying them off the screen by hand. > > I think with a little software I could transfer it > to one of my PETs via the cassette port, and from there > it would be trivial to get to a PC, but I'm hoping > there's an easier way. > > I have a CompatiCard I and Uniform, and I still have > the T300 that no one wanted which can do 96TPI 640K > MS-DOS diskettes as well as the usual MS-DOS 5.25 > formats, if that's of any use. > > Any ideas? Buy a super serial card on ebay and use it to transfer the files. -Lawrence LeMay From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jan 8 22:47:59 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS In-Reply-To: <01C1989C.26596F00@mse-d03> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, M H Stein wrote: > Do I gather from previous discussions that it's a > problem reading an Apple II floppy disk on a PC? No PROBLEM, just impossible. There have been a few special boards that could be installed into a PC to do it. The Compaticard is NOT one of them. "Match Point" might be, as is Apple Turnover, and it's even theoretically possible to do it with the CopyII Option board (if you are willing to write a program comparable to the Apple OS file system. Same with Catweasel - theoretical possibility, but significant software needed but not available. > I think with a little software I could transfer it > to one of my PETs via the cassette port, and from there > it would be trivial to get to a PC, but I'm hoping > there's an easier way. Really? The PC can't do PET disks, either. But you MIGHT be able to interface one of the aftermarket IEEE488 drives to the Pet with some trivial hardware, and then interface it to the PC, and just write a file system for it. But, if you have a serial port on the Pet, then it'll be easy. Or maybe you could program the cassette port of a 5150? If you have an Amiga, and are willing to buy or write significant software, it can (in theory) do both Apple and PC. > I have a CompatiCard I and Uniform, and I still have Those will be nice for doing MFM diskettes. No help at all for GCR (Apple and Commodore). > the T300 that no one wanted which can do 96TPI 640K > MS-DOS diskettes as well as the usual MS-DOS 5.25 > formats, if that's of any use. If you DO figure out a use for it, let me know. Somewhere around here are a few of them. I patched PC-Write to run on it, but never came up with anything else to do with it. Eventually I gave one to Toshiba's MRI division, because they couldn't get one throught their main corporation. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 8 23:17:44 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: VTech Laser 50? In-Reply-To: <200201090304.TAA11076@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > The one I had had neither, something like 22-columns and no video out. I don't > know where it went (it basically decided to go to the great inventory dump > in the sky one day, and I can't seem to find where I put the 'corpse'). It > could have been a different model. Well, somebody more decisive than me is playing with the Laser. I went back this morning and it had sold. Bummer. Doc From donm at cts.com Tue Jan 8 23:11:34 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: <200201090246.SAA27098@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > > But if you have a DE-9 PhoneNET adapter, that should go on your ISA > > > > card just fine. Pre-DIN8 Macs had a DE9F for serial. > > > > > > Who would carry those? That would indeed take care of the whole problem. > > > Fry's still has PhoneNET boxes but I don't think they have the DE-9 > > > variety. > > > > Isn;t it just a connector change? Get the pinouts of the DE9 mac serial > > port and the mini-DIN 8 and wire up an adapter that links the pins with > > the same names. > > I'd rather buy it, for two reasons. First, I've never found a female DIN-8 > port for sale (and not for lack of looking) -- that wasn't in something > else, that is. Second, and more importantly, my soldering skills are zero. > I know it's easy for a lot of you, but some of us are terminally all thumbs > at even "simple" soldering tasks. :-) Yikes! I hope that surgery is not a part of your plans, Cameron! - don > I'll look at sucking out the board EPROM and see if that gives me clues > about how to build a LocalTalk frame. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. -- Euripedes ---------------- > From donm at cts.com Tue Jan 8 23:23:10 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS In-Reply-To: <01C1989C.26596F00@mse-d03> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, M H Stein wrote: > Do I gather from previous discussions that it's a > problem reading an Apple II floppy disk on a PC? Well, it is not really a problem. But absent additional hard/software, it is an impossibility. The Microsolutions MatchPoint card in conjunction with a specific version of UniForm will permit read/write of the Apple II format disks. That is about the only combination that immediately occurs that permits this. - don > I'm about to get rid of my last Apple II clone (No, > Ernest, I haven't forgotten you) but there are some > Basic programs on Apple diskettes that I might want to > port to GW-Basic some day. Trouble is, the Apple > has no parallel or serial cards and I don't feel like > copying them off the screen by hand. > > I think with a little software I could transfer it > to one of my PETs via the cassette port, and from there > it would be trivial to get to a PC, but I'm hoping > there's an easier way. > > I have a CompatiCard I and Uniform, and I still have > the T300 that no one wanted which can do 96TPI 640K > MS-DOS diskettes as well as the usual MS-DOS 5.25 > formats, if that's of any use. > > Any ideas? > > mike > > From mythtech at Mac.com Tue Jan 8 23:25:29 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk Message-ID: >All three of those places have the right part. You might want to double >check that the pinout is the same, but I imagine it is fairly standard. >Jameco has a 6 pin mini-din that is pc mount for around $0.60 in single >quantity, I think. Cool... thanks (and based on that price, looks to be cheaper than MCM... IIRC, I paid about $2 each for the mini-din 8 females that I bought) -chris From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Jan 8 23:56:47 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: References: <200201080355.TAA29390@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020108215533.04360cf0@mail.zipcon.net> RE-PC has a basket of the db9 phonenet style connectors, they run about $20 though :( repc.com may ahve them listed... they are in the tukwila washington store, and they're original apple, still sealed.... From ernestls at attbi.com Tue Jan 8 23:43:21 2002 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS In-Reply-To: <01C1989C.26596F00@mse-d03> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of M H Stein > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 8:28 PM > To: 'ClassicComputers' > Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS > > > Do I gather from previous discussions that it's a > problem reading an Apple II floppy disk on a PC? > > I'm about to get rid of my last Apple II clone (No, > Ernest, I haven't forgotten you) but there are some > Basic programs on Apple diskettes that I might want to > port to GW-Basic some day. Trouble is, the Apple > has no parallel or serial cards and I don't feel like > copying them off the screen by hand. > > I think with a little software I could transfer it > to one of my PETs via the cassette port, and from there > it would be trivial to get to a PC, but I'm hoping > there's an easier way. MIKE! Buddy! I keep trying to email you but your account is always full, or it just bounces back to me after three days. Anyway, I have a Super Serial card that you can use, and I can include a copy of ProTerm that might make moving these files easier for you. Contact me directly and we can discuss how to get these items to you. E. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Jan 8 23:58:06 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: Language and English References: Message-ID: <014201c198d2$9c341e60$b82fcd18@Smith.earthlink.net> > > I, too, find it of immense interest. I recall being taught that > paragraphs were indented 5 spaces. I also remember that this was not > universal, as there was another variation, called "block style" which was > not indented at all. > > I have been looking at a number of books, and noticed that some have a > single space between sentences, others two spaces. This occurrs in both > US and UK editions. I even noticed a German grammar in blackletter that > uses the double spaces, although it was US printed. I do notice, though, > that the double spacing enhances the readability of the text. > In a lawsuit I was involved in regarding an IEEE audio serial interface spec, the expert attempted to explain block/frame identifiers to a lay jury by analogizing them to punctuation identifying the beginnings of paragraphs and sentences. An indent indicated the start of a block (and the first frame in the block) and a period indicated the start of a frame (that was not the first frame in the block). Under this analogy, the spaces after the period were superfluous. From msell at ontimesupport.com Wed Jan 9 00:27:08 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020108182751.02c8c208@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020109002639.02931108@127.0.0.1> Doc, Shoot me a mail offline - msell@ontimesupport.com - Matt At 08:30 PM 1/8/2002 -0600, you wrote: >On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Matthew Sell wrote: > > > Want some 8600's? I can get you a few. Where are you located? > > Yes! I'm in Austin, Texas. You mean, like, free? ;) > > Doc Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From msell at ontimesupport.com Wed Jan 9 00:27:57 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020109002726.02900690@127.0.0.1> Chris, Send me a message offline.... msell@ontimesupport.com - Matt At 11:37 PM 1/8/2002 -0500, you wrote: > >> Want some 8600's? I can get you a few. Where are you located? > > > > Yes! I'm in Austin, Texas. You mean, like, free? ;) > >Hey... if 8600's are up for grabs... I could use one (or two, or more if >I can be greedy)... I'm in NJ (and willing to drive) > >-chris > > Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From rickb at bensene.com Wed Jan 9 00:38:35 2002 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: Even More HP2000 trivia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005601c198d8$45135fa0$0503eecd@bensene.com> The NAM command does indeed set a name for the workarea, but on the 2000C (and perhaps also the 2000B) the Timeshared BASIC manual explicitly states that , (comma) is an invalid name for a workspace. But, for sure on the 2000C (and perhaps on the B), this particular invocation (NAM-,) did something totally unpected. What was it? Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Web Museum http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bob Brown Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 10:54 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Even More HP2000 trivia If it works like a 2000/Access system, it names your work area, which you could then SAVe. -Bob From: Rick Bensene Here's one for the HP 2000 fans out there: On the HP-2000C Timeshared BASIC system, what would the following command do: NAM-, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020108/4371e7ac/attachment.html From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Wed Jan 9 01:40:19 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available References: <3C3AEBBD.AA5D731D@tds.net> Message-ID: <3C3BF3E3.9060807@aurora.regenstrief.org> Argh! I want the 11/780 gear! Madison WI isn't that far away, so that I could even personally get it. I'd love the one with the TU78 and the RP07 drives. If I come with a truck, I would load it with all I can get. I won't keep two 11/780s but I will pass stuff on. So, Jeffrey Sharp, we can help you out. Oh my, what am I going to do with my VAX6520 and the HSC90 and the other Dataproducts printer? -Gunther Jon Auringer wrote: > Hello all, > > Along with the Astronautics ZS-1 machines I posted about earlier, we > have some other equipment available. I have someone interested in one of > the 11/780 machines and possible others. As with the ZS-1 machines, the > time frame isn't very long. Again, we are closing this facility and the > equipment will be scrapped if not rescued. > > 1 DEC 11/780 (3 wide cabinet) currently up and running 4.2 BSD > 3rd cabinet has a Ven-tel plugin modem rack w/~10 modems > 1 rack containing 4 Fujitsu Eagle drives (one drive is off-line due > to increasing errors) > 1 Fujitsu 9-track tape drive in 2 wide cabinet (not quite as tall as the > VAX cabinet)(This is a nice auto loading drive, there is a second > one available with two drives from a non-VAX system) > 1 DEC TE16 9-track tape drive (1 wide cabinet) > 1 Fujitsu line printer > 1 DECWRITER III printing terminal as console > > 1 DEC 11/780 (3 wide cabinet) currently down but was running fine > when turned off (VMS) > 3 DEC RP07 drives (each the size of a washing machine on steroids!) > 1 DEC TU78 9-track tape drive > 1 Scicards design station (This is a dedicated color graphics > terminal used for printed circuit board (PCB) layout) > I am told the tube was a little on the fuzzy side. > 1 Benson photo plotter (we used this exclusively to print out PCB > artwork for checking) > 1 Dataproducts line printer > 1 DECWRITER III printing terminal as console > > 3 Valid Systems m68k based Multibus systems. Each system has several > dedicated mono graphics cards to drive multiple design stations. > Each system is in a half-height rack which contains the Multibus > rack, an 8" Fujitsu fixed disk drive and the slot loading 9-track > tape drive. I am unsure of the status of these systems. I believe > they were running when shut down, but I have doubts about the drives. > 6 or more of the Valid Scaldstation design stations. Each includes a > table with built-in digitizer and a 19" green monochrome graphics > monitor. These systems were used primarily for schematic capture, > but ran a full blown UNIX, so I always enjoyed reading news on the > "big screen". :) > > 1 Masscomp m68k based system > This system is also Multibus based and resides in a pair of 5' high > racks. One rack contains the multibus chassis and a pair of Fujitsu > drives. The second rack houses the 9-track tape drive and a third > 8" Fujitsu drive. This machine was only lightly used when I signed > on in 1989, and shut down shortly thereafter. I have gotten it up > and running RTU on its ST-506 boot drive, but haven't managed to > get the Fujitsus online. > > 7 Masscomp MC-500 deskside chassis > These are also Multibus based m68k systems. These run the same OS as > systems above. They have an internal 5-1/4" floppy and ST-506 fixed > drive. There are a bunch of the monochrome graphics tubes that go > along with these units. Actually, it appears like each chassis is > designed to drive a pair of the graphics terminals. I have one of > these boxes that I did a clean install of the RTU OS. The other 6 > are in varying states of repair. I think there are enough bits to > assemble at least 3 more complete systems. > > 2 DEC MicroVax II in a 19" > There is also a rack mounted chassis with a pair of SMD drives. > Each of the MVII has a SMD controller card. Both of the boot drives > are dead and I don't have a way to format replacements. I would > like to hang on to these if I can manage to get them home without > doing myself harm. > > 1 Tek 4014-1 graphics terminal w/hard copy unit. The terminal works > fine, but I haven't had a chance to test the hard copy unit. I would > like to hang on to this unit, but moving it is definately a two person > and a truck kind of thing. So I may have to let it go. :( > > ? StorageTek 9-Track drives. 110V operation. How many of these I have > depends on the fate of the ZS-1 machines. I have a couple now, and > will have several more if the ZS machines are scrapped. > > Large quantities of documentation. Over a dozen UNIX programmers > manuals in metal desktop racks. Complete documentation sets for VMS, > gray and orange binders. I have a box with complete unopened > docs for a later version (don't remember off-hand which version) of > VMS than we had ever installed. Documentation for several revisions > of SunOS4. If I were to walk through the building, I could easily > double this list. Basically we have just about everything! > > Thanks for listening, > > Jon > > Jon Auringer > auringer@tds.net > -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jan 9 00:53:01 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <200201090241.SAA27012@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200201082223.RAA12498@wordstock.com> from Bryan Pope at "Jan 8, 2 05:23:07 pm" Message-ID: >> P.S. When OS/2 came out, what really impressed me about it was its ability >> to format a floppy disk and *NOT* slow down every other process running... > >I was amazed by the fact that floppy access on an Amiga does *not* slow the >system either. It was merrily copying files around and everything was totally >responsive. And this was on a original, ho-hum A500. A few years ago just at the end of the BBS era, a new little software company came out with a Terminal package for the Mac that used their own serial port driver. I can't remember the name, but they buffered the port with some fairly nice code that ran I think during the "VBL" of the video interrupt. Not only was the throughput great, no gliches, but the big demo thing was to format a floppy during the downloading of a file. Market window was bad though, and I don't think they lasted even a year. From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Wed Jan 9 02:14:29 2002 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020108215533.04360cf0@mail.zipcon.net> from Geoff Reed at "Jan 8, 2002 09:56:47 pm" Message-ID: <200201090814.AAA18016@jill.ssl.berkeley.edu> > RE-PC has a basket of the db9 phonenet style connectors, they run about $20 > though :( repc.com may ahve them listed... they are in the tukwila > washington store, and they're original apple, still sealed.... Last time I was at Mike Quinn, (far too long ago) he had a bucket of DE-9 phonenet adapters. Eric From vaxman at earthlink.net Wed Jan 9 02:29:29 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik is THE MAN!!!! Message-ID: With only a single line patch, I've started the installation of Ultrix 4.4 under simH/VAX!!!! I wonder if anyone would notice if I called in sick tommorrow :) Clint From sipke at wxs.nl Wed Jan 9 03:18:53 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: Mini-Mini computer scans References: Message-ID: <004e01c198ee$a8ba3ae0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> JPEG only is lossy if you set the compressionrate above 10% Sipke de Wal ---------------------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > JPEG is a lossy imaging format. You lose detail with this format. > > Use something else! > From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jan 9 03:23:34 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: Looking for a couple of boards... Message-ID: I am looking for an ATI Graphics Ultra Pro MCA and an IBM Image-I Adapter/A. Let me know if you have one you can get rid of. Thanks. Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jan 9 03:29:56 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: "The Home Computer Course" published by Orbis, 1983 In-Reply-To: <135.760e405.296b1bd6@aol.com> Message-ID: Put it on eBay and see... Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 OMikeEdwardsO@aol.com wrote: > Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 10:42:14 EST > From: OMikeEdwardsO@aol.com > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: "The Home Computer Course" published by Orbis, 1983 > > Hello, > > I have the complete set (i think) in two grey binders. Does anybody know if > it is of any value? Is it collectable? > > Thanks, > > Mike Edwards > From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Wed Jan 9 03:46:22 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: Ceramic capacitor question Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0219FE@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> Hi Tony (and list), > Why do you suspect they're faulty (or why do you want to > replace them). They're physically broken :) Perils of parcelling up an open board without covering it sufficiently...... > will be fine. Actually, a lot of these caps will be between the +5V > supply and ground, so the Mapl 0.1uF 16V ones would do as > well. But I'd use the 50V ones. Yup; certainly all of the broken ones were between +5V and GND and I got them swapped over last night - 104Z 50V ones 'cos I found a parking space just round the corner from the shop on my way home, and I got 12 english pence back too :) This brings to mind a separate question that I'll post in a bit. cheers! a From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Wed Jan 9 03:51:55 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: Back to board washing for a moment Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0219FF@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Sent: 08 January 2002 19:34 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Back to board washing for a moment > > propan-2-ol (available from Maplin, or at least it used to > be. They call > it isopropyl alcohol). Dammit; I had a can of that in my hands last night and *put it back*. Duh. > Sometimes smoking can come from dry joints that are arcing. > By removing > the flyback and resoldering it, you've eliminated one > possible cause... Yup; I'm going to do that tonight. Last night was 'get the UK101s booting' night and I was *nearly* successful. > Annother cuase (which led me a merry dance once) is just dust > burning off > high power resistors that are _supposed_ to run hot. No > fault, other than > it needed cleaning... That's what started me off on the boardwashing thoughts, and you've also mentioned that in off-list mails. Doesn't help the fact that the VDU itself doesn't appear to work aside from heater glow, but it's one more thing crossed off the list :) a From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Jan 9 03:54:59 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available In-Reply-To: <3C3BF3E3.9060807@aurora.regenstrief.org>; from gunther@aurora.regenstrief.org on Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 02:40:19AM -0500 References: <3C3AEBBD.AA5D731D@tds.net> <3C3BF3E3.9060807@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <20020109105459.A10383@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 02:40:19AM -0500, Gunther Schadow wrote: > I'd love the one with the TU78 and the RP07 drives. RP07? Aren't that the data-washing machines with three phase power and D-Y[1] startup sequence? > Oh my, what am I going to do with my VAX6520 and the HSC90 > and the other Dataproducts printer? "Scotty, beam it to good old Germany." ;-) [1] I don't know how it is called in English, it is called "Stern-Dreieck Anlasser" in German. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Wed Jan 9 04:02:35 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: Compukit UK101 Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021A00@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> Hi folks, After the cap questions I got the new ones put back on my bare-board machine last night, re-socketed all the chips, resoldered the power connections etc (they looked a bit iffy) and switched on..... ....and got a screenful of garbage. Hmm. Then I hit both RESET keys..... and got a boot prompt! Woo! At this point I know I can either go into the Monitor or Basic or whatever (ROMS are on the board) but none of the keys would do anything apart from RESET. This made me connect up my other UK101 (with the lovely injection-moulded bright orange case :) and that one gets as far as the screen of garbage and won't reset. I'm suspecting keyboard problems on both machines, but if anyone can remember how they booted that'd be smart. I'm off to check the official UK101 web page to see if there's any tips there too. cheers! a From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jan 9 04:21:33 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: More stuff to liquidate... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020108200731.0251b5f8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > 3) Here's a beauty I wish I could keep, especially after I popped the hood > for a description. a "Network Computing Devices, Inc. System Base Model # > 88k" - tis a skinny little critter which I'd assume to be an X-terminal, > which sports as it's brain -- yep! A motorola 88100RC20. Yikes that's a big > hummer! Also sports 5 72-pin memory slots (none filled), a PS2 keyboard, > DE9 serial mouse, DB-25F "auxiliary" ?printer? port, and the monitor > connector from hell - 26 pins, 3 rows in a female connector the size of an > AUI port (don't remember the designation). Hey! I bet I've got the display cable to that! It's about 24 inches long, 26-pin male to 3bnc. (Why did they need 26 pins to get an RGB signal, anyway?) The only markings at all are the stamping along the cable insulator itself. The 26-pin connector has 9 grooves circling the body. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jan 9 04:22:36 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <042c01c198ab$7c7ed140$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, John Allain wrote: > > any mechanism in place for that, and you won't find > > any first-tier OEM that does. > > IIRC, IBM quoted me 6 business day delivery, and gave > in 4 calendar days. Twice. I think they knew their stuff. Yes, they do. My company does a lot of work on/with RS/6000s, and IBM has never let us down on a shipping date. They won't always get it here yesterday, though.... When that jerk laid the "first-tier OEM" line on me, I didn't know whether to laugh or call his momma names. IIRC, I just hung up, and then made a call to a friend whose wife is a VP in customer support there. It's a pity, though, because a Dell rep 5 years ago would never have treated a customer that way. Doc From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 9 04:55:35 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > Huh?! That was the last piece of business I'll EVER do with Dell. Dell service sucks donkey cock. Computers: good. Service: very bad. F Dell! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jan 9 05:08:26 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02Jan9.072430est.119207@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >Dell service sucks donkey cock. Computers: good. Service: very bad. We have a lot of problems with Dell's, especially their laptops. Both the Latitudes and Inspirons have started falling apart after very little use. Five years ago the quality was better but now I think their systems are junk. Any company that ships a custom built system covered in dirt doesn't need my business. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jan 9 04:38:42 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I wouldn't mind getting in a share of the driving. I want one of these too. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 17:09:45 -0500 (EST) > From: William Donzelli > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Cc: auringer@tds.net > Subject: Re: Re: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available > > > Well, I could possibly drive out and return with a truck. Possibly I > > could haul for Bill Donzelli if he's interested. It is on the way. That > > would save at least 2 ZS-1's. We could haul more, perhaps. Do you have > > docs on the ZS's? > > > > I am loath to fly, but it might be possible. I need to know if they are > > availbale to us, and then I could put the trip together. I did a > > truckload from VA/DC/NY just before Christmas. Probably 2 days out, lay > > day, load and 2 days back. Or 3. > > If we (Merle and I) are going to do this, I could roadtrip out to help > (after all, I want a ZS-1, and would not complain about a VAX-11/780, > either). I need to make a Chicago run soon, anyway. Merle could tag along > on the roadtrip all the way to Madison for the machine loading fun. It > would save you a airplane ride, and you would get to see all of the fun > stuff in the Midwest. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 9 05:03:16 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > The Microsolutions MatchPoint card in conjunction with a specific > version of UniForm will permit read/write of the Apple II format > disks. That is about the only combination that immediately occurs > that permits this. Are these still available somewhere? I just found another Copy II Option board today but I guess, according to Fred, I can't actually copy files FROM an Apple disk to the PC. Does it at least allow sector access on the Apple ][ floppy? What about the (Applied Engineering) PC Transporter? It's an Apple ][ card that allows you to connect up a PC drive to your Apple and transfer files. I think I have one somewhere. I also have a Rana PC<->Apple gateway box but I don't know if it works like the PC Transporter. I guess I should play with it someday and see what it does. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dokay at imscorporation.com Wed Jan 9 06:21:05 2002 From: dokay at imscorporation.com (Dan Okay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: Honeywell Level 6 Stuff Needed Message-ID: <000401c1990c$95101140$1f82080a@ims1> Yea, I might be able to help you. I have level 6 stuff too. thanks Dan Okay -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020109/2c3800f3/attachment.html From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Jan 9 06:32:49 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:23 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <200201081739.MAA08890@wordstock.com> References: from "Mike Ford" at Jan 8, 02 08:39:39 am Message-ID: <3C3C4681.17691.FD03A6E9@localhost> > > >> They do this annually, although a lot of the classic games are starting to > > >> drop off the list. I'll have to dig through my stack of magazines. > > >Shouldn't be a big deal to a CC-Member ... just setup a system as > > >described on the package and inset the disks :)) > > Minimum requirements are the easy part. The hard part is how new of a > > system breaks the game, with a minefield extending from W3.1 on a P90 to > > W98 on a PII 233 MMX. Support for games often drops suddenly, so that > > fairly dopey advances can be problems. Also locating updates from dead > > companies can be a task too. > > When a game comes out there may be literally hundreds of decent web pages > > with tips and information. A year or so later half a dead links, and many > > pages that do exist are stale (not updated) or hollow (file links are 404s). > > Kind of strange, with the really old games the problem is finding a working > > copy, and with the middle aged games its getting the copy to work. > There are utilities that slow down your computer. I believe there is even > one for Windows. I always thought windows was the designated slow down tool. SCNR At least in the PC area (and except the new Macs, this problem comes up only for games newer than designed for an AT) I usualy go for a machine around 150% the speed of the minimum requirements. So all classic home computer games, including games for an IBM PC(1), XT(2), AT, Atari or Amiga, I go for what the box says. For PC games requiring more newer than AT, up to Pentium 90 I use a regular 486/133, for all other I try my actual machine, and only if it doesn't work I go for something slower. It seams like most games of the 386/486 age will usualy run on actual machines, or at least up to 100 MHz Pentiums, while games of the Pentium age are quite CPU speed independant, in terms of capability to run on fast machines, not for performance on slow ones. Also, especialy from the older games, usualy only 'action' games are speed dependant - since my favoured genre are adventure/RPG games, I don't encounter to much problems :) Gruss H. (1) The PC/XT in question is a standard XT upgraded with a V20 and a Screamer board (2) In case of complex XT games, I usualy try also an AT -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 9 06:35:14 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <02Jan9.072430est.119207@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > We have a lot of problems with Dell's, especially their laptops. > Both the Latitudes and Inspirons have started falling apart after very > little use. Five years ago the quality was better but now I think > their systems are junk. Any company that ships a custom built system > covered in dirt doesn't need my business. I can certainly agree with this. I forget the exact model number, but I had to deal with warranty work on a Inspiron (Pentium II class) laptop about 4 months ago. The video module connector on the motherboard was defective/warped and the module was not plugging in properly. The person who bought this laptop had purchased the onsite/extended warranty, but Dell argued that they never sold the warranty to him, and that it was never even available for that model of laptop. In the end, I had to take the thing apart, and remove the memory upgrades that had been added, as well as remove all the drives, battery, etc and send the stupid thing off. All just to get a defective motherboard replaced...I actually tried to get them to just send a board so I could do a swap-out, (I had to take it apart anyway -- twice) and they claimed I was not "qualified" to do the work...I don't think I will ever recommend the purchase of another dell, nor purchase one myself. -Toth From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jan 9 08:38:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: from Don Maslin at "Jan 8, 2 09:11:34 pm" Message-ID: <200201091438.GAA09168@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > I'd rather buy it, for two reasons. First, I've never found a female DIN-8 > > port for sale (and not for lack of looking) -- that wasn't in something > > else, that is. Second, and more importantly, my soldering skills are zero. > > I know it's easy for a lot of you, but some of us are terminally all thumbs > > at even "simple" soldering tasks. :-) > Yikes! I hope that surgery is not a part of your plans, Cameron! It's not for lack of dexterity, probably more a mental block -- but you'll be relieved to know I'm not going into surgery. ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Why is it you can only trust short, dumpy spies? -- Hogan, "Hogan's Heroes" From bpope at wordstock.com Wed Jan 9 09:08:10 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: <200201091438.GAA09168@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Jan 9, 02 06:38:00 am Message-ID: <200201091508.KAA15008@wordstock.com> > > > > I'd rather buy it, for two reasons. First, I've never found a female DIN-8 > > > port for sale (and not for lack of looking) -- that wasn't in something > > > else, that is. Second, and more importantly, my soldering skills are zero. > > > I know it's easy for a lot of you, but some of us are terminally all thumbs > > > at even "simple" soldering tasks. :-) > > > Yikes! I hope that surgery is not a part of your plans, Cameron! > > It's not for lack of dexterity, probably more a mental block -- but you'll > be relieved to know I'm not going into surgery. ;-) > Speaking of DIN plugs... I had to buy an 8-pin to finally make my XE1541 cable... I cut off a few pins and *fit* the other ones to the correct places.. After having a lot of fun (NOT) with the soldering... I finally got it together *and* working.. :) And here is my follow-up question... Is there an *easy* way to get the cover off of a DIN plug without making anymore new scars in my fingers? Thanks, Bryan Pope From mythtech at Mac.com Wed Jan 9 10:03:12 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk Message-ID: >And here is my follow-up question... Is there an *easy* way to get the cover >off of a DIN plug without making anymore new scars in my fingers? At least the ones I've worked with, there is a small locking tab on the casing (kind of like a finger that drops into a hole). I stick a small flat blade screwdriver under that, and then push the cable (and connector by proxy) out. If there isn't a cable attached already, then I stick a screwdriver (usually philips) into the end where the cable would go, and push the insides out. -chris From classiccmp at knm.yi.org Wed Jan 9 10:29:55 2002 From: classiccmp at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, > >And here is my follow-up question... Is there an *easy* way to get the cover > >off of a DIN plug without making anymore new scars in my fingers? > > At least the ones I've worked with, there is a small locking tab on the > casing (kind of like a finger that drops into a hole). I stick a small > flat blade screwdriver under that, and then push the cable (and connector > by proxy) out. If there isn't a cable attached already, then I stick a > screwdriver (usually philips) into the end where the cable would go, and > push the insides out. Yeah - sometimes it's easier to press the little tab in and then rotate the outer plastic hood so the little metal tab isn't lined up with the hole. Then you can just pull out the centre without trying to press the tab down as well - stops you bending it too much :&) -- Matt --- Web Page: http://knm.yi.org/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ PGP Key fingerprint = 00BF 19FE D5F5 8EAD 2FD5 D102 260E 8BA7 EEE4 8D7F PGP Key http://knm.yi.org/matt-pgp.html From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed Jan 9 09:42:12 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467498@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! From: Mike Ford [mailto:mikeford@socal.rr.com] ! ! ! A few years ago just at the end of the BBS era, a new little software ! company came out with a Terminal package for the Mac that ! used their own ! serial port driver. I can't remember the name, but they ! buffered the port ! with some fairly nice code that ran I think during the "VBL" ! of the video ! interrupt. Not only was the throughput great, no gliches, but ! the big demo ! thing was to format a floppy during the downloading of a file. Market ! window was bad though, and I don't think they lasted even a year. Does anyone remember what this software package name is? Sounds like something I'd like to have & use... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jan 9 12:46:55 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467498@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: >! From: Mike Ford [mailto:mikeford@socal.rr.com] >! >! >! A few years ago just at the end of the BBS era, a new little software >! company came out with a Terminal package for the Mac that >! used their own >! serial port driver. I can't remember the name, but they >! buffered the port >! with some fairly nice code that ran I think during the "VBL" >! of the video >! interrupt. Not only was the throughput great, no gliches, but >! the big demo >! thing was to format a floppy during the downloading of a file. Market >! window was bad though, and I don't think they lasted even a year. > > Does anyone remember what this software package name is? Sounds like >something I'd like to have & use... I think it was called something like Snap, but it died so fast and had some kind of copy protection on the floppy, that it may be very hard to find. From dpeschel at eskimo.com Wed Jan 9 12:32:47 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: ; from mikeford@socal.rr.com on Tue, Jan 08, 2002 at 10:53:01PM -0800 References: <200201082223.RAA12498@wordstock.com> <200201090241.SAA27012@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <20020109103246.A12996@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Tue, Jan 08, 2002 at 10:53:01PM -0800, Mike Ford wrote: > >> P.S. When OS/2 came out, what really impressed me about it was its ability > >> to format a floppy disk and *NOT* slow down every other process running... > > > >I was amazed by the fact that floppy access on an Amiga does *not* slow the > >system either. It was merrily copying files around and everything was totally > >responsive. And this was on a original, ho-hum A500. > > A few years ago just at the end of the BBS era, a new little software > company came out with a Terminal package for the Mac that used their own > serial port driver. I can't remember the name, but they buffered the port > with some fairly nice code that ran I think during the "VBL" of the video > interrupt. Not only was the throughput great, no gliches, but the big demo > thing was to format a floppy during the downloading of a file. Market > window was bad though, and I don't think they lasted even a year. I actually owned a copy of that, and went to the same school as the author. He had written a BBS package as well (Mercury? At any rate, there was only one, or maybe a few, good Mac BBS packages at the time, so it shouldn't be hard to figure out which one he wrote). Rumors said that he had put back doors in the BBS package. The ZModem implementation in the terminal package didn't seem to work very well with the VAX version (which, I believe, was the real thing written by Omen). There seem to be more wrong versions of ZModem out there than right ones. I don't know if it's the fault of lazy authors or of Omen (for not making the spec public, or having weird marketing policies). -- Derek From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jan 9 11:56:10 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <20020109103246.A12996@eskimo.eskimo.com> References: <200201082223.RAA12498@wordstock.com> <200201090241.SAA27012@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <20020109103246.A12996@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <02Jan9.141217est.119373@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >The ZModem implementation in the terminal package didn't seem to work >very well with the VAX version (which, I believe, was the real thing written >by Omen). There seem to be more wrong versions of ZModem out there than >right ones. I don't know if it's the fault of lazy authors or of Omen >(for not making the spec public, or having weird marketing policies). It looks like the DOS users of the late 80's had it good in that respect then since most of them used the same Zmodem external protocal executable. I was running a BBS on an XT using QuickBBS at the time and my terminal program of choice was Telix 2.12. It didn't have an internal Zmodem yet so I wrote a small compiled BASIC program which asked for the various info that Zmodem expected on the command line and then passed the info to it. This small program was called from within Telix and I was constantly modifying it to add support for whatever new and odd protocals would appear. I stuck with that version of Telix for quite a long time just because it was smaller and faster than the later versions. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jan 9 12:39:03 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jan 09, 2002 02:55:35 AM Message-ID: <200201091839.g09Id3212537@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > Huh?! That was the last piece of business I'll EVER do with Dell. > > Dell service sucks donkey cock. Computers: good. Service: very bad. > > F Dell! I have a Dell Inspiron 8000 that works very well. I've had excellent results when I've had to call in for service. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 9 13:34:33 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <200201091839.g09Id3212537@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > Huh?! That was the last piece of business I'll EVER do with Dell. > > > > Dell service sucks donkey cock. Computers: good. Service: very bad. > > > > F Dell! > > I have a Dell Inspiron 8000 that works very well. I've had > excellent results when I've had to call in for service. It would seem the majority of people I confer with have nothing but pain and anguish leading to murderous thoughts when dealing with Dell. F Dell and it's namesake! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From curt at atari-history.com Wed Jan 9 14:03:17 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? References: Message-ID: <00d301c19948$c2694b20$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Oh yeah!!! My father in-law bought a Dell (against my advice) and the motherboard went bad, tech support actually had my father in-law (who has trouble working a garage door opener, never mind a computer) open the unit up, pull the thing apart (all the carpet of his office nonetheless) to troubleshoot the unit and only after he nearly couldn't get the thing back together and in a panic called me to come over to do it for him, did Dell finally send their "Technician" out to fix the unit, Technician is so loosely associated as a definition for the person who actually showed up as one can imagine. The man spoke not a lick of english (not a bad thing except when a customer in a US speaking country may have questions and such as to what this person is doing) and basically got on the phone and stayed on it for the next hour and a 1/2 while they instructed him on replacing the motherboard, CPU and memory of the box (all apparently were bad) then when the unit failed POST, he replaced the Power Supply (most likely the culprit in the first place) and only then did the system finally come back up and work properly (the original problem was this 500mhz Pentium III hunk o junk ran slower then his original 90mhz Pentium I system) Just the thought of having a non-technical layman open a computer, spread it out over a carpet and make them fix the problem with a person over the phone is unexcusable, then to send a "body" which was all this person obviously was to spend an hour and 1/2 on the phone being talked through what to do was just ridiculous. This is Dell's Award Winning Service and Support?!?!? Maybe "Stevie" should do a new commercial at the end, instead of giving a thumbs up, he should look into the camera and give the finger and say "Gonna Get'n dicked over dude!!!" Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 2:34 PM Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? > On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > > Huh?! That was the last piece of business I'll EVER do with Dell. > > > > > > Dell service sucks donkey cock. Computers: good. Service: very bad. > > > > > > F Dell! > > > > I have a Dell Inspiron 8000 that works very well. I've had > > excellent results when I've had to call in for service. > > It would seem the majority of people I confer with have nothing but pain > and anguish leading to murderous thoughts when dealing with Dell. > > F Dell and it's namesake! > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jan 9 14:14:33 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jan 09, 2002 11:34:33 AM Message-ID: <200201092014.g09KEXR12934@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > > Huh?! That was the last piece of business I'll EVER do with Dell. > > > > > > Dell service sucks donkey cock. Computers: good. Service: very bad. > > > > > > F Dell! > > > > I have a Dell Inspiron 8000 that works very well. I've had > > excellent results when I've had to call in for service. > > It would seem the majority of people I confer with have nothing but pain > and anguish leading to murderous thoughts when dealing with Dell. > > F Dell and it's namesake! I wonder why the disparity exists? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 9 15:44:54 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <200201092014.g09KEXR12934@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > F Dell and it's namesake! > > I wonder why the disparity exists? You're the one lucky Dell customer who's never had a problem (yet). F DELL! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jan 9 16:00:27 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jan 09, 2002 01:44:54 PM Message-ID: <200201092200.g09M0RA13378@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > F Dell and it's namesake! > > > > I wonder why the disparity exists? > > You're the one lucky Dell customer who's never had a problem (yet). No, I've had the miniPCI MODEM replaced as my system was shipped with the Actiontec and I had specified the 3Com, so Dell sent a tech to swap the card. I also had the SXGA+ screen replaced twice. The first screen developed a flicker, so they sent a tech to replace the screen. I didn't the the second screen looked even, so they had a second screen replacement installed. I didn't have to make up any excuse, I just told tech support I was unhappy with the way the LCD looked. Finally, I had a problem with the mouse developing a mind of its own. The keyboard (with built-in eraser-head pointer) was replaced, and when the problem reoccurred they sent a new palmrest (which has the touchpad built-in), which fixed the problem. Each time the techs arrived the next day, with the replacement part and tools, and the techs (I've had three different techs) all knew what they were doing. All this in the past year, so this isn't my experience from some time ago. So yes, I've had problems, and yes, Dell did give me outstanding support and service. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 9 14:46:34 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <200201090241.SAA27012@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <20020109204634.99875.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> --- Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > P.S. When OS/2 came out, what really impressed me about it was its > > ability to format a floppy disk and *NOT* slow down every other process > > running... > > I was amazed by the fact that floppy access on an Amiga does *not* slow > the system either. It was merrily copying files around and everything > was totally responsive. And this was on a original, ho-hum A500. Sort-of. If you were at the regular Workbench screen, two bitplanes, yes. There's ample DMA bandwidth for video and floppy. If you were trying to do floppy operations from an application that was running a 4-bitplane Hi-res screen, that would give you problems. I'm pretty sure that Wintel machines have problems with trying to walk and chew gum at the same time because the low-level routines suck - they block for I/O, because, why would you *need* to do two things at once, anyway? PeeCee floppies will do DMA, but I think the BIOS driver waits for the DMA to complete before twiddling the control lines. The Amiga, OTOH, was designed to keep things rolling; its drivers don't lock up the machine waiting for an I/O to complete. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jan 9 15:28:04 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? References: <20020109204634.99875.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C3CB5E4.AEFD29E3@jetnet.ab.ca> Ethan Dicks wrote: > I'm pretty sure that Wintel machines have problems with trying to > walk and chew gum at the same time because the low-level routines > suck - they block for I/O, because, why would you *need* to do two > things at once, anyway? PeeCee floppies will do DMA, but I think > the BIOS driver waits for the DMA to complete before twiddling the > control lines. The Amiga, OTOH, was designed to keep things rolling; > its drivers don't lock up the machine waiting for an I/O to complete. Not all PC's used DMA for the the floppies. Radio Shacks PC did not. Yet oddly enough the Amiga does not have a keyboard pressed OS function to tell if you have keyboard input. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 9 16:04:04 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <3C3CB5E4.AEFD29E3@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > Not all PC's used DMA for the the floppies. Radio Shacks PC did not. Also the PC-Jr That similarity occasionally leads to mistaken assumptions that all aspects are the same. From mythtech at Mac.com Wed Jan 9 15:16:10 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? Message-ID: >> It would seem the majority of people I confer with have nothing but pain >> and anguish leading to murderous thoughts when dealing with Dell. >> >> F Dell and it's namesake! > >I wonder why the disparity exists? Maybe because once upon a time, Dell's were actually good. For some time, I had recommended them. Their PCs were tanks. You could beat the hell out of them, and they kept working. And they were good solid components that worked with default installs of windows 95 and NT 4. Support was even once great (knowledgeable, polite, fast). And then they grew... and cut costs to stay in business... and went into the crapper like just about every other consumer PC company. Now, when people tell me they are going to buy a PC, and ask who I recommend... I tell them with a straight honest face... I recommend NO ONE for home use. I can't honestly think of a single good company building consumer level windows boxes. Between them all putting in cheaper and cheaper parts, and MS making windows... well more windows like, I can't think of any company that can get it right, and get it right consistently. So now I ask people WHY they are buying a windows PC. Everyone seems to have one of two answers. 1: to play games (I tell them to buy a Playstation 2), or 2: to get online (I tell them to buy a cheap used low end PII and throw a ton of ram into it). Everyone that doesn't fit one of those two... I tell them to learn enough to build their own, or just go with a cheap LOCAL vendor (so you have someone you can throw the machine at when it craps out for the 100th time), or buy a Macintosh. -chris From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jan 9 15:52:43 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: from "Chris" at Jan 09, 2002 04:16:10 PM Message-ID: <200201092152.g09Lqhx13324@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >> It would seem the majority of people I confer with have nothing but pain > >> and anguish leading to murderous thoughts when dealing with Dell. > >> > >> F Dell and it's namesake! > > > >I wonder why the disparity exists? > > Maybe because once upon a time, Dell's were actually good. But the disparity exists today. My Inspiron 8000 is just over a year old, and the last time I called for service was just two weeks ago, and the service was outstanding. I called just after 6:00PM CST and the tech arrived to replace the part the next day around 3:30PM. The part had to be shipped to the tech as well, so I'd call that pretty good service. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From djenner at earthlink.net Wed Jan 9 16:02:19 2002 From: djenner at earthlink.net (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? References: <200201092014.g09KEXR12934@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3C3CBDEB.C1606DA3@earthlink.net> I've had a Dell Inspiron 7500 laptop for almost two years now. It is a fantastic machine. When I purchased it, I got it with 3 years of on-site warranty for an additional $100 or so. I have: 1) swapped out a noisy hard drive without any hassle from Dell. 2) had a tech come to my house and, without looking at any instructions, flawlessly completely disassemble the machine, replacing a suspected motherboard (it turned out it wasn't the culprit), and reassemble it, again without looking at any instructions. Having myself quite a bit of experience with hardware, especially old laptops, I was amazed at his competency. It has worked flawlessly since for over a year now. It is such a good machine that I anticipate it will still be my main "modern" machine a couple of years from now. Those who aren't willing or able to pay a few extra dollars for extended warranty may be making a mistake. And it's usually those who yell and curse who get the most attention. So, G*d D**m, Dell makes an excellent computer. And their F***ing service is the best I have ever seen! Dave Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > > > Huh?! That was the last piece of business I'll EVER do with Dell. > > > > > > > > Dell service sucks donkey cock. Computers: good. Service: very bad. > > > > > > > > F Dell! > > > > > > I have a Dell Inspiron 8000 that works very well. I've had > > > excellent results when I've had to call in for service. > > > > It would seem the majority of people I confer with have nothing but pain > > and anguish leading to murderous thoughts when dealing with Dell. > > > > F Dell and it's namesake! > > I wonder why the disparity exists? > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ -- David C. Jenner djenner@earthlink.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 9 15:18:09 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: Compukit UK101 In-Reply-To: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021A00@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> from "Adrian Graham" at Jan 9, 2 10:02:35 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2672 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020109/3886bf59/attachment.ksh From quapla at xs4all.nl Wed Jan 9 15:42:57 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: Some pointers needed on a 11/70 References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662D4@exc-reo1> <11147.194.134.214.183.1010002110.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> <10201030019.ZM14991@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C35BEEC.5A050014@xs4all.nl> <10201050159.ZM17916@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C378109.27924F6C@xs4all.nl> <10201060107.ZM18992@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C38B734.A8139727@xs4all.nl> <3C3A26A7.4DB3A12E@xs4all.nl> <3C3ABF66.7A80ED3E@xs4all.nl> <10201090211.ZM22369@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3C3CB961.8688B15E@xs4all.nl> Hello Pete, I checked the config of the memory box, and it was already configured according to your notes. I also was lucky enough to find engineering diagrams of the data buffer and the address buffer in a pile of misc diagrams of which i thought I didn't have anymore. It contains some usefull info but probably much less than the MK11 users guide. BTW, the thumbwheel switches are all set to 0. On the M8158, jumpers w1 & w3 are out, w2 and w4 are in. According to the eng. diag., these bypass a small circuitry which would otherwise generate the ACLO & DCLO, presumably when the powerfail circuit has a problem? As a side note, there are no battery packs in this config. I have now set the system size register to all off, this then sets the max memory to 2048MW. From an archive article I read it says that this register can have an higher setting that there is actual memory in the box, but that the system will only address up to the actual available limit (which makes sense). Odd enough, when I changed the SSR, the memory starts now at 1400000 and runs through 1477777, very odd. Tomorrow I'll step through all the entries listed in your last mail, it may very well be the case that the address and/or data buffer of the memory box are faulty, in which case I have to get a new one. Ed Pete Turnbull wrote: > > On Jan 8, 10:44, The Wanderer wrote: > > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > > > > OK. From what you've written there, and a few other places, I assume > you > > > have some manuals and/or printsets? > > > > Most of them, but from the MK11 memory box, only the MOS board and both > > controller boards. > > That's a pity, bacause he manual for the MK11 system has a lot of > troubleshooting flow charts -- too much for me to try to reproduce. And > it has the setup instructions, of course. > > > > > > That's an unusual address, and it's only 32K bytes (16KW). You said > > > you > > > > > had two 64KW boards. What type are they? They probably have > switches > > > Are they M8728-AA or M8728-CA? The latter is only 16KW. The easy way to > > > tell the difference, if there's no -A or -C beside the number, is that > > > > One is a '-AA' version, the other is a '-AC' one, and both are fully > > populated. > > >From reading the manual, it looks like two arrays (M8728) is the minimum > for the box. It might work with one, though. > > > There are no switches at the front of the box, unless you mean the > > control panel > > which contains the thumbwheel switches and a few other switches? > > Yes, that's what I meant. The three thumbwheel switches on the left set > the start address of the box, in 32KW blocks. That's the smallest size you > can have in a box, and since the arrays are either 16KW or 64KW I think you > need to have at least two (but you can have an odd number, eg 3, after that > -- it just won't do any interleaving). Anyway, set these three to zero. > > The other thumbwheel (?) switch sets the external interleave; it has to be > set to zero unless you are interleaving between multiple boxes. > > Then the cards have to be in the correct slots. Looking from the front, > slot 1 is on the right, and slot 26 is on the left, PSU regulators are at > the back. > > The address buffer (M8158) must be in slot 13, the data buffer (M8159) in > slot 15. The #0 Control A board (M8160) must be in slot 11 and the #1 > Control A board in slot 16. The #0 Control B board (M8161) must be in slot > 10 and the #1 Control A board in slot 17. The #0 controllers handle the > even-numbered arrays, in slots 2...9; the #1 controllers handle the > odd-numbered arrays, in slots 18...25. Slots 1,12,14,26 are not used. > > You must set the power-fail jumpers on the M8158. The manual says W1 out, > W2 in; W3 out, W4 in. I'm not sure if that's always true. I don't know > what you do if you don't want the battery backup! > > You must also put terminators on the outgoing connectors on the address and > data buffers of the last box (the only box, in your case). These are H873 > terminator packs, four altogether, one for each BC06R cable. The incoming > cables go on J1 and J3 (nearest the long edge of the board), and the > terminators go on J2 and J4. You MUST put the screws in the terminators, > as that's how they get the power. > > The first array, #0, must go in slot 9, and the next, #1, in slot 18. Then > work out from the centre if you ever add more. There must not be any gaps. > If there are some 16K boards and some 64K boards, the 16K boards must all > be before the 64K ones. > > > Do you have documentation on the data buffer board? This one does have 2 > > switchbanks, and all are currently 'open'. Those 2 boards are the > > only one for which I do not have any docs. > > I didn't see anything about switches on the data buffer. The address > buffer is described as having three switches to set the CSR address of the > box. For the first box, set address 17777100 by setting S1, S2, and S3 all > closed. For the next box, open S1. For the third, open S2, close S1. And > so on. Ech box uses two words for the CSR. > > > > It looks as though the box might be set to the wrong address -- 400000 > > > is > > > 131072 decimal, or 128K -- and is only showing 16KW (32KB) of memory. I > > > don't know how you set the address of the box, though. > > > > I changed the size register on the 8143 to 32K, and it 'disappeared' > > completely > > from the system, i.e. no memory address was usable. > > The MK11 logic checks the address on the bus to make sure it's between the > limits set by the size register in the CPU, and it's start address. If the > address on the bus is less than the box's start address, or higher than the > size register, it will not respond. > > > > Why do you think address 777644 is the diagnostics ROM start address? > > > > That was a mistake, I did mean 765744, which is spoken about in the > > documentation. > > That's not an entry point! It's not even executable code, it's the ROM > Identification word. It contains the ASCII characters "B0" to identify the > ROM. The only entry points are: > > 773x04 to boot without diagnostics > 773x06 to boot with diagnostics > aaaaaa address dependant on the bootstrap ROM version, which jumps > to 765564 in the diagnostic ROM > 765564 JMP to start of diagnostics > 765000 start of disgnostic code > > Obviously there are other points at which you could enter the diagnostics, > but you'd need to set some things in memory and registers first. > > BTW, I discovered you can disable the cache by setting 000014 in the status > register at 17777746. If the cache is faulty, but enabled, the memory box > won't work properly, apparently. I don;t think that's your problem, > though. More like a start address error. > > The first part of the troubleshooting flowchar starts by saying that you > want to boot XXDP and run the MK112 diagnostic program :-) Well, obviously > you can't do that, but it does say that if you can't boot, then first check > ALL the power supplies (sound advice anyway). > > The next part of the flowchart goes like this: > > 1) Can you boot XXDP? > If "no", is the memory box ON LINE? > If "no", put it ON LINE and go back to (1) > If "yes", is MEM PWR READY lit? > If "no", "ZAP 200" [I have no idea what this means!] > If "yes", suspect (in this order): > BA11K regulator > 7014251 battery backup regulator > 11/70 Unibus problem > If "no", > reverse or replace the grey box control cable > If "yes", is "UNCORR ERROR"? > If "yes", go to next sheet [which is too complex to type] > If "no", is there an "ADDR ERROR"? > If "yes", suspect (in order): > bad or loose BC06R cable > address interface, M8158 > 11/70 cache fault > If "no", halt CPU > power memory box off > power memory box on again > Is there "CONFIG ERROR"? > If "yes", > install arrays properly > suspect Control A (M8160) on right side > If "no", is "SELECT PANEL" lit? > If "yes", go to next sheet > If "no", set "FORCE FRONT PANEL" > Is it lit? > If "no", suspect (in order): > "Reset Box" control cable > switch or light on box controller > data buffer, M8159 > If "yes", suspect (in order): > data buffer, M8159 > address buffer, M8158 > > Maybe this will be of some help. > > > > All the 11/70 tests halt on error > [...] > > > So having it loop until you stop it, and then halt at some address > > > ending > > > in 344 doesn't make much sense to me. > > I wonder if it was trying to store data in 000700...000706 (which it does > at the very start of the diagnostics), getting a bus error (no memory), > trying to access the trap vector at the bottom of memory, getting a bus > error for that too, and just getting stuck until you halted it. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Kilometerheffing : De overheid '97 TL1000S | weet waar je bent geweest! From quapla at xs4all.nl Wed Jan 9 16:03:37 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: Looking for a CR11 manual Message-ID: <3C3CBE39.F759E125@xs4all.nl> Hello All, Is there someone on the list who can supply me with a photocopy of the wiring diagram of the cable used between the reader and the interface? I need to fabricate the cable. If you have some punched cards as well to spare that would be great! Thanks, Ed -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Kilometerheffing : De overheid '97 TL1000S | weet waar je bent geweest! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 9 14:49:31 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: Ceramic capacitor question In-Reply-To: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0219FE@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> from "Adrian Graham" at Jan 9, 2 09:46:22 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 766 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020109/faf2a9b4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 9 14:37:21 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: from "Doc" at Jan 8, 2 06:46:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1556 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020109/49f73f97/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 9 14:40:55 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: <200201090246.SAA27098@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Jan 8, 2 06:46:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1032 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020109/21c6b334/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 9 14:44:35 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: from "Chris" at Jan 8, 2 10:20:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1018 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020109/99e02a61/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 9 14:46:47 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: from "Chris" at Jan 8, 2 11:00:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 966 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020109/334b568f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 9 15:52:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: <200201091508.KAA15008@wordstock.com> from "Bryan Pope" at Jan 9, 2 10:08:10 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 937 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020109/6a2ce53f/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jan 9 12:58:14 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: WTB: Tandy items Message-ID: <02Jan9.151420est.119067@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> I was wondering if anyone might have any of the following Tandy catalog numbered items in their piles: TV/Joystick board (26-5142) Vianet networking board (26-1220 or 26-1221) DCS interface kit/board (26-5147) All of these boards are for the Model 2000 and have the 96pin euroconnector. The DCS is the interface board for the early Iomega Bernoulli drives. Truth be told, I wouldn't be picky if someone had anything related to the Model 2000 to offer up! Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From RCini at congressfinancial.com Wed Jan 9 11:15:41 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: PLD help Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E587A109@MAIL10> Hello, all: Well, I'm picking up the 6502 SBC project that I started last year. To reduce chip count I'd like to use Atmel PLDs for address decoding. I downloaded some app notes from Atmel's web site but are there any practical tips for using/programming these devices for use in a hobbyist project? Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) From CLeyson at aol.com Wed Jan 9 13:03:27 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: PLD help Message-ID: <27.20f3ba40.296dedff@aol.com> In a message dated 09/01/02 RCini@congressfinancial.com writes: > Hello, all: > > Well, I'm picking up the 6502 SBC project that I started last year. > To reduce chip count I'd like to use Atmel PLDs for address decoding. I > downloaded some app notes from Atmel's web site but are there any practical > tips for using/programming these devices for use in a hobbyist project? > > Rich > Hi Rich I've used the MAX3000 series CPLD's, one problem I did find with these devices is that the top mosfet in the output stage is an N channel device. If you need to drive logic with CMOS input levels you could run into difficulty. Pull-up resistors may be required. I couldn't drive logic level mosfets and some Analog Devices parts with MAX3064 using 3V3 supply. The 'byteblaster' parallel port JTAG programmer can be a bit erratic. I had to decouple some of the JTAG signal lines with 47pF caps to make it work. Atmel's free software is really easy to use once you get used to it. Also, don't forget to tie un-used input pins to ground or Vcc. Because I was never happy with Atmel's MAX3000 output stage I switched over to using Xilinx Coolrunner. The Xilinx parts have a true complimentary output stage and you get proper rail to rail drive levels, they're also lower power too. On the downside, you have to buy a Xilinx JTAG programmer and their software leaves a great deal to be desired. Good luck Chris From swtpc6800 at attbi.com Wed Jan 9 15:40:50 2002 From: swtpc6800 at attbi.com (swtpc6800@attbi.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: PLD help Message-ID: <20020109214051.KPPG24940.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@rwcrwbc56> I use the Xilinx XC9500 family of CPLDs. They are 5 volt and come in PLCC packages. (You can socket these and even get wire wrap sockets.) The design software is free and the programming is simple. The official download cable is $95 but I have built several for under $15. (Xilinx publishes the schematic.) You can find links to the Xilinx web site plus a design example (floppy disk controller) on this web page. http://home.attbi.com/~swtpc6800/ ------------------------------- Michael Holley swtpc6800@attbi.com www.swtpc.com ------------------------------- > Hello, all: > > Well, I'm picking up the 6502 SBC project that I started last year. > To reduce chip count I'd like to use Atmel PLDs for address decoding. I > downloaded some app notes from Atmel's web site but are there any practical > tips for using/programming these devices for use in a hobbyist project? > > Rich > > ========================== > Richard A. Cini, Jr. > Congress Financial Corporation > 1133 Avenue of the Americas > 30th Floor > New York, NY 10036 > (212) 545-4402 > (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Jan 9 11:05:04 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: Astronautics ZS-1 Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225CCF@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > Bill, maybe we can do a joint on this one. > > Not if it will stink up my van . With the big peace symbol on the grill, don't you get pulled over a lot? ;) From hansp at aconit.org Wed Jan 9 09:56:04 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: Mini-Mini computer scans References: Message-ID: <3C3C6814.8040503@aconit.org> Sellam Ismail wrote: > I just wish Adobe would not follow the Microslop mentality and find a way > to make their format MUCH SMALLER. In general I agree with you that PDF files seem to be bloated. In this case however the .pdf file (1,463,895 bytes) of 6 .png images was smaller than a zip (1,940,938 bytes) of the same 6 .png images. So (for this particular case) PDF was 25% more efficient than zip! I think the space efficiency of PDF is heavily dependent on the data it encapsulates. -- hbp From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 9 13:20:32 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: Mini-Mini computer scans In-Reply-To: <3C3C6814.8040503@aconit.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Hans B Pufal wrote: > In general I agree with you that PDF files seem to be bloated. In this > case however the .pdf file (1,463,895 bytes) of 6 .png images was > smaller than a zip (1,940,938 bytes) of the same 6 .png images. So > (for this particular case) PDF was 25% more efficient than zip! My guess is that it did some sort of image down-sampling. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From hansp at aconit.org Wed Jan 9 09:59:47 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: Mini-Mini computer scans References: Message-ID: <3C3C68F3.8010004@aconit.org> Tothwolf wrote: > Actually, these jpegs are great. I wish more scanned documents were made > available in this format. Once I have my equipment set back up, I'll set > about processing them with OCR software. The author's block printing > should OCR well since his handwriting is very good. Once I have them OCR'd > I'll work on converting them to postscript. I agree that high resolution scans of original documents are a valuable resource as are OCR'd versions of the same docs for different reasons. Thanks for saying you are going to OCR these before I started on the process ;-) Hope you let me put your PS versions on the site. -- hbp From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jan 9 12:11:37 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: Mini-Mini computer scans References: <004e01c198ee$a8ba3ae0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <3C3C87D9.E00C6328@jetnet.ab.ca> Sipke de Wal wrote: > > JPEG only is lossy if you set the compressionrate above 10% > > Sipke de Wal > ---------------------------------------------------------- > http://xgistor.ath.cx > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > JPEG is a lossy imaging format. You lose detail with this format. > > > Use something else! > > At 10% compression a zip of the raw data could be smaller! -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From tom at sba.miami.edu Wed Jan 9 08:12:06 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: Continuing PDP11 saga In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146748E@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: I tried taking an M8027 and setting its address to 170400, to make it look like the ADV11-C. However, when typing that address before and after I installed the board, at the @ prompt, it returned 177777. Also, the DRV11, at 167770, does the same thing. The DRV11-B gives 000000 (at 772410), although at the CSR (772414) it gives 006800. My printer card that I tried to use as a fake ADV11 has jumpers on pin 12 and pin 8, with the rest removed. Is this correct for setting it to 170400? I noticed on the DRV11 card that it says jumper in = logic 0. That one has one jumper on pin 12, which I assume gives it the proper address of 167770. This one appears unmodified from the factory. Are my jumpers on the printer card the opposite of what they should be? Is 177777 what is returned for a missing board? If I have the jumpers reversed on the printer card, that would explain that situation, but it doesn't explain the DRV11, unless its bad. Any thoughts? Thanks, Tom From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jan 9 13:30:54 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: Continuing PDP11 saga In-Reply-To: Tom Leffingwell "Continuing PDP11 saga" (Jan 9, 9:12) References: Message-ID: <10201091930.ZM23256@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 9, 9:12, Tom Leffingwell wrote: > > I tried taking an M8027 and setting its address to 170400, to make it look > like the ADV11-C. However, when typing that address before and after I > installed the board, at the @ prompt, it returned 177777. Whatever the address you set, it wasn't 170400... > Also, the > DRV11, at 167770, does the same thing. The DRV11-B gives 000000 (at > 772410), although at the CSR (772414) it gives 006800. Well, if you're using 18-bit addressing -- which you must be if the DRV11-B responds to 772410 rather than 17772410 -- then all the I/O addresses begin 77.... rather than 17.... 17.... in ODT would address the memory. I/O addresses are often given as 17.... for older QBus devices, because the original LSI/11 used 16-bit addressing. You have to mentally add two or six more '1's on the front for an 11/23 or later processor. > My printer card that I tried to use as a fake ADV11 has jumpers on pin 12 > and pin 8, with the rest removed. Is this correct for setting it to > 170400? No, 'fraid not. This is an LPV11, M8027? The jumpers that go between the two pins in each of the pairs labelled A3 to A12 set the address, a jumper inserted makes it a '0' and "no jumper" sets a '1' in that bit position. You can't control address bits 13 or higher, nor can you control A0...A2. A0 doesn't matter, A1 distinguishs the CSR address from the buffer address (one word higher), and A2 is fixed at binary '1' -- so this card can never be set to anything that doesn't end in octal '4'. If all the jumpers are out except A8 and A12, that would set binary 1110111011111100 as the base address, which is octal 167374. Not quite what you wanted :-) The closest you can get is binary 1111000100000100 (the leftmost bits are already set, A12 should be out, A11...A9 in, A8 out, A7..A3 in, A2 is set to a '1' and can't be changed, and the other two are "don't care") or octal 170404. > I noticed on the DRV11 card that it says jumper in = logic 0. That one > has one jumper on pin 12, which I assume gives it the proper address of > 167770. This one appears unmodified from the factory. That's right. The jumper sets address bit 12 to 0, so you get binary 1110111111111000. > Are my jumpers on the printer card the opposite of what they should > be? Is 177777 what is returned for a missing board? If I have the > jumpers reversed on the printer card, that would explain that situation, > but it doesn't explain the DRV11, unless its bad. Yes, you have the jumper sense wrong on the printer card. What you get back from a non-existent address depends on the bus termination, but all-ones is plausible. Maybe you have a bad DRV11, or maybe you've overlooked a jumper. At least some of the CSR bits should read as zeros. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From fernande at internet1.net Wed Jan 9 09:49:34 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: Looking for a couple of boards... References: Message-ID: <3C3C668E.C52A9E8F@internet1.net> The ATI card is pretty rare, I think. They don't show up on Ebay very often and when they do they go for a quite a bit. They're not Qbus SCSI expensive, but still expensive. The IBM Image-I Adapter/A is showing up on Ebay more than it used to, and has become less expensive than it used to be. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1318995505 What are your plans for the boards? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > I am looking for an ATI Graphics Ultra Pro MCA and an IBM Image-I > Adapter/A. Let me know if you have one you can get rid of. Thanks. > > Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jan 9 13:05:56 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: Looking for a couple of boards... In-Reply-To: <3C3C668E.C52A9E8F@internet1.net> Message-ID: My plans? XFree under OS/2. Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 10:49:34 -0500 > From: Chad Fernandez > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Looking for a couple of boards... > > The ATI card is pretty rare, I think. They don't show up on Ebay very > often and when they do they go for a quite a bit. They're not Qbus SCSI > expensive, but still expensive. The IBM Image-I Adapter/A is showing up > on Ebay more than it used to, and has become less expensive than it used > to be. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1318995505 > > What are your plans for the boards? > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > > > I am looking for an ATI Graphics Ultra Pro MCA and an IBM Image-I > > Adapter/A. Let me know if you have one you can get rid of. Thanks. > > > > Peace... Sridhar > From rmeenaks at olf.com Wed Jan 9 09:52:27 2002 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: Does anyone have the IMSB009 DSP development software? (IMSA100 DSP chips) Message-ID: <3C3C673B.731DEAE4@olf.com> Hi, I am looking for the TDS703 or equivalent development software for INMOS' A100 DSP chips so that I can program a IMSB009 accordingly. Does anyone have the development software for either this DSP chip or the actuall IMSB009 board itself? Thanks... Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From jrice at texoma.net Wed Jan 9 07:24:24 2002 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: eMag Solutions LLC announces end of life plan for open reel (9-track) tape References: Message-ID: <3C3C4488.9090305@texoma.net> I was in Graham last week. I always have wondered what eMag produced! James Bill Richman wrote: >Maybe this has already gone through the list. If not, I thought it >might be of interest. Seems like the end of an era... > >http://www.emaglink.com/Articles/17Dec01.htm > >Atlanta (December 17, 2001) - eMag, the last manufacturer of open reel >(9-track) tape, is announcing its end of life program for users of >this product. eMag, which has produced open reel (9-track) tape in its >Graham, Texas facility for over 30 years, has determined that the >significantly decreased demand for this once dominant magnetic media >format mandates an organized end of life announcement and program. To >provide an orderly and seamless transition for users of open reel >(9-track) tape technology, we have spent over 3 years developing >alternative solutions that have proven to be both operationally >efficient and cost effective. For a more detailed description of >eMag's alternatives please visit 9-track Retirement. > >Final Orders > >In order to properly prepare for our final build of this product, eMag >will review and accept final orders for open reel (9-track) tape now, >and through January 14, 2002. > >We will prioritize shipments for firm non-cancelable orders, on a >first come first served basis, consistent with our existing inventory >and final manufacturing run and plant capacity. eMag will not >manufacture new open reel (9-track) tape after these final orders are >completed. To assist you with your needs and answer any questions, >eMag has designated experienced program managers in the United States >and Europe to oversee this end of life program. Please direct all >orders, and other inquiries to them at: > >USA >Scott Gaylord >Vice President >404-995-6022 >sgaylord@emaglink.com > Europe, Middle East and Africa >Mark Stephens >Vice President >44-1495-311000 >mstephens@emaglink.co.uk > > > >About eMag Solutions > >eMag Solutions is an international organization, headquartered in >Atlanta, Georgia. Our European operations are based in Brynmawr, UK, >and there are more the 200 employees worldwide. Thirty years of >success working in data center environments has created a team of >expert and experienced professionals, with unparalleled knowledge of >data media, its capability, application and potential which has >allowed us to develop additional strategic relationships to ensure >that our clients have access to the best data storage solutions >available. > > > > >Bill Richman >bill_r@inetnebr.com >http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r > >Home of Fun with Molten Metal, technological >oddities, and the original COSMAC Elf >computer simulator! > >. > From west at tseinc.com Wed Jan 9 08:05:11 2002 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: eMag Solutions LLC announces end of life plan for open reel (9-track) tape References: Message-ID: <004301c19916$a85111a0$0101a8c0@jay> Aw Geeze.... is this really the end? I would go nuts if I couldn't get 9 track mag tapes anymore. Pretty much everything in my collection depends on it. The note says emag is the last manufacturer. Is that in the US, or in the world? I'm wondering if they will still be available for purchase, but will originate from overseas manufacturers. Anyone have a box of good condition 1/2 mag tapes they'll part with? Probably not now I would guess. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Richman" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 3:25 PM Subject: eMag Solutions LLC announces end of life plan for open reel (9-track) tape > Maybe this has already gone through the list. If not, I thought it > might be of interest. Seems like the end of an era... > > http://www.emaglink.com/Articles/17Dec01.htm From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 9 13:15:47 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:24 2005 Subject: eMag Solutions LLC announces end of life plan for open reel (9-track) tape In-Reply-To: <004301c19916$a85111a0$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Jay West wrote: > Anyone have a box of good condition 1/2 mag tapes they'll part with? > Probably not now I would guess. Heck no! After January 14th I'm putting all mine up on eBay under the "RARE!!@@!" category. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Wed Jan 9 08:23:21 2002 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: eMag Solutions LLC announces end of life plan for open reel (9-track) tape Message-ID: Haven't looked recently but, they show up on ebay quite often. Prices are typically in the $2.00 - $5.00 range per tape. About two years ago, I bought 30 boxes of new 2400' tapes. As I recall, I paid $3.00 per tape (with shipping). I'd be willing to part with some but, since I'm recently unemployed, I gotta make some money on the deal. SteveRob >From: "Jay West" >Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >To: >Subject: Re: eMag Solutions LLC announces end of life plan for open reel >(9-track) tape >Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 08:05:11 -0600 > >Aw Geeze.... is this really the end? I would go nuts if I couldn't get 9 >track mag tapes anymore. Pretty much everything in my collection depends on >it. The note says emag is the last manufacturer. Is that in the US, or in >the world? I'm wondering if they will still be available for purchase, but >will originate from overseas manufacturers. > >Anyone have a box of good condition 1/2 mag tapes they'll part with? >Probably not now I would guess. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From RCini at congressfinancial.com Wed Jan 9 07:43:17 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E587A0F9@MAIL10> I believe that the Diamond Trackstar can use a PC floppy drive to read an Apple II disk by using a special passive cable between the Trackstar board and the floppy. For me, I use a real Apple drive connected to the Trackstar. Otherwise, I use ADT to get apple disk images into and out of the Apple<=>PC. For preservation of BASIC listings I would get a super serial card for the Apple, null-modem connect it to the PC, do PR#2 and then "list" the program to a terminal program (with screen logging ON) running on the PC. This same trick, console redirection, is used to get the Apple portion of the ADT program into the Apple (except using IN#2 I believe). Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) -----Original Message----- From: M H Stein [mailto:mhstein@usa.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 11:28 PM To: 'ClassicComputers' Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS Do I gather from previous discussions that it's a problem reading an Apple II floppy disk on a PC? I'm about to get rid of my last Apple II clone (No, Ernest, I haven't forgotten you) but there are some Basic programs on Apple diskettes that I might want to port to GW-Basic some day. Trouble is, the Apple has no parallel or serial cards and I don't feel like copying them off the screen by hand. I think with a little software I could transfer it to one of my PETs via the cassette port, and from there it would be trivial to get to a PC, but I'm hoping there's an easier way. I have a CompatiCard I and Uniform, and I still have the T300 that no one wanted which can do 96TPI 640K MS-DOS diskettes as well as the usual MS-DOS 5.25 formats, if that's of any use. Any ideas? mike From cpg at aladdin.de Wed Jan 9 08:52:18 2002 From: cpg at aladdin.de (cpg@aladdin.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS Message-ID: Aladdin. Securing the Global Village. Gabriele-M?nter.Stra?e 1, D-82110 Germering Tel: +49 (89) 89 42 21 -0 Fax: +49 (89) 89 42 21 -40 See our Web site at http://www.aladdin.de On 01/08/2002 08:47:59 PM PST "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > >On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, M H Stein wrote: >> Do I gather from previous discussions that it's a >> problem reading an Apple II floppy disk on a PC? > >No PROBLEM, just impossible. > >There have been a few special boards that could be installed into a PC to >do it. The Compaticard is NOT one of them. "Match Point" might be, as is >Apple Turnover, and it's even theoretically possible to do it with the >CopyII Option board (if you are willing to write a program comparable to >the Apple OS file system. Same with Catweasel - theoretical possibility, >but significant software needed but not available. > >> I think with a little software I could transfer it >> to one of my PETs via the cassette port, and from there >> it would be trivial to get to a PC, but I'm hoping >> there's an easier way. > >Really? The PC can't do PET disks, either. But you MIGHT be able to >interface one of the aftermarket IEEE488 drives to the Pet with some >trivial hardware, and then interface it to the PC, and just write a file >system for it. > >But, if you have a serial port on the Pet, then it'll be easy. > >Or maybe you could program the cassette port of a 5150? > >If you have an Amiga, and are willing to buy or write significant >software, it can (in theory) do both Apple and PC. > >> I have a CompatiCard I and Uniform, and I still have >Those will be nice for doing MFM diskettes. No help at all for GCR >(Apple and Commodore). > > > >> the T300 that no one wanted which can do 96TPI 640K >> MS-DOS diskettes as well as the usual MS-DOS 5.25 >> formats, if that's of any use. > >If you DO figure out a use for it, let me know. Somewhere around here are >a few of them. I patched PC-Write to run on it, but never came up with >anything else to do with it. Eventually I gave one to Toshiba's MRI >division, because they couldn't get one throught their main corporation. > >-- >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > ************************************************************************************************** The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential. It is intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager or the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any one or make copies. ** eSafe AKS_MUC scanned this email for viruses, vandals and malicious content ** ************************************************************************************************** From cpg at aladdin.de Wed Jan 9 08:54:30 2002 From: cpg at aladdin.de (Christian Groessler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS Message-ID: <87ofk3mv6h.fsf@gibbon.cnet.aladdin.de> Sorry for my previous mail, I hit send prematurely... On 01/08/2002 08:47:59 PM PST "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > >There have been a few special boards that could be installed into a PC to >do it. The Compaticard is NOT one of them. "Match Point" might be, as is >Apple Turnover, and it's even theoretically possible to do it with the >CopyII Option board (if you are willing to write a program comparable to >the Apple OS file system. Same with Catweasel - theoretical possibility, >but significant software needed but not available. So would it be really possible for the CopyII Option board? IOW, is there programming documentation available on the net? regards, chris From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 9 10:37:09 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS In-Reply-To: <87ofk3mv6h.fsf@gibbon.cnet.aladdin.de> Message-ID: On 9 Jan 2002, Christian Groessler wrote: > >CopyII Option board (if you are willing to write a program comparable to > >the Apple OS file system. Same with Catweasel - theoretical possibility, > >but significant software needed but not available. > So would it be really possible for the CopyII Option board? > IOW, is there programming documentation available on the net? Definitely possible. It can read a RAW track, and then your software would have to parse that to recreate the bytes and then the sector boundaries. The details of the Apple track format are pretty well described in "Beneath Apple DOS". There is no readily available programming documentation for the option board. Central Point was ultra-paranoid, and assumed that anybody wanting to do so would be doing it for no other purpose than to go into competition with them. (Kinda ironic, isn't it that those whose business is copying are those most paranoid about being copied) They made me sign Non-Disclosure-Agreements for grossly inadequate (less than 1/2 page of useful info) and wrong info that did NOT match what was clear from disassembly of TE.COM. Sorry, I don't know where that went when we closed down and moved my office. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 9 13:22:43 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On 9 Jan 2002, Christian Groessler wrote: > > >CopyII Option board (if you are willing to write a program comparable to > > >the Apple OS file system. Same with Catweasel - theoretical possibility, > > >but significant software needed but not available. > > So would it be really possible for the CopyII Option board? > > IOW, is there programming documentation available on the net? > > Definitely possible. It can read a RAW track, and then your software > would have to parse that to recreate the bytes and then the sector > boundaries. The details of the Apple track format are pretty well > described in "Beneath Apple DOS". Hmmm, very cool. I could easily write some software to decode the sectors. The problem is no documentation for the board :( Anyone? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 9 11:42:02 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > > The Microsolutions MatchPoint card in conjunction with a specific > > version of UniForm will permit read/write of the Apple II format > > disks. That is about the only combination that immediately occurs > > that permits this. Turnover (previously Apple Turnover) from Vertex was another earlier version of the same thing. On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Are these still available somewhere? The Matchpoint is rare. I see them occasionally, but not very often. Actually, I saw one at VCF a few years ago, but when I went back to get it, somebody else had already bought it. > I just found another Copy II Option > board today but I guess, according to Fred, I can't actually copy files > FROM an Apple disk to the PC. Does it at least allow sector access on the > Apple ][ floppy? Nope. It does RAW track read. You would then have to parse the track data to recreate bytes and sector boundaries. Not completely trivial, but quite feasible. > What about the (Applied Engineering) PC Transporter? It's an Apple ][ > card that allows you to connect up a PC drive to your Apple and transfer > files. I think I have one somewhere. I also have a Rana PC<->Apple > gateway box but I don't know if it works like the PC Transporter. I guess > I should play with it someday and see what it does. There were several after-market devices for the Apple to do it. One of them advertised itself as being a "PC drive for the Apple". Inside the "drive" box was an Ampro Littleboard! It was just using the Apple as a terminal. There were two Apple on a board units for the PC. There was the Diamond Trackstar (which was even available through RS for a while!), and there was the Quadram Quadlink. The Quadlink had some quality control issues - of 20 that we bought at the college, 16 were DOA. When Quadram replaced those, 12 of the REPLACEMENTS were DOA! C'mon guys, you do have to test some of them, and all of replacement units. One of them had a connector installed backwards, such that it could NOT be connected using their cables WHEN we locate the Apple Turnover software, and IF we can find one of the boards that WORKS, it can do Apple-DOS, Apple CP/M, P-System, and Pro-Dos. The hardware is flaky and the software is buggy, and it is picky about which drives it will work with. But it did work. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 9 13:28:42 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > > > The Microsolutions MatchPoint card in conjunction with a specific > > > version of UniForm will permit read/write of the Apple II format > > > disks. That is about the only combination that immediately occurs > > > that permits this. > Turnover (previously Apple Turnover) from Vertex was another earlier > version of the same thing. Fred, you gave me the impression that the Turnover was a heaping mound of dung. Does/Did it actually work? Or can it be made to work? Or does it at least work half-reliably? If so, do you still have the drivers and docs for one somewhere? (Don't tell me: you gave this to me already ;) > The Matchpoint is rare. I see them occasionally, but not very often. > Actually, I saw one at VCF a few years ago, but when I went back to > get it, somebody else had already bought it. DAMN! > Nope. It does RAW track read. You would then have to parse the track > data to recreate bytes and sector boundaries. Not completely trivial, > but quite feasible. Not a problem. I'd just take the Disk ][ controller machine code and convert it to C ;) > > What about the (Applied Engineering) PC Transporter? It's an Apple ][ > > card that allows you to connect up a PC drive to your Apple and transfer > > files. I think I have one somewhere. I also have a Rana PC<->Apple > > gateway box but I don't know if it works like the PC Transporter. I guess > > I should play with it someday and see what it does. > > There were several after-market devices for the Apple to do it. One of > them advertised itself as being a "PC drive for the Apple". Inside the > "drive" box was an Ampro Littleboard! It was just using the Apple as a > terminal. This may well be the Rana box. I might have time to check on it today, but I'm behind on a major move. > There were two Apple on a board units for the PC. There was the > Diamond Trackstar (which was even available through RS for a while!), > and there was the Quadram Quadlink. The Quadlink had some quality > control issues - of 20 that we bought at the college, 16 were DOA. > When Quadram replaced those, 12 of the REPLACEMENTS were DOA! C'mon > guys, you do have to test some of them, and all of replacement units. > One of them had a connector installed backwards, such that it could > NOT be connected using their cables I missed several opportunities to buy a Diamond Trackstar off of Haggle a few years back. There was this guy who obviously had way too many of them and one was listed almost every week. I kept holding off thinking that there would also be an opportunity to buy one and kept spending my money on other things. Duh. But actually, I think I did end up with one eventually, and it's somewhere in my pile ;) > WHEN we locate the Apple Turnover software, and IF we can find one of > the boards that WORKS, it can do Apple-DOS, Apple CP/M, P-System, and > Pro-Dos. The hardware is flaky and the software is buggy, and it is > picky about which drives it will work with. But it did work. Hmm. Good enough. So where do you think the software is? Do you have the source? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From donm at cts.com Wed Jan 9 13:30:37 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > > > The Microsolutions MatchPoint card in conjunction with a specific > > version of UniForm will permit read/write of the Apple II format > > disks. That is about the only combination that immediately occurs > > that permits this. > > Are these still available somewhere? Only as a target of opportunity like your Option card. - don > I just found another Copy II Option > board today but I guess, according to Fred, I can't actually copy files > FROM an Apple disk to the PC. Does it at least allow sector access on the > Apple ][ floppy? > > What about the (Applied Engineering) PC Transporter? It's an Apple ][ > card that allows you to connect up a PC drive to your Apple and transfer > files. I think I have one somewhere. I also have a Rana PC<->Apple > gateway box but I don't know if it works like the PC Transporter. I guess > I should play with it someday and see what it does. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 9 14:58:42 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020109205842.45270.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > I think with a little software I could transfer it > > to one of my PETs via the cassette port, and from there > > it would be trivial to get to a PC... > > Really? The PC can't do PET disks, either. But you MIGHT be able to > interface one of the aftermarket IEEE488 drives to the Pet with some > trivial hardware, and then interface it to the PC, and just write a file > system for it. An XE1541 cable is an easy enough item to build. If you have a 4040 or 2031 drive on your PET, you could hook a 1541 to the PC, the IEEE drive to the PET and sneaker-net stuff over. Marko Makela has a cool device that's about to hit the world - a cassette port dongle for all CBM machines that speaks to a "modern" machine over serial - you save to "cassette" from your PET, B500, C64, VIC-20, whatever, and run a virtual server on a serial line on a modern machine to scoop up the data. No funny software required on the CBM side. He has a prototype and pictures, but it's not quite available yet. I know there have been some projects to emulate an IEEE port from a PeeCee parallel port - enough to drive a 4040 floppy unit. If the software were there, it'd be easy enough to turn the PeeCee into a virtual disk drive. I think you could find the stuff already done. I don't think you'd have to roll your own code to do this. My X1541 cable also has a 6-pin C= cassette port on it. I have read many PET tapes directly from DOS with a real C2N tape recorder. It's not as reliable as floppies (especially if there's a head alignment problem), but it does work. Slow as molasses in January, though. Personally, the 170K floppy shuffle is the easiest way with the most common hardware. It does require that you have a couple of Commodore devices, but they aren't uncommon. Serial ports on PETs *are* (but I have a couple of IEEE<->RS-232 boxes from "TNW" and one ROM socket ACIA board. Still doesn't make them "common" though). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 9 15:47:34 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS In-Reply-To: <20020109205842.45270.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > My X1541 cable also has a 6-pin C= cassette port on it. I have read > many PET tapes directly from DOS with a real C2N tape recorder. It's > not as reliable as floppies (especially if there's a head alignment > problem), but it does work. Slow as molasses in January, though. How is the cassette data read by the PC? Does it decode the audio? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jan 7 06:55:41 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: OT: Time-Canada posts Apple early In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02Jan9.094356est.119541@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> At around midnight last night, Time-Canada posted a story, dated Jan. 14, on their website giving a look at the new Apple product line, a day before the products were to be announced! A few hours later the story was pulled, but not before people caught sight of it, and in one case, made a PDF of it. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jan 9 07:44:45 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: OT: Time-Canada posts Apple early In-Reply-To: <02Jan9.094356est.119541@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> References: <02Jan9.094356est.119541@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <02Jan9.100050est.119097@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Darn...have to hate when something finally shows up 2-3 days after I sent it to the list... > At around midnight last night, Time-Canada posted a story, >dated Jan. 14, on their website giving a look at the new Apple >product line, a day before the products were to be announced! A few >hours later the story was pulled, but not before people caught sight >of it, and in one case, made a PDF of it. -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jan 9 08:52:31 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: OT: Time-Canada posts Apple early In-Reply-To: <02Jan9.094356est.119541@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> from Jeff Hellige at "Jan 7, 2 08:55:41 am" Message-ID: <200201091452.GAA08106@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > At around midnight last night, Time-Canada posted a story, > dated Jan. 14, on their website giving a look at the new Apple > product line, a day before the products were to be announced! A few > hours later the story was pulled, but not before people caught sight > of it, and in one case, made a PDF of it. Apparently, Job was thoroughly ticked off. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- If your troubles are deep seated and of long-standing, try kneeling. ------- From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Jan 9 16:29:47 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: OT: DELL RULES! (RE: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic ga mes issue?) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225CD0@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > > Huh?! That was the last piece of business I'll EVER do with Dell. > > > > > > Dell service sucks donkey cock. Computers: good. Service: very bad. > > > > > > F Dell! > > > > I have a Dell Inspiron 8000 that works very well. I've had > > excellent results when I've had to call in for service. > > It would seem the majority of people I confer with have nothing but pain > and anguish leading to murderous thoughts when dealing with Dell. > > F Dell and it's namesake! Dell Sales sucks... Dell technical support sucks... Dell customer service sucks... But Dell peecees are the most stable peecees I've ever seen. Their notebooks are the same Acers everyone else sells. Just had to toss in a contrary viewpoint... ;) -dq From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 9 16:38:22 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <3C3CBDEB.C1606DA3@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, David C. Jenner wrote: > I've had a Dell Inspiron 7500 laptop for almost two years now. > It is a fantastic machine. When I purchased it, I got it with > 3 years of on-site warranty for an additional $100 or so. I have: > 2) had a tech come to my house and, without looking at any > instructions, flawlessly completely disassemble the machine, > replacing a suspected motherboard (it turned out it wasn't > the culprit), and reassemble it, again without looking at any > instructions. Having myself quite a bit of experience with hardware, > especially old laptops, I was amazed at his competency. I've done this type of disassembly on a different model Dell laptop three times now. I didn't replace the motherboard, but to get at the primary RAM module, you have to totally break the unit down and remove the cpu module. I think the laptop I had to work on was an 8100, but I'm not sure. > Those who aren't willing or able to pay a few extra dollars for > extended warranty may be making a mistake. And it's usually those > who yell and curse who get the most attention. You are lucky. Dell claimed they never sold the extended warranty on their Inspiron laptops when I needed to get the main board replaced. They claimed the extended "on-site" warranty wasn't even available for that series, so there was no way that they could have even sold it with the laptop. I think overall cause of the problem was just plain inexcusable. It had a deformed high density board to board connector that appeared to have been damaged when the board was manufactured. It had heat damage from soldering. Oh yeah, the the "repaired" laptop came back with damaged (broken) LCD locking clips...the ones used to hold it closed. I haven't even tried to see what it will take to get these replaced... -Toth From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 9 16:42:33 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <200201092200.g09M0RA13378@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > No, I've had the miniPCI MODEM replaced as my system was shipped with > the Actiontec and I had specified the 3Com, so Dell sent a tech to > swap the card. I also had the SXGA+ screen replaced twice. The first > screen developed a flicker, so they sent a tech to replace the screen. > I didn't the the second screen looked even, so they had a second > screen replacement installed. I didn't have to make up any excuse, I > just told tech support I was unhappy with the way the LCD looked. > Finally, I had a problem with the mouse developing a mind of its own. > The keyboard (with built-in eraser-head pointer) was replaced, and > when the problem reoccurred they sent a new palmrest (which has the > touchpad built-in), which fixed the problem. So, in other words, your laptop basically sucked as far as quality goes? :) > Each time the techs arrived the next day, with the replacement part > and tools, and the techs (I've had three different techs) all knew > what they were doing. Dell on-site tech support is subbed out to local contractors who are supposed to be "Dell certified" or whatever. So that explains why some people may have good service, and others lousy, when it comes to on-site support. It depends on the local contractor. > So yes, I've had problems, and yes, Dell did give me outstanding > support and service. Again, you got lucky. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 9 13:35:49 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available In-Reply-To: <3C3BF3E3.9060807@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <20020109130501.A2402-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote: > So, Jeffrey Sharp, we can help you out. I'm interested. I'll contact you off-list. > Oh my, what am I going to do with my VAX6520 and the HSC90 > and the other Dataproducts printer? I've always thought it would be fun to build a starship simulator. It would be a big room somewhat like a cross between a Star Trek bridge and the big control room of the Alexiy Leonov from 2010, and it would allow the occupants to be virtually 'inside' their own sci-fi adventure. It would accomodate 4 to 8 occupants and require them to work as a team to complete a mission or win a battle. Mount the room on hydraulic doohickeys that will shift the room about as needed, build in a capability for the room to partially blow itself to bits (and be easily reassembled later), and you've got something quite fun. Think 'Kobiyashi Maru'. I want to control most of it with on-topic machines. A big VAX would be nice for that. About the only thing I can think of that would need a modern machine for is the viewscreen. I'll need a box with godly 3D capabilities if I want the universe to look realistic in real time. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From bpope at wordstock.com Wed Jan 9 14:03:36 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available In-Reply-To: <20020109130501.A2402-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at Jan 9, 02 01:35:49 pm Message-ID: <200201092003.PAA27340@wordstock.com> > > I've always thought it would be fun to build a starship simulator. It > would be a big room somewhat like a cross between a Star Trek bridge and > the big control room of the Alexiy Leonov from 2010, and it would allow > the occupants to be virtually 'inside' their own sci-fi adventure. It > would accomodate 4 to 8 occupants and require them to work as a team to > complete a mission or win a battle. Mount the room on hydraulic > doohickeys that will shift the room about as needed, build in a capability Awww we don't need that... We will just synchronise throwing ourselves in appropriate directions...... > for the room to partially blow itself to bits (and be easily reassembled ! So we will need to sign a waiver before playing your game?! ;-) > later), and you've got something quite fun. Think 'Kobiyashi Maru'. > > I want to control most of it with on-topic machines. A big VAX would be > nice for that. About the only thing I can think of that would need a > modern machine for is the viewscreen. I'll need a box with godly 3D > capabilities if I want the universe to look realistic in real time. > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jan 9 14:36:20 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available References: <20020109130501.A2402-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3C3CA9C4.3CC936A2@jetnet.ab.ca> "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > I want to control most of it with on-topic machines. A big VAX would be > nice for that. About the only thing I can think of that would need a > modern machine for is the viewscreen. I'll need a box with godly 3D > capabilities if I want the universe to look realistic in real time. http://home.hetnet.nl/~tshaj/ Click in the 'star screen' for a real star-ship bridge. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 9 15:37:12 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: Starship simulator (was: VAX 11/780s...) In-Reply-To: <3C3CA9C4.3CC936A2@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20020109152435.W2402-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > http://home.hetnet.nl/~tshaj/ > Click in the 'star screen' for a real star-ship bridge. Yeah, that's what gave me the idea. I would add a few improvements: * It will require a group of people. This will encourage teamwork and role-playing among the players. * It will be much bigger. Think NCC-1701-D bridge. * Things will move, shake, and explode. Yes, you'll have to sign a waiver. No, it won't be handicapped-accessible. That said, risk of injury should be minimal. * An entire colleciton of classicmp hardware running most of it. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jan 9 16:05:31 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: Starship simulator (was: VAX 11/780s...) In-Reply-To: <20020109152435.W2402-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> Message-ID: If it's the Enterprise-D, it's already been done. Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 15:37:12 -0600 (CST) > From: Jeffrey S. Sharp > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Starship simulator (was: VAX 11/780s...) > > On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > http://home.hetnet.nl/~tshaj/ > > Click in the 'star screen' for a real star-ship bridge. > > Yeah, that's what gave me the idea. I would add a few improvements: > > * It will require a group of people. This will encourage teamwork and > role-playing among the players. > > * It will be much bigger. Think NCC-1701-D bridge. > > * Things will move, shake, and explode. Yes, you'll have to sign > a waiver. No, it won't be handicapped-accessible. That said, risk of > injury should be minimal. > > * An entire colleciton of classicmp hardware running most of it. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@subatomix.com > > From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Jan 9 17:13:53 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: Starship simulator (was: VAX 11/780s...) In-Reply-To: <20020109152435.W2402-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> Message-ID: ...and check out http://www.simpits.org for a gang of people that would love to see it. :) g. On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > http://home.hetnet.nl/~tshaj/ > > Click in the 'star screen' for a real star-ship bridge. > > Yeah, that's what gave me the idea. I would add a few improvements: > > * It will require a group of people. This will encourage teamwork and > role-playing among the players. > > * It will be much bigger. Think NCC-1701-D bridge. > > * Things will move, shake, and explode. Yes, you'll have to sign > a waiver. No, it won't be handicapped-accessible. That said, risk of > injury should be minimal. > > * An entire colleciton of classicmp hardware running most of it. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@subatomix.com > > From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 9 15:45:47 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available In-Reply-To: <3C3CA9C4.3CC936A2@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > http://home.hetnet.nl/~tshaj/ > Click in the 'star screen' for a real star-ship bridge. I nominate this person for the "Geek With Way Too Much Fricken Time On His Hands" award. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jan 9 16:37:06 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: GWWTMFTOHH Award, Was: Re: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > http://home.hetnet.nl/~tshaj/ > > Click in the 'star screen' for a real star-ship bridge. > > I nominate this person for the "Geek With Way Too Much Fricken Time On His > Hands" award. I nominate towel.blinkenlights.nl Telnet there and kick back. Doc From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jan 9 14:48:41 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available In-Reply-To: <20020109130501.A2402-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> References: <3C3BF3E3.9060807@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: >I've always thought it would be fun to build a starship simulator. It >would be a big room somewhat like a cross between a Star Trek bridge and >the big control room of the Alexiy Leonov from 2010, and it would allow Check out http://www.ds9promenade.com/startrek/index.html Star Trek Experience at the Hilton in Las Vegas, pretty good I am told. From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jan 9 15:25:50 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It's more than pretty good. It's absolutely incredible. They beam you up. And, even though you can probably figure out how they do it if you think about it, it is still mesmerizing. And the sets look exactly like the bridge of the Enterprise-D. It rocks. Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Mike Ford wrote: > Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 12:48:41 -0800 > From: Mike Ford > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available > > >I've always thought it would be fun to build a starship simulator. It > >would be a big room somewhat like a cross between a Star Trek bridge and > >the big control room of the Alexiy Leonov from 2010, and it would allow > > Check out > http://www.ds9promenade.com/startrek/index.html > > Star Trek Experience at the Hilton in Las Vegas, pretty good I am told. > > > From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1541.monmouth.com Wed Jan 9 07:48:17 2002 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1541.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available In-Reply-To: from "Merle K. Peirce" at "Jan 8, 2002 02:34:59 pm" Message-ID: <200201091348.g09DmHf04026@bg-tc-ppp1541.monmouth.com> > Wanna come up and play with our Perkin-Elmers sometime? > > M. K. Peirce > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid The amount of OS/32 I know is minimal and dropping daily. I used to know Xelos (Perkin-Elmer's SysV Rel0 port to the 3200 series) but that's not available anywhere I'll bet and no one is probably at the current Concurrent (formerly Harris) who cares about adding it to the archived Unix software at The Unix Heritage Society. RTU is also pretty rare these days. My favorite OS source code I'd like to see released is Pyramid's OS/x dual universe (SysV BSD) SMP port. There are pieces of that I'd love to see in FreeBSD. Bill -- d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 9 16:46:07 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: Starship simulator (was: VAX 11/780s...) In-Reply-To: from "Boatman on the River of Suck" at Jan 09, 2002 05:05:31 PM Message-ID: <200201092246.g09Mk7m00425@shell1.aracnet.com> > If it's the Enterprise-D, it's already been done. > > Peace... Sridhar NCC-1701 ST:TOS bridge was done in the 70's in the bottom of a missle silo, by a family that lived in said missle silo! It was shown on something like "Ripley's Believe it or Not". Zane From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 9 16:49:57 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <3C3CBDEB.C1606DA3@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, David C. Jenner wrote: > Those who aren't willing or able to pay a few extra dollars for > extended warranty may be making a mistake. And it's usually those who > yell and curse who get the most attention. I've had my Dell Dimension deskptop that I bought a couple years ago perform flawlessy ever since the first day it was plugged in. I love it. The OS on it, on the other hand, sucks llama balls (guess which one it is). I've never needed service on it, so my experience as far as this goes is excellent. On the other hand, at my last business I had nothing but problems with Dell and their shitty tech "support". I had the same problem others have described--needing them to send a replacement part for defective hardware and being asked to send in the entire unit so that it could be repaired there, otherwise they would want a credit card number to secure the replacement part! What kind of shit is that? Of course, this is after you have to go through all the asinine motions with their support drones that you've already done. I'm not even going to recount the horrible experience we had when our accountant's HD crashed and we needed to simply get it replaced under warranty. What should have taken 1 day was spread out over almost a week, seriously hindering her ability to do her job. I was about to just buy a HD from Fry's when I finally got through to someone in their "support" department who gave half a rat's ass. I believed in Dell and bought only from Dell back then. Now I have nothing good to say about those pieces of shit. Dell's defect rate is unacceptable. Their "support" is abysmal. Their faith in the customer is nonexistant. This statement can apply to just about any technology company doing business today, including AT&T at the top of the list. > So, G*d D**m, Dell makes an excellent computer. And their F***ing > service is the best I have ever seen! Haha. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From classiccmp at knm.yi.org Wed Jan 9 16:49:57 2002 From: classiccmp at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: What to do with an empty BA23 Message-ID: Hi guys, I'm sat here wondering what I should do with this empty BA23 I've got. I'd like to get another machine up and running, either VAX or PDP, but I don't have the bits :&) If anyone in the UK has any spare bits kicking about, I'd be intrested, if not, I might be able to arrange shipping from the US. If all else fails, anyone think of an alternative use for a BA23? :&) Otherwise it's just going to carry on what it's been doing so far - sat on the side gathering dust :&/ On another note - anyone in the UK with a spare QBus ethernet card (DELQA or such) they're willing to part with? I'd love to get my MVII on the network here :&) -- Matt --- Web Page: http://knm.org.uk/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 9 16:50:49 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: Mini-Mini computer scans In-Reply-To: <3C3C68F3.8010004@aconit.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Hans B Pufal wrote: > Tothwolf wrote: > > > Actually, these jpegs are great. I wish more scanned documents were made > > available in this format. Once I have my equipment set back up, I'll set > > about processing them with OCR software. The author's block printing > > should OCR well since his handwriting is very good. Once I have them OCR'd > > I'll work on converting them to postscript. > > I agree that high resolution scans of original documents are a valuable > resource as are OCR'd versions of the same docs for different reasons. > Thanks for saying you are going to OCR these before I started on the > process ;-) It's going to be a few months before I can get to it. If you already have things set up to do the OCR work, I'll let you handle it instead. -Toth From classiccmp at knm.yi.org Wed Jan 9 16:53:44 2002 From: classiccmp at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: Anyone got a spare DSSI terminator? Message-ID: Hi, I post about this occasionally, get a response or two, then hear nothing again :&) So here goes again.. I've got a MV3300 here in my kitchen/dining room, and it's missing a DSSI terminator... so if there's anyone out there with a spare.... :&) (Sad state of afairs - the guy I bought this MV3300 from scrapped the second drive enclosure and obviously never took the terminator :&/ So not only do I have a VMS install that expects 3 drives when there are only two there, but I'm also short of a terminator) -- Matt --- Web Page: http://knm.org.uk/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 9 17:00:29 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: Pyramid OS/x (was: Re: Re: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available) In-Reply-To: <200201091348.g09DmHf04026@bg-tc-ppp1541.monmouth.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Bill Pechter wrote: > My favorite OS source code I'd like to see released is Pyramid's OS/x > dual universe (SysV BSD) SMP port. Speaking of which, does anyone know what version of OS/x the R4400 cpu based systems used? Anyone have a source for it? -Toth From tuban at cisco.com Wed Jan 9 15:44:03 2002 From: tuban at cisco.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: Tek scope service manuals Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020109154318.00b9f340@ubanproductions.com> Does anyone know of a source for Tek scope service manuals? Of specific interest are: 2246A and 2430A --tnx --tom From foxvideo at wincom.net Wed Jan 9 16:20:39 2002 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: Tek scope service manuals In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020109154318.00b9f340@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020109171958.00b55200@mail.wincom.net> At 03:44 PM 09/01/2002 -0600, you wrote: >Does anyone know of a source for Tek scope service manuals? > >Of specific interest are: 2246A and 2430A > >--tnx >--tom Me too, if anyone turns up info on the 604. Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jan 9 16:02:12 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available References: Message-ID: <3C3CBDE4.26FA4E2E@jetnet.ab.ca> Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > It's more than pretty good. It's absolutely incredible. They beam you > up. And, even though you can probably figure out how they do it if you > think about it, it is still mesmerizing. And the sets look exactly like > the bridge of the Enterprise-D. It rocks. I never did like computers of TNG. The high tech has too much of a magic feel to it! -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From bpope at wordstock.com Wed Jan 9 17:09:01 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jan 9, 02 09:52:01 pm Message-ID: <200201092309.SAA07610@wordstock.com> > > > Speaking of DIN plugs... I had to buy an 8-pin to finally make my XE1541 > > cable... I cut off a few pins and *fit* the other ones to the correct places.. > > Any reason you didn't just buy a 6 pin DIN plug? I assume it's to fit the > CBM serial bus conenctors on the 1541... Because no one in the area had any in stock. Even this place called "You-do-it Electronics" which has a *huge* selection of electronic parts was out of them. :( Their computer said it was in stock and the floor person was very helpful in trying to find it - but to no avail. The guy said that there is not much call for 6 pin DIN plugs anymore.. :( > > > After having a lot of fun (NOT) with the soldering... I finally got it together > > *and* working.. :) > > > > And here is my follow-up question... Is there an *easy* way to get the cover > > off of a DIN plug without making anymore new scars in my fingers? > > > Press in the metal locking tab with a screwdriver. You'll generaly bend it > so far it'll not lock any more, but that's easy to fix once the plug is > apart. > > If the plug is on a piece of cable. push the cable into the plug. And > pull on the metal 'can'. The cover will then slide off. > > If the plug is unwired, push a suitable drift (Allen hex key?) up the > cable strain relief to push the guts out. > Thanks - I will try this next time I take on apart. Bryan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 9 17:27:15 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: <200201092309.SAA07610@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20020109232715.3604.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bryan Pope wrote: > > > > > Speaking of DIN plugs... I had to buy an 8-pin to finally make my > > > XE1541 cable... > > Because no one in the area had any in stock. Radio Shack _used_ to carry them, but my youngest brother bought out all the local ones when they cancelled the line last year. > The guy said that there is not much call for 6 pin DIN plugs anymore.. :( I get them from the parts guys at Hamfests. I like to have a few here and there. Besides CBM disk cables, I have a small quantity of cash register (till) "Pole Displays" with 2x20 flourescent displays inside - and a DIN-6 at the end of the cable (RS-232 in, and 6VAC @ 600mA) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From tom at sba.miami.edu Wed Jan 9 17:19:27 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: Continuing PDP11 saga In-Reply-To: <10201091930.ZM23256@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: I think I finally get the picture on the addressing...However, that raises two more questions. If my program is trying to talk to a 22-bit address, and I have 18-bit addressing, will it not work, or will it be converted? Also, if my backplane becomes 22-bit (by replacing it or adding the jumpers for the other 4 bits) does everything automagically change to 22-bit, or do you change a jumper on the M8186, or on the MSV11, or both? Thanks, Tom On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > Well, if you're using 18-bit addressing -- which you must be if the DRV11-B > responds to 772410 rather than 17772410 -- then all the I/O addresses begin > 77.... rather than 17.... 17.... in ODT would address the memory. I/O > addresses are often given as 17.... for older QBus devices, because the > original LSI/11 used 16-bit addressing. You have to mentally add two or > six more '1's on the front for an 11/23 or later processor. From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 9 17:21:14 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: Starship simulator (was: VAX 11/780s...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020109171248.K2402-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > > * It will be much bigger. Think NCC-1701-D bridge. > > If it's the Enterprise-D, it's already been done. Nah, just about that size. For content, think Alexiy Leonov. Mind you, this is all entirely vapor. This is something I'll end up doing probably 10 years from now if at all. It's just fun to dream every now and then. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 9 17:21:34 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: Reading PET tapes (was Re: Apple disk -> MSDOS) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020109232134.50193.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > My X1541 cable also has a 6-pin C= cassette port on it. I have read > > many PET tapes directly from DOS with a real C2N tape recorder. > > How is the cassette data read by the PC? Does it decode the audio? Not audio (though there is an app that will decode .WAV files of PET tapes). Someone wrote a DOS app that reads the parallel port bits and converts them into a .T64 file directly. For alignment/phase, there's a graphical mode that scrolls the data up the screen along with "guard bands" that show where the app thinks a 0 and a 1 are. You use the cursor keys to align the data from the tape drive and the guard bands for optimal data parsing. Once you have an offset from this process, you can use it as a command-line parameter for bulk reading. It works well enough, but I really wish the source were available (it never seems to be for DOS programs, unlike Unix and Amiga software). I have a small pile of PET Rabbit-format tapes that I want to extract from. My BASIC 2.0 PET needs repair (keyboard problems), so I can't just read the data and save it to disk. I have plenty of 8032s, but only one 2001 (got the 80-col PETs from university surplus for $10 a few years ago; we got the 40-col, 32K PET when I was grade-school for $1175). -ethan -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 9 17:30:34 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: What to do with an empty BA23 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020109233034.15361.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> --- Matt London wrote: > On another note - anyone in the UK with a spare QBus ethernet card > (DELQA or such) they're willing to part with? I'd love to get my MVII on > the network here :&) Anyone with a spare DELQA in the U.S. that they can part with, feel free to let me know. I have one DEQNA (for multiple VAXen), but it's not loved by modern VMS. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Jan 9 17:32:56 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? Message-ID: <16f.6e18969.296e2d28@aol.com> In a message dated 1/9/2002 3:23:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, dittman@dittman.net writes: << > > > > Huh?! That was the last piece of business I'll EVER do with Dell. > > > > > > Dell service sucks donkey cock. Computers: good. Service: very bad. > > > > > > F Dell! > > > > I have a Dell Inspiron 8000 that works very well. I've had > > excellent results when I've had to call in for service. > > It would seem the majority of people I confer with have nothing but pain > and anguish leading to murderous thoughts when dealing with Dell. > > F Dell and it's namesake! I wonder why the disparity exists? -- >> I've never a problem when I've had to call on a Poweredge series. Not sure how the consumer side of support is. One time I did call about a failed hard drive that was ticking like a clock. I had to convince the guy to just send me a replacement withouth having to go through his script. The premiersupport.dell.com site is pretty good although I hate always having to give my name, company and email address every time. they should have that info already. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From louiss at gate.net Wed Jan 9 17:38:33 2002 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2002 11:34:33 -0800 (PST), Sellam Ismail wrote: #On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: # #> > > Huh?! That was the last piece of business I'll EVER do with Dell. #> > #> > Dell service sucks donkey cock. Computers: good. Service: very bad. #> > #It would seem the majority of people I confer with have nothing but pain #and anguish leading to murderous thoughts when dealing with Dell. # While I generally refrain from joining OT posts, this one I have to. I bought an Inspiron from Dell a few months ago. The invoice added $1000 to the price! I called them, and after being on hold for an hour, they agreed it was a mistake, and said they would credit my account. Two months later, no credit! I called again, and after an hour on hold, was told I was not credited, because I had not proved to them what their price was!!!! They said they could not verify the price, unless I faxed them the "Quote". The price was posted on their website!!!! There was no written quote!!!! I said I would fax them a picture of their web page (which I had made). The fax was a toll call!!! I am still waiting for the refund. I categorize them as crooks. Louis From mythtech at Mac.com Wed Jan 9 18:02:43 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? Message-ID: > I hate always having to >give my name, company and email address every time. they should have that >info already. No... they shouldn't even ASK for it... why does it matter who you are if you are browsing their support pages. -chris From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jan 9 17:40:42 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: PLD help References: <20020109214051.KPPG24940.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@rwcrwbc56> Message-ID: <003901c19967$0d8e5f00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The Altera equivalent of this download cable is a freebie when you order free samples of their newer low-voltage CPLD's (3000-series) It's essentially the same thing, though you might have to rearrange the signals at the board in order to make the software work. Building your own is a viable option as well, particularly if you put a crosspoint switch between the parallel port and the buffers in the cable, so that you can rearrange the signals to make it compatible with different vendors' software. It's very straightforward, though finding a small crosspoint switch that fits in a DB25 shell is not so easy. Since they're all in-situ-programmable, it's not necessary to socket them, though sockets may seem advisable anyway. The smaller parts cost <<$10, however, so the socket is a questionable option for a number of reasons. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 2:40 PM Subject: Re: PLD help > I use the Xilinx XC9500 family of CPLDs. They are 5 volt > and come in PLCC packages. (You can socket these and > even get wire wrap sockets.) > > The design software is free and the programming is > simple. The official download cable is $95 but I have > built several for under $15. (Xilinx publishes the > schematic.) > > You can find links to the Xilinx web site plus a design > example (floppy disk controller) on this web page. > http://home.attbi.com/~swtpc6800/ > > ------------------------------- > Michael Holley > swtpc6800@attbi.com > www.swtpc.com > ------------------------------- > > Hello, all: > > > > Well, I'm picking up the 6502 SBC project that I started last year. > > To reduce chip count I'd like to use Atmel PLDs for address decoding. I > > downloaded some app notes from Atmel's web site but are there any practical > > tips for using/programming these devices for use in a hobbyist project? > > > > Rich > > > > ========================== > > Richard A. Cini, Jr. > > Congress Financial Corporation > > 1133 Avenue of the Americas > > 30th Floor > > New York, NY 10036 > > (212) 545-4402 > > (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) > > > > From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Jan 9 18:08:47 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? Message-ID: In a message dated 1/9/2002 7:06:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, mythtech@Mac.com writes: << > I hate always having to >give my name, company and email address every time. they should have that >info already. No... they shouldn't even ASK for it... why does it matter who you are if you are browsing their support pages. -chris >> no, I mean when calling in for support. I did phone support for IBM and whenever a user called in after the first time, we had user info and call history along with the type of computer all up on the screen. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jan 9 16:05:11 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:25 2005 Subject: Tek scope service manuals References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020109154318.00b9f340@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3C3CBE97.D19F6F67@jetnet.ab.ca> Tom Uban wrote: > > Does anyone know of a source for Tek scope service manuals? > > Of specific interest are: 2246A and 2430A > > --tnx > --tom http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/ Try here! -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jan 9 17:26:20 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Tek scope service manuals References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020109171958.00b55200@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <001101c19965$0be52dc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Try the newsgroup sci.electronics.equipment. An inquiry there should produce a few nibbles. If you offer to buy the things, you should be swarmed-upon by the various small commercial interests. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles E. Fox" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 3:20 PM Subject: Re: Tek scope service manuals > At 03:44 PM 09/01/2002 -0600, you wrote: > >Does anyone know of a source for Tek scope service manuals? > > > >Of specific interest are: 2246A and 2430A > > > >--tnx > >--tom > > Me too, if anyone turns up info on the 604. > > Charles E. Fox Video Production > 793 Argyle Rd. > Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 > 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net > Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" > at http://chasfoxvideo.com > > > From djg at drs-esg.com Wed Jan 9 17:44:02 2002 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Tek scope service manuals Message-ID: <200201092344.SAA12713@drs-esg.com> >Does anyone know of a source for Tek scope service manuals? > >Of specific interest are: 2246A and 2430A > I haven't found much of scanned manuals online. For older manuals at good price I have used Dean Kidd 27270 SW Ladd Hill Rd Sherwood, OR 97140 tel 503-625-7363 dektyr@teleport.com Also see list http://www.3rdtech.com/nick/boat/manuals.htm (Manual merchants/manuals plus I think have online manual search, or web search for model # and manual) From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jan 9 18:18:58 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Anyone got a spare DSSI terminator? In-Reply-To: from "Matt London" at Jan 09, 2002 10:53:44 PM Message-ID: <200201100018.g0A0IwI13906@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I post about this occasionally, get a response or two, then hear nothing > again :&) So here goes again.. > > I've got a MV3300 here in my kitchen/dining room, and it's missing a > DSSI terminator... so if there's anyone out there with a spare.... :&) > > (Sad state of afairs - the guy I bought this MV3300 from scrapped the > second drive enclosure and obviously never took the terminator :&/ So not > only do I have a VMS install that expects 3 drives when there are only two > there, but I'm also short of a terminator) Where are you located? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From mythtech at Mac.com Wed Jan 9 18:26:13 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? Message-ID: >While I generally refrain from joining OT posts, this one I have to. I >bought an Inspiron from Dell a few >months ago. The invoice added $1000 to the price! > >I called them, and after being on hold for an hour, they agreed it was a >mistake, and said they would credit >my account. > >Two months later, no credit! I called again, and after an hour on hold, >was told I was not credited, because >I had not proved to them what their price was!!!! They said they could >not verify the price, unless I faxed >them the "Quote". The price was posted on their website!!!! There was no >written quote!!!! > >I said I would fax them a picture of their web page (which I had made). >The fax was a toll call!!! > >I am still waiting for the refund. > >I categorize them as crooks. I am assuming you called your credit card company as soon as you saw this charge and had it marked as under dispute? -chris From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jan 9 18:26:50 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jan 09, 2002 02:49:57 PM Message-ID: <200201100026.g0A0QoE13931@narnia.int.dittman.net> > On the other hand, at my last business I had nothing but problems with > Dell and their shitty tech "support". I had the same problem others have > described--needing them to send a replacement part for defective hardware > and being asked to send in the entire unit so that it could be repaired > there, otherwise they would want a credit card number to secure the > replacement part! What kind of shit is that? Of course, this is after > you have to go through all the asinine motions with their support drones > that you've already done. Okay, let me get this straight. You bought a system without onsite warranty, so when they ask you to send the entire system in to be repaired (which is the usual business practice I've seen from Sony and Compaq, too), you get upset? You then ask to get the replacement part sent to you as an advance replacement and you don't want to give them a credit card number for a deposit (which is the way most vendors handle advance replacement), so you get upset at that, too? I find it entirely reasonable that Dell ask for a credit card number as a deposit to secure the transaction to insure you send the faulty part back. Most people would just trash the bad part and not bother with returning it once they got the good part if there wasn't a financial incentive. It sounds like the problem is in not understanding the warranty and the difference between on-site and mail-in repair coverage. I paid extra for the on-site coverage so I don't have to worry about mailing my system in or providing a credit card number as a deposit on an advance replacement. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jan 9 18:34:11 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jan 09, 2002 02:42:33 PM Message-ID: <200201100034.g0A0YBT13953@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > No, I've had the miniPCI MODEM replaced as my system was shipped with > > the Actiontec and I had specified the 3Com, so Dell sent a tech to > > swap the card. I also had the SXGA+ screen replaced twice. The first > > screen developed a flicker, so they sent a tech to replace the screen. > > I didn't the the second screen looked even, so they had a second > > screen replacement installed. I didn't have to make up any excuse, I > > just told tech support I was unhappy with the way the LCD looked. > > Finally, I had a problem with the mouse developing a mind of its own. > > The keyboard (with built-in eraser-head pointer) was replaced, and > > when the problem reoccurred they sent a new palmrest (which has the > > touchpad built-in), which fixed the problem. > > So, in other words, your laptop basically sucked as far as quality goes? No, not really. They shipped the wrong modem (the Actiontec worked, but I wanted the 3Com), and they swapped for the right one. The screen flicker could have been due to the fact that this is a laptop, and does get shook around sometime. They didn't balk at swapping the replacement LCD with another one just because I didn't like the new one (I think most people wouldn't have complained). All three LCDs had no bad pixles, BTW. The mouse problem was due to me being in the habit of holding the laptop (with the screen open, which adds extra strain) in one hand on the right-front corner when I move around while I'm working and putting extra strain on the case, which caused flexing and damaged the touchpad. > > Each time the techs arrived the next day, with the replacement part > > and tools, and the techs (I've had three different techs) all knew > > what they were doing. > > Dell on-site tech support is subbed out to local contractors who are > supposed to be "Dell certified" or whatever. So that explains why some > people may have good service, and others lousy, when it comes to on-site > support. It depends on the local contractor. > > > So yes, I've had problems, and yes, Dell did give me outstanding > > support and service. > > Again, you got lucky. I know other people that have good experience. As usual, most people only hear about the bad experiences. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jan 9 18:41:09 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: from "SUPRDAVE@aol.com" at Jan 09, 2002 07:08:47 PM Message-ID: <200201100041.g0A0f9R13980@narnia.int.dittman.net> > << > I hate always having to > >give my name, company and email address every time. they should have that > >info already. > > No... they shouldn't even ASK for it... why does it matter who you are if > you are browsing their support pages. > > -chris > > >> > > no, I mean when calling in for support. I did phone support for IBM and > whenever a user called in after the first time, we had user info and call > history along with the type of computer all up on the screen. Did this information key off of Caller ID? I called a vendor once from work to order some cables. They asked me if I was some other employee, keying off the Caller ID (which returned the same since we were all behind a PBX). I gave them the correct information. For three years after that all the invoices and samples sent by this company would come to me instead of the correct person or department. The first couple of times I would call to correct them and forward the invoices and samples to the correct person. After that, I just started throwing the stuff away (unless the samples were something I could use). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jan 9 18:37:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: OT: DELL RULES! (RE: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic ga In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225CD0@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> from "Douglas Quebbeman" at Jan 09, 2002 05:29:47 PM Message-ID: <200201100037.g0A0b0p13961@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > > > Huh?! That was the last piece of business I'll EVER do with Dell. > > > > > > > > Dell service sucks donkey cock. Computers: good. Service: very bad. > > > > > > > > F Dell! > > > > > > I have a Dell Inspiron 8000 that works very well. I've had > > > excellent results when I've had to call in for service. > > > > It would seem the majority of people I confer with have nothing but pain > > and anguish leading to murderous thoughts when dealing with Dell. > > > > F Dell and it's namesake! > > Dell Sales sucks... > Dell technical support sucks... > Dell customer service sucks... > > But Dell peecees are the most stable peecees I've ever > seen. Their notebooks are the same Acers everyone else > sells. Actually, it depends on the models. A lot of the later notebooks (like the 5000 and 5000e) were made by Compal, not Acer. The 8000 and 8100 are Dell-proprietary products instead of rebadged OEM systems. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jan 9 18:27:59 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Some pointers needed on a 11/70 In-Reply-To: The Wanderer "Re: Some pointers needed on a 11/70" (Jan 9, 22:42) References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662D4@exc-reo1> <11147.194.134.214.183.1010002110.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> <10201030019.ZM14991@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C35BEEC.5A050014@xs4all.nl> <10201050159.ZM17916@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C378109.27924F6C@xs4all.nl> <10201060107.ZM18992@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C38B734.A8139727@xs4all.nl> <3C3A26A7.4DB3A12E@xs4all.nl> <3C3ABF66.7A80ED3E@xs4all.nl> <10201090211.ZM22369@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C3CB961.8688B15E@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <10201100027.ZM23613@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 9, 22:42, The Wanderer wrote: > Odd enough, when I changed the SSR, the memory starts now at 1400000 and > runs > through 1477777, very odd. That suggests some unwanted interaction between the SSR and the memory bus. Very odd. > Tomorrow I'll step through all the entries listed in your last mail, it > may very > well be the case that the address and/or data buffer of the memory box > are faulty, > in which case I have to get a new one. Well, I wish you good luck with it. Keep us posted on progress... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From out2sea00 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 9 18:37:25 2002 From: out2sea00 at yahoo.com (Colin Eby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Bought an IBM 5362 -- so now what do I do with this thing? In-Reply-To: <200201092230.g09MUM129558@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <20020110003726.50360.qmail@web14501.mail.yahoo.com> Folks -- Please pardon the newbie.... I'm trying to track down resources for IBM System/36 and the model 5362. I just Ebay'd one (momentary insanity) and I need to start putting together all the apocrypha to go with it. All I'm getting is the system unit. I need to try and track down software, manuals and a display station first. Any pointers or assistance would be just lovely, and greatly appreciated. Thanks, Colin Eby Senior Consultant CSC Consulting end __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jan 9 18:47:46 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Continuing PDP11 saga In-Reply-To: Tom Leffingwell "Re: Continuing PDP11 saga" (Jan 9, 18:19) References: Message-ID: <10201100047.ZM23622@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 9, 18:19, Tom Leffingwell wrote: > > I think I finally get the picture on the addressing...However, > that raises two more questions. If my program is trying to talk to a > 22-bit address, and I have 18-bit addressing, will it not work, or will it > be converted? It will be converted. When the CPU is running a program, it only uses 16-bit addresses in the program. The MMU treats anything above 160000 as an access to the I/O page, and remaps it. > Also, if my backplane becomes 22-bit (by replacing it or > adding the jumpers for the other 4 bits) does everything automagically > change to 22-bit, or do you change a jumper on the M8186, or on the MSV11, > or both? It automagically works, except for a very few cases (and I can't even think of an example at the moment). The reason is that most I/O devices actually decode a signal called BBS7 (Bus Bank Select 7) instead of the highest address bits. The signal gets its name from the fact that the original LSI-11 used 16-bit addressing, and bank 7 was the I/O page. It's still only activated for I/O page access, regardless of whether your processor uses 16- 18- or 22-bit addressing. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From classiccmp at knm.yi.org Wed Jan 9 18:55:05 2002 From: classiccmp at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Anyone got a spare DSSI terminator? In-Reply-To: <200201100018.g0A0IwI13906@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: Hi, > > I've got a MV3300 here in my kitchen/dining room, and it's missing a > > DSSI terminator... so if there's anyone out there with a spare.... :&) > > Where are you located? Manchester, UK -- Matt --- Web Page: http://knm.org.uk/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jan 9 18:55:17 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > >> http://home.hetnet.nl/~tshaj/ >> Click in the 'star screen' for a real star-ship bridge. > >I nominate this person for the "Geek With Way Too Much Fricken Time On His >Hands" award. Man is that a cool 'toy' though! I've often pondered such an idea myself but have yet to move into a house so that it could be done Now all that's needed are the blinking lights from the Jupiter and the swirling scanners/scopes from the Enterprise. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Jan 9 19:01:33 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Bought an IBM 5362 -- so now what do I do with this thing? Message-ID: <126.9e9d090.296e41ed@aol.com> In a message dated 1/9/2002 7:41:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, out2sea00@yahoo.com writes: << I'm trying to track down resources for IBM System/36 and the model 5362. I just Ebay'd one (momentary insanity) and I need to start putting together all the apocrypha to go with it. All I'm getting is the system unit. I need to try and track down software, manuals and a display station first. Any pointers or assistance would be just lovely, and greatly appreciated. Thanks, Colin Eby Senior Consultant CSC Consulting >> I've a 5364, probably the same. anybody else got one? Mine's a desktop form factor and was lucky to get the dual floppy 5150 pc that seems to control it. I use the 5150 to IPL the 5364 and takes about 5 minutes. eventually I get a passwoid prompt and I dont know what it is. I'm not sure how the menus work. also got with it a 3194 twinax terminal but no keyboard so I can't use that right now. both units came with disks in their drives but not sure what their content is. I really should make a writeup about this beast on my collection site. It's really quite impressive. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From mythtech at Mac.com Wed Jan 9 19:03:08 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? Message-ID: >no, I mean when calling in for support. I did phone support for IBM and >whenever a user called in after the first time, we had user info and call >history along with the type of computer all up on the screen. Ahh... ok... humm, now that I think of it, when I called Apple for support a few times, they used Caller ID to pull up my record and knew who I was, and all occasions I interacted with phone support, all before answering the phone. Yeah... for phone support, it is inexcusable for them not to be able to at least look up your info after asking something simple like name and zip code -chris From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jan 9 19:04:55 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <3C3CBDEB.C1606DA3@earthlink.net> References: <200201092014.g09KEXR12934@narnia.int.dittman.net> <3C3CBDEB.C1606DA3@earthlink.net> Message-ID: >Those who aren't willing or able to pay a few extra dollars for >extended warranty may be making a mistake. And it's usually those >who yell and curse who get the most attention. I've never bought an extended warranty on any of my systems and in fact generally pick them up 2nd hand. I've never had any trouble out of any of them other than what I've caused by tweaking the insides to my liking. Even my Tandy 1000's gave me good problem-free service until I got rid of each of them and my current G3 Mac has a build quality far superior to the current Dell machines. Unfortunately, the government tends to buy Dell's now so I have to support quite a few of them and we've had far more problems than we have solid machines. On the other hand, we've got a few DEC towers humming along strong running Win95 and they're likely 5-6 years old. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From zaft at azstarnet.com Wed Jan 9 19:11:11 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <200201100034.g0A0YBT13953@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020109180947.0204fcf0@mail.azstarnet.com> FWIW we've bought a number of Dimension 4100s (and some other models), and I have an Inspiron 7500, and they've been trouble-free. We did have a video card go bad and they sent us out a new one ASAP, got it the next day I think. Maybe the problems are more with the lower end models? GZ From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jan 9 17:49:04 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available References: Message-ID: <3C3CD6F0.E6F751C@jetnet.ab.ca> Jeff Hellige wrote: > Man is that a cool 'toy' though! I've often pondered such an > idea myself but have yet to move into a house so that it could be > done Now all that's needed are the blinking lights from the > Jupiter and the swirling scanners/scopes from the Enterprise. ** Your wish is my command ** .. well almost here is a link for them blinking lights off of Jupiter. http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/B205/ -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jan 9 19:36:10 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available In-Reply-To: <3C3CD6F0.E6F751C@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3C3CD6F0.E6F751C@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: >Jeff Hellige wrote: > >> Man is that a cool 'toy' though! I've often pondered such an >> idea myself but have yet to move into a house so that it could be >> done Now all that's needed are the blinking lights from the >> Jupiter and the swirling scanners/scopes from the Enterprise. > >** Your wish is my command ** .. well almost here is a link for >them blinking lights off of Jupiter. >http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/B205/ I checked it out when you posted the URL before...impressive system. There used to be a club of people building replicas of the B-9 robot,and some of them went pretty far with the lights and such and even putting CD players inside to play various tracks. Just the conversation piece to have waiting in a corner of your living room Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From tony.eros at machm.org Wed Jan 9 12:00:58 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Symbolics systems in VT -- free to good home Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020109125929.035bfea8@mail.njd.concentric.com> Contact the original sender... -- Tony >From: > Nichael Cramer > > > > >[Feel free to pass this on to anyone who you think might be >interested.] > >I have in my basement and will donate to a good home [read >"anyone who will come pick them up"] both a SMBX 3630 and >a 3645, complete with keyboards, monitors, etc. > >Terms: >Free. All you have to do is come collect them. >[Located in Brattleboro in SE Vermont. They're in my >basement, but the basement has a nice big double-door >bulkhead, so getting them out shouldn't be too much of >a hassle --although you can't count on much help from >me in moving them.] > >Condition: >"They worked just fine the last time they were turned on." >[Although, in the name of accuracy, this has been a few years.] > >In short, the machines belong to the first person who shows >up in my driveway with a UHaul and sufficient gorillas to >help him/her wrangle them out to the truck. > >(Note: You're welcome to come look at them first if you're >interested. But beyond that I can't supply much more information >than the above. They were given to me, and since that time >I've neither turned them on nor looked under the hoods.) > >Finally: 1] preference given to anyone who will take them both. >And, 2] no, I'm not interested in piece-ing these out; if you >want part of one, you have to take the whole thing. > > > http://www.sover.net/~nichael/free-lispms.html > >Nichael > >-- >Nichael Cramer >nichael@sover.net >http://www.sover.net/~nichael/ From tom at sba.miami.edu Wed Jan 9 19:54:00 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Continuing PDP11 saga In-Reply-To: <10201100047.ZM23622@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > It will be converted. When the CPU is running a program, it only uses > 16-bit addresses in the program. The MMU treats anything above 160000 as > an access to the I/O page, and remaps it. Besides being able to map memory up to 2MW, is there any advantage to being 22-bit over 18-bit? Also, can you think of any cheaply available Q-bus module that I could set the address of to match the ADV11? I called 3 surplus places, all of whom wanted $750 - $1,000 for their ADV11's! I talked one guy down to $350 for one with a bad A-D converter, but was still addressable. That's still a lot, especially for a broken board. Thanks, Tom From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jan 9 19:53:44 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Anyone got a spare DSSI terminator? In-Reply-To: from "Matt London" at Jan 10, 2002 12:55:05 AM Message-ID: <200201100153.g0A1riB14123@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > I've got a MV3300 here in my kitchen/dining room, and it's missing a > > > DSSI terminator... so if there's anyone out there with a spare.... :&) > > > > Where are you located? > > Manchester, UK I have a spare you can have, but I'm in the US. If you can't find one locally I'll send you this one for the cost of postage. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jan 9 20:04:36 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: from Louis Schulman at "Jan 9, 2 06:38:33 pm" Message-ID: <200201100204.SAA27884@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I am still waiting for the refund. > I categorize them as crooks. Did you dispute the charges, if you had paid for it by credit card? My dad had a ticketing error by some fly-by-nite Internet travel agency which then refused to refund him the money and offered him some booby prize refund, like a trip to Cleveland, something silly like that. Dad disputed the charges and notes with some satisfaction they don't have any of his money (and they're having financial trouble to boot, so they'll be sorry they ticked him off). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- When in doubt, use brute force. -- Ken Thompson ---------------------------- From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jan 9 20:02:39 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: What to do with an empty BA23 In-Reply-To: <20020109233034.15361.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jan 09, 2002 03:30:34 PM Message-ID: <200201100202.g0A22dq14173@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Anyone with a spare DELQA in the U.S. that they can part with, feel free > to let me know. I have one DEQNA (for multiple VAXen), but it's not loved > by modern VMS. I see inexpensive DELQA boards on eBay from time to time. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Jan 9 20:14:12 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Commodore laptop: was "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: <200201090334.TAA11246@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: from Chris at "Jan 8, 2 10:20:17 pm" Message-ID: <3C3CA494.24814.1EF13CAA@localhost> Cameron and all Commodore "Gurus". I posted this before with no response. I have a nice little Commodore Laptop for which I don't have a power supply adaptor. C386SX-LT "made in Japan" "Funkenstort n. Vfg 1046/84". I would suspect it was put out by Commodore Germany. The only reference I've been able to find is for a battery for it. It's 16 v. The AC adaptor port is an female 8-pin mini-din like the Mac ones. Anyone have any info as to the pinout so I could make a plug or adaptor for it ? Lawrence > > >First, I've never found a female DIN-8 > > >port for sale (and not for lack of looking) > > > > Not that it will matter, as you don't plan to build it anyway... but for > > reference... MCM Electronics (www.mcm-electronics.com) sells Female Din-8 > > (although, isn't that size really a mini-din?). > > Not necessarily; the C64's video port comes in an 8-pin variety and they > call that DIN-8 also. Much larger, however, than Mac Mini-DIN. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- Apathetic dyslexic agnostic: "I don't care if there's a dog" --------------- Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Jan 9 20:14:12 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS In-Reply-To: References: <01C1989C.26596F00@mse-d03> Message-ID: <3C3CA494.11246.1EF13CDC@localhost> This thread has me a bit confused. Possibly why I overpaid for a superserial card when I was trying to transfer things from a Doze-centric net. I wouldn't dare to question Freds knowledge of disk formats nor Sellams fierce devotion to A2s but isn't one of the problems to get it into a format where it can be saved on a PC ? The A2-GS supports older A2 formats I believe as well as 3.5 disks. Couldn't one save it to a 3.5 disk and then use the various Mac transfer programs or a power-mac to save it to a DOS formatted disk ? Am I missing something ? I guess the only way to learn is to try the exercise myself. As an aside there was a surplus dealer on the net that seemed to have a ream of Diamond Trackstar cards going for $30 up to at least a year ago when last I checked him and debated buying one. Lawrence > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of M H Stein > > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 8:28 PM > > To: 'ClassicComputers' > > Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS > > > > > > Do I gather from previous discussions that it's a > > problem reading an Apple II floppy disk on a PC? > > > > I'm about to get rid of my last Apple II clone (No, > > Ernest, I haven't forgotten you) but there are some > > Basic programs on Apple diskettes that I might want to > > port to GW-Basic some day. Trouble is, the Apple > > has no parallel or serial cards and I don't feel like > > copying them off the screen by hand. > > > > I think with a little software I could transfer it > > to one of my PETs via the cassette port, and from there > > it would be trivial to get to a PC, but I'm hoping > > there's an easier way. > > > MIKE! Buddy! > > I keep trying to email you but your account is always full, > or it just bounces back to me after three days. > > Anyway, I have a Super Serial card that you can use, and I > can include a copy of ProTerm that might make moving these > files easier for you. > > Contact me directly and we can discuss how to get these > items to you. > > E. > > > > > > > > > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Jan 9 20:24:41 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS Message-ID: In a message dated 1/9/2002 9:14:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, lgwalker@mts.net writes: << As an aside there was a surplus dealer on the net that seemed to have a ream of Diamond Trackstar cards going for $30 up to at least a year ago when last I checked him and debated buying one. Lawrence >> i've a trackstar in a PS/2 model 30 as well as a mac LC with the //e option (and the cable too!) so I guess I have it easy doing transfers back and forth but just havent gotten a round tuit. (tm) -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 9 20:36:34 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS In-Reply-To: <3C3CA494.11246.1EF13CDC@localhost> Message-ID: There are actually numerous ways to get files from 5.25" Apple ][ diskettes into a PC. Serial ports are a good one. One of the best ones when the disk format is HARDWARE incompatible. All of the others require either special hardware, or multiple steps. For example, there is Amiga software that can read the Apple diskettes, and other Amiga software that can write PC. Or, could use one of the "new" Apple 2 models to transfer to 3.5" Apple 2 diskettes (about which I know almost nothing), and then use a Mac to read those, and a Mac to write to PC disks. Or, could get network cards for everything and build a heterogenous network. Or connect serial/modem and upload to your ISP, and then download with another machine. Or print it out and scan/OCR :-) Or use a parallel printer interface (Grappler?) cable to a PC parallel port, and write software to have the PC emulate a printer, but actually store the incoming data (XenoComm Parallel) Or transfer through cassette port to a Pet, read the Pet disks with an Amiga, write Mac disks with the Amiga, use a Mac to write PC disks. How about interfacing an IR LED to the cassette port and writing routines to write Palm compatible IR? It's only a problem if you want to try to do it in one step. (Such as people who don't have a collection of miscellaneous machines) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > This thread has me a bit confused. Possibly why I overpaid for a superserial > card when I was trying to transfer things from a Doze-centric net. > I wouldn't dare to question Freds knowledge of disk formats nor Sellams > fierce devotion to A2s but isn't one of the problems to get it into a format > where it can be saved on a PC ? The A2-GS supports older A2 formats I > believe as well as 3.5 disks. Couldn't one save it to a 3.5 disk and then > use the various Mac transfer programs or a power-mac to save it to a DOS > formatted disk ? Am I missing something ? I guess the only way to learn is > to try the exercise myself. > > As an aside there was a surplus dealer on the net that seemed to have a > ream of Diamond Trackstar cards going for $30 up to at least a year ago > when last I checked him and debated buying one. > > Lawrence From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jan 9 20:29:01 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: quest for pictures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For a couple of years now I've been toying with different photography setups with which to shoot pictures for my website. I've tried various stuff with my Canon A-1 35mm setup, both long and short lenes, as well as a couple of digital cameras, including the early Sony's with the built in floppy drive. Anyway, tonight I came across something interesting while in K-mart. They had a 'JamCam 3.0' by KD Gear Interactive for $49.00. The JamCam is a small digital camera with a 640 x 480 resolution, built-in flash, MultiMediaCard slot, USB port and serial connection for a PC. It includes cables and software for both PC and Mac. Now, I wasn't expecting much for that price but I've been wanting an inexpensive digital camera to use for various reasons so I bought it. Without an additional memory card, it will hold 8 - 640 x 480 images in 2MB of onboard memory and it runs off of a 9V battery. The images are as good as the $500 Sony digital cameras of a couple of years ago. Just thought I'd pass it on in case anyone else was looking for an inexpensive digital camera for various reasons. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From blstuart at bellsouth.net Wed Jan 9 20:39:37 2002 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: OT: DELL RULES! (RE: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic ga mes issue?) In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 9 Jan 2002 17:29:47 -0500 . <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225CD0@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: In message <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225CD0@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>, Dou glas Quebbeman writes: >> On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: >> >> > > > Huh?! That was the last piece of business I'll EVER do with Dell. >> > > >> > > Dell service sucks donkey cock. Computers: good. Service: very bad. >> > > >> > > F Dell! >> > >> > I have a Dell Inspiron 8000 that works very well. I've had >> > excellent results when I've had to call in for service. >> >> F Dell and it's namesake! > >Dell Sales sucks... >Dell technical support sucks... >Dell customer service sucks... > >But Dell peecees are the most stable peecees I've ever >seen. Their notebooks are the same Acers everyone else >sells. (N.B. It's really hard to edit this down to just what I'm replying to.) It's ironic that this thread came up today. A Dell I had in my office died this morning and it wasn't really a cheap or low end one. We've had a couple of these dual PIIs with pretty nice dual SCSI buses die in the same way. On the other hand, we've got a couple of rack mount dual P4s they loaned us for evaluation. I think they wanted to go head to head with the similar HPs we have. I've really been trying to hate both the HPs and the Dells, but I can't. They're almost real computers (except for the absence of blinking lights of course). Brian L. Stuart From doc at medhealth.com Wed Jan 9 20:51:22 2002 From: doc at medhealth.com (Thomas Callender) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: imsai for sale Message-ID: <120F5A17608DD311B4A3009027B1179114B322@MEDWIZ> I have an IMSAI box with a S100 bus, front panel and power suppy that I would like to sell. Can you direct me to the right site or group to attempt a sale? Thanks Tom C From mhstein at usa.net Wed Jan 9 19:27:42 2002 From: mhstein at usa.net (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS Message-ID: <01C1995C.64B04880@mse-d03> Well, yes, that is kinda obvious, but I'm not really inclined to upgrade before disposal. -------------------Original Message------------------- From: Lawrence LeMay > I'm about to get rid of my last Apple II clone Buy a super serial card on ebay and use it to transfer the files. - -Lawrence LeMay From mhstein at usa.net Wed Jan 9 20:10:40 2002 From: mhstein at usa.net (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS Message-ID: <01C1995C.688D0D80@mse-d03> From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" >No PROBLEM, just impossible. Ah well, problem solved then. >> I think with a little software I could transfer it to one of my PETs via the cassette port, and from there it would be trivial to get to a PC, but I'm hoping there's an easier way. >Really? The PC can't do PET disks, either. But you MIGHT be able to interface one of the aftermarket IEEE488 drives to the Pet with some trivial hardware, and then interface it to the PC, and just write a file system for it. Well, no, I wasn't thinking disk-to-disk: >But, if you have a serial port on the Pet, then it'll be easy. I do; as well as Centronics parallel & a P-S converter. As a matter of fact, I archive PC BIOS settings this way when setting up a new system: Plug a P-S converter into the printer port, connect the serial to a laptop, press PrintScreen on each BIOS page and suck it up on the laptop; format, print & save. And speaking of kludges, how's this: I have a client who periodically needs to get data off the network to a standalone separate computer; trouble is, the data is only available on an inquiry screen and corporate guidelines do not permit any foreign S/W on the NT client nor any attachments to the network. So what I did was connect serial-out of the standalone to a serial to PC keyboard converter, serial-in to the client serial-out, and direct client printer O/P to the serial port. The standalone goes through its list of accounts, sends out each account number and the code to bring up the inquiry screen on the serial port (which the client sees as keyboard input), waits a second for the screen to come up, sends a code to print the screen and sucks it back in on the serial port for de-formatting and storing. Slow and ugly, but kind of elegant in its kludginess... >Or maybe you could program the cassette port of a 5150? That did occur to me 'cause I just happen to have one, but I think Altzheimer's would have taken over by the time THAT project was finished... >> I have a CompatiCard I and Uniform, and I still have... >Those will be nice for doing MFM diskettes. No help at all for GCR (Apple and Commodore). That's kind of what I gathered from the previous thread; just thought I'd double check. >> the T300 that no one wanted which can do 96TPI 640K >If you DO figure out a use for it, let me know. Somewhere around here are a few of them. I patched PC-Write to run on it, but never came up with anything else to do with it. Eventually I gave one to Toshiba's MRI division, because they couldn't get one throught their main corporation. Well, it runs dBase II and 123 quite nicely, and I used something called SED for text editing, but even with those excellent expensive 640K 96TPI diskettes one does get used to hard disks. Mind you with all the CD-ROM swapping these days it sometimes seems that we've gone back to the dual-floppy days; thank goodness there is software to put those CD-ROMs on HD. Hate to toss it, seems like the 96TPI drives might be useful some day, it certainly is well built and I happen to have lots of docs, but alas... You haven't run across the CP/M86 for it by any chance? - -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From mhstein at usa.net Wed Jan 9 21:12:33 2002 From: mhstein at usa.net (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS Message-ID: <01C1995C.709A83E0@mse-d03> CBM -> PC isn't the problem; I've got a couple of CmC ADA IEEE-> S/P converters as well. The Cassette to Serial adapter sounds neat though. Getting from the Apple to the CBM is the problem; I think I've got software somewhere that'll connect the two cassette ports, but it'd take till next Xmas/Kwanzaa/Chanukah to find it. Was just hoping there was a quick & easy direct way, but assuming Ernest is going to take the clone, I'm going to include it and ask him to transfer the file(s) & email them back to me since he does have serial capability. Thanks anyway, guys. Always interesting and often very informative & helpful. mike ------------------------Original Message---------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 12:58:42 -0800 (PST) From: Ethan Dicks Subject: Re: Apple disk -> MSDOS - --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > I think with a little software I could transfer it > > to one of my PETs via the cassette port, and from there > > it would be trivial to get to a PC... > > Really? The PC can't do PET disks, either. But you MIGHT be able to > interface one of the aftermarket IEEE488 drives to the Pet with some > trivial hardware, and then interface it to the PC, and just write a file > system for it. An XE1541 cable is an easy enough item to build. If you have a 4040 or 2031 drive on your PET, you could hook a 1541 to the PC, the IEEE drive to the PET and sneaker-net stuff over. Marko Makela has a cool device that's about to hit the world - a cassette port dongle for all CBM machines that speaks to a "modern" machine over serial - you save to "cassette" from your PET, B500, C64, VIC-20, whatever, and run a virtual server on a serial line on a modern machine to scoop up the data. No funny software required on the CBM side. He has a prototype and pictures, but it's not quite available yet. I know there have been some projects to emulate an IEEE port from a PeeCee parallel port - enough to drive a 4040 floppy unit. If the software were there, it'd be easy enough to turn the PeeCee into a virtual disk drive. I think you could find the stuff already done. I don't think you'd have to roll your own code to do this. My X1541 cable also has a 6-pin C= cassette port on it. I have read many PET tapes directly from DOS with a real C2N tape recorder. It's not as reliable as floppies (especially if there's a head alignment problem), but it does work. Slow as molasses in January, though. Personally, the 170K floppy shuffle is the easiest way with the most common hardware. It does require that you have a couple of Commodore devices, but they aren't uncommon. Serial ports on PETs *are* (but I have a couple of IEEE<->RS-232 boxes from "TNW" and one ROM socket ACIA board. Still doesn't make them "common" though). - -ethan From dmabry at mich.com Wed Jan 9 21:12:49 2002 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: I love that ole "blue box" stuff Message-ID: <3C3D06B1.93F58965@mich.com> Someone has an Intel UPP on e-bay. I'm not sure how it could "appear to be functional", but maybe. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1320319997 -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From mhstein at usa.net Wed Jan 9 21:21:05 2002 From: mhstein at usa.net (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Tek scope service manuals Message-ID: <01C1995C.74A20260@mse-d03> Me three! For a 310A, definitely a classic spaceheater. BTW, I have a service manual for the 4006-1 Computer Display Terminal, if anybody needs any info on this fine piece. mike ------------------Original Message-------------------- From: "Charles E. Fox" Subject: Re: Tek scope service manuals At 03:44 PM 09/01/2002 -0600, you wrote: >Does anyone know of a source for Tek scope service manuals? > >Of specific interest are: 2246A and 2430A > >--tnx >--tom Me too, if anyone turns up info on the 604. From mhstein at usa.net Wed Jan 9 21:24:14 2002 From: mhstein at usa.net (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Old TV show Message-ID: <01C1995C.785D35A0@mse-d03> Just curious: anybody here ever see a TV show back in the 80's called Bits and Bytes, exploring the PETs, Apples, TI99's etc. of the day and starring Billy Van (Laugh-In) and Luba Goy (Cdn Air Farce)? mike From msell at ontimesupport.com Wed Jan 9 21:47:39 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: OT: DELL RULES! (RE: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic ga mes issue?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020109212428.02c35b18@127.0.0.1> For you Dell lovers out there, sorry. Dell can't make a laptop to save somebody's life. I'm on my third Dell laptop. It's not my choice - the company gets these junkballs for me. The first - power supply failure. Then, motherboard failure. The technicians couldn't understand how a battery could backfeed to the power supply. Can anyone say "diode"? The second - BIOS stupidity. After TWELVE revisions, they finally got the laptop to the point where it would handle PCMCIA devices and power off correctly without requiring a quick trip to BIOS to reconfigure HD settings every time it crashed. My third - my currect trashball. The power supply connecter is a piece of crap. The pins are too small for the current that is required by the PS when charging a battery and doing productive work. The pins heat up and distort the plastic plug. It then requires much effort to re-insert the plug. Dell can make some servers - in my opinion. I've dealt with them at various customer sites and I like them. As far as laptops go - .... pure shit. I know this is off topic, but after all of the productive work I have lost due to crappy Dell engineering, I'm mad as hell at them. Compaq is better - but the LCD screens on their Armadas need work. After about a year the plugs that connect the LCD to the motherboard loosen up and the screens start wacking out. I've seen this on three machines across two generations of Armadas. They ain't built like they used ta'. When we used to spend $2000 on a PC, we wanted a very high quality PC. We wanted an IBM, with a good warranty, and a salesman on the other end that will kill for our business. Now we get dweebs on the phone who try to tell us we are idiots because we actually think that their product might have a flaw. With a 6 to 9 month design to production cycle - who actually thinks that we as consumers are getting a decent product? Erf. Rant mode off. I hate PC's...... - Matt At 08:39 PM 1/9/2002 -0600, you wrote: >In message ><7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225CD0@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>, Dou >glas Quebbeman writes: > >> On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > >> > >> > > > Huh?! That was the last piece of business I'll EVER do with Dell. > >> > > > >> > > Dell service sucks donkey cock. Computers: good. Service: very bad. > >> > > > >> > > F Dell! > >> > > >> > I have a Dell Inspiron 8000 that works very well. I've had > >> > excellent results when I've had to call in for service. > >> > >> F Dell and it's namesake! > > > >Dell Sales sucks... > >Dell technical support sucks... > >Dell customer service sucks... > > > >But Dell peecees are the most stable peecees I've ever > >seen. Their notebooks are the same Acers everyone else > >sells. > >(N.B. It's really hard to edit this down to just what >I'm replying to.) > >It's ironic that this thread came up today. A Dell I >had in my office died this morning and it wasn't really >a cheap or low end one. We've had a couple of these dual >PIIs with pretty nice dual SCSI buses die in the same >way. > >On the other hand, we've got a couple of rack mount >dual P4s they loaned us for evaluation. I think they >wanted to go head to head with the similar HPs we have. >I've really been trying to hate both the HPs and the >Dells, but I can't. They're almost real computers >(except for the absence of blinking lights of course). > >Brian L. Stuart Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From CLeyson at aol.com Wed Jan 9 22:17:26 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Tek scope service manuals Message-ID: <173.1e41c54.296e6fd6@aol.com> >Does anyone know of a source for Tek scope service manuals? >Of specific interest are: 2246A and 2430A Try www.manualsplus.com. They have a good stock of HP and TEK manuals. Chris From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Wed Jan 9 22:25:02 2002 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: OT: DELL RULES! (RE: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic ga mes issue?) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020109212428.02c35b18@127.0.0.1> from Matthew Sell at "Jan 9, 2002 09:47:39 pm" Message-ID: <200201100425.UAA11028@jill.ssl.berkeley.edu> > I'm on my third Dell laptop. It's not my choice - the company gets these > junkballs for me I bought a second hand Latitude ci and just love it. > The second - BIOS stupidity. After TWELVE revisions, they finally got the > laptop to the point where it would handle PCMCIA devices and power off > correctly without requiring a quick trip to BIOS to reconfigure HD settings > every time it crashed. My BIOS is R7 and I've never had a problem (other than problems with the crappy OS). > My third - my currect trashball. The power supply connecter is a piece of > crap. The pins are too small for the current that is required by the PS > when charging a battery and doing productive work. The pins heat up and > distort the plastic plug. It then requires much effort to re-insert the plug. My laptop has been plugged in and powered on for about 3 days. The power connector isn't warm to the touch. I did have to replace a power supply after someone stepped on the plug. I don't have many complaints about my Dell desktop machine either. Eric From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 9 22:37:25 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Tek scope service manuals In-Reply-To: <173.1e41c54.296e6fd6@aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2002 CLeyson@aol.com wrote: > Try www.manualsplus.com. They have a good stock of HP and TEK manuals. They do have a good stock, and don't try to sell copies as originals, so you get what you order. The only downside is that their prices are typically higher then other companies...when those companies actually have the manual you want. -Toth From foxnhare at bigvalley.net Wed Jan 9 22:43:41 2002 From: foxnhare at bigvalley.net (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Starship simulator (was: VAX 11/780s...) References: <200201092230.g09MUM129558@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <3C3D1BEA.3CD51F55@bigvalley.net> Look for the book Star Ship Simulation by Roger Garrett - Dilithium press, it is a very well thought out full-fledged simulation idea (no real code, just a complete (I think) system structure for all the 'stations') Back then it would have been a monumental task to get all the computers and newtworking worked out but now it would be nearly a cake walk. > Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 15:37:12 -0600 (CST) > From: Jeffrey S. Sharp > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Starship simulator (was: VAX 11/780s...) > > On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > http://home.hetnet.nl/~tshaj/ > > Click in the 'star screen' for a real star-ship bridge. > > Yeah, that's what gave me the idea. I would add a few improvements: > > * It will require a group of people. This will encourage teamwork and > role-playing among the players. > > * It will be much bigger. Think NCC-1701-D bridge. > > * Things will move, shake, and explode. Yes, you'll have to sign > a waiver. No, it won't be handicapped-accessible. That said, risk of > injury should be minimal. > > * An entire colleciton of classicmp hardware running most of it. -- 01000011 01001111 01001101 01001101 01001111 01000100 01001111 01010010 01000101 Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (209) 754-1363 300-14.4k bps Set your 8-bit C= rigs to sail for http://www.portcommodore.com/ 01000011 01001111 01001101 01010000 01010101 01010100 01000101 01010010 01010011 From foxnhare at bigvalley.net Wed Jan 9 22:53:16 2002 From: foxnhare at bigvalley.net (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Starship simulator (was: VAX 11/780s...) References: <200201092230.g09MUM129558@ns2.ezwind.net> <3C3D1BEA.3CD51F55@bigvalley.net> Message-ID: <3C3D1E28.6D54DEEE@bigvalley.net> While looking for the details on that book I cam across this site: http://home.hetnet.nl/~tshaj/ncc1701site/ncc1701startpage.html Which is one man's mini-star ship simulator, very facinating read. Wish all the pictures were there. :-/ Larry Anderson wrote: > > Look for the book Star Ship Simulation by Roger Garrett - Dilithium > press, it is a very well thought out full-fledged simulation idea (no > real code, just a complete (I think) system structure for all the > 'stations') Back then it would have been a monumental task to get all > the computers and newtworking worked out but now it would be nearly a > cake walk. > -- 01000011 01001111 01001101 01001101 01001111 01000100 01001111 01010010 01000101 Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (209) 754-1363 300-14.4k bps Set your 8-bit C= rigs to sail for http://www.portcommodore.com/ 01000011 01001111 01001101 01010000 01010101 01010100 01000101 01010010 01010011 From mhstein at usa.net Wed Jan 9 22:53:00 2002 From: mhstein at usa.net (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Musicians (and computer music) Message-ID: <01C19968.CAD834E0@mse-d03> You do know that Hal Chamberlin (who came up with that mini-mini) was THE MAN as far as PET music was concerned in those days? Maybe he's got something to contribute to posterity when he gets back from Korea. mike -------------------------Original Message-------------------- From: Ethan Dicks Subject: Musicians (and computer music) (was RE: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment) ObClassic: Does anyone have any software for making music on the PET with *other* than CB2 sound? I had a buddy with a clip-on user port music card - it was an 8-bit D-to-A like a Disney Sound Source. The PET shoved bytes out the user port and they appoximated music. I can't remember what it was called. From msell at ontimesupport.com Wed Jan 9 23:09:02 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: OT: DELL RULES! (RE: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic ga mes issue?) In-Reply-To: <200201100425.UAA11028@jill.ssl.berkeley.edu> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020109212428.02c35b18@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020109230634.028df6e0@127.0.0.1> Of course, your mileage may vary. Those were just my observations. Of course, my opinions on what are good products are different that what others may perceive. I use my computers quite differently than most. I'm constantly compiling and editing, and basically driving them in a different fashion than the average user. I also have a reliable American sports car. Imagine that!!!! - Matt P.S. I also did have another American sports car that was junk. Oh well...... At 08:25 PM 1/9/2002 -0800, you wrote: > > I'm on my third Dell laptop. It's not my choice - the company gets these > > junkballs for me > >I bought a second hand Latitude ci and just love it. > > > The second - BIOS stupidity. After TWELVE revisions, they finally got the > > laptop to the point where it would handle PCMCIA devices and power off > > correctly without requiring a quick trip to BIOS to reconfigure HD > settings > > every time it crashed. > >My BIOS is R7 and I've never had a problem (other than problems with the >crappy >OS). > > > My third - my currect trashball. The power supply connecter is a piece of > > crap. The pins are too small for the current that is required by the PS > > when charging a battery and doing productive work. The pins heat up and > > distort the plastic plug. It then requires much effort to re-insert the > plug. > >My laptop has been plugged in and powered on for about 3 days. The power >connector isn't warm to the touch. I did have to replace a power supply after >someone stepped on the plug. > >I don't have many complaints about my Dell desktop machine either. > >Eric Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jan 9 23:12:14 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: imsai for sale References: <120F5A17608DD311B4A3009027B1179114B322@MEDWIZ> Message-ID: <000901c19995$5dcd5880$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If you're looking for the best monetary result, your best bet would be the eBay auction. They bring pretty good money there. It's anybody's guess what you'd get here. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Callender" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 7:51 PM Subject: imsai for sale > I have an IMSAI box with a S100 bus, front panel and power suppy that I > would like to sell. Can you direct me to the right site or group to attempt > a sale? Thanks Tom C > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jan 9 23:14:45 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Tek scope service manuals References: Message-ID: <001501c19995$b8314ca0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> GAWD! Those guys don't even list what they've got! You'd think they'd have joined the 20th century at least, now that we're into the 21st. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 9:37 PM Subject: Re: Tek scope service manuals > On Wed, 9 Jan 2002 CLeyson@aol.com wrote: > > > Try www.manualsplus.com. They have a good stock of HP and TEK manuals. > > They do have a good stock, and don't try to sell copies as originals, so > you get what you order. The only downside is that their prices are > typically higher then other companies...when those companies actually have > the manual you want. > > -Toth > > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jan 9 20:00:16 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Starship simulator (was: VAX 11/780s...) References: <200201092230.g09MUM129558@ns2.ezwind.net> <3C3D1BEA.3CD51F55@bigvalley.net> Message-ID: <3C3CF5B0.B31813E8@jetnet.ab.ca> Larry Anderson wrote: > > Look for the book Star Ship Simulation by Roger Garrett - Dilithium > press, it is a very well thought out full-fledged simulation idea (no > real code, just a complete (I think) system structure for all the > 'stations') Back then it would have been a monumental task to get all > the computers and newtworking worked out but now it would be nearly a > cake walk. > **** OFF TOPIC **** I say dump this simulation idea and build the real thing! We have the computing power! NASA is busy building BIG projects because the Aero-space companies make more money this way on R&D stuff than building a simple-reusable space craft and putting ORDANARY people in space! ********************* -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 9 23:26:12 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:26 2005 Subject: Tek scope service manuals In-Reply-To: <001501c19995$b8314ca0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > GAWD! Those guys don't even list what they've got! You'd think they'd have > joined the 20th century at least, now that we're into the 21st. Really? Last time I checked, they had an on-line inventory system. They had most all the manuals I need for my vintage test gear too...just wanted more then I wanted to pay for em. -Toth From ysgdhio at yahoo.com Wed Jan 9 23:29:09 2002 From: ysgdhio at yahoo.com (ysgdhio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: quest for pictures In-Reply-To: ; from Jeff Hellige on Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 09:29:01PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20020110002908.A2201@spies.com> Jeff Hellige writes: > 'JamCam 3.0' by KD Gear Interactive for $49.00 Not to burst your bubble, but compgeeks.com has them for $37 (and less): http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=KG-JC3B-CS I got mine for $20 at a thrift shop. I think you'll find the quality of the pictures it takes is just "okay", and then only for well-lit outdoors shots. It's not that great for indoor stuff or close-up work. It also burns through batteries fairly quickly. Apparently every time you turn the camera on, it charges the flash. There is a setting to turn the flash off, but turning the camera off will cause it to forget that setting. However, on the bright side... if you run Linux, you can use gPhoto 2.0 to download the pictures from it. http://gphoto.org/ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jan 9 23:48:30 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: Commodore laptop: was "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: <3C3CA494.24814.1EF13CAA@localhost> from Lawrence Walker at "Jan 9, 2 08:14:12 pm" Message-ID: <200201100548.VAA10894@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Cameron and all Commodore "Gurus". I posted this before with no response. > I have a nice little Commodore Laptop for which I don't have a power supply > adaptor. C386SX-LT "made in Japan" "Funkenstort n. Vfg 1046/84". > I would suspect it was put out by Commodore Germany. > The only reference I've been able to find is for a battery for it. It's 16 v. > The AC adaptor port is an female 8-pin mini-din like the Mac ones. Anyone > have any info as to the pinout so I could make a plug or adaptor for it ? Unfortunately, I am beyond ultimately ignorant with the Commodore PC line (for that matter, I'm hardly serviceable with Amigas either). Maybe someone on cbm-hackers knows, if you read that list. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- To err is human -- to forgive is not company policy. ----------------------- From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jan 9 23:49:43 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: Tek scope service manuals References: Message-ID: <001301c1999a$9a5d3ea0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well ... it must be asleep. I wasn't even able to find a reference to it, though, so something's amiss. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 10:26 PM Subject: Re: Tek scope service manuals > On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > GAWD! Those guys don't even list what they've got! You'd think they'd have > > joined the 20th century at least, now that we're into the 21st. > > Really? Last time I checked, they had an on-line inventory system. They > had most all the manuals I need for my vintage test gear too...just wanted > more then I wanted to pay for em. > > -Toth > > From CLeyson at aol.com Thu Jan 10 00:04:07 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: Tek scope service manuals Message-ID: <2f.20860f5b.296e88d7@aol.com> In a message dated 09/01/02 edick@idcomm.com writes: > Well ... it must be asleep. I wasn't even able to find a reference to it, > though, so something's amiss. > > Dick > Type 2430 into the search engine under Model No. I know their search engine leaves a bit to be desired but I used them to buy an HP service manual. The best I could get in Europe was a photocopy AND it cost more than the originals from ManualsPlus. Try http://www.big-list.com/usedmanu.html. It's a comprehesive list of service manual dealers. Good Luck Chris From curt at atari-history.com Thu Jan 10 00:35:51 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: Old TV show References: <01C1995C.785D35A0@mse-d03> Message-ID: <000901c199a1$0dfa0cc0$85b1ff0a@cvendel> I don't remember that one, but I do remember the Computer Cronicles.... they used to have a Radio Show every Sunday night at 9pm or so, then I recall they had a TV show for a while after that, I think on PBS Public Educational TV here in NYC, don't know where else. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "M H Stein" To: "'ClassicComputers'" Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 10:24 PM Subject: Old TV show > Just curious: anybody here ever see a TV show back > in the 80's called Bits and Bytes, exploring the > PETs, Apples, TI99's etc. of the day and starring > Billy Van (Laugh-In) and Luba Goy (Cdn Air Farce)? > > mike > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jan 10 02:13:11 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: Continuing PDP11 saga In-Reply-To: Tom Leffingwell "Re: Continuing PDP11 saga" (Jan 9, 20:54) References: Message-ID: <10201100813.ZM23970@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 9, 20:54, Tom Leffingwell wrote: > Besides being able to map memory up to 2MW, is there any advantage > to being 22-bit over 18-bit? Not that I can think of. > Also, can you think of any cheaply available Q-bus module that I > could set the address of to match the ADV11? I called 3 surplus places, > all of whom wanted $750 - $1,000 for their ADV11's! I talked one guy down > to $350 for one with a bad A-D converter, but was still addressable. > That's still a lot, especially for a broken board. Ouch! Sorry, I can't think of anything else offhand. Besides, if the software is checking for the presence of the board, it might write some initialisation value to it and try to read its status back. That would most likely fail if you had the wrong device at that address. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Thu Jan 10 04:09:53 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: Compukit UK101 Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021A06@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Sent: 09 January 2002 21:18 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Compukit UK101 > > Sounds good so far. IIRC the UK101 will display 'garbage' at > switch-on. > Just the random contents of the video memory (the video > display circuitry > doesn't need to be configured by software, so it'll display > this even if > the CPU isn't doing anything). Thanks Tony! Star man once again :) I'll be annoyed if I've been defeated by a caps lock key! I know what I'm doing tonight now....... -- Adrian Graham, Corporate Microsystems Ltd e: adrian.graham@corporatemicrosystems.com w: www.corporatemicrosystems.com w2: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Online Computer Museum) From GOOI at oce.nl Thu Jan 10 04:17:29 2002 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: Starship simulator (was: VAX 11/780s...) Message-ID: Ok, I read all comments, but I think this thread is not completely for CC... If you read the starship website, you know my name, Henk. I reply to give some more information on my project. The Starship project started in 1982, AFAIRemember. However, as a young boy, I went to the attick and play with some switches, batteries and lamps after seeing an episode of "The Thunderbirds". So, I wished I had more free time. I have many ideas to implement but *lack* the time to do it. Indeed, one of the ideas is mounting everything on a sort of X-Y table so that it can shake a little. When you have no visual contact with you surroundings, a little shake can fool you brain quite good. I have mounted a bass loudspeaker to the rear of the car seat, the "captain's chair", and feeding it sub-audible tones you feel vibration as an add-on effect/experience. I must admit that dreaming/thinking about it is fun. Realising some of it in the end gives me a 'good' feeling, as does all comment on this website. I enjoy reading other people's comment on my starship project. It 'fuels' me to put effort in expanding the website and adding more pictures to it. And of course expanding my starship! With last Xmas I got a Nikon Coolpix 885, so expect additions to the site the coming months. I will add a link to tell about new additions. For more questions/remarks, don't hesitate to write to me. That is henk.gooijen@12move.nl or gooi@oce.nl > Look for the book Star Ship Simulation by Roger Garrett That's what got me infected! > [snip] > but now it would be nearly a cake walk. I wouldn't agree on that. The longer you think about it, and work out more detail (hardware, switches, meters, etc.) the more elaborate/complex things become. Live long and prosper, - Henk. From foxvideo at wincom.net Thu Jan 10 05:21:58 2002 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: Bought an IBM 5362 -- so now what do I do with this thing? In-Reply-To: <126.9e9d090.296e41ed@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020110062050.00b8c7a0@mail.wincom.net> At 08:01 PM 09/01/2002 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 1/9/2002 7:41:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, >out2sea00@yahoo.com writes: > ><< I'm trying to track down resources for IBM System/36 > and the model 5362. I just Ebay'd one (momentary > insanity) and I need to start putting together all the > apocrypha to go with it. All I'm getting is the system > unit. I need to try and track down software, manuals > and a display station first. Any pointers or > assistance would be just lovely, and greatly > appreciated. > > Thanks, > Colin Eby > Senior Consultant > CSC Consulting >> > >I've a 5364, probably the same. anybody else got one? >Mine's a desktop form factor and was lucky to get the dual floppy 5150 pc >that seems to control it. I use the 5150 to IPL the 5364 and takes about 5 >minutes. eventually I get a passwoid prompt and I dont know what it is. I'm >not sure how the menus work. also got with it a 3194 twinax terminal but no >keyboard so I can't use that right now. both units came with disks in their >drives but not sure what their content is. I really should make a writeup >about this beast on my collection site. It's really quite impressive. > >-- >Antique Computer Virtual Museum >www.nothingtodo.org I have a 5363 in my collection, but haven't managed to get any info on it. Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From foxvideo at wincom.net Thu Jan 10 05:24:36 2002 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: imsai for sale In-Reply-To: <120F5A17608DD311B4A3009027B1179114B322@MEDWIZ> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020110062403.00bb5e38@mail.wincom.net> At 08:51 PM 09/01/2002 -0600, you wrote: >I have an IMSAI box with a S100 bus, front panel and power suppy that I >would like to sell. Can you direct me to the right site or group to attempt >a sale? Thanks Tom C Watch out you don't get trampled in the rush. Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Jan 10 12:11:24 2002 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: Test - Ignore References: Message-ID: <3C3DD94C.5200BCF5@idirect.com> Test From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jan 10 05:51:55 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225CD2@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Sellam- Thet was Eric Dittman, not me! But I *did* write the "DELL RULES" one... ;) > -----Original Message----- > From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 5:43 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic > games issue? > > > On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > No, I've had the miniPCI MODEM replaced as my system was > shipped with > > the Actiontec and I had specified the 3Com, so Dell sent a tech to > > swap the card. I also had the SXGA+ screen replaced twice. > The first > > screen developed a flicker, so they sent a tech to replace > the screen. > > I didn't the the second screen looked even, so they had a second > > screen replacement installed. I didn't have to make up any > excuse, I > > just told tech support I was unhappy with the way the LCD looked. > > Finally, I had a problem with the mouse developing a mind > of its own. > > The keyboard (with built-in eraser-head pointer) was replaced, and > > when the problem reoccurred they sent a new palmrest (which has the > > touchpad built-in), which fixed the problem. > > So, in other words, your laptop basically sucked as far as > quality goes? > :) > > > Each time the techs arrived the next day, with the replacement part > > and tools, and the techs (I've had three different techs) all knew > > what they were doing. > > Dell on-site tech support is subbed out to local contractors who are > supposed to be "Dell certified" or whatever. So that > explains why some > people may have good service, and others lousy, when it comes > to on-site > support. It depends on the local contractor. > > > So yes, I've had problems, and yes, Dell did give me outstanding > > support and service. > > Again, you got lucky. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 10 06:26:07 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? References: Message-ID: <3C3D885F.CFD0C77E@verizon.net> > go with a cheap LOCAL vendor But if you pick the cheapest, you may find they underestimated what it took to run a profitable company that will survive, and 6 months later are out of business. I've seen it. People that bought from cheap local vendors that offered 5 year, even lifetime, warranties, gone, gone, gone. They come and go like sand on the beach. If they want a cheap PC, they have probably doomed themselves to failure from the outset. Chris wrote: > > >> It would seem the majority of people I confer with have nothing but pain > >> and anguish leading to murderous thoughts when dealing with Dell. > >> > >> F Dell and it's namesake! > > > >I wonder why the disparity exists? > > Maybe because once upon a time, Dell's were actually good. > > For some time, I had recommended them. Their PCs were tanks. You could > beat the hell out of them, and they kept working. And they were good > solid components that worked with default installs of windows 95 and NT > 4. Support was even once great (knowledgeable, polite, fast). > > And then they grew... and cut costs to stay in business... and went into > the crapper like just about every other consumer PC company. > > Now, when people tell me they are going to buy a PC, and ask who I > recommend... I tell them with a straight honest face... I recommend NO > ONE for home use. I can't honestly think of a single good company > building consumer level windows boxes. Between them all putting in > cheaper and cheaper parts, and MS making windows... well more windows > like, I can't think of any company that can get it right, and get it > right consistently. > > So now I ask people WHY they are buying a windows PC. Everyone seems to > have one of two answers. 1: to play games (I tell them to buy a > Playstation 2), or 2: to get online (I tell them to buy a cheap used low > end PII and throw a ton of ram into it). Everyone that doesn't fit one of > those two... I tell them to learn enough to build their own, or just go > with a cheap LOCAL vendor (so you have someone you can throw the machine > at when it craps out for the 100th time), or buy a Macintosh. > > -chris > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jan 10 06:17:56 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <3C3D885F.CFD0C77E@verizon.net> References: <3C3D885F.CFD0C77E@verizon.net> Message-ID: <02Jan10.083405est.119530@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> > > go with a cheap LOCAL vendor > >But if you pick the cheapest, you may find they underestimated >what it took to run a profitable company that will survive, and >6 months later are out of business. > >I've seen it. People that bought from cheap local vendors that >offered 5 year, even lifetime, warranties, gone, gone, gone. > >They come and go like sand on the beach. > >If they want a cheap PC, they have probably doomed themselves >to failure from the outset. It's not only the little mom&pop local vendors that disappear like that though. I'm sure everyone on this list can come up with quite a few major PC makers that have come and gone since '81. The companies are the industry darling one year and in big financial trouble a couple of years later. Gateway is a current maker that comes to mind with the likes of ALR and AST being in the past. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 10 06:49:30 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? References: <200201100026.g0A0QoE13931@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3C3D8DDA.5801DAC5@verizon.net> > Most people would just trash the bad part > and not bother with returning Also, unfortunately, in the world as it exists today, there are some people that would go through this, just to try to scam an extra free part out of the company. They have to protect themselves against this. Eric Dittman wrote: > > > On the other hand, at my last business I had nothing but problems with > > Dell and their shitty tech "support". I had the same problem others have > > described--needing them to send a replacement part for defective hardware > > and being asked to send in the entire unit so that it could be repaired > > there, otherwise they would want a credit card number to secure the > > replacement part! What kind of shit is that? Of course, this is after > > you have to go through all the asinine motions with their support drones > > that you've already done. > > Okay, let me get this straight. You bought a system without > onsite warranty, so when they ask you to send the entire > system in to be repaired (which is the usual business practice > I've seen from Sony and Compaq, too), you get upset? You then > ask to get the replacement part sent to you as an advance > replacement and you don't want to give them a credit card > number for a deposit (which is the way most vendors handle > advance replacement), so you get upset at that, too? I find > it entirely reasonable that Dell ask for a credit card number > as a deposit to secure the transaction to insure you send the > faulty part back. Most people would just trash the bad part > and not bother with returning it once they got the good part > if there wasn't a financial incentive. > > It sounds like the problem is in not understanding the warranty > and the difference between on-site and mail-in repair coverage. > I paid extra for the on-site coverage so I don't have to worry > about mailing my system in or providing a credit card number as > a deposit on an advance replacement. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From mythtech at Mac.com Thu Jan 10 09:25:40 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? Message-ID: >But if you pick the cheapest, you may find they underestimated >what it took to run a profitable company that will survive, and >6 months later are out of business. > >I've seen it. People that bought from cheap local vendors that >offered 5 year, even lifetime, warranties, gone, gone, gone. > >They come and go like sand on the beach. > >If they want a cheap PC, they have probably doomed themselves >to failure from the outset. I agree, but still, my attitude has become (due to years of dealing with windows and the declining quality of PC hardware), that you can spend $3000 on a PC, or you can spend $300 on a PC, and they are both going to work (quality/stability wise) about the same. Either way, you will wind up with problems keeping windows running. Granted 99% of this is due to windows sucking so bad (if you aren't planning on running windows, then this is a totally different situation, but I am only dealing with advise I give to prospective Wintel buyers). As for if a company will be here in 5 years to support the PC, there are no bets that ANY computer company that is here today will still be here 5 years from now. (perfect example of this. A few years ago, my fire department decided to switch from a Mac to a PC since we need to upgrade the computer anyway. The PC people argued that Apple wouldn't be here in 5 years, so don't get a Mac. Us Mac people pointed out that it doesn't matter, because in 5 years the computer will be ready to upgrade anyway. Well, the vote went to get a PC... and to buy a Packard Bell. Well... Apple is still selling Macs... and Packard Bell... well... they are the ones that are gone... so the computer was replaced AGAIN, this time with a Gateway... who now looks to be dying) But I would still support people going to a fly by night, and risk them going under. I don't advise getting long term support contracts anymore, simply because I am so unimpressed with the support you can get. Phone support tends to be luck of the draw. 90% of the time you get a brainless bonehead. On site tends to be just as bad (I might be in one of those "bad contract support" areas for the local "on site" support options... don't know). So why pay 5 times the price to get a "brand name", when it is going to give you the same headaches as the cheaper CompUSA sold, or mom & pop sold PC. At least if you buy from a local vendor (CompUSA, or a mom&pop), you can carry the computer in to them and bitch to a person... you aren't stuck with phone support. And buy going with a cheap mom&pop... you are more likely to get them to fix it. CompUSA will tell you to contact the computer maker. Although, I do hear good things about the local Gateway Country store in doing on the fly repairs on a carry in. But honestly, I just don't recommend Wintel machines AT ALL anymore. I really tell people to look around and find another option. If you want if for games get a console system, if you want it for internet access, get a used PC (I recommend used Win systems over used Macs for an internet only machine, simply because, like it or not, many web sites cater to windows and IE... that and many of the people that ask me about an internet only machine want AOL, and the windows AOL client is much better than the Mac one), and if you want it for general computing, get a Macintosh. Windows blows, and is no longer worth the money and heartache for new machines unless you NEED it for some reason. But that is just my opinion. -chris From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 10 15:02:02 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? References: Message-ID: <3C3E014A.ED587CD0@verizon.net> Chris, > $3000 on a PC, or you can spend $300 on a PC, and they are both > going to work (quality/stability wise) about the same. I really think the cheaper the hardware is, statistically speaking, the more problematic it will be. Lower selling cost goes hand in hand with less competent and lower paid designers, programmers ( for device drivers ), smaller support staff, less design and testing time alloted, minimalized QC, etc. > Either way, you will wind up with problems keeping windows > running. Granted 99% of this is due to windows sucking so bad I've often said, windows is a pretty good operating system, until you put some programs on it. Is it the fault of windows itself, or is it less than perfect programming on the part of the third party companies that write the additional programs, the device drivers, etc that we use, to write their software to be rock solid running over windows? I can't deny that microsoft may have secrets they won't share, but I can't absolutely confirm it either. I have a feeling that if one were to set up a windows machine with the best quality hardware they could get, and use primarily only microsoft operating systems and applications, they won't have near as many problems with it. > there are no bets that ANY computer company that is here > today will still be here 5 years from now. I agree. It's such a competetive market, even one mistake may mean death. > At least if you buy from a local vendor (CompUSA, or a mom&pop), > you can carry the computer in to them and bitch to a person... If you buy from a Office Depot or JC Penny's or some place that only sells them and doesn't work on them theirselves, you're asking for trouble, even though they might be local. CompUSA may be the better bet, but I don't consider them just local. But look at how Computer City failed too. I find the motherboard is the heart of the system. I only consider a mainboard from a company that has a web site with docs, bios updates, etc online. Usually better quality productions. I used to see the booklets that came with a mobo that didn't even say what company produced them. We called them ROCs, as in made in Taiwan, Republic of China. But actually they started producing some very good quality stuff in Taiwan, but then when we got more friendly with China, some manufacturing moved there, to again lower the costs. I avoid computer components made in China like the plague. Chris wrote: > > >But if you pick the cheapest, you may find they underestimated > >what it took to run a profitable company that will survive, and > >6 months later are out of business. > > > >I've seen it. People that bought from cheap local vendors that > >offered 5 year, even lifetime, warranties, gone, gone, gone. > > > >They come and go like sand on the beach. > > > >If they want a cheap PC, they have probably doomed themselves > >to failure from the outset. > > I agree, but still, my attitude has become (due to years of dealing with > windows and the declining quality of PC hardware), that you can spend > $3000 on a PC, or you can spend $300 on a PC, and they are both going to > work (quality/stability wise) about the same. Either way, you will wind > up with problems keeping windows running. Granted 99% of this is due to > windows sucking so bad (if you aren't planning on running windows, then > this is a totally different situation, but I am only dealing with advise > I give to prospective Wintel buyers). > > As for if a company will be here in 5 years to support the PC, there are > no bets that ANY computer company that is here today will still be here 5 > years from now. (perfect example of this. A few years ago, my fire > department decided to switch from a Mac to a PC since we need to upgrade > the computer anyway. The PC people argued that Apple wouldn't be here in > 5 years, so don't get a Mac. Us Mac people pointed out that it doesn't > matter, because in 5 years the computer will be ready to upgrade anyway. > Well, the vote went to get a PC... and to buy a Packard Bell. Well... > Apple is still selling Macs... and Packard Bell... well... they are the > ones that are gone... so the computer was replaced AGAIN, this time with > a Gateway... who now looks to be dying) > > But I would still support people going to a fly by night, and risk them > going under. I don't advise getting long term support contracts anymore, > simply because I am so unimpressed with the support you can get. Phone > support tends to be luck of the draw. 90% of the time you get a brainless > bonehead. On site tends to be just as bad (I might be in one of those > "bad contract support" areas for the local "on site" support options... > don't know). So why pay 5 times the price to get a "brand name", when it > is going to give you the same headaches as the cheaper CompUSA sold, or > mom & pop sold PC. At least if you buy from a local vendor (CompUSA, or a > mom&pop), you can carry the computer in to them and bitch to a person... > you aren't stuck with phone support. And buy going with a cheap > mom&pop... you are more likely to get them to fix it. CompUSA will tell > you to contact the computer maker. Although, I do hear good things about > the local Gateway Country store in doing on the fly repairs on a carry in. > > But honestly, I just don't recommend Wintel machines AT ALL anymore. I > really tell people to look around and find another option. If you want if > for games get a console system, if you want it for internet access, get a > used PC (I recommend used Win systems over used Macs for an internet only > machine, simply because, like it or not, many web sites cater to windows > and IE... that and many of the people that ask me about an internet only > machine want AOL, and the windows AOL client is much better than the Mac > one), and if you want it for general computing, get a Macintosh. Windows > blows, and is no longer worth the money and heartache for new machines > unless you NEED it for some reason. But that is just my opinion. > > -chris > > From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 10 12:02:49 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <200201100026.g0A0QoE13931@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > On the other hand, at my last business I had nothing but problems with > > Dell and their shitty tech "support". I had the same problem others have > > described--needing them to send a replacement part for defective hardware > > and being asked to send in the entire unit so that it could be repaired > > there, otherwise they would want a credit card number to secure the > > replacement part! What kind of shit is that? Of course, this is after > > you have to go through all the asinine motions with their support drones > > that you've already done. > > Okay, let me get this straight. You bought a system without > onsite warranty, so when they ask you to send the entire > system in to be repaired (which is the usual business practice > I've seen from Sony and Compaq, too), you get upset? You then Well, aside from making lame assumptions about my experience, I don't know what incident you are referring to. We DID have onsite repair for the desktop. The hard drive was shot. It was dead. Since this hard drive had important data on it, and the last backup was a week prior, we needed to see if we could have the data recovered so we sent it off to a local data recovery house. In the meantime, we asked Dell to send out a tech with a new hard drive. But they wouldn't do so after we explained we'd already sent off the hard drive for data recovery. THEIR stupid tech support procedures were more important than their customer's business operations. F DELL! > ask to get the replacement part sent to you as an advance > replacement and you don't want to give them a credit card > number for a deposit (which is the way most vendors handle > advance replacement), so you get upset at that, too? I find Bullshit. We'd been doing business with Dell for about 6 months by then and had several orders. If they couldn't trust us by that time then screw them. I've never had that kind of treatment from any other hardware vendor. F DELL! > it entirely reasonable that Dell ask for a credit card number > as a deposit to secure the transaction to insure you send the > faulty part back. Most people would just trash the bad part > and not bother with returning it once they got the good part > if there wasn't a financial incentive. So you've run a survey and have analyzed the results and have concluded scientifically that this is what "people" would do? Or you're just trying to defend Dell for the sake of nothing else to stick up for today and are coming up with these silly arguments? F DELL! > It sounds like the problem is in not understanding the warranty > and the difference between on-site and mail-in repair coverage. > I paid extra for the on-site coverage so I don't have to worry > about mailing my system in or providing a credit card number as > a deposit on an advance replacement. It sounds like someone would rather argue for the sake of arguing. I won't doubt you had a good experience. I, on the other hand, and many other people (a not insignificant number), have had terrible experiences with them and that makes the company suspect on a broad level. If you want to be Dell's cheerleader then go ahead and don the mini-skirt and pompoms for them. Rah rah sis boom bah. F DELL! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dittman at dittman.net Thu Jan 10 12:19:39 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jan 10, 2002 10:02:49 AM Message-ID: <200201101819.g0AIJdR16567@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > On the other hand, at my last business I had nothing but problems with > > > Dell and their shitty tech "support". I had the same problem others have > > > described--needing them to send a replacement part for defective hardware > > > and being asked to send in the entire unit so that it could be repaired > > > there, otherwise they would want a credit card number to secure the > > > replacement part! What kind of shit is that? Of course, this is after > > > you have to go through all the asinine motions with their support drones > > > that you've already done. > > > > Okay, let me get this straight. You bought a system without > > onsite warranty, so when they ask you to send the entire > > system in to be repaired (which is the usual business practice > > I've seen from Sony and Compaq, too), you get upset? You then > > Well, aside from making lame assumptions about my experience, I don't know > what incident you are referring to. They way you described the incident implied you didn't have on-site coverage. > We DID have onsite repair for the desktop. The hard drive was shot. It > was dead. Since this hard drive had important data on it, and the last > backup was a week prior, we needed to see if we could have the data > recovered so we sent it off to a local data recovery house. In the > meantime, we asked Dell to send out a tech with a new hard drive. But > they wouldn't do so after we explained we'd already sent off the hard > drive for data recovery. THEIR stupid tech support procedures were more > important than their customer's business operations. You did things your own way, which weren't compatible with the rules covering on-site repairs. That's why all the policies are laid out in advance, so you can't create your own and hold Dell to them. If you want special treatment, you need to negotiate this ahead of time. > > ask to get the replacement part sent to you as an advance > > replacement and you don't want to give them a credit card > > number for a deposit (which is the way most vendors handle > > advance replacement), so you get upset at that, too? I find > > Bullshit. We'd been doing business with Dell for about 6 months by then > and had several orders. If they couldn't trust us by that time then screw > them. I've never had that kind of treatment from any other hardware > vendor. Six whole months! Wow, they sure had a lot of history with your company to base this one. > > it entirely reasonable that Dell ask for a credit card number > > as a deposit to secure the transaction to insure you send the > > faulty part back. Most people would just trash the bad part > > and not bother with returning it once they got the good part > > if there wasn't a financial incentive. > > So you've run a survey and have analyzed the results and have concluded > scientifically that this is what "people" would do? Or you're just trying > to defend Dell for the sake of nothing else to stick up for today and are > coming up with these silly arguments? You are the one with silly arguments. You expect a company to bend over and kiss your ass just because you've been dealing with them for six months? I don't need to run a survey. I'm basing this on what I've seen and what other people have described to me. > > It sounds like the problem is in not understanding the warranty > > and the difference between on-site and mail-in repair coverage. > > I paid extra for the on-site coverage so I don't have to worry > > about mailing my system in or providing a credit card number as > > a deposit on an advance replacement. > > It sounds like someone would rather argue for the sake of arguing. I > won't doubt you had a good experience. I, on the other hand, and many > other people (a not insignificant number), have had terrible experiences > with them and that makes the company suspect on a broad level. If you > want to be Dell's cheerleader then go ahead and don the mini-skirt and > pompoms for them. Rah rah sis boom bah. No, I'm not Dell's cheerleader, but I am offering alternate opinions. >From what you've described above, it sounds like your problems with Dell are due to your attitude. And since you brought up surveys, did you run one to find a not insignificant number of people with problems, or are you arguing just for the sake of arguing. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 10 13:01:10 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <200201101819.g0AIJdR16567@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > No, I'm not Dell's cheerleader, but I am offering alternate opinions. > >From what you've described above, it sounds like your problems with > Dell are due to your attitude. No, my problem with Dell stems from their sometimes shitty hardware and their mostly shitty technical support. F DELL! > And since you brought up surveys, did you run one to find a not > insignificant number of people with problems, or are you arguing > just for the sake of arguing. I'm arguing just for the sake of pointing out that Dell sucks. F DELL! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 10 12:24:06 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <200201100034.g0A0YBT13953@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > So, in other words, your laptop basically sucked as far as quality goes? > > No, not really. They shipped the wrong modem (the Actiontec worked, but > I wanted the 3Com), and they swapped for the right one. > > The screen flicker could have been due to the fact that this is a > laptop, and does get shook around sometime. They didn't balk at > swapping the replacement LCD with another one just because I didn't > like the new one (I think most people wouldn't have complained). All > three LCDs had no bad pixles, BTW. The mouse problem was due to me > being in the habit of holding the laptop (with the screen open, which > adds extra strain) in one hand on the right-front corner when I move > around while I'm working and putting extra strain on the case, which > caused flexing and damaged the touchpad. So in other words, you were wasting valuable tech support resources for your non-issues while people like me suffered? Thanks! > I know other people that have good experience. As usual, most people > only hear about the bad experiences. Oh yeah? Name them. If it was one crackpot on a Usenet newsgroup ranting about it, I'd ignore it. If it's more than several crackpots, it's a real issue. At best, their product quality and customer service could be considered inconsistent. That's definitely not good. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dittman at dittman.net Thu Jan 10 12:46:37 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jan 10, 2002 10:24:06 AM Message-ID: <200201101846.g0AIkbf16704@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > So, in other words, your laptop basically sucked as far as quality goes? > > > > No, not really. They shipped the wrong modem (the Actiontec worked, but > > I wanted the 3Com), and they swapped for the right one. > > > > The screen flicker could have been due to the fact that this is a > > laptop, and does get shook around sometime. They didn't balk at > > swapping the replacement LCD with another one just because I didn't > > like the new one (I think most people wouldn't have complained). All > > three LCDs had no bad pixles, BTW. The mouse problem was due to me > > being in the habit of holding the laptop (with the screen open, which > > adds extra strain) in one hand on the right-front corner when I move > > around while I'm working and putting extra strain on the case, which > > caused flexing and damaged the touchpad. > > So in other words, you were wasting valuable tech support resources for > your non-issues while people like me suffered? Thanks! They were issues to me. In fact, I went ahead and got CompleteCare so I don't have to worry about accidents. > > I know other people that have good experience. As usual, most people > > only hear about the bad experiences. > > Oh yeah? Name them. There were a couple posted here, there have been some on alt.sys.pc-clone.dell, and there are some on DellTalk. > If it was one crackpot on a Usenet newsgroup ranting about it, I'd ignore > it. If it's more than several crackpots, it's a real issue. > > At best, their product quality and customer service could be considered > inconsistent. That's definitely not good. This is the squeaky wheel syndrome. People don't talk about their good experiences, but about their bad experiences. For example, I didn't mention my good experiences until people mentioned their bad experiences. I've had good and bad experiences from other vendors, but I usually only mention the bad ones, and I accept that other people have good experiences with the ones I don't. A good example of this is when I had a problem with a system we bought in a package from a vendor. I can't remember the original problem (this has been over ten years, and we had a couple of teething problems so I can't remember which one was not taken care of properly), but we ended up having the problem escalated to the point the presidents of the company that made the system and the vendor had to meet along with an executive VP of our company to resolve the problem. You can bet that I was the squeaky wheel on this issue, and it left me with heartburn for a while, but after we got the issues resolved the support got much better. The problem turned out to be due to the vendor and the system manufacturer not having agreed on policies before they made the deal. Fortunately the agreement between our company and the vendor were reviewed before signing the purchase agreement so we had something to hold over the head of the vendor (this was only a $3M system, but we did several million dollars of business with both companies each year). I had another problem with a vendor that they resolved only after I signed an NDA. If I hadn't signed the NDA I'd still be complaining out loud. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 10 14:50:35 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: I CURSE THIS THREAD TO DIE!!!! Re: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <200201101846.g0AIkbf16704@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > This is the squeaky wheel syndrome. People don't talk about their > good experiences, but about their bad experiences. For example, I > didn't mention my good experiences until people mentioned their bad > experiences. I already gave heaps of praise to my wonderful Dell Deimnsion PC. I've also had much luck with some of the other Dell hardware I purchased. Despite my inflammatory comments to contrary, I believe overall they make decent hardware. However, this doesn't make up for the fact that: a) their technical support and technical support policies are horrible b) they are seemingly loathe to help the customer out in a crappy situation, even when the customer has purchased service plans c) their quality control is not so good (I base this on the numerous defects in hardware I've bought from them) > I had another problem with a vendor that they resolved only after I > signed an NDA. If I hadn't signed the NDA I'd still be complaining > out loud. What!? That's pretty piss poor of whoever this vendor is/was. They couldn't bribe me THAT easily. I'd also demand some money and a trip to Tahiti in return for signing an NDA to keep me quiet. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 10 15:00:14 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: I CURSE THIS THREAD TO DIE!!!! Re: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? References: Message-ID: <003601c19a19$cd438a20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Who says he didn't get some money and a trip? He just has to keep quiet about it! I've had several friends and associates use Dell hardware, and they seldom have problems attributable to Dell. The hardware's solid, the drivers are good ... what more can you ask? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 1:50 PM Subject: I CURSE THIS THREAD TO DIE!!!! Re: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? > On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > This is the squeaky wheel syndrome. People don't talk about their > > good experiences, but about their bad experiences. For example, I > > didn't mention my good experiences until people mentioned their bad > > experiences. > > I already gave heaps of praise to my wonderful Dell Deimnsion PC. I've > also had much luck with some of the other Dell hardware I purchased. > Despite my inflammatory comments to contrary, I believe overall they make > decent hardware. However, this doesn't make up for the fact that: > > a) their technical support and technical support policies are horrible > b) they are seemingly loathe to help the customer out in a crappy > situation, even when the customer has purchased service plans > c) their quality control is not so good (I base this on the numerous > defects in hardware I've bought from them) > > > I had another problem with a vendor that they resolved only after I > > signed an NDA. If I hadn't signed the NDA I'd still be complaining > > out loud. > > What!? That's pretty piss poor of whoever this vendor is/was. They > couldn't bribe me THAT easily. I'd also demand some money and a trip to > Tahiti in return for signing an NDA to keep me quiet. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From allain at panix.com Thu Jan 10 15:11:21 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: I CURSE THIS THREAD TO DIE!!!! Re: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer,best 50 classic games issue? References: Message-ID: <002f01c19a1b$5a9e41c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Re: I CURSE THIS THREAD TO DIE!!!! I personally hope that You Do Not Die, no matter how much cursing you do. John A. (yeahh, i know what he meant) From dittman at dittman.net Thu Jan 10 15:13:42 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: I CURSE THIS THREAD TO DIE!!!! Re: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jan 10, 2002 12:50:35 PM Message-ID: <200201102113.g0ALDg017320@narnia.int.dittman.net> [Trimmed to allow the thread to die per Sellam's request] > > I had another problem with a vendor that they resolved only after I > > signed an NDA. If I hadn't signed the NDA I'd still be complaining > > out loud. > > What!? That's pretty piss poor of whoever this vendor is/was. They > couldn't bribe me THAT easily. I'd also demand some money and a trip to > Tahiti in return for signing an NDA to keep me quiet. Because of the NDA I can't say what they gave me in exchange for the NDA (and the return of the original hardware). I was very adequately compensated. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From chris at mainecoon.com Thu Jan 10 14:26:21 2002 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've had a few occasions to deal with Dell over the past year or so. With the exception of _one_ experience, all of them have been bad. The first was with a new laptop. Display failed on the second day; the on site "technical support" guy turned out to be the guy who ran the local hole-in-the-wall computer shop. He arrived, I handed him the machine and he said "I've never seen one of these before". After tightening all of the screws on the case (he was unable to figure out how to get into it) he handed it back to me and said "send it back to Dell". Three weeks and innumerable calls later, I finally told them I was going to ask my credit card issuer for a chargeback -- and the next day a new machine appeared. The hard drive on _that_ failed after 72 hours; it took another two weeks to get a replacement. It's been stable since, but by the time it was all over it took more than two months to get it to that state. The second was with a batch of 1U rack mount servers for a Wall Street client. The front of each machine was divided into four bays, the first three having hot swap drives, the fourth having indicators and switches. One of these arrived with the switch panel shoved so far back into the chassis that it actually popped over the retaining ears that were supposed to make such a thing impossible (the shipping boxes were undamaged and the machines packed like nitro, so this was a manufacturing defect, not a shipping issue). The on-site service tech arrives (a different tech -- these machines were installed in an urban setting) and says "I've never seen one of these before". Apparently that phrase is standard for all Dell field service techs. She proceeds to sit cross-legged on the machine room floor with the machine in her lap while she talks on the phone to Dell for two hours. Eventually she pries the panel out -- and breaks its retaining latch in the process. Turns out that's not a FRU, so we have to exchange the entire machine. Once we get the machine sorted out, we go to rack mount them. Dell, of course, sells rack mount kits, but they only work with Dell racks. Dell sends "adapter" kits, but they only work with two-post racks -- and we're using four post, fully enclosed bays. The customer, who was looking at buying a few thousand Dell machines, eventually drags some senior Dell VP into their offices, and after I recount our experiences with their machines in a conference call (resulting, according to the customer, in the guy gagging on his pizza) he manages to get the right kits beamed down the following day. I dunno. I no longer buy Dell, and more and more of our customers are giving up on Dell as well. The build quality is highly uneven and their tech support is biased towards helping people plug their machines in. It's incredibly frustrating to have people ask if you've recently installed any new programs when your hard drive is throwing nonrecoverable errors and starting to screech. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 10 15:31:50 2002 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? References: Message-ID: <3C3E0846.AFAF16F9@verizon.net> Wow! I'm glad I do not own any Dell stock. Because if I did, I'd be selling it immediately after reading these posts of the last two days. The only Dell systems that I have worked with are older desktop units that are 133 - 266 MHz. They tended to be okay. The power supplies are proprietary and I never planned on using their customer service, nor any one else's for that matter. I hate having to teach them their job and wasting my time in the process! Eric Chris Kennedy wrote: > I've had a few occasions to deal with Dell over the past > year or so. With the exception of _one_ experience, all of them > have been bad. > > The first was with a new laptop. Display failed on the second > day; the on site "technical support" guy turned out to be the > guy who ran the local hole-in-the-wall computer shop. He > arrived, I handed him the machine and he said "I've never seen > one of these before". After tightening all of the screws on the > case (he was unable to figure out how to get into it) he handed > it back to me and said "send it back to Dell". Three weeks and > innumerable calls later, I finally told them I was going to > ask my credit card issuer for a chargeback -- and the next day > a new machine appeared. The hard drive on _that_ failed after > 72 hours; it took another two weeks to get a replacement. It's > been stable since, but by the time it was all over it took more > than two months to get it to that state. > > The second was with a batch of 1U rack mount servers for a > Wall Street client. The front of each machine was divided > into four bays, the first three having hot swap drives, the > fourth having indicators and switches. One of these arrived > with the switch panel shoved so far back into the chassis that > it actually popped over the retaining ears that were supposed > to make such a thing impossible (the shipping boxes were undamaged > and the machines packed like nitro, so this was a manufacturing > defect, not a shipping issue). The on-site service tech > arrives (a different tech -- these machines were installed > in an urban setting) and says "I've never seen one of these > before". Apparently that phrase is standard for all Dell > field service techs. She proceeds to sit cross-legged on > the machine room floor with the machine in her lap while > she talks on the phone to Dell for two hours. Eventually > she pries the panel out -- and breaks its retaining latch > in the process. Turns out that's not a FRU, so we have to > exchange the entire machine. > > Once we get the machine sorted out, we go to rack mount them. > Dell, of course, sells rack mount kits, but they only work > with Dell racks. Dell sends "adapter" kits, but they only > work with two-post racks -- and we're using four post, > fully enclosed bays. The customer, who was looking at > buying a few thousand Dell machines, eventually drags > some senior Dell VP into their offices, and after I recount > our experiences with their machines in a conference call > (resulting, according to the customer, in the guy gagging > on his pizza) he manages to get the right kits beamed down > the following day. > > I dunno. I no longer buy Dell, and more and more of our > customers are giving up on Dell as well. The build > quality is highly uneven and their tech support is biased > towards helping people plug their machines in. It's > incredibly frustrating to have people ask if you've > recently installed any new programs when your hard drive > is throwing nonrecoverable errors and starting to screech. > > -- > Chris Kennedy > chris@mainecoon.com > http://www.mainecoon.com > PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 10 06:01:12 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: Starship simulator (was: VAX 11/780s...) References: <200201092230.g09MUM129558@ns2.ezwind.net> <3C3D1BEA.3CD51F55@bigvalley.net> <3C3CF5B0.B31813E8@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3C3D8288.50702519@verizon.net> Hello Ben, > I say dump this simulation idea and build the real thing! I doubt you'd want to, or be able to, commit the real level of resources necessary for this. > We have the computing power! But that would only be one piece out of the many required to complete that puzzle. > NASA is busy building BIG projects because the Aero-space > companies make more money this way on R&D stuff That's not the sole motivation there. I do not doubt that large aerospace lobbying has some influence on project funding, but the real reason their projects cost what they do is the fact that they are held to very high standards. People's lives and the taxpayers' money are at stake, accountability to the US government and the american taxpayers, etc. won't allow them to work like hobbyists or shadetree mechanics. > a simple-reusable space craft I doubt that such a thing would ever really be "simple" I really hope that you were actually joking. This analysis of the requirements is very innocent in it's point of view. Much like a child's view of the world. And note that I'm not calling you childish, just that simplistic statement of the requirements for projects of this scope. > putting ORDANARY people in space! This will happen someday soon though. Maybe another 30 to 50 years? Seeing the work Henk has done, I'm sure that he has invested a lot of time, and a fair amount of money, just in creating such a well done simulator project of that scope. Ian Ben Franchuk wrote: > > Larry Anderson wrote: > > > > Look for the book Star Ship Simulation by Roger Garrett - Dilithium > > press, it is a very well thought out full-fledged simulation idea (no > > real code, just a complete (I think) system structure for all the > > 'stations') Back then it would have been a monumental task to get all > > the computers and newtworking worked out but now it would be nearly a > > cake walk. > > > **** OFF TOPIC **** > > I say dump this simulation idea and build the real thing! > We have the computing power! NASA is busy building BIG projects > because the Aero-space companies make more money this way on R&D stuff > than building a simple-reusable space craft and putting ORDANARY > people in space! > > ********************* > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 10 15:23:24 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: Starship simulator (was: VAX 11/780s...) References: <200201092230.g09MUM129558@ns2.ezwind.net> <3C3D1BEA.3CD51F55@bigvalley.net> <3C3CF5B0.B31813E8@jetnet.ab.ca> <3C3D8288.50702519@verizon.net> <3C3DE013.7074FD2F@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3C3E064C.C3617647@verizon.net> Ben, I wish we had it all today too. I'm sure we would have been much further along if they hadn't cut the budget back so severely after the apollo program wrapped up. But the shuttle is a good working vehicle. Launches of the shuttle are so common now, you only hear a blurb on it on the news. In addition to flying Glenn back into space, I wish they would take Yeager up one time too, just to thank him for the contributions he also made. There are some small private outfits trying to develop their own programs too, either in CA or somewhere out west. But it still takes a lot of money, just not as much as NASA requires. On CNN this morn, I believe there was mention of a launch, but the vehicle was still a $500,000 vehicle. I bet if you searched google, you might find one of the private projects, that you might even be able to contribute help to. One concern I have though is that until there is actually a good destination to go to ( where there is air and water, even if it has to be extracted ) there may not be enough of a reason to make it commercially viable. Short hops to get halfway around the globe in record time would be good, but true deep space travel may need a destination that will support life. I liken it to sailing. Some people like to take their boat out just to go sailing, but I kind of always wanted a destination to sail to. Sailing halfway out into the Atlantic, just to see it, and coming back just never excited me. If Columbus hadn't found the "New World" how many would have continued to voyage out across the atlantic. Ian Ben Franchuk wrote: > > Ian Koller wrote: > > > > Hello Ben, > > > > > I say dump this simulation idea and build the real thing! > > > > I doubt you'd want to, or be able to, commit the real level > > of resources necessary for this. > > It is not a easy project, and definitely a team effort, but you > still need one man/woman with a vision. Right now space travel > in same field as computers in the early 1960's. They still would > be mainframes on punch cards today had not the PDP-1 and PDP-5 > and PDP-11 been designed by a small team of people. > > > That's not the sole motivation there. I do not doubt that > > large aerospace lobbying has some influence on project > > funding, but the real reason their projects cost what they > > do is the fact that they are held to very high standards. > > People's lives and the taxpayers' money are at stake, > > accountability to the US government and the american taxpayers, > > etc. won't allow them to work like hobbyists or shadetree mechanics. > > Ha-Ha -- accountable that is funny. Too much red tape and kickbacks > I bet to make it easy for a team of people to develop something. > A hobbyist is somebody who does something with out getting paid > for it. Talent is not == money. Since I don't have talent in that > field of rocket hardware I may not design a warp drive :) but still > could help out in other fields. The point is nobody wants to go into > space if they have to do a little work. > > > > > > > a simple-reusable space craft > > > > I doubt that such a thing would ever really be "simple" > > > > I really hope that you were actually joking. This analysis > > of the requirements is very innocent in it's point of view. > > Much like a child's view of the world. And note that I'm > > not calling you childish, just that simplistic statement > > of the requirements for projects of this scope. > > NO joke! > A space craft is hard to design because so many variables > change exponentially. A 5% factor could cross a threshold > wipe out this whole design. Simple is a relative term here. > I like a simple two stage space-plane rail launched with > only the 1st stage manned ( single pilot ). The second stage > would fly to dock with a low orbit space station. Re-entry > still needs more thought but one idea is dismantling the 2nd stage > and having a return shuttle take down the peaces. > > > > > > putting ORDANARY people in space! > > > > This will happen someday soon though. Maybe another 30 to > > 50 years? > > I am 42 come spring. I can't wait another 30 years. :) > One view I have is since space travel is 10x harder than > flying I expect payloads to be 1/10 of the what flying is. > This is in the scale of 500 to 2000 LBS payloads. > You have NASA's plan -- big projects done by a army of > people -- my plan ordinary people on average wages bootstrapping > themselves into space. Think small you can build big projects. > Think big and you get small projects like NASA seems to be doing. > > > > Seeing the work Henk has done, I'm sure that he has invested > > a lot of time, and a fair amount of money, just in creating > > such a well done simulator project of that scope. > > True. But then if he decides he wants to build a console > for space craft to say MARS could he do it with out political > problems. > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 10 07:07:32 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: Starship simulator (was: VAX 11/780s...) References: <20020109171248.K2402-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3C3D9214.881658CA@verizon.net> If you could only get Nick Oliviero on the project ... He's a professional in the simulator field, working with flight simulators for Continental Airlines. "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > > On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > > On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > > > > * It will be much bigger. Think NCC-1701-D bridge. > > > > If it's the Enterprise-D, it's already been done. > > Nah, just about that size. For content, think Alexiy Leonov. > > Mind you, this is all entirely vapor. This is something I'll end up doing > probably 10 years from now if at all. It's just fun to dream every now > and then. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@subatomix.com From jss at subatomix.com Thu Jan 10 10:04:24 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: Starship simulator (was: VAX 11/780s...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020110095446.U4725-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Gooijen H wrote: > Ok, I read all comments, but I think this thread is not completely for > CC... Bah. It started out with me thinking "OK, what am I actually going to *do* with these computers?". I was looking at other enthusiasts' web sites to get some ideas, I came across yours, and I got the idea for my own simulator. So it's really only being dreamed about as an application for my computers. > I must admit that dreaming/thinking about it is fun. Realising some of > it in the end gives me a 'good' feeling, as does all comment on this > website. Yes, it is fun to dream about. Now I need to go get rich so it can be implemented. :-) -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 10 06:08:50 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: GWWTMFTOHH Award, Was: Re: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipmentavailable References: Message-ID: <3C3D8452.45FC5EA3@verizon.net> Doc wrote: > I nominate towel.blinkenlights.nl > Telnet there and kick back. That's Sten. Anyone in the Netherlands know him? He definately has the affliction, as do many here. > > On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > > > http://home.hetnet.nl/~tshaj/ > > > Click in the 'star screen' for a real star-ship bridge. > > > > I nominate this person for the "Geek With Way Too Much Fricken Time On His > > Hands" award. > > I nominate towel.blinkenlights.nl > Telnet there and kick back. > > Doc From hansp at aconit.org Thu Jan 10 06:16:01 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: Looking for a CR11 manual References: <3C3CBE39.F759E125@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <3C3D8601.30603@aconit.org> The Wanderer wrote: > If you have some punched cards as well to spare that would be great! What sort of quantity ae you looking for? -- hbp From allain at panix.com Thu Jan 10 08:07:29 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: quest for pictures References: <20020110002908.A2201@spies.com> Message-ID: <004001c199e0$241a1e20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> If you paid $500 for a Sony some time back you should consider getting something for $200 now. Pick a name brand. You will be amazed at the improvement. 640x480=0.3 MPixels, that's 3 to 7 times worse. You get what you pay for. John A. From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jan 10 07:35:50 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: quest for pictures In-Reply-To: <004001c199e0$241a1e20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <20020110002908.A2201@spies.com> <004001c199e0$241a1e20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <02Jan10.095203est.119054@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >If you paid $500 for a Sony some time back >you should consider getting something for $200 >now. Pick a name brand. You will be amazed >at the improvement. 640x480=0.3 MPixels, that's >3 to 7 times worse. You get what you pay for. Agreed. My point though was that for quick shots, such as checking layouts without the time spent waiting for film or other types of things that people would generally use a Polariod for, it's a good deal. With one of the MMC cards, you also get quite a large number of shots, approx. 300, without carting all the film around. I imagine for serious work, my A-1 will do me for quite a while yet. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Jan 10 10:52:45 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: quest for pictures In-Reply-To: <02Jan10.095203est.119054@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> References: <004001c199e0$241a1e20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <20020110002908.A2201@spies.com> <004001c199e0$241a1e20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020110102810.02508cd8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Jeff Hellige may have mentioned these words: >>If you paid $500 for a Sony some time back >>you should consider getting something for $200 >>now. Pick a name brand. You will be amazed >>at the improvement. 640x480=0.3 MPixels, that's >>3 to 7 times worse. You get what you pay for. > > Agreed. My point though was that for quick shots, such as > checking layouts without the time spent waiting for film or other types > of things that people would generally use a Polariod for, it's a good > deal. With one of the MMC cards, you also get quite a large number of > shots, approx. 300, without carting all the film around. I imagine for > serious work, my A-1 will do me for quite a while yet. I've always loved my Canon T50, which I will admit has been a *fantastic* camera, along with my T70, which I sold to my father to give to his girlfriend for Xmas '00 - which I no longer needed after I got the T50 repaired [wifey put her finger thru the shutter :-( ]) I got it over 10 years ago, when I graduated Army boot camp. but... My new digital camera, a Nikon Coolpix 5000, is definitely the way to go. It's frelling cool! 2560x1920 pictures, that look really awesome, and more gadgets & gizmos & menus than you can shake a stick at. The damn thing has Picture in Picture! Definitely cooler than my Epson photo 3000z, which [ahem] my wife broke... Oh, and I learned that my camera is *linux* compatible! The SCSI emulation drivers will emulate a scsi drive over USB as well as over IDE - all I have to do is plug in the USB cable & mount /dev/sda1 ! That is *so* cool... So when I have a little time after I move, I'll be taking pictures of my classic machines for archiving... Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an *older* .sig. (circa 1997!) Why does Hershey's put nutritional information on their candy bar wrappers when there's no nutritional value within? From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jan 10 10:29:28 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: quest for pictures In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020110102810.02508cd8@mail.30below.com> References: <004001c199e0$241a1e20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <20020110002908.A2201@spies.com> <004001c199e0$241a1e20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <5.1.0.14.2.20020110102810.02508cd8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <02Jan10.124539est.119042@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >I've always loved my Canon T50, which I will admit has been a >*fantastic* camera, along with my T70, which I sold to my father to >give to his girlfriend for Xmas '00 - which I no longer needed after >I got the T50 repaired [wifey put her finger thru the shutter :-( ]) >I got it over 10 years ago, when I graduated Army boot camp. I like the Canon SLR's myself. I've had this A-1 for well over 10 years. The newer models are easier to use but most of them aren't as flexible. If only it was like the F-1 and would work without the battery. I used a Hanimex-Practica SuperTL (early 70's East German SLR) prior to getting the A-1 but it's electronics started going out. I also have a couple of Zeiss-Ikon Ikoflex medium format cameras I like to shoot on occasion. >My new digital camera, a Nikon Coolpix 5000, is definitely the way >to go. It's frelling cool! 2560x1920 pictures, that look really >awesome, and more gadgets & gizmos & menus than you can shake a >stick at. They certainly look like nice cameras, which I would expect from Nikon. If I was going to use a digital camera for serious photography I'd certainly be looking at something along it's lines, or better. To get the quality and flexibility of my A-1 in a digital camera it would cost me a great deal, as reflected in the Coolpix 5000's suggested price of $1099.00. I don't shoot enough to justify spending that kind of money to switch. Another thought on the ultra-cheap digital cameras out there is as parts donors for the tinkerers on the list. Possibly some cool projects for classic comuters and/or robotics... Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jan 10 11:56:39 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: quest for pictures In-Reply-To: <02Jan10.124539est.119042@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: At the bare minimum, I want real lens interchangeability. I'd prefer a Leica screw mount (just so I can use what I have), but realistically, a C mount (or even D) would be more practical. But ANY MOUNT! What I REALLY want to see, is a 24 x 36mm imagining sensor mounted in a 35mm wide x ~1mm thick assembly, connected by a flexible 35mm wide to a cylindrical housing for batteries, circuitry, etc. Then it could be a drop-in retrofit for use with REAL cameras. I've seen a few medium format (4 x 5) film pack conversions, but they are WAY too expensive, and don't have enough resolution to warrant their size. (anything less than 10 megapixel would be better suited for 35mm) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 10 14:04:29 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: quest for pictures In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jan 10, 2 09:56:39 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1852 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020110/3fc031a8/attachment.ksh From allain at panix.com Thu Jan 10 16:53:13 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: quest for pictures References: Message-ID: <006701c19a29$963559e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> +AD4- A good 35mm SLR with good film should be +AD4- able to manage about 12Mpixels equivalent +AD4- I think (4000 +ACo- 3000 or so). I'm pretty fussy, Tony but not for all things, all times. I'd rate: 35mm/iso25 as 15MPix 35mm/iso100 as 5MPix 35mm/iso800 as 1MPix Since I don't shoot Kodachrome for everything, my break even for film vs digital may be lower. Of course there are convenience reasons, but there are +ACI-filmic+ACI- reasons for choosing digital too. Like more control of contrast at a resolution and Ultra low (zero?) shutter vibration. I got one handheld off at 1second that would have never expected to work with an SLR. John A. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 10 13:56:15 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: quest for pictures In-Reply-To: <02Jan10.124539est.119042@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> from "Jeff Hellige" at Jan 10, 2 12:29:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2153 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020110/d2b8c264/attachment.ksh From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 10 14:27:33 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:27 2005 Subject: quest for pictures References: <20020110002908.A2201@spies.com> <004001c199e0$241a1e20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3C3DF935.9B5AD616@verizon.net> John, > You get what you pay for. A phrase I coined some time back is ... "While you hope to get what you pay for, you can just about be assured, you won't get what you don't pay for" John Allain wrote: > > If you paid $500 for a Sony some time back > you should consider getting something for $200 > now. Pick a name brand. You will be amazed > at the improvement. 640x480=0.3 MPixels, that's > 3 to 7 times worse. You get what you pay for. > > John A. From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Jan 10 08:37:03 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: quest for pictures In-Reply-To: <004001c199e0$241a1e20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <20020110002908.A2201@spies.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020110083606.020e1990@pc> At 09:07 AM 1/10/2002 -0500, John Allain wrote: >You will be amazed >at the improvement. 640x480=0.3 MPixels, that's >3 to 7 times worse. You get what you pay for. I agree, but I'm still shocked that I can walk into a Shopko and have a choice of three or four blister-packed $50-$80 digital cameras. - John From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 10 14:33:38 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: quest for pictures References: <20020110002908.A2201@spies.com> <5.0.0.25.0.20020110083606.020e1990@pc> Message-ID: <3C3DFAA2.1F06B886@verizon.net> John, I had a lower cost one, back when a $100 didn't get a very good one, and it's pics were so grainy, I gave it to my niece and nephew to thrash ( once I got something better). I have been very satisfied with the Olympus that I bought. Good rez, good memory, decent compromise between price and performance/features at about $260 I'm seeing some of the more recent models with motorized lenses, but I'm concerned that with those, the moving mechanicals are a potential point of early failure. John Foust wrote: > > At 09:07 AM 1/10/2002 -0500, John Allain wrote: > >You will be amazed > >at the improvement. 640x480=0.3 MPixels, that's > >3 to 7 times worse. You get what you pay for. > > I agree, but I'm still shocked that I can walk into a > Shopko and have a choice of three or four blister-packed > $50-$80 digital cameras. > > - John From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Jan 10 09:52:45 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: quest for pictures In-Reply-To: <20020110002908.A2201@spies.com> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020110095052.0212b358@pc> At 12:29 AM 1/10/2002 -0500, ysgdhio wrote: >Jeff Hellige writes: >> 'JamCam 3.0' by KD Gear Interactive for $49.00 > >Not to burst your bubble, but compgeeks.com has them for $37 (and less): >http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=KG-JC3B-CS >I got mine for $20 at a thrift shop. At 10:25 AM 1/10/2002 -0500, Chris wrote: >I agree, but still, my attitude has become (due to years of dealing with >windows and the declining quality of PC hardware), that you can spend >$3000 on a PC, or you can spend $300 on a PC, and they are both going to >work (quality/stability wise) about the same. And CompGeeks has a great line of refurb-ish PCs (HP, eMachine, etc.) for about $200-$250 each, minus an OS. Very nice, and just as disposable as more expensive machines when they break. As for cameras for photographing your collection, I vote for getting a good one with a lot of memory. More pixels means more opportunity to crop and zoom. Add a big memory card and it's so groovy for documenting a new find before you rip it apart. Just shoot, shoot, zoom, shoot. Shoot at max res and five years from now you'll be able to read the labels on the ROMs. I really like my Olympus C-2500. As a true SLR, I know what I see will be what I get. - John From allain at panix.com Thu Jan 10 11:02:06 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: quest for pictures References: <5.0.0.25.0.20020110095052.0212b358@pc> Message-ID: <002401c199f8$88dfec00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > I really like my Olympus C-2500. As a true SLR, I know > what I see will be what I get. I used SLR's for years. The point is a bit moot with digital cameras, all you have to do is turn on the LCD display. Everyone has a price point where they'll start compromising, I guess. John A. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 10 13:40:17 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: quest for pictures In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Jan 9, 2 09:29:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 983 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020110/45aeac58/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jan 10 15:44:50 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: quest for pictures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02Jan10.180101est.119128@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >There's only one thing that bothers me. That you'd be happy with 640*480 >resulotion after using a Canon A1. I bought the cheap digital camera to play with and use for the same type of thing one would use the Polaroid instamatic cameras for. It won't be used for work that requires clear photos, such as showing stuff on my website. For clarity, I prefer an older medium format TLR camera shooting 120 roll film at relatively slow speeds. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Jan 10 15:51:13 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: quest for pictures Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014674AF@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] ! ! ! > ! > At the bare minimum, I want real lens interchangeability. ! > I'd prefer a ! > Leica screw mount (just so I can use what I have), but ! > realistically, a C ! > mount (or even D) would be more practical. But ANY MOUNT! ! ! I wonder how many people on this list actually know what C ! and D mounts ! are, and what they were first associated with. Not me really, but it does have to do with cameras... ! I prefer screw-in lens mounts to bayonet. For one very good reason. I ! don't need speed of lens changing, but I do like to make my ! own add-ons. ! I can cut the screw threads in the lathe without problems (I ! made my own ! C mount lens and body caps when I discovered that the ! 'official' ones had ! to be ordered from Switzerland and were over \pounds 35.00 ! each). Making ! a bayonet mount is a lot harder. Don't they have adapters? Or can you cut something down and slap it on the lathe to make an adaptor? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 10 16:40:38 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: quest for pictures In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014674AF@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> from "David Woyciesjes" at Jan 10, 2 04:51:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1338 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020110/4e34afbd/attachment.ksh From roart at nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jan 10 08:17:09 2002 From: roart at nvg.ntnu.no (roart@nvg.ntnu.no) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103103503.03054b60@127.0.0.1>; from msell@ontimesupport.com on Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 10:57:36AM -0600 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103103503.03054b60@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <20020110151709.D11437@nvg.ntnu.no> On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 10:57:36AM -0600, Matthew Sell wrote: > > Now that I have OpenVMS 6.1 running on my VAX 4000, I'm curious about the > status of the various "FreeVMS" projects that are in progress (or so it > would seem....). > > I'd love to "cut my teeth" with kernel development after working with Linux Nice to hear that. > Here are links to the various FreeVMS projects I have visited: > > http://www.panix.com/~kingdon/free-vms.html > http://www.freevms.org/ The main project is eventually reachable from this one. > http://www.djesys.com/vms/freevms/ Better look straight at http://freevms.free.fr/indexGB.html It has actually got kernel functionality. (For the first time, I think) (Note: The CVS stuff is usually more current than the downloads.) But: The project need more developers. -Roar Thron?s From roart at nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jan 10 09:34:45 2002 From: roart at nvg.ntnu.no (roart@nvg.ntnu.no) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: ; from pat@purdueriots.com on Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 09:41:48AM -0500 References: <3C35497B.8010702@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <20020110163445.E11437@nvg.ntnu.no> On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 09:41:48AM -0500, Pat Finnegan wrote: > > Of course, the problem is deciding what ONE kernel to use (prolly BSD or > Linux 2.??), and how to trim down the kernel to a small set of drivers for > testing it. Linux/PC was chosen because of availability reasons. -Roar Thron?s From roart at nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jan 10 10:01:01 2002 From: roart at nvg.ntnu.no (roart@nvg.ntnu.no) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: FreeVMS In-Reply-To: <20020104200108.E82112-100000@mail.huebner.org>; from hans@Huebner.ORG on Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 08:14:25PM +0100 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103103503.03054b60@127.0.0.1> <20020104200108.E82112-100000@mail.huebner.org> Message-ID: <20020110170101.F11437@nvg.ntnu.no> On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 08:14:25PM +0100, Hans H?bner wrote: > I'm not convinced that it makes sense to keep the FreeVMS idea up. It just > does not make sense: > > - OpenVMS is a mature environment. Maturity and obsolescense are tightly > coupled, but one thing is sure right now: VMS is 24 years old, many of the Unix is older: 33 years. > ideas which influenced its design where intimately coupled to the computing > style of the late 1970ies (Minicomputers, CISC, large systems etc.) They may say minis and mainframes are dead, but it is still mainly words... A lot of machines with Windows/PC (even Linux/PC) may still not be up to the task... Supercomputing centres may use a lot of smaller machines instead of Crays, though, but that is a bit different computing model. > - OpenVMS is complete. Reimplementing even only a limited subset of VMS would > be a real ambitious effort. Reimplementing it in a portable way would be even > harder, as the operating system is tightly coupled to the design of the DEC > CPUs. It will be 5.x-ish, because that's the newest complete Internals books. > If what you want is use the coolest operating system of the world, get a VAX > or an Alpha and run OpenVMS. It's ready to use, it is complete and it is > pretty cool. Will be using that, too. -Roar Thron?s From allain at panix.com Thu Jan 10 08:27:06 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: Old TV show References: <01C1995C.785D35A0@mse-d03> <000901c199a1$0dfa0cc0$85b1ff0a@cvendel> Message-ID: <006c01c199e2$e1f25be0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I don't remember that one, but I do remember the Computer > Cronicles.... they used to have a Radio Show every Sunday > night at 9pm or so, then I recall they had a TV show for a while > after that, I think on PBS Public Educational TV here in NYC, > don't know where else. Good old Stewart Chiefet. Think that show originated from KTEH in Silly Valley. Great show. His co-Host for some time was Gary Kildall of all people. It was pretty even handed. The MS Wonk would give his presentation then somebody from nowhere would be up showing how his SW could do just as well or better. Stewart still lives on in the NYC area latenight on 'Net Cafe'. Absolutely on topic since CC predated 1988. By how much I don't know. It lives!: http://www.cmptv.com/computerchronicles/ John A. From curt at atari-history.com Thu Jan 10 09:37:46 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: Old TV show References: <01C1995C.785D35A0@mse-d03> <000901c199a1$0dfa0cc0$85b1ff0a@cvendel> <006c01c199e2$e1f25be0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <005801c199f3$8a7942f0$60b1ff0a@cvendel> Hi John, Yeah, thats right, everytime a MS product was shown, there was always a Mac comparision, always lots of small startup software company people on talking about great products they had, they would do a little helpdesk thing sometimes, showing people common issues, they were very Mac centric in shows which was cool too. Those shows were a lot of fun to watch (and listen to on the Radio).... something to do while watching the lights of the Hayes Smartmodem blinking away in the middle of the night knowing someone was on your computer while it was running BBS software.... Man, I miss that stuff!!! Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:27 AM Subject: Re: Old TV show > > I don't remember that one, but I do remember the Computer > > Cronicles.... they used to have a Radio Show every Sunday > > night at 9pm or so, then I recall they had a TV show for a while > > after that, I think on PBS Public Educational TV here in NYC, > > don't know where else. > > Good old Stewart Chiefet. Think that show originated from KTEH > in Silly Valley. Great show. His co-Host for some time was Gary > Kildall of all people. It was pretty even handed. The MS Wonk > would give his presentation then somebody from nowhere would > be up showing how his SW could do just as well or better. Stewart > still lives on in the NYC area latenight on 'Net Cafe'. Absolutely on > topic since CC predated 1988. By how much I don't know. > > It lives!: http://www.cmptv.com/computerchronicles/ > > John A. > From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jan 10 11:43:21 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: Old TV show In-Reply-To: <006c01c199e2$e1f25be0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, John Allain wrote: > > I don't remember that one, but I do remember the Computer > > Cronicles.... they used to have a Radio Show every Sunday > Good old Stewart Chiefet. Who was NOT present for the first years? > Think that show originated from KTEH > in Silly Valley. KCSM. KTEH is great, but Jim Warren (who IS the one who started the show) had ties with college of San Mateo (for a while, he was on their board of Trustees!) > Great show. His co-Host for some time was Gary > Kildall of all people. I show my OS class a tape of their eulogy for him. > It was pretty even handed. The MS Wonk > would give his presentation then somebody from nowhere would > be up showing how his SW could do just as well or better. Stewart > still lives on in the NYC area latenight on 'Net Cafe'. Absolutely on > topic since CC predated 1988. By how much I don't know. > > It lives!: http://www.cmptv.com/computerchronicles/ > > John A. From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jan 10 11:14:50 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: Old TV show In-Reply-To: <000901c199a1$0dfa0cc0$85b1ff0a@cvendel> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Curt Vendel wrote: > I don't remember that one, but I do remember the Computer Cronicles.... they > used to have a Radio Show every Sunday night at 9pm or so, then I recall > they had a TV show for a while after that, I think on PBS Public Educational > TV here in NYC, don't know where else. Computer Chronicles originated/originates out of KCSM, which is run by the college of San Mateo (a community college). It was started by and originally hosted by Jim Warren (who started a few dozen other ventures) and Gary Kildall (ever heard of CP/M?) Jim is starting other stuff, and Gary is dead; the show is now firmly in the hands of Stuart Cheiffet (sp?) From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Jan 10 13:33:18 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: Old TV show In-Reply-To: <01C1995C.785D35A0@mse-d03> Message-ID: <3C3D981E.9576.22A8B314@localhost> I watched it religiously. One of the old Commodore gurus was the tech-man and central figures on the show, Jim Butterfield, who wrote all kinds of programs for the C64 as well as contributing to many C-64 books. Billy Van and Luba Goy were front-men and knew little about computers. I ran across Billy Van in cabbagetown(a district of Toronto) a couple of years ago and suggested they should redo the show as a musical. He didn't have the vision. Jim Butterfield was a neighbor of mine until I moved out west and much involved in Toronto Freenet. He also gave me a great Amiga 3000 that his daughter had grown tired of playing games on. One of the Commodore legends and contributors. Wish someone would do a re-run ! Lawrence > Just curious: anybody here ever see a TV show back > in the 80's called Bits and Bytes, exploring the > PETs, Apples, TI99's etc. of the day and starring > Billy Van (Laugh-In) and Luba Goy (Cdn Air Farce)? > > mike > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From auringer at tds.net Thu Jan 10 09:05:14 2002 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available References: Message-ID: <3C3DADAA.E14C85B@tds.net> Mark Tapley wrote: > You are probably way ahead of me on this, but tapes of the O/S's and other > hardware, where available, might be well appreciated by the machines' > ultimate owners - or owners of similar machines. All of the system software is being preserved. The tapes I was referring to are the hundreds of backup tapes that line the walls of the computer rooms (and elsewhere!). > Good luck and thanks very much for all your work! Thanks for the thought. It has been a bit of a headache. > Are there any NeXT or Digital Group (not DEC) or Balcones Microcomputer > systems there? Long shots, I know, but thought I'd ask. None of those, sorry. Later, Jon From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Jan 10 10:24:21 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: What to do with an empty BA23 Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014674A6@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! Hi guys, ! I'm sat here wondering what I should do with this empty ! BA23 I've got.... ! ... If all else ! fails, anyone think of an alternative use for a BA23? :&) Didn't somebody turn one into a keg-erator? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Jan 10 13:26:13 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: What to do with an empty BA23 In-Reply-To: ; from classiccmp@knm.yi.org on Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 23:49:57 CET References: Message-ID: <20020110202613.B21383@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.01.09 23:49 Matt London wrote: > If all else fails, anyone think of > an alternative use for a BA23? :&) According to: http://world.std.com/~bdc/projects/vaxen/vaxgeektop10.html Is it the blank rackmountable case, or do you have the plastic revetment with foor stand? If yes put a pillow on it and you have a nice seat. That was what I used my BA23 for at the LinuxTag 2000. I had a MV II in it running 4.3BSD-Tahoe. Quite funny. Especially as it attracted other geeks. (Including a bearded man with a RedHat... :-) ) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From classiccmp at knm.yi.org Thu Jan 10 16:52:21 2002 From: classiccmp at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: What to do with an empty BA23 In-Reply-To: <20020110202613.B21383@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: Hi, > > If all else fails, anyone think of > > an alternative use for a BA23? :&) > According to: http://world.std.com/~bdc/projects/vaxen/vaxgeektop10.html > Is it the blank rackmountable case, or do you have the plastic revetment > with foor stand? If yes put a pillow on it and you have a nice seat. > That was what I used my BA23 for at the LinuxTag 2000. I had a MV II in > it running 4.3BSD-Tahoe. Quite funny. Especially as it attracted other > geeks. (Including a bearded man with a RedHat... :-) ) Nah - it's rackmount :&) I met / chatted to a bearded man with a RedHat after Linux Expo 2000 in a pub - it was Alan Cox :&) -- Matt --- Web Page: http://knm.org.uk/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ From msell at ontimesupport.com Thu Jan 10 11:23:58 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: ENIAC [Was: Re: Appropritate comic strip....] In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014674A8@yalepress3.unipre ss.yale.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020110112240.032ee008@127.0.0.1> Has anyone ever attempted to recreate all or part of the ENIAC? Maybe as part of a CS project or museum? Just curious..... - Matt At 11:45 AM 1/10/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Have a look at this comic strip... (Wednesday's strip) > >http://www.rockwoodcomic.com/ > >--- David A Woyciesjes >--- C & IS Support Specialist >--- Yale University Press >--- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu >--- (203) 432-0953 >--- ICQ # - 905818 Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From pat at transarc.ibm.com Thu Jan 10 11:45:09 2002 From: pat at transarc.ibm.com (Pat Barron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: ENIAC [Was: Re: Appropritate comic strip....] In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020110112240.032ee008@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Matthew Sell wrote: > Has anyone ever attempted to recreate all or part of the ENIAC? Maybe as > part of a CS project or museum? > > Just curious..... Jan Van der Spiegel at the University of Pennsylvania and some of his students did an "ENIAC-on-a-chip" project several years ago. See: http://www.ee.upenn.edu/~jan/eniacproj.html There are still pieces of the actual ENIAC at the Moore School of Electrical Engineering at the University of Pennsylvania; for a couple of years, I had an office about 20 feet away from three cabinets of the ENIAC, and a PDP-8 ... --Pat. From hansp at aconit.org Thu Jan 10 11:53:30 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: ENIAC [Was: Re: Appropritate comic strip....] References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020110112240.032ee008@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <3C3DD51A.4020006@aconit.org> Matthew Sell wrote: > Has anyone ever attempted to recreate all or part of the ENIAC? Maybe as > part of a CS project or museum? For the 50th aniversary some few years ago there was a projet to put ENIAC on a chip: http://www.ee.upenn.edu/~jan/eniacproj.html AFAIK no one has tried to rebuild the orginal in physical form. On a related topic, the original Manchester (England) machine which ran its first program in 1948 was reconstructed from mainly period components. The story is here: http://www.computer50.org/mark1/index.html#baby -- hbp From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jan 10 12:50:30 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: ENIAC [Was: Re: Appropritate comic strip....] References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020110112240.032ee008@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <3C3DE276.6DADBD09@jetnet.ab.ca> Matthew Sell wrote: > > Has anyone ever attempted to recreate all or part of the ENIAC? Maybe as > part of a CS project or museum? Yes what ever happened to all chips from the 'ENIAC on a chip ' project for the 50th aniversity a few years back. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 10 12:56:11 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: ENIAC [Was: Re: Appropritate comic strip....] In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020110112240.032ee008@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Matthew Sell wrote: > Has anyone ever attempted to recreate all or part of the ENIAC? Maybe > as part of a CS project or museum? Check out the ENIAC-on-a-Chip project: http://www.ee.upenn.edu/~jan/eniacproj.html Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jan 10 11:36:28 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: ENIAC [Was: Re: Appropritate comic strip....] In-Reply-To: ENIAC [Was: Re: Appropritate comic strip....] (Matthew Sell) References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014674A8@yalepress3.unipre ss.yale.edu> <5.1.0.14.0.20020110112240.032ee008@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <15421.53532.884491.801124@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 10, Matthew Sell wrote: > Has anyone ever attempted to recreate all or part of the ENIAC? Maybe as > part of a CS project or museum? > > Just curious..... I thought this was neat..These folks implemented the ENIAC architecture on a chip some time ago: http://www.ee.upenn.edu/~jan/eniacproj.html -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From csmith at amdocs.com Thu Jan 10 11:49:25 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: ENIAC [Was: Re: Appropritate comic strip....] Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E0E0@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew Sell [mailto:msell@ontimesupport.com] > Has anyone ever attempted to recreate all or part of the > ENIAC? Maybe as > part of a CS project or museum? Yes, I think there was an ENIAC on a chip project that was successful. I don't know much about it though. -- or did you mean in original scale, with valves? :) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From msell at ontimesupport.com Thu Jan 10 14:25:12 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: ENIAC [Was: Re: Appropritate comic strip....] In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E0E0@cmiexch1.cmi.itds .com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020110142419.032d2e60@127.0.0.1> Chris, Ahem..... Over here, on this side of the Atlantic, they're called tubes. : ) Just ribbing you.... - Matt >Yes, I think there was an ENIAC on a chip project that was successful. I >don't know much about it though. > > -- or did you mean in original scale, with valves? :) > >Regards, > >Chris > > >Christopher Smith, Perl Developer >Amdocs - Champaign, IL > >/usr/bin/perl -e ' >print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); >' > Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From csmith at amdocs.com Thu Jan 10 15:16:39 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: ENIAC [Was: Re: Appropritate comic strip....] Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E0E6@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew Sell [mailto:msell@ontimesupport.com] > Over here, on this side of the Atlantic, they're called tubes. What side of the Atlantic is that? I'm in mid-Illinois. ;) Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From msell at ontimesupport.com Thu Jan 10 15:40:38 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: ENIAC [Was: Re: Appropritate comic strip....] In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E0E6@cmiexch1.cmi.itds .com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020110153810.0314a578@127.0.0.1> Chris, I probably should have mentioned that, huh? : ) I'm in Texas. We've got plenty of valves here, but they all have oil in them...... Vacuum tubes. That's what I meant to say. No, really, I did!!! - Matt At 03:16 PM 1/10/2002 -0600, you wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Matthew Sell [mailto:msell@ontimesupport.com] > > > Over here, on this side of the Atlantic, they're called tubes. > >What side of the Atlantic is that? I'm in mid-Illinois. ;) > >Christopher Smith, Perl Developer >Amdocs - Champaign, IL > >/usr/bin/perl -e ' >print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); >' > Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 10 11:40:18 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: Reading PET tapes (was Re: Apple disk -> MSDOS) In-Reply-To: <20020109232134.50193.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Not audio (though there is an app that will decode .WAV files of PET > tapes). Someone wrote a DOS app that reads the parallel port bits and > converts them into a .T64 file directly. For alignment/phase, there's > a graphical mode that scrolls the data up the screen along with "guard > bands" that show where the app thinks a 0 and a 1 are. You use the > cursor keys to align the data from the tape drive and the guard bands > for optimal data parsing. Once you have an offset from this process, > you can use it as a command-line parameter for bulk reading. COOL! Where can I get this app? > It works well enough, but I really wish the source were available (it > never seems to be for DOS programs, unlike Unix and Amiga software). Is the author listed in the program? Have you tried contacting them? > I have a small pile of PET Rabbit-format tapes that I want to extract > from. My BASIC 2.0 PET needs repair (keyboard problems), so I can't > just read the data and save it to disk. I have plenty of 8032s, but > only one 2001 (got the 80-col PETs from university surplus for $10 a > few years ago; we got the 40-col, 32K PET when I was grade-school for > $1175). I have tons of software on tape for the PET and other platforms and will want to digitize all the images at some point. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Jan 10 13:21:39 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: Reading PET tapes (was Re: Apple disk -> MSDOS) In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jan 10, 02 09:40:18 am Message-ID: <200201101921.OAA17363@wordstock.com> > > I have tons of software on tape for the PET and other platforms and will > want to digitize all the images at some point. > Ok then... Do you have "Phuzzy and Wuzzy go to the Moon"? It was a short "movie" for the PET. Bryan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 10 13:29:38 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: Reading PET tapes (was Re: Apple disk -> MSDOS) In-Reply-To: <200201101921.OAA17363@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20020110192938.37626.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bryan Pope wrote: > > > > I have tons of software on tape for the PET... > > Ok then... Do you have "Phuzzy and Wuzzy go to the Moon"? It was a short > "movie" for the PET. I remember seeing "movies" on Cursor! magazine, but I don't recognize that title. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 10 14:51:46 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: Reading PET tapes (was Re: Apple disk -> MSDOS) In-Reply-To: <200201101921.OAA17363@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Bryan Pope wrote: > > I have tons of software on tape for the PET and other platforms and will > > want to digitize all the images at some point. > > Ok then... Do you have "Phuzzy and Wuzzy go to the Moon"? It was a > short "movie" for the PET. Beats me. Maybe. I don't know :) If I run into it I'll let you know. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 10 13:11:17 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: Tek scope service manuals References: <2f.20860f5b.296e88d7@aol.com> Message-ID: <004a01c19a0a$94d63020$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I just went back the site and got a COMPLETELY different page, with some of the same references, names, but, this time, pictures. I still don't see a "search" option, but it may be hiding there someplace. I don't know what I got that last time, but it was VERY different. BTW, I got many dozens of hits using GOOGLE and the search term . I'm looking for a service document in downloadable form for the TM515 "traveler" mainframe from the TEK TM500 series, since that's what I've been using for the past couple of decades. I've got a problem with my FG504 and PG508 in that frame, and I think there may be a power deficit. I did find a scan of the TEK475+DM44 manual. That's a good sign. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 11:04 PM Subject: Re: Tek scope service manuals > In a message dated 09/01/02 edick@idcomm.com writes: > > > Well ... it must be asleep. I wasn't even able to find a reference to it, > > though, so something's amiss. > > > > Dick > > > > Type 2430 into the search engine under Model No. > > I know their search engine leaves a bit to be desired but I used them to > buy an HP service manual. The best I could get in Europe was a photocopy > AND it cost more than the originals from ManualsPlus. > > Try http://www.big-list.com/usedmanu.html. It's a comprehesive list of > service manual dealers. > > Good Luck > Chris > > From dittman at dittman.net Thu Jan 10 13:14:07 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: PS/2 Model 70 Portable Message-ID: <200201101914.g0AJE7G16858@narnia.int.dittman.net> Okay, I've decided that I'm not going to fool around with this PS/2 any more, as it really isn't the type of thing I collect. Is anyone interested in it for $20+shipping? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Jan 10 13:16:32 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: Another reason why Dell sucks Message-ID: Even though their Optiplex PCs seem to be standard ATX form factor, their power supply does not meet the standard. Putting in a generic ATX power supply will not work. Something about the wiring being changed slightly on the power plug. perhaps someone else has details about that. -- From geoffr at zipcon.net Thu Jan 10 14:55:45 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: Another reason why Dell sucks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020110125450.042cb490@mail.zipcon.net> There's a 5v line (IIRC) broken away from the ATX plug and routed to an auxillary connector on the motherboard, a company makes an adaptor so you can use a standard ATX supply with a DELL mainboard. At 02:16 PM 1/10/02 -0500, you wrote: >Even though their Optiplex PCs seem to be standard ATX form factor, their >power supply does not meet the standard. Putting in a generic ATX power >supply will not work. Something about the wiring being changed slightly on >the power plug. perhaps someone else has details about that. > >-- From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Jan 10 13:33:18 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: References: from "Chris" at Jan 8, 2 10:20:17 pm Message-ID: <3C3D981E.14249.22A8B341@localhost> As has been mentioned here before, the Epson QX10's keyboard connector was a DIN-8 but the pins were offset a bit. I thought at first the pins might be bent since the connector would start to enter the port. Luckily I didn't force it and spoil the connector, even tho it seemed on inspection to be the same as other 8-pin DINs. Lawrence. > > > > >First, I've never found a female DIN-8 > > >port for sale (and not for lack of looking) > > > > Not that it will matter, as you don't plan to build it anyway... but for > > reference... MCM Electronics (www.mcm-electronics.com) sells Female Din-8 > > (although, isn't that size really a mini-din?). Mini-Din, Din, either > > There is a normal 8 pin DIN. That's the same diameter is the 5 pin DIN > used for the PC keyboard port, audio connections, etc. In fact there are > 2 different 8 pin DINs, both the same diameter, with different > positioning of the first and last pins in the 'circle'. Both types are > used on classic computers, in fact some machines have one of each type of > connector on them, so you can't get them the wrong way round. > > There is also the 8 pin mini-DIN used for (e.g.) the Mac serial ports. > Those are not DIN-8s, no matter what the catalogue may call them (didn't > we just go through a thread which seemed to be based on the idea that > catalogue terminology is not always correct :-)). > > -tony > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 10 13:36:59 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jan 9, 2 06:36:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1096 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020110/e1f4ede4/attachment.ksh From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 10 13:39:38 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS In-Reply-To: <01C1995C.709A83E0@mse-d03> Message-ID: <20020110193938.50128.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- M H Stein wrote: > CBM -> PC isn't the problem; I've got a couple of CmC ADA IEEE-> S/P > converters as well. The Cassette to Serial adapter sounds neat though. I can't wait to buy one - I have a variety of C= machines, and it is being designed to be *universal* - if your CBM has a 6-pin C2N-style cassette port, it is supposed to work with your ROM-resident tape routines. > Getting from the Apple to the CBM is the problem; I think I've got > software somewhere that'll connect the two cassette ports, but it'd take > till next Xmas/Kwanzaa/Chanukah to find it. I got the impression that's what you were going to do, but I didn't know there was a specific program to do it. I do remember an article in an old Compute! about reading ASCII BASIC tapes from an Apple into a PET - there was an app provided in assembler to read the Apple format from a C2N tape drive. You had to do a bit of work to tokenize the stream, but that was the only hard part. When a friend of mine and I needed to move data from the Apple to the C-64 years ago (the data file for an Infocom adventure), he had custom routines to bit-bang the joystick port as 1200 baud serial - I made a cable to tap into the user port on the C-64 and used its kernel routines. We both did 6502 programming for a living, so it was trivial to port the receiver app to the C= Would have been nice to have something Kermit-like back in those days. Either way, yes... Apple -> CBM is a bit tricky. -ethan > > Was just hoping there was a quick & easy direct way, but assuming Ernest > is > going to take the clone, I'm going to include it and ask him to transfer > the file(s) & > email them back to me since he does have serial capability. > > Thanks anyway, guys. Always interesting and often very informative & > helpful. > > mike > ------------------------Original Message---------------------- > Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 12:58:42 -0800 (PST) > From: Ethan Dicks > Subject: Re: Apple disk -> MSDOS > > - --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > I think with a little software I could transfer it > > > to one of my PETs via the cassette port, and from there > > > it would be trivial to get to a PC... > > > > Really? The PC can't do PET disks, either. But you MIGHT be able to > > interface one of the aftermarket IEEE488 drives to the Pet with some > > trivial hardware, and then interface it to the PC, and just write a > file > > system for it. > > An XE1541 cable is an easy enough item to build. If you have a 4040 > or 2031 drive on your PET, you could hook a 1541 to the PC, the IEEE > drive to the PET and sneaker-net stuff over. > > Marko Makela has a cool device that's about to hit the world - a cassette > port dongle for all CBM machines that speaks to a "modern" machine over > serial - you save to "cassette" from your PET, B500, C64, VIC-20, > whatever, > and run a virtual server on a serial line on a modern machine to scoop > up the data. No funny software required on the CBM side. He has a > prototype and pictures, but it's not quite available yet. > > I know there have been some projects to emulate an IEEE port from a > PeeCee > parallel port - enough to drive a 4040 floppy unit. If the software were > there, it'd be easy enough to turn the PeeCee into a virtual disk drive. > I think you could find the stuff already done. I don't think you'd have > to roll your own code to do this. > > My X1541 cable also has a 6-pin C= cassette port on it. I have read > many PET tapes directly from DOS with a real C2N tape recorder. It's > not as reliable as floppies (especially if there's a head alignment > problem), but it does work. Slow as molasses in January, though. > > > Personally, the 170K floppy shuffle is the easiest way with the most > common hardware. It does require that you have a couple of Commodore > devices, but they aren't uncommon. Serial ports on PETs *are* (but I > have a couple of IEEE<->RS-232 boxes from "TNW" and one ROM socket > ACIA board. Still doesn't make them "common" though). > > - -ethan > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 10 13:45:23 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020110194523.51456.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > There are actually numerous ways to get files from 5.25" Apple ][ > diskettes into a PC. > > Serial ports are a good one. One of the best ones when the disk format > is HARDWARE incompatible. Always a favorite. Even a lowly 1Mhz 6502 can bang out bits at 1200 bps. > All of the others require either special hardware, or multiple steps. > > Or, could get network cards for everything and build a heterogenous > network. I'd *love* that one... the easiest way to "cheat" would be to implement an 8-bit ISA slot for the 6502 and stick in an NE1000 or 3C501 card. There are TCP/IP stacks for the 6502, but I think most of them are PPP oriented and, therefore, don't include support for ethernet protocols like ARP. > Or connect serial/modem and upload to your ISP, and then download with > another machine. Done that one! > Or print it out and scan/OCR :-) Nice if it's short. Not nice if it's the entire contents of a floppy. > Or transfer through cassette port to a Pet, read the Pet disks with an > Amiga, write Mac disks with the Amiga, use a Mac to write PC disks. Or short-stop that one by attaching a 1541 to the PC with an X(E)1541 cable. I think there are more 1541 drives in the wild than 4040 drives. Can you read 4040 disks in an Amiga, even with a 5.25" drive? > How about interfacing an IR LED to the cassette port and writing routines > to write Palm compatible IR? How slow can the Palm go? Slow enough? Interesting idea, though. There are add-on IrDA interfaces out there - I have one for a 3.5" drive bay - gives me a window out the front to sync Palms, etc., to a machine with an IrDA connector on the motherboard. Not sure what the underlying serial protocol is, though. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 10 13:42:32 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: Compukit UK101 In-Reply-To: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021A06@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> from "Adrian Graham" at Jan 10, 2 10:09:53 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 276 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020110/80938200/attachment.ksh From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 10 14:30:27 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: Musicians (and computer music) In-Reply-To: <01C19968.CAD834E0@mse-d03> Message-ID: <20020110203027.43627.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> --- M H Stein wrote: > You do know that Hal Chamberlin (who came up with that mini-mini) > was THE MAN as far as PET music was concerned in those days? I recognize the name (I was 13 when I got my first PET, and all of my money went into the base computer, so I didn't read lots of computer mags - couldn't afford more than a couple per year). Any details on him anywhere? > Maybe he's got something to contribute to posterity when he gets > back from Korea. Korea? > -------------------------Original Message-------------------- > From: Ethan Dicks > Subject: Musicians (and computer music) > > ObClassic: Does anyone have any software for making music on the PET > with *other* than CB2 sound? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 10 14:32:33 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: Commodore laptop: was "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: <3C3CA494.24814.1EF13CAA@localhost> Message-ID: <20020110203233.43823.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> --- Lawrence Walker wrote: > Cameron and all Commodore "Gurus". I posted this before with no response. > I have a nice little Commodore Laptop for which I don't have a power > supply adaptor. C386SX-LT "made in Japan" "Funkenstort n. Vfg 1046/84". Sorry... too new for me. I have tech notes on some of the 8-bit C= PeeCee desktops, but no laptops. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From celt at chisp.net Thu Jan 10 15:07:52 2002 From: celt at chisp.net (Michael Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: Convergent Technologies Workstation password recovery/reset Message-ID: <3C3E02A8.8060800@chisp.net> Picked up this beast at thrift store this morning. It's a Convergent Technologies Workstation made by Unisys. Powering it up produces the following (my added comments in parentheses): T *************** L (hard disk activity begins here, LED '1' lights up) ................................... ................................... ................................... ................................... ..... (screen clears) a240MstrpMP-9.1/00 (screen clears) SysInit 9.15 There will be a momentary delay as the system now begins loading $JOB Sysinit,, Execution begun: Sat Mar 1, 1952 12:00M $RUN [d0]InstallQMgr.run Termination status code: 0 $RUN [d0]InstallSPL.run Termination status code: 0 $Run [Sys]SPrint.run (4 beeps here) Termination status code: 0 $END Execution ended: Sat Mar 1, 1952 12:00M (screen clears) SysInit 9.15 LUTHERAN SOCIAL SERVICES OF CO System Signon User Name Password Date/Time ----- There's a reference to a company in Minnesota called Service Information Systems, but their number has been disconnected. Probably dead or bought out and absorbed years ago. A Unisys Service Identification tag on the back of the CRT has: Service Number TP-191050 Style Number OM-1001 ZZ and a tag at the base of the unit has: Convergent Technologies Workstation Product Number 99-01640 Serial Number A-26671 This is mounted next to a tag stating 'No User Servicable Parts' (along with dire warnings about voiding your warranty, burning your extended family at the stake, and having your knees broken with baseball bats by guys with crooked noses named 'Vinny', should you dare to open the case.) I'd like to be able to clear the original owners' information off the drive and start over, but I'm unfamiliar with the OS and haven't had any luck getting past the login. Unisys has remade itself as an e-Business Solutions Provider, and their website has no useful information; a call to their tech support produced responses of 'Uhhh...' and 'You have a what?' along with muffled laughter. I think the 'a240MstrpMP-9.1/00' means that it's running CTOS 9.1, but I haven't been able to dig up any useful info on the unit itself, or the OS. Any ideas? Mike http://tarnover.org The Apple II Repository From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Jan 10 15:50:21 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: OT: RE: quest for pictures Message-ID: I have a couple of Olympus OM-1's that I use (vintage 1975, so they meet the 10-year rule). If the battery ever goes bad, the camera is still fully functional (except no built-in light meter). I can always use the f:16 rule in sunlight (exposure = f:16 at 1/[the ASA film speed]; e.g., f:16 @ 1/125 sec for ASA 100 film) or guess the exposure in other conditions. Bob -----Original Message----- From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 1:56 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: quest for pictures I personnaly prefer old, mechanical cameras. I can understand them, I can fix them (as you might have guessed by now, I like tinkering with _all_ types of machinery). Actually, I probably prefer fixing cameras to taking photographs. Electronically controlled film cammeras are just not eccentric enough to be interesting :-) -tony From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Jan 10 16:10:56 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: Wyse WY-50 Message-ID: I went to university salvage today, and along with a bunch of WY-60's they had one lone WY-50. If anyone is interested, I'm willing to ship it for what ever it costs me plut $5. Best guess, it'll cost $5 to purchase, but I have no clue how much to ship. I should be able to find packing material and a box around here for free, though. It it's wanted, I'll go Tuesday to pick it up. -- Pat West Lafayette, IN 47906 From mark_k at totalise.co.uk Thu Jan 10 16:11:34 2002 From: mark_k at totalise.co.uk (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:28 2005 Subject: More Deluxe Option Board software Message-ID: Hi, Some of you might remember that I uploaded version 5.4 of the Central Point Deluxe Option Board software a while ago. I recently received another Option Board, which came with a slightly earlier version of the software, as well as Copy II PC 6.0. None of the disks seem to have been written to since new. Both Option Board software versions are 5.4 according to the disk labels and READ.ME files. The disks I uploaded a while ago contain version 5.5 of MCP.EXE, compared with 5.4 for the version I just uploaded (see URL below). So these earlier disks may not be of much interest. Copy II PC 6.0 is a program for backing up copy-protected PC disks. Dated 1990, it probably doesn't handle protected high density disks (neither does the Deluxe Option Board software). It might work better in conjunction with a Deluxe Option Board card; I have not tested that. Anyway, I have uploaded disk images of this too. http://www.btinternet.com/~mark_k/Deluxe_Option_Board/ Instructions: download files and decompress using gzip. Use your favourite disk-image-writing program to write the disk images to floppy disks. (For example IBM's LOADDSKF for MS-DOS, WinImage for Windows, dd under UNIX-like OSes.) -- Mark From mythtech at Mac.com Thu Jan 10 16:15:13 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? Message-ID: >I really think the cheaper the hardware is, statistically >speaking, the more problematic it will be. Lower selling >cost goes hand in hand with less competent and lower paid >designers, programmers ( for device drivers ), smaller >support staff, less design and testing time alloted, minimalized >QC, etc. Agreed 100%, but when you factor in that 99% of the problems with a windows PC is caused by windows, then the lower quality hardware starts to not matter. If I was building an "intel" PC for use with something other than windows (or with something that quality makes a difference, like a mission critical server), then I would advise quality parts. I also take a totally different stance when it comes to buying a "business grade" PC. My advice points are strictly geared towards the consumer level, home PC, running the latest home user version of windows. For the average joe consumer, that can't understand what right-click means... then the cost invested in higher quality parts is a waste of money in my book. The only parts that I avoid like the plague are motherboards made by PC Chips. I have found them to be highly unreliable. But even with those, almost always, the problems occur out of the box, so the problems will appear within days of buying the machine, so since it was bought local (one of my stipulations for the average joe consumer), they can take it back and usually get it worked out. Also, when it comes to MY windows PCs, I use certain brands that I have had good luck with. I pay a bit more for certain things, to eliminate some possible headaches. But I know enough to build my own (something I recommend others do if they want a windows PC... right after I tell them to buy a Macintosh). By learning how to build it themselves... then they can track down better parts, and when things go wrong, won't be so helpless to getting them fixed. It will also translate to more stable systems as they have a better idea of what to do and what not to do. (my home PC cost me next to nothing, has decent quality parts, with money spent where it matters, and is rock solid running windows ME, which is almost an amazing thing in its own right) >I've often said, windows is a pretty good operating system, >until you put some programs on it. Is it the fault of windows >itself, or is it less than perfect programming on the part >of the third party companies that write the additional programs, >the device drivers, etc that we use, to write their software >to be rock solid running over windows? Ok, you are right, I think most of the windows problems are due to the applications and not the actual OS. But again, to the average consumer, there is no difference between it being an OS problem and an application problem. It just isn't working. >I have a feeling that if one >were to set up a windows machine with the best quality hardware >they could get, and use primarily only microsoft operating >systems and applications, they won't have near as many problems >with it. I have computers built with high quality hardware and ones with the cheapest crap I could find (including in many cases things I pulled from someone's trash). For the machines that run only windows, and MS applications... I have seen no noticable difference in stability. And actually, I find MS applications to be one of the LARGER offenders of crashing windows. It is not unusual for me to see MS Office being the only app installed on one of my Windows boxes, and see it crash all by itself. I have also had many problems with exchange crashing right after a default install... and problems with other MS software screwing up windows. I just chalk that up to painful irony (but at least you can't say MS is withholding info so that other apps crash, forcing everyone to use MS apps as the only stable apps... since theirs are just as, or more so, unstable than many 3rd party apps). >I find the motherboard is the heart of the system. I only >consider a mainboard from a company that has a web site >with docs, bios updates, etc online. Usually better quality >productions. I used to see the booklets that came with a mobo >that didn't even say what company produced them. We called >them ROCs, as in made in Taiwan, Republic of China. But >actually they started producing some very good quality stuff >in Taiwan, but then when we got more friendly with China, >some manufacturing moved there, to again lower the costs. >I avoid computer components made in China like the plague. I have found an amazing number of these cheap unlabeled mobos to be tracked back to PC Chips. I think at my last count, they were selling under something like 16 different names. And all of them were the same, crappy ass motherboard. I personally have found ASUS to be decent for the price, and so far have had fairly good luck with them (now that I said it, they are all going to blow up tomorrow... I just know it!). Alas, crappy MBs are a risk in cheap PCs... but at least in my experience, all the bad cheap ones I have dealt with, died very early on... so again, it is something that can get ironed out with the dealer. I think my point boils down to this: if you are going to buy a Windows PC, you are in for a long run of headaches and problems. So do you want them to be $2000 headaches, or $500 headaches? -chris From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jan 10 17:31:26 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <3C3E0846.AFAF16F9@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Eric Chomko wrote: > The only Dell systems that I have worked with are older desktop > units that are 133 - 266 MHz. They tended to be okay. The > power supplies are proprietary and I never planned on using > their customer service, nor any one else's for that matter. > I hate having to teach them their job and wasting my time in > the process! I will agree with you that these machines were well made, but Dell's quality has gone way down since then. The real bitch with Dell's proprietary supplies are that they use a connector that looks just like the one on ATX spec supplies. If you plug an ATX supply into a dell board, expect fireworks. They use a totally different pinout, and you'll end up with a dead power supply and or board. (I've never done this myself, but I know a few folks who did.) -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jan 10 17:46:51 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: Another reason why Dell sucks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > Even though their Optiplex PCs seem to be standard ATX form factor, their > power supply does not meet the standard. Putting in a generic ATX power > supply will not work. Something about the wiring being changed slightly on > the power plug. perhaps someone else has details about that. The pinout is totally different, much more then a minor change. You can make an adapter, but it looks like a rats-nest. Best way I've found to get a replacement Dell supply is to buy a used one from a scrap dealer, or from Dell (strangely, they do sell used ones.) -Toth From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jan 10 17:50:28 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: Starship simulator (was: VAX 11/780s...) References: <200201092230.g09MUM129558@ns2.ezwind.net> <3C3D1BEA.3CD51F55@bigvalley.net> <3C3CF5B0.B31813E8@jetnet.ab.ca> <3C3D8288.50702519@verizon.net> <3C3DE013.7074FD2F@jetnet.ab.ca> <3C3E064C.C3617647@verizon.net> Message-ID: <3C3E28C4.C0959660@jetnet.ab.ca> Ian Koller wrote: > > Ben, > > I wish we had it all today too. I'm sure we would have > been much further along if they hadn't cut the budget > back so severely after the apollo program wrapped up. But > the shuttle is a good working vehicle. Launches of the > shuttle are so common now, you only hear a blurb on it > on the news. In addition to flying Glenn back into space, > I wish they would take Yeager up one time too, just to > thank him for the contributions he also made. I don't think they wasted the last umm 40 years as it has taken to get out of the Cold War era. > > There are some small private outfits trying to develop > their own programs too, either in CA or somewhere out > west. But it still takes a lot of money, just not as > much as NASA requires. On CNN this morn, I believe there > was mention of a launch, but the vehicle was still a > $500,000 vehicle. I bet if you searched google, you > might find one of the private projects, that you might > even be able to contribute help to. The last good one was Rotary Rocket but has gone belly up. Lets see a new home is $250,000 so what is $1,000,000 for a space craft that works! But the bank don't give mortgages on space-craft. The other stuff is the X-prize contest stuff. I don't believe in contest stuff because you can't share good ideas. > One concern I have though is that until there is actually > a good destination to go to ( where there is air and water, > even if it has to be extracted ) there may not be enough > of a reason to make it commercially viable. Short hops to > get halfway around the globe in record time would be good, > but true deep space travel may need a destination that will > support life. I liken it to sailing. Some people like to > take their boat out just to go sailing, but I kind of always > wanted a destination to sail to. Sailing halfway out into the > Atlantic, just to see it, and coming back just never excited > me. If Columbus hadn't found the "New World" how many would > have continued to voyage out across the atlantic. Well I have a nice plot of land on MARS. If it legal that is another story. :) Also I don't think 8 bit computers are the best design for a computer. I don't expect sell any 24 bit cpu's but that still has not stopped me dreaming about a better computer. The same with space travel, we need the dreamers still do stuff. I expect people will find living in space hard because 'community' something that seems to be forgotten as a important aspect of life rather than $$$. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html -- PS. Buy a 24 bit cpu... I need the yearly world market quota of THREE filled! :) From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Jan 10 13:17:43 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: 3com 3station Message-ID: I just picked up a 3com 3station for a few $$ at university salvage today. It seems to be a rather neat little system. Inside it has a header (J9) that appears to be a floppy disk connector (34pin header). Does anyone know anymore about these things or have software for it (it'd be nice to use it as an Xterminal, but who knows if that'll ever work...) Thanks much! -- Pat From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1185.monmouth.com Thu Jan 10 12:18:53 2002 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1185.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: Pyramid OS/x (was: Re: Re: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available) In-Reply-To: from Tothwolf at "Jan 9, 2002 05:00:29 pm" Message-ID: <200201101818.g0AIIru08072@bg-tc-ppp1185.monmouth.com> > On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Bill Pechter wrote: > > > My favorite OS source code I'd like to see released is Pyramid's OS/x > > dual universe (SysV BSD) SMP port. > > Speaking of which, does anyone know what version of OS/x the R4400 cpu > based systems used? Anyone have a source for it? > > -Toth The OS/x was the Pyramid designed RISC... kind of Sparc-like. The DC/OSx was the SysV Rel4 R3000 series stuff. The R4400 was probably a Nile and I left Pyramid before they released them. Bill -- d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com From out2sea00 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 10 17:49:40 2002 From: out2sea00 at yahoo.com (Colin Eby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: PS/2 Model 70 Portable In-Reply-To: <200201102244.g0AMimv37241@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <20020110234940.74006.qmail@web14507.mail.yahoo.com> >...Okay, I've decided that I'm not going to fool around with this PS/2 any more, as it really isn't the type of thing I collect. Is anyone interested in it for $20+shipping? - -- Eric Dittman ...< Eric -- Abso-blinking-lutely. I've been watching out for one of those. I have this perverse fantasy about using one for a 5250 emulator. Email me off list and I'll make whatever arrangement you need. Thanks, Colin Eby Senior Consultant CSC Consulting __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jan 10 17:50:25 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: "Locking Connector Kits" for LocalTalk In-Reply-To: <3C3D981E.14249.22A8B341@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > As has been mentioned here before, the Epson QX10's keyboard connector > was a DIN-8 but the pins were offset a bit. I thought at first the pins might be > bent since the connector would start to enter the port. Luckily I didn't force > it and spoil the connector, even tho it seemed on inspection to be the same > as other 8-pin DINs. DigiKey and Mouser both sell this type of connector. They have 2 different types of 8-pin DIN connectors. I've run into this connector a few times in custom/specialty equipment. Square DIN connectors are even more fun ;P -Toth From jpero at sympatico.ca Thu Jan 10 12:54:52 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: References: <3C3E0846.AFAF16F9@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20020110235507.YZWL16289.tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > I will agree with you that these machines were well made, but Dell's > quality has gone way down since then. > > The real bitch with Dell's proprietary supplies are that they use a > connector that looks just like the one on ATX spec supplies. If you plug > an ATX supply into a dell board, expect fireworks. They use a totally > different pinout, and you'll end up with a dead power supply and or board. > (I've never done this myself, but I know a few folks who did.) > > -Toth While others vent their disgust with cause on oddball Dell's PSUs, I will say for sure that I have seen few Dells with same thing on old P5's all the way to very recent tiny towers that opens up like small carry-on suitcase w/ internal green handles (shades of IBM-style stuff). Other than that PSU fuss and dreadful drive rails, their documentations, drivers is good even on old machines, just look for s/n ID and call up the dell website's tech support, punch in info, done. Cheers, Wizard From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jan 10 17:58:19 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: Pyramid OS/x (was: Re: Re: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available) In-Reply-To: <200201101818.g0AIIru08072@bg-tc-ppp1185.monmouth.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Bill Pechter wrote: > The OS/x was the Pyramid designed RISC... kind of Sparc-like. > The DC/OSx was the SysV Rel4 R3000 series stuff. > The R4400 was probably a Nile and I left Pyramid before they released > them. Yes, the R4400 chips were used in Nile machines. They ran them at 75, 150 and 200MHz as I recall. -Toth From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Jan 10 10:45:34 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: Appropritate comic strip.... Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014674A8@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Have a look at this comic strip... (Wednesday's strip) http://www.rockwoodcomic.com/ --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From auringer at tds.net Thu Jan 10 18:06:55 2002 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: 3com 3station References: Message-ID: <3C3E2C9F.F5DA35D@tds.net> Hey Pat, Pat Finnegan wrote: > I just picked up a 3com 3station for a few $$ at university salvage today. > It seems to be a rather neat little system. Inside it has a header (J9) > that appears to be a floppy disk connector (34pin header). Does anyone > know anymore about these things or have software for it (it'd be nice to > use it as an Xterminal, but who knows if that'll ever work...) I don't have direct information on the 3station, but I do have a 3server. The 3server is based on a 80186 processor. Luckily it was pulled from service here before I took over. I recall that is was in need of almost constant attention. I will see if the documentation I have includes the 3station or any other pertinent information. Time permitting, of course. :) Later, Jon Jon Auringer auringer@tds.net From dittman at dittman.net Thu Jan 10 18:06:25 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: PS/2 Model 70 Portable In-Reply-To: <20020110234940.74006.qmail@web14507.mail.yahoo.com> from "Colin Eby" at Jan 10, 2002 03:49:40 PM Message-ID: <200201110006.g0B06Pk17946@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >...Okay, I've decided that I'm not going to fool > around with this PS/2 any more, as it really isn't the > type of thing I collect. Is anyone interested in it > for $20+shipping? - -- Eric Dittman ...< > > Eric -- > > Abso-blinking-lutely. I've been watching out for one > of those. I have this perverse fantasy about using one > for a 5250 emulator. Email me off list and I'll make > whatever arrangement you need. Sridhar has already claimed the PS/2. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 10 18:31:02 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > The real bitch with Dell's proprietary supplies are that they use a > connector that looks just like the one on ATX spec supplies. If you plug > an ATX supply into a dell board, expect fireworks. They use a totally > different pinout, and you'll end up with a dead power supply and or board. > (I've never done this myself, but I know a few folks who did.) Proprietary everything, you mean. I just stripped a client's Dimension P266 today, put the disks & NICs in a new chassis. I had forgoten. In a P-II 266, there was: No AGP - PCI only, although AGP was common & proven then. 70ns parity 72-pin DRAM SIMMs. Twice the price of even the ECC 168-pin SDRAM that was current. And half the speed. The DMA bus was, get this, EISA. The ever-popular 56K USR Sportster WinModem. The fabled Dell non-standard PSU, which *looks* standard The fabled Dell non-standard case - which looks like an ATX board should drop right in - NOT! The 90mHz to 366mHz Dells, while well-built, are some of the slowest dogs in their class. In their determination to force customers to buy upgrades only from Dell, they frequently used parts & sub-systems slower than the current technology. And we should not fail to mention the equally notorious Dell-badged 3Com PCMCIA Combo cards, that were 3Com seconds and fiddled so that only Dell drivers worked. You could buy them here for a while for $10 the handful. Bah! Doc From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jan 10 18:38:49 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: PS/2 Model 70 Portable In-Reply-To: <200201110006.g0B06Pk17946@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <200201110006.g0B06Pk17946@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: >Sridhar has already claimed the PS/2. He wanted mine but I wouldn't give it to him Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jss at subatomix.com Thu Jan 10 18:41:14 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: What to do with an empty BA23 In-Reply-To: <20020110202613.B21383@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20020110183923.H5705-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On 2002.01.09 23:49 Matt London wrote: > > Is it the blank rackmountable case, or do you have the plastic > revetment with foor stand? If yes put a pillow on it and you have a > nice seat. If no, send the plastic enclosure with floor stand to me. :-) I need two of them. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jan 10 18:46:12 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: quest for pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > At the bare minimum, I want real lens interchangeability. I'd prefer a > > Leica screw mount (just so I can use what I have), but realistically, a C > > mount (or even D) would be more practical. But ANY MOUNT! > I wonder how many people on this list actually know what C and D mounts > are, and what they were first associated with. C mount was most commonly used for 16mm movie cameras, and later for TV cameras. Later on, when "zoom" lenses became popular, lens interchangeability faded away, with the assumption that nobody would ever want anything other than what came with the camera. Kinda like the early Macs. D mount was used for 8mm movie camera. Like C mount, it was replaced with non-removable "zoom" lenses. > > What I REALLY want to see, is a 24 x 36mm imagining sensor mounted in a > > 35mm wide x ~1mm thick assembly, connected by a flexible 35mm wide to a > > cylindrical housing for batteries, circuitry, etc. Then it could be a > > drop-in retrofit for use with REAL cameras. > I think I've seen something like that in the UK. The resolution was > nothing great, though. And it assumed a certain spacing from 'cassette' > to fram, which meant it wouldn't fit all cameras. I've not seen one on > sale for a bit, though. Oh, well. > > I've seen a few medium format (4 x 5) film pack conversions, but they are > I'd call that 'large format'. Medium format is 2+1/4" square frames (and > similar sizes) on roll film. Most people would. I reserve the word "large" for 5 x 7, 8 x 10, and above. > > WAY too expensive, and don't have enough resolution to warrant their > > size. (anything less than 10 megapixel would be better suited for 35mm) > A good 35mm SLR with good film should be able to manage about 12Mpixels > equivalent I think (4000 * 3000 or so). And I'm not 'upgrading' to a > digital camera if the resolution goes down... I put quality well above > convenience in use, even if few others do. There are uses for both. There are some situations appropriate for each. For example: low res, TEMPORARY pictures, for web or email can be done more conveniently with a digital. But I'm NOT about to get rid of my old 35mm cameras and lenses, nor medium, nor large format cameras. From out2sea00 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 10 18:50:37 2002 From: out2sea00 at yahoo.com (Colin Eby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: Bought an IBM 5362 -- so now what do I do with this thing? In-Reply-To: <200201102244.g0AMimv37241@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <20020111005037.4536.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com> Dave, Charles and Folks -- Let me share what little I do know in case you haven't seen this yet. IBM makes very little reference to these systems. System/36 is mentioned on their corporate history page. It's a direct ancestor of the AS/400 series. The only specific information they have comes from their sales manual. * Search: http://www.ibmlink.ibm.com/ussman&parms= Our models are described this way (cribbed from above) : 5360 Multiple workstation system with multiprogramming capability. o 30 - 1432MB HDD o 128K - 7Mb RAM o 8 inch 1.2MB diskette o 36 - 72 local workstations 5362 System unit o 256K - 2MB RAM o 30 - 660MB HDD o 8 inch 1.2MB diskette o 28 local workstations o 64 remote workstations 5363 System/36 and Application Systems/Entry System Unit Compact, low-cost, floor-standing system that runs existing System/36 application programs without recompilation. o 1.0 - 2.0Mb RAM o 5.25 1.2Mb diskette o 65 - 1256Mb HDD o 28 local worstations o 64 remote worstations 5364 S/36 PC is a combination of the 5364 System Unit and a directly-attached IBM PC. The 5364 System Unit is a smaller, lower cost, floor standing or desk-top system that will run existing S/36 application programs without recompilation. The personal computer can run personal computer programs as well as act as the first S/36 workstation. o 256K - 1.0MB RAM o 5.25 inch 1.2Mb diskette o 40, 65, 80 or 130MB HDD o 6-9 local workstations (later upgraded to 16) The 5360 family has a multiple processor architecture. The main storage processor is an enhanced S/34 instruction processor. A control storage processor operates in parallel with the main storage processor, and provides microcoded control function for the I/O processors and interfaces. The processors use LSI (Large Scale Integration) for the logic circuitry. Storage technology is MOSFET (Metal Oxide semiconductor Field Effect Transistor). Data and instructions are stored as EBCDIC characters. Each EBCDIC character is stored in an 8-bit byte. ECC (Error Correction Code) is maintained in main storage. Single-bit error correction and double-bit error detection is performed on every two bytes. Parity is added for all data transfers to and from main storage. Now you know all I know. Help! Anything else would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Colin Eby Senior Consultant CSC Consulting __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jan 10 19:11:30 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > The 90mHz to 366mHz Dells, while well-built, are some of the slowest > dogs in their class. In their determination to force customers to buy > upgrades only from Dell, they frequently used parts & sub-systems slower > than the current technology. The Optiplex GX1 line is a notable example of Dell intentionally building in limitations...The earlier BIOS versions do not check the cpu's id. Later revisions do, and won't accept faster Pentium II and III cpus. With the right BIOS, the GX1 series can easily be upgraded to a stable P3-1GHz using a FCPGA to Slot-1 adapter and a 100MHz FSB P3 cpu. > And we should not fail to mention the equally notorious Dell-badged > 3Com PCMCIA Combo cards, that were 3Com seconds and fiddled so that only > Dell drivers worked. Seconds? That's the first time I've seen them called that. From what I remember, they are simply OEM versions of the same cards with their EEPROMS slightly changed. You can easily reprogram the EEPROMS on the PCI nics and such if you have a Linux or BSD system, but I'm not sure what it would take to reprogram the PCMCIA cards. It's quite possible the only real difference is the MAC address prefix. Most network cards/drivers use the MAC address to determine if the driver matches a certain board. Dell may have their own prefix, which would explain why the 3Com drivers would not work. There are a number of solutions to this kind of problem, the simplest one of all is getting rid of windows and the binary-only drivers. > You could buy them here for a while for $10 the handful. This would be a real bargain to those of us who don't run windows, are they still available? :) -Toth From jpero at sympatico.ca Thu Jan 10 14:22:18 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020111012303.CMND16860.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Proprietary everything, you mean. I just stripped a client's > Dimension P266 today, put the disks & NICs in a new chassis. I had > forgoten. In a P-II 266, there was: > No AGP - PCI only, although AGP was common & proven then. Note this one, I'll reply below. > 70ns parity 72-pin DRAM SIMMs. Twice the price of even the ECC 168-pin > SDRAM that was current. And half the speed. > The DMA bus was, get this, EISA. Remember: Dell like rare few others are Intel-ONLY boxens. This one you described is no AGP, slowww EDO and EISA means this is 4 chip KX set plus pair of intel chipsets for EISA, plus buggy IDE controller from thirdparty IDE controller. When I heard about that bug, I dropped that idea of gathering up that kind like hot patato. Basically standard stuff but very early stuff. LX chipset was first chipset to go AGP, busmastering IDE controller. LX and BX took southbridge set from TX for UDMA 33. Much stable and good performance afterwards. > The ever-popular 56K USR Sportster WinModem. Still is w/ some big-name makers. > The fabled Dell non-standard PSU, which *looks* standard > The fabled Dell non-standard case - which looks like an ATX board > should drop right in - NOT! Correct. > upgrades only from Dell, they frequently used parts & sub-systems slower > than the current technology. Proven stuff and software support because businesses who prefers reliablity will buy them. > And we should not fail to mention the equally notorious Dell-badged > 3Com PCMCIA Combo cards, that were 3Com seconds and fiddled so that only > Dell drivers worked. You could buy them here for a while for $10 the > handful. Not second-fiddle, they were modified with different firmware. Major name makers can't have second fiddle parts, silicon only works 100% or nothing (magic smoke gone). Dell doesn't want none of seconds that almost works (bad smoke-filled). :-) Compaq is infamous with Seagates drives that has compaq's firmware that were slowed down to meet compaq's specs. > Bah! Asolutely right. :-) > Doc Cheers, Wizard From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 10 19:58:03 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: quest for pictures In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jan 10, 2 04:46:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1005 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020111/ec099c40/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Jan 10 20:50:53 2002 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: IBM System/34... Message-ID: <13706230148.20.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> I need to get my hands on disk images of the microcode, SSP, and RPG II diskettes for an IBM S/34. I have the diskettes and a running PDP-11 with an RX02, but the S/34 uses a funny sector size and so the RX02 cannot read them. SSP version 8 would be nice but any version will work. My intentions are to write a software emulator to replace the System/34 that was maliciously destroyed in December by SSI Inc. (Long story there, short version: Hostile corporate takeover, hostile management forces old management out, uses building maintenance to gain access to a private storage area used by the old management and myself, and destroyed all equipment and data stored there, which included a S/36 and S/34, both in perfect running condition, my DEC Rainbow, miscellaneous PDP-10,PDP-11 and IBM manuals, and miscellaneous office equipment. Then, after depositing the remains in the dumpster, they called us out to observe their handiwork and ridicule us.) If anyone can either generate disk images on their own, or somehow read the disks I have (Or even better, tell me how to read them with my RX02) I would be very grateful. I am well-armed with documentation for the emulation project, I have system logic diagrams, descriptions of the micromachine, circuit prints, and all sorts of IBM manuals that I am probably not supposed to have. ^_^ Please mail dseagrav@lunar-tokyo.net with responses as I am not able to check this email address very often. Also, I will say now that I am unemployed and cannot pay for commerical data-conversion services. ------- From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 10 21:04:13 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? References: Message-ID: <3C3E562D.269F1CBE@verizon.net> Chris, These are many good point you raise. Ian Chris wrote: > > >I really think the cheaper the hardware is, statistically > >speaking, the more problematic it will be. Lower selling > >cost goes hand in hand with less competent and lower paid > >designers, programmers ( for device drivers ), smaller > >support staff, less design and testing time alloted, minimalized > >QC, etc. > > Agreed 100%, but when you factor in that 99% of the problems with a > windows PC is caused by windows, then the lower quality hardware starts > to not matter. If I was building an "intel" PC for use with something > other than windows (or with something that quality makes a difference, > like a mission critical server), then I would advise quality parts. I > also take a totally different stance when it comes to buying a "business > grade" PC. My advice points are strictly geared towards the consumer > level, home PC, running the latest home user version of windows. > > For the average joe consumer, that can't understand what right-click > means... then the cost invested in higher quality parts is a waste of > money in my book. The only parts that I avoid like the plague are > motherboards made by PC Chips. I have found them to be highly unreliable. > But even with those, almost always, the problems occur out of the box, so > the problems will appear within days of buying the machine, so since it > was bought local (one of my stipulations for the average joe consumer), > they can take it back and usually get it worked out. > > Also, when it comes to MY windows PCs, I use certain brands that I have > had good luck with. I pay a bit more for certain things, to eliminate > some possible headaches. But I know enough to build my own (something I > recommend others do if they want a windows PC... right after I tell them > to buy a Macintosh). By learning how to build it themselves... then they > can track down better parts, and when things go wrong, won't be so > helpless to getting them fixed. It will also translate to more stable > systems as they have a better idea of what to do and what not to do. (my > home PC cost me next to nothing, has decent quality parts, with money > spent where it matters, and is rock solid running windows ME, which is > almost an amazing thing in its own right) > > >I've often said, windows is a pretty good operating system, > >until you put some programs on it. Is it the fault of windows > >itself, or is it less than perfect programming on the part > >of the third party companies that write the additional programs, > >the device drivers, etc that we use, to write their software > >to be rock solid running over windows? > > Ok, you are right, I think most of the windows problems are due to the > applications and not the actual OS. But again, to the average consumer, > there is no difference between it being an OS problem and an application > problem. It just isn't working. > > >I have a feeling that if one > >were to set up a windows machine with the best quality hardware > >they could get, and use primarily only microsoft operating > >systems and applications, they won't have near as many problems > >with it. > > I have computers built with high quality hardware and ones with the > cheapest crap I could find (including in many cases things I pulled from > someone's trash). For the machines that run only windows, and MS > applications... I have seen no noticable difference in stability. And > actually, I find MS applications to be one of the LARGER offenders of > crashing windows. It is not unusual for me to see MS Office being the > only app installed on one of my Windows boxes, and see it crash all by > itself. I have also had many problems with exchange crashing right after > a default install... and problems with other MS software screwing up > windows. I just chalk that up to painful irony (but at least you can't > say MS is withholding info so that other apps crash, forcing everyone to > use MS apps as the only stable apps... since theirs are just as, or more > so, unstable than many 3rd party apps). > > >I find the motherboard is the heart of the system. I only > >consider a mainboard from a company that has a web site > >with docs, bios updates, etc online. Usually better quality > >productions. I used to see the booklets that came with a mobo > >that didn't even say what company produced them. We called > >them ROCs, as in made in Taiwan, Republic of China. But > >actually they started producing some very good quality stuff > >in Taiwan, but then when we got more friendly with China, > >some manufacturing moved there, to again lower the costs. > >I avoid computer components made in China like the plague. > > I have found an amazing number of these cheap unlabeled mobos to be > tracked back to PC Chips. I think at my last count, they were selling > under something like 16 different names. And all of them were the same, > crappy ass motherboard. > > I personally have found ASUS to be decent for the price, and so far have > had fairly good luck with them (now that I said it, they are all going to > blow up tomorrow... I just know it!). > > Alas, crappy MBs are a risk in cheap PCs... but at least in my > experience, all the bad cheap ones I have dealt with, died very early > on... so again, it is something that can get ironed out with the dealer. > > I think my point boils down to this: if you are going to buy a Windows > PC, you are in for a long run of headaches and problems. So do you want > them to be $2000 headaches, or $500 headaches? > > -chris > > From sipke at wxs.nl Thu Jan 10 21:22:12 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: ENIAC [Was: Re: Appropritate comic strip....] References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020110112240.032ee008@127.0.0.1> <3C3DD51A.4020006@aconit.org> Message-ID: <004f01c19a4f$2c7a7000$030101ac@boll.casema.net> FYI I got an emulator (win9x) of the Edsac (a SSEM contemporary english computer) somewhere in the emulator section of my website. With very instructive and elaborate documentation This will give you an good idea of the level of sophistication of computers from that era. Maybe crude to our current standards but cutting edge for those days ...................... in ..... files/Emulator/Edac Sipke de Wal ------------------------------------------------ http://xgistor.ath.cx ------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: Hans B Pufal To: Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 6:53 PM Subject: Re: ENIAC [Was: Re: Appropritate comic strip....] > Matthew Sell wrote: > > > > Has anyone ever attempted to recreate all or part of the ENIAC? Maybe as > > part of a CS project or museum? > > > For the 50th aniversary some few years ago there was a projet to put > ENIAC on a chip: > > http://www.ee.upenn.edu/~jan/eniacproj.html > > AFAIK no one has tried to rebuild the orginal in physical form. > > On a related topic, the original Manchester (England) machine > which ran its first program in 1948 was reconstructed from mainly period > components. The story is here: > > http://www.computer50.org/mark1/index.html#baby > > -- hbp > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 10 21:48:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020111034800.86133.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tothwolf wrote: > On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > > > And we should not fail to mention the equally notorious Dell-badged > > 3Com PCMCIA Combo cards, that were 3Com seconds and fiddled so that > > only Dell drivers worked. > > Seconds? That's the first time I've seen them called that. From what I > remember, they are simply OEM versions of the same cards with their > EEPROMS slightly changed. I had no idea they did that. I've been mostly quiet on this topic, since I have no strong opinions one way or the other, but all of _my_ experiences have been positive (OTOH, I've never had to call service). I have a Dell Latitude LM that I bought factory refurbed a few years ago for $900 (a good price at the time), and I'm on a company-issued Latitude CPx at the moment. I have a sufficient quantity of PCMCIA cards, but at one point, I did get a Dell-badged 3c589C and noticed it worked better than the 3c589D did - but that was under Solaris 7.0 for x86 (Solaris PCMCIA drivers are far from robust). > > You could buy them here for a while for $10 the handful. > > This would be a real bargain to those of us who don't run windows, are > they still available? :) We have a local computer shop that (last week) had as-is 3c589 NICs for $5, but no dongle. I bought a couple spares, and a Xircom PS-CEM-28 (also no dongles). Hopefully the 10BaseT dongle I have for another Xircom card will work (the 100BaseT dongles _are_ different). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 10 22:08:19 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <20020111012303.CMND16860.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > Not second-fiddle, they were modified with different firmware. Major > name makers can't have second fiddle parts, silicon only works 100% > or nothing (magic smoke gone). Dell doesn't want none of seconds > that almost works (bad smoke-filled). :-) Not exactly. The Dell version of that card, modified 3c589 if I remember right, is infamous among the Dell service folks here for losing the "latch" on the dongles. The Dell version used a cheaper PVC compund in the dongles, and the shoulder wore off the catch early. I've not seen that in 3Com originals. > Compaq is infamous with Seagates drives that has compaq's firmware > that were slowed down to meet compaq's specs. Yup. I have several of those, still under warranty. I'm trying very hard to thrash them. Bah! twice more. ;) Doc From tom at sba.miami.edu Thu Jan 10 22:14:29 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: Continuing PDP11 saga In-Reply-To: <10201100813.ZM23970@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: I think you're right. I borrowed a DZQ11 board from a friend, and I was able to set it to 770400. It returns 000000, but before it was in there, it would just give a ?, so I presumed I had the address set correctly. I tried to boot my program, and it gets right to the end of loading the program, and hangs, although the run light stays on. If I halt the system at this point, is there anything useful I can look at? I suppose if nothing else, I've learned that the program does indeed check for the presence of this module, and that I won't be able to fake it, unless there's some I'm missing here. Come to think of it, I left the vector address alone (I think at 300). Should I have changed that, too, or will it not make a difference since that board won't respond the same as the ADV11 anyway? Btw, the modules in the system will respond to both 18 and 22-bit addresses. Does that mean I'm 22-bit? Unfortunately, I'll have to cough up $350 for a half-broken ADV11-C, or a $750 for a working one, which I really don't want to do. I don't suppose anyone on this list has an ADV11-C (functional, half-functional, or not at all functional) that they wish to part with? :) Tom On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > Ouch! Sorry, I can't think of anything else offhand. Besides, if the > software is checking for the presence of the board, it might write some > initialisation value to it and try to read its status back. That would > most likely fail if you had the wrong device at that address. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jan 10 22:33:28 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: <20020111034800.86133.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > We have a local computer shop that (last week) had as-is 3c589 NICs > for $5, but no dongle. I bought a couple spares, and a Xircom PS-CEM-28 > (also no dongles). Hopefully the 10BaseT dongle I have for another > Xircom card will work (the 100BaseT dongles _are_ different). Well, I overpaid for my 3c589D about 4 years ago. It cost me around $70 used, although it was in its original box. 3com makes 2 versions of the dongle for the 3c589 series. One has a 10Base-2 BNC connector and RJ45, and one has a single RJ45. The 3c589 bundled with the single RJ45 dongle is more common, since it was usually around $25-35 less than the other version. The single RJ45 dongle is available for around $5-10 directly from 3com, and I imagine the dual media version of the dongle sells for roughly twice that. These boards also came with a 2 pair 10Base-T cable that is very flexible and around 6 feet long. I never found that cable to be very useful since it always seemed to be too short to reach where I needed it to go. While I'm thinking about it, I believe the 3c589D was later replaced by the 3c589E. I don't know what the differences are, but they did use the same driver. Incidentally, the 3com EtherLink III series and later NIC products are covered by a lifetime warranty. This warranty also seems to cover the 3c523 (microchannel, 16 bit) NIC. If the product fails, 3com will replace it with a refurbished (usually just re-certified) unit of the same type. On one occasion, 3com replaced a dead board I sent them with a different, but better unit, since they were unable to locate another identical board. For common products such as the 3c509 (ISA), 3c90x (PCI), and PCMCIA cards, they will be replaced by an identical unit. Xircom should still have replacement dongles available, but I've had very limited exposure to their product line. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jan 10 22:39:46 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > On Thu, 10 Jan 2002 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > > Not second-fiddle, they were modified with different firmware. Major > > name makers can't have second fiddle parts, silicon only works 100% > > or nothing (magic smoke gone). Dell doesn't want none of seconds > > that almost works (bad smoke-filled). :-) > > Not exactly. The Dell version of that card, modified 3c589 if I > remember right, is infamous among the Dell service folks here for losing > the "latch" on the dongles. The Dell version used a cheaper PVC compund > in the dongles, and the shoulder wore off the catch early. I've not > seen that in 3Com originals. This does not surprise me. The dongles that 3com manufacture use a fiberglass or carbon fiber body and a softer less brittle (not ABS, maybe polystyrene?) plastic for the housing. Dell always did like to use cheaper plastics for many things, but I imagine a genuine 3com dongle would certainly fix these kinds of problems. > > Compaq is infamous with Seagates drives that has compaq's firmware > > that were slowed down to meet compaq's specs. > > Yup. I have several of those, still under warranty. I'm trying very > hard to thrash them. Good luck, some of those Seagate drives are very tough :) -Toth From mythtech at Mac.com Thu Jan 10 22:38:07 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? Message-ID: >We have a local computer shop that (last week) had as-is 3c589 NICs >for $5, but no dongle. I bought a couple spares, and a Xircom PS-CEM-28 >(also no dongles). Hopefully the 10BaseT dongle I have for another >Xircom card will work (the 100BaseT dongles _are_ different). I saw some generic dongles down at the CompUSA a little while back. They were $25. The blister pack said it worked with 3com and other PCMCIA cards. I used it successfully with a XIRCOM 10bt/56k modem card (only with the Ethernet half... modem used a different connection, but that looked similar to the one that fit in my old ActionTec modem, I just never got around to trying it). The dongle also said it worked with 10/100 ethernet. There are no markings on the dongle of value (it is here in front of me) so I can't tell you the brand, but I do know for sure I bought it at CompUSA -chris From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 10 23:05:52 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > not work. There are a number of solutions to this kind of problem, the > simplest one of all is getting rid of windows and the binary-only drivers. > > > You could buy them here for a while for $10 the handful. > > This would be a real bargain to those of us who don't run windows, are > they still available? :) No, that's why I hate 'em. Dell turned a perfectly decent combo card into a WinNIC. Toth, if you look at my headers you'll notice that binary-only drivers are NOT my problem. AFAIK, nobody has ever gotten the Dell version to run stable in Linux. I prefer D-Link or Xircom for pcmcia NICs, anyhow. If you want a real bargain, go to http://www.mchoward.com and get their phone number. Call, ask for Mel or Bob, tell them I told you about the D-Link PCMCIA adapters. They, M.C. Howard Electronics, just got a whole raft of surplus D-Link DFE-680TXD CardBus 10/100 units in. Mel's selling them - card only, no box or dox - for $15 each. They'll ship, too. I don't know if there's a minimum on shipping. Notes on the web say the D-Link is supported by the tulip_cb module, but I can't verify yet. As usual, I started out to build the module I need, deciding to get the newer version of pcmcia_cs sources, then decided to get the new kernel while I'm at it. I'll let y'all know in an hour or so. I LIKE those guys at MC Howard. It's the only computer store I know of in Austin that still uses a soldering iron. They've built SIMMs for me for my RS6Ks.... Doc From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jan 10 23:29:21 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: Convergent Technologies Workstation password recovery/reset References: <3C3E02A8.8060800@chisp.net> Message-ID: <3C3E7831.F6DE8F59@internet1.net> comp.sys.unisys Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Michael Maginnis wrote: > > Picked up this beast at thrift store this morning. It's a Convergent > Technologies Workstation made by Unisys. Powering it up produces the > following (my added comments in parentheses): From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Jan 10 23:32:02 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: test Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020110233202.008b6ba0@ubanproductions.com> please ignore From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jan 10 23:33:51 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > This would be a real bargain to those of us who don't run windows, are > > they still available? :) > > No, that's why I hate 'em. Dell turned a perfectly decent combo card > into a WinNIC. Toth, if you look at my headers you'll notice that > binary-only drivers are NOT my problem. AFAIK, nobody has ever gotten > the Dell version to run stable in Linux. I thought that the pcmcia-cs developers had finally worked out this issue? I guess I was mistaken. I imagine the differences between the two versions of the card are very minor, and could be worked around somehow. Again, it's possible all that needs to be done is the EEPROM reprogrammed in these Dell OEM cards so that it more resembles that of the genuine 3com version. > If you want a real bargain, go to http://www.mchoward.com and get > their phone number. Call, ask for Mel or Bob, tell them I told you > about the D-Link PCMCIA adapters. They, M.C. Howard Electronics, just > got a whole raft of surplus D-Link DFE-680TXD CardBus 10/100 units in. > Mel's selling them - card only, no box or dox - for $15 each. They'll > ship, too. I don't know if there's a minimum on shipping. > Notes on the web say the D-Link is supported by the tulip_cb module, > but I can't verify yet. As usual, I started out to build the module I > need, deciding to get the newer version of pcmcia_cs sources, then > decided to get the new kernel while I'm at it. I'll let y'all know in > an hour or so. > I LIKE those guys at MC Howard. It's the only computer store I know > of in Austin that still uses a soldering iron. They've built SIMMs for > me for my RS6Ks.... I'm not currently in the market for any new PCMCIA NICs, but I'll keep them in mind if my situation changes anytime soon. Thanks for the info. -Toth From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Jan 10 23:13:14 2002 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: Adaptec 1510 - SCSI Hard Drive Question References: <3C3DD94C.5200BCF5@idirect.com> Message-ID: <3C3E746A.227403F8@idirect.com> Much as I hate to admit I am using W95 on a Pentium 166 MMX, it is really to run E11 and run RT-11. Included, I have an Iomega SCSI Insider (100 MByte Zip drive) which came with a (wonder of wonders) Adaptec 1510 SCSI host adapter (at least I think that was the Adaptec number - it is inside the guts of the motherboard and I ca pull it to check if absolutely necessary). Now, wonder of wonders, not only does the 1510 and the Iomega APSI device drivers support the Zip drive, but I can also connect the Sony SMO S-501 as well. In fact, at one point, I had 3 of the Sony magneto optical drives (SCSI ID 0,1,2 and the Zip at ID 6) all running on the 1510 and of course recognizing all four SCSI units at boot time (along with a C: drive and an IDE CD-ROM drive) for a total of 8 drives: A: (3.5" floppy) B: (5 1/4" floppy) C:, D:, E:, F:, G: (Zip) and H: (CD-ROM). About half the time I boot without the Sony drives and the ZIP drive and the Iomega device driver complains there are no SCSI IDs, and I just press any character to continue. On occasion, I want to use a SCSI hard drive (currently I have both a ST11200N and a ST32550N) instead of the Sony drives (I hardly ever use the Zip drive - it is normally cabled to the 50-pin cable but not powered on). When that happens, i.e. want to use the Seagate drives, I find it necessary to FIRST boot W95 with the Sony drive powered on at the same SCSI ID I will be using for the Seagate drive. Then I power down all the Sony drives, disconnect them ALL from the end of the cable (a 50 pin external centronics connector since the Sony drives are external boxes) and power up (sometimes all three) the Seagate drives, i.e. I can't seem to keep both the Seagate drives and the Sony drives powered up on the SCSI cable at the same time. In addition, if I boot W95 with just the Seagate drives powered on, they are not even recognized at all - actually not quite true. Although W95 and the device drivers from Iomega will not allow these Seagate SCSI hard drives, the are "partially" recognized by E11 to the point that I can "MOUNT" them under E11, but I can't really access them properly. It looks as if the Iomega supplied device drivers will not recognize a fixed (i.e. non-removable media hard drive). I would prefer to not use W95, but that is all I have to use when I post to classiccmp and use email and the internet. Plus, I really use the PC to run RT-11 on the PC, so please don't suggest getting a MAC or running Linux or some equally reasonable answer since I like having the system right now with RT-11 and the Zip and Sony drives and I can put up with the problem of having to boot with Sony drives if I have to. So, it sounds like a termination problem on the SCSI bus. But the ST11200N is definitely terminated from the drive. I checked at: http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/scsi/st11200n.html and J2 has both the Parity and Terminator jumpers. But when even just one ST11200N drive is cabled on and powered on by itself, booting W95 does not recognize the ST11200N, but having the Sony drive there first does the job as stated above. So I am starting to think the problem is more likely the device drivers. Could the 1510 and the Adaptec device drivers just not recognize an ST11200N (or any other SCSI hard drive that is not removable), but be fooled once booted with the Sony drive which has a removable media? NOTE: I want to use the ST32550N under both RT-11 as a permanent and much faster hard drive (the Sony is quite slow) and W95 as a backup device - I have an option on a bunch of these drives even if I can't solve the boot problem - does anyone else want a few as well? Question: Can anyone HELP? Does anyone have any experience with the device drivers from Iomega for their Zip drives? If that is the problem, then I am probably stuck since I prefer to keep the Sony and Zip drives over the hard drives. Plus if having to re-cable after I boot with a Sony drive is the answer, then I can probably live with that for a few more years. Thanks in advance for any suggestions! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From spedraja at ono.com Fri Jan 11 00:23:19 2002 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: What to do with an empty BA23 Message-ID: <001001c19a68$76ce6a80$0101a8c0@gw.cavorita.net> Somebidy has one unused rackable BA23 for sale/trade/donate ? (Whispering) Greetings Sergio -----Mensaje original----- De: Matt London Para: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Fecha: viernes, 11 de enero de 2002 0:07 Asunto: Re: What to do with an empty BA23 >Hi, > >> > If all else fails, anyone think of >> > an alternative use for a BA23? :&) >> According to: http://world.std.com/~bdc/projects/vaxen/vaxgeektop10.html >> Is it the blank rackmountable case, or do you have the plastic revetment >> with foor stand? If yes put a pillow on it and you have a nice seat. >> That was what I used my BA23 for at the LinuxTag 2000. I had a MV II in >> it running 4.3BSD-Tahoe. Quite funny. Especially as it attracted other >> geeks. (Including a bearded man with a RedHat... :-) ) > >Nah - it's rackmount :&) > >I met / chatted to a bearded man with a RedHat after Linux Expo 2000 in a >pub - it was Alan Cox :&) > >-- Matt > >--- >Web Page: > http://knm.org.uk/ > http://pkl.net/~matt/ > From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Fri Jan 11 02:10:05 2002 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: 3com 3station Message-ID: <20020111.021006.-267945.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> The 3Station was an early IBM compatible diskless workstation. They used a 12Mhz 80286 IIRC. The network boot protocol was proprietary to 3COM, but once you were linked to a disk image on a Server running 3+Share (and 3+Start) you could use any protocol that had drivers for the NIC on the 3Station. There were two version of the 3Station; the main differences being Video and maximum memory size. It seems like there were ROM's available that allowed you to use it on a Novell network, but I don't remember the details. I don't think using it as an X-Station is a good idea-- I strongly suspect you'll need a bit more muscle to do X. Besides, if it's the earlier model 3c1100 (very likely) it can only do EGA, MDA or (yeek) CGA. I still have a copy of 3+Share (and 3+Start) around here someplace . . . That remark about the 3Server needing constant attention was right on the mark. I lost quite a few nights sleep maintaining one of these beasties (my first SYSADMIN job). I could almost run the diags in my sleep after awhile. The backup system almost never worked. Jeff On Thu, 10 Jan 2002 18:06:55 -0600 Jon Auringer writes: > Hey Pat, > > Pat Finnegan wrote: > > > I just picked up a 3com 3station for a few $$ at university > salvage today. > > It seems to be a rather neat little system. Inside it has a > header (J9) > > that appears to be a floppy disk connector (34pin header). Does > anyone > > know anymore about these things or have software for it (it'd be > nice to > > use it as an Xterminal, but who knows if that'll ever work...) > > I don't have direct information on the 3station, but I do have a > 3server. The 3server is based on a 80186 processor. Luckily it was > pulled from service here before I took over. I recall that is was in > need of almost constant attention. I will see if the documentation I > have includes the 3station or any other pertinent information. Time > permitting, of course. :) > > Later, > Jon > > Jon Auringer > auringer@tds.net ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Jan 11 02:31:05 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: What to do with an empty BA23 In-Reply-To: ; from classiccmp@knm.yi.org on Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 23:52:21 CET References: <20020110202613.B21383@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20020111093105.J21383@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.01.10 23:52 Matt London wrote: > Nah - it's rackmount :&) Hmm. OK. we need a new idea. > I met / chatted to a bearded man with a RedHat after Linux Expo 2000 > in a pub - it was Alan Cox :&) We speak about the same person. The funny part is: Some friends and I where running the BSD booth at the LinuxTag 2000 and that MV II was our main seat. When Alan came along, one of us tried to sell him a FreeBSD CDROM, but did not know to who he was trying to sell it. Alan declined the offer with the argument, that he has already a machine running FreeBSD to do comparisions between FreeBSD and Linux... When I chatted with him he said that he had several MVen in 19" racks, but he gave them away to avoid a dispute with his wife. Only a DECsystem 5400 (PMAX MIPS machine with QBus) remained. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From mhstein at usa.net Fri Jan 11 03:30:00 2002 From: mhstein at usa.net (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: Reading PET tapes (was Re: Apple disk -> MSDOS) Message-ID: <01C19A5D.472DBB60@mse-d03> Some questions for the CBM experts: CBM->PC seems pretty trivial through a Parallel or Serial adapter (although ML might be tricky 'cause you can't just list it), but how do you get it back to a CBM? If you're just archiving, couldn't you just connect the CBM cassette port to the PC sound card line in&out, with _maybe_ a little padding and/or shaping since I think CBM, unlike most folks of that era, squared up the audio a little in the datasette (although ISTR that it usually worked OK with a normal recorder, and presumably you could set the levels with the PC volume controls)? Especially if there's an app that can decode the .wav files, what else do ya need? Reminds me of the days when I "networked" my PETs with a 40' cassette "Null modem" cable. Where could I find that cassette reader & .wav decoder, BTW? Tell us more! F'rinstance, I see someone elsewhere on the list looking for Phuzzy-Wuzzy; I remember it well and probably have it somewhere (although I didn't find it either in the Cursor tape index). So, if I do find it and this person wants it, how, specifically, could I email it to him/her in a format that he/she could load into the PET without having to build anything complicated (or mailing the actual tape)? Seems to me this goes on all the time in the amazingly active CBM community, I'm just not sure of the exact details (cable pinouts, required software, etc.) BTW, need a chiclet keyboard? Just recently tossed my small KB 2001 (yes, working - I can hear the curses...) but I think I've got at least two almost new chiclet keyboards (no worn-off legends, protective plastic still on most keys) left from the days when we were replacing them with the full-size ones (that's me, toss the good stuff & keep the junk). Mind you, you might have to take the case with it, along with the funky chopped-up datasette. Also have a 2001 motherboard, maybe 2. BTW, speaking of CBM, I recall a recent discussion abt using a US 8032 in the UK and problems with a wavy screen (not to mention learning a lot about magnetic shielding); I wasn't positive at the time, but from what I've read there definitely (as definite as the printed word gets) was a different ROM for 50Hz operation to avoid that problem. mike ---------------------Original Message----------------------- From: Ethan Dicks Subject: Reading PET tapes (was Re: Apple disk -> MSDOS) - --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > My X1541 cable also has a 6-pin C= cassette port on it. I have read > > many PET tapes directly from DOS with a real C2N tape recorder. > > How is the cassette data read by the PC? Does it decode the audio? Not audio (though there is an app that will decode .WAV files of PET tapes). Someone wrote a DOS app that reads the parallel port bits and converts them into a .T64 file directly. For alignment/phase, there's a graphical mode that scrolls the data up the screen along with "guard bands" that show where the app thinks a 0 and a 1 are. You use the cursor keys to align the data from the tape drive and the guard bands for optimal data parsing. Once you have an offset from this process, you can use it as a command-line parameter for bulk reading. It works well enough, but I really wish the source were available (it never seems to be for DOS programs, unlike Unix and Amiga software). I have a small pile of PET Rabbit-format tapes that I want to extract from. My BASIC 2.0 PET needs repair (keyboard problems), so I can't just read the data and save it to disk. I have plenty of 8032s, but only one 2001 (got the 80-col PETs from university surplus for $10 a few years ago; we got the 40-col, 32K PET when I was grade-school for $1175). - -ethan From mhstein at usa.net Fri Jan 11 04:39:16 2002 From: mhstein at usa.net (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: Reading PET tapes (was Re: Apple disk -> MSDOS) Message-ID: <01C19A66.980CC540@mse-d03> As asked elsewhere: If I find it & Sellam doesn't, how would I get it to ya in a useful format? mike ------------------Original Message---------------- From: Bryan Pope Subject: Re: Reading PET tapes (was Re: Apple disk -> MSDOS) Ok then... Do you have "Phuzzy and Wuzzy go to the Moon"? It was a short "movie" for the PET. Bryan From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Fri Jan 11 03:53:00 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: Compukit UK101 Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021A12@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Sent: 10 January 2002 19:43 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Compukit UK101 > > Well, FWIW, the articles I have say time and again that if > the machine > ever fails to respond to the keyboard, the first thing to > check is that > Shift Lock is down :-) > And guess what! Working system.....grr....:) Now to attempt repair on the other one and maybe try and work out what all the spare boards I've got do! One is supposed to be a colour display, there's one with a Big Speaker on (hmm :) plus half a dozen others. l8r a From quapla at xs4all.nl Fri Jan 11 04:03:39 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: Continuing PDP11 saga References: Message-ID: <3C3EB87B.4AA96F2F@xs4all.nl> I have here an ADC-11 from Andromeda systems. The board contains a AD converter module from Datel systems Inc, and has 16 channels with a 12 bit resolution. It came from a working system, but there is no documentation. There is however a drawing on the top of the AD converter module which may all the info needed. Ed Tom Leffingwell wrote: > > I think you're right. I borrowed a DZQ11 board from a friend, and > I was able to set it to 770400. It returns 000000, but before it was in > there, it would just give a ?, so I presumed I had the address set > correctly. I tried to boot my program, and it gets right to the end of > loading the program, and hangs, although the run light stays on. If I > halt the system at this point, is there anything useful I can look at? I > suppose if nothing else, I've learned that the program does indeed check > for the presence of this module, and that I won't be able to fake it, > unless there's some I'm missing here. > > Come to think of it, I left the vector address alone (I think at > 300). Should I have changed that, too, or will it not make a difference > since that board won't respond the same as the ADV11 anyway? > > Btw, the modules in the system will respond to both 18 and 22-bit > addresses. Does that mean I'm 22-bit? > > Unfortunately, I'll have to cough up $350 for a half-broken > ADV11-C, or a $750 for a working one, which I really don't want to do. I > don't suppose anyone on this list has an ADV11-C (functional, > half-functional, or not at all functional) that they wish to part with? :) > > Tom > > On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > Ouch! Sorry, I can't think of anything else offhand. Besides, if the > > software is checking for the presence of the board, it might write some > > initialisation value to it and try to read its status back. That would > > most likely fail if you had the wrong device at that address. > > > > -- > > Pete Peter Turnbull > > Network Manager > > University of York > > -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Kilometerheffing : De overheid '97 TL1000S | weet waar je bent geweest! From mhstein at usa.net Fri Jan 11 04:45:19 2002 From: mhstein at usa.net (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: Musicians (and computer music) Message-ID: <01C19A66.9BE1E920@mse-d03> Don't I recall correctly that someone (Jay?) tracked him down in Korea, but that he was going to be back soon? mike -----------------Original Message-------------------- From: Ethan Dicks Subject: Re: Musicians (and computer music) >>Hal Chamberlin >> Maybe he's got something to contribute to posterity when he gets >> back from Korea. >Korea? From mhstein at usa.net Fri Jan 11 05:04:24 2002 From: mhstein at usa.net (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS Message-ID: <01C19A66.9FADE540@mse-d03> Very useful indeed, although I do prefer an external P-S converter; cheap, nothing to build, and plugs into anything with a serial port. Also love those KB converters for an easy way to get contact closures or serial data into unfriendly PC apps. On a semi-related note, does anyone know of a program that can read a text file and send it to a Windows app as keyboard input like the DOS keyboard emulators of old? Or can I do that with the Win Scripting Host? mike -----------------Original Message-------------------- From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Re: Apple disk -> MSDOS A fairly useful thing to have/build is a computer with a parallel 'printer' input. From classiccmp at knm.yi.org Fri Jan 11 05:27:35 2002 From: classiccmp at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: What to do with an empty BA23 In-Reply-To: <20020111093105.J21383@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: Hi, > > I met / chatted to a bearded man with a RedHat after Linux Expo 2000 > > in a pub - it was Alan Cox :&) > We speak about the same person. The funny part is: Some friends and I > where running the BSD booth at the LinuxTag 2000 and that MV II was our > main seat. When Alan came along, one of us tried to sell him a FreeBSD > CDROM, but did not know to who he was trying to sell it. Alan declined > the offer with the argument, that he has already a machine running > FreeBSD to do comparisions between FreeBSD and Linux... > When I chatted with him he said that he had several MVen in 19" racks, > but he gave them away to avoid a dispute with his wife. Only a DECsystem > 5400 (PMAX MIPS machine with QBus) remained. Ahh - I fear I will have to do the same for my gf, but I plan on emigrating to canada to be with her anyway, so I won't be able to take most of my kit. When that time comes, I'm sure classiccmp will be able to find good homes, unless I have to resort to ePay to get some money for the move :&/ -- Matt --- Web Page: http://knm.org.uk/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ From auringer at tds.net Fri Jan 11 07:08:49 2002 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:29 2005 Subject: What exactly is a MINC-11, and does anyone need one? Message-ID: <3C3EE3E1.B96C9574@tds.net> Hello all, Another item I keep forgetting about is a digital MINC-11. This appears to be a data acquisition system of some sort. The MINC chassis contains only a clock card and an AD card. The chassis is on a cart that also contains a digital RX02 dual 8" floppy drive enclosure. The most curious thing is that there is a label stuck to the front warning that the unit "220VAC/50Hz only". I don't know if this is the only voltage it will run at, or if it is simply set for this voltage. I don't believe we ever used this equipment. I think we acquired it when we purchased some other surplus equipment back in the 1980s. Can anyone use this thing? Later, Jon Jon Auringer auringer@tds.net Astronautics Technology Center Madison, WI From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jan 11 08:50:43 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: IBM System/34... Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225CE3@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > my DEC Rainbow, miscellaneous PDP-10,PDP-11 and IBM manuals, and miscellaneous > office equipment. Then, after depositing the remains in the dumpster, they > called us out to observe their handiwork and ridicule us.) I don't know what I'd have done had this happened to me. But I recently saw the following .sig line that expresses an almost appropriate opinion: > W > . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because > \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est > ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- Grrr.... -dq From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 11 08:55:15 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: Reading PET tapes (was Re: Apple disk -> MSDOS) In-Reply-To: <01C19A5D.472DBB60@mse-d03> Message-ID: <20020111145515.6795.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> --- M H Stein wrote: > Some questions for the CBM experts: > > CBM->PC seems pretty trivial through a Parallel or Serial adapter > (although ML might be tricky 'cause you can't just list it), but how > do you get it back to a CBM? If I needed to move a random block of data (ML code, for example), *one* way, if you are using a hardware serial port on the CBM and some kind of text capture would be to open the serial port on the CBM, CMD to it, enter the TIM monitor, and do a Memory list command. That _should_ pump the hex dump out the serial port. If you have an advanced monitor in another ROM socket, most of them had on-the-fly disassembly. > If you're just archiving, couldn't you just connect the CBM cassette port > to the PC sound card line in&out... Yes. That's been done, too. > Reminds me of the days when I "networked" my PETs with a 40' cassette > "Null modem" cable. Never tried that. I built the multi-machine game cable described in an ancient issue of Byte (it wasn't so ancient at the time). I even used it to move stuff between my 32K PET and my brand-spanking-new C-64 (since I didn't want to wait for tapes to load/save). > Where could I find that cassette reader & .wav decoder, BTW? I have copies of them at home. I will get names, places, etc., and post them here. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Jan 11 09:11:35 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: Reading PET tapes (was Re: Apple disk -> MSDOS) In-Reply-To: <01C19A66.980CC540@mse-d03> from "M H Stein" at Jan 11, 02 05:39:16 am Message-ID: <200201111511.KAA18241@wordstock.com> Mike, The best way would be in .T64 or .D64 format... Unfortunately I don't have a PET at this time. (But I think it should be easy to find the PET emulator for the C64!) Thanks, Bryan > > As asked elsewhere: If I find it & Sellam doesn't, how would I get it to ya in a useful > format? > > mike > ------------------Original Message---------------- > > From: Bryan Pope > Subject: Re: Reading PET tapes (was Re: Apple disk -> MSDOS) > > Ok then... Do you have "Phuzzy and Wuzzy go to the Moon"? It was a short > "movie" for the PET. > > Bryan > > > From tom at sba.miami.edu Fri Jan 11 09:06:49 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: What exactly is a MINC-11, and does anyone need one? In-Reply-To: <3C3EE3E1.B96C9574@tds.net> Message-ID: I'd be interested...esp, in the AD card, and the RX02 as well. Do you know what the AD card is, and whether or not its Q-bus? Tom On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Jon Auringer wrote: > Hello all, > > Another item I keep forgetting about is a digital MINC-11. This appears > to be a data acquisition system of some sort. The MINC chassis contains > only a clock card and an AD card. The chassis is on a cart that also > contains a digital RX02 dual 8" floppy drive enclosure. > > The most curious thing is that there is a label stuck to the front > warning that the unit "220VAC/50Hz only". I don't know if this is the > only voltage it will run at, or if it is simply set for this voltage. I > don't believe we ever used this equipment. I think we acquired it when > we purchased some other surplus equipment back in the 1980s. > > Can anyone use this thing? > > Later, > Jon > > Jon Auringer > auringer@tds.net > > Astronautics Technology Center > Madison, WI > From rmeenaks at olf.com Fri Jan 11 09:12:28 2002 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: More transputer auctions... Message-ID: <3C3F00DC.2F6D4D2C@olf.com> Hi, Check out the following transputer-based auctions running on Yahoo! I am NOT associated with this auction, contact the buyer for any details: Inmos B404 processing TRAM, this is a T800 transputer, 2MB dram with some static ram. http://page.auctions.shopping.yahoo.com/uk/auction/59758007 Processing TRAM, single size, with T425 transputer and 1MB DRAM, http://page.auctions.shopping.yahoo.com/uk/auction/59758028 Inmos B008 10 TRAM 16 bit ISA transputer motherboard for PC http://page.auctions.shopping.yahoo.com/uk/auction/59758052 Transtech TMB16 10 TRAM 16 bit ISA transputer motherboard for PC http://page.auctions.shopping.yahoo.com/uk/auction/59758161 Cheers, Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Jan 11 09:21:25 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: 3com 3station In-Reply-To: <20020111.021006.-267945.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Jan 2002 jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > There were two version of the 3Station; the main differences > being Video and maximum memory size. It seems like there were By looking at mine, I can tell it uses a VGA monitor, and has 1M of RAM (upgradable to 5M with SIMMs I have laying around here). Oh yeah, it looks to be a 20MHz 80286 also. > I still have a copy of 3+Share (and 3+Start) around here > someplace . . . That would be nice if you could find it. However, I won't hold my breath for it. After attempting to hook an old floppy drive up to it's 34pin connector, I realized it was definately designed for something else (one orientation froze the box, the other shorted out the power supply :-( ) I'm hoping to take some time and figure out the 'expansion connector'. If I'm lucky, maybe it's something close to ISA? At any rate, the ROM BIOS is a rather standard version, and socketed. If all else fails, I'll try to burn my own BIOS onto an EPROM/Flash or 2 so I can excercize its bus or use the 'netboot' project to download a copy of Minix onto it :) . > > That remark about the 3Server needing constant attention > was right on the mark. I lost quite a few nights sleep > maintaining one of these beasties (my first SYSADMIN job). > I could almost run the diags in my sleep after awhile. > The backup system almost never worked. I'll take that into consideration. Thanks for the help! -- Pat > Jeff From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Jan 11 09:13:54 2002 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: What exactly is a MINC-11, and does anyone need one? References: <3C3EE3E1.B96C9574@tds.net> Message-ID: <3C3F0132.820D6EA5@idirect.com> >Jon Auringer wrote: > Another item I keep forgetting about is a digital MINC-11. This appears > to be a data acquisition system of some sort. The MINC chassis contains > only a clock card and an AD card. The chassis is on a cart that also > contains a digital RX02 dual 8" floppy drive enclosure. Jerome Fine replies: The MINC-11 was a box used to provide easy access to a Qbus backplane. Normally, data acquisition was done with the system, as you suspect. It was an 18 bit backplane with a number of Qbus slots at one side which held an 11/23 CPU (usually the dual version M8186), memory, DLV11-J, and a controller or two. The RX02 controller was normally standard and the RL01/RL02 controller was also popular. An RXDX1 or RQDX2 could be added as well, but there hardware needed to be adapted to either the RX50 or the hard drive. In between the boards mentioned and the BDV11 on the other side was a number of Qbus slots to hold data acquisition boards. This was a 1979 to 1980 item - I think that would be the time frame. Since the BDV11 boot roms could not handle an 11/73 (odd address trap), that CPU could not easily be substituted. > The most curious thing is that there is a label stuck to the front > warning that the unit "220VAC/50Hz only". I don't know if this is the > only voltage it will run at, or if it is simply set for this voltage. I > don't believe we ever used this equipment. I think we acquired it when > we purchased some other surplus equipment back in the 1980s. Probably JUST the setting in the power supply. > Can anyone use this thing? If you were closer, I would take the RX02 drive. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Jan 11 09:45:47 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: Wyse WY-50 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > I went to university salvage today, and along with a bunch of WY-60's they > had one lone WY-50. If anyone is interested, I'm willing to ship it for > what ever it costs me plut $5. > > Best guess, it'll cost $5 to purchase, but I have no clue how much to > ship. I should be able to find packing material and a box around here for > free, though. > > It it's wanted, I'll go Tuesday to pick it up. OK, If anyone else wants one of the WY-60's that are there (some with, some without keyboard, specify which) you can ask me for one of those too. I'll guess price w/keyboard will be about $10 and without will be $5 also. Just let me know no later than Monday night. > > -- Pat > > West Lafayette, IN 47906 > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jan 11 10:23:03 2002 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: HP-125 CPM computer for sale Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020111112303.007b3cc0@mailhost.intellistar.net> I spotted this on E-bay and thought some of you might be interested. Don Maslin has SW for this. I own a 125 and I can tell anything that you need to know about them. E-mail directly since I'm not on the list any more. Joe From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1367.monmouth.com Fri Jan 11 10:27:45 2002 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1367.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: What exactly is a MINC-11, and does anyone need one? In-Reply-To: <3C3EE3E1.B96C9574@tds.net> from Jon Auringer at "Jan 11, 2002 07:08:49 am" Message-ID: <200201111627.g0BGRjf11280@bg-tc-ppp1367.monmouth.com> > Hello all, > > Another item I keep forgetting about is a digital MINC-11. This appears > to be a data acquisition system of some sort. The MINC chassis contains > only a clock card and an AD card. The chassis is on a cart that also > contains a digital RX02 dual 8" floppy drive enclosure. Nice box... > > The most curious thing is that there is a label stuck to the front > warning that the unit "220VAC/50Hz only". I don't know if this is the > only voltage it will run at, or if it is simply set for this voltage. I > don't believe we ever used this equipment. I think we acquired it when > we purchased some other surplus equipment back in the 1980s. The floppies (IIRC) had different pulleys based on the power frequency. I don't believe conversion was difficult. Anyone else sure on the above. > > Can anyone use this thing? > > Later, > Jon > > Jon Auringer > auringer@tds.net I wish I had one, but I'm too far away and the wife wants me to clean up the pile of stuff I've got at present. -- d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 11 10:15:24 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: Adaptec 1510 - SCSI Hard Drive Question References: <3C3DD94C.5200BCF5@idirect.com> <3C3E746A.227403F8@idirect.com> Message-ID: <004801c19abb$2cf99300$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerome Fine" To: Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:13 PM Subject: Adaptec 1510 - SCSI Hard Drive Question > Much as I hate to admit I am using W95 on a Pentium 166 MMX, it > is really to run E11 and run RT-11. > > Included, I have an Iomega SCSI Insider (100 MByte Zip drive) which > came with a (wonder of wonders) Adaptec 1510 SCSI host adapter > (at least I think that was the Adaptec number - it is inside the guts of > the motherboard and I can pull it to check if absolutely necessary). > The first thing I'd suspect as a source of trouble is the IOMEGA product. I have one or more of nearly every IOMEGA removable media drive that they ever produced, and not a single one has ever worked as advertised. BTW, if you're booting from the SCSI chain, the controller is absolutely not an AHA 1510, since that's a ROM-less version. > > Now, wonder of wonders, not only does the 1510 and the Iomega > APSI device drivers support the Zip drive, but I can also connect > the Sony SMO S-501 as well. In fact, at one point, I had 3 of the > Sony magneto optical drives (SCSI ID 0,1,2 and the Zip at ID 6) > all running on the 1510 and of course recognizing all four SCSI > units at boot time (along with a C: drive and an IDE CD-ROM > drive) for a total of 8 drives: A: (3.5" floppy) B: (5 1/4" floppy) > C:, D:, E:, F:, G: (Zip) and H: (CD-ROM). > > > About half the time I boot without the Sony drives and the ZIP drive > and the Iomega device driver complains there are no SCSI IDs, and > I just press any character to continue. > You may find you have better luck with the ADAPTEC drivers rather than the IOMEGA verson. I have used both ZIP and JAZ drives with IOMEGA's drivers, and they've never worked satisfactorily. > > On occasion, I want to use a SCSI hard drive (currently I have both > a ST11200N and a ST32550N) instead of the Sony drives (I hardly > ever use the Zip drive - it is normally cabled to the 50-pin cable but > not powered on). When that happens, i.e. want to use the Seagate > drives, I find it necessary to FIRST boot W95 with the Sony drive > powered on at the same SCSI ID I will be using for the Seagate > drive. Then I power down all the Sony drives, disconnect them ALL > from the end of the cable (a 50 pin external centronics connector > since the Sony drives are external boxes) and power up (sometimes > all three) the Seagate drives, i.e. I can't seem to keep both the > Seagate drives and the Sony drives powered up on the SCSI cable > at the same time. > Now, how many devices? At which addresses? It doesn't matter, of course, which addresses you use, unless you want to boot from one of these devices. If it's to be a bootable drive, it will have to be at ID=0 or ID=1. > > In addition, if I boot W95 with just the Seagate drives powered on, > they are not even recognized at all - actually not quite true. Although > W95 and the device drivers from Iomega will not allow these Seagate > SCSI hard drives, the are "partially" recognized by E11 to the point > that I can "MOUNT" them under E11, but I can't really access them > properly. It looks as if the Iomega supplied device drivers will not > recognize a fixed (i.e. non-removable media hard drive). > This is likely an artifact of the IOMEGA approach to SCSI system configuration. The IOMEGA driver requires you have a previously defined configuration in the SCSI.SCF file (or whatever that thing is called) and any change in the configuration "breaks" the operability of the entire chain. The ADAPTEC driver will work better in that respect, since it doesn't require a previously defined configruation. Under W95, you just go to device-manager and "refresh" the SCSI adapter, after which the newly powered-on devices will suddenly appear in the "my computer" window. > > I would prefer to not use W95, but that is all I have to use when I post > to classiccmp and use email and the internet. > You'll have better luck if you purge all IOMEGA software from your system. I've found that IOMEGA drives work better with the ADAPTEC drivers, though you can't perform any low-level functions, such as low-level format, on them unless you use the IOMEGA setup. You might find that it works most easily if you boot a version of DOS that you've set up to support the IOMEGA tools whenever you want to perform those functions. > > Plus, I really use the PC to run RT-11 on the PC, so please don't suggest > getting a MAC or running Linux or some equally reasonable answer since > I like having the system right now with RT-11 and the Zip and Sony drives > and I can put up with the problem of having to boot with Sony drives if I > have to. > > So, it sounds like a termination problem on the SCSI bus. But > the ST11200N is definitely terminated from the drive. I checked at: > http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/scsi/st11200n.html > and J2 has both the Parity and Terminator jumpers. But when even just > one ST11200N drive is cabled on and powered on by itself, booting W95 > does not recognize the ST11200N, but having the Sony drive there first > does the job as stated above. > > So I am starting to think the problem is more likely the device drivers. > You'll find that out if you try the ADAPTEC drivers and leave the ZIP drive off the chain for the moment. > > Could the 1510 and the Adaptec device drivers just not recognize an > ST11200N (or any other SCSI hard drive that is not removable), but > be fooled once booted with the Sony drive which has a removable media? > I've found the 1510/152x controllers work about as well as SCSI adapters can be expected to work, and with a WIDE range of devices. I used the SONY MO drives with them for some time, until they became too valuable to keep. > > NOTE: I want to use the ST32550N under both RT-11 as a permanent > and much faster hard drive (the Sony is quite slow) and W95 as a backup > device - I have an option on a bunch of these drives even if I can't solve > the boot problem - does anyone else want a few as well? > What do you mean by "W95 as a backup device?" Doesn't RT-11 support backup? > > Question: Can anyone HELP? Does anyone have any experience with the > device drivers from Iomega for their Zip drives? If that is the problem, then > I am probably stuck since I prefer to keep the Sony and Zip drives over the > hard drives. Plus if having to re-cable after I boot with a Sony drive is the > answer, then I can probably live with that for a few more years. > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions! > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > > From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri Jan 11 10:26:27 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue? Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014674B5@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! >We have a local computer shop that (last week) had as-is 3c589 NICs ! >for $5, but no dongle. I bought a couple spares, and a ! >Xircom PS-CEM-28 ! >(also no dongles). Hopefully the 10BaseT dongle I have for another ! >Xircom card will work (the 100BaseT dongles _are_ different). ! ! I saw some generic dongles down at the CompUSA a little while ! back. They ! were $25. The blister pack said it worked with 3com and other PCMCIA ! cards. I used it successfully with a XIRCOM 10bt/56k modem card (only ! with the Ethernet half... modem used a different connection, but that ! looked similar to the one that fit in my old ActionTec modem, I just ! never got around to trying it). ! ! The dongle also said it worked with 10/100 ethernet. There are no ! markings on the dongle of value (it is here in front of me) ! so I can't ! tell you the brand, but I do know for sure I bought it at CompUSA ! ! -chris ! ! ! Well, I have the Xircom 10/100 & 56k modem combo card, that has the actual jacks buit into it. No dongles to worry about :-P Granted, it does take up two PCMCIA slots, but I don't have anything else to use in there now anyway... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From mrfusion at uranium.club.cc.cmu.edu Fri Jan 11 11:05:16 2002 From: mrfusion at uranium.club.cc.cmu.edu (Lord Isildur) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: VAX 6400 booting saga: barred from using MULTINET (sigh!) In-Reply-To: <3C126207.2070000@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: you could also try to install CMU-IP. what version of VMS is this? it was once a popular free tcpip for VMS.. it should still be findable around here somewhere in some dusty directory on an ftp server.. On Sat, 8 Dec 2001, Gunther Schadow wrote: > - Screw multinet and find some DECnet implementation for FreeBSD. > Heck, obviously Linux has a DECnet support, so why don't we? > The serial port is just not an option to move the several > hundred MB of ULTRIX data over. Also, an ultrix box has decnet support as well. Isildur From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Jan 10 13:08:51 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: quest for pictures In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 10 Jan 2002 09:56:39 PST." Message-ID: <200201101908.TAA13882@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" said: > > What I REALLY want to see, is a 24 x 36mm imagining sensor mounted in a > 35mm wide x ~1mm thick assembly, connected by a flexible 35mm wide to a > cylindrical housing for batteries, circuitry, etc. Then it could be a > drop-in retrofit for use with REAL cameras. You mean like Silicon Film Technologies (e)Film?? A 35mm cassette with a 1.3 MPixcel chip that fits a number of SLRs (but unfortunately not my old A1...). I believe thy're having problems getting it to market, but it'll come. Surely Canon A1s are on topic, they're over 10 years old and contain a computer ;-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Jan 11 12:58:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: quest for pictures References: <200201101908.TAA13882@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <3C3F35B9.5622A57A@jetnet.ab.ca> Stan Barr wrote: > Surely Canon A1s are on topic, they're over 10 years old and contain a > computer ;-) Nope... the computer does not have wheels. :) -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From stanb at dial.pipex.com Fri Jan 11 13:45:34 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: quest for pictures In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:58:01 MST." <3C3F35B9.5622A57A@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <200201111945.TAA27083@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Ben Franchuk said: > Stan Barr wrote: > > > Surely Canon A1s are on topic, they're over 10 years old and contain a > > computer ;-) > Nope... the computer does not have wheels. :) My A1 plus motor drive and Vivitar Srs.1 28-90 Varifocal lens is heavy enough to _need_ wheels ;-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jan 11 15:15:34 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: quest for pictures In-Reply-To: <200201111945.TAA27083@citadel.metropolis.local> References: <200201111945.TAA27083@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: > > > Surely Canon A1s are on topic, they're over 10 years old and contain a >> > computer ;-) >> Nope... the computer does not have wheels. :) > >My A1 plus motor drive and Vivitar Srs.1 28-90 Varifocal lens is heavy >enough to _need_ wheels ;-) My A-1 with Kiron 70-210 zoom and motor winder is heavy too but at least the lens isn't long enough that it has the tripod mount on it vice on the camera! Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ghldbrd at ccp.com Fri Jan 11 12:45:02 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: Old TV show References: <01C1995C.785D35A0@mse-d03> <000901c199a1$0dfa0cc0$85b1ff0a@cvendel> <006c01c199e2$e1f25be0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <005801c199f3$8a7942f0$60b1ff0a@cvendel> Message-ID: <3C3F32AE.5D6B4AED@ccp.com> Curt Vendel wrote: > > Hi John, > > Yeah, thats right, everytime a MS product was shown, there was always a > Mac comparision, always lots of small startup software company people on > talking about great products they had, they would do a little helpdesk thing > sometimes, showing people common issues, they were very Mac centric in shows > which was cool too. Those shows were a lot of fun to watch (and listen to > on the Radio).... something to do while watching the lights of the Hayes > Smartmodem blinking away in the middle of the night knowing someone was on > your computer while it was running BBS software.... Man, I miss that > stuff!!! > > Curt > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Allain" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:27 AM > Subject: Re: Old TV show > > > > I don't remember that one, but I do remember the Computer > > > Cronicles.... they used to have a Radio Show every Sunday > > > night at 9pm or so, then I recall they had a TV show for a while > > > after that, I think on PBS Public Educational TV here in NYC, > > > don't know where else. > > > > Good old Stewart Chiefet. Think that show originated from KTEH > > in Silly Valley. Great show. His co-Host for some time was Gary > > Kildall of all people. It was pretty even handed. The MS Wonk > > would give his presentation then somebody from nowhere would > > be up showing how his SW could do just as well or better. Stewart > > still lives on in the NYC area latenight on 'Net Cafe'. Absolutely on > > topic since CC predated 1988. By how much I don't know. > > > > It lives!: http://www.cmptv.com/computerchronicles/ > > > > John A. > > Yes, I remember it well, back when I wa struggling to learn the innards of my VIC-20. I* even remmber seeing the Video Toaster demo on there. Too bad there isn't a show today like that, or should I say the coporate geniuses at Microslop wouldn't 'allow' competitors to strut their stuff. Gary Hildebrand From curt at atari-history.com Fri Jan 11 12:52:08 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: Old TV show References: <01C1995C.785D35A0@mse-d03> <000901c199a1$0dfa0cc0$85b1ff0a@cvendel> <006c01c199e2$e1f25be0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <005801c199f3$8a7942f0$60b1ff0a@cvendel> <3C3F32AE.5D6B4AED@ccp.com> Message-ID: <00e501c19ad1$143478b0$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Too bad there isn't a show today like that, or should I say the coporate geniuses at Microslop wouldn't 'allow' competitors to strut their stuff. Its interesting you say that.... I used to be a MS advocate (now now, calm down....) when I saw products like Excel on both the PC and Mac and Windows was coming along (although GEM on the ST's was far better, just those damned Atari STM-1 mice were horrible to use) well as the years went by and saw how they were killing companies like Novell (of course Novell hurt themselves for their own shortsightedness) and then the big competition against IBM's OS/2 which was a far superior OS in my view. Well, when I started hearing about small startup companies with great new products (many were the small java based firms) and MS would swoop in, buy them up, put the products into some filing cabinets and either fire or assimilate the employees and move on, thats when I realized that competitors will never "strut their stuff" because the big MS will come down and wipe them out. People wonder why so many hate MS..... Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Hildebrand" To: Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 1:45 PM Subject: Re: Old TV show > Curt Vendel wrote: > > > > Hi John, > > > > Yeah, thats right, everytime a MS product was shown, there was always a > > Mac comparision, always lots of small startup software company people on > > talking about great products they had, they would do a little helpdesk thing > > sometimes, showing people common issues, they were very Mac centric in shows > > which was cool too. Those shows were a lot of fun to watch (and listen to > > on the Radio).... something to do while watching the lights of the Hayes > > Smartmodem blinking away in the middle of the night knowing someone was on > > your computer while it was running BBS software.... Man, I miss that > > stuff!!! > > > > Curt > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John Allain" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:27 AM > > Subject: Re: Old TV show > > > > > > I don't remember that one, but I do remember the Computer > > > > Cronicles.... they used to have a Radio Show every Sunday > > > > night at 9pm or so, then I recall they had a TV show for a while > > > > after that, I think on PBS Public Educational TV here in NYC, > > > > don't know where else. > > > > > > Good old Stewart Chiefet. Think that show originated from KTEH > > > in Silly Valley. Great show. His co-Host for some time was Gary > > > Kildall of all people. It was pretty even handed. The MS Wonk > > > would give his presentation then somebody from nowhere would > > > be up showing how his SW could do just as well or better. Stewart > > > still lives on in the NYC area latenight on 'Net Cafe'. Absolutely on > > > topic since CC predated 1988. By how much I don't know. > > > > > > It lives!: http://www.cmptv.com/computerchronicles/ > > > > > > John A. > > > > > Yes, I remember it well, back when I wa struggling to learn the innards > of my VIC-20. I* even remmber seeing the Video Toaster demo on there. > Too bad there isn't a show today like that, or should I say the > coporate geniuses at Microslop wouldn't 'allow' competitors to strut > their stuff. > > Gary Hildebrand -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020111/d93d9c0a/attachment.html From allain at panix.com Fri Jan 11 13:10:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: Old TV show References: <01C1995C.785D35A0@mse-d03> <000901c199a1$0dfa0cc0$85b1ff0a@cvendel> <006c01c199e2$e1f25be0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <005801c199f3$8a7942f0$60b1ff0a@cvendel> <3C3F32AE.5D6B4AED@ccp.com> Message-ID: <000f01c19ad3$9197b4a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Too bad there isn't a show today like that, or should I say > the coporate geniuses at Microslop wouldn't 'allow' competitors > to strut their stuff. I agree on your point on MS, but I should mention now that there's another good show on (at present) called _"Digital Duo"_ http://www.digitalduo.com/, their hosts don't seem to have any problem criticizing MS (with supporting arguments given). And _"Net Cafe"_ aint bad either. The number one reason why I'm not a member of WNET-NYPBS now is that it seems to dump all these great shows at the drop of a hat -- perhaps your PBS hasn't. example quote: http://www.digitalduo.com/412_dig.html "Every couple of years, and sometimes more often than that, Microsoft comes out with a massive upgrade of its Windows operating system. Once in a while, it's a really major improvement, like Windows 95. But a lot of times it's just a bunch of bug fixes that should have been offered for free and maybe some cute new features. That was certainly the case with Windows 98. Windows Me is decidedly in the bug-fix category except that this time the new features turn out to be third-rate knockoffs of other people's software." John A. From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Jan 11 12:58:35 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: (fwd) Free Radio Shack Model 100 computers (fwd) Message-ID: Forwarded from a newsgroup for possible interest: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:51:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: (fwd) Free Radio Shack Model 100 computers -- forwarded message -- From: test2@pactec.net (Dave) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.swap,rec.radio.swap Subject: Free Radio Shack Model 100 computers Date: 11 Jan 2002 09:28:49 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ I have 11 Radio Shack Model 100 laptop PCs and 5 associated Chipmunk 3.5" floppy drives sitting in the radio shop at work. We no longer need them and I wanted to offer them free to anyone who might want them before we throw them out. Only one manual. You pay only the shipping. Dave N7BHC (909) 389-1122 -- end of forwarded message -- From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jan 11 14:54:42 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: (fwd) Free Radio Shack Model 100 computers (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Dave, >I have 11 Radio Shack Model 100 laptop PCs and 5 associated Chipmunk >3.5" floppy drives sitting in the radio shop at work. We no longer >need them and I wanted to offer them free to anyone who might want >them before we throw them out. Only one manual. You pay only the >shipping. I'd be interested in one of the sets, if any are still available. I've got a M102 but I don't believe the Chipmunk drive will work on the 102 will it? Thanks and take care Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jan 11 15:13:13 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: (fwd) Free Radio Shack Model 100 computers (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Geez....hate when I hit send and forget to changed the 'To:' address first.... >Hi Dave, > >>I have 11 Radio Shack Model 100 laptop PCs and 5 associated Chipmunk >>3.5" floppy drives sitting in the radio shop at work. We no longer >>need them and I wanted to offer them free to anyone who might want >>them before we throw them out. Only one manual. You pay only the >>shipping. > > I'd be interested in one of the sets, if any are still >available. I've got a M102 but I don't believe the Chipmunk drive >will work on the 102 will it? > > Thanks and take care > Jeff >-- > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.cchaven.com > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mrfusion at uranium.club.cc.cmu.edu Fri Jan 11 12:52:44 2002 From: mrfusion at uranium.club.cc.cmu.edu (Lord Isildur) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: VAX 6000-460 booting saga continues ... In-Reply-To: <20011230100150.V10688-100000@mail.huebner.org> Message-ID: no, ultrix supports SMP from version 4 onward, on both MIPS and VAX. Though, i have heard it is not very good at it.. A friend of mine when i was in school told me about an 8000 series VAX that had been taken offline a couple years before i got there (to be replaced by a bunch of pmaxen and then sparc 20s), which ran ultrix, which they ran in sngle processor mode after they discovered it was actually faster than running on both processors... so, ymmv. but yes, ultrix does do SMP. isildur On Sun, 30 Dec 2001, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hans_H=FCbner?= wrote: > Am I missing something? In my memories, Ultrix does support only one CPU. It > would be a shame to have 5 idle CPUs, but if you insist on doing so, just send > the unused CPU boards to my direction so that we can beef up vax6k.openecs.org > :) From ragge at ludd.luth.se Fri Jan 11 15:44:31 2002 From: ragge at ludd.luth.se (Anders Magnusson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: VAX 6000-460 booting saga continues ... In-Reply-To: from Lord Isildur at "Jan 11, 2002 01:52:44 pm" Message-ID: <200201112144.WAA01012@father.ludd.luth.se> > > processor mode after they discovered it was actually faster than running on > both processors... so, ymmv. but yes, ultrix does do SMP. > That's really not true :-) I have a running 8800 here, and while it was working as ftp server it was easily diagnosed to give very close to the double capacity when the second CPU was turned on. I'd say that the Ultrix SMP implementation works very well for such use. -- Ragge From mrfusion at uranium.club.cc.cmu.edu Fri Jan 11 18:07:55 2002 From: mrfusion at uranium.club.cc.cmu.edu (Lord Isildur) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: VAX 6000-460 booting saga continues ... In-Reply-To: <200201112144.WAA01012@father.ludd.luth.se> Message-ID: probably had a lot to do with the workload; this machine was used as a shell machine and had a heavy mail and netnews load, lots of interactive io, lots of processes.. i can imagine that the smp mode spent a lot of time in that kind of workload in spin-locks.. but it is a second-hand information source, as i wasnt myself there at the time.. isildur On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Anders Magnusson wrote: > > > > processor mode after they discovered it was actually faster than running on > > both processors... so, ymmv. but yes, ultrix does do SMP. > > > That's really not true :-) I have a running 8800 here, and while it was > working as ftp server it was easily diagnosed to give very close to the > double capacity when the second CPU was turned on. I'd say that the > Ultrix SMP implementation works very well for such use. > > -- Ragge > From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Jan 11 13:00:20 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: (fwd) FS: Dauphin DTR-1 computer (fwd) Message-ID: Forwarded from a newsgroup for any possible interest: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:52:06 -0500 (EST) From: John Lawson Subject: (fwd) FS: Dauphin DTR-1 computer -- forwarded message -- From: test2@pactec.net (Dave) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.swap,rec.radio.swap Subject: FS: Dauphin DTR-1 computer Date: 11 Jan 2002 09:32:23 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ FS: Dauphin DTR-1 pen/tablet computer. 486SLC processor. $50. Dave N7BHC (909) 389-1122 -- end of forwarded message -- From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri Jan 11 13:48:37 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: pinging Brian Hechinger... Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014674BA@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Is he just off on another trip? I sent him a private message the other day, about some goods for him, and haven't heard a reply yet... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From classiccmp at knm.yi.org Fri Jan 11 13:46:00 2002 From: classiccmp at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: pinging Brian Hechinger... In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014674BA@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: Hi, On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Is he just off on another trip? I sent him a private message the > other day, about some goods for him, and haven't heard a reply yet... He's waiting for his frame relay line to be installed and is without email for the moment. Hopefully not for long :&) -- Matt --- Web Page: http://knm.org.uk/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri Jan 11 13:57:22 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: pinging Brian Hechinger... Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014674BB@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Okay, thanks. Well, if anyone has another way to gat ahold of him, the VAX 4000 he's buying from us will be ready for pickup next week. Also wondering if the 2 4d/35's he offered are still available... He can call my work phone number... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Matt London [mailto:classiccmp@knm.yi.org] ! ! ! Hi, ! ! On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: ! ! > Is he just off on another trip? I sent him a private message the ! > other day, about some goods for him, and haven't heard a ! reply yet... ! ! He's waiting for his frame relay line to be installed and is ! without email ! for the moment. ! ! Hopefully not for long :&) ! ! -- Matt ! ! --- ! Web Page: ! http://knm.org.uk/ ! http://pkl.net/~matt/ ! From linc at thelinuxlink.net Fri Jan 11 16:19:09 2002 From: linc at thelinuxlink.net (Linc Fessenden) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: pinging Brian Hechinger... In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014674BA@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Is he just off on another trip? I sent him a private message the > other day, about some goods for him, and haven't heard a reply yet... > > --- David A Woyciesjes He's in the process of moving afaik. I haven't heard a thing from him in a couple weeks now, and his email bounces back to me so I am under the assumption he doesn't have his kit set up yet. Whatcha got 4 him? If I can get a hold of him I'll let him know. -Linc Fessenden In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 11 15:05:14 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: Reading PET tapes (was Re: Apple disk -> MSDOS) In-Reply-To: <01C19A5D.472DBB60@mse-d03> from "M H Stein" at Jan 11, 2 04:30:00 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 656 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020111/348d2c44/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 11 15:07:32 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: Compukit UK101 In-Reply-To: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021A12@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> from "Adrian Graham" at Jan 11, 2 09:53:00 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 645 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020111/ccd8f22d/attachment.ksh From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Jan 11 17:45:57 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: Atari games in limestone cavern Message-ID: <1010792759.1302.4.camel@fop> Odd subject I know, but sometime last year there was a story of a guy in California (ish) who had 2 million Atari 2600/7800 games in a cavern somewhere and he was selling them for $2 a pop..... Anyone got a link to him? also, anyone got a spare boxed Magnavox Oddysey they'd like to pass on to a UK computer museum? :) I'm talking money here....though donations are always welcome! -- witchy/adrian www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans Linux Powered! From menadeau at mediaone.net Fri Jan 11 17:54:00 2002 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: Atari games in limestone cavern References: <1010792759.1302.4.camel@fop> Message-ID: <023601c19afb$40b29a00$0b01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> It's O'Shea Ltd. at www.oshealtd.com. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editor/Publisher Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource www.classictechpub.com 603-893-2379 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Graham" To: Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 6:45 PM Subject: Atari games in limestone cavern > Odd subject I know, but sometime last year there was a story of a guy in > California (ish) who had 2 million Atari 2600/7800 games in a cavern > somewhere and he was selling them for $2 a pop..... > > Anyone got a link to him? > > also, anyone got a spare boxed Magnavox Oddysey they'd like to pass on > to a UK computer museum? :) I'm talking money here....though donations > are always welcome! > > -- > witchy/adrian > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans > Linux Powered! > > From rhblakeman at kih.net Fri Jan 11 18:11:43 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: Atari games in limestone cavern In-Reply-To: <1010792759.1302.4.camel@fop> Message-ID: http://www.oshealtd.com/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Adrian Graham Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 5:46 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Atari games in limestone cavern Odd subject I know, but sometime last year there was a story of a guy in California (ish) who had 2 million Atari 2600/7800 games in a cavern somewhere and he was selling them for $2 a pop..... Anyone got a link to him? also, anyone got a spare boxed Magnavox Oddysey they'd like to pass on to a UK computer museum? :) I'm talking money here....though donations are always welcome! -- witchy/adrian www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans Linux Powered! From mythtech at Mac.com Fri Jan 11 18:15:17 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: Atari games in limestone cavern Message-ID: >Odd subject I know, but sometime last year there was a story of a guy in >California (ish) who had 2 million Atari 2600/7800 games in a cavern >somewhere and he was selling them for $2 a pop..... > >Anyone got a link to him? I just threw that link out yesterday! I will try to remember when I get back to work on monday to check my web history and pull it back up (that is, if someone else doesn't offer the link before then) -chris From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 11 20:02:04 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: Atari games in limestone cavern In-Reply-To: <1010792759.1302.4.camel@fop> Message-ID: On 11 Jan 2002, Adrian Graham wrote: > Odd subject I know, but sometime last year there was a story of a guy > in California (ish) who had 2 million Atari 2600/7800 games in a > cavern somewhere and he was selling them for $2 a pop..... If you consider California part of "America's Heartland" then the place where these are stored could be considered California (ish). O'Shea Limited http://www.oshealtd.com/ (Amazing what a quick web search can come up with, eh?) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mranalog at attbi.com Fri Jan 11 19:24:34 2002 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: Musicians (and computer music) Message-ID: <3C3F9052.40E29A3D@attbi.com> M H Stein > Don't I recall correctly that someone (Jay?) tracked him down > in Korea, but that he was going to be back soon? I said that when I talked to Hal Chamberlin in 1999 he was in Korea. When I talked to him last weekend he did not mention where he was, but I don't think he's still in Korea. Someone on the list is currently working on getting more information on the HAL-4096. That information should available soon. > Maybe he's got something to contribute to posterity when he gets > back from Korea. I thought he already had. Regards, --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog Analogrechner, calculateur analogique, calcolatore analogico, analoogrekenaar, komputer analogowy, analog bilgisayar, kampiutere ghiyasi, analoge computer. ========================================= From tarsi at binhost.com Fri Jan 11 16:42:57 2002 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: DPC Interface Inquiry Message-ID: <0201111642570P.00215@simon> Got a good one, folks. A friend of mine is trying to use a Spur U.S.A.-1/DPC(7U) box. Spur U.S.A being the model and DPC being sub-model. I guess he knows that U.S.A. stands for Universal Subsystem Adaptor and DPC stands for Data Products C????. It takes input from a 50-pin amp connector and outputs to an IBM Channel Bus & Tag. He knows what the box does and has a Bus & Tag box to use it with, but can't figure out what DPC is or where to find the 50-pin amp connector or the pinouts for it. Anyone help out? Thanks! Tarsi 210 -- ---------------------------------------------- Homepage: http://tarsi.binhost.com binHOST.com: http://www.binhost.com Forever Beyond: http://www.foreverbeyond.org ---------------------------------------------- From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jan 11 16:34:09 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: eMag Solutions LLC announces end of life plan for open reel ( 9-track) tape Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225CE9@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Aw Geeze.... is this really the end? I would go nuts if I couldn't get 9 > track mag tapes anymore. Pretty much everything in my collection depends on > it. The note says emag is the last manufacturer. Is that in the US, or in > the world? I'm wondering if they will still be available for purchase, but > will originate from overseas manufacturers. I had posted disbelief about this in alt.sys.pdp10... I'd not heard of eMag, but if eMag is EMTEC Magnetics GmbH, then that's BASF! They didn't quite invent magnetic tape, but they claim to have been the first to have commercial success with it. If BASF is abandoning 9-track magtape, then I fear it's true, the end is near... Don Lancaster (yes, *the* Don lancaster) is selling new reels on E-Bay on a regular basis... bought two reels last year. So, I'll be stocking up on new and used tapes, for sure... -dq From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 11 15:16:28 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: What exactly is a MINC-11, and does anyone need one? In-Reply-To: <3C3EE3E1.B96C9574@tds.net> from "Jon Auringer" at Jan 11, 2 07:08:49 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2319 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020111/b2eb626c/attachment.ksh From auringer at tds.net Fri Jan 11 19:06:56 2002 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: What exactly is a MINC-11, and does anyone need one? References: Message-ID: <3C3F8C30.DE027482@tds.net> Hello again, > > Another item I keep forgetting about is a digital MINC-11. I actually had time to go check this box out and here is what I found. It is set up like Tony and Jerome said. Here are the cards in the MINC: M8012-YA Q-BUS TERMINATOR MNCAD A/D converter MNCKW Clock M8043 DEC DLV11-J Four-Line Asynchronous Serial Interface M8659 VT71 BUS GRANT BRD M8659 VT71 BUS GRANT BRD M7954 INTERFACE LSI11 BUS TO INST. M8029 RXV21, Q-BUS RX02 INTERFACE M8044DB MSV11-Dx (M8044-Dx) 4KW-32KW w/o parity M7270 DEC KD11-HA LSI-11/2 CPU I checked the voltage stuff. The MINC has a switch with a flip plate for 120V. No problem there. The RX02 does not have any provision for switching voltages/frequency as Tony points out. This makes me wonder even more about how this thing made it to Madison WI. We may never know. :) Anybody want to pay shipping to a country where the RX02 drives could be used? :O Thanks for the info. Later, Jon From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 11 17:18:26 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: What exactly is a MINC-11, and does anyone need one? In-Reply-To: from "Tom Leffingwell" at Jan 11, 2 10:06:49 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 465 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020111/ab9857d8/attachment.ksh From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Jan 11 19:59:26 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: 5 inch CRT available Message-ID: <116.a854430.2970f27e@aol.com> clearing more goodies out. such much faster and easier than epay, that's for sure. motorola 5inch display in a small cage with electronics like flyback, etc. has connector on back for interfacing. from a xeroxed paper that's in the box, it says standard CGA resolution and gives pinouts. label sez mod #MD1000-390a. from 1986 and is unused. make an offer which will allow me serveral steak burritos at taco bell and its yours. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jan 11 15:10:49 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225CE8@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Have a look at this comic strip... (Wednesday's strip) It's looking pretty certain that the Twentieth Anniversary Mac will be youngest Macintosh that will *ever* be in my collection... Lampintosh? Easily-Broken-In-Two-In-Tosh? Smackintosh? (what I want to do to it) -dq From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Jan 11 16:53:43 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:30 2005 Subject: Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > It's looking pretty certain that the Twentieth > Anniversary Mac will be youngest Macintosh that > will *ever* be in my collection... > > Lampintosh? > > Easily-Broken-In-Two-In-Tosh? > > Smackintosh? (what I want to do to it) Well, first we had MacOS X, the revamp of NeXTstep. Then we had the G4 Cube, an obvious though modernized callback to the NeXT Cube design. Now it's like they've tried to create something that's entirely non-NeXT, at least asthetically. Basing the design on a white sphere places it completely opposite the black cube of the NeXT. So I'd call it the notaNeXTintosh, or maybe the anti-NeXT. I think it's a moderately ugly design, but I asked my employer to get me one as I'm curious (though I'm not curious enough to get one for home). They're happy to oblige, so I'll get a chance to see how durably the critter is constructed. It does seem like it'd be likely to get broken. -brian. From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jan 11 17:10:12 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) In-Reply-To: Re: Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) (Brian Chase) References: Message-ID: <15423.28884.694145.979406@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 11, Brian Chase wrote: > I think it's a moderately ugly design, but I asked my employer to get > me one as I'm curious (though I'm not curious enough to get one for > home). They're happy to oblige, so I'll get a chance to see how durably > the critter is constructed. It does seem like it'd be likely to get > broken. I'm all for quality construction, but this makes me want to ask...just how rough ARE you with your computers? 8| -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 11 19:56:46 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > Well, first we had MacOS X, the revamp of NeXTstep. Then we had the > G4 Cube, an obvious though modernized callback to the NeXT Cube > design. Now it's like they've tried to create something that's > entirely non-NeXT, at least asthetically. Basing the design on a > white sphere places it completely opposite the black cube of the NeXT. The new iMac is nothing new for Apple. In actuality, this is the final realization of Jobs' product vision. There's a book that Apple put out in the late 80s called something like "The First Ten Years" that shows all sorts of prototype designs that were way too radical for the consumer back then. The new Mac looks like it came right out of that book. > I think it's a moderately ugly design, but I asked my employer to get > me one as I'm curious (though I'm not curious enough to get one for > home). They're happy to oblige, so I'll get a chance to see how > durably the critter is constructed. It does seem like it'd be likely > to get broken. I think it's incredibly bitchin' (as is/was the G4 Cube) and I can't wait til they start showing up in thrift stores in ten years :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rhblakeman at kih.net Fri Jan 11 17:13:10 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225CE8@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: Crackintosh (what my first one did when I tossed it from the back of a moving pickup) -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Douglas Quebbeman Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 3:11 PM To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Subject: Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) > Have a look at this comic strip... (Wednesday's strip) It's looking pretty certain that the Twentieth Anniversary Mac will be youngest Macintosh that will *ever* be in my collection... Lampintosh? Easily-Broken-In-Two-In-Tosh? Smackintosh? (what I want to do to it) -dq From mythtech at Mac.com Fri Jan 11 18:03:20 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) Message-ID: >maybe the anti-NeXT. The "Before"? >I think it's a moderately ugly design, but I asked my employer to get >me one as I'm curious (though I'm not curious enough to get one for >home). They're happy to oblige, so I'll get a chance to see how durably >the critter is constructed. It does seem like it'd be likely to get >broken. I don't think it will be any more prone to breakage than any other LCD display. The base should be just as durable as any other computer, and the swing arm should be no less fragile than the thousands of lamps that have a similar arm on them. If anything, I would think it is MORE durable than many computers, being that apple has done a good job making very durable iBooks. BUT... like all LCD display's, that portion will be prone to cracking if abused. That shouldn't be much of a problem for the standard home user, but for the K-12 market... I have never thought an LCD display (of any kind, from any maker) was a smart idea. Good old heavy glass CRTs take a much better licking than LCD could ever hope to (in testing, it took me a number of swings with the base of a rolling chair to break thru the glass of a VGA monitor, but my laptop LCD cracked with only mild weight placed on it when I stepped on it) In the long run, it is probably unlikely that too many people from this list will "get it" with the new iMac. The reason being is, the new design is going after the market of people that want a computer to fit around their life style. So they are trying to go after the "its furniture" market. The nature of most of the people on THIS list are ones that like a computer to BE a computer... a nice traditional, boxy, blinking light, noisy COMPUTER. Apple has been moving farther and farther away from that kind of market. This list is full of people who's life works around the computer, and apple wants the market where the computer works around life. I mean really, the target market for the new iMac is certainly not a group of people that tend to rent storage garages just to store their extra PDPs (You aren't going to get a new iMac user group where the people discuss staying warm in their storage shed by sitting on top of a mini while writing code on an old portable and its 5" screen!) -chris From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Jan 11 18:46:27 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Chris wrote: > In the long run, it is probably unlikely that too many people from this > list will "get it" with the new iMac. The reason being is, the new design > is going after the market of people that want a computer to fit around > their life style. So they are trying to go after the "its furniture" > market. The nature of most of the people on THIS list are ones that like > a computer to BE a computer... [...] Not true, I've got a functional MicroVAX-II and a MicroVAX 3600 both in service as end tables. I like where Apple is going, and I'm glad to see them as strong as they are. Mostly I'm happy that what NeXT could have been is actually happening through their absorbtion into Apple. Or maybe this could be viewed as Apple coming back to where it should've been before they forced out Steve Jobs-- resulting in the creation of the NeXT? Still, I think Jobs needed to learn a few things through that process before he could come back to Apple and help. -brian. From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jan 11 19:57:45 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Or maybe this could be viewed as Apple coming back to where it should've >been before they forced out Steve Jobs-- resulting in the creation of >the NeXT? Still, I think Jobs needed to learn a few things through that >process before he could come back to Apple and help. Obviously NeXT is having an influence on what Apple is doing at the moment but I think the above statement is closer to what is happening. Look at what happened to Apple after they foreced Jobs out. They lost all direction and their product line became a confusing mess, not to mention the quality went down hill as well. The best thing to come out of that era was the move to the PPC architecture. Apple was in very deep trouble by the time Jobs was brought back on board. He may not be perfect but he has a vision and he's bent on pursuing it. As for the new iMac, I think that, like the original iMac, it's meant to demystify computers for those that have no interest in them for the most part and who don't want a plain beige box taking up space. Like it or not, it's hard to ignore and it does make a statement. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jan 11 20:15:58 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225CE8@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> from Douglas Quebbeman at "Jan 11, 2 04:10:49 pm" Message-ID: <200201120215.SAA27814@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > It's looking pretty certain that the Twentieth > Anniversary Mac will be youngest Macintosh that > will *ever* be in my collection... > > Lampintosh? > Easily-Broken-In-Two-In-Tosh? > Smackintosh? (what I want to do to it) > I know, I know, if it's not fifteen feet tall, doesn't dim all the lights in the neighbourhood, and looks good with the sofa, it's not a computer. :-P I like the idea, and I like the hardware. Of course, money is a little tight these days, but as far as I'm concerned that's a great deal on a fast, space-saving G4. I just wish it had *a* PCI or AGP slot of some kind. I was initially sceptical, but after consideration it seems the iMac's logical next step. Gimme. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- God made the integers; all else is the work of Man. -- Kronecker ----------- From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Fri Jan 11 20:07:02 2002 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Atari games in limestone cavern In-Reply-To: <1010792759.1302.4.camel@fop> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020111210400.00aa4b80@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 11:45 PM 1/11/02 +0000, you wrote: >Odd subject I know, but sometime last year there was a story of a guy in >California (ish) who had 2 million Atari 2600/7800 games in a cavern >somewhere and he was selling them for $2 a pop..... Don't have that one but I do have a web site where I sell 2600 cartridges in quantity for less than $2 each. Atari 2600 Games $3 each (4 for $10) (12 for $25) (30 for $50) plus shipping 10 of my choice for $10 plus shipping. The link is as follows: http://www.users.voicenet.com/~generic/video4.html ================================= Gene Ehrich gene@ehrich.com gehrich@tampabay.rr.com From out2sea00 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 11 20:18:35 2002 From: out2sea00 at yahoo.com (Colin Eby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: IBM System/34... Message-ID: <20020112021835.41781.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com> < ... I need to get my hands on disk images of the microcode, SSP, and RPG II diskettes for an IBM S/34.... > Daniel -- >:-0 What a horror story. If I can be of help please let me know. I have no idea about the operating condition of the 5362 arriving next week. If it runs maybe I will be able to do a bit of data recovery through a 5152 emulation. But I don't have any docs at all so I haven't a clue how to hack the login and recover any OS still extant on the system. If you have docs or suggestions to that end, please share them. Thanks, Colin Eby Senior Consultant CSC Consulting __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From tom at sba.miami.edu Fri Jan 11 20:20:07 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: AT&T 3b2 and 3b5 docs seek good home In-Reply-To: <3C3F9052.40E29A3D@attbi.com> Message-ID: I have a nearly complete set of them, which occupy about 3 healthy boxes. If anyone is interested, I can make a list. I would be interested in possible trade for PDP-11 Q-bus equipment. Its also somewhat possible that I may still have an actual 3b2, but will have to check further. -Tom From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 11 19:59:11 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: OT: Hate to belabour the point... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ...but today's San Jose Mercury News has a very timely article on how Dell's customer support sucks big elephant testicles. Customer Service: Friend or Foe? http://www0.mercurycenter.com/business/top/004841.htm Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rhblakeman at kih.net Fri Jan 11 20:24:16 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: 5 inch CRT available In-Reply-To: <116.a854430.2970f27e@aol.com> Message-ID: Dave you must be a huge guy - you talk about Taco Bell like you lived there :-) -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of SUPRDAVE@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 7:59 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: 5 inch CRT available clearing more goodies out. such much faster and easier than epay, that's for sure. motorola 5inch display in a small cage with electronics like flyback, etc. has connector on back for interfacing. from a xeroxed paper that's in the box, it says standard CGA resolution and gives pinouts. label sez mod #MD1000-390a. from 1986 and is unused. make an offer which will allow me serveral steak burritos at taco bell and its yours. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From rhblakeman at kih.net Fri Jan 11 20:41:23 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Atari games in limestone cavern In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020111210400.00aa4b80@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: When I got rid of the last of my 2600/7800 carts I sold 25 of them for 10 bucks - we were totally bored with them after playing for many years. It's all in how bad the seller wants to get rid of them. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Gene Ehrich Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 8:07 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Atari games in limestone cavern At 11:45 PM 1/11/02 +0000, you wrote: >Odd subject I know, but sometime last year there was a story of a guy in >California (ish) who had 2 million Atari 2600/7800 games in a cavern >somewhere and he was selling them for $2 a pop..... Don't have that one but I do have a web site where I sell 2600 cartridges in quantity for less than $2 each. Atari 2600 Games $3 each (4 for $10) (12 for $25) (30 for $50) plus shipping 10 of my choice for $10 plus shipping. The link is as follows: http://www.users.voicenet.com/~generic/video4.html ================================= Gene Ehrich gene@ehrich.com gehrich@tampabay.rr.com From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Jan 11 21:13:02 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: IBM System/34... Message-ID: In a message dated 1/11/2002 9:24:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, out2sea00@yahoo.com writes: << >:-0 What a horror story. If I can be of help please let me know. I have no idea about the operating condition of the 5362 arriving next week. If it runs maybe I will be able to do a bit of data recovery through a 5152 emulation. But I don't have any docs at all so I haven't a clue how to hack the login and recover any OS still extant on the system. If you have docs or suggestions to that end, please share them. >> someone in alt.folklore.computers emailed me the instructions on how to crack the login passwoid. i'll see where I put that document. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Jan 11 21:18:11 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Atari games in limestone cavern Message-ID: <156.7217b8d.297104f3@aol.com> In a message dated 1/11/2002 9:47:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, rhblakeman@kih.net writes: << When I got rid of the last of my 2600/7800 carts I sold 25 of them for 10 bucks - we were totally bored with them after playing for many years. It's all in how bad the seller wants to get rid of them. >> depends. carts like combat and football and all those boring atari ones are pennies a dozen. the better ones from activision are more of course, river raid was the best. now, where did i put my atari 2600 power supply..... -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From tosteve at yahoo.com Fri Jan 11 21:20:36 2002 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Atari games in limestone cavern In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020112032036.979.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> This may be the Atari-in-the-cave guy: http://www.oshealtd.com Also - T-shirts, action figures, cheap electronics! Steve. --- Chris wrote: > >Odd subject I know, but sometime last year there > was a story of a guy in > >California (ish) who had 2 million Atari 2600/7800 > games in a cavern > >somewhere and he was selling them for $2 a pop..... > > > >Anyone got a link to him? > > I just threw that link out yesterday! > > I will try to remember when I get back to work on > monday to check my web > history and pull it back up (that is, if someone > else doesn't offer the > link before then) > > -chris > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 11 22:07:59 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > As for the new iMac, I think that, like the original iMac, it's meant > to demystify computers for those that have no interest in them for the > most part and who don't want a plain beige box taking up space. Like > it or not, it's hard to ignore and it does make a statement. While there is probably an element of "demystifying" the computer for average schlubs, I think the design is more of Jobs' influence at play. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jan 11 22:04:58 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Atari games in limestone cavern In-Reply-To: <156.7217b8d.297104f3@aol.com> References: <156.7217b8d.297104f3@aol.com> Message-ID: >depends. carts like combat and football and all those boring atari ones are >pennies a dozen. the better ones from activision are more of course, river >raid was the best. now, where did i put my atari 2600 power supply..... A number of years ago I aquired an in-house/pre-release 'River Raid' for the Atari 800. Unfortunately the cart crashes shortly after it begins loading. I've got a couple of oddball carts for the 2600 though, including 'Revenge of the Beefsteak Tomatoes', 'Journey Escape' and a proto for 'Asterix'. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From vaxman at earthlink.net Fri Jan 11 22:50:46 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Looking for VMS 5.5-1 CDROM Message-ID: Anybody got one? TK50 would work too, but I'd prefer CDROM.... Contact me off-list, and we can discuss what I'll trade for it... Clint From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jan 11 23:07:03 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Looking for VMS 5.5-1 CDROM In-Reply-To: from "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" at Jan 11, 2002 09:50:46 PM Message-ID: <200201120507.g0C573Q22335@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Anybody got one? TK50 would work too, but I'd prefer CDROM.... > > Contact me off-list, and we can discuss what I'll trade for it... V5.5-1 to run, or for a collection? If you want to run V5.5-1, consider that V5.5-2 would be a better choice. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 11 22:59:05 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Atari games in limestone cavern In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > A number of years ago I aquired an in-house/pre-release 'River > Raid' for the Atari 800. Unfortunately the cart crashes shortly after > it begins loading. I've got a couple of oddball carts for the 2600 > though, including 'Revenge of the Beefsteak Tomatoes', 'Journey > Escape' and a proto for 'Asterix'. The protos and "Beefsteak" are definitely keepers. Or you can give them to me for my next birthday ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Jan 11 23:02:54 2002 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: What exactly is a MINC-11, and does anyone need one? References: <200201111627.g0BGRjf11280@bg-tc-ppp1367.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <3C3FC37E.981CBD68@idirect.com> >Bill Pechter wrote: > I wish I had one, but I'm too far away and the wife wants me to clean up > the pile of stuff I've got at present. You too! Sigh... Of course, I want to clean up even more since I can't find the stuff I want. But it is more fun to reply to an e-mail. From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Jan 12 00:02:38 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: OT: Hate to belabour the point... In-Reply-To: OT: Hate to belabour the point... (Sellam Ismail) References: Message-ID: <15423.53630.134193.455003@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 11, Sellam Ismail wrote: > ...but today's San Jose Mercury News has a very timely article on how > Dell's customer support sucks big elephant testicles. Are there such things as *small* elephant testicles? -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sat Jan 12 00:43:14 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available References: <3C3DADAA.E14C85B@tds.net> Message-ID: <3C3FDB02.6090004@aurora.regenstrief.org> Jon, am I too late asking if I could have the one 11/780? Please drop me a note. -Gunther Jon Auringer wrote: > Mark Tapley wrote: > > >>You are probably way ahead of me on this, but tapes of the O/S's and other >>hardware, where available, might be well appreciated by the machines' >>ultimate owners - or owners of similar machines. >> > > All of the system software is being preserved. The tapes I was referring > to are the hundreds of backup tapes that line the walls of the computer > rooms (and elsewhere!). > > >>Good luck and thanks very much for all your work! >> > > Thanks for the thought. It has been a bit of a headache. > > >>Are there any NeXT or Digital Group (not DEC) or Balcones Microcomputer >>systems there? Long shots, I know, but thought I'd ask. >> > > None of those, sorry. > > Later, > Jon > -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Jan 12 01:53:29 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3C3F9719.29725.2A7507C0@localhost> I haven't seen the thing. I passed on the original URL but I like it already. Anything relating to the NEXT I like. Go, Jobs, go. but put a fdd or some entry device on it, and maybe a silent fan. Hmm, hope I'm around long enough for it to show up in thrift shops. Baah of course I will. Old computer collectors don't die, they just get outmoded. Lawrence > On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > > > Well, first we had MacOS X, the revamp of NeXTstep. Then we had the > > G4 Cube, an obvious though modernized callback to the NeXT Cube > > design. Now it's like they've tried to create something that's > > entirely non-NeXT, at least asthetically. Basing the design on a > > white sphere places it completely opposite the black cube of the NeXT. > > The new iMac is nothing new for Apple. In actuality, this is the final > realization of Jobs' product vision. There's a book that Apple put out in > the late 80s called something like "The First Ten Years" that shows all > sorts of prototype designs that were way too radical for the consumer back > then. The new Mac looks like it came right out of that book. > > > I think it's a moderately ugly design, but I asked my employer to get > > me one as I'm curious (though I'm not curious enough to get one for > > home). They're happy to oblige, so I'll get a chance to see how > > durably the critter is constructed. It does seem like it'd be likely > > to get broken. > > I think it's incredibly bitchin' (as is/was the G4 Cube) and I can't wait > til they start showing up in thrift stores in ten years :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From curt at atari-history.com Sat Jan 12 05:38:21 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Atari games in limestone cavern References: <1010792759.1302.4.camel@fop> Message-ID: <006401c19b5d$a4e995c0$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Your talking about Bill Houlihan who runs Osheas: www.classicatari.com Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Graham" To: Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 6:45 PM Subject: Atari games in limestone cavern > Odd subject I know, but sometime last year there was a story of a guy in > California (ish) who had 2 million Atari 2600/7800 games in a cavern > somewhere and he was selling them for $2 a pop..... > > Anyone got a link to him? > > also, anyone got a spare boxed Magnavox Oddysey they'd like to pass on > to a UK computer museum? :) I'm talking money here....though donations > are always welcome! > > -- > witchy/adrian > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans > Linux Powered! > From dankolb at ox.compsoc.net Sat Jan 12 06:21:13 2002 From: dankolb at ox.compsoc.net (Dan Kolb) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: OT: Hate to belabour the point... In-Reply-To: <15423.53630.134193.455003@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <15423.53630.134193.455003@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday 12 Jan 2002 06:02 am, Dave McGuire wrote: > On January 11, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > ...but today's San Jose Mercury News has a very timely article on how > > Dell's customer support sucks big elephant testicles. > > Are there such things as *small* elephant testicles? Yeah - on small elephants ;-) (sorry) Dan - -- dankolb@ox.compsoc.net - --I reserve the right to be completely wrong about any comments or opinions expressed; don't trust everything you read above-- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 6.5.8 iQA/AwUBPEAqO5dDUnce+EgsEQIzjwCffPjCHf+XDqBJcu0q8fngX6fvQvIAnjvy DaaPxlntVFstsLlG6z1cTAWp =eQQu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rhblakeman at kih.net Sat Jan 12 06:58:05 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The design isn't all that bad but that translucent plastic is ignorant in my opinion - like the see through phones - who wants to see the guts of machines and electronics, especially if there's nothing moving to be able to see? When I was able to pick up a Handspring PDA I passed on the translucent colors and went with the "graphite" that I feel is much more suitable. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 10:08 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > As for the new iMac, I think that, like the original iMac, it's meant > to demystify computers for those that have no interest in them for the > most part and who don't want a plain beige box taking up space. Like > it or not, it's hard to ignore and it does make a statement. While there is probably an element of "demystifying" the computer for average schlubs, I think the design is more of Jobs' influence at play. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From allain at panix.com Sat Jan 12 09:33:19 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) References: Message-ID: <002601c19b7e$76fc10e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > The design isn't all that bad but that translucent plastic is ignorant > in my opinion - like the see through phones - who wants to see the > guts of machines and electronics, Well, if classiccmpers aren't going for it, who will? It may be a reverse thing, that people who Can't Possibly open a machine themselves need to pay extra to be able to see it. On the translucent thing, theres an artist that is selling a mass of wires in a blob of epoxy as a 'cellphone' for $3500. Seemed like a neat idea until it was revealed that the electronics were nothing but a digital clock. http://store.yahoo.com/whitneystore/telephonex.html http://store3.yimg.com/I/whitneystore_1658_211315 John A. From rhblakeman at kih.net Sat Jan 12 10:40:01 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) In-Reply-To: <002601c19b7e$76fc10e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: You can embed things into resin with PlasticCast - Hobby Lobby sells it. I wonder how the buyer plans on changing the battery inside the embedded clock circuti when it goes out? -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Allain Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 9:33 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) > The design isn't all that bad but that translucent plastic is ignorant > in my opinion - like the see through phones - who wants to see the > guts of machines and electronics, Well, if classiccmpers aren't going for it, who will? It may be a reverse thing, that people who Can't Possibly open a machine themselves need to pay extra to be able to see it. On the translucent thing, theres an artist that is selling a mass of wires in a blob of epoxy as a 'cellphone' for $3500. Seemed like a neat idea until it was revealed that the electronics were nothing but a digital clock. http://store.yahoo.com/whitneystore/telephonex.html http://store3.yimg.com/I/whitneystore_1658_211315 John A. From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Jan 12 08:21:33 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: quest for pictures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020112090557.02ab9108@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) may have mentioned these words: [Mach-2-Flyby camera snippage] > > equivalent I think (4000 * 3000 or so). And I'm not 'upgrading' to a > > digital camera if the resolution goes down... I put quality well above > > convenience in use, even if few others do. I'm with you WRT this way of thinking, Tony, but for those of us who don't have darkrooms, the reproducibility of digital is quite nice... I was taking pictures on Christmas day, printing 3 copies of each picture that the family wanted on my QMS color laser printer (which don't look as good as my Epson photo, but it's not set up currently) and they're also archived on CD and in my safety deposit box. I'll admit that they didn't look perfect [color laser != photo proofing studio] , but if a fire hits my home, I still have the memories. I can't say that WRT all of my pictures of Germany when I was there in '91. I'm working on scanning all of my pictures, tho. >There are uses for both. There are some situations appropriate for each. >For example: low res, TEMPORARY pictures, for web or email can be done >more conveniently with a digital. But I'm NOT about to get rid of my old >35mm cameras and lenses, nor medium, nor large format cameras. ... And you'll have to pry my Canon T50 from my cold, dead hands, too. But with the purchase of my new house, the ability to go in and archive everything visually myself without needing 40 rolls of film, and be able to take pictures during my renovation & archive to CD will probably justify 1/2 the cost of the camera. With 5 Megapixels, 2 memory sticks & 2 batteries, I can archive a lot more information in 1/10 the time by myself than watching Wal-Mart fsck up 1/2 my film - and yes, the point I've not seen on the Megapixel versus film quality didn't take into account urine-quality developing. [We don't have a decent film lab here - Wal-Mart, K-Mart or jump the bridge to Canada, which gets expensive...] I've never seen better than 5 Megapixel photo quality come from any roll of film of mine from Wal-mart. This is not a slam on the film, or the camera... That's allz I know... Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an *older* .sig. (circa 1997!) Why does Hershey's put nutritional information on their candy bar wrappers when there's no nutritional value within? From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jan 12 09:06:55 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Atari games in limestone cavern In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >> A number of years ago I aquired an in-house/pre-release 'River >> Raid' for the Atari 800. Unfortunately the cart crashes shortly after >> it begins loading. I've got a couple of oddball carts for the 2600 >> though, including 'Revenge of the Beefsteak Tomatoes', 'Journey >> Escape' and a proto for 'Asterix'. > >The protos and "Beefsteak" are definitely keepers. Or you can give them >to me for my next birthday ;) The protos were gotten from JerryG when he decided to liquidate his collection a few years ago. The 'Asterix' proto was a bare board when he aquired it and he had put it into a cartridge with one of his labels while the 'River Raid' has a red/white typewritten label from Activision. Given the his reputation at the time he decided to sell all of his stock, I feel pretty confident that they are what he claimed. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From Bernd.Kopriva at t-online.de Sat Jan 12 11:47:34 2002 From: Bernd.Kopriva at t-online.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Looking for Software/Documentation for a Definicon 68020 board (and / or another Definicon baord) Message-ID: <16PSGK-19JiQiC@fwd10.sul.t-online.com> Hi, some months ago, i got a Definicon 68020 co-processor board without any software and documentation. Paul Santa-Maria send me some software, but i did not manage to get the board working ... ... maybe the software was not the correct one or the board is defect. As i'm really interested in getting the board running, i'm asking again for any software / documentation. Maybe someone can offer me another board (i'm especially interested in the NS32032 board as well) at a reasonable price. Thanks Bernd Bernd Kopriva Phone: ++49-7195-179452 Weilerstr. 24 E-Mail: bernd@kopriva.de D-71397 Leutenbach Germany From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Sat Jan 12 12:48:18 2002 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: 3com 3station Message-ID: <20020112.125138.-450237.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:21:25 -0500 (EST) Pat Finnegan writes: > By looking at mine, I can tell it uses a VGA monitor, and has 1M of > RAM (upgradable to 5M with SIMMs I have laying around here). Oh yeah, > it looks to be a 20MHz 80286 also. Yeah, that's the later version. I seem to recall that they didn't make too many of those. . . . > > I still have a copy of 3+Share (and 3+Start) around here > > someplace . . . > > That would be nice if you could find it. However, I won't hold my > breath for it. After attempting to hook an old floppy drive up to it's > 34pin connector, I realized it was definately designed for something else > (one orientation froze the box, the other shorted out the power supply > :-( ) Yow! DOes the thing still light up? I never did fighre out what that connector was for. > I'll take that into consideration. Thanks for the help! Sure. Mebbe I'll have to dredge up my copy of 3+Share . . . Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Jan 12 13:22:39 2002 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Adaptec 1502 - SCSI Hard Drive Question References: <3C3DD94C.5200BCF5@idirect.com> <3C3E746A.227403F8@idirect.com> <004801c19abb$2cf99300$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3C408CFF.2FEB95EC@idirect.com> >Richard Erlacher wrote: > >From: "Jerome Fine" > >To: > >Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:13 PM > >Subject: Adaptec 1502 - SCSI Hard Drive Question > > Much as I hate to admit I am using W95 on a Pentium 166 MMX, it > > is really to run E11 and run RT-11. > > Included, I have an Iomega SCSI Insider (100 MByte Zip drive) which > > came with a (wonder of wonders) Adaptec 1502 SCSI host adapter > > (at least I think that was the Adaptec number - it is inside the guts of > > the motherboard and I can pull it to check if absolutely necessary). > The first thing I'd suspect as a source of trouble is the IOMEGA product. I > have one or more of nearly every IOMEGA removable media drive that they ever > produced, and not a single one has ever worked as advertised. Jerome Fine replies: Well, I am not saying that the files I received with the Iomega Zip drive don't work with that drive - in actual fact over the last 3 years they have worked extremely well in the W95 environment I use them with. In particular, with the Zip drive, I can access all three RT-11 partitions under E11, but on an actual real PDP-11 with a CQD 220/TM, for some reason, I can see only the first two. This is no longer a problem since I now also have the Sony drives on both the PC and the PDP-11. Since each MO disk has 8.75 RT-11 partitions on each side (that both the PC and the PDP-11 can see at all times - although the write speed of the MO disks is a bit slow), I use the MO when I want to transfer anything. However, based on your appraisal of Iomega software, I would, at the very least say that the Iomega programs are able to handle ONLY what they are designed for and very little more. So it is very pleasing that the Iomega device drivers and other stuff can even handle the Sony SMO S-501 drives correctly. The fact that I must fool the Iomega programs to see the SCSI hard drives is, I guess, fortunate to say the least. BUT, at least I have found it can be done. By the way, if you are able to read this whole reply, I will sprinkle my actual questions all the way through. Normally, I run with the Zip drive off (99% of the time - I just hardly use it any more and if when I migrate to the new PC I must leave it behind, I will only have to transfer about a dozen Zip 100 MByte disks to the Sony MO disks to carry everything along - but it would be nice to have the Zip for the ability to share files with others who still have that media with RT-11 software - probably less than 5 people). The Sony drives are OFF 90% of the time and ON only when they are being used - at boot time naturally and when I want to save files from a RAM disk, i.e. when I run RT-11 under E11, I can MOUNT DU2: SCSI2: to bring on-line for E11 (and RT-11) the Sony drive at SCSI2:, but I can also MOUNT DU7: RAM:/SIZE:33554432 which is where I work from all of the time, i.e. I run E11 with the Sony drives OFF and only turn them ON about once every 2 hours when I have a newer version of the program that I want to save. QUESTION: In your opinion, which does less damage - turning the Sony drives on for 5 minutes every two hours or leaving them on all of the time while I am working on RT-11 for an average of 6 hours for each RT-11 session? i.e. leave the Sony drives ON for about 6 hours or turn them on 4 times for 5 minutes each when they are actually being used? Anyone else have an opinion on how an external drive with its own power supply is best used - keep it on for 6 hours or only on for 4 sessions of 5 minutes each? > BTW, if you're booting from the SCSI chain, the controller is absolutely not > an AHA 1510, since that's a ROM-less version. Apology - my son #3 just returned his borrowed version of the host adapter (I only needed one of the two I had) and it is a 1502 - specifically AVA 1502 | SB (there was a vertical bar after the two - not a one) 984700 D 9745 with a serial number of BG0C7452C0H Made in Singapore By the way, I have "fixed" all the other incorrect references to 1510 and changed them to 1502 except in this section. > > Now, wonder of wonders, not only does the 1502 and the Iomega > > APSI device drivers support the Zip drive, but I can also connect > > the Sony SMO S-501 as well. In fact, at one point, I had 3 of the > > Sony magneto optical drives (SCSI ID 0,1,2 and the Zip at ID 6) > > all running on the 1502 and of course recognizing all four SCSI > > units at boot time (along with a C: drive and an IDE CD-ROM > > drive) for a total of 8 drives: A: (3.5" floppy) B: (5 1/4" floppy) > > C:, D:, E:, F:, G: (Zip) and H: (CD-ROM). > > About half the time I boot without the Sony drives and the ZIP drive > > and the Iomega device driver complains there are no SCSI IDs, and > > I just press any character to continue. > You may find you have better luck with the ADAPTEC drivers rather than the > IOMEGA verson. I have used both ZIP and JAZ drives with IOMEGA's drivers, and > they've never worked satisfactorily. OK - now can you e-mail me the ADAPTEC drivers that I should be using? No support obligations on your part - I will first try them with a backup ESDI hard drive and see if I can still do everything I can do now with the Zip drive, but still be able to use the SCSI hard drives without first having to have either the Sony or the SCSI drives powered on when I boot W95. I currently have the Adaptec host adapters: AHA-2940AU 984300-01 B 9706 which I presume is an ISA and AHA-1535A 947000-01 C 9637 which I presume is PCI I just realized that perhaps even the original 1502 may also be OK, but the only problem is the Iomega device drivers. So if it is best that I continue with the 1502, that will be OK since the new motherboard for the Pentium III 800 has ISA and PCI slots. But if I can't boot a SCSI drive with the 1502 and I can do so with either the 2940AU or the 1535A, that would probably be a valuable addition in return for not being able to use the Zip drive - or at the very least not being able to easily WRITE PROTECT the media as I can do now - just right click on the Zip drive in Explorer and select the correct item in the menu. > > On occasion, I want to use a SCSI hard drive (currently I have both > > a ST11200N and a ST32550N) instead of the Sony drives (I hardly > > ever use the Zip drive - it is normally cabled to the 50-pin cable but > > not powered on). When that happens, i.e. want to use the Seagate > > drives, I find it necessary to FIRST boot W95 with the Sony drive > > powered on at the same SCSI ID I will be using for the Seagate > > drive. Then I power down all the Sony drives, disconnect them ALL > > from the end of the cable (a 50 pin external centronics connector > > since the Sony drives are external boxes) and power up (sometimes > > all three) the Seagate drives, i.e. I can't seem to keep both the > > Seagate drives and the Sony drives powered up on the SCSI cable > > at the same time. > Now, how many devices? At which addresses? It doesn't matter, of course, > which addresses you use, unless you want to boot from one of these devices. > If it's to be a bootable drive, it will have to be at ID=0 or ID=1. A bootable drive would be great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But how would I boot? I normally run the Zip at SCSI ID=6 and would never boot from it in any case. The three Sony drives are run at SCSI ID=0,1,2 I see on the 1502 there is a J21 with 5 pairs of jumpers - I have no idea how mine is set. On the 2940, I can't see any way to set up the CSR address. On the 1535A, I see an S1 with 4 dip switches. I find the throughput on the 1502 quite satisfactory. When I use the ST 32550N SCSI hard drive, I can read or write a 32 MByte RT-11 partition in about 30 seconds or less as compared with the same 32 MBytes on the Sony and taking about 250 seconds to read and about 500 seconds to write. But since I do all 32 MBytes rarely, I don't consider it a problem. Most of the time, I am writing only the source and listing files at one time - less than 1 MByte total. So a few seconds one way or the other does not matter. > > In addition, if I boot W95 with just the Seagate drives powered on, > > they are not even recognized at all - actually not quite true. Although > > W95 and the device drivers from Iomega will not allow these Seagate > > SCSI hard drives, the are "partially" recognized by E11 to the point > > that I can "MOUNT" them under E11, but I can't really access them > > properly. It looks as if the Iomega supplied device drivers will not > > recognize a fixed (i.e. non-removable media hard drive). > This is likely an artifact of the IOMEGA approach to SCSI system > configuration. The IOMEGA driver requires you have a previously defined > configuration in the SCSI.SCF file (or whatever that thing is called) and any > change in the configuration "breaks" the operability of the entire chain. The > ADAPTEC driver will work better in that respect, since it doesn't require a > previously defined configruation. Under W95, you just go to device-manager > and "refresh" the SCSI adapter, after which the newly powered-on devices will > suddenly appear in the "my computer" window. This would be IDEAL!!!!!!! Right now, I must boot with every SCSI ID that I will want to use powered on as a removable drive. Will that also work with W98? When I switch to the Pentium III 800, I will almost certainly switch to W98 and Netscape 4.78, but dump everything else I have including the games that my granddaughter used to play with when she was 3 years old and no longer uses now that she is 6 years old. I may want to have better sound software that can use MP3 stuff, but that is not a priority. Usually I find I can't concentrate well enough if the sound is too loud in the background. > > I would prefer to not use W95, but that is all I have to use when I post > > to classiccmp and use email and the internet. > You'll have better luck if you purge all IOMEGA software from your system. > I've found that IOMEGA drives work better with the ADAPTEC drivers, though you > can't perform any low-level functions, such as low-level format, on them > unless you use the IOMEGA setup. You might find that it works most easily if > you boot a version of DOS that you've set up to support the IOMEGA tools > whenever you want to perform those functions. As I have said, I now rarely use the Iomega Zip drive, but the one thing that would be "Nice" to retain is the ability to WRITE PROTECT the media which right now I can do ONLY on the PC. When I do that, RT-11 on the real PDP-11 can no longer WRITE to that media - which is a "Nice" feature, but not really very useful or important since I don't use the Zip drive enough to justify all that bother for that one feature. I would just UNPROTECT all the Zip media I have right now (only about 10 at the most) and transfer everything to the Sony media just in case. > > Plus, I really use the PC to run RT-11 on the PC, so please don't suggest > > getting a MAC or running Linux or some equally reasonable answer since > > I like having the system right now with RT-11 and the Zip and Sony drives > > and I can put up with the problem of having to boot with Sony drives if I > > have to. > > So, it sounds like a termination problem on the SCSI bus. But > > the ST11200N is definitely terminated from the drive. I checked at: > > http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/scsi/st11200n.html > > and J2 has both the Parity and Terminator jumpers. But when even just > > one ST11200N drive is cabled on and powered on by itself, booting W95 > > does not recognize the ST11200N, but having the Sony drive there first > > does the job as stated above. > > So I am starting to think the problem is more likely the device drivers. > You'll find that out if you try the ADAPTEC drivers and leave the ZIP drive > off the chain for the moment. That seems like a good suggestion. Can you e-mail me the Adaptec driver for the 1502 host adapter I am using? Plus a few helpful hints? Please realize I am a PC dummy - I just don't want to spend the time to learn Windows. I am 63 now and I know RT-11 very well, but that is where I want to spend my time. So I will likely continue to use the PC only for e-mail (internet access in general) and especially to run RT-11 under the E11 emulator. > > Could the 1502 and the Adaptec device drivers just not recognize an > > ST11200N (or any other SCSI hard drive that is not removable), but > > be fooled once booted with the Sony drive which has a removable media? > I've found the 1510/152x controllers work about as well as SCSI adapters can > be expected to work, and with a WIDE range of devices. I used the SONY MO > drives with them for some time, until they became too valuable to keep. Skip the following if you are not interested in what I did 10 years ago! Right now I have the Sony SMO S-501 drives which are the original that Sony released about ten years ago. In fact, that is how I started. At the time, a customer NEEDED a better way of backup for his RX02 8" floppy disks. There were about 1500 floppies using an RL02 as the backup - 20 * 8" floppies of 1/2 Mbyte each on a 10 Mbyte RL02 for a total of about 75 RL02 disks - or about 3 very large cabinets. Since there were 5 natural groups of about 15 RL02 disk packs each, the Sony media with 295 MBytes per side or about 8.75 RT-11 partitions was VERY sufficient to hold those 15 * RL02 disks worth of files on 5 RT-11 partitions. This 5 sides of media on 3 disks was then sufficient to hold the same information as 75 RL02 disks. And then there was the REQUIREMENT for 2 off-side backups. Originally, the 75 RL02 disks each had two tape backups off-site. Or about two more cabinets of storage. Now, all NINE MO media (one primary copy and 2 backup copies) were the total size of a loaf of bread and could be held in one small box less than the total volume of one RL02 disk. Eventually, ONE partition was needed for a VMS directory structure when a VMS/VAX system was also required to be able to share the backup. That hard part in that case was to generated (very carefully) a file structure in VMS in the first 32 MBytes of the MO media (RT-11 partition zero) seven contiguous VMS files which exactly overlaid each of the other RT-11 partitions - not difficult in principle, but impossible in practise since VMS does NOT allow the user to specify where files are placed. I set up an RT-11 system right beside the VMS/VAX system with its own Sony drive. By fooling VMS (in RT-11 I can easily look at any block on the media and I simply found out where the VMS free block list was located - and zeroed out all the blocks except one 65536 block set that were at the same location as an RT-11 partition - actually it was not simple and the whole exercise took 3 days to figure out and do the job), I was able to allocate 7 contiguous VMS files which could be MOUNTed in Exchange under VMS and provide access, in turn, to each RT-11 partition. The problem in Exchange in VMS was that if the whole 295 MByte media was MOUNTed as a foreign volume, ONLY RT-11 partition zero was available - there was NO parameter in VMS Exchange to say which RT-11 partition was desired. I see the drives on eBay and have purchased a few along with more than 100 media that were about to be tossed. For RT-11 which still breaks everything up into 32 MByte partitions like V3.2 of MS-DOS did, these Sony drives and media of 295 MBytes per side (8.75 RT-11 partitions) are really ideal. I can backup an ST32550N on just 4 media which is probably just about all the RT-11 files I will ever have - well, it might be double or even triple that if I count all the duplicates, but definitely not ten times. > > NOTE: I want to use the ST32550N under both RT-11 as a permanent > > and much faster hard drive (the Sony is quite slow) and W95 as a backup > > device - I have an option on a bunch of these drives even if I can't solve > > the boot problem - does anyone else want a few as well? > What do you mean by "W95 as a backup device?" Doesn't RT-11 support backup? OK - some more definitions. I now will use about 5 of the ST32550N drives to perform a backup of all of the files on my 1.2 GByte ESDI hard drive that I use under W95. A grandfaher/father/son rotation should provide adequate protection if I do that every other day and also leave 2 for the end of month. The other drives I will begin to use under RT-11 as the primary source instead of having to load from the MO media every time. So gradually (until I get the newer W98 system with the Pentium III 800 and 30 GByte dual IDE drives up and running in the next year or two), I will switch to using the ST32550N drives as backup in W95 and primary plus backup in RT-11. Can you use any ST32550N drives? They were originally in an AlphaServer as a RAID - about 18 drives in the AlphaServer. > > Question: Can anyone HELP? Does anyone have any experience with the > > device drivers from Iomega for their Zip drives? If that is the problem, then > > I am probably stuck since I prefer to keep the Sony and Zip drives over the > > hard drives. Plus if having to re-cable after I boot with a Sony drive is the > > answer, then I can probably live with that for a few more years. > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions! If anyone else is reading this, perhaps you can add to the discussion. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Jan 12 14:11:26 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Available: GXT500 video card from RS/6000 Message-ID: <20020112201126.GJ21968@mrbill.net> I've got a GXT500 video card, pulled (or, will be soon) from an IBM RS/6000 42T for sale or trade. Preferrably trade for more RAM for this machine (it currently has 128meg). Mail me if interested - I dont need the card, as I'm going to run the machine headless. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Jan 12 15:46:47 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: KA655 boot PROM errors Message-ID: <200201122146.g0CLklE01689@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Hi. Every time I switch my MicroVAX 3900 on it says: ----- ?42 2 0C FF 00 0000 P1=2004CBA6 P2=FFFFFF0C P3=00000001 P4=00000000 P5=00000000 P6=00000000 P7=00000000 P8=00000000 P9=00000000 P10=00000000 r0=0000000C r1=00000000 r2=00000042 r3=2014078C r4=20051269 r5=20051096 r6=200550A7 r7=00000000 r8=00000000 ERF=80000000 ?C6 2 01 FF 00 0001 P1=00000000 P2=00000000 P3=00000000 P4=00000000 P5=00000000 P6=00000000 P7=00000000 P8=00000000 P9=00000000 P10=00000000 r0=00000000 r1=00000022 r2=00000080 r3=201407A4 r4=2004D2F0 r5=2004D310 r6=2004D316 r7=00000000 r8=00000000 ERF=80000000 KA655-A V5.3, VMB 2.7 Performing normal system tests. 40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31.. ?53 2 05 FF 00 0002 P1=00000002 P2=00000028 P3=00000000 P4=00D45577 P5=00000000 P6=FFFFFFFF P7=00000000 P8=00000000 P9=20051BD2 P10=20051CE0 r0=00000001 r1=00000001 r2=00000053 r3=00000000 r4=00000002 r5=2004E8F9 r6=200551A9 r7=00000000 r8=00000000 ERF=82000180 30..29..28..27..26..25.. 24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09.. 08..07..06..05..04..03.. Normal operation not possible. >>> ----- What does it want to tell me? I get the same if I restart it via the reset button after power up. If it was running for a wile I don't get an error on reset. If I switch the power off for a few secounds I get the error again. NiCd akku? -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jan 12 15:56:26 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: KA655 boot PROM errors In-Reply-To: <200201122146.g0CLklE01689@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from "jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de" at Jan 12, 2002 10:46:47 PM Message-ID: <200201122156.g0CLuQs03491@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Every time I switch my MicroVAX 3900 on it says: What boards do you have in your system? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jan 12 10:41:35 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) In-Reply-To: <002601c19b7e$76fc10e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <002601c19b7e$76fc10e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: > > The design isn't all that bad but that translucent plastic is ignorant >> in my opinion - like the see through phones - who wants to see the >> guts of machines and electronics, > >Well, if classiccmpers aren't going for it, who will? It may be >a reverse thing, that people who Can't Possibly open a machine >themselves need to pay extra to be able to see it. On Thursday an interesting article was published by Robert Cringely under his column "I, Cringely | The Pulpit". It talks about the differences between Gates and Jobs, not the differences between MS and Apple. http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20020110.html Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From doug at nut.net Sat Jan 12 12:16:58 2002 From: doug at nut.net (Doug Salot) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Christine Finn in Seattle Jan 17-20 Message-ID: Christine Finn, the Oxford Archaeolgist author of "Artifacts: An Archaeologist's Year in Silicon Valley" http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0262062240/ will be in Seattle for a reading at the University Bookstore 7pm Thurs, Jan 17: http://www.bookstore.washington.edu/ubs/main.taf?area=events&page=events&catagory=events&nav=on and then plans to hang out with and interview random computer collectors for her next book. I'll be hosting her at my Bainbridge Island place during her stay, so send me a note if you'd like to hang out with us on the island, or send her a note if you'd like to arrange a meeting elsewhere in the Seattle area: Christine Finn Cheers, Doug From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Jan 12 16:05:31 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: Free: 3B2 OS tapes Message-ID: <20020112220531.GN21968@mrbill.net> I've got two QIC tapes here: - AT&T 3B2 Operating System Utilities Release 3.2.1 V3 120Mb Tape - Operating System Utilities Rel 3.2.1 V3 Issue 2 (1Q93) Free for the cost of postage. Surely someone has a 3b2 and needs an OS.. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From rhblakeman at kih.net Sat Jan 12 18:03:17 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: My P70 on ebay (info) In-Reply-To: <200201122156.g0CLuQs03491@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: In case anyone wants to take a loo it's item 1321506964 on ebay. Not the run of the mill junker either so if no one bids I'll keep it a few more years until all the junk P70's are gone - I've taken too good of care with this since I've had it. From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jan 12 18:37:21 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: My P70 on ebay (info) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >In case anyone wants to take a loo it's item 1321506964 on ebay. Not the run >of the mill junker either so if no one bids I'll keep it a few more years >until all the junk P70's are gone - I've taken too good of care with this >since I've had it. Russ, Nice P70. Which MCA memory card did you use to add the additional 8MB of RAM? Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From rhblakeman at kih.net Sat Jan 12 19:05:40 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: My P70 on ebay (info) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'll look when I open it back up to slip the SLC chip in before packing - not sure of the FRU, just know it's an IBM type rather than a Kingston, Cumulus, etc. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Hellige Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 6:37 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: My P70 on ebay (info) >In case anyone wants to take a loo it's item 1321506964 on ebay. Not the run >of the mill junker either so if no one bids I'll keep it a few more years >until all the junk P70's are gone - I've taken too good of care with this >since I've had it. Russ, Nice P70. Which MCA memory card did you use to add the additional 8MB of RAM? Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Jan 12 18:44:39 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: My P70 on ebay (info) References: Message-ID: <005e01c19bcb$7ba100e0$a72ccd18@Smith.earthlink.net> > In case anyone wants to take a loo it's item 1321506964 on ebay. Not the run > of the mill junker either so if no one bids I'll keep it a few more years > until all the junk P70's are gone - I've taken too good of care with this > since I've had it. > It's already gone, courtesy of "Buy it Now." Nice unit; nice sale. From rhblakeman at kih.net Sat Jan 12 19:05:39 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: My P70 on ebay (info) In-Reply-To: <005e01c19bcb$7ba100e0$a72ccd18@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: I just found out myself - quick!. The guy asked me about one once before but I wasn;t ready to give my baby up at that point. Things are too crowded around here so it's time to tighten the belt rather than make the stacks higher. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Wayne M. Smith Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 6:45 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: My P70 on ebay (info) > In case anyone wants to take a loo it's item 1321506964 on ebay. Not the run > of the mill junker either so if no one bids I'll keep it a few more years > until all the junk P70's are gone - I've taken too good of care with this > since I've had it. > It's already gone, courtesy of "Buy it Now." Nice unit; nice sale. From thompson at mail.athenet.net Sat Jan 12 18:50:04 2002 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:31 2005 Subject: KA655 boot PROM errors In-Reply-To: <200201122146.g0CLklE01689@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: What does T 9E say? This might cross reference some of the error codes. On Sat, 12 Jan 2002 jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > Hi. > > Every time I switch my MicroVAX 3900 on it says: > ----- From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jan 12 18:57:51 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: H744 regulator whistle Message-ID: <10201130057.ZM26594@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> I have two H744 regulators in my PDP-11/40, along with an H7441, H745, and H754. I also have two spare H744s and one each H745 and H754. All the H744s emit a fairly loud whistle, and it's driving me nuts. I've seen a note somewhere that a loud whistle is caused by the coil de-laminating, but I don't think that's the case. I tried swapping the two original H744s for spares, no difference. I also tried swapping the coil from the spare H745, which runs almost silently, and that made no difference either. I don't think I can just remove (short out) the coil either, as this is a switching regulator and the coil is needed to make it work properly. Any suggestions? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Jan 12 14:14:28 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: H744 regulator whistle In-Reply-To: <10201130057.ZM26594@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20020113011437.IJNB103.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 00:57:51 GMT > From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: H744 regulator whistle > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > I have two H744 regulators in my PDP-11/40, along with an H7441, H745, and > H754. I also have two spare H744s and one each H745 and H754. All the > H744s emit a fairly loud whistle, and it's driving me nuts. I've seen a > note somewhere that a loud whistle is caused by the coil de-laminating, but > I don't think that's the case. I tried swapping the two original H744s for > spares, no difference. I also tried swapping the coil from the spare H745, > which runs almost silently, and that made no difference either. Pete, Sounds like PSU is reacting to overloading or medium shorts downstream of that PSU outputs. Also can happen with dried up capacitors (too high ESR). I remember that too well when I shorted out a switching VCR's PSU thanks to bent pin. :-) Rising thin WHISTLE then *snap!* with mini fireworks (chopper transistor blowing up) then silence. Blown bits tally: one of resistor series, chopper, chopper transistor driver, fuse, straightened out pin. VCR functioned afterwards for years. Even that friend's vcr is funai, with my mods to improve it's quality, that thing lasted longer than it should be. (!?) :-) Cheers, Wizard From sipke at wxs.nl Sat Jan 12 19:54:24 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: H744 regulator whistle References: <10201130057.ZM26594@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <011801c19bd5$3a67b920$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Sometimes it helps to fasten coils a bit with siliconekit or araldite, or if a bit of heat is not a problem thermal-glue Silicone kit has the added benefit of dampening high freq. vibrations cause it has a somewhat rubbery constitution.... Do not totally immerse the coil in glue cause you might run into thermal problems, just enough to fixate it a bit (better). It worked for me in TV-sets with a similar problem Sipke de Wal ------------------------------------------------------ http://xgistor.ath.cx ------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: Pete Turnbull To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 1:57 AM Subject: H744 regulator whistle > I have two H744 regulators in my PDP-11/40, along with an H7441, H745, and > H754. I also have two spare H744s and one each H745 and H754. All the > H744s emit a fairly loud whistle, and it's driving me nuts. I've seen a > note somewhere that a loud whistle is caused by the coil de-laminating, but > I don't think that's the case. I tried swapping the two original H744s for > spares, no difference. I also tried swapping the coil from the spare H745, > which runs almost silently, and that made no difference either. I don't > think I can just remove (short out) the coil either, as this is a switching > regulator and the coil is needed to make it work properly. > > Any suggestions? > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jan 12 19:35:55 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Adaptec 1502 - SCSI Hard Drive Question References: <3C3DD94C.5200BCF5@idirect.com> <3C3E746A.227403F8@idirect.com> <004801c19abb$2cf99300$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3C408CFF.2FEB95EC@idirect.com> Message-ID: <002701c19bd2$e2915fa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerome Fine" To: ; "Richard Erlacher" Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 12:22 PM Subject: Re: Adaptec 1502 - SCSI Hard Drive Question > >Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > >From: "Jerome Fine" > > >To: > > >Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:13 PM > > >Subject: Adaptec 1502 - SCSI Hard Drive Question > > > Much as I hate to admit I am using W95 on a Pentium 166 MMX, it > > > is really to run E11 and run RT-11. > > > Included, I have an Iomega SCSI Insider (100 MByte Zip drive) which > > > came with a (wonder of wonders) Adaptec 1502 SCSI host adapter > > > (at least I think that was the Adaptec number - it is inside the guts of > > > the motherboard and I can pull it to check if absolutely necessary). > > The first thing I'd suspect as a source of trouble is the IOMEGA product. I > > have one or more of nearly every IOMEGA removable media drive that they ever > > produced, and not a single one has ever worked as advertised. > > Jerome Fine replies: > > Well, I am not saying that the files I received with the Iomega Zip drive > don't work with that drive - in actual fact over the last 3 years they have > worked extremely well in the W95 environment I use them with. In > particular, with the Zip drive, I can access all three RT-11 partitions > under E11, but on an actual real PDP-11 with a CQD 220/TM, for > some reason, I can see only the first two. This is no longer a problem > since I now also have the Sony drives on both the PC and the PDP-11. > Since each MO disk has 8.75 RT-11 partitions on each side (that both > the PC and the PDP-11 can see at all times - although the write speed > of the MO disks is a bit slow), I use the MO when I want to transfer > anything. > That's what's troubled me all along. The IOMEGA attempt at software has often worked ... sort-of ... but also left holes which they never seem to endeavor to fill. The 1502, BTW, is normally associated with low-performance devices, e.g. scanners, which don't demand terribly fast transfer rates for optimal operation. I'd suggest you try a faster adapter. You may find it works a lot better. > > However, based on your appraisal of Iomega software, I would, at > the very least say that the Iomega programs are able to handle ONLY > what they are designed for and very little more. So it is very pleasing > that the Iomega device drivers and other stuff can even handle the > Sony SMO S-501 drives correctly. The fact that I must fool the > Iomega programs to see the SCSI hard drives is, I guess, fortunate > to say the least. BUT, at least I have found it can be done. > Back in '90 or so when we finally got the couple of dozen '501's we had working such that all the drives would read one another's writing, etc, and the performance was reasonable by the performance standards of the day, which were not what we expect these days, BTW, it was with ISA-based 8-bit SCSI controllers that they topped out. We had none of the "high-performance" adapters, e.g. AHA 1542 available for experiments such as that. I suspect they're capable of pretty good performance with the latest drive firmware and a modern adapter. > > By the way, if you are able to read this whole reply, I will sprinkle > my actual questions all the way through. Normally, I run with the > Zip drive off (99% of the time - I just hardly use it any more and > if when I migrate to the new PC I must leave it behind, I will only > have to transfer about a dozen Zip 100 MByte disks to the Sony > MO disks to carry everything along - but it would be nice to have > the Zip for the ability to share files with others who still have that > media with RT-11 software - probably less than 5 people). > > The Sony drives are OFF 90% of the time and ON only when they > are being used - at boot time naturally and when I want to save > files from a RAM disk, i.e. when I run RT-11 under E11, I can > MOUNT DU2: SCSI2: > to bring on-line for E11 (and RT-11) the Sony drive at SCSI2:, > but I can also > MOUNT DU7: RAM:/SIZE:33554432 > which is where I work from all of the time, i.e. I run E11 with the > Sony drives OFF and only turn them ON about once every 2 hours > when I have a newer version of the program that I want to save. > Under WIndows, that sort of operation is perfectly reasonable, and, in general, thats what I'd expect to do under any circumstances with SCSI removable-media drives. IOMEGA, however, in their infinite "wisdom" uses that SCSICFG program (or whatever it's called) that leaves a file behind that characterizes the SCSI subsystem as it was when the utility was run. If you change the configuration, i.e, if you turn off a device so it can't identify itself, the IOMEGA software won't like that and often completely refuses to boot. That doesn't mean the system won't boot, but it won't have that SCSI chain on it. > > QUESTION: In your opinion, which does less damage - turning > the Sony drives on for 5 minutes every two hours or leaving them > on all of the time while I am working on RT-11 for an average of > 6 hours for each RT-11 session? i.e. leave the Sony drives ON > for about 6 hours or turn them on 4 times for 5 minutes each when > they are actually being used? > There's debate about that, but under RT-11 you don't have the risk that some Windows feature will P*SS on some part of your platter. There's still debate about whether it's riskier to power a subsystem up and down as needed, as opposed to leaving it "on" all the time. However, I prefer the former, simply because the SCSI is inteded to be used that way. > > Anyone else have an opinion on how an external drive with its > own power supply is best used - keep it on for 6 hours or only > on for 4 sessions of 5 minutes each? > > > BTW, if you're booting from the SCSI chain, the controller is absolutely not > > an AHA 1510, since that's a ROM-less version. > > Apology - my son #3 just returned his borrowed version of the host > adapter (I only needed one of the two I had) and it is a 1502 - specifically > AVA 1502 | SB (there was a vertical bar after the two - not a one) > 984700 D > 9745 > with a serial number of > BG0C7452C0H Made in Singapore > > By the way, I have "fixed" all the other incorrect references to 1510 and > changed them to 1502 except in this section. > > > > Now, wonder of wonders, not only does the 1502 and the Iomega > > > APSI device drivers support the Zip drive, but I can also connect > > > the Sony SMO S-501 as well. In fact, at one point, I had 3 of the > > > Sony magneto optical drives (SCSI ID 0,1,2 and the Zip at ID 6) > > > all running on the 1502 and of course recognizing all four SCSI > > > units at boot time (along with a C: drive and an IDE CD-ROM > > > drive) for a total of 8 drives: A: (3.5" floppy) B: (5 1/4" floppy) > > > C:, D:, E:, F:, G: (Zip) and H: (CD-ROM). > > > About half the time I boot without the Sony drives and the ZIP drive > > > and the Iomega device driver complains there are no SCSI IDs, and > > > I just press any character to continue. > > You may find you have better luck with the ADAPTEC drivers rather than the > > IOMEGA verson. I have used both ZIP and JAZ drives with IOMEGA's drivers, and > > they've never worked satisfactorily. > > OK - now can you e-mail me the ADAPTEC drivers that I should be using? > No support obligations on your part - I will first try them with a backup > ESDI hard drive and see if I can still do everything I can do now with the > Zip drive, but still be able to use the SCSI hard drives without first having > to have either the Sony or the SCSI drives powered on when I boot W95. > > I currently have the Adaptec host adapters: > AHA-2940AU > 984300-01 B > 9706 > which I presume is an ISA and > AHA-1535A > 947000-01 C > 9637 > which I presume is PCI > These are both excellent adapters, but I prefer the AHA2940AU, though I've had some lifetime and support issues with them. They seem to work about as well as any adapter I've ever used, and the Windows plug-n-play stuff works quite well with it. > > I just realized that perhaps even the original 1502 may also be OK, but > the only problem is the Iomega device drivers. So if it is best that I > continue with the 1502, that will be OK since the new motherboard > for the Pentium III 800 has ISA and PCI slots. > That's where I'd look for the problem. If you use the ADAPTEC low-level driver (ASPInDOS.SYS) for DOS or sparrow.mpd as installed by WIndows, you should have no trouble with the IOMEGA interface. Unfortunately, if you don't use their mid-level driver, SCSIDRVR.SYS (??? that's what it was, IIRC, when I started using my JAZ drive) you can't use their utilities either but that shouldn't be a problem until you need to tweak some feature on the IOMEGA drive. > > But if I can't boot a SCSI drive with the 1502 and I can do so with > either the 2940AU or the 1535A, that would probably be a valuable > addition in return for not being able to use the Zip drive - or at the > very least not being able to easily WRITE PROTECT the media as > I can do now - just right click on the Zip drive in Explorer and select > the correct item in the menu. > If you can use the AHA2940, it should give you no trouble with Windows. I can't vouch for it under the DEC OS emulator. > > > > On occasion, I want to use a SCSI hard drive (currently I have both > > > a ST11200N and a ST32550N) instead of the Sony drives (I hardly > > > ever use the Zip drive - it is normally cabled to the 50-pin cable but > > > not powered on). When that happens, i.e. want to use the Seagate > > > drives, I find it necessary to FIRST boot W95 with the Sony drive > > > powered on at the same SCSI ID I will be using for the Seagate > > > drive. Then I power down all the Sony drives, disconnect them ALL > > > from the end of the cable (a 50 pin external centronics connector > > > since the Sony drives are external boxes) and power up (sometimes > > > all three) the Seagate drives, i.e. I can't seem to keep both the > > > Seagate drives and the Sony drives powered up on the SCSI cable > > > at the same time. > > > Now, how many devices? At which addresses? It doesn't matter, of course, > > which addresses you use, unless you want to boot from one of these devices. > > If it's to be a bootable drive, it will have to be at ID=0 or ID=1. > > A bootable drive would be great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But how would I boot? > > I normally run the Zip at SCSI ID=6 and would never boot from it in > any case. The three Sony drives are run at SCSI ID=0,1,2 > I see on the 1502 there is a J21 with 5 pairs of jumpers - I have no > idea how mine is set. On the 2940, I can't see any way to set up > the CSR address. On the 1535A, I see an S1 with 4 dip switches. > Your adapter should be at ID=7. This is the convention with either narrow or WIDE SCSI channels. I'd put no drives at ID=0 or ID=1 unless you're considering them for boot. You can, of course, assuming you've got the AHA2940 in place, configure the card so it doesn't attempt to boot from any device, and you can probably also tell the motherboard BIOS to disable SCSI boot. If you want to boot from the SCSI, which I'd certainly consider as an alternative to running Windows all the time, you might want to put a power switch on the default boot drive and set the boot polling order such that it looks for the EIDE drive and, if it's unavailable, uses the SCSI to boot. That way you can boot from whatever OS you select on your bootable SCSI drive. I've used removable drives in trays for a number ofyears now, and can't imagine not having them. I even modified a tray so I can put my JAZ drive in a slot in the box, thereby allowing me to boot whatever OS is on the platter I insert, if I first disable the EIDE drive, which is trivial if I simply turn off the power to it. (The frame has a keyswitch that disables power to the drive). Because it's in a tray, I can pop out the JAZ drive and put in a different SCSI drive. The drive ID is assigned by the frame, so whichever drive is in the tray gets that ID. You can selectively configure your system by putting different OS' on different platters and putting them in the bootable drive, if you have one configured for boot. > > I find the throughput on the 1502 quite satisfactory. When I use the > ST 32550N SCSI hard drive, I can read or write a 32 MByte RT-11 > partition in about 30 seconds or less as compared with the same > 32 MBytes on the Sony and taking about 250 seconds to read and > about 500 seconds to write. But since I do all 32 MBytes rarely, > I don't consider it a problem. Most of the time, I am writing only > the source and listing files at one time - less than 1 MByte total. > So a few seconds one way or the other does not matter. > You may be pleased to find that the operation is faster with the AHA2940AU. > > > > In addition, if I boot W95 with just the Seagate drives powered on, > > > they are not even recognized at all - actually not quite true. Although > > > W95 and the device drivers from Iomega will not allow these Seagate > > > SCSI hard drives, the are "partially" recognized by E11 to the point > > > that I can "MOUNT" them under E11, but I can't really access them > > > properly. It looks as if the Iomega supplied device drivers will not > > > recognize a fixed (i.e. non-removable media hard drive). > > > This is likely an artifact of the IOMEGA approach to SCSI system > > configuration. The IOMEGA driver requires you have a previously defined > > configuration in the SCSI.SCF file (or whatever that thing is called) and any > > change in the configuration "breaks" the operability of the entire chain. The > > ADAPTEC driver will work better in that respect, since it doesn't require a > > previously defined configruation. Under W95, you just go to device-manager > > and "refresh" the SCSI adapter, after which the newly powered-on devices will > > suddenly appear in the "my computer" window. > > This would be IDEAL!!!!!!! Right now, I must boot with every SCSI ID > that I will want to use powered on as a removable drive. Will that also work > with W98? When I switch to the Pentium III 800, I will almost certainly > switch to W98 and Netscape 4.78, but dump everything else I have including > the games that my granddaughter used to play with when she was 3 years old > and no longer uses now that she is 6 years old. I may want to have better > sound software that can use MP3 stuff, but that is not a priority. Usually I > find I can't concentrate well enough if the sound is too loud in the background. > Because I have several machines, all equipped with the cheapie ~$15 frame/tray arrangements, I can put the IOMEGA drives into a system that is running DOS and Win3.11. There I have pretty good control over what the IOMEGA drivers run off and do. I load the low-level driver (ASPInDOS.SYS) from ADAPTEC, the mid-level driver from IOMEGA (SCSIDRVR.SYS) and run SCSICFG.EXE in the AUTOEXEC.BAT (as the default, set up by their install software ... an awkward step, BTW, that doesn't always work). And that allows me to use their SCSIUTIL program to format, etc, the platters. > > > > I would prefer to not use W95, but that is all I have to use when I post > > > to classiccmp and use email and the internet. > > > You'll have better luck if you purge all IOMEGA software from your system. > > I've found that IOMEGA drives work better with the ADAPTEC drivers, though you > > can't perform any low-level functions, such as low-level format, on them > > unless you use the IOMEGA setup. You might find that it works most easily if > > you boot a version of DOS that you've set up to support the IOMEGA tools > > whenever you want to perform those functions. > > As I have said, I now rarely use the Iomega Zip drive, but the one thing that > would be "Nice" to retain is the ability to WRITE PROTECT the media > which right now I can do ONLY on the PC. When I do that, RT-11 on > the real PDP-11 can no longer WRITE to that media - which is a "Nice" > feature, but not really very useful or important since I don't use the Zip drive > enough to justify all that bother for that one feature. I would just > UNPROTECT all the Zip media I have right now (only about 10 at the most) > and transfer everything to the Sony media just in case. > I've completely given up on ZIP drives and use LS120's (significantly slower, but I still can use the first one I ever got, while the IOMEGA ZIPs have died 8-9 times) which also serve as a standard floppy drive. > > > > Plus, I really use the PC to run RT-11 on the PC, so please don't suggest > > > getting a MAC or running Linux or some equally reasonable answer since > > > I like having the system right now with RT-11 and the Zip and Sony drives > > > and I can put up with the problem of having to boot with Sony drives if I > > > have to. > I don't even know enough about MAC's to be dangerous, so that's not likely ... > > > > So, it sounds like a termination problem on the SCSI bus. But > > > the ST11200N is definitely terminated from the drive. I checked at: > > > http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/scsi/st11200n.html > > > and J2 has both the Parity and Terminator jumpers. But when even just > > > one ST11200N drive is cabled on and powered on by itself, booting W95 > > > does not recognize the ST11200N, but having the Sony drive there first > > > does the job as stated above. > My external JAZ drive (I have one external, and one tray-mounted internal drive.) is in a package VERY similar to what I've seen on external ZIP drives. It has a termination switch on the back. That should be all the termination you need, provided the ZIP is the LAST drive in the physical chain. The address, BTW, doesn't matter, so long as it's unique on that SCSI chain. > > > > So I am starting to think the problem is more likely the device drivers. > > You'll find that out if you try the ADAPTEC drivers and leave the ZIP drive > > off the chain for the moment. > > That seems like a good suggestion. Can you e-mail me the Adaptec driver > for the 1502 host adapter I am using? Plus a few helpful hints? Please > realize I am a PC dummy - I just don't want to spend the time to learn > Windows. I am 63 now and I know RT-11 very well, but that is where > I want to spend my time. So I will likely continue to use the PC only for > e-mail (internet access in general) and especially to run RT-11 under the > E11 emulator. > If you don' thave the ADAPTEC drivers for DOS, I'll happily send 'em to you. You won't need 'em under Windows, though, and I doubt they'll be of much use under that RT-11 emulator unless it runs under DOS. > > > > Could the 1502 and the Adaptec device drivers just not recognize an > > > ST11200N (or any other SCSI hard drive that is not removable), but > > > be fooled once booted with the Sony drive which has a removable media? > > I've found the 1510/152x controllers work about as well as SCSI adapters can > > be expected to work, and with a WIDE range of devices. I used the SONY MO > > drives with them for some time, until they became too valuable to keep. > > Skip the following if you are not interested in what I did 10 years ago! > > Right now I have the Sony SMO S-501 drives which are the original that > Sony released about ten years ago. In fact, that is how I started. At the > time, a customer NEEDED a better way of backup for his RX02 8" floppy > disks. There were about 1500 floppies using an RL02 as the backup - > 20 * 8" floppies of 1/2 Mbyte each on a 10 Mbyte RL02 for a total of > about 75 RL02 disks - or about 3 very large cabinets. Since there were > 5 natural groups of about 15 RL02 disk packs each, the Sony media with > 295 MBytes per side or about 8.75 RT-11 partitions was VERY sufficient > to hold those 15 * RL02 disks worth of files on 5 RT-11 partitions. > > This 5 sides of media on 3 disks was then sufficient to hold the same > information as 75 RL02 disks. And then there was the REQUIREMENT > for 2 off-site backups. Originally, the 75 RL02 disks each had two tape > backups off-site. Or about two more cabinets of storage. Now, all NINE > MO media (one primary copy and 2 backup copies) were the total size > of a loaf of bread and could be held in one small box less than the total > volume of one RL02 disk. > > Eventually, ONE partition was needed for a VMS directory structure > when a VMS/VAX system was also required to be able to share the > backup. That hard part in that case was to generated (very carefully) > a file structure in VMS in the first 32 MBytes of the MO media (RT-11 > partition zero) seven contiguous VMS files which exactly overlaid > each of the other RT-11 partitions - not difficult in principle, but > impossible in practise since VMS does NOT allow the user to > specify where files are placed. I set up an RT-11 system right beside > the VMS/VAX system with its own Sony drive. By fooling VMS > (in RT-11 I can easily look at any block on the media and I simply > found out where the VMS free block list was located - and zeroed > out all the blocks except one 65536 block set that were at the same > location as an RT-11 partition - actually it was not simple and the > whole exercise took 3 days to figure out and do the job), I was able > to allocate 7 contiguous VMS files which could be MOUNTed in > Exchange under VMS and provide access, in turn, to each RT-11 > partition. The problem in Exchange in VMS was that if the whole > 295 MByte media was MOUNTed as a foreign volume, ONLY > RT-11 partition zero was available - there was NO parameter in > VMS Exchange to say which RT-11 partition was desired. > > I see the drives on eBay and have purchased a few along with more than > 100 media that were about to be tossed. For RT-11 which still breaks > everything up into 32 MByte partitions like V3.2 of MS-DOS did, these > Sony drives and media of 295 MBytes per side (8.75 RT-11 partitions) > are really ideal. I can backup an ST32550N on just 4 media which is > probably just about all the RT-11 files I will ever have - well, it might be > double or even triple that if I count all the duplicates, but definitely not > ten times. > I once believed the SONY '501's were pretty nice drives ... however, things have changed, and I really like using interchangeable drives in trays on my SCSI chains. If you have a few, say 3 or 4, identical drives in trays that allow their swap, and you can freely hot-swap them if you disconnect power (I mention this only because some of my trays require you to do that to unlock the tray, while a couple don't.) and I've found that SCSI drives cost substantially less than the equivalent amount of storage in the form of 1 GB JAZ media. (I just bought a 9.1 GB drive for $32, and plan to snag a dozen or so more if they're available at that price.) > > > > NOTE: I want to use the ST32550N under both RT-11 as a permanent > > > and much faster hard drive (the Sony is quite slow) and W95 as a backup > > > device - I have an option on a bunch of these drives even if I can't solve > > > the boot problem - does anyone else want a few as well? > > > What do you mean by "W95 as a backup device?" Doesn't RT-11 support backup? > > OK - some more definitions. I now will use about 5 of the ST32550N > drives to perform a backup of all of the files on my 1.2 GByte ESDI hard drive > that I use under W95. A grandfaher/father/son rotation should provide adequate > protection if I do that every other day and also leave 2 for the end of month. > Be careful what you call a "backup," particularly under Windows. Whereas, in some environments, a true copy is an adequate backup, under Windows 9x, nothing that appears to the operating system as a drive is suitable as backup. Once Windows recognizes and registers a drive, any virus residing anywhere in the system will be automatically notified of the presence of a new environment to contaminate. What's safe is a medium, DVD-R, Tape, etc, that requires an intermediary program to effect the data transfers under its own control without the intervention of Windows. Once a drive appears under "My Computer" you can safely assume it's infected with whatever may infect anyting else in the system. > > The other drives I will begin to use under RT-11 as the primary source instead > of having to load from the MO media every time. So gradually (until I get the > newer W98 system with the Pentium III 800 and 30 GByte dual IDE drives > up and running in the next year or two), I will switch to using the ST32550N > drives as backup in W95 and primary plus backup in RT-11. > > Can you use any ST32550N drives? They were originally in an AlphaServer > as a RAID - about 18 drives in the AlphaServer. > I don't even know what ST32550N drives are. The numbering suggests a 3.5" drive with 2 platters and 550MB capacity. The 'N' seems to suggest narrow SCSI interface. If that's correct, I'd suggest you hang onto them and use them in removable trays (visit www.ucdweb.com) since they're identical. IIRC, the MO drives were single-sided, though you could use both sides of the media, so you get only 275MB per side from them, while these will be 10x as fast and about twice the capacity as well. > > > > Question: Can anyone HELP? Does anyone have any experience with the > > > device drivers from Iomega for their Zip drives? If that is the problem, then > > > I am probably stuck since I prefer to keep the Sony and Zip drives over the > > > hard drives. Plus if having to re-cable after I boot with a Sony drive is the > > > answer, then I can probably live with that for a few more years. > > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions! > I don't think recabling will be required. You should have a termination at each end of your cable, however, and the default configuration of your AHA2940 will see to it that the adapter end is properly terminated. If you have both internal and external drives, they must have a termination at the end away from the controller, even though they're really on the same chain, with the controller in the middle. In the position at the "middle" of the SCSI chain, the controller will not terminate the chain. Be certain that at least one device on the chain has power to the SCSI terminations (TERMPWR) enabled. You can safely enable this option on ALL devices, as they should be both fused and diode isolated from the chain. This means that only one device provides power until some other device offers up a higher TERMPWR supply. > > If anyone else is reading this, perhaps you can add to the discussion. > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > > From charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com Sat Jan 12 20:04:07 2002 From: charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com (lee courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Free Stuff Message-ID: <20020113020407.70807.qmail@web20810.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, The following are free for local pickup only (Menlo Park CA) FCFS: HP150 (original touchscreen), w/2225 printer (HP-IB, that was a mistake on my part!). Las worked when powered up several years ago. 2xDEC Pro-350s with monitors. Unknown status. 2xHP9000 840s - one with CPU and video only, 2nd with couple I/O cards. Unknown status. Thanks! Lee Courtney __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Jan 12 20:26:04 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: My P70 on ebay (info) In-Reply-To: References: <200201122156.g0CLuQs03491@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20020113022604.GO21968@mrbill.net> On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 06:03:17PM -0600, Russ Blakeman wrote: > In case anyone wants to take a loo it's item 1321506964 on ebay. Not the run > of the mill junker either so if no one bids I'll keep it a few more years > until all the junk P70's are gone - I've taken too good of care with this > since I've had it. I've got a pair of P70s here; one worked fine (but had a bad HD), one I could never get to power up; I tried to swap the HD from one to the other and they never powered up again. 8-( Anybody want them for parts? Free for pickup; austin .tx. -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Jan 12 20:04:04 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) In-Reply-To: Jeff Hellige's message of "Fri, 11 Jan 2002 20:57:45 -0500" References: Message-ID: <200201130204.g0D244J94575@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Jeff Hellige wrote: > [...] As for the new iMac, I think that, like > the original iMac, it's meant to demystify computers for those that > have no interest in them for the most part and who don't want a plain > beige box taking up space. Like it or not, it's hard to ignore and > it does make a statement. Demystify? I don't know, I expect my mother is as mystified about her spiffy new 2001 iMac as she is about her 1988 Mac Plus. She just expects me to understand, and hopes she can figure it out before she has to resort to calling me. On the other hand, it does simplify computers! 2001's iMac came with a sheet of setup instructions. Six numbered pictures, no words, and step 6 is pressing the power switch. It's real simple, just connect keyboard to computer, mouse to keyboard, phone or ethernet to computer, computer to power, and then press the power switch. No need to fuss with monitor or speakers, they're built-in. What was real fun about this upgrade was getting the files from the Mac Plus to the iMac. The Mac Plus can write 800KB stiffies, SCSI, and serial; and the iMac can read CD-ROM, USB, Ethernet, modem, and Firewire. Note what they have in common: nothing. I did a dry run using an iBook and my old Mac Plus. First I got a Belkin USB-to-SCSI doohickey and installed that on the iBook. Then I connected the Mac Plus' hard disk to the SCSI doohickey and booted MacOS 9.2. It asked me whether I wanted to initialize the unrecognized volume, and I told it no. So much for that idea, and a good thing it wasn't listening for spoken commands as I'd probably have turned its ears blue. The next try was with Basilisk II running on a Windows Me Harder notebook, emulating a Quadra 650 and running System 7.5.3. This worked better: I was able to connect the Plus' hard disk via an Adaptec SlimSCSI PCMCIA interface and mount it and copy the files over. Then I was able to use Appletalk to share the volume over the notebook's Ethernet interface and mount it from the iBook. So the WinMe notebook went back east with me. There I found that Mom's Mac Plus' hard disk is a Jasmine, and there's something about it that doesn't work with Basilisk II running System 7.5.3. If it's on the SCSI bus, the simulated Mac hangs when it tries to mount the disk. After three days of fussing with this I punted, used Stuffit on Mom's Mac Plus to make archives of all her stuff (all 8MB of it!) and Mac Kermit to transfer the archives over serial cabling to the simulated Mac. That took a couple of multiple-hour sessions so let's say a day. Then I unpacked the archives on the simulated Mac and did the Appletalk share so the iMac could copy the files over. And y'know what? AppleWorks 6.1.2 knows how to read ClarisWorks 1.0 files. One of my co-workers was the QA lead for ClarisWorks 1.0, and he is very happy to know not only that a little old lady in Maryland was using it for most of the last decade, but that her bits are safe. I'm very happy too. -Frank McConnell From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jan 12 21:02:23 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Free Stuff In-Reply-To: <20020113020407.70807.qmail@web20810.mail.yahoo.com> from "lee courtney" at Jan 12, 2002 06:04:07 PM Message-ID: <200201130302.g0D32NI04313@narnia.int.dittman.net> > 2xDEC Pro-350s with monitors. Unknown status. If either of these have the DECNA Ethernet card, I'll pay you to send just the card. I need one for my Pro-380. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From nerdware at ctgonline.org Sat Jan 12 21:22:36 2002 From: nerdware at ctgonline.org (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Any interest in a Sord IS-11? Message-ID: <3C40A91C.31340.5DBE0D8@localhost> I've recently come across a Sord IS-11 (I think that was the model number....) with a 64k ram expander, the microcassette drive, and a full set of Eproms. It has all the manuals, but no power supply. Since I haven't heard of one before, and haven't seen on listed on ebay, anyone hear interested? Let me know or it goes in the recycling pile, since I've completely run out of collecting room. Thanks. Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 12 22:18:45 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Any interest in a Sord IS-11? In-Reply-To: <3C40A91C.31340.5DBE0D8@localhost> Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Paul Braun wrote: > I've recently come across a Sord IS-11 (I think that was the model > number....) with a 64k ram expander, the microcassette drive, and > a full set of Eproms. It has all the manuals, but no power supply. > > Since I haven't heard of one before, and haven't seen on listed on > ebay, anyone hear interested? Let me know or it goes in the > recycling pile, since I've completely run out of collecting room. Nice machine, and certainly not one I would want to see scrapped, especially since this one is so complete. I imagine the power supply specs can be found on the web somewhere, if you are interested in converting/building one. -Toth From allain at panix.com Sat Jan 12 22:15:08 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Any interest in a Sord IS-11? References: <3C40A91C.31340.5DBE0D8@localhost> Message-ID: <003c01c19be8$e32d4f80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > I've recently come across a Sord IS-11 Name rings a bell. Don't throw it just yet. Will look some more for info. John A. From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Jan 12 15:06:36 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: 3com 3station In-Reply-To: <20020112.125138.-450237.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Jan 2002 jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > > > On Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:21:25 -0500 (EST) Pat Finnegan > writes: > > > > > I still have a copy of 3+Share (and 3+Start) around here > > > someplace . . . > > > > That would be nice if you could find it. However, I won't hold my > > breath for it. After attempting to hook an old floppy drive up to it's > > > 34pin connector, I realized it was definately designed for something > > else (one orientation froze the box, the other shorted out the power > > supply :-( ) > > Yow! DOes the thing still light up? I never did fighre out what that > connector was for. > Yah, it still 'starts up' as much as possible. I'm about to stick a 2-channel scope on that to see if I can decipher the connector. If not, I'll hook it up to one of Purdue's $5k 'logic analyzers' eventually... I _want_ to do something with it. At a minimum, I would like to put minix on it and use it as a serial/network (color) text terminal. If I can extract useful signals off of the 34pin connector, maybe I can end up hooking up a floppy controller or a boot-rom for it so it'll be able to netboot using bootp&tftp or something... Here's my prelim analysis after taking the cover off: 1) 80286 processor, ??MHz (don't want to scrape the thermal paste off the processor. 2) '286 Pheonix BIOS EPROM 3) Some 3com "6063-06 WYL" EPROM. I'm guessing the net-boot firmware. 4) Nat'l Semi 8390 ethernet controller IC 5) 1M of on-board 100ns DRAM 6) (C) Paradise '88 PVGA-1A 7) 256k of video ram (120ns DRAM) 8) a programmed 8742 marked "6062-03ARW" keyboard controller? 9) DE-9P serial, DB-25P serial, DB-25F parallel, DIN-5S keyboard, BNC/AUI network connectors, 15pin VGA connector, 40pin 80287 coprocessor socket, 4x30pin SIMM sockets 10) pc speakers, assorted other stuff. As soon as i clear my bed of parts from a dead RL02, I'll try hooking a scope up to this thing and figuring it out. I'll probably determine what the second ROM is for (either 'other' 8-bits of ROM, or custom stuff) by seeing what happens when i un-socket it, and go from there. > > I'll take that into consideration. Thanks for the help! > > Sure. Mebbe I'll have to dredge up my copy of 3+Share . . . > That'd be _very_ cool. Again, much thanks. -- Pat > > Jeff From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 12 23:22:41 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: 3com 3station In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > Yah, it still 'starts up' as much as possible. I'm about to stick a > 2-channel scope on that to see if I can decipher the connector. If not, > I'll hook it up to one of Purdue's $5k 'logic analyzers' eventually... Have you tried connecting it to the network with a sniffer running to see how it tries to load its boot image? > Here's my prelim analysis after taking the cover off: > > 2) '286 Pheonix BIOS EPROM > 3) Some 3com "6063-06 WYL" EPROM. I'm guessing the net-boot firmware. > 4) Nat'l Semi 8390 ethernet controller IC Well, from the looks of it, it has a typical 286 era bios with a network boot rom as the second rom. The 839x series network controllers are very common, and most everything supports them. Have you had a look at the Etherboot project's website? http://etherboot.sourceforge.net/ Version 4.6 and earlier supports 286 hardware. If the second rom is indeed a feature rom for netbooting, you could simply replace it with one you create with etherboot and a programmer. -Toth From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Jan 13 01:10:28 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: 3com 3station In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > > > Yah, it still 'starts up' as much as possible. I'm about to stick a > > 2-channel scope on that to see if I can decipher the connector. If not, > > I'll hook it up to one of Purdue's $5k 'logic analyzers' eventually... > > Have you tried connecting it to the network with a sniffer running to see > how it tries to load its boot image? I've learned from somewhere (perhaps an earlier message on classiccmp) that it uses its own proprietary protocol. Anyways, I'll have to hook my 10BaseT MAU up to it so I can connect it to my network. > > Here's my prelim analysis after taking the cover off: > > > > 2) '286 Pheonix BIOS EPROM > > 3) Some 3com "6063-06 WYL" EPROM. I'm guessing the net-boot firmware. > > 4) Nat'l Semi 8390 ethernet controller IC > > Well, from the looks of it, it has a typical 286 era bios with a network > boot rom as the second rom. The 839x series network controllers are very > common, and most everything supports them. Have you had a look at the > Etherboot project's website? http://etherboot.sourceforge.net/ Version 4.6 > and earlier supports 286 hardware. If the second rom is indeed a feature > rom for netbooting, you could simply replace it with one you create with > etherboot and a programmer. > What you have said is basically what I was planning to do. Unfortunately, after careful analysis of the screen printing next to the chips ("odd" and "even" is printed there), I've determined that it won't be quite that easy. I'm thinking about dumping the rom images and replacing part of it if possible. I was hoping to use etherboot, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to get it onto the system easily. Perhaps I can use the 34pin header for that? -- Pat > -Toth > From rhblakeman at kih.net Sat Jan 12 23:33:29 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: My P70 on ebay (info) In-Reply-To: <20020113022604.GO21968@mrbill.net> Message-ID: There are three P70 mainboards on ebay right now cheap - item 1321368277 (no, not mine) -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bill Bradford Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 8:26 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: My P70 on ebay (info) On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 06:03:17PM -0600, Russ Blakeman wrote: > In case anyone wants to take a loo it's item 1321506964 on ebay. Not the run > of the mill junker either so if no one bids I'll keep it a few more years > until all the junk P70's are gone - I've taken too good of care with this > since I've had it. I've got a pair of P70s here; one worked fine (but had a bad HD), one I could never get to power up; I tried to swap the HD from one to the other and they never powered up again. 8-( Anybody want them for parts? Free for pickup; austin .tx. -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From pechter at bg-tc-ppp405.monmouth.com Sun Jan 13 01:30:53 2002 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp405.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Pro350 In-Reply-To: <200201130302.g0D32NI04313@narnia.int.dittman.net> from Eric Dittman at "Jan 12, 2002 09:02:23 pm" Message-ID: <200201130730.g0D7Ur077156@bg-tc-ppp405.monmouth.com> > > 2xDEC Pro-350s with monitors. Unknown status. > > If either of these have the DECNA Ethernet card, I'll pay you > to send just the card. I need one for my Pro-380. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ If they both do I'd be interested in the DECNA...as well. Bill -- d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Jan 13 01:35:07 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: 3com 3station In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > What you have said is basically what I was planning to do. Unfortunately, > after careful analysis of the screen printing next to the chips ("odd" and > "even" is printed there), I've determined that it won't be quite that > easy. I'm thinking about dumping the rom images and replacing part of it > if possible. I was hoping to use etherboot, but I'm not sure if I'll be > able to get it onto the system easily. Perhaps I can use the 34pin header > for that? So there are 2 roms, odd/even, one being the Phoenix bios, and the other labeled with a 3com number? It could be the odd/even labeling isn't accurate. I've see a few boards labeled like that where the silk screening didn't reflect what the chips really did. I have no idea if this unit used odd/even roms, however. What sizes are the chips? That might help determine what 3com did. Did you already try booting it with the 3com chip pulled? I almost wish I had one of these to play with myself :) -Toth From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Jan 13 10:54:28 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Any interest in a Sord IS-11? References: <3C40A91C.31340.5DBE0D8@localhost> Message-ID: <002901c19c52$f87edec0$168c70d8@default> If no one else wants it I will take my zip 77082 let me know the shipping cost and how much you want? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Braun" To: Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 9:22 PM Subject: Any interest in a Sord IS-11? > I've recently come across a Sord IS-11 (I think that was the model > number....) with a 64k ram expander, the microcassette drive, and > a full set of Eproms. It has all the manuals, but no power supply. > > Since I haven't heard of one before, and haven't seen on listed on > ebay, anyone hear interested? Let me know or it goes in the > recycling pile, since I've completely run out of collecting room. > > Thanks. > > > > > Paul Braun WD9GCO > Cygnus Productions > nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com > > "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." > From zaft at azstarnet.com Sun Jan 13 16:41:26 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: IBM RT Megapel boards F4COS Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020113153947.0206a510@mail.azstarnet.com> I have three Megapel video boards for the IBM RT, free for cost of shipping. Preference given to people in the US as it is so much less hassle. I believe them to work but I have no way to test 'em. Contact me offlist if you want one! GZ From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Jan 13 17:57:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: 8" Disk drives Message-ID: I just got a pair of SSDD 8" Control Data disk drives, and was wondering if anyone had any information about them. Here's the info I can figure out from the drive: 1) Spindle motor has a 3 pin molex connector, is rated 120V, 0.77A at 60Hz 2) 2pin next to a 4pin power connector 'J7' on the logic board 3) 50pin data connector (Can't be scsi, can it?) 4) empty 16pin DIP socket 5) 8 switch DIP switch "Magnetic Peripherals Inc. a subsidiary of CONTROL DATA CORPORATION" label with 120V ratings: Equip. Ident. No. BK8A2A (could be BR8A2A) Series Code 09 Part Number 75744025 Serial Number 127888 Label on opposite side: Flexible Diskette Driver Educational Computer Corp Orlando, Floriday MFG PART NO: 910024000-009 MFG SERIAL NO: 127888 There's a bunch more numbers stamped on the drive pieces, but I'm guessing that they won't be of much use unless I want to build a new drive from scratch (after getting in a time machine to go back 20-25 years). Thanks for the help! -- Pat From hansp at aconit.org Sun Jan 13 13:14:33 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Creating PDF's from scanned image files Message-ID: <3C41DC99.8080900@aconit.org> I think I have cracked the issue of converting scanned images into PDF using only freeware! First off get the imagemagick toolset from www.imagemagick.org You will also need c42pdf available at http://c42pdf.ffii.org/ c42pdf will create pdf files from group 4 encoded tiff images (only). To get to those images use imagemagick convert : convert -compress group4 image.tif c42pdf image.tif will create image.pdf. Read the docs to see how to build multi page PDFs. This has worked for a bunch of files for me so far. -- hbp From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jan 13 13:52:09 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Creating PDF's from scanned image files References: <3C41DC99.8080900@aconit.org> Message-ID: <3C41E569.A64D19CD@jetnet.ab.ca> Hans B Pufal wrote: > > I think I have cracked the issue of converting scanned images into PDF > using only freeware! > > First off get the imagemagick toolset from www.imagemagick.org > You will also need c42pdf available at http://c42pdf.ffii.org/ > > c42pdf will create pdf files from group 4 encoded tiff images (only). To > get to those images use imagemagick convert : > > convert -compress group4 image.tif > c42pdf image.tif > > will create image.pdf. Read the docs to see how to build multi page PDFs. > > This has worked for a bunch of files for me so far. > > -- hbp But will it work under windows? -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From classiccmp at knm.yi.org Sun Jan 13 14:44:01 2002 From: classiccmp at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Creating PDF's from scanned image files In-Reply-To: <3C41E569.A64D19CD@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: Hi, > > First off get the imagemagick toolset from www.imagemagick.org > > You will also need c42pdf available at http://c42pdf.ffii.org/ [snip] > > But will it work under windows? Possibly if you can compile against cygwin ( http://www.cygwin.com/ ) :&) -- Matt --- Web Page: http://knm.org.uk/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ From allain at panix.com Sun Jan 13 15:22:28 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Creating PDF's from scanned image files References: Message-ID: <023d01c19c78$67764fa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > > First off get the imagemagick toolset from www.imagemagick.org > > You will also need c42pdf available at http://c42pdf.ffii.org/ > But will it work under windows? http://c42pdf.ffii.org/ "c42pdf: Windows binary 0.12" http://c42pdf.ffii.org/bin/c42pdf_win.0.12.zip http://www.imagemagick.org/ "It also runs under Windows 2000, Windows 95/98..." http://www.dylanbeattie.net/magick/downloads.html "Windows 2000 binaries for ImageMagick," http://www.dylanbeattie.net/magick/ "dedicated ImageMagick downloads page." http://www.dylanbeattie.net/magick/downloads.html "im win2k 5.4.2-1 full zip" http://www.dylanbeattie.net/magick/download/im-win2k-5.4.2-1-full.zip John A. From hansp at aconit.org Sun Jan 13 16:28:05 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Creating PDF's from scanned image files References: <3C41DC99.8080900@aconit.org> <3C41E569.A64D19CD@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3C4209F5.3050000@aconit.org> Ben Franchuk wrote: > Hans B Pufal wrote: >>First off get the imagemagick toolset from www.imagemagick.org >>You will also need c42pdf available at http://c42pdf.ffii.org/ >>c42pdf will create pdf files from group 4 encoded tiff images (only). To >>get to those images use imagemagick convert : >> convert -compress group4 image.tif >> c42pdf image.tif >>will create image.pdf. Read the docs to see how to build multi page PDFs. > But will it work under windows? Sure will, both packages are availble for windows. -- hbp From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jan 13 12:25:19 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Mystical Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) In-Reply-To: <200201130204.g0D244J94575@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: > As for the new iMac, I think that, like the original iMac, it's meant > to demystify computers for those that have no interest in them for the > most part and who don't want a plain beige box taking up space. This must be a new definition of "DEMYSTIFY" that I was previously unaware of. ... to hide all details of internal workings, and isolate from all understanding; to accept as magical, mystical, and SEP (Somebody Else's Problem) > Like it or not, it's hard to ignore and it does make a statement. "Statement: I don't have any interest in computers, and don't WANT to know anything about them." Apple has been amazingly successful with their neo-luddite advertising campaign. It has enabled them to go head to head with IBM and live! The majority of people buying computers don't know anything about them, and don't want to. By sealing the system, both hardware and software, Apple has provided them with what they want and need. But there is no way that I would use the word DEMYSTIFY, which _I_ use to mean eliminating the magical and mystical component through complete understanding of what is going on. For example: UC Berkeley's CS department starts their undergrads with "Abstraction: programming with Scheme (a Lisp derivative)", but then in a later semester, they have "Demystification: assembly language, compilers, architecture, and how it works." Apple's product line is heavy on abstraction for the end-user, hiding all details that they don't need to know. They have acknowledged, and even promoted, the differentiation and gap between users and programmers/engineers. NOTE: this is in reference to their marketing, advertising, education, etc. NOT in reference to the quality of their products. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Sun Jan 13 13:24:14 2002 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Mystical Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Prediction... In the next 12 months there will be a clear version of the new IMAC much as there was a clear version of the old one. At the very least the next breakthrough for the new IMAC will be additional color choices. Seriously it seems the new machine looks somewhat fragile to me but I'm sure it will be well recieved. This comes from a person that bought a G4 cube the day they announced it would be discontinued. I wanted to insure that we got one for my little collection. George Rachor Partime Computer collector. ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > As for the new iMac, I think that, like the original iMac, it's meant > > to demystify computers for those that have no interest in them for the > > most part and who don't want a plain beige box taking up space. > > This must be a new definition of "DEMYSTIFY" that I was previously unaware > of. ... to hide all details of internal workings, and isolate from all > understanding; to accept as magical, mystical, and SEP (Somebody Else's > Problem) > > > Like it or not, it's hard to ignore and it does make a statement. > "Statement: I don't have any interest in computers, and don't WANT to know > anything about them." > > Apple has been amazingly successful with their neo-luddite advertising > campaign. It has enabled them to go head to head with IBM and live! The > majority of people buying computers don't know anything about them, and > don't want to. By sealing the system, both hardware and software, Apple > has provided them with what they want and need. > > But there is no way that I would use the word DEMYSTIFY, which _I_ use to > mean eliminating the magical and mystical component through complete > understanding of what is going on. > > For example: > UC Berkeley's CS department starts their undergrads with "Abstraction: > programming with Scheme (a Lisp derivative)", but then in a later > semester, they have "Demystification: assembly language, compilers, > architecture, and how it works." > > Apple's product line is heavy on abstraction for the end-user, hiding all > details that they don't need to know. They have acknowledged, and even > promoted, the differentiation and gap between users and > programmers/engineers. > > > NOTE: this is in reference to their marketing, advertising, education, > etc. NOT in reference to the quality of their products. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jan 13 14:07:10 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Mystical Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >This must be a new definition of "DEMYSTIFY" that I was previously unaware >of. ... to hide all details of internal workings, and isolate from all >understanding; to accept as magical, mystical, and SEP (Somebody Else's >Problem) Ok, maybe demystify was the wrong word but as you pointed out, Apple is drawing plenty of people that would otherwise not take any kind of interest in computers. Bad choice of wording on my part. Jeff (who is quite happy to have gotten a NeXT Dimansion board today!) -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jan 13 14:03:06 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Mac IIci Message-ID: <3C41E7FA.8F938961@internet1.net> Hello, The Local GoodWill has a fairly nice Mac IIci. I've done some research on the Low End Mac web site, but am still undecided if I should buy it. Low End Mac says it is a "Mac Best Buy", meaning that it is one of the models to buy, instead of avoid. Some models are best avoided because of compromises in design or limited expandability. It is uses a 25mhz Motorola 68030 processor. What would be the approximate Intel/PC equivalent? The 386DX-25? The 486DX-25? faster, slower, what? I don't have much Mac experience at all. I own a Plus, but after cleaning it, I haven't done anything with it but let it sit, mainly because of the silly 800K drives. It has a Radius video card, but unfortunately, the Radius monitor got sold separately. It was a "Pivot" monitor. I pulled the monitor of the nonfunctioning IIcx and the ci boots fine, and is running System 7.1. How much should I offer? Thanks, Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Jan 13 14:24:39 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Mac IIci In-Reply-To: <3C41E7FA.8F938961@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Hello, > > The Local GoodWill has a fairly nice Mac IIci. I've done some research > on the Low End Mac web site, but am still undecided if I should buy it. > Low End Mac says it is a "Mac Best Buy", meaning that it is one of the > models to buy, instead of avoid. Some models are best avoided because > of compromises in design or limited expandability. > > It is uses a 25mhz Motorola 68030 processor. What would be the > approximate Intel/PC equivalent? The 386DX-25? The 486DX-25? faster, > slower, what? I don't have much Mac experience at all. I own a Plus, > but after cleaning it, I haven't done anything with it but let it sit, > mainly because of the silly 800K drives. I would say about a 386DX, and it'll do about 6MIPS max (one instruction per four clock cycles on the 68030 IIRC from my Mac IIsi). (If desired) you can put an older verions of MkLinux or linux-m68k on it (I used the m68k Debian port). > > It has a Radius video card, but unfortunately, the Radius monitor got > sold separately. It was a "Pivot" monitor. I pulled the monitor of the > nonfunctioning IIcx and the ci boots fine, and is running System 7.1. > How much should I offer? I got mine for free from a dumpster, but if it works, about $10-$20 would be a reasonable price, depending on how much you want to spend, and the size of its hdd, memory, any extra cards in it, etc. I still have some 1M 30pin MAC-blessed SIMMs laying around here, email me off-list if you want any. -- Pat West Lafayette, IN, USA > > Thanks, > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jan 13 15:04:15 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Mac IIci References: Message-ID: <3C41F64F.6F2AB37F@internet1.net> Pat Finnegan wrote: > I would say about a 386DX, and it'll do about 6MIPS max (one instruction > per four clock cycles on the 68030 IIRC from my Mac IIsi). (If desired) > you can put an older verions of MkLinux or linux-m68k on it (I used the > m68k Debian port). How about BSD? I'll probably use the Mac OS, but I wonder about other options. > I got mine for free from a dumpster, but if it works, about $10-$20 would > be a reasonable price, depending on how much you want to spend, and the > size of its hdd, memory, any extra cards in it, etc. I still have some 1M > 30pin MAC-blessed SIMMs laying around here, email me off-list if you want > any. Can I use my 9 pin parity simms from my old 386? The parity bits are just ignored right? If so, then I can drop 32megs into it. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sun Jan 13 15:59:52 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Mac IIci In-Reply-To: <3C41F64F.6F2AB37F@internet1.net> Message-ID: <200201132159.PAA26439@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > Can I use my 9 pin parity simms from my old 386? The parity bits are > just ignored right? If so, then I can drop 32megs into it. > Yes. -Lawrence LeMay From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Jan 13 15:23:03 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Mac IIci In-Reply-To: ; from pat@purdueriots.com on Sun, Jan 13, 2002 at 21:24:39 CET References: <3C41E7FA.8F938961@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20020113222303.O32007@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.01.13 21:24 Pat Finnegan wrote: > (If desired) > you can put an older verions of MkLinux or linux-m68k on it > (I used the m68k Debian port). NetBSD mac68k will run fine on it. (At least it runs fine on my IIci. :-) ) Perhaps A/UX is an other option. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From dittman at dittman.net Sun Jan 13 15:49:35 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Mac IIci In-Reply-To: <20020113222303.O32007@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from "Jochen Kunz" at Jan 13, 2002 10:23:03 PM Message-ID: <200201132149.g0DLnZw17373@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > (If desired) > > you can put an older verions of MkLinux or linux-m68k on it > > (I used the m68k Debian port). > NetBSD mac68k will run fine on it. (At least it runs fine on my IIci. > :-) ) > Perhaps A/UX is an other option. A/UX will run on a IIci. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From meltlet at fastmail.fm Sun Jan 13 17:09:39 2002 From: meltlet at fastmail.fm (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Mac IIci In-Reply-To: <200201132149.g0DLnZw17373@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <200201132149.g0DLnZw17373@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <1010963405.2250.1.camel@stolichnaya> On Sun, 2002-01-13 at 21:49, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > (If desired) > > > you can put an older verions of MkLinux or linux-m68k on it > > > (I used the m68k Debian port). > > NetBSD mac68k will run fine on it. (At least it runs fine on my IIci. > > :-) ) > > Perhaps A/UX is an other option. > > A/UX will run on a IIci. Ahh, but where can you get it from nowadays? Apple will sell it to you, for $BIGNUM. Alex From dittman at dittman.net Sun Jan 13 17:21:14 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Mac IIci In-Reply-To: <1010963405.2250.1.camel@stolichnaya> from "Alex White" at Jan 13, 2002 11:09:39 PM Message-ID: <200201132321.g0DNLE917736@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > > (If desired) > > > > you can put an older verions of MkLinux or linux-m68k on it > > > > (I used the m68k Debian port). > > > NetBSD mac68k will run fine on it. (At least it runs fine on my IIci. > > > :-) ) > > > Perhaps A/UX is an other option. > > > > A/UX will run on a IIci. > Ahh, but where can you get it from nowadays? Apple will sell it to you, for $BIGNUM. I thought Apple wouldn't even admit it ever existed, let alone not sell it. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From andreas at pisec.de Sun Jan 13 17:55:21 2002 From: andreas at pisec.de (Andreas Backhaus) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Mac IIci In-Reply-To: <1010963405.2250.1.camel@stolichnaya> References: <200201132149.g0DLnZw17373@narnia.int.dittman.net> <1010963405.2250.1.camel@stolichnaya> Message-ID: <20020114005521.5627b064.andreas@pisec.de> On 13 Jan 2002 23:09:39 +0000 Alex White wrote: > On Sun, 2002-01-13 at 21:49, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > (If desired) > > > > you can put an older verions of MkLinux or linux-m68k on it > > > > (I used the m68k Debian port). > > > NetBSD mac68k will run fine on it. (At least it runs fine on my > > > IIci.:-) ) > > > Perhaps A/UX is an other option. > > > > A/UX will run on a IIci. > Ahh, but where can you get it from nowadays? Google is your friend: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=download+image+group%3Acomp.unix.aux You should find the answer in one of the posts on the first page Google comes up with. ;-) > Apple will sell it to you, > for $BIGNUM. I tried and failed miserably. Back to lurking, Cheers Andreas From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jan 13 14:41:52 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Mac IIci In-Reply-To: <3C41E7FA.8F938961@internet1.net> Message-ID: >It is uses a 25mhz Motorola 68030 processor. What would be the >approximate Intel/PC equivalent? The 386DX-25? The 486DX-25? faster, >slower, what? I don't have much Mac experience at all. I own a Plus, >but after cleaning it, I haven't done anything with it but let it sit, >mainly because of the silly 800K drives. IIRC, the general rule of thumb is: 8086 -- 68000 80286 -- 68020 80386 -- 68030 80486 -- 68040 It's once you start talking about Pentium and higher vs. PPC 601 and higher than things start getting confusing. >It has a Radius video card, but unfortunately, the Radius monitor got >sold separately. It was a "Pivot" monitor. I pulled the monitor of the >nonfunctioning IIcx and the ci boots fine, and is running System 7.1. >How much should I offer? Very little. While it's still a good system, you really need old copies of software. I've got an SE/30 that's got MS Word 5.1 on it, and it makes a great word processor. Far better than Windows could do on a simular system. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jan 13 15:01:14 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Mac IIci References: Message-ID: <3C41F59A.F64263DB@internet1.net> "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > IIRC, the general rule of thumb is: > 8086 -- 68000 > 80286 -- 68020 > 80386 -- 68030 > 80486 -- 68040 Okay that is what I thought, but I figured I'd ask anyway. Sometimes things aren't as simple as they look, and sometimes they are :-) > Very little. While it's still a good system, you really need old copies of > software. I've got an SE/30 that's got MS Word 5.1 on it, and it makes a > great word processor. Far better than Windows could do on a simular system. I'll probably have to negotiate then. They seem to wan to sell complete systems for too much. I guess they look more impressive, so they must be worth more :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From djenner at earthlink.net Sun Jan 13 15:16:51 2002 From: djenner at earthlink.net (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Mac IIci References: <3C41E7FA.8F938961@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3C41F943.E591AA78@earthlink.net> You save a few CPU cycles (16%, I seem to recall) by using (almost any) video card instead of using the on-board video. You can usually find an accelerator card (030 at 33MHz or 040) or a cache card on eBay for a few $. System 7.1 is about right for this system, or you could run OpenBSD or NetBSD. Dave Chad Fernandez wrote: > > Hello, > > The Local GoodWill has a fairly nice Mac IIci. I've done some research > on the Low End Mac web site, but am still undecided if I should buy it. > Low End Mac says it is a "Mac Best Buy", meaning that it is one of the > models to buy, instead of avoid. Some models are best avoided because > of compromises in design or limited expandability. > > It is uses a 25mhz Motorola 68030 processor. What would be the > approximate Intel/PC equivalent? The 386DX-25? The 486DX-25? faster, > slower, what? I don't have much Mac experience at all. I own a Plus, > but after cleaning it, I haven't done anything with it but let it sit, > mainly because of the silly 800K drives. > > It has a Radius video card, but unfortunately, the Radius monitor got > sold separately. It was a "Pivot" monitor. I pulled the monitor of the > nonfunctioning IIcx and the ci boots fine, and is running System 7.1. > How much should I offer? > > Thanks, > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA -- David C. Jenner djenner@earthlink.net From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Sun Jan 13 15:20:13 2002 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: Mac IIci Message-ID: <1201165672-198520810@watermarkpress.com> > Pat Finnegan wrote: >> I would say about a 386DX, and it'll do about 6MIPS max (one instruction >> per four clock cycles on the 68030 IIRC from my Mac IIsi). (If desired) >> you can put an older verions of MkLinux or linux-m68k on it (I used the >> m68k Debian port). > > How about BSD? I'll probably use the Mac OS, but I wonder about other > options. I remember using BSD on my IIcx. Forget which one though. -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com "Life. Don't talk to me about life." - Marvin, the android From robotron at ntlworld.com Sun Jan 13 04:36:38 2002 From: robotron at ntlworld.com (Dave Langley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: WTB: TMS 4060 RAM or Equivalent Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020113103631.01b38840@pop.ntlworld.com> Hi ... I'm new to this list and I'm not sure if you trade/buy/sell here but I'm looking for some TMS 4060 RAM or Equivalent. Anyone have any or know where I can get some? I need it to repair some 8080 based computers. Thanks in advance .... Dave Langley www.robotron-2084.co.uk From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 13 16:49:42 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: WTB: TMS 4060 RAM or Equivalent In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020113103631.01b38840@pop.ntlworld.com> from "Dave Langley" at Jan 13, 2 10:36:38 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 559 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020113/1b8905b7/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jan 13 18:07:04 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: WTB: TMS 4060 RAM or Equivalent References: Message-ID: <000d01c19c8f$65ffbdc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 3:49 PM Subject: Re: WTB: TMS 4060 RAM or Equivalent > > > > Hi ... > > > > I'm new to this list and I'm not sure if you trade/buy/sell here but I'm > > Yes, wanted/for sale adverts are fine here. Provided they relate to > classic computers, of course. > > > looking for some TMS 4060 RAM or Equivalent. > > IIRC, that's a 4K * 1 DRAM in a 22 pin DIL package. Non-multiplexed address, > with a clock (or similar) pin that's driven to higher-than-TTL voltages. > > I've come across them in HP equipment. Problem is, the units I've come > across them in are also rare, and shouldn't really be used as a source of > parts ;-)) > > -tony > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jan 13 18:10:06 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:32 2005 Subject: WTB: TMS 4060 RAM or Equivalent References: Message-ID: <001c01c19c8f$d27628e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> OOps! I guess I hit reply just a mite early on that last one. ISTR that there was an AMD equivalent to this part. They also made what was essentially the same part with common I/O or some other such feature that enabled its packaging in an 18-pin DIL package. I remember this only because I ordered a bunch of the 18-pin parts once and was shipped the 22-pin parts instead. Getting them swapped was no problem, though. Those days are gone, however. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 3:49 PM Subject: Re: WTB: TMS 4060 RAM or Equivalent > > > > Hi ... > > > > I'm new to this list and I'm not sure if you trade/buy/sell here but I'm > > Yes, wanted/for sale adverts are fine here. Provided they relate to > classic computers, of course. > > > looking for some TMS 4060 RAM or Equivalent. > > IIRC, that's a 4K * 1 DRAM in a 22 pin DIL package. Non-multiplexed address, > with a clock (or similar) pin that's driven to higher-than-TTL voltages. > > I've come across them in HP equipment. Problem is, the units I've come > across them in are also rare, and shouldn't really be used as a source of > parts ;-)) > > -tony > > From dpeschel at eskimo.com Sun Jan 13 04:20:38 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: Does anyone have details about the STC ZEBRA? Tony? Message-ID: <20020113022038.A2548@eskimo.eskimo.com> STC = Stantec = Standard Telephone and Cable. They sold a truly strange computer called the ZEBRA. It was designed to be cheap (it used a drum for storage and did arithmetic serially). The instruction format is unusual -- 15 function bits (I think each affects a gate) and a 12-bit address of a drum location and a 5-bit address of a "fast store" location (basically a small number of registers). The amount of logic in the machine is small, so the instruction decoding is simple in a sense. But the logic is connected in very subtle ways -- two things can happen independently, or an instruction can set a whole sequence of events in motion. There is an emulator for this machine; I have some of the literature about it too. But I don't have the manual or the schematics, and the literature I have just doesn't make the design "click" into place in my head. The emulator code is not very intuitive either. So that's why I'm hoping someone else has heard of this machine. -- Derek P.S. Tony, I think you would enjoy this design (if you don't already know about it). From hansp at aconit.org Sun Jan 13 07:07:54 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: Does anyone have details about the STC ZEBRA? Tony? References: <20020113022038.A2548@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <3C4186AA.7010300@aconit.org> Derek Peschel wrote: > STC = Stantec = Standard Telephone and Cable. They sold a truly strange > computer called the ZEBRA. It was designed to be cheap (it used a drum > for storage and did arithmetic serially). > > The instruction format is unusual -- 15 function bits (I think each affects > a gate) and a 12-bit address of a drum location and a 5-bit address of a > "fast store" location (basically a small number of registers). The amount > of logic in the machine is small, so the instruction decoding is simple > in a sense. But the logic is connected in very subtle ways -- two things > can happen independently, or an instruction can set a whole sequence > of events in motion. > > There is an emulator for this machine; I have some of the literature > about it too. But I don't have the manual or the schematics, and the > literature I have just doesn't make the design "click" into place > in my head. The emulator code is not very intuitive either. So that's > why I'm hoping someone else has heard of this machine. > > -- Derek ... Stantec Zebra, was developed from a hypothetical machine devised by Dr. W. L. van der Poel of the Nteherlands Post Office. The original Zebra was a medium sized scientific computer with drum store and valve circuits. Zebra stands for : Zeer Eenvoudige Binaire Reken Automat or Very Simple Binary Calculating Machine I snagged a set of manuals and marketing literature about the beastie as follows: 1 Some Advantages of Zebra Programming 9 pages 2 A Brief Outline of what Stantec has done and is doing - March 1959 21 pages 3 Stantec Zebra Electronic Digital Computer 7 pages {marketing lit) 4 An Introduction to Stantec Zebra 13 pages 5 Notes on the Stantec Computing System 4 pages 6 A Outline of the Functional Design of the Stantec Zebra Computer 42 pages 7 Stantec Computing Systems 16 pages {marketing glossy} 8 Applications of Zebra ~50 pages {marketing papers} I think you want 4 and 6. I'll see about scanning them (and the others) for you. -- hbp From hansp at aconit.org Sun Jan 13 13:09:04 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: Does anyone have details about the STC ZEBRA? Tony? References: <20020113022038.A2548@eskimo.eskimo.com> <3C4186AA.7010300@aconit.org> Message-ID: <3C41DB50.7070200@aconit.org> Now online at www.aconit.org/zebra/Zebra_Design.pdf is the document "An Outline of the Functional Design of the Stantec Zebra Computer". It is about 2Mb. I will scan and upload other docs as time permits. Regards, -- hbp From mythtech at Mac.com Sun Jan 13 11:01:43 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: Does anyone have details about the STC ZEBRA? Tony? Message-ID: >STC = Stantec = Standard Telephone and Cable. They sold a truly strange >computer called the ZEBRA. It was designed to be cheap (it used a drum >for storage and did arithmetic serially). I used to have two of them... if you are talking about the same Zebra systems I had. I don't know much about them. One of my first duties at this company was to replace them with PCs. They were used to run the "PICK" OS, and in that run an interviewing system called "Oscar". As far as the use I saw them doing, they really were nothing more than a terminal server. They were replaced within weeks with 386 PCs with DigiBoards, and an intel build of PICK and Oscar. IIRC, the Zebra's were based around a Motorola 68000 processor (I think at 16mhz, not sure... this is totally off memory). I do have 2 fairly large manuals for them still (3" binders with an assortment of smaller manuals or "chapters" clipped in them). I might also have a tape backup drive for it, but I think they had tape drives built in, so the external drive I am thinking of may go to my AT&T unix machines. I think I also still have the modem that was used on the Zebras (although, I would guess it is probably nothing more than an fairly standard 300 or 1200 baud modem). -chris From allain at panix.com Sun Jan 13 11:56:27 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: Does anyone have details about the STC ZEBRA? Tony? References: Message-ID: <000201c19c68$9cc25d80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> While anything running Pick is worthy of discussion on this list, IMHO, I'd like to see some more clarification. Assuming the 68000 is another computer, how big was an '59 STC? IBM 1401 sized (~~4'x5'x6')? And, could Hans' and Chris' manuals be from the same company? John A. From west at tseinc.com Sun Jan 13 13:53:49 2002 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: Does anyone have details about the STC ZEBRA? Tony? References: <000201c19c68$9cc25d80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <001501c19c6c$0606e240$0101a8c0@jay> I don't believe the system you are referring to is a Pick system. The Zebra systems that ran Pick were produced by General Automation, not STC. Unless of course, they were rebadged somehow. I did a fair amount of operating system development to the Pick O/S for a few of the vendors that produced their own implementations, so if it does turn out to be a rebadged one, drop me a line and I'll give you any assistance I can to get it up and running. I finally added two zebra's to my collection, a 2820 and a 1750. I was intimately familiar with most of the Pick vendors, and STC doesn't ring a bell anyways... Also bear in mind that General Automation also produced a line of industrial systems for process control and the like - those systems did NOT run pick. Regards, Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 11:56 AM Subject: Re: Does anyone have details about the STC ZEBRA? Tony? > While anything running Pick is worthy of discussion on this list, > IMHO, I'd like to see some more clarification. Assuming the > 68000 is another computer, how big was an '59 STC? IBM 1401 > sized (~~4'x5'x6')? > And, could Hans' and Chris' manuals be from the same company? > > John A. > > > From hansp at aconit.org Sun Jan 13 16:31:15 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: Does anyone have details about the STC ZEBRA? Tony? References: <000201c19c68$9cc25d80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3C420AB3.6080305@aconit.org> John Allain wrote: > While anything running Pick is worthy of discussion on this list, > IMHO, I'd like to see some more clarification. Assuming the > 68000 is another computer, how big was an '59 STC? IBM 1401 > sized (~~4'x5'x6')? > And, could Hans' and Chris' manuals be from the same company? Well the '59 version is 6' high by 9' by 2', plus a desk for the operator console and i/o equipment. Coming real soon now a marketing brochure with pics. Keep an eye on www.aconit.org/zebra -- hbp From hansp at aconit.org Sun Jan 13 17:09:47 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: Does anyone have details about the STC ZEBRA? Tony? References: <000201c19c68$9cc25d80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <3C420AB3.6080305@aconit.org> Message-ID: <3C4213BB.1000701@aconit.org> Hans B Pufal wrote: > Coming real soon now a marketing brochure with pics. Keep an eye on > www.aconit.org/zebra As promised, the brochure with pics and 3 PDF documents about the Stantec Zebra. www.aconit.org/zebra enjoy, -- hbp From west at tseinc.com Sun Jan 13 17:12:46 2002 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: Does anyone have details about the STC ZEBRA? Tony? References: <000201c19c68$9cc25d80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <3C420AB3.6080305@aconit.org> Message-ID: <003701c19c87$d134c8e0$0101a8c0@jay> Ummmmmmmm Definitely not a Pick machine! But.... Just for amusement.... did you notice that in the background of the system picture is a large radiator for heating the room? Something tells me that it was not needed (3kVA!) *GRIN* Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans B Pufal" To: Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Does anyone have details about the STC ZEBRA? Tony? > John Allain wrote: > > > While anything running Pick is worthy of discussion on this list, > > IMHO, I'd like to see some more clarification. Assuming the > > 68000 is another computer, how big was an '59 STC? IBM 1401 > > sized (~~4'x5'x6')? > > And, could Hans' and Chris' manuals be from the same company? > > > Well the '59 version is 6' high by 9' by 2', plus > a desk for the operator console and i/o equipment. > > Coming real soon now a marketing brochure with pics. Keep an eye on > www.aconit.org/zebra > > -- hbp > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jan 12 19:58:34 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: H744 regulator whistle In-Reply-To: jpero@sympatico.ca "Re: H744 regulator whistle" (Jan 12, 20:14) References: <20020113011437.IJNB103.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <10201130158.ZM26690@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 12, 20:14, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > Sounds like PSU is reacting to overloading or medium shorts > downstream of that PSU outputs. Also can happen with dried > up capacitors (too high ESR). I don't think it's any of those. The regulators all make a similar noise when I put them on a dummy load drawing 5A, on the bench. And I'm sure it's not bad caps, as two of them are ones I repaired recently. Maybe I'm just sensitive to that frequency range :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 13 14:28:31 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: H744 regulator whistle In-Reply-To: <10201130158.ZM26690@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jan 13, 2 01:58:34 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 564 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020113/ee0084f8/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jan 13 04:49:32 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: H744 regulator whistle In-Reply-To: "Sipke de Wal" "Re: H744 regulator whistle" (Jan 13, 2:54) References: <10201130057.ZM26594@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <011801c19bd5$3a67b920$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <10201131049.ZM26922@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 13, 2:54, Sipke de Wal wrote: > Sometimes it helps to fasten coils a bit with siliconekit > or araldite, or if a bit of heat is not a problem thermal-glue > Silicone kit has the added benefit of dampening high freq. > vibrations cause it has a somewhat rubbery constitution.... The coils in H7xx regulators are already encapsulated. Sorry, I should have mentioned that. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 13 14:27:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: H744 regulator whistle In-Reply-To: <10201130057.ZM26594@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jan 13, 2 00:57:51 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1474 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020113/6b8c0f45/attachment.ksh From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Jan 13 16:03:53 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: H744 regulator whistle Message-ID: <009501c19c7e$f2b90a70$83ec9a8d@ajp166> From: Pete Turnbull >On Jan 12, 20:14, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > >> Sounds like PSU is reacting to overloading or medium shorts >> downstream of that PSU outputs. Also can happen with dried >> up capacitors (too high ESR). > >I don't think it's any of those. The regulators all make a similar noise >when I put them on a dummy load drawing 5A, on the bench. And I'm sure >it's not bad caps, as two of them are ones I repaired recently. This is normal for them as well as the older H780. They are very loud and the pitch varies with load as well. That is a side effect of older low voltage, low frequency switch mode PS designs of some 20+ years ago. Allison From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Jan 13 04:07:41 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: KA655 boot PROM errors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200201131007.g0DA7gK02995@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 12 Jan, Paul Thompson wrote: > What does T 9E say? > This might cross reference some of the error codes. Ahhh! Nice to know this test numbers. Is there a list available on the net? OK. I get the errors: ?42 2 0C FF 00 0000 ?C6 2 01 FF 00 0001 ?53 2 05 FF 00 0002 t 9e lists this codes as: 42 20051269 Check_for_intrs *** C6 2004D2F0 SSC_powerup ********* 53 2004E8C0 TOY clock repeat_test_250ms_ea Tolerance *** TOY clock is OK, as I expect the NiCd akku to be ded. But "Check_for_intrs" and "SSC_powerup" are not that explanative to me. -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Jan 13 04:22:05 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: KA655 boot PROM errors In-Reply-To: <200201122156.g0CLuQs03491@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <200201131022.g0DAM5q03009@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 12 Jan, Eric Dittman wrote: > What boards do you have in your system? In this QBus order: 1 x KA655, 4 x 16 MB RAM, 1 x DELQA, 1 x CXA16, 1 x QT14 (Emulex TMSCP pertec controller) 1 x KFQSA 1 x RX02 clone 8" floppy controller. I don't think that it has to do with the IO boards or the enclosure. This CPU was in a BA123 with different boards before I swaped the CPUs of this MV III+ and the MV3800. -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Sun Jan 13 08:04:32 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: KA655 boot PROM errors Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662F0@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> > jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: >t 9e lists this codes as: >42 20051269 Check_for_intrs *** >C6 2004D2F0 SSC_powerup ********* >53 2004E8C0 TOY clock repeat_test_250ms_ea Tolerance *** > >TOY clock is OK, as I expect the NiCd akku to be ded. But >"Check_for_intrs" and "SSC_powerup" are not that explanative to me. SSC is the System Support Chip and it sounds as though the diags are finding something wrong with it. I have no docs that detail much about the SSC and nothing that details exactly what the diags are doing. It does sound as though the chip has some sort of serious failure. I *thought* that the SSC provided the console support too - if that's right then it's clearly not completely dead. Did these errors only start when you swapped cards around? Do thigns work when you put things back as they were? Antonio From thompson at mail.athenet.net Sun Jan 13 09:41:10 2002 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: KA655 boot PROM errors In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662F0@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Carlini, Antonio wrote: > > jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > >t 9e lists this codes as: > >42 20051269 Check_for_intrs *** > >C6 2004D2F0 SSC_powerup ********* > >53 2004E8C0 TOY clock repeat_test_250ms_ea Tolerance *** > > > >TOY clock is OK, as I expect the NiCd akku to be ded. But > >"Check_for_intrs" and "SSC_powerup" are not that explanative to me. > SSC is the System Support Chip and it sounds as > though the diags are finding something wrong > with it. Your T 9E test seems to confirm something I have suspected, that the diags on my QBUS DECsystem 5400 are the Mayfair VAX tests with some extra MIPS ones added on. (My T 9e has the same tests for those codes as yours just with a different ROM address as one might suspect) I found a ssc.h file for the KA650 in /usr/sys/machine/ on my Ultrix DECsystem 5400. My version of Ultrix does not mention the 655. It says that there is a TOY register on the SSC. Just guessing, but perhaps this is related to your errors. There seem to be other registers in there that are probably init'd from values in the NVRAM as well, and maybe a corrupt NVRAM could cause your errors... * VAX3600 (ka650) System Support Chip (SSC) registers u_long ssc_toy; /* time of year clock reg */ u_char ssc_cpmbx; /* Console Program Mail Box: Lang & Hact */ u_char ssc_terminfo; /* TTY info: Video Dev, MCS, CRT & ROM flags*/ -- From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Jan 13 12:24:10 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: KA655 boot PROM errors In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662F0@exc-reo1.yagosys.com>; from Antonio.Carlini@riverstonenet.com on Sun, Jan 13, 2002 at 15:04:32 CET References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662F0@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> Message-ID: <20020113192410.G32007@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.01.13 15:04 "Carlini, Antonio" wrote: > SSC is the System Support Chip Aha. > and it sounds as though the diags are finding something > wrong with it. Bad. > Did these errors only start when you > swapped cards around? Do thigns work > when you put things back as they were? I got this CPU already with this errors. I got only the CPU and memory boards and used them to upgrade my MV II to a MV III+. The Board swap with the MV 3800 was later. The strange thing is that I get no errors when I do a reset with the reset button when the system was running for some minutes. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jan 13 18:59:15 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: 8" Disk drives References: Message-ID: <002701c19c96$b01247a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Most CDC drives are just garden-variety 8" drives. No, they're not SCSI. They require a controller not unlike what's in a PC, and, in most cases, can be used with some cabling, etc, to work with a few different software packages that may or may not still be available. What did you wnat to do with the drive? Do you have an application? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Finnegan" To: Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 4:57 PM Subject: 8" Disk drives > I just got a pair of SSDD 8" Control Data disk drives, and was wondering > if anyone had any information about them. Here's the info I can figure > out from the drive: > > 1) Spindle motor has a 3 pin molex connector, is rated 120V, 0.77A at 60Hz > 2) 2pin next to a 4pin power connector 'J7' on the logic board > 3) 50pin data connector (Can't be scsi, can it?) > 4) empty 16pin DIP socket > 5) 8 switch DIP switch > > "Magnetic Peripherals Inc. a subsidiary of CONTROL DATA CORPORATION" label > with 120V ratings: > Equip. Ident. No. BK8A2A (could be BR8A2A) > Series Code 09 > Part Number 75744025 > Serial Number 127888 > > Label on opposite side: > Flexible Diskette Driver > Educational Computer Corp > Orlando, Floriday > MFG PART NO: 910024000-009 > MFG SERIAL NO: 127888 > > > There's a bunch more numbers stamped on the drive pieces, but I'm > guessing that they won't be of much use unless I want to build a new drive > from scratch (after getting in a time machine to go back 20-25 years). > > Thanks for the help! > > -- Pat > > From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Jan 13 14:39:32 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: Mac IIci In-Reply-To: <3C41F943.E591AA78@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20020114013937.FPG16860.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> While others talk about their IIci boxens, I have one too along with other Macs but I'm not trusting that Wordperfect 3.5e bec it's doing bus type 3 errors on certain docs (their license document will suffice that). Long search turned up no fixes for 3.5e. Anybody else do have good set of files for this patch or fixes? On video side, Is there's non-"green on sync" nubus video card permittin use of adapter and regular peecee monitors? I'm talking about these monitors without green on sync feature. Unless there's a good solution to constructing one. Part about adapter cable already constructed and in use with other Macs and peecee monitors but not for Mac II series video type. Cheers, Wizard From louiss at gate.net Sun Jan 13 20:27:01 2002 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: Prophylactic replacement of electrolytic capacitors? In-Reply-To: <20020114013937.FPG16860.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: Old computer power supplies generally have big old electrolytic capacitors. When these go bad, they can cause real problems, and damage other components. The literature indicates that many of these only have a working life of 2000 hrs., or a shelf life of ten years. Obviously, this will be exceeded in old computers. So, should these be replaced if they exceed a certain age? For the screw terminal type, is it necessary to use "computer grade" capacitors, which can be fairly expensive? If one can't find the right value in the right size package, how much extra capacitance is acceptable? And any higher working voltage rating is OK? Enquiring minds want to know. Louis From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 13 19:24:22 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: 8" Disk drives In-Reply-To: from "Pat Finnegan" at Jan 13, 2 06:57:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1879 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020114/1dd82cc0/attachment.ksh From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 13 19:35:27 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: Xircom NICs (was RE: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue?) In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014674B5@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <20020114013527.62150.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> --- David Woyciesjes wrote: I wrote: > ! >as-is 3c589 NICs... for $5, but no dongle... a Xircom PS-CEM-28 > ! >(also no dongles). > > Well, I have the Xircom 10/100 & 56k modem combo card, that has the > actual jacks buit into it. No dongles to worry about :-P It's a nice card. I have one, but it has a problem... it's CardBus, not PCMCIA - 32-bit vs 16-bit. Since I have machines like a PS/2-E (quad PCMCIA), I have use for more than one NIC in a machine (I did put 4 3C589s in it for use as a router on a development LAN at a small start-up company I worked at last year - saved the company a bunch - got laid off anyway - took my toys and went home). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From nerdware at ctgonline.org Sun Jan 13 20:15:59 2002 From: nerdware at ctgonline.org (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: Any interest in a Sord IS-11? In-Reply-To: References: <3C40A91C.31340.5DBE0D8@localhost> Message-ID: <3C41EAFF.31308.AC57028@localhost> I've had a couple of emails from interested people, so it won't be scrapped. >From reading the manuals and literature, it seemed very heavily- oriented to application development. Anyone know what these suckers were mainly used for? > On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Paul Braun wrote: > > > I've recently come across a Sord IS-11 (I think that was the model > > number....) with a 64k ram expander, the microcassette drive, and a > > full set of Eproms. It has all the manuals, but no power supply. > > > > Since I haven't heard of one before, and haven't seen on listed on > > ebay, anyone hear interested? Let me know or it goes in the > > recycling pile, since I've completely run out of collecting room. > > Nice machine, and certainly not one I would want to see scrapped, > especially since this one is so complete. I imagine the power supply > specs can be found on the web somewhere, if you are interested in > converting/building one. > > -Toth Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From djg at drs-esg.com Sun Jan 13 20:31:04 2002 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: Creating PDF's from scanned image files Message-ID: <200201140231.VAA13721@drs-esg.com> > I think I have cracked the issue of converting scanned images into PDF > using only freeware! > > First off get the imagemagick toolset from www.imagemagick.org > You will also need c42pdf available at http://c42pdf.ffii.org/ > > c42pdf will create pdf files from group 4 encoded tiff images (only). To > get to those images use imagemagick convert : > > convert -compress group4 image.tif > c42pdf image.tif > > will create image.pdf. Read the docs to see how to build multi page PDFs. > I convert tiff to g4 tiff with the following tiffcp -L -c g4 -r 10000 infile1 [infile2...] outfile This tool takes much less memory to convert. This is from libtiff-3.5.5-2. http://www.libtiff.org/ (part of the tifftools) I have a version that I fixed some problems in c42pdf at ftp://ftp.pdp8.net/software/c42pdf/ If somebody wants a windows binary I can try building a command line one with cygwin, email me. Command line I use c42pdf -q -o outfile -p o --nostretch --noflip infile.tif It also has a --pages flag to only convert some pages. This is done on the fly to convert the tiff's on my site to pdf. This doesn't create optimized PDF's so acrobat can't fetch them a page at the time (for good or bad, frequently that delay on each page annoys me) http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/query_docs/query.pl David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. From mtapley at swri.edu Sun Jan 13 18:53:40 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (longish) In-Reply-To: <200201130008.g0D08De47465@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: All, I'm having and creating trouble with my Stylewriter 1. Problem appeared about a month ago. One row of pixels consistently failed to print. This happened on multiple ink-jet cartridges and after attempting to clean the cartridge (by soaking in 95% propan-2-ol, or isopropyl as the label says). So I opened the thing up, breaking only a few minor plastic latch pieces on the way (and hey, I glued them back - good as new! :-) ). I ohmed out the flex cable from the circuit board up to the print head. The left 25 pads on the circuit board end of the cable conduct with no more than a few ohms up to the 25 contacts where the print cartridge attaches. So I reassembled enough to let it print while I could still see the flex cable. Still missing a row of pixels. The left 2 of the wide traces and the right 2 of the wide traces connect to pins on the flex-cable connector which show about 3V rms while printing and zero while not printing. 3V rms means that's about what my analog Volt-Ohm-meter needle showed while printing a solid black block. But I could not get to the middle 4 connectors because the ribbon cable was in the way. So I took out the circuit board, flipped it over, reconnected all the cables (right way around? I thought so ....) and tried to print again. The printer powered up, but as it tried to print the first time, the power supply (wall-wart) quit working. This was also around the time my VM probe slipped off one of the pins on the row of transistors I was trying to check :-(. Did I short something bad, or mis-connect the ribbon cables and do something equally bad? The power supply (wall-wart) now puts out about 0.2 V (again on my analog VM), vs. the 10 or 11 it used to do. So, questions: 1) Is my (original) problem likely to be one of those transistors? There's a row of 9 of them, right next to the flex-cable connector, with big fat traces leading to doubled pins on the connector and thence to nice wide traces on the flex cable. They are labelled B1243 (I think). 2) What's a less destructive way of telling which one? - Or is it better to just replace all of them? 3) How, short of a large hammer, do I get the power supply opened up? 4) What am I likely to find toasted in there? More details available on request. I'm in digest mode, so it'll be a one-day cycle unless you email me directly (mtapley@swri.edu), and still probably a day because I'll read email at work and the busted machine is at home. Apologies if this is not on-topic. Thanks in advance for any help or pointers. - Mark From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Jan 13 21:17:41 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (longish) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Mark Tapley wrote: > So I opened the thing up, breaking only a few minor plastic latch pieces on > the way (and hey, I glued them back - good as new! :-) ). I ohmed out the > flex cable from the circuit board up to the print head. The left 25 pads on > the circuit board end of the cable conduct with no more than a few ohms up > to the 25 contacts where the print cartridge attaches. Did you try flexing this cable while checking its resistance? I've replaced a few similar cables in other printers that had intermittent breaks in the conductors when they were flexed a certain way. Good luck with the glue, super glue and glue designed for polystyrene plastics does not bond ABS plastics very well. > The power supply (wall-wart) now puts out about 0.2 V (again on my analog > VM), vs. the 10 or 11 it used to do. Sounds like it blew an internal fuse or the secondary winding it open. The little bit of voltage you are seeing is probably leakage between the primary and secondary windings (cheap or improperly wound transformers). > 1) Is my (original) problem likely to be one of those transistors? There's > a row of 9 of them, right next to the flex-cable connector, with big fat > traces leading to doubled pins on the connector and thence to nice wide > traces on the flex cable. They are labelled B1243 (I think). For inkjet printers with printing problems, I usually check 3 things in the following order: 1: cartridge 2: flex cable 3: driver chips or transistors > 2) What's a less destructive way of telling which one? > - Or is it better to just replace all of them? A cheap transistor checker? A multimeter can sometimes be used, but it helps to have the pinout and specs for the transistor on hand. > 3) How, short of a large hammer, do I get the power supply opened up? A large rubber hammer sometimes works. A dull knife hit with the same rubber hammer on the glued seams can also work, but you have to be very careful not to let it cut into anything inside the brick. A vice with 3/8" thick wood blocks also can be used to squeeze the sides of the brick slightly to break the glue seams. You need the wood to prevent the vice from damaging the plastic. I've used all of these techniques to open wall-warts and bricks. It takes practice to open them with little or no damage. > 4) What am I likely to find toasted in there? You may find a blown fuse, sometimes directly on the transformer. You should take an ohmmeter and see what the primary and secondary winding resistances are. If there is no fuse, and one of the windings is open, I'd recommend you simply replace the whole brick. Of course, if you own a coil winding machine and have the proper wire on hand, there is no reason not to repair it. -Toth From classiccmp at knm.yi.org Sun Jan 13 21:49:50 2002 From: classiccmp at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (longish) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, [snip] > Good luck with the glue, super glue and glue designed for polystyrene > plastics does not bond ABS plastics very well. OTOH, Araldite (an epoxy) works a treat in my experience :&) It often sets harder than the plastic in the first place! I repaired the hinges on my compaq LTE5100 with araldite and sail repair tape (ripstop nylon) - worked a treat :&) (anyone else think I overdo the smilies? :&) -- Matt --- Web Page: http://knm.org.uk/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Jan 13 20:50:20 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: Mac IIci In-Reply-To: <20020114013937.FPG16860.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at "Jan 13, 2 08:39:32 pm" Message-ID: <200201140250.SAA28540@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > On video side, Is there's non-"green on sync" nubus video card > permittin use of adapter and regular peecee monitors? I'm > talking about these monitors without green on sync feature. Unless > there's a good solution to constructing one. Part about adapter > cable already constructed and in use with other Macs and peecee > monitors but not for Mac II series video type. There are plenty; try looking for an 8*24, or if you're using 7.1 or lower, use the wonderful 8*24*GC accelerated video system. However, I can use my NEC Multisync XV15+ just fine with my IIci's internal video with one of the 10-DIP-switch adapters (turn on switches 1, 4, 5 and 8; turn off all others). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but I have to floss my parakeet." ------------ From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Jan 13 20:58:45 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: Mac IIci Message-ID: In a message dated 1/13/2002 3:07:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, fernande@internet1.net writes: > The Local GoodWill has a fairly nice Mac IIci. I've done some research > on the Low End Mac web site, but am still undecided if I should buy it. > i'd say get it if you dont have one. ci model is much better than si and unlike the cx, has builtin video. I have one complete with video capture card and came with and still setup for videoconferencing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020113/7236c179/attachment.html From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jan 13 20:55:31 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: 8" Disk drives References: Message-ID: <000901c19ca6$ee3f13e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Did the CDC/MPI Hardware Maintenance Manual include the jumper options and setup details? I recall that the Mitsubishi, Shugart, and Qume maintenance manuals didn't, and the Siemens, though they showed the various circuits, didn't explain what they did. The one most often needed is the OEM manual. That's the one with the installation and setup data, as well as the spec's. Those are lots more common than the maintenance manuals as well. If you need the maintenance manual, you're in BIG trouble, particularly if you haven't got it. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 6:24 PM Subject: Re: 8" Disk drives > > > > I just got a pair of SSDD 8" Control Data disk drives, and was wondering > > if anyone had any information about them. Here's the info I can figure > > out from the drive: > > How many people can guess my next statement? Yes ... > > I have the 'Hardware Maintenance Manual' for that series of drives. > > > > > > 1) Spindle motor has a 3 pin molex connector, is rated 120V, 0.77A at 60Hz > > 2) 2pin next to a 4pin power connector 'J7' on the logic board > > 3) 50pin data connector (Can't be scsi, can it?) > > 4) empty 16pin DIP socket > > 5) 8 switch DIP switch > > > > "Magnetic Peripherals Inc. a subsidiary of CONTROL DATA CORPORATION" label > > with 120V ratings: > > Equip. Ident. No. BK8A2A (could be BR8A2A) > > Series Code 09 > > Part Number 75744025 > > Serial Number 127888 > > > OK, that's Model Number (Equipment ID) BR8A2A, Part nymber 7574025. > Therre's a table in the manual. That version has a daisy-chain interface > (like most floppy drives), with internal data separator, etc, 120V, power > requirements +24V and +5V at J7. > > The pinout of the 50 pin interface connector is similar to that on the > Shugart SA800 series. It's nothing like SCSI -- it's a 'raw' interface, > carrying the bit stream to/from the read/write circuit. It's up to the > controller to turn that into bytes, etc. > > Anyway, the pinout is : > > 1-49 (odd numbers) : ground > 2 : Read Data Composite > 4 : Head Load > 6 : Track 00 > 8 : Index > 10 : Low Current > 12 : Step > 14 : Direction > 16 : Write Enable > 18 : Write Data > 20 : Unit Select 1 > 22 : Unit Select 2 > 24 : Unit Select 3 > 26 : Unit Select 4 > 28 : Ready 1 > 30 : Ready 2 > 32 : Ready 3 > 34 : Ready 4 > 36 : Write Protect > 38 : Read Data Separated > 42 : Clock Separated > 44 : Write FaultB > 46 : Write Fault Reset > > The power connector (J7) has the following pinout : > > 1 : Not Used > 2 : +5V > 3 : Ground (+5V return) > 4 : +24V > 5 : Pin Missing > 6 : Ground (+24V return) > 7 : Not Used > > -tony > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jan 13 21:01:52 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: Xircom NICs (was RE: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue?) References: <20020114013527.62150.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001d01c19ca7$d17287a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I liked the looks of those dual PC-cards, and their apparent robustness. My Toshiba notebook took 4 PC cards and would allow me to use my SCSI adapter with two PC cards already in the system. My WInbook, however, has only two PC-card slots, and it's often enough that I do need the SCSI adapter, but need one but not both of the two functions. That's why I bought separate PC cards. The modem in the Toshiba was a PC Card with that "X-Jack" that worked pretty well, but one always worried about breaking it. The dongles are just as fragile, however. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 6:35 PM Subject: Xircom NICs (was RE: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: PC Gamer, best 50 classic games issue?) > > --- David Woyciesjes wrote: > > I wrote: > > ! >as-is 3c589 NICs... for $5, but no dongle... a Xircom PS-CEM-28 > > ! >(also no dongles). > > > > Well, I have the Xircom 10/100 & 56k modem combo card, that has the > > actual jacks buit into it. No dongles to worry about :-P > > It's a nice card. I have one, but it has a problem... it's CardBus, > not PCMCIA - 32-bit vs 16-bit. Since I have machines like a PS/2-E > (quad PCMCIA), I have use for more than one NIC in a machine (I did > put 4 3C589s in it for use as a router on a development LAN at a small > start-up company I worked at last year - saved the company a bunch - got > laid off anyway - took my toys and went home). > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! > http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ > > From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Jan 13 22:03:15 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: Compaq LTE 5000 series, slightly OT (was: Re: Xircom NICs (was RE: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: .... )) In-Reply-To: <001d01c19ca7$d17287a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I liked the looks of those dual PC-cards, and their apparent > robustness. My Toshiba notebook took 4 PC cards and would allow me to > use my SCSI adapter with two PC cards already in the system. My > WInbook, however, has only two PC-card slots, and it's often enough > that I do need the SCSI adapter, but need one but not both of the two > functions. That's why I bought separate PC cards. The modem in the > Toshiba was a PC Card with that "X-Jack" that worked pretty well, but > one always worried about breaking it. The dongles are just as > fragile, however. While not quite yet a classic, one of my more favorite series of laptops is the Compaq LTE 5000. It supported a total of 4 pcmcia cards when it was used with a docking station. These were truly unique machines IMHO, and set the standards for removable cdrom and floppy drives in future laptop systems. I don't know of any other manufacturer at the time who offered a machine with similar features. The 5000 series consisted of models from the 5000 to the 5400. They were beige in color, like the earlier LTE laptops offered by Compaq, and are still distinct today. All of the 5000 series laptops were mid range Pentium systems, with the 5400 topping out at 150MHz. The 5400 had 512k of cpu cache, the rest had 256k. Ram wise, the 5400 topped out at 80MB (16MB built-in and 64MB module), with most topping out at 72MB (only 8MB was built-in.) The multi-bay feature was a big selling point for these laptops. You could remove the floppy or cdrom drive from the laptop's multi-bay, and put in a second battery for extended road trips. The docking stations had two more multi-bays, so when docked, a total of 3 were available. The MPEG capture/playback module is still a unique feature of the 5000 series. It was a rectangular box with connectors on the rear that plugged into the laptop's expansion connector. It would also fit into a special opening on the docking stations. I haven't yet seen another docking station that offers a MIDI/joystick port. The docking station also had an ISA slot, and one of the two models had built-in speakers for audio playback. The amplifier circuit for the built-in speakers was prone to picking up noise from the data bus, however. Even with all the extras, this laptop line still had some serious limitations which kept it from becoming as popular as it could have been. It only offered 16 bit pcmcia card support instead of the 32 bit cardbus that was available on other laptops at the time. Only 1MB of video ram was available, with no way to expand it. The BIOS of these machine is also quite buggy. Compaq never did fix the BIOS bugs, and I doubt they ever will, since the product line is abandoned now. -Toth From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jan 13 21:09:20 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: H744 regulator whistle In-Reply-To: "ajp166" "Re: H744 regulator whistle" (Jan 13, 17:03) References: <009501c19c7e$f2b90a70$83ec9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <10201140309.ZM3490@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 13, 17:03, ajp166 wrote: > From: Pete Turnbull > >On Jan 12, 20:14, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > > >> Sounds like PSU is reacting to overloading or medium shorts > >> downstream of that PSU outputs. Also can happen with dried > >> up capacitors (too high ESR). > > > >I don't think it's any of those. The regulators all make a similar > noise > >when I put them on a dummy load drawing 5A, on the bench. And I'm sure > >it's not bad caps, as two of them are ones I repaired recently. > > This is normal for them as well as the older H780. They are very loud > and the pitch varies with load as well. That is a side effect of older > low voltage, low frequency switch mode PS designs of some 20+ years ago. I suppose so, I just didn't think it ought to be so irritating! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jan 13 21:12:26 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: H744 regulator whistle In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: H744 regulator whistle" (Jan 13, 20:28) References: Message-ID: <10201140312.ZM3494@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 13, 20:28, Tony Duell wrote: > > On Jan 12, 20:14, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > > > > Sounds like PSU is reacting to overloading or medium shorts > > > downstream of that PSU outputs. Also can happen with dried > > > up capacitors (too high ESR). > > > > I don't think it's any of those. The regulators all make a similar noise > > when I put them on a dummy load drawing 5A, on the bench. And I'm sure > > Have you tried a lighter _or heavier_ load? It can make quite a > difference. Yes, it changes the pitch somewhat (as I would expect) and it gets slightly louder with a heavier load. > > it's not bad caps, as two of them are ones I repaired recently. > > Which, if any, capacitors did you replace? In one H744, all the electrolytics (the output one had gone, so I figured I might as well do the lot). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jan 13 21:20:19 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: H744 regulator whistle In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: H744 regulator whistle" (Jan 13, 20:27) References: Message-ID: <10201140320.ZM3500@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 13, 20:27, Tony Duell wrote: > Yes, it's certainly a switching regulator, and the inductor (the large > block with screw-post terminals) is needed for it to work. Don't try > shorting it out -- I am not sure what happens if you do, but I would hope > the crowbar would fire as soon as the chopper turned on and supplied > 30V-ish to the output (with no inductor, the output voltage would rise > essentially intantaneously). > > These supplies will whistle if : > > The capacitors -- particularly the output one -- have high ESR. Check or > replace them. Done. > The load is just 'wrong' (these, AFAIK, are not constant-frequency > supplies). Try adding or removing load (!). Tried that. At very light loads, the whistle almost disappears. It gets louder and the pitch changes as the load increases. The most load I've tried is a full backplane, though I'm not exactly sure what the current drawn would be. > The Inductor potting compount is breaking up. Swapping the inductors between 4 x H744 and 2 x H745 makes no apparent difference, and I expect it's unlikely they've all suffered the same fate. They came from two different machines. > Loose fixing screws can cause odd noises -- try tightening everything in > the PSU chassis. One of the first things I checked :-) I suspect, as Allison wrote, that it's just the normal noise from that type of regulator, and I'm just a bit oversensitive to it :-( Thanks for the various suggestions, everyone. I'll try putting covers on a couple of them (one already has one, and some of the other regulators do as well) and mounting them on a sheet of damping material, and learn to live with the residual noise. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pne.chomko at verizon.net Sun Jan 13 21:31:46 2002 From: pne.chomko at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: test - ignore Message-ID: <3C425121.410009C4@verizon.net> from Mac. From CLeyson at aol.com Sun Jan 13 21:41:17 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: WTB: TMS 4060 RAM or Equivalent Message-ID: Try Dial Electronics http://www.dialelec.com. They have TMS4060 in stock TMS4060JDL 3-4 WEEKS CALL TMS4060JL STOCK ?8.4999 $12.74985 TMS4060NL 3-4 WEEKS ?1.1199 $1.67985 Note: J suffix is ceramic package, N for plastic. Best Regards Chris Leyson From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Jan 13 22:13:35 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (longish) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Matt London wrote: > [snip] > > Good luck with the glue, super glue and glue designed for polystyrene > > plastics does not bond ABS plastics very well. > > OTOH, Araldite (an epoxy) works a treat in my experience :&) It often sets > harder than the plastic in the first place! I repaired the hinges on my > compaq LTE5100 with araldite and sail repair tape (ripstop nylon) - worked > a treat :&) I may have to look for that epoxy sometime. I once found a 2 part epoxy in a dual tube (made bu duro?) that worked well on ABS. The epoxy had a really, really bad smell too it, and had a cream color when not set. It turned dark yellow after setting for about a week. I wish I could find this epoxy again, as I have 3 486 era NEC laptops with broken hinges that might benefit from it. It would bond metal to ABS very well. I recently found an ABS model cement at a hobby shop, and am itching to try it on the ABS skins for my SGI deskside systems. Many of the pegs that hold the skins to the chassis were broken loose before I got the machines, but they are still there. One of the skins has serious damage (and missing broken parts) on one corner, and I'm not yet sure how I'll repair that. -Toth From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Sun Jan 13 22:46:56 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) In-Reply-To: <200201130204.g0D244J94575@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020114154453.0217ad88@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 06:04 PM 12/01/2002 -0800, Frank McConnell wrote: >2001's iMac came with a sheet of setup instructions. Six numbered >pictures, no words, and step 6 is pressing the power switch. It's >real simple, just connect keyboard to computer, mouse to keyboard, >phone or ethernet to computer, computer to power, and then press the >power switch. No need to fuss with monitor or speakers, they're >built-in. It's a pity that Apple didn't decide to have wireless keyboard and mouse for the new iMAC. I've just updated to a nice Logitech wireless solution and as soon as I move all the computers off the desk into the new rack I might banish all wires (with the exception of the monitor) leaving more space for the "computer of the day" (The PX-8 and the DECmate-III are fighting to be the next in line). Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From mythtech at Mac.com Sun Jan 13 22:53:27 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: Does anyone have details about the STC ZEBRA? Tony? Message-ID: >The Zebra >systems that ran Pick were produced by General Automation, not STC. Unless >of course, they were rebadged somehow. I have NO idea who made the Zebras I had. I just always remembered the name of the machine was Zebra (that and for the last month or so, I have been tripping over the manuals since they migrated from their storage shelf to the floor next to my desk for lack of room elsewhere) I DO know that they ran Pick, so if STC didn't make a Pick version of the Zebra but General Automation did, then I would have to say they were probably General Automation machines. >Well the '59 version is 6' high by 9' by 2', plus >a desk for the operator console and i/o equipment. WOA... definitely NOT the machines I had. I don't remember the exact size, but they were luggable size (large desktop PCish). Probably about 8 or 10 inches high, 18 inches or so wide, and about 36 inches long. Don't remember the weight, but I carried them to the trash, so they were manageable. Both of mine had been stacked on top of each other, and sat on a metal desk. -chris From donm at cts.com Sun Jan 13 23:03:44 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (longish) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Matt London wrote: > Hi, > > [snip] > > Good luck with the glue, super glue and glue designed for polystyrene > > plastics does not bond ABS plastics very well. > > OTOH, Araldite (an epoxy) works a treat in my experience :&) It often sets > harder than the plastic in the first place! I repaired the hinges on my > compaq LTE5100 with araldite and sail repair tape (ripstop nylon) - worked > a treat :&) > > (anyone else think I overdo the smilies? :&) > > -- Matt No, smilies are fine, but the Araldite may be an overkill. Remember, you may want to open it again! Make the glue job just enough to keep the cover on. - don > --- > Web Page: > http://knm.org.uk/ > http://pkl.net/~matt/ > > From pne.chomko at verizon.net Sun Jan 13 22:26:40 2002 From: pne.chomko at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: Mac IIci References: Message-ID: <3C425DF9.43D07CD4@verizon.net> "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >It is uses a 25mhz Motorola 68030 processor. What would be the > >approximate Intel/PC equivalent? The 386DX-25? The 486DX-25? faster, > >slower, what? I don't have much Mac experience at all. I own a Plus, > >but after cleaning it, I haven't done anything with it but let it sit, > >mainly because of the silly 800K drives. > > IIRC, the general rule of thumb is: > 8086 -- 68000 > 80286 -- 68020 > 80386 -- 68030 > 80486 -- 68040 > Yes, and the 80186 -- 68010. Both existed but were not popular in many systems. Both equally quite rare in that regard. Anyway, I added them for completeness. > > It's once you start talking about Pentium and higher vs. PPC 601 and higher > than things start getting confusing. > You mean it wasn't confusing already, and the PPC vs. Pentium simply isn't MORE confusing? :) > > >It has a Radius video card, but unfortunately, the Radius monitor got > >sold separately. It was a "Pivot" monitor. I pulled the monitor of the > >nonfunctioning IIcx and the ci boots fine, and is running System 7.1. > >How much should I offer? > > Very little. While it's still a good system, you really need old copies of > software. I've got an SE/30 that's got MS Word 5.1 on it, and it makes a > great word processor. Far better than Windows could do on a simular system. > Every Mac system was superior to its Windows conterpart from that above list of microprocessor equivalents. Speaking of Macs, I am responding from my Mac G3 system that is now on-line. I finally have my PC, laptop PC and Mac on-line using DSL modem and router. Next is a Linux box and I'll be all set for awhile. Eric > > Zane > > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 13 23:35:57 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) In-Reply-To: <3C425DF9.43D07CD4@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20020114053557.66993.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Chomko wrote: > Yes, and the 80186 -- 68010. > Both existed but were not popular in many systems. Both equally > quite rare in that regard. I suppose the 68000 and 68020 were bigger sellers than the 68010, but they were a favorite "upgrade" for the Amiga 1000 owner who wanted to squeeze another 3% out of their box ("loop mode" one-instruction cache accounted for most of that). They appeared in early UNIX workstations (NCR Tower, perhaps?) because they could reasonably handle demand-paged virtual memory (much cleaner than some of the schemes for the 68000 itself). I've always liked the 68010. Got a few, 'cause we put them into the final rev of COMBOARD, the VAXBI COMBOARD. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From mythtech at Mac.com Sun Jan 13 22:53:29 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:33 2005 Subject: Mac IIci Message-ID: >It is uses a 25mhz Motorola 68030 processor. What would be the >approximate Intel/PC equivalent? The 386DX-25? The 486DX-25? faster, >slower, what? I don't have much Mac experience at all. I own a Plus, >but after cleaning it, I haven't done anything with it but let it sit, >mainly because of the silly 800K drives. The 68030 and 68040 were roughly equivelent to 80386 and 80486 (respectively). Clock speed to Clock speed. There didn't start to be major differences until the PPC chip line. But frankly, that is just "rough analogy" as what you run will make huge differences in performance. The only thing that can be tough about the IIci is that is uses 30pin non parity simms, which are starting to be harder and harder to find inexpensively. The IIci *might* be able to work with parity simms, not sure (early macs could NOT, but some of the later ones IIRC could use parity or non parity) >It has a Radius video card, but unfortunately, the Radius monitor got >sold separately. It was a "Pivot" monitor. I pulled the monitor of the >nonfunctioning IIcx and the ci boots fine, and is running System 7.1. >How much should I offer? The IIci has a built in video card as well. You can use a standard Apple RGB monitor with it, or get an RGB to VGA adaptor (or I can send you the pinouts for making a good one), and use any VGA or SVGA monitor. As far as what to offer... as little as you can get away with. The machine is decent, but at this point, low end PPCs are winding up in dumpsters. So unless you WANT the IIci compared to you just want A useable mac... I wouldn't pay much more than about $10. -chris From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Jan 13 23:28:04 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: Mac IIci In-Reply-To: from Chris at "Jan 13, 2 11:53:29 pm" Message-ID: <200201140528.VAA09200@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > The only thing that can be tough about the IIci is that is uses 30pin non > parity simms, which are starting to be harder and harder to find > inexpensively. The IIci *might* be able to work with parity simms, not > sure (early macs could NOT, but some of the later ones IIRC could use > parity or non parity) It should be happy with parity. Note that some unlucky people have ended up with a less common variant of the IIci that *requires* parity RAM. To check if you have one of these units, look for the 'parity' label on the motherboard and see if there is a chip there. If it is, hope you have parity RAM on hand, because that unit will not work without it. Fortunately, the vast preponderance of IIcis don't care what type of RAM they get. > As far as what to offer... as little as you can get away with. The > machine is decent, but at this point, low end PPCs are winding up in > dumpsters. So unless you WANT the IIci compared to you just want A > useable mac... I wouldn't pay much more than about $10. The IIci does have several things going for it over most other classic Macs: it has three NuBus slots, plus a PDS slot; it takes a lot more RAM; it can comfortably hold a half-height SCSI without overheating; and it has an FPU on-board. It is also compact and easy to find parts for. The IIcis I own have been worth their weight in gold. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Intel outside -- 6502 inside! ---------------------------------------------- From mythtech at Mac.com Sun Jan 13 22:53:31 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: Mac IIci Message-ID: >Can I use my 9 pin parity simms from my old 386? The parity bits are >just ignored right? If so, then I can drop 32megs into it. I just scanned apple's TIL, and it looks as though Parity chips are ok on the IIci. I base this off an article discussing the fact that it needs FPM memory 80ns or faster (the article indicates that pretty much all 30 pin chips 80ns or faster will be FPM). It lists a few part numbers for ram upgrades offered by apple... two of them are Parity chip packages. So if apple is telling you that those are available as upgrades for the IIci, I have to assume parity memory will be just fine. And the IIci will handle a max of 128mb (8 - 16mb chips). You must install RAM in groups of 4 however (and I am fairly sure all ram in a grouped bank must be the same type, so either all parity, or all non parity) -chris From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jan 13 23:18:48 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: Mac IIci References: Message-ID: <3C426A38.54D3D028@internet1.net> I wish I had some 16meg simms..... I would have put 256megs in my 386 :-) Yes my 386 had 16 simm slots, and would take more than 32 megs! I think I may stop back by Goodwill tomorrow again. If I can get them to agree to a decent price I'll go for it. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Chris wrote: > > >Can I use my 9 pin parity simms from my old 386? The parity bits are > >just ignored right? If so, then I can drop 32megs into it. > > I just scanned apple's TIL, and it looks as though Parity chips are ok on > the IIci. I base this off an article discussing the fact that it needs > FPM memory 80ns or faster (the article indicates that pretty much all 30 > pin chips 80ns or faster will be FPM). It lists a few part numbers for > ram upgrades offered by apple... two of them are Parity chip packages. So > if apple is telling you that those are available as upgrades for the > IIci, I have to assume parity memory will be just fine. > > And the IIci will handle a max of 128mb (8 - 16mb chips). You must > install RAM in groups of 4 however (and I am fairly sure all ram in a > grouped bank must be the same type, so either all parity, or all non > parity) > > -chris > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Jan 13 23:23:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: Mac IIci In-Reply-To: from Chris at "Jan 13, 2 11:53:31 pm" Message-ID: <200201140523.VAA26676@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > And the IIci will handle a max of 128mb (8 - 16mb chips). You must > install RAM in groups of 4 however (and I am fairly sure all ram in a > grouped bank must be the same type, so either all parity, or all non > parity) It is also worth noting that with a full 128MB installed, the on-boot RAM test takes a considerable amount of time, something like over two minutes :-) My NetBSD IIci, even with a Daystar 50MHz accelerator, still takes 'forever' to cold start with its RAM fully loaded out. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Everything is permissible, but not everything is expedient. -- 1 Cor 6:12 -- From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Sun Jan 13 23:00:03 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: Mac IIci In-Reply-To: <3C41F64F.6F2AB37F@internet1.net> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020114155752.0217ad88@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 04:04 PM 13/01/2002 -0500, Chad Fernandez wrote: >Pat Finnegan wrote: > > I got mine for free from a dumpster, but if it works, about $10-$20 would > > be a reasonable price, depending on how much you want to spend, and the > > size of its hdd, memory, any extra cards in it, etc. I still have some 1M > > 30pin MAC-blessed SIMMs laying around here, email me off-list if you want > > any. > >Can I use my 9 pin parity simms from my old 386? The parity bits are >just ignored right? If so, then I can drop 32megs into it. Does anyone know what the maximum memory you can put in a IIcx (I suspect that the answer is the same as a IIci). I've got a IIcx that I paid far too much for when it was new (say $10K) and it's only got 8Mb. If I could upgrade to more memory it might be worthwhile turning it on again and running A/UX (this corresponded to about $3K of the cost with another $2.5K being the 300Mb SCSI disk drive). Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From mythtech at Mac.com Sun Jan 13 23:37:36 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: Mac IIci Message-ID: >Does anyone know what the maximum memory you can put in a IIcx (I suspect >that >the answer is the same as a IIci). I've got a IIcx that I paid far too >much for >when it was new (say $10K) and it's only got 8Mb. If I could upgrade to >more memory >it might be worthwhile turning it on again and running A/UX (this >corresponded to >about $3K of the cost with another $2.5K being the 300Mb SCSI disk drive). 128mb For this and other bits of Mac hardware info, go to the souce and check Apple's spec list at . -chris From mythtech at Mac.com Sun Jan 13 23:40:19 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: Mac IIci Message-ID: >It is also worth noting that with a full 128MB installed, the on-boot >RAM test takes a considerable amount of time, something like over two >minutes YIKES! Is the disable startup ram test option in the memory control panel as early as 7.6? or did it first appear in 8.0? (7.6.1 is the latest the IIci can handle... to check for the disable feature, open the memory control panel while holding down option, an extra choice will appear at the bottom allowing you to disable the startup ram test) -chris From mythtech at Mac.com Sun Jan 13 23:42:47 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: Mac IIci Message-ID: >It should be happy with parity. Note that some unlucky people have ended >up with a less common variant of the IIci that *requires* parity RAM. To >check if you have one of these units, look for the 'parity' label on the >motherboard and see if there is a chip there. If it is, hope you have >parity RAM on hand, because that unit will not work without it. Fortunately, >the vast preponderance of IIcis don't care what type of RAM they get. There is a similar build of the IIfx... I saw a tech note on it while perusing the TIL earlier... it seemed to imply that it was done for some government spec reason, and was only issued to government sales... but that was just implied, not actually stated, so who knows if they were released to the public as well (or if some of those government ones made it into the private sector) -chris From mythtech at Mac.com Sun Jan 13 23:37:07 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) Message-ID: >It's a pity that Apple didn't decide to have wireless keyboard and mouse >for the new iMAC. That was my personal only complaint with the new iMac. If they had a wireless keyboard with built in track pad... I would have considered it perfect. (Despite that ommision, I still want one) But I figured I was just being too picky... but while sitting at my parents house this evening, I was talking about the new iMac, and my Mother of all people piped up and said they should have given it a wireless keyboard. Her only look at it was the Time magazine article, her complaint was, it was perfect for the end table, except for the "tangle of wires" needed for the keyboard and mouse. So if my mother could see this as a problem, why couldn't Jobs? -chris From dittman at dittman.net Mon Jan 14 00:01:03 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: Mac IIci In-Reply-To: from "Chris" at Jan 14, 2002 12:42:47 AM Message-ID: <200201140601.g0E613s18739@narnia.int.dittman.net> > There is a similar build of the IIfx... I saw a tech note on it while > perusing the TIL earlier... it seemed to imply that it was done for some > government spec reason, and was only issued to government sales... but > that was just implied, not actually stated, so who knows if they were > released to the public as well (or if some of those government ones made > it into the private sector) The parity-enabled versions of the IIci and IIfx were available to the general public as a special order item. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Jan 14 00:19:34 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: Mac IIci In-Reply-To: <3C426A38.54D3D028@internet1.net> Message-ID: <200201140619.AAA00070@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > I wish I had some 16meg simms..... I would have put 256megs in my 386 > :-) Yes my 386 had 16 simm slots, and would take more than 32 megs! > > I think I may stop back by Goodwill tomorrow again. If I can get them > to agree to a decent price I'll go for it. Well, make sure to look inside. Complain about not having all the simm slots filled, and that those simms look like 1 meg simms, etc. And be sure to examine those simm slots carefully, do they have metal tabs on the ends (if its just plastic, well, those break extremely easy when you're trying to replace the simms, and possibly someone else has already broken a few off). Look at the hard drive carefully, its probably extremely small. Or it may be a Rodime, which is what the original drives were in the Ci's we had, and they were SCSI 1 drives and quite slow. I think the hard drives we had were either 85 Meg Quantums, or 100 meg Rodimes. Does it come with the cache card installed? Be sure to grumble about how slow they are without that card... Good Luck, and remember you can always buy one on ebay. I see one on there for $10 with cache card monitor and such, and noone is bidding... -Lawrence LeMay From vance at ikickass.org Mon Jan 14 00:24:04 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: Mac IIci In-Reply-To: <200201132149.g0DLnZw17373@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: But A/UX sucks humongous hairy sweaty donkey balls. Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 15:49:35 -0600 (CST) > From: Eric Dittman > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Mac IIci > > > > (If desired) > > > you can put an older verions of MkLinux or linux-m68k on it > > > (I used the m68k Debian port). > > NetBSD mac68k will run fine on it. (At least it runs fine on my IIci. > > :-) ) > > Perhaps A/UX is an other option. > > A/UX will run on a IIci. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ > From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Mon Jan 14 00:44:58 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: Mac IIci In-Reply-To: References: <200201132149.g0DLnZw17373@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020114174115.0217ad88@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 01:24 AM 14/01/2002 -0500, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: >But A/UX sucks humongous hairy sweaty donkey balls. Them's fighting words :-) My first Unix workstation was a Mac IIcx running A/UX version 1.something. Given what Apple was trying to achieve this wasn't a bad first effort. Version 2 was more than usable, if you wanted you could hide most of Unix behind a Mac interface (sounds a lot like OS X to me :-). I never upgraded to A/UX version 3 (by this stage I'd moved the Mac home and had upgraded to a Personal DECstation). In all the years of hacking with the Mac I don't recall ever crashing A/UX and after a while there were lots of standard Unix applications ported across. I must admit I stopped using the finder and just started X11 but that was a personal preference. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Jan 14 00:24:32 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) In-Reply-To: <20020114053557.66993.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200201140624.AAA00143@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > --- Eric Chomko wrote: > > Yes, and the 80186 -- 68010. > > Both existed but were not popular in many systems. Both equally > > quite rare in that regard. > > I suppose the 68000 and 68020 were bigger sellers than the 68010, but > they were a favorite "upgrade" for the Amiga 1000 owner who wanted > to squeeze another 3% out of their box ("loop mode" one-instruction > cache accounted for most of that). They appeared in early UNIX > workstations (NCR Tower, perhaps?) because they could reasonably > handle demand-paged virtual memory (much cleaner than some of the > schemes for the 68000 itself). > > I've always liked the 68010. Got a few, 'cause we put them into the > final rev of COMBOARD, the VAXBI COMBOARD. > > -ethan > Apparently all the original Sun Microsystems Sun 1's were upgraded by Sun with 68010's, and my Sun 1/100U's have 68010 of course. They only made about 600 units of the Sun 1 series though, since they were already developing the Sun 2 series at the time. -Lawrence LeMay From red at bears.org Mon Jan 14 00:48:41 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) In-Reply-To: <200201140624.AAA00143@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > Apparently all the original Sun Microsystems Sun 1's were upgraded by > Sun with 68010's, and my Sun 1/100U's have 68010 of course. They > only made about 600 units of the Sun 1 series though, since they were > already developing the Sun 2 series at the time. Dang, *envy*. I've lusted in my heart after a Sun 1 for a long time. I support serious (modern) Sun hardware for a living, and thus Sun history is of particular interest... ok r. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 14 01:00:06 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020114070006.36786.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> --- "r. 'bear' stricklin" wrote: > On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > ...They only made about 600 units of the Sun 1 series though, since > > they were already developing the Sun 2 series at the time. > > Dang, *envy*. I've lusted in my heart after a Sun 1 for a long time. I > support serious (modern) Sun hardware for a living, and thus Sun history > is of particular interest... Me, too. By the time I first touched a Sun in college, the Sun3s were what they were buying. My personal first was a SPARCstation1 I picked up for about $800 in 1993 or 1994. Dropped much more than that on RAM and a 1.8Gb SCSI drive to make it "useful". Through rolling upgrades, that corner of the room is now occupied by a SPARC5 w/256Mb of RAM and about 20Gb of SCSI disk that cost much less than any single component of its ancestor. Ah... progress... My oldest Sun at the moment is a Sun3/50. I probably won't be able to top that for a long time. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From tarsi at binhost.com Mon Jan 14 00:39:06 2002 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: A story Message-ID: <02011400390604.00257@simon> Hi, folks. A story for you. A long time ago and not so far away, a small town church obtained it's first computer. An IBM PS/2, quite sophisticated for the day. It was in the secretary's office for use of keeping budget and some word processing. As luck would have it, a young boy was around when his father was working on the computer. He must have been around 12 or 13. His father got to work on the computer because he was treasurer. The boy was jealous, a toy! A toy with lights and whirring sounds and computer sophistication, similar to the Apple computers that he had known so well from school. The boy wanted to touch the computer, but knew better. Sort of. The boy touched it once when his father was away and the office was open. He started up the fancy computer and looked as it powered up. He was very impressed. He looked through the manuals. He tried to run some software. He marveled at this wonder of technology. Fast forward to 2002. The same boy and a friend of his had gone to a town quite far from the church to have some Chinese food and catch up with each others' lives. Now being grown up, the boy still had a great liking for old computer toys and things. Being bored, the two friends went to the local Goodwill to look around and see what there was. Back in the corner on a table was a small computer system, quite old. It didn't have much with it, just the computer, a monitor, and a keyboard. However, the boy didn't have this type of computer in his collection yet, so he went to the local ATM and got some cash, came back, and bought the computer. Bring this computer home, it sat in the corner for some time, preempted by some other computer hardware, for the boy had a large collection. One night, being quite productive, the boy decided to boot up this $10 computer and see what was on it. The boy knew very little of what he would find hidden in the secrets of the hard drive of this computer. For the new, fancy computer that the church had purchased and the little boy had marveled over so long ago had served its time, and had been replaced. It went to a number of other people, the files left on its hard drive a testament to the movement of the computer. And eventually, the computer came to be donated to a Goodwill and put up for sale. The boy, Nathan Pralle, found that the computer he had admired so long ago was sitting before him. Indeed, the very first PC he had ever touched, the one at Trinity Lutheran Church in Hampton, IA, and one which had contributed to his becoming a computer programmer, was now sitting on the floor of his very living room, about to become part of his computer collection. An IBM PS/2 Model 30. And now you know the rest of the story. (I love this hobby.) :) Nathan 210 -- ---------------------------------------------- Homepage: http://tarsi.binhost.com binHOST.com: http://www.binhost.com Forever Beyond: http://www.foreverbeyond.org ---------------------------------------------- From vance at ikickass.org Mon Jan 14 01:04:17 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: A story In-Reply-To: <02011400390604.00257@simon> Message-ID: How far were you from that Church when you found it? Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Tarsi wrote: > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 00:39:06 -0600 > From: Tarsi > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: A story > > Hi, folks. A story for you. > > A long time ago and not so far away, a small town church obtained it's first > computer. An IBM PS/2, quite sophisticated for the day. It was in the > secretary's office for use of keeping budget and some word processing. > > As luck would have it, a young boy was around when his father was working on > the computer. He must have been around 12 or 13. His father got to work on > the computer because he was treasurer. The boy was jealous, a toy! A toy > with lights and whirring sounds and computer sophistication, similar to the > Apple computers that he had known so well from school. The boy wanted to > touch the computer, but knew better. > > Sort of. > > The boy touched it once when his father was away and the office was open. He > started up the fancy computer and looked as it powered up. He was very > impressed. He looked through the manuals. He tried to run some software. > He marveled at this wonder of technology. > > Fast forward to 2002. > > The same boy and a friend of his had gone to a town quite far from the church > to have some Chinese food and catch up with each others' lives. Now being > grown up, the boy still had a great liking for old computer toys and things. > Being bored, the two friends went to the local Goodwill to look around and > see what there was. > > Back in the corner on a table was a small computer system, quite old. It > didn't have much with it, just the computer, a monitor, and a keyboard. > However, the boy didn't have this type of computer in his collection yet, so > he went to the local ATM and got some cash, came back, and bought the > computer. > > Bring this computer home, it sat in the corner for some time, preempted by > some other computer hardware, for the boy had a large collection. One night, > being quite productive, the boy decided to boot up this $10 computer and see > what was on it. > > The boy knew very little of what he would find hidden in the secrets of the > hard drive of this computer. For the new, fancy computer that the church had > purchased and the little boy had marveled over so long ago had served its > time, and had been replaced. It went to a number of other people, the files > left on its hard drive a testament to the movement of the computer. And > eventually, the computer came to be donated to a Goodwill and put up for sale. > > The boy, Nathan Pralle, found that the computer he had admired so long ago > was sitting before him. Indeed, the very first PC he had ever touched, the > one at Trinity Lutheran Church in Hampton, IA, and one which had contributed > to his becoming a computer programmer, was now sitting on the floor of his > very living room, about to become part of his computer collection. An IBM > PS/2 Model 30. > > And now you know the rest of the story. > > (I love this hobby.) > > :) > > Nathan > 210 > > > > -- > ---------------------------------------------- > Homepage: http://tarsi.binhost.com > binHOST.com: http://www.binhost.com > Forever Beyond: http://www.foreverbeyond.org > ---------------------------------------------- > From tarsi at binhost.com Mon Jan 14 01:28:05 2002 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: A story In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02011401280507.00257@simon> The computer had migrated to the Goodwill in Mason City, which is about 35 miles from Hampton, the place where the church was (is). I'm so happy about this one. Lots of people talk about their first computer they had. Well, I didn't have this one back then, but it was the first PC I ever touched, so that's something. Tarsi 210 On Monday 14 January 2002 01:04, you scribbled to the masses: > How far were you from that Church when you found it? > > Peace... Sridhar > From mhstein at canada.com Mon Jan 14 01:14:30 2002 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: AIM65 RAM - Help? Message-ID: <01C19CA1.362756A0@mse-d03> Does anybody have a schematic or at least the DIP switch settings for a late model AIM65 with the two 28-pin RAM/EPROM sockets (not 8 x 2114)? Help would be greatly appreciated; thanks. mike From dpeschel at eskimo.com Mon Jan 14 01:50:05 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: The STC ZEBRA and CPU meters Message-ID: <20020113235005.A23948@eskimo.eskimo.com> Thread crossing alert... Since the ZEBRA used a drum for storage, most instructions had to wait for the drum to rotate into position, so one instruction takes a variable amount of time. And so the computer had a moving-needle efficiency meter on the front panel, which presumably integrated a series of pulses (similar to the circuit Tony described earlier). Or I suppose it could have divided the rate of instruction execution by the rate of drum rotation (since there was a timing track on the drum anyway). 100% efficiency was attainable but only by simple programs such as a parity check of the drum. It also had a telephone dial, sense switches, the usual memory-tweaking switches, and a register display. In the second-generation (transistor) machine, the register display was a CRT. In the first-generation (tube) machine the register display was a bunch of Magic Eye units IIRC. -- Derek From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 14 02:14:09 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: A story In-Reply-To: <02011401280507.00257@simon> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Tarsi wrote: > The computer had migrated to the Goodwill in Mason City, which is about 35 > miles from Hampton, the place where the church was (is). > > I'm so happy about this one. Lots of people talk about their first computer > they had. Well, I didn't have this one back then, but it was the first PC I > ever touched, so that's something. I sure wish I could find my C64 that I had when I was younger. My parents got rid of it since they didn't think I would want it. It was a very complete C64 compared to most. It had the system unit, 2 floppy drives, the Commodore monitor, cassette drive and a Star printer. Last time I saw the machine, my uncle had it up in Chico Texas. He had also acquired another bare C64 system unit. I asked him about it a year ago, and he told me his family had given it to a church up there. I don't know what happened to it after that. Maybe it will turn up again some day :/ -Toth From enrico.badella at softstar.it Mon Jan 14 02:22:19 2002 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: WTB: Data General DG/20 References: <200201130730.g0D7Ur077156@bg-tc-ppp405.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <3C42953B.9D3DE739@softstar.it> Hello, I'm urgently looking for one or more Data General DG/20 systems better if in working conditions but will also consider dead ones as source for spare parts. Why? A friend has four of these in a production line, one has just died and there seems to be not viable solutions in a short period od time. Please email me if you have such beasts and willing to part from it for $$$ or trade. TIA e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 14 03:22:54 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: Prophylactic replacement of electrolytic capacitors? In-Reply-To: "Louis Schulman" "Prophylactic replacement of electrolytic capacitors?" (Jan 13, 21:27) References: Message-ID: <10201140922.ZM3796@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 13, 21:27, Louis Schulman wrote: > Old computer power supplies generally have big old electrolytic capacitors. When these go bad, they can > cause real problems, and damage other components. > > The literature indicates that many of these only have a working life of 2000 hrs., or a shelf life of ten years. > Obviously, this will be exceeded in old computers. I think you may have lost a digit off the working life, Louis, at least if you're referring to the sort of electrolytics found in PSUs :-) > So, should these be replaced if they exceed a certain age? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. As always, there's an exception to prove the rule. If one of a pair goes, it may be worth replacing both to get the values to match. Or in some PSUs, if one or more fails, they may all have got too hot or dried out, and at least for small ones (relatively inexpensive), I tend to replace the lot. In any case, check the others, they may be on their way to join it. The working life is an estimate based on mean time between failures (MTBF). All this says is that for a large sample, it is statistically likely that a certain proprtion will fail in a certain time. Variation can be enormous. > For the screw terminal type, is it necessary to > use "computer grade" capacitors, which can be fairly expensive? Depends. The more expensive ones may differ in a few ways: -- lower ESR and/or higher ripple current tolerance. This means they won't waste so much energy (and heat up) if used in a PSU delivering a high current. -- higher temperature rating. PSUs often get rather warm, and the higher temperature rating makes them less prone to drying out. -- longer working life (related to temperature and other factors). If one can't find the right value in the right > size package, how much extra capacitance is acceptable? Electrolytics often have a wide manufacturing tolerance. -20%+50% is still not unusual. If it's just a filter capacitor I'd say up to 2x is acceptable. The real issue is likely to be cost. Also bear in mind that a capacitor of the same size but a higher capacitance may have other differences, like ripple current rating. I recently replaced a pair of 7700mfd caps in a DEC PSU; I could only get 10000mfd in the right size. In capacitor terms, that's close enough to be considered a match. > And any higher working voltage rating is OK? Yes. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jan 14 03:16:02 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: Tallgrass Technologies TG-1140 Message-ID: Anybody know anything about a Tallgrass Technologies TG-1140 Tape Storage System? Apparently takes 40MB cartridge tapes. The guy who has it thinks it was built about 1988. I don't have access to it, so that's all the info I have. Yeah, I know. Tony Duell has all the manuals.... :^) Doc From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Mon Jan 14 04:35:07 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: Atari games in limestone cavern Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021A1B@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> Thanks folks :) > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Nadeau [mailto:menadeau@mediaone.net] > Sent: 11 January 2002 23:54 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Atari games in limestone cavern > > > It's O'Shea Ltd. at www.oshealtd.com. > > --Mike > > Michael Nadeau > Editor/Publisher > Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource > www.classictechpub.com > 603-893-2379 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Adrian Graham" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 6:45 PM > Subject: Atari games in limestone cavern > > > > Odd subject I know, but sometime last year there was a > story of a guy in > > California (ish) who had 2 million Atari 2600/7800 games in a cavern > > somewhere and he was selling them for $2 a pop..... > > > > Anyone got a link to him? > > > > also, anyone got a spare boxed Magnavox Oddysey they'd like > to pass on > > to a UK computer museum? :) I'm talking money > here....though donations > > are always welcome! > > > > -- > > witchy/adrian > > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans > > Linux Powered! > > > > > From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Mon Jan 14 05:25:25 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: The STC ZEBRA and CPU meters In-Reply-To: <20020113235005.A23948@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020114221759.0217ad88@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 11:50 PM 13/01/2002 -0800, Derek Peschel wrote: >And so the computer had a moving-needle efficiency meter on the front panel, >which presumably integrated a series of pulses (similar to the circuit >Tony described earlier). Or I suppose it could have divided the rate >of instruction execution by the rate of drum rotation (since there was >a timing track on the drum anyway). 100% efficiency was attainable >but only by simple programs such as a parity check of the drum. A lot of work was done with drum based machines to optimize the layout of instructions on the drum to ensure that the next instruction would be coming up real soon now on the drum. I suspect that this was all done manually - these days it would just be another task for the compiler :-) Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From jhfine at idirect.com Mon Jan 14 09:18:38 2002 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: A story References: <02011401280507.00257@simon> Message-ID: <3C42F6CE.EAB8390D@idirect.com> >Tarsi wrote: > The computer had migrated to the Goodwill in Mason City, which is about 35 > miles from Hampton, the place where the church was (is). > I'm so happy about this one. Lots of people talk about their first computer > they had. Well, I didn't have this one back then, but it was the first PC I > ever touched, so that's something. > Tarsi > 210 What year did you first use the PC? My son remembers going to work with me about 20 years ago and using the computer there (obviously a PDP-11 running RT-11) to play SST (Super Star Trek). He is now 33, so he was then about the same age as you were when you touched that first PC. I was 43 at the time and had already been woking with computers for over 20 years even back then. Around 1980, the DEC computers with a hard disk drive were still quite large, but they did have a VT103 which was a VT100 with the backplane that could hold a PDP-11. Of course, the early VT103 used a floppy. I don't think that I ever saw another VT103 with the hard drive (an RD53 in that case) under the VT100 tube. DSD did make an 880/30 what was a 30 MBytye hard drive (emulated 3 * RL02s) plus an RX03 in a 19" wide box and about 5" high. If a user had the backplane wired for 22 bits, then it could use all 4 MBytes of memory. Together with an 11/73, that made quite a system. Did anyone else ever soup up their VT103? From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Jan 14 10:07:28 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: A story In-Reply-To: <02011400390604.00257@simon> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020114100557.02e2aed0@pc> At 12:39 AM 1/14/2002 -0600, Tarsi wrote: >Hi, folks. A story for you. A year or so ago, I found a stack of magtapes for sale that I'd used about 17 years before. I bought them, and they still had save-sets from when I'd used them. They must've been sitting in a closet at the University. - John From donm at cts.com Mon Jan 14 13:06:51 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: A story In-Reply-To: <02011401280507.00257@simon> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Tarsi wrote: > The computer had migrated to the Goodwill in Mason City, which is about 35 > miles from Hampton, the place where the church was (is). > > I'm so happy about this one. Lots of people talk about their first computer > they had. Well, I didn't have this one back then, but it was the first PC I > ever touched, so that's something. So, what about those "...Apples that he'd known so well from school..."? - don > Tarsi > 210 > > On Monday 14 January 2002 01:04, you scribbled to the masses: > > How far were you from that Church when you found it? > > > > Peace... Sridhar > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 14 13:16:07 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (longish) In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Jan 13, 2 06:53:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4388 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020114/b1069ceb/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 14 16:09:15 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (longish) In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (longish)" (Jan 14, 19:16) References: Message-ID: <10201142209.ZM4519@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 14, 19:16, Tony Duell wrote: > Read that as 2SB1243 -- which is not in 'Towers International Transistor > Selector'. No, but it's in my Japanese transistor book (I can't tell you the proper title because it's in Japanese :-)) Yes, it's a PNP power trannie, in an ATV package, which is a bit like a TO220 but without the metal tab. It has a beveled edge on the front top, instead of a metal tab on the back. Vcbo -60V Vceo -50V Ic(max) -3A Pc 1W Icbo -10microA Vcb -40V hFE min 56 max 390 at Vce=-3V Ic -0.5A Vce(sat) -1V Vbe(sat) -1.5V Ft 100MHz Pin order is ECB (opposite of the common TO220). Near equivalent 2SD1864. > I am pretty sure 2SB numbers are 'power' PNP transistors. In which case > I'd expect the emitter to go to a +ve supply line and the collector to go > to the printhead pin. If it's a TO220 package, then it's a good bet the > pinout is : > > > ------------- > | | |------------- emitter > | O | |------------- collector > | | |------------- base > ------------- -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From CLeyson at aol.com Mon Jan 14 14:43:16 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (longish) Message-ID: www.rohm.com/products/databook/tr/pdf/2sb1184.pdf for 2SB1243 data sheet. Same device, different package. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 14 13:34:50 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: 8" Disk drives In-Reply-To: <000901c19ca6$ee3f13e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jan 13, 2 07:55:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1753 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020114/cdfdd57e/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jan 14 15:06:50 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: 8" Disk drives References: Message-ID: <003d01c19d40$e0100aa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> THe trouble comes in trying to bind the requirements outlined in many disk controller manuals with the jumpering schemes on one drive type, often not the one you have, to the meaning of those jumpering option so you can translate that into equivalent jumpering on another drive type not on the list of drives for which there are jumperings specified by the controller manufacturer. The defaults tend, generally, to be equivalent, but the various controller makers tended to opt for configurations that made their particular controller work better, or what they so deemed, than some other controllers. This can lead to severe confusion if the "definitions" of those options are not characterized. Once some drives started using microcontrollers or other LSI's for their devices, things became murkier. Often it was possible to divine what a given jumper was supposed to do by looking at the similarly named jumper on a previous model of drive, but that didn't always work. more below ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 12:34 PM Subject: Re: 8" Disk drives > > > > Did the CDC/MPI Hardware Maintenance Manual include the jumper options and > > setup details? I recall that the Mitsubishi, Shugart, and Qume maintenance > > Sort-of. It tells you which of the factory-set jumpers are fitted for > each version of the logic board. It also points you to the right page of > the schmatics for setting things like the drive select jumpers. > > > > manuals didn't, and the Siemens, though they showed the various circuits, > > didn't explain what they did. The one most often needed is the OEM manual. > > That's the one with the installation and setup data, as well as the spec's. > > On these drives, the logic is almost all simple TTL. It's easy to work > out what most of the jumpers do from the schematics (which are in the > maintenance manual). To be honest I'd rather have the schematics (from > which I can work out the jumper settings) than a table of jumper settings > (from which I can't work out the schematics). > > The really annoying ones at the modern-ish Teac manuals. On those drives > there's one big ASIC for everything. Jumpers just connect pins of it > together, or pins of it to external connector pins. So it's impossible to > work out what they do, even with the schematics. And Teac don't include > the jumper table in the manual. > Well, they do LIST the jumpers, but they don't tell you what they're intended to do for you. > > > > > Those are lots more common than the maintenance manuals as well. > > I've never seen the OEM manual for any of the drives I work with. I've > seen references to it in the maintenance manaul, so it must have existed, > but the maintenance manuals are a lot more common over here. > > > > > If you need the maintenance manual, you're in BIG trouble, particularly if you > > haven't got it. > > Well, most electronic faults are not hard to put right on these drives > given the schematics.... > > -tony > > From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Jan 14 14:54:16 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: 8" Disk drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > One quick question, are those normal or inverted signals? The PC floppy > > Active-low (inverted, -ve logic, whatever you call it) > > > adaptor seems to have all negative logic (inverted) signals. If they're > > really negative logic, it'll be possible to rewire a cable pretty easily, > > otherwise I'll need to put some inverting buffers on it. > > No, it's just a cable. The only issues are : > > 1) The data rate is 500kbps (same as a HD PC drive) in DD mode, so you > can't use an XT controller (not that you'd want to...) > > 2) The Low Current signal. This is a reduce-write-current input that > should be asserted (pulled low) when writing to tracks >43. Most PC > controllers can't supply that signal directly. If you're just wanting to > read disks, then it's not important, though. > > 3) Many PC controllers have problems with single-density operation... > OK, A couple more issues I wanted to ask about: 1) Should I use "Read Data Composite" or "Read Data Separated"? What's the difference? 2) Do I need to do anything with the "Clock Separated"? I'm guessing that's an output that goes with the Read Data Composite/Separated outputs 3) Can I just connect the 'head load' to 'ready' or is 'ready' dependant upon the heads being loaded? Thanks a TON for the info! -- Pat > -tony > From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jan 14 16:53:00 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: [OT] 5" and 6" CRTs needed... In-Reply-To: <003e01c19d40$e0426540$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: I'm in dire need of a couple VGA 5" and 6" displays. Mono is acceptable. I'd like to find them used (but not badly burned) since the cost for them new is pretty high. If you've got some or have a source, please let me know off list. (I doubt this would interest anyone else) Thanks! g. -- http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. From mranalog at attbi.com Mon Jan 14 14:02:48 2002 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: Creating PDF's from scanned image files Message-ID: <3C433968.3665114E@attbi.com> I'm getting closer to a real PDF file!!! <<<>>>>>> First, here is my notes on converting an JPG image to a G4 TIF image in Windows: ------ Converting to G4 TIF -------------- In Win95/98/NT, path to follow is: Start -> Programs -> Accessories -> Imaging In Win95, the program is called Wang Imaging and is usually found in c:\windows\wangimg.exe. In Win 98, the program is called Kodak Imaging and is usually found in c:\windows\kodakimg.exe. In Win NT, the program is called Wang Imaging and is usually found in c:\Program Files\Windows NT\Accessories\ImageVue\wangimg.exe. Now since I'm running Win98, the following is dealing with Kodak Imaging. After kodakimg.exe starts I load a .JPG file: File -> Open In my example the file is 8.5x11 300dpi 8bit(256 shades) grayscale. Then I copy the file to the scrapbook: Edit -> Copy Page Then I create a NEW image with G4 compression: File -> New *File Type tab - check "TIFF document(TIFF)" *Compression tab - Pull down "Compression" and select "CCITT Group 4 (2d) fax". (This changes the Color tab selection to "Black and White"). *Resolution tab - I set pull down "Resolution" to "300 x 300 dpi". *Size tab - Defaults to 8.5x11 Click "OK" Then I paste the scrapbook image into the NEW image: Edit -> Paste The 8bit gray image is now a bitmap. You can check the image's properties at any time: Page -> Properties Then just save the file: File -> Save As Set the filename and click "Save" --------------------------------------------------- This converted a 2,851KB 8bit JPEG to a 448KB bitmap TIFF file. I can also scan and create multi-page TIFF files with this program. <<<>>>>>> Hans turned me onto IMG2PDF for windows (demo version on the Web). But I must have screwed up the installation. It produced a 6 page PDF file but the pages were all blank and the file was 4K in size!! Now I downloaded the demo version of TIF2PDF from the same company (Excel Info Tech, Inc.). The program installed fine and it created a beautiful 6 page PDF file that is 1,669K (Much better that 15MB). The problem is that the demo version inserts "Copyright of Excel Info Tech, Inc." in red across each page of the PDF!!! And for some reason it insert the pages in the order 2,3,4,5,1,6. If I create a three page PDF, it inserts the pages in the order 2,1,3. Regards, --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog Analogrechner, calculateur analogique, calcolatore analogico, analoogrekenaar, komputer analogowy, analog bilgisayar, kampiutere ghiyasi, analoge computer. ========================================= From celigne at tinyworld.co.uk Mon Jan 14 15:05:57 2002 From: celigne at tinyworld.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: Creating PDF's from scanned image files References: <3C433968.3665114E@attbi.com> Message-ID: <3C434835.CF5FCC15@tinyworld.co.uk> Doug Coward wrote: > > First, here is my notes on converting an > JPG image to a G4 TIF image in Windows: "If I wanted to go there, I wouldn't start from here". Unless you have no scanner and have obtained these JPEG files from someone else, there is no point in saving your scans as JPEG in the first place. I just scan straight to 300dpi bilevel TIFFs. > Hans turned me onto IMG2PDF for windows (demo version > on the Web). But I must have screwed up the > installation. It produced a 6 page PDF file but the > pages were all blank and the file was 4K in size!! I had a similar problem when importing TIFFs into Acrobat. The problem turned out to be that the 300dpi TIFFs had been erroneously labelled as 72dpi (by Paint Shop Pro, I think). Acrobat choked when it thought it would have to produce a page size of about 35" by 45". From kapteynr at cboe.com Mon Jan 14 16:28:26 2002 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available Message-ID: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF0CE02B57@msx1.cboe.com> Finally -- a nice haul in my area. BUT I WAS ON VACATION !!!! Is any of this still available ? It ALL looks interesting to me. I am in Chicago and I have a truck, and a lot of storage space (with loading dock). -Rob -----Original Message----- From: Jon Auringer [SMTP:auringer@tds.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 6:53 AM To: Classic Computer Mailing List Subject: VAX 11/780s - Masscomp - Valid equipment available Hello all, Along with the Astronautics ZS-1 machines I posted about earlier, we have some other equipment available. I have someone interested in one of the 11/780 machines and possible others. As with the ZS-1 machines, the time frame isn't very long. Again, we are closing this facility and the equipment will be scrapped if not rescued. 1 DEC 11/780 (3 wide cabinet) currently up and running 4.2 BSD 3rd cabinet has a Ven-tel plugin modem rack w/~10 modems 1 rack containing 4 Fujitsu Eagle drives (one drive is off-line due to increasing errors) 1 Fujitsu 9-track tape drive in 2 wide cabinet (not quite as tall as the VAX cabinet)(This is a nice auto loading drive, there is a second one available with two drives from a non-VAX system) 1 DEC TE16 9-track tape drive (1 wide cabinet) 1 Fujitsu line printer 1 DECWRITER III printing terminal as console 1 DEC 11/780 (3 wide cabinet) currently down but was running fine when turned off (VMS) 3 DEC RP07 drives (each the size of a washing machine on steroids!) 1 DEC TU78 9-track tape drive 1 Scicards design station (This is a dedicated color graphics terminal used for printed circuit board (PCB) layout) I am told the tube was a little on the fuzzy side. 1 Benson photo plotter (we used this exclusively to print out PCB artwork for checking) 1 Dataproducts line printer 1 DECWRITER III printing terminal as console 3 Valid Systems m68k based Multibus systems. Each system has several dedicated mono graphics cards to drive multiple design stations. Each system is in a half-height rack which contains the Multibus rack, an 8" Fujitsu fixed disk drive and the slot loading 9-track tape drive. I am unsure of the status of these systems. I believe they were running when shut down, but I have doubts about the drives. 6 or more of the Valid Scaldstation design stations. Each includes a table with built-in digitizer and a 19" green monochrome graphics monitor. These systems were used primarily for schematic capture, but ran a full blown UNIX, so I always enjoyed reading news on the "big screen". :) 1 Masscomp m68k based system This system is also Multibus based and resides in a pair of 5' high racks. One rack contains the multibus chassis and a pair of Fujitsu drives. The second rack houses the 9-track tape drive and a third 8" Fujitsu drive. This machine was only lightly used when I signed on in 1989, and shut down shortly thereafter. I have gotten it up and running RTU on its ST-506 boot drive, but haven't managed to get the Fujitsus online. 7 Masscomp MC-500 deskside chassis These are also Multibus based m68k systems. These run the same OS as systems above. They have an internal 5-1/4" floppy and ST-506 fixed drive. There are a bunch of the monochrome graphics tubes that go along with these units. Actually, it appears like each chassis is designed to drive a pair of the graphics terminals. I have one of these boxes that I did a clean install of the RTU OS. The other 6 are in varying states of repair. I think there are enough bits to assemble at least 3 more complete systems. 2 DEC MicroVax II in a 19" There is also a rack mounted chassis with a pair of SMD drives. Each of the MVII has a SMD controller card. Both of the boot drives are dead and I don't have a way to format replacements. I would like to hang on to these if I can manage to get them home without doing myself harm. 1 Tek 4014-1 graphics terminal w/hard copy unit. The terminal works fine, but I haven't had a chance to test the hard copy unit. I would like to hang on to this unit, but moving it is definately a two person and a truck kind of thing. So I may have to let it go. :( ? StorageTek 9-Track drives. 110V operation. How many of these I have depends on the fate of the ZS-1 machines. I have a couple now, and will have several more if the ZS machines are scrapped. Large quantities of documentation. Over a dozen UNIX programmers manuals in metal desktop racks. Complete documentation sets for VMS, gray and orange binders. I have a box with complete unopened docs for a later version (don't remember off-hand which version) of VMS than we had ever installed. Documentation for several revisions of SunOS4. If I were to walk through the building, I could easily double this list. Basically we have just about everything! Thanks for listening, Jon Jon Auringer auringer@tds.net From mark_k at totalise.co.uk Mon Jan 14 14:55:29 2002 From: mark_k at totalise.co.uk (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS Message-ID: Hi, On Tue, 8 Jan 2002 Fred Cisin wrote: > Apple Turnover, and it's even theoretically possible to do it with the > CopyII Option board (if you are willing to write a program comparable to > the Apple OS file system. Same with Catweasel - theoretical possibility, > but significant software needed but not available. See http://www.ece.nwu.edu/~cbachman/apple.html Using a Copy II Option Board (or Deluxe Option Board) and its supplied software you can create an image file of Apple II disks. Then use the program on that page convert to a plain disk image. [About the Option Board (earlier non-ASIC model): I'll volunteer to trace the PCB of one of these as part of an effort to figure out exactly how it works. But I only have Deluxe Option Board here at the moment, which uses an ASIC.] There are free programs (source available) for extracting files from and otherwise manipulating Apple disk images; one is AFID. > If you have an Amiga, and are willing to buy or write significant > software, it can (in theory) do both Apple and PC. Free software already exists on the Amiga for reading Apple disks, and transparently reading and writing MS-DOS disks. For reading Apple disks, use the disk2file program included in this archive (which also includes an Amiga executable of the AFID program): http://us.aminet.net/pub/aminet/misc/emu/Apple2000v13.readme http://us.aminet.net/pub/aminet/misc/emu/Apple2000v13.lha Versions 2.04 and later of the Amiga OS come with CrossDOS, which allows PC (and Atari ST) floppies to be accessed transparently. A comparable package which comes with source code is MSH: http://us.aminet.net/pub/aminet/misc/emu/msh_156.readme http://us.aminet.net/pub/aminet/misc/emu/msh_156.lha > > I have a CompatiCard I and Uniform, and I still have > > Those will be nice for doing MFM diskettes. No help at all for GCR > (Apple and Commodore). An Amiga with 5.25" drive can also read Commodore 1541-type disks. One free package (which from memory includes source code) requires that the disk motor be slowed down slightly, from 300rpm to about 280 (easy enough on Commodore A1020 5.25" drives, and non-Commodore disks are still readable at that speed). http://us.aminet.net/pub/aminet/misc/emu/1541.readme http://us.aminet.net/pub/aminet/misc/emu/1541.lha All in all, an old Amiga 500 or whatever costing about US$10 can be a good investment if you need to read "strange" disk formats. An Amiga 5.25" drive should cost about the same or a little more. -- Mark From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 14 13:41:25 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) In-Reply-To: <20020114053557.66993.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jan 13, 2 09:35:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 451 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020114/5ea5571e/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jan 14 15:09:47 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) References: Message-ID: <003e01c19d40$e0426540$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I do believe the main reason for the 68010's appearance in what was previously a number of 68000 applications was that it could support virtual memory, while that was awkward on a 68K. The early AT&T 7300's (?) which a number of my friends bought, but I didn't (don't ask me why), used the 68010 even though they had rather limited HDD resources. It would have worked better with two drives, methinks. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 12:41 PM Subject: Re: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) > > I suppose the 68000 and 68020 were bigger sellers than the 68010, but > > they were a favorite "upgrade" for the Amiga 1000 owner who wanted > > to squeeze another 3% out of their box ("loop mode" one-instruction > > cache accounted for most of that). They appeared in early UNIX > > workstations (NCR Tower, perhaps?) because they could reasonably > > Also Torch XXX, some Suns, some HP9000 series, etc... They're not that > rare in my experience... > > -tony > > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 14 16:26:32 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) In-Reply-To: <003e01c19d40$e0426540$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20020114222632.61263.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > I do believe the main reason for the 68010's appearance in what was > previously a number of 68000 applications was that it could support > virtual memory, while that was awkward on a 68K. That's my recollection as well. > The early AT&T 7300's (?) which a number of my friends bought, but I > didn't (don't ask me why), We had a large 7300 club here - lots of Bell Labs guys bought them at employee rates. We built a 70-computer UUCP phone tree for e-mail and Usenet - fed in/out through AT&T (...!ihnp4!cbosgd..., later cbatt), Ohio State (osu-cis and giza) and finally through MorningStar before it went to PPP and the modern 'net. > used the 68010 even though they had rather limited HDD > resources. It would have worked better with two drives, methinks. I know that some model of UNIX PC had room for a full-height MFM drive under a hump (most only had room for a half-height). It was too little, too late, but you could drop a lot more than 40Mb inside - maybe 80Mb or more! :-) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jan 14 16:34:39 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) In-Reply-To: Re: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) (Ethan Dicks) References: <003e01c19d40$e0426540$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <20020114222632.61263.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15427.23807.504143.677027@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 14, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > used the 68010 even though they had rather limited HDD > > resources. It would have worked better with two drives, methinks. > > I know that some model of UNIX PC had room for a full-height MFM drive > under a hump (most only had room for a half-height). It was too little, > too late, but you could drop a lot more than 40Mb inside - maybe 80Mb > or more! :-) If memory serves, the one with the half-height bay was called the 7300, and the full-height version was the 3B1. They were the same otherwise; I swapped a few out from damaged machines many years ago. They sure were great machines. I wouldn't mind having one for posterity. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jan 14 12:54:15 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: Free: 3B2 OS tapes Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E0F0@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Bradford [mailto:mrbill@mrbill.net] > I've got two QIC tapes here: > Free for the cost of postage. Surely someone has a 3b2 and needs > an OS.. Yep, but my 3B2 has a floppy drive and no tape. :/ Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jan 14 12:41:15 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: Please unsubscribe; I can't Message-ID: Please disregard my post. Apparently screaming loudly at upper-level RoadRunner reps works wonders. We now have a DNS record, and since I can get mail on the mdrconsult account from Yahoo, it looks like they got it done and propagated in less than an hour. Still, overall, inexcusable. Doc From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jan 14 16:41:09 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:34 2005 Subject: RAM request Message-ID: Well today I got my NeXT Dimension board fully functional with 32MB of RAM installed. Unfortunately the RAM came out of my slab. I am asking this here due to the number of SIMMs I am now in need of. If anyone has the following and would like to sell them, please let me know. 16 - 4MB 30pin SIMMs, 100ns or better, parity or non-parity (as long as they all match), low profile preferred. These are to replace the 1MB SIMMs currently in my Cube's '040 mainboard. 8 - 4MB 72pin SIMMs, 80ns or better, 1M x 32 or 1M x 36 (as long as they all match). These are for my slab to replace the SIMMs I pulled for use in the Dimension board. Thanks Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jan 14 12:26:12 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: What to do with an empty BA23 Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E0EC@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Matt London [mailto:classiccmp@knm.yi.org] > Ahh - I fear I will have to do the same for my gf, but I plan on > emigrating to canada to be with her anyway, so I won't be able to take > most of my kit. When that time comes, I'm sure classiccmp > will be able to > find good homes, unless I have to resort to ePay to get some > money for the > move :&/ Have you tried the "cute, furry animal" trick from the FAQ? :) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From alex at linuxhacker.org Mon Jan 14 12:12:07 2002 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: Screeching monitor Message-ID: <3C431F77.7090508@linuxhacker.org> Hi, I've just been having a go at fixing an old Acorn AKF40 monitor (a few months shy of ten years old I'm afraid), which makes a screeching sound and fails to provide any display when powered up. Not having done anything like this before (I generally stick to low voltage digital stuff) I could do with a little advice. I checked for bad connections and dry joints first, then started going around with a multimeter looking for open resistors, shorted caps etc. I soon located a fault- a power resistor with a discoloured area on it which is completely open circuit. It's located somewhere in the switch mode power supply. What do you think this resistor is likely to be for, and is its failure consistent with the symptoms I'm seeing, or should I be looking for other failed parts too? Also, it says on it: 4.7 [ohm symbol] K 7W Would I be right in thinking that that means 4K7 rated to 7W? -- ------------ Alex Holden - http://www.linuxhacker.org ------------ If it doesn't work, you're not hitting it with a big enough hammer From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Mon Jan 14 10:19:25 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: Compaq LTE 5000 series, slightly OT (was: Re: Xircom NICs (wa s RE: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: .... )) Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014674C4@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! > While not quite yet a classic, one of my more favorite ! > series of laptops is the Compaq LTE 5000. It supported ! > a total of 4 pcmcia cards when it was used with a ! > docking station. These were truly unique machines IMHO, ! > and set the standards for removable cdrom and floppy ! > drives in future laptop systems. I don't know of any ! > other manufacturer at the time who offered a ! > machine with similar features. Sounds like my DockStation II for IBM Think Pads. That sucker was big, and at least half made of metal. It added 2 more PCMCIA slots, 2 ISA (or PCI) slots, included a special SCSI CD-ROM (Kodak Pkoto-CD compatible!), a full size SCSI expansion bay, an high density 50-pin SCSI connector on the back, stereo speakers, PS/2 mouse & KB connectors, printer, serial, video, audio in/out, external floppy connector... Works great with my 760EL... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From pb at Colorado.EDU Mon Jan 14 11:54:55 2002 From: pb at Colorado.EDU (pb@Colorado.EDU) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: Convergent Technologies "Mini-MitiFrame" availale Message-ID: <200201141754.g0EHstl21294@morse.Colorado.EDU> Hi. I've got a Convergent Technologies 68020 (typically a MitiFrame) in a MiniFrame (typically a 68010) case, that needs a new home. This is a pretty complete machine: it's got 2 MB of RAM (I think), 2 MFM hard disks (I don't remember capacity, but I believe that one is 147 MB and the other is smaller), and a tape drive (DC-600, I think). It has an ethernet card, and runs CTIX (I forget the version; this is Convergent Technologies' implmentation of System V, R2 (maybe R3) UNIX). I have lots of documentation, as well as distribution media for this machine. I am not interested in shipping this. I am located in Denver, CO, and would be delighted if someone would tell me "I want this," and then come pick it up. It would fit easily in a car. It booted just fine about a week ago, but I did no extensive testing. PB Schechter From sipke at wxs.nl Mon Jan 14 11:56:58 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: Tallgrass Technologies TG-1140 References: Message-ID: <004501c19d24$dd780b60$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Is that the type which uses "certified digital cassette tapes" with a propriety kinda SCSI interface ? ....................... If so I got one from an old Tulip-PC with some limited doc's from Tulip. But I'll have to dig a bit to get things handy ..... Sipke de Wal ----------------------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx ----------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Doc Shipley To: Classic Computers Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 10:16 AM Subject: Tallgrass Technologies TG-1140 > Anybody know anything about a Tallgrass Technologies TG-1140 Tape > Storage System? Apparently takes 40MB cartridge tapes. The guy who has > it thinks it was built about 1988. > I don't have access to it, so that's all the info I have. > Yeah, I know. Tony Duell has all the manuals.... :^) > > Doc > From jss at subatomix.com Mon Jan 14 09:45:36 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: The STC ZEBRA and CPU meters In-Reply-To: <20020113235005.A23948@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <20020114094237.E8493-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Derek Peschel wrote: > And so the computer had a moving-needle efficiency meter on the front > panel, which presumably integrated a series of pulses (similar to the > circuit Tony described earlier). Or I suppose it could have divided the > rate of instruction execution by the rate of drum rotation (since there > was a timing track on the drum anyway). 100% efficiency was attainable > but only by simple programs such as a parity check of the drum. I bet Mel could do it! (Yeah, I'm sure we all know this link, but here it is anyway, just in case.) http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/The-Story-of-Mel.html -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Mon Jan 14 10:00:26 2002 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: Data General DG/20 References: <200201130730.g0D7Ur077156@bg-tc-ppp405.monmouth.com> <3C42953B.9D3DE739@softstar.it> Message-ID: <00e801c19d14$958b84e0$b41ea8ce@NEWHARE> G'day Enrico - Although we are obsessed with salvaging, restoring and preserving all DG Nova and Eclipse equipement, we have a commercial solution to run Desktop code on open systems. Perhaps this could help your Desktop Generation model 20 situation... The products are listed at: www.NovasAreForever.com Bruce Ray Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. bkr@WildHareComputers.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enrico Badella" To: Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 1:22 AM Subject: WTB: Data General DG/20 > > Hello, > > I'm urgently looking for one or more Data General DG/20 systems better > if in working conditions but will also consider dead ones as source for > spare parts. Why? A friend has four of these in a production line, one > has just died and there seems to be not viable solutions in a short > period od time. > > Please email me if you have such beasts and willing to part from it > for $$$ or trade. > > TIA > > e. > > ======================================================================== > Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it > Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it > InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 > Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 > 10143 Torino, Italy > > Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, > manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals > ========================================================================== > From sipke at wxs.nl Mon Jan 14 11:59:02 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: Data General DG/20 References: <200201130730.g0D7Ur077156@bg-tc-ppp405.monmouth.com> <3C42953B.9D3DE739@softstar.it> <00e801c19d14$958b84e0$b41ea8ce@NEWHARE> Message-ID: <004d01c19d25$275c5d80$030101ac@boll.casema.net> This DG-products link didn't work I guess ........... Sipke de Wal -------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx -------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce Ray To: Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 5:00 PM Subject: Re: Data General DG/20 > G'day Enrico - > > Although we are obsessed with salvaging, restoring and preserving all DG > Nova and Eclipse equipement, we have a commercial solution to run Desktop > code on open systems. Perhaps this could help your Desktop Generation model > 20 situation... > > The products are listed at: > www.NovasAreForever.com > > > Bruce Ray > Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. > bkr@WildHareComputers.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Enrico Badella" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 1:22 AM > Subject: WTB: Data General DG/20 > > > > > > Hello, > > > > I'm urgently looking for one or more Data General DG/20 systems better > > if in working conditions but will also consider dead ones as source for > > spare parts. Why? A friend has four of these in a production line, one > > has just died and there seems to be not viable solutions in a short > > period od time. > > > > Please email me if you have such beasts and willing to part from it > > for $$$ or trade. > > > > TIA > > > > e. > > > > ======================================================================== > > Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it > > Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it > > InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 > > Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 > > 10143 Torino, Italy > > > > Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX > hardware,software, > > manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals > > ========================================================================== > > > From jhfine at idirect.com Mon Jan 14 09:23:05 2002 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: VAX 7800'S References: <200201141452.JAA39813@deimos.idirect.com> Message-ID: <3C42F7D8.2BE07488@idirect.com> A message received > WE NEED YOUR HELP! > > IF YOU HAVE ANY: > > VAX 7800?S > > CALL US TODAY !!! > WE HAVE ORDERS - - WILL PAY TOP $ It seems like they still need VAX systems to replace to those lost on September 11th. Has this driven up old VAX prices? From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jan 14 05:57:01 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Mac IIci Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225CF0@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > But A/UX sucks humongous hairy sweaty donkey balls. has anyone every noticed that *nothing* ever sucks tiny little dainty hairless donkey balls? ;) From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jan 14 06:23:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Mac IIci In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225CF0@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > But A/UX sucks humongous hairy sweaty donkey balls. > > has anyone every noticed that *nothing* ever sucks > tiny little dainty hairless donkey balls? I bet tiny little dainty hairless donkeys do... Doc From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jan 14 09:30:24 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Mac IIci Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225CF5@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > > But A/UX sucks humongous hairy sweaty donkey balls. > > > > has anyone every noticed that *nothing* ever sucks > > tiny little dainty hairless donkey balls? > > I bet tiny little dainty hairless donkeys do... Don't they call those "gerbils"? ;) From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jan 14 16:31:48 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Mac IIci In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225CF5@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> from Douglas Quebbeman at "Jan 14, 2 10:30:24 am" Message-ID: <200201142231.OAA09900@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > > But A/UX sucks humongous hairy sweaty donkey balls. > > > has anyone every noticed that *nothing* ever sucks > > > tiny little dainty hairless donkey balls? > > I bet tiny little dainty hairless donkeys do... > Don't they call those "gerbils"? As a professional gerbil and hamster hater, being bitten, crapped on and peed on by virtually every member of those species I have come in contact with, that is an insult to little dainty hairless donkeys everywhere. :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- In memory of Werner Klemperer ---------------------------------------------- From vance at ikickass.org Mon Jan 14 16:40:54 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Mac IIci In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225CF0@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: Is there such a thing? Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 06:57:01 -0500 > From: Douglas Quebbeman > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > To: "'classiccmp@classiccmp.org'" > Subject: OT: RE: Mac IIci > > > But A/UX sucks humongous hairy sweaty donkey balls. > > has anyone every noticed that *nothing* ever sucks > tiny little dainty hairless donkey balls? > > ;) > From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jan 14 18:12:40 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: [OT] 5" and 6" CRTs needed... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > I'm in dire need of a couple VGA 5" and 6" displays. Mono is > > acceptable. I'd like to find them used (but not badly burned) since > > the cost for them new is pretty high. If you've got some or have a > > source, please let me know off list. (I doubt this would interest > > anyone else) > > Actually, this thread is more on topic then not. > > IBM made several models of color VGA monitors for the PS/2 line that fit > your description. If you find one of these, it would likely need repairs > to get it back into top shape, due to its age. The only other small VGA > monitors I've seen that were this size have been open frame. Typically > these can be found for around $20-50 new from surplus dealers. > Toth, my problem is *finding* them. The only displays I can find in the size I need are either TTL Mono or CGA. Those do sell in the $20 to $50 range, but don't offer the resolution I have to have (640x480). g. From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 14 16:56:50 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: [OT] 5" and 6" CRTs needed... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Gene Buckle wrote: > I'm in dire need of a couple VGA 5" and 6" displays. Mono is > acceptable. I'd like to find them used (but not badly burned) since > the cost for them new is pretty high. If you've got some or have a > source, please let me know off list. (I doubt this would interest > anyone else) Actually, this thread is more on topic then not. IBM made several models of color VGA monitors for the PS/2 line that fit your description. If you find one of these, it would likely need repairs to get it back into top shape, due to its age. The only other small VGA monitors I've seen that were this size have been open frame. Typically these can be found for around $20-50 new from surplus dealers. -Toth From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Mon Jan 14 08:10:37 2002 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: More HP1000's Message-ID: Hey gang, Went shopping this weekend to one of my secret hideaways and found 3 racks of HP1000/E stuff. Good thing I have a big truck or I'd have top make several trips. None of those system has a hard drive but, each one does have a 9885 floppy drive. Since I'm just getting started with the 1000s, I've got a couple of newbie questions. 1.) Does the 9885 require special disks or will generic 8" floppies work? What is the format for the disks? 2) Can RTE be run from a floppy system? 3.) And of course... Does anyone have a copy of RTE or any other OS on compatible floppy they'd be willing to share? TIA, SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Mon Jan 14 08:23:02 2002 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: More HP1000's Message-ID: BTW: Was thinking about getting a camera and taking some pictures of the 1000s. If I take pictures, does anyone have the bandwidth and willingness to host them? SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From bruce at greatbasin.net Mon Jan 14 16:56:42 2002 From: bruce at greatbasin.net (Bruce Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:26:32 PST." <20020114222632.61263.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200201142256.g0EMuga17635@roo.greatbasin.net> --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > I do believe the main reason for the 68010's appearance in what was > previously a number of 68000 applications was that it could support > virtual memory, while that was awkward on a 68K. Yes, I seem to remember that with the 68000, there was an interaction with the Bus Fault signal that prevented you from attaching any kind of memory management unit. Something to do with what state got saved on the stack; I don't remember the exact details. I remember helping design a discrete-logic MMU for the machine I was working on at the time, and we had to wait for the 68010 to come out before we could use it. -- Bruce Robertson, President/CEO +1-775-348-7299 Great Basin Internet Services, Inc. fax: +1-775-348-9412 http://www.greatbasin.net From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jan 14 16:54:19 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E0FB@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com] > I know that some model of UNIX PC had room for a full-height MFM drive > under a hump (most only had room for a half-height). It was > too little, > too late, but you could drop a lot more than 40Mb inside - maybe 80Mb > or more! :-) IIRC, that was the second UnixPC model that was never released. (7400?) It was also supposed to have a color screen. That said, I suppose it wouldn't be difficult to run the drive interface cable through a plate in the back of the machine, if you can find a plate that will fit it, and has a hole for a connector that you can run to an external drive chassis. In fact, I haven't opened the machine in ages, but you could possibly even run the external disk as a second drive, given some other slight modifications. I don't recall whether the UnixPC had any data cable header for a second drive. Probably not, since it wouldn't have fit inside. On the other hand, there are MFM to SCSI bridges, I believe, and I wonder whether you could just use one of those and run some 1GB or so disk on it. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jan 14 17:00:04 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) In-Reply-To: RE: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) (Christopher Smith) References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E0FB@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <15427.25332.494470.818992@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 14, Christopher Smith wrote: > > I know that some model of UNIX PC had room for a full-height MFM drive > > under a hump (most only had room for a half-height). It was > > too little, > > too late, but you could drop a lot more than 40Mb inside - maybe 80Mb > > or more! :-) > > IIRC, that was the second UnixPC model that was never released. (7400?) It was also supposed to have a color screen. That said, I suppose it wouldn't be difficult to run the drive interface cable through a plate in the back of the machine, if you can find a plate that will fit it, and has a hole for a connector that you can run to an external drive chassis. Umm, no, that was the 3B1. It was most definitely released, as I've had several of them. I used to run Seagate ST4096 80MB drives in them. I'd kill for one with a color display though. :) > On the other hand, there are MFM to SCSI bridges, I believe, and I wonder whether you could just use one of those and run some 1GB or so disk on it. Those bridges typically go the other way, to put MFM drives on a SCSI bus. I'd imagine it'd be pretty difficult to build one to go in the other direction. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From spc at conman.org Mon Jan 14 17:03:02 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) In-Reply-To: <003e01c19d40$e0426540$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jan 14, 2002 02:09:47 PM Message-ID: <200201142303.SAA28053@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Richard Erlacher once stated: > > I do believe the main reason for the 68010's appearance in what was previously > a number of 68000 applications was that it could support virtual memory, while > that was awkward on a 68K. That is correct. The 68000 could not restart a faulted instruction since not enough information was saved. The 68010 saved more of the internal state of the CPU to restart the faulting instruction (and I think the saved program counter changed too---mostly from past the faulting instruction to the actual faulting instruction). -spc (And they did speed up certain operations on the 68010) From jhfine at idirect.com Mon Jan 14 08:45:30 2002 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: Prophylactic replacement of electrolytic capacitors? References: <10201140922.ZM3796@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3C42EF0A.A84685FD@idirect.com> >Pete Turnbull wrote: > >On Jan 13, 21:27, Louis Schulman wrote: > > Old computer power supplies generally have big old electrolytic > > capacitors. When these go bad, they can > > cause real problems, and damage other components. > > The literature indicates that many of these only have a working life of > > 2000 hrs., or a shelf life of ten years. > > Obviously, this will be exceeded in old computers. > I think you may have lost a digit off the working life, Louis, at least if > you're referring to the sort of electrolytics found in PSUs :-) Jerome Fine replies: I was hoping you would answer this question. Thank you! Of all the hobby users around here, it seems that you have the most experience with repairs. Now, that lost digit for the working life, I presume you mean that 20,000 hours is more reasonable? Would that vary if the usage was 24/7 (on all the time for the whole 20,000 hours) as opposed to being on for 10 hours continuous once a week on average, i.e. about 50 times a year or 500 hours a year? The other MUCH BIGGER question for the stuff most of us tend to work with is shelf life. That was estimated at 10 years. What is a reasonable estimate? Also, more specifically, I have a number of BA23/BA123 boxes which are about the only PSU I am concerned about for the long term. Most are probably more than ten years old already - as far as shelf life is concerned. Is a PSU (in general an very specifically a BA23/BA123 box) more likely to have a longer shelf life of used every so often - any if so, how often - once a week, month, year, decade? I am asking since my goal is to keep running RT-11 for as long as possible. Three walls loom: (a) I am 63. If I figure another 30 years before I get senile or my sons will not help me run my hardware, that will be reasonable. (a) The life of a BA23/BA123 box and the Qbus boards and disk drives. (b) The life of the emulators - probably since "simh" is written in C, they will last although Ersatz-11 written for DOS/W95/W98 on a current PC may have future problems. > > So, should these be replaced if they exceed a certain age? > If it ain't broke, don't fix it. As always, there's an exception to prove > the rule. If one of a pair goes, it may be worth replacing both to get the > values to match. Or in some PSUs, if one or more fails, they may all have > got too hot or dried out, and at least for small ones (relatively > inexpensive), I tend to replace the lot. In any case, check the others, > they may be on their way to join it. This seems like good advice for working life - what about shelf life? > The working life is an estimate based on mean time between failures (MTBF). > All this says is that for a large sample, it is statistically likely that > a certain proprtion will fail in a certain time. Variation can be > enormous. Could shelf life of some PSU also be as long as 30 years? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Jan 14 09:39:24 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: Prophylactic replacement of electrolytic capacitors? References: Message-ID: <3C42FBAC.8A896C7@ccp.com> Louis Schulman wrote: > > Old computer power supplies generally have big old electrolytic capacitors. When these go bad, they can > cause real problems, and damage other components. > > The literature indicates that many of these only have a working life of 2000 hrs., or a shelf life of ten years. > Obviously, this will be exceeded in old computers. > > So, should these be replaced if they exceed a certain age? For the screw terminal type, is it necessary to > use "computer grade" capacitors, which can be fairly expensive? If one can't find the right value in the right > size package, how much extra capacitance is acceptable? And any higher working voltage rating is OK? > > Enquiring minds want to know. > > Louis IMHO, it depends mostly on who made the electrolytics. I have large "computer grade" electrolytics from the 60's, salvaged from Ampex VTR's that are still 100%, and have never failed in over 30 years. OTOH, the cheap electrolytics found in consumer grade electronics seem to dry out and fail on a yeary or biannual basis. One of the worst failure rates I've seen is the teeny tiny 160VDC electrolytics; I just replace then no matter what and usually that cures the problems. The best way to check those #$%#$%^# caps is to use an ESR meter. And only then should yo buckshot them. And replace them with good grade Spraggue or CDE if possible. I've had mixed to poor resutls with Nichion, or other cheap Japanese caps sold by MCM Electronics. Gary Hildebrand From allain at panix.com Mon Jan 14 09:01:42 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: Prophylactic replacement of electrolytic capacitors? References: <3C42FBAC.8A896C7@ccp.com> Message-ID: <019401c19d0c$61194920$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > The best way to check those #$%#$%^# caps is to use an ESR meter. And > only then should yo buckshot them. And replace them with good grade Seems like a simple enough question: how do you test them? I don't have an ESR meter, should I get one? No other way? John A. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 14 11:29:19 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: Prophylactic replacement of electrolytic capacitors? In-Reply-To: Gary Hildebrand "Re: Prophylactic replacement of electrolytic capacitors?" (Jan 14, 9:39) References: <3C42FBAC.8A896C7@ccp.com> Message-ID: <10201141729.ZM4328@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 14, 9:39, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > IMHO, it depends mostly on who made the electrolytics. I have large > "computer grade" electrolytics from the 60's, salvaged from Ampex VTR's > that are still 100%, and have never failed in over 30 years. Not unusual... > OTOH, the cheap electrolytics found in consumer grade electronics seem > to dry out and fail on a yeary or biannual basis. One of the worst > failure rates I've seen is the teeny tiny 160VDC electrolytics; I just > replace then no matter what and usually that cures the problems. ...and also not unusual. I've seen a batch of Pentium motherboards that had a stack of small cheap electrolytics right beside/under the Slot1 processor -- and all dried out and failed within a few months. > The best way to check those #$%#$%^# caps is to use an ESR meter. And > only then should yo buckshot them. And replace them with good grade > Spraggue or CDE if possible. I've had mixed to poor resutls with > Nichion, or other cheap Japanese caps sold by MCM Electronics. > > Gary Hildebrand > -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jhfine at idirect.com Mon Jan 14 12:18:36 2002 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: Prophylactic replacement of electrolytic capacitors? References: <10201140922.ZM3796@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C42EF0A.A84685FD@idirect.com> <10201141729.ZM4324@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3C4320FC.7BE3F60B@idirect.com> >Pete Turnbull wrote: > >On Jan 14, 9:45, Jerome Fine wrote: > > Also, more specifically, I have a number of BA23/BA123 boxes > > which are about the only PSU I am concerned about for the long term. > > Most are probably more than ten years old already - as far as shelf life > > is concerned. Is a PSU (in general an very specifically a BA23/BA123 > > box) more likely to have a longer shelf life of used every so often - any > > if so, how often - once a week, month, year, decade? > That will make a difference, as electrolytics tend to degrade over time. > The insulator is really a thin layer of oxide on the metal foil inside, > and if left sitting unused, that may dissolve. Hence the low shelf life. > That's why you run long-unused electrolytics at a low voltage for a while, > to reform the oxide layer. Running the PSU every so often -- once or twice > a year -- will prevent that happening. With a linear supply, running it at > low voltage is not too difficult -- if there's no variac handy to reduce > the voltage, a low wattage (but mains voltage!) light bulb in series is a > good idea. That's not a good idea with switchers, because they just try to > draw more current instead, which is often worse. The ideal solution is to > remove the caps and run them on a current-limited bench supply, gradually > winding it up from a low voltage to the rated voltage of the capacitor. > The PSUs in BA23/123 (almost all QBus machines, in fact) are switchers, > BTW. Jerome Fine replies: OK! I get the point. I should turn on the BA23/BA123 boxes at least once a year. Now, what if they have been off for 5 years? I am useless with a soldering iron. Is it better to just go through every box and put in a reasonable load ASAP or leave them unused? From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 14 11:29:14 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: Prophylactic replacement of electrolytic capacitors? In-Reply-To: Jerome Fine "Re: Prophylactic replacement of electrolytic capacitors?" (Jan 14, 9:45) References: <10201140922.ZM3796@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C42EF0A.A84685FD@idirect.com> Message-ID: <10201141729.ZM4324@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 14, 9:45, Jerome Fine wrote: > >Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > >On Jan 13, 21:27, Louis Schulman wrote: > > > Old computer power supplies generally have big old electrolytic > > > capacitors. When these go bad, they can > > > cause real problems, and damage other components. > > > The literature indicates that many of these only have a working life of > > > 2000 hrs., or a shelf life of ten years. > > > Obviously, this will be exceeded in old computers. > > I think you may have lost a digit off the working life, Louis, at least if > > you're referring to the sort of electrolytics found in PSUs :-) > > Jerome Fine replies: > > I was hoping you would answer this question. Thank you! Of all the > hobby users around here, it seems that you have the most experience > with repairs. Oh, I don't know about that, particularly for older equipment there are a few others here who can outdo me, I think . > Now, that lost digit for the working life, I presume you mean that 20,000 > hours is more reasonable? Would that vary if the usage was 24/7 (on all > the time for the whole 20,000 hours) as opposed to being on for 10 hours > continuous once a week on average, i.e. about 50 times a year or 500 > hours a year? 20,000 hours is the top end of the range, really. 2000 is very low, though. No, 24/7 versus several hours on different occasions won't make much difference. Temperature makes a difference, becasue high temperatures make a cap dry out faster, as does the ripple current, because of internal heating (high current or high ESR). > The other MUCH BIGGER question for the stuff most of us tend to work > with is shelf life. That was estimated at 10 years. What is a reasonable > estimate? Also, more specifically, I have a number of BA23/BA123 boxes > which are about the only PSU I am concerned about for the long term. > Most are probably more than ten years old already - as far as shelf life > is concerned. Is a PSU (in general an very specifically a BA23/BA123 > box) more likely to have a longer shelf life of used every so often - any > if so, how often - once a week, month, year, decade? That will make a difference, as electrolytics tend to degrade over time. The insulator is really a thin layer of oxide on the metal foil inside, and if left sitting unused, that may dissolve. Hence the low shelf life. That's why you run long-unused electrolytics at a low voltage for a while, to reform the oxide layer. Running the PSU every so often -- once or twice a year -- will prevent that happening. With a linear supply, running it at low voltage is not too difficult -- if there's no variac handy to reduce the voltage, a low wattage (but mains voltage!) light bulb in series is a good idea. That's not a good idea with switchers, because they just try to draw more current instead, which is often worse. The ideal solution is to remove the caps and run them on a current-limited bench supply, gradually winding it up from a low voltage to the rated voltage of the capacitor. The PSUs in BA23/123 (almost all QBus machines, in fact) are switchers, BTW. > Could shelf life of some PSU also be as long as 30 years? Yes, it could, if stored under optimum conditions (but I confess I'm not sure what "optimum" would mean -- probably not too hot and dry, but not damp either) and started up periodically to make sure the caps reform. However, a blown electrolytic is easy to replace and often not hard to spot, because there's often a bulge or even a hole in the end! Or in extreme cases, an empty can where the capacitor used to be. A few years ago, I needed a non-polar electrolytic to fix an Atari monitor. The nearest equivalent I could find was the same value and voltage but physically much smaller than the original. The ripple current rating wasn't very high, either, but I didn't know what the original was rated for, so I tried it anyway. The monitor ran fine with the case off for about ten minutes, then there was a loud BANG! and small pieces of fluff floated down from the ceiling. Apparently the ripple current rating wasn't high enough :-) I replaced that one with a polyester cap in the end. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 14 11:29:21 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: Prophylactic replacement of electrolytic capacitors? In-Reply-To: "John Allain" "Re: Prophylactic replacement of electrolytic capacitors?" (Jan 14, 10:01) References: <3C42FBAC.8A896C7@ccp.com> <019401c19d0c$61194920$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <10201141729.ZM4332@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 14, 10:01, John Allain wrote: > > The best way to check those #$%#$%^# caps is to use an ESR meter. And > > only then should yo buckshot them. And replace them with good grade > > Seems like a simple enough question: how do you test them? > I don't have an ESR meter, should I get one? No other way? The quick and dirty test is to use an *analogue* meter (what Americans used to call a VOM, not a VTVM) on the ohms range across the capacitor. The needle should flick violently across (indicating zero or low resistance) and then fall quickly (at first) as the capacitor charges (and the current drops). Ideally it should end up showing virtually infinite resistance. It needs a bit of experience, though, as the violence of the flick depends on ESR and capacitance, and there tends to be some leakage in an electrolytic so the final reading is often not zero current. It may be worth trying if you have a known-good capacitor of similar voltage and capacitance to compare. A digital multimeter is rarely any use for this, though. The response of the meter is just too slow; by the time it's shown the first reading the event is all but over. Also most DMMs use very low voltages and currents, not enough to give a big electrolytic a good fright. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 14 13:25:31 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: Prophylactic replacement of electrolytic capacitors? In-Reply-To: from "Louis Schulman" at Jan 13, 2 09:27:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2525 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020114/1c8f604d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 14 13:45:45 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: Prophylactic replacement of electrolytic capacitors? In-Reply-To: <019401c19d0c$61194920$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Jan 14, 2 10:01:42 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 937 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020114/dd262453/attachment.ksh From kapteynr at cboe.com Mon Jan 14 15:52:22 2002 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: Prophylactic replacement of electrolytic capacitors? Message-ID: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF0CE02B54@msx1.cboe.com> I have not yet tried this yet -- In theory, electrolytics can be re-formed. There is a very thin aluminum oxide layer that disappears after a long time. Running current through the cap will rebuild the insulating layer until current will no longer go through it. I want to reform the original capacitors in my Altair "in place" -- i.e., without unsoldering them. I have the following setup in mind: 1. Insulate the computer from the world -- unplug it and put it on a rubber table. 2. Use ultra mini test clips to connect to both leads of a capacitor. 3. Connect the test leads to one of those lab power supplies that have adjustable DC voltage and a milli-ammeter. 4. Connect + on the lab power supply to + on the capacitor (very important). 5. Start at zero voltage and increase slowly while looking at the ammeter. 6. Stop increasing the voltage when the ammeter reads anything more than a few milliamps. (If it draws too much current, the capacitor will heat up and may blow up) 7. Wait for the current on the ammeter to drop to zero. 8. Continue to increase the voltage, and wait for the ammeter to drop until you reach the rated voltage limit of the capacitor. 9. Repeat for every electrolytic cap in the computer. Has anyone done this ? Will it work ? Comments? -Rob From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 14 16:34:50 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: Prophylactic replacement of electrolytic capacitors? In-Reply-To: Rob Kapteyn "RE: Prophylactic replacement of electrolytic capacitors?" (Jan 14, 15:52) References: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF0CE02B54@msx1.cboe.com> Message-ID: <10201142234.ZM4543@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 14, 15:52, Rob Kapteyn wrote: > I have not yet tried this yet -- > In theory, electrolytics can be re-formed. > There is a very thin aluminum oxide layer that disappears after a long time. > Running current through the cap will rebuild the insulating layer until current will no longer go through it. > > I want to reform the original capacitors in my Altair "in place" -- i.e., without unsoldering them. > > I have the following setup in mind: > > 1. Insulate the computer from the world -- unplug it and put it on a rubber table. > 2. Use ultra mini test clips to connect to both leads of a capacitor. > 3. Connect the test leads to one of those lab power supplies that have adjustable DC voltage and a milli-ammeter. > 4. Connect + on the lab power supply to + on the capacitor (very important). > 5. Start at zero voltage and increase slowly while looking at the ammeter. > 6. Stop increasing the voltage when the ammeter reads anything more than a few milliamps. > (If it draws too much current, the capacitor will heat up and may blow up) > 7. Wait for the current on the ammeter to drop to zero. > 8. Continue to increase the voltage, and wait for the ammeter to drop until you reach the rated voltage limit of the capacitor. > 9. Repeat for every electrolytic cap in the computer. > > Has anyone done this ? > Will it work ? I've not done that in-circuit, but it might work. There are some gotchas. If you're talking about power smoothing caps, any voltage you put on the cap will also be powering the rest of the circuit. Disconnect any transformer. You don't want to feed them DC. Also, the current drawn by the rest of the circuit will make it impossible to gauge the leakage current in the capacitor. If you're talking about any other capacitor, putting a voltage on it may provide power to some signal line connected to an unpowered device, which the device may not like. In particular, TTL doesn't like power on some signal inputs when there is a ground connection but no Vcc. In either case, the voltage rating on the capacitor is likely higher than the maximum for the logic ICs, and TTL in particular does not like excessive voltage (NMOS is more tolerant). Don't exceed the lowest maximum-voltage rating of any device on the board. Of course, you're assuming that the capacitors need reformed. They might not (but it's good practice to assume they might). If you can't remove them without risking damage to the PCB, I would try feeding power into the board through a current-limited supply at a low voltage and gradually winding it up to the normal value over a period of several tens of minutes. If they've completely dried out, they're dead anyway. Stop if the current shoots up, or seems too high -- you probably have a short. Is an Altair board like a typical S100 board, fed from an 8VDC unregulated supply, and with on-board regulator? If so, just use a bench supply as above. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From hansp at aconit.org Mon Jan 14 17:11:50 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: Info request : HP 9892A card reader Message-ID: <3C4365B6.2080902@aconit.org> Hi all, We have an HP 9892A card reader which appears in decent shape. We would like to interface it to a PC if possible. It is a rebadged Documation M600. Anyone have docs or info about this model and its interface? Regards, -- hbp From Penna2 at aol.com Mon Jan 14 17:26:35 2002 From: Penna2 at aol.com (Penna2@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: Wire Recorder Message-ID: Dear Sir I also have a minifon unfortunately in bits. I would like to restore it and am trying to obtain as much info. on it as possible. I wondered weather you might be able to help. I also have a 1942 Armour research recorder which I have just finished the restoration. It has a wire reel with some interesting recordings on it.Unfortunatly also a few breaks and I have not yet found a way of splicing wire! I can see why they went to tape. Hope to hear from you. Yours sincerely John Penna From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Jan 14 12:25:43 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (longish) In-Reply-To: References: from "Mark Tapley" at Jan 13, 2 06:53:40 pm Message-ID: <20020114232546.SEOC20941.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (longish) > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 19:16:07 +0000 (GMT) > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > > All, > > I'm having and creating trouble with my Stylewriter 1. SW (no number 1) is early inkjet design w/ printhead ribbon rubbing during print, mechanical parking, printhead worm driven. Wears out too easily. SW2 and later, all later canons is much simpler and driven by belt, parking station much reliable. > > > How many dots is this printhead? 25 connections could be 24 dots + common > or sowething like that. I would have suspected 1 driver transistor per > dot, though, and 9 dots seems very small for a modern-ish inkjet printer. No. These canon inkjets I think is 32 or so nozzles and multiplexed (ala memory array style.) Printheads, cartridge for canon and HP has their IC built in by the nozzle on same die. Your nozzle test prints, each step is one nozzle, any gaps is clogged jet or dead. My friend w/ his original stylewriter decided to start printing blanks even it didn't caught itself that cartridge isn't working even cartridges were good. (!!) Good thing friend has spare printer to fall forward on, SW1200, both cartridges from SW he has work fine in SW1200. :-) Epson injet printers printheads is two piece design, two dies mounted directly to PCB and covered over with potting blobs is actual drivers driven by 8 bit addressing and clock via white flat tape ribbon cable. Two normally open switches for both tanks as gold pads made closed by spring leaf tipped w/ plated gold when tank is seated. Actual printhead itself is connected from that little vertical circuit board and fired by pizeo not heat. I knew this details because I did much tracing in 440 that blew it's print-head fuse on the motherboard. Found printer head itself is shorted. Cheers, Wizard PS: Successfully unclogged 3 epson inkjet printers today w/ very good results. The normal self cleaning is barely ok for minor problems, I always had to resort to brutal unclog methods on epsons that refuses to cooperate. Epson's printheads are about $100CDN. Took me years to develop the correct methods because other normal ways to deal with those epsons doesn't work at *all*. Aside from that, these epsons are very cheap, mechanically is pretty good. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 14 14:16:13 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: Prophylactic replacement of electrolytic capacitors? In-Reply-To: <10201141729.ZM4332@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jan 14, 2 05:29:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 866 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020114/15623ee6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 14 14:19:42 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: Screeching monitor In-Reply-To: <3C431F77.7090508@linuxhacker.org> from "Alex Holden" at Jan 14, 2 06:12:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1572 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020114/c1fbea47/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 14 17:29:13 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Re: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci)" (Jan 14, 14:26) References: <20020114222632.61263.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10201142329.ZM4626@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 14, 14:26, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > > I do believe the main reason for the 68010's appearance in what was > > previously a number of 68000 applications was that it could support > > virtual memory, while that was awkward on a 68K. > > That's my recollection as well. There are two relevant differences. The first is that on the 68000 (and 68008), reading the system byte in the status register isn't privileged, so MOVESR works in user mode as well as supervisor mode. In the 68010, that was corrected and an extra opcode was added to allow reading the user byte (condition codes) in user mode. The second difference is that the 68010 has the VBR (vector base register) so different interrupt/trap vectors can be used in different modes; the vector base is fixed in the 68000/68008. There's no difference in things like address range, modes, MMU interfacing, etc. Those changes came with the 68020. The other changes were improvement to the microcode, which made loops faster. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From tarsi at binhost.com Mon Jan 14 18:01:42 2002 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: A story In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02011418014209.00257@simon> > So, what about those "...Apples that he'd known so well from school..."? AH, gone away many moons ago, unfortunately. This was before the Age of Reckoning of the Value of Old Computers and I didn't catch them in time. Sadly. Tarsi 210 From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Jan 14 12:46:15 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: RAM request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020114234618.SWGP22140.tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 17:41:09 -0500 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Jeff Hellige > Subject: RAM request > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Well today I got my NeXT Dimension board fully functional > with 32MB of RAM installed. Unfortunately the RAM came out of my > slab. I am asking this here due to the number of SIMMs I am now in > need of. If anyone has the following and would like to sell them, > please let me know. > > 16 - 4MB 30pin SIMMs, 100ns or better, parity or non-parity > (as long as they all match), low profile preferred. These are to > replace the 1MB SIMMs currently in my Cube's '040 mainboard. > > 8 - 4MB 72pin SIMMs, 80ns or better, 1M x 32 or 1M x 36 (as > long as they all match). These are for my slab to replace the SIMMs > I pulled for use in the Dimension board. Hey, I have 8 pc of 8mb 70ns all matched pulled from ps/2 along w/ bits. Might have forgotten because that was long time. Cheers, Wizard > From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jan 14 17:57:22 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: RAM request In-Reply-To: <20020114234618.SWGP22140.tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <20020114234618.SWGP22140.tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: > > 8 - 4MB 72pin SIMMs, 80ns or better, 1M x 32 or 1M x 36 (as >> long as they all match). These are for my slab to replace the SIMMs >> I pulled for use in the Dimension board. > >Hey, I have 8 pc of 8mb 70ns all matched pulled from ps/2 along w/ >bits. Might have forgotten because that was long time. Thanks but I can't use the 8MB SIMMs. The non-turbo color slab has a max of 32MB, which is what mine is. The turbo's have a max of 128MB. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 14 17:45:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) In-Reply-To: Bruce Robertson "Re: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci)" (Jan 14, 14:56) References: <200201142256.g0EMuga17635@roo.greatbasin.net> Message-ID: <10201142345.ZM4647@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 14, 14:56, Bruce Robertson wrote: > Yes, I seem to remember that with the 68000, there was an interaction with > the Bus Fault signal that prevented you from attaching any kind of memory > management unit. Something to do with what state got saved on the stack; > I don't remember the exact details Oops, I forgot about that. You're right; the 68010 saves slightly more state on the stack than the early 68000. I have a feeling that was fixed in later 68000; some traps save more state than others. You can't get 68010s any more, unless you can find old stock somewhere :-( You can still get 68000s and 68020s. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 14 18:05:39 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: 8" Disk drives In-Reply-To: from "Pat Finnegan" at Jan 14, 2 03:54:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1056 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020115/d680750f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 14 18:09:24 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: Prophylactic replacement of electrolytic capacitors? In-Reply-To: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF0CE02B54@msx1.cboe.com> from "Rob Kapteyn" at Jan 14, 2 03:52:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1577 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020115/73abbc75/attachment.ksh From classiccmp at knm.yi.org Mon Jan 14 06:17:10 2002 From: classiccmp at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:35 2005 Subject: Compaq LTE 5000 series, slightly OT (was: Re: Xircom NICs (was RE: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: .... )) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, > While not quite yet a classic, one of my more favorite series of laptops > is the Compaq LTE 5000. It supported a total of 4 pcmcia cards when it was > used with a docking station. These were truly unique machines IMHO, and > set the standards for removable cdrom and floppy drives in future laptop > systems. I don't know of any other manufacturer at the time who offered a > machine with similar features. Yeah - the LTE 5000 series is nice - I have a 5100 (now out of use - anyone in the UK want it with a docking station for a sensible offer - it cost me about 250 pounds, prolly worth <100 now) and a 5250 which is quite nice :&) > The multi-bay feature was a big selling point for these laptops. You could > remove the floppy or cdrom drive from the laptop's multi-bay, and put in a > second battery for extended road trips. The docking stations had two more > multi-bays, so when docked, a total of 3 were available. Yes :&) FDD, CDROM and batteries, although most of my batteries are dying now :&/ Replacements cost a fortune. > The MPEG capture/playback module is still a unique feature of the 5000 > series. It was a rectangular box with connectors on the rear that plugged > into the laptop's expansion connector. It would also fit into a special > opening on the docking stations. Never did get one of these, maybe I will someday :&) > I haven't yet seen another docking station that offers a MIDI/joystick > port. The docking station also had an ISA slot, and one of the two models > had built-in speakers for audio playback. The amplifier circuit for the > built-in speakers was prone to picking up noise from the data bus, > however. Both of my docking stations have sound/midi/joystick IIRC, both the slim docking station (no ISA expansion) and the bigger one (ISA expansion and better speakers) > Even with all the extras, this laptop line still had some serious > limitations which kept it from becoming as popular as it could have been. > It only offered 16 bit pcmcia card support instead of the 32 bit cardbus > that was available on other laptops at the time. Only 1MB of video ram was > available, with no way to expand it. The BIOS of these machine is also > quite buggy. Compaq never did fix the BIOS bugs, and I doubt they ever > will, since the product line is abandoned now. I've not noticed any problems from BIOS bugs, but there are a few things that annoyed me :&) Mostly problems resulting from plastic getting slightly brittle and the little clips that hold doors shut loosing their plastic spring. Also the sound on my 5100 is dead, but I doubt that's compaq's fault :&) -- Matt --- Web Page: http://knm.org.uk/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 14 18:36:08 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: A story In-Reply-To: <02011418014209.00257@simon> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Tarsi wrote: > > So, what about those "...Apples that he'd known so well from school..."? > > AH, gone away many moons ago, unfortunately. This was before the Age > of Reckoning of the Value of Old Computers and I didn't catch them in > time. In my case, I actually ended up with the Apple systems from one of my old schools. They wanted to switch over to PC machines, and I found some free PC systems for them from a legal firm that was upgrading. I think I still have most of the Apple systems. -Toth From blstuart at bellsouth.net Mon Jan 14 18:52:31 2002 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:54:19 -0600 . <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E0FB@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: In message <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E0FB@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>, Ch ristopher Smith writes: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com] > >> I know that some model of UNIX PC had room for a full-height MFM drive >> under a hump (most only had room for a half-height). It was >> too little, >> too late, but you could drop a lot more than 40Mb inside - maybe 80Mb >> or more! :-) I was never fortunate enough to have an 80MB for it, but my "big" one has a 70MB drive. >In fact, I haven't opened the machine in ages, but you could possibly even run > the external disk as a second drive, given some other slight modifications. >I don't recall whether the UnixPC had any data cable header for a second drive >. Probably not, since it wouldn't have fit inside. There was a 2nd drive mod whose design was circulated and there was also a mod that allowed for bigger drives by supporting a larger number of cylinders. Brian L. Stuart From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 14 18:50:27 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: Compaq LTE 5000 series, slightly OT (was: Re: Xircom NICs (was RE: OT: DELL SUCKS! Re: .... )) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Matt London wrote: > Yeah - the LTE 5000 series is nice - I have a 5100 (now out of use - > anyone in the UK want it with a docking station for a sensible offer - it > cost me about 250 pounds, prolly worth <100 now) and a 5250 which is quite > nice :&) Here in the US, I've picked up both styles of docking stations for around $10 used. The computers can typically be had for around $60-$150 depending on the model and what kinds of upgrades have been installed. > Yes :&) FDD, CDROM and batteries, although most of my batteries are dying > now :&/ Replacements cost a fortune. Yes, they do tend to be a little on the expensive side. I've found these batteries do seem to last longer then the NiCads found in most other laptops made around the same time, however. > > The MPEG capture/playback module is still a unique feature of the 5000 > > series. It was a rectangular box with connectors on the rear that plugged > > into the laptop's expansion connector. It would also fit into a special > > opening on the docking stations. > > Never did get one of these, maybe I will someday :&) I found a scrap dealer with some once, but he wanted *way* too much for them. IIRC, he wanted upwards of $150 each for them about a year ago. > Both of my docking stations have sound/midi/joystick IIRC, both the slim > docking station (no ISA expansion) and the bigger one (ISA expansion and > better speakers) Right, the slim model did not feature the ISA slot. Both models of docking stations also offer a built-in RJ45 ethernet jack and a forward looking IR device. > I've not noticed any problems from BIOS bugs, but there are a few things > that annoyed me :&) Mostly problems resulting from plastic getting > slightly brittle and the little clips that hold doors shut loosing their > plastic spring. Also the sound on my 5100 is dead, but I doubt that's > compaq's fault :&) I've seen several 5000 series machines that would "hang" at bootup for up to several minutes when not in a docking station. They were attempting to find boot devices in multi-bays that are on the docking station. Their boot device order was set properly in the setup menus, but there seems to be a bug with the boot device selection. A couple more issues are related to the cdrom drive. Sometimes the 5000 series won't see the cdrom drive in the computer's built-in multi-bay. I've found that this most often would occur if a disc was in the drive when the machine was turned on. These systems also lack the ability to boot the cdrom drive. I'm not sure why Compaq didn't add this feature. -Toth From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 14 18:21:13 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: Screeching monitor In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Screeching monitor" (Jan 14, 20:19) References: Message-ID: <10201150021.ZM4717@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 14, 20:19, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Hi, I've just been having a go at fixing an old Acorn AKF40 monitor (a > > OK.... Is this better known as something else? I don't think Acorn ever > designed their own monitors, did they? They used Philips or Microvitecs. I think that model is a rebadged Philips VGA. There's a stock LOPT fault on one of those, but I'm not sure if it's the AKF40 or AKF30. One of them also has a stock problem with cracked PCB under the LOPT, due to poor mounting design. > > few months shy of ten years old I'm afraid), which makes a screeching > > sound and fails to provide any display when powered up. Not having done > > OK, the PSU is in pain. It's either very heavily loaded, or not loaded at > all. I found a page with some stock faults listed: "Check Horz O/P transistor for S/C. If OK suspect EHT/LOPTX assembly. Test by substitution. A less common fault is a problem with the over voltage protection circuit. This is a crowbar type across the 28V supply and diodes 6452/6454 type PHF15 (15V 300mW Zeners) and thyristor 7452 type BT151 can fail causing a short circuit. These can fail for no apparent reason or a fault in the regulator circuit causing excessive voltage. If these have failed remove them from the circuit and disconnect the following. Collector of the horizontal output transistor to avoid the possibility of excessive EHT, R3563 feed to frame O/P and R3512 feed to horizontal drive circuits. Connect a meter across the 128V rail and switch on the unit. If the voltage is excessive and does not respond to adjustments with R3414 switch off immediately and examine the regulator circuitry. Transistor 3470 BC558B can also fail and is best tested out of circuit using a transistor tester. If in doubt replace it." -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From allain at panix.com Mon Jan 14 18:47:27 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: Prophylactic replacement of electrolytic capacitors? References: <3C42FBAC.8A896C7@ccp.com> <019401c19d0c$61194920$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <10201141729.ZM4332@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <006f01c19d5e$34d44de0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > The quick and dirty test is to use an *analogue* meter (what > Americans used to call a VOM, not a VTVM) on the ohms > range across the capacitor. The needle should flick violently > across (indicating zero or low resistance) and then fall quickly > (at first) So, the solution is to VOMit! (sorry) So, how does one quantify this? What does failure mode look like. I have some panel meters that I could calibrate... Or... What's wrong with just measuring Voltage vs time for a regulated current supply? John A. From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jan 14 19:41:54 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) In-Reply-To: Re: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) (blstuart@bellsouth.net) References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E0FB@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <15427.35042.744074.343848@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 14, blstuart@bellsouth.net wrote: > There was a 2nd drive mod whose design was circulated and there > was also a mod that allowed for bigger drives by supporting a larger > number of cylinders. Ahh, yes! I remember that now. Didn't it involve replacing the WD1010 with a WD2010 to get the higher cylinder number support, or something along those lines? Dammit, now you guys have me wanting another 3B1 or 7300. *GRRR!) :-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From blstuart at bellsouth.net Mon Jan 14 19:53:24 2002 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 14 Jan 2002 20:41:54 -0500 . <15427.35042.744074.343848@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: In message <15427.35042.744074.343848@phaduka.neurotica.com>, Dave McGuire writ es: >On January 14, blstuart@bellsouth.net wrote: >> There was a 2nd drive mod whose design was circulated and there >> was also a mod that allowed for bigger drives by supporting a larger >> number of cylinders. > > Ahh, yes! I remember that now. Didn't it involve replacing the >WD1010 with a WD2010 to get the higher cylinder number support, or >something along those lines? Yes, as I remember, it was required for one or both of the mods. I still keep my eyes open for cards with 2010s when I'm at hamfests. Brian L. Stuart From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Jan 14 19:49:18 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: DECvoice boards for trade Message-ID: <20020115014918.GA18801@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Greetings, Since I have no access to a T1 telephone line, and hence am unable to use the DECvoice board set in my VAX 4000, consisting of one each of M3135-01, M3135-02 and M3136 boards, I was wondering if anyone's interested in a trade. The bulkhead panel, and cabling to these boards that came with my VAX, will be included. The DECvoice software appears to reside on my system we well. It appears that resellers are asking quite a bit (over US$1,000) for one of these boards. If anyone's interested in making an offer for the set, or individual boards, of cash or trade, then I'm willing to consider offers for trade. Some of the things I'm interested in and may consider towards a trade: - additional memory - large DSSI disks with sleds and front panels - SCSI board - a tape drive and mounting sled/brackets, etc. (preferably DLT) - hub with both BNC and and 10-Base-T connectors Other suggestions are welcome. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Mon Jan 14 21:24:40 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: VAX 7800'S References: <200201141452.JAA39813@deimos.idirect.com> <3C42F7D8.2BE07488@idirect.com> Message-ID: <3C43A0F8.5090908@aurora.regenstrief.org> Jerome Fine wrote: > A message received > > >>WE NEED YOUR HELP! >> >>IF YOU HAVE ANY: >> >>VAX 7800'S >> >>CALL US TODAY !!! >>WE HAVE ORDERS - - WILL PAY TOP $ >> > > It seems like they still need VAX systems to replace to those > lost on September 11th. Has this driven up old VAX prices? > Certainly not VAX 6000-400s. I just bought one for $24.99 :-) -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Jan 14 21:35:50 2002 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: Wire Recorder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13707286906.15.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Wire recorders?] I got my hands on two very old (tube type) wire recorder/players that say they are "Mohawk Message Repeaters". One works and one doesn't, and my sister fixed the working one. I have no clue how old they are or anything about them, but we have two cartridges for them. They were installed in an elevator and used to play "Please stand clear of the door" when the doors opened. I'm playing with the non-working one to see if I can fix it, it appears as though the amplifier or read head is damaged. The tubes are still good, I already checked that. But I don't have lots of time to spend on it. I should note, though, that the working machine was fixed by my sister, and it's her first piece of obsolete consumer electronic equipment she repaired. (Even if it was a simple belt-swap). I was so proud. ^_^ ------- From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Jan 14 21:43:36 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: Wire Recorder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 Penna2@aol.com wrote: > Dear Sir [snippage] > I also have a 1942 Armour research recorder which I have just finished the > restoration. It has a wire reel with some interesting recordings on > it.Unfortunatly also a few breaks and I have not yet found a way of splicing > wire! I can see why they went to tape. Yes, indeed, but from the 30s until tape took hold in the 50s, it was, apart from record-cutting machines, the only game in town. I have several wire recorders, used in my audio restoral and recovery efforts. Apart from very fancy, extremely rare electro-resistive butt-splicers, used mainly by the big commercial producers of wire product back then, the accepted (ugly!) way is to tie the smallest, simplest knot in the wire that you can. If it has become brittle in that spot you may have to snip some. I have tried various glue combinations with poor results. Make the knot *small* or it will hang in the head groove and make a bigger mess. The last machine I found at a Ham Swapmeet had a spool with a recorded speech by President Truman to the NAACP in 1950; it turned out to be the only complete record of a very historic event, and the transcript and a restored CD of it, as well as the original wire, was donated to the Library of Congress. ALL of this is a bit off-topic for the classiccmp list, so please feel free to write me off-list for more info, help, repair parts, etc. Cheers John > Hope to hear from you. > Yours sincerely > John Penna > > From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Jan 14 21:58:03 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: Ohic Scientific new additions to the collection Message-ID: <6d.20a721c7.297502cb@aol.com> Ive been corresponding with a professor from florida who saw my collection, specifically the OSI C1P I had. turns out he had 4 of them used for static demonstrations and they finally arrived to me. 3 of them are C1P models just like the one I had and the last one has a plastic case and looks like an apple //e. they all have modifications like little dials, connectors and switches of which I will find out what they do. too bad I didnt get any disk drives with them. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020114/77993949/attachment.html From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jan 14 22:24:26 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) In-Reply-To: Re: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) (blstuart@bellsouth.net) References: <15427.35042.744074.343848@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15427.44794.215009.193347@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 14, blstuart@bellsouth.net wrote: > Yes, as I remember, it was required for one or both of the mods. > I still keep my eyes open for cards with 2010s when I'm at > hamfests. What sort of cards used them? Any PeeCee HD controllers that I wouldn't mind tearing apart? -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From wpfulmor at dimensional.com Mon Jan 14 22:51:24 2002 From: wpfulmor at dimensional.com (William Fulmor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) In-Reply-To: <15427.44794.215009.193347@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > On January 14, blstuart@bellsouth.net wrote: > > Yes, as I remember, it was required for one or both of the mods. > > I still keep my eyes open for cards with 2010s when I'm at > > hamfests. > > What sort of cards used them? Any PeeCee HD controllers that I > wouldn't mind tearing apart? They're in AT era boards. I have several WD1003-WA2 boards which I have not yet cut up, but I know I've pulled them from other boards including one IBM branded board where the WD2010 was socketed. Bill From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jan 14 23:10:31 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) In-Reply-To: Re: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) (William Fulmor) References: <15427.44794.215009.193347@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15427.47559.46529.870866@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 14, William Fulmor wrote: > > > Yes, as I remember, it was required for one or both of the mods. > > > I still keep my eyes open for cards with 2010s when I'm at > > > hamfests. > > > > What sort of cards used them? Any PeeCee HD controllers that I > > wouldn't mind tearing apart? > > They're in AT era boards. I have several WD1003-WA2 boards which I have > not yet cut up, but I know I've pulled them from other boards including > one IBM branded board where the WD2010 was socketed. Cool, thanks...I will keep my eyes open for some. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From pb at Colorado.EDU Mon Jan 14 22:32:40 2002 From: pb at Colorado.EDU (pb@Colorado.EDU) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: RAM request Message-ID: <200201150432.g0F4WeD28089@morse.Colorado.EDU> >> > 8 - 4MB 72pin SIMMs, 80ns or better, 1M x 32 or 1M x 36 (as >>> long as they all match). These are for my slab to replace the SIMMs >>> I pulled for use in the Dimension board. >> >>Hey, I have 8 pc of 8mb 70ns all matched pulled from ps/2 along w/ >>bits. Might have forgotten because that was long time. > > Thanks but I can't use the 8MB SIMMs. The non-turbo color >slab has a max of 32MB, which is what mine is. The turbo's have a >max of 128MB. > > Jeff >-- Actually, you *can* use the 8MB SIMMs: put them in the Dimension board. I know that NeXT said it maxes out at 32 MB, but it actually will use 8 MB SIMMs very happily, as long as they are not EDO, and you can then put the SIMMs you "stole" from your slab back in the slab, and you'll be ready to go. (I say this from experience: I have 2 Dimension boards, and they both have 64 MB of RAM, with 8 8MB SIMMs each.) Good luck. PB Schechter From rpbell at earthlink.net Mon Jan 14 23:02:50 2002 From: rpbell at earthlink.net (R. P. Bell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #833 References: <200201150136.g0F1aab56669@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <018201c19d81$e21edce0$8c00000a@mfpc> Some wrote: >> IIRC, the general rule of thumb is: >> 8086 -- 68000 >> 80286 -- 68020 >> 80386 -- 68030 >> 80486 -- 68040 > >Yes, and the 80186 -- 68010. >Both existed but were not popular in many systems. Both >equally quite rare in that regard. > >Anyway, I added them for completeness. I've heard the following, to add to that list: Pentium/Pentium II -- PowerPC Pentium III -- PowerPC G3 Pentium IV -- PowerPC G4 FWIW I'd bet a buck there's a LOT of disagreement on the list. Unfortunately, there's just no adequate way to compare the full range of recent and current mprocessors by looking for strict equivalencies. It would be interesting to see a chart covering the relative relationships of processors in PeeCees, Macs, and Minis (including Sun, SGI, RS/6000, etc.). I had to chuckle at the poor dood who was lamenting his $10K investment in a IIcx; most of us cry to think about what we paid for our old Morrow or original IBM PC. What about those poor cats who paid huge $$ for Lisa or other similar, short-lived concept/production models? rb ================= R. P. Bell Email rpbell@earthlink.net From jss at subatomix.com Mon Jan 14 23:29:31 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: A story In-Reply-To: <02011418014209.00257@simon> Message-ID: <20020114232751.L9707-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Tarsi wrote: > > So, what about those "...Apples that he'd known so well from > > school..."? > > AH, gone away many moons ago, unfortunately. This was before the Age of > Reckoning of the Value of Old Computers and I didn't catch them in time. Ah, yes... I lost a TI mini that way, most likely the only pre-Apple-][, non-cash-register computer my old hometown ever had. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From mhstein at canada.com Tue Jan 15 00:53:56 2002 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: [OT] 5" and 6" CRTs needed... Message-ID: <01C19D69.BF7DBCA0@mse-d03> I'm sure I have one, mono, slightly burned, abt 6" if I recall; cute. Trouble is, I can't find it; suspect I left it at the cottage (much more portable than a 14"); how urgent is your need? And it's in Toronto (or would be). Now, if you _really_ only needed a CRT, and not a monitor, would I have some deals for you... :) mike ------------------Original Message--------------- From: Gene Buckle Subject: Re: [OT] 5" and 6" CRTs needed... > > I'm in dire need of a couple VGA 5" and 6" displays. Mono is > > acceptable. I'd like to find them used (but not badly burned) since > > the cost for them new is pretty high. From mhstein at canada.com Tue Jan 15 00:54:47 2002 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (longish) Message-ID: <01C19D69.C363A960@mse-d03> From: jpero@sympatico.ca Subject: Re: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (longish) >Good thing friend has spare printer to fall forward on, --- Ouch; that must hurt... --- >PS: Successfully unclogged 3 epson inkjet printers today w/ very good results. The normal self cleaning is barely ok for minor problems, I always had to resort to brutal unclog methods on epsons that refuses to cooperate. Epson's printheads are about $100CDN. Took me years to develop the correct methods because other normal ways to deal with those epsons doesn't work at *all*. Aside from that, these epsons are very cheap, mechanically is pretty good. --- So, share your secret! mike From dittman at dittman.net Tue Jan 15 01:15:56 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #833 In-Reply-To: <018201c19d81$e21edce0$8c00000a@mfpc> from "R. P. Bell" at Jan 14, 2002 09:02:50 PM Message-ID: <200201150715.g0F7FuV23679@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I had to chuckle at the poor dood who was lamenting his $10K investment in a > IIcx; most of us cry to think about what we paid for our old Morrow or > original IBM PC. What about those poor cats who paid huge $$ for Lisa or > other similar, short-lived concept/production models? I remember when I upgraded my Mac II from 2MB to 5MB. I paid $1200 for four 1MB SIMMs, and that was with a price break of $400. Now 1MB SIMMs are worth next to nothing. I also bought a Mac IIfx, which was an evolutionary dead end. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Jan 15 00:37:14 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: VAX 7800'S References: <20020114234305.J9707-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <00a701c19d8f$13bdbb10$de2c67cb@helpdesk> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 4:13 PM Subject: Re: VAX 7800'S > On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote: > > > Certainly not VAX 6000-400s. I just bought one for $24.99 :-) > > Jeez, you are the most prolific guy I've ever seen here! :-) Any reason they couldn't replace the martyred 7800's with 6000-xxx's? Or is this some very hardware specific thing? Just a thought... Cheers Geoff In Oz From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jan 15 01:05:03 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: VAX 7800'S In-Reply-To: <00a701c19d8f$13bdbb10$de2c67cb@helpdesk> Message-ID: The difference would be large. In speed. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Geoff Roberts wrote: > Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:07:14 +1030 > From: Geoff Roberts > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: VAX 7800'S > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 4:13 PM > Subject: Re: VAX 7800'S > > > > On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote: > > > > > Certainly not VAX 6000-400s. I just bought one for $24.99 :-) > > > > Jeez, you are the most prolific guy I've ever seen here! :-) > > Any reason they couldn't replace the martyred 7800's with 6000-xxx's? Or is > this some very hardware specific thing? > > Just a thought... > > Cheers > > Geoff In Oz > > > From dittman at dittman.net Tue Jan 15 01:05:46 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: VAX 7800'S In-Reply-To: <00a701c19d8f$13bdbb10$de2c67cb@helpdesk> from "Geoff Roberts" at Jan 15, 2002 05:07:14 PM Message-ID: <200201150705.g0F75k023663@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > Certainly not VAX 6000-400s. I just bought one for $24.99 :-) > > > > Jeez, you are the most prolific guy I've ever seen here! :-) > > Any reason they couldn't replace the martyred 7800's with 6000-xxx's? Or is > this some very hardware specific thing? My guess is computing power. The 7800 CPU is the fastest VAX CPU available. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jan 14 23:24:30 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #833 In-Reply-To: Re: classiccmp-digest V1 #833 (R. P. Bell) References: <200201150136.g0F1aab56669@ns2.ezwind.net> <018201c19d81$e21edce0$8c00000a@mfpc> Message-ID: <15427.48398.324290.733982@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 14, R. P. Bell wrote: > I've heard the following, to add to that list: > > Pentium/Pentium II -- PowerPC > Pentium III -- PowerPC G3 > Pentium IV -- PowerPC G4 This is SO far away from accurate I'm not even going to comment on it. > I'd bet a buck there's a LOT of disagreement on the list. Unfortunately, > there's just no adequate way to compare the full range of recent and current > mprocessors by looking for strict equivalencies. It would be interesting to > see a chart covering the relative relationships of processors in PeeCees, > Macs, and Minis (including Sun, SGI, RS/6000, etc.). I agree...They have wildly varying relative strengths and weaknesses...a meaningful general comparison is all but impossible. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From jss at subatomix.com Mon Jan 14 23:43:47 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: VAX 7800'S In-Reply-To: <3C43A0F8.5090908@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <20020114234305.J9707-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Certainly not VAX 6000-400s. I just bought one for $24.99 :-) Jeez, you are the most prolific guy I've ever seen here! :-) -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From rhudson at cnonline.net Mon Jan 14 23:58:19 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: Ohic Scientific ... :^( sad story... References: <6d.20a721c7.297502cb@aol.com> Message-ID: <3C43C4FB.4010000@cnonline.net> While in the Navy I bought a Ohio Scientific computer board. On my last day aboard ship, (It was steaming for a Med cruise and I was not due to short time) I packed off so qickly that I did not realize I had left behind my Ohio Scientific and my Olympus camera. Waaa! oh well, I was soon to be out though. in other news.... What is a good source of HP calculator equipment? If I can find it cheaply enough I would love to get an HP41C, or perhaps a HP-71 or HP-75... Ron. From hansp at aconit.org Tue Jan 15 00:35:59 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: Ohic Scientific ... :^( sad story... References: <6d.20a721c7.297502cb@aol.com> <3C43C4FB.4010000@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <3C43CDCF.6060807@aconit.org> Ron Hudson wrote: > What is a good source of HP calculator equipment? If I can > find it cheaply enough I would love to get an HP41C, or > perhaps a HP-71 or HP-75... These come up on ePay quite regularly, not cheap though ;-) -- hbp From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jan 15 00:05:42 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #833 In-Reply-To: <018201c19d81$e21edce0$8c00000a@mfpc> from "R. P. Bell" at "Jan 14, 2 09:02:50 pm" Message-ID: <200201150605.WAA09042@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I've heard the following, to add to that list: > > Pentium/Pentium II -- PowerPC > Pentium III -- PowerPC G3 > Pentium IV -- PowerPC G4 Iffy comparison, especially since the P4 really isn't all that great compared to its predecessor, while the G4 if given AltiVec code can run rings around its ancestor. I'd say suitably prompted "even a G3" could compete well with all but the fastest x86s. Also, the G1 and G2 PPCs were a mixed bag with regard to relative strengths and merits ... and weaknesses. Apple's strange and sometimes stupid designs didn't help (look at the 6200 series Power Macs). They are a very difficult set of processors to pigeonhole or compare, even amongst each other. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong. -- Oscar Wilde From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Jan 15 00:26:36 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #833 In-Reply-To: <018201c19d81$e21edce0$8c00000a@mfpc> References: <200201150136.g0F1aab56669@ns2.ezwind.net> <018201c19d81$e21edce0$8c00000a@mfpc> Message-ID: <20020115062636.GA19208@rhiannon.rddavis.org> > Some wrote: > >Yes, and the 80186 -- 68010. > >Both existed but were not popular in many systems. Both > >equally quite rare in that regard. Eh? Rare? Not from what I've seen. Quite a few of the old Sun workstations used the 68010 as the CPU, for example, and I've seen 80186 chips used as CPUs used in many devices (not necessarily computers per se, but used in various computer boards and terminal servers, etc.). Of course, perhaps we should just let the chip collectors think that they're rare, and perhaps they'll just be content with collecting a few of them and leaving the rest alone to function in working equipment. :-) Funny thought... how do you suppose the chip collectors feel if IC pin collectors and IC insides collectors (people who might collect chips to take them apart so as to display the innards with the cases discarded) began to appear and start paying more for chips than they were paying? Not that I like these ideas either. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jan 15 00:20:49 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #833 In-Reply-To: Re: classiccmp-digest V1 #833 (R. D. Davis) References: <200201150136.g0F1aab56669@ns2.ezwind.net> <018201c19d81$e21edce0$8c00000a@mfpc> <20020115062636.GA19208@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <15427.51777.154715.936491@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 15, R. D. Davis wrote: > Eh? Rare? Not from what I've seen. Quite a few of the old Sun > workstations used the 68010 as the CPU, for example, and I've seen > 80186 chips used as CPUs used in many devices (not necessarily > computers per se, but used in various computer boards and terminal > servers, etc.). Of course, perhaps we should just let the chip > collectors think that they're rare, and perhaps they'll just be > content with collecting a few of them and leaving the rest alone to > function in working equipment. :-) Indeed, 80186 chips can be found even on relatively recent Seagate SCSI hard drives. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From mhstein at canada.com Tue Jan 15 02:23:10 2002 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: WTB: TMS 4060 RAM or Equivalent Message-ID: <01C19D78.2BDC9FC0@mse-d03> From: "Richard Erlacher" Subject: Re: WTB: TMS 4060 RAM or Equivalent >ISTR that there was an AMD equivalent to this part AM9060; I'm using a bunch of these, but don't really want to throw out the device they're in. AKA Intel 2107, Signetics 2680, National MM5280, uPD411, FWIW Good luck (to the original poster)! mike From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jan 15 06:23:46 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #833 Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225CFB@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I remember when I upgraded my Mac II from 2MB to 5MB. I paid > $1200 for four 1MB SIMMs, and that was with a price break of > $400. Now 1MB SIMMs are worth next to nothing. > > I also bought a Mac IIfx, which was an evolutionary dead end. I bought a Mac IIci, new, w/4MB RAM and an 80MB drive for five kilobucks. I paid a total of about $4000 for the new Mac 512K, w/external 400K drive and Imagewriter. BTW, I got a IIfx free, decomissioned from our office. I think the RAM is maxed, but I'm not sure... does *anyone* have this for a reasonable price? -dq From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 15 07:42:25 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #833 In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225CFB@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > BTW, I got a IIfx free, decomissioned from our office. I > think the RAM is maxed, but I'm not sure... does *anyone* > have this for a reasonable price? Douglas, I don't know what's a "reasonable" price for RAM anymore, but there's a shop here that I like for all things old & odd. Memory they couldn't get for me, they've built to spec. They also carry ICs, EPROMs, SRAM, and all manner of connectors, sockets, cables & doo-dads. They also update their site very often, so call for prices.... M.C. Howard Electronics 800-490-6896 9417 Neils Thompson Dr. Austin, TX 78758 http://www.mchoward.com Doc From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jan 15 08:08:19 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #833 In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225CFB@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> from Douglas Quebbeman at "Jan 15, 2 07:23:46 am" Message-ID: <200201151408.GAA09674@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > BTW, I got a IIfx free, decomissioned from our office. I > think the RAM is maxed, but I'm not sure... does *anyone* > have this for a reasonable price? IIfx RAM is a difficult buy. I initially had hope when I discovered my GVP A530 accelerator for my Amiga 500 also used 64-pin RAM but they are apparently incompatible (too bad since GVP RAM is somewhat more common). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- How are you gentlemen? All your base are belong to us! --------------------- From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jan 15 06:30:55 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: Info request : HP 9892A card reader Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225CFC@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Hi all, > > We have an HP 9892A card reader which appears in decent shape. We would > like to interface it to a PC if possible. > > It is a rebadged Documation M600. If anyone finds a trove of these, count me in for one... I keep hoping that Florida dumps all theirs soon... -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jan 15 06:42:25 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Mac IIci Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225CFE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > > > > But A/UX sucks humongous hairy sweaty donkey balls. > > > > > has anyone every noticed that *nothing* ever sucks > > > > tiny little dainty hairless donkey balls? > > > > I bet tiny little dainty hairless donkeys do... > > > Don't they call those "gerbils"? > > As a professional gerbil and hamster hater, being bitten, crapped on and > peed on by virtually every member of those species I have come in contact > with, that is an insult to little dainty hairless donkeys everywhere. :-P ROFL! And what a nicely-formed paragraph, too! -dq From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Jan 15 07:07:58 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D Message-ID: <200201151307.IAA14070@wordstock.com> Y'all, I am sure you will all be happy to know the following... Dell fields Super Bowl deal Dell Computer announced that it has signed on to be the National Football League's official computer systems provider for the upcoming Super Bowl XXXVI. Dell also signed a deal to be the NFL's hardware supplier for the remainder of 2002. As part of the Super Bowl agreement, the company will provide on-site service and support for computer systems used in Super Bowl operations, which will include some 200 Dell desktops imported to New Orleans from league headquarters. And under the new Dell-NFL hardware agreement, the league will purchase 120 or more PowerEdge 2500 servers and a storage area network. Dell says it has had a sales relationship with the NFL since 1998. --John G. Spooner, ZDNet News And.... TRON Collectors Edition on DVD was released today!! :-D The coolest computer animation of the 80's! Cheers, Bryan Pope From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Jan 15 07:34:45 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D References: <200201151307.IAA14070@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <00d701c19dc9$66f2f3b0$0300a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Pope" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 11:37 PM Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D > And.... TRON Collectors Edition on DVD was released today!! :-D The coolest > computer animation of the 80's! Wasn't the animation done on a 'one off' development of the PDP-11? Foonly? Super Foonly? Cheers Geoff in Oz From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Jan 15 07:27:10 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: TMS 4060 RAM or Equivalent Message-ID: <000801c19dc8$579fe040$6b7b7b7b@ajp> Who needs some? I have 2107, Upd411 and I believe 4060s as well. Allison -----Original Message----- From: M H Stein To: 'ClassicComputers' Date: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 5:25 AM Subject: WTB: TMS 4060 RAM or Equivalent >From: "Richard Erlacher" >Subject: Re: WTB: TMS 4060 RAM or Equivalent > >>ISTR that there was an AMD equivalent to this part > >AM9060; I'm using a bunch of these, but don't really want to >throw out the device they're in. > >AKA Intel 2107, Signetics 2680, National MM5280, uPD411, FWIW > >Good luck (to the original poster)! > >mike > From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Tue Jan 15 08:07:32 2002 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: Ohic Scientific ... :^( sad story... In-Reply-To: <3C43CDCF.6060807@aconit.org> Message-ID: Anyone got any ideas as to how many OSI's got built? c1p? c2?C3? C4? C8? George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Hans B Pufal wrote: > Ron Hudson wrote: > > > What is a good source of HP calculator equipment? If I can > > find it cheaply enough I would love to get an HP41C, or > > perhaps a HP-71 or HP-75... > > > These come up on ePay quite regularly, not cheap though ;-) > > -- hbp > > From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Jan 14 10:07:50 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: Free VAX 11/750 (Dallas) Message-ID: <20020114160750.GD20265@mrbill.net> Free 11/750 for pickup near Dallas. Please contact Alan directly if interested. Bill ----- Forwarded message from Alan Andrews ----- Subject: Re: VAX 11/750 From: Alan Andrews To: Bill Bradford Date: 13 Jan 2002 13:59:55 -0600 On Sun, Jan 13, 2002 at 06:25:48AM -0600, Alan Andrews wrote: > > I know it's not a PDP 11, but I have a VAX 11/750 that's looking for a > > good home. If you know anyone interested, please pass on my email > > address. I'm in Frisco, about 20 minutes north of downtown Dallas. The 11/750 has System Industries hard drives (2 450meg and 1 350meg), disk pack, tape drive, and a DEC remote diagnostic card. I got it from the company that used it for their accounting system before switching to a client/server system in the early 90's. It's been stored in my garage for about five years. I know some of it's history, and it's in good shape, although it hasn't been turned on in ten years. It's free to a good home. ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From hansp at aconit.org Tue Jan 15 08:18:25 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D References: <200201151307.IAA14070@wordstock.com> <00d701c19dc9$66f2f3b0$0300a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: <3C443A31.4070100@aconit.org> Geoff Roberts wrote: >>And.... TRON Collectors Edition on DVD was released today!! :-D The >> coolest computer animation of the 80's! > Wasn't the animation done on a 'one off' development of the PDP-11? Foonly? > Super Foonly? PDP-10 not PDP-11, Foonly is the right name. Not long ago there was a thread on alt.sys.pdp10 discussing the whereabouts of that particular system. No difinitive answer emerged. -- hbp From allain at panix.com Tue Jan 15 07:16:48 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: Ohic Scientific ... :^( sad story... References: <6d.20a721c7.297502cb@aol.com> <3C43C4FB.4010000@cnonline.net> <3C43CDCF.6060807@aconit.org> Message-ID: <003801c19dc6$e3da3b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > What is a good source of HP calculator equipment? If I can > find it cheaply enough I would love to get an HP41C, or > perhaps a HP-71 or HP-75... There used to be a great company called eduCalc, perhaps the best source of HP calculators, new and old. Sorry to say that I learned that it was closed in 1997. I know of no qualified replacement, except possibly Tony. John A. re: http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/columns/educalc.html From allain at panix.com Tue Jan 15 07:23:33 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: No more HP calcs?? References: <6d.20a721c7.297502cb@aol.com> <3C43C4FB.4010000@cnonline.net> <3C43CDCF.6060807@aconit.org> Message-ID: <003c01c19dc7$d53a3920$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Anybody catch this? "On November 1, 2001 (USA time), {HP} announced to the public that {Calculator Operation} was being shut down, effective November 9th. They only had one week notice." -- [ http://www.hpcalc.org/goodbyeaco.php ] John A. From sloboyko at yahoo.com Tue Jan 15 08:39:27 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: WTB: TMS 4060 RAM or Equivalent In-Reply-To: <01C19D78.2BDC9FC0@mse-d03> Message-ID: <20020115143927.66722.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com> If this is the same as a National MM5280, I think Halted Electronics (www.halted.com) has them. I don't think this place is a Jameco quality place, but they are real and I've gotten stuff from them. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jan 15 08:43:49 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D In-Reply-To: <3C443A31.4070100@aconit.org> References: <200201151307.IAA14070@wordstock.com> <00d701c19dc9$66f2f3b0$0300a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020115083819.02e5bd70@pc> At 03:18 PM 1/15/2002 +0100, Hans B Pufal wrote: >PDP-10 not PDP-11, Foonly is the right name. Not long ago there was a thread on alt.sys.pdp10 discussing the whereabouts of that particular system. No difinitive answer emerged. And I always wanted to find the *data* behind Tron, as in the 3D models. I seem to remember meeting a guy who claimed to have worked on Tron at a SIGGRAPH, and I'm sure I must've asked him about the whereabouts of the data, and since I recall no answer, the answer must've been "I have no idea." 3D models can be converted and re-rendered in contemporary software, of course. Given the power of today's hardware, you could make a real-time TRON game today using the original data. :-) Another nifty trick is using the "real" 3D data to make "real" models. I know this was done with some of the plastic models that were created for the seaQuest TV series a while back. The Lightwave 3D models were converted to other formats (using software I'd written and sold) and then converted to molds for plastic models. Similarly, 3D models can be converted to plastic or other solids using various stereolithography techniques. - John From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Jan 15 10:10:30 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: [OT] 5" and 6" CRTs needed... In-Reply-To: <01C19D69.BF7DBCA0@mse-d03> Message-ID: > I'm sure I have one, mono, slightly burned, abt 6" if I recall; cute. > Trouble is, I can't find it; suspect I left it at the cottage (much more > portable than a 14"); how urgent is your need? And it's in Toronto > (or would be). > > Now, if you _really_ only needed a CRT, and not a monitor, would > I have some deals for you... :) Heheh. Thanks Mike. The displays are destined for my F-15C simulator project and any "extra" that show up will be distributed among the Simpits community since I'm not the only one in need of these. I'm in Washington State so I imagine a good sized shipping charge would be applied. g. From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jan 15 09:03:59 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:36 2005 Subject: WTB: TMS 4060 RAM or Equivalent References: <20020115143927.66722.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001a01c19dd5$dce3dc40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but ISTR that the MM5280 is a garden-variety 4116-type. The TMS4060 certainly is not. If somebody wants 4116's, not for modern art, but for an actual application in a working computer, just let me know, because I have more than I'll EVER need. They're yours for the cost of postage. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loboyko Steve" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 7:39 AM Subject: Re: WTB: TMS 4060 RAM or Equivalent > If this is the same as a National MM5280, I think > Halted Electronics (www.halted.com) has them. I don't > think this place is a Jameco quality place, but they > are real and I've gotten stuff from them. > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! > http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ > > From cavador at iprimus.com.au Tue Jan 15 18:06:00 2002 From: cavador at iprimus.com.au (cavador@iprimus.com.au) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: scroungers -- a new chalenge Message-ID: <000601c19e21$966b2c40$98f4a8c0@gameco> Hello Clint, I think you might find what you are looking for at www.UnitechElectronics.com This is virtually the only place on earth that makes cables specific to A1200's. The prices are in Australian Dollars so if you are in the US you can expect to pay approx. half the listed price. Jeff Rose (Site owner & Amiga Distributor) is a good friend of mine. cheers, Keith cavador@iprimus.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020116/58ccc07f/attachment.html From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jan 15 18:47:20 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: Systems wanted Message-ID: Hi there. I am looking for three identical IBM PC Server 310's. I'd prefer the PCI/MCA one, but I'll take the PCI/ISA one. I am also looking for one or two PCI/MCA PC Server 320's. (Part 8640-MD?). Peace... Sridhar From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Jan 15 19:54:31 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: Stuff I want to get rid of... In-Reply-To: <014f01c19e2d$cd938a80$a7469280@Y5F3Q8> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Robert Schaefer wrote: > Got some misc stuff I don't want. > > A few boards pulled from an old PBX: > One marked `LC 96B V 1' and `SYSTEM CONTROL', one marked `LC 78B V 1' & > `PROCESSOR' (AMD 8080A CPU!) & one marked `LC 95C V 4' & `MEMORY 1' (two > banks of 9x uhhhh 1484?, one bank of 8 wide ceramic 24 pin DIPs). The dang > thing weighed a ton, so I couldn't get the whole chassis, but I pulled the > more interesting cards. > > One Sperry PC 384KB memory upgrade, new in box, (handwritten) serial # > 47y791. > > Yours for shipping from zip 43211, or it goes to the trash. > > ja ne! > > Bob > > That reminds me... Free for shipping costs: ~7# of EISA cards SCSI Network RAID at least 15 cards Peter Wallace From rschaefe at gcfn.org Tue Jan 15 19:31:52 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: Stuff I want to get rid of... Message-ID: <014f01c19e2d$cd938a80$a7469280@Y5F3Q8> Got some misc stuff I don't want. A few boards pulled from an old PBX: One marked `LC 96B V 1' and `SYSTEM CONTROL', one marked `LC 78B V 1' & `PROCESSOR' (AMD 8080A CPU!) & one marked `LC 95C V 4' & `MEMORY 1' (two banks of 9x uhhhh 1484?, one bank of 8 wide ceramic 24 pin DIPs). The dang thing weighed a ton, so I couldn't get the whole chassis, but I pulled the more interesting cards. One Sperry PC 384KB memory upgrade, new in box, (handwritten) serial # 47y791. Yours for shipping from zip 43211, or it goes to the trash. ja ne! Bob From rschaefe at gcfn.org Tue Jan 15 20:12:38 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: Stuff I want to get rid of... References: <014f01c19e2d$cd938a80$a7469280@Y5F3Q8> Message-ID: <01f401c19e33$45ca6fa0$a7469280@Y5F3Q8> Oops-- I remembered one more thing. Burroughs B26 CPU box, '186 w/ 256K expansion cart., nothing else. Same deal, yours for shipping from zip 43211, Columbus Ohio, USA. ja ne! Bob From out2sea00 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 15 21:12:36 2002 From: out2sea00 at yahoo.com (Colin Eby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: IBM R390 IPL woes... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020116031236.32232.qmail@web14504.mail.yahoo.com> > It should work, provided you have the license code, > IPL app, and mainframe > image installed. I have a couple of these machines > myself. > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Colin Eby wrote: > > > Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:10:00 -0800 (PST) > > From: Colin Eby > > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: IBM R390 IPL woes... > > > > Folks -- > > > > Tomorrow I pick up the IBM 5362. But I have > another > > obscure piece of hardware I'm playing with. Anyone > > ever hear of an IBM R390. This is an RS/6000 with > an > > SBC mainframe in the MCA. The share IO, but > nothing > > else. I've been rebuilding this thing as my UNIX > > workstation at the office. The problem I'm having > is > > getting the mainframe to IPL (of course). This is > > probably, because -- fool that I am -- I FDISK'd > the > > box and upgraded to AIX5L. Does anyone know if > there's > > a binary compatibility issue with the mainframe > > board's system files, and the newer AIX binary > set? Sridhar -- Thanks, for the note. When I wrote this earlier in the evening, I only had the original disks. After some considerable web searching I found a reference to the P390 ftp site. The reference was not I hasten to add, to be found anywhere on IBM's support pages. The docs in the ftp site don't specifically endorse AIX5L, but it did say the system dumps I've been having were common when upgrading to 4.3.3. And I should therefore upgrade the r390 binaries I had. Low and behold there they were on an anonymous FTP server. And shockingly enough I am now sitting in front of an MVS installation that no longer system dumps all over me. Technically it still doesn't IPL, but I'm positively gleeful anyway. Thanks, Colin Eby Senior Consultant CSC Consulting __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 15 17:22:12 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: TU-58 dumps (was Re: VAX 11/730 Problem) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020115232212.2874.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > PS If you do get a dump, I'd appreciate a copy. I'm archiving all the > TU58s I can find to CD-Rs... I'm doing the same thing. So far, I have about 20 tapes read in. :-( The ones that have no read errors are fine. Most of the tapes take a bit of work (lots of head cleaning and retrying). I have a quantity of 11/750 diagnostic tapes as well as boot tapes/standalone backup tapes. Probably nothing horribly rare (except for partial VMS 3.x upgrade sets), but you never know. We should trade tape titles sometime. > On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, Michael Schneider wrote: > > > Hello to all VAXenfolks, > > > > i do have a problem with a VAX-11/730... > > It is now willing to boot and tries to load it's microcode tape from > > the TU-58 drives... > > But the TU-58's are so battered that i have not been able to read the > > tape. > > > > I have repaced the rubber rollers, but the read/write-heads look, ummm, > > bad! > > > > I have found somewhere some TU-58 simulator software for DOS which > > looks like a promising alternative; i would place a mini-DOS-computer > > inside a VT-102 and route some additional cables to the VAX and be fine. That's one way to do it. You could also mount the "mini-DOS" computer in the 11/730 where you extracted the TU-58 from (depending on which style of VAX you have, it might or might not be easy. If I were going to do this (and I just might someday), I'd consider a Linux-based TU-58 emulator, and stick a tiny 486 in the base of the rack with a serial cable going into the VAX (11/730 or 11/750), a spare serial cable going to either a port on the VAX or a terminal server or the like, as well as an ethernet connection to my LAN, so I could run a shell to monitor the TU-58 tape images - manipulate file names, create "blanks" for writing, that sort of thing. I'd also consider attaching a 4x20 LCD display to the parallel port or a spare serial port, a-la LCDproc, with a menu and a switch or two for easy "tape swapping". An old and slow laptop might also be a good option. Don't need much horsepower to flood a 38400 bps cable with bytes. > > BUT: How do i get the contents of the microcode tape of the tape, into > > a DOS file without access to a working TU-58? As you say... either someone reads it for you or you get an image from someone else of something that's close. > > Is someone on this list able to read the tape? Yes. > > Has someone already made a tape image i could just use? No. I could make one, but I don't have one at present, just real 11/730 console tapes. > > I mean, i have > > a original DEC tape, with serial number and all. I might even come up > > with a license document, if i search long enough... Do you have access to another VAX? I used to cut console tapes all the time for our 11/730 (k-panda when it was in the UUCP maps) - I still have it (and the tapes). The tape from DEC was sub-optimized. I wrote a quick DCL script to write the files in optimal order and sped up boot time to under 3 minutes. It was not an original idea, but it did work *great* (the microprocessor in the TU-58 caches the directory AFAIK, so if you ask for the next sequential file on the tape, it doesn't have to seek back to the front to locate it - you just spin the tape to read it). > > Any help would be greatly welcomed. This old lady is just to beautifull > > to use it as an electric heater only... Did you ever get a tape for your machine (this is an old message, after all)? If not, this past weekend, I happened to run across the box with my old console tapes (which is why I'm writing now). Let me know the numbers off of your tape (since there are different revs of the stuff on the tape, and something on there might or might not be VMS-version dependent). If you ever did get things running, I know it's possible to build new tapes from a running machine. I'd have to find my program on a backup tape; I know I don't have it handy, and that 11/730 is in storage. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de Tue Jan 15 18:14:59 2002 From: ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de (Michael Schneider) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: TU-58 dumps (was Re: VAX 11/730 Problem) In-Reply-To: <20020115232212.2874.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020115232212.2874.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1011140100.19630.18.camel@silke> See below... On Wed, 2002-01-16 at 00:22, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > > PS If you do get a dump, I'd appreciate a copy. I'm archiving all the > > TU58s I can find to CD-Rs... > [snip] > > That's one way to do it. You could also mount the "mini-DOS" computer in > the 11/730 where you extracted the TU-58 from (depending on which style > of VAX you have, it might or might not be easy. If I were going to do > this (and I just might someday), I'd consider a Linux-based TU-58 > emulator, and stick a tiny 486 in the base of the rack with a serial > cable going into the VAX (11/730 or 11/750), a spare serial cable > going to either a port on the VAX or a terminal server or the like, as > well as an ethernet connection to my LAN, so I could run a shell to > monitor the TU-58 tape images - manipulate file names, create "blanks" > for writing, that sort of thing. I'd also consider attaching a 4x20 LCD > display to the parallel port or a spare serial port, a-la LCDproc, with > a menu and a switch or two for easy "tape swapping". An old and slow > laptop might also be a good option. Don't need much horsepower to > flood a 38400 bps cable with bytes. That's more or less what i have in mind. Especially since i now have a spare old Compaq Contura, nice and small. > > > > BUT: How do i get the contents of the microcode tape of the tape, into [snip] > > > I mean, i have > > > a original DEC tape, with serial number and all. I might even come up > > > with a license document, if i search long enough... > > Do you have access to another VAX? I used to cut console tapes all the > time for our 11/730 (k-panda when it was in the UUCP maps) - I still > have it (and the tapes). Yes, but only newer ones, nothing with a tu58. > > The tape from DEC was sub-optimized. I wrote a quick DCL script to > write the files in optimal order and sped up boot time to under 3 > minutes. It was not an original idea, but it did work *great* (the > microprocessor in the TU-58 caches the directory AFAIK, so if you ask > for the next sequential file on the tape, it doesn't have to seek back > to the front to locate it - you just spin the tape to read it). Oh, yes, the original tape is just bloated. But under 3 Minutes? That sounds impressing. > > > > Any help would be greatly welcomed. This old lady is just to beautifull > > > to use it as an electric heater only... > > Did you ever get a tape for your machine (this is an old message, after > all)? If not, this past weekend, I happened to run across the box with > my old console tapes (which is why I'm writing now). Let me know the > numbers off of your tape (since there are different revs of the stuff > on the tape, and something on there might or might not be VMS-version > dependent). No, no tapes up to now. My console tape reads: BE-T173I-ME TU58:34 VAX 11725/739 CONSOLE (c) 1982,84 an was cut Jun21/84. Unfortunately i do not know the exact VMS version installed on my machine, because the only time got it booting i was so exited that i spoiled my notes. Very un-scientific, i know. But i think it is VMS 3.2, IIRC. Or 3.6, that's the label on my "standalon backup"-tape. > > If you ever did get things running, I know it's possible to build new > tapes from a running machine. I'd have to find my program on a backup > tape; I know I don't have it handy, and that 11/730 is in storage. Hmm, yes, i think i even have some documentation about this. I'll have to look. > > -ethan > Again: Any help would be more than appreciated! And, tell me what i can do for you! cheers ms > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! > http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ > -- Michael Schneider email: ms@vaxcluster.de Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de People disagree with me. I just ignore them. (Linus Torvalds) From alex at linuxhacker.org Tue Jan 15 09:11:16 2002 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: Screeching monitor References: <10201150021.ZM4717@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3C444694.60204@linuxhacker.org> Pete Turnbull wrote: > They used Philips or Microvitecs. I think that model is a rebadged Philips There's no indication of who really made it that I can see, just several labels saying "Made in Taiwan Manufactured for Acorn Computers Ltd." > VGA. There's a stock LOPT fault on one of those, but I'm not sure if it's > the AKF40 or AKF30. One of them also has a stock problem with cracked PCB > under the LOPT, due to poor mounting design. The PCB looks sound. I've no idea how to test the transformer itself. > "Check Horz O/P transistor for S/C. I tried that; in the circuit I was getting 18 ohms in both directions across E/C, so suspecting I was actually measuring other components in the circuit I desoldered it. It appears to have (as far as I can tell with my meter) infinite resistance between E and C, 4 M ohms from B to C, and 15 M ohms from B to E. Would I be right in thinking that this transistor is dead? If so, where could I find a replacement? It has written on it an M in a square box, then "D1577", then "PV 19" with an underscore under the 9. > If OK suspect EHT/LOPTX assembly. Test by substitution. I don't have a substitute. Is there another way to test it with just a multimeter? > A less common fault is a problem with the over voltage > protection circuit. This is a crowbar type across the 28V supply and diodes > 6452/6454 type PHF15 (15V 300mW Zeners) and thyristor 7452 type BT151 can > fail causing a short circuit. These can fail for no apparent reason or a > fault in the regulator circuit causing excessive voltage. If these have > failed remove them from the circuit and disconnect the following. Collector > of the horizontal output transistor to avoid the possibility of excessive > EHT, R3563 feed to frame O/P and R3512 feed to horizontal drive circuits. > Connect a meter across the 128V rail and switch on the unit. If the voltage > is excessive and does not respond to adjustments with R3414 switch off > immediately and examine the regulator circuitry. Transistor 3470 BC558B can > also fail and is best tested out of circuit using a transistor tester. If > in doubt replace it." If this had failed could the overvoltage have caused the other faults? Sorry for asking newbie questions. -- ------------ Alex Holden - http://www.linuxhacker.org ------------ If it doesn't work, you're not hitting it with a big enough hammer From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 15 15:22:34 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: Screeching monitor In-Reply-To: <3C444694.60204@linuxhacker.org> from "Alex Holden" at Jan 15, 2 03:11:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3804 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020115/8294b811/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 15 13:20:11 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: Screeching monitor In-Reply-To: <10201150021.ZM4717@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jan 15, 2 00:21:13 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 545 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020115/ed69b31e/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jan 15 19:04:20 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: Screeching monitor In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Screeching monitor" (Jan 15, 19:20) References: Message-ID: <10201160104.ZM5747@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 15, 19:20, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > On Jan 14, 20:19, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, I've just been having a go at fixing an old Acorn AKF40 monitor (a > > > > > > OK.... Is this better known as something else? I don't think Acorn ever > > > designed their own monitors, did they? > > > > They used Philips or Microvitecs. I think that model is a rebadged Philips > > VGA. There's a stock LOPT fault on one of those, but I'm not sure if it's > > >From the component references in the fault description you gave, I'd bet > it's a Philips... I think so too, but I can't be sure. > I think the AKF60 was a Microvitec. It is. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ken at seefried.com Tue Jan 15 17:43:29 2002 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: 68010 & 80186 (was: Re: Mac IIci) In-Reply-To: <200201150136.g0F1aab56669@ns2.ezwind.net> References: <200201150136.g0F1aab56669@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <20020115234329.15604.qmail@mail.seefried.com> >Yes, and the 80186 -- 68010. >Both existed but were not popular in many systems. Both equally >quite rare in that regard. Not entirely true. Clearly the 68010 was quickly eclipsed by the 68020 and thus showed up in relatively few systems. This is different, BTW, than not being popular. OTOH, the 80186 (including the AMD Am186 line) was a wildly successful chip in the embedded systems world. Vast numbers of devices based on the '186 are out there, often because one could use the IBM PC and follow-ons, hardware & software, as development platforms on the (relative) cheap. Ken From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Jan 15 18:33:24 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: 68010 & 80186 (was: Re: Mac IIci) In-Reply-To: <20020115234329.15604.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Ken Seefried wrote: > >Yes, and the 80186 -- 68010. > >Both existed but were not popular in many systems. Both equally > >quite rare in that regard. > > Not entirely true. > > Clearly the 68010 was quickly eclipsed by the 68020 and thus showed up in > relatively few systems. This is different, BTW, than not being popular. > > OTOH, the 80186 (including the AMD Am186 line) was a wildly successful chip > in the embedded systems world. Vast numbers of devices based on the '186 > are out there, often because one could use the IBM PC and follow-ons, > hardware & software, as development platforms on the (relative) cheap. > > Ken > And dont forget that the MAD 1 Computer used a '186... (saw one at Comdex '84 and thought it looked cool) Peter Wallace From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jan 15 19:22:29 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: 68010 & 80186 (was: Re: Mac IIci) References: Message-ID: <001701c19e2c$43c33220$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It's true that the '186 and '188 were VERY widely used. The 68000 was really not nearly so popular, but it looks as though they were similarly popular in the PC world. That market, in the '80's represents a completely insignificant share of the market, however, since many products using processors of the '186/88 class were made in quantities each week equalling the entire PC market. Intel may, if its dominance on the PC market continues, eventually sell as many pentium chips as they'd sold '186's by the end of 1989, but only if they stop selling '186's right now, which they won't. The '186 was so significant that the Soviets even counterfeited the thing for use in their cruise missiles, among other things. The 68000 was a disappointment on the market, not living up to its promise, or even its claims, badly marketed, and too costly for the applications that it did suit. The 68010 was an improvement in some respects, but its main performance hit came when MOT made the decision to punt high performance, as promised by the presence of that "DTACK" signal that ended a bus cycle, in order to make applications engineering easier. The result was that this processor, which could have run quite fast if outfitted with a small amount of cache, had a shortest-cycle of about 500 ns, which was as slow as nearly any other CPU. Further, because of its long opcodes, it required two strokes into memory for an opcode, at least two for the effective address, and two for the data. There were other CPU's at the time that would easily outrun it even though they were only 8-bit types, in many tasks. Because of its architecture and its inability to run fast, on short addresses and data, it ran 8-bit tasks very badly, and Intel's processors looked pretty good by comparison. In fact, the 68K was inherently a better-designed architecture, but the abandonment of the DTACK-enabled fast bus cycle which the early masks could use, hurt them in the market. The 68020 finally seemed to hit the mark, but was quite costly to use. In a fair test of computing power, the 68K would outperform the '186, but most tasks for microprocessors aren't really computing tasks, they're simple signal processing tasks, and not in the sense of "Digital Signal Processing" which is VERY numerically oriented, but in the sense of simple ANDs and ORs, and the like. Had MOT gotten behind the CP/M 68K costing a few hundred dollars, rather than the then (1980) very costly UNIX types, not to mention their own rather weak operating systems, they'd have had a tiger by the tail, because the computer market was ready. MOT wasn't, however. They thought a 6809 was a better choice for home computing. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter C. Wallace" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 5:33 PM Subject: Re: 68010 & 80186 (was: Re: Mac IIci) > On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Ken Seefried wrote: > > > >Yes, and the 80186 -- 68010. > > >Both existed but were not popular in many systems. Both equally > > >quite rare in that regard. > > > > Not entirely true. > > > > Clearly the 68010 was quickly eclipsed by the 68020 and thus showed up in > > relatively few systems. This is different, BTW, than not being popular. > > > > OTOH, the 80186 (including the AMD Am186 line) was a wildly successful chip > > in the embedded systems world. Vast numbers of devices based on the '186 > > are out there, often because one could use the IBM PC and follow-ons, > > hardware & software, as development platforms on the (relative) cheap. > > > > Ken > > > > And dont forget that the MAD 1 Computer used a '186... > > (saw one at Comdex '84 and thought it looked cool) > > Peter Wallace > > From ken at seefried.com Tue Jan 15 17:47:40 2002 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: i386 Memory (was: Re: Mac IIci) In-Reply-To: <200201150136.g0F1aab56669@ns2.ezwind.net> References: <200201150136.g0F1aab56669@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <20020115234741.15614.qmail@mail.seefried.com> From: Chad Fernandez >I wish I had some 16meg simms..... I would have put 256megs in my 386 >:-) Yes my 386 had 16 simm slots, and would take more than 32 megs! Yes, but... I've seen a lot of i386 boards that could take a lot of memory, but many of those boards couldn't cache more than 64MB. Resulted in awfully slow performance. Ken From out2sea00 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 15 18:10:00 2002 From: out2sea00 at yahoo.com (Colin Eby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: IBM R390 IPL woes... In-Reply-To: <200201150136.g0F1aab56669@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <20020116001000.76027.qmail@web14501.mail.yahoo.com> Folks -- Tomorrow I pick up the IBM 5362. But I have another obscure piece of hardware I'm playing with. Anyone ever hear of an IBM R390. This is an RS/6000 with an SBC mainframe in the MCA. The share IO, but nothing else. I've been rebuilding this thing as my UNIX workstation at the office. The problem I'm having is getting the mainframe to IPL (of course). This is probably, because -- fool that I am -- I FDISK'd the box and upgraded to AIX5L. Does anyone know if there's a binary compatibility issue with the mainframe board's system files, and the newer AIX binary set? Thanks, Colin Eby Senior Consultant CSC Consulting __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jan 15 10:18:20 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: RAM request In-Reply-To: <200201150432.g0F4WeD28089@morse.Colorado.EDU> References: <200201150432.g0F4WeD28089@morse.Colorado.EDU> Message-ID: >Actually, you *can* use the 8MB SIMMs: put them in the Dimension board. >I know that NeXT said it maxes out at 32 MB, but it actually will use 8 >MB SIMMs very happily, as long as they are not EDO, and you can then >put the SIMMs you "stole" from your slab back in the slab, and you'll >be ready to go. (I say this from experience: I have 2 Dimension boards, >and they both have 64 MB of RAM, with 8 8MB SIMMs each.) That's true...I recall seeing a number of mentions about that in the past. I've actually gotten a pretty good response on my request and have the 72pin SIMMs covered and half of the 30pin SIMMs. I'll likely leave the Dimension board as-is and repopulate the slab with the 'new' ones. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jan 15 08:57:13 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: Araldite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020115084435.021a5940@pc> At 03:49 AM 1/14/2002 +0000, Matt London wrote: >OTOH, Araldite (an epoxy) works a treat in my experience :&) It often sets >harder than the plastic in the first place! I repaired the hinges on my >compaq LTE5100 with araldite and sail repair tape (ripstop nylon) - worked >a treat :&) What's the exact USA equivalent of Araldite? A quick web search showed that it's used here by name to embed biological specimens for sectioning, but it also appears there are quite a few species of Araldite apart from the five-minute and seven-hour varieties. What color is Araldite? Is it a two-part black-and-white epoxy like "JB Weld" that sets as grey? Or is it clear to amber, like those that come in dual syringes? - John From classiccmp at knm.yi.org Tue Jan 15 10:50:07 2002 From: classiccmp at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: Araldite In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020115084435.021a5940@pc> Message-ID: Hi, > >OTOH, Araldite (an epoxy) works a treat in my experience :&) It often sets > >harder than the plastic in the first place! > > What's the exact USA equivalent of Araldite? A quick web > search showed that it's used here by name to embed biological > specimens for sectioning, but it also appears there are > quite a few species of Araldite apart from the five-minute > and seven-hour varieties. Hum. Good question. Not living in the states, I dunno :&) > What color is Araldite? Is it a two-part black-and-white epoxy > like "JB Weld" that sets as grey? Or is it clear to amber, > like those that come in dual syringes? It's clear to amber, and comes in a couple of packages, either two tubes or dual syringes. -- Matt --- Web Page: http://knm.org.uk/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Tue Jan 15 11:10:16 2002 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: Araldite In-Reply-To: from Matt London at "Jan 15, 2002 04:50:07 pm" Message-ID: <200201151710.JAA19125@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > > What color is Araldite? Is it a two-part black-and-white epoxy > > like "JB Weld" that sets as grey? Or is it clear to amber, > > like those that come in dual syringes? > > It's clear to amber, and comes in a couple of packages, either two tubes > or dual syringes. There must be multiple varieties. The varity I'm familiar with is definitely grey and is mixed 10 parts base to 4 parts hardener. Eric From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jan 15 12:58:25 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: Araldite In-Reply-To: "Eric J. Korpela" "Re: Araldite" (Jan 15, 9:10) References: <200201151710.JAA19125@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <10201151858.ZM5430@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 15, 9:10, Eric J. Korpela wrote: > > > What color is Araldite? Is it a two-part black-and-white epoxy > > > like "JB Weld" that sets as grey? Or is it clear to amber, > > > like those that come in dual syringes? > > > > It's clear to amber, and comes in a couple of packages, either two tubes > > or dual syringes. > > There must be multiple varieties. The varity I'm familiar with is > definitely grey and is mixed 10 parts base to 4 parts hardener. Nope, original Araldite (sets in about an hour and cures fully in 8-24 hours, faster at higher temperatures) and Araldite Rapid (sets in 5-10 minutes, and cures in about an hour) are both clear-to-amber epoxy resins. Both are mixed 50:50; both come as light amber resin and transparent bluish hardener. The company does make other products, including Aerolite, and some other epoxies, perhaps what you've seen is one of those. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Tue Jan 15 16:17:30 2002 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: Araldite In-Reply-To: <10201151858.ZM5430@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from Pete Turnbull at "Jan 15, 2002 06:58:25 pm" Message-ID: <200201152217.OAA25180@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > Nope, original Araldite (sets in about an hour and cures fully in 8-24 > hours, faster at higher temperatures) and Araldite Rapid (sets in 5-10 > minutes, and cures in about an hour) are both clear-to-amber epoxy resins. > Both are mixed 50:50; both come as light amber resin and transparent > bluish hardener. The company does make other products, including Aerolite, > and some other epoxies, perhaps what you've seen is one of those. Just looked it up. The grey stuff I'm talking about is Araldite 2014. There's also Araldite 2013 which is grey in appearance. Apparently there are are lots of Araldites. Araldite 2020 and 2026 are clear. There are a few dozen other Araldites as well. I'm sure the stuff you generically call Araldite has a type number as well. It's possible the type varies depending upon how the epoxy is branded. Eric From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jan 15 19:00:44 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: Araldite In-Reply-To: "Eric J. Korpela" "Re: Araldite" (Jan 15, 14:17) References: <200201152217.OAA25180@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <10201160100.ZM5743@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 15, 14:17, Eric J. Korpela wrote: > Apparently there are are lots of Araldites. Araldite 2020 and 2026 are > clear. There are a few dozen other Araldites as well. I'm sure the stuff > you generically call Araldite has a type number as well. It's possible > the type varies depending upon how the epoxy is branded. It's sold here as "Araldite". Full stop. No number. It's a retail product that's been around for decades (Araldite was invented by Aero Research in the UK and came to fame during WW2; it was sold to Ciba after the war). We can get the numbered types as well, but they're less common; I'd need to go to an engineering (or electronics or microscopy) supplier for most of them. Unfortunately that means I can't tell you what the equivalent number version would be in the States :-( The standard stuff is a 50:50 mix, comes in blue and yellow tubes, and like all epoxies is thermoplastic. It softens at around 150 deg.C. You can vary the mix slightly to make it a little more or less rigid/hard. The normal mix sands/files well. Does that help? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Tue Jan 15 11:06:41 2002 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: Araldite In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020115084435.021a5940@pc> from John Foust at "Jan 15, 2002 08:57:13 am" Message-ID: <200201151706.JAA19035@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > At 03:49 AM 1/14/2002 +0000, Matt London wrote: > >OTOH, Araldite (an epoxy) works a treat in my experience :&) It often sets > >harder than the plastic in the first place! I repaired the hinges on my > >compaq LTE5100 with araldite and sail repair tape (ripstop nylon) - worked > >a treat :&) > > What's the exact USA equivalent of Araldite? A quick web > search showed that it's used here by name to embed biological > specimens for sectioning, but it also appears there are > quite a few species of Araldite apart from the five-minute > and seven-hour varieties. > > What color is Araldite? Is it a two-part black-and-white epoxy > like "JB Weld" that sets as grey? Or is it clear to amber, > like those that come in dual syringes? Yes, Araldite is a grey epoxy. We use Scotch-Weld 2216 structural epoxy as essentially an equivalent. We also use Scotch-Weld 1838 Green which has better TML and CVCM where contamination is an issue. If any of these doesn't set harder than a typical plastic, you've mixed it wrong. 2216 is very good when you need to bond a plastic like PEEK. I thought the primary application of JB Weld was for metals? Eric From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 15 15:26:05 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: Araldite In-Reply-To: <200201151706.JAA19035@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Eric J. Korpela wrote: > 2216 is very good when you need to bond a plastic like PEEK. I thought > the primary application of JB Weld was for metals? Umm, that's what they _sell_ it for. The real primary application is with a spatula. Couldn't resist. I use JB weld anytime I need high-stress bonding. It stands up to vibration & flexure better than any other stickum I know. It IS kind of ugly, though. Doc From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 15 13:55:06 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: Araldite In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020115084435.021a5940@pc> from "John Foust" at Jan 15, 2 08:57:13 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1140 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020115/ebea61f3/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jan 15 10:55:04 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: No more HP calcs?? In-Reply-To: No more HP calcs?? (John Allain) References: <6d.20a721c7.297502cb@aol.com> <3C43C4FB.4010000@cnonline.net> <3C43CDCF.6060807@aconit.org> <003c01c19dc7$d53a3920$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <15428.24296.984034.528678@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 15, John Allain wrote: > Anybody catch this? Better stock up while you can. The suits are on a rampage to stamp out anything that's cool or useful. "What? Those weird old calculators? They don't run microsoft products...discontinue them! Oh, and guys, don't you think we all need raises next month?" *grumble* -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 15 13:41:25 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: Ohic Scientific ... :^( sad story... In-Reply-To: <3C43C4FB.4010000@cnonline.net> from "Ron Hudson" at Jan 14, 2 09:58:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1004 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020115/bf984b3c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 15 13:50:31 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: No more HP calcs?? In-Reply-To: <003c01c19dc7$d53a3920$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Jan 15, 2 08:23:33 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 757 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020115/74b0f4aa/attachment.ksh From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Jan 15 11:16:11 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: WTB: TMS 4060 RAM or Equivalent In-Reply-To: <001a01c19dd5$dce3dc40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but ISTR that the MM5280 is a garden-variety > 4116-type. The TMS4060 certainly is not. No, the MM5280 is a 4Kx1 22 pin .4" DRAM. I think that you are thinking of the MM5290. > > If somebody wants 4116's, not for modern art, but for an actual application in > a working computer, just let me know, because I have more than I'll EVER need. > They're yours for the cost of postage. > > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Loboyko Steve" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 7:39 AM > Subject: Re: WTB: TMS 4060 RAM or Equivalent > > > > If this is the same as a National MM5280, I think > > Halted Electronics (www.halted.com) has them. I don't > > think this place is a Jameco quality place, but they > > are real and I've gotten stuff from them. > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! > > http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ > > > > > > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jan 15 11:57:39 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: WTB: TMS 4060 RAM or Equivalent References: Message-ID: <001401c19dee$1f500640$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yeah .... I think you're right ... it's hell getting old ... even the old memory cells are getting leaky. Nevertheless, If somebody wants 4116's, not for modern art, but for an actual application in a working computer, just let me know, because I have more than I'll EVER need. I've still got a one or two boards with 288 4116's per board and two or three with 192 each. They're yours for the cost of postage. regards, Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter C. Wallace" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 10:16 AM Subject: Re: WTB: TMS 4060 RAM or Equivalent > On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but ISTR that the MM5280 is a garden-variety > > 4116-type. The TMS4060 certainly is not. > > No, the MM5280 is a 4Kx1 22 pin .4" DRAM. I think that you are thinking of the > MM5290. > > > > > > If somebody wants 4116's, not for modern art, but for an actual application in > > a working computer, just let me know, because I have more than I'll EVER need. > > They're yours for the cost of postage. > > > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Loboyko Steve" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 7:39 AM > > Subject: Re: WTB: TMS 4060 RAM or Equivalent > > > > > > > If this is the same as a National MM5280, I think > > > Halted Electronics (www.halted.com) has them. I don't > > > think this place is a Jameco quality place, but they > > > are real and I've gotten stuff from them. > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! > > > http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Peter Wallace > Mesa Electronics > > From mythtech at Mac.com Tue Jan 15 13:17:09 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: Zebra system Message-ID: in case anyone cared (who knows with this group sometimes) The Zebra computers I had that ran Pick were "Zebra 2500" made by General Automation. Now that I am back in my office, I just looked at the manuals under my desk. If anyone wants them, the manuals are available (I don't really want them for anything). Best offer takes them, minimum offer of cost of shipping (from Ridgewood, NJ 07450, or you can pick them up). There are two 3" binders with assorted smaller manuals clipped into them. Most of the manuals seem to be about Pick more than about the Zebra machines. If anyone wants a list of what the smaller manuals are, let me know and I can flip thru and write down the names. -chris From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 15 13:26:48 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: Prophylactic replacement of electrolytic capacitors? In-Reply-To: <006f01c19d5e$34d44de0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Jan 14, 2 07:47:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1501 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020115/060bf44a/attachment.ksh From kapteynr at cboe.com Tue Jan 15 15:14:36 2002 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: Prophylactic replacement of electrolytic capacitors? Message-ID: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF0CE02B5E@msx1.cboe.com> Tony: You first question is answered by your second question. The reason that I propose to "insulate the computer from the world" is to solve the first problem that you pointed out: "applying the reforming voltage ... to random points in the logic" If the computer itself was "insulated from the world", the chasis would be able to float so that no actual voltage was applied to any circuit other than the capacitor being reformed. You would need to be sure that you did not even touch the computer during the process. If my theory actually works -- it could save a lot of trouble for computer restorers. My assumption is that the two sides of the capacitor are isolated from each other. This seems like a reasonable assumption to me. But, just in case, I thought I should check with those of you that might have more experience rehabilitating old computers. Perhaps I just need to find something less precious than my Altair to try it out on .... Why don't I want to unsolder the capacitors ? My experience is that I can do a lot of damage unsoldering things. My soldering skills are not as good as they were when I put the Altair together 25 years ago. My fingers and eyes do not seem to work as well as they did back then either. Perhaps I just need to get myself one of those new high-tech temperature controlled soldering irons. Tony: Reading your later messages, I notice that you recommended using a VOM meter in the Ohms mode to test the caps. I have always avoided the Ohms mode of a VOM when working with TTL circuits. The VOM applies a voltage to its test leads when it is in Ohms mode. As I understand it, delicate circuits an actually be damaged by these meters. I have not worked with hardware in years though. Maybe the modern VOM meters are safe. -Rob -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell [SMTP:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 6:09 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Prophylactic replacement of electrolytic capacitors? > > I have not yet tried this yet -- > In theory, electrolytics can be re-formed. > There is a very thin aluminum oxide layer that disappears after a long time. > Running current through the cap will rebuild the insulating layer > until current will no longer go through it. OK, yes, reforming can work... > > I want to reform the original capacitors in my Altair "in place" -- > i.e., without unsoldering them. Why do you not want to desolder them? It'll do a lot less damage than applying the reforming voltage (a little above the working voltage of the cap) to random points in the logic. For example, there are likely to be some 16V electrolytics between the +5V line and ground. Do you seriously want to try running TTL at 18V? Desolder the darn thigns! > > I have the following setup in mind: > > 1. Insulate the computer from the world -- unplug it and put it on a > rubber table. What's the point in doing this? > 2. Use ultra mini test clips to connect to both leads of a capacitor. > 3. Connect the test leads to one of those lab power supplies that have adjustable DC voltage and a milli-ammeter. > 4. Connect + on the lab power supply to + on the capacitor (very important). > 5. Start at zero voltage and increase slowly while looking at the ammeter. > 6. Stop increasing the voltage when the ammeter reads anything more than a few milliamps. > (If it draws too much current, the capacitor will heat up and may blow up) I would include a current limiting resistor (a few k) in series with the cap. And please desolder it! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 15 17:08:07 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: Prophylactic replacement of electrolytic capacitors? In-Reply-To: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF0CE02B5E@msx1.cboe.com> from "Rob Kapteyn" at Jan 15, 2 03:14:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3907 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020115/25da9e75/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 15 13:48:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: Ohic Scientific ... :^( sad story... In-Reply-To: <003801c19dc6$e3da3b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Jan 15, 2 08:16:48 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1499 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020115/d9597e0b/attachment.ksh From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 15 14:19:53 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) In-Reply-To: <10201142345.ZM4647@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20020115201953.89362.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> --- Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Jan 14, 14:56, Bruce Robertson wrote: > > > Yes, I seem to remember that with the 68000, there was an interaction > > with the Bus Fault signal... something to do with what state got saved > > on the stack; I don't remember the exact details After a bus fault, there was not enough information on the stack to properly do an instruction restart from where the bus-fault occured. > Oops, I forgot about that. You're right; the 68010 saves slightly more > state on the stack than the early 68000. I have a feeling that was fixed > in later 68000; some traps save more state than others. Not as far as I know... the quantity of bytes pushed on the stack should be constant for a given member of the 68K family. A lot of older software for the Amiga that did things with the stack (debugging tools, mostly) assumed certain things relating to the stack - it became confused on the '010 and up because the number of bytes did change for certain traps (like bus error). I have the details at home, not with me, in my Motorola books, or I'd post them here. Eventually, people learned to ask the OS what was going on, rather than paw through the stack indescriminantly, kinda like when people got burned on the first Fatter Agnus Amigas - 1Mb of CHIP and 0Mb of FAST RAM - broke all kinds of software that asked for a buffer of FAST RAM instead of "fastest available RAM". > You can't get 68010s any more, unless you can find old stock somewhere > :-( > You can still get 68000s and 68020s. That's not surprising. Even when they were current, we had a hard time getting 68010 chips for our products. We paid $45 each for them at a time when the 68000P8 was about $3 (eventually, I found them at a surplus/overstock electronics dealer for $10). At the moment, I have dozens of 68000L8s and one tube of 68010P10s. I hope I never have to look for any more 68010s. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 15 14:41:03 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: Need some odd memory - 8Mb *30* pin SIMMs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020115204103.6580.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> I have an older "Planar" brand integrated computer - 486, wall bracket, 9" LCD, 2 x PCMCIA, 1 x ISA. The motherboard is identical to some I have in some "Network PCs" built into a keyboard housing - a few inches square, one power connector (1/2 of an AT connector), 34-pin _and_ laptop floppy connector, 40 and 44 pin IDE, and 4 30 pin SIMM sockets. The trick about the RAM is that these motherboards can take 2-chip 30-pin SIMMs (1Mb, 4Mb, no parity) _and_ 4-chip 30-pin SIMMs (2Mb, 8Mb, no parity). I have three sets of 2Mb SIMMs and one set of 4Mb SIMMs that are 1/2 populated. Absolutely worst case, I sacrifice a 16Mb 72-pin SIMM and migrate the chips to the empty spots on my 4Mb SIMMs. I'd rather not (because it a bit of work, and I don't know how to move the 0 Ohm resistors to have the SIMMs tell the motherboard that they have more RAM). Has anyone seen 8Mb 30-pin SIMMs? If I hadn't seen these myself, I wouldn't have believed they exist. I'll post a URL to pictures if I have to. I'd rather run Linux on a 32Mb machine than a 16Mb machine. That's my motivation. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Jan 15 16:13:06 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: OT: scaffolding In-Reply-To: <01C157FF.AEA96AA0@mse-d03> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020115160942.023b8678@ubanproductions.com> Ok, so since this group seems to be into most everything, including the occasional classic computer related topic, I am wondering if anyone has suggestions as to the source of building scaffolding here in the midwest (chicago) area? I need enough sections to do work under the eves of my two story house, which means about 30'. --tom From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Jan 15 16:46:39 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: OT: scaffolding In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020115160942.023b8678@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > Ok, so since this group seems to be into most everything, including > the occasional classic computer related topic, I am wondering if > anyone has suggestions as to the source of building scaffolding > here in the midwest (chicago) area? I need enough sections to do > work under the eves of my two story house, which means about I'd suggest posting to the newsgroup, alt.home.repair, using a vintage computer system. There are lots of helpful there. -jarai. From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Jan 15 16:48:01 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: OT: scaffolding In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020115160942.023b8678@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <200201152248.QAA17471@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > Ok, so since this group seems to be into most everything, including > the occasional classic computer related topic, I am wondering if > anyone has suggestions as to the source of building scaffolding > here in the midwest (chicago) area? I need enough sections to do > work under the eves of my two story house, which means about 30'. > > --tom > Well, I drove through Chicago once. And I saw that Blues Brothers movie a few times. http://www.chicago-construction.net/search/s-htms/scaff.htm -Lawrence LeMay From rschaefe at gcfn.org Tue Jan 15 19:05:18 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: scaffolding (back on topic!) References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020115160942.023b8678@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <012c01c19e2a$11e32b40$a7469280@Y5F3Q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Uban" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 05:13 PM Subject: OT: scaffolding > Ok, so since this group seems to be into most everything, including > the occasional classic computer related topic, I am wondering if > anyone has suggestions as to the source of building scaffolding > here in the midwest (chicago) area? I need enough sections to do > work under the eves of my two story house, which means about 30'. There's an outfit around here (Columbus, Ohio) named Waco that rents scaffolding. It's a national chain, so there might be one around you. IIRC they set it up and everything, but they may not want to rent to someone without the Proper Training. You could call a local construction outfit and ask them if they rent from anybody. $home_improvement_store may also rent them. Maybe a walkboard on jacks like the vinyl siding guys use would work? Lean two ladders against the wall, set the jacks on 'em, and lay a plank across? Scary in the middle of the span but a lot cheaper, time-wise as well as dollar-wise Obontopic: I just picked up a SBC Z80 from Lee Hart on comp.os.cpm. It appears to be an embedded controller card from something-- it slids into a chassis and connects to a wirewrap 100-pin connector. It's got `COLUMBIA 20002' etched on it, and `20002AS REV A' screened on it. 2716 EPROM, 9x 0416's, 8255, & 2x 8251. Anyone know what it came out of? > > --tom Bob From donm at cts.com Tue Jan 15 19:10:37 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: OT: scaffolding In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020115160942.023b8678@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > Ok, so since this group seems to be into most everything, including > the occasional classic computer related topic, I am wondering if > anyone has suggestions as to the source of building scaffolding > here in the midwest (chicago) area? I need enough sections to do > work under the eves of my two story house, which means about 30'. Rent it, Tom, at that height you want something sturdy and stable! - don From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jan 15 19:28:45 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:37 2005 Subject: OT: scaffolding In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > Ok, so since this group seems to be into most everything, including > the occasional classic computer related topic, I am wondering if > anyone has suggestions as to the source of building scaffolding > here in the midwest (chicago) area? I need enough sections to do > work under the eves of my two story house, which means about 30'. How high can you stack Dells? From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Jan 15 14:32:29 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (longish) In-Reply-To: <200201150136.g0F1aab56669@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: Tothwolf wrote: >Did you try flexing this cable while checking its resistance? I've >replaced a few similar cables in other printers that had intermittent >breaks in the conductors when they were flexed a certain way. will try it. The cable was near-zero resistance,in a write-head position about halfway across the page, so I don't think that's it. Also the missing line of pixels is all the way across the page, so it's not an intermittent open over the range of motion across the page. >Good luck with the glue, super glue and glue designed for polystyrene >plastics does not bond ABS plastics very well. Yeah, I know. I was being a bit facetious about the "good as new". >A cheap transistor checker? A multimeter can sometimes be used, but it >helps to have the pinout and specs for the transistor on hand. Hm. Replacing all of them only runs about $4.50. But Tony suggested a 1st-order test with my VOM (see below). >A dull knife hit with the same >rubber hammer on the glued seams can also work, This brick seems to have no glue. On the "wall" side (with the plug blades sticking out), it has three *deep* holes with what look like black painted metal or hard plastic beads at the bottom. Those act like bolts that are holding it together. I felt the label, no screw heads obvious under it, but I'll peel it up and check again. It's not right anyway, output is nowhere near the 9V it claims :-( . > 4) What am I likely to find toasted in there? >take an ohmmeter and see what the primary and secondary winding >resistances are. OK, will try it if/when I get the thing open. >....simply replace the whole brick. What's a good source for ancient Mac parts at bargain prices? >Of course, if you own a coil winding >machine and have the proper wire on hand, Um..... What's a good source for ancient Mac parts at bargain prices? -------- Matt London suggested: >OTOH, Araldite (an epoxy) works a treat in my experience If everything else starts working but the cover pieces won't stay together, I'll try it. ---------- Tony Duell said: >How many dots is this printhead? 25 connections could be 24 dots + common >or sowething like that. I would have suspected 1 driver transistor per >dot, though, and 9 dots seems very small for a modern-ish inkjet printer. Either 8 or 9. I think 8, but don't have any good evidence for that other than the row of 9 (what look like) driver transistors, of which one is slightly offset. 8 pixels would just about square with the width of the missing row vs. the distance between rows when I try to print a solid black block, but 9 might work too. The printer is 1991-93 era (about?) and was 1st generation ink-jet for Apple. I guessed 8 pixels based on the number of big wide traces coming across the ribbon cable and on the theory that it takes one big wide trace per pixel. Do they do some wizardry in the print head where one driver drives 3 pixels, but serially, or some such? >There's no easy way of telling. At least not without seeing the machine, >which is kind of difficult :-) I have a digital camera which produces .jpeg file pictures, about 450kbytes/picture. I could let you see images of many parts of it, if you can decode jpegs. Alternately, I have the shipping carton for it, so it becomes a matter of whether I'll pay more for 2-way shipping to London or for the parts I fry trying to debug the thing.... >Is this AC or DC? In other words is the wall-wart just a transformer, or >does it contain a rectifier and smoothing cap as well? I made both measurements DC. I never thought to check AC before breaking it, as the label said DC output. I also never thought to check AC after breaking it. I did try the DC measurement backward, after it broke, and it definitely had (about) a 0.2 V DC level on it, same sense as the correct output had been before. >Once you get inside, it's easy to check/replace . I'll look forward to it. Is it easy to identify? >Could well be. Those sound like printhead drivers. I'd be inclined to >trace all the connections from the printhead ribbon cable connector to >see where they end up, though. :-) Uh oh. Tony is trying to educate me, I'll bet. What was it Huck Finn said about Aunt Polly? OK, I'll give it a shot. >Read that as 2SB1243 -- which is not in 'Towers International Transistor >Selector'. Can you check that number, please. In fact, please post all >markings on the original transistors. I thought I did, unless there are more markings on the side against the PC board? I'll look again. >A good first check is to desolder them and then use the ohmmeter function >(on an analogue VOM) or diode test function (on a DMM) to check that the >base-emitter junction and base-collector junction test as diodes. And >that the 'resistance' between the collector and emitter is very high both >ways round. I knowed it, he's a-tryin' to eddicate me! :-) OK, I'll dig out the soldering iron. >To find out which pin in base, which is collector, etc, you either have >to look the transistor up in a databook ('Towers International Transistor >Selector' is a well-known one in the UK that most hardware hackers have >on their bench) or trace out enough of the surrouding circuitry to work >out at least which pin is the base. I think I get to cheat. I remember seeing "E", "C", and "B" markings on the PCB. ---------- Pete Turnbull said: >Yes, it's a PNP power trannie, in an ATV package, which is a bit like a >TO220 but without the metal tab. It has a beveled edge on the front top, >instead of a metal tab on the back. This sounds familiar. >Pin order is ECB (opposite of the common TO220). That is what I remember from the board, though I'll check. >Near equivalent 2SD1864. Thanks! I'll comparison-shop for them both. -------- All within 24 hours. Is this a *great* list to be on or what? Will work on collecting info tonight, responses tomorrow. Thanks very much! - Mark From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 15 16:54:38 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (longish) In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Jan 15, 2 02:32:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 6263 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020115/097e8982/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jan 15 18:08:12 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (longish) In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (longish)" (Jan 15, 22:54) References: Message-ID: <10201160008.ZM5694@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 15, 22:54, Tony Duell wrote: > > >Read that as 2SB1243 -- which is not in 'Towers International Transistor > > >Selector'. Can you check that number, please. In fact, please post all > > >markings on the original transistors. > > > > I thought I did, unless there are more markings on the side against the PC > > board? I'll look again. > > Peter has already posted some info on this transistor. My 'Towers', > normally a good reference for obscure transistors, has let me down... OK, > it's not a particularly recent edition... Towers is excellent, and I'd not be without my well-thumbed copy. I suppose I should buy a newer one some day. However, it seems like every time someone in Japan or other some other parts of the Far east designs a circuit, they design or specify a new transistor for it -- a transistor that is almost identical to some existing device, but has with some minor, often trivial, tweak. I suppose it may save some corporation a fraction of a yen on each of hundreds of thousands of units. Or perhaps the way it works is that a designer says "I need a transistor with the following parameters..." and someone makes a batch to order rather than using an existing design (for which they have no stock, because of just-in-time stocking) and the made-to-order gets a unique number, more like a batch number than a type number. That's why I bought the Japanese manuals (there's one for FETs and one for diodes as well as the transistor one), and more particularly, why I posted the main operating parameters. There are probably dozens of relatively common types that could be used as substitutes for a 2SB1243. If you need one, it's just a question of looking in your favourite sales catalogue and going down the list until you see something close enough. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From donm at cts.com Tue Jan 15 19:22:48 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (longish) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Mark Tapley wrote: > Tothwolf wrote: > > >Did you try flexing this cable while checking its resistance? I've > >replaced a few similar cables in other printers that had intermittent > >breaks in the conductors when they were flexed a certain way. > > will try it. The cable was near-zero resistance,in a write-head position > about halfway across the page, so I don't think that's it. Also the missing > line of pixels is all the way across the page, so it's not an intermittent > open over the range of motion across the page. Frankly, if it is always in the same place in lines of type, the cable deserves thorough investigation! - don > >Good luck with the glue, super glue and glue designed for polystyrene > >plastics does not bond ABS plastics very well. > > Yeah, I know. I was being a bit facetious about the "good as new". > > >A cheap transistor checker? A multimeter can sometimes be used, but it > >helps to have the pinout and specs for the transistor on hand. > > Hm. Replacing all of them only runs about $4.50. But Tony suggested a > 1st-order test with my VOM (see below). > > >A dull knife hit with the same > >rubber hammer on the glued seams can also work, > > This brick seems to have no glue. On the "wall" side (with the plug blades > sticking out), it has three *deep* holes with what look like black painted > metal or hard plastic beads at the bottom. Those act like bolts that are > holding it together. I felt the label, no screw heads obvious under it, but > I'll peel it up and check again. It's not right anyway, output is nowhere > near the 9V it claims :-( . > > > 4) What am I likely to find toasted in there? > > >take an ohmmeter and see what the primary and secondary winding > >resistances are. > > OK, will try it if/when I get the thing open. > > >....simply replace the whole brick. > > What's a good source for ancient Mac parts at bargain prices? > > >Of course, if you own a coil winding > >machine and have the proper wire on hand, > > Um..... What's a good source for ancient Mac parts at bargain prices? > > -------- > > Matt London suggested: > > >OTOH, Araldite (an epoxy) works a treat in my experience > > If everything else starts working but the cover pieces won't stay together, > I'll try it. > > ---------- > > Tony Duell said: > > >How many dots is this printhead? 25 connections could be 24 dots + common > >or sowething like that. I would have suspected 1 driver transistor per > >dot, though, and 9 dots seems very small for a modern-ish inkjet printer. > > Either 8 or 9. I think 8, but don't have any good evidence for that other > than the row of 9 (what look like) driver transistors, of which one is > slightly offset. 8 pixels would just about square with the width of the > missing row vs. the distance between rows when I try to print a solid black > block, but 9 might work too. > > The printer is 1991-93 era (about?) and was 1st generation ink-jet for > Apple. I guessed 8 pixels based on the number of big wide traces coming > across the ribbon cable and on the theory that it takes one big wide trace > per pixel. Do they do some wizardry in the print head where one driver > drives 3 pixels, but serially, or some such? > > >There's no easy way of telling. At least not without seeing the machine, > >which is kind of difficult :-) > > I have a digital camera which produces .jpeg file pictures, about > 450kbytes/picture. I could let you see images of many parts of it, if you > can decode jpegs. > > Alternately, I have the shipping carton for it, so it becomes a matter of > whether I'll pay more for 2-way shipping to London or for the parts I fry > trying to debug the thing.... > > >Is this AC or DC? In other words is the wall-wart just a transformer, or > >does it contain a rectifier and smoothing cap as well? > > I made both measurements DC. I never thought to check AC before breaking > it, as the label said DC output. I also never thought to check AC after > breaking it. I did try the DC measurement backward, after it broke, and it > definitely had (about) a 0.2 V DC level on it, same sense as the correct > output had been before. > > >Once you get inside, it's easy to check/replace . > > I'll look forward to it. Is it easy to identify? > > >Could well be. Those sound like printhead drivers. I'd be inclined to > >trace all the connections from the printhead ribbon cable connector to > >see where they end up, though. > > :-) Uh oh. Tony is trying to educate me, I'll bet. What was it Huck Finn > said about Aunt Polly? OK, I'll give it a shot. > > >Read that as 2SB1243 -- which is not in 'Towers International Transistor > >Selector'. Can you check that number, please. In fact, please post all > >markings on the original transistors. > > I thought I did, unless there are more markings on the side against the PC > board? I'll look again. > > >A good first check is to desolder them and then use the ohmmeter function > >(on an analogue VOM) or diode test function (on a DMM) to check that the > >base-emitter junction and base-collector junction test as diodes. And > >that the 'resistance' between the collector and emitter is very high both > >ways round. > > I knowed it, he's a-tryin' to eddicate me! :-) > OK, I'll dig out the soldering iron. > > >To find out which pin in base, which is collector, etc, you either have > >to look the transistor up in a databook ('Towers International Transistor > >Selector' is a well-known one in the UK that most hardware hackers have > >on their bench) or trace out enough of the surrouding circuitry to work > >out at least which pin is the base. > > I think I get to cheat. I remember seeing "E", "C", and "B" markings on the > PCB. > > ---------- > > Pete Turnbull said: > > >Yes, it's a PNP power trannie, in an ATV package, which is a bit like a > >TO220 but without the metal tab. It has a beveled edge on the front top, > >instead of a metal tab on the back. > > This sounds familiar. > > >Pin order is ECB (opposite of the common TO220). > > That is what I remember from the board, though I'll check. > > >Near equivalent 2SD1864. > > Thanks! I'll comparison-shop for them both. > > -------- > > All within 24 hours. Is this a *great* list to be on or what? > Will work on collecting info tonight, responses tomorrow. Thanks very much! > - Mark > > > > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jan 15 14:34:05 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #833 In-Reply-To: <018201c19d81$e21edce0$8c00000a@mfpc> References: <200201150136.g0F1aab56669@ns2.ezwind.net> <018201c19d81$e21edce0$8c00000a@mfpc> Message-ID: >original IBM PC. What about those poor cats who paid huge $$ for Lisa or >other similar, short-lived concept/production models? Hey, I'd love to have a one-off or small production concept design...then again, I've always gone for the offbeat stuff. There's always something interesting there. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jan 15 14:36:38 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #833 In-Reply-To: <018201c19d81$e21edce0$8c00000a@mfpc> References: <200201150136.g0F1aab56669@ns2.ezwind.net> <018201c19d81$e21edce0$8c00000a@mfpc> Message-ID: >I've heard the following, to add to that list: > >Pentium/Pentium II -- PowerPC >Pentium III -- PowerPC G3 >Pentium IV -- PowerPC G4 Man, I'd love to see a G4 running at the same clockspeed as the PIV...the PIV would be smoked so bad it'd be unreal. As it is, the G4 does a pretty good job holding it's own considering it's running at 1/2 to 1/3 the clockspeed, not to mention a lot lower power consumption and heat generation. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jan 15 14:48:10 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #833 In-Reply-To: <15427.51777.154715.936491@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <200201150136.g0F1aab56669@ns2.ezwind.net> <018201c19d81$e21edce0$8c00000a@mfpc> <20020115062636.GA19208@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <15427.51777.154715.936491@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: > Indeed, 80186 chips can be found even on relatively recent Seagate >SCSI hard drives. Used to see the 80186 on intelligent caching disk controllers quite a bit. Though popular for smart peripheral controllers, it was used on only a small number of systems as the main CPU. I've also got a CPU upgrade card for the XT that uses the 80186. According to Intel's own datasheet, it was an enhanced 8086-2 with a number of onboard devices that previously required seperate chips and that it offered roughly twice the performance of the 8086. The TRS-80 Model 2000 clocked it at 8mhz and was faster than even the early AT's. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jan 15 09:48:12 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #833 Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014674D3@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! From: Cameron Kaiser [mailto:spectre@stockholm.ptloma.edu] ! ! ! > BTW, I got a IIfx free, decomissioned from our office. I ! > think the RAM is maxed, but I'm not sure... does *anyone* ! > have this for a reasonable price? ! ! IIfx RAM is a difficult buy. I initially had hope when I discovered my ! GVP A530 accelerator for my Amiga 500 also used 64-pin RAM ! but they are ! apparently incompatible (too bad since GVP RAM is somewhat ! more common). ! ! -- 64 pin? Why does that sound familiar? Wait! I know! DING! ! -----Original Message----- ! From: David Woyciesjes ! Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 4:49 PM ! To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org (E-mail) ! Subject: Oddball memory (?) sticks.... ! ......... ! The first is only 64 pin, has 8 chips ! (AAA1M300J-08 NMBS 9122), with an empty spot for a 9th ! chip. Printed on the back - "1X964P A (in a circle) 9115". ! Apparently made by Microtech. My guess is it's 1MB ! non-parity memory, but I don't know what uses 64 pin ! memory sticks. I have 4 of these sticks. ........ I'll bring them with me to work tomorrow. Make me a good offer. Now they can be put to use, instead of taking up space and collecting dust in my computer room... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From donm at cts.com Tue Jan 15 18:59:20 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: Racal-Vadic Auto Dial VA212 Modem Users Guide Message-ID: Anyone want this piece of antiquity? Free for the asking in the states or Canada. Else. the recycling bin gets it. - don From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jan 15 10:54:40 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: Wire Recorder Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E101@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Penna2@aol.com [mailto:Penna2@aol.com] > it.Unfortunatly also a few breaks and I have not yet found a > way of splicing > wire! I can see why they went to tape. Solder? :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Jan 15 12:54:11 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: Wire Recorder In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:54:40 CST." <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E101@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <200201151854.SAA10555@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Said: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Penna2@aol.com [mailto:Penna2@aol.com] > > > it.Unfortunatly also a few breaks and I have not yet found a > > way of splicing > > wire! I can see why they went to tape. > > Solder? :) I seem to remember a chap from the BBC telling me they had a machine to weld theirs and grind the weld down to size! They certainly did that with the steel video tape ;-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From donm at cts.com Tue Jan 15 13:37:35 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: Wire Recorder In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E101@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Penna2@aol.com [mailto:Penna2@aol.com] > > > it.Unfortunatly also a few breaks and I have not yet found a > > way of splicing > > wire! I can see why they went to tape. > > Solder? :) I seem to recall `way back when' hearing of just knotting the ends together in order to finish reading a `wire'. Probably rough on the heads if used continuously, though. - don > Chris > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 15 13:57:27 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: Wire Recorder In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E101@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> from "Christopher Smith" at Jan 15, 2 10:54:40 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 344 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020115/e140271f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 15 13:36:15 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: Wire Recorder In-Reply-To: <13707286906.15.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Jan 14, 2 07:35:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1799 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020115/8c1fd0ad/attachment.ksh From jss at subatomix.com Tue Jan 15 10:30:39 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D In-Reply-To: <200201151307.IAA14070@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20020115102245.Y10611-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Bryan Pope wrote: > Dell Computer announced that it has signed on to be the National > Football League's official computer systems provider for the upcoming > Super Bowl XXXVI. I can see what it means in this case, but I have always chuckled when I hear: " is the official of the !" because most times, it doesn't seem to have meaning. What does it mean if Pepsi is the official soft drink of the NBA? Does it mean that all NBA players drink nothing but Pepsi? I think not. > TRON Collectors Edition on DVD was released today!! :-D The coolest > computer animation of the 80's! For many of us in the younger crowd of computer geeks, Tron was also very influential in getting our interests fixated on computers as children. Tron and Wargames were two movies that influenced me substantially. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Jan 15 11:55:47 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D In-Reply-To: <20020115102245.Y10611-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at Jan 15, 02 10:30:39 am Message-ID: <200201151755.MAA02827@wordstock.com> > > For many of us in the younger crowd of computer geeks, Tron was also very > influential in getting our interests fixated on computers as children. > Tron and Wargames were two movies that influenced me substantially. > At my college programming class, we had to create a Tic-tac-toe game. I added the "hidden" feature of being able to play with zero players.... ;-) Bryan From mythtech at Mac.com Tue Jan 15 12:16:47 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D Message-ID: >And.... TRON Collectors Edition on DVD was released today!! :-D The coolest >computer animation of the 80's! Did you buy it? Any good extras? I know it is a 2 disc set, but I am just curious what is on the 2nd disc... hopefully more than just the crappy "Making Of" Disney made years ago. (hosted by what's his name that played "Alan/Tron") -chris From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Jan 15 12:37:52 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D In-Reply-To: from "Chris" at Jan 15, 02 01:16:47 pm Message-ID: <200201151837.NAA11827@wordstock.com> > > >And.... TRON Collectors Edition on DVD was released today!! :-D The coolest > >computer animation of the 80's! > > Did you buy it? Any good extras? I know it is a 2 disc set, but I am just > curious what is on the 2nd disc... hopefully more than just the crappy > "Making Of" Disney made years ago. (hosted by what's his name that played > "Alan/Tron") > Chris, No, I haven't bought it... First I would need the DVD player... ;) I would like a region-free DVD player, but now they are creating DVD's that are unplayable on region-free DVD players. :-( Bryan From mythtech at Mac.com Tue Jan 15 12:19:47 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D Message-ID: >> And.... TRON Collectors Edition on DVD was released today!! :-D The coolest >> computer animation of the 80's! > >Wasn't the animation done on a 'one off' development of the PDP-11? Foonly? >Super Foonly? IIRC, in the Making Of video disney did, they said it was a Cray that handled the rendering, and the computer world scenes were all shot in black and white, and then had the highlite colors overlayed in post production. But it has been years since I saw the making of, so I might be remembering wrong. -chris From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jan 15 12:21:24 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014674D8@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! From: Bryan Pope [mailto:bpope@wordstock.com] ! ! ! ! > ! > For many of us in the younger crowd of computer geeks, Tron ! > was also very ! > influential in getting our interests fixated on computers ! > as children. ! > Tron and Wargames were two movies that influenced me substantially. ! > ! ! At my college programming class, we had to create a ! Tic-tac-toe game. I added ! the "hidden" feature of being able to play with zero players.... ;-) ! ! Bryan I was wondering when the obligitory WarGames reference would pop up. BTW, how did the game run with zero players? Do you still have it around? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Jan 15 12:44:30 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014674D8@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> from "David Woyciesjes" at Jan 15, 02 01:21:24 pm Message-ID: <200201151844.NAA13011@wordstock.com> > > ! From: Bryan Pope [mailto:bpope@wordstock.com] > ! > ! > ! > ! > > ! > For many of us in the younger crowd of computer geeks, Tron > ! > was also very > ! > influential in getting our interests fixated on computers > ! > as children. > ! > Tron and Wargames were two movies that influenced me substantially. > ! > > ! > ! At my college programming class, we had to create a > ! Tic-tac-toe game. I added > ! the "hidden" feature of being able to play with zero players.... ;-) > ! > ! Bryan > > I was wondering when the obligitory WarGames reference would pop up. BTW, > how did the game run with zero players? Do you still have it around? > David, I do still have it around! But not the source code.. :-( I can email you a copy if you want. The AI is not perfect though - sometimes X will win.. The game would run in zero players just like in the movie - Showing an enitre game being played before starting a new one. It also kept track of which side won or if there was a draw. Bryan P.S. Oh, and I used FastGraph for the graphics... ;) From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Jan 15 13:10:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D In-Reply-To: <3C443A31.4070100@aconit.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Hans B Pufal wrote: > PDP-10 not PDP-11, Foonly is the right name. Not long ago there was a > thread on alt.sys.pdp10 discussing the whereabouts of that particular > system. No difinitive answer emerged. I'm the person that started the thread in alt.sys.pdp10. I'm still looking and have one unexplored lead at this point. In the process of searching for the whereabouts (or demise) of the Foonly F1, I've exchanged e-mail with a lot of interesting folks from that era of computer generated visual effects. -brian. From mythtech at Mac.com Tue Jan 15 13:10:15 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D Message-ID: > No, I haven't bought it... First I would need the DVD player... ;) I would >like a region-free DVD player, but now they are creating DVD's that are >unplayable on region-free DVD players. :-( A friend of mine bought an Apex that can change regions via a menu option. Supposed to be unlimited changes (it isn't a selling "feature" as it is in a "hidden menu" if I have the story right). It also converts PAL to NTSC on the fly (and does a decent job from what he has said). I think his only complaint is that on some VCDs the audio gets out of synch. Homemade VCDs or cheap VCDs being the biggest offenders. I can ask him what model it is if you are interested. -chris From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Jan 15 13:28:15 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D In-Reply-To: from "Chris" at Jan 15, 02 02:10:15 pm Message-ID: <200201151928.OAA23454@wordstock.com> > > > No, I haven't bought it... First I would need the DVD player... ;) I would > >like a region-free DVD player, but now they are creating DVD's that are > >unplayable on region-free DVD players. :-( > > A friend of mine bought an Apex that can change regions via a menu > option. Supposed to be unlimited changes (it isn't a selling "feature" as > it is in a "hidden menu" if I have the story right). It also converts PAL > to NTSC on the fly (and does a decent job from what he has said). > > I think his only complaint is that on some VCDs the audio gets out of > synch. Homemade VCDs or cheap VCDs being the biggest offenders. > > I can ask him what model it is if you are interested. > Chris, That would be cool! Is it progressive-scan? Thanks, Bryan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 15 14:10:54 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: OT - DVD players (was Re: More DELLness & TRON! :D) In-Reply-To: <200201151928.OAA23454@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20020115201054.46407.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bryan Pope wrote: > > > > I would like a region-free DVD player, but now they are creating DVD's > that are unplayable on region-free DVD players. :-( It's called "RCE" - Region Code Enhanced. > > A friend of mine bought an Apex that can change regions via a menu > > option...in a "hidden menu" if I have the story right). Apex AD-600A. Got one when they were new - $139 from Circuit City. > > I think his only complaint is that on some VCDs the audio gets out of > > synch. Homemade VCDs or cheap VCDs being the biggest offenders. I had that problem, too... I upgraded the firmware on the DVD "loader" (the drive unit itself, as opposed to the PCB _next_ to the drive); the AD-600A has an IDE DVD-ROM drive. Firmware problems in older units abound. I also upgraded the AD600A firmware to correct problems with SVCDs and directory structure (looking in the MPEGAV directory vs MPEG2) and disc detection improvements. > > I can ask him what model it is if you are interested. It if has the menu, it's probably a 600A. > Chris, > > That would be cool! Is it progressive-scan? Not sure. Mine does have Composite Out, S-Video Out and Component Video Out (Cr, Cb, Y). For more details, look at http://slashdot.org/, http://www.nerd-out.com/ and http://dvd-wizards/darrenk/ Please don't follow-up to the list and clutter it with stuff more OT than this already is. -ethan P.S. - the AD600 is more-or-less only available from ePay now. Check out Wal-Mart for their $88 AD-500WM and AD-1500 (but look at Darren's page before buying _any_ Apex player - much information for those that care to seek it). __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jan 15 13:14:24 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014674D9@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Hmmm, what systems will it run on? > ---------- > From: Bryan Pope > Reply To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 1:44 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: More DELLness & TRON! :D > > > > > ! From: Bryan Pope [mailto:bpope@wordstock.com] > > ! > > ! > > ! > > ! > > > ! > For many of us in the younger crowd of computer geeks, Tron > > ! > was also very > > ! > influential in getting our interests fixated on computers > > ! > as children. > > ! > Tron and Wargames were two movies that influenced me substantially. > > ! > > > ! > > ! At my college programming class, we had to create a > > ! Tic-tac-toe game. I added > > ! the "hidden" feature of being able to play with zero players.... ;-) > > ! > > ! Bryan > > > > I was wondering when the obligitory WarGames reference would pop up. > BTW, > > how did the game run with zero players? Do you still have it around? > > > > David, > > I do still have it around! But not the source code.. :-( I can > email you > a copy if you want. The AI is not perfect though - sometimes X will win.. > > The game would run in zero players just like in the movie - Showing > an > enitre game being played before starting a new one. It also kept track of > > which side won or if there was a draw. > > Bryan > > P.S. Oh, and I used FastGraph for the graphics... ;) > > From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Jan 15 13:24:21 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014674D9@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> from "David Woyciesjes" at Jan 15, 02 02:14:24 pm Message-ID: <200201151924.OAA22602@wordstock.com> MS-DOS.. Or a DOS shell in Windows 98 SE and lower (Windows XP and 2000 *SUCK* at running programs that use graphics) IIRC, it is compilied under 32-bit protected mode. Bryan > > Hmmm, what systems will it run on? > > > ---------- > > From: Bryan Pope > > Reply To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 1:44 PM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: More DELLness & TRON! :D > > > > > > > > ! From: Bryan Pope [mailto:bpope@wordstock.com] > > > ! > > > ! > > > ! > > > ! > > > > ! > For many of us in the younger crowd of computer geeks, Tron > > > ! > was also very > > > ! > influential in getting our interests fixated on computers > > > ! > as children. > > > ! > Tron and Wargames were two movies that influenced me substantially. > > > ! > > > > ! > > > ! At my college programming class, we had to create a > > > ! Tic-tac-toe game. I added > > > ! the "hidden" feature of being able to play with zero players.... ;-) > > > ! > > > ! Bryan > > > > > > I was wondering when the obligitory WarGames reference would pop up. > > BTW, > > > how did the game run with zero players? Do you still have it around? > > > > > > > David, > > > > I do still have it around! But not the source code.. :-( I can > > email you > > a copy if you want. The AI is not perfect though - sometimes X will win.. > > > > The game would run in zero players just like in the movie - Showing > > an > > enitre game being played before starting a new one. It also kept track of > > > > which side won or if there was a draw. > > > > Bryan > > > > P.S. Oh, and I used FastGraph for the graphics... ;) > > > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 15 13:51:09 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D In-Reply-To: <00d701c19dc9$66f2f3b0$0300a8c0@geoff> from "Geoff Roberts" at Jan 16, 2 00:04:45 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 281 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020115/da43169c/attachment.ksh From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jan 15 13:53:23 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014674DB@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! From: Bryan Pope [mailto:bpope@wordstock.com] ! ! ! MS-DOS.. Or a DOS shell in Windows 98 SE and lower (Windows ! XP and 2000 ! *SUCK* at running programs that use graphics) IIRC, it is ! compilied under ! 32-bit protected mode. ! ! Bryan Heh heh heh... Yeah, could you send a copy to me? It'd be a neat thing for the collection. Too bad you don't have the source code anymore. Picture it running on a 21" b&w monitor hooked to a VAX... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Jan 15 14:19:34 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014674DB@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> from "David Woyciesjes" at Jan 15, 02 02:53:23 pm Message-ID: <200201152019.PAA01139@wordstock.com> > > ! From: Bryan Pope [mailto:bpope@wordstock.com] > ! > ! > ! MS-DOS.. Or a DOS shell in Windows 98 SE and lower (Windows > ! XP and 2000 > ! *SUCK* at running programs that use graphics) IIRC, it is > ! compilied under > ! 32-bit protected mode. > ! > ! Bryan > > Heh heh heh... Yeah, could you send a copy to me? It'd be a neat > thing for the collection. Too bad you don't have the source code anymore. > Picture it running on a 21" b&w monitor hooked to a VAX... > Sure! Once I get home from work I will forward you a copy. :) There is colour in it, but the X' and O's are white and the background is fairly dark. Cheers, Bryan From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jan 15 14:41:21 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014674E3@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Well, it was black and white in the movie anyway, right? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Bryan Pope [mailto:bpope@wordstock.com] ! Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 3:20 PM ! To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org ! Subject: Re: More DELLness & TRON! :D ! ! ! > ! > ! From: Bryan Pope [mailto:bpope@wordstock.com] ! > ! ! > ! ! > ! MS-DOS.. Or a DOS shell in Windows 98 SE and lower (Windows ! > ! XP and 2000 ! > ! *SUCK* at running programs that use graphics) IIRC, it is ! > ! compilied under ! > ! 32-bit protected mode. ! > ! ! > ! Bryan ! > ! > Heh heh heh... Yeah, could you send a copy to me? It'd be a neat ! > thing for the collection. Too bad you don't have the source ! code anymore. ! > Picture it running on a 21" b&w monitor hooked to a VAX... ! > ! ! Sure! Once I get home from work I will forward you a copy. ! :) There is ! colour in it, but the X' and O's are white and the background ! is fairly dark. ! ! Cheers, ! ! Bryan ! From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jan 15 16:34:57 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: Free: NeXT N4000A monitor Message-ID: Since there are a few people into the NeXT machines on here, I wanted to offer this here. I've got an extra N4000A monochrome monitor that I wish to get rid of...and it's FREE! The only problem with it is that it is dim. Otherwise it works great. I've got another N4000A and a N4001, so don't need this additional monitor. Drop me a line if interested. It's just outside of Washington D.C. I'd hate to just dispose of it if nobody wants it but I don't have room enough for all the machines I want, much less extra monitors for all of them. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mythtech at Mac.com Tue Jan 15 13:07:06 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: Available: Commodore 64 with drive Message-ID: I have a C-64 here with a floppy drive. No cables of any kind (but I have a call into the guy that gave it to me, to see if he still has the cables). Anyone want it? I don't know it if works, but my friend said it worked when he stopped using it (5+ years ago). It is rather dusty, and was kicking around on his basement floor when I found it and asked if he still wanted it, so who knows the condition now. I don't know the value of such a machine, nor do I think I care... I just want to get rid of it (taking old electronics is an addiction of mine that I need to break since I ran out of room a long time ago). There is a copy of Bank Street Writer sitting in the disk drive. The drive is a 5.25 drive, model number 1541. The stuff is available as a package, or in peices. Best offer gets it (or any part of it), with lowest acceptable offer being cost of shipping (shipping out of Ridgewood, NJ 07450, you can also pick it up if you want). If I can get the power supply and disk drive cable, I will post a note. So to sum up... items available: C-64 5.25 floppy drive model 1541 5.25 original disk for Bank Street Writer -chris From root at diablonet.net Tue Jan 15 22:57:28 2002 From: root at diablonet.net (Netdiablo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: Foonly F1 Message-ID: <3C4506A7.F54CB4F3@diablonet.net> In regard to the movie TRON, as someone stated earlier, I believe the work for it was indeed done on a Cray. The F1 was actually used to do the computer graphics for a Disney movie called "Flight of the Navigator". There's a really nifty site about it at the following URL. http://vhost2.zfx.com/~dave/f1.html Kind regards, Sean BTW: Pete, are those EISA cards still up for grabs? I might be willing to take them... I could always hope that NetBSD will support my Jensen more effectively in the future and that I may be able to put some of them to interesting use! -- Sean Caron http://www.diablonet.net scaron@engin.umich.edu root@diablonet.net From fernande at internet1.net Tue Jan 15 23:04:42 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: Araldite References: Message-ID: <3C4509EA.76E833AF@internet1.net> I used it to repair the case on my IBM PS/2 Model 80. One of the mounting "towers" that hold the power supply in place broke before I got it. The fibrous plastic piece with the threaded insert was still present, but un-attached, so I used JB-Weld to re-secure it. Worked great!! :-) I assume it is still in place. I haven't pulled the power supply since so I don't know for sure, but I suspect it is still holding. It's amazing that the same stuff I used to plug a hole in the intake manifold of a 2.2 liter Chrysler engine is the same stuff I used to fix my computer :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Doc wrote: > > On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Eric J. Korpela wrote: > > > 2216 is very good when you need to bond a plastic like PEEK. I thought > > the primary application of JB Weld was for metals? > > Umm, that's what they _sell_ it for. The real primary application is > with a spatula. > > Couldn't resist. I use JB weld anytime I need high-stress bonding. > It stands up to vibration & flexure better than any other stickum I > know. It IS kind of ugly, though. > > Doc From blstuart at bellsouth.net Tue Jan 15 23:33:10 2002 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: SCSI Question Message-ID: I'm going to claim this is on topic since it's for my SPARCStation2 which is 10 years old. To make a (semi-)long story short, I've come to the conclusion that I need a SCSI1 to SCSI3 adapter with high byte termination to connect a wide IBM SCSI drive to the narrow SCSI controller in my SS2. The only IDC50M to MD68M adapter I've found doesn't have the termination. There's a nice little adapter out there but it's got female connectors on both ends. I could try to assemble something with gender changers, but I'm afraid I'd end up spending more than I did on the drive for a Frankenstien that I'm not even sure would work. So my question is, does anyone know where to find an adapter with male connectors? Or, for that matter, has anyone dealt with this sort of thing and have a better suggestion? Thanks in advance, Brian L. Stuart From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jan 15 23:42:13 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: C64View PC/Mac C64 image viewer Message-ID: <200201160542.VAA27968@stockholm.ptloma.edu> After a long, long delay, C64View, the venerable PC C64 image viewer utility, finally been updated (to version 0.5.x). A new Power Macintosh port is available as well! This version fixes a few bugs in the old 0.499.x, as well as adding support for generic 8K hires bitmaps and the ability to save the image as a .pict (Macintosh version only). C64View can thus view DOODLE!, KoalaPainter, Print Shop Screen Magic, Flexidraw, 1K colourmap and 8K bitmap files. The PC version runs on MS-DOS 5.0 or higher, as well as Windows 95/98/ME/NT. The Mac version runs on any Power Mac with CarbonLib (prefer OS 8.6 or higher). C64View is freeware. Check system requirements and download from http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/cwi/c64view/ -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The idea is to die young as late as possible. -- Ashley Montagu ------------ From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 16 00:08:59 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: SCSI Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 blstuart@bellsouth.net wrote: > I'm going to claim this is on topic since it's for my SPARCStation2 > which is 10 years old. > > To make a (semi-)long story short, I've come to the conclusion that I > need a SCSI1 to SCSI3 adapter with high byte termination to connect a > wide IBM SCSI drive to the narrow SCSI controller in my SS2. The only > IDC50M to MD68M adapter I've found doesn't have the termination. > There's a nice little adapter out there but it's got female connectors > on both ends. I could try to assemble something with gender changers, > but I'm afraid I'd end up spending more than I did on the drive for a > Frankenstien that I'm not even sure would work. > > So my question is, does anyone know where to find an adapter with male > connectors? Or, for that matter, has anyone dealt with this sort of > thing and have a better suggestion? See the comp.periphs.scsi faq, located here: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/scsi-faq/part1/ http://www.faqs.org/faqs/scsi-faq/part2/ Your question is answered in part 1 of the far in the section "Can I connect a WIDE device to my narrow SCSI host adapter?" If you find the faqs.org resources to be helpful, please see: http://www.faqs.org/save_faqs-org.html -Toth From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed Jan 16 00:10:57 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: SCSI Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020115221027.03da71c0@mail.zipcon.net> get a Wide-Scsi SBUS controller? I've seen 'em relatively cheap on e-pay and other locations... At 11:33 PM 1/15/02 -0600, you wrote: >I'm going to claim this is on topic since it's for my >SPARCStation2 which is 10 years old. > >To make a (semi-)long story short, I've come to the >conclusion that I need a SCSI1 to SCSI3 adapter with >high byte termination to connect a wide IBM SCSI drive >to the narrow SCSI controller in my SS2. The only >IDC50M to MD68M adapter I've found doesn't have the >termination. There's a nice little adapter out there >but it's got female connectors on both ends. I could >try to assemble something with gender changers, but >I'm afraid I'd end up spending more than I did on >the drive for a Frankenstien that I'm not even sure >would work. > >So my question is, does anyone know where to find an >adapter with male connectors? Or, for that matter, >has anyone dealt with this sort of thing and have >a better suggestion? > >Thanks in advance, >Brian L. Stuart From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Jan 16 00:28:41 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: More HP1000's In-Reply-To: "Steve Robertson"'s message of "Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:10:37 -0500" References: Message-ID: <200201160628.g0G6Sfw29760@daemonweed.reanimators.org> > 1.) Does the 9885 require special disks or will generic 8" floppies work? > What is the format for the disks? At a guess (based on a mention of "about 500,000 bytes" in one of the HP T&M catalogs), they're single-sided double-density disks, and almost certainly soft-sectored. -Frank McConnell From GOOI at oce.nl Wed Jan 16 06:23:02 2002 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) Message-ID: Indeed, the 68000 and 68010 pushed the same amount of data onto the stack, but the 68010 produced more different types of stack-frames than the 68000. If you wanted to speed up the ATARI-ST you could replace the 68000 with an 68010, but you needed to patch TOS. Otherwise the O.S. crashed. Nice was the fact that the 68000 and the 68010 are *pin-compatible*. I know, because my StarShip first ran on a 6802, then a 68000 and then on a 68010. I had to re-write a small part of the embedded OS that handles the stack-frame processing. Tight-loops (2 instruction) are cached. [My StarShip runs on a 68020 at 30 MHz. now] - Henk. > -----Original Message----- > From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com] > Sent: dinsdag 15 januari 2002 21:20 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) > > > > --- Pete Turnbull wrote: > > On Jan 14, 14:56, Bruce Robertson wrote: > > > > > Yes, I seem to remember that with the 68000, there was an > interaction > > > with the Bus Fault signal... something to do with what > state got saved > > > on the stack; I don't remember the exact details > > After a bus fault, there was not enough information on the stack to > properly do an instruction restart from where the bus-fault occured. > > > Oops, I forgot about that. You're right; the 68010 saves > slightly more > > state on the stack than the early 68000. I have a feeling > that was fixed > > in later 68000; some traps save more state than others. > > Not as far as I know... the quantity of bytes pushed on the > stack should > be constant for a given member of the 68K family. A lot of > older software > for the Amiga that did things with the stack (debugging > tools, mostly) > assumed certain things relating to the stack - it became confused on > the '010 and up because the number of bytes did change for certain > traps (like bus error). I have the details at home, not with > me, in my > Motorola books, or I'd post them here. Eventually, people learned to > ask the OS what was going on, rather than paw through the stack > indescriminantly, kinda like when people got burned on the > first Fatter > Agnus Amigas - 1Mb of CHIP and 0Mb of FAST RAM - broke all kinds of > software that asked for a buffer of FAST RAM instead of > "fastest available > RAM". > > > You can't get 68010s any more, unless you can find old > stock somewhere > > :-( > > You can still get 68000s and 68020s. > > That's not surprising. Even when they were current, we had a > hard time > getting 68010 chips for our products. We paid $45 each for them at a > time when the 68000P8 was about $3 (eventually, I found them at a > surplus/overstock electronics dealer for $10). > > At the moment, I have dozens of 68000L8s and one tube of 68010P10s. I > hope I never have to look for any more 68010s. > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! > http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ > From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Jan 16 07:11:32 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020116071042.02344ba8@pc> I forward them all... - John >From: "jkd1932" >To: >Subject: IBM PC'S >Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:12:20 -0500 >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 > >Mr. Foust, the organization I work with has two IBM PS/2, 286, PC's to give to anyone who wants them. I am in the Washington,DC/Baltimore,MD area. I have tried re-cycling groups, but they don't want them. Then I thought there would be a collector who would interested. Both systems are in excellent condition. I would appreciate your advice. I have looked at the "Classic Computer Rescue List", but did not find anyone who would be interested. > >Ken Diggs, Damascus,MD From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 16 07:34:28 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020116071042.02344ba8@pc> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, John Foust wrote: > >From: "jkd1932" > >Subject: IBM PC'S > > > > Mr. Foust, the organization I work with has two IBM PS/2, 286, PC's to > > give to anyone who wants them. I am in the Washington,DC/Baltimore,MD > > area. I have tried re-cycling groups, but they don't want them. Then I > > thought there would be a collector who would interested. Both systems > > are in excellent condition. I would appreciate your advice. I have > > looked at the "Classic Computer Rescue List", but did not find anyone > > who would be interested. Sounds like IBM PS/2 model 50 or model 60 machines. I already own several of each model, but someone here on the list must be looking for some of these. -Toth From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Jan 16 06:37:45 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225D0A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > MS-DOS.. Or a DOS shell in Windows 98 SE and lower (Windows XP and 2000 > *SUCK* at running programs that use graphics) IIRC, it is compilied under > 32-bit protected mode. Sure they suck, on that mangy 486... ;) Most graphics problems under Windows Xp and 2000 can ultimately be traced to poorly-written video card drivers... the NVidia and TNT, Voodoo, Banshee, and other 3D-focused cards are the worst. The developers put all their time into the 3D code, leaving the 2D code working like crap. YMMV, etc... -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Jan 16 06:46:11 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: OT: scaffolding Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225D0B@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > > Ok, so since this group seems to be into most everything, including > > the occasional classic computer related topic, I am wondering if > > anyone has suggestions as to the source of building scaffolding > > here in the midwest (chicago) area? I need enough sections to do > > work under the eves of my two story house, which means about 30'. > > How high can you stack Dells? Dimensions.... From bill_r at inebraska.com Wed Jan 16 07:57:17 2002 From: bill_r at inebraska.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D In-Reply-To: <200201151837.NAA11827@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Bryan Pope wrote: > Chris, > > No, I haven't bought it... First I would need the DVD player... ;) I would > like a region-free DVD player, but now they are creating DVD's that are > unplayable on region-free DVD players. :-( DVD-ROM drives are cheap these days, and many of them allow you to change the region at least once. I've been tempted to buy one or two extras and set each one to a different region... From bill_r at inebraska.com Wed Jan 16 08:02:39 2002 From: bill_r at inebraska.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:38 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > I'm the person that started the thread in alt.sys.pdp10. I'm still > looking and have one unexplored lead at this point. In the process of > searching for the whereabouts (or demise) of the Foonly F1, I've > exchanged e-mail with a lot of interesting folks from that era of > computer generated visual effects. Now I'm curious. "Foonly" is used as a variable name in the "tutorial" portion of the "Finite State Fantasies" computer comic by Rich Didday. (See my web site for a scanned copy.) Wonder if this was a reference to the TRON computer, or vice-versa? Or was this a geek-term like "Foo, Bar, and Blech" already? From allain at panix.com Wed Jan 16 08:50:22 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: Foonly F1 References: <3C4506A7.F54CB4F3@diablonet.net> Message-ID: <007701c19e9d$20122a40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I wouldn't be surprised if the Foonly was involved in TRON. TRON was a Big project, costing over $18 million and involving no fewer than three CG companies. Information International Inc. was indeed one of the companies and July-1982 was the movie release. If the Foonly was at Triple-I before then, then its a good bet it was involved. I think one website said that III sold its Foonly in 1984 so theres a good chance of date overlap. There sure were other computers in it too, but the F1 may have been the most intriguing. John A. (Thanks to this List for mentioning the Foonly first.) From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1452.monmouth.com Wed Jan 16 09:37:28 2002 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1452.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: Foonly F1 In-Reply-To: <007701c19e9d$20122a40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from John Allain at "Jan 16, 2002 09:50:22 am" Message-ID: <200201161537.g0GFbSV15704@bg-tc-ppp1452.monmouth.com> > I wouldn't be surprised if the Foonly was involved in TRON. > TRON was a Big project, costing over $18 million and involving > no fewer than three CG companies. Information International Inc. > was indeed one of the companies and July-1982 was the movie > release. If the Foonly was at Triple-I before then, then its a > good bet it was involved. I think one website said that III sold > its Foonly in 1984 so theres a good chance of date overlap. There > sure were other computers in it too, but the F1 may have been the > most intriguing. > > John A. > (Thanks to this List for mentioning the Foonly first.) Was this the same Triple-I that did tape to Microfiche output devices? This was back aroud the late 70's to early 80's I worked with one at Bell and HowlThis was back aroud the late 70's to early 80's I worked with one at Bell and Howell microphoto division while going to school at DeVry Tech? -- bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com From mythtech at Mac.com Wed Jan 16 09:57:07 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: Foonly F1 Message-ID: >TRON was a Big project, costing over $18 million Man how times change... $18m for a movie... that might just cover Jeff Bridges pay these days. -chris From dtwright at uiuc.edu Wed Jan 16 09:16:57 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: SCSI Question In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020115221027.03da71c0@mail.zipcon.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020115221027.03da71c0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <20020116151657.GB372299@uiuc.edu> most (possibly all) of those won't work in sun4c machines. For example, the "Happy Meal" Fast Ethernet/wide SCSI controller prevents an SS2 from booting... Geoff Reed said: > get a Wide-Scsi SBUS controller? I've seen 'em relatively cheap on e-pay > and other locations... > > At 11:33 PM 1/15/02 -0600, you wrote: > >I'm going to claim this is on topic since it's for my > >SPARCStation2 which is 10 years old. > > > >To make a (semi-)long story short, I've come to the > >conclusion that I need a SCSI1 to SCSI3 adapter with > >high byte termination to connect a wide IBM SCSI drive > >to the narrow SCSI controller in my SS2. The only > >IDC50M to MD68M adapter I've found doesn't have the > >termination. There's a nice little adapter out there > >but it's got female connectors on both ends. I could > >try to assemble something with gender changers, but > >I'm afraid I'd end up spending more than I did on > >the drive for a Frankenstien that I'm not even sure > >would work. > > > >So my question is, does anyone know where to find an > >adapter with male connectors? Or, for that matter, > >has anyone dealt with this sort of thing and have > >a better suggestion? > > > >Thanks in advance, > >Brian L. Stuart - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 16 14:58:34 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: SCSI Question In-Reply-To: <20020116151657.GB372299@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <20020116205834.54414.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> --- Dan Wright wrote: > most (possibly all) of those won't work in sun4c machines. For example, > the "Happy Meal" Fast Ethernet/wide SCSI controller prevents an SS2 from > booting... I found that out the hard way. My SS2 gave way to a SPARCclassic as a result... -ethan P.S. - and when the Classic died last year, it was replaced by a SS5-110, and my hme/scsi-w card is still in use. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From at258 at osfn.org Wed Jan 16 17:50:03 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: Decwriters In-Reply-To: <20020116205834.54414.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: We seem to have a surfeit of Decwriters. Would anyone be interested in one? M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From allain at panix.com Wed Jan 16 18:35:24 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: Decwriters References: Message-ID: <003301c19eee$db727140$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Would it be hard to list the qty/models? John A. From ccraft at springsips.com Wed Jan 16 19:12:35 2002 From: ccraft at springsips.com (Chris Craft) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: Decwriters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02011618123505.04415@ccraft.springsips.com> I'd love to have a decwriter, but am darned near on the other side of the country from RI. Any idea what shipping to US-80487 would be? -Chris, the RetroComputing Nut On Wednesday 16 January 2002 04:50 pm, you wrote: > We seem to have a surfeit of Decwriters. Would anyone be interested in > one? > > > M. K. Peirce > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid From dtwright at uiuc.edu Wed Jan 16 09:18:15 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: SCSI Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020116151815.GC372299@uiuc.edu> Try UltraSpec Cables (http://www.ultraspec.com/) -- they make cables and adapters to go from (anything)->(anything else). A little expensive, but the quality is fantastic... blstuart@bellsouth.net said: > I'm going to claim this is on topic since it's for my > SPARCStation2 which is 10 years old. > > To make a (semi-)long story short, I've come to the > conclusion that I need a SCSI1 to SCSI3 adapter with > high byte termination to connect a wide IBM SCSI drive > to the narrow SCSI controller in my SS2. The only > IDC50M to MD68M adapter I've found doesn't have the > termination. There's a nice little adapter out there > but it's got female connectors on both ends. I could > try to assemble something with gender changers, but > I'm afraid I'd end up spending more than I did on > the drive for a Frankenstien that I'm not even sure > would work. > > So my question is, does anyone know where to find an > adapter with male connectors? Or, for that matter, > has anyone dealt with this sort of thing and have > a better suggestion? > > Thanks in advance, > Brian L. Stuart > - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From thompson at mail.athenet.net Wed Jan 16 14:22:44 2002 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: SCSI Question In-Reply-To: <20020116151815.GC372299@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: > blstuart@bellsouth.net said: > > I'm going to claim this is on topic since it's for my > > SPARCStation2 which is 10 years old. > > > > To make a (semi-)long story short, I've come to the > > conclusion that I need a SCSI1 to SCSI3 adapter with > > high byte termination to connect a wide IBM SCSI drive > > to the narrow SCSI controller in my SS2. The only Some IBM drives have a jumper which will hard code the drive into narrow mode. This might be an easy solution in which case all you would need is the 50->68 pin adapter. Check the storage.ibm.com website as there are a number of jumper documents there. -- From rhblakeman at kih.net Wed Jan 16 09:24:26 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There was a model 25 (all-in-one) that was a 286 as well as the model 30-286 too, so it could be a number of things. The 50 and 60 are microchannel, 25 and 30-286 are ISA. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tothwolf Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 7:34 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, John Foust wrote: > >From: "jkd1932" > >Subject: IBM PC'S > > > > Mr. Foust, the organization I work with has two IBM PS/2, 286, PC's to > > give to anyone who wants them. I am in the Washington,DC/Baltimore,MD > > area. I have tried re-cycling groups, but they don't want them. Then I > > thought there would be a collector who would interested. Both systems > > are in excellent condition. I would appreciate your advice. I have > > looked at the "Classic Computer Rescue List", but did not find anyone > > who would be interested. Sounds like IBM PS/2 model 50 or model 60 machines. I already own several of each model, but someone here on the list must be looking for some of these. -Toth From fernande at internet1.net Wed Jan 16 09:31:49 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: Stuff I want to get rid of... References: <014f01c19e2d$cd938a80$a7469280@Y5F3Q8> <01f401c19e33$45ca6fa0$a7469280@Y5F3Q8> Message-ID: <3C459CE5.FAAEBE23@internet1.net> Is this by any chance AT form factor? Was this an old BTOS machine? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Robert Schaefer wrote: > > Oops-- I remembered one more thing. Burroughs B26 CPU box, '186 w/ 256K > expansion cart., nothing else. > > Same deal, yours for shipping from zip 43211, Columbus Ohio, USA. > > ja ne! > > Bob From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 16 10:34:59 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: Stuff I want to get rid of... In-Reply-To: <014f01c19e2d$cd938a80$a7469280@Y5F3Q8> Message-ID: <20020116163459.11194.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> --- Robert Schaefer wrote: > A few boards pulled from an old PBX: > One marked `LC 96B V 1' and `SYSTEM CONTROL', one marked `LC 78B V 1' & > `PROCESSOR' (AMD 8080A CPU!) & one marked `LC 95C V 4' & `MEMORY 1' (two > banks of 9x uhhhh 1484?, one bank of 8 wide ceramic 24 pin DIPs). > Yours for shipping from zip 43211, or it goes to the trash. I'm interested if nobody has claimed them (and I am a whopping 5 blocks away, so I can pick them up!) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 16 10:36:11 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: OT: scaffolding In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020116163611.23046.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > > ...building scaffolding... I need... about 30'. > > How high can you stack Dells? Are you allowed to drive a spike through them to keep the stack stable? :-) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jan 16 11:22:47 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: OT: scaffolding In-Reply-To: <20020116163611.23046.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > > > ...building scaffolding... I need... about 30'. > > > > How high can you stack Dells? > > Are you allowed to drive a spike through them to keep the stack stable? I _will_ grant that the pre-98 cases are probably more than sturdy enough. Not to mention heavy enough that a passer-by won't be likely to tip the stack. Doc From arlen.michaels at ottawa.com Wed Jan 16 16:25:21 2002 From: arlen.michaels at ottawa.com (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: Free: NeXT N4000A monitor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: BTW, does anyone know if there's an internal adjustment to brighten these up? It seems that a lot of the surviving NeXT mono screens have gone quite dim. Thanks, Arlen Michaels on 15/1/02 5:34 PM, Jeff Hellige at jhellige@earthlink.net wrote: > Since there are a few people into the NeXT machines on here, > I wanted to offer this here. I've got an extra N4000A monochrome > monitor that I wish to get rid of...and it's FREE! The only problem > with it is that it is dim. Otherwise it works great. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jan 16 18:44:11 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: Free: NeXT N4000A monitor In-Reply-To: Arlen Michaels "Re: Free: NeXT N4000A monitor" (Jan 16, 17:25) References: Message-ID: <10201170044.ZM6785@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 16, 17:25, Arlen Michaels wrote: > BTW, does anyone know if there's an internal adjustment to brighten these > up? It seems that a lot of the surviving NeXT mono screens have gone quite > dim. The cathode in the CRT used in the 4000A loses its emission ability over time. There's nothing you can do about it. The usual techniques for tube rejuvenation don't seem to work. The later 4000B monitors use a different tube which doesn't seem to suffer in the same way. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pb at Colorado.EDU Wed Jan 16 17:36:51 2002 From: pb at Colorado.EDU (pb@Colorado.EDU) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: Free: NeXT N4000A monitor Message-ID: <200201162336.g0GNapB19581@morse.Colorado.EDU> >BTW, does anyone know if there's an internal adjustment to brighten these >up? It seems that a lot of the surviving NeXT mono screens have gone quite >dim. > >Thanks, >Arlen Michaels I believe that there *is* a pot inside that can brighten the monitor, but I also believe that this is a common and well-known (at least on the NeXT news groups) problem with the original monitors: they eventually get very dim--more or less too dim to use. This happens, I seem to remember, after only about 5,000 hours or so. It is a function of the phosphor, it is not prevented by dimming the monitor, and it was rectified in later versions of the monitor. (The details behind all of that information escape me. I suspect you could post a request at comp.sys.next.hardware, and you'd get a reply from someone who knows it all right off the top of his or her head.) Good luck! PB Schechter From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 16 15:12:18 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (longish) In-Reply-To: <10201160008.ZM5694@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jan 16, 2 00:08:12 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3281 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020116/7b6eec3b/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jan 16 18:59:36 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (longish) In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (longish)" (Jan 16, 21:12) References: Message-ID: <10201170059.ZM6791@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 16, 21:12, Tony Duell wrote: > > Towers is excellent, and I'd not be without my well-thumbed copy. I > > Agreed. I also have the FET/MOSpower (==MOSFET) one, and the > op-amps/comparators one. All are very useful. I once saw the > microprocessor Towers book, but I didn't think that was very useful -- it > didn't give pinouts for the devices, for example. I only have the transistors and the micros ones. I do find the latter quite useful, as I can often look up the pinouts somewhere else, or sometimes I just want to know what type of device some chip is. > Where do you get them from, and how do you order them (given that the > titles are in Japanese)? They were either 99p or 199p each from CPC. IIRC they were on one of their special offer sheets that they send out to account customers every weekend, about 18 monthsor a couple of years ago. Probably a one-off special as I don't see them in the catalogue :-( The transistor one is about 5/8" thick, 8.3" wide x 5.8" high, and it says "'97 The Transistor Manual" on the front in Eglish, and something in Japanese underneath. On the back it has two barcodes (one EAN, the other JAN?) 978478983614 and 1923055013001, and "ISBN 4-7898-4361-0 C3055 Y1300E" (the 'Y' is actually a Yen symbol, but in deference to the ISO-8859-impaired I've approximated :-)) The other two are obviously part of the same set. > I tend to wait for a new one to come out and then hunt around for a > bookshop selling off the old ones at a much-reduced price. OK, so I'm a > little out of date, but that's not too much of a problem most of the time > (after all, much of the stuff I work on is out of date too). York isn't blessed with many of the right sort of bookshop, but that seems like a good way to get them. Mine are pretty old, around 1980. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Innfogra at aol.com Wed Jan 16 15:11:10 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: trying to identify this 68K-based board... Message-ID: <53.1112f4b1.2977466e@aol.com> In a message dated 1/16/02 12:29:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, vze2wsvr@verizon.net writes: > It is an ISA-16 card. It has a 68000, w/2 27128 EEPROMs, 16 1259-15 RAM > chips > and Intel > chips, 82586 and 8253-5. The rest looks to be TTL, a couple of connectors > and > couple of > crystals, 16 and 20 MHz. > > It was made by Bridge Communications, USA, in 1987. And it has a D-shell > 15 > pin (like a > Mac video -2 rows of pins) female connector on the back. > > Could be an early AUI ethernet controller. The 82586 was intel's ethernet co-processor. It worked with a CPU chip. Ungerman Bass used an 80186 with the 82586 in their ethernet ISA cards. Bridge Communications also made boxes for bridging different systems and standards. Paxton Astoria, OR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020116/2d097892/attachment.html From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Wed Jan 16 09:25:15 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: OT: FS, Metcal hot-air soldering iron References: <15429.6849.5428.863738@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3C459B5B.B0A1A36D@verizon.net> Is this going to be another one of those ridiculously overpriced eBay items you are such a regular outspoken critic of? Or is this one different, because it's you selling this time? Dave McGuire wrote: > > Hi folks. Sorry for the off-topic crosspost, but I figure there > might be some interest here. > > I have a Metcal model PHAP-01 hot-air soldering system here, in > near-mint condition, that I'd like to sell. I figure I'd mention it > here before going to eBay. I'm looking to get maybe $350-400 for it. > Anyone interested? > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire > St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From fernande at internet1.net Wed Jan 16 09:50:26 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: OT: FS, Metcal hot-air soldering iron References: <15429.6849.5428.863738@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3C459B5B.B0A1A36D@verizon.net> Message-ID: <3C45A142.A970B1C4@internet1.net> What are you talking about? Dave buys stuff on Ebay all the time. His objections are usually when things are misrepresented such as the case with at least one Sun reseller, or something is way over priced, like bare bone Crays in unknown condition, without an OS. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Ian Koller wrote: > > Is this going to be another one of those ridiculously > overpriced eBay items you are such a regular outspoken > critic of? Or is this one different, because it's you > selling this time? > > Dave McGuire wrote: > > > > Hi folks. Sorry for the off-topic crosspost, but I figure there > > might be some interest here. > > > > I have a Metcal model PHAP-01 hot-air soldering system here, in > > near-mint condition, that I'd like to sell. I figure I'd mention it > > here before going to eBay. I'm looking to get maybe $350-400 for it. > > Anyone interested? > > > > -Dave > > > > -- > > Dave McGuire > > St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From rhblakeman at kih.net Wed Jan 16 10:15:28 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: OT: FS, Metcal hot-air soldering iron In-Reply-To: <3C45A142.A970B1C4@internet1.net> Message-ID: As a seller to both Dave and Chad, they don't buy from sellers that are unfair and misrepresentative of their product, but they don't think they'll get everything for $1 either. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chad Fernandez Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 9:50 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: FS, Metcal hot-air soldering iron What are you talking about? Dave buys stuff on Ebay all the time. His objections are usually when things are misrepresented such as the case with at least one Sun reseller, or something is way over priced, like bare bone Crays in unknown condition, without an OS. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Ian Koller wrote: > > Is this going to be another one of those ridiculously > overpriced eBay items you are such a regular outspoken > critic of? Or is this one different, because it's you > selling this time? > > Dave McGuire wrote: > > > > Hi folks. Sorry for the off-topic crosspost, but I figure there > > might be some interest here. > > > > I have a Metcal model PHAP-01 hot-air soldering system here, in > > near-mint condition, that I'd like to sell. I figure I'd mention it > > here before going to eBay. I'm looking to get maybe $350-400 for it. > > Anyone interested? > > > > -Dave > > > > -- > > Dave McGuire > > St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From fernande at internet1.net Wed Jan 16 11:45:12 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: OT: FS, Metcal hot-air soldering iron References: Message-ID: <3C45BC28.DCFCC036@internet1.net> Russ, I wouldn't mind winning one of your auctions for a dollar..... that includes shipping too right :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Russ Blakeman wrote: > > As a seller to both Dave and Chad, they don't buy from sellers that are > unfair and misrepresentative of their product, but they don't think they'll > get everything for $1 either. From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Jan 16 11:01:54 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: OT: FS, Metcal hot-air soldering iron In-Reply-To: <3C459B5B.B0A1A36D@verizon.net> Message-ID: I'd hazard to guess that it's probably worth that much. g. On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote: > > > > Is this going to be another one of those ridiculously > overpriced eBay items you are such a regular outspoken > critic of? Or is this one different, because it's you > selling this time? > > > > Dave McGuire wrote: > > > > Hi folks. Sorry for the off-topic crosspost, but I figure there > > might be some interest here. > > > > I have a Metcal model PHAP-01 hot-air soldering system here, in > > near-mint condition, that I'd like to sell. I figure I'd mention it > > here before going to eBay. I'm looking to get maybe $350-400 for it. > > Anyone interested? > > > > -Dave From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jan 16 11:08:43 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: OT: FS, Metcal hot-air soldering iron In-Reply-To: Re: OT: FS, Metcal hot-air soldering iron (Ian Koller) References: <15429.6849.5428.863738@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3C459B5B.B0A1A36D@verizon.net> Message-ID: <15429.45979.675950.457381@phaduka.neurotica.com> Uhh, what? I sell stuff on eBay all the time, and I love it dearly. I think you're thinking of someone else. I've been the [perhaps lone] person *defending* eBay through many of those flame wars. When I'm being an "outspoken critic", it's usually about "suits" and how they've ruined my industry and are working on destroying society. Or about Microsoft and their crappy products that everyone seems to think are so great. Never eBay though, because I *like* it. :-) -Dave On January 16, Ian Koller wrote: > > > > Is this going to be another one of those ridiculously > overpriced eBay items you are such a regular outspoken > critic of? Or is this one different, because it's you > selling this time? > > > > Dave McGuire wrote: > > > > Hi folks. Sorry for the off-topic crosspost, but I figure there > > might be some interest here. > > > > I have a Metcal model PHAP-01 hot-air soldering system here, in > > near-mint condition, that I'd like to sell. I figure I'd mention it > > here before going to eBay. I'm looking to get maybe $350-400 for it. > > Anyone interested? > > > > -Dave > > > > -- > > Dave McGuire > > St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf > -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Jan 16 11:51:58 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: OT: FS, Metcal hot-air soldering iron In-Reply-To: <15429.45979.675950.457381@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <15429.6849.5428.863738@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3C459B5B.B0A1A36D@verizon.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020116115043.02df62b0@pc> At 12:08 PM 1/16/2002 -0500, Dave McGuire wrote: >Uhh, what? I sell stuff on eBay all the time, and I love it dearly. >I think you're thinking of someone else. I've been the [perhaps lone] >person *defending* eBay through many of those flame wars. Nah, I defend it too, and I believe Chuck McManis has been vocal and reasonable about it. - John From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Jan 16 09:37:29 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: More HP1000's, and bootstrapping old systems in general. References: Message-ID: <3C459E39.D5F69794@tiac.net> The 9885 is listed in HP documentation as the 12732A flexible disk system, with a capacity of 500 K bytes per drive, 4 drives maximum. It is supported under RTE-II, RTE-III, RTE-IV, RTE-IVB, and RTE-M. It is not supported under RTE-L or RTE-XL. I assume its also supported under RTE-6VM, but my documentation is not quite new enough to list that possibility. HP does have a boot from for this subsystem, but I think that the only OS that can fit and run from the 9885 is RTE-M, a 'memory only' version of RTE that was used to host dedicated applications where little or no program development work was done. Think of this (the M version) as a 'run time' version of RTE. Often RTE-M would boot off one of the tiny tape drives common to many HP terminals. In fact, the only mass storage systems for RTE-M are the 9885 and the terminal tape cartridge drives. RTE-M looks kind of interesting, in that it does support Basic/1000M, so program development using Basic is an option (but no Fortran compiler, assembler, etc). RTE-M looks like an excellent choice for building a small system around the newer HP minicomputers (M and E series). The only problem would be finding the distribution media and documentation. But I'm not aware of any place to get HP operating systems, or what their legal status is today. I've got bits and peices of some HP OS's, but nothing operational. In many cases, collectors find partial systems without 'real' operating systems, or even supportable disk systems to hold those operating systems. In these cases, what is a collector to do? On the HP machines, there is an easy alternative, HP's stand-alone basic. But programming in Basic may cause some collectors indigestion. And what if your chosen machine is not an HP?? There is a way to get your chosen vintage machine running something usable without having to run the original operating systems. You can elect to 'bootstrap' the machine with a small, simple, custom operating system and programming language. Sounds impractical? Too much work? Look how small CP/M is. This is something a person could write. More importantly, a more portable option exists, something akin to Forth (punishment for not liking basic enough in my opinion). Small threaded interpreters can be build fairly easily, and are small and powerful tools. Once a small kernel of the language is running, you can quickly expand the system to provide whatever hardware support and features you choose. The book 'Threaded Interpretive Languages' by R. G. Loeliger describes an indirect threaded interpreter for the Z80, but first resorts to describing a 'generic computer' to host a very simple threaded inner interpreter. The generic machine described in chapter 3 is ~very~ similar to the HP1000 machines, assuming you write simple subroutines to implement the parameter and return address stacks. Using this approach, a very usable OS/programming language can be implemented in less than 4K words. Best of all it is extensible, features can be added incrementally. (as you find more hardware and documentation!) Whats needed to attempt such a thing? Well, documentation on any hardware you wish to support, and some form of assembler, either native or (preferably) a cross assembler. Some method of getting the output from the assembler into memory is also key, we all love our front panels, but we need something more practical. Getting back to HP machines for a moment, these needs are easily met. Simple loader software can be used to load code into memory through the TTY interface board, or better still through a parallel interface using the stock BBL loader. The assembler on the HP2100 archive site has been succesfully compiled into wintel executable code, and it works very well. Loader programs can be used to transfer data from a PC into the HP easily enough, or a reader emulator can be used as well. Other vintage platforms may not be so well supported in terms of cross assemblers and ultra-simple boot methods, but any box you can hand-code well enough to talk to the world through whatever interface you have can be made to work here. I should also mention emulation here. Like it or not, you don't have to have the actual hardware to do a lot of this work (this means that people can help develop without being blessed by the glow of the front panel). Personally, Forth is highly unreadable and sufficiently bizzare that I've never learned much about it, other than being facinated by its architecture. Its just so small, and you get so much functionality out of so little code. This efficiency of design has got to appeal to people trying to do something useful with vintage machines. Most often the vintage machine you find is not already booting whatever OS was once available. So whats the least-effort to getting such a machine running as it should? While implementing real Forth on a vintage machine is probably a very good approach to bootstrapping ancient iron thats not already booting an OS, Forth is just too strange for me. I'm taking the option presented in 'Threaded Interpretive Languages', and writing my own threaded interpreter. Because my collection spans HP machines from the bitty 2114 up through E-series boxes, I'm going to write my own operating system and language using the base instructions common to all these machines. I'm assembling the code using a wintel port of HPASM from Jeff's site, and transfering my code to the hardware using a tape reader emulator. But after reading of others trying to 'bootstrap' older HP machines, I have to ask if it would not be better for such 'bootstrapping' projects to be done by teams of list members? This way a semi-standardized 'new vintage OS' could be developed specifically for easy portability to any ancient iron lacking reasonable OS support. Individual users can then alter of replace the languaged dictionary to suite their tastes. Anyone interested in a threaded interpreter for old HP boxes? Maybe something that can run in all those 4K 2114's that can't run HP Basic? From charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com Wed Jan 16 10:57:54 2002 From: charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com (lee courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: More HP1000's, and bootstrapping old systems in general. In-Reply-To: <3C459E39.D5F69794@tiac.net> Message-ID: <20020116165754.86961.qmail@web20809.mail.yahoo.com> Bob et al, I was one of the 6 members of the team that did RTE-6VM at Data Systems Division in the late 79-80. IIRC the floppy drive is not supported. I specifically remember one of the team members, for grins, making the floppy a swap device - the floppy didn't last very long due to excessive media wear. RTE-M was the resident RTE version done at the same time. Sorry, I have no software, documentation, or knowledge beyond the above (except for a RT6GN manual). BTW - if there are any M/E/F HP1000/RTE gurus in the SF Bay Area I'd like to borrow you for a day to bring up a couple of beautiful HP1000 systems (E and F Series) that the HP Response Center gave the Computer History Museum (www.computerhistory.org) in Mountain View. Regards, Lee Courtney --- Bob Shannon wrote: > The 9885 is listed in HP documentation as the 12732A > flexible disk system, with > a capacity of 500 K bytes per drive, 4 drives > maximum. > > It is supported under RTE-II, RTE-III, RTE-IV, > RTE-IVB, and RTE-M. > > It is not supported under RTE-L or RTE-XL. > > I assume its also supported under RTE-6VM, but my > documentation is not quite > new enough to list that possibility. > > HP does have a boot from for this subsystem, but I > think that the only OS that > can fit and run from the 9885 is RTE-M, a 'memory > only' version of RTE that was > used to host dedicated applications where little or > no program development work > was done. Think of this (the M version) as a 'run > time' version of RTE. Often > RTE-M would boot off one of the tiny tape drives > common to many HP terminals. > > In fact, the only mass storage systems for RTE-M are > the 9885 and the terminal > tape cartridge drives. RTE-M looks kind of > interesting, in that it does > support Basic/1000M, so program development using > Basic is an option (but no > Fortran compiler, assembler, etc). > > RTE-M looks like an excellent choice for building a > small system around the > newer HP minicomputers (M and E series). The only > problem would be finding the > distribution media and documentation. > > But I'm not aware of any place to get HP operating > systems, or what their legal > status is today. I've got bits and peices of some > HP OS's, but nothing > operational. > > In many cases, collectors find partial systems > without 'real' operating > systems, or even supportable disk systems to hold > those operating systems. In > these cases, what is a collector to do? > > On the HP machines, there is an easy alternative, > HP's stand-alone basic. But > programming in Basic may cause some collectors > indigestion. And what if your > chosen machine is not an HP?? > > There is a way to get your chosen vintage machine > running something usable > without having to run the original operating > systems. You can elect to > 'bootstrap' the machine with a small, simple, custom > operating system and > programming language. > > Sounds impractical? Too much work? > > Look how small CP/M is. This is something a person > could write. More > importantly, a more portable option exists, > something akin to Forth (punishment > for not liking basic enough in my opinion). > > Small threaded interpreters can be build fairly > easily, and are small and > powerful tools. Once a small kernel of the language > is running, you can > quickly expand the system to provide whatever > hardware support and features you > choose. > > The book 'Threaded Interpretive Languages' by R. G. > Loeliger describes an > indirect threaded interpreter for the Z80, but first > resorts to describing a > 'generic computer' to host a very simple threaded > inner interpreter. > > The generic machine described in chapter 3 is ~very~ > similar to the HP1000 > machines, assuming you write simple subroutines to > implement the parameter and > return address stacks. Using this approach, a very > usable OS/programming > language can be implemented in less than 4K words. > Best of all it is > extensible, features can be added incrementally. (as > you find more hardware and > documentation!) > > Whats needed to attempt such a thing? > > Well, documentation on any hardware you wish to > support, and some form of > assembler, either native or (preferably) a cross > assembler. Some method of > getting the output from the assembler into memory is > also key, we all love our > front panels, but we need something more practical. > > Getting back to HP machines for a moment, these > needs are easily met. Simple > loader software can be used to load code into memory > through the TTY interface > board, or better still through a parallel interface > using the stock BBL loader. > > The assembler on the HP2100 archive site has been > succesfully compiled into > wintel executable code, and it works very well. > Loader programs can be used to > transfer data from a PC into the HP easily enough, > or a reader emulator can be > used as well. > > Other vintage platforms may not be so well supported > in terms of cross > assemblers and ultra-simple boot methods, but any > box you can hand-code well > enough to talk to the world through whatever > interface you have can be made to > work here. I should also mention emulation here. > Like it or not, you don't > have to have the actual hardware to do a lot of this > work (this means that > people can help develop without being blessed by the > glow of the front panel). > > Personally, Forth is highly unreadable and > sufficiently bizzare that I've never > learned much about it, other than being facinated by > its architecture. Its > just so small, and you get so much functionality out > of so little code. This > efficiency of design has got to appeal to people > trying to do something useful > with vintage machines. > > Most often the vintage machine you find is not > already booting whatever OS was > once available. So whats the least-effort to > getting such a machine running as > it should? > > While implementing real Forth on a vintage machine > is probably a very good > approach to bootstrapping ancient iron thats not > already booting an OS, Forth > is just too strange for me. I'm taking the option > presented in 'Threaded > Interpretive Languages', and writing my own threaded > interpreter. > > Because my collection spans HP machines from the > bitty 2114 up through E-series > boxes, I'm going to write my own operating system > and language using the base > instructions common to all these machines. I'm > assembling the code using a > wintel port of HPASM from Jeff's site, and > transfering my code to the hardware > using a tape reader emulator. > > But after reading of others trying to 'bootstrap' > older HP machines, I have to > ask if it would not be better for such > 'bootstrapping' projects to be done by > teams of list members? > > This way a semi-standardized 'new vintage OS' could > be developed specifically > for easy portability to any ancient iron lacking > reasonable OS support. > Individual users can then alter of replace the > languaged dictionary to suite > their tastes. > > Anyone interested in a threaded interpreter for old > HP boxes? Maybe something > that can run in all those 4K 2114's that can't run > HP Basic? > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com Wed Jan 16 15:39:01 2002 From: bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: More HP1000's, and bootstrapping old systems in general. References: <3C459E39.D5F69794@tiac.net> Message-ID: <044d01c19ed6$36ea76d0$9101a8c0@mn> >From the hp users group, interex, you can get the RTE-6 OS, but only in fst format, which is some sort of tape dump/backup format that I cannot (yet) decode, so I'm not sure how to build a loadable system... The manuals are also available... If anyone knows how to decode this to build bootable media, please let me know. I believe this is under a sort of hobbist license (i.e. noncommercial use...) I would assume that all RTE systems post RTE-IV needed a 21MX style computer (1000 series...) with the memory management option installed (on later computers it may not have been an 'option'...) Please correct me if I'm wrong... Bill McDermith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Shannon" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 8:37 AM Subject: Re: More HP1000's, and bootstrapping old systems in general. > The 9885 is listed in HP documentation as the 12732A flexible disk system, with > a capacity of 500 K bytes per drive, 4 drives maximum. > > It is supported under RTE-II, RTE-III, RTE-IV, RTE-IVB, and RTE-M. > > It is not supported under RTE-L or RTE-XL. > > ...snip...snip...snip... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Wed Jan 16 14:21:36 2002 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:39 2005 Subject: trying to identify this 68K-based board... References: <20020116184455.82527.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C45E0D0.310090E4@verizon.net> It is an ISA-16 card. It has a 68000, w/2 27128 EEPROMs, 16 1259-15 RAM chips and Intel chips, 82586 and 8253-5. The rest looks to be TTL, a couple of connectors and couple of crystals, 16 and 20 MHz. It was made by Bridge Communications, USA, in 1987. And it has a D-shell 15 pin (like a Mac video -2 rows of pins) female connector on the back. Just did a Google search on 'Bridge Communications." Had several hits that had absolutely nothing to do with computers and electronics, more at the health industry. Andway, any info about this card appreciated. I guess I could through in into an old AT system and see what it does. There are a few jumpers marked 'int' and 'address' that might be worth finding out about before running a "smoke" test. My guess is that it is some sort of CPU board, but what? Eric From pcw at mesanet.com Wed Jan 16 15:09:24 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:41 2005 Subject: trying to identify this 68K-based board... In-Reply-To: <3C45E0D0.310090E4@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Eric Chomko wrote: > It is an ISA-16 card. It has a 68000, w/2 27128 EEPROMs, 16 1259-15 RAM chips > and Intel > chips, 82586 and 8253-5. The rest looks to be TTL, a couple of connectors and > couple of > crystals, 16 and 20 MHz. > > It was made by Bridge Communications, USA, in 1987. And it has a D-shell 15 > pin (like a > Mac video -2 rows of pins) female connector on the back. > > Just did a Google search on 'Bridge Communications." Had several hits that had > absolutely > nothing to do with computers and electronics, more at the health industry. > Andway, any > info about this card appreciated. > > I guess I could through in into an old AT system and see what it does. There > are a few jumpers > marked 'int' and 'address' that might be worth finding out about before > running a "smoke" test. > > My guess is that it is some sort of CPU board, but what? > > Eric > > Sounds like an early Ethernet card... The Ungerman-Bass Ethernet cards are similar in most components except that they use a '186 processor instead of the 68000 Bridge Communications made Ethernet 'Bridges' and terminal servers before being bought out by someone else (don't remember who) Peter Wallace From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Jan 16 15:15:03 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:41 2005 Subject: trying to identify this 68K-based board... In-Reply-To: Eric Chomko's message of "Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:21:36 -0500" References: <20020116184455.82527.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> <3C45E0D0.310090E4@verizon.net> Message-ID: <200201162115.g0GLF3j55219@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Eric Chomko wrote: > It is an ISA-16 card. It has a 68000, w/2 27128 EEPROMs, 16 1259-15 > RAM chips and Intel chips, 82586 and 8253-5. The rest looks to be > TTL, a couple of connectors and couple of crystals, 16 and 20 MHz. > It was made by Bridge Communications, USA, in 1987. And it has a > D-shell 15 pin (like a Mac video -2 rows of pins) female connector > on the back. Intel 82586 is an Ethernet controller, DA15S is the right connector for an Ethernet transceiver, and Bridge Communications got bought by 3Com in 1987. I think you've got an intelligent Ethernet interface of some sort. -Frank McConnell From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Jan 16 14:44:07 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:41 2005 Subject: trying to identify this 68K-based board... In-Reply-To: <3C45E0D0.310090E4@verizon.net> References: <20020116184455.82527.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020116154146.01ce5ba0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Eric Chomko may have mentioned these words: >It is an ISA-16 card. It has a 68000, w/2 27128 EEPROMs, 16 1259-15 RAM chips >and Intel >chips, 82586 and 8253-5. The rest looks to be TTL, a couple of connectors and >couple of >crystals, 16 and 20 MHz. [snippety] Never had one, but it sounds like it could be an OS-9/68K board, with which one could run a version of OS-9 on. Dunno if docs would be around, but pinging the newsgroup comp.os.os9 might get you a lead or two on the board... Hope this helps, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an *older* .sig. (circa 1997!) Why does Hershey's put nutritional information on their candy bar wrappers when there's no nutritional value within? From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Wed Jan 16 15:12:11 2002 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:41 2005 Subject: trying to identify this 68K-based board... References: <20020116184455.82527.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020116154146.01ce5ba0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3C45ECAB.F99D248@verizon.net> Thanks for the suggestion. Also, on the 27128 chips are: looks to be either PIMMON or P1MMON 8-F, also 36-0004-16 and 36-0004-17 Eric Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that Eric Chomko may have mentioned these words: > >It is an ISA-16 card. It has a 68000, w/2 27128 EEPROMs, 16 1259-15 RAM chips > >and Intel > >chips, 82586 and 8253-5. The rest looks to be TTL, a couple of connectors and > >couple of > >crystals, 16 and 20 MHz. > > [snippety] > > Never had one, but it sounds like it could be an OS-9/68K board, with which > one could run a version of OS-9 on. Dunno if docs would be around, but > pinging the newsgroup comp.os.os9 might get you a lead or two on the board... > > Hope this helps, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an *older* .sig. > > (circa 1997!) Why does Hershey's put nutritional information on > their candy bar wrappers when there's no nutritional value within? From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jan 16 16:21:41 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:41 2005 Subject: trying to identify this 68K-based board... References: <20020116184455.82527.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020116154146.01ce5ba0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <001701c19edc$2c41fb80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Merchberger" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 1:44 PM Subject: Re: trying to identify this 68K-based board... > Rumor has it that Eric Chomko may have mentioned these words: > >It is an ISA-16 card. It has a 68000, w/2 27128 EEPROMs, 16 1259-15 RAM chips > >and Intel > >chips, 82586 and 8253-5. The rest looks to be TTL, a couple of connectors and > >couple of > >crystals, 16 and 20 MHz. > > [snippety] > > Never had one, but it sounds like it could be an OS-9/68K board, with which > one could run a version of OS-9 on. Dunno if docs would be around, but > pinging the newsgroup comp.os.os9 might get you a lead or two on the board... > > Hope this helps, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an *older* .sig. > > (circa 1997!) Why does Hershey's put nutritional information on > their candy bar wrappers when there's no nutritional value within? > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jan 16 16:24:26 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:41 2005 Subject: trying to identify this 68K-based board... References: <20020116184455.82527.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020116154146.01ce5ba0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <001b01c19edc$8e8a3320$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I once had a Bridge Communcations board that had a 68K in a PGA and a 68121 (48-pin DIP) and a bunch of really fast PISO and SIPO logic including some FIFO's. I never learned what it was for, since the only reason I wanted it (it was already scrap) was for the parts. I was able to use the FIFO's and a few of the other parts, plus some of the sockets, for a kludge job, but I think I still have the two CPU's lying about. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Merchberger" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 1:44 PM Subject: Re: trying to identify this 68K-based board... > Rumor has it that Eric Chomko may have mentioned these words: > >It is an ISA-16 card. It has a 68000, w/2 27128 EEPROMs, 16 1259-15 RAM chips > >and Intel > >chips, 82586 and 8253-5. The rest looks to be TTL, a couple of connectors and > >couple of > >crystals, 16 and 20 MHz. > > [snippety] > > Never had one, but it sounds like it could be an OS-9/68K board, with which > one could run a version of OS-9 on. Dunno if docs would be around, but > pinging the newsgroup comp.os.os9 might get you a lead or two on the board... > > Hope this helps, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an *older* .sig. > > (circa 1997!) Why does Hershey's put nutritional information on > their candy bar wrappers when there's no nutritional value within? > > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 16 12:44:55 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:41 2005 Subject: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020116184455.82527.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gooijen H wrote: > Indeed, the 68000 and 68010 pushed the same amount of data onto the > stack, but the 68010 produced more different types of stack-frames than > the 68000. I suppose it's all a matter of semantics - different stack frames vs. different amounts of bytes pushed on a bus error... I'd quote chapter and verse, but I forgot to dig out my 68K manuals last night. > If you wanted to speed up the ATARI-ST you could replace the 68000 with > an 68010, but you needed to patch TOS. Otherwise the O.S. crashed. Same for the Amiga, except no patch required for Kickstart/AmigaDOS 1.2 and up (I forget about 1.0 or 1.1). The one way to prove you had a 68010 in your Amiga was to run the old calc program - it did a MOVEcc instruction which is privved on the 68010. There was an optional patch that would intercept that trap and emulate the instruction, but since you weren't supposed to execute that instruction directly (there was an approved way of doing it), the patch wasn't required for ordinary operation. > Nice was the fact that the 68000 and the 68010 are *pin-compatible*. Yep. We got to reuse all of our expensive 68000 diagnostic hardware when we made a 68010 design (building a pin-swabber for our one and only 68008 design was a pain and some stuff didn't work right, but it was good enough for the task at hand). > I know, because my StarShip first ran on a 6802, then a 68000 and then on > a 68010. Cool. > I had to re-write a small part of the embedded OS that handles > the stack-frame processing. Tight-loops (2 instruction) are cached. Yep. > [My StarShip runs on a 68020 at 30 MHz. now] Nice. That'd be cool to see in person. I have been kicking around a similar project since 1987 - mine was two seats, more like a Space Shuttle flight sim, made from scrapped DEC RK05 shells (the innards had been cleaned out by me for spares at work, at direction of my boss). The guts of what I had finished were two 9" PETs for display, and a single 12" 80-col PET. Nice stuff, but I ended up putting the PET guts back in the PETs. They became too useful to squirrel away in a sim cabinet. These days, I'd use commodity hardware. Still have the shells - but they are dismantled and stacked in the attic. :-( -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Jan 16 09:46:56 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:41 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D References: Message-ID: <3C45A070.2B22F499@tiac.net> > On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > > > I'm the person that started the thread in alt.sys.pdp10. I'm still > > looking and have one unexplored lead at this point. In the process of > > searching for the whereabouts (or demise) of the Foonly F1, I've > > exchanged e-mail with a lot of interesting folks from that era of > > computer generated visual effects. > There was a Foonly F1 at Symbolics Inc in Cambridge MA years back around 1984. It had been de-activated, and someone who worked at Symbolics took me in to see the thing, as they were thinking of selling it at the time. I beleive some other people who worked there got the thing, and took it home. Its probably still sitting somewhere. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Jan 16 10:10:15 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:41 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D In-Reply-To: <3C45A070.2B22F499@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > > On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > > > I'm the person that started the thread in alt.sys.pdp10. I'm still > > > looking and have one unexplored lead at this point. In the process of > > > searching for the whereabouts (or demise) of the Foonly F1, I've > > > exchanged e-mail with a lot of interesting folks from that era of > > > computer generated visual effects. > There was a Foonly F1 at Symbolics Inc in Cambridge MA years back > around 1984. Well... there was only one F1 ever made. Foonly did make a couple of other models in quantities >1, so it may have been one of those. The system was by no means portable. It is possible that some of the Lisp gurus at Symbolics would want a machine like F1, but trasporting it from SoCal to the Cambridge would've been an expensive proposition. Still, there may be another lead to pursue there. -brian. From mythtech at Mac.com Wed Jan 16 09:59:22 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:41 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D Message-ID: >DVD-ROM drives are cheap these days, and many of them allow you to >change the region at least once. I've been tempted to buy one or two >extras and set each one to a different region... Humm... thats an idea. Get two $40 DVD-Rom drives, set one to Region 1 and one to Region 2, install them both, and just use the right one for a given movie (most video cards will decode both PAL and NTSC, and usually do a far better job than a cheap external converter will). -chris From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Jan 16 11:49:55 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:41 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D In-Reply-To: <3C45A070.2B22F499@tiac.net> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020116114903.023b1c70@pc> At 10:46 AM 1/16/2002 -0500, Bob Shannon wrote: >There was a Foonly F1 at Symbolics Inc in Cambridge MA years back around 1984. At 09:50 AM 1/16/2002 -0500, John Allain wrote: >Information International Inc. >was indeed one of the companies and July-1982 was the movie >release. I believe some of triple-I's 3D 90s era software was fairly LISPy, I see a thread here. - John From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 16 10:53:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:41 2005 Subject: TU-58 dumps (was Re: VAX 11/730 Problem) In-Reply-To: <1011140100.19630.18.camel@silke> Message-ID: <20020116165300.76016.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com> --- Michael Schneider wrote: > See below... > > Do you have access to another VAX? I used to cut console tapes all the > > time for our 11/730 (k-panda when it was in the UUCP maps) - I still > > have it (and the tapes). > > Yes, but only newer ones, nothing with a tu58. OK... if you had a newer VAX with the right version on it, you could, theoretically, get the files you need from that new VAX and run a serial line to that emulator PC (at a slower baud rate, probably) and "write" the emulated tape image to your emulator box from the working VAX, then move the cable, up the speed to 38400, and have the 11/730 feed off of that. The rub is that I don't recall how much of the console data files are available in the regular SYS$SYSTEM directory structure and how many I may or may not have pulled from a working tape. The boot files are just text, short and easy to recreate, even with EDT. The binary files are the problem. The reason for using the other VAX is to use it to easily create the filesystem on the emulated tape. If you had a way to read the tape that you do have, you could just put the image on the PC, run the TU-58 emulator and go. > > The tape from DEC was sub-optimized... > > Oh, yes, the original tape is just bloated. But under 3 Minutes? That > sounds impressing. It's not so much bloated as poorly sorted. An optimized tape has the heads right over the next block to be read, so there's no end-to-end seeking to find the next file - it's *right there* > > Did you ever get a tape for your machine... > No, no tapes up to now. OK. > My console tape reads: > > BE-T173I-ME > TU58:34 VAX 11725/739 CONSOLE > (c) 1982,84 OK. Sounds standard. > an was cut Jun21/84. Somewhat old - probably the very original tape that shipped with the CPU. > Unfortunately i do not know the exact VMS version installed on my > machine, because the only time got it booting i was so exited that > i spoiled my notes. Very un-scientific, i know. Ah, well. > But i think it is VMS 3.2, IIRC. Or 3.6, that's the label on my > "standalon backup"-tape. Hmm... my memory of those days is hazy... I played with 3.6, but that was as a novice user on an 11/750. We did get an early model 11/730 (order the week they were announced) - that's the one I have in storage. By the time I touched it, it was running VMS 4.x. I installed Ultrix 1.1 on it at one point (and hooked it to Usenet before the Great Renaming, but that's another story), and it spent its last years as a linker box for our product, running 5.x (we fed the objects and asm source to it via 56K DECnet link, let it chew on the files, then transferred the binaries back to our VMS 4.6 general-use 11/750 and put them in the tape build area for making distribution tapes) I think all I am going to have for it is VMS 4.x and VMS 5.x console media. I am fairly certain I had my customized tape for booting VMS 4.4 in my hands on Sunday. I know exactly where it is. If that will work for you, I may be able to help. I honestly do not recall how sensitive the machine is to console tape version vs VMS version mismatch. I know we didn't have to change the tapes on minor revs, but I do not recall if we were forced to change for major revs. -ethan > > > > If you ever did get things running, I know it's possible to build new > > tapes from a running machine. I'd have to find my program on a backup > > tape; I know I don't have it handy, and that 11/730 is in storage. > > Hmm, yes, i think i even have some documentation about this. I'll have > to look. > > > > -ethan > > > > Again: Any help would be more than appreciated! > And, tell me what i can do for you! > > cheers > > ms > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! > > http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ > > > -- > Michael Schneider email: ms@vaxcluster.de > Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de > > People disagree with me. I just ignore them. > (Linus Torvalds) > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jan 16 11:53:18 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:41 2005 Subject: TU-58 dumps (was Re: VAX 11/730 Problem) In-Reply-To: <20020116165300.76016.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > The reason for using the other VAX is to use it to easily create the > filesystem on the emulated tape. If you had a way to read the tape > that you do have, you could just put the image on the PC, run the > TU-58 emulator and go. OK, the reason I haven't joined this thread before is that I'm almost entirely ignorant wrt console tapes. Plus, up to this point an emulated TU-58 wouldn't get data off the orphan tapes, so an emulator wouldn't help much. My question is, why go the small-PC route instead of using something like the TU-58 emulator at http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/TU58_Emulator.htm ? It is really a question, not a suggestion. I think I'm missing a point somewhere.... Doc From ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de Wed Jan 16 15:34:22 2002 From: ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de (Michael Schneider) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:41 2005 Subject: TU-58 dumps (was Re: VAX 11/730 Problem) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1011216863.8553.61.camel@silke> Because i have a spare, small laptop. That's why. The emulator-board from http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/ is a very good way to implement a TU-58 emulator, but i do not have one. Yet. 8-) ms On Wed, 2002-01-16 at 18:53, Doc wrote: > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > The reason for using the other VAX is to use it to easily create the > > filesystem on the emulated tape. If you had a way to read the tape > > that you do have, you could just put the image on the PC, run the > > TU-58 emulator and go. > > OK, the reason I haven't joined this thread before is that I'm almost > entirely ignorant wrt console tapes. Plus, up to this point an emulated > TU-58 wouldn't get data off the orphan tapes, so an emulator wouldn't > help much. > My question is, why go the small-PC route instead of using something > like the TU-58 emulator at > http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/TU58_Emulator.htm ? > > It is really a question, not a suggestion. I think I'm missing a > point somewhere.... > > Doc > > -- Michael Schneider email: ms@vaxcluster.de Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de People disagree with me. I just ignore them. (Linus Torvalds) From ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de Wed Jan 16 15:29:35 2002 From: ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de (Michael Schneider) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:41 2005 Subject: TU-58 dumps (was Re: VAX 11/730 Problem) In-Reply-To: <20020116165300.76016.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020116165300.76016.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1011216576.8553.57.camel@silke> On Wed, 2002-01-16 at 17:53, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Michael Schneider wrote: > > See below... > > > > Do you have access to another VAX? I used to cut console tapes all the > > > time for our 11/730 (k-panda when it was in the UUCP maps) - I still > > > have it (and the tapes). > > > > Yes, but only newer ones, nothing with a tu58. > > OK... if you had a newer VAX with the right version on it, you could, > theoretically, get the files you need from that new VAX and run a > serial line to that emulator PC (at a slower baud rate, probably) and > "write" the emulated tape image to your emulator box from the working > VAX, then move the cable, up the speed to 38400, and have the 11/730 > feed off of that. The rub is that I don't recall how much of the console > data files are available in the regular SYS$SYSTEM directory structure > and how many I may or may not have pulled from a working tape. The > boot files are just text, short and easy to recreate, even with EDT. > The binary files are the problem. Especially the file(s) with the CPU's microcode. They are definitively not part of a standard VMS installation. The VMS tape, i mean. Otherwise, your method would work, i think. > > The reason for using the other VAX is to use it to easily create the > filesystem on the emulated tape. If you had a way to read the tape > that you do have, you could just put the image on the PC, run the > TU-58 emulator and go. How true! You see the Catch-22 i'm in? If i had a working tape, i could make me a working tape-image, so i would not need a working tape anymore. > > > > The tape from DEC was sub-optimized... > > [snip] > > > an was cut Jun21/84. > > Somewhat old - probably the very original tape that shipped with > the CPU. I think so. The machine comes from a measurement installation of one of our local gouvernment agencies. They validated beer-keg-volumes (obviously a very important thing to do in Germany 8-). So, it was just set up, fired up and left running 'till it has been replaced in the '90s. > > > Unfortunately i do not know the exact VMS version installed on my > > machine, because the only time got it booting i was so exited that > > i spoiled my notes. Very un-scientific, i know. > > Ah, well. > > > But i think it is VMS 3.2, IIRC. Or 3.6, that's the label on my > > "standalon backup"-tape. > > Hmm... my memory of those days is hazy... I played with 3.6, but that > was as a novice user on an 11/750. We did get an early model 11/730 > (order the week they were announced) - that's the one I have in storage. > By the time I touched it, it was running VMS 4.x. I installed Ultrix 1.1 > on it at one point (and hooked it to Usenet before the Great Renaming, > but that's another story), and it spent its last years as a linker box > for our product, running 5.x (we fed the objects and asm source to it > via 56K DECnet link, let it chew on the files, then transferred the > binaries back to our VMS 4.6 general-use 11/750 and put them in the tape > build area for making distribution tapes) Well, the bean-counters obviously never upgraded VMS on this one, so, my guess is that the version of VMS installed is the one that has been deliverede back then. > > I think all I am going to have for it is VMS 4.x and VMS 5.x console > media. I am fairly certain I had my customized tape for booting VMS 4.4 > in my hands on Sunday. I know exactly where it is. If that will work > for you, I may be able to help. I honestly do not recall how sensitive > the machine is to console tape version vs VMS version mismatch. I know > we didn't have to change the tapes on minor revs, but I do not recall > if we were forced to change for major revs. This, i don't know either. I would have to try this. [snip] regards ms -- Michael Schneider email: ms@vaxcluster.de Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de People disagree with me. I just ignore them. (Linus Torvalds) From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 16 12:12:14 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:41 2005 Subject: Alpha Naked Mini / QA country code Message-ID: Is anybody able or willing to help them? Where does Qatar stand in current politics? (what do they want to do with that disk???) -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:49:20 +0300 From: MICROSERVE To: info@xenosoft.com Subject: Please Help Dear Sir, I have very important 8" Floppy Disk and I need to make 20 copies Duplicate the floppy have very Old System used in Alpha LSI Naked Mini (4/90) Manufacture by Computer Automation in 1976 And this system used for Training Shooting Range Please inform me if possible for any cost? Best regards, Adnan Khanfer MICROSERE Doha - Qatar, Po Box 22904 Tel: + 974 4438779 - 4438767 Fax: + 974 4438710 Email: microgrp@qatar.net.qa From fernande at internet1.net Wed Jan 16 13:03:33 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:41 2005 Subject: Alpha Naked Mini / QA country code References: Message-ID: <3C45CE85.9CA2806B@internet1.net> I've never heard of it. Where is it? Depending on where it is, you might consider checking with the CIA. Wouldn't that be something, member of Classiccmp helps stop terrorist threat :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > Is anybody able or willing to help them? > > Where does Qatar stand in current politics? (what do they want to do with > that disk???) > > -- > Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com > XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 16 13:28:42 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: Alpha Naked Mini / QA country code In-Reply-To: <3C45CE85.9CA2806B@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I've never heard of it. Where is it? Depending on where it is, you > might consider checking with the CIA. Wouldn't that be something, > member of Classiccmp helps stop terrorist threat :-) It's apparently a tiny country surrounded on three sides by water (SALT-water), and Saudi Arabia. I did a google.com search, which brought up the CIA world factbook, (otherwise I wouldn't know where it was, either), but no immediate info about where it stands in current politics. ".QA" was a country code that I could not recall having seen before. ".TO" OTOH makes a tidy profit just from domain registrations. In terms of shooting range usage, ... The Dell Dude would make a better target. In terms of his request, I don't think that I can help much with that disk format, so I don't have a dilemna about XenoCopy sales (I got and ignored requests from Iraq for XenoCopy during "dessert storm") -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Jan 16 15:38:12 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: Alpha Naked Mini / QA country code In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > I've never heard of it. Where is it? Depending on where it is, you > > might consider checking with the CIA. Wouldn't that be something, > > member of Classiccmp helps stop terrorist threat :-) > > It's apparently a tiny country surrounded on three sides by water > (SALT-water), and Saudi Arabia. I did a google.com search, which > brought up the CIA world factbook, (otherwise I wouldn't know where it > was, either), but no immediate info about where it stands in current > politics. We're on fairly good terms with Qatar, though it's possible there might be some elements there that aren't terribly fond of the U.S., not unlike our situation with Saudi Arabia. Here's what I can find about the country on the U.S. State Department's website-- but it's from 1997: http://www.state.gov/r/pa/bgn/index.cfm?docid=5437 > ".QA" was a country code that I could not recall having seen > before. ".TO" OTOH makes a tidy profit just from domain registrations. Or more significantly, .TV which is for the island nation Tuvalu. They've got a 12 year deal with Idealabs (spawner of some of the biggest dotcom era flops) where Idealabs will be paying the country $1 million/quarter for registration privs on .tv domains. So... $48mill over the 12 year period. Given that their GDP was estimated at a little over $11 million in 1999, $12 million/year in revenue for .TV is pretty big. > In terms of his request, I don't think that I can help much with that > disk format, so I don't have a dilemna about XenoCopy sales (I got and > ignored requests from Iraq for XenoCopy during "dessert storm") Mmmmm... dessert storm. That was the really big pie fight we had with the Iraqis back in the early 1990s, right? Hopefully "The War Against Tiramisu" will leave less of a sticky mess in its aftermath. -brian. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 16 18:55:49 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: Alpha Naked Mini / QA country code In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > > ignored requests from Iraq for XenoCopy during "dessert storm") > Mmmmm... dessert storm. That was the really big pie fight we had with > the Iraqis back in the early 1990s, right? Hopefully "The War Against > Tiramisu" will leave less of a sticky mess in its aftermath. Thank you I wasn't sure whether anybody would pick up on that one. From rhudson at cnonline.net Wed Jan 16 16:03:54 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: Alpha Naked Mini / QA country code References: Message-ID: <3C45F8CA.6090006@cnonline.net> I just spoke with the local FBI agent here in San Jose, He did not know if Qatar is a "bad" country. I faxed the first message (sorry Fred, should have probably asked you) to him. He suggests that before one of us do help this fellow that we check with Customs or Department of Commerce. Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > >> I've never heard of it. Where is it? Depending on where it is, you >> might consider checking with the CIA. Wouldn't that be something, >> member of Classiccmp helps stop terrorist threat :-) > > > It's apparently a tiny country surrounded on three sides by water > (SALT-water), and Saudi Arabia. > I did a google.com search, which brought up the CIA world factbook, > (otherwise I wouldn't know where it was, either), but no immediate info > about where it stands in current politics. > > ".QA" was a country code that I could not recall having seen > before. ".TO" OTOH makes a tidy profit just from domain registrations. > > In terms of shooting range usage, ... > The Dell Dude would make a better target. > > In terms of his request, I don't think that I can help much with that disk > format, so I don't have a dilemna about XenoCopy sales (I got and ignored > requests from Iraq for XenoCopy during "dessert storm") > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From out2sea00 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 16 13:02:56 2002 From: out2sea00 at yahoo.com (Colin Eby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: IBM R390 IPL woes... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020116190256.27398.qmail@web14501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Norm Aleks wrote: > Hi, Colin. I'm trying to get a more-current MVS to > experiment with on > Hercules. Is that what you found, or was it just > the AIX? Was it on > p390.ibm.com? Norm -- You're right about the site. It's ftp://p390.ibm.com. The site covers all the multi-platform systems, and not just the AIX variant. And what I was after were the "support files". In other words the IO channel drivers. IBM doesn't publish iso's for the Application Development MVS there. And I'm guessing mine is as old as yours -- Jan 1997. For me, as a mainframe newbie crossing over from open systems, the version's irrelevant. But good luck locating images. Thanks, Colin Eby Senior Consultant CSC Consulting __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From out2sea00 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 16 13:38:31 2002 From: out2sea00 at yahoo.com (Colin Eby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: IBM R390 IPL woes... In-Reply-To: <15428.62708.754322.230544@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20020116193831.7061.qmail@web14504.mail.yahoo.com> Dave -- I appreciate you're coveting... but the system's not mine to give. It belongs to CSC, and was left-over from our Y2K group. They had just stuck it in a closet and forgotten it. As the resident UNIX guru at the time it was on my inventory. When I moved out into the field I claimed it as a workstation. Since nobody knew it existed, and since it was way past the 3-year depreciation cycle, there weren't any objections. Unforunately CSC doesn't allow for any internal purchasing because of liability issues. So I couldn't buy it off them. I too would like to get a hold of a board. The system here at the office is the 591. That's the earlier board design. There are three different versions. I'd love to get a hold of an MCA board like this one because I have equivalent RS6000 hardware in my private collection. I could easily host such a thing. The later boards are, I believe, PCI, and in two differnt versions. I've never seen the board appear on auction sites -- and I'm worried that anyone who did have one, might not know it, since it just sits in otherwise ordinary gear. The best I can tell you is watch out for specific models of hardware and hassle the seller to see if they omitted the board. The models are the PC330 and PC500 intel systems. And in RS6000 they've used F50, 591 and a few 390 systems. >From what I've learned so far -- you won't hear much about these systems in the open systems community. If you go trolling through vendor and support organization sites, stick to the mainframe folks. I'm afraid that's as much of a brain dump as I've got on sourcing these boards. If you do find a source, please pass the information on. I'd love to add one to my collection. Until then I'll have to deal with Hercules. Not that this is a bad thing. Hercules on a decent piece of hardware is considerably faster then a P390 board. The one I've got is all of 72mHz clock speed and 128MB RAM. You could build a much more substantial LINUX based system to host a mainframe operating system. Best wishes, Colin Eby Senior Consultant CSC Consulting __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jan 16 16:01:10 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: IBM R390 IPL woes... In-Reply-To: <20020116193831.7061.qmail@web14504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: These boards are still quite available. Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Colin Eby wrote: > Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:38:31 -0800 (PST) > From: Colin Eby > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > To: Dave McGuire , classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: IBM R390 IPL woes... > > Dave -- > > I appreciate you're coveting... but the system's not > mine to give. It belongs to CSC, and was left-over > from our Y2K group. They had just stuck it in a closet > and forgotten it. As the resident UNIX guru at the > time it was on my inventory. When I moved out into the > field I claimed it as a workstation. Since nobody knew > it existed, and since it was way past the 3-year > depreciation cycle, there weren't any objections. > Unforunately CSC doesn't allow for any internal > purchasing because of liability issues. So I couldn't > buy it off them. > > I too would like to get a hold of a board. The system > here at the office is the 591. That's the earlier > board design. There are three different versions. I'd > love to get a hold of an MCA board like this one > because I have equivalent RS6000 hardware in my > private collection. I could easily host such a thing. > The later boards are, I believe, PCI, and in two > differnt versions. I've never seen the board appear on > auction sites -- and I'm worried that anyone who did > have one, might not know it, since it just sits in > otherwise ordinary gear. The best I can tell you is > watch out for specific models of hardware and hassle > the seller to see if they omitted the board. The > models are the PC330 and PC500 intel systems. And in > RS6000 they've used F50, 591 and a few 390 systems. > > >From what I've learned so far -- you won't hear much > about these systems in the open systems community. If > you go trolling through vendor and support > organization sites, stick to the mainframe folks. I'm > afraid that's as much of a brain dump as I've got on > sourcing these boards. If you do find a source, please > pass the information on. I'd love to add one to my > collection. Until then I'll have to deal with > Hercules. Not that this is a bad thing. Hercules on a > decent piece of hardware is considerably faster then a > P390 board. The one I've got is all of 72mHz clock > speed and 128MB RAM. You could build a much more > substantial LINUX based system to host a mainframe > operating system. > > Best wishes, > Colin Eby > Senior Consultant > CSC Consulting > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! > http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ > From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jan 16 18:12:45 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: IBM R390 IPL woes... In-Reply-To: Re: IBM R390 IPL woes... (Colin Eby) References: <15428.62708.754322.230544@phaduka.neurotica.com> <20020116193831.7061.qmail@web14504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15430.5885.24408.323542@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 16, Colin Eby wrote: > I appreciate you're coveting... but the system's not > mine to give. It belongs to CSC, and was left-over > from our Y2K group. They had just stuck it in a closet > and forgotten it. As the resident UNIX guru at the > time it was on my inventory. When I moved out into the > field I claimed it as a workstation. Since nobody knew > it existed, and since it was way past the 3-year > depreciation cycle, there weren't any objections. > Unforunately CSC doesn't allow for any internal > purchasing because of liability issues. So I couldn't > buy it off them. Bummer. :-( It's cool that you get to hack on it, though! > I too would like to get a hold of a board. The system > here at the office is the 591. That's the earlier > board design. There are three different versions. I'd > love to get a hold of an MCA board like this one > because I have equivalent RS6000 hardware in my > private collection. I could easily host such a thing. > The later boards are, I believe, PCI, and in two > differnt versions. I've never seen the board appear on > auction sites -- and I'm worried that anyone who did > have one, might not know it, since it just sits in > otherwise ordinary gear. The best I can tell you is > watch out for specific models of hardware and hassle > the seller to see if they omitted the board. The > models are the PC330 and PC500 intel systems. And in > RS6000 they've used F50, 591 and a few 390 systems. I've seen a few go on eBay. They get...expensive. Painfully expensive. > >From what I've learned so far -- you won't hear much > about these systems in the open systems community. If > you go trolling through vendor and support > organization sites, stick to the mainframe folks. I'm > afraid that's as much of a brain dump as I've got on > sourcing these boards. If you do find a source, please > pass the information on. I'd love to add one to my > collection. Until then I'll have to deal with > Hercules. Not that this is a bad thing. Hercules on a > decent piece of hardware is considerably faster then a > P390 board. The one I've got is all of 72mHz clock > speed and 128MB RAM. You could build a much more > substantial LINUX based system to host a mainframe > operating system. Yes but then I'd have to deal with a PeeCee. And Linux. Thanks for the info though. :-) As I mentioned in other mail, I have a P/390 here (PCI version) that I haven't gotten running yet. The PeeCee hardware is doing what it does best...being an inconsistent pile of monkey turds. I hate PeeCees. I think I'm just gonna have to get an S/390 and deal with the electric bill. Might as well do it right. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jan 16 18:50:17 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: IBM R390 IPL woes... In-Reply-To: <15430.5885.24408.323542@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Jan 16, 2002 07:12:45 PM Message-ID: <200201170050.g0H0oH831352@narnia.int.dittman.net> > As I mentioned in other mail, I have a P/390 here (PCI version) that I > haven't gotten running yet. The PeeCee hardware is doing what it does > best...being an inconsistent pile of monkey turds. I hate PeeCees. I > think I'm just gonna have to get an S/390 and deal with the electric > bill. Might as well do it right. Well, if you decide to dump the P/390, I would like to buy it. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jan 16 19:21:40 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: IBM R390 IPL woes... In-Reply-To: <200201170050.g0H0oH831352@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > As I mentioned in other mail, I have a P/390 here (PCI version) that I > > haven't gotten running yet. The PeeCee hardware is doing what it does > > best...being an inconsistent pile of monkey turds. I hate PeeCees. I > > think I'm just gonna have to get an S/390 and deal with the electric > > bill. Might as well do it right. > > Well, if you decide to dump the P/390, I would like to buy it. Get in line. 8-) Peace... Sridhar From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jan 16 19:29:45 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: IBM R390 IPL woes... In-Reply-To: Re: IBM R390 IPL woes... (Boatman on the River of Suck) References: <200201170050.g0H0oH831352@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <15430.10505.7881.594163@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 16, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > > As I mentioned in other mail, I have a P/390 here (PCI version) that I > > > haven't gotten running yet. The PeeCee hardware is doing what it does > > > best...being an inconsistent pile of monkey turds. I hate PeeCees. I > > > think I'm just gonna have to get an S/390 and deal with the electric > > > bill. Might as well do it right. > > > > Well, if you decide to dump the P/390, I would like to buy it. > > Get in line. 8-) Hey, no fair, I GOT the darned thing from you! ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jan 16 19:27:05 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: IBM R390 IPL woes... In-Reply-To: Re: IBM R390 IPL woes... (Eric Dittman) References: <15430.5885.24408.323542@phaduka.neurotica.com> <200201170050.g0H0oH831352@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <15430.10345.674357.956517@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 16, Eric Dittman wrote: > > As I mentioned in other mail, I have a P/390 here (PCI version) that I > > haven't gotten running yet. The PeeCee hardware is doing what it does > > best...being an inconsistent pile of monkey turds. I hate PeeCees. I > > think I'm just gonna have to get an S/390 and deal with the electric > > bill. Might as well do it right. > > Well, if you decide to dump the P/390, I would like to buy it. Ahh, thanks for the offer, but I've gotta keep this one. :-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jan 16 19:27:05 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: IBM R390 IPL woes... In-Reply-To: <15430.5885.24408.323542@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > > From what I've learned so far -- you won't hear much > > about these systems in the open systems community. If > > you go trolling through vendor and support > > organization sites, stick to the mainframe folks. I'm > > afraid that's as much of a brain dump as I've got on > > sourcing these boards. If you do find a source, please > > pass the information on. I'd love to add one to my Try Reliable Computer. http://www.reliablecomputer.com/ Beware. though. Evem though you can get a P/390 and a Channel for $2,000, the OS license (for z/VM) will be about $20,000. And don't even think about getting a P/390E. > > collection. Until then I'll have to deal with > > Hercules. Not that this is a bad thing. Hercules on a > > decent piece of hardware is considerably faster then a > > P390 board. The one I've got is all of 72mHz clock > > speed and 128MB RAM. You could build a much more > > substantial LINUX based system to host a mainframe > > operating system. > > Yes but then I'd have to deal with a PeeCee. And Linux. Thanks for > the info though. :-) And you would have to deal with the lack of I/O and Memory bandwidth of a PC. A P/390 will *stomp* a PC running Hercules for most of the popular mainframe applications (eg. DB2, CICS, COBOL, etc.). > As I mentioned in other mail, I have a P/390 here (PCI version) that I > haven't gotten running yet. The PeeCee hardware is doing what it does > best...being an inconsistent pile of monkey turds. I hate PeeCees. I > think I'm just gonna have to get an S/390 and deal with the electric > bill. Might as well do it right. Or you could get yourself a PCI-based RS/6000 and not have to deal with any of the PC bullshit. Peace... Sridhar From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jan 16 19:32:30 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: IBM R390 IPL woes... In-Reply-To: Re: IBM R390 IPL woes... (Boatman on the River of Suck) References: <15430.5885.24408.323542@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15430.10670.894651.837924@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 16, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > And you would have to deal with the lack of I/O and Memory bandwidth of a > PC. A P/390 will *stomp* a PC running Hercules for most of the popular > mainframe applications (eg. DB2, CICS, COBOL, etc.). What he said. :) > Or you could get yourself a PCI-based RS/6000 and not have to deal with > any of the PC bullshit. That's what I'd really like to do, but I can't afford one right now... :-( -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From rschaefe at gcfn.org Wed Jan 16 18:37:51 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: Stuff I want to get rid of... References: <014f01c19e2d$cd938a80$a7469280@Y5F3Q8> <01f401c19e33$45ca6fa0$a7469280@Y5F3Q8> <3C459CE5.FAAEBE23@internet1.net> Message-ID: <010801c19ef7$5da527e0$8a469280@Y5F3Q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 10:31 AM Subject: Re: Stuff I want to get rid of... > Is this by any chance AT form factor? Was this an old BTOS machine? BTOS possibly, but not AT at all. It's a small box, 8" tall x 6" wide x 12" deep, ~10lbs. I believe it might have been part of a cash register, but might be mistaken. I made a half-hearted attempt to find info & peripherals for it a few years back, but didn't have a whole lot of success. > > Chad Fernandez Bob > Michigan, USA > > Robert Schaefer wrote: > > > > Oops-- I remembered one more thing. Burroughs B26 CPU box, '186 w/ 256K > > expansion cart., nothing else. > > > > Same deal, yours for shipping from zip 43211, Columbus Ohio, USA. > > > > ja ne! > > > > Bob From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 16 19:33:44 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, John Foust wrote: > > > From: "jkd1932" > > > Subject: IBM PC'S > > > > > > Mr. Foust, the organization I work with has two IBM PS/2, 286, PC's to > > > give to anyone who wants them. I am in the Washington,DC/Baltimore,MD > > > area. I have tried re-cycling groups, but they don't want them. Then I > > > thought there would be a collector who would interested. Both systems > > > are in excellent condition. I would appreciate your advice. I have > > > looked at the "Classic Computer Rescue List", but did not find anyone > > > who would be interested. > > > > Sounds like IBM PS/2 model 50 or model 60 machines. I already own > > several of each model, but someone here on the list must be looking > > for some of these. > > There was a model 25 (all-in-one) that was a 286 as well as the model > 30-286 too, so it could be a number of things. The 50 and 60 are > microchannel, 25 and 30-286 are ISA. Right, I didn't even think about the ISA machines. I've seen so many of the microchannel systems that I often forget about the others. As I think about it, I might actually have several model 25s instead of 50s. Guess I'll find out once I uncover them. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 16 19:44:46 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: trying to identify this 68K-based board... In-Reply-To: <53.1112f4b1.2977466e@aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/16/02 12:29:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, > vze2wsvr@verizon.net writes: > > > It is an ISA-16 card. It has a 68000, w/2 27128 EEPROMs, 16 1259-15 > > RAM chips and Intel chips, 82586 and 8253-5. The rest looks to be > > TTL, a couple of connectors and couple of crystals, 16 and 20 MHz. > > > > It was made by Bridge Communications, USA, in 1987. And it has a > > D-shell 15 pin (like a Mac video -2 rows of pins) female connector on > > the back. > > Could be an early AUI ethernet controller. The 82586 was intel's ethernet > co-processor. It worked with a CPU chip. Ungerman Bass used an 80186 with the > 82586 in their ethernet ISA cards. Might also be a 3270 emulator board. These often used a twinaxial passthru T type connector with a 15 pin D-shell connector on a pigtail that connected to the board. -Toth From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed Jan 16 13:19:28 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: ForSale/Trade: ADSL Modem & POTS line filter... Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014674ED@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Help! I just moved from West Haven to Hamden, but my SNET ADSL service didn't, err, can't. SO.... I have the ADSL equipment for sale: Efficient Networks (?) SpeedStream ADSL modem, and a filter/splitter that connects at the phone block in your basement! No need for filters at each phone... I would prefer to trade for a cable modem setup, (Comcast cable service); but won't turn down cash either ;-) --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From sieler at allegro.com Wed Jan 16 16:54:08 2002 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: (Fwd) [HP3000-L] HP3000 Equipment Message-ID: <3C459410.8179.B4742C2@localhost> Hi, Seen on another list... The HP 3000/922 is a PA-RISC system, running MPE/iX. It isn't supported by the PuffinGroup port of Linux. Just the computer is about the size of a 2-drawer file cabinet. ------- Forwarded message follows ------- Subject: [HP3000-L] HP3000 Equipment From: Dave Frandrup Barron County has an old HP3000/922RX with one 571MB Disk Drive and three 670MB Disk Drives and 48MB memory. Two 2563 line printers and one 2564 line printer. If interested in any or all of the equipment, please call Dave Frandrup (715) 537-6314 or email davef@co.barron.wi.us. Dave Frandrup Dir Technology Mgmt Ctr Barron, WI 54812 ------- End of forwarded message -------Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jan 16 17:26:36 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: (Fwd) [HP3000-L] HP3000 Equipment In-Reply-To: <3C459410.8179.B4742C2@localhost> from "Stan Sieler" at Jan 16, 2002 02:54:08 PM Message-ID: <200201162326.g0GNQar30881@narnia.int.dittman.net> > The HP 3000/922 is a PA-RISC system, running MPE/iX. It isn't supported > by the PuffinGroup port of Linux. Just the computer is about the size > of a 2-drawer file cabinet. Too big for me, and I'm not close, but I was told by an HP engineer that the PA-RISC HP3000 systems can be converted to the equivalent PA-RISC HP9000 by twiddling the firmware on the CPU card. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jan 16 19:54:20 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > Right, I didn't even think about the ISA machines. I've seen so many of > the microchannel systems that I often forget about the others. As I think > about it, I might actually have several model 25s instead of 50s. Guess > I'll find out once I uncover them. It's hard to confuse them. The 25 is an all-in-one. The easier ones to confuse are the 30 and the 55SX, as they came in the same case. Peace... Sridhar From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Jan 16 20:08:14 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: IBM R390 IPL woes... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > As I mentioned in other mail, I have a P/390 here (PCI version) that I > > > haven't gotten running yet. The PeeCee hardware is doing what it does > > > best...being an inconsistent pile of monkey turds. I hate PeeCees. I > > > think I'm just gonna have to get an S/390 and deal with the electric > > > bill. Might as well do it right. > > > > Well, if you decide to dump the P/390, I would like to buy it. > > Get in line. 8-) Personally, I'd say you've exceeded your S/390-gear quota. But then again maybe I'm just bitching because I have none and want one so badly :) -- Pat > Peace... Sridhar > From at258 at osfn.org Wed Jan 16 20:12:09 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: Decwriters In-Reply-To: <003301c19eee$db727140$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: I think there's a Decwriter III and possibly a IV available. On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, John Allain wrote: > Would it be hard to list the qty/models? > > John A. > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Jan 16 20:26:43 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: Decwriters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I think there's a Decwriter III and possibly a IV available. If you need one moved from RI to NY, talk to me off the list. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vaxman at earthlink.net Wed Jan 16 20:29:02 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: OT: Earthlink customer support Message-ID: I got my first invoice from Earthlink yesterday for two months worth of service. The only problem was I didn't have the modem for the first two weeks of it, so I thought I shouldn't have to pay for it. I sent an EMail to Earthlink explaining the situation, and requested a credit of $12.99 for the unused portion of the month, and they replied today with the information $13.00 had been creditted to my account, and an apology for the inconvience it caused. Clint is happy today... PS If anyone wants to switch to earthlink, mention my email address and I get a referral bonus, to be repaid in spare bits of junk er um antique computer parts :) From rcini at optonline.net Wed Jan 16 20:34:35 2002 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: Stupid Apple //c question Message-ID: I know that this is going to sound silly, but what version of DOS/ProDOS is designed to work with the //c? Or, should I ask if there was a special system disk for the //c? I have ready access to DOS 3.3, ProDOS 1.9 and 2.something. Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Jan 16 11:22:05 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: SGI Humor Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E109@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Ok, it's not quite on topic, but It's very funny... http://www.pueyrredon.com.ar/irix.htm Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Jan 16 12:02:12 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: What Pre-1985 Video Game Character Am I? In-Reply-To: <200201152248.QAA17471@caesar.cs.umn.edu> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020115160942.023b8678@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020116120021.023d9590@ubanproductions.com> Here is a pretty funny quiz to see what kind of (pre-'85) video game entity you might be. I seem to be an Asteroid! http://blog.ravenblack.net/quiz/videogame.pl --tom From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 16 20:52:51 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > Right, I didn't even think about the ISA machines. I've seen so many of > > the microchannel systems that I often forget about the others. As I think > > about it, I might actually have several model 25s instead of 50s. Guess > > I'll find out once I uncover them. > > It's hard to confuse them. The 25 is an all-in-one. The easier ones to > confuse are the 30 and the 55SX, as they came in the same case. Ok, then I think I remember what I have now. I don't have a 25, but I have worked on a number of them. I'm fairly sure that I have 4 machines that are a mix of 30 and 55SX. All of them were considered "junk" and left by a dealer after an auction, so I was able to adopt them. -Toth From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jan 16 21:02:50 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: Stupid Apple //c question In-Reply-To: from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at "Jan 16, 2 09:34:35 pm" Message-ID: <200201170302.TAA12994@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I know that this is going to sound silly, but what version of DOS/ProDOS is > designed to work with the //c? Or, should I ask if there was a special > system disk for the //c? I have ready access to DOS 3.3, ProDOS 1.9 and > 2.something. I don't think there was a *special* system boot disk. The ones I encountered were quite happy with vanilla DOS 3.3 or ProDOS 8-bit. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- ACTUAL CLASSIFIED AD: Parachute, used once, never opened, small stain. $100 From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Jan 16 21:08:04 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: TU-58 dumps (was Re: VAX 11/730 Problem) In-Reply-To: <20020115232212.2874.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020115232212.2874.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020117030804.GA21803@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Ethan Dicks, from writings of Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 03:22:12PM -0800: > --- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > > PS If you do get a dump, I'd appreciate a copy. I'm archiving all the > > TU58s I can find to CD-Rs... > > I'm doing the same thing. So far, I have about 20 tapes read in. :-( Here's a listing of the tapes that I have; are any of the following of particular interest? Alas, I've not gotten my tape drive to work yet, so I don't know definitely what is or isn't on these tapes, but if I can get it to work, I'll copy the data. I created the following list several years ago: Console: BE-T204A-DE TU58#41 VAX/750 Local Console (for V3.0, 1982). 2 VMS V3.2 LOCAL CONSOLE. 2 VAX/VMS 4.0 Console Boot, 11-84 -- March 10. 1 VAX 11/750 CONSOLE VMS 4.1A 2 VAX/VMS 4.4 11/750 Console 7/3/86. 1 CONSOLE VAX/VMS V4.4 CI REV7 TU58 2 VAX/VMS V4.5 Console(c) TU58 REV 7 11-750 12/8/86. 2 VAX/VMS V4.5 CONSOLE TU58 11750 (1986) 2 V5.3 CONSOLE 2 BE-T173J-DE VERSION 58 TU58#34 VAX 11/730 CONSOLE (1982) 2 BE-T173D-DE TU58#34 VAX 11730 CONSOLE (1983). 2 1984 CONSOLE. 2 BE-T204H-ME 021205 TU58#41 VAX11750 CONSOLE (1985). 2 Console DEC Standard (1985/1986, J-series?). 2 BSD: 4.2 BSD VAX UNIX System 8/23/83 Dist'n cassette: NOT a boot cassette. Contains standalone disk format. Copied 2/24/87. 1 VMS: Standalone backup VAX/VMS Patched MMDRIVER 1/2. 1 Standalone backup VAX/VMS Patched MMDRIVER 2/2. 1 VMS 4.2 W/SI upgrade. 1 BE-J298C-SE VS11-VAX DRVR V2.1 SRC TU58 (1982). 2 BE-K438D-BE VAX 2780/3780 PE V1.4 BIN TU58 (1983). 2 BE-K438D-BE VAX 2780/3780 PE V1.4 BIN TU58 (1983). 2 VAX-11 2780/3780 PROTOCOL EMULATOR 1/1. 2 Custom 750 boot GETVUB FP VEXSIM Jan. 31, 1986. 2 BE-S202M-DE TU58#9 CR/DISK USER MODE (1983). 2 BE-T538E-ME 021279 TU58#3 VAX 11750 MICRO PATCH (1984). 2 PCS 750 ECSAA E+E 6.15 EVSBA E+E 7.3 2 BE-S200I-DE TU58#7 VAX 11 HARDCORE INSTR (1980,84) 2 BE-S200G-DE TU58#7 VAX 11 HARDCORE INSTR EVKAB (1980,83) 2 BE-T538E-ME 029566 TU58#3 VAX 11750 MICRO PATCH (1984,84) 2 Curiosities: Unlabeled. 1 Unlabeled. 1 Unlabeled. 1 Unlabeled. 1 #16. 1 Unlabeled. 1 Unlabeled. 1 Unlabeled. 1 Unlabeled. 1 Unlabeled. 1 M # 2. 1 Unlabeled. 2 BAD. 2 M # 1. 2 ? 2 ? 2 ? 2 VMS: BE-N204A-BE VAX/VMS MANDATORY BIN TU58 (VMS MAND FOR V3.0, 1982). 2 BE-N470A-BE VAX/VMS V3.1 RTL FIX BIN TU58 (1982). 1 BE-N466A-BE VAX/VMS V3.1 BIN T58 1/4 (1982). 1 BE-N467A-BE VAX/VMS V3.1 BIN T58 2/4 (1982). 1 BE-N468A-BE VAX/VMS V3.1 BIN T58 3/4 (1982). 1 BE-N469A-BE VAX/VMS V3.1 BIN T58 4/4 (1982). 1 BE-P758A-BE VAX/VMS V3.2 BIN T58 1/4 (Update, 1983). 2 BE-P760A-BE VAX/VMS V3.2 BIN T58 3/4 (Update, 1983). 2 BE-P761A-BE VAX/VMS V3.2 BIN T58 4/4 (1983). 2 VAX/VMS Installation Package 9900-8741 SI303 REV:A V3.2 April 25, 1983. 1 BE-W590A-BE VAX/VMS V3.3 MAN UPD T58 (1983). 1 BE-U405A-BE VAX/VMS V3.3 BIN T58 1/4 (1983). 1 BE-U406A-BE VAX/VMS V3.3 BIN T58 2/4 (1983). 1 BE-U406A-BE VAX/VMS V3.3 BIN T58 2/4 (1983). 2 BE-U407A-BE VAX/VMS V3.3 BIN T58 3/4 (1983). 1 BE-V547A-BE VAX/VMS V3.3 BIN T58 4/4 (1983). 1 BE-W590A-BE VAX/VMS V3.3 MAN UPD T58 (1983). 2 BE-W733A-BE VAX/VMS V3.4 BIN T58 3/5 (1983). 2 BE-W735A-BE VAX/VMS V3.4 BIN T58 5/5 (1983). 2 BE-W735A-BE VAX/VMS V3.4 BIN T58 5/5 (1983). 1 BE-Z280A-BE VAX/VMS V3.5 BIN T58 2/4 (1983). 2 BE-BL76A-BE VAX/VMS V3.6 BIN T58, 1984. 1 BE-CJ32A-BE VAX/VMS V3.7 BIN T58 (1984). 1 BE-CJ32A-BE VAX/VMS V3.7 BIN T58 (1984). 2 BE-EF47A-BE 089320 VAX/VMS V4.1 UPD BIN TU58 1/4 (1985). 2 BE-EF49A-BE 021053 VAX/VMS V4.1 UPD BIN TU58 3/4 (1985). 2 BE-EF50A-BE 021040 VAX/VMS V4.1 UPD BIN TU58 4/4 (1985). 2 BE-EF50A-BE 021028 VAX/VMS V4.1 UPD BIN TU58 4/4 (1985). 2 BE-FY82A-E 038705 VAX/VMS V4.2 BIN TU58 MANDATORY UPDATE (1985). 2 BE-GZ54A-VE 049516 VAX/VMS V4.3 IN TU58 2/4 (1985). 2 BE-GZ55A-BE 049513 VAX/VMS V4.3 BIN TU58 3/4 (1985). 2 BE-GZ56A-BE 049511 VAX/VMS V4.3 BIN TU58 4/4 (1985). 2 Standalone Backup System_2 VMS 4.4 2/4. 1 Standalone Backup System_3 VMS 4.4 3/4. 1 Standalone Backup Backup VMS 4.4 4/4. 1 STABACKUP 2/4 SYSTEM_2 V4.5 12/86. 2 STABACKUP SYSTEM_3 3/4 V4.5 12/86. 2 BE-CT98D-E 0MUN0S2047 VMS 5.0 S/A BKUP TU58 2/5 (1988). 2 BE-CT97E-BE 000MUB6955 VMS 5.2 S/A BKUP TU58 1/5 (1989). 2 BE-CT99E-BE 000MUB6572 VMS V5.2 S/A BKUP TU58 3/5 (1989). 2 BE-LT91B-BE 000MUB6845 VMS V5.2 S/A BKUP TU58 5/5 (1989). 2 V5.2 7 bad blocks. 2 VAX 1 BOOT DUA1 DISK 6-22-90. 1 BE-HP51C-BE 0MUN0S2061 VMS S/A BKUP TU58 4/5 (1988). 2 BE-Z281A-BE VAX/VMS V3.5 BIN T58 3/4 (1983). 2 BE-W732A-BE VAX/VMS V3.4 BIN T58 2/5 (1983). 2 STABACKUP BACKUP 4/4 V4.5 12/86. 2 BE-HP51D-BE 000MUB7467 VMS V5.2 S/A BKUP TU58 4/5 (1989). 2 BE-EF48A-BE 089341 VAX/VMS V4.1 UPD BIN TU58 2/4 (1985). 2 BE-M758A-BE VAX/VMS V3.2 S/A BKUP T58 2/2 (1982). 2 BE-W735A-BE VAX/VMS V3.4 BIN T58 5/5 (1983). 2 BE-EF48A-BE 089344 VAX/VMS V4.1 UPD BIN TU58 2/4 (1985). 2 4.4 SABCKUP 3/4. 2 STABACKUP 1/4 SYSTEM-1 V4.5 12/86 2 BE-CT97D-BE 0MUN0S2041 VMS V5.0 S/A BKUP TU58 1/5 (1988) 2 BE-W733A-BE VAX/VMS V3.4 BIN T58 3/5 (1983) 2 BE-U450A-BE VAX/VMS V3.3 BIN T58 1/4 (1983) 2 BE-CT98E-BE 000MUB6958 VMS 5.2 S/A BKUP TU58 2/5 (1989) 2 BE-FY82B-BE 057012 VAX/VMS V4.4 BIN TU58 MANDATORY UPDATE (1986) 2 BE-LT91A-BE 0MUN0S2071 VMS V5.0 S/A BKUP TU58 5/5 (1988) 2 BE-Z279A-BE VAX/VMS V3.5 BIN T58 1/4 (1983) 2 VMS 4.4 18MAY87 SYSTEM #1 2 BE-W731A-BE VAX/VMS V3.4 BIN T58 1/5 (1983) 2 BE-U407A-BE VAX/VMS V3.3 BIN T58 3/4 (1983) 2 VMS 4.4 SYSTEM#3 18MAY87 2 BE-V547A-BE VAX/VMS V3.3 BIN T58 4/4 (1983) 2 4.4 SABCKUP 2/4 2 BE-CT99D-BE 0MUN0S2265 VMS V5.0 S/A BKUP TU58 3/5 (1988) 2 BE-EF47A-BE 089323 VAX/VMS V4.1 UPD BIN TU58 1/4 (1985) 2 BE-Z282A-BE VAX/VMS V3.5 BIN T58 4/4 (1983) 2 BE-Z236A-BE 179511 VAX/VMS 4.0 MAN/UPD T58 (1984) 2 BE-W734A-BE VAX/VMS V3.4 BIN T58 4/5 (1983) 2 BE-P759A-BE VAX/VMS V3.2 BIN T58 2/4 (1983) 2 BE-GZ53A-BE 049518 VAX/VMS V4.3 BIN TU58 1/4 (1985) 2 BE-BL76A-BE VAX/VMS V3.6 BIN T58 (1984) 2 BE-EF49A-BE 057471 VAX/VMS V4.1 UPD BIN TU58 3/4 (1985) 2 4.4 SABCKUP 1/4 2 V5 BOOT TAPE - NG 2 Diagnostics/Hardware: UDA 50/RA81 DIAGS. 1 BE-S200G-DE TU58#7 VAX 11 HARDCORE INSTR (1983). 1 BE-S405E-DE TU58#20 VAX SYS EXR/BUS INIT (1982). 1 BE-S202K-DE TU58#9 CR/DISK USER MODE (1982). 1 BE-T285A-DE TU58#43 VAX BUS TEST DIAG (1982). 1 BE-T538A-DE TU58#3 VAX 11750 MICRODIAG (1983). 2 BE-S198I-DE TU58#5 VAX750 CACHETB/MEM EXR (1992). 2 BE-T177C-DE TU58#37 VAX 11730 LOAD PATH (1982). 2 BE-T536E-DE 015222 TU58#51 VAX AUTOSIZER DIAG (1985). 2 BE-S405E-DE TU58#20 VAX SYS EXR/BUS INIT (1982). 2 BE-S402P-AE TU58#17 VAX 11750 RD DIAG (1983). 2 BE-U011-DE 045764 TU58#71 VAX TU81 DIAG (1984). 2 BE-T142C-DE TU58#33 VAX BUS DIAGNOSTICS EVDAA ECCBA (1983). 2 BE-T174B-DE TU58#39 VAX 11730 IDC DIAG (1982). 2 BE-S205C-DE TU58#12 RK611 DIAG #2 EVREC EVRED EVREE (1982). 2 BE-S208I-DE TU58#15 TS11/TE16/TU45/77DIAG (1982). 2 BE-S405F-DE TU58#20 VAX SYS EXR/BUS INIT (1983). 2 BE-T176-DE TU58#26 VAX 11730 MICRODIAG (1982) 2 BE-S207C-DE TU58#14 RM03/RM05 (1980,81) 2 BE-S199P-DE TU58#6 VAX 11750 DIAG SUPER DS7 (1981,83) 2 BE-S200E-DE TU58#7 VAX 11 HARDCORE INSTR (1980,82) 2 BE-S199M-DE TU58#6 VAX 11750 DIAG SUPER (1980,82) 2 BE-S202K-DE TU58#9 CR/DISK USER MODE (1980,82) 2 BE-S0290-DE ECKAA V8.05 TU51#1 11750 MICRO DPM V9.01 (1981,83) 2 BE-T285B-DE TU58#43 VAX BUS TEST DIAG (1982) 2 BE-S198K-DE TU58#5 VAX750 CACHETB/MEM/EXR ECKAM ECKAL (1981,83) 2 BE-S402S-AE TU58#17 VAX 11750 RD DIAG (1981,84) 2 BE-T300B-DE TU58#44 VAX UDA50/RA80-1 DIAG (1982) 2 BE-S199W-DE 015225 TU58#6 VAX 11750 DIAG SUPER (1981,85) 2 3rd Party - System Industries System Industries - SI LINK TAPE 9904-8701-9 REV. A1 V1.6A Date: 7/27/88. 1 3rd Party - Emulex EMULEX VD9960401 REV D VAX/VMS DEVICE DRIVERS VERSION 2.0. 1 EMULEX VD9960401 REV E VAX/VMS DEVICE DRIVERS. 1 3rd Party - DISC DISC-Digital Information Systems Corp. DBL V3.1 for use under VMS -DEMO- May 10, 1983. Expires 5/30/83. 2 HSC HSC50 Utilities V2.50 12/18/85. 2 BE-FN04B-BK 092482 HSC SOFTWARE UTL TU58 (1987). 2 BE-T492C-DE HSC50 SYSTEM DISPLAYED VERSION V110 (1984). 2 BE-T49211-ME HSC50 SYSTEM V2.50. 2 HSC50 UTILITIES V2.50 12/18/85 2 BE-T788C-DE HSC50 UTILITY DISPLAYED VERSION V110 (1984) 2 BE-T788D-DE 071994 HSC50 UTILITY TAPE V200 (1983,84) 2 HSC001 SYSTEM TAPE V2.5 2 FORTRAN BE-M873F-BE 016335 VAX FORTRAN V4.3 BIN TU58 2/2 FORT043 FORT02 (1985). 2 BE-J844L-BE VAX FORTRN V3.5 BIN TU58 1/2 FORT035 FORT01 (1984). 2 BE-M873C-BE VAX FOR V4.0 2/2 FORT040 FORT02. 2 BE-CJ51D-BE 016191 VAX FORTRAN V4.3 BIN TU58 1/1 FHLP043 FHLP01 (1985). 2 BE-CJ51C-BE 027377 VAX FORTRAN V4.2 BIN TU58 1/1 FHLP042 FHLP01 (1985). 2 BE-M873F-BE 016334 VAX FORTRAN V4.3 BIN TU58 2/2 FORT043 FORT02 (1985) 2 VAX-11 FORTRAN V3.0 2/2 2 BE-M873E-BE 016075 VAX FORTRAN V4.2 BIN TU58 2/2 FORT042 FORT02 (1985) 2 BE-CJ51E-BE 061773 VAX FORTRAN V4.4 BIN TU58 1/1 FHLP044 FHLP01 (1985) 2 BE-J844K-BE VAXFORTV3 V3.4 BIN TU58 1/2 (1983) 2 BE-J844Q-BE 061768 VAX FORTRAN V4.4 BIN TU58 1/2 FORT044 FORT01 2 BE-M873G-BE 061762 VAX FORTRAN V4.4 BIN TU58 2/2 FORT044 FORT02 2 BE-J844M-BE FORTRAN V4.0 FORT040 FORT01 1/2 2 BE-J8440-BE 015134 VAX FORTRAN V4.2 BIN TU58 1/2 FORT042 FORT01 (1985) 2 BE-J844P-BE 016181 VAX FORTRAN V4.3 BIN TU58 1/2 FORT043 FORT01 (1985) 2 BE-M873E-BE 015082 VAX FORTRAN V4.2 BIN TU58 2/2 FORT042 FORT02 (1985) 2 BE-M873I-BE 091879 VAX FORTRAN V4.6 BIN TU58 2/2 FORT046 FORT02 (1987) 2 BE-CJ51A-BE FORTRAN V4.0 1/1 FHLP040 FHLP01 2 BE-M873B-BE VAX FORTRAN BIN TU58 2/2 FORT035 FORT02 (1984) 2 VAX-11 FORTRAN V3.1 1/2 VAXFORTV3 2 DECnet BE-DL08A-BE 029660 DECNET-VAX V4 FULL FUNC TU58 (1984). 2 -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rhblakeman at kih.net Wed Jan 16 21:07:18 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Model 40 and below are ISA, 50 series and above are microchannel. The 30-286 and 55SX used the same case but the 30 (8086) had a similar but plastic beige/brown (as opposed to all beige steel) case. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Julius Sridhar Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 7:54 PM To: Tothwolf Cc: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > Right, I didn't even think about the ISA machines. I've seen so many of > the microchannel systems that I often forget about the others. As I think > about it, I might actually have several model 25s instead of 50s. Guess > I'll find out once I uncover them. It's hard to confuse them. The 25 is an all-in-one. The easier ones to confuse are the 30 and the 55SX, as they came in the same case. Peace... Sridhar From rhblakeman at kih.net Wed Jan 16 21:07:20 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The 35 and 56 also had similar cases despite one is ISA and one is microchannel. The 60, 65 and 80 towers are very easy to mistake as the only external difference is the logo plate. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Julius Sridhar Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 7:54 PM To: Tothwolf Cc: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > Right, I didn't even think about the ISA machines. I've seen so many of > the microchannel systems that I often forget about the others. As I think > about it, I might actually have several model 25s instead of 50s. Guess > I'll find out once I uncover them. It's hard to confuse them. The 25 is an all-in-one. The easier ones to confuse are the 30 and the 55SX, as they came in the same case. Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jan 16 21:20:53 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Model 40 and below are ISA, 50 series and above are microchannel. The 30-286 > and 55SX used the same case but the 30 (8086) had a similar but plastic > beige/brown (as opposed to all beige steel) case. Don't forget that the L40SX is also Microchannel. Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jan 16 21:22:02 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > The 35 and 56 also had similar cases despite one is ISA and one is > microchannel. The 60, 65 and 80 towers are very easy to mistake as the only > external difference is the logo plate. There are others too. Like the 85 and the 95. The 195, 295 and the 8600. A couple others. Peace... Sridhar From rhblakeman at kih.net Wed Jan 16 21:27:54 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The mix is probably from 30-286 and 55SX, regular 30 parts usually don't mix with 55SX stuff. (I have probablt 50 55SX's to get rid of and maybe 5 30-286's so I have pulled certain parts on occasion for the other, lids and bezels mostly) -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tothwolf Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 8:53 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > Right, I didn't even think about the ISA machines. I've seen so many of > > the microchannel systems that I often forget about the others. As I think > > about it, I might actually have several model 25s instead of 50s. Guess > > I'll find out once I uncover them. > > It's hard to confuse them. The 25 is an all-in-one. The easier ones to > confuse are the 30 and the 55SX, as they came in the same case. Ok, then I think I remember what I have now. I don't have a 25, but I have worked on a number of them. I'm fairly sure that I have 4 machines that are a mix of 30 and 55SX. All of them were considered "junk" and left by a dealer after an auction, so I was able to adopt them. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 16 21:31:16 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > > Right, I didn't even think about the ISA machines. I've seen so many > > > of the microchannel systems that I often forget about the others. > > > As I think about it, I might actually have several model 25s > > > instead of 50s. Guess I'll find out once I uncover them. > > > > It's hard to confuse them. The 25 is an all-in-one. The easier ones > > to confuse are the 30 and the 55SX, as they came in the same case. > > Model 40 and below are ISA, 50 series and above are microchannel. The > 30-286 and 55SX used the same case but the 30 (8086) had a similar but > plastic beige/brown (as opposed to all beige steel) case. Well, at least I've got a general idea what I've got stored away now. I may have to go unbury them tonight, just to satisfy my curiosity. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 16 21:34:32 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > > Right, I didn't even think about the ISA machines. I've seen so many > > > of the microchannel systems that I often forget about the others. > > > As I think about it, I might actually have several model 25s > > > instead of 50s. Guess I'll find out once I uncover them. > > > > It's hard to confuse them. The 25 is an all-in-one. The easier ones > > to confuse are the 30 and the 55SX, as they came in the same case. > > The 35 and 56 also had similar cases despite one is ISA and one is > microchannel. The 60, 65 and 80 towers are very easy to mistake as the > only external difference is the logo plate. I know I have 3 model 60 machines in various conditions. What was the fastest 486 class microchannel machine that was made? -Toth From wpointon at earthlink.net Wed Jan 16 21:53:01 2002 From: wpointon at earthlink.net (bill pointon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: there is also the 30 with the 80186 - also isa -- billp On Wednesday, January 16, 2002, at 10:20 PM, Julius Sridhar wrote: > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > >> Model 40 and below are ISA, 50 series and above are microchannel. The >> 30-286 >> and 55SX used the same case but the 30 (8086) had a similar but plastic >> beige/brown (as opposed to all beige steel) case. > > Don't forget that the L40SX is also Microchannel. > > Peace... Sridhar > From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jan 16 22:06:46 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, bill pointon wrote: > there is also the 30 with the 80186 - also isa -- billp I know. He had made the observation that all Models 40 and below were ISA, and I was pointing out the oddball exception. The PS/2 L40SX is Microchannel. Peace... Sridhar From rhblakeman at kih.net Wed Jan 16 22:19:06 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There aren't a lot of those around either... -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of bill pointon Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 9:53 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area there is also the 30 with the 80186 - also isa -- billp On Wednesday, January 16, 2002, at 10:20 PM, Julius Sridhar wrote: > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > >> Model 40 and below are ISA, 50 series and above are microchannel. The >> 30-286 >> and 55SX used the same case but the 30 (8086) had a similar but plastic >> beige/brown (as opposed to all beige steel) case. > > Don't forget that the L40SX is also Microchannel. > > Peace... Sridhar > From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jan 16 21:57:24 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > I know I have 3 model 60 machines in various conditions. What was the > fastest 486 class microchannel machine that was made? Well, first the 60 isn't a 486. It's a 286. The fastest Intel-based Microchannel machine was the IBM PC Server 720. It has 6 Pentiums. The fastest Microchannel 486 was the IBM PC Server Server 95A with a 486DX2-66, but Pentium was already out by then. Peace... Sridhar From rhblakeman at kih.net Wed Jan 16 21:58:38 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It's a toss between a few of them running 486DX2-66 and better, mostly the Server 95-486, the 90 and 70. They all had a L2 cache option in various configs making them way fastre than the SLC and non-cached versions. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tothwolf Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 9:35 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > > Right, I didn't even think about the ISA machines. I've seen so many > > > of the microchannel systems that I often forget about the others. > > > As I think about it, I might actually have several model 25s > > > instead of 50s. Guess I'll find out once I uncover them. > > > > It's hard to confuse them. The 25 is an all-in-one. The easier ones > > to confuse are the 30 and the 55SX, as they came in the same case. > > The 35 and 56 also had similar cases despite one is ISA and one is > microchannel. The 60, 65 and 80 towers are very easy to mistake as the > only external difference is the logo plate. I know I have 3 model 60 machines in various conditions. What was the fastest 486 class microchannel machine that was made? -Toth From rhblakeman at kih.net Wed Jan 16 22:03:32 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You'll know the 30 from the 30-286 when you see the bottom (where the 55SX and 30-286 have their ID tags) is dark brown, the case is plastic (on the 30) and there are 4 screws on the 30 as opposed to the 30-286 and 55SX with 2 on a steel lid/case. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tothwolf Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 9:31 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > > Right, I didn't even think about the ISA machines. I've seen so many > > > of the microchannel systems that I often forget about the others. > > > As I think about it, I might actually have several model 25s > > > instead of 50s. Guess I'll find out once I uncover them. > > > > It's hard to confuse them. The 25 is an all-in-one. The easier ones > > to confuse are the 30 and the 55SX, as they came in the same case. > > Model 40 and below are ISA, 50 series and above are microchannel. The > 30-286 and 55SX used the same case but the 30 (8086) had a similar but > plastic beige/brown (as opposed to all beige steel) case. Well, at least I've got a general idea what I've got stored away now. I may have to go unbury them tonight, just to satisfy my curiosity. -Toth From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jan 16 19:34:30 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: PDP-8/S References: Message-ID: <3C462A26.38664038@jetnet.ab.ca> I am forwarding this interesting bit of news from the PDP-8 newsgroup that John has to say. John Curnow wrote: > > Anyone interested in buying my PDP-8/S? > > I only have the computer itself, with no peripherals. > It is complete and seems to work. I did toggle a small program into it about > ten years ago and it worked fine. It is circa 1966 and the serial number is > 127. > > Contact me by email if you are interested. I can send you some pictures and > more details. > > Cheers, > John Curnow > jcurnow@mondenet.com From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Jan 16 22:30:52 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: Stupid Apple //c question Message-ID: <13f.7d4d566.2977ad7c@aol.com> In a message dated 1/16/2002 9:38:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, rcini@optonline.net writes: << I know that this is going to sound silly, but what version of DOS/ProDOS is designed to work with the //c? Or, should I ask if there was a special system disk for the //c? I have ready access to DOS 3.3, ProDOS 1.9 and 2.something. >> any of them will work. Prodos will give you a /RAM volume since the computer has 128k. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 16 22:33:51 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > I know I have 3 model 60 machines in various conditions. What was the > > fastest 486 class microchannel machine that was made? > > Well, first the 60 isn't a 486. It's a 286. That I know they are 286 class, I didn't mean to imply that I thought they were a 486. Two of the three machines have an Intel snap-in 386 installed, so they have a subset of the 386 instruction set available, but are still basically 286 machines. > The fastest Intel-based Microchannel machine was the IBM PC Server > 720. It has 6 Pentiums. The fastest Microchannel 486 was the IBM PC > Server Server 95A with a 486DX2-66, but Pentium was already out by > then. I'd like to find a 486 or pentium class microchannel machine to test software with one of these days. I'm just not sure what I should be looking for. -Toth From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Jan 16 22:33:37 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:42 2005 Subject: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area Message-ID: <6d.20c325e3.2977ae21@aol.com> In a message dated 1/16/2002 11:13:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, vance@ikickass.org writes: << On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, bill pointon wrote: > there is also the 30 with the 80186 - also isa -- billp I know. He had made the observation that all Models 40 and below were ISA, and I was pointing out the oddball exception. The PS/2 L40SX is Microchannel. Peace... Sridhar >> well don't forget that neat little PS/2E ISA machine. I lucked out and got two cheaply in their boxes simply because the person that had them didnt understand MCA error codes. You can get lots of PS/2s cheaply that way. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 16 22:30:38 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: TU-58 dumps (was Re: VAX 11/730 Problem) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020117043038.96852.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> --- Doc wrote: > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > The reason for using the other VAX is to use it to easily create the > > filesystem on the emulated tape. If you had a way to read the tape > > that you do have, you could just put the image on the PC, run the > > TU-58 emulator and go. > > OK, the reason I haven't joined this thread before is that I'm almost > entirely ignorant wrt console tapes. Plus, up to this point an emulated > TU-58 wouldn't get data off the orphan tapes, so an emulator wouldn't > help much. Not if you were starting from absolute scratch. One idea I had was that if you had another VAX, one that has the binary files that the console tape needs (the text files can be fairly easily created - they are less than a page of text each), there might be a way to squirt the files into the TU-58 emulator that could be pulled back out by the target 11/730. > My question is, why go the small-PC route instead of using something > like the TU-58 emulator at > http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/TU58_Emulator.htm ? > > It is really a question, not a suggestion. I think I'm missing a > point somewhere.... The point, at least for me, is that, while the hardware emulator is cool, the software/PC emulator is cheaper by loads - more power draw, but it doesn't have to be on full-time. Personally, I would probably throw a 16Mb box w/multiple serial ports and an ethernet port, all Linux-friendly. That way, I could log in remotely from another point on my network, and play with the files used by the emulator. DOS would not allow that. Hey... you could even throw up Apache and put the emulator data files in a place that could be inspected by a cgi-script for "web-u-lation". :-) I think the hardware-based TU-58 emulator is really cool, but I'm more likely to throw together something in a $10 PeeCee-oid box. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jan 16 22:47:19 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > There aren't a lot of those around either... I have one. Along with an N51SX, and one of my prized possessions, a CL57SX. I want to get the Thinkpad 700 (some models were also Microchannel, if not all) and the Thinkpad Power Seried 830. Peace... Sridhar From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 16 22:48:27 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: TU-58 dumps (was Re: VAX 11/730 Problem) In-Reply-To: <20020117030804.GA21803@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20020117044827.98243.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> --- "R. D. Davis" wrote: > Quothe Ethan Dicks, from writings of Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 03:22:12PM > -0800: > > --- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > > > PS If you do get a dump, I'd appreciate a copy. I'm archiving all the > > > TU58s I can find to CD-Rs... > > > > I'm doing the same thing. So far, I have about 20 tapes read in. :-( > > Here's a listing of the tapes that I have; are any of the following of > particular interest? Yes... a cursory search of the list shows me a few items that may fill in some gaps in my collection of VMS 3.x tapes. I have read in what I can; some tapes just plain would _not_ read in completely (I could probably read some blocks) and at least one was recycled by a cow-orker 15 years ago. > Alas, I've not gotten my tape drive to work yet... Can I help? To get my tapes read, I took a TU-58 drive assembly that came out of an 11/725 or 11/730 _years_ ago when we bought them to strip for parts (cheaper than paying DEC for maintenance), and set it on top of a Windows PC. For power, I rigged up a PC-drive-power-to-TU-58-PCB cable (I had a connector that would fit the inside of the tape drive; I didn't have one for the outside connector). For data, I took a DLV11J bulkhead panel from my DataRAM Qbus box (faster than building a cable from scratch), and used my box of RJ-45 serial connectors and cables to match up the back of the PC with the DataRAM breakout panel. I have used several pieces of software, some from list members here, to pull the data from the TU-58 and build images. If I can help with specific problem you might be having, please feel free to ask. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From mrbill at mrbill.net Wed Jan 16 22:54:39 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: What DEC item are these from? Message-ID: <20020117045438.GW16156@mrbill.net> Anybody know what DEC item these are from? I got a bunch of them (at the time, in a little foam "holder" in a box) a few months ago with a big batch of PDP-11 stuff, but my dog got ahold of it and they're now all over a section of the carpet in my garage.. http://www.mrbill.net/~mrbill/bulbs.jpg Are they worth picking up and saving, or should I just get out the vaccuum? Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jan 16 23:06:36 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: <6d.20c325e3.2977ae21@aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > well don't forget that neat little PS/2E ISA machine. I lucked out and got > two cheaply in their boxes simply because the person that had them didnt > understand MCA error codes. You can get lots of PS/2s cheaply that way. I'd love to have one. There aren't that many still in operating condition. Peace... Sridhar From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jan 16 23:03:09 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: What DEC item are these from? In-Reply-To: <20020117045438.GW16156@mrbill.net> from "Bill Bradford" at Jan 16, 2002 10:54:39 PM Message-ID: <200201170503.g0H539732039@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Anybody know what DEC item these are from? I got a bunch of them > (at the time, in a little foam "holder" in a box) a few months ago > with a big batch of PDP-11 stuff, but my dog got ahold of it and > they're now all over a section of the carpet in my garage.. > > http://www.mrbill.net/~mrbill/bulbs.jpg > > Are they worth picking up and saving, or should I just get out the > vaccuum? It's hard to tell from the picture. These could be bulbs, or they could be fuses. Is the clear part plastic, and does it have a flat top? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 16 23:04:29 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: What DEC item are these from? In-Reply-To: <20020117045438.GW16156@mrbill.net> from "Bill Bradford" at Jan 16, 2002 10:54:39 PM Message-ID: <200201170504.g0H54Tc02217@shell1.aracnet.com> > Anybody know what DEC item these are from? I got a bunch of them > (at the time, in a little foam "holder" in a box) a few months ago > with a big batch of PDP-11 stuff, but my dog got ahold of it and > they're now all over a section of the carpet in my garage.. > > http://www.mrbill.net/~mrbill/bulbs.jpg > > Are they worth picking up and saving, or should I just get out the > vaccuum? They look like bulbs from a PDP-8/e front-panel. I'm not sure what the bulbs for various peices of PDP-11 equipment look like. My advice, pick them up and get rid of the dog. Zane From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Jan 16 18:16:45 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020117051643.PUMZ16876.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 23:06:46 -0500 (EST) > From: Julius Sridhar > To: bill pointon > Cc: > Subject: Re: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, bill pointon wrote: > > > there is also the 30 with the 80186 - also isa -- billp > Sridhar scribbled: > I know. He had made the observation that all Models 40 and below were > ISA, and I was pointing out the oddball exception. The PS/2 L40SX is > Microchannel. Certain!? This L40SX is ISA, no way to have ATA notebook HD mixed in if that thing is MCA. Resources on 'net is certain of that that I know is reputatable. Got L40SX? Look at HD, it is stock ATA 2.5" HD. I was that close in summer of '93 because I didn't know if that L40SX did have standard ATA 2.5" hd but also didn't know it does use somewhat standard 72pin simms. Sigh... ended up w/ LTE 386s/20, it served me ok for first 3 years then battery died, and other things started to wear out and break up. Typical of compaq's. Years later, on 'net I found out what L40SX's stuff were. Cheers, Wizard From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Jan 16 18:27:32 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020117052823.NSEJ8004.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Russ Blakeman" > To: > Subject: RE: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area > Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:03:32 -0600 > Importance: Normal > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > You'll know the 30 from the 30-286 when you see the bottom (where the 55SX > and 30-286 have their ID tags) is dark brown, the case is plastic (on the > 30) and there are 4 screws on the 30 as opposed to the 30-286 and 55SX with > 2 on a steel lid/case. 30 and 30-286 same case but made for ISA but all 25, 30 and 30-286, rare 386 based are same planar layout and mountings. 55SX bit different design due to MCA riser and rear plates but similar in general. As I write this at pcstuff where I work part-time, in fact there's a 55SX w/ reply upgrade board, I think this one is turboboard in it (486 SLC). Stuffed between card riser and the PSU w/ reply bracket for 400mb ATA HD along w/ MCA IDE original HD in that thing. UGH. That bracket looks poorly made that ATA HD sat bit higher and at an angle. That means u have to force the case on to seat right. FYI: that 55SX owner is heavy smoker. BLEECH! Cheers, Wizard From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 16 23:17:20 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: What DEC item are these from? In-Reply-To: <20020117045438.GW16156@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Bill Bradford wrote: > http://www.mrbill.net/~mrbill/bulbs.jpg > > Are they worth picking up and saving, or should I just get out the > vaccuum? I've used similar or the same bulbs in many instrument panels. Not sure what kinds of computers used them tho. -Toth From tom at sba.miami.edu Wed Jan 16 23:36:18 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: PDP-11 with real ADV11-C board still unhappy In-Reply-To: <200201170503.g0H539732039@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: I finally managed to obtain an ADV11-C without parting with a large sum of money, but unfortunately, it didn't solve my problem. The system still hangs at the same point it did when I used a DZ to "fake" the ADV11 by setting its CSR to 770400. If I remove the ADV11, the program runs, but it is forced into its simulate mode because the missing hardware. I set the vector to the default on the DRV11, DRV11-B, and ADV11-C. I didn't check the serial module though. Could this be a vector setting problem, or do I have the wrong symptoms? Is there anything I can learn by halting the system when its hung and looking at addresses in memory? I did try doing a "770400/" and it returned 000000, with the module out it gives a ?, so that seems good. 770402, the data buffer returns 007777. Does anyone know what to try next? I'm running out of ideas. The only difference between my system and the one I'm trying to replace is that the backplane is 4 slot instead of 9, I don't have a BDV11-A like the original had, and I have a DSD systems generic RX02, instead of the real DEC M8029. Also, do the limit of backplane space, my modules are in a slightly different order. Thanks again, Tom From mrbill at mrbill.net Wed Jan 16 23:37:09 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: What DEC item are these from? In-Reply-To: <200201170503.g0H539732039@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <20020117045438.GW16156@mrbill.net> <200201170503.g0H539732039@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20020117053709.GX16156@mrbill.net> On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 11:03:09PM -0600, Eric Dittman wrote: > It's hard to tell from the picture. These could be bulbs, or they > could be fuses. Is the clear part plastic, and does it have a flat > top? Look at the url - bulbs.jpg. 8-) Round top on the clear part. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jan 16 23:48:48 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: What DEC item are these from? In-Reply-To: <20020117053709.GX16156@mrbill.net> from "Bill Bradford" at Jan 16, 2002 11:37:09 PM Message-ID: <200201170548.g0H5mmf32345@narnia.int.dittman.net> > On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 11:03:09PM -0600, Eric Dittman wrote: > > It's hard to tell from the picture. These could be bulbs, or they > > could be fuses. Is the clear part plastic, and does it have a flat > > top? > > Look at the url - bulbs.jpg. 8-) > > Round top on the clear part. The fuses I'm thinking of look kind of like bulbs, and some of them in the picture looked like they might have flat tops, so I figured I'd make sure. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From marvin at rain.org Wed Jan 16 23:25:42 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: Old Cross References, etc. Message-ID: <3C466056.2AEED489@rain.org> How important is it to keep old catalogs, cross-reference data, component buyers guides, data books, data sheets, etc.??? I've collected a LOT of the above from about the mid 70's and while not ready to dispose of it yet, I am really curious what others on this list think about keeping such stuff. As for some examples: RCA SK Cross Reference/Replacement Catalog 1974 IC Master 1976 C&K Switch Catalog Printouts of instructions for CP/M utilities, programs, etc. And on the topic of getting rid of stuff, I had been in contact with some list members last year about IIRC HP tapes, OS/2 something, etc. A lot of that stuff got packed away (we had company) and I am just starting to dig stuff out again. I can't remember who wanted this stuff, so if you will email me with what we had discussed, I'll keep my eyes open for the stuff and get back to you as I find it. Thanks. From blstuart at bellsouth.net Wed Jan 16 23:29:04 2002 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: SCSI Question In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 16 Jan 2002 00:08:59 -0600 (CST) . Message-ID: In message , To thwolf writes: >On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 blstuart@bellsouth.net wrote: >> So my question is, does anyone know where to find an adapter with male >> connectors? Or, for that matter, has anyone dealt with this sort of >> thing and have a better suggestion? > >See the comp.periphs.scsi faq, located here: > http://www.faqs.org/faqs/scsi-faq/part1/ > http://www.faqs.org/faqs/scsi-faq/part2/ > >Your question is answered in part 1 of the far in the section >"Can I connect a WIDE device to my narrow SCSI host adapter?" I did find that helpful. It's part of how I came to believe that I might have some hope with an adapter with high-byte termination. Now if I can just find one with the right genders... Thanks, Brian From blstuart at bellsouth.net Wed Jan 16 23:32:08 2002 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: SCSI Question In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:16:57 -0600 . <20020116151657.GB372299@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: In message <20020116151657.GB372299@uiuc.edu>, Dan Wright writes: >most (possibly all) of those won't work in sun4c machines. For example, the >"Happy Meal" Fast Ethernet/wide SCSI controller prevents an SS2 from >booting... > >Geoff Reed said: >> get a Wide-Scsi SBUS controller? I've seen 'em relatively cheap on e-pay >> and other locations... Good to know. I had actually thought to look for one, but was unaware of the compatibility problems. I may look to see if there's one known to work with the SS2. But it's still not my ideal solution since I'd have to find an external case with a wide connector and I was hoping to install the drive in one of the cases I already have. Thanks, Brian From blstuart at bellsouth.net Wed Jan 16 23:39:13 2002 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: SCSI Question In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:22:44 -0600 (CST) . Message-ID: In message , Paul Thompson writes: >> blstuart@bellsouth.net said: >> > To make a (semi-)long story short, I've come to the >> > conclusion that I need a SCSI1 to SCSI3 adapter with >> > high byte termination to connect a wide IBM SCSI drive >> > to the narrow SCSI controller in my SS2. The only > >Some IBM drives have a jumper which will hard code the drive into narrow >mode. This might be an easy solution in which case all you would need is >the 50->68 pin adapter. Check the storage.ibm.com website as there are a >number of jumper documents there. This one does have a jumper that disables target initiated wide negotiation. I did try that and it didn't seem to help. The docs I found also indicated that some of that model were shipped with on-board termination. I tried jumpering the drive to enable it, but that also didn't seem to help. I'd love to hear that I'm just missing the magic jumpers, but so far no combination I've tried works. The wierd thing is that the drive doesn't even respond to the probe-scsi command from the PROM monitor. But I plugged it into a wide interface on a machine at work and all was well. Thanks, Brian From blstuart at bellsouth.net Wed Jan 16 23:56:17 2002 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: SCSI Question In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:18:15 -0600 . <20020116151815.GC372299@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: In message <20020116151815.GC372299@uiuc.edu>, Dan Wright writes: >Try UltraSpec Cables (http://www.ultraspec.com/) -- they make cables and >adapters to go from (anything)->(anything else). A little expensive, but the >quality is fantastic... They do have some good stuff, but I didn't find what I was looking for. One one of their products, they suggested that nearly all drives can do high-byte termination but I can't find a way to do that on this drive. Thanks, Brian From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jan 17 00:00:39 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: <20020117051643.PUMZ16876.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Jan 2002 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > This L40SX is ISA, no way to have ATA notebook HD mixed in if that > thing is MCA. Resources on 'net is certain of that that I know is > reputatable. Sure there is. MCA -> ATA circuitry. Weird Stuff (tm). Peace... Sridhar From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jan 17 01:05:47 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: What DEC item are these from? In-Reply-To: What DEC item are these from? (Bill Bradford) References: <20020117045438.GW16156@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <15430.30667.414406.639849@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 16, Bill Bradford wrote: > Anybody know what DEC item these are from? I got a bunch of them > (at the time, in a little foam "holder" in a box) a few months ago > with a big batch of PDP-11 stuff, but my dog got ahold of it and > they're now all over a section of the carpet in my garage.. > > http://www.mrbill.net/~mrbill/bulbs.jpg > > Are they worth picking up and saving, or should I just get out the > vaccuum? These are PDP8 front-panel bulbs...also used in RK05s and many other things. Definitely save them. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jan 17 02:37:17 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: Old Cross References, etc. In-Reply-To: Marvin Johnston "Old Cross References, etc." (Jan 16, 21:25) References: <3C466056.2AEED489@rain.org> Message-ID: <10201170837.ZM7194@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 16, 21:25, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > How important is it to keep old catalogs, cross-reference data, > component buyers guides, data books, data sheets, etc.??? I've collected > a LOT of the above from about the mid 70's and while not ready to > dispose of it yet, I am really curious what others on this list think > about keeping such stuff. As for some examples: > > RCA SK Cross Reference/Replacement Catalog > 1974 IC Master Those are definitely worth keeping, if you do repairs or build your own hardware. > 1976 C&K Switch Catalog Probably. > Printouts of instructions for CP/M utilities, programs, etc. Depends on the programs. The common ones aren't hard to find docs for on the net. If you have the software, keep the printouts. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jan 17 02:35:12 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: What DEC item are these from? In-Reply-To: Bill Bradford "What DEC item are these from?" (Jan 16, 22:54) References: <20020117045438.GW16156@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <10201170835.ZM7190@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 16, 22:54, Bill Bradford wrote: > Anybody know what DEC item these are from? I got a bunch of them > (at the time, in a little foam "holder" in a box) a few months ago > with a big batch of PDP-11 stuff, but my dog got ahold of it and > they're now all over a section of the carpet in my garage.. > > http://www.mrbill.net/~mrbill/bulbs.jpg They look like the panel bulbs for a PDP-8, which are the same as for things like a DX11 or RK05 drives. Did the earliest Unibus machines also use bulbs or were they always LEDs? Anyway, they're worth saving. The correct bulbs are hard to get now (the types I've found available are higher current than the correct ones). Bi-pin fuses are about the same size but don't have the glass, er, bulb, on top :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From mhstein at canada.com Thu Jan 17 02:20:20 2002 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: ALL ChargeCard 286 MMU Message-ID: <01C19F05.F4E22A00@mse-d03> With all this talk about 286 PCs, anybody interested in an ALL Chargecard hardware memory manager to turn your PS/2 50, 60, or 30/286 into a 386 (sort of)? Only fits PGA, no LCC or PLCC adapters; brand new, never tested (didn't/don't have a PGA 286 board). mike From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jan 16 22:51:56 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > That I know they are 286 class, I didn't mean to imply that I thought they > were a 486. Two of the three machines have an Intel snap-in 386 installed, > so they have a subset of the 386 instruction set available, but are still > basically 286 machines. Yup. The best upgrades for these machines, though, were (IMHO) the AOX Micromaster 486. > > The fastest Intel-based Microchannel machine was the IBM PC Server > > 720. It has 6 Pentiums. The fastest Microchannel 486 was the IBM PC > > Server Server 95A with a 486DX2-66, but Pentium was already out by > > then. > > I'd like to find a 486 or pentium class microchannel machine to test > software with one of these days. I'm just not sure what I should be > looking for. There are even Pentium-II based Microchannel machines, but they have PCI host bridges, with a PCI-Microchannel Bridge sitting on the PCI bus. If you want a PS/2 Server 95A Pentium Processor Complex, I have one for sale. Peace... Sridhar From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 17 08:01:08 2002 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: trying to identify this 68K-based board... References: Message-ID: <3C46D924.212B14E3@mail.verizon.net> Tothwolf wrote: > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 1/16/02 12:29:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > vze2wsvr@verizon.net writes: > > > > > It is an ISA-16 card. It has a 68000, w/2 27128 EEPROMs, 16 1259-15 > > > RAM chips and Intel chips, 82586 and 8253-5. The rest looks to be > > > TTL, a couple of connectors and couple of crystals, 16 and 20 MHz. > > > > > > It was made by Bridge Communications, USA, in 1987. And it has a > > > D-shell 15 pin (like a Mac video -2 rows of pins) female connector on > > > the back. > > > > Could be an early AUI ethernet controller. The 82586 was intel's ethernet > > co-processor. It worked with a CPU chip. Ungerman Bass used an 80186 with the > > 82586 in their ethernet ISA cards. > > Might also be a 3270 emulator board. These often used a twinaxial passthru > T type connector with a 15 pin D-shell connector on a pigtail that > connected to the board. > > Wasn't the 3270 emulator a dual card setup? > -Toth From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Jan 17 08:04:32 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: OT: USPS irradiation of mail can damage semiconductors Message-ID: This is OT, but could be important if you use the US mail to send components (especially compact flash cards), which can be permanently damaged by the system the USPS is starting to use to guard against anthrax, etc: From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jan 17 10:40:14 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: trying to identify this 68K-based board... In-Reply-To: <3C46D924.212B14E3@mail.verizon.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, Eric Chomko wrote: > Tothwolf wrote: > > > Might also be a 3270 emulator board. These often used a twinaxial passthru > > T type connector with a 15 pin D-shell connector on a pigtail that > > connected to the board. > > Wasn't the 3270 emulator a dual card setup? Not the ones I've seen. I've seen both 8 and 16 bit 3270 emulator boards, some half length, some full length. Generally the older the board, the bigger it is. One good way to tell the difference between a 3270 and AUI ethernet connector is the hardware used for the D-Sub connector. If it has a slide lock for an AUI drop cable, it's almost certainly an ethernet board. If it has 2 posts spaced out away from the D-Sub, it likely is an AUI ethernet connector, and uses a clip with 2 screws to attach the drop cable to the board. If it has standard D-Sub hardware, it is likely a 3270 emulator board. -Toth From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jan 17 10:48:49 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: trying to identify this 68K-based board... In-Reply-To: Re: trying to identify this 68K-based board... (Eric Chomko) References: <3C46D924.212B14E3@mail.verizon.net> Message-ID: <15431.113.894311.48986@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 17, Eric Chomko wrote: > Wasn't the 3270 emulator a dual card setup? Are you thinking of the 370 emulator? I have a few 3270 boards from various manufacturers here, and they're all on single boards. I've never seen one of those neat 370 emulators but I wouldn't be surprised if they're multiple-board units. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From csmith at amdocs.com Thu Jan 17 10:22:56 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: Decwriters Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E11A@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Merle K. Peirce [mailto:at258@osfn.org] > We seem to have a surfeit of Decwriters. Would anyone be > interested in one? Interested, yes -- those are teletypes, right? ... but how big are they? I certainly can't make it to RI right now to pick one up. :) (really too bad...) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jan 17 10:31:25 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: Decwriters In-Reply-To: RE: Decwriters (Christopher Smith) References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E11A@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <15430.64605.514178.109584@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 17, Christopher Smith wrote: > > We seem to have a surfeit of Decwriters. Would anyone be > > interested in one? > > Interested, yes -- those are teletypes, right? ... but how big are they? I certainly can't make it to RI right now to pick one up. :) (really too bad...) Uhh...DECwriter != Teletype. First of all, DECwriters made by DEC, and Teletypes aren't. :) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From at258 at osfn.org Thu Jan 17 10:46:07 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: Decwriters In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E11A@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: They are 100 pounds or so. Yes they are very like teletypes. If you want, we might be able to hold one, or you could go for a IV which is about the size of a typewriter. On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Merle K. Peirce [mailto:at258@osfn.org] > > > We seem to have a surfeit of Decwriters. Would anyone be > > interested in one? > > Interested, yes -- those are teletypes, right? ... but how big are they? I certainly can't make it to RI right now to pick one up. :) (really too bad...) > > Regards, > > Chris > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Jan 17 09:54:52 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: (Fwd) [HP3000-L] HP3000 Equipment Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014674FF@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! From: Eric Dittman [mailto:dittman@dittman.net] ! ! ! > The HP 3000/922 is a PA-RISC system, running MPE/iX. It ! > isn't supported ! > by the PuffinGroup port of Linux. Just the computer is ! > about the size ! > of a 2-drawer file cabinet. ! ! Too big for me, and I'm not close, but I was told by an HP ! engineer that the PA-RISC HP3000 systems can be converted ! to the equivalent PA-RISC HP9000 by twiddling the firmware ! on the CPU card. Now why isn't there any fun medium-sized hardware like that pop up around here in CT? Does anyone know of any scrappers in this area? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Jan 17 09:11:46 2002 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: Fwd: PDP 11/03 LSI-11 and minicomp available References: <001301c19ea8$a87dde00$acabf5d1@debstoy> Message-ID: <200201170711460194.16EB4207@192.168.42.129> Hi, gang, I may not be on the list any more, but I still get the occasional offer of old hardware. I've got two this week that one or more of you may be interested in. Please note the attached message, and PLEASE RESPOND DIRECTLY TO THE ORIGINAL SENDER!!! I don't have the equipment, and I am in no position to act as a go-between. Here's the first one. *********** BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** On 16-Jan-02 at 08:12 Debra Voeller wrote: >I have a working (?) pdp 11/03, RX02-dual floppy drives, oodles of books, >installation software, original 'printsets', VT320, VT100 and LA180 >impact printer that needs a new home. >I can't get a prompt but everything powers up....could be that the monitor >is not set right. > >I tripped over your homepage and thought you might be interested. I'm in >Washington state (Pierce County). Do you know anyone interested in buying >this? *********** END FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** FWIW, her description puts her near Tacoma, WA. She did send me a .jpg of the system which I will E-mail to anyone who requests that I do so. The second item is a mid-to-late 80's vintage minicomputer in a nice three-foot high tabletop rack. It is currently at Connector World Supply just north of Seattle. It was working fine the last time it was powered on less than a year ago, and as far as I know is a freebie, available to whoever makes arrangements to pick it up first. Contact: Connie Richard, (206) 789-7525 during normal business hours. Tell her I sent you. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From oliv555 at arrl.net Thu Jan 17 09:14:05 2002 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: What DEC item are these from? References: <20020117045438.GW16156@mrbill.net> <15430.30667.414406.639849@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3C46EA3C.87570D6@arrl.net> Dave McGuire wrote: > > On January 16, Bill Bradford wrote: > > Anybody know what DEC item these are from? I got a bunch of them > > (at the time, in a little foam "holder" in a box) a few months ago > > with a big batch of PDP-11 stuff, but my dog got ahold of it and > > they're now all over a section of the carpet in my garage.. > > > > http://www.mrbill.net/~mrbill/bulbs.jpg > > > > Are they worth picking up and saving, or should I just get out the > > vaccuum? > > These are PDP8 front-panel bulbs...also used in RK05s and many other > things. Definitely save them. > Also used on PDP11/45 front panels. 15v if I recall correctly, and hard to find. -nick From oliv555 at arrl.net Thu Jan 17 09:20:16 2002 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: What DEC item are these from? References: <20020117045438.GW16156@mrbill.net> <10201170835.ZM7190@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3C46EBB0.6ED45F2E@arrl.net> Pete Turnbull wrote: > > On Jan 16, 22:54, Bill Bradford wrote: > > Anybody know what DEC item these are from? I got a bunch of them > > (at the time, in a little foam "holder" in a box) a few months ago > > with a big batch of PDP-11 stuff, but my dog got ahold of it and > > they're now all over a section of the carpet in my garage.. > > > > http://www.mrbill.net/~mrbill/bulbs.jpg > > They look like the panel bulbs for a PDP-8, which are the same as for > things like a DX11 or RK05 drives. Did the earliest Unibus machines also > use bulbs or were they always LEDs? Anyway, they're worth saving. The > correct bulbs are hard to get now (the types I've found available are > higher current than the correct ones). > We replaced all the bulbs in our RK05s early on with leds. They are still going strong after 2 decades. -nick From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Jan 17 10:47:57 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: What DEC item are these from? Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467507@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Yeah, they do _look_ like fuses from a SparcStation 1 and 1+... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Eric Dittman [mailto:dittman@dittman.net] ! Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:49 AM ! To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org ! Subject: Re: What DEC item are these from? ! ! ! > On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 11:03:09PM -0600, Eric Dittman wrote: ! > > It's hard to tell from the picture. These could be bulbs, or they ! > > could be fuses. Is the clear part plastic, and does it ! have a flat ! > > top? ! > ! > Look at the url - bulbs.jpg. 8-) ! > ! > Round top on the clear part. ! ! The fuses I'm thinking of look kind of like bulbs, and some of ! them in the picture looked like they might have flat tops, so ! I figured I'd make sure. ! -- ! Eric Dittman ! dittman@dittman.net ! Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ ! From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Jan 17 09:32:41 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: uVAX II vs. uVAX III memory Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014674FD@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> John --- I'm forwardeding this to the ClassicCmp.org mail list for you. Maybe someone there can help... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 ! -----Original Message----- ! From: John Maier ! ! ! I have in my grubby hands, a uVAX III (KA650) CPU board but ! the memory board (alas) was ! physically damaged by the original owner... ! ! Doing so research at http://vaxarchive.sevensages.org/hw/ ! they mention... ! ! uVAX II -- ! Do not try to use LMI memory modules intended for later ! MicroVAX systems (modules like the ! MS650-series, etc)! ! ! uVAX III -- ! ...or you can use LMI MicroVAX III memory modules. Do not try ! to use LMI memory modules ! intended for earlier MicroVAX systems (modules of the ! MS630-series, etc)! ! ! Why? I would love to upgrade my uVAX II/GPX from it's 0.9 ! VUP lumber to a spry 3.0 VUP.. ! :-) ! ! Additionally if I ever can find a 64Meg QBus memeory ! card... ! ! John Maier - Administrator ! Midamerica Internet Services ! 573-446-8881 ! http://www.midamerica.net ! ICQ# 38643380 ! Yahoo: toolboy1968 ! MSN: toolboy68 ! /=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=\ ! / Nothing great was ever achieved without ! / enthusiasm. --- Ralph Waldo Emerson ! /=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=\ ! From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Thu Jan 17 11:12:11 2002 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: Decwriters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As teletypes were ugly the decwriter was elegant.... Both noisy but in different ways.... George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > They are 100 pounds or so. Yes they are very like teletypes. If you > want, we might be able to hold one, or you could go for a IV which is > about the size of a typewriter. > > On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Merle K. Peirce [mailto:at258@osfn.org] > > > > > We seem to have a surfeit of Decwriters. Would anyone be > > > interested in one? > > > > Interested, yes -- those are teletypes, right? ... but how big are they? I certainly can't make it to RI right now to pick one up. :) (really too bad...) > > > > Regards, > > > > Chris > > > > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > > ' > > > > > > M. K. Peirce > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 17 12:00:27 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: OT: SCA-2 <=> SE adapter solutions?? References: Message-ID: <003c01c19f80$d82024a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've recently stumbled onto a source of new conveniently-sized SCSI drives with the SCA-2 connector. I'm considering installing them in a couple of applications in my home setup, including an SDI RAID that presently uses NARROW drives, and would need an adapter for each drive and that adapter should fit into its canister. Another application is with a WIDE (68-pin, single-ended) controller I've been using. Has any of you had experience with this sort of thing to such extent that you'd care to recommend a specific adapter for the first application, and an adapter/terminator for the second? thanks, Dick From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jan 17 12:32:19 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: OT: SCA-2 <=> SE adapter solutions?? In-Reply-To: <003c01c19f80$d82024a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: Message-ID: >should fit into its canister. Another application is with a WIDE (68-pin, >single-ended) controller I've been using. I've got a 9GB LVD drive with a SCA connector in my DEC PWS 433au by converting it down to 68-pin with one of these adapters and setting the jumpers on the drive to SE. Works great. >Has any of you had experience with this sort of thing to such extent that >you'd care to recommend a specific adapter for the first application, and an >adapter/terminator for the second? I'd say take a look at some place like http://www.scsistuff.com I'm sure there are others, but that's the only one I know off the top of my head (I've not ordered from them though). I bought my converter at a local electronics parts store and payed about twice what I should have. It's pretty basic, and you can also get ones that convert down to Narrow. I wouldn't worry to much about the manufacturer for this. I'm not sure why you're worried about a terminator, but if you can't set termination on the drive, you should be able to get a terminator that you can clip onto the ribbon cable in one of the spots where you'd normally plug a drive. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Jan 17 12:55:33 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: OT: SCA-2 <=> SE adapter solutions?? In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jan 17, 02 10:32:19 am Message-ID: <200201171855.NAA32015@wordstock.com> I am not sure if anyone has mentioned this site: http://www.eableseast.com I did a search awile ago for 80-pin adaptors, and at $15 each, they were the cheapest I could find. Bryan P.S. I only found this site awhile ago. I haven't bought anything from them yet... > > >should fit into its canister. Another application is with a WIDE (68-pin, > >single-ended) controller I've been using. > > I've got a 9GB LVD drive with a SCA connector in my DEC PWS 433au by > converting it down to 68-pin with one of these adapters and setting the > jumpers on the drive to SE. Works great. > > >Has any of you had experience with this sort of thing to such extent that > >you'd care to recommend a specific adapter for the first application, and an > >adapter/terminator for the second? > > I'd say take a look at some place like http://www.scsistuff.com I'm sure > there are others, but that's the only one I know off the top of my head > (I've not ordered from them though). I bought my converter at a local > electronics parts store and payed about twice what I should have. It's > pretty basic, and you can also get ones that convert down to Narrow. I > wouldn't worry to much about the manufacturer for this. > > I'm not sure why you're worried about a terminator, but if you can't set > termination on the drive, you should be able to get a terminator that you > can clip onto the ribbon cable in one of the spots where you'd normally > plug a drive. > From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Jan 17 13:00:58 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: 68010 & 80186 (was: Re: Mac IIci) In-Reply-To: References: <20020115234329.15604.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Message-ID: <3C472D7A.25791.2799E5B4@localhost> > > >Yes, and the 80186 -- 68010. > > >Both existed but were not popular in many systems. Both equally > > >quite rare in that regard. > > Clearly the 68010 was quickly eclipsed by the 68020 and thus showed up in > > relatively few systems. This is different, BTW, than not being popular. > > OTOH, the 80186 (including the AMD Am186 line) was a wildly successful chip > > in the embedded systems world. Vast numbers of devices based on the '186 > > are out there, often because one could use the IBM PC and follow-ons, > > hardware & software, as development platforms on the (relative) cheap. > And dont forget that the MAD 1 Computer used a '186... > (saw one at Comdex '84 and thought it looked cool) Nt to forget the SIEMENS PC-D (The best MS-DOS PC ever), the PC-X (Same machine, a simple MMU added, running Unix), and the Philips Yes (Also a DOS Machine). Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Jan 17 13:10:55 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: OT: SCA-2 <=> SE adapter solutions?? In-Reply-To: <200201171855.NAA32015@wordstock.com> from "Bryan Pope" at Jan 17, 02 01:55:33 pm Message-ID: <200201171910.OAA04507@wordstock.com> > > > I am not sure if anyone has mentioned this site: > > http://www.eableseast.com !ACK! sorry... that should be http://www.cableseast.com > > I did a search awile ago for 80-pin adaptors, and at $15 each, they were the > cheapest I could find. > > Bryan > > P.S. I only found this site awhile ago. I haven't bought anything from them > yet... > > > > > > >should fit into its canister. Another application is with a WIDE (68-pin, > > >single-ended) controller I've been using. > > > > I've got a 9GB LVD drive with a SCA connector in my DEC PWS 433au by > > converting it down to 68-pin with one of these adapters and setting the > > jumpers on the drive to SE. Works great. > > > > >Has any of you had experience with this sort of thing to such extent that > > >you'd care to recommend a specific adapter for the first application, and an > > >adapter/terminator for the second? > > > > I'd say take a look at some place like http://www.scsistuff.com I'm sure > > there are others, but that's the only one I know off the top of my head > > (I've not ordered from them though). I bought my converter at a local > > electronics parts store and payed about twice what I should have. It's > > pretty basic, and you can also get ones that convert down to Narrow. I > > wouldn't worry to much about the manufacturer for this. > > > > I'm not sure why you're worried about a terminator, but if you can't set > > termination on the drive, you should be able to get a terminator that you > > can clip onto the ribbon cable in one of the spots where you'd normally > > plug a drive. > > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 17 13:26:56 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: OT: SCA-2 <=> SE adapter solutions?? References: <200201171910.OAA04507@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <005c01c19f8c$ed846840$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> That SCSISTUFF site that was mentioned before has adapters as low as $6, and those might well fit, but terminating the upper data and parity lines requires the adapter be larger, and I'm concerned that it will not fit in the canisters. They don't list any mechanical spec's. My concern is mainly for integrating these drives into the RAID, where I have few options as to how things are hooked up. IN a PC, I just put a terminator on the upper data and parity lines and am done, but since I've not yet tried out this scheme in the case of the narrow channel in the RAID, I'm reluctant to bo out and buy a half dozen adapters only to find they don't work for me. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Pope" To: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:10 PM Subject: Re: OT: SCA-2 <=> SE adapter solutions?? > > > > > > I am not sure if anyone has mentioned this site: > > > > http://www.eableseast.com > > !ACK! sorry... that should be http://www.cableseast.com > > > > > > I did a search awile ago for 80-pin adaptors, and at $15 each, they were the > > cheapest I could find. > > > > Bryan > > > > P.S. I only found this site awhile ago. I haven't bought anything from them > > yet... > > > > > > > > > > >should fit into its canister. Another application is with a WIDE (68-pin, > > > >single-ended) controller I've been using. > > > > > > I've got a 9GB LVD drive with a SCA connector in my DEC PWS 433au by > > > converting it down to 68-pin with one of these adapters and setting the > > > jumpers on the drive to SE. Works great. > > > > > > >Has any of you had experience with this sort of thing to such extent that > > > >you'd care to recommend a specific adapter for the first application, and an > > > >adapter/terminator for the second? > > > > > > I'd say take a look at some place like http://www.scsistuff.com I'm sure > > > there are others, but that's the only one I know off the top of my head > > > (I've not ordered from them though). I bought my converter at a local > > > electronics parts store and payed about twice what I should have. It's > > > pretty basic, and you can also get ones that convert down to Narrow. I > > > wouldn't worry to much about the manufacturer for this. > > > > > > I'm not sure why you're worried about a terminator, but if you can't set > > > termination on the drive, you should be able to get a terminator that you > > > can clip onto the ribbon cable in one of the spots where you'd normally > > > plug a drive. > > > > > > > From red at bears.org Thu Jan 17 13:33:57 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > Microchannel, if not all) and the Thinkpad Power Seried 830. They made an 830? I thought they had the N40 (which I don't know anything about), the 820, 850, and 860. I've got a "Woodfield" (type 6020, pre-GA of the 850) which is so painfully slow under AIX 4.1.4 as to be unusable. It also suffers from a general lack of integration testing. I was actually so curious as to whether this was inidicative of the rest of the ThinkPad Power Series line that I spent MORE money on an 850 (type 6042). To my delight, the 850 works much better... to the point that I could actually use it to do real work. The left trackpoint button is worn out though. Before I start trying to fix it, does anybody have any experience with repairing anything like this? Should I just be looking at replacing the whole keyboard? ok r. From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jan 17 13:57:26 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > > > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > > > > Right, I didn't even think about the ISA machines. I've seen so many > > > > of the microchannel systems that I often forget about the others. > > > > As I think about it, I might actually have several model 25s > > > > instead of 50s. Guess I'll find out once I uncover them. > > > > > > It's hard to confuse them. The 25 is an all-in-one. The easier ones > > > to confuse are the 30 and the 55SX, as they came in the same case. > > > > Model 40 and below are ISA, 50 series and above are microchannel. The > > 30-286 and 55SX used the same case but the 30 (8086) had a similar but > > plastic beige/brown (as opposed to all beige steel) case. > > Well, at least I've got a general idea what I've got stored away now. I > may have to go unbury them tonight, just to satisfy my curiosity. I uncovered the stack of machines. All of them are in fair to good condition, but missing their hard drives. They seem to be intact otherwise. 2 - Model 55SX (8555) 1 - Model 30 286 (8530) 1 - Model 30 (8530) 1 - Model 50 (8550) Does anyone know why IBM choose to use the same part number for the Model 30 and Model 30 286? -Toth From dittman at dittman.net Thu Jan 17 14:01:58 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: eBay MicroVAX 2000 Message-ID: <200201172001.g0HK1wi02045@narnia.int.dittman.net> On eBay someone has a MV2000 for a BIN price of $25.00. That's very reasonable. What is not reasonable is they describe it as "RARE!" and say "This is as close as you'll get to owning a real VAX at your house!". Some eBay sellers must never run a search on current and completed items for things they are selling. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Jan 17 14:22:08 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: Mac SE Message-ID: I have a Mac SE that while attempting to remove the motherboard to replace bad memory, I smacked my hand into the CRT filament/plates socket, and cracked the CRT. (ouch!) I want to try and salvage the system, and was wondering: 1) Does anyone have a CRT for it that I could get for less than the price of another SE + shipping? or 2) Is it possible to modify it to use a standard Mac (15 pin) monitor? Thanks! -- Pat From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jan 17 14:35:27 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:43 2005 Subject: eBay MicroVAX 2000 In-Reply-To: <200201172001.g0HK1wi02045@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > On eBay someone has a MV2000 for a BIN price of $25.00. That's > very reasonable. What is not reasonable is they describe it as > "RARE!" and say "This is as close as you'll get to owning a real > VAX at your house!". > > Some eBay sellers must never run a search on current and completed > items for things they are selling. I've got one sitting in my shop right now. It needs a few boards to make it useful for me, but I'll find them eventually. Actually, I'll ask about them here again, since I know exactly what I'm looking for now. Anyone have these boards/parts laying around somewhere that are no longer needed? 2x M7609 MS630-CA (8MB) 1x M7516 DELQA w/ bulkhead 1x front panel door for BA123 -Toth From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Jan 17 14:52:06 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020117155111.00ad4240@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Tothwolf may have mentioned these words: >2 - Model 55SX (8555) >1 - Model 30 286 (8530) >1 - Model 30 (8530) >1 - Model 50 (8550) > >Does anyone know why IBM choose to use the same part number for the Model >30 and Model 30 286? Because they're both Model 30's??? ;-) Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an *older* .sig. (circa 1997!) Why does Hershey's put nutritional information on their candy bar wrappers when there's no nutritional value within? From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 17 15:08:13 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > There aren't a lot of those around either... > > I have one. Along with an N51SX, and one of my prized possessions, a > CL57SX. I want to get the Thinkpad 700 (some models were also > Microchannel, if not all) and the Thinkpad Power Seried 830. Why not the TP 860? That's the REAL Holy Grail of RS/6000s.... Doc From ernestls at attbi.com Thu Jan 17 15:08:47 2002 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: Christine Finn in Seattle Jan 17-20 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey, Doug. I am hoping to make it to this event but in the off chance that I can't attend, will she still be around this weekend? I can meet with you guys for coffee at the bakery or Pegasus, etc. on Saturday or Sunday if you're available. I know my way around the island so let me know if you'd prefer a different place. Contact me at ernestls@attbi.com. http://12.228.5.66 E. From curt at atari-history.com Thu Jan 17 14:44:08 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: SCA-2 <=> SE adapter solutions?? References: <003c01c19f80$d82024a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <000c01c19f97$b7a53460$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Rich, Does your source have a large quantity that everyone on the list who's interested can also purchase, or is this a small stash you've found for yourself??? Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Erlacher" To: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 1:00 PM Subject: OT: SCA-2 <=> SE adapter solutions?? > I've recently stumbled onto a source of new conveniently-sized SCSI drives > with the SCA-2 connector. I'm considering installing them in a couple of > applications in my home setup, including an SDI RAID that presently uses > NARROW drives, and would need an adapter for each drive and that adapter > should fit into its canister. Another application is with a WIDE (68-pin, > single-ended) controller I've been using. > > Has any of you had experience with this sort of thing to such extent that > you'd care to recommend a specific adapter for the first application, and an > adapter/terminator for the second? > > thanks, > > Dick > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 17 14:56:10 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: OT: SCA-2 <=> SE adapter solutions?? In-Reply-To: <003c01c19f80$d82024a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I've recently stumbled onto a source of new conveniently-sized SCSI drives > with the SCA-2 connector. I'm considering installing them in a couple of > applications in my home setup, including an SDI RAID that presently uses > NARROW drives, and would need an adapter for each drive and that adapter > should fit into its canister. Another application is with a WIDE (68-pin, > single-ended) controller I've been using. I've never used SCA drives on a narrow bus, so I can't speak to that t all. I have used SCA LVD drives on wide LVD chains, and finding an adapter that honors the LVD is a pain in the butt. 80-pin-to-68-pin LVD adapters run as high as $45 each. And the $45 ones don't work. The drive reports as SE. We finally found some adapters by A-Excite that work, at a price, IIRC, of $12.95 each. Maybe $19.95.... Haven't found a local dealer, so we had to order 6. They work reliably, and I can't see much, if any, difference in performance between an IBM 80Mb-LVD 68-pin drive and an IBM 80Mb-LVD SCA drive with adapter. All in all, I'm not buying any more 80-pin drives, unless I'm putting them on a hot-swap bus. They're a big pain in the butt if you move your drives around much, which I do. If you're going to install them, test them, and glue the case shut, the savings may be worth the hassle. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 17 14:58:38 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: OT: SCA-2 <=> SE adapter solutions?? In-Reply-To: <003c01c19f80$d82024a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: I meant to add that the A-Excite adapters I mentioned are easily identified. They have a 10mm x 10mm piece of Velcro on the 80-pin side. Doc From csmith at amdocs.com Thu Jan 17 14:47:12 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: eBay MicroVAX 2000 Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E127@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Dittman [mailto:dittman@dittman.net] > On eBay someone has a MV2000 for a BIN price of $25.00. That's > very reasonable. What is not reasonable is they describe it as > "RARE!" and say "This is as close as you'll get to owning a real > VAX at your house!". Well, I have a few problems with that statement, myself. The MicroVAX 2000 _is_ a real VAX. :) So are the four VAXen I have which aren't MicroVAX 2000s, and which are also not "RARE!" There are 8 VAXen (does that make a whole heard?) "at my house," two of which aren't mine. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 17 13:43:59 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: Old Cross References, etc. In-Reply-To: <3C466056.2AEED489@rain.org> from "Marvin Johnston" at Jan 16, 2 09:25:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 574 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020117/5ea85b07/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 17 14:33:08 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: What DEC item are these from? In-Reply-To: <10201170835.ZM7190@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jan 17, 2 08:35:12 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 255 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020117/fad1658e/attachment.ksh From red at bears.org Thu Jan 17 14:38:27 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: Mac SE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > I have a Mac SE that while attempting to remove the motherboard to replace > bad memory, I smacked my hand into the CRT filament/plates socket, and > cracked the CRT. (ouch!) I want to try and salvage the system, and was > wondering: I've done that very thing myself. Part of my SOP for working on a compact Mac now is to pull that PCB off the back of the CRT as the first thing I do after taking the cover off. ok r. From mythtech at Mac.com Thu Jan 17 15:03:38 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: Mac SE Message-ID: >I have a Mac SE that while attempting to remove the motherboard to replace >bad memory, I smacked my hand into the CRT filament/plates socket, and >cracked the CRT. How hard did you hit the thing?!? (let me guess, pulling the power cable off the mobo, it was stuck, and you pulled a little too hard to free it) >1) Does anyone have a CRT for it that I could get for less than the price >of another SE + shipping? Check the LEM swap list (www.lowendmac.com), you can probably find an SE for free (plus shipping). If you had two forevers to wait, someplace I have two SEs with fried motherboards, and would happily part with one... but I admit that it will be some time before I get the chance to search for them (they are in one of 3 locations, and I don't know WHICH of the SEs at those locations are the ones that are dead). >2) Is it possible to modify it to use a standard Mac (15 pin) monitor? I don't think so, but there are some 3rd party external video cards for the SE... but I suspect you will need to get it up and running before you can activate the external video card. Does it currently even power up? -chris From allain at panix.com Thu Jan 17 15:21:53 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: eBay MicroVAX 2000 References: <200201172001.g0HK1wi02045@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <008301c19f9c$fc749d60$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > "This is as close as you'll get to owning a real VAX at > your house!". Personally I have seen only one mV2000 in 10 years, outside of eBay, so I'd say he's right. John A. And I didn't buy it. Doh! From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Jan 17 15:31:38 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area Message-ID: <15f.74a5e8a.29789cba@aol.com> In a message dated 1/17/2002 3:13:58 PM Central Standard Time, doc@mdrconsult.com writes: > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > > > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > > > There aren't a lot of those around either... > > > > I have one. Along with an N51SX, and one of my prized possessions, a > > CL57SX. I want to get the Thinkpad 700 (some models were also > > Microchannel, if not all) and the Thinkpad Power Seried 830. > > Why not the TP 860? That's the REAL Holy Grail of RS/6000s.... > > Too bad they never finished the PPC version of OS/2 to run on it. 8-[ -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020117/74f19fda/attachment.html From csmith at amdocs.com Thu Jan 17 15:48:52 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: eBay MicroVAX 2000 Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E12C@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: John Allain [mailto:allain@panix.com] > Personally I have seen only one mV2000 in 10 years, > outside of eBay, so I'd say he's right. Well, I have one friend who's looking for a MicroVAX (or VAXStation) 2000, who's ahead of you in line, but I'll post the next one I find _after_ this one to the list. ;) I do know where to find one, since another guy I know has one he's not going to do anything with. It's just a matter of talking him into digging it up. Otherwise, I had all kinds of trouble finding these things until I bought my first VAXStation 2000 (eBay, believe it or not...), and then they just started popping up everywhere. Maybe you should try that? Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From rhblakeman at kih.net Thu Jan 17 16:02:15 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020117155111.00ad4240@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: The 50 and 50Z are also the same, 8550, but they've put different designations AFTER the type number, such as 8550-121 and 8550-A21, the A being for the newer 50Z. The numbers are just off the top of my head for comparison and may not be accurate per-se. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Roger Merchberger Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 2:52 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area Rumor has it that Tothwolf may have mentioned these words: >2 - Model 55SX (8555) >1 - Model 30 286 (8530) >1 - Model 30 (8530) >1 - Model 50 (8550) > >Does anyone know why IBM choose to use the same part number for the Model >30 and Model 30 286? Because they're both Model 30's??? ;-) Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an *older* .sig. (circa 1997!) Why does Hershey's put nutritional information on their candy bar wrappers when there's no nutritional value within? From rhblakeman at kih.net Thu Jan 17 16:07:25 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: <20020117052823.NSEJ8004.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: The Reply was (in most instances) a replacement. I have 4 or 5 machines with Reply motherboards(55SX right now) in them. I'm considering gutting those and selling the mainboards since I fell into a bunch of the empty boxes they came in, most with docs. The nice thing about the Reply (besides being faster w/486SLC) is the availability of both the old riser embedded ESDI controller and a motherboard embedded IDE controller. Of course if you don't have the original power adapter for the IDE part you eother have to add a cable into the power supply with a molex, or find someone to do a schematic for you and make one from scratch. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of jpero@sympatico.ca Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 6:28 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area > From: "Russ Blakeman" > To: > Subject: RE: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area > Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:03:32 -0600 > Importance: Normal > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > You'll know the 30 from the 30-286 when you see the bottom (where the 55SX > and 30-286 have their ID tags) is dark brown, the case is plastic (on the > 30) and there are 4 screws on the 30 as opposed to the 30-286 and 55SX with > 2 on a steel lid/case. 30 and 30-286 same case but made for ISA but all 25, 30 and 30-286, rare 386 based are same planar layout and mountings. 55SX bit different design due to MCA riser and rear plates but similar in general. As I write this at pcstuff where I work part-time, in fact there's a 55SX w/ reply upgrade board, I think this one is turboboard in it (486 SLC). Stuffed between card riser and the PSU w/ reply bracket for 400mb ATA HD along w/ MCA IDE original HD in that thing. UGH. That bracket looks poorly made that ATA HD sat bit higher and at an angle. That means u have to force the case on to seat right. FYI: that 55SX owner is heavy smoker. BLEECH! Cheers, Wizard From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Thu Jan 17 13:16:04 2002 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: IBM ES/9000 mainframe on ebay References: Message-ID: <000001c19fe1$2d415980$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> just thought someone in the group might be interested in this find - only 64 megs of ram :( location SF, CA http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1321081283&r=0&t=0&sh owTutorial=0&ed=1011392992&indexURL=0&rd=1 snip{ We converted off this IBM Mainframe ES/9000. You are looking at over $1,000,000 of equipment (original purchase price). System was under IBM Maintenance and was de-installed by IBM Service Techs. late 2001. This system would make a great HOT SITE BACK-UP, or break it up and use the parts. Must remove from San Francisco (Down Town business location) fast. You pay for move out of building!!! NO RESERVE MUST GO. SEE PICTURES FOR DETAILS. But includes Operator Console (Pictured), 3174 11l Controller (pictured), 3274 41D Controller (pictured), BUS and TAG Cables, 3480 A22 Cartridge Tape Unit with (4) Tape Devices (Pictured), ES9309-002/ ES/9000-211 Processor (64Meg Real) Rack (pictured), ES9394-002 Disk Unit with 9395-B13 DASD Drives (16)(pictured) NOTE: NO SOFTWARE PER IBM License Requirements. } From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jan 17 23:41:20 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: IBM ES/9000 mainframe on ebay In-Reply-To: <000001c19fe1$2d415980$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, Heinz Wolter wrote: > just thought someone in the group might be interested > in this find - only 64 megs of ram :( location SF, CA That's 64 MB of *primary* storage. There's probably in-cabinet secondary storage. And don't forget how old this system is. 8-) Peace... Sridhar > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1321081283&r=0&t=0&sh > owTutorial=0&ed=1011392992&indexURL=0&rd=1 > snip{ > We converted off this IBM Mainframe ES/9000. You are looking at over > $1,000,000 of equipment (original purchase price). System was under IBM > Maintenance and was de-installed by IBM Service Techs. late 2001. This > system would make a great HOT SITE BACK-UP, or break it up and use the > parts. Must remove from San Francisco (Down Town business location) fast. > You pay for move out of building!!! NO RESERVE MUST GO. SEE PICTURES FOR > DETAILS. But includes Operator Console (Pictured), 3174 11l Controller > (pictured), 3274 41D Controller (pictured), BUS and TAG Cables, 3480 A22 > Cartridge Tape Unit with (4) Tape Devices (Pictured), ES9309-002/ > ES/9000-211 Processor (64Meg Real) Rack (pictured), ES9394-002 Disk Unit > with 9395-B13 DASD Drives (16)(pictured) NOTE: NO SOFTWARE PER IBM License > Requirements. > } > > From rhblakeman at kih.net Fri Jan 18 00:27:53 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: IBM ES/9000 mainframe on ebay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Exactly. We used to joke on our air lanched cruise test racj that having 128k inside of the HP 1000 that it was really a metal box with 2 Commodore 64's inside. The HP and Boeing people saw no fun in our joke for some reason. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Julius Sridhar Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 11:41 PM To: Heinz Wolter Cc: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: IBM ES/9000 mainframe on ebay On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, Heinz Wolter wrote: > just thought someone in the group might be interested > in this find - only 64 megs of ram :( location SF, CA That's 64 MB of *primary* storage. There's probably in-cabinet secondary storage. And don't forget how old this system is. 8-) Peace... Sridhar > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1321081283&r=0&t=0&sh > owTutorial=0&ed=1011392992&indexURL=0&rd=1 > snip{ > We converted off this IBM Mainframe ES/9000. You are looking at over > $1,000,000 of equipment (original purchase price). System was under IBM > Maintenance and was de-installed by IBM Service Techs. late 2001. This > system would make a great HOT SITE BACK-UP, or break it up and use the > parts. Must remove from San Francisco (Down Town business location) fast. > You pay for move out of building!!! NO RESERVE MUST GO. SEE PICTURES FOR > DETAILS. But includes Operator Console (Pictured), 3174 11l Controller > (pictured), 3274 41D Controller (pictured), BUS and TAG Cables, 3480 A22 > Cartridge Tape Unit with (4) Tape Devices (Pictured), ES9309-002/ > ES/9000-211 Processor (64Meg Real) Rack (pictured), ES9394-002 Disk Unit > with 9395-B13 DASD Drives (16)(pictured) NOTE: NO SOFTWARE PER IBM License > Requirements. > } > > From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jan 18 00:30:46 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: IBM ES/9000 mainframe on ebay In-Reply-To: IBM ES/9000 mainframe on ebay (Heinz Wolter) References: <000001c19fe1$2d415980$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Message-ID: <15431.49430.474241.824640@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 17, Heinz Wolter wrote: > just thought someone in the group might be interested > in this find - only 64 megs of ram :( location SF, CA That's respectable for an ES/9000...and that's only primary storage.. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Jan 17 17:31:18 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: Fwd: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3C470A66.26960.479091CC@localhost> > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > > > > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > > > > > > Right, I didn't even think about the ISA machines. I've seen so many of > > > > > the microchannel systems that I often forget about the others. As I > > > > > think about it, I might actually have several model 25s instead of 50s. > > > > > Guess I'll find out once I uncover them. > > > > > > > > It's hard to confuse them. The 25 is an all-in-one. The easier ones to > > > > confuse are the 30 and the 55SX, as they came in the same case. > > > > > > Model 40 and below are ISA, 50 series and above are microchannel. The > > > 30-286 and 55SX used the same case but the 30 (8086) had a similar but > > > plastic beige/brown (as opposed to all beige steel) case. > > > > Well, at least I've got a general idea what I've got stored away now. I > > may have to go unbury them tonight, just to satisfy my curiosity. > > I uncovered the stack of machines. All of them are in fair to good > condition, but missing their hard drives. They seem to be intact > otherwise. > > 2 - Model 55SX (8555) > 1 - Model 30 286 (8530) > 1 - Model 30 (8530) > 1 - Model 50 (8550) > > Does anyone know why IBM choose to use the same part number for the Model > 30 and Model 30 286? > > -Toth > Do you mean the SN # ? Don't have a 30 286 to check but most IBMs had a model subset that better described it like the 8580-111 8580-Axx or in the PS/1s for example the 2133-011. Mueller has most listed in his 3rd edition but not the SN #s. Lawrence Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jan 17 18:25:12 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > > Microchannel, if not all) and the Thinkpad Power Seried 830. > > They made an 830? I thought they had the N40 (which I don't know anything > about), the 820, 850, and 860. There's a lot more than that. There's the L40SX, N51SX, CL57SX, P70, P75, 700, 820, 830, 850, and 860. > I've got a "Woodfield" (type 6020, pre-GA of the 850) which is so > painfully slow under AIX 4.1.4 as to be unusable. It also suffers from a > general lack of integration testing. Want to get rid of it? > I was actually so curious as to whether this was inidicative of the rest > of the ThinkPad Power Series line that I spent MORE money on an 850 (type > 6042). To my delight, the 850 works much better... to the point that I > could actually use it to do real work. The left trackpoint button is worn > out though. > > Before I start trying to fix it, does anybody have any experience with > repairing anything like this? Should I just be looking at replacing the > whole keyboard? It's ridiculously easy to do. Just replace the button. Peace... Sridhar From red at bears.org Thu Jan 17 18:30:33 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > There's a lot more than that. There's the L40SX, N51SX, CL57SX, P70, P75, > 700, 820, 830, 850, and 860. I was actually speaking of the AIX ThinkPads, and not specifically of anything MCA. I'm pretty sure the 850 isn't MCA anywhere. > > I've got a "Woodfield" (type 6020, pre-GA of the 850) which is so > > painfully slow under AIX 4.1.4 as to be unusable. It also suffers from a > > general lack of integration testing. > > Want to get rid of it? No, actually, I paid a lot of money for it thinking I'd get a way cool AIX laptop. What I got was a whole lot more (or less, depending on your point of view), but it was my first exposure to AIX and I learned a lot trying to make the damned thing work. Drawing an analogy to "The Velveteen Rabbit", you might say, "it's become real." (; > It's ridiculously easy to do. Just replace the button. Really? I haven't really looked that closely at it---not even to see how it comes apart. I guess I should try to stare at it for a few minutes tonight. ok r. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Jan 17 21:16:21 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: 2 IBM PS/2s, DC/MD area Message-ID: In a message dated 1/17/2002 6:38:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, lgwalker@mts.net writes: << > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > > > > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > > > > > > Right, I didn't even think about the ISA machines. I've seen so many of > > > > > the microchannel systems that I often forget about the others. As I > > > > > think about it, I might actually have several model 25s instead of 50s. > > > > > Guess I'll find out once I uncover them. > > > > > > > > It's hard to confuse them. The 25 is an all-in-one. The easier ones to > > > > confuse are the 30 and the 55SX, as they came in the same case. > > > > > > Model 40 and below are ISA, 50 series and above are microchannel. The > > > 30-286 and 55SX used the same case but the 30 (8086) had a similar but > > > plastic beige/brown (as opposed to all beige steel) case. > > > > Well, at least I've got a general idea what I've got stored away now. I > > may have to go unbury them tonight, just to satisfy my curiosity. > > I uncovered the stack of machines. All of them are in fair to good > condition, but missing their hard drives. They seem to be intact > otherwise. > > 2 - Model 55SX (8555) > 1 - Model 30 286 (8530) > 1 - Model 30 (8530) > 1 - Model 50 (8550) > > Does anyone know why IBM choose to use the same part number for the Model > 30 and Model 30 286? > > -Toth > : Do you mean the SN # ? Don't have a 30 286 to check but most :IBMs had a model subset that better described it like the 8580-111 :8580-Axx or in the PS/1s for example the 2133-011. Mueller has :most listed in his 3rd edition but not the SN #s. >> All PS/2 models start with 85 or 95 for the model number. Serial numbers starting with 23 were built in RTP, NC. numbers starting with 78 were born in Greenock, I think. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From dittman at dittman.net Thu Jan 17 17:40:02 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: eBay MicroVAX 2000 In-Reply-To: <008301c19f9c$fc749d60$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Jan 17, 2002 04:21:53 PM Message-ID: <200201172340.g0HNe2P02845@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > "This is as close as you'll get to owning a real VAX at > > your house!". > > Personally I have seen only one mV2000 in 10 years, > outside of eBay, so I'd say he's right. I've seen MV2000 around, and they pop up on eBay a lot. As to owning a real VAX at your house, there are so many cheap VAX systems that pop up on eBay all the time that that statement is truly false. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jan 17 19:13:55 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: eBay MicroVAX 2000 In-Reply-To: Re: eBay MicroVAX 2000 (Eric Dittman) References: <008301c19f9c$fc749d60$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <200201172340.g0HNe2P02845@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <15431.30419.464904.126670@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 17, Eric Dittman wrote: > I've seen MV2000 around, and they pop up on eBay a lot. As to > owning a real VAX at your house, there are so many cheap VAX > systems that pop up on eBay all the time that that statement > is truly false. I agree. I think everyone that I associate with has at least one VAX at home, except for my mom. I think I might get her one just for the hell of it. :-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From jpero at sympatico.ca Thu Jan 17 14:30:29 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: apple IIe and compact flash for data storage In-Reply-To: <15431.30419.464904.126670@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: Re: eBay MicroVAX 2000 (Eric Dittman) Message-ID: <20020118013023.WUDO22140.tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Found this on /. Cheers, Wizard From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Jan 17 19:56:05 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: apple IIe and compact flash for data storage In-Reply-To: <20020118013023.WUDO22140.tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Jan 17, 02 08:30:29 pm Message-ID: <200201180156.UAA10908@wordstock.com> Anybody read the comments to the article? It seems like most people who read /. started using computers when Win95 came out. Their comments are *so* ignorant. "Oooooh... Why would somebody want to use such a computer. It is obselete and sooo slow." "What is the point of this?" My response to this is in the words of "Red" from "That 70's Show".... "Dumb Ass" Anyways, At least there was one (1) person talking about the IDE64, hardware MP3 player and UNIX/GUI/IRC client for the C64. A Disgruntled Bryan... > > Found this on /. > > > > Cheers, > > Wizard > From donm at cts.com Thu Jan 17 22:10:23 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: apple IIe and compact flash for data storage In-Reply-To: <200201180156.UAA10908@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, Bryan Pope wrote: > > Anybody read the comments to the article? It seems like most people who read > /. started using computers when Win95 came out. Their comments are *so* > ignorant. "Oooooh... Why would somebody want to use such a computer. It is > obselete and sooo slow." "What is the point of this?" > > My response to this is in the words of "Red" from "That 70's Show".... > "Dumb Ass" Hey, don't discourage them. They are keeping prices down! - don > Anyways, > At least there was one (1) person talking about the IDE64, hardware MP3 player > and UNIX/GUI/IRC client for the C64. > > A Disgruntled Bryan... > > > > > > Found this on /. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Wizard > > > > From allain at panix.com Thu Jan 17 19:49:44 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: eBay MicroVAX 2000 References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E12C@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <014201c19fc2$679b7e40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Well, I have one friend who's looking for a MicroVAX (or > VAXStation) 2000, who's ahead of you in line, but I'll post > the next one I find _after_ this one to the list. ;) Don't worry, I got a 2000 some time ago, but thought I had to go to eBay to do it. That was before I knew about this list. Think I read every Computers...Vintage auction they had in 1999. John A. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 17 17:45:31 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: Mac SE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020117234531.75665.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com> --- Chris wrote: > >I have a Mac SE that while attempting to remove the motherboard to > replace > >bad memory, I smacked my hand into the CRT filament/plates socket, and > >cracked the CRT. > > How hard did you hit the thing?!? (let me guess, pulling the power cable > off the mobo, it was stuck, and you pulled a little too hard to free it) I personally whacked one of mine during a similar operation. I hit the side of the PCB that sits on the end of the CRT, and it torqued and broke the tip off the tube. One hiss later... I have a spare motherboard, power supply, floppy, enclosure... I've adopted the habit of removing the board from the CRT before removing anything else around it. It's not all that hard to do... I guess I've done it 0.5% of the times I've worked on a classic Mac. :-( -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From mythtech at Mac.com Thu Jan 17 21:43:24 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: Mac SE Message-ID: >It's not all that hard to do... I guess I've done it 0.5% of the times >I've worked on a classic Mac. :-( I've opened and worked on countless classic Macs, and I've NEVER broken the CRT. But from the sounds of others, I have just been really lucky. Of course, now that I have said it, I bet I bust the next one I work on. -chris From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 17 17:48:59 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: SCA-2 <=> SE adapter solutions?? References: <003c01c19f80$d82024a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <000c01c19f97$b7a53460$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <001901c19fb1$892c63a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The $6 adapters from SCA-80 to WIDE SCSI is at , IIRC. I hope they have enough so you guys don't buy 'em all. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curt Vendel" To: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 1:44 PM Subject: Re: SCA-2 <=> SE adapter solutions?? > Rich, > > Does your source have a large quantity that everyone on the list who's > interested can also purchase, or is this a small stash you've found for > yourself??? > > > Curt > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Erlacher" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 1:00 PM > Subject: OT: SCA-2 <=> SE adapter solutions?? > > > > I've recently stumbled onto a source of new conveniently-sized SCSI drives > > with the SCA-2 connector. I'm considering installing them in a couple of > > applications in my home setup, including an SDI RAID that presently uses > > NARROW drives, and would need an adapter for each drive and that adapter > > should fit into its canister. Another application is with a WIDE (68-pin, > > single-ended) controller I've been using. > > > > Has any of you had experience with this sort of thing to such extent that > > you'd care to recommend a specific adapter for the first application, and > an > > adapter/terminator for the second? > > > > thanks, > > > > Dick > > > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 17 17:57:29 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: OT: SCA-2 <=> SE adapter solutions?? References: Message-ID: <002301c19fb2$b8b8d300$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The writeup I have on the drives in question suggests that there's a jumper option to disable the differential signalling in favor of single ended signalling. It also has a jumper to limit the data width to 8-bits. I'm loath to pay the ridiculous prices some outfits charge for these adapters, but if you want to see an SCA80<=>68-pin WIDE adapter for $6, visit www.scsistuff.com. Right now, I'm looking for a multi-drive backplane, and will bend some sheetmetal to fit it so I can simply swap drives, since I like that notion. I'm presently examining the possibility of modifying the type of swappable trays I presently use on all my PC's for this purpose. Of course it will be tricky getting the adapter to fit into the tray. It seems silly, however true it may be, that a new 10GB SCA drive should cost less than an adapter to the 50/68-pin SCSI cable. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc" To: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 1:56 PM Subject: Re: OT: SCA-2 <=> SE adapter solutions?? > On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > I've recently stumbled onto a source of new conveniently-sized SCSI drives > > with the SCA-2 connector. I'm considering installing them in a couple of > > applications in my home setup, including an SDI RAID that presently uses > > NARROW drives, and would need an adapter for each drive and that adapter > > should fit into its canister. Another application is with a WIDE (68-pin, > > single-ended) controller I've been using. > > I've never used SCA drives on a narrow bus, so I can't speak to that t > all. > I have used SCA LVD drives on wide LVD chains, and finding an adapter > that honors the LVD is a pain in the butt. 80-pin-to-68-pin LVD > adapters run as high as $45 each. And the $45 ones don't work. The drive > reports as SE. > We finally found some adapters by A-Excite that work, at a price, > IIRC, of $12.95 each. Maybe $19.95.... Haven't found a local dealer, > so we had to order 6. They work reliably, and I can't see much, if any, > difference in performance between an IBM 80Mb-LVD 68-pin drive and an > IBM 80Mb-LVD SCA drive with adapter. > All in all, I'm not buying any more 80-pin drives, unless I'm putting > them on a hot-swap bus. They're a big pain in the butt if you move your > drives around much, which I do. If you're going to install them, test > them, and glue the case shut, the savings may be worth the hassle. > > Doc > > From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jan 17 18:08:53 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: trying to identify this 68K-based board... In-Reply-To: <3C46D924.212B14E3@mail.verizon.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, Eric Chomko wrote: > > Might also be a 3270 emulator board. These often used a twinaxial passthru > > T type connector with a 15 pin D-shell connector on a pigtail that > > connected to the board. This would be a 5250 emulator. > Wasn't the 3270 emulator a dual card setup? *Very* early ones were. The newest ones are quarter-size single boards. Peace... Sridhar From vaxman at earthlink.net Thu Jan 17 18:32:00 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: TU-58 dumps (was Re: VAX 11/730 Problem) In-Reply-To: <20020117043038.96852.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I've been looking for a cheap laptop with a decent display that I can put a dual serial PCMCIA card and a network interface into. /dev/tty1 - 11/750 console /dev/tty2 - TU58 emulator to 11/750 /dev/tty3 - 11/750 emulator to TU58 That way I can read/write/load TU58s, back them up to/from the network, and also have a console terminal. By running FreeBSD (or equiv), I can have PDF files etc available for reference if required. My final goal is to design and build a SMD drive emulator that plugs into the PCI bus, and serve disks to the 11/750 (and 11/780) from files on the local hard drive of a full blown PC. The power draw of a modern PC is a LOT less than a single 14" Fujitsu drive, and the disks are more reliable... Clint On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Doc wrote: > > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > > > The reason for using the other VAX is to use it to easily create the > > > filesystem on the emulated tape. If you had a way to read the tape > > > that you do have, you could just put the image on the PC, run the > > > TU-58 emulator and go. > > > > OK, the reason I haven't joined this thread before is that I'm almost > > entirely ignorant wrt console tapes. Plus, up to this point an emulated > > TU-58 wouldn't get data off the orphan tapes, so an emulator wouldn't > > help much. > > Not if you were starting from absolute scratch. One idea I had was that > if you had another VAX, one that has the binary files that the console > tape needs (the text files can be fairly easily created - they are less > than a page of text each), there might be a way to squirt the files into > the TU-58 emulator that could be pulled back out by the target 11/730. > > > My question is, why go the small-PC route instead of using something > > like the TU-58 emulator at > > http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/TU58_Emulator.htm ? > > > > It is really a question, not a suggestion. I think I'm missing a > > point somewhere.... > > The point, at least for me, is that, while the hardware emulator is > cool, the software/PC emulator is cheaper by loads - more power draw, > but it doesn't have to be on full-time. Personally, I would probably > throw a 16Mb box w/multiple serial ports and an ethernet port, all > Linux-friendly. That way, I could log in remotely from another point > on my network, and play with the files used by the emulator. DOS would > not allow that. Hey... you could even throw up Apache and put the > emulator data files in a place that could be inspected by a cgi-script > for "web-u-lation". :-) > > I think the hardware-based TU-58 emulator is really cool, but I'm more > likely to throw together something in a $10 PeeCee-oid box. > > -ethan > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! > http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ > From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jan 17 18:38:07 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: More HP1000's, and bootstrapping old systems in general. References: <3C459E39.D5F69794@tiac.net> <044d01c19ed6$36ea76d0$9101a8c0@mn> Message-ID: <3C476E6F.8E5FA51F@tiac.net> Hmmm, does anyone on interex understand this format? Bill McDermith wrote: > >From the hp users group, interex, you can get the RTE-6 OS, but only > in fst format, which is some sort of tape dump/backup format that I > cannot (yet) decode, so I'm not sure how to build a loadable system... > The manuals are also available... If anyone knows how to decode > this to build bootable media, please let me know. > I believe this is under a sort of hobbist license (i.e. noncommercial > use...) > > I would assume that all RTE systems post RTE-IV needed a 21MX > style computer (1000 series...) with the memory management option > installed (on later computers it may not have been an 'option'...) > Please correct me if I'm wrong... > > Bill McDermith > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Shannon" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 8:37 AM > Subject: Re: More HP1000's, and bootstrapping old systems in general. > > > The 9885 is listed in HP documentation as the 12732A flexible disk system, > with > > a capacity of 500 K bytes per drive, 4 drives maximum. > > > > It is supported under RTE-II, RTE-III, RTE-IV, RTE-IVB, and RTE-M. > > > > It is not supported under RTE-L or RTE-XL. > > > > > ...snip...snip...snip... > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From rschaefe at gcfn.org Thu Jan 17 20:06:41 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: Columbia 20002 Z80 SBC? Message-ID: <00c501c19fc4$c6a39420$89469280@Y5F3Q8> Anyone know about these? It's about 5.75" X 6.75", with a 100 position (50 each side) card-edge connector, and ejection levers on the front. 64K ram, 1x 2716 EPROM with a handwritten label `Satrom 0942 24 Mar 81' over the window. A little googling reveals that 20002 is the zip code for DC and not much else so far. :( Thanks! Bob From mythtech at Mac.com Thu Jan 17 22:15:34 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: Long term storage of Apple II software Message-ID: Having just looked at the Apple II Compact Flash interface link, it suddenly dawned on me... I have stacks of Apple II disks that may be (or heaven forbid already) passing their shelf life. So, I figured the best place to start my quest for the best way to long term store these disks, would be to ask the place most likely to have people that have conquered this issue. I have recently begun this project for all my old Mac disks (having just come across a batch that have aged away). The Mac is WAY easier, I am just making Disk Copy disk images, dumping those across the network, and burning to CD. What is the popular opinion on the best way to store Apple II disks long term? Is there something similar to Disk Copy to make images? If so, what is the best way to transfer those to a Mac or PC for burning to CD? Things I have that *might* make my life easier: Super Serial card for II+/IIe, A IIgs with both 5.25 and 3.5 drives, A IIe Emulator for the Mac LC and a 5.25 drive for it. As well as a few II+, IIe, IIc, and IIgs machines. Any hints (or "this is the best way" instructions) greatly appreciated. Be kind, my Apple II knowledge is rusty, it has been years since I used them. -chris From celt at chisp.net Fri Jan 18 00:20:12 2002 From: celt at chisp.net (Michael Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: Long term storage of Apple II software References: Message-ID: <3C47BE9C.2030801@chisp.net> Chris wrote: > > What is the popular opinion on the best way to store Apple II disks long > term? Is there something similar to Disk Copy to make images? If so, what > is the best way to transfer those to a Mac or PC for burning to CD? > > Things I have that *might* make my life easier: Super Serial card for > II+/IIe, A IIgs with both 5.25 and 3.5 drives, A IIe Emulator for the Mac > LC and a 5.25 drive for it. As well as a few II+, IIe, IIc, and IIgs > machines. > > Any hints (or "this is the best way" instructions) greatly appreciated. > Be kind, my Apple II knowledge is rusty, it has been years since I used > them. > > -chris > > > The most popular way to transfer files from an A2 to a PC is through ADT (Apple Disk Transfer). You can find a copy at : http://tarnover.dyndns.org/Utilities/ADT/ (a little shameless self-promotion). You'll need a null modem cable, and the Super Serial card you mentioned is useful. Complete instructions on how to set up the hardware and use the app are included in the zip file(s). This subject comes up with some regularity at comp.sys.apple2, so if you get stuck, you might ask there. Mike Tarnover - The Apple II Repository http://tarnover.org From wlewis at mailbag.com Thu Jan 17 22:15:47 2002 From: wlewis at mailbag.com (William Barnett-Lewis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: Vaxstation 4000 case parts wanted References: <200201180317.g0I3H7U70840@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <3C47A173.AFD649C4@mailbag.com> Hello all, Picked up a Vaxstation 4000/90 the other day and am looking for a couple of parts for it. Does anyone here have a spare cdrom sled and the open front panel piece for the case? I'd like to take my cdrom out of the external case and mount it internally to free up precious physical desktop space. Thanks, William -- You better watch out What you wish for; It better be worth it So much to die for. Courtney Love From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jan 17 23:30:18 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: How much? Message-ID: How much would you pay for a VAX 7000-650? Peace... Sridhar From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jan 18 00:08:21 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: from "Julius Sridhar" at Jan 18, 2002 12:30:18 AM Message-ID: <200201180608.g0I68L202673@narnia.int.dittman.net> > How much would you pay for a VAX 7000-650? How much memory, what options are installed, etc? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jan 18 01:13:21 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: trying to identify this 68K-based board... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > > > Might also be a 3270 emulator board. These often used a twinaxial passthru > > > T type connector with a 15 pin D-shell connector on a pigtail that > > > connected to the board. > > This would be a 5250 emulator. You sure about that? I think I have a brand new one made by AST still in its original box. -Toth From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jan 18 01:33:38 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: trying to identify this 68K-based board... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > Might also be a 3270 emulator board. These often used a twinaxial passthru > > > > T type connector with a 15 pin D-shell connector on a pigtail that > > > > connected to the board. > > > > This would be a 5250 emulator. > > You sure about that? I think I have a brand new one made by AST still in > its original box. I was referring to the IBM part. I don't know about AST parts. Peace... Sridhar From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Jan 18 01:09:13 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: ; from vance@ikickass.org on Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 06:30:18 CET References: Message-ID: <20020118080913.Y32007@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.01.18 06:30 Julius Sridhar wrote: > How much would you pay for a VAX 7000-650? My mother? ;-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jan 18 01:19:09 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: Re: How much? (Jochen Kunz) References: <20020118080913.Y32007@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <15431.52333.244308.212912@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 18, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > How much would you pay for a VAX 7000-650? > My mother? ;-) Is she cute? ;) (sorry, it HAD to be said!!) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jan 18 01:32:59 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:44 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: <20020118080913.Y32007@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On 2002.01.18 06:30 Julius Sridhar wrote: > > > How much would you pay for a VAX 7000-650? > My mother? ;-) Seriously. I'm thinking of selling mine. Peace... Sridhar From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jan 18 01:36:57 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: Re: How much? (Julius Sridhar) References: <20020118080913.Y32007@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <15431.53401.133975.413862@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 18, Julius Sridhar wrote: > > > How much would you pay for a VAX 7000-650? > > My mother? ;-) > > Seriously. I'm thinking of selling mine. Yes, but what would your father have to say about that? ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jan 18 01:56:24 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: <15431.53401.133975.413862@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > > How much would you pay for a VAX 7000-650? > > > My mother? ;-) > > > > Seriously. I'm thinking of selling mine. > > Yes, but what would your father have to say about that? ;) Did I ever tell you you're a bastard? 8-) Peace... Sridhar From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jan 18 02:09:25 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: Re: How much? (Julius Sridhar) References: <15431.53401.133975.413862@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15431.55349.33035.309727@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 18, Julius Sridhar wrote: > > > > > How much would you pay for a VAX 7000-650? > > > > My mother? ;-) > > > > > > Seriously. I'm thinking of selling mine. > > > > Yes, but what would your father have to say about that? ;) > > Did I ever tell you you're a bastard? 8-) Muahahahha!!! -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Jan 18 02:06:05 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: How much? References: <20020118080913.Y32007@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <15431.53401.133975.413862@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <001a01c19ff6$faae9080$902ccd18@Smith.earthlink.net> > On January 18, Julius Sridhar wrote: > > > > How much would you pay for a VAX 7000-650? > > > My mother? ;-) > > > > Seriously. I'm thinking of selling mine. > > Yes, but what would your father have to say about that? ;) > He'd say, "don't sell, upgrade." From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jan 18 01:12:30 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: <200201180608.g0I68L202673@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > How much would you pay for a VAX 7000-650? > > How much memory, what options are installed, etc? 1.5 GB RAM, CIXCD, FDDI, 1 XMI cage, 1 BI. Peace... Sridhar From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jan 18 01:43:32 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: from "Julius Sridhar" at Jan 18, 2002 02:12:30 AM Message-ID: <200201180743.g0I7hWr02937@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > How much would you pay for a VAX 7000-650? > > > > How much memory, what options are installed, etc? > > 1.5 GB RAM, CIXCD, FDDI, 1 XMI cage, 1 BI. That's about 155VUPs. The memory and CIXCD are high-cost options, even on the used market. The 7650 itself is worth about $8000 (including the XMI and BI). Add another $300 for the CIXCD (should be a -AC for the 7000 series), and $1000 for the DEMFA (if the FDDI controller is XMI). The memory is worth about $2000 (based on what a 2GB card for the 7000 series cost). That brings a total of about $11300, which all packaged should be about an even $11000. Of course, if you are getting this from a place that is dumping it and not a reseller, you might be able to get it for next to nothing, if they don't know what they have. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jan 18 02:05:47 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: <200201180743.g0I7hWr02937@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > That's about 155VUPs. The memory and CIXCD are high-cost > options, even on the used market. The 7650 itself is worth > about $8000 (including the XMI and BI). Add another $300 > for the CIXCD (should be a -AC for the 7000 series), and > $1000 for the DEMFA (if the FDDI controller is XMI). The > memory is worth about $2000 (based on what a 2GB card for > the 7000 series cost). That brings a total of about $11300, > which all packaged should be about an even $11000. > > Of course, if you are getting this from a place that is > dumping it and not a reseller, you might be able to get > it for next to nothing, if they don't know what they have. I already own the system. I'm just seeing how much I should be asking for ballpark from a reseller. FYI, I paid $1300 for the whole shabang. Peace... Sridhar From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jan 18 01:03:02 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: OT: cat Message-ID: <15431.51366.234238.965988@phaduka.neurotica.com> Somewhere recently, I'm pretty sure it was on one of these two lists, someone ribbed me for being "such a pushover" for my cat. I took this pic earlier...tell me, who could help being a pushover for this? http://ti.neurotica.com/adorable-cat.jpg -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Jan 18 03:52:49 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: <15431.52333.244308.212912@phaduka.neurotica.com>; from mcguire@neurotica.com on Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 02:19:09AM -0500 References: <20020118080913.Y32007@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <15431.52333.244308.212912@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20020118105249.A19936@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 02:19:09AM -0500, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > How much would you pay for a VAX 7000-650? > > My mother? ;-) > Is she cute? ;) I think at least my father will say yes. ;-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Jan 18 04:03:59 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: ; from vance@ikickass.org on Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 03:05:47AM -0500 References: <200201180743.g0I7hWr02937@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20020118110359.B19936@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 03:05:47AM -0500, Julius Sridhar wrote: [VAX 7650] > I already own the system. I'm just seeing how much I should be asking for > ballpark from a reseller. FYI, I paid $1300 for the whole shabang. You [censored]! You [censored] son of a [censored]! You [censored][censored]! Man you must be really happy. ;-) Or like a friend said when he got his HP9000 H70: If I hadn't normal sexual preferences, I wold run around the house mastruating. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From rumi_ml at rtfm.hu Fri Jan 18 04:41:49 2002 From: rumi_ml at rtfm.hu (Rumi Szabolcs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200201181141490966.00D94B86@mail.local> On 2002.01.18 at 03:05 Julius Sridhar wrote: >I already own the system. I'm just seeing how much I should be asking for >ballpark from a reseller. FYI, I paid $1300 for the whole shabang. If you got a 7650 for $1300 then it was a gift from the Lord. I'd never sell such a gift... Regards, Szabolcs From CAA007216 at mail.ono.es Fri Jan 18 04:24:26 2002 From: CAA007216 at mail.ono.es (Sergio Pedraja Cabo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: Bull DPX/2 Operating System. Where ? Message-ID: <2a51792a757c.2a757c2a5179@ono.com> I am thinking about get one BULL DPX/2 system (Motorola 68020 processor) but the system don't have OS installed. Could it be possible to obtain a copy ? The system has one 350 SCSI Hard Disk and one QIC tape. Thanks and Greetings Sergio From dap at fugato.com Fri Jan 18 08:01:52 2002 From: dap at fugato.com (dap@fugato.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: Any Kaypro users out there? In-Reply-To: <15431.52333.244308.212912@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <20020118080913.Y32007@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020118085856.0133b508@mail.advnet.net> Hi! If there's anyone out there still using a Kaypro IV/83, I am looking for Plu*Perfect documentation that I seem to have lost or inadvertently destroyed. If so, please reply off-list, as I am sure that most of you are not interested. Many thanks. david pickett From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jan 18 08:11:40 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: from "Julius Sridhar" at Jan 18, 2002 03:05:47 AM Message-ID: <200201181411.g0IEBe603633@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > That's about 155VUPs. The memory and CIXCD are high-cost > > options, even on the used market. The 7650 itself is worth > > about $8000 (including the XMI and BI). Add another $300 > > for the CIXCD (should be a -AC for the 7000 series), and > > $1000 for the DEMFA (if the FDDI controller is XMI). The > > memory is worth about $2000 (based on what a 2GB card for > > the 7000 series cost). That brings a total of about $11300, > > which all packaged should be about an even $11000. > > > > Of course, if you are getting this from a place that is > > dumping it and not a reseller, you might be able to get > > it for next to nothing, if they don't know what they have. > > I already own the system. I'm just seeing how much I should be asking for > ballpark from a reseller. FYI, I paid $1300 for the whole shabang. That was a good price. I don't know what a reseller will pay you for it, since obviously they make their money by paying less for the equipment than they charge. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jan 18 08:34:20 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: <200201181411.g0IEBe603633@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > That was a good price. I don't know what a reseller will pay > you for it, since obviously they make their money by paying > less for the equipment than they charge. Considering I've been seeing reseller prices hovering around $15,000. Peace... Sridhar From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Jan 18 08:46:12 2002 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: How much? References: Message-ID: <3C483534.4222377E@idirect.com> >Julius Sridhar wrote: > >On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > That was a good price. I don't know what a reseller will pay > > you for it, since obviously they make their money by paying > > less for the equipment than they charge. > Considering I've been seeing reseller prices hovering around $15,000. > Peace... Sridhar Jerome Fine replies: I have heard that these VAX systems are needed by the Pentagon due the the 9/11 problem - they lost quite a few on that day. So the resellers are trying to fill orders that are being re-sold at much higher than normal prices as compared with a year ago. In general, VMS/VAX systems used by the military can't easily be modified due to the lack of security in the code from M$ systems. So they will be stuck having to replace these systems in the short term and upgrade, when possible, to VMS/Alpha systems to retain the same features. That is not always possible when a program uses VAX hardware in a manner which is hardware specific. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Jan 18 08:53:04 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: OT: cat In-Reply-To: <15431.51366.234238.965988@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020118085304.008d26e0@ubanproductions.com> Excellent cat picture! I think that the fact that there are computers in the picture keeps it on topic. What is the VR01 plasma display hooked up to? --tom At 02:03 AM 1/18/02 -0500, you wrote: > > Somewhere recently, I'm pretty sure it was on one of these two lists, >someone ribbed me for being "such a pushover" for my cat. > > I took this pic earlier...tell me, who could help being a pushover >for this? > > http://ti.neurotica.com/adorable-cat.jpg > > -Dave > >-- >Dave McGuire >St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf > > > From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jan 18 09:42:29 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: OT: cat In-Reply-To: Re: OT: cat (Tom Uban) References: <15431.51366.234238.965988@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3.0.5.32.20020118085304.008d26e0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <15432.16997.913816.596702@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 18, Tom Uban wrote: > Excellent cat picture! I think that the fact that there are computers > in the picture keeps it on topic. What is the VR01 plasma display hooked > up to? Ahh, good catch! :-) It's attached to a VT1000 X-terminal that I've been using primarily as a dual-port serial terminal. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From msell at ontimesupport.com Fri Jan 18 09:31:11 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: OT: cat In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20020118085304.008d26e0@ubanproductions.com> References: <15431.51366.234238.965988@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020118092403.028e9e60@127.0.0.1> My animals seem to want to get into the restoration act as well..... Guarding a blower enclosure: http://www.vectorgames.org/images/vaxen/11_780/P9080001.JPG Huh? (look at bottom right of picture): http://www.vectorgames.org/images/vaxen/11_780/P8130039.JPG How did he get up there?: http://www.vectorgames.org/images/vaxen/11_780/P8190033.JPG Pets sure are fun to watch when you bring in big stuff to work on..... - Matt At 08:53 AM 1/18/2002 -0600, you wrote: >Excellent cat picture! I think that the fact that there are computers >in the picture keeps it on topic. What is the VR01 plasma display hooked >up to? > >--tom > >At 02:03 AM 1/18/02 -0500, you wrote: > > > > Somewhere recently, I'm pretty sure it was on one of these two lists, > >someone ribbed me for being "such a pushover" for my cat. > > > > I took this pic earlier...tell me, who could help being a pushover > >for this? > > > > http://ti.neurotica.com/adorable-cat.jpg > > > > -Dave > > > >-- > >Dave McGuire > >St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf > > > > > > Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri Jan 18 09:42:13 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: eBay MicroVAX 2000 Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467513@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com] ! ! ! On January 17, Eric Dittman wrote: ! > I've seen MV2000 around, and they pop up on eBay a lot. As to ! > owning a real VAX at your house, there are so many cheap VAX ! > systems that pop up on eBay all the time that that statement ! > is truly false. ! ! I agree. I think everyone that I associate with has at least one ! VAX at home, except for my mom. I think I might get her one just for ! the hell of it. :-) ! ! -Dave Yeah, if I see one for cheap enough, I'll let you know ;-) Then we can set her up with (some OS) running Xwindows... Make that when, not if. I got my first, and so far only, VAX for $25.00 from here at work. It doesn't seem hard to find a cheap one, for now at least... BTW, does anyone know of an empty VAX cabinet, something like the 11/780 VAXbar size, that's in need of dispo? In the CT (or VT, vacation house up there) area. Some other similar classic computer cabinet would suffice, but a VAX would be nice, for name recognition. I am honestly thinking on making my own VAXbar for my computer-room/lounge in my house... Maybe some other conversion. Add in a keg-erator? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jan 18 09:49:11 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: Re: How much? (Rumi Szabolcs) References: <200201181141490966.00D94B86@mail.local> Message-ID: <15432.17399.84136.294565@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 18, Rumi Szabolcs wrote: > >I already own the system. I'm just seeing how much I should be asking for > >ballpark from a reseller. FYI, I paid $1300 for the whole shabang. > > If you got a 7650 for $1300 then it was a gift from the Lord. > I'd never sell such a gift... Well actually that deal was a gift from ME, and if he sells it, I want a cut of the take! ;) It took quite a bit of negotiating to get that deal. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Jan 18 10:06:17 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: How much? Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E139@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Julius Sridhar [mailto:vance@ikickass.org] > How much would you pay for a VAX 7000-650? As much as I could afford to blow on it at the time. I'd love to have a VAX 7000. :) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jan 18 10:29:22 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E139@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > From: Julius Sridhar [mailto:vance@ikickass.org] > > > How much would you pay for a VAX 7000-650? > > As much as I could afford to blow on it at the time. I'd love to have a VAX 7000. :) Well, the question's kinda moot, since I've decided not to sell it. Peace... Sridhar From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jan 18 10:58:50 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: RE: How much? (Julius Sridhar) References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E139@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <15432.21578.183993.785396@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 18, Julius Sridhar wrote: > > > How much would you pay for a VAX 7000-650? > > > > As much as I could afford to blow on it at the time. I'd love to have a VAX 7000. :) > > Well, the question's kinda moot, since I've decided not to sell it. Excellent! Now maybe I can get an account on it! 8-) (Just pickin' on you, Sridhar!) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Jan 18 11:39:24 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > > From: Julius Sridhar [mailto:vance@ikickass.org] > > > How much would you pay for a VAX 7000-650? > > > > As much as I could afford to blow on it at the time. I'd love to > > have a VAX 7000. :) > > Well, the question's kinda moot, since I've decided not to sell it. Tsk-- Sridhar, you're such a tease -brian. From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 18 10:54:43 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: How much? References: Message-ID: <004f01c1a040$d3be4de0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If they only charge $15K for it, you'd better hang onto your wallet, because they'll probably want an extra $10K just to handle it unless they've already got a buyer lined up and willing to pay $25K. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julius Sridhar" To: "Eric Dittman" Cc: Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 7:34 AM Subject: Re: How much? > On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > That was a good price. I don't know what a reseller will pay > > you for it, since obviously they make their money by paying > > less for the equipment than they charge. > > Considering I've been seeing reseller prices hovering around $15,000. > > Peace... Sridhar > > From wjs82 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 18 09:51:20 2002 From: wjs82 at hotmail.com (William Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: Bondwell B310 For Sale Message-ID: I have a Bondwell B310 Laptop. It is in excellent condition with no visual damage to the case, LCD, or keyboard. I do not have the power supply, so I have not been able to boot it and test. My company is getting ready to move to a new building and we found the laptop in a storage closet. No one wanted it and I thought that it could go to a good home. If interested, please let me know and make an offer. Thanks, Bill Smith wjs82@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Jan 18 10:05:09 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: Long term storage of Apple II software Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E138@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris [mailto:mythtech@Mac.com] > Things I have that *might* make my life easier: Super Serial card for > II+/IIe, A IIgs with both 5.25 and 3.5 drives, A IIe Emulator > for the Mac > LC and a 5.25 drive for it. As well as a few II+, IIe, IIc, and IIgs > machines. I would go with the IIGS method, myself. Remember that the IIGS supports localtalk networking, and chances are you could get it to image a disk onto a "remote" macintosh disk somewhere, given the proper software. (Note that I don't know if such software exists...) I seem to remember there may be a "disk copy" like app for IIGS, but I couldn't tell you where I've seen it. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From mtapley at swri.edu Fri Jan 18 10:09:31 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (update) Message-ID: All, More info about the stylewriter. 1) Desoldered 4 of the 9 suspect transistors. They pass the 1-st order test Tony suggested (high resistance E to C and C to E, current flows B to E and B to C but not vice-versa). "Resistance" is not consistent if I change ranges on my VOM, (I see the same needle movement on different ranges) but is consistent among transistors and B-C to B-E. I busted two legs off while trying to pull them out, so I'm definitely in the market for at least 2 and up to 9 off 2SB1243 transistors (or equivalents). Anybody know a good source near San Antonio? 2) The markings were indeed "B1243". The only other markings are a pair of digits that look like "88" under the "43", but the first "8" has too big a top loop and too little a bottom loop, and both are slightly squared-off compared to a normal "8". 3) All the transistor Collectors go to wide traces on the ribbon cable via two pins each on the connector. 4) All the Emitters are ganged together via a wide trace on the PCB. I have not figured out where that trace ends up. Emitters also have narrow traces leading into a big array of small surface-mount components with numbers like "511" or "151" on them (not necessarily those numbers, but numbers like those). 5) The bases also have narrow traces going off into the small surface-mount array. 6) The power supply wall-wart does not have any fasteners under the label, nor any feet. Its recessed fasteners have hemispherical metal heads covered with some sort of dark anodize-like coating (it can be scratched off with a sharp tool). Next project is to pry the seam apart on the power supply, shove in a screwdriver to hold it open thereby putting some tension on the fasteners, then take a soldering iron to the fasteners to heat them up and see what gives. I'll try to do some more circuit-tracing as well, but that is looking harder. I'll also check the ribbon cable again. I put that off until I ran out of time last night, in part because I'm gonna feel really goofy if that turns out to be the problem after all. BTW, my VOM runs on a single AA 1.5V battery. Can I toast anything by trying to check resistance with it? Should I stay out of the "R x 1" range or something like that? - Mark From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Jan 18 10:18:33 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: cat Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E13A@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com] > Somewhere recently, I'm pretty sure it was on one of these > two lists, > someone ribbed me for being "such a pushover" for my cat. > I took this pic earlier...tell me, who could help being a pushover > for this? Well, she has good taste in computers. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Jan 18 11:08:41 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: OT: cat References: <15431.51366.234238.965988@phaduka.neurotica.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020118092403.028e9e60@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <3C485699.5B7CFE9E@jetnet.ab.ca> Matthew Sell wrote: > How did he get up > there?: http://www.vectorgames.org/images/vaxen/11_780/P8190033.JPG > > Pets sure are fun to watch when you bring in big stuff to work on..... Can't you tell? -- He wants you to open the door and let him out.:) -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From hamellr at heorot.1nova.com Fri Jan 18 11:41:16 2002 From: hamellr at heorot.1nova.com (Rick Hamell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: [geeks] OT: cat In-Reply-To: <15431.51366.234238.965988@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: > Somewhere recently, I'm pretty sure it was on one of these two lists, > someone ribbed me for being "such a pushover" for my cat. > > I took this pic earlier...tell me, who could help being a pushover > for this? > > http://ti.neurotica.com/adorable-cat.jpg Me... I'm allergic! :( Rick From bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com Fri Jan 18 11:39:08 2002 From: bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: More HP1000's, and bootstrapping old systems in general. References: <3C459E39.D5F69794@tiac.net> <044d01c19ed6$36ea76d0$9101a8c0@mn> <3C476E6F.8E5FA51F@tiac.net> Message-ID: <032b01c1a047$0a3c2300$9101a8c0@mn> The manuals are available from HP, and I believe that the format for these files are in the back of the backup manual... I'm not sure if the manuals are on the interex site, but if you go into the RTE section of hp support, you can download them there... Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Shannon" To: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 5:38 PM Subject: Re: More HP1000's, and bootstrapping old systems in general. > Hmmm, does anyone on interex understand this format? > > Bill McDermith wrote: > > > >From the hp users group, interex, you can get the RTE-6 OS, but only > > in fst format, which is some sort of tape dump/backup format that I > > cannot (yet) decode, so I'm not sure how to build a loadable system... > > The manuals are also available... If anyone knows how to decode ...snip...snip...snip... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jan 18 12:36:31 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: <15432.21578.183993.785396@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Jan 18, 2002 11:58:50 AM Message-ID: <200201181836.g0IIaV004617@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > > How much would you pay for a VAX 7000-650? > > > > > > As much as I could afford to blow on it at the time. I'd love to have a VAX 7000. :) > > > > Well, the question's kinda moot, since I've decided not to sell it. > > Excellent! Now maybe I can get an account on it! 8-) > > (Just pickin' on you, Sridhar!) Like you don't have your own VMS systems... :-) -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jan 18 12:39:59 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: <3C483534.4222377E@idirect.com> from "Jerome Fine" at Jan 18, 2002 09:46:12 AM Message-ID: <200201181839.g0IIdxo04648@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > >On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > That was a good price. I don't know what a reseller will pay > > > you for it, since obviously they make their money by paying > > > less for the equipment than they charge. > > Considering I've been seeing reseller prices hovering around $15,000. > > Peace... Sridhar > > Jerome Fine replies: > > I have heard that these VAX systems are needed by the Pentagon > due the the 9/11 problem - they lost quite a few on that day. So > the resellers are trying to fill orders that are being re-sold at much > higher than normal prices as compared with a year ago. I offered them a VAX 7730 and they were pretty specific they only wanted 7800 CPUs. There's only a 10VUP difference per CPU between a 7700 and 7800, too, so they must use a 7860 configuration. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jan 18 12:54:31 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (update) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Mark Tapley wrote: > 6) The power supply wall-wart does not have any fasteners under the > label, nor any feet. Its recessed fasteners have hemispherical metal > heads covered with some sort of dark anodize-like coating (it can be > scratched off with a sharp tool). Are there 3 indentations around the edges of the fasteners? If so, these could be a type of Japanese fastener often found in mid '80s to early '90s video game systems. Bits that fit those kinds of fasteners are available, at about $1.50-$2 each, and they come in 2 different sizes. -Toth From CLeyson at aol.com Fri Jan 18 13:17:02 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: Toshiba external drive question Message-ID: <191.14547f3.2979ceae@aol.com> Does anyone know how the Toshiba T3200 and T5200 external drives work ? Anyone have a circuit diagram or interface spec ? They interface to the printer port, so I guess data transfers will be 8-bit. Chris From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Jan 18 06:06:42 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: Vaxstation 4000 case parts wanted References: <200201180317.g0I3H7U70840@ns2.ezwind.net> <3C47A173.AFD649C4@mailbag.com> Message-ID: <000001c1a06d$2c7db5c0$7e469280@Y5F3Q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Barnett-Lewis" To: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 11:15 PM Subject: Vaxstation 4000 case parts wanted > Hello all, > Picked up a Vaxstation 4000/90 the other day and am looking for a couple > of parts for it. Does anyone here have a spare cdrom sled and the open > front panel piece for the case? I'd like to take my cdrom out of the > external case and mount it internally to free up precious physical > desktop space. You and me both. I think the open drive bay is scarce and much sought after. > > Thanks, > > William Bob > -- > You better watch out What you wish for; > It better be worth it So much to die for. > Courtney Love From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 18 13:38:32 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: <004f01c1a040$d3be4de0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20020118193832.84316.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com> --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > If they only charge $15K for it, you'd better hang onto your wallet, > because > they'll probably want an extra $10K just to handle it unless they've > already > got a buyer lined up and willing to pay $25K. > > Dick That's my experience... a reseller will offer you 30% of his sale price for cool stuff, 25% for not-so-cool stuff. That's how I got the MV2000 plus outboard RD54 plus terminals for a few hundred bucks 8+ years ago - I paid the end user the same they would have gotten for their system, but they didn't have to box and ship it; I drove downtown to pick the lot up. Saved them a bundle and got me some cool toys. I ended up putting Ultrix 2.0 on it, back when it was tough to get a decent UNIX at home. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 18 15:14:50 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: How much? References: <20020118193832.84316.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002301c1a065$2a9c1e20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yeah ... the only time I owned a piece of DEC gear was when I bought a VAX of some sort (780?) that was in a dual-wide ~60" high rack, but was only interested, really, in the rack hardware. It had a CPU, disk controllers, a number of I/O boards, but no disks or memory. I ended up hauling if off for $25. The seller's guys even helped me put it into the truck and tie it down. I'm quite sure that if I'd expressed any interest in the CPU and other stuff, even in the PSU (I think that's what that heavy part with all the fans was) I'd have had to pay quite a bit more. His attitude was that if I didn't take it all, he'd have to charge me more. I eventually decided I couldn't use the racks after all, but, having put them, at great pain, in the basement, I required the guy who bought the "guts" from me to take the racks with him, which didn't seem to bother him at all. Now, this was back in '84 or so, when DEC stuff was still of some interest, commercially, but I suspect that if one seems interested in the sheet metal, the electronics don't mean as much to an auction house trying to clear a building. I've bought brand new spares of Mutlibus boards normally costing $5k or so for $10 when I asked whether the cables or the manuals were available separately. Likewise, I've ended up with powered disk drive boxes with perfectly good drives on board, when all I said I was after was the attached cable. You have to guess at what the seller's attitude is, but it often works out that he'll take a mere pittance for the whole thing if you express an interest in a part that's difficult to extract. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 12:38 PM Subject: Re: How much? > > --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > > If they only charge $15K for it, you'd better hang onto your wallet, > > because > > they'll probably want an extra $10K just to handle it unless they've > > already > > got a buyer lined up and willing to pay $25K. > > > > Dick > > That's my experience... a reseller will offer you 30% of his sale > price for cool stuff, 25% for not-so-cool stuff. > > That's how I got the MV2000 plus outboard RD54 plus terminals for a few > hundred bucks 8+ years ago - I paid the end user the same they would have > gotten for their system, but they didn't have to box and ship it; I drove > downtown to pick the lot up. Saved them a bundle and got me some cool > toys. I ended up putting Ultrix 2.0 on it, back when it was tough to get > a decent UNIX at home. > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! > http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ > > From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jan 18 20:28:47 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: Re: How much? (Eric Dittman) References: <15432.21578.183993.785396@phaduka.neurotica.com> <200201181836.g0IIaV004617@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <15432.55775.153728.148831@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 18, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > > How much would you pay for a VAX 7000-650? > > > > > > > > As much as I could afford to blow on it at the time. I'd love to have a VAX 7000. :) > > > > > > Well, the question's kinda moot, since I've decided not to sell it. > > > > Excellent! Now maybe I can get an account on it! 8-) > > > > (Just pickin' on you, Sridhar!) > > Like you don't have your own VMS systems... :-) Too true...but none quite that beefy. :) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 18 20:48:30 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: from "Dave McGuire" at Jan 18, 2002 09:28:47 PM Message-ID: <200201190248.g0J2mU308781@shell1.aracnet.com> > > Like you don't have your own VMS systems... :-) > > Too true...but none quite that beefy. :) > > -Dave Get a nice semi-Modern Alpha instead, your electric bill will thank you, and you have software available that won't run on a VAX. Zane From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jan 18 20:54:49 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: Re: How much? (Zane H. Healy) References: <200201190248.g0J2mU308781@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <15432.57337.333964.619871@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 18, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > Like you don't have your own VMS systems... :-) > > > > Too true...but none quite that beefy. :) > > Get a nice semi-Modern Alpha instead, your electric bill will thank you, and > you have software available that won't run on a VAX. I've got modern Alphas. Crays too. That's not the point. :) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jan 18 21:05:37 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: <200201190248.g0J2mU308781@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200201190248.g0J2mU308781@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >Get a nice semi-Modern Alpha instead, your electric bill will thank you, and >you have software available that won't run on a VAX. Having seen Dave's stuff, I doubt he's terribly worried about the electric bill, at least in the same terms the rest of us are. Not too many people have multiple Cray's in their home... Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 18 14:39:42 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: Mac SE In-Reply-To: from "Chris" at Jan 17, 2 10:43:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 539 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020118/67fa29a4/attachment.ksh From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Jan 18 20:50:13 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: Mac SE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks to everyone who has replied, I found a replacement already. -- Pat On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > I have a Mac SE that while attempting to remove the motherboard to replace > bad memory, I smacked my hand into the CRT filament/plates socket, and > cracked the CRT. (ouch!) I want to try and salvage the system, and was > wondering: > 1) Does anyone have a CRT for it that I could get for less than the price > of another SE + shipping? > or > 2) Is it possible to modify it to use a standard Mac (15 pin) monitor? > > > Thanks! > > -- Pat > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 18 14:42:47 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: IBM ES/9000 mainframe on ebay In-Reply-To: from "Russ Blakeman" at Jan 18, 2 00:27:53 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 558 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020118/1d22dfba/attachment.ksh From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Jan 18 14:45:20 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. In-Reply-To: References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E139@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <20020119014520.MFMF22140.tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Whoo! Able to be online again in short notice because two items blew out. This stupid little SMD ceramic capacitor stabbed that transformer! Was working I turned in for the night before. When I got up, noticed DSL modem is cold and "dead". Yanked the plug out and metered it. Nada...and resistance on primary coil is open, secondary is good. Boooo! This is somewhat odd voltage (16VAC), grabbed 12AC, snipped it's original plug and took right one from my junk box and spliced it in. Huh, modem still sick? Felt heat where it shouldn't be, popped all 4 snaps and looked in, aha, shorted cap easily spotted thing, blackened on one end and fuse opened in input power section before the full wave rectifier. :-) I wondered how this SMD cap die this way, this is first time I saw insides of DSL Nortel Networks modem. :-) oh, that modem contains 68HC11 uC. PCB is decent quality but I'm puzzled at no RF shielding. (!!) The case is just grey plastic halves, guess that anybody can run computer guts screaming RF emissions without case. Not smart and guess what, the manual says place modem about foot away from monitor. No wonder, no RF tin can. Cheers, Wizard and DSL modem bought back from dead. :-D From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 18 14:59:27 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: OT: cat In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020118092403.028e9e60@127.0.0.1> from "Matthew Sell" at Jan 18, 2 09:31:11 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 547 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020118/0bcb754a/attachment.ksh From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Jan 18 19:10:53 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:45 2005 Subject: OT: cat In-Reply-To: Message-ID: See, you've figured it out. Cats keep humans around for entertainment. :) (and to properly worship & feed them) g. On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > > > My animals seem to want to get into the restoration act as well..... > > > > Put it this way... If a person came into my workshop, jumped on the bench > and scattered tools and components everywhere, he'd be evicted. Likewise > if he rubbed my legs while I was trying to put a minute screw into some > piece of machinery, or solder an SMD chip, or... > > But a cat? He just gets a bit of fuss. And work has to stop until he > decides to leave my bench again :-)... > > Or in other words, I love cats. More than classic computers, actually... > > -tony > > From donm at cts.com Fri Jan 18 19:04:34 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: OT: cat In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Gene Buckle wrote: > See, you've figured it out. Cats keep humans around for > entertainment. :) (and to properly worship & feed them) > g. Yup! The current theme in the comic strip Pickles has a pretty good slant on that. - don > On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > My animals seem to want to get into the restoration act as well..... > > > > > > > Put it this way... If a person came into my workshop, jumped on the bench > > and scattered tools and components everywhere, he'd be evicted. Likewise > > if he rubbed my legs while I was trying to put a minute screw into some > > piece of machinery, or solder an SMD chip, or... > > > > But a cat? He just gets a bit of fuss. And work has to stop until he > > decides to leave my bench again :-)... > > > > Or in other words, I love cats. More than classic computers, actually... > > > > -tony > > > > > > From rhblakeman at kih.net Fri Jan 18 16:24:51 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: [geeks] OT: cat In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As my ex-wife's british mother would say - "your pussy is being shown" I'm not allergic to cats but to the damage that most do to things in many ways, especially males. I like cats in general, when they belong to someone else. I'm getting the same attitude about babies though, after raising 4 of our own. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Rick Hamell Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 11:41 AM To: geeks@sunhelp.org Cc: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: [geeks] OT: cat > Somewhere recently, I'm pretty sure it was on one of these two lists, > someone ribbed me for being "such a pushover" for my cat. > > I took this pic earlier...tell me, who could help being a pushover > for this? > > http://ti.neurotica.com/adorable-cat.jpg Me... I'm allergic! :( Rick From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Fri Jan 18 20:40:03 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: eBay MicroVAX 2000 References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467513@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <037001c1a092$9b25ce20$0300a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Woyciesjes" To: Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 2:12 AM Subject: RE: eBay MicroVAX 2000 > BTW, does anyone know of an empty VAX cabinet, something like the > 11/780 VAXbar size, that's in need of dispo? In the CT (or VT, vacation > house up there) area. > Some other similar classic computer cabinet would suffice, but a VAX > would be nice, for name recognition. I am honestly thinking on making my own > VAXbar for my computer-room/lounge in my house... Maybe some other > conversion. Add in a keg-erator? ISTR someone did the VAXbar bit with a HSC50 Heirarchical Storage Controller. Damned if I can remember where or when though. They are a half height cabinet with a PDP-11 running CRONIC. I don't know if it would be possible with the disk controllers architecture to convert them to a more general purpose computer, (if anyone has done that, I'd be interested to know how) so perhaps that's a possibility without trashing a real Vax. Vax 8xxx systems also had a companion cabinet for a CIBCI? CIBCA? (self contained version of the CI bus controller that reduced to a couple of BI cards in later Vaxen) It was the same size as the system unit (full height) cabinet, and it was mostly empty except for the box in the middle with the electronics. Plenty of room...... I've got one here attached to an 8530 so I would imagine there are a few about on similar systems. Cheers. Geoff in Oz From donm at cts.com Fri Jan 18 18:55:44 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: Any Kaypro users out there? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20020118085856.0133b508@mail.advnet.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2002 dap@fugato.com wrote: > Hi! > > If there's anyone out there still using a Kaypro IV/83, I am looking for > Plu*Perfect documentation that I seem to have lost or inadvertently destroyed. > > If so, please reply off-list, as I am sure that most of you are not > interested. Many thanks. > > david pickett > I have a few documents on Plu*Perfect products. If you will let me know which of their products you are using, perhaps I can help. - don From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 18 15:12:45 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (update) In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Jan 18, 2 10:09:31 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3960 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020118/d573985a/attachment.ksh From rhblakeman at kih.net Fri Jan 18 16:24:48 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (update) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Or you could check a tool supplier like MCM electronics and just pop for a one-time purchase on a multi-type "security bit" set - I got a nice set in a pliable small holder last year with nearly every common security bit for under $30. I thought maybe I'd never use all of t hem but I've used all but maybe 3 of them. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tothwolf Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 12:55 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (update) On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Mark Tapley wrote: > 6) The power supply wall-wart does not have any fasteners under the > label, nor any feet. Its recessed fasteners have hemispherical metal > heads covered with some sort of dark anodize-like coating (it can be > scratched off with a sharp tool). Are there 3 indentations around the edges of the fasteners? If so, these could be a type of Japanese fastener often found in mid '80s to early '90s video game systems. Bits that fit those kinds of fasteners are available, at about $1.50-$2 each, and they come in 2 different sizes. -Toth From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Jan 18 16:39:19 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: Symbolics Lisp Machines? Message-ID: Does anyone know of decent source for Symbolics Lisp systems? -brian. From red at bears.org Fri Jan 18 16:44:07 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: Symbolics Lisp Machines? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > Does anyone know of decent source for Symbolics Lisp systems? How much you want to pay? You can buy one directly from what's left of Symbolics. Couple thou for an XL1200 and Genera 8.3. Talk to David Schmidt. I can put you in touch if you're interested. Otherwise? You get lucky. (; ok r. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Jan 18 17:21:58 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: Symbolics Lisp Machines? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > How much you want to pay? You can buy one directly from what's left of > Symbolics. Couple thou for an XL1200 and Genera 8.3. > > Talk to David Schmidt. I can put you in touch if you're interested. > > Otherwise? You get lucky. (; An XL1200 would be great, but it'd be for collector/hobbyist use. I'm not wealthy enough to justify a few grand for the sake of curiosity-- though there are plenty of times I wish I were. -brian. From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Jan 18 18:57:02 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: Symbolics Lisp Machines? References: Message-ID: <3C48C45E.32DD1055@tiac.net> Any interest in restoring an original CADR list machine? (I already gave away the only Symbolics box I had...) Brian Chase wrote: > On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > > > How much you want to pay? You can buy one directly from what's left of > > Symbolics. Couple thou for an XL1200 and Genera 8.3. > > > > Talk to David Schmidt. I can put you in touch if you're interested. > > > > Otherwise? You get lucky. (; > > An XL1200 would be great, but it'd be for collector/hobbyist use. I'm > not wealthy enough to justify a few grand for the sake of curiosity-- > though there are plenty of times I wish I were. > > -brian. From red at bears.org Fri Jan 18 19:04:13 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: Symbolics Lisp Machines? In-Reply-To: <3C48C45E.32DD1055@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > Any interest in restoring an original CADR list machine? YES. Details! ok r. From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Fri Jan 18 19:30:48 2002 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: Symbolics Lisp Machines? In-Reply-To: <3C48C45E.32DD1055@tiac.net> Message-ID: <2A8E6C94-0C7C-11D6-BE41-0030657A6370@xlisper.mv.com> Yes, you did. And to me too! Thanks again. BTW, I'm still looking for a keyboard and mouse.... David Betz dbetz@xlisper.mv.com On Friday, January 18, 2002, at 07:57 PM, Bob Shannon wrote: > Any interest in restoring an original CADR list machine? > > (I already gave away the only Symbolics box I had...) > > Brian Chase wrote: > >> On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: >> >>> How much you want to pay? You can buy one directly from what's left of >>> Symbolics. Couple thou for an XL1200 and Genera 8.3. >>> >>> Talk to David Schmidt. I can put you in touch if you're interested. >>> >>> Otherwise? You get lucky. (; >> >> An XL1200 would be great, but it'd be for collector/hobbyist use. I'm >> not wealthy enough to justify a few grand for the sake of curiosity-- >> though there are plenty of times I wish I were. >> >> -brian. > > From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Jan 18 20:04:32 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: Symbolics Lisp Machines? In-Reply-To: <3C48C45E.32DD1055@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > Any interest in restoring an original CADR list machine? Interest? Sure. Ability? Nope. I'm sure you can find someone on the list with the proper skills for a restoration project. -brian. From blstuart at bellsouth.net Fri Jan 18 19:33:48 2002 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: Symbolics Lisp Machines? In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 18 Jan 2002 19:57:02 -0500 . <3C48C45E.32DD1055@tiac.net> Message-ID: In message <3C48C45E.32DD1055@tiac.net>, Bob Shannon writes: >Any interest in restoring an original CADR list machine? > >(I already gave away the only Symbolics box I had...) If he's not, I would be! Brian L. Stuart From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 18 18:27:20 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: PDP-11 with real ADV11-C board still unhappy In-Reply-To: Tom Leffingwell "PDP-11 with real ADV11-C board still unhappy" (Jan 17, 0:36) References: Message-ID: <10201190027.ZM9157@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 17, 0:36, Tom Leffingwell wrote: > > I finally managed to obtain an ADV11-C without parting with a > large sum of money, but unfortunately, it didn't solve my problem. The > system still hangs at the same point it did when I used a DZ to "fake" the > ADV11 by setting its CSR to 770400. If I remove the ADV11, the program > runs, but it is forced into its simulate mode because the missing > hardware. I set the vector to the default on the DRV11, DRV11-B, and > ADV11-C. I didn't check the serial module though. Could this be a vector > setting problem, or do I have the wrong symptoms? Is there anything I can > learn by halting the system when its hung and looking at addresses in > memory? Probably, but I'm not sure what :-) You could try halting it and see if i always halts in the same place(s). If so, it would be worth looking to see if you can figure out what instructions it executing at that point. It might be a WAIT or a polling loop. Also look at the vectors in low memory (from locations 0 to about 20), and the vectors for the devices you have in the system. They should point to somewhere in the program. > I did try doing a "770400/" and it returned 000000, with the > module out it gives a ?, so that seems good. 770402, the data buffer > returns 007777. Sounds like you have it set up correctly, at least as far as addressing is concerned. > Does anyone know what to try next? I'm running out of ideas. > The only difference between my system and the one I'm trying to replace is > that the backplane is 4 slot instead of 9, I don't have a BDV11-A like the > original had, and I have a DSD systems generic RX02, instead of the real > DEC M8029. Also, do the limit of backplane space, my modules are in a > slightly different order. The order of the modules shouldn't matter, though it's best to have CPU-memory-serial followed by whatever device needs highest priority response. I expect the DSD RX02 controller works just like a DEC one as far as addresses and interrupts are concerned, so that's unlikely to matter. The BDV11 is another story, though. It includes a line-time clock, and your system may need that. IIRC, it's controlled by a combination of a switch on the BDV11, a bit in a register on the BDV11, and the LTC switch on the front panel. All of those have to be enabled, and the BDV11 must be present, for the clock to run. I have seen systems that boot but then hang if the software needs a clock but it's not present or is disabled. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ccraft at springsips.com Fri Jan 18 18:49:41 2002 From: ccraft at springsips.com (Chris Craft) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: Convergent Technologies "Mini-MitiFrame" availale In-Reply-To: <200201141754.g0EHstl21294@morse.Colorado.EDU> References: <200201141754.g0EHstl21294@morse.Colorado.EDU> Message-ID: <0201181749410D.04415@ccraft.springsips.com> Cool! There's actually somebody offering something close to me! :) I live in Craig, so a road-trip is definitely a possibility. I'd love to add this to my collection. Sincerely, Chris, the RetroComputing Nut ccraft at netgenius dot org On Monday 14 January 2002 10:54 am, you wrote: > Hi. I've got a Convergent Technologies 68020 (typically a MitiFrame) in > a MiniFrame (typically a 68010) case, that needs a new home. > > This is a pretty complete machine: it's got 2 MB of RAM (I think), 2 > MFM hard disks (I don't remember capacity, but I believe that one is > 147 MB and the other is smaller), and a tape drive (DC-600, I think). > It has an ethernet card, and runs CTIX (I forget the version; this is > Convergent Technologies' implmentation of System V, R2 (maybe R3) UNIX). > I have lots of documentation, as well as distribution media for this > machine. > > I am not interested in shipping this. I am located in Denver, CO, and > would be delighted if someone would tell me "I want this," and then > come pick it up. It would fit easily in a car. It booted just fine > about a week ago, but I did no extensive testing. > > PB Schechter From rdd at rddavis.org Fri Jan 18 21:29:06 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: Convergent Technologies "Mini-MitiFrame" availale In-Reply-To: <0201181749410D.04415@ccraft.springsips.com> References: <200201141754.g0EHstl21294@morse.Colorado.EDU> <0201181749410D.04415@ccraft.springsips.com> Message-ID: <20020119032905.GA24706@rhiannon.rddavis.org> On Monday 14 January 2002 10:54 am, someone wrote: > > This is a pretty complete machine: it's got 2 MB of RAM (I think), 2 > > MFM hard disks (I don't remember capacity, but I believe that one is > > 147 MB and the other is smaller), and a tape drive (DC-600, I think). > > It has an ethernet card, and runs CTIX (I forget the version; this is Let me know what version of CTIX; if mine is newer, and I can get the OS installed to clone a tape, I'll clone one for you or whomever gets this system. > > Convergent Technologies' implmentation of System V, R2 (maybe R3) UNIX). > > I have lots of documentation, as well as distribution media for this > > machine. Wow, finally someone with documentation for one of these machines! Hopefully there are some similarities between the miniframe and this system other than the chasis. I'd like to obtain a copy of the documentation pertaining to system installation so that I can include some information from it about loading the OS in the Miniframe FAQ. While I have two CTIX tapes, I've never been able to figure out how to get past booting from a tape and formatting the hard drive. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Jan 18 18:54:09 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: postscript level 2 upgrade for HP III Message-ID: <200201190054.SAA09448@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Does someone have a HP Laserjet III, and want to upgrade it to level 2 Postscript? I saw one being scrapped, and though I cant take the machine (nor would i want to) I did take out the parts that upgraded it to level 2 Postscript. A "HP Laserjet III PostScript Cartridge Plus" and a 1 Meg memory card. I see you can get bigger and better memory cards for this printer on ebay, and the printer has slots for adding 2 memory cards. If you need it, let me know. -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Jan 18 22:17:48 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: HP III PS claimed Message-ID: <200201190417.WAA10088@caesar.cs.umn.edu> The postscript level 2 and the memory card have been claimed. Apparently there are quite a few people still using HP III's out there ;) -Lawrence LeMay From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Jan 18 14:19:51 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: A-ll Super Serial Card Message-ID: <3C482F07.4985.4C07D2A7@localhost> Someone (Tothwolf ?) was looking for a SSC. There's one on E-Pay with about a day to go. No bids as yet at $5.00. #1320409375 Not my sale. Lawrence Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jan 18 22:34:46 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (update) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > Are there 3 indentations around the edges of the fasteners? If so, > > these could be a type of Japanese fastener often found in mid '80s to > > early '90s video game systems. Bits that fit those kinds of fasteners > > are available, at about $1.50-$2 each, and they come in 2 different > > sizes. > > Or you could check a tool supplier like MCM electronics and just pop for a > one-time purchase on a multi-type "security bit" set - I got a nice set in a > pliable small holder last year with nearly every common security bit for > under $30. I thought maybe I'd never use all of t hem but I've used all but > maybe 3 of them. Well, I wouldn't exactly call MCM a tool supplier... The multi-type security bit set they sell does not come with bits that fit the Japanese fasteners. MCM does sell them separately, tho. In some newer equipment that uses these fasteners, those bits are of no use, since the screws are to far down in the hole. The Nintendo Game Cube is an example of this kind of equipment. Full length Japanese screwdrivers are available that fit those things, but after import, they typically cost $20-30 (ouch) each. I was recently asked to work on equipment that had tri-wing screws holding it together. It was apparent someone had tried to use pliers to remove the screws, but was unsuccessful. I don't yet have a set of tri-wing bits, so MCM might get some business from me after all. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jan 18 22:43:37 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: A-ll Super Serial Card In-Reply-To: <3C482F07.4985.4C07D2A7@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Someone (Tothwolf ?) was looking for a SSC. There's one on E-Pay with > about a day to go. No bids as yet at $5.00. #1320409375 Nope, wasn't me. I think someone else here was looking for one tho. -Toth From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 18 23:10:26 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: HP III PS claimed In-Reply-To: <200201190417.WAA10088@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20020119051026.62639.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> --- Lawrence LeMay wrote: > The postscript level 2 and the memory card have been claimed. Apparently > there > are quite a few people still using HP III's out there ;) I've got a IIID, but it already had a 2Mb card and PS cart (and AppleTalk I/O board) when I got it for $15 (uni surplus). It needed new transfer pads and pickup rollers, but it's great now... a little slow, but the duplexer works. It's on an external HP JetDirect EX Plus ($10 at a tent sale), but I'd like an internal Ethernet board... all I have is a strange 3rd-party Novell JetLAN card. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 18 23:36:04 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: HP III PS claimed References: <20020119051026.62639.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001d01c1a0ab$30270580$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Did you ever get the JetLan board to work? I've got one, but have given up on making it work under WIndows. Oddly enough, I think it actually goes pretty automatically into the WIndows network configuration, but ... not knowing, I can't say whether it really works in that scheme. One of these days ... Presently, its hooked directly to this computer, since it's only 10 feet of cable away. What is it that you believe/know the internal ethernet board will do for you that the JetLan won't? I've never been able to find out what advantage the HP product offers. The JetLan board, BTW, isn't a Novell board, is it? Mine was givne to me by a fellow who gave up his laser printer in favor of a much quiter inkjet. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 10:10 PM Subject: Re: HP III PS claimed > > --- Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > The postscript level 2 and the memory card have been claimed. Apparently > > there > > are quite a few people still using HP III's out there ;) > > I've got a IIID, but it already had a 2Mb card and PS cart (and AppleTalk > I/O board) when I got it for $15 (uni surplus). It needed new transfer > pads and pickup rollers, but it's great now... a little slow, but the > duplexer works. It's on an external HP JetDirect EX Plus ($10 at a tent > sale), but I'd like an internal Ethernet board... all I have is a > strange 3rd-party Novell JetLAN card. > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! > http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 18 23:39:31 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: HP III PS claimed In-Reply-To: <20020119051026.62639.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > duplexer works. It's on an external HP JetDirect EX Plus ($10 at a tent > sale), but I'd like an internal Ethernet board... all I have is a > strange 3rd-party Novell JetLAN card. Hmmm. The Goodwill outlet here has several JetDirect cards, but i don't know which are what. If you know a part # (and how much it's worth), I'll see if there's a match next time I'm up there. Doc From tarsi at binhost.com Sat Jan 19 00:00:03 2002 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: Epson Equity IIe Diagnotic Disk Message-ID: <0201190000030W.00257@simon> I have a cute little Epson Equity IIe and can't find a diagnostic disk for the girl. Anyone got one out there? Thanks! Tarsi 210 -- ---------------------------------------------- Homepage: http://tarsi.binhost.com binHOST.com: http://www.binhost.com Forever Beyond: http://www.foreverbeyond.org ---------------------------------------------- From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jan 19 00:43:07 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: OS/2 V3 and Memory Message-ID: Stupid question. Is there some kind of memory limit in OS/2 Warp V3. For some reason the system I've got thinks it has 48MB, and unless I'm mistaken it has 192MB of RAM. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat Jan 19 00:54:39 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (update) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020118225347.021906f0@mail.zipcon.net> Anyone know of a source for a screwdriver that will turn the security screws in a N-64. I have one and a child was so thoughtful to try to use it as a piggy bank... i don't wanna fire it up 'till I get the pennies out of it... At 10:34 PM 1/18/02 -0600, you wrote: >On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > > Are there 3 indentations around the edges of the fasteners? If so, > > > these could be a type of Japanese fastener often found in mid '80s to > > > early '90s video game systems. Bits that fit those kinds of fasteners > > > are available, at about $1.50-$2 each, and they come in 2 different > > > sizes. > > > > Or you could check a tool supplier like MCM electronics and just pop for a > > one-time purchase on a multi-type "security bit" set - I got a nice set > in a > > pliable small holder last year with nearly every common security bit for > > under $30. I thought maybe I'd never use all of t hem but I've used all but > > maybe 3 of them. > >Well, I wouldn't exactly call MCM a tool supplier... The multi-type >security bit set they sell does not come with bits that fit the Japanese >fasteners. MCM does sell them separately, tho. In some newer equipment >that uses these fasteners, those bits are of no use, since the screws are >to far down in the hole. The Nintendo Game Cube is an example of this kind >of equipment. Full length Japanese screwdrivers are available that fit >those things, but after import, they typically cost $20-30 (ouch) each. > >I was recently asked to work on equipment that had tri-wing screws holding >it together. It was apparent someone had tried to use pliers to remove the >screws, but was unsuccessful. I don't yet have a set of tri-wing bits, so >MCM might get some business from me after all. > >-Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 19 01:50:19 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (update) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020118225347.021906f0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > At 10:34 PM 1/18/02 -0600, Tothwolf wrote: > > > Well, I wouldn't exactly call MCM a tool supplier... The multi-type > > security bit set they sell does not come with bits that fit the > > Japanese fasteners. MCM does sell them separately, tho. In some newer > > equipment that uses these fasteners, those bits are of no use, since > > the screws are to far down in the hole. The Nintendo Game Cube is an > > example of this kind of equipment. Full length Japanese screwdrivers > > are available that fit those things, but after import, they typically > > cost $20-30 (ouch) each. > > Anyone know of a source for a screwdriver that will turn the security > screws in a N-64. I have one and a child was so thoughtful to try to use > it as a piggy bank... i don't wanna fire it up 'till I get the pennies out > of it... Are the screws recessed like the ones used for the game cube? If not, MCM sells bits that will fit. I have a url somewhere of a guy who imported a number of those specialty screw drivers, but I'll have to find it. He wanted top dollar for them, I do remember that. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 19 02:03:33 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (update) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > > At 10:34 PM 1/18/02 -0600, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > > Well, I wouldn't exactly call MCM a tool supplier... The multi-type > > > security bit set they sell does not come with bits that fit the > > > Japanese fasteners. MCM does sell them separately, tho. In some newer > > > equipment that uses these fasteners, those bits are of no use, since > > > the screws are to far down in the hole. The Nintendo Game Cube is an > > > example of this kind of equipment. Full length Japanese screwdrivers > > > are available that fit those things, but after import, they typically > > > cost $20-30 (ouch) each. > > > > Anyone know of a source for a screwdriver that will turn the security > > screws in a N-64. I have one and a child was so thoughtful to try to use > > it as a piggy bank... i don't wanna fire it up 'till I get the pennies out > > of it... > > Are the screws recessed like the ones used for the game cube? If not, MCM > sells bits that will fit. I have a url somewhere of a guy who imported a > number of those specialty screw drivers, but I'll have to find it. He > wanted top dollar for them, I do remember that. Looks like he has gone up on the price, $50 for a pair. Heres the url anyway: http://www.gamesx.com/misctech/gamebit.htm Might be worth calling places like Jensen Tools and seeing if they can special order external line head screwdrivers. -Toth From paul at wccnet.org Sat Jan 19 03:00:33 2002 From: paul at wccnet.org (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: Archiving Apple II disks Message-ID: The Macintosh can archive Apple II 3.5" disk with Disk Copy, but I prefer to use an Apple II native archiving format for all my Apple II disks. I use ShrinkIt v3.4 to create both 5.25" and 3.5" Apple II compressed disk images, and transfer the files over a serial link to a PC. There they can be recorded onto an ISO 9660 CD-ROM. The files can be transferred back to an Apple II and converted to a real disk again. I have transferred over 25MB of Apple II disk images this way. On the PC the ShrinkIt files can be manipulated with Nulib and Mapper to create .DSK images to use with emulators. Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA From jolminkh at bigpond.net.au Sat Jan 19 03:05:04 2002 From: jolminkh at bigpond.net.au (Hans Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: Epson Equity IIe Diagnotic Disk References: <0201190000030W.00257@simon> Message-ID: <001001c1a0c8$666e69e0$3adc8490@nsw.bigpond.net.au> I don't know what an Equity IIe is but I have files labeled a 286 laptop ref disk and an 8088 portable setup disk that I downloaded from a local Epson BBS years ago. ----- Original Message ----- From: Tarsi To: Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 5:00 PM Subject: Epson Equity IIe Diagnotic Disk > I have a cute little Epson Equity IIe and can't find a diagnostic disk for > the girl. Anyone got one out there? > > Thanks! > > Tarsi > 210 > > -- > ---------------------------------------------- > Homepage: http://tarsi.binhost.com > binHOST.com: http://www.binhost.com > Forever Beyond: http://www.foreverbeyond.org > ---------------------------------------------- From classiccmp at knm.yi.org Sat Jan 19 03:23:57 2002 From: classiccmp at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: postscript level 2 upgrade for HP III In-Reply-To: <200201190054.SAA09448@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: Hi, On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > Does someone have a HP Laserjet III, and want to upgrade it to level 2 > Postscript? I saw one being scrapped, and though I cant take the machine > (nor would i want to) I did take out the parts that upgraded it to level > 2 Postscript. A "HP Laserjet III PostScript Cartridge Plus" and a 1 Meg > memory card. I see you can get bigger and better memory cards for this > printer on ebay, and the printer has slots for adding 2 memory cards. > > If you need it, let me know. If it's still going, I'd be very intrested :&) -- Matt --- Web Page: http://knm.org.uk/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ From foxvideo at wincom.net Sat Jan 19 05:25:27 2002 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: OT: cat (advantage over dog) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020119062141.00bc4df8@mail.wincom.net> At 05:04 PM 18/01/2002 -0800, you wrote: >On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > See, you've figured it out. Cats keep humans around for > > entertainment. :) (and to properly worship & feed them) > > > As a former St. Bernard owner, I consider the great advantage of keeping a cat, (note I didn't say "owning a cat,") is that I don't have to walk him on cold snowy nights. Cheers > Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1178.monmouth.com Sat Jan 19 06:07:00 2002 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1178.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: OS/2 V3 and Memory In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at "Jan 18, 2002 10:43:07 pm" Message-ID: <200201191207.g0JC71A28449@bg-tc-ppp1178.monmouth.com> > Stupid question. Is there some kind of memory limit in OS/2 Warp V3. For > some reason the system I've got thinks it has 48MB, and unless I'm mistaken > it has 192MB of RAM. > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > > Check the bios setting for OS/2 compatible memory size setting. Bill -- d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com From webmaster at rada.org Sat Jan 19 06:09:41 2002 From: webmaster at rada.org (webmaster@rada.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: Diablo 3200 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020119120941.006b9b80@entryphone.co.uk> I have a Diablo 3200 and just about to dump. Have spent a few hours trying to get it work. I have boot , diagnostic and some application disks I am in London England where are you Gordon From lars at nocrew.org Sat Jan 19 06:52:39 2002 From: lars at nocrew.org (Lars Brinkhoff) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: GCC for PDP-11 Message-ID: <858zauiju0.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> Hello, GCC has support for the PDP-11, but is anyone using it to (cross) compile any code? -- Lars Brinkhoff http://lars.nocrew.org/ Linux, GCC, PDP-10 Brinkhoff Consulting http://www.brinkhoff.se/ programming From rhblakeman at kih.net Sat Jan 19 07:25:44 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (update) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jensen tools will have them if MCM doesn't. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tothwolf Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 2:04 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (update) On Sat, 19 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > > At 10:34 PM 1/18/02 -0600, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > > Well, I wouldn't exactly call MCM a tool supplier... The multi-type > > > security bit set they sell does not come with bits that fit the > > > Japanese fasteners. MCM does sell them separately, tho. In some newer > > > equipment that uses these fasteners, those bits are of no use, since > > > the screws are to far down in the hole. The Nintendo Game Cube is an > > > example of this kind of equipment. Full length Japanese screwdrivers > > > are available that fit those things, but after import, they typically > > > cost $20-30 (ouch) each. > > > > Anyone know of a source for a screwdriver that will turn the security > > screws in a N-64. I have one and a child was so thoughtful to try to use > > it as a piggy bank... i don't wanna fire it up 'till I get the pennies out > > of it... > > Are the screws recessed like the ones used for the game cube? If not, MCM > sells bits that will fit. I have a url somewhere of a guy who imported a > number of those specialty screw drivers, but I'll have to find it. He > wanted top dollar for them, I do remember that. Looks like he has gone up on the price, $50 for a pair. Heres the url anyway: http://www.gamesx.com/misctech/gamebit.htm Might be worth calling places like Jensen Tools and seeing if they can special order external line head screwdrivers. -Toth From rhblakeman at kih.net Sat Jan 19 07:25:48 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: OT: cat (advantage over dog) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020119062141.00bc4df8@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: Big shovel and you don't have to walk the Bernard either :-) -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Charles E. Fox Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 5:25 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: cat (advantage over dog) At 05:04 PM 18/01/2002 -0800, you wrote: >On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > See, you've figured it out. Cats keep humans around for > > entertainment. :) (and to properly worship & feed them) > > > As a former St. Bernard owner, I consider the great advantage of keeping a cat, (note I didn't say "owning a cat,") is that I don't have to walk him on cold snowy nights. Cheers > Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Jan 19 04:09:21 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: OS/2 V3 and Memory In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200201191009.g0JA9M000929@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 18 Jan, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Stupid question. Is there some kind of memory limit in OS/2 Warp V3. For > some reason the system I've got thinks it has 48MB, and unless I'm mistaken > it has 192MB of RAM. Maybe OS/2 can't size the RAM correct. In some BIOS setups is a "more than 64MB RAM for OS/2" option. -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From rhblakeman at kih.net Sat Jan 19 07:25:41 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (update) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020118225347.021906f0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: Same set - security bit set. Some major hardware stores carry some of the more common ones in their tool sections, and many True values can order them for you and then you get them direct from the store when the order arrives. Ace may be able to do the same. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Geoff Reed Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 12:55 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (update) Anyone know of a source for a screwdriver that will turn the security screws in a N-64. I have one and a child was so thoughtful to try to use it as a piggy bank... i don't wanna fire it up 'till I get the pennies out of it... At 10:34 PM 1/18/02 -0600, you wrote: >On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > > Are there 3 indentations around the edges of the fasteners? If so, > > > these could be a type of Japanese fastener often found in mid '80s to > > > early '90s video game systems. Bits that fit those kinds of fasteners > > > are available, at about $1.50-$2 each, and they come in 2 different > > > sizes. > > > > Or you could check a tool supplier like MCM electronics and just pop for a > > one-time purchase on a multi-type "security bit" set - I got a nice set > in a > > pliable small holder last year with nearly every common security bit for > > under $30. I thought maybe I'd never use all of t hem but I've used all but > > maybe 3 of them. > >Well, I wouldn't exactly call MCM a tool supplier... The multi-type >security bit set they sell does not come with bits that fit the Japanese >fasteners. MCM does sell them separately, tho. In some newer equipment >that uses these fasteners, those bits are of no use, since the screws are >to far down in the hole. The Nintendo Game Cube is an example of this kind >of equipment. Full length Japanese screwdrivers are available that fit >those things, but after import, they typically cost $20-30 (ouch) each. > >I was recently asked to work on equipment that had tri-wing screws holding >it together. It was apparent someone had tried to use pliers to remove the >screws, but was unsuccessful. I don't yet have a set of tri-wing bits, so >MCM might get some business from me after all. > >-Toth From manney at hmcltd.net Sat Jan 12 19:25:57 2002 From: manney at hmcltd.net (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: Stan Veit's History of the PC Books - Blow Out - $4 Shipped! References: Message-ID: <000401c1a114$628fe5a0$6d39fea9@piii600> Do you have any more of these? I enjoyed the one I had, but a friend would like one. Thank you, P Manney ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 10:32 AM Subject: Stan Veit's History of the PC Books - Blow Out - $4 Shipped! > I have a number of brand new copies I'd like to move out. This is a super > deal just for classiccmp subscribers. Please e-mail me! > For more info on the book, see: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1289515294 > Best, David > > David Greelish > Classic Computing > www.classiccomputing.com > "classiccomputing" on eBay > From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 19 07:44:38 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (update) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > On Sat, 19 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > On Sat, 19 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > > > > > > > Anyone know of a source for a screwdriver that will turn the > > > > security screws in a N-64. I have one and a child was so > > > > thoughtful to try to use it as a piggy bank... i don't wanna fire > > > > it up 'till I get the pennies out of it... > > > > > > Are the screws recessed like the ones used for the game cube? If > > > not, MCM sells bits that will fit. I have a url somewhere of a guy > > > who imported a number of those specialty screw drivers, but I'll > > > have to find it. He wanted top dollar for them, I do remember that. > > > > Looks like he has gone up on the price, $50 for a pair. Heres the url > > anyway: http://www.gamesx.com/misctech/gamebit.htm > > > > Might be worth calling places like Jensen Tools and seeing if they can > > special order external line head screwdrivers. > > Jensen tools will have them if MCM doesn't. MCM sells the 2 sizes of external line head (gamebit) bits, but they don't seem to sell external line head drivers. Jensen would probably have to special order them, but they might stock those now. -Toth From rhblakeman at kih.net Sat Jan 19 09:26:05 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (update) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And of course an old bit, files and a dremel grinder you can make your own bits - had to do that to disassemble the bearings in my Ford pickup - made a spanner from an old socket wrench. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tothwolf Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 7:45 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (update) On Sat, 19 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > On Sat, 19 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > On Sat, 19 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > > > > > > > Anyone know of a source for a screwdriver that will turn the > > > > security screws in a N-64. I have one and a child was so > > > > thoughtful to try to use it as a piggy bank... i don't wanna fire > > > > it up 'till I get the pennies out of it... > > > > > > Are the screws recessed like the ones used for the game cube? If > > > not, MCM sells bits that will fit. I have a url somewhere of a guy > > > who imported a number of those specialty screw drivers, but I'll > > > have to find it. He wanted top dollar for them, I do remember that. > > > > Looks like he has gone up on the price, $50 for a pair. Heres the url > > anyway: http://www.gamesx.com/misctech/gamebit.htm > > > > Might be worth calling places like Jensen Tools and seeing if they can > > special order external line head screwdrivers. > > Jensen tools will have them if MCM doesn't. MCM sells the 2 sizes of external line head (gamebit) bits, but they don't seem to sell external line head drivers. Jensen would probably have to special order them, but they might stock those now. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 19 07:47:06 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (update) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Same set - security bit set. Some major hardware stores carry some of > the more common ones in their tool sections, and many True values can > order them for you and then you get them direct from the store when > the order arrives. Ace may be able to do the same. Only problem is that particular set does not contain any external line head security bits. They are still rather hard to find. -Toth From spedraja at ono.com Sat Jan 19 07:57:30 2002 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: GCC for PDP-11 Message-ID: <000a01c1a0f1$3e9ca3e0$0001a8c0@gw.cavorita.net> >Hello, > >GCC has support for the PDP-11, but is anyone using it to (cross) >compile any code? I know it, and I even downloaded the support package some time ago. But, in appeareance, nobody know it, or they have an wrong idea about what we speak when mention GCC for PDP-11. Just by the way... What's the status of this package (GCC support for PDP-11) actually ? What machine requirements are needed in the PDP-11 side ? It could be a good moment to do a cross development test. Greetings Sergio From lars at nocrew.org Sat Jan 19 11:09:38 2002 From: lars at nocrew.org (Lars Brinkhoff) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: GCC for PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <000a01c1a0f1$3e9ca3e0$0001a8c0@gw.cavorita.net> References: <000a01c1a0f1$3e9ca3e0$0001a8c0@gw.cavorita.net> Message-ID: <854rlii7xp.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> "SP" writes: > >GCC has support for the PDP-11, but is anyone using it to (cross) > >compile any code? > What's the status of this package (GCC support for PDP-11) actually? > What machine requirements are needed in the PDP-11 side? I'm not sure as I have not tried it myself. I think it can generate code for either Unix V7 or 2BSD. -- Lars Brinkhoff http://lars.nocrew.org/ Linux, GCC, PDP-10 Brinkhoff Consulting http://www.brinkhoff.se/ programming From rcini at optonline.net Sat Jan 19 08:22:51 2002 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: Strange Apple //c problem Message-ID: Hello, all: I recently got a //c with the 5-1/4" internal drive and was playing around with it last night. It doesn't seem to want to boot DOS 3.3 and it seems to only be able to boot ProDOS disks, which stops after the splash screen (copyright notice) with a "relocation/configuration error". DOS 3.3 won't boot at all. I've seen this error before with ProDOS but I don't remember the reason. This error occurs with both ProDOS 1.1.1 and 1.9 disks, and I tried multiple working disks. This is a strange one but since I don't have much experience with the //c I wanted to throw this problem out to the group. Any thoughts? Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Jan 19 10:30:35 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:46 2005 Subject: HP model 236 Message-ID: Last time I went to university savlage, they had a HP model 236 'computer' laying in the back corner, and I was wondering if it was worth anything to pick up. It looks like an Apple II with a pair of built-in 5-1/4" floppy drives and 'integrated' keyboard, a pair of HPIB ports on the back, and some boxish-looking 14" or so monitor. What kind of stuff is probably inside, and how old is it? (Proc, possible memory size, etc...) -- Pat From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Jan 19 11:21:17 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: HP model 236 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > Last time I went to university savlage, they had a HP model 236 'computer' > laying in the back corner, and I was wondering if it was worth anything to > pick up. It looks like an Apple II with a pair of built-in 5-1/4" floppy > drives and 'integrated' keyboard, a pair of HPIB ports on the back, and > some boxish-looking 14" or so monitor. > > What kind of stuff is probably inside, and how old is it? (Proc, possible > memory size, etc...) OK, now that I've google'd some info on it, more importantly: 1) What is it worth? and 2) Does anyone want it (preferably for a trade)? > -- Pat > From msell at ontimesupport.com Sat Jan 19 11:07:49 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: OT: cat In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020119110657.02e9ed70@127.0.0.1> I read once: "Dogs will come when called. Cats will take your number and get back to you when convenient" - Matt At 05:04 PM 1/18/2002 -0800, you wrote: >On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > See, you've figured it out. Cats keep humans around for > > entertainment. :) (and to properly worship & feed them) > > > g. >Yup! The current theme in the comic strip Pickles has a >pretty good slant on that. > - don Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From celigne at tinyworld.co.uk Sat Jan 19 11:25:58 2002 From: celigne at tinyworld.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: Terminal junkie finds Lynwood Alpha Message-ID: <3C49AC26.BAE7C246@tinyworld.co.uk> I've mentioned my obsession with terminals before and today I had a real find. I was doing my regular trawl of the skips at work and found a Lynwood Alpha, which I've not seen for nearly 15 years. I worked for a year at the UK Atomic Energy Authority at Culham Labs, Oxon, and used to use a Lynwood Alpha to connect to their Prime minis. It was only a text terminal (AFAIK), but it was most appealing to me because you could define soft characters, right from the keyboard. Lynwood Scientific Developments Ltd. used to make TEMPEST-compliant equipment for government agencies, but at the time I didn't have a clue whether these terminals were shielded and had fibre-optic comms outputs or were ordinary terminals. All I knew was that the screen was very heavy. Since then, I've never seen one or found any information about them, so I didn't even know whether the Alpha was completely Lynwood's product or a shielded version of someone else's terminal. Now I know! This terminal was used in one of our radar trials vans, presumably bolted into a big rack, because the top of the monitor case is missing and it had an extra fan bolted underneath the monitor, blowing up through the three cards sitting alongside the CRT. As best as I can tell, it dates from 1981 and is powered by a Zilog Z8001 CPU, which I've never seen before. The Comms output is either RS232C or 20mA. No sign of fibre. The keyboard is huge and heavy, with two long rows of function keys at the top. Intriguingly, the top row of keys have LEDs built in, with legends like "Format", "Italics", "Half Intensity", "Rev Video", "Blink", "Under", "Graphics" and "RAM Ch Gen". I wonder why this was? You'd expect the host to send codes to change the rendition of characters, rather than having the user swap at will! Unfortunately, it has been out in the rain for a week, so I'll have to dry it thoroughly before attempting to fire it up. There are also two NiCad cells on one of the boards and they have leaked, so a bit of cleaning is in order. It's not very interesting to look at, but I'll take some photos and stick them on the Web site it anyone would like to see it. - Paul PS. Also nosed around a colleague's bookshelf and discovered a User Manual for Data General DASHER D410 and D460 terminals, containing programming information, so I'll scan that later. From driess94 at dolfijn.nl Sat Jan 19 11:40:20 2002 From: driess94 at dolfijn.nl (Stefan Driessen) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3100/20 Message-ID: <200201191740.SAA52821@hardcore.l3.ilse.nl> HEllo, I have bought a Toshiba T3100/20 but it won't start. When I boot it up it start's with an error. Then you have to press F1 to go to the CMOS Bios or some thing. Then you have to select the Hard disk and floppy drives and stuff. Then it will say that floppy drive A isn't installed. After a wile it start and say's "Put system disk in drive" What can I do so it start's correctly?? Many thanks. Stefan Driessen Jr. ______________________________________________________________ Gratis e-mail en meer: http://www.dolfijn.nl/ ilse weet nu ook alles van muziek! http://ilsemusic.ilse.nl/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 19 12:50:27 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. In-Reply-To: <20020119014520.MFMF22140.tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Jan 18, 2 08:45:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1250 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020119/48621c89/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Sat Jan 19 13:22:53 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: OT: cat (advantage over dog) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020119062141.00bc4df8@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Jan 2002, Charles E. Fox wrote: > At 05:04 PM 18/01/2002 -0800, you wrote: > > > >On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > > > See, you've figured it out. Cats keep humans around for > > > entertainment. :) (and to properly worship & feed them) > > > > > > > As a former St. Bernard owner, I consider the great advantage of > keeping a cat, (note I didn't say "owning a cat,") is that I don't have to > walk him on cold snowy nights. Well, maybe so, but a cat sure won't carry a small keg of brandy for you! - don > Cheers > > > > Charles E. Fox Video Production > 793 Argyle Rd. > Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 > 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net > Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" > at http://chasfoxvideo.com > > > From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Jan 19 11:58:49 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. In-Reply-To: References: <20020119014520.MFMF22140.tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Jan 18, 2 08:45:20 pm Message-ID: <20020119225838.ZUVN19101.tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Ouch! What ever happened to user-replacable fuses to handle such problems? Yes *there is* SMD 500mA fuse and zener diode but that is AFTER that darned ceramic capacitor. That why wall wart died and capacitor started to cook again starting that stink when I tried to power modem through that shorted cap. > Many transformers have thermal fuses designed to open the primary circuit > under such conditions. If you can open up the PSU box, you may find a > replacable (with soldering iron and pliers) thermal fuse on top of the > transformer, or stuck under the tape covering the windings. How diffcult to find this thermal fuse? This wart is hard to get voltages w/ 16VAC. Most I see are 9, 12 and nothing of to find. I had to make do w/ 12VAC for short term. > Don't be tempted to short it out, especially not on something that runs > unattended like this modem. The next time the capacitor shorts, you might > end up with a fire... Exactly. I have not seen *ceramic* go bad on low voltage unless lightning did but this is in middle of winter in southeastern ontario, no zeus lightning till summer. :-O Only time I saw one like this was in panasonic printer and that was 12 years ago. > Some plastic cases have a conductive (Nickel-based?) sheilding coating on > the inside. The HP thermal printer that's currently taking up most of my > bench does. Of course cheaper stuff tries to get away with no shielding :-( Yes, that's right, nothing of this sort. Basically unpainted grey plastic shells. Oh, Good Thing, maker forgot to put seal sticker to bar me from cracking open that modem. >:-D > -tony Cheers, Wizard From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jan 19 20:28:43 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: about those SCA <=> "SCSI-3" adapters References: Message-ID: <001301c1a15a$2e7a9a80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It turns out htat SCSISTUFF.COM was not where I ordered those things for $6, folks, it was http://www.CableClub.com, in case anybody was wondering whether I'd hit my head or something. That's about $10 less than the comparable item from SCSISTUFF. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 7:01 PM Subject: Re: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. > > > > > > > Ouch! What ever happened to user-replacable fuses to handle such problems? > > > > Yes *there is* SMD 500mA fuse and zener diode but that is AFTER that > > darned ceramic capacitor. That why wall wart died and capacitor > > Brilliant!. This reminds me of a number of other safety features (and > also self-diagnostic features) that fail to work when a fairly common > problem occurs.... > > > > Many transformers have thermal fuses designed to open the primary circuit > > > under such conditions. If you can open up the PSU box, you may find a > > > replacable (with soldering iron and pliers) thermal fuse on top of the > > > transformer, or stuck under the tape covering the windings. > > > > How diffcult to find this thermal fuse? This wart is hard to get > > That depends on the transformer. Sometimes it's an external thermal fuse > on top of the tape over the windings (looks like a small metal cylinder, > or sometimes a ceramic block). Sometimes it's under the very top layer of > tape. Sometimes it's under the windings, but can be pulled out from one > end. Sometimes you'd have to unwind the transformer to get to it :-( > > And sometimes the primary is designed to be the thermal fuse. If it > overheats, the insulation melts, you get shorted turns, and it either > melts the wire or blows the current-operated fuse. Apparently the former > (wire that's designed to melt after the insulation has melted) actually > meets most safety approvals, and it's the intended failure mode of most > cheap wall-warts over here. Is it any wonder I can't stand the darn things? > > > voltages w/ 16VAC. Most I see are 9, 12 and nothing of to find. I > > had to make do w/ 12VAC for short term. > > I'd probably buy a transformer (15V is common over here, and would be > near enough, I think). Mount it in an earthed metal box with primary and > secondary fuses, and a thermal fuse in series with the primary. Oh, and > add decent mains connectors. It may not be as neat as the original, but > IMHO it's safer and easier to repair. That's what I normally do for > missing/defective wall warts. Or sometimes I do it even if I have the > right wall-wart, if I don't think the latter meets _my_ safety standards. > > -tony > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jan 19 21:02:19 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. References: Message-ID: <002301c1a15e$e021e500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> So, Tony, is there an orderly an reliable way to get these wall-warts open? I seem to break about half the ones I want to fix. I've seen quite a few with those fusible links in series with the windings, but the main problem, aside from getting the right replacements, is getting the wall-wart opened and resealed (often possible with MEK or such) such that it still looks presentable. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 7:01 PM Subject: Re: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. > > > > > > > Ouch! What ever happened to user-replacable fuses to handle such problems? > > > > Yes *there is* SMD 500mA fuse and zener diode but that is AFTER that > > darned ceramic capacitor. That why wall wart died and capacitor > > Brilliant!. This reminds me of a number of other safety features (and > also self-diagnostic features) that fail to work when a fairly common > problem occurs.... > > > > Many transformers have thermal fuses designed to open the primary circuit > > > under such conditions. If you can open up the PSU box, you may find a > > > replacable (with soldering iron and pliers) thermal fuse on top of the > > > transformer, or stuck under the tape covering the windings. > > > > How diffcult to find this thermal fuse? This wart is hard to get > > That depends on the transformer. Sometimes it's an external thermal fuse > on top of the tape over the windings (looks like a small metal cylinder, > or sometimes a ceramic block). Sometimes it's under the very top layer of > tape. Sometimes it's under the windings, but can be pulled out from one > end. Sometimes you'd have to unwind the transformer to get to it :-( > > And sometimes the primary is designed to be the thermal fuse. If it > overheats, the insulation melts, you get shorted turns, and it either > melts the wire or blows the current-operated fuse. Apparently the former > (wire that's designed to melt after the insulation has melted) actually > meets most safety approvals, and it's the intended failure mode of most > cheap wall-warts over here. Is it any wonder I can't stand the darn things? > > > voltages w/ 16VAC. Most I see are 9, 12 and nothing of to find. I > > had to make do w/ 12VAC for short term. > > I'd probably buy a transformer (15V is common over here, and would be > near enough, I think). Mount it in an earthed metal box with primary and > secondary fuses, and a thermal fuse in series with the primary. Oh, and > add decent mains connectors. It may not be as neat as the original, but > IMHO it's safer and easier to repair. That's what I normally do for > missing/defective wall warts. Or sometimes I do it even if I have the > right wall-wart, if I don't think the latter meets _my_ safety standards. > > -tony > > From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Jan 19 15:46:10 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. In-Reply-To: References: <20020119014520.MFMF22140.tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20020119214610.GA28159@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 06:50:27PM +0000: > Ouch! What ever happened to user-replacable fuses to handle such problems? They were apparently found to be more than blatantly incompatible with the "no user serviceable parts inside" stickers, and hence done away with. It still surprises me that all recently manufactured electronics equiment isn't sold with cases that are welded, or super-glued, closed, or that screwdrivers haven't been outlawed. > Many transformers have thermal fuses designed to open the primary circuit > under such conditions. If you can open up the PSU box, you may find a > replacable (with soldering iron and pliers) thermal fuse on top of the > transformer, or stuck under the tape covering the windings. Is that only for transformers sold in the U.K., or in the U.S. as well, and is this something fairly new? (e.g., within the past 10 years or so?) None of the transformers that I've disassembled have had these fuses in them, but I've not disassembled any made in recent years. > Some plastic cases have a conductive (Nickel-based?) sheilding coating on > the inside. The HP thermal printer that's currently taking up most of my > bench does. Of course cheaper stuff tries to get away with no shielding :-( Aluminum foil and glue to the rescue? :-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 19 16:23:08 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. In-Reply-To: <20020119214610.GA28159@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Jan 19, 2 04:46:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2268 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020119/cc7d7c20/attachment.ksh From CLeyson at aol.com Sat Jan 19 16:06:20 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. Message-ID: <14c.781abac.297b47dc@aol.com> Nowadays most small 50/60 Hz transformers have thermal fuses fitted. It isn't mandatory but it is good practice from a safety point of view. A lot of "power bricks" have these fuses fitted because it is cheaper than than a separate fuse holder. If the manufacturer fitted a fuse, you can guarantee that there is always someone who would bypass it. Chris From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 19 16:26:12 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. In-Reply-To: <14c.781abac.297b47dc@aol.com> from "CLeyson@aol.com" at Jan 19, 2 05:06:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1141 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020119/3a0bf9b6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 19 13:04:16 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: Diablo 3200 In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020119120941.006b9b80@entryphone.co.uk> from "webmaster@rada.org" at Jan 19, 2 12:09:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 995 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020119/ece9bcf9/attachment.ksh From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Jan 19 13:38:50 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: Security bits and screws In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020119133500.02457670@pc> At 10:34 PM 1/18/2002 -0600, Tothwolf wrote: >I was recently asked to work on equipment that had tri-wing screws holding >it together. It was apparent someone had tried to use pliers to remove the >screws, but was unsuccessful. I don't yet have a set of tri-wing bits, so >MCM might get some business from me after all. I've always wanted a bit set that will disassemble the McDonald's Happy Meal toys. They almost always have a screw with a triangular hole, perhaps rounded at the bottom. What are those called? Trilobe? - John From donm at cts.com Sat Jan 19 13:39:37 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3100/20 In-Reply-To: <200201191740.SAA52821@hardcore.l3.ilse.nl> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Jan 2002, Stefan Driessen wrote: > HEllo, I have bought a Toshiba T3100/20 but it won't start. > When I boot it up it start's with an error. > Then you have to press F1 to go to the CMOS Bios or some thing. > Then you have to select the Hard disk and floppy drives and stuff. > Then it will say that floppy drive A isn't installed. > After a wile it start and say's "Put system disk in drive" > What can I do so it start's correctly?? Probably replacing the CMOS battery would be a good first move. - don > Many thanks. > Stefan Driessen Jr. > > ______________________________________________________________ > Gratis e-mail en meer: http://www.dolfijn.nl/ > ilse weet nu ook alles van muziek! http://ilsemusic.ilse.nl/ > From CLeyson at aol.com Sat Jan 19 14:42:45 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3100/20 Message-ID: In a message dated 19/01/02 driess94@dolfijn.nl writes: > HEllo, I have bought a Toshiba T3100/20 but it won't start. Stefan, This may help, it applies to a Toshiba T3200SX so may be of some use. If there is a small switch located near the floppy drive, set it to 'B' or 'PRT'. This switch configures the parallel port for printer or external floppy drive. If it's set to 'A' the bios goes looking on the parallel port for the A drive. The machine should now boot from a DOS boot disk. Bios settings. If the T3100 is anything like the T3200 then it is likely that there is a default bios setting for the hard drive. Try this setting. If there isn't a default setting you will have to open the machine up and see what HDD is fitted. You'll have to do this anyway to replace the battery. Getting the case apart. On the top of the case, at the rear, there are two small covers which slide off to reveal hidden screws. Undo all of the screws on the underside, take of the rear cover and metal panel and the case should come apart. The battery is probably stuck onto the back of the floppy drive chassis with Velcro. (The T3200's only bad feature in my opinion). If you need to take the display apart, the screws are located under the rubber 'feet' located in the corners and underneath the label marked FDD, HDD etc. A pair of AAA sized Alkaline cells will do as a temporary replacement CMOS backup battery. There is enough room under the keyboard for them. Good Luck Chris From donm at cts.com Sat Jan 19 13:46:51 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: Kaypro 10 for sale (fwd) Message-ID: Please reply to the originator about these items. Thanks. - don ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 14:31:47 -0500 From: Jeff Mellor Reply-To: mellor@utk.edu To: donm@cts.com Subject: RE: Kaypro 10 for sale I have a fully functional Kaypro 10 computer (excellent outside physical condition, all original books, disks, cordura carrying case), Comrex daisy wheel printer (several wheels) also fully functional), and Tandy 102 (also fully functional, original box, books, plus several other books) with connecting cord (to input data into Kaypro) for sale at a fair price. Would you or any of your contacts be interested? Contact: Jeff Mellor 4204 Taliluna Avenue Knoxville, TN 37919-8363 (865) 522-9896 cjeffmellor@aol.com mellor@utk.edu From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 19 14:35:34 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: HP III PS claimed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020119203534.92554.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> --- Doc wrote: > On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > ... but I'd like an internal Ethernet board... > > Hmmm. The Goodwill outlet here has several JetDirect cards, but i > don't know which are what. If you know a part # (and how much it's > worth), I'll see if there's a match next time I'm up there. I don't have a part number, but I can say that what I see most commonly are for newer printers - square cards, maybe 5" on a side with a white connector on one corner. These are too new. What I need is about 3" wide, maybe 6" long, with gold-plated fingers in the middle of one short side - those will fit. Not sure what one is worth, sitting out on a table, but the local uni surplus has entire printers of the vintage for $15. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 19 14:39:08 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: HP III PS claimed In-Reply-To: <001d01c1a0ab$30270580$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20020119203908.44042.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > Did you ever get the JetLan board to work? With no PC software, I haven't even tried. > What is it that you believe/know the internal ethernet board will do for > you that the JetLan won't? I've never been able to find out what > advantage the HP product offers. Multi-protocol support. A good HP board can be talked to by Windows (LAN Damager^H^H^H^H^H^HManager protocol), UNIX and Mac. Since I have all of the above in my house, I want to point a stream of bits at the printer and have spotted paper shoot out the other end. The external box I have is nice, but it only has one port and I want to put an inkjet printer on that. I feel that since the LaserJet can take an internal card, I should use it and free the smart resource for a dumber printer. > The JetLan board, BTW, isn't a Novell board, is it? As far as I know, the JetLAN board _is_ Novell. I do not want to run a Novell server with print-spooler just to be able to print. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jan 19 15:22:55 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: HP III PS claimed References: <20020119203908.44042.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001701c1a12f$76443180$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You may be right about that, but I got the distinct impression from their web site that they were a 3rd party vendor. Now, I realize that not everyone uses WIndows, but when the JetLan board in my HP printer is connected to the 10 MBps LAN, it immediately appears on the "Network Neighborhood" window, and is apparently a valid destination. I've only wanted to access it via Netware, so I never have tried sending print jobs directly to it. It's been a while, but IIRC, it appears as a printer, too. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 1:39 PM Subject: Re: HP III PS claimed > > --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Did you ever get the JetLan board to work? > > With no PC software, I haven't even tried. > > > What is it that you believe/know the internal ethernet board will do for > > you that the JetLan won't? I've never been able to find out what > > advantage the HP product offers. > > Multi-protocol support. A good HP board can be talked to by Windows > (LAN Damager^H^H^H^H^H^HManager protocol), UNIX and Mac. Since I have > all of the above in my house, I want to point a stream of bits at the > printer and have spotted paper shoot out the other end. > > The external box I have is nice, but it only has one port and I want to > put an inkjet printer on that. I feel that since the LaserJet can take > an internal card, I should use it and free the smart resource for a dumber > printer. > > > The JetLan board, BTW, isn't a Novell board, is it? > > As far as I know, the JetLAN board _is_ Novell. I do not want to run > a Novell server with print-spooler just to be able to print. > > > -ethan > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! > http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jan 19 14:50:26 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: OT: HP Vectra VA 6/200 (PPro 200) Message-ID: OK, I now know why OS/2 Warp is only seeing 48MB. It's because the computer things it's has 16MB in each of the three banks when in reality it has 64MB per bank, for a total of 192MB (in upgrading I discovered that it didn't have the 48MB I thought was in it, it had 112MB). According to the manuals this system supports 32MB EDO SIMMs, which is what I'm using in all three banks. Any idea how to convince it that it has them instead of 8MB ones (it things it has 1 bank of ECC, and two of EDO). What can I say, I just got the system recently and it's the first PPro I've had, and the first system with EDO RAM. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Jan 19 11:58:49 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: OT: HP Vectra VA 6/200 (PPro 200) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020119225840.ZUVY19101.tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 12:50:26 -0800 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: "Zane H. Healy" > Subject: OT: HP Vectra VA 6/200 (PPro 200) > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > OK, I now know why OS/2 Warp is only seeing 48MB. It's because the > computer things it's has 16MB in each of the three banks when in reality it > has 64MB per bank, for a total of 192MB (in upgrading I discovered that it > didn't have the 48MB I thought was in it, it had 112MB). > > According to the manuals this system supports 32MB EDO SIMMs, which is what > I'm using in all three banks. Any idea how to convince it that it has them > instead of 8MB ones (it things it has 1 bank of ECC, and two of EDO). > > What can I say, I just got the system recently and it's the first PPro I've > had, and the first system with EDO RAM. > > Zane Zane, OS/2 sees ram differently. Jump into your CMOS screen and look for OS/2 greater than 64MB or like and turn that on. On decent boards bios has this option and I know for sure on Asus boards. My opinion: OS/2 Warp is where winblows should been had like this. Far simpler and sensiable design. Well, anybody have one or to download? Cheers, Wizard From rhudson at cnonline.net Sat Jan 19 16:11:05 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 Message-ID: <3C49EEF9.4010902@cnonline.net> sorry, ot.... Although, this tape drive may be older than 10 years.. :^) I am trying to make a Tandberg TDC 3800 tape drive work with windows 95 (in a 485 machine). The scsi card sees the tape drive and windows finds new hardware but has no driver. I have googled all over and can't seem to find a windows driver for this at all. :^( can anyone help? grovel grover for off topic post. From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jan 19 17:29:15 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 References: <3C49EEF9.4010902@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <001101c1a141$1c3276e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Just exactly what do you want from a "driver" for a tape drive? Generally, what's wanted from tape drives is that they function with a backup applicaiton. If you are running a form of Windows, you ABSOUTELY don't want Windows to see the tape drive as a block I/O device, because what it will want to do is P*SS on it every second or so. It also tells everybody who's interested that the drive is out there, so any viruses can quickly infect the thing. There's a program called Tapedisk that allows viruses to infect your tape, since it makes the tape look like a disk drive. Seagate's Direct Tape Access works like that, too, only better. It allows you to write and read the tape, but it doesn't recover space left by erased files. eventually you have to read, erase, and write back. If you have a backup application that knows what to do with SCSI tape drives, it should work with it just fine. Keep in mind, however, that the BACKUP that comes with Win95 doesn't recognize SCSI tape drives. The version that comes with Win98 does, however, as does the one with NT4. If you want Windows95 to use the drive for backup, it needs a 3rd part application that works with SCSI tape, and there are precious few of those. Seagate Backup Executive is one that does, sort-of, though almost no backup applications work well with Windows. Many claim to work, but later turn out to be write-only memory. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Hudson" To: "Classic Computers Mailing list" Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 3:11 PM Subject: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 > sorry, ot.... > > Although, this tape drive may be older than 10 years.. :^) > > I am trying to make a Tandberg TDC 3800 tape drive work with > windows 95 (in a 485 machine). The scsi card sees the tape > drive and windows finds new hardware but has no driver. > > I have googled all over and can't seem to find a windows > driver for this at all. :^( > > can anyone help? > > grovel grover for off topic post. > > > From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Jan 19 16:51:07 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: Symbolics Lisp Machines? References: Message-ID: <3C49F85B.9CBFECAC@tiac.net> Ok, I've got an original MIT / LMI CADR List Machine. Its complete, and was running well when taken out of service. I also have several sets of full spare parts, ranging from the original (flakey) memory boards, and several TI 'aftermarket' ECC memory boards made specially for MIT, before TI got into the Explorer series machines. There is also a Trident T300 disk drive, monitor, custom keyboard, hand-made mice (they weigh about a pound), ECL monitor, chaos net tranceivers, etc, etc. At one point, my machine crashed, and overwrote part of the disk packs boot block, and became unbootable. I am aware of one other CADR machine that had a bootable pack, and it may be available. I have all the original documentation for the machine, down to the schematics. This machine was CADR #4, from the MIT AI lab. I've owned it since it left MIT. (I used to service CADR machines at MIT, and worked for LMI) The machine is currently located in centeral MA. The T300 needs 220v. "r. 'bear' stricklin" wrote: > On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > > > Any interest in restoring an original CADR list machine? > > YES. Details! > > ok > r. From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Jan 19 16:52:36 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: Symbolics Lisp Machines? References: <2A8E6C94-0C7C-11D6-BE41-0030657A6370@xlisper.mv.com> Message-ID: <3C49F8B4.9199536@tiac.net> I thought the the people in Rhode Island were able to help you out there? I thought they needed some mice, which I may have so you can work a trade. Lemme know, you should get that box running! David Betz wrote: > Yes, you did. And to me too! Thanks again. > BTW, I'm still looking for a keyboard and mouse.... > > David Betz > dbetz@xlisper.mv.com > > On Friday, January 18, 2002, at 07:57 PM, Bob Shannon wrote: > > > Any interest in restoring an original CADR list machine? > > > > (I already gave away the only Symbolics box I had...) > > > > Brian Chase wrote: > > > >> On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > >> > >>> How much you want to pay? You can buy one directly from what's left of > >>> Symbolics. Couple thou for an XL1200 and Genera 8.3. > >>> > >>> Talk to David Schmidt. I can put you in touch if you're interested. > >>> > >>> Otherwise? You get lucky. (; > >> > >> An XL1200 would be great, but it'd be for collector/hobbyist use. I'm > >> not wealthy enough to justify a few grand for the sake of curiosity-- > >> though there are plenty of times I wish I were. > >> > >> -brian. > > > > From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Sat Jan 19 19:19:21 2002 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: Symbolics Lisp Machines? In-Reply-To: <3C49F8B4.9199536@tiac.net> Message-ID: I was never able to get the people from the Retro-Computing Society of RI to reply to email. I may just buy the keyboard and mouse from Symbolics now that my company is paying me again. On Saturday, January 19, 2002, at 05:52 PM, Bob Shannon wrote: > I thought the the people in Rhode Island were able to help you out > there? > > I thought they needed some mice, which I may have so you can work a > trade. > > Lemme know, you should get that box running! > > David Betz wrote: > >> Yes, you did. And to me too! Thanks again. >> BTW, I'm still looking for a keyboard and mouse.... >> >> David Betz >> dbetz@xlisper.mv.com >> >> On Friday, January 18, 2002, at 07:57 PM, Bob Shannon wrote: >> >>> Any interest in restoring an original CADR list machine? >>> >>> (I already gave away the only Symbolics box I had...) >>> >>> Brian Chase wrote: >>> >>>> On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: >>>> >>>>> How much you want to pay? You can buy one directly from what's left >>>>> of >>>>> Symbolics. Couple thou for an XL1200 and Genera 8.3. >>>>> >>>>> Talk to David Schmidt. I can put you in touch if you're interested. >>>>> >>>>> Otherwise? You get lucky. (; >>>> >>>> An XL1200 would be great, but it'd be for collector/hobbyist use. >>>> I'm >>>> not wealthy enough to justify a few grand for the sake of curiosity-- >>>> though there are plenty of times I wish I were. >>>> >>>> -brian. >>> >>> > > From geoff at pkworks.com Sat Jan 19 20:29:08 2002 From: geoff at pkworks.com (Geoffrey G. Rochat) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: Symbolics Lisp Machines? Message-ID: <001501c1a15a$3ea95d60$1677f4d0@dialup> Wait a moment, I'm one of the people of the RCS/RI! I just this minute returned from our monthly Open House. Let me back up a moment, here, because I don't get all the RCS/RI's traffic, and I haven't heard of any of this. We've had several members seriously sick recently, and if you've been conversing with one them then that's why you haven't heard back. I will forward this message among the RCS/RI members. Meanwhile, would the original poster of this traffic please e-mail me with details so that I can fetch them around inside the RCS/RI so that they don't get lost again? -----Original Message----- From: David Betz To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Saturday, January 19, 2002 8:35 PM Subject: Re: Symbolics Lisp Machines? >I was never able to get the people from the Retro-Computing Society of >RI to reply to email. I may just buy the keyboard and mouse from >Symbolics now that my company is paying me again. > >On Saturday, January 19, 2002, at 05:52 PM, Bob Shannon wrote: > >> I thought the the people in Rhode Island were able to help you out >> there? >> >> I thought they needed some mice, which I may have so you can work a >> trade. >> >> Lemme know, you should get that box running! >> >> David Betz wrote: >> >>> Yes, you did. And to me too! Thanks again. >>> BTW, I'm still looking for a keyboard and mouse.... >>> >>> David Betz >>> dbetz@xlisper.mv.com >>> >>> On Friday, January 18, 2002, at 07:57 PM, Bob Shannon wrote: >>> >>>> Any interest in restoring an original CADR list machine? >>>> >>>> (I already gave away the only Symbolics box I had...) >>>> >>>> Brian Chase wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> How much you want to pay? You can buy one directly from what's left >>>>>> of >>>>>> Symbolics. Couple thou for an XL1200 and Genera 8.3. >>>>>> >>>>>> Talk to David Schmidt. I can put you in touch if you're interested. >>>>>> >>>>>> Otherwise? You get lucky. (; >>>>> >>>>> An XL1200 would be great, but it'd be for collector/hobbyist use. >>>>> I'm >>>>> not wealthy enough to justify a few grand for the sake of curiosity-- >>>>> though there are plenty of times I wish I were. >>>>> >>>>> -brian. >>>> >>>> >> >> > > > > From zaft at azstarnet.com Sat Jan 19 17:29:07 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow available in Tucson Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020119162638.02091430@mail.azstarnet.com> Anyone want a mint-condition DEC Rainbow? It's free for cost of shipping from Tucson, AZ, USA. My contact descries it as a DEC Rainbow 1-00+ complete with keyboard and monitor. On the back it apparently says PC-100+ PC-100-B2 It has a 12 MByte disk, DOS 2.11 with Fortran and dBase loaded. Please contact me offlist if you are interested. GZ From zaft at azstarnet.com Sat Jan 19 20:01:19 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon C. Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow available in Tucson In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020119162638.02091430@mail.azstarnet.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020119190108.02c1f358@pop.azstarnet.com> It's been claimed. Wow, that was fast. GZ At 04:29 PM 1/19/2002 -0700, you wrote: > Anyone want a mint-condition DEC Rainbow? It's free for cost of > shipping from Tucson, AZ, USA. > > My contact descries it as a DEC Rainbow 1-00+ complete with > keyboard and monitor. On the back it apparently says > > PC-100+ > PC-100-B2 > > > It has a 12 MByte disk, DOS 2.11 with Fortran and dBase loaded. > > Please contact me offlist if you are interested. > >GZ Gordon Zaft zaft@azstarnet.com From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Jan 19 20:41:27 2002 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow available in Tucson References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020119190108.02c1f358@pop.azstarnet.com> Message-ID: <3C4A2E57.797A9A06@idirect.com> >Gordon C. Zaft wrote: > It's been claimed. Wow, that was fast. A friend of mine is looking for a Qbus PDP-11 system - in Florida. I suggested a BA23 box as a start. Also, an RQDX1, 2 or 3 with an RX50 and a hard drive - even an RD51. Does anyone have anything available? Other things would also be "nice". He really needs to upgrade from an RX02 dual floppy system. He is at the University of Miami, or so I understand, so he can more easily transfer small files from other systems. While an RX50 is only 800 blocks at one time, that is far better than a system with just an RX02 floppy. And, of course, if he can manage with just a 988 block floppy, than a 20,000 block hard drive (RD51 - 10 Mbyte) is like having the world. Note: I doubt that there is any money available for this! If I was close by (Toronto), I would donate the stuff, but it is too far away, especially a BA23 box. From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sat Jan 19 22:58:52 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (longish) Message-ID: <20020120060101.QTCO486.imf00bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Pete Turnbull >However, it seems like every >time someone in Japan or other some other parts of the Far east designs a >circuit, they design or specify a new transistor for it -- a transistor >that is almost identical to some existing device, but has with some minor, >often trivial, tweak. I suppose it may save some corporation a fraction of >a yen on each of hundreds of thousands of units. Please note that each number is produced by a specific manufacturer. Only Sanyo makes the 2SC1308K, and only Sony makes the 2SC867A. The manufacturer name is in Japanese, in a column on the left side of the entry (don't have my book handy). So if Panasonic-Matsushita is desiging a piece of equipment, chances are that they will initiate a new Matsushita part number rather than buying an equivalent device from a competitor such as Hitachi or NEC. Thus the many equivalent devices. Glen 0/0 From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sat Jan 19 23:58:03 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: Japanese Transistor Manuals Message-ID: <20020120060109.QTEA486.imf00bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Tony -- > > That's why I bought the Japanese manuals (there's one for FETs and one for > > Where do you get them from, and how do you order them (given that the > titles are in Japanese)? The titles are in Japanese and English. You would have no problem reading them. Most Japanese trading firms will throw one in if you order $2000 worth of parts ;>) Or, you may order from MCM Electronics. Each book is USD $19.95. Glen 0/0 From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Jan 20 00:40:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: Security bits and screws In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020119133500.02457670@pc> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Jan 2002, John Foust wrote: > At 10:34 PM 1/18/2002 -0600, Tothwolf wrote: > > I was recently asked to work on equipment that had tri-wing screws > > holding it together. It was apparent someone had tried to use pliers > > to remove the screws, but was unsuccessful. I don't yet have a set of > > tri-wing bits, so MCM might get some business from me after all. > > I've always wanted a bit set that will disassemble the > McDonald's Happy Meal toys. They almost always have a > screw with a triangular hole, perhaps rounded at the bottom. > What are those called? Trilobe? That's fastener takes a tri-wing bit. They make about 5-7 different sizes of them IIRC. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Jan 20 00:44:33 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: HP III PS claimed In-Reply-To: <20020119203908.44042.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > The JetLan board, BTW, isn't a Novell board, is it? > > As far as I know, the JetLAN board _is_ Novell. I do not want to run > a Novell server with print-spooler just to be able to print. I think these may support the SMB protocol as well. If this is the case, you could always run Samba on a *nix machine. -Toth From vance at ikickass.org Sun Jan 20 00:44:33 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: <200201181836.g0IIaV004617@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > > How much would you pay for a VAX 7000-650? > > > > > > > > As much as I could afford to blow on it at the time. I'd love to have a VAX 7000. :) > > > > > > Well, the question's kinda moot, since I've decided not to sell it. > > > > Excellent! Now maybe I can get an account on it! 8-) > > > > (Just pickin' on you, Sridhar!) > > Like you don't have your own VMS systems... :-) My VAXcluster is still bigger than his. 8-) Peace... Sridhar From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sun Jan 20 02:09:52 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: Collections vs. accumulations, was Re: How many collectors? References: <20020120062649.78913.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C4A7B50.18594AC6@ccp.com> May I offer a note of indignation here without being insulting . . Exactly what does a discussion thread about a VW engine have to do with classic computers? I enjoy the occasional bits on the Amiga and other 8 bit machines I've dabbled with over theyears, and suffer quietly as you talk DECese and VAXen, but some threads are really getting off in the next county, or more. My 2 kopecks worth . . . Gary Hildebrand From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 19 20:01:58 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. In-Reply-To: <20020119225838.ZUVN19101.tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Jan 19, 2 05:58:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020120/f75a5483/attachment.ksh From mhstein at canada.com Sun Jan 20 01:03:35 2002 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3100/20 Message-ID: <01C1A157.F914C840@mse-d03> Good advice; check that the switch is set to PRT, and replace the battery; If you can't find (or afford) the correct replacement, AAA Alkalines will indeed work well, and even AA's will just fit. However, once properly configured, it should work even with a dead battery, at least until you turn it off again. Use F10 after you set the configuration, not F1. The hard disk should be set to 11 if it's the standard disk. Also, you may find it easier to just remove the keyboard to replace the battery; 3 screws under the front and a couple of tabs to release in the display latch compartment; remove the keyboard & the shield, and you'll find the battery behind the keyboard on the right. As Chris will confirm, you should remove the dead battery ASAP to avoid corrosion problems. Good luck; I've got a T3100 if I can help. mike -------------------Original Message-------------------- From: CLeyson@aol.com Subject: Re: Toshiba T3100/20 In a message dated 19/01/02 driess94@dolfijn.nl writes: > HEllo, I have bought a Toshiba T3100/20 but it won't start. Stefan, This may help, it applies to a Toshiba T3200SX so may be of some use. If there is a small switch located near the floppy drive, set it to 'B' or 'PRT'. This switch configures the parallel port for printer or external floppy drive. If it's set to 'A' the bios goes looking on the parallel port for the A drive. The machine should now boot from a DOS boot disk. Bios settings. If the T3100 is anything like the T3200 then it is likely that there is a default bios setting for the hard drive. Try this setting. If there isn't a default setting you will have to open the machine up and see what HDD is fitted. You'll have to do this anyway to replace the battery. Getting the case apart. On the top of the case, at the rear, there are two small covers which slide off to reveal hidden screws. Undo all of the screws on the underside, take of the rear cover and metal panel and the case should come apart. The battery is probably stuck onto the back of the floppy drive chassis with Velcro. (The T3200's only bad feature in my opinion). If you need to take the display apart, the screws are located under the rubber 'feet' located in the corners and underneath the label marked FDD, HDD etc. A pair of AAA sized Alkaline cells will do as a temporary replacement CMOS backup battery. There is enough room under the keyboard for them. From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Jan 19 12:12:17 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: Collections vs. accumulations, was Re: How many collectors? In-Reply-To: <20020119205518.45094.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD372255AA@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20020119231205.XYBQ103.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 12:55:18 -0800 (PST) > From: Ethan Dicks > Subject: RE: Collections vs. accumulations, was Re: How many collectors? > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > Want a fuel injection "brain" from a 1968 VW Squareback? > > > > Had Bosch come up with EFI already by 1968? > > I think so. I have a 1975 and 1976 Microbus w/EFI. I think air > > I don't have a need for a 1968 Squareback EFI brain, but I could probably > use parts for the 1.8L and 2.0L engines... the 1975 was purchased in a > previously-messed-with state and does not run reliable (the teenager who > -ethan Ethan, being VW admirer of bugs and bus, many bugs did have EFI too about same period. In fact I saw one stock Super w/ FI on sort of upright type engine in downtown last summer. FI is not too bad if you have good documentations and they're very reliable according to sources. What bedevils them is vaccuum leaks and electronic connections. Cheers, Wizard From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 19 14:55:18 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: Collections vs. accumulations, was Re: How many collectors? In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD372255AA@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20020119205518.45094.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> --- Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > > Does anyone know what sort of machine is in the car's > > > > onboard controller? A few pictures I've found make them > > > > look like PC104's. These machines are hitting zero value > > > > quickly and may not last 10 years unless picked up now. > > > > > > What car? They don't all use the same controllers, you know... > > > > Want a fuel injection "brain" from a 1968 VW Squareback? > > Had Bosch come up with EFI already by 1968? I think so. I have a 1975 and 1976 Microbus w/EFI. I think air sucking VWs that had fuel injection, always had electronic fuel injection. Among other things, it's the same block for a 1968 Squareback as for the Beetle - there's no place to put a fuel-injection pump, etc. The reason they went with EFI on the "pancake" engines was to reduce the height of the motor - no carburetor and intake manifold like on the older motors. My Bus engine is probably only 6" taller than the top of the block, if that. I don't have a need for a 1968 Squareback EFI brain, but I could probably use parts for the 1.8L and 2.0L engines... the 1975 was purchased in a previously-messed-with state and does not run reliable (the teenager who owned it before me, tweaked everything he could find to fix the fast idle problem. I looked at the car, started it, listened for a moment, then yanked up on the gas pedal - the hinge was rusty. The problem now is that the engine is out of whack and I can't seem to get it _into_ whack, and I've owned veedubs since 1983. I'm about to take it to a shop, something I rarely do with this type of car (put a water pump on a car, though, and all the other festooning you get in a Detroit or Japanese product, and I'll take that car into the shop for everything more complicated the spark plugs and oil). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 20 00:26:49 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: Collections vs. accumulations, was Re: How many collectors? In-Reply-To: <20020119231205.XYBQ103.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20020120062649.78913.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> --- jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > FI is not too bad if you have good documentations and they're very > reliable according to sources. What bedevils them is vaccuum leaks > and electronic connections. Unfortunately, the 1975 Bus was not well maintained. Among the wiring repairs, I had to resolder the leads into the cold-start injector socket, because when I pulled the boot back to inspect the wiring, the wires came out with virtually no force - the boot was cut and taped... it looked as if someone else pulled them out, then stuffed the bare wire ends into the backs of the crimp pins and held it together with electrical tape. I wish that was the only thing I'd found like that, but it wasn't (wire-nuts and 14 ga wire, 300% too long, wadded and stuffed down behind the air handler, yadda, yadda, yadda). At least it was only $300 and it was in good enough shape to drive 40 miles home. It's not reliable enough for regular transport, but it should be repairable. In any case, since I own two mid-1970s EFI microbuses, I'd love to have a spare EFI brain of the vintage. They are essentially analog computers with about 300 discrete components, but documentation is scant. They could be repaired in a pinch, but I don't think anyone has reverse- engineered one, so debugging would suck. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Jan 20 01:32:11 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > And sometimes the primary is designed to be the thermal fuse. If it > overheats, the insulation melts, you get shorted turns, and it either > melts the wire or blows the current-operated fuse. Apparently the > former (wire that's designed to melt after the insulation has melted) > actually meets most safety approvals, and it's the intended failure > mode of most cheap wall-warts over here. Is it any wonder I can't > stand the darn things? The 9V AC wall-warts that are sold with USRobotics/3Com modems are made this way. I had one spontaneously fail, and could find no problems with the modem it had powered. The wall-wart had an open primary, so I disassembled it. Inside, I found the core's plastic bobbin was melted. While removing the primary windings, I found damage to the enamel wire that indicated that the wire had been wound too tightly when the core was manufactured. It appears that a few layers of the primary winding were shorted out from the factory. What seems to have happened, is that the remaining primary windings were over voltage, and eventually the heat that it produced damaged both the plastic bobbin and the wire's enamel insulation. USRobotics/3Com still would not send a replacement unit free of change, even tho this one was clearly factory defective. They want $15 plus shipping for these pieces of junk. I've been considering rewinding this particular transformer, just for practice (I haven't rebuilt one in awhile). I've not yet decided if it's worth possibly wasting some enamel wire on. I think I'd want to replace the plastic bobbin if I do decide to rewind this transformer. -Toth From vance at ikickass.org Sun Jan 20 01:34:31 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: OS/2 V3 and Memory In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Stupid question. Is there some kind of memory limit in OS/2 Warp V3. For > some reason the system I've got thinks it has 48MB, and unless I'm mistaken > it has 192MB of RAM. The BIOS recognizes all the RAM, right? You might have to tell OS/2 how much RAM you have. I am not sure how to do it, but I could probably find out. I've used OS/2 with gigs of RAM. Peace... Sridhar From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Jan 20 01:43:54 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: OT: VW bus (was: RE: Collections vs. accumulations ....) In-Reply-To: <20020120062649.78913.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Unfortunately, the 1975 Bus was not well maintained. > At least it was only $300 and it was in good enough shape to drive 40 > miles home. It's not reliable enough for regular transport, but it > should be repairable. About 2 years ago I purchased a 1969 Bus for $200. Someone had turned the thing into an art car, and had abandoned it when its engine threw a rod. I'm slowly restoring it back to original condition, and plan to build up an engine for it. The engine that was in it was a real frankenstein. It contained parts from at least 4 or 5 different models of VW engines. The only reason I bought the thing with a DOA engine was the condition of the body. Other than the typical rust found around the windshield and rusted out front floor panels, the body is in great shape. -Toth From dittman at dittman.net Sun Jan 20 01:50:54 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:47 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: from "Julius Sridhar" at Jan 20, 2002 01:44:33 AM Message-ID: <200201200750.g0K7osr01759@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > > > > How much would you pay for a VAX 7000-650? > > > > > > > > > > As much as I could afford to blow on it at the time. I'd love to have a VAX 7000. :) > > > > > > > > Well, the question's kinda moot, since I've decided not to sell it. > > > > > > Excellent! Now maybe I can get an account on it! 8-) > > > > > > (Just pickin' on you, Sridhar!) > > > > Like you don't have your own VMS systems... :-) > > My VAXcluster is still bigger than his. 8-) So *THAT* is why you decided not to sell your 7650! :-) -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jan 20 01:51:09 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: RT 6150 Docs (and mouse??) Message-ID: Hi. Does anyone have pointers for detailed documentation? A mouse, maybe? And which operating system - AIX v2.2, BSD4.3, or AOS - do I want to run? I'm leaning toward AIX, mostly because I work with "modern" AIX, but I'm plenty willing to take suggestions. For that matter, what *is* AOS, anyway? I just found out that I got in first claim for a functional RT 6150. I can't pick it up till tomoroww afternoon, though.... The guy who's giving it away says he "has no boot disk, but it starts up just fine."!? He also thinks it has 3 drives and is maxed out on memory. It comes with a display and keyboard, but no docs and no mouse. I've been googling, and there are a lot of mentions of it, but no real information. This is kind of a special score. I never used computers at all till late '95, and started building my own in '96. That spring, I went to pick up a video card from a guy who had an RT 6151, and it was the first time I really grasped that the world wasn't all Mac & PC. I've wanted one ever since. I guess all things come to those who lurk. Doc From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jan 20 02:01:19 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: OS/2 V3 and Memory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >The BIOS recognizes all the RAM, right? You might have to tell OS/2 how >much RAM you have. I am not sure how to do it, but I could probably find >out. I've used OS/2 with gigs of RAM. > >Peace... Sridhar That's the latest problem. As mentioned in the post on the HP Vectra earlier this morning, I found out that the BIOS thinks it's got three banks of 16MB each, when it's actually 3 banks of 64MB each. Very wierd. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jan 20 02:04:22 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: looking for DEC VR160 monitor Message-ID: <15434.31238.423798.983073@phaduka.neurotica.com> Hey folks. I'd like to find a DEC VR160 monitor (19" mono) at some point. Does anyone have one that they want to get rid of? -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From vance at ikickass.org Sun Jan 20 02:29:47 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: RT 6150 Docs (and mouse??) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > Hi. > Does anyone have pointers for detailed documentation? A mouse, maybe? > And which operating system - AIX v2.2, BSD4.3, or AOS - do I want to > run? I'm leaning toward AIX, mostly because I work with "modern" AIX, > but I'm plenty willing to take suggestions. For that matter, what *is* > AOS, anyway? AIX is a little bit of a hog. AOS is better. AOS is the "Academic Operating System", or IBM's officially supported version of 4.3BSD. > I just found out that I got in first claim for a functional RT 6150. I > can't pick it up till tomoroww afternoon, though.... > The guy who's giving it away says he "has no boot disk, but it starts > up just fine."!? He also thinks it has 3 drives and is maxed out on > memory. It comes with a display and keyboard, but no docs and no mouse. > I've been googling, and there are a lot of mentions of it, but no real > information. There is a *lot* of RT information out there. The RT-FAQ is a good place to start. > This is kind of a special score. I never used computers at all till > late '95, and started building my own in '96. That spring, I went to > pick up a video card from a guy who had an RT 6151, and it was the first > time I really grasped that the world wasn't all Mac & PC. I've wanted > one ever since. > I guess all things come to those who lurk. Indeed. I'd love to have an RT. Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Sun Jan 20 02:30:12 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: <200201200750.g0K7osr01759@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > Like you don't have your own VMS systems... :-) > > > > My VAXcluster is still bigger than his. 8-) > > So *THAT* is why you decided not to sell your 7650! > > :-) Hehehehe. Peace... Sridhar From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Jan 19 21:33:33 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: Collections vs. accumulations, was Re: How many collectors? In-Reply-To: <20020120062649.78913.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020119231205.XYBQ103.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20020120083322.WWSJ22140.tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 22:26:49 -0800 (PST) > From: Ethan Dicks > Subject: RE: Collections vs. accumulations, was Re: How many collectors? > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Unfortunately, the 1975 Bus was not well maintained. Among the > wiring repairs, I had to resolder the leads into the cold-start > injector socket, because when I pulled the boot back to inspect > the wiring, the wires came out with virtually no force - the boot > was cut and taped... it looked as if someone else pulled them out, > then stuffed the bare wire ends into the backs of the crimp pins > and held it together with electrical tape. I wish that was the only > thing I'd found like that, but it wasn't (wire-nuts and 14 ga wire, > 300% too long, wadded and stuffed down behind the air handler, yadda, > yadda, yadda). Amazing! Do you know you may have some luck at junkyards? And there's newsgroup you might know of related to old bugs and buses? rec.autos.makers.vw.aircooled There you go. Been a lurker there for years, people there is wonderful and knows where to get oddball stuff. No, I don't own any kind of vehicles YET. > In any case, since I own two mid-1970s EFI microbuses, I'd love to have > a spare EFI brain of the vintage. They are essentially analog computers > with about 300 discrete components, but documentation is scant. They > could be repaired in a pinch, but I don't think anyone has reverse- > engineered one, so debugging would suck. If that 300 parts, this sounds like fairly big ECU box? Most of current and 10 year old ECUs are about 1 foot square by 3" thick or smaller than that. My friend had '72 bus came w/ EFI originally on pancake 2.0L but he tore out EFI and used twin carbs and 009. Worked out ok but when we met and one or two years later, I commented to him if that he kept the EFI in there and diagnosed things correctly, he would have a wonderful bus w/ smooth running engine years to come. Soon after, instead he traded it away for '68 Mercedes 300D. Nice car but HEAVY and what a boat. Diesel in straight 5 engine, loads of torque. Bit of a lope at idle, due to one of injector firing wrong amount of fuel. :-) I'm indifferent to his whirlwind of stuff he does or does not too well but for me, I vowed to do things correctly on vehicles, that does matter if one chose a vehicle that is not so troublesome and so $$$ on upkeep. I know because I help him out on his jettas for last 3 years so far. VWs of late 80's and later era is expensive on parts and bit fussy on upkeep plus they don't wear well if not on good upkeep. The worst thing on friend's pair of Jettas, both needs rear calipers bec all set of 4 has seized parking brakes. Cost is about 150 EACH, oh yeah don't ask about cost of discs...both needed good set of them. That's why I chose to stick to Chyrsler and it's siblings (Eagle, etc), must be manual stick or 3 speed auto, mid-size or smaller, 4cyl (not 2.6L), for my first vehicle. Yes, I'm on both mailing list for minivans and EEK, researches on chyrslers. Someday, I'll take a old VW as hobby car. :-) > -ethan Cheers, Wizard From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jan 20 03:02:52 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: RT 6150 Docs (and mouse??) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > AIX is a little bit of a hog. AOS is better. AOS is the "Academic > Operating System", or IBM's officially supported version of 4.3BSD. AIX is a hog in *any* of its incarnations. I'm seeing that AOS fixes support the AHA1542 SCSI adapter, which I have, so that may be the ticket. I'd like to be able to use my SCSI tape drives. > There is a *lot* of RT information out there. The RT-FAQ is a good place > to start. Yeah. As usual, no sooner did I say "I can't find it" than I found it. Them. > Indeed. I'd love to have an RT. I'll see if there are two. :^) BTW, I haven't gotten around to shipping the 7011-250, but I didn't forget. Maybe Monday. Doc From vance at ikickass.org Sun Jan 20 04:35:41 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: RT 6150 Docs (and mouse??) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > > > AIX is a little bit of a hog. AOS is better. AOS is the "Academic > > Operating System", or IBM's officially supported version of 4.3BSD. > > AIX is a hog in *any* of its incarnations. I'm seeing that AOS fixes > support the AHA1542 SCSI adapter, which I have, so that may be the > ticket. I'd like to be able to use my SCSI tape drives. With that hogging, though, you get a lot of neat features. > > There is a *lot* of RT information out there. The RT-FAQ is a good place > > to start. > > Yeah. As usual, no sooner did I say "I can't find it" than I found > it. Them. > > > Indeed. I'd love to have an RT. > > I'll see if there are two. :^) Cool. > BTW, I haven't gotten around to shipping the 7011-250, but I didn't > forget. Maybe Monday. Cool. Peace... Sridhar From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Jan 20 08:13:35 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: RT 6150 Docs (and mouse??) Message-ID: <10d.c10d400.297c2a8f@aol.com> In a message dated 1/20/2002 2:58:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, doc@mdrconsult.com writes: << Hi. Does anyone have pointers for detailed documentation? A mouse, maybe? And which operating system - AIX v2.2, BSD4.3, or AOS - do I want to run? I'm leaning toward AIX, mostly because I work with "modern" AIX, but I'm plenty willing to take suggestions. For that matter, what *is* AOS, anyway? I just found out that I got in first claim for a functional RT 6150. I can't pick it up till tomoroww afternoon, though.... The guy who's giving it away says he "has no boot disk, but it starts up just fine."!? He also thinks it has 3 drives and is maxed out on memory. It comes with a display and keyboard, but no docs and no mouse. I've been googling, and there are a lot of mentions of it, but no real information. >> The ez way to tell an RT mouse is that it will have 2 round buttons like eyes. There is an RT newsgroup that has ontopic postings every once in a while so you can ask there for questions. Did you get the desktop or tower form factor? Desktop can only have 1 drive AFAIK. 16meg is the max mem i believe. Mine has a MDA so I can run text only but am getting a Megapel for it soon. Not rare machines, but I've never seen any besides the one I have. I'd hate to pay shipping for it though, extremely heavy! -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Jan 20 09:20:44 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 References: <3C49EEF9.4010902@cnonline.net> <001101c1a141$1c3276e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3C4AE04C.1070106@cnonline.net> Well, after much more googling, I found out what Richard goes on to tell me.. The only thing that actually talkes to a scsi tape in windows land is the backup application. Richard Erlacher wrote: > Just exactly what do you want from a "driver" for a tape drive? > > Generally, what's wanted from tape drives is that they function with a backup > applicaiton. Exactly.. Well anyway windows 95 backup makes a good show of complaining that it can't see the tape drive, That is makes you think it should see the tape drive if you only had a driver. anyway, will try to copy the backup from W98 in and report back. From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Jan 20 11:12:55 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: Security bits and screws In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.0.20020119133500.02457670@pc> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020120111145.00aeff90@pc> At 12:40 AM 1/20/2002 -0600, Tothwolf wrote: >On Sat, 19 Jan 2002, John Foust wrote: >> I've always wanted a bit set that will disassemble the >> McDonald's Happy Meal toys. They almost always have a >> screw with a triangular hole, perhaps rounded at the bottom. >> What are those called? Trilobe? > >That's fastener takes a tri-wing bit. They make about 5-7 different sizes >of them IIRC. Ah, that's the rub: I'd been expecting to see a security bit shaped like the triangular hole, but you're saying the tri-wing (with three vanes from the center) is the proper bit for those screws... - John From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Jan 20 11:28:59 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 In-Reply-To: <3C4AE04C.1070106@cnonline.net> References: <3C49EEF9.4010902@cnonline.net> <001101c1a141$1c3276e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020120111942.023f1be8@pc> At 07:20 AM 1/20/2002 -0800, Ron Hudson wrote: >Well, after much more googling, I found out what Richard goes >on to tell me.. The only thing that actually talkes to a scsi >tape in windows land is the backup application. Back in 1998 I posted about a circa 1992 "ASPITAPE.SYS" driver I got from Compuserve to drive SCSI DAT and Exabyte under MS-DOS. I seem to remember using it under Windows 3.11. I even had a 'tar' and 'mt' that worked with it. I can probably find them again if you like. http://www.fship.com/ftp/pdtools has the "pctar.exe" that worked with it, and http://www.filelibrary.com/Contents/DOS/49/2.html has the ASPITAPE.SYS driver. It was made by Greg Shenaut. He's still active at although I doubt the software has been updated since 1992. Today's Google search on ASPITAPE showed that you can use it to emulate TMSCP tapes under the Osprey emulator, too. - John From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jan 16 07:12:19 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225D0A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225D0A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <02Jan20.131019est.119247@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >Most graphics problems under Windows Xp and 2000 can >ultimately be traced to poorly-written video card >drivers... the NVidia and TNT, Voodoo, Banshee, and >other 3D-focused cards are the worst. The developers >put all their time into the 3D code, leaving the 2D >code working like crap. I'm not impressed with the 3D cards under NT, XP or 2000 but never had a problem with various Voodoo's and ATI cards under 95/98. One of the nicer 3D cards I had on the PC-side was a Real3D Starfighter with an i860 and 16MB RAM onboard. I wish 3dfx hadn't gone under...I bought one of the Voodoo 5's (Mac version) shortly after they came out and really liked it but since they never got past BETA drivers I sold it and bought a Radeon. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Jan 18 01:09:13 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: ; from vance@ikickass.org on Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 06:30:18 CET References: Message-ID: <20020118080913.Y32007@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.01.18 06:30 Julius Sridhar wrote: > How much would you pay for a VAX 7000-650? My mother? ;-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Jan 20 11:40:49 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: Security bits and screws In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020120111145.00aeff90@pc> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, John Foust wrote: > At 12:40 AM 1/20/2002 -0600, Tothwolf wrote: > >On Sat, 19 Jan 2002, John Foust wrote: > >> I've always wanted a bit set that will disassemble the > >> McDonald's Happy Meal toys. They almost always have a > >> screw with a triangular hole, perhaps rounded at the bottom. > >> What are those called? Trilobe? > > > >That's fastener takes a tri-wing bit. They make about 5-7 different sizes > >of them IIRC. > > Ah, that's the rub: I'd been expecting to see a security bit shaped > like the triangular hole, but you're saying the tri-wing (with three > vanes from the center) is the proper bit for those screws... Right. You can find these kinds of bits at some of the larger hardware stores. MCM also carries them if you can't find them anywhere locally. All of the security bit sets they sell include at least 4 of the different sizes. I'd like to find a full set of security-bit screwdrivers -- full length shaft with handle. I'm not sure anyone is selling such a set yet. I think I'd be happy just finding all the drivers individually or in small groups at this point. The short 1/4" hex drive bits work fine for occasional use, but when removing more than just a few screws, the bits have a tendency to stay with the screw and not the driver handle. -Toth From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jan 20 12:05:11 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: Security bits and screws In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > I'd like to find a full set of security-bit screwdrivers -- full length > shaft with handle. I'm not sure anyone is selling such a set yet. I think > I'd be happy just finding all the drivers individually or in small groups > at this point. The short 1/4" hex drive bits work fine for occasional use, > but when removing more than just a few screws, the bits have a tendency to > stay with the screw and not the driver handle. If they're charging $30-$50 per tool, I'll *make* the d___ed things. I still have my Foredom Flex and my torch, and I made my own punch & chisel sets for many years. From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jan 20 12:01:51 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 In-Reply-To: <3C4AE04C.1070106@cnonline.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Ron Hudson wrote: > Exactly.. Well anyway windows 95 backup makes a good show > of complaining that it can't see the tape drive, That is > makes you think it should see the tape drive if you only > had a driver. Ron, I haven't been closely following this thread, so I disremember what model drive you have, but my experience with any Windows except NT/2k is that Richard should have said "The only thing that actually talkes to a scsi tape in windows land is *a real* backup application." That doesn't include Windows Backup. Contact me off-list, if you like, and if the Win98 solution still acts stupid. Doc From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Jan 20 12:23:32 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: Security bits and screws In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > I'd like to find a full set of security-bit screwdrivers -- full length > > shaft with handle. I'm not sure anyone is selling such a set yet. I think > > I'd be happy just finding all the drivers individually or in small groups > > at this point. The short 1/4" hex drive bits work fine for occasional use, > > but when removing more than just a few screws, the bits have a tendency to > > stay with the screw and not the driver handle. > > If they're charging $30-$50 per tool, I'll *make* the d___ed things. > I still have my Foredom Flex and my torch, and I made my own punch & > chisel sets for many years. I would certainly *hope* some company does not think they can get that much for drivers. The guy selling those external line head drivers seems to be charging that much because he is importing them. I imagine he is paying around $10-12 US for those drivers in Japan. -Toth From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 20 12:28:52 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. In-Reply-To: <002301c1a15e$e021e500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jan 19, 2 08:02:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1326 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020120/60b3fde9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 20 12:34:50 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Jan 20, 2 01:32:11 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1299 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020120/bee18f55/attachment.ksh From rod.young at sk.sympatico.ca Sun Jan 20 12:48:05 2002 From: rod.young at sk.sympatico.ca (R.Y.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: TTi 8510 tape drive References: Message-ID: <3C4B10E5.A14F8AF1@sk.sympatico.ca> Can't find the TTi (tape drive) system site? Did they go away? Anyone have a pointer to an 8510 manual or an electronic copy? thanks rod From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jan 20 13:02:40 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 References: Message-ID: <002a01c1a1e5$08f76be0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'd caution you to be VERY careful about relying on Win9x for backup, irrespective of the 3rd-party application you use. There are only a few I haven't tried, and and, so far, I've found exactly NONE that work reliably, i.e. that perform backup, verify, and restore, as they should under a wide range of situations. A few work some of the time, and those are the WORST thing to try to deal with, as they build up unwarranted confidence. Keep in mind that you spend most of the time simply making backups, and on the rare occasion when you really do need it, it's a real disappointment to find that the application can't read its own writing if the backup date and restore date don't have the same checksum, or crc or the phase of the moon is different. It's true that the Windows Backup is pretty poor, but the reason these applications don't work, in general, has less to do with the fact they're backup applications and more to do with the way in which the OS interacts with its disk storage media, file system, and I/O, and consequently seems to have ill effect on both the Microsoft-provided (acquired from Seagate) Backup and those from third-party vendors. I've ovbserved the same ill effects on M$ backup that I've seen on products ranging in cost from $50 to $750, and have yet to find one that works in all circumstances. Unfortunately, the crappy product from M$ seems to work about as (un)reliably as any. What all of this suggests to me is that it has little to do with the SCSI interface or with the way in which it handles tape drives, since I've had similar problems on SCSI tape, SCSI disk, IDE tape, and IDE removables, as well as floppy-tape. Even storage to network devices seems to be impacted by the general ieffectiveness of backup strategies under Wind9x. I'd welcome any constructive suggestions, short of wasting another few bucks on yet another half-assed backup package. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc" To: Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 11:01 AM Subject: Re: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 > On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Ron Hudson wrote: > > > Exactly.. Well anyway windows 95 backup makes a good show > > of complaining that it can't see the tape drive, That is > > makes you think it should see the tape drive if you only > > had a driver. > > Ron, > I haven't been closely following this thread, so I disremember what > model drive you have, but my experience with any Windows except NT/2k is > that Richard should have said "The only thing that actually talkes to a > scsi tape in windows land is *a real* backup application." That doesn't > include Windows Backup. > Contact me off-list, if you like, and if the Win98 solution still > acts stupid. > > Doc > > From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Jan 20 13:18:11 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 In-Reply-To: <002a01c1a1e5$08f76be0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I'd welcome any constructive suggestions, short of wasting another few > bucks on yet another half-assed backup package. My favorite method of backing up windows machines is to export the directories or drives via smb, and mount them on a Linux machine as smbfs network drives. I can then use plain old tar and a dat or dlt drive to back up whatever I want. If I need to restore a machine completely, a bare install of windows will do fine once the network settings are configured. -Toth From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jan 20 13:43:28 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 In-Reply-To: <002a01c1a1e5$08f76be0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I'd welcome any constructive suggestions, short of wasting another few bucks > on yet another half-assed backup package. I use a Linux Rescue CD with support for my SCSI adapter (any Adaptec & most NCR/Symbios/LSI cards will be built in without modification) and do a straight tar or dd-to-diskfile-then-tar backup. I've done a couple of bare-metal restores of Windows 95 from dd images and it worked beautifully, but you need lots of room on a spare filesystem. I guess Ghost (which I've seen for as little as $50 lately) is probably the best Win/DOS based option. Again, hardware requirements are the rub. Doc From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jan 20 13:48:30 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 References: Message-ID: <003e01c1a1eb$6fe74ae0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'll certainly consider that once the LINUX documentation is within a generation or two of the currently released software, rather than six or seven generations out of phase. It's too risky to use code that's not documented any better than that. It's worse than NO documents at all! I use an old DOS-based backup utility, called EnterpriZ, which was done by some third-party in collaboration with Exabyte and Novell, together with "doslfnbk" to deal with the long file names. That seems to work without a hitch, though it takes down the machine being backed up for the duration. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" To: Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 12:18 PM Subject: Re: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 > On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > I'd welcome any constructive suggestions, short of wasting another few > > bucks on yet another half-assed backup package. > > My favorite method of backing up windows machines is to export the > directories or drives via smb, and mount them on a Linux machine as smbfs > network drives. I can then use plain old tar and a dat or dlt drive to > back up whatever I want. If I need to restore a machine completely, a bare > install of windows will do fine once the network settings are configured. > > -Toth > > From tom at sba.miami.edu Sun Jan 20 13:52:09 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: PDP-11 with real ADV11-C board still unhappy In-Reply-To: <10201190027.ZM9157@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: Thanks. I tried all that, and then I moved the system home. (It was stored about 20 miles away before, and I was getting tired of driving back and forth, but that finally overcame my laziness of loading it all into my truck). Anyway, when I got home I noticed it got just slightly further than before. I took out all the modules and checked for the fourth time that they were set correctly. I found that one of the zero ohm resistor-style jumpers on the DRV11 had been cut even with the board, so it looked very much like it was still connected, and I managed to miss this before. I soldered a jumper around it, but still the same problem. Remembering that it got further than it did before, I decided to hook back up the external hardware that talks to the DRV11 and DRV11-B. (I hadn't attached it since I got home). Sure enough, it worked. I assume the vector address on the DRV11 had something to do with it, but why it got that little bit futher with nothing but hauling the equipment around still bothers me. Anyway, hopefully it will stay that way. Thanks very much again for all your help, as well as everyone elses. -Tom On Sat, 19 Jan 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > Probably, but I'm not sure what :-) You could try halting it and see if i > always halts in the same place(s). If so, it would be worth looking to see > if you can figure out what instructions it executing at that point. It > might be a WAIT or a polling loop. Also look at the vectors in low memory > (from locations 0 to about 20), and the vectors for the devices you have in > the system. They should point to somewhere in the program. > > Sounds like you have it set up correctly, at least as far as addressing is > concerned. > > The order of the modules shouldn't matter, though it's best to have > CPU-memory-serial followed by whatever device needs highest priority > response. I expect the DSD RX02 controller works just like a DEC one as > far as addresses and interrupts are concerned, so that's unlikely to > matter. The BDV11 is another story, though. It includes a line-time > clock, and your system may need that. IIRC, it's controlled by a > combination of a switch on the BDV11, a bit in a register on the BDV11, and > the LTC switch on the front panel. All of those have to be enabled, and > the BDV11 must be present, for the clock to run. I have seen systems that > boot but then hang if the software needs a clock but it's not present or is > disabled. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Jan 20 14:10:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 In-Reply-To: <003e01c1a1eb$6fe74ae0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I'll certainly consider that once the LINUX documentation is within a > generation or two of the currently released software, rather than six > or seven generations out of phase. It's too risky to use code that's > not documented any better than that. It's worse than NO documents at > all! I'm not really sure which documentation you are referring to, but http://www.linuxdoc.org/ generally contains up-to-date documentation for a large number of things. Documentation for stuff like 'tar' is also very well maintained, try 'info tar' or 'man tar' at the shell prompt sometime. Certain Linux *distributions* are very bad about not packaging the latest documentation available. I won't name them since they are among some of the most popular. If you are waiting on a Linux *book* to be up-to-date, you will be waiting an eternity. By the time material is printed, at least 6 months has passed since the author wrote it. If all else fails, Use the source, Luke! -Toth From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jan 20 14:09:55 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 References: Message-ID: <000901c1a1ee$6d95b260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> IIRC, GHOST has the problem that it won't deal directly with large drives, and that it expects to deal with media essentially identical to what's being backed up. I don't have a removable media disk drive with 100 GB capacity yet, but since there are problems with disks for backup under WIndows anyway, I'll have to wait for something for TAPE or DVD-R to come out. What I'm after, of course, is scheduled backup that doesn't require any human interaction at all, other than daily removal of the backup media from the previous backup. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc" To: Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 12:43 PM Subject: Re: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 > On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > I'd welcome any constructive suggestions, short of wasting another few bucks > > on yet another half-assed backup package. > > I use a Linux Rescue CD with support for my SCSI adapter (any Adaptec > & most NCR/Symbios/LSI cards will be built in without modification) and > do a straight tar or dd-to-diskfile-then-tar backup. I've done a couple > of bare-metal restores of Windows 95 from dd images and it worked > beautifully, but you need lots of room on a spare filesystem. > > I guess Ghost (which I've seen for as little as $50 lately) is > probably the best Win/DOS based option. Again, hardware requirements are > the rub. > > Doc > > From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Jan 20 14:58:24 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:48 2005 Subject: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 In-Reply-To: <000901c1a1ee$6d95b260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > What I'm after, of course, is scheduled backup that doesn't require > any human interaction at all, other than daily removal of the backup > media from the previous backup. Get a Mac! Had to be said, even if it's more or less irrelevant here. Actually, the recommendation of smbfs mounting Windows shares from the Win98 system over the network is a really good idea. At least if you've got a spare PC with a NIC and SCSI for the tape device, and if you're looking to do this cheaply. In fact, the idea is so good, there should probably be a single disk bootable backup server solution that works like this. It'd be trivial to setup automated backup schedules using the cron daemon. The only backup software I've administered that works well with PCs would be Veritas NetBackup and Tivoli's TSM (previously IBM's ADSM). Of course that was with backup client software running on the PCs and Unix based backup servers that actually performed the tape I/O. Both of these solutions are well out of the price and feature range of your average home users. -brian. From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Jan 20 15:30:23 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 References: Message-ID: <3C4B36EF.6040607@cnonline.net> The windows 98 backup ploy did not work, I was finally able to copy all of the needed dlls, then when the backup software was launched, it ran for a moment then quietly quit. I am currently trying the ASPITAPE.SYS and PCTAR.EXE as suggested by John Foust. I do have a DOS diskette that I can boot with that has all the Adaptec drivers and Syquest junk. Here's the rundown of the machine: 486 66 DX cpu with 16mb memory 165 mb SCSI hard drive internal 40 mb SCSI Syquest drive internal 640x480 16 color video SCSI CDROM external Tanberg TDC3800 SCSI tape external. 5.25 & 3.5 combined floppy disks. Sweet "lunchbox Style" case. I have pictures, can I attach them to an email to the list? From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Jan 20 16:14:25 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 In-Reply-To: <3C4B36EF.6040607@cnonline.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Ron Hudson wrote: > I do have a DOS diskette that I can boot with that has > all the Adaptec drivers and Syquest junk. > > Here's the rundown of the machine: > 486 66 DX cpu with 16mb memory > 165 mb SCSI hard drive internal > 40 mb SCSI Syquest drive internal > 640x480 16 color video > SCSI CDROM external > Tanberg TDC3800 SCSI tape external. > 5.25 & 3.5 combined floppy disks. Are the disk drives and the SCSI tape device on the same controller? And if so, what's the controller type? I missed it if you've mentioned it already. It's possible that the SCSI bus is getting saturated, and I doubt Win95 does little to aid the situation with intelligent handling of I/O. -brian. From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jan 20 16:37:58 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: Fwd: FS: NeXT stuff Message-ID: Thought the NeXT-heads might be interested. I could probably help with pickup & shipping, if needed. Doc From: Jon Newsgroups: austin.forsale,dfw.forsale Subject: FS: NeXT stuff Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 14:52:06 -0600 I have 5 next cubes, 2 slabs (mono), 2 keyboards, and 1 monitor (dont know if it works). I have some other stuff too, so if you want we can kind of fish through the stuff and see what works. 1 of the cubes doesnt have anything in it, 3 are cubes, and one is a computer (all the cubes are upgraded computers... just for those of you who might be confused, the computer was the 68030 that came in the cube shaped case, and the cube was the 68040 that came out later but still in the same style case). I also have 4 printers (I can part with two of them), but need to make sure they work. I also have a set of openstep documents (I'll be getting the software soon). Most of the cubes have hd's, some dont, and some have magneto drives and some dont... so first come first serve. I'm asking 60 for the cubes, 50 for the computer, and 35 for the empty case. send an e-mail to jon@slurpee.org if you're interested, and let me know if you need any other next stuff as I find it often. Thanks, jon From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jan 20 17:08:18 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: PDP-11 with real ADV11-C board still unhappy In-Reply-To: Tom Leffingwell "Re: PDP-11 with real ADV11-C board still unhappy" (Jan 20, 14:52) References: Message-ID: <10201202308.ZM11047@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 20, 14:52, Tom Leffingwell wrote: > > Thanks. I tried all that, and then I moved the system home. [...] > I decided to hook back > up the external hardware that talks to the DRV11 and DRV11-B. (I hadn't > attached it since I got home). Sure enough, it worked. I assume the > vector address on the DRV11 had something to do with it, but why it got > that little bit futher with nothing but hauling the equipment around still > bothers me. Anyway, hopefully it will stay that way. Well done! You've fixed it ;-) Seriously, it's often stuff like that which catches us out. On the positive side, you've learned a few things, and had a bit of fun (depending on your definition of fun). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From MTPro at aol.com Sun Jan 20 18:46:51 2002 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: Stan Veit's History of the PC Books - Blow Out - $4 Shipped! Message-ID: <> Hi there, I do still have copies left and the offer still stands for any subscribers of the list. $4 covers the book with shipping by USPS Media Mail to anywhere in the US, international buyers will pay $2.50 plus actual shipping. If you've never checked out this book, grab a copy now, it's worth the read! Thanks for asking! Best, David David Greelish Classic Computing www.classiccomputing.com "classiccomputing" on eBay - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 10:32 AM Subject: Stan Veit's History of the PC Books - Blow Out - $4 Shipped! > I have a number of brand new copies I'd like to move out. This is a super > deal just for classiccmp subscribers. Please e-mail me! > For more info on the book, see: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1289515294 > Best, David > > David Greelish > Classic Computing > www.classiccomputing.com > "classiccomputing" on eBay From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Jan 20 12:28:19 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. In-Reply-To: References: <20020119225838.ZUVN19101.tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Jan 19, 2 05:58:49 pm Message-ID: <20020120232805.ZUAP24797.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > > > > > Ouch! What ever happened to user-replacable fuses to handle such problems? > > > > Yes *there is* SMD 500mA fuse and zener diode but that is AFTER that > > darned ceramic capacitor. That why wall wart died and capacitor > > Brilliant!. This reminds me of a number of other safety features (and > also self-diagnostic features) that fail to work when a fairly common > problem occurs.... > At your tip on cracking transformer open, I got it opened, transformer inside is undamaged in act of opening it up. Phew, Stinky! Turned out that wart is simple seperate primary and secondary side to side. The core is not *welded*, only held in place by dipped whole thing in vat of vanish. The plastic bobbin is not burned up or melted down. The primary wires simply vaporized leaving copper balls on both wires, and one sooty spot. These parted wires is where it exits the primary to the power prongs. When that primary finally blew, it looked like both wires flew away from coil. Cheers, Wizard From donm at cts.com Sun Jan 20 19:38:31 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > And sometimes the primary is designed to be the thermal fuse. If it > > overheats, the insulation melts, you get shorted turns, and it either > > melts the wire or blows the current-operated fuse. Apparently the > > former (wire that's designed to melt after the insulation has melted) > > actually meets most safety approvals, and it's the intended failure > > mode of most cheap wall-warts over here. Is it any wonder I can't > > stand the darn things? > > The 9V AC wall-warts that are sold with USRobotics/3Com modems are made > this way. I had one spontaneously fail, and could find no problems with > the modem it had powered. The wall-wart had an open primary, so I > disassembled it. Inside, I found the core's plastic bobbin was melted. > While removing the primary windings, I found damage to the enamel wire > that indicated that the wire had been wound too tightly when the core was > manufactured. It appears that a few layers of the primary winding were > shorted out from the factory. What seems to have happened, is that the > remaining primary windings were over voltage, and eventually the heat that > it produced damaged both the plastic bobbin and the wire's enamel > insulation. > > USRobotics/3Com still would not send a replacement unit free of change, > even tho this one was clearly factory defective. They want $15 plus > shipping for these pieces of junk. > > I've been considering rewinding this particular transformer, just for > practice (I haven't rebuilt one in awhile). I've not yet decided if it's > worth possibly wasting some enamel wire on. I think I'd want to replace > the plastic bobbin if I do decide to rewind this transformer. > > -Toth If you want to rewind it just for nostalgia sake, fine. However, a bit of rustling around in some of the thrift stores would likely turn up a wall wart with the proper connector and a 9VAC output. I think I saw one today when looking for a 6VDC one. - don From allain at panix.com Sun Jan 20 22:26:34 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. References: Message-ID: <001f01c1a233$cfd725e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > If you want to rewind it just for nostalgia sake, fine. However,... Oops, I may have missed something. If you need a single output wart of less than 1A I probably have a spare and will take off list e-quests. John A. From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 21 02:26:57 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > I've been considering rewinding this particular transformer, just for > > practice (I haven't rebuilt one in awhile). I've not yet decided if it's > > worth possibly wasting some enamel wire on. I think I'd want to replace > > the plastic bobbin if I do decide to rewind this transformer. > > If you want to rewind it just for nostalgia sake, fine. However, a bit > of rustling around in some of the thrift stores would likely turn up a > wall wart with the proper connector and a 9VAC output. I think I saw > one today when looking for a 6VDC one. The main reason I might rewind it is to practice coil winding. It has been a few years since I wound anything with wire that small. I already calculated the proper wire gauge and number of turns, which I had already estimated as I took off the old windings. I'd trust my own winding work over that found in prefab wall-warts too. I'm still searching for a hand operated coil winding machine. I've only seen a few, and they were all still in use by other people. If anyone finds one they don't want, even in non-working or incomplete condition, let me know. These things are likely considered antiques now. -Toth From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jan 20 17:29:15 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: Fwd: FS: NeXT stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > Thought the NeXT-heads might be interested. I could probably help with > pickup & shipping, if needed. D'oh! I forgot to add: I just forwarded this off the local NG. You'll need to contact the guy directly. Doc From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jan 20 19:59:54 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: Fwd: FS: NeXT stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Doc, Jon isn't interested in shipping and was wondering if you were willing to be a 'go between' for the '030 Cube? Thanks and take care Jeff >Thought the NeXT-heads might be interested. I could probably help with >pickup & shipping, if needed. > > Doc > >From: Jon >Newsgroups: austin.forsale,dfw.forsale >Subject: FS: NeXT stuff >Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 14:52:06 -0600 > >I have 5 next cubes, 2 slabs (mono), 2 keyboards, and 1 monitor (dont know >if it works). I have some other stuff too, so if you want we can kind of >fish through the stuff and see what works. 1 of the cubes doesnt have >anything in it, 3 are cubes, and one is a computer (all the cubes are >upgraded computers... just for those of you who might be confused, the >computer was the 68030 that came in the cube shaped case, and the cube was >the 68040 that came out later but still in the same style case). I also >have 4 printers (I can part with two of them), but need to make sure they >work. I also have a set of openstep documents (I'll be getting the >software soon). Most of the cubes have hd's, some dont, and some have >magneto drives and some dont... so first come first serve. I'm asking 60 >for the cubes, 50 for the computer, and 35 for the empty case. send an >e-mail to jon@slurpee.org if you're interested, and let me know if you >need any other next stuff as I find it often. > >Thanks, >jon -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jan 20 19:00:56 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 References: Message-ID: <001301c1a217$15562840$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Sadly, I've found a few weaknesses in the VERITAS solution. It's almost to the point of reaching 10% of success, though no other Windows software, I've had so far has gotten that far. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Chase" To: Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 1:58 PM Subject: Re: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 > On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > What I'm after, of course, is scheduled backup that doesn't require > > any human interaction at all, other than daily removal of the backup > > media from the previous backup. > > Get a Mac! Had to be said, even if it's more or less irrelevant here. > > Actually, the recommendation of smbfs mounting Windows shares from the > Win98 system over the network is a really good idea. At least if you've > got a spare PC with a NIC and SCSI for the tape device, and if you're > looking to do this cheaply. In fact, the idea is so good, there should > probably be a single disk bootable backup server solution that works > like this. It'd be trivial to setup automated backup schedules using > the cron daemon. > There's a Netware-based solution that came with my AHA3985 that shows some promise. I may get around to it some day. > > The only backup software I've administered that works well with PCs > would be Veritas NetBackup and Tivoli's TSM (previously IBM's ADSM). > Of course that was with backup client software running on the PCs and > Unix based backup servers that actually performed the tape I/O. Both of > these solutions are well out of the price and feature range of your > average home users. > > -brian. > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jan 20 19:06:43 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 References: <3C4B36EF.6040607@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <001901c1a217$e46730c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Clearly you won't be running Windows ... so there are numerous very adequate backup programs, most of which would make short work of the 165 MB with an adequate tape drive. My little EXB8200 would back that up, verify it, and keep a file-by-file directory of the DOS files in about 25 minutes, I'd guess. The EXB-8500C would do it in about 10 minutes on media costing about $3, with room for several (~15) backups. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Hudson" To: Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 2:30 PM Subject: Re: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 > The windows 98 backup ploy did not work, I was finally able > to copy all of the needed dlls, then when the backup software > was launched, it ran for a moment then quietly quit. > > I am currently trying the ASPITAPE.SYS and PCTAR.EXE as > suggested by John Foust. > > I do have a DOS diskette that I can boot with that has > all the Adaptec drivers and Syquest junk. > > Here's the rundown of the machine: > 486 66 DX cpu with 16mb memory > 165 mb SCSI hard drive internal > 40 mb SCSI Syquest drive internal > 640x480 16 color video > SCSI CDROM external > Tanberg TDC3800 SCSI tape external. > 5.25 & 3.5 combined floppy disks. > > Sweet "lunchbox Style" case. > > I have pictures, can I attach them to an > email to the list? > > > From allain at panix.com Sun Jan 20 19:18:59 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 References: <3C4B36EF.6040607@cnonline.net> <001901c1a217$e46730c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <0bbd01c1a219$9b5e1180$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> You sure your problems aren't with Exabyte? An MITechie where I used to work would refer to Exabytes saying "Tape error, screw you" IE, the error recovery it had was nonexistant ot very poor. John A. From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jan 20 22:07:37 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 References: <3C4B36EF.6040607@cnonline.net> <001901c1a217$e46730c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <0bbd01c1a219$9b5e1180$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <000901c1a231$29764ac0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I don't think so ... I've been using Exabyte drives for about 12 years now and while I've had a few of them break over the years, I've never had an incident of wierd or unpredictable behavior of any sort. I've had a few read errors, and with over 250 drives "out there" being used every day, I've had no complaints about performance or reliability. What's more, I'm not silly enough to rely on experience drawn from only one manufacturer's product. I've tried the various Win9x backup programs with drives from Tandberg, Wangtek, Seagate, Iomega, Sony, Archive, and a few others I can't recall at the moment. I've also tried devices other than tape. I've tried Worm drives ... but nothing seems to work particularly well with Win9x. The MITechie should probably have stopped smoking that rope long enough to straighten out for a moment and read the documentation that comes with the drives. Had he done so, he'd have known about the extensive and verbose error reporting that's available and the thorough test and verification procedures the mfg. provides. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 6:18 PM Subject: Re: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 > You sure your problems aren't with Exabyte? > An MITechie where I used to work would > refer to Exabytes saying "Tape error, screw you" > IE, the error recovery it had was nonexistant ot > very poor. > > John A. > > > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jan 21 00:28:45 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 In-Reply-To: <000901c1a231$29764ac0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > The MITechie should probably have stopped smoking that rope long enough to > straighten out for a moment and read the documentation that comes with the > drives. Had he done so, he'd have known about the extensive and verbose error > reporting that's available and the thorough test and verification procedures > the mfg. provides. And he probably shouldn't have believed the media manufacturers' claims concerning tape life. Outside of Windows, 95% of the failed restores I've seen were due to worn-out media (or dirty heads). IIRC, Maxell claims something like 100 overwrites for their 8mm tape. I'm rotating cartridges out after 20 overwrites, at the most. Tape's a lot cheaper than data. Doc From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Jan 20 19:09:59 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 References: Message-ID: <3C4B6A67.9080704@cnonline.net> Ok, aspitape did not recognize my tape drive. So at this point I am going to go with the "Back up to the Samba server and thence (??) to tape via my regular linux backups" plan. I give up... Brian Chase wrote: > On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Ron Hudson wrote: > > >> I do have a DOS diskette that I can boot with that has >> all the Adaptec drivers and Syquest junk. >> >> Here's the rundown of the machine: >> 486 66 DX cpu with 16mb memory >> 165 mb SCSI hard drive internal >> 40 mb SCSI Syquest drive internal >> 640x480 16 color video >> SCSI CDROM external >> Tanberg TDC3800 SCSI tape external. >> 5.25 & 3.5 combined floppy disks. > > > Are the disk drives and the SCSI tape device on the same controller? > And if so, what's the controller type? I missed it if you've mentioned > it already. It's possible that the SCSI bus is getting saturated, > and I doubt Win95 does little to aid the situation with intelligent > handling of I/O. > > -brian. Brian, cd, syquest, main hard drive and tape are all on one scsi bus. and the floppy drive connects to ports on the SCSI controller. (an adaptec aha1542 i think). The tape drive is comming off and perhaps will be replaced with an auxillary hard drive.. I do have a Teac tape drive but those data cassette tapes (looks like a audio cassette tape but with a notch taken out of the "oposite of heads" side) are expensive and don't hold much. Who knows perhaps I will LINUX the machine next week... ;^) ron From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jan 20 19:12:12 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 References: Message-ID: <001f01c1a218$a84e40a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> That system's so small, he should have no trouble getting by without Win9x. If the drive has only 165 MB, it's unlikely Win9x will fit comfortably. I've had the setup program complain that it needed 240 MB to install. The trick I use is DOSLFNBK + DOS backup utility. It works fine and wouldn't be so slow that, on a small box like this one, it would take objectionably long. I doubt the problem is with the SCSI bus getting saturated. ON a little system like this one, it won't be utilized that heavily. Backup will move data at about 10-20 MB/sec on a slow, cheap adapter, e.g. ADAPTEC AHA1522, etc. With a '486 and an old drive like that one, it probably can't go much faster regardless of the controller. One with DMA capability might perform better than one using programmable I/O, however. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Chase" To: Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 3:14 PM Subject: Re: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 > On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Ron Hudson wrote: > > > I do have a DOS diskette that I can boot with that has > > all the Adaptec drivers and Syquest junk. > > > > Here's the rundown of the machine: > > 486 66 DX cpu with 16mb memory > > 165 mb SCSI hard drive internal > > 40 mb SCSI Syquest drive internal > > 640x480 16 color video > > SCSI CDROM external > > Tanberg TDC3800 SCSI tape external. > > 5.25 & 3.5 combined floppy disks. > > Are the disk drives and the SCSI tape device on the same controller? > And if so, what's the controller type? I missed it if you've mentioned > it already. It's possible that the SCSI bus is getting saturated, > and I doubt Win95 does little to aid the situation with intelligent > handling of I/O. > > -brian. > > From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Jan 21 00:02:10 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 In-Reply-To: <000901c1a1ee$6d95b260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020120215623.02fc3ec0@mail.zipcon.net> At 01:09 PM 1/20/02 -0700, you wrote: >IIRC, GHOST has the problem that it won't deal directly with large drives, and >that it expects to deal with media essentially identical to what's being >backed up. I don't have a removable media disk drive with 100 GB capacity >yet, but since there are problems with disks for backup under WIndows anyway, >I'll have to wait for something for TAPE or DVD-R to come out. Um, Ghost works fine here on > 40 gig drives. if I want to make a safe backup, I image partitions/ discs to my server and then burn out a spanned CD set or a set of tapes. I backup under win2K Using a DLT 2000 drive and Veritas (formerly Seagate) backup. I have YET to have any problems reading backup media from one drive to another. >What I'm after, of course, is scheduled backup that doesn't require any human >interaction at all, other than daily removal of the backup media from the >previous backup. Ghost isn't really designed for unattended use, and it's not a backup program as such, it is designed to image HD's for restoration to a new HD or to install one copy of an OS on one machine and blow copies out onto a boatload of other machines. The biggest problems with the Dos/Win backup software that shipped with dos and win95 / 98 is that the compression method changed between dos 6.0 and 6.22 (can you say Stac, Inc. lawsuit) and then it changed again for the win95 and 98 versions... tape drive support was an afterthought on those also, it was designed to back up to floppy discs. for good tape support you needed to upgrade to backup express (the retail version from seagate, now veritas) From clascmp at highgate.comm.sfu.ca Sun Jan 20 19:07:23 2002 From: clascmp at highgate.comm.sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: Looking for a CR11 manual In-Reply-To: <3C3CBE39.F759E125@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200201210107.g0L17P645574@highgate.comm.sfu.ca> Hi Ed: I have a manual for the CR11. I can make you a copy. I have been looking for a card reader for years. Want to sell yours??? Let me know your address, I'll make you a copy. Kevin > Hello All, > > Is there someone on the list who can supply me with a photocopy of the > wiring diagram > of the cable used between the reader and the interface? I need to > fabricate the cable. > > If you have some punched cards as well to spare that would be great! > > Thanks, > > Ed > > -- > The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. > quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers > http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. > Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Kilometerheffing : De overheid > '97 TL1000S | weet waar je bent geweest! > -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Sun Jan 20 19:23:54 2002 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: Looking for a CR11 manual In-Reply-To: <3C3CBE39.F759E125@xs4all.nl> from "The Wanderer" at Jan 09, 2002 11:03:37 PM Message-ID: <200201210123.RAA26718@fraser.sfu.ca> Hi Ed: Me again. I contacted you from my classicmp list account. Best to reply here so your message doesn't get lost in the noise of the list. I can copy cabling diagram or entire manual as desired. Kevin > > Hello All, > > Is there someone on the list who can supply me with a photocopy of the > wiring diagram > of the cable used between the reader and the interface? I need to > fabricate the cable. > > If you have some punched cards as well to spare that would be great! > > Thanks, > > Ed > > -- > The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. > quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers > http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. > Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Kilometerheffing : De overheid > '97 TL1000S | weet waar je bent geweest! > > -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From tarsi at binhost.com Sun Jan 20 21:16:29 2002 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: Stan Veit's History of the PC Books - Blow Out - $4 Shipped! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02012021162901.03985@simon> This is an EXCELLENT book, I very much enjoyed it. Highly recommended and the $4 for the book and ship is a steal. Tarsi 210 From geoffr at zipcon.net Sun Jan 20 23:54:40 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: TTi 8510 tape drive In-Reply-To: <3C4B10E5.A14F8AF1@sk.sympatico.ca> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020120215259.0282ec50@mail.zipcon.net> It's pretty much just an Exabyte 8500 in a fancy extranl case, isn't it? I have a TTi 8210 and that's all it is.... At 12:48 PM 1/20/02 -0600, you wrote: >Can't find the TTi (tape drive) system site? Did they go away? > >Anyone have a pointer to an 8510 manual or an electronic copy? > >thanks >rod From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Jan 21 00:20:27 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: TTi 8510 tape drive In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020120215259.0282ec50@mail.zipcon.net> References: <3C4B10E5.A14F8AF1@sk.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020120222010.03ff9ac0@mail.zipcon.net> BTW, Transitional Technology seems to be nonexistant :( At 09:54 PM 1/20/02 -0800, you wrote: >It's pretty much just an Exabyte 8500 in a fancy extranl case, isn't >it? I have a TTi 8210 and that's all it is.... > >At 12:48 PM 1/20/02 -0600, you wrote: >>Can't find the TTi (tape drive) system site? Did they go away? >> >>Anyone have a pointer to an 8510 manual or an electronic copy? >> >>thanks >>rod > From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 21 02:32:53 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. In-Reply-To: <001f01c1a233$cfd725e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, John Allain wrote: > Oops, I may have missed something. > If you need a single output wart of less than 1A I probably have > a spare and will take off list e-quests. The wall-wart I mentioned is a 9V 1000ma. I'm not worried about finding a replacement. If someone comes across an original USRobotics one they don't need, I'd be willing to pay shipping tho. Speaking of USRobotics power supplies, does anyone have a couple loose power supplies for the older Courier modems? These are very well made bricks and have a din output connector on their cable. -Toth From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Jan 20 17:50:55 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: OT?: Iomega auction in SF Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020120174652.023b1c70@pc> A "$12 million" auction of Iomega's old factory equipment. The preliminary manifest shows a nice assortment of test equipment... http://www.charynauctions.com/upcoming/iomega_home.htm - John From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 21 03:22:12 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > Speaking of USRobotics power supplies, does anyone have a couple loose > power supplies for the older Courier modems? These are very well made > bricks and have a din output connector on their cable. Oops, actually thats a mini-din output connector. -Toth From alan.pearson at cramer.com Mon Jan 21 04:02:45 2002 From: alan.pearson at cramer.com (Alan Pearson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: VAXstation newbie Message-ID: After 13 years off I'm finally going to get to play with a VAX again (the last system I used was an 11/785!) - I've found a VAXstation 3100, and it should be landing on my doorstep in the next week :) Happy happy happy! Finding a VAX that's small enough for "Al's Toy Barn" hasn't been easy, they don't seem to be that common here in the UK (UK classiccmpers correct me if I'm wrong, and please point me in the right direction ;-)). A couple of "newbie" VAXish questions: The box I'm getting is just that - no monitor/keyboard/mouse etc - I've read that you can use the printer port for the console so I'm planning using that. I'm not bothered about using DECwindows, console is just fine thanks ;-) Since I don't have any "real" terminals I've got various options.. the most likely is to use my ST's VT52 emulator (got to keep it "classic"!) - anyone tried this? Other options are to use the TERMINAL package on one of my BBC Masters, hook it up to the Linux box, or use the Windows terminal emulator. I guess I need a null modem cable to hook the 3100 up to whatever I'm using for the terminal, right? There's no backup media for the OS - any ideas where I'd get VMS on floppies? (It has a floppy drive, no CD). Or do I need to hook up a CD? Also, does anyone know what version of VMS shipped with the 3100s? Cheers Al. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Mon Jan 21 04:45:24 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: VAXstation newbie Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662FA@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> Alan Pearson wrote: >Finding a VAX that's small enough for "Al's Toy Barn" hasn't been easy, they >don't seem to be that common here in the UK (UK classiccmpers correct me if >I'm wrong, and please point me in the right direction ;-)). I occasionally come across them via newsgroups; they also crop up on ebay. They aren't *that* hard to find. >The box I'm getting is just that - no monitor/keyboard/mouse etc - I've read >that you can use the printer port for the console so I'm planning using Correct. Flip up S3 at the back. if you have the original case style then the switch is not exposed externally and you have to remove the case to get to it. >emulator. I guess I need a null modem cable to hook the 3100 up to whatever >I'm using for the terminal, right? Yes. I forget if it's MMJ or DB25 but the details should be in the OpenVMS FAQ anyway. >There's no backup media for the OS - any ideas where I'd get VMS on >floppies? You jest :-) >(It has a floppy drive, no CD). Or do I need to hook up a CD? Hook up a CD and get a hobbyist licence. Then you can borrow media from anyone. >Also, does anyone know what version of VMS shipped with the 3100s? The first version of VMS to support the VS3100s was V5.1B. Antonio arcarlini@iee.org From David.Neal at ubsw.com Mon Jan 21 05:08:27 2002 From: David.Neal at ubsw.com (David.Neal@ubsw.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: VAXstation newbie Message-ID: Hi Al, I highly doubt you can get the software on floppies, but I'm usually proved wrong, so best of luck. CD is the way to go but not all 3100's had SCSI as standard ( at least as an external option. Apart fromthat you're probably looking at TK tape. Versions varied, long production run, but the most usual was a 5.5, usually rev 2 or better. I had mine hooked up to PC serial port running ( origianlly ) winterm, followed by a linux box too. Bonus of course being it you network it together you can have your DECWindows too, depends on how grunty your system is. Best of luck with it, give me a shout if you run into any issues ( mmm, need to dig VAXen out and play again ;-) ) Cheers Dave Visit our website at http://www.ubswarburg.com This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. 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From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Mon Jan 21 05:44:31 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: VAXstation newbie Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021A47@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: David.Neal@ubsw.com [mailto:David.Neal@ubsw.com] > Sent: 21 January 2002 11:08 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: VAXstation newbie > > > Hi Al, > > I highly doubt you can get the software on floppies, but I'm usually > proved wrong, so best of luck. CD is the way to go but not all 3100's > had SCSI as standard ( at least as an external option. Apart fromthat > you're probably looking at TK tape. Versions varied, long production > run, but the most usual was a 5.5, usually rev 2 or better. ISTR No VMS distro was available on floppy, the only VMS floppies I can remember were boot disks for MicroVMS round V4.x. Also, all 3100s have SCSI as standard, the only differences were the type of SCSI connector that was presented externally. Older machines had the female HD68 connector...... CDs were available for 5.4-2 and above I believe; I'm pretty sure I've got most versions from then upwards. a From quapla at xs4all.nl Mon Jan 21 04:50:09 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (quapla@xs4all.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: Intresting device for sale Message-ID: <20456.210.138.200.5.1011610209.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> For an unusual device, look at this intresting ebay item. No, I'm not the one selling it. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1693885087 Ed From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 21 07:11:54 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: Amdek Color-1 Plus service manual Message-ID: Does anyone have a service manual for the Amdek Color-1 Plus monitor? I'm getting ready to rebuild one of these monitors, and would like to have a manual on hand if one is available. -Toth From paul at wccnet.org Mon Jan 21 08:51:26 2002 From: paul at wccnet.org (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: Security bits Message-ID: I purchased a 33 piece security bit set from Radio Shack for $8 last May. They had to order it and it cost me $2.50 more for delivery. I just checked www.radioshack.com and I found it for $13 in the tools section (catalog number 910-5247). The URL is http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F005%5F005%5F007%5F000&product%5Fid=910%2D5247 Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA From rhblakeman at kih.net Mon Jan 21 09:20:00 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: Security bits In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Same bit set I've bought from MCM. I think that I too paid around $8 for it but of course I paid shipping but I combine tool orders with customer orders so they pay the way when I need tools/parts for myself (except when my part is the bulk of the load). -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Paul R. Santa-Maria Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 8:51 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Security bits I purchased a 33 piece security bit set from Radio Shack for $8 last May. They had to order it and it cost me $2.50 more for delivery. I just checked www.radioshack.com and I found it for $13 in the tools section (catalog number 910-5247). The URL is http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CT LG%5F005%5F005%5F007%5F000&product%5Fid=910%2D5247 Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jan 21 09:34:38 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020120215623.02fc3ec0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <001501c1a291$235f72a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Frankly, I don't remember exactly what the reason was, why I rejected Ghost for backup applications. However, the point I've been trying to get at is that it's not so much that various tape drives, or the SCSI subsystem interface, don't work properly, but, rather, that the OS doesn't seem to support non-disk storage devices very well, and that ALL the backup applications seem to suffer from the same set of problems. In one case, the application's assessment of the target disk drive was several orders of magnitude off the mark, while, in others, the task seems never to end, in some cases. Getting the restore operation to work is another problem. Under Win9x, tape backup applications, and not just in the context of SCSI tape drives, seem to have difficulty in reading their own writing. I have no idea why this might be, but I've observed it in case after case. Win9x's predisposition to marking every disk drive it "sees" is sufficient reason not to use disk devices for backup. While nothing prevents tape from storing a virus that's recorded on the drive being backed up, it is protected from infection by executable viruses by the fact that the tape content is never executed as part of the backup/restore cycle. Likewise, recordable DVD-R's hold out some promise, though they're too limited in capacity to serve for full system backup on most modern systems. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Reed" To: Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 11:02 PM Subject: Re: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 > At 01:09 PM 1/20/02 -0700, you wrote: > >IIRC, GHOST has the problem that it won't deal directly with large drives, and > >that it expects to deal with media essentially identical to what's being > >backed up. I don't have a removable media disk drive with 100 GB capacity > >yet, but since there are problems with disks for backup under WIndows anyway, > >I'll have to wait for something for TAPE or DVD-R to come out. > > Um, Ghost works fine here on > 40 gig drives. if I want to make a safe > backup, I image partitions/ discs to my server and then burn out a spanned > CD set or a set of tapes. I backup under win2K Using a DLT 2000 drive and > Veritas (formerly Seagate) backup. I have YET to have any problems reading > backup media from one drive to another. > > >What I'm after, of course, is scheduled backup that doesn't require any human > >interaction at all, other than daily removal of the backup media from the > >previous backup. > > Ghost isn't really designed for unattended use, and it's not a backup > program as such, it is designed to image HD's for restoration to a new HD > or to install one copy of an OS on one machine and blow copies out onto a > boatload of other machines. > I seem to remember something along those lines. I think it expects to find a target drive identical to the one being replicated, too, which limits its usefulness for system backup. > > The biggest problems with the Dos/Win backup software that shipped with dos > and win95 / 98 is that the compression method changed between dos 6.0 and > 6.22 (can you say Stac, Inc. lawsuit) and then it changed again for the > win95 and 98 versions... tape drive support was an afterthought on those > also, it was designed to back up to floppy discs. for good tape support > you needed to upgrade to backup express (the retail version from seagate, > now veritas) > I've bought all the Seagate/Veritas backup software I'm going to buy until I see a case of their stuff working properly. So far, I've yet to see a Seagate/Veritas product that works beyond the GUI, and while they look good, I've got to see function. I have a client with about 150 essentially identical systems that have to be backed up every week, and that's shown me that the majority of backup applications (100% of the ones I've tried) suffer from the same set of weaknesses. I can't say with confidence that it's the OS or that it's the simple incogruity between the terms "software" and "engineering" but I think it lies somewhere between those. It's probably well to keep in mind that the backup provided with Win98 is a Seagate product that M$ bought from them. It looks suspiciously like the early "Backup Executive" product, which didn't work particularly well, and, quite stupidly, opened new files on the system drive, thereby rendering it incapable of a successful backup of that drive. There's clearly a weakness in the OS relating to the SCSI subsystem. One way in which this shows up is that the OS recognizes and lists a drive it sees on the SCSI chain, yet fails to make it available for the backup program. This is really frustrating when one knows a drive to be fully functional and routinely uses it under DOS and NT, yet can't use it with Win9x. Dick > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jan 21 09:43:22 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 References: Message-ID: <001f01c1a292$5b7f9f60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'm still using, regularly, and daily, the same tapes that I started using back in '90-'91 when I started using Exabyte drives. I use SONY, DIC, Exabyte (really pbl SONY) Maxell, Verbatim, and other makers' tapes, and, aside from tapes damaged in drives with defective BOT/EOT sensors, I've not lost a single tape in over a decade. I do complete system backups on my system, via the LAN, every day. This requires two tapes, which I manage by using two drives. I've been using the same tapes for my dailies since day 1, though I do weeklies and monthlies on other tapes, and, in fact, using different drives. YMMV, I guess, but I think I've exceeded the 100 overwrites claim on many of my tapes. So far, the only tape I've been unable to use to recover data on it has been one that my dog ate when she was a puppy. I removed the tape and installed it in an undamaged cartridge and did find a couple of files I couldn't recover. There may have been others, since there were certainly unreadable segments (where there were holes in the tape). I don't think the media maker will take responsibility for that. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc" To: Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 11:28 PM Subject: Re: ot... at it again scsi tape drive in windows 95 > On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > The MITechie should probably have stopped smoking that rope long enough to > > straighten out for a moment and read the documentation that comes with the > > drives. Had he done so, he'd have known about the extensive and verbose error > > reporting that's available and the thorough test and verification procedures > > the mfg. provides. > > And he probably shouldn't have believed the media manufacturers' > claims concerning tape life. Outside of Windows, 95% of the failed > restores I've seen were due to worn-out media (or dirty heads). IIRC, > Maxell claims something like 100 overwrites for their 8mm tape. I'm > rotating cartridges out after 20 overwrites, at the most. Tape's a lot > cheaper than data. > > Doc > > From allain at panix.com Mon Jan 21 10:06:30 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: VAXstation newbie References: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021A47@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> Message-ID: <005a01c1a295$96efa880$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >> There's no backup media for the OS... > all 3100s have SCSI as standard... I found someone relatively close by to where I live who has one or two spare TK50Z-GA's that I believe might (anybody know?) get a VMS tape in on 3100 SCSI. It was a pretty good find. A CD drive Still might be your better choice. John A. From pb at Colorado.EDU Mon Jan 21 10:32:28 2002 From: pb at Colorado.EDU (pb@Colorado.EDU) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: Wanted: manual for Toshiba T4800CT docking station Message-ID: <200201211632.g0LGWSW29271@morse.Colorado.EDU> Hi. I'm wondering if anyone has any documentation for the docking station for a Toshiba T4800CT laptop. I'm embarassed to admit that I can't even figure out how to access the drive bay on the station. For those of you with extensive collections (or access to extensive documentation libraries), the part number for the docking station is PA2701U, and it's called a "Desk Station IV." Thanks in advance. PB Schechter From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Jan 21 10:45:47 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (update) Message-ID: Toth asked: >Are there 3 indentations around the edges of the fasteners? If so, these >could be a type of Japanese fastener often found in mid '80s to early '90s >video game systems. Bits that fit those kinds of fasteners are available, >at about $1.50-$2 each, and they come in 2 different sizes. Hmmm - will look again. I was specifically looking for anything I could get purchase on to turn the things, though, and did not see it. --------------- Tony said: >Hnag on... I thought it was one printhead heater that was out. In which >case it's likely that 8 of the 9 transistors are still fine. Right ... but I don't know which one. I was hoping to end up unsoldering them all, and finding the bad one by the first-order test, then putting all but that one back and ordering a single replacement. In which case I might as well start off with just the four I couldn't get my VOM onto during the in-use testing I tried. I did not count on destroying components as I pulled them, however. Glad I only tried 4. ..."heater?" IIRC, Pete said these transistors work up to 100 MHz and they are being used to drive *heaters?* Does that mean the other 17 or so connections to the print head carry the which-pixel information and whatever (piezoelectric?) pulse it takes to actually send out the squirt of ink? Oy. Or are there 8 heaters and one for the jet pulse, and the thin 17 carry the jet-selection info? Maybe I am going to be be interested enough to trace this whole circuit out. Or maybe I should just shred one of the print heads to see what's inside it. >Do you know >if you tested one that was related to the dead row of pixels? No. I *thought* so, from the in-operation tests and locations on the ribbon-cable connector, but since I still have not got the PS working, I can't confirm that by trying to print again with the 4 transistors removed - which is the only way I'd believe at this point. BTW, would *that* toast anything? >It won't be. A diode junction is not an ohmic conductor, and there's no >reason why it should show the same 'resistance' under different test >conditions (such as changing the range on the VOM). Figured, which is why I put quotation marks around "resistance". >In the end it'll be to a +ve supply line, but there might be other >transistors or current sensing circuitry in the way. However, since this >is common to all pixels, it's not a problem (yet). 'cause I haven't tried to test or disassemble it (yet) >:-) >Probably resistors (read the numbers like you would the numbers on a >capacitor -- so 151 -> 15*10^1 = 150 Ohms, and so on). I'd expect a >resistor from base to emitter and another resistor from base to some kind >of open-collector output (maybe a discrete transistor, maybe a chip). I'll check, but that's consistent with what I've seen so far, I think. >The fault, of course, might be further back in the circuitry, so you >might have to trace out this array of components. More havoc to wreak... >Any depressions in those heads at all? Any way a tool could engage with them? I don't think so. I'll have one more look before I try the soldering iron (didn't get to it this weekend). >Oh, it can't be that complicated. After all, there are likely to be 9 >identical stages. I would conentrate on the base of the power >transistors. What connects there, what does it connect to. I don't see 9 identical groups of components anywhere else. There are several large DIP packages, one of which I'll bet I run into on the far side of the surface-mount things. >This 'surface mount array' : What does it contain? Any more transistors? >Any open-collector driver chips nearby? The only things I saw were the little (?) resistors described earlier. I didn't look at the chips nearby - I'll try that next chance I get. >Unlikely. The voltage is not going to damage parts of this printer, or >any other classic computer you're likely to be working on. OK, that's reassuring. ----------- And I have an offer of a replacement wall-wart and PCB coming from a very kind list member. Not an exact match PCB, which could lead to more fun still, but we'll see. - Mark From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jan 21 11:28:10 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: How much? Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E148@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com] > I've got modern Alphas. Crays too. That's not the point. :) Crays? That would be nice. Anyone have an EL 92 they'd like to get rid of? ;) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jan 21 11:56:03 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: RE: How much? (Christopher Smith) References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E148@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <15436.22067.914932.715057@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 21, Christopher Smith wrote: > > I've got modern Alphas. Crays too. That's not the point. :) > > Crays? That would be nice. Anyone have an EL 92 they'd like to get rid of? ;) I've got an EL92...Not sure if I'd be willing to get rid of it though. Of course, money talks. :) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From jss at subatomix.com Mon Jan 21 12:07:42 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: Intresting device for sale In-Reply-To: <20456.210.138.200.5.1011610209.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20020121115915.G11779-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 quapla@xs4all.nl wrote: > For an unusual device, look at this intresting ebay item. No, I'm not > the one selling it. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1693885087 I like the category: Everything Else : Weird Stuff : Really Weird I wonder how the 'Really Weird' subcategory differs from its siblings, 'Slightly Unusual' and 'Totally Bizarre'. The item does remind me of what was left of the emergency light that unexpectedly exploded in my office when I worked for Saxon Publishers. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Jan 21 12:28:56 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: How much? References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E148@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> <15436.22067.914932.715057@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3C4C5DE8.A528A452@jetnet.ab.ca> Dave McGuire wrote: > I've got an EL92...Not sure if I'd be willing to get rid of it though. > Of course, money talks. :) All my money ever says is "Bye Bye". :) -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Jan 21 12:51:18 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: New VAXARCHIVE mirror: http://vaxarchive.vax.org Message-ID: New VAXARCHIVE mirror: http://vaxarchive.vax.org This is a second mirror of Kees Stravers' original vaxarchive.org site (no longer operational). The primary mirror has been up and running at http://vaxarchive.sevensages.org for a number of years, but it's always nice to have more than one source for elusive yet indispensable information. The other mirrors, http://vaxarchive.decvax.org and http://vaxarchive.khubla.com, are no longer available. You will find that some of the VAXARCHIVE content is a bit dusty, and quite a few of the links which head off-site are dead. Still there's much useful information contained within, and oddly a lot of it isn't VAX specific. -brian. From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jan 21 13:09:59 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: RT 6150 Docs (and mouse??) Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E14D@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Doc Shipley [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > The guy who's giving it away says he "has no boot disk, but > it starts > up just fine."!? He also thinks it has 3 drives and is maxed out on Could mean he has no distribution media, but there's an installed O/S... Also note that early version of AIX were much more like "something strange" than they were like normal Unix. From what I've heard they may be quite a bit different from new versions. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From CLeyson at aol.com Mon Jan 21 13:20:18 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: Electronics and Technology Cosmos International Message-ID: Today whilst picking up a copy of Wireless World I noticed a new publication. "Electronics and Technology Cosmos International" Editor Constantine Delenardo 196 High Road, Wood Green, London N22 8HH So what I here you say. Well, the January edition is 72 pages of electronics with no adverts, not even one. There is no mention of a publisher and Google turned up zip. Has anyone else seen this on the news stands ? Topics covered: Going from Dual to single supply op amp operation Low voltage logic Families and Mixed Voltage Interfacing Techniques. Part 1 Data Interface Standards. Part 1. Introduction to the Theory and Design of Audio Power Amplifiers. Part 1 Cache Memory for Computer Systems. Part 1 Charge Pumps Simplify Portable Designs Simplified Bipolar Transistor Models & how to use them It is very well written and provides a clear introduction to basic principles. Rather than practical articles it seems to be more of a reference book with a lot of worked examples. Definitely worth a read. Chris From m_asifmangel at hotmail.com Mon Jan 21 13:28:36 2002 From: m_asifmangel at hotmail.com (M.ASIF MANGEL) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: No subject Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020121/830fac7e/attachment.html From djenner at earthlink.net Mon Jan 21 14:17:17 2002 From: djenner at earthlink.net (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:49 2005 Subject: ASUS ISA-486SI Motherboard BIOS Message-ID: <3C4C774D.7282ED5C@earthlink.net> I think this just makes the "10 year rule". I have an ASUS ISA-486SI motherboard, Copyright 1992. I have the manual for it. The manual does NOT describe any sort of BIOS upgrade, such as reflashing it, like later boards in my collection do. All the ASUS Web sites and a Google search reveal no BIOS upgrading information. Was this too early for BIOS reflashing? The BIOS is not Y2K compliant. It appears to work OK when I set the current date/time, and when I turn it OFF/ON, it retains the current date >2000 without problem. Anyone have any experience with this motherboard? It was my original 486 back in 1992, but I haven't used it for over two years. Dave -- David C. Jenner djenner@earthlink.net From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 21 14:34:28 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: ASUS ISA-486SI Motherboard BIOS In-Reply-To: <3C4C774D.7282ED5C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, David C. Jenner wrote: > I think this just makes the "10 year rule". Maybe, still somewhat OT I think tho. > Was this too early for BIOS reflashing? The BIOS is not > Y2K compliant. It appears to work OK when I set the > current date/time, and when I turn it OFF/ON, it retains > the current date >2000 without problem. > > Anyone have any experience with this motherboard? It was > my original 486 back in 1992, but I haven't used it for > over two years. Many of these shipped with PROM chips installed. If you can find a more recent BIOS version, you can program an EPROM chip to take the place of the PROM. I've had to do this for a number of 486 class boards. -Toth From cswiger at widomaker.com Mon Jan 21 15:12:48 2002 From: cswiger at widomaker.com (Chuck Swiger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: How do I startup this PDP10 with TOPS 10/20 ?? Message-ID: <4.3.1.1.20020121154819.00bbab20@192.168.0.134> This PDP10 simulator that is ;) I'm hacking on the simh ( http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ ) and have the pdp10 module compiled and running a-ok. Also looking at the PDP10 Software kit ( http://old-pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/ ) but I'm rather clueless where to even begin. Everything in the TOPS-10 table are *.tap tapes, one is tagged "BOOTABLE". I d/l that, attach it to TU0 and boot TU0. Nothing happens but when I stop the sim it reports: Simulation stopped, PC: 000000 (000000000011) Another one marked TOPS-10 7.03 KS Bootable tape I just tried, with similar results. Any hints on where to start exploring or should I just give this up as hopelessly impossible w/o a wall of orange books and years of experience?? Thanks Chuck cswiger@widomaker.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jan 21 15:25:28 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: How do I startup this PDP10 with TOPS 10/20 ?? In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Swiger" at Jan 21, 2002 04:12:48 PM Message-ID: <200201212125.g0LLPTB06169@shell1.aracnet.com> Your first stop should be my web site. http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/pdp10emu.html It has links to everything you need. For DEC emulation in general see: http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/decemu.html Zane > > This PDP10 simulator that is ;) > > I'm hacking on the simh ( http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ ) and have > the pdp10 module compiled and running a-ok. Also looking at the > PDP10 Software kit ( http://old-pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/ ) but I'm > rather clueless where to even begin. Everything in the TOPS-10 > table are *.tap tapes, one is tagged "BOOTABLE". I d/l that, attach > it to TU0 and boot TU0. Nothing happens but when I stop the sim > it reports: Simulation stopped, PC: 000000 (000000000011) > > Another one marked TOPS-10 7.03 KS Bootable tape I just tried, > with similar results. > > Any hints on where to start exploring or should I just give this up > as hopelessly impossible w/o a wall of orange books and years > of experience?? > > Thanks > > Chuck > cswiger@widomaker.com > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 21 16:06:25 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: ASUS ISA-486SI Motherboard BIOS In-Reply-To: "David C. Jenner" "ASUS ISA-486SI Motherboard BIOS" (Jan 21, 12:17) References: <3C4C774D.7282ED5C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <10201212206.ZM11814@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 21, 12:17, David C. Jenner wrote: > I have an ASUS ISA-486SI motherboard, Copyright 1992. > I have the manual for it. The manual does NOT describe > any sort of BIOS upgrade, such as reflashing it, like later > boards in my collection do. I've not seen any 486 of that era with flash. More likely a PROM. > The BIOS is not > Y2K compliant. It appears to work OK when I set the > current date/time, and when I turn it OFF/ON, it retains > the current date >2000 without problem. Is that a typo? If you can set dates after 1999 and it retains them, and gets leap years correct, what's the problem? My 1993 Phoenix BIOS (EPROM, not flash) is fine, for example. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rhblakeman at kih.net Mon Jan 21 17:01:37 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: ASUS ISA-486SI Motherboard BIOS In-Reply-To: <3C4C774D.7282ED5C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: ASUS.com has links to all of their maiboards, just have to take the time and locat ewhat you need - all in PDF. There should be a model number screened on the board around the slots area. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of David C. Jenner Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 2:17 PM To: Classic Computer Mailing List Subject: ASUS ISA-486SI Motherboard BIOS I think this just makes the "10 year rule". I have an ASUS ISA-486SI motherboard, Copyright 1992. I have the manual for it. The manual does NOT describe any sort of BIOS upgrade, such as reflashing it, like later boards in my collection do. All the ASUS Web sites and a Google search reveal no BIOS upgrading information. Was this too early for BIOS reflashing? The BIOS is not Y2K compliant. It appears to work OK when I set the current date/time, and when I turn it OFF/ON, it retains the current date >2000 without problem. Anyone have any experience with this motherboard? It was my original 486 back in 1992, but I haven't used it for over two years. Dave -- David C. Jenner djenner@earthlink.net From rhblakeman at kih.net Mon Jan 21 17:01:38 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm guessing this is a PLC board made by Motorola? I used to have a tech contact a few years ago for their PLC controller division but have since misplaced it and other than digging for a Motorola support number I'm not sure how much you'll find on this on the net. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of M.ASIF MANGEL Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 1:29 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Hello!! We have MVME 117A Motorola board installed on Variatex 2500 round knitting machine (Italian origin) which is malfunctioning. Of course operating but demaning extra voltage than the specifications. And after some period stability again demands more voltage. We asked the company to replace it but the manufacturer of the machine have not the same in their stocks and offers an alternative which we don't want. Moreover, they demand exceptional price for the module. Can you please help us in this respect? 1 Where we can find a new MVME 117A Motorola board? 2. What will be approximate price? 3. Does Motorolla have any site/email for solutions to such problems? An early detailed reply will be highly appreciated. Please mind that eproms provided by the machine manufacturers are available and we don't need that. Thank you Asif Mangel. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020121/fcb515d6/attachment.html From rhblakeman at kih.net Mon Jan 21 15:46:13 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 server Message-ID: ANyone have a source on the net for a PDF manual or a spare hardcopy they'd sell or trade for? I pick this monster up from Columbus IH sometime this week. From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jan 21 16:20:41 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 server In-Reply-To: from "Russ Blakeman" at Jan 21, 2002 03:46:13 PM Message-ID: <200201212220.g0LMKfk08539@shell1.aracnet.com> > ANyone have a source on the net for a PDF manual or a spare hardcopy they'd > sell or trade for? I pick this monster up from Columbus IH sometime this > week. > Have you checked the HP website? They seem to have amazingly good archives of thier PC Doc's online. Zane From rhblakeman at kih.net Mon Jan 21 17:01:36 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 server In-Reply-To: <200201212220.g0LMKfk08539@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: Just did a quick scan and I checked the partner site to no avail and haven't had a long time (busy on/off) to dig on the netserver.hp.com site yet. I have a few days, don't pick it up in Clumbus OH until Wed or Thrus anyway. Did manage to nail another set of 2 Pentium Pro 200 cpu's though, she's gonna be flying with a quad processor setup and (by the time I'm done) 2 gb of RAM. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 4:21 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 server > ANyone have a source on the net for a PDF manual or a spare hardcopy they'd > sell or trade for? I pick this monster up from Columbus IH sometime this > week. > Have you checked the HP website? They seem to have amazingly good archives of thier PC Doc's online. Zane From rhblakeman at kih.net Mon Jan 21 17:13:52 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 server In-Reply-To: <200201212220.g0LMKfk08539@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: Duh! - I totally missed the manuals link on the support site. Gi fogger after overhauling up to 3 PCs and 5 printers a day for 6 days striaght. Guess I'm slipping. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 4:21 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 server > ANyone have a source on the net for a PDF manual or a spare hardcopy they'd > sell or trade for? I pick this monster up from Columbus IH sometime this > week. > Have you checked the HP website? They seem to have amazingly good archives of thier PC Doc's online. Zane From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 21 13:31:28 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (update) In-Reply-To: Mark Tapley "Re: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (update)" (Jan 21, 10:45) References: Message-ID: <10201211931.ZM11665@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 21, 10:45, Mark Tapley wrote: > ..."heater?" IIRC, Pete said these transistors work up to 100 MHz and they > are being used to drive *heaters?* Does that mean the other 17 or so > connections to the print head carry the which-pixel information and > whatever (piezoelectric?) pulse it takes to actually send out the squirt of > ink? Oy. Or are there 8 heaters and one for the jet pulse, and the thin 17 > carry the jet-selection info? Maybe I am going to be be interested enough > to trace this whole circuit out. Or maybe I should just shred one of the > print heads to see what's inside it. The 100MHz just means it's possibly over-specced -- but probably not by much. The head travels at a fair speed over the paper and the dots are small, so you want the jets to turn on and off fairly fast; and you want a nice square wave (or at least fast rise and fall times) while you're doing it, not some ragged aproximation to a bent sine wave. I don't know much about inkjets, but isn't the very rapid and very localised heating part of what generates the jet? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 21 13:33:58 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: VAXstation newbie In-Reply-To: Adrian Graham "RE: VAXstation newbie" (Jan 21, 11:44) References: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021A47@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> Message-ID: <10201211933.ZM11669@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 21, 11:44, Adrian Graham wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: David.Neal@ubsw.com [mailto:David.Neal@ubsw.com] > > I highly doubt you can get the software on floppies, but I'm usually > > proved wrong, so best of luck. CD is the way to go but not all 3100's > > had SCSI as standard ( at least as an external option. Apart fromthat > > you're probably looking at TK tape. Versions varied, long production > > run, but the most usual was a 5.5, usually rev 2 or better. > > ISTR No VMS distro was available on floppy, the only VMS floppies I can > remember were boot disks for MicroVMS round V4.x. I have (parts of) 5.2 on floppy. It's a big box, but I don't think it will help anyone, though, as (a) it's incomplete, and (b) they're proper floppies, ie 8", not modern miniature imitations :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jan 21 16:31:03 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: VAXstation newbie Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E15B@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com [mailto:pete@dunnington.u-net.com] > On Jan 21, 11:44, Adrian Graham wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: David.Neal@ubsw.com [mailto:David.Neal@ubsw.com] > > > you're probably looking at TK tape. Versions varied, long > production > > > run, but the most usual was a 5.5, usually rev 2 or better. > > ISTR No VMS distro was available on floppy, the only VMS > floppies I can > > remember were boot disks for MicroVMS round V4.x. > I have (parts of) 5.2 on floppy. It's a big box, but I don't > think it will > help anyone, though, as (a) it's incomplete, and (b) they're proper > floppies, ie 8", not modern miniature imitations :-) Given a VMS machine with a floppy drive, though, you could put standalone backup, and the distribution stuff onto floppies with little problem. That pre-supposes somebody with a working VMS install who can write the floppies you need. I have a roommate who's got the VAXStation 3100 with the 3.5" floppy drive, and I think they're relatively common, though all the ones I have are without... so it's do-able. It would be much easier, though, for all concerned if you can plug something else into the VAX. A CD (provided it will do 512 byte blocks) is acceptable, as is a TK50, DDS-1, etc. You may have to find a strange scsi cable for the thing to use external SCSI devices. It's a 68-pin "honda" connector, but it's not wide SCSI, and normal wide SCSI connectors don't work. Expect to pay ~30 dollars US for the cable unless you get lucky. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Jan 21 12:38:32 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: ASUS ISA-486SI Motherboard BIOS In-Reply-To: <3C4C774D.7282ED5C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20020121233815.YTJP103.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:17:17 -0800 > From: "David C. Jenner" > Organization: EarthLink Network > To: Classic Computer Mailing List > Subject: ASUS ISA-486SI Motherboard BIOS > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > I think this just makes the "10 year rule". Yes that does! Because we're selling Asus in 386 and later era back then, yours was much earlier than '93 era. Is yours is baby AT, note retangular not square kind? That's very early Asus board. > I have an ASUS ISA-486SI motherboard, Copyright 1992. > I have the manual for it. The manual does NOT describe > any sort of BIOS upgrade, such as reflashing it, like later > boards in my collection do. All the ASUS Web sites and a > Google search reveal no BIOS upgrading information. That bios is EPROM, you can find late version on asus's ftp archives and have someone blow 27512 eprom with that data. Needs blank eprom, raid one (that one w/ round window, peel labels to check,) from junk board and erase it. The person who have the eprom burner also have the UV eraser for that task. > Was this too early for BIOS reflashing? The BIOS is not > Y2K compliant. It appears to work OK when I set the > current date/time, and when I turn it OFF/ON, it retains > the current date >2000 without problem. I think this bios still works after 2001 after you manually input it if the CMOS data got lost. > Anyone have any experience with this motherboard? It was > my original 486 back in 1992, but I haven't used it for > over two years. Utter reliable and most compatiable all I can say about it. VL/I-486SV2G4 and it's similar board w/ ISA only has Y2K roll over automatically and supports LBA. Heck, point is moot because we're post Y2K but these bios by Asus handles these leap years properly. > Dave Cheers, Wizard From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Jan 21 13:30:35 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (update) In-Reply-To: References: from "Mark Tapley" at Jan 21, 2 10:45:47 am Message-ID: <20020122003018.PCVL746.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (update) > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 23:53:23 +0000 (GMT) > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > ..."heater?" IIRC, Pete said these transistors work up to 100 MHz and they > > are being used to drive *heaters?* Does that mean the other 17 or so > > Sorry, I am so used to HP thermal inkjets that I forgot that other makes > don't work by heating up the ink... > > Forget about 'heaters', and replace with whatever sort of actuator the > printhead acutally uses... Canon and HP based on rapid pulse of heat per dot to "flash-boil" the alcohol-ink mixture, resulting exploding bubble forces ink thru that pinhole for a drop of ink onto paper. Epson use piezo to "whack" liquid ink out. Canon and HP "heaters" as Tony referred to are in cartridges. Epson printhead is fixed to the carriage and fed by removeable tanks. Cheers, Wizard From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 21 17:53:23 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (update) In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Jan 21, 2 10:45:47 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2492 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020121/9afc1706/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 21 18:06:25 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (update) In-Reply-To: <10201211931.ZM11665@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jan 21, 2 07:31:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1359 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020122/8abfec3c/attachment.ksh From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Jan 21 13:39:35 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve In-Reply-To: <200201220019.g0M0JBS13889@shell1.aracnet.com> References: from "Russ Blakeman" at Jan 21, 2002 05:01:36 PM Message-ID: <20020122004013.VRUK16876.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Sweet! What OS are you going to run? I've got a Quad PPro200 system myself > that I've been meaning to get up and running. I believe it currently has > NT4 installed, and I've been threatening to load Solaris 7 or 8 on it. > First though I want to disconnect the drive arrays so it sucks up less > power, besides I've been raiding it for drives for other, better systems. > > Zane FYI: 4 Pros 200MHz, (could be 256K or 512K), est: 40W each. Times four, 160W at full blast. Raided HD in bunch of 4 or 5 is NOTHING in watt output if these drives is about 12W each. BTW, PPro is granddaddy of PII and PIII. :-) Cheers, Wizard PS: Still not conviced that PPro is "worthy" CPUs. I view it as "bastard child" of PII, celeron is even worse. From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Jan 21 14:27:13 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve In-Reply-To: References: <20020122004013.VRUK16876.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20020122012701.QCGV746.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 19:00:12 -0600 (CST) > From: Doc > To: Classic Computers > Subject: Re: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > > PS: Still not conviced that PPro is "worthy" CPUs. I view it as > > "bastard child" of PII, celeron is even worse. > > I hope that's a typo. I've seen PPro 200 machines smoke PII 266 & PII > 300 boxen under load [Network Servers]. When you go to SMP, the > difference is even more marked. The Klamath was a dog. > > Doc Arf, arf! :-) Anyway I understand that, but didn't you make this fair comparsion on dual Pro and dual PII's? Remember, LX and BX already have udma for better HD multitasking. The old pro chipset didn't and relies on HD controller cards either SCSI ($$$) or IDE none has udma (early ones) except for promise cards. Cheers, Wizard From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jan 21 19:53:58 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve In-Reply-To: <20020122012701.QCGV746.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > Arf, arf! :-) Anyway I understand that, but didn't you make this > fair comparsion on dual Pro and dual PII's? Remember, LX and BX > already have udma for better HD multitasking. The old pro chipset > didn't and relies on HD controller cards either SCSI ($$$) or > IDE none has udma (early ones) except for promise cards. Hmmm. I wouldn't know about the udma issue. My new desktop is the first IDE system I've had in several years. All the SMP boxen I've had or administered were SCSI, and the only IDE PPro I've ever had aything to do with was a Dell desktop. It was strictly an end-user box, and I wasn't in a position to benchmark it. I still believe Intel would have been better off developing the PPro than going with the PII. Doc From rhblakeman at kih.net Mon Jan 21 20:40:53 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My present IBM PC Server 320 (PCI/EISA) has an IDE interface on the mobo and works fine and dandy with HD's and other IDE devices, except that it overrides boot from SCSI so it's turned off and all devices are SCSI predominantly. My old Dell 4066/XE server was the same way, but IDE was slow on it - never used it as I had plenty of SCSI devices on hand. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Doc Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 7:54 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > Arf, arf! :-) Anyway I understand that, but didn't you make this > fair comparsion on dual Pro and dual PII's? Remember, LX and BX > already have udma for better HD multitasking. The old pro chipset > didn't and relies on HD controller cards either SCSI ($$$) or > IDE none has udma (early ones) except for promise cards. Hmmm. I wouldn't know about the udma issue. My new desktop is the first IDE system I've had in several years. All the SMP boxen I've had or administered were SCSI, and the only IDE PPro I've ever had aything to do with was a Dell desktop. It was strictly an end-user box, and I wasn't in a position to benchmark it. I still believe Intel would have been better off developing the PPro than going with the PII. Doc From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Jan 21 20:42:03 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > I still believe Intel would have been better off developing the PPro > than going with the PII. Isn't that what they did with the Pentium III Xeon? Which is probably a discussion we can have in 2009. The thing with Intel based PCs is that there's nothing about them that I find interesting or exciting-- even the ones from the 1980s that we can talk about. They're so commodity in nature that there's little mystery or novelty to them. -brian. From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jan 21 21:37:59 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve In-Reply-To: from "Brian Chase" at Jan 21, 2002 06:42:03 PM Message-ID: <200201220337.g0M3bxl21249@shell1.aracnet.com> > On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > > > I still believe Intel would have been better off developing the PPro > > than going with the PII. > > Isn't that what they did with the Pentium III Xeon? Which is probably a > discussion we can have in 2009. Actually I'd say that the chip that's the closest relation to the PPro, in spite of not being based on it, is the Pentium IV. Zane From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jan 21 22:23:22 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve In-Reply-To: Re: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve (Brian Chase) References: Message-ID: <15436.59706.993961.341593@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 21, Brian Chase wrote: > > The thing with Intel based PCs is that there's nothing about them that I > find interesting or exciting-- even the ones from the 1980s that we can > talk about. They're so commodity in nature that there's little mystery > or novelty to them. On this, my friend, I would have to agree. So, to drag us kicking and screaming to an on-topic conversation...can anyone point me to some information on the IBM 9377? Specifically, I'm looking for physical dimensions, weight, and power requirements. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 21 22:45:06 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve In-Reply-To: <15436.59706.993961.341593@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: > So, to drag us kicking and screaming to an on-topic conversation...can > anyone point me to some information on the IBM 9377? Specifically, > I'm looking for physical dimensions, weight, and power requirements. I think these S/9370s were all in 9309 racks - that standard rack IBM used for RS/6000s, AS/400s, air ES/9000s, and general stuff. Excellent racks, except for the stupid size - 1.5 m by 1 m by .75 m (they always pin down the floor tile you need to get at). Heavy as sin. Don't know about the innards, though... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jan 22 00:00:00 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > I still believe Intel would have been better off developing the PPro > than going with the PII. They did. It's called the Pentium II Xeon. Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Mon Jan 21 23:55:07 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve In-Reply-To: <20020122012701.QCGV746.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > Arf, arf! :-) Anyway I understand that, but didn't you make this > fair comparsion on dual Pro and dual PII's? Remember, LX and BX > already have udma for better HD multitasking. The old pro chipset > didn't and relies on HD controller cards either SCSI ($$$) or > IDE none has udma (early ones) except for promise cards. Too much money for SCSI? I can solve that. Go to eBay. Look in the SCSI hard drive catagories. I once bought 8 36 GB IBM Ultrastars for $60 apiece dutch. Peace... Sridhar From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jan 21 19:00:12 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve In-Reply-To: <20020122004013.VRUK16876.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > PS: Still not conviced that PPro is "worthy" CPUs. I view it as > "bastard child" of PII, celeron is even worse. I hope that's a typo. I've seen PPro 200 machines smoke PII 266 & PII 300 boxen under load [Network Servers]. When you go to SMP, the difference is even more marked. The Klamath was a dog. Doc From rhblakeman at kih.net Mon Jan 21 20:30:00 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve In-Reply-To: <20020122004013.VRUK16876.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: The Netserver runs 3 410watt supplies so I'm looking at 1200-1600 watts but I live in one of the cheapest electric areas around. I've switched the hot water heater to electric and I love the savings on the propane but I still like gas heat so no furnace changes for me. I nailed a matched set of PPro 200's just shortly after the Netserver purchase, $25 for the set - should be here a day or so after I pick up the unit so hopefully by this weekend it will be humming along on NT server 4, possibly SCO Unix. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of jpero@sympatico.ca Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 1:40 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve > Sweet! What OS are you going to run? I've got a Quad PPro200 system myself > that I've been meaning to get up and running. I believe it currently has > NT4 installed, and I've been threatening to load Solaris 7 or 8 on it. > First though I want to disconnect the drive arrays so it sucks up less > power, besides I've been raiding it for drives for other, better systems. > > Zane FYI: 4 Pros 200MHz, (could be 256K or 512K), est: 40W each. Times four, 160W at full blast. Raided HD in bunch of 4 or 5 is NOTHING in watt output if these drives is about 12W each. BTW, PPro is granddaddy of PII and PIII. :-) Cheers, Wizard PS: Still not conviced that PPro is "worthy" CPUs. I view it as "bastard child" of PII, celeron is even worse. From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jan 21 21:20:33 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve In-Reply-To: <20020122004013.VRUK16876.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Jan 21, 2002 07:39:35 PM Message-ID: <200201220320.g0M3KXV20687@shell1.aracnet.com> > FYI: 4 Pros 200MHz, (could be 256K or 512K), est: 40W each. Times > four, 160W at full blast. > > Raided HD in bunch of 4 or 5 is NOTHING in watt output if these > drives is about 12W each. Why you think I want to tone down the power consumption as much as possible? I'll probably even pull half or more of the RAM out. I just want to play with a Quad-Processor system. > PS: Still not conviced that PPro is "worthy" CPUs. I view it as > "bastard child" of PII, celeron is even worse. The latest Celerons look pretty good, and the PPro itself is very good. Besides a PPro is better than a PII! It's just been left behind in the dust by the newer processors. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jan 21 18:19:11 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 server In-Reply-To: from "Russ Blakeman" at Jan 21, 2002 05:01:36 PM Message-ID: <200201220019.g0M0JBS13889@shell1.aracnet.com> > Just did a quick scan and I checked the partner site to no avail and haven't > had a long time (busy on/off) to dig on the netserver.hp.com site yet. http://netserver.hp.com/support/manuals.asp?pid=LXPro > I have a few days, don't pick it up in Clumbus OH until Wed or Thrus anyway. > Did manage to nail another set of 2 Pentium Pro 200 cpu's though, she's > gonna be flying with a quad processor setup and (by the time I'm done) 2 gb > of RAM. Sweet! What OS are you going to run? I've got a Quad PPro200 system myself that I've been meaning to get up and running. I believe it currently has NT4 installed, and I've been threatening to load Solaris 7 or 8 on it. First though I want to disconnect the drive arrays so it sucks up less power, besides I've been raiding it for drives for other, better systems. Zane From rhblakeman at kih.net Mon Jan 21 18:59:44 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 server In-Reply-To: <200201220019.g0M0JBS13889@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: NT 4 server for now, considering SCO Unix as a second. I'm going to experiment with Apache server on my old IBM 9595-OPT and may possibly switch the HP later if all owrks out like I want it to. Hell if I could latch onto a T1 or T3 cheap enough I could always go into the internet ISP biz...like I have time. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 6:19 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 server > Just did a quick scan and I checked the partner site to no avail and haven't > had a long time (busy on/off) to dig on the netserver.hp.com site yet. http://netserver.hp.com/support/manuals.asp?pid=LXPro > I have a few days, don't pick it up in Clumbus OH until Wed or Thrus anyway. > Did manage to nail another set of 2 Pentium Pro 200 cpu's though, she's > gonna be flying with a quad processor setup and (by the time I'm done) 2 gb > of RAM. Sweet! What OS are you going to run? I've got a Quad PPro200 system myself that I've been meaning to get up and running. I believe it currently has NT4 installed, and I've been threatening to load Solaris 7 or 8 on it. First though I want to disconnect the drive arrays so it sucks up less power, besides I've been raiding it for drives for other, better systems. Zane From celigne at tinyworld.co.uk Mon Jan 21 17:41:47 2002 From: celigne at tinyworld.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Sea Container Spelunking (Terminal Junkie Part Two) Message-ID: <3C4CA73B.FDA7CCED@tinyworld.co.uk> I was hunting around at work today for manuals for the Lynwood Alpha that I grabbed at the weekend. I was told to grab a torch and led to a group of six sea containers out the back of our building. It appears that we never really throw anything away -- it just gets put into sea containers. I half expected to find some ex-colleagues preserved in aspic. "Oh, John? No, he never _really_ left. No one ever does". Presumably at some point in the future we're intending to load the containers on board a cargo ship and dump our archives in mid Atlantic. Anyway, these sea containers contain a treasure trove of old equipment and manuals. It appears that we used to be into Texas Instruments 990 computers in a big way -- we've still got a bunch of manuals in the library, but it's a tiny fraction of the files stuffed away outside. I've a feeling the 990(s) have long since been scrapped, but everything else is in storage. I found what I thought was a calculator like my first school one, with red LEDs (a TI-30?), but it was actually a mini terminal, called a TM 990/301 (I think). Sadly, no sign of a manual for the Lynwood Alpha, but compensation came in the shape of operator's and user's manuals for the LSI ADM 3A, ADM 11 and manuals for the Digital Engineering Incorporated Retrographics card for the ADM 3A. Unfortunately, none of the LSI manuals answer the age-old question of what "ADM" stands for. It appears that circumstances are conspiring to make my web site no longer exclusively devoted to DEC terminals. If anyone wants a manual for the Data General Dasher D410 I mentioned yesterday, the PDF and TIFF are online at http://vt100.net/dg/. The User Manual for the LSI ADM 3A is online at http://vt100.net/lsi/ (proper pages to come later, blah, blah). Time to don a hard hat and dig deeper... - Paul From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 21 18:45:49 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Sea Container Spelunking (Terminal Junkie Part Two) In-Reply-To: Paul Williams "Sea Container Spelunking (Terminal Junkie Part Two)" (Jan 21, 23:41) References: <3C4CA73B.FDA7CCED@tinyworld.co.uk> Message-ID: <10201220045.ZM11944@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 21, 23:41, Paul Williams wrote: > I was hunting around at work today for manuals for the Lynwood Alpha > that I grabbed at the weekend. I was told to grab a torch and led to a > group of six sea containers out the back of our building. It appears > that we never really throw anything away -- it just gets put into sea > containers. > Time to don a hard hat and dig deeper... I have a hard hat. Do you need any help? ;-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 21 17:55:05 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: How much? In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E148@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> from "Christopher Smith" at Jan 21, 2 11:28:10 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 243 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020121/08911d03/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 21 17:57:48 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Electronics and Technology Cosmos International In-Reply-To: from "CLeyson@aol.com" at Jan 21, 2 02:20:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1260 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020121/789c7e8f/attachment.ksh From CLeyson at aol.com Mon Jan 21 19:32:57 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Electronics and Technology Cosmos International Message-ID: <2d.1725d077.297e1b49@aol.com> In a message dated 21/01/02 ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes: >> >> Today whilst picking up a copy of Wireless World I noticed a new >> publication. "Electronics and Technology Cosmos International" > I've seen it too.. Unfortunately (for this publication) the same bookshop > had 'Circuit Cellar' on the shelf. Guess which one followed me home :-)... > An easy choice. >> So what I here you say. Well, the January edition is 72 pages of electronics >> with no adverts... > I looked at it, and decided there was nothing really new in it. It all > looked to be standard stuff that was covered in many of the books on my > shelf anyway. The main reason I buy magazines is to look at clever ways > of using the chips, not standard stuff... > > -tony > I agree, there is nothing really new, but it is nice to see a publication without any adverts. Given the choice I would go for 'Circuit Cellar'' every time. I must think about taking out a subscription. Chris From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jan 21 19:40:32 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Electronics and Technology Cosmos International In-Reply-To: Re: Electronics and Technology Cosmos International (CLeyson@aol.com) References: <2d.1725d077.297e1b49@aol.com> Message-ID: <15436.49936.725142.649771@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 21, CLeyson@aol.com wrote: > I agree, there is nothing really new, but it is nice to see a publication > without > any adverts. Given the choice I would go for 'Circuit Cellar'' every time. I > must > think about taking out a subscription. I've been a subscriber for years. I highly recommend it. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jan 21 18:23:12 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: RFC; Request For Coaching. Was RE: RT 6150 Docs (and mouse??) In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E14D@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > Could mean he has no distribution media, but there's an installed O/S... No, he meant that it wouldn't boot at all. This box has been "rode hard & put up wet". 2 of the 3 E70 disks aren't recognized - one doesn't spin at all and one spins but I can't hear the heads move, and the Diags don't see it. The one good disk reports on all positions - C,D, and E - so the cables & PS connections are good. The docs concerning switches and termination aren't very clear on multiple disks, but I've tried the dead ones singly, and they're still dead. The ESDI adapter and the good disk ass the Diags tests. Oh, yeah, I almost forgot. I had to remove the SIIG 8-bit serial/parallel card before the poor guy could boot at all. With just the good disk attached, the AOS miniroot gets adapter time-outs from the EESDI adapter, and reboots endlessly. The stand-alone utility won't accept any device name I can come up with - /dev/hdc0, /dev/hd0, hdc0, hd0, 0, slave 0 - to format the disk. The biggest problem, though, is that the Escape and F3 keys are totally dead. Does anybody have dumb-ass-level instructions for repairing an RT keyboard? It's apparently some kind of bubble/double-membrane switch. The back cover is missing and the floor pedestal is mostly chipped away. The good news: It's the Enhanced Advanced 032 CPU, and it has both the Ungermann-Bass ethernet adapter and the 6157 tape-drive adapter. No 6157 drive or cable. > Also note that early version of AIX were much more like "something strange" than they were like normal Unix. From what I've heard they may be quite a bit different from new versions. I dunno. Modern AIX is 'much more like "something strange"' than it is like modern Unix.... Doc, who is in WAY over his head From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 21 18:46:10 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: RFC; Request For Coaching. Was RE: RT 6150 Docs (and mouse??) In-Reply-To: from "Doc" at Jan 21, 2 06:23:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4059 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020122/c0a95930/attachment.ksh From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jan 21 18:49:27 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: RFC; Request For Coaching. Was RE: RT 6150 Docs (and mouse??) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > but I've tried the dead ones singly, and they're still dead. The > ESDI adapter and the good disk ass the Diags tests. Ummm, the ESDI adapter and the good disk *pass* the Diags tests. Doc From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 21 18:39:50 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: DRI 7200 8" floppy drive Message-ID: <10201220039.ZM11866@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Does anyone have a circuit diagram for a DRI 7200 floppy? This is a double-sided 8" floppy drive. I have a pair of them in a Baydel box, and Drive 1 has faulty electronics (I've checked the cables, connectors, and jumpers, and switched the boards just to be sure). It won't read (it does seek, load heads, detect disk, etc). I'd like to fix it, but tracing out the circuit isn't my first wish. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From taylor at cem.nrl.navy.mil Mon Jan 21 19:07:37 2002 From: taylor at cem.nrl.navy.mil (Douglas Taylor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: ADAC Qbus A/D Board info Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020121200138.00a98b50@crystal.nrl.navy.mil> I have an ADAC analog to digital convertor board but no info. Looking at the board I can tell this much; Sticker on the back says: ADAC Model 1012-8DI-B-3PGA-0 Dual width qbus A/D board, ADV11 compatible? ------------------------------------------------------------------ Large Components: DC-DC convertor Analog Devices 940 +5 to +/-15V ? ADAC Adaptive Data qcquisition module ADAM 12 APG-G=1,2,5,10 (12 bit A/D, two 8 channel mux, etc) ------------------------------------------------------------------ Switches: S1 - Dip SW 5 pos CSR? S2 - Dip SW 5 pos CSR? S3 - Dip SW 6 pos VEC? ------------------------------------------------------------------ Connectors: J1 - 20 Pin flat cable conn A/D Settings? J2 - 20 Pin flat cable analog inputs + trigger? ------------------------------------------------------------------- Jumpers on board - in sections outlined in yellow DMA - 2 holes not conn CSRMX - 5 G 4 all cut EXT TRIG - 1 hole VECTOR - 3 V 4 3,V conn A/D CONF. - 1 2 3 4 1,3 conn - 8 P M N not8 M,N,P conn A/D RANGE - U G B U,G conn - G 1 3 4 5 3,4 2,G conn CL - CL TR ET CL TR conn ------------------------------------------------------------------- Does anyone have docs and/or software for this card? Doug From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jan 21 19:57:20 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve Message-ID: <15436.50944.63999.433694@phaduka.neurotica.com> On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > PS: Still not conviced that PPro is "worthy" CPUs. I view it as > "bastard child" of PII, celeron is even worse. Huh?? The PPro is easily the best x86-architecture processor those bozos at Intel have ever released. The PII is a total piece of crap in comparison, in my opinion. If anything, it's the PII that's the bastard child of the PPro! I'm not trying to be argumentative here...and I'm CERTAINLY not defending any of Intel's crappy designs...but I believe the PPro is indeed the best of the bunch, and as such, I suggest that it might be worth another look. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Jan 21 15:49:19 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve In-Reply-To: References: <15436.50944.63999.433694@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20020122024902.SMKB19101.tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 18:25:36 -0800 (PDT) > From: Brian Chase > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > PS: Still not conviced that PPro is "worthy" CPUs. I view it as > > > "bastard child" of PII, celeron is even worse. > > > > Huh?? The PPro is easily the best x86-architecture processor those > > bozos at Intel have ever released. The PII is a total piece of crap > > in comparison, in my opinion. If anything, it's the PII that's the > > bastard child of the PPro! > > Shouldn't we be saving this argument for 2005 or 2006? Soothe... I was trying to see your thoughts on PPros, keep in mind that PII and PIII are based on P6 which is PPro's original design. Also PPro boards relied on 72pin simms which is not that great of a bandwith and capacity, SDRAM has best density and good bandwith, also still good cost even cost has recently risen. That the reason for later machines w/ PII/PIII, Xeon and it's relatives P4 northwoods /w DDR (not the 1st generation P4), athlons. still stands If ones wishs newer "PPro" look at Xeons, early ones had very large L2 cache clocked at 1:1 cpu:L2 clock. Most of my scorn lies w/ PPro's chipsets more than CPU themselves. Same w/ celeron. It is okay but... For now, let it rest after few turns on that list okay? Cheers, Wizard From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jan 22 00:05:53 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve In-Reply-To: <20020122024902.SMKB19101.tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > Soothe... I was trying to see your thoughts on PPros, > keep in mind that PII and PIII are based on P6 which is PPro's > original design. Also PPro boards relied on 72pin simms which is not > that great of a bandwith and capacity, SDRAM has best density and > good bandwith, also still good cost even cost has recently risen. Not all of them. I have an IBM PC Server 330 which uses ECC EDO SDRAM. Peace... Sridhar From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Jan 21 20:25:36 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve In-Reply-To: <15436.50944.63999.433694@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > PS: Still not conviced that PPro is "worthy" CPUs. I view it as > > "bastard child" of PII, celeron is even worse. > > Huh?? The PPro is easily the best x86-architecture processor those > bozos at Intel have ever released. The PII is a total piece of crap > in comparison, in my opinion. If anything, it's the PII that's the > bastard child of the PPro! Shouldn't we be saving this argument for 2005 or 2006? -brian. From rhblakeman at kih.net Mon Jan 21 20:48:26 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:50 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In a way but heck we ought to reclass the age for servers anymore - they barely power on and corporates dump them as obsolete anymore. I saw some surplus AS/400's for sale that were 1998 vintage... Sorry bout dat folks. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Brian Chase Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 8:26 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > PS: Still not conviced that PPro is "worthy" CPUs. I view it as > > "bastard child" of PII, celeron is even worse. > > Huh?? The PPro is easily the best x86-architecture processor those > bozos at Intel have ever released. The PII is a total piece of crap > in comparison, in my opinion. If anything, it's the PII that's the > bastard child of the PPro! Shouldn't we be saving this argument for 2005 or 2006? -brian. From rhblakeman at kih.net Mon Jan 21 20:40:54 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve In-Reply-To: <15436.50944.63999.433694@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: My feelings exactly, hence I bought a PPro x4 server rather than a PII single, dula or quad (do they make a quad PII??Dunno) -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dave McGuire Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 7:57 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > PS: Still not conviced that PPro is "worthy" CPUs. I view it as > "bastard child" of PII, celeron is even worse. Huh?? The PPro is easily the best x86-architecture processor those bozos at Intel have ever released. The PII is a total piece of crap in comparison, in my opinion. If anything, it's the PII that's the bastard child of the PPro! I'm not trying to be argumentative here...and I'm CERTAINLY not defending any of Intel's crappy designs...but I believe the PPro is indeed the best of the bunch, and as such, I suggest that it might be worth another look. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Jan 21 20:11:40 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: windowed MC68HSR705J1ACS ? Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020121201140.007b3dc0@ubanproductions.com> I am looking for a source for a MC68HSR705J1ACS Motorola 20 pin DIP with window (erasable) MC68HC701J1A microprocessor. I have only been able to find the OTP versions, but would like to find an erasable one for development. Does anyone know of a source, or have one (or 2) that you would be willing to sell me? --tnx --tom From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jan 21 22:10:09 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: windowed MC68HSR705J1ACS ? References: <3.0.5.32.20020121201140.007b3dc0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <001701c1a2fa$aed1e700$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'm not at all convinced I know what you're after. The 20-pin 68HC705 parts with which I'm familiar are the MC68HC705J1A which comes in a number of packages, one of which is the ceraminc windowed part. I don't think these are unavailable in distribution, though I've never gotten one for less than $60. I think the last place I saw them for sale was Future-Active electronics. www.future-active.com, though things change, and a quick look didn't show that part. ISTR that DigiKey had the windowed parts too at one time. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Uban" To: Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 7:11 PM Subject: windowed MC68HSR705J1ACS ? > I am looking for a source for a MC68HSR705J1ACS Motorola 20 pin DIP > with window (erasable) MC68HC701J1A microprocessor. I have only been > able to find the OTP versions, but would like to find an erasable > one for development. Does anyone know of a source, or have one (or 2) > that you would be willing to sell me? > > --tnx > --tom > > From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Jan 21 23:59:35 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: windowed MC68HSR705J1ACS ? In-Reply-To: <001701c1a2fa$aed1e700$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <3.0.5.32.20020121201140.007b3dc0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020121235935.00962520@ubanproductions.com> I'm after the 20-pin DIP ceramic windowed part vs. the OTP part. The part number that I indicated (MC68HC705J1ACS) should be the one which matches what I am looking for. No one seems to have them, including the places that you reference, at *any* price. --tom At 09:10 PM 1/21/02 -0700, you wrote: >I'm not at all convinced I know what you're after. The 20-pin 68HC705 parts >with which I'm familiar are the MC68HC705J1A which comes in a number of >packages, one of which is the ceraminc windowed part. I don't think these are >unavailable in distribution, though I've never gotten one for less than $60. >I think the last place I saw them for sale was Future-Active electronics. >www.future-active.com, though things change, and a quick look didn't show that >part. ISTR that DigiKey had the windowed parts too at one time. > >Dick > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tom Uban" >To: >Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 7:11 PM >Subject: windowed MC68HSR705J1ACS ? > > >> I am looking for a source for a MC68HSR705J1ACS Motorola 20 pin DIP >> with window (erasable) MC68HC701J1A microprocessor. I have only been >> able to find the OTP versions, but would like to find an erasable >> one for development. Does anyone know of a source, or have one (or 2) >> that you would be willing to sell me? >> >> --tnx >> --tom >> >> > > > From vaxman at earthlink.net Mon Jan 21 20:27:14 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: Looken for a HP7485C Message-ID: contact me off list please... From vaxman at earthlink.net Tue Jan 22 00:10:28 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: Doh! Looking for HP 9845C (was Re: Looken for a HP7485C) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I thought that number looked odd... A buddy of mine is seeking one (or more).... Clint On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > contact me off list please... > > > From vance at ikickass.org Mon Jan 21 22:42:23 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: Intresting device for sale In-Reply-To: <20456.210.138.200.5.1011610209.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: This person seems to have a lot of weird shit for sale. Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 quapla@xs4all.nl wrote: > Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:50:09 +0100 (CET) > From: quapla@xs4all.nl > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Intresting device for sale > > > For an unusual device, look at this intresting ebay item. No, I'm not > the one selling it. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1693885087 > > Ed > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jan 21 22:57:58 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: Intresting device for sale In-Reply-To: from "Julius Sridhar" at Jan 21, 2002 11:42:23 PM Message-ID: <200201220457.g0M4vwt23773@shell1.aracnet.com> Yes, and how many are you bidding on :^) On a slightly serious note, how do you think the Post Office or UPS would react to someone shipping those "Magnets of Death" :^) On a serious note, the person would appear to be a mineralogist with an interesting sense of humor. Most of that stuff isn't that wierd, at least I don't think so, but then I've got boxes of minerals sitting next to computers. (No, I don't have any magnets sitting next to the computers though). Zane > This person seems to have a lot of weird shit for sale. > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 quapla@xs4all.nl wrote: > > > Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:50:09 +0100 (CET) > > From: quapla@xs4all.nl > > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Intresting device for sale > > > > > > For an unusual device, look at this intresting ebay item. No, I'm not > > the one selling it. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1693885087 > > > > Ed > > > > > From rhblakeman at kih.net Mon Jan 21 23:16:42 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: Intresting device for sale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Worst part is that he HAS a bidder named Sridhar :-) -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Julius Sridhar Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 10:42 PM To: quapla@xs4all.nl Cc: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Intresting device for sale This person seems to have a lot of weird shit for sale. Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 quapla@xs4all.nl wrote: > Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:50:09 +0100 (CET) > From: quapla@xs4all.nl > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Intresting device for sale > > > For an unusual device, look at this intresting ebay item. No, I'm not > the one selling it. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1693885087 > > Ed > > From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jan 22 00:14:52 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: Intresting device for sale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Worst part is that he HAS a bidder named Sridhar :-) Yeah. That would be me. 8-) Peace... Sridhar From rhblakeman at kih.net Tue Jan 22 00:39:07 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: Intresting device for sale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I knew that, really should have gone straight to you though due to the heavy off-topic screw-offedness of the reply. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Julius Sridhar Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 12:15 AM To: Russ Blakeman Cc: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Intresting device for sale On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Worst part is that he HAS a bidder named Sridhar :-) Yeah. That would be me. 8-) Peace... Sridhar From rhblakeman at kih.net Mon Jan 21 23:33:58 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: MCA memory card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I just sold 25 of them without memory (they use 2mb simms) for less than $20 on ebay -most IBM but others were in there too. You can post it but my guess is that with memory (4 simms) you are in the asking range of $8 to $12. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of William Donzelli Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 10:59 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: MCA memory card I recently pulled a Expanded Memory Adaptor/A card out of a PS/2 model 60 (part number 61X6752). I do not know much about this thing - I have never seen one before. This is not a great suprise - I am not really a PS/2 kind of guy, even though I ought to be. I need to sell this for RCS (we need money), and would like to know *anything* about it, like if it is even worth throwing into the 'bay. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 21 23:40:41 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: MCA memory card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I just sold 25 of them without memory (they use 2mb simms) for less than $20 > on ebay -most IBM but others were in there too. You can post it but my guess > is that with memory (4 simms) you are in the asking range of $8 to $12. This has six SIMMs, with two more slots empty. The SIMMs are not IBM branded. Sounds like the card is worthless, but the SIMMs might be something. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From rhblakeman at kih.net Tue Jan 22 00:39:05 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: MCA memory card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Does that have the 30 pin or 72 pin SIMMs? All I've seen with 6 is the 30 pinners, and I think they are 16 bit vs 32 bit. Anyway dependant on what it actually fits it might be worth a couple bucks as some of the ones for the 8086/8088 and 80286 family are getting harder to find. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of William Donzelli Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 11:41 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: MCA memory card > I just sold 25 of them without memory (they use 2mb simms) for less than $20 > on ebay -most IBM but others were in there too. You can post it but my guess > is that with memory (4 simms) you are in the asking range of $8 to $12. This has six SIMMs, with two more slots empty. The SIMMs are not IBM branded. Sounds like the card is worthless, but the SIMMs might be something. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jan 22 00:14:26 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: MCA memory card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > I recently pulled a Expanded Memory Adaptor/A card out of a PS/2 model 60 > (part number 61X6752). I do not know much about this thing - I have never > seen one before. This is not a great suprise - I am not really a PS/2 kind > of guy, even though I ought to be. I need to sell this for RCS (we need > money), and would like to know *anything* about it, like if it is even > worth throwing into the 'bay. Ok. It's the best 16-bit MCA memory card. I believe you can add up to 8 MB to a system with it. It uses 2MB 85 ns PS/2 SIMMs. It's worth a few bucks, I guess. Peace,,, Sridhar From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 21 22:59:16 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: MCA memory card Message-ID: I recently pulled a Expanded Memory Adaptor/A card out of a PS/2 model 60 (part number 61X6752). I do not know much about this thing - I have never seen one before. This is not a great suprise - I am not really a PS/2 kind of guy, even though I ought to be. I need to sell this for RCS (we need money), and would like to know *anything* about it, like if it is even worth throwing into the 'bay. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 22 03:18:49 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: MCA memory card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > I recently pulled a Expanded Memory Adaptor/A card out of a PS/2 model > 60 (part number 61X6752). I do not know much about this thing - I have > never seen one before. This is not a great suprise - I am not really a > PS/2 kind of guy, even though I ought to be. I need to sell this for > RCS (we need money), and would like to know *anything* about it, like > if it is even worth throwing into the 'bay. These things are more or less worthless unless they are used in a model 50 or 60. They are only really usable in the 286 class machines, and expanded memory isn't all that useful anyway. I'd use an extended memory board over the expanded memory board any day. With a full 8mb of ram, I'd say the expanded memory board would be worth no more than $10. I've bought the 2mb simms it uses for around $1ea locally. -Toth From alan.pearson at cramer.com Tue Jan 22 03:22:43 2002 From: alan.pearson at cramer.com (Alan Pearson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: thanks from a VAXstation newbie :-) Message-ID: Heheh, OK, so VMS on floppies isn't realistic - I've obviously been spoiled by my time with a Sun 386i :-) I guess I'll get a CD drive, join DECUS and get myself the 7.2 CD. Thanks for your help and advice, everyone :) Cheers Al From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jan 16 00:16:33 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: OT: FS, Metcal hot-air soldering iron Message-ID: <15429.6849.5428.863738@phaduka.neurotica.com> Hi folks. Sorry for the off-topic crosspost, but I figure there might be some interest here. I have a Metcal model PHAP-01 hot-air soldering system here, in near-mint condition, that I'd like to sell. I figure I'd mention it here before going to eBay. I'm looking to get maybe $350-400 for it. Anyone interested? -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From wilby98 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 22 04:17:01 2002 From: wilby98 at yahoo.com (William S.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: thanks from a VAXstation newbie :-) In-Reply-To: ; from alan.pearson@cramer.com on Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 09:22:43AM -0000 References: Message-ID: <20020122111701.A8519@xs4all.nl> I thought about this too. Why not use a PC 1.2MB 5.25i drive on a spare PC to write the media onto the floppies? Then use the floppies to load it on the VAX? The PC would also have the CDROM and VMS media. You would just have to figure out a way of making the seperate floppy "images?". There is some info here that may describe it better: http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/vax/rx50.html Bill Amsterdam, NL On Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 09:22:43AM -0000, Alan Pearson wrote: > Heheh, OK, so VMS on floppies isn't realistic - I've obviously been spoiled > by my time with a Sun 386i :-) I guess I'll get a CD drive, join DECUS and > get myself the 7.2 CD. Thanks for your help and advice, everyone :) > > Cheers > Al From mikem at open.com.au Tue Jan 22 05:23:35 2002 From: mikem at open.com.au (Mike McCauley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: DC-100 cartridge tapes wanted Message-ID: <200201221123.g0MBNZl23512@oscar.open.com.au> Hi all, Im looking for DC-100 cartridge tapes to use with my Tek 4041 GPIB controller. I think HP also used to use them a lot? Dont care about the tape length, just the mechanical size. Anyone (preferably in Australia) have a small number surplus to requirements? Cheers. -- Mike McCauley mikem@open.com.au Open System Consultants Pty. Ltd Unix, Perl, Motif, C++, WWW 24 Bateman St Hampton, VIC 3188 Australia http://www.open.com.au Phone +61 3 9598-0985 Fax +61 3 9598-0955 Radiator: the most portable, flexible and configurable RADIUS server anywhere. SQL, proxy, DBM, files, LDAP, NIS+, password, NT, Emerald, Platypus, Freeside, TACACS+, PAM, external, Active Directory etc etc on Unix, Win95/8, 2000, NT, MacOS 9, MacOS X From Golemancd at aol.com Tue Jan 22 06:23:37 2002 From: Golemancd at aol.com (Golemancd@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: boot sector Message-ID: <12b.b06100b.297eb3c9@aol.com> can anyone tell me if they can see the bug in this boot sector. i cant seem to get it to work. .386 .model tiny option segment:use16 cseg segment para public 'code' startt: mov ax,4000h mov ds,ax mov bx,0h mov bp,0300h ;setup far pointer mov word ptr ds:[bp],bx ;move from 0000:7c00 to 07c0:0000 mov bx,7c0h mov word ptr ds:[bp]+2,bx jmp dword ptr ds:[bp] ;start of my code mov bx,0b800h ;set up video write mov es,bx xor bx,bx mov ax,0731h mov word ptr es:[bx+80],ax stay: ;loop nop jmp stay org 510 dw 0aa55h cseg ends end startt Joee From Golemancd at aol.com Tue Jan 22 06:38:58 2002 From: Golemancd at aol.com (Golemancd@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: boot sector Message-ID: <166.781a036.297eb762@aol.com> forgot to say "this is for a basic x86 processor" Joee From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jan 22 07:26:14 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve In-Reply-To: <15436.50944.63999.433694@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020122071738.01f825d8@pc> At 08:57 PM 1/21/2002 -0500, Dave McGuire wrote: >On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: >> PS: Still not conviced that PPro is "worthy" CPUs. I view it as >> "bastard child" of PII, celeron is even worse. > > Huh?? The PPro is easily the best x86-architecture processor those >bozos at Intel have ever released. I'll second that. The cache makes a big difference, and Intel pushed decent cache only on today's expensive high-end CPUs "for servers". It was only a few months ago that I retired my circa 1996 dual PPro 200 system that I'd used as my main PC. I replaced it with a dual 1.2 Athlon on a Tyan S2462 Thunder K7 with 512M of Corsair DDR. Multiprocessing is great, and the new system is much faster, but that P6DNF was nice. I've got two quad-capable PPro Compaq Proliant 7000s waiting in the machine room for tinkering. If I harvest the CPUs from my old MB and scavenge the other Proliant, I can try quad SMP. - John From out2sea00 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 22 08:58:07 2002 From: out2sea00 at yahoo.com (Colin Eby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 server In-Reply-To: <200201220641.g0M6fKs90276@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <20020122145807.91061.qmail@web14501.mail.yahoo.com> Russ -- Let me know if you need any other resources for this system. We're still using this model -- after four years of co-habitation, I couldn't know them much better. We have four or five of these, and one ultra-rare LXr-Pro8. I get around to doing a fresh build on them every 4 months or so. That's because they're part of our benchmarking equipment pool. So they get reconfigured very regularly. The performance engineering folks (myself included) use them. And they certainly do perform well, even if they are bordering on classic status. I understand you have a source for manuals already. So anything else you need, please let me know. One word of advice. I'd leave the RAM in. It's the RAM that keeps them running like much newer equipment, since there aren't that many applications that'll peg a quad, even an old one, they'll run best with everything resident in main. Second piece of advice, put a better video card in. There's an embedded one -- but it's a flicker-fest at anything higher than 800x600. Colin Eby Senior Consultant CSC Consulting __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From spc at conman.org Tue Jan 22 09:12:44 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: boot sector In-Reply-To: <12b.b06100b.297eb3c9@aol.com> from "Golemancd@aol.com" at Jan 22, 2002 07:23:37 AM Message-ID: <200201221512.KAA26475@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Golemancd@aol.com once stated: > > can anyone tell me if they can see the bug in this boot sector. > i cant seem to get it to work. > > > .386 > .model tiny > > option segment:use16 > > cseg segment para public 'code' > startt: > mov ax,4000h > mov ds,ax > mov bx,0h > mov bp,0300h ;setup far pointer > > mov word ptr ds:[bp],bx ;move from 0000:7c00 to 07c0:0000 > mov bx,7c0h > mov word ptr ds:[bp]+2,bx > jmp dword ptr ds:[bp] Why are you doing this? Usually, most people physically move the code somewhere else and then jump there, not just change the segment/offset address to a physical equivilent. Also, you are getting into an infinite loop. The ``jump'' from 0000:7c00 (07c00) to 07c0:0000 (07c00) is taking you back to the start of the boot sector. > ;start of my code Which is never executed. -spc (Hope this helps ... ) From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jan 22 09:12:53 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: Sea Container Spelunking (Terminal Junkie Part Two) Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E15F@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Williams [mailto:celigne@tinyworld.co.uk] > and manuals for the Digital Engineering Incorporated > Retrographics card > for the ADM 3A. Unfortunately, none of the LSI manuals answer the > age-old question of what "ADM" stands for. Ok, I have an ADM-5 with one of these "Retrographics" add-ons. Can anybody tell me what they do? Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jan 22 09:26:04 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: RFC; Request For Coaching. Was RE: RT 6150 Docs (and mouse??) Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E160@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > Oh, yeah, I almost forgot. I had to remove the SIIG 8-bit > serial/parallel card before the poor guy could boot at all. First thing to check is whether it will work in a different slot. Some busses are very picky, and I have no idea what is used in the RT. (So don't take my word for it.. ;) > With just the good disk attached, the AOS miniroot gets adapter > time-outs from the EESDI adapter, and reboots endlessly. The > stand-alone > utility won't accept any device name I can come up with - /dev/hdc0, > /dev/hd0, hdc0, hd0, 0, slave 0 - to format the disk. Probably more like rdT0 or rhdT0 (where T is a type of drive... or not there at all), or rd0s0d0. The "r" is likely to be important because many unixes require a "character" type device to actually make a filesytem on a disk, and in fact to do many disk-level operations. The "r" device prefix generally denotes this. For instance, on RISC/OS, SVR3.5, and I believe SunOS 4, you'll see just that. I've always imagined the "r" to stand for "raw" or something similar, but I'm not sure. > > Also note that early version of AIX were much more like > "something strange" > than they were like normal Unix. From what I've heard they > I dunno. Modern AIX is 'much more like "something strange"' than it > is like modern Unix.... Well, ok, but my point was that they're supposed to be _more_ strange. :) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 21 17:47:15 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: Security bits In-Reply-To: from "Paul R. Santa-Maria" at Jan 21, 2 09:51:26 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 544 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020121/574a4898/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 21 17:31:42 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Jan 21, 2 02:26:57 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1312 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020121/79a7c6f9/attachment.ksh From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 22 09:37:56 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: Security bits In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > There are some security screws it doesn't cover. Most notably, 'System > Zero', which is commonly used in electronic and computer equipment. I've > found modems assembled with those, for what reason nobody seems to know... What do these look like? Are they the ones with a raised line across the head of the screw? -Toth From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Jan 22 09:19:34 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #840 In-Reply-To: <200201220641.g0M6fKs90276@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: >From: "Zane H. Healy" >Subject: Re: Intresting device for sale > ... > >On a slightly serious note, how do you think the Post Office or UPS would >react to someone shipping those "Magnets of Death" :^) > Good point! I have this vision in mind: Package #1 slides through USPS electron-beam sterilizer, comes out OK. Package #2 slides through e-beam, SmartMedia inside fried, but no anthrax survive. Package #3 containing "Magnets of Death" slides up to e-beam.... ...postal workers all over the building fried. No anthrax survive. - Mark From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jan 22 09:26:18 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: windowed MC68HSR705J1ACS ? References: <3.0.5.32.20020121201140.007b3dc0@ubanproductions.com> <3.0.5.32.20020121235935.00962520@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <001601c1a359$282959e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> These parts have been discontinued by Motorola for about 5 years, so I'm not surprised you're having difficulty finding them. That "SR" in the part number disturbs me somewhat as well, as it's not on any of the windowed parts I have, and I don't think they made two 20-pin windowed parts. I'm also not sure what the MC68HC701J1A has to do with any of this. The '701 is a much older part that never came in a 20-pin version, and, I don't think ever came in an 'HC version either. Perhaps the nomenclature is screwing up your search. I'm not sure what the correct part number for the ceramic windowed package is, but I'm not at all sure that MC68HC705J1ACS is it. I could go look, I suppose, but it's an easter-egg hunt, so it might take some time. If you find the right parts-search engine, it will turn up a supply of these parts, but not at "cheap" prices. I found 'em a couple of weeks back, after getting a spam from a "new" parts-search site. I have them look for Z84C0020 and MC68HC705J1A just to see what they turn up, and I was surprised to find that they had pointers to supply of both, not that I want to buy either. If you're really determined to use the 20-pin part, there are a couple of current 'HC805 and 'HC908 parts that might work for you. Mot has been trying quite actively to kill off the 'HC05 series, but it seemingly refuses to die. I remember the MOT guys discouraging me from using the 'HC705K1 (16 pins) back in '94. They didn[t have a 16-pin replacement from the 'HC805 series at the time so I used it anyway, but I also bought into the 20-pin part, since that was still available. I've come to regret that, however. It didn't matter, since management killed the project, but that was the last time I bought any of the MOT MCU's. My experience has been that they don't tell the truth about supply, and they won't support you at volumes under 100K parts per week. They use distributors who won't supply you at levels like 200 per week, either, so most of my clients are screwed with MOT parts. Consequently, I haven't used, or even considered, a MOT part of any sort since '94. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Uban" To: Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 10:59 PM Subject: Re: windowed MC68HSR705J1ACS ? > I'm after the 20-pin DIP ceramic windowed part vs. the OTP part. The part > number that I indicated (MC68HC705J1ACS) should be the one which matches > what I am looking for. No one seems to have them, including the places > that you reference, at *any* price. > > --tom > > At 09:10 PM 1/21/02 -0700, you wrote: > >I'm not at all convinced I know what you're after. The 20-pin 68HC705 parts > >with which I'm familiar are the MC68HC705J1A which comes in a number of > >packages, one of which is the ceraminc windowed part. I don't think these > are > >unavailable in distribution, though I've never gotten one for less than $60. > >I think the last place I saw them for sale was Future-Active electronics. > >www.future-active.com, though things change, and a quick look didn't show > that > >part. ISTR that DigiKey had the windowed parts too at one time. > > > >Dick > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Tom Uban" > >To: > >Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 7:11 PM > >Subject: windowed MC68HSR705J1ACS ? > > > > > >> I am looking for a source for a MC68HSR705J1ACS Motorola 20 pin DIP > >> with window (erasable) MC68HC701J1A microprocessor. I have only been > >> able to find the OTP versions, but would like to find an erasable > >> one for development. Does anyone know of a source, or have one (or 2) > >> that you would be willing to sell me? > >> > >> --tnx > >> --tom > >> > >> > > > > > > > > From rhblakeman at kih.net Tue Jan 22 09:41:55 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 server In-Reply-To: <20020122145807.91061.qmail@web14501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I hear that on the video, done it with all of my servers. Normally I run a workstation on a KVM next to the server with great video and use a cheap baseline vard in the servers, like my old Dell 4066/XE 486 server. I did upgrade the ram on the video and it works fien for server apps but the card that came in my server 320 stunk so I put a better 2mb SVGA in it. This has 512mb in it alrwady and I plan on trying for more, regardless of the wattage/power consumption. Power here is cheap and the better system I have the more I can learn and play with it. I'll definitely keep you in mind as my "brain picking" source for the Netserver. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Colin Eby Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 8:58 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 server Russ -- Let me know if you need any other resources for this system. We're still using this model -- after four years of co-habitation, I couldn't know them much better. We have four or five of these, and one ultra-rare LXr-Pro8. I get around to doing a fresh build on them every 4 months or so. That's because they're part of our benchmarking equipment pool. So they get reconfigured very regularly. The performance engineering folks (myself included) use them. And they certainly do perform well, even if they are bordering on classic status. I understand you have a source for manuals already. So anything else you need, please let me know. One word of advice. I'd leave the RAM in. It's the RAM that keeps them running like much newer equipment, since there aren't that many applications that'll peg a quad, even an old one, they'll run best with everything resident in main. Second piece of advice, put a better video card in. There's an embedded one -- but it's a flicker-fest at anything higher than 800x600. Colin Eby Senior Consultant CSC Consulting __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 22 09:45:57 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > I probably wouldn't want to practice by winding a mains winding that's > going to be run unattended. But anyway... I've wound a number of them in the past, including some rather unusual HV stuff for custom equipment. I'd certainly double check my work with a meter, but I'd be ok with it. > David Gingery (I think, maybe Vincent Gingery -- AFAIK they are father > and son) has written a book called something like 'Build a Universal > Coil Winder'. I've not read it, and I've certainly not tried to build > the device, but if it's anything like his other 'build your own exotic > tools' books, then it'll be a design that will work as described, and > will also be a good starting point for your own mods (hackers never > follow instructions, right :-)). > > You might want to see if you can get a copy of this book... I'll search around and see if I can find it. The only true hand winder I've found online is this one: http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Workshop/advice/coils/winder1.html http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Workshop/advice/coils/about_winder.html Ideally, thats the type of machine I'd like to find or build. -Toth From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Jan 22 09:59:23 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: windowed MC68HSR705J1ACS ? In-Reply-To: <001601c1a359$282959e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <3.0.5.32.20020121201140.007b3dc0@ubanproductions.com> <3.0.5.32.20020121235935.00962520@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020122095923.009728c0@ubanproductions.com> At 08:26 AM 1/22/02 -0700, you wrote: >These parts have been discontinued by Motorola for about 5 years, so I'm not >surprised you're having difficulty finding them. That "SR" in the part number >disturbs me somewhat as well, as it's not on any of the windowed parts I have, >and I don't think they made two 20-pin windowed parts. I'm also not sure what >the MC68HC701J1A has to do with any of this. The '701 is a much older part >that never came in a 20-pin version, and, I don't think ever came in an 'HC >version either. Opps, my mistake. I said 705 in both the subject and all but one place in my message. I did not mean to type 701... >Perhaps the nomenclature is screwing up your search. I'm not sure what the >correct part number for the ceramic windowed package is, but I'm not at all >sure that MC68HC705J1ACS is it. I could go look, I suppose, but it's an >easter-egg hunt, so it might take some time. If you find the right >parts-search engine, it will turn up a supply of these parts, but not at >"cheap" prices. I found 'em a couple of weeks back, after getting a spam from >a "new" parts-search site. I have them look for Z84C0020 and MC68HC705J1A >just to see what they turn up, and I was surprised to find that they had >pointers to supply of both, not that I want to buy either. I am only using the ACS suffix for the windowed part as that is what the motorola web page says for ordering information: http://e-www.motorola.com/brdata/PDFDB/docs/MC68HC705J1A.pdf It may be that the AS or AVS is correct as well. All that I care is that it is a 68HC705J1A in a ceramic DIP windowed 20-pin package. >If you're really determined to use the 20-pin part, there are a couple of >current 'HC805 and 'HC908 parts that might work for you. Mot has been trying >quite actively to kill off the 'HC05 series, but it seemingly refuses to die. My project is to re-program an existing board which uses the 'HC705J1A, but if I have to, I can switch to a similar and available part. I don't plan on making a product with the part, so availability is not a big deal. I just want to change the program in an existing board. I have a 'HC705K1 programmer which I am hoping will program the 'HC705J1A part. The only difference seems to be the number of I/O pins. >I remember the MOT guys discouraging me from using the 'HC705K1 (16 pins) back >in '94. They didn[t have a 16-pin replacement from the 'HC805 series at the >time so I used it anyway, but I also bought into the 20-pin part, since that >was still available. I've come to regret that, however. It didn't matter, >since management killed the project, but that was the last time I bought any >of the MOT MCU's. My experience has been that they don't tell the truth about >supply, and they won't support you at volumes under 100K parts per week. They >use distributors who won't supply you at levels like 200 per week, either, so >most of my clients are screwed with MOT parts. Consequently, I haven't used, >or even considered, a MOT part of any sort since '94. > >Dick --tom >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tom Uban" >To: >Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 10:59 PM >Subject: Re: windowed MC68HSR705J1ACS ? > > >> I'm after the 20-pin DIP ceramic windowed part vs. the OTP part. The part >> number that I indicated (MC68HC705J1ACS) should be the one which matches >> what I am looking for. No one seems to have them, including the places >> that you reference, at *any* price. >> >> --tom >> >> At 09:10 PM 1/21/02 -0700, you wrote: >> >I'm not at all convinced I know what you're after. The 20-pin 68HC705 >parts >> >with which I'm familiar are the MC68HC705J1A which comes in a number of >> >packages, one of which is the ceraminc windowed part. I don't think these >> are >> >unavailable in distribution, though I've never gotten one for less than >$60. >> >I think the last place I saw them for sale was Future-Active electronics. >> >www.future-active.com, though things change, and a quick look didn't show >> that >> >part. ISTR that DigiKey had the windowed parts too at one time. >> > >> >Dick >> > >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: "Tom Uban" >> >To: >> >Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 7:11 PM >> >Subject: windowed MC68HSR705J1ACS ? >> > >> > >> >> I am looking for a source for a MC68HSR705J1ACS Motorola 20 pin DIP >> >> with window (erasable) MC68HC701J1A microprocessor. I have only been >> >> able to find the OTP versions, but would like to find an erasable >> >> one for development. Does anyone know of a source, or have one (or 2) >> >> that you would be willing to sell me? >> >> >> >> --tnx >> >> --tom >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > > From jss at subatomix.com Tue Jan 22 09:58:04 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: boot sector In-Reply-To: <12b.b06100b.297eb3c9@aol.com> Message-ID: <20020122093320.J1755-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Here's a boot sector I whipped up that helps me run a dual-boot FreeBSD/Windows system using NTLDR with much elegance. It is derived from a boot sector I wrote for a mystery OS, and includes a debug routine that isn't used but was left in there because I was proud of it. I haven't looked at this in quite a while, but it works. It is in NASM (not MASM) syntax. ;;; =========================================================================== ;;; This is the source to a fake boot sector to help the Windows NT bootloader, ;;; ntldr, load other operating systems. All this does is load the "real" boot ;;; sector from a drive and pass control to it. The drive number is hard-coded ;;; by the DRIVE %define below. You need NASM to assemble this file. ;;; =========================================================================== ;; BIOS drive number to load from %define DRIVE 0x80 ; <---- CHANGE FOR EACH BOOT SECTOR NEEDED ;; I hate "jmp short" %macro jmps 1 jmp short %1 %endmacro ;; Where we want to be org 0x7E00 ;;; =========================================================================== ;;; CODE ;;; =========================================================================== ;; Setup stack, move code somewhere else, and jump there cli xor ax, ax mov ds, ax mov es, ax mov ss, ax mov sp, 0x7C00 mov si, sp mov di, 0x7E00 mov cx, 0x0100 cld rep movsw jmp moved + 0x200 moved: sti ;; Reset drive mov dl, DRIVE int 0x13 jc error ;; Load real boot sector mov ax, 0x0201 mov bx, 0x7C00 mov cx, 0x0001 mov dh, ch mov dl, DRIVE int 0x13 jc error ;; Jump to real boot sector mov dl, DRIVE jmp 0x7C00 ;; In case of error, print msg and lock up error: mov si, errmsg call print jmps lockup ;; debug ;; Print the value of the registers and wait for a keystroke debug: push ax push cx push dx push bp pusha push ds push es push cs push ss mov bp, sp add bp, 22 mov si, regs .reg: call print mov cx, 4 ; print 4 digits mov dx, [bp] ; load word into dx .digit: rol dx, 4 ; rotate so that lowest 4 bits are used mov ax, 0x0E0F ; ah = request, al = mask for nybble and al, dl add al, 0x90 ; convert al to hex digits in ASCII daa adc al, 0x40 daa int 0x10 loop .digit cmp bp, sp je .done sub bp, 2 jmps .reg .done: call print add sp, 24 xor ax, ax int 0x16 pop bp pop dx pop cx pop ax ret ;;; print ;;; prints the zero-terminated string pointed to by SI. print: push ax push bx mov ah, 0x0E xor bx, bx .char: lodsb or al, al jz .done int 0x10 jmps .char .done: pop bx pop ax ret ;; lockup ;; Locks the machine way up. lockup: hlt jmps lockup ;;; =========================================================================== ;;; DATA ;;; =========================================================================== ;; Error message errmsg: db 'Error reading boot sector. System halted.', 0 ;; Register names regs: db 13, 10, "AX=", 0 db 13, 10, "CX=", 0 db 13, 10, "DX=", 0 db 13, 10, "BX=", 0 db 13, 10, "SP=", 0 db 13, 10, "BP=", 0 db 13, 10, "SI=", 0 db 13, 10, "DI=", 0 db 13, 10, "DS=", 0 db 13, 10, "ES=", 0 db 13, 10, "CS=", 0 db 13, 10, "SS=", 0 db 13, 10, 0 ;; Zero-padding to 512 bytes pad: times 510-($-$$) db 0x00 ;; Magic boot sector number magic: dw 0xAA55 -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jan 22 10:12:28 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: HP 9000 800/G40 serial cable Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E162@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Hi everybody, I've got a new project. An HP 9000/G40, which may not be (probably is not) 10 years old, but there's little information available on HP's site (that I can find), or any other, and I rescued it from a scrap yard, which may make it on topic anyway. I wonder if anyone can tell me how to get the cable that plugs into the mini-DIN looking port so that I can see the boot messages and talk to it? Also, where can I get information on this machine? (Max memory, number of CPUs, etc...) Thanks, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jan 22 10:28:48 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: windowed MC68HSR705J1ACS ? References: <3.0.5.32.20020121201140.007b3dc0@ubanproductions.com> <3.0.5.32.20020121235935.00962520@ubanproductions.com> <3.0.5.32.20020122095923.009728c0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <000901c1a361$df0841a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Uban" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 8:59 AM Subject: Re: windowed MC68HSR705J1ACS ? > At 08:26 AM 1/22/02 -0700, you wrote: > >These parts have been discontinued by Motorola for about 5 years, so I'm not > >surprised you're having difficulty finding them. That "SR" in the part > number > >disturbs me somewhat as well, as it's not on any of the windowed parts I > have, > >and I don't think they made two 20-pin windowed parts. I'm also not sure > what > >the MC68HC701J1A has to do with any of this. The '701 is a much older part > >that never came in a 20-pin version, and, I don't think ever came in an 'HC > >version either. > > Oops, my mistake. I said 705 in both the subject and all but one place in > my message. I did not mean to type 701... > > >Perhaps the nomenclature is screwing up your search. I'm not sure what the > >correct part number for the ceramic windowed package is, but I'm not at all > >sure that MC68HC705J1ACS is it. I could go look, I suppose, but it's an > >easter-egg hunt, so it might take some time. If you find the right > >parts-search engine, it will turn up a supply of these parts, but not at > >"cheap" prices. I found 'em a couple of weeks back, after getting a spam > from > >a "new" parts-search site. I have them look for Z84C0020 and MC68HC705J1A > >just to see what they turn up, and I was surprised to find that they had > >pointers to supply of both, not that I want to buy either. > > I am only using the ACS suffix for the windowed part as that is what the > motorola web page says for ordering information: > http://e-www.motorola.com/brdata/PDFDB/docs/MC68HC705J1A.pdf > It may be that the AS or AVS is correct as well. All that I care is that > it is a 68HC705J1A in a ceramic DIP windowed 20-pin package. > I'd recommend you build an adapter that uses a currently available part and uses a currently available programmer. I think you're out of luck, or at least looking at a hard time, both with getting the windowed J1A, and with making the K1 programmer work with the J1A. Keep in mind that the programmers that MOT sold were quite different, and both were firmware based, using an OTP J1A on the board. > > >If you're really determined to use the 20-pin part, there are a couple of > >current 'HC805 and 'HC908 parts that might work for you. Mot has been trying > >quite actively to kill off the 'HC05 series, but it seemingly refuses to die. > > My project is to re-program an existing board which uses the 'HC705J1A, but > if I have to, I can switch to a similar and available part. I don't plan on > making a product with the part, so availability is not a big deal. I just > want to change the program in an existing board. I have a 'HC705K1 programmer > which I am hoping will program the 'HC705J1A part. The only difference seems > to be the number of I/O pins. > The one thing on which I'm quite certain you can rely is that the 'K1 programmer won't deal with the J1A. If the 'K1 programmer would have done the job, I'd not have bought the J1A programmer/emulator. It should be quite obvious, however, since the K1 is a 16-pin part and the J1A is a 20-pin part. While the voltages may possibly be the same, though I doubt it, (there was also a different programmer/emulator for the K1A) the pins to which they've got to be applied are not. The size of the program store is also different. Since the software that does the dirty work comes from a third-party through MOTOROLA, and since they get paid for making DIFFERENT devices, I'd not rely on any similarities, particularly in the [rpgramming software. > > >I remember the MOT guys discouraging me from using the 'HC705K1 (16 pins) > back > >in '94. They didn't have a 16-pin replacement from the 'HC805 series at the > > > >Dick > > --tom > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Tom Uban" > >To: > >Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 10:59 PM > >Subject: Re: windowed MC68HSR705J1ACS ? > > > > > >> I'm after the 20-pin DIP ceramic windowed part vs. the OTP part. The part > >> number that I indicated (MC68HC705J1ACS) should be the one which matches > >> what I am looking for. No one seems to have them, including the places > >> that you reference, at *any* price. > >> > >> --tom > >> > >> At 09:10 PM 1/21/02 -0700, you wrote: > >> >I'm not at all convinced I know what you're after. The 20-pin 68HC705 > >parts > >> >with which I'm familiar are the MC68HC705J1A which comes in a number of > >> >packages, one of which is the ceraminc windowed part. I don't think these > >> are > >> >unavailable in distribution, though I've never gotten one for less than > >$60. > >> >I think the last place I saw them for sale was Future-Active electronics. > >> >www.future-active.com, though things change, and a quick look didn't show > >> that > >> >part. ISTR that DigiKey had the windowed parts too at one time. > >> > > >> >Dick > >> > > >> >----- Original Message ----- > >> >From: "Tom Uban" > >> >To: > >> >Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 7:11 PM > >> >Subject: windowed MC68HSR705J1ACS ? > >> > > >> > > >> >> I am looking for a source for a MC68HSR705J1ACS Motorola 20 pin DIP > >> >> with window (erasable) MC68HC701J1A microprocessor. I have only been > >> >> able to find the OTP versions, but would like to find an erasable > >> >> one for development. Does anyone know of a source, or have one (or 2) > >> >> that you would be willing to sell me? > >> >> > >> >> --tnx > >> >> --tom > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jan 22 10:57:19 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: Sea Container Spelunking (Terminal Junkie Part Two) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225D37@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > containers. I half expected to find some ex-colleagues preserved in > aspic. "Oh, John? No, he never _really_ left. No one ever does". Aspic isn't a preservative, it's a sauce... Haven't you ever had Lark's Tongues in Aspic? ;) -dq From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Jan 22 11:14:20 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: [Mike.Morisky@Unisys.Com: PDP-11 system available for surplus] Message-ID: <20020122171420.GS21542@mrbill.net> PDP 11/44s available in San Diego. Please contact Mike directly. Bill ----- Forwarded message from "Morisky, Mike" ----- From: "Morisky, Mike" To: "'mrbill@pdp11.org'" Subject: PDP-11 system available for surplus Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:11:18 -0600 We have 2 complete, functional PDP-11/44 systems, spare parts, and approximately 15 RL02 disk packs ready for surplus. Are you aware of any interested parties? We are willing to make this available at little or no cost to the interested party. Michael G. Morisky Unisys Site Services Engineering San Diego, CA 92127 Voice: 858.451.4167 FAX: 858.451.4449 ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Tue Jan 22 11:16:15 2002 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: HP 9000 800/G40 serial cable In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E162@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E162@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: 1 cpu...64mhz pa7000 I believe. I've got one running in our datacenter downstairs. -Bob >Hi everybody, > >I've got a new project. An HP 9000/G40, which may not be (probably >is not) 10 years old, but there's little information available on >HP's site (that I can find), or any other, and I rescued it from a >scrap yard, which may make it on topic anyway. > >I wonder if anyone can tell me how to get the cable that plugs into >the mini-DIN looking port so that I can see the boot messages and >talk to it? > >Also, where can I get information on this machine? (Max memory, >number of CPUs, etc...) > >Thanks, > >Chris > >Christopher Smith, Perl Developer >Amdocs - Champaign, IL > >/usr/bin/perl -e ' >print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); >' > bbrown@harper.cc.il.us #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 22 11:17:40 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: VAXstation newbie In-Reply-To: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021A47@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> Message-ID: <20020122171740.39262.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- Adrian Graham wrote: > ISTR No VMS distro was available on floppy, the only VMS floppies I can > remember were boot disks for MicroVMS round V4.x. I have VMS 5.0 on RX50 diskettes. We had a MicroVAX-I that we bought new at work ($10,000) and another that we bought shortly thereafter and upgraded to a MicroVAX-II ($17,000 for hardware and VMS license upgrade). We continued to receive MicroVMS and VMS distributions on floppy until some point after 5.0, when DEC switched us to TK50 (good thing, too... the RX50 distro is a wad of disks). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From celigne at tinyworld.co.uk Tue Jan 22 11:41:23 2002 From: celigne at tinyworld.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: Sea Container Spelunking (Terminal Junkie Part Two) References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E15F@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <3C4DA443.9BCB4F76@tinyworld.co.uk> Christopher Smith wrote: > > Ok, I have an ADM-5 with one of these "Retrographics" add-ons. Can > anybody tell me what they do? The Retrographics card adds Tektronix graphics capability to the text terminal it is fitted to. It fits between the serial port and the terminal's main board and intercepts incoming characters. It will normally pass incoming characters straight to the main board, but when it sees the Tektronix start code, it will start processing the incoming characters as graphics commands and updating its own video RAM. The video output of this card and the main board are overlaid. Try testing your card by typing: Ctrl-] to enter Vector Mode. space ` space @ [initialize to (0,0)] 8 k space @ [draw to (0,779)] 8 k ? RUB [draw to (1023,779)] space ` ? RUB [draw to (1023,0)] space ` space @ [draw to (0,0)] 8 k ? RUB [draw to (1023,779)] space ` ? RUB [draw to (1023, 0)] 8 k space @ [draw to (0,779)] This should draw a rectangle with diagonals. - Paul From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jan 22 11:53:48 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: Sea Container Spelunking (Terminal Junkie Part Two) In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225D37@jeffserver.tegjeff. com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020122115249.0234a008@pc> At 11:57 AM 1/22/2002 -0500, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: >> containers. I half expected to find some ex-colleagues preserved in >> aspic. "Oh, John? No, he never _really_ left. No one ever does". > >Aspic isn't a preservative, it's a sauce... No, it's the precursor of Jello. It's generally transparent to amber, though. - John From marvin at rain.org Tue Jan 22 12:26:47 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:51 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day Message-ID: <3C4DAEE7.ABF1EFC9@rain.org> This may be a bit off topic, but Yahoo is having a Free Listing Day on January 24th thus reducing their already reasonable rates :). They do have a Vintage classification and I expect to have some "stuff" there. Yahoo has the facilities in place to handle a large number of auctions, and with ebay continuing its direction towards retail, collectables need a site that *wants* them. From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jan 22 12:44:23 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple IIe Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E179@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Hi everybody. I've rescued a Bell & Howell Apple IIe (black, of course) just yesterday. Can anyone tell me anything about what these things were used for, what I can expect to find in the machine, etc, etc? I haven't even cleaned off the dust yet, but I vaguely recall that these were sold for some specific purpose. If so, what were they for? Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From brian at quarterbyte.com Tue Jan 22 13:01:34 2002 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: Documation M600L - HP 2893A Card Reader Message-ID: <3C4D468E.23440.3841110@localhost> I just picked up an HP 2893A punched card reader on eBay -- it appears to be an HP-badged Documation M600L. I haven't been able to find any documentation for it on the web. Does anyone have any info on this or similar card readers? Is it similar to any of the DEC-badged CR11 readers? Any help, especially interfacing info, will be appreciated, thanks, Brian From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 22 13:12:05 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple IIe In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E179@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > I've rescued a Bell & Howell Apple IIe (black, of course) just > yesterday. Does it have the later IIe style case with D-Sub cutouts, or does it have slots in the back panel like the II/II+? I never have had a good look at one of the IIe machines marketed by them. > Can anyone tell me anything about what these things were used for, > what I can expect to find in the machine, etc, etc? I would expect it to be a typical IIe in a black case :) > I haven't even cleaned off the dust yet, but I vaguely recall that > these were sold for some specific purpose. If so, what were they for? These machines were sold primarily to businesses and schools. Bell & Howell marketed audio/video and other electronic equipment to such places, so they were a well known brand. -Toth From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jan 22 13:42:16 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: Security bits In-Reply-To: Tothwolf "Re: Security bits" (Jan 22, 9:37) References: Message-ID: <10201221942.ZM12752@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 22, 9:37, Tothwolf wrote: > On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > There are some security screws it doesn't cover. Most notably, 'System > > Zero', which is commonly used in electronic and computer equipment. I've > > found modems assembled with those, for what reason nobody seems to know... > > What do these look like? Are they the ones with a raised line across the > head of the screw? They look like a Torx screw head turned inside out. Imagine something between a pan head and a round head (ie slightly domed) with six small notches in the edge. The sides are sloping/curved and they're usually hardened, and the edges of the notches are slightly rounded off so you can't get a grip with pliers. There's a picture at http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/zeroscrew.jpg -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From mythtech at Mac.com Tue Jan 22 14:17:35 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: Security bits Message-ID: >They look like a Torx screw head turned inside out. Imagine something >between a pan head and a round head (ie slightly domed) with six small >notches in the edge. The sides are sloping/curved and they're usually >hardened, and the edges of the notches are slightly rounded off so you >can't get a grip with pliers. There's a picture at >http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/zeroscrew.jpg MCM sells bits for this. They market them as "Nintendo Type Screws" or something like that, and say they are used to open NES Games (and is just what I bought mine for... to replace the battery in a Monopoly cart). IIRC, they sold the two different sizes I have as a single pack. -chris From donm at cts.com Tue Jan 22 13:44:46 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: DC-100 cartridge tapes wanted In-Reply-To: <200201221123.g0MBNZl23512@oscar.open.com.au> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Mike McCauley wrote: > Hi all, > > Im looking for DC-100 cartridge tapes to use with my Tek 4041 GPIB > controller. I think HP also used to use them a lot? Dont care about the tape > length, just the mechanical size. Have you tried something like the DC-2000 which are rather higher capacity but the same cartridge, I believe. - don > Anyone (preferably in Australia) have a small number surplus to requirements? > > Cheers. > > > -- > Mike McCauley mikem@open.com.au > Open System Consultants Pty. Ltd Unix, Perl, Motif, C++, WWW > 24 Bateman St Hampton, VIC 3188 Australia http://www.open.com.au > Phone +61 3 9598-0985 Fax +61 3 9598-0955 > > Radiator: the most portable, flexible and configurable RADIUS server > anywhere. SQL, proxy, DBM, files, LDAP, NIS+, password, NT, Emerald, > Platypus, Freeside, TACACS+, PAM, external, Active Directory etc etc > on Unix, Win95/8, 2000, NT, MacOS 9, MacOS X > From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue Jan 22 14:01:00 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: Paging - Sellam Ismail Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E587A1A0@MAIL10> I'm having trouble getting to Sellam via email. Sellam, if you're there, please email me. Thanks. Thanks for the bandwidth. ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 22 14:46:59 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: RFC; Request For Coaching. Was RE: RT 6150 Docs (and mouse??) In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E160@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: Update / Progress Report.... Before I head down to the garage for the 3rd box of 1.2M floppies.... On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > > Oh, yeah, I almost forgot. I had to remove the SIIG 8-bit > > serial/parallel card before the poor guy could boot at all. > > First thing to check is whether it will work in a different slot. Some > busses are very picky, Nah, that SIIG card is c. 1988 or so, and I believe my early-RS6k serial cables are the right pinout for the builtin S1 & S2. > > With just the good disk attached, the AOS miniroot gets adapter > > time-outs from the EESDI adapter, and reboots endlessly. The > > stand-alone > > utility won't accept any device name I can come up with - /dev/hdc0, > > /dev/hd0, hdc0, hd0, 0, slave 0 - to format the disk. > > Probably more like rdT0 or rhdT0 (where T is a type of drive... or not there at all), or > rd0s0d0. Turned out to be "hd(0,0)" for the AOS utilities and "0" (D'OH!!) in AIX... > > > Also note that early version of AIX were much more like > > "something strange" > > than they were like normal Unix. From what I've heard they > > > I dunno. Modern AIX is 'much more like "something strange"' than it > > is like modern Unix.... > > Well, ok, but my point was that they're supposed to be _more_ strange. :) Yes, I figured that, but I couldn't resist. And I settled on AIX, mostly because my boss was doing R&D at TJ Watson when this puppy was built. He doesn't collect, but I think he'll get a charge when he sees it. And Dude, I'm sorry, but you really NEED to go find the IDG Outlook Distress book or something. Line wraps, my man, line wraps. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 22 14:59:05 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: RFC; Request For Coaching. Was RE: RT 6150 Docs (and mouse??) In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E160@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: Whadda'ya MEAN, "smit: not found" !!! I like it already. So do y'all want the blow-by-blow, or the "it looks like working"? Doc From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Jan 22 13:38:37 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple IIe Message-ID: <9d.21e8270c.297f19bd@aol.com> In a message dated 1/22/2002 12:50:55 PM Central Standard Time, csmith@amdocs.com writes: > Hi everybody. > > I've rescued a Bell & Howell Apple IIe (black, of course) just yesterday. > > Can anyone tell me anything about what these things were used for, what I > can expect to > find in the machine, etc, etc? > > I haven't even cleaned off the dust yet, but I vaguely recall that these > were sold for > some specific purpose. If so, what were they for? > cool machine. other than an oringinal umodified apple ][ that's the only apple I want now. Even though I work at B+H, nobody even knows about them. heh. -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020122/01908731/attachment.html From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jan 22 13:41:15 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple IIe Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E17C@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] > Does it have the later IIe style case with D-Sub cutouts, or > does it have > slots in the back panel like the II/II+? I never have had a > good look at > one of the IIe machines marketed by them. It has D-sub cutouts. > I would expect it to be a typical IIe in a black case :) So far, but it has a strange "box" attached to the back... > These machines were sold primarily to businesses and schools. Bell & > Howell marketed audio/video and other electronic equipment to > such places, > so they were a well known brand. The above mentioned "box" seems to have some sort of audio amplification stuff in it, actually. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From at258 at osfn.org Tue Jan 22 13:51:11 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple IIe In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E179@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: I think they are II+'s, and were for audio-visual presentations. On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > Hi everybody. > > I've rescued a Bell & Howell Apple IIe (black, of course) just yesterday. > > Can anyone tell me anything about what these things were used for, what I can expect to > find in the machine, etc, etc? > > I haven't even cleaned off the dust yet, but I vaguely recall that these were sold for > some specific purpose. If so, what were they for? > > Regards, > > Chris > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From Innfogra at aol.com Tue Jan 22 14:03:41 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple IIe Message-ID: IIRC all of the black apples I saw were IIs and II+s. I think a black IIe would be rare. The audio box on the back was used in a classroom setting to hook each operator to the teacher in an audio network. B&H was a big vendor into the A/V and classroom solution market. Paxton Astoria, OR From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jan 22 14:05:31 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple IIe Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E17D@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> -----Original Message----- From: SUPRDAVE@aol.com [mailto:SUPRDAVE@aol.com] > cool machine. other than an oringinal umodified apple ][ that's the only apple I want now. > Even though I work at B+H, nobody even knows about them. heh. That's pretty funny, but I guess most cool machines end up in the same situation. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jan 22 14:24:18 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple IIe In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E179@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > Hi everybody. > I've rescued a Bell & Howell Apple IIe (black, of course) just yesterday. > Can anyone tell me anything about what these things were used for, what I can expect to > find in the machine, etc, etc? > I haven't even cleaned off the dust yet, but I vaguely recall that these were sold for > some specific purpose. If so, what were they for? To be able to get past the purchasing departments of school districts, who didn't want to buy COMPUTERS (the district already has one), and certainly wouldn't buy something like that from a company named after a fruit. But add it into a LONG list of projectors, and other AV stuff, and it would slide right through. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jan 22 15:04:48 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: Security bits In-Reply-To: Chris "Re: Security bits" (Jan 22, 15:17) References: Message-ID: <10201222104.ZM12838@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 22, 15:17, Chris wrote: > >They look like a Torx screw head turned inside out. > MCM sells bits for this. They market them as "Nintendo Type Screws" or > something like that, and say they are used to open NES Games (and is just > what I bought mine for... to replace the battery in a Monopoly cart). Yes, they're used in Sega cartridges too. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 22 15:15:35 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: Security bits In-Reply-To: <10201221942.ZM12752@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Jan 22, 9:37, Tothwolf wrote: > > On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > There are some security screws it doesn't cover. Most notably, 'System > > > Zero', which is commonly used in electronic and computer equipment. > I've > > > found modems assembled with those, for what reason nobody seems to > know... > > > > What do these look like? Are they the ones with a raised line across the > > head of the screw? > > They look like a Torx screw head turned inside out. Imagine something > between a pan head and a round head (ie slightly domed) with six small > notches in the edge. The sides are sloping/curved and they're usually > hardened, and the edges of the notches are slightly rounded off so you > can't get a grip with pliers. There's a picture at > http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/zeroscrew.jpg Ok, these are also known as "external line head" screws. Some people also refer to the removal bit as a "gamebit". The 33 piece security bit set does not contain bits to fit these, but MCM and many other companies sell them. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 22 15:17:48 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: DC-100 cartridge tapes wanted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Mike McCauley wrote: > > > Im looking for DC-100 cartridge tapes to use with my Tek 4041 GPIB > > controller. I think HP also used to use them a lot? Dont care about the tape > > length, just the mechanical size. > > Have you tried something like the DC-2000 which are rather higher > capacity but the same cartridge, I believe. The DC100 has a smaller form factor IIRC. -Toth From rhblakeman at kih.net Tue Jan 22 15:48:27 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: <3C4DAEE7.ABF1EFC9@rain.org> Message-ID: But the problem with Yahoo is that hardly anyone sells there (in comparison) and that stooooopid auto-continue feature they run has made me and many others pull totally out of Yahoo auctions. Everytime I check for just about anything on ebay I find a deal, on Yahoo I've found one or two things and then when I had sniped the auction it continued for 10 more minutes- that's BS. By the way I normally never bid early- sniping is the only way I go anymore unless buy-it-now is reasonable. Many of the online "retailers" that frequent ebay also have an equal amount of schtuff on Yahoo anymore, same difference but with less to choose from and freaky features. ebay starts charging for buy-it-now...a whopping nickel for each item. I know, 2000 buy-it-now items equals mucho dinero for ebay. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Marvin Johnston Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 12:27 PM To: ClassicCmp Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day This may be a bit off topic, but Yahoo is having a Free Listing Day on January 24th thus reducing their already reasonable rates :). They do have a Vintage classification and I expect to have some "stuff" there. Yahoo has the facilities in place to handle a large number of auctions, and with ebay continuing its direction towards retail, collectables need a site that *wants* them. From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jan 22 15:32:55 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: RFC; Request For Coaching. Was RE: RT 6150 Docs (and mouse??) Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E17E@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > And Dude, I'm sorry, but you really NEED to go find the IDG Outlook > Distress book or something. Line wraps, my man, line wraps. Well, actually, I've found some bits of documentation that say exactly how to make lookout wrap your lines. I've attempted to follow these instructions to the letter, and found that I don't have the right dialog available to do it. :) Chris (Who's really not sure whether to blame microsoft, Amdocs, or the people who wrote the reference) Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Tue Jan 22 21:24:09 2002 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: Info needed on 1702A programmer Message-ID: Hello all, I recently obtained a 1702A EPROM programmer, but it's having some problems. Does anyone have docs or schematics for the following programmer? Tenor Inc, Model 763 Solid State Programmer Other markings: EPROM Loader 763-7-0120, S/N 763 3303 P 1083 See http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1678511077 for pictures. It helps to see the item for the description below... Basically there are 16 switches/LEDs. In Read mode, the LEDs should show the byte values, and in Write mode, the switches select the data, and the LEDs should reflect the data being input. None of the LEDs fire. There is a display for memory location, and it properly resets when "reset" is pressed, and properly increments when "step" is pressed. One other note, the "load" button is supposed to write the data, and advance the memory location display, but the memory location does not advance... I suspect at least the "Read/Write" switch is bad, as it is very mushy feeling, and doesn't seem like it is switching. Perhaps that holds things in some weird state. Standard DPDT, so no big deal to replace. Beyond that, though, I'm at a bit of a loss w/out docs or schematics... Disassembly reveals no blown parts, no smoke marks/burns, and no broken connections.... Thanks! Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jan 22 16:05:29 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: RFC; Request For Coaching. Was RE: RT 6150 Docs (and mouse??) Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467533@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! From: Christopher Smith [mailto:csmith@amdocs.com] ! ! ! > -----Original Message----- ! > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] ! ! > And Dude, I'm sorry, but you really NEED to go find the ! > IDG Outlook ! > Distress book or something. Line wraps, my man, line wraps. ! ! ! Well, actually, I've found some bits of documentation that ! say exactly how ! to make lookout wrap your lines. I've attempted to follow ! these instructions ! to the letter, and found that I don't have the right dialog ! available to do ! it. :) ! ! Chris (Who's really not sure whether to blame microsoft, ! Amdocs, or the ! people who wrote the reference) Chris --- What/where are the instructions? I'd like to try them... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 22 15:16:03 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: 5.25in. Floppies Message-ID: Is it just me, or is there something not-so-subtly ironic and gratifying about a 450mHz desktop with a working 5.25 floppy drive installed? Not to mention the fact that I "just happened to have" enough new DS/HD floppies (~60) for this entire floopy-based (sic) install? And, am I the only one who forgets just what a PITA it is to handle lots of them? Doc From rhblakeman at kih.net Tue Jan 22 15:58:41 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: 5.25in. Floppies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My IBM PC Server 320 has a 1.2mb floppy, my Pentium III-750 has a 1.2mb floppy drive, etc. I have boxes full of DSDD and DSHD floppies, most with old archives that have been stored since the days of SEA's ARC program (before they started in with Phil Katz about his "infringements"). The only odd thing is when the "normal" users have these around. I had a box of 8" on the shelf and of course everyone that comes to the shop HAS to ask what the heck they are. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Doc Shipley Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 3:16 PM To: Classic Computers Subject: 5.25in. Floppies Is it just me, or is there something not-so-subtly ironic and gratifying about a 450mHz desktop with a working 5.25 floppy drive installed? Not to mention the fact that I "just happened to have" enough new DS/HD floppies (~60) for this entire floopy-based (sic) install? And, am I the only one who forgets just what a PITA it is to handle lots of them? Doc From mythtech at Mac.com Tue Jan 22 16:05:21 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: 5.25in. Floppies Message-ID: > Is it just me, or is there something not-so-subtly ironic and >gratifying about a 450mHz desktop with a working 5.25 floppy drive >installed? my 750mhz Athlon has a 3.5/5.25 combo drive in it (both drives in a single half height 5.25 case). I don't think I have used the 5.25 half... but I put it in "just in case". -chris From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 22 16:09:25 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: Security bits In-Reply-To: <10201222104.ZM12838@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Jan 22, 15:17, Chris wrote: > > > MCM sells bits for this. They market them as "Nintendo Type Screws" or > > something like that, and say they are used to open NES Games (and is just > > what I bought mine for... to replace the battery in a Monopoly cart). > > Yes, they're used in Sega cartridges too. NEC also used these screws for the TurboGrafx 16 system. Nintendo used them for all but the earliest games for the original NES system. The N64 and GameCube also use these screws. I sold my TurboGrafx 16 about a year ago, and now wish I hadn't :P -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 22 16:17:53 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: Info needed on 1702A programmer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Rich Beaudry wrote: > I recently obtained a 1702A EPROM programmer, but it's having some problems. > Does anyone have docs or schematics for the following programmer? > > Tenor Inc, Model 763 Solid State Programmer > > Other markings: EPROM Loader 763-7-0120, S/N 763 3303 P 1083 > > See http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1678511077 for > pictures. It helps to see the item for the description below... Wow, I'm glad I kept my old programmer. It has a keypad and binary input instead of micro-switches. It has no means to program devices from a serial input, tho. -Toth From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jan 22 16:23:14 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: Info needed on 1702A programmer References: Message-ID: <000701c1a393$62439200$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You wouldn't have any data on what, exactly, the voltages and timing for the 1702A would be, would you? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 3:17 PM Subject: Re: Info needed on 1702A programmer > On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Rich Beaudry wrote: > > > I recently obtained a 1702A EPROM programmer, but it's having some problems. > > Does anyone have docs or schematics for the following programmer? > > > > Tenor Inc, Model 763 Solid State Programmer > > > > Other markings: EPROM Loader 763-7-0120, S/N 763 3303 P 1083 > > > > See http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1678511077 for > > pictures. It helps to see the item for the description below... > > Wow, I'm glad I kept my old programmer. It has a keypad and binary input > instead of micro-switches. It has no means to program devices from a > serial input, tho. > > -Toth > > From bill_r at inetnebr.com Tue Jan 22 16:18:10 2002 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: Xerox 4050 & IBM PS/2 Model 80 Available Message-ID: The Xerox 4050 is a printer controller, but appears to be some sort of mini-computer with a Xerox logo on it; it has a floppy drive and possibly internal hard drive. If anyone knows anything else about these, info posted to this list would be appreciated. The thing is waiting for pickup by a scrapper, whose truck is currently being repaired. If you get here first, you can have it. It's about the size and weight of a chest freezer. Also available is an IBM PS/2 Model 80-386 micro-channel tower machine. Includes a micro-channel token-ring network card. Both of these items were pulled from use in the last couple of months and should be in good working order. They are available _for_local_pickup_only_ in Lincoln, Nebraska. Drop me a note quick if you want either of them before they go to the big bit-bucket in the sky! Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r Home of Fun with Molten Metal, technological oddities, and the original COSMAC Elf computer simulator! From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jan 22 16:20:34 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: RFC; Request For Coaching. Was RE: RT 6150 Docs (and mouse??) Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E17F@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: David Woyciesjes [mailto:DAW@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu] > What/where are the instructions? I'd like to try them... Here are some. http://www.lemis.com/email/fixing-outlook.html Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 22 16:22:51 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: 5.25in. Floppies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Chris wrote: > my 750mhz Athlon has a 3.5/5.25 combo drive in it (both drives in a > single half height 5.25 case). I don't think I have used the 5.25 half... > but I put it in "just in case". I usually have a 5.25" drive in my PC workstation, but haven't put it back in since I cleaned it. I've only used it twice in the last 3 years. I imagine I'll start using it more when I start setting up the classic machines I've got packed away. -Toth From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Jan 22 16:31:12 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: 5.25in. Floppies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Chris wrote: > > Is it just me, or is there something not-so-subtly ironic and > >gratifying about a 450mHz desktop with a working 5.25 floppy drive > >installed? > > my 750mhz Athlon has a 3.5/5.25 combo drive in it (both drives in a > single half height 5.25 case). I don't think I have used the 5.25 half... > but I put it in "just in case". > > -chris > > Is is just me or isn't a 450-750 milli-hertz box rather slow? I've heard of overclocking modern boxen, but underclocking by nine orders of magnitude? God, and I thought my 8MHz Mac SE was slow... ;-) -- Pat From marvin at rain.org Tue Jan 22 16:37:48 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day References: Message-ID: <3C4DE9BC.F7048345@rain.org> Russ Blakeman wrote: > > But the problem with Yahoo is that hardly anyone sells there (in comparison) > and that stooooopid auto-continue feature they run has made me and many > others pull totally out of Yahoo auctions. Everytime I check for just about > anything on ebay I find a deal, on Yahoo I've found one or two things and > then when I had sniped the auction it continued for 10 more minutes- that's > BS. My understanding is that that auto-extend "feature" is optional; I too just would not bid on auctions that used it. My understanding is that the sell rate on Ebay is around 40% and the sell rate on Yahoo is closer to 10%. Just depends on the type of buyers! > ebay starts charging for buy-it-now...a whopping nickel for each item. I > know, 2000 buy-it-now items equals mucho dinero for ebay. The price increase actually is pretty substantial, in some cases approaching 100% (dutch auctions for example.) And raising the fees with the economy in a recession and after record profits to my mind indicates a greedy company not worth supporting. And with all the new "features" in place to make it harder to use the site, I don't plan on listing or buying there anywhere near what I had planned. Take a look at: http://www.auctionguild.com/ for more information on Ebay problems as well as alternatives. From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Jan 22 16:42:46 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: MCA memory card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Ok. It's the best 16-bit MCA memory card. I believe you can add up to 8 > MB to a system with it. It uses 2MB 85 ns PS/2 SIMMs. It's worth a few > bucks, I guess. Anyone need this thing for a few bucks? Maybe $10 and shipping? Money to go help RCS get back in shape (we have had a bit of a rough spot). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Jan 22 16:43:44 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: MCA memory card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Does that have the 30 pin or 72 pin SIMMs? All I've seen with 6 is the 30 > pinners, and I think they are 16 bit vs 32 bit. Anyway dependant on what it > actually fits it might be worth a couple bucks as some of the ones for the > 8086/8088 and 80286 family are getting harder to find. The board can have eight 30 pin SIMMS. Six are currently installed. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Tue Jan 22 16:38:39 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: Going to the dump... Message-ID: Located in Silver Spring, Maryland. Pick-up only, unless you can really convince me to ship (read $$$). Going to the dump tomorrow afternoon (1/23) unless spoken for: 1) TeleVideo Tele-XT. Flakey power supply. Physically OK... all parts present. No software or docs. 2) Heathkit Model IO-4550, 10MHz, Dual-Trace oscilloscope. Physically good, electronically unknown condition. No probes, some docs. 3) Hickok Teaching Systems Model OSK-4 D.C. Wide-Band oscilloscope. This guy is tube (valve) based! Physically OK (a little rust and dirt, missing "DC Bal." knob), electronically unknown condition. Some probes, no docs. 4) A mangy crate, with handle and casters, designed to hold a Teletype Model 33 KSR. Maybe made by Teletype but no markings to that effect. Didn't protect its last occupant very well. 5) A Compaq DeskPro 286e in original box. Good physical shape, unknown operational condition. You may end up with other stuff if you drop by, being unemployed is forcing me to clean up my basement. Please contact me before stopping by. From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 22 16:57:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: Info needed on 1702A programmer In-Reply-To: <000701c1a393$62439200$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Rich Beaudry wrote: > > > > > See http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1678511077 for > > > pictures. It helps to see the item for the description below... > > > > Wow, I'm glad I kept my old programmer. It has a keypad and binary input > > instead of micro-switches. It has no means to program devices from a > > serial input, tho. > > You wouldn't have any data on what, exactly, the voltages and timing > for the 1702A would be, would you? I have no idea what it uses as far as voltage and timing. The more I think about it, I'm not even sure if it can program 1702 devices. I'll have to dig it out and see what it can do. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 22 17:02:16 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: Xerox 4050 & IBM PS/2 Model 80 Available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Bill Richman wrote: > The Xerox 4050 is a printer controller, but appears to be some sort of > mini-computer with a Xerox logo on it; it has a floppy drive and > possibly internal hard drive. If anyone knows anything else about > these, info posted to this list would be appreciated. The thing is > waiting for pickup by a scrapper, whose truck is currently being > repaired. If you get here first, you can have it. It's about the > size and weight of a chest freezer. I think I have some disks somewhere for one of these. They are 8" disks, but I *might* have reformatted them for another system. Does this machine use 8" disks? > Also available is an IBM PS/2 Model 80-386 micro-channel tower > machine. Includes a micro-channel token-ring network card. I'd like to get one of these, but they are too big/heavy to ship. > Both of these items were pulled from use in the last couple of months > and should be in good working order. They are available > _for_local_pickup_only_ in Lincoln, Nebraska. Drop me a note quick if > you want either of them before they go to the big bit-bucket in the > sky! Gotta be someone here on the list that has some interest in this gear, don't let the scrapper get it ;) -Toth From mythtech at Mac.com Tue Jan 22 16:59:23 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: 5.25in. Floppies Message-ID: >Is is just me or isn't a 450-750 milli-hertz box rather slow? I've heard >of overclocking modern boxen, but underclocking by nine orders of >magnitude? God, and I thought my 8MHz Mac SE was slow... ;-) ROFL... oh the difference changing case of a letter can make! -chris From donm at cts.com Tue Jan 22 16:54:52 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: DC-100 cartridge tapes wanted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > > On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Mike McCauley wrote: > > > > > Im looking for DC-100 cartridge tapes to use with my Tek 4041 GPIB > > > controller. I think HP also used to use them a lot? Dont care about the tape > > > length, just the mechanical size. > > > > Have you tried something like the DC-2000 which are rather higher > > capacity but the same cartridge, I believe. > > The DC100 has a smaller form factor IIRC. > > -Toth You may be correct. I have a few DC-100s around, but presently inaccessible, so I cannot compare. - don From rod.young at sk.sympatico.ca Tue Jan 22 16:37:47 2002 From: rod.young at sk.sympatico.ca (R.Y.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: TTi 8510 tape drive References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020120215259.0282ec50@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <3C4DE9BB.BEA316FC@sk.sympatico.ca> Yes, it's an 8500 with tape reamining displays, etc, and a bunch of dip switches for various emulations on the back... I'm looking to make it a TK-50 (which it can do, with the right combination of switches) Geoff Reed wrote: > It's pretty much just an Exabyte 8500 in a fancy extranl case, isn't it? I > have a TTi 8210 and that's all it is.... > > At 12:48 PM 1/20/02 -0600, you wrote: > >Can't find the TTi (tape drive) system site? Did they go away? > > > >Anyone have a pointer to an 8510 manual or an electronic copy? > > > >thanks > >rod From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 22 17:13:48 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: Going to the dump... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > Located in Silver Spring, Maryland. > Pick-up only, unless you can really convince me to > ship (read $$$). Going to the dump tomorrow > afternoon (1/23) unless spoken for: The old scopes are certainly worth saving, and there is a demand for them for day to day use as well as collectors items. Someone here might want to post this to sci.electronics.repair, as there may be someone there interested in some or all of this stuff. -Toth From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Tue Jan 22 21:13:33 2002 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: [A bit long] Stuff for sale... Message-ID: Yes, it's cleanout time again... Some of it is off-topic (not classic enough), so bear with it :-) I will take bids on these items until Thursday midnight, to give international and digest users time to jump in. High bid gets it, and $0.00, as usual, is a valid bid. In the case of multiple winners, I will draw names out of a hat, utilizing the state of the art in Apple II randomizing software :-) Shipping will be from Westminster, MA, USA (ZIP code 01473). Domestic bidders can choose from USPS Priority Mail, Parcel Post, or Media Mail. International items will be shipped Surface Mail, Air Mail, or Global Priority Mail, at bidders discretion. Hardware was working when pulled, but some have not been tested in a long time, so it is sold as-is... Email me any questions if you have them... - Morrow ThinkerToys S-100 Synchrofresh VIII Econoram III -- 16 RM1701G-20 chips, D/C 76 and 78 with manual - Dynabyte S-100 Dual Density Floppy Disk Controller -- two board set, Interface board only has 5.25" connector installed (space for 8" cable has no connector). With manual (copy), no cables (needs 50-pin between two boards). - Tatrbell S-100 CPU/IO Board 3033 (Z-80) with manual (copy) - Problem Solver Systems S-100 PSS RAM16 Static RAM Board -- With copy of manual, all sockets/regulators/caps, but no chips installed - Vector 8803 BARE S-100 motherboard -- No docs, no sockets, board only - Tandem TCL2M RS232 to Current Loop converter -- Looks like a gender changer, male RS232, female current loop, 25 pins each - Black Box 232/CL-E RS232 to Current Loop adapter -- modem-sized box - Apple Macintosh HyperCard User's Guide, 1988 - Apple Macintosh HyperTalk Beginner's Guide: An Introduction to Scripting, 1989 - IBM Guide to Operations, Personal Computer XT Model 286 -- with diskette (untested) - TI TMS990 Microcomputer System Programming Card (tri-fold, approx 6" x 3" folded) - TI TMS9900 Microprocessor Data Manual, August 1978 - Digital Research CP/M 2.2 manuals -- User's Guide, Intro to CP/M Features and Facilities, ASM User's Guide, ED User's Manual, DDT User's Guide, Interface Guide, Alteration Guide - Tektronix 834 Programmable Data Communications Tester manual - Oracle JDeveloper 3 Handbook, published 2001 - JSP: Java Server Pages, published 2001 - Reply DOS-on-Power-Mac Dos compatible card for Power Mac and Performa 52XX, 53XX, 62XX, 63XX computers. W/ manual, setup floppies, DOS 6.22 floppies, Win 95 CD, cables -- NOTE: REQUIRES a PDS slot. My Performa 6360 has a PCI slot, and not a PDS... - Ithaca Intersystems "User Manual" binder -- System Overview, Digital Research CP/M manuals, Interpak Utilities User Manual, Intersystems Policies - Ithaca Intersystems "Hardware Manual" binder -- Ithaca 800 Hardware Overview, XPU-80 manual, 64KDR (64K DRAM) manual w/ schematic, FDC-2 Double Density Floppy Controller manual w/ schematic, 6SIO Serial I/O manual w/ schematic, DPS Front Panel manual w/ schematic and assembly drawing - ZDS Z-150 backplane -- 85-2964-1 -- 8-bit ISA 8 slot backplane - ZDS Z-150 Video Board -- 85-2945-1 - ZDS Z-150 Memory Board -- 85-2891-1 - ZDS Z-150 Disk Controller Board -- 85-2890-1 - ZDS Z-150 CPU Board -- 85-2889-1 - Heath/ZDS MS-DOS Version 3, Volume II (command summaries and descriptions) - Heath/ZDS Computer Innovations, Inc. Optimizing C86 Compiler manual - Heath Company Service Publications and Training (05/1984) schematics: H-150 CPU Board (5 pages), H-150 Memory Board (3 pages), H-150 Floppy Controller (4 pages), Z-309/Z-309A Color Video Board (6 pages), H-150 Keyboard (1 page), H-150 Backplane (1 page) - Heath/ZDS Microsoft Word 1.10 manual - Heath/ZDS Z-100 PC Series Service Manual Volume 2 -- Chapters on System CPU card, Z-160 Base Unit, Video Deflection/Driver Boards, Winchester System, Z-309 Video Card, Video Board Schematics, Floppy Disk Controller Card - Heath/ZDS Z-DOS, Volume 2 manual -- MACRO-86, LINK, LIB, CREF, Appendices (Error Messages, MACRO-86 Errors, LINK Errors, LIB Errors, CREF Errors, Memory Test Utility, Single Disk Users Instructions, Directory Structures and FCB Definition, Interrupts Function Calls and Entry Points, System Structure and Memory Maps, MACRO-86 Directives, 8088 Instructions, Notes on Writing Z-DOS Programs, Procedure to Change Disk Parameters - Heath/ZDS Condor File Management System manual - ZDS Z-150 Technical Training manual (photocopy) -- TT-15, plus various articles/notes - Intersil MCB-512K Multibus I Memory Card w/ manual - Intel 215 Multibus I Winchester Disk Controller, w/ PSBX 218A and PSBX 217C daughtercards - National Semiconductor BLC-80/10 Multibus I CPU card, NS8080AD gold/ceramic, 3 2708 EPROMS w/ SBC-80P Prototyping Package. Includes manuals for SBC-80P (w/ listing!), and SBC-80/10 hardare manual (Intel version of this board -- includes schematics). - Intel 534 Communications Expansion board -- Multibus I, with manual - Intel SBC-80/05 Multibus I CPU Card -- missing EPROMS, and RS-232 driver/receiver pair (socketed, easy to replace) - Plessey PSM512 Multibus I memory card, w/ manual - Micro Industries BLC-508 I/O Expansion board -- Multibus I - Qty. 3 Multibus I Bus Extender Cards, various manufacturers - Qty. 2 Prototek Multibus I prototyping cards - Zendex ZX-907 Multibus I Bus Tracer card, w/ manual (includes monitor listing and schematics), Zendex product catalog (1982), marketing brochure, warranty registration card, welcome letter, set of "D" sized schematics, and a "C" sized block diagram. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From rhblakeman at kih.net Tue Jan 22 17:20:34 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: <3C4DE9BC.F7048345@rain.org> Message-ID: I've pulled a lot of what I used to post on ebay as well, trying a few on Bidbay to see how that is working out. It works pretty good still for the buyers though, especially online payment (except in cases where the seller immerses their sky-high "shipping" rate) -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Marvin Johnston Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 4:38 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day Russ Blakeman wrote: > > But the problem with Yahoo is that hardly anyone sells there (in comparison) > and that stooooopid auto-continue feature they run has made me and many > others pull totally out of Yahoo auctions. Everytime I check for just about > anything on ebay I find a deal, on Yahoo I've found one or two things and > then when I had sniped the auction it continued for 10 more minutes- that's > BS. My understanding is that that auto-extend "feature" is optional; I too just would not bid on auctions that used it. My understanding is that the sell rate on Ebay is around 40% and the sell rate on Yahoo is closer to 10%. Just depends on the type of buyers! > ebay starts charging for buy-it-now...a whopping nickel for each item. I > know, 2000 buy-it-now items equals mucho dinero for ebay. The price increase actually is pretty substantial, in some cases approaching 100% (dutch auctions for example.) And raising the fees with the economy in a recession and after record profits to my mind indicates a greedy company not worth supporting. And with all the new "features" in place to make it harder to use the site, I don't plan on listing or buying there anywhere near what I had planned. Take a look at: http://www.auctionguild.com/ for more information on Ebay problems as well as alternatives. From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 22 17:24:05 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: [A bit long] Stuff for sale... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Rich Beaudry wrote: > Yes, it's cleanout time again... Some of it is off-topic (not classic > enough), so bear with it :-) > - Black Box 232/CL-E RS232 to Current Loop adapter -- modem-sized box What are these for? I've got two or three of these units on a shelf behind some boxes. -Toth From west at tseinc.com Tue Jan 22 17:49:09 2002 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: [A bit long] Stuff for sale... References: Message-ID: <002b01c1a39f$63932600$0101a8c0@jay> These boxes convert RS232 signals to 20ma current loop. Handy for putting an old current look teletype on an RS232 serial port. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [A bit long] Stuff for sale... > On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Rich Beaudry wrote: > > > Yes, it's cleanout time again... Some of it is off-topic (not classic > > enough), so bear with it :-) > > > - Black Box 232/CL-E RS232 to Current Loop adapter -- modem-sized box > > What are these for? I've got two or three of these units on a shelf behind > some boxes. > > -Toth > > From curt at atari-history.com Tue Jan 22 15:13:46 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: Anybody seen Jeff Worley (UberTechnoid@Home.com)???? References: Message-ID: <003e01c1a389$ae5704b0$5b35ff0a@cvendel> Hi, Anybody seen Jeff Worley around lately? Email: UberTechnoid@Home.com I paid him for an SWP ATR8500 over a month ago and haven't heard from him or received the system, I've emailed him several times and haven't gotten a response.... So before wrongly accussing him or anything, perhaps he's having email problems or something, I figure since I've seen him post to the classiccmp mailing list, perhaps someone has seen or heard from him and may be able to pass a message for him to please contact me and give me a status, thanks much. Curt From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jan 22 15:20:19 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: [A bit long] Stuff for sale... References: Message-ID: <3C4DD792.163B6147@jetnet.ab.ca> Tothwolf wrote: > > On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Rich Beaudry wrote: > > > Yes, it's cleanout time again... Some of it is off-topic (not classic > > enough), so bear with it :-) > > > - Black Box 232/CL-E RS232 to Current Loop adapter -- modem-sized box > > What are these for? I've got two or three of these units on a shelf behind > some boxes. > > -Toth I would expect the box would enable you to run TTY's from a standard serial port. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jan 22 17:56:27 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:52 2005 Subject: [A bit long] Stuff for sale... In-Reply-To: Re: [A bit long] Stuff for sale... (Tothwolf) References: Message-ID: <15437.64555.764345.938898@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 22, Tothwolf wrote: > > - Black Box 232/CL-E RS232 to Current Loop adapter -- modem-sized box > > What are these for? I've got two or three of these units on a shelf behind > some boxes. Uhh, they convert RS232 to a current-loop interface? :) PDP8, early PDP11, and lots of other systems used 20mA (and other) current-loop interfaces before +-15V RS232 came into vogue. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 22 18:10:28 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: [A bit long] Stuff for sale... In-Reply-To: <002b01c1a39f$63932600$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Jay West wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Rich Beaudry wrote: > > > > > Yes, it's cleanout time again... Some of it is off-topic (not classic > > > enough), so bear with it :-) > > > > > - Black Box 232/CL-E RS232 to Current Loop adapter -- modem-sized box > > > > What are these for? I've got two or three of these units on a shelf behind > > some boxes. > > These boxes convert RS232 signals to 20ma current loop. Handy for > putting an old current look teletype on an RS232 serial port. That explains it. I also have some Black Box brand units that look similar but have an F type coax connector on them instead of a terminal block. Any idea what they might be intended for? -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 22 18:16:28 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: [A bit long] Stuff for sale... In-Reply-To: <15437.64555.764345.938898@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > On January 22, Tothwolf wrote: > > > - Black Box 232/CL-E RS232 to Current Loop adapter -- modem-sized box > > > > What are these for? I've got two or three of these units on a shelf behind > > some boxes. > > Uhh, they convert RS232 to a current-loop interface? :) > > PDP8, early PDP11, and lots of other systems used 20mA (and other) > current-loop interfaces before +-15V RS232 came into vogue. I'm afraid I just haven't been exposed to enough of the older gear yet :) -TOth From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jan 22 18:15:42 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: [A bit long] Stuff for sale... In-Reply-To: Re: [A bit long] Stuff for sale... (Tothwolf) References: <002b01c1a39f$63932600$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <15438.174.663833.962111@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 22, Tothwolf wrote: > That explains it. I also have some Black Box brand units that look similar > but have an F type coax connector on them instead of a terminal block. > Any idea what they might be intended for? A short-haul modem of some sort? -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jan 22 15:40:43 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day References: Message-ID: <3C4DDC5B.4515FF99@jetnet.ab.ca> Russ Blakeman wrote: > > I've pulled a lot of what I used to post on ebay as well, trying a few on > Bidbay to see how that is working out. It works pretty good still for the > buyers though, especially online payment (except in cases where the seller > immerses their sky-high "shipping" rate) I say I have this novel idea -- the seller marks a reasonable price and the buyer pays that price and gets the product. BTW Wanted -- A used low cost dumb terminal in Alberta Canada. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 22 18:41:50 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: [A bit long] Stuff for sale... In-Reply-To: <15438.174.663833.962111@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > On January 22, Tothwolf wrote: > > That explains it. I also have some Black Box brand units that look similar > > but have an F type coax connector on them instead of a terminal block. > > Any idea what they might be intended for? > > A short-haul modem of some sort? Your guess is as good as mine. I ended up with another similar looking unit still NIB, but the guy who gave it to me peeled the stickers off the bottom of the thing as a "joke"...I don't even know who made it or what it's for now. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 22 18:44:03 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: <3C4DDC5B.4515FF99@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > > I've pulled a lot of what I used to post on ebay as well, trying a few on > > Bidbay to see how that is working out. It works pretty good still for the > > buyers though, especially online payment (except in cases where the seller > > immerses their sky-high "shipping" rate) > > I say I have this novel idea -- the seller marks a reasonable > price and the buyer pays that price and gets the product. Sounds like a good idea to me. Wouldn't this put ebay out of business tho? ;) -Toth From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jan 22 18:48:17 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: [A bit long] Stuff for sale... In-Reply-To: Re: [A bit long] Stuff for sale... (Tothwolf) References: <15438.174.663833.962111@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15438.2129.523707.266059@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 22, Tothwolf wrote: > > > That explains it. I also have some Black Box brand units that look similar > > > but have an F type coax connector on them instead of a terminal block. > > > Any idea what they might be intended for? > > > > A short-haul modem of some sort? > > Your guess is as good as mine. I ended up with another similar looking > unit still NIB, but the guy who gave it to me peeled the stickers off the > bottom of the thing as a "joke"...I don't even know who made it or what > it's for now. A "joke"?? Wow, that guy has a great sense of humor. I can hardly stop laughing. Heh. Heh. I can hardly contain myself. Heh. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 22 17:45:06 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: Security bits In-Reply-To: <10201221942.ZM12752@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jan 22, 2 07:42:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020122/deab3d69/attachment.ksh From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Jan 22 22:00:27 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: Security bits In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020122195950.04038230@mail.zipcon.net> bummer, none of them are the right bit for N64 :( it looks kinda like an inverst Torx, I was told it's a "television" bit?!?! At 10:16 PM 1/22/02 -0500, you wrote: >If anyone wants to see what the Radio Shack set of security bits looks >like, I put a scan of them at > >http://orchard.washtenaw.cc.mi.us/~paul/SECBITS.JPG > >Paul R. Santa-Maria >Monroe, Michigan USA From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 22 12:29:55 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: Here I Am Message-ID: Not that anyone cares, but if you've been trying to contact me for the past 10 days and I have not responded, it is because: a) I was on vacation b) When I got back I discovered some little punk assed bitch had hacked into my server and it had to be taken off the local network where it sits for security reasons. I'm only now getting this stupid server reconfigured properly again. All I can say is for all my Linux evangelizing, it still as a LONG way to go towards ease of setup. I thought SuSE was going to make things much easier but I must say I had about as much trouble with SuSE as I did with my old Red Hat setup. Fooey on crappy Linux installs. Fooey on lame-o's who waste my time by stumbling their way into my server and causing me to lose precious time. Anyway, I hope this actually makes it out of here. And I hope whoever is trying to contact me will be able to get through successfully. It will still take me a day to work out bugs and get back to anyone who's e-mailed me, so I appreciate your patience. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jan 22 22:01:07 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: Here I Am In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Jan 22, 2002 06:29:55 PM Message-ID: <200201230401.g0N417t15036@shell1.aracnet.com> > b) When I got back I discovered some little punk assed bitch had hacked > into my server and it had to be taken off the local network where it sits > for security reasons. This sucks!!! Something you might want to consider is using OpenBSD for your server. I've been using Linux for over 10 years now, and while I think it's a pretty good desktop OS, and OK as a server, if I want a stable secure server I'll use OpenBSD! Of course OpenBSD sucks in that it doesn't support multiprocessor systems! Oh, and yes, I realize you're probably not in the mood for someone suggesting you switch to a different OS. Zane From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Jan 22 22:27:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: OT: Common sense security (was Re: Here I Am) In-Reply-To: <200201230401.g0N417t15036@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: Also, a backup procedure is a very good idea. As long as you're careful with what you do with Linux (eg. don't run services you dont need, keep up with security updates, etc.), you should have just as secure of a system as OpenBSD. Don't run thinks like BIND, or other buggy large software packages, run more secure equivalents... like MaraDNS instead of BIND, qmail instead of sendmail, thttpd instead of Apache (well, Apache is unlikely to be much of a problem if properly configured)... I just got a DDS-3 (12G uncompressed) drive from PCSurplusOnline for $175 (pull from server), and it works beautifully. 12-24G of data on a $8-$10 tape is a VERY affordable solution if you ask me, there's very little reason not to do backups. At least you could do CD-R(W) backups as little as $0.30 per 700M disk. Just my $0.02 ($0.03 CDN) -- Pat On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > b) When I got back I discovered some little punk assed bitch had hacked > > into my server and it had to be taken off the local network where it sits > > for security reasons. > > This sucks!!! Something you might want to consider is using OpenBSD for > your server. I've been using Linux for over 10 years now, and while I think > it's a pretty good desktop OS, and OK as a server, if I want a stable secure > server I'll use OpenBSD! Of course OpenBSD sucks in that it doesn't support > multiprocessor systems! > > Oh, and yes, I realize you're probably not in the mood for someone > suggesting you switch to a different OS. > > Zane > From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jan 23 00:01:01 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: OT: Common sense security (was Re: Here I Am) In-Reply-To: from "Pat Finnegan" at Jan 22, 2002 11:27:00 PM Message-ID: <200201230601.g0N611G10177@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Also, a backup procedure is a very good idea. As long as you're careful > with what you do with Linux (eg. don't run services you dont need, keep up > with security updates, etc.), you should have just as secure of a system > as OpenBSD. Don't run thinks like BIND, or other buggy large software > packages, run more secure equivalents... like MaraDNS instead of BIND, > qmail instead of sendmail, thttpd instead of Apache (well, Apache is > unlikely to be much of a problem if properly configured)... Actually, with *ANY* operating system you need to keep up with security updates. > I just got a DDS-3 (12G uncompressed) drive from PCSurplusOnline for > $175 (pull from server), and it works beautifully. 12-24G of data > on a $8-$10 tape is a VERY affordable solution if you ask me, there's very > little reason not to do backups. At least you could do CD-R(W) backups > as little as $0.30 per 700M disk. I bought a DLT4000 and a TZ867, removed the TZ86 (converted to DSSI and installed in my VAX 4000/500 to read TK50/TK70 tapes), and installed the DLT4000, which turned the TZ867 into a DLT4700. I have 140GB/280GB of storage available, and use that to back up all my systems. The initial cost was a little high ($400 for the DLT4000 and $250 for the TZ867), but the long-term costs are low, and DLT is very reliable. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jan 22 23:56:32 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: Here I Am In-Reply-To: <200201230401.g0N417t15036@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > b) When I got back I discovered some little punk assed bitch had hacked > > into my server and it had to be taken off the local network where it sits > > for security reasons. > > This sucks!!! Something you might want to consider is using OpenBSD for > your server. I've been using Linux for over 10 years now, and while I think > it's a pretty good desktop OS, and OK as a server, if I want a stable secure > server I'll use OpenBSD! Of course OpenBSD sucks in that it doesn't support > multiprocessor systems! That's why you go with NetBSD. Peace... Sridhar From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jan 23 00:14:41 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: Here I Am In-Reply-To: from "Julius Sridhar" at Jan 23, 2002 12:56:32 AM Message-ID: <200201230614.g0N6EfB10238@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > b) When I got back I discovered some little punk assed bitch had hacked > > > into my server and it had to be taken off the local network where it sits > > > for security reasons. > > > > This sucks!!! Something you might want to consider is using OpenBSD for > > your server. I've been using Linux for over 10 years now, and while I think > > it's a pretty good desktop OS, and OK as a server, if I want a stable secure > > server I'll use OpenBSD! Of course OpenBSD sucks in that it doesn't support > > multiprocessor systems! > > That's why you go with NetBSD. I seem to remember the difference between NetBSD and FreeBSD was NetBSD's goal was to run on anything, while FreeBSD's goal was to run on x86 systems. Has that changed? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jan 23 00:49:15 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: Here I Am In-Reply-To: Re: Here I Am (Eric Dittman) References: <200201230614.g0N6EfB10238@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <15438.23787.684572.108893@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 23, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > This sucks!!! Something you might want to consider is using OpenBSD for > > > your server. I've been using Linux for over 10 years now, and while I think > > > it's a pretty good desktop OS, and OK as a server, if I want a stable secure > > > server I'll use OpenBSD! Of course OpenBSD sucks in that it doesn't support > > > multiprocessor systems! > > > > That's why you go with NetBSD. > > I seem to remember the difference between NetBSD and FreeBSD > was NetBSD's goal was to run on anything, while FreeBSD's goal > was to run on x86 systems. Has that changed? Sorta. The FreeBSD evangelists started trying to port to other architectures some time ago. Sun funded their UltraSPARC port if memory serves, because some suit at Sun had heard of FreeBSD but not NetBSD...and NetBSD would have been a MUCH better choice because it was already 64-bit clean, already had lots of relevant device support, the team had relevant architectural experience, etc etc etc...Later, the FreeBSD folks ported their stuff to Alpha. The last time I played with it, about 1.5yrs ago, it was slow and very unstable. I've always drawn the lines like this: NetBSD does things portably, and runs on buttloads of different processor architectures. FreeBSD specializes in PeeCee hardware, and all their effort is [was] focused there, so it's more featureful and has more device support on x86. So the lines are blurring, and for primarily political reasons. We don't even want to TALK about OpenBSD. The whole reason for the very existance of that OS was a petty argument between a bunch of egotists in the NetBSD core group, and OpenBSD was started out of childish spite. Reminds me of clark.net. Pardon me whilst I throw up. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jan 23 00:55:36 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: Here I Am In-Reply-To: <200201230614.g0N6EfB10238@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > I seem to remember the difference between NetBSD and FreeBSD > was NetBSD's goal was to run on anything, while FreeBSD's goal > was to run on x86 systems. Has that changed? Not really. FreeBSD has a pretty good Alpha port now, and OpenBSD is branching out all over the place. I'm probably inviting flameage, but my perception is that lately OpeBSD is growing much more horizontally than vertically. Doc From hans at Huebner.ORG Wed Jan 23 01:02:35 2002 From: hans at Huebner.ORG (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hans_H=FCbner?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: OT: *BSD (was Re: Here I Am) In-Reply-To: <200201230614.g0N6EfB10238@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20020123075225.C54063-100000@mail.huebner.org> On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > I seem to remember the difference between NetBSD and FreeBSD was NetBSD's > goal was to run on anything, while FreeBSD's goal was to run on x86 systems. > Has that changed? It changed slightly. FreeBSD runs on i386 and Alpha today, and the port to UltraSPARC is already booting to single user mode. FreeBSD heads for supporting mainstream hardware, whereas NetBSD runs on everything (everything). If you don't care for the CPU architecture, a FreeBSD/i386 system is a very comfortable environment providing for easy installation and upgrades as well as a pretty complete feature set including volume management, reliable and growable file system and Linux emulation. I've tried Linux a few times, different distributions. None of them could convince me that Linux is somehow 'superiour' for my applications, let alone ease of installation and maintenance. But then, I'm more of an old-school Unix buff, so much of my preference could be related to the fact that BSDs in general do things like we did them 15 years ago :) -Hans P.S.: Yes, I declare myself guilty. Those of you with limited time will want to kill this thread right now :) -- finger hans@huebner.org for details From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jan 23 01:34:41 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: Here I Am In-Reply-To: <200201230614.g0N6EfB10238@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > I seem to remember the difference between NetBSD and FreeBSD was > NetBSD's goal was to run on anything, while FreeBSD's goal was to run > on x86 systems. Has that changed? Not really. It runs on Alpha now, but it's still quite x86-centric. NetBSD works much better. Peace... Sridhar From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jan 23 00:33:54 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: Here I Am In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > b) When I got back I discovered some little punk assed bitch had hacked > > > into my server and it had to be taken off the local network where it sits > > > for security reasons. > > > > This sucks!!! Something you might want to consider is using OpenBSD for > > your server. I've been using Linux for over 10 years now, and while I think > > it's a pretty good desktop OS, and OK as a server, if I want a stable secure > > server I'll use OpenBSD! Of course OpenBSD sucks in that it doesn't support > > multiprocessor systems! > > That's why you go with NetBSD. No, that's why you Just Say No to RedHat. As a RedHat Certified Engineer, Instructor and Examiner (Woo-Freakin-Hoo), I can say this with authority: RedHat has the strangest concept of security I've ever run across. They close doors that should be open - sendmail refuses connections on port 25 by default - and leave others wide open. Like running [unconfigured] apache on every install. Debian Rulez Doc From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Jan 23 02:29:07 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: Here I Am In-Reply-To: ; from doc@mdrconsult.com on Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 07:33:54 CET References: Message-ID: <20020123092907.M56871@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.01.23 07:33 Doc wrote: > RedHat has the strangest concept of security I've ever run across. > They close doors that should be open - sendmail refuses connections on > port 25 by default - and leave others wide open. Like running > [unconfigured] apache on every install. That is the point. If you do a carefull setup, install fixes, ... you can make Linux as secure as any *BSD. One of the reasons why I prefere to use a non-Linux OS on a non-PeeCee machine as firewall, is that the script kiddys don't know how to hack, but only know how to use the newest exploit... And of course there is a butload of other reasons to use *BSD instead of Linux... > Debian Rulez ...if you want to be a LUser (Linux User) ;-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 22 17:53:14 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: 5.25in. Floppies In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Jan 22, 2 03:16:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 267 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020122/1806f3df/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jan 22 21:53:14 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: 5.25in. Floppies In-Reply-To: Re: 5.25in. Floppies (Tony Duell) References: Message-ID: <15438.13226.913988.937318@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 22, Tony Duell wrote: > > Is it just me, or is there something not-so-subtly ironic and > > gratifying about a 450mHz desktop with a working 5.25 floppy drive > > I think it's amazing that a 0.45Hz system doesn't have data overrun > problems when reading from a floppy controller :-) He shoots, he scores! -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 22 22:27:16 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: 5.25in. Floppies In-Reply-To: <15438.13226.913988.937318@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > On January 22, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Is it just me, or is there something not-so-subtly ironic and > > > gratifying about a 450mHz desktop with a working 5.25 floppy drive > > > > I think it's amazing that a 0.45Hz system doesn't have data overrun > > problems when reading from a floppy controller :-) > > He shoots, he scores! Umm, so, how long do I get to take flak for a typo? Doc, who's thoroughly sick of swapping floppies. From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Jan 22 23:06:05 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: 5.25in. Floppies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > On January 22, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Is it just me, or is there something not-so-subtly ironic and > > > > gratifying about a 450mHz desktop with a working 5.25 floppy drive > > > > > > I think it's amazing that a 0.45Hz system doesn't have data overrun > > > problems when reading from a floppy controller :-) > > > > He shoots, he scores! > > Umm, so, how long do I get to take flak for a typo? > > Doc, who's thoroughly sick of swapping floppies. Mwuahahahahaha Mwuahahahaha Mwuahahahaheh*ackh*ackk* Sorry about that. We will now return to the regularly scheduled program. -- Pat From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jan 22 23:17:58 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: 5.25in. Floppies In-Reply-To: Re: 5.25in. Floppies (Doc) References: <15438.13226.913988.937318@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15438.18310.5137.257733@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 22, Doc wrote: > > > > Is it just me, or is there something not-so-subtly ironic and > > > > gratifying about a 450mHz desktop with a working 5.25 floppy drive > > > > > > I think it's amazing that a 0.45Hz system doesn't have data overrun > > > problems when reading from a floppy controller :-) > > > > He shoots, he scores! > > Umm, so, how long do I get to take flak for a typo? Until we get bored with it. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 22 23:57:25 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: 5.25in. Floppies In-Reply-To: <15438.18310.5137.257733@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > On January 22, Doc wrote: > > > > > Is it just me, or is there something not-so-subtly ironic and > > > > > gratifying about a 450mHz desktop with a working 5.25 floppy drive > > > > > > > > I think it's amazing that a 0.45Hz system doesn't have data overrun > > > > problems when reading from a floppy controller :-) > > > > > > He shoots, he scores! > > > > Umm, so, how long do I get to take flak for a typo? > > Until we get bored with it. ;) > Honest, and entirely appropriate. Dammit. ;) Doc From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Jan 22 18:56:54 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: 5.25in. Floppies Message-ID: <139.828069b.297f6456@aol.com> In a message dated 1/22/02 5:11:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, mythtech@Mac.com writes: << > Is it just me, or is there something not-so-subtly ironic and >gratifying about a 450mHz desktop with a working 5.25 floppy drive >installed? my 750mhz Athlon has a 3.5/5.25 combo drive in it (both drives in a single half height 5.25 case). I don't think I have used the 5.25 half... but I put it in "just in case". -chris >> I just put a Teac 5.25 in my AMD 1200. Win2k picked right up on it. I install 5.25 floppies on all my modern machines since older ones use the same size. I recently lucked out and found some electronic eject 5.25 drives that fit perfectly in my PS/2 95 servers. Pretty cool to have a computer that can natively support 3 floppy drives. old computers, old cars and sundry items www.nothingtodo.org From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Jan 22 17:53:48 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: hopefully this will stop. was: PPro In-Reply-To: <20020123042519.8469.qmail@mail.seefried.com> References: <200201220641.g0M6fKs90276@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <20020123045329.THUD19101.tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Ken, and my admission: Thanks for setting me straight, I was sorta aware of things and I was blindly striking out about that PPro thing because I had bad memories about that due to iffy chipset issues and poor 16bit performance. Let me clarify bit better this time, early chipsets by intel didn't have functioning busmastering IDE. Seamless operation seems to be PCI SCSI card (wide or better) or a decent IDE card that supports UDMA features but not those buggy CMD or it's like types. When used properly, PPro is nice. Let's rest that case for now. Cheers, Wizard From ken at seefried.com Tue Jan 22 22:25:18 2002 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: PPro In-Reply-To: <200201220641.g0M6fKs90276@ns2.ezwind.net> References: <200201220641.g0M6fKs90276@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <20020123042519.8469.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Once again, Wizard wrote: >Soothe... Sure, Bevis... >I was trying to see your thoughts on PPros, >keep in mind that PII and PIII are based on P6 which is PPro's >original design. Not the original design, the implimented design. Do pay attention: the PII was in most respects a reduced cost implimentation of the PPro with updated fab technology. > Also PPro boards relied on 72pin simms which is not > that great of a bandwith and capacity, Wrong...both of my PPro machines (Intel PR440 motherboards) use ECC EDO DIMMs. The IBM, Digital, HP and many other PPros used DIMMs as well. Also...once you understand computer architecture fundamentals a bit better, you'll figure out that modern processors are generally not tied to a particular memory subsytem. You can do all sorts of things to trade off between cost and speed. For example, my DEC Alpha PC64 uses 4 standard 72-pin ECC SIMMs for a 128-bit wide (+ECC) memory bus, which is in practice quite fast. And as far as capacity, 128MB 72-pin SIMMs are pretty common. Not bad capacity considering their obsolescence. > SDRAM has best density and > good bandwith, also still good cost even cost has recently risen. You actually want to compare performance and density of memory technologies that are years appart. Clearly, the DC-3 was the crappiest airplane of all time, because the 767 is so much better. > That the reason for later machines w/ PII/PIII, Xeon and it's > relatives P4 northwoods /w DDR (not the 1st generation P4), athlons. > still stands Ummm...random buzzword generator? Not even remotely intellegable. Or is it that you think it's remotely relevant to compare the PPro to chips which are 2 or 3 generations newer? D00d! The 386 b10wz compared to my P4. Duh. > Most of my scorn lies w/ > PPro's chipsets more than CPU themselves. Same w/ celeron. It is > okay but... First...what's wrong with the 440FX? Or the 450GX? Or the 450KX? Or the 440LX (also, BTW, used for your vaunted PII)? Or the Micron, Via & SiS PPro chipsets for the PPro? And the last time I checked, most motherboards supported PII, PIII & Celeron. So what exactly is wrong with the BX, etc. that is specific to the Celeron such that it earns your "scorn" ? Details, that is...not nonsense like we've gotten till now. ObBigGiantClue: you can't ding a chipset for not supporting technology that didn't even exist when the chipset came out (like AGP or SDRAM). Second...make up your mind. Is it the processor you criticize (with no detail, of course, in all previous postings) or the chipset. You do realize they are different animals, right? From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 22 19:07:04 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: [A bit long] Stuff for sale... In-Reply-To: <15438.2129.523707.266059@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > On January 22, Tothwolf wrote: > > > Your guess is as good as mine. I ended up with another similar looking > > unit still NIB, but the guy who gave it to me peeled the stickers off the > > bottom of the thing as a "joke"...I don't even know who made it or what > > it's for now. > > A "joke"?? Wow, that guy has a great sense of humor. I can hardly > stop laughing. > > Heh. Heh. > > I can hardly contain myself. > > Heh. My thoughts exactly. Worst part is, I didn't even notice the labels were gone when I first got the thing...I didn't notice till years later. It must have originally had a book with it too. -Toth From ken at seefried.com Tue Jan 22 21:34:41 2002 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: PPro (was: RE: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 serve) Message-ID: <20020123033441.8387.qmail@mail.seefried.com> From: "wizard" > PS: Still not conviced that PPro is "worthy" CPUs. I view it as > "bastard child" of PII, celeron is even worse. Excuse me? Considering the PPro is significantly older than the PII, it would be hard for it to be the child. Further...the PPro has faster cache (clock == core, as opposed to clock == 1/2 core on PII) and on some versions more cache than the PII (up to 1MB). Clock for clock, the PPro is a better chip than the PII, it simply never got clocked up as high as the PII (for a number of mostly economic reasons). From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 22 17:56:58 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: Info needed on 1702A programmer In-Reply-To: <000701c1a393$62439200$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jan 22, 2 03:23:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 524 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020122/835697bc/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jan 22 21:54:21 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: Info needed on 1702A programmer In-Reply-To: Re: Info needed on 1702A programmer (Tony Duell) References: <000701c1a393$62439200$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <15438.13293.183901.615127@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 22, Tony Duell wrote: > > You wouldn't have any data on what, exactly, the voltages and timing for the > > 1702A would be, would you? > > If he doesn't, then I have the Intel 1702A data sheets and schematics for > their programmer, as used in the MCS8I (I think that's for the 1702A, not > the 1702, but I would have to check). I also have schematics, etc for at > least one DIY 1702A programmer (the PE CHAMP-PROG, FWIW). > > Be warned these are not friendly chips to program. Several of the pins > have to be raised to 40V-ish voltage levels.... A -47V programming pulse comes to mind, in particular... -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jan 22 19:59:37 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: Info needed on 1702A programmer In-Reply-To: "Richard Erlacher" "Re: Info needed on 1702A programmer" (Jan 22, 15:23) References: <000701c1a393$62439200$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <10201230159.ZM13065@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 22, 15:23, Richard Erlacher wrote: > You wouldn't have any data on what, exactly, the voltages and timing for the > 1702A would be, would you? This is from the Intel Data Catalog 1976: t(ACH) :<----- t(ACW) ------>: :<-->: 0V ___ :_____________________:__:_ :_______________________ _ ADDRESS \ / binary complement : : \ /: address of word \ / X of address t.b.p. : : X : to be programmed X -40 to 48V ___/ \_____________________:__:_/ \:_______________________/ \_ : : : : : : : : : : : t(VD)-->: :<--: 0V ___________________________: : : : :___:______ pulsed V(DD) \ : : : / : power supply :\ : : : /: : -46 to -48V : \:____:______________:__/ : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : -->: :<--- : : : 0V ___________________________: : : : t(ATW) : :___:______ pulsed V(GG) \ : : : / : power supply :\ : : : /: : -35 to -40V \:________:__________:__/ : : : : : t(VW)--->: :<-- : : : : -->: t(ATH) :<--- 0V _____________________________________ : : ______:_______ pulsed V(GG) \ :<-t(PW)-->: / power supply \: :/ -35 to -40V \__________/ : : : t(DW)---->: :<-- -->: :<---t(DH) : : : : 0V _______________________________ :___________________: ________ DATA data can \ /: :\ / data can change X : data stable : X change -46 to 48V _______________________________/ \:___________________:/ \__________ : : min typ max t(PW) Program Pulse Width 2ms 3ms V(GG)=-35V V(DD)=V(PROG)=-48V t(DW) Data Set-Up Time 25mms t(DH) Data Hold Time 10mms t(VW) V(DD), V(GG) Set-Up Time 100mms t(VD) V(DD), V(GG) Hold Time 10mms 100mms t(ACW) Addr.Compl. Set-Up Time 25mms t(ACH) Addr.Compl. Hold Time 25mms t(ATW) Addr.True Set-Up Time 10mms t(ATH) Addr.True Hold Time 10mms "mms" = microseconds. Input rise/fall times =< 1mms Ambient temp 25C Vcc = 0V Vbb = +12V +/- 10% /CS = 0V PROGRAMMING INFORMATION: 1702A and 1702AL family. Initially all 2048 bits of the PROM are in the '0' state (outpiut low). Information is introduced by selectively programming '1's (output high) in the proper bit locations. All 8 address bits must be in the binary complement state when pulsed Vdd and Vgg move to their negative levels. The addresses must be held in their binary complement state for a minimum of 25 microsec after Vdd and Vgg have moved to their negative levels. The addresses must then make the transition to their true state a minimum of 10 microsec before the program pulse is applied. The addresses shouyld be programmed in the sequence 0 through 255 for a minimum of 32 times. The eight output terminals are used as data inputs to determine the information pattern in the eight bits of each word. A low data level (-48V) will program a '1' and a high data input (0V) will program a '0'. All eight bits of one word are programmed simultaneously by setting the desired bit information patterns on the data input terminals. During the programming, Vgg, Vdd, and the Program Puilse are pulsed signals. See page 2 of the data sheet for required pin connections during programming. Pin Name Read Program 12 Vcc Vcc GND 13 Program Vcc Prog.Pulse 14 /CS GND GND 15 Vbb Vcc Vbb 16 Vgg Vgg Pulsed Vgg 22 Vcc Vcc GND 23 Vcc Vcc GND 24 Vdd Vdd Pulsed Vdd -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Jan 22 19:31:44 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > > > > I've pulled a lot of what I used to post on ebay as well, trying a few on > > > Bidbay to see how that is working out. It works pretty good still for the > > > buyers though, especially online payment (except in cases where the seller > > > immerses their sky-high "shipping" rate) > > > > I say I have this novel idea -- the seller marks a reasonable > > price and the buyer pays that price and gets the product. > > Sounds like a good idea to me. > > Wouldn't this put ebay out of business tho? ;) > Yeah, but most people that put stuff on ebay don't have a clue what things are REALLY worth. (This also applies to some people that are buying things. And no, $40k for a CISC as400 doesn't seem reasonable to me.) People would have to learn what stuff is worth first, and that takes time- time that people are not willing to spend. My $0.02 ($0.03 CDN) -- Pat From at258 at osfn.org Tue Jan 22 19:39:37 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: Xerox 4050 & IBM PS/2 Model 80 Available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Is it an 860 system? 8inch drives, very odd monitor cable interface. On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Bill Richman wrote: > The Xerox 4050 is a printer controller, but appears to be some sort of > mini-computer with a Xerox logo on it; it has a floppy drive and > possibly internal hard drive. If anyone knows anything else about > these, info posted to this list would be appreciated. The thing is > waiting for pickup by a scrapper, whose truck is currently being > repaired. If you get here first, you can have it. It's about the > size and weight of a chest freezer. > > Also available is an IBM PS/2 Model 80-386 micro-channel tower > machine. Includes a micro-channel token-ring network card. > > Both of these items were pulled from use in the last couple of months > and should be in good working order. They are available > _for_local_pickup_only_ in Lincoln, Nebraska. Drop me a note quick if > you want either of them before they go to the big bit-bucket in the > sky! > > > > > Bill Richman > bill_r@inetnebr.com > http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r > > Home of Fun with Molten Metal, technological > oddities, and the original COSMAC Elf > computer simulator! > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From dancohoe at oxford.net Wed Jan 23 00:38:30 2002 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: Xerox 4050 & IBM PS/2 Model 80 Available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c1a3da$bd069dd0$8d1cefd1@DCOHOE> Merle K. Peirce wrote: > Is it an 860 system? 8inch drives, very odd monitor cable interface. > snip > > I have quite a few boxes of manuals for the Xerox 4050 laser printing system which this controller likely belonged to. If anyone is interested, I can dig them out and send them off. Probably tapes and diskettes too. I've forgotten exactly what I have, but it likely covers the controller as well as the rest. Dan Cohoe From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 23 05:00:47 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: Security bits In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020122195950.04038230@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > At 10:16 PM 1/22/02 -0500, you wrote: > >If anyone wants to see what the Radio Shack set of security bits looks > >like, I put a scan of them at > > > >http://orchard.washtenaw.cc.mi.us/~paul/SECBITS.JPG > > bummer, none of them are the right bit for N64 :( it looks kinda like > an inverst Torx, I was told it's a "television" bit?!?! Search for 'MCM electronics' or 'Jensen Tools' on google. Both of them carry bits that will fit, but I'm not sure if the bits will reach the screws in the N64. Ether the N64 or GameCube had recessed screws which were hard to remove even with these bits. -Toth From nerdware at ctgonline.org Tue Jan 22 19:49:57 2002 From: nerdware at ctgonline.org (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: Sea Container Spelunking (Terminal Junkie Part Two) In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225D37@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3C4DC265.949.2DD88C0F@localhost> > > containers. I half expected to find some ex-colleagues preserved in > > aspic. "Oh, John? No, he never _really_ left. No one ever does". > > Aspic isn't a preservative, it's a sauce... > > Haven't you ever had Lark's Tongues in Aspic? > > ;) > > -dq Only while wearing a red robe...... Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jan 22 20:36:31 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: Sea Container Spelunking (Terminal Junkie Part Two) In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225D37@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> from Douglas Quebbeman at "Jan 22, 2 11:57:19 am" Message-ID: <200201230236.SAA08602@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > containers. I half expected to find some ex-colleagues preserved in > > aspic. "Oh, John? No, he never _really_ left. No one ever does". > > Aspic isn't a preservative, it's a sauce... > > Haven't you ever had Lark's Tongues in Aspic? > ;) Yes, well I remember from high school English the great play "Aspic and Old Lace." (Wait a minute, something wrong there ... ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- ** COMMODORE 64 BASIC V2 ** 64K RAM SYSTEM 38911 BASIC BYTES FREE ---------- From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Jan 22 22:57:34 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: Sea Container Spelunking (Terminal Junkie Part Two) References: <200201230236.SAA08602@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3C4E42BE.6000001@cnonline.net> > Yes, well I remember from high school English the great play "Aspic and > Old Lace." (Wait a minute, something wrong there ... ;-) Arsenic and Old Lace? From djg at drs-esg.com Tue Jan 22 20:33:11 2002 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: Toshiba T250 & moving files Message-ID: <200201230233.VAA16128@drs-esg.com> I got this and can't really help. From what I understand if you assist him so he can get the files off then he is willing to give the machine. Sorry, didn't think until now to ask where he lives. Reply to address in message below. -------- Original Message ----------- From: "Dave Bradshaw" I own a Toshiba T250 CPM PC that is around 17 years old. It is in excellent condition, and fully operational. It has 2 8 inch floppy diskette drives. The disk drives are high capacity, and the floppies contain 1MB of data. I have a lot of text data that I would like to move to a Windows based system. I'm looking either for an 8 inch drive that I can connect to a Windows PC, or another solution. I have never been able to locate a communications application that will wild card the file transfers, making the job way to ponderous to do one file at a time. There are literally thousands of small files. Do you know of an 8 inch drive that is compatible with a Windows PC and my high capacity 8 inch floppies. Also, if you are interested in my machine I am more than willing to part with it after I move all the data. -------- Original Message ----------- I pointed him to http://www.cpmspectre.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/cpm/cpm_faq.htm#q14 http://www.cpmspectre.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ and classiccmp. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. From vaxman at earthlink.net Tue Jan 22 21:50:41 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: Osborne 1 on EBay Message-ID: Anybody else see it? I'm tempted, but my house is alread full of VAXen... clint From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Jan 23 01:34:36 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: Osborne 1 on EBay References: Message-ID: <3C4E678C.BB8706E9@ccp.com> "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > > Anybody else see it? I'm tempted, but my house is alread full of VAXen... > > clint Got one already, with the original SSSD 80 k drives. Gary Hildebrand From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Jan 22 21:52:48 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: UK Teleprinter Seminar (fwd) Message-ID: Forwarded for the possible interest of UK and European Classiccmpers: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 07:51:26 +0800 From: Larry Rice Reply-To: greenkeys@mailman.qth.net To: greenkeys@mailman.qth.net Subject: [GreenKeys] Teleprinter seminar Got this from uk.radio.amateur - wish it was a bit closer... A Mechanical Teleprinter Seminar is being held at 1030 on Sunday 17th February 2002 at HMS Collingwood Communication and Radar Museum, Lee on Solent Road south of Fareham Hampshire after leaving the M27 at junction 11. Tour the Museum after. If you are interested places are to be booked in advance through Andrew Sinclair G0AMS Tel No 01329 235397. Or E:Mail to parr@athene.co.uk All requests for places must be made by Friday 15th Feb http://www.recelectronics.demon.co.uk/collingrad.htm Rgds Larry oseagram@iprimus.com.au _______________________________________________ GreenKeys mailing list GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Jan 22 21:55:41 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: DC-100 cartridge tapes wanted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020122195520.0403c830@mail.zipcon.net> isn't the physical tape narrower in dc 100 tapes? At 02:54 PM 1/22/02 -0800, you wrote: >On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > > > On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Mike McCauley wrote: > > > > > > > Im looking for DC-100 cartridge tapes to use with my Tek 4041 GPIB > > > > controller. I think HP also used to use them a lot? Dont care about > the tape > > > > length, just the mechanical size. > > > > > > Have you tried something like the DC-2000 which are rather higher > > > capacity but the same cartridge, I believe. > > > > The DC100 has a smaller form factor IIRC. > > > > -Toth > >You may be correct. I have a few DC-100s around, but presently >inaccessible, so I cannot compare. > - don From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Wed Jan 23 03:27:30 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: VAXstation newbie Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021A74@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com] > Sent: 22 January 2002 17:18 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: VAXstation newbie > > I have VMS 5.0 on RX50 diskettes. We had a MicroVAX-I that we bought > new at work ($10,000) and another that we bought shortly > thereafter and > upgraded to a MicroVAX-II ($17,000 for hardware and VMS > license upgrade). > We continued to receive MicroVMS and VMS distributions on floppy until > some point after 5.0, when DEC switched us to TK50 (good > thing, too... the > RX50 distro is a wad of disks). Gods; I thought installing/upgrading from TK50 was bad enough, but floppies? Eek. I remember the first time I watched an install from CD though - wow! :) That must've been around 5.4 or 5.5..... a From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jan 23 04:36:51 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: Looking for some VAX stuff... Message-ID: Ok. I am looking for two VAX parts. The first is a second set of CPU boards for my VAX 8700 (to make it an 8800). The second is a DWBUA boardset with UNIBUS cardcage. This thing is a UNIBUS bridge card for a BI system, and a UNIBUS cardcage. Thanks. Peace... Sridhar From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 23 05:29:27 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:53 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > > > I say I have this novel idea -- the seller marks a reasonable > > > price and the buyer pays that price and gets the product. > > > > Sounds like a good idea to me. > > > > Wouldn't this put ebay out of business tho? ;) > > Yeah, but most people that put stuff on ebay don't have a clue what > things are REALLY worth. (This also applies to some people that are > buying things. And no, $40k for a CISC as400 doesn't seem reasonable > to me.) (I'm sure someone will flame me for this, but oh well :) I used to buy *tons* of stuff at local auctions. Lately, there have been a few idiots who show up at the local auctions and proceed to bid up items higher than they are worth, and then try to resell their "wins" on ebay. Often the items are either big and heavy or nonworking. One common item I used to buy DOA and repair for my own uses were UPS systems. These were often fried (magic smoke long gone), usually repairable, and would sell for $2-5ea. At the last local auction, a wannabe dealer paid $175 or so for a dozen dead UPS. The last auction prior to that, a different wannabe dealer paid $150 for 8-10 of them. Notice it wasn't the same people both times, the first guy had already learned his lesson the hard way. I saw those exact 8-10 dead UPS up on ebay about a week after that auction starting at $50 each. He never was ever able to sell those DOA UPS that weigh 30-40lb each for that price. I'm starting to think they need to institute some kind of intelligence entrance exam for the local auctions :) > People would have to learn what stuff is worth first, and that takes > time- time that people are not willing to spend. Exactly. Theres no way I'd be willing to pay $50 plus shipping for something on ebay that I can pay $5 or even $20 for locally. -Toth From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 22 17:16:06 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Jan 22, 2 09:45:57 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1376 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020122/caa97edd/attachment.ksh From paul at wccnet.org Tue Jan 22 21:16:52 2002 From: paul at wccnet.org (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Security bits In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If anyone wants to see what the Radio Shack set of security bits looks like, I put a scan of them at http://orchard.washtenaw.cc.mi.us/~paul/SECBITS.JPG Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 23 05:50:19 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > I probably wouldn't want to practice by winding a mains winding that's > > > going to be run unattended. But anyway... > > > > I've wound a number of them in the past, including some rather unusual HV > > stuff for custom equipment. I'd certainly double check my work with a > > meter, but I'd be ok with it. > > You want to do a high voltage insulation test (aka 'megger' test) at > least. And run it at full voltage to make sure nothing flashes over. True, but unfortunately I don't currently own or have access to such a meter. I would certainly find one to test a transformer core I wound if I planned to use it unattended. -Toth From rhblakeman at kih.net Wed Jan 23 06:19:57 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: We've had a local a uction problem lately here too, seems that a few of t he local auctioneers have hired professional shills to come in as regular bidders and they bid crazily to get the people in the bunch wound up and into bidding to get the thing going, then they sort of disappear before the very end when it's 2 to 3 times more t han it normally would have gone for, especially on industrial items, stuff from belly-up businesses and farm machinery. Where else would a 1948 Ferguson Ford 9n tractor in fair shape go for nearly $10k where they used to get around $5k in way better shape. You have a hard time openly selling one for $7500 Everyone has a gimmick. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tothwolf Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 5:29 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > > > I say I have this novel idea -- the seller marks a reasonable > > > price and the buyer pays that price and gets the product. > > > > Sounds like a good idea to me. > > > > Wouldn't this put ebay out of business tho? ;) > > Yeah, but most people that put stuff on ebay don't have a clue what > things are REALLY worth. (This also applies to some people that are > buying things. And no, $40k for a CISC as400 doesn't seem reasonable > to me.) (I'm sure someone will flame me for this, but oh well :) I used to buy *tons* of stuff at local auctions. Lately, there have been a few idiots who show up at the local auctions and proceed to bid up items higher than they are worth, and then try to resell their "wins" on ebay. Often the items are either big and heavy or nonworking. One common item I used to buy DOA and repair for my own uses were UPS systems. These were often fried (magic smoke long gone), usually repairable, and would sell for $2-5ea. At the last local auction, a wannabe dealer paid $175 or so for a dozen dead UPS. The last auction prior to that, a different wannabe dealer paid $150 for 8-10 of them. Notice it wasn't the same people both times, the first guy had already learned his lesson the hard way. I saw those exact 8-10 dead UPS up on ebay about a week after that auction starting at $50 each. He never was ever able to sell those DOA UPS that weigh 30-40lb each for that price. I'm starting to think they need to institute some kind of intelligence entrance exam for the local auctions :) > People would have to learn what stuff is worth first, and that takes > time- time that people are not willing to spend. Exactly. Theres no way I'd be willing to pay $50 plus shipping for something on ebay that I can pay $5 or even $20 for locally. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 23 07:15:05 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > I used to buy *tons* of stuff at local auctions. Lately, there have > > been a few idiots who show up at the local auctions and proceed to > > bid up items higher than they are worth, and then try to resell their > > "wins" on ebay. Often the items are either big and heavy or > > nonworking. > > We've had a local auction problem lately here too, seems that a few of > the local auctioneers have hired professional shills to come in as > regular bidders and they bid crazily to get the people in the bunch > wound up and into bidding to get the thing going, then they sort of > disappear before the very end when it's 2 to 3 times more than it > normally would have gone for, especially on industrial items, stuff > from belly-up businesses and farm machinery. Where else would a 1948 > Ferguson Ford 9n tractor in fair shape go for nearly $10k where they > used to get around $5k in way better shape. You have a hard time > openly selling one for $7500 I know the auctioneers who handle the local auctions I mentioned, so I somewhat doubt they are hiring anyone to bid up items. The places that own the equipment being auctioned off could be trying to pull a fast one tho. I'm still more inclined to think it's just a case of some people unfamiliar with auctions and resale in general thinking they can make a fortune on ebay. -Toth From west at tseinc.com Wed Jan 23 08:07:10 2002 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Here I Am References: <200201230614.g0N6EfB10238@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <006901c1a417$40af06e0$0101a8c0@jay> Not quite true.... NetBSD's goal IS to run on everything, that is true. However, FreeBSD is not limited to x86 systems. There is something to be said for not just trying to run on everything under the sun - and that directly translates into stability of the OS. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Dittman" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 12:14 AM Subject: Re: Here I Am > > > > b) When I got back I discovered some little punk assed bitch had hacked > > > > into my server and it had to be taken off the local network where it sits > > > > for security reasons. > > > > > > This sucks!!! Something you might want to consider is using OpenBSD for > > > your server. I've been using Linux for over 10 years now, and while I think > > > it's a pretty good desktop OS, and OK as a server, if I want a stable secure > > > server I'll use OpenBSD! Of course OpenBSD sucks in that it doesn't support > > > multiprocessor systems! > > > > That's why you go with NetBSD. > > I seem to remember the difference between NetBSD and FreeBSD > was NetBSD's goal was to run on anything, while FreeBSD's goal > was to run on x86 systems. Has that changed? > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ > From west at tseinc.com Wed Jan 23 08:05:17 2002 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Here I Am References: <200201230401.g0N417t15036@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <004f01c1a416$fd8879a0$0101a8c0@jay> FreeBSD is an extremely simple install. And yes, it fully supports multiple processors. Yes, I am a FreeBSD zealot. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 10:01 PM Subject: Re: Here I Am > > b) When I got back I discovered some little punk assed bitch had hacked > > into my server and it had to be taken off the local network where it sits > > for security reasons. > > This sucks!!! Something you might want to consider is using OpenBSD for > your server. I've been using Linux for over 10 years now, and while I think > it's a pretty good desktop OS, and OK as a server, if I want a stable secure > server I'll use OpenBSD! Of course OpenBSD sucks in that it doesn't support > multiprocessor systems! > > Oh, and yes, I realize you're probably not in the mood for someone > suggesting you switch to a different OS. > > Zane > From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Jan 23 08:10:06 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020123080616.0223da38@pc> At 06:19 AM 1/23/2002 -0600, Russ Blakeman wrote: >Where else would a 1948 Ferguson Ford 9n tractor in fair shape go >for nearly $10k where they used to get around $5k in way better shape. You >have a hard time openly selling one for $7500 Blame it on the yuppie farmers, who like an old 8N or 9N for puttering around the farm. I've just about out-grown my 8N. It's not heavy enough for snowplowing, overheats when I need to do lots of mowing in the late summer, and doesn't have enough hydraulics for a nice lift-bucket. eBay has allowed new levels of regional arbitrage. I doubt they're selling many old tractors there, but it has certainly allowed classic computer collectors to pick up bits and pieces that were terribly rare in their area. - John From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 23 08:25:18 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020123142518.33854.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> > > Where else would a 1948 Ferguson Ford 9n tractor in fair shape go for > > nearly $10k where they used to get around $5k in way better shape. You > > have a hard time openly selling one for $7500 Ack! My 1948 Ford 8N was $3500 from a used tractor dealer in 1999, with a *new* bush hog, *delivered*! I bought it from Southern Ohio because here in Central Ohio, the yuppies with 6-acre lawns were paying $5K and more for them. My baby is currently getting an engine overhaul and will be good for years to come. I'm told I have 10 years left on the tires and overall, it's in fine shape. Just needs usual sorts of parts that wear out (rings, etc.). The mowing deck I got last year was a nice upgrade. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 23 08:30:02 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Looking for some VAX stuff... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020123143002.8455.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com> --- Julius Sridhar wrote: > > Ok. I am looking for two VAX parts. The first is a second set of CPU > boards for my VAX 8700 (to make it an 8800). The second is a DWBUA > boardset with UNIBUS cardcage. This thing is a UNIBUS bridge card for a > BI system, and a UNIBUS cardcage. Thanks. If anyone knows the whereabouts of more than one DWBUA, I'd like to know. Mine fried years ago... it was on my 8300. It worked before we moved it, and after we moved it, I plugged everything in, and a chip let out the magic smoke! Even burned a trace. I have a BA11-K sitting inert next to my works-just-fine 8300. The cables still go from the BA32 backplane, but I'm afraid to use them because I have no idea how unhappy voltages got into the DWBUA card itself. I don't see any obvious mechanical damage, and I'm certain they aren't plugged in wrong, but I do *not* know how this could have happened. So... I wouldn't mind finding a replacement DWBUA card and cable set myself. If I could have gotten the ones from the local Lucent plant when they shut down their VAXcluster, I'd be happy, but it is nearly impossible to get scrap out of them. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From emu at ecubics.com Wed Jan 23 08:38:47 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Here I Am References: <200201230614.g0N6EfB10238@narnia.int.dittman.net> <006901c1a417$40af06e0$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <3C4ECAF7.F9BC4787@ecubics.com> Jay West wrote: > > There is something to be said for not just trying to > run on everything under the sun - and that directly translates into > stability of the OS. So, suddenly windows runs stable, just because they support x86 only ? ;-) From emu at ecubics.com Wed Jan 23 08:39:33 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: HP16C Message-ID: <3C4ECB25.99E0FFF2@ecubics.com> Hi, anybody here has the manuals for it ? cheers & thanks From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Jan 23 09:37:22 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Apple IIc+ Message-ID: <3C4ED8B2.DFB0CAA2@ccp.com> finally got a bootable disk, and my $10 wonder does work, and rather well at that. Now all I need are a 5.25" disk and a 3.5" disk drive that will work with it, and I'll be happy as a worm in a . . . well, er, Apple. Still reading about old VW's and old Ford tractors here on the list, rather than stuff more apropos to the subject. 'Nuff said about both items, now let's get back to 8 bit machines and VAXen. Gary Hildebrand From rhblakeman at kih.net Wed Jan 23 08:52:10 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020123080616.0223da38@pc> Message-ID: There have been old tractors, ag implements, motor homes and other things too big to ship - saw an old Oliver cultivator/row tractor on ebay 3 or 4 months ago. Not too many yuppies here, just stupid people with hilly terrain that a big tractor doesn't work well in. You can't use an 8 wheel pull tractor from the fields of Iowa/Illinois here in most places as the areas are too small and too many trees to navigate. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Foust Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 8:10 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day At 06:19 AM 1/23/2002 -0600, Russ Blakeman wrote: >Where else would a 1948 Ferguson Ford 9n tractor in fair shape go >for nearly $10k where they used to get around $5k in way better shape. You >have a hard time openly selling one for $7500 Blame it on the yuppie farmers, who like an old 8N or 9N for puttering around the farm. I've just about out-grown my 8N. It's not heavy enough for snowplowing, overheats when I need to do lots of mowing in the late summer, and doesn't have enough hydraulics for a nice lift-bucket. eBay has allowed new levels of regional arbitrage. I doubt they're selling many old tractors there, but it has certainly allowed classic computer collectors to pick up bits and pieces that were terribly rare in their area. - John From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jan 23 08:02:53 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Apple IIc+ In-Reply-To: <3C4ED8B2.DFB0CAA2@ccp.com> References: <3C4ED8B2.DFB0CAA2@ccp.com> Message-ID: <02Jan23.101644est.119043@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >rather than stuff more apropos to the subject. 'Nuff said about both >items, now let's get back to 8 bit machines and VAXen. Speaking of VAXen...I've just aquired a DELQA with the CAB kit. What things should I check for when installing the board in a MVII (BA23)? Do I need to install any additional software for use under VMS 4.6? Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 23 09:06:37 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Here I Am In-Reply-To: <004f01c1a416$fd8879a0$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <20020123090344.K4346-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Jay West wrote: > FreeBSD is an extremely simple install. And yes, it fully supports > multiple processors. > > Yes, I am a FreeBSD zealot. Yeah? Well, *my* Oklahoma personalized license plate says "FreeBSD" (for real). Top that! :-) -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Jan 23 09:19:16 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200201231519.JAA21169@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > Blame it on the yuppie farmers, who like an old 8N or 9N > for puttering around the farm. I've just about out-grown my 8N. > It's not heavy enough for snowplowing, overheats when I need > to do lots of mowing in the late summer, and doesn't have > enough hydraulics for a nice lift-bucket. > Eghads, tractor discussions... You did replace the oil and scrape out the gunk from the air filter (actually its just a can with oil that the air sort of bubbles through if i recall correctly). And had someone blow out the radiator if it looks partially clogged? A 8N overheating, that just doesnt happen. I remember plowing 20 acres full of weeds, and the old 8N started overheating after several days. Thats when I learned about that oil filter, never saw so much oily pollen gunk... -Lawrence LeMay From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Jan 23 09:32:00 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E186@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Ok guys, I have to admit first off that I read the tags wrong on that Bell & Howell. It is -- as someone suggested -- an Apple II Plus. Also, it doesn't have the D-shaped cut-outs after all, but rather it has vertical slits with somewhat d-shaped metal inserts in them. (Ok so I didn't look too well.. :) I've cleaned it up, and it looks in good condition, with two exceptions: There is a pin broken off of the power cord :/ -- I'm going to replace it. The monitor connectors are two ethernet-looking BNC plugs (WTF!?) Can anyone tell me what's going on with these? Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 23 09:34:13 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple IIe In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E179@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <20020123092811.A4346-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > I've rescued a Bell & Howell Apple IIe (black, of course) just > yesterday. > > Can anyone tell me anything about what these things were used for, what > I can expect to find in the machine, etc, etc? I have one of those that I rescued from my hometown high school's trash. It is a II or a II+, but I don't remember which at the moment. I asked this question a few months back, and got good answers. I suggest you do the following search on google: bell howell jeffrey site:classiccmp.org -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From LFessen106 at aol.com Wed Jan 23 09:42:17 2002 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update Message-ID: <64.1940c454.298033d9@aol.com> In a message dated 1/23/02 10:39:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, csmith@amdocs.com writes: > Ok guys, I have to admit first off that I read the tags wrong on that Bell & > Howell. It is -- as someone suggested -- an Apple II Plus. > > Also, it doesn't have the D-shaped cut-outs after all, but rather it has > vertical slits with somewhat d-shaped metal inserts in them. (Ok so I > didn't look too well.. :) > > I've cleaned it up, and it looks in good condition, with two exceptions: > > There is a pin broken off of the power cord :/ -- I'm going to replace it. > > The monitor connectors are two ethernet-looking BNC plugs (WTF!?) Can > anyone tell me what's going on with these? > > Regards, > It has been a long time, but if I recall correctly, B&H dealt mostly with schools and businesses, so you probably have some kind of A/V kit on there - 2 composite bnc outputs to run 2 monitors. -Linc. In The Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... Calculating in binary code is as easy as 01,10,11. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020123/ae53b843/attachment.html From ken at seefried.com Wed Jan 23 09:52:05 2002 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Here I Am In-Reply-To: <200201230653.g0N6rq996212@ns2.ezwind.net> References: <200201230653.g0N6rq996212@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <20020123155205.9915.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Sridhar Wrote: >> Of course OpenBSD sucks in that it doesn't support >> multiprocessor systems! > >That's why you go with NetBSD. > Well...maybe. The SMP support in NetBSD is still pretty new, and still lives in an "experimental" CVS branch. While the latest snapshot kernel seems pretty reliable (./build.sh -j 2 works at least twice in a row :-), it's probably not a good thing for production use just yet. YMMV. Other than that, NetBSD is awfully useful. Ken From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Jan 22 23:27:12 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Security bits In-Reply-To: References: <10201221942.ZM12752@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20020123052711.GA644@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 11:45:06PM +0000: > In my experience nothing will grip those other than the right tool. Even > the well known kludgers tool, 'Mole Grips', just spring off.... When all else fails, why not use a very strong epoxy to "weld" a piece of metal, or a bolt, screw, etc. onto the heads of these idiotic security screws, and then just unscrew them by putting a tool onto the attached piece metal, screw, bolt, etc.? Ok, it's a kludge. but it would work. Of course, if you're trying to get something like your cable TV company-owned cable TV converter box open just to have a look around inside (e.g., to make sure there's no microphone, etc. in there - it's residing in your house, so, for your own well-being you have a right to open it up and inspect it), then you probably don't want them to know you've tampered with the screws... of course, you could always use a tool to carefully grind and polish away proof of the attachment once reassembly is complete. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Jan 23 09:54:16 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Here I Am In-Reply-To: <3C4ECAF7.F9BC4787@ecubics.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, emanuel stiebler wrote: > Jay West wrote: > > There is something to be said for not just trying to > > run on everything under the sun - and that directly translates into > > stability of the OS. > > So, suddenly windows runs stable, just because they support x86 only ? Yeah, the assertion that porting to a wider variety of platforms decreases overall stability isn't necessarily correct. One of the goals of NetBSD is to run on as many platforms as possible. What I've learned through my involvement with NetBSD over the past few years is that this wide support of platforms is now only secondary to a more significant /root/ philosophy of the OS development efforts, and that is the focus on the design of highly portable code. The end result is that the various kernel subsystems are clean and extremely well abstracted-- especially in comparison to the competition. Code reuse across the platforms is higher than I've seen anywhere else. It's still not perfect, but it strives to be as point of principle. The process of throwing as much different hardware at NetBSD as possible also means that the OS gets exercised in significantly more ways than any other system out there. This is a great way to find portability and design flaws quickly. Additionally, the constraints you face in trying to create a middle ground between all the systems, with a relatively small group of people, forces you to use good software development practices. It's a huge task to span from the support of 0.9 MIPS MicroVAX-IIs to that of the fastest Alpha and Pentium processors. The NetBSD code has evolved to deal with damn near anything. I think taking this long-view will serve to the advantage of NetBSD in the future. -brian. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Jan 23 10:09:41 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Apple IIc+ Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066302@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> > Speaking of VAXen...I've just aquired a DELQA with the CAB >kit. What things should I check for when installing the board in a >MVII (BA23)? Check that you have no other DELQA/DEQNA in there. Otherwise you need to flick a switch. There's a DEQNA manual at: http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm and I've seen a DELQA manual somehwere too... > Do I need to install any additional software for use >under VMS 4.6? What like OpenVMS V7.2 :-) If you want to use IP you'll need a suitable version of UCX (or a 3rd party equivalent). Either you have one already or it will be tough to get one these days. My recollection is that in those days (pre-LMF) you needed a licence key tape to enable DECnet for any off-node use. Antonio From mtapley at swri.edu Wed Jan 23 10:16:36 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (PS progress) Message-ID: All, Potentially useful info for the list: 1) Stylewriter power supply uses zero-screws (or whatever you call them). 2) Stylewriter PS has a seperate fuse in the - leg of the output, and it's easy to desolder. The long version: Sat down with murder in my eye to work on the power supply. Pete Turnbull wrote (on another thread) >They look like a Torx screw head turned inside out. Imagine something >between a pan head and a round head (ie slightly domed) with six small >notches in the edge. The sides are sloping/curved and they're usually >hardened, and the edges of the notches are slightly rounded off so you >can't get a grip with pliers. There's a picture at >http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/zeroscrew.jpg A perfect description of the three fasteners holding the case together - as I realized once I had them out in the light of day. Unfortunately I *got* them out in the light of day by trying to pop them loose after heating with a soldering iron. Instead of melting the studs the threads were threaded into, I melted the barrels of the recesses the screw heads were in. Things Got Smelly, the case creaked apart, and the recess barrels were left with the studs, screws still firmly in place. However, at that point, I was able to grab the severed barrels, squeeze with pliers until the walls of the barrel gripped the zero-screw head, and twist out the zero-screw. Anybody need 3 slightly used zero-screws? *I* sure as heck don't! To put back together, I plan to find longer pan-head screws with similar diameter and thread pitch, put around the studs plastic soda straws long enough to reach up to the other side of the case, then put the pan-head screws (with washers as needed) through the holes that originally formed the tops of the recessions and through the straws into the studs. (The soda straws are to electrically isolate the screws from whatever voltages are flying around inside, because the recess barrels ain't gonna do it, now being in pieces in my trash can (with extreme prejudice).) Inside, there's a big transformer. One side has 2 leads wired to the blades that go into the wall. The other side has 3 leads going to a circuit board. The leads on either end go through diodes to the "+" output. The lead in the center (marked "C.T" - let me guess - center tap?) goes through a cylindrical glass fuse to the "-" output. There's a big capacitor (electrolytic? Black cylinder) between "+" and "-" and a few small (ceramic?) disk capacators scattered around. The fuse had shuffled off its mortal coil. I mean, even *before* I desoldered it. Which, BTW and of course, I think I did without damaging anything. This thing is so simple even I can almost understand it. Now I need a 3.7 (? something like that) Amp fuse with pigtails, and a couple screws, and who knows, maybe I'll be back in power. Definitely going to be a web-shopping day. Comments, 'attaboys, "enough-already-with-the-d*mn-printer"'s, etc., all welcome. - Mark From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Jan 23 10:21:29 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Here I Am In-Reply-To: <20020123092907.M56871@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On 2002.01.23 07:33 Doc wrote: > > > RedHat has the strangest concept of security I've ever run across. > > They close doors that should be open - sendmail refuses connections on > > port 25 by default - and leave others wide open. Like running > > [unconfigured] apache on every install. > That is the point. If you do a carefull setup, install fixes, ... you > can make Linux as secure as any *BSD. One of the reasons why I prefere > to use a non-Linux OS on a non-PeeCee machine as firewall, is that the > script kiddys don't know how to hack, but only know how to use the > newest exploit... And of course there is a butload of other reasons to > use *BSD instead of Linux... If you don't want script kiddies to be able to use their r00tkitz and spl017z, just run it on something besides a PeeCee... Debian running on a 68040 mac or DecSTATION, etc, would confuse the hell out of them- especially if you make the system report it's a peecee in its headers ;-). Eg. OpenSSH 2.9p1 says it's "OpenSSH 0.1beta5" or "OpenSSH 10.4" :) That should confuse them enuf (athough it takes some work - mostly just re-compiling. 'Just confuse the little jokers.' -- Pat > > > Debian Rulez SLACKWARE RULEZ :P > ...if you want to be a LUser (Linux User) ;-) At least I don't use OS's named after reactions... eg. Wince. (Hey, and more OT, isn't AIX a bad acronym.. even if it is all AIX and pains?) > -- > > > > tschüß, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ > From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed Jan 23 10:23:22 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Here I Am Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467538@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Zane H. Healy > > > b) When I got back I discovered some little punk assed bitch had hacked > > into my server and it had to be taken off the local network where it > sits > > for security reasons. > > This sucks!!! Something you might want to consider is using OpenBSD for > your server. I've been using Linux for over 10 years now, and while I > think > it's a pretty good desktop OS, and OK as a server, if I want a stable > secure > server I'll use OpenBSD! Of course OpenBSD sucks in that it doesn't > support > multiprocessor systems! > > Oh, and yes, I realize you're probably not in the mood for someone > suggesting you switch to a different OS. > > > --- IIRC, NetBSD does support multiple processors, at least on some platforms... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From whdawson at mlynk.com Wed Jan 23 10:23:07 2002 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Osborne Executive and TI MicroLaser Plus free to good home, Hackensack, NJ Message-ID: To all (especially those that are desirous enough of the subject items to drive to Hackensack, NJ), As a participant in the Computer Rescue Squad, I received this email (edited): -> Osborne Executive and a Texas Instruments MicroLaser Plus -> free to good home. Must pick up, I do not have time to ship. -> Thanks. -> Paul. -> Ph.D. I answered with a brief reply indicating that I cannot do so but surely can locate someone who can. Paul's reply to this was: -> A couple of other "Computer Rescuers" have contacted me but the logistics -> are awkward. Do you know anyone who can just stop by the house here and -> pick up some evening? -> Thanks. -> Paul. -> Ph.D. I have Paul's email address and telephone number. If you can meet the requirements of Paul's reply (i.e. 1. STOP BY HOUSE, 2. PICK UP (HACKENSACK, NJ AREA)) please contact me off-list and I will forward his contact details to you. Sorry, but because of the SPAM issues relating to email addresses on this list the last thing I want to do is post someone else's email address here without their permission. 'til later, Bill w1h0d1a0w1s0o1n@m0l1y0n1k.com (my valid email address does not contain any binary digits, to those of you who cannot access it in the header of this posting) http://www.swtpc.com From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Jan 23 10:50:53 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Apple II boards Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E188@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Hi everybody, I have three more Apple questions Given that I'm going to be repairing that Apple II Plus soon, I find myself wondering what is the maximum amount of ram that the machine can address? I also wonder whether it would be remotely possible to "upgrade" it with the old IIGS memory board that I swapped out of my GS a while back ;) (Probably no such luck there...) Last, but not least, what are some recommended boards/peripherals for the Apple II Plus? What about the IIe? (Yep, got one of those too -- I'm sure this one really _is_ a IIe, and I'd be especially interested in knowing about the IIGS upgrade) What about the IIGS? Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From mythtech at Mac.com Wed Jan 23 11:06:51 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Osborne Executive and TI MicroLaser Plus free to good home, Hackensack, NJ Message-ID: >I have Paul's email address and telephone number. If you can meet the >requirements of >Paul's reply (i.e. 1. STOP BY HOUSE, 2. PICK UP (HACKENSACK, NJ AREA)) >please contact me >off-list and I will forward his contact details to you. First, its Hackettstown, not Hackensack (at least that is where he told ME he was... if it was Hackensack, I would have picked it up the night he emailed me, being that Hackensack is 15 minutes from me... Hackettstown is 60 minutes) Second: I already told Paul I would be happy to pick it up. Then he offered to drop it off at my place when he went to CT on Friday. I told him that would be fine, but not to make a special trip (I can't figure a way to get to me that is a route to CT without taking a good 30 minute detour). I guess I will re-email him, and clairfy that I am happy to drive to him to pick it up. -chris From jrengdahl at safeaccess.com Wed Jan 23 11:23:21 2002 From: jrengdahl at safeaccess.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: HP16C References: <3C4ECB25.99E0FFF2@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <02ac01c1a432$a7fed3a0$b9899782@ra.rockwell.com> That's the "hexalator", right? Mine finally gave up the ghost from overuse. You don't need manuals. Just poke at it until you figure it out. IIRC, the programming codes are the row and column of the key. If the number of digits of a result is wider than the screen there is a way to scroll sideways. There is a key sequence to set the word width. Everything else is either obvious (to one who has had an HP before) or written on the back. The manual is probably in a box the attic. The kids will find it after I'm dead. -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 1 Allen-Bradley Drive Advanced Technology Mayfield Heights, OH 44124 USA Mayfield Heights Labs jrengdahl@safeaccess.com 440-646-7326 ----- Original Message ----- From: "emanuel stiebler" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 9:39 AM Subject: HP16C > Hi, > anybody here has the manuals for it ? > > cheers & thanks > From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Jan 23 11:33:28 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Here I Am In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467538@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu>; from DAW@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu on Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 11:23:22AM -0500 References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467538@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <20020123183328.C17673@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 11:23:22AM -0500, David Woyciesjes wrote: > --- IIRC, NetBSD does support multiple processors, at least on some > platforms... The SMP stuf is still experimental and only present in -current. I may call it typical that the first arch that imported SMP from a CVS branch into -curent was - no, not i386 - alpha. The second was - no, not i386 - VAX! I think the next will be i386 - or sparc... :-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From tomtot at charter.net Wed Jan 23 10:33:55 2002 From: tomtot at charter.net (Tom Tottleben) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: New Microscope Eyepiece Video Camera Message-ID: <-303871085.1011805192585.JavaMail.administrator@lp1> Tottleben Scientific Company, Inc. Dear Microscopist: Every once in awhile a new product comes along in the world of microscopy that is truly worthy of 'sounding the horn'. We believe this is one of those times so......here it is.... our new "Eyepiece Video Camera"! It is the very first video camera designed especially to be used on your microscope's binocular. How about that? Now, among us microscope nerds that IS exciting news. About the size of a microscope eyepiece, this ingenious analog camera is easily put into use by removing an eyepiece from your microscope and replacing it with the camera. It is truly as easy as that. It is no longer an absolute must for you to have a "trinocular" microscope to perform video microscopy so this camera will work on any monocular, binocular, or even a trinocular microscope. Now you can see your microscopic images on any tv or, capture and store images on any computer with an additional capture board (a must for emailing images). Eyepiece Video Camera http://www.tscmicroscopes.com How much would a camera that offers this much convenience and capability cost you are undoubtedly asking? And the answer is.....only $245 plus s/h/ins. If you plan on capturing images to your computer you will need a video capture board. We have one available with software for $99.50. (You might want to check your computer to see if you already have one because many of the new computers sold today already have them installed.) Both items can be ordered on-line right on our site or by calling our office. Name Brand Used Microscopes http://www.tscmicroscopes.com In addition we have an abundance of name brand used microscopes like Zeiss, Leitz, Leica, Olympus, and Nikon. We also have used objectives, eyepieces, cameras, and many other microscope accessories for many name brand scopes so please email us or call our office for that 'hard to find' item - we just might have what you have been looking for! Please take a few moments to visit our site for more information and to register for our Free Microscope Drawing (no purchase required) and to receive information on our latest and greatest products like name brand 'used microscopes'. We are committed to providing you the latest products available for online purchase, and as always, outstanding personal service. If you have any questions about our new product offering, please do not hesitate to contact us. Sincerely, Tom Tottleben Tottleben Scientific Company, Inc. ------------------------------------------------ email: tomtot@charter.net voice: 618 656 9008/fax 618 656 9599 web: http://www.tscmicroscopes.com ------------------------------------------------ This email has been sent to classiccmp@classiccmp.org at your request, by Tottleben Scientific Company. Visit our Subscription Center to edit your interests or unsubscribe. http://ccprod.roving.com/roving/d.jsp?p=oo&m=tnjhjce6&ea=classiccmp@classiccmp.org&id=tnjhjce6.ntmspqn6 View our privacy policy: http://ccprod.roving.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp Powered by Constant Contact(R) www.constantcontact.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020123/71f68a58/attachment.html From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jan 23 11:38:51 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: New Microscope Eyepiece Video Camera In-Reply-To: <-303871085.1011805192585.JavaMail.administrator@lp1> Message-ID: Registrant: Charter Communications, Inc. (CHARTER6-DOM) 12405 Powerscourt Drive St. Louis, MO 63131 Domain Name: CHARTER.NET Administrative Contact: MASTER, HOST (HXM966) hostmaster@CHARTERCOM.COM CHARTER COMMUNICATIONS 12444 Powerscourt Drive, Ste. 100 St. Louis, MO 63131 US 636 733 5300 636 394 9797 Technical Contact: Lamar, Scott (SLC582) slamar@CHARTERCOM.COM Charter Communications 12405 Powerscourt Dr. St. Louis, MO 63131 US 314-543-2598 314-965-1503 314-965-1503 Billing Contact: ADMIN, DNS (DXA867) dnsadmin@CHARTERCOM.COM CHARTER COMMUNICATIONS 817 Charter Commons Town and Country, MO 63017 US (636) 733-5300 (636) 394-9797 Complaints have been registered. Doc From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jan 23 11:30:22 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Here I Am In-Reply-To: Re: Here I Am (Jeffrey S. Sharp) References: <004f01c1a416$fd8879a0$0101a8c0@jay> <20020123090344.K4346-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <15438.62254.584084.898144@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 23, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > Yeah? Well, *my* Oklahoma personalized license plate says "FreeBSD" (for > real). Top that! :-) You, sir, are a GEEK! ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 23 11:39:38 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Security bits In-Reply-To: <20020123052711.GA644@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On 23 Jan 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 11:45:06PM +0000: > > In my experience nothing will grip those other than the right tool. Even > > the well known kludgers tool, 'Mole Grips', just spring off.... > When all else fails, why not use a very strong epoxy to "weld" a piece > of metal, or a bolt, screw, etc. onto the heads of these idiotic > security screws, and then just unscrew them by putting a tool onto the > attached piece metal, screw, bolt, etc.? Ok, it's a kludge. but it Why don't you just take a very small [such as dental] burr, and just cut a slot for a screwdriver? From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Jan 23 11:43:26 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: OT: Woz founds new company In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3C4F044E.11609.463912BE@localhost> I got no idea how new this is, but I bound a note in a German newspaper that Steve Wozniak (the guy who broght you the Apple 2) funded a new company. Goal is to design customer products based on GPS technology. The name is said to be Wheels of Zeus (W.O.Z :) and located in Los Gatos. Of course he had no real problem to get venture capital. Well, it's still a bit blury, but if the Woz comes back from 'retirement' to active work in a new company, chances are prety good to get some real nice solutions. He clearly isn't the guy to participate in a marketing bubble. Does anyone of you know more about this ? Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 23 11:54:10 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Here I Am In-Reply-To: <15438.62254.584084.898144@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: > Yeah? Well, *my* Oklahoma personalized license plate says "FreeBSD" (for > real). Top that! :-) One of my students asked what BSD is imprisoned for. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 23 11:55:42 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: OT: Woz founds new company In-Reply-To: <3C4F044E.11609.463912BE@localhost> Message-ID: > Well, it's still a bit blury, but if the Woz comes back > from 'retirement' to active work in a new company, chances > are prety good to get some real nice solutions. He clearly > isn't the guy to participate in a marketing bubble. Remember his programmable remote control? From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 23 11:58:50 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: New Microscope Eyepiece Video Camera In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > Complaints have been registered. Gosh, you beat me to it :P -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 23 12:03:44 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Security bits In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On 23 Jan 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > > Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 11:45:06PM +0000: > > > In my experience nothing will grip those other than the right tool. Even > > > the well known kludgers tool, 'Mole Grips', just spring off.... > > When all else fails, why not use a very strong epoxy to "weld" a piece > > of metal, or a bolt, screw, etc. onto the heads of these idiotic > > security screws, and then just unscrew them by putting a tool onto the > > attached piece metal, screw, bolt, etc.? Ok, it's a kludge. but it > > Why don't you just take a very small [such as dental] burr, and just > cut a slot for a screwdriver? A dremel heavy-duty cutting disc works quite well for this. I've done this to a number of those one-way screws that are not supposed to be removable. -Toth From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Jan 23 12:02:19 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Resolved? HP 9000 800/G40 console cable Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E192@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> I've found what I _think_ is the proper cable for this machine. These bits of info were buried somewhere in the HP web site. I unfortunately don't have the attributions (you can find them right now with a google search), but the general idea is: ------------------- The HP part number for the cable is A1703-63003 and the price is $43 US dollars. This info was found at http://outfield.external.hp.com/cgi-bin/spi/main.pl which is the home page for HP partsurfer, an application that allows toy to identify and order parts for many HP machines. -------------------- Pinout for standard console _cable_ (A1703-63003) is: DIN CONNECTOR FRONT VIEW DIN 25pin 2__1 3.____.2 4____3 6||5 4.____.3 ^ | 1.____.7 KEY --------------------- These were both posted in reply to a question about a different machine -- "F" class I think -- but I have checked HP's "partsurfer" site, and the cable is, indeed, used on the "G" class as well. I have contacted two resellers to see whether I can get it at a reasonable (read: not $46) price. Otherwise I will try to build it. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From rhblakeman at kih.net Wed Jan 23 12:05:12 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: <200201231519.JAA21169@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: It is pretty weird to have computer nerds talking about tractors, like Eddie Arnold on Green Acres I'd say. I believe that's the reason most of us can keep the old computer iron going as we're not the underweight skinny dweebs that know programming but when machine is older they throw it out. It takes someone diverse in mechanics, electronics, shop trades, etc to kep this old stuff going, just like you need to keep an old machine going (truck, car, tractor, etc). -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Lawrence LeMay Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 9:19 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day > > Blame it on the yuppie farmers, who like an old 8N or 9N > for puttering around the farm. I've just about out-grown my 8N. > It's not heavy enough for snowplowing, overheats when I need > to do lots of mowing in the late summer, and doesn't have > enough hydraulics for a nice lift-bucket. > Eghads, tractor discussions... You did replace the oil and scrape out the gunk from the air filter (actually its just a can with oil that the air sort of bubbles through if i recall correctly). And had someone blow out the radiator if it looks partially clogged? A 8N overheating, that just doesnt happen. I remember plowing 20 acres full of weeds, and the old 8N started overheating after several days. Thats when I learned about that oil filter, never saw so much oily pollen gunk... -Lawrence LeMay From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 23 12:24:25 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E186@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > The monitor connectors are two ethernet-looking BNC plugs (WTF!?) > Can anyone tell me what's going on with these? There're a lot of different connectors that get used for composite monitors. For school use, they want one that can withstand some abuse, and will stay on. (When somebody trips over the cord, it should be strong enough to pull the entire machine off of the table.) When I taught a class in Evans 10 (UCBerkeley folk'll know the room), in the wall there was a connector for the overhead video monitors. It was an unusual connector, with a hollow cylindrical plug a few inches long, with a pin in the center. I had to check out a cable each time to use it, until Electronics Etc (R.I.P.) came up with an adapter of that plug to BNC. OB_CC: My TRS-80 model 1 was quite happy sending signal to half a dozen giant overhead monitors. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Jan 23 13:01:29 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E195@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] > There're a lot of different connectors that get used for composite > monitors. For school use, they want one that can withstand > some abuse, > and will stay on. (When somebody trips over the cord, it > should be strong > enough to pull the entire machine off of the table.) Heh. That was my first guess too -- but I've never seen this particular thing used on a composite video signal before. (Well, maybe the L+sync used on b&w monitors...) My assumption will be (until I can check it out) that these are simply split off of the original apple RCA plug on the mainboard, and carry the same signal. (I hope this is the case, since it would be a simple matter of fabricating an adaptor (for which I may have the parts...). > an unusual connector, with a hollow cylindrical plug a few > inches long, > with a pin in the center. I had to check out a cable each Got pictures of this thing? > time to use it, > until Electronics Etc (R.I.P.) came up with an adapter of that plug to > BNC. > OB_CC: My TRS-80 model 1 was quite happy sending signal to > half a dozen > giant overhead monitors. I don't see why it wouldn't be. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Jan 23 13:32:56 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E195@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] > > > There're a lot of different connectors that get used for composite > > monitors. For school use, they want one that can withstand > > some abuse, > > and will stay on. (When somebody trips over the cord, it > > should be strong > > enough to pull the entire machine off of the table.) > > Heh. That was my first guess too -- but I've never seen this > particular thing used on a composite video signal before. (Well, maybe > the L+sync used on b&w monitors...) BNC connectors are used all the time on commercial or professional grade analog video equipment. Working in the 'volunteer cable tv industry' for a few years, it's about all you see on 'more-modern' analog equipment that's worth anything. Older stuff used 'UHF' connectors (basically a very large TNC - about 1" in diameter, and still used for RF stuff). They sell BNC->RCA adaptors at RipoffShack for a few $$ apiece. Not as good as the $1/ea or less that you can get them for from a surplus electroncis dealer, but still fairly decent. -- Pat From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Wed Jan 23 13:15:48 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:54 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146DFB@BUSH02> ..... there was a connector for the overhead video monitors. It was an unusual connector, with a hollow cylindrical plug a few inches long, with a pin in the center. That sounds like a MUSA connector, common in broadcasting but not in domestic equipment. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jan 23 12:50:35 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Here I Am In-Reply-To: <20020123155205.9915.qmail@mail.seefried.com> from "Ken Seefried" at Jan 23, 2002 03:52:05 PM Message-ID: <200201231850.g0NIoZQ12150@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >> Of course OpenBSD sucks in that it doesn't support > >> multiprocessor systems! > > > >That's why you go with NetBSD. > > > > Well...maybe. The SMP support in NetBSD is still pretty new, and still > lives in an "experimental" CVS branch. While the latest snapshot kernel > seems pretty reliable (./build.sh -j 2 works at least twice in a row :-), > it's probably not a good thing for production use just yet. YMMV. > > Other than that, NetBSD is awfully useful. Well, I can see that NetBSD won't be running on my main system any time soon, since I have two CPUs. I'm surprised to hear that NetBSD is just now supporting SMP as I thought that would have been supported already. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jan 23 13:02:48 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Here I Am In-Reply-To: Re: Here I Am (Eric Dittman) References: <20020123155205.9915.qmail@mail.seefried.com> <200201231850.g0NIoZQ12150@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <15439.2264.864376.648069@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 23, Eric Dittman wrote: > Well, I can see that NetBSD won't be running on my main system > any time soon, since I have two CPUs. I'm surprised to hear > that NetBSD is just now supporting SMP as I thought that would > have been supported already. It took forever because most of the SMP code is machine-independent. Since most of the groundwork is now done, the folks working on different architectures only have the machine-specific stuff to do. VAX followed Alpha by a matter of a couple of weeks at most, for example. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de Wed Jan 23 13:20:44 2002 From: ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de (Michael Schneider) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: HP16C In-Reply-To: <3C4ECB25.99E0FFF2@ecubics.com> References: <3C4ECB25.99E0FFF2@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <1011813645.6937.6.camel@silke> Do you need a real manual, or would a PDF be enough? ms On Wed, 2002-01-23 at 15:39, emanuel stiebler wrote: > Hi, > anybody here has the manuals for it ? > > cheers & thanks > -- Michael Schneider email: ms@vaxcluster.de Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de People disagree with me. I just ignore them. (Linus Torvalds) From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jan 23 12:57:14 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: Christopher Smith "Apple II boards" (Jan 23, 10:50) References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E188@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <10201231857.ZM13916@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 23, 10:50, Christopher Smith wrote: > Given that I'm going to be repairing that Apple II Plus soon, I find myself wondering what is the maximum amount of ram that the machine can address? 48K on the motherboard, plus 16K on a standard RAM card (eg Language Card) though I recall some that had 64K (not directly addressable, of course). > I also wonder whether it would be remotely possible to "upgrade" it with the old IIGS memory board that I swapped out of my GS a while back ;) (Probably no such luck there...) No. > Last, but not least, what are some recommended boards/peripherals for the Apple II Plus? What about the IIe? (Yep, got one of those too -- I'm sure this one really _is_ a IIe, and I'd be especially interested in knowing about the IIGS upgrade) What about the IIGS? I'd suggest language card, parallel printer card -- preferably one of the better ones such as a Grappler card, serial card, 80-column card, second Disk ][ card and two more drives if you want to run UCSD, hard drive controller, ... The //e takes the same cards, except that it already has 64K RAM and has no need of a language card; it also has provision for a special 80-column card in Slot 3, set back from the rest of the slots. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 23 12:26:36 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bought the tractor in 1999, and getting an engine overhaul NOW? Just how good a deal do you think that you got? From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jan 23 12:50:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day References: Message-ID: <3C4F05D8.8D95CB29@jetnet.ab.ca> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > Bought the tractor in 1999, and getting an engine overhaul NOW? > Just how good a deal do you think that you got? Who knows that could be the first overhaul in 40 years. :) -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 23 12:44:46 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: References: <3C4DAEE7.ABF1EFC9@rain.org> Message-ID: >But the problem with Yahoo is that hardly anyone sells there (in comparison) >and that stooooopid auto-continue feature they run has made me and many >others pull totally out of Yahoo auctions. Everytime I check for just about >anything on ebay I find a deal, on Yahoo I've found one or two things and >then when I had sniped the auction it continued for 10 more minutes- that's >BS. I won't use Yahoo for the simple fact that they now seem to want an insane amount of personal information in order to bid. Stuff that Yahoo doesn't need laying around on their servers. Of course for all I know, eBay might want the same amount of info for new users. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jan 23 12:45:28 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: from "Russ Blakeman" at Jan 23, 2002 12:05:12 PM Message-ID: <200201231845.g0NIjSA12119@narnia.int.dittman.net> > It is pretty weird to have computer nerds talking about tractors, like Eddie > Arnold on Green Acres I'd say. I believe that's the reason most of us can > keep the old computer iron going as we're not the underweight skinny dweebs > that know programming but when machine is older they throw it out. It takes > someone diverse in mechanics, electronics, shop trades, etc to kep this old > stuff going, just like you need to keep an old machine going (truck, car, > tractor, etc). I grew up around Cat heavy equipment, 18-wheelers, dump trucks, etc., so I know about that stuff (and can operate some of it, too). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Jan 23 13:11:05 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > It is pretty weird to have computer nerds talking about tractors, like Eddie > Arnold on Green Acres I'd say. I believe that's the reason most of us can > keep the old computer iron going as we're not the underweight skinny dweebs > that know programming but when machine is older they throw it out. It takes > someone diverse in mechanics, electronics, shop trades, etc to kep this old > stuff going, just like you need to keep an old machine going (truck, car, > tractor, etc). HEY! I am one of those underweight skinny dweeb programmers! Of course I have some 'classic computer sensibilities' (or to the rest of the world, 'problems' or 'insanity' :) -- Pat From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jan 23 12:56:35 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Security bits In-Reply-To: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" "Re: Security bits" (Jan 23, 9:39) References: Message-ID: <10201231856.ZM13912@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 23, 9:39, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On 23 Jan 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > > Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 11:45:06PM +0000: > > > In my experience nothing will grip those other than the right tool. Even > > > the well known kludgers tool, 'Mole Grips', just spring off.... > > When all else fails, why not use a very strong epoxy to "weld" a piece > > of metal, or a bolt, screw, etc. onto the heads of these idiotic > > security screws, and then just unscrew them by putting a tool onto the > > attached piece metal, screw, bolt, etc.? Ok, it's a kludge. but it > > Why don't you just take a very small [such as dental] burr, and just cut a > slot for a screwdriver? 'Cos they're usually hardened and a dental burr will make little or no impression on it. A cutting disk works, though, when there's room to get at the screw head. It's easier to buy the right tool bit, though. And they're usually so tight that epoxy will give way before you turn it. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Jan 23 13:55:24 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: HP16C In-Reply-To: <1011813645.6937.6.camel@silke> References: <3C4ECB25.99E0FFF2@ecubics.com> <3C4ECB25.99E0FFF2@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020123135449.023eddc0@ubanproductions.com> I would like a PDF copy of the HP16C manual! --tnx --tom At 08:20 PM 1/23/2002 +0100, you wrote: >Do you need a real manual, or would a PDF be enough? > >ms > > >On Wed, 2002-01-23 at 15:39, emanuel stiebler wrote: > > Hi, > > anybody here has the manuals for it ? > > > > cheers & thanks > > >-- >Michael Schneider email: ms@vaxcluster.de >Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de > > People disagree with me. I just ignore them. > (Linus Torvalds) From mythtech at Mac.com Wed Jan 23 14:00:55 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update Message-ID: >(When somebody trips over the cord, it should be strong >enough to pull the entire machine off of the table.) I always loved this logic. Lets build the cable really strong, so that when someone trips on it... we save the $15 cable, but yank the $5000 computer onto the floor breaking it instead. Although, I also understand the flip side... it isn't that the cable is designed to withstand abuse, so much as designed to not fall out easily during standard use (thus rational why all the electric cords for my fire trucks use twist lock... even if it means it will knock over a $3000 light tower rather than unplug itself... the last thing you need at an emergency scene is cords randomly unplugging themselves... and the last thing a school tech person wants to deal with is 100 calls a week because the RCA plug fell out again, and the untrained teachers don't know enough to plug it back in... and things like BNC are used on pro level AV equipment for the same reason, so cables aren't always falling out when something is shifted around) -chris From mythtech at Mac.com Wed Jan 23 14:04:45 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update Message-ID: >Heh. That was my first guess too -- but I've never seen this particular >thing used on a composite video signal before. (Well, maybe the L+sync >used on b&w monitors...) I have a couple of JVC monitors with BNC composite video connectors. These are the monitors salvaged from a video editing suite... I actually saw BNC used for composite video on a fairly regular basis in the TV studios (I think I saw that more often then seeing RCA connectors) >My assumption will be (until I can check it out) that these are simply >split off of the original apple RCA plug on the mainboard, and carry the >same signal. (I hope this is the case, since it would be a simple matter >of fabricating an adaptor (for which I may have the parts...). You can buy a BNC to RCA adaptor from places like Radio Shack (or even a BNC to RCA cable... although I am not sure Rat Shack stocks those anymore... might be special order). Or, like you say, it is fairly trivial to build a custom BNC to RCA cable. -chris From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jan 23 14:03:16 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Osborne Executive and TI MicroLaser Plus free to good home, Hackensack, NJ In-Reply-To: from "Bill Dawson" at Jan 23, 2002 11:23:07 AM Message-ID: <200201232003.g0NK3G612566@narnia.int.dittman.net> If anyone can pick up the Osborne Executive for me I'll pay $50+shipping. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From whdawson at mlynk.com Wed Jan 23 14:14:28 2002 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Osborne Executive and TI MicroLaser Plus free to good home, Hackettstown, NJ` In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You are correct, please excuse my error. I guess the ADD and dyslexia shows? Best of luck in being the next owner. At least out of this there is sort of a lesson to be learned here. Get the stuff as soon as possible after an offer has been made. I've learned this the hard way a couple of times. It seems that when some people make a decision to divest themselves of something that they want rid of it NOW. Maybe so they don't have the time to change their mind? Bill -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chris -> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 12:07 PM -> To: Classic Computer -> Subject: Re: Osborne Executive and TI MicroLaser Plus free to good home, -> Hackensack, NJ -> -> -> >I have Paul's email address and telephone number. If you can meet the -> >requirements of -> >Paul's reply (i.e. 1. STOP BY HOUSE, 2. PICK UP (HACKENSACK, NJ AREA)) -> >please contact me -> >off-list and I will forward his contact details to you. -> -> First, its Hackettstown, not Hackensack (at least that is where he told -> ME he was... if it was Hackensack, I would have picked it up the -> night he -> emailed me, being that Hackensack is 15 minutes from me... Hackettstown -> is 60 minutes) -> -> Second: I already told Paul I would be happy to pick it up. Then he -> offered to drop it off at my place when he went to CT on Friday. I told -> him that would be fine, but not to make a special trip (I can't figure a -> way to get to me that is a route to CT without taking a good 30 minute -> detour). -> -> I guess I will re-email him, and clairfy that I am happy to drive to him -> to pick it up. -> -> -chris -> -> From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jan 23 14:21:27 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Apple II boards References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E188@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <002a01c1a44b$898ce7e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Smith" To: "Classiccmp (E-mail)" Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 9:50 AM Subject: Apple II boards > Hi everybody, > > I have three more Apple questions > > Given that I'm going to be repairing that Apple II Plus soon, I find myself wondering what is the maximum amount of ram that the machine can address? > Take a look at the available data on the 6502 CPU. That will answer some of the questions you'll encounter. The Apple DOS manual is another thing you'll need. It explains almost anything you might wonder about, save the function of some third-party boards. > > I also wonder whether it would be remotely possible to "upgrade" it with the old IIGS memory board that I swapped out of my GS a while back ;) (Probably no such luck there...) > A lot depends on what you're trying to accomplish. If you want an "authentic" Apple-][+, you certainly want to stick with the original memory. The ][+ uses the entire addressable memory space, though it can utilize an additional memory space (mapped on top of other resources) in the form of that 16K add-on board used as the "language" card, IIRC, and necessary to run CP/M with the aid of the Z80 board. > > Last, but not least, what are some recommended boards/peripherals for the Apple II Plus? What about the IIe? (Yep, got one of those too -- I'm sure this one really _is_ a IIe, and I'd be especially interested in knowing about the IIGS upgrade) What about the IIGS? If you're patient, I'm going to be disposing of the considerable assortment of Apple boards I have lying about, including a couple of II+'s and a IIe. The only things I'm likely to keep will be the PSU's. It might be well for you to learn about the Apple-][+ before running out to get various add-on's, so you get the "right" stuff as opposed to a wierd assortment of junk. From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Wed Jan 23 14:34:05 2002 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Looking for a boot disk for OS/9 for a CoCo 3 Message-ID: <3C4F1E3C.CD9EEFFF@verizon.net> Checked on eBay, none available. Anyone have such a thing? Original preferred but will accept a permanent offsite backup as well. Let me know how much you want for it. TIA, Eric From bill_r at inetnebr.com Wed Jan 23 11:42:08 2002 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Xerox 4050 & IBM PS/2 Model 80 Available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8ett4ukiek43j9ch7d8lq14l5ffsv0j039@4ax.com> Well, the 4050 went off in the dump truck this morning, but I snatched the PS/2 from the jaws of death. I can probably keep it safe for a while if someone wants it. On Tue, 22 Jan 2002 16:18:10 -0600, you wrote: >The Xerox 4050 is a printer controller, but appears to be some sort of >mini-computer with a Xerox logo on it; it has a floppy drive and >possibly internal hard drive. If anyone knows anything else about >these, info posted to this list would be appreciated. The thing is >waiting for pickup by a scrapper, whose truck is currently being >repaired. If you get here first, you can have it. It's about the >size and weight of a chest freezer. > >Also available is an IBM PS/2 Model 80-386 micro-channel tower >machine. Includes a micro-channel token-ring network card. > >Both of these items were pulled from use in the last couple of months >and should be in good working order. They are available >_for_local_pickup_only_ in Lincoln, Nebraska. Drop me a note quick if >you want either of them before they go to the big bit-bucket in the >sky! > > > > >Bill Richman >bill_r@inetnebr.com >http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r > >Home of Fun with Molten Metal, technological >oddities, and the original COSMAC Elf >computer simulator! Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r Home of Fun with Molten Metal, technological oddities, and the original COSMAC Elf computer simulator! From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Jan 23 14:47:57 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Apple II boards Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E19A@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > only things I'm likely to keep will be the PSU's. It might > be well for you to > learn about the Apple-][+ before running out to get various > add-on's, so you > get the "right" stuff as opposed to a wierd assortment of junk. Think so? :) I imagine you're right. My question, though, had more to do with what kind of nifty stuff you can get to hook up to it. I have only worked with relatively "vanilla" Apple IIs, so I have little knowledge in that area. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 23 14:59:51 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Xerox 4050 & IBM PS/2 Model 80 Available In-Reply-To: <8ett4ukiek43j9ch7d8lq14l5ffsv0j039@4ax.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Bill Richman wrote: > Well, the 4050 went off in the dump truck this morning, but I snatched > the PS/2 from the jaws of death. I can probably keep it safe for a > while if someone wants it. I wouldn't mind having a model 80, but way too for me to pick up. Got to be someone else here on the list that would like an 80 tho. -Toth From aek at spies.com Wed Jan 23 15:06:44 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: fresh meat to the wolves Message-ID: <200201232106.NAA29896@spies.com> wll599@aol.com wrote: > > Greetings, I will go to the storage room to get the exact model numbers. Off > hand I know I have the 316, Varian 620i (rackmount), 2 pdp 11-05, 2 Data > General Nova 1200 (I think), 1 Computer Automation, and a HP 2114 (I think). > These were all used to test and checkout old "Linc" tape, 10 channel magnetic > tape units, from a company I worked for in the late 70 early 80's. From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Jan 23 15:17:13 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Looking for a boot disk for OS/9 for a CoCo 3 Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E19B@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Chomko [mailto:vze2wsvr@verizon.net] > Checked on eBay, none available. Anyone have such a thing? Original > preferred but will accept > a permanent offsite backup as well. Let me know how much you want for > it. It's been a while, but I seem to remember that there was some of OS/9 on Tandy's "deskmate" disk. It would even give you a prompt if you interrupted it during boot. :) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From pat at transarc.ibm.com Wed Jan 23 15:31:42 2002 From: pat at transarc.ibm.com (Pat Barron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" Message-ID: I happened across one of these recently, and have no real interest in Microdata. So, I've listed the thing on eBay, check it out if interested... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1326034396 --Pat. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jan 23 13:32:48 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Looking for a boot disk for OS/9 for a CoCo 3 References: <3C4F1E3C.CD9EEFFF@verizon.net> Message-ID: <3C4F0FE0.87128EDB@jetnet.ab.ca> Eric Chomko wrote: > > Checked on eBay, none available. Anyone have such a thing? Original > preferred but will accept > a permanent offsite backup as well. Let me know how much you want for > it. > > TIA, > Eric Are you looking for level 1 OS/9 or level 2 OS/9? I think level 1 OS/9 for the coco 2 will work, but its been years since I had a coco. here is the OS/9 FAQ http://os9archive.rtsi.com/os9faq.html -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Jan 23 15:27:47 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: fresh meat to the wolves In-Reply-To: <200201232106.NAA29896@spies.com> Message-ID: Where is this located? Are these being offered for pickup or ? -- Pat On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Al Kossow wrote: > > wll599@aol.com wrote: > > > > Greetings, I will go to the storage room to get the exact model numbers. Off > > hand I know I have the 316, Varian 620i (rackmount), 2 pdp 11-05, 2 Data > > General Nova 1200 (I think), 1 Computer Automation, and a HP 2114 (I think). > > These were all used to test and checkout old "Linc" tape, 10 channel magnetic > > tape units, from a company I worked for in the late 70 early 80's. > From allain at panix.com Wed Jan 23 15:35:46 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: OT: Woz founds new company References: Message-ID: <00e501c1a455$eb8ac480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Remember his programmable remote control? Company: CL9 (Cloud Nine) Product: "Core" Year: 1986+ It was a universal remore control. More universal than even the ones today. It was more complex than it appeared. The ROM and IR sender module could be replaced, it used alpha codes, and there was a hidden panel with 12 extra keys. The basic idea was you could send macro command sets keyed off of a clock scheduler. John A. From marvin at rain.org Wed Jan 23 15:44:26 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Yahoo Vintage Computer Auctions Message-ID: <3C4F2EBA.C64E5FC0@rain.org> I was just looking at the Yahoo Vintage listings, and there is some stuff there that I had only previously seen on Ebay. This is good :)! The URL is: http://list.auctions.shopping.yahoo.com/23341-category-leaf.html From marvin at rain.org Wed Jan 23 15:50:02 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day References: <3C4DAEE7.ABF1EFC9@rain.org> Message-ID: <3C4F300A.A42CCE3A@rain.org> "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > I won't use Yahoo for the simple fact that they now seem to want an insane > amount of personal information in order to bid. Stuff that Yahoo doesn't > need laying around on their servers. Of course for all I know, eBay might > want the same amount of info for new users. Interesting comment. I just registered another ID (I forgot I had already registered) on Yahoo and didn't see anything out of the ordinary or anything that threw out red flags. I just made a bid to see what would happen, and everything worked fine. From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Jan 23 16:44:57 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: New Finds in Houston Message-ID: <01b001c1a45f$a3953e80$508f70d8@default> Well took some time off the job hunt and move to check out some of my old hangouts and found something I have been looking for, it's a working Vectrex in good shape with one controller and no games but the built in one for $25 at a local thrift. I have been watching these go high on eBay and figured I would not be able to get one anytime soon. I also picked up some game cartridges for the 2600, Virtual Boy, Game Gear, Jaguar, and some of the newer machines. The wife is making me hold off on buying until I start working again so I have not gone to any of the auctions here yet. There are 2 auctions here in Houston that you can find good deals at , one is only 2 days a week and the other is everyday. That's it for now keep on computing. From dlw at trailingedge.com Wed Jan 23 16:42:29 2002 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: New Finds in Houston In-Reply-To: <01b001c1a45f$a3953e80$508f70d8@default> References: <01b001c1a45f$a3953e80$508f70d8@default> Message-ID: <1011825756.21874.0.camel@pirate> Nice find. So where are these auctions in Houston? On Wed, 2002-01-23 at 16:44, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > Well took some time off the job hunt and move to check out some of my > old hangouts and found something I have been looking for, it's a working > Vectrex in good shape with one controller and no games but the built in > one for $25 at a local thrift. I have been watching these go high on > eBay and figured I would not be able to get one anytime soon. I also > picked up some game cartridges for the 2600, Virtual Boy, Game Gear, > Jaguar, and some of the newer machines. The wife is making me hold off > on buying until I start working again so I have not gone to any of the > auctions here yet. There are 2 auctions here in Houston that you can > find good deals at , one is only 2 days a week and the other is > everyday. That's it for now keep on computing. > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 23 17:26:39 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Security bits In-Reply-To: <20020123052711.GA644@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Jan 23, 2 00:27:12 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 669 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020123/f17b0116/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 23 18:20:59 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Security bits In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jan 23, 2 09:39:38 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 439 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020124/96abc70d/attachment.ksh From rhblakeman at kih.net Wed Jan 23 17:47:24 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Xerox 4050 & IBM PS/2 Model 80 Available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I mentioned David Beem in NM if Bill wants to ship it and David wants it. Bill can fill you/us in I guess -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tothwolf Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 3:00 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Xerox 4050 & IBM PS/2 Model 80 Available On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Bill Richman wrote: > Well, the 4050 went off in the dump truck this morning, but I snatched > the PS/2 from the jaws of death. I can probably keep it safe for a > while if someone wants it. I wouldn't mind having a model 80, but way too for me to pick up. Got to be someone else here on the list that would like an 80 tho. -Toth From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 23 17:56:55 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Jan 23, 2 05:50:19 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 627 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020123/33d58db4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 23 18:13:21 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (PS progress) In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Jan 23, 2 10:16:36 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2753 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020124/aaa28c90/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 23 07:59:48 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Mystical Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, George Leo Rachor Jr. wrote: > This comes from a person that bought a G4 cube the day they announced > it would be discontinued. I wanted to insure that we got one for my > little collection. You could have waited several years and got it for the fraction of the cost, either online or at a thrift store ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 23 11:52:48 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Wire Recorder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 Penna2@aol.com wrote: > I also have a minifon unfortunately in bits. I would like to restore > it and am trying to obtain as much info. on it as possible. I wondered > weather you might be able to help. I also have a 1942 Armour research > recorder which I have just finished the restoration. It has a wire > reel with some interesting recordings on it.Unfortunatly also a few > breaks and I have not yet found a way of splicing wire! I can see why > they went to tape. Hope to hear from you. Well, this is off-topic, and since you probably aren't subscribed I've cc'd you this message anyway. You can splice wire recording wire by simply tying the two ends together. I've done this with a rat-nested wire spool before and it worked fine. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Jan 23 16:04:26 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: SPAM: was Osborne Executive and TI MicroLaser Plus free to good home, Hackensack, NJ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3C4EDF0A.30376.3451BF0@localhost> This spam thing keeps coming up regarding the list. Since changing ISPs in July I have received NO spam, NADA, RIEN , other than from Ebay and a couple of others that I forgot to check the no email button on. The source is likely newsgroups or some other forum, or companies supposedly secure mailing lists. Lawrence > I have Paul's email address and telephone number. If you can meet the > requirements of > Paul's reply (i.e. 1. STOP BY HOUSE, 2. PICK UP (HACKENSACK, NJ AREA)) > please contact me > off-list and I will forward his contact details to you. > > Sorry, but because of the SPAM issues relating to email addresses on this > list > the last thing I want to do is post someone else's email address here > without > their permission. > > 'til later, > > Bill > > w1h0d1a0w1s0o1n@m0l1y0n1k.com > > (my valid email address does not contain any binary digits, to those of you who > cannot access it in the header of this posting) > > http://www.swtpc.com > > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 23 16:00:32 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: from "Marvin Johnston" at Jan 23, 2002 01:50:02 PM Message-ID: <200201232200.g0NM0WQ18614@shell1.aracnet.com> > Interesting comment. I just registered another ID (I forgot I had > already registered) on Yahoo and didn't see anything out of the ordinary > or anything that threw out red flags. I just made a bid to see what > would happen, and everything worked fine. Maybe they've calmed down on the amount of data they're collecting. When I looked into it a few months ago they wanted among other things a Credit Card number. Thanks, but no thanks Yahoo. Zane From rhblakeman at kih.net Wed Jan 23 17:47:25 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well t hen you're the macho dweeb programmer type :-) -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Pat Finnegan Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 1:11 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > It is pretty weird to have computer nerds talking about tractors, like Eddie > Arnold on Green Acres I'd say. I believe that's the reason most of us can > keep the old computer iron going as we're not the underweight skinny dweebs > that know programming but when machine is older they throw it out. It takes > someone diverse in mechanics, electronics, shop trades, etc to kep this old > stuff going, just like you need to keep an old machine going (truck, car, > tractor, etc). HEY! I am one of those underweight skinny dweeb programmers! Of course I have some 'classic computer sensibilities' (or to the rest of the world, 'problems' or 'insanity' :) -- Pat From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jan 23 16:12:55 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day References: Message-ID: <3C4F3567.391957B2@jetnet.ab.ca> Russ Blakeman wrote: > > Well t hen you're the macho dweeb programmer type :-) > Now where all the female programer types when you want them? :) -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From rhblakeman at kih.net Wed Jan 23 21:47:12 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: <3C4F3567.391957B2@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: I'm still looking for them myself :-) -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ben Franchuk Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 4:13 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day Russ Blakeman wrote: > > Well t hen you're the macho dweeb programmer type :-) > Now where all the female programer types when you want them? :) -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jan 23 22:20:09 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > I'm still looking for them myself :-) > > Well t hen you're the macho dweeb programmer type :-) > > > Now where all the female programer types when you want them? :) I Seem To Recall, from a thread last month, that Chris has scored the only known prototype.... Doc From rhblakeman at kih.net Wed Jan 23 17:47:27 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: <3C4F05D8.8D95CB29@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: Hate to keep this going as OT as it is but my dad's old Ford NAA (1951) had it's first overhaul in 1977 when we pulled it from a scrap yard in South Holland IL, and just this winter it's getting a ring job again mostly due to a real rough 25 yrs of service as the only tractor on a 65 acre overgrown farm with lots of hills and 4 yrs of acting as a skidder to pull logs up hills as they were cut. They made them too good which is why they're still around and worth a lot -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ben Franchuk Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 12:50 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > Bought the tractor in 1999, and getting an engine overhaul NOW? > Just how good a deal do you think that you got? Who knows that could be the first overhaul in 40 years. :) -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Jan 23 16:04:26 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E186@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <3C4EDF0A.2575.3451BC3@localhost> What was the original game plug on the A-IIs ? On my A-II+ I have a socket cabled off the game I/O chip that is 6 bladed (like 3 stacked AC sockets). I've never seen the original A-II Joys and have an analogue adapter to use Atari style Joys. Lawrence > On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > The monitor connectors are two ethernet-looking BNC plugs (WTF!?) > > Can anyone tell me what's going on with these? > > There're a lot of different connectors that get used for composite > monitors. For school use, they want one that can withstand some abuse, > and will stay on. (When somebody trips over the cord, it should be strong > enough to pull the entire machine off of the table.) > > When I taught a class in Evans 10 (UCBerkeley folk'll know the room), in > the wall there was a connector for the overhead video monitors. It was > an unusual connector, with a hollow cylindrical plug a few inches long, > with a pin in the center. I had to check out a cable each time to use it, > until Electronics Etc (R.I.P.) came up with an adapter of that plug to > BNC. > OB_CC: My TRS-80 model 1 was quite happy sending signal to half a dozen > giant overhead monitors. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 23 18:29:12 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: <3C4EDF0A.2575.3451BC3@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Jan 23, 2 04:04:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 456 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020124/ed4e3ab9/attachment.ksh From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Jan 24 00:47:28 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: References: <3C4EDF0A.2575.3451BC3@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Jan 23, 2 04:04:26 pm Message-ID: <3C4F59A0.26019.52406A8@localhost> Well I guess that eliminates the regular Joy or paddles. Ever run across the 6 blade one like on this machine ? I'm curious what it was for. The previous owner had obviously spent a lot of effort on it. It was loaded with boards and he'd added some homemade plexi plates for copy and disks on the cover. Larry > > > > What was the original game plug on the A-IIs ? On my A-II+ I have a socket > > A 16 pin DIL socket (like an IC socket). The Apple paddles were joined up > to a DIP header which invariably gained a few bent pins after a couple of > insertions/removals :-). > > I think the //e also has a DE9 connector on the back carrying a subset of > the signals, enough for a pair of paddles or a joystick. I believe > there's still the 16 pin DIL socket inside. > > -tony > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 23 18:02:24 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E186@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> from "Christopher Smith" at Jan 23, 2 09:32:00 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1046 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020124/55fd8eed/attachment.ksh From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Jan 23 16:04:26 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Digital Products PrintDirector manual ff/shipping Message-ID: <3C4EDF0A.11609.3451C22@localhost> I have an Owners Manual for a Digital Products PrintDirector if anyone has use for it. Free for shipping. Lawrence Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jan 23 16:23:35 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:55 2005 Subject: Apple II boards References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E19A@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <005201c1a45c$99502f00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, as with any other system, once you know about the "vanilla" system, you can easily decide for yourself what additional hardware you need. The way to make sure you never get it right is to run out and snag everything that seems "neat" without first knowing, absolutely, what the consequence of attempting to use it will be. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Smith" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 1:47 PM Subject: RE: Apple II boards > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > > > only things I'm likely to keep will be the PSU's. It might > > be well for you to > > learn about the Apple-][+ before running out to get various > > add-on's, so you > > get the "right" stuff as opposed to a wierd assortment of junk. > > Think so? :) I imagine you're right. My question, though, had more to do > with what kind of nifty stuff you can get to hook up to it. I have only > worked with relatively "vanilla" Apple IIs, so I have little knowledge in > that area. > > Regards, > > Chris > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > > From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Jan 23 16:47:49 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <005201c1a45c$99502f00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <200201232247.QAA06283@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > Well, as with any other system, once you know about the "vanilla" system, you > can easily decide for yourself what additional hardware you need. The way to > make sure you never get it right is to run out and snag everything that seems > "neat" without first knowing, absolutely, what the consequence of attempting > to use it will be. > > Dick Thats starting to sound a bit like white-coat syndrome. These computers are not rare artifacts to be hidden away behind glass walls, only to be touched by the neophites in white lab coats, you know. Go ahead and experiment, heck throw the completely wrong hardware in and cause a major short circuit! And in so doing, know that you can always get another apple ][+ or 3 for about $5 (if not for free, heaven knows i keep getting offered the things...) Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 perhaps... -Lawrence LeMay From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jan 23 19:39:11 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Apple II boards References: <200201232247.QAA06283@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <001701c1a477$ec9a8e60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You're right, he can do that. However, if he does, he won't know any more when he's done than when he started. The thing of value is the user's time. My objection to Apple hardware/software has always been their total disregard for the user's time and data. However, if the user is unwilling to learn what the system does before "doing" it, he gets what he deserves. IN this case, it means that instead of learning something meaningful, he learns less than nothing. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence LeMay" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 3:47 PM Subject: Re: Apple II boards > > Well, as with any other system, once you know about the "vanilla" system, you > > can easily decide for yourself what additional hardware you need. The way to > > make sure you never get it right is to run out and snag everything that seems > > "neat" without first knowing, absolutely, what the consequence of attempting > > to use it will be. > > > > Dick > > Thats starting to sound a bit like white-coat syndrome. These computers > are not rare artifacts to be hidden away behind glass walls, only to be > touched by the neophites in white lab coats, you know. Go ahead and > experiment, heck throw the completely wrong hardware in and cause a > major short circuit! And in so doing, know that you can always get another > apple ][+ or 3 for about $5 (if not for free, heaven knows i keep getting > offered the things...) > > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 perhaps... > > -Lawrence LeMay > > From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Thu Jan 24 03:52:11 2002 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <200201232247.QAA06283@caesar.cs.umn.edu> References: <200201232247.QAA06283@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <61487.62.148.198.97.1011865931.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Lawrence LeMay said: > > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 > perhaps... Well, depends on the place. I've seen one Cray 1 in a private collection, one IBM 360 (in the same place) and one Apple II. It's a different thing for C64's though. But older Apples are really hard to find over here (in .fi) -- jht From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Jan 24 00:47:28 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <200201232247.QAA06283@caesar.cs.umn.edu> References: <005201c1a45c$99502f00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3C4F59A0.26053.524063E@localhost> I guess you don't follow Epay very much. Since the A-2s have started to become scarce, II+'s have become a rising commodity. I'd be only very happy to take any you get for that price off your hands and give you double that. A black Bell and Howell would fetch well over a $100 even with the downturn in the economy. Lawrence > > Thats starting to sound a bit like white-coat syndrome. These computers > are not rare artifacts to be hidden away behind glass walls, only to be > touched by the neophites in white lab coats, you know. Go ahead and > experiment, heck throw the completely wrong hardware in and cause a > major short circuit! And in so doing, know that you can always get another > apple ][+ or 3 for about $5 (if not for free, heaven knows i keep getting > offered the things...) > > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 perhaps... > > -Lawrence LeMay Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Jan 23 17:08:44 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Apple II boards Message-ID: <5f.2149e929.29809c7c@aol.com> In a message dated 1/23/02 5:54:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, lemay@cs.umn.edu writes: << Well, as with any other system, once you know about the "vanilla" system, you > can easily decide for yourself what additional hardware you need. The way to > make sure you never get it right is to run out and snag everything that seems > "neat" without first knowing, absolutely, what the consequence of attempting > to use it will be. > > Dick Thats starting to sound a bit like white-coat syndrome. These computers are not rare artifacts to be hidden away behind glass walls, only to be touched by the neophites in white lab coats, you know. Go ahead and experiment, heck throw the completely wrong hardware in and cause a major short circuit! And in so doing, know that you can always get another apple ][+ or 3 for about $5 (if not for free, heaven knows i keep getting offered the things...) Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 perhaps... >> just because they are plentiful in /some/ places doesnt mean you should just abuse them for fun. Around here, I havent seen any apple // items available for years. old computers, old cars and sundry items www.nothingtodo.org From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Jan 23 17:27:06 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <5f.2149e929.29809c7c@aol.com> Message-ID: <200201232327.RAA07103@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > just because they are plentiful in /some/ places doesnt mean you should just > abuse them for fun. Around here, I havent seen any apple // items available > for years. > Well, the university here is still disposing of them. they keep popping up frequently as people clean out their offices. I imagine there are still lots of high schools that have that legendary closet full of apples that someone hid away for spare parts... I just looked at ebay and they seem to have tons of apple II parts with little or no bidding. -Lawrence LeMay From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jan 23 15:42:13 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Apple II boards References: <200201232327.RAA07103@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3C4F2E35.CF40E46F@jetnet.ab.ca> Lawrence LeMay wrote: > Well, the university here is still disposing of them. they keep popping up > frequently as people clean out their offices. I imagine there are still > lots of high schools that have that legendary closet full of apples that > someone hid away for spare parts... I just looked at ebay and they seem > to have tons of apple II parts with little or no bidding. OH - NO!! they have been breeding... -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jan 23 17:40:09 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <5f.2149e929.29809c7c@aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > just because they are plentiful in /some/ places doesnt mean you should just > abuse them for fun. Around here, I havent seen any apple // items available > for years. Maybe because you cleaned out the county? I think me & Bill Bradford alone have double the value of old DEC & Sun hardware in Austin.... Doc From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Jan 23 17:11:46 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Apple II boards Message-ID: <184.28be879.29809d32@aol.com> In a message dated 1/23/02 3:25:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, edick@idcomm.com writes: << If you're patient, I'm going to be disposing of the considerable assortment of Apple boards I have lying about, including a couple of II+'s and a IIe. The only things I'm likely to keep will be the PSU's. It might be well for you to learn about the Apple-][+ before running out to get various add-ons, so you get the "right" stuff as opposed to a wierd assortment of junk. >> Hopefully, you will offer these goodies here before ebaying them off. I've a huge stash of apple goodies, but always could use more. wish i could find a clock card... old computers, old cars and sundry items www.nothingtodo.org From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Jan 23 17:15:24 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Apple II boards Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E19D@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Lawrence LeMay [mailto:lemay@cs.umn.edu] > Thats starting to sound a bit like white-coat syndrome. These > computers > are not rare artifacts to be hidden away behind glass walls, > only to be > touched by the neophites in white lab coats, you know. Go ahead and > experiment, heck throw the completely wrong hardware in and cause a > major short circuit! And in so doing, know that you can Well, I'd _rather_ not do that. :) It seems kind of a waste when you could do things right and the world could have one more functional machine. > always get another > apple ][+ or 3 for about $5 (if not for free, heaven knows i > keep getting > offered the things...) I hope that they remain that common into the foreseeable future. > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? > A C64 perhaps... Possibly, with an IBM peesee XT generally coming in as less valuable than that. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jan 23 19:46:15 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Apple II boards References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E19D@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <002701c1a478$e902f340$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The things take up lots of valuable space, yet aren't of much value if you don't learn what you can. You can learn a few things from an Apple-era computer, but not if you don't pay attention. Just getting a bunch of boards and trying to run them without knowing what's going on is a sure way to waste a bunch of space and time, and produce no useful knowledge. It's true that Apple II sorts of computers are not worth a lot of money. I bought one with two disk drives yesterday for $8. Of course, I did this just to get the PSU, which I consider to be the only part worth fiddling with, nowadays. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Smith" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 4:15 PM Subject: RE: Apple II boards > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lawrence LeMay [mailto:lemay@cs.umn.edu] > > > Thats starting to sound a bit like white-coat syndrome. These > > computers > > are not rare artifacts to be hidden away behind glass walls, > > only to be > > touched by the neophites in white lab coats, you know. Go ahead and > > experiment, heck throw the completely wrong hardware in and cause a > > major short circuit! And in so doing, know that you can > > Well, I'd _rather_ not do that. :) It seems kind of a waste when you could do things right and the world could have one more functional machine. > > > always get another > > apple ][+ or 3 for about $5 (if not for free, heaven knows i > > keep getting > > offered the things...) > > I hope that they remain that common into the foreseeable future. > > > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? > > A C64 perhaps... > > Possibly, with an IBM peesee XT generally coming in as less valuable than that. > > Regards, > > Chris > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > > From cbajpai at mediaone.net Wed Jan 23 21:33:33 2002 From: cbajpai at mediaone.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Apple II boards (parts wanted) In-Reply-To: <002701c1a478$e902f340$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <000701c1a487$e6974ca0$017ba8c0@ne.mediaone.net> If any one wants to part with an Apple II parts please contact me...I'm in dire need of a II+ motherboard (or complete unit) and the associated other bits (floppy controller, memory board, etc - a 3.3 boot disk wouldn't be so bad either). I'll pay a reasonable amount + shipping. -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 8:46 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Apple II boards The things take up lots of valuable space, yet aren't of much value if you don't learn what you can. You can learn a few things from an Apple-era computer, but not if you don't pay attention. Just getting a bunch of boards and trying to run them without knowing what's going on is a sure way to waste a bunch of space and time, and produce no useful knowledge. It's true that Apple II sorts of computers are not worth a lot of money. I bought one with two disk drives yesterday for $8. Of course, I did this just to get the PSU, which I consider to be the only part worth fiddling with, nowadays. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Smith" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 4:15 PM Subject: RE: Apple II boards > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lawrence LeMay [mailto:lemay@cs.umn.edu] > > > Thats starting to sound a bit like white-coat syndrome. These > > computers > > are not rare artifacts to be hidden away behind glass walls, > > only to be > > touched by the neophites in white lab coats, you know. Go ahead and > > experiment, heck throw the completely wrong hardware in and cause a > > major short circuit! And in so doing, know that you can > > Well, I'd _rather_ not do that. :) It seems kind of a waste when you could do things right and the world could have one more functional machine. > > > always get another > > apple ][+ or 3 for about $5 (if not for free, heaven knows i > > keep getting > > offered the things...) > > I hope that they remain that common into the foreseeable future. > > > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? > > A C64 perhaps... > > Possibly, with an IBM peesee XT generally coming in as less valuable than that. > > Regards, > > Chris > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > > From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Jan 23 20:02:35 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Apple II boards Message-ID: <96.20db7ebb.2980c53b@aol.com> In a message dated 1/23/02 8:53:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, edick@idcomm.com writes: << The things take up lots of valuable space, yet aren't of much value if you don't learn what you can. You can learn a few things from an Apple-era computer, but not if you don't pay attention. Just getting a bunch of boards and trying to run them without knowing what's going on is a sure way to waste a bunch of space and time, and produce no useful knowledge. >> I seriously doubt you can learn any less or more than any other computer of the time. Using any computer will teach you basic concepts that one needs to know provided one pays attention. old computers, old cars and sundry items www.nothingtodo.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 23 18:19:23 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: HP16C In-Reply-To: <02ac01c1a432$a7fed3a0$b9899782@ra.rockwell.com> from "Jonathan Engdahl" at Jan 23, 2 12:23:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1242 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020124/10141c03/attachment.ksh From jrengdahl at safeaccess.com Wed Jan 23 21:36:58 2002 From: jrengdahl at safeaccess.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: HP16C References: Message-ID: <009101c1a488$942a6b40$2be11840@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> I got the back off my dead 16C, but something is holding the PC board into the front of the case. Isn't there one of Murphy's laws that says that you never figure out how something comes apart until you have broken it? I don't want to do that. How do you get it apart? The first thing you see once you get the back off is a hefty PC board with the two chips on it. I have a 34C, still working, except the ^ and x<>y key bubbles are worn out. It used something called RSS (Roger's Solderless System?) -- a plastic frame holds all the chips in place and presses them against a flexi circuit. It worked OK for a while, then I had to take it all apart and solder the chips to the flexi. I tore out the strip of flexi that went to the battery connector, replaced it with wire wrap wires, and cut a hole in the side and installed a real power switch. Nasty job -- the flexi didn't want to tin at all. -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 1 Allen-Bradley Drive Advanced Technology Mayfield Heights, OH 44124 http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl jrengdahl@safeaccess.com "The things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 7:19 PM Subject: Re: HP16C > > > > That's the "hexalator", right? Mine finally gave up the ghost from overuse. > > The 'voyagers' (HP10C, 11C, 12C, 15C, 16C) went through various hardware > versions. The earliest ones have a separate logic module built on a > flexible PCB clamped to the display the connects to the keyboard via a > zebra strip connector. Later versions put everything on one PCB. And the > even later versions (12C only I think -- the others having been > discontinued by then) put everything into one chip. > > The older machines contain 2 chips. The smaller one is the 'Nut' CPU. > This is very similar to the CPU used in the HP41, for example. The CPU > also contains the keyboard scanning circuitry. > > The larger chips is called 'R2D2' (seriously!). It stands for > 'ROM/RAM/Display Driver'. It's everything else. ROM containing the code > to make the machine behave as a 16C (or whatever). RAM for user programs > and data. And the LCD driver. > > FWIW, Voyagers suffer from bad connections. On the separate logic module > versions. always clean the zebra strip before doing anything else. If > that doesn't help, or if it's all one one PCB, then try resoldering the > chips (fine surface-mount connections). I've had a lot of dry joint > problems in this series. > > -tony > > From jrengdahl at safeaccess.com Wed Jan 23 21:37:27 2002 From: jrengdahl at safeaccess.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: HP16C References: <3C4ECB25.99E0FFF2@ecubics.com> <02ac01c1a432$a7fed3a0$b9899782@ra.rockwell.com> Message-ID: <009401c1a488$96f30120$2be11840@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> > From: "emanuel stiebler" > Subject: HP16C > > > > Hi, > > anybody here has the manuals for it ? > > > > cheers & thanks > > I looked in the attic. I found an Intel 432 architecture manual, Occam programming manual, Fairchild F8 and Clipper blurbs, a complete Rockwell 6502 development system, BBC Archimedes software guide, some VAX books, a Z80 pocket reference card, an OS/32MT pocket ref, HP2100A book, a mylar tape, a stack of punch cards -- Nope, that's too far back. It's not here. Sorry. I did find my dead 16C. Here's an idea --- we could write our own manual out of our heads. What's the LJ key do? -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 1 Allen-Bradley Drive Advanced Technology Mayfield Heights, OH 44124 http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl jrengdahl@safeaccess.com "The things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 From dpeschel at eskimo.com Wed Jan 23 23:12:19 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: HP16C In-Reply-To: <009401c1a488$96f30120$2be11840@rcs.ra.rockwell.com>; from jrengdahl@safeaccess.com on Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 10:37:27PM -0500 References: <3C4ECB25.99E0FFF2@ecubics.com> <02ac01c1a432$a7fed3a0$b9899782@ra.rockwell.com> <009401c1a488$96f30120$2be11840@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> Message-ID: <20020123211219.A13179@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 10:37:27PM -0500, Jonathan Engdahl wrote: > Here's an idea --- we could write our own manual out of our > heads. What's the LJ key do? You used to be able to order the manual from HP. God knows whether they provide that service now. (And they screwed up the copying of my HP-97 manual.) I have one extra Xerox copy of the manual from HP (I got it, then I got an original manual.) LJ is left justify. Given a word with leading 0s, it removes them; it also returns the number of leading 0s. Before -- x n 0 bits, 1 bit, other stuff After -- x y n 1 bit, other stuff A few other exotic operations include counting 1 bits and generating masks. Let me know if you have more questions. -- Derek From hansp at aconit.org Thu Jan 24 00:51:40 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: HP16C References: <3C4ECB25.99E0FFF2@ecubics.com> <3C4ECB25.99E0FFF2@ecubics.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20020123135449.023eddc0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3C4FAEFC.3050104@aconit.org> Tom Uban wrote: > I would like a PDF copy of the HP16C manual! That is availableion the CD's put out by the Museum of HP Calculators at http://www.hpmuseum.org/ -- hbp From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 23 19:04:38 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Here I Am In-Reply-To: <15438.62254.584084.898144@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20020123185914.D5542-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > On January 23, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > > > Yeah? Well, *my* Oklahoma personalized license plate says "FreeBSD" (for > > real). Top that! :-) > > You, sir, are a GEEK! ;) Thank you for the compliment. Many people mistake it for 'freebased' and think that I am a cocaine addict. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From DolliemaeD at aol.com Wed Jan 23 21:45:16 2002 From: DolliemaeD at aol.com (DolliemaeD@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: %20Ebay:%20Stuff%20&%20%20Help%20needed%20with%20Osborne%201 Message-ID: hi hope you can help me i need to know where to go to find out how much my items cost on the auction From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Wed Jan 23 22:04:29 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Mastersport 386SX Message-ID: <20020124040651.KTYD24613.imf09bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Does anyone have the wart for this Zenith Data Systems laptop? Or the pinouts for the wart, even? TIA, Glen 0/0 From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Wed Jan 23 23:30:59 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Z-100 serial ports Message-ID: <20020124053321.NRZP17196.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Although I have (I believe) all of the manuals for the Zenith Z-100 (not Z-100 pc), I cannot find any reference to the serial ports on this box. What are the addresses of the DTE and DCE ports? I'd like to write some assembly code to access these devices (under CP/M-86) but want to control them at the hardware level instead of making BDOS calls. Any help out there? TIA, Glen 0/0 From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Jan 24 01:05:21 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Looking for a boot disk for OS/9 for a CoCo 3 References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E19B@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <3C4FB231.5CBC18F3@ccp.com> Christopher Smith wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eric Chomko [mailto:vze2wsvr@verizon.net] > > > Checked on eBay, none available. Anyone have such a thing? Original > > preferred but will accept > > a permanent offsite backup as well. Let me know how much you want for > > it. > > It's been a while, but I seem to remember that there was some of OS/9 on Tandy's "deskmate" disk. It would even give you a prompt if you interrupted it during boot. :) > > Regards, > > Chris > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); I knew a guy who was into that way back about 17 years ago. His name is Gene Gatlin, works for Pacific Lutherna University, and lives somewhere in the suburban Tacoma WA area. You might do a google search on the name; I think he has a web page. You might mention my name, as we worked together briefly back in the mid 80's. Gary Hildebrand ST. Joseph, MO From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jan 24 05:01:19 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > True, but unfortunately I don't currently own or have access to such a > > I wouldn't apply mains to any transformer I'd not meggered. Heck, I > wouldn't apply mains to _anything_ I'd not meggered, and this applies to > brand new consumer electrics/electronics too. > > Second-hand meggers are not hard to find in the UK, and are not that > expensive (I paid \pounds 25.00 for an insulation tester, not Megger > brand, but well built, and with selectable test voltages, etc). What would you suggest I look for in a tester? I've been thinking about getting one for awhile, but I wasn't sure what to look for? Any particular brand or functions to look for or even avoid? -Toth From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 23 18:25:45 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E195@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> from "Christopher Smith" at Jan 23, 2 01:01:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 665 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020124/1924e502/attachment.ksh From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jan 24 05:21:05 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > In the UK it's even used on reasonoable-grade consumer video equipment. > Are you saying it's not common in the States? Here in the states consumer grade electronics typically use "RCA connectors", also known as "phono connectors". High end gear and professional equipment usually has BNC connectors. -Toth From dmabry at mich.com Thu Jan 24 05:35:05 2002 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Mastersport 386SX References: <20020124040651.KTYD24613.imf09bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <3C4FF169.FCC77DAC@mich.com> Sorry to be dense, but what is a "wart" in this context? Glen Goodwin wrote: > > Does anyone have the wart for this Zenith Data Systems laptop? > > Or the pinouts for the wart, even? > > TIA, > > Glen > 0/0 -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From auringer at tds.net Thu Jan 24 08:15:40 2002 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Fate of the Astronautics ZS-1 systems Message-ID: <3C50170C.D161248A@tds.net> Hello all, I had promised to post an update when the fate of the ZS-1 systems had been decided. Here it is. After negotiating with my company (Astronautics) for the release of the four remaining complete systems that sit at our Technology Center in Madison Wisconsin, we were able to secure one of the machines for the Rhode Island Computer Museum. The company is not the least bit interested in preserving the other three. They are destined to be scrapped. We tried. :( Merle Peirce will be in Madison this saturday, January 26th, to pick up the machine and _lots_ of spares for RICM. We will also be moving the DEC VAX 11/780 systems and other equipment at that time. If you are in the area and would like to lend a hand, please let me know. I am sure that we will be able to find a few souvenirs that will make it worthwhile. Merle plans to be at Astronautics around 9am saturday. Thankfully, the weather forecast calls for unseasonably warm temperatures this weekend (lower 40's). Again, please let me know if you plan to come. Thanks, Jon Jon Auringer auringer@tds.net P.S. To anyone who I may have failed to reply to personally, I apologize. The flood of e-mail that was generated by my posts about the ZS systems and the 11/780s was overwhelming. Between this, preparing to move our facility, and the possibility of pending unemployment, I have been having trouble keeping all of the balls in the air. From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 24 09:09:26 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Apple II boards References: <200201232247.QAA06283@caesar.cs.umn.edu> <61487.62.148.198.97.1011865931.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: <004501c1a4e9$1d5db420$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If they're popular enough in .fi, perhaps we can save a few landfills from them by sending 'em to interested parties there. An Apple IIe is not uncommonly priced at $5 around here (I just bought one that had a couple of drives bundled with it for $8, though all I wanted was the PSU) . A IIc is not uncommon at that price either. It's been a while since I saw more than one ][+ in the same store, but those seldom cost more than $10, and usually closer to $5. I would estimate that the freight would exceed that amount by quite a little bit. Disk drives are often together with these units, though that propels their cost into the $10-$12 range. I can't recommend Apple Monitors, since those were really not available in the Apple ][+ era. I've got an Apple IIe with a color monitor. The monitor ran the price of the whole thing up to $20. The extra weight would probably run the shipping cost to .fi into the ruinous range. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jarkko Teppo" To: Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 2:52 AM Subject: Re: Apple II boards > Lawrence LeMay said: > > > > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 > > perhaps... > > Well, depends on the place. I've seen one Cray 1 in a private collection, > one IBM 360 (in the same place) and one Apple II. > > It's a different thing for C64's though. But older Apples are really > hard to find over here (in .fi) > > -- > jht > > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jan 24 10:12:13 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <61487.62.148.198.97.1011865931.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> from Jarkko Teppo at "Jan 24, 2 11:52:11 am" Message-ID: <200201241612.IAA10776@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 > > perhaps... > > Well, depends on the place. I've seen one Cray 1 in a private collection, > one IBM 360 (in the same place) and one Apple II. > > It's a different thing for C64's though. But older Apples are really > hard to find over here (in .fi) Now, remember -- the fact that C64s are cheap does not make them any less valuable. ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Death to spammers! http://spam.abuse.net/spam/ ----------------------------- From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 24 09:14:26 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: Message-ID: <005701c1a4e9$d03739e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Actually, back in the Apple][ days, the BNC was not commonly used for video and particularly not for NTSC video. The most common connector for video back then was the PL259 (?), which was really common on "security" monitors and others of that ilk. I've still got a few of them from back then, and that's what they had on them. It wasn't uncommon to see them with two of the things for chaining them, though that probably wasn't common on monitors for the home computer market. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 5:25 PM Subject: Re: Bell & Howell Apple II update > > Heh. That was my first guess too -- but I've never seen this > > particular thing used on a composite video signal before. (Well, maybe > > the L+sync used on b&w monitors...) > > BNC is a _very_ common connector for composite video. Just about all the > video equipment I have here either uses it as standard, or has adapters > (maybe home-made) to use it. > > It's a rather good connector, fairly constant characteristic impedance > .vs. frequency, splashproof (!) at least, easy to connect/disconnect (but > it won't fall out) and so on. > > In the UK it's even used on reasonoable-grade consumer video equipment. > Are you saying it's not common in the States? > > -tony > > From csmith at amdocs.com Thu Jan 24 09:58:46 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1A0@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > In the UK it's even used on reasonoable-grade consumer video > equipment. > Are you saying it's not common in the States? Not so much. All consumer equipment that I've seen only has "RCA" plugs. I guess it's kind of common on ethernet adaptors ;) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Thu Jan 24 10:01:25 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1A1@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > You do realise that BNC connectors were used for RF and video Well, it stands to reason, I suppose. > applications long before there was any form of ethernet, I > take it. The > video ones are likely to be '75 Ohm' characterisic impedance, > so you'd > have to get the right plugs to fit them. 50 Ohm plugs will > fit, but the > larger centre pin will spread out the contacts on the socket. > And anyway > you'll have an impedance mismatch. I doubt you'd notice the slight > ringing from that on the screen, but it never hurts to do > things right. I have a 50-75 ohm converter, I believe. I'll need to dig it up. > it's separate outputs for the standard (40 column) video from the > motherboard and for video from an 80 column expansion card. Hadn't thought of that. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Thu Jan 24 09:56:43 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E19F@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Franchuk [mailto:bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca] > Now where all the female programer types when you want them? :) Very difficult to find. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jan 24 10:23:27 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E19F@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> from Christopher Smith at "Jan 24, 2 09:56:43 am" Message-ID: <200201241623.IAA12594@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Now where all the female programer types when you want them? :) > > Very difficult to find. So what does that make Megan and Allison? :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Proponents of other opinions will be merrily beaten to a bloody pulp. ------ From csmith at amdocs.com Thu Jan 24 10:13:13 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1A2@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > > Now where all the female programer types when you want them? :) > I Seem To Recall, from a thread last month, that Chris has > scored the > only known prototype.... Heh. Maybe with enough tinkering you could make a workable one out of a stock model? I would offer detailed technical information, but I'm not sure how long I can get her to hold leads from an oscilloscope. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Jan 24 10:28:51 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Fate of the Astronautics ZS-1 systems Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146754F@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Jon Auringer > > Hello all, > ...... > After negotiating with my company (Astronautics) for the release of the > four remaining complete systems that sit at our Technology Center in > Madison Wisconsin, we were able to secure one of the machines for the > Rhode Island Computer Museum. The company is not the least bit > interested in preserving the other three. They are destined to be > scrapped. We tried. :( ...... ======== That's a bummer. Can you at least rip parts out of them, for spares for the R.I.C.M? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From csmith at amdocs.com Thu Jan 24 10:30:04 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: IBM 3151 terminals (Which keyboard?) Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1A4@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> I've recently received a small pile of IBM 3151 terminals. All seem functional. I also have a pile of IBM keyboards, some of which look like they may fit the terminals. The two keyboard types of interest (IE the ones with modular plugs) are: A model "1397952" -- this one has an 8-wire modular plug. When plugged into one of the terminals, it will say something on the order of "PROBLEM IN KEYBOARD" A keyboard that's not clearly marked at all, but the longest identifier-looking number on the tag is 122RK33S(or 5)-30S(or 5)E-J. This has (I think) a 6-wire modular plug. It has a panel of dip switches near where the cord connects. When plugged in this one reports the (more interesting) error of "PROBLEM IN VIDEO ELEMENT OR KEYBOARD" (My guess it it's in the keyboard...) Both keyboards have 24 "function" keys, and a panel of odd keys to the left of the alpha section. So does anyone know what these particular keyboards actually go with? Can I maybe change the switch settings in the latter keyboard, and get it to work with these terminals? Does anyone know what the switches even do? Why don't the terminals report odd numeric errors? "PROBLEM IN KEYBOARD" is almost understandable ;) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From foxvideo at wincom.net Thu Jan 24 10:28:53 2002 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Mastersport 386SX In-Reply-To: <3C4FF169.FCC77DAC@mich.com> References: <20020124040651.KTYD24613.imf09bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020124112734.00b15538@mail.wincom.net> At 06:35 AM 24/01/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Sorry to be dense, but what is a "wart" in this context? > >-- >Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com >Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team >NACD #2093 He is probably referring to a "wall wart", a transformer that plugs directly into an AC outlet. Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From mercuriusint at earthlink.net Thu Jan 24 10:29:38 2002 From: mercuriusint at earthlink.net (Ronald Pierce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Tall Trees Jlaser documentation needed Message-ID: <3C503672.FA89B64B@earthlink.net> I need documentation for a Tall Trees Jlaser-3 (with JRAM AT3-P) and Jlaser-5 board. I need to change some on-board switches. Can anyone help? Ron Pierce -- Ron Pierce Mercurius International (831) 659-5622 http://www.termslink.com/ From mtapley at swri.edu Thu Jan 24 10:30:28 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (PS progress) Message-ID: >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) >Do these tap into the plastic of the case, or into brass inserts, or what? They go into pre-drilled cylindrical studs that extend from the back of the case (the side that doesn't plug into the wall) toward the front. There were matching cylindrical recess barrels from the front that extended toward the back and had holes in their circular bottoms large enough for the screw threads to pass through. Those barrels were what melted. >Are they machine screws, self-stripping screws (OK, self-tapping screws >:-))? If they're machine screws, they're likely to be metric sizes.... Self-stripping :-) which is what I'll therefore replace them with. >Ignoring the ceramics (likely to be for RFI suppression), it would appear >you're describing this circuit : > > >o-----)|| +---------------+------------o +ve output > )||(------>|----+ | > )||( | ===== > )||(--o\o-------)----+ ----- > )||( | | | > )||(------>|----+ +----------+-------------o -ve output >o-----)|| > >A very standard PSU circuit using a 'bi-phase' full wave rectifier. I think that's it. Why did I see a small voltage when I tested it *after* the fuse blew? The - side doesn't connect to *anything* - I'd think it'd float right up to the voltage of the positive side (charging through my VOM meter, if no other way). Or is there some effective resistance through the electrolytic? >Is there room to insert a normal fuseholder (maybe a 20mm one), then you >could use a fuse without pigtails... Hm. Maybe. I actually have a small fuseholder (one of the few parts I have in my box). I'll see whether I can make it fit. It would mount in among caps and diodes with not much room to spare on a small circuit board, though, so I may be stuck with a pigtail version. - Mark From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Thu Jan 24 10:41:38 2002 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Mystical Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That was my strategy for getting a 20th Anniversary MAC.... Still haven't found one at the right price. In the present time however My wife and I are enjoying the cube. It is set up in the living room. All the other machines are in the family room or the garage. George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, George Leo Rachor Jr. wrote: > > > This comes from a person that bought a G4 cube the day they announced > > it would be discontinued. I wanted to insure that we got one for my > > little collection. > > You could have waited several years and got it for the fraction of the > cost, either online or at a thrift store ;) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From csmith at amdocs.com Thu Jan 24 10:59:04 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1A5@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Cameron Kaiser [mailto:spectre@stockholm.ptloma.edu] > > > Now where all the female programer types when you want them? :) > > Very difficult to find. > So what does that make Megan and Allison? :-P @@R@RE!!@!@!@! I guess... Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Jan 24 11:40:29 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E19F@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: The two I've found so far were engaged to be married. Damn them. -- Pat On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ben Franchuk [mailto:bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca] > > > Now where all the female programer types when you want them? :) > > Very difficult to find. > > Chris > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 24 11:05:57 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Apple II boards References: <200201241612.IAA10776@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <002101c1a4f9$642d8000$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 9:12 AM Subject: Re: Apple II boards > > > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 > > > perhaps... > > > > Now, remember -- the fact that C64s are cheap does not make them any less > valuable. ;-) > Perhaps, but the fact that they were cheap when they were on the market means that they were not intended to be "rare" and they probably won't be for some time. There are lots of definitions of "valuable" but I think the most widely accepted one ties "value" to what you can get for it on the open market. C64's are common in the crusher bin behind the thrift stores, so they probably crush more than they sell, even at the $5 price. In fact, Commodore disk drives often sell for more than Commodore computers do. I've never owned or even wanted one, but I find that odd. > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- Death to spammers! http://spam.abuse.net/spam/ ----------------------------- > > From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Jan 24 11:06:55 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: OT: PayPal = payola? Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467551@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Interesting one here... While composing a reply in Outlook 2001 (on a Mac OSX 10.1.2), I wrote 'PayPal'. Since I have the program check spelling before sending :-) it came up and thought I meant to write 'payola' instead of PayPal. Think M$ is trying to say something? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 24 11:52:10 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: PayPal = payola? References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467551@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <001501c1a4ff$dccb20c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'd say it has to do with ducking possible liability on M$' part. If they include PayPal in their spelling dictionary, they'll have to keep up with the market and include every other possible service that uses the internet as well, and you know what a nightmare that can prove to be. Since AOL bought Netscrape, they've done more to kill it than M$ ever did. I'll be glad when it's finally gone, along with AOL, though. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Woyciesjes" To: Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 10:06 AM Subject: OT: PayPal = payola? > Interesting one here... > > While composing a reply in Outlook 2001 (on a Mac OSX 10.1.2), I wrote > 'PayPal'. Since I have the program check spelling before sending :-) it came > up and thought I meant to write 'payola' instead of PayPal. Think M$ is > trying to say something? > > --- David A Woyciesjes > --- C & IS Support Specialist > --- Yale University Press > --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu > --- (203) 432-0953 > --- ICQ # - 905818 > > From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jan 24 11:09:55 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (PS progress) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Mark Tapley wrote: > >Is there room to insert a normal fuseholder (maybe a 20mm one), then you > >could use a fuse without pigtails... > > Hm. Maybe. I actually have a small fuseholder (one of the few parts I have > in my box). I'll see whether I can make it fit. It would mount in among > caps and diodes with not much room to spare on a small circuit board, > though, so I may be stuck with a pigtail version. You might be able to solder a pair of clips directly to the board depending on how much room exists and how the board was designed. I've often replaced pigtail fuses used in PC power supplies with clips and a standard 20mm fuse. They make 2 versions of these clips, IIRC. One has the 2 pins in line with the fuse, the other has the 2 pins on each side of the clip. -Toth From allain at panix.com Thu Jan 24 11:37:32 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:56 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: <005701c1a4e9$d03739e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <01d301c1a4fd$ce0379e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Actually, back in the Apple][ days, the BNC was not commonly > used for video and particularly not for NTSC video. Oops. Our school inherited the cast-off ABC news equipment from the 1960's and it was mix-n-match by function or by manufacturer and 99% of Everything was BNC. Too far, Dick. John A. From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Jan 24 11:54:22 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: Mystical Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) References: Message-ID: <008201c1a500$333e79c0$168c70d8@default> I got my 20th Ann. Mac last year and love it's sound and video playing right out of the box. The CUBE is next on my highend items list. ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Leo Rachor Jr." To: Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 10:41 AM Subject: Re: Mystical Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) > That was my strategy for getting a 20th Anniversary MAC.... Still haven't > found one at the right price. > > In the present time however My wife and I are enjoying the cube. It is > set up in the living room. All the other machines are in the family room > or the garage. > > George Rachor > > > ========================================================= > George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com > Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com > United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX > > On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, George Leo Rachor Jr. wrote: > > > > > This comes from a person that bought a G4 cube the day they announced > > > it would be discontinued. I wanted to insure that we got one for my > > > little collection. > > > > You could have waited several years and got it for the fraction of the > > cost, either online or at a thrift store ;) > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > > > > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jan 24 11:55:39 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <61487.62.148.198.97.1011865931.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: Lawrence LeMay said: > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 > perhaps... monitors! non-current printers From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jan 24 10:23:59 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: OT: PayPal = payola? In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467551@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467551@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <02Jan24.132040est.119088@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >Interesting one here... > >While composing a reply in Outlook 2001 (on a Mac OSX 10.1.2), I wrote >'PayPal'. Since I have the program check spelling before sending :-) it came >up and thought I meant to write 'payola' instead of PayPal. Think M$ is >trying to say something? Nah, if it was something the M$ thought they could exploit, they would have already bought up the company. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 24 12:09:18 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: <005701c1a4e9$d03739e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <01d301c1a4fd$ce0379e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <000901c1a502$3e0c5dc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, I don't know what sort of equipment you were dealing with, but it was well into the '80's before I ever saw a piece of NTSC video equipment with BNC connectors on it. Those BNC's were generally used for 50-ohm equipment and not used with 75 ohm video gear. BNC's were all over the EE labs, but not on the video distribution amplifiers I occasionally saw. I didn't work in the video industry, John, but I did work with computers all the while. Monitors of the time, at least of the NTSC-compatible type, were typically equipped with PL-259 connectors on the rear. The only video monitors I encountered with BNC connectors on them were the high-frequency, then-mono, types, from Motorola, intended for use as "page" monitors. I suppose there may have been BNC's on high-end fixed-frequency displays, even then, but the NTSC gear in the old catalogs, etc, that I've become accustomed to seeing over the years have always used the PL-259's until the 'F' types became more common. Those were the same ones that were on the antenna and not-too-common set-top equipment I first saw in the late '70's, and also what was in use on every monitor in the various lecture rooms at the Colorado School of Mines, Denver University, and Colorado University that I ever saw back then. By the time consumer video equipment became popular, the PL-259, which was also common in the '70's for other 75-ohm applications e.g. antennas and the like, had been replaced by the 'F' types in video hookups, since those were MUCH cheaper. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 10:37 AM Subject: Re: Bell & Howell Apple II update > > Actually, back in the Apple][ days, the BNC was not commonly > > used for video and particularly not for NTSC video. > > Oops. > Our school inherited the cast-off ABC news equipment > from the 1960's and it was mix-n-match by function or by > manufacturer and 99% of Everything was BNC. > Too far, Dick. > > John A. > > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 24 12:15:52 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards References: Message-ID: <002001c1a503$28e0f180$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Careful now! ... Current printers won't work properly with any of the pre-ECP computers of the '70's, will they? Once IBM started fiddling with the Epson version of the Centronics interface, the "old" types were orphaned. My old Ampro won't even talk to a current (post-1985) "Centronics" printer since it doesn't support all the signals that those guys expected to see. I had to disconnect several lines in a cable just to get a late-'80's printer to work at all with the old Ampro Little Board. Current generation monitors won't work with the old NTSC-compatible computers either. You have to have the old-style NTSC monitor, or a TV with a video input. Those old LEEDEX or BALL monitors are really scarce these days. If you want an authentic or even authentic-looking system, you've got to have the right sort of monitor. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 10:55 AM Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards > Lawrence LeMay said: > > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 > > perhaps... > > monitors! > > non-current printers > > From mythtech at Mac.com Thu Jan 24 12:22:20 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: Mystical Ugly Computers (Was: RE: Appropritate comic strip....) Message-ID: > > This comes from a person that bought a G4 cube the day they announced > > it would be discontinued. I wanted to insure that we got one for my > > little collection. > > You could have waited several years and got it for the fraction of the > cost, either online or at a thrift store ;) >From what I have heard about the plastics on the cube... they might not last long enough to make it to the thrift stores. I was under the impression, they were fairly fragile. -chris From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jan 24 12:24:06 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day References: Message-ID: <3C505146.5B79F902@jetnet.ab.ca> Pat Finnegan wrote: > > The two I've found so far were engaged to be married. Damn them. Hopefully not to each other. :) -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Jan 24 12:55:42 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: <3C505146.5B79F902@jetnet.ab.ca> from "Ben Franchuk" at Jan 24, 02 11:24:06 am Message-ID: <200201241855.NAA15929@wordstock.com> > > Pat Finnegan wrote: > > > > The two I've found so far were engaged to be married. Damn them. > Hopefully not to each other. :) > hmmm... Two birds killed with one stone? Bryan From donm at cts.com Thu Jan 24 14:07:20 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: <200201241623.IAA12594@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > Now where all the female programer types when you want them? :) > > > > Very difficult to find. > > So what does that make Megan and Allison? :-P As scarce as they have been on this list lately, well, "Very difficult to find." B-} - don > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- Proponents of other opinions will be merrily beaten to a bloody pulp. ------ > From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jan 24 12:31:33 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: Mastersport 386SX In-Reply-To: <3C4FF169.FCC77DAC@mich.com> Message-ID: > > Does anyone have the wart for this Zenith Data Systems laptop? On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Dave Mabry wrote: > Sorry to be dense, but what is a "wart" in this context? It's short for "wall-wart". Probably silicon valley slang. Other names: Power supply - inaccurate, since it is typically NOT the complete power supply Transformer or Wall Transformer - inaccurate, since it is ususally NOT just a transformer AC Adapter or DC Adapter - still not very clear what it is. It is an object that connects between the line voltage and the device. It sometimes has a cord on each end, but sometimes hangs on the outlet (hence "wall wart"). It is most often black or beige, although there is no particular reason for it to be (watch for "MAJOR INNOVATION" when Apple starts making tangerine colored ones). It has line voltage input, and output that is usually low voltage AC (such as 9VAC for modem), or low voltage DC. Any flea market, swap meet, or rummage sale will have hundreds of them, that produce every possible voltage except the one that you need. Zip drives use one that is 5 VDC. Do they really need 5? From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Jan 24 13:12:35 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: Mastersport 386SX In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Zip drives use one that is 5 VDC. Do they really need 5? IIRC, the Zip-Drive 'wall wart' is actually a complete regulated power supply. So to operate the logic, it DOES need to be 5VDC. -- Pat From dan at ekoan.com Thu Jan 24 14:29:26 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: Mastersport 386SX In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020124152116.0397c610@enigma> At 02:12 PM 1/24/02 -0500, you wrote: >On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > Zip drives use one that is 5 VDC. Do they really need 5? > >IIRC, the Zip-Drive 'wall wart' is actually a complete regulated power >supply. So to operate the logic, it DOES need to be 5VDC. All of this is off-topic, but I've got three different types of Iomega ZIP drive "wall warts" here (all voltages unloaded, measured from my Fluke 8020A): 57DR-5-1500(A) outputs 5.21 volts DC 48DR-5-1000 outputs 5.11 VDC 91-56403 outputs 5.15 VDC Much closer to spec than most wall warts. Cheers, Dan From dmabry at mich.com Thu Jan 24 14:56:06 2002 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: Mastersport 386SX References: Message-ID: <3C5074E6.883AFD8E@mich.com> That's funny. I've never heard it referred to as a "wart" or "wall wart" but I like that characterization. I used to have the computer he was referring to in the original post, a Zenith MastersPort SX and it's AC adapter was an inline variety. Cords on both ends. I never would have guessed it being called a wart. Thanks. "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > > Does anyone have the wart for this Zenith Data Systems laptop? > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Dave Mabry wrote: > > Sorry to be dense, but what is a "wart" in this context? > > It's short for "wall-wart". Probably silicon valley slang. > Other names: > Power supply - inaccurate, since it is typically NOT the complete power > supply > Transformer or Wall Transformer - inaccurate, since it is ususally NOT > just a transformer > AC Adapter or DC Adapter - still not very clear what it is. > > It is an object that connects between the line voltage and the device. It > sometimes has a cord on each end, but sometimes hangs on the outlet (hence > "wall wart"). It is most often black or beige, although there is no > particular reason for it to be (watch for "MAJOR INNOVATION" when Apple > starts making tangerine colored ones). It has line voltage input, and > output that is usually low voltage AC (such as 9VAC for modem), or low > voltage DC. > > Any flea market, swap meet, or rummage sale will have hundreds of them, > that produce every possible voltage except the one that you need. > Zip drives use one that is 5 VDC. Do they really need 5? -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 24 15:52:13 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: Wall Wart (was Re: Mastersport 386SX) In-Reply-To: <3C5074E6.883AFD8E@mich.com> Message-ID: <20020124215213.10850.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> --- Dave Mabry wrote: > That's funny. I've never heard it referred to as a "wart" or "wall > wart" but I like that characterization. I think now you can see the imagery - little black bumps all over the wall, clustered around AC outlets... > I used to have the computer he was referring to in the original post, a > Zenith MastersPort SX and it's AC adapter was an inline variety. Cords > on both ends. I never would have guessed it being called a wart. I think that's an extended use of the metaphor - calling any external transformer a "wall wart", whether it hangs from the wall or has a short power cord. Personally, I reserve the term only for the type that fastens up against the wall. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From lemay at cs.umn.edu Thu Jan 24 14:28:42 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <3C4F59A0.26053.524063E@localhost> Message-ID: <200201242028.OAA19049@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Someone has one on ebay right now: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1326232741 Better hurry, the bidding is already up to $1.25 ! -Lawrence LeMay > I guess you don't follow Epay very much. Since the A-2s have started to > become scarce, II+'s have become a rising commodity. I'd be only very > happy to take any you get for that price off your hands and give you double > that. A black Bell and Howell would fetch well over a $100 even with the > downturn in the economy. > > Lawrence > > > > > Thats starting to sound a bit like white-coat syndrome. These computers > > are not rare artifacts to be hidden away behind glass walls, only to be > > touched by the neophites in white lab coats, you know. Go ahead and > > experiment, heck throw the completely wrong hardware in and cause a > > major short circuit! And in so doing, know that you can always get another > > apple ][+ or 3 for about $5 (if not for free, heaven knows i keep getting > > offered the things...) > > > > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 perhaps... > > > > -Lawrence LeMay > > > > Reply to: > lgwalker@mts.net > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 24 15:59:35 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <004501c1a4e9$1d5db420$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20020124215935.23017.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > An Apple IIe is not uncommonly priced at $5 around here (I just bought > one that had a couple of drives bundled with it for $8, though all I > wanted was the PSU) . That sounds right... I'm about to go get a free one (rescue) this week, in town, thankfully. > A IIc is not uncommon at that price either. I've seen IIcs for a little more... the thrift stores here tend to unbundle the PSU and the computer - and mark them for the same price, sometimes. ISTR seeing a IIc for $5 and its PSU for $8 last year. At the "top" of the spectrum, I got a IIc+ (4MHz CPU, modern serial connectors (not like a IIc) and 3.5" internal drive) with monitor, two imagewriters, an external 5.25" drive and manuals for $15 at a Hamfest a couple of seasons ago. I didn't think that was out of line. It also didn't sell until I got to that building at 13:00, so nobody there thought it was the deal of the century, either. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jan 24 12:41:29 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards References: Message-ID: <3C505559.4EF96CD6@jetnet.ab.ca> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > Lawrence LeMay said: > > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 > > perhaps... > > monitors! > > non-current printers Win-modems and win-printers. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jan 24 13:05:56 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <3C505559.4EF96CD6@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > > Lawrence LeMay said: > > > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 > > > perhaps... > > > > monitors! > > > > non-current printers > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > Win-modems and win-printers. I meant having the least monetary value. You're talking about being TRULY worthless. From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 24 12:45:37 2002 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards References: Message-ID: <3C505651.DB2CE87@verizon.net> ISA stuff. "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > Lawrence LeMay said: > > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 > > perhaps... > > monitors! > > non-current printers From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jan 24 12:47:23 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <002001c1a503$28e0f180$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: > > > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 > > > perhaps... > > monitors! > > non-current printers On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Careful now! ... Current printers won't work properly with any of the pre-ECP > . . . > Current generation monitors won't work with the old NTSC-compatible computers When I closed up my office, I could find people who wanted everything else, from old magazines and newspapers, books, files of clippings, internal documents, schematics, even marketing materials from defunct companies, furniture, empty binders with company names on the spines, computers, unidentifiable circuit boards, 8 inch drives, Syquest drives, modems, weird cables, T shirts, trade show freebie crap, . . . I had a very difficult time getting anybody to take FREE monitors and FREE printers. The only way that I could get anybody to take them was to start boxing them up with S100 cards, etc. and making unbreakable package deals. From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jan 24 12:50:17 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards References: Message-ID: <3C505769.3A6D4AD9@internet1.net> I could see a ][+ being valuable. I've never seen one, for example. //e's and //gs's show up a Goodwill from time to time, but I've never seen a ][+ anywhere. If I were big into Apple hardware, I'd be willing to pay more for one. Since I started on a //e I'm quite happy with that, However. Monitors worth less..... I wish someone would tell that to my local Goodwill. Every time they get a decent one, they want megabucks for it! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > Lawrence LeMay said: > > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 > > perhaps... > > monitors! > > non-current printers From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Jan 24 12:51:53 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <002001c1a503$28e0f180$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jan 24, 02 11:15:52 am Message-ID: <200201241851.NAA12899@wordstock.com> > > Careful now! ... Current printers won't work properly with any of the pre-ECP > computers of the '70's, will they? Once IBM started fiddling with the Epson > version of the Centronics interface, the "old" types were orphaned. My old > Ampro won't even talk to a current (post-1985) "Centronics" printer since it > doesn't support all the signals that those guys expected to see. I had to > disconnect several lines in a cable just to get a late-'80's printer to work > at all with the old Ampro Little Board. Are there any companies out there still making dot-matrix tractor-feed printers? > > Current generation monitors won't work with the old NTSC-compatible computers > either. You have to have the old-style NTSC monitor, or a TV with a video > input. Those old LEEDEX or BALL monitors are really scarce these days. If > you want an authentic or even authentic-looking system, you've got to have the > right sort of monitor. Ha! My 1902a monitor attached to my C128 just got a little more valuable! ;) Is it just me or is the screen not as clear on the 1902a (when the 128 is in 64 mode) as I remember my 64 hooked up to a 1702? Cheers, Bryan > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 10:55 AM > Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards > > > > Lawrence LeMay said: > > > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 > > > perhaps... > > > > monitors! > > > > non-current printers > > > > > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jan 24 12:21:27 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <200201241851.NAA12899@wordstock.com> References: <200201241851.NAA12899@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <02Jan24.143513est.119062@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >Are there any companies out there still making dot-matrix tractor-feed >printers? There must be since plenty of companies, including Canon, still use them for printing invoices on multipart carbonless paper. Wasn't Epson still making inexpensive dot-matrix printers up until fairly recently? Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 24 15:16:52 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <200201241851.NAA12899@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Bryan Pope wrote: > Are there any companies out there still making dot-matrix tractor-feed > printers? Doesn't Okidata still build them? I'm pretty sure they still make replacement parts. Lots of businesses still use them for dup-trip-licate forms. Notably pawnshops. Every hock shop in this county has 2 or 3 Okidata 320 printers. Doc From thilo.schmidt at unix-ag.org Thu Jan 24 14:05:25 2002 From: thilo.schmidt at unix-ag.org (thilo.schmidt@unix-ag.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards Message-ID: Hi, On 24-Jan-2002 Bryan Pope wrote: > Are there any companies out there still making dot-matrix tractor-feed > printers? Look at http://www.psi-si.de I've seen some of their printers in action, quite impressive ;-) bye -- Sanity is the trademark of a weak mind. -- Mark Harrold From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Jan 24 14:23:06 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <200201241851.NAA12899@wordstock.com> References: <002001c1a503$28e0f180$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020124141910.023147c0@pc> At 01:51 PM 1/24/2002 -0500, Bryan Pope wrote: >Are there any companies out there still making dot-matrix tractor-feed >printers? There are businesses who still insist on using them to print fan-fold multi-part forms and checks. Just now there's a message on my answering machine from a business who needs a replacement for the last (used) one I found for them. I know there are laser-friendly check forms, and anyone printing multiple forms could just as easily print N copies, but to get that nifty colored paper "the blue ones go to accounting" feature, you'd need a laser printer and software with the ability to pull colored paper from separate trays. Once you start digging this deep, though, you might start asking why so many businesses still rely on paper, and that may cause you to question deeply-held beliefs such as that computers are or are not trustworthy for doing business. - John From jss at subatomix.com Thu Jan 24 15:34:25 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020124153224.D7647-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Lawrence LeMay said: > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 > perhaps... Old printer ribbons. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 24 16:06:55 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: Dot matrix printer ribbons (was Re: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards) In-Reply-To: <20020124153224.D7647-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20020124220655.97770.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > Lawrence LeMay said: > > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 > > perhaps... > > Old printer ribbons. I have a box of those - strangely enough for the AppleII and the C-64 - they are really NOS, but _I've_ had them for 10 years. I have no idea if the ink still contains enough solvent to transfer, but at least the cloth is unused. If anyone is looking for vintage 1988 dot matrix ribbons for things like the Imagewriter and/or CBM printers, let me know and I'll dig through the box to see what models are represented. I figure a buck each plus shipping ought to provide enough motivation to go digging. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From csmith at amdocs.com Thu Jan 24 16:14:21 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1B3@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeffrey S. Sharp [mailto:jss@subatomix.com] > Lawrence LeMay said: > > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 > > perhaps... > Old printer ribbons. The United States government. :) (Ok, that was off topic) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From RCini at congressfinancial.com Thu Jan 24 12:50:05 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: QFP soldering Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E587A1B5@MAIL10> Hello, all: I am finally getting around to building the P112 Z180-based SBC from Dave Brooks (I got one of his last unpopulated boards). It has two 100-pin QFP chips (the Z180 and an SMC Super I/O chip), so, I bought the blade-like SMD soldering iron tip for my iron. So, here's the stupid question...how do I solder these things? Do I hold the iron parallel or perpendicular to the package leads? The board is pre-tinned, but I should I also tin the QFP leads? Any help appreciated. Rich From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Thu Jan 24 13:53:45 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: QFP soldering Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146DFF@BUSH02> Richard Cini wrote... So, here's the stupid question...how do I solder these things? Do I hold the iron parallel or perpendicular to the package leads? The board is pre-tinned, but I should I also tin the QFP leads? Neither. The best way to home solder these things is to use solder paste and a toaster oven, there's an article on www.seattlerobotics.org on how to do this. If you must use a soldering iron use a large bit (4.5 to 6 mm) and run along the edge of the tinned section, not quite touching the pins, and allow the solder to wick into the joints. Don't worry about solder bridges, these can be removed later with solder wick and a good flux. If you make a complete mess of it remove the chip using a hot air gun then clean the board with solder wick removing any left over flux with solvent and try again. Also use a soldering iron of at least 45W with a temperature controlled bit. The easiest way to practice is with the chips on scrap PC motherboards ... see they do have a use 8^)= Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 24 13:58:00 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: QFP soldering References: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E587A1B5@MAIL10> Message-ID: <003901c1a511$6d613a00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> What may be of help is to take a useless (broken) QFP of the same size/shape/pin-pitch, and lay it on the board, which I presume has no solder mask, and paint over the pins with clear nail polish. Once that's done, you blow on the stuff until it no longer flows, then remove the QFP before the nail polish dries. you then wait for the nail polish to dry. Once that's done, you put the desired QFP in place and apply solder flux, then, with a small, hot tip, solder the corner pins in place so the thing doesn't move around, and then go back and solder the remaining pins, applying solder as needed, but sparingly, and, after the whole thing's in place, put a solder wick on top of each row of contacts, and wick up the excess solder. It's not perfect, but it works pretty well and avoids those annoying solder bridges. Try to keep the temperature pretty low, but high enough that the solder flows readily. For that purpose, I'd use a narrow and fine-pointed tip that can easily fit on a single pin. It's no trouble geting more than one pin, but often it's necessary to hit just one, and that's what I'd try first. Don't do ANYTHING to the leads on the QFP! They're already tinned. A little liquid flux may help, if applied on top of the pins once theyre in place, though. I'm going to have to buy stronger reading glasses before the next time I do this. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cini, Richard" To: "'ClassCompList'" Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 11:50 AM Subject: QFP soldering > Hello, all: > > I am finally getting around to building the P112 Z180-based SBC from > Dave Brooks (I got one of his last unpopulated boards). It has two 100-pin > QFP chips (the Z180 and an SMC Super I/O chip), so, I bought the blade-like > SMD soldering iron tip for my iron. > > So, here's the stupid question...how do I solder these things? Do I > hold the iron parallel or perpendicular to the package leads? The board is > pre-tinned, but I should I also tin the QFP leads? > > Any help appreciated. > > Rich > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 24 12:59:09 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: PayPal = payola? In-Reply-To: <001501c1a4ff$dccb20c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Since AOL bought Netscrape, they've done more to kill it than M$ ever did. > I'll be glad when it's finally gone, along with AOL, though. AMEN! I dunno about the Windows version, but NS 6 for Linux is a buggy farce of a resource hog. Netscape was one of the front runners in developing a Linux port of their mainstream application, and the Linux port was always at least as stable as the Windows one. If that's still true, Netscape is headed for the dumper. The quality & stability of the Netscape suite has declined almost since the day AOL bought 'em. "More features! Screw debugging!" I run Mozilla in Linux, and Opera (yes, I even paid for it) in Windows. The two MacOS machines run NS 3.... Doc > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Woyciesjes" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 10:06 AM > Subject: OT: PayPal = payola? > > > > Interesting one here... > > > > While composing a reply in Outlook 2001 (on a Mac OSX 10.1.2), I wrote > > 'PayPal'. Since I have the program check spelling before sending :-) it came > > up and thought I meant to write 'payola' instead of PayPal. Think M$ is > > trying to say something? > > > > --- David A Woyciesjes > > --- C & IS Support Specialist > > --- Yale University Press > > --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu > > --- (203) 432-0953 > > --- ICQ # - 905818 > > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 24 14:04:18 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) References: Message-ID: <005501c1a512$4e525ee0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I wish my browsing were as fast as the other things I do under Windows! Nearly anything is over before I get my finger off the key. Note that I said key, and not mouse button. Unfortunately, the Windows browser doesn't work as well with keys as the rest of the GUI. One CAN learn to use the keyboard, though. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Owen Robertson" To: Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 12:21 PM Subject: Re: PayPal = payola? > on 1/24/02 12:59 PM, Doc at doc@mdrconsult.com wrote: > > > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > >> Since AOL bought Netscrape, they've done more to kill it than M$ ever did. > >> I'll be glad when it's finally gone, along with AOL, though. > > > > AMEN! I dunno about the Windows version, but NS 6 for Linux is a > > buggy farce of a resource hog. Netscape was one of the front runners in > > developing a Linux port of their mainstream application, and the Linux > > port was always at least as stable as the Windows one. If that's still > > true, Netscape is headed for the dumper. The quality & stability of the > > Netscape suite has declined almost since the day AOL bought 'em. "More > > features! Screw debugging!" > > I run Mozilla in Linux, and Opera (yes, I even paid for it) in > > Windows. The two MacOS machines run NS 3.... > > > > Doc > > > > Netscape 6 for Mac OS X is horrible. I hate the way it looks and acts, it's > unstable, slow... Just picture Windows as a browser and you'll get the idea. > > From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Jan 24 14:46:18 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <005501c1a512$4e525ee0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020124154618.0147b728@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Richard Erlacher may have mentioned these words: >I wish my browsing were as fast as the other things I do under Windows! >Nearly anything is over before I get my finger off the key. Note that >I said key, and not mouse button. Unfortunately, the Windows browser doesn't >work as well with keys as the rest of the GUI. One CAN learn to use the >keyboard, though. Hell, *everything* I do is fast -- Winders & Linux! [[ahem... I have a dual-processor Athlon MP 1600+ -- dual SCSI, dual LAN, etc... so I realize this isn't a fair fight... ;-) ]] [[ also see comments below from a different poster(s) ]] >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Owen Robertson" >To: >Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 12:21 PM >Subject: Re: PayPal = payola? > > >> on 1/24/02 12:59 PM, Doc at doc@mdrconsult.com wrote: >> >> > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: >> > >> >> Since AOL bought Netscrape, they've done more to kill it than M$ ever >did. Amen. Which is too bad, because IMNSHO, Netscape always was better... >> >> I'll be glad when it's finally gone, along with AOL, though. >> > >> > AMEN! I dunno about the Windows version, but NS 6 for Linux is a >> > buggy farce of a resource hog. Netscape was one of the front runners in >> > developing a Linux port of their mainstream application, and the Linux >> > port was always at least as stable as the Windows one. If that's still >> > true, Netscape is headed for the dumper. The quality & stability of the >> > Netscape suite has declined almost since the day AOL bought 'em. "More >> > features! Screw debugging!" Hmmm... dunno about the Mac version, but they've *really* improved the Winders & Linux versions - 6.0 *just* *plain* *sucked* - and not just any sucked - it sucked canal water rectally... ;-) It was slower than molasses in January, as well... 6.1 didn't add a single feature - all they did is clean up bugs & speed it up. 6.2 cleaned up some more, but they still had a few, hence 6.21. I've only found one bug in 6.21, and that's trying to get rid of that idiot tab feature in the mail program sometimes locked the application. After 3 or 4 tries, I was successful, and it's not crashed since. I usually keep it running for a week at a time, and it usually crashes once or twice a month, much less than Exploder 5.5 and seems to be faster as well, on Win2k. [At work, I have a Celery 450] The linux port is just as stable, and a lot of webpages (like my Yahoo Mail) look better on the new Netscape vs. IE 5.x. I don't even have Netscape 4.x installed anymore... That's how stable 6.21 is! As an install, Netscape 6.x is still smaller than IE6 as well, and IE is still half-built-in to Winders... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 24 13:05:10 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: I'm Baack! Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020124140510.007cbb70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I guess I only thought I'd get out of this hobby. Last week I got this in the mail. This is from a deal that I've had working for over a year. I've got it running and it works nice! So has any body got any MDS manuals, SW or parts that they'd like to part with? Joe From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 24 14:00:29 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: I'm Baack! References: <3.0.6.32.20020124140510.007cbb70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <004901c1a511$c6325920$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> What? Did you get a divorce? My S.O. made me put away my toys, and now I can't find a thing ... Glad you're alive, well, and at it again! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 12:05 PM Subject: I'm Baack! > I guess I only thought I'd get out of this hobby. Last week I got this > in the mail. This is from > a deal that I've had working for over a year. I've got it running and it > works nice! > > So has any body got any MDS manuals, SW or parts that they'd like to part > with? > > Joe > > From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Jan 24 13:05:49 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: Friday's score... [kinda long?] Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467562@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Well, for those curious, and those whom I said I would inform, here is a list of (100lbs!) Commodore 128 and Atari 800 goodies I got courtesy of Michael Brodt... (This list is for my own inventory purpose, as much as your entertainment.) Commodore 128 --- - 1571 floppy drive - Wico Command Control bat handle joystick - TV connector/adaptor. Atari 800 --- (there's " #043 " rubber-stamped on the model sticker, above the printed No. 472297 Any ideas? Also a sticker with a handwritten "AW458710 1/28") - Atari810 floppy drive - 4 joysticks (one missing the 'stick'. Hey, the Commodore joystick will work on this, won't it?)You know, it would be real easy to turn the busted one into a gamepad, wouldn't it? - Microbits Peripheral Products Parallel Printer interface And software/books/magazines are: (game names are writen exactly as seen on the label. Maybe Michael or someone can say what the misspellings are supposed to be...) *** C=128 *** (this list coming soon...) *** Atari 800 *** ---originals s/w diskettes--- Shamus Case II No:4705 Canyon Climber The Goonies (it has C=64 version on side 2!) with hints... Drelbs No:101210 Alternate Reality: The Dungeon Alternate Reality: The City Atari 810 Master Diskette II Atari 400/800 BASIC cartridge CXL 4002 (priced at $59.95!) Karateka The Incredible Laboratory Realm Of Impossibility Cyclod ---copies--- Starwars Frogger Pogoman Caverns Actionquest (?) Pacman Krazy Defender Galaxian Raiders Miscom (?) Speedway Poype (misspelling on label?) Joust Donkey Kong Nautilis Caverns 2 Montezuma Snokie Sargon Congo Spy Hunter Tutunkahmun Archon Zepplin Slime Mario Brothers Dig Dug Cyclod Spy Huntrcom (?) Spy Sutle (?) War Games Decathlon Starfighter PitFall II Legion Koalapad Jumpman Centioede Wiz Of War Koalapad MTV Zaxxon Zork I (on Cyclod disk-- DigDug Spyhuntrcom Spshutle War Games Decathlon StarFighter PitFall II Legion AtariWriter Krazy Defender Galaxian Raiders Miscom Anticks Centipede --- books --- The Video Master's Guide To Defender -(arcade version) Basic Fun With Graphics The Atari Way AD&D Eye Of The Beholder Clue Book Free Software For your Atari Dr. C Wacko's Miracle Guide To Designing And Programming Your Own Atari Computer Arcade Games Atari Basic - A Self Teaching Guide Atari Games And Recreations Atari Basic Quick Reference Guide Your First Atari Program Atari Sound And Graphics - A Self Teaching Guide Owner's Guide for the 800 and 810 Atari 810 Disk Drive - Introduction To he Disk Operating System Computers For Kids - Atari Edition AtariWriter manual Star Raiders manual Review - A Catalog Of Atari Learning Systems - Fall 83, Vol 1, Issue 1 Antic - The Atari Resource - Feb 1988 Vol 6, #10 Analog Computing - Sep 1987, #57 Atari Explorer - Feb 1985 Atari Connection - The Home Computer Magazine - Summer 1983 Atari Connection - Winter 1984 Atari Connection - Spring 1984 Atari Connection - Summer 1984 APX - Atari Program Exchange Product Catalog - Summer 1983 APX - Fall 1983 Home Applications And Games For The Atari Home Computers Atari 400/800 Basic Reference Manual Atari 400/800 Disk Operating System II Reference Manual --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Jan 24 13:33:40 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: Friday's score... [kinda long?] In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467562@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> from "David Woyciesjes" at Jan 24, 02 02:05:49 pm Message-ID: <200201241933.OAA23813@wordstock.com> And thusly David Woyciesjes spake: > > - 4 joysticks (one missing the 'stick'. Hey, the Commodore joystick will > work on this, won't it?)You know, it would be real easy to turn the busted Yes Commodore joysticks will work perfectly on any Atari system... (But I believe not the 5200 and 7800) > Wiz Of War I wonder if this is "Wiz Wor"? Lots of nice games!! (Esp. the Alternate Reality series....) Cheers, Bryan From CLeyson at aol.com Thu Jan 24 13:55:27 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: WTH is this? Message-ID: <16a.7abc2e8.2981c0af@aol.com> Looks like an Analog Devices measurement card of some sort. Try asking Analog Devices: URL www.analog.com or mailto: wwwcustomer.service@analog.com. Chris From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 24 14:09:12 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: WTH is this? References: <3.0.6.32.20020124141051.007cfe10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <006901c1a512$fe0f6260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It looks like an Analog input board, but the ADC may be missing, judging from the location of the empty socket. The red or orange (maybe they're green ... I'm "chromatically challenged") devices appear to be resistor arrays. There's a number on that board, and there's a name, i.e. Analog Devices. I'd try to chase that down with them, if possible. I've seen that shape of board before, but can't place it. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 12:10 PM Subject: WTH is this? > Does anyone have any idea what this card is for? > When I picked it up I > thought it was a Multibus card but a closer look reveals that it's (1) too > tall, (2) too narrow, (3) The large connector at the bottom has 100 > contacts instead of 86, (4) the narrow connector has 40 pins instead of 60 > and it sticks down too far. > > Any ideas? > > Joe > > From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Jan 24 14:56:21 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: WTH is this? In-Reply-To: <006901c1a512$fe0f6260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > It looks like an Analog input board, but the ADC may be missing, judging from > the location of the empty socket. The red or orange (maybe they're green ... > I'm "chromatically challenged") devices appear to be resistor arrays. There's Actually, considering they look 'tall' and are labeled as K1, K11, etc, I'd expect those to be relays. Considering the relays and the size of the heatsinks on those TO-202/TO-220 looking devices, I'd anticipate the board is some sort of control module. > a number on that board, and there's a name, i.e. Analog Devices. I'd try to > chase that down with them, if possible. > > I've seen that shape of board before, but can't place it. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 12:10 PM > Subject: WTH is this? > > > > Does anyone have any idea what this card is for? > > When I picked it up I > > thought it was a Multibus card but a closer look reveals that it's (1) too > > tall, (2) too narrow, (3) The large connector at the bottom has 100 > > contacts instead of 86, (4) the narrow connector has 40 pins instead of 60 > > and it sticks down too far. > > > > Any ideas? > > > > Joe > > > > > From rhblakeman at kih.net Thu Jan 24 14:42:30 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: WTH is this? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020124141051.007cfe10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: You can try goingt to www.analog.com and go to the tech support site, select obsolete products (I'm assuming this is obsolete) and click the "contact technical support" and ask them what model LTS-1201, partnumber 01-7000600 is and if they have any ratholed data they could fax/email to you. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 1:11 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: WTH is this? Does anyone have any idea what this card is for? When I picked it up I thought it was a Multibus card but a closer look reveals that it's (1) too tall, (2) too narrow, (3) The large connector at the bottom has 100 contacts instead of 86, (4) the narrow connector has 40 pins instead of 60 and it sticks down too far. Any ideas? Joe From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jan 24 16:30:09 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: Mastersport 386SX In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020124152116.0397c610@enigma> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Dan Veeneman wrote: > At 02:12 PM 1/24/02 -0500, you wrote: > >On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > > > Zip drives use one that is 5 VDC. Do they really need 5? > > > >IIRC, the Zip-Drive 'wall wart' is actually a complete regulated power > >supply. So to operate the logic, it DOES need to be 5VDC. > > All of this is off-topic, but I've got three different types of Iomega > ZIP drive "wall warts" here (all voltages unloaded, measured from > my Fluke 8020A): > > 57DR-5-1500(A) outputs 5.21 volts DC > 48DR-5-1000 outputs 5.11 VDC > 91-56403 outputs 5.15 VDC > > Much closer to spec than most wall warts. This is because these are true power supplies and not a wall-wart. Some of the early zip drive power supplies are linear and use a standard LM7805. These look like wall-warts since they still have a large transformer in them. The later generation power supplies are very small switching power supplies. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jan 24 16:37:51 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: Wall Wart (was Re: Mastersport 386SX) In-Reply-To: <20020124215213.10850.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Dave Mabry wrote: > > > I used to have the computer he was referring to in the original post, a > > Zenith MastersPort SX and it's AC adapter was an inline variety. Cords > > on both ends. I never would have guessed it being called a wart. > > I think that's an extended use of the metaphor - calling any external > transformer a "wall wart", whether it hangs from the wall or has a > short power cord. Personally, I reserve the term only for the type > that fastens up against the wall. I tend to refer to the ones that have power cords and sit on the floor as bricks. -Toth From mythtech at Mac.com Thu Jan 24 13:17:26 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update Message-ID: >I didn't work in the video industry, John, but I did work with computers all >the while. Monitors of the time, at least of the NTSC-compatible type, were >typically equipped with PL-259 connectors on the rear. The only video >monitors I encountered with BNC connectors on them were the high-frequency, >then-mono, types, from Motorola, intended for use as "page" monitors. I think it might have had more to do with what kind of single was being sent. (at least in the video industry) My old UMatic decks from the 70s have either "UHF" connectors (PL-259), or F connectors (depending on age) for all the modulated signals (connects to a TV shows on either channel 3/4 or 6), but all the ones that have composite signals (non-modulated, needs a "line in") have either BNC or RCA (depending on quality, doesn't seem to have bearing on age... higher quality decks have the BNC for video, RCA for audio, and lower quality have the RCA for video and audio). I don't think I have ever seen a "UHF" (PL-259) or F connector on a non modulated composite signal (not saying they don't exist, just I have never seen them), same with I don't think I have ever seen a BNC or RCA on a modulated signal. -chris From dan at ekoan.com Thu Jan 24 13:38:03 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: <000901c1a502$3e0c5dc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <005701c1a4e9$d03739e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <01d301c1a4fd$ce0379e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020124142155.038eddf0@enigma> At 11:09 AM 1/24/02 -0700, Dick wrote: >Well, I don't know what sort of equipment you were dealing with, but it was >well into the '80's before I ever saw a piece of NTSC video equipment with BNC >connectors on it. > >Those BNC's were generally used for 50-ohm equipment and not used with 75 ohm >video gear. BNC's were all over the EE labs, but not on the video >distribution amplifiers I occasionally saw. > >I didn't work in the video industry, John, but I did work with computers all >the while. I may be sorry for getting into this conversation, but I can't let this one slide. I did work in the (satellite) video industry in the early 1980's, and BNC connectors were all over the place, for both NTSC and PAL. Everything from tape decks to genlocks to headends used them, and had for quite a while. Video monitors from that period were almost always equipped with BNC, unless you tried to use a converted consumer television receiver. > Monitors of the time, at least of the NTSC-compatible type, were >typically equipped with PL-259 connectors on the rear. Not true, at least in the video industry. >By the time consumer video equipment became popular, the PL-259, which was >also common in the '70's for other 75-ohm applications e.g. antennas and the >like, had been replaced by the 'F' types in video hookups, since those were >MUCH cheaper. The PL-259 was in use primarily for carrying VHF and UHF signals, not baseband video. F-type connectors appeared on consumer-grade equipment where the performance loss was deemed acceptable, and yes, cost was a factor, not just for the connector but for the labor to assemble it properly. As I said, I may be sorry to have chimed in on this nearly off-topic conversation, but when I see blanket statements being made that are obviously incorrect I have a hard time remaining silent. Cheers, Dan From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Jan 24 14:26:12 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:57 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020124142155.038eddf0@enigma> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Dan Veeneman wrote: > At 11:09 AM 1/24/02 -0700, Dick wrote: > > Monitors of the time, at least of the NTSC-compatible type, were > >typically equipped with PL-259 connectors on the rear. > > Not true, at least in the video industry. > When I worked for our city's 'Public Access' cable station, we had numerous pieces of equipemnt left over from the 70s that had UHF (PL-259) connectors used for baseband video. I rember them being on monitors and UMatic decks that we had laying around (and they were probably on a few other things I never got to see). I still have some UHF->BNC adaptors laying around from when I used to play with that stuff. -- Pat From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Thu Jan 24 14:40:20 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:58 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E00@BUSH02> > Monitors of the time, at least of the NTSC-compatible > type, were typically equipped with PL-259 connectors > on the rear. Not true, at least in the video industry. >By the time consumer video equipment became popular, > the PL-259, which was also common in the '70's for other > 75-ohm applications e.g. antennas and the like, had been > replaced by the 'F' types in video hookups, since those > were MUCH cheaper. The PL-259 was in use primarily for carrying VHF and UHF signals, not baseband video. The PL259/SO259 was originally designed in the 1940's to carry the then high resolution 3.5MHz 405 line baseband video signal. They remained as the connector of choice, at least in europe, until the 70's when the more compact BNC took over. Patch pannels were, and are still, mostly Musa as they are easy to (un)plug even when packed closely. As I said, I may be sorry to have chimed in on this nearly off-topic conversation, but when I see blanket statements being made that are obviously incorrect I have a hard time remaining silent. Ah, ok. 8^)= Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From dan at ekoan.com Thu Jan 24 15:30:11 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:58 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E00@BUSH02> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020124161100.0475f7e0@enigma> At 08:40 PM 1/24/02 +0000, you wrote: > > Monitors of the time, at least of the NTSC-compatible > > type, were typically equipped with PL-259 connectors > > on the rear. > > Not true, at least in the video industry. Sorry, to keep the context I should have said "...the broadcast video industry of the Apple ][ era in North America." > >By the time consumer video equipment became popular, > > the PL-259, which was also common in the '70's for other > > 75-ohm applications e.g. antennas and the like, had been > > replaced by the 'F' types in video hookups, since those > > were MUCH cheaper. > > The PL-259 was in use primarily for carrying VHF and UHF > signals, not baseband video. > >The PL259/SO259 was originally designed in the 1940's to carry >the then high resolution 3.5MHz 405 line baseband video signal. Do you have a reference for this? My radio books from that era discuss the development of this type of connector in relation to carrying modulated voice signals. >They remained as the connector of choice, at least in europe, until >the 70's when the more compact BNC took over. Patch pannels >were, and are still, mostly Musa as they are easy to (un)plug >even when packed closely. At the time, the broadcast equipment I dealt with in the United States and Canada were almost exclusively BNC, which is what our products were designed for. I can't speak for Europe. I've seen a lot of video gear with a lot of different connectors and I have no doubt that video monitors of varying vintage can be found with nearly any type of connector you can imagine. My objection was Dick's blanket assertion regarding BNC connectors in the video industry. During the time period in question, BNC was the standard for baseband and composite video and PL-259 was almost exclusively for the carriage of RF in modern, well-funded broadcast video operations. Cheers, Dan From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Jan 24 13:22:05 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:58 2005 Subject: Looking for a boot disk for OS/9 for a CoCo 3 In-Reply-To: <3C4F0FE0.87128EDB@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3C4F1E3C.CD9EEFFF@verizon.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020124142205.0147b728@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Ben Franchuk may have mentioned these words: >Eric Chomko wrote: >> >> Checked on eBay, none available. Anyone have such a thing? Original >> preferred but will accept >> a permanent offsite backup as well. Let me know how much you want for >> it. >> >> TIA, >> Eric > >Are you looking for level 1 OS/9 or level 2 OS/9? I would think he'd want OS/9 Level 2 - it was much more capable especially WRT the extra video hardware & GIME in the CoCo3. >I think level 1 OS/9 for the coco 2 will work, >but its been years since I had a coco. OS/9 Level 1 Version 2.00.00 *will* boot on a CoCo3, but I don't think any previous version will. Mine's all packed up, or I'd be able to get you one... Maybe in a few weeks if you still need one. HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jan 24 13:56:08 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:58 2005 Subject: Looking for a boot disk for OS/9 for a CoCo 3 References: <3C4F1E3C.CD9EEFFF@verizon.net> <3.0.1.32.20020124142205.0147b728@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3C5066D7.88D6E28A@jetnet.ab.ca> Roger Merchberger wrote: > > I would think he'd want OS/9 Level 2 - it was much more capable especially > WRT the extra video hardware & GIME in the CoCo3. > OS/9 Level 1 Version 2.00.00 *will* boot on a CoCo3, but I don't think any > previous version will. A few people have been upgrading the CoCo3 to be a real computer. They have patched OS/9 to use a updated cpu 6309 ( discontinued of course ) to get top speed out the design. Here is a good page of links for the CoCo3. http://www.axess.com/twilight/sock/ -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 24 15:09:48 2002 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:58 2005 Subject: Looking for a boot disk for OS/9 for a CoCo 3 References: <3C4F1E3C.CD9EEFFF@verizon.net> <3.0.1.32.20020124142205.0147b728@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3C50781C.FA202CE0@verizon.net> Didn't see this note. Answers below. Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that Ben Franchuk may have mentioned these words: > >Eric Chomko wrote: > >> > >> Checked on eBay, none available. Anyone have such a thing? Original > >> preferred but will accept > >> a permanent offsite backup as well. Let me know how much you want for > >> it. > >> > >> TIA, > >> Eric > > > >Are you looking for level 1 OS/9 or level 2 OS/9? > > I would think he'd want OS/9 Level 2 - it was much more capable especially > WRT the extra video hardware & GIME in the CoCo3. > Yes, OS/9 ver. 2 is what I would prefer, but would take anything to test out the system at this point. > > >I think level 1 OS/9 for the coco 2 will work, > >but its been years since I had a coco. > > OS/9 Level 1 Version 2.00.00 *will* boot on a CoCo3, but I don't think any > previous version will. > > Mine's all packed up, or I'd be able to get you one... Maybe in a few weeks > if you still need one. > Thanks, Eric > > HTH, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > > If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead > disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 24 13:48:47 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:58 2005 Subject: OT: PayPal = payola? References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467551@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> <02Jan24.132040est.119088@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <002101c1a510$23689200$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Sad ... but true. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: Re: OT: PayPal = payola? > >Interesting one here... > > > >While composing a reply in Outlook 2001 (on a Mac OSX 10.1.2), I wrote > >'PayPal'. Since I have the program check spelling before sending :-) it came > >up and thought I meant to write 'payola' instead of PayPal. Think M$ is > >trying to say something? > > Nah, if it was something the M$ thought they could exploit, > they would have already bought up the company. > > Jeff > -- > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.cchaven.com > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From donm at cts.com Thu Jan 24 13:55:25 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:58 2005 Subject: Z-100 serial ports In-Reply-To: <20020124053321.NRZP17196.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > Although I have (I believe) all of the manuals for the Zenith Z-100 (not > Z-100 pc), I cannot find any reference to the serial ports on this box. > > What are the addresses of the DTE and DCE ports? I'd like to write some > assembly code to access these devices (under CP/M-86) but want to control > them at the hardware level instead of making BDOS calls. > > Any help out there? > > TIA, > > Glen > 0/0 The overlay for MEX (CP/M-80) says that the modem port - presumably DTE - is 0D8H. It does not mention the DCE port. Do both processors share the same seriak and parallel ports? - don From CLeyson at aol.com Thu Jan 24 14:50:44 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:58 2005 Subject: BBC Master keyboard Message-ID: <66.1ae6b8fb.2981cda4@aol.com> Just got myself an old BBC for 6502 assembler. My problem is that some of the key contacts need cleaning. My question is - Am I correct in thinking that all the keys need to unsoldered from the PCB, and are the key contacts easy to get at and clean ? Chris From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jan 24 15:35:42 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:58 2005 Subject: BBC Master keyboard In-Reply-To: CLeyson@aol.com "BBC Master keyboard" (Jan 24, 15:50) References: <66.1ae6b8fb.2981cda4@aol.com> Message-ID: <10201242135.ZM15252@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 24, 15:50, CLeyson@aol.com wrote: > Just got myself an old BBC for 6502 assembler. My problem is that > some of the key contacts need cleaning. My question is - > > Am I correct in thinking that all the keys need to unsoldered from the PCB, > and are the key contacts easy to get at and clean ? Whether you need to unsolder all the keyswitches depends on the keyboard -- there were 4 types, but only one -- fortunately the least common type -- needs much work. The best, and original, was the type using Futaba keyswitches, which have a white body. These are easy to remove, one at a time (desolder the connections, then release the clips which hold the keyswitch in the frame). I've seen a couple of pictures on the web showing the different types but I can't seem to find one right now :-( The normal way to fix faulty ones was to replace them. You can still sometimes find switches available from people who've dismantled machines. If not, I'd try removing the faulty keyswitches and cleaning them by swishing them in a small bowl of iso-propyl alcohol, or squirting IPA followed by switch cleaner through them. Finish with a good-quality low-residue switch cleaner. These are generally based on IPA with small amounts of very light oil (not usually silicone, as it creeps too much and gets into everything). Do not use anything like WD40! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From CLeyson at aol.com Thu Jan 24 16:28:07 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:58 2005 Subject: BBC Master keyboard Message-ID: <130.83898fc.2981e477@aol.com> In a message dated 24/01/02, pete@dunnington.u-net.com writes: > Whether you need to unsolder all the keyswitches depends on the keyboard -- > there were 4 types, but only one -- fortunately the least common type -- > needs much work. The best, and original, was the type using Futaba > keyswitches, which have a white body. These are easy to remove, one at a > time (desolder the connections, then release the clips which hold the > keyswitch in the frame). I've seen a couple of pictures on the web showing > the different types but I can't seem to find one right now :-( > > The normal way to fix faulty ones was to replace them. You can still > sometimes find switches available from people who've dismantled machines. > If not, I'd try removing the faulty keyswitches and cleaning them by > swishing them in a small bowl of iso-propyl alcohol, or squirting IPA > followed by switch cleaner through them. Finish with a good-quality > low-residue switch cleaner. These are generally based on IPA with small > amounts of very light oil (not usually silicone, as it creeps too much and > gets into everything). Do not use anything like WD40! >Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York Great, thanks for the advice Pete. Did a quick search with Goolge and found a few tips on BBC keyboard repair. It seems I have a type I keyboard with Futaba keyswitches fitted. They come out of the frame one at a time. After a bit of fiddling I discovered that the keyswitch body is held together by a small plastic clip and two screws. The terminal pins are the screws and can be removed by gently rotating with a pair of pliers. Terminal pins are silver plated and show signs of tarnishing on the faulty keyswitches. The contact leaf springs appear to be OK. A mild abrasive and some IPA should do the trick :-) Just wish I'd kept that Cherry keyboard form years ago with the Hall effect switches. Chris From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Thu Jan 24 14:59:02 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:58 2005 Subject: I need PDP-11/34A Help Again (Suprise Suprise) Message-ID: <3C507596.D0874170@Vishay.com> Owen, still interested in getting your PDP-11/34 to work? - I am just about to reassemble mine after relocation. RUN light off and display 000002 means the processor halted at memory location 2, so it has probably executed a HALT instruction (opcode 000000) from location 0. Try this: enter 773000, load this address, and then press START. Since 773000 is the standard start address for a bootstrap ROM, this should get you a response on the console terminal attached to the DL-11W. (Don't remember which, but I think it should ask for a two-letter device code to boot.) BTW: The DL11-W has a 20mA interface as well as RS-232. (Note the "1488" and "1489" chips being present as well as a number of transistors and other discrete components.) Which on is used depends on the cable: the plug will have some wire connections to code it for either 20mA current loop or RS-232 / V.24. If you have an original cable with the usual DB-25 connector, it should be OK: current loop used a completely different 6-pin connector. For the settings at the terminal, I don't know this particular type, but with most DEC lines you should be best prepared if you use XON/XOFF handshake ("Main Rcv Hndsk" / "Main Xmt Hdsk"). Since at PDP-11 times, the 8th bit was commonly used as a parity bit, set your terminal to ignore this. Otherwise, you may get garbage characters instead of about every second readable character. A RS-232 break signal (certain voltage level applied for a certain time, not a sequence of bits!) can sometimes cause a PDP-11 to HALT (depending on settings on the interface board), so you may want to avoid this... (perhaps by choosing an appropriate setting for the "Disconnect" option for now?) So much from memory. If you need more details, let me know, and I'll dig into the docs. Good luck, Andreas -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jan 24 15:27:57 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:58 2005 Subject: I need PDP-11/34A Help Again (Suprise Suprise) In-Reply-To: Re: I need PDP-11/34A Help Again (Suprise Suprise) (Andreas Freiherr) References: <3C507596.D0874170@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <15440.31837.874921.140509@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 24, Andreas Freiherr wrote: [pdp11/34] > Try this: enter 773000, load this address, and then press START. Since > 773000 is the standard start address for a bootstrap ROM, this should > get you a response on the console terminal attached to the DL-11W. > (Don't remember which, but I think it should ask for a two-letter device > code to boot.) It'll print the contents of R0, R4, R6, and R7, then give you a "@" prompt on the next line, at which you'd type a two letter device name to boot from. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From Golemancd at aol.com Thu Jan 24 15:31:04 2002 From: Golemancd at aol.com (Golemancd@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:58 2005 Subject: boot sector Message-ID: o yeah thanks. After about 10 minutes i figured out that there is a loop at the top. i just add the jump to the enty code. thanks. joe From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Thu Jan 24 15:32:04 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:58 2005 Subject: TSU05 Docs? Message-ID: <3C507D54.E7685FCF@Vishay.com> Does anybody out there have the docs available for the TSU05 controller board used in PDP-11s or VAXes with UNIBUS to connect to the DEC variant of the Cipher F880? The board is M7455, and I am looking for the meanings of the DIP switches. There must be CSR address and interrupt vector, each made up by several individual switches, but in addition to that, an "extended features" switch and one for "buffering". And, no, I am certain that I did not confuse this with the TSV05 (M7196) for Qbus. Thanks in advance! Andreas -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From caribe at candcsolution.com Thu Jan 24 16:17:48 2002 From: caribe at candcsolution.com (Caribe Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:58 2005 Subject: HP 1631D logic analyzer help Message-ID: Hello, I recently got an HP1631D logic analyzer and it won't remember the date or any of the internal settings. Is there a battery in it somewhere that I can replace to fix this? Thanks in advance for your replies! ~Caribe ========= Caribe Schreiber IT Engineer C&C Solutions, Inc 519 Russell Av N Mpls, MN 55405-1037 caribe@candcsolution.com Quote of the week: "The three levels of education explained: B.S. -Self-explanatory M.S. - More of the Same Ph.D. - Piled-higher and Deeper. -Anonymous" From spedraja at ono.com Thu Jan 24 16:26:08 2002 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:58 2005 Subject: IBM 3101 Dip Switches Configuration Message-ID: <001601c1a526$1ebfa160$0001a8c0@gw.cavorita.net> Hello. I have one IBM 3101 ascii terminal ready to be used connected with one serial cable to one Linux system that I have by the serial port 2. The inittab has uncommented the line referred to the ttyS1, and appears to be correct because one "ps -ef" shows the "/sbin/agetty ttyS1" line with the "[login]" comment. The problem is that the IBM 3101 don't establish communication with the Linux system. The 3101 show one "Line Check 2" message that talk about the comm.line, I suppose. The cable used is one normal serial cable. The 3101 has some dip switches in the upper of the keyboard. If they are taked, the Line Check 2 message dissapears and the screen is filled with "?" signs continuously. It's clear that some options can be configured with this method. Somebody has some more deep info about this terminal ? Must I use one special serial cable ? Thanks and Greetings Sergio From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Jan 24 16:48:21 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:58 2005 Subject: WTH is this? Message-ID: The rectangular boxes are relays, look like mercury wetted contact relays. The Bus is some sort of lab instrumentation and control. I am not sure what it is called. It is familiar with me too. I have seen quite a few similar cards in the past. Paxton Astoria, OR PS Nice to see you back. Nice MDS you got. What cards? From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Jan 24 16:50:16 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:58 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards Message-ID: <113.b6b0639.2981e9a8@aol.com> In a message dated 1/24/02 1:56:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, jss@subatomix.com writes: > > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 Proprinters -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020124/df8249ad/attachment.html From west at tseinc.com Thu Jan 24 16:51:08 2002 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:58 2005 Subject: HP 1631D logic analyzer help References: Message-ID: <01ef01c1a529$a0913e80$0101a8c0@jay> I have a 1631D... it has been a while since I used it, but... as I recall, there is no battery to replace, it wasn't designed to remember the date or any of the settings between poweroffs. I seem to recall looking that up in the manual a while back. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Caribe Schreiber" To: Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 4:17 PM Subject: HP 1631D logic analyzer help > Hello, > I recently got an HP1631D logic analyzer and it won't remember the > date or any of the internal settings. Is there a battery in it somewhere > that I can replace to fix this? Thanks in advance for your replies! > > ~Caribe > > ========= > Caribe Schreiber > IT Engineer > C&C Solutions, Inc > 519 Russell Av N > Mpls, MN 55405-1037 > caribe@candcsolution.com > > Quote of the week: "The three levels of education explained: > > B.S. -Self-explanatory > M.S. - More of the Same > Ph.D. - Piled-higher and Deeper. > > -Anonymous" > > > From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Jan 24 17:33:28 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:58 2005 Subject: Dot matrix printer ribbons (was Re: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards) References: <20020124220655.97770.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C5099C8.86BBB4A8@ccp.com> > I have a box of those - strangely enough for the AppleII and the C-64 - > they are really NOS, but _I've_ had them for 10 years. I have no idea > if the ink still contains enough solvent to transfer, but at least the > cloth is unused. > > If anyone is looking for vintage 1988 dot matrix ribbons for things > like the Imagewriter and/or CBM printers, let me know and I'll dig through > the box to see what models are represented. I figure a buck each plus > shipping ought to provide enough motivation to go digging. > > -ethan I'm interested, in ribbons for the cmmodore 1526, same as my Mannesman Talley Spirit-80. And anything for a Star NX10 if they are still around . . . . thanks in advance. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 24 13:10:51 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:58 2005 Subject: WTH is this? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020124141051.007cfe10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone have any idea what this card is for? When I picked it up I thought it was a Multibus card but a closer look reveals that it's (1) too tall, (2) too narrow, (3) The large connector at the bottom has 100 contacts instead of 86, (4) the narrow connector has 40 pins instead of 60 and it sticks down too far. Any ideas? Joe From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jan 24 16:33:44 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:58 2005 Subject: I'm Baack! In-Reply-To: from "Joe" at Jan 24, 2002 02:05:10 PM Message-ID: <200201242233.g0OMXi111310@shell1.aracnet.com> > I guess I only thought I'd get out of this hobby. Last week I got this > in the mail. This is from > a deal that I've had working for over a year. I've got it running and it > works nice! My condolences, and here I thought you were going to be an insperation to us all and prove that it is possible to recover from the classic computer addiction! :^( I guess it just goes to prove everyone here is doomed ! Welcome back :^) Zane From univac2 at earthlink.net Thu Jan 24 13:21:08 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:02 2005 Subject: PayPal = payola? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 1/24/02 12:59 PM, Doc at doc@mdrconsult.com wrote: > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > >> Since AOL bought Netscrape, they've done more to kill it than M$ ever did. >> I'll be glad when it's finally gone, along with AOL, though. > > AMEN! I dunno about the Windows version, but NS 6 for Linux is a > buggy farce of a resource hog. Netscape was one of the front runners in > developing a Linux port of their mainstream application, and the Linux > port was always at least as stable as the Windows one. If that's still > true, Netscape is headed for the dumper. The quality & stability of the > Netscape suite has declined almost since the day AOL bought 'em. "More > features! Screw debugging!" > I run Mozilla in Linux, and Opera (yes, I even paid for it) in > Windows. The two MacOS machines run NS 3.... > > Doc > Netscape 6 for Mac OS X is horrible. I hate the way it looks and acts, it's unstable, slow... Just picture Windows as a browser and you'll get the idea. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 24 15:08:32 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:06 2005 Subject: HP16C In-Reply-To: <009101c1a488$942a6b40$2be11840@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> from "Jonathan Engdahl" at Jan 23, 2 10:36:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3345 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020124/1051cd99/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 24 15:11:33 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:06 2005 Subject: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <61487.62.148.198.97.1011865931.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> from "Jarkko Teppo" at Jan 24, 2 11:52:11 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 524 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020124/994930f4/attachment.ksh From dan at ekoan.com Thu Jan 24 16:59:55 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:06 2005 Subject: Mastersport 386SX In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020124152116.0397c610@enigma> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020124175249.0475f4f0@enigma> At 04:30 PM 1/24/02 -0600, you wrote: >This is because these are true power supplies and not a wall-wart. Indeed. >The later generation power supplies are very small >switching power supplies. The 91-56403, which came with my USB ZIP drive, is only 2" x 1.75" x 1" (compared to the 3.5" x 2.25" x 2" of the earliest model) and accepts anything from 100 to 240 volts. There's even a serial number printed on it. If I were Tony I would already have taken it apart to confirm what's inside... Cheers, Dan From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 24 15:47:54 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:06 2005 Subject: Mastersport 386SX In-Reply-To: <3C4FF169.FCC77DAC@mich.com> from "Dave Mabry" at Jan 24, 2 06:35:05 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 323 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020124/7ac95cda/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 24 16:05:07 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:06 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1A1@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> from "Christopher Smith" at Jan 24, 2 10:01:25 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 661 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020124/2ca236cc/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 24 16:31:10 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:06 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: from "Chris" at Jan 24, 2 02:17:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1081 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020124/cdaa0bc0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 24 16:09:59 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:06 2005 Subject: OT? Apple Stylewriter problems (PS progress) In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Jan 24, 2 10:30:28 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1489 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020124/a53f38e2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 24 16:13:02 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:06 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jan 24, 2 09:55:39 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 638 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020124/6f68497d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 24 16:24:30 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:06 2005 Subject: QFP soldering In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E587A1B5@MAIL10> from "Cini, Richard" at Jan 24, 2 01:50:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1188 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020124/afce372f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 24 16:46:17 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:06 2005 Subject: HP2671G + fax paper Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 643 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020124/ac3f797d/attachment.ksh From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 24 17:14:42 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:06 2005 Subject: IBM 3101 Dip Switches Configuration In-Reply-To: <001601c1a526$1ebfa160$0001a8c0@gw.cavorita.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, SP wrote: > The problem is that the IBM 3101 don't establish communication > with the Linux system. The 3101 show one "Line Check 2" message > that talk about the comm.line, I suppose. The cable used is one > normal serial cable. If by "normal serial cable" you mean a standard port-to-modem cable, that is most likely your problem. You need to use a null-modem serial cable with a terminal. Doc From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jan 24 17:40:52 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:06 2005 Subject: IBM 3101 Dip Switches Configuration In-Reply-To: Re: IBM 3101 Dip Switches Configuration (Doc) References: <001601c1a526$1ebfa160$0001a8c0@gw.cavorita.net> Message-ID: <15440.39812.784237.564987@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 24, Doc wrote: > > The problem is that the IBM 3101 don't establish communication > > with the Linux system. The 3101 show one "Line Check 2" message > > that talk about the comm.line, I suppose. The cable used is one > > normal serial cable. > > If by "normal serial cable" you mean a standard port-to-modem cable, > that is most likely your problem. You need to use a null-modem serial > cable with a terminal. That depends *completely* on the terminal. Several even have both DTE- and DCE-wired connectors. My standard rule for dealing with an RS232 in-yer-face is to plug it in without a null modem and see if it works...if it doesn't, then plug in a null modem. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From west at tseinc.com Thu Jan 24 17:55:16 2002 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:06 2005 Subject: IBM 3101 Dip Switches Configuration References: Message-ID: <023301c1a532$933a3da0$0101a8c0@jay> > > The cable used is one > > normal serial cable. There is absolutely no such thing as a "normal" serial cable. System designers and engineers always seemed to play foot loose and fancy free with RS-232, determining which signals to implement, etc. Even with a "complete" implementation, you still have the issue of DTE-DCE or DT/CE to DT/CE, etc. I guess the closest one could come to defining a "normal" serial cable is all 25 signals, wired "straight through". This cable only typically works with DTE to DCE connections, or most commonly, a terminal to a modem. I would say this approaches "normal", only because RS-232 was designed for going from a DTE to a DCE, and anything else - was "home brew". I have seen some awfully creative ways to defeat the DTE to DCE design when hooking up devices of the same type. Forcing signals high from the test voltage pins, etc. RS-232 is such a mongrel. Jay West From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jan 24 18:10:17 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:06 2005 Subject: UofM Property Disposition In-Reply-To: from "Netdiablo" at Jan 24, 2002 06:46:20 PM Message-ID: <200201250010.g0P0AIx16232@shell1.aracnet.com> > 2. I saw a DEC pedestal cabinet there that looked exactly like a VAX > 4000 series machine, but it was just labeled "R 4000". I'm assuming > this was some sort of VAX, and there seems to have been a thread on > the NetBSD/vax mailing list about it a while back, but since their > mailing list archive server seems to be down at the moment, can anyone > tell me more about this machine? I'm a bit curious as to what it > is. IIRC it's a DSSI Disk cabinet (might also have Q-Bus slots for Q-Bus expansion). Can't really get to mine to verify what the nameplate says (it's being used as a PDP-8/e stand and is crammed between a wall and and the Neo Geo cabinet). Zane From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Jan 24 17:49:57 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:06 2005 Subject: AT&T hardware In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have an AT&T 6544 'cluster controller' I got off of ebay this past summer. (July I believe) I now have it, but the hard drive (an ST-225 scsi drive) was crashed beyond all belief: about 1 in 10 or > sectors are unreadble on my desktop. The thing wont boot or do anything. I've found one company (Telemechanics) that seems to support them, but i'm sure i don't want to spend the few hundred++ dollars that they'd want for a new drive and software. I was wondering if anyone has software or helpful info on the device. Thanks much! -- Pat From thompson at mail.athenet.net Thu Jan 24 18:09:26 2002 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:06 2005 Subject: IBM 3151 terminals (Which keyboard?) In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1A4@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: The correct part number for the 3151 keyboard is 1395162. I have a cool looking 1395660 zillion key keyboard which I can plug into the 3151 and get the same error as you mentioned. This keyboard originally came off a twinax AS/400 terminal. Some of the keys work as advertised. Paul -- From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Jan 24 17:48:47 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:06 2005 Subject: Unisys manuals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Since I'll be going home again this weekend, I though I'd try posting this again. If these aren't claimed by Saturday night, they'll be pitched. -- Pat On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > Going through the crap I have in the basement, I ran across a few manuals > for an old Unisys unix box I used to have (until my parents moved, and > left it behind). If anyone is interested, I'm asking $5 each + actual > shipping cost. > > U5000/20/30/35/40/50 and /55 Systems > U5000 Series Operating System > > -- Installation Guide UP-12693 Rev 1 > > -- Planning Guide UP-11768 Rev 3 > > -- Programming Guide UP-11221 > > -- Installation and Planning Guide UP-12694 Rev 1 > > -- User Reference Manual Volume 2 UP-11760 Rev 2 > > > Those are all in binders, complete with the black case-thing to make them > easy to stack on a book-shelf. All in good condition. > > Contact me off-list if interested. > > Thanks > > -- Pat > From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 24 09:50:23 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:06 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > I'm the person that started the thread in alt.sys.pdp10. I'm still > looking and have one unexplored lead at this point. In the process of > searching for the whereabouts (or demise) of the Foonly F1, I've > exchanged e-mail with a lot of interesting folks from that era of > computer generated visual effects. Please keep us posted on your progress. It would be HIGHLY cool if you were to track this down. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 24 09:51:19 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Pat Barron wrote: > I happened across one of these recently, and have no real interest in > Microdata. So, I've listed the thing on eBay, check it out if > interested... > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1326034396 Lame. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 24 18:49:43 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: A different IBM 3101 question entirely... Message-ID: I have an 3101 as the console on one of my IBM minicomputers (8140C92), and I really would love to have the manual... Anyone have one they'd part with? Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From chris at mainecoon.com Thu Jan 24 19:00:43 2002 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: UofM Property Disposition In-Reply-To: <3C509B01.B62822FC@diablonet.net> Message-ID: Sean Caron wrote: [stuff deleted] > 3. There was an interesting looking Evans & Sutherland computer there > labeled as an ES-3. I popped the front cover off of it and it looked > relatively sophisticated, but I didn't actually pull any boards and > get a good look at them since they don't like people doing that sort > of thing there at the warehouse. I read somewhere that this box runs > UNIX and had some pretty nice graphics capabilities for its time. Does > anyone know much about these (e.g. architechture, history, OS > specifics, etc)? Does anyone know how they stacked up to SGIs of the > era and similar competing machines? The thing's kind of heavy and > transportation to and from the warehouse is pretty evil for me, but > if its a really nifty machine, I'd like to save it (I've certainly > never seen one before). Unfortunately there didn't seem to be any > monitor, keyboard, or mouse included with it. Does anyone know any > specifics about these either? I don't have specifics on the ES-3, but E&S more or less created the field of extremely high-performance real-time graphics for large-scale real-time simulations -- things like bridge simulators for warships, real-time scene generation for combat aircraft simulators and the like. I don't believe E&S ever made a general purpose computer, almost all of their stuff is attached or embedded processors with architectures optimized for real-time scene generation based on abstract display primitives (a need at E&S for a way to describe graphic objects independent of hardware is the claimed genesis of Postscript). I'd bet you're looking at some sort of image pipeline processor (as in a pipeline of images, not a pipelined processor in a traditional sense) that was designed to drive some sort of high resolution device, either a display projector (or a set of them) or a film printer (or something like). -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Jan 24 19:08:17 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: QFP soldering In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146DFF@BUSH02> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Davison, Lee wrote: > Richard Cini wrote... > > So, here's the stupid question...how do I solder > these things? Do I hold the iron parallel or perpendicular > to the package leads? The board is pre-tinned, but I > should I also tin the QFP leads? > > Neither. The best way to home solder these things is to use > solder paste and a toaster oven, there's an article on > www.seattlerobotics.org on how to do this. Actually you dont even need solderpaste, you can just tin the pads (_NOT_ the qfp, you'll bend the pins and have a real mess if you try that) after tha pads have been tinned, carefully align the QFP to the card and tack solder the corner pins, using a excess of rosin flux. Now you put a lot of rosin flux on the leads and solder the QFP by heating the card with a hot air gun from the back. once the solder melts, surface tension will pull the chip into accurate alignment. a _gentle_ tap in the board with a screwdriver will often help "settle" the part. It is easy to burn the card , so I would suggest practicing on some old ISA cards with QFP parts. (you can use the hot air gun to remove the parts also) You notice I mentioned an excess of flux. That is the key: Surface tension is your friend here. Its even possible to solder BGA's this way, but a mistake with a BGA fatal to the chip (unless you have a re-baller) > > If you must use a soldering iron use a large bit (4.5 to 6 mm) > and run along the edge of the tinned section, not quite touching > the pins, and allow the solder to wick into the joints. Don't > worry about solder bridges, these can be removed later with > solder wick and a good flux. I use this method also and it works quite well, you can get much better quality that by individual pin soldering. You can also remouve mos of the extra solder by tilting the board, appling lots of flux, and gently running the iron along the QFP edges, with the iron pointing up (so the solder runs down from the board to the iron) > > If you make a complete mess of it remove the chip using a > hot air gun then clean the board with solder wick removing > any left over flux with solvent and try again. > > Also use a soldering iron of at least 45W with a temperature > controlled bit. > > The easiest way to practice is with the chips on scrap PC > motherboards ... see they do have a use 8^)= > > Lee. > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The > information contained in this email may contain information which is > confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender > and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. > > If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please > delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International > IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The > service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive > anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: > http://www.star.net.uk > ________________________________________________________________________ > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From west at tseinc.com Thu Jan 24 19:13:32 2002 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" References: Message-ID: <026701c1a53d$83beeb40$0101a8c0@jay> Lame? I think NOT!!!! Talk about historical.... The Microdata was THE very FIRST commercial Pick operating system based computer. It was the one Dick Pick and Chandru Murthi gave the Pick operating system to the world on. Why was it chosen? Simple... the microcode architecture was extremely flexible. They wrote the operating system using a virtual (or "mythical") instruction set, then programmed the firmware (EEPROM) with the necessary missionary to native instructions to execute the virtual code. Most other operating systems are designed the other way around. Absolutely fascinating, and certainly historical. Regards, Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 9:51 AM Subject: Re: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" > On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Pat Barron wrote: > > > I happened across one of these recently, and have no real interest in > > Microdata. So, I've listed the thing on eBay, check it out if > > interested... > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1326034396 > > Lame. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 24 10:22:45 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > When I closed up my office, I could find people who wanted everything > else, from old magazines and newspapers, books, files of clippings, > internal documents, schematics, even marketing materials from defunct > companies, furniture, empty binders with company names on the spines, > computers, unidentifiable circuit boards, 8 inch drives, Syquest drives, > modems, weird cables, T shirts, trade show freebie crap, . . . That's not so strange when you consider all this material will be (if it isn't already) highly historic and useful for research in the future (which is why I took all that "crap" :) > I had a very difficult time getting anybody to take FREE monitors and FREE > printers. The only way that I could get anybody to take them was to start > boxing them up with S100 cards, etc. and making unbreakable package deals. Well, I also collect various printers, monitors, and terminals. I'm weird. But boring as they are, it's all part of the record, and needs preserving. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 24 19:20:13 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: UofM Property Disposition Message-ID: Actually, I know E&S did produce some computers at some point, I can't say I've ever been able to learn very much about them, but they are high-powered graphics computers of some sort, super expensive.. A while back there were a bunch of parts of them on Eoverpay... I think it ought to be rescued but thats just me. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 24 17:12:35 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: Mastersport 386SX In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jan 24, 2 10:31:33 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 546 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020124/12209ae9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 24 17:32:48 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: BBC Master keyboard In-Reply-To: <10201242135.ZM15252@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jan 24, 2 09:35:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2646 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020124/a59b74f3/attachment.ksh From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 24 19:27:12 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: AT&T hardware Message-ID: Pat, Unless you have a need to control a bunch of 3270-emulating terminals, a 6544 isn't a terrible useful thing to have. It's basically a non-IBM version of a 3174, etc., which is a unit used to hook up many terminals to your 3270-protocol host computer, be it mainframe or minicomputer. I don't know what terminals the thing is meant for, since it beats me if AT&T's terminals support 3270, but they probably do, though I'd imagine it doesn't use coax.. Which, if that is true, might limit you to using AT&T terminals with it, which is kinda crappy.. Hope that helps some Will J _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From rschaefe at gcfn.org Thu Jan 24 19:23:25 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. References: Message-ID: <012f01c1a53e$e46404c0$87469280@Y5F3Q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 04:20 PM Subject: Re: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. > > > Second-hand meggers are not hard to find in the UK, and are not that > > > expensive (I paid \pounds 25.00 for an insulation tester, not Megger > > > brand, but well built, and with selectable test voltages, etc). > > > > What would you suggest I look for in a tester? I've been thinking about > > Well, you want a true meter (actually measures and displays the > resistance) rather than a 'go/no go' tester that just says if something > is safe to use or not. > > THe most important thing is probably the test voltage. You want to do the > tests at at least tiwce the normal working voltage of the unit (so at > least 500V in the UK). The better testers have the following : > > Selectable test voltages (often 100V, 250V, 500V, 1000V). Very useful. > One thing to watch out for is the insulation class you are testing.... Running a 1000v test on insulation rated for 600v isn't the best thing in the world for it. Bob From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 24 10:38:20 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" In-Reply-To: <026701c1a53d$83beeb40$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Jay West wrote: > Lame? I think NOT!!!! Talk about historical.... Sorry, I was not at all commenting on the Microdata. It is indeed a very historic machine. What I was commenting on, at the expense of launching yet another off-topic flame war (here's a hint: don't reply to this message; ignore me...you'll live longer), is the fact that Pat decided to just throw the item on eBay and then announce the auction here, rather than offering it to the list first. I find that to be rude. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 24 19:31:13 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" Message-ID: I own this handbook, it certainly is not "lame"... Hard as hell to find much detailed Microdata info on the 'net.. Lame would be if he just threw it in the dumpster... Is placing a monetary value on goods lame? I don't think he got the handbook for free.. And I certainly paid more than what the opening bid of his is for mine.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 24 19:32:23 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: WTH is this? Message-ID: It could also be a development tool of some sort for the largest device on the board, possibly... Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 24 19:35:21 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards Message-ID: Not *ALL* printers are boring... For example, it would be nice to have a printer for my Honeywell... or my Wang.. or.. etc. You get the point. I'd have taken 'em without anything throw in Fred, if I didn't live multiple states away, heh. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 24 19:25:19 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: Mastersport 386SX In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020124175249.0475f4f0@enigma> from "Dan Veeneman" at Jan 24, 2 05:59:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1279 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020125/4eaeee04/attachment.ksh From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Jan 24 19:29:31 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: Unisys manuals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Wow, I'm suprised at the quick response-- especially considering I got _NO_ response the last time I posted this. They're gone. -- Pat On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > > Since I'll be going home again this weekend, I though I'd try posting this > again. If these aren't claimed by Saturday night, they'll be pitched. > > -- Pat > > On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > > > Going through the crap I have in the basement, I ran across a few manuals > > for an old Unisys unix box I used to have (until my parents moved, and > > left it behind). If anyone is interested, I'm asking $5 each + actual > > shipping cost. > > > > U5000/20/30/35/40/50 and /55 Systems > > U5000 Series Operating System > > > > -- Installation Guide UP-12693 Rev 1 > > > > -- Planning Guide UP-11768 Rev 3 > > > > -- Programming Guide UP-11221 > > > > -- Installation and Planning Guide UP-12694 Rev 1 > > > > -- User Reference Manual Volume 2 UP-11760 Rev 2 > > > > > > Those are all in binders, complete with the black case-thing to make them > > easy to stack on a book-shelf. All in good condition. > > > > Contact me off-list if interested. > > > > Thanks > > > > -- Pat > > > From mythtech at Mac.com Thu Jan 24 19:38:09 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: Apple II boards Message-ID: <200201250138.g0P1cAm09801@ns2.ezwind.net> >At the "top" of the spectrum, I got a IIc+ (4MHz CPU, modern serial >connectors (not like a IIc) Anyone have the pinouts for the IIc's modem port's DIN 5? I assume it is a stanard serial port, and that I can just build an adaptor cable for it, and connect it to a hayes modem or similar. Sound right? -chris From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jan 24 19:43:56 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" In-Reply-To: <026701c1a53d$83beeb40$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Jay West wrote: > Lame? I think NOT!!!! Talk about historical.... Perhaps lame in the sense that someone is sticking this up on ebay instead of getting it to someone who can archive it? :P -Toth From mythtech at Mac.com Thu Jan 24 19:53:28 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update Message-ID: <200201250153.g0P1rTm10046@ns2.ezwind.net> >My little U-matic portable (The front says JVC, the service manual says >Hitachi...) has SO239 socket ('UHF') for the composite video input and >output. It's a 625 line PAL machine, of course -- I have no idea what the >NTSC version uses.... My UMatic experience is really limited to just Panasonic and Sony units (dating from mid-late 70's thru my newest Sony is maybe 10 years old now). But interestingly... I was wrong... I HAVE seen the "UHF" connector for composite. I had completely forgotten about the old closed circuit video system I pulled out when I started working at my current job. They had 3 black and white security cameras that used that connector. I know they were composite video, because I remember using an RCA adaptor, and connecting one to a VCR's video line in shortly after pulling them out of service. So yeah... I have actually seen that setup, I had just forgotten about it, as it might have been the only place I have seen that (but also, 90% of my AV experience is from mid 80's to mid-late 90's, so most of what I was exposed to is the "current standards" connectors). That's why I disclaimed that I wasn't saying it didn't exist... just that I hadn't seen it (I have also learned in A/V, if there is a connector out there, odds are, someone, at sometime, used it in their setup) -chris From thompson at mail.athenet.net Thu Jan 24 20:41:17 2002 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: UofM Property Disposition In-Reply-To: <3C509B01.B62822FC@diablonet.net> Message-ID: > 2. I saw a DEC pedestal cabinet there that looked exactly like a VAX > 4000 series machine, but it was just labeled "R 4000". I'm assuming > this was some sort of VAX, and there seems to have been a thread on > the NetBSD/vax mailing list about it a while back, but since their > mailing list archive server seems to be down at the moment, can anyone > tell me more about this machine? I'm a bit curious as to what it > is. R400XB9 7 unit DSSI expansion pedestal? -- From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jan 24 21:34:23 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: UofM Property Disposition In-Reply-To: <3C509B01.B62822FC@diablonet.net> Message-ID: > 3. There was an interesting looking Evans & Sutherland computer there > labeled as an ES-3. I popped the front cover off of it and it looked > relatively sophisticated, but I didn't actually pull any boards and > get a good look at them since they don't like people doing that sort > of thing there at the warehouse. I read somewhere that this box runs > UNIX and had some pretty nice graphics capabilities for its time. Does > anyone know much about these (e.g. architechture, history, OS > specifics, etc)? Does anyone know how they stacked up to SGIs of the > era and similar competing machines? E&S are the godfathers of computer graphics, and their systems are very high end - SGI equipment at its best is still pretty lame compared to what an E&S can do. Prices, too. Very much worth getting. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jan 24 17:24:27 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" "Re: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards" (Jan 24, 15:34) References: <20020124153224.D7647-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <10201242324.ZM15385@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 24, 15:34, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > Lawrence LeMay said: > > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 > > perhaps... > > Old printer ribbons. No, you can re-ink printer ribbons :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jan 24 20:13:48 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <200201241851.NAA12899@wordstock.com> from Bryan Pope at "Jan 24, 2 01:51:53 pm" Message-ID: <200201250213.SAA12146@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Ha! My 1902a monitor attached to my C128 just got a little more valuable! ;) > Is it just me or is the screen not as clear on the 1902a (when the 128 is in > 64 mode) as I remember my 64 hooked up to a 1702? I myself find my 1902's image inferior to the picture I got from the trusty 1702. These 1702s are becoming so popular because of their good quality and reliability (if it's physically intact, it's virtually guaranteed to work) that I'm seeing some ridiculous prices on them. People grab them for old game consoles, too. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The idea is to die young as late as possible. -- Ashley Montagu ------------ From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Jan 24 21:31:54 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards References: <200201250213.SAA12146@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3C50D1AA.190BE0AB@ccp.com> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > Ha! My 1902a monitor attached to my C128 just got a little more valuable! ;) > > Is it just me or is the screen not as clear on the 1902a (when the 128 is in > > 64 mode) as I remember my 64 hooked up to a 1702? > > I myself find my 1902's image inferior to the picture I got from the trusty > 1702. These 1702s are becoming so popular because of their good quality and > reliability (if it's physically intact, it's virtually guaranteed to work) > that I'm seeing some ridiculous prices on them. People grab them for old game > consoles, too. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- The idea is to die young as late as possible. -- Ashley Montagu ------------ I seem to remember the 1902 and the Amiga 1080 were the same monitor, but I could be wrong. The 1702 was a JVC monitor with commodore's name on it. You might be getting a weary, or gassy CRT, that would explain why it is bleary. AFAIK they shuld be pretty much equivalent in visual performance. Gary Hildebrand From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jan 25 00:27:50 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <3C50D1AA.190BE0AB@ccp.com> from Gary Hildebrand at "Jan 24, 2 09:31:54 pm" Message-ID: <200201250627.WAA25972@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > I myself find my 1902's image inferior to the picture I got from the trusty > > 1702. These 1702s are becoming so popular because of their good quality and > > reliability (if it's physically intact, it's virtually guaranteed to work) > > that I'm seeing some ridiculous prices on them. People grab them for old > > game consoles, too. > I seem to remember the 1902 and the Amiga 1080 were the same monitor, > but I could be wrong. The 1702 was a JVC monitor with commodore's name > on it. As a matter of fact, the 1701 and 1702 are JVC TM-13Us, if memory serves. I've seen them in use at the medical school. > You might be getting a weary, or gassy CRT, that would explain why it is > bleary. AFAIK they shuld be pretty much equivalent in visual > performance. Not so much indistinct as the 1702's picture is more vivid. (No, I don't think it's a matter of having the tint control too low :-) For my money, the 1084 is the same way, but many people swear by them. I like them better than the 1902 series, but I still prefer the 1702. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- FORTUNE: You can overcome any obstacle. Try a steeplechase. ---------------- From ghldbrd at ccp.com Fri Jan 25 04:32:46 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards References: <200201250627.WAA25972@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3C51344E.2C0ABC94@ccp.com> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Not so much indistinct as the 1702's picture is more vivid. (No, I don't > think it's a matter of having the tint control too low :-) That's the magic word there . . . and that is due to using different phosphors. I've seen some CRT's with a reddish-orange phosphor for 'red' and that would tend to give a better rendition on human flesh. And that would sell the television set. Gary Hildebrand From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Jan 25 04:17:59 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3C50DC77.23632.1592373@localhost> I tend to do the same thing, only special types of them such an Epson LK1500 wide carriage that would use Sideways Software(labeled "this printer prints sideways") or a Vic 20 color plotter. Different types of printers, monitors, and other "examples" of the technology of the time. Not in the same league as your or John Keys collection of course. Lawrence. > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > When I closed up my office, I could find people who wanted everything > > else, from old magazines and newspapers, books, files of clippings, > > internal documents, schematics, even marketing materials from defunct > > companies, furniture, empty binders with company names on the spines, > > computers, unidentifiable circuit boards, 8 inch drives, Syquest drives, > > modems, weird cables, T shirts, trade show freebie crap, . . . > > That's not so strange when you consider all this material will be (if it > isn't already) highly historic and useful for research in the future > (which is why I took all that "crap" :) > > > I had a very difficult time getting anybody to take FREE monitors and FREE > > printers. The only way that I could get anybody to take them was to start > > boxing them up with S100 cards, etc. and making unbreakable package deals. > > Well, I also collect various printers, monitors, and terminals. I'm > weird. But boring as they are, it's all part of the record, and needs > preserving. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Jan 25 04:17:59 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <200201250213.SAA12146@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200201241851.NAA12899@wordstock.com> from Bryan Pope at "Jan 24, 2 01:51:53 pm" Message-ID: <3C50DC77.4568.1592314@localhost> They also make a pretty good color tv when hooked to a VCR as the tuner. I've got 2 1702s, 2 different models of 1802s, and an 2002, still not sure which I prefer since each has specific good features. The 2002 seems to be the best on the Amiga 2000 tho. Unfortunately I don't have a 1084. > > Ha! My 1902a monitor attached to my C128 just got a little more valuable! ;) > > Is it just me or is the screen not as clear on the 1902a (when the 128 is in > > 64 mode) as I remember my 64 hooked up to a 1702? > > I myself find my 1902's image inferior to the picture I got from the trusty > 1702. These 1702s are becoming so popular because of their good quality and > reliability (if it's physically intact, it's virtually guaranteed to work) that > I'm seeing some ridiculous prices on them. People grab them for old game > consoles, too. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- The idea is to die young as late as possible. -- Ashley Montagu ------------ Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Jan 25 04:24:23 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1B3@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <3C514067.25738.4EF3D4E3@localhost> > > > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 > > > perhaps... > > Old printer ribbons. Reink and reuse them (Unless you're talking about this plasic variety, or even worse the 'ribbons' for thermal printers (BTW: there is still a shop selling the thermal ribbon for the old Aplle silent writers here in muncih). > The United States government. :) (Ok, that was off topic) Well .... we may add some other governments as well. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jan 24 20:12:33 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <200201250138.g0P1cAm09801@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Chris wrote: > >At the "top" of the spectrum, I got a IIc+ (4MHz CPU, modern serial > >connectors (not like a IIc) > > Anyone have the pinouts for the IIc's modem port's DIN 5? I assume it is > a stanard serial port, and that I can just build an adaptor cable for it, > and connect it to a hayes modem or similar. Sound right? Actually, I just did a search for this myself ;) http://til.info.apple.com/tilarchive.nsf/artnum/n1419 or, if Apple is still wanting to know a little too much to access it; http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:til.info.apple.com/tilarchive.nsf/artnum/n1419 also a diagram here: http://www.fabianrodriguez.com/apple/ -Toth From mythtech at Mac.com Thu Jan 24 20:57:52 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: Apple II boards Message-ID: <200201250257.g0P2vrJ10599@ns2.ezwind.net> >http://til.info.apple.com/tilarchive.nsf/artnum/n1419 or, if Apple is >still wanting to know a little too much to access it; I'm using a Mac.com account, so I already promised my first born to apple... so I can safely peruse their TIL at will (now, if I had only bothered to look first) Thanks! -chris From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Jan 24 21:28:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: Apple II boards References: <200201250138.g0P1cAm09801@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <3C50D0C0.AF86EE87@ccp.com> Chris wrote: > > >At the "top" of the spectrum, I got a IIc+ (4MHz CPU, modern serial > >connectors (not like a IIc) > > Anyone have the pinouts for the IIc's modem port's DIN 5? I assume it is > a stanard serial port, and that I can just build an adaptor cable for it, > and connect it to a hayes modem or similar. Sound right? > > -chris > > The IIc and IIc+ have different plugs. Don't know what the IIc is, but you can do a google search. I have a IIc+ and I got a couple Mac to DB25 adapters for a buck apiece. Gary Hildebrand From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Fri Jan 25 01:09:52 2002 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <004501c1a4e9$1d5db420$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <004501c1a4e9$1d5db420$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <61454.62.148.198.97.1011942592.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Richard Erlacher said: > If they're popular enough in .fi, perhaps we can save a few landfills > from them by sending 'em to interested parties there. I'm not sure about other interested parties but I've always wanted one. Maybe some day... > > An Apple IIe is not uncommonly priced at $5 around here (I just bought > one that had a couple of drives bundled with it for $8, though all I > wanted was the PSU) . A IIc is not uncommon at that price either. > It's been a while since I saw more than one ][+ in the same store, but > those seldom cost more than $10, and usually closer to $5. I would > estimate that the freight would exceed that amount by quite a little > bit. Disk drives are often together with these units, though that > propels their cost into the $10-$12 range. > The freight is a definite problem. I once bought a few HP9K/300 items (total weight around ~400 grams) and with the freight and the currency transfer the price tripled from the original $20. And I didn't choose overnight UPS delivery either as it took something like a few months. It almost seems cheaper to fly there :-) -- jht From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Fri Jan 25 01:14:45 2002 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <200201241612.IAA10776@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200201241612.IAA10776@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <61551.62.148.198.97.1011942885.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Cameron Kaiser said: > > Now, remember -- the fact that C64s are cheap does not make them any > less valuable. ;-) > I know :-) I've gotten some really good offers on the two Action Replay carts that I have. I had some really good luck with Commodore machines as I stumbled upon the bankcrupty sale of the Finnish importer around 1991/1992 and I found a really good pile of machines/disk drives/carts from a "recycling center". I just need to find that mythical 1581. -- jht From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Jan 25 04:17:58 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <200201242028.OAA19049@caesar.cs.umn.edu> References: <3C4F59A0.26053.524063E@localhost> Message-ID: <3C50DC76.9601.15922B0@localhost> It's up to $17.50 with 5 days to go. It should wind up in the $40-$50 range, and of course it's not a B&H. Keep in mind also that things haven't recovered from 9/11 yet. And there's no B&H one on. Lawrence > Someone has one on ebay right now: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1326232741 > > Better hurry, the bidding is already up to $1.25 ! > > -Lawrence LeMay > > > I guess you don't follow Epay very much. Since the A-2s have started to > > become scarce, II+'s have become a rising commodity. I'd be only very > > happy to take any you get for that price off your hands and give you double > > that. A black Bell and Howell would fetch well over a $100 even with the > > downturn in the economy. > > > > Lawrence > > > > > > > > Thats starting to sound a bit like white-coat syndrome. These computers are > > > not rare artifacts to be hidden away behind glass walls, only to be touched > > > by the neophites in white lab coats, you know. Go ahead and experiment, heck > > > throw the completely wrong hardware in and cause a major short circuit! And > > > in so doing, know that you can always get another apple ][+ or 3 for about > > > $5 (if not for free, heaven knows i keep getting offered the things...) > > > > > > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 > > > perhaps... > > > > > > -Lawrence LeMay > > > > > > > > Reply to: > > lgwalker@mts.net > > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jan 24 20:29:40 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: OT: PayPal = payola? In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467551@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> from David Woyciesjes at "Jan 24, 2 12:06:55 pm" Message-ID: <200201250229.SAA10004@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > While composing a reply in Outlook 2001 (on a Mac OSX 10.1.2), I wrote > 'PayPal'. Since I have the program check spelling before sending :-) it came > up and thought I meant to write 'payola' instead of PayPal. Think M$ is > trying to say something? Yeah, it means it wants you to use Microsoft Wallet :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- It's not enough to be Hungarian. You must have talent too. -- Alex Korda --- From jrengdahl at safeaccess.com Thu Jan 24 20:48:30 2002 From: jrengdahl at safeaccess.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: HP16C References: Message-ID: <00b301c1a54b$5078aa60$2be11840@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> After gently and unsuccessfully prying to see if I could get the PC board out, I gave up and put it back together. I stole the batteries out of a laser pointer and tried it, and Behold! -- it works. Perfectly! -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 1 Allen-Bradley Drive Advanced Technology Mayfield Heights, OH 44124 http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl jrengdahl@safeaccess.com "The things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 From jss at subatomix.com Thu Jan 24 21:46:03 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020124214457.N8534-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > > > I'm the person that started the thread in alt.sys.pdp10. I'm still > > looking and have one unexplored lead at this point. In the process of > > searching for the whereabouts (or demise) of the Foonly F1, I've > > exchanged e-mail with a lot of interesting folks from that era of > > computer generated visual effects. > > Please keep us posted on your progress. It would be HIGHLY cool if you > were to track this down. Even if it has been chopped to bits, It would still be so amazingly cool to have one of the bits. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From allain at panix.com Thu Jan 24 23:03:02 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: More DELLness & TRON! :D References: <20020124214457.N8534-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <000d01c1a55d$919e5960$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Even if it has been chopped to bits, It would > still be so amazingly cool to have one of the bits. It's been said to be with Karol Brandt. Anybody know who that is? (He'll probably keep the bits BTW) But here's a nice nameplate for ya: http://64.2.61.71/sail/foonly-logo.jpg John A. From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Thu Jan 24 22:09:46 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: Mastersport 386SX Message-ID: <20020125041846.YBOS17815.imf26bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Dave Mabry Pardon the shorthand. I meant wall wart, or external power supply. I figured this would be obvious when asked in reference to a laptop, but, I've been wrong before ;>) > Sorry to be dense, but what is a "wart" in this context? > > Glen Goodwin wrote: > > > > Does anyone have the wart for this Zenith Data Systems laptop? > > > > Or the pinouts for the wart, even? > > > > TIA, > > > > Glen > > 0/0 > > -- > Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com > Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team > NACD #2093 From vaxman at earthlink.net Thu Jan 24 22:10:15 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: QFP soldering In-Reply-To: Message-ID: DON'T TIN THE PADS! You'll end up with major problems getting the QFP to sit down, leading to unsoldered pins! If you have a microscope, use it!!! Gently place the QFP on the board. They sell special vacumm wands that work good, but gently setting down then sliding it into position works ok (put these chips on first). Get the part into the approximate position, then finely align one corner. Tack one pin down. Align the other corner. You can twist the part one or two pads without damage, but more is bad. Unsolder the first pad if it is too far out of alignment. Use solder wick to clean all traces of solder off the pad and start over. Once you get two opposite corners tacked, make sure your pin 1 is correct, and all the remaining pins are over the correct pads. It's pretty easy to shift the whole package by a little bit, especially if you don't have a microscope. Apply a water soluble liquid flux to one entire side of the chip. Really goop it on. It doesn't hurt, and you can wash off the excess. I've tried soldering one pin at a time, and never had any luck with it. The way I was shown was to use a pretty fine tip with a 45 degree angle about 1/2 inch from the tip. If you lay the 1/2 inch part of the tip in the crotch formed by the pin legs, you heat a number of pins, with the pin at the tip getting the most heat. Put a smallish blob of solder on the first 3 pins furthest away from you (yes, solder bridge), and using the tip drag the blob towards you and onto more pins. If you have the heat right, the surface tension of the solder will leave perfectly soldered joints on the pins you are moving off of, and the blob will solder the pins you are starting to cover. You'll have to back up occasionally to pick the blob back up. After practice, I can solder a 208 pin QFP in about 2 minutes start to finish. If you screw up, DONT try to remove the part. You'll ruin the board, and the part too. If you must remove the part, use a dremel tool to cut the pins loose from the package, very carefully so you don't rip the traces off the board. Then desolder each pin individually (pretty easy). You can also heat one pin at a time, then bend it out of the way with tweezers. You'll ruin the part, but it's better than ruining the board. You can save the part by heating the underside of the board with a plumbing torch, then tapping the edge gently to dislodge the parts when the solder melts. Good luck! Clint PS If I was you, I'd try and find someone that does electronic assembly for a living, and give them twenty bucks to solder the parts on. For twenty bucks, they'd probably be willing to build the entire board for you, but you might enjoy that part of the work... On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Davison, Lee wrote: > > > Richard Cini wrote... > > > > So, here's the stupid question...how do I solder > > these things? Do I hold the iron parallel or perpendicular > > to the package leads? The board is pre-tinned, but I > > should I also tin the QFP leads? > > > > Neither. The best way to home solder these things is to use > > solder paste and a toaster oven, there's an article on > > www.seattlerobotics.org on how to do this. > > Actually you dont even need solderpaste, you can just tin the pads > > (_NOT_ the qfp, you'll bend the pins and have a real mess if you try that) > > after tha pads have been tinned, carefully align the QFP to the card and tack > solder the corner pins, using a excess of rosin flux. > > Now you put a lot of rosin flux on the leads and solder the QFP by heating the > card with a hot air gun from the back. once the solder melts, surface tension > will pull the chip into accurate alignment. a _gentle_ tap in the board with a > screwdriver will often help "settle" the part. It is easy to burn the card , > so I would suggest practicing on some old ISA cards with QFP parts. (you can > use the hot air gun to remove the parts also) > > You notice I mentioned an excess of flux. That is the key: Surface tension is > your friend here. > > Its even possible to solder BGA's this way, but a mistake with a BGA fatal to > the chip (unless you have a re-baller) > > > > > If you must use a soldering iron use a large bit (4.5 to 6 mm) > > and run along the edge of the tinned section, not quite touching > > the pins, and allow the solder to wick into the joints. Don't > > worry about solder bridges, these can be removed later with > > solder wick and a good flux. > > I use this method also and it works quite well, you can get much better > quality that by individual pin soldering. You can also remouve mos of the > extra solder by tilting the board, appling lots of flux, and gently running > the iron along the QFP edges, with the iron pointing up (so the solder runs > down from the board to the iron) > > > > > If you make a complete mess of it remove the chip using a > > hot air gun then clean the board with solder wick removing > > any left over flux with solvent and try again. > > > > Also use a soldering iron of at least 45W with a temperature > > controlled bit. > > > > The easiest way to practice is with the chips on scrap PC > > motherboards ... see they do have a use 8^)= > > > > Lee. > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---- > > This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The > > information contained in this email may contain information which is > > confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender > > and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. > > > > If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please > > delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International > > IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The > > service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive > > anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: > > http://www.star.net.uk > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Peter Wallace > Mesa Electronics > > From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Thu Jan 24 22:16:15 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: REALLY Re: Mastersport 386SX Message-ID: <20020125041855.YBQJ17815.imf26bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Dave Mabry > I used to have the computer he was referring to in the original post, a > Zenith MastersPort SX and it's AC adapter was an inline variety. Cords > on both ends. I never would have guessed it being called a wart. Having never seen the transformer/power supply/wart/whatever, I didn't know it was of the inline variety. Does anyone have the specs on this thing??? Glen 0/0 From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jan 24 22:20:24 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: HP87XM Message-ID: <15440.56584.653752.825586@phaduka.neurotica.com> Hi folks. I unearthed an HP87XM from my storage area and have been thinking of firing it up as a little diversion. Can anyone point me toward any programming reference info? Also...what are my mass storage options on this machine? It's got an HP-IB interface, and I've seen lots of HP-IB drives over the years...but what were commonly sold with this machine? Thanks, -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Jan 25 00:07:48 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: HP87XM References: <15440.56584.653752.825586@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <005501c1a566$9d60d260$7d2dcd18@Smith.earthlink.net> > Also...what are my mass storage options on this machine? It's got > an HP-IB interface, and I've seen lots of HP-IB drives over the > years...but what were commonly sold with this machine? You need to use drives following the AMIGO protocol. Here are the possibilities: Floppy drive models 82901M (5 1/4" AMIGO dual disk) 82902M (5 1/4" AMIGO single disk) 9121S (3 1/2" AMIGO single disk) 9121D (3 1/2" AMIGO single disk) Hard disk drive models 9134A (5MB AMIGO HDD) 9134B (10MB AMIGO HDD) 9134XV (15MB AMIGO HDD) Combo models 9133V (5M AMIGO HDD, 3 1/2" single disk) 9133XV (15M AMIGO HDD, 3 1/2 " single disk) ************** Many of these are regularly available on eBay and do not usually run much over $25. -W From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jan 25 00:25:47 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: HP87XM In-Reply-To: Re: HP87XM (Wayne M. Smith) References: <15440.56584.653752.825586@phaduka.neurotica.com> <005501c1a566$9d60d260$7d2dcd18@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <15440.64107.54364.942658@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 24, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > Also...what are my mass storage options on this machine? It's got > > an HP-IB interface, and I've seen lots of HP-IB drives over the > > years...but what were commonly sold with this machine? > > You need to use drives following the AMIGO protocol. Here are the possibilities: ... > Many of these are regularly available on eBay and do not usually run much over $25. Excellent, Wayne...I will go and check. Thanks! -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 24 22:30:36 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: IBM 3101 Dip Switches Configuration In-Reply-To: <15440.39812.784237.564987@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > On January 24, Doc wrote: > > If by "normal serial cable" you mean a standard port-to-modem cable, > > that is most likely your problem. You need to use a null-modem serial > > cable with a terminal. > > That depends *completely* on the terminal. Several even have both > DTE- and DCE-wired connectors. Oops. My mistake. I should have said "You need to use a null-modem serial cable with an unmodified IBM 3101 terminal" Doc From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Fri Jan 25 05:26:09 2002 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:07 2005 Subject: IBM 3101 Dip Switches Configuration Message-ID: I have the "IBM 3101 Display Terminal Description" document. It's about 1/2" thick and has the technical specs, functional description, setup and configuration, interface wiring diagrams (not schematics), character maps, etc... Normally, I'd offer it for free but since I'm recently umemployed, the new owner will have to buy me breakfast. $5.00 and it's yours! If anyone wants it, contact me off list. SteveRob >From: Doc >Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: IBM 3101 Dip Switches Configuration >Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 22:30:36 -0600 (CST) > >On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > On January 24, Doc wrote: > > > If by "normal serial cable" you mean a standard port-to-modem cable, > > > that is most likely your problem. You need to use a null-modem serial > > > cable with a terminal. > > > > That depends *completely* on the terminal. Several even have both > > DTE- and DCE-wired connectors. > > Oops. My mistake. I should have said "You need to use a null-modem >serial cable with an unmodified IBM 3101 terminal" > > Doc > > _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Jan 24 22:37:16 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: AT&T hardware In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yah, that's what I've gathered so far. It's based off of a 386SX and the 'SNA' terminal cards have a 186 processor connected to some sort of UART. Its hard drive is SCSI and has a pair of 5-1/4" half-height floppy drives. It runs through the diagnostic OK (with the exception that it can't use the hard disk), and I was hoping to try and do *something* interesting with it. Anyways, it's taking up space in my room and looking pretty for now. At some point, I plan on dumping its ROMs and perhaps reverse-engineering it a bit so I can figure out what I *can* still do with it. -- Pat On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Will Jennings wrote: > Pat, > Unless you have a need to control a bunch of 3270-emulating terminals, a > 6544 isn't a terrible useful thing to have. It's basically a non-IBM version > of a 3174, etc., which is a unit used to hook up many terminals to your > 3270-protocol host computer, be it mainframe or minicomputer. I don't know > what terminals the thing is meant for, since it beats me if AT&T's terminals > support 3270, but they probably do, though I'd imagine it doesn't use coax.. > Which, if that is true, might limit you to using AT&T terminals with it, > which is kinda crappy.. Hope that helps some > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > From claudew at videotron.ca Thu Jan 24 22:48:50 2002 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: NCD 88k xterm info anyone? Message-ID: <001801c1a55b$951876e0$6400a8c0@gamerclaude> Hello from mild and almost snowless Montreal... A recent find for $5. NCD 88k xterm, no keyboard, no ram, no monitor... Very little help on the web about this. I wanna try this out, I am not sure why... Anyways who knows the ram simms specs and where they go in this thing (unit came with no ram) I managed to get some "normal reaction" by putting a 1M simm in the inner most simm socket and 2 X 4M simms in the outter most sockets. I am saying "normal reaction" cause I have still not found a monitor that will produce stable output on this thing. I do see somekinda "unsync-ed" POST and looks like text appearing and scrolling on screen every approx 5 secs, imagine the term is looking to boot from somewhere... Who can tell me more about the video output specs? Looks like mono and my pinout seems ok 15,16,17 R,G,B and 26 TTL Vsync and 18 TTL Hsync from looking at it with a scope... Any help appreciated... Claude http://computer_collector.tripod.com From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jan 25 00:06:46 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: <200201241855.NAA15929@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Bryan Pope wrote: > > > The two I've found so far were engaged to be married. Damn them. > > Hopefully not to each other. :) > > hmmm... Two birds killed with one stone? That's two birds with no stones. 8-) Peace... Sridhar From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Jan 25 00:50:27 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: Friday's score... [kinda long?] In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467562@yalepress3.unipre ss.yale.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020124224952.00acea40@mail.zipcon.net> At 02:05 PM 1/24/02 -0500, you wrote: >Alternate Reality: The Dungeon >Alternate Reality: The City You lucky Bastage, I loved those games From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Jan 25 04:17:58 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: Friday's score... [kinda long?] In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467562@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <3C50DC76.15113.15922E7@localhost> Nice score ! Do you have 2 copies of the Koalapad disk or was that a typo ? If so e-mail me and we can likely make a trade. I have a bunch of Atari 800 stuff, some NIB. Lawrence > Well, for those curious, and those whom I said I would inform, here > is a list of (100lbs!) Commodore 128 and Atari 800 goodies I got courtesy of > Michael Brodt... (This list is for my own inventory purpose, as much as your > entertainment.) Snip > Legion > > Koalapad ^^^^^^^^^^^ > Jumpman > > Centioede > Wiz Of War > Koalapad ^^^^^^^^^^^ > MTV Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 25 02:46:03 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" References: Message-ID: <3C511B4B.6425B1FD@verizon.net> I looked at it, then checked your "me" page, then gave up. If you want auctions that automatically extend, you have that option as a seller on Yahoo. Pat Barron wrote: > > I happened across one of these recently, and have no real interest in > Microdata. So, I've listed the thing on eBay, check it out if > interested... > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1326034396 > > --Pat. From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 25 03:09:17 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: toshiba 6400sxc References: <001001c2c3fc$262db5e0$abb6fea9@mob0> Message-ID: <3C5120BD.B04FB0C5@verizon.net> Re: toshiba 6400sxc > where can I get a new bios for it ? try Toshiba > sTs wrote: > > where can I get a new bios for it ? From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Fri Jan 25 03:53:30 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: TSU05 Docs? Message-ID: <3C512B1A.43CA98F5@Vishay.com> Hello, does anybody out there have the docs available for the TSU05 controller board used in PDP-11s or VAXes with UNIBUS to connect to the DEC variant TS05 of the Cipher F880? The board is M7455, and I am looking for the meanings of the DIP switches. There must be CSR address and interrupt vector, each made up by several individual switches, but in addition to that, an "extended features" switch and one for "buffering". Thanks in advance! Andreas -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Fri Jan 25 04:00:35 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: I need PDP-11/34A Help Again (Suprise Suprise) Message-ID: <3C512CC3.545B0A44@Vishay.com> Owen, still interested in getting your PDP-11/34 to work? - I am just about to reassemble mine after relocation. RUN light off and display 000002 means the processor halted at memory location 2, so it has probably executed a HALT instruction (opcode 000000) from location 0. Try this: while holding the CNTRL button, press BOOT. This should launch the program from your ROM. Depending on which type you have (look for modules labeled M9301 or M9312 in slot 3 or 4, whatever is next to the processor), your milage may vary here. The console terminal should print four numbers in octal, followed by an "@" or a "$" as a prompt in a new line ("Dave, my mind is going..."). Depending on the ROM, you may need to enter either 773000G (standard start address and GO command, pressing the return key is _not_ required here) or a two-letter device code to boot. The bootstrap module may also be wired to boot from a predetermined device without asking. BTW: The DL11-W has 20mA drivers as well as RS-232. (Note the "1488" and "1489" chips being present as well as a number of transistors and other discrete components.) Which set is used depends on the cable: the plug will have some wire connections to code it for either 20mA current loop or RS-232 / V.24. If you have the original cable with the usual DB-25 connector, it should be OK: current loop used a completely different 6-pin "Mate-n-Lock" connector. For the settings at the terminal, I don't know your particular type, but with most DEC lines you should be best prepared if you use XON/XOFF handshake (for "Main Rcv Hndsk" / "Main Xmt Hdsk"). Since at PDP-11 times, the 8th bit was commonly used as a parity bit, set your terminal to ignore this. Otherwise, you may get garbage characters instead of about every second readable character. We may get this straight later, when we know what operating system you have. A RS-232 break signal can sometimes cause a PDP-11 to HALT (depending on settings on the DL11-W board), so you may want to avoid this... (perhaps by choosing an appropriate setting for the "Disconnect" option for now?) So much from memory. If you need more details, let me know, and I'll dig into the docs. Good luck, Andreas -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Fri Jan 25 04:10:06 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: BBC Master keyboard Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021A89@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Sent: 24 January 2002 23:33 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: BBC Master keyboard > > Normally such keyswitches come apart. I am not sure just what type is > used on the Beeb, but if they have round terminal pins then When I was key swapping to get a complete Master keyboard using a scrap machine I noticed the keyswitches were glued together and not clipped. I wanted to just swap over the plungers but had to swap over the whole switch instead. a From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 24 16:03:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: <005701c1a4e9$d03739e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jan 24, 2 08:14:26 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3323 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020124/8bde5e8b/attachment.ksh From west at tseinc.com Thu Jan 24 11:10:27 2002 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: More HP1000's References: Message-ID: <00e301c1a4fa$05aa2320$0101a8c0@jay> Yes, of course I would be happy to do that steven. I still own an ISP... but a different one than before. I would be happy to host any classiccmp material at no charge for list members. Contact me off list at west@tseinc.com and I'll get it set up for you. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Robertson" To: Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 8:23 AM Subject: Re: More HP1000's > BTW: Was thinking about getting a camera and taking some pictures of the > 1000s. If I take pictures, does anyone have the bandwidth and willingness to > host them? > > SteveRob > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > > From celt at chisp.net Fri Jan 25 06:52:15 2002 From: celt at chisp.net (Michael Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: 2 BMC CP/M Computers available Message-ID: <3C5154FF.5040906@chisp.net> Got this via email. Contact him at Excel1Star@cs.com if you can take them off his hands: >Hi, I have 2 BMC computers from the early 80's. They operate on CPM. >They >were neat in their day (still are). Two different models -- if-800 >based on 5 >inch floppy (has light pen, function keys, integrated printer) and the >other >one based on 8 inch floppy. I have FORTRAN compiler, SUPERCALC and some >other >software. I have boxes of CPM books. And some media too. >Would like to find a good home for them. I would like to make a tax >deductible contribution. Thanks Al Mike Tarnover - The Apple II Repository http://tarnover.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jan 25 07:17:48 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <3C50D1AA.190BE0AB@ccp.com> References: <200201250213.SAA12146@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <3C50D1AA.190BE0AB@ccp.com> Message-ID: >I seem to remember the 1902 and the Amiga 1080 were the same monitor, >but I could be wrong. The 1702 was a JVC monitor with commodore's name >on it. I rather like my 1080. I use it for everything from attaching it to my Amiga 1000 or 500 to using it with various game consoles or for displaying video sources such as VCR's, video cameras and anything else that it's multiple inputs will handle. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jan 25 07:40:49 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <61454.62.148.198.97.1011942592.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> References: <004501c1a4e9$1d5db420$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <004501c1a4e9$1d5db420$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020125073658.023bbf90@pc> At 09:09 AM 1/25/2002 +0200, Jarkko Teppo wrote: >The freight is a definite problem. I once bought a few HP9K/300 items >(total weight around ~400 grams) and with the freight and the currency >transfer the price tripled from the original $20. And I didn't choose >overnight UPS delivery either as it took something like a few months. >It almost seems cheaper to fly there :-) I've always thought that there was great potential in transoceanic transfer of old computer equipment. Right now, it all seems to flow out of the US to China. How much does it cost to send a cargo container from London to San Francisco? Aren't there computer stores or computer museums or computer clubs on both ends that could make it happen profitably? - John From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jan 25 08:07:18 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020125073658.023bbf90@pc> References: <004501c1a4e9$1d5db420$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <004501c1a4e9$1d5db420$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <5.0.0.25.0.20020125073658.023bbf90@pc> Message-ID: >I've always thought that there was great potential in >transoceanic transfer of old computer equipment. Right now, >it all seems to flow out of the US to China. I've traded stuff with people in the UK and Australia and the shipping wasn't too bad, but it was lighter stuff. I once sent a collector in the UK both a TRS-80 Videotex terminal and a TI-99/4A in return for a 48k Speccy, a Spectrum +2 and an Oric-1. Unfortunately I never received the +2 or Oric-1. I've had really good luck sending disks to as far away as Australia and Hungary. I tend to also move stuff quite a bit between the US and Canada. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 25 09:31:42 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: Apple II boards References: <004501c1a4e9$1d5db420$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <61454.62.148.198.97.1011942592.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: <00ad01c1a5b5$64113f00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I saw something on the news last evening that said there's some European airline that's selling tickets from London to somewhere on the continent for about $15. At rates like that, you might be right about it being cheaper to fly. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jarkko Teppo" To: Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 12:09 AM Subject: Re: Apple II boards > Richard Erlacher said: > > If they're popular enough in .fi, perhaps we can save a few landfills > > from them by sending 'em to interested parties there. > > I'm not sure about other interested parties but I've always wanted > one. Maybe some day... > > > > > An Apple IIe is not uncommonly priced at $5 around here (I just bought > > one that had a couple of drives bundled with it for $8, though all I > > wanted was the PSU) . A IIc is not uncommon at that price either. > > It's been a while since I saw more than one ][+ in the same store, but > > those seldom cost more than $10, and usually closer to $5. I would > > estimate that the freight would exceed that amount by quite a little > > bit. Disk drives are often together with these units, though that > > propels their cost into the $10-$12 range. > > > > The freight is a definite problem. I once bought a few HP9K/300 items > (total weight around ~400 grams) and with the freight and the currency > transfer the price tripled from the original $20. And I didn't choose > overnight UPS delivery either as it took something like a few months. > > It almost seems cheaper to fly there :-) > -- > jht > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 25 08:09:31 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: HP87XM In-Reply-To: <15440.56584.653752.825586@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020125090931.007e1c00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Dave, At 11:20 PM 1/24/02 -0500, you wrote: > > Hi folks. I unearthed an HP87XM from my storage area and have been >thinking of firing it up as a little diversion. Can anyone point me >toward any programming reference info? Try www.ebbsoft.com > > Also...what are my mass storage options on this machine? It's got >an HP-IB interface, and I've seen lots of HP-IB drives over the >years...but what were commonly sold with this machine? Commonly used a 82901/82902 5 1/4" floppy drive but a 9121 3.5" works and is much faster (Hint: you HAVE to use 720k disks in the 91xx drives, a 1.44 disks will not work). I MAY support the 9122, I'm not sure. I think it will support the 9153 hard dive. It will also support the 9895 8" floppy drive. The 87 XM is a fine machine, and was the top of the line for the HP 85 series. Joe > > Thanks, > -Dave > >-- >Dave McGuire >St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jan 25 08:10:07 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: REALLY Re: Mastersport 386SX In-Reply-To: <20020125041855.YBQJ17815.imf26bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> References: <20020125041855.YBQJ17815.imf26bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: > > From: Dave Mabry > >> I used to have the computer he was referring to in the original post, a >> Zenith MastersPort SX and it's AC adapter was an inline variety. Cords >> on both ends. I never would have guessed it being called a wart. > >Having never seen the transformer/power supply/wart/whatever, I didn't know >it was of the inline variety. Makes sense though since most laptops tend to use the inline type vice the wall-wart. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From taylor at cem.nrl.navy.mil Fri Jan 25 08:24:40 2002 From: taylor at cem.nrl.navy.mil (Douglas Taylor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: REALLY Re: Mastersport 386SX In-Reply-To: <20020125041855.YBQJ17815.imf26bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020125091955.00b0f3e8@crystal.nrl.navy.mil> At 11:16 PM 1/24/2002 -0500, you wrote: > > From: Dave Mabry > > > I used to have the computer he was referring to in the original post, a > > Zenith MastersPort SX and it's AC adapter was an inline variety. Cords > > on both ends. I never would have guessed it being called a wart. > >Having never seen the transformer/power supply/wart/whatever, I didn't know >it was of the inline variety. > >Does anyone have the specs on this thing??? > >Glen >0/0 I have one of these at home, I'll take a look and then post the answer. I do recall that the power cord that plugs into the laptop has a simple coaxial plug. This turns out to be a common point of failure since it is very easy to break the power connection by bumping the plug while it is in the jack. The jack is soldered to a pc board in the laptop and is not very strong mechanically. Doug From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jan 25 08:16:27 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: Friday's score... [kinda long?] In-Reply-To: <3C50DC76.15113.15922E7@localhost> References: <3C50DC76.15113.15922E7@localhost> Message-ID: > Nice score ! Do you have 2 copies of the Koalapad disk or was that a typo ? >If so e-mail me and we can likely make a trade. I have a bunch of Atari 800 >stuff, some NIB. At least for the Atari 8bits, wasn't the software for the Koalapad on cartridge? Or was it available in both formats? I've got 'Koala Painter' in cartridge format from Island Graphics. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 25 08:25:06 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: HP2671G + fax paper In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020125092506.007e9d90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Tony, At 10:46 PM 1/24/02 +0000, you wrote: >I have an HP2671G thermal printer. It uses paper that's about 8.5" wide. >I have a little of the official HP paper, but only as fanfold. Continuous >roll paper would be more convenient, since the paper roll fits inside the >printer mechanism. > >Does anyone know if it's possible to use the thermal paper rolls sold for >fax machines? Yes, it works fine. FWIW I'm using a 2671 on my Integral PC. It's not offically supported on the IPC but it works fine. Is it worth buying one to try, or is it certainly not going >to work (or worse still, damage the printhead). Is there any difference, >other than dimensions, between the paper rolls sold for different models >of fax machine? I have no idea. I just grabbed a roll of the stuff that I had for my fax machine and it works fine. If so, any ideas as to what might work? I don't know but if I were you I'd save that HP fanfold paper. That's the only thing that you can use in the HP 98-somethig-something printer and it's next to impossible to find. Joe > >Thanks in advance for any comments > >-tony > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 25 08:33:06 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: I'm Baack! In-Reply-To: <200201242233.g0OMXi111310@shell1.aracnet.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020125093306.007eac30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:33 PM 1/24/02 -0800, you wrote: >> I guess I only thought I'd get out of this hobby. Last week I got this >> in the mail. This is from >> a deal that I've had working for over a year. I've got it running and it >> works nice! > >My condolences, and here I thought you were going to be an insperation to us >all and prove that it is possible to recover from the classic computer >addiction! :^( I guess it just goes to prove everyone here is doomed ! I'm afraid so. But I have cut back to four classic computers, HP 85, HP 9825, MDS-800 and HP IPC. Damm, I'm forgotton how big my house was when it's not full of computers. Joe > >Welcome back :^) > > Zane > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 25 08:56:50 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: MDS-888 Re: was WTH is this? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020125095650.007d2cd0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:48 PM 1/24/02 EST, you wrote: >The rectangular boxes are relays, look like mercury wetted contact relays. > >The Bus is some sort of lab instrumentation and control. I am not sure what >it is called. It is familiar with me too. I have seen quite a few similar >cards in the past. > >Paxton >Astoria, OR > >PS Nice to see you back. Nice MDS you got. What cards? 8080 CPU, monitor card, 2x 16k memory cards, 202 double density floppy controller (2 cards) and ICE-80 pod with two card controller set. But the coolest card is a Zendex model 908 EPROM programmer card. It's a Maultibus card but it's taller than normal and sticks out of the top of the shassis. Along the top of the card it has 8 ZIF sockets for EPROMs. It can program 8 EPROMs (2716, 2732 or 2732A) at one time. BUT you can also use it as a standalone programmer. You can take it out of the chassis and connect it to the computer via RS-232, connect a 5V power supply and operate it that way. I did get the software and manuals for it too. :-) I'll take a picture of the Zendex card and post it this afternoon. I'll post it at Software: Besides ISIS-II, I got MS BASIC (version 1.0), PL/M-80 compiler, ASM-80 Macro-Assembler. Games: StarTrek Version 2.0), Othell(o), chess, advent(ure), master(mind) and black box. Utilities: ICE 80, ICE 85, ICE 48, UPM, and ZPP for operating the EPROM programmer. BTW the label on it says that it's a model MDS-888. Does anyone know exactly what an 888 is? Joe From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 25 09:09:23 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E00@BUSH02> Message-ID: <005501c1a5b2$45e0b2c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I suppose the distinction is that in the microcomputer market, at least at the time of the Apple ][+, the PL259 connector was commonly used on what people could afford to buy to go with their budget microcomputer. The most common monitor I remember seeing in use, and often as part of a display in the local computer store, was the 9" (?) Sanyo "security" monitor that was about the same height as two of the Apple disk drives, one atop the other. That whole setup was placed on top of the Apple case and that's how one saw them in the stores and on the desktop or credenza. I'd say that it is quite possible that BNC's were in use at the time, though, not working in the video industry myself, I didn't see that sort of equipment much, though I did see what was being used in computer labs, etc. What I saw was the PL259's, which is what was common on the large monitors used in the classrooms and in security systems that distributed video signal. If BNC's were in wide use in the video industry, I didn't see it because that sort of equipment was too costly to show up in the microcomputing environment. After all, if one had the budget for expensive video gear, one didn't have to use an Apple computer. It didn't make sense to use a computer costing $1500, when one could afford a monitor costing $15k. If you had that sort of money, you'd get a "real" computer. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Davison, Lee" To: Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 1:40 PM Subject: RE: Bell & Howell Apple II update > > > Monitors of the time, at least of the NTSC-compatible > > type, were typically equipped with PL-259 connectors > > on the rear. > > Not true, at least in the video industry. > > >By the time consumer video equipment became popular, > > the PL-259, which was also common in the '70's for other > > 75-ohm applications e.g. antennas and the like, had been > > replaced by the 'F' types in video hookups, since those > > were MUCH cheaper. > > The PL-259 was in use primarily for carrying VHF and UHF > signals, not baseband video. > > The PL259/SO259 was originally designed in the 1940's to carry > the then high resolution 3.5MHz 405 line baseband video signal. > They remained as the connector of choice, at least in europe, until > the 70's when the more compact BNC took over. Patch pannels > were, and are still, mostly Musa as they are easy to (un)plug > even when packed closely. > > As I said, I may be sorry to have chimed in on this nearly > off-topic conversation, but when I see blanket statements > being made that are obviously incorrect I have a hard time > remaining silent. > > Ah, ok. 8^)= > > Lee. > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The > information contained in this email may contain information which is > confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender > and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. > > If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please > delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International > IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The > service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive > anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: > http://www.star.net.uk > ________________________________________________________________________ > > From allain at panix.com Fri Jan 25 09:26:21 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E00@BUSH02> <005501c1a5b2$45e0b2c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <007801c1a5b4$a4fc9ec0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Once again, Please be quiet. From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Jan 25 09:31:49 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: <005501c1a5b2$45e0b2c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jan 25, 02 08:09:23 am Message-ID: <200201251531.KAA11198@wordstock.com> And thusly Richard Erlacher spake: > > > If BNC's were in wide use in the video industry, I didn't see it because that > sort of equipment was too costly to show up in the microcomputing environment. > After all, if one had the budget for expensive video gear, one didn't have to > use an Apple computer. It didn't make sense to use a computer costing $1500, > when one could afford a monitor costing $15k. If you had that sort of money, > you'd get a "real" computer. > Yeah, and this exact same mentality helped to kill the Amiga! Yes the Amiga was used in a lot of TV stations, but they were mostly Ch. 3 cable companies. Maybe Commodore should have gold-plated the plugs and sold them for 10x the price. Cheers, Bryan From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jan 25 10:04:02 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: <200201251531.KAA11198@wordstock.com> References: <200201251531.KAA11198@wordstock.com> Message-ID: >Yeah, and this exact same mentality helped to kill the Amiga! Yes the Amiga >was used in a lot of TV stations, but they were mostly Ch. 3 cable companies. >Maybe Commodore should have gold-plated the plugs and sold them for 10x the >price. Judging from posts on Usenet and eBay, it would appear that a lot of people are now deciding to get rid of the big-box machines such as the 2000, 3000, and 4000. A lot of them appearing for sale lately. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Jan 25 09:45:16 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1B4@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > > I have a 50-75 ohm converter, I believe. I'll need to dig it up. > No, you don't need it (or want it). The monitor's input > impedance will be > 75 ohms as well (it's a standard for composite video). So all > you need is > a piece of 75 ohm cable, a 75 ohm BNC plug for the computer end and > whatever plug fits your monitor's input... Oops. :) I see now. Thanks. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 25 09:21:17 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) References: <3.0.1.32.20020124154618.0147b728@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <005f01c1a5b3$efbc2b20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, before the release of Win95, I used Mosaic, on which both Netscape and Internet Explorer freely admit they're based. Before that, I used ICOMM, which was a sort of local shell for use with *NIX shell accounts. It also worked just fine, for the time, since there wasn't so much graphic razzle-dazzle. When Netscape was released, it required a third-party "WINSOCK" module that one had to buy from someone, normally "Trumpet" and that P*SSED me off, since I'd previously been able to work with a free version. I did give Netscape a try for a month or three months or whatever the "free trial period" for the Trumpet winsock module was, but that turned out to be a poor choice next to the entirely free and entirely functional Internet Explorer betas that were out by that time. Since I was using a shell account, as well as a full-service account with Netcom, I tried out the Netscape, and the Mosaic, AND the early Internet Explorer, in contrast to NetCruiser, which seemed to work better than any of the others in the context of the Netcom environment, understandably. None of them caused nearly so much trouble as the Nestcape/Trumped combo, and when the Trumped winsock trial expired, I flushed it and didn't look back. The only people I know still using Netscape today are the chronic Microsoft-haters, who couldn't look objectively at the situation if their lives hung in the balance. From where I sit, there are several options in the browser market, the most commonly used of which is Internet Explorer. There are a few others, of which Netscape/AOL appears to be the least satisfactory of the bunch. I'll admit, my position is based on opinion and circumstance, but, before I go to using Netscape, I'd have to look at Mosaic again. Internet Explorer is getting a mite heavy from all the creeping featurism, but maybe some other browser will press the M$ folks to clean things up. I doubt it will be AOL, however. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Merchberger" To: Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 1:46 PM Subject: Re: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) > Rumor has it that Richard Erlacher may have mentioned these words: > > >I wish my browsing were as fast as the other things I do under Windows! > >Nearly anything is over before I get my finger off the key. Note > that > >I said key, and not mouse button. Unfortunately, the Windows browser doesn't > >work as well with keys as the rest of the GUI. One CAN learn to use the > >keyboard, though. > > Hell, *everything* I do is fast -- Winders & Linux! [[ahem... I have a > dual-processor Athlon MP 1600+ -- dual SCSI, dual LAN, etc... so I realize > this isn't a fair fight... ;-) ]] > > [[ also see comments below from a different poster(s) ]] > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Owen Robertson" > >To: > >Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 12:21 PM > >Subject: Re: PayPal = payola? > > > > > >> on 1/24/02 12:59 PM, Doc at doc@mdrconsult.com wrote: > >> > >> > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > >> > > >> >> Since AOL bought Netscrape, they've done more to kill it than M$ ever > >did. > > Amen. Which is too bad, because IMNSHO, Netscape always was better... > > >> >> I'll be glad when it's finally gone, along with AOL, though. > >> > > >> > AMEN! I dunno about the Windows version, but NS 6 for Linux is a > >> > buggy farce of a resource hog. Netscape was one of the front runners in > >> > developing a Linux port of their mainstream application, and the Linux > >> > port was always at least as stable as the Windows one. If that's still > >> > true, Netscape is headed for the dumper. The quality & stability of the > >> > Netscape suite has declined almost since the day AOL bought 'em. "More > >> > features! Screw debugging!" > > Hmmm... dunno about the Mac version, but they've *really* improved the > Winders & Linux versions - 6.0 *just* *plain* *sucked* - and not just any > sucked - it sucked canal water rectally... ;-) It was slower than molasses > in January, as well... > > 6.1 didn't add a single feature - all they did is clean up bugs & speed it > up. 6.2 cleaned up some more, but they still had a few, hence 6.21. I've > only found one bug in 6.21, and that's trying to get rid of that idiot tab > feature in the mail program sometimes locked the application. After 3 or 4 > tries, I was successful, and it's not crashed since. I usually keep it > running for a week at a time, and it usually crashes once or twice a month, > much less than Exploder 5.5 and seems to be faster as well, on Win2k. [At > work, I have a Celery 450] The linux port is just as stable, and a lot of > webpages (like my Yahoo Mail) look better on the new Netscape vs. IE 5.x. > > I don't even have Netscape 4.x installed anymore... That's how stable 6.21 is! > > As an install, Netscape 6.x is still smaller than IE6 as well, and IE is > still half-built-in to Winders... > > Laterz, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > > If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead > disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. > > From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Jan 25 09:44:12 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <005f01c1a5b3$efbc2b20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jan 25, 02 08:21:17 am Message-ID: <200201251544.KAA13394@wordstock.com> And thusly Richard Erlacher spake: > > > When Netscape was released, it required a third-party "WINSOCK" module that > one had to buy from someone, normally "Trumpet" and that P*SSED me off, since > I'd previously been able to work with a free version. I did give Netscape a > try for a month or three months or whatever the "free trial period" for the > Trumpet winsock module was, but that turned out to be a poor choice next to Trumpet WinSock was needed with Windows 3.1 because it did not have a TCP/IP stack. I remember every ISP I used at that time provided a free copy of Trumpet WinSock. For a good *small* memory footprint browser now, try Opera. Cheers, Bryan From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 25 09:24:01 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: WTH is this? References: Message-ID: <006501c1a5b4$51089da0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I considered the possibility that they'd be relays, but the packages don't look like any relay I've ever used. They look, both in shape and in color, like lots of resistor networks I've used, however. I'd suspect that Analog Devices might have some information, though. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Finnegan" To: Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 1:56 PM Subject: Re: WTH is this? > > > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > It looks like an Analog input board, but the ADC may be missing, judging from > > the location of the empty socket. The red or orange (maybe they're green ... > > I'm "chromatically challenged") devices appear to be resistor arrays. There's > > Actually, considering they look 'tall' and are labeled as K1, K11, etc, > I'd expect those to be relays. Considering the relays and the size of > the heatsinks on those TO-202/TO-220 looking devices, I'd anticipate the > board is some sort of control module. > > > a number on that board, and there's a name, i.e. Analog Devices. I'd try to > > chase that down with them, if possible. > > > > I've seen that shape of board before, but can't place it. > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Joe" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 12:10 PM > > Subject: WTH is this? > > > > > > > Does anyone have any idea what this card is for? > > > When I picked it up I > > > thought it was a Multibus card but a closer look reveals that it's (1) too > > > tall, (2) too narrow, (3) The large connector at the bottom has 100 > > > contacts instead of 86, (4) the narrow connector has 40 pins instead of 60 > > > and it sticks down too far. > > > > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > > From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Jan 25 09:34:51 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: Free software & AT&T 6300+ Docs Message-ID: More office cleaning. Most of the software disks are in unopened packages. Free for postage from Chicago: 1 copy Borland Brief ("The Programmer's Editor"), MS-DOS, Disks & Docs, 3 pounds 1 copy Borland Brief ("The Programmer's Editor"), OS/2, Disks & Docs, 3 pounds (The original packages had both MS-DOS and OS/2 disks. I found 1 set of disks and 2 sets of docs, so I'm making one OS/2 package and one MS-DOS package). 2 copies Borland Quatro Pro 1.0 SE, MS-DOS, Disks & Docs, 3 pounds @ 1 copy WordPerfect 5.2 for Windows, Docs & disks, 8 pounds 1 copy Code Warrior Starter Kit 7, Mac w/68020 & System 7.1, 2 CD's, 1 pound AT&T 6300 Plus (80286 CPU) Docs & Disks (13 pounds in all): MS-DOS User's Guide (sorry, no disks) Getting Started (w/Tutorial, Mouse & Customer Diagnostic disks) Hardware Reference Manual (w/lots of motherboard logic diagrams) Service Manual (w/System Diagnostics disk) Please reply off-list to robert_feldman@jdedwards.com. FIFO. From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Jan 25 09:51:26 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards References: Message-ID: <00bf01c1a5b8$4f1c3a20$f28c70d8@default> I second the last statement about the to collect monitors, printers, and etc., I too have tons of these items but hope to trim it to just the working items this summer. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 10:22 AM Subject: Re: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > When I closed up my office, I could find people who wanted everything > > else, from old magazines and newspapers, books, files of clippings, > > internal documents, schematics, even marketing materials from defunct > > companies, furniture, empty binders with company names on the spines, > > computers, unidentifiable circuit boards, 8 inch drives, Syquest drives, > > modems, weird cables, T shirts, trade show freebie crap, . . . > > That's not so strange when you consider all this material will be (if it > isn't already) highly historic and useful for research in the future > (which is why I took all that "crap" :) > > > I had a very difficult time getting anybody to take FREE monitors and FREE > > printers. The only way that I could get anybody to take them was to start > > boxing them up with S100 cards, etc. and making unbreakable package deals. > > Well, I also collect various printers, monitors, and terminals. I'm > weird. But boring as they are, it's all part of the record, and needs > preserving. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Jan 25 10:04:43 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1B5@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] > Well, I also collect various printers, monitors, and terminals. I'm > weird. But boring as they are, it's all part of the record, and needs > preserving. Monitors and terminals are a necessity. Printers aren't. That doesn't mean that I won't have printers, but they need to be more impressive. I have a Genicom, for instance, which I've kept due to its unique ability to survive the direct impact of a locomotive. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jan 24 21:16:02 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) References: <200201251544.KAA13394@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <3C50CDF2.C0A8F97@jetnet.ab.ca> Bryan Pope wrote: I use netscape because the 'other' brand lets too many viruses in. I still like IE 3 best. > For a good *small* memory footprint browser now, try Opera. Tried that once , but the graphics routines has a problem of writing red lines everywhere on my system. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 25 10:23:44 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: <200201251531.KAA11198@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <000f01c1a5bc$a9007a20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> That's how the MAC came to be a competitor of the PC instead of the Commodores. You pick your market with your pricetag. There were published rumors of the original proposed cost of the MAC, in 1985, suggesting it would be <$1000. However, Apple decided that, though they would have made typical profits on the sub-$1K price by going after the big-blue market, they not only added a clear $3k to their profits, but were playing in the major league. The Amiga didn't need to be gold-plated, it just needed a price appropriate for its intended market. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Pope" To: Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 8:31 AM Subject: Re: Bell & Howell Apple II update > And thusly Richard Erlacher spake: > > > > > > If BNC's were in wide use in the video industry, I didn't see it because that > > sort of equipment was too costly to show up in the microcomputing environment. > > After all, if one had the budget for expensive video gear, one didn't have to > > use an Apple computer. It didn't make sense to use a computer costing $1500, > > when one could afford a monitor costing $15k. If you had that sort of money, > > you'd get a "real" computer. > > > > Yeah, and this exact same mentality helped to kill the Amiga! Yes the Amiga > was used in a lot of TV stations, but they were mostly Ch. 3 cable companies. > Maybe Commodore should have gold-plated the plugs and sold them for 10x the > price. > > Cheers, > > Bryan > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jan 25 10:25:18 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <200201251544.KAA13394@wordstock.com> References: <200201251544.KAA13394@wordstock.com> Message-ID: >Trumpet WinSock was needed with Windows 3.1 because it did not have a TCP/IP >stack. I remember every ISP I used at that time provided a free copy of >Trumpet WinSock. I recall the same thing. A lot of people had trouble setting it up as well, even with most ISP's still using static IP addresses. >For a good *small* memory footprint browser now, try Opera. Opera's great. They just released the final version of Opera 5 for the Mac. I've got both it and Netscape running to see what the footprint difference is, both displaying the same page as the first page since the browser was opened, and Opera is at 14.4MB and Netscape is at 20.6MB. That could mean quite a difference after the browser has been opened a while and a lot of pages viewed. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jan 24 21:45:10 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: <200201251531.KAA11198@wordstock.com> <000f01c1a5bc$a9007a20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3C50D4C6.A97477E2@jetnet.ab.ca> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > That's how the MAC came to be a competitor of the PC instead of the > Commodores. You pick your market with your pricetag. There were published > rumors of the original proposed cost of the MAC, in 1985, suggesting it would > be <$1000. However, Apple decided that, though they would have made typical > profits on the sub-$1K price by going after the big-blue market, they not only > added a clear $3k to their profits, but were playing in the major league. > > The Amiga didn't need to be gold-plated, it just needed a price appropriate > for its intended market. No it needed to develop user APPS not just games. 640x200 dots are the low end of computers and the high end of TV. Even the latest new game box is that res - TV output. Real users don't use a TV for output - they what a real computer screen and that is what killed it. I don't buy you pick your market with your price tag, I say too cost cutting corners hurts your product. If that was the case all computers would still be milti-million dollar time shared computers with 110 baud dial up. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 25 14:21:29 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: <200201251531.KAA11198@wordstock.com> <000f01c1a5bc$a9007a20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3C50D4C6.A97477E2@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <003c01c1a5dd$df8e87a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You've lost me here, Ben. see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Franchuk" To: Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 8:45 PM Subject: Re: Bell & Howell Apple II update > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > That's how the MAC came to be a competitor of the PC instead of the > > Commodores. You pick your market with your pricetag. There were published > > rumors of the original proposed cost of the MAC, in 1985, suggesting it would > > be <$1000. However, Apple decided that, though they would have made typical > > profits on the sub-$1K price by going after the big-blue market, they not only > > added a clear $3k to their profits, but were playing in the major league. > > > > The Amiga didn't need to be gold-plated, it just needed a price appropriate > > for its intended market. > > No it needed to develop user APPS not just games. 640x200 dots are the > low > end of computers and the high end of TV. Even the latest new game box > is that res - TV output. Real users don't use a TV for output - they > what a real computer screen and that is what killed it. > What do you mean here, Ben? The PC didn't use a TV for output, and the MAC didn't use TV for output. The Amiga could, I suppose, use TV output, but it could do it at resolution much better than 640x200, and had a full range of colors at a time when the MAC and PC didn't. > > I don't buy, "you pick your market with your price tag." I say too [much] cost > cutting corners hurts your product. If that were the case, all computers > would still be multi-million dollar time shared computers with 110 baud > dial up. > First of all, within any market segment, investment in improved technology increases market share. That doesn't apply over different market segments, however. DEC, for example, stayed with "old" technology, charging WAY more than "new" technology prices for it for years. They typically lagged two generations behind in technology, yet exceeded costs of "leading edge" systems by a couple of orders of magnitude. Just compare the cost and features of the PC/AT clones sold in, say, '87-88 with a similarly equipped microVAX-II. The PC/AT would typically cost about $800 bucks, while a similarly equipped uVaxII cost nearly $100K, partly for the stuff the PC/AT had, and partly for what you had to add in order to have the stuff the PC/AT had. Inside a year, the power cost alone exceeded the PC/AT, yet folks LOVED the microVax and hated the PC/AT clone, that ran half-again as fast. If that DEC gear hadn't been so expensive, nobody would have bought it for sale to their government clients, since there would have been more profit in the PC/AT route. > > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jan 24 23:18:33 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: <200201251531.KAA11198@wordstock.com> <000f01c1a5bc$a9007a20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3C50D4C6.A97477E2@jetnet.ab.ca> <003c01c1a5dd$df8e87a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3C50EAA9.7744766C@jetnet.ab.ca> Richard Erlacher wrote: > What do you mean here, Ben? The PC didn't use a TV for output, and the MAC > didn't use TV for output. The Amiga could, I suppose, use TV output, but it > could do it at resolution much better than 640x200, and had a full range of > colors at a time when the MAC and PC didn't. I don't remember much about the Amiga but TV video was a big aspect because community channels would often use them for display devices. Local football team plays sunday... girlguides are selling cookies... place your message here. What I really remember is that dumb bouncing ball demo. What I remember about the Mac was it only had 128k memory,since I had a Dr Dobbs magazine on upgrading one to 512k. > First of all, within any market segment, investment in improved technology > increases market share. That doesn't apply over different market segments, > however. DEC, for example, stayed with "old" technology, charging WAY more > than "new" technology prices for it for years. They typically lagged two > generations behind in technology, yet exceeded costs of "leading edge" systems > by a couple of orders of magnitude. Just compare the cost and features of the > PC/AT clones sold in, say, '87-88 with a similarly equipped microVAX-II. The > PC/AT would typically cost about $800 bucks, while a similarly equipped uVaxII > cost nearly $100K, partly for the stuff the PC/AT had, and partly for what you > had to add in order to have the stuff the PC/AT had. Inside a year, the power > cost alone exceeded the PC/AT, yet folks LOVED the microVax and hated the > PC/AT clone, that ran half-again as fast. If that DEC gear hadn't been so > expensive, nobody would have bought it for sale to their government clients, > since there would have been more profit in the PC/AT route. That is true but at one time DEC was competitive with technology and price, then the suits took over. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 25 18:48:41 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: <003c01c1a5dd$df8e87a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jan 25, 2 01:21:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 481 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020126/2b52ce22/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jan 25 13:11:07 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: <007801c1a5b4$a4fc9ec0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, John Allain wrote: > Once again, Please be quiet. Did you have somebody specific in mind, or did you want the entire list to silence? From allain at panix.com Fri Jan 25 14:01:22 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: Message-ID: <025501c1a5db$1071d140$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> No, not even this Subject. The previous post was from Richard again on his point on BNC not being used in video. While a second (enough!) reading of it shows Some aspects of giving in on the issue, the idea that someone would press on is ludicrous. BNC Is the connector of choice for analog video, just not home video. John A. From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 25 14:28:32 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: <025501c1a5db$1071d140$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <004801c1a5de$db93bde0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yeah, John, the BNC is definitely the connector of choice for the application. However, since there was in 1978, no specific market for microcomputer monitors, people used what they could buy, and, at the time, that meant, largely, closed-circuit TV (e.g. security system) monitors, which, for the most part, at the time, used the PL/SO 259 and not the BNC. I don't know why this was the case, but it was. If you take a look at the old magazines e.g. BYTE, Kilobaud, etc, targeted at the microcomputer market, you'll see plenty of monitors with SO-259's on the back, and very few with BNC's. They might have been available on video production studio equipment, but that stuff was VERY expensive, into six figures, anyway, back then, and most microcomputer stores didn't want to tie up that kind of money in inventory that nobody could afford anyway. Perhaps you could take time to read the entire post, rather than concluding it says what you want it to say, John. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 1:01 PM Subject: Re: Bell & Howell Apple II update > No, not even this Subject. The previous post was from Richard > again on his point on BNC not being used in video. While a > second (enough!) reading of it shows Some aspects of giving > in on the issue, the idea that someone would press on is ludicrous. > BNC Is the connector of choice for analog video, just not home video. > > John A. > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 25 14:08:43 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:08 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: <200201250153.g0P1rTm10046@ns2.ezwind.net> from "Chris" at Jan 24, 2 08:53:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1794 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020125/6f5d8483/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 25 18:04:52 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: <005501c1a5b2$45e0b2c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jan 25, 2 08:09:23 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1106 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020126/d2bafa5b/attachment.ksh From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 25 11:04:49 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: Apple II boards References: <004501c1a4e9$1d5db420$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <004501c1a4e9$1d5db420$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <5.0.0.25.0.20020125073658.023bbf90@pc> Message-ID: <3C519031.4CD84FE3@verizon.net> > computer museums ... could make it happen profitably? Are you advocating organizations registered, or presenting themselves, as non profit organizations making a profit ? Like this one? ... http://www.threedee.com/jcm/about/index.html http://www.threedee.com/jmosn/ http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/jfoust@threedee.com/ John Foust wrote: > > At 09:09 AM 1/25/2002 +0200, Jarkko Teppo wrote: > >The freight is a definite problem. I once bought a few HP9K/300 items > >(total weight around ~400 grams) and with the freight and the currency > >transfer the price tripled from the original $20. And I didn't choose > >overnight UPS delivery either as it took something like a few months. > >It almost seems cheaper to fly there :-) > > I've always thought that there was great potential in > transoceanic transfer of old computer equipment. Right now, > it all seems to flow out of the US to China. > > How much does it cost to send a cargo container from > London to San Francisco? Aren't there computer stores > or computer museums or computer clubs on both ends that > could make it happen profitably? > > - John From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jan 25 11:16:27 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: Non-profit reselling In-Reply-To: <3C519031.4CD84FE3@verizon.net> References: <004501c1a4e9$1d5db420$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <004501c1a4e9$1d5db420$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <5.0.0.25.0.20020125073658.023bbf90@pc> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020125110612.023b2208@pc> At 12:04 PM 1/25/2002 -0500, Ian Koller wrote: >> computer museums ... could make it happen profitably? >Are you advocating organizations registered, or presenting >themselves, as non profit organizations making a profit ? >Like this one? ... > http://www.threedee.com/jcm/about/index.html > http://www.threedee.com/jmosn/ > http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/jfoust@threedee.com/ Who's representing themselves as non-profit? Not me. I have web-only "museums". If you want to visit, you probably have to promise to buy lunch and I'll walk you into the basement for the guided tour. Watch out for spiders and centipedes. Nowhere do I state that I or these museums are non-profit. Are you aware that some museums are for-profit corporations? In fact, even a "non-profit corporation" under US IRS law, and under Wisconsin law that I've researched, can perform a fair amount of fundraising, buying and resale (that is, public sales dedicated to making money). You are limited to the number of days per year you do it, and to total annual amounts, and that the profits go to the group and not an individual. This explains, for example, how an otherwise non-profit organization can hold a rummage sale twice a year. All of my for-pay consulting, sales, writing, junk buying and reselling is under the umbrella of Syndesis Corporation, a for-profit S-corp since 1987. So yes, I encourage for-profit reselling of old computer equipment, whether it's by me or a computer club. http://www.threedee.com/jcm/rescue/index.html is much more explanatory than the links you mentioned, and http://www.threedee.com/news/history.html is much more entertaining. I once researched this because at the UW-Madison / State of Wisconsin surplus sales, non-profits can shop a day before the public. This would allow me to pick up the good stuff ahead of the usual suspects. I seem to remember that the threshold was about $15,000 a year, but resale was limited to a few days a year. My antique computer buying and reselling could stay below that limit. (Technical bonus question: does an eBay auction count as 1 day or N days?) Also, I'd have to pay about $500 to set up a true non-profit corporation, and I'd need to recruit a legit Board to administer it. I've never gone to the trouble. - John From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jan 24 21:58:18 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: Non-profit reselling References: <004501c1a4e9$1d5db420$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <004501c1a4e9$1d5db420$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <5.0.0.25.0.20020125073658.023bbf90@pc> <5.0.0.25.0.20020125110612.023b2208@pc> Message-ID: <3C50D7DA.9688512C@jetnet.ab.ca> John Foust wrote: > My antique computer buying and reselling could stay > below that limit. (Technical bonus question: does an eBay > auction count as 1 day or N days?) Also, I'd have to pay > about $500 to set up a true non-profit corporation, and > I'd need to recruit a legit Board to administer it. > I've never gone to the trouble. I would say N days. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 25 13:49:34 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: Non-profit reselling References: <004501c1a4e9$1d5db420$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <004501c1a4e9$1d5db420$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <5.0.0.25.0.20020125073658.023bbf90@pc> <5.0.0.25.0.20020125110612.023b2208@pc> Message-ID: <3C51B6CE.6A4F1468@verizon.net> > So yes, I encourage for-profit reselling of old computer > equipment, whether it's by me or a computer club. Personally, I have no problem with this, but it would seem to make the museum or club actually a dealer. And this I also have no problem with, as long as the members of the "for profit" computer club themselves are not anti-commerce. Gunther Schadow had an auction on eBay, and he had some kind of "thing" about someone buying his item who might want to make a little money on it. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=1299238961 So obviously, Gunther hates resellers. But he is a MD. And around here MD's charge for their services, which makes them dealers in medical services. Should everyone therefore reciprocate by hating all MD's. Before Gunther, we would have said no. After Gunther, well, you reap what you sow. The point is that everyone is a dealer in something, be that services or goods ( which is still actually a service, i.e. that of providing goods ). Those that hate someone else because it keeps them from getting what they want without any sacrifice on their own part are showing themselves to be selfish free loaders. Just something to consider. John Foust wrote: > > At 12:04 PM 1/25/2002 -0500, Ian Koller wrote: > >> computer museums ... could make it happen profitably? > >Are you advocating organizations registered, or presenting > >themselves, as non profit organizations making a profit ? > >Like this one? ... > > http://www.threedee.com/jcm/about/index.html > > http://www.threedee.com/jmosn/ > > http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/jfoust@threedee.com/ > > Who's representing themselves as non-profit? Not me. I have > web-only "museums". If you want to visit, you probably have > to promise to buy lunch and I'll walk you into the basement > for the guided tour. Watch out for spiders and centipedes. > Nowhere do I state that I or these museums are non-profit. > Are you aware that some museums are for-profit corporations? > > In fact, even a "non-profit corporation" under US IRS law, > and under Wisconsin law that I've researched, can perform > a fair amount of fundraising, buying and resale (that is, > public sales dedicated to making money). You are limited > to the number of days per year you do it, and to total annual > amounts, and that the profits go to the group and not an > individual. This explains, for example, how an otherwise > non-profit organization can hold a rummage sale twice a year. > > All of my for-pay consulting, sales, writing, junk buying and > reselling is under the umbrella of Syndesis Corporation, a > for-profit S-corp since 1987. So yes, I encourage for-profit > reselling of old computer equipment, whether it's by me or a > computer club. http://www.threedee.com/jcm/rescue/index.html > is much more explanatory than the links you mentioned, and > http://www.threedee.com/news/history.html is much more > entertaining. > > I once researched this because at the UW-Madison / State of > Wisconsin surplus sales, non-profits can shop a day before > the public. This would allow me to pick up the good stuff > ahead of the usual suspects. I seem to remember that the > threshold was about $15,000 a year, but resale was limited > to a few days a year. > > My antique computer buying and reselling could stay > below that limit. (Technical bonus question: does an eBay > auction count as 1 day or N days?) Also, I'd have to pay > about $500 to set up a true non-profit corporation, and > I'd need to recruit a legit Board to administer it. > I've never gone to the trouble. > > - John From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 25 05:59:46 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: Non-profit reselling In-Reply-To: <3C51B6CE.6A4F1468@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote: > Just something to consider. Ian, consider this: you are annoying and off-topic. Go away and come back with something relevant to say. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 25 15:36:28 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: Non-profit reselling References: Message-ID: <3C51CFDC.A98F5373@verizon.net> Sellam, Or is it Sam? http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/1998-05/0760.html Do you for a minute think I give a shit about what you want or what you think? Wake up and smell the coffee pal. I actually consider it a serious possibility your vcf is a front for your business, and you are just running a scam. So piss the fuck off asshole. Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote: > > > Just something to consider. > > Ian, consider this: you are annoying and off-topic. Go away and come back > with something relevant to say. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Jan 25 16:18:26 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: Non-profit reselling In-Reply-To: <3C51CFDC.A98F5373@verizon.net> from "Ian Koller" at Jan 25, 02 04:36:28 pm Message-ID: <200201252218.RAA02418@wordstock.com> And thusly Ian Koller spake: > > > > or what you think? Wake up and smell the coffee pal. I actually > consider it a serious possibility your vcf is a front for your > business, and you are just running a scam. So piss the fuck off > asshole. > So what if it is a business?! If Sellam wasn't doing VCF, there would not have been a show last July in Boston! A lot of people (myself included) would not have been able to see a working PDP computer running Space War. And not to mention all the other exhibits! Oh there is also all the speakers he had... I volunteered to help in the show. Why? Because I love old computers and would do most anything to help this type of event. Did Sellam make money off me because he didn't have to pay me? I don't give a flying f*** if he did. This is about the classic computers. Is he promoting retro-computing? Yes! Is he ripping people off in the process? NO! Anyways, that is my take on it. Cheers, Bryan > > > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote: > > > > > Just something to consider. > > > > Ian, consider this: you are annoying and off-topic. Go away and come back > > with something relevant to say. > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > From allain at panix.com Fri Jan 25 18:49:11 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: Non-profit reselling References: <200201252218.RAA02418@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <007601c1a603$45c5fb00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> One more vote for Sellam. The show was decent for the turnout, several exhibitors had equipment I thought I'd never see again. The speakers were excellent, of A+ quality. My financial involvement was this: bought two tickets, one t-shirt, drove 1200 miles, no kick-back required. The DEC thinnet repeater and IBM portable are considered great deals at $6/both. And Bryan, you deserved a free sandwich at the very least. John A. From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jan 25 16:36:51 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: Non-profit reselling In-Reply-To: Re: Non-profit reselling (Ian Koller) References: <3C51CFDC.A98F5373@verizon.net> Message-ID: <15441.56835.423855.488344@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 25, Ian Koller wrote: > Sellam, > > Or is it Sam? > > http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/1998-05/0760.html > > Do you for a minute think I give a shit about what you want > or what you think? Wake up and smell the coffee pal. I actually > consider it a serious possibility your vcf is a front for your > business, and you are just running a scam. So piss the fuck off > asshole. I can FEEL the love around here. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 25 14:46:02 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: Non-profit reselling In-Reply-To: <3C51B6CE.6A4F1468@verizon.net> References: <004501c1a4e9$1d5db420$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <004501c1a4e9$1d5db420$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <5.0.0.25.0.20020125073658.023bbf90@pc> <5.0.0.25.0.20020125110612.023b2208@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020125154602.007dee20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:49 PM 1/25/02 -0500, Ian wrote: > > > >> So yes, I encourage for-profit reselling of old computer >> equipment, whether it's by me or a computer club. > > > Personally, I have no problem with this, but it would >seem to make the museum or club actually a dealer. And >this I also have no problem with, as long as the members >of the "for profit" computer club themselves are not >anti-commerce. > > Gunther Schadow had an auction on eBay, and he had some >kind of "thing" about someone buying his item who might >want to make a little money on it. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=1299 238961 Quoted from Gunther's auction >> "Woops! I should have noted earlier that I'm going to cancel bids from people who are obviously ebay resellers and take advantage of a sluggish economy to stock up. I sell with NO RESERVE and would hate to have a good deal not go to an end-user. Especially with DEC stuff." Hmmm. Since he obviously didn't make this cable then doesn't that make him an E-bay reseller? Doesn't that stkike anybody else as being hypocritical? Joe From jss at subatomix.com Fri Jan 25 11:35:50 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: TSU05 Docs? In-Reply-To: <3C512B1A.43CA98F5@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <20020125113306.E9918-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > does anybody out there have the docs available for the TSU05 controller > board used in PDP-11s or VAXes with UNIBUS to connect to the DEC variant > TS05 of the Cipher F880? Whoever has the docs, could you put them online or get them to someone who can? I also could use the docs to the TSU05. Also: When were the TS05 and its controllers released? I'm guessing mid-80s. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 25 12:28:07 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" References: Message-ID: <3C51A3B7.5D265F6F@verizon.net> Hello Pat, If you read these links, it gives other "perspectives" on the issue of sniping. I guess you don't like sniping, because you would like to get the best price you could for your items. This we do respect. http://www.geocities.com/phillipcreed/myths.html http://www.geocities.com/phillipcreed/ http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/supersniper/ But the ones who complain that they didn't win an item because someone sniped them, we have no respect for what so ever. No one ever lost an item because someone out bid them. They lost the item because they didn't bid the high bid utilizing the "proxy" bidding system. Period. These are people that want to blame others for their own failures which they themselves brought about. They seem to act like the world owes them something, when in reality, their failure is brought on because they are too cheap and selfish. They want what other people have, but are unwilling to give much of themselves to get it. A note to all. You'll win whatever item you bid on, if you put in the high bid while the auction is running, regardless of when that bid is placed. As for the ones that complain about prices of goods being sold on eBay as being so high, these people have been deemed unsuitable for employment in our organization for being too ignorant of commerce and economics. It's indicative of serious flaws in personality, attitude, and intelligence. Generally things on eBay often sell for a third to an eighth ( and sometimes even 1/25 ) of what they are actually worth, and we have hard data to prove that fact. So any that end up out of work, just know, we'll learn more about what you're really like by reading the messages you've posted, than we'd ever learn in an interview. And we do research prospective applicants in this manner. Thanks Google. Pat Barron wrote: > > On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote: > > I looked at it, then checked your "me" page, then gave up. > > > > If you want auctions that automatically extend, you have > > that option as a seller on Yahoo. > > I'm sorry that put you off; I've been thinking about toning down or > eliminating that section, but I haven't done anything about it yet because > this is a really sore point with me - it's particularly aimed at people > who run "outbid-bots", that track auctions and place bids in (literally) > the final 15 or 30 seconds of the auction, to ensure that the previous > high bidder has no chance to rebid. > > In a "real" auction, the auction generally continues until activity > ceases; if that's doable on Yahoo! Auctions (like the old Onsale.com > system, in which a bid in the last 5 minutes of an auction automatically > extended it), then that might be a better option for me. Though I haven't > listed anything there for a long time, because I've had the impression > that very few people use Yahoo! Auctions (as opposed to eBay).... > > Thanks, > --Pat. From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 25 14:43:02 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > Hmmm. I guess then an xBox being sold at a price above the MSRP is not > 'too high' of a price. Or the example of dead UPS's being sold for $50 a > pop. Or a CISC AS/400 being sold for $140k. Sorry, but a lot of the time > things are available for much lower prices outside of eBay than they are > on eBay. Ignorant people go around buying and selling things for much > more than they're worth on eBay. In no way limited to eBay. Several years ago I went shopping for a 7.25", .75hp circular saw. A "Skil Saw", in Texas slang. I really don't care if they're shiny, so I hit the local hock shops for a couple of Saturdays. MSRP was either $69.95 or $79.95. After 3 days of looking, and a tank of gas or so, I had located 4 saws that matched spec. The best deal I could make wwas $32 cash & carry (real cash, shop ate taxes) on a saw that was well-spattered with paint, only had one [very good] patch in the power cord, and no blade (cheap all-purpose blade=~$6) I went to Home Depot and bought a Craftsman 7.25" .75hp saw, with AP blade & spare carbide plywood blade, for $29.95. Wait. Frgot the 36month warranty. I did, however, in the shopping weekend, aquire a $200 Gerber "BMF" diving knife, in mint condition, for $40. I do commonly see construction tools and guns in pawnshops and second-hand stores priced at 125-200% their NEW value. Mostly, it doesn't rot on the shelves, either. The point is, it's worth EXACTLY what gets paid for it. Doc, whose $0.05 is worth more.... From donm at cts.com Fri Jan 25 17:43:56 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > > > Hmmm. I guess then an xBox being sold at a price above the MSRP is not > > 'too high' of a price. Or the example of dead UPS's being sold for $50 a > > pop. Or a CISC AS/400 being sold for $140k. Sorry, but a lot of the time > > things are available for much lower prices outside of eBay than they are > > on eBay. Ignorant people go around buying and selling things for much > > more than they're worth on eBay. > > In no way limited to eBay. > Several years ago I went shopping for a 7.25", .75hp circular saw. A > "Skil Saw", in Texas slang. I really don't care if they're shiny, so I > hit the local hock shops for a couple of Saturdays. MSRP was either > $69.95 or $79.95. > After 3 days of looking, and a tank of gas or so, I had located 4 saws > that matched spec. The best deal I could make wwas $32 cash & carry > (real cash, shop ate taxes) on a saw that was well-spattered with paint, > only had one [very good] patch in the power cord, and no blade (cheap > all-purpose blade=~$6) > I went to Home Depot and bought a Craftsman 7.25" .75hp saw, with AP > blade & spare carbide plywood blade, for $29.95. Wait. Frgot the > 36month warranty. Are you sure that you did not lose your way and go into a Sears store in error? Craftsman is after all a trademark by Sears! - don > I did, however, in the shopping weekend, aquire a $200 Gerber "BMF" > diving knife, in mint condition, for $40. > I do commonly see construction tools and guns in pawnshops and > second-hand stores priced at 125-200% their NEW value. Mostly, it > doesn't rot on the shelves, either. > > The point is, it's worth EXACTLY what gets paid for it. > > Doc, whose $0.05 is worth more.... > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jan 25 15:14:18 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: Sniing was Re: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020125153833.007d5a00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3C51A3B7.5D265F6F@verizon.net> <3.0.6.32.20020125153833.007d5a00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > I COMPLETELY agree! My personal opinion: E-bay is for people that are >too lazy to search out there own bargains. Example: I've found TWO Having been an avid thrift-store visitor for years, I can say that I'm finding much more in the way of interesting classic computer items on eBay than I ever have locally. One gets tired of finding mostly Commodore and Apple II stuff after a while and little else. In fact, most of the items I've been given for nothing or very little were due to people finding my web page and contacting me. On the other hand, some items, such as the Amiga prototypes that Dave Haynie recently put up for auction, couldn't be had any other way regardless of how much you looked. The fact is, eBay has it's uses and each individual must determine on their own how to use it best for what they want. You're correct though that if a person doesn't agree with it's use, then they shouldn't do so. There are other avenues. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 25 15:55:16 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: E-bay sniping. References: <3.0.6.32.20020125151207.007dfac0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3C51D444.4C6C4639@verizon.net> Joe, After reading your three messages, it seems you also see the disparity. There is one point that the author of that page about sniping did not seem to consider. If auctions did automatically extend, but in each extension period, the minimum increment doubled, it could autoextend, yet still come to an end fairly quickly. Because of the sniping issue, I feel that eBay can't really be held as a true measure of the value of things. Only in auctions that had a chance to "settle" at the highest price someone was willing to pay for something, would it be valid measurement tool, of that aspect only of an overall market system, also keeping in mind the terms, i.e. untested, "as-is", tested, guaranteed, etc. The on-line auctions run by the GSA use a proxy bidding system, and also have an autoextend feature. Bear in mind that their prices are not a true measure of actual value either, because some of what they sell is broken damaged stuff, and you don't know what is what until you've bought it. They also don't entertain complaints. Joe wrote: > > Ian, > > I don't like sniping but I understand why it's done. Good info, I'm > keeping a permanent copy of it. > > Joe > > At 01:28 PM 1/25/02 -0500, you wrote: > > > > > >Hello Pat, > > > > If you read these links, it gives other "perspectives" on > >the issue of sniping. I guess you don't like sniping, because > >you would like to get the best price you could for your items. > >This we do respect. > > > > > >http://www.geocities.com/phillipcreed/myths.html > > > >http://www.geocities.com/phillipcreed/ > > > >http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/supersniper/ > > > > > > But the ones who complain that they didn't win an item because > >someone sniped them, we have no respect for what so ever. No one > >ever lost an item because someone out bid them. They lost the item > >because they didn't bid the high bid utilizing the "proxy" bidding > >system. Period. These are people that want to blame others for their > >own failures which they themselves brought about. They seem to act > >like the world owes them something, when in reality, their failure > >is brought on because they are too cheap and selfish. They want what > >other people have, but are unwilling to give much of themselves to > >get it. > > > > A note to all. You'll win whatever item you bid on, if you put > >in the high bid while the auction is running, regardless of when > >that bid is placed. > > > > > > As for the ones that complain about prices of goods being > >sold on eBay as being so high, these people have been deemed > >unsuitable for employment in our organization for being too > >ignorant of commerce and economics. It's indicative of serious > >flaws in personality, attitude, and intelligence. Generally > >things on eBay often sell for a third to an eighth ( and > >sometimes even 1/25 ) of what they are actually worth, and > >we have hard data to prove that fact. So any that end up out > >of work, just know, we'll learn more about what you're really > >like by reading the messages you've posted, than we'd ever learn > >in an interview. And we do research prospective applicants > >in this manner. Thanks Google. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Pat Barron wrote: > >> > >> On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote: > >> > I looked at it, then checked your "me" page, then gave up. > >> > > >> > If you want auctions that automatically extend, you have > >> > that option as a seller on Yahoo. > >> > >> I'm sorry that put you off; I've been thinking about toning down or > >> eliminating that section, but I haven't done anything about it yet because > >> this is a really sore point with me - it's particularly aimed at people > >> who run "outbid-bots", that track auctions and place bids in (literally) > >> the final 15 or 30 seconds of the auction, to ensure that the previous > >> high bidder has no chance to rebid. > >> > >> In a "real" auction, the auction generally continues until activity > >> ceases; if that's doable on Yahoo! Auctions (like the old Onsale.com > >> system, in which a bid in the last 5 minutes of an auction automatically > >> extended it), then that might be a better option for me. Though I haven't > >> listed anything there for a long time, because I've had the impression > >> that very few people use Yahoo! Auctions (as opposed to eBay).... > >> > >> Thanks, > >> --Pat. > > From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Jan 25 13:39:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" In-Reply-To: <3C51A3B7.5D265F6F@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote: > > > Hello Pat, > > As for the ones that complain about prices of goods being > sold on eBay as being so high, these people have been deemed > unsuitable for employment in our organization for being too > ignorant of commerce and economics. It's indicative of serious > flaws in personality, attitude, and intelligence. Generally > things on eBay often sell for a third to an eighth ( and > sometimes even 1/25 ) of what they are actually worth, and > we have hard data to prove that fact. So any that end up out > of work, just know, we'll learn more about what you're really > like by reading the messages you've posted, than we'd ever learn > in an interview. And we do research prospective applicants > in this manner. Thanks Google. Hmmm. I guess then an xBox being sold at a price above the MSRP is not 'too high' of a price. Or the example of dead UPS's being sold for $50 a pop. Or a CISC AS/400 being sold for $140k. Sorry, but a lot of the time things are available for much lower prices outside of eBay than they are on eBay. Ignorant people go around buying and selling things for much more than they're worth on eBay. I personally have no problem with bid sniping. I've done it myself a number of times. The problem lies in the fact that some people do not have enough FINANCIAL RESOURCES to be bidding 2x what something is worth on eBay. As a college student that has just been laid off from my job at Purdue (!) I know what it's like. Sure, there are a lot of good deals to be had on eBay, but there are also plenty of bad deals. My $0.02 cents ($0.03 cdn) -- Pat Finnegan From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jan 25 14:22:45 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Hmmm. I guess then an xBox being sold at a price above the MSRP is not >'too high' of a price. Or the example of dead UPS's being sold for $50 a >pop. Or a CISC AS/400 being sold for $140k. Sorry, but a lot of the time >things are available for much lower prices outside of eBay than they are >on eBay. Ignorant people go around buying and selling things for much >more than they're worth on eBay. There are still quite a lot of good deals to be had on there though, especially items outside of the computer area. As has also been mentioned on this list, it has also opened up avenues for people to aquire things that they normally don't see in their area. It's up to the individual buyer/seller to do the research ahead of time and know what the item is actually worth and then decide what it is worth to them individually. >I personally have no problem with bid sniping. I've done it myself a >number of times. The problem lies in the fact that some people do not >have enough FINANCIAL RESOURCES to be bidding 2x what something is worth >on eBay. As a college student that has just been laid off from my job at >Purdue (!) I know what it's like. Sure, there are a lot of good deals to >be had on eBay, but there are also plenty of bad deals. I snipe because there's no other way of getting an item at a reasonable price unless you happen to get lucky. The people I can't stand are the ones who bid early and then spend the next few days in a price war with somebody, driving the price to totally rediculous levels. Of course, the buyers love it. The way I see it, eBay can't be compared to a normal auction because regular auctions don't allow open bidding, with the bid available for all to see, for a week or more. Closed-bid auctions do, but that's a totally different animal. You've got to be a fool to place a bid on something at the beginning of a 9 day auction on eBay and think you're going to get it. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jan 25 14:39:18 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" In-Reply-To: References: < Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020125143539.02378bf8@pc> At 03:22 PM 1/25/2002 -0500, Jeff Hellige wrote: >You've got to be a fool to place a bid on something at the beginning of a 9 day auction on eBay and think you're going to get it. No, that's the sport and entertainment value of eBay. It's ingenious. You underestimate the vast hordes of people using eBay. You can sometimes win at low prices. I've sold a number of classic computer items where the first early bidder won. For example, I recently sold a set of circa 1987 white Amiga ROM Kernal manuals for $1.50. It was almost $11 to ship them to the UK. - John From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jan 25 15:19:22 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020125143539.02378bf8@pc> References: < <5.0.0.25.0.20020125143539.02378bf8@pc> Message-ID: >At 03:22 PM 1/25/2002 -0500, Jeff Hellige wrote: >>You've got to be a fool to place a bid on something at the >>beginning of a 9 day auction on eBay and think you're going to get >>it. > >No, that's the sport and entertainment value of eBay. >It's ingenious. You underestimate the vast hordes of >people using eBay. You can sometimes win at low prices. I guess that's my problem....I don't bid on there for sport or entertainment I don't agree with those who enjoy the bidding frenzies either, which is why I do what I can to circumvent them. I don't complain when I've lost something to someone else and I know what I'm after long before I place the bid. For me, it's just a means to an end and I know my limits. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 25 14:38:33 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: Sniing was Re: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" In-Reply-To: References: <3C51A3B7.5D265F6F@verizon.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020125153833.007d5a00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Guys, Can I throw in my 2 cents worth? > > >Hmmm. I guess then an xBox being sold at a price above the MSRP is not >'too high' of a price. Apparntly not. I've seen the same thing at flea-markets and other "live" events. BUT one of the things that affect this is the fact that the MSRP aren't the same eveywhere. I used to collect HP calculators but I almost never bought any from E-bay. Why? Because calculators that sold new in this country (USA) for say $250 sold for twice as much in Europe and other places simply due to the import tariffs that their countries charge. As result, I might be willing to pay say $150 for the same model used but someone in Europe is happy to pay $300 or more. Well above the MSRP. In short there are lots of factors that affect the price more than MSRP. It all goes back to the law of supply and demand. Where HP 9825s are common and cheap in this country, they're rare and expensive in Europe. Or the example of dead UPS's being sold for $50 a >pop. Did you ever stop to consider that the buyer might know somehing that you don't? Perhaps he is knowledgeable on that model and knows that 90% of the "dead" ones can be fixed by changing an internal fuse even when the manufacturer claims that "there are no user serviceable parts inside". Or a CISC AS/400 being sold for $140k. Sorry, but a lot of the time >things are available for much lower prices outside of eBay than they are >on eBay. I COMPLETELY agree! My personal opinion: E-bay is for people that are too lazy to search out there own bargains. Example: I've found TWO Altairs in the last three years. Both of them were FREE. OTOH I could have bought one from E-bay and paid a rediculous price for it. Don't get me wrong, there are some great bargains to be had on E-bay but I'm sick and tired of people complaining about E-bay prices. It just like shopping at Sears, if you think their price is too high THEN DON'T SHOP THERE. Ignorant people go around buying and selling things for much >more than they're worth on eBay. Wrong! It takes at least two bidders to push the price up. Therefore at least two people think that it's worth that much. I wouldn't pay $100,000+ for a Rolls-Royce but that down't mean they aren't "worth" it. > >I personally have no problem with bid sniping. I've done it myself a >number of times. The problem lies in the fact that some people do not >have enough FINANCIAL RESOURCES to be bidding 2x what something is worth >on eBay. That's fact of life, Get used to it! That's like complaining because you can't afford a Rolls-Royce and someone else can. As a college student that has just been laid off from my job at >Purdue (!) I know what it's like. Sure, there are a lot of good deals to >be had on eBay, but there are also plenty of bad deals. But no one is forcing you to buy those bad deals. So take the good ones and leave the rest. That's how you "win" on E-bay. Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 25 13:59:14 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <10201242324.ZM15385@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jan 24, 2 11:24:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 340 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020125/6ac13065/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 25 14:29:51 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards References: Message-ID: <005401c1a5df$0aaec340$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've got plenty of potentially refillable cartridges for old daisywheel printers that probably aren't worth much any more. Those probably fit in the same category. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 12:59 PM Subject: Re: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards > > > > On Jan 24, 15:34, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > > Lawrence LeMay said: > > > > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 > > > > perhaps... > > > > > > Old printer ribbons. > > > > No, you can re-ink printer ribbons :-) > > Not if they're the 'single strike' carbon film type, as used in my old > Sanders 12/7 printer. > > -tony > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jan 25 15:08:05 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > No, you can re-ink printer ribbons :-) > Not if they're the 'single strike' carbon film type, as used in my old > Sanders 12/7 printer. But, if you can't get new ribbons, you CAN replace the carbon film ribbon in that cartridge. It sure is hard, though, to convince SOME people to not throw them into the trash. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 25 14:17:20 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: HP87XM In-Reply-To: <15440.56584.653752.825586@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Jan 24, 2 11:20:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1560 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020125/7e9f6d1f/attachment.ksh From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Jan 25 15:16:35 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: Friday's score... [kinda long?] In-Reply-To: References: <3C50DC76.15113.15922E7@localhost> Message-ID: <3C5176D3.17663.2072371@localhost> I was just assuming it was on disk. The only thing I can use my Koalspad with is Geos. I knew it could be used with the 8-bit Ataris but never ran across an interface. I have a 12"x12" similiar pad from Chalkboard Inc. called Powerpad. It also could be used on an Atari or C64 and VIC20. It was geared towards kids and had overlays and 25 carts (don't know how many were vaporware) for the particular modules such as music or art programs. I have 2 of the modules for Commodore but again not for Atari. I've often fantasized of using it with a proper interface as a giant Koalapad. It would be great for Koala art. Lawrence > > Nice score ! Do you have 2 copies of the Koalapad disk or was that a typo ? > >If so e-mail me and we can likely make a trade. I have a bunch of Atari 800 > >stuff, some NIB. > > At least for the Atari 8bits, wasn't the software for the > Koalapad on cartridge? Or was it available in both formats? I've > got 'Koala Painter' in cartridge format from Island Graphics. > > Jeff > -- > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.cchaven.com > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From walgen at e-Spirit.de Fri Jan 25 15:21:48 2002 From: walgen at e-Spirit.de (Walgenbach, Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: Request for Review ... Message-ID: <81BDC19FEA82D311A83900A024F2457F2A7C3C@osiris.e-spirit.de> Hi! any help finding out what items are missing from my want list (and of course from my collection) would be VERY APPRECIATED! Want-List: http://www.homecomputer.de/pages/f_want.html Have-List: http://www.homecomputer.de/pages/f_gallery.html Please note that this list only covers HOMEcomputer and not micro/business-computer although the destinction is of course not that easy to make - at least I have a kind of "working-definition": http://www.homecomputer.de/pages/faq.html#items Stefan. www.HomeComputer.de From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Jan 25 15:39:18 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: OT: Pricing (was RE: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook") Message-ID: I've done price searches on the 'net for things I want to buy (an airbrush and a portable SW radio, in particular), and found prices ranging from about 50% MSRP to 125% MSRP. Wherever you go, it's still buyer beware (and be aware). Bob -----Original Message----- From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 2:43 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" In no way limited to eBay. I do commonly see construction tools and guns in pawnshops and second-hand stores priced at 125-200% their NEW value. Mostly, it doesn't rot on the shelves, either. The point is, it's worth EXACTLY what gets paid for it. Doc, whose $0.05 is worth more.... From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Jan 25 00:47:33 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: OT: Pricing (was RE: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook") References: Message-ID: <3C50FF85.2CA0A697@jetnet.ab.ca> "Feldman, Robert" wrote: > > I've done price searches on the 'net for things I want to buy (an airbrush > and a portable SW radio, in particular), and found prices ranging from about > 50% MSRP to 125% MSRP. Wherever you go, it's still buyer beware (and be > aware). > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 2:43 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" > > > In no way limited to eBay. > > I do commonly see construction tools and guns in pawnshops and > second-hand stores priced at 125-200% their NEW value. Mostly, it > doesn't rot on the shelves, either. > > The point is, it's worth EXACTLY what gets paid for it. > > Doc, whose $0.05 is worth more.... These guys nickels http://www.wooden-nickel.com/ -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 25 15:54:17 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: RT 6150 Lives! (Long!) Message-ID: Meanwhile, back at the ranch.... The IBM RT I was given last weekend turned out to be configured with: Enhanced Advanced 032 processor, which is hardwired with 16MB of RAM. No Advanced Floating-Point Accelerator, drat it all. Extended Monochrome Display adapter (1024x768) w/6155 mono display Ungerman-Bass Baseband [ethernet] adapter Streaming Tape Drive Adapter - RT interface for 6157 1/4 tape drive No tape drive or cable 1 5.25" DSHD floppy drive 3 E70 70MB ESDI hard disks - 2 dead as dirt. 1 SIIG 8-bit Serial/Parallel adapter, c.1998, which prevents booting Keyboard I was able to find archived images of AIX v2.2.1 (which, interestingly enough, I may be able to use *legally*. IBM permits their AIX instructors to run AIX on personal machines for private/non-commercial machines. I'm NOT gonna call Mr. Wolden and ask....) The archive includes VRM, BOS and Extended Utilities, all IBM's updates & patches, the NFS add-ons, man pages (IBM *still* provides the man pages as a separate product!), TCP/IP, and some GNU stuff. And the all-important Diags disk set. NOTE: If you ever have to work on an IBM workstation, as soon as you get the case open, get a paper clip, solder pick, fountain pen, or other not-very-sharp object, and gouge a couple of knuckles with it. Bleeding directly onto the machine is not necessary, but every IBM I've ever worked on required the ritual blood sacrifice before booting. The machine booted to the Diags just fine, after I pulled the serial adapter. There I discovered that the keyboard has several dead keys (well, two, but the Escape key counts triple), that the RT wants ++ to reboot, and that the display must be powered up before the computer. Everything but the 2 dead E70 drives and the keyboard checked out. There are numerous refernces to the use of IDE drives in the RT newsgroup. Although AIX actually will install in 70MB, it leaves little room to play in. Plus, that one E70 alone was warming my house and whining loudly enough to make my cats cry. Final verdict: they're right, but I saw some glitches I haven't seen documented. You need a "dumb" ISA IDE/floppy controller. It must be set to secondary IDE and primary floppy. Any serial/parallel/game ports will probably have to be disabled. The RT will boot from a secondary IDE controller, if you satisfy the drive specs. On mine, even aftetr removing the ESDI controller, setting the IDE card to primary causes the machine to freeze on boot. Drive specs: A Seagate Medalist IDE drive. Period. Some posts suggest that small Quantum or Conner drives will work, but not boot. The WD, Quantum, and Maxtor drives I tried weren't detected at all. The Conner 340MB was detected and passed, but I haven't tried booting it. The Seagate ST3250A Medalist is booting quite nicely as hd(1,0). I did try an ST32122A 2G, and it installed OK and booted fine once. After that, it drops into maintenance mode on boot, with unrecoverable errors. Mount claims that the filesystem devices don't exist. I'm not convinced that wasn't due to operator error during install. Still to do: Find vi. I haven't installed the Extended set yet. Please Gods don't make me use ed. Set up TCP/IP networking. Just got the TCP/IP set installed last night, and configuration is waiting on vi. I hope. I've been offered a copy of 4.4BSD/Romp for it, which I may try out. I'd like to try AOS, but I can't find the full distribution, just the tools, updates, and diagnostic utilities. Find a mouse. Suck it up, gird my loins, and try repairing the keyboard. I may try using stty to remap the dead keys till I have a backup kbd. Yee-Haw. I now have AIX v2.2.1, toys, tools & updates, on 5.25 floppy! Doc From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Jan 25 16:52:47 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: RT 6150 Lives! (Long!) Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1BF@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Doc Shipley [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > I was able to find archived images of AIX v2.2.1 (which, > interestingly > enough, I may be able to use *legally*. IBM permits their AIX > instructors to run AIX on personal machines for private/non-commercial > machines. I'm NOT gonna call Mr. Wolden and ask....) The archive > includes VRM, BOS and Extended Utilities, all IBM's updates & patches, > the NFS add-ons, man pages (IBM *still* provides the man pages as a > separate product!), TCP/IP, and some GNU stuff. And the all-important > Diags disk set. Any idea what the version overlap (if any) is between RT and RS/6000? In other words, are there any versions that would boot on either machine? This is just curiosity for now. > every IBM I've > ever worked on required the ritual blood sacrifice before booting. Most machines require that occasionally. > You need a "dumb" ISA IDE/floppy controller. It must be set to > secondary IDE and primary floppy. Any serial/parallel/game ports will > probably have to be disabled. The RT will boot from a secondary IDE Heh. :) Maybe for a project you could get the game ports working? ;) > Still to do: > Find vi. I haven't installed the Extended set yet. Please > Gods don't > make me use ed. Until I read that, I was going to suggest that you could just use ed. > Yee-Haw. I now have AIX v2.2.1, toys, tools & updates, on 5.25 > floppy! Congratulations. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jan 25 17:22:11 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: RT 6150 Lives! (Long!) In-Reply-To: RT 6150 Lives! (Long!) (Doc Shipley) References: Message-ID: <15441.59555.404619.114262@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 25, Doc Shipley wrote: > There are numerous refernces to the use of IDE drives in the RT > newsgroup. Although AIX actually will install in 70MB, it leaves little > room to play in. Plus, that one E70 alone was warming my house and > whining loudly enough to make my cats cry. Oh wow...I didn't know you could do that. I have a 6150 here (from BSD Bob) that I'd love to stick some more disk in. I will have to investigate this further. :) > I've been offered a copy of 4.4BSD/Romp for it, which I may try out. > I'd like to try AOS, but I can't find the full distribution, just the > tools, updates, and diagnostic utilities. I'm running 4.4BSD on mine. It's a really neat machine. I just got a megapel board for it (thanks Gordon!) and now I need to find a tube and a mouse. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Jan 25 20:17:16 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: RT 6150 Lives! (Long!) Message-ID: <9f.21aa2999.29836bac@aol.com> In a message dated 1/25/2002 6:28:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, mcguire@neurotica.com writes: << On January 25, Doc Shipley wrote: > There are numerous refernces to the use of IDE drives in the RT > newsgroup. Although AIX actually will install in 70MB, it leaves little > room to play in. Plus, that one E70 alone was warming my house and > whining loudly enough to make my cats cry. Oh wow...I didn't know you could do that. I have a 6150 here (from BSD Bob) that I'd love to stick some more disk in. I will have to investigate this further. :) > I've been offered a copy of 4.4BSD/Romp for it, which I may try out. > I'd like to try AOS, but I can't find the full distribution, just the > tools, updates, and diagnostic utilities. I'm running 4.4BSD on mine. It's a really neat machine. I just got a megapel board for it (thanks Gordon!) and now I need to find a tube and a mouse. >> Mine runs AIX 2.2.1, but just in mono and I need a 6157 controller card so I can use my tape drive. I think my RT has a 286 development board in it and I have the software to run it still wrapped up. I might have to power it up and see what i've been missing. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jan 25 20:31:23 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: RT 6150 Lives! (Long!) In-Reply-To: Re: RT 6150 Lives! (Long!) (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) References: <9f.21aa2999.29836bac@aol.com> Message-ID: <15442.5371.104240.149072@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 25, SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > Mine runs AIX 2.2.1, but just in mono and I need a 6157 controller card so I > can use my tape drive. I think my RT has a 286 development board in it and I > have the software to run it still wrapped up. I might have to power it up and > see what i've been missing. I think there might be a tape controller board of some sort (with no drive) in mine. I will crack it open and find out. Do you know what the FRU number would be on the 6157? -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From CLeyson at aol.com Fri Jan 25 16:37:32 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: BBC Master keyboard Message-ID: <12c.b644d80.2983382c@aol.com> Many thanks for the helpful comments from Pete, Tony and Adrian. Lucky for me I discovered that the terminal pins unscrew. ALL of the keyswitch terminal pins have be cleaned with a mild abrasive (Brasso) and then washed in IPA. I had to remove all of the switches to clean the rust from the frame, but what the hell, they're back to original condition. BTW I don't have any WD40 and would never ever use it on any electrical or mechanical parts - never ever ! Also, as the leaf springs in the key switches are gold plated I've left them 'as is' and not used any propriety "switch cleaners". They should work for another 15 years :-) Also, fixed the intermittent dry joint in the PSU and added the composite video colour mod. Found the last one on the Acorn FTP site http://acorn.riscos.com/documents/appnotes/ This was one of my better buys from Ebay. My only complaint is the tatty case - I will have to think about "re-boxing" it. Perhaps in a 1U 19in case, it will make the connectors a little more accessible and support the weight of the Cumana dual disk drives ! Thanks for the help Chris Chris From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Jan 25 16:59:55 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: Non-profit reselling Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1C0@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com] > I can FEEL the love around here. Yep. Sooo.... I didn't tell everyone about my new VT131 yet. That's the ticket -- how about those classic computers? ;) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jan 25 17:28:58 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: SOL video monitor In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1C0@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1C0@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: Does anybody recall what model Panasonic TV was shown in the SOL catalog for use as a video monitor? Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 25 17:26:47 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: HP2671G + fax paper In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020125092506.007e9d90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Jan 25, 2 09:25:06 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1884 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020125/3a3fdb04/attachment.ksh From CLeyson at aol.com Fri Jan 25 17:43:49 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: SOL video monitor Message-ID: No. But I have a Panasonic WV-CM140 monitor if that rings any bells. Colour monitor composite video only, no RGB. Chris From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jan 25 18:04:31 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: SOL video monitor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >No. But I have a Panasonic WV-CM140 monitor if that rings any bells. >Colour monitor composite video only, no RGB. I've got a TR-882 with mine, which is what it was bought with, but it's not the same as the one Processor Tech. shows in their catalog. I've often wondered what the other one was. The TR-882 is a B/W AC/DC powered portable of the same size but it's speaker/control knobs are flipped, the speaker on the bottom vice on the top. There's also a 3-position switch on the back that was added to switch it from being a TV to a monitor for the computer. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From taylor at cem.nrl.navy.mil Fri Jan 25 18:53:39 2002 From: taylor at cem.nrl.navy.mil (Douglas Taylor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: REALLY Re: Mastersport 386SX In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020125091955.00b0f3e8@crystal.nrl.navy.mil> References: <20020125041855.YBQJ17815.imf26bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020125194928.00ac61f0@crystal.nrl.navy.mil> At 09:24 AM 1/25/02 -0500, you wrote: >At 11:16 PM 1/24/2002 -0500, you wrote: >> > From: Dave Mabry >> >> > I used to have the computer he was referring to in the original post, a >> > Zenith MastersPort SX and it's AC adapter was an inline variety. Cords >> > on both ends. I never would have guessed it being called a wart. >> >>Having never seen the transformer/power supply/wart/whatever, I didn't know >>it was of the inline variety. >> >>Does anyone have the specs on this thing??? >> >>Glen >>0/0 > >I have one of these at home, I'll take a look and then post the answer. I >do recall that the power cord that plugs into the laptop has a simple >coaxial plug. This turns out to be a common point of failure since it is >very easy to break the power connection by bumping the plug while it is in >the jack. The jack is soldered to a pc board in the laptop and is not >very strong mechanically. > >Doug It turns out I have two Zenith Data Systems 'SuperSport' labtops, one is an 8088 model and the other is a 80386/SX 16 (I think), the last one is called a 'SuperSport SX'. They use the same external power supply, 16.5 VDC 2.5 amps. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 25 18:54:59 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jan 25, 2 01:08:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1462 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020126/b842161c/attachment.ksh From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Jan 25 20:03:13 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:09 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Lawrence LeMay said: > > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 > > perhaps... > > monitors! > > non-current printers Current generation PCs. And then 99.999% of all old PCs which have actually /negative/ value. -brian. From root at diablonet.net Fri Jan 25 19:03:53 2002 From: root at diablonet.net (Netdiablo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: More E&S Research... Message-ID: <3C51FE38.425B7EF0@diablonet.net> Hi everyone! I've been doing a little bit more research on this strange Evans and Sutherland computer that turned up at the University of Michigan property disposition warehouse, and I thought I'd mention some of it here in case anyone were interested. I was doing a little more determined Web-surfing, and, as far as I can tell, this machine was not an ES-3, but an ESV-3. With that information in hand, I turned up some of the following information. * These machines were based upon the MIPS R3000 microprocessor. They seem to have been as powerful (at least processor wise) as an SGI Personal IRIS 4D/35 or a lowball (R3000) SGI Indigo. I'm still quite curious as to their graphics capabilities, though. How would these have compared to the Elan graphics system that SGI would have been selling around this time? How about GTX/GTXB/RealityEngine graphics on the larger Power Series and Crimson machines? Any ideas? * They seemed to commonly have between 32 and 64 megabytes of RAM, and between 500 to 1000 megabytes of hard disk storage installed (probably) as standard. * They ran an operating system called ES/OS, which as far as I can tell was some sort of UNIX derivative that also ran the X Window System. It doesn't look like it got much farther than version 2.x. * They seem to have been quite popular in the chemical modeling field, and were also used in X-Ray Crystallography (sp?). So, I'll see what I can do about going back there and picking it up perhaps sometime next week. Unfortunately, the University wants $100 for it, and as I said earlier, the system is lacking the keyboard, mouse, and monitor (and I imagine that these do not show up very often), so I'll still probably be deliberating this purchase a little bit. Interestingly enough, I found a mailing list message in Google's cache (circa 1999) soliciting a source for replacement E&S ESV systems from the University here as one had broken... I wonder if this was it! :) If it is, it sure gives one a feel for the speed of the property disposition pipeline! Ah, yeah, I'll take a look at how much they want for that DG dual floppy drive as well. I wouldn't imagine it's going anywhere quickly. :) Kind regards, Sean -- Sean Caron http://www.diablonet.net scaron@engin.umich.edu root@diablonet.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 25 18:45:11 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: More E&S Research... In-Reply-To: <3C51FE38.425B7EF0@diablonet.net> from "Netdiablo" at Jan 25, 2 08:03:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1001 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020126/ffbd36b6/attachment.ksh From allain at panix.com Fri Jan 25 19:27:16 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: <200201251531.KAA11198@wordstock.com> <000f01c1a5bc$a9007a20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3C50D4C6.A97477E2@jetnet.ab.ca> <003c01c1a5dd$df8e87a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <00b801c1a608$97527fc0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> - - - -point however. DEC, for example, stayed with "old" technology, charging WAY more than "new" technology prices for it for years. They typically lagged two generations behind in technology, yet exceeded costs of "leading edge" systems by a couple of orders of magnitude. Just compare the cost and features of the PC/AT clones sold in, say, '87-88 with a similarly equipped microVAX-II. The PC/AT would typically cost about $800 bucks, while a similarly equipped uVaxII cost nearly $100K, partly for the stuff the PC/AT had, and partly for what you had to add in order to have the stuff the PC/AT had. Inside a year, the power cost alone exceeded the PC/AT, yet folks LOVED the microVax and hated the PC/AT clone, that ran half-again as fast. If that DEC gear hadn't been so - - - - - - - -counterpoint I have two machines sold in 1987, and the original bills of sale for both. One I bought used for 35 bucks 5 years ago, the other, new. 1987: PS/2m60 10Mhz $2,200 and microVaxII ??20Mhz?? $39,000 Looks bad, doesn't it? Except the PS2 had 1M/mem and 44M/disk and the VAX had 16M/mem, 310M/disk. So the price differential was 18x, not 120x, and there was enough difference in capacity to see why. So, personally I have few problems with DEC. - - - - John A. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Jan 25 19:42:56 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: VAX enthusiasm taken to the next level Message-ID: I haven't seen this sent to the list yet even though it's a bit old at this stage. It's on-topic for certain, but if you have any issues w.r.t. vintage and contemporary computer erotica, I suggest you skip over this message and move on to the next. http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?itemid=19252878 In some recent discussions with Kibo, we'd agreed that any fetish which can be conceived by human intelligence, most probably exists. The above represents one I speculated would exist, but I think this qualifies as the first example of it I've seen. I've read about the student "art film" done with SAIL and an "attachment" to a robotic arm that system controlled. Also of note, I did e-mail her to ask what OS she was running on the VAX. Apparently the system isn't hers (points deducted). She doesn't know what OS it has on it (points deducted), and she believes it isn't even an operational MicroVAX-II (even more points deducted). I mean, sure, having the naked woman option with your VAX is great and all, but if the VAX doesn't actually work then what's the point? I believe she programs as well, so this is relevant to one of the other threads here about female programmers... And I do mean it's RELEVANT though certainly not representative-- at least not based on my experiences. -brian. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Jan 25 19:57:18 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: VAXstation newbie In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Alan Pearson wrote: > ;-) Since I don't have any "real" terminals I've got various options.. the > most likely is to use my ST's VT52 emulator (got to keep it "classic"!) - > anyone tried this? Surprisingly enough, yes. My first personal VAX was a VAXstation 3100, and I used an Atari 520ST and it's VT52 emulator as my console. It worked just fine. I'm not a big fan of the Atari 520ST keyboard, but it was adequate enough to work with the system. I don't remember if I had to use a straight through cable or a null-modem. -brian. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Jan 25 20:01:19 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > The two I've found so far were engaged to be married. Damn them. To eachother? -brian. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Jan 25 20:19:57 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020124154618.0147b728@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Hell, *everything* I do is fast -- Winders & Linux! [[ahem... I have a > dual-processor Athlon MP 1600+ -- dual SCSI, dual LAN, etc... so I realize > this isn't a fair fight... ;-) ]] You're not gonna impress anyone on this list with that candy-pants quiche-eating system. You can start to get our attention by get a computer that weighs more than you. Or barring that, we'll respect you more if your system doesn't have floating point instructions, or an integer divide, or even an integer multiply. -brian. From mew_list at swbell.net Fri Jan 25 19:00:09 2002 From: mew_list at swbell.net (Mitch Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" References: <026701c1a53d$83beeb40$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <3C51FF99.15B@swbell.net> My contribution for the week, ABE has one for $9.95. Search for publisher = MICRODATA. http://www.abebooks.com/ Bet it won't be there for long... --M Jay West wrote: > > Lame? I think NOT!!!! Talk about historical.... > > The Microdata was THE very FIRST commercial Pick operating system based > computer. It was the one Dick Pick and Chandru Murthi gave the Pick > operating system to the world on. Why was it chosen? Simple... the microcode > architecture was extremely flexible. They wrote the operating system using a > virtual (or "mythical") instruction set, then programmed the firmware > (EEPROM) with the necessary missionary to native instructions to execute the > virtual code. Most other operating systems are designed the other way > around. Absolutely fascinating, and certainly historical. > > Regards, > > Jay West > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sellam Ismail" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 9:51 AM > Subject: Re: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" > > > On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Pat Barron wrote: > > > > > I happened across one of these recently, and have no real interest in > > > Microdata. So, I've listed the thing on eBay, check it out if > > > interested... > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1326034396 > > > > Lame. > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * > > > > From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jan 25 20:37:10 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > Hmmm. I guess then an xBox being sold at a price above the MSRP is > not 'too high' of a price. Or the example of dead UPS's being sold > for $50 a pop. Or a CISC AS/400 being sold for $140k. Sorry, but a > lot of the time things are available for much lower prices outside of > eBay than they are on eBay. Ignorant people go around buying and > selling things for much more than they're worth on eBay. Actually, the guy selling the UPS tried to sell them for $50, but no one wanted them. These were all 200-450VA/120V types, which can easily be bought brand new for $40-60. > I personally have no problem with bid sniping. I've done it myself a > number of times. The problem lies in the fact that some people do not > have enough FINANCIAL RESOURCES to be bidding 2x what something is > worth on eBay. Exactly, there is no way anyone can justify paying twice (or even more) what something is actually worth, just because it has sold that high once before on ebay. Ebay is not a market or pricing guide, but lots of people seem to think that it is. > As a college student that has just been laid off from my job at Purdue > (!) I know what it's like. I know exactly how this is... > Sure, there are a lot of good deals to be had on eBay, but there are > also plenty of bad deals. >From what I've seen, when it comes to ebay, the bad deals far outweigh the good deals. Much of it is due to greedy or uneducated sellers, some artificially inflating the "value" of their goods, some just not understanding ebay "value" is not true market worth. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jan 25 20:54:20 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > It's up to the individual buyer/seller to do the research ahead of > time and know what the item is actually worth and then decide what it > is worth to them individually. True, the buyer and seller *should* do research. One common problem that seems to occur are sellers attempting to mislead uneducated buyers. If more buyers that used ebay knew the *true* market value of the goods being sold, there would be alot less dishonesty on ebay as a whole. > The way I see it, eBay can't be compared to a normal auction because > regular auctions don't allow open bidding, with the bid available for > all to see, for a week or more. Closed-bid auctions do, but that's a > totally different animal. You've got to be a fool to place a bid on > something at the beginning of a 9 day auction on eBay and think you're > going to get it. I attend live auctions on a regular basis, and there is no comparison between a true live auction and ebay's twisted definition of auction. During a live auction, you get to interact with other potential buyers, make some friends, and even trade a few items along the way. You can observe the way others bid, such as body language when someone is really interested in an item or just has a slight interest. A live auction has a time limit on an item. I have seen two bidders bid on an item for 5 minutes or so, but this is rare and tends to annoy the auctioneers and other buyers. Most bids are placed and over in a matter of seconds. Ebay is so different from a true live auction, that I really don't see how ebay can call the sales it hosts "auctions". -Toth From CLeyson at aol.com Fri Jan 25 15:48:53 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Sniing was Re: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" Message-ID: <95.167e85e7.29832cc5@aol.com> In a message dated 25/01/02 12:57:14 Pacific Standard Time rigdonj@cfl.rr.com writes: > But no one is forcing you to buy those bad deals. So take the good ones > and leave the rest. That's how you "win" on E-bay. > > Joe I totally agree with Joe. There are some nice bargains to be had and some truly awful crap. So far I think I'm breaking even on the bargain and crap score. As the Ebay novelty wears off I've learnt to more choosy in what I buy. Over time you learn who are the good guys, the re-sellers, collectors or enthusiasts making an honest living, and the bad guys who just jump on the band wagon and push up the prices. If you really want something there are lots of places to look besides Ebay. Chris From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Jan 25 00:44:35 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Sniing was Re: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" References: <95.167e85e7.29832cc5@aol.com> Message-ID: <3C50FED3.ED55DCCB@jetnet.ab.ca> CLeyson@aol.com wrote: > > Over time you learn who are the good guys, the re-sellers, collectors or > enthusiasts > making an honest living, and the bad guys who just jump on the band wagon and > push up the prices. > > If you really want something there are lots of places to look besides Ebay. > > Chris Well tell me, I would like to know what other on-line places are there to look for older equipment. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 25 18:38:57 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Sniping was Re: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" In-Reply-To: <3C50FED3.ED55DCCB@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <95.167e85e7.29832cc5@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020125193857.007cd7c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:44 PM 1/24/02 -0700, you wrote: >CLeyson@aol.com wrote: >> >> Over time you learn who are the good guys, the re-sellers, collectors or >> enthusiasts >> making an honest living, and the bad guys who just jump on the band wagon and >> push up the prices. >> >> If you really want something there are lots of places to look besides Ebay. >> >> Chris > >Well tell me, I would like to know what other on-line places are there >to look for older equipment. Have you looked at ABEbooks? You can buy books there such as the S-100 Handbook for a fraction of what it sells for on E-bay. A LOT of surplus companies have web sites and I have gotten good bargains from them. They're not interested in "calssic" or odd ball computers and will often sell that kind of stuff for next to nothign just to get it out of the way especially if you go and pick it up and pay them in cash. Joe From CLeyson at aol.com Fri Jan 25 17:29:58 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Sniing was Re: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" Message-ID: <17e.2a6144a.29834476@aol.com> In a message dated 25/01/02 14:31:21 Pacific Standard Time, bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca writes: > Well tell me, I would like to know what other on-line places are there > to look for older equipment. > BTW, I'm located in the UK so Ebay.co.uk is very poor in terms of choice. 'Ebay dot com' on the other hand is a totally different ball game so for you it is like one stop shopping. As an example - on one day there were thirty (yes three zero) items listed under "Test Equipment" in the UK and 1500 on Ebay.com. Sometimes I go hunting for RF test gear and to be honest you guys on the other side of the pond are spoilt. The same applies to vintage computer equipment. All you get on UK Ebay is Spectrums, C64's and Atari 1600's, mostly games I must add. There is a good selection of Acorn hardware but that's about it. Early SBC stuff is rare (KIM and AIM65 etc). DEC and HP hardly ever appear on ebay.co.uk Many electronic test equipment dealers have surplus computer equipment for sale, especially in the US and Canada. It all depends on what you are looking for. I've often found that dealers haven't got the time to keep their websites up to date and often don't list many items. If I'm looking for a particular piece of hardware or perhaps a service manual I find that an email sometimes gets a favorable response. Google is another option, and I often spend hours following links to sites that may have an item I'm looking for. In fact I sometimes spend hours following link to loads of other interesting sites just for the hell of it. It's like being let loose in a library for the very first time :-) I hope that's put things into perspective Ben. BTW if I was happy paying the postage and import duties then Ebay.com would be one stop shopping for me. Post Script: For books try Abebooks.com Best Regards Chris From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jan 25 21:09:08 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Sniing was Re: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020125153833.007d5a00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Joe wrote: > Or the example of dead UPS's being sold for $50 a > >pop. > > Did you ever stop to consider that the buyer might know somehing that you > don't? Perhaps he is knowledgeable on that model and knows that 90% of the > "dead" ones can be fixed by changing an internal fuse even when the > manufacturer claims that "there are no user serviceable parts inside". In this particular instance, I had done work for the place who was selling off the dead ups at auction. They were indeed a little crispy and their magic smoke was gone. They had taken a near lightening strike. I have repaired these units in the past, but it is not something I would recommend anyone not experienced with them try. There are lethal voltages and currents inside these units, even when disconnected from AC mains. I was quite sick when I saw the seller trying to sell these off to uneducated buyers on ebay for $50 each. If someone had indeed bought one at that price, they would have been tempted to try to repair it when it did not work. People qualified to work on these units would tend to be educated buyers and not even consider paying $50 for a dead unit. -Toth From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 25 21:26:56 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: <200201251531.KAA11198@wordstock.com> <000f01c1a5bc$a9007a20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3C50D4C6.A97477E2@jetnet.ab.ca> <003c01c1a5dd$df8e87a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3C50EAA9.7744766C@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <002401c1a619$4e940040$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, that's possible, but we're talking several generations' difference, since the MAC was '85 or so while the Apple ][ was '78-'79. They may both be a long time back, but the ][+ was the guy whose video connector was under discussion. ISTR that the Apple ][ was capable of generating interlaced video at something on the order of 512x480. Maybe someone more knowledgable regarding ][+ video capabilities can clear that up, but it was something not too far from what the typical TV would do. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Franchuk" To: Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 10:18 PM Subject: Re: Bell & Howell Apple II update > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > What do you mean here, Ben? The PC didn't use a TV for output, and the MAC > > didn't use TV for output. The Amiga could, I suppose, use TV output, but it > > could do it at resolution much better than 640x200, and had a full range of > > colors at a time when the MAC and PC didn't. > > I don't remember much about the Amiga but TV video was a big aspect > because > community channels would often use them for display devices. Local > football > team plays sunday... girlguides are selling cookies... place your > message > here. What I really remember is that dumb bouncing ball demo. > What I remember about the Mac was it only had 128k memory,since I had > a Dr Dobbs magazine on upgrading one to 512k. > > > First of all, within any market segment, investment in improved technology > > increases market share. That doesn't apply over different market segments, > > however. DEC, for example, stayed with "old" technology, charging WAY more > > than "new" technology prices for it for years. They typically lagged two > > generations behind in technology, yet exceeded costs of "leading edge" systems > > by a couple of orders of magnitude. Just compare the cost and features of the > > PC/AT clones sold in, say, '87-88 with a similarly equipped microVAX-II. The > > PC/AT would typically cost about $800 bucks, while a similarly equipped uVaxII > > cost nearly $100K, partly for the stuff the PC/AT had, and partly for what you > > had to add in order to have the stuff the PC/AT had. Inside a year, the power > > cost alone exceeded the PC/AT, yet folks LOVED the microVax and hated the > > PC/AT clone, that ran half-again as fast. If that DEC gear hadn't been so > > expensive, nobody would have bought it for sale to their government clients, > > since there would have been more profit in the PC/AT route. > > That is true but at one time DEC was competitive with technology and > price, > then the suits took over. > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > > From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Jan 25 21:24:21 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Non-profit reselling In-Reply-To: <007601c1a603$45c5fb00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Jan 25, 02 07:49:11 pm Message-ID: <200201260324.WAA02439@wordstock.com> And thusly John Allain spake: > > One more vote for Sellam. > The show was decent for the turnout, several exhibitors had > equipment I thought I'd never see again. The speakers were > excellent, of A+ quality. My financial involvement was this: I guess even the Byte guy - He brought eccentricity to a whole new level! :) > bought two tickets, one t-shirt, drove 1200 miles, no kick-back > required. The DEC thinnet repeater and IBM portable are > considered great deals at $6/both. I got "The Complete Commodore Inner Space Anthology" :) Put out by the same people who did the Transactor magazine. (Oh, and it is Canadian too!) Anyways, I used to have one when I had my original 64 setup. Great reference book! :-D (But I found out that the original author has reprinted them!) > > And Bryan, you deserved a free sandwich at the very least. Jim Beam would be fine! ;) Cheers, Bryan From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 25 21:42:03 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > > I went to Home Depot and bought a Craftsman 7.25" .75hp saw, with AP > > blade & spare carbide plywood blade, for $29.95. Wait. Frgot the > > 36month warranty. > > Are you sure that you did not lose your way and go into a Sears store in > error? Craftsman is after all a trademark by Sears! :o) Yes, I'm sure. The H.D here sells some Craftsman power tools. Doc From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Jan 25 01:58:48 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: Message-ID: <3C511038.B46DB34@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: > > > What do you mean here, Ben? The PC didn't use a TV for output, and the MAC > > Didn't it? That's news to me... > > The original CGA card has a composite NTSC output on an RCA phono socket. > It also has a 4 pin header plug inside that was designed to connect to an > RF modulator to get TV output. > > IIRC the CGA monitor (5153) came out rather later than the PC or CGA > card, and the original intention was that some users _would_ use a normal > TV and moulator with this card. I always used a Amiga monitor for CGA. But then the PC had cassette basic too! -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 25 21:37:34 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: Message-ID: <007801c1a61a$cadc99e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yes, that's the monitor, though the ones I remember were branded Sanyo, and I've got one of 'em, still. These were probably the most common and most widely used closed-circuit monitors for small security systems and the like, and they did/do have that SO259 connector on the back. There were, of course, adapters form that to the BNC, and I used 'em when I had 75-ohm BNC-terminated cable, but most of what I found back then, from buildings being torn down, etc, was the PL259-terminated stuff, and that wasn't what you'd call "old" but it was being left in place, as were the old DEC machines and teletype hardware. I got one old teletype CRT complete with a "band" printer and one of the then (1979)-fancy Bell 212 modems from a building being torn down. I couldn't haul off the several PDP-whatevers that were present the night before demolition, else I'd have snagged 'em. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 5:04 PM Subject: Re: Bell & Howell Apple II update > > > > I suppose the distinction is that in the microcomputer market, at least at the > > time of the Apple ][+, the PL259 connector was commonly used on what people > > could afford to buy to go with their budget microcomputer. The most common > > Quite likely... > > > monitor I remember seeing in use, and often as part of a display in the local > > computer store, was the 9" (?) Sanyo "security" monitor that was about the > > same height as two of the Apple disk drives, one atop the other. That whole > > This sounds a little like the common Apple monitor in the UK. It had a 9" > CRT (although there is also a 12" model) and looked like a grey metal > cube with a black plastic front panel. IIRC the user controls were a > rocker switch for power, then knobs for brightness, contrast, vhold and > hhold. > > The video input was, indeed, a pair of (parallel-connected) SO239s > (socket for the PL259 plug, aka 'UHF plug') with a termination switch to > connect a 75 ohm resistor across the input. > > It was made bu Hitachi. I am certain about this as I found the > instruction sheet and schematic for it the other day. > > -tony > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 25 21:45:57 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: Message-ID: <008601c1a61b$f684a320$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> What meant by that was that the PC didn't put out standard NTSC (interlaced) video but something considerably less than that. IIRC, the Amiga was capable of interlaced display. Consequently, they were frequently used for titling "educational" (read limited-budget) productions, which is often quite obvious. The PC didn't support the functions necessary for such titling, though I suppose one could have written a smooth-scrolling utility easily enough. Summing the titles with an external video stream was not on the menu for PC's, though. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 5:48 PM Subject: Re: Bell & Howell Apple II update > > What do you mean here, Ben? The PC didn't use a TV for output, and the MAC > > Didn't it? That's news to me... > Nope ... it required additional (3rd-party) hardware for that ... > > The original CGA card has a composite NTSC output on an RCA phono socket. > It also has a 4 pin header plug inside that was designed to connect to an > RF modulator to get TV output. > > IIRC the CGA monitor (5153) came out rather later than the PC or CGA > card, and the original intention was that some users _would_ use a normal > TV and moulator with this card. > Since I didn't jump on the PC bandwagon right away, I'm not sure what the original package was, but my original (Aug '81) PC technical reference includes schematics for the CGA monitor and adapter but mentions nothing about an RF modulator. I'd be surprised to learn there wasn't such a thing in the mill, though. > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Jan 25 02:30:02 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: <008601c1a61b$f684a320$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3C51178A.D9568263@jetnet.ab.ca> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > What meant by that was that the PC didn't put out standard NTSC (interlaced) > video but something considerably less than that. IIRC, the Amiga was capable > of interlaced display. Consequently, they were frequently used for titling > "educational" (read limited-budget) productions, which is often quite obvious. > The PC didn't support the functions necessary for such titling, though I > suppose one could have written a smooth-scrolling utility easily enough. > Summing the titles with an external video stream was not on the menu for PC's, > though. Often they used a TARGA 16 board there for digital video and editing. That was is 512 pixels wide 15 bit color, 1 bit for video overlay. I have two kicking around here. DOS only -- never had a video drive for windows. They later moved to Mac products. > Dick -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 25 22:33:21 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: <008601c1a61b$f684a320$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3C51178A.D9568263@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <002301c1a622$960e4120$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yeah ... I remember hearing about those Targa boards. That's derived from an AT&T product, isn't it? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Franchuk" To: Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 1:30 AM Subject: Re: Bell & Howell Apple II update > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > What meant by that was that the PC didn't put out standard NTSC (interlaced) > > video but something considerably less than that. IIRC, the Amiga was capable > > of interlaced display. Consequently, they were frequently used for titling > > "educational" (read limited-budget) productions, which is often quite obvious. > > The PC didn't support the functions necessary for such titling, though I > > suppose one could have written a smooth-scrolling utility easily enough. > > Summing the titles with an external video stream was not on the menu for PC's, > > though. > Often they used a TARGA 16 board there for digital video and editing. > That was is 512 pixels wide 15 bit color, 1 bit for video overlay. > I have two kicking around here. DOS only -- never had a video drive for > windows. They later moved to Mac products. > > > Dick > > > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 25 21:58:06 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: <200201251531.KAA11198@wordstock.com> <000f01c1a5bc$a9007a20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3C50D4C6.A97477E2@jetnet.ab.ca> <003c01c1a5dd$df8e87a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <00b801c1a608$97527fc0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <009401c1a61d$aaf30440$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I never tried a comparison between the vastly overpriced PS/2's and the DEC stuff, but they apparently played in the same ballpark. Unfortunately, the PS/2 series was vastly outperformed by PC/AT clones sporting 20 MHz and even 25 MHz '286's (I still have one of the latter.) at a teensy fraction of the price of a slow PS/2. My 25 MHz '286 w/IIT '287 and 8 MB of RAM cost about $400 including the box, keyboard, etc. I got the pair of 1.2 GB drives as discontinued sample stock from the Maxtor salesman. Those were pretty big, fast drives (and could keep your coffee warm all day) for the time. The controller cost $188. Comparable drives cost about $3k back then, but the biggest drives that we could buy for our uVAX-II's at the time were 360MB and they cost $4375 each. The controller cost $2375, IIRC. Theynever did build a microVAX that would outrun that 25 MHz '286. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 6:27 PM Subject: Re: Bell & Howell Apple II update > - - - -point > however. DEC, for example, stayed with "old" technology, charging WAY more > than "new" technology prices for it for years. They typically lagged two > generations behind in technology, yet exceeded costs of "leading edge" > systems > by a couple of orders of magnitude. Just compare the cost and features of > the > PC/AT clones sold in, say, '87-88 with a similarly equipped microVAX-II. > The > PC/AT would typically cost about $800 bucks, while a similarly equipped > uVaxII > cost nearly $100K, partly for the stuff the PC/AT had, and partly for what > you > had to add in order to have the stuff the PC/AT had. Inside a year, the > power > cost alone exceeded the PC/AT, yet folks LOVED the microVax and hated the > PC/AT clone, that ran half-again as fast. If that DEC gear hadn't been so > - - - - > > > - - - -counterpoint > I have two machines sold in 1987, and the original bills of sale for both. > One I bought used for 35 bucks 5 years ago, the other, new. > 1987: PS/2m60 10Mhz $2,200 and microVaxII ??20Mhz?? $39,000 > Looks bad, doesn't it? Except the PS2 had 1M/mem and 44M/disk > and the VAX had 16M/mem, 310M/disk. So the price differential was > 18x, not 120x, and there was enough difference in capacity to see why. > So, personally I have few problems with DEC. > - - - - > > John A. > > From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Jan 25 17:58:09 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: <009401c1a61d$aaf30440$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20020126045820.FWVE16289.tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Richard Erlacher" > To: > Subject: Re: Bell & Howell Apple II update > Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 20:58:06 -0700 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > My 25 MHz '286 w/IIT '287 and 8 MB of RAM cost about $400 including the box, > cost $2375, IIRC. > > Theynever did build a microVAX that would outrun that 25 MHz '286. Lucky to u on that 1.2GB monsters. About right for that time, GASP! That 286 25MHz motherboard is certainly pcchips. what a POS and had few 286-20 also. Having 287XL in it doesn't work too well! That was back in 1991 or so. Cheers, Wizard Had homebuilt of POS cacheless 386-25 shitbox when I was new to the PC w/ whopping 80MB IDE. :-D I learned better after few problems w/ 486 boards then went w/ Asus and quality parts. > Dick From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jan 25 22:44:46 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: <002401c1a619$4e940040$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Well, that's possible, but we're talking several generations' difference, > since the MAC was '85 or so while the Apple ][ was '78-'79. They may both be > a long time back, but the ][+ was the guy whose video connector was under > discussion. ISTR that the Apple ][ was capable of generating interlaced video > at something on the order of 512x480. Maybe someone more knowledgable > regarding ][+ video capabilities can clear that up, but it was something not > too far from what the typical TV would do. That does not aound right for the video capabilities of the ][+. Wasn't it closer to 280? x 192?? (expanded to 560? x 192? on 2e?) Apple 2 and IBM CGA both had coonectors explicitly for RF modulator. Most popular at the time was SupRMod? on ch34. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Jan 25 02:23:12 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: VAX enthusiasm taken to the next level References: Message-ID: <3C5115F0.FCC253@jetnet.ab.ca> Brian Chase wrote: > I believe she programs as well, so this is relevant to one of the other > threads here about female programmers... And I do mean it's RELEVANT > though certainly not representative-- at least not based on my > experiences. I have seen better NUDES. Better computers too. :) -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Jan 25 22:55:16 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: VAX enthusiasm taken to the next level In-Reply-To: <3C5115F0.FCC253@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > I have seen better NUDES. > Better computers too. :) Life is a compromise most of the time. I'd venture to guess that most of us on the ClassicCmp list would be fortunate to find *any* woman willing to cope our computer habits, let alone would you find one who would participate. Even if it does involve approaching it from a somewhat different angle of participation. Admittedly, I wouldn't consider this particular woman to be my type. Like I said, it wasn't her VAX and it didn't work. Not to say interest in computers is any sort of prerequisite, but if you're going to feign interest, you need to do a more convincing job of it. :-) -brian. From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 25 13:12:46 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Non-profit reselling In-Reply-To: <3C51CFDC.A98F5373@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote: > Do you for a minute think I give a shit about what you want or what > you think? Wake up and smell the coffee pal. I actually consider it a > serious possibility your vcf is a front for your business, and you are > just running a scam. So piss the fuck off asshole. Gee, did someone just come to the realization that their dick is too small? The VCF *is* a business, genius. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 25 23:09:35 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Non-profit reselling References: Message-ID: <3C523A0F.EB847DC0@verizon.net> > The VCF *is* a business, genius. You've previously carefully avoided disclosing that fact. It's a business that will never see one slim dime from us. We would never recommend you to anyone. It's not because of what you charge. You may be worth every bit of that. You might even be worth ten times that. It's because in your attempts to get ahead, you do it by trying to bring others down. I bet if someone got a quote from you on a part, even at the same time you were telling everyone on the list that it wasn't worth shit, you'd be quoting it at a rate that would make you a real living. You want to take your money in, but we can tell you won't pay anyone else shit. You're a one way fuck, and you know it. That's why we will never do business with you. Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote: > > > Do you for a minute think I give a shit about what you want or what > > you think? Wake up and smell the coffee pal. I actually consider it a > > serious possibility your vcf is a front for your business, and you are > > just running a scam. So piss the fuck off asshole. > > Gee, did someone just come to the realization that their dick is too > small? > > The VCF *is* a business, genius. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 25 23:49:42 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Non-profit reselling In-Reply-To: <3C523A0F.EB847DC0@verizon.net> Message-ID: Sellam, Ian, IMHO, this kind of personal battle has absolutely no place on any mailing list. Please, would you both Do The Right Thing, and take it off-list? Thank you very much. Doc From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 25 21:59:56 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards References: Message-ID: <00a201c1a61d$eb0c5180$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I was referring to the daisywheel ribbon cartridges to which I'd referred earlier. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 5:54 PM Subject: Re: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards > > > > On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > No, you can re-ink printer ribbons :-) > > > Not if they're the 'single strike' carbon film type, as used in my old > > > Sanders 12/7 printer. > > > > But, if you can't get new ribbons, you CAN replace the carbon film ribbon > > in that cartridge. > > Cartridge? What cartridge. The Sanders 12/7 ribbon is wound onto a > plastic hub (it's not even a spool, there are no flanges). You put this > hub onto a spool on the right side of the printer and clamp a flange > over it. There's a leaf spring to provide a little backtension here. You > then run the ribbon round a guide roller, across the front of the > printhead, around another guide roller, around the ribbon motion sensor > (a roller with a slotted optoswitch) and onto an empty hub between a pair > of flanges mounted on a small mains motor. > > After printing a row of dots, the AC motor is turned on (there's a solid > state relay on the backplane) until the appropriate amount of ribbon has > been wound on. If the ribbon sensor detects no movement, the printer > assumes the ribbon has run out and gives the appropriate error. I think, > BTW, the amount of ribbon used can be set under program control, but that > might only be on the later Sanders 700 machines > > The latter use a Diablo 630 print mechanism, but with a dot matrix head > in place of the daisywheel. The ribbon is a conventional Diablo 630 type > of cartridge with a stepper motor to wind it on. > > -tony > > From JHat385375 at aol.com Fri Jan 25 22:18:02 2002 From: JHat385375 at aol.com (jt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3 Message-ID: <000601c1a620$73581040$dfefea18@LVCM.COM> I saw your message about an boot disk dos for apple computer i have a power computer that apple own my boss try to load another os on to the computer and now it does not power up with a system on it can you tell how to get a boot disk. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020125/8c3563fd/attachment.html From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Fri Jan 25 23:21:44 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Z-100 serial ports Message-ID: <20020126054928.WEEH13958.imf07bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Please see below. > From: Don Maslin > Date: Thursday, January 24, 2002 2:55 PM > > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > > > Although I have (I believe) all of the manuals for the Zenith Z-100 (not > > Z-100 pc), I cannot find any reference to the serial ports on this box. > > > > What are the addresses of the DTE and DCE ports? I'd like to write some > > assembly code to access these devices (under CP/M-86) but want to control > > them at the hardware level instead of making BDOS calls. > The overlay for MEX (CP/M-80) says that the modem port - presumably > DTE - is 0D8H. It does not mention the DCE port. Do both processors > share the same seriak and parallel ports? > - don 2nd question first -- yes, the same ports are used regardless of the MPU. 1st question -- found some info in the 2nd manual under "programming data" (I was looking for *hardware" data!): 2661 Serial A (Printer Port) 0E8-0EB 2661 Serial B (Modem Port) 0EC-0EF Now I need to know exactly what the control and data addresses for these ports are. Maybe the first number is data and the second control, or the other way around? I'm not familiar with the 2661 -- any pointers? Hey -- I'll bet Tony knows! Thanks again, Glen 0/0 From jrasite at eoni.com Fri Jan 25 23:37:37 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: More E&S Research... References: Message-ID: <3C524089.99652694@eoni.com> E&S... Evans & Sutherland... Oh yeah, I remember seeing one of those set up and running. At the Air Space '88 air show in San Diego in 1988. Was demoing virtual reality training for tank drivers and fighter pilots. VERY high end stuff. Many kilodollar price tag (may have even been megadollar) and export restricted. Blew me away at the time. I might even have a brochure in my files... I'll check tomorrow. Jim From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 25 22:10:08 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: RT 6150 Lives! (Long!) In-Reply-To: <15441.59555.404619.114262@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > Oh wow...I didn't know you could do that. I have a 6150 here (from > BSD Bob) that I'd love to stick some more disk in. I will have to > investigate this further. :) http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=37mcehINN7o1%40CS.UTK.EDU The most concise description of the process I've found. Although if you use the dboot disk below, I don't think you'll need to do the SAU format. IFAICT, there's no way around the Seagate-to-boot limitation, but my Conner, at least, will work as a secondary, and some posts mention Quantum & WD. AIX will bitch & moan till you do a dboot AND let Diags format it, to build a bad-blocks table the VRM understands. > I'm running 4.4BSD on mine. It's a really neat machine. I just got > a megapel board for it (thanks Gordon!) and now I need to find a tube > and a mouse. Dog! I was a day late & a dollar short asking. Concerning the tube, the specs on the megapel's output strongly suggest that a 6091 in Mode 1 will do, an HP 9875[1-4]A or most any sync-on-green multi-sync. Concerning the cable, is the Megapel output the same 3W3 as the older RS/6000 adapters have? If so, I've never found an IBM cable for my RS6ks, but a DEC 3W3 works great if you swap Blue & Red. They're common as dirt, too. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 25 22:12:58 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: RT 6150 Lives! (Long!) In-Reply-To: <9f.21aa2999.29836bac@aol.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jan 2002 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/25/2002 6:28:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, > mcguire@neurotica.com writes: > Mine runs AIX 2.2.1, but just in mono and I need a 6157 controller card so I > can use my tape drive. I think my RT has a 286 development board in it and I > have the software to run it still wrapped up. I might have to power it up and > see what i've been missing. Wanna trade something (not RT stuff; I got no spares) for the 286 board? I'm still totally enthralled by the whole emulation trip. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 25 22:14:10 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: RT 6150 Lives! (Long!) In-Reply-To: <15442.5371.104240.149072@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > I think there might be a tape controller board of some sort (with no > drive) in mine. I will crack it open and find out. Do you know what > the FRU number would be on the 6157? Wouldn't it be easier to run diags? Doc From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jan 25 22:23:23 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: RT 6150 Lives! (Long!) In-Reply-To: Re: RT 6150 Lives! (Long!) (Doc) References: <15442.5371.104240.149072@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15442.12091.111175.813737@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 25, Doc wrote: > > I think there might be a tape controller board of some sort (with no > > drive) in mine. I will crack it open and find out. Do you know what > > the FRU number would be on the 6157? > > Wouldn't it be easier to run diags? It might, but I don't have any. The big pile of RT disks that I got from BSD Bob were mistakenly left in a storage locker in Maryland, and I won't be able to get to them for at least another month. :-( -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 25 23:39:17 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: RT 6150 Lives! (Long!) In-Reply-To: <15442.12091.111175.813737@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > On January 25, Doc wrote: > > Wouldn't it be easier to run diags? > > It might, but I don't have any. The big pile of RT disks that I got > from BSD Bob were mistakenly left in a storage locker in Maryland, and > I won't be able to get to them for at least another month. :-( ftp://ftp.dementia.org/pub/rt/diags.[1-3].gz ^^^^^ list-box... dd floppy images. Doc From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Jan 25 23:57:35 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Non-profit reselling In-Reply-To: <3C523A0F.EB847DC0@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote: > > > > The VCF *is* a business, genius. > > You've previously carefully avoided disclosing that fact. > It's a business that will never see one slim dime from us. ^^^^ > We would never recommend you to anyone. It's not because of ^^^^ > Flames come. Flames go. The topic veers wildly off course and then back. A lot of listmembers are interested in a lot of different areas; most are intelligent, diverse folks who share a predeliction for retro-computing. But I would prefer, Mr. Koller, that you disinclude myself from your screeds and chip-on-the-shoulder rants. Sellam has done more for classic computer collection than any one indivdual now working in the field. I know there are a couple of organizations who also contribute mightily, but Sellam works alone and with his own money. He and I are good friends, and I can tell you that we disagree on several points, sometimes heatedly, but that doesn't mean we can't laugh about it over dinner later. Please speak for yourself. You are entitled to your own opinions and feeling, but *I* don't remember electing you or appointing you for anything regarding classiccmping, nor do I remember *you* asking *me* if you could represent my own opinions... please remember this when choosing your pronouns. Since I'm ranting, I agree about eBay, I don't like time-delimited 'auctions'; a real auction is bid-activity delimited, but that's my opinion, and I've stated it here more than once. I do not agree with you on several of your other points, and, AFAIK, VCF has always been intended as a business, the which business has cost Sellam a lot more money than it's made. Not your money, Mr. Koller, not my money (though I've participated) - Sellam's pocket started and ran and continues to run the VCFs. Here endeth the message: thanks for reading! John From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 26 00:04:57 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Non-profit reselling In-Reply-To: <3C523A0F.EB847DC0@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote: > On Fri, 25 Jan 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > The VCF *is* a business, genius. > > You've previously carefully avoided disclosing that fact. It's a > business that will never see one slim dime from us. We would never > recommend you to anyone. It's not because of what you charge. You may > be worth every bit of that. You might even be worth ten times that. > It's because in your attempts to get ahead, you do it by trying to > bring others down. I bet if someone got a quote from you on a part, > even at the same time you were telling everyone on the list that it > wasn't worth shit, you'd be quoting it at a rate that would make you a > real living. You want to take your money in, but we can tell you won't > pay anyone else shit. You're a one way fuck, and you know it. That's > why we will never do business with you. Who is this "we" you are speaking of? I certainly don't align myself with *you*, Ian. Since I joined this last last year, many of the posts I've seen from you have been nothing more than personal attacks on others and other assorted ranting and raving. You seem to feel the need to show off and show that you are better than everyone else. I personally find your latest postings offensive and imagine a good many others here on classiccmp do as well. If you feel the need to use that kind of language, take it elsewhere! And by the way, Ian, if you feel the need to reply to this email, do *not* CC: it to me. -Toth From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Jan 26 00:04:35 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: RT 6150 Lives! (Long!) In-Reply-To: Re: RT 6150 Lives! (Long!) (Doc) References: <15442.12091.111175.813737@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15442.18163.774100.464678@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 25, Doc wrote: > > > Wouldn't it be easier to run diags? > > > > It might, but I don't have any. The big pile of RT disks that I got > > from BSD Bob were mistakenly left in a storage locker in Maryland, and > > I won't be able to get to them for at least another month. :-( > > ftp://ftp.dementia.org/pub/rt/diags.[1-3].gz > ^^^^^ list-box... > dd floppy images. Ahhhhhh, most excellent. Thanks! :-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From donm at cts.com Sat Jan 26 00:07:05 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > > > > I went to Home Depot and bought a Craftsman 7.25" .75hp saw, with AP > > > blade & spare carbide plywood blade, for $29.95. Wait. Frgot the > > > 36month warranty. > > > > Are you sure that you did not lose your way and go into a Sears store in > > error? Craftsman is after all a trademark by Sears! > > :o) Yes, I'm sure. The H.D here sells some Craftsman power tools. > > Doc Amazing! I'll have to check up on ours. - don From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jan 26 00:08:42 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: 6150 keyboard Message-ID: Well, I got irritated with the keyboard (ever try to use vi without the Escape key) and jerked it apart. Very gently. 1) I'm certain that it's re-badged OEM, not IBM-built. All the screws, internal and external, are Phillips. 2) It's not a double membrane, it's rubber cups over a PCB, with foil inserts in the caps. The traces on the PCB were covered with unidentified goop. *Only* under the Escape key. I dunno. 3) It works now. 4) Thanks, Tony. Even though this one bore no resemblance to your instructions, sometimes *thinking* you have a clue is as good as the real thing. On to TCP/IP, NFS, and maybe a game or two of hangman. Speaking of hangman, is it just me, or is the NetBSD port of hangman purely evil? Come on, now. "Prolegomenous?" Seriously, I've played hangman on a bunch of different Unices, and the recent NetBSD hangman is by far the hardest I've ever seen. Doc From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 26 00:17:08 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <200201251544.KAA13394@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20020126061708.79017.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bryan Pope wrote: > And thusly Richard Erlacher spake: > > > > When Netscape was released, it required a third-party "WINSOCK" module > > that one had to buy from someone, normally "Trumpet" and that P*SSED me > > off, since I'd previously been able to work with a free version. > > Trumpet WinSock was needed with Windows 3.1 because it did not have a > TCP/IP stack. Exactly. MicroSloth didn't provide an IP stack for Winblows until "Windows for Workgroups" and even then, it wasn't loaded automatically; you had to go out and download it from MS seperately (but it was free, providing you knew to go out and look for it). You had to go out and get a Winsock no matter what browser or ftp or telnet client you wanted to use. Either way, though, it was still better than the options under DOS. It's why I always used something else as a last hop to the outside. I installed Trumpet on a number of Win3.1 machines at McMurdo Station in 1995, back when Netscape still had a "Throbbing N". Before that, we used Mosaic. Eventually, we went with WfW 3.11 and the MS TCP/32 "upgrade". It wasn't great, but it was free. > I remember every ISP I used at that time provided a free copy of > Trumpet WinSock. I wasn't into Windows dial-up, so I never went that route. I don't dispute that ISPs did that, but I never once used an ISP install disk - I either plugged a VT100 directly into a modem and logged into their terminal server, or I did the same with an Amiga, either with the program "VT100" (original name, no?) or with UUCP (for mail and netnews when I was "erd@kumiss.UUCP") I managed to not have to set up a Windows dial-up until last year! Even when I stopped using the Amiga as my primary point of contact with the world, I didn't switch to a Windows box and a modem - there was always some sort of dial-up router between Windows and the outside - either my SPARCstation 1 running dp or a "WebRamp", dial-up router (which probably cost me $2/day, given how much it cost and how long I used it) > For a good *small* memory footprint browser now, try Opera. My little brother loved Opera and used it exclusively a few years (4?) ago. I seem to recall it didn't support tables or some other kinds of semi-modern HTML. I never loaded it myself, but I did use it at his house. Seemed OK, if it would render your pages at all. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 26 00:29:25 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:10 2005 Subject: QFP soldering In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020126062925.40267.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > > DON'T TIN THE PADS! > > You'll end up with major problems getting the QFP to sit down, > leading to unsoldered pins! Agreed... it doesn't take more than a few microns of solder humping up to skew the chip, or at least a few pins. > If you have a microscope, use it!!! I wish I had one of the stero microscopes we had at the repair shop at Lucent - hey... maybe when they close the plant here, someday, I'll be able to pick one up. Very nice... includes a 2-axis sliding table you clamp your board to with edge clips. It's what we used when a friend of mine and I replaced the 68EC030 with a full 68030 from my Amiga 4000. I eventually got a real 68040 CPU board (A3640?) and sidelined my upgraded '030 board, but for a few months, I could develop software with Enforcer and Mungwall - a big help. > If you screw up, DONT try to remove the part. Let me add that if you have a heat-gun-type soldering/unsoldering tool, with the QFP tip (to spread the air over all the pins at one), you can probably remove it. I'd tend to agree that the PCB is more important than most chips and to cut it loose to save the board. > PS If I was you, I'd try and find someone that does > electronic assembly for a living, and give them > twenty bucks to solder the parts on. For twenty > bucks, they'd probably be willing to build the > entire board for you, but you might enjoy that part > of the work... No doubt. The right tools, though, make all the difference in the world. I worked an SMT bench for a few weeks in 1998 (assembly-line rework prior to initial electrical inspection) and *wished* I had half the equipment in front of me at my house... foot-operated pneumatic solder paste dispenser, adjustable hot-air soldering tool, stereo microscope, electric torque driver (for handle screws), RF soldering iron with a dozen quick-change tips... about the only thing on the list that I'm ever likely to get is the RF soldering iron. They can be had for under $500 with one or two handles running from one RF/Power source. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 26 00:36:08 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: IBM 3101 Dip Switches Configuration In-Reply-To: <15440.39812.784237.564987@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20020126063608.20249.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com> --- Dave McGuire wrote: > On January 24, Doc wrote: > > > The problem is that the IBM 3101 don't establish communication... > > > > If by "normal serial cable" you mean a standard port-to-modem cable, > > that is most likely your problem. You need to use a null-modem serial > > cable with a terminal. > > That depends *completely* on the terminal. Several even have both > DTE- and DCE-wired connectors. I've seen that on some 3rd party VT100 clones (CiTOH), but it was two connections - one for host, one for external printer, or two hosts (with a keyboard sequence to swap the active port) - one was a DB25F, the other a DB25M, but only because the primary use for them was to act like DTE on one and DCE on the other (the dual-login thing was obviously a hack that got documented - not even VT100s could do that back in the day). > My standard rule for dealing with an RS232 in-yer-face is to plug it > in without a null modem and see if it works...if it doesn't, then plug > in a null modem. I either use a traffic light or my magic cable. I built it when I was 16. I need to ohm it out someday, but it has the property of magically unhosing serial connections that are hosed. It's not simply 2-3 and 3-2... there's some handshaking swapping going on. I built it to hang off of my C-64 RS-232 cart and attach to a variety of things including an ancient EPROM programmer. I've kept it because it's a magic cable that rarely lets me down when a device needs more than just TXD and RXD. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Jan 26 00:45:02 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: SOL video monitor References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1C0@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <00ab01c1a634$fb407420$ec2ecd18@Smith.earthlink.net> > Does anybody recall what model Panasonic TV was shown in the > SOL catalog for use as a video monitor? I assume you are already familiar with the text from the catalog: "Here's an 11" diagonal completely solid state black and white television specially modified for use with the Sol or VDM-1 units. A switch allows use as either a standard UHF/VHF television or as a video monitor. These units provide extremely crisp and stable displays and are fully grounded for safety. Manufactured by Panasonic." See http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/articles/1977catalog.pdf The Sol price list says that the model no. is PT-872. See http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/articles/pricelist.pdf From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 25 12:40:55 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: BBC Master keyboard In-Reply-To: Adrian Graham "RE: BBC Master keyboard" (Jan 25, 10:10) References: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021A89@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> Message-ID: <10201251840.ZM16202@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 25, 10:10, Adrian Graham wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > > Sent: 24 January 2002 23:33 > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: BBC Master keyboard > > > > Normally such keyswitches come apart. I am not sure just what type is > > used on the Beeb, but if they have round terminal pins then > > When I was key swapping to get a complete Master keyboard using a scrap > machine I noticed the keyswitches were glued together and not clipped. I > wanted to just swap over the plungers but had to swap over the whole switch > instead. They're different keyswitches. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From vance at ikickass.org Sat Jan 26 02:32:47 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: 6150 keyboard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > Well, I got irritated with the keyboard (ever try to use vi without > the Escape key) and jerked it apart. Very gently. > > 1) I'm certain that it's re-badged OEM, not IBM-built. All the screws, > internal and external, are Phillips. IBM's keyboards were always built by Lexmark. Recently (a few years ago), Lexmark spun off their keyboard operation, which was swalllowed up by Unicomp. This keyboard was built before IBM spun off Lexmark, which means it was built by IBM. > 2) It's not a double membrane, it's rubber cups over a PCB, with foil > inserts in the caps. The traces on the PCB were covered with > unidentified goop. *Only* under the Escape key. I dunno. The mechanism in IBM keyboards is called a "buckling spring mechanism". > 3) It works now. > > 4) Thanks, Tony. Even though this one bore no resemblance to your > instructions, sometimes *thinking* you have a clue is as good as > the real thing. > > On to TCP/IP, NFS, and maybe a game or two of hangman. > Speaking of hangman, is it just me, or is the NetBSD port of hangman > purely evil? Come on, now. "Prolegomenous?" Seriously, I've played > hangman on a bunch of different Unices, and the recent NetBSD hangman is > by far the hardest I've ever seen. Excellent! Peace... Sridhar From lschaier at avotec.com Sat Jan 26 06:53:24 2002 From: lschaier at avotec.com (Len Schaier) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: T1000XE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020126074820.009f2cb0@mail-hub.optonline.net> I've got a T1000XE that just died! It goes through a memory check ok but then the Hard drive just "clicks" when it tries to boot. I've got an external 51/4 drive but I guess the boot sequence that I was using looks to the hard drive first and then just stays there. Is there any key sequence or other trick that will get me to bypass the hard drive boot? At least then I might be able to learn enough about the failure to decide whether to just scrape the machine. Thanks in advance. Len From sipke at wxs.nl Sat Jan 26 08:20:57 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: T1000XE References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020126074820.009f2cb0@mail-hub.optonline.net> Message-ID: <000f01c1a674$ad3603e0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> I'll take it that the config is somewhere in a kinda CMOS-ram. So I would disconnect every battery in the machine for a couple of minutes to half an hour (there are always elco's), Then reconnect and reboot There maybe one ver long pencil-form accu in there, as well as the regular accu-pack and a lithuimcell or nicadcell for the CMOS, make sure you disconnect them all! After rebooting the system the will revert to defaults and a standard setup an will propably activate the floppy before the HD again. Given your description I'd say your HD is dead but if not so my procedure may also throw away the HD-setup data in CMOS and you may find it hard to reinstall a new HD (or the same after repair) if you have no other source for this kind of info. Maybe this list can help in that case. I once had a T1200SE that had no harddisk but used battery backuped RAM. so I'm describing that system, but given the T1000 prefix I think it must be rather similar. Sipke de Wal ---------------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx ---------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Len Schaier To: Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 1:53 PM Subject: T1000XE > I've got a T1000XE that just died! It goes through a memory check ok but > then the Hard drive just "clicks" when it tries to boot. I've got an > external 51/4 drive but I guess the boot sequence that I was using looks to > the hard drive first and then just stays there. > > Is there any key sequence or other trick that will get me to bypass the > hard drive boot? At least then I might be able to learn enough about the > failure to decide whether to just scrape the machine. > > Thanks in advance. > > Len > From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Jan 26 07:31:30 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: 6150 keyboard Message-ID: <186.2650011.298409b2@aol.com> In a message dated 1/26/2002 3:39:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, vance@ikickass.org writes: << > Well, I got irritated with the keyboard (ever try to use vi without > the Escape key) and jerked it apart. Very gently. > > 1) I'm certain that it's re-badged OEM, not IBM-built. All the screws, > internal and external, are Phillips. IBM's keyboards were always built by Lexmark. Recently (a few years ago), Lexmark spun off their keyboard operation, which was swalllowed up by Unicomp. This keyboard was built before IBM spun off Lexmark, which means it was built by IBM. > 2) It's not a double membrane, it's rubber cups over a PCB, with foil > inserts in the caps. The traces on the PCB were covered with > unidentified goop. *Only* under the Escape key. I dunno. The mechanism in IBM keyboards is called a "buckling spring mechanism". >> I've two RT keyboards. One is buckling spring and the other has quiet keys and seems like a cheaper version. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From CLeyson at aol.com Sat Jan 26 03:19:59 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards Message-ID: <91.17280d6b.2983cebf@aol.com> In a message dated 25/01/02 18:11:34 Pacific Standard Time, vaxzilla@jarai.org writes: > > > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 > > > perhaps... > Apple ][ are not that common in the UK. To me an HP85 that chews tapes would be less valuable than an Apple ][ Chris From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Jan 26 05:51:44 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: OT? Yahoo Free Listing Day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > > > The two I've found so far were engaged to be married. Damn them. > > To eachother? OK, it looks lik i _have_to_ put this to rest. No, not to each other. One got married last June, and the other isn't married yet. -- Pat From alanjones at pgen.net Sat Jan 26 06:49:05 2002 From: alanjones at pgen.net (alanjones) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: Comark Message-ID: <000a01c1a667$d81b61c0$b93f3c3e@alan> Can anyone help with a circuit diagram for a Comark 1905 insulation tester? makers won't help. Alan Jones -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020126/f78187ae/attachment.html From CLeyson at aol.com Sat Jan 26 07:22:04 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: BBC Micro Message-ID: <7c.21de7493.2984077c@aol.com> I recently stumbled upon some schematics for a reverse engineered BBC Master Video ULA. Dammed if I can find the URL. Anybody seen these schematics ? Chris From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Jan 26 07:25:57 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: RT 6150 Lives! (Long!) Message-ID: <26.22260db6.29840865@aol.com> In a message dated 1/25/2002 11:30:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, mcguire@neurotica.com writes: << On January 25, Doc wrote: > > I think there might be a tape controller board of some sort (with no > > drive) in mine. I will crack it open and find out. Do you know what > > the FRU number would be on the 6157? > > Wouldn't it be easier to run diags? It might, but I don't have any. The big pile of RT disks that I got from BSD Bob were mistakenly left in a storage locker in Maryland, and I won't be able to get to them for at least another month. :-( >> I think I have a diagnostice floppy somewhere that I found in a stack of unrelated floppies. Talk about serendipity! I guess regular old diskcopy would work on them. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jan 26 08:53:23 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: SOL video monitor In-Reply-To: <00ab01c1a634$fb407420$ec2ecd18@Smith.earthlink.net> References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1C0@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> <00ab01c1a634$fb407420$ec2ecd18@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: >The Sol price list says that the model no. is PT-872. Thanks Wayne...I've got the various manuals for my SOL and the catalog, but not the pricelist. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 26 00:50:07 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <20020126061708.79017.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Bryan Pope wrote: > > And thusly Richard Erlacher spake: > > > > > > When Netscape was released, it required a third-party "WINSOCK" module > > > that one had to buy from someone, normally "Trumpet" and that P*SSED me > > > off, since I'd previously been able to work with a free version. > > > > Trumpet WinSock was needed with Windows 3.1 because it did not have a > > TCP/IP stack. > > Exactly. MicroSloth didn't provide an IP stack for Winblows until > "Windows for Workgroups" and even then, it wasn't loaded automatically; > you had to go out and download it from MS seperately (but it was free, > providing you knew to go out and look for it). > > You had to go out and get a Winsock no matter what browser or ftp or > telnet client you wanted to use. Either way, though, it was still > better than the options under DOS. It's why I always used something > else as a last hop to the outside. > > I installed Trumpet on a number of Win3.1 machines at McMurdo Station > in 1995, back when Netscape still had a "Throbbing N". Before that, > we used Mosaic. Eventually, we went with WfW 3.11 and the MS TCP/32 > "upgrade". It wasn't great, but it was free. MS TCP/IP32 still did not add support for dialup connections. Its winsock only supported a local network. For a windows 3.x machine, Trumpet basically was the only choice if you wanted to use a modem to connect to an isp. -Toth From ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de Sat Jan 26 04:53:34 2002 From: ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de (Michael Schneider) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1012042415.468.7.camel@silke> Hmmmm, my VAX-11/730 weights MUCH more then me. And i have a NOVIX-NC4000 Computer, with no floating point, no multiply, no divide. But my friends do not respect me for this... I think it's time to change friends 8-) ms On Sat, 2002-01-26 at 03:19, Brian Chase wrote: > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > Hell, *everything* I do is fast -- Winders & Linux! [[ahem... I have a > > dual-processor Athlon MP 1600+ -- dual SCSI, dual LAN, etc... so I realize > > this isn't a fair fight... ;-) ]] > > You're not gonna impress anyone on this list with that candy-pants > quiche-eating system. You can start to get our attention by get a > computer that weighs more than you. Or barring that, we'll respect > you more if your system doesn't have floating point instructions, > or an integer divide, or even an integer multiply. > > -brian. > > -- Michael Schneider email: ms@vaxcluster.de Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de People disagree with me. I just ignore them. (Linus Torvalds) From vance at ikickass.org Sat Jan 26 05:19:09 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <1012042415.468.7.camel@silke> Message-ID: On 26 Jan 2002, Michael Schneider wrote: > Hmmmm, my VAX-11/730 weights MUCH more then me. My S/390's *hard disk* weighs *20 times* as much as me. 8-) Peace... Sridhar From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Jan 26 05:55:25 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > You're not gonna impress anyone on this list with that candy-pants > quiche-eating system. You can start to get our attention by get a > computer that weighs more than you. Or barring that, we'll respect > you more if your system doesn't have floating point instructions, > or an integer divide, or even an integer multiply. You mean like a 'cheap model' IBM System 360. The cheaper ones were rumored to handle multiply operations in software (ick!). Interesting, but not something I would really want to do payroll for a large company with - with it taking about a week to figure out all the different tax percentages (especially today..) -- Pat From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Jan 26 06:47:36 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200201261247.g0QClan01349@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 26 Jan, Julius Sridhar wrote: > My S/390's *hard disk* weighs *20 times* as much as me. 8-) Hard disk? A single hard disk a la DEC RK07? Or a hard disk array? -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Jan 26 06:57:45 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <1012042415.468.7.camel@silke> Message-ID: <200201261257.g0QCvji01368@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Sat, 2002-01-26 at 03:19, Brian Chase wrote: > > Hell, *everything* I do is fast -- Winders & Linux! [[ahem... I have a > > dual-processor Athlon MP 1600+ -- dual SCSI, dual LAN, etc... so I realize > > this isn't a fair fight... ;-) ]] > You're not gonna impress anyone on this list with that candy-pants > quiche-eating system. You can start to get our attention by get a > computer that weighs more than you. Or to say it with an other word from your web site: Throw a VAX on it, and that PeeCee will be flat as paper. ;-) -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Jan 26 10:36:10 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.20020124154618.0147b728@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020126113610.011f18b8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Brian Chase may have mentioned these words: >On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > >> Hell, *everything* I do is fast -- Winders & Linux! [[ahem... I have a >> dual-processor Athlon MP 1600+ -- dual SCSI, dual LAN, etc... so I realize >> this isn't a fair fight... ;-) ]] > >You're not gonna impress anyone on this list with that candy-pants >quiche-eating system. You can start to get our attention by get a >computer that weighs more than you. Or barring that, we'll respect >you more if your system doesn't have floating point instructions, >or an integer divide, or even an integer multiply. I honestly don't know if I ever had a computer that outweighs me - but all of my CoCo1/2/3/peripherals combined outweigh me & all they have is a hardware multiply (6809's are my favorites) - All the vaxen hardware I've rescued combined outweigh me, but as I've not learned assembly on them yet I don't know exactly what instructions they have available. And I do have one 6800 system (heathkit 3400) so it doesn't even have a display beyond 6 7-segment LED's., let alone a hardware MUL. I've repaired enough Tandy laptops (model 100/102/200/600) to probably equal my weight, but as I only have a few (less than 10) I'm sure *they* don't count - but does the mailing list WRT the kyocera OEM'd laptops count? I've only been hosting that for the last 6 years or so. The 192 subscribers most certainly outweigh me in weight and brainpower... I've been on this list since the beginning - you might say I'm a "single-digit sub" along with Tony & Sellam {and 6 others) - back when they didn't let "just anybody" on the list. Does *that* impress you? My question is this: What the fsck does that have to do with anything? It was an off-topic post of an off-topic thread spawned from an off-topic thread - and if you haven't learned it yet, the signal:noise ratio here has a high degree of static. If you _really_ want to get into a pissing match, strap on the asbestos coveralls & lets's start flaming; I have a fresh batch of napalm & a zippo... Or even better: why the fsck do I even need to worry about impressing you? Regards. From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jan 26 09:13:20 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: 6150 keyboard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > > 1) I'm certain that it's re-badged OEM, not IBM-built. All the screws, > > internal and external, are Phillips. > > IBM's keyboards were always built by Lexmark. Recently (a few years ago), > Lexmark spun off their keyboard operation, which was swalllowed up by > Unicomp. This keyboard was built before IBM spun off Lexmark, which means > it was built by IBM. It was a small joke. My private peeve with IBM is that they still haven't learned about Phillips-head screws. Doc From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jan 26 10:30:22 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: Craftsman (was: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > Are you sure that you did not lose your way and go into a Sears store in > > > error? Craftsman is after all a trademark by Sears! > > :o) Yes, I'm sure. The H.D here sells some Craftsman power tools. Long, long ago, ... Craftsman was an independent tool company, and "Companion" was one of it's product lines. Sears bought them out, and made "Craftsman" and "Companion" into Sears product lines ("Companion" became the "economy" crap). Quality was very good. Over the years, the quality slid, and Sears had to rely on a lifetime guarantee to sell the tools. By the late 70s, the broaching wasn't even centered on their sockets and box-ends. If you hold a 50s Craftsman tool next to a 70s Craftsman tool, there is a VISIBLE difference in quality. Amateurs were impressed with the lifetime guarantee, and still liked them, but professional mechanics switched to Snap-On and Mac. ("I'd rather have good tools than a lifetime supply of scrap metal") BTW, MOST tool companies (including Snap-On, Mac, Thorsen, etc.) also have lifetime guarantees. Craftsman tools were available at any Sears store; Snap-On had a few outlets, but sold mostly through trucks that went to garages. (One time, on a cross-country drive, I started having some serious problems with a VW bus, and pulled over a Snap-On truck on the freeway in Ohio in order to buy a 30mm (1 3/16) socket) A few years back, Sears closed a lot of their stores, and even closed down their mail-order and catalog operations! It was quite a shock a few years ago, when I started seeing Craftsman tools for sale at OSH (Orchard Supply Hardware), Home Depot, and even on infomercials on TV! I think that Craftsman is still owned by Sears, but not sure. Anybody know for sure? From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Jan 26 10:36:25 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: RT 6150 Lives! (Long!) In-Reply-To: Re: RT 6150 Lives! (Long!) (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) References: <26.22260db6.29840865@aol.com> Message-ID: <15442.56073.973840.58370@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 26, SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > > Wouldn't it be easier to run diags? > > It might, but I don't have any. The big pile of RT disks that I got > from BSD Bob were mistakenly left in a storage locker in Maryland, and > I won't be able to get to them for at least another month. :-( >> > > I think I have a diagnostice floppy somewhere that I found in a stack of > unrelated floppies. Talk about serendipity! I guess regular old diskcopy > would work on them. Doc put some images up on his FTP server for me. Thanks for the thought, though. :-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jan 26 10:57:11 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: 'Rithmetic? (was: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > You're not gonna impress anyone on this list with that candy-pants > > quiche-eating system. You can start to get our attention by get a > > computer that weighs more than you. Or barring that, we'll respect > > you more if your system doesn't have floating point instructions, > > or an integer divide, or even an integer multiply. > You mean like a 'cheap model' IBM System 360. The cheaper ones were > rumored to handle multiply operations in software (ick!). Interesting, How about the 1620? CADET (Can't Add, Doesn't Even Try) From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Jan 26 11:20:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: 'Rithmetic? (was: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) References: Message-ID: <3C52E541.5C6445DD@jetnet.ab.ca> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > > You're not gonna impress anyone on this list with that candy-pants > > > quiche-eating system. You can start to get our attention by get a > > > computer that weighs more than you. Or barring that, we'll respect > > > you more if your system doesn't have floating point instructions, > > > or an integer divide, or even an integer multiply. > > You mean like a 'cheap model' IBM System 360. The cheaper ones were > > rumored to handle multiply operations in software (ick!). Interesting, > > How about the 1620? CADET (Can't Add, Doesn't Even Try) Nope It does add and multiply, not much else however. Slow core memory and serial processing did not make for a fast machine. Add 160 us + 80*D' us. Mult 560 us + 40*D' us + 168*D'*D" us. Most of the instructions are data transfer and I/O conversion and I/O instructions. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 26 03:26:37 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: Non-profit reselling In-Reply-To: <3C523A0F.EB847DC0@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote: > > The VCF *is* a business, genius. > > You've previously carefully avoided disclosing that fact. When? Where? To whom? If it isn't apparent to you that the VCF is a business then you are obviously as dumb as you come across in your rantings. > It's a business that will never see one slim dime from us. Us? What are you, the Borg? Despite your slim dime, it will make the VCF no less profitable. > We would never recommend you to anyone. Considering that you're Ian Koller (et al?) and what you do or do not do or say has no consequence to my efforts whatsoever, I'm not too worried to have lost your endorsement. > It's because in your attempts to get ahead, you do it by trying to bring > others down. I'm sorry, who's ass did you pull this out of? > I bet if someone got a quote from you on a part, even > at the same time you were telling everyone on the list that > it wasn't worth shit, you'd be quoting it at a rate that > would make you a real living. You want to take your money in, > but we can tell you won't pay anyone else shit. Yeah, you're right. I've gotten rich off of selling old computer crap at inflated prices. That's why I have a warehouse full of this stuff that only seems to grow bigger by the month and I can barely afford my mortgage right now. > You're a one way fuck, and you know it. Actually, I fuck in many creative and exciting ways. But don't take my word for it, ask my girlfriend. > That's why we will never do business with you. We don't do business with The Borg anyway (nor schizophrenics for that matter). What an ass. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jrice at texoma.net Sat Jan 26 11:04:39 2002 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: Craftsman (was: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" References: Message-ID: <3C52E1A7.6020503@texoma.net> It's still a Sear's product line. Companion is used for the Chinese import lines. A of Crfatsman tools are made by a factory in Oklahoma, I think up around either Lawton or Ada. My father was buying seconds from the factory and selling them at flea markets. Mostly cosmetic defects. The factory was supposed to grind off the Craftsman name but most didn't get ground. Some of his customers actually took back broken seconds and got replacements at Sears. Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >>>>Are you sure that you did not lose your way and go into a Sears store in >>>>error? Craftsman is after all a trademark by Sears! >>>> >>> :o) Yes, I'm sure. The H.D here sells some Craftsman power tools. >>> > >Long, long ago, ... >Craftsman was an independent tool company, and "Companion" was one of it's >product lines. >Sears bought them out, and made "Craftsman" and "Companion" into Sears >product lines ("Companion" became the "economy" crap). >Quality was very good. > >Over the years, the quality slid, and Sears had to rely on a lifetime >guarantee to sell the tools. By the late 70s, the broaching wasn't even >centered on their sockets and box-ends. If you hold a 50s Craftsman tool >next to a 70s Craftsman tool, there is a VISIBLE difference in >quality. Amateurs were impressed with the lifetime guarantee, and still >liked them, but professional mechanics switched to Snap-On and Mac. >("I'd rather have good tools than a lifetime supply of scrap metal") >BTW, MOST tool companies (including Snap-On, Mac, Thorsen, etc.) also have >lifetime guarantees. > > >Craftsman tools were available at any Sears store; Snap-On had a few >outlets, but sold mostly through trucks that went to garages. (One time, >on a cross-country drive, I started having some serious problems with a VW >bus, and pulled over a Snap-On truck on the freeway in Ohio in order to >buy a 30mm (1 3/16) socket) > > >A few years back, Sears closed a lot of their stores, and even closed down >their mail-order and catalog operations! > >It was quite a shock a few years ago, when I started seeing Craftsman >tools for sale at OSH (Orchard Supply Hardware), Home Depot, and even on >infomercials on TV! > > >I think that Craftsman is still owned by Sears, but not sure. Anybody >know for sure? > > >. > From mythtech at Mac.com Sat Jan 26 11:42:07 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: Craftsman (was: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" Message-ID: <200201261742.g0QHg9N22922@ns2.ezwind.net> >It was quite a shock a few years ago, when I started seeing Craftsman >tools for sale at OSH (Orchard Supply Hardware) OSH is a Sears company, so is I believe "Village Hardware", they are their Home Depot competition stores. -chris From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 26 12:55:08 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020126185508.12480.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tothwolf wrote: > On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > ...Eventually, we went with WfW 3.11 and the MS TCP/32 > > "upgrade". It wasn't great, but it was free. > > MS TCP/IP32 still did not add support for dialup connections. Its winsock > only supported a local network. For a windows 3.x machine, Trumpet > basically was the only choice if you wanted to use a modem to connect to > an isp. Ah... didn't realize that. As I said, I was never one to do dial-up. I was putting Windows machines on a LAN with a router to the outside world, one way or another. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jan 26 11:38:21 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: <20020126045820.FWVE16289.tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <003401c1a690$3feeca80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You're thinking about a PC-CHIPS mobo, which came out a little later than the first "fast" '286 I got. The one I kept, however, was a later PC-CHIPS NEAT mobo, which used the IIT '287, which was designed from the gound up to run at the higher rates compatible with the CMOS parts produced by vendors like Harris. It was a mite tricky to operate, but once you had the tools and read the data sheets, it was quite impressive and quite solid. I found (and still find) the NEAT mobo to be VERY useful, having worked for a company that produced a software set that enabled one to load drivers in the adapter space and produced boards that mapped a modest amount of memory into that space, on 512K or 640K PC/AT's. One thing I did determine back then was that Win3.0 and later, v3.1x, ran faster on the '286 at a given clock rate than did a '386 at the same rate. I suppose this was at least in part because the first thing the software did was lie to the CPU and tell it, "OK ... you're a '286 now ..." By '91, folks were playing with their '486's. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 4:58 PM Subject: Re: Bell & Howell Apple II update > > From: "Richard Erlacher" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Bell & Howell Apple II update > > Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 20:58:06 -0700 > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > My 25 MHz '286 w/IIT '287 and 8 MB of RAM cost about $400 including the box, > > > > cost $2375, IIRC. > > > > They never did build a microVAX that would outrun that 25 MHz '286. > > Lucky to u on that 1.2GB monsters. About right for that time, GASP! > > That 286 25MHz motherboard is certainly pcchips. what a POS and had > few 286-20 also. Having 287XL in it doesn't work too well! > > That was back in 1991 or so. > > Cheers, > > Wizard Had homebuilt of POS cacheless 386-25 shitbox when I was > new to the PC w/ whopping 80MB IDE. :-D I learned better after few > problems w/ 486 boards then went w/ Asus and quality parts. > > > > Dick > > From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Sat Jan 26 12:40:52 2002 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (jos.mar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: Probably OT : Atari anti-aircraft game.... Message-ID: <3C52F834.E9AC6536@bluewin.ch> I don't know if it is valuable and/or collectible, but for those interested in old games consoles : a complete looking 1975 Atari anti-aircraft game is available at a local Salvation Army shop. (Local is : Zurich, Switzerland . jos Dreesen From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jan 26 11:26:04 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) References: Message-ID: <002201c1a68e$8a1fef00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'm not sure you're right about that, since I used Mosaic with some other (non-TRUMPET) WINSOCK that I'd snagged. Further, the Netcruiser that was supplied by Netcom didn't require a third-party WINSOCK, though it was tricky (trickier than I could manage) to use it with other browsers. There were a couple of third-party WINSOCK modules that one could download on a trial basis, and I lived on those up to the point at which MS released Win95's WINSOCK. Making one work with Win32S was not trivial, since they didn't all do that. The ICOMM software went a long way if you had only shell access, though. I provided the appearance of a graphical browser, though it did that by using shell-accessible features at the ISP, though it ran the graphical stuff locally, thereby giving the appearance of a graphical browser. It didn't need a WINSOCK, since it ran the IP stack at the ISP end. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" To: Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 11:50 PM Subject: Re: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) > On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Bryan Pope wrote: > > > And thusly Richard Erlacher spake: > > > > > > > > When Netscape was released, it required a third-party "WINSOCK" module > > > > that one had to buy from someone, normally "Trumpet" and that P*SSED me > > > > off, since I'd previously been able to work with a free version. > > > > > > Trumpet WinSock was needed with Windows 3.1 because it did not have a > > > TCP/IP stack. > > > > Exactly. MicroSloth didn't provide an IP stack for Winblows until > > "Windows for Workgroups" and even then, it wasn't loaded automatically; > > you had to go out and download it from MS seperately (but it was free, > > providing you knew to go out and look for it). > > > > You had to go out and get a Winsock no matter what browser or ftp or > > telnet client you wanted to use. Either way, though, it was still > > better than the options under DOS. It's why I always used something > > else as a last hop to the outside. > > > > I installed Trumpet on a number of Win3.1 machines at McMurdo Station > > in 1995, back when Netscape still had a "Throbbing N". Before that, > > we used Mosaic. Eventually, we went with WfW 3.11 and the MS TCP/32 > > "upgrade". It wasn't great, but it was free. > > MS TCP/IP32 still did not add support for dialup connections. Its winsock > only supported a local network. For a windows 3.x machine, Trumpet > basically was the only choice if you wanted to use a modem to connect to > an isp. > > -Toth > > From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Jan 26 11:01:24 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: Sniing was Re: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020125153833.007d5a00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020126105031.022256f0@pc> At 09:09 PM 1/25/2002 -0600, Tothwolf wrote: >I was quite sick when I saw the seller trying to sell these off to >uneducated buyers on ebay for $50 each. If someone had indeed bought one >at that price, they would have been tempted to try to repair it when it >did not work. People qualified to work on these units would tend to be >educated buyers and not even consider paying $50 for a dead unit. What are you suggesting? That a warning label might've saved their lives, or just saved them from parting from their cash? Or that the auctioneer's job is to accurately represent the state of each gizmo, as opposed to saying "all sales as-is and final", which is far easier and still manages to attract plenty of buyers. (This reminds me of the old marketing joke "If Company X was in charge of Kentucky Fried Chicken, they'd call the product "Hot Dead Chicken." Just to keep it on-topic, I know this joke was repeated quite often in the Commodore market over the years.) The whole point of an auction is that it's a good way to maximize profit while making a big pile of junk disappear. Evaluating the goods (accurately or professionally) and warning the buyers about nitpicks isn't profitable. Maybe someone buys dead UPSes to recover the lead in the batteries, who knows. And auctions are great fun for game theorists and economists, many of whom have made careers and won gold medals for determining nifty phenomena such as the way that the winner tends to overpay. - John From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jan 26 13:20:46 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020126113610.011f18b8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > Or even better: why the fsck do I even need to worry about impressing you? > > You go, Roger! Git 'em! Doc From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 26 13:54:42 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <002201c1a68e$8a1fef00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > On Sat, 25 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > MS TCP/IP32 still did not add support for dialup connections. Its winsock > > only supported a local network. For a windows 3.x machine, Trumpet > > basically was the only choice if you wanted to use a modem to connect to > > an isp. > > I'm not sure you're right about that, since I used Mosaic with some > other (non-TRUMPET) WINSOCK that I'd snagged. Further, the Netcruiser > that was supplied by Netcom didn't require a third-party WINSOCK, > though it was tricky (trickier than I could manage) to use it with > other browsers. There were a couple of third-party WINSOCK modules > that one could download on a trial basis, and I lived on those up to > the point at which MS released Win95's WINSOCK. Making one work with > Win32S was not trivial, since they didn't all do that. The Netcruiser software package was Netcom only software (written in VB). AFAIK there wasn't any way to make it work with another isp, short of editing the program binaries. I used Netcruiser myself for a short time, and never had any problems making it work with Netscape or Mosiac. The real problem I had with Netcruiser was instability and latency compared to a more "standard" winsock package like Trumpet. IIRC, at the time, Trumpet was the only game in town. I imagine a few other winsocks were developed soon after by others in an attempt to cash in on Trumpet's success. Are you referring to the Win32S package that could be added to stock win3.1/3.11? I never had a problem making a 3rd party winsock work fine with it. I did however see many people try to load the same 3rd party 16 bit winsocks on Win95, which expected to have a 32 bit winsock for 32 bit applications. This caused many headaches for a large number of people. > The ICOMM software went a long way if you had only shell access, > though. I provided the appearance of a graphical browser, though it > did that by using shell-accessible features at the ISP, though it ran > the graphical stuff locally, thereby giving the appearance of a > graphical browser. It didn't need a WINSOCK, since it ran the IP > stack at the ISP end. I never used the ICOMM software you describe. The first TCP/IP I had access to at home was slip. I used a unix program called slirp with trumpet for quite awhile before I moved to a standard slip/ppp connection. -Toth From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sat Jan 26 15:29:56 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020126113610.011f18b8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Or even better: why the fsck do I even need to worry about impressing you? > > Regards. My apologies. Your Athlon comment threw me. -brian. From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Jan 26 09:28:31 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: T1000XE In-Reply-To: <000f01c1a674$ad3603e0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <20020126202759.IEDL26820.tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Sipke de Wal" > To: > Subject: Re: T1000XE > Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 15:20:57 +0100 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > I'll take it that the config is somewhere in a kinda > CMOS-ram. So I would disconnect every battery in the > machine for a couple of minutes to half an hour > (there are always elco's), Then reconnect and reboot That T1000XE uses standard 2.5" ATA HD, 20MB only due to hard-wired bios. Usually Conner. HD is removeable from notebook without disassembly. Flip over that notebook, there's the hatch silver label w/ two screws and locking slider, undo all, slide the hatch (to disconnect HD from motherboard) then take it out. Screws for holding HD to hatch is hidden under same silver sticker. CMOS stubby battery is lithium, other one long NiCd "pencil" battery (made of four NiCd AAAA cells) under the keyboard near front is for battery-backed ram disk. On Toshiba's cmos, disconnecting cmos battery, cmos data erase is instantanous. FYI: this notebook WILL NOT start if main 7.2V battery is not present or dead. That is for sure because I had this problem. Toshiba still have utility for setting up CMOS for older series. Oh yeah, this is one of rare few XT machines that supports 1.44MB floppies. (!!) Cheers, Wizard From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Jan 26 09:28:31 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: <003401c1a690$3feeca80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20020126202805.IEFZ26820.tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Richard Erlacher" > To: > Subject: Re: Bell & Howell Apple II update > Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 10:38:21 -0700 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > You're thinking about a PC-CHIPS mobo, which came out a little later than the > first "fast" '286 I got. The one I kept, however, was a later PC-CHIPS NEAT Hmm... I'm not referring to chipset maker, I'm referring to maker of MB pcchips used to do "PC Mate" I think also. I agree CHIPS is good chipset on 286 boards especially single chipset type. But I'm not too impressed w/ 386 and 486 that used CHIPS chipsets, lackluster performance and very delicate both settings and they breakdown easily. 82C206 is always blowing like fuses for any reason especially by CHIPS, anything else that made this clone of this 82C206 is much better. I remmeber now, CHIPS is Chipset and Technologies, in short: C&T. > One thing I did determine back then was that Win3.0 and later, v3.1x, ran > faster on the '286 at a given clock rate than did a '386 at the same rate. I > suppose this was at least in part because the first thing the software did was > lie to the CPU and tell it, "OK ... you're a '286 now ..." Yuk. My primary reasons for having 386DX early on was full 32bits and speed, games likes 386DX. (WC II) I can buy a 386SX board but that's kidding myself to straw-pipe of 16 bits to memory. > By '91, folks were playing with their '486's. I got it well after '93, AMD 486DX 40 o/c'ed to 50 once I found a good motherboard for it much later, turned out a clone motherboard w/ SiS 460, 8 pieces of cache chips for 256K, 2 xVLB. > Dick Cheers, Wizard From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jan 26 13:18:50 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: RT 6150 Lives! (Long!) In-Reply-To: <15442.56073.973840.58370@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > Doc put some images up on his FTP server for me. Thanks for the > thought, though. :-) As much as I'd like to take credit for that (and as much as I wish I owned that domain name), it ain't mine. All that was there when I found it. Doc From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jan 26 13:38:05 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: Non-profit reselling In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > It's a business that will never see one slim dime from us. > Us? What are you, the Borg? Despite your slim dime, it will make the VCF > no less profitable. > > We would never recommend you to anyone. "The only folk that can legitimately use 'we' when referring to themselves are editors, crowned heads of state, and people with tapeworm." - Mark Twain I haven't seen a published periodical nor trappings of royalty. I guess that we'll have to take his word for it. > > but we can tell you won't pay anyone else shit. I don't know Ian, nor what the current brouhaha is about. But when I had to close my business, and get rid of many cubic yards of stuff, Sellam was an immense help. He always acted with complete integrity. Although the prices that he wants to pay may seem way too low to some people, he freely advised me about who else to contact for selling stuff, and even estimated what stuff would bring on e-bay! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 26 14:07:38 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: Sniing was Re: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020126105031.022256f0@pc> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, John Foust wrote: > At 09:09 PM 1/25/2002 -0600, Tothwolf wrote: > > > I was quite sick when I saw the seller trying to sell these off to > > uneducated buyers on ebay for $50 each. If someone had indeed bought > > one at that price, they would have been tempted to try to repair it > > when it did not work. People qualified to work on these units would > > tend to be educated buyers and not even consider paying $50 for a dead > > unit. > > What are you suggesting? That a warning label might've saved their > lives, or just saved them from parting from their cash? Or that the > auctioneer's job is to accurately represent the state of each gizmo, > as opposed to saying "all sales as-is and final", which is far easier > and still manages to attract plenty of buyers. What I am saying, is that I often see idiot wannabe dealers overpay for *junk* at the local auctions, not even knowing what they are buying, all the while thinking they can make a fast buck off of "suckers" on ebay. Had the guy posted a note saying "as-is" or "nonworking", I still would have thought it insane for the guy to be trying to sell *nonworking* units for $50 mininum bid when a brand new *working* unit can be bought for the same price. I don't think anyone ended up buying any of them at $50, but this was obviously a case of a bad seller. > The whole point of an auction is that it's a good way to maximize > profit while making a big pile of junk disappear. Evaluating the goods > (accurately or professionally) and warning the buyers about nitpicks > isn't profitable. Again, what I am getting at is ebay itself has spawned a whole new generation of get-rich-quick idiots who buy up stuff at local auctions for inflated prices and try to sell it at an even higher price on ebay. > Maybe someone buys dead UPSes to recover the lead in the batteries, > who knows. I've bought many dead UPS myself. The amount of lead contained in a typical UPS is next to worthless. I find a hard time just finding a place locally that will take the stuff for free. The city won't take sealed lead acid batteries because they don't look like automotive batteries. -Toth From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Jan 26 15:23:17 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: Sniing was Re: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.0.20020126105031.022256f0@pc> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020126152046.022b5e70@pc> At 02:07 PM 1/26/2002 -0600, Tothwolf wrote: >What I am saying, is that I often see idiot wannabe dealers overpay for >*junk* at the local auctions, not even knowing what they are buying, all >the while thinking they can make a fast buck off of "suckers" on ebay. This behavior is self-limiting due to finite pocketbooks. We can't make the poor go away, and we can't prevent poor business sense. >Again, what I am getting at is ebay itself has spawned a whole new >generation of get-rich-quick idiots who buy up stuff at local auctions for >inflated prices and try to sell it at an even higher price on ebay. And that's all because you *can* make money buying low and selling high, depending on exactly what it is that you can become expert enough to acquire and sell. There's been plenty of times when I've bought something for $100 or less and sold it for $1000 or more. I may be getting old, but that's exciting. - John From als at thangorodrim.de Sat Jan 26 15:45:12 2002 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020126214512.GA26055@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Thu, Jan 24, 2002 at 10:13:02PM +0000, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Lawrence LeMay said: > > > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 > > > perhaps... > > [...] > > > non-current printers > > Well, if anyone knows a source of HPIL printers, or even good HPIB ones > (in the UK, please), let me know. They are a lot more valuable than C64s, > etc, and there's no obvious replacement still being made... For HPIB you might try to look for the HP ThinkJet, it's available with a HPIB interface too. It's a simple inkjet, with a quality comparable to a 9 pin dot matrix printer. They are no longer made, of course, to you should look for it the at the usual places for old hardware (including EBay, where you also can get the ink for more reasonable (just paid $20 for 8 ink cartridges - the regular price seems to be around $ 20-25 for a single one) prices). Regards, Alex. -- 9./10. M?rz: 4. Chemnitzer Linux-Tag http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/linux/tag/ "I sense much NT in you. NT leads to Blue Screen, Blue Screen leads to downtime, downtime leads to suffering. NT is the path to the Dark Side." -- Ellsworth, one small voice From Bernd.Kopriva at t-online.de Sat Jan 12 11:47:34 2002 From: Bernd.Kopriva at t-online.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: Looking for Software/Documentation for a Definicon 68020 board (and / or another Definicon baord) Message-ID: <16UZlg-1nEHY0C@fwd03.sul.t-online.com> Hi, some months ago, i got a Definicon 68020 co-processor board without any software and documentation. Paul Santa-Maria send me some software, but i did not manage to get the board working ... ... maybe the software was not the correct one or the board is defect. As i'm really interested in getting the board running, i'm asking again for any software / documentation. Maybe someone can offer me another board (i'm especially interested in the NS32032 board as well) at a reasonable price. Thanks Bernd Bernd Kopriva Phone: ++49-7195-179452 Weilerstr. 24 E-Mail: bernd@kopriva.de D-71397 Leutenbach Germany From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 26 13:32:27 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: from "Brian Chase" at Jan 25, 2 06:19:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 438 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020126/82cb8330/attachment.ksh From bpope at wordstock.com Sat Jan 26 16:19:26 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: from "Julius Sridhar" at Jan 26, 02 06:19:09 am Message-ID: <200201262219.RAA28301@wordstock.com> And thusly Julius Sridhar spake: > > On 26 Jan 2002, Michael Schneider wrote: > > > Hmmmm, my VAX-11/730 weights MUCH more then me. > > My S/390's *hard disk* weighs *20 times* as much as me. 8-) > O!.. Ok.. Do not drop them on your foot. These aren't the ones that are over a foot wide in a clear plastic? case with a handle in the centre to carry or lock them in place? BrYan From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 26 14:50:24 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:11 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <00a201c1a61d$eb0c5180$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jan 25, 2 08:59:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1036 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020126/726a16d9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 26 15:44:37 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <91.17280d6b.2983cebf@aol.com> from "CLeyson@aol.com" at Jan 26, 2 04:19:59 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 856 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020126/dc2d0e98/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 26 14:54:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: <007801c1a61a$cadc99e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jan 25, 2 08:37:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1193 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020126/17acbe51/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 26 15:30:46 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: Z-100 serial ports In-Reply-To: <20020126054928.WEEH13958.imf07bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> from "Glen Goodwin" at Jan 26, 2 00:21:44 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 5535 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020126/9d320a19/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 26 15:34:12 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: 6150 keyboard In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Jan 26, 2 00:08:42 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 786 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020126/ee41c24d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 26 15:48:11 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: 6150 keyboard In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Jan 26, 2 09:13:20 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 448 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020126/c763eea0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 26 15:40:22 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: IBM 3101 Dip Switches Configuration In-Reply-To: <20020126063608.20249.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jan 25, 2 10:36:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1732 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020126/ab6d4739/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 26 15:41:23 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: SOL video monitor In-Reply-To: <00ab01c1a634$fb407420$ec2ecd18@Smith.earthlink.net> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Jan 25, 2 10:45:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 398 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020126/8d9921cd/attachment.ksh From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 26 16:28:03 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: Sniing was Re: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020126152046.022b5e70@pc> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, John Foust wrote: > At 02:07 PM 1/26/2002 -0600, Tothwolf wrote: > > >What I am saying, is that I often see idiot wannabe dealers overpay for > >*junk* at the local auctions, not even knowing what they are buying, all > >the while thinking they can make a fast buck off of "suckers" on ebay. > > This behavior is self-limiting due to finite pocketbooks. We can't > make the poor go away, and we can't prevent poor business sense. True. I have seen this happen twice with UPS units, and each time is was a different person. I just hate to think what they end up doing with all those dead UPS once they realize they can't sell them on ebay. Before these kinds of people started showing up at local auctions, I'd buy the units, refurbish as many of them as possible, and sell them at *cost* to local schools, friends, and so on. Due to these kinds of people, more and more repairable equipment (and lead batteries) are going to end up in landfills. > >Again, what I am getting at is ebay itself has spawned a whole new > >generation of get-rich-quick idiots who buy up stuff at local auctions for > >inflated prices and try to sell it at an even higher price on ebay. > > And that's all because you *can* make money buying low and selling > high, depending on exactly what it is that you can become expert > enough to acquire and sell. The problem I see is that many of the people trying to buy low and sell high are self proclaimed experts who do not know what the low or high price for their goods should actually be. They make it much more difficult for informed buyers to get the same goods at a *fair* price. > There's been plenty of times when I've bought something for $100 or > less and sold it for $1000 or more. I may be getting old, but that's > exciting. That is exciting, but at the same time, you likely already had some idea when you paid $100 for something that is was a very good deal. I don't have a problem with someone making money with ebay. I do have a problem with wannabe dealers messing up the local auctions by bidding things up higher then they are worth, and then trying unsuccessfully to sell them at extremely high prices on ebay. -Toth From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Jan 26 16:52:51 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: Sniing was Re: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.0.20020126152046.022b5e70@pc> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020126165219.0222d140@pc> At 04:28 PM 1/26/2002 -0600, Tothwolf wrote: > I do have a problem >with wannabe dealers messing up the local auctions by bidding things up >higher then they are worth, and then trying unsuccessfully to sell them at >extremely high prices on ebay. You haven't been to enough auctions. You'll get over it. :-) - John From fdebros at verizon.net Sat Jan 26 16:29:48 2002 From: fdebros at verizon.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: Wanted: manual for Toshiba T4800CT docking station In-Reply-To: <200201211632.g0LGWSW29271@morse.Colorado.EDU> Message-ID: <000501c1a6b8$f92a5960$6501a8c0@fred> U don't need a manual! There are two isa bays One could fit a ide board for a second hdd or what I have a scsi board for the scsi cd The other goodies in it are a bigger videomemory for 800x600 display To open, all u need is the two screws right hand side in the back....slide out the left side panel so u gget access to the bay. Not muck with the key. Pop the fdd bezel unless u want a second hdd in there U can also have a second ide cdrom in there, just remember to set the jumpers so as to disable the first ide port! Ur bios on the t4800 should be 5.0 for sure. As to scsi setups, I haven't been able to recognize all scssis on all my t46-49x'es....i be darned if someone can help me out there, but the regular win98 bootdisk doesn't recognize my scsi cdroms....suse linux does! Fred -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of pb@Colorado.EDU Sent: Monday, 21 January, 2002 11.32 To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Wanted: manual for Toshiba T4800CT docking station Hi. I'm wondering if anyone has any documentation for the docking station for a Toshiba T4800CT laptop. I'm embarassed to admit that I can't even figure out how to access the drive bay on the station. For those of you with extensive collections (or access to extensive documentation libraries), the part number for the docking station is PA2701U, and it's called a "Desk Station IV." Thanks in advance. PB Schechter From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jan 26 16:30:49 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: SOL video monitor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > > Does anybody recall what model Panasonic TV was shown in the >> > SOL catalog for use as a video monitor? >> >> I assume you are already familiar with the text from the catalog: >> >> "Here's an 11" diagonal completely solid state >> black and white television specially modified for > >'Completely solid state'? What, no CRT? At that date I am seriously >impressed.... But I guess not. It does include a CRT but touts that it is 'Solid State' on the face of the TV much the same way Zenith used to use the same thing as a marketing tool with it's TV's. The Panasonic TV I have with my SOL was produced in November 1977 and prominently displays 'Solid State' on the faceplate. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jan 26 16:44:17 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: <20020126202805.IEFZ26820.tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <001501c1a6ba$fcfdbda0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 8:28 AM Subject: Re: Bell & Howell Apple II update > > From: "Richard Erlacher" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Bell & Howell Apple II update > > Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 10:38:21 -0700 > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > You're thinking about a PC-CHIPS mobo, which came out a little later than the > > first "fast" '286 I got. The one I kept, however, was a later PC-CHIPS NEAT > > Hmm... > > I'm not referring to chipset maker, I'm referring to maker of MB > pcchips used to do "PC Mate" I think also. I agree CHIPS is good > chipset on 286 boards especially single chipset type. But I'm not > too impressed w/ 386 and 486 that used CHIPS chipsets, lackluster > performance and very delicate both settings and they breakdown > easily. 82C206 is always blowing like fuses for any reason > especially by CHIPS, anything else that made this clone of this > 82C206 is much better. I remember now, CHIPS is Chipset and > Technologies, in short: C&T. > Well, the databook say "chips and technologies" but that's close enough ... The 82C206 is the part that lived the longest of all the parts in these sets. It's the one with the clock/calendar, etc in it. They even used it with the '386's and early '486's before they put the I/O board components, i.e. FDC, serial ports, parallel port, etc, on the motherboard. If they broke, it was usually from some form of abuse and even that was difficult to do. > > > One thing I did determine back then was that Win3.0 and later, v3.1x, ran > > faster on the '286 at a given clock rate than did a '386 at the same rate. I > > suppose this was at least in part because the first thing the software did was > > lie to the CPU and tell it, "OK ... you're a '286 now ..." > > Yuk. > Well, there was little installed base of '386 software. > > My primary reasons for having 386DX early on was full 32bits and > speed, games likes 386DX. (WC II) I can buy a 386SX board but > that's kidding myself to straw-pipe of 16 bits to memory. > I had a Peltier-cooled '386 running at 50 MHz for some time. It worked fine, though it wasn't easy finding memory that would track it. Some of the cache chips weren't even available in speeds suitable for a 50 MHz '386 back then, particularly since most cache designs were single-line write-through caches. > > > By '91, folks were playing with their '486's. > > I got it well after '93, AMD 486DX 40 o/c'ed to 50 once I found a > good motherboard for it much later, turned out a clone motherboard w/ > SiS 460, 8 pieces of cache chips for 256K, 2 xVLB. > > Cheers, > > Wizard > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jan 26 16:50:19 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) References: Message-ID: <002701c1a6bb$d480f1c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> What the ICOMM software did was to provide a means for providing local graphical presentation for data acquired from the host, not running PPP, but running the shell. You told ICOMM what you wanted and it figured out what to tell your shell interface to do, then it took the data that was returned to you and presented it graphically. There weren't many fancy graphic sites back then, so it wasn't really much better than LYNX, but it did format the stuff so you thought that you had a graphical interface, though it wasn't a real GUI. It showed the user what could be done, though there wasn't much other than text to surf on the web, back then, and the WWW had not been "commercialized" yet, since the gov hadn't yet given its OK for commercial web use. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" To: Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 12:54 PM Subject: Re: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) > On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > On Sat, 25 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > > The ICOMM software went a long way if you had only shell access, > > though. I provided the appearance of a graphical browser, though it > > did that by using shell-accessible features at the ISP, though it ran > > the graphical stuff locally, thereby giving the appearance of a > > graphical browser. It didn't need a WINSOCK, since it ran the IP > > stack at the ISP end. > > I never used the ICOMM software you describe. The first TCP/IP I had > access to at home was slip. I used a unix program called slirp with > trumpet for quite awhile before I moved to a standard slip/ppp connection. > > -Toth > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 26 16:07:15 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <20020126214512.GA26055@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> from "Alexander Schreiber" at Jan 26, 2 10:45:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1665 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020126/1e03f0ae/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jan 26 16:24:16 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <20020126214512.GA26055@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> References: <20020126214512.GA26055@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> Message-ID: >For HPIB you might try to look for the HP ThinkJet, it's available with >a HPIB interface too. It's a simple inkjet, with a quality comparable to >a 9 pin dot matrix printer. They are no longer made, of course, to you >should look for it the at the usual places for old hardware (including >EBay, where you also can get the ink for more reasonable (just paid $20 >for 8 ink cartridges - the regular price seems to be around $ 20-25 >for a single one) prices). Nice little printer....very compact too. It was my first exposure to inkjet printers. It was available with a number of different interfaces, including parallel and HPIB. I think it was also available with a serial interface as well. Wasn't there a version that was battery powered? I often wish I still had one. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From CLeyson at aol.com Sat Jan 26 16:30:36 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards Message-ID: <9c.19fd84fc.2984880c@aol.com> In a message dated 26/01/02 14:22:32 Pacific Standard Time, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes: > HP85s have 2 ways of chewing tapes, both fixable (normally). If the > optical EOT sensor fails, then it'll run the tape off the spool. Often > just cleaning the sensor will fix it. If not, then the electronics is not > that complicated IIRC. > > The other (and more common) way is for the drive roller to run to glue. I > have heard that silicone rubber tubing of the right diamter will fix > this. As I've got some other HP machines where this has happened (9825, > 9831, etc) I am going to have to investigate the exact methods of repair. > It's the old "drive roller turned to glue" problem. I need to fix a 9825 as well. I tried a few TV/HI-FI repair shops and asked "where can I get one of these or something similar ?" My question was followed by "Have you got a part Number ? " Grrrrrr :-( Chris From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Jan 26 17:00:39 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) References: <200201262219.RAA28301@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <3C533517.640A1D@jetnet.ab.ca> Bryan Pope wrote: > > And thusly Julius Sridhar spake: > > > > On 26 Jan 2002, Michael Schneider wrote: > > > > > Hmmmm, my VAX-11/730 weights MUCH more then me. > > > > My S/390's *hard disk* weighs *20 times* as much as me. 8-) > > > > O!.. Ok.. Do not drop them on your foot. > > These aren't the ones that are over a foot wide in a clear plastic? case > with a handle in the centre to carry or lock them in place? > > BrYan Once long ago I had a IBM-2310 Disk storage unit ( single drive ). Nothing like 250+ LB floppy capacity drive running off of 240 VAC. With a 500,000 16 bit word capacity per removable media many aps never used a file sytem but just wrote directly to the disk. Now days 1 Meg will not even boot a OS.:( -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 26 17:08:32 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: Sniing was Re: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020126165219.0222d140@pc> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, John Foust wrote: > At 04:28 PM 1/26/2002 -0600, Tothwolf wrote: > > > I do have a problem > >with wannabe dealers messing up the local auctions by bidding things up > >higher then they are worth, and then trying unsuccessfully to sell them at > >extremely high prices on ebay. > > You haven't been to enough auctions. You'll get over it. :-) I've been to pleanty...but the best ones here locally have been hit hard lately by those get-rich-quick types. -Toth From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jan 26 17:16:41 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <3C533517.640A1D@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <200201262219.RAA28301@wordstock.com> <3C533517.640A1D@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: >never used a file sytem but just wrote directly to the disk. Now days >1 Meg will not even boot a OS.:( That's one of the reasons I always liked the Amiga's OS. Granted, it didn't have all the latest bells and whistles that the Windows and Mac have, or some of the stuff that more mature OS's had, such as VMS and Unix, but for it's footprint size it was quite full featured, especially considering the GUI and the way it intereacted with the underlying kernel. The Amiga OS on a fast 68060 CPU is still quite a capable 'Net machine with much less RAM and a fraction of the clockspeed of current machines. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sat Jan 26 17:20:56 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > What about one with no hardware add (or subtract)? No, I don't own an > IBM 1620, but my HP9100 calculator has no adder either. Just increment > and decrememnt circuitry. Yeah, that counts. -brian. From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jan 26 17:20:52 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: 6150 keyboard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > What, that Phillips head screws are a pain in the backside, you mean? No, I mean that they're better than slots. Granted that a lot of the later workstations have mostly hex-heads, in many places it's a plain slotted panhead. Pretty cheesy on a $5000-$15000 machine. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jan 26 17:27:31 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: 6150 keyboard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > Control-[ ? Or doesn't that generate an escape on this machine? D'oh!! I used Ctrl-[ on some of my DEC serial terminals, until I found a kbd that still had the function keys labelled, but it never occurred to me here. > I guess you'd expect IBM to have hex-head screws (to be undone with a > nutdriver), right? Anything besides the slotted panheads you find on pre-PowerPC workstations.... > Indeed. Often all you need is the confidence to go in there and fix it. I > generally tell myself that I can't be beaten by simple electronics or > mechanics. And for some odd reason that's true most of the time :-) That's usually my attitude, but the last time I took a keyboard apart, a cheap PC clone, I picked up tiny springs for an hour. Not worth the hassle. Doc From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Sat Jan 26 18:18:40 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: Non-profit reselling References: Message-ID: <3C534760.8C24390C@verizon.net> different day, my tapeworm and I have no more time for it. "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > > It's a business that will never see one slim dime from us. > > Us? What are you, the Borg? Despite your slim dime, it will make the VCF > > no less profitable. > > > We would never recommend you to anyone. > > "The only folk that can legitimately use 'we' when > referring to themselves are editors, crowned heads of state, > and people with tapeworm." - Mark Twain > I haven't seen a published periodical nor trappings of royalty. I guess > that we'll have to take his word for it. > > > > but we can tell you won't pay anyone else shit. > > I don't know Ian, nor what the current brouhaha is about. > But when I had to close my business, and get rid of many cubic yards of > stuff, Sellam was an immense help. He always acted with complete > integrity. Although the prices that he wants to pay may seem way too low > to some people, he freely advised me about who else to contact for selling > stuff, and even estimated what stuff would bring on e-bay! > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Sat Jan 26 18:21:38 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: Non-profit reselling References: Message-ID: <3C534812.97650325@verizon.net> That's already been done. I just ignored his last word. Doc wrote: > > Sellam, Ian, > IMHO, this kind of personal battle has absolutely no place on any > mailing list. > Please, would you both Do The Right Thing, and take it off-list? > > Thank you very much. > Doc From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Sat Jan 26 18:26:58 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: Non-profit reselling References: Message-ID: <3C534952.F7D690B8@verizon.net> That we didn't include you. My comments aren't for everyone, however, most of the time, there has been at least some that found something beneficial in them, but you are welcome to skip over them as you please. Tothwolf wrote: > > On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote: > > On Fri, 25 Jan 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > > The VCF *is* a business, genius. > > > > You've previously carefully avoided disclosing that fact. It's a > > business that will never see one slim dime from us. We would never > > recommend you to anyone. It's not because of what you charge. You may > > be worth every bit of that. You might even be worth ten times that. > > It's because in your attempts to get ahead, you do it by trying to > > bring others down. I bet if someone got a quote from you on a part, > > even at the same time you were telling everyone on the list that it > > wasn't worth shit, you'd be quoting it at a rate that would make you a > > real living. You want to take your money in, but we can tell you won't > > pay anyone else shit. You're a one way fuck, and you know it. That's > > why we will never do business with you. > > Who is this "we" you are speaking of? I certainly don't align myself with > *you*, Ian. > > Since I joined this last last year, many of the posts I've seen from you > have been nothing more than personal attacks on others and other assorted > ranting and raving. You seem to feel the need to show off and show that > you are better than everyone else. I personally find your latest postings > offensive and imagine a good many others here on classiccmp do as well. If > you feel the need to use that kind of language, take it elsewhere! > > And by the way, Ian, if you feel the need to reply to this email, do *not* > CC: it to me. > > -Toth From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 26 17:21:08 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <9c.19fd84fc.2984880c@aol.com> from "CLeyson@aol.com" at Jan 26, 2 05:30:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1041 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020126/f00c8d35/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 26 17:29:25 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Jan 26, 2 05:24:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2195 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020126/2080c5ee/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jan 26 19:06:15 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > Nice little printer....very compact too. It was my first >> exposure to inkjet printers. It was available with a number of >> different interfaces, including parallel and HPIB. I think it was > >Originally there were 4 models : Thanks for all the info on the Thinkjet. I had bought mine second hand in the mid '90s and didn't know all of that. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Jan 26 19:39:18 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk's message of "Sat, 26 Jan 2002 23:29:25 +0000 (GMT)" References: Message-ID: <200201270139.g0R1dJY85205@daemonweed.reanimators.org> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > The 2225B was the original battery powered unit (runs off 6 sub-C NiCd > cells in a special HP battery pack [1]). It was designed to be used with > portable computers and calculators (HP41, HP71, HP75, HP110). The only > problem is that there is no way to fix a paper supply to it. Presumably > you're supposed to take a stack of fanfold paper, the printer, the > printer stand, and the HPIL cables around with you. Then find a desk to > set the stand and printer on, feed in the paper and print something. Printer stands to go with Thinkjets? Luxury! Where I worked at the time we didn't buy them, not even for the HP-IB ones that pretty much stayed where they were. Most folks either stacked the paper somewhere behind the printer and dealt with the resulting loss of desk space and/or mess of tangled supply paper, printer paper, and cables; or kludged a stand out of an empty cardboard box. > Quite honestly I've never had to print anything in a location where > there's a desk but no mains supply. But anyway... It saved you having to fuss with the wall wart until you ran the battery down. But you're right, we had a couple HP-IL Thinkjets to go with a couple 110s and people who used the 110s mostly didn't bother with the Thinkjets -- they were either using the 110 to dial up the 3000 from home and didn't need a printout, or they were doing some work at home that they would bring back the next day and could print on an HP150. -Frank McConnell From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jan 26 18:35:09 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >For HPIB you might try to look for the HP ThinkJet, it's available with > Nice little printer....very compact too. It was my first > exposure to inkjet printers. It was available with a number of > different interfaces, including parallel and HPIB. I think it was > also available with a serial interface as well. Wasn't there a > version that was battery powered? I often wish I still had one. The Diconix (later Kodak) uses the same ink cartridges, and IS battery powered, with C cells INSIDE the platen. I have a few (FS) I also have a few thinkjets (FS). I think that they're all parallel port ("Centronics" :-) and some "Quietjet"? ones. I can check what I have on Monday if you are interested. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From allain at panix.com Sat Jan 26 18:59:30 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards References: <9c.19fd84fc.2984880c@aol.com> Message-ID: <009101c1a6cd$e0a809e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >> The other (and more common) way is for the drive roller to run to glue. I >> have heard that silicone rubber tubing of the right diamter will fix > My question was followed by "Have you got a part Number ? No, Go to a model shop and ask for gas line. Then section it up. I just did this a month ago. Haven't tried it on the roller yet though. The original reccomendation came from co-listers. John A. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 26 19:29:32 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <009101c1a6cd$e0a809e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Jan 26, 2 07:59:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 761 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020127/145ae929/attachment.ksh From als at thangorodrim.de Sat Jan 26 19:17:23 2002 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: References: <20020126214512.GA26055@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> Message-ID: <20020127011722.GA30097@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Sat, Jan 26, 2002 at 10:07:15PM +0000, Tony Duell wrote: > > should look for it the at the usual places for old hardware (including=20 > > The problem with the Thinkjet, at least over here, is that the ink > cartridges are impossible to obtain. Nobody lists them, or can get them > (at least not that I've found). Are they even still being made? I found some sources of the ink cartridges on the net, but most were selling them at rather high prices (around $25) - but you might get lucky on Ebay. Just recently I managed to get a set of 8 ink cartridges for $15 on ebay.de - together with the two I managed to get there earlier I now have a reserve of 10 ink cartridges, which should last me quite some time. I even found the manual for the printer there for $1 ;-) Regards, Alex. -- 9./10. M?rz: 4. Chemnitzer Linux-Tag http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/linux/tag/ "I sense much NT in you. NT leads to Blue Screen, Blue Screen leads to downtime, downtime leads to suffering. NT is the path to the Dark Side." -- Ellsworth, one small voice From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 26 19:17:55 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <20020127011722.GA30097@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> from "Alexander Schreiber" at Jan 27, 2 02:17:23 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1464 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020127/0305c1ed/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Sat Jan 26 17:56:45 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: BYAD CP/M disks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > They are yours. What is your address? Paul, I received them - exceedingly well packaged - in yesterday's mail. Thank you very much. As a matter of possible interest, they contain the operating system (CP/M-2.20) and other associated programs for the BYAD PC/XT Z-80 card. Disk format is same as the old 8 x 512 sector PC-CP/M-86. - don From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 26 18:09:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: SOL video monitor In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Jan 26, 2 05:30:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 887 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020127/298b2c74/attachment.ksh From r.stek at snet.net Sat Jan 26 19:12:01 2002 From: r.stek at snet.net (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: SOL video monitor Message-ID: <000001c1a6cf$a66fa420$0201a8c0@bob> I have a ProcTech pricelist dated January 1, 1978. They offer a Panasonic PT-872 TV-Video Monitor for $199. Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Jan 26 18:17:44 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: Re: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) (Bryan Pope) References: <200201262219.RAA28301@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <15443.18216.724024.238358@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 26, Bryan Pope wrote: > > My S/390's *hard disk* weighs *20 times* as much as me. 8-) > > O!.. Ok.. Do not drop them on your foot. > > These aren't the ones that are over a foot wide in a clear plastic? case > with a handle in the centre to carry or lock them in place? That would be *old* mainframe technology. This is *new* mainframe technology. What's that array, Sridhar? 2 or 4TB? -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From allain at panix.com Sat Jan 26 18:44:57 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: Favorite 5.25's References: <200201252218.RAA02418@wordstock.com> <007601c1a603$45c5fb00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <003101c1a6cb$d88a51c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Hi, I'm about to toss some PC stuff and I really don't know one 5.25 FDD from another. What are people's favorite manufacturers and model's? Are there more distinctions than just LD/HD? Revealing my stupidity: Can any/all do RX50 formatting? I realize one thing, that HD writes on LD drives are suboptimal. I used to live near my companies' PC help desk, so there'll be quite a few available. They were "3.5 centric". John A. From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Jan 26 18:55:14 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: Favorite 5.25's In-Reply-To: Favorite 5.25's (John Allain) References: <200201252218.RAA02418@wordstock.com> <007601c1a603$45c5fb00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <003101c1a6cb$d88a51c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <15443.20466.15642.190118@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 26, John Allain wrote: > Revealing my stupidity: Can any/all do RX50 > formatting? I realize one thing, that HD writes > on LD drives are suboptimal. Well, RX50s are 80-track drives, so a 360K drive won't do it...other than that, most should, I would think. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jan 26 19:01:51 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: Favorite 5.25's In-Reply-To: <003101c1a6cb$d88a51c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <200201252218.RAA02418@wordstock.com> <007601c1a603$45c5fb00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <003101c1a6cb$d88a51c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: >Hi, I'm about to toss some PC stuff and I really >don't know one 5.25 FDD from another. What are >people's favorite manufacturers and model's? >Are there more distinctions than just LD/HD? My favorite 5.25" mech is the Mitsubishi M4853 or M4853-1. Doubtful you'd have any of them though since they are DSQD drives! Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 26 19:03:39 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: Favorite 5.25's In-Reply-To: <003101c1a6cb$d88a51c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20020127010339.6791.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Allain wrote: > Hi, I'm about to toss some PC stuff and I really > don't know one 5.25 FDD from another. What are > people's favorite manufacturers and model's? Teac FD55GFR - it can be strapped for a PC-AT or to become a DEC RX33. > Are there more distinctions than just LD/HD? Full-height, half-height... 100tpi, 96tpi... those are the biggies. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From allain at panix.com Sat Jan 26 19:05:02 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: Favorite 5.25's References: <200201252218.RAA02418@wordstock.com> <007601c1a603$45c5fb00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <003101c1a6cb$d88a51c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <00c301c1a6ce$a6b8fea0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> OK, ok. ... " that LD writes on HD drives are suboptimal." From apple at cmc.net Sat Jan 26 19:04:13 2002 From: apple at cmc.net (Jack Noble) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: Request for Review ... References: <81BDC19FEA82D311A83900A024F2457F2A7C3C@osiris.e-spirit.de> Message-ID: <005b01c1a6ce$9d0f8b80$3b0fbbd0@oemcomputer> What!!! No OHIO SCIENTIFIC??? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walgenbach, Stefan" To: Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 1:21 PM Subject: Request for Review ... > Hi! > > any help finding out what items are missing from my want list > (and of course from my collection) would be VERY APPRECIATED! > > Want-List: > http://www.homecomputer.de/pages/f_want.html > Have-List: > http://www.homecomputer.de/pages/f_gallery.html > > Please note that this list only covers HOMEcomputer and > not micro/business-computer although the destinction is of > course not that easy to make - at least I have a kind > of "working-definition": > http://www.homecomputer.de/pages/faq.html#items > > Stefan. > www.HomeComputer.de From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 26 19:08:55 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: RS-232 (was Re: IBM 3101 Dip Switches Configuration) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020127010855.71188.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > My standard rule for dealing with an RS232 in-yer-face is to plug > > > it in without a null modem and see if it works...if it doesn't, > > > then plug in a null modem. > > > > I either use a traffic light or my magic cable. I built it when I was > > 16. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > If that's what I think it is (an in-line adapter with LEDs monitoring the > most important signals), then I call it a Xmas Tree Yes. Same thing, different name. > Certainly something _everyone_ who works with serial comms should get. > They're not expensive (about $10 to $20, I guess). Rat Shack has one for around $14, with 7 bicolor LEDs. The nice ones have one red and one green LED for each signal (23 or 24) and can be used to divine strange devices and jumper up a fix. > > ...it has the property of magically unhosing serial connections > > If it manages to 'unhose' the hardware handshakes on an HP82164 > HPIL-RS232 interface I'll be seriously impressed!... > A cable to link 2 82164s has to sawp RTS with DSR and DTR with CTS. Wahoo! That _is_ odd. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 26 19:25:42 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:12 2005 Subject: RS-232 (was Re: IBM 3101 Dip Switches Configuration) In-Reply-To: <20020127010855.71188.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jan 26, 2 05:08:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2623 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020127/2e4b1dec/attachment.ksh From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Jan 26 19:20:54 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Is this a IBM RT mouse? Message-ID: Someone mentioned the RT mouse has two round buttons. I have had this mouse in my collection and have been wondering what it was for. Http://members.aol.com/innfogra/IBMMS1.JPG The connector is a 6 pin square. Can anyone ID it? If someone is interested it is available FSOT. Please contact me off list at whoagiii@aol.com. Paxton Astoria, OR I can supply a JPEG if there are any problems with the URL. From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Jan 26 20:06:03 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Is this a IBM RT mouse? In-Reply-To: Innfogra@aol.com's message of "Sat, 26 Jan 2002 20:20:54 EST" References: Message-ID: <200201270206.g0R263F85842@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > Http://members.aol.com/innfogra/IBMMS1.JPG That looks like the RT PC mouse that I remember. I believe (based on my inventory) that the IBM part number is 00F2383. -Frank McConnell From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 26 20:04:50 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: <00b801c1a608$97527fc0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20020127020450.50044.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Allain wrote: > - - - -point > Just compare the cost and features of the > PC/AT clones sold in, say, '87-88 with a similarly equipped microVAX-II. > The PC/AT would typically cost about $800 bucks, while a similarly > equipped uVaxII cost nearly $100K... $100K? An 11/750 in 1982 cost that. In 1986, when they were first out, a uVAX-II was about $30K for a standard system - 9MB of RAM and a 73MB MFM drive. Yes the drives from DEC were expensive. They always were poor at a price/capacity ratio, especially compared to third-parties. That $800 AT may have had a larger disk, but it sure didn't have much RAM. 41256 RAM chips in the tube (not assembled into boards) shot from $3.50 each to $17.50 *each* in 1987 due to the U.S. Dept of Commerce imposing dumping fees on Korean DRAM vendors. I was trying to populate a Spirit Inboard (1.5MB) on my Amiga - 1MB x 9bits (parity) was going for literally $630 per megabyte. Also, the AT was old tech in 1987 and the uVAX-II was a year old. That AT was $5K a couple years earlier when _it_ first came out - with 1Mb of RAM and a 40Mb ST-251 drive. > Inside a year, the power cost alone exceeded the PC/AT... 8A max draw for a BA-23 is 880 watts. At $0.08 / KWH (our rates in Columbus), that's $0.07/hour in electricity, or $1.68/day or $613/year... less than the cost of 1MB of RAM chips. > yet folks LOVED > the microVax and hated the PC/AT clone, that ran half-again as fast. How many terminals could you put on that stock PC/AT clone? The regular complement on a uVAX-II was 5 - console plus 4 DZV11 ports. How many people could use the PC/AT clone at the same time? 1? Don't forget that a *big* chunk of the price from DEC was the software license. If you needed VMS, you *needed* VMS. The uVAX was near the *bottom* end of a line of expensive machines and could nearly match integer (not I/O) performance of an 11/780 that cost 10 times as much ($300K new in 1978 vs $30K new in 1986). That's another point - how fast could you pump bytes through a PC? The ISA bus was 8MHz - and that doesn't mean 8 million 16-bit words per second. The Qbus in a uVAX can pump over 1MB/sec, but I don't have the numbers here in front of me. Apples and oranges. Comparing a PC-AT and a uVAX-II - Yes... the PC clone can add numbers faster, but there's lots of things it couldn't do, things people with MicroVAXen *wanted* to do (1 machine for e-mail for the entire department, as a personal example). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 26 20:33:32 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Non-profit reselling In-Reply-To: <3C534952.F7D690B8@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote: > Tothwolf wrote: > > On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote: > > > On Fri, 25 Jan 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > > > > The VCF *is* a business, genius. > > > > > > You've previously carefully avoided disclosing that fact. It's a > > > business that will never see one slim dime from us. We would never > > > recommend you to anyone. It's not because of what you charge. You may > > > be worth every bit of that. You might even be worth ten times that. > > > It's because in your attempts to get ahead, you do it by trying to > > > bring others down. I bet if someone got a quote from you on a part, > > > even at the same time you were telling everyone on the list that it > > > wasn't worth shit, you'd be quoting it at a rate that would make you a > > > real living. You want to take your money in, but we can tell you won't > > > pay anyone else shit. You're a one way fuck, and you know it. That's > > > why we will never do business with you. > > > > Who is this "we" you are speaking of? I certainly don't align myself with > > *you*, Ian. > > > > Since I joined this last last year, many of the posts I've seen from you > > have been nothing more than personal attacks on others and other assorted > > ranting and raving. You seem to feel the need to show off and show that > > you are better than everyone else. I personally find your latest postings > > offensive and imagine a good many others here on classiccmp do as well. If > > you feel the need to use that kind of language, take it elsewhere! > > > > And by the way, Ian, if you feel the need to reply to this email, do *not* > > CC: it to me. > > That we didn't include you. My comments aren't for everyone, however, > most of the time, there has been at least some that found something > beneficial in them, but you are welcome to skip over them as you > please. Why did you CC: me anyway? Anyhow, Plonk. -Toth From mhstein at canada.com Fri Jan 25 19:40:09 2002 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: RS M100 wanted Message-ID: <01C1A5E0.7C954820@mse-d03> I have a friend in AZ who is a sometime writer and would love to have an AlphaSmart: http://www.streettech.com/archives_hardware/alphaSmartPro.html Alas, her current finances aren't up to it, and it occurred to me that, especially after the recent bunch of free M100/102s, someone on this list might have a spare one they'd like to contribute and make an old woman happy in the meantime (good thing she doesn't read this list or she'd kill me). Anybody? And maybe a null modem cable to let her transfer .do files to a PC? mike From allain at panix.com Sat Jan 26 20:32:56 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Favorite 5.25's References: <200201252218.RAA02418@wordstock.com><007601c1a603$45c5fb00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06><003101c1a6cb$d88a51c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <15443.20466.15642.190118@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <000d01c1a6db$0dcbe740$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Well, here's the list. I'll probably keep around 5... Canon MD 5501 Mitsubishi MF504C-318U Mitsumi D509V (qty2) Mitsumi D509V3 (qty4) NEC FD1157C Olivetti XM 4311/3 28/85 Panasonic JU-455-7AAB LR55468 Tandon TM65 Teac FD-55 GFR (qty5) Toshiba ND-0801GR One Mitsumi D509V is clearly marked 1.2M other than that I'm clueless joe jackson on the densities. Also, all? have quite a few jumpers, typically starting with a D0..3 selector. John A. From mythtech at Mac.com Sat Jan 26 20:40:11 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Is this a IBM RT mouse? Message-ID: <200201270240.g0R2eCN26025@ns2.ezwind.net> >Http://members.aol.com/innfogra/IBMMS1.JPG > >The connector is a 6 pin square. Can anyone ID it? PCjr? Although, I am sure that is not the only IBM machine to carry square ports. -chris From allain at panix.com Sat Jan 26 20:39:52 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards References: Message-ID: <002101c1a6db$e6759a00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> +AD4- considerably larger. I would guess (from memory) +AD4- it's about 3/8+ACI- O/D. I doubt that many model engines +AD4- have fuel lines that size. Yup, 6mmOD / 2mmID so I'm only set for the calcs :( John A. From mythtech at Mac.com Sat Jan 26 20:44:17 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards Message-ID: <200201270244.g0R2iHN26064@ns2.ezwind.net> >Somebody (or more likely a group of people) need to compile a catalogue >of spare parts. Saying that the idler from a JVC.... video recorder has >the following dimensions (diameter, thickness, tyre width, etc). And that >the motor from a Panasonic CD player is 6V, with the following >dimensions. And so on. So that you can attempt to find parts that will >fit machines that nobody seels spares for any more... I have a "belt checker" from MCM electronics. You place the belt around one pin, then slid the other pin until the belt is sitting between them with no tension. It tells you the size of the belt. Then there is a ruler to measure the width, and a picture chart that shows style (square, round, whatever). When you have all the info, there is a chart on the back with MCM part numbers for the matching belt.... only down side... more often then not, they no longer carry the part listed on their checker... and they don't seem to have a list of compatible parts they DO carry... fortunalty, their master catalog has a list of belts and tires by size. -chris From passerm at umkc.edu Sat Jan 26 20:43:54 2002 From: passerm at umkc.edu (Michael Passer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Interact Model One cassette beg Message-ID: <006201c1a6dc$76a62360$0800a8c0@zeus> I was wondering if any of my fine fellow listers might have cassette software (especially BASIC, but would love to have anything) for the Interact Model One. Having acquired one of these, I'm interested in making it do something besides say "PRESS 'L' TO LOAD TAPE." If anyone has cassettes they'd be willing to dub for me, I would be thrilled to repay you in gratitude, some piece of 80's micro hardware or software _you_ might be looking for, or, of course, plain old cash for your time and tape. --Michael Passer From sieler at allegro.com Sat Jan 26 20:44:23 2002 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: HP87XM In-Reply-To: <005501c1a566$9d60d260$7d2dcd18@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3C52F907.17911.4AC4FB6@localhost> Re: > You need to use drives following the AMIGO protocol. Here are the possibilities: IIRC, if you get the "Extended Mass Storage ROM", you can then talk to CS-80 disk drives. Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From marvin at rain.org Sat Jan 26 20:56:05 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Favorite 5.25's References: <200201252218.RAA02418@wordstock.com><007601c1a603$45c5fb00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06><003101c1a6cb$d88a51c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <15443.20466.15642.190118@phaduka.neurotica.com> <000d01c1a6db$0dcbe740$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3C536C45.1177A2A8@rain.org> John Allain wrote: > > Well, here's the list. > I'll probably keep around 5... > > Canon MD 5501 ******************** 1.2 MB 96 TPI > Mitsubishi MF504C-318U *********** ? > Mitsumi D509V (qty2) *********** 1.2 MB 96 TPI > Mitsumi D509V3 (qty4) > NEC FD1157C ********************** 1.2 MB 96 TPI > Olivetti XM 4311/3 28/85 ********* 1.2 MB 96 TPI > Panasonic JU-455-7AAB LR55468 *** 360 KB 48 TPI > Tandon TM65 ********************** 360 KB 48 TPI 65-2 1.2 MB 96 TPI 65-8L > Teac FD-55 GFR (qty5) ********** 1.2 MB 96 TPI > Toshiba ND-0801GR **************** ? The above info after the *** is from a list of drive numbers on a printed spreadsheet I was given some years ago. From vance at ikickass.org Sat Jan 26 20:58:36 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <200201261247.g0QClan01349@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Jan 2002 jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > > My S/390's *hard disk* weighs *20 times* as much as me. 8-) > Hard disk? A single hard disk a la DEC RK07? Or a hard disk array? It's an array. But my Burroughs has one big disk that weighs even more. Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Sat Jan 26 21:26:50 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <200201262219.RAA28301@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Bryan Pope wrote: > > > Hmmmm, my VAX-11/730 weights MUCH more then me. > > > > My S/390's *hard disk* weighs *20 times* as much as me. 8-) > > > > O!.. Ok.. Do not drop them on your foot. > > These aren't the ones that are over a foot wide in a clear plastic? case > with a handle in the centre to carry or lock them in place? No, this is about five feet tall, beige, rectangular. Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Sat Jan 26 21:33:32 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <15443.18216.724024.238358@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > > These aren't the ones that are over a foot wide in a clear plastic? case > > with a handle in the centre to carry or lock them in place? > > That would be *old* mainframe technology. This is *new* mainframe > technology. What's that array, Sridhar? 2 or 4TB? I believe I have some old mainframe drives as well. This array is 2TB. Peace... Sridhar From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Jan 26 23:45:58 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <002701c1a6bb$d480f1c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3C533FB6.22008.9001F18@localhost> I still have ICOMM on floppy. I believe that a freenet in Nova Scotia still uses it, also possibly the Carlton freenet in Ottawa. Haven't checked them out in a couple of years so I can't swear by it. To me, compared to Lynx, it was a Cadillac. Lawrence > What the ICOMM software did was to provide a means for providing local > graphical presentation for data acquired from the host, not running PPP, but > running the shell. You told ICOMM what you wanted and it figured out what to > tell your shell interface to do, then it took the data that was returned to you > and presented it graphically. There weren't many fancy graphic sites back then, > so it wasn't really much better than LYNX, but it did format the stuff so you > thought that you had a graphical interface, though it wasn't a real GUI. > > It showed the user what could be done, though there wasn't much other than > text to surf on the web, back then, and the WWW had not been "commercialized" > yet, since the gov hadn't yet given its OK for commercial web use. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tothwolf" > To: > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 12:54 PM > Subject: Re: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) > > > > On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > On Sat, 25 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > > > > > The ICOMM software went a long way if you had only shell access, > > > though. I provided the appearance of a graphical browser, though it > > > did that by using shell-accessible features at the ISP, though it ran > > > the graphical stuff locally, thereby giving the appearance of a > > > graphical browser. It didn't need a WINSOCK, since it ran the IP > > > stack at the ISP end. > > > > I never used the ICOMM software you describe. The first TCP/IP I had > > access to at home was slip. I used a unix program called slirp with > > trumpet for quite awhile before I moved to a standard slip/ppp connection. > > > > -Toth > > > > > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Jan 26 23:45:58 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: References: <3C533517.640A1D@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3C533FB6.28229.9001F77@localhost> I similarly have an great affection for the Atari ST. The OS was all in ram and despite all the criticisms of TOS and the underlying GEM , it was a pretty remarkable system for it's time. Just too bad it had the 4meg limitation and that the Tramiels were in charge. Lawrence > >never used a file sytem but just wrote directly to the disk. Now days > >1 Meg will not even boot a OS.:( > > That's one of the reasons I always liked the Amiga's OS. > Granted, it didn't have all the latest bells and whistles that the > Windows and Mac have, or some of the stuff that more mature OS's had, > such as VMS and Unix, but for it's footprint size it was quite full > featured, especially considering the GUI and the way it intereacted > with the underlying kernel. The Amiga OS on a fast 68060 CPU is > still quite a capable 'Net machine with much less RAM and a fraction > of the clockspeed of current machines. > > Jeff > -- > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.cchaven.com > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jan 26 21:10:17 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Is this a IBM RT mouse? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Jan 2002 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > Someone mentioned the RT mouse has two round buttons. I have had this mouse > in my collection and have been wondering what it was for. > > Http://members.aol.com/innfogra/IBMMS1.JPG > > The connector is a 6 pin square. Can anyone ID it? Based on the fact that the keyboard cutout of the RT's back panel is shaped like the (huge) insulator on the interface, and the mouse in the picture has a (huge) insulator [my terminology fails me here; sorry] that matches the mouse port's cutout, I vote it's an RT mouse. What DO ya call that huge chunk o' rubber right behind the male end, anyway? Doc From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Jan 26 21:41:59 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Is this a IBM RT mouse? In-Reply-To: Re: Is this a IBM RT mouse? (Doc) References: Message-ID: <15443.30471.54536.961922@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 26, Doc wrote: > Based on the fact that the keyboard cutout of the RT's back panel is > shaped like the (huge) insulator on the interface, and the mouse in the > picture has a (huge) insulator [my terminology fails me here; sorry] > that matches the mouse port's cutout, I vote it's an RT mouse. > > What DO ya call that huge chunk o' rubber right behind the male end, > anyway? The foreskin? -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jan 26 22:24:17 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Is this a IBM RT mouse? In-Reply-To: <15443.30471.54536.961922@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > The foreskin? > > -Dave DUDE! you made me scare my cat! Rolling around laughing, with VERY irate kitty glaring at me.... Doc From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Jan 26 23:28:40 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Is this a IBM RT mouse? In-Reply-To: Re: Is this a IBM RT mouse? (Doc) References: <15443.30471.54536.961922@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15443.36872.884143.772996@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 26, Doc wrote: > > The foreskin? > > DUDE! you made me scare my cat! > > Rolling around laughing, with VERY irate kitty glaring at me.... Sorry, couldn't resist. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat Jan 26 21:54:03 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Is this a IBM RT mouse? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Wouldn't it be easier to try a Google search, or a search on the IBM website for whatever model number should be on the bottom of the mousey? --John > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Doc > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 22:10 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Is this a IBM RT mouse? > > > On Sat, 26 Jan 2002 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > > > Someone mentioned the RT mouse has two round buttons. I have > had this mouse > > in my collection and have been wondering what it was for. > > > > Http://members.aol.com/innfogra/IBMMS1.JPG > > > > The connector is a 6 pin square. Can anyone ID it? > > Based on the fact that the keyboard cutout of the RT's back panel is > shaped like the (huge) insulator on the interface, and the mouse in the > picture has a (huge) insulator [my terminology fails me here; sorry] > that matches the mouse port's cutout, I vote it's an RT mouse. > > What DO ya call that huge chunk o' rubber right behind the male end, > anyway? > > Doc > > > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jan 27 06:11:22 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Is this a IBM RT mouse? In-Reply-To: Doc "Re: Is this a IBM RT mouse?" (Jan 26, 21:10) References: Message-ID: <10201271211.ZM18011@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 26, 21:10, Doc wrote: > What DO ya call that huge chunk o' rubber right behind the male end, > anyway? EMI filter. An interference suppressor consisting of a ferrite tube clamped onto the cable to reduce RF radiation. But I liked Dave's answer too. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dan at ekoan.com Sat Jan 26 22:24:17 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Any interest in "Uptime: The Disk Monthly" diskettes? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020126232303.03e773d0@enigma> Hello, While looking for 3.5" 720K discs to format on a HP-150 that I bought (yes, I sometimes actually pay money for classic computers, especially if they're Hewlett-Packard) from Bill Sudbrink, I came across a set of diskettes labelled Uptime: The Disk Monthly Volume 2 Number 1, for instance, is copyright 1986 by Viking Technologies out of Newport, Rhode Island, and has the following table of contents: Loan Calculator, Seasoned Clip Art, Stepping Out Demo, TermWorks, 3D TicTacToe, Hacker Interview, Biorhythm, Gone Fishin' DA, Little Black Book DA and Preview. I've got at least five diskettes with pre-printed labels, another half dozen with typewritten labels (e.g. "Uptime 2.8") and one labeled "The Best of Uptime, Brought to you by Macworld". Is there any interest or reason to save these, or can I go ahead and reformat them without fear of losing something someone on this list might want? Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com From mythtech at Mac.com Sat Jan 26 23:24:22 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Any interest in "Uptime: The Disk Monthly" diskettes? Message-ID: <200201270524.g0R5ONN26907@ns2.ezwind.net> >Is there any interest or reason to save these, or can I go ahead and reformat >them without fear of losing something someone on this list might want? If any of them contain the game "Iggy Igopolis", I would like a copy of the game (it was shareware, so you can safely just email me the game, I don't need the whole disk). My floppy with it has gone bad (it robbed a 7-11)... and I have not yet been successful in finding a new copy (but I did track down Captain Magneto which made me very happy) -chris From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 26 22:39:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: RS-232 (was Re: IBM 3101 Dip Switches Configuration) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020127043901.91176.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > > I either use a traffic light or my magic cable. > > Rat Shack has one for around $14, with 7 bicolor LEDs. The nice ones > > That's the one I have. I got it about 15 years ago. Opened it up and saw > some _terrible_ soldering. Resoldered everything before I even tried to > use it. But it's never given me any problems since then... Mine, too... I had a cold solder joint in mine that I noticed because the LED wiggled a *lot*. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 26 22:42:10 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Request for Review ... In-Reply-To: <005b01c1a6ce$9d0f8b80$3b0fbbd0@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <20020127044210.39681.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jack Noble wrote: > What!!! No OHIO SCIENTIFIC??? I wouldn't mind finding some of that - and _I'm_ in Ohio! I used a C3 owned by a family friend around 1978, give or take a year. At one point, I had a C4P mainboard, but I gave it to Hans Franke when I visited him a couple of years ago. The C3 was kinda cool - my experience up to that point was PETs and TRS-80s, etc. It was wild to see a box with multiple CPUs that you selected depending on what you were going to do. One was a 6502, and I expect one of the others was either an 8080 or Z80, but I never did get to see under the hood. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 26 22:50:48 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Battery powered printers (was Re: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020127045048.49096.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > The Diconix (later Kodak) uses the same ink cartridges, and IS battery > powered, with C cells INSIDE the platen. We had those on the Ice to send out to the field with scientists. I seem to recall lots of clog problems, but our environment was so dry that even HP LaserPrinters had problems (paper dust/toner accumulation was horrendous below 10% RH) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 26 22:50:49 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Battery powered printers (was Re: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020127045049.50454.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > The Diconix (later Kodak) uses the same ink cartridges, and IS battery > powered, with C cells INSIDE the platen. We had those on the Ice to send out to the field with scientists. I seem to recall lots of clog problems, but our environment was so dry that even HP LaserPrinters had problems (paper dust/toner accumulation was horrendous below 10% RH) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jan 26 23:25:24 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: <20020127020450.50044.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002501c1a6f3$2269b020$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I don't know where you were buying DRAMs for that kind of money. I was working a baseband processor design in '87 (VERY cost-sensitif due to volume) and was constantly seeing prices of about $1 for 41256's at the time. I heard rumors of price surges, but they didn't show up in distributor prices, and certainly not in direct pricing from the vendors. If you didn't mind the teensy hard disk, you might get by at $30K, but if you wanted it equipped with a video display capable of 1024x768, 24 MB of RAM, a pair of 750 MB hard disks, you were looking at a MUCH bigger price tag, and particularly if you wanted to use a DEC monitor. Then there was the networking hardware. If you wanted to be compatible with non-DEC stuff, you had to "dig deeeep" as the preacher used to say ... more below ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 7:04 PM Subject: Re: Bell & Howell Apple II update > > --- John Allain wrote: > > - - - -point > > Just compare the cost and features of the > > PC/AT clones sold in, say, '87-88 with a similarly equipped microVAX-II. > > The PC/AT would typically cost about $800 bucks, while a similarly > > equipped uVaxII cost nearly $100K... > > $100K? An 11/750 in 1982 cost that. In 1986, when they were first > out, a uVAX-II was about $30K for a standard system - 9MB of RAM and > a 73MB MFM drive. Yes the drives from DEC were expensive. They always > were poor at a price/capacity ratio, especially compared to third-parties. > > That $800 AT may have had a larger disk, but it sure didn't have much > RAM. 41256 RAM chips in the tube (not assembled into boards) shot from > $3.50 each to $17.50 *each* in 1987 due to the U.S. Dept of Commerce > imposing dumping fees on Korean DRAM vendors. I was trying to populate > a Spirit Inboard (1.5MB) on my Amiga - 1MB x 9bits (parity) was going > for literally $630 per megabyte. > > Also, the AT was old tech in 1987 and the uVAX-II was a year old. That > AT was $5K a couple years earlier when _it_ first came out - with 1Mb of > RAM and a 40Mb ST-251 drive. > > > Inside a year, the power cost alone exceeded the PC/AT... > > 8A max draw for a BA-23 is 880 watts. At $0.08 / KWH (our rates in > Columbus), that's $0.07/hour in electricity, or $1.68/day or $613/year... > less than the cost of 1MB of RAM chips. > > > yet folks LOVED > > the microVax and hated the PC/AT clone, that ran half-again as fast. > > How many terminals could you put on that stock PC/AT clone? The regular > complement on a uVAX-II was 5 - console plus 4 DZV11 ports. How many > people could use the PC/AT clone at the same time? 1? Don't forget > that a *big* chunk of the price from DEC was the software license. If > you needed VMS, you *needed* VMS. The uVAX was near the *bottom* end of a > line of expensive machines and could nearly match integer (not I/O) > performance of an 11/780 that cost 10 times as much ($300K new in 1978 vs > $30K new in 1986). > Terminals? Who wanted to use terminals? Nevertheless, with an add-on board costing a fraction of what a DEC terminal cost, you could add a 16-port board to a PC/AT along with the software. Now, I don't know what you'd do with such a thing. > > That's another point - how fast could you pump bytes through a PC? The > ISA bus was 8MHz - and that doesn't mean 8 million 16-bit words per second. > The Qbus in a uVAX can pump over 1MB/sec, but I don't have the numbers > here in front of me. > It can, in theory, but, having had to do performance testing, I'd say that on a good day, with a tailwind, it will do 200 KBps. The ISA bus was operated from an 8MHz bus clock, but it used two clock ticks per bus cycle, and typically one for an idle cycle if it had to go back to the bus for anyting. It didn't typically use the bus for memory, however, unless you had a big RAM board plugged in, though with linear addressing that was limited to 16 MB and couldn't practically use all that either. Normally one split a big RAM board, like my 24MB board between "extended" and "expanded" (banked) memory. In any case, the ISA couldn't really transfer much more than about 200 KBps, either, when doing useful work. > > Apples and oranges. Comparing a PC-AT and a uVAX-II - Yes... the PC clone > can add numbers faster, but there's lots of things it couldn't do, things > people with MicroVAXen *wanted* to do (1 machine for e-mail for the entire > department, as a personal example). > Fact is, the PC/AT can compute faster. The uVax-II had a more flexible and more secure OS, though. However, it's silly to compare a computer costing many tens of thousands of dollars with one costing a few hundred when the cheaper one has more MIPS, more STORAGE, and, in fact, costs less per user just on the basis of the cost of a terminal, which nobody wanted anymore by then. Fact is that DEC's gone now because they took the wrong approach to marketing their hardware. They made the stuff slower, larger, and VASTLY more costly because it gave them some quick profit. That didn't provide them a future, though. Others have yet to learn that same lesson. It's that notion of using a single machine for email for the entire department that killed DEC, and other dinosaurs like it. I'm glad they're gone because they made their money by making computing expensive and the domain of the very rich, while they could have made a lot more money by making their computers cheaper, more avaialble, and more compatible with the rest of the world. Hindsight's always 20/20, though. > From allain at panix.com Sat Jan 26 23:53:34 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: <20020127020450.50044.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006c01c1a6f6$f5421980$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Apples and oranges. Comparing a PC-AT and a uVAX-II Has there ever been a case where he hasn't taken the last word? I think if I had enough wind to outblow Richard I'd be set for a long and successful career in politics. Thank-You no. John A. From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jan 27 00:28:14 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: <20020127020450.50044.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> <006c01c1a6f6$f5421980$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <002a01c1a6fb$ccbfab80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> No matter how hard you try to wriggle, John, your original assertion that the BNC was common in microcomputer video was off base, and you simply had to insist that wasn't the case. I simply looked at the old catalogs and mag's and could clearly see that monitors of the day, as used on microcomputers (it was the Apple-][ that was under discussion) used PL/SO-259's since those were what was on the common and inexpensive NTSC hardware used in CCTV and security applications already in wide distribution back in the '70's, and unlike the workstation hardware and high-end video production studio hardware that was brought up at that point, which nobody would have tried to justify for use with late-'70's microcomputer hardware, the price was the determining factor. Sure, BNC's were probably better, but those aren't what was already built in to the hardware of the time. Those are easily verifiable historical facts. A single look at a catalog of the time would settle that, but ... It's not so much about the "last word," by the way, but somebody's got to keep you hip-shooters honest. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 10:53 PM Subject: Re: Bell & Howell Apple II update > > Apples and oranges. Comparing a PC-AT and a uVAX-II > > Has there ever been a case where he hasn't taken the last word? > I think if I had enough wind to outblow Richard I'd be set for a > long and successful career in politics. Thank-You no. > > John A. > > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jan 26 23:36:58 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: For:Pro's Only.... Message-ID: If you got that, I'm probably talking to you.... Is anybody interested in buying/trading for - Hardware: 1 Fortune Systems video console 1 Fortune Systems ASCII terminal 1 Fortune Systems keyboard 2 Fortune Systems floppy drives?? Full-height 5.25" with very strange latch 1 2 lb. bag of misc. cables 1 256k 32:16 RAM expansion, tagged defective Documentation: 1 For:Pro for 32:16 Installation Instructions 1 Introductuion to For:Pro 1 Fortune Systems Tape Streamer User's Guide {1} 1 Using Fortune Terminals 1 Fortune Interactive Terminal Emulator 1 Fortune:Word Operators' Guide 1 Fortune:Word Reference Guide 1 Fortune:Multiplan Professional Tools 5.25" Floppy Disks: 1-of-1 Fortune Diagnostic Disk {2} Process & Instrumentation Design Support Diskette v4.0 3-of-? For:Pro Cold-Boot {2} 3-of-3 Single-User For:Pro Release Level 1.7/J3 1-of-1 Multiuser For:Pro (Domestic) System Tools Series 1-of-1 Meet Your Fortune System Training and Education Series 1-of-1 Language Development Tools System Tools Series 1-of-1 C System Tools Series 1-of-1 For:Pro 1.7 Upgrade System Tools Series 1-of-1 Fortune Word - Promotional Software Not For Resale Release level 1.0/E3 1-of-1 Fortune Word - Promotional Software Not For Resale Release level 1.1/E3 1-of-1 Multiplan - Promotional Software Not For Resale 1-of-1 Multiplan Master - Promotional Software Not For Resale 1-of-1 Business Basic - Promotional Software Not For Resale 2-of-2 General Ledger - Promotional Software Not For Resale 1-of-1 C - GKS Beta Test Release level 1.0d/? 1-of-1 Tektronix (R) 401X Emulator 15-or-20 Unlabelled or illegibly labelled floppies. Apparently related to the Fortune stuff. {1} Software Documentation in box which should, but doesn't, contain 5.25" disks {2} P&ID floppy with printed or typed label. Label is identical to the Fortune Systems floppies except for the logo. {3} These are BASF floppies with handwritten labels Unless otherwise noted, all floppies appear to be the "official" distribution, with the Fortune Systems logo on the label. Floppies are NOT in great shape, mostly distorted and warped from heat or moisture. I'm guessing they're probably readable, about *once*. I'm selling/trading ALL this as-is. I don't have a 32:16 system unit (everything but...), so it's all untested. ***** Just so there are no misconceptions or misrepresentations, I am NOT a charitable organization. I spend a crapload of time and money on this hobby, and anytime I can make it turn a profit, I will leap for joy. ***** Doc From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sat Jan 26 23:44:57 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: WTF? (was Re: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook") Message-ID: <20020127054724.VQUY12031.imf20bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Ian Koller > I looked at it, then checked your "me" page, then gave up. > > If you want auctions that automatically extend, you have > that option as a seller on Yahoo. Ian, thanks for pointing this out. For the group, here's a snippet from Pat's Ebay "me" page: [begin snippet] I reserve the right not to honor any bid made during the last 2 minutes of one of my auctions. Also, I maintain a list of everyone who has ever "bid sniped" me on any auction that I was a bidder on, and I reserve the right to not honor any bids on my auction items from any bidder on that list. [snippet ends] I don't have a lot of Ebay experience, but I was under the impression that it was a fairly level playing field, albeit one where "anything goes." If someone comes up against me with a faster machine and a faster connection, then I may be sniped. Oh well. This guy carries grudges and does not appear to be a trustworthy person to deal with. I'll look more closely at "me" pages in the future. Sheesh! Glen 0/0 > Pat Barron wrote: > > > > I happened across one of these recently, and have no real interest in > > Microdata. So, I've listed the thing on eBay, check it out if > > interested... > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1326034396 > > > > --Pat. From rhblakeman at kih.net Sun Jan 27 00:52:38 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: WTF? (was Re: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook") In-Reply-To: <20020127054724.VQUY12031.imf20bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: HE may have the right to do this but all buyers have the right to "snipe" according to reality as well as ebay's rules and standards. if there is 1 second left and you pop in a winning bid then others have to deal with it and the buyer *should* be mature enough to enjoy the money earned by the final bid. What business is it of the seller that the final bid was posted in the lst 2 minutes anyway? I never post a bid before the last 30 seconds. I need to make sure that I don't ever partonize this person's auctions. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Glen Goodwin Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 11:45 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: WTF? (was Re: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook") > From: Ian Koller > I looked at it, then checked your "me" page, then gave up. > > If you want auctions that automatically extend, you have > that option as a seller on Yahoo. Ian, thanks for pointing this out. For the group, here's a snippet from Pat's Ebay "me" page: [begin snippet] I reserve the right not to honor any bid made during the last 2 minutes of one of my auctions. Also, I maintain a list of everyone who has ever "bid sniped" me on any auction that I was a bidder on, and I reserve the right to not honor any bids on my auction items from any bidder on that list. [snippet ends] I don't have a lot of Ebay experience, but I was under the impression that it was a fairly level playing field, albeit one where "anything goes." If someone comes up against me with a faster machine and a faster connection, then I may be sniped. Oh well. This guy carries grudges and does not appear to be a trustworthy person to deal with. I'll look more closely at "me" pages in the future. Sheesh! Glen 0/0 > Pat Barron wrote: > > > > I happened across one of these recently, and have no real interest in > > Microdata. So, I've listed the thing on eBay, check it out if > > interested... > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1326034396 > > > > --Pat. From passerm at umkc.edu Sun Jan 27 00:57:46 2002 From: passerm at umkc.edu (Michael Passer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: WTF? (was Re: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook") References: <20020127054724.VQUY12031.imf20bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <001e01c1a6ff$ed29dea0$0800a8c0@zeus> If those terms were on an auction I were interested in, I'd report it to Safe Harbor. I imagine eBay frowns on people adding their own arbitrary auction rules. And since these terms aren't displayed on the (or even mentioned--there's no requirement that a potential bidder follow the "me" link in case there are onerous terms there to examine) auction page, if I bid and won in the last two minutes, I would file a non- performing seller report and leave a politely worded but clear negative feedback. Fortunately, Microdata isn't one of my interests. From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Jan 27 08:40:02 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: WTF? (was Re: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook") In-Reply-To: <20020127054724.VQUY12031.imf20bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020127083921.02223208@pc> At 12:44 AM 1/27/2002 -0500, Glen Goodwin wrote: >[begin snippet] >I reserve the right not to honor any bid made during the last 2 minutes of >one of my auctions. Also, I >maintain a list of everyone who has ever "bid sniped" me on any auction >that I was a bidder on, and I >reserve the right to not honor any bids on my auction items from any bidder >on that list. >[snippet ends] Does eBay allow this? - John From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jan 27 00:07:08 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Opus5 400PM/8000 Message-ID: I have 2 150MB DC6150 tape cartridges from Opus Systems Label 1: _________ Opus5 400PM/8000 5.3.2 Rev Q4 P/N 900-00269-001 # sysadm installpkg or load during the initial installation All SW Packages #1 of 1 --------- Label 2: ________ X Version 11 400PM/8000 Rev A2 P/N 900-00223-002 # sysadm installpkg All X11 Packages #1 of 1 -------- What the heck is it? Doc From dan at ekoan.com Sun Jan 27 00:46:00 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Opus5 400PM/8000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020127014410.03e68d10@enigma> At 12:07 AM 1/27/02 -0600, you wrote: > I have 2 150MB DC6150 tape cartridges from Opus Systems > >Label 1: >_________ > Opus5 400PM/8000 5.3.2 Rev Q4 > P/N 900-00269-001 Hi Doc, I don't know about the 400PM, but I've got a 300PM board but nothing else -- no documentation or software. Here are some pictures: http://www.decodesystems.com/help-wanted/index.html#opus I'd love to have a copy of what's on those tapes! Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jan 27 01:17:38 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Opus5 400PM/8000 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020127014410.03e68d10@enigma> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Jan 2002, Dan Veeneman wrote: > I don't know about the 400PM, but I've got a 300PM board but > nothing else -- no documentation or software. After doing a little more googling, it appears to be the OS for an Opus Systems "Personal Mainframe". Opus Systems is still extant, but not terribly informative. http://www.opus.com > I'd love to have a copy of what's on those tapes! If/when I get a streamer up, I'll see about dumping a copy.... Also, I'll see if the guy I got them from can shed more light. Doc From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jan 27 00:23:45 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Craftsman (was: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" References: Message-ID: <3C539CF1.697E3C70@internet1.net> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > Over the years, the quality slid, and Sears had to rely on a lifetime > guarantee to sell the tools. By the late 70s, the broaching wasn't even > centered on their sockets and box-ends. If you hold a 50s Craftsman tool > next to a 70s Craftsman tool, there is a VISIBLE difference...... I can see a bit of difference between the 70's tools and there tools of today. I don't think I have ever seen the tools from the 50's. I thought the stuff from the 70's was pretty good. I just choose carefully. I have some Kobalt stuff from Lowes that I like. The Kobalt stuff is made my Williams, now a Snap-On company. > It was quite a shock a few years ago, when I started seeing Craftsman > tools for sale at OSH (Orchard Supply Hardware), Home Depot, and even on > infomercials on TV! Home Depot? They sell Husky.... There own store brand I guess, don't know who makes them. I've never seen Craftman sold anywhere but Sears and at flee markets (used). Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From rhblakeman at kih.net Sun Jan 27 00:52:40 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Craftsman (was: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" In-Reply-To: <3C539CF1.697E3C70@internet1.net> Message-ID: Since Sears has to honor the old warranty and they bring people into ususlly dead sotres with the tool warranty, they've gone to really crappy handtools instead. I have never had the tip of a phillips 2 or 3 snap clean off in a screw until I got one of the new dull/satin finish screwdrivers. I also don;t like that the flats no longer have a square shaft - this is how I've had the leverage to get stubborn screws out before and coan't with the new ones (you could put a smaller adjustable on the square shaft to assist in turning the screw). Now even a vise grip won't hang on with the new coating - it slips around. I take old Craftsman tools back for replacment but I no longer buy any Sears merchandise - too high and the quality just isn;t there anymore. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chad Fernandez Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 12:24 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Craftsman (was: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook" "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > Over the years, the quality slid, and Sears had to rely on a lifetime > guarantee to sell the tools. By the late 70s, the broaching wasn't even > centered on their sockets and box-ends. If you hold a 50s Craftsman tool > next to a 70s Craftsman tool, there is a VISIBLE difference...... I can see a bit of difference between the 70's tools and there tools of today. I don't think I have ever seen the tools from the 50's. I thought the stuff from the 70's was pretty good. I just choose carefully. I have some Kobalt stuff from Lowes that I like. The Kobalt stuff is made my Williams, now a Snap-On company. > It was quite a shock a few years ago, when I started seeing Craftsman > tools for sale at OSH (Orchard Supply Hardware), Home Depot, and even on > infomercials on TV! Home Depot? They sell Husky.... There own store brand I guess, don't know who makes them. I've never seen Craftman sold anywhere but Sears and at flee markets (used). Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From jss at subatomix.com Sun Jan 27 00:44:20 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Battlebot vs. PET Message-ID: <20020127004017.J15773-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> I'm watching Battlebots at the moment, and I just saw a demonstration of a blade-spinning bot. The demo involved shredding a Commodore PET to bits. I'm not much of a Commodore enthusiast, but I was quite taken aback. Note to self: not everyone in the world thinks like us. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From rhblakeman at kih.net Sun Jan 27 01:01:29 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 server In-Reply-To: <20020122145807.91061.qmail@web14501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Colin, reply to me off-list at rhblakeman@kih.net - I got the unit today and also bought a second processor board to replace the terminator board, and am looking for wheels. Many times places that rackmount or stack servers have the wheel sets and aprons stashed and are willing to trade or sell them. Everything on it is perfect, just no wheels and no apron, which I assumed by he pics. Also to anyone on thelist that is curious of the seller compsuccess@hotmail.com and their viability - I went up and picked the unit up in Columbus OH today and I got more than the auction stated and a beautiful server to boot. They even helped me load it. I am very impressed and happy with the seller and the machine. Now to get this thing running quad Pro 200's and get an OS on it. I might try 2000 Server but since that's too new for the list (and my Microtest Discport 14) I guess NT Server 4 SP 6.01 is good enough - it works for me anyway. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Colin Eby Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 8:58 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Need manual URL/hardcopy for HP Netserver LX Pro 6/200 server Russ -- Let me know if you need any other resources for this system. We're still using this model -- after four years of co-habitation, I couldn't know them much better. We have four or five of these, and one ultra-rare LXr-Pro8. I get around to doing a fresh build on them every 4 months or so. That's because they're part of our benchmarking equipment pool. So they get reconfigured very regularly. The performance engineering folks (myself included) use them. And they certainly do perform well, even if they are bordering on classic status. I understand you have a source for manuals already. So anything else you need, please let me know. One word of advice. I'd leave the RAM in. It's the RAM that keeps them running like much newer equipment, since there aren't that many applications that'll peg a quad, even an old one, they'll run best with everything resident in main. Second piece of advice, put a better video card in. There's an embedded one -- but it's a flicker-fest at anything higher than 800x600. Colin Eby Senior Consultant CSC Consulting __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From donm at cts.com Sun Jan 27 01:03:06 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Favorite 5.25's In-Reply-To: <3C536C45.1177A2A8@rain.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > John Allain wrote: > > > > Well, here's the list. > > I'll probably keep around 5... > > > > Canon MD 5501 ******************** 1.2 MB 96 TPI > > Mitsubishi MF504C-318U *********** ? - 1.2 MB 96 TPI > > Mitsumi D509V (qty2) *********** 1.2 MB 96 TPI > > Mitsumi D509V3 (qty4) > > NEC FD1157C ********************** 1.2 MB 96 TPI > > Olivetti XM 4311/3 28/85 ********* 1.2 MB 96 TPI > > Panasonic JU-455-7AAB LR55468 *** 360 KB 48 TPI > > Tandon TM65 ********************** 360 KB 48 TPI 65-2 > 1.2 MB 96 TPI 65-8L > > Teac FD-55 GFR (qty5) ********** 1.2 MB 96 TPI > > Toshiba ND-0801GR **************** ? - ?? > > The above info after the *** is from a list of drive numbers on a > printed spreadsheet I was given some years ago. > From CLeyson at aol.com Sun Jan 27 06:36:53 2002 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: New on Ebay - Worth checking out Message-ID: <10.18ef567c.29854e65@aol.com> Commodore PET 2001, BBC B and Master, C64, VIC20, C+4, Apple ][GS, Mac SE/30, Amiga 500, Amiga 1200 and Atari 2600 all in one aution. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1327699656 From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Jan 27 09:13:51 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: WTF? (was Re: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook") In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020127083921.02223208@pc> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Foust > Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 9:40 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: WTF? (was Re: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook") > > > At 12:44 AM 1/27/2002 -0500, Glen Goodwin wrote: > >[begin snippet] > >I reserve the right not to honor any bid made during the last 2 > minutes of > >one of my auctions. Also, I > >maintain a list of everyone who has ever "bid sniped" me on any auction > >that I was a bidder on, and I > >reserve the right to not honor any bids on my auction items from > any bidder > >on that list. > >[snippet ends] > > Does eBay allow this? > > - John > > No, eBay does not, and if someone gets caught performing an action like that, eBay will terminate their account. eBay does not recognize "sniping", particularly since their own bidding service basically performs that same function. It's just a matter of when you hit . --John From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jan 27 09:16:52 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <3C533FB6.28229.9001F77@localhost> References: <3C533517.640A1D@jetnet.ab.ca> <3C533FB6.28229.9001F77@localhost> Message-ID: > I similarly have an great affection for the Atari ST. The OS was >all in ram and >despite all the criticisms of TOS and the underlying GEM , it was a pretty >remarkable system for it's time. Just too bad it had the 4meg limitation and >that the Tramiels were in charge. Is Jack still alive? I've often wondered who did a worse job running their respective companies...he or Irving Gould at Commodore. Tramiel must be given credit for the early days of Commodore computers though and Atari was already losing loads of money when he took over. As for the ST, my only experience with them was with the 1040ST and MegaST-2. While I've never had the pleasure of trying one of the higher performance ST's, I always thought TOS was simple and speedy on the 68000 powered ones. I never cared for the low-res color output though so I've always stuck to using the SM124 with my Mega. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jan 27 10:33:58 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:13 2005 Subject: Fwd: Datapoint 1500 with printer Message-ID: Here's a system that I thought someone might be interested in. I received another email from him that suggested it also had dual 8" drive cabinets with it, as well as including images of it from a flyer or book. I'd take it in myself but do not have the space for it at the moment. If interested, please reply directly to the sender. I can provide the images to anyone that wants them, as well as his phone number. Jeff >Status: U >Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 20:08:37 -0800 >From: John Valentine >X-Accept-Language: en >To: jhellige@earthlink.net >Subject: Datapoint 1500 with printer > >Jeff: > >A friend of mine has a Datapoint 1500 with 160 cps printer. He is >looking for a home for the Datapoint. He was going to put it on ebay, >but we thought we would check the antique computer sites before doing >it. > >Are you interested? He lives in Fairfax, Virginia. > >John Valentine -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Jan 27 11:07:39 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: from Jeff Hellige at "Jan 27, 2 10:16:52 am" Message-ID: <200201271707.JAA09552@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > I similarly have an great affection for the Atari ST. The OS was > >all in ram and > >despite all the criticisms of TOS and the underlying GEM , it was a pretty > >remarkable system for it's time. Just too bad it had the 4meg limitation and > >that the Tramiels were in charge. > > Is Jack still alive? I've often wondered who did a worse job > running their respective companies...he or Irving Gould at Commodore. Yeah, supposedly he's still around. I liked seeing STs in the local Guitar Center for many years, even though I was never very fluent with them. But of course Jack's fifteen minutes were up with the C64. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Optimization hinders evolution. -------------------------------------------- From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jan 27 11:11:54 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: WTF? (was Re: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook") References: <5.0.0.25.0.20020127083921.02223208@pc> Message-ID: <3C5434DA.B64757AF@tiac.net> Frankly, no. This is illeagal. Failure to honor a bid is actionable. And frankly, I'd sue his ass if he did not honor my bid. John Foust wrote: > At 12:44 AM 1/27/2002 -0500, Glen Goodwin wrote: > >[begin snippet] > >I reserve the right not to honor any bid made during the last 2 minutes of > >one of my auctions. Also, I > >maintain a list of everyone who has ever "bid sniped" me on any auction > >that I was a bidder on, and I > >reserve the right to not honor any bids on my auction items from any bidder > >on that list. > >[snippet ends] > > Does eBay allow this? > > - John From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Sun Jan 27 11:18:13 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: TSU05 Docs? References: <20020125113306.E9918-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3C543655.F1C738DF@Vishay.com> > Also: When were the TS05 and its controllers released? I'm guessing > mid-80s. The TSV05 (Q-bus) was first (in 1984, I think), followed by the TSU05 (UNIBUS). I have some docs about TSV05 at home, so I might be able to find more precise data (I am currently in the office). Chips on my M7455 UNIBUS board bear date stamps like "8425" or "8432" on it, so I assume the board may have been made around Q4/1984. The only hint I found so far was that early TSU05s (UNIBUS) were not able to boot RSX-11/M in a PDP-11 (probably due to a firmware problem). The hint from 1984 says a firmware update is expected to be released "within the next six months", IIRC. Once booted from another device, RSX can happily use the tape, though. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From allain at panix.com Sun Jan 27 11:20:20 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: <20020127020450.50044.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> <006c01c1a6f6$f5421980$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <002a01c1a6fb$ccbfab80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <002701c1a756$e5d74140$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Sorry, I see you're a tough fighter, but to me things are about the truth, provable facts, etc. and not long winded explanations. I'll listen to long explanations on things that need to be explained, but to me right and wrong are sort of an intuitive thing. If a person cant reach an "Aha!" explanation in some reasonable time I have to just "Cut 'em loose". Some people just like to talk. I'll let them talk (this is America, after all) and when I listen and when I go about my own business is based on the relevance, and "lack of coersion" of the facts in the presentation. And I acknowledge that you know quite a few things in fields that I don't, or at least hope that you do, for the sake of your reputation. Here's your quote. > Actually, back in the Apple][ days, the BNC was not commonly > used for video and particularly not for NTSC video. No. John A. From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Sun Jan 27 11:30:46 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: WTF? (was Re: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook") References: <20020127054724.VQUY12031.imf20bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <3C543946.880DCB3F@verizon.net> Glen, Pat responded on this list, mentioning that he was considering toning that down. His feedback is of a decent size and with no negatives, so you should consider him to be reliable. If he accepts your payment, he'll ship you the item. It's just an approach to the issue of sniping which is unusual. I pointed out to him the fact that Yahoo Auctions has the feature which the seller can select of autoextending, which might better suit his needs and avoid a potential conflict over a late winning bid. Another, more diplomatic aproach could be a randomized ending time, so that if someone wanted the item, they would have to have a bid in early enough, or face the possibility of having lost their chance at it. Some very good discussion about the issue of sniping can be seen at ... http://www.geocities.com/phillipcreed/myths.html http://www.geocities.com/phillipcreed/ http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/supersniper/ Ian p.s. Pat, I didn't mean to bring "the wrath of the list" down upon you over this. Perhaps, with ( note to self ) calm, intelligent discussion, alternative solutions to a very controversial issue may come to surface. Glen Goodwin wrote: > > > From: Ian Koller > > > I looked at it, then checked your "me" page, then gave up. > > > > If you want auctions that automatically extend, you have > > that option as a seller on Yahoo. > > Ian, thanks for pointing this out. For the group, here's a snippet from > Pat's Ebay "me" page: > > [begin snippet] > > I reserve the right not to honor any bid made during the last 2 minutes of > one of my auctions. Also, I > maintain a list of everyone who has ever "bid sniped" me on any auction > that I was a bidder on, and I > reserve the right to not honor any bids on my auction items from any bidder > on that list. > > [snippet ends] > > I don't have a lot of Ebay experience, but I was under the impression that > it was a fairly level playing field, albeit one where "anything goes." If > someone comes up against me with a faster machine and a faster connection, > then I may be sniped. Oh well. This guy carries grudges and does not > appear to be a trustworthy person to deal with. I'll look more closely at > "me" pages in the future. Sheesh! > > Glen > 0/0 > > > Pat Barron wrote: > > > > > > I happened across one of these recently, and have no real interest in > > > Microdata. So, I've listed the thing on eBay, check it out if > > > interested... > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1326034396 > > > > > > --Pat. From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Jan 27 11:39:44 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: New Finds in Houston References: <01b001c1a45f$a3953e80$508f70d8@default> <1011825756.21874.0.camel@pirate> Message-ID: <00c801c1a759$9d706000$818d70d8@default> They are held by Goodwill and the Salvation Army ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Williams" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 4:42 PM Subject: Re: New Finds in Houston > Nice find. So where are these auctions in Houston? > > On Wed, 2002-01-23 at 16:44, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > > Well took some time off the job hunt and move to check out some of my > > old hangouts and found something I have been looking for, it's a working > > Vectrex in good shape with one controller and no games but the built in > > one for $25 at a local thrift. I have been watching these go high on > > eBay and figured I would not be able to get one anytime soon. I also > > picked up some game cartridges for the 2600, Virtual Boy, Game Gear, > > Jaguar, and some of the newer machines. The wife is making me hold off > > on buying until I start working again so I have not gone to any of the > > auctions here yet. There are 2 auctions here in Houston that you can > > find good deals at , one is only 2 days a week and the other is > > everyday. That's it for now keep on computing. > > > > > From als at thangorodrim.de Sun Jan 27 12:04:52 2002 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: References: <20020127011722.GA30097@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> Message-ID: <20020127180452.GB11598@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Sun, Jan 27, 2002 at 01:17:55AM +0000, Tony Duell wrote: > > I found some sources of the ink cartridges on the net, but most were > > selling them at rather high prices (around $25) - but you might get > > And presumably that's in the States, so I'd have shipping to pay on top > :-(. No, in Germany - I just translated all the prices to US $ because I guess that most folks on this list are from the US of A. I'm living in Germany and located (and bought) all the HP ThinkJet stuff there. > > lucky on Ebay. Just recently I managed to get a set of 8 ink cartridges > > for $15 on ebay.de - together with the two I managed to get there > > earlier I now have a reserve of 10 ink cartridges, which should last me > > I've seen these cartridges fail in storage (even unopened) -- the > aluminium (?) front of the 'printhead' section corroded away (large hole, > relatively, in it). So it may not be a good idea to stock up too much. That might also depend on the storage conditions. All the ink cartridges for the ThinkJet that I have are - as far as I can tell without actually putting them into the printer - in perfect condition. Just stored dry and at room temperature. > > quite some time. I even found the manual for the printer there for > > $1 ;-) > > User, or service manual? The first part of the former is all pictures It says "Owners Manual" on the front. > with almost no text. It took me a _long_ time to figure out what some of It _does_ contain quite a lot of pictures, especially in the first half of the manual. But the second half of it is a reference manual which contains things like the escape sequences needed to control the printer and basically everything I need should I feel the urge to write a custom driver for it. Regards, Alex. -- 9./10. M?rz: 4. Chemnitzer Linux-Tag http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/linux/tag/ "I sense much NT in you. NT leads to Blue Screen, Blue Screen leads to downtime, downtime leads to suffering. NT is the path to the Dark Side." -- Ellsworth, one small voice From foo at siconic.com Sun Jan 27 06:15:15 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Any interest in "Uptime: The Disk Monthly" diskettes? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020126232303.03e773d0@enigma> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Dan Veeneman wrote: > While looking for 3.5" 720K discs to format on a HP-150 that I bought > (yes, I sometimes actually pay money for classic computers, > especially if they're Hewlett-Packard) from Bill Sudbrink, I came > across a set of diskettes labelled > > Uptime: The Disk Monthly > > Volume 2 Number 1, for instance, is copyright 1986 by Viking Technologies out > of Newport, Rhode Island, and has the following table of contents: > > Loan Calculator, Seasoned Clip Art, Stepping Out Demo, TermWorks, > 3D TicTacToe, Hacker Interview, Biorhythm, Gone Fishin' DA, > Little Black Book DA and Preview. > > I've got at least five diskettes with pre-printed labels, another half > dozen with > typewritten labels (e.g. "Uptime 2.8") and one labeled "The Best of Uptime, > Brought to you by Macworld". > > Is there any interest or reason to save these, or can I go ahead and reformat > them without fear of losing something someone on this list might want? You should save them. At least I would. If you don't want them, contact me off list ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sun Jan 27 06:21:29 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Fwd: Datapoint 1500 with printer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is a cool system worth rescuing. Datapoint hardware has been discussed before several times so check the archives for more info. On Sun, 27 Jan 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Here's a system that I thought someone might be interested > in. I received another email from him that suggested it also had > dual 8" drive cabinets with it, as well as including images of it > from a flyer or book. I'd take it in myself but do not have the > space for it at the moment. If interested, please reply directly to > the sender. I can provide the images to anyone that wants them, as > well as his phone number. > > Jeff > > >Status: U > >Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 20:08:37 -0800 > >From: John Valentine > >X-Accept-Language: en > >To: jhellige@earthlink.net > >Subject: Datapoint 1500 with printer > > > >Jeff: > > > >A friend of mine has a Datapoint 1500 with 160 cps printer. He is > >looking for a home for the Datapoint. He was going to put it on ebay, > >but we thought we would check the antique computer sites before doing > >it. > > > >Are you interested? He lives in Fairfax, Virginia. > > > >John Valentine > > -- > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.cchaven.com > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jan 27 15:33:47 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Fwd: Datapoint 1500 with printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >This is a cool system worth rescuing. Datapoint hardware has been >discussed before several times so check the archives for more info. I thought so as well but currently have no place to put it myself. He said they're working on an eBay ad for it that they will soon post. There's not much info available for the Datapoint systems out there and there don't seem to be any/many in people's collections. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 27 13:23:08 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: <006c01c1a6f6$f5421980$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20020127192308.55456.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Allain wrote: > > Apples and oranges. Comparing a PC-AT and a uVAX-II > > Has there ever been a case where he hasn't taken the last word? > I think if I had enough wind to outblow Richard I'd be set for a > long and successful career in politics. Thank-You no. John... check the attribution... that was _my_ reply refuting that in 1987 a PC-AT was an obvious choice for a computer as compared to an uVAX-II. It was long winded, yes, but I included some datapoints from my memories of the time to support _my_ assertion that the PC-AT, IBM or clone, was not the one-and-only obvious choice for computing 15 years ago. We were an all-DEC shop and did not get a PC until the acct. dept purchased a PS/2 Model 30 (which I still have) for *big* moola. We only got it so we could run PC accounting software. Even the accountants still used MASS-11 for wordprocessing and VAX MAIL for e-mail, even though they had a PC... back then, each PC was an island, and the VAX was our common work place. I still say, if you need VMS, for 1987, the uVAX-II was the way to go for a new machine. If you didn't need VMS, there were plenty of other computers to buy. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jan 27 14:36:52 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: <20020127192308.55456.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002101c1a772$5a51b8a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> No one can argue with that! At Martin Marietta, very much a DEC-loving establishment in '87, we were contemplating building a microVAX equivalent on the extended VME bus just to get away from the extreme cost problems with rotating memory and graphics display equipment from DEC, though. This was because we'd been building our own enclosure, backplane, etc, in order to make the uVAX-II hardware, which was COTS stuff, happy with the required mil-spec temperature range. The reason for all this effort was VMS, which seemed to satisfy most of the requirements for functionality and security that other OS' left hanging in one way or another. I've not heard much criticism of VMS over the years. BTW, that MASS-11 was claimed to work on the PC in the same way as it worked under VMS, but it didn't. It was claimed to be capable of editing in columns, which it did only "sorta" since it scrambled the columns if you handled it incorrectly and the resulting mess was irreparable. This was a minor point, but one that bit us in the *ss, as the presentation layour for the testing procedures, of which there were thousands, relied on the ability to edit the procedures after they'd been prepared in columnar form. At one point I had the ignominious task of itemizing the points on which MASS-11 failed to meet our requirements, and, as it turned out, every point that had been used to justify its acquisition for project-wide use turned out to be on that list. The big boss (engineering manager) had been convinced, since he didn't have to use the thing, that it worked fine, due to clever presentation and salesmanship. He had one of his subordinates fire me from the project, and the VP-level program manager had to hire me back a week or two later. That's not to say that MASS-11 wasn't a good and valuable tool, only that it had been sorely misrepresented in this case, in order to make the sale. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 12:23 PM Subject: Re: Bell & Howell Apple II update > > --- John Allain wrote: > > > Apples and oranges. Comparing a PC-AT and a uVAX-II > > > > Has there ever been a case where he hasn't taken the last word? > > I think if I had enough wind to outblow Richard I'd be set for a > > long and successful career in politics. Thank-You no. > > John... check the attribution... that was _my_ reply refuting that > in 1987 a PC-AT was an obvious choice for a computer as compared to > an uVAX-II. It was long winded, yes, but I included some datapoints > from my memories of the time to support _my_ assertion that the PC-AT, > IBM or clone, was not the one-and-only obvious choice for computing > 15 years ago. We were an all-DEC shop and did not get a PC until the > acct. dept purchased a PS/2 Model 30 (which I still have) for *big* > moola. We only got it so we could run PC accounting software. Even > the accountants still used MASS-11 for wordprocessing and VAX MAIL > for e-mail, even though they had a PC... back then, each PC was an island, > and the VAX was our common work place. > > I still say, if you need VMS, for 1987, the uVAX-II was the way to go > for a new machine. If you didn't need VMS, there were plenty of other > computers to buy. > > -ethan > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! > http://auctions.yahoo.com > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jan 27 14:04:02 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: <20020127020450.50044.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> <006c01c1a6f6$f5421980$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <002a01c1a6fb$ccbfab80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <002701c1a756$e5d74140$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <001b01c1a76e$5d1e6a00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It's not about fighiting or winning or losing, but rather about preventing rewriting of history, intentional or inadvertent, by skewing the relative timeline. This happens because people unwittingly take things out of context as you've perhaps done here. The discussion was about microcomputers and, specifically, the video connector on the Apple ][. When the Apple ][ came out, cable TV was not yet a common reality (That changed rapidly in the early '80's, but, in '77-'78, was not yet the case.) Video in this context, did not include notions like the VCR and set-top boxes, nor did it include other sorts of equipment that most folks outside the TV production industry had not even yet seen, simply because it was too costly for the microcomputing arena. Apple put the RCA jack on the back of their computer because (a) it was cheap, and (b) the signal wouldn't have to travel far. That way they ensured they could "get away" with that choice. They, and others in their field had to make choices on the basis of what things cost at the time. In the TV production studio equipment market, where things cost in the 5- or 6-figure price range, the presence of a connector that would cost on the order of $20 per connection point (remember what it cost to assemble the things!) didn't matter so much. BNC had been around for a long time, and so had the PL/SO-259. Both were capable of carrying wideband signals, and both cost about the same. Someone had made the choice, probably in the '50's, to use the latter in closed-circuit TV applications, and that's what one found on the back of most of the production monitors priced suitably for microcomputer applications in the '70's. As the term "video" came to mean what it does today, i.e. something that you see via TV equipment, the 'F' connector became the common connector of that market. I doubt the BNC is worse than the 'F' but the 'F' is quite a bit cheaper and offers the fact that it directly uses the center conductor of the cable as its medium rather than requiring a crimped or soldered center pin. I don't know that it makes a big difference in NTSC video, but in broadband transmission it probably does reduce discontinuities in the transmisison line. As far as reaching that "Aha!" to which you've referred, I'd have thought you'd at least have taken a peek at the ads in an old BYTE or Kilobaud mag of the '77 to '80 period, where you'd easily see what I meant. I've given away my old mag's from back then, though I still find 'em lying about. However, I have catalogs and other trade mags that I can look at. Looking at production studio video equipment wouldn't shed light on the subject, but looking the trade mag's for the microcomputer industry would do it. Being right in the sense of winning an argument isn't as important as having the facts straight when you get done. What bothers me about such remarks as the one that was originally made, sort-of on the line of, "our video lab had BNC connectors on all the equipment ..." might well have been quite correct, but it distorted the context, i.e. microcomputer video equipment and TV studio equipment were entirely different universes in the '70's. That it's changed should surprise noone, but skewing the timeline leads to conclusions such as how stupid it was to use one connector, when, in fact, the decision was made strictly on the basis of price and availability, and the relative cleverness of the underlying decision from an engineering standpoint was not a primary concern. (It leads to tiresome and inane complaints about how dumb it was to use a VAX when a Pentium III would have been so much better.) I seriously doubt that Jobs and Wozniak considered the BNC for more than about 1 microsecond because of cost, and other factors played no role at all. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 10:20 AM Subject: Re: Bell & Howell Apple II update > Sorry, I see you're a tough fighter, but to me things are about the > truth, provable facts, etc. and not long winded explanations. I'll > listen to long explanations on things that need to be explained, > but to me right and wrong are sort of an intuitive thing. If a person > can't reach an "Aha!" explanation in some reasonable time I have > to just "Cut 'em loose". Some people just like to talk. I'll let them > talk (this is America, after all) and when I listen and when I go about > my own business is based on the relevance, and "lack of coersion" > of the facts in the presentation. And I acknowledge that you know > quite a few things in fields that I don't, or at least hope that you do, > for the sake of your reputation. > > Here's your quote. > > Actually, back in the Apple][ days, the BNC was not commonly > > used for video and particularly not for NTSC video. > No. > > John A. > > From wlewis at mailbag.com Sun Jan 27 14:54:16 2002 From: wlewis at mailbag.com (William Barnett-Lewis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Wanted: DEC Lisp PAK Message-ID: <3C5468F8.68488272@mailbag.com> Longshot, but someone here might have one or know where to find one. I'd like find a DEC Lisp PAK that someone is willing to sell/trade/give me. It seems there is no one at Compaq who is able/willing to assist and they have an IP issue with putting it on the free software list. Hence, transfering a license appears to be the only way to get that software running. Thanks, William -- You better watch out What you wish for; It better be worth it So much to die for. Courtney Love From rhblakeman at kih.net Sun Jan 27 15:19:33 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord Message-ID: Need a power cable for the Netserver, they got one with all of the machines they bought for resale so I have to locate one. It's a standard PC type (HP) plug on the server side except that it's got a dimple on the side opposite the angled corners and it's either 16 or 14AWG due to the 12A draw of the server. I also assume it to have a different plug, not sure though. I'm sure that other applications use the same thing with all the heavy servers out there and that someone has an aftermarket source or has a few ratholed with no immenent use for it/them. HP has theirs listd for US as 8120-5395 but is no longer available (go figure - no power cord and you have a useless server). I really don't want to chance grooving a standard 18AWG cord and watching the fire dept as they hose my shop and new server down. I just checked JDR and Jameco - Jameco lists a standard cable at 14AWG but no real picture of the end, just a generic photo/figure. Now it's time to dig out the Mouser and Digikey catalogs - might find the HP end that I need, I have plenty of heavy duty power cables with regular female outlets (some 12AWG) that I can use. In that case I could even wire it direct or to 220 (autoranging/adjusting unit). Have to research a little I guess. From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jan 27 15:38:29 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord In-Reply-To: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord (Russ Blakeman) References: Message-ID: <15444.29525.974305.570727@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 27, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Need a power cable for the Netserver, they got one with all of the machines > they bought for resale so I have to locate one. It's a standard PC type (HP) > plug on the server side except that it's got a dimple on the side opposite > the angled corners and it's either 16 or 14AWG due to the 12A draw of the > server. I also assume it to have a different plug, not sure though. I'm sure > that other applications use the same thing with all the heavy servers out > there and that someone has an aftermarket source or has a few ratholed with > no immenent use for it/them. This is a standard high-current IEC power connector. They're used on several models of MicroVAX, several larger Cisco routers, and lots of other things. They shouldn't be too hard to find. Someone who carries Cisco supplies will have them. I think the 7513 uses these, in particular. > I really don't want to chance grooving a standard 18AWG cord and watching > the fire dept as they hose my shop and new server down. I wouldn't worry too much about this. Use an ammeter to check the current draw if you're really concerned...but I have a couple of DEC 4000/400 machines that have these power connectors, and they pull a whopping [measured] 3A. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From rhblakeman at kih.net Sun Jan 27 16:09:56 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord In-Reply-To: <15444.29525.974305.570727@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: Appreciate that and I'll check around. The unit has 3 redundant 410 watt power supplies and I think I know someone locally with a ton of Cisco crap (they call him Cisco kid for some reason, der). I think for testing I'm going to hit the connectr with a hot soldering iron to dimple it but if the current gets the cord warm or it shows too much draw on the circuit I'll lose that cable in a box somewhere. Luckily I'm in the process of converting the electrical system in this 1952 house from fuses to breakers and upgrading the outside service as well from 100amp to 200 amp service, so I can afford to run a single breaker for the server to a single box and that way it's safe. I thought I saw a cable like this on a Vax but it's been sometime since I had seen it/one. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dave McGuire Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 3:38 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord On January 27, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Need a power cable for the Netserver, they got one with all of the machines > they bought for resale so I have to locate one. It's a standard PC type (HP) > plug on the server side except that it's got a dimple on the side opposite > the angled corners and it's either 16 or 14AWG due to the 12A draw of the > server. I also assume it to have a different plug, not sure though. I'm sure > that other applications use the same thing with all the heavy servers out > there and that someone has an aftermarket source or has a few ratholed with > no immenent use for it/them. This is a standard high-current IEC power connector. They're used on several models of MicroVAX, several larger Cisco routers, and lots of other things. They shouldn't be too hard to find. Someone who carries Cisco supplies will have them. I think the 7513 uses these, in particular. > I really don't want to chance grooving a standard 18AWG cord and watching > the fire dept as they hose my shop and new server down. I wouldn't worry too much about this. Use an ammeter to check the current draw if you're really concerned...but I have a couple of DEC 4000/400 machines that have these power connectors, and they pull a whopping [measured] 3A. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sun Jan 27 16:50:26 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord References: Message-ID: <3C548432.BDC6E23A@ccp.com> Russ Blakeman wrote: > > Need a power cable for the Netserver, they got one with all of the machines > they bought for resale so I have to locate one. It's a standard PC type (HP) > plug on the server side except that it's got a dimple on the side opposite > the angled corners and it's either 16 or 14AWG due to the 12A draw of the > server. I also assume it to have a different plug, not sure though. I'm sure > that other applications use the same thing with all the heavy servers out > there and that someone has an aftermarket source or has a few ratholed with > no immenent use for it/them. > > HP has theirs listd for US as 8120-5395 but is no longer available (go > figure - no power cord and you have a useless server). > > I really don't want to chance grooving a standard 18AWG cord and watching > the fire dept as they hose my shop and new server down. > > I just checked JDR and Jameco - Jameco lists a standard cable at 14AWG but > no real picture of the end, just a generic photo/figure. Now it's time to > dig out the Mouser and Digikey catalogs - might find the HP end that I need, > I have plenty of heavy duty power cables with regular female outlets (some > 12AWG) that I can use. In that case I could even wire it direct or to 220 > (autoranging/adjusting unit). Have to research a little I guess. Wonder what the dimple is for? should be able to use a standard IEC connector cord with heay gauge wire. Can't believe that thing is that big of a juice hog. Electric heaters draw about that much power. Gary Hildebrand From rhblakeman at kih.net Sun Jan 27 16:20:10 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord In-Reply-To: <3C548432.BDC6E23A@ccp.com> Message-ID: I believe (from what the part number says ) to prevent standard 18awg cords from being usedd. Once Dave gave me the IEC hint I found 10A cords in Digikey for $3.50 each, stright or angled. I hadn't reffered to them as IEC in a while so searches didn't pick up on what I needed. Worst part is that the manufacturer is named "assman" - I think of myself as an "assman" but don't label myself as such :-) -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Gary Hildebrand Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 4:50 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord Russ Blakeman wrote: > > Need a power cable for the Netserver, they got one with all of the machines > they bought for resale so I have to locate one. It's a standard PC type (HP) > plug on the server side except that it's got a dimple on the side opposite > the angled corners and it's either 16 or 14AWG due to the 12A draw of the > server. I also assume it to have a different plug, not sure though. I'm sure > that other applications use the same thing with all the heavy servers out > there and that someone has an aftermarket source or has a few ratholed with > no immenent use for it/them. > > HP has theirs listd for US as 8120-5395 but is no longer available (go > figure - no power cord and you have a useless server). > > I really don't want to chance grooving a standard 18AWG cord and watching > the fire dept as they hose my shop and new server down. > > I just checked JDR and Jameco - Jameco lists a standard cable at 14AWG but > no real picture of the end, just a generic photo/figure. Now it's time to > dig out the Mouser and Digikey catalogs - might find the HP end that I need, > I have plenty of heavy duty power cables with regular female outlets (some > 12AWG) that I can use. In that case I could even wire it direct or to 220 > (autoranging/adjusting unit). Have to research a little I guess. Wonder what the dimple is for? should be able to use a standard IEC connector cord with heay gauge wire. Can't believe that thing is that big of a juice hog. Electric heaters draw about that much power. Gary Hildebrand From bpope at wordstock.com Sun Jan 27 15:51:50 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Battlebot vs. PET In-Reply-To: <20020127004017.J15773-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at Jan 27, 02 00:44:20 am Message-ID: <200201272151.QAA11640@wordstock.com> And thusly Jeffrey S. Sharp spake: > > I'm watching Battlebots at the moment, and I just saw a demonstration of a > blade-spinning bot. The demo involved shredding a Commodore PET to bits. > I'm not much of a Commodore enthusiast, but I was quite taken aback. This is just sad.. But I bet the PET put up quite a fight with its super strong metal case. ;) Did you see what model it was? > > Note to self: not everyone in the world thinks like us. That is what the molten iron is made for! :-D Cheers, Bryan From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jan 27 16:13:18 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Battlebot vs. PET In-Reply-To: <200201272151.QAA11640@wordstock.com> References: <200201272151.QAA11640@wordstock.com> Message-ID: > > I'm watching Battlebots at the moment, and I just saw a demonstration of a >> blade-spinning bot. The demo involved shredding a Commodore PET to bits. >> I'm not much of a Commodore enthusiast, but I was quite taken aback. > >This is just sad.. But I bet the PET put up quite a fight with its super >strong metal case. ;) Did you see what model it was? Not all of the PET's had folded metal cases though. My 2001-16N has a plastic upper casing with only the base being of metal. I hope they removed the CRT prior to the abuse.... Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 27 13:32:51 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <200201270139.g0R1dJY85205@daemonweed.reanimators.org> from "Frank McConnell" at Jan 26, 2 05:39:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1452 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020127/b8a10e52/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 27 16:17:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <200201270244.g0R2iHN26064@ns2.ezwind.net> from "Chris" at Jan 26, 2 09:44:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 899 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020127/a76fe018/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 27 16:31:49 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <20020127180452.GB11598@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> from "Alexander Schreiber" at Jan 27, 2 07:04:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1681 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020127/67e2e038/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 27 16:18:22 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Is this a IBM RT mouse? In-Reply-To: <15443.30471.54536.961922@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Jan 26, 2 10:41:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 131 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020127/799b14ba/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 27 16:23:21 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: RS-232 (was Re: IBM 3101 Dip Switches Configuration) In-Reply-To: <20020127043901.91176.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jan 26, 2 08:39:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1388 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020127/e3cf3a29/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jan 27 16:36:59 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord In-Reply-To: Re: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord (Gary Hildebrand) References: <3C548432.BDC6E23A@ccp.com> Message-ID: <15444.33035.714078.469285@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 27, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > Wonder what the dimple is for? should be able to use a standard IEC > connector cord with heay gauge wire. Can't believe that thing is that > big of a juice hog. Electric heaters draw about that much power. There are three "standard" IEC power connectors...there's the one we're all used to, the one with the dimple (higher current) and a larger square one (still higher current). -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Sun Jan 27 16:39:01 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Wanted: DEC Lisp PAK References: <3C5468F8.68488272@mailbag.com> Message-ID: <3C548185.65F9D0F4@Vishay.com> William, Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ and the list of products your problem? - Indeed, I cannot see LISP there, but they won't want you to fake a license in order to make the software run, will they? ;-) Did you talk to them and mention that several other programming languages are part of the hobbyist program? Andreas William Barnett-Lewis wrote: > > Longshot, but someone here might have one or know where to find one. > > I'd like find a DEC Lisp PAK that someone is willing to sell/trade/give > me. It seems there is no one at Compaq who is able/willing to assist and > they have an IP issue with putting it on the free software list. Hence, > transfering a license appears to be the only way to get that software > running. > > Thanks, > > William > -- > You better watch out What you wish for; > It better be worth it So much to die for. > Courtney Love -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From out2sea00 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 27 16:48:30 2002 From: out2sea00 at yahoo.com (Colin Eby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: IBM 5362 Update Message-ID: <20020127224830.50977.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com> Folks -- Just a little update on a project I had posted the list about.... ... when we last saw our hero he was expecting the arrival of a bouncing baby S/36. Alright -- so it's really a teenager, and bouncing it hardly appropriate.... And he was worried about getting documentation and SSP Disks. Here's the news. The system's here -- and I've cleaned out the cobwebs, microvac'ing one card gingerly at a time. I found the maintenance manual -- under the case where IBM put it from day one. The display station arrived (costing more than the server). Power was applied and two wonderous things happened: First, the lights *didn't* dim. This flat only has a 10A service and the machine's rated at 10A ( not to mention the other beasties sharing the aforementioned amperage). I had visions of that mammoth disk grinding into life while the neighorhood was plunged into darkness. I realize there are three phase 240 V devotee's on this list. I exhort them to understand my newbie thills at this minor first achievement, and not scoff outloud. Second, the silly thing actually IPL'd. I don't of course have a valid account for it. And so I've been hunting for installation media or hacking instructions. I think I've located the latter, but may end up requiring the former anyway. The diagnostic utilities have been partially removed from the fixed disk -- I suspect this was a space saving ploy. So some of the applications required to read the raw disk and seek the password file aren't available to me. For that I will need at least the diagnostic disk. Please volunteer suggestions on acquiring one of those (8" of course). Saddly this was a much as I've achieved. The second effort at an IPL failed -- and I'm still trying to track down the SRC cause. I'm not begging for help on that one just yet, though once again -- the diagnostic disk would be helpful. Please, please volunteer suggestions on acquiring one of those (8" of course). More information will be forthcoming, sometime next weekend -- probably whether anyone cares or not. I figure I'm entitled since at least my babbling is squarely on thread (and who knows, maybe of use to someone browsing through the profit/non-profit/useless classic/dual-athlon posts for a reference to retro-machines someday). ;->~ No that was not an open-flaming-season invitation. Just a good hearted jibe. Your's in 16bit brotherhood, Colin Eby Senior Consultant CSC Consulting PS -- Anyone have a spare left shift key for an IBM P70. I'm afraid I missing one, and this keyboard's somewhat unique to the model. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 24 15:20:59 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Kinda OT but that what's true HW hacker do in a pinch. In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Jan 24, 2 05:01:19 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2096 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020124/69cdbf71/attachment.ksh From root at diablonet.net Thu Jan 24 17:46:20 2002 From: root at diablonet.net (Netdiablo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: UofM Property Disposition Message-ID: <3C509B01.B62822FC@diablonet.net> Hi everyone! I went to the University of Michigan Property Dispotition warehouse today, and I've got a couple of questions and other related things to say. 1. To the couple of people who asked me about the NeXTDimension Cube that was there last month, my apologies, but someone else got to it before I could. 2. I saw a DEC pedestal cabinet there that looked exactly like a VAX 4000 series machine, but it was just labeled "R 4000". I'm assuming this was some sort of VAX, and there seems to have been a thread on the NetBSD/vax mailing list about it a while back, but since their mailing list archive server seems to be down at the moment, can anyone tell me more about this machine? I'm a bit curious as to what it is. 3. There was an interesting looking Evans & Sutherland computer there labeled as an ES-3. I popped the front cover off of it and it looked relatively sophisticated, but I didn't actually pull any boards and get a good look at them since they don't like people doing that sort of thing there at the warehouse. I read somewhere that this box runs UNIX and had some pretty nice graphics capabilities for its time. Does anyone know much about these (e.g. architechture, history, OS specifics, etc)? Does anyone know how they stacked up to SGIs of the era and similar competing machines? The thing's kind of heavy and transportation to and from the warehouse is pretty evil for me, but if its a really nifty machine, I'd like to save it (I've certainly never seen one before). Unfortunately there didn't seem to be any monitor, keyboard, or mouse included with it. Does anyone know any specifics about these either? Hmmm... other oddiments there that were kind of interesting included a dual 8" Data General floppy disk drive, an old SGI POWER SERIES Twin Tower machine, and probably some other stuff that I'm forgetting. Just thought I'd mention them in case someone lived in the area and was interested in taking a look. Kind regards, Sean Caron -- Sean Caron http://www.diablonet.net scaron@engin.umich.edu root@diablonet.net From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jan 27 16:47:14 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Battlebot vs. PET In-Reply-To: <200201272151.QAA11640@wordstock.com> References: <20020127004017.J15773-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020127174714.007bf780@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:51 PM 1/27/02 -0500, you wrote: >And thusly Jeffrey S. Sharp spake: >> >> I'm watching Battlebots at the moment, and I just saw a demonstration of a >> blade-spinning bot. The demo involved shredding a Commodore PET to bits. >> I'm not much of a Commodore enthusiast, but I was quite taken aback. > >This is just sad.. But I bet the PET put up quite a fight with its super >strong metal case. ;) Did you see what model it was? It's too bad they didn't try that on Grid! I'll bet that it's magnesium case would have put up a good fight. Or else took the BattleBot with it when it caught on fire! That would have been fun to see too! Joe From LFessen106 at aol.com Sun Jan 27 16:57:28 2002 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Battlebot vs. PET Message-ID: <186.272cdbe.2985dfd8@aol.com> In a message dated 1/27/02 5:51:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, rigdonj@cfl.rr.com writes: > It's too bad they didn't try that on Grid! I'll bet that it's magnesium > case would have put up a good fight. Or else took the BattleBot with it > when it caught on fire! That would have been fun to see too! > > Joe > > No doubt! I still have a GRiDcase 3 in the magnesium alloy case. I have heard stories about the army dropping these from helicopters and dusting them off -n- starting them back up again. They have to weigh 30 pounds and they are built like a brick. The one I have came from retirement from the water conservation dept field officer. After *years* of continued service there isn't a dent in it or a scratch deeper than the paintjob - and there aren't many of those! -Linc. In The Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... Calculating in binary code is as easy as 01,10,11. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020127/58fdbe36/attachment.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 27 16:54:40 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: <001b01c1a76e$5d1e6a00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jan 27, 2 01:04:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2250 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020127/ac05d6cc/attachment.ksh From allain at panix.com Sun Jan 27 17:26:31 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: <20020127192308.55456.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006e01c1a78a$0db0caa0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > John... check the attribution... that was _my_ reply refuting that > in 1987 a PC-AT was an obvious choice for a computer as Sorry If I wasn't clear in what or who I was talking about. No offence intended to you Ethan. Yeah, there's no question that DEC is dead now, that it was expensive, and that if you were lucky to use it, most often impressive. Sometimes I feel I should work on a good defense for the company, for that time sometime --in the future-- when somebody wants to call their history or parts of it B.S. John A. From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Jan 27 17:17:51 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord In-Reply-To: <15444.33035.714078.469285@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > On January 27, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > > Wonder what the dimple is for? should be able to use a standard IEC > > connector cord with heay gauge wire. Can't believe that thing is that > > big of a juice hog. Electric heaters draw about that much power. > > There are three "standard" IEC power connectors...there's the one > we're all used to, the one with the dimple (higher current) and a > larger square one (still higher current). There are also ones for 240V high current gear. Maybe these are same same as the square one you mentioned? My SGI 210S machine uses one of these cables to connect the main PSU to the power distribution box. The power distribution box uses a 240V 30A twist-lock power cord. The main PSU supplies 100s of Amps at 5V to the card cage and main drives. Just looking the large bus bars used for power distribution is spooky. Speaking of which, does anyone know what the nuts for these should be torqued to? I had to break the unit down when I originally transported it, and am not sure how tight to tighten them. Should I also use some anti-seize compound on the threads when torquing the nuts down? -Toth From rhblakeman at kih.net Sun Jan 27 17:22:14 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord In-Reply-To: <15444.33035.714078.469285@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: I found some info in Oz that the normal IEC is a C13, the appliance/high current with the notch is a C15. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dave McGuire Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 4:37 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord On January 27, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > Wonder what the dimple is for? should be able to use a standard IEC > connector cord with heay gauge wire. Can't believe that thing is that > big of a juice hog. Electric heaters draw about that much power. There are three "standard" IEC power connectors...there's the one we're all used to, the one with the dimple (higher current) and a larger square one (still higher current). -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From allain at panix.com Sun Jan 27 18:01:59 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: <20020127020450.50044.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> <006c01c1a6f6$f5421980$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <002a01c1a6fb$ccbfab80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <002701c1a756$e5d74140$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <001b01c1a76e$5d1e6a00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <008101c1a78f$02186680$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >From >: It's not about fighiting or winning or losing, but rather... To >: ...cost, and other factors played no role at all. Richard, OK, I read all 3,876 bytes of your explanation. I'm willing to make peace on this. The video market, as restricted to computers for the hobbyist, used alot of PL/SO-259 connectors. Note thats doubly restricted and exclusive of professional video and professional video computing. Great, now I agree with you. I forced myself to walk outside and have a nice day. I hope that you are also able to enjoy yourself between all the typing. John A. From jss at subatomix.com Sun Jan 27 18:15:41 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Battlebot vs. PET In-Reply-To: <200201272151.QAA11640@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20020127181457.Q17469-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Sun, 27 Jan 2002, Bryan Pope wrote: > And thusly Jeffrey S. Sharp spake: > > > > I'm watching Battlebots at the moment, and I just saw a demonstration of a > > blade-spinning bot. The demo involved shredding a Commodore PET to bits. > > I'm not much of a Commodore enthusiast, but I was quite taken aback. > > This is just sad.. But I bet the PET put up quite a fight with its super > strong metal case. ;) Did you see what model it was? Heh. This was the biggest, baddest blade-spinning bot I've ever seen. It tore the PET to shreds in seconds. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jan 27 18:30:59 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: Re: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards (Tony Duell) References: <200201270139.g0R1dJY85205@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <15444.39875.463964.115462@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 27, Tony Duell wrote: > I must say I've been very impressed with the HP82169 HPIL-HPIB interface. > It's pretty much plug-n-play for most applications :-)). Hey, wait a minute...that might solve a problem for me. I have a time-critical need for an HPIB thinkjet, and mine is in storage a thousand miles from here. I have an HPIL thinkjet here, though, and an 82169A HPIL-HPIB interface. Can I use that interface to connect my HPIL thinkjet to the HPIB output of my scope (HP 54111D)? -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 27 18:48:27 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: <002101c1a772$5a51b8a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20020128004827.80595.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > BTW, that MASS-11 was claimed to work on the PC in the same way as it > worked under VMS, but it didn't... I wrote: > > Even the accountants still used MASS-11 for wordprocessing and > > VAX MAIL for e-mail, even though they had a PC... I didn't mean to suggest that we used MASS-11 on the PC - we only used it on the 11/750. It was a dog, but since we had daisy-wheel printers, the output was quite acceptable. We mostly wrote sales letters and end-user documentation with it anyway, well within its abilities. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jan 27 18:18:17 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord In-Reply-To: Re: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord (Tothwolf) References: <15444.33035.714078.469285@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15444.39113.44420.358502@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 27, Tothwolf wrote: > > There are three "standard" IEC power connectors...there's the one > > we're all used to, the one with the dimple (higher current) and a > > larger square one (still higher current). > > There are also ones for 240V high current gear. Maybe these are same same > as the square one you mentioned? My SGI 210S machine uses one of these > cables to connect the main PSU to the power distribution box. The power > distribution box uses a 240V 30A twist-lock power cord. The main PSU The square ones used on the deskside Challenge and Onyx systems are 120V. I've never seen a 240V version, but then everything I've done with 240V has been twist-lok connectors. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From rhblakeman at kih.net Sun Jan 27 18:49:24 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord In-Reply-To: <15444.39113.44420.358502@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: One thing I did do for now (since the server is still pretty basic) is to notch a C13 type with the iron and then pullone of the 410 watt powwer supplies and boot - all is well for now, sure I can find a power cord like this in either one of the "junk boxes" or when I order parts for other jobs this week. My main concern was powering it up and checking things out. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dave McGuire Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 6:18 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord On January 27, Tothwolf wrote: > > There are three "standard" IEC power connectors...there's the one > > we're all used to, the one with the dimple (higher current) and a > > larger square one (still higher current). > > There are also ones for 240V high current gear. Maybe these are same same > as the square one you mentioned? My SGI 210S machine uses one of these > cables to connect the main PSU to the power distribution box. The power > distribution box uses a 240V 30A twist-lock power cord. The main PSU The square ones used on the deskside Challenge and Onyx systems are 120V. I've never seen a 240V version, but then everything I've done with 240V has been twist-lok connectors. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From rhblakeman at kih.net Sun Jan 27 18:14:19 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:14 2005 Subject: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here's a pretty good explanation of the IEC types I found: http://www.powercords.co.uk/iec320.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tothwolf Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 5:18 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord On Sun, 27 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > On January 27, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > > Wonder what the dimple is for? should be able to use a standard IEC > > connector cord with heay gauge wire. Can't believe that thing is that > > big of a juice hog. Electric heaters draw about that much power. > > There are three "standard" IEC power connectors...there's the one > we're all used to, the one with the dimple (higher current) and a > larger square one (still higher current). There are also ones for 240V high current gear. Maybe these are same same as the square one you mentioned? My SGI 210S machine uses one of these cables to connect the main PSU to the power distribution box. The power distribution box uses a 240V 30A twist-lock power cord. The main PSU supplies 100s of Amps at 5V to the card cage and main drives. Just looking the large bus bars used for power distribution is spooky. Speaking of which, does anyone know what the nuts for these should be torqued to? I had to break the unit down when I originally transported it, and am not sure how tight to tighten them. Should I also use some anti-seize compound on the threads when torquing the nuts down? -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Jan 27 19:11:08 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord In-Reply-To: <15444.39113.44420.358502@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > On January 27, Tothwolf wrote: > > > There are three "standard" IEC power connectors...there's the one > > > we're all used to, the one with the dimple (higher current) and a > > > larger square one (still higher current). > > > > There are also ones for 240V high current gear. Maybe these are same same > > as the square one you mentioned? My SGI 210S machine uses one of these > > cables to connect the main PSU to the power distribution box. The power > > distribution box uses a 240V 30A twist-lock power cord. The main PSU > > The square ones used on the deskside Challenge and Onyx systems are > 120V. I've never seen a 240V version, but then everything I've done > with 240V has been twist-lok connectors. My SGI 4D/210S is in a Predator rack. I think most of the large rack mounted SGI machines were 240V. The deskside 4D series machines I have are 120V 20A twist-lock. -Toth From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 27 18:56:14 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <15444.39875.463964.115462@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Jan 27, 2 07:30:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1817 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020128/4da6877d/attachment.ksh From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Jan 27 19:09:50 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: References: <3C533FB6.28229.9001F77@localhost> <3C533517.640A1D@jetnet.ab.ca> <3C533FB6.28229.9001F77@localhost> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020127185924.03f790a8@pc> At 10:16 AM 1/27/2002 -0500, Jeff Hellige wrote: >> I similarly have an great affection for the Atari ST. The OS was all in ram and >>despite all the criticisms of TOS and the underlying GEM , it was a pretty >>remarkable system for it's time. Just too bad it had the 4meg limitation and >>that the Tramiels were in charge. > > Is Jack still alive? I've often wondered who did a worse job running their respective companies...he or Irving Gould at Commodore. From Fortune magazine, in 1998: http://www.digiserve.com/eescape/atari/articles/Survival-and-Starting-Over.html "Today Tramiel is basically retired and managing his money. From four residences, he's cut down to one, a palatial house atop a foothill in Monte Sereno, Calif." So he may still be around. Switchboard.com only found five Tramiel in CA but no Jack, and I don't remember his sons' names at the moment, but he had two (?) working at Atari back in the day. Now, is Gould still alive? - John From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Jan 27 19:13:34 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: StorageTek drive Message-ID: I just picked up a *really cool* 9 track StorageTek drive on Saturday (thanks Jon!). I'm having trouble trying to find docs for one to indicate possible diagnostic routine #'s (I've entered all 256 combinations, and not observed too much interesting). The model number seems to be something like this (assuming it has a real model #): 4000002383-4 Also, does anyone have a QBus PERTEC card they would be willing to part with? Or, does anyone know of a source for an ISA or PCI card that is supported under some sane OS (Winders or Linux preferred)? -- Pat From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Jan 27 19:29:25 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Here's a pretty good explanation of the IEC types I found: > > http://www.powercords.co.uk/iec320.htm Nice chart, I've got to remember that one. I wonder if the IEC data sheets are available somewhere free or at a fair price? I wish I could find a chart or list more like that for twist-lock connectors. The connector used on the cord for the main power supply in my 4D/210S is the third connector listed on that page: "IEC 320 standard sheets 19 & 20 describe a connector rated at 16A/250 (20A in North America) It is rated at 65oC and permits detachable power connections for higher power products." -Toth From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jan 27 19:44:47 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020127185924.03f790a8@pc> References: <3C533FB6.28229.9001F77@localhost> <3C533517.640A1D@jetnet.ab.ca> <3C533FB6.28229.9001F77@localhost> <5.0.0.25.0.20020127185924.03f790a8@pc> Message-ID: >Now, is Gould still alive? I know that at the time of the Commodore liquidation, plenty of Amiga users looked at both he and Ali as being two of the bigger crooks in history and would've liked to have seen them both dead! Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From bwit at pobox.com Sun Jan 27 19:42:17 2002 From: bwit at pobox.com (Bob Withers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) Message-ID: <200201280140.g0S1eqZ21743@host100.apollohosting.com> >in Monte Sereno, Calif." So he may still be around. Switchboard.com >only found five Tramiel in CA but no Jack, and I don't remember >his sons' names at the moment, but One was Sam I believe. Regards, Bob > >Now, is Gould still alive? > >- John > > From dogas at bellsouth.net Sun Jan 27 19:37:41 2002 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Request for Review ... References: <20020127044210.39681.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003401c1a79c$612cfe80$d5881442@DOMAIN> From: Ethan Dicks > > > The C3 was kinda cool - my experience up to that point was PETs and > TRS-80s, etc. It was wild to see a box with multiple CPUs that you > selected depending on what you were going to do. One was a 6502, > and I expect one of the others was either an 8080 or Z80, but I never > did get to see under the hood. > C3's are cool. I have two of them, among other OSIi. ;) One, a C3-SI with a C2D dual 8" floppy system using the 530 board (I think) which has the z80, 6800, and 6502 all on board. I wish I could find the OSI 460Z board (and additional backplane? ANYBODY??) that adds the Intersil 6100 and some other microprocessor too to the base 3 of the C3. (If they had just jammed the CDP1802 in there too I could have prossibly settled on this one machine to collect...those bastards...) My other C3 is a C3C12 business unit with a 23 meg HD, a 555 network board untested still because I don't have a rack for it. Wish my next door neighbor had one of these systems too, it'd be cool to see two of 'em networked.. Anyway, this and other machines of mine may soon be available for scheduled visits at your own location. Stay tuned.... ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Jan 27 19:42:30 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk's message of "Sun, 27 Jan 2002 19:32:51 +0000 (GMT)" References: Message-ID: <200201280142.g0S1gUv28640@daemonweed.reanimators.org> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > I think I've managed to find at least one genuine HP thinkjet stand. But > you're right, most people made their own (out of plastic sheet and metal > rod, normally). We were on a budget, and we did a lot of printing on our HP 3000s, so there was a near-constant stream of available empty boxes. Sometimes we'd even get paper in boxes with sturdy tops that could be easily fashioned into Thinkjet stands. > I doubt that wall wart [1] (it's that little HP 8V 3VA unit) could supply > the printer continuously. Which means that on long print jobs the battery > pack is running down, even if the charger is plugged in. Which, in turn, > means there's a maximum length of file you can print on the HPIL thinkjet > :-(. No, it means you run the battery down and then are disappointed to find that plugging it in doesn't bring it back to life right away. Nobody ever reported that, but like I said most of our users just didn't bother with the printer. > I must say I've been very impressed with the HP82169 HPIL-HPIB interface. > It's pretty much plug-n-play for most applications :-)). Imagine a Portable Plus sitting there formatting an HP 7963 (I think) HP-IB disc drive through one of these. It will do it, and then it will let you use the whopping 20MB or so that its version of MS-DOS can handle. -Frank McConnell From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sun Jan 27 20:15:41 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: HP87XM References: <3C52F907.17911.4AC4FB6@localhost> Message-ID: <006201c1a7a1$c05d5580$ec2ecd18@Smith.earthlink.net> > > You need to use drives following the AMIGO protocol. Here are the possibilities: > > IIRC, if you get the "Extended Mass Storage ROM", you can then talk to > CS-80 disk drives. I have heard that these exist -- I think the ROM number is 00085-15013 -- but I've never been able to find one. Anyone have or ever seen one of these? -W From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Jan 27 20:19:31 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <3C533517.640A1D@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > Once long ago I had a IBM-2310 Disk storage unit ( single drive ). > Nothing like 250+ LB floppy capacity drive running off of 240 VAC. > With a 500,000 16 bit word capacity per removable media many aps > never used a file sytem but just wrote directly to the disk. 2311, perhaps? A cool drive, in many aspects. It is a quite early design (1965). I have one of these, but no media (anyone have one? I think it is called a 2316), and it will remain quite braindead, as I do not have the 2841 control unit. The 2311 does almost nothing - very little electronics in the box, other than the read/write amplifiers. Almost everything is in the control unit, including the power supplies. The coolest thing about 2311s is the method used to drive the heads - it is hydraulic. These drives are full of oil lines, a little pump, and even a little cup to catch the leaks. Do you have any parts or information about this drive left? I would be very interested, as I would like to get the thing at least spinning some day. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jan 27 20:56:14 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: HP87XM In-Reply-To: <006201c1a7a1$c05d5580$ec2ecd18@Smith.earthlink.net> References: <3C52F907.17911.4AC4FB6@localhost> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020127215614.007cae00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:15 PM 1/27/02 -0800, you wrote: >> > You need to use drives following the AMIGO protocol. Here are the possibilities: >> >> IIRC, if you get the "Extended Mass Storage ROM", you can then talk to >> CS-80 disk drives. > >I have heard that these exist -- I think the ROM number is 00085-15013 -- Hey! Carefull there. That's the number for a HP 85 ROM. It wouldn't work in your 87. AFIK all the HP 86 and 87 ROMs all have a 00087-xxxxx part number. but I've never been able to find one. Anyone have or ever >seen one of these? I had one I'm not sure that it's still around. I'm pretty sure that I still have the manual for it but it only has two commands and at least one is the exact same as the standard 87 command except with the EMS ROM now allows the command to work with CS-80 drives instead of only Amigo drives. Joe > >-W > > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jan 27 20:55:20 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: TRS-80 manuals online Message-ID: I haven't seen this mentioned here before so for those of you interested in the TRS-80 manuals, someone has put a bunch of them online in PDF format at the following address: http://www2.asub.arknet.edu/wade/hardware.htm Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jan 27 16:50:05 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) References: Message-ID: <3C54841D.AB902790@jetnet.ab.ca> William Donzelli wrote: > > > Once long ago I had a IBM-2310 Disk storage unit ( single drive ). > > Nothing like 250+ LB floppy capacity drive running off of 240 VAC. > > With a 500,000 16 bit word capacity per removable media many aps > > never used a file sytem but just wrote directly to the disk. > > 2311, perhaps? A cool drive, in many aspects. It is a quite early design > (1965). I have one of these, but no media (anyone have one? I think it is > called a 2316), and it will remain quite braindead, as I do not have the > 2841 control unit. The 2311 does almost nothing - very little electronics > in the box, other than the read/write amplifiers. Almost everything is > in the control unit, including the power supplies. > > The coolest thing about 2311s is the method used to drive the heads - it > is hydraulic. These drives are full of oil lines, a little pump, and even > a little cup to catch the leaks. > > Do you have any parts or information about this drive left? I would be > very interested, as I would like to get the thing at least spinning some day. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org All I have from that IBM stuff is the book 'Programing the IBM 1130' by J.K. Hughes. What I do remember is that the logic sure used a lot of one-shots and delay lines. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From mrbill at mrbill.net Sun Jan 27 21:13:55 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: SGI R3K Indigo parts available Message-ID: <20020128031355.GI15972@mrbill.net> (they wwere released in '91, so they meet the ten-year rule..) I've got a metric buttload of SGI Indigo R3K RAM (4meg and 2meg modules), framebuffers (LG1 8bit) and five actual *systems* for sale/trade/etc. I've also got ten 3.5" drive sleds for R3k/ R4K Indigos. Email me if interested. Sorry, but I'm out of keyboards and mice. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From vaxman at earthlink.net Sun Jan 27 21:14:58 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Looking for DEC pedestal case parts... Message-ID: I got a uPDP-11 today, but the white front cover and the brown front panel bezel (the thing that says micro pdp-11), and the foot are all broken... Anybody got spares? Name your price... Clint From jss at subatomix.com Sun Jan 27 21:53:35 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Looking for DEC pedestal case parts... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020127215220.X17837-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Sun, 27 Jan 2002, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > I got a uPDP-11 today, but the white front cover and the brown front > panel bezel (the thing that says micro pdp-11), and the foot are all > broken... Mine is in that situation also. I would also be interested in a replacement source. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Jan 27 21:26:05 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <3C54841D.AB902790@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > All I have from that IBM stuff is the book 'Programing the IBM 1130' > by J.K. Hughes. What I do remember is that the logic sure used a lot > of one-shots and delay lines. That is probably just the stuff in the drive itself. The real brain, the 2841, was (yes, probably sadly "was") a complicated microcoded box that latched onto a channel, controlled a number of drives and drums, and could run diagnostics offline. Apparently 1130 systems could use 2311s with a control unit located as a feature of the 1131. Must have been a big feature...or maybe IBM cheapened the control unit with said one-shots, delay lines, and other kludges, in order to cram it into the processor. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sun Jan 27 21:35:16 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: REALLY Re: Mastersport 386SX Message-ID: <20020128033738.YBPQ6699.imf02bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Douglas Taylor > It turns out I have two Zenith Data Systems 'SuperSport' labtops, one is an > 8088 model and the other is a 80386/SX 16 (I think), the last one is called > a 'SuperSport SX'. They use the same external power supply, 16.5 VDC 2.5 > amps. Well, the laptop is marked "11 VDC" but the connector is odd -- looks similar to an S-video connector. The unit doesn't belong to me and I've only seen it once, so it might not be exactly the same as S-video. Glen 0/0 From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jan 27 21:40:57 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: IBM 5362 Update In-Reply-To: IBM 5362 Update (Colin Eby) References: <20020127224830.50977.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15444.51273.443991.214273@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 27, Colin Eby wrote: > More information will be forthcoming, sometime next > weekend -- probably whether anyone cares or not. I I care! I plan to get a System36 someday. Got any pics up yet? -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jan 27 21:42:24 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > I doubt that wall wart [1] (it's that little HP 8V 3VA unit) could supply > the printer continuously. Which means that on long print jobs the battery > pack is running down, even if the charger is plugged in. Which, in turn, > means there's a maximum length of file you can print on the HPIL thinkjet > :-(. OR a maximum speed of printing. Would Windoze95 be slow enough to give it time to recharge between lines or between pages? Or would we have to run Win95 on a 386 to be slow enough? From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jan 27 22:10:05 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: Re: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards (Tony Duell) References: <15444.39875.463964.115462@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15444.53021.544600.151873@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 28, Tony Duell wrote: > I am going to assume that the 'scope addresses the printer (it doesn't > require the printer to be set to Listen Always mode) and that it doesn't > do anything too exotic (actually, I don't think the Thinkjet does > anything that strange). OK.... > > Set the DIP switch on the interface so that the leftmost switch is down > (this sets it to 'translator' mode) and set a suitable HPIB address on > the other switches (there's a table on the bottom of the 82169 if you get > confused :-). Connect the Thinkjet to the 82169 with a couple of HPIL > cables. Connect the HPIB cable to the other side of the 82169. Connect > power to everything. > > Now configure the scope to expect a printer at an address 1 more than you > set on the DIP switches (the _interface's_ address is set by the DIP > switches -- that is to say that's the address you send commands to to > configure the 82169. The HPIL peripherals are assigned subsequent addresses). > > Try printing something. If you're lucky it'll work... I gave it a shot...I can't find any way to tell the scope what address to use for the printer. When I tell it to print, it says " No listeners - Transmission Aborted". I assume this means it can't directly address an arbitrary HPIB device, only something set to "listen only"? This is the only time I've used HPIB and had things not "just work". :) I can set the scope to talk only, listen only, or talk/listen. In talk/listen mode it allows me to set its HPIB address, but not in the other modes. Any suggestions? Thanks, -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jan 27 18:26:42 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) References: Message-ID: <3C549AC2.93750292@jetnet.ab.ca> William Donzelli wrote: > > > All I have from that IBM stuff is the book 'Programing the IBM 1130' > > by J.K. Hughes. What I do remember is that the logic sure used a lot > > of one-shots and delay lines. > > That is probably just the stuff in the drive itself. The real brain, the > 2841, was (yes, probably sadly "was") a complicated microcoded box that > latched onto a channel, controlled a number of drives and drums, and > could run diagnostics offline. > > Apparently 1130 systems could use 2311s with a control unit located as a > feature of the 1131. Must have been a big feature...or maybe IBM > cheapened the control unit with said one-shots, delay lines, and other > kludges, in order to cram it into the processor. I don't think cheap was the problem, overkill was. That was a complex drive for fast control. Also too was the fact this was big $$$ equipment so they had no reason make really simple but rather built to last. There really is not that much on the IBM-1130 on the web. That is too bad as for its time it was a very nice machine. A read somewhere too the IBM-1130 was also microcoded too. A quick search on the web. Wow more than when I checked a year ago. http://people.mn.mediaone.net/bigoak/fs/ibm1130.htm A working IBM-1130. http://www.shubs.net/1130/ basic info http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/vs-ibm-1130.html more history. > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Jan 27 22:55:46 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <3C549AC2.93750292@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > I don't think cheap was the problem, overkill was. That was a complex > drive for fast control. Also too was the fact this was big $$$ > equipment so they had no reason make really simple but rather built > to last. What I meant was that the control for a 2311 in an 1131 is the cheap kludge - one shots, delays, and the like - when compared to the "real" controller, the 2841. This control unit was very complex - probably more so that an entire 1130 system. I have no real engineering data (Big Blue Binders) on the 2841, but it actually would not suprise me is the 1131 or 1800 was the processor inside (or maybe a modified version). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jan 27 19:07:06 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) References: Message-ID: <3C54A43A.CCAAF63D@jetnet.ab.ca> William Donzelli wrote: > What I meant was that the control for a 2311 in an 1131 is the cheap > kludge - one shots, delays, and the like - when compared to the "real" > controller, the 2841. This control unit was very complex - probably more > so that an entire 1130 system. Since when are one-shots are a problem, they have there place. Thinking back more; most timing was asynchronous that needed a lot set/reset flip flops and delay buffers to keep things in sync. It is tricks to save a gate or two that is the problem. > I have no real engineering data (Big Blue Binders) on the 2841, but it > actually would not suprise me is the 1131 or 1800 was the processor inside > (or maybe a modified version). I suspect a hard code sequencer. > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jan 27 23:02:54 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: Re: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) (William Donzelli) References: <3C549AC2.93750292@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <15444.56190.134232.676665@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 27, William Donzelli wrote: > What I meant was that the control for a 2311 in an 1131 is the cheap > kludge - one shots, delays, and the like - when compared to the "real" > controller, the 2841. This control unit was very complex - probably more > so that an entire 1130 system. > > I have no real engineering data (Big Blue Binders) on the 2841, but it > actually would not suprise me is the 1131 or 1800 was the processor inside > (or maybe a modified version). While we're on the subject of IBM big iron, does anyone here know offhand what type of interface and protocol the 3290 plasma display terminal speaks? Also, does anyone know the part number of a keyboard that will work with it? Thanks, -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jan 27 22:44:38 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: <20020128004827.80595.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004c01c1a7c8$0021d6c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I didnt' test it or tax it in any way. I just wrote down everyone else's complaints and added to that the one that I had, nameley that it wouldn't do the columns the way the salesman had sworn (not that anyone other than the boss believed it). It was a claim that has caused me to look askance at any editor that made the claim that it could do column editing, since that's not very well defined. I've yet to see an editor that could, with simple commands edit a page laid out in two columns such that it didn't mess up the right column when a word was deleted or added. (It just occurs to me that I've never tied this on a Mac or Windows.) It's clearly not a trivial thing to do. see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 5:48 PM Subject: Re: Bell & Howell Apple II update > > --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > > BTW, that MASS-11 was claimed to work on the PC in the same way as it > > worked under VMS, but it didn't... > > I wrote: > > > Even the accountants still used MASS-11 for wordprocessing and > > > VAX MAIL for e-mail, even though they had a PC... > > I didn't mean to suggest that we used MASS-11 on the PC - we only used > it on the 11/750. It was a dog, but since we had daisy-wheel printers, > the output was quite acceptable. We mostly wrote sales letters and > end-user documentation with it anyway, well within its abilities. > The assertion, true or not, that it worked the same on VMS and DOS was why it was present on 20 or so microVaxes and 150 or so PC's on that project. After giving MASS-11 one try, I went back to using Wordstar. When my hardware work was moved to a different facility some months later, they were still tring to make some software tool do what MASS-11 couldn't, namely edit in separate columns under DOS or VMS. It became an interesting challenge, and one fellow thought he could do it with a database application. I tried to edit the original source with a task-specific 'C' program that parsed out the two corresponding entries, since there was, purportedly, distinctive punctuation that identified each block for each column. Unfortunately, I never got that in place either, and my parser fell apart completely once the punctuation scheme was violated. It was, in retrospect, quite comical. Here we had about 60 people trying to do this, and, in the end, we (they) still did it all by hand, which was what one consultant had predicted, when the task was started, would be the easiest solution. I guess there is reason to give them the big bucks. > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jan 28 00:44:12 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update References: Message-ID: <004d01c1a7c8$004c9040$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> See below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 3:54 PM Subject: Re: Bell & Howell Apple II update > > The discussion was about microcomputers and, specifically, the video connector > > on the Apple ][. When the Apple ][ came out, cable TV was not yet a common > > No it is not. You are darn good at subtly changing the terms of an > argument and thus proving your point to be correct. > That was not my intent at any point since it really doesn't matter whether I prove my point or not. However, it's possible I misunderstood what the point was. If that's the case, I certainly apologize. > > This discussion is about connectors that were used for composite video at > the approximate time of the Apple ][. Not whether or not the Apple ][ > (itself) ever used that connector. > That's certainly not disputable. One needs merely to look. I certainly didn't perceive THAT to be central to the discussion. I certainly inferred from the reference to the Apple ][ and from allusions to various other related details, that it was video signal of that era's microcomputers that were at the heart of the discussion, and not the more general field of television signals. > > Nobody is disputing that the external video connector on an Apple ][ is > an RCA phono socket. > There seemed, initially, to be some doubt about whether the BNC's were used on/with video signal from microcomputers of that time, however. > > > reality (That changed rapidly in the early '80's, but, in '77-'78, was not yet > > the case.) Video in this context, did not include notions like the VCR and > > set-top boxes, nor did it include other sorts of equipment that most folks > > outside the TV production industry had not even yet seen, simply because it > > At the time of the Apple ][, few people owned any video equipment other > than a TV set. Maybe a VCR, but if so, then it was connected to the TV > set via the aerial socket (the VCR had an internal modulator). Most home > TVs, at least the ones sold in the UK, did not have composite video input > sockets, or similar. > The Honeywell VTR I had back then (1977) used the UHF connectors, IIRC. I never used it, though I did use the camera that came with it from time to time, though not for any of the obvious purposes. I doubt I'd even seen a VCR at that time, and if I did, it was probably a Beta type, normally found in "component" groups rather than an integrated VHS unit as we have come to know and love. > > [As an aside, the first home VCR sold in the UK didn't have a composite > video input or output either. It had an audio input/output socket (a 5 > pin DIN) and a video output (separate luma and chroma), also a DIN > socket, for use with a specially-modified TV. The optional video camera > included a modulator and connected to the aerial input. ] > > Also at the time of the Apple ][ there were no special > microcomputer monitors. > Which is exactly the reason folks went out looking for "something that would work" yet not break the bank. The TV hardware that sported BNC connectors was generally out of reach for use in the microcomputer market. Since microcomputer graphics hardware of the time wasn't able to make full utilization of an NTSC monitor, it made little sense to buy a monitor for that purpose that was in the "high-end" market, and that's where the then somewhat rapidly evolving repertoire using the more modern connection hardware was to be found. Things are different now, of course. > > So if you wanted to display the output of an Apple ][ you had 2 main > choices. Either get an RF modulator, connect it to the header plug inside > the Apple (which carried power and composite video) and plug the other > end into the aerial socket of a TV. > What I remember was that the modulator was tuned to channel 3 and, since that was, then, scarcely used, it could be received by the TV tuner without much help. I also remember seeing commercial 75-ohm RG-59 (coax) cables that had an RCA plug at one end and a PL-259 at the other, and, in fact, still have one. > > The other was to link up a standard composite video (mono, or NTSC > colour) monitor. One used for CCTV applications, or security, or.... It's > the connector on those monitors that this discussion seems to be about. > > I will happily agree that one popular connector on such monitors was the > 'UHF' (PL259, SO239) connector. But another was most definitely the 75 > ohm BNC. > I've never seen in the flesh or in catalogs of various sorts, monitors for low-end (costing as much as or less than an equivalent TV set) video equipment that had BNC connectors on it. I do recall that some of the "component" monitors from Hitachi, SONY and others, intended for the high-end NTSC market had/have BNC's, however. The typical monitor on a microcomputer was of 9" - 12" diagonal, however, and these guys were in the 20"-27" range. No doubt there were smaller ones, but for composite displays used on a microcomputer, which I, oddly enough, concluded was what was being discussed, the connectors were either the PL/SO-259 type, or the RCA type, to wit, the LEEDEX model I still have in the original box, albeit well used, from 1978. The remaining models I have tucked away all have the SO259 on their backs, and none have BNC's. The first place in a microcomputer video application that I saw with a BNC was on a Sync-On-Green monitor attached to a CAD system of the early '80's. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sun Jan 27 22:59:33 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: HP87XM References: <3C52F907.17911.4AC4FB6@localhost> <3.0.6.32.20020127215614.007cae00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <009b01c1a7b8$a429abe0$ec2ecd18@Smith.earthlink.net> > At 06:15 PM 1/27/02 -0800, you wrote: > >> > You need to use drives following the AMIGO protocol. Here are the > possibilities: > >> > >> IIRC, if you get the "Extended Mass Storage ROM", you can then talk to > >> CS-80 disk drives. > > > >I have heard that these exist -- I think the ROM number is 00085-15013 -- > > > Hey! Carefull there. That's the number for a HP 85 ROM. It wouldn't work > in your 87. AFIK all the HP 86 and 87 ROMs all have a 00087-xxxxx part number. > Yes, that's right, I meant the 00087-15013. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 28 07:44:15 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: C3-SI In-Reply-To: <003401c1a79c$612cfe80$d5881442@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <20020128134415.71961.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike wrote: > From: Ethan Dicks > > > > > > The C3 was kinda cool... It was wild to see a box with multiple CPUs... > > C3's are cool... One, a C3-SI with a C2D dual 8" floppy system using the > 530 board (I think) which has the z80, 6800, and 6502 all on board. That's the one! We had a family friend who put himself in serious hock for one of those when it was new. I got to go over and play with it from time to time. He might have gotten it to drive one of those T-shirt printing rigs - remember those in the Malls in the late 1970s? They would take a bad picture of you and/or your family and put it on shirts, cloth calendars, etc... He loaned the whole shebang to a "Junior Achievement" post in the early-to-mid 1980s and they broke it. I lost track of him and it after that. I should see if he is a) still alive and b) if he has any parts of it in his basement. > I wish I could find the OSI 460Z board... that adds the Intersil 6100 > and some other microprocessor too to the base 3 of the C3. That sounds wicked. I wonder how they handled the 12-bit bus of the 6100. > (If they had just jammed the CDP1802 in there too I could have prossibly > settled on this one machine to collect...those bastards...) Agreed... you could have all the big stars of the 1970s micros in one cabinet. I still don't get how they managed all the different machines in one box. The easy part is building a CPU board where you can disconnect a particular CPU from the bus in software. The hard part is the handoff. You'd almost need a way to preload RAM or select a ROM that was ready to go for the next CPU you wanted to switch to. It's been so long since I've used a C3 that I forget entirely how to boot it and switch it around. Are there any manuals online? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 28 07:53:37 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Searching for old DEC 12V frontpanel bulbs Message-ID: <20020128135337.71448.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> I'm restoring some pre-TTL DEC stuff (R and W series logic) and I need a handful of front panel bulbs. Unlike the later bulbs with a plastic base and strong wires to solder to the PCB or to plug into socket pins, these are like a kernel of corn, with two fine wires coming out of the glass envelope at a slight angle with no supports of any kind. Some of the bulbs have burned-out filiaments. Many of the ones I need to replace have broken wires externally. I am going to attempt to solder new wires to the stub, but I don't expect the attempt to be an overwhelming success. I might try a harder solder so that when I put them back in the frontpanel PCB, they won't give way when I put enough heat on the other end to install them. About all I know about these bulbs is that they are fed a nominal 12VDC from the W-series driver boards. The front panel itself is literally just a PCB and a bunch of bulbs; no active circuits (unlike, say, the front panel of a PDP-8/L). Testing should be easy - feed 12VDC at a few mA to each set of fingers and check the bulbs, one by one. If DEC was underfeeding these bulbs to extend their life, I would expect that the bulb should be rated at 14V-16V. I measured slightly over 12VDC in circuit, but well within a 5% tolerance. I have checked the online manuals I could find, but no mention is made of the nature of the bulbs for 1966/1967-era DEC equipment. Any ideas? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Jan 28 07:59:38 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Schneider AG bankrupt Message-ID: <3C55675A.9756.5F2BF894@localhost> It seams like the Schneider AG, once famous maker of the CPC Series Computers (well, OEM of the Amstrad CPCs) and later on of more or less IBM compatible machines (in the beginning less later on more :) is finaly bankrupt - in an as hoc notice the company declared they will officialy stop bussines and file an 'Insolvenzantrag' today. http://lib-o-mat.feedback.de/cms-public/schneider/presse/technologies/1076.html Schneider stoped to make computers some years ago, but was still a name to know in A/V Electronic. Tey own a real lot of patents around modern Display technology, digital recording and HDTV. Especialy their relativly new Laser projection system ins unique. Well, there goes the hope to get cheap laser systems soon. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From west at tseinc.com Mon Jan 28 08:37:34 2002 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Plea for HP2100S help Message-ID: <00f101c1a809$55f9f0a0$0101a8c0@jay> A while back my HP 2000 Access TimeShare BASIC system went down due to memory problems in the IOP (a 2100S). I thought the problems were in the core boards or the XY drivers, but just yesterday noticed that the main memory controller card (Data Control, 02100-60011) was introducing parity errors into a known good set of cards. So I suspect that many of the 8K core stacks I thought were bad, really werent and it was the data control board all along. So.... I wanted to ask if any of the list members had the following: Either 1) An HP 2100A or 2100S cpu that they would be willing to sell me or 2) An HP 02100-60011 Data Control card that they would be willing to sell me While a data control board is all I really need, I would certainly entertain buying someones 2100 cpu if it's sitting on a shelf as it would be extremely helpfull to have a spare set of the cards that make up the cpu section too. After all, the cpu is pretty much useless without the data control card anyways. Of course, I'd be perfectly willing to trade as well as buy if I have something people are interested in. Thanks in advance if anyone can help! Regards, Jay West From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 28 08:55:04 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <3C54A43A.CCAAF63D@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > Since when are one-shots are a problem, they have there place. > Thinking back more; most timing was asynchronous that needed > a lot set/reset flip flops and delay buffers to keep things in sync. > It is tricks to save a gate or two that is the problem. It is not "the IBM way". Back in the 1960s and 1970s, IBM strongly tended to have everything clocked, sometimes using rather impressive circuitry. The clock generator of an S/3 is astoundingly complex, and gets around some of the uncertainty involved with one-shots and delays. > I suspect a hard code sequencer. No, it was a real microcode machine. It could run a set of complicated diagnostics on a disk, without bothering the channel. Real front panel, too. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From pat at transarc.ibm.com Mon Jan 28 09:24:44 2002 From: pat at transarc.ibm.com (Pat Barron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: WTF? (was Re: Microdata "Microprogramming Handbook") In-Reply-To: <3C543946.880DCB3F@verizon.net> Message-ID: Just as a point of information, I asked this specific question of eBay customer service (i.e., whether or not I could reject bids from snipers), and was told that as long as I clearly indicated what types of bids and/or bidders I would not accept, that this was fine. This was in June 2000; I don't know whether or not, if I asked them the same question today, I'd get the same answer. In thinking about this over the weekend, though, I realize that this policy doesn't actually do what I intended it to do (which is, to discourage bid sniping). Actually, it just moves back the "sniping deadline" by two minutes. So, I'm just going to delete that section from my Me page later on today. I still like the idea (both as a seller, and as a buyer) of just letting an auction continue as long as there are bids still coming in, so I may check out the Yahoo! auto-extend format auction (that Ian pointed me towards) for some items and see how well that works out. --Pat. From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jan 28 09:48:17 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) References: Message-ID: <002701c1a813$343ad380$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You said it! The "thing" about one-shots and delay lines is uncertainty. Synchronous logic is rigorously predictable, which one-shots are not. Delay lines, likewise, are not entirely predictable because the analog delays they present varying time intervals. This may seem to be a minor point in light of the many years during which those uncertainties were tolerated. However, as time went on, large manufacturers (not just IBM) learned that the rigor of entirely synchronous logic produced better results over the long haul than the often more clever and smaller circuitry that asynchronous logic brought with it, because with the asynchronism, the synchronous design left the uncertainty behind as well. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Donzelli" To: Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 7:55 AM Subject: Re: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) > > Since when are one-shots are a problem, they have there place. > > Thinking back more; most timing was asynchronous that needed > > a lot set/reset flip flops and delay buffers to keep things in sync. > > It is tricks to save a gate or two that is the problem. > > It is not "the IBM way". Back in the 1960s and 1970s, IBM strongly tended > to have everything clocked, sometimes using rather impressive circuitry. > The clock generator of an S/3 is astoundingly complex, and gets around > some of the uncertainty involved with one-shots and delays. > > > I suspect a hard code sequencer. > > No, it was a real microcode machine. It could run a set of complicated > diagnostics on a disk, without bothering the channel. Real front panel, too. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > > From njbv68a at prodigy.net Tue Jan 15 04:53:18 2002 From: njbv68a at prodigy.net (charles w) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: New Stuff Message-ID: <000601c19db2$d88c56e0$0badfed1@cw> mICRO ANALYST. iS THIS THE SAME UNIT THAT CAME IN A BEIGE PLASTIC CHASSIS AND CONNECTED INTO THE BUS OF THE PC ISA SLOT. dOES ANYONE HAVE SOFTWARE FOR IT. PODS? THAT THEY MIGHT WANT TO SELL? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020115/62cc0df5/attachment.html From njbv68a at prodigy.net Tue Jan 15 04:55:11 2002 From: njbv68a at prodigy.net (charles w) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: New Stuff Message-ID: <000601c19db3$1be53ec0$0badfed1@cw> Do you have all the software disks? Will they all read? Are you interested in selling any of the parts or the whole unit? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020115/836a8682/attachment.html From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 28 02:10:12 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > The discussion was about microcomputers and, specifically, the video connector > > on the Apple ][. When the Apple ][ came out, cable TV was not yet a common > > No it is not. You are darn good at subtly changing the terms of an > argument and thus proving your point to be correct. Wouldn't it be great if there were some sort of rating system for subscribers to the list? It would be nice to be able to vote on each message that gets posted. Those getting a thumbs up vote boost the score of the subscriber. Those getting a thumbs down would lower it. Newbies would start off at 0. The subscriber's score would automatically be prepended to the subject line so you could see at a glance whether a message was worth it to you to read or not. Of course there's the delete command, but a scoring system would prevent run-on threads arguing over senseless matters as promulgated over and over again by certain subscribers. Oh well, I don't think Majordomo is equipped to handle this sort of thing. I guess we're doomed to being annoyed. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From donm at cts.com Mon Jan 28 13:45:56 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sun, 27 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > The discussion was about microcomputers and, specifically, the video connector > > > on the Apple ][. When the Apple ][ came out, cable TV was not yet a common > > > > No it is not. You are darn good at subtly changing the terms of an > > argument and thus proving your point to be correct. > > Wouldn't it be great if there were some sort of rating system for > subscribers to the list? It would be nice to be able to vote on each > message that gets posted. Those getting a thumbs up vote boost the score > of the subscriber. Those getting a thumbs down would lower it. Newbies > would start off at 0. > > The subscriber's score would automatically be prepended to the subject > line so you could see at a glance whether a message was worth it to > you to read or not. One problem with that approach is that it presumes that no one new or with a low score ever will write anything worthwhile. Not altogether reasonable, I think. - don > Of course there's the delete command, but a scoring system would prevent > run-on threads arguing over senseless matters as promulgated over and over > again by certain subscribers. > > Oh well, I don't think Majordomo is equipped to handle this sort of thing. > I guess we're doomed to being annoyed. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 28 12:18:10 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord In-Reply-To: "r. 'bear' stricklin" "RE: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord" (Jan 28, 9:28) References: Message-ID: <10201281818.ZM19135@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 28, 9:28, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > I brought home a pair of SGI Onyx RealityEngine2 systems yesterday, and > had just sat down to see if I could determine how much effort it would > take to locate power cords to fit them. Then I see that Russ has done my > homework for me. Nice! One in each pocket, was it? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From classiccmp at knm.yi.org Mon Jan 28 10:43:06 2002 From: classiccmp at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord In-Reply-To: <15444.33035.714078.469285@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: Hi, > > Wonder what the dimple is for? should be able to use a standard IEC > > connector cord with heay gauge wire. Can't believe that thing is that > > big of a juice hog. Electric heaters draw about that much power. > > There are three "standard" IEC power connectors...there's the one > we're all used to, the one with the dimple (higher current) and a > larger square one (still higher current). Here in the UK they go by the canocial name "Kettle Plugs", as the higher current (15A?) version is most frequently found at the end of powercables for electric kettles (you know, those things for heating water). The name is frequenly extended to the 5A version as well (the one everyone is familiar with) Also in common usage is a "hot to cold cable" :&) I'm sure everyone here can figure that one out. -- Matt --- Web Page: http://knm.org.uk/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ From classiccmp at knm.yi.org Mon Jan 28 12:02:41 2002 From: classiccmp at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > The Aussie/OZ site that I first found info on them from calls them heater > cords, so obviously they are in common use where a removable cable is needed > on a high current device/appliance. Of course everyone has their own odd > plugs to go to the power receptacle, go figure. > > I'd really like to find an attachable (screws/solder/etc) type to put on my > own cable and I could even wire this to a disconnect/safety box on the wall > and make it doubly safe. I'm running the server with one of the 410 watt > redundant power supplies out right now as it's not need yet and saves the > curent draw from 12 amps down to 8, making the 18 AWG cable safe since I > heated ina groove with a soldering iron and then trimmed the melted flash > off t he sides of the groove. Again - commonly available here in the UK. Most mail order electronics companies here sell em I think :&) -- Matt --- Web Page: http://knm.org.uk/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ From rhblakeman at kih.net Mon Jan 28 12:43:17 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jameco has a 14/3 2.5m power cable in black for $3.95 each, part number 125541 but they use a generic pic for the illustration so I don't know that it has the notch but I can put that in if not - I just want a cable that has the cajones to handle the juice I send through it. They also have my heatsinks so it's time to cut an order - they've been faithfully sending me expensive catalogs for years and I haven't ordered from them in probably 2 of the last years. It appears that most of the US shipped/made heating devices have either a proprietary plug or are wired fixed with a restraining grommet (I know there's another name for them, I can't think of it). I even checked with an appliance dealer here - no good they didn't have aclue even after I faxed them the end view of the plug with an arrow to the notch I needed to pay special attention to -makes you feel good about the "experts in the field" whn it comes to high current appliances huh? -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Matt London Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 12:03 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > The Aussie/OZ site that I first found info on them from calls them heater > cords, so obviously they are in common use where a removable cable is needed > on a high current device/appliance. Of course everyone has their own odd > plugs to go to the power receptacle, go figure. > > I'd really like to find an attachable (screws/solder/etc) type to put on my > own cable and I could even wire this to a disconnect/safety box on the wall > and make it doubly safe. I'm running the server with one of the 410 watt > redundant power supplies out right now as it's not need yet and saves the > curent draw from 12 amps down to 8, making the 18 AWG cable safe since I > heated ina groove with a soldering iron and then trimmed the melted flash > off t he sides of the groove. Again - commonly available here in the UK. Most mail order electronics companies here sell em I think :&) -- Matt --- Web Page: http://knm.org.uk/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 28 12:27:54 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord In-Reply-To: Matt London "Re: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord" (Jan 28, 16:43) References: Message-ID: <10201281827.ZM19147@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 28, 16:43, Matt London wrote: > Here in the UK they go by the canocial name "Kettle Plugs", as the higher > current (15A?) version is most frequently found at the end of powercables > for electric kettles (you know, those things for heating water). > > The name is frequenly extended to the 5A version as well (the one everyone > is familiar with) > > Also in common usage is a "hot to cold cable" :&) I'm sure everyone here > can figure that one out. Actually the standard connector style was originally rated 6A, and has since been uprated to 10A (UK). The type with the notch was originally 10A, and the distinguishing feature is that it is rated for a higher temperature, hence it's use on kettles (in the US it is rated at a higher current as well as a higher temperature). Hence the terms "hot condition" and "cold condition". If you look through the list archives you'll find some other information about this, which various people posted last year. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rhblakeman at kih.net Mon Jan 28 11:20:50 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:15 2005 Subject: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The Aussie/OZ site that I first found info on them from calls them heater cords, so obviously they are in common use where a removable cable is needed on a high current device/appliance. Of course everyone has their own odd plugs to go to the power receptacle, go figure. I'd really like to find an attachable (screws/solder/etc) type to put on my own cable and I could even wire this to a disconnect/safety box on the wall and make it doubly safe. I'm running the server with one of the 410 watt redundant power supplies out right now as it's not need yet and saves the curent draw from 12 amps down to 8, making the 18 AWG cable safe since I heated ina groove with a soldering iron and then trimmed the melted flash off t he sides of the groove. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Matt London Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 10:43 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord Hi, > > Wonder what the dimple is for? should be able to use a standard IEC > > connector cord with heay gauge wire. Can't believe that thing is that > > big of a juice hog. Electric heaters draw about that much power. > > There are three "standard" IEC power connectors...there's the one > we're all used to, the one with the dimple (higher current) and a > larger square one (still higher current). Here in the UK they go by the canocial name "Kettle Plugs", as the higher current (15A?) version is most frequently found at the end of powercables for electric kettles (you know, those things for heating water). The name is frequenly extended to the 5A version as well (the one everyone is familiar with) Also in common usage is a "hot to cold cable" :&) I'm sure everyone here can figure that one out. -- Matt --- Web Page: http://knm.org.uk/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ From red at bears.org Mon Jan 28 14:04:06 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord In-Reply-To: <10201281818.ZM19135@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > I brought home a pair of SGI Onyx RealityEngine2 systems yesterday, and > > Nice! One in each pocket, was it? Heh, not quite. "Good morning, dad! What'cha up to? Nothing, eh? Great! Hey, I don't suppose you'd be willing to come over here with your truck..." ok r. From red at bears.org Mon Jan 28 08:28:52 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Here's a pretty good explanation of the IEC types I found: > http://www.powercords.co.uk/iec320.htm Just when I start to think this list is more trouble than it's worth, somebody sends a message with timely and relevant information. I brought home a pair of SGI Onyx RealityEngine2 systems yesterday, and had just sat down to see if I could determine how much effort it would take to locate power cords to fit them. Then I see that Russ has done my homework for me. Since this is not on topic, and the DEC types are likely to be reading this thread, I could use an RD52 or RD54 for my currently-diskless uPDP 11/73. Does anybody have one they're willing to part with? ok r. From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jan 28 10:22:36 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1C8@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Chase [mailto:vaxzilla@jarai.org] > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > Hell, *everything* I do is fast -- Winders & Linux! > [[ahem... I have a > > dual-processor Athlon MP 1600+ -- dual SCSI, dual LAN, > etc... so I realize > > this isn't a fair fight... ;-) ]] > You're not gonna impress anyone on this list with that candy-pants > quiche-eating system. You can start to get our attention by get a > computer that weighs more than you. Or barring that, we'll respect > you more if your system doesn't have floating point instructions, > or an integer divide, or even an integer multiply. Hear Hear. Though, I may listen when Athlons have casters and a respectable console firmware with "deposit" and "examine" commands, at least. Bonus points if you can't get them to run windows should your life depend on it. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From msell at ontimesupport.com Mon Jan 28 10:54:15 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1C8@cmiexch1.cmi.itds .com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020128105305.0334dc30@127.0.0.1> Additional bonus points awarded if the only boot mechanism was a 9-track tape drive that required you to disconnect your dryer as part of the boot-up process....... - Matt At 10:22 AM 1/28/2002 -0600, you wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Brian Chase [mailto:vaxzilla@jarai.org] > > > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > > Hell, *everything* I do is fast -- Winders & Linux! > > [[ahem... I have a > > > dual-processor Athlon MP 1600+ -- dual SCSI, dual LAN, > > etc... so I realize > > > this isn't a fair fight... ;-) ]] > > > You're not gonna impress anyone on this list with that candy-pants > > quiche-eating system. You can start to get our attention by get a > > computer that weighs more than you. Or barring that, we'll respect > > you more if your system doesn't have floating point instructions, > > or an integer divide, or even an integer multiply. > >Hear Hear. Though, I may listen when Athlons have casters and a >respectable console firmware with "deposit" and "examine" commands, at >least. Bonus points if you can't get them to run windows should your life >depend on it. > >Regards, > >Chris > > >Christopher Smith, Perl Developer >Amdocs - Champaign, IL > >/usr/bin/perl -e ' >print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); >' > Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Jan 28 11:38:43 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1C8@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Christopher Smith > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 11:23 AM > To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Brian Chase [mailto:vaxzilla@jarai.org] > > > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > > Hell, *everything* I do is fast -- Winders & Linux! > > [[ahem... I have a > > > dual-processor Athlon MP 1600+ -- dual SCSI, dual LAN, > > etc... so I realize > > > this isn't a fair fight... ;-) ]] > > > You're not gonna impress anyone on this list with that candy-pants > > quiche-eating system. You can start to get our attention by get a > > computer that weighs more than you. Or barring that, we'll respect > > you more if your system doesn't have floating point instructions, > > or an integer divide, or even an integer multiply. > > Hear Hear. Though, I may listen when Athlons have casters and a > respectable console firmware with "deposit" and "examine" > commands, at least. Bonus points if you can't get them to run > windows should your life depend on it. > > Regards, > > Chris > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > My Athlon may be fixin' to have casters: http://www.soldam.com/products/prism/index.html Running Windows and deposit/examine? I guess that part disqualifies me. --John From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jan 28 11:55:01 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1CF@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher Smith > Hear Hear. Though, I may listen when Athlons have casters > and a respectable console firmware with "deposit" and > "examine" commands, at least. Bonus points if you can't get > them to run windows should your life depend on it. Ehh -- I never actually had thought this may become necessary, but... Since there was a somewhat nasty response to the original post which this was in reply, I should state clearly that I'm at least half-joking ;) On the other hand, I _would_ find any system which meets the above requirements more impressive than one that does not. I'd also like to offer a sincere (and hopefully non-offensive *fingers crossed*) request to all the people on this list who've been having (occasionally personal) flame-wars recently to lighten up some. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jan 28 11:56:55 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1D0@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew Sell [mailto:msell@ontimesupport.com] > Additional bonus points awarded if the only boot mechanism > was a 9-track > tape drive that required you to disconnect your dryer as part of the > boot-up process....... Even more if it requires some manual intervention in octal before the boot process can begin. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jan 28 12:27:45 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Caster?? (was: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1D0@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: I was under the impression that casters were only for very lightweight stuff that was intended to be movable by one person without a forklift, or even a dolly. I wish that I could have a REAL computer. From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jan 28 12:46:09 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Caster?? (was: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) References: Message-ID: <3C559C71.C1D9E8A5@internet1.net> I was under the impression that big systems usually had casters. Don't the big Vax's have wheels? Vax 6000, 7000, and 8000 series? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > I was under the impression that casters were only for very lightweight > stuff that was intended to be movable by one person without a forklift, or > even a dolly. > > I wish that I could have a REAL computer. From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jan 28 12:55:12 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Caster?? (was: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: Re: Caster?? (was: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) (Chad Fernandez) References: <3C559C71.C1D9E8A5@internet1.net> Message-ID: <15445.40592.984015.277822@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 28, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I was under the impression that big systems usually had casters. Don't > the big Vax's have wheels? Vax 6000, 7000, and 8000 series? They certainly do. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 28 12:55:47 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Caster?? (was: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <3C559C71.C1D9E8A5@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20020128185547.55995.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com> --- Chad Fernandez wrote: > I was under the impression that big systems usually had casters. Don't > the big Vax's have wheels? Vax 6000, 7000, and 8000 series? That's what I remember - casters plus levelling pegs so they didn't roll when you wanted them to stay put! > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > > I was under the impression that casters were only for very lightweight > > stuff that was intended to be movable by one person without a forklift, > > or even a dolly. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From msell at ontimesupport.com Mon Jan 28 12:33:45 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1D0@cmiexch1.cmi.itds .com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020128123218.0334c1a0@127.0.0.1> Oh! And don't forget - requires you to shut off other less critical electrical applicances in the house, things like "refrigerators" and "air conditioners"...... : ) Sorry, this was *way* too much fun...... - Matt At 11:56 AM 1/28/2002 -0600, you wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Matthew Sell [mailto:msell@ontimesupport.com] > > > Additional bonus points awarded if the only boot mechanism > > was a 9-track > > tape drive that required you to disconnect your dryer as part of the > > boot-up process....... > >Even more if it requires some manual intervention in octal before the >boot process can begin. :) > >Chris > > >Christopher Smith, Perl Developer >Amdocs - Champaign, IL > >/usr/bin/perl -e ' >print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); >' > Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jan 28 13:06:36 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1D9@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew Sell [mailto:msell@ontimesupport.com] > Oh! And don't forget - requires you to shut off other less critical > electrical applicances in the house, things like > "refrigerators" and "air > conditioners"...... > > : ) > > Sorry, this was *way* too much fun...... ... and even on-topic. :) How about: Your handheld electronic organizer has more RAM... There are enough light-generating components on the system to allow one to read comfortably in an otherwise dark room. You must wait until winter to run it, and open the windows to cool the room off (since you can't run the air conditioner at the same time. The boards' form factor is something on the order of a complete "large" modern desktop system. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From allain at panix.com Mon Jan 28 13:34:49 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Pertec controller References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1D9@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <001701c1a832$d9faad80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> For free. Ciprico Tapemaster Pertec tape controller. I don't know what bus it is, VME or whatever but here's a details: 6 1/2" x 12" overall 43 pads at 4mm each a 1+ inch space, then 30 pads at 0.1 inch each. Doesn't fit anything I have so it's yours for shipping. John A. From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jan 28 13:48:30 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Pertec controller In-Reply-To: Pertec controller (John Allain) References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1D9@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> <001701c1a832$d9faad80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <15445.43790.774120.524011@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 28, John Allain wrote: > Ciprico Tapemaster Pertec tape controller. > I don't know what bus it is, VME or whatever > but here's a details: > 6 1/2" x 12" overall > 43 pads at 4mm each > a 1+ inch space, then > 30 pads at 0.1 inch each. > > Doesn't fit anything I have so it's yours for shipping. FYI, this is a Multibus-I card. It was commonly used in Sun-2 systems, and some older Sun-3 systems with VME<->Multibus adapters. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Jan 28 10:34:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: IBM big iron. References: Message-ID: <3C557D78.21B39DE7@jetnet.ab.ca> William Donzelli wrote: > > > Since when are one-shots are a problem, they have there place. > > Thinking back more; most timing was asynchronous that needed > > a lot set/reset flip flops and delay buffers to keep things in sync. > > It is tricks to save a gate or two that is the problem. > > It is not "the IBM way". Back in the 1960s and 1970s, IBM strongly tended > to have everything clocked, sometimes using rather impressive circuitry. > The clock generator of an S/3 is astoundingly complex, and gets around > some of the uncertainty involved with one-shots and delays. I do remember a lot of clocks to there. One thing that they may have done is run the raw data from the drives to the main disk controller. Getting a IBM from that running if you had one could be hard because IBM had its own logic chips. They also had computer generated schematic listings too. > No, it was a real microcode machine. It could run a set of complicated > diagnostics on a disk, without bothering the channel. Real front panel, too. Likely the price of the CPU to. The IBM 1130 was meant still as cards in/ cards out system. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jan 28 10:35:00 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update II Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1CC@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> It's working guys. Thanks a lot for all of your help. In the interest of public information: The BNC connectors do, indeed, carry composite video. These (at least the model I have) contain a "kill switch" in the little add-on that's bolted to the back of the machine. In order to get power to the internal power supply, you must have the switch depressed -- or the "cover lock" bolt in the locked position. Thanks again guys. Err -- anybody know a good way to run some diagnostics on the machine? :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jan 28 12:31:31 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update II In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1CC@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > It's working guys. Thanks a lot for all of your help. > In the interest of public information: > The BNC connectors do, indeed, carry composite video. Can THIS finally put to rest the assertion that BNCs were not used for video?? From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 28 04:33:25 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > It's working guys. Thanks a lot for all of your help. > > In the interest of public information: > > The BNC connectors do, indeed, carry composite video. > > Can THIS finally put to rest the assertion that BNCs were not used for > video?? I skipped over this thread because I saw Richard's name all over it, but had I know this is what the argument was about, I could have pointed to maybe 3 or 4 S-100 machines circa the late 1970's in my collection that use BNC for video. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From allain at panix.com Mon Jan 28 13:55:34 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update II References: Message-ID: <008d01c1a835$bfd317a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I could have pointed to maybe 3 or 4 S-100 machines > circa the late 1970's in my collection that use BNC for video. Just in the interest of sanity, how many used the fatter screw-on UHF type? John A. From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jan 28 13:15:39 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update II Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1DB@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] > On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > It's working guys. Thanks a lot for all of your help. > > In the interest of public information: > > The BNC connectors do, indeed, carry composite video. > Can THIS finally put to rest the assertion that BNCs were not used for > video?? Well, you don't have to convince me. ;) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From dpeschel at eskimo.com Mon Jan 28 13:21:18 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update II In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1CC@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>; from csmith@amdocs.com on Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 10:35:00AM -0600 References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1CC@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <20020128112117.A11910@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 10:35:00AM -0600, Christopher Smith wrote: > It's working guys. Thanks a lot for all of your help. > > In the interest of public information: > > The BNC connectors do, indeed, carry composite video. > > These (at least the model I have) contain a "kill switch" in the little add-on that's bolted to the back of the machine. In order to get power to the internal power supply, you must have the switch depressed -- or the "cover lock" bolt in the locked position. > > Thanks again guys. > > Err -- anybody know a good way to run some diagnostics on the machine? :) If it's a //e, hold down the closed (solid) Apple key and press Ctrl-Reset. (If you see a screen that alternates between solid white and black, you have an unenhanced //e with 64K of memory. If you see a screen with random large colored pixels, you have an enhanced //e with 128K of memory.) If it's a ][ or ][+, find a diagnostic program on disk -- there are no built-in diagnostics. If things are mostly working, you could use BASIC to do some simple diagnostics (test the keyboard, game paddles, graphics, etc.) -- Derek From wlewis at mailbag.com Mon Jan 28 10:40:24 2002 From: wlewis at mailbag.com (wlewis@mailbag.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Wanted: DEC Lisp PAK Message-ID: <200201281640.g0SGeOX16170@mailbag.com> Oh, I've spoken to the good folks at Encompass and Montagar. (No-one directly at Compaq has ever replied to my emails.) There is apparently an Intellectual property issue that prevents them from including the old DEC Lisp in the free list. It also has to do with the fact that DEC stopped shipping the product in 1993. Hence, I'm trying to see if I can find someone with the old piece of paper so that I could convince Compaq to let me transfer the license to me. I'm just a nut who would like to legally run some antique software. As for faking the license, I don't know of anyway to hack out the PAK system... > William, > > Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ and the list of products your > problem? - Indeed, I cannot see LISP there, but they won't want you to > fake a license in order to make the software run, will they? ;-) > > Did you talk to them and mention that several other programming > languages are part of the hobbyist program? > > Andreas > > William Barnett-Lewis wrote: > > > > Longshot, but someone here might have one or know where to find one. (snip) > - -- > Andreas Freiherr > Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany > http://www.vishay.com William -- You better watch out What you wish for; It better be worth it So much to die for. Courtney Love From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Mon Jan 28 13:23:15 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Wanted: DEC Lisp PAK References: <200201281640.g0SGeOX16170@mailbag.com> Message-ID: <3C55A523.F7F489CE@Vishay.com> Well, license management uses a special logical name table (LMF$LICENSE_TABLE), so if you are familiar with expanding logical names and defining new ones, you may find a way to have a license for any given product name that has the same properties as a license for another product, for which you have a printed PAK. You will never be able to do this directly from DCL because there is no DEFINE/KERNEL_MODE command/option. There are VMS versions where you can cause a SHOW LICENSE command to come back with a $STATUS of 12 (%SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=...) just by defining an entry to the LMF logical name table, so I think this may be considered the inside part of LMF => nothing to play with while there are other users on the same node / cluster... (harmless demonstration: try DEF/TAB=LMF$LICENSE_TABLE LMF$TEST HUGO and then SHOW LICENSE, it ACCVIOs on my 7.1-2; DEAS/TAB=LMF$LICENSE_TABLE LMF$TEST to restore original behaviour - if somebody from COMPAQ is listening: this is due to the missing underscore character, it is probably not really worth an SPR? :-) Faking a license by fiddling with this name table may make a license appear to exist for the EXE$LOOKUP_LICENSE and EXE$GRANT_LICENSE routines, but you will not have a record for this license in your license database file, so you'll need to do the trick each time your machine boots, and a LICENSE LIST command will never show this license - however, a SHOW LICENSE will (if it doesn't ACCVIO... ;-) (Side effect: if the installation procedure checks for availability of a license using LICENSE LIST, it will conclude you have no license, and it may abort.) I am not saying "go ahead, play with this", I am - of course - only illustrating the way it works! It wouldn't make any sense to use a fake license of this kind for production purposes of any kind anyway, but it might make it possible to run something like your LISP system for demonstration purposes. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From pb at Colorado.EDU Mon Jan 28 10:55:26 2002 From: pb at Colorado.EDU (pb@Colorado.EDU) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Old 9-track tape data Message-ID: <200201281655.g0SGtQ906770@morse.Colorado.EDU> I wonder if anyone can give me suggestions on the "best" way to get data (not all that much) off of some old 9-track tapes I have. They are all written with tar, on BSD 4.1-4.3 and BSD 2.8-2.9. If I was smart, the tapes are all written at 800 or 1600 bpi; I may not have been, and one or more may be at 6250 (?) bpi. I would be delighted to hear two types of offers: (1) someone in the Denver area who has the proper hardware and software, and to whom I can bring the tapes and some other medium (1.4/2.8 meg floppy; 100 meg zip) and extract the files; (2) someone with the proper hardware and software who would be willing for me to ship them the tapes, and make the data (tar files) available to me via ftp. I would certainly entertain other reasonable possibilities, as well. Thanks in advance. (This must not be a terribly uncommon "problem," right?) PB Schechter From aek at spies.com Mon Jan 28 10:59:16 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Plea for HP2100S help Message-ID: <200201281659.IAA12180@spies.com> I'll check the boards from Sam in the next day or so. I've also sent a msg to Crisis to see if they have 2000 firmware for the MX From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Jan 28 11:13:46 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Is this a IBM RT mouse? Message-ID: In a message dated 1/26/2002 7:28:44 PM Central Standard Time, Innfogra@aol.com writes: > Someone mentioned the RT mouse has two round buttons. I have had this mouse > in my collection and have been wondering what it was for. > > Http://members.aol.com/innfogra/IBMMS1.JPG > > Yup, that's it! Anyone claimed it yet? I'd like it for my RT. I think, therefore I am dangerous -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020128/987d2909/attachment.html From dogas at bellsouth.net Mon Jan 28 11:15:42 2002 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: C3-SI References: <20020128134415.71961.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003801c1a81f$6c1088c0$3719d7d1@DOMAIN> From: Ethan Dicks > > > > > The C3 was kinda cool... It was wild to see a box with multiple CPUs... > > > > C3's are cool... One, a C3-SI with a C2D dual 8" floppy system using the > > 530 board (I think) which has the z80, 6800, and 6502 all on board. D'oh. That's a 510 board, not a 530 > > That's the one! We had a family friend who put himself in serious hock > for one of those when it was new. me too, and for a used one. ;) > > I wish I could find the OSI 460Z board... that adds the Intersil 6100 > > and some other microprocessor too to the base 3 of the C3. > > That sounds wicked. I wonder how they handled the 12-bit bus of the > 6100. pins 19-22 on the standard OSI bus = A16 - A19 for extended addressing under the 6502 (multiuser and under software control of the PIA) and probably used natively under the 6100... > > (If they had just jammed the CDP1802 in there too I could have prossibly > > settled on this one machine to collect...those bastards...) > > Agreed... you could have all the big stars of the 1970s micros in one > cabinet. I still don't get how they managed all the different machines > in one box. The easy part is building a CPU board where you can disconnect > a particular CPU from the bus in software. The hard part is the handoff. > You'd almost need a way to preload RAM or select a ROM that was ready to > go for the next CPU you wanted to switch to. It's been so long since I've > used a C3 that I forget entirely how to boot it and switch it around. Are It boots under one processor (hardware selected) usually 6502 on a reset Software processor selects happens with a PIA port . Both the 6502 and 6800 reset and drop into their monitors, the z-80 just jumps to whatever address is preloaded at address 0 so it could be somewhat used as a slave processor without changes. the 6800 and 6502 could too but you did have to hack in some relocatable RAM that responded to the PIA controlled processor shifts... > there any manuals online? Haven't looked. Got two shelves full of dealer, software, and hardware docs on OSI models 400 - C8P. So someday maybe when the time fairy leaves some days under my pillow... until then, just ask. ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 28 12:44:45 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: C3-SI In-Reply-To: <003801c1a81f$6c1088c0$3719d7d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <20020128184445.60598.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike wrote: > From: Ethan Dicks > > > > > > > > The C3 was kinda cool... It was wild to see a box with multiple > > > > CPUs... > > That sounds wicked. I wonder how they handled the 12-bit bus of the > > 6100. > > pins 19-22 on the standard OSI bus = A16 - A19 for extended addressing > under the 6502 (multiuser and under software control of the PIA) and > probably used natively under the 6100... The 6100 has a 12-bit address bus (and presumably 3 bits of address extension - EMA bits, as they are called on the PDP-8) *and* a 12-bit data bus. _That's_ the one I was wondering about. For the address stuff, externally, you can pretend that it has a 15-bit address bus, and you won't have too many gyrations to perform. Where to stash the extra 50% of data when you are sharing a box with a bunch of 8-bit processors is the question. I suppose you could design a buffer that performs two memory transactions, one for D0-D7 and one for D8-D11, and write into a 64KB address space, but personally, I'd rather design in the room for it. If the 6100 card had its own RAM, but you only permitted 8-bit I/O transfers, that could resolve the problem, presuming you didn't have to have shared RAM for the handoff scheme... Dropping a 6100 onto a 16-bit bus could be easier, presuming there that you didn't have to support 16-bit I/O. Again, limiting it to 8-bits might be the easy way to go. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From dogas at bellsouth.net Mon Jan 28 13:28:31 2002 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: C3-SI References: <20020128184445.60598.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000d01c1a831$f9f08d40$acdb3fd0@DOMAIN> From: Ethan Dicks > > > > That sounds wicked. I wonder how they handled the 12-bit bus of the > > > 6100. > > > > pins 19-22 on the standard OSI bus = A16 - A19 for extended addressing > > under the 6502 (multiuser and under software control of the PIA) and > > probably used natively under the 6100... > > The 6100 has a 12-bit address bus (and presumably 3 bits of address > extension - EMA bits, as they are called on the PDP-8) *and* a 12-bit > data bus. _That's_ the one I was wondering about. For the address > stuff, externally, you can pretend that it has a 15-bit address bus, > and you won't have too many gyrations to perform. Where to stash the > extra 50% of data when you are sharing a box with a bunch of 8-bit > processors is the question. > > I suppose you could design a buffer that performs two memory transactions, > one for D0-D7 and one for D8-D11, and write into a 64KB address space, > but personally, I'd rather design in the room for it. If the 6100 > card had its own RAM, but you only permitted 8-bit I/O transfers, that > could resolve the problem, presuming you didn't have to have shared RAM > for the handoff scheme... > OSI bus is 12bit address and data. Pins 13 -16 = D8 - D11, but I don't know anythng about the EMA bits or RAM use under the 6100. I'll look through what I have. From dogas at bellsouth.net Mon Jan 28 13:32:15 2002 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: C3-SI References: <001301c1a832$6045e8b0$acdb3fd0@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <002301c1a832$8222bb70$acdb3fd0@DOMAIN> > > OSI bus is 12bit address and data. > > err... 20bit address, 12bit data... > > ;) > - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From oliv555 at arrl.net Mon Jan 28 11:30:25 2002 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Looking for DEC pedestal case parts... References: <20020127215220.X17837-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3C558AB0.3A706A24@arrl.net> "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > > On Sun, 27 Jan 2002, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > > I got a uPDP-11 today, but the white front cover and the brown front > > panel bezel (the thing that says micro pdp-11), and the foot are all > > broken... > > Mine is in that situation also. I would also be interested in a > replacement source. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@subatomix.com Ditto. I have the front (white) cover, but I am missing the faceplate/badge. My boxen is a uVax but at this point Any faceplate would do. From gknight at emugaming.com Mon Jan 28 12:10:03 2002 From: gknight at emugaming.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: TEST References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E075@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <007a01c1a827$031fef60$0d03a8c0@amigans> TEST From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jan 28 12:26:38 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1D2@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Another weekend project of mine has been working on a VT131 terminal. The terminal seems to work fine when receiving data. The terminal always powers up with a "4" in the corner (keyboard error?). Typing characters on the keyboard will give no response from either the terminal, or the system to which it's connected. The lights flash (all at once), and the speaker beeps when power is applied to the terminal. No lights are ever activated afterwards, though. Having taken apart the keyboard, it does have an empty socket for a DIP. Anyone know what this is? Is it possible that this is a "lookalike" keyboard? Did DEC make different models for different VT100 terminals -- were they compatible? If this is an authentic DEC keyboard, will it be marked as such somewhere? If so, how? The key layout _looks_ like VT100, but... The reason I'm asking about the brand is that there was another terminal at the junk yard, completely trashed, which looked like a VT100, but had a completely different branding. I forget the brand right off, but I'm afraid I may have picked up the keyboard for the dead terminal, and that it may not be compatible at all. Failing a way to positively identify the keyboard, are there any common modes of failure along these lines? Also, I'm guessing at this point that the terminal is in good shape. Does anyone know where to get a keyboard? Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 28 12:53:35 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1D2@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <20020128185335.27626.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> --- Christopher Smith wrote: > Another weekend project of mine has been working on a VT131 > terminal. The terminal seems to work fine when receiving data. > > The terminal always powers up with a "4" in the corner > (keyboard error?). Keyboard error. It's _possible_ the keyboard error is in the VT131, but not as likely as in the keyboard. If you have a VT100 or VT101, VT105, etc., you could test that keyboard in another terminal; but if you just have the VT131 as your sole example of DEC keyboards, that's a bit of a problem. > Having taken apart the keyboard, it does have an empty socket for > a DIP. Anyone know what this is? Have no idea. Never disassembled one. > Is it possible that this is a "lookalike" keyboard? Did DEC make > different models for different VT100 terminals -- were they > compatible? If this is an authentic DEC keyboard, will it be > marked as such somewhere? If so, how? If the label hasn't fallen off, ISTR that there was a paper sticker with the Digital logo and some numbers on the bottom. It's possible, if you can't find a vendor description anywhere, that you picked up a keyboard for another terminal. Lots of folks used 1/4" jacks for keyboards in those days, even Apple (on the Lisa). > The key layout _looks_ like VT100, but... If it's a DEC keyboard, it should be compatible. I am not aware of any major changes in keyboards, save VT100 vs LK201 and the like (different protocol, I presume; different appearance, different connector, etc.) > The reason I'm asking about the brand is that there was another > terminal at the junk yard, completely trashed, which looked like > a VT100, but had a completely different branding. I forget the > brand right off, but I'm afraid I may have picked up the keyboard > for the dead terminal, and that it may not be compatible at all. AFAIK, even though the plugs may be the same, they were not compatible across vendors. > Failing a way to positively identify the keyboard, are there any > common modes of failure along these lines? Dead chip in the keyboard, usually. We never fixed them when I used VT100s on a daily basis. We threw them into a box in the back room and grabbed a different (working) one from stock. The fact that we were shrinking on an annual basis meant that we never had to buy a terminal again after we hit our peak in 1984. > Also, I'm guessing at this point that the terminal is in good shape. > Does anyone know where to get a keyboard? Off of a good terminal? I presume that you could find a VT100 from a 3rd party vendor. Don't know what they sell for these days. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jan 28 13:35:16 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1DD@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com] > Keyboard error. It's _possible_ the keyboard error is in the VT131, > but not as likely as in the keyboard. If you have a VT100 or VT101, That was my thought... > VT105, etc., you could test that keyboard in another terminal; but if > you just have the VT131 as your sole example of DEC keyboards, that's > a bit of a problem. This is actually the only one I've ever met. I have seen pictures and layout diagrams, though, and it _looks_ (IE the keys are the same) like a VT100 keyboard. On the other hand, that other terminal _looked_ (The case, etc, was nearly identical) like a VT100... > If the label hasn't fallen off, ISTR that there was a paper sticker > with the Digital logo and some numbers on the bottom. Fallen off, or not there in the first place. :/ > It's possible, if you can't find a vendor description anywhere, that > you picked up a keyboard for another terminal. Lots of folks > used 1/4" > jacks for keyboards in those days, even Apple (on the Lisa). Yes, but again, it's not the jack that makes it look the same -- it really does look like (at least a carbon copy of) a VT100 keyboard. See my comment above about the other terminal, though. It certainly isn't a Lisa keyboard. I have both the working machine, and a not-so-working machine, each with the keyboard. Anyway, the apple markings would give it away... > If it's a DEC keyboard, it should be compatible. I am not aware of > any major changes in keyboards, save VT100 vs LK201 and the like > (different protocol, I presume; different appearance, > different connector, > etc.) Yep. :) That's what I thought, anyway... So I'm assuming for now the keyboard is bad, or incompatible. Perhaps I could modify it either way, given the schematics for the keyboard... > > Failing a way to positively identify the keyboard, are there any > > common modes of failure along these lines? > Dead chip in the keyboard, usually. We never fixed them when I used > VT100s on a daily basis. We threw them into a box in the > back room and > grabbed a different (working) one from stock. The fact that we were > shrinking on an annual basis meant that we never had to buy a terminal > again after we hit our peak in 1984. Do you know anything about the type/location on the board of this chip? > Off of a good terminal? I presume that you could find a VT100 from a > 3rd party vendor. Don't know what they sell for these days. Hmm.. VT100 keyboard schematics, anyone? :) I'd really like to make this into a console for my PDP-11. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From rmeenaks at olf.com Mon Jan 28 12:28:46 2002 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Not really 10 years - but a classic anyway Message-ID: <3C55985E.3DB2E353@olf.com> Hi, I picked up a VFX1 virtual reality headset from ebay at a killer price. Now the problem with the VFX1 is that the interface card is limited to only 640x480x256 colors, whereas the VFX1 helmet can run in 16bit or truecolor. To get stereoscopic mode, the VFX1 uses interlaced video to send even lines to one LCD and odd lines to the other LCD. What would it take to tap the VGA output and somehow determine which lines are even and which lines are odd and feed it to the helment directly? This is similar to the way a TV works. Searching though the net yielding the following hack: http://www.lpc.ufri.br/~dmendes/new_page_1.htm (use altavista to translate from Portugese) But he feeds the same signal to both LCDs thus stereo is lost. Any comments? Tony?? Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jan 28 12:51:40 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Caster?? (was: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1D5@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] > I was under the impression that casters were only for very lightweight > stuff that was intended to be movable by one person without a > forklift, or > even a dolly. You're right. That should have been "at least" casters. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From brian at quarterbyte.com Mon Jan 28 13:58:22 2002 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Searching for old DEC 12V frontpanel bulbs Message-ID: <3C553CDE.13997.229EE7EA@localhost> Check out Chicago Miniature Lamp. They seem to be one of the only remaining manufacturers of tiny incandescent lamps. http://www.sli-lighting.com/cml/index.cfm I've found it hard to find distributors who'll sell fewer than 100 lamps, though. Brian =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =-=-=- _| _| _| Brian Knittel / Quarterbyte Systems, Inc. _| _| _| Tel: 1-510-559-7930 Fax: 1-510-525- 6889 _| _| _| Email: brian@quarterbyte.com _| _| _| http://www.quarterbyte.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jan 28 12:47:37 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Searching for old DEC 12V frontpanel bulbs In-Reply-To: <20020128135337.71448.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020128134737.007caa40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Ethan, I have some bulbs left over from my days at Burroughs that fit that general description. Can you measure the current on one of your's? Also can you post a pictue so that we know exactly what you're looking for? Joe At 05:53 AM 1/28/02 -0800, you wrote: > >I'm restoring some pre-TTL DEC stuff (R and W series logic) and I need >a handful of front panel bulbs. Unlike the later bulbs with a plastic >base and strong wires to solder to the PCB or to plug into socket pins, >these are like a kernel of corn, with two fine wires coming out of the >glass envelope at a slight angle with no supports of any kind. > >Some of the bulbs have burned-out filiaments. Many of the ones I need >to replace have broken wires externally. I am going to attempt to >solder new wires to the stub, but I don't expect the attempt to be an >overwhelming success. I might try a harder solder so that when I put >them back in the frontpanel PCB, they won't give way when I put enough >heat on the other end to install them. > >About all I know about these bulbs is that they are fed a nominal 12VDC >from the W-series driver boards. The front panel itself is literally just >a PCB and a bunch of bulbs; no active circuits (unlike, say, the front >panel of a PDP-8/L). Testing should be easy - feed 12VDC at a few mA >to each set of fingers and check the bulbs, one by one. > >If DEC was underfeeding these bulbs to extend their life, I would expect >that the bulb should be rated at 14V-16V. I measured slightly over 12VDC >in circuit, but well within a 5% tolerance. > >I have checked the online manuals I could find, but no mention is made >of the nature of the bulbs for 1966/1967-era DEC equipment. Any ideas? > >-ethan > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! >http://auctions.yahoo.com > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jan 28 14:11:08 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: What's an Intel Series 90? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020128151108.007beae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> above. It looks like some kind of memory system for VMS and possibly others. Joe From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 28 14:21:35 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > I'd really like to find an attachable (screws/solder/etc) type to put > on my own cable and I could even wire this to a disconnect/safety box > on the wall and make it doubly safe. I'm running the server with one > of the 410 watt redundant power supplies out right now as it's not > need yet and saves the curent draw from 12 amps down to 8, making the > 18 AWG cable safe since I heated ina groove with a soldering iron and > then trimmed the melted flash off t he sides of the groove. Actually, since these are switching supplies that are wired in parallel, pulling one power supply won't change the max current draw. Adding or removing drives and boards would change the max current draw. With two power supplies handling the load instead of three, the two just end up taking more of the distributed load. The 12A current draw I imagine is the max inrush rating, not what the unit would normally draw. HP would have come up with this rating by completely loading the system with the max boards, drives and memory that could be added, checking the inrush current draw, then adding some safety margin to that. You really should check the systems present current draw with an amp meter, however. -Toth From pcw at mesanet.com Mon Jan 28 14:28:56 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: HPIL ISA card Message-ID: Whilst rooting through a junk box looking for something else, I found this HP ISA HPIL interface card 82973-60001. Free for shipping... Peter Wallace From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jan 28 14:19:36 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update II References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1CC@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <003101c1a839$1ddfe820$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yes, they do. In fact, I just saw one carrying DC power. It was part of an adapter at the other side of which were two banana plugs. Don't ask me why. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Smith" To: Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 9:35 AM Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update II > It's working guys. Thanks a lot for all of your help. > > In the interest of public information: > > The BNC connectors do, indeed, carry composite video. > > These (at least the model I have) contain a "kill switch" in the little add-on that's bolted to the back of the machine. In order to get power to the internal power supply, you must have the switch depressed -- or the "cover lock" bolt in the locked position. > > Thanks again guys. > > Err -- anybody know a good way to run some diagnostics on the machine? :) > > Chris > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jan 28 14:31:08 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update II References: <008d01c1a835$bfd317a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <004b01c1a83a$b7ba6460$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, how about pointing to one for starters? I don't think I ever saw a video board for the S-100 that had any sort of cable termination on the distal end of their cable, if there was one, except, perhaps, for an RCA jack. The machines I owned that used something other than a dedicated monitor of which the Vector Graphics cheapie I owned for a short time is an example, generally used a serial terminal. While there were several other ways of handling the console construct, or, for that matter, the graphics display, if you wanted one, they generally were on boards that more or less required you to make the choice of connector, however, since the board was generally shipped separately from the box. If you went to the computer shop, you would definitely see cables with PL-259's at one or both ends. Of course, you could buy an adapter that went from SO-259 to BNC. I don't remember there being RCA<=>BNC cables at these computer commodity stores, though I'm sure they existed. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 12:55 PM Subject: Re: Bell & Howell Apple II update II > > I could have pointed to maybe 3 or 4 S-100 machines > > circa the late 1970's in my collection that use BNC for video. > > Just in the interest of sanity, how many used the fatter > screw-on UHF type? > > John A. > From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 28 14:35:49 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > It's working guys. Thanks a lot for all of your help. > > In the interest of public information: > > The BNC connectors do, indeed, carry composite video. > > Can THIS finally put to rest the assertion that BNCs were not used for > video?? I sure hope so. I tried to stay away this thread myself, even tho I currently own two or three composite video monitors made in the late 70s and early 80s that use BNC connectors for their inputs. My guess is that both were used, it just depended on who made the monitor. -Toth From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jan 28 12:17:29 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:16 2005 Subject: IRIS Power Series power supply questions Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1D1@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Hi everybody, In preparation for my eventual booting of the IRIS Power Series machine, I pulled the back off yesterday and inspected the power supply, etc. It appears that somebody disconnected several plugs and some screw-posts when they pulled the unit out of service (!)... Anyway, to make a long story short, I had to make several assumptions in order to get the thing back together. Here they are, and can anyone confirm or deny them? The square-ish plugs should all be plugged in to the plug they match. (I thought this one was pretty safe.) The three loose post-screws go to the three wires that were just floating around loose (coming directly (more or less) out of the twist-lok plug. These screws are labeled N~, L~, and The Earth pin on the twist-lok plug is the longer one. (made sense to me, but I can't find anything to confirm it...) The L~ probably stands "Live" or something like that (?) The N~ probably means "Negative" The positive lead on the twist-lok plug is the one that has the breaker on it. Given that logic: The L~, being positive, should be attached to the wire with the breaker in it. The wire connected to the long pin on the plug should be connected to the connector. The other wire should be connected to the only loose-screw left. There is further evidence in the way the wires were bent, which suggests that this is all correct. Has anyone see these things before, and can possibly confirm this? Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 28 14:41:50 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: IRIS Power Series power supply questions In-Reply-To: Christopher Smith "IRIS Power Series power supply questions" (Jan 28, 12:17) References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1D1@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <10201282041.ZM19313@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 28, 12:17, Christopher Smith wrote: > Hi everybody, > > In preparation for my eventual booting of the IRIS Power Series > machine, I pulled the back off yesterday and inspected the power > supply, etc. [...] > The square-ish plugs should all be plugged in to the plug they > match. (I thought this one was pretty safe.) That would be my assumption too. > The three loose post-screws go to the three wires that were just > floating around loose (coming directly (more or less) out of the > twist-lok plug. These screws are labeled N~, L~, and symbol> > > The Earth pin on the twist-lok plug is the longer one. (made sense > to me, but I can't find anything to confirm it...) > > The L~ probably stands "Live" or something like that (?) > > The N~ probably means "Negative" L is Live (or Line in the US), N is Neutral. > The positive lead on the twist-lok plug is the one that has the > breaker on it. > > Given that logic: > > The L~, being positive, should be attached to the wire with the > breaker in it. Yes. > The wire connected to the long pin on the plug should be connected > to the connector. Yes. The reasoning is that the earth connection should always be the first one made and the last one broken in normal connection/disconnection. > The other wire should be connected to the only loose-screw left. > > There is further evidence in the way the wires were bent, which > suggests that this is all correct. > > Has anyone see these things before, and can possibly confirm this? Yes. The live wire is always the one with the switch, breaker and/or fuse, unless it's a two-pole breaker (one pole for live, one for neutral) of course. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 28 14:45:24 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: IRIS Power Series power supply questions In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1D1@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > In preparation for my eventual booting of the IRIS Power Series > machine, I pulled the back off yesterday and inspected the power > supply, etc. > > It appears that somebody disconnected several plugs and some > screw-posts when they pulled the unit out of service (!)... Hopefully the supply is ok. Someone might have pulled a good supply and put a nonworking one in its place. > The square-ish plugs should all be plugged in to the plug they match. > (I thought this one was pretty safe.) Should be, I'll see what mine looks like. > The three loose post-screws go to the three wires that were just > floating around loose (coming directly (more or less) out of the > twist-lok plug. These screws are labeled N~, L~, and > > The Earth pin on the twist-lok plug is the longer one. (made sense to > me, but I can't find anything to confirm it...) I'll check mine with an ohm meter and see what is connected where. > The L~ probably stands "Live" or something like that (?) Line > The N~ probably means "Negative" Neutral > The positive lead on the twist-lok plug is the one that has the > breaker on it. Line should be breakered. > The wire connected to the long pin on the plug should be connected to > the connector. I don't remember if ground or neutral used the longer pin. > Has anyone see these things before, and can possibly confirm this? I've got three deskside single tower machines myself. If you can wait a few days, I'll pull the plates off of one and take a few digital pics. -Toth From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jan 28 15:14:42 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: IRIS Power Series power supply questions Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1E7@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com [mailto:pete@dunnington.u-net.com] > Yes. The reasoning is that the earth connection should > always be the first > one made and the last one broken in normal connection/disconnection. My assumption too. It seemed the sensible thing. > Yes. The live wire is always the one with the switch, > breaker and/or fuse, > unless it's a two-pole breaker (one pole for live, one for neutral) of > course. Only one of the three prongs is ever broken, so it's likely safe to assume that it's the positive one. Thanks. I feel somewhat better about it. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jan 28 15:16:13 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: IRIS Power Series power supply questions Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1E8@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] > I've got three deskside single tower machines myself. If you > can wait a > few days, I'll pull the plates off of one and take a few digital pics. Please do. I certainly won't be plugging it in that soon at any rate. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From rhblakeman at kih.net Mon Jan 28 14:46:48 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Caster?? (was: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: We had the term "casters" on the base unit under our three bay racks inthe AF that held approx 2800 lbs for the set of 6 between the HP 1000, 16" hard drive, HVDCpower supply, AC convertor ADC convertors, various IEEE488 test equipment (we all know how heavy HP stuff is/was before 1990) etc and as I said the parts manual from Boeing reffered to them as casters, even though they where phenolic wheels with brakses and ball bearing swivels. I think it's a generic term to refer to wheel sets that independantly swivel besides rolling (maybe in reference to an alignment term of "caster" opposite "camber"??) -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 12:28 PM To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Subject: Caster?? (was: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) I was under the impression that casters were only for very lightweight stuff that was intended to be movable by one person without a forklift, or even a dolly. I wish that I could have a REAL computer. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 28 14:57:48 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Caster?? (was: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" "Caster?? (was: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)" (Jan 28, 10:27) References: Message-ID: <10201282057.ZM19334@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 28, 10:27, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > I was under the impression that casters were only for very lightweight > stuff that was intended to be movable by one person without a forklift, or > even a dolly. York had a large Sequent machine on castors. It took eight people to move it. Nine, actually. Eight to push, and one to collect up broken castors. Leeds had an Ahmdahl which had all the cabinets on castors. I have some of the castors (the only souvenir they let me keep), and they're rated for 250kg each. They're rather bigger than the ones on the Sequent :-) Our present tape backup system, which weighs the best part of a ton, is on four castors. Actually, lots of large machines, old and new, are on castors, but they tend to have jackscrews as well. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 28 14:47:14 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help In-Reply-To: Christopher Smith "VT131 needs keyboard help" (Jan 28, 12:26) References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1D2@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <10201282047.ZM19322@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 28, 12:26, Christopher Smith wrote: > Another weekend project of mine has been working on a VT131 > terminal. The terminal seems to work fine when receiving data. > > The terminal always powers up with a "4" in the corner > (keyboard error?). Typing characters on the keyboard will give > no response from either the terminal, or the system to which > it's connected. The lights flash (all at once), and the speaker > beeps when power is applied to the terminal. No lights are ever > activated afterwards, though. > > Having taken apart the keyboard, it does have an empty socket for > a DIP. Anyone know what this is? I gave away my VT131 a few weeks ago so I don't know :-( > Is it possible that this is a "lookalike" keyboard? Did DEC make > different models for different VT100 terminals -- were they > compatible? If this is an authentic DEC keyboard, will it be > marked as such somewhere? If so, how? > > The key layout _looks_ like VT100, but... The keyboard is the same as that for a VT100. There are more setup options, but the only significant difference is that the sticker on the underside has more places to record them :-) My VT131 actually had a VT101 keyboard. > The reason I'm asking about the brand is that there was another > terminal at the junk yard, completely trashed, which looked like > a VT100, but had a completely different branding. I forget the > brand right off, but I'm afraid I may have picked up the keyboard > for the dead terminal, and that it may not be compatible at all. Maybe a Plessey terminal? I had two which looked just like a VT100 from the outside, but had different (Plessey-made) logic inside, and incompatible keyboards. > Failing a way to positively identify the keyboard, are there any > common modes of failure along these lines? > > Also, I'm guessing at this point that the terminal is in good shape. > Does anyone know where to get a keyboard? I vaguely remember something like a flashing "4" in the top corner of my VT131 if the keyboard wasn't connected. Maybe not exactly that, but something of the sort. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jan 28 15:20:23 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1E9@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com [mailto:pete@dunnington.u-net.com] > > The reason I'm asking about the brand is that there was another > > terminal at the junk yard, completely trashed, which looked like > > a VT100, but had a completely different branding. I forget the > > brand right off, but I'm afraid I may have picked up the keyboard > > for the dead terminal, and that it may not be compatible at all. > Maybe a Plessey terminal? I had two which looked just like a > VT100 from > the outside, but had different (Plessey-made) logic inside, and > incompatible keyboards. Possibly -- I don't remember the branding right off. The problem, though, is that this is the only vt100-looking keyboard they have. :/ So if it's not the right one, (my current assumption until I figure out something else), then I'm at a loss as to where to find one. > I vaguely remember something like a flashing "4" in the top > corner of my > VT131 if the keyboard wasn't connected. Maybe not exactly that, but > something of the sort. Mine does that too -- the same flashing 4 I get when the keyboard _is_ plugged in. :) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jan 28 14:48:35 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update II Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1E3@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christopher Smith" > > The BNC connectors do, indeed, carry composite video. > Yes, they do. In fact, I just saw one carrying DC power. It > was part of an > adapter at the other side of which were two banana plugs. > Don't ask me why. Well, I've taken a guess at what you're replying to... Let me know if I'm way off. :) I was referring to these specific BNC connectors on the Apple II. It's interesting, though, that someone would use BNC to carry power. On the other hand, there are some points where the huge variety of plugs available (which carry the same signal) is ridiculous. Sometimes I think the world would be better off using, for instance, banana plugs, for everything. (Don't cross the wires! -- unless you really mean it.) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 28 14:49:17 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Not really 10 years - but a classic anyway In-Reply-To: Ram Meenakshisundaram "Not really 10 years - but a classic anyway" (Jan 28, 13:28) References: <3C55985E.3DB2E353@olf.com> Message-ID: <10201282049.ZM19329@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 28, 13:28, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > Hi, > > I picked up a VFX1 virtual reality headset from ebay at a killer price. > Now the problem with the VFX1 is that the interface card is limited to > only 640x480x256 colors, whereas the VFX1 helmet can run in 16bit or > truecolor. To get stereoscopic mode, the VFX1 uses interlaced video to > send > even lines to one LCD and odd lines to the other LCD. What would it > take to > tap the VGA output and somehow determine which lines are even and which > lines > are odd and feed it to the helment directly? This is similar to the way > a TV works. This is very similar to the way LCD shutter glasses like CrystalEyes work. Try a web search for that? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From mythtech at Mac.com Mon Jan 28 15:17:42 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: IIgs Rom 1 vs Rom 3 Message-ID: What is the difference between a Rom 1 and a Rom 3 Apple IIgs? I have 4 IIgs's sitting in my garage (law of aquisition... I wanted a IIgs for years, finally bought one, then I get 4 given to me for free!). It looks like I have two different styles (based on opening the lid and looking inside), one has a two rom chips, one has one rom chip (among other differences). I would guess they are Rom 1 and Rom 3 machines (I can tell by booting them right? the starting splash tells me? or how is it determined?). But what is the difference between a Rom 1 and a Rom 3 machine (besides a Rom 3 being newer I assume). Is one better than the other? What changes were made to the machines? (from the looks of the logic board, one of the two styles looks like it might have more ram on board... but maybe they just used a different chip and needed more of them... I don't know). Anywhere these details are listed out? I did a google seach, but didn't see anything fantastically helpful. So I am turning to the logical starting point to find this stuff out... the experts on classic computer hardware. Also, two of the four have a Ram upgrade board in it. All sockets are filled with chips, so how much Ram is that? 1mb? Or does it depend on the board and/or the chips (they are Apple branded boards). Are these upgrade boards usable in any IIgs (rom 1 or rom 3), the slot for it is in both style logic boards, so I would assume it works for both... but before I go swapping them around and frying something, I figured I would ask. TIA -chris From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Jan 28 15:27:15 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: IIgs Rom 1 vs Rom 3 Message-ID: RE: ROM1 vs ROM3. Your best bet is ask in the apple // newsgroup where you could get a correct answer very quickly. FAQs are posted there regularly as well. I think, therefore I am dangerous -- From rhblakeman at kih.net Mon Jan 28 15:29:12 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tothwolf Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 2:22 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG 110vac power cord On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > I'd really like to find an attachable (screws/solder/etc) type to put > on my own cable and I could even wire this to a disconnect/safety box > on the wall and make it doubly safe. I'm running the server with one > of the 410 watt redundant power supplies out right now as it's not > need yet and saves the curent draw from 12 amps down to 8, making the > 18 AWG cable safe since I heated ina groove with a soldering iron and > then trimmed the melted flash off t he sides of the groove. Actually, since these are switching supplies that are wired in parallel, pulling one power supply won't change the max current draw. Adding or removing drives and boards would change the max current draw. With two power supplies handling the load instead of three, the two just end up taking more of the distributed load. The 12A current draw I imagine is the max inrush rating, not what the unit would normally draw. HP would have come up with this rating by completely loading the system with the max boards, drives and memory that could be added, checking the inrush current draw, then adding some safety margin to that. You really should check the systems present current draw with an amp meter, however. -Toth I pondered that too but since I have a proper cable coming in with my heatsinks for the added Pros and 2 50 pin SCSI -I headers to an external HPDB50 SCSI-II for my Microtest 14 cd tower then within a week I'll have the thing hooked to a separately breakered circuit in the shop (instead of the living room, as much as I like it as a side table). Once it's in place I'm going to Win2k server which is why I need the SCSI adapters since the interface doesn't have updated software (discview) support for anything other than Novell and NT 3 and 4. The adapters allow me to swap it back to original if I decide to stick with NT 4 server too rather than chopping things up to make it a standadrd style cabled rack. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 28 15:46:35 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Searching for old DEC 12V frontpanel bulbs In-Reply-To: Joe "Re: Searching for old DEC 12V frontpanel bulbs" (Jan 28, 13:47) References: <3.0.6.32.20020128134737.007caa40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <10201282146.ZM19368@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> At 05:53 AM 1/28/02 -0800, Ethan wrote: > I'm restoring some pre-TTL DEC stuff (R and W series logic) and I need > a handful of front panel bulbs. Unlike the later bulbs with a plastic > base and strong wires to solder to the PCB or to plug into socket pins, > these are like a kernel of corn, with two fine wires coming out of the > glass envelope at a slight angle with no supports of any kind. Sounds like a standard T1_1/2 (about 3/16" diameter) or T1_3/4 (about 1/4" diameter) wire-ended bulb. There are still a few companies that make them. > If DEC was underfeeding these bulbs to extend their life, I would expect > that the bulb should be rated at 14V-16V. I measured slightly over 12VDC > in circuit, but well within a 5% tolerance. The Farnell catalogue lists a few that are 14V. The correct bulbs for my RL02 drives are 14V, fed from a 12V supply, as you say. > I have checked the online manuals I could find, but no mention is made > of the nature of the bulbs for 1966/1967-era DEC equipment. Any ideas? Take a look at Farnell's online catalogue, at http://uk1.farnell.com/Search/search4-frame.jhtml?_DARGS=%2Fcommon%2Fprodsearchform.jhtml and search for part number 328900. That should get a page with a small picture; click on the image to get a table showing the charcteristics of that family and a bigger picture (http://uk1.farnell.com/Search/level_5.jhtml?PRODID=37469&SKUID=35454). Part number 3159346 will show you a different make (but only 12V). At least you'll be able to see if that's the right shape/size and perhaps help find a US manufacturer or supplier if you don't want to order from the UK. BTW, if you try part number 316216 you'll find something like the bi-pin ones for your PDP-8 panel. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Mon Jan 28 15:56:05 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066320@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> > Christopher Smith wrote: > >Yep. :) That's what I thought, anyway... So I'm assuming for now the >keyboard is bad, or incompatible. Perhaps I could modify it either way, >given the schematics for the keyboard... If it helps, the VT131 manual lists the following for the print set: MP-01066 VT101 Family Field Maintenance Print Set That really is VT101 and not a typo (unless they messed up in the manual) so it looks like the VT131 is a modified VT100 series terminal. I've missed the rest of the thread ... is there a part number on the keyboard? There is a pocket service guide for the VT100 at: http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm (I've since found an original, so I can probably do a better scan at some stage). There are also two directories worth of VT100 stuff over at: http://www.mainecoon.com/classiccmp/ Antonio arcarlini@iee.org From rmeenaks at olf.com Mon Jan 28 16:16:38 2002 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Not really 10 years - but a classic anyway References: <3C55985E.3DB2E353@olf.com> <10201282049.ZM19329@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3C55CDC6.163D63E9@olf.com> Pete Turnbull wrote: > > This is very similar to the way LCD shutter glasses like CrystalEyes work. > Try a web search for that? > LCD shutter glasses (which I also have), use page flipping to show the left image on the full screen then the right image on the full screen. The LCD glasses "shutters" between the two images so that the left eye sees the left image and the right eye sees nothing (a shutter is put on the other eye) and it flips back and forth (sync'ed by the monitor). Interlaced works differently. The right image is on the even lines and the left image is on the odd lines, so the resolution of the image is cut in half.... Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Jan 28 16:16:15 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: '70s microcomputer video connectors (was Re: Bell & Howell Apple II update II) In-Reply-To: Sellam Ismail's message of "Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:33:25 +0000 (UTC)" References: Message-ID: <200201282216.g0SMGFS64390@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Sellam Ismail wrote: > I skipped over this thread because I saw Richard's name all over it, but > had I know this is what the argument was about, I could have pointed to > maybe 3 or 4 S-100 machines circa the late 1970's in my collection that > use BNC for video. Yeah. If only folks would keep the subject line in sync with what they're arguing about, scorefiles would work a whole lot better. I'm certain I've seen Processor Technology SOLs with SO-259 connectors. I think I've seen at least one with a BNC connector (and recall being surprised to find that it wasn't an adapter), but even if I have I'm not sure what this proves, SOLs and other '70s micros being purchasable as kits, and I'm sure at least some of the pre-assembled ones were owned by people of soldering skill who would change the connector if it suited them to do so. -Frank McConnell From allain at panix.com Mon Jan 28 16:45:02 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update II References: <008d01c1a835$bfd317a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <004b01c1a83a$b7ba6460$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <001301c1a84d$6c8b4820$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Well, how about pointing to one for starters? I don't think I ever saw a > etc. etc. Please, Richard. I probably should've asked the question to Sellam off list. John A. I am pointing to my nose. The outermost joint of my index finger is touching my closed mouth. My wrist is below chin level. I am making a sound. etc. etc. etc. The sound is Shhhhh. Other people in the world, you know. From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jan 28 16:27:26 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1ED@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Carlini, Antonio [mailto:Antonio.Carlini@riverstonenet.com] > That really is VT101 and not a typo (unless they > messed up in the manual) so it looks like > the VT131 is a modified VT100 series terminal. Indeed, I've been lead to believe that this was the case. I've been assuming that is correct for now. > I've missed the rest of the thread ... is there > a part number on the keyboard? No identifying marks whatsoever, that I can see. :/ > There is a pocket service guide for the VT100 at: Thanks for the links. I'll see what they can tell me. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jan 28 17:02:32 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Is this a IBM RT mouse? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > Yup, that's it! Anyone claimed it yet? I'd like it for my RT. > I think, therefore I am dangerous Well, I fired off an email asking for it Saturday, and haven't heard back. So, I hope *I* got first dibs.... Doc From bpope at wordstock.com Mon Jan 28 16:47:22 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W! Message-ID: <200201282247.RAA05617@wordstock.com> Okay, Check out: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=132714756 And then just wonder.. Cheers, BTW - the starting price was $299! From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jan 28 17:10:36 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1C8@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > Hear Hear. Though, I may listen when Athlons have casters and a > respectable console firmware with "deposit" and "examine" commands, > at least. Bonus points if you can't get them to run windows should > your life depend on it. > Does it count if you can never remember your W2k password? Seems like I have to reinstall every time i boot to Windows. Wait. *Everybody* has to do that. Doc From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Jan 28 18:07:34 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W! References: <200201282247.RAA05617@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <3C55E7C6.C818A001@ccp.com> Bryan Pope wrote: > > Okay, > > Check out: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=132714756 > > And then just wonder.. > > Cheers, > > > BTW - the starting price was $299! I paid less than that for my first VIC-20 at Monkey Wards. wonder if I could still get $340 for my first 1541 drive (laughs hysterically). I do have a bunch of them, and all the goodies too. Maybe 100 year from now they'll be worth that, but I won't be alive to see it . . . Gary Hildebrand From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 28 17:27:41 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W! In-Reply-To: <3C55E7C6.C818A001@ccp.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > Bryan Pope wrote: > > Check out: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=132714756 > > > > And then just wonder.. > > I paid less than that for my first VIC-20 at Monkey Wards. wonder if I > could still get $340 for my first 1541 drive (laughs hysterically). I > do have a bunch of them, and all the goodies too. > > Maybe 100 year from now they'll be worth that, but I won't be alive to > see it . . . Looks like it was probably a scam, ebay or the seller took it down. -Toth From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 28 16:35:14 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: <15444.53021.544600.151873@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Jan 27, 2 11:10:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1899 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020128/2c0f3d78/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 28 16:56:15 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: <004d01c1a7c8$004c9040$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jan 27, 2 11:44:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3779 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020128/a5249f5b/attachment.ksh From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Jan 28 17:36:22 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3C558C16.29129.8678DAF@localhost> Please Gods, NOOOOOOO. Can you see the arguments arising over a rating ? I miss Ward, his libertarian instincts would jump on this like a dog with a bone. Provided balance of a sort and he did know TRS80s. Mini and micro people would be all over each other. And I would be in a minus rating because of my non-industry ignorance. Then how would I get help in simple repair tasks for my collection ? Lawrence > On Sun, 27 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > The discussion was about microcomputers and, specifically, the video > > > connector on the Apple ][. When the Apple ][ came out, cable TV was not yet > > > a common > > > > No it is not. You are darn good at subtly changing the terms of an > > argument and thus proving your point to be correct. > > Wouldn't it be great if there were some sort of rating system for > subscribers to the list? It would be nice to be able to vote on each > message that gets posted. Those getting a thumbs up vote boost the score > of the subscriber. Those getting a thumbs down would lower it. Newbies > would start off at 0. > > The subscriber's score would automatically be prepended to the subject > line so you could see at a glance whether a message was worth it to > you to read or not. > > Of course there's the delete command, but a scoring system would prevent > run-on threads arguing over senseless matters as promulgated over and over > again by certain subscribers. > > Oh well, I don't think Majordomo is equipped to handle this sort of thing. > I guess we're doomed to being annoyed. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Jan 28 17:36:22 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update In-Reply-To: <004d01c1a7c8$004c9040$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3C558C16.11416.8678D69@localhost> Richard it would help immeasureably to follow the discussion if you would separate the various replies in the posts as other list-members do. Otherwise it appears as an incredible jumble including your reply. Lawrence > See below, plz. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tony Duell" > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 3:54 PM > Subject: Re: Bell & Howell Apple II update > > > > > The discussion was about microcomputers and, specifically, the video > connector > > > on the Apple ][. When the Apple ][ came out, cable TV was not yet a > common > > > > No it is not. You are darn good at subtly changing the terms of an > > argument and thus proving your point to be correct. > > > That was not my intent at any point since it really doesn't matter whether I > prove my point or not. However, it's possible I misunderstood what the point > was. If that's the case, I certainly apologize. > > This discussion is about > connectors that were used for composite video at > the approximate time of the > Apple ][. Not whether or not the Apple ][ > (itself) ever used that connector. > > That's certainly not disputable. One needs merely to look. I certainly didn't > perceive THAT to be central to the discussion. I certainly inferred from the > reference to the Apple ][ and from allusions to various other related details, > that it was video signal of that era's microcomputers that were at the heart of > the discussion, and not the more general field of television signals. > > Nobody > is disputing that the external video connector on an Apple ][ is > an RCA phono > socket. > There seemed, initially, to be some doubt about whether the BNC's were > used on/with video signal from microcomputers of that time, however. > > > > reality (That changed rapidly in the early '80's, but, in '77-'78, was not yet > > > the case.) Video in this context, did not include notions like the VCR and > > > set-top boxes, nor did it include other sorts of equipment that most folks > > > outside the TV production industry had not even yet seen, simply because it > > > At the time of the Apple ][, few people owned any video equipment other > than a > TV set. Maybe a VCR, but if so, then it was connected to the TV > set via the > aerial socket (the VCR had an internal modulator). Most home > TVs, at least the > ones sold in the UK, did not have composite video input > sockets, or similar. > > The Honeywell VTR I had back then (1977) used the UHF connectors, IIRC. I never > used it, though I did use the camera that came with it from time to time, though > not for any of the obvious purposes. I doubt I'd even seen a VCR at that time, > and if I did, it was probably a Beta type, normally found in "component" groups > rather than an integrated VHS unit as we have come to know and love. > > [As an > aside, the first home VCR sold in the UK didn't have a composite > video input > or output either. It had an audio input/output socket (a 5 > pin DIN) and a > video output (separate luma and chroma), also a DIN > socket, for use with a > specially-modified TV. The optional video camera > included a modulator and > connected to the aerial input. ] > > Also at the time of the Apple ][ there were > no special > microcomputer monitors. > Which is exactly the reason folks went > out looking for "something that would work" yet not break the bank. The TV > hardware that sported BNC connectors was generally out of reach for use in the > microcomputer market. Since microcomputer graphics hardware of the time wasn't > able to make full utilization of an NTSC monitor, it made little sense to buy a > monitor for that purpose that was in the "high-end" market, and that's where the > then somewhat rapidly evolving repertoire using the more modern connection > hardware was to be found. Things are different now, of course. > > So if you > wanted to display the output of an Apple ][ you had 2 main > choices. Either get > an RF modulator, connect it to the header plug inside > the Apple (which carried > power and composite video) and plug the other > end into the aerial socket of a > TV. > What I remember was that the modulator was tuned to channel 3 and, since > that was, then, scarcely used, it could be received by the TV tuner without much > help. I also remember seeing commercial 75-ohm RG-59 (coax) cables that had an > RCA plug at one end and a PL-259 at the other, and, in fact, still have one. > > > The other was to link up a standard composite video (mono, or NTSC > colour) > monitor. One used for CCTV applications, or security, or.... It's > the > connector on those monitors that this discussion seems to be about. > > I will > happily agree that one popular connector on such monitors was the > 'UHF' > (PL259, SO239) connector. But another was most definitely the 75 > ohm BNC. > > I've never seen in the flesh or in catalogs of various sorts, monitors for > low-end (costing as much as or less than an equivalent TV set) video equipment > that had BNC connectors on it. I do recall that some of the "component" > monitors from Hitachi, SONY and others, intended for the high-end NTSC market > had/have BNC's, however. The typical monitor on a microcomputer was of 9" - > 12" diagonal, however, and these guys were in the 20"-27" range. No doubt there > were smaller ones, but for composite displays used on a microcomputer, which I, > oddly enough, concluded was what was being discussed, the connectors were either > the PL/SO-259 type, or the RCA type, to wit, the LEEDEX model I still have in > the original box, albeit well used, from 1978. The remaining models I have > tucked away all have the SO259 on their backs, and none have BNC's. The first > place in a microcomputer video application that I saw with a BNC was on a > Sync-On-Green monitor attached to a CAD system of the early '80's. > > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 28 17:02:49 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG In-Reply-To: from "Matt London" at Jan 28, 2 04:43:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1300 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020128/21e4cd8a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 28 17:09:29 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: IRIS Power Series power supply questions In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1D1@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> from "Christopher Smith" at Jan 28, 2 12:17:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2572 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020128/26b3076a/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jan 28 17:34:34 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Is this a IBM RT mouse? In-Reply-To: Re: Is this a IBM RT mouse? (Doc) References: Message-ID: <15445.57354.34691.614094@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 28, Doc wrote: > > Yup, that's it! Anyone claimed it yet? I'd like it for my RT. > > I think, therefore I am dangerous > > Well, I fired off an email asking for it Saturday, and haven't heard > back. So, I hope *I* got first dibs.... Me too. We could all meet somewhere and fight for it. :) -Dave, grunt grunt -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Jan 28 17:36:22 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1CF@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <3C558C16.31906.8678E5E@localhost> Can't he'p m'sef. I've always considered Main-frame and mini collectors to be penis_transferral_fixated. Joke, joke joke. :^)) Wasn't William F Burroughs reference to "Steely Dan" along those lines ? The world is waiting for a band called "Big Blue" or "Big Iron". On the other hand MY TRS80 5meg HD is bigger than your XT, and my pre-Sprint Qume power supply is known to dim lights in the neighborhood. And it don't use no steenking, cheating, 220V power source. Yes, thank you, I will have another tot of that cognac. Lawrence > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Christopher Smith > > > Hear Hear. Though, I may listen when Athlons have casters > > and a respectable console firmware with "deposit" and > > "examine" commands, at least. Bonus points if you can't get > > them to run windows should your life depend on it. > > Ehh -- I never actually had thought this may become necessary, but... > > Since there was a somewhat nasty response to the original post which this was in > reply, I should state clearly that I'm at least half-joking ;) On the other > hand, I _would_ find any system which meets the above requirements more > impressive than one that does not. > > I'd also like to offer a sincere (and hopefully non-offensive *fingers crossed*) > request to all the people on this list who've been having (occasionally > personal) flame-wars recently to lighten up some. > > Regards, > > Chris > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jan 28 17:43:14 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1F4@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > Hear Hear. Though, I may listen when Athlons have casters and a > > respectable console firmware with "deposit" and "examine" commands, > > at least. Bonus points if you can't get them to run windows should > > your life depend on it. > Does it count if you can never remember your W2k password? > Seems like > I have to reinstall every time i boot to Windows. Wait. > *Everybody* has > to do that. Heh -- No, but maybe you should get extra points for pointing out the obvious, there ;) I'm pretty sure your RT counts on at least the point of having a proper system monitor, though. :) Honestly, I don't have many machines with wheels, myself.... I have two now, and a few that _should_ have wheels, but don't, which may also count... Gotta get one of those nice BA-123s for one of my MicroVAXen. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Jan 28 17:36:22 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Looking for DEC pedestal case parts... In-Reply-To: <20020127215220.X17837-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> References: Message-ID: <3C558C16.29685.8678E2C@localhost> You might try http://www.pdp8.com This was the leftovers from the Maynard DEC plant when Compaq took over. The guy that bought it was on the list for a while and moved it all to Toronto himself by about 6 or 7 U-Haul trucks and also was busy aquiring mini stuff from other sources. I see it's now based in Niagara Falls, Ontario. Don't know if the same guy still owns it. I know originally he had rented whatever he could for storage including apartments. He still seems to have a big inventory. Lawrence > On Sun, 27 Jan 2002, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > > I got a uPDP-11 today, but the white front cover and the brown front > > panel bezel (the thing that says micro pdp-11), and the foot are all > > broken... > > Mine is in that situation also. I would also be interested in a > replacement source. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@subatomix.com > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Jan 28 17:36:22 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update II In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3C558C16.19937.8678DEC@localhost> Now that that has been put to rest, didn't the Wang PC have a BNC video connector, ISTR that my peripheral-orphaned one, which was abandoned 2 moves ago had one. Lawrence > On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > > It's working guys. Thanks a lot for all of your help. > > > In the interest of public information: > > > The BNC connectors do, indeed, carry composite video. > > > > Can THIS finally put to rest the assertion that BNCs were not used for > > video?? > > I sure hope so. I tried to stay away this thread myself, even tho I > currently own two or three composite video monitors made in the late 70s > and early 80s that use BNC connectors for their inputs. My guess is that > both were used, it just depended on who made the monitor. > > -Toth > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From bpope at wordstock.com Mon Jan 28 18:01:00 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W! In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Jan 28, 02 05:27:41 pm Message-ID: <200201290001.TAA02824@wordstock.com> And thusly Tothwolf spake: > > On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > > Bryan Pope wrote: > > > Check out: > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=132714756 > > > > > > And then just wonder.. > > > > I paid less than that for my first VIC-20 at Monkey Wards. wonder if I > > could still get $340 for my first 1541 drive (laughs hysterically). I > > do have a bunch of them, and all the goodies too. > > > > Maybe 100 year from now they'll be worth that, but I won't be alive to > > see it . . . > > Looks like it was probably a scam, ebay or the seller took it down. > I am sorry!! I must have lost a character in the cut & paste... :( Add a '1' to the end... So this should work: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1327147561 Sorry 'bout that! Bryan From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 28 09:07:30 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: OT: Scoring system for messages to avoid annoying dweebs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > One problem with that approach is that it presumes that no one new or > with a low score ever will write anything worthwhile. Not altogether > reasonable, I think. Not exactly. True it's your choice whether or not to skip the message with a score of 0 (i.e. new user). But I'm sure a handful will read the message and if it's OK they'll give it a thumbs up and boost the score to positive numbers. If it's lame (i.e. uses no punctuation, has horrible spelling, offers lame information or silly flames) the votes are thumbs down and the score goes negative; the negative score is then a black flag that tells readers to beware. It could work well, but it's only an idea. Since we can't boot annoying people off the list we may as well be able to mark regular schmucks as such. Again, the primary purpose I have I have in mind for this would be to hopefully prevent long and stupid off-topic threads. For instance, this message would get negative votes for being off-topic, my score would go down, and then some people might find it preferable to ignore future messages from me based on my score ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 28 18:19:03 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W! In-Reply-To: <200201290001.TAA02824@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Bryan Pope wrote: > I am sorry!! I must have lost a character in the cut & paste... :( > Add a '1' to the end... So this should work: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1327147561 Ah, that explains it. > Sorry 'bout that! It happens... This auction still smells fishy...Either it's a ploy to bring prices on these old things up to insane amounts, or the buyer wanted a boxed VIC20 very very badly. -Toth From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Jan 28 18:43:21 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W! In-Reply-To: <3C55F8DB.B69D0F15@ccp.com> References: <200201290001.TAA02824@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020128194321.0166e1b0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Gary Hildebrand may have mentioned these words: >and somebody bought it . . . Yea, but did you see the userID of the person that ended it with "buy it now?" Judging from that, I'd wager (not a lot, mind you) that this person is not going to pay for the system, anyhow... [for those of you who didn't see the purchaser's ID: fuxor69, 0 feedback & recently signed up or changed his/her userID.] > well there are some interesting goodies, >such as the 1520 printer plotter. Want one? ;-) "Merch" -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Jan 28 19:20:27 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W! References: <200201290001.TAA02824@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <3C55F8DB.B69D0F15@ccp.com> Bryan Pope wrote: > > And thusly Tothwolf spake: > > > > On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > > > Bryan Pope wrote: > > > > Check out: > > > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=132714756 > > > > > > > > And then just wonder.. > > > > > > I paid less than that for my first VIC-20 at Monkey Wards. wonder if I > > > could still get $340 for my first 1541 drive (laughs hysterically). I > > > do have a bunch of them, and all the goodies too. > > > > > > Maybe 100 year from now they'll be worth that, but I won't be alive to > > > see it . . . > > > > Looks like it was probably a scam, ebay or the seller took it down. > > > > I am sorry!! I must have lost a character in the cut & paste... :( Add a > '1' to the end... So this should work: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1327147561 > > Sorry 'bout that! > > Bryan and somebody bought it . . . well there are some interesting goodies, such as the 1520 printer plotter. I saw one once, they are cute but not all too useful. Now if it had a 1540 drive and the original narrow carriage printer . . . . Gary Hildebrand From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 28 09:20:30 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update II In-Reply-To: <008d01c1a835$bfd317a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, John Allain wrote: > > I could have pointed to maybe 3 or 4 S-100 machines > > circa the late 1970's in my collection that use BNC for video. > > Just in the interest of sanity, how many used the fatter > screw-on UHF type? Well, the Sol-20 for one used that type of connector as a stock component. I can't think off-hand of any others that used that type. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 28 17:24:34 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update II In-Reply-To: <003101c1a839$1ddfe820$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jan 28, 2 01:19:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 446 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020128/c6765368/attachment.ksh From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Jan 28 18:18:26 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1F4@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > I'm pretty sure your RT counts on at least the point of having a > proper system monitor, though. :) Honestly, I don't have many > machines with wheels, myself.... I have two now, and a few that > _should_ have wheels, but don't, which may also count... Gotta get > one of those nice BA-123s for one of my MicroVAXen. Would that be with or without the naked woman option? -brian. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 28 18:31:41 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: Not really 10 years - but a classic anyway In-Reply-To: Ram Meenakshisundaram "Re: Not really 10 years - but a classic anyway" (Jan 28, 17:16) References: <3C55985E.3DB2E353@olf.com> <10201282049.ZM19329@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C55CDC6.163D63E9@olf.com> Message-ID: <10201290031.ZM19559@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 28, 17:16, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > > > This is very similar to the way LCD shutter glasses like CrystalEyes work. > > Try a web search for that? > > > > LCD shutter glasses (which I also have), use page flipping to show the left > image > on the full screen then the right image on the full screen. The LCD glasses > "shutters" > between the two images so that the left eye sees the left image and the right > eye sees > nothing (a shutter is put on the other eye) and it flips back and forth > (sync'ed by the monitor). > Interlaced works differently. The right image is on the even lines and the > left image is on the odd > lines, so the resolution of the image is cut in half.... That's exactly how one of the modes on SGIs with CrystalEyes shutter glasses works. Even lines are on one frame and odd lines on the next, if the image is interlaced. The shutter glasses use the vsync pulses to switch sides between frames. That's why I suggested looking for information about CrystalEyes. The difference is simply that in the shutter types, you shut out one eye on odd frames and shut out the other on even frames, while on LCD displays you display one frame (eg, the odd frame) on the left and the next frame (even) on the right. Either way, interlaced or not, it's alternate frames to alternate eyes. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 28 18:36:35 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help In-Reply-To: Christopher Smith "RE: VT131 needs keyboard help" (Jan 28, 16:27) References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1ED@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <10201290036.ZM19563@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 28, 16:27, Christopher Smith wrote: > > From: Carlini, Antonio [mailto:Antonio.Carlini@riverstonenet.com] > > > That really is VT101 and not a typo (unless they > > messed up in the manual) so it looks like > > the VT131 is a modified VT100 series terminal. > > Indeed, I've been lead to believe that this was the case. > I've been assuming that is correct for now. It is. The VT131 has additional firmware. In the meantime, I've found my VT100 manual. A flashing "4" means keyboard faulty or nort present. For completeness, "2" means a memory fault, and "8" means a data error. "6" is the logical OR of "2" and "4", etc. If only the keyboard test fails, the terminal should go online in receive-only mode (ie it's useful as a display). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From wpointon at earthlink.net Mon Jan 28 18:38:06 2002 From: wpointon at earthlink.net (bill pointon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:17 2005 Subject: OT: Scoring system for messages to avoid annoying dweebs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <75E7F3C1-1450-11D6-9C9B-003065ED7126@earthlink.net> ,,,,,,,,,;:::: -_ ....? ::::: ", ",,.,.,.,.,.,? ,.::;;;; .... ! ,,. . . . . . On Monday, January 28, 2002, at 10:07 , Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > >> One problem with that approach is that it presumes that no one new or >> with a low score ever will write anything worthwhile. Not altogether >> reasonable, I think. > > Not exactly. True it's your choice whether or not to skip the message > with a score of 0 (i.e. new user). But I'm sure a handful will read the > message and if it's OK they'll give it a thumbs up and boost the score > to > positive numbers. If it's lame (i.e. uses no punctuation, has horrible > spelling, offers lame information or silly flames) the votes are thumbs > down and the score goes negative; the negative score is then a black > flag > that tells readers to beware. > > It could work well, but it's only an idea. Since we can't boot annoying > people off the list we may as well be able to mark regular schmucks as > such. Again, the primary purpose I have I have in mind for this would > be > to hopefully prevent long and stupid off-topic threads. > > For instance, this message would get negative votes for being off-topic, > my score would go down, and then some people might find it preferable to > ignore future messages from me based on my score ;) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * > From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Jan 28 18:59:36 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tothwolf > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 19:19 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W! > > > On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Bryan Pope wrote: > > > I am sorry!! I must have lost a character in the cut & paste... :( > > Add a '1' to the end... So this should work: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1327147561 > > Ah, that explains it. > > > Sorry 'bout that! > > It happens... > > This auction still smells fishy...Either it's a ploy to bring prices on > these old things up to insane amounts, or the buyer wanted a boxed VIC20 > very very badly. > > -Toth > > I would go with very very badly. Check what this Vectrex just went for. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1324083432 And if you're interested, compare to other Vectrexs. Even in an unopened box, it went for an insane amount. --John From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 28 20:10:46 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, John Chris Wren wrote: > On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > This auction still smells fishy...Either it's a ploy to bring prices on > > these old things up to insane amounts, or the buyer wanted a boxed VIC20 > > very very badly. > > I would go with very very badly. Check what this Vectrex just went > for. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1324083432 > And if you're interested, compare to other Vectrexs. Even in an > unopened box, it went for an insane amount. Well, at least these kinds of auctions won't affect the market long-term. Once all the people with lots of cash spend it all on stuff like this, the prices will start to drop back down where they should be. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 28 19:06:07 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W! In-Reply-To: <3C55F8DB.B69D0F15@ccp.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > and somebody bought it . . . well there are some interesting goodies, > such as the 1520 printer plotter. I saw one once, they are cute but > not all too useful. Now if it had a 1540 drive and the original > narrow carriage printer . . . . I've got one of these plotters in the original Styrofoam packing stored away somewhere. The outer box was gone when I got it, as was its power supply. Speaking of which, anyone have an extra wall wart (or brick?) for one of these that they'd be willing to part with? -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 28 19:08:27 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020128194321.0166e1b0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that Gary Hildebrand may have mentioned these words: > > >and somebody bought it . . . > > Yea, but did you see the userID of the person that ended it with "buy > it now?" Judging from that, I'd wager (not a lot, mind you) that this > person is not going to pay for the system, anyhow... [for those of you > who didn't see the purchaser's ID: fuxor69, 0 feedback & recently > signed up or changed his/her userID.] I noticed that myself, smells very fishy :P Even more strange...have a look at the seller's other auctions. Not one other computer or even a high priced item in the whole list. -Toth From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Jan 28 19:53:34 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W! In-Reply-To: References: <200201290001.TAA02824@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <3C55AC3E.20613.8E52CC4@localhost> Hey, I could supply most of that. The NIB Vic-20, NIB printer/plotter, NIB 1541 plus a NIB Vic modem and a slew of manuals and SW. Maybe the thing is to be AGGressive in your merchandizing, but I smell a put-on to the whole thing. On the other hand the Apple 1 did go for $25,000 and the K-pro II did go for $499. I'm tempted to put up my A-IIc NIB LCD for $500 and see if the Silicon Valley money jumps on it. But of course, he says slyly "I still maintain the integrity of my collection" And yes, I will accept another tot of cognac. Lawrence > On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Bryan Pope wrote: > > > I am sorry!! I must have lost a character in the cut & paste... :( > > Add a '1' to the end... So this should work: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1327147561 > > Ah, that explains it. > > > Sorry 'bout that! > > It happens... > > This auction still smells fishy...Either it's a ploy to bring prices on > these old things up to insane amounts, or the buyer wanted a boxed VIC20 > very very badly. > > -Toth > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jan 28 19:24:48 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Not really 10 years - but a classic anyway In-Reply-To: <10201282049.ZM19329@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > This is very similar to the way LCD shutter glasses like CrystalEyes work. > Try a web search for that? I don't have a URL handy, but CrystalEyes was StereoGraphics, Inc. in San Rafael. Silicon Graphics was their biggest customer. From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Jan 28 19:27:33 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Passwords was: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1C8@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <3C55A625.2355.8CD5CA7@localhost> While passwords may be necessary in a business environment, they are a real pain to home-based single users or following owners. I mean, really, I'm in the middle of nowhere in northern Manitoba, in a house where I live alone with a protective dog, and only hook up to my ISP when I want to access it. Do I need this ? But even my NEXT demands a password and I had to do an extensive search to find out how to re-do the original one. But of course the holy grail of computer makers is that BIG contract. I have umpteen passwords in my life including my banks, my ISPs, E-Pay, and a multitude of others, not to mention phone numbers and other access code that I must keep track of. Do I really need more to complicate my life. I thought that that's one of the things that computers were for. To uncomplicate tasks and processes. On my computers I DON"T NEED NO STEENKING PASSWORDS. Windblows is the least of the transgressors. The UNIX type are the worst since they grew up in a security-conscious business environment. Right now after going thru a difficult Linux Red-Hat install I can't find the slip I wrote the password it insists upon, and must do a fresh install. Fuck it, I'll reformat and look at another OS. I believe that OS's or programs that don't provide non-password access should be boycotted. I have a Grid laptop that I can read the HD of, in a nonprotected same model, but not in the original, and ISTR Mike Ford had about 6 of them, now virtually worthless. Not battery dependant. Do these guys really think that passwords can protect their data if they don't have physical access protection ? We all know that even supposedly deleted files can be ressurected. This is SUIT mentality and they live in an imaginary world that they proclaim is the BOTTOM LINE, realistic view of things. As MS has learned to it's chagrin every man-made "security" feature can be end-run by some bright young hacker. Lawrence >On 28 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > > > Hear Hear. Though, I may listen when Athlons have casters and a > > respectable console firmware with "deposit" and "examine" commands, > > at least. Bonus points if you can't get them to run windows should > > your life depend on it. > > > > Does it count if you can never remember your W2k password? Seems like > I have to reinstall every time i boot to Windows. Wait. *Everybody* has > to do that. > > Doc > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jan 28 20:04:02 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Passwords was: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <3C55A625.2355.8CD5CA7@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > While passwords may be necessary in a business environment, > they are a real pain to home-based single users or following owners. It can be really annoying that the assumption is that you need to be protected from others who have physical access to your system; and that passwords would provide that protection. > I mean, really, I'm in the middle of nowhere in northern Manitoba, > in a house where I live alone with a protective dog, and only hook up http://www.xenosoft.com/dogears/idog.jpg From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 28 20:26:14 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Passwords was: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <3C55A625.2355.8CD5CA7@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Right now after going thru a difficult Linux Red-Hat install I can't find the > slip I wrote the password it insists upon, and must do a fresh install. > Fuck it, I'll reformat and look at another OS. > I believe that OS's or programs that don't provide non-password access > should be boycotted. boot: single [enter] (or, if you are using RedHat and such) init=/bin/sh [enter] # mount -w -n -o remount / # passwd # mount -r -n -o remount / # exit No computer is truly secure if someone has physical access to it. -Toth From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jan 28 19:33:23 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: '70s microcomputer video connectors (was Re: Bell & Howell Apple II update II) In-Reply-To: <200201282216.g0SMGFS64390@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On 28 Jan 2002, Frank McConnell wrote: > purchasable as kits, and I'm sure at least some of the pre-assembled > ones were owned by people of soldering skill who would change the > connector if it suited them to do so. I put an RCA on one of my TRS-80s (they use a 5 pin DIN). Actually, I was going to put a BNC on, but didn't have one handy at the moment. My soldering skills were very poor, but with practice are now just poor. From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jan 28 20:06:21 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Is this a IBM RT mouse? In-Reply-To: <15445.57354.34691.614094@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > Me too. We could all meet somewhere and fight for it. :) > > -Dave, grunt grunt OK. I vote we all rescind our requests and deed the thing to Tony. He'll have several working clones made within the week. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jan 28 20:17:50 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1F4@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > I'm pretty sure your RT counts on at least the point of having a proper > system monitor, though. :) Honestly, I don't have many machines with > wheels, myself.... I have two now, and a few that _should_ have wheels, > but don't, which may also count... Gotta get one of those nice BA-123s > for one of my MicroVAXen. Oh, I GOT wheels. I have one functioning wheeled cabinet, the 7013-550 (or -560; I can never remember which one I kept). Plus there's the VAXstation-II-in-training, several 7013 cabinets with toasted/missing planars, and a 7013-530 shell that will soon be Rascal's house. But I think that in a day or 2 I'll probably be tied for the *smallest* classic Unix box in the house. Part of this weekend's haul was an SE/30, I found an ethernet adapter today, and I went to storage this evening and dug out the 4M 30-pin SIMM stash. A/UX here I come.... Doc From rschaefe at gcfn.org Mon Jan 28 20:37:13 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG References: Message-ID: <015601c1a86f$42db7780$98469280@Y5F3Q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 06:02 PM Subject: Re: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG > One thing bothers me, though. From what I can see, the contacts in the 6A > (normal) and 10A (hot condition) connectors are the same. Same size, same > surface area. So why one type has a higher rating that the other is a > mystery. I may be able to shed some light on this subject. It appears that the grade of a recepticle (now, that _can't_ be spelled right!) is based in part on how tight the device pinches down on the prongs of the plug. Perhaps a similar rating is being applied to the cord ends? > > I've head it said that in fact both connectors are good to at least 10A, > but that the normal one is normally wired with 6A cable. But why the > _connector_ rating is determined by the cable I've not figured out. It's the cordset as a whole that's limited by the lowest rating of it's parts. Use 14 AWG and by the NEC it's limited to 15 amps, even if it had a 30 amp cord end on it. It might be possible to get IEC cord ends and roll your own with something like #12 wire. > > > Also in common usage is a "hot to cold cable" :&) I'm sure everyone here > > can figure that one out. > > Hmmm... the 10A socket (cable mounted part) is designed to fit into the > 6A plug (chassis mounted part). And obviously that should be safe. > > An adapter going the other way, to allow devices with 10A plugs to be > used with 6A cables sounds to be a rather dangerous thing... I have an adapter to hook a 20A recpt to the service drop coming from the pole... Quite handy at times. :) > > -tony Bob From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 28 20:49:22 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Hayes Micromodem II / microcoupler (was: Re: Is this a IBM RT mouse?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > Me too. We could all meet somewhere and fight for it. :) > > > > -Dave, grunt grunt > > OK. I vote we all rescind our requests and deed the thing to Tony. > He'll have several working clones made within the week. Speaking of cloning old hardware...Is anyone still looking to duplicate the Hayes Micromodem II "microcoupler" units (the external part)? I've got one I accidentally dropped and broke the cover on, and have considered going ahead and scanning the board and drawing up a schematic. Would there be any interest in it? If there is enough interest to justify the time required, I might even be willing to cad up the design of the case and pc board so that a very close replica could be produced. Now for a little history on these modems... The Hayes Micromodem II is a modem for the Apple II series made around 1982-1983. It consists of an internal board that fits in an expansion slot of an Apple II series computer and an external device with a tinted plexiglass cover called a "microcoupler". These were connected together by a 10 conductor shielded ribbon cable. Hayes designed these modems with the telephone to computer interface as a separate unit (since it had to be FCC approved) so it could then be used for future modem models. AFAIK, the Micromodem II was the only modem that actually ever made use of the microcoupler. The microcoupler only has two connectors, both on one end of the unit. One is a 10 pin (one pin removed as a key) header for the ribbon cable, the other is a RJ11 jack for a modular phone cord. -Toth From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jan 28 20:55:24 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W! In-Reply-To: from Tothwolf at "Jan 28, 2 08:10:46 pm" Message-ID: <200201290255.SAA09302@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > This auction still smells fishy...Either it's a ploy to bring prices on > > > these old things up to insane amounts, or the buyer wanted a boxed VIC20 > > > very very badly. > > > > I would go with very very badly. Check what this Vectrex just went > > for. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1324083432 > > And if you're interested, compare to other Vectrexs. Even in an > > unopened box, it went for an insane amount. > > Well, at least these kinds of auctions won't affect the market long-term. > Once all the people with lots of cash spend it all on stuff like this, the > prices will start to drop back down where they should be. Yeah, but by then all the cool stuff will be gone! -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Dihydrogen monoxide -- the leading environmental pollutant! www.dhmo.org --- From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Jan 28 20:59:48 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: OT: Scoring system for messages to avoid annoying dweebs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Quis custodiet ipsos custodes, I wonder? Cheers Benito Mussolini From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 28 21:05:51 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W! In-Reply-To: <200201290255.SAA09302@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > Well, at least these kinds of auctions won't affect the market long-term. > > Once all the people with lots of cash spend it all on stuff like this, the > > prices will start to drop back down where they should be. > > Yeah, but by then all the cool stuff will be gone! Nah, it'll be sitting in some poor guy's attic or garage :) -Toth From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jan 28 21:13:25 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Is this a IBM RT mouse? In-Reply-To: <15445.57354.34691.614094@phaduka.neurotica.com> from Dave McGuire at "Jan 28, 2 06:34:34 pm" Message-ID: <200201290313.TAA12984@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > Yup, that's it! Anyone claimed it yet? I'd like it for my RT. > > > I think, therefore I am dangerous > > Well, I fired off an email asking for it Saturday, and haven't heard > > back. So, I hope *I* got first dibs.... > Me too. We could all meet somewhere and fight for it. :) Can I put money on the fight so I can buy it from the winner? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Matter can neither be created nor destroyed, nor returned without a receipt. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jan 28 21:18:55 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: IIgs Rom 1 vs Rom 3 In-Reply-To: from Chris at "Jan 28, 2 04:17:42 pm" Message-ID: <200201290318.TAA13042@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > What is the difference between a Rom 1 and a Rom 3 Apple IIgs? Bug fixes (which affect mostly GS/OS) and I don't think ROM 01 GSes can netboot. > I would guess they are Rom 1 and Rom 3 machines (I can tell by booting > them right? the starting splash tells me? or how is it determined?). The startup screen says, yes. ROM 0 GSes don't say anything. Paging Tom Owad to verify this ... :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Windows detected a gnat farting near your computer. Press any key to reboot. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jan 28 21:29:34 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Not-so-OT point of philosophy Message-ID: <200201290329.TAA12866@stockholm.ptloma.edu> I started internal medicine rotation at the Loma Linda VA Hospital today and noted that the entire place is crawling with WinTerms (by Wyse, no less), running WinCE, connected via Citrix to a Win2K Advanced Server host. There are only a few "real" PCs there -- in fact, I think the Macs might outnumber them. Before all of you cry off-topic, doesn't it seem odd to anyone we're now full circle and back to low-power terminals connected to a "mainframe," now that corporate America has gotten off its fat client kick? Compared to the WinTerms, my old Wyse terminal looks so nice. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- If your happiness depends on anyone else, you've got a problem. -- R. Bach - From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 28 12:27:35 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W! In-Reply-To: <3C55AC3E.20613.8E52CC4@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Maybe the thing is to be AGGressive in your merchandizing, but I smell > a put-on to the whole thing. On the other hand the Apple 1 did go for > $25,000 and the K-pro II did go for $499. I'm tempted to put up my A-IIc > NIB LCD for $500 and see if the Silicon Valley money jumps on it. You're over a year too late for that. There's no more money in the Silicon Valley. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jan 28 21:36:09 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Not-so-OT point of philosophy In-Reply-To: from "Cameron Kaiser" at Jan 28, 2002 07:29:34 PM Message-ID: <200201290336.g0T3a9Y01343@shell1.aracnet.com> > I started internal medicine rotation at the Loma Linda VA Hospital today > and noted that the entire place is crawling with WinTerms (by Wyse, no less), > running WinCE, connected via Citrix to a Win2K Advanced Server host. There > are only a few "real" PCs there -- in fact, I think the Macs might outnumber > them. On a slightly related note, has anyone seen a VNC Terminal yet? I got an add for them a while back. While they're basically the same thing as a WinTerm, they strike me as being more usable as VNC is better supported than WinFrame. > Before all of you cry off-topic, doesn't it seem odd to anyone we're now > full circle and back to low-power terminals connected to a "mainframe," now > that corporate America has gotten off its fat client kick? Where I work PC's are basically used as X-Terminals that can run office apps if needed. If I understand this .NET thing (doubtful), it sounds to me like they're heading even closer to a Mainframe type style of computing. Zane From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Mon Jan 28 21:31:42 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Z-100 serial ports Message-ID: <20020129034225.WSPR15944.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Tony Duell > > 1st question -- found some info in the 2nd manual under "programming data" > > (I was looking for *hardware" data!): > > Well, I'd call it programming data. Hardware data would be the > schematics, how the signals are used, and so on... Okay, I'll grant you that bit of nomenclature ;>) I also managed to learn (God bless the Google Usenet archives!): lowest number (0E8 and 0EC) are the data ports, and the control ports are (data port + 1). > > 2661 Serial A (Printer Port) 0E8-0EB > > 2661 Serial B (Modem Port) 0EC-0EF > > Hey -- I'll bet Tony knows! > > Well, not off the top of my head I don't. But I do have a 2661 datasheet... Why am I not surprised? > OK, there are 4 8 bit locations in the chip. That's why it takes up 4 I/O > addresses. I'll give the states of the pins on the chip to access all the > internal registers, and you'll have to figure out how to use them. > Conventionally, the A0 pin on the chip is connected to the lowest address > line in the machine, and so on, but that's not definite. So you need to > find schematics, and so on. Got 'em! > > Anyway, the states are : [snip] > I am going to assume you're not going to be attempting to use synchronous > modes Correct assumption, it's asynch. You may recall that this project began after I was (unsuccessfully) attacked by virii four times during December. I want to use the Z-100 to send, retrieve, and read my email. Since my ISP doesn't provide shell accounts, I have to write code to deal with PPP and TCP/IP (also POP3 and SMTP, but those are cake), and all of this (including the OS) has to fit in 192Kb RAM. > That should get you started! > > -tony Yes, it *will* get me started -- thanks a million! Glen 0/0 From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jan 28 21:52:46 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: XDMCP for RT?; Was Re: Is this a IBM RT mouse? In-Reply-To: <200201290313.TAA12984@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > > Yup, that's it! Anyone claimed it yet? I'd like it for my RT. > > > > I think, therefore I am dangerous > > > > Well, I fired off an email asking for it Saturday, and haven't heard > > > back. So, I hope *I* got first dibs.... > > > Me too. We could all meet somewhere and fight for it. :) > > Can I put money on the fight so I can buy it from the winner? So that's 4 of us that have functional RT's but no meese, right? I have to assume you guys got keyboards, since the docs say the beast won't boot to a serial terminal. The question, since I'm pretty ignorant of X11-pre-R6, is if I install the X11 & AIXWindows packages, will the RT speak XDMCP to a Linux or NetBSD X-terminal? Or heck, even my X-Station 150? Inquiring minds gotta know. I'm not loadin all that krap without either a mouse or remote access to the AIXWindows desktop. I'm *dreaming* of 5.25" floppies. Doc From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Jan 28 21:49:49 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Hayes Micromodem II / microcoupler (was: Re: Is this a IBM RT mouse?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tothwolf > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 21:49 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Hayes Micromodem II / microcoupler (was: Re: Is this a IBM RT > mouse?) > > > On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > > On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > > > Me too. We could all meet somewhere and fight for it. :) > > > > > > -Dave, grunt grunt > > > > OK. I vote we all rescind our requests and deed the thing to Tony. > > He'll have several working clones made within the week. > > Speaking of cloning old hardware...Is anyone still looking to duplicate > the Hayes Micromodem II "microcoupler" units (the external part)? I've got > one I accidentally dropped and broke the cover on, and have considered > going ahead and scanning the board and drawing up a schematic. Would there > be any interest in it? If there is enough interest to justify the time > required, I might even be willing to cad up the design of the case and pc > board so that a very close replica could be produced. > > Now for a little history on these modems... > The Hayes Micromodem II is a modem for the Apple II series made around > 1982-1983. It consists of an internal board that fits in an expansion slot > of an Apple II series computer and an external device with a tinted > plexiglass cover called a "microcoupler". These were connected together by > a 10 conductor shielded ribbon cable. Hayes designed these modems with the > telephone to computer interface as a separate unit (since it had to be FCC > approved) so it could then be used for future modem models. AFAIK, the > Micromodem II was the only modem that actually ever made use of the > microcoupler. The microcoupler only has two connectors, both on one end of > the unit. One is a 10 pin (one pin removed as a key) header for the ribbon > cable, the other is a RJ11 jack for a modular phone cord. > > -Toth > > Working for Hayes, and knowing a little about the MM-II, what you've stated is correct. I have a friend who is a pack-rat, and *may* just have the original schematics somewhere. Let me ping him and see what that will generated. Incidently, the guy who designed the SM-300 and the SB-103 is an acquaintence of mine. Somewhere around here, I also have the schematics for the Chronograph. I've got 15 :-), 4 of which work, 11 of which are untested. --John From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Jan 28 22:00:12 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Not-so-OT point of philosophy In-Reply-To: <200201290329.TAA12866@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Cameron Kaiser > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 22:30 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Not-so-OT point of philosophy > > > I started internal medicine rotation at the Loma Linda VA Hospital today > and noted that the entire place is crawling with WinTerms (by > Wyse, no less), > running WinCE, connected via Citrix to a Win2K Advanced Server host. There > are only a few "real" PCs there -- in fact, I think the Macs > might outnumber > them. > > Before all of you cry off-topic, doesn't it seem odd to anyone we're now > full circle and back to low-power terminals connected to a > "mainframe," now > that corporate America has gotten off its fat client kick? > [snip] It's becaused system administrators have realized that in certain environments, primarily where it's not compute intensive, that the rollout and maintainence issues of full blown OSs on PCs become impractical. Centralized computing also makes sure files are backed up, everyone gets the new version at the same time, yada yada yada. There are a number of advantages in centralized computing. That's one of the reasons X-terms are so popular in some environments. Centralized computing, graphics display clients. --John From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jan 28 22:01:21 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Not-so-OT point of philosophy In-Reply-To: <200201290329.TAA12866@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Before all of you cry off-topic, doesn't it seem odd to anyone we're now > full circle and back to low-power terminals connected to a "mainframe," now > that corporate America has gotten off its fat client kick? A bunch of the Linux-heads here are heavily into the LTSP - Linux Terminal Server Project. They're actually doing some healthy commercial stuff with it. My opinion, as a relative newcomer in the field, is that the price of CPU cycles and storage vs the price of bandwidth drives that swing back & forth. With a little Security consciousness thrown in. Doc From msell at ontimesupport.com Mon Jan 28 22:11:43 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Not-so-OT point of philosophy In-Reply-To: <200201290329.TAA12866@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020128215949.03d83eb0@127.0.0.1> IMHO, it started down that road with client/server and HTML...... The only problem is, we're using an operating system made for a single user and a modest number of processes, and we've allowed Mickeysoft to turn it into a pseudo multi-user "enterprise" server platform. I've been using W2K for a little while now for my development platform, and it still sucks compared to WinNT 4. It's sad that as the computing community, we've allowed Mickeysoft to peddle this desktop "operating system" as a server platform. These are just my opinions, YMMV. For the small market I deal with, and the situations that my software is called upon, MS is an absolutely stupid choice for a server. - Matt At 07:29 PM 1/28/2002 -0800, you wrote: >I started internal medicine rotation at the Loma Linda VA Hospital today >and noted that the entire place is crawling with WinTerms (by Wyse, no less), >running WinCE, connected via Citrix to a Win2K Advanced Server host. There >are only a few "real" PCs there -- in fact, I think the Macs might outnumber >them. > >Before all of you cry off-topic, doesn't it seem odd to anyone we're now >full circle and back to low-power terminals connected to a "mainframe," now >that corporate America has gotten off its fat client kick? > >Compared to the WinTerms, my old Wyse terminal looks so nice. > >-- >----------------------------- personal page: >http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * > ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu >-- If your happiness depends on anyone else, you've got a problem. -- R. >Bach - Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 28 22:21:44 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Hayes Micromodem II / microcoupler (was: Re: Is this a IBM RT mouse?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, John Chris Wren wrote: > On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > Speaking of cloning old hardware...Is anyone still looking to duplicate > > the Hayes Micromodem II "microcoupler" units (the external part)? I've got > > one I accidentally dropped and broke the cover on, and have considered > > going ahead and scanning the board and drawing up a schematic. Would there > > be any interest in it? If there is enough interest to justify the time > > required, I might even be willing to cad up the design of the case and pc > > board so that a very close replica could be produced. > > Working for Hayes, and knowing a little about the MM-II, what you've > stated is correct. I have a friend who is a pack-rat, and *may* just > have the original schematics somewhere. Let me ping him and see what > that will generated. Incidently, the guy who designed the SM-300 and > the SB-103 is an acquaintence of mine. Wow, Thanks. The original schematics would be very useful. The MM-II board that goes into the Apple II has over one third of the board potted in an orange epoxy substance. I don't think I could ever work up the nerve to dissect one of these units :) > Somewhere around here, I also have the schematics for the Chronograph. > I've got 15 :-), 4 of which work, 11 of which are untested. A very interesting bit of hardware. I've never had a chance to see one in person, only pictures of old units. I never could figure out why Hayes designed and sold these units. Did they have a precision clock? -Toth From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 28 22:42:29 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: IBM big iron. In-Reply-To: <3C557D78.21B39DE7@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > I do remember a lot of clocks to there. One thing that they may have > done > is run the raw data from the drives to the main disk controller. Getting > a IBM from that running if you had one could be hard because IBM had its > own logic chips. They also had computer generated schematic listings > too. IBM docs really are very good and complete - probably more so than anyone else's. They are a pain in the neck to read, unless you can speak the language. The chips (SLTs) are not too bad. They can still be found on scrap IBM boards. Interfacing to them is no big deal - the characteristics are known. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 28 22:59:50 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: S/370 docs (was: Re: IBM big iron.) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > IBM docs really are very good and complete - probably more so than > anyone else's. They are a pain in the neck to read, unless you can > speak the language. > > The chips (SLTs) are not too bad. They can still be found on scrap IBM > boards. Interfacing to them is no big deal - the characteristics are > known. With all the talk of IBM systems and docs today, I remembered I had some IBM books put away. I found four 1.5" binders worth, and they all appear to be related to S/370 operations and software. If there is any interest in these, I'd be willing to scan them if I can find a place to host the resulting files. -Toth From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 28 23:03:05 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: S/370 docs (was: Re: IBM big iron.) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > With all the talk of IBM systems and docs today, I remembered I had some > IBM books put away. I found four 1.5" binders worth, and they all appear > to be related to S/370 operations and software. If there is any interest > in these, I'd be willing to scan them if I can find a place to host the > resulting files. Watch it - IBM still sells stuff like this, and might get angry. Remember, the S/370 architecture is still very much in use today. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jan 28 23:03:38 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: XDMCP for RT?; Was Re: Is this a IBM RT mouse? In-Reply-To: XDMCP for RT?; Was Re: Is this a IBM RT mouse? (Doc) References: <200201290313.TAA12984@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <15446.11562.284116.781617@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 28, Doc wrote: > > > > > Yup, that's it! Anyone claimed it yet? I'd like it for my RT. > > > > > I think, therefore I am dangerous > > > > > > Well, I fired off an email asking for it Saturday, and haven't heard > > > > back. So, I hope *I* got first dibs.... > > > > > Me too. We could all meet somewhere and fight for it. :) > > > > Can I put money on the fight so I can buy it from the winner? > > So that's 4 of us that have functional RT's but no meese, right? I > have to assume you guys got keyboards, since the docs say the beast > won't boot to a serial terminal. Yup, I have a keyboard. > The question, since I'm pretty ignorant of X11-pre-R6, is if I install > the X11 & AIXWindows packages, will the RT speak XDMCP to a Linux or > NetBSD X-terminal? Or heck, even my X-Station 150? > Inquiring minds gotta know. I'm not loadin all that krap without > either a mouse or remote access to the AIXWindows desktop. I'm > *dreaming* of 5.25" floppies. I'd be surprised if it didn't work. XDMCP has been around a while...I don't remember what release of X it made its debut in, but I was running XDMCP with X-terminals (Sun3/50s and XKernel) nearly ten years ago...RTs weren't nearly so old then. I'll be at least some useful X can be built on an RT, depending on the OS. Probably X11R4. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jan 28 23:06:27 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: HP JetDirect for Apple?? Message-ID: Who was looking for this? Toth? doc From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 28 23:17:33 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: S/370 docs (was: Re: IBM big iron.) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > Watch it - IBM still sells stuff like this, and might get angry. > Remember, the S/370 architecture is still very much in use today. Really? These seem to be ancient, and seem to have been well taken care of. I'll check them later and see what their dates were. I can't imagine them still being in print :) -Toth From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jan 28 23:19:13 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: S/370 docs (was: Re: IBM big iron.) In-Reply-To: Re: S/370 docs (was: Re: IBM big iron.) (Tothwolf) References: Message-ID: <15446.12497.644124.569712@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 28, Tothwolf wrote: > > Watch it - IBM still sells stuff like this, and might get angry. > > Remember, the S/370 architecture is still very much in use today. > > Really? These seem to be ancient, and seem to have been well taken care > of. I'll check them later and see what their dates were. I can't imagine > them still being in print :) Their current mainframe architecture is based on, and largely compatible with, the S/370 architecture. And there are a LOT of very old actual S/370s still in use. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jan 28 23:24:15 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: S/370 docs (was: Re: IBM big iron.) In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Jan 28, 2002 11:17:33 PM Message-ID: <200201290524.g0T5OGK05079@shell1.aracnet.com> > of. I'll check them later and see what their dates were. I can't imagine > them still being in print :) You might be surprised by what they still have in print. Zane From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 28 23:29:05 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: S/370 docs (was: Re: IBM big iron.) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > > > Watch it - IBM still sells stuff like this, and might get angry. > > Remember, the S/370 architecture is still very much in use today. > > Really? These seem to be ancient, and seem to have been well taken care > of. I'll check them later and see what their dates were. I can't imagine > them still being in print :) Well, here is a list of what I have. Anyone know if these are still current? If so, I don't think I'll be scanning them. IBM System/370 Principles of Operation Order No. GA22-7000-9 File No. S370-01 IBM VS COBOL for OS/VS Program Numbers 5740-CB1 (Compiler and Library) 7540-LM1 (Library Only) Order No. GC26-3857-4 File No. S370-24 IBM System/360 Operating System: Job Control Language Reference OS Release 21.7 Order No. GC28-6704-4 File No. S360-36 IBM OS Full American National Standard COBOL Compiler and Library, Version 2 Programmer's Guide Program Numbers: 360S-CB-545 360S-LM-546 Order No. GC28-6399-3 File No. S360-24 -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 28 23:33:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: S/370 docs (was: Re: IBM big iron.) In-Reply-To: <15446.12497.644124.569712@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > On January 28, Tothwolf wrote: > > > Watch it - IBM still sells stuff like this, and might get angry. > > > Remember, the S/370 architecture is still very much in use today. > > > > Really? These seem to be ancient, and seem to have been well taken care > > of. I'll check them later and see what their dates were. I can't imagine > > them still being in print :) > > Their current mainframe architecture is based on, and largely > compatible with, the S/370 architecture. And there are a LOT of very > old actual S/370s still in use. Wasn't aware of that. I'm not too familiar with IBM's larger systems. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 28 23:31:07 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: HP JetDirect for Apple?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > Who was looking for this? Toth? Nope, I've got several myself. I'd like to find some JetDirect ethernet cards tho. -Toth From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jan 28 23:53:33 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Not-so-OT point of philosophy In-Reply-To: from John Chris Wren at "Jan 28, 2 11:00:12 pm" Message-ID: <200201290553.VAA26070@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > I started internal medicine rotation at the Loma Linda VA Hospital today > > and noted that the entire place is crawling with WinTerms [...] : > > Before all of you cry off-topic, doesn't it seem odd to anyone we're now > > full circle and back to low-power terminals connected to a > > "mainframe," now that corporate America has gotten off its fat client kick? > There are a number of advantages in centralized computing. That's one of > the reasons X-terms are so popular in some environments. Centralized > computing, graphics display clients. Oh, I know. I just thought it was intriguing how wide the pendulum swings. At PLNU, up until around nine or ten years ago people preferred dummy terminals hooked up to an AIX server running WordPerfect for Unix. In fact, the idea of desktop PCs was resisted until the campus network allowed them to do the same thing over Telnet, and then they got accustomed to Word, and demanded P3s so they could have k3wl 3-D transitions in their PowerPoint, and now the pendulum is swinging the other way. There has been some talk about setting up WinTerm-like systems around there, although I stick my Mac-lovin' nose up at that idea. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- In memory of Greg Morris --------------------------------------------------- From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Jan 28 23:51:09 2002 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Shameless Plug! Message-ID: <200201282151090073.14CF7D44@192.168.42.129> Ok, I admit it's a shameless ad. I'm sending it here because I know some of you are into the older HP calculators. I've put the magnetic card reader (Can it write as well?) for an HP-41C up on Ebay. Link here if you're interested. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1327909730 Thanks for putting up with my occasional ads. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Jan 29 00:11:14 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Not-so-OT point of philosophy In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020128215949.03d83eb0@127.0.0.1> References: <200201290329.TAA12866@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <5.1.0.14.0.20020128215949.03d83eb0@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <20020129061113.GA11283@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Matthew Sell, from writings of Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 10:11:43PM -0600: > The only problem is, we're using an operating system made for a single user > and a modest number of processes, and we've allowed Mickeysoft to turn it > into a pseudo multi-user "enterprise" server platform. Hey, all of M$ is annoying, but at least Micro$oft gives us a few laughs in a perverse sort of way... > I've been using W2K for a little while now for my development platform, and Why? When did you first become aware of having a masochistic tendency to crave being abused by sadistic computer software? If only someone had found those copies of PC-World magazines hidden under your mattress in time to help you... ;-) > it still sucks compared to WinNT 4. It's sad that as the computing Which, like all of the other OS wannabees from M$, sucks when compared to UNIX, VMS, AOS/VS, MVS, MPE-IV, Accent, POS, and even CP/M. M$-DOS may have it's limited uses when it's windowing interface isn't attached; however, thinking of that as a useful OS is hypothetically able to induce usefulOSophobia in some people predisposed to various disorders preventing them from differentiating useful operating systems from computer viruses pretending to be useful operating systems. > community, we've allowed Mickeysoft to peddle this desktop "operating > system" as a server platform. Please don't included me in that "we've," since I don't use those viruses from Micro$oft. > These are just my opinions, YMMV. For the small market I deal with, and the > situations that my software is called upon, MS is an absolutely stupid > choice for a server. Isn't M$ an insipid choice for anything, except for inspiring dark humor? :-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jan 29 00:03:19 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Shameless Plug! In-Reply-To: Shameless Plug! (Bruce Lane) References: <200201282151090073.14CF7D44@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <15446.15143.685686.295877@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 28, Bruce Lane wrote: > Ok, I admit it's a shameless ad. I'm sending it here because I know some of you are into the older HP calculators. > > I've put the magnetic card reader (Can it write as well?) for an HP-41C up on Ebay. Link here if you're interested. Yes, it can indeed write cards as well. I really like these little buggers. An especially neat feature is the program translation trick they can do whilst reading HP67/HP97 program cards. :-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 28 15:28:17 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Hayes Micromodem II / microcoupler (was: Re: Is this a IBM RT mouse?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, John Chris Wren wrote: > Somewhere around here, I also have the schematics for the Chronograph. > I've got 15 :-), 4 of which work, 11 of which are untested. Damn you! You've killed the rarity of my Chronograph! :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jan 29 00:11:52 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Shameless Plug! In-Reply-To: Shameless Plug! (Bruce Lane) References: <200201282151090073.14CF7D44@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <15446.15656.541041.981198@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 28, Bruce Lane wrote: > Ok, I admit it's a shameless ad. I'm sending it here because I know some of you are into the older HP calculators. > > I've put the magnetic card reader (Can it write as well?) for an HP-41C up on Ebay. Link here if you're interested. Hey...On your other auction, the one for the transmission test set...In the leftmost rack in the background, at the top...Would that happen to be a TrueTime GPS, WWVB, or GOES time standard? I think I recognize the color and the rack handle. :) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From msell at ontimesupport.com Tue Jan 29 00:18:28 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Not-so-OT point of philosophy In-Reply-To: <20020129061113.GA11283@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020128215949.03d83eb0@127.0.0.1> <200201290329.TAA12866@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <5.1.0.14.0.20020128215949.03d83eb0@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020129001409.022f2da0@127.0.0.1> eeewwwwww......... You said all the things I *really* wanted to say.... : ) Actually - I don't read those PC-trash mags. Useless in my opinion. They all say the same thing - "Everyone needs to go out and buy the very latest from xxxxxx". I stopped reading PC Mags when Compute! stopped putting program listings in them...... You are excused from my general classification of "we". You gave a good enough reason. W2K does have a decent game of pinball..... I play it while my Linux box does the stuff I don't trust Windows to do..... : ) - Matt At 01:11 AM 1/29/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Quothe Matthew Sell, from writings of Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 10:11:43PM -0600: > > The only problem is, we're using an operating system made for a single > user > > and a modest number of processes, and we've allowed Mickeysoft to turn it > > into a pseudo multi-user "enterprise" server platform. > >Hey, all of M$ is annoying, but at least Micro$oft gives us a few >laughs in a perverse sort of way... > > > I've been using W2K for a little while now for my development platform, > and > >Why? When did you first become aware of having a masochistic tendency >to crave being abused by sadistic computer software? If only someone >had found those copies of PC-World magazines hidden under your >mattress in time to help you... ;-) > > > it still sucks compared to WinNT 4. It's sad that as the computing > >Which, like all of the other OS wannabees from M$, sucks when compared >to UNIX, VMS, AOS/VS, MVS, MPE-IV, Accent, POS, and even CP/M. M$-DOS >may have it's limited uses when it's windowing interface isn't >attached; however, thinking of that as a useful OS is hypothetically >able to induce usefulOSophobia in some people predisposed to various >disorders preventing them from differentiating useful operating >systems from computer viruses pretending to be useful operating >systems. > > > community, we've allowed Mickeysoft to peddle this desktop "operating > > system" as a server platform. > >Please don't included me in that "we've," since I don't use those >viruses from Micro$oft. > > > These are just my opinions, YMMV. For the small market I deal with, and > the > > situations that my software is called upon, MS is an absolutely stupid > > choice for a server. > >Isn't M$ an insipid choice for anything, except for inspiring dark >humor? :-) > >-- >Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: >All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & >rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify >such >http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jan 29 00:23:05 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: a VAX 11/780 in my garage ... In-Reply-To: a VAX 11/780 in my garage ... (Gunther Schadow) References: <3C563EB4.9030103@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <15446.16329.254387.639479@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 29, Gunther Schadow wrote: > I am happy to announce my new baby: thanks to Jon Auringer of > Astronautics and Merle Pierce of RICM, I have now a VAX 11/780 > in my garage. Nice cabinet, with UNIBUS extension and a TE16 > drive (looks nice but will I ever sacrifice a 25A circuit just > for it?). Oh My. I *really* like TE16 drives. They'll run on much less than a 25A circuit, though...Years ago, I ran a TE16 and a PDP11/34a with two RL01s on a 15A circuit. It was tight, but it ran. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From claudew at videotron.ca Tue Jan 29 00:48:44 2002 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:18 2005 Subject: Anyone wants a Micron Exceed for MAC Se30? Message-ID: <000d01c1a890$fe9f6320$6400a8c0@gamerclaude> Hi all While cleaning up and tossing stuff I found a Micron Exceed video card for MAC Se/30. This was gonna go into garbage...but I looked it up and saw that it could be considered rare (...) and perhaps I should not thrash it and get it to someone who can appreciate it. I am not a big ebay-er seller or buyer, so I am offering it here. Trade offers, no $. I saw these going for $60 to $500 depending on model (!!???) I am looking for SGI and SUN equip... Its model no 306-48. Searching www says its for 640 x 480 external VGA on a Se/30 also works on a IIsi (?). I have the card only, not the cable or connector for the monitor but the connector is a 6 X 2 pin common IDC connector and it would be easy to make a cable... Card is untested but it looks fine...I can send you a pic...I remember sticking it a Se30 way back and computer worked but did not test card video output... Contact me by email. Claude http://computer_collector.tripod.com From norm at docnorm.com Tue Jan 29 00:27:01 2002 From: norm at docnorm.com (Norm Aleks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: S/370 docs (was: Re: IBM big iron.) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Well, here is a list of what I have. Anyone know if these are still > current? If so, I don't think I'll be scanning them. >From the IBM Publications web site, http://www.elink.ibmlink.ibm.com/public/applications/publications/cgibin/pbi.cgi?CTY=US one of the documents you have is still in print: > IBM System/370 Principles of Operation > Order No. GA22-7000-9 The next version, GA22-7000-10, is available for purchase -- $11.25 All of the rest of your documents are listed, but unavailable for purchase. The S/360 stuff and all of the old software material is totally obsolete; no support is available on the material it covers. Now, it's true IBM still has copyright on the material, but for things they're not currently charging for they've been pretty lenient. Norm From norm at docnorm.com Tue Jan 29 00:06:59 2002 From: norm at docnorm.com (Norm Aleks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: S/370 docs (was: Re: IBM big iron.) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Toth, Brian Knittel and I would be happy to put your S/370 documents up on IBM1130.ORG. Its planned organization (i.e. the organization that is not currently showing on it) includes sections for "related systems," primarily S/360 and earlier unit record (punched card) systems. But S/370 is very cool; that'd be great. (Besides, both of us have been looking for S/370 manuals to help us understand how to administer MVS, VM, and CMS on Hercules.) If you need help scanning, I will try. I have a big backlog of things to scan, but when I start a pile it goes pretty fast (practice!). Norm Aleks On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > > > IBM docs really are very good and complete - probably more so than > > anyone else's. They are a pain in the neck to read, unless you can > > speak the language. > > > > The chips (SLTs) are not too bad. They can still be found on scrap IBM > > boards. Interfacing to them is no big deal - the characteristics are > > known. > > With all the talk of IBM systems and docs today, I remembered I had some > IBM books put away. I found four 1.5" binders worth, and they all appear > to be related to S/370 operations and software. If there is any interest > in these, I'd be willing to scan them if I can find a place to host the > resulting files. > > -Toth > > From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Tue Jan 29 00:18:28 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: a VAX 11/780 in my garage ... Message-ID: <3C563EB4.9030103@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi I am happy to announce my new baby: thanks to Jon Auringer of Astronautics and Merle Pierce of RICM, I have now a VAX 11/780 in my garage. Nice cabinet, with UNIBUS extension and a TE16 drive (looks nice but will I ever sacrifice a 25A circuit just for it?). Inside the VAX are KA780, UBA, MS780 (8 MB) and 2 MBAs. In the UNIBUS cabinet are two DZ-11, an INTERLAN BD-NI 1010, an M8716 (general purpose parallel), and a "CBV inc" (?) "MODEL-215 DMA Option" (two 4-wide boards with additional cable between them, to a 3-row D connector that looks a bit like my KLESI connector ... any idea what that might be?). More UNIBUS stuff: Datasystems LP 11/32 (parallel printer) a few grants (I need to learn UNIBUSology to understand how this can work.) I have spare DZ-11, just in case someone is in need. The last board is a 919 UNIBUS connector with long cable connecting into another drawer. That one is a backplane of unknown nature. It has one card to play the UNIBUS adapter, then a whole bunch of MEGATEK cards all together making up a frame-buffer and digitizer assembly that was used for a SCICARDS circuit layout system. Any shred of information about this would be appreciated. I don't think its UNIBUS or QBUS (no grants between the two clusters of cards.) Now, since I want to use this VAX to upgrade to an 11/785, I still need a KA785 CPU backplane. The worst beaten-up machine that you see in your neighbor's dumpster will do for screwing those pieces off. Unfortunately they are all too often forgotten. But I will first go with the 11/780 setup to gain the feeling for this class of machine. I have some documentation and probably a full set of diagnostics floppies. If anyone needs, I'll be happy to help out ... of course I first need to get the machine going to read the floppies. I am looking for info on the CI installation. I have the CI boards but no clue about cab-kit stuff. Was hoping to use parts of the CIBCA cab kit stuff to build one. I am also looking for a source of FP780 boards, mine had no floating poing option installed. I have the additional PSU, but no cabling for the PSU to the backplane and of course no FP780 cards. (I have FP785 cards, but they don't mix.) Finally I'm contemplating to build a dual processor machine if I can gather the parts for it. All I need is a CPU extension cabinet, a second KA780 or 785 CPU set and bits and pieces from other VAX 11/78x backplanes (SBI cabling, mounting stuff etc.) Apparently the Purdue guys have done that very successfully in 1981, and the only reason this wasn't an SMP setup appears to be that 4.1 BSD didn't do SMP. I would imagine that one could hack NetBSD to run a dual 11/78x. (That's not an 11/782 or /787, DEC did that differently.) So, if you have a spare extension cabinet, backplane, CPU boards, PSUs, card cage, card rails, cables, even the meanest nag, let me know. I am slowly switching from an ackquisition frenzie to maintenance mode. I seem to have most of what I can reasonably want and fit into my house. Now it's time to get it all going well. If I have things running by Summer, I'm thinking of throwing a VAX-Party. But it may take me until next year. I have given my 6000-520 and second SA600 and second HSC90 to Merle from RICM. I still have a TU81PLUS and a Dataproducts printer to give away. Probably also two terminals (VT 420 or so). regards, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 29 01:48:37 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: S/370 docs (was: Re: IBM big iron.) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Norm Aleks wrote: > On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > Well, here is a list of what I have. Anyone know if these are still > > current? If so, I don't think I'll be scanning them. > > From the IBM Publications web site, > http://www.elink.ibmlink.ibm.com/public/applications/publications/cgibin/pbi.cgi?CTY=US > one of the documents you have is still in print: > > > IBM System/370 Principles of Operation > > Order No. GA22-7000-9 > > The next version, GA22-7000-10, is available for purchase -- $11.25 I think my copy is actually already -10, or at least updated since -9. It has a Technical Newsletter No. GN22-0683 Dated 12 June 1985 in the same binder. Whoever owned the set never put the pages into place, and simply put the whole bundle in the front of the binder. From the looks of it, IBM does seem to set reasonable prices on their documents. > All of the rest of your documents are listed, but unavailable for > purchase. The S/360 stuff and all of the old software material is > totally obsolete; no support is available on the material it covers. > Now, it's true IBM still has copyright on the material, but for things > they're not currently charging for they've been pretty lenient. So it sounds like it would be "ok" to scan/OCR everything but the S/370 Principles of Operation manual. I guess eventually I'd be able to scan that one too. I saved all four of these manuals from a recycle bin back in '96 or so. I didn't have any idea at all what I had back then. Anyone else want to comment on this? Anyone know of any past problems related to putting obsolete and out of print IBM manuals online? -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 29 01:56:52 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: S/370 docs (was: Re: IBM big iron.) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Norm Aleks wrote: > Brian Knittel and I would be happy to put your S/370 documents up on > IBM1130.ORG. Its planned organization (i.e. the organization that is > not currently showing on it) includes sections for "related systems," > primarily S/360 and earlier unit record (punched card) systems. But > S/370 is very cool; that'd be great. (Besides, both of us have been > looking for S/370 manuals to help us understand how to administer MVS, > VM, and CMS on Hercules.) Tried to email you directly, but ORBZ is blocking my emails again. I'll try to resend it in a few days after I have a rant session at my isp's email server admins :) -Toth From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jan 29 04:39:08 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: S/370 docs (was: Re: IBM big iron.) In-Reply-To: <15446.12497.644124.569712@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > Watch it - IBM still sells stuff like this, and might get angry. > > > Remember, the S/370 architecture is still very much in use today. > > > > Really? These seem to be ancient, and seem to have been well taken care > > of. I'll check them later and see what their dates were. I can't imagine > > them still being in print :) > > Their current mainframe architecture is based on, and largely > compatible with, the S/370 architecture. And there are a LOT of very > old actual S/370s still in use. It's cool. The prevailing attitude is, "Why upgrade? This works fine." Peace... Sridhar From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Jan 29 07:27:32 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: S/370 docs (was: Re: IBM big iron.) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > > > Watch it - IBM still sells stuff like this, and might get angry. > > > > Remember, the S/370 architecture is still very much in use today. > > > > > > Really? These seem to be ancient, and seem to have been well taken care > > > of. I'll check them later and see what their dates were. I can't imagine > > > them still being in print :) > > > > Their current mainframe architecture is based on, and largely > > compatible with, the S/370 architecture. And there are a LOT of very > > old actual S/370s still in use. > > It's cool. The prevailing attitude is, "Why upgrade? This works fine." Cool, so in a couple years when I graduate and get a real job and a real place to live that has space, there might be some of them still laying around to be salvaged . Saweeet! -- Pat From allain at panix.com Tue Jan 29 08:03:40 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: S/370 docs (was: Re: IBM big iron.) References: Message-ID: <006901c1a8cd$c1d35860$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Remember, the S/370 architecture is still very much in use today. Would the the successor machines (3033?,3084?) be considered S/370 _architecture_? For that matter what is the modern IBM MF architecture referred to as? John A. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 29 08:56:13 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: HP JetDirect for Apple?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020129145613.59888.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- Russ Blakeman wrote: > What jetdirect cards are you looking for - in other words for which HP > printers? I work in these things all the time and come across sources of > various ones from time to time. Also which ethernet - 10baseT, 10/100? > With BNC or without? Personally, _I'm_ looking for an HP JetDirect card for my LJ-IIID. I'd prefer 10BaseT over 10Base2. I wouldn't say no to a 10/100 card, but I doubt there was one for this old printer. Currently, it's on my network via an external HP print server that I'd like to recycle to a dumb inkjet printer. It came from the surplus shop with an AppleTalk card (and PostScript) The card I'm looking for should have multi-protocol support - Unix, Apple and PeeCee. If I had a part number, I'd list it, but I know they made such things. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Tue Jan 29 08:07:14 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: a VAX 11/780 in my garage ... References: <3C563EB4.9030103@aurora.regenstrief.org> <15446.16329.254387.639479@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3C56AC92.42422BA6@Vishay.com> Why sacrifice a circuit, I have meanwhile managed running several meters of cable through the corridor, dismantled and reassembled power distribution to add three new circuits of 16A each (at 230V, as is common here in Germany, that makes about 11kVA in total for all three circuits). My neighbors will be able to confirm that putting the cables into the concrete walls was hard work: they *must* have heard it... ;-) This is just about right for a PDP-11/34A, a PDP-11/23, and a Micro-PDP-11/23PLUS and their peripherals, such as LA36 and LA120 printing terminals, and two-and-a-half 19" racks of diskette (8", of course, what'd you think? ;^), disk, and tape drives. Not much left to feed a MicroVAX, however - sigh... Andreas Dave McGuire wrote: > > On January 29, Gunther Schadow wrote: > > I am happy to announce my new baby: thanks to Jon Auringer of > > Astronautics and Merle Pierce of RICM, I have now a VAX 11/780 > > in my garage. Nice cabinet, with UNIBUS extension and a TE16 > > drive (looks nice but will I ever sacrifice a 25A circuit just > > for it?). > > Oh My. I *really* like TE16 drives. They'll run on much less than > a 25A circuit, though...Years ago, I ran a TE16 and a PDP11/34a with > two RL01s on a 15A circuit. It was tight, but it ran. > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire > St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 29 08:19:23 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: Looking for DEC pedestal case parts... In-Reply-To: <3C558C16.29685.8678E2C@localhost> Message-ID: <20020129141923.18792.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> --- Lawrence Walker wrote: > You might try > > http://www.pdp8.com > > This was the leftovers from the Maynard DEC plant when Compaq took over. > The guy that bought it was on the list for a while and moved it all to > Toronto himself by about 6 or 7 U-Haul trucks... That would be John Bradenatau (sp?), right? > He still seems to have a big inventory. If you get a response, please let us all know. I and a few other PDP-8 afficiandos have been trying to reach him for some time. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 29 08:22:28 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: Searching for old DEC 12V frontpanel bulbs In-Reply-To: <10201282146.ZM19368@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20020129142228.46440.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com> --- Pete Turnbull wrote: > At 05:53 AM 1/28/02 -0800, Ethan wrote: > > > I'm restoring some pre-TTL DEC stuff (R and W series logic) and I need > > a handful of front panel bulbs. > > Sounds like a standard T1_1/2 (about 3/16" diameter) or T1_3/4 (about > 1/4" diameter) wire-ended bulb. There are still a few companies that > make them. If I had to guess, I'd go with the 1/4" diameter. These are larger than PDP-8/L or RL01/RL02 bulbs. > > If DEC was underfeeding these bulbs to extend their life, I would > > expect that the bulb should be rated at 14V-16V. > The Farnell catalogue lists a few that are 14V. The correct bulbs for my > RL02 drives are 14V, fed from a 12V supply, as you say. >From a conversation with Jeff Russ, a PDP collector from Indiana, it seems that the bulbs are 28V, underfed to 12V-14V. He found some similar bulbs at a hamefest once, but they drew double the current of the originals. > > I have checked the online manuals I could find, but no mention is made > > of the nature of the bulbs for 1966/1967-era DEC equipment. Any ideas? > > Take a look at Farnell's online catalogue... Nice tip. Thanks. I'll look for them there. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 29 08:31:32 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: Searching for old DEC 12V frontpanel bulbs In-Reply-To: <3C553CDE.13997.229EE7EA@localhost> Message-ID: <20020129143132.2386.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> --- Brian Knittel wrote: > Check out Chicago Miniature Lamp. They seem to be > one of the only remaining manufacturers of tiny > incandescent lamps. > > http://www.sli-lighting.com/cml/index.cfm Thanks for the tip. > I've found it hard to find distributors > who'll sell fewer than 100 lamps, though. I'm not worried about quantity... If I sum up all the spots for these bulbs in one panel, it's something on the order of 70 bulbs (Straight-8 - 4 ranks of 12 bits plus LINK, plus 6 EMA bits, plus state bits, plus decoded instruction type). I'm not too worried about price - they cost what they cost, if it's $0.50 in quantity or $2.00 each. I got my PDP-8/i because the previous owner didn't want to pay for a fistful of bulbs from DEC at $2.00 each. I had a dead -8/L front panel with enough bulbs to fix the -8/i and I was in business. Not all of them are defective, true, but if I needed to replace 6 bulbs, I wouldn't buy just 6. I know I need at least 20 bulbs and I wouldn't be surprised if I needed more. Such is the price of antiquity. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Jan 29 08:43:42 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066324@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> >"tatty polys"? It sounds British, but I have no idea what it is. tatty (adj.) - in less than pristine condition polys (n.) - white polystyrene inserts in the box used to stop your tiny games console from flying around an oversized box during transportation Personally I'm more worried about working contents rather than the MIB stuff. HTH, Antonio From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 29 08:45:45 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: C3-SI In-Reply-To: <000d01c1a831$f9f08d40$acdb3fd0@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <20020129144545.43696.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike wrote: > From: Ethan Dicks > > > > > > That sounds wicked. I wonder how they handled the 12-bit bus of > > > > the 6100. > > > > OSI bus is 12bit address and data. Pins 13 -16 = D8 - D11, but I don't > know anythng about the EMA bits or RAM use under the 6100. I caught the other correction about 12 bits data, 20 bits address... so there's no conflict. Presumably, you would stuff extra chips to put RAM off of D8-D11 (who'd want to have them populated if there were only 8-bit CPUs in the box), but at least the bus bits are there. As for the EMA, that's no big deal either... the 6100 will assert them as needed, and the memory cards would just see them as A12-A15. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 29 08:50:57 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1DD@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <20020129145057.85358.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> --- Christopher Smith wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com] > > > > Dead chip in the keyboard, usually. We never fixed them when I used > > VT100s on a daily basis. > > Do you know anything about the type/location on the board of this chip? Nothing. As I said, we never fixed them. I have put wires on CPU backplanes, constructed Unibus and Qbus and VAXBI boards from parts, but I have never had the reason to open a VT100 keyboard and look inside. > Hmm.. VT100 keyboard schematics, anyone? :) I'd really like to make this > into a console for my PDP-11. Never seen keyboard schematics. I have some manuals for some of the terminals, but I don't recall that the keyboards are really mentioned. I know it's not what you want to hear, but they really were disposable. Expensive, but disposable. I think people might have swapped switches if they were physically broken (keystems snapping off or the leaves in the switches getting bent from vigorous keytop insertion), but I do not have a single memory of anyone attempting electronic repair 20 years ago. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From jhfine at idirect.com Tue Jan 29 08:52:49 2002 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1D2@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <3C56B741.178DFBD5@idirect.com> >Christopher Smith wrote: > Another weekend project of mine has been working on a VT131 > terminal. The terminal seems to work fine when receiving data. > > The terminal always powers up with a "4" in the corner > (keyboard error?). Typing characters on the keyboard will give > no response from either the terminal, or the system to which > it's connected. The lights flash (all at once), and the speaker > beeps when power is applied to the terminal. No lights are ever > activated afterwards, though. > > Having taken apart the keyboard, it does have an empty socket for > a DIP. Anyone know what this is? > > Is it possible that this is a "lookalike" keyboard? Did DEC make > different models for different VT100 terminals -- were they > compatible? If this is an authentic DEC keyboard, will it be > marked as such somewhere? If so, how? > > The key layout _looks_ like VT100, but... > > The reason I'm asking about the brand is that there was another > terminal at the junk yard, completely trashed, which looked like > a VT100, but had a completely different branding. I forget the > brand right off, but I'm afraid I may have picked up the keyboard > for the dead terminal, and that it may not be compatible at all. > > Failing a way to positively identify the keyboard, are there any > common modes of failure along these lines? > > Also, I'm guessing at this point that the terminal is in good shape. > Does anyone know where to get a keyboard? > > Chris > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL Jerome Fine replies: As far as I know, ALL VT100 style keyboards are identical. As are all LK201 keyboards for a VT220/VT320, etc. If you can find an old dead VT100 style terminal, normally the keyboards last much longer than the monitor portion - at least my PILE of old keyboards is my experience. However, there are many components inside the monitor that also must work correctly which are concerned with receiving characters from the keyboard and sending those characters to the computer (or whatever is at the end of the RS232 cable). And although they rarely are non-functional (in most cases when a terminal goes bad I can still send characters to the computer), I guess it can happen. Suggestion: Get another keyboard or at least test your keyboard in another VT100 style terminal. OTHER KEYBOARDS from compatible VT100 terminals WILL PROBABLY CAUSE DAMAGE to the VT131. I recommend against doing that. If you are not sure - normally compatible terminals are clearly marked as non-DEC, don't experiment. Hope this helps! From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Tue Jan 29 05:03:11 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: Here I Am In-Reply-To: <3C4ECAF7.F9BC4787@ecubics.com> References: <200201230614.g0N6EfB10238@narnia.int.dittman.net> <006901c1a417$40af06e0$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020129220159.02f39330@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 07:38 AM 23/01/2002 -0700, emanuel stiebler wrote: >Jay West wrote: > > > > There is something to be said for not just trying to > > run on everything under the sun - and that directly translates into > > stability of the OS. > >So, suddenly windows runs stable, just because they support x86 only ? Well NT on Alpha was significantly more stable than NT on Intel mainly because there were only a limited number of supported (or even available) configurations. What amazes me about Windows is not that it crashes often but that it runs at all given the mix of hardware that it attempts to support. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jan 29 05:25:08 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: Passwords was: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: References: <3C55A625.2355.8CD5CA7@localhost> Message-ID: >No computer is truly secure if someone has physical access to it. Nobody with "normal" ability is going to break most of the stuff like IBM puts on laptop harddrives. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jan 29 05:31:16 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: Not-so-OT point of philosophy In-Reply-To: <200201290329.TAA12866@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: >I started internal medicine rotation at the Loma Linda VA Hospital today >and noted that the entire place is crawling with WinTerms (by Wyse, no less), >running WinCE, connected via Citrix to a Win2K Advanced Server host. There >are only a few "real" PCs there -- in fact, I think the Macs might outnumber >them. Software, not hardware makes the world go round. If the best software uses terminals etc. then thats what places will have. Best of course might translate to cheapest. From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Jan 29 07:05:10 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: Hayes Micromodem II / microcoupler (was: Re: Is this a IBM RT mouse?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, John Chris Wren wrote: > > > Somewhere around here, I also have the schematics for the Chronograph. > > I've got 15 :-), 4 of which work, 11 of which are untested. > > Damn you! You've killed the rarity of my Chronograph! > > :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival I had to leave a trail of dead bodies to get those. I've also got a couple of original 300 baud SmartModems, which believe it or not, were fetching a high price in the collectors market. I snagged them because I spent so much time, I wanted to re-live the bottle neck experience any time I got too complacent with my ADSL connection. --JOhn From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 29 08:08:51 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: Hayes Chronograph (was RE: Hayes Micromodem II / microcoupler) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020129140851.45405.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Chris Wren wrote: > > > > On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, John Chris Wren wrote: > > > > > Somewhere around here, I also have the schematics for the > > > Chronograph. Cool! > > I've got 15 :-), 4 of which work, 11 of which are untested. I think that's why the rest of us can't find any. ;-) > I've also got a couple of original 300 baud SmartModems, which believe it > or not, were fetching a high price in the collectors market. That's disgusting. OTOH, now that I have a Chronograph, I'm working on the rest of the stack... I think I have about 80% of the devices. > I snagged them because I spent so much time, I wanted to re-live the > bottle neck experience any time I got too complacent with my ADSL > connection. If I wanted to do that, I'd use this here "VIC Modem"... my first. I brought it into work (at CompuServe) because I work with some ex-Customer Service folks that used to handle calls from VIC Modem users, and because I used to _call_ CompuServe with this very artifact - 300 baud, $6/hour. I'd love to see the schematics on the Chronograph. I was working on an emulator, but it stalled due to lack of time and locating a *real* Chronograph (a friend of mine had one in the basement he bought for $10 at a hamfest and fired up once - one cold solder joint on the AC connector and it was happy as a clam). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Jan 29 10:11:43 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: Hayes Micromodem II / microcoupler (was: Re: Is this a IBM RT mouse?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Say John, you wouldn't happen to have docs on the Transet 1000 would you? g. On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, John Chris Wren wrote: > > > Somewhere around here, I also have the schematics for the Chronograph. > > I've got 15 :-), 4 of which work, 11 of which are untested. > > Damn you! You've killed the rarity of my Chronograph! > > :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Tue Jan 29 04:05:34 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W! Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021AB6@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] > Sent: 29 January 2002 01:06 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W! > > I've got one of these plotters in the original Styrofoam > packing stored > away somewhere. The outer box was gone when I got it, as was its power > supply. Speaking of which, anyone have an extra wall wart (or > brick?) for > one of these that they'd be willing to part with? I'm breaking a 1520 for spares since I've got a MIB one in the museum and this other one has tatty polys and isn't in the best condition. I'll check, but it'll be the 240V version..... probably no use at all :) a From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 29 08:15:25 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) In-Reply-To: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021AB6@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> Message-ID: <20020129141525.99243.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> --- Adrian Graham wrote: > I'm breaking a 1520 for spares since I've got a MIB one in the museum and > this other one has tatty polys and isn't in the best condition. I'll > check, but it'll be the 240V version..... "tatty polys"? It sounds British, but I have no idea what it is. I've just been trying to locate replacement gears for my 1520 - So far, my measurements have yielded the following... 14 teeth 0.175" tall ~0.144" diameter (hard to get an exact measurement with my micrometer) I do not know the pitch or the depth. Not sure how to accurately measure them except with a fine-pitch measuring stick and a magnifying device (I have neither). I do not know the shaft diameter yet, but that's only because I haven't gotten the micrometer to where the plotter is. There are two of these gears in the plotter, one on the X and one on the Y gear trains. They are the last step in the reduction. I have an Atari plotter with the same innards as the C= 1520 and both of the gears in there are split along the bottom of a groove - thin material there, plus a bit of stress and who knows what kind of thermal expansion. The local hobby stores do not carry gears with such a fine pitch. For that diameter, they have 10 and 12 toothed gears, not 14. There are gear specialty companies, but I don't have enough measurements to search the catalogs or place an order. I'd love to have a handful of these - I have a real 1520 as well as the Atari plotter (and pens and paper). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From rhblakeman at kih.net Tue Jan 29 09:27:04 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: HP JetDirect for Apple?? In-Reply-To: <20020129145613.59888.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'll see what I can find and let you know know by direct email when I locate one. It's the same for the IIID as for the IID and II/III. Most are 10base2 coax though, have to see what's around in the 10baseT RJ45 type. => -----Original Message----- => From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org => [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks => Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 8:56 AM => To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org => Subject: RE: HP JetDirect for Apple?? => => => => --- Russ Blakeman wrote: => > What jetdirect cards are you looking for - in other words for which HP => > printers? I work in these things all the time and come across => sources of => > various ones from time to time. Also which ethernet - 10baseT, 10/100? => > With BNC or without? => => Personally, _I'm_ looking for an HP JetDirect card for my LJ-IIID. I'd => prefer 10BaseT over 10Base2. I wouldn't say no to a 10/100 card, but I => doubt there was one for this old printer. Currently, it's on my network => via an external HP print server that I'd like to recycle to a dumb => inkjet printer. It came from the surplus shop with an AppleTalk card => (and PostScript) => => The card I'm looking for should have multi-protocol support - Unix, => Apple and PeeCee. If I had a part number, I'd list it, but I know => they made such things. => => -ethan => => => => => => __________________________________________________ => Do You Yahoo!? => Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! => http://auctions.yahoo.com => From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 29 09:05:54 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: Shameless Plug! In-Reply-To: <15446.15656.541041.981198@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <200201282151090073.14CF7D44@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020129100554.007d3c80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:11 AM 1/29/02 -0500, you wrote: > Hey...On your other auction, the one for the transmission test >set...In the leftmost rack in the background, at the top...Would that >happen to be a TrueTime GPS, WWVB, or GOES time standard? I think I >recognize the color and the rack handle. :) > > -Dave Hi Dave, I have two GEOS time standards but I need antennas for them. Any idea where I can find some? cheap? It's a circularly polarized signal so it's not your typical antenna. Joe From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jan 29 09:27:18 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: HP 9000 800/G40 console cable -- again! Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1F8@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> An update on that HP system. It seems the pinout I had for the console cable is completely off. :) (Great!) I did manage to find the send and receive pins and get those plugged in, so I have a console connection. Anyway, the point of this is -- nobody use that last pinout. I got an offer before from somebody who has one of these, and was willing to check how the cable works. I will try to obtain a complete, corrected pinout. ;) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jan 29 09:34:33 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: That's not a _real_ computer(Was: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payo la?)) Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1F9@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Lawrence Walker [mailto:lgwalker@mts.net] > On the other hand MY TRS80 5meg HD is bigger than your XT, > and my pre-Sprint Qume power supply is known to dim lights in > the neighborhood. And it don't use no steenking, cheating, 220V > power source. I read that as "TRS80 Smeg HD" :) Are you sure you're not exaggerating? TRS-80s themselves wouldn't be that big without the monitor attached. :) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Tue Jan 29 08:55:31 2002 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: S/370 docs (was: Re: IBM big iron.) Message-ID: > > > IBM docs really are very good and complete - probably more so than > > anyone else's. They are a pain in the neck to read, unless you can > > speak the language. Speaking of which... I have a stack of /36 docs that I'd like to part with. I have not looked through all the DOCs but believe the list is accurate. According to the list on the box(s), these are the DOCS: The system/36 Library Using the Async Comm support RPG II messages Source Entry Utility guide Utilities messages Operating your system 5360, 5362 Communications and System Management Guide System 36 Distributed Data management guide Sort Guide Data File utility Guide Using system/36 Communications Interactive Communications Feature: guide and Examples System messages Programming with RPG II Interactive Communications Feature: Reference System /34 to System /36 migration aid Creating Displays: Screen Design aid and system Support program Concepts and Programmers Guide System /36 - system reference Setting up your computer: 5360 Installing you new features: 5362 Performing first configuration: 5360 Operating your computer System porblem determination 5362 Changing system configuration Guide to Publications Converting your /34 to /36 Procedures and Commands Summary. Some of the DOCs are showing wear while others are in excellent condition. Overall, I rate their condition as very good. I'd guess the total weight of the DOCs is around 45 lbs. Because of my curent financial situation, I cannot give them away. However, I will consider REASONABLE offers on this library. If anyone is interested, send me a message offline and we'll discuss. See ya, SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 29 09:50:34 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) In-Reply-To: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021AB6@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Adrian Graham wrote: > I'm breaking a 1520 for spares since I've got a MIB one in the museum and > this other one has tatty polys and isn't in the best condition. I'll check, > but it'll be the 240V version..... > > probably no use at all :) Not really, I'd need a 120V version. Do you happen to know what the output voltage(s) are? I haven't even looked at the power connector on the 1520 I have. I'm guessing it uses a Din or coaxial power connector like most of the Commodore or Atari gear had. -Toth From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Tue Jan 29 09:44:23 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) References: <20020129141525.99243.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C56C357.5010107@aurora.regenstrief.org> Ethan Dicks wrote: > I'd love to have a handful of these - I have a real 1520 as well as the > Atari plotter (and pens and paper). That reminds me that I have one of those too. Is there any recognized method of poor-man's pen replacement? Crayons? Ballpens? -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Tue Jan 29 09:47:11 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: Old 9-track tape data References: <200201281655.g0SGtQ906770@morse.Colorado.EDU> Message-ID: <3C56C3FF.8020900@aurora.regenstrief.org> Did you already find one? I know two guys in Denver who should be able to help you out. I have a 9-track too and could read your tapes, but you shouldn't have to ship to Indy. -Gunther pb@Colorado.EDU wrote: > I wonder if anyone can give me suggestions on the "best" way to get data (not > all that much) off of some old 9-track tapes I have. They are all written > with tar, on BSD 4.1-4.3 and BSD 2.8-2.9. If I was smart, the tapes are all > written at 800 or 1600 bpi; I may not have been, and one or more may be at > 6250 (?) bpi. > > I would be delighted to hear two types of offers: (1) someone in the Denver > area who has the proper hardware and software, and to whom I can bring the > tapes and some other medium (1.4/2.8 meg floppy; 100 meg zip) and extract the > files; (2) someone with the proper hardware and software who would be willing > for me to ship them the tapes, and make the data (tar files) available to me > via ftp. I would certainly entertain other reasonable possibilities, as well. > > Thanks in advance. (This must not be a terribly uncommon "problem," right?) > > PB Schechter > -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jan 29 09:48:15 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: IRIS Power Series power supply questions Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1FA@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > OK, Neutral, Live (or Line) and Earth (or Ground). Ok, thanks for the correction on this, by the way. > What colour are the 3 loose wires ? Try one of the following > colour sets > : > US Old UK New UK/European/International? > Earth Green Green Green/Yellow > Neutral White Black Blue > Live Black Red Brown I think it's actually blue, brown, and white. Blue being neutral, brown live, and white earth, it seems. I could take the panel off and check, but I'm not at home right now. > Of course it might be something non-standard, but if those are the > colours, it's a good bet that's how they're used. Very close to the third option above, but not quite. Maybe it's a really pale yellow ;) > wrong term (again, no meaning for 'positive' with AC), but > you've come to > the right conclusion. Well, I guess it's better to sound inexperienced than to make things explode. :) > That's how I'd wire it... Never seen one, though, so I can't > be _certain_ Well, we're in nearly the same boat here. This is the only one I've seen, and it has all the wires loose. ;) Thanks again, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jan 29 09:57:06 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: Scoring system for messages to avoid annoying dweebs? Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1FD@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] > For instance, this message would get negative votes for being > off-topic, > my score would go down, and then some people might find it > preferable to > ignore future messages from me based on my score ;) What happens when everyone votes each other down to 0? :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From red at bears.org Tue Jan 29 10:03:10 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: 10-pin RS/6000 serial cables available Message-ID: Hey, based on what some folks were saying on list earlier in the month, I grabbed a small quantity of RS/6000 cables, which I'm offering for my cost ($2) plus shipping. FRU 74F3135 10-pin ("dual5") plug <-> miniDIN-8 I can't speculate as to what its original purpose might've been, but perhaps some of you might find it useful for your older RS/6000s. ok r. From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jan 29 10:04:03 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1FE@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Chase [mailto:vaxzilla@jarai.org] > On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > I'm pretty sure your RT counts on at least the point of having a > > proper system monitor, though. :) Honestly, I don't have many > > machines with wheels, myself.... I have two now, and a few that > > _should_ have wheels, but don't, which may also count... Gotta get > > one of those nice BA-123s for one of my MicroVAXen. > Would that be with or without the naked woman option? Well -- a fiancee could be... um... converted -- into a "naked woman option..." She has her own VAX even, but it's a VAXStation 2000, which doesn't have any wheels. Right now, though, there are no nude women on my VAXen. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jan 29 10:11:10 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II update Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1FF@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Lawrence Walker [mailto:lgwalker@mts.net] > TRS80s. Mini and > micro people would be all over each other. And I would be in I don't imagine that would be the case. I think most people on the list are diverse enough to appreciate both. > a minus rating > because of my non-industry ignorance. Then how would I get > help in simple > repair tasks for my collection ? ... and everyone's ignorant of some things. Life would be boring if you had nothing left to learn. On the other hand, you're right that it's probably a bad idea -- just not for those reasons ;) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jan 29 10:14:38 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E200@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com [mailto:pete@dunnington.u-net.com] > "4", etc. If > only the keyboard test fails, the terminal should go online > in receive-only > mode (ie it's useful as a display). It does that... :) Would like to type things, though. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Jan 29 10:35:44 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) In-Reply-To: <3C56C357.5010107@aurora.regenstrief.org> References: <20020129141525.99243.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020129113544.014c3a20@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Gunther Schadow may have mentioned these words: >Ethan Dicks wrote: > > >> I'd love to have a handful of these - I have a real 1520 as well as the >> Atari plotter (and pens and paper). > > >That reminds me that I have one of those too. Is there any >recognized method of poor-man's pen replacement? Crayons? >Ballpens? Radio Shack. No, really! Radio Shack. Last I checked, they still stock replacement pens for their CGP-115, (and the PC-2 printer/plotter) which just happened to be based on the same carriage & pens -- they're really quite reasonable (like, $4 or $5 USD for a pack of 3 - either all black, or red/green/blue) and if you toss them a few extra bones (like $3 or so) they'll have it shipped right to your house. Oh, and the 1520 I just *happen* to have sitting next to my desk here at work, uses a standard IEC 120V power plug - the same one you find on all of your computer, office-calculator & other equipment - usually cost you around $3.00 at a decent computer shop. (ahem - like mine... ;-) Anybody want it? Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 29 10:23:13 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:19 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) In-Reply-To: <3C56C357.5010107@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > I'd love to have a handful of these - I have a real 1520 as well as the > > Atari plotter (and pens and paper). > > That reminds me that I have one of those too. Is there any recognized > method of poor-man's pen replacement? Crayons? Ballpens? Sadly, I passed up on 100s of replacement pens for these...and the place that had them for $0.05/pkg closed up shop a few months ago. I should have bought them up when I had the chance :/ -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 29 10:30:16 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: IRIS Power Series power supply questions In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1FA@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > > > What colour are the 3 loose wires ? Try one of the following > > colour sets > > : > > US Old UK New UK/European/International? > > Earth Green Green Green/Yellow > > Neutral White Black Blue > > Live Black Red Brown > > I think it's actually blue, brown, and white. Blue being neutral, > brown live, and white earth, it seems. I could take the panel off > and check, but I'm not at home right now. White isn't a standard ground wire color. Maybe someone changed something in your machine at some point? Green is a standard ground wire color in the US, while Green with a yellow stripe meets international standards. I've seen blue/brown/white used for 240V ungrounded twist-lock connectors before, but I'm certain these machines require 120V at 20A. > > Of course it might be something non-standard, but if those are the > > colours, it's a good bet that's how they're used. > > Very close to the third option above, but not quite. Maybe it's a > really pale yellow ;) It should have a green base color if it's a ground wire. > > That's how I'd wire it... Never seen one, though, so I can't > > be _certain_ > > Well, we're in nearly the same boat here. This is the only one I've > seen, and it has all the wires loose. ;) I'm going to attempt to uncover one of my machines today and snap some pics for you. -Toth From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jan 29 10:23:33 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: S/370 docs (was: Re: IBM big iron.) In-Reply-To: <006901c1a8cd$c1d35860$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, John Allain wrote: > Would the the successor machines (3033?,3084?) > be considered S/370 _architecture_? For that matter Ok. The architecture went like this: S/370 --> S/370-IX --> S/370-XA --> ESA/370 --> ESA/390 --> z/Architecture > what is the modern IBM MF architecture referred to as? z/Architecture. Peace... Sridhar From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jan 29 10:29:23 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: Passwords was: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E201@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Lawrence Walker [mailto:lgwalker@mts.net] > While passwords may be necessary in a business environment, > they are a real pain to home-based single users or following owners. They provide a little extra privacy from prying eyes. Of course, there is no password that can't be circumvented somehow, given access to the console, or, in a worst case, the system itself. > I mean, really, I'm in the middle of nowhere in northern Manitoba, > in a house where I live alone with a protective dog, and only hook up > to my ISP when I want to access it. Do I need this ? But even my You could turn it off. :) > NEXT demands a password and I had to do an extensive search to find > out how to re-do the original one. But of course the holy grail of > computer makers is that BIG contract. Any unix I've ever met will let you blank the password out... it will still ask for it, but you can just hit return. > complicate my life. I thought that that's one of the things > that computers > were for. To uncomplicate tasks and processes. On my computers Certainly they make higher math and weather modeling much easier. ;) > I DON"T NEED NO STEENKING PASSWORDS. > Windblows is the least of the transgressors. The UNIX type > are the worst > since they grew up in a security-conscious business environment. Lots of unixes even have an "auto-login" feature. > Right now after going thru a difficult Linux Red-Hat install > I can't find the > slip I wrote the password it insists upon, and must do a > fresh install. Actually you may be able to boot in single user mode without a password. Try it. > Fuck it, I'll reformat and look at another OS. > I believe that OS's or programs that don't provide > non-password access > should be boycotted. Well, again, just because it asks for a password, doesn't mean you've got to use one... > Do these guys really think that passwords can protect their data if > they don't have physical access protection ? We all know that even > supposedly deleted files can be ressurected. This is SUIT mentality > and they live in an imaginary world that they proclaim is the BOTTOM > LINE, realistic view of things. As MS has learned to it's > chagrin every > man-made "security" feature can be end-run by some bright young > hacker. Um, well, certainly any MS security feature can be circumvented by a blindfolded, dyslexic baboon. :) You are also right that there is a way around any security control, given physical access to the system. That really isn't the point of software security, though. I do realize that you are likely to be ranting due to frustration, but if nothing else, try blanking out some of your passwords and save yourself some of that trouble. :) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jan 29 10:37:52 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467579@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > ---------- > From: Doc > <<<<>>>> > But I think that in a day or 2 I'll probably be tied for the > *smallest* classic Unix box in the house. Part of this weekend's haul > was an SE/30, I found an ethernet adapter today, and I went to storage > this evening and dug out the 4M 30-pin SIMM stash. A/UX here I come.... > > Doc > ------- Doc --- Well, if I have my way, my Gateway Handbook will be a smaller Unix box... 10" x 6" x 1.5" ;-) And it just squeaks by 10 years old too ( I think, maybe 9...) --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 90581 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jan 29 10:40:40 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: Not-so-OT point of philosophy Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E202@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Cameron Kaiser [mailto:spectre@stockholm.ptloma.edu] > running WinCE, connected via Citrix to a Win2K Advanced > Server host. There > are only a few "real" PCs there -- in fact, I think the Macs > might outnumber > them. > Before all of you cry off-topic, doesn't it seem odd to > anyone we're now > full circle and back to low-power terminals connected to a > "mainframe," now Since when is a "Win2k Advanced Server host" a mainframe? :) That aside, though, no, it doesn't seem odd at all. It's certainly The Right Thing To Do, WRT administrative overhead, and maintenance/repair cost. Strange, possibly that corporate america is starting to do the right thing. That's never happened before, to my knowledge. > Compared to the WinTerms, my old Wyse terminal looks so nice. Especially when you consider that it won't run windows. :) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jan 29 10:49:32 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: a VAX 11/780 in my garage ... Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E203@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Gunther Schadow [mailto:gunther@aurora.regenstrief.org] > I am happy to announce my new baby: thanks to Jon Auringer of > Astronautics and Merle Pierce of RICM, I have now a VAX 11/780 > in my garage. Nice cabinet, with UNIBUS extension and a TE16 > drive (looks nice but will I ever sacrifice a 25A circuit just > for it?). Congratulations. Remember to put the stabilizers down before you open the doors ;) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From pb at Colorado.EDU Tue Jan 29 10:25:48 2002 From: pb at Colorado.EDU (pb@Colorado.EDU) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: Old 9-track tape data Message-ID: <200201291625.g0TGPmB17921@morse.Colorado.EDU> Thanks--I have heard from 3 people in the general vicinity. The one who replied first will also probably get my old Rainbow, just "thrown in." I'm delighted with how "common" 9-track drives (and, presumably, ones connected to UNIX machine) seem to be. I haven't seen one in years, although I haven't hung out in computer rooms the way I used to, either.... --pb From mrfusion at argonath.vaxpower.org Tue Jan 29 10:27:36 2002 From: mrfusion at argonath.vaxpower.org (Lord Isildur) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: a VAX 11/780 in my garage ... In-Reply-To: <3C563EB4.9030103@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: way cool!! 780, wow thats a cool piece of hardware! i have the installation manuals for the CI780. I can mail them to you. Maybe when youre done if you send them on to whoever has been scanning stuff in and putting it online, that would be cool.. isildur On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Hi > > I am happy to announce my new baby: thanks to Jon Auringer of > Astronautics and Merle Pierce of RICM, I have now a VAX 11/780 > in my garage. Nice cabinet, with UNIBUS extension and a TE16 > drive (looks nice but will I ever sacrifice a 25A circuit just > for it?). > > Inside the VAX are KA780, UBA, MS780 (8 MB) and 2 MBAs. In the > UNIBUS cabinet are two DZ-11, an INTERLAN BD-NI 1010, an > M8716 (general purpose parallel), and a "CBV inc" (?) > "MODEL-215 DMA Option" (two 4-wide boards with additional > cable between them, to a 3-row D connector that looks a > bit like my KLESI connector ... any idea what that might be?). > More UNIBUS stuff: Datasystems LP 11/32 (parallel printer) > a few grants (I need to learn UNIBUSology to understand how > this can work.) I have spare DZ-11, just in case someone is > in need. > > The last board is a 919 UNIBUS connector with long cable > connecting into another drawer. That one is a backplane of > unknown nature. It has one card to play the UNIBUS adapter, > then a whole bunch of MEGATEK cards all together making up > a frame-buffer and digitizer assembly that was used for > a SCICARDS circuit layout system. Any shred of information > about this would be appreciated. I don't think its UNIBUS or > QBUS (no grants between the two clusters of cards.) > > Now, since I want to use this VAX to upgrade to an 11/785, > I still need a KA785 CPU backplane. The worst beaten-up > machine that you see in your neighbor's dumpster will do > for screwing those pieces off. Unfortunately they are > all too often forgotten. > > But I will first go with the 11/780 setup to gain the > feeling for this class of machine. > > I have some documentation and probably a full set of > diagnostics floppies. If anyone needs, I'll be happy to > help out ... of course I first need to get the machine > going to read the floppies. > > I am looking for info on the CI installation. I have the > CI boards but no clue about cab-kit stuff. Was hoping > to use parts of the CIBCA cab kit stuff to build one. > > I am also looking for a source of FP780 boards, mine had > no floating poing option installed. I have the additional > PSU, but no cabling for the PSU to the backplane and of > course no FP780 cards. (I have FP785 cards, but they > don't mix.) > > Finally I'm contemplating to build a dual processor machine > if I can gather the parts for it. All I need is a CPU > extension cabinet, a second KA780 or 785 CPU set and bits > and pieces from other VAX 11/78x backplanes (SBI cabling, > mounting stuff etc.) Apparently the Purdue guys have > done that very successfully in 1981, and the only reason > this wasn't an SMP setup appears to be that 4.1 BSD > didn't do SMP. I would imagine that one could hack > NetBSD to run a dual 11/78x. (That's not an 11/782 or /787, > DEC did that differently.) So, if you have a spare > extension cabinet, backplane, CPU boards, PSUs, card cage, > card rails, cables, even the meanest nag, let me know. > > I am slowly switching from an ackquisition frenzie to > maintenance mode. I seem to have most of what I can > reasonably want and fit into my house. Now it's time to > get it all going well. If I have things running by > Summer, I'm thinking of throwing a VAX-Party. But it > may take me until next year. > > I have given my 6000-520 and second SA600 and second > HSC90 to Merle from RICM. I still have a TU81PLUS and > a Dataproducts printer to give away. Probably > also two terminals (VT 420 or so). > > regards, > -Gunther > > > -- > Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org > Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care > Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine > tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org > > > From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Jan 29 10:51:19 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: a VAX 11/780 in my garage ... Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066325@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> >way cool!! 780, wow thats a cool piece of hardware! Indeed! >i have the installation manuals for the CI780. I can mail them to you. >Maybe when youre done if you send them on to whoever has been scanning >stuff in and putting it online, that would be cool.. There's a bunch of manuals up already at: http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm I've already let them have a few more ... the install manual (or at least one version of it is in on its way there now IIRC). I'll dig out the numbers for 780 stuff in that pending batch - save you scanning something that's already been done! Antonio arcarlini@iee.org From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jan 29 10:54:48 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E204@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com] > I know it's not what you want to hear, but they really were > disposable. > Expensive, but disposable. I think people might have swapped switches > if they were physically broken (keystems snapping off or the leaves in > the switches getting bent from vigorous keytop insertion), > but I do not > have a single memory of anyone attempting electronic repair > 20 years ago. Not what I was hoping to hear, you're right, but it's what I was expecting. Thanks again. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jan 29 10:58:50 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E205@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: David Woyciesjes [mailto:DAW@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu] > Well, if I have my way, my Gateway Handbook will be a > smaller Unix > box... 10" x 6" x 1.5" ;-) > And it just squeaks by 10 years old too ( I think, maybe 9...) I have been thinking about putting Minix on my Poqet PC, which would probably take the record. ;) I need a 2M SRAM card or two, though. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jan 29 11:00:52 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: IRIS Power Series power supply questions Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E206@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] > White isn't a standard ground wire color. Maybe someone > changed something > in your machine at some point? Green is a standard ground > wire color in > the US, while Green with a yellow stripe meets international > standards. > I've seen blue/brown/white used for 240V ungrounded > twist-lock connectors > before, but I'm certain these machines require 120V at 20A. Again, that's just from memory, and I could be way off... > I'm going to attempt to uncover one of my machines today and snap some > pics for you. Great. Thanks. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 29 11:01:52 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020129113544.014c3a20@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that Gunther Schadow may have mentioned these words: > >Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > > >> I'd love to have a handful of these - I have a real 1520 as well as the > >> Atari plotter (and pens and paper). > > > > > >That reminds me that I have one of those too. Is there any > >recognized method of poor-man's pen replacement? Crayons? > >Ballpens? > > Radio Shack. > > No, really! Radio Shack. > > Last I checked, they still stock replacement pens for their CGP-115, > (and the PC-2 printer/plotter) which just happened to be based on the > same carriage & pens -- they're really quite reasonable (like, $4 or > $5 USD for a pack of 3 - either all black, or red/green/blue) and if > you toss them a few extra bones (like $3 or so) they'll have it > shipped right to your house. It's a discontinued item. They closed down the Houston area outlet store based on the little info I can gather. RS' customer relations department didn't have a clue as to what was going on with the Houston outlet store. > Oh, and the 1520 I just *happen* to have sitting next to my desk here > at work, uses a standard IEC 120V power plug - the same one you find > on all of your computer, office-calculator & other equipment - usually > cost you around $3.00 at a decent computer shop. (ahem - like mine... > ;-) I need to look at mine I guess. Maybe it isn't a 1520? I thought it needed some kind of wall-wart. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 29 11:09:22 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: a VAX 11/780 in my garage ... In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E203@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > From: Gunther Schadow [mailto:gunther@aurora.regenstrief.org] > > > I am happy to announce my new baby: thanks to Jon Auringer of > > Astronautics and Merle Pierce of RICM, I have now a VAX 11/780 > > in my garage. Nice cabinet, with UNIBUS extension and a TE16 > > drive (looks nice but will I ever sacrifice a 25A circuit just > > for it?). > > Congratulations. Remember to put the stabilizers down before you open > the doors ;) Speaking of stabilizers and racks/doors, anyone know if the SGI Predator racks had stabilizer feet standard, or if they were optional? Mine has recessed holes with nuts welded into them, but no feet are installed. I'm seriously considering adding some, but don't even know what I should use. -Toth From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Jan 29 11:11:33 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: Not-so-OT point of philosophy In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E202@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Cameron Kaiser [mailto:spectre@stockholm.ptloma.edu] > > > full circle and back to low-power terminals connected to a > > "mainframe," now > > Since when is a "Win2k Advanced Server host" a mainframe? :) > That aside, though, no, it doesn't seem odd at all. It's > certainly The Right Thing To Do, WRT administrative overhead, > and maintenance/repair cost. I think the point is more that "Win2k Advanced server would REQUIRE the power of a mainframe to run smoothly". :P -- Pat From foo at siconic.com Tue Jan 29 04:23:15 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: Hayes Micromodem II / microcoupler (was: Re: Is this a IBM RT mouse?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, John Chris Wren wrote: > I've also got a couple of original 300 baud SmartModems, which believe > it or not, were fetching a high price in the collectors market. I > snagged them because I spent so much time, I wanted to re-live the > bottle neck experience any time I got too complacent with my ADSL > connection. Oh yeah? Well, I've got the original Hayes modem product: the DC Hayes modem for the S-100 bus :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Jan 29 11:28:33 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) Message-ID: Nah, you can put Minix on an HP LX palmtop, which is smaller and lighter than a Poqet (see http://www.technoir.nu/hplx/minix.html). BTW, Last year Thaddeus had a number (about 4000!) of 1.5MB SRAM cards on sale (unadvertised) for 5 for $25. Check the message at http://www.technoir.nu/hplx/hplx-l/0104/msg00231.html. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Smith [mailto:csmith@amdocs.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 10:59 AM To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) > -----Original Message----- > From: David Woyciesjes [mailto:DAW@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu] > Well, if I have my way, my Gateway Handbook will be a > smaller Unix > box... 10" x 6" x 1.5" ;-) > And it just squeaks by 10 years old too ( I think, maybe 9...) I have been thinking about putting Minix on my Poqet PC, which would probably take the record. ;) I need a 2M SRAM card or two, though. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jan 29 12:10:33 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Feldman, Robert wrote: > Nah, you can put Minix on an HP LX palmtop, which is smaller and lighter > than a Poqet (see http://www.technoir.nu/hplx/minix.html). Isn't someone working on getting MINIX working on the TI-92+ calculator? Peace... Sridhar > BTW, Last year Thaddeus had a number (about 4000!) of 1.5MB SRAM cards on > sale (unadvertised) for 5 for $25. Check the message at > http://www.technoir.nu/hplx/hplx-l/0104/msg00231.html. > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher Smith [mailto:csmith@amdocs.com] > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 10:59 AM > To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: David Woyciesjes [mailto:DAW@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu] > > > Well, if I have my way, my Gateway Handbook will be a > > smaller Unix > > box... 10" x 6" x 1.5" ;-) > > And it just squeaks by 10 years old too ( I think, maybe 9...) > > I have been thinking about putting Minix on my Poqet PC, which would > probably take the record. ;) I need a 2M SRAM card or two, though. > > Chris > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 29 11:42:09 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467579@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Doc --- > Well, if I have my way, my Gateway Handbook will be a smaller Unix > box... 10" x 6" x 1.5" ;-) > And it just squeaks by 10 years old too ( I think, maybe 9...) Funny you should mention that. I'm supposed to pick up a Handbook this weekend, to see about installing Linux without removing the drive. It's an indefinite loan, drat it. The owner was trying to install on it last year, put the problem to the local LUG list, and started a huge flame war. I emailed him last week to see if he'd been successful, and he said he'd thrown it back in the closet in disgust. But I'm getting a chance to try my hand at it. I'd *really* like to have a Handbook of my own. Classic or not, they're Way Too Cool (tm). Hopefully, by the time I'm done with John's, I'll be affluent again. Doc From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jan 29 12:36:57 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146757B@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] ! ! ! On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: ! ! > Doc --- ! > Well, if I have my way, my Gateway Handbook will be a ! > smaller Unix box... 10" x 6" x 1.5" ;-) ! > And it just squeaks by 10 years old too ( I think, maybe 9...) ! ! Funny you should mention that. I'm supposed to pick up a Handbook ! this weekend, to see about installing Linux without removing ! the drive.... I wonder, what kind/size drive is in there? Can it be upgraded? ! I'd *really* like to have a Handbook of my own. Classic or not, ! they're Way Too Cool (tm). Hopefully, by the time I'm done ! with John's, I'll be affluent again. It is a Neat Thing, isn' tit? Let me know if I can be of help. I have the null modem cable, floppy drive, 2 power supplies... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 29 13:15:32 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146757B@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > I wonder, what kind/size drive is in there? Can it be upgraded? AFAIK, standard 2.5" IDE. John ain't shy about disassembling his toys, and the last resort idea was to pull the hdd, put it in a desktop, install Linux, and put it back, so I bet it's IDE. > It is a Neat Thing, isn' tit? Let me know if I can be of help. I have the > null modem cable, floppy drive, 2 power supplies... Didn't know there was a floppy option available.... But that would be cheating. The challenge that started the flame war (which, of course, I avoided completely... not) was how to make it boot a Linux kernel & pcmcia drivers without floppy drive or CD.... Doc From emu at ecubics.com Tue Jan 29 11:39:23 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: Old 9-track tape data References: <200201281655.g0SGtQ906770@morse.Colorado.EDU> <3C56C3FF.8020900@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <3C56DE4B.9CB7189A@ecubics.com> Gunther Schadow wrote: > > Did you already find one? I know two guys in Denver who should > be able to help you out. I have a 9-track too and could read your > tapes, but you shouldn't have to ship to Indy. So, who are the other two guys in Denver ? cheers From Darthsimon at aol.com Tue Jan 29 11:40:51 2002 From: Darthsimon at aol.com (Darthsimon@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: hey"! Message-ID: <40.184bbabb.298838a3@aol.com> Please say me, how it works! I want to convert my VHS into mpg-Files, but it doesn't work, only the Convertion of mpg to VHS works. Thank you for your answer, Roman (please not so hard english because I'm from germany....) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020129/55ac318d/attachment.html From gknight at emugaming.com Tue Jan 29 12:11:20 2002 From: gknight at emugaming.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: hey"! References: <40.184bbabb.298838a3@aol.com> Message-ID: <001301c1a8f0$5b0bc540$0d03a8c0@amigans> Simon wrote: > Please say me, how it works! I want to convert my VHS into mpg-Files, but it > doesn't work, only the Convertion of mpg to VHS works. For low-end conversion from VHS to MPG you can use a cheap TV card, such as those made by Pinaccle or Hauppage. This will allow you to view the analog signal of your video and record it as an AVI or MPG. I recommend http://www.tv-cards.com/ for more information -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide - the largest Amiga history site on the net http://amiga.emugaming.com | http://www.amigau.com/aig/index.html (new mirror, no popups!) From Darthsimon at aol.com Tue Jan 29 11:45:11 2002 From: Darthsimon at aol.com (Darthsimon@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: VHS to mpg, how does it work???? Message-ID: <7c.22036b74.298839a7@aol.com> VHS to mpg, how does it work???? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020129/c92fee50/attachment.html From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jan 29 12:13:53 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: VHS to mpg, how does it work???? Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E20A@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> -----Original Message----- From: Darthsimon@aol.com [mailto:Darthsimon@aol.com] > VHS to mpg, how does it work???? By converting the analog signal of the VHS recorder to a digital interleaved audio/video signal, and applying one of the MPEG compression algorithms. :) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From gknight at emugaming.com Tue Jan 29 13:11:03 2002 From: gknight at emugaming.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: VHS to mpg, how does it work???? References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E20A@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <000a01c1a8f8$b3146aa0$0d03a8c0@amigans> Christopher Smith wrote: > By converting the analog signal of the VHS recorder to a > digital interleaved audio/video signal, and applying one of > the MPEG compression algorithms. :) In other words, circular shapes through square holes! :) -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide - the largest Amiga history site on the net http://amiga.emugaming.com | http://www.amigau.com/aig/index.html (new mirror, no popups!) From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Jan 29 12:10:07 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: Looking for a M200 card reader WITH card weight Message-ID: <200201291810.MAA14764@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Does anyone here have a M200 card reader with the card weight? What I need is a good picture of the card weight, so I can attempt to obtain one for my card reader. Yes, there are people who have these card weights available, but its extremely difficult to describe something I havent seen for 20 years myself, just using words ;) -Lawrence LeMay From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jan 29 12:48:45 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: Looking for a M200 card reader WITH card weight References: <200201291810.MAA14764@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3C56EE8D.45752164@jetnet.ab.ca> Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > Does anyone here have a M200 card reader with the card weight? What I need is > a good picture of the card weight, so I can attempt to obtain one for my > card reader. Yes, there are people who have these card weights available, > but its extremely difficult to describe something I havent seen for 20 years > myself, just using words ;) > > -Lawrence LeMay Use a ROCK... Since a Card reader is a stoneage device! :) -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From fernande at internet1.net Tue Jan 29 12:14:31 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: 10-pin RS/6000 serial cables available References: Message-ID: <3C56E687.D4559E78@internet1.net> ME Me Me, I want one or two!! I'm not sure what to do with the Din 8, but hopefully this will help me in hooking up a console to my RS6000!! It has these wierd serail ports, that should coonect with the 10-pin side of these cables. Anybody know of an easy way to go from Din 8 to a standard DB25 or db9.... or maybe I could use a Mac as a console? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA "r. 'bear' stricklin" wrote: > > Hey, based on what some folks were saying on list earlier in the month, I > grabbed a small quantity of RS/6000 cables, which I'm offering for my cost > ($2) plus shipping. > > FRU 74F3135 > > 10-pin ("dual5") plug <-> miniDIN-8 > > I can't speculate as to what its original purpose might've been, but > perhaps some of you might find it useful for your older RS/6000s. > > ok > r. From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 29 13:09:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: 10-pin RS/6000 serial cables available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > > Hey, based on what some folks were saying on list earlier in the month, I > grabbed a small quantity of RS/6000 cables, which I'm offering for my cost > ($2) plus shipping. How long are they? Unless it's one of their famous 40lb, 25' serial cables, I'll take one. Doc From sipke at wxs.nl Tue Jan 29 12:22:50 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: Here I Am References: <200201230614.g0N6EfB10238@narnia.int.dittman.net><006901c1a417$40af06e0$0101a8c0@jay> <4.3.2.7.2.20020129220159.02f39330@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <005301c1a8f1$f6854b80$030101ac@boll.casema.net> It's amazing how stable the win$ucks platform is given the principle that it does not reclaim allocated memory back to the OS if it is not absolutly certain it's safe! Ok, you're left with a memory leak there, but you can always reboot the bastard every other day ;=) stability will go quite a few microsecs this way ................ Sipke de Wal ------------------------------------------------------------ http://xgistor.ath.cx ------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: Huw Davies To: Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 12:03 PM Subject: Re: Here I Am > At 07:38 AM 23/01/2002 -0700, emanuel stiebler wrote: > >Jay West wrote: > > > > > > There is something to be said for not just trying to > > > run on everything under the sun - and that directly translates into > > > stability of the OS. > > > >So, suddenly windows runs stable, just because they support x86 only ? > > Well NT on Alpha was significantly more stable than NT on Intel mainly > because there were only a limited number of supported (or even available) > configurations. What amazes me about Windows is not that it crashes often > but that it runs at all given the mix of hardware that it attempts to support. > > Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au > | "If God had wanted soccer played in the > | air, the sky would be painted green" > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jan 29 12:28:58 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: <20020129140851.45405.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: How many people on this list still have their 1st computer? second? third? every computer you ever used/owned? The first computer I ever used was a IBM 360 via punched cards in Fortran. First I ever sat in front of and worked on directly was an IBM 1130 via selectric console running a French version of APL. First I ever owned was a Apple II, which I still have. Same for the next five I owned/used; Mac Plus, Mac IIx, Mac 7200/90, Starmax 4160, and my Athlon based PC. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Jan 29 12:29:23 2002 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: a VAX 11/780 in my garage ... In-Reply-To: <3C563EB4.9030103@aurora.regenstrief.org> References: <3C563EB4.9030103@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <200201291829.NAA02748@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > The last board is a 919 UNIBUS connector with long cable connecting > into another drawer. That one is a backplane of unknown nature. It > has one card to play the UNIBUS adapter, then a whole bunch of > MEGATEK cards all together making up a frame-buffer and digitizer > assembly that was used for a SCICARDS circuit layout system. Any > shred of information about this would be appreciated. I don't think > its UNIBUS or QBUS (no grants between the two clusters of cards.) Quite likely. I know in years past, I worked with a unibus VAX that had a drum transparency scanner attached. (It was a really nice scanner, too; if I'd had hardware interface docs and space, I'd've snagged it on its way out.) This is relevant because the interface to it consisted of a section of what looked like unibus backplane that had been completely rewired (or perhaps it started as bare card-edge connectors and calling it _re_wired is inappropriate :-). There were a half-dozen or so boards that had to be plugged into this special section of backplane, each in the right slot. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if your framebuffer/digitizer was done similarly. Ah, working with the 780 and 750. Those were the days. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 29 13:16:18 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: a VAX 11/780 in my garage ... In-Reply-To: <200201291829.NAA02748@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20020129191618.79866.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> --- der Mouse wrote: > > The last board is a 919 UNIBUS connector with long cable connecting > > into another drawer. That one is a backplane of unknown nature... > > Quite likely. I know in years past, I worked with a unibus VAX that > had a drum transparency scanner attached... looked like unibus backplane > that had been completely rewired (or perhaps it started as bare card-edge > connectors and calling it _re_wired is inappropriate :-). There were a > half-dozen or so boards that had to be plugged into this special > section of backplane, each in the right slot. > > It wouldn't surprise me a bit if your framebuffer/digitizer was done > similarly. A friend of mine built a framebuffer for an 11/780 like that in the late 1970s or early 1980s at Cranston-Csuri Graphics - 1 or 2MB of small RAM chips and miles of wire-wrap wire. They did lots of sports animations for grabbing your attention in commercials and between-segment spots as well as the rotating wire-frame building at the start of "Overdrawn At The Memory Bank", a Canadian production starring Raul Julia. The building is the Huntington Bank building in Downtown Columbus, OH. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jan 29 12:40:46 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: TV tuner cards... [was: RE: hey"!] Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146757C@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Gareth Knight [mailto:gknight@emugaming.com] ! ! Simon wrote: ! > Please say me, how it works! I want to convert my VHS into ! > mpg-Files, but it ! > doesn't work, only the Convertion of mpg to VHS works. ! ! For low-end conversion from VHS to MPG you can use a cheap TV ! card, such as ! those made by Pinaccle or Hauppage. This will allow you to ! view the analog ! signal of your video and record it as an AVI or MPG. I recommend ! http://www.tv-cards.com/ for more information ! -- ! Gareth Knight You know, I should pick up one of those, so I can have a display for my C128 (and Atari800) on my Win98 box. Finally put it to something useful... Seriously, is anyone else doing that? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From PasserM at umkc.edu Tue Jan 29 13:10:57 2002 From: PasserM at umkc.edu (Passer, Michael W.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: TV tuner cards... [was: RE: hey"!] Message-ID: I've done it with an Atari 2600. Works great (this was with a Gateway OEM Bt848 card.) --Michael -----Original Message----- From: David Woyciesjes [mailto:DAW@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 12:41 PM To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Subject: TV tuner cards... [was: RE: hey"!] ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Gareth Knight [mailto:gknight@emugaming.com] ! ! Simon wrote: ! > Please say me, how it works! I want to convert my VHS into ! > mpg-Files, but it ! > doesn't work, only the Convertion of mpg to VHS works. ! ! For low-end conversion from VHS to MPG you can use a cheap TV ! card, such as ! those made by Pinaccle or Hauppage. This will allow you to ! view the analog ! signal of your video and record it as an AVI or MPG. I recommend ! http://www.tv-cards.com/ for more information ! -- ! Gareth Knight You know, I should pick up one of those, so I can have a display for my C128 (and Atari800) on my Win98 box. Finally put it to something useful... Seriously, is anyone else doing that? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From gknight at emugaming.com Tue Jan 29 13:14:00 2002 From: gknight at emugaming.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: TV tuner cards... [was: RE: hey"!] References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146757C@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <001101c1a8f9$1c5d8aa0$0d03a8c0@amigans> David Woyciesjes > You know, I should pick up one of those, so I can have a display for > my C128 (and Atari800) on my Win98 box. Finally put it to something > useful... > Seriously, is anyone else doing that? I tried it on my Amiga last year. The picture quality isn't brilliant, at least on the low-end models, and there was some interference. Useable if you don't have a TV. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide - the largest Amiga history site on the net http://amiga.emugaming.com | http://www.amigau.com/aig/index.html (new mirror, no popups!) From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jan 29 13:39:35 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: TV tuner cards... [was: RE: hey"!] Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146757D@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Anybody got one for sale? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 90581 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash > ---------- > From: Passer, Michael W. > Reply To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 2:10 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: TV tuner cards... [was: RE: hey"!] > > I've done it with an Atari 2600. Works great (this was with a Gateway > OEM Bt848 card.) > > --Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Woyciesjes [mailto:DAW@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 12:41 PM > To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' > Subject: TV tuner cards... [was: RE: hey"!] > > > ! -----Original Message----- > ! From: Gareth Knight [mailto:gknight@emugaming.com] > ! > ! Simon wrote: > ! > Please say me, how it works! I want to convert my VHS into > ! > mpg-Files, but it > ! > doesn't work, only the Convertion of mpg to VHS works. > ! > ! For low-end conversion from VHS to MPG you can use a cheap TV > ! card, such as > ! those made by Pinaccle or Hauppage. This will allow you to > ! view the analog > ! signal of your video and record it as an AVI or MPG. I recommend ! > http://www.tv-cards.com/ for more information ! -- ! Gareth Knight > > You know, I should pick up one of those, so I can have a display > for my C128 (and Atari800) on my Win98 box. Finally put it to something > useful... > Seriously, is anyone else doing that? > > --- David A Woyciesjes > --- C & IS Support Specialist > --- Yale University Press > --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu > --- (203) 432-0953 > --- ICQ # - 905818 > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 29 12:51:41 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: Need info: Applied Microsystems 8080/8085 Diagnostic Emulator Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020129135141.007df530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone know anything about the item above? I've seen these before but this is the first one that I've found with the pod and this one seems to work. I've posted a picture at . I know it's big but I wanted to capture as much detail as possible. joe From sieler at allegro.com Tue Jan 29 13:20:42 2002 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: '70s microcomputer video connectors (was Re: Bell & Howell Apple II update II) In-Reply-To: <200201282216.g0SMGFS64390@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <3C56858A.8861.1289B9FA@localhost> Re: > I'm certain I've seen Processor Technology SOLs with SO-259 > connectors. Yes...I've got one at my office. Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From foo at siconic.com Tue Jan 29 04:57:44 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Mike Ford wrote: > How many people on this list still have their 1st computer? second? third? > every computer you ever used/owned? I still have my second, an Apple ][+ I bought secondhand in 1984. If I would have realized how much I would've missed my first (a Mattel Aquarius) I would have kept it also. I've kept everyone since then (even my old work PC, which is in use in my guest bedroom). > The first computer I ever used was a IBM 360 via punched cards in > Fortran. You got me beat by a couple decades and several computer generations :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Jan 29 04:51:43 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: Need info: Applied Microsystems 8080/8085 Diagnostic Emulator In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020129135141.007df530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Joe wrote: > Does anyone know anything about the item above? I've seen these before > but this is the first one that I've found with the pod and this one seems > to work. I've posted a picture at > . I know it's big but I wanted > to capture as much detail as possible. I have one, and I think I have the manual for it. Want a copy? E-mail me off-list. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jan 29 13:51:06 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: Shameless Plug! In-Reply-To: Re: Shameless Plug! (Joe) References: <200201282151090073.14CF7D44@192.168.42.129> <3.0.6.32.20020129100554.007d3c80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <15446.64810.334025.439751@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 29, Joe wrote: > > Hey...On your other auction, the one for the transmission test > >set...In the leftmost rack in the background, at the top...Would that > >happen to be a TrueTime GPS, WWVB, or GOES time standard? I think I > >recognize the color and the rack handle. :) > > I have two GEOS time standards but I need antennas for them. Any idea > where I can find some? cheap? It's a circularly polarized signal so it's > not your typical antenna. Nope, I'm looking for one myself. :-( I will let you know if I find any, but I've all but given up. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jan 29 13:54:21 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146757E@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > ---------- > From: Doc > > On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > > I wonder, what kind/size drive is in there? Can it be upgraded? > > AFAIK, standard 2.5" IDE. John ain't shy about disassembling his > toys, and the last resort idea was to pull the hdd, put it in a > desktop, install Linux, and put it back, so I bet it's IDE. > Hmmm, Probably could stick it into my Multia, which could run NT from a SCSI drive, stick stuff on that way. Hey, if it's a standard 2.5" IDE (a.k.a. laptop) drive, what's stopping us from sticking in something bigger capacity? I can't remember what the HDD size limit is in DOS 5.0... > > It is a Neat Thing, isn' tit? Let me know if I can be of help. I have > the > > null modem cable, floppy drive, 2 power supplies... > > Didn't know there was a floppy option available.... But that would be > cheating. The challenge that started the flame war (which, of course, I > avoided completely... not) was how to make it boot a Linux kernel & > pcmcia drivers without floppy drive or CD.... > > Doc > Yep. The floppy plugs into the funny looking parallel port in the back of the Handbook, and gives you a regular parallel port, and a second serial port. I also have the battery pack that holds 6 AA batteries to power it. My two NiCd battery packs for it are dead though... Can't hold a charge really anymore. One shows a red light, instead of the amber "charging" or green "charged" light. --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 90581 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 29 13:47:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: FA: George Philbrick tube type Op-Amp for analog "computors". Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020129144701.007cd490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> See . From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 29 13:37:50 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:20 2005 Subject: Is this a IBM RT mouse? In-Reply-To: from "Doc" at Jan 28, 2 08:06:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 702 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020129/da304910/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 29 13:41:27 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Need source for high current HP type (with dimple) 14 or 16AWG In-Reply-To: <015601c1a86f$42db7780$98469280@Y5F3Q8> from "Robert Schaefer" at Jan 28, 2 09:37:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1125 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020129/e3e26c4e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 29 13:51:03 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Shameless Plug! In-Reply-To: <15446.15143.685686.295877@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Jan 29, 2 01:03:19 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1871 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020129/fb37a56a/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 29 14:49:17 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Shameless Plug! In-Reply-To: <15446.64810.334025.439751@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <200201282151090073.14CF7D44@192.168.42.129> <3.0.6.32.20020129100554.007d3c80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020129154917.0079e100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:51 PM 1/29/02 -0500, Dave wrote: >On January 29, Joe wrote: >> > Hey...On your other auction, the one for the transmission test >> >set...In the leftmost rack in the background, at the top...Would that >> >happen to be a TrueTime GPS, WWVB, or GOES time standard? I think I >> >recognize the color and the rack handle. :) >> >> I have two GEOS time standards but I need antennas for them. Any idea >> where I can find some? cheap? It's a circularly polarized signal so it's >> not your typical antenna. > > Nope, I'm looking for one myself. :-( I will let you know if I >find any, but I've all but given up. I did some searching on the net and came up with the formulas and other information about how to build one but I haven't had the time to work on it. Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 29 14:04:33 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) In-Reply-To: <20020129141525.99243.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jan 29, 2 06:15:25 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2818 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020129/9a3e5d72/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 29 14:07:36 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066324@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> from "Carlini, Antonio" at Jan 29, 2 06:43:42 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 895 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020129/da75d9c0/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jan 29 14:09:40 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Here I Am In-Reply-To: Re: Here I Am (Huw Davies) References: <200201230614.g0N6EfB10238@narnia.int.dittman.net> <006901c1a417$40af06e0$0101a8c0@jay> <4.3.2.7.2.20020129220159.02f39330@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <15447.388.694553.464502@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 29, Huw Davies wrote: > > > There is something to be said for not just trying to > > > run on everything under the sun - and that directly translates into > > > stability of the OS. > > > >So, suddenly windows runs stable, just because they support x86 only ? > > Well NT on Alpha was significantly more stable than NT on Intel mainly > because there were only a limited number of supported (or even available) > configurations. What amazes me about Windows is not that it crashes often > but that it runs at all given the mix of hardware that it attempts to support. The BSDs and Linux support tons of hardware too...and they're more stable than windows will ever be. I think the simple fact remains...windows just sucks. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Jan 29 14:10:27 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: TV tuner cards... [was: RE: hey"!] In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146757D@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <200201292010.OAA16792@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Ebay has a listing category JUST for TV tuner cards, so you know they always have a lot of em available. I use the Pinacle Studio Pro card. I have been using it to record cable TV shows, then later converting/compressing the HUGE files. You need to realize a few things though: 1) The file size is HUGE. My card saves the video as AVI, which is good, but I use Windows 98se, which has a 2Gig file size limit. And yes, that 2Gig limit per file is a big problem. Once the file is compressed, its nowhere near that big, but still it can be difficult to record a 2 hour movie since i hit the limit right about then. And when I hit the limit, poof, the file is worthless (gotta love windows, eh?). 2) The video capture resolution is very low (320x240). So its only capturing every other scan line, and its capturing only half the horizontal resolution in order to compensate. In other words, only about 1/4th of the video image data is being captured. 3) These cards really bang on the PCI bus. Dont plan on touching the computer or running any other applications while recording. if you do, the number of frames that are dropped will increase, and the video playback will then be very poor at the spots where you were running netscape or whatnot. 4) If you get a cheap card that supports video capture better than 320x240, you forgot to read the fine print. That better resolution is for grabbing a single frame only. There are expensive cards that supposedly can do 640x480, one of these days I might just plunk down a few hundred to find out... All in all, it is kinda fun to capture an hour of Enterprise, edit out the commercials and compress the remaining 45 minutes of video, then burn about 3 shows onto a CDrom... The data compressing part is where you wish you had a raid, and a very fast AMD processor. -Lawrence LeMay > Anybody got one for sale? > > --- David A Woyciesjes > > > ---------- > > From: Passer, Michael W. > > Subject: RE: TV tuner cards... [was: RE: hey"!] > > > > I've done it with an Atari 2600. Works great (this was with a Gateway > > OEM Bt848 card.) > > > > --Michael > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: David Woyciesjes [mailto:DAW@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu] > > Subject: TV tuner cards... [was: RE: hey"!] > > > > ! -----Original Message----- > > ! From: Gareth Knight [mailto:gknight@emugaming.com] > > ! > > ! Simon wrote: > > ! > Please say me, how it works! I want to convert my VHS into > > ! > mpg-Files, but it > > ! > doesn't work, only the Convertion of mpg to VHS works. > > ! > > ! For low-end conversion from VHS to MPG you can use a cheap TV > > ! card, such as > > ! those made by Pinaccle or Hauppage. This will allow you to > > ! view the analog > > ! signal of your video and record it as an AVI or MPG. I recommend ! > > http://www.tv-cards.com/ for more information ! -- ! Gareth Knight > > > > You know, I should pick up one of those, so I can have a display > > for my C128 (and Atari800) on my Win98 box. Finally put it to something > > useful... > > Seriously, is anyone else doing that? > > > > --- David A Woyciesjes From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Jan 29 15:00:13 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: OT: Re: TV tuner cards... [was: RE: hey"!] In-Reply-To: <200201292010.OAA16792@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > 4) If you get a cheap card that supports video capture better than > 320x240, you forgot to read the fine print. That better resolution is > for grabbing a single frame only. There are expensive cards that > supposedly can do 640x480, one of these days I might just plunk down a > few hundred to find out... I have an IOMega Buz.. a few years old, and it's always done 640x480 video capture just fine. It uses a hardware-based MJPEG (motion jpeg) codec, so it's not consuming 6M of space per second of video, and the quality is there. The main problem (and why IOMega discontinued it) is that it's not quite compatible with some motherboards. Being PCI, it works fine though in a Mac, as long as you get their Mac drivers for it. Like I said, I've never had troubles, and using Linux I don't have to worry about a 2G file size limit . I got it on eBay a couple years ago for $80-ish, and I'm sure you could find one for much less than that now... -- Pat From allain at panix.com Tue Jan 29 15:30:34 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: TV tuner cards... [was: RE: hey"!] References: <200201292010.OAA16792@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <028f01c1a90c$38617fa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> BTW the modern method, which I do not have, is to get a digital camcorder with "firewire" and the same for your PC, and just download. Apparently the camcorder stores in MPEG. John A. From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Jan 29 14:32:08 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Going OT: mpegging shows (was: TV tuner cards... In-Reply-To: <200201292010.OAA16792@caesar.cs.umn.edu> References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146757D@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020129153208.01285cd8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Lawrence LeMay may have mentioned these words: >1) The file size is HUGE. My card saves the video as AVI, which is good, >but I use Windows 98se, which has a 2Gig file size limit. And yes, that >2Gig limit per file is a big problem. Once the file is compressed, its nowhere >near that big, but still it can be difficult to record a 2 hour movie >since i hit the limit right about then. And when I hit the limit, poof, >the file is worthless (gotta love windows, eh?). Eeewww... :-( >2) The video capture resolution is very low (320x240). So its only capturing >every other scan line, and its capturing only half the horizontal resolution >in order to compensate. In other words, only about 1/4th of the video >image data is being captured. Eeewww... :-( [snippage] >All in all, it is kinda fun to capture an hour of Enterprise, edit out >the commercials and compress the remaining 45 minutes of video, then burn >about 3 shows onto a CDrom... The data compressing part is where you wish you >had a raid, and a very fast AMD processor. Now, if you're looking to archive TV shows to VCD/SVCD, the best way (for a hardware hacking standpoint, anyway) is to get youself a standalone TiVo unit (not Sony - go for Philips), preferably an older one with a small hard drive so you can upgrade it yourself, get a TivoNet setup so you can install your own network card, and let the Tivo do the recording & just download it onto your nice fast dual Athlon machine [remember that dual athlon machine I caught hell for recently? This is what I use it for...], transcode the video to fit on an SVCD, and enjoy 2200kbps 480x480 resolution shows trimmed of commercials on your SVCD-capable DVD player. Wanna know how I do it? Go here: http://www.30below.com/~zmerch/tivo/index.cfm it's long -- it's ugly -- but I've had a lot of folks use it to get TV shows onto SVCD. 'Nuff said, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 29 14:10:45 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help In-Reply-To: <20020129145057.85358.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jan 29, 2 06:50:57 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1580 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020129/6b0d2fa1/attachment.ksh From allain at panix.com Tue Jan 29 15:25:26 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help References: Message-ID: <026f01c1a90b$8124ede0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > The VT100 ... would eat flyback transformers Can the flybacks or Display Tubes (Display Valve?) be replaced with modern parts? John A. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 29 15:37:56 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help In-Reply-To: <026f01c1a90b$8124ede0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Jan 29, 2 04:25:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1490 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020129/5bbba431/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jan 29 14:12:44 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: a VAX 11/780 in my garage ... In-Reply-To: Re: a VAX 11/780 in my garage ... (Andreas Freiherr) References: <3C563EB4.9030103@aurora.regenstrief.org> <15446.16329.254387.639479@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3C56AC92.42422BA6@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <15447.572.814425.807608@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 29, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > This is just about right for a PDP-11/34A, a PDP-11/23, and a > Micro-PDP-11/23PLUS and their peripherals, such as LA36 and LA120 > printing terminals, and two-and-a-half 19" racks of diskette (8", of > course, what'd you think? ;^), disk, and tape drives. Not much left to > feed a MicroVAX, however - sigh... Pictures! Pictures!! -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Jan 29 14:29:48 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: a VAX 11/780 in my garage ... Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706632A@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> I wrote : >There's a bunch of manuals up already at: > http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm > >I've already let them have a few more ... the install And now that I look, it seems that the latest stuff I sent popped up today! So the HW UG, Diag guide and one (of the many?) install guides are now there. (I should point out that all I did was scan them - the credit goes to Alain Nierveze who photocopied them and posted them my way). Antonio From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Jan 29 14:18:16 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Looking for a M200 card reader WITH card weight In-Reply-To: <3C56EE8D.45752164@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <200201292018.OAA19151@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Well, considering my card reader can only manage to move the first card about 1/8 of an inch at most before generating a pick check, the rock might not be entirely out of order :) Ah well, someday i'll have time to see if i can repair it. -Lawrence LeMay > Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > > Does anyone here have a M200 card reader with the card weight? What I need is > > a good picture of the card weight, so I can attempt to obtain one for my > > card reader. Yes, there are people who have these card weights available, > > but its extremely difficult to describe something I havent seen for 20 years > > myself, just using words ;) > > > > -Lawrence LeMay > > Use a ROCK... Since a Card reader is a stoneage device! :) > > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > From quapla at xs4all.nl Tue Jan 29 15:01:51 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Looking for a M200 card reader WITH card weight References: <200201292018.OAA19151@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3C570DBF.6829BA33@xs4all.nl> Lawrence, I have a M200 too. I'll make a picture of the card weight and email it to you, it may take a 2 or 2 to get it made. I had a little problem with my reader as well, 2 of the rubber wheels were turned into a tar like mass, but I found somebody who will machine 2 replacements for me. Regards, Ed Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > Well, considering my card reader can only manage to move the first card > about 1/8 of an inch at most before generating a pick check, the rock > might not be entirely out of order :) Ah well, someday i'll have time to > see if i can repair it. > > -Lawrence LeMay > > > Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone here have a M200 card reader with the card weight? What I need is > > > a good picture of the card weight, so I can attempt to obtain one for my > > > card reader. Yes, there are people who have these card weights available, > > > but its extremely difficult to describe something I havent seen for 20 years > > > myself, just using words ;) > > > > > > -Lawrence LeMay > > > > Use a ROCK... Since a Card reader is a stoneage device! :) > > > > -- > > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > > -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Kilometerheffing : De overheid '97 TL1000S | weet waar je bent geweest! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 29 14:19:41 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: IRIS Power Series power supply questions In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1FA@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> from "Christopher Smith" at Jan 29, 2 09:48:15 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1470 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020129/f9898bee/attachment.ksh From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jan 29 14:24:59 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Gateway Handbook [was: RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)] Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146757F@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > > I wonder, what kind/size drive is in there? Can it be upgraded? > > ---------- > From: Doc > > AFAIK, standard 2.5" IDE. John ain't shy about disassembling his > toys, and the last resort idea was to pull the hdd, put it in a > desktop, install Linux, and put it back, so I bet it's IDE. > > ---------- > From: David Woyciesjes > > Hmmm, Probably could stick it into my Multia, which could run NT from a > SCSI drive, stick stuff on that way. Hey, if it's a standard 2.5" IDE > (a.k.a. laptop) drive, what's stopping us from sticking in something > bigger capacity? I can't remember what the HDD size limit is in DOS 5.0... > > ---------- Well, I got curious and cracked mine open... According to the User's Guide, it is IDE. And it is 2.5" size. Except one neat difference. To take care of the height restriction inside the case, they moved the drive controller board to _behind_ the drive, taken out from under it...So now it's physical size is 2.75" x 0.375"(3/8") x 6". Looks like just a special board, on a standard drive case. BTW, it's a JVC Model JDF2042M10-1. I'll have to Google that later, and see if I can find more info... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 90581 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From dogas at bellsouth.net Tue Jan 29 14:52:13 2002 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Need info: Applied Microsystems 8080/8085 Diagnostic Emulator References: <3.0.6.32.20020129135141.007df530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <004701c1a906$d4f50590$9ddb3fd0@DOMAIN> Hyya Joe, > Does anyone know anything about the item above? I've seen these before > but this is the first one that I've found with the pod and this one seems > to work. I've posted a picture at > . I know it's big but I wanted > to capture as much detail as possible. > I've got one almost like it for the 6809/6809e, the EM-189 Diagnostic Emulator. I've got a manual for mine. Check this out: ...the basic function of the [] is to emulate the target system microporcessor. Effectively, the DE is a pin-compatible functional replacement for the microporcessor in the target system. The unit is designed to meet the tiuming specifications of the emulated processor and to minimize the increase in electrical loading of the user's system. It is always in one of two modes: RUN and PAUSE. If in the RUN mode. it is emulating the target system microprocessor and executing the target system program at full system speed. The Trace Memory will be active (unless unhibited by external control or trace hold) and all bus cycles of the emulated microprocessor are recorded for possible later display. In PAUSE mode, the target system is suspended and you can examine/alter memory and regisers and review target's execution history... They can also be configured with Overlay RAM blocks and firmware disassemblers, etc... Cool toy! ;) - Mike From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jan 29 15:12:01 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Gateway Handbook [was: RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola? )] Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467582@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Got the Handbook all together, no extra parts or screws laying around, wait a minute... ..except for the darned plastic/foil sleeve that the HDD is supposed to be in!!! Grrr..... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 90581 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From dogas at bellsouth.net Tue Jan 29 15:22:55 2002 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Old 9-track tape data References: <200201281655.g0SGtQ906770@morse.Colorado.EDU> <3C56C3FF.8020900@aurora.regenstrief.org> <3C56DE4B.9CB7189A@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <006501c1a90b$31dc9a80$9ddb3fd0@DOMAIN> From: emanuel stiebler > > So, who are the other two guys in Denver ? Help. I recently scored two IBM 9348-001 9-track units from a big AS400/9406 system. I'll publish my 'can-opener' technique for drive removal if anyone's interested. ;) They look like great drives. I flipped the fuse holder over to 120v when I got them home and they both breathed again. I guess I now need a differential SCSI card too for my wintel box, and I'd like to know what software or configurations others are using for i/o with these beasts. On a side note, I may have some interesting 'data' on a few reels and (qic-1000, I think) carts for the AS400/9406-320 if anyone's interested. ;) Thanks - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From gknight at emugaming.com Tue Jan 29 15:33:55 2002 From: gknight at emugaming.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: DesqView References: <3C558C16.31906.8678E5E@localhost> Message-ID: <003101c1a90c$a8190c00$0d03a8c0@amigans> No wonder has mentioned this, so I thought I would throw it into the Classic mixer: http://slashdot.org/articles/02/01/27/1950244.shtml Quote: "It seems Symantec (purchasers of former company Quarterdeck) has release DeskView/X into public domain and can be downloaded now. DesqView/X was a GUI and OS extender that installed into DOS very much like MS Windows does. This little GUI can run X-Windows and MS Windows 3.x software and can even gateway serve MS Windows applications to remote X terminals. It was way ahead of its time and is a pretty decent toy to play with if you have a old 486 laying around. Anyways there is a petition being started that is petitioning Symantec to release the source code as OpenSource. I think this is a really good idea and could possiably help alot of other existing projects like WINE for example. It can load X and rexec X apps with 16mb RAM for Pete sakes!" -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide - the largest Amiga history site on the net http://amiga.emugaming.com | http://www.amigau.com/aig/index.html (new mirror, no popups!) From out2sea00 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 29 15:59:11 2002 From: out2sea00 at yahoo.com (Colin Eby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: S/36Docs( as Re: S/370 docs (was: Re: IBM big iron.)) Message-ID: <20020129215911.42590.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com> Steve Subject: Re: S/370 docs (was: Re: IBM big iron.) > have a stack of /36 docs that I'd like to part with. Please, please, please ! I've been out here begging for just these docs (and disks if they can be had). I'm working on reviving a 5362 right now. Please reply off list with whatever persuasion is required to at least allow me the use of them. I'd be very happy to scan them all and make them available. Thanks, Colin Eby Senior Consulant CSC Consulting out2sea00@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Jan 29 15:04:53 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Hayes Micromodem II / microcoupler (was: Re: Is this a IBM RT mouse?) In-Reply-To: Sellam Ismail's message of "Tue, 29 Jan 2002 10:23:15 +0000 (UTC)" References: Message-ID: <200201292104.g0TL4rj05693@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Sellam Ismail wrote: > Oh yeah? Well, I've got the original Hayes modem product: the DC Hayes > modem for the S-100 bus :) Hayes made two modems for the S-100 bus. The first (ca. 1978) was the 80-103A, the second was the Micromodem 100 (using the same Microcoupler as the original Micromodem II for the Apple). -Frank McConnell From philpem at btinternet.com Tue Jan 29 16:03:29 2002 From: philpem at btinternet.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Sharp CE-515P - need more pens! (also: Multitech MPF) Message-ID: <02fa01c1a910$c9808ae0$14507ad5@phoenix> Hi, A few of you might remember my Sharp CE-515P plotter. Well, my pens are almost completely devoid of ink and I need more. I know All Electronics sell a pack of 4x black pens, but I'm after the four coloured ones (blue, green, red and black). I'd really like to keep this thing running, but if I can't get the pens then I'm afraid I'm going to have to relegate it to the cupboard... Alternatively, if someone wants to donate a working flatbed (preferably A3-size) plotter to my collection... BTW, anyone got a Monitor ROM dump, memory map, schematic diagram, etc for the Multitech MPF-IB or MPF-I (the one with the green starburst display)? I'd like to have a go at rebuilding one. Just for the hell of it :-) Later. -- Phil. philpem@bigfoot.com http://www.philpem.btinternet.co.uk/ From wilby98 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 29 14:05:26 2002 From: wilby98 at yahoo.com (William S.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: ; from mikeford@socal.rr.com on Tue, Jan 29, 2002 at 10:28:58AM -0800 References: <20020129140851.45405.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020129210521.A25997@xs4all.nl> The first computer I ever owned was a Commodore64. I don't have it anymore. I ended up throwing it out. I was _not_ a member of this list then or I would have kept it or offered it to someone. Not sure if an HP-45 calculator counts as a "computer", but I had that in college. I used it for several years even when the battery died out and couldn't be replaced (used it on the cord). Threw it out (again, not a member). I probably would have kept it if I could have had a replacement for the battery... (please don't tell me there is.. sigh). Then, I had a vt100 terminal connected to a 1200 baud external modem. I used that to dial in to a BBS. I don't have that anymore. My first PC, is the one I am typing at now: Micron Millennia MMx, P166MMX. I now have several Apollo's and several VAXen. Also, an IBM Thinkpad on the other side of the ocean waiting for me to pick up. My earliest experience with computers in college was at a printer terminal. It was 1973 at Merrimack College. I have no idea what it was connected to but I remember making a "program" to print out biorhythms. ---end of "flashback". Bill Amsterdam, NL On Tue, Jan 29, 2002 at 10:28:58AM -0800, Mike Ford wrote: > How many people on this list still have their 1st computer? second? third? > every computer you ever used/owned? > > The first computer I ever used was a IBM 360 via punched cards in Fortran. > > First I ever sat in front of and worked on directly was an IBM 1130 via > selectric console running a French version of APL. > > First I ever owned was a Apple II, which I still have. Same for the next > five I owned/used; Mac Plus, Mac IIx, Mac 7200/90, Starmax 4160, and my > Athlon based PC. > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 29 15:05:17 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: <20020129210521.A25997@xs4all.nl> from "William S." at Jan 29, 2 09:05:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1401 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020129/6a9ff6d6/attachment.ksh From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 29 14:07:50 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Mike Ford wrote: > How many people on this list still have their 1st computer? second? > third? every computer you ever used/owned? Well, my first computer was a C64, but my parents got rid of it many years ago. My second and third machines, both early AT clones met the same fate. All the machines I've owned since then I still own. > First I ever sat in front of and worked on directly was an IBM 1130 > via selectric console running a French version of APL. I've got one of those consoles that was converted by its former owner into a printer for a TRS-80 model 1. A very unique bit of hardware it seems. -Toth From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 29 14:16:11 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: References: <20020129140851.45405.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020129151611.007cf230@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:28 AM 1/29/02 -0800, Mike wrote: > >First I ever sat in front of and worked on directly was an IBM 1130 via >selectric console running a French version of APL. Exactly how does a French version of APL differ from a US version??? It's all Greek I also started out with APL on an 1130. Joe From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jan 29 14:29:28 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E20D@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Ford [mailto:mikeford@socal.rr.com] > How many people on this list still have their 1st computer? > second? third? > every computer you ever used/owned? Well, the first computer I used was an apple II+, and a IIe after that. I have one of each now, but not the same model. My parents owned a TRS-80 color computer, then a Sperry PC compatible machine, neither of which I have at this point. They also had a "Leading Technology" 386, and a Compaq 486, neither of which I would want, since I have my share of that class of machine. The first computer _I_ ever owned was an AT&T Unix PC, and yes, I still have that. You could say that was my introduction to collecting "classic computers." It was more than 10 years old by the time I got it, and required some work to get it running. It was rescued from the trash. Its name is "Sprite" -- so called after the drink, since its green screen contrasted sharply with all other computers I'd seen recently (at that time). I was just working on it over this last weekend. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de Tue Jan 29 14:29:58 2002 From: ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de (Michael Schneider) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1012336199.5757.7.camel@silke> The first REAL computer i have used was a CDC Cyber-7600 at the University of Stuttgart. I took a FORTRAN77 course, and we used punched cards. Actually, that's why i took the course... I never owned that one. My parents would not let me 8-) My first own computer was a 8085-based single board computer, with led output and hex keyboard, from a small german company named "Graf Electronik". That was in 1982. I still have that one (it works!), and, IIRC every single one i build or accuired later on. I am THE packrat, according to my wife... Except for some PC's, but they don't count, i think. ms On Tue, 2002-01-29 at 19:28, Mike Ford wrote: > How many people on this list still have their 1st computer? second? third? > every computer you ever used/owned? > > The first computer I ever used was a IBM 360 via punched cards in Fortran. > > First I ever sat in front of and worked on directly was an IBM 1130 via > selectric console running a French version of APL. > > First I ever owned was a Apple II, which I still have. Same for the next > five I owned/used; Mac Plus, Mac IIx, Mac 7200/90, Starmax 4160, and my > Athlon based PC. > > > -- Michael Schneider email: ms@vaxcluster.de Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de People disagree with me. I just ignore them. (Linus Torvalds) From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Jan 29 14:37:31 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions Message-ID: First computer used: ??, fed it punchcards to do an analysis of Melanesian blood groups at Harvard grad school, 1972. First computer owned: Osborne 1, 1981. My wife wanted me to get rid of it, so I stripped out the insides so my son could fiddle with the boards (he hasn't, so I still have them intact), and tossed the case. BTW, if anyone needs parts for an O1, DD, 80 column upgrade, contact me. 2nd computer owned: Otrona Attache 8:16 -- still have (and intend to keep for a while). 1st PC: An XT-Turbo clone (1986), which I installed in a smaller than normal cherry-stained plywood box, power supply uncased and hung over the motherboard, expansion slots running side-to-side rather than front-to-back; open frame 9" monitor, bare Cherry keyboard. Still have the CPU and keyboard, tossed the monitor. Latest computers acquired: Poqet PQ-0181, HP 95LX, HP 200LX (is there a pattern here?). Bob -----Original Message----- From: Mike Ford [mailto:mikeford@socal.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 12:29 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Packrat genome project questions How many people on this list still have their 1st computer? second? third? every computer you ever used/owned? The first computer I ever used was a IBM 360 via punched cards in Fortran. First I ever sat in front of and worked on directly was an IBM 1130 via selectric console running a French version of APL. First I ever owned was a Apple II, which I still have. Same for the next five I owned/used; Mac Plus, Mac IIx, Mac 7200/90, Starmax 4160, and my Athlon based PC. From marvin at rain.org Tue Jan 29 14:48:00 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions References: Message-ID: <3C570A80.45B1E078@rain.org> Mike Ford wrote: > > How many people on this list still have their 1st computer? second? third? > every computer you ever used/owned? My first computer (that *I* owned) was a Vector I that I still have. It was followed by the Corona PC400 that had been modified to include a 10 MB or 20 MB HD which I don't think I have anymore. And that was followed by a fairly complete Atari 400 system that I still have. From mythtech at Mac.com Tue Jan 29 14:49:17 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions Message-ID: >How many people on this list still have their 1st computer? second? third? >every computer you ever used/owned? The only computer I *owned* that I don't still have is my Lisa (it was a 2 I believe). All the others I still have, and are still operational (although not in use). Although, with the exception of my personal Mac SE, I can't say for 100% sure that the computers I have are the actual computers that were at my house growing up. There was much swapping between home and my father's company, so the ones I now have in my custody may actually have been company purchased ones, and not the "original" ones at my house (but they are all the same model... Apple II+, 128k Mac, Mac Plus and up from there) In addition, I still have in my custody at least one of every model/type of computer I have used on a regular basis (I don't count things that I sat down at somewhere, played with for 5 minutes, and then moved on). That includes things like an IBM 5110, IBM System 23, IBM PC, XT, AT, PCjr, Apple IIe, and up from there. The only things I used on a regular basis that I do NOT own (or more correctly, have in my custody, as technically I don't own things like the IBM 5110), are a Commodore PET, a Northstar (Advantage ?), and a Kaypro II. I doubt I will ever bother getting those (well, maybe a PET) because I am out of room, and have had to start to narrow down what I keep/collect... so things like a Commodore 64 was just passed on to someone else (although, someplace I have two more of them, just not complete systems like I just gave away... when I dig them up, I will pass them on as well) I also don't count things like the numurous, nameless, AT clones that have passed thru my hands... I lump them all into the "type" catagory, so my IBM AT counts for all the 286 and AT clones, and I have a 386, 486, and so on... but like some of the machines I have had to dump do to space, I will probably cease to worry about those, and narrow it down to just the ones I consider to be "cool". -chris From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 29 15:00:28 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Jan 29, 2 10:28:58 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 857 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020129/b3ddc132/attachment.ksh From allain at panix.com Tue Jan 29 15:02:33 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions References: Message-ID: <01f501c1a908$461e2de0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Such an open question, durnit! I'll spare some of the boring ones. 1: think-a-tron. Don't have it. See #2. 2: MiniVac601. Hmmm, a one bit adder. But you could do anything! To a six-year-old it was like Will Smith in "ID4". We didn't own it but it was the first "real" hw that made it into the house. Found one a while back. ---- school ---- 3: HP 25 doing funky machine language. Own now, not then. 4: IBM 3033 running MTS. Don't have. 5: IBM 5100 BASIC/APL on summer break. Still cant find one! 6: Prime 500/750 running Imlacs PDS'es. see #7 ---- after school ---- 7: PDP 11/34 running RSX-11M. Just got one last year. DEC stayed alive 10 years longer than Prime for good reason. After I got a chance to learn, DECs always seemed better . . . I'm sort of weight conscious. The next computer up was a VAX 11/780. MicroVaxes do suffice. . . . 30: IBM PVS running Mach Unix. Find That! . . . Yes, Stuff I used is definitely a collection focus. John A. From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Tue Jan 29 15:13:33 2002 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1f6rwbq.1w2k0pkx3bk44M%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> > How many people on this list still have their 1st computer? second? third? > every computer you ever used/owned? > 1980: Color Computer 1: Under my desk. It has 64K of RAM (started life with 4K) and an aftermarket keyboard. 1987: Color Computer 3: It is stitting here right next to me in fact. I use it often. 1990: Macintosh IIcx: In closet. Still works, it would be fun to boot up again. 1997: Macintosh 7300/200: My main machine. Getting a little dated. -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com "Life. Don't talk to me about life." - Marvin, the android From kapteynr at cboe.com Tue Jan 29 15:26:05 2002 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions Message-ID: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF0CE02BBA@msx1.cboe.com> I personally get attached to these things, and I have had access to lots of storage space. So I have every computer I ever owned, and they all work (last time I checked). The first I ever used was a PDP8-L running FOCAL that someone donated to my high school in 1974. When I went to another school, the Altair 8800 came out, and I got one right away. During college and work, I had access to DECs and mainframes. My next "personal" machine was a Fortune Systems 68000 based unix box. Then an Apple Mac II Powermac 6100 Now I am awash in various PCs and Macs. -Rob -----Original Message----- From: Mike Ford [SMTP:mikeford@socal.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 12:29 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Packrat genome project questions How many people on this list still have their 1st computer? second? third? every computer you ever used/owned? The first computer I ever used was a IBM 360 via punched cards in Fortran. First I ever sat in front of and worked on directly was an IBM 1130 via selectric console running a French version of APL. First I ever owned was a Apple II, which I still have. Same for the next five I owned/used; Mac Plus, Mac IIx, Mac 7200/90, Starmax 4160, and my Athlon based PC. From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Jan 29 15:54:54 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions References: Message-ID: <002301c1a90f$a38cc5c0$dc8f70d8@default> I still have the first machine(s) I purchased a VIC20, then a NorthStar (gone but replaced if that counts), Timex in box, then a COMPAQ luggable, next a COMPAQ 286 Desktop unit, then a Packard Bell 486sx, and after that several clones. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 12:28 PM Subject: Packrat genome project questions > How many people on this list still have their 1st computer? second? third? > every computer you ever used/owned? > > The first computer I ever used was a IBM 360 via punched cards in Fortran. > > First I ever sat in front of and worked on directly was an IBM 1130 via > selectric console running a French version of APL. > > First I ever owned was a Apple II, which I still have. Same for the next > five I owned/used; Mac Plus, Mac IIx, Mac 7200/90, Starmax 4160, and my > Athlon based PC. > > > From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jan 29 16:19:34 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: IRIS Power Series power supply questions Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E210@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Do any of the wires show a low resistance to the frame? If > so, then that > one must be earth (or there's an insulation breakdown somewhere). I'll check. Probably should have thought of that, myself. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From mythtech at Mac.com Tue Jan 29 16:19:36 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: TV tuner cards... [was: RE: hey"!] Message-ID: >BTW the modern method, which I do not have, >is to get a digital camcorder with "firewire" and >the same for your PC, and just download. >Apparently the camcorder stores in MPEG. The few times I have done it, I do similar to that. My camcorder has an anolog to digital passthru. So I can play an analog source (like a VHS tape), pass it into the camcorder, which passes it along to the firewire port and into my iMac. I then just use iMovie to capture it, and then export as Toast VCD format. Chews up a bit of space as iMovie only captures in DV format (which is freaking huge because it is supposed to be lossless), and I also need the additional space to store the VCD formated MPEG before burning, since I can't export directly to the burner. But it works for shorter clips (The longest I have tried is a 7 minute Tex Avery cartoon... but I could probably do up to an hour or so on my 60 gig drive... not sure) -chris From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 29 16:20:24 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Sharp CE-515P - need more pens! (also: Multitech MPF) In-Reply-To: <02fa01c1a910$c9808ae0$14507ad5@phoenix> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Philip Pemberton wrote: > A few of you might remember my Sharp CE-515P plotter. Well, my pens > are almost completely devoid of ink and I need more. I know All > Electronics sell a pack of 4x black pens, but I'm after the four > coloured ones (blue, green, red and black). I'd really like to keep > this thing running, but if I can't get the pens then I'm afraid I'm > going to have to relegate it to the cupboard... Sigh. I wish I had bought all those pens now :/ > Alternatively, if someone wants to donate a working flatbed > (preferably A3-size) plotter to my collection... The small HP flatbed plotters turn up here in local auctions quite often. Email me off list if you have anything specific you are looking for. I don't know what it would take (or if it would be worthwhile) to ship one overseas tho. IIRC the smaller ones use a brick supply, so to operate the plotter on 240V, a replacement or custom supply would be required. -Toth From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jan 29 13:37:32 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions References: <20020129140851.45405.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20020129151611.007cf230@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3C56F9FC.7D1B6286@jetnet.ab.ca> Joe wrote: > > At 10:28 AM 1/29/02 -0800, Mike wrote: > > > > >First I ever sat in front of and worked on directly was an IBM 1130 via > >selectric console running a French version of APL. > > Exactly how does a French version of APL differ from a US version??? > It's all Greek > > I also started out with APL on an 1130. > > Joe Yuck! APL. Still the the IBM-1130 was a nice machine for its day. That was the first computer I used, not that often since I never took computer science. I ended up using a PDP-8 too. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 29 16:24:57 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > I probably would have kept it if I could have had a > > replacement for the battery... (please don't tell me > > there is.. sigh). > > There's no off-the-shelf replacement, but most HP calculator hackers > have learnt to crack open the plastic housing and replace the cells (3 > tagged AA NiCds in this pack). They sell those 3-cell AA NiCad packs here as replacements for cordless phones. I've often see them in local shops for $10-12. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 29 16:37:38 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: IRIS Power Series power supply questions In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E210@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > > > Do any of the wires show a low resistance to the frame? If > > so, then that > > one must be earth (or there's an insulation breakdown somewhere). > > I'll check. Probably should have thought of that, myself. :) Well, had a look at mine. Still got to sort out the pics I took, but the contact with the "hook" like edge that is bent in 90 deg. should be ground. The other two contacts should be brass and silver colored. The brass one is hot, the silver is neutral. If I can find a place to stick the pics I took up, you can see the breakdown of my 4D/310VGX (still in need of cleaning). Oh, and on this machine, the power cable inside the machine is shielded. The shield wire is crimped into the same terminals as the ground wire. -Toth From wpointon at earthlink.net Tue Jan 29 16:46:16 2002 From: wpointon at earthlink.net (bill pointon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00F32620-150A-11D6-9C9B-003065ED7126@earthlink.net> i still have my first -- a ti99-4a -- that i bought new in 1978? and almost all of the others since -- billp On Tuesday, January 29, 2002, at 05:57 , Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Mike Ford wrote: > >> How many people on this list still have their 1st computer? second? >> third? >> every computer you ever used/owned? > > I still have my second, an Apple ][+ I bought secondhand in 1984. If I > would have realized how much I would've missed my first (a Mattel > Aquarius) I would have kept it also. > > I've kept everyone since then (even my old work PC, which is in use in > my > guest bedroom). > >> The first computer I ever used was a IBM 360 via punched cards in >> Fortran. > > You got me beat by a couple decades and several computer generations :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * > From g-wright at worldnet.att.net Wed Jan 30 16:54:15 2002 From: g-wright at worldnet.att.net (g-wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:21 2005 Subject: Looking for a WD 1001 55 Disk controller Message-ID: <3C587997.A9A9139@worldnet.att.net> Hi I'm trying to get a Molecular going. it has Bad disk controller. WD 1001 55 Does anyone have one of theses that they can spare. I have 1000 series But there is a difference. E-mail me at address below Thanks, Jerry Jerry Wright JLC inc. g-wright@worldnet.att.net (new) From owad at applefritter.com Tue Jan 29 17:16:32 2002 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: IIgs Rom 1 vs Rom 3 In-Reply-To: <200201290318.TAA13042@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200201290318.TAA13042@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <20020129231632.421@mail.lafayette.edu> >> What is the difference between a Rom 1 and a Rom 3 Apple IIgs? > >Bug fixes (which affect mostly GS/OS) and I don't think ROM 01 GSes can >netboot. > >> I would guess they are Rom 1 and Rom 3 machines (I can tell by booting >> them right? the starting splash tells me? or how is it determined?). > >The startup screen says, yes. ROM 0 GSes don't say anything. > >Paging Tom Owad to verify this ... :-) ;) I'm going to be cowardly and just quote apple2history.org: "In September 1987 Apple made an incremental improvement to the IIGS with the release of a new ROM. The ROM 01 revision made a few changes in the original IIGS ROMs and included an improved video controller chip. Bugs in the ROM code were fixed, and a problem with a "pink fringe" effect with certain graphics displays was fixed. The new ROMs were not compatible with any IIGS System Disks earlier than version 2.0. The new ROM was identified by a message at the bottom of the screen when booting the IIGS that said "ROM Version 01". The original IIGS had no message in this location.[6] "The next change came with the release of the ROM 03 version of the IIGS in August of 1989. This new IIGS computer came standard with 1 meg of RAM on the motherboard, and twice as much ROM (256K versus 128K on the older IIGS). This allowed more of the operating system to be in ROM, rather than having to be loaded from disk when booting. Additionally, fixes were made to known bugs in the ROM 01 firmware. (The latest version of the IIGS system software made patches to ROM 01 to fix those bugs, but these patches still had to be loaded from disk, which slowed startup time. Having the latest new tools and fixed new ones already in ROM made booting the version 03 IIGS a bit quicker). The new Apple IIGS also had the capability of using both the internal slot firmware as well as using a peripheral card plugged into a slot. The ROM 01 IIGS could, of course, use cards plugged into the slots, but only at the expense of being unable to use the internal firmware for that slot. With so much useful system firmware built-in, a ROM 01 user who wanted, for example, to add a controller card for a hard disk would have to give up either AppleTalk in slot 7 or use of 5.25 disks in slot 6. Almost everything else had to be set in the control panel to the internal firmware. "The ROM 03 IIGS also included enhancements for disabled users. A feature called "sticky keys" made it possible to do multiple keypresses. (To execute an "Option-Control-X" sequence, for example, required pressing three keys at once. This was something that a paralyzed user with a mouth-stick to press keys could not previously do). Also, more things that had required a mouse now had keyboard equivalents (using the keypad). The new IIGS also had somewhat "cleaner" sound and graphics. However, because the improvements made were minimal compared to the cost of providing upgrades to previous owners, no upgrade program was announced by Apple. In any case, many of the new features could be obtained on older IIGS's by upgrading the memory to at least one megabyte and using GS/OS System Software 5.0.2 or greater.[7] "A feature that was added to the ROM 03 firmware that was entirely fun, instead of functional, was accessed by a specific key-sequence. If the computer was booted with no disk in the drive, a message that said "Check startup device" appeared, with an apple symbol sliding back and forth. At that point, if the user pressed the keys "Ctrl", "Open Apple", "Option", and "N" simultaneously, the digitized voices of the Apple IIGS design team could be heard shouting "Apple II!" Also, the names of those people would be displayed on the screen. If running GS/OS System 5.0 or greater, the user would have to hold down the "Option" and "Shift" keys, then pull down the "About" menu in the Finder. It would then say "About the System". Using the mouse to click on that title would cause the names to be displayed and the audio message to be heard." Applefritter www.applefritter.com From aek at spies.com Tue Jan 29 17:20:34 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Need info: Applied Microsystems 8080/8085 Message-ID: <200201292320.PAA21239@spies.com> I have the AMS Z80 and 6809 manuals on line at www.spies.com/arcade/TE If I can scan the 8080 manual Sellam has, I'll put that up as well. From foo at siconic.com Tue Jan 29 08:50:21 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Hayes Micromodem II / microcoupler (was: Re: Is this a IBM RT mouse?) In-Reply-To: <200201292104.g0TL4rj05693@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On 29 Jan 2002, Frank McConnell wrote: > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Oh yeah? Well, I've got the original Hayes modem product: the DC Hayes > > modem for the S-100 bus :) > > Hayes made two modems for the S-100 bus. The first (ca. 1978) was the > 80-103A, the second was the Micromodem 100 (using the same > Microcoupler as the original Micromodem II for the Apple). That explains why my recollection was hazy. I have one of each and was mixing the data on each in my head, so I went with the simplest description :) I did recall that the Micromodel 100 used the Microcoupler but then I remembered the 80-103A didn't. The 80-103A used a device (which I'm now forgetting the name of--damn cold) that you had to get from the phone company in order to use it, back in the days of Ma Bell who was oh so strict and oh so paranoid about what you plugged into her. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Jan 29 19:09:52 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Hayes Micromodem II / microcoupler (was: Re: Is this a IBM RT mouse?) In-Reply-To: Sellam Ismail's message of "Tue, 29 Jan 2002 14:50:21 +0000 (UTC)" References: Message-ID: <200201300109.g0U19q112907@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Sellam Ismail wrote: > I did recall that the Micromodel 100 used the Microcoupler but then I > remembered the 80-103A didn't. The 80-103A used a device (which I'm now > forgetting the name of--damn cold) that you had to get from the phone > company in order to use it, back in the days of Ma Bell who was oh so > strict and oh so paranoid about what you plugged into her. DAA, short for Data Access Arrangement. -Frank McConnell From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Jan 29 17:07:04 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Hayes Micromodem II / microcoupler (was: Re: Is this a IBM RT mouse?) In-Reply-To: <200201292104.g0TL4rj05693@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Oh yeah? Well, I've got the original Hayes modem product: the DC Hayes > > modem for the S-100 bus :) > > Hayes made two modems for the S-100 bus. The first (ca. 1978) was the > 80-103A, the second was the Micromodem 100 (using the same > Microcoupler as the original Micromodem II for the Apple). > I've actually got both of them, but no way to connect either one to the telephone network. :( g. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 29 17:01:52 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Jan 29, 2 04:24:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1044 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020129/71a3cdd1/attachment.ksh From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jan 29 19:28:41 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Jan 29, 2 10:28:58 am" Message-ID: <200201300128.RAA10068@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > How many people on this list still have their 1st computer? second? third? > every computer you ever used/owned? The first computer I ever used, at the tender age of seven, was my dear Tomy Tutor and I still own it. It is in perfect working order. The second computer was a C64 (natch) but the PLA died on it a few years back and I stripped it for parts, the third was a C128 (natch) that suffered a crippling and undetermined board fault, and after that I forget :-) The first Mac I owned was a IIsi, and I still have that. Most of its current parts, the 8*24*GC card and the SCSI EN/SE ENet were bought from you, as I recall. :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Conscience makes egotists of us all. -- Oscar Wilde ------------------------ From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Jan 29 19:37:41 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions References: Message-ID: <3C574E65.5C2A423E@ccp.com> > > How many people on this list still have their 1st computer? second? > > third? every computer you ever used/owned? > I have all of mine, starting with the VIC-20 I bought new. I bought my first 1541 for $340 (on sale too), and an extender card, and all the meory to expand it to full capacity. The rest I have purchased used along the way. I'm up to about 3 Vic's, 5 64's, 7 Amiga's, and one each of an Osborne 1, TI99/4A, and Timex ZX81 in pieces. I don't have the computer we loved to hate at Montana State University, the Xerox Sigma VII. I did APL programming with a 33ASR and acoustic modem (paper tape storage). Then on to real batch programming with those $%#$^$#%^& keypunch machines and a crappy Fortran compiler that bombed out when an error in ONE card was found. From these early experiences I grew to loathe computers, until the VIC rolled down the road towards me. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 29 17:07:23 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Sharp CE-515P - need more pens! (also: Multitech MPF) In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Jan 29, 2 04:20:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1679 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020129/a510d6bd/attachment.ksh From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Jan 29 17:23:35 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Docs for QBus cards wanted Message-ID: <20020130002335.C80544@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Hi. I am currently working on a NetBSD driver for the RX01/02 floppy disk drive. (As an example for a device driver writing HOWTO.) To continue my kernel hacking when this is finished, I am looking for docs for the folowing cards: M7616 KXJ11-CA J11 CPU, 512-Kbyte RAM, 64-Kbyte PROM This is a PDP 11 on a QBus slave card, used as universal intelligent peripheral controller. (Wouldn't it be nice to have a PDP 11 co-processor runing some 2.xBSD in a VAX? ;-) ) M3118-YA CXA16-A 16-line Asynchronous Multiplexor Refs: EK-CAB16-TM, EK-CAB16-UG M3119-YA CXY08-A 8-Line Asynchronous Multiplexor Refs: EK-CXY08-TM -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jan 29 17:28:23 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Docs for QBus cards wanted In-Reply-To: Docs for QBus cards wanted (Jochen Kunz) References: <20020130002335.C80544@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <15447.12311.423984.652325@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 30, Jochen Kunz wrote: > I am currently working on a NetBSD driver for the RX01/02 floppy disk > drive. (As an example for a device driver writing HOWTO.) To continue my > kernel hacking when this is finished, I am looking for docs for the > folowing cards: > > M7616 KXJ11-CA J11 CPU, 512-Kbyte RAM, 64-Kbyte > PROM > This is a PDP 11 on a QBus slave card, used as universal intelligent > peripheral controller. (Wouldn't it be nice to have a PDP 11 > co-processor runing some 2.xBSD in a VAX? ;-) ) Oh I would seriously *dig* this. :-) It would be great to be able to squirt arbitrary code into that card from a userland process. 8-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Jan 29 17:32:55 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Looking for a M200 card reader WITH card weight In-Reply-To: <3C570DBF.6829BA33@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200201292332.RAA22161@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Thanks -Lawrence LeMay > Lawrence, > > I have a M200 too. I'll make a picture of the card weight and email it > to you, it may > take a 2 or 2 to get it made. > > I had a little problem with my reader as well, 2 of the rubber wheels > were turned > into a tar like mass, but I found somebody who will machine 2 > replacements for me. > > Regards, > > Ed > > Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > > Well, considering my card reader can only manage to move the first card > > about 1/8 of an inch at most before generating a pick check, the rock > > might not be entirely out of order :) Ah well, someday i'll have time to > > see if i can repair it. > > > > -Lawrence LeMay > > > > > Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > > > > > > Does anyone here have a M200 card reader with the card weight? What I need is > > > > a good picture of the card weight, so I can attempt to obtain one for my > > > > card reader. Yes, there are people who have these card weights available, > > > > but its extremely difficult to describe something I havent seen for 20 years > > > > myself, just using words ;) > > > > > > > > -Lawrence LeMay > > > > > > Use a ROCK... Since a Card reader is a stoneage device! :) > > > > > > -- > > > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > > > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > > > > > -- > The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. > quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers > http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. > Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Kilometerheffing : De overheid > '97 TL1000S | weet waar je bent geweest! > From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Jan 29 17:49:12 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: PERTEC interface (was Re: StorageTek drive) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, does anyone know of where I could get a QBUS Pertec controller (like an Emulex QT13/14 or Dilog DQ132/153)? I looked into a Pertec->SCSI adaptor, but there's no way in hell I'm spending the $1k or more for a new one. I also might be interested in a Pertec->ISA or Pertec->PCI card if it was supported under something easy to use (Linux, *BSD or DOS/Winblowz). Thanks! -- Pat On Sun, 27 Jan 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > I just picked up a *really cool* 9 track StorageTek drive on Saturday > (thanks Jon!). I'm having trouble trying to find docs for one to indicate > possible diagnostic routine #'s (I've entered all 256 combinations, and > not observed too much interesting). The model number seems to be > something like this (assuming it has a real model #): > > 4000002383-4 > > Also, does anyone have a QBus PERTEC card they would be willing to part > with? Or, does anyone know of a source for an ISA or PCI card that is > supported under some sane OS (Winders or Linux preferred)? > > -- Pat > From wpointon at earthlink.net Tue Jan 29 17:52:58 2002 From: wpointon at earthlink.net (bill pointon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: 10-pin RS/6000 serial cables available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <523CA11A-1513-11D6-9C9B-003065ED7126@earthlink.net> i too would like one for a 41t i have -- billp On Tuesday, January 29, 2002, at 11:03 , r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > > Hey, based on what some folks were saying on list earlier in the > month, I > grabbed a small quantity of RS/6000 cables, which I'm offering for my > cost > ($2) plus shipping. > > FRU 74F3135 > > 10-pin ("dual5") plug <-> miniDIN-8 > > I can't speculate as to what its original purpose might've been, but > perhaps some of you might find it useful for your older RS/6000s. > > ok > r. > From red at bears.org Tue Jan 29 18:25:39 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: 10-pin RS/6000 serial cables available In-Reply-To: <523CA11A-1513-11D6-9C9B-003065ED7126@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, bill pointon wrote: > i too would like one for a 41t i have -- billp If I had to guess, wouldn't a 41t have a more standard d-sub style serial connector? The non--mini-DIN end of this cable has 10 pins on .100" centers (what I've heard termed a 'BERG header') wrapped in a silly, rectangular, plastic shroud. Let me know if you still think that's what you want. ok r. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jan 29 19:36:02 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) In-Reply-To: from "Feldman, Robert" at "Jan 29, 2 10:28:33 am" Message-ID: <200201300136.RAA10686@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Nah, you can put Minix on an HP LX palmtop, which is smaller and lighter > than a Poqet (see http://www.technoir.nu/hplx/minix.html). Any hope of this coming out for the 95LX? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Mistakes are often the stepping stones to catastrophic failure. ------------ From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 29 19:48:41 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Hayes Micromodem II / microcoupler (was: Re: Is this a IBM RT mouse?) In-Reply-To: <200201300109.g0U19q112907@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On 29 Jan 2002, Frank McConnell wrote: > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > I did recall that the Micromodel 100 used the Microcoupler but then I > > remembered the 80-103A didn't. The 80-103A used a device (which I'm now > > forgetting the name of--damn cold) that you had to get from the phone > > company in order to use it, back in the days of Ma Bell who was oh so > > strict and oh so paranoid about what you plugged into her. > > DAA, short for Data Access Arrangement. What do these look like? I may just have oh...7-9 or so of these things. The units I have are not "small" by any means. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 29 19:51:11 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Hayes Micromodem II / microcoupler (was: Re: Is this a IBM RT mouse?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > Hayes made two modems for the S-100 bus. The first (ca. 1978) was the > > 80-103A, the second was the Micromodem 100 (using the same > > Microcoupler as the original Micromodem II for the Apple). > > I've actually got both of them, but no way to connect either one to the > telephone network. :( Well, with a little luck, I may be able to at least make up prints and plans for a do-it-yourself microcoupler reproduction. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 29 19:55:36 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > [HP 'classic series' battery packs] > > > > There's no off-the-shelf replacement, but most HP calculator hackers > > > have learnt to crack open the plastic housing and replace the cells (3 > > > tagged AA NiCds in this pack). > > > > They sell those 3-cell AA NiCad packs here as replacements for cordless > > phones. I've often see them in local shops for $10-12. > > Sure, they're available over here (about \pounds 10.00 IIRC). They're one > possible replacement for restuffing the original HP pack. > > You do want to start with an HP pack, though. You want the plastic > housing and terminal contacts. That way you can make something that slots > into the calculator like the genuine pack. Yes, you could wire the > terminals to the contact strips in the calculator (or to the appropriate > connections on the adapter plug), but it's more messy that way. > > For that reason, never throw out an old HP battery pack (even though HP > never considered them to be repairable). It's _always_ possible to > rebuild them. and you need some parts from the old pack It's getting that way with old laptops and portable computers these days too. Replacement "packs" are either not available or are way to expensive. More often than not, the batteries inside those things are standard (usually still have to be ordered) NiCad or Nimh type cells. -Toth From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 29 14:14:51 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help In-Reply-To: <3C56B741.178DFBD5@idirect.com> from "Jerome Fine" at Jan 29, 2 09:52:49 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1175 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020129/91d0ba9f/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jan 29 19:57:47 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: DesqView In-Reply-To: from "Gareth Knight" at Jan 29, 2002 09:33:55 PM Message-ID: <200201300157.g0U1vlO21428@shell1.aracnet.com> Has anyone been able to access the site they claimed had it for download? I've wanted a copy of this since it came out! Does Symantec have their own download site? Zane > > No wonder has mentioned this, so I thought I would throw it into the Classic > mixer: > > http://slashdot.org/articles/02/01/27/1950244.shtml > Quote: > "It seems Symantec (purchasers of former company Quarterdeck) has release > DeskView/X into public domain and can be downloaded now. DesqView/X was a From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jan 29 17:25:21 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions References: <3C574E65.5C2A423E@ccp.com> Message-ID: <3C572F61.8CDBA0F7@jetnet.ab.ca> Gary Hildebrand wrote: > > I don't have the computer we loved to hate at Montana State University, > the Xerox Sigma VII. I did APL programming with a 33ASR and acoustic > modem (paper tape storage). Then on to real batch programming with > those $%#$^$#%^& keypunch machines and a crappy Fortran compiler that > bombed out when an error in ONE card was found. From these early > experiences I grew to loathe computers, until the VIC rolled down the > road towards me. And now you 'loath and hate them'? :) My gripe with the early machines is that about all that would run on them was BASIC and cassette I/O. What small income I had in the 1980's was never enough for a real system as by the time you added a printer,cassette,monitor, 16k ram to the basic system you had no money left for real I/O. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 29 20:12:33 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > On the other hand, the VT3xx terminals eat flybacks like they're going > out of fashion. They tend to last rather less well than LK201 > keyboards. I can vouch for that. My VT340's flyback let out its magic smoke about 6-8 months ago. Does anyone happen to have the service manual and or a replacement flyback for this thing? I'd like to repair it in the near future. What most often causes the flyback to go out? It worked fine one day, the next it let out a cloud of smoke. -Toth From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jan 29 05:57:02 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Anyone wants a Micron Exceed for MAC Se30? In-Reply-To: <000d01c1a890$fe9f6320$6400a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: >Hi all > >While cleaning up and tossing stuff I found a Micron Exceed video card for >MAC Se/30. >This was gonna go into garbage...but I looked it up and saw that it could be >considered rare (...) and perhaps I should not thrash it and get it to >someone who can appreciate it. >I am not a big ebay-er seller or buyer, so I am offering it here. Trade >offers, no $. I saw these going for $60 to $500 depending on model (!!???) >I am looking for SGI and SUN equip... Very desired, IF its the complete rig of both cards to allow internal greyscale display on the SE/30. Unfortunately I doubt I have anything too interesting, some keyboards and mice, a Solbourne (Sun clone). Let me know of some things you want and I can look though. Here are a couple good pages of info on the cards. http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/microngray.html http://www.lowendmac.com/compact/xceed.shtml From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 29 20:08:29 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Looking for a WD 1001 55 Disk controller In-Reply-To: <3C587997.A9A9139@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020129210829.007e8cf0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Jerry, I have a friend that owns a business that specializing in old odd ICs. If you'll tell me exactly the part number and package that you need. I'll see if I can find one. Joe At 02:54 PM 1/30/02 -0800, you wrote: >Hi > >I'm trying to get a Molecular going. it has Bad disk controller. WD >1001 55 > >Does anyone have one of theses that they can spare. > >I have 1000 series But there is a difference. > >E-mail me at address below > >Thanks, Jerry > >Jerry Wright >JLC inc. >g-wright@worldnet.att.net (new) > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 29 20:12:30 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Need info: Applied Microsystems 8080/8085 In-Reply-To: <200201292320.PAA21239@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020129211230.007e8210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:20 PM 1/29/02 -0800, you wrote: > >I have the AMS Z80 and 6809 manuals on line at www.spies.com/arcade/TE Thanks Al. They should get me started. >If I can scan the 8080 manual Sellam has, I'll put that up as well. Sellam told me about that. I've offered to scan it and send the images to you if that will help. I also have a disk of software that I got with this one. I'll send you the details later. Let me know if you want a copy. Joe > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 29 20:19:35 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Sharp CE-515P - need more pens! (also: Multitech MPF) In-Reply-To: <02fa01c1a910$c9808ae0$14507ad5@phoenix> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020129211935.007c28a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:03 PM 1/29/02 -0000, you wrote: >Hi, > A few of you might remember my Sharp CE-515P plotter. Well, my pens are >almost completely devoid of ink and I need more. I know All Electronics sell >a pack of 4x black pens, but I'm after the four coloured ones (blue, green, >red and black). I'd really like to keep this thing running, but if I can't >get the pens then I'm afraid I'm going to have to relegate it to the >cupboard... I bought both black and colored pens a few years ago. I THINK I got them from Goldmine Electronics. You should check with them. Besides their prices are a lot better than All's. joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 29 20:31:40 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Need info: Applied Microsystems 8080/8085 Diagnostic Emulator In-Reply-To: <004701c1a906$d4f50590$9ddb3fd0@DOMAIN> References: <3.0.6.32.20020129135141.007df530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020129213140.007e3100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:52 PM 1/29/02 -0500, you wrote: >Hyya Joe, > >> Does anyone know anything about the item above? I've seen these before >> but this is the first one that I've found with the pod and this one seems >> to work. I've posted a picture at >> . I know it's big but I wanted >> to capture as much detail as possible. >> > >I've got one almost like it for the 6809/6809e, the EM-189 Diagnostic >Emulator. You also have a model 800 for the Z-80 CPU. I know cause I gave it to ya :-/ I have some software for mine and I think it will also operate your's but the disassembler is for the Z-80/8080/8085. >I've got a manual for mine. Check this out: > >...the basic function of the [] is to emulate the target system >microporcessor. Effectively, the DE is a pin-compatible functional >replacement for the microporcessor in the target system. The unit is >designed to meet the tiuming specifications of the emulated processor and to >minimize the increase in electrical loading of the user's system. It is >always in one of two modes: RUN and PAUSE. If in the RUN mode. it is >emulating the target system microprocessor and executing the target system >program at full system speed. The Trace Memory will be active (unless >unhibited by external control or trace hold) and all bus cycles of the >emulated microprocessor are recorded for possible later display. In PAUSE >mode, the target system is suspended and you can examine/alter memory and >regisers and review target's execution history... > >They can also be configured with Overlay RAM blocks and firmware >disassemblers, etc... I know, I have the software :-) > > >Cool toy! That's what I thought. I bought this one a couple of months ago and planned on e-baying it and never looked at it closely till today. But after looking at it I'm not sure if I want to part with it or not. Just what I need ANOTHER 8080 emulator. I've got the Fluke 9010, the Intel uScope and TWO Intel MDS-800s with ICE-80 pods. How about sending me the manual that you have? Or are you plannng on coming down here weekend after next? Joe >;) >- Mike > > > > From fb007b4157_2 at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Jan 29 20:35:44 2002 From: fb007b4157_2 at blueyonder.co.uk (Francis Bell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E20D@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <3C575C00.3040706@blueyonder.co.uk> My first was an Elliott 903. It had an optical paper tape reader and a Vectrex tape punch. 16K of core store. I/O was a teletype. No operating system, we just used to load Fortran IV from tape and leave it in core. The best programs we had for this machine were: Playing "the entry of the queen of Sheeba" on the built-in speaker; Making text banners out of paper tape; "Magic", a program for copying paper tapes Sadly this machine was scrapped many years ago. F ---- >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Mike Ford [mailto:mikeford@socal.rr.com] >> > >>How many people on this list still have their 1st computer? >>second? third? >>every computer you ever used/owned? >> From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 29 13:26:46 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W! In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Jan 28, 2 07:06:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 889 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020129/bd28f531/attachment.ksh From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Tue Jan 29 20:57:22 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) References: Message-ID: <3C576112.40E5F98F@verizon.net> > but the mould would be very hard to make (cutting > internal teeth on a mould that size) Wire EDM Tony Duell wrote: > > > I've just been trying to locate replacement gears for my 1520 - So > > As is everyone who has this type of plotter mechanism. I have a 1520, > Tandy CGP115, a couple of Sharp PC1500 printers, a Sharp MZ700 with > built-in printer, an ORIC printer, and at least one other. At least half > of them have this problem... > > > far, my measurements have yielded the following... > > > > 14 teeth > > 0.175" tall > > ~0.144" diameter (hard to get an exact measurement with my micrometer) > > > > I do not know the pitch or the depth. Not sure how to accurately > > measure them except with a fine-pitch measuring stick and a magnifying > > device (I have neither). > > There are various ways using rods of known diamater. You insert them into > the teeth, and then measure the overall size with a micrometer. Rather > like measuring screw threads. > > Or you can make a few good estimates using the known overall diameter and > number of teeth. > > > > > I do not know the shaft diameter yet, but that's only because I haven't > > gotten the micrometer to where the plotter is. > > > > There are two of these gears in the plotter, one on the X and one on > > the Y gear trains. They are the last step in the reduction. I have > > I would call it the _first_ step in the reduction. It's tbe pinion on the > motor spindle. > > Unfortunately the service manual I have for the mechanism doesn't give a > separate part number or description for the pinion. You're expected to > change the complete stepper motor :-(. And don't ask me where to get > those from either.... > > > an Atari plotter with the same innards as the C= 1520 and both of the > > gears in there are split along the bottom of a groove - thin material > > there, plus a bit of stress and who knows what kind of thermal expansion. > > It's a very common problem. > > > > > The local hobby stores do not carry gears with such a fine pitch. For > > that diameter, they have 10 and 12 toothed gears, not 14. There are > > gear specialty companies, but I don't have enough measurements to search > > the catalogs or place an order. > > I've not found them ready-made either. > > There seem to be several possibilites : > > 1) Make a mould and injection-mould them yourself. I think the David > Gingery injection moulding machine could easily do it, but the mould > would be very hard to make (cutting internal teeth on a mould that size) > > 2) Use tranditional gear cutting techniques (dividing head and involute > cutter) to make a replacvement from scratch. > > 3) Make a lantern pinion of the appropriate size. This actually looks > very possible. The meshing gear's teeth won't be the right shape for the > trundles of a lantern pinion, but that may not matter. > > 4) Kludge it. One suggestion is to make a groove in the teeth away from > the meshing part and to bind it with fine wire. I've heard this can work, > but I've not tried it. > > -tony From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jan 29 21:01:43 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Looking for a WD 1001 55 Disk controller References: <3.0.6.32.20020129210829.007e8cf0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <005101c1a93a$727d5be0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The WD1001 is a board using the WD 1100 chipset supported with an 8x300/305-type microcontroller. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 7:08 PM Subject: Re: Looking for a WD 1001 55 Disk controller > Jerry, > > I have a friend that owns a business that specializing in old odd ICs. If > you'll tell me exactly the part number and package that you need. I'll see > if I can find one. > > Joe > > At 02:54 PM 1/30/02 -0800, you wrote: > >Hi > > > >I'm trying to get a Molecular going. it has Bad disk controller. WD > >1001 55 > > > >Does anyone have one of theses that they can spare. > > > >I have 1000 series But there is a difference. > > > >E-mail me at address below > > > >Thanks, Jerry > > > >Jerry Wright > >JLC inc. > >g-wright@worldnet.att.net (new) > > > > > > From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 29 21:03:10 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > Anyway, mine has a built-in PSU. Just an IEC plug on the back ('kettle > plug') that, in my case, takes in 240V AC. I guess they were made with > different transformers for other voltages. It would appear that mine does as well. I never looked at it closely, since it looked like a brick or wall-wart was supposed to fit into the styrofoam packing. I guess nothing went there. > According to the schematic, the transformer has a single secondary > winding (no taps). The AC from that is rectified, smoothed, and then > regulated down to a couple of 5V rails by a linear regulator circuit. > I would guess that the secondary gives about 8 to 9 VAC. If you > insist, I'll try to find my 1520 and measure it. Thanks for the offer, but I thought it needed a wall-wart or something, which is what I wanted to know the output voltage of. -Toth From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Tue Jan 29 20:56:44 2002 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: It's alive... It's alive Message-ID: WhooHoo! After many days of tinkering and frustration, I finally have a HP1000/E running BASIC. Now if I can just get it to talk to a 9-track tape drive... Hmmm... Where did I leave that soldering iron ;-) Many thanks to Bob Shannon for his assistance. I couldn't have done it without his help. SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jan 29 20:48:11 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help In-Reply-To: Christopher Smith "RE: VT131 needs keyboard help" (Jan 29, 10:14) References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E200@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <10201300248.ZM20596@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 29, 10:14, Christopher Smith wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com [mailto:pete@dunnington.u-net.com] > > > "4", etc. If > > only the keyboard test fails, the terminal should go online > > in receive-only > > mode (ie it's useful as a display). > > It does that... :) Would like to type things, though. You seem to have the "look, don't touch option" favoured by some museums. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jan 29 20:10:54 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Searching for old DEC 12V frontpanel bulbs In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Re: Searching for old DEC 12V frontpanel bulbs" (Jan 29, 6:22) References: <20020129142228.46440.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10201300210.ZM20576@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 29, 6:22, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Sounds like a standard T1_1/2 (about 3/16" diameter) or T1_3/4 (about > > 1/4" diameter) wire-ended bulb. There are still a few companies that > > make them. > > If I had to guess, I'd go with the 1/4" diameter. These are larger > than PDP-8/L or RL01/RL02 bulbs. The bulbs in RL02s aren't "wire-ended", they're 14 volt T1_1/2 "wedge base" bulbs. Wedge base bulbs are common in motor vehicles. Unfortunately 14V is hard to get (except in T1_3/4 size), but I used 12V ones in my RL02s -- they're just a bit brighter. Farnell part no 328-960, made by SLI (for whom someone posted a URL). I got some low-current 12V ones made by VCH as well. > > > If DEC was underfeeding these bulbs to extend their life, I would > > > expect that the bulb should be rated at 14V-16V. > > > The Farnell catalogue lists a few that are 14V. The correct bulbs for my > > RL02 drives are 14V, fed from a 12V supply, as you say. > > >From a conversation with Jeff Russ, a PDP collector from Indiana, it > seems that the bulbs are 28V, underfed to 12V-14V. He found some > similar bulbs at a hamefest once, but they drew double the current > of the originals. Dunno about bulbs for a PDP-8 but spare RL01/2 bulbs I got from DEC are definitely 14V. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jan 29 20:35:04 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: HP JetDirect for Apple?? In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "RE: HP JetDirect for Apple??" (Jan 29, 6:56) References: <20020129145613.59888.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10201300235.ZM20584@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 29, 6:56, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Russ Blakeman wrote: > > What jetdirect cards are you looking for - in other words for which HP > > printers? I work in these things all the time and come across sources of > > various ones from time to time. Also which ethernet - 10baseT, 10/100? > > With BNC or without? > > Personally, _I'm_ looking for an HP JetDirect card for my LJ-IIID. I'd > prefer 10BaseT over 10Base2. I wouldn't say no to a 10/100 card, but I > doubt there was one for this old printer. I think some of the later cards do fit, probably ones for a LaserJet V. > The card I'm looking for should have multi-protocol support - Unix, > Apple and PeeCee. If I had a part number, I'd list it, but I know > they made such things. The normal interfaces were J2550A (10baseT only), J2552A (10baseT/10base2/Localtalk), J2555A (Token Ring). You can upgrade the firmware if it's very old, and it does support all the common protocols (lpr, Novell, Applesquawk, ...). Whether the printer/interface supports them all *at the same time* depends on the printer, not the interface. Some printers, like the IIISi, LJ4/4M and most DesignJets are single-protocol and can only be configured to handle one at a time; if you want to use a different protocol you have to reconfigure the printer. Others, like the 4Si and later, and my DeskJet 1600, can handle all at the same time, and switch between them according to what arrives on the interface(s). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From blstuart at bellsouth.net Tue Jan 29 21:25:01 2002 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 29 Jan 2002 10:28:58 -0800 . Message-ID: In message , Mike Ford writes: >How many people on this list still have their 1st computer? second? third? >every computer you ever used/owned? I don't have the first one I used. It was an Altair my cousin owned. Later I used a Z-80 system he designed for a client and did a little Fortran on it. I do have the first one I ever owned. It's a microprocessor trainer from Motorola. It's got a 4801 (a little CMOS version of the 6800) and all of 256 bytes of memory. The interface is 8 toggle switches for data, 8 LEDs for output and 3 toggle switches for control. It even had a cassette interface. Brian L. Stuart From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 29 21:50:21 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: IRIS Power Series power supply questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well, got the images up in a temporary location. There are 16 images total, thumbnailed of my SGI 4D/310VGX. A couple are a little fuzzy, but I was in a hurry when taking them. If anyone wants to have a look, heres the url: http://www.techmonkeys.org/~tothwolf/SGI-4D-310VGX/ Oh, and this is on topic, the machine was made in 1991 ;) -Toth From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Tue Jan 29 21:57:49 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Scoring system for messages to avoid annoying dweebs? References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1FD@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <3C576F3D.BD669129@verizon.net> > What happens when everyone votes each other down to 0? :) Anarchy Christopher Smith wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] > > > For instance, this message would get negative votes for being > > off-topic, > > my score would go down, and then some people might find it > > preferable to > > ignore future messages from me based on my score ;) > > What happens when everyone votes each other down to 0? :) > > Chris > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Tue Jan 29 22:23:51 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Sharp CE-515P - need more pens! (also: Multitech MPF) References: <02fa01c1a910$c9808ae0$14507ad5@phoenix> Message-ID: <3C577557.B6F3C9B2@verizon.net> Would there be a way to inject some more ink into the pens you already have? Philip Pemberton wrote: > > Hi, > A few of you might remember my Sharp CE-515P plotter. Well, my pens are > almost completely devoid of ink and I need more. I know All Electronics sell > a pack of 4x black pens, but I'm after the four coloured ones (blue, green, > red and black). I'd really like to keep this thing running, but if I can't > get the pens then I'm afraid I'm going to have to relegate it to the > cupboard... > > Alternatively, if someone wants to donate a working flatbed (preferably > A3-size) plotter to my collection... > > BTW, anyone got a Monitor ROM dump, memory map, schematic diagram, etc for > the Multitech MPF-IB or MPF-I (the one with the green starburst display)? > I'd like to have a go at rebuilding one. Just for the hell of it :-) > > Later. > > -- > Phil. > philpem@bigfoot.com > http://www.philpem.btinternet.co.uk/ From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Tue Jan 29 22:37:52 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: Docs for QBus cards wanted References: <20020130002335.C80544@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <3C5778A0.2030804@aurora.regenstrief.org> Jochen Kunz wrote: > Hi. > > I am currently working on a NetBSD driver for the RX01/02 floppy disk > drive. (As an example for a device driver writing HOWTO.) To continue my > kernel hacking when this is finished, I am looking for docs for the > folowing cards: > > M7616 KXJ11-CA J11 CPU, 512-Kbyte RAM, 64-Kbyte > PROM > This is a PDP 11 on a QBus slave card, used as universal intelligent > peripheral controller. (Wouldn't it be nice to have a PDP 11 > co-processor runing some 2.xBSD in a VAX? ;-) ) > > M3118-YA CXA16-A 16-line Asynchronous Multiplexor > Refs: EK-CAB16-TM, EK-CAB16-UG I send this one to Chuck McManis, apparently he's working on that too. I cannot possibly ship it through my modem right now. > > M3119-YA CXY08-A 8-Line Asynchronous Multiplexor > Refs: EK-CXY08-TM > > -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Jan 29 22:45:18 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: It's alive... It's alive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020130044517.GA12524@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Steve Robertson, from writings of Tue, Jan 29, 2002 at 09:56:44PM -0500: > After many days of tinkering and frustration, I finally have a HP1000/E > running BASIC. Now if I can just get it to talk to a 9-track tape drive... Congratulations and good luck! Now, you're almost ready to put it to use. Have you thought about using your HP-1000 for a firewall? For anyone interested in this idea, check out the following URL (the article is almost 10 years old, so it's almost on-topic :-): http://lists.gnac.net/pipermail/firewalls/1993-September/001306.html -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Jan 29 18:25:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: That's not a _real_ computer(Was: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payo la?)) In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1F9@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <3C56E8FC.11599.DBAA365@localhost> My mistake, they are 8meg. And no I'm not exaggerating. Just measured dimensions are 5"x19.25"x18.5". The XT (and PC) are 5'x19"x16". I've got 3 of them and my Model II fits good on top. Lawrence > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lawrence Walker [mailto:lgwalker@mts.net] > > > On the other hand MY TRS80 5meg HD is bigger than your XT, > > and my pre-Sprint Qume power supply is known to dim lights in > > the neighborhood. And it don't use no steenking, cheating, 220V > > power source. > > I read that as "TRS80 Smeg HD" :) > > Are you sure you're not exaggerating? TRS-80s themselves wouldn't be that big > without the monitor attached. :) > > Regards, > > Chris > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Jan 29 20:43:49 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) In-Reply-To: References: <3C56C357.5010107@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <3C570985.32347.E39BF10@localhost> I had heard a while ago that you could still get the pens from Radio Shack. Likely by special order. Lawrence > On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote: > > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > > I'd love to have a handful of these - I have a real 1520 as well as the > > > Atari plotter (and pens and paper). > > > > That reminds me that I have one of those too. Is there any recognized > > method of poor-man's pen replacement? Crayons? Ballpens? > > Sadly, I passed up on 100s of replacement pens for these...and the place > that had them for $0.05/pkg closed up shop a few months ago. I should have > bought them up when I had the chance :/ > > -Toth > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jan 29 23:10:59 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) In-Reply-To: <3C570985.32347.E39BF10@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > I had heard a while ago that you could still get the pens from Radio Shack. > Likely by special order. I had a box of the Radio Shack ones, a couple of the printing mechanisms, and one of the Radio Shack pen printers at last years (2000) VCF. I can't find them now, so I think that somebody here must have bought them. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 30 00:20:17 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:22 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020130062017.81711.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > I've just been trying to locate replacement gears for my 1520... > > There are various ways using rods of known diamater. You insert them into > the teeth, and then measure the overall size with a micrometer. Rather > like measuring screw threads. That's an interesting idea. I hadn't thought of it. All I need is some fine, precision wire... > Or you can make a few good estimates using the known overall diameter and > number of teeth. I thought of that, but I wasn't sure how to validate/cross-check my estimates. I really can't estimate if the depth is 0.1mm or 0.05 mm or what. Not without some sort of precision measuring device. > > There are two of these gears in the plotter, one on the X and one on > > the Y gear trains. They are the last step in the reduction. I have > > I would call it the _first_ step in the reduction. It's tbe pinion on the > motor spindle. Not in mine... it's the farthest gear from the motor spindle that's broken - it's the gear on the shaft that runs the width of the printer mechanism, for one. Perhaps we have different broken gears in ours... > Unfortunately the service manual I have for the mechanism doesn't give a > separate part number or description for the pinion. You're expected to > change the complete stepper motor :-(. And don't ask me where to get > those from either.... Eastern Pennsylvania, no doubt. A long, long time ago, in a Galaxy... > There seem to be several possibilites : > > 1) Make a mould and injection-mould them yourself. I think the David > Gingery injection moulding machine could easily do it, but the mould > would be very hard to make (cutting internal teeth on a mould that size) Might not produce a clean casting, either. > 2) Use tranditional gear cutting techniques (dividing head and involute > cutter) to make a replacvement from scratch. I would try that if I had access to the equipment > 3) Make a lantern pinion of the appropriate size. This actually looks > very possible. The meshing gear's teeth won't be the right shape for the > trundles of a lantern pinion, but that may not matter. I don't recognize the term "lantern pinion" - is there an American term for that? > 4) Kludge it. One suggestion is to make a groove in the teeth away from > the meshing part and to bind it with fine wire. I've heard this can work, > but I've not tried it. I hadn't thought of a wire binding, but I did think of epoxy... kinda permanent, though. If it breaks further, it'd be difficult to clean up the mess. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From geoff at pkworks.com Tue Jan 29 23:17:18 2002 From: geoff at pkworks.com (Geoffrey G. Rochat) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: Searching for old DEC 12V frontpanel bulbs Message-ID: <00b501c1a94d$6432a0a0$1f77f4d0@dialup> > >I'm restoring some pre-TTL DEC stuff (R and W series logic) and I need >a handful of front panel bulbs. Unlike the later bulbs with a plastic >base and strong wires to solder to the PCB or to plug into socket pins, >these are like a kernel of corn, with two fine wires coming out of the >glass envelope at a slight angle with no supports of any kind. > >Some of the bulbs have burned-out filiaments. Many of the ones I need >to replace have broken wires externally. I am going to attempt to >solder new wires to the stub, but I don't expect the attempt to be an >overwhelming success. I might try a harder solder so that when I put >them back in the frontpanel PCB, they won't give way when I put enough >heat on the other end to install them. > >About all I know about these bulbs is that they are fed a nominal 12VDC >from the W-series driver boards. The front panel itself is literally just >a PCB and a bunch of bulbs; no active circuits (unlike, say, the front >panel of a PDP-8/L). Testing should be easy - feed 12VDC at a few mA >to each set of fingers and check the bulbs, one by one. > >If DEC was underfeeding these bulbs to extend their life, I would expect >that the bulb should be rated at 14V-16V. I measured slightly over 12VDC >in circuit, but well within a 5% tolerance. > >I have checked the online manuals I could find, but no mention is made >of the nature of the bulbs for 1966/1967-era DEC equipment. Any ideas? > I relamped the PDP-9 I am resoring for the Rhode Island Computer Museum a little over a year ago, and what follows is my description of that process. Given the time frame of the PDP-9, I suspect you're looking at a similar situation. I bought my 1764 lamps off the shelf from Mouser (www.mouser.com): The PDP-9 lamp board on which I wasted so much time and solder today is, I'm sorry to say, a nasty bit of work - not DEC's finest hour. Consider, it's 60 (not 56 as I previously reported) type 1762 T-1 3/4 wire-terminated lamps soldered into a board with 60 driver transistors, an electrolytic cap and a handful of connectors. It's buried deep inside the front panel, accessible, and only with difficulty, by climbing into the main system rack. Type 1762 lamps are very interesting. They're roughly 3/16" in diameter by 3/8" long, domed at the top (where they show through a masonite light blocker panel to the laminated plastic front panel of the -9), and roughly conical at the bottom. The wire leads protrude TO THE SIDES about 1/16" up from the bottom, and the leads are bent down so that they can be soldered into the board. I've seen oddball lamps before, but these are about as outr? as little incandescent lamps get. The wires are hard-drawn (ie: very brittle) copper, and they appear to poke through the glass without much of a seal. Over time the copper has corroded at the glass interface (Lots of green and blue ambergris. 'Looks good on an old roof, but is very disconcerting to see in electronic circuitry.), and the lamps break loose if you even think about looking at them. Also, enough tungsten has boiled off the filaments over the years that the top domes of most of the lamps are greatly darkened. I didn't bother to use any of the old lamps (although I salvaged what I could for posterity), but replaced all 60 of 'em with type 1764 lamps. Type 1762 lamps are damned-near impossible to find anymore (and given their construction I'm not surprised one bit); type 1764s are identical electrically (28V, 40ma, 340mA max cold surge current, CF-2 filament structure, 4000 hrs), and are the same size mechanically, but the wire leads come out the bottom through a more-conventional, and far less fragile, frit seal. Also, the leads appear to be tinned Kovar. They're stiffer but more malleable than the copper leads, they appear to "wet" where they seal with the glass, and they're magnetic. They also solder quite well. I dunno where DEC got those 1762s from. Maybe Ken got a good deal on 'em or something, and any insight from old DECies would be helpful here, too. But they sure did suck. In any event, all 60 lamps were removed. All 120 contacts (staked eyelets, by the way, pressed into a single-sided non-plated-through-hole tinned glass-epoxy board roughly 3" wide by 18" long) were cleaned - in large part to remove the drek left on the board from previous re-lampings. (I found evidence for at least one, and probably two, re-lampings, as well as the replacement of at least one of the driver transistors. One of the jobs was done by a tech whose training appears to have been at Hormel. He or she didn't know the difference between careful soldering and slaughtering hogs!) All 60 new lamps were installed and aligned (And I carefully made sure to get all their polarities right! ), and the soldering job was inspected both visually under a magnifier and with an Ohm meter. The visual inspection found only one cold solder joint, and the meter found only one short (from a "sailor joint": gobs of solder), both of which were corrected. The driver transistors had previously been verified by junction checking. We should be set to go. I would recommend should a re-lamping ever again be required that LEDs rather than incandescent lamps be used. The availability of suitable lamps is questionable in the future (I just happened to find a stock of 300 at Mouser Electronics, now down to 250), and the ability of the lamp circuit board to take too many more re-lampings is questionable. A standard 20mA T-1 yellow LED (watch that polarity!) in series with a 680 Ohm 1/2W resistor to handle the roughly 15V drive voltage, "air-bridge" constructed to fit into the hole in the masonite light blocker of the front panel, would be a suitable permanent replacement for one of these lamps. From sloboyko at yahoo.com Tue Jan 29 23:21:05 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: Sharp CE-515P - need more pens! (also: Multitech MPF) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020129211935.007c28a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20020130052105.22142.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com> I too could have sworn that I saw this item in a Goldmine catalog. --- Joe wrote: > At 10:03 PM 1/29/02 -0000, you wrote: > >Hi, > > A few of you might remember my Sharp CE-515P > plotter. Well, my pens are > >almost completely devoid of ink and I need more. I > know All Electronics sell > >a pack of 4x black pens, but I'm after the four > coloured ones (blue, green, > >red and black). I'd really like to keep this thing > running, but if I can't > >get the pens then I'm afraid I'm going to have to > relegate it to the > >cupboard... > > I bought both black and colored pens a few years > ago. I THINK I got them > from Goldmine Electronics. You should check with > them. Besides their prices > are a lot better than All's. > > joe > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jan 30 00:35:27 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards In-Reply-To: Re: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards (Tony Duell) References: <15444.53021.544600.151873@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15447.37935.274045.921482@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 28, Tony Duell wrote: > > listeners - Transmission Aborted". I assume this means it can't > > directly address an arbitrary HPIB device, only something set to > > "listen only"? This is the only time I've used HPIB and had things > > I think you're right, > > The bad news is that there's no way to set the 82169 to work like this. > You might be able to configure it as a listener using another controller, > and then get the 'scope to send data to it (without it being unlistened), > but don't ask me how to do that. And that would require you to find > another HPIB controller. Ahh well. Thanks for the suggestions, though. The lucky thing is, I found my HPIB ThinkJet. I thought it was up in Maryland in storage, but it's actually here at my new place. So I'm happily printing IR LED drive waveforms for the guy up in Maryland who's working on the driver circuitry for my new work project but can't afford a real scope. :-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 30 09:47:20 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: PKZIP problem Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020130104720.007d6ae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> OK all you brains out there. See if you can answer this one. How can I make PKZIP include ALL the files on a disk INCLUDING those in sub directories and the sub directories themselves. Easy, you say? Go try it. The help menu says that -r will make it recurse sub directories and that -p will make it save the directory names and -P will make it save the sub directory names even if they're empty. OR it says that you can use -&s[drive] to copy an entire drive. Well I've been trying to get either one to work for the last hour and I haven't had any luck. -$a: ties to create a .ZIP file by the name of -&sa: but that's illegal so it errors out. -rp, -rP, -Pr and -pr all do that same thing. It copies all the files including those in the subdirectories but when you use PKUNZIP all the files are placed in one directory therefore losing the directory structure and overwritng any files that have same names but that came from different subdirectories. I've tried this with MS DOS PKZIP verion 2.04g and with Winzip but I got the same results with both. Any ideas about what's wrong? Joe From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Jan 30 10:04:39 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: PKZIP problem In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020130104720.007d6ae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020130110439.0133b008@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Joe may have mentioned these words: > OK all you brains out there. See if you can answer this one. How can I >make PKZIP include ALL the files on a disk INCLUDING those in sub >directories and the sub directories themselves. Easy, you say? Go try it. >The help menu says that -r will make it recurse sub directories and that -p >will make it save the directory names and -P will make it save the sub >directory names even if they're empty. OR it says that you can use >-&s[drive] to copy an entire drive. > > Well I've been trying to get either one to work for the last hour and I >haven't had any luck. -$a: ties to create a .ZIP file by the name of -&sa: >but that's illegal so it errors out. -rp, -rP, -Pr and -pr all do that >same thing. It copies all the files including those in the subdirectories >but when you use PKUNZIP all the files are placed in one directory >therefore losing the directory structure and overwritng any files that have >same names but that came from different subdirectories. I've tried this >with MS DOS PKZIP verion 2.04g and with Winzip but I got the same results >with both. Yea - you have to call pkunzip with the -d flag, to tell it to create the necessary directories. pkzip -rP is what you want to use for the compression (at least that's what I always used & worked fine for me). HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Jan 30 10:10:01 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: PKZIP problem Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1A1A3830@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@cfl.rr.com] > Well I've been trying to get either one to work for the > last hour and I > haven't had any luck. -$a: ties to create a .ZIP file by the > name of -&sa: > but that's illegal so it errors out. -rp, -rP, -Pr and -pr > all do that > same thing. It copies all the files including those in the > subdirectories > but when you use PKUNZIP all the files are placed in one directory > therefore losing the directory structure and overwritng any > files that have > same names but that came from different subdirectories. I've You did use pkunzip with the option (yes, it's optional) to make it restore the directory tree, right? :) I think it's -d Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Jan 30 11:16:15 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: PKZIP problem In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020130104720.007d6ae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Joe, when you unzip with pkunzip, you need to specify "-d" so it will unpack the directory tree as well. g. On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Joe wrote: > OK all you brains out there. See if you can answer this one. How can I > make PKZIP include ALL the files on a disk INCLUDING those in sub > directories and the sub directories themselves. Easy, you say? Go try it. > The help menu says that -r will make it recurse sub directories and that -p > will make it save the directory names and -P will make it save the sub > directory names even if they're empty. OR it says that you can use > -&s[drive] to copy an entire drive. > > Well I've been trying to get either one to work for the last hour and I > haven't had any luck. -$a: ties to create a .ZIP file by the name of -&sa: > but that's illegal so it errors out. -rp, -rP, -Pr and -pr all do that > same thing. It copies all the files including those in the subdirectories > but when you use PKUNZIP all the files are placed in one directory > therefore losing the directory structure and overwritng any files that have > same names but that came from different subdirectories. I've tried this > with MS DOS PKZIP verion 2.04g and with Winzip but I got the same results > with both. > > Any ideas about what's wrong? > > Joe > > From ismith at quickvoice.co.za Wed Jan 30 03:24:41 2002 From: ismith at quickvoice.co.za (Iain Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <01C1A980.B70A5420.ismith@quickvoice.co.za> Looking for interface to ide from JVC Hard Drive Model JD3824R00-1. Also looking for system setup files for Nixdorf 8810 M15 Iain Smith mailto:ismith@quickvoice.co.za From fauradon at frontiernet.net Wed Jan 30 07:31:06 2002 From: fauradon at frontiernet.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: Remove References: <200201300715.CAA27690@ablealarms.com> Message-ID: <000801c1a992$5f842660$0264640a@frontiernet.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Willis" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 11:10 PM Subject: A Special Announcement From Dish Network and the Armor Security Corporation > Armor Alarms Promotion > > Click To Order > > This message is sent in compliance with the new email bill section 301. Under Bill S.1618 TITLE III passed by the 105th US Congress, this message cannot be considered SPAM as long as we include the way to be removed, Paragraph (a)(c) of S.1618, further transmissions to you by the sender of this email may be stopped at no cost to you by sending a Reply email with the words "Remove" written in the Subject line. > > From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Jan 30 10:14:10 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: A Special Announcement From Dish Network and the Armor Security Corporation In-Reply-To: <200201300715.CAA27690@ablealarms.com> Message-ID: Did this joker susbscribe to the list, spam it and then un-sub? On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Jonathan Willis wrote: > [blnk.gif] [blnk.gif] > > Click To Order > > the sender of this email may be stopped at no cost to you by sending a > Reply email with the words "Remove" written in the Subject line. Which in turn will verify that your address is indeed valid and your incoming spam rate will rise by at least 2 orders of magnitude after they sell your address to a few thousand more spammers. g. From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 30 10:32:08 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: A Special Announcement From Dish Network and the Armor Security Corporation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Gene Buckle wrote: > Did this joker susbscribe to the list, spam it and then un-sub? He appears to have sub'd, harvested the addresses, and moved on. (Yes, I got a copy of this spam too) -Toth From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Jan 30 09:40:08 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: HP 9000 800/G40 battery?/cable Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1A1A382D@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Ok guys, The only other person I've been able to contact regarding this HP console cable tells me that there are only 2 pins connected on his cable too, so I'm going to assume the cable -- since it works -- is correct. :) I can still post a "corrected" pin mapping, though. Anyway, on to the next problem. How does the battery backup system work? My understanding is that there's a battery in each PSU, and when you lose power, those batteries will maintain the RAM contents. The machine should then resume in-place when the power comes back. Is this right? Here is why I'm confused: The charging light came on when I first plugged the machine in. It went off a while later. So it seems to think the battery is charged. I tried to test this last night, by plugging the system into a surge bar with a disconnect switch. I booted the system, ran some programs, and cut the power. After about 20 seconds, I applied power again. At this point the machine will boot -- noticing, and warning me that there was a power failure -- and bring the system up in the normal "hey, you didn't unmount this disk properly" fashion. As far as I can tell, none of the processes I'd left running were there. There is a configurable variable in the kernel -- something to do with power failure -- I have tried this twice with the variable set to both 1 and 0. What am I missing? At this point I'd like to find out whether it's likely to be operator error before I go poking around for the batteries. :) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 30 10:27:43 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) In-Reply-To: <3C570985.32347.E39BF10@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > I had heard a while ago that you could still get the pens from Radio Shack. > Likely by special order. Possibly...I imagine they want $2-4 or more for them though. It sure would have been better to have 100s of sets of them to give away on classiccmp. Anyone on the list in Dallas? I think RS still has an outlet store there. Might be able to talk them into selling the pens really cheap if you buy them *all*. From the sounds of it, lots of folks here on the list still need them. -Toth From bpope at wordstock.com Wed Jan 30 10:07:13 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: PKZIP problem In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020130104720.007d6ae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Jan 30, 02 10:47:20 am Message-ID: <200201301607.LAA24763@wordstock.com> And thusly Joe spake: > > same thing. It copies all the files including those in the subdirectories > but when you use PKUNZIP all the files are placed in one directory > therefore losing the directory structure and overwritng any files that have Use the argument '-d' when using PKUNZIP to preserve directory structure. Cheers, Bryan From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Jan 30 10:08:38 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: PKZIP problem In-Reply-To: Joe's message of "Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:47:20 -0500" References: <3.0.6.32.20020130104720.007d6ae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200201301608.g0UG8ca38551@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Joe wrote: > same thing. It copies all the files including those in the subdirectories > but when you use PKUNZIP all the files are placed in one directory > therefore losing the directory structure and overwritng any files that have PKUNZIP -d ^^ this is important -Frank McConnell From LFessen106 at aol.com Wed Jan 30 10:17:36 2002 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: PKZIP problem Message-ID: <18f.296d056.298976a0@aol.com> In a message dated 1/30/02 10:51:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, rigdonj@cfl.rr.com writes: > . > > Well I've been trying to get either one to work for the last hour and I > haven't had any luck. -$a: ties to create a .ZIP file by the name of -&sa: > but that's illegal so it errors out. -rp, -rP, -Pr and -pr all do that > same thing. It copies all the files including those in the subdirectories > but when you use PKUNZIP all the files are placed in one directory > therefore losing the directory structure and overwritng any files that have > same names but that came from different subdirectories. I've tried this > with MS DOS PKZIP verion 2.04g and with Winzip but I got the same results > with both. > > Any ideas about what's wrong? > > You are doing fine... From DOS you can do a: pkzip -rp zipname to recoursively zip all your files and then unzip them into their correct directory structure by doing a: pkunzip -d zipname Just tried it an it works great and even keeps empty directories for ya. I am using pkzip/unzip for DOS version 2.04g... -Linc. In The Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... Calculating in binary code is as easy as 01,10,11. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020130/e9845616/attachment.html From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Jan 30 10:34:45 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: PKZIP problem In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020130104720.007d6ae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: I think it's actually doing what you want, but the problem is your 'unzip' command. You need '-d' to tell PKUNZIP to create directories, instead of dumping everything in the current directory. Use the '-v' option to look at the .ZIP file directory structure. I frequently use 'pkzip -rp thisthat.zip a:\' to create archives of floppies. Add '-j' if you want read-only/hidden/system files in the archive. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 10:47 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: PKZIP problem > > > OK all you brains out there. See if you can answer this one. > How can I > make PKZIP include ALL the files on a disk INCLUDING those in sub > directories and the sub directories themselves. Easy, you say? Go try it. > The help menu says that -r will make it recurse sub directories > and that -p > will make it save the directory names and -P will make it save the sub > directory names even if they're empty. OR it says that you can use > -&s[drive] to copy an entire drive. > > Well I've been trying to get either one to work for the last hour and I > haven't had any luck. -$a: ties to create a .ZIP file by the name of -&sa: > but that's illegal so it errors out. -rp, -rP, -Pr and -pr all do that > same thing. It copies all the files including those in the subdirectories > but when you use PKUNZIP all the files are placed in one directory > therefore losing the directory structure and overwritng any files > that have > same names but that came from different subdirectories. I've tried this > with MS DOS PKZIP verion 2.04g and with Winzip but I got the same results > with both. > > Any ideas about what's wrong? > > Joe > > From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 30 01:54:33 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: Not-so-OT point of philosophy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020130014802.R22989-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Before all of you cry off-topic, doesn't it seem odd to anyone we're now > full circle and back to low-power terminals connected to a "mainframe," > now that corporate America has gotten off its fat client kick? Some never left. For instance, the cash registers at the local Hastings 'entertainment superstore' have always been dumb terms connected to a physically large Dell-branded box that lives in the same room as the safe. Speaking of cash registers: I wish there was a SHL operation that took mine as an operand. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Jan 30 02:47:29 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: New line of VAX 6000s! Message-ID: Wow, the design of this baby is even more revolutionary than Apple's new iMac-- http://www.vax.co.uk/ My guess is the black hose coming out of the side is used to circulate some sort of coolant to the process from overheating. -brian. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 30 09:57:23 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: New line of VAX 6000s! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020130155723.39410.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> --- Brian Chase wrote: > Wow, the design of this baby is even more revolutionary than Apple's new > iMac-- http://www.vax.co.uk/ My guess is the black hose coming out of > the side is used to circulate some sort of coolant to the process from > overheating. Wow! A 6130! They fit three processors in that little enclosure... must not be XMI ;-) (Yes... I've heard of the VAX company in England... the joke going around over a decade ago was "Nothing sucks like a VAX"). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Wed Jan 30 03:36:37 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: a VAX 11/780 in my garage ... References: <3C563EB4.9030103@aurora.regenstrief.org> <15446.16329.254387.639479@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3C56AC92.42422BA6@Vishay.com> <15447.572.814425.807608@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3C57BEA5.D68F8B2A@Vishay.com> Dave, the systems are still in the process of being reassembled after relocation. You're not the first to ask for pictures, but I think you're the one to convince me to take that little digital camera from the office and get some snapshots for you. I'm pretty new to this forum, so I'll have to find out how you post pictures here, but I've already seen that it can be done. Stay tuned! Andreas P.S.: The above translates to "I don't want you to see all that dust on the machines, it could break your heart!" Dave McGuire wrote: > > On January 29, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > > This is just about right for a PDP-11/34A, a PDP-11/23, and a > > Micro-PDP-11/23PLUS and their peripherals, such as LA36 and LA120 > > printing terminals, and two-and-a-half 19" racks of diskette (8", of > > course, what'd you think? ;^), disk, and tape drives. Not much left to > > feed a MicroVAX, however - sigh... > > Pictures! Pictures!! > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire > St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 30 10:00:25 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: a VAX 11/780 in my garage ... In-Reply-To: <3C57BEA5.D68F8B2A@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <20020130095713.K24008-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > > I'll have to find out how you post pictures here, but I've already seen > that it can be done. Make them available via HTTP or FTP. Do not post them as attachments, please. I have a fast pipe, but others here do not. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Jan 30 00:51:01 2002 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: Docs for QBus cards wanted In-Reply-To: <3C5778A0.2030804@aurora.regenstrief.org> References: <20020130002335.C80544@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020129225009.025d6e10@209.185.79.193> I thought I had put it up already. You can find it at: --Chuck At 11:37 PM 1/29/02 -0500, Gunther Schadow wrote: >Jochen Kunz wrote: > >>Hi. >>I am currently working on a NetBSD driver for the RX01/02 floppy disk >>drive. (As an example for a device driver writing HOWTO.) To continue my >>kernel hacking when this is finished, I am looking for docs for the >>folowing cards: >>M7616 KXJ11-CA J11 CPU, 512-Kbyte RAM, 64-Kbyte >>PROM >>This is a PDP 11 on a QBus slave card, used as universal intelligent >>peripheral controller. (Wouldn't it be nice to have a PDP 11 >>co-processor runing some 2.xBSD in a VAX? ;-) ) >>M3118-YA CXA16-A 16-line Asynchronous Multiplexor >> Refs: EK-CAB16-TM, EK-CAB16-UG > > >I send this one to Chuck McManis, apparently he's working >on that too. I cannot possibly ship it through my modem >right now. > > >>M3119-YA CXY08-A 8-Line Asynchronous Multiplexor >> Refs: EK-CXY08-TM > > >-- >Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org >Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care >Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine >tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org > > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 30 00:59:38 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: Docs for QBus cards wanted In-Reply-To: <15447.12311.423984.652325@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20020130065938.8536.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com> --- Dave McGuire wrote: > On January 30, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > ...I am looking for docs for the folowing cards: > > > > M7616 KXJ11-CA J11 CPU, 512-Kbyte RAM, 64-Kbyte > > PROM > > This is a PDP 11 on a QBus slave card, used as universal intelligent > > peripheral controller. (Wouldn't it be nice to have a PDP 11 > > co-processor runing some 2.xBSD in a VAX? ;-) ) > > Oh I would seriously *dig* this. :-) It would be great to be able > to squirt arbitrary code into that card from a userland process. 8-) That's what we did with the COMBOARDs (1981 - 1994) - they have a window register near the CSR, through which you poke values into memory on the board to load a board that had just been rebooted. I don't know abouy the KXJ11, but the COMBOARDs also have a way for the host CPU to restart the serial-card CPU. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Jan 30 08:03:17 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) Message-ID: Since the 95LX uses MS-DOS 3.22, it is limited to a flash disk of at most 32MB, so you would need to try either the 8MB, 20MB or 30MB packages. I haven't tried any of them, so I don't know if they will work with the 95LX's screen either. The 95LX requires drivers to use flash cards. I can send you ones for SunDisk (SanDisk) cards if you need them. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Cameron Kaiser [mailto:spectre@stockholm.ptloma.edu] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 7:36 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?) > Nah, you can put Minix on an HP LX palmtop, which is smaller and lighter > than a Poqet (see http://www.technoir.nu/hplx/minix.html). Any hope of this coming out for the 95LX? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Mistakes are often the stepping stones to catastrophic failure. ------------ From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jan 30 00:40:28 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: DesqView In-Reply-To: DesqView (Gareth Knight) References: <3C558C16.31906.8678E5E@localhost> <003101c1a90c$a8190c00$0d03a8c0@amigans> Message-ID: <15447.38236.24147.232638@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 29, Gareth Knight wrote: > No wonder has mentioned this, so I thought I would throw it into the Classic > mixer: > > http://slashdot.org/articles/02/01/27/1950244.shtml > Quote: > "It seems Symantec (purchasers of former company Quarterdeck) has release > DeskView/X into public domain and can be downloaded now. DesqView/X was a ... I wanted to grab this, but the web server mentioned in the article is refusing connections on port 80. Anybody know what's going on, or did anyone manage to grab it? -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From gknight at emugaming.com Wed Jan 30 04:24:09 2002 From: gknight at emugaming.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: DesqView References: <3C558C16.31906.8678E5E@localhost><003101c1a90c$a8190c00$0d03a8c0@amigans> <15447.38236.24147.232638@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <000c01c1a978$41f92060$0d03a8c0@amigans> Dave McGuire wrote: > On January 29, Gareth Knight wrote: > > No wonder has mentioned this, Obviously that should have been 'No one has mentioned this'. > I wanted to grab this, but the web server mentioned in the article > is refusing connections on port 80. Anybody know what's going on, or > did anyone manage to grab it? Try http://www.chsoft.com/dv.html -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide - the largest Amiga history site on the net http://amiga.emugaming.com | http://www.amigau.com/aig/index.html (new mirror, no popups!) From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Wed Jan 30 02:03:03 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: DesqView Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E03@BUSH02> > http://slashdot.org/articles/02/01/27/1950244.shtml ... I wanted to grab this, but the web server mentioned in the article is refusing connections on port 80. Anybody know what's going on, or did anyone manage to grab it? Scroll further down the article to the comments, there's an alternate link that seems to work. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Jan 30 09:14:42 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: DesqView Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1A1A382C@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Zane H. Healy [mailto:healyzh@aracnet.com] > Has anyone been able to access the site they claimed had it > for download? > I've wanted a copy of this since it came out! Does Symantec > have their own > download site? Try this: http://www.clarkson.edu/~vryhofab/wserv/freedv/ Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From RCini at congressfinancial.com Wed Jan 30 09:46:19 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: DesqView Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E587A1FB@MAIL10> Right site but clicking all download links produce "page not found" errors here. Rich -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Smith [mailto:csmith@amdocs.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 10:15 AM To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: DesqView > -----Original Message----- > From: Zane H. Healy [mailto:healyzh@aracnet.com] > Has anyone been able to access the site they claimed had it > for download? > I've wanted a copy of this since it came out! Does Symantec > have their own > download site? Try this: http://www.clarkson.edu/~vryhofab/wserv/freedv/ Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 30 01:43:16 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: Recent finds at the surplus shop II In-Reply-To: <20020130010359.D22989-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20020130013542.E22989-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Also at the surplus shop was an HP 7221C tabletop plotter for $10. Having seen a *huge* plotter in action in person in my youth when touring Burford Corp. (the small company in my old hometown that makes the machines that make bread ties), I've always thought a plotter would be cool to play with. Is this unit worth it? It looks on-topic, but I'm not finding much about it by googling. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 30 01:23:53 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: Recent finds at the surplus shop Message-ID: <20020130010359.D22989-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> I bought a few things from the local university's surplus shop today. First, I needed a printer, my ink-guzzler having recently become unavailable. I found a LaserJet II, which should work nicely for what I need to do. It's also on-topic and looks it (in a good way). I'm guessing I'll want to get a 4MB memory module and a Postscript module for it. That stuff looks to be decently available on eBay. Cost: $25. I also picked up a microfiche viewer, as I have some manuals on fiche cards that I'd like to see. Cost: $10. I hope these things actually work... -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jan 30 09:38:36 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: Recent finds at the surplus shop References: <20020130010359.D22989-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <001b01c1a9a4$2f025fe0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 12:23 AM Subject: Recent finds at the surplus shop > I bought a few things from the local university's surplus shop today. > > First, I needed a printer, my ink-guzzler having recently become > unavailable. I found a LaserJet II, which should work nicely for what I > need to do. It's also on-topic and looks it (in a good way). I'm > guessing I'll want to get a 4MB memory module and a Postscript module for > it. That stuff looks to be decently available on eBay. Cost: $25. > > I also picked up a microfiche viewer, as I have some manuals on fiche > cards that I'd like to see. Cost: $10. > > I hope these things actually work... > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@subatomix.com > > From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 30 10:41:45 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: Recent finds at the surplus shop In-Reply-To: <001b01c1a9a4$2f025fe0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20020130104100.H24008-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Whoops. What were you trying to say? -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 30 10:39:04 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: PKZIP problem In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020130104720.007d6ae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20020130101739.C24008-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Joe wrote: > OK all you brains out there. See if you can answer this one. How can I > make PKZIP include ALL the files on a disk INCLUDING those in sub > directories and the sub directories themselves. > Well I've been trying to get either one to work for the last hour and I > haven't had any luck. -$a: ties to create a .ZIP file by the name of > -&sa: but that's illegal so it errors out. -rp, -rP, -Pr and -pr all do > that same thing. Use the right format for the pkzip command. See below. > It copies all the files including those in the subdirectories but when > you use PKUNZIP all the files are placed in one directory therefore > losing the directory structure and overwritng any files that have same > names but that came from different subdirectories. Use the -d option to pkunzip. > I've tried this with MS DOS PKZIP verion 2.04g and with Winzip but I got > the same results with both. C:\>pkzip -rp d:\foo.zip d:\*.* PKZIP (R) FAST! Create/Update Utility Version 2.04g 02-01-93 Copr. 1989-1993 PKWARE Inc. All Rights Reserved. Shareware Version PKZIP Reg. U.S. Pat. and Tm. Off. Patent No. 5,051,745 . 80486 CPU detected. . XMS version 2.00 detected. . DPMI version 0.90 detected. . Using Normal Compression. Creating ZIP: D:/FOO.ZIP Adding: BARBAZ/ Storing ( 0%), done. Adding: FOOBAR/ Storing ( 0%), done. Adding: GREENBG.GIF Deflating (53%), done. Adding: FOOBAR/GREENBG.GIF Deflating (53%), done. C:\>pkzip -v d:\foo.zip PKZIP (R) FAST! Create/Update Utility Version 2.04g 02-01-93 Copr. 1989-1993 PKWARE Inc. All Rights Reserved. Shareware Version PKZIP Reg. U.S. Pat. and Tm. Off. Patent No. 5,051,745 . 80486 CPU detected. . XMS version 2.00 detected. . DPMI version 0.90 detected. Searching ZIP: D:/FOO.ZIP Length Method Size Ratio Date Time CRC-32 Attr Name ------ ------ ----- ----- ---- ---- -------- ---- ---- 0 Stored 0 0% 01-30-02 10:31 00000000 --wD BARBAZ/ 0 Stored 0 0% 01-30-02 10:31 00000000 --wD FOOBAR/ 78 DeflatN 37 53% 01-09-02 01:36 70bae4e1 --w- GREENBG.GIF 78 DeflatN 37 53% 01-09-02 01:36 70bae4e1 --w- FOOBAR/GREENBG.GIF ------ ------ --- ------- 156 74 53% 4 C:\>d: D:\>mkdir quux D:\>cd quux D:\quux>pkunzip -d ..\foo.zip PKUNZIP (R) FAST! Extract Utility Version 2.04g 02-01-93 Copr. 1989-1993 PKWARE Inc. All Rights Reserved. Shareware Version PKUNZIP Reg. U.S. Pat. and Tm. Off. . 80486 CPU detected. . XMS version 2.00 detected. . DPMI version 0.90 detected. Searching ZIP: ../FOO.ZIP Extracting: BARBAZ/ Extracting: FOOBAR/ Inflating: GREENBG.GIF Inflating: FOOBAR/GREENBG.GIF -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jan 30 10:42:02 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: New line of VAX 6000s! References: <20020130155723.39410.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C58225A.FB343E85@jetnet.ab.ca> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Brian Chase wrote: > > Wow, the design of this baby is even more revolutionary than Apple's new > > iMac-- http://www.vax.co.uk/ My guess is the black hose coming out of > > the side is used to circulate some sort of coolant to the process from > > overheating. > > Wow! A 6130! They fit three processors in that little enclosure... must > not be XMI ;-) Nope you have it all WRONG, it is the Bit Bucket option for all the loose 0's and 1's found when a program crashes. They can be rather hard on the carpet, generate static electricty and slow programs down to a crawl. Note you also get: BBW Branch Both Ways BEW Branch Either Way BBBF Branch on Bit Bucket Full BH Branch and Hang BMR Branch Multiple Registers BOB Branch On Bug BPO Branch on Power Off BST Backspace and Stretch Tape CDS Condense and Destroy System CLBR Clobber Register CLBRI Clobber Register Immediately CM Circulate Memory -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Jan 30 10:44:59 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: New line of VAX 6000s! Message-ID: I've allways liked the tag line quoting Ernst Jan Plugge: "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners." Bob -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 9:57 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: New line of VAX 6000s! --- Brian Chase wrote: > Wow, the design of this baby is even more revolutionary than Apple's new > iMac-- http://www.vax.co.uk/ My guess is the black hose coming out of > the side is used to circulate some sort of coolant to the process from > overheating. Wow! A 6130! They fit three processors in that little enclosure... must not be XMI ;-) (Yes... I've heard of the VAX company in England... the joke going around over a decade ago was "Nothing sucks like a VAX"). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Jan 30 10:47:56 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: New line of VAX 6000s! In-Reply-To: <20020130155723.39410.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com>; from erd_6502@yahoo.com on Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 07:57:23AM -0800 References: <20020130155723.39410.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020130174756.A20671@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 07:57:23AM -0800, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > http://www.vax.co.uk/ > Wow! A 6130! They fit three processors in that little enclosure... must > not be XMI ;-) And that with only 1300 watts and 7.3 kg weight! Have a look at http://www.openbsd.org/vax.html > (Yes... I've heard of the VAX company in England... the joke going around > over a decade ago was "Nothing sucks like a VAX"). It is a pleasure to be sucked. ;-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Jan 30 10:55:43 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: DesqView Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1A1A3831@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Cini, Richard [mailto:RCini@congressfinancial.com] > Right site but clicking all download links produce "page not > found" errors > here. Ok, this one seems like it might work: http://www.chsoft.com/dv.html Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 30 11:10:59 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: Recent finds at the surplus shop II In-Reply-To: <20020130013542.E22989-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > Also at the surplus shop was an HP 7221C tabletop plotter for $10. > Having seen a *huge* plotter in action in person in my youth when > touring Burford Corp. (the small company in my old hometown that makes > the machines that make bread ties), I've always thought a plotter > would be cool to play with. Is this unit worth it? It looks > on-topic, but I'm not finding much about it by googling. Well, if you got the pen carousel with it, you got a very good deal. I've had a hard time in the past finding the various carousels for HP plotters (well, at sane prices anyway). I've got a pair of similar 8 pen plotters packed away. These were quite fun to watch when running. IIRC these plotters need a special serial cable, I imagine someone here has the info on it. -Toth From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 30 11:23:47 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: A Special Announcement From Dish Network and the Armor Security Corporation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020130110919.S24008-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > Did this joker susbscribe to the list, spam it and then un-sub? > > He appears to have sub'd, harvested the addresses, and moved on. (Yes, > I got a copy of this spam too) I'm getting noticeably more spam per day now too. I think I'll change my email address used for this list, and in the future all mail to this list will be From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" . I still get more spam from my university than from any other place. No, I don't want to buy a class ring. No, I don't want to help the football team fight cancer. You get the picture. I responded angrily to a college spammer once, demanding that my address be removed from their list. The next day I was summoned to the Dean of Engineering's office and asked why I had sent such hateful, vulgar email to his secretary. They demanded an apology, citing the anti-free-speech rules that the University of Oklahoma has. I almost sued the hell out of them, but I was a weenie and caved in. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Wed Jan 30 11:45:38 2002 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: More HP1000's, and bootstrapping old systems in general. Message-ID: Did a little research and found the FST description at: http://www.hp.com/products1/rte/tech_support/documentation/documentation1/92077-90249.pdf Not sure if I'll have time to tackle this or not. If anyone else decides to write an application to decode the data, I'd be interested in the results. See ya, SteveRob >From: "Bill McDermith" >Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >To: >Subject: Re: More HP1000's, and bootstrapping old systems in general. >Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 10:39:08 -0700 > >The manuals are available from HP, and I believe that the format for these >files are in the back of the backup manual... I'm not sure if the manuals >are on the interex site, but if you go into the RTE section of hp support, >you can download them there... > >Bill >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bob Shannon" >To: >Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 5:38 PM >Subject: Re: More HP1000's, and bootstrapping old systems in general. > > > > Hmmm, does anyone on interex understand this format? > > > > Bill McDermith wrote: > > > > > >From the hp users group, interex, you can get the RTE-6 OS, but only > > > in fst format, which is some sort of tape dump/backup format that I > > > cannot (yet) decode, so I'm not sure how to build a loadable system... > > > The manuals are also available... If anyone knows how to decode >...snip...snip...snip... > > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 30 03:10:07 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002 blstuart@bellsouth.net wrote: > I do have the first one I ever owned. It's a microprocessor trainer from > Motorola. It's got a 4801 (a little CMOS version of the 6800) and all of > 256 bytes of memory. The interface is 8 toggle switches for data, 8 LEDs > for output and 3 toggle switches for control. It even had a cassette > interface. Cool. What's the model number? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 30 03:21:37 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: A Special Announcement From Dish Network and the Armor Security Corporation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > Did this joker susbscribe to the list, spam it and then un-sub? > > He appears to have sub'd, harvested the addresses, and moved on. You don't need to be a subscriber to post a message to classiccmp. I think 3 spams in one month is enough evidence that perhaps we need to finally do away with this convenient anachronism. It's unfortunate but I think it's in the best interest of our beloved mailing list. > (Yes, I got a copy of this spam too) Of course, as did everyone else who is currently subscribed :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 30 03:27:04 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: New line of VAX 6000s! In-Reply-To: <20020130174756.A20671@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 07:57:23AM -0800, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > http://www.vax.co.uk/ > > Wow! A 6130! They fit three processors in that little enclosure... must > > not be XMI ;-) > And that with only 1300 watts and 7.3 kg weight! > > Have a look at http://www.openbsd.org/vax.html You watch. In about 10 years time (or probably less) when they start embedding microprocessors into vacuum cleaners and adding internet connectivity (so that you can vacuum your house from the office of course!) some smart ass will port OpenBSD to it just to render the above webpage nonfictional. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jan 30 12:27:37 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: New line of VAX 6000s! In-Reply-To: Ben Franchuk "Re: New line of VAX 6000s!" (Jan 30, 9:42) References: <20020130155723.39410.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> <3C58225A.FB343E85@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <10201301827.ZM21551@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> No, it's for the holes... On Jan 30, 9:42, Ben Franchuk wrote: > Nope you have it all WRONG, it is the Bit Bucket option > for all the loose 0's and 1's found when a program crashes. > They can be rather hard on the carpet, generate static electricty > and slow programs down to a crawl. Paraphrasing slightly from Matthew Skala on alt.folklore.computers: All perfectly correct, except you forgot to mention: In modern implementations, data sent to the bit bucket are destroyed by combining the binary 1s and 0s in the Neuman reaction [1], (eqn. 1) 1#0 -> 2p where # is the logical annihilation operator, and p is Plonk's Constant, 0.172 J [2]. The resulting heat is fed back to the power supply and used to replace the voltages of the destroyed bits. Unfortunately, this reaction requires equal amounts of 1 and 0 bits. Modern PCs, especially those used in desktop publishing by unskilled personnel, often generate an excess of 0 bits corresponding, for example, to whitespace in printed documents. These unwanted zeros can accumulate into plaques on the system bus, causing a reduction in bus rate and eventual total catastrophic system seizure [3]. Current techniques involve breaking the zero and unrolling it into a one. See Figure 1, below. | _ __ \ | / \ \ \ | | | ---> | ---> | ---> | \_/ __/ / | / | | Figure 1. Unrolling a zero. (15000x electron micrographs courtesy Pugwash Memorial Hospital Research Department) This 1 can be annihilated with another extra 0 by equation 1, leaving to be disposed only the hole from the middle of the unrolled 0. Holes are accumulated in a special Hole Accumulation Hemisphere (HAH) at the bottom of the power supply filter capacitors, until they can be removed by a qualified service technician. Used holes are currently being re-refined, cast in larger units, and sold to the doughnut industry [4]. It is important that beginning users not attempt to empty their own HAHs. The accumulated holes, in addition to being invisible, are an environmental hazard and should not be placed in the normal office waste stream. There have been cases of holes getting into important documents [5], or merging to form chunks large enough for personnel to fall in [6]. Uncontrolled holes are a very real danger and must be taken seriously, especially in critical government and medical applications [7]. References [1] Neuman, A.E. Safe, secure destruction of data. Journal of Data Erasure Technologies. 5:17, 23-69. [2] Plonk, Anvilsko. Heat value of data: a retrospective. Home Heating News. 65, 19. [3] Kevorkian, J. Case studies in busclerotic CPU arrest. Journal of Systems Rescusitation. 2:12, 143-145. [4] Dibbler, C.M.O.T. An alternative to traditional hole suppliers. Baking Quarterly. 1996:3, 7-17. [5] Kaputnik, H. I ha no l ers nd must sc . Writer's Weekly. 28:42, 94-98. [6] Eating Corporation of America. Unpublished memo, subject: "Where the f--- is Waldo?" [7] Rubble, B. The 18 1/2 minute gap: Another view. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From lyn40 at bigfoot.com Wed Jan 30 12:28:37 2002 From: lyn40 at bigfoot.com (Lyn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: Amstrad 1512DD - For Sale Message-ID: We have a Amstrad 1512dd, monitor, keyboard, mouse, dmp3000 printer with loads of paper, dust covers plus original Gem software & about 40 5.25" discs. System used approx 10 hours since purchased new in 1987. Mint Condition and perfect working order. All offers considered. L.Suffolk --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.314 / Virus Database: 175 - Release Date: 11/01/02 From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 30 12:28:11 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:23 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467579@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <20020130182811.68977.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> > > But I think that in a day or 2 I'll probably be tied for the > > *smallest* classic Unix box in the house. Part of this weekend's haul > > was an SE/30, I found an ethernet adapter today, and I went to storage > > this evening and dug out the 4M 30-pin SIMM stash. A/UX here I > come.... A/UX runs on SE/30s? My smallest UNIX boxes are either my PS/2 model E (the size of a single volume of an encyclopaedia w/2.5" hard disk, 1 ISA slot and a quad- PCMCIA adapter) or one of my keyboard PCs (a 5"x5" main board, with a 2.5" HD and laptop floppy, built-in NE2K NIC, stashed in a 2"-tall metal frame that is bolted to a standard-sized 101 key keyboard). Both are running RedHat. The PS/2-E does *not* have the LCD monitor that came with it originally, but at least it was only $15 when I got it. If a monitor is "required" to complete the system, I would have to say that I typically used it with a Compaq Aero laptop - a sub-notebook about 40% the size of the PS/2-E - and Kermit on a serial line for a console, not a keyboard and tube. -ethan -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From philpem at btinternet.com Wed Jan 30 12:38:54 2002 From: philpem at btinternet.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: Sharp CE-515P - need more pens! (also: Multitech MPF) Message-ID: <001701c1a9bd$5f241d80$5daa7ad5@phoenix> On Tue, 29 Jan 2002 at 21:19:35 -0500, Joe wrote: > At 10:03 PM 1/29/02 -0000, you wrote: > >Hi, > > A few of you might remember my Sharp CE-515P plotter. Well, my pens are > >almost completely devoid of ink and I need more. I know All Electronics sell > >a pack of 4x black pens, but I'm after the four coloured ones (blue, green, > >red and black). I'd really like to keep this thing running, but if I can't > >get the pens then I'm afraid I'm going to have to relegate it to the > >cupboard... > > I bought both black and colored pens a few years ago. I THINK I got them > from Goldmine Electronics. You should check with them. Besides their prices > are a lot better than All's. The same Goldmine Electronics whose website is located at www.goldmine-elec.com ? Hmm... I've just had a look in the "Computer Parts" section and there's no sign of any plotter pens... If Goldmine do sell them, can someone PLEASE tell me what catalogue page they're on? Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@bigfoot.com http://www.philpem.btinternet.co.uk/ From jrasite at eoni.com Wed Jan 30 12:46:01 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) References: Message-ID: <3C583E47.8CA8131@eoni.com> If we're still talking about HP pens, I have a big (about 18x24x10 inches) box of them. If you need them, make me an offer I can't refuse. All are outdated and most are still in sealed packages. Jim Tothwolf wrote: > > On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > I had heard a while ago that you could still get the pens from Radio Shack. > > Likely by special order. > > Possibly...I imagine they want $2-4 or more for them though. It sure would > have been better to have 100s of sets of them to give away on classiccmp. > > Anyone on the list in Dallas? I think RS still has an outlet store there. > Might be able to talk them into selling the pens really cheap if you buy > them *all*. From the sounds of it, lots of folks here on the list still > need them. > > -Toth From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Wed Jan 30 10:36:48 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: A Special Announcement From Dish Network and the Armor SecurityCorporation References: Message-ID: <3C582120.5D53C43A@Vishay.com> Maybe slightly OT, but... Right! The best way to fight spam is not to react at all: even spammers will let dead people alone. However, there's one thing that is even better than playing "dead man": "teergrubing" (see http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/teergrube.html for the word, and if that sounds interesting, the FAQ is http://www.iks-jena.de/mitarb/lutz/usenet/teergrube.en.html) I love the idea! Andreas Gene Buckle wrote: > > Did this joker susbscribe to the list, spam it and then un-sub? > > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Jonathan Willis wrote: > > > [blnk.gif] [blnk.gif] > > > > Click To Order > > > > the sender of this email may be stopped at no cost to you by sending a > > Reply email with the words "Remove" written in the Subject line. > > Which in turn will verify that your address is indeed valid and your > incoming spam rate will rise by at least 2 orders of magnitude after they > sell your address to a few thousand more spammers. > > g. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 30 12:47:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: A Special Announcement From Dish Network and the Armor Security Corporation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > > > Did this joker susbscribe to the list, spam it and then un-sub? > > > > He appears to have sub'd, harvested the addresses, and moved on. > > You don't need to be a subscriber to post a message to classiccmp. I > think 3 spams in one month is enough evidence that perhaps we need to > finally do away with this convenient anachronism. It's unfortunate but I > think it's in the best interest of our beloved mailing list. Ah, didn't know that. Most all the other mailing lists I'm on have switched to moderated posts from non subscribers for the same reason. > > (Yes, I got a copy of this spam too) > > Of course, as did everyone else who is currently subscribed :) I didn't look at the reply-to address earlier, but I later saw that it was sent directly to the list. -Toth From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 30 12:50:13 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: A Special Announcement From Dish Network and the Armor Security Corporation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > You don't need to be a subscriber to post a message to classiccmp. I > think 3 spams in one month is enough evidence that perhaps we need to > finally do away with this convenient anachronism. It's unfortunate but I > think it's in the best interest of our beloved mailing list. What are the BENEFITS of having open posting? How often do we get non-subscribers posting about stuff to rescue? Is THREE enough to warrant closing it? > > (Yes, I got a copy of this spam too) > Of course, as did everyone else who is currently subscribed :) I DIDN'T!! I really don't think that I got it and failed to see it. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 30 12:50:24 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020130185024.41196.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike Ford wrote: > How many people on this list still have their 1st computer? second? > third? > every computer you ever used/owned? The first computer I spent any length of time in front of (not counting school/boy scout trips to places that had computers) was something owned by the Columbus Public Schools. It used mark-sense cards and had a single-line alphanumeric display, possibly a 14-segment per character amber flourescent display, with a "lazy T" prompt. The prompt was distinctive - it had the right most segments set and the middle segment set - like a 7-segment "3" missing the top and bottom horizontal segments. It didn't do much. I have no idea who the vendor was, but it was no larger than a desk-top calculator on a pedestal card. They took it from school to school on career days and the like, circa 1976. The next one I played with was a Plato terminal at OSU, and a DECwriter II with acoustic coupler, dialed into a (I think) RSTS machine to play BASIC games. The first one I had unlimited access to was a 4K PET at the downtown public library, circa 1977. The first one I owned was a 32K PET 2001 w/BASIC 2.0, white phosphor, and a single C2N - $1,100 slightly used (less than a fortnight before it was returned to the dealer by the initial purchaser), in 1978 or 1979. The second one I owned was a Quest Elf kit. Third was a C-64 that I got at my first-ever job, programming it for money six months before it was released (my employer got one direct from C= as a freebie for development). I was 15 when I started using it, 17 when they gave it to me. My first mini was a PDP-8/L - $35 plus some trade goods (the contents of my pockets and everything in my arms at the time) at the Dayton Hamvention in 1982. I didn't see any docs until 1984. I'd mostly fixed it, but I got one M111 out of place near the A40 spot (by the power- fail/restart card) and it didn't *exactly* work until I saw the prints, spotted the gap and moved the right card over one spot to the right place. It's now the one I show off to guests, complete with ASR-33 and high-speed punch and reader. I have, more or less, those first computers and beyond. I say more or less because that first C-64 was replaced under warranty and I don't have that precise one... pity, really... it was S/N 000002007. I _do_ have the replacement, S/N 000002354. The reason it was replaced was that initial VIC chip had a bug that caused it to generate a light-pen interrupt when it got hot (3-4 hours of use in an un-airconditioned room). Since there was no IRQ handler, it went to the blue-on-blue screen with "READY.", as if you hit the RUN-STOP/RESTORE keys. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From r.stek at snet.net Wed Jan 30 13:18:57 2002 From: r.stek at snet.net (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions Message-ID: <001e01c1a9c2$f7544850$0201a8c0@bob> The first computer I used was in '65 - I took a summer course at Stevens Tech and learned FORTRAN on an IBM 1620; I think it was a 7090 which they had also, but only the real geeks could use it, and I wasn't among them. Then in '66 I learned (a little) of 1401 AutoCoder. The freshman year at RPI it was the 360 model 50 - still with punched cards. At the risk of starting a definitions war, I got a TI SR-52 for statistics and games (still have it). Shortly thereafter I put together my Sol-20 (2 weeks of soldering everynight after dinner, and 6 weeks to find the two reversed diodes which prevented it from working)- still have it. I had a RS Model I very briefly - don't have it. Then it was on to a North Star Horizon - still have it, a Morrow Decision 1 (sold it but I found a replacement), and then a PC XT clone and descendents - the only ones in this lineage I still find "cool" are my HP 200LX and Poqet. Of course I used many other - Cromemco, various Rat Shacks, Osborne 1, KayPro, Apple II, Sinclair, PETs, VICs, C-64's, Atari 400-800, TI, Adam, etc. I have since added to my collection an IMSAI, CompuPro, and Ithaca InterSystem, a Lisa 2/5, plus some smaller systems like Ohio Scientific Challenger, Apple II+, Epson PX, KayPro 10, Osborne Executive, Sinclair kit, Mac 512, Color Classic, et al. Sometime in the next xx years I will finish putting together my Mark-8 repro with a TV typewriter. And I know it was a lousy machine, but since I ALMOST bought one instead of my Sol, I'd still like an Altair 8800 (but I don't see many around in my price range lately ). Steve Ciarcia has suggested that someday he MIGHT make me a present of his Digital Group, but I really lust after his Scelbi (and he's smart enough not to leave it to me in his will - how tempted I might be... ) Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jan 30 12:52:13 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: New line of VAX 6000s! In-Reply-To: <10201301827.ZM21551@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: Someone has way too much time on their hands. Wait, that's not time. 8-) Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:27:37 GMT > From: Pete Turnbull > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: New line of VAX 6000s! > > No, it's for the holes... > > On Jan 30, 9:42, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > Nope you have it all WRONG, it is the Bit Bucket option > > for all the loose 0's and 1's found when a program crashes. > > They can be rather hard on the carpet, generate static electricty > > and slow programs down to a crawl. > > Paraphrasing slightly from Matthew Skala on alt.folklore.computers: > > All perfectly correct, except you forgot to mention: > > In modern implementations, data sent to the bit bucket are destroyed by > combining the binary 1s and 0s in the Neuman reaction [1], > > (eqn. 1) 1#0 -> 2p > > where # is the logical annihilation operator, and p is Plonk's Constant, > 0.172 J [2]. The resulting heat is fed back to the power supply and > used to replace the voltages of the destroyed bits. > > Unfortunately, this reaction requires equal amounts of 1 and 0 bits. > Modern PCs, especially those used in desktop publishing by unskilled > personnel, often generate an excess of 0 bits corresponding, for > example, to whitespace in printed documents. These unwanted zeros can > accumulate into plaques on the system bus, causing a reduction in bus > rate and eventual total catastrophic system seizure [3]. > > Current techniques involve breaking the zero and unrolling it into a > one. See Figure 1, below. > > > | > _ __ \ | > / \ \ \ | > | | ---> | ---> | ---> | > \_/ __/ / | > / | > | > Figure 1. > Unrolling a zero. > (15000x electron micrographs courtesy Pugwash > Memorial Hospital Research Department) > > This 1 can be annihilated with another extra 0 by equation 1, leaving to > be disposed only the hole from the middle of the unrolled 0. Holes are > accumulated in a special Hole Accumulation Hemisphere (HAH) at the > bottom of the power supply filter capacitors, until they can be removed > by a qualified service technician. Used holes are currently being > re-refined, cast in larger units, and sold to the doughnut industry [4]. > > It is important that beginning users not attempt to empty their own > HAHs. The accumulated holes, in addition to being invisible, are an > environmental hazard and should not be placed in the normal office waste > stream. There have been cases of holes getting into important documents > [5], or merging to form chunks large enough for personnel to fall in [6]. > Uncontrolled holes are a very real danger and must be taken seriously, > especially in critical government and medical applications [7]. > > References > > [1] Neuman, A.E. Safe, secure destruction of data. Journal of Data > Erasure Technologies. 5:17, 23-69. > [2] Plonk, Anvilsko. Heat value of data: a retrospective. Home Heating > News. 65, 19. > [3] Kevorkian, J. Case studies in busclerotic CPU arrest. Journal of > Systems Rescusitation. 2:12, 143-145. > [4] Dibbler, C.M.O.T. An alternative to traditional hole suppliers. > Baking Quarterly. 1996:3, 7-17. > [5] Kaputnik, H. I ha no l ers nd must sc . Writer's Weekly. > 28:42, 94-98. > [6] Eating Corporation of America. Unpublished memo, subject: "Where > the f--- is Waldo?" > [7] Rubble, B. The 18 1/2 minute gap: Another view. > > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jan 30 13:00:27 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: New line of VAX 6000s! References: Message-ID: <3C5842CB.F9971646@jetnet.ab.ca> Sellam Ismail wrote: > You watch. In about 10 years time (or probably less) when they start > embedding microprocessors into vacuum cleaners and adding internet > connectivity (so that you can vacuum your house from the office of > course!) some smart ass will port OpenBSD to it just to render the above > webpage nonfictional. I am waiting for the lawnmower, cut grass and play computer games at the same time. Teens would be the biggest market. "Yes Mom I am doing the lawn." MOM , "No I mean get off the computer and do it by hand." -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jan 30 12:57:32 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) In-Reply-To: <20020130182811.68977.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > A/UX runs on SE/30s? > > My smallest UNIX boxes are either my PS/2 model E (the size of a single > volume of an encyclopaedia w/2.5" hard disk, 1 ISA slot and a quad- > PCMCIA adapter) or one of my keyboard PCs (a 5"x5" main board, with a > 2.5" HD and laptop floppy, built-in NE2K NIC, stashed in a 2"-tall metal > frame that is bolted to a standard-sized 101 key keyboard). Both are > running RedHat. My smallest UNIX box right now is my TI-92 calculator. Followed closely by a Toshiba Libretto. > The PS/2-E does *not* have the LCD monitor that came with it originally, > but at least it was only $15 when I got it. If a monitor is "required" > to complete the system, I would have to say that I typically used it > with a Compaq Aero laptop - a sub-notebook about 40% the size of the > PS/2-E - and Kermit on a serial line for a console, not a keyboard and > tube. Those monitors are getting kinda hard to find. Peace... Sridhar From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 30 12:58:04 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) In-Reply-To: <20020130182811.68977.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > My smallest UNIX boxes are either my PS/2 model E (the size of a > single volume of an encyclopaedia w/2.5" hard disk, 1 ISA slot and a > quad- PCMCIA adapter) or one of my keyboard PCs (a 5"x5" main board, > with a 2.5" HD and laptop floppy, built-in NE2K NIC, stashed in a > 2"-tall metal frame that is bolted to a standard-sized 101 key > keyboard). Both are running RedHat. Do bare SBC computers count? I had a link to one guy who set up a computer the size of a matchbox, and one the size of a 72 pin SIMM. Both ran Linux and the Apache webserver. > The PS/2-E does *not* have the LCD monitor that came with it > originally, but at least it was only $15 when I got it. If a monitor > is "required" to complete the system, I would have to say that I > typically used it with a Compaq Aero laptop - a sub-notebook about 40% > the size of the PS/2-E - and Kermit on a serial line for a console, > not a keyboard and tube. I've got a Contura Aero myself, tho slightly upgraded since it was bought from Compaq. Mine currently has 20MB of ram and 4GB of hard drive. It originally came with 4MB of ram and 80MB of hard drive. You would not believe the pain and suffering that was involved in getting a non-dos os installed on the thing. If someone has a Contura Aero 4/33C or parts for the Contura Aero line they want to get rid of sometime, send me an email. I've always wanted to add a 4/33C to my collection of unusual systems. -Toth From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jan 30 13:17:27 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > I've got a Contura Aero myself, tho slightly upgraded since it was bought > from Compaq. Mine currently has 20MB of ram and 4GB of hard drive. It > originally came with 4MB of ram and 80MB of hard drive. You would not > believe the pain and suffering that was involved in getting a non-dos os > installed on the thing. Yes, I would. I've installed NetBSD on an IBM PS/1. Peace... Sridhar > If someone has a Contura Aero 4/33C or parts for the Contura Aero line > they want to get rid of sometime, send me an email. I've always wanted to > add a 4/33C to my collection of unusual systems. > > -Toth > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 30 13:19:18 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: PKZIP problem In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020130104720.007d6ae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020130141918.007da550@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:16 AM 1/30/02 -0800, Gene wrote: >Joe, when you unzip with pkunzip, you need to specify "-d" so it will >unpack the directory tree as well. Great! that was the problem. Thanks to Gene and all the other experts that replied. I ASSUMED that PKUNZIP would unpack everything that was in the zip file automaticly. Now I know better. Joe From brian at quarterbyte.com Wed Jan 30 13:47:08 2002 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: A Special Announcement From Dish Network ... Message-ID: <3C57DD3C.19976.8C521AD@localhost> The way to deal with idiots like this is to call his boss and complain. I just did. Good use of 15 cents. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _| _| _| Brian Knittel / Quarterbyte Systems, Inc. _| _| _| Tel: 1-510-559-7930 Fax: 1-510-525-6889 _| _| _| Email: brian@quarterbyte.com _| _| _| http://www.quarterbyte.com From peteg at trufitdata.com Tue Jan 29 15:59:41 2002 From: peteg at trufitdata.com (Peter J. Gerry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: AN/UYKs Message-ID: <8053C68F752FD511A76700C0A8349206161F@PLAYBOX> my friend steve might know about these - he collects them, are they available ? thanks, pete From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Wed Jan 30 14:11:15 2002 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: HP 9000 800/G40 battery?/cable In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1A1A382D@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1A1A382D@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: The batteries are supposed to keep ram intact for a SHORT duration power failure...20 seconds might be longer than they would last..especaially since they are probably 10 year old batteries. It's definetly NOT a full ups system. -Bob >Ok guys, > >The only other person I've been able to contact regarding this >HP console cable tells me that there are only 2 pins connected >on his cable too, so I'm going to assume the cable -- since it >works -- is correct. :) > >I can still post a "corrected" pin mapping, though. > >Anyway, on to the next problem. How does the battery backup >system work? > >My understanding is that there's a battery in each PSU, and >when you lose power, those batteries will maintain the RAM >contents. The machine should then resume in-place when the >power comes back. Is this right? > >Here is why I'm confused: > >The charging light came on when I first plugged the machine >in. It went off a while later. So it seems to think the >battery is charged. > >I tried to test this last night, by plugging the system into >a surge bar with a disconnect switch. I booted the system, >ran some programs, and cut the power. After about 20 >seconds, I applied power again. > >At this point the machine will boot -- noticing, and warning >me that there was a power failure -- and bring the system up >in the normal "hey, you didn't unmount this disk properly" >fashion. As far as I can tell, none of the processes I'd >left running were there. > >There is a configurable variable in the kernel -- something >to do with power failure -- I have tried this twice with the >variable set to both 1 and 0. > >What am I missing? At this point I'd like to find out whether >it's likely to be operator error before I go poking around for >the batteries. :) > >Regards, > >Chris > >Christopher Smith, Perl Developer >Amdocs - Champaign, IL > >/usr/bin/perl -e ' >print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); >' > bbrown@harper.cc.il.us #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 30 14:20:26 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: A Special Announcement From Dish Network ... In-Reply-To: <3C57DD3C.19976.8C521AD@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Brian Knittel wrote: > The way to deal with idiots like this is to call his boss and > complain. I just did. Good use of 15 cents. So does that mean I don't have to call and fax now? :) -Toth From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jan 30 14:44:44 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: PKZIP problem In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020130104720.007d6ae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Joe wrote: > > Any ideas about what's wrong? > That's easy. You're not using tar. It had to be said.... Doc From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jan 30 14:45:55 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: DesqView In-Reply-To: Re: DesqView (Gareth Knight) References: <3C558C16.31906.8678E5E@localhost> <003101c1a90c$a8190c00$0d03a8c0@amigans> <15447.38236.24147.232638@phaduka.neurotica.com> <000c01c1a978$41f92060$0d03a8c0@amigans> Message-ID: <15448.23427.143816.308741@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 30, Gareth Knight wrote: > > I wanted to grab this, but the web server mentioned in the article > > is refusing connections on port 80. Anybody know what's going on, or > > did anyone manage to grab it? > > Try http://www.chsoft.com/dv.html Ahh, there it is. Thanks! :-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Jan 29 15:14:12 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 29 Jan 2002 10:28:58 PST." Message-ID: <200201292114.VAA11775@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Mike Ford said: > How many people on this list still have their 1st computer? second? third? > every computer you ever used/owned? > > The first computer I ever used was a IBM 360 via punched cards in Fortran. > Mine was ICL1904 and NCC Filetab via punched cards. > First I ever sat in front of and worked on directly was an IBM 1130 via > selectric console running a French version of APL. > Same ICL as above... > First I ever owned was a Apple II, which I still have. Same for the next > five I owned/used; Mac Plus, Mac IIx, Mac 7200/90, Starmax 4160, and my > Athlon based PC. > My first was an SC/MP board, then an 8080 wirewrap thing then a Sinclair MK14, which is the first one I still own, followed by an early TRS-80 mod 1, which I still have. (Then XT clone, AT, 386, 486, Pentia, Mac SE, Mac 630, and oddments like Oric, Spectrums, ZX81, Einstein...most of which are still around... ) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Wed Jan 30 02:29:54 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 29 Jan 2002 21:00:28 GMT." Message-ID: <200201300829.IAA14593@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said: > > First computer : Science of Cambridge MK14. Still have it, although the > 7805 shorted many years ago and killed the SC/MP (and maybe the monitor > PROMs -- but I have a listing of those in the manual so I could reburn > them). One day I'll get round to fixing it. > Nice to see someone else with one of these...I connected mine up the other day to make sure it still worked, and was playing "Duck Shoot"... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From foxvideo at wincom.net Wed Jan 30 15:00:57 2002 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: spam/avoidance of In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020130155742.00b16d28@mail.wincom.net> At 09:21 AM 30/01/2002 +0000, you wrote: >You don't need to be a subscriber to post a message to classiccmp. I >think 3 spams in one month is enough evidence that perhaps we need to >finally do away with this convenient anachronism. It's unfortunate but I >think it's in the best interest of our beloved mailing list. > > > (Yes, I got a copy of this spam too) > >Of course, as did everyone else who is currently subscribed :) > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * The only problem might be that it would make it more difficult for new collectors to subscribe to the list. Regards Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jan 30 15:06:51 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) In-Reply-To: <20020130182811.68977.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > A/UX runs on SE/30s? So sayeth the A/UX FAQ, and a perusal of the old UseNet archives (May Google be blessed 10,000 times) seems to support the notion. But.... See my post about it later. Doc From pcw at mesanet.com Wed Jan 30 15:12:41 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: Free "classic" junk in SF bay area Message-ID: 1 Shugart SA801 8" floppy drive 1 IBM 5151 AT computer 10 Reels 9 track tape - used... 1 VOXPC ISA voice synth Free for pickup in SF bay area... Peter Wallace From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Jan 30 14:56:37 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: HP 9000 800/G40 battery?/cable Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1A1A3839@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Brown [mailto:bbrown@harper.cc.il.us] > The batteries are supposed to keep ram intact for a SHORT duration > power failure...20 seconds might be longer than they would > last..especaially since > they are probably 10 year old batteries. > It's definetly NOT a full ups system. Ok, when I turn the system on afterwards, all lights -- including the battery charging light -- flash. I've assumed that this is just a test. In that case, shouldn't the batteries need recharged, and the battery light stay on for a while after this? It does not. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 30 14:19:28 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > I've got a Contura Aero myself, tho slightly upgraded since it was bought > > from Compaq. Mine currently has 20MB of ram and 4GB of hard drive. It > > originally came with 4MB of ram and 80MB of hard drive. You would not > > believe the pain and suffering that was involved in getting a non-dos os > > installed on the thing. > > Yes, I would. I've installed NetBSD on an IBM PS/1. I believe I have one of these systems out in storage, but it is lacking a hard drive. The one I have has (I think) 3 cables that connect the display to the computer. I guess I should find it and see exactly what it is. -Toth From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 30 08:27:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: FA: George A. Philbrick tube type Op-Amp Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020130092700.007d1b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> 1965 vintage tube type Op-Amp for "analog computors" See From ceby2 at csc.com Wed Jan 30 15:29:04 2002 From: ceby2 at csc.com (ceby2@csc.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) Message-ID: I've got a few mini-Linux machines. The smallest is an NEC Versa UltraLite, with the runner up being IBM P70. Which reminds me -- anyone have a parts machine. Mine's missing the critical left shift key. Detracts from the joy of Vi on an amber screen. :^>~ -- Colin Eby Senior Consultant CSC Consulting On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > I've got a Contura Aero myself, tho slightly upgraded since it was bought > from Compaq. Mine currently has 20MB of ram and 4GB of hard drive. It > originally came with 4MB of ram and 80MB of hard drive. You would not > believe the pain and suffering that was involved in getting a non-dos os > installed on the thing. Yes, I would. I've installed NetBSD on an IBM PS/1. Peace... Sridhar > If someone has a Contura Aero 4/33C or parts for the Contura Aero line > they want to get rid of sometime, send me an email. I've always wanted to > add a 4/33C to my collection of unusual systems. > > -Toth > > From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Jan 30 15:40:15 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > A/UX runs on SE/30s? > > So sayeth the A/UX FAQ, and a perusal of the old UseNet archives (May > Google be blessed 10,000 times) seems to support the notion. > > But.... See my post about it later. And should A/UX be too difficult to find, there's always NetBSD/mac68k. -brian. From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 30 15:29:38 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: Free "classic" junk in SF bay area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > 1 Shugart SA801 8" floppy drive > 1 IBM 5151 AT computer > 10 Reels 9 track tape - used... > 1 VOXPC ISA voice synth > > Free for pickup in SF bay area... ...and the vultures begin to circle :) -Toth From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jan 30 15:46:29 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: Free "classic" junk in SF bay area References: Message-ID: <3C5869B5.A6B869C8@jetnet.ab.ca> Tothwolf wrote: > > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > > 1 Shugart SA801 8" floppy drive > > 1 IBM 5151 AT computer > > 10 Reels 9 track tape - used... > > 1 VOXPC ISA voice synth > > > > Free for pickup in SF bay area... > > ...and the vultures begin to circle :) I can't see how This is not E-Bay. Hopefully this will go to a good home, not on some shelf for resale. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 30 15:33:08 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: HP 9000 800/G40 battery?/cable In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1A1A3839@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > Ok, when I turn the system on afterwards, all lights -- including the > battery charging light -- flash. I've assumed that this is just a > test. In that case, shouldn't the batteries need recharged, and the > battery light stay on for a while after this? It does not. What's the age of this machine? Most rechargeable battery technologies are only good for 5-10 years, and after that they start to leak and damage surrounding metals. If this system uses NiCads or Sealed Lead Acid batteries, they should be replaced right away. If it uses Cyclon Sealed Lead Acid batteries, those are usually good for about 15 years, but after about 10, they really should be replaced anyway. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 30 16:18:56 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 ceby2@csc.com wrote: > I've got a few mini-Linux machines. The smallest is an NEC Versa > UltraLite, with the runner up being IBM P70. Which reminds me -- > anyone have a parts machine. Mine's missing the critical left shift > key. Detracts from the joy of Vi on an amber screen. :^>~ I just checked my box of misc keycaps, and no left shift key, sorry. Are they the same as the ones on standard PS/2 keyboards? If so, I'll pull one off a junked keyboard next time I come across one. -Toth From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Jan 30 16:36:14 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: spam/avoidance of In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020130155742.00b16d28@mail.wincom.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020130155742.00b16d28@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <20020130223614.GA13566@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Speaking of SPAM, this may be a little off-topic, but it does peratain to computer collecting and restoration, in that e-mail is somewhat necessary for such activities. Have many others found that their ISPs are blocking entire domains and that legitimate e-mail is refused (bounced) with a "go away" error message? I'm all for limiting SPAM, but the blocking out of entire domains of legitimate ISPs is as bad as the SPAM; it's equivalent to the telephone company blocking out incoming calls from entire area codes, or regions, because of telemarketers and seems to defeat the purpose of e-mail, or the post-office banning the delivery of mail from entire zip-codes or regions. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From wpointon at earthlink.net Tue Jan 29 21:10:45 2002 From: wpointon at earthlink.net (bill pointon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: 10-pin RS/6000 serial cables available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: yep -- i just pulled it out of my to do pile and checked and it does have a standard 25 pin serial port -- thanks for the tip -- i sometimes jump on getting things that may turn up as rare later just incase i might need them --and sometimes before checking -- someone else who needs it is welcome to it -- thanks -- billp On Tuesday, January 29, 2002, at 07:25 , r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, bill pointon wrote: > >> i too would like one for a 41t i have -- billp > > If I had to guess, wouldn't a 41t have a more standard d-sub style > serial > connector? > > The non--mini-DIN end of this cable has 10 pins on .100" centers (what > I've heard termed a 'BERG header') wrapped in a silly, rectangular, > plastic shroud. > > Let me know if you still think that's what you want. > > ok > r. > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 30 16:28:27 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help In-Reply-To: <3C57D2FC.E1A5D17C@Vishay.com> from "Andreas Freiherr" at Jan 30, 2 12:03:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3952 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020130/9d2e57ef/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 30 14:39:33 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Jan 29, 2 08:12:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 741 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020130/d343aac3/attachment.ksh From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 30 18:10:34 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > I can vouch for that. My VT340's flyback let out its magic smoke about 6-8 > > months ago. Does anyone happen to have the service manual and or a > > replacement flyback for this thing? I'd like to repair it in the near > > future. What most often causes the flyback to go out? It worked fine one > > day, the next it let out a cloud of smoke. > > My experience with the VT330 and VT340 suggests that there's no other > component that fails to kill the flyback. It's just that the HV > winding in the flyback breaks down. The flyback case cracks, lots of > smoke comes out... This seems to match up with the behavior the terminal exhibited. I heard a few 'plink' type sounds a few times, accompanied by 1/2 sec or shorter HV drops. I'm guessing the flyback was starting to arc internally? This terminal had done this off and on for a considerable amount of time...at least a year. The flyback's case didn't crack on this one (that I noticed anyway). I pulled it out of service the second it quit working, so that could have something to do with it. I opened it up, and found a considerable amount of smoke had escaped from underneath the flyback, which would have explained the cloud and smell that prompted me to yank the cord from the wall. > You should check the horizontal output transistor (on a heatsink near > the flyback) and all the diodes and capacitors round the flyback. But > most likely they're fine. Will do. Do you have any suggestions on a replacement flyback here in the US? I'd also like to find a service manual for this terminal, so that I can go through the basic checks and alignment procedures once I find a replacement. -Toth From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Jan 30 13:05:49 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) In-Reply-To: <20020130062017.81711.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <20020131000508.JACY19101.tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 22:20:17 -0800 (PST) > From: Ethan Dicks > Subject: Re: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > 2) Use tranditional gear cutting techniques (dividing head and involute > > cutter) to make a replacvement from scratch. > > I would try that if I had access to the equipment That's fine and tedious job but you do get results. In old days nearly 120 years ago was done by hand for nearly 500 years on everything before mass production was developed. Tools were hand-made too! With good co-od hand, can make nearly anything. That's how I made few small parts by hand machining, cordless drill, few jeweller's files, small bent-nose pliers. I keep fitting the part in progress to the machine till completed. On wear surfaces, I buff smooth with brass wirebrush on dremel. But if you can find right size and right # of teeth pinion rod, buy it and slice a section and drill hole to size. Oh yeah, can make odd sized drill bits out of right size dia rods even my old jeweller's screwdrivers. > > 3) Make a lantern pinion of the appropriate size. This actually looks > > very possible. The meshing gear's teeth won't be the right shape for the > > trundles of a lantern pinion, but that may not matter. > > I don't recognize the term "lantern pinion" - is there an American > term for that? Not of what I know of but this term applies, think of squirrel cage made of two discs w/ 7 holes, one for center, six for pins as "teeth". Was popular in clocks including cockoo clocks, classic wind up bed alarm clocks, and old timex bed clocks, late timex ones used junky pot die-cast metal to bind all the pins, axle and gear wheel together - cheap, cheap, cheesy cheap but effective. They hardly wear because the pins are usually loose and allowed to roll when gearing. > > > 4) Kludge it. One suggestion is to make a groove in the teeth away from > > the meshing part and to bind it with fine wire. I've heard this can work, > > > but I've not tried it. Make a impression in hard clay and pour 24 hour epoxy or potting plastic in it. Drill CAREFULLY on the exact center when hardened. Regular epoxies doesn't bond to plastic at all that small, about good epoxy's job is with wood. They pop off on plastic and metal. You have to use commerical type epoxies made for chip-making types. That what they does work. > -ethan Cheers, Wizard From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 30 14:41:27 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) In-Reply-To: <3C576112.40E5F98F@verizon.net> from "Ian Koller" at Jan 29, 2 09:57:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 286 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020130/10c9d0a9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 30 16:07:08 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) In-Reply-To: <20020130062017.81711.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jan 29, 2 10:20:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3005 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020130/48274e3c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 30 14:32:04 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Jan 29, 2 07:55:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1109 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020130/a3c747f2/attachment.ksh From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 30 18:17:52 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > For that reason, never throw out an old HP battery pack (even though HP > > > never considered them to be repairable). It's _always_ possible to > > > rebuild them. and you need some parts from the old pack > > > > It's getting that way with old laptops and portable computers these days > > too. Replacement "packs" are either not available or are way to expensive. > > More often than not, the batteries inside those things are standard > > (usually still have to be ordered) NiCad or Nimh type cells. > > Speaking as somebody who's rewond DECwriter motors, rebuilt HP battery > packs, swapped surface mount chips on HP flexible PCBs, rewound > horizontal driver transformers in MDA monitors, replaced 3.5" floppy > drive heads, and generally repaired stuff to a much lower level than > the manufacturers intend, I guess what it comes down to is : > > Never throw away a subassembly. If it looks like it was made from > separate parts, then it probably was, and it can be taken apart again > and individual parts replaced. Even if you can't get the parts, you > might be able to make one good unit from 2 dead ones. I've done a considerable amount of this myself, and have some very "unusual" stuff in my junkboxes. (If I can ever find them again.) Lots of folks think I waste my time on stuff, but repair is often the only option when it's a one of a kind part, or would cost way too much for a replacement. And as a last resort, if I can't repair something with my current tools and skills, it goes into a box for later repair by myself or someone else. One good example of this kind of item is the floppy drive used in PS/2 systems. I found just recently that they commonly often fail due to bad surface mount electrolytic capacitors. Once I have a hot-air soldering station, I have at least 5-7 of these drives that will be repaired. -Toth From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 30 14:37:50 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: Searching for old DEC 12V frontpanel bulbs In-Reply-To: <10201300210.ZM20576@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jan 30, 2 02:10:54 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1155 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020130/45a1dbd0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 30 14:43:11 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W! In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Jan 29, 2 09:03:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 721 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020130/77c93c58/attachment.ksh From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 30 16:21:23 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: Free "classic" junk in SF bay area In-Reply-To: <3C5869B5.A6B869C8@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > Tothwolf wrote: > > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > > > > 1 Shugart SA801 8" floppy drive > > > 1 IBM 5151 AT computer > > > 10 Reels 9 track tape - used... > > > 1 VOXPC ISA voice synth > > > > > > Free for pickup in SF bay area... > > > > ...and the vultures begin to circle :) > > I can't see how This is not E-Bay. Hopefully this > will go to a good home, not on some shelf for resale. I certainly hope so too. I'm sure some collector here will jump at the chance for some of that stuff. -Toth From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Jan 30 16:30:24 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:24 2005 Subject: PKZIP problem In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020130104720.007d6ae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020130162729.03b3f8b8@pc> At 10:47 AM 1/30/2002 -0500, Joe wrote: > OR it says that you can use >-&s[drive] to copy an entire drive. Depending on which DOS-like shell you're using, the ampersand may be eaten by the shell. For example, with WinNT's command shell, there's a workaround that I don't recall at the moment. > I've tried this >with MS DOS PKZIP verion 2.04g and with Winzip but I got the same results >with both. You might try http://www.info-zip.org/ for a command line Zip. - John From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 30 16:32:02 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: Recent finds at the surplus shop In-Reply-To: <20020130010359.D22989-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at Jan 30, 2 01:23:53 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1150 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020130/4dfc7c55/attachment.ksh From abuse at roving.com Wed Jan 30 16:40:32 2002 From: abuse at roving.com (abuse@roving.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: FW: [ABUSE] [SpamCop (http://www.constantcontact.com/index.jsp?cc=tsanp) id:56920961] New Microscope Eyepiece Video Camera [roving] [#19815] Message-ID: Thank you for contacting the Roving Software Abuse group. All complaints that we receive are reviewed and we will take appropriate action against the user who sent this email. Depending on the results of our investigation, the user's account may be terminated immediately. Regardless, we have removed your name from the list in question. 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Please follow links for details. http://spamcop.net/w3m?i=z56920961z0a1f1d7543ac09fce7700fef7b584caez Spamvertised website: http://www.constantcontact.com/index.jsp?cc=tsanp > http://www.constantcontact.com/index.jsp?cc=tsanp is 63.251.135.71; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 17:54:59 GMT Offending message: Microsoft Mail Internet Headers Version 2.0 Received: from kc-msxalone.kc.umkc.edu ([134.193.143.157]) by KC-MAIL2.kc.umkc.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3779); Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:36:08 -0600 Received: from ns2.ezwind.net ([209.145.140.11]) by kc-msxalone.kc.umkc.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3779); Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:36:08 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by ns2.ezwind.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g0NGxxB98461 for classiccmp-classiccmp-org-outgoing; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:59:59 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from owner-x) X-Authentication-Warning: ns2.ezwind.net: majordom set sender to owner-x using -f Received: from mailface.roving.com (mailface.roving.com [63.251.135.75]) by ns2.ezwind.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g0NGxwm98456 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:59:58 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ESC1010944242767_1000879232570@in.roving.com) Received: from lp1 (lp1.roving.com [10.20.40.148]) by mailface.roving.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 609271BEAA for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:33:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <-303871085.1011805192585.JavaMail.administrator@lp1> From: "Michael Passer" To: x Subject: New Microscope Eyepiece Video Camera Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Roving-Queued: 20020123 11:59.52554 X-Mailer: Roving Constant Contact 4.1.Patch75.Patch_75_Delights_01_11_02 (http://www.constantcontact.com) X-Roving-ID: 1010944242767 X-Return-Path-Hint: ESC1010944242767_1000879232570@in.roving.com Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:33:55 -0500 (EST) Sender: owner-x Precedence: bulk Reply-To: x Return-Path: owner-x X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jan 2002 17:36:08.0602 (UTC) FILETIME=[711C4FA0:01C1A434] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HYPERLINK "http://ccprod.roving.com/roving/sa/o.jsp?id=tnjhjce6.ntmspqn6&o=http:// ccprod.roving.com/roving/images/p1x1.gif" HYPERLINK "http://ccprod.roving.com/roving/images/letters/spacer.gif". 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Please take a few moments to visit our site for more information and to register for our Free Microscope Drawing (no purchase required) and to receive information on our latest and greatest products like name brand 'used microscopes'. We are committed to providing you the latest products available for online purchase, and as always, outstanding personal service. If you have any questions about our new product offering, please do not hesitate to contact us. Sincerely, Tom Tottleben Tottleben Scientific Company, Inc. _____ email: HYPERLINK "mailto:tomtot@charter.net"tomtot@charter.net voice: 618 656 9008/fax 618 656 9599 web: HYPERLINK "http://ccprod.roving.com/roving/sa/t.jsp?id=tnjhjce6.ntmspqn6&p=http%3A %2F%2Fwww.tscmicroscopes.com"http://www.tscmicroscopes.com HYPERLINK "http://ccprod.roving.com/roving/images/letters/spacer.gif". This email was sent to x, at your request, by HYPERLINK "http://ccprod.roving.com/roving/sa/s.jsp?id=tnjhjce6.ntmspqn6"Tottleben Scientific Company. Visit our Subscription Center to HYPERLINK "http://ccprod.roving.com/roving/d.jsp?p=oo&m=tnjhjce6&ea=classiccmp@cla ssiccmp.org&id=tnjhjce6.ntmspqn6"edit your interests or HYPERLINK "http://ccprod.roving.com/roving/d.jsp?p=oo&m=tnjhjce6&ea=classiccmp@cla ssiccmp.org&id=tnjhjce6.ntmspqn6"unsubscribe. View our HYPERLINK "http://ccprod.roving.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp"privacy policy. Powered by HYPERLINK "http://www.constantcontact.com/index.jsp?cc=tsanp" \nConstant Contact From curt at atari-history.com Wed Jan 30 16:40:55 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: spam/avoidance of References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020130155742.00b16d28@mail.wincom.net> <20020130223614.GA13566@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <007c01c1a9df$2fd9ab40$0a00a8c0@cvendel> The biggest problem now what spammers are that they are using legitimate domains and spoofing real email address' to get their spam out to victims. Yahoo.com is most likely going to end up on the Remote Blackhole List if they continue to be hijacked by spammers, its becoming worse and worse as time goes by. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 5:36 PM Subject: Re: spam/avoidance of > Speaking of SPAM, this may be a little off-topic, but it does peratain > to computer collecting and restoration, in that e-mail is somewhat > necessary for such activities. Have many others found that their ISPs > are blocking entire domains and that legitimate e-mail is refused > (bounced) with a "go away" error message? I'm all for limiting SPAM, > but the blocking out of entire domains of legitimate ISPs is as bad as > the SPAM; it's equivalent to the telephone company blocking out > incoming calls from entire area codes, or regions, because of > telemarketers and seems to defeat the purpose of e-mail, or the > post-office banning the delivery of mail from entire zip-codes or > regions. > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jan 30 16:17:50 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: spam/avoidance of References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020130155742.00b16d28@mail.wincom.net> <20020130223614.GA13566@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <007c01c1a9df$2fd9ab40$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <3C58710E.DFDDBEC6@jetnet.ab.ca> Curt Vendel wrote: > > The biggest problem now what spammers are that they are using legitimate > domains and spoofing real email address' to get their spam out to victims. > Yahoo.com is most likely going to end up on the Remote Blackhole List if > they continue to be hijacked by spammers, its becoming worse and worse as > time goes by. I think allot of the spam is Yahoo generated. I rarely view a geocities page because all the stupid popups. No I don't want a CAM for my PC... -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 30 16:42:46 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: spam/avoidance of In-Reply-To: <20020130223614.GA13566@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On 30 Jan 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > Speaking of SPAM, this may be a little off-topic, but it does peratain > to computer collecting and restoration, in that e-mail is somewhat > necessary for such activities. Have many others found that their ISPs > are blocking entire domains and that legitimate e-mail is refused > (bounced) with a "go away" error message? I'm all for limiting SPAM, > but the blocking out of entire domains of legitimate ISPs is as bad as > the SPAM; it's equivalent to the telephone company blocking out > incoming calls from entire area codes, or regions, because of > telemarketers and seems to defeat the purpose of e-mail, or the > post-office banning the delivery of mail from entire zip-codes or > regions. Well, my ISP's mailservers seem to end up on ORBZ' blacklist every 6-8 months. This can make talking to other folks via email very difficult. Is this the kind of thing you are talking about? -Toth From west at tseinc.com Wed Jan 30 17:02:35 2002 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: spam/avoidance of References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020130155742.00b16d28@mail.wincom.net> <20020130223614.GA13566@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <004501c1a9e2$378d6180$0101a8c0@jay> Depends on how they are doing it, and why IMHO. We will block reception or transmittal of any mail that originates or is destined to a mail server (MX record for the domain) that is known to be an open relay. We consider an open relay to be a misconfigured (and likely compromised) system. It is our right to not allow our server to come in contact with such systems, as any contact with them is almost certainly going to transit spam. Bear in mind that it only blocks mail traveling through OUR server. Don't try and say there are valid reasons for making a mail server an open relay, there aren't. Period. No valid reason, ever. Our method of determining an open relay is the ordb database, as well as mail-abuse via a "DNS" lookup to their databases. It is completely voluntary, and only affects what systems MY mail servers talk to. Both organizations have proven to be pretty reliable in checking before putting a server in their database, and getting it out quickly once the server admin decides to become just a tiny bit responsible. If you are talking about other things than open relay checking, I'd like to know the specifics....remember, if the ISP is a responsible, reasoned admin, he has every right to block traffic through his servers in the interest of protecting his network - that's their sworn duty after all. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 4:36 PM Subject: Re: spam/avoidance of > Speaking of SPAM, this may be a little off-topic, but it does peratain > to computer collecting and restoration, in that e-mail is somewhat > necessary for such activities. Have many others found that their ISPs > are blocking entire domains and that legitimate e-mail is refused > (bounced) with a "go away" error message? I'm all for limiting SPAM, > but the blocking out of entire domains of legitimate ISPs is as bad as > the SPAM; it's equivalent to the telephone company blocking out > incoming calls from entire area codes, or regions, because of > telemarketers and seems to defeat the purpose of e-mail, or the > post-office banning the delivery of mail from entire zip-codes or > regions. > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed Jan 30 17:05:41 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: spam/avoidance of In-Reply-To: References: <20020130223614.GA13566@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020130150425.02841080@mail.zipcon.net> At 03:59 PM 1/30/02 -0800, you wrote: >Easy fix. Use hotmail to tell your friends to use ISPs that aren't so >spammer friendly that they get blacklisted. > >g. not so easy fix, your ISP can get on a blacklist from spoofed headers, there are a handful of the blacklists out there that just add you, without verifying that the spam did , in fact originate at your domain :( From west at tseinc.com Wed Jan 30 17:11:58 2002 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: spam/avoidance of References: <20020130223614.GA13566@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <5.1.0.14.2.20020130150425.02841080@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <007d01c1a9e3$86fd44a0$0101a8c0@jay> That is just simply not true. While there may be a few tiny blacklist setups that put a domain on the list without checking it out directly themselves, NO blacklist organization of any size, or one that is even on the radar screen, does this. All of the ones that are even barely commonly known, only put a system on the blacklist after THEY have tested it themselves. Anyone can submit a domain, but it will be tested by them for an actual open relay before they put it on the list. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Reed" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 5:05 PM Subject: Re: spam/avoidance of > At 03:59 PM 1/30/02 -0800, you wrote: > >Easy fix. Use hotmail to tell your friends to use ISPs that aren't so > >spammer friendly that they get blacklisted. > > > >g. > > not so easy fix, your ISP can get on a blacklist from spoofed headers, > there are a handful of the blacklists out there that just add you, without > verifying that the spam did , in fact originate at your domain :( > > From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Jan 30 18:27:55 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: spam/avoidance of In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020130150425.02841080@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: > At 03:59 PM 1/30/02 -0800, you wrote: > >Easy fix. Use hotmail to tell your friends to use ISPs that aren't so > >spammer friendly that they get blacklisted. > > > >g. > > not so easy fix, your ISP can get on a blacklist from spoofed headers, > there are a handful of the blacklists out there that just add you, without > verifying that the spam did , in fact originate at your domain :( > I've never even heard of such a thing. The only blacklist I pay any attention to (Vixie's) act responsibly about such things. g. From passerm at umkc.edu Wed Jan 30 17:15:41 2002 From: passerm at umkc.edu (Michael Passer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: (OT): Re: spam/avoidance of References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020130155742.00b16d28@mail.wincom.net> <20020130223614.GA13566@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <001001c1a9e4$096a8ce0$0800a8c0@zeus> Seems to me that blocking an entire area code or zip code, while extreme, would be an incentive to those in charge of the area or zip code to get their house in order. In this case, it means that they need to police those they're selling services to, and to quit looking the other way at downstreams that spam or offer spam support services (e.g. "remove" services, hosted advertising, email) rather than chase the easy money associated with pink business. It's probably the only thing keep even more providers from selling out entirely to spammers, IMO. > but the blocking out of entire domains of legitimate ISPs is as bad as > the SPAM; it's equivalent to the telephone company blocking out > incoming calls from entire area codes, or regions, because of > telemarketers and seems to defeat the purpose of e-mail, or the > post-office banning the delivery of mail from entire zip-codes or > regions. From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Jan 30 17:59:23 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: spam/avoidance of In-Reply-To: <20020130223614.GA13566@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: Easy fix. Use hotmail to tell your friends to use ISPs that aren't so spammer friendly that they get blacklisted. g. On 30 Jan 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > Speaking of SPAM, this may be a little off-topic, but it does peratain > to computer collecting and restoration, in that e-mail is somewhat > necessary for such activities. Have many others found that their ISPs > are blocking entire domains and that legitimate e-mail is refused > (bounced) with a "go away" error message? I'm all for limiting SPAM, > but the blocking out of entire domains of legitimate ISPs is as bad as > the SPAM; it's equivalent to the telephone company blocking out > incoming calls from entire area codes, or regions, because of > telemarketers and seems to defeat the purpose of e-mail, or the > post-office banning the delivery of mail from entire zip-codes or > regions. > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > > From west at tseinc.com Wed Jan 30 17:09:53 2002 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: spam/avoidance of References: Message-ID: <007901c1a9e3$3d6cdee0$0101a8c0@jay> While sometimes the ISP's are in fact spammer friendly, most of the time it's incompetent admins who leave an open relay condition in place through neglect or ignorance. And even then, most of the time it is the system admin of an end user of the ISP, not the ISP itself. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Buckle" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 5:59 PM Subject: Re: spam/avoidance of > Easy fix. Use hotmail to tell your friends to use ISPs that aren't so > spammer friendly that they get blacklisted. > > g. > > > On 30 Jan 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > > > Speaking of SPAM, this may be a little off-topic, but it does peratain > > to computer collecting and restoration, in that e-mail is somewhat > > necessary for such activities. Have many others found that their ISPs > > are blocking entire domains and that legitimate e-mail is refused > > (bounced) with a "go away" error message? I'm all for limiting SPAM, > > but the blocking out of entire domains of legitimate ISPs is as bad as > > the SPAM; it's equivalent to the telephone company blocking out > > incoming calls from entire area codes, or regions, because of > > telemarketers and seems to defeat the purpose of e-mail, or the > > post-office banning the delivery of mail from entire zip-codes or > > regions. > > > > -- > > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > > > > > > From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Jan 30 16:41:00 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: Docs for QBus cards wanted In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020129225009.025d6e10@209.185.79.193>; from cmcmanis@mcmanis.com on Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 07:51:01 CET References: <20020130002335.C80544@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <3C5778A0.2030804@aurora.regenstrief.org> <5.1.0.14.2.20020129225009.025d6e10@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <20020130234100.C83881@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.01.30 07:51 Chuck McManis wrote: > I thought I had put it up already. You can find it at: > Ahhh. Seams that the CXA16 is already supported by NetBSD, as it emulates a DHU11 or DHV11. (Jumper selectable.) So no need for kernel hacking here. The same for the CXY08. But I still need the connector pinout for the Emulex QS09. This emulates two CXY08 and has four 36 pin DB-HD connectors. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Jan 30 16:44:23 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: Docs for QBus cards wanted In-Reply-To: <15447.12311.423984.652325@phaduka.neurotica.com>; from mcguire@neurotica.com on Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 00:28:23 CET References: <20020130002335.C80544@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <15447.12311.423984.652325@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20020130234423.E83881@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.01.30 00:28 Dave McGuire wrote: > > M7616 KXJ11-CA J11 CPU, 512-Kbyte RAM, 64-Kbyte PROM > > This is a PDP 11 on a QBus slave card, used as universal intelligent > > peripheral controller. (Wouldn't it be nice to have a PDP 11 > > co-processor runing some 2.xBSD in a VAX? ;-) ) > Oh I would seriously *dig* this. :-) It would be great to be able > to squirt arbitrary code into that card from a userland process. 8-) My thaught, my thaught. But as I have no clue how this card can be interfaced, I can't say that this will be possible. Doc for this beast seams to be really hard to get. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jan 30 16:54:20 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: Docs for QBus cards wanted In-Reply-To: Re: Docs for QBus cards wanted (Jochen Kunz) References: <20020130002335.C80544@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <15447.12311.423984.652325@phaduka.neurotica.com> <20020130234423.E83881@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <15448.31132.624166.268284@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 30, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > > M7616 KXJ11-CA J11 CPU, 512-Kbyte RAM, > 64-Kbyte PROM > > > This is a PDP 11 on a QBus slave card, used as universal intelligent > > > peripheral controller. (Wouldn't it be nice to have a PDP 11 > > > co-processor runing some 2.xBSD in a VAX? ;-) ) > > Oh I would seriously *dig* this. :-) It would be great to be able > > to squirt arbitrary code into that card from a userland process. 8-) > My thaught, my thaught. But as I have no clue how this card can be > interfaced, I can't say that this will be possible. Doc for this beast > seams to be really hard to get. That sucks. It would be a really cool thing to be able to do. Maybe someone within DEC can anonymously slide some info your way. Hey, I can hope. :-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 30 16:49:47 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020130224947.28961.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- Julius Sridhar wrote: > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > The PS/2-E does *not* have the LCD monitor that came with it > > originally... > > Those monitors are getting kinda hard to find. They always _were_ hard to find... unless you wanted to pay several times the cost of the computer for them. Tiny passive-scan LCDs as I recall... The idea was sound - an ultra-low-power desktop... too bad it's a 386SX-16 w/8Mb of RAM max. :-P I have mine running RedHat, but it takes an eternity to boot up. As proof of the value of classic machines, it saw hundreds of hours of use in 2000 as a faux-router/firewall (with 4 3C589 cards in it). We used it on our development LAN to similate Cisco hardware (to a near enough approximation from the application's standpoint - all it had to do was simulate a secure LAN with several DMZs - no actual security was required for the proof-of-concept, just reasonable IP addresses). We _didn't_ go out and buy a duplicate set of hardware for our play-LAN and saved about $20K. I still got laid-off, though; so I took my toys and went home! -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jan 30 16:50:23 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > Yes, I would. I've installed NetBSD on an IBM PS/1. > > I believe I have one of these systems out in storage, but it is lacking a > hard drive. The one I have has (I think) 3 cables that connect the display > to the computer. I guess I should find it and see exactly what it is. It isn't worth it. They are slow, useless PC's that have parts of DOS burned into ROM. Peace... Sridhar From ceby2 at csc.com Wed Jan 30 17:29:22 2002 From: ceby2 at csc.com (ceby2@csc.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) Message-ID: Toth -- I'm afraid the P70 keys are different. They apparently built a special keyboard just for this class of machine. I have a couple experiments in mind as far as my own junk keyboards are concerned, but I haven't had a chance to diagram out the mechanism so I can cross-breed something. The ideal situation is a key from a dead P70. But I'd just be happy not to keep slapping my finger into the empty socket everytime a rewrite a host file or something. Sighhhh. Thanks for thinking of me though. Colin Eby Senior Consultant CSC Consulting From marvin at rain.org Wed Jan 30 16:53:43 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: Eyepiece Video Camera Spam Message-ID: <3C587977.F52E04DE@rain.org> I just received the following regarding the spam sent to the listserver: Thank you for contacting the Roving Software Abuse group. All complaints that we receive are reviewed and we will take appropriate action against the user who sent this email. Depending on the results of our investigation, the user's account may be terminated immediately. Regardless, we have removed your name from the list in question. If you ever receive unwanted email from this source again please contact us immediately. From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Jan 30 17:10:07 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: HP 9000 800/G40 battery?/cable Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1A1A383D@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] > What's the age of this machine? Most rechargeable battery > technologies are > only good for 5-10 years, and after that they start to leak and damage > surrounding metals. If this system uses NiCads or Sealed Lead Acid > batteries, they should be replaced right away. If it uses > Cyclon Sealed > Lead Acid batteries, those are usually good for about 15 > years, but after > about 10, they really should be replaced anyway. Not sure, but I'll check them. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From celigne at tinyworld.co.uk Wed Jan 30 18:20:40 2002 From: celigne at tinyworld.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E1DD@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <3C588DD8.44124024@tinyworld.co.uk> Christopher Smith wrote: > > This is actually the only one I've ever met. I have seen pictures > and layout diagrams, though, and it _looks_ (IE the keys are the > same) like a VT100 keyboard. On the other hand, that other > terminal _looked_ (The case, etc, was nearly identical) like a > VT100... This won't help you get to the bottom of the mystery, but the TeleVideo 950 looks a bit like a VT100. It has the same "big round wedge" kind of keyboard. I've never seen a keyboard diagram though, so I couldn't claim the layout is the same. - Paul From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Jan 30 15:36:41 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: A Special Announcement From Dish Network ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Brian Knittel wrote: > > > The way to deal with idiots like this is to call his boss and > > complain. I just did. Good use of 15 cents. > > So does that mean I don't have to call and fax now? :) Memories are resurfacing from the Cantor & Seigel greencard lottery Usenet fiasco of the early 1990s. It's a shame that the internet community of today is too fragmented to mount a focused retaliation like it did with Cantor & Seigel. One thing in particular that remember reading about was how someone took a few sheets of black construction paper, and then ran them in a taped together loop through their fax machine to the fax number of Cantor & Seigel's office. He did this after normal business hours. That way the attorneys would find a huge pile of all black faxes when they arrived to work the following morning. Apart from tying up the fax line, it also wasted their paper and a lot of toner. -brian. From classiccmp at knm.yi.org Wed Jan 30 17:12:26 2002 From: classiccmp at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: 9 track tapes Message-ID: Hey ho people :&) Quick question, I've got a Cipher F880 here (no tapes yet - anyone in the UK wanna help out? :&) and someone just asked me what the maximum capacity of the drive is.... Anyone care to enlighten me? -- Matt --- Web Page: http://knm.org.uk/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jan 30 17:19:07 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: 9 track tapes In-Reply-To: 9 track tapes (Matt London) References: Message-ID: <15448.32619.634017.536066@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 30, Matt London wrote: > Quick question, I've got a Cipher F880 here (no tapes yet - anyone in > the UK wanna help out? :&) and someone just asked me what the maximum > capacity of the drive is.... The Cipher F880 is a 1600bpi drive, if memory serves. It might also do 800bpi. Capacity depends on the block size...but on average, at 1600bpi on a 2400' reel, you'll get about 40MB or so. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From west at tseinc.com Wed Jan 30 17:26:33 2002 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: 9 track tapes References: <15448.32619.634017.536066@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <00c701c1a9e5$8f4bd0c0$0101a8c0@jay> I used to have several cipher F880's. I'm 99% sure the ones I had would do 1600 I know, 3200 also I think, and 800 with a NRZI option board I think. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave McGuire" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 5:19 PM Subject: Re: 9 track tapes > On January 30, Matt London wrote: > > Quick question, I've got a Cipher F880 here (no tapes yet - anyone in > > the UK wanna help out? :&) and someone just asked me what the maximum > > capacity of the drive is.... > > The Cipher F880 is a 1600bpi drive, if memory serves. It might also > do 800bpi. Capacity depends on the block size...but on average, at > 1600bpi on a 2400' reel, you'll get about 40MB or so. > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire > St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf > > From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jan 30 17:36:51 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: 9 track tapes In-Reply-To: Re: 9 track tapes (Jay West) References: <15448.32619.634017.536066@phaduka.neurotica.com> <00c701c1a9e5$8f4bd0c0$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <15448.33683.854267.704030@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 30, Jay West wrote: > I used to have several cipher F880's. I'm 99% sure the ones I had would do > 1600 I know, 3200 also I think, and 800 with a NRZI option board I think. Ahh yes, I seem to remember something about 3200bpi on the F880 now that you mention it. I think several vendors implemented that format but I don't think it was ever standardized...or at least, not as widely implemented as 800, 1600, and 6250bpi. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 30 17:20:51 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: AN/UYKs In-Reply-To: <8053C68F752FD511A76700C0A8349206161F@PLAYBOX> Message-ID: <20020130232051.66908.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Peter J. Gerry" wrote: > my friend steve might know about these - he collects them, are they > available ? thanks, pete Isn't that the DoD designation for a PDP-8? ... from the PDP-8 model FAQ... Subject: What is a PDP-8? Date of introduction: 1965 (Unveiled March 22, in New York). Date of withdrawal: 1968. Total production run: 1450. Also known as: Classic PDP-8 (to point out lack of a model suffix) Straight-8 (Again, points out the lack of a model suffix) PCP-88, an OEM label, used by Foxboro Corporation. AN/GYK-6, (Army-Navy Ground-based (Y)data-processing Komputer 6) Price: $18,000 ... guess not... So I went digging and found these links by asking Jeeves... http://www.crane.navy.mil/tecr/uyk20.html http://www.simulogics.com/company/company.htm http://sites.defenselink.mil/records/datapage950.html https://cosip.npt.nuwc.navy.mil/UYK-43/ I guess an AN/UYK-43 is a VMS-based 32-bit computer, the AN/UYK-20 has core memory, the AN/UYK-64 is somehow DG compatible. Not sure about any other models. Never seen an AN/UYK of any model up close. Sounds interesting. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 30 17:35:25 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: AN/UYKs In-Reply-To: from "Ethan Dicks" at Jan 30, 2002 03:20:51 PM Message-ID: <200201302335.g0UNZP004741@shell1.aracnet.com> > Isn't that the DoD designation for a PDP-8? We'll, I've seen Sperry-Rand, Harris, Unisys, and Honeywell systems with that designation. It all depends on the number after the AN/UYK- as to what it's the designation for. Zane From rickb at bensene.com Wed Jan 30 17:24:10 2002 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Small UNIX boxes In-Reply-To: <20020130182811.68977.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001101c1a9e5$38ed8660$0503eecd@bensene.com> Quite off-topic, but probably of interest -- For small Unix machines, how about the wristwatch that runs Linux and uses X11 for the display, developed at IBM? The original prototype used a small backlit LCD display, but the latest version uses an Organic LED (OLED) display that is absolutely stunning! The machine runs with an ARM 7 CPU (Cirrus Logic EP7211), 8 Megs of flash memory and 8 Megs of DRAM. The OLED display is 640x480. It has a built-in Bluetooth transceiver, Lithium Polymer rechargeable battery, a combination of touch screen and a jog dial for user interface, infra-red interface. The watch 'program' is 'xclock'! There's a great article (with lots of pix) about the development in the latest edition of IEEE's "Computer" journal (January 2002). Regards, Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Web Museum http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 30 17:26:23 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: Here I Am In-Reply-To: <005301c1a8f1$f6854b80$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <20020130232623.29318.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sipke de Wal wrote: > It's amazing how stable the win$ucks platform is given the principle > that it does not reclaim allocated memory back to the OS if it is > not absolutly certain it's safe! Ok, you're left with a memory leak > there, but you can always reboot the bastard every other day ;=) It's probably due to the DOSish origins of Windows. UNIX always required an MMU of some sort (Minix being the one exception I can think of off the top of my head). As a result, UNIX always cleaned up when a process ended. AmigaDOS, which requires no MMU, is terrible for slow memory leaks. There's lots of docs about how to detect leaks and how to estimate what you forgot to give up by comparing common system structure sizes to your leakages. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From marvin at rain.org Wed Jan 30 17:36:42 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: Dec PDP-8 Lamps Message-ID: <3C58838A.F367036D@rain.org> What is the voltage, current, and style of the lamps used on the PDP-8 series of computers? I recall seeing 14V, 28V lamps both mentioned, but no current ratings. In checking out Chicago Miniature (http://www.sli-lighting.com/cml/electronic/index.cfm), it looks like they have quite a few lamps that might fit the bill. http://www.sli-lighting.com/cml/databookpdf/2-47.pdf is the PDF file I was checking. From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 30 18:24:54 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > Anyway, mine has a built-in PSU. Just an IEC plug on the back ('kettle > > > plug') that, in my case, takes in 240V AC. I guess they were made with > > > different transformers for other voltages. > > > > It would appear that mine does as well. I never looked at it closely, > > since it looked like a brick or wall-wart was supposed to fit into the > > styrofoam packing. I guess nothing went there. > > Paper roll? > > IIRC. the paper roll does not fit inside the 1520, it hangs on the back > on a couple of silly brackets. Which were packed separately in the box. > Presumably the paper roll had to go somewhere. > > Or maybe a 'kettle lead'? I'd expect it to have come with one. Nope, there is a separate cut-out in the styrofoam where the cables were packed. The cutout I mentioned is about 3" in diameter, about 4" deep, and has a square bit of cardboard fitted into it. It looked about the right size for a wall-wart to fit into. Commodore's 1520 (mine at least) has an enclosed paper roll hanger on the back of the unit. It seemed to be attached from the factory. -Toth From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Wed Jan 30 17:44:47 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E05@BUSH02> Where 'locally' is either a misprint for 'luckily', or it's the name of a small hamlet in Wales, not marked on any map. That would be Llocaly, it's near Cwmfishin. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 30 19:00:10 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020131010010.33372.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > Not in mine... it's the farthest gear from the motor spindle that's > > broken - it's the gear on the shaft that runs the width of the printer > > mechanism, for one. Perhaps we have different broken gears in ours... > > Odd... In _all_ my plotters it's the motor gear that's failed. The final > gear is much larger IIRC. Doesn't it have an anti-backlash spring in it > as well? I don't think so... the gear in my hand is about 2mm long, slightly less in diameter, and fits on a 6cm long shaft that's less than 1mm in diameter. It resembled the gear that you frequently see on the motor shaft. I suppose I'll have to take some pictures the next time I'm at the farm. Perhaps I've got it turned round in my mind... I'm not looking at the plotter at the moment. > No, you get them 'locally'.... > > Where 'locally' is either a misprint for 'luckily', or it's the name of a > small hamlet in Wales, not marked on any map. I've had that problem with some bolts in automobiles (American and Japanese - the Germans are better at that sort of thing in my experience). > It's a clockmaking term for one of those pinions that looks like a small > cage found in old clocks. You know, 2 disks fitted to the arbor (shaft) > with holes in a circle near the edge. And pins (called 'trundles') > joining them. Now I can picture it. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 30 19:04:54 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) In-Reply-To: <20020131010010.33372.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jan 30, 2 05:00:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1723 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020131/8177f59c/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 30 19:08:08 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) In-Reply-To: <20020131010010.33372.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I don't think so... the gear in my hand is about 2mm long, slightly less > in diameter, and fits on a 6cm long shaft that's less than 1mm in > diameter. It resembled the gear that you frequently see on the motor > shaft. I suppose I'll have to take some pictures the next time I'm at the > farm. Those seem rather small. Are we taliing about plotters, or ladies wrist watches? less than 2 millimeters diameter? 2 centimeters (~3/4 inch) is more what I can imagine in plotters. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 30 19:36:33 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020131013633.78979.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > Those seem rather small. Are we taliing about plotters, or ladies wrist > watches? > > less than 2 millimeters diameter? > 2 centimeters (~3/4 inch) is more what I can imagine in plotters. This is a Commodore plotter for the C-64, VIC-20, etc. It takes paper that resembles cash register tape. It is much smaller than, say, an HP 7475 plotter that takes full sheets of paper. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From blstuart at bellsouth.net Wed Jan 30 18:23:45 2002 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:10:07 +0000 (UTC) . Message-ID: In message , Sellam Ismail w rites: >On Tue, 29 Jan 2002 blstuart@bellsouth.net wrote: > >> I do have the first one I ever owned. It's a microprocessor trainer from >> Motorola. It's got a 4801 (a little CMOS version of the 6800) and all of >> 256 bytes of memory. The interface is 8 toggle switches for data, 8 LEDs >> for output and 3 toggle switches for control. It even had a cassette >> interface. > >Cool. What's the model number? Well, now I had to dig it out of storage because I couldn't remember. It was only the 5th box or so down the stack, so it's ok. On the front, it's labeled "Educator II Microcomputer." To the right of that there's a cute little logo with two hands with transistors and a diode connecting them. Around the logo it says HEP kit by Motorola. Opening the box, I found one of the projects I did with it. There's a little PC board I etched to burn 2716s 128 bytes at a time. A couple of others included playing simple music out the cassette interface and driving a Model 15 navy teletype to print banners. Brian L. Stuart From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 30 18:35:42 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > Yes, I would. I've installed NetBSD on an IBM PS/1. > > > > I believe I have one of these systems out in storage, but it is lacking a > > hard drive. The one I have has (I think) 3 cables that connect the display > > to the computer. I guess I should find it and see exactly what it is. > > It isn't worth it. They are slow, useless PC's that have parts of DOS > burned into ROM. Woo...sounds like a real challenge then :) I'll save it as a project for a slow month sometime. -Toth From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jan 30 18:53:42 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > Yes, I would. I've installed NetBSD on an IBM PS/1. > > > > > > I believe I have one of these systems out in storage, but it is lacking a > > > hard drive. The one I have has (I think) 3 cables that connect the display > > > to the computer. I guess I should find it and see exactly what it is. > > > > It isn't worth it. They are slow, useless PC's that have parts of DOS > > burned into ROM. > > Woo...sounds like a real challenge then :) > I'll save it as a project for a slow month sometime. They're beyond challenging. They're painful. Every thing that could be badly designed, is. Peace... Sridhar From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 30 19:39:51 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020131013951.76717.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > The smallest gear is the one on the motor spindle. Which is what you'd > expect -- you want to reduce speed (and step angle), and increase torque. Since I don't have mine in front of me, I'll have to say that your explanation sounds logical and you are probably right; I've just remembered things backwards. > So you have the input on a small gear and the output on a larger one. Makes sense. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 30 18:35:57 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: Free "classic" junk in SF bay area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > 1 Shugart SA801 8" floppy drive > > Free for pickup in SF bay area... > ...and the vultures begin to circle :) Want some new drive belts and other parts? From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 30 18:45:32 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: spam/avoidance of In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Gene Buckle wrote: > Easy fix. Use hotmail to tell your friends to use ISPs that aren't so > spammer friendly that they get blacklisted. That's fine for my friends. I can contact you. But what about my CUSTOMERS? Somebody who I've never met wants to buy. But my ISP that hosts my domain bounces his mail. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 NOTE: My ISP is having difficulties. If you have problems reaching me at this e-mail address, you can leave a message at: fcisin@merritt.edu From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 30 18:49:11 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: spam/avoidance of In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020130150425.02841080@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > not so easy fix, your ISP can get on a blacklist from spoofed headers, > there are a handful of the blacklists out there that just add you, without > verifying that the spam did , in fact originate at your domain :( That is true. Some? of the blacklists will blacklist any site that COULD be used, based entirely on whether they have things like reverse DNS configured properly. How about an entire Community College being blacklisted (without ever having been hijacked)? And the "Network Administrator" is apparently not capable of fixing it! From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Jan 30 19:08:15 2002 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: Docs for QBus cards wanted In-Reply-To: <20020130234100.C83881@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020129225009.025d6e10@209.185.79.193> <20020130002335.C80544@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <3C5778A0.2030804@aurora.regenstrief.org> <5.1.0.14.2.20020129225009.025d6e10@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020130170728.02f14550@mcmanis.com> Except that it isn't true. The CXY08 _does_ work but the CXA16 does not. Further the CXY08 doesn't work in DMA mode. --Chuck At 02:41 PM 1/30/02, Jochen Kunz wrote: >On 2002.01.30 07:51 Chuck McManis wrote: > > > I thought I had put it up already. You can find it at: > > >Ahhh. Seams that the CXA16 is already supported by NetBSD, as it >emulates a DHU11 or DHV11. (Jumper selectable.) So no need for kernel >hacking here. The same for the CXY08. > >But I still need the connector pinout for the Emulex QS09. This emulates >two CXY08 and has four 36 pin DB-HD connectors. >-- > > > >tsch??, > Jochen > >Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jan 30 19:12:54 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: 9 track tapes In-Reply-To: Dave McGuire "Re: 9 track tapes" (Jan 30, 18:19) References: <15448.32619.634017.536066@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <10201310112.ZM22161@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 30, 18:19, Dave McGuire wrote: > On January 30, Matt London wrote: > > Quick question, I've got a Cipher F880 here (no tapes yet - anyone in > > the UK wanna help out? :&) and someone just asked me what the maximum > > capacity of the drive is.... > > The Cipher F880 is a 1600bpi drive, if memory serves. It might also > do 800bpi. Capacity depends on the block size...but on average, at > 1600bpi on a 2400' reel, you'll get about 40MB or so. That's what I thought, but I didn't want to be the first to reply because I'm not really sure. If it does support both 800bpi and 1600bpi, and you're in the UK not too far from York, I have an 800bpi tape which I can't read on my 1600bpi drive, and would like copied sometime. It's an original 7th Edition distribution tape from the UK distribution centre at HWU, and I've wanted to put it on the PUPS archive for a long time. Apart from the fact that it's probably the tape used for the machine sitting a few feet away frm me, which also came from HWU. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jan 30 19:17:31 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: Dec PDP-8 Lamps In-Reply-To: Marvin Johnston "Dec PDP-8 Lamps" (Jan 30, 15:36) References: <3C58838A.F367036D@rain.org> Message-ID: <10201310117.ZM22171@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 30, 15:36, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > What is the voltage, current, and style of the lamps used on the PDP-8 > series of computers? I recall seeing 14V, 28V lamps both mentioned, but > no current ratings. My PDP-8/E uses 12V or 14V bulbs, running off an 8V (nominal) supply. I'm sure I posted some of the details to the list not very long ago, when I was thinking about replacing the non-original LEDs with original bulbs. Other models may very well be different, though. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 30 19:42:20 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:25 2005 Subject: Dec PDP-8 Lamps In-Reply-To: <10201310117.ZM22171@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20020131014220.80960.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- Pete Turnbull wrote: > My PDP-8/E uses 12V or 14V bulbs, running off an 8V (nominal) supply. Yes... different bulbs, different circuits. > Other models may very well be different, though. The PDP-8/E uses TTL logic. The R-series stuff does not. The supply rails are +10VDC and -15VDC... not the same. The pre-TTL stuff apparently uses 28VDC bulbs with a wire base, running off a nominal 12VDC. They obviously learned something from their early products. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 30 10:59:34 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: A Special Announcement From Dish Network and the Armor Security Corporation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > What are the BENEFITS of having open posting? Being able to post from a different account when you're away from your own computer? Not a very good reason. Otherwise, none. > How often do we get non-subscribers posting about stuff to rescue? Not enough to put up with spam. > Is THREE enough to warrant closing it? One was enough as far as I'm concerned. > I DIDN'T!! I really don't think that I got it and failed to see it. You must have. It went to the list. Unless you have some sort of spam filtering on? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 30 11:06:18 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: AN/UYKs In-Reply-To: <8053C68F752FD511A76700C0A8349206161F@PLAYBOX> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Peter J. Gerry wrote: > my friend steve might know about these - he collects them, are they > available ? thanks, pete Speaking of these, I got a set of manuals for this a couple weeks after the discussion. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Jan 30 17:11:40 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: Have you guys seen this? Message-ID: <1012432302.1257.3.camel@fop> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1326762437 It's an Altair 8800b.....lovely.... -- witchy/adrian www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans Linux Powered! From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 30 19:56:32 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > > > Yes, I would. I've installed NetBSD on an IBM PS/1. > > > > > > > > I believe I have one of these systems out in storage, but it is lacking a > > > > hard drive. The one I have has (I think) 3 cables that connect the display > > > > to the computer. I guess I should find it and see exactly what it is. > > > > > > It isn't worth it. They are slow, useless PC's that have parts of DOS > > > burned into ROM. > > > > Woo...sounds like a real challenge then :) > > I'll save it as a project for a slow month sometime. > > They're beyond challenging. They're painful. Every thing that could > be badly designed, is. Well now, that sounds like my kind of project :) Is the PS/1 computer I described even the same one you mentioned? -Toth From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 30 19:56:59 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) In-Reply-To: <20020131013633.78979.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > Those seem rather small. Are we taliing about plotters, or ladies wrist > > watches? > > less than 2 millimeters diameter? > > 2 centimeters (~3/4 inch) is more what I can imagine in plotters. > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > This is a Commodore plotter for the C-64, VIC-20, etc. It takes > paper that resembles cash register tape. It is much smaller than, > say, an HP 7475 plotter that takes full sheets of paper. > O < ^ OK, so the gear is smaller than the letter 'O' in 12 point type. That would certainly be more difficult to repair. I don't think that I would want to attempt to glue that back together! www.smallparts.com is a handy source for gears and stuff, but for something less than 2 millimeters diameter, you are definitely in the watchmaker realm. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 30 20:15:16 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020131021516.38590.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > less than 2 millimeters diameter? > > > 2 centimeters (~3/4 inch) is more what I can imagine in plotters. > > > O < > ^ > > OK, so the gear is smaller than the letter 'O' in 12 point type. The diameter is slightly smaller than that - (the max height of a 12 point letter is 12/72nd of an inch, or 1/6" or .167") 2mm was an appoximation on my part on behalf of the Europeans reading. The actual size, as I've posted before, is about 0.175" tall, about 0.145" diameter. > That would certainly be more difficult to repair. I don't think that I > would want to attempt to glue that back together! Exactly. Any glue used would likely clog the bottom of one of the teeth. > www.smallparts.com is a handy source for gears and stuff, but for > something less than 2 millimeters diameter, you are definitely in the > watchmaker realm. It's not a flat gear... it's taller than it is across. The idea of a slice of pinion rod is a good one, presuming I can find something with the correct number of teeth and pitch. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Jan 30 19:58:32 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: Free "classic" junk in SF bay area In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3C585068.15217.1336D9B6@localhost> But he doesn't like Canadians. Lawrence > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > > 1 Shugart SA801 8" floppy drive > > 1 IBM 5151 AT computer > > 10 Reels 9 track tape - used... > > 1 VOXPC ISA voice synth > > > > Free for pickup in SF bay area... > > ...and the vultures begin to circle :) > > -Toth > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Jan 30 19:58:32 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W! In-Reply-To: References: from "Tothwolf" at Jan 29, 2 09:03:10 pm Message-ID: <3C585068.26637.1336D98E@localhost> Possibly the Euro package was different from the american one. A covered printer roll with slide-in brackets. Attached in the box with the roll inside.. Lawrence > > > > On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > Anyway, mine has a built-in PSU. Just an IEC plug on the back ('kettle > > > plug') that, in my case, takes in 240V AC. I guess they were made with > > > different transformers for other voltages. > > > > It would appear that mine does as well. I never looked at it closely, > > since it looked like a brick or wall-wart was supposed to fit into the > > styrofoam packing. I guess nothing went there. > > Paper roll? > > IIRC. the paper roll does not fit inside the 1520, it hangs on the back > on a couple of silly brackets. Which were packed separately in the box. > Presumably the paper roll had to go somewhere. > > Or maybe a 'kettle lead'? I'd expect it to have come with one. > > -tony > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Jan 30 19:58:32 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3C585068.31973.1336D95C@localhost> Damn., I wish you guys wouldn't necessitate me having to unbury items. First of all there's an indentation on the outside of the styrofoam for the manual. Inside is a circular cut-out for the cable, another slot for the crayon tube, a long slot with a short boot bottom for the standard power cord that would never be big enough for a wall-wart and the main cut-out with room for the print roll and plastic box cover which could be slipped out of the slide-in brackets. Scooped it from a dumpster. Never used except by me to test it. Lawrence > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > > Anyway, mine has a built-in PSU. Just an IEC plug on the back ('kettle > > > > plug') that, in my case, takes in 240V AC. I guess they were made with > > > > different transformers for other voltages. > > > > > > It would appear that mine does as well. I never looked at it closely, > > > since it looked like a brick or wall-wart was supposed to fit into the > > > styrofoam packing. I guess nothing went there. > > > > Paper roll? > > > > IIRC. the paper roll does not fit inside the 1520, it hangs on the back > > on a couple of silly brackets. Which were packed separately in the box. > > Presumably the paper roll had to go somewhere. > > > > Or maybe a 'kettle lead'? I'd expect it to have come with one. > > Nope, there is a separate cut-out in the styrofoam where the cables were > packed. The cutout I mentioned is about 3" in diameter, about 4" deep, and > has a square bit of cardboard fitted into it. It looked about the right > size for a wall-wart to fit into. > > Commodore's 1520 (mine at least) has an enclosed paper roll hanger on the > back of the unit. It seemed to be attached from the factory. > > -Toth > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Jan 30 19:58:32 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: PKZIP problem In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020130104720.007d6ae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3C585068.16678.1336D9ED@localhost> Well likely it's a lack of knowledge on my part, but my NEXT seemed to insist on .pkg to unzip, altho tar is mentioned in the docs as native. I was reared with M-Sloth and Atari TOS and later with other home computers so the ideosyncrisities of UNIX tend to baffle me. CLI on a UNIX system may be simple for you old hands but I've rarely had problems with most of the Zip versions I've used on home machines. Maybe I'M the lowest common denominator. Lawrence > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Joe wrote: > > > > Any ideas about what's wrong? > > > > That's easy. You're not using tar. > > It had to be said.... > > Doc > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From spc at conman.org Wed Jan 30 20:18:31 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: PKZIP problem In-Reply-To: <3C585068.16678.1336D9ED@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Jan 30, 2002 07:58:32 PM Message-ID: <200201310218.VAA26224@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Lawrence Walker once stated: > > Well likely it's a lack of knowledge on my part, but my NEXT seemed to > insist on .pkg to unzip, altho tar is mentioned in the docs as native. .pkg is probably specific to NeXT, as I haven't heard of it under Unix. -spc (And on every Unix system I've used I've found tar ... ) From vcf at vintage.org Wed Jan 30 11:31:17 2002 From: vcf at vintage.org (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: Nuclear Data 66? Message-ID: Has anyone ever heard of Nuclear Data? I found this cool-assed computer today. It's an all-in-one unit (CRT/keyboard/diskdrive/CPU) and is fairly big (say, as big as an IBM Datamaster, bigger than a PET). The coolest part about it is that it seems to be LSI/11 compatible. At least it has a DEC bus (whatever the bus is called that had quad slot connectors). The card cage pulls out from the back and is situated behind the CRT. I couldn't find the processor card because there were too many cables jumbled around. It seems to have a couple firmware cards. I wasn't able to boot it up because I couldn't find the right kind of power cable (it uses one of those oval shaped power cables...I just saw one the other day and now can't remember where I put it). A Google search turns up nothing relevant. I would have snapped a digital photo but my camera is malfunctioning. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Jan 30 20:27:03 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3C585717.11494.1350F44A@localhost> Once you've bypassed the Stub in ROM which had the quad menu they are as useful as any box of that era. My 2133 386 was the equal of any of the clones and also with IBM support. I have a PS/1 2111 286 that has a great display (the PSU was in the monitor module) and ran Win better than most of the other clones and the the 5170 as well. Lawrence > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > > > Yes, I would. I've installed NetBSD on an IBM PS/1. > > > > > > > > I believe I have one of these systems out in storage, but it is lacking a > > > > hard drive. The one I have has (I think) 3 cables that connect the display > > > > to the computer. I guess I should find it and see exactly what it is. > > > > > > It isn't worth it. They are slow, useless PC's that have parts of DOS > > > burned into ROM. > > > > Woo...sounds like a real challenge then :) > > I'll save it as a project for a slow month sometime. > > They're beyond challenging. They're painful. Every thing that could be > badly designed, is. > > Peace... Sridhar > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jan 30 20:32:19 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > > > Yes, I would. I've installed NetBSD on an IBM PS/1. > > > > > > > > > > I believe I have one of these systems out in storage, but it is lacking a > > > > > hard drive. The one I have has (I think) 3 cables that connect the display > > > > > to the computer. I guess I should find it and see exactly what it is. > > > > > > > > It isn't worth it. They are slow, useless PC's that have parts of DOS > > > > burned into ROM. > > > > > > Woo...sounds like a real challenge then :) > > > I'll save it as a project for a slow month sometime. > > > > They're beyond challenging. They're painful. Every thing that could > > be badly designed, is. > > Well now, that sounds like my kind of project :) > > Is the PS/1 computer I described even the same one you mentioned? Well, the ones I am talking about are all IBM PS/1's. The later ones are basically Aptiva's (craptiva's), and are built by Acer, rather than IBM-PCCO/Guadalajara. Peace... Sridhar From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 30 20:27:31 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: A Special Announcement From Dish Network and the Armor Security Corporation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > What are the BENEFITS of having open posting? > Being able to post from a different account when you're away from your own > computer? Not a very good reason. Otherwise, none. I don't think that I would want to post from an account where I wasn't also able to READ. Otherwise, how would you get the answers to questions? Or Richard's comments? > > How often do we get non-subscribers posting about stuff to rescue? > Not enough to put up with spam. If somebody had time on their hands, non-subscriber submissions could be redirected to somebody willing to filter them and forward to the list (and be able to get first grabs?) > You must have. It went to the list. Unless you have some sort of spam > filtering on? Not on this domain. I don't want to turn away customers until after I meet them. So, I must have gotten it and deleted it without ever noticing it! Conditioned reflex? Or maybe I thought that it was further stuff about BNCs from certain people. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 30 20:29:30 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W! In-Reply-To: <3C585068.31973.1336D95C@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > First of all there's an indentation on the outside of the styrofoam > for the manual. Inside is a circular cut-out for the cable, another > slot for the crayon tube, a long slot with a short boot bottom for the > standard power cord that would never be big enough for a wall-wart and > the main cut-out with room for the print roll and plastic box cover > which could be slipped out of the slide-in brackets. Scooped it from a > dumpster. Never used except by me to test it. The packing I have has the place for a power cord, but the circular cut-out has a square bit of cardboard in it. I didn't notice a slot for the pen tube, but I wasn't looking for it. -Toth From celigne at tinyworld.co.uk Wed Jan 30 18:28:04 2002 From: celigne at tinyworld.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help References: Message-ID: <3C588F94.362E198@tinyworld.co.uk> Tothwolf wrote: > > I'd also like to find a service manual for [a VT340], so that I > can go through the basic checks and alignment procedures once I find > a replacement. There is a VT340-specific Pocket Service Guide (which I don't have), but in case you find it any help, I've just uploaded the VT330 Pocket Service Guide, EK-VT330-PS-002. http://vt100.net/docs/vt330-ps/ (1.8MB download, PDF or TIFF) (Nice cover page will have to wait until morning!) - Paul From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 30 20:45:20 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help In-Reply-To: <3C588F94.362E198@tinyworld.co.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Paul Williams wrote: > Tothwolf wrote: > > > > I'd also like to find a service manual for [a VT340], so that I > > can go through the basic checks and alignment procedures once I find > > a replacement. > > There is a VT340-specific Pocket Service Guide (which I don't have), but > in case you find it any help, I've just uploaded the VT330 Pocket > Service Guide, EK-VT330-PS-002. I've noticed a general lack of documentation on the VT340 when compared to all the other terminals DEC made. Was the 340 just not as common? I know it has lots of extra features not found on most of the other terminals. Maybe it was out of most companies price range due to the "extras"? > http://vt100.net/docs/vt330-ps/ (1.8MB download, PDF or TIFF) Thanks, will have a look, but I don't know how much will apply to the VT340. -Toth From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jan 30 20:32:19 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > > > Yes, I would. I've installed NetBSD on an IBM PS/1. > > > > > > > > > > I believe I have one of these systems out in storage, but it is lacking a > > > > > hard drive. The one I have has (I think) 3 cables that connect the display > > > > > to the computer. I guess I should find it and see exactly what it is. > > > > > > > > It isn't worth it. They are slow, useless PC's that have parts of DOS > > > > burned into ROM. > > > > > > Woo...sounds like a real challenge then :) > > > I'll save it as a project for a slow month sometime. > > > > They're beyond challenging. They're painful. Every thing that could > > be badly designed, is. > > Well now, that sounds like my kind of project :) > > Is the PS/1 computer I described even the same one you mentioned? Well, the ones I am talking about are all IBM PS/1's. The later ones are basically Aptiva's (craptiva's), and are built by Acer, rather than IBM-PCCO/Guadalajara. Peace... Sridhar From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jan 30 20:46:53 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) In-Reply-To: from Julius Sridhar at "Jan 30, 2 01:57:32 pm" Message-ID: <200201310246.SAA12734@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > My smallest UNIX box right now is my TI-92 calculator. Explain explain explain! > Followed closely by a Toshiba Libretto. Lovely little machines :-) they almost make me like PCs. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. -- 1 Corinthians 8:1 --------------- From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jan 30 20:46:12 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W! In-Reply-To: <3C585068.26637.1336D98E@localhost> References: from "Tothwolf" at Jan 29, 2 09:03:10 pm <3C585068.26637.1336D98E@localhost> Message-ID: > Possibly the Euro package was different from the american one. A covered >printer roll with slide-in brackets. Attached in the box with the >roll inside.. My 1520 has a fairly sturdy mount for the paper holder, attached permanently to the back of the printer with a smoke-colored cover that flips up and back to allow the roll to be dropped into channels at the end of two arms. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jan 30 20:59:59 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: PKZIP problem In-Reply-To: <200201310218.VAA26224@conman.org> References: <200201310218.VAA26224@conman.org> Message-ID: > .pkg is probably specific to NeXT, as I haven't heard of it under Unix. As the name might suggest, it is a 'package' containing the program and all it's associated files, likely to include installation scripts and anything else needed. That then generally creates an .app file, which is actually a directory wich includes the files but is seen by the NeXT as being a single executable file. > -spc (And on every Unix system I've used I've found tar ... ) Drop to the CLI on a NeXT and you'll find tar there as well. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Wed Jan 30 05:03:24 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help References: Message-ID: <3C57D2FC.E1A5D17C@Vishay.com> Um, er - my five cents... Tony Duell wrote: > Anyway, the CRT looks to be pretty standard. 12", 90 degree deflection, > modified B7G base, 12V (or so) heater, standard pinout. I would be very > suprised if a monochrome TV tube with the same parameters (and thus > similar in other respects) couldn't be got to work here. I seem to remember from ancient times, when I wrote a graphics "driver" for a VT125 (ReGIS), that the screen has a somewhat nonstandard aspect ratio. TV would have 4:3 (4 pieces wide, 3 high), while the VT1xx screen was something like 8:5 - at least numbers that I never had come across before. Maybe this just refers to the visible picture, and the tube is standard though. Yesterday evening, I dug out the microfiches, and, indeed, there is a "VT100 Technical Manual", part no. EP-VT100-TM-001, dated "Sep 1980". If anything out of these two fiches can help you, we'll need to find a way of scanning them. Reduction ratio is 42:1. About the keyboard interface, it essentially says that this is async, full-duplex on a single wire. The kludge is to have either end pull the line up or down through a resistor. If you tap the center of this voltage divider, which happens to be the actual line, and know what level your own side is asserting, you can tell what the other side is doing with a little OP-AMP wizardry (an analog "computor"? ;-). And, yes, they use 12V there, so there are sufficient reasons not to connect this to TTL directly. The manual also says that once in each vertical period, a status byte is sent to the keyboard to update the LEDs and to initiate a keyboard scan. Shouldn't this be visible with a scope? - It might give a hint if the terminal or the keyboard is broken. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 30 21:19:42 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help In-Reply-To: <3C57D2FC.E1A5D17C@Vishay.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > Yesterday evening, I dug out the microfiches, and, indeed, there is a > "VT100 Technical Manual", part no. EP-VT100-TM-001, dated "Sep 1980". > If anything out of these two fiches can help you, we'll need to find a > way of scanning them. Reduction ratio is 42:1. It's not possible to scan fiche directly (or so I've been told/shown). You first have to use a fiche printer (not cheap), then scan the paper copy. I may end up buying a fiche printer later this year if things work out. I had planned to buy one by mid this year, but looks like I won't be able to. -Toth From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Wed Jan 30 21:21:06 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) References: Message-ID: <3C58B822.B00ACFF7@verizon.net> You'd really only make a mold like that if you intended to produce many, due to the expense. And that would be if your mold was at least a three part, with the mold cavity having a through hole, to be capped off on each end by other components of the mold. If you preferred a blind ( not through ) hole cavity, you would probably burn the teeth into it ( after boring out most of the material first ) with a conventional electrode type EDM machine, which might also be a whole lot easier to home brew than a wire type. But then you generally have to machine the electrodes. Easier to do because you would be machining the teeth on it's OD, but machining graphite is a messy, nasty task, and you still need a cutter, though a hand ground fly cutter might do ( milling saw type better ). Other very realistic possibility is ... For an alternate to thread wires, use the shank portion of drill bits. Between all the fractional, wire gage, and letter sizes, there are an awful lot to choose from. You often are able to find something within a thou or so, if not tenths. For info on measuring gears etc, check Machinery's Handbook put out by the Industrial Press. It is the machinist's and mechanical designer's bible. For Tony, having a lathe. If you had a plate, turned circular to indicate it in when you set it up, with the same number of holes as teeth on the gear, drilled in a evenly spaced circular bolt pattern on the face of the plate, bolted to the lathe chuck, and a fixed portion bolted to the bed ( or ways, or headstock, etc. ) with a pin that would locate into the holes in the plate, it could serve as a dividing head for use on the lathe. Then hand grind a slotter type cutting tool to the shape of the valley between the gear teeth, mount it in the tool post, and by moving the carriage up and down the ways, cut that shape into a blank a little shave at a time, dialing the next depth of cut on the cross slide, just like on a slotter ( or shaper ). Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > > > > > but the mould would be very hard to make (cutting > > > internal teeth on a mould that size) > > > > Wire EDM > > Now that's an interesting idea.... I've seen books/articles on making an > EDM setup. Looks like another thing I should investigate more seriously > sometime... > > -tony From louiss at gate.net Wed Jan 30 21:23:39 2002 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: Nuclear Data 66? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Your web search skills need some work. Start with: www.spies.com/~aek/orphanage.html and www.fortunecity.com/marina/reach/435/complist.html. There were also some posts on this list regarding Nuclear Data cards for LSI-11. I am sure Uncle Al could tell you more. Louis On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 17:31:17 +0000 (UTC), Vintage Computer Festival wrote: # #Has anyone ever heard of Nuclear Data? I found this cool-assed computer #today. It's an all-in-one unit (CRT/keyboard/diskdrive/CPU) and is fairly #big (say, as big as an IBM Datamaster, bigger than a PET). # #The coolest part about it is that it seems to be LSI/11 compatible. At #least it has a DEC bus (whatever the bus is called that had quad #slot connectors). # #The card cage pulls out from the back and is situated behind the CRT. I #couldn't find the processor card because there were too many cables #jumbled around. It seems to have a couple firmware cards. I wasn't able #to boot it up because I couldn't find the right kind of power cable (it #uses one of those oval shaped power cables...I just saw one the other day #and now can't remember where I put it). # #A Google search turns up nothing relevant. # #I would have snapped a digital photo but my camera is malfunctioning. # #-- # #Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival #------------------------------------------------------------------------------ #International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org # # * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * # From curt at atari-history.com Wed Jan 30 21:28:50 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: Nuclear Data 66? References: Message-ID: <002301c1aa07$69062d30$0a00a8c0@cvendel> So stop braging Sellam.... lets see some pictures of your new find! ;-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 12:31 PM Subject: Nuclear Data 66? > > Has anyone ever heard of Nuclear Data? I found this cool-assed computer > today. It's an all-in-one unit (CRT/keyboard/diskdrive/CPU) and is fairly > big (say, as big as an IBM Datamaster, bigger than a PET). > > The coolest part about it is that it seems to be LSI/11 compatible. At > least it has a DEC bus (whatever the bus is called that had quad > slot connectors). > > The card cage pulls out from the back and is situated behind the CRT. I > couldn't find the processor card because there were too many cables > jumbled around. It seems to have a couple firmware cards. I wasn't able > to boot it up because I couldn't find the right kind of power cable (it > uses one of those oval shaped power cables...I just saw one the other day > and now can't remember where I put it). > > A Google search turns up nothing relevant. > > I would have snapped a digital photo but my camera is malfunctioning. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Jan 30 21:36:08 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: PackRat Genome; spam thoughts Message-ID: For the Genome files: My first computer was a borrowed Cromemco Z2H system, 16K RAM, two Shugart SA400 drives, GE Terminet 30 console. It was eventually returned to the owner when I moved, circa 1978. Second computer was a borrowed Kaypro II, from the rathole computer store I worked at for six months.. it was a defective warranty return, and I fixed it and then took it home for 'testing' Ran the usual suite of Kaypro-bundled stuff atthe time (1983). From the same place I put together (from various scrap machines) a Morrow MDII system; it remained with me until my Collection got sold ..snif...snifff... The first computer I actually paid real money for was (is) a Mac SE30, that I bought for my music studio, running Performer version 1.9. I paid $1988.50 for the system with the software in 1986 or 7... anyway the machine is still a part of the studio equipment, although it now runs vintage library and MIDI set-up programs for some of my vintage synths... it's on it's second hard drive, and was the first machine I ever had to be infected with a virus - the replacement HD came from CMS, and a disgruntled employee in the QC dept was squirting nVir onto random HDs as he tested them... it would grab the Mac speaker and say 'Don't Panic..." at odd intervals. This list doesn't really get much Spam, even though I hate the shit as much as anyone... I think the cure must be adjusted to fit the severity of the offense... we don't discipline jaywalkers with shotguns, and closing down the list and instituting Bushian draconisms is kind of dumb, IMHO. The ISP I subscribe to is pretty good about such stuff, and personal spam to my account tends to come in small waves - two or four a week for a bit and then none... I just hit the 'DEL' button, and Pine takes care of the rest. There are enough folks here who will spank the spammers, much more effectively than I can (or have the time for), so I'm content to let it be as-is. If the List were overwhelmed on a daily basis with the usual Usenet XXXPorn - Warez - MakeMOneyFast - MyDaughterHasCancerSendCashPlease shit, that would be cause for Action. Right now, I just Delete and move on. Cheerz Sanford Wallace (Surpised no-one mentioned CyberPromo yet..) From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Wed Jan 30 21:39:02 2002 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: A Special Announcement From Dish Network and the Armor SecurityCorporation References: Message-ID: <3C58BC56.1B4F2B80@verizon.net> Once every ten days, I just click delete. It's really the sensible solution. "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > You don't need to be a subscriber to post a message to classiccmp. I > > think 3 spams in one month is enough evidence that perhaps we need to > > finally do away with this convenient anachronism. It's unfortunate but I > > think it's in the best interest of our beloved mailing list. > > What are the BENEFITS of having open posting? How often do we get > non-subscribers posting about stuff to rescue? > Is THREE enough to warrant closing it? > > > > (Yes, I got a copy of this spam too) > > Of course, as did everyone else who is currently subscribed :) > > I DIDN'T!! I really don't think that I got it and failed to see it. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jhfine at idirect.com Wed Jan 30 21:49:12 2002 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: Anti-Spam Questions? (Was: A Special Announcement From Dish Network and the Armor SecurityCorporation) References: <3C582120.5D53C43A@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <3C58BEB8.F70B571C@idirect.com> >Andreas Freiherr wrote: > Maybe slightly OT, but... > Right! The best way to fight spam is not to react at all: even spammers > will let dead people alone. > However, there's one thing that is even better than playing "dead man": > "teergrubing" (see > http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/teergrube.html for the > word, and if that sounds interesting, the FAQ is > http://www.iks-jena.de/mitarb/lutz/usenet/teergrube.en.html) > I love the idea! > Andreas Jerome Fine replies: I also find that spam is annoying and I was wondering if there is anything an individual can do except to change to a different e-mail address? In that respect, can anyone suggest how long an e-mail address needs to be unavailable before the spam will stop for that address? I realize that changing my e-mail address constantly will be very inconvenient. Is there any other way to completely stop spam other than by not giving out my e-mail address? Has anyone tried changing their e-mail address to stop spam and about how long does this seem to work? I am almost certain to be changing to a different ISP in the next few months, so my e-mail address will need to change in any case. I was thinking of adding Jan, Feb, etc. for each month in turn. Can anyone suggest if once a month is more frequent than needed? JFM, AMJ, JAS, OND would do if every three months is sufficient. I could instead use an extra 3 characters at random and just change them when the spam volume becomes too high, but that might prevent someone from sending me an e-mail more than a few weeks later. Or might three letters for the month be OK as a public e-mail address that only needs to be used when someone attempts to contact me after a random three character "addendum" to the address has been cancelled, but would never be used in normal correspondence? If that is so, any spam to that e-mail address would obviously be unsolicited at the least and difficult to "mine" at best. Perhaps if all of us made some suggestions, the above might be completely unsatisfactory, but some sort of anti-spam mechanism could be developed that was both simple and effective? I think this might be a very useful thread. In addition, one thing that also might help that I have found - before I run through my e-mails, I try to remember to turn OFF my internet connection. Since I am on a dial-up modem, this is normal for me in any case. When I do so, I notice that more than half the spam I receive attempt to connect to a "home" site to download additional bytes. Can anyone tell me if that could provide the site with my e-mail address (not to mention other stuff) for my system? By blocking the internet connection, I presume that presents any feedback. That has not stopped the spam, however. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From elund at egr.uh.edu Wed Jan 30 22:24:32 2002 From: elund at egr.uh.edu (Liz Lundgren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: Sterling Cypher IV 8073 board info Message-ID: Rich, I came across your newgroup message regarding the Sterling Cypher IV board. It was dated in October 2001. Anyway, I have come across one of these boards myself. I was wondering if you ever found the plans or instructions of any kind. If so, I would be happy to pay for a copy. Sincerely, Liz Lundgren From sloboyko at yahoo.com Wed Jan 30 22:29:20 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: IBM Punch Card Weight In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020131042920.42543.qmail@web11802.mail.yahoo.com> This is presently on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll ViewItem&item=2000040030 I've deleted the thread but I hope the person who needed it will see this. Asking a lot for a WEIGHT, tho! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Jan 30 23:02:51 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: S/36Doc (skating on thin ice) In-Reply-To: <20020129215911.42590.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > I'm working on reviving a 5362 right now. Please reply > off list with whatever persuasion is required to at > least allow me the use of them. I'd be very happy to > scan them all and make them available. While I am all for saving and scanning docs for older computers - I must say that this latest talk about scanning and making public relatively current IBM stuff is scary and dangerous. S/370(ish)s and S/36s are still out there, in suprising numbers. IBM has NOT given any permission for us to make the information public. Please, people, do not make this stuff public until IBM blesses it. They have been turning a blind eye in the classic computing world, but we would not want them to clamp down, would we? Lets wait a few years...anyway, S/36 and S/370 docs are fairly common. Now older IBMs - 650s, 1130s, and the like - are pretty much fair game, and I doubt IBM would really care. S/1s, S/3s, S/7s, S/88s, 8100s, and PC stuff, however, might cause problems. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com Thu Jan 31 00:40:31 2002 From: charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com (lee courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: S/36Doc (skating on thin ice) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020131064031.40362.qmail@web20801.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, An example of doing this in a way that avoided legal entanglements is what the 1620 Project at Computer History Museum (www.computerhistory.org) did. In the process of working with IBM, the 1620 Project obtained permission from IBM to scan all 1620 related documentation and software with the goal of making it available via the Museum's web site (via the Museum's CyberMuseum Project). The process took took well over a year, involving IBM legal and Lou Gerstner's office. Dave Babock, the project manager and driving force behind the 1620 restoration sheparded this difficult and tedious process. It turns out that the 1620 Project obtained permission to scan/post not only the 1620 documentation, but also a wide range of System/360, unit record, and material covering other systems of that era. There have been conversations about expanding this Agreement to other systems and the Museum obtaining copyright releases for other IP. We have a good working relationship with IBM so I am optimistic about that happening at some point in the future. I agree with most of Bill's comments about the danger of duplicating and disseminating these documents. However, IBM will not turn a blind eye to copyright violations of IP just because a document is for an 'older' system. If IBM ignored an IP violation, that could be used to weaken copyright claims on any of their other copyrighted material - old or new. I'm not a lawyer, nor have I played one on TV, but I doubt if there is a distinction with regards to a document being associated with a a system which is no longer sold (other than the expiration/non-renewal of a copyright). My $0.02. Email with questions/comments. Regards, Lee Courtney --- William Donzelli wrote: > > I'm working on reviving a 5362 right now. Please > reply > > off list with whatever persuasion is required to > at > > least allow me the use of them. I'd be very happy > to > > scan them all and make them available. > > While I am all for saving and scanning docs for > older computers - I must > say that this latest talk about scanning and making > public relatively > current IBM stuff is scary and dangerous. > S/370(ish)s and S/36s are still > out there, in suprising numbers. IBM has NOT given > any permission for us > to make the information public. Please, people, do > not make this stuff > public until IBM blesses it. They have been turning > a blind eye in the > classic computing world, but we would not want them > to clamp down, would > we? Lets wait a few years...anyway, S/36 and S/370 > docs are fairly common. > > Now older IBMs - 650s, 1130s, and the like - are > pretty much fair game, > and I doubt IBM would really care. S/1s, S/3s, S/7s, > S/88s, 8100s, and PC > stuff, however, might cause problems. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Thu Jan 31 06:58:25 2002 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: S/36Doc (skating on thin ice) Message-ID: While the offer to scan them was certainly noble, I really wouildn't expect anyone to actually do it. We're talking about perhaps 10,000 pages of documents here! SteveRob >From: William Donzelli >Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: S/36Doc (skating on thin ice) >Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 00:02:51 -0500 (EST) > > > I'm working on reviving a 5362 right now. Please reply > > off list with whatever persuasion is required to at > > least allow me the use of them. I'd be very happy to > > scan them all and make them available. > >While I am all for saving and scanning docs for older computers - I must >say that this latest talk about scanning and making public relatively >current IBM stuff is scary and dangerous. S/370(ish)s and S/36s are still >out there, in suprising numbers. IBM has NOT given any permission for us >to make the information public. Please, people, do not make this stuff >public until IBM blesses it. They have been turning a blind eye in the >classic computing world, but we would not want them to clamp down, would >we? Lets wait a few years...anyway, S/36 and S/370 docs are fairly common. > >Now older IBMs - 650s, 1130s, and the like - are pretty much fair game, >and I doubt IBM would really care. S/1s, S/3s, S/7s, S/88s, 8100s, and PC >stuff, however, might cause problems. > >William Donzelli >aw288@osfn.org _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Thu Jan 31 08:47:23 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: S/36Doc (skating on thin ice) Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706633E@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> >While the offer to scan them was certainly noble, I really wouildn't expect >anyone to actually do it. We're talking about perhaps 10,000 pages of >documents here! I'm not offering but ... I use a sheet-feed scanner that can work its way through maybe 300 double-sided Legal pages in about two hours of casual top-up-the-in-tray-on-the-way-to-coffee usage. So that's 10 weeks max. Now if you had to do the pages manually with a desktop scanner, you'd want payment plus medical bills :-) Antonio From ceby2 at csc.com Thu Jan 31 09:29:50 2002 From: ceby2 at csc.com (ceby2@csc.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: S/36Doc (skating on thin ice) Message-ID: Folks -- > I'm working on reviving a 5362 right now. Please reply > off list with whatever persuasion is required to at > least allow me the use of them. I'd be very happy to > scan them all and make them available. While I am all for saving and scanning docs for older computers - I must say that this latest talk about scanning and making public relatively current IBM stuff is scary and dangerous. S/370(ish)s and S/36s are still out there, in suprising numbers. IBM has NOT given any permission for us to make the information public. Please, people, do not make this stuff public until IBM blesses it. They have been turning a blind eye in the classic computing world, but we would not want them to clamp down, would we? Lets wait a few years...anyway, S/36 and S/370 docs are fairly common. Now older IBMs - 650s, 1130s, and the like - are pretty much fair game, and I doubt IBM would really care. S/1s, S/3s, S/7s, S/88s, 8100s, and PC stuff, however, might cause problems. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org I won't speak for other systems, but IBM publishes nothing for the hardware or original software on System/36 or System/38. The only reference they make to it anymore is the emulated environment still available under OS/400. I have a few contacts at IBM, and I've been in contact with their publications people. I haven't broached the subject yet, but I believe IBM like other vendors embraces it's history and will at least tacitly support hobbyists. My own strategy with System/36 will be to create the electronic media, then offer it to them as a _fait acompli_. I'm intending to ask them to host the documents themselves. I don't believe they'll do so on their publication website -- but IBM maintains a substantial forrest of FTP servers it's used for 15 years or more to support it's sales partners and field representatives. That seems a likely place to put them. I'm guessing the real reason why these things aren't available is IBM didn't wish to invest the time in maintaining them. They also wanted to encourage migration. But hobbyist are a new and accomodating market. And I have a certain amount of faith we'll see encouragement from them. First things first though. I actually have to get a hold of the document set. Irregardless of web availability, I'm sure an email in the right (my) direction will yeild results, when there are results to yield :->~ nudge nudge, wink wink, knowwhaddamean?! Colin Eby Senior Consultant CSC Consulting From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Jan 30 23:18:02 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: AN/UYKs In-Reply-To: <8053C68F752FD511A76700C0A8349206161F@PLAYBOX> Message-ID: > my friend steve might know about these - he collects them, are they > available ? thanks, pete Well, the bunch I had are pretty much all spoken for. They are leaking out of DRMS, but eventually that will completely stop. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Jan 30 23:22:09 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: AN/UYKs In-Reply-To: <20020130232051.66908.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Isn't that the DoD designation for a PDP-8? No. It means "general computer thingy", basically. It is a very vague nomenclature. Previously, computers tended to get lumped into the extremely vague AN/*SQ category. > I guess an AN/UYK-43 is a VMS-based 32-bit computer, the AN/UYK-20 > has core memory, the AN/UYK-64 is somehow DG compatible. Not sure > about any other models. Some, no doubt, are pure military designs, some are militarized commercial models, and some are just plain commercial types with no militarization. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jan 31 00:17:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: It's alive... It's alive References: Message-ID: <3C58E15D.D3F5B93@tiac.net> My pleasure Steve, Ok, your 9-track mag tape...thats a 7970E right? I'll email you some code off-list. If I email you ABS files, will your browser mess with them?? Steve Robertson wrote: > WhooHoo! > > After many days of tinkering and frustration, I finally have a HP1000/E > running BASIC. Now if I can just get it to talk to a 9-track tape drive... > Hmmm... Where did I leave that soldering iron ;-) > > Many thanks to Bob Shannon for his assistance. I couldn't have done it > without his help. > > SteveRob > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Thu Jan 31 07:31:58 2002 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: It's alive... It's alive Message-ID: > >Ok, your 9-track mag tape...thats a 7970E right? I have several 7978 drives with HPIB interfaces. I do not have a 7970 (yet). I am hoping the 7978 will be backwards compatible and work with the 1000/E without writing custom drivers, etc... I have not yet hooked up any HPIB devices to the 1000. Boy, I sure wish I had a 488 interface monitor... Hmmm... I think I know where there's one at :-) If anyone has any experience in making HPIB devices work with the HP 1000/E, I'd sure appreciave any pointers. >I'll email you some code off-list. If I email you ABS files, will your >browser mess with them?? I have not tried to download an ABS file via email yet. I had major problems downloading ABSs from Jeffs site using both Netscape and IE. For some reason, both those browsers could not handle the files. I thought this was rather strange because I have downloaded programs and other binary files without a problem. I was able to download clean binaries using the OPERA browser. If you have a small ABS file, send it and I'll see what happens. Meanwhile... I have been looking at the FST file format and it seems like it really isn't *that* difficult. I'm gonna spend a little time and see if I can decode (unarchive) some files into a more usable format. Looking over the file lists on the INTEREX site, there seems to be a bunch of really good stuff there if you can decode it. It's a real chicken and egg situation. If you already have RTE running with the FST archive utility, you can unarchive the files including RTE and FST. If you don't already have RTE with the FST utility, your stuck. I am supprized someone hasn't already written a cross platform decoder for this. Actually, they probably have... Hmm... Bet it's archived away somewhere in... FST FORMAT! Thanks again for the help, SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Jan 31 02:03:53 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: 9 track tapes In-Reply-To: <15448.33683.854267.704030@phaduka.neurotica.com>; from mcguire@neurotica.com on Thu, Jan 31, 2002 at 00:36:51 CET References: <15448.32619.634017.536066@phaduka.neurotica.com> <00c701c1a9e5$8f4bd0c0$0101a8c0@jay> <15448.33683.854267.704030@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20020131090353.A84632@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.01.31 00:36 Dave McGuire wrote: [cipher F880] > Ahh yes, I seem to remember something about 3200bpi on the > F880 now that you mention it. It surely can do 3200bpi. I have a F880 and it has a button for 3200bpi on the front. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Jan 31 02:18:50 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: Docs for QBus cards wanted In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020130170728.02f14550@mcmanis.com>; from cmcmanis@mcmanis.com on Thu, Jan 31, 2002 at 02:08:15 CET References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020129225009.025d6e10@209.185.79.193> <20020130002335.C80544@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <3C5778A0.2030804@aurora.regenstrief.org> <5.1.0.14.2.20020129225009.025d6e10@209.185.79.193> <20020130234100.C83881@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <5.1.0.14.0.20020130170728.02f14550@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <20020131091850.A86398@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.01.31 02:08 Chuck McManis wrote: > Except that it isn't true. The CXY08 _does_ work but the CXA16 does > not. Further the CXY08 doesn't work in DMA mode. Hmmm. I will have a look at it. Perhaps this wil result in an enhanceed dhu driver instead of a complete new driver... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From quapla at xs4all.nl Thu Jan 31 02:50:38 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: IBM Punch Card Weight References: <20020131042920.42543.qmail@web11802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C59055E.2345DED5@xs4all.nl> That one isn't the one needed for a Documentation M200 punchcard reader. Indeed, the asking price for (basically) a flat metal plate is a lot. Ed Loboyko Steve wrote: > > This is presently on eBay: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll > ViewItem&item=2000040030 > > I've deleted the thread but I hope the person who > needed it will see this. Asking a lot for a WEIGHT, > tho! > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! > http://auctions.yahoo.com -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Kilometerheffing : De overheid '97 TL1000S | weet waar je bent geweest! From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Thu Jan 31 06:52:16 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: Scanning Microfiche (was: VT131 needs keyboard help) References: Message-ID: <3C593E00.D107B4E4@Vishay.com> Toth, certainly not directly with an ordinary scanner: > It's not possible to scan fiche directly (or so I've been told/shown). Even if you were using a true 1200dpi device, you would end up with less than 30dpi after blowing up the image 1:42 back to it's original size. Sure, that's not what we want. But maybe there are devices or even companies specialized on scanning microfiche? - How would you load this information into an electronic archive on MO disks, for example? Some years ago, a friend of mine managed to get a couple of frames printed off these fiches, but the results weren't too good: poor contrast was the main problem. If you'd scan these prints, the results would certainly be unreadable. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Thu Jan 31 08:01:08 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: Scanning Microfiche (was: VT131 needs keyboard help) Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706633D@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> Andreas Freiherr wrote: >Even if you were using a true 1200dpi device, you would end up with less >than 30dpi after blowing up the image 1:42 back to it's original size. >Sure, that's not what we want. I've seen fiche scanners available commercially (I just did a google search when this came up a few months ago). All the ones I found seemed to be $10K+ ... >Some years ago, a friend of mine managed to get a couple of frames >printed off these fiches, but the results weren't too good: poor >contrast was the main problem. If you'd scan these prints, the results >would certainly be unreadable. Back in the early 1990s, I had access to a fiche printer - i.e. something that would print an A4 page of whatever the fiche reader was looking at. No automation (if you wanted the whole fiche as a set of pages you had to line it up yourself and hit a button for each page). That produced reasonable quality copy. If I still have any around I'll try to scan a sample page. I have no idea how much this thing cost but it was about the same volume as three or maybe four 21" monitors. Antonio From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jan 31 07:00:02 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) In-Reply-To: <200201310246.SAA12734@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > My smallest UNIX box right now is my TI-92 calculator. > > Explain explain explain! Well, it's a tiny little calculator based on a 10 MHz 68000 and 188KB of RAM, and 320 KB Flash ROM. It has a QWERTY keyboard and a 240X180 (?) screen. Check out http://www.ticalc.org/ and look under TI-92+. > > Followed closely by a Toshiba Libretto. > > Lovely little machines :-) they almost make me like PCs. I love my Libretto. I wouldn't like it so much with Windows. The Thinkpad X series is almost as good. Peace... Sridhar From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 31 07:26:10 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:26 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020131132610.10654.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> --- Julius Sridhar wrote: > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > > My smallest UNIX box right now is my TI-92 calculator. > > > > Explain explain explain! > > Well, it's a tiny little calculator based on a 10 MHz 68000 and 188KB of > RAM, and 320 KB Flash ROM. It has a QWERTY keyboard and a 240X180 (?) > screen. Check out http://www.ticalc.org/ and look under TI-92+. Looks way cool. The 68000 is one of my favorite chips, too. The bad news is the price... I just looked up several auctions on ePay and find that they auction for more than my iOpener or my Audrey. :-( Still... if I ever run across one for under $100 (hah!), I'll probably pick it up and throw UNIX on it. With that tiny screen, can you still play rogue on it? NetHack? I'd throw a Z-machine interpreter on it if there were enough room... Zork anyone? (I suppose one could port a Z-machine interpreter to assembler; the data files start around 90KB for the oldest Infocom games - that begs the question, though: does it have a RAM disk with a filesystem?) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jan 31 07:47:53 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) In-Reply-To: <20020131132610.10654.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > My smallest UNIX box right now is my TI-92 calculator. > > > > > > Explain explain explain! > > > > Well, it's a tiny little calculator based on a 10 MHz 68000 and 188KB of > > RAM, and 320 KB Flash ROM. It has a QWERTY keyboard and a 240X180 (?) > > screen. Check out http://www.ticalc.org/ and look under TI-92+. > > Looks way cool. The 68000 is one of my favorite chips, too. The > bad news is the price... I just looked up several auctions on ePay > and find that they auction for more than my iOpener or my Audrey. :-( I was a math major, so my parents popped the $200 at the time to buy it. Regular retail now is around $160. It has *powerful* calculator functions. > Still... if I ever run across one for under $100 (hah!), I'll probably > pick it up and throw UNIX on it. > > With that tiny screen, can you still play rogue on it? NetHack? I'd > throw a Z-machine interpreter on it if there were enough room... Zork > anyone? (I suppose one could port a Z-machine interpreter to assembler; > the data files start around 90KB for the oldest Infocom games - that > begs the question, though: does it have a RAM disk with a filesystem?) Good question. I've never looked how storage is allocated. I'll look it up and let you know. Peace... Sridhar From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jan 31 09:00:15 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) References: Message-ID: <3C595BFE.75AD8C2F@internet1.net> Tiny little calculator???? It's the biggest modern calculator I've ever seen!! Any bigger and it would be a laptop! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Julius Sridhar wrote: > Well, it's a tiny little calculator based on a 10 MHz 68000 and 188KB of > RAM, and 320 KB Flash ROM. It has a QWERTY keyboard and a 240X180 (?) > screen. Check out http://www.ticalc.org/ and look under TI-92+. From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jan 31 09:24:08 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) In-Reply-To: <3C595BFE.75AD8C2F@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Tiny little calculator???? It's the biggest modern calculator I've ever > seen!! Any bigger and it would be a laptop! Any smaller and the QWERTY keyboard wouldn't fit. Peace... Sridhar From Bergho04 at bct.hva.nl Thu Jan 31 08:21:55 2002 From: Bergho04 at bct.hva.nl (L. Berghouwer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: HP7475 driver needed Message-ID: <3C596111.16646.120A0AE@localhost> Hi there, I have a plotter witch should work with the HP7475 configuration, the only problem is I can't find a driver for it. All help with finding it will be gratefully accepted. Thanks in advance Laurence Berghouwer Internal affairs A.S.V. Archimedes From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Jan 31 08:58:45 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) Message-ID: A good model railroad hobby shop (or a major suppliers like www.walthers.com) will have mould making and resin casting kits. Some of the current casting resins should be strong enough to use as a gear. You can make an open mould, pour the resin, then put a glass plate over the open side to smooth the casting, or just sand it smooth when it has cured. Another thing to try would be to make a mould from dental plaster or Hydrocal (a harder-than normal plaster of paris, available at hobby shops), then heat it and open cast with a low melting point metal. What I would do here is make the mould double-deep, then file the resulting casting to the correct thickness. Bob -----Original Message----- From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 4:07 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) > > There seem to be several possibilites : > > > > 1) Make a mould and injection-mould them yourself. I think the David > > Gingery injection moulding machine could easily do it, but the mould > > would be very hard to make (cutting internal teeth on a mould that size) > > Might not produce a clean casting, either. I bet the originals were moulded rather than machined.... Maybe then cleaned up by machining, though, but I doubt it, actually. The original gears are not that good quality. From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Jan 31 09:20:30 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: Update: Ill MV3100 Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146758F@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > ---------- > From: Matt London > > Hi, > I've been playing... > > It turns out the box seems much happier if the only devices on SCSI-A > are the RX23 and the RZ23 - no CORRPTN messages so far with that setup. > But that means I can't fit both the 1G VMS drive and the 1G NetBSD drive > in the case :&/ > > Well, if it's anything like the VAXServer 3100, can't you plug into SCSI-B inside the case? Maybe a new cable, or some sort of tap into the existing cable? No, I've never actually _seen_ a MV3100, either the guts or the outside... :-) --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 90581 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Jan 31 09:43:34 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467592@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > ---------- > From: Rick Bensene > > Quite off-topic, but probably of interest -- > > For small Unix machines, how about the wristwatch that runs Linux and > uses X11 for the display, developed at IBM? > > The original prototype used a small backlit LCD display, but the latest > version uses an Organic LED (OLED) display that is absolutely stunning! > > The machine runs with an ARM 7 CPU (Cirrus Logic EP7211), 8 Megs of > flash memory and 8 Megs of DRAM. The OLED display is 640x480. It has a > built-in Bluetooth transceiver, Lithium Polymer rechargeable battery, a > combination of touch screen and a jog dial for user interface, infra-red > interface. The watch 'program' is 'xclock'! > > There's a great article (with lots of pix) about the development in the > latest edition of IEEE's "Computer" journal (January 2002). > > Regards, > Rick Bensene > The Old Calculator Web Museum > http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators > > > > Sounds pretty neat. Do you know of a link for this story, or was it on paper? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 90581 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed Jan 30 23:19:11 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: spam/avoidance of In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020130150425.02841080@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020130211641.04590d10@mail.zipcon.net> Yup, and there's a couple of the blacklist operators that I have had the displeasure of dealing with, their software blacklists your domain if their test message is accepted by your MTA. I was using rulesets that accepted some questionable emails but never delivered them if they failed several post acceptance checks. they blacklisted that domain because of it. At 04:49 PM 1/30/02 -0800, you wrote: >On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > > not so easy fix, your ISP can get on a blacklist from spoofed headers, > > there are a handful of the blacklists out there that just add you, without > > verifying that the spam did , in fact originate at your domain :( > >That is true. Some? of the blacklists will blacklist any site that COULD >be used, based entirely on whether they have things like reverse DNS >configured properly. > >How about an entire Community College being blacklisted (without ever >having been hijacked)? And the "Network Administrator" is apparently not >capable of fixing it! From bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com Thu Jan 31 01:34:41 2002 From: bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: spam/avoidance of References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020130155742.00b16d28@mail.wincom.net> <20020130223614.GA13566@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <007c01c1a9df$2fd9ab40$0a00a8c0@cvendel> <3C58710E.DFDDBEC6@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <03b101c1aa29$bf8610e0$9101a8c0@mn> Though probably just for this reason, after Jan 31 Yahoo requires sender auth to go through their smtp server... Bill McDermith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Franchuk" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 3:17 PM Subject: Re: spam/avoidance of > Curt Vendel wrote: > > > > The biggest problem now what spammers are that they are using legitimate > > domains and spoofing real email address' to get their spam out to victims. > > Yahoo.com is most likely going to end up on the Remote Blackhole List if > > they continue to be hijacked by spammers, its becoming worse and worse as > > time goes by. > > I think allot of the spam is Yahoo generated. I rarely view > a geocities page because all the stupid popups. No I don't > want a CAM for my PC... > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Jan 31 04:07:21 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: spam/avoidance of References: Message-ID: <3C591759.36ED1208@ccp.com> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > > not so easy fix, your ISP can get on a blacklist from spoofed headers, > > there are a handful of the blacklists out there that just add you, without > > verifying that the spam did , in fact originate at your domain :( > > That is true. Some? of the blacklists will blacklist any site that COULD > be used, based entirely on whether they have things like reverse DNS > configured properly. > > How about an entire Community College being blacklisted (without ever > having been hijacked)? And the "Network Administrator" is apparently not > capable of fixing it! I remember when Dalnet blacklisted AOL users for several months. Really put the dampers on my IRC activities, as one of my better friends was an AOL subscriber. What really is needed is stronger rules on unsolicited e-mails. Maybe something like a no-send list, like we have here in Missouri for telemarketers. Gary Hildebrand From rschaefe at gcfn.org Thu Jan 31 06:08:59 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: spam/avoidance of References: <3C591759.36ED1208@ccp.com> Message-ID: <005c01c1aa50$11f8ace0$86469280@Y5F3Q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Hildebrand" To: Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 05:07 AM Subject: Re: spam/avoidance of > > I remember when Dalnet blacklisted AOL users for several months. Really > put the dampers on my IRC activities, as one of my better friends was an > AOL subscriber. > > What really is needed is stronger rules on unsolicited e-mails. Maybe > something like a no-send list, like we have here in Missouri for > telemarketers. Ohhh, not such a good idea. A no-call list works with telemarketers because ma bell _knows_ who's making the calls, and the 3733+3 phreaks who have the skill to skip that little annoyance aren't the same as the ones who spam. Spam mostly comes from computers with open relays-- the phone equivalent would be telemarketers calling from phones people left sitting in the windowsill or on the front porch when they're outta town. Spammers would see the no-call list as the Holy Grail of verified email lists. > > Gary Hildebrand Bob From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Jan 30 23:23:04 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: AN/UYKs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Speaking of these, I got a set of manuals for this a couple weeks after > the discussion. There are several of us that would REALLY like to see these. What model is this set for? William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 30 16:07:11 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: AN/UYKs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > > Speaking of these, I got a set of manuals for this a couple weeks after > > the discussion. > > There are several of us that would REALLY like to see these. What model > is this set for? I have: Programming Reference Manual for the AN/UYK-1 Computer System (Oct 1 1961) A Programmer's Guide to the AN/UYK-1 (TRW-130) Digital Computer (Mar 1962) An Introduction to the TRW-130 (AN/UYK-1) Data Processing System (Oct 1962) The TRW-130 AN/UYK-1 Data Processing System (sales data sheet) AN/UYK-1: A "Stored Logic" Multiple Purpose Digital Computer (Apr 21 1961) AN/UYK-1: A Multiple Purpose Digital Computer (brochure) AN/UYK-1 Logand Summary Chart AN/UYK-1 Computer Description M250-1U16 >From the introduction of the last document: "The AN/UYK-1 is a medium-sized, solid-state digital computer developed to military specifications by Ramo-Wooldridge for the Bureau of Ships for use as a standard Navy unit. All components of the computer are incorporated into the Federal Supply System. It is an off-the-shelf, high performance computer, designed for ease of operation, programming, and maintenance, with maximum reliability under prolonged, adverse oierational conditions. This computer is based on the use of a powerful digital technique called "Stored Logic" which achieves user convenience, adaptability, and low cost, by allowing the instantaneous digital organization of the computer to be specified as part of the program. This enables the programmer to take full advantage of the power inherent in the hardware." Never heard of Ramo-Woolridge but the "Introduction" document is copyright by "Thompson Ramo Wooldridge" which is TRW (I recall John Lawson telling me something of this before). The TRW Computer Division was in Canoga Park, Californaia, a hop, skip and jump from where I grew up (in Northridge). I have a couple computers made by Bunker-Ramo that supposedly came out of a bank. Same Ramo as in TRW? I am currently borrowing these from someone but am working on a deal to purchase them from him. When I do I can make them available for scanning. The pictures of the computer in the various publications is about 4 feet high and maybe 19" wide. It has 8 shelves of logic; the top shelf seems to have some sort of connector terminals and the second shelf contains a control panel. One of the brochures shows a guy wheeling it on a dolly, so it must have been light. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 30 23:34:49 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: AN/UYKs In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Jan 31, 2002 12:22:09 AM Message-ID: <200201310534.g0V5YnG22958@shell1.aracnet.com> > > I guess an AN/UYK-43 is a VMS-based 32-bit computer, the AN/UYK-20 A AN/UYK-43 is most *DEFINITELY* not VMS-based. It was built by Unisys. Zane From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Jan 30 23:56:58 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: AN/UYKs In-Reply-To: <200201310534.g0V5YnG22958@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: > A AN/UYK-43 is most *DEFINITELY* not VMS-based. It was built by Unisys. In the world of US military electronics procurement - Anything Is Possible! Very often, the firm that designs an electronic system for the military is not the firm that ends up making the system. It would be quite possible for Unisys to produce (under a very strict license) a DEC machine. Likewise, IBM could make DG designed boxes. It often gets weird - Helena Rubenstein (maker of lipstick and other cosmetics) was making radios for a while. Maybe you are completely correct about the AN/UYK-43 - it might not be a VMS based thing. Maybe not. The "built by" has nothing to do with it. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jan 31 00:22:58 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: AN/UYKs In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Jan 31, 2002 12:56:58 AM Message-ID: <200201310622.g0V6Mw024567@shell1.aracnet.com> > Maybe you are completely correct about the AN/UYK-43 - it might not be a > VMS based thing. Maybe not. The "built by" has nothing to do with it. As I said, it's *NOT* VMS based. It has absolutly *NOTHING* to do with DEC, and it's one *wierd* beast. Zane From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jan 31 00:37:31 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: AN/UYKs In-Reply-To: <200201310622.g0V6Mw024567@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: > As I said, it's *NOT* VMS based. It has absolutly *NOTHING* to do with DEC, > and it's one *wierd* beast. What is weird about it? It looks to be a reasonably current system. They may not hit the surplus market for a while (if ever). I know nothing about them. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 31 07:53:55 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: AN/UYKs In-Reply-To: <200201310534.g0V5YnG22958@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20020131135355.48006.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > > I guess an AN/UYK-43 is a VMS-based 32-bit computer, the AN/UYK-20 > > A AN/UYK-43 is most *DEFINITELY* not VMS-based. It was built by Unisys. Oops! Typo... I meant to type "VME", but I guess my fingers are more used to "VMS". Sorry. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Wed Jan 30 23:51:43 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: so, can you run UNIX on a PDP11/03 or not? Message-ID: <3C58DB6F.2080403@aurora.regenstrief.org> I hear mixed messages about that. Is there someone who knows, and not only if any, but also which version of UNIX would run? I want to give it a shot. Also, has anybody ever run a VAX11 in PDP mode for real? Sound pretty wild to me to spend so much money only to not use the virtual memory. cheers, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jan 31 00:00:59 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: so, can you run UNIX on a PDP11/03 or not? In-Reply-To: so, can you run UNIX on a PDP11/03 or not? (Gunther Schadow) References: <3C58DB6F.2080403@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <15448.56731.854234.777782@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 31, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Also, has anybody ever run a VAX11 in PDP mode for real? Sound > pretty wild to me to spend so much money only to not use the > virtual memory. The only use of the vax11's pdp11 compatibility mode that I've ever heard of was to run RSX-11 binaries under VMS. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jan 31 00:10:04 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: so, can you run UNIX on a PDP11/03 or not? In-Reply-To: <15448.56731.854234.777782@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: > The only use of the vax11's pdp11 compatibility mode that I've ever > heard of was to run RSX-11 binaries under VMS. I think VMS 1.0 used it because it was not really ready to ship (what a suprise). The RCS VAXgeek said that some old PDP-11 code was kludged in with a big hammer (and the compatibilty mode) to get the early VMS to work. The kludges were dropped shortly afterwards. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1653.monmouth.com Thu Jan 31 05:15:48 2002 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1653.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: VAX PDP11 compatibility mode In-Reply-To: from William Donzelli at "Jan 31, 2002 01:10:04 am" Message-ID: <200201311115.g0VBFmN01644@bg-tc-ppp1653.monmouth.com> > > The only use of the vax11's pdp11 compatibility mode that I've ever > > heard of was to run RSX-11 binaries under VMS. Another was the RTEM RT11 emulator which gave you (by default) a PDP11/40 with EIS running RT11 V5 (IIRC) emulated on the Vax. I used this at DEC for sysgens for my PDT 11/150 and wrote out the floppy on the RX01 console floppy with FLX/Exchange. > > I think VMS 1.0 used it because it was not really ready to ship (what a > suprise). The RCS VAXgeek said that some old PDP-11 code was > kludged in with a big hammer (and the compatibilty mode) to get the early > VMS to work. The kludges were dropped shortly afterwards. Well, the kludges were dropped slowly since a lot of the utilities were running in compatibility mode up through VAX/VMS 3.x. When we hit 4.x (IIRC) MCR SYE and FLX went away to be replaced with Anal/error and exchange. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org Bill -- d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Jan 31 06:53:13 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: so, can you run UNIX on a PDP11/03 or not? In-Reply-To: <3C58DB6F.2080403@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020131065313.00906870@ubanproductions.com> There are versions of Xinu (which is not Unix) which run on the '03. There are probably versions of Venix (which is like Unix) which run on the '03. We used the compatability mode to run old Unix V6 and V7 binaries under BSD Unix on the Vax. Mostly old games like adventure:-) --tom At 12:51 AM 1/31/02 -0500, you wrote: >I hear mixed messages about that. Is there someone who knows, >and not only if any, but also which version of UNIX would run? >I want to give it a shot. > >Also, has anybody ever run a VAX11 in PDP mode for real? Sound >pretty wild to me to spend so much money only to not use the >virtual memory. > >cheers, >-Gunther > >-- >Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org >Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care >Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine >tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org > > > > From allain at panix.com Thu Jan 31 09:38:35 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: so, can you run UNIX on a PDP11/03 or not? References: <3C58DB6F.2080403@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <005e01c1aa6d$59139fa0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > has anybody ever run a VAX11 in PDP mode for real? I did, but not seriously. On an 11/780 for one, you could say "MCR PDP" IIRC and do some basic operations. I think it was intended to help people do porting without having to have the other machine present. John A. From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Thu Jan 31 03:30:43 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: Nuclear Data 66? References: Message-ID: <3C590EC3.36F8CDDA@Vishay.com> > The coolest part about it is that it seems to be LSI/11 compatible. At > least it has a DEC bus (whatever the bus is called that had quad > slot connectors). QBus or Q-bus or Q-Bus ... Fits together: Qbus is the standard bus for LSI/11s. CPU types take the form of 11/x3, and options usually end with a V (e.g. DLV-11/E), though this is not true for the more "modern" ones, such as the DELQA. I doubt, however, that you'll find this option there - it's an Ethernet card! ;-) There was a variant of the VT100 that had a LSI/11 built in. Apparently, DEC weren't the only ones to make something like this. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 31 07:50:56 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: Nuclear Data 66? In-Reply-To: <3C590EC3.36F8CDDA@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <20020131135056.17367.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> --- Andreas Freiherr wrote: > > The coolest part about it is that it seems to be LSI/11 compatible. At > > least it has a DEC bus (whatever the bus is called that had quad > > slot connectors). > > QBus or Q-bus or Q-Bus ... You say "to-mah-to", I say "to-may-to". Let's call the whole thing off... > Fits together: Qbus is the standard bus for LSI/11s. CPU types take the > form of 11/x3, and options usually end with a V (e.g. DLV-11/E), though > this is not true for the more "modern" ones, such as the DELQA. I doubt, > however, that you'll find this option there - it's an Ethernet card! ;-) Network stuff was funny - you have the DEQNA, the DELQA and the DESQA, IIRC (well... _you_ just may have... _I_ only have one DEQNA). Then there's the SDI interface - KDA-50, and the later comm interfaces... But, it's true... for the older cards, there's a V in the name (DLV11J, RLV11, RLV12, MSV11, RXV21, RKV11...) > There was a variant of the VT100 that had a LSI/11 built in. Apparently, > DEC weren't the only ones to make something like this. Strangely enough... it's the VT103! Had optional dual drive TU58 mounted under monitor (got one, gotta replace the rollers with tygon tubing). I always wanted to put a UNIX-based machine in mine back in the old days. Not as important a project these days (re: other thread about Small UNIX boxes). I haven't been so lucky to run across some of the third-party DEC stuff. Most of my Qbus collection is straight DEC. One card I have that I wish I could find docs on, looks like a Systems Industries(?) CS-1 SCSI card. It does not live at any of the usual MSCP-interface addresses. Beyond that, I suspect it's a tape-only interface, so perhaps I didn't look where a TMSCP device lives. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From mhstein at canada.com Thu Jan 31 04:39:03 2002 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions Message-ID: <01C1AA1C.299AC6A0@mse-d03> First computer used: IBM 604 & assorted peripherals (If that counts). If not, then a Burroughs B260. First one owned: Original blue-trimmed 8K 2001 PET, w/ built-in tape & chiclet keys; still have it, with case/keyboard/memory upgrade. mike From alan.pearson at cramer.com Thu Jan 31 08:34:46 2002 From: alan.pearson at cramer.com (Alan Pearson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions Message-ID: > How many people on this list still have their 1st computer? > second? third? > every computer you ever used/owned? I've still got mine (ZX81) - fired it up last Sunday in fact :-) It wasn't the first machine I ever used though - a few years before I got the ZX81 one of my cousins lent my dad his MK14 for the weekend, and I spent most of one evening typing in the "lunar lander" program and playing that... that was my first experience of a computer. Since then I've had various machines - Spectrum (original 48K rubber keyboard thing, Spectrum+, Spectrum+ 128K), QL, Dragon 32, Atari ST, Memotech MTX512, Acorn Electron, BBC, BBC Master (4 of them!), C64, Vic-20 - the usual UK "home micro" collection I suppose. I'm slowly accumulating machines that I've used a lot of in the past - last week I got a VAXstation 3100 (the closest I'll come to owning an 11/785!), and I'm on the lookout for the following: CBM 4032, Sun 3/60, Sun 4/110, Sparc IPC, HP9000/725, RS/6000, Apollo DN300. I know where I can get an IPC and the HP, but the other Suns, the IBM and the Commodore so far remain elusive. There are a bunch of others that I've used, but no way would I ever have room for them (eg Burroughs B5800(?), AT&T 3B2, PDP-11/24) :-) As for all the PCs I've used or owned... nuff said. Although at college I remember our hardware lecturer getting all excited about the new thing from IBM in the corner - a "personal computer" that seemed very over-engineered and under-spec'd - 16K memory, odd "clicky" keyboard, long-peristence phosphor mono (green) monitor, no disks (cassette interface only!), ... we all thought it'd never catch on ... how wrong is it possible to be :) -- Al. From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jan 31 08:51:19 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Alan Pearson wrote: > > How many people on this list still have their 1st computer? > > second? third? > > every computer you ever used/owned? > > I've still got mine (ZX81) - fired it up last Sunday in fact :-) I still have my first computer. It's also the first computer I ever used. It's a DEC PDP-11/70. Peace... Sridhar From mhstein at canada.com Thu Jan 31 04:57:25 2002 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: 80 col Apple ][ Message-ID: <01C1AA1C.2D6E63E0@mse-d03> Any ideas from you Apple experts how I tell CP/M software to use an 80 column card? Display is 40 col from motherboard, all I get from 80 col card is a blinking cursor. No switches or id on 80 col card; it has 3 EPROM sockets, but only ROM2 & ROM3 are present. No reason why ROM1 should have been removed, so I'm hoping it was an option. Both video outputs and the built-in RF out all use RCA connectors, BTW :) And in reply to the question about SO239 (AKA UHF or 83 Series) connectors for video, the commercial (as opposed to homebrew) video out adapter on my PET uses one; other than that, in my experience the mass-produced systems used either RCA or proprietary connectors, and S100 & similar multi-card chassis used BNCs when they had internal video. mike From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 31 09:38:26 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: Video provisions on S-100 frames (was Re: 80 col Apple ][) References: <01C1AA1C.2D6E63E0@mse-d03> Message-ID: <001901c1aa6e$28eb0560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'd be really interested in knowing specifics about this, if you have them. I've got several S-100 boxes, and not a one has any accomodation for video signal from an internal source. I did, in the rar distant past, own a couple of systems, at least one of which was from Vector Graphics, that used an external moitor+keyboard combination resembling a terminal, which it wasn't, but most of the S-100 arrangements I've got, including a combination from SD Systems, which uses a video display/keyboard port board not only has no cable that came with it, but simply provides pads to which a video cable was to be soldered. Though I've got this hardware, I've never tried it out, as I've always been satisfied with a serial terminal. Additionally, I've actually never seen a 3rd-party S-100 box that made any provision for video signal to an external monitor at all. The ones I have are all Integrand boxes, so that's not a good example, being from only one maker, and the CompuPro boxes I've junked had no provision for video connectors either. I'd be interested in knowing about ----- Original Message ----- From: "M H Stein" To: "'ClassicComputers'" Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 3:57 AM Subject: 80 col Apple ][ > Any ideas from you Apple experts how I tell CP/M software > to use an 80 column card? Display is 40 col from motherboard, > all I get from 80 col card is a blinking cursor. > > No switches or id on 80 col card; it has 3 EPROM sockets, > but only ROM2 & ROM3 are present. No reason why ROM1 should > have been removed, so I'm hoping it was an option. > > Both video outputs and the built-in RF out all use RCA > connectors, BTW :) > > And in reply to the question about SO239 (AKA UHF or 83 Series) > connectors for video, the commercial (as opposed to homebrew) > video out adapter on my PET uses one; other than that, in my > experience the mass-produced systems used either RCA or > proprietary connectors, and S100 & similar multi-card chassis > used BNCs when they had internal video. > > mike > > From classiccmp at knm.yi.org Thu Jan 31 06:09:15 2002 From: classiccmp at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: Ill MV3100 Message-ID: Hi, I fished out my MV3100 to install openVMS on it (after someone gave me another hard disk), so I boot it up, and get the following... KA41-D V1.0 F_..E...D...C...B KA41-D V1.0 F_..E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...5...4_..3_..2_..1... ? C 0080 0000.4001 ? B 0010 0010.0081 ?21 CORRPTN 83 BOOT SYS So I frowned at it, swapped the netbsd for a CD drive, unplugged RX23, swapped the RZ23 for an IBM scsi hard disk (DPES-31080), and fired up the openvms install - it rebooted halfway through the install process - I lost the message it spewed out, so I tried again - same thing in a different point. Tried again - success. BUT, if I have the IBM drive and CD drive in, I get F_..E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7?..6...5...4_..3_..2_..1... ? C 0080 0000.4001 ? B 0010 0010.0081 ?? 7 80A0 1000.61D0 ? 6 80A1 0000.4001 ?06 HLT INST PC = 00000200 ?21 CORRPTN So as you can imagine, I'm a little non-plussed :&/ I'm sure it *was* working fine 6 months ago, and it's been quite happy running netbsd, or the (slightly broken) VMS 5.4 install on the RZ23. Only thing I can think of is memory - any other ideas? I've got 16M in here. -- Matt --- Web Page: http://knm.org.uk/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ From classiccmp at knm.yi.org Thu Jan 31 06:31:48 2002 From: classiccmp at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: Update: Ill MV3100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, I've been playing... It turns out the box seems much happier if the only devices on SCSI-A are the RX23 and the RZ23 - no CORRPTN messages so far with that setup. But that means I can't fit both the 1G VMS drive and the 1G NetBSD drive in the case :&/ Still getting messages about B and C - one's ToY IIRC, can't remember what the other is... Any ideas? -- Matt --- Web Page: http://knm.org.uk/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 31 06:57:20 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: Update: Ill MV3100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Matt London wrote: > Still getting messages about B and C - one's ToY IIRC, can't remember what > the other is... I seem to recall that the C? error can happen with an "odd" terminal attached. My VS3100 throws that when I boot to the 3151 terminal. B is RAM, I'm pretty sure. Doc From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1653.monmouth.com Thu Jan 31 07:23:56 2002 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1653.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: Update: Ill MV3100 In-Reply-To: from Matt London at "Jan 31, 2002 12:31:48 pm" Message-ID: <200201311323.g0VDNu902027@bg-tc-ppp1653.monmouth.com> > Hi, > I've been playing... > > It turns out the box seems much happier if the only devices on SCSI-A > are the RX23 and the RZ23 - no CORRPTN messages so far with that setup. > But that means I can't fit both the 1G VMS drive and the 1G NetBSD drive > in the case :&/ > > Still getting messages about B and C - one's ToY IIRC, can't remember what > the other is... > > Any ideas? > > -- Matt > > --- > Web Page: > http://knm.org.uk/ > http://pkl.net/~matt/ Still sounds like a termination problem. I've got 2 drives and a floppy in my VaxStation 3100 with no problems. Bill -- d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Jan 31 07:24:06 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: Update: Ill MV3100 In-Reply-To: ; from classiccmp@knm.yi.org on Thu, Jan 31, 2002 at 12:31:48PM +0000 References: Message-ID: <20020131142406.A27680@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, Jan 31, 2002 at 12:31:48PM +0000, Matt London wrote: > Still getting messages about B and C - one's ToY IIRC, can't remember what > the other is... http://www.bsdfans.de/selftest.php C DZ Serial line controller B MEM Memory -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From vaxman at earthlink.net Thu Jan 31 08:59:50 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: Anti-Spam Questions? (Was: A Special Announcement From Dish Network and the Armor SecurityCorporation) In-Reply-To: <3C58BEB8.F70B571C@idirect.com> Message-ID: When I was with Qwest.net, I received very little spam, but I also gave my email address to very few companies, and NEVER posted to Usenet with it (even spam-ified)... When I switched to Earthlink, my mailbox was full of spam before I even got the DSL line connected. I turned on their 'Spaminator' filter, and haven't received any since. YMMV. Since most of these people are sending email out to a CDROM full of addresses, playing dead doesn't help. I occasionally get junk mail at work that lists a few other addresses, and one had two of MY old addresses from 10 years ago. Clint On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Jerome Fine wrote: > >Andreas Freiherr wrote: > > > Maybe slightly OT, but... > > Right! The best way to fight spam is not to react at all: even spammers > > will let dead people alone. > > However, there's one thing that is even better than playing "dead man": > > "teergrubing" (see > > http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/teergrube.html for the > > word, and if that sounds interesting, the FAQ is > > http://www.iks-jena.de/mitarb/lutz/usenet/teergrube.en.html) > > I love the idea! > > Andreas > > Jerome Fine replies: > > I also find that spam is annoying and I was wondering if there is anything > an individual can do except to change to a different e-mail address? In that > respect, can anyone suggest how long an e-mail address needs to be unavailable > before the spam will stop for that address? > > I realize that changing my e-mail address constantly will be very inconvenient. > Is there any other way to completely stop spam other than by not giving > out my e-mail address? Has anyone tried changing their e-mail address > to stop spam and about how long does this seem to work? > > I am almost certain to be changing to a different ISP in the next few months, > so my e-mail address will need to change in any case. I was thinking of adding > Jan, Feb, etc. for each month in turn. Can anyone suggest if once a month is > more frequent than needed? JFM, AMJ, JAS, OND would do if every three > months is sufficient. I could instead use an extra 3 characters at random > and just change them when the spam volume becomes too high, but that might > prevent someone from sending me an e-mail more than a few weeks later. > > Or might three letters for the month be OK as a public e-mail address that only > needs to be used when someone attempts to contact me after a random three > character "addendum" to the address has been cancelled, but would never be > used in normal correspondence? If that is so, any spam to that e-mail address > would obviously be unsolicited at the least and difficult to "mine" at best. > > Perhaps if all of us made some suggestions, the above might be completely > unsatisfactory, but some sort of anti-spam mechanism could be developed > that was both simple and effective? I think this might be a very useful thread. > > In addition, one thing that also might help that I have found - before I run through > my e-mails, I try to remember to turn OFF my internet connection. Since I am > on a dial-up modem, this is normal for me in any case. When I do so, I notice > that more than half the spam I receive attempt to connect to a "home" site to > download additional bytes. Can anyone tell me if that could provide the site > with my e-mail address (not to mention other stuff) for my system? By blocking > the internet connection, I presume that presents any feedback. That has not > stopped the spam, however. > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > > From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 31 02:42:48 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > Tiny little calculator???? It's the biggest modern calculator I've ever > > seen!! Any bigger and it would be a laptop! > > Any smaller and the QWERTY keyboard wouldn't fit. It's the separate numeric keypad, function keys (F1-F8) and the cursor control pad that makes it so big :) I got mine when it first came out when I started going back to school a few years back. I was the envy of the class ;) I think I'll fire mine up for old times sake and see about putting Unix on it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jss at subatomix.com Thu Jan 31 12:05:06 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020131120354.U26852-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > > My smallest UNIX box right now is my TI-92 calculator. > > > > Explain explain explain! > > Well, it's a tiny little calculator based on a 10 MHz 68000 and 188KB of > RAM, and 320 KB Flash ROM. It has a QWERTY keyboard and a 240X180 (?) > screen. Check out http://www.ticalc.org/ and look under TI-92+. Man, I haven't been to that site since high school, when I downloaded some games for my 85. I have a 92+ and will check this out! -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Jan 31 12:28:15 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: Computer Museum of America on Tuesday night's PBS NOVA (fwd) In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Jan 31, 02 08:59:17 am Message-ID: <200201311828.NAA04197@wordstock.com> And thusly Vintage Computer Festival spake: > > > Last April, a film crew from Boston came to Computer Museum of America at > Coleman College to film the staff operating several machines in the Museum > collection. See the results this coming TUESDAY night on PBS NOVA at 8pm. > And there *used* to be a Computer Museum in Boston. I visited it when I first came to Boston. It was only ..._okay_... though. Anyways, speaking of TV shows about classic computers, there was one on the History channel last Friday entitled "Video Games: Behind the Fun". But when I found out that it was on, it was already done.. :-( I am watching to see when it comes on again. Cheers, Bryan From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Jan 31 09:49:24 2002 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: Nuclear Data 66? References: <20020131135056.17367.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C596784.977FE84E@idirect.com> >Ethan Dicks wrote: > >--- Andreas Freiherr wrote: > > There was a variant of the VT100 that had a LSI/11 built in. Apparently, > > DEC weren't the only ones to make something like this. > Strangely enough... it's the VT103! Had optional dual drive TU58 mounted > under monitor (got one, gotta replace the rollers with tygon tubing). Jerome Fine replies: It is also possible to replace the TU-58 with a 5 1/4" hard drive. At one point I had a DEC VT103 re-wired to be a 22 bit backplane so that up to the full 4 MBytes of memory could be used. I also used a Sigma MFM controller (dual card with boot ROMs). The power was just barely sufficient to support an ST412 (actually used an RD51) or a Micropolis 1325 (actually used an RD53). But probably not for too long. For a short demo of 15 minutes, the hard disk was run from internal (to the VT103) power. But for longer periods, the switch on the front (added of course) allowed the power to be supplied from an external PC power supply which was also used for the second MFM drive with the extra cables that could be exposed from inside the PDP-11 section. At the very end - just for a test, I put in 5 cards - M8192-AC, DLV11-J, 4 MBytes of Memory (Christlen), Sigma RQD11-EC Quad ESDI disk controller and a DHV11. There was, of course, insufficient power to run the ESDI hard drives, so they were just on the desk using a PC power supply and each also had its own fan. Now I also use a PC power supply to run my hard drives when I run RT-11 and boot from a real DEC TU-58, but that is another story. > I haven't been so lucky to run across some of the third-party DEC stuff. > Most of my Qbus collection is straight DEC. One card I have that I wish > I could find docs on, looks like a Systems Industries(?) CS-1 SCSI card. > It does not live at any of the usual MSCP-interface addresses. Beyond > that, I suspect it's a tape-only interface, so perhaps I didn't look > where a TMSCP device lives. About the best (and most expensive) host adapter for the Qbus is the SCSI CQD-220A/TM from CMD. It is a dual board which has boot ROMs and supports both disk drives (hard, optical and Zip) and tape drives. It is no longer made - which is perhaps why the price now stays high. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Thu Jan 31 11:35:53 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: Nuclear Data 66? References: <20020131135056.17367.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C598079.CFC42BAD@Vishay.com> > Strangely enough... it's the VT103! Had optional dual drive TU58 mounted > under monitor (got one, gotta replace the rollers with tygon tubing). I think I also saw one a _couple_ of years ago that had dual floppy drives on top of the VT1xx box. Is it possible that there was something like a VT180? Or was it the "Robin"? - Too long ago. "Dave ... my mind is going ... I can feel it ..." I still have to connect a TU58 to my home-grown Motorola 6809 and put a little RT-11 file system knowledge into it's boot EPROM. That would allow me to use MACRO-11 as a development platform... - Different project... > I haven't been so lucky to run across some of the third-party DEC stuff. > Most of my Qbus collection is straight DEC. One card I have that I wish > I could find docs on, looks like a Systems Industries(?) CS-1 SCSI card. > It does not live at any of the usual MSCP-interface addresses. Beyond > that, I suspect it's a tape-only interface, so perhaps I didn't look > where a TMSCP device lives. If it's a tape interface, then, yes, it will have a different CSR address. Most of my collection - if you allow me to use this word in this place - is also straight DEC, even my microfiche viewer served a DEC technician in it's (the viewers ;-) former life. So I cannot be of much help with this board, sorry! -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Jan 31 10:03:44 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: spam/avoidance of Message-ID: Also, how does one enforce a no-call list internationally? A lot of the spam I get on Hotmail comes from non-US sources. BTW, I started getting spam on Hotmail _before_ I had sent out any email -- just signed up for it and the spam started coming the next day. And their filtering works for only 80%-90% of the spam, as about 10% gets delivered to my inbox. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Robert Schaefer [mailto:rschaefe@gcfn.org] Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 6:09 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: spam/avoidance of ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Hildebrand" To: Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 05:07 AM Subject: Re: spam/avoidance of > > I remember when Dalnet blacklisted AOL users for several months. Really > put the dampers on my IRC activities, as one of my better friends was an > AOL subscriber. > > What really is needed is stronger rules on unsolicited e-mails. Maybe > something like a no-send list, like we have here in Missouri for > telemarketers. Ohhh, not such a good idea. A no-call list works with telemarketers because ma bell _knows_ who's making the calls, and the 3733+3 phreaks who have the skill to skip that little annoyance aren't the same as the ones who spam. Spam mostly comes from computers with open relays-- the phone equivalent would be telemarketers calling from phones people left sitting in the windowsill or on the front porch when they're outta town. Spammers would see the no-call list as the Holy Grail of verified email lists. > > Gary Hildebrand Bob From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Jan 31 10:39:44 2002 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: spam/avoidance of References: Message-ID: <3C597350.786D253E@idirect.com> >Feldman, Robert wrote: > Also, how does one enforce a no-call list internationally? A lot of the spam > I get on Hotmail comes from non-US sources. BTW, I started getting spam on > Hotmail _before_ I had sent out any email -- just signed up for it and the > spam started coming the next day. And their filtering works for only 80%-90% > of the spam, as about 10% gets delivered to my inbox. > Bob Jerome Fine replies: I sounds as if the spam is sent to a list of reasonable e-mail addresses picked by a computer program without any actual verification - unless Hotmail "sells" them - but how would the new list be circulated so quickly? It seems as if a permanent e-mail address will not be possible until the spam problem is handled by the users themselves. I just suggested adding 4 random characters (36 ** 4 = 1,679,616) to my actual e-mail name (before the @) and changing them as needed - BUT with a fallback of replacing the 4 random characters with the current year. Has anyone ever tried this? Obviously, if it became a standard practice, it would not work, but there must be many such replacement methods. And in the mean time, e-mail addresses would start to change so often than perhaps the ISPs would finally find so much spam mail was being rejected that they would actually attempt to stop unsolicited traffic. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 31 12:19:50 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: spam/avoidance of References: <3C597350.786D253E@idirect.com> Message-ID: <002201c1aa84$ace55440$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> What would be interesting to pursue in the context of disouraging SPAM is the reorganization of the email scheme such that a single email could only be sent to a single destination without substantial cost to the sender. Moreover, it should be done in a way that absolutely ensures that the original sender email address is contained in the email. That alone would solve a number of problems. Yes, this would mean that mailing lists would become more difficult to handle, but that is not insurmountable. Email needs a mechanism that allows email to be as low-cost as possible for single-destination emails while costing significantly more, e.g. 10^(N^N!) for n-destination emails, and charged to the sender, not to some external route engine that ends up routing a single message to a bunch of destinations based simply on a list of recipients included in the original. If one destination cost the sender a penny, two destinations cost the sender a buck, and three cost him a kilobuck, he'd think twice about using the net for junk mail. I've got no problem with the use of the www for commercial purposes, but since people in other parts of the world, e.g. Europe, pay for hookup time and download of each email costs something in those terms, it's not right to ask people to pay for unsolicited junk mail. Further, the bandwidth that the stuff consumes only brings nearer the time when we here in the U.S. will end up paying for our internet usage by the bit as do many others throughout the world. It's incumbent on us, therefore, to do SOMETHING about this. Right now, it's still a no-cost nuissance to us here in the U.S. but to those in Europe who pay for the bandwidth they use, and to the system as a whole, it's already a major cost. I simply discard the 10% or so of my email that's junk. Likewise, I simply discard the junk mail I get from the USPS. If it doesn't have a return address and a postmark, it goes in the trash. True, I've had some checks, etc, go in the trash, and had to pursue them through other channels, but unpostmarked items look like junk, and 80% of my snail-mail is junk, so they go in the trash. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerome Fine" To: Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 9:39 AM Subject: Re: spam/avoidance of > >Feldman, Robert wrote: > > > Also, how does one enforce a no-call list internationally? A lot of the spam > > I get on Hotmail comes from non-US sources. BTW, I started getting spam on > > Hotmail _before_ I had sent out any email -- just signed up for it and the > > spam started coming the next day. And their filtering works for only 80%-90% > > of the spam, as about 10% gets delivered to my inbox. > > Bob > > Jerome Fine replies: > > I sounds as if the spam is sent to a list of reasonable e-mail addresses picked > by a computer program without any actual verification - unless Hotmail "sells" > them - but how would the new list be circulated so quickly? > > It seems as if a permanent e-mail address will not be possible until the spam > problem is handled by the users themselves. > > I just suggested adding 4 random characters (36 ** 4 = 1,679,616) to my > actual e-mail name (before the @) and changing them as needed - BUT > with a fallback of replacing the 4 random characters with the current year. > Has anyone ever tried this? Obviously, if it became a standard practice, > it would not work, but there must be many such replacement methods. > And in the mean time, e-mail addresses would start to change so often > than perhaps the ISPs would finally find so much spam mail was being > rejected that they would actually attempt to stop unsolicited traffic. > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > > From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Jan 31 10:56:25 2002 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: spam/avoidance of References: Message-ID: <3C597739.30764996@idirect.com> >Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > That's fine for my friends. I can contact you. > But what about my CUSTOMERS? > Somebody who I've never met wants to buy. But my ISP that hosts my domain > bounces his mail. > Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com > XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com > PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 > Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 > NOTE: My ISP is having difficulties. If you have problems reaching me at > this e-mail address, you can leave a message at: > fcisin@merritt.edu Jerome Fine replies: I just suggested adding 4 random characters (36 ** 4 = 1,679,616) to my e-mail address. In your case could be an example. When too much spam starts to find your way, then change. A fall back (either permanent or just when the current one is deactivated) is to replace the 4 characters in front of @ with the current 4 digit year. So my reply e-mail address could be with a fall back of up until the end of last month. This year would be the next value. This would not work if everyone used the same replacement characters, but that could be any simple description without actually naming it so the letters could be picked out by a search program. The benefit of the 4 digit year is that it changes automatically every twelve months. Is that sufficient? And if only a few thousand individuals use it right now, it should be very effective just for us if we don't advertise it. I am probably going to change ISP shortly and I will need a new e-mail address in any case. So I would like to be more prepared? Any one else also have a suggestion? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jan 31 10:11:30 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: Scanning Microfiche (was: VT131 needs keyboard help) In-Reply-To: <3C593E00.D107B4E4@Vishay.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > Even if you were using a true 1200dpi device, you would end up with > less than 30dpi after blowing up the image 1:42 back to it's original > size. Sure, that's not what we want. Right. The optics of the original fiche photographing machine reduce stuff way too small to scan directly. > But maybe there are devices or even companies specialized on scanning > microfiche? - How would you load this information into an electronic > archive on MO disks, for example? > > Some years ago, a friend of mine managed to get a couple of frames > printed off these fiches, but the results weren't too good: poor > contrast was the main problem. If you'd scan these prints, the results > would certainly be unreadable. I've researched it, but I found no affordable solution other than buying a fiche printer. These are not small units, but still are of a manageable size. They average about 30-40" deep, 16-24" high, and 18-24" wide. The better quality ones (not the cheap mimeograph type you'll see in some public libraries) use a printing system similar much like that of a laser printer or good xerox machine. The trick to getting good output from anything optical is keeping it *clean* and getting the image focused properly. The average used price on a good quality unit can range from anywhere from $500-7000. I'm looking for a production quality one more in the $1000-2000 range, but I can't afford it right now. -Toth From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Jan 31 10:18:04 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: getting OT: tar, NeXT, and Mac OS X [was: RE: PKZIP problem] Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467594@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > ---------- > From: Jeff Hellige > > > .pkg is probably specific to NeXT, as I haven't heard of it under > Unix. > > As the name might suggest, it is a 'package' containing the > program and all it's associated files, likely to include installation > scripts and anything else needed. That then generally creates an > .app file, which is actually a directory wich includes the files but > is seen by the NeXT as being a single executable file. > ... And now Mac OS X as well ( But Mac OS's >= 9 would see it as a folder only). Then again, Stevie did create NeXT, and now he's got Apple under his thumb... > > -spc (And on every Unix system I've used I've found tar ... ) > > Drop to the CLI on a NeXT and you'll find tar there as well. > -- > You know, I would like to eventually get myself a NeXT system, to see where (parts of) OS X came from. Before, I thought Windoze98 was better than MacOS (not by much, though). Now that I'm using Mac OS X as my workstation, I'm liking it much better. Sorry, I'll try to keep it On Topic. If anyone in the New Haven CT area does have a NeXT system available, let me know. BTW, I'm kinda poor right now... :-/ --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 90581 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Jan 31 10:20:58 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:27 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467595@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > ---------- > From: Tothwolf > > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > > > Yesterday evening, I dug out the microfiches, and, indeed, there is a > > "VT100 Technical Manual", part no. EP-VT100-TM-001, dated "Sep 1980". > > If anything out of these two fiches can help you, we'll need to find a > > way of scanning them. Reduction ratio is 42:1. > > It's not possible to scan fiche directly (or so I've been told/shown). You > first have to use a fiche printer (not cheap), then scan the paper copy. I > may end up buying a fiche printer later this year if things work out. I > had planned to buy one by mid this year, but looks like I won't be able > to. > > -Toth > How about using something like a (photograph) slide scanner type setup? I would say just try it. Maybe you would have to do a quick tweak in PhotoShop, but that would probably be easier than printing first. Unless, of course, you (or someone else) want the paper copy too. --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 90581 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From jhfine at postoffice.idirect.com Thu Jan 31 10:23:50 2002 From: jhfine at postoffice.idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: Anti-Spam Questions? (Was: A Special Announcement ...) References: Message-ID: <3C596F96.4D239D50@idirect.com> >Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > When I was with Qwest.net, I received very little spam, but I also gave > my email address to very few companies, and NEVER posted to Usenet with > it (even spam-ified)... Jerome Fine replies: Well, Usenet is where I would like to be able to have individuals respond from. Can anyone suggest how to set up an e-mail address that can be easily modified with human instructions of a few words, but is not able to be mined by a spam search program? I could probably add 4 extra random letters to my name (in front of the @) and have them replaced by the 4 digits for the year (2002) and change that every year as required. The fall back to the year would only be used when the 4 random character version is deactivated due to too much spam. Has anyone ever tried this method? Or the 4 extra random characters could always be fake? > When I switched to Earthlink, my mailbox was full of spam before I even > got the DSL line connected. I turned on their 'Spaminator' filter, and > haven't received any since. YMMV. Does that mean that Earthlink was "selling" your e-mail address? > Since most of these people are sending email out to a CDROM full of > addresses, playing dead doesn't help. I occasionally get junk mail at > work that lists a few other addresses, and one had two of MY old > addresses from 10 years ago. What will happen when junk e-mail to dead addresses accounts for 99% of all e-mail traffic? Is there any way that the source for every e-mail could be made a part of the internet protocol? That would be required as the first step in stopping unsolicited e-mail messages. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 31 11:06:09 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: Anti-Spam Questions? (Was: A Special Announcement ...) References: <3C596F96.4D239D50@idirect.com> Message-ID: <001401c1aa79$946694c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> What I do is use a HOTMAIL address as the address advertised for replies on the usenet. The result is that HOTMAIL gets my usenet replies, which aren't that many, and, since HOTMAIL already has bulk-mail filtering in place, it finds bulk mailings and routes them to a "junk-mail" mailbox, which I can, if I wish, peruse when I have time, or, it automatically ages and then dumps them after two weeks. It's not perfect, but it's pretty useful. Moreover, you can see what sorts of things fall through their spam filters and subsequently "block" them from your primary mailbox. That way, you eventually get rid of some of them. Unfortunately, the email tools provided by HOTMAIL are rather lame, but it's that or have the extra distraction on my other email accounts. Of course, one big problem with spam filtering is that the spammers only use each email address once. The consequence is that blocking them does absolutely no good. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerome Fine" To: Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: Re: Anti-Spam Questions? (Was: A Special Announcement ...) > >Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > > When I was with Qwest.net, I received very little spam, but I also gave > > my email address to very few companies, and NEVER posted to Usenet with > > it (even spam-ified)... > > Jerome Fine replies: > > Well, Usenet is where I would like to be able to have individuals respond from. > Can anyone suggest how to set up an e-mail address that can be easily > modified with human instructions of a few words, but is not able to be > mined by a spam search program? I could probably add 4 extra random > letters to my name (in front of the @) and have them replaced by the 4 digits > for the year (2002) and change that every year as required. The fall back > to the year would only be used when the 4 random character version is > deactivated due to too much spam. Has anyone ever tried this method? > > Or the 4 extra random characters could always be fake? > > > When I switched to Earthlink, my mailbox was full of spam before I even > > got the DSL line connected. I turned on their 'Spaminator' filter, and > > haven't received any since. YMMV. > > Does that mean that Earthlink was "selling" your e-mail address? > > > Since most of these people are sending email out to a CDROM full of > > addresses, playing dead doesn't help. I occasionally get junk mail at > > work that lists a few other addresses, and one had two of MY old > > addresses from 10 years ago. > > What will happen when junk e-mail to dead addresses accounts for > 99% of all e-mail traffic? Is there any way that the source for every > e-mail could be made a part of the internet protocol? That would be > required as the first step in stopping unsolicited e-mail messages. > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > > From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Jan 31 10:27:52 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: 80 col Apple ][ In-Reply-To: M H Stein's message of "Thu, 31 Jan 2002 05:57:25 -0500" References: <01C1AA1C.2D6E63E0@mse-d03> Message-ID: <200201311627.g0VGRqR82062@daemonweed.reanimators.org> M H Stein wrote: > Any ideas from you Apple experts how I tell CP/M software > to use an 80 column card? Display is 40 col from motherboard, > all I get from 80 col card is a blinking cursor. If you're using a ][ or ][+, put the card in slot 3. There was a convention for what cards went in which slots: #1: printer interface #2: communications (modem/serial) interface #3: display interface Pascal and CP/M would probe the C[123]00H ROM spaces for these slots to determine if there was a capable card in the slot, and if so it would use the card for that function. The neat thing about this was that it meant you could stick either a parallel or serial interface in #1 depending on what kind of printer you had, or you could stick either a serial or 80-column card in #3 -- you would use the serial card if you wanted to use Pascal or CP/M with an external 80-column terminal. > No switches or id on 80 col card; it has 3 EPROM sockets, > but only ROM2 & ROM3 are present. No reason why ROM1 should > have been removed, so I'm hoping it was an option. Could be (IIRC Videx cards supported an optional character set ROM), or it could be the ROM that would appear at C300H with the card in slot 3. If it's the latter, CP/M won't see the card. -Frank McConnell From csmith at amdocs.com Thu Jan 31 10:37:13 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: IRIS 4D wire is Not Actually White Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1A1A3845@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> I goofed. The earth wire in the 4D is, indeed, green. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jan 31 11:45:57 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: S/36Doc (skating on thin ice) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I won't speak for other systems, but IBM publishes nothing for the hardware > or original software on System/36 or System/38. The only reference they > make to it anymore is the emulated environment still available under > OS/400. Well, the S/38 docs are probably in the same category as the AS/400 docs - ultra-secret in the IBM world. I would not even try to get S/38 docs, for fear that the answer would be a quick, blanket "NO" from IBM. I think there are some S/36 hardware docs loose. Then again, it is not a architecture with much to hide. > I have a few contacts at IBM, and I've been in contact with their > publications people. I haven't broached the subject yet, but I believe IBM > like other vendors embraces it's history and will at least tacitly support > hobbyists. They do, but in a sort of "private" way. If you walk the halls of the various IBM buildings, you would probably be AMAZED by what they have on display. They also had an excellent exhibit at the big museum in Chicago about ten years ago (650, a RAMAC, S/360, a huge pile of greenbar with some old OS on it, S/370, and all sorts of great stuff). I think IBM San Jose also has interesting bits floating around - mostly disks, of course. > I'm guessing > the real reason why these things aren't available is IBM didn't wish to > invest the time in maintaining them. They also wanted to encourage > migration. But hobbyist are a new and accomodating market. And I have a > certain amount of faith we'll see encouragement from them. Oh yes, and even their embracing Linux could help the cause. Im my opinion, however, we should move slowly - starting with machines that are in the 30+ year old category. It would be harder for IBm to make that blanket "NO" statement. > First things first though. I actually have to get a hold of the document > set. Irregardless of web availability, I'm sure an email in the right (my) > direction will yeild results, when there are results to yield :->~ nudge > nudge, wink wink, knowwhaddamean?! > > Colin Eby > Senior Consultant > CSC Consulting > > From aek at spies.com Thu Jan 31 12:47:23 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: S/36Doc (skating on thin ice) Message-ID: <200201311847.KAA12786@spies.com> >While the offer to scan them was certainly noble, I really wouildn't expect >anyone to actually do it. We're talking about perhaps 10,000 pages of >documents here! Assuming they're loose sheets, it can be done in a few days. I scanned 15000 pages of HP 2100 docs last week in less than a week working a few hours per day. Scan cleanup and pdf conversion is the bottleneck right now. From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jan 31 11:51:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: AN/UYKs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Programming Reference Manual for the AN/UYK-1 Computer System (Oct 1 1961) > A Programmer's Guide to the AN/UYK-1 (TRW-130) Digital Computer (Mar 1962) > An Introduction to the TRW-130 (AN/UYK-1) Data Processing System (Oct 1962) > The TRW-130 AN/UYK-1 Data Processing System (sales data sheet) > AN/UYK-1: A "Stored Logic" Multiple Purpose Digital Computer (Apr 21 1961) > AN/UYK-1: A Multiple Purpose Digital Computer (brochure) > AN/UYK-1 Logand Summary Chart > AN/UYK-1 Computer Description M250-1U16 Nice, but unfortunately, not what we need. AN/UYK-19 and AN/UYK-64 (the machines of interest) are completely different. > Same Ramo as in TRW? Probably - there was a lot of sleeping around in the 1950s and 60s defense industries. > I am currently borrowing these from someone but am working on a deal to > purchase them from him. When I do I can make them available for scanning. Cool. And of course, as long as it is unclassified and not just a reprinted vendor manual, its public domain! William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jss at subatomix.com Thu Jan 31 12:02:09 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: <01C1AA1C.299AC6A0@mse-d03> Message-ID: <20020131112239.P26852-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> First computer used: either an Apple IIc or IIe located in the elementary school's 'computer lab', or a TRS-80 my father (a math teacher) borrowed from the high school. I was the only one in the school who ever beat the History Mystery Mansion (or some similar name) game on the Apples. First computer owned: an 8086 PC clone mutt built by some guy who ran a computer store in a nearby town. It had an IBM 5.25" full-height 10MB hard drive, 512K RAM, CGA graphics, a color monitor, and a dot-matrix printer. It came with DOS 3.3. Later, it was upgraded with a 286 motherboard, more memory, a sound card, a 1200 baud modem, and a handheld scanner. I sold it long ago to a lady in another nearby town. First language learned: TRS-80 BASIC Level II First compiler used: Microsoft QuickC 2.5 First program used by people: two very similar programs EnrollDB and LEADB, that I wrote for the local school district in the 7th grade. They were first written in MS-DOS QBASIC (ewww!) and then re-written in C later that year. EnrollDB was an enrollment database and report generator, and LEADB was the same thing, but with special features for the special education department. LEADB had to generate files in a certain format for submission to the DoE. Both of these were no doubt atrocious programs, but for a completely self-taught 7th grader, they were masterpieces. Having no idea of the plethora of algorithms out there, I developed from scratch the bubble sort, and was very proud of it. I used it to sort the database in each program, and each swap was done by moving records around in the database file. Alphabetizing a list of 400 students took about an hour! I hope those programs aren't still in use... First experience with the Internet: see below. First contact with UNIX: using FTP over e-mail from a BBS with a newly acquired Internet email gateway. I lived outside of the OKC LATA, and that particular BBS was the only one I had access to, as it had a toll-free number. I now brag to my friends that I'm cool because I was 'on the net' before the existence of the WWW. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Jan 31 12:34:53 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: <20020131112239.P26852-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at Jan 31, 02 12:02:09 pm Message-ID: <200201311834.NAA05718@wordstock.com> And thusly Jeffrey S. Sharp spake: > > printer. It came with DOS 3.3. Later, it was upgraded with a 286 > motherboard, more memory, a sound card, a 1200 baud modem, and a handheld Did you ever play Castle Wolfenstein on the 286? ;) Cheers, Bryan From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Thu Jan 31 12:08:22 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: so, can you run UNIX on a PDP11/03 or not? References: <3C58DB6F.2080403@aurora.regenstrief.org> <005e01c1aa6d$59139fa0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3C598816.3EE5974E@Vishay.com> You could add "/CLI=MCR" to your login name, or even have your account set to MCR as the default command language interpreter. With that, you were even supposed to be able to do a complete SYSGEN for RSX-11. This was my first attempt at SYSGEN, but I only found out I know so little about SYSGEN that I better go for the real machine in order to simplify things. BTW, OpenVMS on today's Alphas doesn't come with an MCR.EXE (or even MCR.TSK ;-) anymore, but you can (in DCL) still say MCR , and this will run SYS$SYSTEM:.EXE, passing remaining command line arguments to the program. Try, for example, MCR AUTHORIZE SHOW/BRIEF SYSTEM (requires SYSPRV) or MCR NCP SHOW KNOWN LINES. Andreas John Allain wrote: > > > has anybody ever run a VAX11 in PDP mode for real? > > I did, but not seriously. > On an 11/780 for one, you could say "MCR PDP" IIRC > and do some basic operations. I think it was intended > to help people do porting without having to have the > other machine present. > > John A. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From sieler at allegro.com Thu Jan 31 12:10:58 2002 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: HP 9000 800/G40 battery?/cable In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1A1A382D@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <3C591832.12767.1C96FE86@localhost> > > The charging light came on when I first plugged the machine > in. It went off a while later. So it seems to think the > battery is charged. > The backup battery, part number 1420-0507, was orderable from HP a year or two ago, and reasonably cheap ($40?). I don't have much experience with battery backup on the 867 (aka G40), but the equivalent HP 3000/9x7 systems would last up to 15 minutes on the battery, and when AC power was restored, the OS would come back to life and report "power failure", but everything was still alive. Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jan 31 12:58:07 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: AN/UYKs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Cool. And of course, as long as it is unclassified and not just a >reprinted vendor manual, its public domain! The manuals that would be interesting to get ahold of are the unclassified Data Systems Techicians training manuals. They covered maintenance of a lot of these systems, even covering Core Memory and other fun stuff. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Jan 31 13:56:44 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: spam/avoidance of References: <3C597350.786D253E@idirect.com> <002201c1aa84$ace55440$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3C59A17C.D4012044@ccp.com> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > What would be interesting to pursue in the context of disouraging SPAM is the > reorganization of the email scheme such that a single email could only be sent > to a single destination without substantial cost to the sender. Moreover, it > should be done in a way that absolutely ensures that the original sender email > address is contained in the email. That alone would solve a number of > problems. > <<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>> There is a substantiated rumor out there that our legislators have considered a "per e-mail" charge, to support the Post Office (not the place to put the money). Maybe ISP's could be allowed to charge for excessive e-mail useage, and keep the profits . . . Like the Republicrats say, let the market decide the price. Would spammers pay 30 or 50 cents per e-mail? Some would, some definitely wouldn't. Gary Hildebrand From quapla at xs4all.nl Thu Jan 31 13:13:24 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: Computer Museum of America on Tuesday night's PBS NOVA (fwd) References: Message-ID: <3C599754.3E649553@xs4all.nl> Will there be anybody able to tape it and then convert it to an AVI file or mpg for download? Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > FYI... > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:46:19 -0800 > From: David Weil > Subject: Computer Museum of America on Tuesday night's PBS NOVA > > Last April, a film crew from Boston came to Computer Museum of America at > Coleman College to film the staff operating several machines in the Museum > collection. See the results this coming TUESDAY night on PBS NOVA at 8pm. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Kilometerheffing : De overheid '97 TL1000S | weet waar je bent geweest! From doug at nut.net Thu Jan 31 12:36:02 2002 From: doug at nut.net (Doug Salot) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: Need an ICE (fwd) Message-ID: [please contact the author, not me] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 13:18:33 -0500 From: Mark.Persich@walterkidde.com To: doug@blinkenlights.com Subject: Need an ICE Hello. We are looking for a ZAXTEK Model ICD-378 8088 Emulator to buy. Can you help or point me in the right direction? Thank You Mark Perisich From jss at subatomix.com Thu Jan 31 13:00:32 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: <200201311834.NAA05718@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20020131125914.B26852-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Bryan Pope wrote: > > And thusly Jeffrey S. Sharp spake: > > > > printer. It came with DOS 3.3. Later, it was upgraded with a 286 > > motherboard, more memory, a sound card, a 1200 baud modem, and a > > handheld > > Did you ever play Castle Wolfenstein on the 286? ;) I don't remember if I played it on the 286 or the 486SX machine that followed it, but I definitely played Wolfenstein! -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jan 31 13:14:46 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467595@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > From: Tothwolf > > > It's not possible to scan fiche directly (or so I've been told/shown). You > > first have to use a fiche printer (not cheap), then scan the paper copy. I > > may end up buying a fiche printer later this year if things work out. I > > had planned to buy one by mid this year, but looks like I won't be able > > to. > > How about using something like a (photograph) slide scanner type > setup? I would say just try it. Maybe you would have to do a quick > tweak in PhotoShop, but that would probably be easier than printing > first. Well, the problem is that a scanner does not have enough resolution to scan the reduced microfiche images. The only way to get a good print is to optically enlarge them (which is part of the printing process), then scan the enlarged version. -Toth From root at diablonet.net Thu Jan 31 13:18:08 2002 From: root at diablonet.net (Netdiablo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: Screwed again! Property dispo stuff... Message-ID: <3C599819.5754600F@diablonet.net> Hi everyone! I managed to make another trip out to the Univesity of Michigan Property Disposition warehouse. Here's what's up. * Continuing the REALLY annoying trend of people taking off with stuff before I can get to it, the ESV-3 was gone, which really sucks. I hope it went to a good home. * I did, however, pick up that Data General dual floppy disk drive. I made a mistake when originally posting to the list, however - the drive is a dual 5.25 inch unit, rather than an 8 inch unit. I'm not at all sure about the functional condition of the unit, and the model number of the drive is 6030. I paid $10 for it, and frankly, it's free to anyone who wants it. The only caveat is that you really have to pick it up from me, or arrange for someone else to do it in your stead. The thing weighs a ton, and I do not really have the time nor the inclination to lug it to a shipping outlet (I'm a student without a car, and I've forked enough money over to the taxi companies this month already). If the interested party is willing to wait a month or so, I can take it home over spring break and ship it out from there. Be forewarned that shipping will probably be somewhat expensive, though. * I also picked up an HP-IB looking cable with a Commodore logo on it. If I remember correctly, these were used to connect peripherals to some old Commodore systems (I don't really follow them). It looks like it is totally unused in original bag. If anyone wants it, let me know. I pretty much grabbed it with the express purpose of offering it to the list, as old micros aren't really my thing. It's free as well for the price of shipping, I guess. Kind regards, Sean -- Sean Caron http://www.diablonet.net scaron@engin.umich.edu root@diablonet.net From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Jan 31 13:40:10 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: Computer Museum of America on Tuesday night's PBS NOVA (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3C599754.3E649553@xs4all.nl> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020131144010.00fcce78@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that The Wanderer may have mentioned these words: > >Will there be anybody able to tape it and then convert it to an AVI file >or mpg >for download? If I remember, I'll tell my Tivo to record it, and then I can download it to my [[ can't mention it here, I'll get picked on again... ;-) ]] "non-impressive base machine" & convert it to MPEG2 - altho I'm not sure what size it'll be - depends on what resolution folks will be happy to put up with... Otherwise I could burn them to SVCD if anyone has DVD players that can play them... (www.vcdhelp.com has a database that can prolly tell you if your DVD player can play VCD/SVCD's.) HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From LFessen106 at aol.com Thu Jan 31 13:35:17 2002 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: Computer Museum of America on Tuesday night's PBS NOVA (fwd) Message-ID: In a message dated 1/31/02 2:30:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, quapla@xs4all.nl writes: > Will there be anybody able to tape it and then convert it to an AVI file > or mpg > Now *THAT* would be great! -Linc. In The Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... Calculating in binary code is as easy as 01,10,11. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020131/3d931853/attachment.html From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 31 14:30:45 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: Computer Museum of America on Tuesday night's PBS NOVA (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3C599754.3E649553@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, The Wanderer wrote: > > Will there be anybody able to tape it and then convert it to an AVI file > or mpg > for download? Pretty please, NO avi. I'd hate to have to install Windows. Doc From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jan 31 12:50:27 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020129151611.007cf230@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <20020129140851.45405.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >>First I ever sat in front of and worked on directly was an IBM 1130 via >>selectric console running a French version of APL. > > > Exactly how does a French version of APL differ from a US version??? >It's all Greek > > I also started out with APL on an 1130. My first use of APL was via dialup to UCLA to a 360, via selectric and 135 bps modem. Later with the 1130 somebody just showed up with a cartridge, and the APL was standard, but all the install etc docs were in French. Since it ran using the console Selectric it was technically the first computer I ever physically sat in front of and used, the others all either cards or terminals. BTW I also "started" with a HP45 in a belt holster, and its still here someplace. My regular use calculator is whatever pulls down from a on screen menu, but my HP 16C is still ready in my desk drawer. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 31 13:09:29 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W! In-Reply-To: <3C585068.26637.1336D98E@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Jan 30, 2 07:58:32 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 674 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020131/d7ff7941/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 31 13:24:34 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) In-Reply-To: <3C58B822.B00ACFF7@verizon.net> from "Ian Koller" at Jan 30, 2 10:21:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3012 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020131/beb73f58/attachment.ksh From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Thu Jan 31 19:33:30 2002 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: Video provisions on S-100 frames (was Re: 80 col Apple ][) Message-ID: >Additionally, I've actually never seen a 3rd-party S-100 box that made >any >provision for video signal to an external monitor at all. I've tried to resist, but.... I had an Icom Attache, made by Pertec. It was basically an Altair 8800bt (Turnkey), with an integrated keyboard and video capabilities. It was in a nice case, kinda like a large Apple II case (which it was desinged to compete against). Composite video output used a BNC connector. Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jan 31 13:36:00 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: Nuclear Data 66? In-Reply-To: Re: Nuclear Data 66? (Andreas Freiherr) References: <20020131135056.17367.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> <3C598079.CFC42BAD@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <15449.40096.94067.301545@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 31, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > I think I also saw one a _couple_ of years ago that had dual floppy > drives on top of the VT1xx box. Is it possible that there was something > like a VT180? Or was it the "Robin"? - Too long ago. "Dave ... my mind > is going ... I can feel it ..." It was probably a VT180, also known as a Robin. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From donm at cts.com Thu Jan 31 13:52:15 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: spam/avoidance of In-Reply-To: <3C591759.36ED1208@ccp.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > > > not so easy fix, your ISP can get on a blacklist from spoofed headers, > > > there are a handful of the blacklists out there that just add you, without > > > verifying that the spam did , in fact originate at your domain :( > > > > That is true. Some? of the blacklists will blacklist any site that COULD > > be used, based entirely on whether they have things like reverse DNS > > configured properly. > > > > How about an entire Community College being blacklisted (without ever > > having been hijacked)? And the "Network Administrator" is apparently not > > capable of fixing it! > > > I remember when Dalnet blacklisted AOL users for several months. Really > put the dampers on my IRC activities, as one of my better friends was an > AOL subscriber. > > What really is needed is stronger rules on unsolicited e-mails. Maybe > something like a no-send list, like we have here in Missouri for > telemarketers. > > Gary Hildebrand California has a law as cited in the the following paragraphs: Unsolicited commercial e-mail is in direct violation of the California Business & Professions Code Section 17538.4 which provides that all unsolicited commercial e-mail transmissions to California residents must meet certain requirements. Failure to comply with any of the rules is a criminal offense punishable by a $1,000 fine and/or six months imprisonment for each offense. In addition, individuals may file civil actions to seek injunctive relief. ================== I have no idea how many Californians are aware of it, or have taken advantage of the penalty part. - don From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Jan 31 14:56:48 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: spam/avoidance of In-Reply-To: <3C59A17C.D4012044@ccp.com> Message-ID: > There is a substantiated rumor out there that our legislators have > considered a "per e-mail" charge, to support the Post Office (not the > place to put the money). Maybe ISP's could be allowed to charge for > excessive e-mail useage, and keep the profits . . . Like the > Republicrats say, let the market decide the price. Would spammers pay > 30 or 50 cents per e-mail? Some would, some definitely wouldn't. > Gary, unless something has happened very recently this is pure urban legend. g. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 31 13:36:51 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: HP7475 driver needed In-Reply-To: <3C596111.16646.120A0AE@localhost> from "L. Berghouwer" at Jan 31, 2 03:21:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1047 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020131/710111f7/attachment.ksh From dan at ekoan.com Thu Jan 31 14:41:10 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: HP7475 driver needed In-Reply-To: References: <3C596111.16646.120A0AE@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020131153613.045ef630@enigma> At 07:36 PM 1/31/02 +0000, you wrote: >Can anyone remember how to run a 'confidence test' on the 7475? Pressing >2 buttons at once, and holding down a button while powering up doesn't >seem to do it. Nor does setting the HPIB address to 31 (normally illegal, >of course). Tony, I don't have a 7475 in front of me, but here's the steps to initiate the self-test: 1. Turn off power 2. Load pens Pen 1 = Black Pen 2 = Black Pen 3 = Red Pen 4 = Green Pen 5 = Blue Pen 6 = Violet 3. Load paper 4. Hold P1 and P2 down 5. Turn on power 6. Release P1 and P2 when plotting begins Cheers, Dan From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jan 31 15:38:57 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: Computer Museum of America on Tuesday night's PBS NOVA (fwd) In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Jan 31, 2002 08:59:17 AM Message-ID: <200201312138.g0VLcvv23961@shell1.aracnet.com> This would be Tuesday the 5th of February, 2002. Correct? Zane > > > FYI... > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:46:19 -0800 > From: David Weil > Subject: Computer Museum of America on Tuesday night's PBS NOVA > > Last April, a film crew from Boston came to Computer Museum of America at > Coleman College to film the staff operating several machines in the Museum > collection. See the results this coming TUESDAY night on PBS NOVA at 8pm. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > > From dankolb at ox.compsoc.net Thu Jan 31 15:01:10 2002 From: dankolb at ox.compsoc.net (Dan Kolb) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: Computer Museum of America on Tuesday night's PBS NOVA (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 31 Jan 2002 20:30 pm, Doc wrote: > On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, The Wanderer wrote: > > Will there be anybody able to tape it and then convert it to an AVI file > > or mpg > > for download? > > Pretty please, NO avi. I'd hate to have to install Windows. Um? You don't have to. MacOS has AVI / DivX playback. So does Linux, and presumably FreeBSD (avifile, xine, etc.). Personally, I'd quite like a DivX version of the programme. Slightly more ontopic, I got hold of a DEC VXT2000+ today, without a monitor. Could anyone give me any pointers as to how to get it going? Would it be possible to build a cable to allow it to use a VGA monitor? What resolution does it do? And how would I get it to boot up (assuming it even works still)? (I'm not going to have any time to do anything with it for the next 6 weeks or so, but I'll probably have more questions later on - hope that's okay :-) Dan - -- dankolb@ox.compsoc.net - --I reserve the right to be completely wrong about any comments or opinions expressed; don't trust everything you read above-- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 6.5.8 iQA/AwUBPFmwl5dDUnce+EgsEQLmkACfdk917rzqMyH6sTuGQJWRRvrfR4cAoL3K ANb5pW7hqU5q1KeFrUgGrP5G =+Oat -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Jan 31 15:14:20 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: Computer Museum of America on Tuesday night's PBS NOVA (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > > Will there be anybody able to tape it and then convert it to an AVI file > > or mpg > > for download? > > Pretty please, NO avi. I'd hate to have to install Windows. > > Doc > How about an ASCII'ized version? 80 x 24, you squint *real* hard... At least 30 frames / second wouldn't be any trouble. Well, unless you're Televideo 950 / ADM-3a only runs at 19200. From mythtech at Mac.com Thu Jan 31 15:59:41 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: Computer Museum of America on Tuesday night's PBS NOVA (fwd) Message-ID: >Um? You don't have to. MacOS has AVI / DivX playback. So does Linux, and >presumably FreeBSD (avifile, xine, etc.). >Personally, I'd quite like a DivX version of the programme. AVI is a pretty loose term in the Windows world. I have TONS of AVIs I can't play on my Mac because of lack of the correct codec (and they don't exist on the mac at all). But then there are others that play just fine. Same goes with DivX, although at least there, the Mac isn't as left out (it tends to be a little behind the curve of DivX versions, but so far, I have been able to play most DivX movies). Personally, I am up in the air about DivX on the Mac. It makes VERY nice quality videos, in a very small size, but at least in my playing, lacks the ability to scrub thru the video. That means I can fast forward, but only blindly (I can move the playback marker forward, but the video will not update as I do, so it is random hunt and peck). For that reason, I much prefer MPEG, since you get decent quality and decent file size, and can scrub thru a video, so you can stop when you hit something interesting looking. I just don't like Muxed MPEGs, since I can't unMux them on the Mac, which means I can't burn then to VCD on the mac (Sparkle's MPEGSplitter doesn't seem to work on any of the muxed files I have tried, always errors out without even trying) -chris From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 31 16:00:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: Computer Museum of America on Tuesday night's PBS NOVA (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020131144010.00fcce78@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <20020131220001.62989.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> --- Roger Merchberger wrote: > If I remember, I'll tell my Tivo to record it, and then I can download it > to my [[ can't mention it here, I'll get picked on again... ;-) ]] > "non-impressive base machine" & convert it to MPEG2 - altho I'm not sure > what size it'll be - depends on what resolution folks will be happy to > put up with... I'd appreciate VCD resolution at a minimum. Even a P100 (or CD-32 with MPEG cart) can play back a VCD mpeg. > Otherwise I could burn them to SVCD if anyone has DVD players that can > play them... I do! I have an upgraded Apex AD600A (I had to update the firmware because mine had a bug - it couldn't play SVCD disks with the video file in the MPEG2 directory, only in the MPEGAV directory). My experience is that an SVCD MPEG (which is 480x480) runs about 50 min for an 800Mb file (which barely fits on an 80 min CD-R because it uses 2552(?)-byte sectors, not 2048 byte sectors. Looks nice, though. VCD (352x200) is about 500MB for the same length (about 10MB/minute). I'm game, but I have broadband (presuming you didn't want to burn disks). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Jan 31 12:53:34 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:24:08 EST." Message-ID: <200201311853.SAA03587@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Julius Sridhar said: > On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > Tiny little calculator???? It's the biggest modern calculator I've ever > > seen!! Any bigger and it would be a laptop! > > Any smaller and the QWERTY keyboard wouldn't fit. > The Sharp Zaurus Linux-powered PDA has a qwerty keyboard...but I don't think anyone will be touch-typing on it! Looks very interesting all the same... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From mtapley at swri.edu Thu Jan 31 14:35:29 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: New line of VAX 6000s! Message-ID: >Paraphrasing slightly from Matthew Skala on alt.folklore.computers: CBLTH... Thanks, Pete, that made my whole day! Say, on another thread, has anybody noticed what a great match teergrube software might be for classic hardware? Who was it that was looking for productive employment for a classic-computing CPU farm a while back? - Mark From kapteynr at cboe.com Thu Jan 31 14:47:07 2002 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: Video provisions on S-100 frames (was Re: 80 col Apple ][) Message-ID: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF0CE02BCC@msx1.cboe.com> I soon I got my Altair 8800 working in 1975, I bought a Processor Technology VDM-1 card. (Video Display Module) We converted a black and white portable TV to be the monitor. I believe that the VDM-1 provided the prototype for PC character graphics and extended-ascii "special" characters. I noticed that the Commodare 64, which came later, pretty much copied it, with a few additions. >From memory, I think it was only 64 columns wide (by 32 lines ? ) We modified our VDM-1 with a homemade light-pen attachment. (there is an article in Byte? how to do this). -Rob -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher [SMTP:edick@idcomm.com] Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 9:38 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Video provisions on S-100 frames (was Re: 80 col Apple ][) I'd be really interested in knowing specifics about this, if you have them. I've got several S-100 boxes, and not a one has any accomodation for video signal from an internal source. I did, in the rar distant past, own a couple of systems, at least one of which was from Vector Graphics, that used an external moitor+keyboard combination resembling a terminal, which it wasn't, but most of the S-100 arrangements I've got, including a combination from SD Systems, which uses a video display/keyboard port board not only has no cable that came with it, but simply provides pads to which a video cable was to be soldered. Though I've got this hardware, I've never tried it out, as I've always been satisfied with a serial terminal. Additionally, I've actually never seen a 3rd-party S-100 box that made any provision for video signal to an external monitor at all. The ones I have are all Integrand boxes, so that's not a good example, being from only one maker, and the CompuPro boxes I've junked had no provision for video connectors either. I'd be interested in knowing about ----- Original Message ----- From: "M H Stein" To: "'ClassicComputers'" Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 3:57 AM Subject: 80 col Apple ][ > Any ideas from you Apple experts how I tell CP/M software > to use an 80 column card? Display is 40 col from motherboard, > all I get from 80 col card is a blinking cursor. > > No switches or id on 80 col card; it has 3 EPROM sockets, > but only ROM2 & ROM3 are present. No reason why ROM1 should > have been removed, so I'm hoping it was an option. > > Both video outputs and the built-in RF out all use RCA > connectors, BTW :) > > And in reply to the question about SO239 (AKA UHF or 83 Series) > connectors for video, the commercial (as opposed to homebrew) > video out adapter on my PET uses one; other than that, in my > experience the mass-produced systems used either RCA or > proprietary connectors, and S100 & similar multi-card chassis > used BNCs when they had internal video. > > mike > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 31 14:48:49 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > I have a real Myford dividing head. It's a 60:1 gearbox with the output > spindle having an end (and an internal morse taper) identical to the > lathe mandrel (so you can fit the chuck, collets, and so on to hold the > workpiece). The input spindle has the division plate/index pin as you > suggest. I'm seriously jealous. > Whichever way you use it, it's ideal for cutting small gears. The > division plates I have give you all numbers up to 50, and all even > numbers apart from 88 (I think) from 50 to 100. You can get other plates > for the other divisions, but I doubt I'll ever need them. OK. I've tried hard to stay out of this thread, but as a silversmith, ex-welder/machinist, and devoted tinkerer, I can no longer sit still. This is not rocket science. Take the thing (the whole assembly) to the local watchmaker. Get N+1 pieces made. Share. Or, with a good indexing head and very basic diamond tools - don't flinch, my set for the flexshaft cost ~$30 - you just do it. Find the OD, and get a rod to suit. Count teeth, guesstimate (tm) the depth and width (ratio) of the teeth. Do basic math. Start cutting trial gears. And, forget casting. In the size gear you're looking at, by the time you remove flash, correct warpage, and polish the casting, you've pretty much machined a gear.... Doc From allain at panix.com Thu Jan 31 14:52:18 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help References: Message-ID: <007c01c1aa99$2c602060$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > The only way to get a good print is to optically enlarge > them (which is part of the printing process), then scan > the enlarged version. Never say "only way". I having good luck pointing a digicam into a microscope eyepiece. There must be a good way of doing that, esp for the SLR holders out there. Forms a direct to digital method anyway. John A. From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jan 31 14:54:50 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: HP7475 driver needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > Talking of 7475s. I have what appears to be an IBM-badged HP7475 on the > bench at the moment. It's got an HPIB interface (labelled IEEE488, BTW). > I don't know if the firmware is the standard HP stuff or not -- the ROMs > have HP 1818-xxxx numbers but that doesn't mean much. > > Can anyone remember how to run a 'confidence test' on the 7475? Pressing > 2 buttons at once, and holding down a button while powering up doesn't > seem to do it. Nor does setting the HPIB address to 31 (normally illegal, > of course). > > If I can attempt to run the test I can see (a) if the ROMs are certainly > different (if it doesn't run the test at all) and (b) if there's still a > 'Hewlett Packard' or 'HP' on the test plot. IIRC, mine had some sort of menu option for some internal tests, but I don't recall a plot test. I did basic plot tests on my plotters from the computer. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jan 31 14:56:22 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: HP7475 driver needed In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020131153613.045ef630@enigma> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Dan Veeneman wrote: > At 07:36 PM 1/31/02 +0000, you wrote: > >Can anyone remember how to run a 'confidence test' on the 7475? Pressing > >2 buttons at once, and holding down a button while powering up doesn't > >seem to do it. Nor does setting the HPIB address to 31 (normally illegal, > >of course). > > Tony, > > I don't have a 7475 in front of me, but here's the steps to > initiate the self-test: Wow, I learn something from this list every day it seems :) Maybe one day I should find a book for the 7475s I've got stored away? -Toth From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Jan 31 15:20:18 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: spam/avoidance of In-Reply-To: References: <3C591759.36ED1208@ccp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020131162018.00faecb8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Don Maslin may have mentioned these words: >California has a law as cited in the the following paragraphs: > > Unsolicited commercial e-mail is in direct violation of the California > Business & Professions Code Section 17538.4 which provides that all > unsolicited commercial e-mail transmissions to California residents > must meet certain requirements. > > Failure to comply with any of the rules is a criminal offense > punishable by a $1,000 fine and/or six months imprisonment for each > offense. In addition, individuals may file civil actions to seek > injunctive relief. > > ================== >I have no idea how many Californians are aware of it, or have taken >advantage of the penalty part. or have actually been able to find the spammers to send them the bill / subpoena... With the ability to spoof almost every header of SMTP traffic, tracking the spammers is quite difficult. Before UCE is stomped dead in it's tracks, SMTP has to go away, and be replaced by a more responsible infrastructure, that would hold people accountable for the use of their accounts. ISP's should also be held accountable - if a spammer hits an ISP and the ISP kills the account & blacklists the person/company, then the ISP is not at fault. However, if there are some ISP's that can't/won't take responsibility for the management of their servers (i.e. open relaying, no accountability of the users, etc.) then these ISP's should also be part of the criminal offense. I'm co-owner of an ISP, so I'm not picking on folks I don't know anything about... Hit 'em in the pocketbook, or hit 'em in the nose - but until the responsible people can actually find the bad guys to hit 'em, the situation will never change. :-( Back ontopic (kinda) - Anyone know how to boot OS-9 on my Palm? :-) Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 31 15:38:09 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: Docs for Sonic IIci/SE30 Ethernet? Message-ID: I need the jumper settings. The base card has 2 3-pin jumpers, J4 and J5. J4 is labeled A and 9, and J5 isn't labelled. The daughtercard has 2 18-pin (I think, maybe 20-pin) DIP sockets, labeled AUI & BNC, and the AUI socket has a DIP module that looks like a straight jumper block. I've got OS 7.1 installed, and "Ethernet Inside" sees the card, but it fails all tests. I'm not willing to go for the "hosed" option yet. And no, of course there's no part number anywhere. It has a right-angle PDS pass-through, what looks like an empty FPU socket, and AUI & BNC connectors. Thanks, Doc From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 31 08:11:56 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: Computer Museum of America on Tuesday night's PBS NOVA (fwd) In-Reply-To: <200201312138.g0VLcvv23961@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > This would be Tuesday the 5th of February, 2002. Correct? According to PBS' website, yes: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/listseason/29.html#2904 Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 31 16:43:35 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: Computer Museum of America on Tuesday night's PBS NOVA (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Dan Kolb wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Thursday 31 Jan 2002 20:30 pm, Doc wrote: > > On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, The Wanderer wrote: > > > Will there be anybody able to tape it and then convert it to an AVI file > > > or mpg > > > for download? > > > > Pretty please, NO avi. I'd hate to have to install Windows. > > Um? You don't have to. MacOS has AVI / DivX playback. So does Linux, and > presumably FreeBSD (avifile, xine, etc.). > Personally, I'd quite like a DivX version of the programme. Uh, not necessarily. .avi covers a whole world of sins. AVI is not a single format, and some aren't supported under MacOS or Linux. I dunno about *BSD. MPG is a lot more universal. OGG would be more politically correct. Doc From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Jan 31 17:05:19 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: Computer Museum of America on Tuesday night's PBS NOVA (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, The Wanderer wrote: > > > > > Will there be anybody able to tape it and then convert it to an AVI file > > or mpg > > for download? > > Pretty please, NO avi. I'd hate to have to install Windows. > > Doc Since I'm a Linux geek, I'll recommend mplayer. It uses Windows CODEC's to play AVI's and MPG's (even DivX) on Linux. http://www.MPlayerHQ.hu/homepage/ -- Pat From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jan 31 17:07:42 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:28 2005 Subject: Computer Museum of America on Tuesday night's PBS NOVA (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Doc wrote: > > Will there be anybody able to tape it and then convert it to an AVI file > > or mpg > > for download? > > Pretty please, NO avi. I'd hate to have to install Windows. I view AVI's on UNIX all the time. Peace... Sridhar From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jan 31 13:20:48 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: Video provisions on S-100 frames (was Re: 80 col Apple ][) References: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF0CE02BCC@msx1.cboe.com> Message-ID: <3C599910.C919B02@jetnet.ab.ca> Rob Kapteyn wrote: > I believe that the VDM-1 provided the prototype for PC character graphics and extended-ascii "special" characters. > I noticed that the Commodare 64, which came later, pretty much copied it, with a few additions. > > >From memory, I think it was only 64 columns wide (by 32 lines ? ) I got VDM-1 manual here. The VDM and schematic got lost years ago. 16 lines of 64 characters with a 13.5 Mhz dot clock. The character generator is 8 wide x 12 down 7 bit characters. Bit #8 inverted video. The first 32 control characters may have graphic characters, depending how control characters are handled. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jan 31 16:20:55 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: Docs for Sonic IIci/SE30 Ethernet? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > I need the jumper settings. The base card has 2 3-pin jumpers, J4 and > J5. J4 is labeled A and 9, and J5 isn't labelled. The daughtercard has > 2 18-pin (I think, maybe 20-pin) DIP sockets, labeled AUI & BNC, and the > AUI socket has a DIP module that looks like a straight jumper block. > I've got OS 7.1 installed, and "Ethernet Inside" sees the card, but it > fails all tests. > > I'm not willing to go for the "hosed" option yet. And no, of course > there's no part number anywhere. It has a right-angle PDS pass-through, > what looks like an empty FPU socket, and AUI & BNC connectors. How many pins is the empty socket? It might be for a boot rom, but if it's a 40 pin dip, it could have been where the card's cpu went. What kind of large chips are on the board? -Toth From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 31 16:54:04 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: Docs for Sonic IIci/SE30 Ethernet? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > How many pins is the empty socket? It might be for a boot rom, but if it's > a 40 pin dip, it could have been where the card's cpu went. What kind of > large chips are on the board? Ack. It's in the box. The empty socket is square, about 1-1/8" what-I-always-called-"J-leg". Looks just like the FPU socket on the McCon+ adapter for SE/30 & IIsi that's on eBay. As soon as I get the thing out, I'll give you chip #s. Doc From mythtech at Mac.com Thu Jan 31 17:04:27 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: Docs for Sonic IIci/SE30 Ethernet? Message-ID: >> I'm not willing to go for the "hosed" option yet. And no, of course >> there's no part number anywhere. It has a right-angle PDS pass-through, >> what looks like an empty FPU socket, and AUI & BNC connectors. > >How many pins is the empty socket? It might be for a boot rom, but if it's >a 40 pin dip, it could have been where the card's cpu went. What kind of >large chips are on the board? The empty "fpu looking" socket might very well have been for an FPU. most of the IIsi PDS right angle adaptors (commonly found with IIsi ethernet cards), had an FPU option, since the IIsi didn't have one natively. The adaptors were all the same, it was just a matter of if the vendor filled the socket. But that would only be the case if this empty socket is on the right angle adaptor, and not on the ethernet card itself. If it is on the enet card, then yeah, it might be a boot rom... but did the early mac's support boot roms? I don't think they did. I base this on the "oh wow" factor of the Netboot that arrived with OS 9/Original OS X Server, and on the old "TDM - The Diskless Mac" setup by Sonic(?). -chris From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 31 17:50:25 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: Docs for Sonic IIci/SE30 Ethernet? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Chris wrote: > But that would only be the case if this empty socket is on the right > angle adaptor, and not on the ethernet card itself. If it is on the enet > card, then yeah, it might be a boot rom... but did the early mac's > support boot roms? I don't think they did. I base this on the "oh wow" > factor of the Netboot that arrived with OS 9/Original OS X Server, and on > the old "TDM - The Diskless Mac" setup by Sonic(?). The ethernet card *is* the right-angle adapter. I swear. There's no logic on the daughtercard. Crud, I may have to jerk it out & take a picture. And I never heard of The Diskless Mac, but it sounds cool. Doc From mythtech at Mac.com Thu Jan 31 18:37:32 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: Docs for Sonic IIci/SE30 Ethernet? Message-ID: > The ethernet card *is* the right-angle adapter. I swear. There's no >logic on the daughtercard. > Crud, I may have to jerk it out & take a picture. > And I never heard of The Diskless Mac, but it sounds cool. Interesting. I haven't seen one of those, I've always seen them as a "IIsi & SE/30" ethernet card, and then a seperate IIsi adaptor card (with or without an FPU). I just pulled out my files of The Diskless Mac. It is by Sonic. I originally found the stuff just sitting on their FTP site (so naturally I downloaded it). I've never used it, but from what I can tell of it works with Sonic ethernet cards, and a BootP server (they even include a mini unix BootP server), and lets you use create a "Boot Image" that gets stored on the ethernet card. So they have a sort of Boot RAM instead of a Boot ROM. Their readme does make a mention of NOT installing the "secure boot extension" without having the TDM 2.0 Boot ROMs installed. So either the roms are flashable, or maybe can be pulled and replaced, or possibly are an optional part entirely (meaning that socket might very well be for the boot rom, and not an FPU). I tried running the TDM admin on this machine (PM 6500 with stock Apple 10b-T card), and it didn't recognize it as a valid machine to admin. It would be interesting to see if it would recognize your card, since you have a sonic card. (maybe once I get my PB 1400 running again, I will try it on my Sonic PCMCIA ethernet card) You can still download the software from their FTP site (I just checked). Go to ftp.sonicsys.com/pub/software/Unsupported/The_Diskless_Mac. They also have the latest version of their Ethernet drivers there (v7.8), so maybe that has a newer version of a diagnostic tool to see if your card is still good. -chris From ceby2 at csc.com Thu Jan 31 16:22:26 2002 From: ceby2 at csc.com (ceby2@csc.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions Message-ID: Bryan -- And thusly Jeffrey S. Sharp spake: > > printer. It came with DOS 3.3. Later, it was upgraded with a 286 > motherboard, more memory, a sound card, a 1200 baud modem, and a handheld Did you ever play Castle Wolfenstein on the 286? ;) Cheers, Bryan Does playing on an Atari 800XL count? There's a machine with 286 envy. Colin Eby Senior Consultant CSC Consulting From mtapley at swri.edu Thu Jan 31 17:19:15 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions Message-ID: >How many people on this list still have their 1st computer? second? third? >every computer you ever used/owned? 1st Used: Dec-10, via modem from home (dad brought home terminal) 1st Owned: Hmmm, Dad brought home a TRS-80. He never used it. I did. It's gone. dunno if that counts. First one that *I* owned (after the TI-59, still have) was a Mac 512k. I still have the original lower case, picture tube, and keyboard. The rest, including upper case, motherboard, floppy, power supply, etc. was swapped in upgrades. Still in use for games, on rare occasions. Now it's a Mac Plus, after all the upgrades. Second owned: Rainbow 100A, $25 surplus at Stanford. Still have it. Not in use, except rarely, but several projects planned on it. Third owned: NeXT 040 Cube, $850 from Whitelight systems, it's on my desk at work, I use it all the time. Prices, where given, do not include the (substantial) cost of upgrades, software, etc. Other used, not owned: CDC 7?00 and PDP-11/44 (?) at University of Texas, Balcones Computer Co. CP/M machine same place, NeXT Computer (030) at Stanford (*tried* to get that one, but no go), Many PC's etc. in labs. Big computers (forgot what kind - maybe IBM and Cyber?) at GSFC Owned and sold/gave away: 2 of 4 AT&T Unix PC's in a haul from California. Still have 2. Now my wife can't say I never gave anything away. Misplaced printer for the TI-59 :-(. Packrat genes definitely present. From mythtech at Mac.com Thu Jan 31 17:20:47 2002 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions Message-ID: > Did you ever play Castle Wolfenstein on the 286? ;) I played Castle Smurfenstein on my II+ (as well as Wolfenstein, and Beyond Wolfenstein... but Smurfenstein was by far the best... for no other reason then you get to shoot Smurfs) -chris From mtapley at swri.edu Thu Jan 31 16:31:26 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: Nuclear Data 66? In-Reply-To: <200201311609.g0VG9GQ60135@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: >Has anyone ever heard of Nuclear Data? I found this cool-assed computer >today. It's an all-in-one unit (CRT/keyboard/diskdrive/CPU) and is fairly >big (say, as big as an IBM Datamaster, bigger than a PET). Yes. I saw one recently in a big pile of equipment SwRI was surplussing. I couldn't divert it from the surplus stream. It was supposed to go to a surlpus dealer around here, whose name is on a piece of paper on my desk, which is bad news because I may never see it again. I can excavate if you need it, no promises though. Don't recall whether it was a '66. It seemed to have some o-scope or data acquisition type functions on it as well as computer stuff - I did not look closely. - Mark From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 31 08:17:03 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: Nuclear Data 66? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Mark Tapley wrote: > Yes. I saw one recently in a big pile of equipment SwRI was surplussing. > I couldn't divert it from the surplus stream. It was supposed to go to a > surlpus dealer around here, whose name is on a piece of paper on my > desk, which is bad news because I may never see it again. I can excavate > if you need it, no promises though. Not necessary, but it's sufficiently neat that I would highly recommend you track the beast down and rescue it. Unfortunately, I still haven't gotten anything in the way of information about this. The thread launched into a description of the VT-103 which this is obviously not. SOMEBODY must have used one of these at some point and has some information on it. Did I forget to mention it has a 5.25" drive on the front near the CRT? It would be cool to get some OS software for it, but I'm thinking it might be able to boot something from the onboard firmware. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Jan 31 19:03:39 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: Nuclear Data 66? Message-ID: <00ce01c1aabd$4b7feba0$24ee9a8d@ajp166> From: Andreas Freiherr To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Thursday, January 31, 2002 5:15 PM Subject: Re: Nuclear Data 66? > Strangely enough... it's the VT103! Had optional dual drive TU58 mounted > under monitor (got one, gotta replace the rollers with tygon tubing). I think I also saw one a _couple_ of years ago that had dual floppy drives on top of the VT1xx box. Is it possible that there was something like a VT180? Or was it the "Robin"? - Too long ago. "Dave ... my mind is going ... I can feel it ..." If it had two TU58 then it was a PDP-11 cousin called the PDT11/130. FYI if it is the driver for RT11 is PD as the tape and serial ports are handled very differently than the generic -11 I/O. Same for the PDT11/150 that had two RX01 drives. Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 31 16:32:11 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: HP7475 driver needed In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020131153613.045ef630@enigma> from "Dan Veeneman" at Jan 31, 2 03:41:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 866 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020131/f2a152fd/attachment.ksh From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jan 31 17:01:50 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > Tiny little calculator???? It's the biggest modern calculator I've ever > > > seen!! Any bigger and it would be a laptop! > > > > Any smaller and the QWERTY keyboard wouldn't fit. > > It's the separate numeric keypad, function keys (F1-F8) and the cursor > control pad that makes it so big :) > > I got mine when it first came out when I started going back to school a > few years back. I was the envy of the class ;) > > I think I'll fire mine up for old times sake and see about putting Unix on > it. > I would suggest that you call up TI and get a TI-92+ Module Upgrade. It adds a crapload of RAM, as well as 320kB ROM, some math functions, and expanded OS capabilities. It's neat, and it's about $75. Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jan 31 17:04:47 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) In-Reply-To: <20020131120354.U26852-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > > > My smallest UNIX box right now is my TI-92 calculator. > > > > > > Explain explain explain! > > > > Well, it's a tiny little calculator based on a 10 MHz 68000 and 188KB of > > RAM, and 320 KB Flash ROM. It has a QWERTY keyboard and a 240X180 (?) > > screen. Check out http://www.ticalc.org/ and look under TI-92+. > > Man, I haven't been to that site since high school, when I downloaded some > games for my 85. I have a 92+ and will check this out! I think you will be surprised how much easier it is to use assembler on the 92+ as compared to the 85. The 89/92/92+ rocks. Peace... Sridhar From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Jan 31 17:12:41 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: New Buy & VMS help wanted Message-ID: I just got a VAXstation 3200 today for about $15... Amazingly enough, it boots up to VMS 5.3-1 (can't log in though.) Can anyone recommend a good guide for using VMS that's either avalible at a good book store or (preferred) availble online? Specs: 8 line serial card (forgot to look at the model #), TK-50 controller (didn't grab the drive, but might do that tomorrow..), 8-plane framebuffer, 2x8M QBus memory cards, 2x760M ST-506 interface hard drives, DELQA ethernet, KA650-B cpu card, (and that's about all I think...) pics at http://purdueriots.com/imgs/vs3200-back-lores.jpg and http://purdueriots.com/imgs/vs3200-front-lores.jpg -- Pat From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jan 31 17:35:52 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: New Buy & VMS help wanted In-Reply-To: from "Pat Finnegan" at Jan 31, 2002 06:12:41 PM Message-ID: <200201312335.g0VNZq030070@shell1.aracnet.com> > I just got a VAXstation 3200 today for about $15... Amazingly enough, it > boots up to VMS 5.3-1 (can't log in though.) Can anyone recommend a good > guide for using VMS that's either avalible at a good book store or > (preferred) availble online? Sounds like a great buy! Your first stop needs to be the OpenVMS FAQ, it will tell you how to login if you've forgotten your password. http://eisner.decus.org/vms/faq.htm Your second stop needs to be the OpenVMS doc site: http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/ Zane From emu at ecubics.com Thu Jan 31 18:07:30 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: New Buy & VMS help wanted References: Message-ID: <3C59DC42.9FEA11F7@ecubics.com> Pat Finnegan wrote: > > I just got a VAXstation 3200 today for about $15... Amazingly enough, it > boots up to VMS 5.3-1 (can't log in though.) Can anyone recommend a good > guide for using VMS that's either avalible at a good book store or > (preferred) availble online? www.openvms.compaq.com (look for "reference library", online documentation ...) be prepared to spend a few hours online ;-) > Specs: 8 line serial card (forgot to look at the model #), TK-50 > controller (didn't grab the drive, but might do that tomorrow..), 8-plane > framebuffer, 2x8M QBus memory cards, 2x760M ST-506 interface hard drives, 760M ST-506 drives ? Are you sure ? My bet is ESDI ... > DELQA ethernet, KA650-B cpu card, (and that's about all I think...) nice machine ! cheers From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jan 31 18:52:01 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: New Buy & VMS help wanted In-Reply-To: New Buy & VMS help wanted (Pat Finnegan) References: Message-ID: <15449.59057.154127.351283@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 31, Pat Finnegan wrote: > I just got a VAXstation 3200 today for about $15... Amazingly enough, it > boots up to VMS 5.3-1 (can't log in though.) Can anyone recommend a good > guide for using VMS that's either avalible at a good book store or > (preferred) availble online? > > Specs: 8 line serial card (forgot to look at the model #), TK-50 > controller (didn't grab the drive, but might do that tomorrow..), 8-plane > framebuffer, 2x8M QBus memory cards, 2x760M ST-506 interface hard drives, > DELQA ethernet, KA650-B cpu card, (and that's about all I think...) > > pics at http://purdueriots.com/imgs/vs3200-back-lores.jpg > and http://purdueriots.com/imgs/vs3200-front-lores.jpg Wow, nice machine! :-) The ST506 MFM interface maxes out at 160MB...those are probably ESDI drives. And if they are, I'm jealous. :-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From mhstein at canada.com Thu Jan 31 17:25:26 2002 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: Looking for a WD 1001 55 Disk controller Message-ID: <01C1AA8F.489BCD60@mse-d03> In case it's useful, I have a controller card out of an external dual HD that sounds very similar, but made by Quality Computer Services in Metuchen, NJ. It has an N8X300I and a bunch of WD1100V series chips, all socketed, and a 40 pin interface connector (as well as the three HD connectors of course). mike ------Original Message------- Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 20:01:43 -0700 From: "Richard Erlacher" Subject: Re: Looking for a WD 1001 55 Disk controller The WD1001 is a board using the WD 1100 chipset supported with an 8x300/305-type microcontroller. Dick From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Jan 31 19:06:37 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: so, can you run UNIX on a PDP11/03 or not? Message-ID: <00cf01c1aabd$4c143c60$24ee9a8d@ajp166> Yes, I used to ru RT-11 on a 11/780 so I could have a few of my favorte apps that werent on the VAX. That was a long time ago. Allison -----Original Message----- From: John Allain To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Thursday, January 31, 2002 5:15 PM Subject: Re: so, can you run UNIX on a PDP11/03 or not? >> has anybody ever run a VAX11 in PDP mode for real? > >I did, but not seriously. >On an 11/780 for one, you could say "MCR PDP" IIRC >and do some basic operations. I think it was intended >to help people do porting without having to have the >other machine present. > >John A. > > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jan 31 17:47:35 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: VT131 needs keyboard help In-Reply-To: Tothwolf "RE: VT131 needs keyboard help" (Jan 31, 13:14) References: Message-ID: <10201312347.ZM23163@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 31, 13:14, Tothwolf wrote: > On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > How about using something like a (photograph) slide scanner type > > setup? I would say just try it. > Well, the problem is that a scanner does not have enough resolution to > scan the reduced microfiche images. The only way to get a good print is to > optically enlarge them (which is part of the printing process), then scan > the enlarged version. I don't think David meant the sort of backlight arrangement you use to scan slides on a normal desktop scanner, I think he meant a proper 35mm slide scanner. Now a 35mm slide is roughly 2-3 times the size of a microfiche page (in both dimensions) but I think it might be worth a try if you could actually get the fiche into it. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Jan 31 19:13:59 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: so, can you run UNIX on a PDP11/03 or not? Message-ID: <00de01c1aabf$6a4b9be0$24ee9a8d@ajp166> Actually VMS was ok but VMS as everyone knows is also chock full of utilities and tools... many of which would remain as base PDP11 code (coded as RSX-11 compatable) for a while. I think V2.mumble . Some would be recoded as VAX native and live another version. Allison -----Original Message----- From: William Donzelli To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Thursday, January 31, 2002 5:16 PM Subject: Re: so, can you run UNIX on a PDP11/03 or not? >> The only use of the vax11's pdp11 compatibility mode that I've ever >> heard of was to run RSX-11 binaries under VMS. > >I think VMS 1.0 used it because it was not really ready to ship (what a >suprise). The RCS VAXgeek said that some old PDP-11 code was >kludged in with a big hammer (and the compatibilty mode) to get the early >VMS to work. The kludges were dropped shortly afterwards. > >William Donzelli >aw288@osfn.org From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Jan 31 19:21:27 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: so, can you run UNIX on a PDP11/03 or not? Message-ID: <00df01c1aabf$6d971d60$24ee9a8d@ajp166> Yep, I have and many did. It was there to provide the migration path for those people that had outgrown PDP-11/70s but also needed the platform to put up new code on. Early VMS would run RSX-11 apps directly and could also support RT-11 and RSTS. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Gunther Schadow To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Thursday, January 31, 2002 5:16 PM Subject: so, can you run UNIX on a PDP11/03 or not? >I hear mixed messages about that. Is there someone who knows, >and not only if any, but also which version of UNIX would run? >I want to give it a shot. > >Also, has anybody ever run a VAX11 in PDP mode for real? Sound >pretty wild to me to spend so much money only to not use the >virtual memory. > >cheers, >-Gunther > >-- >Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org >Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care >Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine >tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org > > From mhstein at canada.com Thu Jan 31 19:23:14 2002 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: Video provisions on S-100 frames (was Re: 80 col Apple ][ Message-ID: <01C1AA95.38F03580@mse-d03> UNCLE! (And my apologies to the list for reviving a thread that had thankfully petered out; I shoulda known I'd wake up Richard). My only excuse is that I'm on the digest version & not always current. Goshdarn it, Richard, I was sort of agreeing with you that BNCs were not very common; all my monitors from that era also use UHF connectors for the industrial/CCTV ones, and RCA jacks for the computer monitors (but I didn't have the guts to challenge Tony's assertion that there were no computer monitors in the Apple][ era). Although others on the list apparently do have systems that actually have BNC connectors, I must confess that I based my assertion on the fact that both my Vector Graphics and Cromemco chassis have the distinctive 'D' cutouts for BNC connectors on the back panel, so I assumed that cards like the Dazzler either came with a cable to connect to a BNC jack, or it was expected that you made your own. I could install a BNC jack, though, and send you a picture. I think there's a scientific principle that says it's easy to prove that there are three-legged ducks if you have one, but to state categorically that they don't exist anywhere is not so easy to justify. Let's just say that in the computers of that day, if it could be done, somebody probably did it, and let it go at that (after you have the last word, of course :-). Still no reply to my question about 80 cols on an Apple][ though; surely there's somebody out there who has an answer? mike ---------------Original Message-------------- Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 08:38:26 -0700 From: "Richard Erlacher" Subject: Video provisions on S-100 frames (was Re: 80 col Apple ][) I'd be really interested in knowing specifics about this, if you have them. I've got several S-100 boxes, and not a one has any accomodation for video signal from an internal source. I did, in the rar distant past, own a couple of systems, at least one of which was from Vector Graphics, From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jan 31 20:27:27 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: Video provisions on S-100 frames (was Re: 80 col Apple ][ References: <01C1AA95.38F03580@mse-d03> Message-ID: <3C59FD0F.B308E41E@tiac.net> Umm, but Imsai's also have BNC connector punch-outs for your CompuPrisims and Dazzlers! M H Stein wrote: > UNCLE! > > (And my apologies to the list for reviving a thread that had thankfully > petered out; I shoulda known I'd wake up Richard). My only excuse is > that I'm on the digest version & not always current. > > Goshdarn it, Richard, I was sort of agreeing with you that BNCs were > not very common; all my monitors from that era also use UHF connectors > for the industrial/CCTV ones, and RCA jacks for the computer monitors > (but I didn't have the guts to challenge Tony's assertion that there were > no computer monitors in the Apple][ era). > > Although others on the list apparently do have systems that actually have > BNC connectors, I must confess that I based my assertion on the fact that > both my Vector Graphics and Cromemco chassis have the distinctive 'D' cutouts > for BNC connectors on the back panel, so I assumed that cards like > the Dazzler either came with a cable to connect to a BNC jack, or it > was expected that you made your own. I could install a BNC jack, though, > and send you a picture. > > I think there's a scientific principle that says it's easy to prove that > there are three-legged ducks if you have one, but to state categorically > that they don't exist anywhere is not so easy to justify. > > Let's just say that in the computers of that day, if it could be done, > somebody probably did it, and let it go at that (after you have the last > word, of course :-). > > Still no reply to my question about 80 cols on an Apple][ though; surely > there's somebody out there who has an answer? > > mike > > ---------------Original Message-------------- > > Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 08:38:26 -0700 > From: "Richard Erlacher" > Subject: Video provisions on S-100 frames (was Re: 80 col Apple ][) > > I'd be really interested in knowing specifics about this, if you have them. > I've got several S-100 boxes, and not a one has any accomodation for video > signal from an internal source. I did, in the rar distant past, own a couple > of systems, at least one of which was from Vector Graphics, > From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jan 31 20:48:17 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: Video provisions on S-100 frames (was Re: 80 col Apple ][ In-Reply-To: <01C1AA95.38F03580@mse-d03> References: <01C1AA95.38F03580@mse-d03> Message-ID: >Let's just say that in the computers of that day, if it could be done, >somebody probably did it, and let it go at that (after you have the last >word, of course :-). I've got a Solid State Music VB1 video board, schematics dated 12-29-76, that outputs both parallel and composite video and which has a standard coax cable coming off of it's composite leads. S-100 bus, capable of 64 x 16 text display. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From allain at panix.com Thu Jan 31 20:52:02 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: 11/03 v 11/23 References: <01C1AA95.38F03580@mse-d03> Message-ID: <002901c1aacb$6da509a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Hi, I am thinking of getting a hacked LSI-11 machine that somebody has. It has the chip in it and an 18 bit bus (he thinks). Is it then an '03, because of the smaller bus, or is there some other criteron? I tried two related DEC books (Microcomputer Processors, Micro/PDP Handbook), one book is 16 bit, the other 22, nothing on 18 so perhaps my source is wrong? John A. From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Thu Jan 31 19:39:29 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: Anything special about converting VAX 11/780 to single phase? Message-ID: <3C59F1D1.9060609@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, just to be sure, I would simply put all three phases on the same single phase. Are there any problems with that? The VAX 6000 is much pickier, but the VAX 11 and everything having the simple power distribution box should be fine, right? thanks, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From blacklord at telstra.com Thu Jan 31 20:11:48 2002 From: blacklord at telstra.com (blacklord) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: Packrat genome project questions Message-ID: <1632f6161bbd.161bbd1632f6@bigpond.com> > > How many people on this list still have their 1st computer? > second? third? > > every computer you ever used/owned? Let's see .... my original 8k PET 2001 from 1978 that my parents bought for me, my father's Exidy Sorceror that he bought in 1979, my VIC20 from 1980, my C64 from '82 then every machine I've bought or built since.... currently occupying three rooms & still growing :-) cheers, Lance (Oh yeah, the PET is still used on a nearly daily basis.....) ---------------- Powered by telstra.com From root at diablonet.net Thu Jan 31 20:22:32 2002 From: root at diablonet.net (Netdiablo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: Screwed Again! Property dispo stuff... Message-ID: <3C59FB71.29952E27@diablonet.net> > * I also picked up an HP-IB looking cable with a Commodore > logo on it. If I remember correctly, these were used to connect > peripherals to some old Commodore systems (I don't really follow > them). It looks like it is totally unused in original bag. If anyone > wants it, let me know. I pretty much grabbed it with the express > purpose of offering it to the list, as old micros aren't really my > thing. It's free as well for the price of shipping, I guess. Well, a very kind soul has informed me that this cable is a quasi rare item used to connect peripherals to Commodore PET systems, and apparently that they are worth a bit of money ($50-80). So, before I just end up giving this thing away to the person lucky enough to nail me on a "first come, first serve" basis, does anyone have any ideas on how to make this part available to anyone who may be interested in it in an at least marginally equitable fashion (if multiple people are interested)? If nobody's interested, then I'll just hang onto the thing -- I'm sure somebody might run into the need for one sometime in the future. Otherwise, if you want it, just shoot me an e-mail and let me know -- i'll wait a little while and see how many people are interested, and we can go from there... I don't mean to offend anyone by kind of retracting my original offer -- I just want to give everyone who may be interested in the part an equal chance at grabbing it irrespective of "luck of getting to me first". I'm still not looking for a fortune here -- if anyone wants to cover my costs on the cable (I paid $5), that would be cool, if not, and you're the only person interested, well, I still wouldn't be adverse to just handing the thing out. Kind regards, Sean -- Sean Caron http://www.diablonet.net scaron@engin.umich.edu root@diablonet.net From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Jan 31 20:36:38 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: Nuclear Data 66? Message-ID: I have seen these before. We got Nuclear Data stuff from Hanford. It is used as a computer that ran process instrumentation in the Nuclear Power Plant/Research s. Usually they were 11/03s, sometimes upgraded to 11/23s, in a small Qbus cage. Often there are a lot of custom cards for the process instrumentation. What cards are in it, or did you mention and I just miss it. Things to look for are EPROM cards. Does it boot? What is the floppy drive hooked up to? Often there are custom display cards. Sometimes A/D & D/A cards. Did you check to see if it glows in the dark? :-) Any idea where it originally came from? Paxton Astoria, OR From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jan 31 21:56:38 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: Computer Museum of America on Tuesday night's PBS NOVA (fwd) In-Reply-To: from Chris at "Jan 31, 2 04:59:41 pm" Message-ID: <200202010356.TAA10002@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Same goes with DivX, although at least there, the Mac isn't as left out > (it tends to be a little behind the curve of DivX versions, but so far, I > have been able to play most DivX movies). > > Personally, I am up in the air about DivX on the Mac. It makes VERY nice > quality videos, in a very small size, but at least in my playing, lacks > the ability to scrub thru the video. That means I can fast forward, but > only blindly (I can move the playback marker forward, but the video will > not update as I do, so it is random hunt and peck). This is pretty much my experience as well. The video quality is quite nice, but seek is crummy and very high-bandwith playback is also rather stuttery. On a G3/500 with hardware-accelerated QuickTime this is not excusable. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- TODAY'S DUMB TRUE HEADLINE: Enfield Couple Slain; Police Suspect Homicide -- From mhstein at canada.com Thu Jan 31 21:19:30 2002 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: 80 col Apple ][ Message-ID: <01C1AAA5.63CBA220@mse-d03> Got my answer in the meantime (thanks, Frank); forgot about the digest delay, sorry. mike --- > Still no reply to my question about 80 cols on an Apple][ though; surely > there's somebody out there who has an answer? From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 31 21:50:53 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: 80 col Apple ][ References: <01C1AAA5.63CBA220@mse-d03> Message-ID: <003a01c1aad3$a5d055c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> So, did that fix your problem? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "M H Stein" To: "'ClassicComputers'" Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 8:19 PM Subject: 80 col Apple ][ > Got my answer in the meantime (thanks, Frank); > forgot about the digest delay, sorry. > > mike > --- > > Still no reply to my question about 80 cols on an Apple][ though; surely > > there's somebody out there who has an answer? > > > From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jan 31 21:24:09 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: 11/03 v 11/23 In-Reply-To: 11/03 v 11/23 (John Allain) References: <01C1AA95.38F03580@mse-d03> <002901c1aacb$6da509a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <15450.2649.225222.445003@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 31, John Allain wrote: > I am thinking of getting a hacked LSI-11 > machine that somebody has. It has the chip > in it and an 18 bit bus (he thinks). Is it > then an '03, because of the smaller bus, or > is there some other criteron? > I tried two related DEC books (Microcomputer > Processors, Micro/PDP Handbook), one book is > 16 bit, the other 22, nothing on 18 so perhaps > my source is wrong? Nono...The 11/23 does 22-bit addressing, except for the very early revs of the KDF11-A board on which only 18 address lines were used. The 11/03 has 16 bit addressing only. When you say "the chip"...what chip are you talking about? If it has a 40-pin DIP with two square chip carriers on it, that's an F11...making it a pdp11/23. If it has a row of "ordinary" 40-pin chips, then it's a pdp11/03. Let us know what you find... -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 31 21:49:51 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: Looking for a WD 1001 55 Disk controller References: <01C1AA8F.489BCD60@mse-d03> Message-ID: <003201c1aad3$810cb6c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The WD 1001-55 (the "BIG" version) had four data cable connectors, IIRC. In fact, it didn't look very different from the 1000-55 at all. Both of those boards used the 8X300/305 (depending on version) and the WD1100 chipset. I had the datasheet for that board in my hands less than two hours ago, but don't now remember where ... another senior moment, I guess. The small versions (1000-05, etc) used the WD1010 chip and a couple of others. They do seem to be pretty much interchangeable, though. My own WD 1000-55 board had a 50-pin connector rather than a 40-pin host connector. The extra signals were just ground and power, though. The ones I've kept only have the 40-pin host connector, which makes them all compatible at the interface. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "M H Stein" To: "'ClassicComputers'" Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 4:25 PM Subject: Looking for a WD 1001 55 Disk controller > In case it's useful, I have a controller card out of an external > dual HD that sounds very similar, but made by Quality Computer > Services in Metuchen, NJ. > > It has an N8X300I and a bunch of WD1100V series chips, all > socketed, and a 40 pin interface connector (as well as the > three HD connectors of course). > > mike > > ------Original Message------- > > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 20:01:43 -0700 > From: "Richard Erlacher" > Subject: Re: Looking for a WD 1001 55 Disk controller > > The WD1001 is a board using the WD 1100 chipset supported with an > 8x300/305-type microcontroller. > > Dick > > From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Jan 31 21:54:15 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: New Buy & VMS help wanted In-Reply-To: <15449.59057.154127.351283@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > On January 31, Pat Finnegan wrote: > > Specs: 8 line serial card (forgot to look at the model #), TK-50 > > controller (didn't grab the drive, but might do that tomorrow..), 8-plane > > framebuffer, 2x8M QBus memory cards, 2x760M ST-506 interface hard drives, > > DELQA ethernet, KA650-B cpu card, (and that's about all I think...) > > > > pics at http://purdueriots.com/imgs/vs3200-back-lores.jpg > > and http://purdueriots.com/imgs/vs3200-front-lores.jpg > > Wow, nice machine! :-) The ST506 MFM interface maxes out at > 160MB...those are probably ESDI drives. And if they are, I'm > jealous. :-) Could be ESDI... the 'boot monitor' (excuse my lack of knowledge of proper terms) calls them RA81's (?!?!?). The connectors look like ST-506, which is why I called them that. I didn't bother looking up that board when I 'ripped' it apart (very carefully) for cleaning. Thanks to Gordon, I'm gonna be getting a QT13 pertec controller, which will replace the TK50 controller most likely. Ahhh, 9 track tapes. :) I now have reset the SYSTEM password, and am about to embark on the journey of re-learning VMS. Ahh, the memories of high-school come filtering back in... Any idea if I could put another QBUS KA650 card in here and make it dual-cpu? I'm doubtful, but it'd be cool to try I think. Thanks all for the help. -- Pat From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jan 31 22:04:37 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: New Buy & VMS help wanted In-Reply-To: Re: New Buy & VMS help wanted (Pat Finnegan) References: <15449.59057.154127.351283@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15450.5077.404003.63049@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 31, Pat Finnegan wrote: > > Wow, nice machine! :-) The ST506 MFM interface maxes out at > > 160MB...those are probably ESDI drives. And if they are, I'm > > jealous. :-) > > Could be ESDI... the 'boot monitor' (excuse my lack of knowledge of proper > terms) calls them RA81's (?!?!?). The connectors look like ST-506, which > is why I called them that. I didn't bother looking up that board when I > 'ripped' it apart (very carefully) for cleaning. Thanks to Gordon, I'm > gonna be getting a QT13 pertec controller, which will replace the TK50 > controller most likely. Ahhh, 9 track tapes. :) SWEET, an ESDI controller that does MSCP. Very nice. :-) > Any idea if I could put another QBUS KA650 card in here and make it > dual-cpu? I'm doubtful, but it'd be cool to try I think. Nope. These are uniprocessor machines. I believe there was a hack long ago that allowed the use of two KA630 boards in a system, but it didn't go very far, and I don't think it's possible with the KA650. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jan 31 22:20:35 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: New Buy & VMS help wanted In-Reply-To: from "Dave McGuire" at Jan 31, 2002 11:04:37 PM Message-ID: <200202010420.g114KZu09646@shell1.aracnet.com> > SWEET, an ESDI controller that does MSCP. Very nice. :-) What's even nicer is that he's got fairly big ESDI disks from the sounds of things. The biggest I've found is 300MB, but since I'm not using ESDI any more I don't mind. Zane From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 31 21:54:30 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: Video provisions on S-100 frames (was Re: 80 col Apple ][) References: Message-ID: <005601c1aad4$27204720$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> That's a system I've never seen. do you have a picture? What sort of video (pixel format) did it produce? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Beaudry" To: Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 7:33 PM Subject: RE: Video provisions on S-100 frames (was Re: 80 col Apple ][) > >Additionally, I've actually never seen a 3rd-party S-100 box that made >any > >provision for video signal to an external monitor at all. > > I've tried to resist, but.... > > I had an Icom Attache, made by Pertec. It was basically an Altair 8800bt > (Turnkey), with an integrated keyboard and video capabilities. It was in a > nice case, kinda like a large Apple II case (which it was desinged to > compete against). Composite video output used a BNC connector. > > Rich B. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 31 22:31:57 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: S/36Doc (skating on thin ice) Message-ID: For what its worth, I have a full set of S/38 (5381) maintenance manuals, etc... Dumpster dived them one night. Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From brian at sigh.mse.jhu.edu Thu Jan 31 22:45:06 2002 From: brian at sigh.mse.jhu.edu (Brian Harrington) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: so, can you run UNIX on a PDP11/03 or not? In-Reply-To: <3C58DB6F.2080403@aurora.regenstrief.org> References: <3C58DB6F.2080403@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <35208998.1012520706@[0.0.0.0]> --On Thursday, January 31, 2002 12:51 AM -0500 Gunther Schadow wrote: > I hear mixed messages about that. Is there someone who knows, > and not only if any, but also which version of UNIX would run? > I want to give it a shot. You can. There was LSX (described in BSTJ, July 78) and and people also got MiniUnix (a V6 variant that didn't need an MMU) to run on the LSI-11. MiniUnix has the advantage of already being in the PUPS archive, and while I haven't tried it, I have a book (Laboratory Minicomputing by John R. Bourne) with a two page appendix describing the necessary mods. If you send me your address, I'll mail you a copy. -- Brian -- Brian Harrington Milton S. Eisenhower Library The Johns Hopkins University brian@sigh.mse.jhu.edu From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 31 22:47:41 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: S/370 docs (was: Re: IBM big iron.) Message-ID: Now why can't anyone ever say "Hey, I have 4381, 3380, and 3880 docs to get rid of... Want em?" It sucks owning what is essentially 3000+ pounds worth of paperweights. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jan 31 23:00:39 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: Small UNIX boxes (was RE: Netscape (was Re: PayPal = payola?)) References: Message-ID: <3C5A20F7.7BB87091@internet1.net> Late 95, right? How does one go about installing Unix? What distribution do you use? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Sellam Ismail wrote: > I got mine when it first came out when I started going back to school a > few years back. I was the envy of the class ;) > > I think I'll fire mine up for old times sake and see about putting Unix on > it. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Wed Jan 30 10:39:44 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: A Special Announcement From Dish Network and the Armor Securi ty Corporation Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021AC0@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Gene Buckle [mailto:geneb@deltasoft.com] > Sent: 30 January 2002 16:14 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: A Special Announcement From Dish Network and the Armor > Security Corporation > > > Did this joker susbscribe to the list, spam it and then un-sub? > Not sure - I got it in my works mailbox today and this address doesn't get used for anything outside work apart from this list. > Which in turn will verify that your address is indeed valid and your > incoming spam rate will rise by at least 2 orders of > magnitude after they > sell your address to a few thousand more spammers. That's why I never reply to 'em :) a From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Wed Jan 30 10:41:34 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021AC1@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] > Sent: 29 January 2002 15:51 > To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' > Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) > > Not really, I'd need a 120V version. Do you happen to know > what the output > voltage(s) are? I haven't even looked at the power connector > on the 1520 I > have. I'm guessing it uses a Din or coaxial power connector > like most of > the Commodore or Atari gear had. Having seen Tony's reply about a built-in PSU I'm not sure about both of mine now! One I've got easy access to but the other broken one is in storage.... I'll have to check now :) a From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Wed Jan 30 10:43:32 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021AC2@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com] > Sent: 29 January 2002 14:15 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) > > "tatty polys"? It sounds British, but I have no idea what it is. Someone else has already answered this, but from my point of view it means battered packaging. (or "ebay mint") > I've just been trying to locate replacement gears for my 1520 - So > far, my measurements have yielded the following... Which is why I started breaking this one for spares in the first place since the guy asking wanted a few spares from the printer. a From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Wed Jan 30 10:45:39 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021AC3@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Sent: 29 January 2002 20:08 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: 1520 plotter (was RE: Your VIC-20 is worth $300!!! W@W!) > > Let me see if I get this. Somebody is stripping a useable (or > at least > repairable) plotter becsue the packing box is falling apart??? Calm down Tony :) I'm not stripping it because the box is tatty; I'm stripping it because it's a) bust and b) more use to someone else as spares than it is for me since I've already got 2 in the museum and don't need a 3rd broken one... a From vcf at vintage.org Thu Jan 31 02:59:17 2002 From: vcf at vintage.org (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:29 2005 Subject: Computer Museum of America on Tuesday night's PBS NOVA (fwd) Message-ID: FYI... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:46:19 -0800 From: David Weil Subject: Computer Museum of America on Tuesday night's PBS NOVA Last April, a film crew from Boston came to Computer Museum of America at Coleman College to film the staff operating several machines in the Museum collection. See the results this coming TUESDAY night on PBS NOVA at 8pm. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rhblakeman at kih.net Tue Jan 29 07:42:10 2002 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:17:30 2005 Subject: HP JetDirect for Apple?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: What jetdirect cards are you looking for - in other words for which HP printers? I work in these things all the time and come across sources of various ones from time to time. Also which ethernet - 10baseT, 10/100? With BNC or without? => -----Original Message----- => From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org => [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tothwolf => Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 11:31 PM => To: Classic Computers => Subject: Re: HP JetDirect for Apple?? => => => On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: => => > Who was looking for this? Toth? => => Nope, I've got several myself. I'd like to find some JetDirect ethernet => cards tho. => => -Toth => => From donm at cts.com Tue Jan 1 00:18:51 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:20:59 2005 Subject: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > >Then I would suggest you're working with engineers who are not > > > particularly knowledgable about practical electronics. If they're (say) > > > mechanical engineers or civil engineers, then no problem. If they claim > > > to tbe electronic engineers I'd probably dispute that claim. > > > > I agree, last year they couldn't even build a set of LED Christmas tree lights > > without blowing them up, never heard of constant current drive !!! I'm not > > Do you own a suitably large LART? > I would not trust a 'software engineer' who couldn't actually write a > working program, an 'electronic engineer' who couldn't design a circuit, > make the PCB and solder it up, or a 'mechanical engineer; who couldn't make > a simple heat engine (or similar). You may argue that much of engineering > these days is not about making things, and that engineers rarely need > these skills (that is a separate rant). But unless you understand the > basics, and the practical side of the subject, then IMHO you are not > going to be much of an engineer. I quite agree, Tony. During my pre-senior highschool year summer vacation I was afforded the opportunity to work in the model shop of the local Westinghouse plant. During that summer, I learned to use an engine lathe, shaper, milling machine, and both gas and arc welding equipment. I do not mean to imply that I was - or even thought I was - a journeyman machinist after that exposure, but I certainly learned some useful skills and a hell of a lot about manufacturability. I also learned that a drill press is one of the most subtly dangerous machines in a shop. Interest and curiousity are the major prerequisites for being a successful technician or engineer, IMHO. - don > -tony > > From donm at cts.com Tue Jan 1 00:41:07 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:21:04 2005 Subject: Nomenclature (was: NEXT Color Printer find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Chris wrote: > >If WE use the wrong term > >amongst ourselves, we'll certainly never show others that there's benefit in > >calling it a crescent wrench when, to some folks, "the silver-colored > >thingie," would do. > > But, given the arguments that have been going on, you shouldn't call it a > Crescent wrench either. That is the name of the manufacturer of a > particular kind of wrench, and although generally accepted as meaning an > "adjustable wrench" is not any more technically correct than the > "Centronics" connector's name. Chris, I suggest that you do not have all of the relevant facts. The wrench carries that name because Crescent Tools were the original developer and manufacturer of it. That the name is used generically for all adjustable wrenches of that design is a tribute to its popularity and usefulness. Much the same as we speak of `xeroxing' copies. Centronics did not invent the Blue Ribbon connector. Amphenol did. Centronics merely found a useful application that became the standard parallel connector on printers (and on early computers - pre IBM). Not quite the same accomplishment. - don > If you ask some mechanics for a crescent wrench, you might get locking > pliers... ones that are commonly called a "Vise Grip", which is ALSO > technically incorrect for the same reason Crescent is wrong. > > > But then, for the question of the century... if you strictly adhere to > calling an item by its name, and NOT by the commonly used term, which in > many cases is the manufacturer's or common usage name... what should you > call a Yo-Yo? (just seeing how many people know the answer to this one) > > -chris > > > >