From fernande at internet1.net Sun Dec 1 00:36:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:15 2005 Subject: Free/Sale software, hardware, DEC, PC, A2 Message-ID: <3DE9AD43.8030000@internet1.net> Free plus shipping: - Moon Patrol for the IBM PC in box - Electronics Arts Chessmaster 2000 for the Apple // series - Sublogic Flight Simulater II for the Apple // series - Magic Windows //e some non-original disks, with manual - AC 120mm 10 blade fan (loud and vibrates a bit too much for solid mounting I think, real nice fan though) Forsale, plus shipping: - Unopened NIB Adaptec SCSI channel AHA-1640 Microchannel (MCA) adapter $10 - 2 fan trays for the R400X DEC expansion chassis with fans $15 for both - SCO Open Desktop 2.0.0 on Qic tape with license certificate $5 Please reply off list Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Dec 1 00:42:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:16 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? In-Reply-To: References: <3DE809DC.18493.6F4BC89@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021130222102.009eb9c0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> For me it boils down to, I hate to toss anything, but I have a whole lot of weird stuff that I personally have no particular interest in. That is the first segment that is going to go, along with the stuff that actually has some value, and anything broken without an obvious repair path. What to keep, maybe... Apple II, IIe, II+, a clone, a few IIgs and some IIe cards for mac. Macs 128k, 512k, plus, portable (a few), SE/30 (a few), MacTV, a few mid range machines, a pile of IIfx, a few Starmaxes, but not sure about stuff in between. PC 5150 (a few), XT, a few portables, a few 286/386 curiousities, a few 486 workers, one each for each class of machine up to new. plus my 9595 collection Misc a few HP boxes from 400 apollo to maybe decent PArisc, Not sure Game consoles, parts, books From geoffr at zipcon.net Sun Dec 1 01:09:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (geoffr@zipcon.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:16 2005 Subject: Intel RMX 86/330 system Re: 8\" Hard drive on PC References: <3.0.6.16.20021130195339.4ea7a2a8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3de9b6442cd111.84039571@zipcon.net> > At 03:45 PM 11/30/02 +1100, you wrote: > Holy Shit! I just scrapped four of those things. I bought them (minus hard drives :-( but could never find any info, docs or software for them so I finally gave up and stripped them and saved the cards for my other Multibus systems. Sounds like you have the parts he needs to get his system going again :) From geoffr at zipcon.net Sun Dec 1 01:11:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (geoffr@zipcon.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:16 2005 Subject: Intel RMX 86/330 system Re: 8\" Hard drive on PC References: <3.0.6.16.20021130195339.4ea7a2a8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3de9b68d21cd35.58247832@zipcon.net> > At 03:45 PM 11/30/02 +1100, you wrote: > Holy Shit! I just scrapped four of those things. I bought them (minus hard drives :-( but could never find any info, docs or software for them so I finally gave up and stripped them and saved the cards for my other Multibus systems. Sounds like you have the parts he needs to get his system going again :) From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Dec 1 01:31:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:16 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? In-Reply-To: References: <3DE809DC.18493.6F4BC89@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021130233117.009f5300@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 01:56 PM 11/30/02 -0800, you wrote: > >interests which I might focus on as an old fart. Likely on E-Pay > >because we're a notoriously cheap (or poor) lot. > >On a serious note, is eBay even worth the effort when it comes to thinning >out a collection? Maries 1 cent CD auctions, this outfit goes to all the local used CD places and buys everything that isn't selling, and every night they put 600 CDs on ebay with an opening bid of 1 cent. Bottom line other than a dedicated collector list like this one, ebay is the best shot at getting rid of items. From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Dec 1 02:12:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:16 2005 Subject: 8' Hard drive on PC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3936.68.64.124.83.1038730415.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I have an old Intel RMX Sys86/330 system (white cabinet)which I'd got > working a few years back, but has fallen over again. > > All I'm really interested in is getting the data (mostly ASM source)on > the hard drive onto a PC. I also have boxes full (heaps!) of 8" > floppies for this system that I'd like to get the data off and over to > a PC. > > What I'd like to be able to do is connect my 8" HDD to a PC and D/L all > the data directly - likewise with the 8" FDD. Am I wasting my time, or > is this possible? Making interfaces / electronics is no problem, and I > have all the gear like CRO, logic probe, etc. To read those diskettes, get an FDADAP card from Dbit, www.dbit.com. That will let you cable up the 8" drive to the floppy controller in your PC. The hard drive is *much* more problematic. There isn't any way to hook it up to any sort of normal PC hard disk controller. Note that a PC disk controller can NOT read double-density floppies from Intel development systems (Series II/III MDS, or MDS-800). The double density format Intel used on their development systems is not MFM, but rather M2FM. Normal floppy controllers can't read it. Best regards, Eric From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Dec 1 07:27:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:16 2005 Subject: Intel RMX 86/330 system Re: 8\" Hard drive on PC In-Reply-To: <3de9b6442cd111.84039571@zipcon.net> References: <3.0.6.16.20021130195339.4ea7a2a8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021201083243.26b792d8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:12 PM 11/30/02 -800, you wrote: >> At 03:45 PM 11/30/02 +1100, you wrote: > >> Holy Shit! I just scrapped four of those things. I bought them (minus hard drives :-( but could never find any info, docs or software for them so I finally gave up and stripped them and saved the cards for my other Multibus systems. > >Sounds like you have the parts he needs to get his system going again :) > > Very possibly. One problem with these is that they have tons of jumpers on them and I have absolutely no docs for them. That's only one of the reasons that I gave up on the computers. Joe From f.heite at hccnet.nl Sun Dec 1 07:43:02 2002 From: f.heite at hccnet.nl (Freek Heite) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:16 2005 Subject: XT Clone with a bus board? Message-ID: <200212011344.OAA07764@smtp.hccnet.nl> >I ran across an old XT clone with bus board in it instead of a true >motherboard. I have never seen an IBM PC compatible computer like this >before. Is this common? The first 286 and 386 systems of the Dutch manufacturer Tulip were built with this design (resp. AT Compact and AT 386). In the AT 386 the processor was on one board, and the memory on another. They had special connectors at the top side of the boards to connect the CPU board to the (one or two) memory boards. Freek. From gil at vauxelectronics.com Sun Dec 1 08:05:00 2002 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:16 2005 Subject: The internet 10 years ago Message-ID: <3.0.32.20021201071045.0088a3d0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> 10 years ago, I was at Cray Research. We did trade shows over the internet (might have been ARPA back then). Show booths had 3D SGI workstations, connected to the net by T1 links. Simulations ran in parallel -- visualization on the workstation, and number-crunching on the big iron at Cray (MN/WI). Pretty cool for the time. Run a remote car-crash/fluid-flow/electromagnetic/... simulation on the cray (which ran a flavor of unix), then see the results moments later over the net. gil >Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 10:34:02 -0800 (PST) >From: Ethan Dicks >Subject: The internet 10 years ago (was Re: Selling it off. What would you keep ?) >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > >--- Peter Turnbull wrote: >> On Nov 30, 17:57, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >> > > > I just wish the internet was around 10 years ago. >> > > >> > > Fortunately, it was. >> > Well, yes, but not everywhere, and _certainly_ not for everyone. >> >> By the late '80's it covered most of Western Europe and the States >> including non-academic sites. CIX (Compulink Information Exchange) was >> founded in 1987, and Demon Internet in June 1992, both offering public >> services in the UK. Demon charged UKP10/month for dialup access. > >10 years ago, I was doing Usenet and email through my Amiga (with two >ST225s and a PC-XT disk controller!) with UUCP. I couldn't do ftp >and telnet and cool stuff like that, but I could at least get a few >newsgroups like comp.sources.amiga and rec.humor.funny delivered to my >door. > >2400 bps, 20 MB news spool! Those were the days. Not. > >-ethan ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Sun Dec 1 08:53:11 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:16 2005 Subject: DSSI cable needed Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AFB8@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >Oops-- You're right, of course. Can't wait to get 'em spinning... >Can the OpenVMS page file (or whatever it's called) span disks? No, but you can create multiple page files (up to 4 IIRC) so you can spread stuff around that way. Antonio From dogas at bellsouth.net Sun Dec 1 09:12:00 2002 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Hazel is home! References: <3.0.6.16.20021130192222.528fbbd6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000901c2994b$3d1309d0$1219d7d1@DOMAIN> My Altair collection has just gone through the roof! Several months ago I posted some pictures of an Altair setup with the MITS Pertec harddisk and MITS harddisk controller once I picked up its trail. After much deal hacking and bitchy whining, its mine! I made a webpage at http://dogas.freecyberzone.com/Hazel.htm Check out its 8x300 based MITS HD Controller. And just for tipping the cosmic luck balance beam so severely as above, I'm having to pay elsewhere with yet another forced move of the computer collection. I'm loosing my storage space at my nephews home. So, is anyone near enough to Brunswick Georgia (zip 31520) for some serious rescue/trading [in person]? list avaiable at http://dogas.freecyberzone.com/csale.htm Cheers - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From allain at panix.com Sun Dec 1 09:43:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Hazel is home! References: <3.0.6.16.20021130192222.528fbbd6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <000901c2994b$3d1309d0$1219d7d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <006b01c29950$98590740$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > list avaiable at http://dogas.freecyberzone.com/csale.htm There must be some mistake. There must be over _400_ systems on that page... that can't be right? John A. I'm glad you're taking decisive action now anyway. From jim at jkearney.com Sun Dec 1 09:51:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: XT Clone with a bus board? References: <200212010338.TAA03822@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <0da701c29951$a8296100$1001090a@xpace.net> >From: "Cameron Kaiser" > Actually, I still see some Computerlands out here (there's one in Redlands), > but I don't know if it's the "real" Computerland, or just a company that > bought the trademark. It *is* the right logo. Seeing as how you're in San Diego, I think they had a store in Mira Mesa near University Town Center. Apparently Computerland was a franchise, so some of them may well still be operating with the same name and logo after the franchiser collapsed. I found this interesting nugget from Forbes: "Bill Millard, chief executive of IMSAI and later of ComputerLand, understood that new rules of management would be needed for a new industry. He foresaw that Imsai, one of the first companies to build low-cost microcomputers, would be a new kind of company - one where nobody was inhibited by rank, where emotion counted for as much as intellect, and where employees would give the fabled 110% because they wanted to, not because they were whipped into a frenzy by superiors. Unfortunately, what came to pass was the opposite. Millard was a near-fanatical devotee of Werner Erhard's est (Erhard Seminar Training), frequently called a cult of postmodern psychology. With its unrelenting emphasis on self-actualization, est - and therefore Imsai - was a case study in how to take good ideas and make them hell to live with. Imsai ended up as a company in which employees worked extremely long hours but were afraid to speak up, the slightest infraction was met by harsh discipline, and top executives lived and acted like royalty while the grunts received crumbs. Inequities were so vast that the books were repeatedly cooked to conceal them. Imsai, which built decent computers, went down in flames because no company - whatever its success - could overcome such an idiosyncratic management style. The expirations of Imsai and later ComputerLand were so complex and explosive that Millard remained tangled in litigation for years. " From dogas at bellsouth.net Sun Dec 1 10:02:00 2002 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Hazel is home! References: <3.0.6.16.20021130192222.528fbbd6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <000901c2994b$3d1309d0$1219d7d1@DOMAIN> <006b01c29950$98590740$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <004701c29952$43692f10$1219d7d1@DOMAIN> From: John Allain > > list avaiable at http://dogas.freecyberzone.com/csale.htm > > There must be some mistake. There must be over _400_ systems > on that page... that can't be right? > I know. I missed listing alot, and I am keeping *some* ... ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From mtapley at swri.edu Sun Dec 1 10:04:01 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Cybiko (was Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?) In-Reply-To: References: <002101c297c8$dfeb7a40$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: >ultra-cool features, such as ^^^^^^^^^^ >setting up your profile and the profile of a romantic interest so that >when two Cybiko's that have matching profiles come within proximity of >each other they set off alarm bells. Ahh,.... I can envision circles in which that would not be classed as "ultra-cool". - Mark From mtapley at swri.edu Sun Dec 1 10:05:23 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Nov 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > I am at a point where I am thinking about divesting myself of the > majority of my computer collection. Good luck! I'm not aware of anyone successfully doing this. But in weaker moments, I've considered it. Here's my choice(s) 1) Find a worthy recipient willing to take it *all*. Keep a modern machine only, make a clean break. Farewell. 2) Pick the minimum combination of machines that will do the things you *need* to do, then get rid of the rest. This may default to option 1). (It wouldn't in my case - the Mac Plus still has many games I consider indispensable, and the NeXT is my only Mathematica platform (and is thus heavily used at work). But I couldn't justify keeping my Rainbow, for example.) 3) Pick the minimum combination of machines that'll still do all or most of the things your current collection will do. Rainbow is good here, because it'll do both CP/M and DOS; Could argue that a NeXT with SoftWindows and Daydream covers three operating systems (Mac, Win, Unix) as well as NeXTStep. For Macs, a II and a G4, will probably run all of your Mac software, etc. 4) Take two aspirin and wait for the aberration (getting out of classic collecting) to pass. You'll feel horrible if you give it all away and then start trying to re-assemble a collection. - Mark From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Dec 1 10:45:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Cybiko (was Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?) In-Reply-To: from Mark Tapley at "Nov 30, 2 09:35:58 am" Message-ID: <200212011656.IAA05690@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >ultra-cool features, such as > ^^^^^^^^^^ > >setting up your profile and the profile of a romantic interest so that > >when two Cybiko's that have matching profiles come within proximity of > >each other they set off alarm bells. > > Ahh,.... I can envision circles in which that would not be classed as > "ultra-cool". The nice thing about that is, if the MOTAS really does own a Cybiko set up like this, he/she must consider it 'ultra-cool' be default ... no problem ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- In independent studies, research was found to cause cancer in rats. -------- From ernestls at attbi.com Sun Dec 1 11:09:00 2002 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Mark Tapley > 4) Take two aspirin and wait for the aberration (getting out of classic > collecting) to pass. You'll feel horrible if you give it all away and then > start trying to re-assemble a collection. Yup. This is my greatest fear in letting go of my systems. However, I have found new homes for quite a bit of my stuff and so far, I haven't been sorry yet. Of course, I haven't cut down to the bone yet so it's hard to say how I might feel if I were to let go of particular systems. For instance, I spent several years looking for a Micro SCI Havac before I found one, and it's currently neatly packed away in storage. Would I kick myself later on if I were to let go of it now? I don't know, and that's what make breaking the bonds hard. What are the odds that I would ever find some of my clones again, should I ever decide to rebuild my collection? Slim in many cases, and next to impossible in others. I just don't know if I'm fully ready yet even though I know that letting go is probably the right thing to do. On the topic of ebay, I just sold seven bits of junk on ebay for 288.00 USD. These were items that various people dumped on my doorstep because they just wanted to get rid of them. I had duplicates of almost everything there, so I spent ten minutes posting the ads, made $288.00, and several folks in Japan are very happy to have bought items that they were excited to find. In my opinion, ebay is the best thing to happen for the hobby of collecting, if for no other reason than because it gives people an incentive to sell items that they might otherwise have simply thrown away. E. From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Dec 1 11:34:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: XT Clone with a bus board? In-Reply-To: <3DE941F6.4040007@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Nov 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Hmm, my Zenith XT wasn't as wide as an IBM XT but was taller. I > wouldn't compare it to an AT, although the later 386 Zeniths I saw had a > csse comparable in size to IBM AT. It was the later 386's that were > supposed to be able to fall off of a moving truck, as I was told. > > My Zenith XT has 3 drive bays, one on top of the other. I can't tell if > Sarks computer does or not. Never mind, you're right. I've only seen one with a 'narrow but tall' case before, and it was laying in pieces at the time. > > > > Of course, there are also newer machines with passive backplanes, I think > > JDR microdevices has sold 'the parts' for ISA and PCI (PIC/MG?) passive > > backplane machines. > > Do you mean those rack mount multiple computers in one case type things? No, just a single ISA or PCI backplane (or both) that had a single processor card and several slots for I/O cards. I'm not sure if JDR still carries the, I haven't seen their catalog in at least 5 years. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From jss at subatomix.com Sun Dec 1 11:38:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? In-Reply-To: <3DE8BA51.4070009@charter.net> References: <3DE8BA51.4070009@charter.net> Message-ID: <44157818420.20021201113932@subatomix.com> On Saturday, November 30, 2002, James Rice wrote: > I think my wife says prayers of thanks each day, that I don't like or > collect big iron or mini's. My girlfriend of ~5 months didn't know me when I didn't collect. Thankfully, she is used to my house full of classiccmp stuff, having never seen it with other contents. There's one thing I won't have to worry about. -- Jeffrey Sharp From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Dec 1 11:41:04 2002 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Beehive Terminal Manuals In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021130184453.03101050@enigma> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021130184453.03101050@enigma> Message-ID: <200212010942570155.01811F06@192.168.42.129> Hi, Dan & CC crew, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 30-Nov-02 at 18:51 Dan Veeneman wrote: >While looking for old floppy disks I came across a couple >of manuals: > >Reference Manual for Beehive Terminals, Models I, II and III (1972) > >and > >Operator Manual OCLC Model 100 Computer Terminal (1974) >I'd also be interested in hearing from anyone who might have >a Beehive terminal, since they look pretty interesting (if you >have an interest in old computer terminals, as I do). Holy Cow... My first real job in the computer/datacomm field was as a tech in Western Union's old field service division in Oakland, CA. We had the contract to install and maintain the Beehive terminals for OCLC (Ohio College Library Catalog). I don't have any of the terminals, but I remember them pretty well. One thing that stood out on them was that their keytops were always off-white or bright yellow. I never saw one with dark keytops. Physically speaking, the Beehive terminals chosen by OCLC (I remember the 105 in particular) were built like the proverbial tank. I would put them nearly equal to the old DEC VT52's and 55's for sheer durability. OCLC itself was an early experiment in a centralized book cataloging system that any library could sign up to use. If I recall correctly (bear with me... its been 26 years!), the group leased computer storage space and time out to member libraries who either lacked sufficient computer resources to do a local catalog, or who simply didn't have any computer resources available. Said libraries were permitted to store their catalogs on the OCLC system, and they could (if they wished) receive periodic printed reports which could then be made available to, say, the reference desk. Somewhere in the cobweb department of my memory resides some of the lookup commands for the old system. Doubt I could recall them outside of hypnosis, though. Anybody got a big shiny pocket watch and a mirror? ;-) Keep the peace(es). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Dec 1 11:44:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Hazel is home! In-Reply-To: <000901c2994b$3d1309d0$1219d7d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Dec 2002, Mike wrote: > My Altair collection has just gone through the roof! Several months ago I > posted some pictures of an Altair setup with the MITS Pertec harddisk and > MITS harddisk controller once I picked up its trail. After much deal > hacking and bitchy whining, its mine! > > I made a webpage at http://dogas.freecyberzone.com/Hazel.htm Check out its > 8x300 based MITS HD Controller. Nice page! Now I wish I spent some time documenting my systems that much... > And just for tipping the cosmic luck balance beam so severely as above, I'm > having to pay elsewhere with yet another forced move of the computer > collection. I'm loosing my storage space at my nephews home. So, is anyone > near enough to Brunswick Georgia (zip 31520) for some serious rescue/trading > [in person]? list avaiable at http://dogas.freecyberzone.com/csale.htm Gah. You've got system's I've really wanted for quite a while now, but there's no way I'll be able to get down to Georgia to pick them up. And of course, it'd probably be difficult at best to ship anything moderately big. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From foo at siconic.com Sun Dec 1 11:47:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Beehive Terminal Manuals In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021130184453.03101050@enigma> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Nov 2002, Dan Veeneman wrote: > While looking for old floppy disks I came across a couple > of manuals: > > Reference Manual for Beehive Terminals, Models I, II and III (1972) > > and > > Operator Manual OCLC Model 100 Computer Terminal (1974) > > If anyone needs any information from either of these manuals, > drop me a line off-list. > > I'd also be interested in hearing from anyone who might have > a Beehive terminal, since they look pretty interesting (if you > have an interest in old computer terminals, as I do). I have a couple Beehive terminals. One is a behemoth from the early 70s. The keyboard includes a joystick. I believe it may have been used in some medical application. I also have a manual for it. I can't remember off-hand what other Beehive terminal I have. I have always had an interest in old computer terminals. Some of them are way cool. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From univac2 at earthlink.net Sun Dec 1 11:50:01 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? In-Reply-To: <44157818420.20021201113932@subatomix.com> Message-ID: on 12/1/02 11:39 AM, Jeffrey Sharp at jss@subatomix.com wrote: > On Saturday, November 30, 2002, James Rice wrote: >> I think my wife says prayers of thanks each day, that I don't like or >> collect big iron or mini's. > > My girlfriend of ~5 months didn't know me when I didn't collect. Thankfully, > she is used to my house full of classiccmp stuff, having never seen it with > other contents. There's one thing I won't have to worry about. I've met her. She can tell a VAX from a PDP-11. What more could one want? -- Owen Robertson From jss at subatomix.com Sun Dec 1 11:53:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C6BE@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C6BE@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <34158616198.20021201115250@subatomix.com> On Saturday, November 30, 2002, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > I know several people who seem to have no problem dropping furniture in > favor of Good Iron, _provided_ the iron looks or smells good enough for a > livingroom or bedroom :) [raises hand] couch: gone recliner: gone entertainment center: gone kitchen table: gone -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Sun Dec 1 11:58:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C6BF@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C6BF@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <117159032666.20021201115946@subatomix.com> On Saturday, November 30, 2002, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Usually, getting rid of the wife doesn't make a lot of room for > new machines. There _is_, however, a good chance of ending up > with more cash to spend on 'em... :) With me it worked in the opposite way. With the wife went the obstacle that was preventing me from moving stuff into the living room. Now I have a main computer room and no living room, and with all her stuff out of garage, a storage room. That's a great deal when your house is only 750 sqare feet in area. And of course, no money ... but that's another story, one that I've been griping about for several months. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Sun Dec 1 12:12:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C6C1@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C6C1@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <82159902317.20021201121416@subatomix.com> On Saturday, November 30, 2002, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > I just wish the internet was around 10 years ago. > > > > Fortunately, it was. > > Well, yes, but not everywhere, and _certainly_ not for everyone. 10 years ago, my 'internet connection' in Oklahoma was an email gateway on a college BBS with a 1-800 number, to which I'd gained access through by pretending to be someone else. Let's just say that FTP by email is not the Next Big Thing. Then a dialup ISP started up in Lawton. I paid some $/hour plus long distance charges, because everything was long distance from my little town. Various other dialup schemes were used since then. The town didn't get its own ISP until last year, after I had already moved away. It was all still very fun, though. -- Jeffrey Sharp From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Dec 1 12:16:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Hazel is home! In-Reply-To: <004701c29952$43692f10$1219d7d1@DOMAIN> References: <3.0.6.16.20021130192222.528fbbd6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <000901c2994b$3d1309d0$1219d7d1@DOMAIN> <006b01c29950$98590740$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <004701c29952$43692f10$1219d7d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <4172.68.64.124.83.1038766651.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> How quickly do you need things to disappear? Is there anything you're looking for in trade, or do you just prefer some cash? From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Dec 1 12:19:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Hazel is home! In-Reply-To: <004701c29952$43692f10$1219d7d1@DOMAIN> References: <3.0.6.16.20021130192222.528fbbd6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <000901c2994b$3d1309d0$1219d7d1@DOMAIN> <006b01c29950$98590740$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <004701c29952$43692f10$1219d7d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <4177.68.64.124.83.1038766823.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Well, I normally manage to get the address right for private replies, but now and then... Sorry! From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Dec 1 13:31:00 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Beehive Terminal Manuals In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021130184453.03101050@enigma> Message-ID: Is there a picture of a Beehive terminal on the internet somewhere? I haven't been able to find one, although I found a picture of a Micro Bee Beehive terminal. I have never seen a Beehive terminal, although I have heard about them. Maybe I'll get lucky and find one in the wild... I love old terminals. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Saturday, November 30, 2002, at 06:51 PM, Dan Veeneman wrote: > While looking for old floppy disks I came across a couple > of manuals: > > Reference Manual for Beehive Terminals, Models I, II and III (1972) > > and > > Operator Manual OCLC Model 100 Computer Terminal (1974) > > If anyone needs any information from either of these manuals, > drop me a line off-list. > > I'd also be interested in hearing from anyone who might have > a Beehive terminal, since they look pretty interesting (if you > have an interest in old computer terminals, as I do). > > > Cheers, > > Dan > http://www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html > From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Dec 1 13:55:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Hazel is home! In-Reply-To: <004701c29952$43692f10$1219d7d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <3DEA1615.29021.EF4C7D0@localhost> Now that's what I call a collection ! Compared to you I've just got a few computers around. Didn't you go thru this a couple of years ago ? Maybe we should form a support group for those of us trying to kick this addiction. :^)) " Hi, my name is Bob, and I'm a computer collecting addict" " Before I kicked my wife out in favor of a PDP11, I had my own business, a beautiful home, and the latest model SUV." Lawrence > From: John Allain > > > > list avaiable at http://dogas.freecyberzone.com/csale.htm > > > > There must be some mistake. There must be over _400_ systems > > on that page... that can't be right? > > > > I know. I missed listing alot, and I am keeping *some* ... > > ;) > - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Dec 1 13:57:00 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: What is the Q/UniBus board set? In-Reply-To: <001001c297f9$4da4ebe0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE>; from h.wolter@sympatico.ca on Fri, Nov 29, 2002 at 23:47:31 CET References: <20021129195009.K1222@MissSophie> <001001c297f9$4da4ebe0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Message-ID: <20021130093742.M1222@MissSophie> On 2002.11.29 23:47 Heinz Wolter wrote: > It looks like this might be an avionics 1553 processor or > interface/controller for unibus PDP/VAX. [...] > 1553 was typically used in military and fighter aircraft for > interconnecting INS/GPS, fly by wire, engine management, and even > flight controls. Aha. Completely useless to me but if I can get a nuclear missile or a fighter aircraft and need to hack the password, I have at least this tool. ;-) Thanks for the information. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From fernande at internet1.net Sun Dec 1 15:17:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: FS/FF More clearing out and sorting Message-ID: <3DEA7B9E.1030704@internet1.net> All items $1.00 plus shipping unless otherwise specified. -Aldus Photostlyer Special Edition 2.0 for Windows (on 3.5" floppies) -Risk World Conquest Game (like the board game) for the IBM PC, XT, AT (on 5.25" floppy with a copy on 1.44) -PW2 Unisys Multiple Port Board, has two 16C452 serial ports and 1 parallel port, with driver disk, cable, and manual -Diamond SpeedStar Pro VLB -3Com Etherlink III 3C509TP (ISA) -Gateway ISA video card with docs and drivers (5.25" HD), ATI Ultra/A, ATI 38800-1 -Digi AccelePort 16-bit ISA dual serial port board 16C650 uarts, may not be function, with docs -486 AT motherboard model 486-PVT, I think it is a FIC, 7 slots, 2 with VLB extensions, socket 3 -generic PC plastic adjustable sidestand -1/2 a check box full of XT type memory -13 CD/DVD/etc. jewl cases (the kind that break easily) -decently built 5.25" bay to 3.5" floppy converter from old Gateway 386..... much better than the little flimsy things at the computer shows. -Dual EISA ISA (takes two slot) video card from Matrox, video out is 13w3, video in is db9. Matrox doesn't know what I have...... "Impress/Ultra", doesn't match any name on there web site exactly, and doesn't match description on the "Impress". It is very impressive looking :-) I do have one lead on drivers for it, but I don't have an EISA system anymore, to try it. $5 -Teac 32x cd-rom model CD-532-E (IDE, barely used) $15 -"The Longest Day" on RCA Selectavision Video Disk (CED) (2 disk set) -"Tora Tora Tora" on RCA Selectavision Video Disk (CED) (2 disk set) -Paradise/WD 16 bit or 8 bit ISA 256K VGA card -Alaska by James A. Michener, hard cover, a bit musty smelling, but not too bad. -Compaq AGP 3DFX card -IBM XT motherboard, supposed to be last bios revison, and was purchased by me as such. $10 For pick up only: -large AT server case built by Tandy, for Grid, for the Government. This case will hold a fullsize AT MB without it being underneath any drive bays or the power supply. Power supply has temp sensor and will adjust fan speed. Many drive bays. Very Nice case, I just don't need it anymore. Originally housed a EISA bussed 486. $10 Please reply off list Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Dec 1 15:31:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: XT Clone with a bus board? In-Reply-To: References: <3DE941F6.4040007@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021201163429.4357a6d2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:38 PM 12/1/02 -0500, Pat wrote: >On Sat, 30 Nov 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > >> Hmm, my Zenith XT wasn't as wide as an IBM XT but was taller. I >> wouldn't compare it to an AT, although the later 386 Zeniths I saw had a >> csse comparable in size to IBM AT. It was the later 386's that were >> supposed to be able to fall off of a moving truck, as I was told. >> >> My Zenith XT has 3 drive bays, one on top of the other. I can't tell if >> Sarks computer does or not. > >Never mind, you're right. I've only seen one with a 'narrow but tall' >case before, and it was laying in pieces at the time. > >> > >> > Of course, there are also newer machines with passive backplanes, I think >> > JDR microdevices has sold 'the parts' for ISA and PCI (PIC/MG?) passive >> > backplane machines. >> >> Do you mean those rack mount multiple computers in one case type things? > >No, just a single ISA or PCI backplane (or both) that had a single >processor card and several slots for I/O cards. I'm not sure if JDR still >carries the, I haven't seen their catalog in at least 5 years. Yes, you could mount more than one system in those cases. I had about 30 Advantech rackmount systems that had 15(?) slot backplanes and the backplanes were divided into two sections. You could run a separate CPU and I/O cards in each section. The power supply was common as I recall. Several of these system had HP-IB cards and each computer was linked to the other one in the same case by HP-IB! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Dec 1 15:32:28 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Intel RMX 86/330 system & 380 startup questions In-Reply-To: <7F4D7808.52FAB552.0077BA5C@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021201162109.440f12a2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:35 PM 11/30/02 -0500, Paxton wrote: > >I have a Intel RMX 330 that was working last I ran it (about 1992). I also have a 380 in two cabinets that worked also. I just moved my stuff in the storage locker and ran across them. I have docs and maybe disks. I also have lots of parts for 310s. > >Any suggestions for starting up the 3450 Priam Hard drives that haven't run in 10 years. I would love to fire both the 330 and the 380 up. They are fully equiped. I think the 380 has a 80286 Multibus card in it. > >Not sure what format the floppys are. I will see if I can find the information. > >Who else in the group is into Multibus I? I am. I have two iPDSs, two MDS-800s, two MDS-235s and an intel 310. FWIW the 310 and 330 are very different machines from the 86/330. The 310/330 are white boxs that are about the a size of a PC chassis. The 86/330 is an aluminium/steel chassis that's 16" tall x 16" wide x 24" deep. The ones that I had had 8" floppy drives and 8" hard drives, the 310/330 use 5 1/4" floppy drives and have an optional 5 1/4"(?) hard drive. The 86/330 used an 8086 CPU, the 310/330 use 286s IIRC. I'm be very interested in any docs or software that you're willing to part with. I have no docs or software at all for RMX. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Dec 1 15:33:52 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Hazel is home! In-Reply-To: <000901c2994b$3d1309d0$1219d7d1@DOMAIN> References: <3.0.6.16.20021130192222.528fbbd6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021201162316.440faaea@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:06 AM 12/1/02 -0500, you wrote: > >My Altair collection has just gone through the roof! Several months ago I >posted some pictures of an Altair setup with the MITS Pertec harddisk and >MITS harddisk controller once I picked up its trail. After much deal >hacking and bitchy whining, its mine! > >I made a webpage at http://dogas.freecyberzone.com/Hazel.htm Check out its >8x300 based MITS HD Controller. > >And just for tipping the cosmic luck balance beam so severely as above, I'm >having to pay elsewhere with yet another forced move of the computer >collection. I'm loosing my storage space at my nephews home. So, is anyone >near enough to Brunswick Georgia (zip 31520) for some serious rescue/trading >[in person]? list avaiable at http://dogas.freecyberzone.com/csale.htm Sure. I'll be glad to keep that Altair for ya! :-) Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Dec 1 15:35:15 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Hazel is home! In-Reply-To: <006b01c29950$98590740$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <3.0.6.16.20021130192222.528fbbd6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <000901c2994b$3d1309d0$1219d7d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021201162708.43578cba@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:44 AM 12/1/02 -0500, you wrote: >> list avaiable at http://dogas.freecyberzone.com/csale.htm > >There must be some mistake. There must be over _400_ systems >on that page... that can't be right? > >John A. You're right, that's not right. He probably left out 1/3 of them! No, I'm not kidding! You have to see his place(s) to believe it. Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 1 16:15:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: WordStar Professional For sale In-Reply-To: <20021201022949.GA38022@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Nov 30, 2 09:29:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 397 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021201/aa00dd18/attachment.ksh From dan at ekoan.com Sun Dec 1 16:24:01 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Beehive Terminal Manuals In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021130184453.03101050@enigma> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021201172757.0454f660@enigma> At 02:33 PM 12/1/02 -0500, you wrote: >Is there a picture of a Beehive terminal on the internet somewhere? I've just scanned a page from one of the manuals and put it up at http://www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html#terminals Click on the thumbnail to see a larger scan. >I love old terminals. So do I. Cheers, Dan http://www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Dec 1 16:35:00 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Beehive Terminal Manuals In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021201172757.0454f660@enigma> Message-ID: <6E468AE4-057D-11D7-AF27-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Sunday, December 1, 2002, at 05:30 PM, Dan Veeneman wrote: > > I've just scanned a page from one of the manuals and put it up at > http://www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html#terminals > > Click on the thumbnail to see a larger scan. > Now that is a really neat looking terminal! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From glenslick at hotmail.com Sun Dec 1 17:46:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Beehive Terminal Manuals (SYM-1 Power Connector) Message-ID: From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Dec 1 19:28:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Fw: Tell your friends: Free hardware Message-ID: <001401c299a2$6f6f6c00$7d00a8c0@george> Culled from c.s.s.h... No affiliation, replys to author, yadda yadda yadda... Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "bolt thrower" Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sgi.hardware,misc.forsale.computers.workstati on Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 8:18 PM Subject: Tell your friends: Free hardware > i have a bunch of free sun, sgi, cisco, and other gear that i need to get > rid of. you have to come get it. i'm not going to reserve anything, you > show up here first, you get to take whatever you want. bring a truck -- > hell, bring two! i am in petaluma, california, 70 minutes north of san > fran, in sonoma county. i'm home in the evenings. next sunday, anything > that is left is going to the dump, so please, PLEASE come and take this > stuff away. > > * one sgi 20" monitor, granite, with cable and remote, works perfectly. i > was using it on my indigo. i am keeping my indigo boxed up for use later, > but can't really see keeping this giant monitor around. > > * one same as above with a little blur in one of the corners. i don't > know which of the two monitors it is (i am dumb and didn't mark the bad > one) and i don't have an sgi readily available to test it. come and take > your chances, or just grab both. please? > > * one sun 16" monitor with cable. had it on my ultra2. works fine. a > little small by today's standards, and just a tad on the dim side, works > great. > > * sun a1000 disk array. with three trays, a gang of 2gb disks in sleds, > some extra controller parts, some cables, and whatever else i can come up > with. it powers up. lots of drives spin and it sounds cool. that's all > i know. > > * a bunch of SPARC stuff. keyboards, mice, whatever. I have a SPARCcard > somewhere. I'm not sure if it works, but it sure looks cool. ome and > get it and hang it in your cube. you boss will give you a raise for being > such a geek. > > * some token ring and fddi stuff. concentrators and cables and nics and > what not. > > * whatever ethernet stuff i can find (little netgear type hubs, swithces, > blah blah) > > i have a whole closet full of stuff that i am cleaning out so i may post a > follow up to this message if i find more big stuff. otherwise basically > you can expect to find a large pile of crap sitting in the middle of my > living room, and you and some pals can come and get whatever you want. > the more you take the happier you'll be, i promise. if you come and take > _all_ of it, you will be destined to live a long life, and beautiful women > will want to be with you. > > its all free, but if you feel compelled to give me something in return, i > am looking for reloading equipment and 9mm and .40 S&W ammo. beer is > always good, too. > > yay! > > email me at jmw _at_ panix _dot_ com to arrange for you to come up here. > if you don't live in the bay area but know someone who does, send this to > them, ok? > > thanks. From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Dec 1 19:45:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: The internet 10 years ago In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20021201071045.0088a3d0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: > 10 years ago, I was at Cray Research. We did trade shows over the internet > (might have been ARPA back then). Prolly NSFnet...ARPAnet by then was pretty much dead and buried. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jingber at ix.netcom.com Sun Dec 1 21:28:01 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: WordStar Professional For sale In-Reply-To: <20021201022949.GA38022@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20021130.195306.-548477.0.phillipmilks@juno.com> <20021201022949.GA38022@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <1038799746.13141.3.camel@supermicro> On Sat, 2002-11-30 at 21:29, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe phillipmilks@juno.com, from writings of Sat, Nov 30, 2002 at 07:53:05PM -0500: > > Version 5.5 NOS - seal is intact 5-1/4" floppies - Complete in the box !! > > Isn't it difficult to sell something like that when Emacs and LaTeX > are free? :-) Who needs Emacs when you have vi? From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Dec 1 21:37:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: WordStar Professional For sale References: <20021130.195306.-548477.0.phillipmilks@juno.com> <20021201022949.GA38022@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <1038799746.13141.3.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <3DEAD577.8010207@jetnet.ab.ca> Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote: > On Sat, 2002-11-30 at 21:29, R. D. Davis wrote: > >>Quothe phillipmilks@juno.com, from writings of Sat, Nov 30, 2002 at 07:53:05PM -0500: >> >>>Version 5.5 NOS - seal is intact 5-1/4" floppies - Complete in the box !! >> >>Isn't it difficult to sell something like that when Emacs and LaTeX >>are free? :-) > > > Who needs Emacs when you have vi? > I like LE best. From zmerch at 30below.com Sun Dec 1 21:39:01 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: The internet 10 years ago In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.32.20021201071045.0088a3d0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021201220325.024edaa0@mail.30below.com> At 20:46 12/01/2002 -0500, you wrote: > > 10 years ago, I was at Cray Research. We did trade shows over the internet > > (might have been ARPA back then). > >Prolly NSFnet...ARPAnet by then was pretty much dead and buried. And that would have been... what??? Non-Sufficient Funds net??? ;-) Bwaahaahaahaahaa!!! Watching where our tax dollars are going, it's prolly right... ;-) And just to put things in perspective, I've been on the net locally for around 8 years, and this is a backwater hole (despite being the 3rd oldest city in the US)... But - to also put this in perspective... Back then, AOL had a WAIS module for there software - now you can't even send non-HTML email... :-( Altavista back then was actually *useful*... spam was near non-existent, but when you did get it there was a chance it might even be 1) interesting or 2) entertaining... and last, but certainly not least... at least some of the clueless newbies a) admitted such, and b) were more willing to buy a clue somewhere, instead of whine about all those big meanies on the Internet that are picking on them BECAUSE THEIR LAST EMAIL THAT LOOKED LIKE THIS oR tHiS bEcAuSe ThEy ThaWt It WaS KoOlZ... Ah well... enough ranting... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger From jrice54 at charter.net Sun Dec 1 21:49:08 2002 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? References: <3DE8BA51.4070009@charter.net> <44157818420.20021201113932@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3DEAD986.805@charter.net> My (current) wife has never known me without my collection. My first wife hated them. I introduced Ronda (#2) to the 'net. Now she spends more time on line than I do. She's not into hardware, she is a user. Doesn't care what's in the box, what runs on the box or why/how the box works, as long as her given set of software works. When it works fast and smoothly, she's happy. As far as my collection goes, she really doesn't care. Ronda moved out of our home office to the study downstairs, so I would have more room. I've also convinced her to let me install a seperate A/C for the office. James Jeffrey Sharp wrote: >On Saturday, November 30, 2002, James Rice wrote: > > >>I think my wife says prayers of thanks each day, that I don't like or >>collect big iron or mini's. >> >> > >My girlfriend of ~5 months didn't know me when I didn't collect. Thankfully, >she is used to my house full of classiccmp stuff, having never seen it with >other contents. There's one thing I won't have to worry about. > > > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Dec 1 22:06:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: The advantages of using ed (was: WordStar Professional For sale) In-Reply-To: <3DEAD577.8010207@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <20021130.195306.-548477.0.phillipmilks@juno.com> <20021201022949.GA38022@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <1038799746.13141.3.camel@supermicro> <3DEAD577.8010207@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20021202043601.GD38022@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe ben franchuk, from writings of Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 08:37:27PM -0700: > Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote: > >On Sat, 2002-11-30 at 21:29, R. D. Davis wrote: > > > >>Quothe phillipmilks@juno.com, from writings of Sat, Nov 30, 2002 at > >>07:53:05PM -0500: > >> > >>>Version 5.5 NOS - seal is intact 5-1/4" floppies - Complete in the box !! > >> > >>Isn't it difficult to sell something like that when Emacs and LaTeX > >>are free? :-) > > > > > >Who needs Emacs when you have vi? > > > I like LE best. What about the ed editor? After all, one never knows when one will have to write something when the termcap database is hosed or if one just feels like using a printing console to get that good old "using a typewriter" feeling. Hey, don't laugh, it's a known, hypothetically 99% effective, cure for writer's block! :-) Very well then, I'll revise what I wrote earlier to: "Shouldn't it difficult to sell something like that when [some random text editor] and LaTeX are free?" :-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From uban at ubanproductions.com Sun Dec 1 22:18:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: free Wang 6540-1 and Fortune 32:16 systems in the Chicago area Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021201221321.01b253a0@ubanproductions.com> A friend of mine is cleaning house and has the following two systems available for free pickup in the Chicago area: CPU: Wang model 6540-1 with Wang hard drive model number 6580, Magenetic Peripherials Inc, Control Data corp., Model number 9448 Cartridge Drive, Part No. 77717013 http://64.32.210.122/picts/Computer/Wang/index.html (condition unknown) Fortune 32:16 http://64.32.210.122/picts/Computer/Fortune/index.html Condition: the hard drive does not spin up. Last time I tried to power it up, it displayed: 1 2 3 and then hangs (probably because of the hard drive.) I think it used to count to 10 as it boots. If you are interested in one or both of these, please send email to: Bill (jackbot AT yahoo DOT com) be sure to replace the AT and DOT accordingly. --tom From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sun Dec 1 22:29:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: PDP-11 Freeware CDs (Originally Produced by Tim Shoppa) Message-ID: <3DEAE209.55FDD58B@compsys.to> In regard to the Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 If you are not receiving this paragraph as part of a group message, then you are not on my list of individuals who may wish to receive their own copies of the CDs. In that case, please reply so that you can be placed on my list when I send out an e-mail with my address. The first batch of the 3 CDs were sent out and have been received. Although there were not a large number of people who were interested, at least a few more people now have copies. The CDs were produced from images obtained from the following two sites: ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/cd-images/ and http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RSX-11/ Since there might be a number of individuals who can't download at a reasonable speed (even with DSL it takes about 3 hours each at about 30 KBytes per second as compared with about 3 KBytes per second on a dial up line), I am prepared to make additional copies (Tim Shoppa no longer seems to have the time to do so) and make them available at my cost (for media, label, envelope and shipping carton plus postage to the US) and make them available at my cost of $ 5 / $ 9 / $ 12 for 1 / 2 / 3 CDs. If you prefer to have me use Memorex Black brand CDs which I have been told last about twice as long, the cost will be $ 1 more per CD. Note that all the prices are in US dollars for destinations in the US and postage from Canada. If you are in a different country, the postage will be different. All funds received will be considered to be a gift. Note that the images at Tim's site are ".bz2" files while the images at classiccmp are ".gz" images. For myself (Windows 98 and Netscape 4.78) DOES NOT WORK with the ".gz" images (since the file is automatically expanded - and the result is incorrect), but Carlos Murillo sent me a Windows 98 version of wget which does work, I suppose on any file. If you need help and are running Windows 98 or a compatible OS, I can send you copies of both "bzip2.exe" and "MD5.exe", but not for others OSs. For other OSs (and Windows 98) for bzip2 programs, see: http://sources.redhat.com/bzip2/ and click on either: PC, Windows 95/98/ME/NT/2000/XP PC, Windows 95/98/NT/2000. for bzip2.exe - I was advised to use the second older version and did - it worked fine under Windows 98. For MD5 programs, see either: ftp://ftp.cerias.purdue.edu/pub/tools/unix/crypto/md5/ http://www.fourmilab.ch/md5/ I obtained my MD5 programs at the first site. By the way, for myself, I would VERY much appreciate being in touch with all individuals who have a copy of the RT-11 Freeware CD V2.0 so that we might exchange information about RT-11. Tim Shoppa felt that he might be violating privacy concerns if he made the names, of those who ordered the CD, available. I don't see it that way, so if you want your name to be known along with the other individuals (or not as the case may be - i.e. restrict that you have a copy of the RT-11 CD to ONLY specified individuals such as possibly just myself) so that you can receive interesting information about new developments in RT-11 and the status of the operating system, then PLEASE contact me so that we can share information. Also state if you want to be known to the entire group of just to specified individuals such as myself. Some of you have already expressed an interest in the CDs. I hope that I have sent a personal copy of this post. If you sent a request for my snail mail address and I somehow missed you, please send me your request again. I am now ready to burn a second batch of the CDs. If you wish to have a set, please reply and I will send you my snail mail address if you are interested. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From Innfogra at aol.com Sun Dec 1 22:52:00 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Intel RMX 86/330 system & 380 startup questions Message-ID: In a message dated 12/1/02 1:46:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, rigdonj@cfl.rr.com writes: > The 310/330 are white boxs that are about the a size of a PC chassis. The > 86/330 is an aluminium/steel chassis that's 16" tall x 16" wide x 24" deep. > The ones that I had had 8" floppy drives and 8" hard drives, the 310/330 > use 5 1/4" floppy drives and have an optional 5 1/4"(?) hard drive. The > 86/330 used an 8086 CPU, the 310/330 use 286s IIRC. > > The Intel 310 is a desktop similar to a PC that uses any multibus 1 processor, 8080 to 80286. Actually I think it will run the Multibus 1 386 card too. It has a 6 slot Multibus chassis and uses 5 1/4 Hard and floppy drives. The 330 and 380s are the 16"X16"X24 white aluminum boxes. The 330 has a 6 slot Multibus card chassis combined with a 8" Floppy and 8" hard drive, usually a Priam 3450 35 meg drive. The 380 is a two 16"X16"X24 box set that is a 14 slot Multibus 1 backplane in one of the boxes and the drives in a separate nearly identical cabinet, usually housing a 1/4" tape drive along with the 8" floppy and 8 inch hard drive. Both the 330s and 380s will handle any Multibus CPU card from the 8080 to the 386. In fact the 380 can run multiple CPU cards. 86/330 indicates an 8086 card in a 330 cabinet. The Intel 320 cabinet is a desktop with a Multibus II backplane that uses 5 1/4' drives. I don't have one of these. I am going to sort this stuff out this winter & will catalog the docs then. Paxton Astoria, OR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021201/7953ea52/attachment.html From jss at subatomix.com Sun Dec 1 23:40:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Fwd: newbrain schematics In-Reply-To: <000701c29954$0a55e860$0fd7cdd4@gtsirosownsme> References: <000701c29954$0a55e860$0fd7cdd4@gtsirosownsme> Message-ID: <17222628447.20021201234134@subatomix.com> Here's a person in need of newbrain schematics. Please reply to him, not me. ---------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: George Tsiros To: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org Date: Sunday, December 1, 2002, 10:09:31 AM Subject: newbrain schematics Hello I have a newbrain. It has some problem with display circuits. It shows a different area of memory on screen. please tell me if you can where i can find them. thank you. ---------- End forwarded message ---------- -- Jeffrey Sharp From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Mon Dec 2 03:07:00 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:17 2005 Subject: Microprofessr MPF-1 Manuals? Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFB96@lif015.merlincommunications.com> Glen, > Does anyone have manuals for the MultiTech Microprofessor MPF-1B? I have the manauals and listings but not online. Diagrams ar available at http://members.lycos.co.uk/leeedavison/z80/mpf1/ . If the machine you have is the 1B then it should have the BASIC EPROM in the second socket (U7). Cheers, Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Dec 2 05:57:00 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: Sharp PC5000 In-Reply-To: <3127.68.64.124.83.1038632276.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <000801c29683$50d95de0$98d0a318@mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <3DEB5971.19869.61DB4156@localhost> "Eric Smith" : > "Larry Greenberg" wasks: > > I also have a Sharp PC5000. > > Is it worth anything? > Yes. Eric, I love your reply... a good candidat for a Best of List Award (*1). H. (*1) - with a PC5000 as grand price -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Dec 2 11:31:00 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: Poqet PC Message-ID: (I tried replying to this on Friday, but was at home, accessing work email with Outlook Web Access, which my company requires. The reply didn't make it.) There were 3 Poqet models, referred to as the "Classic" (PQ-0164), "Prime" (PQ-0181) and "Plus". My information comes from Brian Mason's Poqet PC Web site http://www.bmason.com/PoqetPC/index.shtml, an excellent source. The last one is the Fujitsu model that California Digital sells. It has backlighting, built-in rechargable NiCads (which often are dead by now), 2MB RAM, and Type I/II PCMCIA slots. It is the only model that can use Flash RAM (up to 32MB, reports to the contrary notwithstanding) and modem cards (only certain ones). The first model had 512KB RAM, and the second 640KB, as well as better built-in programs. Both use two AA batteries for power. There is no backup battery -- you have about 30 seconds to change AA's before the internal RAM disk goes blank. (I asume Steve is refering to the backup batteriues in his SRAM cards.) Both can only use Type I PCMCIA SRAM cards or small linear Flash cards (as ROM cards). The expansion connector on the back is a female 80-pin edge connector. It brings out most of the PC bus, as well as the serial lines. Pinouts are in Brian Mason's FAQ and in the Fujitsu technical manual, which Brian has on his web site (http://www.bmason.com/PoqetPC/techref/toc.html). The Poqet serial adaptor is rather bulky, so I created a bitmap for etching a small PC board to use as a serial connector. I can email the bmp file to anyone who is interested. The Poqet PC web site also has archives of a mailing list, with lots of useful info. The list has been dead for about 2 years now. There was an attempt to revive a list, but it is only sporadically active. Used Poqets are popular with QRP radio fans. The New Jersey QRP web site has info on replacing dead Nicads in the Plus model. BTW, the spelling of the name is "Poqet". It is pronounced as "pocket", I believe, although I pronounce it "PO-ket". All-in-all, I think the HP LX palmtops are better and more useful computers. (I have a Poqet PQ-0181, HP 95LX and HP 200LX.) I also have two early PQ-0164's, both with broken LCD's, missing keys, opened cases, etc. (this is the way they were when I got them). The newer is serial number 5224, with PC boards made in Japan. The earlier is Poqet Computer Corp Asset #02778, with boards made in the US. This one also has a "US Govt. Prop. DOE" sticker on the screen. I'm willing to part with either or both of these. Contact me offline. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Jones [mailto:classiccmp@crash.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 8:43 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Poqet PC I've muddied the waters a bit... The link I included was for the later Fujitsu Poqet PC Plus. Fujitsi bought out the original company before or while the second generation product was being offered. CA Digital is giving specs for the Plus model, which is what I believe they're selling. Gee, I wonder if this is covered on one of the timelines people have been discussing... The original Poqet PC has _no_ backlight, uses 2 std AA cells, and MS-DOS 3.3 in ROM. Not sure how much memory is in there, ISTR at least 512K and maybe more. There's a small ramdisk on D: for AUTOEXEC/CONFIG.SYS, and the DOS ROM is C:. The two PCMCIA slots at A:/B: are nice, especially with the 2MB SRAM cards - however I appear to have forgotten to refresh the lithium backup batteries in mine :^} Fred's right, the original Poqet brings pretty much the whole XT bus out to a connector on the back. I like the idea of hooking this up to a backplane... B^P Somewhere I have the docs from when I bought the thing, but it may be years before they surface again. --S. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Dec 2 12:13:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: Superb Exidy System on Ebay in Holland Message-ID: <200212021815.KAA23733@clulw009.amd.com> >From: Witchy > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On >> Behalf Of Peter Turnbull >> Sent: 26 November 2002 08:11 >> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> Subject: Re: Superb Exidy System on Ebay in Holland >> >> >> On Nov 25, 21:28, Curt Vendel wrote: >> > Anybody who is into this system should check it this auction I found on >> > Ebay: >> > >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2 >> 074514971 >> > >> > The guy also has some nice Commodore stuff, a Sony (MSX?) >> System and some >> > other cool stuff too. >> >> The coolest item there, for me, is his Jupiter Ace. For those who don't >> know, it's a FORTH machine, and fairly rare. It's based on a Sinclair >> ZX81, and named after the Pilot ACE computer built in 1950 at the National >> Physical Laboratory. > >Not strictly true; it was designed by Richard Altwasser (hardware) and >Steven Vickers (ROMs) after they'd left Sinclair and formed Jupiter Cantab; >both had previously worked with the ZX80 (Richard) and 81 (Richard/Steven) >and I think Steven also wrote some of the firmware for the Spectrum. It's >design is more ZX80 than 81 in that it's a single board machine with the >membrane keyboard incorporated on the mainboard. >I don't think there were any differences between the Ace and the Ace 4000, >though I'm sure US ones had a slightly modified case in that it had an extra >'bump' in it! > >It's typical that all that stuff comes up when I don't have a job - I'd have >all of it :) > Hi The main difference between the US and European Ace was that the US one was slower and had a different divider circuit for the video ( slower because of the crystal used to get video right ). I have a US version but know people that have the European version as well. Dwight From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Dec 2 13:37:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: Help Needed with Non-profit Status Message-ID: <004801c29a3a$79820520$be60ec42@oemcomputer> I'm trying to get all the paper work done before the end of the (2002) to get non-profit status from the IRS and the State (TX). I can't decide which is the best between a 501(c)3 or a 501(c)4 organization? Which did most of you that have filed use for your computer museum? Any other help with task would be great. Thanks in advance. From marvin at rain.org Mon Dec 2 13:46:01 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: Help Needed with Non-profit Status References: <004801c29a3a$79820520$be60ec42@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3DEBB8EB.F2EE1478@rain.org> Keys wrote: > > I'm trying to get all the paper work done before the end of the (2002) to > get non-profit status from the IRS and the State (TX). I can't decide which > is the best between a 501(c)3 or a 501(c)4 organization? Which did most of > you that have filed use for your computer museum? Any other help with task > would be great. Thanks in advance. I'm not sure about the 501(c)4 but the 501(c)3 corporation can accept donations and give a tax writeoff to the donor; certainly something to think about! From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 2 13:47:42 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: Help Needed with Non-profit Status In-Reply-To: <004801c29a3a$79820520$be60ec42@oemcomputer> References: <004801c29a3a$79820520$be60ec42@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <1678.4.20.168.170.1038858483.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I'm trying to get all the paper work done before the end of the (2002) > to get non-profit status from the IRS and the State (TX). I can't decide > which is the best between a 501(c)3 or a 501(c)4 organization? Which > did most of you that have filed use for your computer museum? Any other > help with task would be great. Thanks in advance. Do you actually have a museum that is open to the public (or by appointment)? Or do you have some other way that you operate in the public interest? Or is that not required to qualify as a 501(c)3? I just looked it up with Google: (3) Corporations, and any community chest, fund, or foundation, organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, testing for public safety, literary, or educational purposes, or to foster national or international amateur sports competition (but only if no part of its activities involve the provision of athletic facilities or equipment), or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals, no part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual, no substantial part of the activities of which is carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to influence legislation (except as otherwise provided in subsection (h)), and which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office. (4) (A) Civic leagues or organizations not organized for profit but operated exclusively for the promotion of social welfare, or local associations of employees, the membership of which is limited to the employees of a designated person or persons in a particular municipality, and the net earnings of which are devoted exclusively to charitable, educational, or recreational purposes. (B) Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to an entity unless no part of the net earnings of such entity inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual. I can see where a computer museum falls under "educational purposes" in 501(c)3, if it is accessible to the public, but not how it would qualify for 501(c)4. But of course, IANAL. From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Dec 2 14:06:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: Help Needed with Non-profit Status References: <004801c29a3a$79820520$be60ec42@oemcomputer> <1678.4.20.168.170.1038858483.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <005301c29a3e$89804550$be60ec42@oemcomputer> In the second warehouse I have office space that is enclosed that I setup as small museum area that can be shown by appointment and before I filled the warehouse I could give a small group(2 to 3 people) tours of the warehouse (no insurance to cover large groups). I used to give presentations at the local middle and high schools in the TwinCities (MN). My needs right now are for a permanent place for the collection (rents went up again) and to get some funding to help with the expenses. If I meet these two goals then I will be able to open to the public with regular hours. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Smith" To: Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 1:48 PM Subject: Re: Help Needed with Non-profit Status > > I'm trying to get all the paper work done before the end of the (2002) > > to get non-profit status from the IRS and the State (TX). I can't decide > > which is the best between a 501(c)3 or a 501(c)4 organization? Which > > did most of you that have filed use for your computer museum? Any other > > help with task would be great. Thanks in advance. > > Do you actually have a museum that is open to the public (or by > appointment)? Or do you have some other way that you operate in the > public interest? > > Or is that not required to qualify as a 501(c)3? > > I just looked it up with Google: > > (3) > > Corporations, and any community chest, fund, or foundation, organized and > operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, testing for > public safety, literary, or educational purposes, or to foster national or > international amateur sports competition (but only if no part of its > activities involve the provision of athletic facilities or equipment), or > for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals, no part of the net > earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or > individual, no substantial part of the activities of which is carrying on > propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to influence legislation (except as > otherwise provided in subsection (h)), and which does not participate in, > or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), > any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate > for public office. > > (4) > > (A) > > Civic leagues or organizations not organized for profit but operated > exclusively for the promotion of social welfare, or local associations of > employees, the membership of which is limited to the employees of a > designated person or persons in a particular municipality, and the net > earnings of which are devoted exclusively to charitable, educational, or > recreational purposes. > > (B) > > Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to an entity unless no part of the net > earnings of such entity inures to the benefit of any private shareholder > or individual. > > > I can see where a computer museum falls under "educational purposes" in > 501(c)3, if it is accessible to the public, but not how it would qualify > for 501(c)4. But of course, IANAL. > > > > From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 2 14:18:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: Help Needed with Non-profit Status In-Reply-To: <005301c29a3e$89804550$be60ec42@oemcomputer> References: <004801c29a3a$79820520$be60ec42@oemcomputer> <1678.4.20.168.170.1038858483.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <005301c29a3e$89804550$be60ec42@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3215.4.20.168.170.1038860394.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > My needs right now are for a permanent place for the collection > (rents went up again) and to get some funding to help with the expenses. > If I meet these two goals then I will be able to open to the public with > regular hours. Cool! Good luck with that! From oliv555 at arrl.net Mon Dec 2 15:04:01 2002 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: Intel RMX 86/330 system & 380 startup questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3DEBCB26.50306@arrl.net> Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/1/02 1:46:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, > rigdonj@cfl.rr.com writes: > > >> The 310/330 are white boxs that are about the a size of a PC chassis. >> The 86/330 is an aluminium/steel chassis that's 16" tall x 16" wide x >> 24" deep. The ones that I had had 8" floppy drives and 8" hard drives, >> the 310/330 use 5 1/4" floppy drives and have an optional 5 1/4"(?) >> hard drive. The 86/330 used an 8086 CPU, the 310/330 use 286s IIRC. >> > > > The Intel 310 is a desktop similar to a PC that uses any multibus 1 > processor, 8080 to 80286. Actually I think it will run the Multibus 1 > 386 card too. Tried a 386 card in a SYP310 a few years back but no success From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Dec 2 15:10:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: Help Needed with Non-profit Status In-Reply-To: <005301c29a3e$89804550$be60ec42@oemcomputer> Message-ID: > In the second warehouse I have office space that is enclosed that I setup as > small museum area that can be shown by appointment and before I filled the > warehouse I could give a small group(2 to 3 people) tours of the warehouse > (no insurance to cover large groups). I used to give presentations at the > local middle and high schools in the TwinCities (MN). My needs right now are > for a permanent place for the collection (rents went up again) and to get > some funding to help with the expenses. If I meet these two goals then I > will be able to open to the public with regular hours. Not to discourage you or anything, but... What you are trying to do is quite legal (although you will need to get some officers (3 or 4)), but is basically very dangerous. There is nothing wrong with starting a computer museum - hey, I have been trying to get folks to do this for several years - but do not try to turn a personal collection into a tax shelter. Doing so raises a big red flag for the IRS, and they can nail you in a serious way. The only way to survive once the IRS starts to look into your personal museum is to show them that you have followed every rule _to_the_letter_, something that almost nobody does. If you are going to do this (and please do), get some others to help you out by sharing the "fun" or incorporation, being officers, coming to meetings, and so forth. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 2 17:13:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: The internet 10 years ago In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021202231502.43575.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- William Donzelli wrote: > > 10 years ago, I was at Cray Research. We did trade shows over the > internet > > (might have been ARPA back then). > > Prolly NSFnet...ARPAnet by then was pretty much dead and buried. My only personal contact with the ARPAnet was about 1986 - someone else sent my name to a freeware author and suggested he send me a copy of his program - 1.5MB of source and wrappers. My friend got my address wrong, and to compound the error, he gave the author a bang-path that routed over the ARPAnet to Ohio State (our upstream feed). The result was that 1.5MB of text came over the ARPAnet, through an X.25 gateway that OSU paid per-packet charges on, was UUCPed to our little 11/730 at work at 2400bps, *bounced*, then was returned through the same route, in its entirety, to the sender. The mail/UUCP/netnews admin at OSU was a friend of mine. I got the big *NEVER DO THIS AGAIN OR ELSE* warning even though I had nothing to do with any of it. ISTR it cost OSU around $200 in telecom charges for that fubar. They didn't get a full-time, fixed-cost feed to "the Net" until a couple of years after this happened. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 2 17:35:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: The advantages of using ed (was: WordStar Professional For sale) In-Reply-To: <20021202043601.GD38022@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Dec 1, 2 11:36:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1077 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021202/9f3048e9/attachment.ksh From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Dec 2 18:22:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: IUP-200/201 Message-ID: <200212030024.QAA23832@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "gijs kantoor" > >I am looking for an old Intel unit, the IUP 200/201 universal prom >programmer, with software, and information how to use. I have the IUP-F87/51 >module and userguide, and a folder of the IUP-200/201 but not the programmer >it self. > >Gijs Meirmans >The Netherlands > > Hi Gilis I don't recall if the UPP also needed a special programmer card for the 51's. I know that things like the 8748's required both a special card and an adapter like you have. I have one of these programmers but it isn't for sale. The use of these is quite simple if you have a Intel development system to plug it into. Most of the software to program things was either built into the monitor ROM's or available through the update OS. One can make an adapter cable and run the programmer from a bi-directional parallel port of a PC. Most of the control sequences were simple. When I worked for Intel ( years ago ), I was responsible for the developing the test for the newer personality cards that Intel made for this programmer. It was funny, Intel was one of the last customers for the 4001 ROM's used on these boards. I remember when they got the notice from the fabs that they needed to make their last end of life purchases. This was the death notice for this product. I'd made a special board to test the products. It was what I called a "4040 slow time ice". The 4040 bus is dynamic and needs a continuous clock. I ran things from code on a Series II. I would use the board to checkout things like the programming drive signals and the data in the ROM's. It saved quite a bit of time in trouble shooting these boards. It was funny that I had requested the data in the ROM's for test purposes and was told that it was too proprietary ( remember, these were obsolete 4040 systems we are talking about, even then ). I just copied known good boards and used them. They were always changing the numbers on the packages for boards like the 2716's. Having the code inside made it a lot easier to check that they'd plugged the right ones in. One still had to watch for upgraded software but when a lot came in with 100% fails and the code was different, it didn't take long to figure what needed to be replaced. Dwight From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Dec 2 18:30:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: Beehive Terminal Manuals Message-ID: <200212030031.QAA23836@clulw009.amd.com> Hi The Beehive was one of the best terminals I'd ever used. The one that Intel used ( and painted Intel blue ), used Cherry Hall effect switches for the keyboards. I only saw one of these switches go bad and that was because the keyboard had a heavy object dropped on it ( drive box ). It broke the ceramic that the Hall effect device was on. This keyboard had the best feel of any keyboard that I'd used before or since( around '80 ). How may out there have problems with other mechanical keyboards ( I know I have a few flaky ones ) and wish they'd used the robust Hall effect keys? Dwight >From: Joe >Dan, > > I found a NIB Beehive terminal a couple of years ago and I couldn't even give it away. I finally tossed it in the trash. > > Joe > >At 06:51 PM 11/30/02 -0500, you wrote: >>While looking for old floppy disks I came across a couple >>of manuals: >> >>Reference Manual for Beehive Terminals, Models I, II and III (1972) >> >>and >> >>Operator Manual OCLC Model 100 Computer Terminal (1974) >> >>If anyone needs any information from either of these manuals, >>drop me a line off-list. >> >>I'd also be interested in hearing from anyone who might have >>a Beehive terminal, since they look pretty interesting (if you >>have an interest in old computer terminals, as I do). >> >> >>Cheers, >> >>Dan >>http://www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html >> >> > > > From loedman1 at juno.com Mon Dec 2 18:45:01 2002 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: OT: _spam_ (Fred N. van Kempen) Message-ID: <20021202.164421.-479477.0.loedman1@juno.com> You could be correct, I have been recieving a ton of computer training spam. Rich >Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:00:01 +0100 >From: "Fred N. van Kempen" >To: >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Hi all, >I have been checking some dates, and I'm quite sure that someone on >this list isn't for real, but a spam-address-collector instead. If I >post something on this list, I get spam pretty soon thereafter. And >yes, I varied my sender address (a little), and it takes over that >spelling. From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Mon Dec 2 20:04:01 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: RL02 Disk Cartridge Problems Message-ID: <1038881094.7448.4.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> I just received an RL02K-DC disk cartridge that I won on Ebay. It looks the same as all my other cartridges, and the shock indicator is still white. When I put the cartridge in either of my drives, it spins up for a while then the fault light comes on. This does not happen with any of the other RL02 cartridges I have. I can see no difference between this cartridge and any of the others, and it seems to take no less force to turn by hand. I'm wondering what I could be missing. Any help would be greatly appreciated. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Dec 2 20:07:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: OT: _spam_ (Fred N. van Kempen) In-Reply-To: <20021202.164421.-479477.0.loedman1@juno.com> Message-ID: <3DEBBE29.32400.156D9920@localhost> This has come up many times before and if it was true we would all be receiving the same spam. Most of my spam lately has been from people promoting how you can make millions of dollars on the i-net if I just send $25 to this person who must have time enough from making MILLIONS to spam others for 25 bucks, or the African government scam where if I will allow them to use my acount I can share in the MILLIONS secreted in an African account. Haven't even got one lately from the Viagra people promising a new day if only I try thier penile assistance, or SEXY NUDE TEENS ,awaiting my perusal at a minimal fee. Newsgroups or websites are still rich areas to harvest and I don't think we are a big enough source to glean, as yet. Lawrence > You could be correct, I have been recieving a ton of computer training > spam. > Rich > > >Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:00:01 +0100 > >From: "Fred N. van Kempen" > >To: > >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > >Hi all, > > >I have been checking some dates, and I'm quite sure that someone on > >this list isn't for real, but a spam-address-collector instead. If I > >post something on this list, I get spam pretty soon thereafter. And > >yes, I varied my sender address (a little), and it takes over that > >spelling. lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Dec 2 20:22:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: RL02 Disk Cartridge Problems In-Reply-To: <1038881094.7448.4.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> References: <1038881094.7448.4.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Christopher McNabb wrote: > I just received an RL02K-DC disk cartridge that I won on Ebay. It looks > the same as all my other cartridges, and the shock indicator is still > white. Not been used as a Frisbee, then.... this is good. > > When I put the cartridge in either of my drives, it spins up for a while > then the fault light comes on. This does not happen with any of the > other RL02 cartridges I have. > How long is a 'while'? Is a 'while' the same each time, or is it a variable amount of 'while'? Do your working disks function subsequently in the same drives, AFTER you try the bad one? Is there info on the disk you want, or just the platter itself? If the latter case, is there enough time to INIT it before it faults? What machine model and hardware config are you using? What OS and version are you running? Do you have the DEC diagnostics? > I can see no difference between this cartridge and any of the others, > and it seems to take no less force to turn by hand. > Irrelevant and potentially dangerous test - Dont Do This!! The RL02 will tell you if there is something wrong with the disk, as it seems to be doing now. Do you know how to clean the heads on your drives? Even a minor headcrash leaves gunk on the head surfaces, and renders the disk platter itself unusable in most cases... be careful! I'm sure that others will also amplify these questions before any intelligent reaponse can be given. In the meantime, I'd suggest not trying to re-run the offending disk until this gets sorted out. Cheers John PS: How much didja pay for it? Just curious... From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Dec 2 20:37:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: The advantages of using ed (was: WordStar Professional For sale) In-Reply-To: References: <20021202043601.GD38022@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20021203030646.GG38022@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 11:34:21PM +0000: > Can I use a hand card punch (with a key for each row) or one of those > little paper tape editing blocks, please. The latter together with a > splicing jig [1] and splicing tapes, of course. That sounds like fun, and. it's quite practical as well for very dependable long-term storage. :-) > [1] If you don't have one of these, it's wort remembering that paper tape Alas, I've not collected one of these yet. > Well, tape and card punches aren't always free, but equally they don't > come with unreasonable licensing agreements :-) Which makes them far more useful than rubbish like Micro$oft Word or Word Imperfect. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Dec 2 20:39:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: OT: _spam_ (Fred N. van Kempen) In-Reply-To: <3DEBBE29.32400.156D9920@localhost> References: <3DEBBE29.32400.156D9920@localhost> Message-ID: Since I have never posted anything to Usenet in 11 years, and since I have always used a Unix shell account running Pine - I get relatively little spam. There was a case some years ago where some enterprising HAX0R catted the user directory and got all of Netcom's userids... I have never found any correlation between classiccmp ad spam levels... I curently get one or two Nigerian offers a month, 7-10 Winning Poker ads, 7-10 Home Mortgage Refinance, an/or Ultimate Vacation Offer, and, lately, once or twice a week, some thoughful person offers to sell me some Stuff to make my YuNoWhat bigger... I don't know whether to to be flattered or offended - so I just delete it all. I am not including the spam that filters onto the List itself (as a recipient), I am citing the examples that are addressed to me personally. Actually I get spam through Panix itself, the Lists I'm subscribed to, and personal spam - at a ratio of about 40/40/20 percent. Even at that, it amounts to 10 or 15 a week, and the DEL key kills 'em all, save for the few creative or utterly moronic amateur examples that I file away. Just now there's a news item circulating as to how we can expect a coming barrage of spam, and also as to how various Big Retailers are gearing up to flood our collective mailboxen. And you thought you hated Sanford Wallace sufficiently... Cheers John From oliv555 at arrl.net Mon Dec 2 20:41:00 2002 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: RL02 Disk Cartridge Problems In-Reply-To: <1038881094.7448.4.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> References: <1038881094.7448.4.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <3DEC19EE.4010506@arrl.net> Christopher McNabb wrote: > I just received an RL02K-DC disk cartridge that I won on Ebay. It looks > the same as all my other cartridges, and the shock indicator is still > white. > > When I put the cartridge in either of my drives, it spins up for a while > then the fault light comes on. This does not happen with any of the > other RL02 cartridges I have. > > I can see no difference between this cartridge and any of the others, > and it seems to take no less force to turn by hand. > > I'm wondering what I could be missing. Any help would be greatly > appreciated. > Been a while since I used these drives. I know that if debris got into the grooves cut into the sector ring of an RK05 .. that would cause problems -nick From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Mon Dec 2 20:42:23 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: RL02 Disk Cartridge Problems In-Reply-To: References: <1038881094.7448.4.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <1038883320.7450.13.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> On Mon, 2002-12-02 at 21:24, John Lawson wrote: > On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Christopher McNabb wrote: > > When I put the cartridge in either of my drives, it spins up for a while > > then the fault light comes on. This does not happen with any of the > > other RL02 cartridges I have. > > > > How long is a 'while'? Probably between 30 and 45 seconds. I haven't timed it. > > Is a 'while' the same each time, or is it a variable amount of 'while'? > It is always the same. I think that maybe the drive thinks the disk is not coming up to speed fast enough. > Do your working disks function subsequently in the same drives, AFTER > you try the bad one? > Yes, once I cycle power to the drive to clear the fault light. I wish I knew a cleaner way to reset the fault light. > Is there info on the disk you want, or just the platter itself? If the > latter case, is there enough time to INIT it before it faults? > The label claims that the disk holds 'Stand-alone Forth', which may be interesting. The ready light never comes on, just the fault light, so I don't think I could INIT it if I wanted to. > What machine model and hardware config are you using? What OS and > version are you running? Do you have the DEC diagnostics? > The machine is a PDP-11/24 with one RA-80 and 2 RL-02 disks, 1024 KB RAM, FPU, EIS, DZ11A. Running RSTS 9.2 > > PS: How much didja pay for it? Just curious... $9.95 plus $12.50 shipping. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Dec 2 21:00:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: RL02 Disk Cartridge Problems In-Reply-To: <1038883320.7450.13.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> References: <1038881094.7448.4.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> <1038883320.7450.13.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Christopher McNabb wrote: > > > > How long is a 'while'? > > Probably between 30 and 45 seconds. I haven't timed it. > > > > > Is a 'while' the same each time, or is it a variable amount of 'while'? > > > > It is always the same. I think that maybe the drive thinks the disk is > not coming up to speed fast enough. > I'm not sure what the hardware timeout for bad Tachometer signals is... but it sure sounds like either the tach segment is munged somewhow (The ring on the bottome of the platter hub with the slits cut in it) or that the data on the platter is damaged, or that it was not written on a DEC system. The packs were used on a number of different systems. > > Do your working disks function subsequently in the same drives, AFTER > > you try the bad one? > > > > Yes, once I cycle power to the drive to clear the fault light. I wish I > knew a cleaner way to reset the fault light. Re-boot the computer. At least my 11/44 clears an RL02 fault on re-boot. > > > Is there info on the disk you want, or just the platter itself? If the > > latter case, is there enough time to INIT it before it faults? > > > > The label claims that the disk holds 'Stand-alone Forth', which may be > interesting. The ready light never comes on, just the fault light, so I > don't think I could INIT it if I wanted to. Yup, that's true: if it never comes into ready, little else can be done. Do you have any way of knowing what actual System recorded the disk? If it wasn't a DEC OS, you might have a problem. At the last VCF, I tried to read two packs that someone had, to see what was on them, and the same thing happened. (PDP11/44, RSX11M) > > > > PS: How much didja pay for it? Just curious... > > $9.95 plus $12.50 shipping. Not bad, considering what they cost new (around $200). With deference to further incoming opinions, I would think perhaps the data format is completely incompatible, and the drive can't 'find' the correct bit pattern, and thus it pukes. Tony Duell is familiar with the internal operation of the RL02, and perhpas he can shed better light. Cheers John From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Mon Dec 2 21:08:01 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: RL02 Disk Cartridge Problems In-Reply-To: References: <1038881094.7448.4.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> <1038883320.7450.13.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <1038884960.7450.17.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> On Mon, 2002-12-02 at 22:01, John Lawson wrote: > On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Christopher McNabb wrote: > > > With deference to further incoming opinions, I would think perhaps the > data format is completely incompatible, and the drive can't 'find' the > correct bit pattern, and thus it pukes. Tony Duell is familiar with the > internal operation of the RL02, and perhpas he can shed better light. > The label says it is Stand Alone Forth-11. That said, I know I'm guilty of not changing disk labels after overwriting data, so it is entirely possible that something else is on the disk.. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Dec 2 22:42:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: RL02 Disk Cartridge Problems References: <1038881094.7448.4.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> <1038883320.7450.13.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> <1038884960.7450.17.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <3DEC3638.3040506@jetnet.ab.ca> Christopher McNabb wrote: > On Mon, 2002-12-02 at 22:01, John Lawson wrote: > >>On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Christopher McNabb wrote: >> > > >> With deference to further incoming opinions, I would think perhaps the >>data format is completely incompatible, and the drive can't 'find' the >>correct bit pattern, and thus it pukes. Tony Duell is familiar with the >>internal operation of the RL02, and perhpas he can shed better light. >> > > > The label says it is Stand Alone Forth-11. That said, I know I'm guilty > of not changing disk labels after overwriting data, so it is entirely > possible that something else is on the disk.. > Forth is known for not using a disk file system and reading/writing directly to disk. Forth is one place you need to be very carefull reading the docs. From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Dec 2 22:45:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: RL02 Disk Cartridge Problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, John Lawson wrote: > I'm not sure what the hardware timeout for bad Tachometer signals is... > but it sure sounds like either the tach segment is munged somewhow (The > ring on the bottome of the platter hub with the slits cut in it) or that > the data on the platter is damaged, or that it was not written on a DEC > system. The packs were used on a number of different systems. I'd go for possibly a dislodged "tach magnet" (really they mark sectors IIRC). I'd _really_ doubt it's got anything to do with what's written on the pack (see below). > With deference to further incoming opinions, I would think perhaps the > data format is completely incompatible, and the drive can't 'find' the > correct bit pattern, and thus it pukes. Tony Duell is familiar with the > internal operation of the RL02, and perhpas he can shed better light. While I'm not Tony, I spent some time last year slaving over the RL02 (and RLV12, RL8A) printsets, and I can tell you that the drive _doesn't_ care what data is recorded on the disk. Fundamentally, the RL01/02 is a fairly 'dumb' drive. Other than the sector marking magnets on the hub of the disk, the drive is fairly undiscriminating. The only real circuits between the read/write head and the ports on the back of the drive are read and write amps (and write gate, etc). A good check would be to listen for the heads to load into the pack. If they're not loading, then there's no way that the data can be the source of the problem. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From donm at cts.com Mon Dec 2 23:08:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: OT: _spam_ (Fred N. van Kempen) In-Reply-To: <3DEBBE29.32400.156D9920@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > This has come up many times before and if it was true we would all > be receiving the same spam. Most of my spam lately has been from > people promoting how you can make millions of dollars on the i-net > if I just send $25 to this person who must have time enough from > making MILLIONS to spam others for 25 bucks, or the African > government scam where if I will allow them to use my acount I can > share in the MILLIONS secreted in an African account. Haven't even > got one lately from the Viagra people promising a new day if only I > try thier penile assistance, or SEXY NUDE TEENS ,awaiting my > perusal at a minimal fee. That is the bulk of the spam that I receive also. Annoying, but... - don > Newsgroups or websites are still rich areas to harvest and I don't > think we are a big enough source to glean, as yet. > > Lawrence > > > You could be correct, I have been recieving a ton of computer training > > spam. > > Rich > > > > >Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:00:01 +0100 > > >From: "Fred N. van Kempen" > > >To: > > >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > > >Hi all, > > > > >I have been checking some dates, and I'm quite sure that someone on > > >this list isn't for real, but a spam-address-collector instead. If I > > >post something on this list, I get spam pretty soon thereafter. And > > >yes, I varied my sender address (a little), and it takes over that > > >spelling. > > > lgwalker@mts.net > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com > From wmsmith at earthlink.net Mon Dec 2 23:19:00 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: Sharp PC5000 References: <000801c29683$50d95de0$98d0a318@mn.rr.com> <3DEB5971.19869.61DB4156@localhost> Message-ID: <005001c29a8b$cb28b710$1843cd18@D73KSM11> > "Eric Smith" : > > "Larry Greenberg" wasks: > > > I also have a Sharp PC5000. > > > Is it worth anything? > > > Yes. > > Eric, I love your reply... a good candidat for > a Best of List Award (*1). > It's also a good reply to "Do you know what time it is?" From schickel at psln.com Mon Dec 2 23:44:00 2002 From: schickel at psln.com (Frank Schickel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: OT: Spam Volume [Long] References: <3DEBBE29.32400.156D9920@localhost> Message-ID: <3DEC450E.422BD63B@psln.com> Hi all, Let me delurk for a moment and relate my experience with spam. I don't think that I could even detect any increase in spam from being a member of the list unless it was really severe. (One thing I can point to that incresaed my load was someone from work got a PC and started giving humor/joke/funny-bits sites my address rather than sending me the link; make sure you tell friends *NEVER* give a site your address so they can "share" the experience with you.) I bought McAfee's SpamKiller 4 months ago and, except for trouble with my crappy dialup, look at it as a life-saver. I've been online with the same email address for over 8 years, and in the beginning was not as careful with it as I should have been. After running a couple of months to make sure I had a good lock on classifications, I ran SpamKiller for a week from an empty "killed" folder. After a week I had 600+ messages in the killed folder, which would have been more, if the phone line didn't keep conking out while SpamKiller downloaded and filtered the mailbox. I think in the last year I have seen everything there is to see in the way of spam, and if it weren't the fact that to stop the spam *I* would have to give up *my* email address (just because some people are stupid enough to respond to something that they receive in their inbox) I would give up and roll over. Overall I would rate SpamKiller a 7+, higher if used on a DSL or cable line (since if the line drops while it's downloading, it throws it out of kilter and it may not filter all messages...). Setup is a cinch, and it learns pretty quickly what to filter (filters available on sender's address, subject line, substring in message, or *entire domain*). Filter updates are downloadable that add/delete pre- defined filters (only minus: thay don't show deleted filters, so you never know why a filter would be deleted; and they don't say where the filters are defined [back channel from installations?]). Later, Frank PS. Some of my personal favorites are the "natural herbal products" that can add either 2 cup sizes or 3+ inches; the various incarnations of the Nigerian scam; and the kid that hides $71,000 in his closet after earning it sending out emails.... The latest one that's high- volume is the RC Mini Racers that are sold out at retail stores. John Lawson wrote: [ snip ] > I have never found any correlation between classiccmp ad spam levels... > I curently get one or two Nigerian offers a month, 7-10 Winning Poker ads, > 7-10 Home Mortgage Refinance, an/or Ultimate Vacation Offer, and, lately, > once or twice a week, some thoughful person offers to sell me some Stuff > to make my YuNoWhat bigger... I don't know whether to to be flattered or > offended - so I just delete it all. > [ snip ] > > Cheers > > John -- Join my distributed.net team: Cow County Crackers, at http://stats.distributed.net/rc5-64/tmsummary.php3?team=10621 RC5-64 was solved July 2002. Now on to 72!!! From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Dec 3 00:41:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: OT: _spam_ (Fred N. van Kempen) In-Reply-To: "Lawrence Walker" "Re: OT: _spam_ (Fred N. van Kempen)" (Dec 2, 20:10) References: <3DEBBE29.32400.156D9920@localhost> Message-ID: <10212030621.ZM1815@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 2, 20:10, Lawrence Walker wrote: > This has come up many times before and if it was true we would all > be receiving the same spam. Most of my spam lately has been from > people promoting how you can make millions of dollars on the i-net > if I just send $25 to this person who must have time enough from > making MILLIONS to spam others for 25 bucks, or the African > government scam where if I will allow them to use my acount I can > share in the MILLIONS secreted in an African account. Haven't even > got one lately from the Viagra people promising a new day if only I > try thier penile assistance, or SEXY NUDE TEENS ,awaiting my > perusal at a minimal fee. That's exactly what mine has been like lately. I wonder if that matches Fred's? > Newsgroups or websites are still rich areas to harvest and I don't > think we are a big enough source to glean, as yet. "Big enough" has nothing to do with it. If you do a Google search for "mailing list", classiccmp archives are amongst the hits, and therefore easy to trawl. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From marvin at rain.org Tue Dec 3 00:58:00 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: Motorola HDS-200 Message-ID: <3DEC5668.1D98FA52@rain.org> There is an HDS-200 MC-6805R2 ... cartridge with no bids and a $0.99 opening bid on ebay at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1873578018. Amazing place to put it as it is on ebay motors :). From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Dec 3 02:23:01 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: OT: Spam Volume [Long] In-Reply-To: <3DEC450E.422BD63B@psln.com> References: <3DEBBE29.32400.156D9920@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021203002337.02bb4700@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Only spam that currently is bothering me is the asian stuff I can't read a bit of, so I don't know how to reject it. I am thinking I need to surf with the browser setup using a temporary email address or something. From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Tue Dec 3 03:11:39 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? References: Message-ID: <3DEB3FAD.8020707@Vishay.com> Sellam Ismail and Ethan Dicks wrote: >>>I still prefer my Psion though (2 AA batteries ;) >> >>If I'd ever seen one, I'd probably jump on it. I've seen Psion >>accessories in the bargain bin at the local MicroCenter, but never >>the Psion itself. > > > It is, hands down, the best palmtop organizer ever. > > (Don't let the term "palmtop organizer" mislead you. It's actually a > 32-bit computer with a realtime multi-tasking OS running an ARM processor. > Linux has been ported to it. I have an Apple ][ emulator written > specifically for it running on it.) Even the Series 3 machines were amazing in terms of what had been packed into the ROM: no Linux AFAIK, but with the SIBO platform, there is multitasking available as well as a windows server and an IP stack (from the PsiMail product). These are just examples, see the Psionics files for more information. I prefer the Series 3 over the Series 5 because there is no pen. I always fear leaving scratches on the display... For the "dumb terminal" topic, there used to be a good VT100 emulator from a company called Yellow Software for the 3a (also runs on 3c / 3mx). I bought it together with my first 3a and was a happy user of both. Since then, the need for Telnetting into a host came up, and the trouble is that Yellow's emulator is not capable of using the IP stack, but only supports the serial interface. So, I rolled my own VT320 emulator (I call it "V-Tel"), which has been tested with VMS, True64, and Linux, and which supports the serial interface directly as well as through PsiMail's TCP/IP stack. Editors like vi or TPU do work, MONITOR SYSTEM on VMS is lacking the graphics character set yet, but all control sequences are interpreted properly. Perhaps I find the time to add double-width/double-height characters and the semi-graphics font during Christmas holidays. It may be a bit late to put V-Tel up as shareware, and it may be a bit too early for the Series 3 to be discussed here, but if somebody is still looking for a portable terminal, this solution works very well for me. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Tue Dec 3 05:19:01 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: RL02 Disk Cartridge Problems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1038914428.14972.0.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> On Mon, 2002-12-02 at 23:50, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I'd go for possibly a dislodged "tach magnet" (really they mark sectors > IIRC). I'd _really_ doubt it's got anything to do with what's written on > the pack (see below). > Where should the "tach magnet" be? > A good check would be to listen for the heads to load into the pack. If > they're not loading, then there's no way that the data can be the source > of the problem. > I don't believe the heads are loading. At least, I can't hear them do so. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From allain at panix.com Tue Dec 3 08:25:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: OT: _spam_ (Fred N. van Kempen) References: <3DEBBE29.32400.156D9920@localhost> Message-ID: <006801c29ad8$05019b40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> To add my 0.02 on the subject. I get about 50 a day. I have records of everything including all the Nigerian scams in case anyone wants to cross-check their spam. I attribute the bulk of it to being on one foreign news mailinglist and the public use of Newsgroups back in Sep-01. It IS true that www cgi's (and prob. asp's) can get your eMail from a page hit, so changing that in your browser is probably an important first step. John A. From allain at panix.com Tue Dec 3 08:27:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: Amazing breakthrough will Decrease your terminal size! References: <3DEBBE29.32400.156D9920@localhost> Message-ID: <006901c29ad8$15580a60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> [Hope the spam joke works] We have been looking at Palm's recently and the news items seem to be that 1./ the Tungsten is too damn expensive and 2./ The Palm m500 has been deeply discounted, to half price, at Staples at least. I've always had respect for the Palm approach of 'small (software) is beautiful'. Seems that there are two great terminal programs for it. The frustration is that the keyboard and the SIO cable won't plug in at the same time. But, there is the irDa port. Anybody know if there's an irDa -> rs232 adaptor out there? John A. From jss at subatomix.com Tue Dec 3 09:33:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: OT: _spam_ (Fred N. van Kempen) In-Reply-To: <006801c29ad8$05019b40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <3DEBBE29.32400.156D9920@localhost> <006801c29ad8$05019b40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <100144627503.20021203093453@subatomix.com> Two things. [0] I'm still working on that ol' web site thing for ClassicCmp. One thing I'm looking at now is integrating the old archives with the new archives, which I've found *is* possible. More importantly, I now know how to spam-protect _every_ address in an archived message -- not just the poster's address. DUH, it's called *sed*! sed -Ee ' s/([^[:space:]]+)@([^[:space:]]+.[^[:space:]]+)/\1 [at] \2/g ' < bad_file > good_file That replaces the '@' in email addresses with ' [at] '. Is that sufficient to fool a harvester, or should a more sophisticated replacement be made? What replacement would that be? [1] I've written a procmail script that makes unknown senders go through a confirmation process similar to subscribing to a mailing list. I established backdoor, unfiltered addresses that I will hand out to companies, one for each business that wants one. That way, if spam starts coming to a particular address, I'll know exactly who is responsible and take appropriate steps. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Tue Dec 3 11:05:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: OT: _spam_ (Fred N. van Kempen) In-Reply-To: <100144627503.20021203093453@subatomix.com> References: <3DEBBE29.32400.156D9920@localhost> <006801c29ad8$05019b40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <100144627503.20021203093453@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <161150122825.20021203110629@subatomix.com> On Tuesday, December 3, 2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > [1] I've written a procmail script that makes unknown senders go through a > confirmation process similar to subscribing to a mailing list. I > established backdoor, unfiltered addresses that I will hand out to > companies, one for each business that wants one. That way, if spam > starts coming to a particular address, I'll know exactly who is > responsible and take appropriate steps. BTW this is for my personal email, not ClassicCmp! :-) -- Jeffrey Sharp From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 3 11:20:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: BBC Domesday project Message-ID: Seems like they finally figured out how to read that BBC Domesday disk: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/2534391.stm What I want to know is how they used "software emulation" to "read" the disc. There had to be some hardware involved somewhere. Anyone have the full story? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Dec 3 11:34:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: OT: _spam_ (Fred N. van Kempen) Message-ID: <200212031735.JAA24264@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "John Lawson" > > > > Since I have never posted anything to Usenet in 11 years, and since I >have always used a Unix shell account running Pine - I get relatively >little spam. There was a case some years ago where some enterprising >HAX0R catted the user directory and got all of Netcom's userids... > > I have never found any correlation between classiccmp ad spam levels... >I curently get one or two Nigerian offers a month, 7-10 Winning Poker ads, >7-10 Home Mortgage Refinance, an/or Ultimate Vacation Offer, and, lately, >once or twice a week, some thoughful person offers to sell me some Stuff >to make my YuNoWhat bigger... I don't know whether to to be flattered or >offended - so I just delete it all. Hi John I'm on two mail list at this email address. I get maybe one Nigerian letter a week but no much else. I have a hotmail address that I also use to post to news groups. I average 14 junk mails a day ( that get through my filters ). If someone is mining this list, I don't see much that is making it my way. News groups are definitely mined and I notice increase in a few days after my posting there. I've started collecting the Nigerian letters. Some are quite clever while others are just copies. One thing I've noticed is that they like to use $20,500,000 as the standard value. This might make a simple way to stop a large percentage of them by filtering the body text for this. Dwight > > I am not including the spam that filters onto the List itself (as a >recipient), I am citing the examples that are addressed to me personally. >Actually I get spam through Panix itself, the Lists I'm subscribed to, and >personal spam - at a ratio of about 40/40/20 percent. Even at that, it >amounts to 10 or 15 a week, and the DEL key kills 'em all, save for the >few creative or utterly moronic amateur examples that I file away. > > > Just now there's a news item circulating as to how we can expect a >coming barrage of spam, and also as to how various Big Retailers are >gearing up to flood our collective mailboxen. And you thought you hated >Sanford Wallace sufficiently... > > Cheers > >John > > From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 3 11:40:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? In-Reply-To: <3DEB3FAD.8020707@Vishay.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > I prefer the Series 3 over the Series 5 because there is no pen. I > always fear leaving scratches on the display... The Series 3 was awesome as well. I remember agonizing over the decision between the Series 3 and two other organizers (one was the Sharp Zaurus, the other may have been the HP OmniGo). I spent at least a couple hours in Office Depot (major US office supply chain) playing with each one. In the end, the Psion won because of it's GUI, 16-bit sound, and the fact that it had it's own scripting language (OPL) making it easily and immediately hackable. I don't use the stylus a whole lot with my Series 5 anyway (my finger works just as well) but it doesn't scratch the surface when I do. > For the "dumb terminal" topic, there used to be a good VT100 emulator > from a company called Yellow Software for the 3a (also runs on 3c / > 3mx). I bought it together with my first 3a and was a happy user of both. I can't remember what serial applications I used my 3a for, but I have the 3link serial dongle so I must have used it for something. The Series 5 is great because all you need is the cable (no dongle necessary). I had it hooked up to my wireless modem (when it was still around, RIP) and coupled with the Psion web browser it made for an awesome mobile internet terminal. > Since then, the need for Telnetting into a host came up, and the trouble > is that Yellow's emulator is not capable of using the IP stack, but only > supports the serial interface. I have a very good Telnet program on my Series 5 called Hermes. It's fantastic. I used to be able to Telnet into my server at 85MPH ;) > So, I rolled my own VT320 emulator (I call it "V-Tel"), which has been > tested with VMS, True64, and Linux, and which supports the serial > interface directly as well as through PsiMail's TCP/IP stack. Editors > like vi or TPU do work, MONITOR SYSTEM on VMS is lacking the graphics > character set yet, but all control sequences are interpreted properly. > Perhaps I find the time to add double-width/double-height characters and > the semi-graphics font during Christmas holidays. This is for the Series 3? Gnarly! > It may be a bit late to put V-Tel up as shareware, and it may be a bit > too early for the Series 3 to be discussed here, but if somebody is > still looking for a portable terminal, this solution works very well for me. The Series 3 is definitely a classic in my book. It's already been relegated to the collection (though it still sits in my office). I wrote a program that would produce the "Red Box" tones to fool US payphones into giving you free calls. It worked wonderfully. Sometimes people would look at me strangely as I held my palmtop up to the receiver of the phone. I'm sure they thought something nefarious was afoot. Ah, the good old days. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 3 11:43:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: OT: _spam_ (Fred N. van Kempen) In-Reply-To: <100144627503.20021203093453@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > Two things. > > [0] I'm still working on that ol' web site thing for ClassicCmp. One thing > I'm looking at now is integrating the old archives with the new > archives, which I've found *is* possible. More importantly, I now know > how to spam-protect _every_ address in an archived message -- not just BTW, I must say that the new site looks quite pretty. > the poster's address. DUH, it's called *sed*! sed rocks! > That replaces the '@' in email addresses with ' [at] '. Is that > sufficient to fool a harvester, or should a more sophisticated > replacement be made? What replacement would that be? Something more sophisticated needs to be implemented. Looking for an "[at]" separator is part of the spammer arsenal. > [1] I've written a procmail script that makes unknown senders go through a > confirmation process similar to subscribing to a mailing list. I > established backdoor, unfiltered addresses that I will hand out to > companies, one for each business that wants one. That way, if spam > starts coming to a particular address, I'll know exactly who is > responsible and take appropriate steps. Cool. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 3 11:46:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: OT: _spam_ (Fred N. van Kempen) In-Reply-To: <200212031735.JAA24264@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > I've started collecting the Nigerian letters. Some are > quite clever while others are just copies. One thing After you receive about 2-3 of these, how can any after be deemed to be "clever"?? Now THIS is clever: Scamming the Nigerian scammers. The Brad Christensen Exhibit http://www.quatloos.com/brad-christensen.htm Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Dec 3 11:48:01 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: OT: _spam_ (Fred N. van Kempen) In-Reply-To: <006801c29ad8$05019b40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <3DEBBE29.32400.156D9920@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021203120922.02ca50a0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that John Allain may have mentioned these words: >To add my 0.02 on the subject. > >I get about 50 a day. I have records of everything including all >the Nigerian scams in case anyone wants to cross-check their >spam. I used to until I designed my own spam filter -- as I'm co-owner for an ISP, I needed to make sure there were as few false positives as possible. The only downside is you need to be: 1) the admin of your mailserver (it's a server-side solution) 2) running qmail (the best MTA on the planet...) & Perl 3) running PostgreSQL [not absolutely necessary, but works a lot better] 4) some time to get the automagic filters rolling... I went from 50-150 spams/day down to 4-9 (6 being about average) - I wrote programs to take all the doublebounce messages, extract the relevant IP addresses, put 'em in a postgres database, then run reports on the data, and block those IP addresses automagically. The load on our mailserver went from a .69 average to a .27 once it was up & rolling... http://www.30below.com/~zmerch/qmail/spambad.cfm -- if this'll help anybody... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Dec 3 12:39:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:18 2005 Subject: OT: Spam Volume [Long] References: <3DEBBE29.32400.156D9920@localhost> <5.1.0.14.0.20021203002337.02bb4700@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <3DECFA4F.7020704@jetnet.ab.ca> Mike Ford wrote: > Only spam that currently is bothering me is the asian stuff I can't read > a bit of, so I don't know how to reject it. > > I am thinking I need to surf with the browser setup using a temporary > email address or something. > delete still works :) If you filter the money,fat and sex ads tht covers 90% of my spam. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Dec 3 12:51:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: BBC Domesday project In-Reply-To: Sellam Ismail "BBC Domesday project" (Dec 3, 1:22) References: Message-ID: <10212031851.ZM2130@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 3, 1:22, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Seems like they finally figured out how to read that BBC Domesday disk: > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/2534391.stm > > What I want to know is how they used "software emulation" to "read" the > disc. There had to be some hardware involved somewhere. > > Anyone have the full story? I don't know what exactly they did, but I do know that several people who have working laservision players offered to lend one. It's just a Philips laservision player, as still used by video buffs, but with a SCSI interface. Of course, you'd need software to make sense of the directory structure, so perhaps the "emulation" part was something to run the Video Filing System developed for the BBC Micro, or some equivalent. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Dec 3 13:45:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: BBC Domesday project Message-ID: <200212031946.LAA24401@clulw009.amd.com> >From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com > >On Dec 3, 1:22, Sellam Ismail wrote: >> >> Seems like they finally figured out how to read that BBC Domesday disk: >> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/2534391.stm >> >> What I want to know is how they used "software emulation" to "read" the >> disc. There had to be some hardware involved somewhere. >> >> Anyone have the full story? > >I don't know what exactly they did, but I do know that several people who >have working laservision players offered to lend one. It's just a Philips >laservision player, as still used by video buffs, but with a SCSI >interface. > >Of course, you'd need software to make sense of the directory structure, so >perhaps the "emulation" part was something to run the Video Filing System >developed for the BBC Micro, or some equivalent. > >-- >Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > Hi If they had the player, why not use an original BBC Micro to read things? Dwight From jss at subatomix.com Tue Dec 3 14:18:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: OT: _spam_ (Fred N. van Kempen) In-Reply-To: <006801c29ad8$05019b40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <3DEBBE29.32400.156D9920@localhost> <006801c29ad8$05019b40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <68161731647.20021203141957@subatomix.com> On Tuesday, December 3, 2002, John Allain wrote: > It IS true that www cgi's (and prob. asp's) can get your eMail from a page > hit, so changing that in your browser is probably an important first step. However, some browsers (e.g. IE) don't ask you for an email address. Therefore I think it is unlikely that they can transmit that information. And, really, why does a WWW browser need to know that in the first place? -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Tue Dec 3 14:45:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: Web Site Question (was: OT: _spam_) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1163343986.20021203144650@subatomix.com> On Tuesday, December 3, 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > BTW, I must say that the new site looks quite pretty. Thanks, but I wasn't satisfied. Since then I've moved on to other looks. What I need to know is this: Should the ClassicCmp web site look new/fancy or retro/simple? In a way, I want to have a simple/retro look. Recent ideas I've had include this one (semi-fancy): http://www.subatomix.com/etc/classiccmp/webdocs/ and this one (retro): http://www.subatomix.com/etc/classiccmp2/ -- Jeffrey Sharp From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Dec 3 15:00:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: OT: _spam_ (Fred N. van Kempen) In-Reply-To: <68161731647.20021203141957@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Tuesday, December 3, 2002, John Allain wrote: > > It IS true that www cgi's (and prob. asp's) can get your eMail from a page > > hit, so changing that in your browser is probably an important first step. > > However, some browsers (e.g. IE) don't ask you for an email address. > Therefore I think it is unlikely that they can transmit that information. > > And, really, why does a WWW browser need to know that in the first place? Many web browsers include e-mail clients which use the information for the sender address. My preference is to use never use browsers that do more than browse, or at least to enter bogus information for mail address. Now... if you're using IE, I'd not be surprised if it already has access to your e-mail details from Outlook. Given how trivial it is for virus writers to exploit the security weaknesses in both IE and in Outlook--in particular to pillage the Outlook addressbook for the purpose of self-propogation--it would be just as easy for clever spammers to use those same weaknesses to harvest e-mail addresses. What's depressing is that you don't even have to run Outlook to be a victim; you only need to know someone who has your address in their Outlook addressbook. Spam doesn't bother me too much, as I've the righteous tools of Unix, pine, procmail, and access to a variety of freely available Bayesian inspired spam filtering tools on my side. :-) -brian. From marvin at rain.org Tue Dec 3 15:02:00 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: Web Site Question (was: OT: _spam_) References: <1163343986.20021203144650@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3DED1C0C.89CF4039@rain.org> Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > Should the ClassicCmp web site look new/fancy or retro/simple? > > In a way, I want to have a simple/retro look. > > Recent ideas I've had include this one (semi-fancy): > http://www.subatomix.com/etc/classiccmp/webdocs/ > and this one (retro): > http://www.subatomix.com/etc/classiccmp2/ While I like both, I tend to prefer the simple/retro look as it fits on one screen comfortably. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Dec 3 16:27:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: Web Site Question (was: OT: _spam_) In-Reply-To: <1163343986.20021203144650@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > Recent ideas I've had include this one (semi-fancy): > http://www.subatomix.com/etc/classiccmp/webdocs/ > and this one (retro): > http://www.subatomix.com/etc/classiccmp2/ The first looks very nice in my graphical browsers, but it doesn't format so well in lynx. The second is much nicer in lynx, but is a less pretty in the graphical browsers. I favor the first. I really like the look you're going for with it; the visual elements you've used serve to aid the function of the site. You're partitioning separate functional areas and using the design to focus attention on relevant bits. Some websites are really overpowering and visually noisy; yours is quite clean. But I think--given the nature of ClassicCmp--it'd be nice to have it render a bit friendlier for text based browers like lynx. It is possible to design a site that looks decent in both types of browsers. Slashdot, somewhat surprisingly, looks decent in lynx. The http://WWW.NetBSD.ORG/ site is another good example. -brian. From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 3 16:48:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: BBC Domesday project In-Reply-To: <10212031851.ZM2130@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Peter Turnbull wrote: > I don't know what exactly they did, but I do know that several people who > have working laservision players offered to lend one. It's just a Philips > laservision player, as still used by video buffs, but with a SCSI > interface. > > Of course, you'd need software to make sense of the directory structure, so > perhaps the "emulation" part was something to run the Video Filing System > developed for the BBC Micro, or some equivalent. Sounds like simply another case of a clueless reporter. My guess is that "emulation" actually means "they wrote new drivers". Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 3 16:51:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: Web Site Question (was: OT: _spam_) In-Reply-To: <1163343986.20021203144650@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Tuesday, December 3, 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > BTW, I must say that the new site looks quite pretty. > > Thanks, but I wasn't satisfied. Since then I've moved on to other looks. > What I need to know is this: > > Should the ClassicCmp web site look new/fancy or retro/simple? I really like the current look. It's classy and has a retro element with that strip up top of the page. > In a way, I want to have a simple/retro look. It's elegant and light. It works well. Just throw a PDP-8 and papertape up there somewhere and you're golden. > Recent ideas I've had include this one (semi-fancy): > http://www.subatomix.com/etc/classiccmp/webdocs/ Too busy. I got dizzy looking at all the information. Plus, who will update the news links? > and this one (retro): > http://www.subatomix.com/etc/classiccmp2/ Ugh! Too simple. And lime green looks nice on my Fender-Rhodes 73, but not on this web page. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dittman at dittman.net Tue Dec 3 17:11:01 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: PDT-11/150 on eBay Message-ID: <200212032312.gB3NCb4e022359@narnia.int.dittman.net> In the list of stuff in this lot there's a PDT-11/150 listed: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2077944579 -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Dec 3 17:13:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: Auction Finds Today for the Collection Message-ID: <00ca01c29b21$caf512c0$7160ec42@oemcomputer> 1) hp900 800/G30 with tape drive and cd-rom drive not tested yet. 2) IBM type 4055 terminal not tested yet. 3) PE Nelson terminals (2) model 1020GC+ (PERKIN ELMER) 4) Gateway Astro all-in-one computer first one I had seen. Will need some parts and work to get it back up again. Have finished going thru all the boxes yet so there more goodies to be found. From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Dec 3 17:17:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: Web Site Question (was: OT: _spam_) In-Reply-To: from "Jeffrey Sharp" at Dec 03, 2002 02:46:50 PM Message-ID: <200212032318.gB3NIrt25954@shell1.aracnet.com> > Thanks, but I wasn't satisfied. Since then I've moved on to other looks. > What I need to know is this: > > Should the ClassicCmp web site look new/fancy or retro/simple? > > In a way, I want to have a simple/retro look. > > Recent ideas I've had include this one (semi-fancy): > http://www.subatomix.com/etc/classiccmp/webdocs/ > and this one (retro): > http://www.subatomix.com/etc/classiccmp2/ I say retro/simple. I don't like new/fancy as such layouts tend to get in the way of usability. Having looked at all three, I rather like the current, but think it would look better without the busy graphic below the black CLASSICCMP line. Of the other two, I prefer the 'retro' one, but would recommend white instead of pale green. One thing I like is a page that simple and looks/works good under both Netscape/Mozilla/IE, and Lynx. For example my DEC Emulation site works just fine under Netscape/Mozilla/IE, and works pretty good under Lynx. http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/decemu.html It's also a very low bandwidth site in that it is pretty basic HTML, with almost no graphics. Zane From at258 at osfn.org Tue Dec 3 18:04:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: Help Needed with Non-profit Status In-Reply-To: <004801c29a3a$79820520$be60ec42@oemcomputer> Message-ID: I don't remember what the C4 organisations are, could they be private trusts? If you follow the regualtions, you pretty much are told which category you belong in. C3 does require public support, I believe. On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Keys wrote: > I'm trying to get all the paper work done before the end of the (2002) to > get non-profit status from the IRS and the State (TX). I can't decide which > is the best between a 501(c)3 or a 501(c)4 organization? Which did most of > you that have filed use for your computer museum? Any other help with task > would be great. Thanks in advance. > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 3 18:07:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: RL02 Disk Cartridge Problems In-Reply-To: <1038883320.7450.13.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> from "Christopher McNabb" at Dec 2, 2 09:42:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1960 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021203/025adadd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 3 18:08:24 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: RL02 Disk Cartridge Problems In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Dec 2, 2 10:01:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1807 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021203/3e28ebde/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 3 18:09:47 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: RL02 Disk Cartridge Problems In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Finnegan" at Dec 2, 2 11:50:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1114 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021203/1987235c/attachment.ksh From patrick at evocative.com Tue Dec 3 18:42:00 2002 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: RL02 Disk Cartridge Problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tony, Do RL02's have a servo platter? I recall working with 300 and 600MB multi-platter packs, on which one entire surface was reserved for "servo" to help the head actuator establish track-to-track position. On many occasions I'd see CDC drives load and then immediately retract heads and abort to fault state if it couldn't read the servo platter, the net of which was usually a 10-platter doorstop with a pretty plastic cover. ;-) Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 4:03 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: RL02 Disk Cartridge Problems > > > > While I'm not Tony, I spent some time last year slaving over > the RL02 (and > > RLV12, RL8A) printsets, and I can tell you that the drive _doesn't_ care > > what data is recorded on the disk. Fundamentally, the RL01/02 is a > > fairly 'dumb' drive. Other than the sector marking magnets on the hub of > > the disk, the drive is fairly undiscriminating. The only real circuits > > between the read/write head and the ports on the back of the drive are > > read and write amps (and write gate, etc). > > Be careful. The drive most certainly uses the servo signals recorded > between the sectors. These are read by the normal heads/read ampifiers, > and then passed to the drive logic board. If those are missing/mangled, > the heads can't go on-track. > > But he drive most certainly doesn't try to do anything with the user > data, including the headers and checksums. That's all handled by the > controller. > > > A good check would be to listen for the heads to load into the pack. If > > they're not loading, then there's no way that the data can be the source > > of the problem. > > Agreed. Let's see what those heads are doing. > > -tony > > From at258 at osfn.org Tue Dec 3 18:45:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: Latest Rescue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I just returned from rescuing a ca 1980 Wang VS-90 from a factory in Yorklyn, Delaware. The 90 is a fairly rare single processor version of the big VS-100, and was replaced with the VS-85 at an early date because it was not a very popular model, although a number were used by the US Govt in the island territories, often, I was told, with huge battery banks because the power supply was very undependable. This VS-90 is attributed to commerce raider Victor Posner who at one point owned 64 Wang mainframes. Rather a nice system. Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Tue Dec 3 19:07:01 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: RL02 Disk Cartridge Problems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1038964100.16476.5.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> On Tue, 2002-12-03 at 18:52, Tony Duell wrote: > > Spin up this pack. Do the heads ever move? If so, what do they do. > Yup, the heads move in, sit for about a second, then the drive faults. My guess at this point is that the disk was bulk erased or the servo signals were removed in some other fashion.. :-( The question is, Is there any way to get the servo signals re-recorded, or have I just spent 9.95 plus shipping on a "Piece of Artwork" -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Dec 3 19:17:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: RL02 Disk Cartridge Problems In-Reply-To: <1038964100.16476.5.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> References: <1038964100.16476.5.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <3099.4.20.168.170.1038964759.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > The question is, Is there any way to get the servo signals re-recorded, > or have I just spent 9.95 plus shipping on a "Piece of Artwork" In general, if you have a disk with blown servo signals, you're screwed. Writing the servo signals requires uncommon and very expensive equipment. From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Dec 3 19:29:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: RL02 Disk Cartridge Problems In-Reply-To: <3099.4.20.168.170.1038964759.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <1038964100.16476.5.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> <3099.4.20.168.170.1038964759.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: I am wondering if an accurate and technical description of the RL02 servo tracks and (maybe) a description of how they are actually applied exists anywhere... the ultimate object being possibly modifying an existing RL02 drive to write these tracks. Anyone with any concrete info regarding this? I modified a 5 1/4" floppy to write the special 'spiral' tracks used by an old music sampler when the parent company went out of business... the same problem existed as above, but in a different manifestation. If the writing heads width is the same, I am wondering if a drive couldn't be modified to write servo tracks....? Cheers John From glenslick at hotmail.com Tue Dec 3 20:16:01 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: HP 1000 diag library on 7900A disc Message-ID: Jay, Do you have the ability to make a raw sector dump of a 7900A disc cartridge to a file that can be read by a PC? I'm not sure how that would work, maybe dump the 7900A disc cartridge to 9-track tape and read the tape with a PC compatible tape drive, or something like that? I seem to recall seeing some HP 1000 disk image files that were 20MB or so on the web somewhere but can't find them now, so I think this can be done. Anyway, if you could dump the HP 1000 diag library 7900A disc to a PC readable file, I think the individual diagnostic images could probably be extracted from it. If I read the diag manual right they should just be saved on disk in standard absolue binary format, but with a three word header which forms a linked list to the cyl/head/sector of the next diag image in the list. (This is from the Diagnostic Configurator reference manual, p/n 02100-90157) -Glen >From: "Jay West" >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: >Subject: Re: HP 2784B Paper Tape Reader on ebay >Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 07:55:52 -0600 > >I have the complete HP diag library on 7900A disc cartridge. I can copy it >to another 7900A disc cartridge, but then of course you have to have a >7900A >drive to read it. I don't think the disc based diags can be copied to mag >tape or paper tape, I seem to recall the diag manual saying this wasn't >possible due to different formats. IF I've got it backwards (tape to disc >vs. disc to tape), then it can be done but only if you boot up DOS or RTE >first and use it to do the copies. > >Jay West _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Dec 3 20:23:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: Latest Rescue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I just returned from rescuing a ca 1980 Wang VS-90 from a factory in > Yorklyn, Delaware. Excellent. It is nice to know that something scarce that is non-DEC/HP/DG/Sun/SGI/IBM is being saved... > This VS-90 is attributed to commerce raider Victor Posner who at one point > owned 64 Wang mainframes. Rather a nice system. OK, I think you need to tell more. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From glenslick at hotmail.com Tue Dec 3 20:27:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: Microprofessr MPF-1 Manuals? Message-ID: Thanks for posting the schematics. That will save me the trouble of figuring out how the keypad and LED display are wired up and make it easier to figure out the code which scans the keypad and drives the display. -Glen >From: "Davison, Lee" >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: "'cctalk@classiccmp.org'" >Subject: RE: Microprofessr MPF-1 Manuals? >Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 09:09:26 -0000 > >Glen, > > > Does anyone have manuals for the MultiTech Microprofessor MPF-1B? > >I have the manauals and listings but not online. Diagrams ar available >at http://members.lycos.co.uk/leeedavison/z80/mpf1/ . If the machine >you have is the 1B then it should have the BASIC EPROM in the second >socket (U7). > >Cheers, > Lee. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From loedman1 at juno.com Tue Dec 3 22:45:01 2002 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: OT: _spam_ (Fred N. van Kempen) Message-ID: <20021203.204434.-474139.1.loedman1@juno.com> I use http://www.spamcop.net to deal with the porn and some of the more annoying spammers. They do a great job of tracking down the actual origination, sorting out and discarding all of the false addresses and providing the proper abuse reporting site, even better , it is free but you can pay if you wish Rich >> This has come up many times before and if it was true we would all >be receiving the same spam. Most of my spam lately has been from >people promoting how you can make millions of dollars on the i-net >f I just send $25 to this person who must have time enough from >making MILLIONS to spam others for 25 bucks, or the African >government scam where if I will allow them to use my acount I can >share in the MILLIONS secreted in an African account. Haven't even >got one lately from the Viagra people promising a new day if only I >try thier penile assistance, or SEXY NUDE TEENS ,awaiting my >perusal at a minimal fee. >Newsgroups or websites are still rich areas to harvest and I don't >think we are a big enough source to glean, as yet. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Dec 3 23:44:01 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: Latest Rescue References: Message-ID: <007401c29b58$79fe4710$1843cd18@D73KSM11> > > I just returned from rescuing a ca 1980 Wang VS-90 from a factory in > > Yorklyn, Delaware. > > Excellent. It is nice to know that something scarce > that is non-DEC/HP/DG/Sun/SGI/IBM is being saved... > > > This VS-90 is attributed to commerce raider Victor Posner who at one point > > owned 64 Wang mainframes. Rather a nice system. > > OK, I think you need to tell more. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > And show more - how about a picture or two? From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Dec 4 01:17:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: OT: _spam_ (Fred N. van Kempen) In-Reply-To: References: <68161731647.20021203141957@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3DED5893.15792.4547158@localhost> I use Pegasus as my mailer, but it is entered as the email program in the program defaults. How likely is it that this could be exploited by programs that usually attack Outlook. Lawrence > On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > On Tuesday, December 3, 2002, John Allain wrote: > > > > It IS true that www cgi's (and prob. asp's) can get your eMail from > > > a page hit, so changing that in your browser is probably an > > > important first step. > > > > However, some browsers (e.g. IE) don't ask you for an email address. > > Therefore I think it is unlikely that they can transmit that > > information. > > > > And, really, why does a WWW browser need to know that in the first > > place? > > Many web browsers include e-mail clients which use the information for > the sender address. My preference is to use never use browsers that do > more than browse, or at least to enter bogus information for mail > address. > > Now... if you're using IE, I'd not be surprised if it already has access > to your e-mail details from Outlook. Given how trivial it is for virus > writers to exploit the security weaknesses in both IE and in Outlook--in > particular to pillage the Outlook addressbook for the purpose of > self-propogation--it would be just as easy for clever spammers to use > those same weaknesses to harvest e-mail addresses. > > What's depressing is that you don't even have to run Outlook to be a > victim; you only need to know someone who has your address in their > Outlook addressbook. > > Spam doesn't bother me too much, as I've the righteous tools of Unix, > pine, procmail, and access to a variety of freely available Bayesian > inspired spam filtering tools on my side. :-) > > -brian. > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Dec 4 05:17:00 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: XT Clone with a bus board? In-Reply-To: <48C17694-0480-11D7-AF27-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3DEDF31D.2896.6C038926@localhost> > I ran across an old XT clone with bus board in it instead of a true > motherboard. I have never seen an IBM PC compatible computer like this > before. Is this common? I have several XT's, but all the ones I have > ever seen had an actual motherboard. I just thought this was an > interesting machine. I have some pictures of it - > http://24.194.68.104/computerland_xt.html. Does anyone know anything > about this? Were there other PC's made like this? Well, I don't know about this particular unit, but one of the bigger players over here, Siemens, did all their PCs, starting from the first 286 AT compatible PCD-2 until the Pentiums only as Slot CPUs - one of the advantage where quite slim desktops. I liked most the fact of easy upgrades. Just take out the 286 and replace it with a 386 ... and so on. As for the manufacuring parti using a backplane design is a huge advantage, since you can modularize all of your systems to a very extreme end. The very same CPU can be used in a pizza box, a cash register, a small desktop, a tower or a server system. Especialy for the non-PC applications you may acomplish the needs of your customers by using a standard parts without the need to put a bulky PC case along with the apliance. I think with Pentium IIs they changed to regular Motherboards. Backplane PCs are a big thing for controll/automation systems. You'll get a wide vareity of boards (CPUs, backplanes, etc.) from dozends of supplieers. For example take a look at http://www.advantech.com/products/sub_category.asp?Category_ID=1@29977 Most systems are still ISA (AT) based, which is, at least for this segment, a perfect fit. Of course you'll also get PCI and even VLB backplanes. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Dec 4 08:17:00 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: Web Site Question (was: OT: _spam_) Message-ID: I'd agree that the current layout is good. Next, I'd go with the fancier one, but both are _too pastel_. How 'bout some good, saturated colors? -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy [mailto:healyzh@aracnet.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 5:19 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Web Site Question (was: OT: _spam_) Having looked at all three, I rather like the current, but think it would look better without the busy graphic below the black CLASSICCMP line. Of the other two, I prefer the 'retro' one, but would recommend white instead of pale green. From at258 at osfn.org Wed Dec 4 08:43:01 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: Latest Rescue In-Reply-To: <007401c29b58$79fe4710$1843cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: I'm going to try to get some shots as we unload today. There are 5 2265's and 2 2209's as well as some 5570 series printers. (The infamous DataProducts B600's. On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > I just returned from rescuing a ca 1980 Wang VS-90 from a factory in > > > Yorklyn, Delaware. > > > > Excellent. It is nice to know that something scarce > > that is non-DEC/HP/DG/Sun/SGI/IBM is being saved... > > > > > This VS-90 is attributed to commerce raider Victor Posner who at one point > > > owned 64 Wang mainframes. Rather a nice system. > > > > OK, I think you need to tell more. > > > > William Donzelli > > aw288@osfn.org > > > And show more - how about a picture or two? > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Dec 4 09:00:00 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: Web Site Question (was: OT: _spam_) In-Reply-To: <1163343986.20021203144650@subatomix.com> References: Message-ID: <3DEE2772.13125.6CCFF5DA@localhost> > On Tuesday, December 3, 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > BTW, I must say that the new site looks quite pretty. > Thanks, but I wasn't satisfied. Since then I've moved on to other looks. > What I need to know is this: > Should the ClassicCmp web site look new/fancy or retro/simple? > In a way, I want to have a simple/retro look. > Recent ideas I've had include this one (semi-fancy): > http://www.subatomix.com/etc/classiccmp/webdocs/ > and this one (retro): > http://www.subatomix.com/etc/classiccmp2/ Well, I'd definitly prefer the simple style (I wouldn't call it retro). Why ? well 1. there is even on a dual PIII 750 workstation a visible faster rendering process (it's instant) 2. Data size - 3 K vs. 15 K 3. last but not least, it's well usable with literaly any browser, including text browsers, and of course versions for handicaped (*1) and browsers on classic hardware. Go for the simple one! Gruss H. (*1) A special kind of handicaped are mobile users ... -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From allain at panix.com Wed Dec 4 09:32:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: HP/Dec/Sun... vs Oddballs References: <1038964100.16476.5.camel@www.4mcnabb.net><3099.4.20.168.170.1038964759.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <004c01c29baa$7bad5d60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Hi, I have a Wicat 68000 class mini with manuals, Eagle SMD drive(s) and Pertec tape controller from about 1982 that I've kept for three years because of its magtape support. Over that time I've built up DEC systems to do the same function. Support for SMD is still missing, but that's OK. This is a nice working system with at least 10X the power of a PC of that era, and a great workable OS. With space at a premium for me (this is a one-rack system), I'm letting everyone here know that I intend to toss the system in 30 days if there are no takers. A pretty horrifying thought to some, but this represents practicality on my part. If anyone wants to be a taker or knows any others, even worldwide, who might be interested, drop me a note. I will be taking no action on this until well after 01-Jan, so everyone can have happy holidays. John A. From allain at panix.com Wed Dec 4 09:46:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: Web Site Question (was: OT: _spam_) References: <3DEE2772.13125.6CCFF5DA@localhost> Message-ID: <005501c29bac$2a59bec0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> It Is possible to code HTML for a kind of 'infinite backwards compatibility', that is, each new function that an old browser doesn't support just vanishes, but the text remains... So, if you are clever and have too much time on your hands, you can make a "modern" site that retains this text content while the bells and whistles fall off. This isn't a thing since that actually makes you code the page twice. It's more like making an image that looks as good in B&W as it does in color, with the same pixels. All being said, code the fancy one, make a sed script that strips it down to a basic level so you need only spend 10 minutes cleaning that one up for final approval, then make the basic one default and put a link on that page to the fancy one, for the modern visitors. If any of this is too much work: do the basic. John A. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Dec 4 09:49:02 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: STM Pied Piper In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0211290115140.26761-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEIEMOCEAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Sellam Ismail > Sent: 29 November 2002 09:16 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: STM Pied Piper > > > drive *case* but no drive or other internals so I'm wondering if there's > > something I can make up since I've already got spare floppy drives > > themselves. > > I'm sure it's a standard 360K floppy drive. It is, a Mitsubishi M4853. It's the cable I'm more interested in since it obviously carries drive power as well as signals. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From fm.arnold at gmx.net Wed Dec 4 09:51:53 2002 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: Reformatting TU58-Tapes, (was: HP Protocol Analyzers ) Message-ID: <PM-CH.20021201134853.76531.2.1D@mail.gmx.net> Eric Smith wrote: > >Anyhow, the big problem with reformatting them for use on other systems >is that there is no known way to format them back into TU58 tapes if >you ever need any. :-( > >And I could definitely use some TU58 tapes, but not if they've been >formatted into something else. > I once got a "TU58i" Monitor-program in an EPROM that replaces the original firmware of a TU58, and then should provide the ability to (re)format a TU58 or DC100 cartridge in a normal TU58 drive. Anybody ever heard of this? I still should have it somewhere around although I didn't use it myself, so I have no practical experience of it. But if anyone is interested to experiment with it, I would try to dig it out one of many boxes in my garage marked with: "interesting things, sort out some day". Frank From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Dec 4 09:54:37 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: Microprofessr MPF-1 Manuals? In-Reply-To: <F59ZqYW8BYXifWoqFXf000006c6@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEAENDCEAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> Which manuals are you after? I recently did a trade with Rich Beaudry who used to post on this list, and I gave him a photocopy of the user manual so if you ask him nicely he might photocopy it again or scan it. The other 2 manuals I haven't done copies of, and can't ATM 'cos I'm unemployed! cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Glen Slick > Sent: 30 November 2002 23:20 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Microprofessr MPF-1 Manuals? > > > The -IP model has a full qwerty keyboard and 20 character alphanumeric > 14-segment display instead of just a keypad and 7-segment LED > displays so I > assume the monitor code would be significantly different. > > > > >From: "John R. Keys Jr." <jrkeys@concentric.net> > >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >To: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > >Subject: Re: Microprofessr MPF-1 Manuals? > >Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 17:07:39 -0600 > > > >I have a new in the box MPF-IP not sure if it's close to your IB? But in > >the box is a new User's manual (170+ pages) and a Monitor Program Source > >Listing manual that's 69 pages long. Just looked again and there is a > >101 page Experiment manual (software/hardware) in the box also. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Dec 4 09:57:25 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: Hazel is home! In-Reply-To: <000901c2994b$3d1309d0$1219d7d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <63589F57-057E-11D7-BC08-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Sunday, December 1, 2002, at 10:06 AM, Mike wrote: > My Altair collection has just gone through the roof! Several months > ago I > posted some pictures of an Altair setup with the MITS Pertec harddisk > and > MITS harddisk controller once I picked up its trail. After much deal > hacking and bitchy whining, its mine! > > I made a webpage at http://dogas.freecyberzone.com/Hazel.htm Check > out its > 8x300 based MITS HD Controller. Wow, that is a *gorgeous* machine. Congratulations! :-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire "You don't have Vaseline in Canada?" St. Petersburg, FL -Bill Bradford From bwfile at yahoo.com Wed Dec 4 10:00:22 2002 From: bwfile at yahoo.com (Ez Dc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: Replacement Power Supply for old Toshiba Laptop? Message-ID: <20021202035501.1584.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, I'm new here, and I've got a problem with an old Laptop. I just purchased a Toshiba T5200 in a flea market, which can be seen here... http://web.ukonline.co.uk/zelandeth/computers/t5200-100/ ...and I bought it for $1! A total bargain, but...unsurprisingly, it's broken...kinda broken. I've opened it up to determine the cause of what's wrong with it, as it won't turn on. A little tinkering later, and, boom, the power supply of the Laptop fries itself up. Damage looks bad, and it stinks really bad...a poisonous sort of smell, so I've thrown the offending power supply to the garbage. Now I have a laptop...with no power supply. But, is it possible to buy a replacement power supply for this? Or, is it even possible to just hook it up to a regular PC's power supply? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 4 10:04:15 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: TI 99/4a in box available Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212020105410.4202-100000@siconic.com> See below. Contact original sender. Reply-to: <ggarber@tampabay.rr.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 19:31:05 -0500 From: Greg Garber <ggarber@tampabay.rr.com> Subject: old computer Hi, I found an old "Texas Instruments Home Computer 99/4A" in the attic of the house I purchased two years ago. It seems to be in pretty good condition, although I don't know if it works as I have not plugged it in. There is one game in the box. Not sure if all the cords are there, but I know the power cord is in the box. (Box is not in great shape). Anyway, if you tell me it is junk, I'll trash it. I've had it for 2 years so I can wait for you to respond. thanks...greg garber -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From nerdware at ctgonline.org Wed Dec 4 10:07:14 2002 From: nerdware at ctgonline.org (nerdware@ctgonline.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: OT - Thinkpad 760CD In-Reply-To: <3DE93F68.DCAA1ECA@allwest.net> Message-ID: <3DEB4AAE.7774.BCB763@localhost> On 30 Nov 2002, at 15:44, Martin Marshall wrote: > "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > > > I've got a IBM 760CD Thinkpad that I want to try and replace the HD with a > > larger one that I have on hand. After looking over the laptop carefully, > > and trying to find info on the IBM website I'm left with one important > > question. How on earth do I replace a HD on this model? > > > > Zane > > Start at: > > http://www.ibm.com/support/us/ > > Click on Online Publications (on left), then select the model, etc. > Select Hardware Maintenance Manual (8 MB pdf file). Look at FRU > replacement - the keyboard has hinges at the rear and lifts from the > front. The drive is under the keyboard. > > Martin What he said. That, plus the drive is in a little carrier. If you get a bare drive to replace it with, you'll need to do a few things to open the cannister and replace the drive. Very carefully lift the labels that act as seals, then gently pry the plastic shell outwards and lift the metal shield out. (I think you need to remove two screws on the header first, then be careful while you remove the shield and drive. The header should just hang on it's little ribbon cable.) You should be able to pry the drive from the internal header, and replace it with the new drive. Then carefully put all the other pieces back, re-stick the labels ( or use electrical tape if you removed the labels) and tighten up the screws on the external header. Then pop the drive back in and go. I've had a 760x and currently have a 760xd (that's what I'm using right now) and have replaced drives on both. Or, you could mail 'em to me, I'll do the swap, and mail 'em back, no charge. Paul Braun Cygnus Productions nerdware@ctgonline.org From aek at spies.com Wed Dec 4 10:10:02 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: 8" Hard drive on PC Message-ID: <200212030051.gB30p8FR002841@spies.com> > All I'm really interested in is getting the data (mostly ASM source)on the > hard drive onto a PC. I also have boxes full (heaps!) of 8" floppies for > this system that I'd like to get the data off and over to a PC It would be helpful if you could identify the floppy interface in the system. It's probably an IBX daughter card. They are probably 1024 byte sectored MFM encoded, I assume for RMX ? HD recovery, as people have said, is more difficult. From aek at spies.com Wed Dec 4 10:12:56 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: 8" Hard drive on PC Message-ID: <200212030105.gB315ZQB004566@spies.com> some of the possible floppy controllers in your box might be: iSBX 218 8272 (DD) iSBC 208 8237/8272 (DD) iSBC 204 8257/8271 (SD) From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Dec 4 10:15:40 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: BBC Domesday project In-Reply-To: "Pete Turnbull" <pete@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> "Re: BBC Domesday project" (Dec 3, 20:38) References: <200212031946.LAA24401@clulw009.amd.com> <10212032038.ZM2182@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <10212032045.ZM2196@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 3, 11:46, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >I don't know what exactly they did, but I do know that several people who > >have working laservision players offered to lend one. It's just a Philips > >laservision player, as still used by video buffs, but with a SCSI > >interface. > > > >Of course, you'd need software to make sense of the directory structure, so > >perhaps the "emulation" part was something to run the Video Filing System > >developed for the BBC Micro, or some equivalent. > If they had the player, why not use an original BBC Micro to > read things? I have no idea. Unless they needed something more sophisticated or powerful to extract all the data (a collection of still images, video, sounds, cartographic data, geophysical data, text, etc) along with the indexing, in such a way as to preserve the data, its layout, and the cross-referencing. Normal use wouldn't do that. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From loki at visi.com Wed Dec 4 10:18:29 2002 From: loki at visi.com (PT) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: Xerox 860 IPS looking for a good home Message-ID: <002901c29b1b$7b00afa0$6501a8c0@EDDIE> Hi there, I'm not a member of the list, I found it through a Google search, but I'm trying to find a home for a Xerox 860 IPS that I have. Its been in storage for the last few years in my garage, but as far as I know it works (although I haven't turned it on in a very long time). I have the model with the portrait style screen, and I also have a daisy wheel printer, the system disks, word processing software, and the user manuals. There's even a slew of 8" disks that would go with it as well. I'd rather give this to an enthusiast, rather than just throwing it away. Its really a cool system and I think deserves better than that. I live in Saint Paul, Minnesota, so keep that in mind. This thing is hideously expensive to ship anywhere; it'd have to be picked up. Thanks, Let me know if anyone would like this beastie. Also, because I'm not on the list you should respond to my home e-mail rather than to just the list; otherwise, I won't see your response. -Pat Thielen- _______________________________________________________________ Axolotyl Studios Wildlife, Portrait and Fine Art Photography www.axolotyl-studios.com loki@visi.com ICQ #10509612 _______________________________________________________________ "Now that's entertainment!" -Vlad Tepes- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021204/7c7eb3cf/attachment.html From jss at subatomix.com Wed Dec 4 10:22:06 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: HP/Dec/Sun... vs Oddballs In-Reply-To: <004c01c29baa$7bad5d60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <m18JMpm-000IzUC@p850ug1> <1038964100.16476.5.camel@www.4mcnabb.net><3099.4.20.168.170.1038964759.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212032024450.4568-100000@panix3.panix.com> <004c01c29baa$7bad5d60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <26232301932.20021204095608@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, December 4, 2002, John Allain wrote: > I have a Wicat 68000 class mini with manuals ... SQ (Standard Question): Where? -- Jeffrey Sharp From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Dec 4 10:34:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: OT: _spam_ (Fred N. van Kempen) In-Reply-To: <3DED5893.15792.4547158@localhost> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212032336110.19921-100000@haiku.jarai.net> On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > I use Pegasus as my mailer, but it is entered as the email program > in the program defaults. How likely is it that this could be exploited > by programs that usually attack Outlook. Most all the e-mail nasties out there specifically target Outlook, so I'd say that, depending on the features supported by Pegasus, you're likely to be rather safe. Of course, if someone decided to write something targeted at Pegasus Mail, you might be out of luck. The other thing to do is toss IE. Various types of "spyware" software have been making tech news headlines for the past year or so. It's possible to end up with one of these on your system simply by visiting the wrong website. All the ones I've heard about, so far, are being used by various unsavory corporations to gather information on the "infectee's" computer usage habits. There's nothing preventing a more malicious individual from developing one of these to raid the addressbooks of any mail client software you've installed. Admittedly, that's certainly one of the kinder things such software could do with your system. In order to protect yourself, if you're running Windows at home, I'd say it's mandatory to have solid anti-virus software installed, anti-spam software, and home firewall software, like Zone Alarm. The later prevents the bad guys from getting in, and also prevents and notifies you of unauthorized access going out of your network (very handy for detecting spyware or other unwanted activity on your network). Do you really want to spend money--effectively you're paying a Microsoft incompetence tax--on that extra software to secure your network? Especially when you could be using those dollars to buy more classic computer hardware? -brian. From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Dec 4 10:42:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:19 2005 Subject: OT - Thinkpad 760CD In-Reply-To: <3DEB4AAE.7774.BCB763@localhost> References: <3DEB4AAE.7774.BCB763@localhost> Message-ID: <200212041144.00469.jcwren@jcwren.com> You can get these drive carriers on eBay for $5 or $7. I also bought 5 3GB drives in carriers for $50 a while back. All new, still sealed in the antistatic envelope. A lot of ThinkPads use this same format. --John On Monday 02 December 2002 12:57, nerdware@ctgonline.org wrote: > On 30 Nov 2002, at 15:44, Martin Marshall wrote: > > "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > > I've got a IBM 760CD Thinkpad that I want to try and replace the HD > > > with a larger one that I have on hand. After looking over the laptop > > > carefully, and trying to find info on the IBM website I'm left with one > > > important question. How on earth do I replace a HD on this model? > > > > > > Zane > > > > Start at: > > > > http://www.ibm.com/support/us/ > > > > Click on Online Publications (on left), then select the model, etc. > > Select Hardware Maintenance Manual (8 MB pdf file). Look at FRU > > replacement - the keyboard has hinges at the rear and lifts from the > > front. The drive is under the keyboard. > > > > Martin > > What he said. That, plus the drive is in a little carrier. If you get a > bare drive to replace it with, you'll need to do a few things to open > the cannister and replace the drive. > > Very carefully lift the labels that act as seals, then gently pry the > plastic shell outwards and lift the metal shield out. (I think you > need to remove two screws on the header first, then be careful > while you remove the shield and drive. The header should just hang > on it's little ribbon cable.) > > You should be able to pry the drive from the internal header, and > replace it with the new drive. Then carefully put all the other pieces > back, re-stick the labels ( or use electrical tape if you removed the > labels) and tighten up the screws on the external header. Then pop > the drive back in and go. > > I've had a 760x and currently have a 760xd (that's what I'm using > right now) and have replaced drives on both. > > Or, you could mail 'em to me, I'll do the swap, and mail 'em back, > no charge. > > > > Paul Braun > Cygnus Productions > nerdware@ctgonline.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 4 11:17:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: Web Site Question (was: OT: _spam_) In-Reply-To: <EFCC02DCB43BE04989267F883F7237870B443B@denmails1.jdedwards.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212040119150.11936-100000@siconic.com> On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Feldman, Robert wrote: > I'd agree that the current layout is good. Next, I'd go with the fancier > one, but both are _too pastel_. How 'bout some good, saturated colors? Saturated colors are so 90s. It's the new millenium, man. Pastel is in! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 4 11:20:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: HP/Dec/Sun... vs Oddballs In-Reply-To: <004c01c29baa$7bad5d60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212040120520.11936-100000@siconic.com> On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, John Allain wrote: > I have a Wicat 68000 class mini with manuals, Eagle SMD > drive(s) and Pertec tape controller from about 1982 that I've > kept for three years because of its magtape support. Over that > time I've built up DEC systems to do the same function. Support > for SMD is still missing, but that's OK. This is a nice working > system with at least 10X the power of a PC of that era, and a > great workable OS. With space at a premium for me (this is a > one-rack system), I'm letting everyone here know that I intend to > toss the system in 30 days if there are no takers. A pretty > horrifying thought to some, but this represents practicality on my > part. How heavy is it? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Dec 4 11:23:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: Replacement Power Supply for old Toshiba Laptop? In-Reply-To: <20021202035501.1584.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021202035501.1584.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212041213370.21779-100000@panix1.panix.com> Re the Toshiba T5200.... Try www.acsparts.com though I see no 5200 stuff listed, probably because it's getting rather old for such support. They have provisions to e-mail them with your request, as they have many items not listed but still in stock. I have a Toshiba 420CD Satellite which I blew up in a foreign country when the line voltage went to 300+ during the night while it was charging. The same thing happened - the internal inverter let out the Magic Smoke and died. The replacement inverter was $45 from acsparts, but I bought a more current laptop instead and use the older on at home in a static mode - ie. it sits in one place and never moves, so I wired up a 15VDC 2A power supply (which is the internal power bus of that particular model) and bypassed the inverter entirely. It works fine, battery stays charged, etc. All this being said - I have seen several T5200 changing hands recently, and if the price is under pnds /5 or maybe /10 if it's complete with all accessories and a lot of software, then you can't go too wrong. Remember it's a momchrome 386 with a 100M hard-to-find HD, so it depends on your intended use as to what value you might place on one. Cheers John From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 4 11:25:46 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: Xerox 860 IPS looking for a good home In-Reply-To: <002901c29b1b$7b00afa0$6501a8c0@EDDIE> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212040124560.11936-100000@siconic.com> On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, PT wrote: > I'm not a member of the list, I found it through a Google search, but > I'm trying to find a home for a Xerox 860 IPS that I have. Its been in > storage for the last few years in my garage, but as far as I know it > works (although I haven't turned it on in a very long time). I have the > model with the portrait style screen, and I also have a daisy wheel > printer, the system disks, word processing software, and the user > manuals. There's even a slew of 8" disks that would go with it as well. > I'd rather give this to an enthusiast, rather than just throwing it > away. Its really a cool system and I think deserves better than that. I > live in Saint Paul, Minnesota, so keep that in mind. This thing is > hideously expensive to ship anywhere; it'd have to be picked up. I really hope someone rescues this. It will be worth it. There are probably not too many left. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From spc at conman.org Wed Dec 4 11:29:29 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: Web Site Question (was: OT: _spam_) In-Reply-To: <005501c29bac$2a59bec0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Dec 04, 2002 10:45:25 AM Message-ID: <200212041729.MAA06696@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great John Allain once stated: > > It Is possible to code HTML for a kind of 'infinite backwards > compatibility', that is, each new function that an old browser > doesn't support just vanishes, but the text remains... So, if > you are clever and have too much time on your hands, you > can make a "modern" site that retains this text content while > the bells and whistles fall off. This isn't a <noframes> thing > since that actually makes you code the page twice. It's more > like making an image that looks as good in B&W as it does > in color, with the same pixels. Use minimal HTML and use CSS to do the fancy layouts, colors and fonts. My online journal/blog [1] uses straightforward HTML (no tables!) and for browsers that support CSS, you get a nice left hand column of links, plus a wider right hand column of content. With a browser that doesn't support CSS (and I've hidden the CSS from Netscape 4x as its support of CSS is laughably buggy) you get all the content first, then at the bottom of the page all the links that are in (obstensibly) the left hand column. There are ways of specifying alternative images (as I seem to recall) but I suspect the method only works on newer browsers like Mozilla 1x, Opera 7 or IE 6x (if at all). > If any of this is too much work: do the basic. Use HTML as a structured language, forget about using <TABLE> (unless for actual tabular data) and <FONT> tags and you can use style sheets after the fact to spruce up the page. -spc (There are some amazing things you can do with CSS ... ) [1] http://boston.conman.org/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Dec 4 12:28:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: Web Site Question (was: OT: _spam_) In-Reply-To: <005501c29bac$2a59bec0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212041028260.5083-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> Do it black and white. Do it in text. If anybody "NEEDS" color and pictures, they can take crayons and color their own screens. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Dec 4 12:32:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: Replacement Power Supply for old Toshiba Laptop? In-Reply-To: <20021202035501.1584.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212041029480.5083-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> On Sun, 1 Dec 2002, Ez Dc wrote: > bad...a poisonous sort of smell, so I've thrown the > offending power supply to the garbage. Now I have a > laptop...with no power supply. But, is it possible to By throwing away the dead power supply, you now no longer have the special, hard to come by connectors, nor any of the multitudinous parts that weren't bad. NEVER throw parts away until AFTER the repair is complete. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Dec 4 12:39:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: Web Site Question (was: OT: _spam_) References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212041028260.5083-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> Message-ID: <3DEE4BD6.4070201@jetnet.ab.ca> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Do it black and white. > > Do it in text. > > > If anybody "NEEDS" color and pictures, they can take crayons and color > their own screens. > But I can't color inside the lines. PS. I like the new layout better because it looked easyier to navigate. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Dec 4 13:47:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: SGI GDM-20D11 monitor? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021204145327.588f2522@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found two SGI "granite" monitors for $5 in a surplus place this morning. Does anyone know if these will work with the SGI Indigo? (XS-24 video card.) I tried them but I'm not getting any video and I'm not sure if these are both bad or if they're even supposed work with the Indigo. I checked the SGI and Indigo FAQs and can't find anything about exactly what systems the monitors are compatible with. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Dec 4 13:52:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: Paging Dave Mabry Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021204145647.21d7db9e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Dave, I sent a reply to you but I'm getting an error. You may need to send me another address. Joe <dmabry@mich.com>... Deferred: 452 Can't connect to mich.com - psmtp 451 4.4.1 reply: read error from mich.com.bignet.mail2.psmtp.com. From red at bears.org Wed Dec 4 13:59:01 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: SGI GDM-20D11 monitor? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021204145327.588f2522@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20021204145327.588f2522@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212041458431.23122-100000@instinct.bears.org> On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Joe wrote: > I found two SGI "granite" monitors for $5 in a surplus place this > morning. Does anyone know if these will work with the SGI Indigo? > (XS-24 video card.) I tried them but I'm not getting any video and > I'm not sure if these are both bad or if they're even supposed work > with the Indigo. I checked the SGI and Indigo FAQs and can't find > anything about exactly what systems the monitors are compatible with. Yeah, those should work just fine on the Indigo. I assume your Indigo is known operational, and that you have a suitable cable. Do the monitors just not display a picture, or do they not even exit power-save? ok r. From allain at panix.com Wed Dec 4 14:02:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: HP/Dec/Sun... vs Oddballs References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212040120520.11936-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <008f01c29bcf$fccb1b60$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >> I have a Wicat 68000 class ... (this is a one-rack system)... > How heavy is it? This is all IIRC, but should be right since I hand carried it all at one time. System unit (real lightweight design for its 19" size) <70 lbs; Power supply (small so easy to carry) ~30 lbs; Fujitsu Eagle ~125 lbs; fan box <20 lbs. John A. From Innfogra at aol.com Wed Dec 4 14:43:00 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: Xerox 860 IPS looking for a good home Message-ID: <144.42cebd5.2b1fc353@aol.com> This is a classic Xerox Word Processing system from the early 1980s. It should be saved. It sounds like it is a great setup and complete with the full page monitor and printer. It would make a great museum exhibit. We were scrapping these in 1990. There are few around. I may have some of the boot software disks in my storage although this system is complete with software and extras. Paxton Astoria, OR From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 4 15:27:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: Xerox 860 IPS looking for a good home In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212040124560.11936-100000@siconic.com> from "Sellam Ismail" at Dec 04, 2002 01:25:26 AM Message-ID: <200212042129.gB4LT9V12844@shell1.aracnet.com> > I really hope someone rescues this. It will be worth it. There are > probably not too many left. There probably aren't that many left, I can't remember if I've still got some doc's for one, or if I gave them to Jim Willing. It's a good thing I've never actually gotten my hands on a physical machine. It wouldn't be safe with me, I learned to hate them when I updated an entire book on one in the late 80's (I *SO* prefered MUSE on the Harris Mini, or Word Perfect on my Laptop). Still, as much as I hate 860's, it's an interesting machine and worth savin. So keep it away from me :^) Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 4 15:32:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: OT - Thinkpad 760CD In-Reply-To: <200212041144.00469.jcwren@jcwren.com> from "J.C.Wren" at Dec 04, 2002 11:44:00 AM Message-ID: <200212042132.gB4LWXv13043@shell1.aracnet.com> > You can get these drive carriers on eBay for $5 or $7. I also bought 5 3GB > drives in carriers for $50 a while back. All new, still sealed in the > antistatic envelope. A lot of ThinkPads use this same format. Any recommendation on what to search for? I wouldn't mind trying to find a second carrier as I'd like to be able to continue to use the drive I have. Zane From fire at dls.net Wed Dec 4 15:37:00 2002 From: fire at dls.net (fire@dls.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: Solaris 2.4 Message-ID: <20021204213902.55BCC9B15@nemesis.dls.net> I have old Sparc Sun machine which I would like to run on Solaris 2.4, not newer. I have Solaris 8 from a few years ago when I paid Sun $75 for CDs but I do not want to run this version or the 2.5 I have from another machine. Does anyone have Solaris 2.4 CDs that they could sell or copy for me? Please note that I am not looking to violate copyright law but I do need to get 2.4 and not some later or earlier version of Solaris. Alternatively, does anyone know anyplace where I could obtain Solaris 2.4? (I have watched Ebay for 6 months without seeing a copy of Solaris 2.4 for sale) Bradley Slavik From kth at srv.net Wed Dec 4 15:40:01 2002 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: PDP-11 Message-ID: <3DEE798D.4070407@srv.net> I have a PDP11/83 looking for a good home. Located in Idaho Falls, Idaho. PDP-11/83 TSV05 tape drive (and lots of tapes) TK50 tape drive DHV11's RD54 Corporate cabinet (Approx 4' x 4' x 2.5') plus other stuff. Too large/heavy to ship cheaply, much better to pick up if you live close. From martinm at allwest.net Wed Dec 4 15:47:00 2002 From: martinm at allwest.net (Martin Marshall) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: OT - Thinkpad 760CD References: <200212042132.gB4LWXv13043@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <000e01c29bdf$4422f870$0101a8c0@computerroom2> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@aracnet.com> To: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 2:32 PM Subject: Re: OT - Thinkpad 760CD > > You can get these drive carriers on eBay for $5 or $7. I also bought 5 3GB > > drives in carriers for $50 a while back. All new, still sealed in the > > antistatic envelope. A lot of ThinkPads use this same format. > > Any recommendation on what to search for? I wouldn't mind trying to find a > second carrier as I'd like to be able to continue to use the drive I have. > > Zane > > Thinkpad caddy Martin From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Dec 4 15:50:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: OT - Thinkpad 760CD Message-ID: <000101c29bdf$189a8fb0$020010ac@k4jcw> "thinkpad caddy" yields some hits. Like this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2076264418 --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 16:33 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT - Thinkpad 760CD > You can get these drive carriers on eBay for $5 or $7. I also bought 5 3GB > drives in carriers for $50 a while back. All new, still sealed in the > antistatic envelope. A lot of ThinkPads use this same format. Any recommendation on what to search for? I wouldn't mind trying to find a second carrier as I'd like to be able to continue to use the drive I have. Zane From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 4 15:57:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: RL02 Disk Cartridge Problems In-Reply-To: <NABBLBMGIPBIOFEOPLODIEJFJNAA.patrick@evocative.com> Message-ID: <20021204215901.18680.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Patrick Rigney <patrick@evocative.com> wrote: > Tony, > > Do RL02's have a servo platter? No. The RL01 and RL02 drives use embedded servo. If the heads won't load, I would also suspect that the RPM isn't detected within limits. I didn't know there was an active component in the cartridge, but if it were missing or dislodged, that could account for the symptoms. I know more about the innards of the RK05, and it uses a cut aluminum hub and a hall sensor to detect sectors - the cartridge is passive. The gap in the hub rim triggers the hall sensor and a new sector begins. I guess the RL01/RL02 must have a similar mechanism, but with magnets, not gaps. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Dec 4 16:25:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: Reformatting TU58-Tapes, (was: HP Protocol Analyzers ) In-Reply-To: <PM-CH.20021201134853.76531.2.1D@mail.gmx.net> References: <PM-CH.20021201134853.76531.2.1D@mail.gmx.net> Message-ID: <3008.4.20.168.170.1039040811.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I once got a "TU58i" Monitor-program in an EPROM that replaces the > original firmware of a TU58, and then should provide the ability to > (re)format a TU58 or DC100 cartridge in a normal TU58 drive. Anybody > ever heard of this? Conventional wisdom holds that it's not possible to format TU58 cartridges, but I've long suspected that DEC must have had alternate firmware for in-house use for this purpose. From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Wed Dec 4 16:28:28 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: Amazing breakthrough will Decrease your terminal size! References: <3DEBBE29.32400.156D9920@localhost> <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212022125190.1830-100000@panix3.panix.com> <006901c29ad8$15580a60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3DEE81D7.80701@Vishay.com> John, maybe this is what you're looking for? Check out fig. 9! http://www.vishay.com/docs/irdc_design_boards.pdf John Allain wrote: > Anybody know if there's an irDa -> rs232 adaptor out there? -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From allain at panix.com Wed Dec 4 16:33:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: PDP-11 References: <3DEE798D.4070407@srv.net> Message-ID: <03c901c29be5$0178b860$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Which Operating System might it be running? John A. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Dec 4 16:43:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: My first good find!!! Message-ID: <000b01c29be6$ed574ca0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Hi all, I'm currently in a very good mood because I've found a Jupiter Ace in near-mint condition, complete with 16k RAMPack, intro tape and a copy of the book "Jupiter Ace FORTH Programming" by Steven Vickers. All this, including the polystyrene box for the rampack (and rampack instructions) cost me the rather feeble sum of two British pounds. Now, there is a catch. The machine didn't come with a power supply. So, can someone with an Ace, working PSU and a multimeter please tell me what the polarity and voltage of the PSU's output is? I'm hesitant to power up the Ace in case I end up fouling up the settings, with fairly predictable results. Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 4 17:04:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: HP/Dec/Sun... vs Oddballs Message-ID: <BAY1-F1145G6MuKgW6O00008be3@hotmail.com> Where are you??? Wicats are *COOL*!! Will J _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From ian_primus at yahoo.com Wed Dec 4 17:18:00 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: HP/Dec/Sun... vs Oddballs In-Reply-To: <BAY1-F1145G6MuKgW6O00008be3@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <F8352AE4-07DE-11D7-B6B2-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Yeah, same here. I'm interested too, but it would have to be nearby. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Wednesday, December 4, 2002, at 06:04 PM, Will Jennings wrote: > Where are you??? Wicats are *COOL*!! > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Wed Dec 4 17:22:03 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: Psion PDAs (was Re: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?) References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212030133310.8371-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <3DEE8E2D.3000903@Vishay.com> Sellam, you're talking in the past? - I am still using my Psion 3mx every day, from typical PDA functions (contacts, agenda etc.) through several spreadsheet applications and a technical reference information base up to my shopping list (you should see the other visitors stare in the supermarket! ;-) and games. What OPL can do becomes obvious with some applications, your "Red Box Emulator" is another example. V-Tel is also written in OPL. If I only had the time to complete the setup program for configuration of my private phone system... Too bad that the infrared interface (3c, 3mx) was built too early to conform to all relevant IRDC standards, but if I can locate some information from the Psion SDK, there might be a solution... As for the RS232 interface, the "soap on rope" cable used with the 3/3a was changed into something that looks like a simple cable for the later models (3c/3mx), I think it might be the same type as for the Series 5, with a small flat connector at the PDA end instead of the 3-by-2 Berg-style plug. And the display: yes, I know the pen is designed not to harm the display, but I cannot help feeling like it might scratch, though - absolutely personal opinion, of course. I tried a Series 5, but compared to the Series 3, it didn't do enough to justify the switch: not even the Opera browser could do what I was looking for, so I gave up and kept the 3mx. Andreas Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > > >>I prefer the Series 3 over the Series 5 because there is no pen. I >>always fear leaving scratches on the display... > > > The Series 3 was awesome as well. I remember agonizing over the decision > between the Series 3 and two other organizers (one was the Sharp Zaurus, > the other may have been the HP OmniGo). I spent at least a couple hours > in Office Depot (major US office supply chain) playing with each one. In > the end, the Psion won because of it's GUI, 16-bit sound, and the fact > that it had it's own scripting language (OPL) making it easily and > immediately hackable. > > I don't use the stylus a whole lot with my Series 5 anyway (my finger > works just as well) but it doesn't scratch the surface when I do. > > >>For the "dumb terminal" topic, there used to be a good VT100 emulator >>from a company called Yellow Software for the 3a (also runs on 3c / >>3mx). I bought it together with my first 3a and was a happy user of both. > > > I can't remember what serial applications I used my 3a for, but I have the > 3link serial dongle so I must have used it for something. The Series 5 is > great because all you need is the cable (no dongle necessary). I had it > hooked up to my wireless modem (when it was still around, RIP) and coupled > with the Psion web browser it made for an awesome mobile internet > terminal. > > >>Since then, the need for Telnetting into a host came up, and the trouble >>is that Yellow's emulator is not capable of using the IP stack, but only >>supports the serial interface. > > > I have a very good Telnet program on my Series 5 called Hermes. It's > fantastic. I used to be able to Telnet into my server at 85MPH ;) > > >>So, I rolled my own VT320 emulator (I call it "V-Tel"), which has been >>tested with VMS, True64, and Linux, and which supports the serial >>interface directly as well as through PsiMail's TCP/IP stack. Editors >>like vi or TPU do work, MONITOR SYSTEM on VMS is lacking the graphics >>character set yet, but all control sequences are interpreted properly. >>Perhaps I find the time to add double-width/double-height characters and >>the semi-graphics font during Christmas holidays. > > > This is for the Series 3? Gnarly! > > >>It may be a bit late to put V-Tel up as shareware, and it may be a bit >>too early for the Series 3 to be discussed here, but if somebody is >>still looking for a portable terminal, this solution works very well for me. > > > The Series 3 is definitely a classic in my book. It's already been > relegated to the collection (though it still sits in my office). > > I wrote a program that would produce the "Red Box" tones to fool US > payphones into giving you free calls. It worked wonderfully. Sometimes > people would look at me strangely as I held my palmtop up to the receiver > of the phone. I'm sure they thought something nefarious was afoot. Ah, > the good old days. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From rhudson at cnonline.net Wed Dec 4 17:51:00 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: Comodore 64 / 1541 commands ??? Message-ID: <8AFC9C01-07E3-11D7-8196-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Hey I just got a Commodore and a 1541 floppy drive I know load "$",8 loads a catalog of what's on the disk and load "name",8 will load something from the floppy and I assume save "name",8 will save it But how do I format the disk and prepare it for use? Thanks for your help... Ron. From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Dec 4 18:02:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: Doc help for HP9000 800/G30 Message-ID: <014001c29bf1$d0990cb0$a564ec42@oemcomputer> I tried a google and HP website search for documentation on the 800/G30 G-Class server and could not find any. Does anyone else know were a PDF is? I would like to learn more the server I got yesterday and get it up and running. Thanks in advance for any help. From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Wed Dec 4 18:05:00 2002 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: TI Modulators In-Reply-To: <8AFC9C01-07E3-11D7-8196-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20021204190549.01b581f0@pop-server> A while back I bought some modulators for TI 99/4A from someone on this list. I have a need for some more. Does anybody have any they would like to sell? I can use multiples. From ian_primus at yahoo.com Wed Dec 4 18:11:00 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: Comodore 64 / 1541 commands ??? In-Reply-To: <8AFC9C01-07E3-11D7-8196-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <4EE4B820-07E6-11D7-B6B2-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> To format a disk, type PRINT#15, "NEW:name,id" "name" will become the name of the disk, and will show when the directory is listed "id" is a two character id that can be anything. It is written to the directory and on every block. This way, if the disks are changed, the computer will realize it. It's a good idea to put different id's on each disk. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Wednesday, December 4, 2002, at 06:53 PM, Ron Hudson wrote: > > Hey I just got a Commodore and a 1541 floppy drive > > I know > > load "$",8 > > loads a catalog of what's on the disk and > > load "name",8 > > will load something from the floppy > > and I assume > > save "name",8 > > will save it > > But how do I format the disk and prepare it for use? > > Thanks for your help... > > Ron. > From patrick at evocative.com Wed Dec 4 18:24:00 2002 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: Comodore 64 / 1541 commands ??? In-Reply-To: <8AFC9C01-07E3-11D7-8196-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <NABBLBMGIPBIOFEOPLODIENAJNAA.patrick@evocative.com> Ron, check out... http://www.portcommodore.com/commodore/info/diskbasics.html Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Ron Hudson > Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 3:53 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Comodore 64 / 1541 commands ??? > > > > Hey I just got a Commodore and a 1541 floppy drive > > I know > > load "$",8 > > loads a catalog of what's on the disk and > > load "name",8 > > will load something from the floppy > > and I assume > > save "name",8 > > will save it > > But how do I format the disk and prepare it for use? > > Thanks for your help... > > Ron. > > From thompson at new.rr.com Wed Dec 4 18:44:00 2002 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: Comodore 1541 memory map? In-Reply-To: <NABBLBMGIPBIOFEOPLODIENAJNAA.patrick@evocative.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212041844110.5083-100000@malacandra.localnet> Years ago, I used to have a memory map of the 1541's 6502 address space. It had lots of cool internals and ROM entry points. It was on a barely legible, photocopied sheet in tiny type and I believe my copy has been lost to the ages. Has anyone seen this on the web? On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Patrick Rigney wrote: > Ron, check out... > > http://www.portcommodore.com/commodore/info/diskbasics.html > > Patrick > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Ron Hudson > > Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 3:53 PM > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Comodore 64 / 1541 commands ??? > > > > > > > > Hey I just got a Commodore and a 1541 floppy drive > > > > I know > > > > load "$",8 > > > > loads a catalog of what's on the disk and > > > > load "name",8 > > > > will load something from the floppy > > > > and I assume > > > > save "name",8 > > > > will save it > > > > But how do I format the disk and prepare it for use? > > > > Thanks for your help... > > > > Ron. > > > > > -- From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Dec 4 18:51:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: Web Site Question (was: OT: _spam_) In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212041028260.5083-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212041852380.8928-100000@george.home.org> On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Do it black and white. > > Do it in text. > > > If anybody "NEEDS" color and pictures, they can take crayons and color > their own screens. I'm with the Grumpy Guy in the back. Simple = Good Doc From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Dec 4 18:56:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: SP0256-AL2 Speech processor Message-ID: <10212050053.ZM3068@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Was someone looking for one of these recently? I just turned up this reference whilst searching for something else: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1792446194 -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Dec 4 19:02:01 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: Comodore 64 / 1541 commands ??? In-Reply-To: <8AFC9C01-07E3-11D7-8196-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0212041707200.87736-100000@grumble.deltasoft.com> Ummm. Let me give it a shot. :) OPEN15,8,15:PRINT#15,"N0:DISK,ID":CLOSE#15 g. On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Ron Hudson wrote: > > Hey I just got a Commodore and a 1541 floppy drive > > I know > > load "$",8 > > loads a catalog of what's on the disk and > > load "name",8 > > will load something from the floppy > > and I assume > > save "name",8 > > will save it > > But how do I format the disk and prepare it for use? > > Thanks for your help... > > Ron. > > From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 4 19:07:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: Xerox 860 IPS looking for a good home In-Reply-To: <200212042129.gB4LT9V12844@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212040904330.13111-100000@siconic.com> On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > I really hope someone rescues this. It will be worth it. There are > > probably not too many left. > > There probably aren't that many left, I can't remember if I've still got > some doc's for one, or if I gave them to Jim Willing. It's a good thing > I've never actually gotten my hands on a physical machine. It wouldn't be > safe with me, I learned to hate them when I updated an entire book on one in > the late 80's (I *SO* prefered MUSE on the Harris Mini, or Word Perfect on my > Laptop). > > Still, as much as I hate 860's, it's an interesting machine and worth savin. > So keep it away from me :^) I have the keyboard for one. I had to leave one behind in Florida because it was just too dirty (rats had turned it into a multi-level condo for years). I'd take this one if it wasn't such an expensive truck ride away. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 4 19:13:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: Psion PDAs (was Re: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?) In-Reply-To: <3DEE8E2D.3000903@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212040907110.13111-100000@siconic.com> On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > you're talking in the past? - I am still using my Psion 3mx every day, For me I am ;) I don't doubt that you still find your Psion 3 useful. If I didn't have my Series 5 I would still be using my 3a. > What OPL can do becomes obvious with some applications, your "Red Box > Emulator" is another example. V-Tel is also written in OPL. If I only > had the time to complete the setup program for configuration of my > private phone system... Huh? What is V-Tel? Sounds *very* interesting. The "3a Box" program was cool. It also did the Blue Box and Green Box tones (though niether work anymore...it was more for novelty). You chose which tones you wanted from a menu, and then it went to a subroutine for that box. Red and Green box tones were chosen from a menu. Blue Box tones were dialed in and then you hit "Dial" to send them out. I could walk through airports chiming out MF tones. It made heads turn (I wouldn't do that today* ;) Sadly, I believe the source is now lost for good. The harddrive that had the backup files for that Psion has long since crashed and the batteries (main and backup) on my 3a went dead and took the program with it :( * Actually, in the movie Executive Decision with Steven Seagal (the only one he's in where his character dies) and Kurt Russell, the terrorist on the plane is using a Psion 3a as the remote bomb control :) > Too bad that the infrared interface (3c, 3mx) was built too early to > conform to all relevant IRDC standards, but if I can locate some > information from the Psion SDK, there might be a solution... Is it compatible with the Series 5 at least? Probably not as I imagine the Series 5 conforms to standard. > As for the RS232 interface, the "soap on rope" cable used with the 3/3a > was changed into something that looks like a simple cable for the later > models (3c/3mx), I think it might be the same type as for the Series 5, > with a small flat connector at the PDA end instead of the 3-by-2 > Berg-style plug. But I thought the dongle had the actual serial hardware in it, whereas on the Series 5 it is built-in? > And the display: yes, I know the pen is designed not to harm the > display, but I cannot help feeling like it might scratch, though - It doesn't. > absolutely personal opinion, of course. I tried a Series 5, but compared > to the Series 3, it didn't do enough to justify the switch: not even the > Opera browser could do what I was looking for, so I gave up and kept the > 3mx. I didn't realize that was Opera! Cool. One of these days I'm going to get Linux installed on my spare (if I can fix it) just to do it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 4 19:18:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: RL02 Disk Cartridge Problems In-Reply-To: <NABBLBMGIPBIOFEOPLODIEJFJNAA.patrick@evocative.com> from "Patrick Rigney" at Dec 3, 2 04:43:36 pm Message-ID: <m18JjYV-000IzYC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 554 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021204/b94c93fe/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 4 19:22:09 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: RL02 Disk Cartridge Problems In-Reply-To: <1038964100.16476.5.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> from "Christopher McNabb" at Dec 3, 2 08:08:21 pm Message-ID: <m18Jjfa-000IzlC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1492 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021204/0ceb8305/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 4 19:26:24 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: Reformatting TU58-Tapes, (was: HP Protocol Analyzers ) In-Reply-To: <PM-CH.20021201134853.76531.2.1D@mail.gmx.net> from "Frank Arnold" at Dec 1, 2 01:48:53 pm Message-ID: <m18JjCq-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 774 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021204/17b5cddb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 4 19:30:30 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: Replacement Power Supply for old Toshiba Laptop? In-Reply-To: <20021202035501.1584.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ez Dc" at Dec 1, 2 07:55:01 pm Message-ID: <m18JjHX-000IzSC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1145 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021204/2b21eb3c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 4 19:35:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: My first good find!!! In-Reply-To: <000b01c29be6$ed574ca0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> from "Philip Pemberton" at Dec 4, 2 10:46:03 pm Message-ID: <m18JkL8-000IzrC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1819 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021204/9e1c178b/attachment.ksh From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 4 19:39:07 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: SP0256-AL2 Speech processor In-Reply-To: <10212050053.ZM3068@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20021205012610.84102.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Peter Turnbull <pete@dunnington.u-net.com> wrote: > Was someone looking for one of these recently? I just turned up this > reference whilst searching for something else: > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1792446194 Might have been me, but not that exact part... I need an SC-01 to drop into my second Gorf board set. It works great except for no speech. Not looking very hard. Don't need to pay top dollar - have one completely working set. Thanks, though. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From jss at subatomix.com Wed Dec 4 19:48:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <03c901c29be5$0178b860$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <3DEE798D.4070407@srv.net> <03c901c29be5$0178b860$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <71267936572.20021204195005@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, December 4, 2002, John Allain wrote: > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="utf-7" > > ???????????????4??????????? I suggest The Bat as a replacement email client. I use it. It's not all that pretty, but it has a lot of features, and they work. IMHO it's 90% perfect, the best I've seen in an email program. http://www.ritlabs.com/the_bat/index.html -- Jeffrey Sharp From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Dec 4 20:01:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: SGI GDM-20D11 monitor? In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212041458431.23122-100000@instinct.bears.or g> References: <3.0.6.16.20021204145327.588f2522@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021204145327.588f2522@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021204210627.11af5a34@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:01 PM 12/4/02 -0500, you wrote: >On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Joe wrote: > >> I found two SGI "granite" monitors for $5 in a surplus place this >> morning. Does anyone know if these will work with the SGI Indigo? >> (XS-24 video card.) I tried them but I'm not getting any video and >> I'm not sure if these are both bad or if they're even supposed work >> with the Indigo. I checked the SGI and Indigo FAQs and can't find >> anything about exactly what systems the monitors are compatible with. > >Yeah, those should work just fine on the Indigo. > >I assume your Indigo is known operational, and that you have a suitable >cable. Do the monitors just not display a picture, or do they not even >exit power-save? I don't think it's even exiting power save. When I turn it on the power light comes on and there's a click from inside the monitor. After a few seconds the yellow power save light comes on and then I hear another click from inside the monitor. When I turn the Indigo on, it powers up and plays it's tune so I know that it's started but nothing changes on the monitor. I disconnected the video cable at the monitor and looked for sync on pin 3 and found that there was no sync* unless I started the Indigo with no monitor connected. (The sync was 63.something kHz). If I then connected the video cable to the monitor both the yellow power save and green power lights started blinking. *I don't think the lack of sync on pin 3 indicates a problem. This monitor is suppossed to Sync-on-Green. In fact, the lack of sync on 3 when I boot the computer with the monitor connected may well indicate that the computer recognizes that this monitor doesn't use a separate sync signal. The computer is definitely working. After trying these monitors I plugged the video cable into my usual monitor and everything worked exactly as it's supposed to. I was wondering, if I use a logic pulser and pulse the green input on the monitor will it generate random garbage on the screen? Any thoughts on that? Joe > >ok >r. > From ian_primus at yahoo.com Wed Dec 4 20:17:00 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: SGI GDM-20D11 monitor? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021204210627.11af5a34@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <E75E4AD2-07F7-11D7-B6B2-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Sounds like the monitor is getting confused by the other sync signals. I had the same problem trying to connect an SGI Indigo 2 to a standard VGA monitor. I found that by making a simple cable with only pins 1,2,3,6,7, and 8 connected (VGA red, green and blue, and associated grounds). This stripped the extra signals, and it worked flawlessly. I would think an actual SGI monitor would work fine without any modifications though, but then again, it didn't work with my Sun GDM-17E10 monitor without this sort of adapter. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Wednesday, December 4, 2002, at 09:06 PM, Joe wrote: > At 03:01 PM 12/4/02 -0500, you wrote: >> On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Joe wrote: >> >>> I found two SGI "granite" monitors for $5 in a surplus place this >>> morning. Does anyone know if these will work with the SGI Indigo? >>> (XS-24 video card.) I tried them but I'm not getting any video >>> and >>> I'm not sure if these are both bad or if they're even supposed >>> work >>> with the Indigo. I checked the SGI and Indigo FAQs and can't find >>> anything about exactly what systems the monitors are compatible >>> with. >> >> Yeah, those should work just fine on the Indigo. >> >> I assume your Indigo is known operational, and that you have a >> suitable >> cable. Do the monitors just not display a picture, or do they not even >> exit power-save? > > I don't think it's even exiting power save. When I turn it on the > power light comes on and there's a click from inside the monitor. > After a few seconds the yellow power save light comes on and then I > hear another click from inside the monitor. When I turn the Indigo on, > it powers up and plays it's tune so I know that it's started but > nothing changes on the monitor. > > I disconnected the video cable at the monitor and looked for sync > on pin 3 and found that there was no sync* unless I started the Indigo > with no monitor connected. (The sync was 63.something kHz). If I then > connected the video cable to the monitor both the yellow power save > and green power lights started blinking. > > *I don't think the lack of sync on pin 3 indicates a problem. This > monitor is suppossed to Sync-on-Green. In fact, the lack of sync on 3 > when I boot the computer with the monitor connected may well indicate > that the computer recognizes that this monitor doesn't use a separate > sync signal. > > The computer is definitely working. After trying these monitors I > plugged the video cable into my usual monitor and everything worked > exactly as it's supposed to. > > I was wondering, if I use a logic pulser and pulse the green input > on the monitor will it generate random garbage on the screen? Any > thoughts on that? > > Joe > >> >> ok >> r. >> > From blstuart at bellsouth.net Wed Dec 4 20:28:00 2002 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:20 2005 Subject: Reformatting TU58-Tapes, (was: HP Protocol Analyzers ) In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 4 Dec 2002 23:45:24 +0000 (GMT) . <m18JjCq-000IzIC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <m18JlfO-0003ffC@nomad> In message <m18JjCq-000IzIC@p850ug1>, Tony Duell writes: >> I once got a "TU58i" Monitor-program in an EPROM that replaces the original >> firmware of a TU58, and then should provide the ability to (re)format a TU58 > or >> DC100 cartridge in a normal TU58 drive. Anybody ever heard of this? [snip] >If you have the equipment, I am sure many people here would be interested >in a dump of that EPROM... Absolutely. Just about as good would be the algorithm reverse engineered from it. But I can't really imagine that anyone at HP nee Compaq nee DEC would really care about the ROM getting out. Unless, of course, Mentec owns the TU58 ideas now... Brian L. Stuart From jss at subatomix.com Wed Dec 4 20:49:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Web Site Question (was: OT: _spam_) In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212040119150.11936-100000@siconic.com> References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212040119150.11936-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <182271620008.20021204205128@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, December 4, 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Saturated colors are so 90s. It's the new millenium, man. Pastel is in! I like pastel colors. When I was into tweaking around with Linux and *BSD on the desktop, I kept wondering why everyone else had these setups where everything was dark. I couldn't see anything in those screenshots! I seriously doubted that real work could be done with those color schemes. Seriously: Am I the only one who can't see @#$% in this screenshot? http://themes.freshmeat.net/screenshots/21766/ Due to some medical problems (long story), my color vision is kinda squirrely. I have lots of trouble with dark colors; they all look black to me. I can't tell the difference between navy and black slacks in a clothing store, for instance. I think this is why I like light colors. So if the colors are really screwed up on the web site, please let me know. I might not be able to see it. -- Jeffrey Sharp From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Wed Dec 4 21:00:01 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Solaris 2.4 In-Reply-To: <20021204213902.55BCC9B15@nemesis.dls.net> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021204215113.00d7fa24@pop1.epm.net.co> At 03:39 PM 12/4/02 -0600, you wrote: > Does anyone have Solaris 2.4 CDs that they could sell or copy for me? Please > note that I am not looking to violate copyright law but I do need to get 2.4 > and not some later or earlier version of Solaris. The way I remember this, the first release that bore the "Solaris" name when released was 2.5 . Before it was called SunOS, of which the last release was 4.1.4 if I remember correctly. After Solaris 2.5, the previous SunOS 4.x releases were renamed "Solaris 2.4". I think that the list of releases that I played with at one point or another is as follows: SunOS 4.1.1 Rev B SunOS 4.1.4, aka Solaris 2.4 (or was it 4.1.3?) Solaris 2.5 Solaris 2.6 Solaris 2.7 Solaris 8 -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Dec 4 21:04:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Comodore 1541 memory map? In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212041844110.5083-100000@malacandra.localnet> from Paul Thompson at "Dec 4, 2 06:46:12 pm" Message-ID: <200212050315.TAA25834@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Years ago, I used to have a memory map of the 1541's 6502 address space. > It had lots of cool internals and ROM entry points. > > It was on a barely legible, photocopied sheet in tiny type and I believe > my copy has been lost to the ages. Has anyone seen this on the web? On the Web, not yet, but someone is converting Inside Commodore DOS to e-text and that should help considerably. Best reference work on Commodore 1541 DOS I've ever run across, IMHO. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Helmet: But when will Now be Then?!?! Sandurz: Soon. -- "Spaceballs" ------- From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 4 21:11:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Solaris 2.4 In-Reply-To: <no.id> from "Carlos Murillo" at Dec 04, 2002 09:51:13 PM Message-ID: <200212050312.gB53CuT29865@shell1.aracnet.com> > The way I remember this, the first release that bore the "Solaris" > name when released was 2.5 . Before it was called SunOS, of which > the last release was 4.1.4 if I remember correctly. After Solaris 2.5, > the previous SunOS 4.x releases were renamed "Solaris 2.4". I think > that the list of releases that I played with at one point or another is as > follows: I suspect you're wrong, I've got a couple CD's labeled Solaris 1.[something] in my collection. I'm pretty sure I've seen 2.4 cd's before. Zane From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Wed Dec 4 21:15:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Solaris 2.4 Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C6F8@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > The way I remember this, the first release that bore the "Solaris" > name when released was 2.5 . Nope. They did start with SunOS, the last of which being V4.1.4_U1. When they moved to the Solaris name, SunOS got renamed to Solaris 1.1. The U1 release I have here is Solaris 1.1.2 for SPARC, which _is_ SunOS 4.1.4 with the U1 patch kit. I assume that Solaris 1.1.1 (which I also have, somewhere) is either SunOS 4.1.3, 4.1.3_U1 or 4.1.4 without the U1 patch. The first non-SunOS release I believe was V2.3. I have pretty much all releases of Solaris here, and I seem to start with V2.3, and then up, all the way to Solaris 8. That's when I stopped doing Sun, soo.. :) I lost (read: already deleted) the original posting, so.. can whoever started this thread contact me offlist; we'll get you V2.4 :) Cheers, Fred From mbg at TheWorld.com Wed Dec 4 21:18:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Reformatting TU58-Tapes, (was: HP Protocol Analyzers ) References: <PM-CH.20021201134853.76531.2.1D@mail.gmx.net> Message-ID: <200212050319.WAA79076297@shell.TheWorld.com> >> I once got a "TU58i" Monitor-program in an EPROM that replaces the >> original firmware of a TU58, and then should provide the ability to >> (re)format a TU58 or DC100 cartridge in a normal TU58 drive. Anybody >> ever heard of this? > >Conventional wisdom holds that it's not possible to format TU58 >cartridges, but I've long suspected that DEC must have had alternate >firmware for in-house use for this purpose. I once had such an eprom myself... I may still have it somewhere, but we never got a chance to use it. One of the protos I have from way back when is a suitcase pdp-11 with TU58s as the system device. Since it had originally been designed for use by Field Service, it ran a different set of software than any of the traditional OSes, and so used an entirely different EPROM on the TU58 interface board. In order to boot RT, I had to remove that old EPROM (which I believe I saved, somewhere) and installed one from a regular TU58 board... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Dec 4 21:20:47 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Solaris 2.4 In-Reply-To: <200212050312.gB53CuT29865@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212042118220.11414-100000@george.home.org> On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > The way I remember this, the first release that bore the "Solaris" > > name when released was 2.5 . Before it was called SunOS, of which > > the last release was 4.1.4 if I remember correctly. After Solaris 2.5, > > the previous SunOS 4.x releases were renamed "Solaris 2.4". I think > > that the list of releases that I played with at one point or another is as > > follows: > > I suspect you're wrong, I've got a couple CD's labeled Solaris 1.[something] > in my collection. I'm pretty sure I've seen 2.4 cd's before. Yup. I have Solaris 1.1.4 at home. Seems, IIRC, that that corresponds to SunOS 4.2<something>. Doc From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 4 21:24:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Need information on TRSDOS 1.3 internals Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212041123350.13438-100000@siconic.com> Does anyone have any documentation on the data structures of TRSDOS 1.3? Specifically, I'd like to know the catalog structure, as well as the scheme for storing files across multiple sectors. I'm trying to pull some old word processor and perhaps spreadsheet files off some TRSDOS disks using a PC. I already found a utility called READDISK that reads TRS-80 disks on a PC and it worked great. Now I need to extract the files from the image. Is this data published in any of the TRS-80 DOS manuals? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 4 21:31:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Solaris 2.4 In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20021204215113.00d7fa24@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <20021205033329.91309.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Carlos Murillo <carlos_murillo@epm.net.co> wrote: > At 03:39 PM 12/4/02 -0600, you wrote: > > Does anyone have Solaris 2.4 CDs that they could sell or copy for me? > > Please note that I am not looking to violate copyright law but I do need > > to get 2.4 and not some later or earlier version of Solaris. > > The way I remember this, the first release that bore the "Solaris" > name when released was 2.5 . Before it was called SunOS, of which > the last release was 4.1.4 if I remember correctly. After Solaris 2.5, > the previous SunOS 4.x releases were renamed "Solaris 2.4". I think > that the list of releases that I played with at one point or another is > as follows: > > SunOS 4.1.1 Rev B > SunOS 4.1.4, aka Solaris 2.4 (or was it 4.1.3?) > Solaris 2.5 > Solaris 2.6 > Solaris 2.7 > Solaris 8 Right idea, wrong version numbers. SunOS 4.1 was the last major version of SunOS. It was BSD-derived and very comfortable to those of us who grew up on VAXen. While SunOS 4 was still a current product, Sun came out with Solaris 2.1. It's underlying operating system number was 5.1. Solaris 2.2 came out as the "operating environment" that included "SunOS 5.2" and so on. After Solaris had been around for a while, Sun retroactively named SunOS to a Solaris 1 number. I don't recall the exact mapping, but IIRC, Solaris 1.1.1 was also known as SunOS 4.1.3_u1, nearly the last SunOS there was. I _think_ 4.1.4 was called Solaris 1.1.2, but I am digging deep into memory. As for Solaris itself, I never was compelled to use it until about 2.4 came out. There were apparently some radical internal differences up to that point, requiring new third-party product reinstalles, etc., but I was not party to that. I really got my wings with Solaris 2.5.1 and 2.6. I'm running Solaris 8 at home (haven't bothered to go up to 9 yet). So... Solaris 1.x is the new name for SunOS 4.x and Solaris 2.x and up are internally Solaris 5.x, etc. Hope this clarifies things. If not, I'm sure there's a Solaris numbering FAQ at sunhelp.org or someplace similar. -ethan > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Dec 4 21:36:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Solaris 2.4 In-Reply-To: <200212050312.gB53CuT29865@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200212050312.gB53CuT29865@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20021205040616.GD54668@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Zane H. Healy, from writings of Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 07:12:56PM -0800: > I suspect you're wrong, I've got a couple CD's labeled Solaris 1.[something] > in my collection. I'm pretty sure I've seen 2.4 cd's before. I agree with you; my Sun 4/110 is running Solaris 2.4. Not only do the CDs say 2.4, but so does the cardboard package and the documentation. Alas, I have no way to duplicate the 2.4 OS CD, so I can't clone a copy for the person who needs it. :-( (wouldn't mind having a backup copy for my own use as well) From what I recall, this was the highest version of Solaris that the Sun 4 architecture supports. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From doug_jackson at citadel.com.au Wed Dec 4 21:43:00 2002 From: doug_jackson at citadel.com.au (Doug Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Need information on TRSDOS 1.3 internals Message-ID: <B131307C5DEED41180B000105A8532D78B6724@CARMEN> Sellam, I have the set of "inside the TRS-80 xxxx" books. I'm sure that the TRSDOS 1.3 is included. I'll have a look. I can scan anything that you need. Doug Jackson Director, Managed Security Services Citadel Securix +61 (0)2 6290 9011 (Ph) +61 (0)2 6262 6152 (Fax) +61 (0)414 986 878 (Mobile) Web: <www.citadel.com.au> Offices in Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra, Hong Kong, Boston > -----Original Message----- > From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 6:25 AM > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > Subject: Need information on TRSDOS 1.3 internals > > > > Does anyone have any documentation on the data structures of > TRSDOS 1.3? > Specifically, I'd like to know the catalog structure, as well as the > scheme for storing files across multiple sectors. > > I'm trying to pull some old word processor and perhaps > spreadsheet files > off some TRSDOS disks using a PC. I already found a utility called > READDISK that reads TRS-80 disks on a PC and it worked great. > Now I need > to extract the files from the image. > > Is this data published in any of the TRS-80 DOS manuals? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. http://www.citadel.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021204/2e2d59e3/attachment.html From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Dec 4 21:47:52 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Solaris 2.4 In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20021204215113.00d7fa24@pop1.epm.net.co> References: <20021204213902.55BCC9B15@nemesis.dls.net> <3.0.2.32.20021204215113.00d7fa24@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <20021205041528.GE54668@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Carlos Murillo, from writings of Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 09:51:13PM -0500: > The way I remember this, the first release that bore the "Solaris" > name when released was 2.5 . Before it was called SunOS, of which I've got a Solaris 2.4 distribution. > the last release was 4.1.4 if I remember correctly. After Solaris 2.5, Kindly note that what's known as SunOS (e.g. 4.1.1), as the name for the complete OS, was a very different operating system from what is known as Solaris. The former was based on BSD UNIX (and includes the text-only games like adventure! ...like any real distribution of UNIX should), whereas the later is SysV based and was apparently designed to appeal more to the boring and humor-deprived biz 'droids than the hackers. In many ways, I miss my 3/60 running 4.1.1, although I don't miss the slow speed and the many gaping security holes, Y2K problems, etc. Waiting what seemed like hours for something to compile, was, in retrospect, not fun... although it seemed like a fast machine at the time. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From allain at panix.com Wed Dec 4 21:50:41 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: HP/Dec/Sun... vs Oddballs References: <F8352AE4-07DE-11D7-B6B2-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004501c29c11$07e01be0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >> Where are you??? Wicats are *COOL*!! > Yeah, same here. I'm interested too, but it would have to... The unclassified answer is Near the VCFE *wherever* it probably will be. I'm replying to individuals privately with more info. John A. From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Dec 4 21:54:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Need information on TRSDOS 1.3 internals In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212041123350.13438-100000@siconic.com> References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212041123350.13438-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <4431.4.20.168.170.1039060289.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Sellam asks: > Does anyone have any documentation on the data structures of TRSDOS 1.3? > Specifically, I'd like to know the catalog structure, as well as the > scheme for storing files across multiple sectors. I think you want _TRS-80 Disk and Other Mysteries_. That was one of the Mysteries books I didn't have, but ISTR that Al turned up a copy recently. Each track had 10 sectors. They were allocated to files in groups of five, which were called granules or grans. There's a Granule Allocation Table (GAT) which I think was basically an allocation bitmap. In other DOSes for the TRS-80, which had support for higher-capacity disks, the number of sectors per granule was often different. Eric From rhudson at cnonline.net Wed Dec 4 23:20:01 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Comodore 64 / 1541 commands ??? In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0212041707200.87736-100000@grumble.deltasoft.com> Message-ID: <83E492B5-0811-11D7-8196-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Yup, Thanks all! extra props to those who gave me the website! From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Dec 4 23:57:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Need information on TRSDOS 1.3 internals In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212041123350.13438-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212042153530.14355-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Does anyone have any documentation on the data structures of TRSDOS 1.3? > Specifically, I'd like to know the catalog structure, as well as the > scheme for storing files across multiple sectors. > > I'm trying to pull some old word processor and perhaps spreadsheet files > off some TRSDOS disks using a PC. I already found a utility called > READDISK that reads TRS-80 disks on a PC and it worked great. Now I need > to extract the files from the image. > > Is this data published in any of the TRS-80 DOS manuals? The book that you need is "TRS-80 Disk and other Mysteries" by H.C. Pennington. My copy is inaccessible to me until Monday. (in my office at the college) The program that you need is "Hypercross"? or "PCXZap"? by Mike Gingel ("Hypersoft") I'm giving final exams next week, so my schedule is a bit screwed up; If you need help, I'll try to work it in. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 5 00:00:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Need information on TRSDOS 1.3 internals In-Reply-To: <4431.4.20.168.170.1039060289.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212042159100.14355-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > Sellam asks: > > Does anyone have any documentation on the data structures of TRSDOS 1.3? > > Specifically, I'd like to know the catalog structure, as well as the > > scheme for storing files across multiple sectors. > I think you want _TRS-80 Disk and Other Mysteries_. That was one of > the Mysteries books I didn't have, but ISTR that Al turned up a copy > recently. There are a few other books that DO give the info, including some from RS, but Pennington's is the one you want (the equivalent of "Beneath Apple DOS") > Each track had 10 sectors. They were allocated to files in groups of > five, which were called granules or grans. There's a Granule Allocation > Table (GAT) which I think was basically an allocation bitmap. > In other DOSes for the TRS-80, which had support for higher-capacity > disks, the number of sectors per granule was often different. TRS-DOS 2.x (MODEL 1) was 10 sectors per track. TRS-DOS 1.x (model 3) was 18 sectors per track. From trestivo at concentric.net Thu Dec 5 00:27:00 2002 From: trestivo at concentric.net (Thom Restivo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: PDP11 chips on ebay Message-ID: <LOBBLGPOLKHLIKMNDENPAEBPCPAA.trestivo@concentric.net> to all, anyone interested in a set of three chips for the pdp11 visit this link... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2078019983 The chips are the 11/23 CPU ( 57-00000-01A1 ), the KEF11AA floating point ( 57-00001-01A1 ) and the Memory Management Unit ( 21-15542-01 ). These chips are assumed good and are guaranteed not DOA. Replacements available for any chip proven to be non-functional. regards, thom From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Dec 5 00:30:10 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Superb Exidy System on Ebay in Holland In-Reply-To: <m18IFFd-000IzIC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEAEAGCFAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 30 November 2002 21:34 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Superb Exidy System on Ebay in Holland > > > Could you do me some *cough* personal archives for the museum? *cough*. > > It will take me some time to find them (They'll be well burried under > machines I do use...) but I may even have multiple copies of some of the > games.... No hurry, just whenever you may fall over them....... cheers Tony -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From vcf at siconic.com Thu Dec 5 00:32:55 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Need AT&T T7525 codec data sheet (1991-1994) Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212040430050.12427-100000@siconic.com> I think I may have already posted this request but I am still searching for this. I need a data sheet for the AT&T T7525 codec. The document should be dated between 1991-1994, but at this point I'll take any data sheet for that chip. If anyone has this, please e-mail me directly at <sellam@vintage.org>. I need it by the end of the week. There i$ a reward for thi$!! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From sugandhi at optonline.net Thu Dec 5 00:35:47 2002 From: sugandhi at optonline.net (Sugandhi Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: TI Modulators Message-ID: <000e01c29bfb$c79c48c0$b941bd18@zeus> You can pick up new modulators at the following URL: http://www.99er.net/rfmod.html Cheers, Ram -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021205/6f0d3694/attachment.html From mford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 5 00:38:32 2002 From: mford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: SGI GDM-20D11 monitor? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021204145327.588f2522@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20021204145327.588f2522@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <a05111b02ba145a20d621@[192.168.1.101]> > I found two SGI "granite" monitors for $5 in a surplus place this >morning. Does anyone know if these will work with the SGI Indigo? >(XS-24 video card.) I tried them but I'm not getting any video and >I'm not sure if these are both bad or if they're even supposed work >with the Indigo. I checked the SGI and Indigo FAQs and can't find >anything about exactly what systems the monitors are compatible with. > > Joe A quick groups.google.com using gdm-20d11 and indigo produced a number of ads with the items sold together as a working system. Don't forget sync on green for these monitors. My guess is that they don't work, as they can be used on a pc with a cheap adapter and most sellers know they are worth more like $100. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Dec 5 00:41:54 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: TI 990a13 available near Chicago Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212040223390.11982-100000@siconic.com> Is anyone interested in this? Reply to the original sender. See below for info including URL pointer to pictures. Reply-to: <reojeo@hotmail.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" <vcf@siconic.com> To: "Roy Ogren" <reojeo@hotmail.com> Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:31 AM Subject: Re: TI 990a13 > On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Roy Ogren wrote: > > > I have a Texas Instruments model 990/10a (990a13 chassis) and three > > manuals for such, all in very good shape from the 84/85 era. This unit > > ran off two 3 1/2" floppies and was used to diagnose Cummins diesel > > engines. I can send more info and pictures if interested. Would you be > > interested in such an animal or know someone who would be? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:05:46 -0600 From: Roy Ogren <reojeo@hotmail.com> To: Vintage Computer Festival <vcf@siconic.com> Subject: Re: TI 990a13 Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I'm located 25 mi. south of Chicago. This computer was bought around 1985 for around 38 thousand dollars including software and support. It was used to evaluate Cummins diesel engines by running through various sequences measuring the time and pressures it monitored and compared these values with the database loaded. the unit ran from two floppy's, I have to add the software was very buggy and the support program from Cummins engine company did not help much. I have included pictures you can access via http://reo-solutions.com/gallery/ti-990a13 . If interested please contact me. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From red at bears.org Thu Dec 5 00:51:00 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: SGI GDM-20D11 monitor? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021204210627.11af5a34@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20021204145327.588f2522@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021204145327.588f2522@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021204210627.11af5a34@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212050142470.9017-100000@instinct.bears.org> On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Joe wrote: > *I don't think the lack of sync on pin 3 indicates a problem. This > monitor is suppossed to Sync-on-Green. In fact, the lack of sync on 3 > when I boot the computer with the monitor connected may well indicate > that the computer recognizes that this monitor doesn't use a separate > sync signal. It does not indicate a problem. The Indigo outputs composite sync on green. Later SGI workstations use the 10 non-coaxial pins for monitor type sense---off the top of my head I don't remember whether the Indigo uses them or not. If you are not using an SGI cable, it is possible that some of the data pins are wrapped in an inappropriate way that is confusing the graphics card. If you power up the Indigo with no cable attached it should default to outputting some sane mode (either 1024x768 @ 60Hz or 1280x1024 @ 70 Hz, not sure) that you could then try connecting the monitor after the boot completes, and see what happens. > The computer is definitely working. After trying these monitors I > plugged the video cable into my usual monitor and everything worked > exactly as it's supposed to. The video sense logic lies dormant after the X server (graphical login) starts. From reading your description of the problem, though, I really doubt this is the problem. It sure sounds like there's something pear-shaped with the monitor. > I was wondering, if I use a logic pulser and pulse the green input on > the monitor will it generate random garbage on the screen? Any > thoughts on that? I doubt it will work, as the monitor will not exit power-save until it receives a valid sync signal. ok r. From alanp at snowmoose.com Thu Dec 5 01:28:14 2002 From: alanp at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Solaris 2.4 Message-ID: <20021205072941.B350442D1A@smtp-relay.omnis.com> Bzzzt. Wrong answer. I worked at Sun in the OS group and the first release that had my code in it was Solaris 2.4. I also have bugfixes in 2.3. Solaris 1.x is the BSD-based stuff; Solaris 2.x is the SVR4-based stuff. SunOS is the OS proper and Solaris is the entire environment. SunOS 4.x went with Solaris 1.x and SunOS 5.x went with Solaris 2.x. alan ---Original Message--- From: cctech@classiccmp.org To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 21:51:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Solaris 2.4 At 03:39 PM 12/4/02 -0600, you wrote: > Does anyone have Solaris 2.4 CDs that they could sell or copy for me? Please > note that I am not looking to violate copyright law but I do need to get 2.4 > and not some later or earlier version of Solaris. The way I remember this, the first release that bore the "Solaris" name when released was 2.5 . Before it was called SunOS, of which the last release was 4.1.4 if I remember correctly. After Solaris 2.5, the previous SunOS 4.x releases were renamed "Solaris 2.4". I think that the list of releases that I played with at one point or another is as follows: SunOS 4.1.1 Rev B SunOS 4.1.4, aka Solaris 2.4 (or was it 4.1.3?) Solaris 2.5 Solaris 2.6 Solaris 2.7 Solaris 8 -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From red at bears.org Thu Dec 5 01:32:00 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: SunOS/Solaris naming (was: Re: Solaris 2.4) In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20021204215113.00d7fa24@pop1.epm.net.co> References: <3.0.2.32.20021204215113.00d7fa24@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212050154580.9017-100000@instinct.bears.org> Some of you got pretty close, but most of you were way off. The name "Solaris" is a Sun marketing designation for the product combining some version of SunOS plus OpenWindows. SunOS prior to 5.0 (Solaris 2.x) is a 4BSD derivative (via Sun co-founder Bill Joy). As of 5.0 it became an SVR4 derivative. Note that development continued on the SunOS 4.x line after the introduction of 5.0, since it represented such a huge shift from the 4.x world (and was horrendously bug-ridden until 5.4). After Solaris 2.6, the marketing department got hold of things and dropped the "2.", with the result that the following release is named Solaris 7. The chronology, starting somewhere in the 4.0 days: [...] ------------- SunOS 4.0.3 --------------- 05/89 ------------- SunOS 4.1 --------------- 03/90 Solaris 1.0 SunOS 4.1.1B OpenWindows 2.0 02/91 Solaris 1.0.1 SunOS 4.1.2 OpenWindows 2.0 12/91 Solaris 2.0 SunOS 5.0 OpenWindows 3.0.1 07/92 Solaris 1.1A SunOS 4.1.3 OpenWindows 3.0 08/92 Solaris 2.1 SunOS 5.1 OpenWindows 3.1 12/92 Solaris 2.2 SunOS 5.2 OpenWindows 3.2 05/93 Solaris 2.3 SunOS 5.3 OpenWindows 3.3 11/93 Solaris 1.1.1 SunOS 4.1.3_U1 OpenWindows 3.0_U1 12/93 Solaris 2.4 SunOS 5.4 OpenWindows 3.4 08/94 Solaris 1.1.2 SunOS 4.1.4 OpenWindows 3_414 11/94 Solaris 2.5 SunOS 5.5 OpenWindows 3.5 11/95 Solaris 2.5.1 SunOS 5.5.1 OpenWindows 3.5 05/96 Solaris 2.6 SunOS 5.6 OpenWindows 3.6 08/97 Solaris 7 SunOS 5.7 OpenWindows 3.6.1 10/98 Solaris 8 SunOS 5.8 OpenWindows 3.6.2 There are a few maintenance/hardware releases in the Solaris 1.x days that I left out for clarity. Otherwise it should be complete and accurate. I hope it clears things up. ok r. From drido at optushome.com.au Thu Dec 5 01:47:01 2002 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Replacement Power Supply for old Toshiba Laptop? In-Reply-To: <20021204172546.39069.59108.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20021205184455.010216bc@mail.optushome.com.au> >Hello, I'm new here, and I've got a problem with an >old Laptop. I just purchased a Toshiba T5200 in a flea >market, which can be seen here... > >http://web.ukonline.co.uk/zelandeth/computers/t5200-100/ > >...and I bought it for $1! A total bargain, >but...unsurprisingly, it's broken...kinda broken. I've >opened it up to determine the cause of what's wrong >with it, as it won't turn on. A little tinkering >later, and, boom, the power supply of the Laptop fries >itself up. Damage looks bad, and it stinks really >bad...a poisonous sort of smell, so I've thrown the >offending power supply to the garbage. Now I have a >laptop...with no power supply. But, is it possible to >buy a replacement power supply for this? Or, is it >even possible to just hook it up to a regular PC's >power supply? I'm not familiar with this particular machine, but I used to have a similar 286 based machine. A noname tawianese brand, model HL3200 or some such. Designed to look like the Toshiba 3100, but with EGA and an MFM HDD. The main problem with replacing the power supply with one from a generic PC is that the original supply probably had a high voltage output to drive the plasma display. In my 286 machine it was 205V. If you use a power supply that doesn't have the 205V line you'll be able use an external monitor, but not the plasma display. Which would kind of defeat the purpose of getting it running these days. Your best bet would be find a power supply from another machine. One from a 286 based T3200 might do, as may one another machine with a plasma display if you can work out what goes where. It probably won't fit in space where the original power supply was. Either way I'd retrieve the original power supply from the garbage to work out what goes where. I had mine many years ago. I found it in a dumpster with a cracked screen and no drives. This was when back when a 286 with EGA was something special, at least to a 13 year old with no money. I got it running on an external monitor and dumped the broken plasma display. It lived out the rest its days in a plastic case that once held an apple 2 clone, a naked 5.25" FDD and a 30MB MFM HDD at it's side. I completed Leisure Suit Larry 1, Duke Nukem 1, Catacombs 3D and others on this beast before upgrading to a Wang 386-16 (a full size case with room for 2 70MB MFM HDDs with noisy bearings!) and a flaky VGA monitor with serious screen burn. A good used VGA monitor cost around AU$200 at the time so I has to settle for one removed from an old memorex terminal, but I could finally play Wolf 3D. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Dec 5 02:01:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: My first good find!!! References: <m18JkL8-000IzrC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <002101c29c34$d081dfc0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Tony Duell wrote: >> Now, there is a catch. The machine didn't come with a power >> supply. So, can someone with an Ace, working PSU and a multimeter >> please tell me what the polarity and voltage of the PSU's output is? >> I'm hesitant to power up > I am darn sure it's 9V DC (probably about 1A) and tip +ve. Well, it certainly seems that way - from the incomplete and poor-quality schematics I've got, it uses a 7805 1A linear regulator which needs around 8V to 15V to run properly. The usual supply voltage is 9V. IIRC... > But you can check it for yourself. Open up the Ace (the easiest way > to do this is to push the centre pins of the 5 fixing studs in, so > that they fall out inside the cae. Remove the studs and the case top, > then recover the pins from inside the machine. When reassembing, put > the top on, fit the studs, and push the pins in from the outside). Well, that was easy enough, except my Ace only had three fixing studs. I guess the studs made it a little quicker to assemble an Ace in the factory, but they're a real pain to remove when the case needs opening... > The PSU is a conventional 7805-based design (so the 9V 1A input > should be fine). One side of the input jack socket (I think it's the > sleeve) goes to the 0V line. That would seem logical - ring ground, tip power. Same as when a jack plug is used as an audio connector. >> the Ace in case I end up fouling up the settings, with fairly >> predictable results. > There is nothing totally irreplaceable in the Ace. A ROM dump should > be available if you need to re-burn the EPROMs. And the other chips > are standard -- there's no ULA... In other words, it's a ZX80 workalike that runs FORTH instead of BASIC... > In any case, most of the time when you get the polarity wrong, the > 7805 dies, but the rest of the machine survives. Don't try this for > the fun of it, though ;-) Strange, I've never killed a 7805 by reversing the polarity. Mainly because I usually power them up on current-limited power supplies... I don't suppose you have a copy of the Jupiter Ace schematics, do you? Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Thu Dec 5 02:10:01 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: My first good find!!! Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AFC8@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >I don't suppose you have a copy of the Jupiter Ace schematics, do you? Isn't there a set of schematics on the web? I was given a Jupiter Ace pcb a while back and it came with a set of schematics. What I'm not certain is whether this was a "real" Ace pcb (real in the sense of being a copy of the original) or whether this was the result of a build-a-lookalike-from-scratch project. Whichever the PCB is, the schematics match. Antonio From tim at tim-mann.org Thu Dec 5 02:38:09 2002 From: tim at tim-mann.org (Tim Mann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Need information on TRSDOS 1.3 internals In-Reply-To: <20021205062629.44578.90270.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20021205062629.44578.90270.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20021205004021.341ac2bc.tim@tim-mann.org> > Does anyone have any documentation on the data structures of > TRSDOS 1.3? Specifically, I'd like to know the catalog structure, > as well as the scheme for storing files across multiple sectors. I used to have that in my head, but it's fuzzed a bit over the years. When I was working for the LDOS folks in 1981, I wrote a program to read TRSDOS 1.3 diskettes and copy the files to LDOS diskettes. I don't know of a place where the TRSDOS 1.3 on-disk structures are written down, though you could try Wade Fincher's manual scans at http://www2.asub.arknet.edu/wade/operate.htm and David Keil's at http://discover-net.net/~dmkeil/trspdf.htm. The general idea is similar to other TRS-80 operating systems. The other systems are well documented (especially LDOS; see my web site), but Model III TRSDOS is different in several ways. Here's a summary of what I remember. Tracks are numbered from 0. The disks are single-sided. Sectors are numbered from 1 to 18. There are 256 bytes/sector. Tracks are divided into allocation units called granules; there are 3 sectors/granule (6 granules/track). You should find the directory on track 17 (decimal). All sectors on tracks *other* than 17 are written with a deleted data address mark (this is opposite from other TRS-80 operating systems, by the way). On track 17, sector 1 has a bitmap to show which granules are allocated. There is one byte per track. There might be a second bitmap to show which granules are locked out as defective. Towards the end of the sector is the disk name and date and the AUTO command (executed if you boot the disk). Sector 2 has a hash table that was used to help search the directory without reading all of it. You can ignore it if you're just reading the disk. The remaining sectors are full of 48-byte directory entries, with the last 16 bytes of each sector unused. The fields are similar to what's described in the LDOS documentation (http://www.tim-mann.org/trs80/doc/prgguide.pdf), but there are some differences in pesky details, like a possible off-by-1 error in the count of the number of sectors in the file. The other main difference is that the Model III TRSDOS directory entries are 16 bytes longer, so that you can have more extent pointers in the entry. Hope this helps. -- Tim Mann tim@tim-mann.org http://www.tim-mann.org/ From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Thu Dec 5 04:04:00 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: My first good find!!! Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBA0@lif015.merlincommunications.com> Phil, > I don't suppose you have a copy of the Jupiter Ace > schematics, do you? http://www.home-micros.freeserve.co.uk/JupiterAce/JupiterAce.html Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Dec 5 04:25:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: My first good find!!! In-Reply-To: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBA0@lif015.merlincommunications.com> References: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBA0@lif015.merlincommunications.com> Message-ID: <1039083993.3def29d9d93e8@netmail.pipex.net> Quoting "Davison, Lee" <Lee.Davison@merlincommunications.com>: > > I don't suppose you have a copy of the Jupiter Ace > > schematics, do you? > > http://www.home-micros.freeserve.co.uk/JupiterAce/JupiterAce.html That's great. Unfortunately the CPU (a NEC D780C) died this morning while I was re-tuning the modulator (modulator was set too close to Channel 5). Sooo... Does anyone have a spare D780C or am I going to have to pull apart my Toshiba HX-10 (MSX) and, er... "borrow" the CPU? Alternatively a ZiLOG Z80 would be fine. The original CPU has a 1984 date code, but it's in a socket so I guess it's been replaced already. A replacement from 1982-1986 would be nice (82xx to 86xx date code), but not essential. Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From foxvideo at wincom.net Thu Dec 5 05:18:00 2002 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Santa came early Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021205061420.01f92da0@mail.wincom.net> I just received a collection of 5 1/4" floppies from a retired computer science teacher. It consists of about three hundred C-64 software, and about five hundred PC titles. It also included a copy of Windows 1.04, box, disks and manual. Cheers Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From menadeau at attbi.com Thu Dec 5 06:13:00 2002 From: menadeau at attbi.com (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Need information on TRSDOS 1.3 internals References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212041123350.13438-100000@siconic.com> <4431.4.20.168.170.1039060289.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <009e01c29c57$caacb840$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> I have the Pennington book, Sellam. If you can't find a copy locally, I might be able to scan the pertinent sections. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editor/Publisher Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource www.classictechpub.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Smith" <eric@brouhaha.com> To: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 10:51 PM Subject: Re: Need information on TRSDOS 1.3 internals > Sellam asks: > > Does anyone have any documentation on the data structures of TRSDOS 1.3? > > Specifically, I'd like to know the catalog structure, as well as the > > scheme for storing files across multiple sectors. > > I think you want _TRS-80 Disk and Other Mysteries_. That was one of > the Mysteries books I didn't have, but ISTR that Al turned up a copy > recently. > > Each track had 10 sectors. They were allocated to files in groups of > five, which were called granules or grans. There's a Granule Allocation > Table (GAT) which I think was basically an allocation bitmap. > > In other DOSes for the TRS-80, which had support for higher-capacity > disks, the number of sectors per granule was often different. > > Eric > > > From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Thu Dec 5 06:32:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Solaris 2.4 In-Reply-To: <20021205033329.91309.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3.0.2.32.20021204215113.00d7fa24@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021205072857.00d88218@pop1.epm.net.co> At 07:33 PM 12/4/02 -0800, you wrote: >Right idea, wrong version numbers. > >SunOS 4.1 was the last major version of SunOS. It was BSD-derived and >very comfortable to those of us who grew up on VAXen. While SunOS 4 >was still a current product, Sun came out with Solaris 2.1. It's >underlying operating system number was 5.1. Solaris 2.2 came out >as the "operating environment" that included "SunOS 5.2" and so on. > >After Solaris had been around for a while, Sun retroactively named >SunOS to a Solaris 1 number. Ok, so I got all my numbers messed up. But I did remember that Sun had played a retroactive trick on version numbers. I also remember the Great Recompile/ReBuy that we had to go through when we went from SunOS(BSD) to Solaris (SYSV). And all of the hard drives suddenly became insufficient... carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From nemesis-lists at icequake.net Thu Dec 5 06:41:01 2002 From: nemesis-lists at icequake.net (Ryan Underwood) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Vintage Ultra-Comp price list Message-ID: <20021205124321.545F975326@mail.icequake.net> Hi, well, I've seen some discussions back and forth around here about what things cost "back in the day", with some wildly differing figures at times. In St. Louis, we used to have a distributor named Ultra-Comp, who was in the Earth City area in Maryland Heights (by the I-70/I-270 interchange). So here's an Ultra-Comp price list of 1988 vintage: http://dbz.icequake.net/share/doc/comphist/ultracomp_prices.pdf Enjoy! (BTW, my dad bought the "Ultra Turbo-10 640 system" from them. Upgraded from a Leading Edge 256K 4.77mhz system, 1986 vintage. In 1991, I tasted a 386-40 clone for the first time, and was forever weaned from the 8086. Hehe.) -- Ryan Underwood, <nemesis at icequake.net>, icq=10317253 From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Thu Dec 5 06:55:12 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Psion PDAs (was Re: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?) References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212040907110.13111-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <3DEF4D00.7060700@Vishay.com> Sellam, yes, it is truly a matter of personal preferences: >>you're talking in the past? - I am still using my Psion 3mx every day, > > > For me I am ;) I don't doubt that you still find your Psion 3 useful. If > I didn't have my Series 5 I would still be using my 3a. I forwarded my Series 5 to my brother, who is happy with it, while I happily continue to use the 3mx. > Huh? What is V-Tel? Sounds *very* interesting. The "3a Box" program was I mentioned V-Tel in one of my earlier postings on cctech, and promptly got a request for it off-list. It is a combined VT320 emulator and Telnet utility, so you can use the 3a/c/mx for dialling into a TCP/IP network and establish sessions to all kinds of hosts, with the ability to use screen-oriented applications: editors, monitoring tools, games, ... ;-) Before I started to write V-Tel, I looked for an existing application, but found only a very elementary Telnet program (from Simon Wood; in the comment lines, it said it was there only to prove that it is possible) and a number of VT emulators, but none of them was able to connect through the TCP/IP stack: they all used the serial interface exclusively. Then I dug out an original VT320 (for comparison) and a couple of manuals, downloaded RFC854... > Sadly, I believe the source is now lost for good. The harddrive that had > the backup files for that Psion has long since crashed and the batteries > (main and backup) on my 3a went dead and took the program with it :( A SSD (solid state disk) might have helped. I have two of the 4MB devices in the A and B slots of my 3mx, but currently only need one of them to store data. So, with my internal RAM (2MB) and a total of 10MB, I am excellently equipped: for comparison, a spreadsheet including two different graphical representations and a listing of daily stock rates for three different papers over the course of a year takes about 50kB on the 3mx. This includes the formulas to calculate values for sample accounts (one account per paper) for each day. > * Actually, in the movie Executive Decision with Steven Seagal (the only > one he's in where his character dies) and Kurt Russell, the terrorist on > the plane is using a Psion 3a as the remote bomb control :) I vaguely remembered having seen such a scene. That's where it was? - Thanks for the pointer! (However, I prefer other applications!) >>Too bad that the infrared interface (3c, 3mx) was built too early to >>conform to all relevant IRDC standards, but if I can locate some >>information from the Psion SDK, there might be a solution... > > > Is it compatible with the Series 5 at least? Probably not as I imagine > the Series 5 conforms to standard. The infrared port of my 3mx does not work with my Nokia 6210, so I have to carry around both serial cables and a null modem. Well, actually a "null terminal" adapter (two male connectors) because both cables are designed to connect to a PC (= to a DTE). This adaptor was much easier to build than to find in a shop. Going infrared, the Psion "sees" the cell phone in the proximity, and with a small OPL program (OPL again!), you can prove that it can contact the device and retrieve a description string, but you cannot access the modem in the 6210. This is why I assume an incompatibility on a somewhat higher layer of the IRDC protocol stack. I seem to remember having seen programs for the 3 and 5 to allow the exchange of data between these machines. Apparently, these programs simply implement higher protocol levels themselves. >>As for the RS232 interface, the "soap on rope" cable used with the 3/3a >>was changed into something that looks like a simple cable for the later >>models (3c/3mx), I think it might be the same type as for the Series 5, >>with a small flat connector at the PDA end instead of the 3-by-2 >>Berg-style plug. > > > But I thought the dongle had the actual serial hardware in it, whereas on > the Series 5 it is built-in? Right. Also built-in with 3c and 3mx. The 3 and 3a had a proprietary (IIRC, 1.5Mb/s, full duplex) link between the Psion and the dongle. This is why the same 6-pin connector could also be used for a parallel printer interface. >>absolutely personal opinion, of course. I tried a Series 5, but compared >>to the Series 3, it didn't do enough to justify the switch: not even the >>Opera browser could do what I was looking for, so I gave up and kept the >>3mx. > > > I didn't realize that was Opera! Cool. Opera was not the original Web browser from Psion, but you could download and install an EPOC version of Opera from their Web site. Unfortunately, both browsers refused "https:", so I still have to boot the PC for home banking. No "mobile banking" yet ;-) > One of these days I'm going to get Linux installed on my spare (if I can > fix it) just to do it. Should I ever need another PDA, it may well be Linux-based, especially if it can do ssh instead of Telnet and IPsec with TCP/IP. I keep my fingers crossed for your fixing the device and installing the O/S! -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Dec 5 07:55:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: SGI GDM-20D11 monitor? In-Reply-To: <a05111b02ba145a20d621@[192.168.1.101]> References: <3.0.6.16.20021204145327.588f2522@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021204145327.588f2522@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021205085820.477f2d04@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:22 PM 12/4/02 -0800, you wrote: >> I found two SGI "granite" monitors for $5 in a surplus place this >>morning. Does anyone know if these will work with the SGI Indigo? >>(XS-24 video card.) I tried them but I'm not getting any video and >>I'm not sure if these are both bad or if they're even supposed work >>with the Indigo. I checked the SGI and Indigo FAQs and can't find >>anything about exactly what systems the monitors are compatible with. >> >> Joe > >A quick groups.google.com using gdm-20d11 and indigo produced a >number of ads with the items sold together as a working system. > >Don't forget sync on green for these monitors. > >My guess is that they don't work, as they can be used on a pc with a >cheap adapter and most sellers know they are worth more like $100. The dealer definitely didn't know if these were good or not. I got a bargain on these because I was standing there when they unloaded the truck and spilled the load including the two monitors. One had a couple of big chips knocked out of the case and both were scratched up. He offered me both of them on the spot for $5 and I had to pick them up from where they had fallen. I figured that I couldn't go wrong for that price! Joe > From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Dec 5 08:44:00 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Web Site Question (was: OT: _spam_) In-Reply-To: <182271620008.20021204205128@subatomix.com> References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212040119150.11936-100000@siconic.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212040119150.11936-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021205091600.033ff520@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Jeffrey Sharp may have mentioned these words: >On Wednesday, December 4, 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Saturated colors are so 90s. It's the new millenium, man. Pastel is in! > >I like pastel colors. Well, I do, too -- on M&M Candies during Easter... otherwise... :-P ;-) > When I was into tweaking around with Linux and *BSD on >the desktop, I kept wondering why everyone else had these setups where >everything was dark. I couldn't see anything in those screenshots! I >seriously doubted that real work could be done with those color schemes. I have one word for ya: Photophobia. I'm one of the posterchildren for the light-grey/dark-grey/black color schemes (going so far to hacking the registry in windows to get to some of the colors you can't normally change - way back in Win3.1) because my eyes are so light-sensitive that it's the only way that I can stand to do my job... [[ and it's still too bright for my liking... a *lot* of winders proggies don't like dark backgrounds with light text... :-( <sniff> ]] >Seriously: Am I the only one who can't see @#$% in this screenshot? >http://themes.freshmeat.net/screenshots/21766/ Awesome!!! I love it! ;-) >Due to some medical problems (long story), my color vision is kinda >squirrely. I have lots of trouble with dark colors; they all look black to >me. I can't tell the difference between navy and black slacks in a clothing >store, for instance. I think this is why I like light colors. I have a friend kinda light that - can only see very *bright* primaries - otherwise, the world is grey to him... He always had to go clothes shopping with a friend to 'get advice' about colors & whatnot... That's why he liked the army... he always knew the clothes would match... ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From allain at panix.com Thu Dec 5 09:38:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Vintage Ultra-Comp price list References: <20021205124321.545F975326@mail.icequake.net> Message-ID: <000b01c29c74$8b3a7a40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > well, I've seen some discussions back and forth around > here about what things cost "back in the day", with some > wildly differing figures at times. Thank-You. Too bad Richard E. isn't around to "enjoy" this list too. FWIW the prices are a little high, maybe 10%. I bought an IBM branded system for about the same prices as these at that same period, 1988, but in Silicon Valley, where the prices might have been more cutthroat. John A. From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Thu Dec 5 10:16:00 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: UK electronic scrap prices. Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBA2@lif015.merlincommunications.com> I know we've been through this before but does anyone have a handle on the going rate for scrap PCBs in the UK? The reason - I've been made aware of a quantity of now obsolete microprocessor equipment but I'm bidding against the scrap man. Who knows, he may be charging for the removal but I'd hate to lose this to him. Cheers, Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 5 10:21:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Solaris 2.4 In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20021205072857.00d88218@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <20021205162259.18436.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Carlos Murillo <carlos_murillo@epm.net.co> wrote: > ...But I did remember that Sun > had played a retroactive trick on version numbers. I also remember > the Great Recompile/ReBuy that we had to go through when we > went from SunOS(BSD) to Solaris (SYSV). And all of the hard drives > suddenly became insufficient... Yep. That's pretty much how it was. I heard enough horror stories from guys at Ohio State about Solarises 2.1 through 2.3 that I intentionally sat on the sidelines until I was forced to go with Solaris 2.4. By then, the worst of it had passed. I didn't have any real complaints about it or 2.5.1. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From Qstieee at aol.com Thu Dec 5 10:25:19 2002 From: Qstieee at aol.com (Qstieee@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: OpenVMS VAX hobbysit CD Message-ID: <4f.27cbffa6.2b20d84f@aol.com> To quote from http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/mount.html "OpenVMS Hobbyist CD Media The OpenVMS Hobbyist Kit V2.0 is currently available. You must be a member of a participating DECUS/Encompass Chapter before you can order an OpenVMS Hobbyist Kit. You can order the kits on-line via our web site, or via mail order. At this time, OpenVMS VAX media kits are sold out. If you are still interested in getting OpenVMS for your VAX, you may try borrowing a CD from a friend, co-worker, local Encompass LUG, Ebay, or other places. Please note that any OpenVMS distribution is legal to use with the Hobbyist Program (as long as it's not stolen!)." Does anyone have one or know an FTP site? If one can get real DEC VMS CD's will the hobbyist license PAKs work or do you need the hobbyist CD? From dittman at dittman.net Thu Dec 5 10:58:01 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: OpenVMS VAX hobbysit CD In-Reply-To: <4f.27cbffa6.2b20d84f@aol.com> from "Qstieee@aol.com" at Dec 05, 2002 11:26:55 AM Message-ID: <200212051659.gB5GxqIm025794@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Does anyone have one or know an FTP site? > If one can get real DEC VMS CD's will the hobbyist license PAKs work or do > you need the hobbyist CD? You can use DEC/Compaq/HP CDs with the Hobbyist licenses. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dan at ekoan.com Thu Dec 5 11:02:00 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:21 2005 Subject: Doc help for HP9000 800/G30 In-Reply-To: <014001c29bf1$d0990cb0$a564ec42@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <78BA840C-0873-11D7-A422-000393903ABA@ekoan.com> On Wednesday, December 4, 2002, at 07:03 PM, Keys wrote: > I tried a google and HP website search for documentation on the > 800/G30 > G-Class server and could not find any. Does anyone else know were a > PDF is? > I would like to learn more the server I got yesterday and get it up and > running. Thanks in advance for any help. I've got a pair of G40's in my basement. There are a whole series of hardware manuals and another, larger set covering HP-UX. So there is a lot of reading if you want to really get up to speed. However, the first stumbling block you may run into is getting the proper console cable to see what goes on during the boot process. Contact me off-line if you need more details. Cheers, Dan http://www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From hansp at aconit.org Thu Dec 5 11:28:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: Micro Professor goodies Message-ID: <3DEF8D2C.2020601@aconit.org> Browsing around today I came across the following EPROM & FORTH. Module for the Micro-Professor containing an Eprom and full manual. Specification:- FORTH-79, EPROM (8KB). Including line editor, ramdisk feature has up to 40k user RAM capbility. 4.99 ZILOG Z80 CHIPS. I/O memory expansion module for the Micro-Professor (see Q0831) Spec:- IOM-MPF-IP, Contains Z80-CTC (counter and timer chips) and Z80-PIO (parallel I/O chip) 2k eprom. 2k RAM. Uses parallel I/O control. Supplied with manual and ribbon cable. 9.99 AT Greenweld Electronics in the UK, web http://www.greenweld.co.uk -- hbp From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Dec 5 12:05:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: BIG problem with my Jupiter Ace Message-ID: <005601c29c89$4faebee0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Hi all, I've just opened up my Jupiter Ace and I think the problem I'm having with it is far more severe than a blown CPU. It looks like while I was testing it this morning the PSU was accidentally powered up, the +12(unreg) connection made contact with the barrel of the power jack (-ve) and the PSU's -ve line made contact with one of the first five expansion bus pins on the topside of the board. The CPU was getting very hot - I've since swapped the original NEC D780C (1982 datecode) with a Sharp LH0080 Z80-A-CPU IC. The replacement is also getting hot (takes about a minute for either of them to hit 50deg C). Output from the 7805 is 5.04V steady according to my Fluke 25 DMM. Video is being output and my TV can lock onto it, but the output is total garbage, no difference if I remove the CPU and ROMs or have them installed. The garbage is always the same, too, in case it matters. The replacement CPU is known-good - it came out of a working Toshiba HX-10 MSX. How should I proceed with this repair? I've got a Fluke 25 DMM and a Tek 466 storage scope at my disposal. Also, the schematics are almost unreadable. I got them from home-micros.freeserve.co.uk. Anyone got a better copy? Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 5 12:28:01 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: UK electronic scrap prices. In-Reply-To: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBA2@lif015.merlincommun ications.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021205102753.026bb8d0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 04:16 PM 12/5/02 +0000, you wrote: >I know we've been through this before but does anyone >have a handle on the going rate for scrap PCBs in the >UK? Depends on the boards and whats on them. The old 486 I think type chips are worth something like $35/lb (just chips, not boards), so boards get complicated with socketed vs soldered, and gold vs plain chips. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Dec 5 13:03:01 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: My first good find!!! In-Reply-To: Philip Pemberton <philpem@dsl.pipex.com> "RE: My first good find!!!" (Dec 5, 10:26) References: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBA0@lif015.merlincommunications.com> <1039083993.3def29d9d93e8@netmail.pipex.net> Message-ID: <10212051905.ZM3769@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 5, 10:26, Philip Pemberton wrote: > That's great. Unfortunately the CPU (a NEC D780C) died this morning while I > was re-tuning the modulator (modulator was set too close to Channel 5). > Sooo... Does anyone have a spare D780C or am I going to have to pull apart my > Toshiba HX-10 (MSX) and, er... "borrow" the CPU? > Alternatively a ZiLOG Z80 would be fine. The original CPU has a 1984 date > code, but it's in a socket so I guess it's been replaced already. A > replacement from 1982-1986 would be nice (82xx to 86xx date code), but not > essential. I have a spare D780C with a 1983 date code. Mail me off-list if you want it. I think the original may have been socketed. It was common to socket thingss like MPUs, ROMs, etc, in those days, but the 1984 date code sounds late -- I think the Ace came out in 1982. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 5 13:13:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: PDP11 chips on ebay In-Reply-To: <LOBBLGPOLKHLIKMNDENPAEBPCPAA.trestivo@concentric.net> References: <LOBBLGPOLKHLIKMNDENPAEBPCPAA.trestivo@concentric.net> Message-ID: <1302.4.20.168.170.1039115735.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > to all, anyone interested in a set of three chips for the pdp11 visit > this link... > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2078019983 > > The chips are the 11/23 CPU ( 57-00000-01A1 ), the KEF11AA floating > point ( 57-00001-01A1 ) and the Memory Management Unit ( 21-15542-01 ). > These chips are assumed good and are guaranteed not DOA. Replacements > available for any chip proven to be non-functional. $55???!!! Obviously the seller must be targeting the chip collectors, since an entire actually working (not just assumed) 11/23 CPU board with those chips typically sells for under $25. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Dec 5 13:44:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: My first good find!!! References: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBA0@lif015.merlincommunications.com> <1039083993.3def29d9d93e8@netmail.pipex.net> <10212051905.ZM3769@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <007901c29c97$051d5b80$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Peter Turnbull wrote: > I have a spare D780C with a 1983 date code. Mail me off-list if you > want it. That would be great - how much would postage be? I don't suppose you've got any spare 2114 RAMs as well, have you? I think the RAMs in my Ace may have died when I slipped with the PSU cable (oops). > I think the original may have been socketed. It was common to socket > thingss like MPUs, ROMs, etc, in those days, but the 1984 date code > sounds late -- I think the Ace came out in 1982. I was speaking from memory there - I've just had another look at the CPU and it's got a 1982 date code, the Ace PCB is dated 1983 (if that's a date and not a serial number). Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Dec 5 14:43:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: My first good find!!! References: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBA0@lif015.merlincommunications.com> <1039083993.3def29d9d93e8@netmail.pipex.net> <10212051905.ZM3769@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <007901c29c97$051d5b80$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <00a101c29c9f$64c59a40$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Dammit. I hate it when that happens. That b*dy message was supposed to go OFF-LIST. /me fires up Xbill on linux box Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Dec 5 14:47:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: My first good find!!! In-Reply-To: "Philip Pemberton" <philpem@dsl.pipex.com> "Re: My first good find!!!" (Dec 5, 19:46) References: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBA0@lif015.merlincommunications.com> <1039083993.3def29d9d93e8@netmail.pipex.net> <10212051905.ZM3769@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <007901c29c97$051d5b80$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <10212052048.ZM3820@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Hi, Phil. On Dec 5, 19:46, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Peter Turnbull wrote: > > I have a spare D780C with a 1983 date code. Mail me off-list if you > > want it. > That would be great - how much would postage be? Not much, it would go in a jiffy bag with sime AS foam. > I don't suppose you've got any spare 2114 RAMs as well, have you? I think > the RAMs in my Ace may have died when I slipped with the PSU cable (oops). I have a spare pair, maybe more. How many do you need? But if you've killed it with low-voltage-that's-more-than-five volts, chances are you've fried some TTL. The NMOS will survive moderate overvoltage better than the TTL will, so you might have a bit of work on your hands. This might cost you a trip to the O2 shop ;-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From bernd at kopriva.de Thu Dec 5 14:56:01 2002 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: YARC Systems transputer board Message-ID: <18K34Y-1Dus9AC@fmrl01.sul.t-online.com> Today i've added a YARC Systems transputer board to my little IBM-AT coprocessor card collection :-) Unfortunately, there was no documentation and software included ... ... and YARC Systems seems to be out of business for at least 2 years ... Does anyone have documentation/software for that little beauty ? Thanks Bernd From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Thu Dec 5 15:01:00 2002 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: TI - Modulators In-Reply-To: <00a101c29c9f$64c59a40$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> References: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBA0@lif015.merlincommunications.com> <1039083993.3def29d9d93e8@netmail.pipex.net> <10212051905.ZM3769@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <007901c29c97$051d5b80$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20021205160142.00bbc508@pop-server> I still need five TI Modulators. I need one right away and then at least four more. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Thu Dec 5 15:04:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: UK electronic scrap prices. Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AFCB@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >The reason - I've been made aware of a quantity of now >obsolete microprocessor equipment but I'm bidding against >the scrap man. Who knows, he may be charging for the >removal but I'd hate to lose this to him. How about ringing a couple up for "very rough quotes", explaining that you have N wotsits, each weighing M kg and see if you can get a ball-park range out of them. Alternatively, bid what it's worth to you - and if you lose, ask afterwards what the winning bid was. What sort of equipment is this? Old PCs or test gear? Antonio From menadeau at attbi.com Thu Dec 5 15:18:01 2002 From: menadeau at attbi.com (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: YARC Systems transputer board References: <18K34Y-1Dus9AC@fmrl01.sul.t-online.com> Message-ID: <0eda01c29ca3$dfadb220$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> You might try YARC's former CEO, Trevor Marshall. His web site is http://www.trevormarshall.com/. Trevor is an engineer and was involved with designing YARC products. He's also a great guy and will probably help you out if he can. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editor/Publisher Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource www.classictechpub.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bernd Kopriva" <bernd@kopriva.de> To: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 4:03 PM Subject: YARC Systems transputer board > Today i've added a YARC Systems transputer board to my little IBM-AT coprocessor card collection :-) > Unfortunately, there was no documentation and software included ... > ... and YARC Systems seems to be out of business for at least 2 years ... > > Does anyone have documentation/software for that little beauty ? > > Thanks Bernd > > > From bernd at kopriva.de Thu Dec 5 15:32:00 2002 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: YARC Systems transputer board In-Reply-To: <0eda01c29ca3$dfadb220$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> Message-ID: <18K3dH-0SRSdsC@fmrl01.sul.t-online.com> Hi Mike, thanks for that information ... ... i didn't know, that he was involved with YARC ... ... i tried to get in contact with him, requesting information for my Definicon board, but i never got a response from him, but i will try again ... Bernd On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:18:35 -0500, Michael Nadeau wrote: >You might try YARC's former CEO, Trevor Marshall. His web site is >http://www.trevormarshall.com/. Trevor is an engineer and was involved with >designing YARC products. He's also a great guy and will probably help you >out if he can. > >--Mike > > > >Michael Nadeau >Editor/Publisher >Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource >www.classictechpub.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bernd Kopriva" <bernd@kopriva.de> >To: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> >Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 4:03 PM >Subject: YARC Systems transputer board > > >> Today i've added a YARC Systems transputer board to my little IBM-AT >coprocessor card collection :-) >> Unfortunately, there was no documentation and software included ... >> ... and YARC Systems seems to be out of business for at least 2 years ... >> >> Does anyone have documentation/software for that little beauty ? >> >> Thanks Bernd >> >> >> From coredump at gifford.co.uk Thu Dec 5 16:28:00 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: My first good find!!! References: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBA0@lif015.merlincommunications.com> <1039083993.3def29d9d93e8@netmail.pipex.net> <10212051905.ZM3769@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <007901c29c97$051d5b80$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3DEFD227.70501@gifford.co.uk> Philip Pemberton wrote: > I don't suppose you've got any spare 2114 RAMs as well, have you? I think > the RAMs in my Ace may have died when I slipped with the PSU cable (oops). I have some 2114s if you have trouble finding a source. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Dec 5 16:32:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: Wicat computer? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021205173812.44c77524@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I saw the recent discussions about these on this list but didn't read them since I'd never seen a Wicat computer and didn't know what one was. Well, today that changed. Can someone give me the run down on a wicat S-150A? Joe From coredump at gifford.co.uk Thu Dec 5 16:37:00 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: RL02 Disk Cartridge Problems References: <m18Jjfa-000IzlC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <3DEFD370.2060901@gifford.co.uk> Tony Duell wrote: > If they move almost all the way to the spindle, then it sounds like the > pack has been bulk-erased and the drive can't find any servo information :-( I can confirm that this is what happened on a drive with a dead read amplifier. No read signals, so no servo bursts, and the head went all the way in -- at a slightly alarming speed, when I had my fingers close to it :) We fitted a new op-amp chip in the read amplifier, and it all worked again. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Dec 5 16:42:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: BIG problem with my Jupiter Ace Message-ID: <200212052219.OAA26034@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Philip Pemberton" <philpem@dsl.pipex.com> > >Hi all, > I've just opened up my Jupiter Ace and I think the problem I'm having >with it is far more severe than a blown CPU. It looks like while I was >testing it this morning the PSU was accidentally powered up, the +12(unreg) >connection made contact with the barrel of the power jack (-ve) and the >PSU's -ve line made contact with one of the first five expansion bus pins on >the topside of the board. > The CPU was getting very hot - I've since swapped the original NEC D780C >(1982 datecode) with a Sharp LH0080 Z80-A-CPU IC. The replacement is also >getting hot (takes about a minute for either of them to hit 50deg C). Output >from the 7805 is 5.04V steady according to my Fluke 25 DMM. Video is being Hi 5.04 is an OK value. I wouldn't stick another Z80/780 in there until I knew that there wasn't something else connecting a bad voltage to the processor. You should first power up without the processor plugged in and measure the voltages on all of the pins. Once you've confirmed that there is no +12V or something where it shouldn't be, you can then look for drive contention issues. With the processor removed, find all of the CPU pins that control Writing and reading( I don't have a Z80 pinout handy ). Use pullups to put these into their off states ( no bus activity ). Now check the voltages on the data and address lines. Most TTL cause soft pullups to about 3.5V and any resistor pullup would bring the lines to +5V. These pullups are usually on the order of 5K or larger so you should be able to pull the line down, noticably with a 1K pull down. This will find most any of the issues with some other part that is hard driving against the bus lines. Once you are sure that there is nothing hard driving against the CPU, you could then plug it back in and look for other issues. Just plugging parts in at random would likely be a waste of time and may even do additional damage. Dwight >output and my TV can lock onto it, but the output is total garbage, no >difference if I remove the CPU and ROMs or have them installed. The garbage >is always the same, too, in case it matters. The replacement CPU is >known-good - it came out of a working Toshiba HX-10 MSX. > How should I proceed with this repair? I've got a Fluke 25 DMM and a Tek >466 storage scope at my disposal. Also, the schematics are almost >unreadable. I got them from home-micros.freeserve.co.uk. Anyone got a better >copy? > >Thanks. >-- >Phil. >philpem@dsl.pipex.com >http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ > > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Dec 5 16:47:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: My first good find!!! Message-ID: <200212052247.OAA26054@clulw009.amd.com> >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >Philip Pemberton wrote: >> I don't suppose you've got any spare 2114 RAMs as well, have you? I think >> the RAMs in my Ace may have died when I slipped with the PSU cable (oops). > >I have some 2114s if you have trouble finding a source. > >-- >John Honniball >coredump@gifford.co.uk > > Hi Before he starts ramdomly replacing parts, maybe it would be a good idea to trouble shoot it first. Just a suggestion Dwight From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Dec 5 16:57:01 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: BIG problem with my Jupiter Ace In-Reply-To: "Philip Pemberton" <philpem@dsl.pipex.com> "BIG problem with my Jupiter Ace" (Dec 5, 18:08) References: <005601c29c89$4faebee0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <10212052257.ZM3927@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 5, 18:08, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Hi all, > I've just opened up my Jupiter Ace and I think the problem I'm having > with it is far more severe than a blown CPU. It looks like while I was > testing it this morning the PSU was accidentally powered up, the +12(unreg) > connection made contact with the barrel of the power jack (-ve) and the > PSU's -ve line made contact with one of the first five expansion bus pins on > the topside of the board. > The CPU was getting very hot - I've since swapped the original NEC D780C > (1982 datecode) with a Sharp LH0080 Z80-A-CPU IC. The replacement is also > getting hot (takes about a minute for either of them to hit 50deg C). Output > from the 7805 is 5.04V steady according to my Fluke 25 DMM. Video is being > output and my TV can lock onto it, but the output is total garbage, no > difference if I remove the CPU and ROMs or have them installed. The garbage > is always the same, too, in case it matters. The replacement CPU is > known-good - it came out of a working Toshiba HX-10 MSX. > How should I proceed with this repair? I've got a Fluke 25 DMM and a Tek > 466 storage scope at my disposal. It would be worth looking to see if signals look consistent (ie outputs of gates behave in the way you'd expect from what you see happening on the inputs). If you're thinking of replacing every chip at once, or one-by-one, I'd advise against it. You won't be able to tell what's really wrong, and random swapping might just destroy an otherwise perfectly good IC. The 74LS166 is a serial-out shift register, and I expect that's what generates the video stream. Since you say you always get a good consistent picture, with characters (even if they're junk) or some cosistent pattern, the shifter and video timing is working. That's probably where most of your 393's are, too (they're dual 4-bit counters). Am I right in thinking the character set is soft-loaded from the ROM? ie, not in a character generator ROM? Then you wouldn't expect to get recognisable characters unless the CPU can run, and the ROM is OK. Try swapping the memory chips around. If that gives different (but self-consistent) video, at least some of it is working. If it makes no difference, either it's *all* fried or the buffers have gone west. Other obvious things to check are the CPU clock and /M1 lines. The Z80 clock needs to be pulled high, your scope should be able to show if the clock is a nice square wave that goes up to almost 5V (minimum acceptable is about 4.5V, IIRC). The /M1 line goes low once for each instruction fetch; it should be pulsing. The data and address lines should be pulsing. If the CPU is free-running becasue it can't read instructons, it might be executing NOPs or RSTs or just some random instruction, depending on whether the data bus is stuck all-high, all-low, or at some random value. One possible cause of CPU and SRAM getting hot is if the data bus which they're trying to drive is stuck with an active signal. See if you can isolate the bus, and if the CPU or video behaves differently. I'm just giving general advice here, as I've not used an Ace in decades, and have no idea what the circuit looks like :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Dec 5 17:05:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: UK electronic scrap prices. In-Reply-To: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBA2@lif015.merlincommun ications.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021205180314.44174662@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:16 PM 12/5/02 -0000, Lee wrote: > >I know we've been through this before but does anyone >have a handle on the going rate for scrap PCBs in the >UK? > >The reason - I've been made aware of a quantity of now >obsolete microprocessor equipment but I'm bidding against >the scrap man. Who knows, he may be charging for the >removal but I'd hate to lose this to him. > Prices vary widely depending on how much gold is on the cards but prices seem to run from just about nothing to as much as $4/lb here in the US. Even at the high end, that's about $4 per average sized board which is pretty cheap for a usefull board IMO. Joe From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Dec 5 17:13:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: BIG problem with my Jupiter Ace References: <005601c29c89$4faebee0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <10212052257.ZM3927@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <083401c29cb4$383774c0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Right - thanks for the suggestions Peter (and Dwight). I've printed off your suggestions and I'll have a look through them tomorrow. The RAMs are soldered in, though, so it'll be very difficult to swap them. Plus the holes and pads on the board are *extremely* tiny. Guess I was jumping to conclusions a bit... Just out of interest, has anyone got a spare pair of 2732s and an EPROM burner capable of burning them? Just in case it turns out the ROMs (TI branded - getting quite warm, same as the CPU) are frazzled, too. Earliest I'll be able to get my sticky mitts on an EPROM programmer and some 2732s will be around the 25th (think about it)... *sigh* Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From allain at panix.com Thu Dec 5 17:18:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: Wicat computer? References: <3.0.6.16.20021205173812.44c77524@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <006901c29cb4$4adc67c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Is your system running? I might be able to help you set it up if it's like mine (S-220, IIRC). I am set up to do reel tapes, or, this system can be had free for pickup. I have manuals and boards here to look at, not a lot more, like sales literature, for example. I probably could find a page buried in a CGW somewhere. I believe the company was from Orem Utah, and I hear that James Willing has some knowledge too... John A. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 5 18:17:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: Need information on TRSDOS 1.3 internals In-Reply-To: <4431.4.20.168.170.1039060289.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Dec 4, 2 07:51:29 pm Message-ID: <m18K5fC-000IzSC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 582 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021205/37531f4f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 5 18:21:36 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: My first good find!!! In-Reply-To: <002101c29c34$d081dfc0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> from "Philip Pemberton" at Dec 5, 2 08:03:35 am Message-ID: <m18K5j7-000IzUC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1801 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021205/b0dee618/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 5 18:25:47 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: My first good find!!! In-Reply-To: <1039083993.3def29d9d93e8@netmail.pipex.net> from "Philip Pemberton" at Dec 5, 2 10:26:33 am Message-ID: <m18K5uI-000IzlC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 214 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021205/af61e6b8/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Dec 5 18:30:01 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: BIG problem with my Jupiter Ace In-Reply-To: "Philip Pemberton" <philpem@dsl.pipex.com> "Re: BIG problem with my Jupiter Ace" (Dec 5, 23:15) References: <005601c29c89$4faebee0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <10212052257.ZM3927@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <083401c29cb4$383774c0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <10212060031.ZM4050@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 5, 23:15, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Right - thanks for the suggestions Peter (and Dwight). I've printed off your > suggestions and I'll have a look through them tomorrow. Dwight's suggestion about checking power etc is the obvious first thing -- I should have mentioned that. > Just out of interest, has anyone > got a spare pair of 2732s and an EPROM burner capable of burning them? Yes, to both. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 5 18:34:17 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: BIG problem with my Jupiter Ace In-Reply-To: <005601c29c89$4faebee0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> from "Philip Pemberton" at Dec 5, 2 06:08:27 pm Message-ID: <m18K65V-000IzoC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2031 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021205/2877feb1/attachment.ksh From kfergaso at swbell.net Thu Dec 5 18:46:00 2002 From: kfergaso at swbell.net (Kelly Fergason) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: Solaris 2.4 References: <20021205162259.18436.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <010201c29cc0$c71e97c0$14434441@chess> Despite all the horror stories, even 2.1 wasn't that bad. I ran a production Solaris 2.1 server at Amoco back in 92. Sparc 10 boot and application server. Ran fine for 3 years before natural business politics upgraded it. Kelly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" <erd_6502@yahoo.com> To: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 10:22 AM Subject: Re: Solaris 2.4 > > I heard enough horror stories from guys at Ohio State about Solarises > 2.1 through 2.3 that I intentionally sat on the sidelines until I was > forced to go with Solaris 2.4. By then, the worst of it had passed. > I didn't have any real complaints about it or 2.5.1. > > -ethan > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Dec 5 18:51:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: BIG problem with my Jupiter Ace Message-ID: <200212060052.QAA26170@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Philip Pemberton" <philpem@dsl.pipex.com> > >Right - thanks for the suggestions Peter (and Dwight). I've printed off your >suggestions and I'll have a look through them tomorrow. The RAMs are >soldered in, though, so it'll be very difficult to swap them. Plus the holes >and pads on the board are *extremely* tiny. >Guess I was jumping to conclusions a bit... Just out of interest, has anyone >got a spare pair of 2732s and an EPROM burner capable of burning them? Just >in case it turns out the ROMs (TI branded - getting quite warm, same as the >CPU) are frazzled, too. Earliest I'll be able to get my sticky mitts on an >EPROM programmer and some 2732s will be around the 25th (think about it)... >*sigh* > >Thanks. >-- >Phil. >philpem@dsl.pipex.com >http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ > Hi Phil You didn't mention where you were? You might be right next door to someone that can help. Dwight > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Dec 5 20:21:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: Wicat computer? In-Reply-To: <006901c29cb4$4adc67c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <3.0.6.16.20021205173812.44c77524@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021205212720.478ffdbe@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> John, At 06:16 PM 12/5/02 -0500, you wrote: >Is your system running? I don't know. I just bought it today and haven't even brought it home yet. I didn't get the keyboard. I need to go back and try to find it. I might be able to help you set it >up if it's like mine (S-220, IIRC). I am set up to do reel tapes, >or, this system can be had free for pickup. > >I have manuals and boards here to look at, not a lot more, >like sales literature, for example. >I probably could find a page buried in a CGW somewhere. >I believe the company was from Orem Utah, FWIW This one said that it was made somewhere in Utah but I don't think it was Orem. Joe and I hear that >James Willing has some knowledge too... > >John A. > > > From curt at atari-history.com Thu Dec 5 21:35:01 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: OpenVMS VAX hobbysit CD References: <4f.27cbffa6.2b20d84f@aol.com> Message-ID: <001201c29cd8$85c42b10$0b01010a@cvendel> I've got a set of the CD's (19 in total), but I need a license, I've emailed several local DECUS groups to join, none respond, anybody have a hobby license they wish to share? Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: <Qstieee@aol.com> To: <cctech@classiccmp.org> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 11:26 AM Subject: OpenVMS VAX hobbysit CD > To quote from http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/mount.html > "OpenVMS Hobbyist CD Media > The OpenVMS Hobbyist Kit V2.0 is currently available. You must be a member of > a participating DECUS/Encompass Chapter before you can order an OpenVMS > Hobbyist Kit. You can order the kits on-line via our web site, or via mail > order. At this time, OpenVMS VAX media kits are sold out. If you are still > interested in getting OpenVMS for your VAX, you may try borrowing a CD from a > friend, co-worker, local Encompass LUG, Ebay, or other places. Please note > that any OpenVMS distribution is legal to use with the Hobbyist Program (as > long as it's not stolen!)." > > Does anyone have one or know an FTP site? > If one can get real DEC VMS CD's will the hobbyist license PAKs work or do > you need the hobbyist CD? From vaxzilla at jarai.org Thu Dec 5 23:01:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: OpenVMS VAX hobbysit CD In-Reply-To: <001201c29cd8$85c42b10$0b01010a@cvendel> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212052053110.28141-100000@haiku.jarai.net> On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Curt Vendel wrote: > I've got a set of the CD's (19 in total), but I need a license, I've > emailed several local DECUS groups to join, none respond, anybody have > a hobby license they wish to share? It's a two step process. If you're in the US, first you have to get your Encompass membership <http://www.encompassus.org/>. There's a free membership option available; well, it's free except for the bit of your soul you give to HP's marketing folks. After some number of days they mail a membership id. Then you wander over to the OpenVMS hobbyist site <http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/> with your id to redeem it for valuable prizes! Or at least a set of hobbyist license codes. Technically, or I guess legally, you're not supposed to share your license with anyone. -brian. From foo at siconic.com Thu Dec 5 23:06:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: Need information on TRSDOS 1.3 internals In-Reply-To: <009e01c29c57$caacb840$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212051307001.17362-100000@siconic.com> On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Michael Nadeau wrote: > I have the Pennington book, Sellam. If you can't find a copy locally, I > might be able to scan the pertinent sections. ABE turned up nothing so yes, I could use a scan. Unless Fred can find and loan me his copy. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Dec 5 23:11:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: Psion PDAs (was Re: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?) In-Reply-To: <3DEF4D00.7060700@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212051308560.17362-100000@siconic.com> On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > I am excellently equipped: for comparison, a spreadsheet including two > different graphical representations and a listing of daily stock rates > for three different papers over the course of a year takes about 50kB on > the 3mx. This includes the formulas to calculate values for sample > accounts (one account per paper) for each day. That's the wonderful thing about Psion software. It is so devoid of bloat, which is a welcome diversion from the daily travails of dealing with a Microscoff dominated world. > > * Actually, in the movie Executive Decision with Steven Seagal (the only > > one he's in where his character dies) and Kurt Russell, the terrorist on > > the plane is using a Psion 3a as the remote bomb control :) > > I vaguely remembered having seen such a scene. That's where it was? - > Thanks for the pointer! (However, I prefer other applications!) They show a close-up of the Psion serveral times. There's a graphical application on the screen that shows which of the actuator pins of the bomb detonator are activated. Whoever tracks this stuff can add that to the list of classic machine movie appearances. > Opera was not the original Web browser from Psion, but you could > download and install an EPOC version of Opera from their Web site. > Unfortunately, both browsers refused "https:", so I still have to boot > the PC for home banking. No "mobile banking" yet ;-) Yes, that was one disadvantage that I experienced, though I can't remember what website it was that I couldn't connect to because of that. > Should I ever need another PDA, it may well be Linux-based, especially > if it can do ssh instead of Telnet and IPsec with TCP/IP. I keep my > fingers crossed for your fixing the device and installing the O/S! I definitely need SSH if/when cheap wide-area wireless access (i.e. Ricochet [RIP]) returns to the Silicon Valley. I no longer have telnet ports open on my server due to little punks who go around vandalizing servers because they are stupid and lame. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From zaft at azstarnet.com Fri Dec 6 00:10:01 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon C. Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: OpenVMS VAX hobbysit CD In-Reply-To: <4f.27cbffa6.2b20d84f@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021205230945.03d85580@pop.azstarnet.com> At 11:26 AM 12/5/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone have one or know an FTP site? >If one can get real DEC VMS CD's will the hobbyist license PAKs work or do >you need the hobbyist CD? Yes, any CDs should work so long as you have the appropriate PAK. The hobbyist PAKs are ordinary PAKs except that they are time-limited to one year, and they are unlimited use. G Gordon Zaft zaft@azstarnet.com www.GordonZaft.com From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Dec 6 00:26:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: KIMplement for the C64 Message-ID: <200212060637.WAA28692@stockholm.ptloma.edu> I've threatened to do it and so I did. This is The Incredible KIMplement, a partial emulation of the KIM-1, entirely in software, for the stock Commodore 64. http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/kim-1/ This isn't a joke. It has a full software 6502 core, which works by distilling opcodes down into "safe" equivalents and running those natively to reduce the work it has to do. All memory access is trapped and abstracted. The 6502-on-6502 core is machine-independent and hopefully I can use it to do tricks like virtual memory, protected memory and interruptable/restartable instructions. The emulator includes LED emulation, 6502 emulation (NMOS documented instructions only), SST emulation, keypad emulation, and even supports an emulated TTY. No interval timers yet, but I'm working on it (the ROMs have been trapped so they don't need them). Revision E ROMs are built-in. Hope no one still asserts the rights ... Thanks to Jim Butterfield and Peter Jennings, I've also included Lunar Lander, Addition, Key Train, Sort (all from First Book of KIM) and the original Microchess as a separate download. Beware of Microchess; on the emulator running on a stock C64 in Normal mode, it will take about 30 minutes to compute a move! :-) In the future, I want to use that software core to make a proper OS for the C64 (or Commodore One). The 6502 has gone too long without a proper MMU. Let me know what you guys think, -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Remember, kids: for great justice take off every zig! ---------------------- From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Dec 6 01:08:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: My first good find!!! References: <m18K5uI-000IzlC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <001f01c29cf6$95d75400$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Tony Duell wrote: >> That's great. Unfortunately the CPU (a NEC D780C) died this morning >> while I > For testing just pop in any Z80, Z80A CPU, etc You can worry about the > date code once you've got the machine working again. I've been testing it with a Sharp LH0080A which *seems* to work. I know the original CPU is fried because when I fit it into the CPU socket and try to power up the Ace, my power supply promptly goes into current limit. If I use the LH0080, the current consumption is around 700mA. As for your comment about 2114s being very unreliable, that's why I suspected them in the first place. That and the fact they're getting quite warm, bordering on hot after about five minutes powered up. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Dec 6 01:12:18 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: BIG problem with my Jupiter Ace References: <200212060052.QAA26170@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <002501c29cf6$afc4e6c0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > You didn't mention where you were? You might be right > next door to someone that can help. I'm in Leeds, West Yorkshire, England (UK). Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From Innfogra at aol.com Fri Dec 6 01:23:01 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: UK electronic scrap prices. Message-ID: <36.330ec4fd.2b21aac9@aol.com> I don't know UK prices but they should be similar to the US. Scrap prices are similar world over in the developed countries. In the US, if it is bulky, without many circuit cards the value ranges from 5 cents per pound (motor breakage, must have copper content) (like power supplies) to 16 cents per pound (Aluminum breakage - mixed Aluminum and other metals) (like hard drives or computer gear with aluminum cabinets) it is sold & bid price is calculated by weight. Aluminum and heavy copper can raise values, especially if they are easy to remove. Heavy circuit cards (with relays or metal bracing) are 10 cents to 40 cents per pound. Poor circuit cards (Like recent PC stuff) 0 to 20 cents. Medium circuit cards (DEC, DG & stuff from the 80s) $1.00 per pound Good cards like (Intel multibus I - 70s, early 80s - lots of black chips, gold chips, old silicon chips.) $1.50 - $2.00 per pound Gold plated cards (like HP) $3.50 per pound & up (depends on age) Cards have to be complete with edge connectors and all chips. Gold chips alone are $8.00 to $20 per pound and sometimes more, especially for old military. Old gold pin backplanes are worth $20 to $50 and up Good (25 pins in a 25 shell) clipped connectors $2.50 per pound. This is what the scrap dealer is going to look as bidding figures. There are deductions for problems related to the bulk of the lot (do you have to rent a truck?) Call a scrap dealer that is not going to bid on the lot and ask the prices for Motor Breakage, Aluminum Breakage, Medium circuit cards and heavy circuit cards. Also the price of Aluminum scrap, cleaned (this means all iron, including screws, removed) Much of the value in electronic scrap is in the a luminum and how easy it is to get out. Someone else will have to convert to British Pounds. Good luck and what is the stuff? Paxton Astoria, OR Ps You can contact me directly if you want help trying to figure out the scrap value of the lot. I am not going to bid on it. Do you have pictures? From jss at subatomix.com Fri Dec 6 02:41:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: Fortran for Humans Book? Message-ID: <98379125293.20021206024313@subatomix.com> Did anyone here learn Fortran from, or just read, any book called "Fortran for Humans" or "Fortran 77 for Humans"? I just found out: The CS prof I've been spending so much time with for the last two years, Rex Page, was the principal author of this book. If anyone has memories of it (good or bad :-), I bet he would get a kick out of hearing about it at our next meeting. -- Jeffrey Sharp From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Fri Dec 6 02:58:00 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: BIG problem with my Jupiter Ace Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBA3@lif015.merlincommunications.com> Phil, > Also, the schematics are almost unreadable. > I got them from home-micros.freeserve.co.uk. > Anyone got a better copy? There is just no pleasing some people. 8^)= http://zx.dyndns.org/trastero/cosas/droy/jupiter/ You want the .pdf near the end. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Fri Dec 6 03:01:01 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: UK electronic scrap prices. Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBA4@lif015.merlincommunications.com> > Depends on the boards and whats on them. These are eurocard sized boards with no gold plating. I doubt there is any gold on any connectors either. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From tim at tim-mann.org Fri Dec 6 03:37:08 2002 From: tim at tim-mann.org (Tim Mann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: Need information on TRSDOS 1.3 internals In-Reply-To: <20021205180000.49913.53099.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20021205180000.49913.53099.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20021206013843.38aec94d.tim@tim-mann.org> Eric Smith wrote: > I think you want _TRS-80 Disk and Other Mysteries_. That was one of > the Mysteries books I didn't have, but ISTR that Al turned up a copy > recently. No, that only covers Model I TRSDOS 2.x and NEWDOS 2.1. Sellam asked about TRSDOS 1.3, which I have to assume means Model III TRSDOS. > Each track had 10 sectors. They were allocated to files in groups of > five, which were called granules or grans. There's a Granule > Allocation Table (GAT) which I think was basically an allocation > bitmap. Model I TRSDOS (and single density disks on all TRSDOS-like DOSes that support single density) uses this format. -- Tim Mann tim@tim-mann.org http://www.tim-mann.org/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Dec 6 03:54:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: BIG problem with my Jupiter Ace In-Reply-To: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBA3@lif015.merlincommunications.com> References: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBA3@lif015.merlincommunications.com> Message-ID: <1039168592.3df074504e9f1@netmail.pipex.net> Quoting "Davison, Lee" <Lee.Davison@merlincommunications.com>: > There is just no pleasing some people. 8^)= LOL! > http://zx.dyndns.org/trastero/cosas/droy/jupiter/ > You want the .pdf near the end. Hmm... "Drawn by Bodo Wenzel"... One quick Google search later and I've found the original PDFs at http://apollo.spaceports.com/~bodo4all/zx/jupiter.htm. Now to find an A3 printer :-) -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Dec 6 05:49:00 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: KIMplement for the C64 In-Reply-To: <200212060637.WAA28692@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3DF09DBC.614.766E0489@localhost> > http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/kim-1/ > This isn't a joke. > It has a full software 6502 core, which works by distilling opcodes down > into "safe" equivalents and running those natively to reduce the work it > has to do. All memory access is trapped and abstracted. The 6502-on-6502 core > is machine-independent and hopefully I can use it to do tricks like > virtual memory, protected memory and interruptable/restartable instructions. You are realy pushing hard for the 'All Time Weiredness Award'. It is a bit to late for April 1st, so, Cameron you're a genius ... any chance you're publishing the source code at one time? I'd love to see this on a real computer :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Fri Dec 6 06:02:01 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: Web Site Question (was: OT: _spam_) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021205091600.033ff520@mail.30below.com> References: <182271620008.20021204205128@subatomix.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212040119150.11936-100000@siconic.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212040119150.11936-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021205214810.00d0e82c@pop1.epm.net.co> At 09:26 AM 12/5/02 -0500, you wrote: >That's why he liked the army... he always knew the clothes would match... ;-) Match?!! :-) carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From cbajpai at attbi.com Fri Dec 6 06:56:00 2002 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: Need information on TRSDOS 1.3 internals In-Reply-To: <m18K5fC-000IzSC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <000001c29d27$04528f00$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> All these terms are waking up old memories (and brain cells) from my youth...I used to do some low level programming as a kid on TRSDOS 1.3 in my parent's basement. Thanks for the pleasant memories. -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 6:44 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Need information on TRSDOS 1.3 internals > Each track had 10 sectors. They were allocated to files in groups of > five, which were called granules or grans. There's a Granule Allocation > Table (GAT) which I think was basically an allocation bitmap. TRS-DOS 1.3 ran on the model 3 which used double density (MFM) recording. IIRC, there are 18 sectors per track, and 6 sectors per granule (I think it's 6, not 9). The GAT is much the same on all versions of TRS-DOS, as is the HIT (Hash Index Table -- which relates a hashed form of a filename to the directory entry that contaisn the info for that file). -tony From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 6 07:22:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:22 2005 Subject: Need information on TRSDOS 1.3 internals In-Reply-To: <20021206013843.38aec94d.tim@tim-mann.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212052123470.18304-100000@siconic.com> On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, Tim Mann wrote: > Eric Smith wrote: > > I think you want _TRS-80 Disk and Other Mysteries_. That was one of > > the Mysteries books I didn't have, but ISTR that Al turned up a copy > > recently. > > No, that only covers Model I TRSDOS 2.x and NEWDOS 2.1. Sellam asked > about TRSDOS 1.3, which I have to assume means Model III TRSDOS. Correct. Or at least, the disks I am trying to read files from are definitely TRSDOS 1.3. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Dec 6 07:28:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: KIMplement for the C64 In-Reply-To: <200212060637.WAA28692@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <002201c29d2b$8b87c2c0$020010ac@k4jcw> I presume this would run under an emulated C64 under Windows or Linux? --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Cameron Kaiser Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 01:38 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: KIMplement for the C64 I've threatened to do it and so I did. This is The Incredible KIMplement, a partial emulation of the KIM-1, entirely in software, for the stock Commodore 64. http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/kim-1/ This isn't a joke. It has a full software 6502 core, which works by distilling opcodes down into "safe" equivalents and running those natively to reduce the work it has to do. All memory access is trapped and abstracted. The 6502-on-6502 core is machine-independent and hopefully I can use it to do tricks like virtual memory, protected memory and interruptable/restartable instructions. The emulator includes LED emulation, 6502 emulation (NMOS documented instructions only), SST emulation, keypad emulation, and even supports an emulated TTY. No interval timers yet, but I'm working on it (the ROMs have been trapped so they don't need them). Revision E ROMs are built-in. Hope no one still asserts the rights ... Thanks to Jim Butterfield and Peter Jennings, I've also included Lunar Lander, Addition, Key Train, Sort (all from First Book of KIM) and the original Microchess as a separate download. Beware of Microchess; on the emulator running on a stock C64 in Normal mode, it will take about 30 minutes to compute a move! :-) In the future, I want to use that software core to make a proper OS for the C64 (or Commodore One). The 6502 has gone too long without a proper MMU. Let me know what you guys think, -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Remember, kids: for great justice take off every zig! ---------------------- From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Fri Dec 6 07:32:00 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: UK electronic scrap prices. Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBA5@lif015.merlincommunications.com> > What sort of equipment is this? Old PCs or test gear? I'll tell once I have it, but it's way cooler than PCs. Cheers, Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Fri Dec 6 07:59:01 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: SunOS/Solaris naming (was: Re: Solaris 2.4) In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212050154580.9017-100000@instinct.bears.org > References: <3.0.2.32.20021204215113.00d7fa24@pop1.epm.net.co> <3.0.2.32.20021204215113.00d7fa24@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021206072952.00699b70@pop1.epm.net.co> At 02:31 AM 12/5/02 -0500, you wrote: > >Some of you got pretty close, but most of you were way off. >The name "Solaris" is a Sun marketing designation for the product >combining some version of SunOS plus OpenWindows. ... but the name "Solaris" is an after-the-fact invention for many of these releases; I don't see any mention of Solaris in my 4.1.1 Rev. B CDs or docs. Thanks for clearing up the version numbers mess. >The chronology, starting somewhere in the 4.0 days: -snip:only two interesting releases left in- >Solaris 1.1.1 SunOS 4.1.3_U1 OpenWindows 3.0_U1 12/93 >Solaris 1.1.2 SunOS 4.1.4 OpenWindows 3_414 11/94 >I hope it clears things up. It does, thanks. So, could anyone make ISO copies of the SUNBIN releases of the two versions above and put them on the web? I did not remember 4.1.4 as being released that late, though I know for sure that I was using it in '95 and early '96. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Dec 6 09:15:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: KIMplement for the C64 In-Reply-To: <002201c29d2b$8b87c2c0$020010ac@k4jcw> from "J.C.Wren" at "Dec 6, 2 08:29:45 am" Message-ID: <200212061526.HAA27512@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/kim-1/ > I presume this would run under an emulated C64 under Windows or Linux? Yes, it will. I developed it on an emulator on my Power Mac using a cross-assembler, and then moved it to the real 64 for testing/tweaking. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Conscience makes egotists of us all. -- Oscar Wilde ------------------------ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Dec 6 09:20:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: KIMplement for the C64 In-Reply-To: <3DF09DBC.614.766E0489@localhost> from Hans Franke at "Dec 6, 2 12:53:16 pm" Message-ID: <200212061531.HAA28108@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/kim-1/ > You are realy pushing hard for the 'All Time Weiredness Award'. I'm sure I passed go years ago ;-) > It is a bit to late for April 1st, so, Cameron you're a genius ... > any chance you're publishing the source code at one time? I'd > love to see this on a real computer :) What? the C64 isn't a *real* computer? ;-) Seriously, though, the emulator core is system-independent but it needs a 6502 to run on (or an '816, I guess). To get all of the proper processor flags set quickly, it actually does run selected parts of the code natively. For example, an LDA-absolute is turned into two steps; first is the fetch from emulated memory, and then that result is turned into a native LDA-immediate and executed so I get my N and V flags set for free. I'd have to do a lot more work on another architecture. The Commodore One should kick butt with this, though. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The new Tourette Syndrome movie: Twitch and Shout! -- John Waters ---------- From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Dec 6 09:40:01 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: KIMplement for the C64 In-Reply-To: <200212061531.HAA28108@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <3DF09DBC.614.766E0489@localhost> from Hans Franke at "Dec 6, 2 12:53:16 pm" Message-ID: <3DF0D3B8.28294.7740E670@localhost> > > It is a bit to late for April 1st, so, Cameron you're a genius ... > > any chance you're publishing the source code at one time? I'd > > love to see this on a real computer :) > What? the C64 isn't a *real* computer? ;-) Well, let's skip this ... :) > Seriously, though, the emulator core is system-independent but it needs a > 6502 to run on (or an '816, I guess). To get all of the proper processor > flags set quickly, it actually does run selected parts of the code natively. > For example, an LDA-absolute is turned into two steps; first is the fetch > from emulated memory, and then that result is turned into a native > LDA-immediate and executed so I get my N and V flags set for free. I'd have > to do a lot more work on another architecture. Now, I'd love to see the source code. > The Commodore One should kick butt with this, though. Already a IIgs would add some speed... Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Dec 6 10:30:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: Looking for Michael Nadeau Message-ID: <014901c29d44$f7043420$cb50ef42@oemcomputer> I have been trying for the last few days to reach Michael and all my emails bounce back with fatal errors? Does anyone have a different email address than these two; editor@classictechpub.com and Eletter@lyris.dudee.net Thanks for any help. From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Fri Dec 6 10:34:01 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: Fortran for Humans Book? In-Reply-To: <98379125293.20021206024313@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <NFBBJIFBODGJFILCLOGLKEEDDMAA.wh.sudbrink@verizon.net> > Did anyone here learn Fortran from, or just read, any book called "Fortran > for Humans" or "Fortran 77 for Humans"? In high school, we used what I think was called _The_FORTRAN_Coloring_Book_ (wasn't that what it was called Frank?). That's not the same thing is it? From coredump at gifford.co.uk Fri Dec 6 10:40:00 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: Fortran for Humans Book? References: <NFBBJIFBODGJFILCLOGLKEEDDMAA.wh.sudbrink@verizon.net> Message-ID: <3DF0D231.7090707@gifford.co.uk> Bill Sudbrink wrote: > In high school, we used what I think was called _The_FORTRAN_Coloring_Book_ My all-time favourite computing book! By Dr. Kaufmann of M.I.T. I had a copy many years ago, lent it to someone and never saw it again, and then was given another copy recently. Absolutely superb book! -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From patrick at evocative.com Fri Dec 6 11:03:01 2002 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: Fortran for Humans Book? In-Reply-To: <98379125293.20021206024313@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <NABBLBMGIPBIOFEOPLODEECNJOAA.patrick@evocative.com> Jeffrey, I didn't learn from it myself, but a lot of people I worked with that were "non-technical" (geologists, geophysicists, etc. that weren't formally trained in CS) used it at the time. I was working for a company that did 2D and 3D modeling software (c 1980), and it was written entirely in Fortran, implemented as a library. To use it, you had to be able to write at least a small program to read your data from a file, and make calls into this library (about 30 lines with the right data sets would give you 3D wire mesh perspectives of Mount Saint Helens before and after eruption, for example). Rex's book helped a lot of people be very productive, and it was a bible among the project staff. I also happen to have a copy of his book in my library, still, on the shelf next to Knuth, Sutherland, et al. It's a classic. Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Jeffrey Sharp > Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 12:43 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Fortran for Humans Book? > > > Did anyone here learn Fortran from, or just read, any book called "Fortran > for Humans" or "Fortran 77 for Humans"? > > I just found out: The CS prof I've been spending so much time with for the > last two years, Rex Page, was the principal author of this book. If anyone > has memories of it (good or bad :-), I bet he would get a kick out of > hearing about it at our next meeting. > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp > > From Adrien.Farkas at Sun.COM Fri Dec 6 11:08:00 2002 From: Adrien.Farkas at Sun.COM (Adrien 'freddy' Farkas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: AS/400 troubleshooting? Message-ID: <20021206170933.GA22683@tao.slovakia.sun.com> Hello folks, recently (yesterday) I got a new (for me, of course) AS/400 box, and started to play with it. Everything started okay, booted with no problems (after a year unnoticed in the corner). Today a rebooted it (for whatever reason), turned it on, re-connected the twinax console, but nothing appears. The green cursor remains in the upper right corner (meaning that the AS/400 didn't notice the console yet, afaik). Some hints, ideas, places to point me to? Cheers, -- freddy From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Dec 6 11:25:01 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: Fortran for Humans Book? In-Reply-To: "Bill Sudbrink"'s message of "Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:33:27 -0500" References: <NFBBJIFBODGJFILCLOGLKEEDDMAA.wh.sudbrink@verizon.net> Message-ID: <200212061709.gB6H9PGM077183@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Bill Sudbrink" <wh.sudbrink@verizon.net> wrote: > In high school, we used what I think was called _The_FORTRAN_Coloring_Book_ > (wasn't that what it was called Frank?). That's not the same thing is it? No, that's a different book from _FORTRAN For Humans_. Funny, I only remember boring data processing text books, like the one that told us how to use a keypunch and how to interpret punched cards, an important skill when I got to U of Maryland and found that the 029 keypunches in the basement of the CS building often did not have fresh ribbons. (Bill and I attended the same high school, where there was an HP 3000 Series II (upgraded to a Series III in 1980 I think) for administrative and academic use.) But then I might not have paid a FORTRAN text much attention, having picked that up when we were supposed to be learning BASIC and being more interested at that time in SPL/3000. -Frank McConnell From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Dec 6 11:58:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: Fortran for Humans Book? In-Reply-To: <200212061709.gB6H9PGM077183@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <002a01c29d51$52742390$020010ac@k4jcw> I think I still have 'McCracken on FORTRAN'. If anyone wants it for the cost of mailing, I'll go up to the warehouse and check. In fact, I have about two dozen titles that I will cheerfully give away (for the cost of mailing), but refuse to throw away. I'll grab them this weekend and post a list. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Frank McConnell Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 12:09 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Fortran for Humans Book? "Bill Sudbrink" <wh.sudbrink@verizon.net> wrote: > In high school, we used what I think was called _The_FORTRAN_Coloring_Book_ > (wasn't that what it was called Frank?). That's not the same thing is it? No, that's a different book from _FORTRAN For Humans_. Funny, I only remember boring data processing text books, like the one that told us how to use a keypunch and how to interpret punched cards, an important skill when I got to U of Maryland and found that the 029 keypunches in the basement of the CS building often did not have fresh ribbons. (Bill and I attended the same high school, where there was an HP 3000 Series II (upgraded to a Series III in 1980 I think) for administrative and academic use.) But then I might not have paid a FORTRAN text much attention, having picked that up when we were supposed to be learning BASIC and being more interested at that time in SPL/3000. -Frank McConnell From spector at zeitgeist.com Fri Dec 6 12:03:23 2002 From: spector at zeitgeist.com (David HM Spector) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: new acquisition: an 11/73 running RSX-11 v4.6 and a question on cihper tapes & CDC SMD disks/controllers Message-ID: <DC377F3E-0944-11D7-84C3-000393853BFC@zeitgeist.com> I just got a new acquisition -- a PDP11/73 (born an 11/23 plus but upgraded) -- up and running. Its running RSX-11 v4.6 and I found a useful tidbit which may come in handy to others since I had no info on accounts on this machine and have limited experience with RSX-11 (I was a RSTS, UNIX and VMS guy wrt machines of this era): As it booted, several well-timed ^C's as tasks were being installed got me to an MCR> prompt where I could run $ACNT and make myself an account so I could log in. Re: making accounts, it was a trip to see the "depth" of account info and security on the machine. :-) Its an interesting little machine: M8192 PDP-11/73 processor M8043 DJV11-J 4-port async M3104 8-port async Emulex HD controller (not SMD) -- model not (yet) known Emulatex tape controller (ibid) for Cipher 3200/1600 bpi 9track tape drive 512KW memory (no name or number on board -- only a sticker that says "made in hong kong") M7504 DEQNA Cipher model M890340-96-1050U tape drive KPV-1180 Parallel Line Printer Controller Printronix P6000 ~400lpm line printer (biiig data center cabinet .. dot matrix, circa-1985) It has some flavor of winchester that looks to the OS like an RA81 (but is a 5/25" HDA -- I haven't disassembled every part of the rack yet). Also in its low-boy case are two CDC SMD "Fixed Storage Disks" disks (27"+ deep, > 50 lbs, SMD interface) for which I have an empty slot but no controller for. The model # on the disks is: 72859381. Does anyone have any ideas on these disks and what kind of controller would bring these CDC disks back to life..? (anyone got controllers to trade? I have all sorts of goodies...) Als, any online pointers to maint manuals for the tape drive..? regards, David ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - David HM Spector spector@zeitgeist.com software architecture - network/security consultation technical due diligence - technology planning/analysis Office:(631)261-5013 Cell: (631)431-5756 From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Dec 6 12:24:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: Need information on TRSDOS 1.3 internals In-Reply-To: <20021206013843.38aec94d.tim@tim-mann.org> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212061019420.4318-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> > > I think you want _TRS-80 Disk and Other Mysteries_. That was one of > > the Mysteries books I didn't have, but ISTR that Al turned up a copy > > recently. On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, Tim Mann wrote: > No, that only covers Model I TRSDOS 2.x and NEWDOS 2.1. Sellam asked > about TRSDOS 1.3, which I have to assume means Model III TRSDOS. True. But before we deal with the parameters (MOSTLY minor) that differ, he needs a tutorial on how the directory structure works for that family of operating systems. Pennington's book provides a good one, unless and until one of us has an opportunity to sit down with him and go through the details. For example, for READING files, he doesn't need to know all of the details of the H.I.T., but I'm sure that he would appreciate learning it ANYWAY, and he will need it sometime in the future when he wants to WRITE files. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Dec 6 13:02:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: The ACE is recovering :-) Message-ID: <004c01c29d5a$6dfb5300$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Hi all, I've finally found the glitch in my Jupiter Ace. When the power supply was momentarily reversed (and applied to the I/O port), the CPU (a NEC D780C) and one of the RAMs (NatSemi MM2114) packed up. After replacing the CPU with a spare (OK, I pinched it out of a Toshiba HX-10 MSX), I've managed to perform a bit of testing. With the CPU out, everything looked good. When I powered up and probed all the data and I/O lines, D7 was locked to 0V and D6 was sitting at around 2.5V. Obviously, something was overloading the Z80's data bus, causing it to overheat significantly. After removing the RAM (and nearly pulling up four pads), the Z80 seems to be running fine. RFSH is pulsing, as are M1 and CLK. The data and address lines look OK on my scope, too. So, it looks like the Z80 bit the dust when the PSU touched the I/O port, then it proceeded to dump 9V into D6 and D7. After that, it let out the magic smoke. Thankfully both ROMs (TMS2532s - TI's clone of the 2732) seem to be OK. The only "interesting" thing is that the current draw is around 500mA with everything except one of the RAMs and the CPU fitted. With the CPU (a Sharp LH0080A) fitted, the current consumption rises to approx. 620mA. Can someone with a working Ace please check the current consumption of their unit for me? Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 6 13:18:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: TI-2532 (was Re: The ACE is recovering :-)) In-Reply-To: <004c01c29d5a$6dfb5300$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20021206192030.16970.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Philip Pemberton <philpem@dsl.pipex.com> wrote: > Thankfully both ROMs (TMS2532s - TI's clone of the 2732) seem to be OK. Good thing, too, because the 2532 is not pin-compatible with the 2732. It's pin-compatible with the 2332 mask-programmed ROM. The 2532 is familiar to PET owners - it's what you need to drop right into the open sockets next to the BASIC ROMs. My 2001-N has three: BASIC-AID, a replacement machine-language monitor, PAICS BASIC Toolkit and Eastern House Software's ROM-Rabbit - twelve throbbing K of firmware goodness. :-) I was lucky enough to fall into a carton of boards that someone else pulled from some unknown brand of dumb terminal - a 6502 on every board, plus several 2532s and some wierd stuff like EA-3400 EAROMs. Bonus: every chip was socketed! I always inspect stuff from the 1980s for 2532s. They were much less commonly used than the 2732s. OTOH, if you only need 2K, the 2716 works fine in a PET. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From patrick at evocative.com Fri Dec 6 13:47:01 2002 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: TI-2532 (was Re: The ACE is recovering :-)) In-Reply-To: <20021206192030.16970.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <NABBLBMGIPBIOFEOPLODAEDHJOAA.patrick@evocative.com> Ethan, good advice. I also think that since many of these chips are rare, it's worth the effort to pull them out of their sockets, drop them into a burner and copy them out to hex files for archival storage. Does anybody do this as a practice, or am I overly paranoid? --Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Ethan Dicks > Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 11:21 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: TI-2532 (was Re: The ACE is recovering :-)) > > > > --- Philip Pemberton <philpem@dsl.pipex.com> wrote: > > Thankfully both ROMs (TMS2532s - TI's clone of the 2732) seem to be OK. > > Good thing, too, because the 2532 is not pin-compatible with the 2732. > It's pin-compatible with the 2332 mask-programmed ROM. > > The 2532 is familiar to PET owners - it's what you need to drop right > into the open sockets next to the BASIC ROMs. My 2001-N has three: > BASIC-AID, a replacement machine-language monitor, PAICS BASIC Toolkit > and Eastern House Software's ROM-Rabbit - twelve throbbing K of firmware > goodness. :-) > > I was lucky enough to fall into a carton of boards that someone else > pulled from some unknown brand of dumb terminal - a 6502 on every board, > plus several 2532s and some wierd stuff like EA-3400 EAROMs. Bonus: > every chip was socketed! > > I always inspect stuff from the 1980s for 2532s. They were much less > commonly used than the 2732s. OTOH, if you only need 2K, the 2716 > works fine in a PET. > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > From allain at panix.com Fri Dec 6 13:50:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: OpenVMS VAX hobbysit CD References: <4.3.2.7.2.20021205230945.03d85580@pop.azstarnet.com> Message-ID: <001501c29d60$a47d6de0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > The hobbyist PAKs are ordinary PAKs except that they > are time-limited to one year, and they are unlimited use. This sounds easy to misunderstand. Sounds like "limited to one year Plus infinity". What am I missing? John A. From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Dec 6 13:53:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: KIMplement for the C64 In-Reply-To: <200212061531.HAA28108@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <3DF09DBC.614.766E0489@localhost> from Hans Franke at "Dec 6, 2 12:53:16 pm" <200212061531.HAA28108@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <2050.4.20.168.187.1039204396.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > What? the C64 isn't a *real* computer? ;-) Nope. Doesn't have a front panel with switches and blinking lights. Get yourself a PDP-11/05 or something fun like that. :-) From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 6 13:55:46 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: KIMplement for the C64 In-Reply-To: <200212061531.HAA28108@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212060353200.19648-100000@siconic.com> On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Seriously, though, the emulator core is system-independent but it needs > a 6502 to run on (or an '816, I guess). To get all of the proper > processor flags set quickly, it actually does run selected parts of the > code natively. For example, an LDA-absolute is turned into two steps; > first is the fetch from emulated memory, and then that result is turned > into a native LDA-immediate and executed so I get my N and V flags set > for free. I'd have to do a lot more work on another architecture. Cameron, yopu are simply AWESOME! I want to play with this on my Apple ][. I seem to remember a program I had for the Apple ][ that emulates the 6502 also. In fact, I have it here in my office. I think I'll dig it out and try to figure out how it worked (since I never really played with it back then). But still, Cameron, you are AWESOME! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 6 13:59:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: Need information on TRSDOS 1.3 internals In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212061019420.4318-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212060356480.19648-100000@siconic.com> On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > But before we deal with the parameters (MOSTLY minor) that differ, he > needs a tutorial on how the directory structure works for that family of > operating systems. Pennington's book provides a good one, unless and > until one of us has an opportunity to sit down with him and go through the > details. > > For example, for READING files, he doesn't need to know all of the details > of the H.I.T., but I'm sure that he would appreciate learning it ANYWAY, > and he will need it sometime in the future when he wants to WRITE files. Well, for now I am content (and only have time) to learn hwo to read files only. But yes, at some point it would be nice to understand the whole architecture, as it would allow me to compare with the Apple ][ DOS. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dittman at dittman.net Fri Dec 6 14:26:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: OpenVMS VAX hobbysit CD In-Reply-To: <001501c29d60$a47d6de0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Dec 06, 2002 02:49:51 PM Message-ID: <200212062027.gB6KRifd030169@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > The hobbyist PAKs are ordinary PAKs except that they > > are time-limited to one year, and they are unlimited use. > > This sounds easy to misunderstand. Sounds like "limited > to one year Plus infinity". What am I missing? He meant they are unlimited users. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From jss at subatomix.com Fri Dec 6 14:32:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: Spamproofing the Archives Message-ID: <0421790362.20021206143418@subatomix.com> Current idea on spamproofing the archives: [0] Every email address in the archives is replaced with a shortened form. For instance: user@domain.com -> user@d... [1] The shortened address is link to a CGI script like this: http://www.subatomix.com/cgi-bin/email?asf3uhh0239q0bs The script generates a page that asks the user to type in a specific string to prove they're human. The query string above is the email address with some some simple sort of encryption. [2] The user types in the string and presses Submit, and it runs the CGI again, but with the typed string as part of the query string: http://www.subatomix.com/cgi-bin/email?asf3uhh0239q0bs,abbabdedf Now the script generates a page with the real email address as a mailto hyperlink. The user may bookmark this page if he/she wishes. Surely this is enough to defeat address harvesters. Does anyone see any problems with this? -- Jeffrey Sharp From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 6 14:43:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: Driving a 7805 or how else to get +5VDC reg (was Re: My first good find!!!) In-Reply-To: <m18K5j7-000IzUC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <20021206204443.13459.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> > [ACE PSU] > ...a 7805 1A linear regulator which needs around > 8V to 15V to run properly. So I was thinking about this recently... I have this 6V battery pack that is intended to clamp to the back of a ZIP drive, allowing it to be used away from power, say with a laptop. I've wanted to use it for a portable source of juice for hobby projects (it has, among other features, a built-in 110V mains plug and recharger, making it handy to recharge), but I haven't expected to be able to feed a 7805 at +6VDC and get +5VDC out the other side reliably. How can I take +6VDC of battery power and get +5VDC regulated power from it? If it matters, the currents involved will be under 1000mA, but probably over 200mA. -ethan P.S. - I don't mind the concept of a DC-DC converter, but I'm not skilled enough to design one, just skilled enough to build it. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From n4fs at monmouth.com Fri Dec 6 14:53:00 2002 From: n4fs at monmouth.com (Mike Feher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: Driving a 7805 or how else to get +5VDC reg (was Re: My first good find!!!) References: <20021206204443.13459.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <014701c29d69$969e9f60$086dbd18@n4fs> You could just put a silicon diode that is forward biased in series with the 6 volts. It will drop close to 0.7 volts. Make sure it has the current handling capacity that you need. In other words, do not use a signal diode. At 0.5 amps the diode would dissipate 0.35 watts. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ, 07731 (732) 901-9193 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" <erd_6502@yahoo.com> To: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 3:44 PM Subject: Driving a 7805 or how else to get +5VDC reg (was Re: My first good find!!!) > > > [ACE PSU] > > ...a 7805 1A linear regulator which needs around > > 8V to 15V to run properly. > > So I was thinking about this recently... I have this 6V battery > pack that is intended to clamp to the back of a ZIP drive, allowing > it to be used away from power, say with a laptop. I've wanted > to use it for a portable source of juice for hobby projects (it > has, among other features, a built-in 110V mains plug and recharger, > making it handy to recharge), but I haven't expected to be able to > feed a 7805 at +6VDC and get +5VDC out the other side reliably. > > How can I take +6VDC of battery power and get +5VDC regulated power > from it? If it matters, the currents involved will be under 1000mA, > but probably over 200mA. > > -ethan > > P.S. - I don't mind the concept of a DC-DC converter, but I'm not > skilled enough to design one, just skilled enough to build it. > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > From avickers at solutionengineers.com Fri Dec 6 15:16:00 2002 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: Spamproofing the Archives In-Reply-To: <0421790362.20021206143418@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021206210246.018b6e68@slave> At 20:34 06/12/2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: >Current idea on spamproofing the archives: > >[0] Every email address in the archives is replaced with a shortened form. > For instance: > > user@domain.com -> user@d... I like that idea. >[1] The shortened address is link to a CGI script like this: > > http://www.subatomix.com/cgi-bin/email?asf3uhh0239q0bs > > The script generates a page that asks the user to type in a specific > string to prove they're human. The query string above is the email > address with some some simple sort of encryption. I'd suggest an MD5 hash code - it's not necessarily unique, although that shouldn't be a problem, and it's non-reversable. >Surely this is enough to defeat address harvesters. Does anyone see any >problems with this? Looks good to me. I'd personally prefer the mailto link wasn't (i.e. just a plaintext address for the user to cut'n'paste), but the solution as proposed works for me. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From jim at jkearney.com Fri Dec 6 15:19:01 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: Driving a 7805 or how else to get +5VDC reg (was Re: My first good find!!!) References: <20021206204443.13459.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <05bc01c29d6d$1924bf70$1301090a@xpace.net> >From: "Ethan Dicks" <erd_6502@yahoo.com> > How can I take +6VDC of battery power and get +5VDC regulated power > from it? If it matters, the currents involved will be under 1000mA, > but probably over 200mA. The 7805 is an _old_ design. A modern LDO (Low Drop Out) regulator like an LM2940 can maintain 5v out down to around 5.5v in. Of course with many types of batteries you have the problem of voltage sag as they discharge, and then you would need some kind of buck-boost (DC-DC) converter to maintain 5v. From classiccmp at crash.com Fri Dec 6 15:40:01 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: Spamproofing the Archives Message-ID: <200212062141.gB6Lf7g00572@io.crash.com> > [2] The user types in the string and presses Submit, and it runs the CGI > > ... > > Now the script generates a page with the real email address as a mailto > hyperlink. The user may bookmark this page if he/she wishes. Why expose the address at all? How about you send the (plain text only) note on to the addressee w/o disclosing the address. If the recipient wants the sender to know their address, they'll respond to them. The same script could be used if there are any pages on the classiccmp web site where a user could/should have an opportunity to send mail, e.g. to the site maintainer, members listed as contacts or resources for system XYZ, etc. Just a thought, --Steve. From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Dec 6 15:51:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: OpenVMS VAX hobbysit CD In-Reply-To: <001501c29d60$a47d6de0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212061655210.30086-100000@ibm-ps850.purdueriots.com> On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, John Allain wrote: > > The hobbyist PAKs are ordinary PAKs except that they > > are time-limited to one year, and they are unlimited use. > > This sounds easy to misunderstand. Sounds like "limited > to one year Plus infinity". What am I missing? I believe he meant 'unlimited users' not 'use'. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Dec 6 16:03:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: Driving a 7805 or how else to get +5VDC reg (was Re: My first good find!!!) In-Reply-To: <20021206204443.13459.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003101c29d6a$dc19d590$020010ac@k4jcw> You can use a switcher chip, but that's little bit of a pain to build by hand, since the majority are surface mount, and you need a good ground plane (not really hard, just not as easy as a 7805 and a bridge rectifier). Basically, the problem is that a diode drop is .6 volts, so you need a minimum of 5.6 volts of input, and that's with a low drop-out regulator. That doesn't leave much room for your battery to die. A normal 7805 really wants 7V minimum to regulate reliably. And depending on the current load, 15V on a 7805 is a Bad Idea, because it's got to dump that 10V drop as heat. That's 10 watts at 1 amp, which is a damn lotta heat in a TO-220 case. Ideally, a 7805 should be run at 7V or 8V to keep heat to a minimum. If you do want to build a switcher, just about everybody has a switcher chip that will work about .2V to .4V above the regulated output voltage. Maxim is the first place I'd look. Get some double sided copper clad board for a ground place, use an Xacto or a Dremel tool to route traces. Some of the companies also offer free or very low cost eval boards. For instance, National Semi has a switcher eval that takes 4V to 30V and produces 3.3V out at 1 amp. They're $8. It has two caps on it that cost me $2 each, plus having boards turned, the switcher itself, and a few other incidental parts. It's cheaper for me to buy them than it is produce my own (I use them a lot in prototyping projects). When trying to get 5V from 6V, especially on batteries, linear regulators aren't really the way to go. You'll dump a lot of the battery's energy as heat, which is wasteful. Same for a Zener type regulator. You could use a a couple diodes in series, but your output voltage will sink as your battery voltage drops, since the drop across the diode is the same. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 15:45 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Driving a 7805 or how else to get +5VDC reg (was Re: My first good find!!!) > [ACE PSU] > ...a 7805 1A linear regulator which needs around > 8V to 15V to run properly. So I was thinking about this recently... I have this 6V battery pack that is intended to clamp to the back of a ZIP drive, allowing it to be used away from power, say with a laptop. I've wanted to use it for a portable source of juice for hobby projects (it has, among other features, a built-in 110V mains plug and recharger, making it handy to recharge), but I haven't expected to be able to feed a 7805 at +6VDC and get +5VDC out the other side reliably. How can I take +6VDC of battery power and get +5VDC regulated power from it? If it matters, the currents involved will be under 1000mA, but probably over 200mA. -ethan P.S. - I don't mind the concept of a DC-DC converter, but I'm not skilled enough to design one, just skilled enough to build it. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From dundas at caltech.edu Fri Dec 6 16:10:00 2002 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: new acquisition: an 11/73 running RSX-11 v4.6 and a question on cihper tapes & CDC SMD disks/controllers In-Reply-To: <DC377F3E-0944-11D7-84C3-000393853BFC@zeitgeist.com> Message-ID: <v03130309ba16cf576005@[131.215.48.178]> At 10:02 AM -0800 12/6/02, David HM Spector wrote: >I just got a new acquisition -- a PDP11/73 (born an 11/23 plus but >upgraded) -- up and running. Congratulations. I too have a /73; it's a lot of fun. >Its an interesting little machine: > > Emulex HD controller (not SMD) -- model not (yet) known This is the thing to explore next. In my case I have an Emulex SC02/C. It is an SMD disk controller that acts like an RK611 (RK06/07) controller. > Printronix P6000 ~400lpm line printer (biiig data center cabinet .. >dot matrix, circa-1985) I could be wrong, but I think that's a P600. The 600 lpm version of the P300 (otherwise identical). I broke my back (literally) on one of these. >It has some flavor of winchester that looks to the OS like an RA81 (but >is a 5/25" HDA -- I haven't disassembled every part of the rack yet). >Also in its low-boy case are two CDC SMD "Fixed Storage Disks" disks >(27"+ deep, > 50 lbs, SMD interface) for which I have an empty slot but >no controller for. The model # on the disks is: 72859381. > > >Does anyone have any ideas on these disks and what kind of controller >would bring these CDC disks back to life..? (anyone got controllers to >trade? I have all sorts of goodies...) Als, any online pointers to >maint manuals for the tape drive..? Again, I also have a CDC drive hooked to the SMD controller. Don't have the model handy, but I think what you have above is the serial number, not the model. I don't have any docs, but am looking for some too. As others have pointed out, probably the best thing is to find a SCSI controller and ditch SMD. I have a Dilog SQ706A, for which I am unable to find docs. However it does appear to be a SCSI controller emulating MSCP. I recommend finding a suitable SCSI controller. Good luck, John From sloboyko at yahoo.com Fri Dec 6 16:20:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: Driving a 7805 or how else to get +5VDC reg (was Re: My first good find!!!) In-Reply-To: <20021206204443.13459.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021206222215.40021.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> There are low-dropout regulators that can do this, but they are more expensive. Another thing I've done in thes3 --- Ethan Dicks <erd_6502@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > [ACE PSU] > > ...a 7805 1A linear regulator which needs around > > 8V to 15V to run properly. > > So I was thinking about this recently... I have this > 6V battery > pack that is intended to clamp to the back of a ZIP > drive, allowing > it to be used away from power, say with a laptop. > I've wanted > to use it for a portable source of juice for hobby > projects (it > has, among other features, a built-in 110V mains > plug and recharger, > making it handy to recharge), but I haven't expected > to be able to > feed a 7805 at +6VDC and get +5VDC out the other > side reliably. > > How can I take +6VDC of battery power and get +5VDC > regulated power > from it? If it matters, the currents involved will > be under 1000mA, > but probably over 200mA. > > -ethan > > P.S. - I don't mind the concept of a DC-DC > converter, but I'm not > skilled enough to design one, just skilled enough to > build it. > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up > now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 6 16:28:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: The ACE is recovering :-) In-Reply-To: <004c01c29d5a$6dfb5300$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021206165343.479f646e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> This might be a good time to make a dump of the ROMs before one of them bites the dust. Reversing the voltage on them could have damaged them and they may not last long. It's not a big risk but without the content of those ROMs the rest of the machine is a paperweight. Joe At 07:05 PM 12/6/02 -0000, you wrote: >Hi all, > I've finally found the glitch in my Jupiter Ace. When the power supply >was momentarily reversed (and applied to the I/O port), the CPU (a NEC >D780C) and one of the RAMs (NatSemi MM2114) packed up. After replacing the >CPU with a spare (OK, I pinched it out of a Toshiba HX-10 MSX), I've managed >to perform a bit of testing. With the CPU out, everything looked good. When >I powered up and probed all the data and I/O lines, D7 was locked to 0V and >D6 was sitting at around 2.5V. Obviously, something was overloading the >Z80's data bus, causing it to overheat significantly. After removing the RAM >(and nearly pulling up four pads), the Z80 seems to be running fine. RFSH is >pulsing, as are M1 and CLK. The data and address lines look OK on my scope, >too. > So, it looks like the Z80 bit the dust when the PSU touched the I/O >port, then it proceeded to dump 9V into D6 and D7. After that, it let out >the magic smoke. Thankfully both ROMs (TMS2532s - TI's clone of the 2732) >seem to be OK. > The only "interesting" thing is that the current draw is around 500mA >with everything except one of the RAMs and the CPU fitted. With the CPU (a >Sharp LH0080A) fitted, the current consumption rises to approx. 620mA. Can >someone with a working Ace please check the current consumption of their >unit for me? > >Later. >-- >Phil. >philpem@dsl.pipex.com >http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 6 16:31:04 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: Driving a 7805 or how else to get +5VDC reg (was Re: My first good find!!!) In-Reply-To: <20021206204443.13459.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> References: <m18K5j7-000IzUC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021206173237.479faa1e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I think there are some forms of the 7805 that only need .6V (one diode drop) of overhead so you should be able to run them on as little as 5.6V and still get 5V output. Also you may look inside your battery pack and find that it uses a higher voltage internally and then regulates it down to 6VDC. If so you can take power off ahead of the intenal regulator. Joe At 12:44 PM 12/6/02 -0800, you wrote: > >> [ACE PSU] >> ...a 7805 1A linear regulator which needs around >> 8V to 15V to run properly. > >So I was thinking about this recently... I have this 6V battery >pack that is intended to clamp to the back of a ZIP drive, allowing >it to be used away from power, say with a laptop. I've wanted >to use it for a portable source of juice for hobby projects (it >has, among other features, a built-in 110V mains plug and recharger, >making it handy to recharge), but I haven't expected to be able to >feed a 7805 at +6VDC and get +5VDC out the other side reliably. > >How can I take +6VDC of battery power and get +5VDC regulated power >from it? If it matters, the currents involved will be under 1000mA, >but probably over 200mA. > >-ethan > >P.S. - I don't mind the concept of a DC-DC converter, but I'm not >skilled enough to design one, just skilled enough to build it. > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com > From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Fri Dec 6 16:35:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: OpenVMS VAX hobbysit CD Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19603429D@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >I believe he meant 'unlimited users' not 'use'. PAKs are limited in several ways (not all of which are used in practice). One typical way was that each PAK would grant a certain number of "units" for a given product. So using the FORTRAN compiler on a relatively slow MicroVAX 3900 series box might require say 500 units, while using the same compiler on a VAX 7000-860 might require perhaps 10000 units (I'm making up the numbers ...). Later on, some products switched to activity based licences. In the above example 500 units allows you as many concurrent FORTRAN compilations as your MicroVAX can stand. With activity based licences, your FORTRAN compilation on a certain platform might eat up 100 activity units so with a 500 activity licence you could run 5 FORTRAN compiles simultaneously. Then there were user-based licences ... In short, it appears that the hobbyist licences are limited only in time (they expire after a year) but will work without restriction on both your MicroVAX I and your AlphaServer GS320 during that year. Antonio From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Dec 6 16:39:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: The ACE is recovering :-) References: <3.0.6.16.20021206165343.479f646e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001d01c29d78$8661fc00$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Joe wrote: > This might be a good time to make a dump of the ROMs before one of > them bites the dust. Reversing the voltage on them could have damaged > them and they may not last long. It's not a big risk but without the > content of those ROMs the rest of the machine is a paperweight. I'm not even sure they are 2532s (they might be 2732s). They're TI branded and carry the part numbers "ACE-A" and "ACE-B". I don't have an EPROM programmer either... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From jingber at ix.netcom.com Fri Dec 6 16:50:00 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: Wire wrapping Message-ID: <1039215035.21062.3.camel@supermicro> Not strictly classiccmp related, but applies to a repair I'm trying perform on a "classic" machine. I purchased a wire-wrap tool from DigiKey (PN# K104-ND) and a spool of the proper wire. Unfortunately, I've never done wire wrap, and it's not obvious how this tool is used. Does anyone have any good resources that explains wire wrapping? For reference, the tool looks like a scredriver, but has two hollow ends, one of which has a long slit running down the side. Thanks, Jeff From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 6 17:01:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: Morrow Designs external 8" floppy drive? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021206180741.4747cc4c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone know what system these are for? I've never heard of one before. I had a MD-2 and it used 5 1/4" drives. This is in a biege case about 8" tall x 6" wide x 20" deep. It has ribbon cable header (50 pin?) on the back along with an AC socket and power switch, the drive appears to be a FH Shugart. Joe From red at bears.org Fri Dec 6 17:04:07 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: AS/400 troubleshooting? In-Reply-To: <20021206170933.GA22683@tao.slovakia.sun.com> References: <20021206170933.GA22683@tao.slovakia.sun.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212061800420.10226-100000@instinct.bears.org> On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, Adrien 'freddy' Farkas wrote: > year unnoticed in the corner). Today a rebooted it (for whatever reason), > turned it on, re-connected the twinax console, but nothing appears. The > green cursor remains in the upper right corner (meaning that the AS/400 didn't > notice the console yet, afaik). Some hints, ideas, places to point me to? It would help to know what model of AS/400 you have. I think you must have reconnected it to a different place than before. The AS/400 console is expected at twinax port 0 address 0. If you didn't put the terminal back on port 0, it won't be the console, and if the system doesn't finish coming up, nothing will display anywhere other than the console terminal. Are there any diag codes indicated on the front panel? ok r. From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Dec 6 17:08:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: Wire wrapping In-Reply-To: <1039215035.21062.3.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <003901c29d7c$a7b110e0$020010ac@k4jcw> Look here, and follow the link for hints on wire wrapping. With the pictures, it'll be far better than anyone can explain in just words. http://www.okindustries.com/products/4.1.1.1.htm --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeffrey H. Ingber Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 17:51 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Wire wrapping Not strictly classiccmp related, but applies to a repair I'm trying perform on a "classic" machine. I purchased a wire-wrap tool from DigiKey (PN# K104-ND) and a spool of the proper wire. Unfortunately, I've never done wire wrap, and it's not obvious how this tool is used. Does anyone have any good resources that explains wire wrapping? For reference, the tool looks like a scredriver, but has two hollow ends, one of which has a long slit running down the side. Thanks, Jeff From jim at jkearney.com Fri Dec 6 17:11:06 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: Wire wrapping References: <1039215035.21062.3.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <078801c29d7c$1edcfd60$1301090a@xpace.net> >From: "Jeffrey H. Ingber" <jingber@ix.netcom.com> > Does anyone have any good resources that explains wire wrapping? This web page has some nice, clear explanations and pictures: http://www.stdpneumatic.com/resource/tech_wire.html Jim From red at bears.org Fri Dec 6 17:15:01 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: SunOS/Solaris naming (was: Re: Solaris 2.4) In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20021206072952.00699b70@pop1.epm.net.co> References: <3.0.2.32.20021204215113.00d7fa24@pop1.epm.net.co> <3.0.2.32.20021204215113.00d7fa24@pop1.epm.net.co> <3.0.2.32.20021206072952.00699b70@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212061803260.10226-100000@instinct.bears.org> On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, Carlos Murillo wrote: > ... but the name "Solaris" is an after-the-fact invention > for many of these releases; I don't see any mention of Solaris > in my 4.1.1 Rev. B CDs or docs. Not at all. I have CDs published by Sun designated "Solaris 1.0.1 (a release of SunOS 4.1.2 and OpenWindows 2.0)", from that time. http://www.bears.org/~red/typewritten/Software/index.html#Sun Really, the confusion stems from Sun continuing to differentiate the "Solaris" product from "SunOS" until the SunOS 5 days. > It does, thanks. So, could anyone make ISO copies of the > SUNBIN releases of the two versions above and put them > on the web? I think Sun would take a dim view of that. Contact me off list and I'll see if there might not be another way I could help. ok r. From Adrien.Farkas at Sun.COM Fri Dec 6 17:19:01 2002 From: Adrien.Farkas at Sun.COM (Adrien 'freddy' Farkas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: AS/400 troubleshooting? In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212061800420.10226-100000@instinct.bears.org> References: <20021206170933.GA22683@tao.slovakia.sun.com> <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212061800420.10226-100000@instinct.bears.org> Message-ID: <20021206232125.GB22865@tao.slovakia.sun.com> r. 'bear' stricklin (red@bears.org) wrote : > It would help to know what model of AS/400 you have. Hmm, the problem is that I don't know what model that is. On the box there is nothing that might help to identify the model type, the only thing I know is that it was a little one (the smallest and narrowest) model with added storage expansion (which makes it twice as wide). > I think you must have reconnected it to a different place than before. The > AS/400 console is expected at twinax port 0 address 0. If you didn't put > the terminal back on port 0, it won't be the console, and if the system > doesn't finish coming up, nothing will display anywhere other than the > console terminal. hmmm, I definitely didn't change any connections, it's connected to twinax port 0 on the as/400 and enters _left_ part of the Y-cable on the 3477 terminal. I'm dumb in all the IPL and other AS/400 basics, so I don't want to bother you with dummy questions. if there is any place to read about this, please point me to it so we can talk on another level, not 'do this, do that'. > Are there any diag codes indicated on the front panel? when it worked, the IPL set was 'B N', which seemed to be 'disk' and 'normal boot'. I tried perhaps all the combinations of ABCD and NM, but nothing really worked for me. when selecting some IPL and powering on the box, different addresses (?) appear on the LCD front panel. the left LED (the green one) flashes in quite a random manner (loading something?), but there is nothing on the console. perhaps seems to be a console problem... perhaps. if you know the 3477 terminal, can you tell me all the requiered settings? one/two display, unit numbers etc etc, I'd be really thankful! thanks in advance, -- freddy From glenslick at hotmail.com Fri Dec 6 17:25:01 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: Wire wrapping (electric tools?) Message-ID: <F81owT8ImJfor5US3aI000133eb@hotmail.com> Do you have any experience using Standard Pneumatic electric wire wrap tools? 6021 models with bits can sometimes be had on eBay in the $40 range, which isn't a whole lot more than buying a new manual tool. Would that be overkill for a small computer project, or would it be nice to have? >From: "Jim Kearney" <jim@jkearney.com> >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> >Subject: Re: Wire wrapping >Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:06:33 -0500 > > >From: "Jeffrey H. Ingber" <jingber@ix.netcom.com> > > Does anyone have any good resources that explains wire wrapping? > >This web page has some nice, clear explanations and pictures: > >http://www.stdpneumatic.com/resource/tech_wire.html > >Jim _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Fri Dec 6 17:29:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: Wire wrapping Message-ID: <200212062331.PAA26640@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jeffrey H. Ingber" <jingber@ix.netcom.com> > >Not strictly classiccmp related, but applies to a repair I'm trying >perform on a "classic" machine. I purchased a wire-wrap tool from >DigiKey (PN# K104-ND) and a spool of the proper wire. Unfortunately, >I've never done wire wrap, and it's not obvious how this tool is used. >Does anyone have any good resources that explains wire wrapping? > >For reference, the tool looks like a scredriver, but has two hollow >ends, one of which has a long slit running down the side. > >Thanks, >Jeff > Hi Jeff This is a manual tool and takes a little practice. You need to first start by stripping about .75 to 1 inch of insulation from the end of the wire. There is a built in stripper. Look at the spring steel part in the center of the tool. It has a slit in it that you slide the wire in and then pull the wire from the other side. Now that you have the end, thread the wire from the end, under the small sleeve and along the groove at the side of the shaft. It doesn't have to stay in the groove but make sure it doesn't get kinked or bent badly. Slide the tool and wire over a wire wrap post. Place your index finger at the unwrapper end and twizzle the tool clockwise. This is the tricky part. You need to put enough pressure with your index finger so that there are no opening between wraps but not too much or you'll get overlapped wraps. I also find that the first turn of the tool should have no pressure until the wire has one start wrap. You will also find that you won't be able to twizzle it to completion as one motion. You need to make sure that it doesn't back rotate as you go for another grab with your fingers ( this is where another hand comes in handy ). If you get an opening between wraps, don't think you can just squeeze it down to until it looks OK. This make a loose wrap that will have poor electrical connection. Overlapped wraps should be redone as well. Now, go and practice. You'll get the hang of it soon enough. Dwight From red at bears.org Fri Dec 6 17:36:00 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:23 2005 Subject: AS/400 troubleshooting? In-Reply-To: <20021206232125.GB22865@tao.slovakia.sun.com> References: <20021206170933.GA22683@tao.slovakia.sun.com> <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212061800420.10226-100000@instinct.bears.org> <20021206232125.GB22865@tao.slovakia.sun.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212061833200.10226-100000@instinct.bears.org> On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Adrien 'freddy' Farkas wrote: > Hmm, the problem is that I don't know what model that is. On the box there > is nothing that might help to identify the model type, the only thing I know > is that it was a little one (the smallest and narrowest) model with added > storage expansion (which makes it twice as wide). It should say somewhere on it, though not likely in a big flashing sign. It sounds like you have something like a 9406-400 > hmmm, I definitely didn't change any connections, it's connected to twinax > port 0 on the as/400 and enters _left_ part of the Y-cable on the 3477 > terminal. It shouldn't matter which side of the Y-cable. > I'm dumb in all the IPL and other AS/400 basics, so I don't want to > bother you with dummy questions. if there is any place to read about > this, please point me to it so we can talk on another level, not 'do > this, do that'. Nah, I don't know much about it either. There aren't any really good references I could point you to, since I've been looking for one, myself. > different addresses (?) appear on the LCD front panel. the left LED (the green > one) flashes in quite a random manner (loading something?), but there is > nothing on the console. Those addresses are the diag codes I was inquiring after. What are the last ones you see? > perhaps seems to be a console problem... perhaps. if you know the 3477 > terminal, can you tell me all the requiered settings? one/two display, unit > numbers etc etc, I'd be really thankful! I doubt the unit number in the terminal could've changed itself, though I suppose it's possible. Double check it's still set to unit number 0. Otherwise it sounds to me like your terminal is all set up correctly, and there's something else amiss. ok r. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 6 17:39:02 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Sighted: GenRad 2300 Advanced Developement System Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021206184421.492ff5fc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Anyone know what this is? The main unit looks about like a terminal with a builtin CRT and keyboard and has boards in the back that look simialr to STD bus cards (but I didn't look close). There are two other units, one has two 8" floppy drives in it and the other says that it's an expansion unit. Joe From archer at topnow.com Fri Dec 6 17:43:01 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Driving a 7805 or how else to get +5VDC reg (was Re: My first good find!!!) References: <20021206204443.13459.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3DF1364A.1FC7F80@topnow.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > [ACE PSU] > > ...a 7805 1A linear regulator which needs around > > 8V to 15V to run properly. > > So I was thinking about this recently... I have this 6V battery > pack that is intended to clamp to the back of a ZIP drive, allowing > it to be used away from power, say with a laptop. I've wanted > to use it for a portable source of juice for hobby projects (it > has, among other features, a built-in 110V mains plug and recharger, > making it handy to recharge), but I haven't expected to be able to > feed a 7805 at +6VDC and get +5VDC out the other side reliably. > > How can I take +6VDC of battery power and get +5VDC regulated power > from it? If it matters, the currents involved will be under 1000mA, > but probably over 200mA. > > -ethan > > P.S. - I don't mind the concept of a DC-DC converter, but I'm not > skilled enough to design one, just skilled enough to build it. You don't have to build one. They are available as sealed "modules" with pins for gazinta and gazouta; very easy to use. An added advantage, when you're running off battery power, is very high efficiency for maximum operating time off your batteries. Just be sure to figure out what your battery is putting out when it's just about to be exhausted, and try to get a converter that can operate on this input voltage to get all the capacity out. Check out Jameco, Digi-Key's website to see if there's anything that fits the bill. I have a huge bin full of the venerable old 7805s. They work and they're simple, but they're also terribly inefficient and tend to run quite hot unless extensively heat-sinked, especially towards the upper end of the voltage input range and/or close to rated current flowing to the 5 volt load. I fondly remember a home-made KIM-1 power supply made with a 7812 and 7805. Despite a relatively huge heat-sinking area, the damn thing was running nearly hot enough to cause burns. I think the input voltage was around 8-10 volts somewhere. After the "MacDonald's Coffee-in-Lap" lawsuit, I wonder if I coulda sued TI for burning my fingers. ;) -- Ross > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com From donm at cts.com Fri Dec 6 17:55:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Morrow Designs external 8" floppy drive? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021206180741.4747cc4c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0212061553340.28620-100000@crash.cts.com> On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, Joe wrote: > Does anyone know what system these are for? I've never heard of > one before. I had a MD-2 and it used 5 1/4" drives. This is in a biege > case about 8" tall x 6" wide x 20" deep. It has ribbon cable header > (50 pin?) on the back along with an AC socket and power switch, the > drive appears to be a FH Shugart. > > Joe Most likely to be part of the Morrow DiskJockey line as used with the Morrow Decision S100 and others. - don > From jim at jkearney.com Fri Dec 6 18:00:01 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Wire wrapping (electric tools?) References: <F81owT8ImJfor5US3aI000133eb@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <07e801c29d83$f9356d60$1301090a@xpace.net> >From: "Glen Slick" <glenslick@hotmail.com> > Do you have any experience using Standard Pneumatic electric wire wrap > tools? 6021 models with bits can sometimes be had on eBay in the $40 range, > which isn't a whole lot more than buying a new manual tool. I've got a Gardner-Denver (Wire-wrap) 27179 myself, but it's very close to the SP in design, possibly an OEM version. I love it. Wraps are fast, solid and consistent. Combined with a good assortment of pre-stripped wire lengths, it's a least 5x faster than hand wrapping. I bought my tool on eBay, but without the bit, and they turn out to be pretty expensive! You really only need a #30 for digital circuits, maybe a #26 for power buses. These guys have reasonable prices for both roll and prestripped wire: http://www.wireprepne.com/. Jim From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Dec 6 18:03:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: AS/400 troubleshooting? In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212061833200.10226-100000@instinct.bears.org> References: <20021206170933.GA22683@tao.slovakia.sun.com> <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212061800420.10226-100000@instinct.bears.org> <20021206232125.GB22865@tao.slovakia.sun.com> <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212061833200.10226-100000@instinct.bears.org> Message-ID: <3677.4.20.168.187.1039219380.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >> Hmm, the problem is that I don't know what model that is. On the box >> there is nothing that might help to identify the model type, the only >> thing I know is that it was a little one (the smallest and narrowest) >> model with added storage expansion (which makes it twice as wide). > > It should say somewhere on it, though not likely in a big flashing sign. > It sounds like you have something like a 9406-400 If it's a small model, I'd expect it to be a 9402. Intermediate sized machines were 9404. If it's an older CISC architecture machine, the model suffix might have a letter and two digits; the one I had was a 9406-B45; the B series was pretty old. Later CISC and most (all?) of the RISC models have a three digit numeric suffix. It's definitely true that IBM didn't make it easy to identify AS/400 systems or their options. From Adrien.Farkas at Sun.COM Fri Dec 6 18:05:58 2002 From: Adrien.Farkas at Sun.COM (Adrien 'freddy' Farkas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: AS/400 troubleshooting? In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212061833200.10226-100000@instinct.bears.org> References: <20021206170933.GA22683@tao.slovakia.sun.com> <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212061800420.10226-100000@instinct.bears.org> <20021206232125.GB22865@tao.slovakia.sun.com> <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212061833200.10226-100000@instinct.bears.org> Message-ID: <20021207000451.GA22984@tao.slovakia.sun.com> r. 'bear' stricklin (red@bears.org) wrote : > On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Adrien 'freddy' Farkas wrote: > > > Hmm, the problem is that I don't know what model that is. On the box there > > is nothing that might help to identify the model type, the only thing I know > > is that it was a little one (the smallest and narrowest) model with added > > storage expansion (which makes it twice as wide). > > It should say somewhere on it, though not likely in a big flashing sign. > It sounds like you have something like a 9406-400 almost exact guess, 9402-400, written by hand inside the box ;) > > different addresses (?) appear on the LCD front panel. the left LED (the green > > one) flashes in quite a random manner (loading something?), but there is > > nothing on the console. > > Those addresses are the diag codes I was inquiring after. What are the > last ones you see? C6004260 seems to eb the last code shown, now the green LED flashes (quite quickly), nothing on the LCD and 3477 changed for 15minutes... > I doubt the unit number in the terminal could've changed itself, though I > suppose it's possible. Double check it's still set to unit number 0. > Otherwise it sounds to me like your terminal is all set up correctly, and > there's something else amiss. it's set to address 0 and 1 (two displays), still blank, cursor in the upper right corner. cheers, -- freddy From Innfogra at aol.com Fri Dec 6 18:20:01 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Morrow Designs external 8" floppy drive? Message-ID: <11.3f6e5e2.2b229924@aol.com> In a message dated 12/6/02 3:04:32 PM Pacific Standard Time, rigdonj@cfl.rr.com writes: > > > Does anyone know what system these are for? I've never heard of one > before. I had a MD-2 and it used 5 1/4" drives. This is in a biege case > about 8" tall x 6" wide x 20" deep. It has ribbon cable header (50 pin?) on > the back along with an AC socket and power switch, the drive appears to be > a FH Shugart. > > It sounds like it is an external drive cabinet. Morrow had external cabinets for single and dual 8" floppy and hard drives. Used with their S100 systems that preceded your MD-2 series. I believe Morrow got it's start with S100 systems. Paxton Astoria, OR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021206/cf60b637/attachment.html From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Dec 6 18:23:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Driving a 7805 or how else to get +5VDC reg (was Re: My first good find!!!) In-Reply-To: <3DF1364A.1FC7F80@topnow.com> References: <20021206204443.13459.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> <3DF1364A.1FC7F80@topnow.com> Message-ID: <3040.4.20.168.187.1039220572.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >> P.S. - I don't mind the concept of a DC-DC converter, but I'm not >> skilled enough to design one, just skilled enough to build it. > > You don't have to build one. They are available as sealed > "modules" with pins for gazinta and gazouta; very easy to > use. Three-terminal switcher modules intended to replace three-terminal regulators are fairly expensive, around $11 and up in small quantities. Digikey has some made by TI, page 416 of catalog T023 (Sept-Dec 2002). If anyone wants an isolated 5V to 9V converter, I've got a huge pile of them. I use them with a 7805 to get an isolated 5V supply. From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Dec 6 18:26:00 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Morrow Designs external 8" floppy drive? In-Reply-To: Joe's message of "Fri, 06 Dec 2002 18:07:41" References: <3.0.6.16.20021206180741.4747cc4c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200212070012.gB70CkT5085298@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Joe <rigdonj@cfl.rr.com> wrote: > biege case about 8" tall x 6" wide x 20" deep. It has ribbon > cable header (50 pin?) on the back along with an AC socket and > power switch, the drive appears to be a FH Shugart. It's just a drive in an external drive box w/power supply. Morrow sold S-100 floppy disk controllers and external drives to go with them. -Frank McConnell From Adrien.Farkas at Sun.COM Fri Dec 6 18:40:01 2002 From: Adrien.Farkas at Sun.COM (Adrien 'freddy' Farkas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: AS/400 troubleshooting? In-Reply-To: <20021207000451.GA22984@tao.slovakia.sun.com> References: <20021206170933.GA22683@tao.slovakia.sun.com> <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212061800420.10226-100000@instinct.bears.org> <20021206232125.GB22865@tao.slovakia.sun.com> <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212061833200.10226-100000@instinct.bears.org> <20021207000451.GA22984@tao.slovakia.sun.com> Message-ID: <20021207004206.GB22984@tao.slovakia.sun.com> Adrien 'freddy' Farkas (Adrien.Farkas@sun.com) wrote : > > Those addresses are the diag codes I was inquiring after. What are the > > last ones you see? > > C6004260 seems to eb the last code shown, now the green LED flashes (quite > quickly), nothing on the LCD and 3477 changed for 15minutes... correction, booting resumed, passed throug rest of C600xxxx codes, moved on to C900xxxx and finished with C9002C30, after which 'display selected IPL - "01 B N"' function appeared and remained there. this should already be booted (seems to me), however terminal is still blank with no login prompt asking me to enter the system. I can even telnet to the system, however I get 'Connection to an AS/400 host system ended because no NVT device description is available.', but this seems to be another part of the story... well, looks like my beautiful 3477 is broken :-/ -- freddy From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Dec 6 18:47:01 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: The ACE is recovering :-) In-Reply-To: "Philip Pemberton" <philpem@dsl.pipex.com> "Re: The ACE is recovering :-)" (Dec 6, 22:40) References: <3.0.6.16.20021206165343.479f646e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <001d01c29d78$8661fc00$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <10212070028.ZM4803@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 6, 22:40, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Joe wrote: > > This might be a good time to make a dump of the ROMs before one of > > them bites the dust. > I'm not even sure they are 2532s (they might be 2732s). They're TI branded > and carry the part numbers "ACE-A" and "ACE-B". I don't have an EPROM > programmer either... Besides, the image is on the web: http://www.home-micros.freeserve.co.uk/JupiterAce/JupiterAce.html near the bottom of the page. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From sloboyko at yahoo.com Fri Dec 6 19:02:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Wire wrapping (electric tools?) In-Reply-To: <07e801c29d83$f9356d60$1301090a@xpace.net> Message-ID: <20021207010438.37503.qmail@web11802.mail.yahoo.com> I've bought from the company mentioned below and like the product + price. Will never buy WW from Jameco again! --- Jim Kearney <jim@jkearney.com> wrote: > >From: "Glen Slick" <glenslick@hotmail.com> > > Do you have any experience using Standard > Pneumatic electric wire wrap > > tools? 6021 models with bits can sometimes be had > on eBay in the $40 > range, > > which isn't a whole lot more than buying a new > manual tool. > > I've got a Gardner-Denver (Wire-wrap) 27179 myself, > but it's very close to > the SP in design, possibly an OEM version. I love > it. Wraps are fast, > solid and consistent. Combined with a good > assortment of pre-stripped wire > lengths, it's a least 5x faster than hand wrapping. > > I bought my tool on eBay, but without the bit, and > they turn out to be > pretty expensive! You really only need a #30 for > digital circuits, maybe a > #26 for power buses. > > These guys have reasonable prices for both roll and > prestripped wire: > http://www.wireprepne.com/. > > Jim > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 6 19:09:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: The ACE is recovering :-) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021206165343.479f646e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Dec 6, 2 04:53:43 pm Message-ID: <m18KTB8-000IzlC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 663 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021206/13551ae0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 6 19:12:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Driving a 7805 or how else to get +5VDC reg (was Re: My first good find!!!) In-Reply-To: <20021206204443.13459.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 6, 2 12:44:43 pm Message-ID: <m18KTJT-000IzoC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 742 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021206/c8c40923/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 6 19:14:57 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: The ACE is recovering :-) In-Reply-To: <004c01c29d5a$6dfb5300$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> from "Philip Pemberton" at Dec 6, 2 07:05:22 pm Message-ID: <m18KTDn-000IzmC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1040 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021206/fb959dfb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 6 19:18:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: TI-2532 (was Re: The ACE is recovering :-)) In-Reply-To: <NABBLBMGIPBIOFEOPLODAEDHJOAA.patrick@evocative.com> from "Patrick Rigney" at Dec 6, 2 11:49:09 am Message-ID: <m18KTGN-000IznC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 823 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021206/6a5eb693/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 6 19:20:57 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Wire wrapping In-Reply-To: <1039215035.21062.3.camel@supermicro> from "Jeffrey H. Ingber" at Dec 6, 2 05:50:33 pm Message-ID: <m18KTPn-000IzpC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1950 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021206/dab92230/attachment.ksh From jingber at ix.netcom.com Fri Dec 6 19:24:35 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Wire wrapping In-Reply-To: <200212062331.PAA26640@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200212062331.PAA26640@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <1039224169.21062.9.camel@supermicro> On Fri, 2002-12-06 at 18:31, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi Jeff > This is a manual tool and takes a little practice. > You need to first start by stripping about .75 to 1 inch of > insulation from the end of the wire. There is a built Thanks to everyone who provided links. After a few tries I've got it figured out =). I ordered a roll of wire which has a built-in stripper which makes nice 1" cuts. Pretty easy process, but I find the slit in the tool to be annoying, as the wire would continually get caught in it. What is the purpose of this? I assume it's to allow you to remove broken wire from the tool easily? I just kept a finger over the slit and eventually was able to get some good wraps. If I had to do this more often I would probably spring for a better tool, but for a once (or twice-off) this seems to do the job. Thanks! Jeff > in stripper. Look at the spring steel part in the center > of the tool. It has a slit in it that you slide the > wire in and then pull the wire from the other side. > Now that you have the end, thread the wire from the > end, under the small sleeve and along the groove at the > side of the shaft. It doesn't have to stay in the groove > but make sure it doesn't get kinked or bent badly. > Slide the tool and wire over a wire wrap post. Place > your index finger at the unwrapper end and twizzle the > tool clockwise. This is the tricky part. You need to > put enough pressure with your index finger so that > there are no opening between wraps but not too much > or you'll get overlapped wraps. I also find that the > first turn of the tool should have no pressure until > the wire has one start wrap. You will also find > that you won't be able to twizzle it to completion > as one motion. You need to make sure that it doesn't > back rotate as you go for another grab with your > fingers ( this is where another hand comes in handy ). > If you get an opening between wraps, don't think you > can just squeeze it down to until it looks OK. This > make a loose wrap that will have poor electrical connection. > Overlapped wraps should be redone as well. > Now, go and practice. You'll get the hang of it soon > enough. > Dwight > > > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Fri Dec 6 19:29:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Driving a 7805 or how else to get +5VDC reg (was Re: My first good find!!!) Message-ID: <200212070131.RAA26714@clulw009.amd.com> >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk > >> How can I take +6VDC of battery power and get +5VDC regulated power >> from it? If it matters, the currents involved will be under 1000mA, >> but probably over 200mA. > >Take a look at 'low dropout regulators'. National Semiconductor make >(made?) them -- LM2940 series I think. They will work down to about 0.6V >difference between input and output (so for a 5V regulator, you need at >least 5.6V in). These are similar to the 7805 -- 3 terminals, and you >need to put a couple of decoupling caps near the chip. > >That probably won't let you use all the capacity of your '6V' battery, >but it should let you use some of it. > >Incidentally, I assuem the Zip drive produced 5V internally from this >battery pack. Any ideas what it used? > >-tony > > Hi He didn't say what kind of batteries he was using to provide 6V. Different batteries have different discharge voltages. Even though a lead-acid battery is fully discharged at 5V. Using it until 5.5V and then recharging is a good idea for longer life. Even if the regulator drops below 5V on the output, most circuits will work down to 4.8V someplace or lower. A low dropout regulator, as you suggest, might still be the best option. Dwight From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Dec 6 19:41:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Spamproofing the Archives In-Reply-To: <200212062141.gB6Lf7g00572@io.crash.com> from Steve Jones at "Dec 6, 2 04:42:55 pm" Message-ID: <200212070152.RAA27482@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Why expose the address at all? How about you send the (plain text only) > note on to the addressee w/o disclosing the address. If the recipient > wants the sender to know their address, they'll respond to them. I think this is a great idea. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Immigration is the sincerest form of flattery. -- Jack Paar ---------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Dec 6 19:45:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: KIMplement for the C64 In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212060353200.19648-100000@siconic.com> from Sellam Ismail at "Dec 6, 2 03:54:26 am" Message-ID: <200212070156.RAA27520@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I want to play with this on my Apple ][. The core is portable, anyway. The remaining hardware emulation uses sprites and a few other tricks which might be a bit harder but still doable. > I seem to remember a program I had for the Apple ][ that emulates the 6502 > also. In fact, I have it here in my office. I think I'll dig it out and > try to figure out how it worked (since I never really played with it back > then). I remember this too. Wasn't it called something like The Visual Computer, or some such? One of my 6502 programming books stepped you through creating a simulation of the 6502 in software, but it was in BASIC, and it didn't cover all the opcodes (bummer). Otherwise it was exceptionally educational. > But still, Cameron, you are AWESOME! *blush* -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I've been in the van fifteen years, Harry! -- "True Lies" ------------------ From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Fri Dec 6 19:48:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Wire wrapping Message-ID: <200212070149.RAA26719@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jeffrey H. Ingber" <jingber@ix.netcom.com> > >On Fri, 2002-12-06 at 18:31, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >> Hi Jeff >> This is a manual tool and takes a little practice. >> You need to first start by stripping about .75 to 1 inch of >> insulation from the end of the wire. There is a built > >Thanks to everyone who provided links. After a few tries I've got it >figured out =). > >I ordered a roll of wire which has a built-in stripper which makes nice >1" cuts. Pretty easy process, but I find the slit in the tool to be >annoying, as the wire would continually get caught in it. What is the >purpose of this? I assume it's to allow you to remove broken wire from >the tool easily? I just kept a finger over the slit and eventually was >able to get some good wraps. > >If I had to do this more often I would probably spring for a better >tool, but for a once (or twice-off) this seems to do the job. > >Thanks! >Jeff Hi Like any skill, it takes practice. You want to feed the free end of the wire through the side that doesn't have the stripper on it. You then push the wire into the groove with a finger nail. If done correctly, you won't have a bend in the wire at the stripper and the wire will not break when you strip it. You'll find that the spool/stripper unit have the same problem. The only strippers I've ever found that worked well on wire wrap were those ones that looked like small pliers and had white plastic shells that would guide the wire onto stripper blades. I'm not sure who sells these as they were units I picked up at a surplus store. As for power wrappers. These require some skill to use as well. With these, one can make a larger mess quicker than using a manual tool. It is all about practice and timing. I've used professional electric and air powered wrapping tools. I also have one of those cheap battery powered ones at home. With a little practice, I find that I can do just as good a job with any of them. I've done larger projects. One needs to plan out the flow of how you are going to place the wires. Two level wire wrapping takes planning. Three level is a little more forgiving but it is easy to bend the pins and cause shorts. Dwight > > >> in stripper. Look at the spring steel part in the center >> of the tool. It has a slit in it that you slide the >> wire in and then pull the wire from the other side. >> Now that you have the end, thread the wire from the >> end, under the small sleeve and along the groove at the >> side of the shaft. It doesn't have to stay in the groove >> but make sure it doesn't get kinked or bent badly. >> Slide the tool and wire over a wire wrap post. Place >> your index finger at the unwrapper end and twizzle the >> tool clockwise. This is the tricky part. You need to >> put enough pressure with your index finger so that >> there are no opening between wraps but not too much >> or you'll get overlapped wraps. I also find that the >> first turn of the tool should have no pressure until >> the wire has one start wrap. You will also find >> that you won't be able to twizzle it to completion >> as one motion. You need to make sure that it doesn't >> back rotate as you go for another grab with your >> fingers ( this is where another hand comes in handy ). >> If you get an opening between wraps, don't think you >> can just squeeze it down to until it looks OK. This >> make a loose wrap that will have poor electrical connection. >> Overlapped wraps should be redone as well. >> Now, go and practice. You'll get the hang of it soon >> enough. >> Dwight >> >> >> > > > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Fri Dec 6 20:00:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Wire wrapping Message-ID: <200212070201.SAA26724@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I forgot to mention. Use a good sharp pair of wire cutters. If you use some of the cheaper diagonals, they flatten the wire, rather then cutting it. This makes the job of stripping much harder since the covering doesn't slide off easily. Just more of wire wrap lore. Dwight >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwightk.elvey@amd.com> > >>From: "Jeffrey H. Ingber" <jingber@ix.netcom.com> >> >>On Fri, 2002-12-06 at 18:31, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >>> Hi Jeff >>> This is a manual tool and takes a little practice. >>> You need to first start by stripping about .75 to 1 inch of >>> insulation from the end of the wire. There is a built >> >>Thanks to everyone who provided links. After a few tries I've got it >>figured out =). >> >>I ordered a roll of wire which has a built-in stripper which makes nice >>1" cuts. Pretty easy process, but I find the slit in the tool to be >>annoying, as the wire would continually get caught in it. What is the >>purpose of this? I assume it's to allow you to remove broken wire from >>the tool easily? I just kept a finger over the slit and eventually was >>able to get some good wraps. >> >>If I had to do this more often I would probably spring for a better >>tool, but for a once (or twice-off) this seems to do the job. >> >>Thanks! >>Jeff > >Hi > Like any skill, it takes practice. You want to feed the >free end of the wire through the side that doesn't have >the stripper on it. You then push the wire into the >groove with a finger nail. If done correctly, you won't >have a bend in the wire at the stripper and the wire >will not break when you strip it. > You'll find that the spool/stripper unit have the same >problem. The only strippers I've ever found that worked >well on wire wrap were those ones that looked like >small pliers and had white plastic shells that would >guide the wire onto stripper blades. I'm not sure who >sells these as they were units I picked up at a surplus >store. > As for power wrappers. These require some skill to use >as well. With these, one can make a larger mess quicker >than using a manual tool. It is all about practice and >timing. I've used professional electric and air powered >wrapping tools. I also have one of those cheap battery >powered ones at home. With a little practice, I find >that I can do just as good a job with any of them. > I've done larger projects. One needs to plan out the >flow of how you are going to place the wires. Two level >wire wrapping takes planning. Three level is a little >more forgiving but it is easy to bend the pins and cause >shorts. >Dwight > > >> >> >>> in stripper. Look at the spring steel part in the center >>> of the tool. It has a slit in it that you slide the >>> wire in and then pull the wire from the other side. >>> Now that you have the end, thread the wire from the >>> end, under the small sleeve and along the groove at the >>> side of the shaft. It doesn't have to stay in the groove >>> but make sure it doesn't get kinked or bent badly. >>> Slide the tool and wire over a wire wrap post. Place >>> your index finger at the unwrapper end and twizzle the >>> tool clockwise. This is the tricky part. You need to >>> put enough pressure with your index finger so that >>> there are no opening between wraps but not too much >>> or you'll get overlapped wraps. I also find that the >>> first turn of the tool should have no pressure until >>> the wire has one start wrap. You will also find >>> that you won't be able to twizzle it to completion >>> as one motion. You need to make sure that it doesn't >>> back rotate as you go for another grab with your >>> fingers ( this is where another hand comes in handy ). >>> If you get an opening between wraps, don't think you >>> can just squeeze it down to until it looks OK. This >>> make a loose wrap that will have poor electrical connection. >>> Overlapped wraps should be redone as well. >>> Now, go and practice. You'll get the hang of it soon >>> enough. >>> Dwight >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From sloboyko at yahoo.com Fri Dec 6 20:29:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Wire wrapping In-Reply-To: <200212070201.SAA26724@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20021207023107.71577.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> I use a manual Radio Shack tool. I can't wrap very quickly, but I can't think and check any faster than I can wrap, so it works out...I tried an electric one but I found it to be overkill and the cord was heavy and annoying. Those pneumatic ones are nice and light except for the compressor! A rechargeable one would be interesting. --- "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwightk.elvey@amd.com> wrote: > Hi > I forgot to mention. Use a good sharp pair of wire > cutters. If you use some of the cheaper diagonals, > they flatten the wire, rather then cutting it. > This makes the job of stripping much harder since > the covering doesn't slide off easily. > Just more of wire wrap lore. > Dwight > > > >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwightk.elvey@amd.com> > > > >>From: "Jeffrey H. Ingber" <jingber@ix.netcom.com> > >> > >>On Fri, 2002-12-06 at 18:31, Dwight K. Elvey > wrote: > >>> Hi Jeff > >>> This is a manual tool and takes a little > practice. > >>> You need to first start by stripping about .75 > to 1 inch of > >>> insulation from the end of the wire. There is a > built > >> > >>Thanks to everyone who provided links. After a > few tries I've got it > >>figured out =). > >> > >>I ordered a roll of wire which has a built-in > stripper which makes nice > >>1" cuts. Pretty easy process, but I find the slit > in the tool to be > >>annoying, as the wire would continually get caught > in it. What is the > >>purpose of this? I assume it's to allow you to > remove broken wire from > >>the tool easily? I just kept a finger over the > slit and eventually was > >>able to get some good wraps. > >> > >>If I had to do this more often I would probably > spring for a better > >>tool, but for a once (or twice-off) this seems to > do the job. > >> > >>Thanks! > >>Jeff > > > >Hi > > Like any skill, it takes practice. You want to > feed the > >free end of the wire through the side that doesn't > have > >the stripper on it. You then push the wire into the > >groove with a finger nail. If done correctly, you > won't > >have a bend in the wire at the stripper and the > wire > >will not break when you strip it. > > You'll find that the spool/stripper unit have the > same > >problem. The only strippers I've ever found that > worked > >well on wire wrap were those ones that looked like > >small pliers and had white plastic shells that > would > >guide the wire onto stripper blades. I'm not sure > who > >sells these as they were units I picked up at a > surplus > >store. > > As for power wrappers. These require some skill to > use > >as well. With these, one can make a larger mess > quicker > >than using a manual tool. It is all about practice > and > >timing. I've used professional electric and air > powered > >wrapping tools. I also have one of those cheap > battery > >powered ones at home. With a little practice, I > find > >that I can do just as good a job with any of them. > > I've done larger projects. One needs to plan out > the > >flow of how you are going to place the wires. Two > level > >wire wrapping takes planning. Three level is a > little > >more forgiving but it is easy to bend the pins and > cause > >shorts. > >Dwight > > > > > >> > >> > >>> in stripper. Look at the spring steel part in > the center > >>> of the tool. It has a slit in it that you slide > the > >>> wire in and then pull the wire from the other > side. > >>> Now that you have the end, thread the wire from > the > >>> end, under the small sleeve and along the groove > at the > >>> side of the shaft. It doesn't have to stay in > the groove > >>> but make sure it doesn't get kinked or bent > badly. > >>> Slide the tool and wire over a wire wrap post. > Place > >>> your index finger at the unwrapper end and > twizzle the > >>> tool clockwise. This is the tricky part. You > need to > >>> put enough pressure with your index finger so > that > >>> there are no opening between wraps but not too > much > >>> or you'll get overlapped wraps. I also find that > the > >>> first turn of the tool should have no pressure > until > >>> the wire has one start wrap. You will also find > >>> that you won't be able to twizzle it to > completion > >>> as one motion. You need to make sure that it > doesn't > >>> back rotate as you go for another grab with your > >>> fingers ( this is where another hand comes in > handy ). > >>> If you get an opening between wraps, don't > think you > >>> can just squeeze it down to until it looks OK. > This > >>> make a loose wrap that will have poor electrical > connection. > >>> Overlapped wraps should be redone as well. > >>> Now, go and practice. You'll get the hang of it > soon > >>> enough. > >>> Dwight > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 6 20:35:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Spamproofing the Archives In-Reply-To: <0421790362.20021206143418@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212061035520.20707-100000@siconic.com> On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > [0] Every email address in the archives is replaced with a shortened form. > For instance: > > user@domain.com -> user@d... Cool. Yahoo! does this, although I think they require you to enter your Yahoo! ID and password. > [1] The shortened address is link to a CGI script like this: > > http://www.subatomix.com/cgi-bin/email?asf3uhh0239q0bs > > The script generates a page that asks the user to type in a specific > string to prove they're human. The query string above is the email > address with some some simple sort of encryption. Is the string to be typed in displayed as ASCII text or as a graphic with some "fuzz" behind it to fool agressive spammers? I've seen this done, where the background of the text is various sized ovals to fool any OCR software as well. Wicked. > [2] The user types in the string and presses Submit, and it runs the CGI > again, but with the typed string as part of the query string: > > http://www.subatomix.com/cgi-bin/email?asf3uhh0239q0bs,abbabdedf > > Now the script generates a page with the real email address as a mailto > hyperlink. The user may bookmark this page if he/she wishes. > > Surely this is enough to defeat address harvesters. Does anyone see any > problems with this? Aside from being a tad cumbersome, no. I think it would be easier to just hunt down and vilely murder all spammers. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 6 20:39:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Spamproofing the Archives In-Reply-To: <200212062141.gB6Lf7g00572@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212061038270.20707-100000@siconic.com> On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, Steve Jones wrote: > Why expose the address at all? How about you send the (plain text only) > note on to the addressee w/o disclosing the address. If the recipient > wants the sender to know their address, they'll respond to them. Here's an idea that's based on this one. The e-mail address in the message is replaced with a unique ID for each unique e-mail address in the CC archives. The sender clicks on the link and a CGI form asks them for THEIR e-mail address. After a look-up in a simple database, the ID is translated into the actual e-mail address and a short message is sent to the original poster saying "such-and-such from <email address> wants to contact you". All this can be easily implemented in PHP (CGI is so passe). I still think it's easier to just find all spammers and rip their small intestines out, then make chitlins with them and feed them back to them. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 6 20:42:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Morrow Designs external 8" floppy drive? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021206180741.4747cc4c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212061042250.20707-100000@siconic.com> On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, Joe wrote: > Does anyone know what system these are for? I've never heard of one > before. I had a MD-2 and it used 5 1/4" drives. This is in a biege case > about 8" tall x 6" wide x 20" deep. It has ribbon cable header (50 pin?) > on the back along with an AC socket and power switch, the drive appears > to be a FH Shugart. This sounds like the drive chassis for the original Morrow 1 S-100 system. I've only seen one, and that was at VCF 2.0. If you don't want it, I'm interested ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 6 20:46:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: KIMplement for the C64 In-Reply-To: <200212070156.RAA27520@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212061046580.20707-100000@siconic.com> On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > I want to play with this on my Apple ][. > > The core is portable, anyway. The remaining hardware emulation uses sprites > and a few other tricks which might be a bit harder but still doable. Sprites? What for? > > I seem to remember a program I had for the Apple ][ that emulates the 6502 > > also. In fact, I have it here in my office. I think I'll dig it out and > > try to figure out how it worked (since I never really played with it back > > then). > > I remember this too. Wasn't it called something like The Visual Computer, or > some such? Yes, that's it! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Dec 6 21:42:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: KIMplement for the C64 In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212061046580.20707-100000@siconic.com> from Sellam Ismail at "Dec 6, 2 10:47:34 am" Message-ID: <200212070354.TAA09184@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > The core is portable, anyway. The remaining hardware emulation uses sprites > > and a few other tricks which might be a bit harder but still doable. > > Sprites? What for? The LEDs are sprites. I've configured them so that the same value used on the KIM used to light the appropriate segments, is the same value the emulator uses to select which sprite shape to show. Makes it very simple. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- TRUE HEADLINE: Miners Refuse To Work After Death --------------------------- From sloboyko at yahoo.com Fri Dec 6 21:51:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Driving a 7805 or how else to get +5VDC reg (was Re: My first good find!!!) In-Reply-To: <m18KTJT-000IzoC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <20021207035337.80149.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> I'll bet it used a NiCd, which gives ~4.8 volts for the vast percentage of a charge - which is "kinda" in tolerance of most +5 logic. Those things were so cheap, do you think they'd use a step-up DC-DC converter? Nah. --- Tony Duell <ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > How can I take +6VDC of battery power and get > +5VDC regulated power > > from it? If it matters, the currents involved > will be under 1000mA, > > but probably over 200mA. > > Take a look at 'low dropout regulators'. National > Semiconductor make > (made?) them -- LM2940 series I think. They will > work down to about 0.6V > difference between input and output (so for a 5V > regulator, you need at > least 5.6V in). These are similar to the 7805 -- 3 > terminals, and you > need to put a couple of decoupling caps near the > chip. > > That probably won't let you use all the capacity of > your '6V' battery, > but it should let you use some of it. > > Incidentally, I assuem the Zip drive produced 5V > internally from this > battery pack. Any ideas what it used? > > -tony > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From pietstan at rogers.com Fri Dec 6 22:02:01 2002 From: pietstan at rogers.com (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Spamproofing the Archives References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212061035520.20707-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <3DF172F0.8000007@rogers.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > <<snip>> > I think it would be easier to just hunt down and vilely murder all > spammers. > With any luck, all you'd have to is get a few of them and the rest would disappear off the face of the earth out of fear of the same fate.... ;-}) Stan From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Dec 6 22:33:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Spamproofing the Archives In-Reply-To: <3DF172F0.8000007@rogers.com> Message-ID: <000801c29daa$0087b4d0$020010ac@k4jcw> I presume you've seen this http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/12/06/1554227&mode=flat&tid=133, then? --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Stan Pietkiewicz Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 23:03 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Spamproofing the Archives Sellam Ismail wrote: > <<snip>> > I think it would be easier to just hunt down and vilely murder all > spammers. > With any luck, all you'd have to is get a few of them and the rest would disappear off the face of the earth out of fear of the same fate.... ;-}) Stan From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Fri Dec 6 22:49:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Wire wrapping References: <200212070149.RAA26719@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3DF17E2B.9E5C5179@compsys.to> >"Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > Like any skill, it takes practice. You want to feed the > free end of the wire through the side that doesn't have > the stripper on it. You then push the wire into the > groove with a finger nail. If done correctly, you won't > have a bend in the wire at the stripper and the wire > will not break when you strip it. > You'll find that the spool/stripper unit have the same > problem. The only strippers I've ever found that worked > well on wire wrap were those ones that looked like > small pliers and had white plastic shells that would > guide the wire onto stripper blades. I'm not sure who > sells these as they were units I picked up at a surplus > store. Jerome Fine replies: Experience is the key - after about 6 wire wraps you should be able to do the job reasonably well, although speed will probably take a bit longer. As for stripping the wire, I have found that an ordinary wire stripper to do the job quite well. I set the size for the wire gauge. Sometimes it takes a few adjustments. I usually like to start with a wire that is the correct length and bare about 3/4" at both ends. For some reason I don't understand, I usually find that it is faster and much more straightforward to first strip 1 1/2" of wire at one end of the wire while it is STILL attached to the spool. I then cut the wire from the spool at the correct overall size plus about 1/4". The last 1/4" is then (usually) easily stripped. Most of the time, the insulation can be centered on the total length by holding the 1/4" end with a needle nose pliers - not including the extra 1/4" which is often made flat by the needle nose pliers - while the other hand gently guides the insulation into its middle position. The last 1/4" is probably best removed at this point. The actual wire wrap with a piece that is the correct size is rarely difficult. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 6 23:15:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: The ACE is recovering :-) In-Reply-To: <m18KTB8-000IzlC@p850ug1> References: <3.0.6.16.20021206165343.479f646e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021206211654.00a0aec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >While I agree that it's _always_ a good idea to keep a backup of ROMs, in >this case it's not essential. The Ace is relatively rare, but it's still >common enough that there are several other people on this list with one, You can never have too many backups of data sets this small, besides the chance of a different version make at least checking worthwhile. From dundas at its.caltech.edu Fri Dec 6 23:41:00 2002 From: dundas at its.caltech.edu (John Dundas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Settings for MSV11-Q Message-ID: <200212070542.VAA22645@blinky.its.caltech.edu> Anyone have the jumper settings for a 4MB MSV11-QC (M7551-CF) memory board for a PDP-11? I just got one, but don't know how the DIP switches and jumpers should be set. A PDF of the User Guide would be even better, but help or pointers with the jumpers/switches would be great. Thanks, John From jss at subatomix.com Sat Dec 7 00:27:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Spamproofing the Archives In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021206210246.018b6e68@slave> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021206210246.018b6e68@slave> Message-ID: <11333001042.20021207002844@subatomix.com> On Friday, December 6, 2002, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > http://www.subatomix.com/cgi-bin/email?asf3uhh0239q0bs > > > > The script generates a page that asks the user to type in a specific > > string to prove they're human. The query string above is the email > > address with some some simple sort of encryption. > > I'd suggest an MD5 hash code - it's not necessarily unique, although that > shouldn't be a problem, and it's non-reversable. :-) The way I had thunk it, it would need to be both unique and reversable. The confirm/reveal script would decode it to figure out what email address to show to the user. Gotta be deterministic on the decode, you see. At least for the first part, anyway. |||||||||||||||||||| vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv alkfhpauu3efh09ashfa,abcabcabc ^^^^^^^^^ ||||||||| Now the second part up there need not be unique or reversable. If the right numbers are tacked on there at the end, the script would know to actually show the email address instead of generate a confirm page. But this is all moot, because another post has got my mind 90% changed to something simpler. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Sat Dec 7 00:32:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Spamproofing the Archives In-Reply-To: <200212062141.gB6Lf7g00572@io.crash.com> References: <200212062141.gB6Lf7g00572@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <12833314483.20021207003357@subatomix.com> On Friday, December 6, 2002, Steve Jones wrote: > Why expose the address at all? How about you send the (plain text only) > note on to the addressee w/o disclosing the address. If the recipient > wants the sender to know their address, they'll respond to them. Well, that *is* a easier way to do it. I had thought of that, but I wasn't sure if there were enough steps involved. What I don't want is a person sending spam *though* this interface. How safe do you think this solution is against that? It *would* be easier to implement and less cumbersome. Not that the original idea was hard... > The same script could be used if there are any pages on the classiccmp web > site where a user could/should have an opportunity to send mail, e.g. to > the site maintainer, members listed as contacts or resources for system > XYZ, etc. I'm liking this more and more... -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Sat Dec 7 00:36:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Spamproofing the Archives In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212061035520.20707-100000@siconic.com> References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212061035520.20707-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <16933527800.20021207003731@subatomix.com> On Friday, December 6, 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > a graphic with some "fuzz" behind it to fool agressive spammers? I've seen > this done, where the background of the text is various sized ovals to fool > any OCR software as well. Wicked. Yeah. I've seen that before and liked it very much. The only problem is it doesn't work in nongraphical browsers, and I will be targeting those. > Aside from being a tad cumbersome, no. True. > I think it would be easier to just hunt down and vilely murder all > spammers. Not being in the mafia does have its disadvantages. :-/ -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Sat Dec 7 00:53:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Spamproofing the Archives In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212061038270.20707-100000@siconic.com> References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212061038270.20707-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <3834559133.20021207005442@subatomix.com> On Friday, December 6, 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > All this can be easily implemented in PHP (CGI is so passe). Yeah, but CGI is the only way I know how to generate dynamic pages at the moment. I'd love to create a nice PHP-based, database-backed site with cool features like the most recent posts spilling down the front page in full blog style, but it would take me 2-4 weeks of learning time plus development time. It could be February or March before this was done. WWW development just isn't where I've been for the last 7 years. Maybe that's what I need to do. First, get something that's (a) simple, (b) consistent, and (c) doesn't suck -- put it up there soon (wouldn't take long), and then start working on something better and more time-consuming. I guess I could always Learn ASP.NET in 24 Hours! Just kidding... -- Jeffrey Sharp From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Sat Dec 7 01:26:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: new acquisition: an 11/73 running RSX-11 v4.6 and a question on cihper tapes & CDC SMD disks/controllers Message-ID: <BAY1-F133AX3cf3ednH0000ae40@hotmail.com> Actually, the 7-whatever number sounds like a CDC part number... if they are FSDs, there will be, somewhere on the label, a model number of PAxxx, if either of you find one of these legends, let me know because I have most of the FSD manuals... Blah on ditching SMD for SCSI, if anything I want MORE SMD disks, though for my Perkin-Elmers, not my DECs... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Dec 7 02:15:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: The ACE is recovering :-) References: <m18KTDn-000IzmC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <001d01c29dc9$249ab060$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Tony Duell wrote: >> The only "interesting" thing is that the current draw is around >> 500mA with everything except one of the RAMs and the CPU fitted. >> With the CPU (a > Can I assume you've not tried replacing that RAM yet? No, I've removed it from the board and re-tested the Ace, but all seems well now. I've got a 2114 in an old Commodore 64. I can justify pilfering parts from it because the PSU brick blew, the keyboard is shot and C= sold about a million of the things anyway (at least 500,000 should still be around, perhaps in people's attics). I'll buy one off Ebay if I feel like it, but Commodore machines don't rank high on my "wants list". I'm tend to aim for British-designed machines, i.e. Sinclair ZX80, ZX81, Acorn BBC series, etc. Anyone here selling a ZX81 or ZX80? They seem to be extremely rare in my neck of the woods (West Yorkshire, UK). BTW, anyone got a pinout for the User Port (the smallest edge connector) on the Jupiter Ace? It's not mentioned in my "Jupiter Ace FORTH Programming" manual. I'm assuming that the FORTH Programming manual was the only manual bundled with the machine because on the first page it carries the usual "TV goes to mains and Ace, PSU goes to mains and Ace" diagram (VERY similar to the ones I've seen in Sinclair manuals). I'm also trying to track down some edge connectors for the bus port on my Sinclair Spectrum +2A, a disc controller and drive for same (unless the controller works with PC-style 3.5" drives) and an edge connector for the Bus port on the Jupiter Ace. Anyone know of a source for any of these items? > I wonder if at > least one of the other RAMs (in the video circuity) has also failed > and is drwaing rather too much current. That probably wouldn't lock > up the bus, so the machine might appear to do something sane with > that fault. Sounds plausible. I'm going to see if I can get the 2114 out of the C64 and then try it in the Ace (in a socket). That should give me some idea as to the state of the rest of the circuitry. I don't fancy removing ICs willy-nilly just to see if they're drawing excessive current. I consider that to be worse than shotgunning. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From rhudson at cnonline.net Sat Dec 7 02:41:00 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Getting C64 disk images Message-ID: <F915A659-09BF-11D7-9F38-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> How do I get disk images for my C64 from the internet? Following equipment available: Apple ibook usb-> serial port usb 3 1/4 diskette drive commodore 64 1541 disk drive Is there a community of people sharing disks? Preferably physical disks, perhaps via post (snailmail)? Company that sells old commodore software? Thanks... ron. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Dec 7 03:03:03 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Getting C64 disk images In-Reply-To: <F915A659-09BF-11D7-9F38-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> from Ron Hudson at "Dec 7, 2 00:43:35 am" Message-ID: <200212070914.BAA28834@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > How do I get disk images for my C64 from the internet? > Following equipment available: > Apple ibook > usb-> serial port > usb 3 1/4 diskette drive > commodore 64 > 1541 disk drive The simplest way is to have a PC running Star Commander with an X1541 type cable, and plug a 1541 disk drive into that. Unfortunately, this doesn't help you much on a Mac, and (as a fellow Mac owner) there's not too many options for this. You could try a serial transfer by connecting the Mac's serial port to the 64's user port using an RS-232 interface and appropriate converters, but the speed would be limited to a max of 2400bps (unless you used some sort of UART or ACIA cartridge) and it may not even work with your serial port device. You could also try saving it to a 3.5" DOS-formatted floppy on the Mac, and use Little Red Reader on the 64 to read the files off, but you'll need a 1581 or FD-2000 to do this and that can be hard to find/pricey. Eventually, since I have to do this often for development work and I got given a cheap Toshiba 486 laptop, I turned it into the disk image station and use Star Commander and an X1541 cable under DOS. Old 486 and early Pentium PCs are so cheap these days you might as well just get one and then it takes care of the whole problem. To get files from the Mac to the 64, I save them to a DOS-formatted floppy and sneaker-net them to the laptop, which then saves them to the 1541 disk. Currently there is no way to use an X1541 cable on a Mac, even with a parallel port adapter. > Company that sells old commodore software? Try http://www.centsible.com/ and http://www.vintagecomputer.com/ -- I've done business with Vintage Computer personally, btw, and they're very reputable. I have also heard good things about Centsible. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- FORTUNE: Make your own advancement opportunity. Blackmail your boss. ------- From vaxman at earthlink.net Sat Dec 7 04:16:01 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:24 2005 Subject: Driving a 7805 or how else to get +5VDC reg (was Re: My first good find!!!) In-Reply-To: <20021206204443.13459.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0212070314140.54385-100000@oldy.crwolff.com> Hi Ethan, Most modern DC-DC converters are designed with simplicity in mind. It doesn't take a slide rule, or a PDP-8 to figure out component values, they are usually supplied as part of an app-note with the data sheet. If you go to www.digikey.com, you can execute a parametric search for 'DC converter', select a part that has reasonable characteristics (voltage in, current/voltage out), and download the data sheet. At worst you will have to calculate a couple resistors to set the voltage. Good Luck! Clint On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > [ACE PSU] > > ...a 7805 1A linear regulator which needs around > > 8V to 15V to run properly. > > So I was thinking about this recently... I have this 6V battery > pack that is intended to clamp to the back of a ZIP drive, allowing > it to be used away from power, say with a laptop. I've wanted > to use it for a portable source of juice for hobby projects (it > has, among other features, a built-in 110V mains plug and recharger, > making it handy to recharge), but I haven't expected to be able to > feed a 7805 at +6VDC and get +5VDC out the other side reliably. > > How can I take +6VDC of battery power and get +5VDC regulated power > from it? If it matters, the currents involved will be under 1000mA, > but probably over 200mA. > > -ethan > > P.S. - I don't mind the concept of a DC-DC converter, but I'm not > skilled enough to design one, just skilled enough to build it. > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sat Dec 7 06:43:00 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: TI-2532 (was Re: The ACE is recovering :-)) References: <m18KTGN-000IznC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <3DF1EC18.9090408@gifford.co.uk> Tony Duell wrote: > Am I the only person to _always_ check the PSU on dummy load before > connecting the rest of the machine? Possibly! I do take great care with PSUs, though. But I often get machines where the previous owner has already powered it up several times to marvel at the flashing lights :-) So, it's usually make a judgement based in the age and rarity of the machine, and the probablility of a latent failure. I *don't* just plug 'em in and hope for the best. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sat Dec 7 06:50:01 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Driving a 7805 or how else to get +5VDC reg (was Re: My first good find!!!) References: <20021207035337.80149.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3DF1EDBE.7000701@gifford.co.uk> Loboyko Steve wrote: > I'll bet it used a NiCd, which gives ~4.8 volts for > the vast percentage of a charge - which is "kinda" in > tolerance of most +5 logic. I have a Microwriter that used four NiCd cells in series to get "+5V". What's more, it didn't bother with the extra expense of a regulator, it just used the battery. Oh, what a crap design -- now I have four dead NiCds (a funny sized cell, too) and a non-functional Microwriter. Pics: http://www.gifford.co.uk/~coredump/org.htm -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sat Dec 7 08:02:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Settings for MSV11-Q References: <200212070542.VAA22645@blinky.its.caltech.edu> Message-ID: <3DF1FFB8.E76C743B@compsys.to> >John Dundas wrote: > Anyone have the jumper settings for a 4MB MSV11-QC (M7551-CF) memory > board for a PDP-11? I just got one, but don't know how the DIP > switches and jumpers should be set. A PDF of the User Guide would be > even better, but help or pointers with the jumpers/switches would be > great. Jerome Fine replies: In general, there should never be a reason to alter the jumpers. Since 4 MBytes is the maximum allowed for the PDP-11, the hardware would almost always be set to use all of the memory. There is probably a bank of jumpers for the starting address and a second for the ending address. The starting address will probably be empty - for zero. The ending address could be full or empty. I suggest that if you can't find a manual for the settings to just use the board as is. 99.9% of the time, I would expect the setting to reflect use of all of the memory - if that is what you wish - and I can't really understand any other option for 99.9% of the cases. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 7 10:56:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Spamproofing the Archives In-Reply-To: <11333001042.20021207002844@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212070058020.22791-100000@siconic.com> On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > :-) The way I had thunk it, it would need to be both unique and reversable. > The confirm/reveal script would decode it to figure out what email address > to show to the user. Gotta be deterministic on the decode, you see. At least > for the first part, anyway. No good. Someone WILL crack the code eventually and then spam away. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 7 11:00:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Spamproofing the Archives In-Reply-To: <12833314483.20021207003357@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212070058550.22791-100000@siconic.com> On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Friday, December 6, 2002, Steve Jones wrote: > > Why expose the address at all? How about you send the (plain text only) > > note on to the addressee w/o disclosing the address. If the recipient > > wants the sender to know their address, they'll respond to them. > > Well, that *is* a easier way to do it. I had thought of that, but I wasn't > sure if there were enough steps involved. What I don't want is a person > sending spam *though* this interface. How safe do you think this solution is > against that? It's not. I have jack-asses posting spam to my VCF BBS and through my feedback form occasionally. That's why I made the VCF 5.0 BBS moderated (to thwart the retard spammers who are trying to reach all 5 people who use the VCF BBS). Simulation of the above: You are trying to be reached by <bigpenis@chinanet.com.cn> regarding "ENLARGE YOUR PENIS WITH NEW GROWTH FORMULA!!!" It's still spam. The best way to do it is to ensure that a human has to do something to make ANY contact with the e-mail address. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 7 11:03:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Spamproofing the Archives In-Reply-To: <3834559133.20021207005442@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212070103450.22791-100000@siconic.com> On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > Yeah, but CGI is the only way I know how to generate dynamic pages at the > moment. I'd love to create a nice PHP-based, database-backed site with cool > features like the most recent posts spilling down the front page in full > blog style, but it would take me 2-4 weeks of learning time plus development > time. It could be February or March before this was done. WWW development > just isn't where I've been for the last 7 years. Actually, it would take days. PHP is just (almost) Perl but even easier to program in. Jay should already have PHP loaded onto the CC web server. > Maybe that's what I need to do. First, get something that's (a) simple, > (b) consistent, and (c) doesn't suck -- put it up there soon (wouldn't > take long), and then start working on something better and more > time-consuming. It's amazing we haven't been hit by floods of spam yet. > I guess I could always Learn ASP.NET in 24 Hours! Just kidding... I found it quite easy to jump into PHP because the language is basically an amalgamation of C++ and Perl. I can't say the same about ASP or .NET (which I haven't looked at and probably never will). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 7 13:08:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: The ACE is recovering :-) In-Reply-To: <001d01c29dc9$249ab060$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> from "Philip Pemberton" at Dec 7, 2 08:17:53 am Message-ID: <m18Kk5D-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1586 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021207/98779bbf/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 7 13:11:34 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Driving a 7805 or how else to get +5VDC reg (was Re: My first In-Reply-To: <3DF1EDBE.7000701@gifford.co.uk> from "John Honniball" at Dec 7, 2 12:46:54 pm Message-ID: <m18Kk7y-000IzSC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 682 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021207/ee66de6f/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Dec 7 13:15:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Spamproofing the Archives In-Reply-To: <3DF172F0.8000007@rogers.com> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212071112100.1515-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> > > I think it would be easier to just hunt down and vilely murder all > > spammers. On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, Stan Pietkiewicz wrote: > With any luck, all you'd have to is get a few of them and the rest would > disappear off the face of the earth out of fear of the same fate.... ;-}) A few credible ULs would probably do it! A FOAF of a cow-orker heard about one spammer who was cornered by some folks from this mailing list who held him down and crushed his testicles with a PDP. From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Sat Dec 7 13:18:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Computer Garage Sale M868 Dectape Controller In-Reply-To: <1038274273.8476.5.camel@winnt.4mcnabb.net> References: <1038274273.8476.5.camel@winnt.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <1039288392.11728.4.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Jim, The M868 Dectape controller arrived today, and has already surpassed the usability of the other one I have - it doesn't keep the machine from running! Now I can get to the business of getting the TU-56 completely operational. Thanks! -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Dec 7 13:21:04 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Spamproofing the Archives In-Reply-To: <12833314483.20021207003357@subatomix.com> References: <200212062141.gB6Lf7g00572@io.crash.com> <12833314483.20021207003357@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <32809.64.169.63.74.1039288556.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >> Why expose the address at all? How about you send the (plain text >> only) note on to the addressee w/o disclosing the address. If the >> recipient wants the sender to know their address, they'll respond to >> them. > > Well, that *is* a easier way to do it. I had thought of that, but I > wasn't sure if there were enough steps involved. What I don't want is a > person sending spam *though* this interface. How safe do you think this > solution is against that? In practice, a lot of people have had trouble with this. Make damn sure that whatever CGI script you use defends against any characters in the email form being interpreted as any sort of metacharacters. Of course, you have to do this for *any* web forms, but for some reason email forms seem to be especially susceptible, possibly because a lot of CGI scripts don't do enough validation then just dump all the data into a "mail" command. This has vulnerabilities for both command argument processing by the shell, and by strange and wondrous things that happen inside Sendmail. I'm no expert on that, but it's scary enough that I've completely resisted putting such things on web servers I'm responsible for. I'm sure it can be done safely, but I don't have the time or inclination to research exactly what it takes. I think the original hash code idea was perfectly fine. It takes more work to implement than the mail form, but does it take more time to implement than a bulletproof mail form? I don't know. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Dec 7 13:25:01 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: new acquisition: an 11/73 running RSX-11 v4.6 and a question on cihper tapes & CDC SMD disks/controllers In-Reply-To: <v03130309ba16cf576005@[131.215.48.178]> References: <DC377F3E-0944-11D7-84C3-000393853BFC@zeitgeist.com> <v03130309ba16cf576005@[131.215.48.178]> Message-ID: <20021207181913.GE1293@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, Dec 06, 2002 at 02:12:30PM -0800, John A. Dundas III wrote: > I have a Dilog SQ706A, for which I am unable to find docs. I have a SQ706A too. It is quite easy to configure. It has a 10 pin connector like the console connector on a MicroVAX II / III CPU (KA630, KA650, KA655). Connect the console cable from the CPU to the 10 pin connector of the SQ706A, reset / powercycle the machine and you get a menu on the console terminal to configure the SQ706A. I don't know if it works with a PDP-11 / DLV11 console cable / bulthead. > However it does appear to be a SCSI controller emulating MSCP. It is. You can set up SCSI ID => MSCP mapping and CSR in the menu. Unfortunately it does only MSCP not TMSCP. But it does map CDROM drives as MSCP disk. -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Dec 7 13:27:58 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Spamproofing the Archives In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212070058020.22791-100000@siconic.com> References: <11333001042.20021207002844@subatomix.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212070058020.22791-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <32812.64.169.63.74.1039289104.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >> :-) The way I had thunk it, it would need to be both unique and >> reversable. The confirm/reveal script would decode it to figure out >> what email address to show to the user. Gotta be deterministic on the >> decode, you see. At least for the first part, anyway. > > No good. Someone WILL crack the code eventually and then spam away. No, it is trivial to make it so computationally expensive to crack it that spammers won't bother trying. Even using 56-bit DES would suffice. However, the decryption must take place on the server side, not on the client in Javascript, or the key will be available to the attacker. If I understand the original proposal, it was to replace email addresses on the web pages with links of the form http://site/cgi_form?id=encrypted_email_address The user would click the link, and the CGI script on the server would first verify that it thinks the user is a person, not a robot, then decrypt the email address and return the cleartext. Assuming that the encryption is done properly, the weakest point in the system is the test for robots (harvesters). That's the point that spammers would attack, if they could be bothered to try. As long as that test looks like it would take some work to defeat, I doubt that spammers would bother. There's plenty of other low-hanging fruit on the web for them to harvest. They're willing to spend time improving harvesting tools for things that aren't too difficult, or would return a large number of valid email addresses, but this would be difficult for a small return, so they're unlikely to mess with it. From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Dec 7 13:30:56 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Spamproofing the Archives In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212070103450.22791-100000@siconic.com> References: <3834559133.20021207005442@subatomix.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212070103450.22791-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <32815.64.169.63.74.1039289233.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > It's amazing we haven't been hit by floods of spam yet. Yes. By the way, don't count on any of this preventing it anyhow. Even if you guard your email address jealously and don't use it on any unprotected mailing list archives, someone somewhere will post to a mailing list and give your email address in the clear, by way of trying to help out someone else. From classiccmp at crash.com Sat Dec 7 13:34:00 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Spamproofing the Archives Message-ID: <200212071936.gB7JZtg03227@io.crash.com> > The way I had thunk it, it would need to be both unique and > reversable. Nope, don't need to. When you add an email address to the database, calculate the MD5 hash and store that with it. Make sure you've got indices on the table for both the hash and the address. When some user uses the form you get the hash back as an argument, form field, whatever. Look it up in the table and you get the cleartext address. Remember the goal is to never put the sensitive data - in this case the email address - where someone browsing the website can get it. > It's not. I have jack-asses posting spam to my VCF BBS and > through my feedback form occasionally. Good point, Sellam. So make the send/confirmation step include the bit where the sender has to input some value from a graphic. Seems like enough to exclude the scripts, provided you're careful about the filenames of images, etc. Remember, you can have another database table that relates the gibberish name of these graphics to the text the sender is suppose to enter. This is starting to sound like a fun little project... --S. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Dec 7 13:41:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: The ACE is recovering :-) References: <m18Kk5D-000IzIC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <01cd01c29e29$0e25c800$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Tony Duell wrote: >>> Can I assume you've not tried replacing that RAM yet? >> No, I've removed it from the board and re-tested the Ace, but all >> seems well now. > Hmm... Without a full set of RAMs you can't get a sensible video > display, so you can't really know how well the machine is working. I know. I also know it runs a RAM test on bootup... It's a real pain that I'm not going to have the RAMs until Monday at the earliest... Unfortunately Royal Mail aren't open on a Sunday and I can't justify travelling down to York just for ?10 worth of RAMs. And I haven't seen anyone on this list who lives in or around Leeds (West Yorkshire)... >> I've got a 2114 in an old Commodore 64. I can justify pilfering >> parts from it because the PSU brick blew, the keyboard is shot and >> C= sold about a > Sure... Oh, come on. The damn keyboard is missing a key and most of the parts in it are board pulls! The PSU brick blew up and there are at least another thousand of the things lying around in people's garages and attics gathering dust! The VIC is about the only part in the whole machine that *does* work. That and the 2114 colour RAM. >> BTW, anyone got a pinout for the User Port (the smallest edge >> connector) on > IIRC, It's actually a video port -- it carries many of the video > timing signals, etc. I think there was at least one colour board that > connected here (and to the system bus, of course). The design _may_ > have been published in ETI about 20 years ago, but I am not certain. Hmm... Interesting. You got a copy of the article, if it was published in ETI? >> I'm also trying to track down some edge connectors for the bus port >> on my Sinclair Spectrum +2A, a disc controller and drive for same >> (unless the controller works with PC-style 3.5" drives) and an edge >> connector for the Bus port on the Jupiter Ace. Anyone know of a >> source for any of these items? > They're all standard 0.1" pitch AFAIK. You make have to buy longer > connectors and cut them down. That shouldn't be too difficult. I think Farnell still stock edge connectors. > One point, I assume you realise that while the Ace and Sinclair > machines have much the same signals on the bus connector (a plain Z80 > bus, unbuffered), the pinout is totally different. Yup. That point is mentioned in the "Jupiter Ace FORTH Programming" manual. Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Dec 7 14:11:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Fortran for Humans Book? In-Reply-To: <NABBLBMGIPBIOFEOPLODEECNJOAA.patrick@evocative.com> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212071210010.1515-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> > Did anyone here learn Fortran from, or just read, any book called "Fortran > for Humans" or "Fortran 77 for Humans"? > > I just found out: The CS prof I've been spending so much time with for the > last two years, Rex Page, was the principal author of this book. If anyone > has memories of it (good or bad :-), I bet he would get a kick out of > hearing about it at our next meeting. Almost 20 years ago, I taught Fortran using that book. It was before I had tenure, so the textbook choice was not my decision. We were using IBM's Microsoft Fortran. It was the first time that I had used any compiler whose output was SLOWER than an interpreter. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Dec 7 14:15:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Fortran for Humans Book? In-Reply-To: <002a01c29d51$52742390$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212071213110.1515-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, J.C.Wren wrote: > I think I still have 'McCracken on FORTRAN'. That was the "standard" reference. Recently one of my colleagues was having difficulty learning Spanish, so I gave her a copy of McCracken in spanish. One of the best tutorials to accompany McCracken was by Decima Anderson. From classiccmp at crash.com Sat Dec 7 14:22:01 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Spamproofing the Archives Message-ID: <200212072023.gB7KNWg03336@io.crash.com> > That's the point that spammers would attack, if they could be > bothered to try. I'm sortof wondering what archive sites like the Wayback Machine are doing to prevent address harvesting, if anything. Seems like exactly the sort of thing that would be worth some effort prying open... > Make damn sure that whatever CGI script you use defends against > any characters in the email form being interpreted as any sort > of metacharacters. Can't stress this point enough. Limiting length is good too, look to RFCs for figures. I'd also submit any message via a TCP connection rather than invoking anything from the script, e.g. `sendmail -bs`. I can give you a simple example using Perl if you need it. Hmm, do I have any links/guides for safe web form handling... ? --S. From dundas at its.caltech.edu Sat Dec 7 14:33:00 2002 From: dundas at its.caltech.edu (John Dundas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Settings for MSV11-Q Message-ID: <200212072035.MAA08323@blinky.its.caltech.edu> >>John Dundas wrote: > >> Anyone have the jumper settings for a 4MB MSV11-QC (M7551-CF) memory >> board for a PDP-11? I just got one, but don't know how the DIP >> switches and jumpers should be set. A PDF of the User Guide would be >> even better, but help or pointers with the jumpers/switches would be >> great. > >Jerome Fine replies: > >In general, there should never be a reason to alter the >jumpers. Since 4 MBytes is the maximum allowed for >the PDP-11, the hardware would almost always be set >to use all of the memory. There is probably a bank of >jumpers for the starting address and a second for the >ending address. The starting address will probably be >empty - for zero. The ending address could be full or >empty. I suggest that if you can't find a manual for the >settings to just use the board as is. 99.9% of the time, >I would expect the setting to reflect use of all of the >memory - if that is what you wish - and I can't really >understand any other option for 99.9% of the cases. Based on the MicroNotes, I believe you are correct that the switches are used to control the starting and ending addresses. The board, as received, is set to all zero for both. The MicroNote _seems_ to indicate that the ending address should be set to all 1s. However I'm wondering if I really need to set the ending address to 4MB - 8KB (for the I/O page)? Also, there are quite a few jumpers on the board. They may or may not be set appropriately. The MicroNote indicates the function of a few of them, but not nearly all. For example, permit "write wrong parity", etc. If anyone has a copy or scan of the original manual, I'd very much appreciate it. Thanks, John From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Dec 7 14:39:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Spamproofing the Archives In-Reply-To: <200212071936.gB7JZtg03227@io.crash.com> References: <200212071936.gB7JZtg03227@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <33001.64.169.63.74.1039293667.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >> The way I had thunk it, it would need to be both unique and >> reversable. > > Nope, don't need to. When you add an email address to the database, > calculate the MD5 hash and store that with it. Make sure you've got > indices on the table for both the hash and the address. When some > user uses the form you get the hash back as an argument, form field, > whatever. Look it up in the table and you get the cleartext address. I think the point of his original proposal was to be able to implement this without a database, just a CGI script. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Dec 7 14:41:57 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Fortran for Humans Book? In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212071213110.1515-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> References: <002a01c29d51$52742390$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021207154618.57f78bd0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> >On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, J.C.Wren wrote: >> I think I still have 'McCracken on FORTRAN'. I have his 'A Simplified Guide to Fortran Programming" and 'A Simplified Guide to Structured Cobol Programming" and his 'A Guide to Intellec Microcomputer Developement Systems'. Joe From jss at subatomix.com Sat Dec 7 16:45:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Spamproofing the Archives In-Reply-To: <33001.64.169.63.74.1039293667.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <200212071936.gB7JZtg03227@io.crash.com> <33001.64.169.63.74.1039293667.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <191704704.20021207164707@subatomix.com> On Saturday, December 7, 2002, Eric Smith wrote: >>> The way I had thunk it, it would need to be both unique and >>> reversable. >> >> Nope, don't need to. When you add an email address to the database, >> calculate the MD5 hash and store that with it. Make sure you've got >> indices on the table for both the hash and the address. When some >> user uses the form you get the hash back as an argument, form field, >> whatever. Look it up in the table and you get the cleartext address. > > I think the point of his original proposal was to be able to implement > this without a database, just a CGI script. Right. No database. The encryption need not be complex. A simple rotation or XOR scheme would be sufficient. The idea is that it is not worth it to the spammer to figure out the scheme used at this one little site, and it's something that general-purpose harvesting heuristics aren't likely to notice. Due to Sellam's and Eric's comments, my opinion has swung back in favor of the 2-step process. I do have to resist a "type in the what this picture says" human-detection step, though. As I said earlier, this has to be doable in a text mode browser. So I'll probably use something like "type in the sum of 67834 and 347", where the numbers vary with each email address. -- Jeffrey Sharp From nrg at sun.com Sat Dec 7 17:21:05 2002 From: nrg at sun.com (freddy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Solaris 2.4 In-Reply-To: <20021204213902.55BCC9B15@nemesis.dls.net> References: <20021204213902.55BCC9B15@nemesis.dls.net> Message-ID: <20021205080922.GA20182@tao.slovakia.sun.com> fire@dls.net (fire@dls.net) wrote : > I have old Sparc Sun machine which I would like to run on Solaris 2.4, not newer. I have Solaris 8 from a few years ago when I paid Sun $75 for CDs but I do not want to run this version or the 2.5 I have from another machine. Does anyone have Solaris 2.4 CDs that they could sell or copy for me? Please note that I am not looking to violate copyright law but I do need to get 2.4 and not some later or earlier version of Solaris. Alternatively, does anyone know anyplace where I could obtain Solaris 2.4? (I have watched Ebay for 6 months without seeing a copy of Solaris 2.4 for sale) If this is what you're looking for: /vol/dev/dsk/c0t2d0/sol_2_4_hw1194_sparc/s0 15134 13436 186 99% /cdrom/sol_2_4_hw1194_sparc/s0 ... then I do have the cd, I'll grab a copy of it and put for you on FTP if it's okay for you. :) Agreed? Cheers, -- freddy From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Dec 7 17:24:10 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: My first good find!!! In-Reply-To: <000b01c29be6$ed574ca0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEEEBGCFAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Philip Pemberton > Sent: 04 December 2002 22:46 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: My first good find!!! > > I'm currently in a very good mood because I've found a Jupiter Ace in > near-mint condition, complete with 16k RAMPack, intro tape and a > copy of the book "Jupiter Ace FORTH Programming" by Steven Vickers. All this, > including the polystyrene box for the rampack (and rampack instructions) cost me the > rather feeble sum of two British pounds. Nice one! I wonder if that book is online somewhere since it's the only thing I haven't got..... > Now, there is a catch. The machine didn't come with a power > supply. So, > can someone with an Ace, working PSU and a multimeter please tell me what > the polarity and voltage of the PSU's output is? I'm hesitant to power up > the Ace in case I end up fouling up the settings, with fairly predictable > results. Tony's not far wrong with his guess (as usual :). The PSU I have in my sweaty mitts here says 9V 800ma and I've tested centre (tip) positive. I was going to say you could get away with a ZX81 PSU but they're 700ma and the ZX80 is 600ma. Oh, the voltage I got was ~14V so it requires a load to bring it down to 9V. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From kees.stravers at iae.nl Sat Dec 7 17:27:07 2002 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (Kees Stravers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Need information on TRSDOS 1.3 internals Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20021205103743.0136e700@pop.iae.nl> At 11:25 4-12-2002 -0800, you wrote: >I'm trying to pull some old word processor and perhaps spreadsheet files >off some TRSDOS disks using a PC. I already found a utility called >READDISK that reads TRS-80 disks on a PC and it worked great. Now I need >to extract the files from the image. Wouldn't it be easier to install a trs-80 emulator, mount the readdisk image in it, and print the files to a virtual printer port that you capture to a pc file? Kees. From Gerald_Raine at chiron.com Sat Dec 7 17:30:04 2002 From: Gerald_Raine at chiron.com (Raine, Gerald) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Tennecomp Systems TP-000020B - What is it? Message-ID: <88E557588EADD611B6DF00508BEE08FF0D5800@seattle-nt-25.pathogenesis.com> It appears to be the interface for the Tennecomp tape backup system... Cheers... Gerald Raine IBM Global Services Tel: (206) 674-6688 Fax: (206) 272-8501 Pager: (206) 918-5850 Cellular Phone: (206) 854-7537 From nrg at sun.com Sat Dec 7 17:33:02 2002 From: nrg at sun.com (freddy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: OpenVMS VAX hobbysit CD In-Reply-To: <200212051659.gB5GxqIm025794@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <4f.27cbffa6.2b20d84f@aol.com> <200212051659.gB5GxqIm025794@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20021205174820.GA20535@tao.slovakia.sun.com> Eric Dittman (dittman@dittman.net) wrote : > > Does anyone have one or know an FTP site? > > If one can get real DEC VMS CD's will the hobbyist license PAKs work or do > > you need the hobbyist CD? > > You can use DEC/Compaq/HP CDs with the Hobbyist licenses. can anyone make these for me to download? :( cheers, -- freddy From thilo.schmidt at unix-ag.uni-siegen.de Sat Dec 7 17:37:00 2002 From: thilo.schmidt at unix-ag.uni-siegen.de (Thilo Schmidt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: YARC Systems transputer board In-Reply-To: <18K34Y-1Dus9AC@fmrl01.sul.t-online.com> Message-ID: <XFMail.20021206003144.thilo.schmidt@unix-ag.org> Hi Bernd, On 05-Dec-2002 Bernd Kopriva wrote: > Today i've added a YARC Systems transputer board to my little IBM-AT > coprocessor card collection :-) Ah, I saw this board on Ebay... :-) > Unfortunately, there was no documentation and software included ... > ... and YARC Systems seems to be out of business for at least 2 years ... This is a common problem with transputer based hardware... > Does anyone have documentation/software for that little beauty ? No, but most PC-Transputer-Boards where compatible to the Inmos B004 interface. On Ram's Transputer Homepage you should find a lot of software for this interface (http://www.classiccmp.org/transputer) I'm writing a Linux based development environment for transputers. Currently only the B004 driver and the assembler are operational. If you find any useful information regarding the interface of your board I would be very interested... bye Thilo From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Dec 7 17:39:58 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Solaris 2.4 In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20021204215113.00d7fa24@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <36B207EA-08AA-11D7-8485-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Wednesday, December 4, 2002, at 09:51 PM, Carlos Murillo wrote: > The way I remember this, the first release that bore the "Solaris" > name when released was 2.5 . Before it was called SunOS, of which > the last release was 4.1.4 if I remember correctly. After Solaris 2.5, > the previous SunOS 4.x releases were renamed "Solaris 2.4". I think > that the list of releases that I played with at one point or another > is as > follows: > > SunOS 4.1.1 Rev B > SunOS 4.1.4, aka Solaris 2.4 (or was it 4.1.3?) > Solaris 2.5 > Solaris 2.6 > Solaris 2.7 > Solaris 8 Nono, definitely not. SunOS 4.x is also known as Solaris 1.x. Solaris 1.1.2 is SunOS 4.1.4. All Solaris 2.x releases are the SysV-based stuff that current Solaris descends from. Solaris 2.3 was released (and rammed down our throats) by Sun, although it was so slow and unstable that it didn't enjoy widespread acceptance. Thank heaven. I don't know if 2.0, 2.1, or 2.2 ever saw the light of day, but I never saw them. My company had test machines running 2.3 (and subsequent releases) from when that version was released. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "Why would a brothel need St. Petersburg, FL a streaming media server?" -Kevin From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Dec 7 17:42:56 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Solaris 2.4 In-Reply-To: <20021205033329.91309.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <932F16CF-08AA-11D7-8485-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Wednesday, December 4, 2002, at 10:33 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote: > After Solaris had been around for a while, Sun retroactively named > SunOS to a Solaris 1 number. I don't recall the exact mapping, but > IIRC, Solaris 1.1.1 was also known as SunOS 4.1.3_u1, nearly the > last SunOS there was. I _think_ 4.1.4 was called Solaris 1.1.2, but > I am digging deep into memory. This is correct...SunOS 4.1.4 is Solaris 1.1.2. There was also a SunOS 4.1.4_U1 release, but I don't recall if it had a separate Solaris release number. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "Why would a brothel need St. Petersburg, FL a streaming media server?" -Kevin From trestivo at concentric.net Sat Dec 7 17:45:55 2002 From: trestivo at concentric.net (Thom Restivo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: PDP11 chips on ebay Message-ID: <LOBBLGPOLKHLIKMNDENPEEEFCPAA.trestivo@concentric.net> Eric, I saw your post about the chips on ebay, and your right... the seller (me) didn't know you could get a working cpu board for $25. The only prices I could find on these chips online were from retailers and they listed them much higher. So I took a chance at $55. I value your opinion and that of others on the forum. Thank you for setting me straight. Do you know of a source that might help me with pricing? I have thousands of Dec and Vax boards and lots of other stuff that I would like to sell, but fair pricing is tough. I have been told by other buyers that my prices for items sold to them has been great. For instance, I sold a complete working Decmate III on ebay for $49.00, a vr201 for $25, DSD440 dual floppy drives at $185, complete working pdp8/e with 32k memory, rk05 drive, 4 disk packs, monitor and keyboard for $800., 10 pack of new 8" floppies for $15, a tested power supply for a vax 4000 for $25... I try to find as many sources for prices online as I can then set my asking price below the lowest price I can find. I will take back anything I sell that dosen't work and I do my best to test any item before it goes out the door. Eric, please don't think I'm slamming your post! I am apologizing to you and those on the forum for missing the boat on pricing these chips. My intentions are honorable and I welcome all suggestions from other subscribers. All are welcome to visit our warehouse in Florida and make offers on anything they see. I have had visits from other cctalk members and they very pleased with their purchases. You can see a partial list of what we've inventoried so far at www.tarinc.com Thank you all for taking the time to read this. Personal emails can be sent to trestivo@tarinc.com Sincerely, thom From bill at timeguy.com Sat Dec 7 17:49:01 2002 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Driving a 7805 or how else to get +5VDC reg (was Re: My first good find!!!) In-Reply-To: <20021206204443.13459.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021206150304.R90357-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Try a PowerTrends PT6322N DC->DC converter; they're small, cheap, and work well. On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > [ACE PSU] > > ...a 7805 1A linear regulator which needs around > > 8V to 15V to run properly. > > So I was thinking about this recently... I have this 6V battery > pack that is intended to clamp to the back of a ZIP drive, allowing > it to be used away from power, say with a laptop. I've wanted > to use it for a portable source of juice for hobby projects (it > has, among other features, a built-in 110V mains plug and recharger, > making it handy to recharge), but I haven't expected to be able to > feed a 7805 at +6VDC and get +5VDC out the other side reliably. > > How can I take +6VDC of battery power and get +5VDC regulated power > from it? If it matters, the currents involved will be under 1000mA, > but probably over 200mA. > > -ethan > > P.S. - I don't mind the concept of a DC-DC converter, but I'm not > skilled enough to design one, just skilled enough to build it. > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Dec 7 17:53:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: OpenVMS VAX hobbysit CD Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C71D@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> working it.... :) > -----Original Message----- > From: freddy [mailto:nrg@sun.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 6:48 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: OpenVMS VAX hobbysit CD > > > Eric Dittman (dittman@dittman.net) wrote : > > > > Does anyone have one or know an FTP site? > > > If one can get real DEC VMS CD's will the hobbyist > license PAKs work or do > > > you need the hobbyist CD? > > > > You can use DEC/Compaq/HP CDs with the Hobbyist licenses. > > can anyone make these for me to download? :( > > cheers, > -- > freddy > From aek at spies.com Sat Dec 7 17:56:00 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: My awesome find!!! Message-ID: <200212062216.gB6MGFxa004557@spies.com> > Hey all, > Yesterday I obtained a Documation card reader, 600cpm, for the total cost > of... *drumroll* $20! Anyone have docs? http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/hp/cardReader/02892-90001_m600maint.pdf I'll get the scan up of the M-1000 at some point as well. From aek at spies.com Sat Dec 7 17:58:57 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: wire wrap strippers Message-ID: <200212070240.gB72eK0M002774@spies.com> The only strippers I've ever found that worked well on wire wrap were those ones that looked like small pliers and had white plastic shells that would guide the wire onto stripper blades. I'm not sure who sells these as they were units I picked up at a surplus store. ----- Clauss NO-NIK they show up on eBay from time to time, sometimes listed as fibre optic strippers. From evan947 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 7 18:01:56 2002 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: First-time poster here... Message-ID: <20021207023942.28460.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Hello all, I recently acquired a Panasonic HHC (the "1400", aka 4K version). However, it didn't include the user manual. Does anyone have a scanned manual, or can anyone photocopy and mail one to me? I'll pay the postage, of course. -- Evan Koblentz, Boston, Mass. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From shirin at shaw.ca Sat Dec 7 18:04:54 2002 From: shirin at shaw.ca (shirin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: AN/ UYK-20X(V) Message-ID: <LPBBLBJLIBEFCMDGJEBHGEMEDFAA.shirin@shaw.ca> I have 9 brand new AN/ UYK-20X(V) in stock. Any one interested? Original package plus all accessories. Regards, Shirin Tel: 604- 5522598 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021207/71ea00d0/attachment.html From mgortych at ntplx.com Sat Dec 7 18:07:53 2002 From: mgortych at ntplx.com (Mike Gortych) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: HP2000 Message-ID: <000801c29e3f$662ba5e0$0314a8c0@forrestal> Jay....do you have your HP2000 system up and running? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021207/29e2431b/attachment.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 7 18:11:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: The ACE is recovering :-) In-Reply-To: <01cd01c29e29$0e25c800$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> from "Philip Pemberton" at Dec 7, 2 07:44:27 pm Message-ID: <m18KoOF-000IzbC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1776 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021207/d49cc45d/attachment.ksh From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Dec 7 18:14:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: The Secret Weapons of Commodore 11th edition Message-ID: <200212072344.PAA28510@stockholm.ptloma.edu> After far too long, the long-overdue 11th edition of the Secret Weapons of Commodore, cataloguing rare, unusual and unreleased Commodore hardware, has been released. http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/ckb/secret/ Here are the highlights: New entries: the VIC-40 (thanks Mike Stein), the SX-500 (thanks Dale Luck), TOI and the Colour PET (now separate entries, thanks Mike Stein), the TT13 (thanks Riccardo Rubini), the Canadian Plus/4, the Swedish PET 3032 (thanks Peter Karlsson), the German C64 (thanks Markus Mehring), new pictures: complete views of Dave Haynie's NTSC 116 prototype (thanks Ray Castaldo), enhanced portrait and port views of the 128DLs (thanks Bo Zimmerman), views of the 1565 and mainboard (thanks Bo), the 3000H light rifle (thanks Lee Rayner), the Colour PET prototype (thanks Bo), the Gold VIC (maybe?) (thanks Bo), the Commodore 65 burn-in board and widget board (thanks Moise Sunda), the Commodore thermostat in the flesh! (thanks Joe Torre), comparison 116 keyboard shots (thanks Ray), better C65 mainboard/ports/portrait photographs (thanks Moise), C65 PSU images (thanks Moise *again*), higher resolution pictures of the CHESSmate, a proper DX-64 portrait, a better 3008 portrait (thanks Tiziano), a colour view of the HHC-4 (Bo) and the VIC-TV (Bo encore), a real SFS 481 (thanks Antonio Pagliaro), SX-100 faceplate (thanks Bo), views of the SX-500, the TT13 (thanks Riccardo); updates: Fred Bowen's big ideas for the 65, the 600s seem to be the same as the B500s, the HHC-4 might be more similar to the Panasonic HHC than previously thought, the Lorraine pictures are actually of an early developer prototype (thanks Dale Luck), CCR has a scale too (thanks Mike Shartiag), more SFX history (thanks Richard Atkinson), TOI is not the same as the Colour PET (thanks Mike Stein), the 6562/3 was likely not in TOI (thanks Mike Stein), the 65 widget and burn-in boards (thanks Moise), the 7601 is the CPU in the TVG series, plus some great notes on its internal architecture (thanks Lee Rayner), the SX was the first colour portable computer, additional history on the 116 and 364 (thanks Dave Haynie), the SX TV tuner package?, more Magic Voice history and architecture explanation, the 116 was designed by Commodore Japan (thanks Dave Haynie), custodial link repair, various smaller changes. In addition, on the main page, the modification date of all pages is now automatically tracked to make finding new changes and entries easier. Enjoy. http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/ckb/secret/ -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I shouldn't have to explain this to someone old enough to type. - S. Gardner From tim at tim-mann.org Sat Dec 7 18:46:15 2002 From: tim at tim-mann.org (Tim Mann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Need information on TRSDOS 1.3 internals In-Reply-To: <20021207231205.73424.14688.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20021207231205.73424.14688.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20021207164837.674f5c31.tim@tim-mann.org> > > I think you want _TRS-80 Disk and Other Mysteries_. That was one of > > the Mysteries books I didn't have, but ISTR that Al turned up a copy > > recently. On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, Tim Mann wrote: > No, that only covers Model I TRSDOS 2.x and NEWDOS 2.1. Sellam asked > about TRSDOS 1.3, which I have to assume means Model III TRSDOS. Fred Cisin wrote: > True. > But before we deal with the parameters (MOSTLY minor) that differ, he > needs a tutorial on how the directory structure works for that family > of operating systems. Pennington's book provides a good one, unless > and until one of us has an opportunity to sit down with him and go > through the details. Granted, Pennington's book is a good place to start, even though it doesn't cover the differences in Model III TRSDOS. It doesn't help Sellam much, though, if he doesn't have a copy. In my other reply, I gave a pointer to the on-line Programmer's Guide to TRSDOS/LS-DOS Version 6. Here it is again: http://www.tim-mann.org/trs80/doc/prgguide.pdf Although the Guide is denser and not nearly as fun to read as Pennington's book, it contains the same information (and more) and has the advantage of already being on-line. It also has the same drawback, namely that it doesn't cover the differences in Model III TRSDOS. > For example, for READING files, he doesn't need to know all of the > details of the H.I.T., but I'm sure that he would appreciate learning > it ANYWAY, and he will need it sometime in the future when he wants > to WRITE files. Does Model III TRSDOS compute the HIT codes the same way as the other TRSDOS-like systems? I don't recall. Since Radio Shack randomly changed so many other things (sectors starting at 1 instead of 0, not having directory entries for the system files, swapping the DAMs, changing directory entries from 32 to 48 bytes, various smaller details), it wouldn't be surprising. -- Tim Mann tim@tim-mann.org http://www.tim-mann.org/ From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Dec 7 19:13:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: PDP11 chips on ebay In-Reply-To: <LOBBLGPOLKHLIKMNDENPEEEFCPAA.trestivo@concentric.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212072014200.717-100000@ibm-ps850.purdueriots.com> On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, Thom Restivo wrote: > Eric, I saw your post about the chips on ebay, and your right... the seller > (me) didn't know you could get a working cpu board for $25. The only prices > I could find on these chips online were from retailers and they listed them > much higher. So I took a chance at $55. I value your opinion and that of > others on the forum. Thank you for setting me straight. Do you know of a > source that might help me with pricing? About the best method I've found is setting the selling price at $1 (or maybe $10 or $20 for large/valuable items), and maybe set a B-I-N price for what I'd like to be able to get for it. If there's interest in the item, bidders will generally bid it up to it's 'eBay value'. If there's anything there that looks interesting (like another PDP-8), of course I'd be willing to tell you a reasonable price you could sell it to me for ;-). Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From spc at conman.org Sat Dec 7 19:17:01 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Spamproofing the Archives In-Reply-To: <191704704.20021207164707@subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey Sharp" at Dec 07, 2002 04:47:07 PM Message-ID: <200212080119.UAA22103@conman.org> Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > Right. No database. > > The encryption need not be complex. A simple rotation or XOR scheme would be > sufficient. The idea is that it is not worth it to the spammer to figure out > the scheme used at this one little site, and it's something that > general-purpose harvesting heuristics aren't likely to notice. Any reason for no database? It doesn't have to be a SQL based one---if you are using Unix you probably have either the Berkeley DB or the GNU DB library which is good for simple key/value pairs [1] and doesn't require setting up a connection to a real database server. Make the key the MD5 hash and really, that's all you need. When a message comes in to be archived, you just MD5 the sender's address, look it up in the db file and if not there, add the record. Trying to encrypt the email address is doable, but if you do a simple method like rotation or XOR it *will* be cracked. All a potential spammer has to do is subscribe to the list and post a message. Once it's archived he can then pick up his encrypted email address and reverse engineer the scheme. *Will* a spammer do such a thing? Probably not, but there is that possibility and it's fairly easy to crack simple encryption schemes when you know the plain text. Using DES (or 3DES or any other block-encryption scheme) is much better but that relies on the key being safe (a fair conclusion) but the key is *still* recoverable since the plain text is (or could be) known, but cracking DES this way may be more expensive than a spammer is willing to spend, so this may be a viable method as well. Eric Smith has been known to write: > > In practice, a lot of people have had trouble with this. > > Make damn sure that whatever CGI script you use defends against any > characters in the email form being interpreted as any sort of > metacharacters. Of course, you have to do this for *any* web forms, > but for some reason email forms seem to be especially susceptible, > possibly because a lot of CGI scripts don't do enough validation then > just dump all the data into a "mail" command. This has vulnerabilities > for both command argument processing by the shell, and by strange and > wondrous things that happen inside Sendmail. I've done similar things and haven't had a problem, one I attribute to is using C for all my CGI needs (odd, but true). But I've never *embeded* the email address to send to as a hidden field in the webpage---it's either stored in the program, or in a file the webserver can't see but the CGI program can. Validating email address is a bit more difficult but the heuristics I've used have been good enough---check to see that the TLD (the last part of the address) is valid (either .com, .org, .edu, etc., or a valid country code) and that there are at least two (three for country code based domains) segments to the domain portion of the address, and that there's at least one @ sign and no other oddities in the user portion (like a UUCP style address in an attempt to relay). That alone will probably save you (or rather, your mail server) quite a bit of work. Eric Smith still: > > If I understand the original proposal, it was to replace email addresses > on the web pages with links of the form > http://site/cgi_form?id=encrypted_email_address > > The user would click the link, and the CGI script on the server would > first verify that it thinks the user is a person, not a robot, then > decrypt the email address and return the cleartext. I thought the idea was to have a link on the webpage: To: Classic Computers Mailing List From: <a href="/cgi/reply.cgi?id=user.id&subject=Stuff+about+the+PCjr">Sean Conner</a> Subject: Stuff about the PCjr The user would hit the link. The program would then display a form that the user would fill out: <p>This will send a message to the user indicating that you wish to talk to them. Fill in your email address and an email will be sent to the person indicating you want to talk to them. They will then respond to you.</p> <p>This is to keep spammers from collecting their email address from this website. Sorry for the inconvienence.</p> <form method="post" action="/cgi/reply.cgi"> <input type="hidden" name="id" value="user.id"> <input type="hidden" name="subject" value="Stuff about the PCjr"> Your Email address: <input type="text name="from"> <submit value="Send Notification"> </form> Then the program will collect the three fields and send an email to the person inquestion, setting the from line from the form (so I, in this example, can just hit reply), the subject line from the email archive to me (my email address either decrypted from the user.id or looked up if stored somewhere) with a simple message like: To: Sean Conner <myemailaddress@example.org> From: Fred Smith <fred@example.net> Subject: [CC Archive] Stuff about the PCjr Some user with the address fred@example.net wants to talk to you about "Stuff about the PCjr". Reply to this message to start talking to this person. Steve Jones then pontificated: > > I'd also submit any message via a TCP connection rather than > invoking anything from the script, e.g. `sendmail -bs`. I can > give you a simple example using Perl if you need it. I actually do the following: sprintf(cmd,SENDMAIL " -f%s %s",email,mailto); fp = popen(cmd,"w"); if (fp == NULL) { sorry1(3); } fprintf( fp, "From: %s\n" "To: %s\n" "Subject: %s\n" "\n", email, mailto, subject ); fprinf(fp,message); pclose(fp); And my email sending CGI is trusted by sendmail to use the "-f" flag (sorry for the C---I do all my CGI work in C). -spc (Done more than my fair share of CGI programming ... ) [1] I use it to store email addresses for people who want email notification when I update my blog for instance. From tosteve at yahoo.com Sat Dec 7 19:45:00 2002 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:25 2005 Subject: Can you fix a C-64, or know someone who can? Message-ID: <20021208014728.68121.qmail@web40912.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, Someone contacted me wanting his Commodore 64 fixed. Can anyone recommend a person, place or thing? I don't know where he lives... Thanks! Steve. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sat Dec 7 20:25:00 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: Can you fix a C-64, or know someone who can? In-Reply-To: <20021208014728.68121.qmail@web40912.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <80AD1D7D-0A54-11D7-9179-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> What's wrong with it? If it doesn't do anything at all, it's most likely the power supply, they overheat and burn out easily. Fortunately, these aren't that hard to construct/find replacements for. Is it a disk drive related issue? Those 1541 drives go out of alignment if you look at them funny. I've also heard of the video chips failing, although I have never seen it happen. Fortunately, there were millions of C64's sold, so they turn up very frequently. If it's a problem with the computer itself, it may be simpler to get another one off ebay, especially if you don't have spare parts or good experience fixing something like this. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 08:47 PM, steve wrote: > Hi, > > Someone contacted me wanting his Commodore 64 fixed. > > Can anyone recommend a person, place or thing? > > I don't know where he lives... > > Thanks! > Steve. > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Dec 7 20:57:00 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: Can you fix a C-64, or know someone who can? In-Reply-To: <80AD1D7D-0A54-11D7-9179-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> References: <20021208014728.68121.qmail@web40912.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021208025927.XKFD3983.tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > What's wrong with it? If it doesn't do anything at all, it's most > likely the power supply, they overheat and burn out easily. > Fortunately, these aren't that hard to construct/find replacements for. > Is it a disk drive related issue? Those 1541 drives go out of alignment > if you look at them funny. I've also heard of the video chips failing, > although I have never seen it happen. Fortunately, there were millions > of C64's sold, so they turn up very frequently. If it's a problem with > the computer itself, it may be simpler to get another one off ebay, > especially if you don't have spare parts or good experience fixing > something like this. CIA (6522) and RAM. In mid 1990's fixed a C64 of bad ram. Yeah, power supply bricks were weak link. Cheers, Wizard > Ian Primus > ian_primus@yahoo.com > Thanks! > > Steve. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Dec 7 21:04:00 2002 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: Anyone familiar with this one? Message-ID: <20021207190139.R99607-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Finally (and I mean it, been trying to get to this one for over a year) dug into an H-88 (H-89? WTD?) that had seen better days (but had this real nice engraved metal name plate reading "HAL") <G>, and where one might expect to find the cassette interface board, I instead found a board with an AY-3-8910 sound generator and MSM5832NS clock chip along with some other bits. Kinda neat. Etched on the board is the legend: Albrektson Sound/Clock H-89 Now, while these chips are familiar enough... Has anyone else run across this board and/or have any software for it? Be curious to see what kind of fun can be had after I get some signs of life out of the machine again. THanks; -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 7 22:10:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: Need information on TRSDOS 1.3 internals In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20021205103743.0136e700@pop.iae.nl> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212071211330.24204-100000@siconic.com> On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Kees Stravers wrote: > Wouldn't it be easier to install a trs-80 emulator, mount the readdisk > image in it, and print the files to a virtual printer port that you > capture to a pc file? No, because then I'd have to type it all back in (or OCR it). It would be much easier to transmit digital bits from one place to another. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Sat Dec 7 22:14:00 2002 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: MPF-1 Manuals Message-ID: <F97DF7WCI5TrcDd4ism0000783a@hotmail.com> Hello all, I just changed jobs, and the new place has a *TOTAL* lockdown on web browsing, even for the engineers, so I have not been keeping track of the list. I was catching up tonight from home, and saw Adrian's note about me and the MPF-1. I indeed have one, with manuals, and would be happy to make copies for whoever needs them. Please email me off-list, and we can set it up. One small caveat: I have a metric crapload of things going on, so it may be a few *weeks* before I can get to it. If you can wait, I can make copies... :-) Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From sloboyko at yahoo.com Sat Dec 7 22:23:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: MPF-1 Manuals In-Reply-To: <F97DF7WCI5TrcDd4ism0000783a@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <20021208042509.24413.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> Times are tough; three years ago I would have told them where to go with that policy, and what they could do with it when they got there. But, gotta eat. BTW thanks again! --- Rich Beaudry <r_beaudry@hotmail.com> wrote: > I just changed jobs, and the new place has a *TOTAL* > lockdown on web > browsing, even for the engineers, so I have not been __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 7 22:50:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: Spamproofing the Archives In-Reply-To: <200212080119.UAA22103@conman.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212071249100.24274-100000@siconic.com> On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > Trying to encrypt the email address is doable, but if you do a simple > method like rotation or XOR it *will* be cracked. All a potential spammer > has to do is subscribe to the list and post a message. Once it's archived > he can then pick up his encrypted email address and reverse engineer the > scheme. *Will* a spammer do such a thing? Probably not, but there is that > possibility and it's fairly easy to crack simple encryption schemes when you > know the plain text. Spammers were using the stale and rarely visited VCF BBS to post spam messages (dozens actually). I do not put ANYTHING past spammers any more. They would probably put their own mother's e-mail address in their spam databases if it meant an extra penny. I still think it's easier to track down all spammers and rip their ass hairs out one at a time and stuff them up their nostrils. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 7 22:54:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: Can you fix a C-64, or know someone who can? In-Reply-To: <20021208014728.68121.qmail@web40912.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212071252290.24274-100000@siconic.com> On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, steve wrote: > Someone contacted me wanting his Commodore 64 fixed. > > Can anyone recommend a person, place or thing? > > I don't know where he lives... Commodore 64 Repair Made Easy 1. Pick up broken C64 2. Walk to your parts bin 3. Place C64 in parts bin 4. Go to local thrift store or log on to eBay 5. Search for C64 6. Buy it 7. You have now "fixed" your Commodore 64. Pat yourself on the back for a job well done. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jss at subatomix.com Sat Dec 7 22:57:02 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: Spamproofing the Archives In-Reply-To: <200212080119.UAA22103@conman.org> References: <200212080119.UAA22103@conman.org> Message-ID: <166113816920.20021207225540@subatomix.com> On Saturday, December 7, 2002, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > Any reason for no database? Simplicity. > if you do a simple method like rotation or XOR it *will* be cracked. ... > *Will* a spammer do such a thing? Probably not, but there is that > possibility and it's fairly easy to crack I'd say it's remote enough not to worry about it until later. Light encryption with no database is easily and quickly implementable by me right now (err, after college is out). > I thought the idea was to have a link on the webpage: > > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > From: <a href="/cgi/reply.cgi?id=user.id&subject=Stuff+about+the+PCjr">Sean Conner</a> > Subject: Stuff about the PCjr > > The user would hit the link. The program would then display a form that > the user would fill out: > > <p>This will send a message to the user indicating that you wish to > talk to them. Fill in your email address and an email will be sent > to the person indicating you want to talk to them. They will then > respond to you.</p> That's not my idea. In mine, the user clicks the email link and gets a page that verifies he/she is human. From there they get another page that divulges the actual email address. Your idea is good, but I see one potential problem: people are lazy. For many people, when they get one of your "someone wants to talk to you" message, they may either procrastinate indefinitely or trash the message outright. An inquisitor is more likely to get results if he can get his/her message across in the initial contact. On the other hand, though, your idea does put one more approval step into the process. > (sorry for the C---I do all my CGI work in C). I'll probably do mine in C as well. -- Jeffrey Sharp From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Dec 7 23:09:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: Can you fix a C-64, or know someone who can? In-Reply-To: <20021208014728.68121.qmail@web40912.mail.yahoo.com> from steve at "Dec 7, 2 05:47:28 pm" Message-ID: <200212080521.VAA27904@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Someone contacted me wanting his Commodore 64 fixed. > Can anyone recommend a person, place or thing? There are some people who will do it, but the cost of shipping it up there usually is far more than simply buying a "new" one. Sad but true. :-/ -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all? -- F.T. From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Dec 7 23:57:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: Anyone familiar with this one? In-Reply-To: <20021207190139.R99607-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <3DF28BBC.21870.18A5103C@localhost> I've been in the same place with my H/Z-89. It's going to have to wait a while longer. I do remember however, I was surprised to find a sound card. Don't know if it was the same one but likely. It would be a chore to unbury it right now tho. Lawrence On 7 Dec 2002, , James Willing wrote: > Finally (and I mean it, been trying to get to this one for over a year) > dug into an H-88 (H-89? WTD?) that had seen better days (but had this > real nice engraved metal name plate reading "HAL") <G>, and where one > might expect to find the cassette interface board, I instead found a > board with an AY-3-8910 sound generator and MSM5832NS clock chip along > with some other bits. > > Kinda neat. Etched on the board is the legend: > > Albrektson > Sound/Clock H-89 > > Now, while these chips are familiar enough... Has anyone else run > across this board and/or have any software for it? Be curious to see > what kind of fun can be had after I get some signs of life out of the > machine again. > > THanks; > -jim > --- > jimw@agora.rdrop.com > The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From tim at tim-mann.org Sun Dec 8 00:22:08 2002 From: tim at tim-mann.org (Tim Mann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: Catweasel Floppy Read/Write Tools, version 3.0 Message-ID: <20021207222420.24922a21.tim@tim-mann.org> Version 3.0 of my Catweasel Floppy Read/Write Tools is now available at http://www.tim-mann.org/trs80resources.html. This release adds support for the new Catweasel MK3 PCI card. The older Catweasel MK1 ISA is still supported as well. Standard blurb on the tools: The Catweasel Floppy Read/Write Tools are software for the Catweasel universal floppy disk controller. The tools run on both Linux and Windows 95 or MS-DOS. Source code is included under the GPL. cw2dmk will read several kinds of floppy disk, some of which ordinary PC controllers have trouble with, and save them in the DMK disk image format. (DMK is a format used by the Unix TRS-80 emulator xtrs and by David Keil's TRS-80 emulator for MS-DOS.) cw2dmk does not just read TRS-80 disks; it can handle (at least) any disk written using a Western Digital 177x/179x floppy disk controller, a PC-style NEC765-compatible controller, or a Digital Equipment Corporation RX02 controller. dmk2cw will write any DMK image back to a real floppy disk, and handles the same kinds of disks as cw2dmk. The package also includes the programs dmk2jv3 and jv2dmk, which convert between the DMK image format and the JV1 and JV3 image formats. These programs work without a Catweasel and can be useful for moving images between different TRS-80 emulators. -- Tim Mann tim@tim-mann.org http://www.tim-mann.org/ From jingber at ix.netcom.com Sun Dec 8 00:31:01 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: Catweasel Floppy Read/Write Tools, version 3.0 In-Reply-To: <20021207222420.24922a21.tim@tim-mann.org> References: <20021207222420.24922a21.tim@tim-mann.org> Message-ID: <1039329138.24624.1.camel@supermicro> I've been looking at these controllers on and off for awhile. What advantages do these have over a Central Point Option Board? Jeff On Sun, 2002-12-08 at 01:24, Tim Mann wrote: > Version 3.0 of my Catweasel Floppy Read/Write Tools is now available at > http://www.tim-mann.org/trs80resources.html. This release adds support > for the new Catweasel MK3 PCI card. The older Catweasel MK1 ISA is > still supported as well. > > Standard blurb on the tools: > > The Catweasel Floppy Read/Write Tools are software for the Catweasel > universal floppy disk controller. The tools run on both Linux and > Windows 95 or MS-DOS. Source code is included under the GPL. > > cw2dmk will read several kinds of floppy disk, some of which ordinary PC > controllers have trouble with, and save them in the DMK disk image > format. (DMK is a format used by the Unix TRS-80 emulator xtrs and by > David Keil's TRS-80 emulator for MS-DOS.) cw2dmk does not just read > TRS-80 disks; it can handle (at least) any disk written using a Western > Digital 177x/179x floppy disk controller, a PC-style NEC765-compatible > controller, or a Digital Equipment Corporation RX02 controller. dmk2cw > will write any DMK image back to a real floppy disk, and handles the > same kinds of disks as cw2dmk. > > The package also includes the programs dmk2jv3 and jv2dmk, which convert > between the DMK image format and the JV1 and JV3 image formats. These > programs work without a Catweasel and can be useful for moving images > between different TRS-80 emulators. > > -- > Tim Mann tim@tim-mann.org http://www.tim-mann.org/ From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Dec 8 01:50:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: Catweasel Floppy Read/Write Tools, version 3.0 In-Reply-To: <1039329138.24624.1.camel@supermicro> References: <20021207222420.24922a21.tim@tim-mann.org> <1039329138.24624.1.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <33455.64.169.63.74.1039333904.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I've been looking at these [Catweasel] controllers on and off for > awhile. What advantages do these have over a Central Point Option > Board? One obvious advantage is that you can use Tim Mann's Catweasel Floppy Read/Write tools with them. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Dec 8 04:08:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: The ACE is recovering :-) References: <m18KoOF-000IzbC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <001001c29ea2$11b413e0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Tony Duell wrote: > Yes, that sort of thing is really annoying. Why can't useful shops be > open on Sunday :-) I live quite close to the Farnell Electronics trade counter. Unfortunately Farnell stopped selling 2114 RAMs last year. Which is a total pig because a few 2114s would have made my ?5 order up to their ?10 minimum order quite nicely. >>>> I've got a 2114 in an old Commodore 64. I can justify pilfering >>>> parts from it because the PSU brick blew, the keyboard is shot and >>>> C=3D sold about a >>> Sure... >> Oh, come on. The damn keyboard is missing a key and most of the >> parts in = > I was not being sarcastic. As far as I am concerned, a dead C64 is a > perfectly good thing to raid. As you said, they're common... Jupiter Ace: As common as rocking horse manure C= 64: As common as ordinary bog-standard horse manure. Or tarmac. >>> have been published in ETI about 20 years ago, but I am not certain. >> Hmm... Interesting. You got a copy of the article, if it was >> published in ETI? > Probalby, somewhere. Just don't expect me to find it anytime soon! :-) > What always amazes me is that both RS and Farnell still sell rub-down > transfers for PCB artwork. Are there really companies who still design > PCBs that way rather than using CAD systems? I mean madmen like me > probably still do, but if Farnell sold stuff for such eccentric > people, they'd still be selling a lot of other things that they have > discontinued! Incidentally, I bought some rub-on (Letraset style) PCB transfers from RadioShack when I was on holiday in the 'States. Then a few months after I got back I bought a Panasonic KXP4400 300dpi LED printer and some Press-N-Peel. Now I use the PnP. Just out of curiosity, I'm planning to get a refurbished Sony CPD-E220 17" Trinitron computer monitor from DIGI-UK (www.digiuk.com iirc). Has anyone tried these monitors? Are they any good? I've used a Sony Multiscan 17sf II, that was quite nice. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From Qstieee at aol.com Sun Dec 8 07:54:11 2002 From: Qstieee at aol.com (Qstieee@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: OpenVMS VAX hobbysit CD Message-ID: <74.276cfbd1.2b24a983@aol.com> Also note that while at the Montagar site you ask for two different requests from a pulldown menu - VMS and Layered products. The Montagar people also told me that the hobbyist CD issue with 7.3-1 is coming soon. Currently the web site says they are out of VAX 7.2 CDs, thus my original post. Also note that a few third party vendors have joined the program, and you can get hobbyist licenses from them also. Even though it says DECUS number on the hobbyist PAK site, you can also use your Encompass US Associate number. Note that Encompass is the HP user group, and that Associate membership is free. There is a slightly confusing point - Encompass associate membership does not get you restricted Encompass web site access, so you will NOT be e-mailed a password, just your Encompass number. So once you have that, proceed to the Montagar site. The Montagar process is efficient; your PAKs are emailed within 15 minutes. The VMS fans on this list should see, for example, http://www.process.com/openvms/index.html Process Software has a hobbyist license for some of their products. They bought up MuiltiNet from TGV. I always though TGV was one of the better TCP/IP's for VMS. For today's trivia, TGV was an acronym for Two Guys and a VAX. Thanks to some help from list member Antonio Carlini, I am now up with VMS and Multinet, NFS, C and a few other items on a VAXstation 4000-90. From jim at jkearney.com Sun Dec 8 08:44:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: wire wrap strippers References: <200212070240.gB72eK0M002774@spies.com> Message-ID: <095501c29ec8$84291d50$1301090a@xpace.net> > The only strippers I've ever found that worked > well on wire wrap were those ones that looked like > small pliers and had white plastic shells that would > guide the wire onto stripper blades. I'm not sure who The newish Cut-and-strip tools work pretty well for me (http://www.okindustries.com/products/4.1.1.12.htm) The problems I have (with any tool) are holding the wire, and constantly switching tools between the stripper, needlenose and the wrapper. From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Dec 8 09:01:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: wire wrap strippers In-Reply-To: <095501c29ec8$84291d50$1301090a@xpace.net> Message-ID: <003d01c29eca$e2cf3d10$020010ac@k4jcw> Personally, I find the T-strippers to be the best tool. http://www.crawfordtool.com/wirestrippers.html --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jim Kearney Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 09:46 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: wire wrap strippers > The only strippers I've ever found that worked > well on wire wrap were those ones that looked like > small pliers and had white plastic shells that would > guide the wire onto stripper blades. I'm not sure who The newish Cut-and-strip tools work pretty well for me (http://www.okindustries.com/products/4.1.1.12.htm) The problems I have (with any tool) are holding the wire, and constantly switching tools between the stripper, needlenose and the wrapper. From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Dec 8 09:16:01 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: Catweasel on Mac OS X? (was Re: Catweasel Floppy Read/Write Tools, version 3.0) In-Reply-To: <1039329138.24624.1.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <5319FAFC-0AC0-11D7-9179-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> I've been contemplating getting one of the PCI catweasel cards, and the website says they will work in a Mac, but will it work under Mac OS X? Also, will it work only through a special utility, or will the computer be able to use it as a regular disk drive? (i.e. mount media on desktop, drag files to and from) Likewise, would there have to be some utility or something to tell the computer that a disk has been inserted, or would this new controller be able to sense that? There is a disk change line on PC floppy drives, but the standard PC controller doesn't support it. (IIRC) Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 01:32 AM, Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote: > I've been looking at these controllers on and off for awhile. What > advantages do these have over a Central Point Option Board? > > Jeff > > > On Sun, 2002-12-08 at 01:24, Tim Mann wrote: >> Version 3.0 of my Catweasel Floppy Read/Write Tools is now available >> at >> http://www.tim-mann.org/trs80resources.html. This release adds >> support >> for the new Catweasel MK3 PCI card. The older Catweasel MK1 ISA is >> still supported as well. >> >> Standard blurb on the tools: >> >> The Catweasel Floppy Read/Write Tools are software for the Catweasel >> universal floppy disk controller. The tools run on both Linux and >> Windows 95 or MS-DOS. Source code is included under the GPL. >> >> cw2dmk will read several kinds of floppy disk, some of which ordinary >> PC >> controllers have trouble with, and save them in the DMK disk image >> format. (DMK is a format used by the Unix TRS-80 emulator xtrs and by >> David Keil's TRS-80 emulator for MS-DOS.) cw2dmk does not just read >> TRS-80 disks; it can handle (at least) any disk written using a >> Western >> Digital 177x/179x floppy disk controller, a PC-style NEC765-compatible >> controller, or a Digital Equipment Corporation RX02 controller. >> dmk2cw >> will write any DMK image back to a real floppy disk, and handles the >> same kinds of disks as cw2dmk. >> >> The package also includes the programs dmk2jv3 and jv2dmk, which >> convert >> between the DMK image format and the JV1 and JV3 image formats. These >> programs work without a Catweasel and can be useful for moving images >> between different TRS-80 emulators. >> >> -- >> Tim Mann tim@tim-mann.org http://www.tim-mann.org/ > From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Dec 8 10:19:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: OpenVMS VAX hobbysit CD In-Reply-To: <74.276cfbd1.2b24a983@aol.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212081018100.13361-100000@george.home.org> On Sun, 8 Dec 2002 Qstieee@aol.com wrote: > The Montagar process is efficient; your PAKs are emailed within 15 minutes. > > The VMS fans on this list should see, for example, > http://www.process.com/openvms/index.html > Process Software has a hobbyist license for some of their products. They > bought up MuiltiNet from TGV. I always though TGV was one of the better > TCP/IP's for VMS. For today's trivia, TGV was an acronym for Two Guys and a > VAX. The question that I have is: Compaq, and now HP, say that all versions of VMS and layered are licenseable under the Hobbyists system. I have a couple of machines on which I'd rather run v5.5, or maybe v6.2. Does anybody know how to get Hobbyist PAKs for the older versions? Doc From foo at siconic.com Sun Dec 8 10:45:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: AN/ UYK-20X(V) In-Reply-To: <LPBBLBJLIBEFCMDGJEBHGEMEDFAA.shirin@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212080047040.26071-100000@siconic.com> On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, shirin wrote: > I have 9 brand new AN/ UYK-20X(V) in stock. Any one interested? > Original package plus all accessories. > Regards, > Shirin > Tel: 604- 5522598 What the heck is this? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sun Dec 8 10:49:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: Need information on TRSDOS 1.3 internals In-Reply-To: <20021207164837.674f5c31.tim@tim-mann.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212080048330.26071-100000@siconic.com> On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Tim Mann wrote: > In my other reply, I gave a pointer to the on-line Programmer's Guide to > TRSDOS/LS-DOS Version 6. Here it is again: > http://www.tim-mann.org/trs80/doc/prgguide.pdf Although the Guide is > denser and not nearly as fun to read as Pennington's book, it contains > the same information (and more) and has the advantage of already being > on-line. It also has the same drawback, namely that it doesn't cover > the differences in Model III TRSDOS. Between this and the details of your recollection you gave me in your last message, I think I can make something happen. Thanks very much for the information! Are the TRSDOS 1.3 internals documented in any of the TRS-80 reference manuals? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Dec 8 10:52:02 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: OpenVMS VAX hobbysit CD In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212081018100.13361-100000@george.home.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212081150550.717-100000@ibm-ps850.purdueriots.com> On Sun, 8 Dec 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Sun, 8 Dec 2002 Qstieee@aol.com wrote: > > > The Montagar process is efficient; your PAKs are emailed within 15 minutes. > > > > The VMS fans on this list should see, for example, > > http://www.process.com/openvms/index.html > > Process Software has a hobbyist license for some of their products. They > > bought up MuiltiNet from TGV. I always though TGV was one of the better > > TCP/IP's for VMS. For today's trivia, TGV was an acronym for Two Guys and a > > VAX. > > The question that I have is: > Compaq, and now HP, say that all versions of VMS and layered are > licenseable under the Hobbyists system. I have a couple of machines on > which I'd rather run v5.5, or maybe v6.2. > Does anybody know how to get Hobbyist PAKs for the older versions? Umm, I've been able to just load the 'new' PAK's that they provide on a system running VMS 5.1 (and maybe the one running 5.3, but not sure I've done that yet). Basically, the PAKs don't care what version of VMS you have. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sun Dec 8 10:56:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: AN/ UYK-20X(V) Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C722@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Unsollicited Commercial E-mail. > -----Original Message----- > From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] > Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 9:47 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: AN/ UYK-20X(V) > > > On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, shirin wrote: > > > I have 9 brand new AN/ UYK-20X(V) in stock. Any one interested? > > Original package plus all accessories. > > Regards, > > Shirin > > Tel: 604- 5522598 > > What the heck is this? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Dec 8 10:59:05 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: Catweasel Floppy Read/Write Tools, version 3.0 In-Reply-To: "Jeffrey H. Ingber"'s message of "08 Dec 2002 01:32:15 -0500" References: <20021207222420.24922a21.tim@tim-mann.org> <1039329138.24624.1.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <200212081647.gB8GlF9G027032@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Jeffrey H. Ingber" <jingber@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > I've been looking at these controllers on and off for awhile. What > advantages do these have over a Central Point Option Board? They're documented (at least, Jens was willing to send me a copy of the programming info when I asked), they're supported by open-source software, and you can buy new ones without having to wait for one to turn up on eBay or sifting through a vast pile of PC junk looking for one. -Frank McConnell From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Dec 8 11:02:09 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: OpenVMS VAX hobbysit CD In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212081150550.717-100000@ibm-ps850.purdueriots.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212081057050.13361-100000@george.home.org> On Sun, 8 Dec 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > Umm, I've been able to just load the 'new' PAK's that they provide on a > system running VMS 5.1 (and maybe the one running 5.3, but not sure I've > done that yet). Basically, the PAKs don't care what version of VMS you > have. Groovy!! Thanks! Doc From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Dec 8 11:16:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: AN/ UYK-20X(V) (fwd) Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021208121806.13160A-100000@osfn.org> !!!!!! No thanks. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 09:04:52 -0800 From: shirin <shirin@shaw.ca> To: William Donzelli <aw288@osfn.org> Subject: RE: AN/ UYK-20X(V) Original purchased Price: $90,554 USD I am selling these for $24,000 each Following is the list of accessories: It. 1. AN-UYK-20X(V)[PARA] Production Type 1600[PARA]Data Processing Set 1 2. SE610-AV-MMO-010 GFM Operating and Maintenance With Part List 1 3. SE610-AV-MMO-020 GFM Reference Data 1 4. SE610-AV-MMO-020 GFM Equipment Diagrams Part 1&2 1 5. SE610-AV-MMO-050 GFM Diagnostic Programs 1 6. SE610-AV-MMO-060 GFM Diagnostic Program [PARA]Listing Basic test 1 7. SE610-AV-MMO-070 GFM Diagnostic Program [PARA]Listing Basic test Special IO 1 8. SE610-AV-MMO-080 GFM Confidence Tests 1 9. PX1302-0-6 Hardware Users Guide 8K 1 10. 7101943-02 STD Parallel Conn, Input 2U45 8 11. 7101943-03 STD Parallel Conn, Output 2U45 8 12. 7101943-05 Conn Serial 188C 6 13. 7128073-01 Maintenance Kit, Elect Equip 1 14. 7150314-01 Power Connector 60HZ 1 15. 7163304-00 Air Plenum ASSY 1 16. 7101943-06 Conn Serial RS-232C 2 60 Hz supply Weight: 334 lb They are complete and fully operational brand-new with military standards in original packing. Open to offers. I am located in Canada and the computers are in stock Dubai, UAE -----Original Message----- From: William Donzelli [mailto:aw288@osfn.org] Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 4:14 PM To: shirin Subject: Re: AN/ UYK-20X(V) > I have 9 brand new AN/ UYK-20X(V) in stock. Any one interested? > Original package plus all accessories. Yes. How much, and where are you located? William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Dec 8 11:34:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: wire wrap strippers References: <003d01c29eca$e2cf3d10$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <00b201c29ee0$55e81050$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.C.Wren" <jcwren@jcwren.com> To: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 10:02 AM Subject: RE: wire wrap strippers > Personally, I find the T-strippers to be the best tool. > http://www.crawfordtool.com/wirestrippers.html See http://www.idealindustries.com/ht/WireStrippers.nsf While I've never used the smaller size tools, I buy only t-strips for work (electrician). They're my favorites, and have been pretty reliable-- I've had eight or ten of them in the last six years, one of those was a replacement for a defective pair, and maybe two I wore out. Mostly they grow legs... :( > > --John Bob From jss at subatomix.com Sun Dec 8 12:26:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: new acquisition: an 11/73 running RSX-11 v4.6 and a question on cihper tapes & CDC SMD disks/controllers In-Reply-To: <v03130309ba16cf576005@[131\.215\.48\.178]> References: <v03130309ba16cf576005@[131.215.48.178]> Message-ID: <168162551686.20021208122754@subatomix.com> On Friday, December 6, 2002, John A. Dundas III wrote: >> Printronix P6000 ~400lpm line printer (biiig data center cabinet .. dot >> matrix, circa-1985) > > I could be wrong, but I think that's a P600. The 600 lpm version of the > P300 (otherwise identical). I broke my back (literally) on one of these. My local university surplus in Oklahoma has a P300 on sale for $20. It's in decent but dusty condition, and one of the casters is borken. I'd buy it, but I'm (still) short on cash, and I already have a big drum printer that beats the P300 in cool factor. (It's not made by 'Data Products Corp.' but instead by 'Data Printer Corp.'). They also have two NeXT laser printers, but they're priced at $50 each. I think that's a little too high. -- Jeffrey Sharp From dittman at dittman.net Sun Dec 8 12:30:01 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: OpenVMS VAX hobbysit CD In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212081150550.717-100000@ibm-ps850.purdueriots.com> from "Patrick Finnegan" at Dec 08, 2002 11:52:28 AM Message-ID: <200212081829.gB8IT1LK007819@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > The question that I have is: > > Compaq, and now HP, say that all versions of VMS and layered are > > licenseable under the Hobbyists system. I have a couple of machines on > > which I'd rather run v5.5, or maybe v6.2. > > Does anybody know how to get Hobbyist PAKs for the older versions? > > Umm, I've been able to just load the 'new' PAK's that they provide on a > system running VMS 5.1 (and maybe the one running 5.3, but not sure I've > done that yet). Basically, the PAKs don't care what version of VMS you > have. The Hobbyist licenses all use encoding method one for the checksum, so they should work on any version of VMS with LMF (unless a later version drops method one, which I don't see happening). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 8 12:51:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: wire wrap strippers In-Reply-To: <200212070240.gB72eK0M002774@spies.com> from "Al Kossow" at Dec 6, 2 06:40:20 pm Message-ID: <m18L6VK-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 605 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021208/c194456d/attachment.ksh From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Dec 8 12:55:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: AN/ UYK-20X(V) a different aspect: In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021208121806.13160A-100000@osfn.org> References: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021208121806.13160A-100000@osfn.org> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212081321340.28609-100000@panix3.panix.com> Just a bit of a Thought here.... Yeah, I don't think I'm going to buy two or three of these machines - Xmas y'know - bills to pay, relatives arriving from foriegn galaxies - that kind of thing. And I doubt there are any Listmembers who would wish to fork over US$24K (obo!) for a milspec 'puter, even if it *is* new-in-the-box. BUT: observe that there is an awful lot of 'orphanned' military hardware, test-sets, and ground support equipment piling up out there. With the enormous and radical changes in the HiTech infrastructure in the last ten or fifteen years, it is becoming increasingly hard for the Gummint to keep 'em flying (or driving, or floating..) when the Main Test Set for your craft is based on a DG Nova 3 with special I/O cards made by Hughes Electro-Optics in 1980 - and they made exactly 14 of those cards, and the schematics were tossed when HE-O was shuttered, and the engineers who worked on them are retired - not to mention who you can get to work on the Nova itself - but still you (as Commander) have a mission to fulfill. So, if you have run to the end of your AN/UYK spares, and three of your six mission-critical machines are irreparably casters-up... $24K suddenly becomes a most attractive price. Funds are transferred to Canada and the C-130 lands in Dubhai and scoops 'em up. Problem solved....for now. And if I was a Consultant to that poor Commander and had been looking all over for UYKs... I'd get them all for 24K/per and charge 5K EACH just to arrange the deal and qualify the hardware - (is it complete and as-described?) and THEN, I'd (of course) help with the set-up and Operational Checks, and put out any fires, step on the bugs, un-glitch the glitches.... for yet bigger bux, and Shirin's sorta-off-topic post would have worked out well for All Concerned, and that's what the List is for. Instead of being scrapped, the UYKs would have been put back in service where they belong... So there are other aspects to Classic Computers than us Collectors, though I know some of us don't like the intrusion of 'business' into the 'hobby'. C'est la Vie... Cheers Beltway Bandit From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 8 12:59:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: Can you fix a C-64, or know someone who can? In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212071252290.24274-100000@siconic.com> from "Sellam Ismail" at Dec 7, 2 12:53:45 pm Message-ID: <m18L6aW-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1069 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021208/41e6dd79/attachment.ksh From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Dec 8 13:02:04 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: new acquisition: an 11/73 running RSX-11 v4.6 and a question on cihper tapes & CDC SMD disks/controllers In-Reply-To: <168162551686.20021208122754@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212081048220.4296-100000@haiku.jarai.net> On Sun, 8 Dec 2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > They also have two NeXT laser printers, but they're priced at $50 > each. I think that's a little too high. Especially since you need the NeXT to act as a print server for them. They are rather nice 400dpi PS laser printers otherwise. I guess in theory one could adapt their proprietary serial interface to be used with some other system. -brian. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Dec 8 13:13:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: The ACE is recovering :-) References: <m18KoOF-000IzbC@p850ug1> <001001c29ea2$11b413e0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <015f01c29eee$4daa32c0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Just another quickie. I found out what happened to the "missing" five case clips. There are supposed to be five of them around the perimiter of the case of the Jupiter Ace to hold the top and bottom sections together. Guess what - I've only got the three that hold the PCB to the bottom of the case. Does anyone know of a source for replacements or am I going to have to use small nylon screws or bolts instead? Surely at least one company at least manufactures something similar? I can probably put one of the split-pin clips onto my scanner and upload an image somewhere if anyone wants to take a look. Just another thing wrong with my Jupiter Ace... Anyone got an Ace with a destroyed case or PCB? I'd really like to get some replacements for the five missing clips on my Ace... I've only got one more thing to say - it's a damn shame Jupiter/Cantab aren't in business anymore (can you say "excess stock"?) Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Dec 8 13:21:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: 3 P300 printer ribbons available Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212081413220.28609-100000@panix3.panix.com> Last summer, I was at a big ham radio swapmeet in Flagstaff, AZ. There were two of these printers floating around, which, due to size, got dumpstered because nobody would take them... we didn't have room even for one.. and they aren't all that rare anyway. I saved the ribbons out of them, two that were mounted and one (still in it's plastic bag) that was spare in one of the machines. Then I put them in one of the boxed of jun^H^H^H Stuff that I brought back and promptly forgot about them, until the discussion currently running reminded me. SO: Free to someone who *needs* them, you pay USPS priority mail shipping. Two have been used and might probably need re-inking, one is NOS. E-mail me OFF LIST please... first come - first served, and hopefully these should go to someone who is actively using (or restoring for use) one of these printers and can't find ribbons for it. Cheers and Merry Newtonsmas Santa From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Dec 8 13:48:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: AN/ UYK-20X(V) a different aspect: In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212081321340.28609-100000@panix3.panix.com> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212081137130.4296-100000@haiku.jarai.net> On Sun, 8 Dec 2002, John Lawson wrote: > So, if you have run to the end of your AN/UYK spares, and three of your > six mission-critical machines are irreparably casters-up... $24K suddenly > becomes a most attractive price. Funds are transferred to Canada and the > C-130 lands in Dubhai and scoops 'em up. Problem solved....for now. Well, it's certainly a reasonable price to pay if you're the US military and you need one of these. What I want to know, and this is perhaps ignorance on my part of how this works wrt to these sorts of things, exactly what are these boxes doing up for grabs on the free market in Dubai? I mean, assuming for a moment that these are systems which could be used as spares for gear in service--thereby justifying the quoted price--how exactly would they end up NIB in non-US gov't hands to be offered for sale? I guess that'll partly be dependent on exactly what these systems are supposed to do, and maybe they're fairly common gear. -brian. From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Dec 8 14:29:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: AN/ UYK-20X(V) a different aspect: In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212081137130.4296-100000@haiku.jarai.net> References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212081137130.4296-100000@haiku.jarai.net> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212081520040.14177-100000@panix3.panix.com> On Sun, 8 Dec 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > Well, it's certainly a reasonable price to pay if you're the US military > and you need one of these. What I want to know, and this is perhaps > ignorance on my part of how this works wrt to these sorts of things, > exactly what are these boxes doing up for grabs on the free market in > Dubai? "Free market" is a conjecture - there is a huge US military presence in the Gulf, and has been for many years. Stuff gets surplused every day... it is possible that these systems are sitting on a base somewhere, or were purchased by the original poster and are in his warehouse there... who knows? Its not like you're walking down the crowded market street and suddenly come upon a stack of US Mil Computers on a blanket next to the piles of dried chillies and freshly fried lizard-kabobs... ;} >I mean, assuming for a moment that these are systems which could > be used as spares for gear in service--thereby justifying the quoted > price--how exactly would they end up NIB in non-US gov't hands to be > offered for sale? > Anyone who has worked in or been around the Surplus Business (as I have) can tell you that critical Stuff ends up being surplussed all the time... and I personally have handled several deals where the Gummint bought back items that were sold by mistake, or were found to be neede later on. > I guess that'll partly be dependent on exactly what these systems are > supposed to do, and maybe they're fairly common gear. > This is also true - I was just using them as a hypothetical example. In reality, I have no idea what one is for... Cheers John From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 8 14:33:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: Can you fix a C-64, or know someone who can? In-Reply-To: <80AD1D7D-0A54-11D7-9179-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021208203527.20975.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sark <ian_primus@yahoo.com> wrote: > What's wrong with it? If it doesn't do anything at all, it's most > likely the power supply, they overheat and burn out easily. True, but if it has power and doesn't do anything (black screen, etc.), it's probably the 82S100 PLA. It's much more fragile than any of the C= custom chips. Cheapest source - another dead C-64 (with a different problem, obviously). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Dec 8 14:59:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: Can you fix a C-64, or know someone who can? References: <20021208203527.20975.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <017301c29efc$ffe5e980$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Ethan Dicks wrote: > True, but if it has power and doesn't do anything (black screen, > etc.), it's probably the 82S100 PLA. It's much more fragile than any > of the C= custom chips. Guess I know what was wrong with my dead C64 then. No biggie. I'm trying to track down a 15-series (1541, etc) drive - anyone got a spare they want rid of? Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Dec 8 15:17:01 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: Silly Question Message-ID: <AE411945-0AF2-11D7-9BF3-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Under the "It never hurts to ask" heading: Anybody want to trade a >>>working<<< commodore SX-64 for the working commodore 64+working 1541+ I'll even throw in the $19.00 from kmart TV I bought for it? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Dec 8 15:32:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: The Blue Wall! or Intel strikes again! Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021208163755.2197aad2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Take a look at this <http://home.cfl.rr.com/rigdon14/mds800-3/blue-w~1.jpg> I went scrounging Thrusday and went to my favorite scrap yard. I knew I was in trouble as soon as I drove into the place! Everywhere I looked I saw blue. Intel blue! I don't even know how many I bought. I've made two trips bringing it back so far I estimate that over 60% is is still there! The stuff in the picture is PART of what I've brought home so far. The LH stack has a MDS-230 and MDS-225, In front of that is an iUUP EPROM programmer and two MDS keybaords. The next stack has an OLD Intel terminal and a MDS-225. The third stack has a MDS-230, a Mostek dual 8" floppy drive box and an Intel DDR external 8" floppy drive box. On the right is a homebrewed S-100. In front is a SWEAT MDS-800. As you might have guessed from the picture, this stuff is sitting outside. The OL says that I HAVE to clean the house out before Christmas. I have another DDR drive chassis and a big stack of loose Multibus cards inside the house. I found the Multibus cards in a basket of cards that were going to be ground up for the gold scrap. I still at least two more MDS-2??s, a MDS-800, another Intel terminal, several external drive chassis AND (drum roll, please) a dish washer sized Intel external hard drive to pick up. For you heathins, there was also a huge pile of other classic computers. I bought a BBC Acorn, a home brewed S-100 crate, two Morrow external 8" floppy drives, a so far unidentified STD-Bus computer, five new Shugart SA-1004 8" hard drives, AT LEAST 20 Shugart 8" floppy drives, a Wicat computer, four different and FUNKY programmers panels, a rack mount dual 8" floppy drive box made by Mostek, a old but clean Centronics printer, a loaded Cromemco Z-2D, an Osborne OCC-1, a nice 80 TPI 5 1/4" floppy drive in an external case and a mass of other stuff that I can't even remember! I left behind a huge pile of Xerox 820s including external floppy and hard drives, an unidentified Xerox computer that's wider than the 820, a Multibus computer chassis made by Advanced MicroComputers (I think they're a subsidary of AMD) I later found the cards for the AMC computer in the pile of Multibus cards that I dug out of the gold scrap bin so I may go back and get it. Also left behind a GenRad 2300 Advanced Developement System with it's external dual 8" floppy drives and an external expansion chanssis. I wasn't sure what it was but later fround that it's a CPM system. Looks interesting but probably hopeless trying to find docs and SW. To top it all off as I was leaving Friday (trip 2) I went over to see the guy that they have stripping everything. I looked at what he was doing and he was busily gutting a drum memory!!! I looked around and found another that he had already torn one apart and I found there was one more to go. I wasn't intersted in it at the time but now I'm wondering if I should have gotten it. He said it weighed over 140 pounds! It looked like a 1/2 scale v-8 engine! That's all for now, back to cleaning, sorting and packing! Joe From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sun Dec 8 15:43:00 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: VAX wanted in Bristol, UK Message-ID: <3DF3BC3A.7060801@gifford.co.uk> Just heard from a friend that he's interested in a VAX, and he's based near here in north Bristol. Anybody know of a suitable machine? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Dec 8 16:04:00 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: wire wrap strippers In-Reply-To: <00b201c29ee0$55e81050$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <20021208220548.SRMB1511.tomts23-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > > > > Personally, I find the T-strippers to be the best tool. > > http://www.crawfordtool.com/wirestrippers.html > > See http://www.idealindustries.com/ht/WireStrippers.nsf > > > While I've never used the smaller size tools, I buy only t-strips for work > > --John > > Bob I liked the adjustable strippers develop a feel for "bite" and skip the adjustment. Can do that without nicking that wire. I haven't bought new one yet because this one I have is crappy and doesn't know of decent quality tools. :-) I once saw on factory electronics assembly tape, a assembler held say large cap with untrimmed legs thru circuit board and inserts the tool's barrel down that wire w/ barrel end snug against circuit board and squeeze handle. This snips and crimps over one lead at a time by hand-power. When done "loose" components is secure and ready for soldering process. Looks like pistol style. Where can I find THAT tool and what it is called? Oh, don't a tool exists to unbend those bent over leads while melting solder with normal solder iron at same time? Cheers, Wizard From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Dec 8 16:07:03 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:26 2005 Subject: AN/ UYK-20X(V) In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212080047040.26071-100000@siconic.com> References: <LPBBLBJLIBEFCMDGJEBHGEMEDFAA.shirin@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021208170632.21977cbe@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:47 AM 12/8/02 -0800, you wrote: >On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, shirin wrote: > >> I have 9 brand new AN/ UYK-20X(V) in stock. Any one interested? >> Original package plus all accessories. >> Regards, >> Shirin >> Tel: 604- 5522598 > >What the heck is this? Another dealer using the list for his business. I asked him the price for the UYK-20s. Trust me, you don't want to know! Joe From hansp at aconit.org Sun Dec 8 16:31:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: Contacting webmaster of RICM Message-ID: <3DF3C8C3.6020102@aconit.org> Anyone know how to contact the RICM. I need to tell them to change their web links to the CCC. The webmaster email address bounces - mailbox full! -- hbp From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Dec 8 16:57:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: AN/ UYK-20X(V) a different aspect: In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212081321340.28609-100000@panix3.panix.com> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021208174937.22133A-100000@osfn.org> > So, if you have run to the end of your AN/UYK spares, and three of your > six mission-critical machines are irreparably casters-up... $24K suddenly > becomes a most attractive price. Funds are transferred to Canada and the > C-130 lands in Dubhai and scoops 'em up. Problem solved....for now. From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Dec 8 17:02:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: AN/ UYK-20X(V) a different aspect: In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212081137130.4296-100000@haiku.jarai.net> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021208175954.22133B-100000@osfn.org> > Well, it's certainly a reasonable price to pay if you're the US military > and you need one of these. What I want to know, and this is perhaps > ignorance on my part of how this works wrt to these sorts of things, > exactly what are these boxes doing up for grabs on the free market in > Dubai? I mean, assuming for a moment that these are systems which could > be used as spares for gear in service--thereby justifying the quoted > price--how exactly would they end up NIB in non-US gov't hands to be > offered for sale? Probably just a screwup. It happens all the time in military surplus. These were probably to be shipped back to the US and then surplussed. Or they fell of the truck. That happens alot, as well. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 8 17:31:01 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: wire wrap strippers In-Reply-To: jpero@sympatico.ca "Re: wire wrap strippers" (Dec 8, 17:05) References: <20021208220548.SRMB1511.tomts23-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <10212082333.ZM7251@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 8, 17:05, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > I once saw on factory electronics assembly tape, a assembler held say > large cap with untrimmed legs thru circuit board and inserts the > tool's barrel down that wire w/ barrel end snug against circuit board > and squeeze handle. This snips and crimps over one lead at a time by > hand-power. When done "loose" components is secure and ready for > soldering process. Looks like pistol style. > > Where can I find THAT tool and what it is called? Variously known as a "cut and clench" tool or "cut and squeeze" pliers. Prices for basic pressed steel versions are as low as ten pounds. Take a look at Farnell's website, www.farnell.com, and look up catalogue numbers 147-210 (low cost cut-and-squeeze) and 441-077 (form and crop, pistol style -- a mere UKP55). > Oh, don't a tool exists to unbend those bent over leads while melting > solder with normal solder iron at same time? My Weller soldering gun came with a tool with aluminium ends, one end forked to grab component leads while the solder is molten. It wouldn't be hard to make one (but don't make the whole body out of aluminium or you'll burn your fingers!). Farnell 145-462 is similar, but not (IMHO) as good as my Weller one. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 8 18:08:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: wire wrap strippers In-Reply-To: <10212082333.ZM7251@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "pete@dunnington.u-net.com" at Dec 8, 2 11:33:12 pm Message-ID: <m18LBRk-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 592 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021208/3f7e87cf/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 8 18:48:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: wire wrap strippers In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: wire wrap strippers" (Dec 9, 0:06) References: <m18LBRk-000IzIC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <10212090050.ZM7364@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 9, 0:06, Tony Duell wrote: > > > and squeeze handle. This snips and crimps over one lead at a time by > > > hand-power. When done "loose" components is secure and ready for > > > soldering process. Looks like pistol style. > > > > > > Where can I find THAT tool and what it is called? > > > > Variously known as a "cut and clench" tool or "cut and squeeze" pliers. > > Prices for basic pressed steel versions are as low as ten pounds. > > They have various alternative names, which can't be used on a 'family' > mailing list like this one. Such names are used by the poor hackers who > have to remove the components again :-) Particularly the type that squeeze the component lead to make it twice as thick :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Dec 8 18:57:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: VAX wanted in Bristol, UK In-Reply-To: <3DF3BC3A.7060801@gifford.co.uk> References: <3DF3BC3A.7060801@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <33363.64.169.63.74.1039395558.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Just heard from a friend that he's interested in a VAX, and he's > based near here in north Bristol. Anybody know of a suitable > machine? Just about any VAX should be suitable for use in North Bristol. If you get a 120V one you might have to run it on a stepdown transformer. Most VAX systems are not suitable for operation in Leadville, Colorado, USA, however. Though they probably would mostly work OK there. Eric From jss at subatomix.com Sun Dec 8 19:26:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: Spamproofing the Archives In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212070103450.22791-100000@siconic.com> References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212070103450.22791-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <185187777649.20021208192820@subatomix.com> On Saturday, December 7, 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: >> Yeah, but CGI is the only way I know how to generate dynamic pages at the >> moment. I'd love to create a nice PHP-based, database-backed site with >> cool features like the most recent posts spilling down the front page in >> full blog style, but it would take me 2-4 weeks of learning time plus >> development time. It could be February or March before this was done. WWW >> development just isn't where I've been for the last 7 years. > > Actually, it would take days. PHP is just (almost) Perl but even easier to > program in. You're right! I spent some time I shouldn't have looking at the PHP reference, and it looks very easy to pick up. The plan, then, is to put up something static and simple (but better than the current contents ... ugh!), and follow that with a more dynamic site in PHP later. Thanks, all, for your ideas. Back to schoolwork... -- Jeffrey Sharp From dittman at dittman.net Sun Dec 8 20:20:01 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: VAX wanted in Bristol, UK In-Reply-To: <33363.64.169.63.74.1039395558.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Dec 08, 2002 04:59:18 PM Message-ID: <200212090221.gB92LqA1009954@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Most VAX systems are not suitable for operation in Leadville, Colorado, > USA, however. Though they probably would mostly work OK there. Okay, this went over my head. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Dec 8 20:45:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: VAX wanted in Bristol, UK References: <200212090221.gB92LqA1009954@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3DF403C9.6050003@jetnet.ab.ca> Eric Dittman wrote: >>Most VAX systems are not suitable for operation in Leadville, Colorado, >>USA, however. Though they probably would mostly work OK there. > > > Okay, this went over my head. read link. http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/VAX From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Dec 8 20:49:01 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: wire wrap strippers In-Reply-To: <10212090050.ZM7364@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: wire wrap strippers" (Dec 9, 0:06) Message-ID: <20021209025050.WBSY21933.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > > > Variously known as a "cut and clench" tool or "cut and squeeze" pliers. > > > Prices for basic pressed steel versions are as low as ten pounds. > > > > They have various alternative names, which can't be used on a 'family' > > mailing list like this one. Such names are used by the poor hackers who > > have to remove the components again :-) > > Particularly the type that squeeze the component lead to make it twice as > thick :-) That's not one I saw. That's crushing! :-( That's best served to crush idiot's electronics designer's fingers. That tool I talked about simply snips the lead then bent over securing component to PCB prior to soldering all in one squeeze of trigger. Oh, other tool is called lead forming prior to installation especially for resistors etc. That what I do not have in mind either. I repair electronics daily and having to securing and removing components, having those tools is a big saving time if I can find them. Especially when having to replace multiple components in one shot. For example, in RCA CTC203 chassis, I must replace 3 transistors & resistor (unique 43ohm) if SMPS blew out when horizontal transistor dies. Thanks goodness SMPS blow ups is occasional event. HOT blew fairly more often than SMPS if customer didn't bring tv in asap because of inductor's bad solder joint (L14401) caused by hot glue at factory when populating PCB and securing certain components with hot glue. (1) Most common if none of those blew before I get my hands on them is 1 minute fix for no pix/good audio by resolder that inductor. Then tv is good as new. That inductor is always 6.8uH coil wround 1 layer around small round ferrie bar secured w/ two red drops. This is placed in between HOT base and the horizontal transformer driver. Not all other makers do this. This cause me to wonder what reasons for using a inductor there? 85/10/5 is ratio of percentages on unblown simple resolder inductor versus blown hot but good SMPS as compared to both blown. Cheers, Wizard 1. Happened to my CTC185 tv because inductor L4401 solder joint went bad due to glue too this blew HOT & pass chopper regulator, few bits. > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Dec 8 20:55:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: VAX wanted in Bristol, UK In-Reply-To: <200212090221.gB92LqA1009954@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212081851050.4296-100000@haiku.jarai.net> On Sun, 8 Dec 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > Most VAX systems are not suitable for operation in Leadville, Colorado, > > USA, however. Though they probably would mostly work OK there. > > Okay, this went over my head. The only interpretations I could guess is that it's either some sort of Tesla reference, or that maybe Leadville is out in the middle of nowhere without adequate electricity. -brian. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Dec 8 20:58:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: VAX wanted in Bristol, UK In-Reply-To: <3DF403C9.6050003@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212081857051.4296-100000@haiku.jarai.net> On Sun, 8 Dec 2002, ben franchuk wrote: > Eric Dittman wrote: > > > Most VAX systems are not suitable for operation in Leadville, Colorado, > > > USA, however. Though they probably would mostly work OK there. > > > > Okay, this went over my head. > > read link. > http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/VAX So there is some relation between Leadville, Colorado and vacuum cleaners? -brian. From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Sun Dec 8 21:04:01 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: TD8E IOT's Message-ID: <1039403161.21119.9.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Does anyone have a list of the IOT instructions (and what they do) for the TD8E simple dectape controller? -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Dec 8 21:18:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: VAX wanted in Bristol, UK In-Reply-To: <3DF3BC3A.7060801@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212081902400.4296-100000@haiku.jarai.net> On Sun, 8 Dec 2002, John Honniball wrote: > Just heard from a friend that he's interested in a VAX, and he's > based near here in north Bristol. Anybody know of a suitable > machine? Given that "suitable" is a qualitative sort of term, it might be useful to have a few more details. How much physical space and electricity does he have available? How heavy of a VAX would he consider to be /too/ heavy? These are all important questions! Now I'm sure a wee little VAXstation 2000 or 3100 would be convenient, but perhaps some of his suitability requirements are that it be a big bulky system, one which would leave a lasting impression on the ladies. Though hopefully not as a result of the system tipping over and onto them. -brian. From jingber at ix.netcom.com Sun Dec 8 21:42:00 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: IBM printers Message-ID: <1039405365.27547.6.camel@supermicro> Can anyone provide me with links to information on IBM printers manufactured between 1981 and 1986? I'm especially interested in pictures of the printers themselves. Thanks, Jeff From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Dec 8 21:47:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: A Good Day at The Flea market and some Thrifts Message-ID: <004101c29f35$dcf82c10$7050ef42@oemcomputer> Today I got the following: commodore model 886D calculator. Atlantic Data Products MicroDrive II for the Apple II series computer in the box complete. Japanese game cartridge for the Super Famicon, cartridge is by SAMMY and is model SHVC-006 looks like baseball from the picture (can't read the language). Philips VELO 1 with 8MB ram and several cables plus two ac adapters with it. Also got several different mousepads for the collection and some XBOX, GameCube games. From dan at ekoan.com Sun Dec 8 22:29:00 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: Reading punched tape In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021208163755.2197aad2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021208233337.037c4eb0@enigma> Hello, I've put up an HTML version of a 1960's-era document regarding different techniques used to read punched tape at http://www.decodesystems.com/ce-punched-readers.html Perhaps it will help stir the imagination of those trying to build (or modify) a punched paper tape reader. Cheers, Dan http://www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From fernande at internet1.net Sun Dec 8 23:20:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: More clearing out and sorting-REVISED Message-ID: <3DF42856.9080400@internet1.net> All items $1.00 plus shipping unless otherwise specified. -PW2 Unisys Multiple Port Board, has two 16C452 serial ports and 1 parallel port, with driver disk, cable, and manual -Gateway ISA video card with docs and drivers (5.25" HD), ATI Ultra/A, ATI 38800-1 -486 AT motherboard model 486-PVT, I think it is a FIC, 7 slots, 2 with VLB extensions, socket 3 -generic PC plastic adjustable sidestand -decently built 5.25" bay to 3.5" floppy converter from old Gateway 386..... much better than the little flimsy things at the computer shows. -Teac 32x cd-rom model CD-532-E (IDE, barely used) $15 -"The Longest Day" on RCA Selectavision Video Disk (CED) (2 disk set) -"Tora Tora Tora" on RCA Selectavision Video Disk (CED) (2 disk set) -Paradise/WD 16 bit or 8 bit ISA 256K VGA card -Alaska by James A. Michener, hard cover, a bit musty smelling, but not too bad. -IBM XT motherboard, supposed to be last bios revison, and was purchased by me as such. $10 -AC 120mm 10 blade fan (loud and vibrates a bit too much for solid mounting I think, real nice fan though) -2 fan trays for the R400X DEC expansion chassis with fans $10 for both -SCO Open Desktop 2.0.0 on Qic tape with license certificate $5 For pick up only: -large AT server case built by Tandy, for Grid, for the Government. This case will hold a fullsize AT MB without it being underneath any drive bays or the power supply. Power supply has temp sensor and will adjust fan speed. Many drive bays. Very Nice case, I just don't need it anymore. Originally housed a EISA bussed 486. $10 Please reply off list Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Mon Dec 9 00:26:00 2002 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: VAX wanted in Bristol, UK In-Reply-To: <3DF3BC3A.7060801@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <000401c29f4b$f75806a0$4d4d2c0a@atx> > Just heard from a friend that he's interested in a VAX, and he's > based near here in north Bristol. Anybody know of a suitable > machine? > There are currently two Vaxen (and an Alpha) in the UK on eBay: Item # 2079180081, and 2078871311 both near London but a practical drive from Bristol. Andy From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Dec 9 02:16:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: TD8E IOT's In-Reply-To: Christopher McNabb <cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net> "TD8E IOT's" (Dec 8, 22:06) References: <1039403161.21119.9.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <10212090818.ZM7579@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 8, 22:06, Christopher McNabb wrote: > Does anyone have a list of the IOT instructions (and what they do) for > the TD8E simple dectape controller? 67x1 SDSS Simple DECtape skip on Single Line flag skip if Single Line flag is set 67x2 SDST Simple DECtape Skip on Time Error flag skip if Time Error flag is set 67x3 SDSQ Simple DECtape Skip on Quad Line flag skip if Quad Line flag is set 67x4 SDLC Simple DECtape Load Command Register load Command Register from AC clear Time Error start UTS delay if UNIT, DIRN, or STOP/GO flip-flops are changed 67x5 SDLD Simple DECtape Load Data Register load Data Register from AC -- do not clear AC clear Single Line and Quad Line flags 67x6 SDRC Simple DECtape Read Command Register load contents of Command Register, Mark Track Register, and Status bits into AC clear Single Line and Quad Line flags 67x7 SDRD Simple DECtape Read Data Register load contents of Data Register into AC clear Single Line and Quad Line flags Unit numbers: Unit 0,1 use opcodes 677x Unit 2,3 use opcodes 676x Unit 4,5 use opcodes 675x Unit 6,7 use opcodes 674x This is on page 8-4 of the PDP-8 Maintenance Manual, Vol.3, which you can get from David Gesswein's excellent website. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 9 02:39:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: VAX wanted in Bristol, UK In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212081851050.4296-100000@haiku.jarai.net> References: <200212090221.gB92LqA1009954@narnia.int.dittman.net> <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212081851050.4296-100000@haiku.jarai.net> Message-ID: <33740.64.169.63.74.1039423300.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > The only interpretations I could guess is that it's either some sort of > Tesla reference, or that maybe Leadville is out in the middle of nowhere > without adequate electricity. No, the electricity is fine there. However, it is not possible to operate most VAX systems there within the rated specifications of all of the subsystems. If no one figures it out in a few days, I'll explain. From dave at naffnet.org.uk Mon Dec 9 02:48:01 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: VAX wanted in Bristol, UK References: <200212090221.gB92LqA1009954@narnia.int.dittman.net> <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212081851050.4296-100000@haiku.jarai.net> <33740.64.169.63.74.1039423300.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3DF45960.8F0D901F@naffnet.org.uk> Eric Smith wrote: > > The only interpretations I could guess is that it's either some sort of > > Tesla reference, or that maybe Leadville is out in the middle of nowhere > > without adequate electricity. > > No, the electricity is fine there. However, it is not possible to > operate most VAX systems there within the rated specifications of all > of the subsystems. > > If no one figures it out in a few days, I'll explain. Altitude? Cheers, Dave. From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Mon Dec 9 04:40:01 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: OpenVMS VAX hobbysit CD In-Reply-To: <4f.27cbffa6.2b20d84f@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021209214132.022f2478@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 11:26 AM 5/12/2002 -0500, Qstieee@aol.com wrote: >Does anyone have one or know an FTP site? >If one can get real DEC VMS CD's will the hobbyist license PAKs work or do >you need the hobbyist CD? Well my experience is that the PAKs will work with any official DEC/Compaq/HP :-) OpenVMS CDs.... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Dec 9 05:23:00 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: KIMplement for the C64 In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212061046580.20707-100000@siconic.com> References: <200212070156.RAA27520@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3DF48C2D.19697.85C97023@localhost> > > > I seem to remember a program I had for the Apple ][ that emulates the 6502 > > > also. In fact, I have it here in my office. I think I'll dig it out and > > > try to figure out how it worked (since I never really played with it back > > > then). > > I remember this too. Wasn't it called something like The Visual Computer, or > > some such? > Yes, that's it! You're not talkng about the 'Visual 6502' ? Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Dec 9 05:35:00 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: KIMplement for the C64 In-Reply-To: <200212070156.RAA27520@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212060353200.19648-100000@siconic.com> from Sellam Ismail at "Dec 6, 2 03:54:26 am" Message-ID: <3DF48ED5.26567.85D3D10F@localhost> > > I want to play with this on my Apple ][. > The core is portable, anyway. The remaining hardware emulation uses sprites > and a few other tricks which might be a bit harder but still doable. Well, again, porting it to an Apple II type machine is the way to go. Every out of the Box IIgs is a 2.8 MHz 65816 and a plain IIc+ is a 4 MHz 65C02 and therefore more suitable - geting the emulated Microcess down to 7 minutes per turn will be a quite nice thing... And then there are the 4 and 8 MHz Zip Chips and the 5 and 10 MHz Rocket Chips for plain Apples. Not to speak of the TransWarp CPUs for the GS. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Mon Dec 9 06:05:00 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: The ACE is recovering :-) Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBA6@lif015.merlincommunications.com> Phil, > I'm not even sure they are 2532s (they might be 2732s). > They're TI branded and carry the part numbers "ACE-A" > and "ACE-B". I don't have an EPROM programmer either... I have copies of the ROMs for the ACE. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Dec 9 09:55:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: AN/ UYK-20X(V) a different aspect: Message-ID: <BAY1-F201uzwkjU8LzQ0000c608@hotmail.com> As for who would still be needing -20's, my money is on NATO (and non-NATO) countries who have purchased older warships from us. Just because the US government doesn't need them does not mean that no other goverments need them. Will J _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From foo at siconic.com Mon Dec 9 11:22:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: Can you fix a C-64, or know someone who can? In-Reply-To: <m18L6aW-000IzIC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212090121500.29858-100000@siconic.com> On Sun, 8 Dec 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > Commodore 64 Repair Made Easy > > > > 1. Pick up broken C64 > > 2. Walk to your parts bin > > 3. Place C64 in parts bin > > 4. Go to local thrift store or log on to eBay > > 5. Search for C64 > > 6. Buy it > > 7. You have now "fixed" your Commodore 64. Pat yourself on the back for a > > job well done. > > Err, it's just possible that the original poster wants to _learn_ about > computer repair (that's real computer repair, not board-swapping!). The > C64 is a fairly good machine to practice on because they are so common. > If you make a mess of it, you've not done too much real damage. Sorry, I couldn't resist ;) > ARD's guide to C64 repair : > > 1) Check the outputs of the power brick > 2) Check the supply voltages at the ICs on the mainboard > 3) Check if the master clock is running. Is it getting to the CPU? > 4) Check data and address buses for activity. Any lines stuck? > 5) Check video circuitry -- is it attempting to access memory? Check > video output signals. For the novice repairer: 1. Make sure the power supply is working (use a meter, not your tongue) 2. Check if the fuse is blown 3. Swap all the socketed ICs one at a time 4. Swap all the socketed ICs from another (ideally broken) C64 Apologies to Tony. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Dec 9 11:27:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: AN/ UYK-20X(V) a different aspect: In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212081137130.4296-100000@haiku.jarai.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212090125380.29858-100000@siconic.com> On Sun, 8 Dec 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > Well, it's certainly a reasonable price to pay if you're the US military > and you need one of these. What I want to know, and this is perhaps > ignorance on my part of how this works wrt to these sorts of things, > exactly what are these boxes doing up for grabs on the free market in > Dubai? The US military has had a base in Dubai since at least the first Gulf fiasco. > I mean, assuming for a moment that these are systems which could > be used as spares for gear in service--thereby justifying the quoted > price--how exactly would they end up NIB in non-US gov't hands to be > offered for sale? Lots of US military stuff ends up on the surplus market. Computers such as these, things like gas masks and flak jackets, shoulder-fired surface to air missile launchers, basic stuff like that. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dundas at caltech.edu Mon Dec 9 11:32:00 2002 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: new acquisition: an 11/73 running RSX-11 v4.6 and a question on cihper tapes & CDC SMD disks/controllers In-Reply-To: <20021207181913.GE1293@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <v03130309ba16cf576005@[131.215.48.178]> <DC377F3E-0944-11D7-84C3-000393853BFC@zeitgeist.com> <v03130309ba16cf576005@[131.215.48.178]> Message-ID: <v03130308ba1a831d310c@[131.215.48.178]> Jochen, Outstanding, I will try this at my next opportunity. I did find a way to get to the menu by doing a examine/deposit/go sequence (that I don't have in front of me at the moment). Any idea what sort of CD ROMs and SCSI disks are compatible? Thanks, John At 10:19 AM -0800 12/7/02, Jochen Kunz wrote: >On Fri, Dec 06, 2002 at 02:12:30PM -0800, John A. Dundas III wrote: > >> I have a Dilog SQ706A, for which I am unable to find docs. >I have a SQ706A too. It is quite easy to configure. It has a 10 pin >connector like the console connector on a MicroVAX II / III CPU >(KA630, KA650, KA655). Connect the console cable from the CPU to >the 10 pin connector of the SQ706A, reset / powercycle the machine >and you get a menu on the console terminal to configure the SQ706A. >I don't know if it works with a PDP-11 / DLV11 console cable / >bulthead. > >> However it does appear to be a SCSI controller emulating MSCP. >It is. You can set up SCSI ID => MSCP mapping and CSR in the menu. >Unfortunately it does only MSCP not TMSCP. But it does map CDROM >drives as MSCP disk. >-- > > > >tsch??, > Jochen > >Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From ipscone at msdsite.com Mon Dec 9 11:42:00 2002 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: Sharp PC-7100 Configuration Question In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212090121500.29858-100000@siconic.com> References: <m18L6aW-000IzIC@p850ug1> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212090121500.29858-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <39884.130.76.32.14.1039455850.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> I have a question regarding a Sharp PC-7000 series computer. I think mine is a 7221 or such. It has a hard drive and a floppy drive (FDD) My problem is that when the computer boots up, I get a "configuration" error. I can hear the HD spin up but apparently there is nothing on it. The "configuration" error says to strike F1 to continue and when I do, I get an error that indicates that the device is not a boot device. The FDD is never accessed and the FDD light never lights. So, my questions are these: 1) Is there a source for the configuration diskette somewhere on the internet, so that I can get a copy of that diskette? 2) What can I do to reset the configuration, since I don't seem to have FDD access? Ctl-Alt-Setup does not seem to allow me to set the FDD to boot. Thanks, From foo at siconic.com Mon Dec 9 12:34:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: KIMplement for the C64 In-Reply-To: <3DF48C2D.19697.85C97023@localhost> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212090233070.30039-100000@siconic.com> On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, Hans Franke wrote: > > > > I seem to remember a program I had for the Apple ][ that emulates the 6502 > > > > also. In fact, I have it here in my office. I think I'll dig it out and > > > > try to figure out how it worked (since I never really played with it back > > > > then). > > > > I remember this too. Wasn't it called something like The Visual Computer, or > > > some such? > > > Yes, that's it! > > You're not talkng about the 'Visual 6502' ? Ok, the actual title is "The Visible Computer: 6502". I'll play with it later on (if I have time). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Dec 9 14:21:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: AN/UYK-20X(V) and AN/UYK-44(V) a different^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H CHEAPER aspect: In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212090125380.29858-100000@siconic.com> References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212081137130.4296-100000@haiku.jarai.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021209152803.4c3f5156@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I don't know about the rest of you but I can't afford $24k for a computer! So for the rest of us I have five UYK-20(V)s and two UYK-44(V)s. These were built by Sperry-Rand and both have core memory and I think both are militarized versions of the Sperry Univac. IIRC there are eight large core memory boards in the UYK and 4 or 8 large modules of core memory in the UYK-44. A number of people E-mailed when I mentioned these a month or two ago and said they wanted one if I was ever able to get them. I finally was able to pick them up this morning and they're now at a warehouse in Sanford, Florida (a dammed site closer than Dubai!) They have minor damage from being surplused (dirty, bent switches, scratched paint, etc) and the top cover plate is missing from one of them. All of them are complete AFIK and all the connectors appear to be intact. There are no accessories, manuals OR WARRANTY. I'll contact everyone individually that previously asked me about them as soon as I get them loaded onto pallets and get the weights. They're now at an industrial warehouse and I have a forklift available to load them onto a truck. These WILL need to go by truck. I found the weight on one and it said 205 pounds. I think I remember the weight on the other as 165 pounds. That is without a pallet, crate, packing or padding so it will be higher before they're ready to travel. I'm open to offers on the price ($24k would be nice, hint, hint! :-) Joe From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 9 14:26:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: VAX wanted in Bristol, UK In-Reply-To: <3DF45960.8F0D901F@naffnet.org.uk> References: <200212090221.gB92LqA1009954@narnia.int.dittman.net> <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212081851050.4296-100000@haiku.jarai.net> <33740.64.169.63.74.1039423300.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3DF45960.8F0D901F@naffnet.org.uk> Message-ID: <2341.4.20.168.187.1039465689.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> I wrote (about Leadville, Colorado): > it is not possible to operate most VAX systems there within the rated > specifications of all of the subsystems. Dave Woodman wrote: > Altitude? Bingo! Disk drives are almost always rated for operation to a maximum altitude of 10K feet above sea level. From dave at naffnet.org.uk Mon Dec 9 14:36:00 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: VAX wanted in Bristol, UK References: <200212090221.gB92LqA1009954@narnia.int.dittman.net> <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212081851050.4296-100000@haiku.jarai.net> <33740.64.169.63.74.1039423300.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3DF45960.8F0D901F@naffnet.org.uk> <2341.4.20.168.187.1039465689.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3DF4FF3F.2BB87066@naffnet.org.uk> Eric Smith wrote: > I wrote (about Leadville, Colorado): > > it is not possible to operate most VAX systems there within the rated > > specifications of all of the subsystems. > > Dave Woodman wrote: > > Altitude? > > Bingo! > > Disk drives are almost always rated for operation to a maximum altitude > of 10K feet above sea level. Well, if people insist on living in the highest incorporated city in the US... From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 9 15:28:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: VAX wanted in Bristol, UK In-Reply-To: <2341.4.20.168.187.1039465689.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <20021209213029.28811.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Smith <eric@brouhaha.com> wrote: > I wrote (about Leadville, Colorado): > > it is not possible to operate most VAX systems there within the rated > > specifications of all of the subsystems. > > Dave Woodman wrote: > > Altitude? > > Bingo! > > Disk drives are almost always rated for operation to a maximum altitude > of 10K feet above sea level. I've run into that problem in Antarctica - people want to put hard disks on the side of Mt. Erebus (~13,000 ft) for seismic data collection, and Amundsen-Scott South Pole station is nominally at 9,300 ft, but because of the rotation of the earth, the troposphere is noticably thinner at the poles than the equator - the atmospheric pressure regularly fluctuates between 620-680 millibars. It rarely exceeds 700 (it in fact did during my visit, which blew up a poorly written spread- sheet used to track weather statistics). The physio-altitude (calculated from temp/pressure/humidity to gauge the effect on humans) at Pole ranges from 9,500 to 14,000 ft. On Erebus, they use pressurized drive canisters for external SCSI drives. At Pole, they don't do anything special. Drives die all the time. To add insult to injury, massively dry air holds a lot less heat than the air you and I are breathing right now - computers and hard disks frequently die from overheating at the South Pole - the air is thinner and drier and can't conduct as much heat away from CPUs and drives. ObVax: as late as 1997, VAXen were still in daily use at McMurdo and Pole as primary DNS servers (mcmurdo.gov) and station monitor drivers (via VT420s around Pole with weather and flight info updated frequently). Not sure when they retired them. Probably only recently if at all. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From RCini at congressfinancial.com Mon Dec 9 15:39:27 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:27 2005 Subject: Looking for N* parts Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E512721C@MAIL10> Hello, all: I'm working with Scott LaBombard to get my N* system (which is mostly made up of Vector parts) working. This has been an on-and-off project of mine for years, but I enlisted Scott's help since I can't seem to make it work. After slogging through all the parts, re-configuring everything, and doing some testing, we've found that I need either a N* single-density boot disk or an MDS-AD/AD2/AD3 double-density controller. It seems that when I got this machine a few years ago, the person must have had multiple N* systems and sent me only double-density disks (common) for a single-density (more rare) equipped system. Can someone help me out with this? Does anyone have a spare N* DD controller? Thanks in advance. We're pretty close on this one. Rich From dittman at dittman.net Mon Dec 9 16:14:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: VAX wanted in Bristol, UK In-Reply-To: <20021209213029.28811.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 09, 2002 01:30:29 PM Message-ID: <200212092215.gB9MFmdg016583@narnia.int.dittman.net> > On Erebus, they use pressurized drive canisters for external SCSI drives. > At Pole, they don't do anything special. Drives die all the time. To > add insult to injury, massively dry air holds a lot less heat than the > air you and I are breathing right now - computers and hard disks frequently > die from overheating at the South Pole - the air is thinner and drier > and can't conduct as much heat away from CPUs and drives. The flame throwers to incinerate the Things can't help, either. :-) I always thought it would be fun to visit Antartica and maybe work there for a year. Now that I'm married I don't think I'd be able to go there. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From donm at cts.com Mon Dec 9 16:20:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: Looking for N* parts In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E512721C@MAIL10> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0212091420290.20183-100000@crash.cts.com> On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, Cini, Richard wrote: > Hello, all: > > I'm working with Scott LaBombard to get my N* system (which is > mostly made up of Vector parts) working. This has been an on-and-off project > of mine for years, but I enlisted Scott's help since I can't seem to make it > work. > > After slogging through all the parts, re-configuring everything, and > doing some testing, we've found that I need either a N* single-density boot > disk or an MDS-AD/AD2/AD3 double-density controller. It seems that when I > got this machine a few years ago, the person must have had multiple N* > systems and sent me only double-density disks (common) for a single-density > (more rare) equipped system. > > Can someone help me out with this? Does anyone have a spare N* DD > controller? > > Thanks in advance. We're pretty close on this one. > > Rich Rich, I can likely accomodate you on the SD disk. Are you looking for CP/M or N*DOS? - don From cb at mythtech.net Mon Dec 9 18:00:01 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: 386 Motherboards available Message-ID: <S.0000093817@mythtech.net> I have a few 386 motherboards here that I want to get rid of. They are free for the taking, or I will ship them to anywhere if you cover the costs. All are as is, but should have been working when removed from service. I have the following: - AMD 386 SX-40, AMI Bios, "Cyclone" chipset?, 6- 16 bit ISA slots, 4- 30 pin SIMM slots. This board is smaller than normal boards. It measures 8.5 x 6.75 inches. - AMD 386 SX/SXL-25, AMI bios, VLSI chipset?, 7- 16 bit ISA slots, 8- 30 pin SIMM slots. Underside has a part number MB-1316/20/25VST. - Intel 386 SX-20, AMI Bios. "Chips" chipset?, 6- 16 bit & 2- 8 bit ISA slots, 8- 30 pin SIMM slots. This board is larger than normal, 13 x 8.75 inches. This is from a WYSE PC, and has some custome WYSE chips in it. Also looks like the AMI bios may be a custom WYSE job (at least it carries a WYSE part number). I don't know for sure if this one can be brought back up to working. It might have needed some ISA cards with it (which I don't know where they are, but I know I had some WYSE ISA cards for things like the drive controllers). 2- AMD 386 SX/SXL-25, AMI Bios, Opti chipset?, 6- 16 bit & 2- 8 bit ISA slots, 4- 30 pin SIMM slots. If anyone wants any of these, or parts from them, let me know. There are no math co-processors on them (but all 5 do have sockets for them). The WYSE board has what may be socketed cache chips (OKI, M514256A-80R, and OKI M51C256-80). -chris <http://www.mythtech.net> From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 9 18:04:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: VAX wanted in Bristol, UK In-Reply-To: <33363.64.169.63.74.1039395558.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Dec 8, 2 04:59:18 pm Message-ID: <m18LWaZ-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 557 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021209/bb21b9d1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 9 18:05:28 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: Can you fix a C-64, or know someone who can? In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212090121500.29858-100000@siconic.com> from "Sellam Ismail" at Dec 9, 2 01:24:36 am Message-ID: <m18LWjx-000IzUC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 714 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021209/1ca733df/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 9 18:06:56 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: VAX wanted in Bristol, UK In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212081902400.4296-100000@haiku.jarai.net> from "Brian Chase" at Dec 8, 2 07:20:30 pm Message-ID: <m18LXcY-000IzpC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 900 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021209/8e250c26/attachment.ksh From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Dec 9 18:52:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: UYK-40 vs UYQ-70 Shipboard computers Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212091948370.5230-100000@panix2.panix.com> In doing a bit of inquiry as to the desireability of the various surplus UYK40 and 44 computers, I found that the K-40s are all being replaced as fast as possible by the current UYQ-70 system, made by Lockheed Martin in Minnesota. You can check out this system at: www.q70.com quite a fascinating look at what the next generation's collectible surplus looks like today. Cheers John From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Mon Dec 9 19:12:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: RL02 Disk Cartridge Problems - why that particular pack is junk In-Reply-To: <m18Jjfa-000IzlC@p850ug1> References: <m18Jjfa-000IzlC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <1039482846.13266.40.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> The RL01/RL02 manual that I won on E-Bay last week arrived in the mail today. It has quite a good write up on the drive formatting, including the structure of each sector. The sector format is as follows: Sector Pulse: 62.5 microseconds, generated by slots on bottom of disk hub Header (Described Below) Data 128 16 bit words, or 256 8 bit bytes, or 170 12 bit words The sector header occurs after the the sector pulse and contains the sector number, track number, and head number of the sector in the following format: Preamble: 47 Zero Bits followed by a 1 bit Address: 16 bits - Sector: 6 bits Head: 1 bit cylinder:9 bits Zeroes: 16 bits of zeros CRC: 16 bits generated by CRC logic when data is written to the sector Postamble: 16 zero bits There is also a "guard track" on each side of the data track,whose purpose is to cause the head to go back to the center of the data track should it drift. When a drive is told to seek to a particular sector, it reads the factory written sector header to determine if it is the correct sector. If the drive can not find this info quickly enough, it will fault. Internal drive circuitry prevents the drive from writing to any part of the header (except the CRC word). It seems to me that to correctly format one of these disks after a bulk erasure, you would have to be able to do the following: 1. Correctly position the head - probably the easiest part 2. Write the correct sector header, including addressing 3. Write the guard tracks ( I bet this is the most difficult) 4. Make sure all the header data gets written to the disk in the required 62.5 milliseconds (one sector requires 625 milliseconds to pass under the head, the data part of the sector takes 500 milliseconds, the servo pulse takes 62.5 milliseconds. 5. Create the "Bad Block" file at the end of the disk. So, looking at the above, I can see where it would very difficult to format one of these guys using a stock RL01/RL02 drive, even modified. It may be possible, however, to do it with another manufacturer's 5440 type disk drive, but I'm just guessing. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Dec 9 20:01:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: Catweasel Floppy Read/Write Tools, version 3.0 In-Reply-To: <33455.64.169.63.74.1039333904.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212091758350.846-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> > > I've been looking at these [Catweasel] controllers on and off for > > awhile. What advantages do these have over a Central Point Option > > Board? On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > One obvious advantage is that you can use Tim Mann's Catweasel Floppy > Read/Write tools with them. That is significant. Although the hardware capabilities seem likely to be quite similar, not only is the Central Point board no longer available, but while it was available, Central Point was very unenthusiastic about having any third party software written for it. It is not always clear in the literature for the Catweasel as to which capabilities are theoretical possibilities, v which ones are currently supported by available software. And when there is a statement such as that it can read Commodore 64 disks, does that mean that it can read and create raw images, or transfer files to and from? From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Dec 9 20:38:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: Tubes in computers - numbers, please Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021209212901.10404D-100000@osfn.org> There is a large quantity of tubes for sale near me, and while it is silly to think I can buy and store them all, I might be interested in buying quantities of *computer-rated* tubes - things like 5749s, 5814As, 6414s, and so forth. Some day, maybe a 709 will come my way with 1000 empty sockets... Anyway, if any of you folks have information or samples of old tube based computing junk (modules, for example, or old unit-record stuff) - could I bother you to tell me what types of tubes were originally installed? I am looking for specific numbers, not just "dual triodes". It would be nice to know which machines used which tubes - for example: Machine Tube(s) Used ----------------------------------- IBM 604 1684, 2032 Thanks a bunch! William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Dec 9 20:54:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: Nice Find today and some good books Message-ID: <01c901c29ff7$a2482210$e850ef42@oemcomputer> Found a Micro Genius IQ-501 Computer Game console and one controller/joystick for it at a thrift. It's a NES/Famicom Pirate Clone. You can see it a this site page down to the bottom: http://www.gamersgraveyard.com/repository/nes/pirate/pirate-clones-A-M.html Also got a couple books in from Amazon; the one called High Score! the illustrated history of electronic games is a good source of info and pictures of old consoles. The other book called "the ULTIMATE History of Video Games" I have not started yet. My copy of Collectible Microcomputers came by mail today and I hope to start reading it soon. From spector at zeitgeist.com Mon Dec 9 21:04:37 2002 From: spector at zeitgeist.com (David HM Spector) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: new acquisition: an 11/73 running RSX-11 v4.6 and a question on cihper tapes & CDC SMD disks/controllers In-Reply-To: <BAY1-F133AX3cf3ednH0000ae40@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <45FC5FDD-0BEC-11D7-A981-000393853BFC@zeitgeist.com> Ah! OK.. the number in these drives is PA5A1A ... any idea of their capacity and what controller I would need to make'm go..? David On Saturday, Dec 7, 2002, at 02:28 America/New_York, Will Jennings wrote: > Actually, the 7-whatever number sounds like a CDC part number... if > they are FSDs, there will be, somewhere on the label, a model number > of PAxxx, if either of you find one of these legends, let me know > because I have most of the FSD manuals... Blah on ditching SMD for > SCSI, if anything I want MORE SMD disks, though for my Perkin-Elmers, > not my DECs... > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From spector at zeitgeist.com Mon Dec 9 21:09:06 2002 From: spector at zeitgeist.com (David HM Spector) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: SCSI 9-Track tape under VMS..? Message-ID: <07122CCD-0BED-11D7-A981-000393853BFC@zeitgeist.com> From the its been way too long to remember department... I just put an old HP SCSI 9-track tape drive on my 4000/400 running Vax/VMS 5.2... Does VMS probe SCSI devices at boot time? Is there a way to access this drive without re-generating the system..? David ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - David HM Spector spector@zeitgeist.com software architecture - network/security consultation technical due diligence - technology planning/analysis Office:(631)261-5013 Cell: (631)431-5756 From jingber at ix.netcom.com Mon Dec 9 21:26:00 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: Catweasel Floppy Read/Write Tools, version 3.0 In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212091758350.846-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212091758350.846-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> Message-ID: <1039490831.6893.29.camel@supermicro> On Mon, 2002-12-09 at 21:02, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > I've been looking at these [Catweasel] controllers on and off for > > > awhile. What advantages do these have over a Central Point Option > > > Board? Maybe I should have re-phrased my question as it might have come off sounding sarcastic which wasn't my intention: I'm interested in whether or not this controller can perform the same functions as the Central Point OB, as the original part has obvious limitations (as stated in the previous posts), none the least of which are machine speed and bus interface. What I'd be interested in: Disk duplication: Is the controller capable of performing the same quality of copies as the OB? Disk images: Can the controller produce disk images for, and write images for 1) PC 2) Mac 400K, both using a PC as the host and taking into consideration the copy-protection requirement as stated above? I understand defeating copy protection is not the function of this controller, but that would be _my_ primary interest. I'm going to start a fairly large archival project soon which would require setting up a machine for the OB - something I'm not looking forward to. If I can do this in a "smarter" fasion with the Catweasel controller I would rather persue that route. Jeff > > On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > > One obvious advantage is that you can use Tim Mann's Catweasel Floppy > > Read/Write tools with them. > > That is significant. > > Although the hardware capabilities seem likely to be quite similar, not > only is the Central Point board no longer available, but while it was > available, Central Point was very unenthusiastic about having any > third party software written for it. > > > It is not always clear in the literature for the Catweasel as to which > capabilities are theoretical possibilities, v which ones are currently > supported by available software. And when there is a statement such as > that it can read Commodore 64 disks, does that mean that it can read and > create raw images, or transfer files to and from? > From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Dec 9 21:31:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: SCSI 9-Track tape under VMS..? In-Reply-To: <07122CCD-0BED-11D7-A981-000393853BFC@zeitgeist.com> from "David HM Spector" at Dec 09, 2002 10:11:08 PM Message-ID: <200212100331.gBA3VmU25519@shell1.aracnet.com> > From the its been way too long to remember department... > > I just put an old HP SCSI 9-track tape drive on my 4000/400 running > Vax/VMS 5.2... Does VMS probe SCSI devices at boot time? Is there a > way to access this drive without re-generating the system..? What happens when you do a 'SHO DEV MK'? For example: $ sho dev mk Device Device Error Volume Free Trans Mnt Name Status Count Label Blocks Count Cnt MONK$MKA500: Online 0 $ Though the above is a on a PWS 433au running OpenVMS 7.2-1H1 and the drive is a DEC TLZ06 (4mm DAT). Zane From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Dec 9 21:56:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: Can you fix a C-64, or know someone who can? In-Reply-To: <m18LWjx-000IzUC@p850ug1> References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212090121500.29858-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021209195756.03147ec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >Your (4) suggests taking parts from a broken C64. This C64 therefore has >a fault. If that machine and the machine you're repairing have the same >fault (likely if there are small number of 'stock faults') or a fault in >the same chip, then you're not going to get very far... How long does it take the DEC field service agent to fix a flat tire? Depends on how many flat tires he brought with him. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Dec 9 22:49:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: SCSI 9-Track tape under VMS..? In-Reply-To: <07122CCD-0BED-11D7-A981-000393853BFC@zeitgeist.com> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212092050210.4296-100000@haiku.jarai.net> On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, David HM Spector wrote: > From the its been way too long to remember department... > > I just put an old HP SCSI 9-track tape drive on my 4000/400 running > Vax/VMS 5.2... Does VMS probe SCSI devices at boot time? Is there a > way to access this drive without re-generating the system..? What type of Qbus SCSI controller are you using for the tape drive? -brian. From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Mon Dec 9 22:53:01 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: VAX wanted in Bristol, UK In-Reply-To: <20021209213029.28811.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> References: <2341.4.20.168.187.1039465689.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021209234923.00d2394c@pop1.epm.net.co> At 01:30 PM 12/9/02 -0800, you wrote: >On Erebus, they use pressurized drive canisters for external SCSI drives. >At Pole, they don't do anything special. Drives die all the time. To >add insult to injury, massively dry air holds a lot less heat than the >air you and I are breathing right now - computers and hard disks frequently >die from overheating at the South Pole - the air is thinner and drier >and can't conduct as much heat away from CPUs and drives. Quite frankly, to have a system die of heat exhaustion _there_ seems ludicrous. As long as the assembly can withstand a steep temperature gradient, there's lots of cooling available, with temperature low enough to compensate for the decrease in specific heat many times, right? carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Dec 9 22:55:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: Can you fix a C-64, or know someone who can? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021209195756.03147ec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> from Mike Ford at "Dec 9, 2 07:59:31 pm" Message-ID: <200212100506.VAA08880@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > How long does it take the DEC field service agent to fix a flat tire? > Depends on how many flat tires he brought with him. *rofl* I thought that was IBM field support, though. (Robert, you'll get a kick out of this :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Klein bottle for immediate occupancy; inquire within. ---------------------- From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Dec 10 00:33:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: A project for Tony... In-Reply-To: <200212100506.VAA08880@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212092230530.7807-100000@haiku.jarai.net> Here's a special project for you, Tony: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2079939801 What's mind boggling is that the seller powered the system on in this state. I'm sure that if any of the Qbus modules were salvagable, it's safe to say a smaller number of them are now. -brian. From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Tue Dec 10 03:37:11 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: SCSI 9-Track tape under VMS..? References: <07122CCD-0BED-11D7-A981-000393853BFC@zeitgeist.com> Message-ID: <3DF5B61B.2030003@Vishay.com> David, yes, long ago. If my memory serves me right (remember this?), early SCSI support was a bit picky about non-DEC devices, so maybe (worst case) this is your problem and you either need to get original hardware or a later VMS version. In general, VMS probes devices (not only SCSI) and loads all drivers for which devices are found. No SYSGEN required, and this has been true for longer than 5.2 already. You can even rerun the device detection process without rebooting: you need CMKRNL privilege, and then (on your VAX) issue a MCR SYSGEN AUTOCONFIGURE ALL. For Alphas, it is MCR SYSMAN IO AUTOCONFIGURE, and you need SYSLCK privilege, too. In either case, the device should show up as MKAn00:, where A assumes it is connected to the first or only SCSI bus in the system, and n should reflect the SCSI ID of the device. I guess you made sure that IDs are unique? Regards, Andreas David HM Spector wrote: > From the its been way too long to remember department... > > I just put an old HP SCSI 9-track tape drive on my 4000/400 running > Vax/VMS 5.2... Does VMS probe SCSI devices at boot time? Is there a > way to access this drive without re-generating the system..? > > > David > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - > David HM Spector spector@zeitgeist.com > software architecture - network/security consultation > technical due diligence - technology planning/analysis > Office:(631)261-5013 Cell: (631)431-5756 > -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 10 03:51:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: Can you fix a C-64, or know someone who can? In-Reply-To: <m18LWjx-000IzUC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212091751340.32035-100000@siconic.com> On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > For the novice repairer: > > > > 1. Make sure the power supply is working (use a meter, not your tongue) > > 2. Check if the fuse is blown > > 3. Swap all the socketed ICs one at a time > > 4. Swap all the socketed ICs from another (ideally broken) C64 > > You have inadvertantly pointed out one thing I object to about mindless > part-swapping. > > Your (4) suggests taking parts from a broken C64. This C64 therefore has > a fault. If that machine and the machine you're repairing have the same > fault (likely if there are small number of 'stock faults') or a fault in > the same chip, then you're not going to get very far... > > Chip swapping can only be of use if you _know_ all the chips you're > swapping in are good.. Sure, but chances are it will work. Don't get me wrong, I whole-heartedly agree with your philosophy on proper computer repair. But if you just want to get your machine up and running quickly so you can play with it, this is one way to do that, as not everyone has the time, patience or tools to do it the Tony Duell Way(TM) ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Gary.Messick at itt.com Tue Dec 10 07:21:00 2002 From: Gary.Messick at itt.com (Messick, Gary) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: VAX wanted in Bristol, UK Message-ID: <998FEBD9C16DD211881200A0C9D61AD704468C0A@ACDFWX3.acd.de.ittind.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Carlos Murillo [mailto:carlos_murillo@epm.net.co] > Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 11:49 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: VAX wanted in Bristol, UK > > > At 01:30 PM 12/9/02 -0800, you wrote: > >On Erebus, they use pressurized drive canisters for external > SCSI drives. > >At Pole, they don't do anything special. Drives die all the > time. To > >add insult to injury, massively dry air holds a lot less > heat than the > >air you and I are breathing right now - computers and hard > disks frequently > >die from overheating at the South Pole - the air is thinner and drier > >and can't conduct as much heat away from CPUs and drives. > > Quite frankly, to have a system die of heat exhaustion _there_ seems > ludicrous. As long as the assembly can withstand a steep temperature > gradient, there's lots of cooling available, with temperature low > enough to compensate for the decrease in specific heat many times, > right? > > carlos. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org > Actually, having flown a high altitude ballon experiment over Antarctica, it's the combination or less air to conduct heat away from the source (A VERY big problem at 100K ft.), combined with the intesity of the radiation from the sun (being filtered by less atmosphere as Ethan states) and the reflection from the ice. Our expeiment actually used nitrogen pressurized chambers with a optical WORM drive. It turned out we could pressurize the chanbers to about 1.75 atmospheres, then the optical drives would crap out. We suspected the pressure somehow deformed the lenses in the laser system. (aside) The optical drives were manufactured by a company called Cherokee systems in CO. They purportedly militarized the drives for aircraft, and could withstand low pressure. When the drives first arrived, after unpacking, we opened one of the drive doors, and a 2 inch moth flew out. After having some porblems, we call support, and mentioned the bug to them, and they responded, "Yeah, we're having a very bad year with the mothes this year!" I should have know then how buggy the drives system was going to be! ************************************ If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT. ************************************ From spector at zeitgeist.com Tue Dec 10 07:56:09 2002 From: spector at zeitgeist.com (David HM Spector) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: SCSI 9-Track tape under VMS..? In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212092050210.4296-100000@haiku.jarai.net> Message-ID: <71153586-0C47-11D7-AFDE-000393853BFC@zeitgeist.com> Its a KZQSA.... David On Monday, Dec 9, 2002, at 23:51 America/New_York, Brian Chase wrote: > On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, David HM Spector wrote: > >> From the its been way too long to remember department... >> >> I just put an old HP SCSI 9-track tape drive on my 4000/400 running >> Vax/VMS 5.2... Does VMS probe SCSI devices at boot time? Is there a >> way to access this drive without re-generating the system..? > > What type of Qbus SCSI controller are you using for the tape drive? > > -brian. From spector at zeitgeist.com Tue Dec 10 07:57:05 2002 From: spector at zeitgeist.com (David HM Spector) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: SCSI 9-Track tape under VMS..? In-Reply-To: <200212100331.gBA3VmU25519@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <9151E7E4-0C47-11D7-AFDE-000393853BFC@zeitgeist.com> Nada.... $ show dev mk %SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHDEV, no such device available _David On Monday, Dec 9, 2002, at 22:31 America/New_York, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> From the its been way too long to remember department... >> >> I just put an old HP SCSI 9-track tape drive on my 4000/400 running >> Vax/VMS 5.2... Does VMS probe SCSI devices at boot time? Is there a >> way to access this drive without re-generating the system..? > > What happens when you do a 'SHO DEV MK'? For example: > > $ sho dev mk > > Device Device Error Volume Free > Trans > Mnt > Name Status Count Label Blocks > Count > Cnt > MONK$MKA500: Online 0 > $ > > Though the above is a on a PWS 433au running OpenVMS 7.2-1H1 and the > drive > is a DEC TLZ06 (4mm DAT). > > Zane From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue Dec 10 08:29:07 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: Looking for N* parts Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E512721F@MAIL10> On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, Don Maslin wrote: >>Rich, I can likely accomodate you on the SD disk. Are you looking >>for CP/M or N*DOS? - don Don: I'd like to get both since none of the disks I have work. For more specifics, contact me off list. Thanks. Rich From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Tue Dec 10 09:04:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: A project for Tony... References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212092230530.7807-100000@haiku.jarai.net> Message-ID: <3DF60301.663BD5C3@compsys.to> >Brian Chase wrote: > Here's a special project for you, Tony: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2079939801 > What's mind boggling is that the seller powered the system on in this > state. I'm sure that if any of the Qbus modules were salvagable, it's > safe to say a smaller number of them are now. Jerome Fine replies: I don't know why I am bothering to reply, except to say: If the seller is dumb, those first two bidders (at $ US 20 and $ 21.50) must be even dumber. The CPU is an 11/23 quad board, but the RQDX1 is probably just that - since it looks like just an RD51. Even in perfect working order and guaranteed against at least DOA, it would not be worth even $ US 10.00 in my opinion. Since the power supply is on the other side, the power supply might still actually work. And although the back cover seems intact, the backplane cage does not seem worth fixing. As for the boards, I don't understand how the picture can show them as being almost normal with the kind of damage sustained on the left hand side. I wonder who actually bid? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From kth at srv.net Tue Dec 10 10:58:00 2002 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: SCSI 9-Track tape under VMS..? References: <200212100331.gBA3VmU25519@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3DF6210D.2000308@srv.net> Zane H. Healy wrote: >> From the its been way too long to remember department... >> >>I just put an old HP SCSI 9-track tape drive on my 4000/400 running >>Vax/VMS 5.2... Does VMS probe SCSI devices at boot time? Is there a >>way to access this drive without re-generating the system..? >> >> SCSI gets probed at boot time. You might try a "show device" or "show scsi" at the consol prompt ">>>" to see if it can see it. >What happens when you do a 'SHO DEV MK'? For example: > >$ sho dev mk > >Device Device Error Volume Free Trans >Mnt > Name Status Count Label Blocks Count >Cnt >MONK$MKA500: Online 0 >$ > >Though the above is a on a PWS 433au running OpenVMS 7.2-1H1 and the drive >is a DEC TLZ06 (4mm DAT). > > Zane > > > Try this run sys$system:sysgen SYSGEN> autoconf all then do the "sho dev mk" again. From spector at zeitgeist.com Tue Dec 10 11:28:12 2002 From: spector at zeitgeist.com (David HM Spector) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: SCSI 9-Track tape under VMS..? In-Reply-To: <3DF6210D.2000308@srv.net> Message-ID: <0064167F-0C65-11D7-8AB4-000393853BFC@zeitgeist.com> show scsi shows the KZQSA bit doesn't show any devices under it like what show dev shows for the RF35 disks on the system. I'm about to find a LInux box to put the tape on to make sure that its not the tape drive... David On Tuesday, Dec 10, 2002, at 12:14 America/New_York, Kevin Handy wrote: > Zane H. Healy wrote: > >>> From the its been way too long to remember department... >>> >>> I just put an old HP SCSI 9-track tape drive on my 4000/400 running >>> Vax/VMS 5.2... Does VMS probe SCSI devices at boot time? Is there a >>> way to access this drive without re-generating the system..? >>> > SCSI gets probed at boot time. You might try a > "show device" or "show scsi" at the consol prompt ">>>" > to see if it can see it. > >> What happens when you do a 'SHO DEV MK'? For example: >> >> $ sho dev mk >> >> Device Device Error Volume Free >> Trans >> Mnt >> Name Status Count Label Blocks >> Count >> Cnt >> MONK$MKA500: Online 0 >> $ >> Though the above is a on a PWS 433au running OpenVMS 7.2-1H1 and the >> drive >> is a DEC TLZ06 (4mm DAT). >> >> Zane >> >> > Try this > > run sys$system:sysgen > SYSGEN> autoconf all > > then do the "sho dev mk" again. > > From spector at zeitgeist.com Tue Dec 10 12:18:10 2002 From: spector at zeitgeist.com (David HM Spector) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: SCSI 9-Track tape under VMS..? In-Reply-To: <3DF6210D.2000308@srv.net> Message-ID: <F19CD62D-0C6B-11D7-8AB4-000393853BFC@zeitgeist.com> Hmmm... it gets wierder... With terminators on 1) the 2nd ports of the HP88780B and on the 2nd port of the KZSA I got nuthin' However, when I pull the terminators from everything, I get: >>> show scsi SCSI Adaptor 0 (761300, SCSI ID 7) -*KA0 (* *) -*KA100 (* *) -*KA200 (* *) -*KA300 (* *) -*KA400 (* *) -*KA500 (* *) -*KA600 (* *) >> still no luck seeing the tape drive after rebooting either before or after sysgen... _DHMS On Tuesday, Dec 10, 2002, at 12:14 America/New_York, Kevin Handy wrote: > Zane H. Healy wrote: > >>> From the its been way too long to remember department... >>> >>> I just put an old HP SCSI 9-track tape drive on my 4000/400 running >>> Vax/VMS 5.2... Does VMS probe SCSI devices at boot time? Is there a >>> way to access this drive without re-generating the system..? >>> > SCSI gets probed at boot time. You might try a > "show device" or "show scsi" at the consol prompt ">>>" > to see if it can see it. > >> What happens when you do a 'SHO DEV MK'? For example: >> >> $ sho dev mk >> >> Device Device Error Volume Free >> Trans >> Mnt >> Name Status Count Label Blocks >> Count >> Cnt >> MONK$MKA500: Online 0 >> $ >> Though the above is a on a PWS 433au running OpenVMS 7.2-1H1 and the >> drive >> is a DEC TLZ06 (4mm DAT). >> >> Zane >> >> > Try this > > run sys$system:sysgen > SYSGEN> autoconf all > > then do the "sho dev mk" again. > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1572 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021210/feda8d54/attachment.bin From jss at subatomix.com Tue Dec 10 12:50:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: The effects of employment Message-ID: <15336835974.20021210125239@subatomix.com> Well, I can officially stop complaining. I've just scored a software engineering position with a local natural gas production company. This will have three effects with respect to the ClassicCmp list: * I will no longer gripe about lack of funds in nearly every post. :-) * My collection will experience growth and an increase in quality, which hopefully will enable me to do things like software and documentation archiving, hardware testing and restoration, and of course, playing with shiny new toys. * You should see me start to offer free stuff to list members soon. Yes, today is a good day. -- Jeffrey Sharp From ernestls at attbi.com Tue Dec 10 12:51:00 2002 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <3DF6210D.2000308@srv.net> Message-ID: <OHENIDDKMMADIAHOLNMCCEDKCOAA.ernestls@attbi.com> I wouldn't normally post this kind of ad here but considering how unique this system is, I thought that some of you might want to know about the auction. It's a non-revision Apple II, serial #2000. It also has the old style toggle switch power supply, and the system works. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2080413427&indexURL=1#eba yphotohosting Ernest From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Dec 10 13:06:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: The effects of employment In-Reply-To: <15336835974.20021210125239@subatomix.com> References: <15336835974.20021210125239@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212101400340.10533-100000@panix3.panix.com> On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > Well, I can officially stop complaining. I've just scored a software > engineering position with a local natural gas production company. This will Prepare for the first real good night's sleep since That Day the HR Dweebs Called You In.... > * You should see me start to offer free stuff to list members soon. Of course, you need someone reliable and discreet to pre-qualify all the Free Stuff... just forward me a list via private e-mail and I'll handle everything for you. I know you'll be quite preoccupied with the New Job and all, and since I'm a self-employed Occasional Consultant, my time is my own, so it's not *that* big of a bother. > > Yes, today is a good day. Sure is. Now, about all that Free Stuff... Cheers John PS: No but really, folks: Congratulations! Whether you're rich or poor, it's nice to have Money! Merry Xms! From ernestls at attbi.com Tue Dec 10 13:06:19 2002 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: The effects of employment In-Reply-To: <15336835974.20021210125239@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <OHENIDDKMMADIAHOLNMCOEDKCOAA.ernestls@attbi.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Jeffrey Sharp > Well, I can officially stop complaining. I've just scored a software > engineering position with a local natural gas production company. > This will > have three effects with respect to the ClassicCmp list: > > * I will no longer gripe about lack of funds in nearly every post. :-) > > * My collection will experience growth and an increase in quality, which > hopefully will enable me to do things like software and documentation > archiving, hardware testing and restoration, and of course, > playing with > shiny new toys. > > * You should see me start to offer free stuff to list members soon. > > Yes, today is a good day. Congratulations! ...and just in time for the Holidays. Relax, and enjoy them now. I'm on the hunt as well. I live in Seattle, and I would assume that about the only place worse than Seattle to be an unemployed IT person is Silicon Valley. E. From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Dec 10 13:20:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: The effects of employment In-Reply-To: <15336835974.20021210125239@subatomix.com> References: <15336835974.20021210125239@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3566.4.20.168.187.1039548111.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Well, I can officially stop complaining. I've just scored a software > engineering position with a local natural gas production company. Congratulations! > * I will no longer gripe about lack of funds in nearly every post. :-) Yes, now you will move to the group that gripes about lack of spare time. :-) From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Dec 10 13:21:01 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: SCSI 9-Track tape under VMS..? Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AFD5@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >With terminators on 1) the 2nd ports of the HP88780B and on the 2nd port of the KZSA I got nuthin' This, I guess, is how it is supposed to be connected. >However, when I pull the terminators from everything, I get: > >>> show scsi >SCSI Adaptor 0 (761300, SCSI ID 7) I assume you don't have the tape set up as ID 7? Things would get pretty upset if you did that! Do you have any other known good SCSI device that you can drop onto the KZQSA (on its own) to see verify that the KZQSA itself is good? A CD-ROM drive would be ideal but even a disk would do. Antonio From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 10 13:48:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: The effects of employment In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212101400340.10533-100000@panix3.panix.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212100350250.1425-100000@siconic.com> On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, John Lawson wrote: > PS: No but really, folks: Congratulations! Whether you're rich or poor, > it's nice to have Money! Merry Xms! Whoever said money can't buy you happiness was probably poor. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Dec 10 14:00:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: One more screwup with the Ace... Message-ID: <001d01c2a087$3a56ee80$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Hi all, Well, it looks like I've finally destroyed the Ace. I've just spent the past hour trying to desolder the dead RAMs and buffers from the Ace's main PCB. Unfortunately it looks like the board was designed to self-destruct when anyone tried to repair it. The pads appear to have been designed to peel off on the application of heat, they're less than 5 mils around the hole (what do you think that means?) and they don't even seem to be through-hole plated. The tin plating was applied straight on top of oxidised copper - I've had to retin some pads and tracks courtesy of that major screwup. In my opinion, the Jupiter Ace is one of the most appallingly-made machines I've ever tried to repair. Heck, the Commodore 64 was bad, but at least the pads were easy enough to desolder. It looks to me like Jupiter Cantab's PCB designer was either *VERY* inexperienced or just wanted to make sure that no-one could fix an Ace if it failed. It's also beginning to look like the ROMs are stuffed, but that shouldn't be too hard to sort out -- I've just bid on some 2532 EPROMs on eBay from someone in Austria. Does anyone know how I could rescue this machine? It looks like the RAMs are definetly fried, along with some of the logic as well. Font RAM and Video RAM are still not being loaded on startup so the output of the video generator is still 100% noise, however it *is* changing when the machine is powered off and then back on again. I'm shotgunning all the RAMs (there's only six of them) and the bus muxes. Has anyone here either repaired one of these machines or got a spare Ace to sell me? I've got a proper PSU now, with only one connector (the jack plug the Ace uses), so I can say with near absolute certainty that the same mistake will not occur again. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From spector at zeitgeist.com Tue Dec 10 14:04:07 2002 From: spector at zeitgeist.com (David HM Spector) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: SCSI 9-Track tape under VMS..? In-Reply-To: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AFD5@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> Message-ID: <E06851DA-0C7A-11D7-863C-000393853BFC@zeitgeist.com> I finally pulled the tape drive off of the vax and connected it to a Linux machine... which can't see it. I suspect either an internal cabling problem (loose cable, etc) or bad SCSI card on the drive. I found an old exebyte drive which I mounted in a case and threw on the VAX and it saw it. Arrrgggh. Of course if I had tried some relatively known working device 1st time I would have saved myself a few hours of wasted time. But, of course, where would be the fun in that..? :-) David On Tuesday, Dec 10, 2002, at 14:22 America/New_York, Antonio Carlini wrote: >> With terminators on 1) the 2nd ports of the HP88780B and on the 2nd > port of the KZSA I got nuthin' > > This, I guess, is how it is supposed to be connected. > >> However, when I pull the terminators from everything, I get: >>>>> show scsi >> SCSI Adaptor 0 (761300, SCSI ID 7) > > I assume you don't have the tape set up as ID 7? > Things would get pretty upset if you did that! > > Do you have any other known good SCSI device that > you can drop onto the KZQSA (on its own) to see > verify that the KZQSA itself is good? A CD-ROM drive > would be ideal but even a disk would do. > > Antonio From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Dec 10 14:16:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: One more screwup with the Ace... In-Reply-To: <001d01c2a087$3a56ee80$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <00c301c2a089$519fdc30$020010ac@k4jcw> Phil, Most likely the board was designed for low cost. If there is no soldermask, larger annular rings increase the chance of solder bridges during manufacturing. But more likely, smaller annular rings were used to reduce the amount of solder needed, thus lowering the cost. I don't believe they Ace nor the ZX81 nor any of that genre of computers was designed to be repaired. They were designed to be produced as cheaply as possible. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Philip Pemberton Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 15:04 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: One more screwup with the Ace... Hi all, Well, it looks like I've finally destroyed the Ace. I've just spent the past hour trying to desolder the dead RAMs and buffers from the Ace's main PCB. Unfortunately it looks like the board was designed to self-destruct when anyone tried to repair it. The pads appear to have been designed to peel off on the application of heat, they're less than 5 mils around the hole (what do you think that means?) and they don't even seem to be through-hole plated. The tin plating was applied straight on top of oxidised copper - I've had to retin some pads and tracks courtesy of that major screwup. In my opinion, the Jupiter Ace is one of the most appallingly-made machines I've ever tried to repair. Heck, the Commodore 64 was bad, but at least the pads were easy enough to desolder. It looks to me like Jupiter Cantab's PCB designer was either *VERY* inexperienced or just wanted to make sure that no-one could fix an Ace if it failed. It's also beginning to look like the ROMs are stuffed, but that shouldn't be too hard to sort out -- I've just bid on some 2532 EPROMs on eBay from someone in Austria. Does anyone know how I could rescue this machine? It looks like the RAMs are definetly fried, along with some of the logic as well. Font RAM and Video RAM are still not being loaded on startup so the output of the video generator is still 100% noise, however it *is* changing when the machine is powered off and then back on again. I'm shotgunning all the RAMs (there's only six of them) and the bus muxes. Has anyone here either repaired one of these machines or got a spare Ace to sell me? I've got a proper PSU now, with only one connector (the jack plug the Ace uses), so I can say with near absolute certainty that the same mistake will not occur again. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Dec 10 14:47:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: SCSI 9-Track tape under VMS..? In-Reply-To: <E06851DA-0C7A-11D7-863C-000393853BFC@zeitgeist.com> References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AFD5@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> <E06851DA-0C7A-11D7-863C-000393853BFC@zeitgeist.com> Message-ID: <1193.4.20.168.187.1039553383.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I finally pulled the tape drive off of the vax and connected it to a > Linux machine... which can't see it. I suspect either an internal > cabling problem (loose cable, etc) or bad SCSI card on the drive. Are you sure that you don't have the version of the 88780 tape drive with differential SCSI? That was common on server systems. Note that this is not LVD (low voltage differential), it's the original style differential, which is now sometimes referred to as HVD. It used to be possible to buy the single-ended SCSI board for that drive from HP, but not any more. :-( If you look around, you can sometimes find PCI differential SCSI host adapters cheap. From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Dec 10 15:02:01 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: The effects of employment In-Reply-To: <15336835974.20021210125239@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0212101309590.13274-100000@grumble.deltasoft.com> Congrats Jeff! g. On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > Well, I can officially stop complaining. I've just scored a software > engineering position with a local natural gas production company. This will > have three effects with respect to the ClassicCmp list: > > * I will no longer gripe about lack of funds in nearly every post. :-) > > * My collection will experience growth and an increase in quality, which > hopefully will enable me to do things like software and documentation > archiving, hardware testing and restoration, and of course, playing with > shiny new toys. > > * You should see me start to offer free stuff to list members soon. > > Yes, today is a good day. > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp > > From ernestls at attbi.com Tue Dec 10 15:07:01 2002 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: The effects of employment In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212100350250.1425-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <OHENIDDKMMADIAHOLNMCEEDMCOAA.ernestls@attbi.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Sellam Ismail > Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 3:51 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: The effects of employment > > > On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, John Lawson wrote: > > > PS: No but really, folks: Congratulations! Whether you're rich or poor, > > it's nice to have Money! Merry Xms! > > Whoever said money can't buy you happiness was probably poor. Er, you mean rich, right? From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 10 15:18:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:28 2005 Subject: One more screwup with the Ace... In-Reply-To: <00c301c2a089$519fdc30$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <20021210212005.76205.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> > Hi all, > Well, it looks like I've finally destroyed the Ace... Ow! Your problems were probably caused by aggressive engineering cost reduction. "Quality" boards are made of fiberglass and resin, have plated vias and a solder mask. Many low-end products are missing one or more of those features (mind you, a $100 TV set counts as low end in terms of board quality). If you were using a temperature controlled iron, one way to minimize thermal damage is to have the iron barely above the melting point of your solder. If your iron is a fixed temp, you can select a lighter element (fewer watts to pump into the board). Practice can also help. I remember obliterating boards as a kid. My Quest Elf has a number of scorch marks and blobby solder joints. I keep thinking about scanning it for an example, then cleaning it off and repopulating it with decent sockets. If I ever finish the external front panel and the computer doesn't come right up, that's probably what I'll do - deconstruct and reconstruct with better parts. Since you are past that point, if you can't smooth things out by hand, they do make replacement eyes and lands and traces, but they aren't cheap. Another Ace might be cheaper. > I've just bid on some 2532 EPROMs on eBay from someone in Austria. If you don't win the bid, I can probably help you with a couple of 2532s. If you get me the contents as a binary or Intel Hex file, I can program them first. B.G. Micro has 2532s for $2.00 each or 10 for $17.50. > Does anyone know how I could rescue this machine? It looks like the > RAMs are definetly fried, along with some of the logic as well... If it were mine and I didn't have a logic probe or oscilloscope and had to resort to "shotgunning" RAMs, I'd at least put machined-pin sockets in every place I pulled a chip from. It's not an awesome price, it's kindof OK, but B.G. Micro has a variety of sized (14-pin to 40-pin for 3/$1.00). At least then, you won't be lifting any _more_ pads. If visual access is an issue (i.e., you want to see under the socket to ensure there isn't any hidden damage), you can install machined pin strips or break individual pins from the sockets and solder them in without a plastic frame. It's harder to insert an IC, but you can see the board. > Has anyone here either repaired one of these machines or got a spare > Ace to sell me? Sorry. Never seen an Ace, just the ZX-80 and ZX-81. From all the discussion, I'm getting a good picture in my head (and I even toyed with the idea of building one from scratch), but for now, I have to focus on getting my SBC6120 built. Cheers, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Dec 10 15:22:01 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: One more screwup with the Ace... In-Reply-To: "Philip Pemberton" <philpem@dsl.pipex.com> "One more screwup with the Ace..." (Dec 10, 20:03) References: <001d01c2a087$3a56ee80$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <10212102124.ZM9276@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 10, 20:03, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Hi all, > Well, it looks like I've finally destroyed the Ace. I've just spent the > past hour trying to desolder the dead RAMs and buffers from the Ace's main > PCB. Unfortunately it looks like the board was designed to self-destruct > when anyone tried to repair it. > The pads appear to have been designed to peel off on the application of > heat, they're less than 5 mils around the hole (what do you think that > means?) and they don't even seem to be through-hole plated. The tin plating > was applied straight on top of oxidised copper - I've had to retin some pads > and tracks courtesy of that major screwup. Machines like that were designed to keep the cost as low as possible, and repairability often wasn't a consideration. On things like that, I often don't even try to rescue any suspect ICs or even passives, just cut them off close to the PCB with a very fine pair of sidecutters, and then desolder the stub of pin. > Does anyone know how I could rescue this machine? It looks like the RAMs > are definetly fried, along with some of the logic as well. Font RAM and > Video RAM are still not being loaded on startup so the output of the video > generator is still 100% noise, however it *is* changing when the machine is > powered off and then back on again. I'm shotgunning all the RAMs (there's > only six of them) and the bus muxes. > Has anyone here either repaired one of these machines or got a spare Ace > to sell me? I've got a proper PSU now, with only one connector (the jack > plug the Ace uses), so I can say with near absolute certainty that the same > mistake will not occur again. First thing is to make sure anything you remove is replaced with a good quality socket, and if necessary that you can repair any damaged tracks with stripped wirewrap wire or similar. How adept are you with a soldering iron? I used to do this sort of thing for a living, and I'm not too far away if you want someone to take a look at it. Did you get the 2114s and Z80 I sent you? They should have arrived this morning. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Dec 10 15:29:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: The effects of employment In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212100350250.1425-100000@siconic.com> References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212100350250.1425-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <a05111b01ba1c0b393975@[192.168.1.101]> > > PS: No but really, folks: Congratulations! Whether you're rich or poor, >> it's nice to have Money! Merry Xms! > >Whoever said money can't buy you happiness was probably poor. Maybe they didn't know about ebay? From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Dec 10 15:34:01 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: The effects of employment In-Reply-To: <OHENIDDKMMADIAHOLNMCEEDMCOAA.ernestls@attbi.com> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0212101341010.13274-100000@grumble.deltasoft.com> > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Sellam Ismail > > Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 3:51 AM > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: The effects of employment > > > > > > On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, John Lawson wrote: > > > > > PS: No but really, folks: Congratulations! Whether you're rich or poor, > > > it's nice to have Money! Merry Xms! > > > > Whoever said money can't buy you happiness was probably poor. > > Er, you mean rich, right? I doubt it. The rich may not think you can buy happiness, but they know for a fact that you can _rent_ some amazing things. :) g. From jss at subatomix.com Tue Dec 10 15:35:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: The effects of employment In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212100350250.1425-100000@siconic.com> References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212100350250.1425-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <95346735979.20021210153739@subatomix.com> On Tuesday, December 10, 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Whoever said money can't buy you happiness was probably poor. I have a saying, though I'm sure someone already thought of it: "Money can't buy you everything, but it can come pretty damn close." -- Jeffrey Sharp From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Dec 10 15:36:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: One more screwup with the Ace... Message-ID: <200212102137.NAA29127@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Phil If you know a part is bad and you want to remove it from the bard with the least damage, clip the leads close to the part and then remove the leads, individually, with a pair of tweezers/iron. Always use a temperature controlled iron set to the point that a clean tip will melt the solder of the joint in about 10 to 15 seconds. Even really cheap PC board can be reworked if one uses some care in methods. I don't recommend using solder wick. Many do well with it but it tends to get stuck to traces if not overly heated and will lift traces. If you use a solder sucker, don't use a small one. Use one with as big a bore and stroke as you can find. Dwight >From: "Philip Pemberton" <philpem@dsl.pipex.com> >Hi all, > Well, it looks like I've finally destroyed the Ace. I've just spent the >past hour trying to desolder the dead RAMs and buffers from the Ace's main >PCB. Unfortunately it looks like the board was designed to self-destruct >when anyone tried to repair it. > The pads appear to have been designed to peel off on the application of >heat, they're less than 5 mils around the hole (what do you think that >means?) and they don't even seem to be through-hole plated. The tin plating >was applied straight on top of oxidised copper - I've had to retin some pads >and tracks courtesy of that major screwup. > In my opinion, the Jupiter Ace is one of the most appallingly-made >machines I've ever tried to repair. Heck, the Commodore 64 was bad, but at >least the pads were easy enough to desolder. It looks to me like Jupiter >Cantab's PCB designer was either *VERY* inexperienced or just wanted to make >sure that no-one could fix an Ace if it failed. It's also beginning to look >like the ROMs are stuffed, but that shouldn't be too hard to sort out -- >I've just bid on some 2532 EPROMs on eBay from someone in Austria. > Does anyone know how I could rescue this machine? It looks like the RAMs >are definetly fried, along with some of the logic as well. Font RAM and >Video RAM are still not being loaded on startup so the output of the video >generator is still 100% noise, however it *is* changing when the machine is >powered off and then back on again. I'm shotgunning all the RAMs (there's >only six of them) and the bus muxes. > Has anyone here either repaired one of these machines or got a spare Ace >to sell me? I've got a proper PSU now, with only one connector (the jack >plug the Ace uses), so I can say with near absolute certainty that the same >mistake will not occur again. > >Later. >-- >Phil. >philpem@dsl.pipex.com >http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ > > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 10 15:36:13 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: altitude, humidity and cooling (was Re: VAX wanted in Bristol, UK) In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20021209234923.00d2394c@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <20021210213801.44000.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Carlos Murillo <carlos_murillo@epm.net.co> wrote: > At 01:30 PM 12/9/02 -0800, I wrote: > > At Pole... drives die all the time... massively dry air holds a lot > > less heat... computers and hard disks frequently die from overheating > > at the South Pole - the air is thinner and drier > > and can't conduct as much heat away from CPUs and drives. > > Quite frankly, to have a system die of heat exhaustion _there_ seems > ludicrous. As long as the assembly can withstand a steep temperature > gradient, there's lots of cooling available, with temperature low > enough to compensate for the decrease in specific heat many times, > right? Right, except that these systems are indoors in an office environment and there isn't an adequate temperature gradient. Indoors, the temps range from 68F to 75F, depending on the nature of the building and its physical location (which affects winds and external cooling, thus affecting humans who affect internal heating ;-) The AC for the network operations center (NOC) at McMurdo is a glycol loop, a glycol pump and two radiators, one in an airhandler, one outside in a shelter. The outside temp fluctuates between a high of 40F for a few days in the summer, to a typical -20F to -30F temp in the winter and on spring/fall nights. On those occasions when the heat exchanger fails (typically due to the fan breaker tripping), they do open windows and cool with outside air. The room, though, is nominally kept between 60F and 65F. Not much of a gradient to the inside of a PC or server case. (and this is somewhat on-topic because the room I'm describing was built in the 1970s and houses (housed?) a pair of MicroVAXen and some older Sun SPARC hardware). Pole is worse than McMurdo - at least Mactown is on the coast and at "sea level" (minus the effects the rotation of the Earth has on the troposphere which is, ISTR, about 3-5% lower pressure there). I've seen guys put multiple fans in computer cases used for data collection to keep the operating temps down to a sane level, and these are old enough machines that the CPUs don't come from the factory with fans on them (486-SX/25, etc.) You'd think things would be cool enough at the South Pole, but there's some non-intuitive forces at work. -ethan http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Dec 10 15:52:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: The effects of employment In-Reply-To: <no.id> from "Eric Smith" at Dec 10, 2002 11:21:51 AM Message-ID: <200212102154.gBALs7t01498@shell1.aracnet.com> > > * I will no longer gripe about lack of funds in nearly every post. :-) > > Yes, now you will move to the group that gripes about lack of spare > time. :-) Allow me to welcome you to that group :^) Zane From marvin at rain.org Tue Dec 10 16:15:01 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: One more screwup with the Ace... References: <20021210212005.76205.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3DF667E7.8B9047EE@rain.org> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > Hi all, > > Well, it looks like I've finally destroyed the Ace... > > > Your problems were probably caused by aggressive engineering cost > reduction. "Quality" boards are made of fiberglass and resin, have > plated vias and a solder mask. Many low-end products are missing > one or more of those features (mind you, a $100 TV set counts as low > end in terms of board quality). I once made the mistake of saying to a Motorola Plant manager something similar to what you just said (this plant made single sided boards on CEM material.) His comment was that they made high quality inexpensive (not cheap) boards. Also, plated thru vias guarantee nothing; it is the amount of copper plating in the holes that make the difference. Less than 1 mil of copper plating can result in blowholes and unsatisfactory reflowing of the tin-lead into solder. Etc, etc, etc :). BTW, the circuit boards for the Atari 2600 were made of CEM and were laid up 8 boards per panel. The process control was the same as higher cost boards. From donm at cts.com Tue Dec 10 16:23:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: The effects of employment In-Reply-To: <95346735979.20021210153739@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0212101424120.86850-100000@crash.cts.com> On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Tuesday, December 10, 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Whoever said money can't buy you happiness was probably poor. > > I have a saying, though I'm sure someone already thought of it: > > "Money can't buy you everything, but it can come pretty damn close." ...and for all else, there's MASTERCARD. - don > -- > Jeffrey Sharp > > From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Dec 10 16:33:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: One more screwup with the Ace... References: <001d01c2a087$3a56ee80$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <10212102124.ZM9276@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <004801c2a09c$8a370880$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > On things like that, I often don't even try to rescue any suspect ICs > or even passives, just cut them off close to the PCB with a very fine > pair of sidecutters, and then desolder the stub of pin. That's what I've been doing. I've been desoldering using "Soder-Wick" - I got a small reel of it for 90p. > First thing is to make sure anything you remove is replaced with a > good quality socket I didn't have any decent sockets - I had to cut two Maplin "economy DIL sockets" down to size, fitted two RAMs, then ran out of sockets. In order to limit damage to the ICs due to heat, I gave them a quick blast of freeze spray and then soldered them. > and if necessary that you can repair any damaged > tracks with stripped wirewrap wire or similar. None of the tracks are stuffed, the pads seem to have come up because the solder wick stuck to them and pulled them up, even though the wick was still heated. > How adept are you > with a soldering iron? Six years of experience, three with a Maplin elcheapo, three with my Antex XS25 (25 watt). > Did you get the 2114s and Z80 I sent you? They should have arrived > this morning. Yup, they arrived this morning. Fitted them and the random, static garbage has been replaced with scrolling garbage. Grr... I replaced four out of the five 74LS367s too - no dice. The bloody thing is still being stubborn. As for your offer to have a look at it, I might just take you up on it. I've got a schematic for it (drawn by Bodo Wenzel) for a clone of the Ace, some bits are different, 90% of it is the same though. Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 10 16:52:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: One more screwup with the Ace... In-Reply-To: <200212102137.NAA29127@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20021210225350.22387.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwightk.elvey@amd.com> wrote: > ...don't use a small one. > Use one with as big a bore and stroke as you can find. Words to live by. :-) I nominate this for the "easiest Classiccmp post to mis-quote out of context" award. -ethan P.S. - I agree... solder sucker rather than solder wick and sacrifice the part to save the board. It's especially important with boards with ground and power planes - it takes a lot more effort to remove the power and ground pins there... I tend to float them out rather than pull the solder out and bare the pin as I do with signal pins. P.P.S - I also like to cut the lead as close to the body of the chip so I can use the right-angle bend at the top of the leg for traction. This obviously doesn't work for side-brazed parts, but those are frequently socketed to begin with. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Dec 10 17:02:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: One more screwup with the Ace... Message-ID: <200212102304.PAA29153@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Philip Pemberton" <philpem@dsl.pipex.com> > >pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: >> On things like that, I often don't even try to rescue any suspect ICs >> or even passives, just cut them off close to the PCB with a very fine >> pair of sidecutters, and then desolder the stub of pin. >That's what I've been doing. I've been desoldering using "Soder-Wick" - I >got a small reel of it for 90p. > >> First thing is to make sure anything you remove is replaced with a >> good quality socket >I didn't have any decent sockets - I had to cut two Maplin "economy DIL >sockets" down to size, fitted two RAMs, then ran out of sockets. In order to >limit damage to the ICs due to heat, I gave them a quick blast of freeze >spray and then soldered them. Hi REAL BAD IDEA! This is just about the worst thing you can do. Most silicon IC's can take a lot of heat applied slowly. Thermal shock making a large range of temperature change is real rough on them and more likely to fracture the IC or cause the lead seals to fail. > >> and if necessary that you can repair any damaged >> tracks with stripped wirewrap wire or similar. >None of the tracks are stuffed, the pads seem to have come up because the >solder wick stuck to them and pulled them up, even though the wick was still >heated. This is why I never recommend using solder wick unless you are vary experienced at desoldering. You need to know the right size and the right touch of applying the heat with this material. I do 95% of my desoldering with a sucker and only the last special cases with wick. I have three different sizes of wick to select for each job. I use different heat ranges as well. > >> How adept are you >> with a soldering iron? >Six years of experience, three with a Maplin elcheapo, three with my Antex >XS25 (25 watt). Rework is not the same as soldering. Rework is a special talent. When you can remove a 25 pin D PC type D connector from a 4 layer board with half of the pins connect to large internal traces, without damaging to board, you can consider yourself a reworker. You absolutely shouldn't be using an non-temperature controlled iron for rework. Dwight > >> Did you get the 2114s and Z80 I sent you? They should have arrived >> this morning. >Yup, they arrived this morning. Fitted them and the random, static garbage >has been replaced with scrolling garbage. Grr... >I replaced four out of the five 74LS367s too - no dice. The bloody thing is >still being stubborn. > >As for your offer to have a look at it, I might just take you up on it. I've >got a schematic for it (drawn by Bodo Wenzel) for a clone of the Ace, some >bits are different, 90% of it is the same though. > >Thanks. >-- >Phil. >philpem@dsl.pipex.com >http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ > > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Dec 10 17:04:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: One more screwup with the Ace... References: <00c301c2a089$519fdc30$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <3DF672DC.2070801@jetnet.ab.ca> J.C.Wren wrote: > Phil, > > Most likely the board was designed for low cost. If there is no > soldermask, larger annular rings increase the chance of solder bridges > during manufacturing. But more likely, smaller annular rings were used to > reduce the amount of solder needed, thus lowering the cost. I don't believe > they Ace nor the ZX81 nor any of that genre of computers was designed to be > repaired. They were designed to be produced as cheaply as possible. Or any computers made since then! Cheap Cheap Cheap.! From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Dec 10 17:11:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: One more screwup with the Ace... References: <200212102137.NAA29127@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <006401c2a0a1$e1100ee0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > If you use a solder sucker, don't use a small one. > Use one with as big a bore and stroke as you can find. Hmm... I've got an Antex (www.antex.com) "PRO-DESOLD" black desolder pump in my toolbox. I take it that would be better than a roll of Soder-Wick (sic)? Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Dec 10 17:13:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: help: HP r/332 controller Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021210181935.52bfee42@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I just found one of these in a load of scrap. It appears to be similar to the HP 9000 200 and 300 series computers and uses the same DIO cards but also has a built in CRT and floppy and hard disk drives. It's designed to be rack mounted and it's supposed to have a fold down keybaord but the keyboard is missing on this one. Fortunately the unit uses a HP-HIL keyboard socket so I can plus in a regular HP_HIL keyboard. Has anyone here used one of these? Are they supposed to show a list of installed memory and interfaces when they power up like the 9000 200s do? I'm not getting any display on the CRT but I can see the sweep and retraace lines on the CRT when I turn the brightness all the way up so the CRT is working. The hard drive light illuminates for several seconds then the floppy drive accesses for a split second so the system seems to be working but still don't get any display on the screen. Joe From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Dec 10 17:59:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: One more screwup with the Ace... In-Reply-To: <006401c2a0a1$e1100ee0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <00c601c2a0a8$6c957800$020010ac@k4jcw> Phil, The problem is that the solder wick acts as a large non-uniform heat sink. Even though parts of the wick appear to be molten, other parts, particularly those in contact with some thermal mass or surface area may not be. So the part touching the pad is below melting temperature, and the part where the iron is actually touching is molten. And the wick is a most excellent heat sink. Lots of surface area, and radiating out into the air. It sounds like possibly your tip temperature is too low, or the iron is too low a wattage to be effective with wick. I've been soldering/desoldering through-hole and SMD for many years, both in a hobby and a production environment, so I've been through everything you've had happen to you, at one time or another. All copper material on the board is bound to the underlying material (fiberglass, whatever) with an adhesive. These adhesives have a rated delamination temperature, at which point they let go pretty quickly. I used to know the temperatures of typical PC board material by heart, now I have to look it up. Really good irons (like Metcals), offer 3 tip temperature ranges. A temperature above typical 63/37 solder melting points but below the delamination point, a temperature slightly above the delamination point, and stupidly hot. Never really had an application for the last one. Many times people get away with using too hot an iron for a couple reason: They don't put any (or much) mechanical pressure on the pad, so even if the adhesive goes above the delamination point, the pad won't shift. However, you can often see signs of beginning liftage, usually expressed as ripples in the pad surface as the adhesive starts going through phase change. Another is that there is sufficient thermal mass in the joint to keep the pad temperature below the delamination point. That more or less amounts to luck, but if you keep the iron applied, the pad will eventually lift as everything reaches a steady state that's above the delamination temperature. Properly selected tips are above the solder melting temperature and below the delamination temperature. In fact, with a good well regulated iron, you can leave it applied to the joint all day and never damage the board (cook the chip by exceeding junction temperature, sure). Solder wick is the gift of the gods for SMD work, but usually not the right thing for through-hole. For desoldering, there are several basic technologies. Wick, solder bulb, solder pump, and electrical pumps. Wick is pretty obvious. Wick is good at removing gross amounts of solder, but without adequate temperature control and application, you can lift pads. Solder bulbs are junk. In fact, they're more useful for blowing air *though* a hole than sucking solder. Solder pumps are spring actuated suckers that are triggered by pressing a release button. Generally effective, assuming the tip is in decent shape, and the plunger has dried out. These need to be cleaned and lubricated (use vaseline) periodically, or they don't suck well. A good indication is if you fire it against your moistened thumb, and you can still feel suction a few sections later, it's a good one. I haven't seen any without ESD tips lately, but you *really* want that. A plunger moving through a plastic body can build up a helluva charge on a plastic tip. A good tip doesn't remove that possibility, but instead keeps the pump the same potential as the board. Electical pumps (for lack of a better name), are devices like Pace machines that have a soldering iron with a hollow tip and a vaccuum pump and a filter system. Removed solder is tpyically pulled in a glass tube, and the tube periocally emptied. Pace units, in particular, are lousy at temperature control. Also, using an improperly sized or conditioned tip can result in rapid board destruction. It is impossible to adequately preach on the subject of decent irons. Many people get through life with a poor soldering iron, and just write the occasionally lifted pad or damaged board to lack of experience. Many people also think, for example, that a Weller WTC-201 iron is a decent iron. The reality is it's shit for temperature control. That whole magnetic tip temperature control thing under goes 100 degree temperature swings in either direction. Put a pyrometer on one and start using it, you'll be appalled. In my book, there is only one iron to own, and it's a Metcal MX-500 series. I'm sure there are some others out there claim (and do) match the stability and usability of a Metcal, but they're few and far between, and I don't have any experience with them. A Metcal is unlike anything you'll ever use. Tip temperature stability under any load is less than 10 degrees. The tip heats up in about 10 seconds, cools down in about 20. There are dozens of tips, fine enough to solder < 25 mil leads to 15 mil pads, and large enough to solder a stack of 5 pennies to a piece of 2oz copperclad board. They're not cheap, but had can be had for good prices on eBay. However, quality is rarely ever low cost, and with Weller, Hakko, and others, you get what you pay for. A usable iron. You get a Metcal, you'll look for things to solder just to use it. Anyway, I digress. There are some basic core hints for soldering and desoldering. Never use the tip as a pry bar. This should be obvious why, but beyond simply distorting the tip from it's natural shape, it breaks the cladding on the tip, causing improper wetting and non-uniform heat distribution. The tip will develop cold and hot spots, worse than usual (even the best tips on the best irons seem to have "sweet spots"). Don't "scrub" the tip for the same reason. Most tip wear is a result of scraping the pin against pins. Unavoidable now and then, but you should bring the tip to the joint, let heat briefly (usually until you see the existing solder go shiny), apply solder, pull the tip away. Use a clean tip, sponge it frequently, keep it tinned. Cheap tips are sometimes subject to thermal shock when you wipe them on the sponge. This will result in premature failure of the tip, as the cladding weakens. Usually when you find a tip where the cladding has started flaking, this is the core reason. Tips from manufacturers like Weller, Hakko, Metcal, etc won't do this. The ones at K-Mart are more likely to. However, tips are replacable for a reason. A clean tip with a medium life is more important than a crappy tip with a long life. And, incidently, I have some 4 and 5 year old tips that I use on a regular basis that are still in good shape. I have a couple I keep reserved for abuse. When a tip starts to fail, REPLACE IT. Life is too short to make lousy connections and get in a bad mood because a number of joints are turning out poorly. Just toss the damn thing, it's only $10 or so. Flux is important. When building up a bare board, I usually polish it first on a piece of 20lb paper, or a paper towel. This will knock the gross oxides without tearing up the soldermasks (and cheap board houses often use a pretty thin mask). There are dozens of choices in solder these days. Rosin core, water soluble, no-kleen, organic fluxes, 63/37, 62/37/1 (1% silver), wire or paste, etc. For most through-hole work, I like a rosin core .035 diameter 63/37. It's cheap and reliable, but requires a defluxing agent to clean. This stuff is getting expensive, and since CFCs where outlawed, most of the new defluxers are crap compared to the good stuff. However, rosin is a very good flux. Most of the newer water soluble fluxes just aren't the same. They work, but their not as effective, particularly if you're using components that haven't been environmentally sealed. A flux pen helps immensely. For SMD (most of my stuff these days), I use a 62/37/1 water soluble flux, and clean the board with a toothbrush and hot water. Using a liquid flux (from a flux pen or a jug) helps a lot with both contaminants and to help prevent bridging on fine legged SMD components. If you use a lot of flux, you have to let the joint boil clean before bringing in the solder. Otherwise you get some funky looking questionable joints. No-kleen solders are usually for production environments, and they suck. They leave a sticky residue on the board that's non-corrosive. However, you always wash your hands after handling such a board. Probably nobody has really read this far, and I can't think of anything else at the moment, and my fingers are tired. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Philip Pemberton Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 18:14 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: One more screwup with the Ace... Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > If you use a solder sucker, don't use a small one. > Use one with as big a bore and stroke as you can find. Hmm... I've got an Antex (www.antex.com) "PRO-DESOLD" black desolder pump in my toolbox. I take it that would be better than a roll of Soder-Wick (sic)? Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From mbg at TheWorld.com Tue Dec 10 18:00:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: The effects of employment Message-ID: <200212110002.TAA77307180@shell.TheWorld.com> >> > * I will no longer gripe about lack of funds in nearly every post. >:-) >> >> Yes, now you will move to the group that gripes about lack of spare >> time. :-) > >Allow me to welcome you to that group :^) While I, unfortunately, will soon join the group of those with worries about money and future because after 25 years with DEC/Compaq/HP, the company has decided to continue without me... I will sonn be a statistic in the on-going merger work of HP and Compaq... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ Soon to be ex-HP. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Dec 10 18:34:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: One more screwup with the Ace... In-Reply-To: "Philip Pemberton" <philpem@dsl.pipex.com> "Re: One more screwup with the Ace..." (Dec 10, 22:36) References: <001d01c2a087$3a56ee80$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <10212102124.ZM9276@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <004801c2a09c$8a370880$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <10212110032.ZM876@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 10, 22:36, Philip Pemberton wrote: > pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > > On things like that, I often don't even try to rescue any suspect ICs > > or even passives, just cut them off close to the PCB with a very fine > > pair of sidecutters, and then desolder the stub of pin. > That's what I've been doing. I've been desoldering using "Soder-Wick" - I > got a small reel of it for 90p. You'd be much better off using a nice BIG solder sucker. Wick is really good for removing excess solder, say from a "generously" reworked SMT device, but not ideal for common-or-garden ICs. > In order to > limit damage to the ICs due to heat, I gave them a quick blast of freeze > spray and then soldered them. I hate to say it, but that's not a good idea. IC's don't mind heat if it's evenly applied (think infra-red reflow oven) but thermal shock can break seals etc. > > How adept are you > > with a soldering iron? > Six years of experience, three with a Maplin elcheapo, three with my Antex > XS25 (25 watt). Well, at least it's not one of those nasty Antex 15W irons, but I prefer a 50W temperature-controlled iron. The risk with a small iron is that the tip cools down as you put it on the work, and the lower-wattage irons can't heat it up very quickly again. Result is that the joint isn't really hot enough. > > Did you get the 2114s and Z80 I sent you? They should have arrived > > this morning. > Yup, they arrived this morning. Fitted them and the random, static garbage > has been replaced with scrolling garbage. Grr... Well, it's *some* improvement :-) > As for your offer to have a look at it, I might just take you up on it. I've > got a schematic for it (drawn by Bodo Wenzel) for a clone of the Ace, some > bits are different, 90% of it is the same though. OK. I'll mail you my address and phone number off-list, and maybe we can get together. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Dec 10 18:35:33 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: One more screwup with the Ace... In-Reply-To: "Philip Pemberton" <philpem@dsl.pipex.com> "Re: One more screwup with the Ace..." (Dec 10, 23:14) References: <200212102137.NAA29127@clulw009.amd.com> <006401c2a0a1$e1100ee0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <10212110032.ZM873@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 10, 23:14, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > If you use a solder sucker, don't use a small one. > > Use one with as big a bore and stroke as you can find. > Hmm... I've got an Antex (www.antex.com) "PRO-DESOLD" black desolder pump in > my toolbox. I take it that would be better than a roll of Soder-Wick (sic)? Depends how big it is; the bigger the better (within reason). Practise on a board you can afford to live without, and see. The syringe-style sucker I keep in my kit in the car, and the one I keep most handy on the bench, are about 1" diameter and about 9" long. I have a much smaller one somewhere, but it's so long since I last used it, I couldn't tell you where. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From doug_jackson at citadel.com.au Tue Dec 10 18:36:01 2002 From: doug_jackson at citadel.com.au (Doug Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: One more screwup with the Ace... Message-ID: <B131307C5DEED41180B000105A8532D78B673F@CARMEN> I totally agree. Remember the concept of the $99 computer. You dont sell a computer for $99 if it costs you $150. I suspect that commercially, the cost breakdown probably went something like this: $99.00 Final RRP (Margin + Freight + Wholesale price) $30.00 Sales Margin (30%) $ 5.00 Distribution freight $65.00 Wholesale price $65.00 Wholesale price (Margin + freight + Sinclair sell price) $ 9.75 Wholesale Margin (15%) $ 2.00 Wholesale freight $53.25 Sinclair Sell Price $53.25 Sinclair Sell price (Manufacture cost + R&D Recovery + Sinclair Margin) $10.65 Sinclair Margin (20%) $10.65 R&D Recovery (20%) $31.95 Manufacture cost $31.95 Manufacture Cost (System + Plugpack + Lead + Manual Printing) $16.00 Component Parts $ 1.35 Membrane Keyboard $ 3.00 Modulator $ 1.60 Case $ 3.00 Plug Pack $ 1.00 Video Cables $ 1.00 PCB $ 2.00 Assembly Charges $ 2.00 Manual Printing $ 1.00 Packaging (foam etc) These figures have been fudged to fit, but you can see that at $99 there is basically *no* rooe to provide any type of quality. Just my thoughts, don't flame me too hard! Doug Jackson Director, Managed Security Services Citadel Securix +61 (0)2 6290 9011 (Ph) +61 (0)2 6262 6152 (Fax) +61 (0)414 986 878 (Mobile) Web: <www.citadel.com.au> Offices in Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra, Hong Kong, Boston > -----Original Message----- > From: J.C.Wren [mailto:jcwren@jcwren.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 7:19 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: One more screwup with the Ace... > > > Phil, > > Most likely the board was designed for low cost. If there is no > soldermask, larger annular rings increase the chance of solder bridges > during manufacturing. But more likely, smaller annular rings > were used to > reduce the amount of solder needed, thus lowering the cost. > I don't believe > they Ace nor the ZX81 nor any of that genre of computers was > designed to be > repaired. They were designed to be produced as cheaply as possible. > > --John > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Philip Pemberton Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 15:04 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: One more screwup with the Ace... Hi all, Well, it looks like I've finally destroyed the Ace. I've just spent the past hour trying to desolder the dead RAMs and buffers from the Ace's main PCB. Unfortunately it looks like the board was designed to self-destruct when anyone tried to repair it. The pads appear to have been designed to peel off on the application of heat, they're less than 5 mils around the hole (what do you think that means?) and they don't even seem to be through-hole plated. The tin plating was applied straight on top of oxidised copper - I've had to retin some pads and tracks courtesy of that major screwup. In my opinion, the Jupiter Ace is one of the most appallingly-made machines I've ever tried to repair. Heck, the Commodore 64 was bad, but at least the pads were easy enough to desolder. It looks to me like Jupiter Cantab's PCB designer was either *VERY* inexperienced or just wanted to make sure that no-one could fix an Ace if it failed. It's also beginning to look like the ROMs are stuffed, but that shouldn't be too hard to sort out -- I've just bid on some 2532 EPROMs on eBay from someone in Austria. Does anyone know how I could rescue this machine? It looks like the RAMs are definetly fried, along with some of the logic as well. Font RAM and Video RAM are still not being loaded on startup so the output of the video generator is still 100% noise, however it *is* changing when the machine is powered off and then back on again. I'm shotgunning all the RAMs (there's only six of them) and the bus muxes. Has anyone here either repaired one of these machines or got a spare Ace to sell me? I've got a proper PSU now, with only one connector (the jack plug the Ace uses), so I can say with near absolute certainty that the same mistake will not occur again. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. http://www.citadel.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021210/c269640a/attachment.html From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Dec 10 18:38:01 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: The effects of employment In-Reply-To: <200212110002.TAA77307180@shell.TheWorld.com> References: <200212110002.TAA77307180@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <20021211010750.GC61038@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Megan, from writings of Tue, Dec 10, 2002 at 07:02:31PM -0500: > While I, unfortunately, will soon join the group of those with worries > about money and future because after 25 years with DEC/Compaq/HP, the > company has decided to continue without me... > > I will sonn be a statistic in the on-going merger work of HP and > Compaq... Megan, I'm very sorry to hear that. This is just yet more proof that many companies, particularly those in the computer field, do not value knowledgeable employees with many years of experience. Sorry to hear that you'll be joining those of us who've been discarded by the computer field. If this is of any consolation: the computer field in the U.S. is a sinking ship anyway, so, perhaps it's better to have to walk the plank, or jump overboard, and have a chance of surviving, than to go down with the ship and drown. Best of luck with other endeavors! Years ago, I knew that when the Palmer idiot began selling out to Micro$oft, that the end of DEC was on the horizon. Alas, HP (Hopeless-Products?) is no longer the respectable company that it once was, and it no longer produces the high-quality test equipment, computer equipment and calculators, that it once did. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 10 18:55:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: A project for Tony... In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212092230530.7807-100000@haiku.jarai.net> from "Brian Chase" at Dec 9, 2 10:35:10 pm Message-ID: <m18LuaO-000IzYC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 848 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021210/55410284/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 10 18:56:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: RL02 Disk Cartridge Problems - why that particular pack is junk In-Reply-To: <1039482846.13266.40.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> from "Christopher McNabb" at Dec 9, 2 08:14:06 pm Message-ID: <m18LuPQ-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4068 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021210/49426584/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 10 18:56:21 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: One more screwup with the Ace... In-Reply-To: <001d01c2a087$3a56ee80$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> from "Philip Pemberton" at Dec 10, 2 08:03:37 pm Message-ID: <m18LuzP-000IzoC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1985 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021210/8a0dd4ba/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 10 18:56:35 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: Can you fix a C-64, or know someone who can? In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212091751340.32035-100000@siconic.com> from "Sellam Ismail" at Dec 9, 2 05:53:50 pm Message-ID: <m18LuUK-000IzSC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1421 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021210/4cf5a73e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 10 18:56:49 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: Tubes in computers - numbers, please In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021209212901.10404D-100000@osfn.org> from "William Donzelli" at Dec 9, 2 09:40:10 pm Message-ID: <m18LuX4-000IzUC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 458 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021210/6371bdd9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 10 18:59:29 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: One more screwup with the Ace... In-Reply-To: <004801c2a09c$8a370880$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> from "Philip Pemberton" at Dec 10, 2 10:36:11 pm Message-ID: <m18Lv6K-000IzpC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1977 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021210/e7b94343/attachment.ksh From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Tue Dec 10 19:04:01 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: altitude, humidity and cooling (was Re: VAX wanted in Bristol, UK) In-Reply-To: <20021210213801.44000.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3.0.2.32.20021209234923.00d2394c@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021210200104.00e6945c@pop1.epm.net.co> At 01:38 PM 12/10/02 -0800, you wrote: >Right, except that these systems are indoors in an office environment >and there isn't an adequate temperature gradient. I know, but it doesn't seem impossible to have them enclosed with circulation from the outside (this is what I was thinking about). Much easier than pressurized chambers and the like. Of course, monitors, mice, keyboards would not get this treatment... >You'd think things would be cool enough at the South Pole, but there's >some non-intuitive forces at work. It is actually pretty intuitive with a minimal knowledge of physics. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Dec 10 19:05:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: A project for Tony... In-Reply-To: <m18LuaO-000IzYC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212101904390.17527-100000@george.home.org> On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Here's a special project for you, Tony: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2079939801 > Since I don't currently have a couple of years free, could someone please > describe this lot. I assume from the description below that it's a Qbus > PDP11 or MicroVAx in some terrible state... BA23, looks like somebody drove a bobtail (lorry, to you) over it. The card cage is crushed. I'd be literally afraid to approach it with a power cord, much less hit the switch. I didn't even read on to find out what used to live in it... Doc From bqt at update.uu.se Tue Dec 10 19:27:00 2002 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: RL02 Disk Cartridge Problems - why that particular pack is junk In-Reply-To: <20021211005600.4988.52383.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0212110207060.15307-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE> Jumping in a bit late... On Tue, 10 Dec 2002 ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: [description of RL02 physical format deleted...] > > There is also a "guard track" on each side of the data track,whose > > purpose is to cause the head to go back to the center of the data track > > should it drift. > > Is there? I was under the impression there were guard bands on the very > inside and very outside of the disk (used when the heads are loading, > etc). Bot not between each pair of data tracks. I think you are correct, and that the original poster misunderstood the manual. (Actually, I'm pretty sure you are correct :-) > There are, however, offset (from the track centre line -- in fact I think > they're halfway between 2 adjacent tracks) signals in the header area. > > > Something like : > > ===== ==== > ---DATA---- -----Next data----- > ==== ==== > -- Data----- ----Yet more data-- > ===== ==== > > Where the ==== are the servo signals. Huh? No. Actually, the data track itself is used as the servo signal. The head centers in on the track by centering on where the amplitude is strongest. > > When a drive is told to seek to a particular sector, it reads the > > factory written sector header to determine if it is the correct sector. > > If the drive can not find this info quickly enough, it will fault. > > Sorry, but no. The drive doesn't check the headers at all. I've been > through the schematics and there's nothing that will look at digital > data on the disk. It will fault if it can't find the servo signals, though. Actually, the *drive* just moves a number of tracks back and forth. (And seek is just to a relative track). When you progam a driver to seek to a track, you check the current track, calculate the track delta, and request that of the drive. When the drive report ready you once again check the track to see which one you actually are on. Hopefully it is the right, but if not, do another seek. However, when you *read* a sector, the *controller* checks that you read the right sector by checking every sector header that the head passes over, and when the right one comes, the data is transferred (the same applies for write). If the right sector don't show up, it will fail, but I don't think it will fault. > > It seems to me that to correctly format one of these disks after a bulk > > erasure, you would have to be able to do the following: > > 1. Correctly position the head - probably the easiest part > > I would think that generating the right pattern of bits for the header > was the easy part. That's just (relatively slow) digital electronics. Correctly position the heads when you don't have a servo track, and the heads are actuated by voice coils, means you cannot position the heads at all. So that is a big hurdle. Find another type of drive for formatting, that is item #1. > > 2. Write the correct sector header, including addressing Which no RL01/RL02 controller can do. There is no function to write sector headers. So, in addition to finding another drive to be able to position the heads, you need another controller, to be able to write the data. > > 3. Write the guard tracks ( I bet this is the most difficult) > > If you mean the 'servo bursts', well, you need to be able to accurately > position the heads on half tack spacing. Actually writing the signals is > easy. Yes, once the above conditions have been fulfilled, actually writing is the easy part. > > 5. Create the "Bad Block" file at the end of the disk. > > > > So, looking at the above, I can see where it would very difficult to > > format one of these guys using a stock RL01/RL02 drive, even modified. > > IMHO the really hard part is going to be positioning the head accurately > at half track spacings... You don't have any half-track spacings. However, you also need to write the guard bands, which are outside the normal data area. But if you happen to have a drive you can move the heads about with absolute precision (well, pretty good precision anyway), and being able to write headers, I doubt writing the guard bands would be that hard. You just have to know how the guard bands look physically. The drive recognoze them, and immediately move back to the data area if they show up. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Tue Dec 10 19:35:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: RL02 Disk Cartridge Problems - why that particular pack is junk In-Reply-To: <m18LuPQ-000IzIC@p850ug1> References: <m18LuPQ-000IzIC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <1039570612.23245.9.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> On Tue, 2002-12-10 at 19:07, Tony Duell wrote: > > Is there? I was under the impression there were guard bands on the very > inside and very outside of the disk (used when the heads are loading, > etc). Bot not between each pair of data tracks. > The manual I'm looking at says the guard tracks are on either side of the data area. I read this to be the sector's data area, but I can see where it could also be the disk's data area. > > > > When a drive is told to seek to a particular sector, it reads the > > factory written sector header to determine if it is the correct sector. > > If the drive can not find this info quickly enough, it will fault. > > Sorry, but no. The drive doesn't check the headers at all. I've been > through the schematics and there's nothing that will look at digital > data on the disk. It will fault if it can't find the servo signals, though. > According to the manual I have, CSR bits 10 and 12 will be set if the drive does not locate the correct sector within 200ms. This would seem to imply that the header IS read and checked. If not by the drive itself, then by the controller. Perhaps I should speak of the Drive/Controller system? At any rate, I don't believe it is worth the effort to attempt to reformat a bulk erased disk. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From ian_primus at yahoo.com Tue Dec 10 19:39:00 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: A project for Tony... In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212101904390.17527-100000@george.home.org> Message-ID: <9EFEEFEA-0CA9-11D7-8F04-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Tuesday, December 10, 2002, at 08:07 PM, Doc Shipley wrote: > BA23, looks like somebody drove a bobtail (lorry, to you) over it. > The card cage is crushed. I'd be literally afraid to approach it with > a power cord, much less hit the switch. > > I didn't even read on to find out what used to live in it... > Unfortunately, the "Hey, I know, lets plug it in and see if it works!" mindset is pretty common. I heard of someone that spilled something into a television set (it was not plugged in), then they plugged the set in and turned it on to test it (big bang). I ALWAYS take a look inside old hardware that I come across before plugging it in, and have found a couple things that would have become problems if it had been powered up in that state, such as screws laying on boards, parts completely loose in the case, bad wiring jobs, leaky capacitors, etc. I learned this lesson the hard way very shortly after I started collecting. Someone gave me a rather dusty XT clone, and I hooked it up without looking inside first. I flipped the Big Red Switch, and nothing happened. A few seconds later, the magic smoke escaped. Apparently something had been wedged into the back of the machine through an empty card slot, such as a screwdriver or something, because there were a lot of deep scratches on the motherboard and a nearby serial card, several small capacitors on the motherboard had been smashed, as well as a small logic chip. The magic smoke had come from the wiring leading from the power supply to the motherboard! Two wires had heated up so much the insulation had melted away. Amazingly enough, the power supply still worked fine after I patched up the wires, and so did the drives and non-gouged cards. Fortunately, this was a rather non interesting computer, and XT clones are very common, so no real loss here, but I did learn an important lesson in plugging in old hardware without checking it first! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From jplist at kiwigeek.com Tue Dec 10 19:55:00 2002 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: Fixing a C= 64, was: Can you fix a C64... In-Reply-To: <m18LuUK-000IzSC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.20.0212101951200.376-100000@rosetta.binhost.com> On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Chip swapping can only be of use if you _know_ all the chips you're > > > swapping in are good.. > > Sure, but chances are it will work. > > I've not repaired many C64s, but I was under the impression that the > 82S100 PLA was a common failure. If that's failed in both the 'to be > repaired' machine and the 'parts' machine, you're not going to get anywhere. The PLA is the most common chip to fail on a Commodore 64. The most common thing to fail in the whole C64 setup is the black power bricks, which are generally considered a piece of garbage. I'm currently in the process of repairing a SX-64 from a donor C64, and have managed to get the machine "working" - but there's a break in the Luma/Chroma lines to the CRT pack. However the first issue WAS a bad PLA. Resources I used, aside from a couple C= geeks I know: ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/cbm In particular, in my case: ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/cbm/documents/repair/troubleshooting-c64.txt funet.fi has schematics, software, ROM dumps, everything. JP From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Tue Dec 10 20:15:01 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: A project for Tony... References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212101904390.17527-100000@george.home.org> Message-ID: <3DF6A048.3F571498@compsys.to> >Doc Shipley wrote: > > On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Here's a special project for you, Tony: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2079939801 > > Since I don't currently have a couple of years free, could someone please > > describe this lot. I assume from the description below that it's a Qbus > > PDP11 or MicroVAx in some terrible state... > BA23, looks like somebody drove a bobtail (lorry, to you) over it. > The card cage is crushed. I'd be literally afraid to approach it with > a power cord, much less hit the switch. Jerome Fine replies: Looks more like at least a semi-trailer or perhaps a tank drove over it. I have enough BA23 boxes and they could easily have a truck drive over without almost any damage at all. Most likely, something VERY HEAVY actually fell on top - maybe a heavy rack of some kind that crushed the starboard side (right hand side when standing at the back of the BA23 box) initially and then continued to around the middle of the BA23 at about 1/3 of the way from the stern. There seems to be only 5 boards including an: M8189-Bx 11/23 PLUS M7551-AP Probably memory MR 377 something ???? M7957 Is this a DZV11? M8639 Probably RQDX1 since the other photos seem to show and RD51/RX50 The cabinet kits show the two DB25s for the CPU 4 DB25s for the DZV11?? 2 other cabinet kits for the third board. I can't see how the boards (all quads) escaped being damaged from both the crushing and the power on? Since I have more empty (without even a power supply) BA23 boxes than I can use, there seems NO point in attempting to repair the backplane/card cage. The RD51 might have escaped damage due to the vertical bulkhead between the drive and the crushed area near the stern. Any one want to pick up a couple of empty BA23 boxes in Toronto? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From norm-classiccmp at docnorm.com Tue Dec 10 20:29:00 2002 From: norm-classiccmp at docnorm.com (norm-classiccmp@docnorm.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: DisplayWrite, or DisplayWriter In-Reply-To: <10212110032.ZM876@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212101820440.19978-100000@goNORM.com> I have a friend who's very interested in old IBM word processing systems. Specifically he'd like to find a DisplayWriter, or, failing that, find DisplayWrite software version 3 or earlier. Does anyone have this or know where he could find it? Thanks, Norm From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Dec 10 20:53:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: One more screwup with the Ace... Message-ID: <200212110254.SAA29236@clulw009.amd.com> Wow! I think we've all had a wack at poor Phil. Hi Phil I think the most important thing is to save the board over saving parts. If you think you've lifted a trace that is a thru hole( and these are two sided boards ), take a piece of wire wrap wire through the hole and solder it to the topside of the board and it goes through the hole. Don't solder it in the hole. Make sure that the component lead will fit through. When you put the part in, fold the piece of wire down so even if you heat it enough to melt the solder on the top, it won't rotate. If the top trace is clearly visible with the lead in there, you can solder the lead from the top. Use an Ohm meter to verify that you've made connections to all the right places. Dwight From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Dec 10 21:06:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: The effects of employment In-Reply-To: <200212110002.TAA77307180@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212101900260.9554-100000@haiku.jarai.net> On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, Megan wrote: > While I, unfortunately, will soon join the group of those with worries > about money and future because after 25 years with DEC/Compaq/HP, the > company has decided to continue without me... > > I will sonn be a statistic in the on-going merger work of HP and > Compaq... DAMN THEM, DAMN THEM TO HELL!! Best of luck on the job hunt. I hope you've enough savings set aside to weather the rough times. -brian. (Who had his bout with unemployment in early 2001). From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 10 22:16:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: The effects of employment In-Reply-To: <OHENIDDKMMADIAHOLNMCEEDMCOAA.ernestls@attbi.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212101218060.2652-100000@siconic.com> On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, Ernest wrote: > > On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, John Lawson wrote: > > > > > PS: No but really, folks: Congratulations! Whether you're rich or poor, > > > it's nice to have Money! Merry Xms! > > > > Whoever said money can't buy you happiness was probably poor. > > Er, you mean rich, right? No, I meant hairy. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 10 22:18:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: The effects of employment In-Reply-To: <95346735979.20021210153739@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212101219080.2652-100000@siconic.com> On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Tuesday, December 10, 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Whoever said money can't buy you happiness was probably poor. > > I have a saying, though I'm sure someone already thought of it: > > "Money can't buy you everything, but it can come pretty damn close." I guess that depends on the size of your bank account, eh? (Bill Gates would probably be best suited to test the theory behind your philosophy.) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Dec 10 23:37:01 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: Daynafile on generic SCSI card In-Reply-To: <m18LuUK-000IzSC@p850ug1> References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212091751340.32035-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021210213720.02f7f630@pop-server.socal.rr.com> I was just looking at an email from a fellow with a Daynafile, a few drivers and docs (waiting to be scanned), and he told me at least one person told him the Daynafile worked without drivers in OS X using a generic scsi card. Anybody else try one on a scsi card? From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Dec 10 23:47:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: Fixing a C= 64, was: Can you fix a C64... In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.20.0212101951200.376-100000@rosetta.binhost.com> References: <m18LuUK-000IzSC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <3DF67E0C.13933.671B568@localhost> I've often seen references to the failure of the Commodore black power bricks, and fortunately haven't had that experience. Were the tan ones more or less satisfactory ? Were the tan ones referred to as the "superbrick" ? What about the 2(4?) pin Vic20 ones ? Thanks, Lawrence On 10 Dec 2002, , JP Hindin wrote: > > > On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Chip swapping can only be of use if you _know_ all the chips > > > > you're swapping in are good.. > > > Sure, but chances are it will work. > > > > I've not repaired many C64s, but I was under the impression that the > > 82S100 PLA was a common failure. If that's failed in both the 'to be > > repaired' machine and the 'parts' machine, you're not going to get > > anywhere. > > The PLA is the most common chip to fail on a Commodore 64. > The most common thing to fail in the whole C64 setup is the black power > bricks, which are generally considered a piece of garbage. > > I'm currently in the process of repairing a SX-64 from a donor C64, and > have managed to get the machine "working" - but there's a break in the > Luma/Chroma lines to the CRT pack. However the first issue WAS a bad > PLA. > > Resources I used, aside from a couple C= geeks I know: > ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/cbm > In particular, in my case: > ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/cbm/documents/repair/troubleshooting-c64.txt > > funet.fi has schematics, software, ROM dumps, everything. > > JP > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Dec 10 23:49:56 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: DisplayWrite, or DisplayWriter In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212101820440.19978-100000@goNORM.com> References: <10212110032.ZM876@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3DF67E0C.1899.671B513@localhost> I've offered numerous times to the list a DisplayWriter keyboard, free for shipping, without any takers. Of course this is useless without the rest of it. But it could possibly attract its mother in someone else's hands. It is interesting even as an artifact. I just refuse to toss it. Lawrence On 10 Dec 2002, , norm-classiccmp@docnorm.com wrote: > I have a friend who's very interested in old IBM word processing > systems. Specifically he'd like to find a DisplayWriter, or, failing > that, find DisplayWrite software version 3 or earlier. Does anyone have > this or know where he could find it? > > Thanks, > > Norm > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From glenslick at hotmail.com Wed Dec 11 00:16:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:29 2005 Subject: Acquired a PDP11/44, but missing M7095 Message-ID: <F148jyxEFutyAm6Iwj5000022bf@hotmail.com> I recently acquired a surplus PDP11/44 (my first real PDP11) and it appears that it is in reasonably good condition, but after opening it up to check out what modules were installed I realized that it is missing the M7095 control logic module, one of the 5 core modules that make up CPU. Anyone know where I can find one of these at a reasonable price, or have a good spare that they care part with? Also, the keyswitch for the front panel is missing. Anyone know where I can find one of those, or is there an easy way to bypass the switch? On the plus side a CMD CDU-720/TM SCSI controller was installed so if I get the CPU running I hope it won't be too hard to connect it to a SCSI hard drive and tape drive. _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Dec 11 00:56:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:30 2005 Subject: Acquired a PDP11/44, but missing M7095 In-Reply-To: <F148jyxEFutyAm6Iwj5000022bf@hotmail.com> References: <F148jyxEFutyAm6Iwj5000022bf@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212110148440.10037-100000@panix2.panix.com> On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, Glen S wrote: > I recently acquired a surplus PDP11/44 (my first real PDP11) and it appears > that it is in reasonably good condition, but after opening it up to check > out what modules were installed I realized that it is missing the M7095 > control logic module, one of the 5 core modules that make up CPU. Anyone > know where I can find one of these at a reasonable price, or have a good > spare that they care part with? Congratulations! Join the Club.... ;} A lot of DEC Stuff is listed here ( they also sell on eBay ). www.jtcomputer.com shows a M7095 - $25.00 > > Also, the keyswitch for the front panel is missing. Anyone know where I can > find one of those, or is there an easy way to bypass the switch? > Any barrel key will work... one of mine has flutes, but the other ( a red plastic one marked 'anti static' has no flutes at all. > On the plus side a CMD CDU-720/TM SCSI controller was installed so if I get > the CPU running I hope it won't be too hard to connect it to a SCSI hard > drive and tape drive. > Depends on the OS you use, and how you generate the new system. Did you get any other peripherals, especially the disk subsystems that were once attached? Is the console serial cable present? ( a longish cable terminating in a DB25). Any other I/O cards? Have you powered the machine on yet? Be careful of the power supply - they're REALLY deadly with the covers off. ALso be sure the fan deck is running. Oh yeah - did you get any Doc with the system... or can you get a copy of the PDP-11/44 System Technical Manual and the System User's Guide... these will be most helpful getting the beast to wake up. Keep us informed of your progress... there are several /44s up and running among us. Cheers John From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Dec 11 01:46:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:30 2005 Subject: HN462532G - same as TMS2532? Message-ID: <001901c2a0e9$c1582a40$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Hi, I've just bid on some Hitachi HN462532G EPROMs on Ebay - item numbers 1943283712 1943523215 and 1943750626 (I've bid on the first two - feel free to outbid me, just leave me with at least one pack of three). Can someone please confirm that these are pin-compatible with the TI TMS2532? I found a pinout on R. Steve Walz's webpage (www.armory.com/~rstevew), but I'd like confirmation from someone who's attempted to use the Hitachi chips as replacements for the TIs. Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 11 01:53:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:30 2005 Subject: Acquired a PDP11/44, but missing M7095 In-Reply-To: <F148jyxEFutyAm6Iwj5000022bf@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <v04020a03ba1c9f5f49fb@[192.168.1.5]> >Also, the keyswitch for the front panel is missing. Anyone know where I can >find one of those, or is there an easy way to bypass the switch? ACE XX2247, I've heard you should be able to get these from any locksmith. I've got one key to go between my PDP-8/e, PDP-8/m, and PDP-11/44. >On the plus side a CMD CDU-720/TM SCSI controller was installed so if I get >the CPU running I hope it won't be too hard to connect it to a SCSI hard >drive and tape drive. Sweet! Any OS that supports MSCP disks and TMSCP tapes should work with this. BTW, for RT-11 you need a minimum of V5.4 for tape support, I'm not sure what the minimum versions for other OS's are (I think RSTS/E is V9.x). Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From glenslick at hotmail.com Wed Dec 11 01:59:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:30 2005 Subject: Acquired a PDP11/44, but missing M7095 Message-ID: <F40j91nYBihaMv1UQFO000089b5@hotmail.com> A google search for M7095 turned up www.jtcomputer.com so I already sent an email earlier tonight inquiring about a M7095. Are they a decent place to do business with? I just tried an old barrel key from a Kryptonite lock and it does work (a little rough to insert & remove) so that takes care of that problem. I didn't get any disk subsystems. The rules of the surplus department where I aquired the CPU dictate that disk drives be destroyed before systems are made available to the public. The I/O cards that were installed were an M7521 DELUA ethernet, CMD CDU-720/TM SCSI, M7819 DZ11-A octal serial, Digital Pathways TCU-150 clock module?, M7258 LP11, Datasystems DLP-11. The CPU came in a rack that is about three times the height of the the PDP11/44 and about 1.25x as wide. It's a Digital rack, but I didn't see a model number on the rack. The rack itself really heavy. They used a forklift to load it into my van and I was able to get it out of the van myself with the careful application of gravity, but there was no way I would have been able to get it into the house. I did download the User's Guide / System Technical Manuals which came in handy when I got stuck trying to figure out how to release the rack slide lock mechanism. Now I've got the CPU out of the rack and in the house were I can work on it. The rack did have bulkhead connectors and cables for the M7521 DELUA ethernet (AUI) and the console (DB25). The rack had a couple of other connectors I didn't recognize, I think they must have been cabled up to the M7819 DZ11-A and M7258 LP11. There is no breakout pod for the M7819 DZ11-A. The DLP-11 had a very long LPT ribbon cable attached. It might have originally been attached to a huge Genicom? printer that was also available at the surplus place, but I passed on that at the time. I inspected the insides before thinking about trying to power up the CPU and when I realized the M7095 was missing (I wonder why it was removed?) I didn't go any further. Also, while the power supply is configured for 120VAC it has the high current (20A) plug with one of the lugs rotated 90 degress and I don't think I have any compatible outlets in my house so that is yet another challege to solve. If I do get the CPU running, then I'll have to figure out what software I should try to run on it. I don't really know much about PDP11 software yet. -Glen >From: John Lawson <jpl15@panix.com> >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: Acquired a PDP11/44, but missing M7095 >Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 01:58:00 -0500 (EST) > > > >On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, Glen S wrote: > > > I recently acquired a surplus PDP11/44 (my first real PDP11) and it >appears > > that it is in reasonably good condition, but after opening it up to >check > > out what modules were installed I realized that it is missing the M7095 > > control logic module, one of the 5 core modules that make up CPU. >Anyone > > know where I can find one of these at a reasonable price, or have a good > > spare that they care part with? > > Congratulations! Join the Club.... ;} > > A lot of DEC Stuff is listed here ( they also sell on eBay ). > > www.jtcomputer.com shows a M7095 - $25.00 > > > > > > Also, the keyswitch for the front panel is missing. Anyone know where I >can > > find one of those, or is there an easy way to bypass the switch? > > > > Any barrel key will work... one of mine has flutes, but the other ( a >red plastic one marked 'anti static' has no flutes at all. > > > > On the plus side a CMD CDU-720/TM SCSI controller was installed so if I >get > > the CPU running I hope it won't be too hard to connect it to a SCSI hard > > drive and tape drive. > > > > Depends on the OS you use, and how you generate the new system. > > Did you get any other peripherals, especially the disk subsystems that >were once attached? Is the console serial cable present? ( a longish >cable terminating in a DB25). Any other I/O cards? Have you powered the >machine on yet? Be careful of the power supply - they're REALLY deadly >with the covers off. ALso be sure the fan deck is running. > > Oh yeah - did you get any Doc with the system... or can you get a copy >of the PDP-11/44 System Technical Manual and the System User's Guide... >these will be most helpful getting the beast to wake up. > > Keep us informed of your progress... there are several /44s up and >running among us. > > Cheers > >John _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Dec 11 02:11:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:30 2005 Subject: Fixing a C= 64, was: Can you fix a C64... References: <m18LuUK-000IzSC@p850ug1> <3DF67E0C.13933.671B568@localhost> Message-ID: <3DF700AE.45E29538@ccp.com> Lawrence Walker wrote: > > I've often seen references to the failure of the Commodore black > power bricks, and fortunately haven't had that experience. Were the > tan ones more or less satisfactory ? Were the tan ones referred to as > the "superbrick" ? What about the 2(4?) pin Vic20 ones ? > > Thanks, Lawrence From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Dec 11 02:17:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:30 2005 Subject: DisplayWrite, or DisplayWriter In-Reply-To: <3DF67E0C.1899.671B513@localhost> References: <10212110032.ZM876@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3DF67E0C.1899.671B513@localhost> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212110221000.1321-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > I've offered numerous times to the list a DisplayWriter keyboard, free > for shipping, without any takers. Of course this is useless without the > rest of it. But it could possibly attract its mother in someone else's > hands. It is interesting even as an artifact. I just refuse to toss it. I have the dual 8" disk drive, a printer, and a full Textpak set, but so far, it hasn't attracted the rest of the system... I *may* have a keyboard too, but I don't remember for sure. -Toth From at258 at osfn.org Wed Dec 11 07:26:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:30 2005 Subject: DisplayWrite, or DisplayWriter In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212101820440.19978-100000@goNORM.com> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021211082737.24956A-100000@osfn.org> We might have a spare one. I'm not sure about the printer, though. On Tue, 10 Dec 2002 norm-classiccmp@docnorm.com wrote: > I have a friend who's very interested in old IBM word processing systems. > Specifically he'd like to find a DisplayWriter, or, failing that, find > DisplayWrite software version 3 or earlier. Does anyone have this or know > where he could find it? > > Thanks, > > Norm > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Dec 11 08:09:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:30 2005 Subject: Catweasel on Mac OS X? (was Re: Catweasel Floppy Read/Write Tools, version 3.0) In-Reply-To: <5319FAFC-0AC0-11D7-9179-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> from Sark at "Dec 8, 2 10:18:37 am" Message-ID: <200212111420.GAA28684@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I've been contemplating getting one of the PCI catweasel cards, and the > website says they will work in a Mac, but will it work under Mac OS X? I talked to Jens about this, and he says driver software for OS X is in the works. He has no plans to support OS 9 at this time. I don't know the details about the implementation beyond that. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I think you underestimate the sneakiness." -------------------------------- From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 11 11:00:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:30 2005 Subject: Can you fix a C-64, or know someone who can? In-Reply-To: <m18LuUK-000IzSC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212110100520.4644-100000@siconic.com> On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Chip swapping can only be of use if you _know_ all the chips you're > > > swapping in are good.. > > > > Sure, but chances are it will work. > > I've not repaired many C64s, but I was under the impression that the > 82S100 PLA was a common failure. If that's failed in both the 'to be > repaired' machine and the 'parts' machine, you're not going to get anywhere. Sure, but as I said, and as I will qualify here, chances are probably more likely that it will work than not. > Time : It's a hobby, right. Who cares how long it takes Some people would rather play than work. > Patience : There's always time to bodge it again, there's never time to > do it right, or something like that.... One thing I've learnt time and > again in classing <anything> repair is that rushing in will often cause > more problems than it solves. I may spend _months_ just examining a > device before even thinking about repairing it. Tony, it's a Commodore 64 we're talking about. Why must you always tilt toward the extreme? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Dec 11 11:28:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:30 2005 Subject: Can you fix a C-64, or know someone who can? References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212110100520.4644-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <3DF775CB.1080102@jetnet.ab.ca> Sellam Ismail wrote: >>Patience : There's always time to bodge it again, there's never time to >>do it right, or something like that.... One thing I've learnt time and >>again in classing <anything> repair is that rushing in will often cause >>more problems than it solves. I may spend _months_ just examining a >>device before even thinking about repairing it. > Tony, it's a Commodore 64 we're talking about. Why must you always tilt > toward the extreme? > Well the C64 was state of the art at one time. :) This brings up a good point ... how long can one expect to have the older computers running in the future. 20 years 30 years 50 years? Ben. From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Dec 11 11:52:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:30 2005 Subject: Acquired a PDP11/44, but missing M7095 In-Reply-To: <F40j91nYBihaMv1UQFO000089b5@hotmail.com> References: <F40j91nYBihaMv1UQFO000089b5@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212111219001.2015-100000@panix1.panix.com> On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Glen S wrote: > A google search for M7095 turned up www.jtcomputer.com so I already sent an > email earlier tonight inquiring about a M7095. Are they a decent place to > do business with? I personally dunno yet - one of my two /44s has a bad data paths card in the CPU, and I was going to call them, but haven't yet. Any other ListMembers done any business with J. T. Computers? for DEC stuff? > > > I didn't get any disk subsystems. The rules of the surplus department where > I aquired the CPU dictate that disk drives be destroyed before systems are > made available to the public. Sigh. Generally there's no *real* reason for this... just the "fix everything with a hammer" solution. Too bad... > > The I/O cards that were installed were an M7521 DELUA ethernet, CMD > CDU-720/TM SCSI, M7819 DZ11-A octal serial, Digital Pathways TCU-150 clock > module?, M7258 LP11, Datasystems DLP-11. > The Peripherals Handbook (I have the 1981 version) shows a bunch of different LP11 systems, and most of them are big clunky line printers that would typically be used in a large multi-user machine. Most of them come with that 30 meter I/O cable. BTW - how many slots / backplanes are curently installed? How many free slots? How many BUs Grant cards are in open slots? It is also possible that you will need access to the underside of the machine at some time (to attach/remove NPR jumpers) so don't mount it where that would be difficult, until you have the System stable and configured the way you want it. > The CPU came in a rack that is about three times the height of the the > PDP11/44 and about 1.25x as wide. These are rather bulky, unless you have the RL02 drives, or the RL02 and RAxx that came in it. The it's REALLY heavy. The DEC cabs are built very nicely, but it's probably more space-efficient to put the system in a standard 19" rack (DEC H960-type if you can find one). As long as the rack slides can attach at the front and back, any rack will work that will support the eventual weight. Or, if you're going to run the system with small SCSI drives only, then it can just sit on the table. One of mine has a sheet of 1/8" plexiglass instead of the metal top cover, so you can see in when it's running. > degress and I don't think I have any compatible outlets in my house so that > is yet another challege to solve. Not too bad - get a 15A plug from any of the Home DIY places or a big hardware store. Take off the (should be attached with various screws and clamps) existing 20A plug and attach the 15A one. Remember that the the Black (hot) wire goes to the Brass terminal, the White (neut) wire goes to the Silver terminal, and the Green (gnd) wire goes to the green (or black) Ground terminal. Your CPU, configured as it is now, will draw maybe 6 or 7 amps from the wall at 120V, so you're good to go. > > If I do get the CPU running, then I'll have to figure out what software I > should try to run on it. I don't really know much about PDP11 software yet. > I would suggest downloading the Supnik suite of emulators (www.simh.trailing-edge.com) to get a flavor of the various OSes available for the 11/44 series. Once you have the SCSI card running (very fortunate find, BTW!) then you can begin building the system from there, as well as using the simulators to collate files for installation on the /44. Cheers John From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Wed Dec 11 12:18:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:30 2005 Subject: Acquired a PDP11/44, but missing M7095 In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212111219001.2015-100000@panix1.panix.com> References: <F40j91nYBihaMv1UQFO000089b5@hotmail.com> <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212111219001.2015-100000@panix1.panix.com> Message-ID: <20021211182004.GA32041@www.4mcnabb.net> On Wed, Dec 11, 2002 at 12:53:55PM -0500, John Lawson wrote: > > Any other ListMembers done any business with J. T. Computers? for DEC > stuff? > I purchased a couple of RL02K-DC cartridges from them a few months ago for $25.00 each plus shipping. Great service. Fast delivery. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Christopher L McNabb Tel: 540 231 7554 Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@vt.edu Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.205622N 80.414595W GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Dec 11 12:49:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:30 2005 Subject: Catweasel on Mac OS X? (was Re: Catweasel Floppy Read/Write Tools, version 3.0) In-Reply-To: <200212111420.GAA28684@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212111046330.2226-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> > > I've been contemplating getting one of the PCI catweasel cards, and the > > website says they will work in a Mac, but will it work under Mac OS X? > I talked to Jens about this, and he says driver software for OS X is in > the works. He has no plans to support OS 9 at this time. I don't know the > details about the implementation beyond that. Once again, the Catweasel people seemingly do not differentiate between the theoretical and/or hardware capabilities of the board, and what is CURRENTLY supported and/or has software. It COULD (theoretically) work in a Mac, but the software needed to do so does not exist? From glenslick at hotmail.com Wed Dec 11 13:14:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:30 2005 Subject: Acquired a PDP11/44, but missing M7095 Message-ID: <F141wACkWHZqYW8BYXi000008df@hotmail.com> The CPU has the 14 slot main backplane and a 9 slot expansion backplane, connected together with the M9202 jumper card pair. When I first opened the top the M9202 jumper card was plugged into slots 12 and 14 of the main backplane. I assume it is really supposed to plug into slot 14 of the main backplane and slot 1 of the expansion backplane to bridge the two so I moved it there. The M9302 terminator was in slot 9 of the expansion backplane. I believe all row D connectors except the empty 10,11,12 memory slots either had a card installed or had a stubby little card grant card installed. I didn't pull any of them to see what they were (G727, G7270, G7273?) > BTW - how many slots / backplanes are curently installed? How many free >slots? How many BUs Grant cards are in open slots? It is also possible >that you will need access to the underside of the machine at some time (to >attach/remove NPR jumpers) so don't mount it where that would be >difficult, until you have the System stable and configured the way you >want it. > I did pull the power cord panel off of the back of the power supply and it looks pretty easy to swap the existing power cable with one with a more common plug so that's what I'll do after I manage to track down a replacement M7095 and get to the point of trying to power up the CPU. > Not too bad - get a 15A plug from any of the Home DIY places or a big >hardware store. Take off the (should be attached with various screws and >clamps) existing 20A plug and attach the 15A one. Remember that the the >Black (hot) wire goes to the Brass terminal, the White (neut) wire goes to >the Silver terminal, and the Green (gnd) wire goes to the green (or black) >Ground terminal. > > Your CPU, configured as it is now, will draw maybe 6 or 7 amps from the >wall at 120V, so you're good to go. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Dec 11 14:46:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:30 2005 Subject: BBC Acorn Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021211153657.3b8fbd84@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Today I went and picked up another part of my lot of computers that I bought last week. One of the things that I brought home today was a BBC Acorn computer. I'd heard of these but never seen one before. I was pleasantly surprised to find that this one was apparently built for use in the US and that it operates from 110 VAC 50 or 60 Hz and has a US style power plug. Does anyone know how many of these were imported into the US? I'm assuming that since it's set up for US power system that it will also operate on standard US TV and monitor frequencies. Does anyone know for sure. BTW the model number on this one is UNB 09. All the Acorn websites that I've found only list models A, B and B+ so I'm not sure what this is equivelent to. Joe From kevenm at reeltapetransfer.com Wed Dec 11 15:39:11 2002 From: kevenm at reeltapetransfer.com (Keven Miller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:30 2005 Subject: KIMplement for the C64 References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212090233070.30039-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <3DF7B063.D2D937FF@reeltapetransfer.com> > Ok, the actual title is "The Visible Computer: 6502". > This sounds like fun. Is there a place one can find a copy to download? Keven Miller kevenm@reeltapetransfer.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 11 16:33:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:30 2005 Subject: Acquired a PDP11/44, but missing M7095 In-Reply-To: <F40j91nYBihaMv1UQFO000089b5@hotmail.com> from "Glen S" at Dec 11, 2002 12:01:08 AM Message-ID: <200212112235.gBBMZQp30120@shell1.aracnet.com> > didn't go any further. Also, while the power supply is configured for > 120VAC it has the high current (20A) plug with one of the lugs rotated 90 > degress and I don't think I have any compatible outlets in my house so that > is yet another challege to solve. You should, with a properly constructed extension cable, be able to run it off of your dryer circuit. My PDP-11/44 is in my parents Garage, and that's how it gets it's power. That's enough to power the CPU, two RL02's and some other stuff. Looking at the CPU manual you should be able to get a rough idea of how much current the system will really draw. Zane From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 11 16:48:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:30 2005 Subject: RL02 Disk Cartridge Problems - why that particular pack is junk In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0212110207060.15307-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE> from "Johnny Billquist" at Dec 11, 2 02:29:01 am Message-ID: <m18MFcO-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4790 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021211/41c6054b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 11 16:50:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:30 2005 Subject: RL02 Disk Cartridge Problems - why that particular pack is junk In-Reply-To: <1039570612.23245.9.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> from "Christopher McNabb" at Dec 10, 2 08:36:52 pm Message-ID: <m18MFea-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 885 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021211/a8745e0f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 11 16:57:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:30 2005 Subject: Acquired a PDP11/44, but missing M7095 In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212110148440.10037-100000@panix2.panix.com> from "John Lawson" at Dec 11, 2 01:58:00 am Message-ID: <m18MFlP-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1460 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021211/407331d8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 11 17:03:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:30 2005 Subject: Can you fix a C-64, or know someone who can? In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212110100520.4644-100000@siconic.com> from "Sellam Ismail" at Dec 11, 2 01:02:41 am Message-ID: <m18MFrx-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1354 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021211/8001a97c/attachment.ksh From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Dec 11 17:34:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:30 2005 Subject: Acquired a PDP11/44, but missing M7095 In-Reply-To: <200212112235.gBBMZQp30120@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200212112235.gBBMZQp30120@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212111821020.1019-100000@panix3.panix.com> On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > didn't go any further. Also, while the power supply is configured for > > 120VAC it has the high current (20A) plug with one of the lugs rotated 90 > > degress and I don't think I have any compatible outlets in my house so that > > is yet another challege to solve. > > You should, with a properly constructed extension cable, be able to run it > off of your dryer circuit. <sellam_mode> Jesus H Kraist!!!!! Zane, you need to stick with shit you know about, and leave the electrical advice to folks who understand the difference between voltage and current. DO NOT plug your 120v PDP11 into a 220V Dryer Outlet!!!!! DO NOT plug your 120v PDP11 into a 220V Dryer Outlet!!!!! (repeat this until it sinks in!) > My PDP-11/44 is in my parents Garage, and that's > how it gets it's power. That's enough to power the CPU, two RL02's and some > other stuff. Most likely your system is configured for 220VAC operation, by use of the switches on the backs of the various units - or, what is less likely, is that your folks have a 120V dryer... BUT There is a huge difference between 'enough power' and 'correct voltage'!!! and I don't get the sense that your "advice" discriminates between the two.... > Looking at the CPU manual you should be able to get a rough > idea of how much current the system will really draw. > No, not really! Having the docs on all installed cards, and adding up the current draws for +5 and +12 in amps, will give you a rough idea of what the 11/44 mains draw will be, IF you can translate what the power supply will draw from the mains given that particular load. PEOPLE: *Please* check your facts before giving advice about potentially disastrous hook-ups like this!!!! This is a good way to permanently fry someone else's vintage hardware, and it's certainly one of the drawbacks of a forum where people's opinons might be taken as gospel when, in fact, the opinions are worth what one pays for them... DO NOT HOOK YOUR 120V PDP11 INTO A 220V DRYER OUTLET!!!!! </sellam_mode> I'm scared now... John From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Dec 11 17:37:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:30 2005 Subject: Can you fix a C-64, or know someone who can? In-Reply-To: <3DF775CB.1080102@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212111839370.9201-100000@ibm-ps850.purdueriots.com> On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, ben franchuk wrote: > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > >>Patience : There's always time to bodge it again, there's never time to > >>do it right, or something like that.... One thing I've learnt time and > >>again in classing <anything> repair is that rushing in will often cause > >>more problems than it solves. I may spend _months_ just examining a > >>device before even thinking about repairing it. > > Tony, it's a Commodore 64 we're talking about. Why must you always tilt > > toward the extreme? > > > Well the C64 was state of the art at one time. :) Was it when it was released? Considering it's low price, I doubt it could be called 'state of the art'. That's like calling the Walmart $200 PC state of the art when it was introduced (IMHO)... not that I'm saying a C64 is the same quality of a machine, but they seem like comparable circumstances. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 11 17:52:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:30 2005 Subject: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021211153657.3b8fbd84@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Dec 11, 2 03:36:57 pm Message-ID: <m18MGca-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1788 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021211/e6131350/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 11 18:12:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: Acquired a PDP11/44, but missing M7095 In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212111821020.1019-100000@panix3.panix.com> from "John Lawson" at Dec 11, 2 06:36:40 pm Message-ID: <m18MGwC-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2201 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021211/af00edad/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 11 18:14:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: Acquired a PDP11/44, but missing M7095 In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212111821020.1019-100000@panix3.panix.com> from "John Lawson" at Dec 11, 2002 06:36:40 PM Message-ID: <200212120016.gBC0G5402744@shell1.aracnet.com> > Most likely your system is configured for 220VAC operation, by use of > the switches on the backs of the various units - or, what is less likely, > is that your folks have a 120V dryer... No, the system is setup for 120V. I take it, that it is the Washing Machine that uses 120V, since my memory would appear to be faulty. > DO NOT HOOK YOUR 120V PDP11 INTO A 220V DRYER OUTLET!!!!! Agreed, I'm just trying to suggest where to find a circuit that can handle the Amperage. I would never suggest trying to use an incorrect Voltage, and I would hope anyone trying to mess with such a system would know better. > I'm scared now... Be more afraid, I'm an ex-Electrician :^/ Zane From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Dec 11 18:29:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: Acquired a PDP11/44, but missing M7095 Message-ID: <200212120031.QAA29833@clulw009.amd.com> >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk > >> Jesus H Kraist!!!!! Zane, you need to stick with shit you know about, >> and leave the electrical advice to folks who understand the difference >> between voltage and current. >> >> >> DO NOT plug your 120v PDP11 into a 220V Dryer Outlet!!!!! >> >> DO NOT plug your 120v PDP11 into a 220V Dryer Outlet!!!!! > >I will agree with that, _but_ > >(1), IIRC the 11/44 has a handy switch on/in the PSU to select between >115V and 230V input. It would be easy to flip that. > >(2) I was under the impression that US dryers, while using 230V for the >heating elements, used 115V for the timer. And that US domestic mains was >a centre-tapped (The tap being called 'neutral') 230V supply. > >In which case, if there's a neutral feed to the dryer socket which can >carry the same current (20A) as the 2 live feeds (one from each side of >the mains), then you could run the 11/44 between one live feed and >neutral. This probably breaks code in a dozen places, but.... > Hi My drier has a three pin plug, Two hots and one ground, No Neutral! I would assume that if anyhting ran on 115, it would be through a transformer but I think the time is 230V as well. Dwight From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Dec 11 18:35:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: PDP11/44 system mains current Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212111936250.1019-100000@panix3.panix.com> As a working example: I have an 11/44, FPP, 2MW, 2 DZ11, RLV11, Dilog ESDI card. 1 RL02 2 5 1/4" ESDI drives in a PDP11/23 chassis of all things. All this is in an H960 with the usuall DEC power control box... all of it plugs into an outlet in my dini^H^H^H^H machine room, which is on a 15 A breaker... I have yet to amprobe it, but if it's more than 8A at 120 I'd be quite surprised. Now, when I get the Kennedy 9100 and another RL02 hooked up, and an LA36.... sigh. it never ends. Cheers and ZZZZaaaappp! John From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 11 18:43:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: The effects of employment In-Reply-To: <200212110002.TAA77307180@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <20021212004525.97407.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Megan <mbg@theworld.com> wrote: > > >> > * I will no longer gripe about lack of funds in nearly every post. > > >:-) > >> > >> Yes, now you will move to the group that gripes about lack of spare > >> time. :-) > > > >Allow me to welcome you to that group :^) > > While I, unfortunately, will soon join the group of those with worries > about money and future because after 25 years with DEC/Compaq/HP, the > company has decided to continue without me... Sorry to hear that. I, too, am in the same boat - today a bunch of us got the chop from CompuServe/AOL. The fun is that (having been unemployed through the holidays 3 out of the past 4 years) there will be nary a whisper of a hint of an interview until several weeks into January. I'm thinking of a trip to the South Pacific until the job market pulls its head out of the Xmas punchbowl. -ethan P.S. - that's two companies in a row that cancelled the holiday party and had layoffs less than a week later. Nice timing. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From rschaefe at gcfn.org Wed Dec 11 18:43:19 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: Fw: DEC 7000 (AXP) stuff available in Austin, TX Message-ID: <00e801c2a177$e5e7d070$7d00a8c0@george> As seen on the NetBSD port-vax list... Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olof Johansson" <offe> To: <port-vax> Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 1:10 PM Subject: DEC 7000 (AXP) stuff available in Austin, TX > This is somewhat offtopic given the processor architecture, but given that > everything else on these systems seems to be common with VAX: > > I just came back from looking at some of the stuff a local liquidator is > trying to get rid off. It's 3 or 4 DEC7000's (all of them alphas, as far > as I can tell. At least one of them 2-CPU). Each machine has one or two XMI > boxes as well. There's also a crapload of disk arrays, with 1/2/4GB disks. > > Most of this seem to have been clustered (using OpenVMS). I also spotted > a couple of TZ87/86 units. > > I'm not enough of a texan to own a huge truck, and given the sheer size of > all this equipment, there's no way I can even resque some of it for anyone. > But I figured if there's someone else in the area that's interested they > might want to know about it. > > The liquidator can be reached at 'derrick' [less the quotes] > @sanmarcos.net or 512-665-6655. > I have no idea what kind of money he might be looking to get for it. From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Wed Dec 11 18:47:00 2002 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: Tonight: "Hackers" TV show... Message-ID: <3DF7DD4D.55378A10@comcast.net> Some material for your VCR... Tonight, Dec. 11th, at 10 PM Eastern time, the TLC cable channel is doing a show titled "Hackers". Supposedly a look at black- and white-hat hackers, and cyber crime. Hopefgully it'll be interesting... -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Dec 11 18:57:00 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: Tonight: "Hackers" TV show... In-Reply-To: <3DF7DD4D.55378A10@comcast.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021211195844.032f9eb0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that David Woyciesjes may have mentioned these words: >Some material for your VCR... > Tonight, Dec. 11th, at 10 PM Eastern time, the TLC cable channel is >doing a show titled "Hackers". Supposedly a look at black- and white-hat >hackers, and cyber crime. Hopefgully it'll be interesting... Should I tell Uncle Tivo to record it??? I can make SVCDs of the thing, for those who have DVD players that can play a slightly non-standard stream... ;-) Laterz, "Merch" -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From mbg at TheWorld.com Wed Dec 11 19:01:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: The effects of employment Message-ID: <200212120103.UAA80087434@shell.TheWorld.com> Which is interesting because from what I've heard recently, december/january is when to by trying since managers are more likely to get a chance to read resumes... Good luck on your search... Megan From rschaefe at gcfn.org Wed Dec 11 19:12:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: dryers was Re: Acquired a PDP11/44, but missing M7095 References: <200212120031.QAA29833@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <015301c2a17b$ea1d18e0$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwightk.elvey@amd.com> To: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 7:31 PM Subject: Re: Acquired a PDP11/44, but missing M7095 > > Hi > My drier has a three pin plug, Two hots and one ground, > No Neutral! > I would assume that if anyhting ran on 115, it would be > through a transformer but I think the time is 230V as > well. The old style dryer plug was a 30A 240V plug with two hots and a ground. These are only legal now for replacment of existing installations, and I expect that to go away shortly too. The new style is the much-more-safe-yet-oh-so-much-more-expensive-for-some-unknown-reason 5-prong grounded outlet. The old style dryers that I've looked at used 120V timers connected between one hot leg and the chassis ground. It might not live up to the latest and greatest code, but I was never shocked by one. YMMV. > Dwight Bob From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Dec 11 19:16:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: Can you fix a C-64, or know someone who can? In-Reply-To: <3DF775CB.1080102@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212110100520.4644-100000@siconic.com> <3DF775CB.1080102@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <a05111b01ba1d91176afe@[192.168.1.101]> >Well the C64 was state of the art at one time. :) >This brings up a good point ... how long can one expect to >have the older computers running in the future. 20 years >30 years 50 years? Ben. Many things are built to last a VERY long time, go no further than an Apple IIe, after 20 years in a school, and 10 years in a closet almost all boot right up. What I see as the issue is how repairable when the unit eventually fails is it. Take those darn Dallas battery/clock modules for example, bears to fix. From dmabry at mich.com Wed Dec 11 19:43:01 2002 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: Tonight: "Hackers" TV show... References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021211195844.032f9eb0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3DF7EA10.2090902@mich.com> Being the boring, early riser that I am, I won't be able to watch it and I've still not quite mastered the programming of a VCR. An SVCD of the program would be nice. My Pioneer can usually handle SVCDs. If not, the computer will do. What can I do to get on your list? Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that David Woyciesjes may have mentioned these words: > >> Some material for your VCR... >> Tonight, Dec. 11th, at 10 PM Eastern time, the TLC cable >> channel is >> doing a show titled "Hackers". Supposedly a look at black- and white-hat >> hackers, and cyber crime. Hopefgully it'll be interesting... > > > Should I tell Uncle Tivo to record it??? I can make SVCDs of the thing, > for those who have DVD players that can play a slightly non-standard > stream... ;-) > > Laterz, > "Merch" > > > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > zmerch@30below.com > > What do you do when Life gives you lemons, > and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? > > . > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From jss at subatomix.com Wed Dec 11 19:52:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: The effects of employment In-Reply-To: <200212120103.UAA80087434@shell.TheWorld.com> References: <200212120103.UAA80087434@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <102448535840.20021211195423@subatomix.com> I'm extremely saddened to hear about Megan's and Ethan's layoffs. Though my unemployment is ending, I really haven't had a stable, decent-paying job since July of last year. Trust me, I know how you feel, and I know it doesn't feel good. But why would companies pick the holidays of all times to lay people off? It doesn't make sense. This is the time of year I would guess people spend the most money. Why rid people of this resource at the time they need it most? It's just so cruel. Ethan: While a trip to the South Pacific (SoPac? :-)) might be fun, I would suggest you save your money (unless you've got lots of it). I've learned it disappears faster than one would think. On the other hand, a trip elsewhere might be just the thing to counter the emotional stress caused by being let go during the holidays. I give you both my condolences. Good luck. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Dec 11 20:04:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: The effects of employment In-Reply-To: <102448535840.20021211195423@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <004801c2a183$064e55e0$020010ac@k4jcw> Most likely because of end-of-year budgetting. By laying people before the first of the calendar year, they can write off the benefits packages, if I understand this correctly. Of course, my idea of high finance is actually getting my checkbook to balance once a year. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeffrey Sharp Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 20:54 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: The effects of employment I'm extremely saddened to hear about Megan's and Ethan's layoffs. Though my unemployment is ending, I really haven't had a stable, decent-paying job since July of last year. Trust me, I know how you feel, and I know it doesn't feel good. But why would companies pick the holidays of all times to lay people off? It doesn't make sense. This is the time of year I would guess people spend the most money. Why rid people of this resource at the time they need it most? It's just so cruel. Ethan: While a trip to the South Pacific (SoPac? :-)) might be fun, I would suggest you save your money (unless you've got lots of it). I've learned it disappears faster than one would think. On the other hand, a trip elsewhere might be just the thing to counter the emotional stress caused by being let go during the holidays. I give you both my condolences. Good luck. -- Jeffrey Sharp From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Dec 11 20:13:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: Acquired a PDP11/44, but missing M7095 In-Reply-To: <m18MGwC-000IzIC@p850ug1> References: <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212111821020.1019-100000@panix3.panix.com> from "John Lawson" at Dec 11, 2 06:36:40 pm <m18MGwC-000IzIC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <1303.4.20.168.105.1039659335.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Tony wrote: > (2) I was under the impression that US dryers, while using 230V for the > heating elements, used 115V for the timer. And that US domestic mains > was a centre-tapped (The tap being called 'neutral') 230V supply. > > In which case, if there's a neutral feed to the dryer socket which can > carry the same current (20A) as the 2 live feeds (one from each side of > the mains), then you could run the 11/44 between one live feed and > neutral. This probably breaks code in a dozen places, but.... US residential wiring normally does use 240V split phase, but it is uncommon for there to be four-conductor receptacles with both hots (for 240V), the neutral, and the ground (e.g. NEMA 14-20R or 14-30R receptacles for 20-amp and 30-amp circuits, respecitvely). Instead, a common outlet for a clothes dryer has only three conductors, with two hots and ground (e.g. NEMA 6-20R or 6-30R receptacles for 20-amp and 30-amp circuits). Older homes might have a two-wire receptacle with no ground, such as NEMA 2-20R or 2-30R, but this is probably not allowed by code any longer. Thus a typical US residential clothes dryer outlet can't be used to directly power 120V equipment. From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Dec 11 20:16:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: The effects of employment In-Reply-To: <102448535840.20021211195423@subatomix.com> References: <200212120103.UAA80087434@shell.TheWorld.com> <102448535840.20021211195423@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <1925.4.20.168.105.1039659515.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Jeffrey asks: > But why would companies pick the holidays of all times to lay people > off? It doesn't make sense. This is the time of year I would guess > people spend the most money. Why rid people of this resource at the time > they need it most? It's just so cruel. Because they don't schedule layoffs for the convenience (?) of the employee. They don't give a &#*% about the employee. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Dec 11 20:19:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: Catweasel on Mac OS X? (was Re: Catweasel Floppy Read/Write Tools, version 3.0) In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212111046330.2226-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> from Fred Cisin at "Dec 11, 2 10:50:46 am" Message-ID: <200212120230.SAA28970@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > I've been contemplating getting one of the PCI catweasel cards, and the > > > website says they will work in a Mac, but will it work under Mac OS X? > > I talked to Jens about this, and he says driver software for OS X is in > > the works. He has no plans to support OS 9 at this time. I don't know the > > details about the implementation beyond that. > Once again, the Catweasel people seemingly do not differentiate between > the theoretical and/or hardware capabilities of the board, and what is > CURRENTLY supported and/or has software. This happens a lot to us in the Mac world :-/ > It COULD (theoretically) work in a Mac, but the software needed to do so > does not exist? That's what it seems like. Obviously I won't be buying one until the software is available, since the most current PC I own is ISA-only (and I like it that way). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Spotted on a coffee mug: "Say NO to drugs" -- Chuck Reiman, r.h.f ---------- From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Wed Dec 11 20:23:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: Y2K/Y10K for V5.03 of RT-11 Message-ID: <3DF7F3B6.B944D616@compsys.to> I am not sure if there is any interest at all in fixing the Y2K bugs in V5.03 of RT-11 and making it Y2K compliant. Since V5.03 has been widely available for a number of years and is able to be legally run under the Supnik emulator for hobby users, I am curious to find out if spending the time to port code (that I did in 1997) from V5.04G of RT-11 to V5.03 of RT-11 is worth while insofar as the Y2K bug fix is concerned. In addition, and at the same time, it would be very effective to add extra code to make RT-11 Y10K compliant and handle years up to at least 9999 CE. Even if you are only going to use the final product, the number of individuals interested in playing a role is important to ascertain. Please express if you would like to at least receive the changes to V5.03 that would make the code Y2K/Y10K compliant. At the present time, I assume there is absolutely no commercial interest in a Y2K V5.03 of RT-11. Consequently, the target of this post is, by default, only the hobby community. The final result will also be licensed for just the hobby community, so it is hoped that ought to prevent any complications as to who will use the changes and whether there will be any attempt to restrict the use of such changes by the hobby community. If there is any commercial interest, please e-mail me off list to find out what might be available. If the interest is what I think it is, I will NOT be receiving any responses at all for commercial use! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- To obtain the original e-mail address, please remove the ten characters which immediately follow the 'at'. If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From univac2 at earthlink.net Wed Dec 11 20:25:00 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: The effects of employment In-Reply-To: <004801c2a183$064e55e0$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <BA1D503C.15A7%univac2@earthlink.net> on 12/11/02 8:06 PM, J.C.Wren at jcwren@jcwren.com wrote: > Most likely because of end-of-year budgetting. By laying people before the > first of the calendar year, they can write off the benefits packages, if I > understand this correctly. > > Of course, my idea of high finance is actually getting my checkbook to > balance once a year. There's a great line in an episode of the Mary Tyler Moore Show where Rhoda says, speaking of her checkbook: "I have to go over the figures again. There's something wrong - It balanced." The actual line was better, I can't remember it exactly. It's been a few years. -- Owen Robertson From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 11 20:38:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: The effects of employment In-Reply-To: <102448535840.20021211195423@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20021212024048.26099.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeffrey Sharp <jss@subatomix.com> wrote: > I'm extremely saddened to hear about Megan's and Ethan's layoffs... Thanks. > > Ethan: While a trip to the South Pacific (SoPac? :-)) might be fun, I > would suggest you save your money (unless you've got lots of it). I've > learned it disappears faster than one would think. It does, but I was planning on cashing in frequent flyer miles for a free ticket (I have enough) and staying with people I know in N.Z., eliminating two of the biggest expenses of any trip. It's how I went to see Hans Franke three years ago - couldn't find work, found a cheap flight, got to know a crazed Bavarian! Wot a vacation! > On the other hand, a trip elsewhere might be just the thing to counter > the emotional stress caused by being let go during the holidays. Exactly. Can't get any traction on the job hunt until management gets through this all, so I might as well spend some of my severance on a change of venue. I haven't been out of North America since I went to Germany (made several trips to Canada, but car trips don't satisfy like long-distance travel). Been considering going back to Antarctica, but hiring season doesn't start until April. > I give you both my condolences. Good luck. Thanks and good luck on your new position. May it last as long as you wish. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Dec 11 21:19:00 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: The effects of employment In-Reply-To: <102448535840.20021211195423@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0212111926070.16095-100000@grumble.deltasoft.com> > I'm extremely saddened to hear about Megan's and Ethan's layoffs. Though my > unemployment is ending, I really haven't had a stable, decent-paying job > since July of last year. Trust me, I know how you feel, and I know it > doesn't feel good. > It's like, "Merry Xmas! Here, let me help you with that knife in your back! *twist*" Fscking heartless corporations. g. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Dec 11 21:22:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: The effects of employment In-Reply-To: <102448535840.20021211195423@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212111906240.9554-100000@haiku.jarai.net> On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > I'm extremely saddened to hear about Megan's and Ethan's layoffs. Though my > unemployment is ending, I really haven't had a stable, decent-paying job > since July of last year. Trust me, I know how you feel, and I know it > doesn't feel good. > > But why would companies pick the holidays of all times to lay people off? It > doesn't make sense. This is the time of year I would guess people spend the > most money. Why rid people of this resource at the time they need it most? > It's just so cruel. Not that I'm attributing any notions of generosity to companies, but they could certainly have picked a worse time for layoffs. Although early December can psychologically be a horrible time to be out of job, imagine if you were laid off in January after you'd just blown a lot of money on the holidays? There is some consolation to be had in knowing that you can save some money by scaling back a bit. It still sucks, but you can at least avoid a little debt. The timing certainly has more to do with fiscal quarters and the end of the fiscal year. -brian. From sloboyko at yahoo.com Wed Dec 11 21:39:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: The effects of employment In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212111906240.9554-100000@haiku.jarai.net> Message-ID: <20021212034051.69406.qmail@web11802.mail.yahoo.com> The converse of the comment below, is that Jan and Feb are the best time to get a job. New budgets, new projects...etc. I've heard this from several people including contracting agencies. --- Brian Chase <vaxzilla@jarai.org> wrote: > On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > > I'm extremely saddened to hear about Megan's and > Ethan's layoffs. Though my > > unemployment is ending, I really haven't had a > stable, decent-paying job > > since July of last year. Trust me, I know how you > feel, and I know it > > doesn't feel good. > > > > But why would companies pick the holidays of all > times to lay people off? It > > doesn't make sense. This is the time of year I > would guess people spend the > > most money. Why rid people of this resource at the > time they need it most? > > It's just so cruel. > > Not that I'm attributing any notions of generosity > to companies, but > they could certainly have picked a worse time for > layoffs. Although > early December can psychologically be a horrible > time to be out of job, > imagine if you were laid off in January after you'd > just blown a lot of > money on the holidays? There is some consolation to > be had in knowing > that you can save some money by scaling back a bit. > It still sucks, > but you can at least avoid a little debt. > > The timing certainly has more to do with fiscal > quarters and the end of > the fiscal year. > > -brian. > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From mranalog at attbi.com Wed Dec 11 21:46:01 2002 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: Tubes in computers - numbers, please Message-ID: <3DF806A6.93C56B1A@attbi.com> William Donzelli wrote: > Anyway, if any of you folks have information or samples of old tube based > computing junk (modules, for example, or old unit-record stuff) - could I > bother you to tell me what types of tubes were originally installed? I am > looking for specific numbers, not just "dual triodes". I have a few IBM plug-in (?logic?gate?) modules. Module Tubes AM-5 one tube - 5965(maybe "A") IBM Part# 317261 CF-503 one tube - 5965 PW-505 one tube - 7044 IBM P# 124720 CF-5 one tube - 5965(maybe "A") IBM Part# 317261 TH511 two tubes, both 5696 top one IBM Part# 288626 bottom one IBM Part# 288625 Computer model number unknown And they all look similar to this: http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/tubes2.JPG --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog ========================================= From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Dec 11 23:06:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: Need information on TRSDOS 1.3 internals In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212051307001.17362-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212112056170.23532-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > I have the Pennington book, Sellam. If you can't find a copy locally, I > > might be able to scan the pertinent sections. > ABE turned up nothing so yes, I could use a scan. Unless Fred can find > and loan me his copy. I have located my copy of Pennington. I also have a copy (from the same publishing series) of Farvour's "TRS-DOS 2.3 Decoded & other Mysteries", which has descriptions of the data structures and code disassembly of the OS. Of all of the folk who responded with recollections of what the [minor] differences are between model 1 and model 3 TRS-DOS, I'd trust Tim Mann's most. The rest of us are all working from flaky old memories; and if not refreshed regularly, wetware RAM is not non-volatile. If you do a dump of some of the directory sectors (256 bytes per sector, track 17?), it won't be hard to work through them. TRS-DOS attempted to implement some stuff that was really overkill for a micro OS (like the H.I.T.), but finding and reading the files isn't hard. I'm grading exam papers for the next few days, so you could come by my house (call first), or come up to the college next Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday evening. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 12 00:22:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: Catweasel on Mac OS X? (was Re: Catweasel Floppy Read/Write Tools, version 3.0) In-Reply-To: <200212120230.SAA28970@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212111046330.2226-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021211222339.00a02870@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >This happens a lot to us in the Mac world :-/ > > > It COULD (theoretically) work in a Mac, but the software needed to do so > > does not exist? Many claim "it works on a mac" based on availability of PC cards or PC emulation on the mac, ie it works on a mac, but only when the mac does exactly what a PC does. From foo at siconic.com Thu Dec 12 00:48:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: Tonight: "Hackers" TV show... In-Reply-To: <3DF7DD4D.55378A10@comcast.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212111449160.6450-100000@siconic.com> On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Some material for your VCR... > Tonight, Dec. 11th, at 10 PM Eastern time, the TLC cable channel is > doing a show titled "Hackers". Supposedly a look at black- and white-hat > hackers, and cyber crime. Hopefgully it'll be interesting... Isn't the full title, "Hackers: Computer Outlaws"? If so, all the old computers in there were provided by me, and the guy playing Woz with the Blue Box is Alex of the ACCRC. If you look closely, and you know what I look like, you'll see a shot or two of me "hacking" in the dark ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Dec 12 01:19:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: Tonight: "Hackers" TV show... References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021211195844.032f9eb0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <002101c2a1af$450501e0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Roger Merchberger wrote: > Should I tell Uncle Tivo to record it??? I can make SVCDs of the > thing, for those who have DVD players that can play a slightly > non-standard stream... ;-) I'd love a copy - can you make an ISO image or MPEG file and upload it somewhere? Finding out if the DVD player can play an NTSC-formatted VideoCD might take a quick skim through the manual... Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Dec 12 02:13:01 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: BBC Acorn" (Dec 11, 23:50) References: <m18MGca-000IzIC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <10212120809.ZM2705@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 11, 23:50, Tony Duell wrote: > On Dec 11, 15:36, Joe wrote: > > > Today I went and picked up another part of my lot of computers that > > I bought last week. One of the things that I brought home today was a > > BBC Acorn computer. I'd heard of these but never seen one before. I was > > pleasantly surprised to find that this one was apparently built for use > > in the US and that it operates from 110 VAC 50 or 60 Hz and has a US > > style power plug. Does anyone know how many of these were imported into > > the US? I'm assuming that since it's set up for US power system that it > > will also operate on standard US TV and monitor frequencies. Does anyone > > THere is a US version of the BBC Micro. The differnces are the MOS ROM > (MOS = Machine Operating System, nothing to do with the technology of the > chip), which programs the 6845 for US frequencies and the colour encoder, > which generates NTSC rather than PAL video. Oh, the master Xtal must > change too, I guess... The crystal for the colour circuit does, but not the main crystal. > > know for sure. BTW the model number on this one is UNB 09. All the > > Acorn websites that I've found only list models A, B and B+ so I'm not > > sure what this is equivelent to. > > The A and the B are really the same machine. It's just that the A has > many chips missing (half the RAM, the ROM select register, the user VIA, > the RS423 buffers, etc). There are also spaces on the PCB for options > that are not standard in either the A or the B -- the disk controller, > Econet interface, Speech system, etc. > > The B+ is different. It has many more custom ULAs in it, and 64K RAM. > > >From the model number on your machine, I would assume it's a B, but I am > not sure. I don't need to add much to what Tony has said, except to confirm that what you have is indeed (from the model number) a USA Model B. Other (minor) differences are things like it accepts American spellings for BASIC keywords ("color" vs "colour"), and IIRC some of the screen modes have different numbers of lines. I guess I should go and look up the technical notes for you... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Dec 12 03:37:01 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: Tubes in computers - numbers, please In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 11 Dec 2002 00:15:18 GMT." <m18LuX4-000IzUC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <200212110909.JAA10485@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said: > > Anyway, if any of you folks have information or samples of old tube based > > computing junk (modules, for example, or old unit-record stuff) - could I > > bother you to tell me what types of tubes were originally installed? I am > > looking for specific numbers, not just "dual triodes". > > I have one module from a Ferranti machine (I am not sure which -- did > either of the Mercury or Argus use valves?). It has 3 Brimar 6060 double > triodes on it. The Mercury used valves. I think the Atlas was the first transistor model. I used to have an Atlas board filled with OC170s which I removed to make radios, RF transistors being quite expensive at that time :-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Dec 12 06:34:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <10212120809.ZM2705@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: BBC Acorn" (Dec 11, 23:50)> <m18MGca-000IzIC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021212074044.3b8fdf5e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:09 AM 12/12/02 GMT, Peter Turnbull wrote: >> >> >From the model number on your machine, I would assume it's a B, but I am >> not sure. It does appear to be a B. It has two rows of (mumble)16 memory chips so it has 32k of RAM. > >I don't need to add much to what Tony has said, except to confirm that what >you have is indeed (from the model number) a USA Model B. Other (minor) >differences are things like it accepts American spellings for BASIC >keywords ("color" vs "colour"), That makes sense. I noticed that the ROM containing BASIC is labeled "US BASIC". What is "DFS OS"? I was surprised to find that it uses an intel 8271 for floppy drive controller. It powered up up but isn't recognizing any keys except the BREAK key. I ran it for over an hour then one of the rectangular tantalum filter caps in the PSU blew. Fixing the PSU shouldn't be a problem. Does anyone know what they use for a keyboard interface (if it even uses one)? or if there's any schematics posted anywhere for it? Joe From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Thu Dec 12 08:04:00 2002 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: Tonight: "Hackers" TV show... References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212111449160.6450-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <3DF89820.7182EA7@comcast.net> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > Some material for your VCR... > > Tonight, Dec. 11th, at 10 PM Eastern time, the TLC cable channel is > > doing a show titled "Hackers". Supposedly a look at black- and white-hat > > hackers, and cyber crime. Hopefgully it'll be interesting... > > Isn't the full title, "Hackers: Computer Outlaws"? If so, all the old > computers in there were provided by me, and the guy playing Woz with the > Blue Box is Alex of the ACCRC. If you look closely, and you know what I > look like, you'll see a shot or two of me "hacking" in the dark ;) Really? Cool. I'm not positive about the name, but I'll keep my eye open when I watch the tape today. Anything else I should look out for? -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Thu Dec 12 08:10:01 2002 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: The effects of employment References: <20021212034051.69406.qmail@web11802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3DF899AA.2E89A139@comcast.net> Loboyko Steve wrote: > > The converse of the comment below, is that Jan and Feb > are the best time to get a job. New budgets, new > projects...etc. I've heard this from several people > including contracting agencies. That's what I'm hoping for. Been out of work since Nov. 1. I am starting my own little computer shop now, though. Already have one corporate customer! Ever hear of CTI Electronics (www.CTIElectronics.com)? They make some really neat industrial strength keyboards and mice. Used in all sorts of military, aerospace, and ocean-bound ship types of places. Thet also have this really neat back-lit keyboard that's no bigger footprint than a sheet of paper. Ooops, sorry about the rambling ad there... Need more coffee..... -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Dec 12 08:33:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: The Ne[w|utered] HP (was: RE: The effects of employment) Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FDD8@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Hi all, What stuns me about this what seems to be a national effort to wipe out existing knowledge and experience in the various U.S. companies trying to clean up their EOY numbers, is that they truly dont KNOW what they're doing. I did some asking around based on Megan's layoff, and the results are stunning. HP really, deeply and truly has no idea of what they're doing right now, let alone where they're going from here. Corporate HQ announces that the numbers don't look [as] good, so we have to cut on operational costs. And, HP being New (I'd call it 'brainless'- but then again, I'm not part of their staff ;-) they go for the first possible solution: fire people. What would that do in the long run? Right now, their plan is to dump Tru64/Alpha, and to integrate that with the HPSux/HPPA stuff. We'll see about that later (customers usually have their own ideas about that- they forced MS into keeping Win2000 around for much longer than they wanted to ...) but for now, exactly _HOW_ is HP going to handle their support obligations to their enterprise customers? I talked to the CTI of a _Major_ Dutch multinational this morning, which I know uses truckloads of Alpha systems, with both VMS and Tru64. When I told him about the layoffs in the UEG (Unix Engineering Group) task forces, he said: "Oh. So, assuming they clean out most of their brains, which is what this sounds like, HOW can they adhere to their claim to full support until X years after EOL?" Also- I can't speak for U.S. companies and their IT staffs, but in Europe, HP/UX doesn't have such a grand name in Enterprise Computing. It's mostly Sun Solaris on the Exxx boxes, and Tru64 UNIX on Alpha, as far as large UNIX systems are concerned. HOW is HP going to sell this to their customers, without those same customers running off to Sun or IBM, in search for some stability? Anyway. HP has lost its marbles. Cutting operational costs is a good thing, and usually serves a purpose. Ripping off your own balls (I apologize for any ladies reading this..) is not the best thing to do, and will probably leave you without kids later on. Kids that feed you when you can no longer do it yourself. Which might happen sooner than you think... --fred (yes, pissed off, how'd ya guess?) From GOOI at oce.nl Thu Dec 12 08:55:01 2002 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: Tonight: "Hackers" TV show... Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF6410CBA79@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > Some material for your VCR... > > Tonight, Dec. 11th, at 10 PM Eastern time, the TLC cable > > channel is doing a show titled "Hackers". Supposedly a > > look at black- and white-hat hackers, and cyber crime. > > Hopefgully it'll be interesting... > > Isn't the full title, "Hackers: Computer Outlaws"? If so, > all the old computers in there were provided by me, and the > guy playing Woz with the Blue Box is Alex of the ACCRC. > If you look closely, and you know what I look like, you'll > see a shot or two of me "hacking" in the dark ;) Even more reasons for any kind US resident person to make an mpeg of it and make it availbale for all of us poor souls who do not live in the US. We already miss on all the PDP-11 goodies that are for pick up on the other side of the ocean. - Henk. From mross666 at hotmail.com Thu Dec 12 10:08:23 2002 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: Unibus SCSI question Message-ID: <F37Hd6z6BJ8QiIWMzRs0000450e@hotmail.com> I've just aquired a tested working Emulex UC17 Unibus SCSI host interface from a dealer for $50... don't know if I'm crazy paying so much for old Unibus or not! Question is, does anyone have any observations as to any special requirements such a card might have? Long time since I've played with any Emulex... any reason why it shouldn't work in really ancient hardware, such as my 11/20?... something appeals to me about putting a SCSI disk in such an ancient device! Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From classiccmp at crash.com Thu Dec 12 12:39:00 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: Tonight: Hackers TV show Message-ID: <200212121840.gBCIe2g25127@io.crash.com> [ Spoiler alert - contains details of the program. I caught the [ rebroadcast at 1AM. > > [ Sellam indicates for some program, he supplied old PCs ] > > Even more reasons for any kind US resident person to make an > mpeg of it [...] Or maybe not. I don't think I missed the beginning, and there was nothing about Woz, Cap'n Crunch, etc. It started off with a camera following some PHB through security checkpoints. It was mostly hype, glorifying the "white hats" like Internet Security Systems (www.iss.net) and making their NOC look like the next best thing to 007 and Q. Their handling of the "black hats" wasn't as shrill or alarmist as I'd have expected after the first bit covering ISS' NOC and "AlertCon." The production value was high - they used lots of flashy visual gimickry to let you know how cool this topic and the production team is/was. Didn't do squat for content, but someone had fun inverting color maps, solarizing and posterizing images, making lots of jump cuts, etc. But don't worry, they harped on the potential for an "electronic Pearl Harbor" quite a bit. They had a very touching bit about how the top-level hackers cherish their anonymity because, when they achieve underworld fame, they would be harassed by the hordes of wannabees and ankle-biters... I felt so sorry for them. :^/ I really disliked how they lumped Eric Raymond, John Perry Barlow, and the EFF in as somehow defending these "black hats" and their desire to commit real, traditional crime. They did let ESR get in a couple words expressing the difference between cracker and hacker, but I wouldn't expect my mother to have understood it and they quickly moved on. And then they made his guest accomodations, described as they walked into his office, sound like a stop on some sort of hacker underground railroad... The worst part? They had a guy from the MPAA on describing piracy, and the response from the other side was clearly aimed at the strategy of using DRM to gain control of the desktop by Hollywood. But they didn't explain that they were presenting responses to two different issues, so it looked like the EFF was somehow trying to support people ripping off movies before they're released to the theater. Not good. There's a nutshell review. My opinions, YMMV. --Steve. From dtwright at uiuc.edu Thu Dec 12 13:10:01 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: Tonight: "Hackers" TV show... In-Reply-To: <002101c2a1af$450501e0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021211195844.032f9eb0@mail.30below.com> <002101c2a1af$450501e0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20021212191215.GA3205607@uiuc.edu> Philip Pemberton said: > Roger Merchberger wrote: > > Should I tell Uncle Tivo to record it??? I can make SVCDs of the > > thing, for those who have DVD players that can play a slightly > > non-standard stream... ;-) > I'd love a copy - can you make an ISO image or MPEG file and upload it > somewhere? Hey, that would be super-cool, especially since I've already missed it :-( Let me know if this happens... > Finding out if the DVD player can play an NTSC-formatted VideoCD might take > a quick skim through the manual... > > Thanks. > -- > Phil. > philpem@dsl.pipex.com > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Dec 12 13:12:01 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: Free Fortune 32:16 system in the Chicago area In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021201221321.01b253a0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021212131221.01b09b38@ubanproductions.com> A friend of mine is cleaning house and has the following system available for free pickup in the Chicago area: Fortune 32:16 (68000 based unix box) http://64.32.210.122/picts/Computer/Fortune/index.html Condition: the hard drive does not spin up. Last time I tried to power it up, it displayed: 1 2 3 and then hangs (probably because of the hard drive.) I think it used to count to 10 as it boots. It isn't clear if the problem is the drive or the power supply. If you are interested in this, please send email to: Bill (jackbot AT yahoo DOT com) be sure to replace the AT and DOT accordingly. --tom From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Dec 12 13:15:01 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:31 2005 Subject: Free Wang 6540-1 system in the Chicago area In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021201221321.01b253a0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021212131620.01b895c0@ubanproductions.com> A friend of mine is cleaning house and has the following system available for free pickup in the Chicago area: CPU: Wang model 6540-1 with Wang hard drive model number 6580, Magenetic Peripherials Inc, Control Data corp., Model number 9448 Cartridge Drive, Part No. 77717013 http://64.32.210.122/picts/Computer/Wang/index.html (condition unknown) I believe that there are some 8" floppies for this machine as well. If you are interested in this, please send email to: Bill (jackbot AT yahoo DOT com) be sure to replace the AT and DOT accordingly. --tom From dtwright at uiuc.edu Thu Dec 12 13:21:00 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: The Ne[w|utered] HP (was: RE: The effects of employment) In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FDD8@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FDD8@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <20021212192330.GB3205607@uiuc.edu> Fred N. van Kempen said: > > Right now, their plan is to dump Tru64/Alpha, and to integrate that with > the HPSux/HPPA stuff. We'll see about that later (customers usually have Oh, not even! HPPA (which is a great platform IMO) is being phased out in favor of Itanium. They're keeping HPUX and porting it to Itanium, but so far the results are less then spectacular...I had an Itanium2 demo machine with HPUX 11i, and it couldn't configure its network right half the time (though it would always think it did) and couldn't use the graphics console. Which the sales guy didn't TELL me, so I was sitting here thinking, "why does this thing start to load the kernel then hang EVERY TIME? this is supposed to be a working release!" I finally talked to one of their engineers who said "oh yeah, that doesn't work yet...use serial console...he didn't tell you that?!" and this is supposed to demonstrate their "commitment to HPUX on Itanium" and all that horseshit...right... - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From Qstieee at aol.com Thu Dec 12 13:22:10 2002 From: Qstieee at aol.com (Qstieee@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: GenRad tester Message-ID: <15d.18d6f173.2b2a3c5a@aol.com> I believe someone asked about this in the last few weeks, but I didn't save the message. E-mail trestivo@concentric.net, he services them. See www.tarinc.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021212/1edf4fd7/attachment.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 12 13:32:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: Tonight: "Hackers" TV show... In-Reply-To: <20021212191215.GA3205607@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212121131520.8443-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> > Finding out if the DVD player can play an NTSC-formatted VideoCD might take > a quick skim through the manual... Try: http://www.vcdhelp.com/dvdplayers I don't know how ACCURATE their info is. From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 12 13:33:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: Unibus SCSI question In-Reply-To: <F37Hd6z6BJ8QiIWMzRs0000450e@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <v04020a04ba1e94c4171a@[192.168.1.5]> >I've just aquired a tested working Emulex UC17 Unibus SCSI host interface >from a dealer for $50... don't know if I'm crazy paying so much for old >Unibus or not! No, you're not crazy! You just got an AMAZING deal! >Question is, does anyone have any observations as to any special >requirements such a card might have? Long time since I've played with any >Emulex... any reason why it shouldn't work in really ancient hardware, such >as my 11/20?... something appeals to me about putting a SCSI disk in such >>an ancient device! Unfortunatly the manuals on my FTP site look to be for the UC07/08, not the UC17. Also, I've not heard of anyone putting SCSI on such an old PDP-11, it will be interesting to hear what your results are. On problem I can think of is that you'll probably have to toggle in an MSCP bootstrap. Please let us know how this goes, like I said, it will be interesting to know. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Dec 12 13:37:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: Joe <rigdonj@cfl.rr.com> "Re: BBC Acorn" (Dec 12, 7:40) References: <ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: BBC Acorn" (Dec 11 23:50)> <m18MGca-000IzIC@p850ug1> <3.0.6.16.20021212074044.3b8fdf5e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <10212121939.ZM3011@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 12, 7:40, Joe wrote: > It does appear to be a B. It has two rows of (mumble)16 memory chips so it has 32k of RAM. It probably is a B if that's the case (and the part number certainly is a "B" part number) but just having the RAM doesn't make it so. The chips are 4116s, BTW. As Tony said, there are lots of differences between an A and a B, but all the upgrades are/were available and there is no difference between an upgraded A and a B (except perhaps the date codes on some chips, how many are socketed, and maybe a little flux residue on the board). I thought I had a document listing the exact differences between UK and US versions, but I can't find it :-( However, the differences are small: different MOS (mainly video timings to be programmed into the CRTC), different colour crystal, different BASIC ROM (American spellings added, version number changed from II to III). IIRC the US version also had Econet and speech synthesis fitted (otions on the UK version). It didn't sell very well, and eventually a lot were re-imported to the UK becasue there was a boom in demand around 1986-87, which rather surprised Acornm, as they'd had two successor models since the original Model B in 1981! > What is "DFS OS"? Something is wriong if it says "DFS OS", I think. See below. DFS = Disc Filing System ("disc" has a "c" in English :-)). A single-density dis[ck] filing system, with a fairly simple flat directory structure. It can handle two 5.25" floppies, which may be any mixture of double- or single-sided, 40- or 80-track, so long as they have a standard SA400-type interface. Capacities are 200K for 40-track discs, 400K for 80-track. The two sides are treated as separate disks (so Drive 0 and Drive 2 are opposite sides of the same physical unit, and 1 and for the other unit). > I was surprised to find that it uses an intel 8271 for floppy drive controller. It's based on an earlier Acorn design. It's possible to replace the 8271 and some parts with others, plus a daughterboard carrying a 1770. You need the "1770 DFS" to drive it, still single density (in fact, compatible in almost every way) but you can then also add the ADFS (Advanced Disc Filing System) ROM to get double-density and a fully hierarchical directory structure. Capacities range from 160K (40-track, SS) to 640K (DS 80-track), called "S" (small), "M" (medium), "L" (large). As you may have guessed by now, if you didn't already know, many parts of the MOS are modular, and it's possible to add many other ROMs with languages, service utilities, and filing systems. FS's I can think of off the top of my head include TAPE (cassette filing system, built-in), RFS (ROM Filing System, also built in), DFS (you've met), ADFS (see above), TFS (Telesoftware, with a teletext adaptor), NFS (Econet networking), DNFS (combined DFS, NFS, and 2nd Processor handler), VFS (Video Filing System, of Domesday fame), "Advanced" versions of some of these, and various third-party equivalents. > It powered up up but isn't recognizing any keys except the BREAK key. I ran it for over an hour then one of the rectangular tantalum filter caps in the PSU blew. Fixing the PSU shouldn't be a problem. Does anyone know what they use for a keyboard interface (if it even uses one)? or if there's any schematics posted anywhere for it? You want to look at a couple of sites in particular, starting with The BBC Lives! at http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/bbc/ and The BBC Documentation Project at http://www.bbcdocs.com/ There you'll find many things, including the Service Manuals (look under "Essentials"), which include the schematics. Also 8BS Software at http://8bs.com , where you'll find a nicely annotated set of pictures of the BBC B motherboard (http://8bs.com/inbbc.htm). Chris Richardson at 8BS lives not far from me, and he's scanned a lot of my manuals and contributed them to The BBC Documentation Project. When you power up a working Beeb, it should make a double "beep" and then display something like BBC Microcomputer 32K Acorn DFS BASIC > If you get nothing, check power. If you get a continuous tone and not much more, or just get a flashing cursor at top left, check the keyboard cable, IC3, and other keyboard-related stuff. The way the keyboard works is quite neat. Like almost everything on a Beeb, it's interrupt-driven (unlike Apples and PETs, which are much slower -- even allowing for clock speed differences -- becasue they use polling loops). I wrote the following to explain it on a BBC mailing list recently, when someone had a faulty one. This particular fault was heat-related, hence the notes at the end; note that the most common fault is a broken or mis-fitted 17-way ribbon cable between keyboard and motherboard or a cracked track near a key: A 74LS161 (or 74163, they're interchangable for this purpose) 4-bit pre-loadable counter is clocked at 1MHz, and its outputs drive a 7445 (or 74145, again they're interchangable for this purpose) one-of-ten decoder. For each state "0" to "9" generated by the counter, one of the open-collector outputs of the 7445 is pulled low, and the corresponding keyboard column goes low. If a key in that column is pressed at the time, one of the row inputs of a 74LS30 is also pulled low, which signals to the system VIA on its CA2 handshake pin, and generates an interrupt. When the MOS services the interrupt, it uses PA0-PA3 to drive the 74LS161 like a latch, and tests each column in turn. For each column, it also selects each row in turn. Each row is connected to one input of a 72LS251 multiplexer, and by using PA4-PA6 to address the MUX, the MUX output, which is conected to PA7, can be sampled. When the MUX output is low, you've found the row and column of the key that was pressed to generate the interrupt. The most likely fault is a cracked track near the counter or MUX; I've seen similar situations where a crack right beside an IC becomes heat sensitive (when it warms up, the metal expands and -- counterintuitively -- widens the crack. Second most likely is the chip itself. If all the keys in one column are faulty, suspect the decoder (7445). If all the keys in several columns are bad, suspect the counter (74LS161). If some keys in a column are good but some are bad, but all the keys in a row are bad, suspect the MUX (74LS251). If it's just a mixture, suspect the VIA (which is usually socketed, so easy to swap with the user VIA). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From coredump at gifford.co.uk Thu Dec 12 14:15:00 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: Tubes in computers - numbers, please References: <200212110909.JAA10485@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <3DF8ED74.1000904@gifford.co.uk> Stan Barr wrote: > I used to have an Atlas board filled with OC170s which I removed to make > radios, RF transistors being quite expensive at that time :-) I have a board from a Leo (Lyons Electronic Office) that was covered in GET111 transistors. I was young, and I desoldered them all to use in various projects. I think I still have all the parts... -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Dec 12 14:16:01 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: pete@mindy "Re: BBC Acorn" (Dec 12, 19:39) References: <ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: BBC Acorn" (Dec 11 23:50)> <m18MGca-000IzIC@p850ug1> <3.0.6.16.20021212074044.3b8fdf5e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <10212121939.ZM3011@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <10212122018.ZM3070@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 12, 19:39, pete@mindy wrote: > The chips are 4116s No, they're not, Pete, that's a typo. They're 4816s. > The way the keyboard works is quite neat. Maybe I should have been more explicit abut this: the 17-way cable carries +5V, 0V, /RESET, system 1MHz clock, three LED drive signals, and the VIA signals relating to the keyboard. It's "the keyboard interface", if you like. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Thu Dec 12 14:22:01 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: Unibus SCSI question Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AFDF@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> Zane H. Healy wrote: >Unfortunatly the manuals on my FTP site look to be for the UC07/08, not the UC17. A UC17 manual is available here: http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/emulex/ Antonio From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 12 15:35:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: The Ne[w|utered] HP (was: RE: The effects of employment) In-Reply-To: <20021212192330.GB3205607@uiuc.edu> from "Dan Wright" at Dec 12, 2002 01:23:30 PM Message-ID: <200212122137.gBCLbaC28339@shell1.aracnet.com> > Oh, not even! HPPA (which is a great platform IMO) is being phased out in > favor of Itanium. They're keeping HPUX and porting it to Itanium, but so far > the results are less then spectacular...I had an Itanium2 demo machine with > HPUX 11i, and it couldn't configure its network right half the time (though > it would always think it did) and couldn't use the graphics console. Which > the sales guy didn't TELL me, so I was sitting here thinking, "why does this > thing start to load the kernel then hang EVERY TIME? this is supposed to be a > working release!" I finally talked to one of their engineers who said "oh > yeah, that doesn't work yet...use serial console...he didn't tell you that?!" > and this is supposed to demonstrate their "commitment to HPUX on Itanium" and > all that horseshit...right... > > - Dan Wright Were you told it was production ready? Plus how long ago was this? Itanium2 systems haven't been available that long, and it's understandable for it to take a while to get everything working right. I'm guessing Linux is a far easier port than HP-UX, as HP-UX has to deal with a bunch of new hardware, while a lot of the hardware is familiar to Linux. What little I've seen of the HP Itanium2 machines they look very nice, far better than the Itanium boxes. Unfortunatly I've not gotten to play with any of them. Zane From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Thu Dec 12 15:39:00 2002 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: Tubes in computers - numbers, please In-Reply-To: <3DF8ED74.1000904@gifford.co.uk> References: <200212110909.JAA10485@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20021212164027.00bba8c8@pop-server> The first computer that I ever saw was an IBM 701 Vacuum Tube Computer at IBM in Poughkeepsie in 1964. It was being used to test IBM 360 Computers From dtwright at uiuc.edu Thu Dec 12 16:00:01 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: The Ne[w|utered] HP (was: RE: The effects of employment) In-Reply-To: <200212122137.gBCLbaC28339@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <20021212192330.GB3205607@uiuc.edu> <200212122137.gBCLbaC28339@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20021212220249.GA3231494@uiuc.edu> Zane H. Healy said: > > Oh, not even! HPPA (which is a great platform IMO) is being phased out in > > favor of Itanium. They're keeping HPUX and porting it to Itanium, but so far > > the results are less then spectacular...I had an Itanium2 demo machine with > > HPUX 11i, and it couldn't configure its network right half the time (though > > it would always think it did) and couldn't use the graphics console. Which > > the sales guy didn't TELL me, so I was sitting here thinking, "why does this > > thing start to load the kernel then hang EVERY TIME? this is supposed to be a > > working release!" I finally talked to one of their engineers who said "oh > > yeah, that doesn't work yet...use serial console...he didn't tell you that?!" > > and this is supposed to demonstrate their "commitment to HPUX on Itanium" and > > all that horseshit...right... > > > > - Dan Wright > > Were you told it was production ready? Plus how long ago was this? > Itanium2 systems haven't been available that long, and it's understandable > for it to take a while to get everything working right. I'm guessing Linux > is a far easier port than HP-UX, as HP-UX has to deal with a bunch of new > hardware, while a lot of the hardware is familiar to Linux. Not production ready, but it was supposed to be close enough that I could test some of our scientific software on it. It wasn't even close, given how often it would fall off the network and do other weird things, like spontaneously reboot... > What little I've seen of the HP Itanium2 machines they look very nice, far > better than the Itanium boxes. Unfortunatly I've not gotten to play with > any of them. Well...definitly better then the Itanium boxes. But it's pretty much a big PC, with the build quality that would imply. kind of disappointing, compared to their older workstations... I'm really just disappointed overall with their decision to kill Alpha and PA-RISC. Itanium really isn't that good, at least not yet, and they're going to lose a LOT of customers by doing it. - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Dec 12 16:18:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: The Ne[w|utered] HP (was: RE: The effects of employment) Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C752@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Dan wrote: > Well...definitly better then the Itanium boxes. But it's pretty much a big PC, > with the build quality that would imply. kind of disappointing, compared to > their older workstations... Yes. > I'm really just disappointed overall with their decision to kill Alpha and > PA-RISC. Itanium really isn't that good, at least not yet, and they're going > to lose a LOT of customers by doing it. **THAT** was my point, yes. Enterprise customers kinda laugh at the idea of their stuff being of the "Intel Inside" kind, and will be almost impossible to be changed into that. They'll go Sun, or IBM, but will do pretty much anything to NOT be sucked into this "New Big PC crap", as one of them called it. In the old days, we had Sun, DEC, Compaq, HP and IBM for the larger systems. DEC got sucked into Compaq, which also had Tandem. That seemed like not such a bad plan, and it could have worked (my personal opinion.) Now, we loose both DEC/Compaq (so, Tru64/Alpha and VMS/Alpha) and HP (HPUX/HPPA), only to get... _MORE_ Intel crap into this world. Don't get me wrong- I like my PC's. And yes, some of them run Win2000, some do UNIX, whatever. But that's *PC* stuff, for PC tasks. My customers will probably invite me in to come and tell them which vendor of "real" Big Things (tm) they can switch to now, without the chance of having to do that again in two years from now. So... Sun (sigh) or IBM (eek) ? HP loses.. bigtime. And as a shareholder.. indeed, i voted 'no' :) #define NHP /*brainless*/ #define HP NHP --fred From dtwright at uiuc.edu Thu Dec 12 16:38:00 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: The Ne[w|utered] HP (was: RE: The effects of employment) In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C752@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C752@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <20021212224018.GC3231494@uiuc.edu> Fred N. van Kempen said: > > **THAT** was my point, yes. Enterprise customers kinda laugh at the idea of > their stuff being of the "Intel Inside" kind, and will be almost impossible > to be changed into that. They'll go Sun, or IBM, but will do pretty much > anything to NOT be sucked into this "New Big PC crap", as one of them called > it. Heh...that description sounds about right to me. About the only big Itanium system I'll trust will be SGI's ccNUMA system, because it's based on the Origin3000 architecture. I KNOW there's no Intel influence there beyond the processor itself. I'd sure like to get my hands on one of those, when they become available...mmm...I like working for a university ;-) - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 12 17:14:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: The Ne[w|utered] HP (was: RE: The effects of employment) In-Reply-To: <20021212220249.GA3231494@uiuc.edu> from "Dan Wright" at Dec 12, 2002 04:02:49 PM Message-ID: <200212122316.gBCNGr101150@shell1.aracnet.com> > Not production ready, but it was supposed to be close enough that I could test > some of our scientific software on it. It wasn't even close, given how often > it would fall off the network and do other weird things, like spontaneously > reboot... Ouch. As far as I know, we're not having major problems with the systems we've got running Linux. However, I'm not part of the team that's responsible for them. > Well...definitly better then the Itanium boxes. But it's pretty much a big PC, > with the build quality that would imply. kind of disappointing, compared to > their older workstations... The Itanium boxes I've seen reminded me a lot of some of the more recent HP workstations I've seen in (actually those HP's are probably 3-5 years old). I've worked on HP 9000-750's and as I recall they were well built, the newer PA-RISC systems scared me to the point I won't even consider having one at home! > I'm really just disappointed overall with their decision to kill Alpha and > PA-RISC. Itanium really isn't that good, at least not yet, and they're going > to lose a LOT of customers by doing it. > > - Dan Wright The problem there being, if they loose customers, it's going to either be to IBM or Linux (or maybe Sun, but that strikes me as a big maybe, and I for one prefer Solaris). Killing the Alpha is the one that ticks me off, but I'm not to sure if it's Compaq or HP that should get the blame there. Zane From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Dec 12 17:30:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: The Ne[w|utered] HP (was: RE: The effects of employment) Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C755@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > The problem there being, if they loose customers, it's going > to either be to > IBM or Linux (or maybe Sun, but that strikes me as a big > maybe, and I for > one prefer Solaris). Killing the Alpha is the one that ticks > me off, but > I'm not to sure if it's Compaq or HP that should get the blame there. Hmmm.... you know, I think I'll hold on to my Linux-based stock and other "assets" in that area... :) Or, maybe, buy Tru64 from HP. [no discussion, please.. YES, i CAN...] --fred From foo at siconic.com Thu Dec 12 18:40:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: Tonight: Hackers TV show In-Reply-To: <200212121840.gBCIe2g25127@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212120839210.9136-100000@siconic.com> On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, Steve Jones wrote: > Or maybe not. I don't think I missed the beginning, and there > was nothing about Woz, Cap'n Crunch, etc. It started off with > a camera following some PHB through security checkpoints. Sounds like a totally different program then. > The production value was high - they used lots of flashy visual > gimickry to let you know how cool this topic and the production > team is/was. Didn't do squat for content, but someone had fun > inverting color maps, solarizing and posterizing images, making > lots of jump cuts, etc. The one I was involved with was pretty high quality as well. I was actually surprised how well done it was (told a good story, stuck to the facts, not too much hype). > But don't worry, they harped on the potential for an "electronic > Pearl Harbor" quite a bit. They had a very touching bit about how > the top-level hackers cherish their anonymity because, when they > achieve underworld fame, they would be harassed by the hordes of > wannabees and ankle-biters... I felt so sorry for them. :^/ Um, I think the more important reason is that they avoid being arrested and thrown in prison. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Dec 12 18:44:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: The Ne[w|utered] HP (was: RE: The effects of employment) In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FDD8@mwsrv04.microwalt.n l> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021212192046.0fe7a7f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:35 PM 12/12/02 +0100, Fred wrote: >Hi all, > >What stuns me about this what seems to be a national effort to wipe >out existing knowledge and experience in the various U.S. companies >trying to clean up their EOY numbers, is that they truly dont KNOW >what they're doing. I knew that when they appointed a woman CEO that knew NOTHING about computers or test equipment, the two items that HP was built on and reached major success with. It was again confirmed when they threw away the HP name (and outstanding reputation) and renamed it Agilent. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Dec 12 18:44:25 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: GenRad tester In-Reply-To: <15d.18d6f173.2b2a3c5a@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021212192640.0fe73eb8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I was the one that asked about the GenRad 2300 Advanced Developement System. I searched the net and found ONE reference to it. It is a CPM computer but didn't find anything more than that. At 02:24 PM 12/12/02 EST, you wrote: >I believe someone asked about this in the last few weeks, but I didn't save >the message. E-mail trestivo@concentric.net, he services them. See >www.tarinc.com The 2300 isn't listed on his webpage. Besides I don't need it serviced (and I'm sure I could afford what these third party guys want!) I was just wondering if I should rescue it. Finally decided not to. There's no docs or software and they'd probably be impossible to find. Too bad. Another exotic computer bites the dust. Joe > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\GenRadte.htm" > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Dec 12 18:44:45 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <10212121939.ZM3011@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <Joe <rigdonj@cfl.rr.com> <ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: BBC Acorn" (Dec 11 23:50)> <m18MGca-000IzIC@p850ug1> <3.0.6.16.20021212074044.3b8fdf5e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021212194332.0f477346@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:39 PM 12/12/02 GMT, you wrote: >On Dec 12, 7:40, Joe wrote: > >> It does appear to be a B. It has two rows of (mumble)16 memory chips >so it has 32k of RAM. > >It probably is a B if that's the case (and the part number certainly is a >"B" part number) but just having the RAM doesn't make it so. The chips are >4116s, BTW. As Tony said, there are lots of differences between an A and a >B, but all the upgrades are/were available and there is no difference >between an upgraded A and a B (except perhaps the date codes on some chips, >how many are socketed, and maybe a little flux residue on the board). Nope, all the RAMS are soldered directly to the board and no solder flux. I'm sure it was built with 32K and that appears to agree with the US model number. > >I thought I had a document listing the exact differences between UK and US >versions, but I can't find it :-( However, the differences are small: >different MOS (mainly video timings to be programmed into the CRTC), >different colour crystal, different BASIC ROM (American spellings added, >version number changed from II to III). IIRC the US version also had >Econet and speech synthesis fitted (otions on the UK version). It didn't >sell very well, and eventually a lot were re-imported to the UK becasue >there was a boom in demand around 1986-87, which rather surprised Acornm, >as they'd had two successor models since the original Model B in 1981! > >> What is "DFS OS"? > >Something is wriong if it says "DFS OS", I think. See below. It's not running at the moment but when it was it said soemthing like: "Acron version 2.1 DFS OS BASIC OS" There's also a EPROM that says "DFS OS" in it so I think it's supposed to say that. > >DFS = Disc Filing System ("disc" has a "c" in English :-)). A >single-density dis[ck] filing system, with a fairly simple flat directory >structure. It can handle two 5.25" floppies, which may be any mixture of >double- or single-sided, 40- or 80-track, so long as they have a standard >SA400-type interface. > >Capacities are 200K for 40-track discs, 400K for 80-track. The two sides >are treated as separate disks (so Drive 0 and Drive 2 are opposite sides of >the same physical unit, and 1 and for the other unit). > >> I was surprised to find that it uses an intel 8271 for floppy drive >controller. > >It's based on an earlier Acorn design. It's possible to replace the 8271 >and some parts with others, plus a daughterboard carrying a 1770. I was just surprised to see the 8271. The only other systems that I remember seeing them used in are the Intel MDSs. You need >the "1770 DFS" to drive it, still single density (in fact, compatible in >almost every way) but you can then also add the ADFS (Advanced Disc Filing >System) ROM to get double-density and a fully hierarchical directory >structure. Capacities range from 160K (40-track, SS) to 640K (DS >80-track), called "S" (small), "M" (medium), "L" (large). > >As you may have guessed by now, if you didn't already know, many parts of >the MOS are modular, and it's possible to add many other ROMs with >languages, service utilities, and filing systems. FS's I can think of off >the top of my head include TAPE (cassette filing system, built-in), RFS >(ROM Filing System, also built in), DFS (you've met), ADFS (see above), TFS >(Telesoftware, with a teletext adaptor), NFS (Econet networking), DNFS >(combined DFS, NFS, and 2nd Processor handler), VFS (Video Filing System, >of Domesday fame), "Advanced" versions of some of these, and various >third-party equivalents. > >> It powered up up but isn't recognizing any keys except the BREAK key. > I ran it for over an hour then one of the rectangular tantalum filter caps >in the PSU blew. Fixing the PSU shouldn't be a problem. Does anyone know >what they use for a keyboard interface (if it even uses one)? or if there's >any schematics posted anywhere for it? > >You want to look at a couple of sites in particular, starting with The BBC >Lives! at http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/bbc/ and The BBC Documentation Project >at http://www.bbcdocs.com/ There you'll find many things, including the >Service Manuals (look under "Essentials"), which include the schematics. > Also 8BS Software at http://8bs.com , where you'll find a nicely >annotated set of pictures of the BBC B motherboard >(http://8bs.com/inbbc.htm). Chris Richardson at 8BS lives not far from me, >and he's scanned a lot of my manuals and contributed them to The BBC >Documentation Project. OK thanks for the pointers. I searched the net but found so many sites that I haven't had time to go throught them all. > >When you power up a working Beeb, it should make a double "beep" and then >display something like > >BBC Microcomputer 32K > >Acorn DFS > >BASIC Nope, that's not what I got. It didn't say anything about BBC or Microcomputer or the amount of memory and it definitely said "OS" twice. I did get the beep then the speaker had a slight buzzing in it. (Possible due the the failing capacitor in the PSU). I was in the process of checking the PSU outputs for noise when the cap blew. It was quite noticeable! > >> > >If you get nothing, check power. If you get a continuous tone and not much >more, or just get a flashing cursor at top left, check the keyboard cable, >IC3, and other keyboard-related stuff. Actually I didn't get a cursor. I wasn't sure if it was supposed to have one or not. > >The way the keyboard works is quite neat. Like almost everything on a >Beeb, it's interrupt-driven (unlike Apples and PETs, which are much slower >-- even allowing for clock speed differences -- becasue they use polling >loops). I wrote the following to explain it on a BBC mailing list >recently, when someone had a faulty one. This particular fault was >heat-related, hence the notes at the end; note that the most common fault >is a broken or mis-fitted 17-way ribbon cable between keyboard and >motherboard or a cracked track near a key: > >A 74LS161 (or 74163, they're interchangable for this purpose) 4-bit >pre-loadable counter is clocked at 1MHz, and its outputs drive a 7445 (or >74145, again they're interchangable for this purpose) one-of-ten decoder. > For each state "0" to "9" generated by the counter, one of the >open-collector outputs of the 7445 is pulled low, and the corresponding >keyboard column goes low. If a key in that column is pressed at the time, >one of the row inputs of a 74LS30 is also pulled low, which signals to the >system VIA on its CA2 handshake pin, and generates an interrupt. > >When the MOS services the interrupt, it uses PA0-PA3 to drive the 74LS161 >like a latch, and tests each column in turn. For each column, it also >selects each row in turn. Each row is connected to one input of a 72LS251 >multiplexer, and by using PA4-PA6 to address the MUX, the MUX output, which >is conected to PA7, can be sampled. When the MUX output is low, you've >found the row and column of the key that was pressed to generate the >interrupt. > >The most likely fault is a cracked track near the counter or MUX; I've seen >similar situations where a crack right beside an IC becomes heat sensitive >(when it warms up, the metal expands and -- counterintuitively -- widens >the crack. Second most likely is the chip itself. > >If all the keys in one column are faulty, suspect the decoder (7445). If >all the keys in several columns are bad, suspect the counter (74LS161). If >some keys in a column are good but some are bad, but all the keys in a row >are bad, suspect the MUX (74LS251). > >If it's just a mixture, suspect the VIA (which is usually socketed, so easy >to swap with the user VIA). Thanks for the description. That's about what I expected. Sounds like I need to find a VIA. I need one for my spares anyway. There are two mylar(?) ribbon cables that connect the keyboard to the main circuit board. Is the wide one the column inputs and the narrow one the row outputs? (Keeping my fingers crossed that it's that simple!) Joe > >-- >Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 12 19:01:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: Can you fix a C-64, or know someone who can? In-Reply-To: <a05111b01ba1d91176afe@[192.168.1.101]> from "Mike Ford" at Dec 11, 2 05:08:10 pm Message-ID: <m18Mdpw-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 348 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021212/6a1d1c36/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 12 19:01:49 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <10212121939.ZM3011@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "pete@dunnington.u-net.com" at Dec 12, 2 07:39:44 pm Message-ID: <m18Me9M-000IzbC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1097 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021212/aa5faea1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 12 19:02:09 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: dryers was Re: Acquired a PDP11/44, but missing M7095 In-Reply-To: <015301c2a17b$ea1d18e0$7d00a8c0@george> from "Robert F. Schaefer" at Dec 11, 2 08:15:09 pm Message-ID: <m18Mdt4-000IzSC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 964 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021212/2369f65f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 12 19:02:30 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021212074044.3b8fdf5e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Dec 12, 2 07:40:44 am Message-ID: <m18Me1p-000IzUC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2115 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021212/5fd5493e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 12 19:12:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021212194332.0f477346@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Dec 12, 2 07:43:32 pm Message-ID: <m18MeLy-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2304 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021212/7335f9a9/attachment.ksh From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Thu Dec 12 19:40:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: The Ne[w|utered] HP (was: RE: The effects of employment) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021212192046.0fe7a7f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FDD8@mwsrv04.microwalt.n l> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021212203617.00d355ac@pop1.epm.net.co> At 07:20 PM 12/12/02, you wrote: It was again confirmed when they threw away the HP name (and outstanding reputation) and renamed it Agilent. > > Joe Agilent still rocks. Agilent is what HP was. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From arlen at acm.org Thu Dec 12 20:10:00 2002 From: arlen at acm.org (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: GenRad tester In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021212192640.0fe73eb8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <BA1EAC24.A657%arlen@acm.org> on 12/12/02 7:26 PM, Joe at rigdonj@cfl.rr.com wrote: > I was the one that asked about the GenRad 2300 Advanced Developement System. I > searched the net and found ONE reference to it. It is a CPM computer but > didn't find anything more than that. I believe this is the FutureData microprocessor development system sold around 1980-83 by GenRad, before Kontron bought the product line from them. It competed with similar high-end engineering tools from Tektronix and HP (their 64000 system). This was a very cool, high-powered development tool in its day, for the popular 8-bit processors like 6802, 8085, Z80. You would edit and assemble your code on the FData. By plugging a 40-pin probe into the target hardware's cpu socket, you'd execute the code in the actual target hardware under control of the FData and its debugging software ("in-circuit emulation"). When you were satisfied with your code you could burn it to eprom and plug it and the processor chip back into the target hardware. These systems were populated with somewhat specific hardware and software to match the target microprocessor system you were designing. For example, the box would use a 6800 cpu card, 6800 in-circuit emulator pod, and native 6800-coded OS for Motorola work; an 8085 cpu, pod, and an 8085-coded OS for Intel development. The proprietary operating system was called RDOS and worked more or less the same for each platform but, as I indicated, the OS and the applications were coded natively for each processor they supported. They also sold a structured Basic compiler called SBasic for the 8085/Z80. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 12 20:29:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: The Ne[w|utered] HP (was: RE: The effects of employment) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021212192046.0fe7a7f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FDD8@mwsrv04.microwalt.n <3.0.6.16.20021212192046.0fe7a7f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3655.4.20.168.113.1039746685.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > It was again confirmed when they threw > away the HP name (and outstanding reputation) and renamed it > Agilent. Actually, although I thought that was terrible at the time, in hindsight I think it was a good thing. If HP is going to run their reputation into the ground, at least it won't take Agilent with it. Lately I've noticed that some of the Agilent facilities around here no longer have "Innovating the HP Way" on their signs. Maybe they are trying to distance themselves from it? My biggest gripe with Agilent is that their recent instruments such as the Infinium series oscilliscopes run Windows. I don't use the things myself, but I've heard horror stories from friends using them. It's a shame that they didn't use Linux, or xBSD. Some of their earlier instruments such as logic analyzers actually acted as NFS and X clients, but the networking capabilities of Windows are a huge step backwards. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Thu Dec 12 20:36:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: Unibus SCSI question References: <v04020a04ba1e94c4171a@[192.168.1.5]> Message-ID: <3DF9485D.45DC5382@compsys.to> >"Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >I've just aquired a tested working Emulex UC17 Unibus SCSI host interface > >from a dealer for $50... don't know if I'm crazy paying so much for old > >Unibus or not! > No, you're not crazy! You just got an AMAZING deal! Jerome Fine replies: I agree! While I have not kept track of Unibus prices, Qbus prices usually have an extra zero - on the right of course. And that would probably still be an excellent deal. Unibus prices are probably a bit higher if anything. For some reason, host adapters for both Qbus and Unibus PDP-11 and VAX have held their value for a long time. And now that the supply of most parts is so low, even though demand has fallen, the price seems to be rising. > >Question is, does anyone have any observations as to any special > >requirements such a card might have? Long time since I've played with any > >Emulex... any reason why it shouldn't work in really ancient hardware, such > >as my 11/20?... something appeals to me about putting a SCSI disk in such > >>an ancient device! > Unfortunatly the manuals on my FTP site look to be for the UC07/08, not the > UC17. Also, I've not heard of anyone putting SCSI on such an old PDP-11, > it will be interesting to hear what your results are. On problem I can > think of is that you'll probably have to toggle in an MSCP bootstrap. If you also have a standard 8" floppy drive, RX01 or even RX02, then RT-11 allows you to booth MSCP in V5.03 after you boot the floppy. However, PLEASE ask someone who knows about the PDP-11/20 if the Unibus backplane can take the UC17!!! The Unibus backplane sometimes had "interesting" aspects for early models. > Please let us know how this goes, like I said, it will be interesting to know. LIKEWISE!!!!!! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From thompson at new.rr.com Thu Dec 12 20:42:00 2002 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: The Ne[w|utered] HP (was: RE: The effects of employment) In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FDD8@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212122042400.4563-100000@malacandra.localnet> On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > I know uses truckloads of Alpha systems, with both VMS and Tru64. When I > told him about the layoffs in the UEG (Unix Engineering Group) task forces, > he said: "Oh. So, assuming they clean out most of their brains, which is > what this sounds like, HOW can they adhere to their claim to full support > until X years after EOL?" > I am currently waiting on the Unix engineering group on two patches. One of which I have found out will be in the 5.1A kit 4, the other, who knows, now that they're laying off. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 12 20:45:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: Unibus SCSI question In-Reply-To: <3DF9485D.45DC5382@compsys.to> References: <v04020a04ba1e94c4171a@[192.168.1.5]> <3DF9485D.45DC5382@compsys.to> Message-ID: <1108.4.20.168.113.1039747579.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > However, PLEASE ask someone who knows about the PDP-11/20 > if the Unibus backplane can take the UC17!!! The Unibus backplane > sometimes had "interesting" aspects for early models. Technically speaking, the UC17 doesn't plug into Unibus, but rather into an SPC slot. A stock 11/20 doesn't have any SPC slots. I don't think you can install a DD11-C or DD11-D backplane into the 11/20 box due to the old-style power distribution, but if you run a Unibus cable to a separate BA11 box with a DD11 backplane, I can't imagine any reason why the UC17 shouldn't work in it. In any case, even if there was something funny about the 11/20 Unibus timing, plugging a UC17 into a DD11-C or -D backplane shouldn't hurt the UC17 unless there are serious problems with the BA11's power supply. From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Dec 12 21:10:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: More Great Finds this week Message-ID: <017301c2a255$7e812d30$3551ef42@oemcomputer> Got the following: 1. Another joystick for the Micro Genius IQ150 Perfect console. ($3) 2. Radio Shack TRS-80 Pocket Computer Cat no. 26-3501, not tested yet. ($2) 3. OT: iMac no KB or mouse with it but it's a 400 MHZ/521k LC/128MBRam/13gig HD/DVD/2 Firewire/ pretty clear blue see-thru color. ($15) model M5521 4. Sega Genesis 32X game unit. ($5) 5. About 8 different mice and 12 mousepads for the collection. (Free to 99 cents) From vaxzilla at jarai.org Thu Dec 12 22:45:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <017301c2a255$7e812d30$3551ef42@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212122040170.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> As seen on Slashdot; an decent read. I'll have to admit that I agree with much of what O'Reilly has to say here: <http://www.openp2p.com/pub/a/p2p/2002/12/11/piracy.html?page=1> Also, I respect those who practice what they preach. ObClassicCmp: <http://www.oreilly.com/openbook/> A few handy older books there, like the TeX one and the Unix Text Processing book. -brian. From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 12 23:00:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212122040170.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> from "Brian Chase" at Dec 12, 2002 08:47:48 PM Message-ID: <200212130502.gBD52Al15058@shell1.aracnet.com> > ObClassicCmp: <http://www.oreilly.com/openbook/> > A few handy older books there, like the TeX one and the Unix Text > Processing book. Cool, there are a couple books there I wouldn't mind 'thumbing' through. Though that TeX book is one of exactly two O'Rielly books I've purchased that I considered to be a waste of money. It's more of a catalogue than a manual. Zane From donm at cts.com Fri Dec 13 00:00:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: SCSI CDROM 'juke box' setup Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0211221705500.88202-100000@crash.cts.com> A while back, I acquired a 7-disk NEC MultiSpin 2Xc drive which uses a SCSI interface. With no particular difficulty, I installed the WD SCSI card and the drive, the CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT patches and quickly had access to the drive. Well, I had access to the first disk in the drive. The existence of the remaining six were not acknowledged! The WD diagnostic program sees all seven, so I tend to doubt that it is a SCSI problem, but nothing that I have done relative to MSCDEX has had any useful effects either. For perspective, this testing is being done on a Pentium II 133MHz equipped motherboard with 16Mb memory running PCDOS 6.3. I have yet to try it with W98. Can anyone offer any hints, kinks, experience, or clues of any variety as to how to access the remaining 86% of this 'juke box'? Thanks! - don From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Dec 13 00:20:01 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212122040170.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> Message-ID: <005d01c2a26f$f5110c80$1843cd18@D73KSM11> > As seen on Slashdot; an decent read. I'll have to admit that I agree > with much of what O'Reilly has to say here: > <http://www.openp2p.com/pub/a/p2p/2002/12/11/piracy.html?page=1> > I became dubious as soon as he trotted out the "sample-then-buy" myth. While this argument might not have been laughable 4-5 years ago before CD burners were cheap and widespread, it's preposterous today. The rest is largely "blame the victim" drivel in the form of "you-haven't-given-us-what-we-want-in-the-form-we-want-it-so-that-justifies-our- stealing-it-from-you-until-you-do" -- or as O'Reilly cutely puts it "Give the Wookie what he wants." If you buy that, then you probably subscribe to that mainstay of the hacker apocrypha that Jon Johansen created DeCSS because he wanted to view DVDs on a Linux machine. Right. -W From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Dec 13 00:46:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <005d01c2a26f$f5110c80$1843cd18@D73KSM11> References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212122040170.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> <005d01c2a26f$f5110c80$1843cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <32851.64.169.63.74.1039762123.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I became dubious as soon as he trotted out the "sample-then-buy" myth. > While > this argument might not have been laughable 4-5 years ago before CD > burners were cheap and widespread, it's preposterous today. Why is that? Five years ago, when a friend would make me a copy of a CD and I liked it, I would go to the record store and buy one. Today, I do the same thing. I'm sure that not everyone does that, but presumably not everyone did it five years ago either. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Dec 13 01:21:01 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212122040170.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> <005d01c2a26f$f5110c80$1843cd18@D73KSM11> <32851.64.169.63.74.1039762123.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <008301c2a278$7721e340$1843cd18@D73KSM11> > > I became dubious as soon as he trotted out the "sample-then-buy" myth. > > While > > this argument might not have been laughable 4-5 years ago before CD > > burners were cheap and widespread, it's preposterous today. > > Why is that? Five years ago, when a friend would make me a copy of a CD > and I liked it, I would go to the record store and buy one. Today, I do > the same thing. > > I'm sure that not everyone does that, but presumably not everyone did it > five years ago either. > You are a rare breed of a bygone age. The college market, for example, a prior mainstay of music sales, is largely gone. At most campus dorms you can get any current album burned by a fellow student for $1.00 plus media. And this is what they do. Why? Well, the money, bolstered by the fact that college campuses are infected by a "nothing is ever really wrong" moral relativism where only a fool would pay an extra $10 for the real thing. Five years ago you probably had a job, disposable income, your friend could afford a $500 burner with media at $2 per CD, and you didn't mind waiting for a burn at 2X. Given the costs, I doubt there were that many burners at colleges then, and even fewer people in the burning biz. -W From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Dec 13 02:17:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <005d01c2a26f$f5110c80$1843cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212122304420.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > As seen on Slashdot; an decent read. I'll have to admit that I agree > > with much of what O'Reilly has to say here: > > <http://www.openp2p.com/pub/a/p2p/2002/12/11/piracy.html?page=1> > > I became dubious as soon as he trotted out the "sample-then-buy" > myth. While this argument might not have been laughable 4-5 years ago > before CD burners were cheap and widespread, it's preposterous today. Speaking for my personal CD purchasing habits, I'd have to say O'Reilly's observations match my practices. For one, I don't like "Top 40" or mainstream music. Most all of it is crap. And nearly none of the music I enjoy gets played on the radio stations in my area; so my ability to find out about music I like is somewhat hampered. If someone recommends a song or a band to me, they'll often point me in the direction of some of their MP3s. If I like their work, I buy their CDs. > The rest is largely "blame the victim" drivel in the form of > "you-haven't-given-us-what-we-want-in-the-form-we-want-it-so-that- > justifies-our-stealing-it-from-you-until-you-do" -- or as O'Reilly > cutely puts it "Give the Wookie what he wants." I think his main point was that the recording and entertainment industries need to get their acts together and figure out a good way to open up their catalogs and provide reasonably priced services to their customers. His free-TV vs basic cable vs premium cable is a great way to describe it. The models being adopted now with the pay-per-play stuff are just annoying. That approach is hardly any better than having to go to a movie rental place (and the quality of video tape and DVDs will be better and those don't require me to have a bunch of drive space and to have to wait a couple of hours to download the film). Never underestimate the bandwidth of your Toyota Corolla speeding back from Blockbuster Video filled with VHS tapes and DVDs. > If you buy that, then you probably subscribe to that mainstay of the > hacker apocrypha that Jon Johansen created DeCSS because he wanted to > view DVDs on a Linux machine. Right. Whether it was Johansen's intention or not, I don't know. In my opinion, he at least had the right to play DVDs on his Linux system; there was nothing available to do this, so he used his head and figured out a way to do it. AFAIK, I don't believe he ever distributed any illegal copies of DVDs, did he? In the end, he can only be judged based on his actions. Now, the MPAA folks say that reverse engineering their lousy CSS encryption is a crime. I think that's absurd, and I'm really surprised that /anyone/ on /this/ list would agree with the idea that reverse engineering something is, in itself, a criminal act. I'd add that I'm speaking as someone whose livelihood depends on the financial success of those blockbuster films, given that I'm employed on the production side of a major Hollywood motion picture studio. We're finishing a record year; it was sometime in July or August that we passed the $1 billion mark with our box office revenues. I don't know what the end of year total will be, but it won't be insignificant. So, I think we'll "survive", at least if more effort can be spent on figuring out how to reach a profitable compromise in our services to our customers. Hopefully we can do this before we imprison them all, either literally in jails, or in spirit, by allowing the DMCA to continue to exist as a law. My $0.02. -brian. From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Dec 13 03:13:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: SCSI CDROM 'juke box' setup In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0211221705500.88202-100000@crash.cts.com> References: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0211221705500.88202-100000@crash.cts.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212130304400.1918-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > A while back, I acquired a 7-disk NEC MultiSpin 2Xc drive which uses a > SCSI interface. With no particular difficulty, I installed the WD SCSI > card and the drive, the CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT patches and quickly > had access to the drive. Well, I had access to the first disk in the > drive. The existence of the remaining six were not acknowledged! The > WD diagnostic program sees all seven, so I tend to doubt that it is a > SCSI problem, but nothing that I have done relative to MSCDEX has had > any useful effects either. > > For perspective, this testing is being done on a Pentium II 133MHz > equipped motherboard with 16Mb memory running PCDOS 6.3. I have yet to > try it with W98. > > Can anyone offer any hints, kinks, experience, or clues of any variety > as to how to access the remaining 86% of this 'juke box'? I dunno if your SCSI adapter's drivers support multiple LUNs, but thats what these changers need in order to support multiple discs. It sounds like the board itself detects all of the LUNs, so it may just be a software setting that needs to be changed. Once the ASPI software and cdrom driver detect all the LUNs, MSCDEX can be configured to add a drive letter for each disc. I've used many older Adaptec and BusLogic/BusTek boards with similar cdrom changers without any troubles. One thing to keep in mind on the NEC cdrom changers, is that their audio playback quality sucks. I have 3 of the 4Xc changers I use for data, but they are terrible for audio playback. OTOH, some of the Pioneer cdrom changers such as the 6 disc 604X from the same time period have excellent audio playback, but they do have some issues with multi session and "enhanced" audio discs. I've heard updated ROMs are/were available to fix the problems with the Pioneer drives, but so far, I've not been able to obtain them. -Toth From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Dec 13 03:21:01 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212122304420.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> Message-ID: <00ab01c2a289$4dda0bf0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> > On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > > As seen on Slashdot; an decent read. I'll have to admit that I agree > > > with much of what O'Reilly has to say here: > > > <http://www.openp2p.com/pub/a/p2p/2002/12/11/piracy.html?page=1> > > > > I became dubious as soon as he trotted out the "sample-then-buy" > > myth. While this argument might not have been laughable 4-5 years ago > > before CD burners were cheap and widespread, it's preposterous today. > > Speaking for my personal CD purchasing habits, I'd have to say > O'Reilly's observations match my practices. For one, I don't like > "Top 40" or mainstream music. Most all of it is crap. And nearly none > of the music I enjoy gets played on the radio stations in my area; so > my ability to find out about music I like is somewhat hampered. If > someone recommends a song or a band to me, they'll often point me in > the direction of some of their MP3s. If I like their work, I buy > their CDs. > You are to be lauded, but you are in a shrinking minority. > > The rest is largely "blame the victim" drivel in the form of > > "you-haven't-given-us-what-we-want-in-the-form-we-want-it-so-that- > > justifies-our-stealing-it-from-you-until-you-do" -- or as O'Reilly > > cutely puts it "Give the Wookie what he wants." > > I think his main point was that the recording and entertainment > industries need to get their acts together and figure out a good way to > open up their catalogs and provide reasonably priced services to their > customers. His free-TV vs basic cable vs premium cable is a great way > to describe it. The models being adopted now with the pay-per-play > stuff are just annoying. That approach is hardly any better than having > to go to a movie rental place (and the quality of video tape and DVDs > will be better and those don't require me to have a bunch of drive space > and to have to wait a couple of hours to download the film). Never > underestimate the bandwidth of your Toyota Corolla speeding back from > Blockbuster Video filled with VHS tapes and DVDs. > I understood his point, but I don't agree that the studios/record companies are obligated to do anything or face having their content stolen. There's a difference between being annoyed and therefore not buying something, and being annoyed and using that as a justification for stealing. The argument some make that the studios/record companies need to pander to those who would otherwise steal from them really doesn't fly. > > If you buy that, then you probably subscribe to that mainstay of the > > hacker apocrypha that Jon Johansen created DeCSS because he wanted to > > view DVDs on a Linux machine. Right. > > Whether it was Johansen's intention or not, I don't know. In my > opinion, he at least had the right to play DVDs on his Linux system; > there was nothing available to do this, so he used his head and figured > out a way to do it. AFAIK, I don't believe he ever distributed any > illegal copies of DVDs, did he? In the end, he can only be judged based > on his actions. Now, the MPAA folks say that reverse engineering their > lousy CSS encryption is a crime. I think that's absurd, and I'm really > surprised that /anyone/ on /this/ list would agree with the idea that > reverse engineering something is, in itself, a criminal act. > No, he didn't, but he did distribute DeCSS, and then others did. The DCMA doesn't preclude reverse engineering CSS for purely encryption research or security testing, and I'm certain the MPAA has not said otherwise. > I'd add that I'm speaking as someone whose livelihood depends on the > financial success of those blockbuster films, given that I'm employed on > the production side of a major Hollywood motion picture studio. We're > finishing a record year; it was sometime in July or August that we > passed the $1 billion mark with our box office revenues. I don't know > what the end of year total will be, but it won't be insignificant. > So, I think we'll "survive", at least if more effort can be spent on > figuring out how to reach a profitable compromise in our services to our > customers. Hopefully we can do this before we imprison them all, either > literally in jails, or in spirit, by allowing the DMCA to continue to > exist as a law. > > My $0.02. > > -brian. > The movie biz is right about where the music biz was 5 years ago. DVD burners are around $300-400, the media is approaching $1 per disk and connectivity speeds are increasing. We will see. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 13 04:04:01 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <005d01c2a26f$f5110c80$1843cd18@D73KSM11> References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212122040170.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021213015444.030ca520@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 10:22 PM 12/12/02 -0800, you wrote: > > As seen on Slashdot; an decent read. I'll have to admit that I agree > > with much of what O'Reilly has to say here: > > <http://www.openp2p.com/pub/a/p2p/2002/12/11/piracy.html?page=1> > > > I became dubious as soon as he trotted out the "sample-then-buy" > myth. While >this argument might not have been laughable 4-5 years ago before CD >burners were >cheap and widespread, it's preposterous today. The rest is largely "blame the >victim" drivel in the form of Road Runner, my underlying ISP is pushing a service called Rhapsody, which I caught the last few days of before it went to paid (like $10 a month and 99 cents a burnt track, unlimited radio and specific song streams at decent bit rates). I've bought like 5 CDs from using that (Sneaker Pimps, Becoming X, Blue Man Group, Audio, Itzhak Perleman live in the fiddlers house, and more). It was just so neat to use, about a second of delay between clicking on any song and it starting and playing full length, fast searches, and three windows open, Rhapsody, allmusicguide, and ebay or BMG etc. Open text is really growing too, My wife is glued to her Palm M515 (tiny and convenient), which has about 4 books in at all times. Now the point I wholely agree on, the top 40 mainstream artists are going to get ripped off, to some extent, but for everybody else its the lifeblood of exposure. My belief is that Sony et al are not worried about bootlegs of Brittany Spears as much as having NO CONTROL over who the public picks as the next pop start. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 13 04:23:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: Pulling -12VDC from thin air (was Re: MicroVAX II) In-Reply-To: <20021125004608.G1222@MissSophie> Message-ID: <20021213102547.78188.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jochen Kunz <jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> wrote: > I second that. I know a collector who knows nothing about hardware and > how it works.... When I told him that I builded a simple voltage > inverter (charge pump) to make the RS232 work on the Sun 4/600 MP he > looked like it was black magic to convert +12V to -12V. (The Sun 4/600 > MP boards needs -12V for the RS232, even -5V are not enough. As I > mounted this board in a Sun 3/60 case that doesn't provide -12V, I could > not use a serial console.) Interesting to learn about the 4/600 board and the 3/60 case. Long ago, I wondered if the two could work together (I _have_ the 3/60 and I almost had the 4/600 board). If you'd have known to ask, I could have provided you with a +5VDC to -12VDC converter module. It's about 20mm x 30mm x 3mm. We had to put them on the Qbus COMBOARD because the original design assumed you could pull -12VDC off some Qbus pin somewhere, and I suspect that it is not the case for all Qbus enclosures (don't know where it is available and where it isn't). I have several new on the anti-static mat they shipped in. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Dec 13 04:39:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: BBC Acorn" (Dec 13, 0:57) References: <m18Me9M-000IzbC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <10212131013.ZM6201@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 13, 0:57, Tony Duell wrote: > One you missed (I am not sure if you count it as 3rd party...) is the > IEEE-FS. It was used with the IEEE-488 interface (which, IIRC, was > technically a 3rd party product sold by Acorn [1]) and allowed you to > open 'files' to devices on the IEEE-488 bus, etc. Yes, it was sold by Acorn, and it was in the official price list. It was unusual in that it was sold both by Acorn and by the original devloper, Intelligent Interfaces. The manual says it was developed jointly, so I imagine that's why. The oldest price list I can lay my hands on quickly is January 1988, and it lists it at UKP325.00. > [1] Or at least that's what I was told when I asked a friend of mine who > worked at Acorn about getting a schematic for this interface. I then > found the schematics had been published in Wireless World... :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Dec 13 04:40:35 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:32 2005 Subject: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: Joe <rigdonj@cfl.rr.com> "Re: BBC Acorn" (Dec 12, 19:43) References: <Joe <rigdonj@cfl.rr.com> <ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: BBC Acorn" (Dec 11 23:50)> <m18MGca-000IzIC@p850ug1> <3.0.6.16.20021212074044.3b8fdf5e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021212194332.0f477346@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <10212131006.ZM6193@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 12, 19:43, Joe wrote: > Nope, all the RAMS are soldered directly to the board and no solder flux. I'm sure it was built with 32K and that appears to agree with the US model number. Yes, I'm sure it is, I was just pointing out that in the general case, amount of memory is not a good way to tell. AFAIK, Acorn sold only Model Bs in the States. > It's not running at the moment but when it was it said soemthing like: > > "Acron version 2.1 > DFS OS > BASIC OS" > > There's also a EPROM that says "DFS OS" in it so I think it's supposed to say that. I've not seen a US model start up, but I expect Acorn removed the "BBC Microcomputer" part for trademark reasons (in many countries outside the UK, BBC is a trademark of Brown Boveri & Cie, and anyway it wouldn't mean the same in the States). Presumably they changed the other strings too. How many (EP)ROMs are in it? Do they have any numbers on them? > OK thanks for the pointers. I searched the net but found so many sites that I haven't had time to go throught them all. If you're looking for repair information, the ones I listed are good places to start. You might also consider joining the BBC mailing list. If you want to, send a message with "subscribe bbc-micro" in the body, to majordomo at cloud9.co.uk. > Nope, that's not what I got. It didn't say anything about BBC or Microcomputer or the amount of memory and it definitely said "OS" twice. I did get the beep then the speaker had a slight buzzing in it. (Possible due the the failing capacitor in the PSU). I was in the process of checking the PSU outputs for noise when the cap blew. It was quite noticeable! Maybe they changed the banners more than I thought. > Actually I didn't get a cursor. I wasn't sure if it was supposed to have one or not. Yes, you should. > Thanks for the description. That's about what I expected. Sounds like I need to find a VIA. I need one for my spares anyway. There are two mylar(?) ribbon cables that connect the keyboard to the main circuit board. Is the wide one the column inputs and the narrow one the row outputs? (Keeping my fingers crossed that it's that simple!) I doubt if it's that simple. UK models don't use mylar ribbons, they use a single 17-way notched IDT cable with a 0.1" pitch, and with a single-row Molex IDT header at each end. If the cable is damaged you can use ordinary 34-way cable with 34-way 2-row IDC headers; just ignore the second row. Download the service manual; it has the keyboard diagram, with pinouts. Fix the PSU first, obviously. The Beeb is a bit choosy about power regulation, and if the 5V and 0V connectors (of which there are three pairs) don't all make good connections to the board, you can get strange faults because the voltage may be too low at some points on the board. The red and black wires are +5V and 0V respectively. There's a purple wire for -5V, but this is only used for the serial port and audio amp. There's a +12V output but only on the AMP connector at the front, as it's only needed for peripherals. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 13 05:08:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: More dumb VAX 11/750 questions In-Reply-To: <20021124005119.B846342CA4@smtp-relay.omnis.com> Message-ID: <20021213111008.85640.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Alan Perry <alanp@snowmoose.com> wrote: > Finding this list has encouraged me to try and get some stuff together > on my VAX... > Q3. Right now the memory slots have M8750s CJs in both end slots and 6 > six National Semiconductor 753 1M boards in between. Does it have to be > this way? I have two spare M8750s. Are there any advantages between > the DEC memory boards and the NS boards? The only advantage in the old days was that 3rd-party memory boards were substantially cheaper, but OTOH, DEC FS could decline to service your machine unless it was 100% DEC I don't know the NS boards by number, but I know that some later 3rd party boards used 41256 chips rather than 4164 chips - 25% of the power consumption. Won't matter lots and lots in an 11/750, but it made our 11/730 run cooler. If you happened to replace all 8 1MB boards with newer ones, I could imagine that the drop in power consumption would be noticable on your monthly electric bill (presuming you leave your 11/750 on 24-7). Armed with schematics (originals or reverse-engineered), one could conceivably remove the 41256s from one of those 3rd party boards (EMC?) and dead-bug some 44256s in there. Having moved from two banks of 4164s to 2 banks of 41256s to 4 banks of 44256s with the same DRAM controller chip (74S409) in the COMBOARD line (128KB -> 2MB), I know that you can make that subsitution in a robust memory design (ECC bits notwithstanding). DEC 1MB memory cards had 156 4164s (39-bits wide, 4 banks x 64Kbit = 256KW with ECC). The EMC(?) card I'm thinking of was 75% bare and had two rows of 41256s chips (39 DRAM chips in total). If one could do the substutition, it would have 10 44256s with one bit going to waste. Considering that the 44256s we used with the VAXBI COMBOARD were 44C256s, that's not much power at all, especially not compared to 150+ NMOS chips. Not precisely original, but a lot cheaper than designing (and burning) your own 1MB memory cards from scratch. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Dec 13 05:32:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: dryers was Re: Acquired a PDP11/44, but missing M7095 References: <m18Mdt4-000IzSC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <001301c2a29b$9d378fd0$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" <ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 7:41 PM Subject: Re: dryers was Re: Acquired a PDP11/44, but missing M7095 > > > > The old style dryers that I've looked at used 120V timers connected between > > one hot leg and the chassis ground. It might not live up to the latest and > > greatest code, but I was never shocked by one. YMMV. > > I think the main hazard is if the earth/neutral wire becomes > open-circuit, then the frame of the drier becomes live via the timer > motor windings, which are not that high impedance. I don't like large, > live, metal objects around, particularly if there's also water about (and > this would be likely near a clothes drier). > > That's why there are separate neutral and earth wires, even if they are > then connected together at one point in the installation. If the neutral > wire breaks, the device fails to work, but it doesn't become live. If the > earth wire breaks, the device carries on working, but will become live > _if another fault develops_. Combine the 2 into one wire, and if that > breaks, the device stops work _and_ becomes live. I understand the problems it can cause. My problems with these sort of regulatory agencies are their complete arrogance and flighty nature. Every three years, they come out with a new Code. Which is fine, but they absolutely *insist* that the current Code is the most safe, and that all others are unsafe. The problem I see with that statement is that they said the exact same thing three years earlier, and look what became of that... I just can't see a committee publishing the best of anything, let alone something as complex as this. Note: I do think the Code gets better and better. I follow it with all my work. Please read, understand, and follow the Code when working with electricity! > > -tony Bob From hansp at aconit.org Fri Dec 13 06:10:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: Freeware for VAX! Message-ID: <3DF9CE9B.2070504@aconit.org> I found this on a recent CUO/DECUS mailing: Freeware for Vax Computer Communications Limited (CCL) the UK developer of Electronic Document Distribution software for HP Open VMS, has announced the availability of a Freeware version of its software. The Freeware version is available to companies that are still using OPENVMS on the VAX hardware platform. The software allows data to be sent via Fax, Telex, E-mail (with Lotus Notes and Microsoft Exchange interfaces) EDI and Text messaging to Mobile Phones. Further information about their solution can be obtained from CCL's web site: www.ccl.co.uk From dtwright at uiuc.edu Fri Dec 13 08:50:01 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <008301c2a278$7721e340$1843cd18@D73KSM11> References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212122040170.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> <005d01c2a26f$f5110c80$1843cd18@D73KSM11> <32851.64.169.63.74.1039762123.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <008301c2a278$7721e340$1843cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <20021213145253.GE3299592@uiuc.edu> Wayne M. Smith said: > > > You are a rare breed of a bygone age. The college market, for example, a > prior mainstay of music sales, is largely gone. At most campus dorms you > can get any current album burned by a fellow student for $1.00 plus media. > And this is what they do. Why? Well, the money, bolstered by the fact that > college campuses are infected by a "nothing is ever really wrong" moral > relativism where only a fool would pay an extra $10 for the real thing. Really? Where do you get these statistics? Most things I have read contradict what you are saying and reinforce the "most people sample then buy" assumption. If you have a source for these numbers I would be quite interested to read it. - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Fri Dec 13 09:37:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: Value of VAX ? Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C75D@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Hey All, Just a slightly offtopic one here. What should I be paying for a used VAX 4000, 128MB, with an extra 128MB as spare? Machine looks good, and comes with two BA440's (one with the machine, and the second one for extended storage.) Pse reply *off-list* - enough offtopic clutter as-is already :) Thanks, Fred From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 13 09:53:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <005d01c2a26f$f5110c80$1843cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212122350340.10943-100000@siconic.com> On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > I became dubious as soon as he trotted out the "sample-then-buy" myth. While > this argument might not have been laughable 4-5 years ago before CD burners were > cheap and widespread, it's preposterous today. The rest is largely "blame the > victim" drivel in the form of > "you-haven't-given-us-what-we-want-in-the-form-we-want-it-so-that-justifies-our- > stealing-it-from-you-until-you-do" -- or as O'Reilly cutely puts it "Give the > Wookie what he wants." Hi Wayne. I don't find it preposterous at all. I burned one CD of Napster-derived Jimi Hendrix music that I liked (and passed a couple copies around). I bought probably 10-15 CDs based on music I had discovered through Napster. I reward artists that make music I like by buying their albums. I suspect I am not alone. Ever since Napster went away I have returned to my normal buying habits of 1-2 CDs per 6 months. The drivel being played on the radio does not compel me to go to the store. > If you buy that, then you probably subscribe to that > mainstay of the hacker apocrypha that Jon Johansen created DeCSS because he > wanted to view DVDs on a Linux machine. Right. Yes, I buy that. There is nothing wrong with DeCSS, just like there is nothing wrong with a radio scanner, a lockpick set, a gun, etc. They are all just tools. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 13 09:56:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212122304420.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212122357341.10943-100000@siconic.com> On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > on his actions. Now, the MPAA folks say that reverse engineering their > lousy CSS encryption is a crime. I think that's absurd, and I'm really > surprised that /anyone/ on /this/ list would agree with the idea that > reverse engineering something is, in itself, a criminal act. I have to second that. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Fri Dec 13 10:04:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C75F@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > > > on his actions. Now, the MPAA folks say that reverse > engineering their > > lousy CSS encryption is a crime. I think that's absurd, > and I'm really > > surprised that /anyone/ on /this/ list would agree with the > idea that > > reverse engineering something is, in itself, a criminal act. > > I have to second that. Me too. Reverse engineering itsef is not a crime.. what you )can( do with the )results( _could_ be a crime. --fred From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Fri Dec 13 10:05:35 2002 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: WinPort LaserJet Accelerator Card Message-ID: <3DFA05B5.DC8B1E7F@comcast.net> I picked up one of these yesterday for $25. And it still has the original retail sticker, of $99.99 on it. :) Turns out, it is unused even! the two cards and 5 1/4 floppy envelopes are still sealed... Anyway, to my point. I plan on using it in the docking station of my Thinkpad 760EL (running Win98), plugged into a DecLaser 2100 plus. IIRC, the DecLaser 2100 is just a HP LaserJet II with different plastic body panels, right? I has a 16 bit ISA card to go in the PC, and an adapter card that goes in the Optional I/O slot of the printer. It also keeps the normal parallel printer cable in place, for regular operational mode. Now, the manual only mentions Win3.1; not even NT 3.5. Has anyone tried this under Win98? How about NT4? And how about sharing it over the network? Hopefully I'll get the time to set it up and try it today. First, I have to dig out that little Digital 486 I have sitting around to transfer the drivers to 3 1/2 floppy! Seeing the 5 1/4 floppy was a bit of a surprise... Thinking out loud... I wonder if I'll end up having to turn that desktop 486 into a Win3.11 print server? :) Hmmm, would Solaris or NetBSD know what to do with it? -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Fri Dec 13 10:09:00 2002 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212122350340.10943-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <3DFA0707.544368D@comcast.net> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > Hi Wayne. > > I don't find it preposterous at all. I burned one CD of Napster-derived > Jimi Hendrix music that I liked (and passed a couple copies around). I > bought probably 10-15 CDs based on music I had discovered through > Napster. > > I reward artists that make music I like by buying their albums. I suspect > I am not alone. > > Ever since Napster went away I have returned to my normal buying habits of > 1-2 CDs per 6 months. The drivel being played on the radio does not > compel me to go to the store. > I'm like Sellam here. I have bought quite a few CDs, based on hearing a song or two from the album via Napster. Granted, I'm one of those people who look for that album in the used rack first, before resorting to a buying new copy. It is a form of recycling; but I wonder what exactly do the record labels think of me for that? I also believe that new audio CDs are still overpriced. Doesn't stop me from buying one, though, if I can't find a used copy. -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Dec 13 10:11:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: New finds this week / Cheap to a good home Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212131058200.12274-100000@ibm-ps850.purdueriots.com> I managed to get a few fun things to play with this week - courtesy of Purdue University Salvage/Surplus ** Finds ** Lear-Sigler AMD-3A+ **actually working** (compared to my ADM-5) $free 4 x Pioneer CD CDV LD Player CLD-2400 (LaserDisk player) $free OT: 2 x SYMBIOS RAID arrays - 10 drives/controller, 2 controllers/array with the 4GB narrow scsi drives in it, total of 144GB of RAID-5 pulled from an NCR Teradata (worldmark 5100M) system 2 x NCR Worldmark 5100M nodes with 4GB Ram, 32xPentium Pro 200MHz processors each. Now, it's time to help with its Linux port - doesn't quite boot yet. Features a pair of 32bit Microchannel busses per node. Technically, I guess, it's still Purdue's, but I get basically exclusive access to it (and free power/network). I'm thinking about going back to grab a pair of marked 'BAD' ADM-5's from there that might be useful for parts to repair my ADM-5. ** Cheap to a good home ** Assuming all the Laserdisk players all work - they just have a few cosmetic scratches - I'm willing to part with two of them. First two replies get them for $10 + shipping. If they don't all work (as far as I can tell without owning a laserdisk - they should also play CDs) then I'll be offering less of them I guess... Pat Lafayette, IN, USA -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 13 10:14:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <10212131006.ZM6193@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <Joe <rigdonj@cfl.rr.com> <Joe <rigdonj@cfl.rr.com> <ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: BBC Acorn" (Dec 11 23:50)> <m18MGca-000IzIC@p850ug1> <3.0.6.16.20021212074044.3b8fdf5e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021212194332.0f477346@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021213112041.0f6794d2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:06 AM 12/13/02 GMT, Pete wrote: > >How many (EP)ROMs are in it? Do they have any numbers on them? There are five sockets in a row (IC71 - IC75) but IC 75 is empty. IC 71 is an EPROM but the label in missing. IC 72 is a Hitachci PROM marked HN613128PD11 View2-1 Japan (c)ACORNSOFT, IC 73 is an EPROM and is marked DNFS 201666, IC 74 is an EPROM and is marked US BASIC 201667. Behind that row is IC 52, it's marked VI (I THINK, it's stylized and hard to read), then 403 V 2006 VC 2023 201647 (c)ACORN COMPUTER KOREA-AE. I think that's all of the custom ICs. > >> OK thanks for the pointers. I searched the net but found so many >sites that I haven't had time to go throught them all. > >If you're looking for repair information, the ones I listed are good places >to start. You might also consider joining the BBC mailing list. If you >want to, send a message with "subscribe bbc-micro" in the body, to >majordomo at cloud9.co.uk. > >> Nope, that's not what I got. It didn't say anything about BBC or >Microcomputer or the amount of memory and it definitely said "OS" twice. I >did get the beep then the speaker had a slight buzzing in it. (Possible due >the the failing capacitor in the PSU). I was in the process of checking >the PSU outputs for noise when the cap blew. It was quite noticeable! > >Maybe they changed the banners more than I thought. > >> Actually I didn't get a cursor. I wasn't sure if it was supposed to >have one or not. > >Yes, you should. Hmm. Sounds like it's not finishing the boot sequence. Joe From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 13 10:16:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <00ab01c2a289$4dda0bf0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212122358342.10943-100000@siconic.com> On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > Speaking for my personal CD purchasing habits, I'd have to say > > O'Reilly's observations match my practices. For one, I don't like > > "Top 40" or mainstream music. Most all of it is crap. And nearly none > > of the music I enjoy gets played on the radio stations in my area; so > > my ability to find out about music I like is somewhat hampered. If > > someone recommends a song or a band to me, they'll often point me in > > the direction of some of their MP3s. If I like their work, I buy > > their CDs. > > > You are to be lauded, but you are in a shrinking minority. Wayne, I can't buy your argument for the same reason I can't believe anything the RIAA or MPAA or any of those silly acronym-based organizations say. They don't back them up with hard data, because if they did, we would probably find that sales are only increasing. When the recording industry is willing to allow an independent auditor to check its books and report the findings, then I'll believe it. Until then, I don't take their word for anything. Also, I think it's pretty petty for the recording industry especially to be griping about losing sales, especially when it robs most recording artists blind anyway. But that's another (and even more off-topic) thread. > I understood his point, but I don't agree that the studios/record > companies are obligated to do anything or face having their content > stolen. There's a difference between being annoyed and therefore not > buying something, and being annoyed and using that as a justification > for stealing. The argument some make that the studios/record companies > need to pander to those who would otherwise steal from them really > doesn't fly. Well, we are basically dealing with human behavior here, and no matter how much pissing and moaning and bitching and griping by the recording industry and no matter how many silly laws that do not at all cater to the general benefit of society are passed, people will still do what people do. The trick is to figure out how to make money from it, rather than being completely obnoxious about it as the recording industry has been so far. O'Reilly was right on, and history will prove him (and all the others striking the same chord) right. > > lousy CSS encryption is a crime. I think that's absurd, and I'm really > > surprised that /anyone/ on /this/ list would agree with the idea that > > reverse engineering something is, in itself, a criminal act. > > > No, he didn't, but he did distribute DeCSS, and then others did. The DCMA > doesn't preclude reverse engineering CSS for purely encryption research or > security testing, and I'm certain the MPAA has not said otherwise. But it does preclude distributing that research, and I can't believe you could support that provision. > The movie biz is right about where the music biz was 5 years ago. DVD > burners are around $300-400, the media is approaching $1 per disk and > connectivity speeds are increasing. We will see. The economy is also right about where it was 5 years ago. People just don't have the money they did in 1999 (I certainly don't). The correlation is more than a coincidence. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 13 10:24:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: OT: Re: OT: Re: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <3DFA0707.544368D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212130022200.10943-100000@siconic.com> On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Granted, I'm one of those people who look for that album in the > used rack first, before resorting to a buying new copy. It is a form of Ditto. I don't believe in paying more than $13 for a CD. > recycling; but I wonder what exactly do the record labels think of me > for that? They fought over this as well several years ago. I believe they lost, and they get no revenues. Apparently, they are still griping about it though: http://www.mp3newswire.net/stories/2002/usedcd.html > I also believe that new audio CDs are still overpriced. Doesn't > stop me from buying one, though, if I can't find a used copy. Me too. Though it would have to be pretty damn good music for me to buy it at over $13. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 13 10:28:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: GenRad tester In-Reply-To: <BA1EAC24.A657%arlen@acm.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20021212192640.0fe73eb8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021213112415.48d7be42@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Arlen, Thanks for the info. That's kind of what I thought it was. It sounds like an interesting syustem but I have too many projects already. Joe At 09:12 PM 12/12/02 -0500, Arlen Michaels wrote: >on 12/12/02 7:26 PM, Joe at rigdonj@cfl.rr.com wrote: > >> I was the one that asked about the GenRad 2300 Advanced Developement System. I >> searched the net and found ONE reference to it. It is a CPM computer but >> didn't find anything more than that. > >I believe this is the FutureData microprocessor development system sold >around 1980-83 by GenRad, before Kontron bought the product line from them. >It competed with similar high-end engineering tools from Tektronix and HP >(their 64000 system). > >This was a very cool, high-powered development tool in its day, for the >popular 8-bit processors like 6802, 8085, Z80. You would edit and assemble >your code on the FData. By plugging a 40-pin probe into the target >hardware's cpu socket, you'd execute the code in the actual target hardware >under control of the FData and its debugging software ("in-circuit >emulation"). When you were satisfied with your code you could burn it to >eprom and plug it and the processor chip back into the target hardware. > >These systems were populated with somewhat specific hardware and software to >match the target microprocessor system you were designing. For example, the >box would use a 6800 cpu card, 6800 in-circuit emulator pod, and native >6800-coded OS for Motorola work; an 8085 cpu, pod, and an 8085-coded OS for >Intel development. The proprietary operating system was called RDOS and >worked more or less the same for each platform but, as I indicated, the OS >and the applications were coded natively for each processor they supported. >They also sold a structured Basic compiler called SBasic for the 8085/Z80. > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 13 10:31:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: Televideo 901 was Re: New finds this week / Cheap to a good home In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212131058200.12274-100000@ibm-ps850.purduer iots.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021213113726.585fcb34@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:16 AM 12/13/02 -0500, Pat wrote: >I managed to get a few fun things to play with this week - courtesy of >Purdue University Salvage/Surplus > >** Finds ** > >Lear-Sigler AMD-3A+ **actually working** (compared to my ADM-5) $free Speaking of LS terminals. I spotted a Televideo 901 last week. It looked like a Lear Sigler ADM (something). Does anyone know if it was built by LS? Joe From fernande at internet1.net Fri Dec 13 10:39:01 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: New finds this week / Cheap to a good home References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212131058200.12274-100000@ibm-ps850.purdueriots.com> Message-ID: <3DFA0D22.7040102@internet1.net> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Assuming all the Laserdisk players all work - they just have a few > cosmetic scratches - I'm willing to part with two of them. First two > replies get them for $10 + shipping. If they don't all work (as far as I > can tell without owning a laserdisk - they should also play CDs) then I'll > be offering less of them I guess... > > Pat > Lafayette, IN, USA What brand and model? My Pioneer plays cd's, but it has a cd drawer within the laserdisc drawer. I like using it for cds better than my DVD player! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From sloboyko at yahoo.com Fri Dec 13 10:43:01 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: Televideo 901 was Re: New finds this week / Cheap to a good home In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021213113726.585fcb34@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20021213164542.28726.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> The ADM-3A+ is a very nice looking terminal with a terrible looking (but definitely "period" font. I have two that I've restored, including replacing the CRT. It will make a nice match for someone's classic machine. --- Joe <rigdonj@cfl.rr.com> wrote: > At 11:16 AM 12/13/02 -0500, Pat wrote: > >I managed to get a few fun things to play with this > week - courtesy of > >Purdue University Salvage/Surplus > > > >** Finds ** > > > >Lear-Sigler AMD-3A+ **actually working** (compared > to my ADM-5) $free > > > Speaking of LS terminals. I spotted a Televideo > 901 last week. It looked like a Lear Sigler ADM > (something). Does anyone know if it was built by > LS? > > > Joe > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Fri Dec 13 10:45:01 2002 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212122040170.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> <005d01c2a26f$f5110c80$1843cd18@D73KSM11> <32851.64.169.63.74.1039762123.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <008301c2a278$7721e340$1843cd18@D73KSM11> <20021213145253.GE3299592@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <00ab01c2a2c7$1f543880$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> is this an old Scottish trick ;) what is you get stuck to the doorlock ;( h ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Wright" <dtwright@uiuc.edu> To: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 9:52 AM Subject: Re: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. > Wayne M. Smith said: > > > > > You are a rare breed of a bygone age. The college market, for example, a > > prior mainstay of music sales, is largely gone. At most campus dorms you > > can get any current album burned by a fellow student for $1.00 plus media. > > And this is what they do. Why? Well, the money, bolstered by the fact that > > college campuses are infected by a "nothing is ever really wrong" moral > > relativism where only a fool would pay an extra $10 for the real thing. > > Really? Where do you get these statistics? Most things I have read > contradict what you are saying and reinforce the "most people sample then buy" > assumption. If you have a source for these numbers I would be quite > interested to read it. > > - Dan Wright > (dtwright@uiuc.edu) > (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) > > -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- > ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, > For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' > Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Dec 13 10:55:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212122040170.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20021213015444.030ca520@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <3DFA10D5.30001@jetnet.ab.ca> Mike Ford wrote: > Now the point I wholely agree on, the top 40 mainstream artists are > going to get ripped off, to some extent, but for everybody else its the > lifeblood of exposure. My belief is that Sony et al are not worried > about bootlegs of Brittany Spears as much as having NO CONTROL over who > the public picks as the next pop start. My gripe is that music downloads are real crappy audio. Does nobody listen to real music on real hi-fi systems ( often tube ) anymore? Anyhow the biggest downloads for the ppl I know are the fan subtitled japanese anime. Ben. From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Fri Dec 13 11:01:00 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: New finds this week / Cheap to a good home In-Reply-To: <3DFA0D22.7040102@internet1.net> Message-ID: <005501c2a2c9$c19b45a0$023ca8c0@blafleur> > What brand and model? My Pioneer plays cd's, but it has a cd drawer > within the laserdisc drawer. The older Pioneer LD players just have an inset ring inside the big drawer for loading CD's. So it's one drawer, with a ring for 12", 8" LD's, 5" CD's, and mini 3" CD's. From allain at panix.com Fri Dec 13 11:23:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C75F@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <004001c2a2cc$729cc520$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Reverse engineering itself is not a crime. Agree, but... The whole notion of what crimes are with a Software entity is too nebulous. That's why the the Son-of-a-Lawyer has made so much money testing the boundaries of Pseudo law, and winning. This is a new industry and things haven't totally jelled yet. John A. From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Dec 13 11:27:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <00ab01c2a289$4dda0bf0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212122304420.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> <00ab01c2a289$4dda0bf0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <32885.64.169.63.74.1039800581.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Wayne M. Smith wrote: > I understood his point, but I don't agree that the studios/record > companies are obligated to do anything or face having their content > stolen. It's of course true that they have no legal or moral obligation to change their business practices to avoid having their content copied without authorization (*) (**). However, as a purely practical matter, it may well be the case that the record companies DO need to change their business model. Record companies are becoming increasingly irrelevant because it is now possible for bands to market their product directly; the middleman function provided by the record company offers substantially less value now than in the past. If you combine this with the idea that they may be losing money to unauthorized copying (***), and that it is unlikely that law enforcement can prevent unauthorized copying by individuals (as opposed to large-scale unauthorized copying as a commercial venture), it's pretty clear that simply relying on the legal system to prop up their business model is not a viable option. Eric * I don't normally use the words "stolen" or "piracy" for this, because both denote crimes where someone is deprived of a physical object. Although unauthorized copying of copyrighted material is unlawful, it does NOT deprive the owner of the original, so IMNSHO it is not the same category of offense. ** From a legal point of view, it is unclear whether Joe making his friend Bob a copy of a CD as a non-commercial transaction is actually a violation of copyright law. The Audio Home Recording Act of 1992 (U.S. Public Law 105-563) states in section 1008: No action may be brought under this title alleging infringement of copyright based on the manufacture, importation, or distribution of a digital audio recording device, a digital audio recording medium, an analog recording device, or an analog recording medium, or based on the noncommercial use by a consumer of such a device or medium for making digital musical recordings or analog musical recordings. For more information, see http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/bad_laws/dat_tax.html *** There is a lot of evidence to suggest that unauthorized copying by end users is NOT having a significant negative affect on record industry revenue. The economic downturn is probably responsible for much more of the record industry financial woes, but of course the RIAA claims otherwise. From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Dec 13 11:33:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <3DFA0707.544368D@comcast.net> References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212122350340.10943-100000@siconic.com> <3DFA0707.544368D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <32891.64.169.63.74.1039800933.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Dave Woyciesjes wrote: > Granted, I'm one of those people who look for that album in the used > rack first, before resorting to a buying new copy. It is a form of > recycling; but I wonder what exactly do the record labels think of me > for that? They think you're a parasite, and that sales of used CDs should be prohibited. However, that's because they fail to recognize that part of the value proposition for buying a CD is the fact that you can sell it or give it away when you don't want it any more. Eliminating the secondary market would NOT increase the primary market, and might in fact decrease it. From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Fri Dec 13 11:35:01 2002 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: Wicat computer? References: <3.0.6.16.20021205173812.44c77524@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <007e01c2a2cc$6022b2b0$05247452@newhare> G'day Joe - The Wicat 150 was a MC68000-based system system in single user, 4 user and 8 user configurations. The "entry level" system was unmapped, but the multi-user systems were mapped, and it was the original "portable multi-user computer" - at least as when we used 'em. The 150 was a Multibus-I based system that was enclosed in a large display terminal cabinet a bit larger than the VT100 of its day. A picture of our 150 is at: http://www.simulogics.com/museum.htm Te Wicat documentation that we have retained is listed at: http://www.simulogics.com/archives/manuals/wicat.htm We would be interested in archiving any documentation not already on the list...! Bruce www.NovasAreForever.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" <rigdonj@cfl.rr.com> To: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 5:38 PM Subject: Wicat computer? > I saw the recent discussions about these on this list but didn't read them since I'd never seen a Wicat computer and didn't know what one was. Well, today that changed. Can someone give me the run down on a wicat S-150A? > > Joe > From allain at panix.com Fri Dec 13 11:37:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C75F@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> <004001c2a2cc$729cc520$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <004d01c2a2ce$42054700$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Reverse engineering itself is not a crime. Agree, but... The whole notion of what crimes are with a Software entity is too nebulous. That's why the the Son-of-a-Lawyer has made so much money testing the boundaries of Pseudo law, and winning. This is a new industry and things haven't totally jelled yet. John A. From als at thangorodrim.de Fri Dec 13 11:49:01 2002 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <005d01c2a26f$f5110c80$1843cd18@D73KSM11> References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212122040170.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> <005d01c2a26f$f5110c80$1843cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <20021213174134.GA1659@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Thu, Dec 12, 2002 at 10:22:05PM -0800, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > As seen on Slashdot; an decent read. I'll have to admit that I agree > > with much of what O'Reilly has to say here: > > <http://www.openp2p.com/pub/a/p2p/2002/12/11/piracy.html?page=1> > > > I became dubious as soon as he trotted out the "sample-then-buy" myth. While > this argument might not have been laughable 4-5 years ago before CD burners were > cheap and widespread, it's preposterous today. It isn't. I've bought quite a stack of CDs after copying the MP3-files from friends who encoded their collections. Without freely swapped MP3-encoded music, I would never have heard about most of those bands (because they aren't plugged by million dollar ads from some big record company). In my experience, swapping music is basically (almost) free advertising. Yes, there will always be a load of freeriders who'll just burn a CD instead of buying it - but most of them wouldn't have bought the CD anyway, so thats not much of a loss. > The rest is largely "blame the > victim" drivel in the form of > "you-haven't-given-us-what-we-want-in-the-form-we-want-it-so-that-justifies-our- > stealing-it-from-you-until-you-do" -- or as O'Reilly cutely puts it "Give the > Wookie what he wants." IMHO he is right about this. Either you sell the masses what they want, or they'll find another way to get it - but likeley without money ending up in your pocket this time. The big record companies are deadly afraid of the need to adapt their business model to modern times. They were crying "our companies will die" when the video tape came out. What happened? Now they make $BIGNUM on selling pre-recorded video tapes to hundreds of millions of customers. That market most likely shrunk in the last years - because customers where moving over to DVD. > If you buy that, then you probably subscribe to that > mainstay of the hacker apocrypha that Jon Johansen created DeCSS because he > wanted to view DVDs on a Linux machine. Right. Yes, I find it absolutely believable. I'm annoyed at CSS because it is intended to keep me from using the product I bought if I don't comply with whatever stupid ideas the media industry comes up with. I don't own a DVD player. I do, however, have a DVD drive in my workstation - which runs Linux (no MS Windows OS on my machines, since several years). Without DeCSS I would never have bought a single DVD because they would have been useless to me - now I have a small stack of DVD I bought sitting on the shelf behind me, because there is software that breaks the stupid CSS nonsense (What cracksmoking monkey invented this awfully bad excuse for an "encryption" algorithm anyway?) in realtime and allows me to watch my (legally purchased) DVDs. And while I'm at it - the DVD region coding is another annoyance - thankfully, being "region code free" is an almost required "standard" feature for DVD-Players (and DVD drives) around here, customer cash at work ;-) Regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Dec 13 11:58:01 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. Message-ID: <EFCC02DCB43BE04989267F883F7237870B4457@denmails1.jdedwards.com> And, though the US carries a pretty big stick, the rest of the world doesn't necessarily follow the US direction on the DCMA and the new Mickey Mouse copyright laws. Bob -----Original Message----- From: John Allain [mailto:allain@panix.com] Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 11:37 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Re: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. > Reverse engineering itself is not a crime. Agree, but... The whole notion of what crimes are with a Software entity is too nebulous. That's why the the Son-of-a-Lawyer has made so much money testing the boundaries of Pseudo law, and winning. This is a new industry and things haven't totally jelled yet. John A. From als at thangorodrim.de Fri Dec 13 12:13:01 2002 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: OT: Re: OT: Re: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212130022200.10943-100000@siconic.com> References: <3DFA0707.544368D@comcast.net> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212130022200.10943-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <20021213180350.GB1659@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 12:26:18AM -0800, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > Granted, I'm one of those people who look for that album in the > > used rack first, before resorting to a buying new copy. It is a form of > > Ditto. I don't believe in paying more than $13 for a CD. > > > recycling; but I wonder what exactly do the record labels think of me > > for that? > > They fought over this as well several years ago. I believe they lost, and > they get no revenues. The nerve these companies have. Imagine General Motors, Ford, Toyota or any other car maker wanting a cut of the money if you sell your old car to somebody else instead of just dropping it into the next landfill. > Apparently, they are still griping about it though: > http://www.mp3newswire.net/stories/2002/usedcd.html The article raises the key point: the companies already squeezed the customer for all they could for the initial purchase of the CD - wanting to cash in again when he sells it to somebody else is just robbery in (bad) disguise. > > I also believe that new audio CDs are still overpriced. Doesn't > > stop me from buying one, though, if I can't find a used copy. > > Me too. Though it would have to be pretty damn good music for me to buy > it at over $13. Agreed. If I'm buying CDs it's mostly used or directly at the concert of the band. Only if that doesn't work I'll order from Amazon or hit the shop. Regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison From als at thangorodrim.de Fri Dec 13 12:14:38 2002 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <32885.64.169.63.74.1039800581.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212122304420.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> <00ab01c2a289$4dda0bf0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> <32885.64.169.63.74.1039800581.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <20021213181428.GC1659@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 09:29:41AM -0800, Eric Smith wrote: > Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > I understood his point, but I don't agree that the studios/record > > companies are obligated to do anything or face having their content > > stolen. > > *** There is a lot of evidence to suggest that unauthorized copying by > end users is NOT having a significant negative affect on record industry > revenue. The economic downturn is probably responsible for much more > of the record industry financial woes, but of course the RIAA claims > otherwise. I find it amazing: the economy is going down, lots of companies are shrinking or going out of business - but the recording companies complain that their profits aren't growing as fast as they used to and blaim it on the customer who - according to them - is a lying, stinking, filthy stealing pirate who needs to be put in jail and have his money taken away (and handed over to the poor, starving record companies who'll have to delay the purchase of another dozen personal jet liners for their CEOs because those damned customers aren't purchasing new CDs fast enough). Yes, this is a bit over the top, but still I think the RIAA and MPAA need a serious whack with the reality cluestick. Regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Fri Dec 13 12:21:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: Pulling -12VDC from thin air (was Re: MicroVAX II) Message-ID: <200212131823.KAA00902@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Ethan Dicks" <erd_6502@yahoo.com> > > >--- Jochen Kunz <jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> wrote: >> I second that. I know a collector who knows nothing about hardware and >> how it works.... When I told him that I builded a simple voltage >> inverter (charge pump) to make the RS232 work on the Sun 4/600 MP he >> looked like it was black magic to convert +12V to -12V. (The Sun 4/600 >> MP boards needs -12V for the RS232, even -5V are not enough. As I >> mounted this board in a Sun 3/60 case that doesn't provide -12V, I could >> not use a serial console.) > >Interesting to learn about the 4/600 board and the 3/60 case. Long ago, >I wondered if the two could work together (I _have_ the 3/60 and I almost >had the 4/600 board). > >If you'd have known to ask, I could have provided you with a +5VDC to >-12VDC converter module. It's about 20mm x 30mm x 3mm. We had to put >them on the Qbus COMBOARD because the original design assumed you could >pull -12VDC off some Qbus pin somewhere, and I suspect that it is not >the case for all Qbus enclosures (don't know where it is available and >where it isn't). I have several new on the anti-static mat they shipped >in. > >-ethan > Hi There is another chip in the MAX232 series someplace that creates +/- 12 V from 5V for serial uses other that what a 232 chip is normally used for. It just needs some capacitors for the charge pumps. Dwight From jss at subatomix.com Fri Dec 13 13:07:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: Fwd: Hermes 51 In-Reply-To: <F188C8MS2erbvM53Wkg000203d6@hotmail.com> References: <F188C8MS2erbvM53Wkg000203d6@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <91596562261.20021213130129@subatomix.com> Please direct replies to Lynda, not me. ---------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: Lynda Pieper <lcpieper@hotmail.com> To: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org Date: Sunday, December 8, 2002, 4:19:41 PM Subject: Hermes 51 I came across your website looking for "Hermes 51", which is a 1984 dedicated word processor. Since your site is now under construction, I wanted to know if you know of anyone who would be interested in buying the Hermes 51. I have not used it since I got my 286 computer in 1987. Everything for the Hermes is intact, including diskettes. If you know of anyone or any place interested in this word processing, please let me know. The Hermes was an electronic typewriter with internal memory and an LED to show about 20 characters at a time as you typed, plus an external video unit (with about a 12" screen) which used the small diskettes for storage. I have ribbons, daisy-wheel fonts, diskettes, etc. It should still work... I used it for only three years on a part-time basis. Please e-mail me with a "yea" or a "nay". Thanks. L. Pieper lcpieper@hotmail.com ---------- End forwarded message ---------- -- Jeffrey Sharp From classiccmp at crash.com Fri Dec 13 13:10:00 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O\'Reilly article. Message-ID: <200212131911.gBDJAwg28520@io.crash.com> [ Trying to put some classiccmp spin on the discussion... ] > Imagine General Motors, Ford, Toyota or any other car maker > wanting a cut of the money if you sell your old car to some- > body else instead of just dropping it into the next landfill. This reminds me of my biggest complaint about several commercial Unix offerings in the early 90's - user licensing. "Excuse me, I can only have X users on my Vax/Alpha?" Alright, maybe some other non-Unix OSes as well ;^) The analogy was always to Ford/GM saying, "Yes, you bought our biggest van with the third row seat, but you may only use the the front two bucket seats until you pay us Y dollars per year." Definitely led me to move to systems that didn't have such silly encumbrances. --Steve. From glenslick at hotmail.com Fri Dec 13 13:34:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: The Ne[w|utered] HP / Agilent Message-ID: <F1265YI9IJsaJbqJGNz00000315@hotmail.com> Their current 16700 series LA mainframes (I have one) still run HPUX 10.20 on a PA-RISC CPU with all of the network capabilities of HPUX. I think some things are disabled by default, but you can boot single user mode and reconfigure things if you really want to. I agree that I wouldn't want Windows 9x running on an instrument like this, but Windows 2000 might not be too bad, as Tek runs on some of their current LA mainframes. >From: "Eric Smith" <eric@brouhaha.com> >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> >Subject: Re: The Ne[w|utered] HP (was: RE: The effects of employment) >Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 18:31:25 -0800 (PST) > >My biggest gripe with Agilent is that their recent instruments such >as the Infinium series oscilliscopes run Windows. I don't use the >things myself, but I've heard horror stories from friends using them. >It's a shame that they didn't use Linux, or xBSD. Some of their >earlier instruments such as logic analyzers actually acted as NFS >and X clients, but the networking capabilities of Windows are a huge >step backwards. _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Dec 13 13:42:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: New finds this week / Cheap to a good home In-Reply-To: <3DFA0D22.7040102@internet1.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212131446140.14237-100000@ibm-ps850.purdueriots.com> On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > Assuming all the Laserdisk players all work - they just have a few > > cosmetic scratches - I'm willing to part with two of them. First two > > replies get them for $10 + shipping. If they don't all work (as far as I > > can tell without owning a laserdisk - they should also play CDs) then I'll > > be offering less of them I guess... > > > > Pat > > Lafayette, IN, USA > > What brand and model? My Pioneer plays cd's, but it has a cd drawer > within the laserdisc drawer. It's a CLD-V2400. It claims to play LD's CD's and CDV's (CD with Video). Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Dec 13 13:47:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: The Ne[w|utered] HP / Agilent In-Reply-To: <F1265YI9IJsaJbqJGNz00000315@hotmail.com> References: <F1265YI9IJsaJbqJGNz00000315@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <4856.4.20.168.113.1039808989.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Their current 16700 series LA mainframes (I have one) still run HPUX > 10.20 on a PA-RISC CPU with all of the network capabilities of HPUX. That's because they were designed before Agilent was spun off. It will be very interesting to see whether then next generation of Agilent logic analyzers still uses HPUX. > I agree that I wouldn't want Windows 9x running on an instrument like > this, but Windows 2000 might not be too bad, as Tek runs on some of their > current LA mainframes. Tek started with Windows 98, that's what runs on ours. From my point of view, Windows brings nothing useful to the party as compared to a Unix variant; in fact, I think it's substantially less useful because the application can't be run as an X client. Perhaps it might be possible to run VNC, but that would still be limited to the resolution of the logic analyzer's built in display, whereas with the HP analyzers acting as a X client, I can take advantage of the full resolution of my desktop system's display, and multiple virtual screens/desktops, etc. From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Fri Dec 13 14:32:01 2002 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: The Ne[w|utered] HP / Agilent References: <F1265YI9IJsaJbqJGNz00000315@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <015d01c2a2e6$ecc97a40$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> We used to have a few of these - we called them "Barbie" scopes because everything had a cheap plastic feel, vinyl smell and gaudy neon colours. They would crash often and do a scandisk... The only useful thing was the ether connection to save files, capture to a net share, or print. The whole scope consisted of a modified motherboard and a few PCI capture cards .. blech! I'll take a 16500C series over this any day! h > >From: "Eric Smith" <eric@brouhaha.com> > >My biggest gripe with Agilent is that their recent instruments such > >as the Infinium series oscilliscopes run Windows. I don't use the > >things myself, but I've heard horror stories from friends using them. > >It's a shame that they didn't use Linux, or xBSD. Some of their > >earlier instruments such as logic analyzers actually acted as NFS > >and X clients, but the networking capabilities of Windows are a huge > >step backwards. From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Dec 13 14:35:01 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: working 11/70s available for $$$, one w/PEP-70 & hypercache Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021213143151.03d50cf8@ubanproductions.com> Hello, I just scored a PEP-70/Hypercache pair from a guy on eBay and in my conversations with him, I've learned that he has a couple of working 11/70s, one with conventional MOS memory and the other with a PEP-70/Hypercache pair. He is a dealer and I have no association with him other than my eBay purchase. He seems like a nice enough fellow and these things are not getting any easier to find. So, for those who are inclined to spend money on their hobby computers instead of on PCs, here is the info. DaveM@systechaz.com 602-437-0100 Happy Holidays! --tom From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Dec 13 14:44:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: ADM-3A (was: Televideo 901 was Re: New finds this week / In-Reply-To: <20021213164542.28726.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212131245120.25789-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Loboyko Steve wrote: > The ADM-3A+ is a very nice looking terminal with a > terrible looking (but definitely "period" font. I have > two that I've restored, including replacing the CRT. > It will make a nice match for someone's classic > machine. Or the classic mislabel: "I-MAC PROTOTYPE" From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 13 15:27:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212122357341.10943-100000@siconic.com> from "Sellam Ismail" at Dec 12, 2 11:58:25 pm Message-ID: <m18Mv3Z-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1041 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021213/10adfdbe/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 13 15:28:55 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <10212131006.ZM6193@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "pete@dunnington.u-net.com" at Dec 13, 2 10:06:08 am Message-ID: <m18Mx6D-000IzSC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1878 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021213/7f352474/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 13 15:30:27 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021213112041.0f6794d2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Dec 13, 2 11:20:41 am Message-ID: <m18MxE8-000IzUC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1880 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021213/e959e17a/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Dec 13 15:32:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: David Woyciesjes <dwoyciesjes@comcast.net> "Re: OT: Re: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article." (Dec 13, 11:12) References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212122350340.10943-100000@siconic.com> <3DFA0707.544368D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <10212132029.ZM6578@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 13, 11:12, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Sellam Ismail wrote: > I'm like Sellam here. I have bought quite a few CDs, based on hearing a > song or two from the album via Napster. > Granted, I'm one of those people who look for that album in the used > rack first, before resorting to a buying new copy. It is a form of > recycling; but I wonder what exactly do the record labels think of me > for that? > I also believe that new audio CDs are still overpriced. Doesn't stop me > from buying one, though, if I can't find a used copy. If *you* think they're overpriced... I just bought two today, for presents. UKP13.99 each, which is just over $22 according to the Universal Currency Converter. Yet when I look at my colleagues at work listening to CDs, I see they spend part of the time listening to MP3s, and about half (I guess) to CDs. Of the CDs, nearly all are original shop-bought, not CD-R copies. They have the technology, so that's not why they don't copy stuff. There's a difference in quality, and in reliability/robustness, and you don't get the sleeve notes and graphics with a copy. The students I see seem to do the same. I don't believe the hype or the wailing and moaning from the music companies. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Dec 13 15:33:32 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: Joe <rigdonj@cfl.rr.com> "Re: BBC Acorn" (Dec 13, 11:20) References: <Joe <rigdonj@cfl.rr.com> <ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: BBC Acorn" (Dec 11 23:50)> <m18MGca-000IzIC@p850ug1> <3.0.6.16.20021212074044.3b8fdf5e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021212194332.0f477346@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021213112041.0f6794d2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <10212132134.ZM6598@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 13, 11:20, Joe wrote: > At 10:06 AM 12/13/02 GMT, Pete wrote: > > > >How many (EP)ROMs are in it? Do they have any numbers on them? > > There are five sockets in a row (IC71 - IC75) but IC 75 is empty. IC 71 is an EPROM but the label in missing. IC 72 is a Hitachci PROM marked HN613128PD11 View2-1 Japan (c)ACORNSOFT, IC 73 is an EPROM and is marked DNFS 201666, IC 74 is an EPROM and is marked US BASIC 201667. Behind that row is IC 52, it's marked VI (I THINK, it's stylized and hard to read), then 403 V 2006 VC 2023 201647 (c)ACORN COMPUTER KOREA-AE. I think that's all of the custom ICs. Interesting. The IC numbering scheme is different. I know Acorn slightly modified the video circuit for the US, so I suppose they renumbered IC positions at the same time. The first one (missing a label) should be the MOS. It makes sense that it would be an EPROM, because Acorn regularly used EPROMs rather than mask ROMs for "low" volume runs, which I'd expect the US MOS to be. I discovered that pages 478-479 of the Advanced User Guide list the differences between US and UK MOS versions. Basically, the US screen resolutions are the same width but less high (corresponding to 1280 x 800 points instead of 1280 x 1024 -- points are not pixels though, the correspondence depends on the screen mode, which determines the resolution used). This is because the frame rate is 60Hz instead of 50Hz, and also means that the screen memory usage is correspondingly lower in some modes. The next four ROMs are "sideways ROMs" which share the same address space, being switched in and out by the MOS. They will be prioritised from left to right, right being highest priority. When the machine starts up, it checks each socket looking for language, filing system, and service ROMs. Simplifying a little, it gives each a chance to initialise, and then allows the highest priority filing system and highest priority language to start fully. VIEW is a word processor, which in Acorn terms is a "language" ROM. The version you have is the standard version 2. DNFS is a combinatin of Disc Filing System (for 8271 floppy controller), Network Filing System (for Econet[1]), and Tube utilites (for a Second Processor). Part number 201666 is the standard DNFS, same as the UK. The sign-on message should be "Acorn DFS" (unless you have the Econet network interface fitted and either have changed a link to make NFS take priority or have removed the 8271). [1] I read somewhere that US machines were fitted with Econet as standard. If yours has the interface, there will be a 68B54 ADLC chip in the North West quadrant of the board, a 180-degree 5-pin DIN socket on the back, and few or no empty positions for components around the ADLC position. And if you hold down the "N" key while starting it up, it should say "Econet Station 001 No Clock" instead of "Acorn DFS". The station number would be different if someone has changed the links in the block of 8 near the Econet socket. Incidentally, holding down various keys can force filing system selection regardless of ROM priority and link settings, providing the relevant hardware and firmware is present. "D" for DFS, "N" for NFS (Econet), <space> or <DELETE> for tape, "R" for RFS, "A" for ADFS ("F" for fast-start ADFS), etc. "US BASIC" is fairly self-explanatory. Like Tony, I'd be very surprised if it were supposed to say "BASIC OS" because BASIC is not an OS and Acorn were quite particular about terminology in many ways (they even used to get upset if people wrote "Disk" instead of "Disc"). As far as Acorn were concerned, BASIC (even BBC BASIC) is "just another language". The two other similar ICs are the serial processor (near the back) and video processor (near the ROMs). The stylised VI is the VTi logo. > >> Actually I didn't get a cursor. I wasn't sure if it was supposed to > >have one or not. > > > >Yes, you should. > > Hmm. Sounds like it's not finishing the boot sequence. I think it's getting something wrong, given all those "OS" appended to startup messages. I'd suggest *carefully* lifting all the socketed ICs and re-seating them. I'd also suggest you temporarily remove the VIEW ROM and see if there's any difference. Once you have a working PSU, of course. BTW, if you're repairing that PSU, it's a switchmode. Beware of high voltages on the capacitors (including their cases) and on the heatsink for the power transistor. However, the standard Beeb supply (an Astec unit) is safe to run with no load (unlike some SMPSUs), and it will shut down safely (making a characteristic tick-tick-tick noise) if the +5V output is shorted, and will immediately start up again if the short is removed. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Dec 13 16:15:00 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. Message-ID: <EFCC02DCB43BE04989267F883F7237870B445A@denmails1.jdedwards.com> When I had just a record player (sometime back BCE), I had just one turntable, and one copy of each record. If I wanted to listen to the music on a record while at work, I could make a cassette tape copy. I wouldn't go out and buy a second copy of the LP. (The only time I have done that was when I found a cutout copy of an out-of-print LP that I liked a lot, and wanted to have a backup copy.) Now we have 4 CD players at home and I have one in my computer at work. If I want to listen to one of my CDs at work, I will make a CD copy of the original CD that I own. I have also made CD copies to have one upstairs and one downstairs. I would not go out and buy a second copy of any of the CDs if I was unable to make copies -- I would just ferry originals between home and work. With multiple copies, is my wife listening to the same one at home as I am listing to at work? Probably not. Do I have copies of CDs where I do not own the original? Yes, one CD where I have the LP and one where I don't (and both are of 30-year old music). Would I buy as many CDs if I couldn't make copies of them? No. Sometimes I wonder which planet the RIAA is on. (My $0.02) Bob -----Original Message----- From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com [mailto:pete@dunnington.u-net.com] Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 2:29 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: Re: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. On Dec 13, 11:12, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Sellam Ismail wrote: > I'm like Sellam here. I have bought quite a few CDs, based on hearing a > song or two from the album via Napster. > Granted, I'm one of those people who look for that album in the used > rack first, before resorting to a buying new copy. It is a form of > recycling; but I wonder what exactly do the record labels think of me > for that? > I also believe that new audio CDs are still overpriced. Doesn't stop me > from buying one, though, if I can't find a used copy. If *you* think they're overpriced... I just bought two today, for presents. UKP13.99 each, which is just over $22 according to the Universal Currency Converter. Yet when I look at my colleagues at work listening to CDs, I see they spend part of the time listening to MP3s, and about half (I guess) to CDs. Of the CDs, nearly all are original shop-bought, not CD-R copies. They have the technology, so that's not why they don't copy stuff. There's a difference in quality, and in reliability/robustness, and you don't get the sleeve notes and graphics with a copy. The students I see seem to do the same. I don't believe the hype or the wailing and moaning from the music companies. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 13 16:24:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: New finds this week / Cheap to a good home In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212131446140.14237-100000@ibm-ps850.purdueriots.com> Message-ID: <20021213222631.14342.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Patrick Finnegan <pat@purdueriots.com> wrote: > > What brand and model? My Pioneer plays cd's, but it has a cd drawer > > within the laserdisc drawer. > > It's a CLD-V2400. It claims to play LD's CD's and CDV's (CD with Video). Ooh! If I didn't already have an LD-V8000 (for playing Dragon's Lair and my LD collection), I'd love to have one - I have a Moody Blues CD-Video - 4 CDDA audio tracks and one Pioneer-Laser-Disc-style video track that only plays in certain players... like the ones you have. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 13 16:28:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:33 2005 Subject: Pulling -12VDC from thin air (was Re: MicroVAX II) In-Reply-To: <200212131823.KAA00902@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20021213223030.11247.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwightk.elvey@amd.com> wrote: > >From: "Ethan Dicks" <erd_6502@yahoo.com> > > I... have...a +5VDC to >-12VDC converter module.... about 20mm x 30mm x > > 3mm. > > Hi > There is another chip in the MAX232 series someplace > that creates +/- 12 V from 5V for serial uses other that > what a 232 chip is normally used for. It just needs > some capacitors for the charge pumps. This one is potted and self-contained - 4 leads on the corners, presumably +5VDC in, GND and -12VDC out. Not sure about the other pin. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Dec 13 17:19:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:34 2005 Subject: New finds this week / Cheap to a good home In-Reply-To: <no.id> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 13, 2002 02:26:31 PM Message-ID: <200212132320.gBDNKtM22704@shell1.aracnet.com> > --- Patrick Finnegan <pat@purdueriots.com> wrote: > > > What brand and model? My Pioneer plays cd's, but it has a cd drawer > > > within the laserdisc drawer. > > > > It's a CLD-V2400. It claims to play LD's CD's and CDV's (CD with Video). > > Ooh! If I didn't already have an LD-V8000 (for playing Dragon's Lair > and my LD collection), I'd love to have one - I have a Moody Blues > CD-Video - 4 CDDA audio tracks and one Pioneer-Laser-Disc-style video > track that only plays in certain players... like the ones you have. > > -ethan Oh, come on Ethan, you should know the primary rule of having a Laserdisc collection, you can never have enough players. We've got three players at home that we use and two more (three if you count the broken one) in storage. Still, I'm trying to slowly convert the most important LD's in our collection to DVD-R as I'm worried about bit-rot and the players slowly dying. Sadly there is stuff on LD that will probably never make it to DVD (I'd love Anamorphic Widescreen copies of some of our LD's). Zane From allain at panix.com Fri Dec 13 18:13:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:34 2005 Subject: Pulling -12VDC from thin air (was Re: MicroVAX II) References: <20021213223030.11247.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <028801c2a305$bcae51e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> While we're on the subject, can I ask if anyone knows what a Mmic 29302BT 9508 PHIL 4D47US-2 might be? I found several, for ?5V? to ?3.3V? converters, and could use the pinouts, there are 5, from a TO style case. The writing is exactly as above. > There is another chip in the MAX232 series someplace > that creates 12 V from 5V for serial uses other that > what a 232 chip is normally used for. It just needs > some capacitors for the charge pumps. Equally interesting, if somebody finds it. John A. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 13 18:33:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:34 2005 Subject: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <m18MxE8-000IzUC@p850ug1> from "Tony Duell" at Dec 13, 2 09:20:05 pm Message-ID: <m18N0DA-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 723 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021213/41f342f6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 13 18:35:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:34 2005 Subject: Pulling -12VDC from thin air (was Re: MicroVAX II) In-Reply-To: <20021213223030.11247.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 13, 2 02:30:30 pm Message-ID: <m18N0EH-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021213/c28cacfe/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 13 18:39:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:34 2005 Subject: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <10212132134.ZM6598@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "pete@dunnington.u-net.com" at Dec 13, 2 09:34:21 pm Message-ID: <m18N0Ja-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2139 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021213/572b8bfa/attachment.ksh From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Dec 13 18:52:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:34 2005 Subject: Some scans of Netronics 1802 boards In-Reply-To: <m18N0DA-000IzIC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <00df01c2a30b$500ea520$020010ac@k4jcw> I know we have some 1802 people on the list, and I think most are subscribed to the 1802 mailing list. If not, I've scanned an unbuilt Netronics Programmer Board, and a completed Netronics Product Card. The images are at http://tinymicros.com/elf (and drill down into images. One day I shall write some HTML to put at the top level). --John From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 13 19:26:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:34 2005 Subject: New finds this week / Cheap to a good home In-Reply-To: <200212132320.gBDNKtM22704@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20021214012816.3370.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@aracnet.com> wrote: I wrote: > > Ooh! If I didn't already have an LD-V8000 (for playing Dragon's Lair > > and my LD collection), I'd love to have one > > Oh, come on Ethan, you should know the primary rule of having a Laserdisc > collection, you can never have enough players. We've got three players > at home that we use and two more (three if you count the broken one) in > storage. Indeed I do: 1 x Sony LPD-1500, 4 x Pioneer LD-V4400, 1 x Pioneer LD-V8000. All with RS-232 control ports. I've had the LDP-1500 for years. Until I got the LD-V8000, the Sony had to pull double duty for videos and video games. Now, I can have a dedicated Dragon's Lair/Space Ace player in my game cabinet. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Dec 13 19:51:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:34 2005 Subject: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: BBC Acorn" (Dec 13, 21:11) References: <m18Mx6D-000IzSC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <10212140030.ZM6756@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 13, 21:11, Tony Duell wrote: > This reminds me of something that suprises me. Namely that the Model A > missed out some fairly simple/cheap chips like the buffers for the 1MHz > bus and/or Tube, the RS423 buffers (the rest of the serial I/O system was > fitted on the A becuase it was needed for the cassette I/O), etc. I would > have thought that the cost of fitting sockets and having 2 different > boards in production would have exceeded the cost of these chips... The idea was to keep the cost as low as possible while making it simple to upgrade. At that time the sockets would have been much cheaper than the chips. I don't know how the decision was made, nor by whom (though Acorn was a fairly small comapany at that time), and it may have involved the BBC. > > I doubt if it's that simple. UK models don't use mylar ribbons, they use a > > single 17-way notched IDT cable with a 0.1" pitch, and with a single-row > > Unless thr speech upgrade is fitted. True, in which case there's an additional 10-way 0.1" pitch IDT cable on the left of the keyboard. > Very early Beebs had linear PSUs with 3 7805 regulators in them. One fed > each of the +5V outputs. You (Joe) do not have one of these, though. :-) Horrible things. Acorn had an exchange scheme, and they destroyed the black ones they got back. There were actually three black models, two matt black, one gloss, IIRC. One (I forget which) was unofficially known as the "adaptor and exploder" becasue it had a habit of doing the latter. > IIRC, the ground pins are linked on the mainboard, the +5V pins are not, > so you have to have all 3 sets connected for it to work. Later boards did have the +5V joined up, just not with very fat tracks in places. So on all but the earliest ones, it sometimes "mostly" works if one set isn't connected (or is dirty). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Dec 13 19:59:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:34 2005 Subject: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: BBC Acorn" (Dec 14, 0:37) References: <m18N0Ja-000IzIC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <10212140200.ZM6924@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 14, 0:37, Tony Duell wrote: > > upset if people wrote "Disk" instead of "Disc"). As far as Acorn were > > concerned, BASIC (even BBC BASIC) is "just another language". > > IIRC, BASIC is a somewhat odd language that doesn't implement one of the > 'standard' entry points. But it is a language ROM. Indeed, it has zeros in the service entry point which wouldn't be legal for an ordinary language ROM, except that it is treated as a special case by certain Acorn firmware, and that missing service entry is used in the first stage of recognising which ROM is BASIC. It's unique in that regard. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Dec 13 20:06:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:34 2005 Subject: New finds this week / Cheap to a good home In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212131058200.12274-100000@ibm-ps850.purdueriots.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212132110200.14818-100000@ibm-ps850.purdueriots.com> The LD players have been claimed. Thanks for the quick responses! Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I managed to get a few fun things to play with this week - courtesy of > Purdue University Salvage/Surplus > > ** Finds ** > > Lear-Sigler AMD-3A+ **actually working** (compared to my ADM-5) $free > 4 x Pioneer CD CDV LD Player CLD-2400 (LaserDisk player) $free > > OT: > 2 x SYMBIOS RAID arrays - 10 drives/controller, 2 controllers/array > with the 4GB narrow scsi drives in it, total of 144GB of RAID-5 > pulled from an NCR Teradata (worldmark 5100M) system > 2 x NCR Worldmark 5100M nodes with 4GB Ram, 32xPentium Pro 200MHz > processors each. Now, it's time to help with its Linux port - > doesn't quite boot yet. Features a pair of 32bit Microchannel > busses per node. Technically, I guess, it's still Purdue's, but > I get basically exclusive access to it (and free power/network). > > I'm thinking about going back to grab a pair of marked 'BAD' ADM-5's from > there that might be useful for parts to repair my ADM-5. > > ** Cheap to a good home ** > > Assuming all the Laserdisk players all work - they just have a few > cosmetic scratches - I'm willing to part with two of them. First two > replies get them for $10 + shipping. If they don't all work (as far as I > can tell without owning a laserdisk - they should also play CDs) then I'll > be offering less of them I guess... > > Pat > Lafayette, IN, USA > -- > Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu > > From fernande at internet1.net Fri Dec 13 20:56:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:34 2005 Subject: New finds this week / Cheap to a good home References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212132110200.14818-100000@ibm-ps850.purdueriots.com> Message-ID: <3DFA9DC9.6030905@internet1.net> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > The LD players have been claimed. Thanks for the quick responses! > > Pat Well crap, I didn't realize that your were givinh anything away yet. I would have taken one. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From spc at conman.org Fri Dec 13 22:02:00 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:34 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. (OT) In-Reply-To: <005d01c2a26f$f5110c80$1843cd18@D73KSM11> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Dec 12, 2002 10:22:05 PM Message-ID: <200212140403.XAA11781@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Wayne M. Smith once stated: > > > As seen on Slashdot; an decent read. I'll have to admit that I agree > > with much of what O'Reilly has to say here: > > <http://www.openp2p.com/pub/a/p2p/2002/12/11/piracy.html?page=1> > > > I became dubious as soon as he trotted out the "sample-then-buy" myth. While > this argument might not have been laughable 4-5 years ago before CD burners were > cheap and widespread, it's preposterous today. The rest is largely "blame the > victim" drivel in the form of > "you-haven't-given-us-what-we-want-in-the-form-we-want-it-so-that-justifies-our- > stealing-it-from-you-until-you-do" -- or as O'Reilly cutely puts it "Give the > Wookie what he wants." If you buy that, then you probably subscribe to that > mainstay of the hacker apocrypha that Jon Johansen created DeCSS because he > wanted to view DVDs on a Linux machine. Right. If Johansen wanted to create copies of DVDs he did *not* have to break CSS---all he needed to do (or anyone needs to do) is make a bit-for-bit copy of the DVD in question and it will play in any DVD player as a normal DVD. Now, to watch a DVD on a Linux system, then yes, he needed to break CSS. In the past year, the RIAA came out with a new copy protection scheme and went to far as to ask people to attempt to break it. A university professor spent less than a week and broke the scheme. He was about to publish the results with the RIAA attempted to DMCA his ass by saying he broke the DMCA, *even though the RIAA asked people to break the system!* The MPAA and RIAA are failing to see that we are slowly turning from consumers to producers/consumers and this has actually been going on for some time now. In 1989, a little known musician spent a week mixing his own music on a Macintosh (doing two takes per song) and in 1990 released the album to critical and commerical success (Nine Inch Nail's "Pretty Hate Machine"). That was 12 years ago. Imagine what can happen now. -spc (Or even with the success of the "Blair Witch Project" ... ) From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Dec 13 22:40:01 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:34 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. (OT) In-Reply-To: <200212140403.XAA11781@conman.org> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021213231623.2882B-100000@osfn.org> > The MPAA and RIAA are failing to see that we are slowly turning from > consumers to producers/consumers and this has actually been going on for > some time now. I think you are greatly overestimating the ambition and attention span of the public. > In 1989, a little known musician spent a week mixing his own > music on a Macintosh (doing two takes per song) and in 1990 released the > album to critical and commerical success (Nine Inch Nail's "Pretty Hate > Machine"). That was 12 years ago. Imagine what can happen now. The reason this guy became popular is because he can actually craft a good song*. It is not something that everyone can do, even if they actually spend the hours to crank out a tune. Many kids try, but almost all quit after they find out that the tracks they just laid all sound like a bunch of Casio presets. Look what happened when the electric guitar started coming out in force, back in the 1960s. With a fairly minimal amount of training, you can make a song. What we ended up with is a bunch of crappy garage bands making crappy music, and pretty much everyone went nowhere selling out in the huge garage sale guitar glut of years later. *No, not a Trent fan - no CDs, no MP3s...hell, I didn't even give him any airplay...and yes, I *reeeally* don't like the RIAA. Oh, and he did have a bit of help from Adrian Sherwood - that didn't hurt the record, certainly. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Dec 13 22:46:00 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:34 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212122040170.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20021213015444.030ca520@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <003501c2a32c$04e6fa90$1843cd18@D73KSM11> > Now the point I wholely agree on, the top 40 mainstream artists are going > to get ripped off, to some extent, but for everybody else its the lifeblood > of exposure. My belief is that Sony et al are not worried about bootlegs of > Brittany Spears as much as having NO CONTROL over who the public picks as > the next pop start. > It's not just the top 40 mainstream artists, it's the tens of thousands that they employ. To the end, there have been substantial layoffs in the music business over the past two years. Warner/Elektra/Atlantic just laid off another bunch. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Dec 13 22:51:00 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:34 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212122040170.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> <005d01c2a26f$f5110c80$1843cd18@D73KSM11> <32851.64.169.63.74.1039762123.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <008301c2a278$7721e340$1843cd18@D73KSM11> <20021213145253.GE3299592@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <004301c2a32c$bd0b2d30$1843cd18@D73KSM11> > Wayne M. Smith said: > > > > > You are a rare breed of a bygone age. The college market, for example, a > > prior mainstay of music sales, is largely gone. At most campus dorms you > > can get any current album burned by a fellow student for $1.00 plus media. > > And this is what they do. Why? Well, the money, bolstered by the fact that > > college campuses are infected by a "nothing is ever really wrong" moral > > relativism where only a fool would pay an extra $10 for the real thing. > > Really? Where do you get these statistics? Most things I have read > contradict what you are saying and reinforce the "most people sample then buy" > assumption. If you have a source for these numbers I would be quite > interested to read it. > > - Dan Wright > (dtwright@uiuc.edu) > (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) > Unit CD sales were down 10% last year, the first double digit drop ever. Some argue that there might be reasons contributing to this other than piracy, but it's pretty hard to ignore the nose on your face. The rest of the evidence is largely anecdotal as it is essentially impossible to survey a pirate market. A recent article in the LA Times -- I think on 12/2 -- reported that many college networks have maxed out on their bandwidth due to massive student downloading of music files and videos during the evening hours. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Dec 13 22:59:01 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:34 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212122350340.10943-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <004b01c2a32d$cdbe6ce0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> > On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > I became dubious as soon as he trotted out the "sample-then-buy" myth. While > > this argument might not have been laughable 4-5 years ago before CD burners were > > cheap and widespread, it's preposterous today. The rest is largely "blame the > > victim" drivel in the form of > > "you-haven't-given-us-what-we-want-in-the-form-we-want-it-so-that-justifies-our- > > stealing-it-from-you-until-you-do" -- or as O'Reilly cutely puts it "Give the > > Wookie what he wants." > > Hi Wayne. > > I don't find it preposterous at all. I burned one CD of Napster-derived > Jimi Hendrix music that I liked (and passed a couple copies around). I > bought probably 10-15 CDs based on music I had discovered through > Napster. > > I reward artists that make music I like by buying their albums. I suspect > I am not alone. > You are in the vast majority, but it only takes a small minority engaged in theft to turn the economics of the business upside down. The LA Times ran an article last week where they interviewed college students about music buying habits. Student after student stated that they hadn't bought a CD in a few years, and offered all the usual justifications -- greedy recording industry, rich artist, etc. No one mentions all the employees -- who rely on those greedy artists et al. for jobs -- who have been laid off as sales have turned down. > Ever since Napster went away I have returned to my normal buying habits of > 1-2 CDs per 6 months. The drivel being played on the radio does not > compel me to go to the store. > > > If you buy that, then you probably subscribe to that > > mainstay of the hacker apocrypha that Jon Johansen created DeCSS because he > > wanted to view DVDs on a Linux machine. Right. > > Yes, I buy that. There is nothing wrong with DeCSS, just like there is > nothing wrong with a radio scanner, a lockpick set, a gun, etc. They are > all just tools. > I agree, in general. But you could say that a nuclear device is a tool as well. It's all in that "how you use it" thing. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Dec 13 22:59:27 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:34 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212122357341.10943-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <005101c2a32d$e87dce90$1843cd18@D73KSM11> > On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > > > on his actions. Now, the MPAA folks say that reverse engineering their > > lousy CSS encryption is a crime. I think that's absurd, and I'm really > > surprised that /anyone/ on /this/ list would agree with the idea that > > reverse engineering something is, in itself, a criminal act. > > I have to second that. > I'd have to too, had they said it. From ipscone at msdsite.com Fri Dec 13 23:10:01 2002 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:34 2005 Subject: HP Series 80 - Programmable ROM Module In-Reply-To: <004301c2a32c$bd0b2d30$1843cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <3DFA4D23.22832.41C28F@localhost> Just in case anyone is interested in Series 80 development, I have listed a Programmable ROM Module on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1945568752 You can find ROM images on the Series 80 Web Site here: http://www.series80.org/ And here is an interesting Byte Magazine article on the 80 series: http://www.series80.org/ByteArticle From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Dec 13 23:10:55 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:34 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212122358342.10943-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <006101c2a32f$64a858e0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> > On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > > Speaking for my personal CD purchasing habits, I'd have to say > > > O'Reilly's observations match my practices. For one, I don't like > > > "Top 40" or mainstream music. Most all of it is crap. And nearly none > > > of the music I enjoy gets played on the radio stations in my area; so > > > my ability to find out about music I like is somewhat hampered. If > > > someone recommends a song or a band to me, they'll often point me in > > > the direction of some of their MP3s. If I like their work, I buy > > > their CDs. > > > > > You are to be lauded, but you are in a shrinking minority. > > Wayne, I can't buy your argument for the same reason I can't believe > anything the RIAA or MPAA or any of those silly acronym-based > organizations say. They don't back them up with hard data, because if > they did, we would probably find that sales are only increasing. When the > recording industry is willing to allow an independent auditor to check its > books and report the findings, then I'll believe it. Until then, I don't > take their word for anything. > Every recording contract with a participation clause has an audit provision in it that allows the artist to come in with their own auditor/accountant and have full access to the books. Same is true in the movie biz. So I don't really know what you're referring to. > Also, I think it's pretty petty for the recording industry especially to > be griping about losing sales, especially when it robs most recording > artists blind anyway. But that's another (and even more off-topic) > thread. > I see you've been reading the popular press and the gospel according to Courtney Love. > > I understood his point, but I don't agree that the studios/record > > companies are obligated to do anything or face having their content > > stolen. There's a difference between being annoyed and therefore not > > buying something, and being annoyed and using that as a justification > > for stealing. The argument some make that the studios/record companies > > need to pander to those who would otherwise steal from them really > > doesn't fly. > > Well, we are basically dealing with human behavior here, and no matter how > much pissing and moaning and bitching and griping by the recording > industry and no matter how many silly laws that do not at all cater to the > general benefit of society are passed, people will still do what people > do. The trick is to figure out how to make money from it, rather than > being completely obnoxious about it as the recording industry has been so > far. > On this, I completely agree. It's just like speeding. > O'Reilly was right on, and history will prove him (and all the others > striking the same chord) right. > > > > lousy CSS encryption is a crime. I think that's absurd, and I'm really > > > surprised that /anyone/ on /this/ list would agree with the idea that > > > reverse engineering something is, in itself, a criminal act. > > > > > No, he didn't, but he did distribute DeCSS, and then others did. The DCMA > > doesn't preclude reverse engineering CSS for purely encryption research or > > security testing, and I'm certain the MPAA has not said otherwise. > > But it does preclude distributing that research, and I can't believe you > could support that provision. > It depends on what you mean by "distributing that research." If you mean unrestricted distribution of a hack -- particularly when you know that 99.9% of those who will use it have no interest in "research" (other than to "research" whether they can crack a DVD) -- then I do support it. > > The movie biz is right about where the music biz was 5 years ago. DVD > > burners are around $300-400, the media is approaching $1 per disk and > > connectivity speeds are increasing. We will see. > > The economy is also right about where it was 5 years ago. People just > don't have the money they did in 1999 (I certainly don't). The > correlation is more than a coincidence. > I thought you were going to say that they're spending all their remaining money on DVDs ;-) From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Dec 13 23:27:01 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:34 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <006101c2a32f$64a858e0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212122358342.10943-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021213212511.03046160@mail.zipcon.net> At 09:12 PM 12/13/02 -0800, you wrote: >Every recording contract with a participation clause has an audit provision in >it that allows the artist to come in with their own auditor/accountant and >have >full access to the books. Same is true in the movie biz. So I don't really >know what you're referring to. -BZZZTTTT- Wrong answer... the recording industry contracts state that Yes, you can ahve your contract audited, but only with a list of 'approved' auditors, as a matter of fact if you show your contract to ANYONE you are in violation of the contract. > > Also, I think it's pretty petty for the recording industry especially to > > be griping about losing sales, especially when it robs most recording > > artists blind anyway. But that's another (and even more off-topic) > > thread. > > >I see you've been reading the popular press and the gospel according to >Courtney >Love. I haven't, I have friends that are / were in signed bands, and they were ripped off royally by the record companies they were signed through. There are plenty of stories out there by recording artists that are getting the royal purple shaft by their recording companies (lets start with the band having to pay the recording company back for all expenses incurred in advertising a record or tour...., the same expenses that the record company wrote off in their takes but the band has to repay.) >It depends on what you mean by "distributing that research." If you mean >unrestricted distribution of a hack -- particularly when you know that >99.9% of >those who will use it have no interest in "research" (other than to "research" >whether they can crack a DVD) -- then I do support it. Um, I seem to remember text in the DMCA that makes it a criminal offense to do ANYTHING that could be construed as an attempt at bypassing copy protection, that would include reverse-engineering CSS.... From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Dec 13 23:27:42 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:34 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212122304420.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> <00ab01c2a289$4dda0bf0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> <32885.64.169.63.74.1039800581.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <007301c2a331$c5edb490$1843cd18@D73KSM11> > Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > I understood his point, but I don't agree that the studios/record > > companies are obligated to do anything or face having their content > > stolen. > > It's of course true that they have no legal or moral obligation to change > their business practices to avoid having their content copied without > authorization (*) (**). However, as a purely practical matter, it may > well be the case that the record companies DO need to change their > business model. > > Record companies are becoming increasingly irrelevant because it is now > possible for bands to market their product directly; the middleman > function provided by the record company offers substantially less value > now than in the past. If you combine this with the idea that they may be > losing money to unauthorized copying (***), and that it is unlikely > that law enforcement can prevent unauthorized copying by individuals > (as opposed to large-scale unauthorized copying as a commercial venture), > it's pretty clear that simply relying on the legal system to prop up > their business model is not a viable option. > > Eric > You're right. The record companies have been very slow to adopt new distribution platforms, and for this they should be roundly criticized (but not stolen from). DVD Audio is a good example of a largely unexploited medium, with thus far an uncracked encryption scheme. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Dec 13 23:30:01 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:34 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212122040170.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> <005d01c2a26f$f5110c80$1843cd18@D73KSM11> <20021213174134.GA1659@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> Message-ID: <007f01c2a332$3ddd49c0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> > On Thu, Dec 12, 2002 at 10:22:05PM -0800, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > As seen on Slashdot; an decent read. I'll have to admit that I agree > > > with much of what O'Reilly has to say here: > > > <http://www.openp2p.com/pub/a/p2p/2002/12/11/piracy.html?page=1> > > > > > I became dubious as soon as he trotted out the "sample-then-buy" myth. While > > this argument might not have been laughable 4-5 years ago before CD burners were > > cheap and widespread, it's preposterous today. > > It isn't. I've bought quite a stack of CDs after copying the MP3-files > from friends who encoded their collections. Without freely swapped > MP3-encoded music, I would never have heard about most of those bands > (because they aren't plugged by million dollar ads from some big record > company). In my experience, swapping music is basically (almost) free > advertising. Yes, there will always be a load of freeriders who'll just > burn a CD instead of buying it - but most of them wouldn't have bought > the CD anyway, so thats not much of a loss. > I think we agree then as I believe O'Reilly's attempted point was that virtually all of the "samplers" are buying. That's the myth. From fernande at internet1.net Fri Dec 13 23:45:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:34 2005 Subject: DEC Message-ID: <3DFAC55E.6080806@internet1.net> Hi All, I've just been watching the TLC show about Hackers and Phone Freakers. I don't work in the computer industry, so I don't hear many pronunciations. Do you pronounce DEC as "Dee Eee Cee" or as "deck"? I've always called it "deck". Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Dec 13 23:47:00 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:34 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212122358342.10943-100000@siconic.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20021213212511.03046160@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <00b901c2a334$858d6be0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> > At 09:12 PM 12/13/02 -0800, you wrote: > >Every recording contract with a participation clause has an audit provision in > >it that allows the artist to come in with their own auditor/accountant and > >have > >full access to the books. Same is true in the movie biz. So I don't really > >know what you're referring to. > > -BZZZTTTT- Wrong answer... the recording industry contracts state that > Yes, you can ahve your contract audited, but only with a list of 'approved' > auditors, as a matter of fact if you show your contract to ANYONE you are > in violation of the contract. I don't think that's right. There are restrictions that prevent hiring an auditor on a contingency fee basis, and using an auditor who is performing an audit of the same company on behalf of another artist at the same time. I have never heard of the "approved list" you mention. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sat Dec 14 00:01:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <005101c2a32d$e87dce90$1843cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212132127340.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > > > on his actions. Now, the MPAA folks say that reverse engineering their > > > lousy CSS encryption is a crime. I think that's absurd, and I'm really > > > surprised that /anyone/ on /this/ list would agree with the idea that > > > reverse engineering something is, in itself, a criminal act. > > > > I have to second that. > > I'd have to too, had they said it. Ah yes, to be more specific, the MPAA are using ?KOKRIM, a Norwegian law enforcement agency, to prosecute Jon Johansen. They have charged him with "cracking CSS". The prosecution, of course, couldn't say he had "reverse engineered CSS" because that doesn't sound very criminal. And we all know that "cracking a code" and "reverse engineering a code" are two COMPLETELY different things; one of them is against the law! -brian. From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Dec 14 00:04:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. (OT) In-Reply-To: <200212140403.XAA11781@conman.org> References: <005d01c2a26f$f5110c80$1843cd18@D73KSM11> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Dec 12, 2002 10:22:05 PM <200212140403.XAA11781@conman.org> Message-ID: <32893.64.169.63.74.1039846007.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" <spc@conman.org> wrote: > If Johansen wanted to create copies of DVDs he did *not* have to break > CSS---all he needed to do (or anyone needs to do) is make a bit-for-bit > copy of the DVD in question and it will play in any DVD player as a > normal DVD. That would have been even more difficult than breaking CSS, because the DVD-ROM drives will NOT give you all of the encrypted data unless you successfully authenticate. They will simply return errors (and no data) for some (but perhaps not all) of the encrypted blocks. I don't recall whether reading the encrypted data requires just the negotiation for the disc key, or whether the title key is involved as well. Eric From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Dec 14 00:06:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <004301c2a32c$bd0b2d30$1843cd18@D73KSM11> References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212122040170.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> <005d01c2a26f$f5110c80$1843cd18@D73KSM11> <32851.64.169.63.74.1039762123.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <008301c2a278$7721e340$1843cd18@D73KSM11> <20021213145253.GE3299592@uiuc.edu> <004301c2a32c$bd0b2d30$1843cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <32896.64.169.63.74.1039846134.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Wayne M. Smith wrote: > Unit CD sales were down 10% last year, the first double digit drop ever. > Some argue that there might be reasons contributing to this other than > piracy, Given that MOST industries making non-essential consumer goods have lost way more than 10% in sales, I think that is pretty good evidence that "piracy" is NOT the problem. From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Dec 14 00:07:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: DEC In-Reply-To: <3DFAC55E.6080806@internet1.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212140008010.27720-100000@george.home.org> On Sat, 14 Dec 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Hi All, > > I've just been watching the TLC show about Hackers and Phone Freakers. > I don't work in the computer industry, so I don't hear many pronunciations. > > Do you pronounce DEC as "Dee Eee Cee" or as "deck"? I've always called > it "deck". I've never heard anything but "deck". Of course, I live in Texas, where proper English is a counter-survival trait. Doc From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sat Dec 14 00:10:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: DEC In-Reply-To: <3DFAC55E.6080806@internet1.net> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212132209341.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> On Sat, 14 Dec 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I've just been watching the TLC show about Hackers and Phone Freakers. > I don't work in the computer industry, so I don't hear many pronunciations. > > Do you pronounce DEC as "Dee Eee Cee" or as "deck"? I've always called > it "deck". I've always pronounced DEC as "deck". There's also the classic PDP-10 catchphrase: "If it doesn't have 36 bits, you're not playing with a full DEC!" -brian. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Dec 14 00:18:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: DEC In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212140008010.27720-100000@george.home.org> from Doc Shipley at "Dec 14, 2 00:09:16 am" Message-ID: <200212140630.WAA26596@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I've never heard anything but "deck". Of course, I live in Texas, > where proper English is a counter-survival trait. So they pronounce it "daaaaayck"? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Philosophy will clip an angel's wings. -- John Keats ----------------------- From jplist at kiwigeek.com Sat Dec 14 00:23:00 2002 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: DEC In-Reply-To: <3DFAC55E.6080806@internet1.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.20.0212140024100.369-100000@rosetta.binhost.com> On Sat, 14 Dec 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I've just been watching the TLC show about Hackers and Phone Freakers. > I don't work in the computer industry, so I don't hear many pronunciations. > Do you pronounce DEC as "Dee Eee Cee" or as "deck"? I've always called > it "deck". I grew up with a PDP11/34a in my house (My Dad bought one from the New Zealand Department of Health when I was 5 - shows how "young" I am (23)) and through my old man and everyone I've ever talked to about it, they've always been a 'Deck'. JP From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Dec 14 00:34:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: DEC In-Reply-To: <200212140630.WAA26596@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212140034550.27720-100000@george.home.org> On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > I've never heard anything but "deck". Of course, I live in Texas, > > where proper English is a counter-survival trait. > > So they pronounce it "daaaaayck"? More like "deyh-eck", but, yeah. Doc From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Dec 14 00:37:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: DEC In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212140034550.27720-100000@george.home.org> from Doc Shipley at "Dec 14, 2 00:36:29 am" Message-ID: <200212140649.WAA28114@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > I've never heard anything but "deck". Of course, I live in Texas, > > > where proper English is a counter-survival trait. > > So they pronounce it "daaaaayck"? > More like "deyh-eck", but, yeah. I knew it. :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Twenty-four hours in a day, twenty-four cans in a Pepsi cube. Coincidence? - From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Dec 14 01:01:00 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212122040170.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> <005d01c2a26f$f5110c80$1843cd18@D73KSM11> <32851.64.169.63.74.1039762123.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <008301c2a278$7721e340$1843cd18@D73KSM11> <20021213145253.GE3299592@uiuc.edu> <004301c2a32c$bd0b2d30$1843cd18@D73KSM11> <32896.64.169.63.74.1039846134.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <00cf01c2a33e$d8e5bdb0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> > Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > Unit CD sales were down 10% last year, the first double digit drop ever. > > Some argue that there might be reasons contributing to this other than > > piracy, > > Given that MOST industries making non-essential consumer goods have lost > way more than 10% in sales, I think that is pretty good evidence that > "piracy" is NOT the problem. > But sales of the other major entertainment media are up -- movie ticket sales have grown and home video has taken off on the back of the DVD format, and these are clearly non-essentials as well. Entertainment products are often counter-cyclical. Perhaps it's the quality of the product. From dave at naffnet.org.uk Sat Dec 14 02:09:00 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: DEC References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212140008010.27720-100000@george.home.org> Message-ID: <3DFAE7A6.BD1C10B4@naffnet.org.uk> Doc Shipley wrote: > On Sat, 14 Dec 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > I've just been watching the TLC show about Hackers and Phone Freakers. > > I don't work in the computer industry, so I don't hear many pronunciations. > > > > Do you pronounce DEC as "Dee Eee Cee" or as "deck"? I've always called > > it "deck". > > I've never heard anything but "deck". Of course, I live in Texas, > where proper English is a counter-survival trait. > > Doc Even in the Land of Proper English we 'deck,' for the most part. One of my old bosses, however, insisted on the 'Dee Eee Cee' pronunciation, but he used to say 'Ess Cee Ess Eye' too, so he doesn't count... Cheers, Dave. From spc at conman.org Sat Dec 14 03:21:00 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <00b901c2a334$858d6be0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Dec 13, 2002 09:49:09 PM Message-ID: <200212140922.EAA12536@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Wayne M. Smith once stated: > > > -BZZZTTTT- Wrong answer... the recording industry contracts state that > > Yes, you can ahve your contract audited, but only with a list of 'approved' > > auditors, as a matter of fact if you show your contract to ANYONE you are > > in violation of the contract. > > I don't think that's right. There are restrictions that prevent hiring an > auditor on a contingency fee basis, and using an auditor who is performing an > audit of the same company on behalf of another artist at the same time. I have > never heard of the "approved list" you mention. According to Steve Albini [1] a band who sells 250,000 albums (not that bad a showing) will make $710,000 for the record company, and only $4,000 *per band member*. $4,000. Given that an audit can cost anywhere from $10,000-$100,000 [2], even if the band in question *wanted* an audit, they aren't going to very well afford one, are they? And there *are* restrictions on what they can audit [3], but I've yet to find any restrictions on who can do the auditing. There are also some horribly one-sided contracts being signed [4] (and you have to read that to actually believe it---trust me, it's as if Satan himself wrote it). Now, are the artists stupid for signing such contracts? Perhaps, but when it's your only shot at being a recording star, and if you decline, any number of other starving artists are willing to sign, well ... where's that dotted line? The recording industry pretty much controls who sells and who doesn't. And dead artists? They're the best [5] for they don't bitch, and they don't attempt to audit the books [6] (really now, sixteen albums for a dead man ... the money used could have been used to promote how many live artists? Who knows ... ). But do you have *any* evidence that downloading MP3s hurts the recording industry? With figures *not* supplied by the recording industry? All the non-recording industry evidence I've seen has been to the counter---that it has, if anything, *helped* spurr sales [7], but not of the industry backed acts like Britney or N'Sync. And giving content away for free has helped other industries [8] generate more sales, oddly enough. The machinations that the RIAA is forcing on us may have killed a major company in another field [9] and is certainly keeping the smaller players from doing innovative stuff [10] or even just conducting their normal day-to-day business [11]. There is nothing in our laws (yet) that say that these companies are required to make money, but given their recent track record, they sure as hell are trying to make sure they're legally mandated to make money at all costs. And just for the heck of it, a few more links I found: http://www.woodpecker.com/writing/essays/royalty-politics.html http://www.recordingartistscoalition.com/rip.html http://www.wardrum.org/protection/congress/10_02_3.html http://www.recordingartistscoalition.com/contracts.html Please do take the time to read all the articles mentioned here; it's quite illuminating. -spc (Thank you) [1] http://www.negativland.com/albini.html [2] http://www.recordingartistscoalition.com/hollyreporter_092502.html [3] http://www.futureofmusic.org/news/CAaccountinghearing.cfm [4] http://blogcritics.org/archives/2002/09/05/204941.php [5] http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/fridayreview/story/0%2C12102%2C823068%2C00.html [6] http://www.recordingartistscoalition.com/hollyreporter_092502.html [7] http://www.janisian.com/article-internet_debacle [8] http://www.counterpunch.org/flint0419.html [9] http://www.davetrowbridge.com/MT/archives/000323.html#000323 [10] http://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/webcasting.html [11] http://www.boycott-riaa.com/article/5763 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Dec 14 04:21:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. (OT) In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021213231623.2882B-100000@osfn.org> References: <200212140403.XAA11781@conman.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021214021900.009f8c60@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >The reason this guy became popular is because he can actually craft a good >song*. It is not something that everyone can do, even if they actually >spend the hours to crank out a tune. Many kids try, but almost all quit >after they find out that the tracks they just laid all sound like a bunch of >Casio presets. I ran a small recording stufio for about a decade, and while a lot of poor quality musicans are out there, plenty have suffiecient talent to make good music. Universally where I saw bands go toes up was in trying to fit themselves into something acceptable to record labels. Finding an audience is what its all about, other than the obvious true goal of all musicans (making friends within the opposite sex). From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Dec 14 04:28:01 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <004301c2a32c$bd0b2d30$1843cd18@D73KSM11> References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212122040170.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> <005d01c2a26f$f5110c80$1843cd18@D73KSM11> <32851.64.169.63.74.1039762123.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <008301c2a278$7721e340$1843cd18@D73KSM11> <20021213145253.GE3299592@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021214022714.00a101b0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >Unit CD sales were down 10% last year, the first double digit drop ever. Some >argue that there might be reasons contributing to this other than piracy, but >it's pretty hard to ignore the nose on your face. The rest of the evidence is >largely anecdotal as it is essentially impossible to survey a pirate >market. A >recent article in the LA Times -- I think on 12/2 -- reported that many >college >networks have maxed out on their bandwidth due to massive student >downloading of >music files and videos during the evening hours. Could it just possibly be that consumers are seeing CDs as expensive, poor values, and don't like the fact that say the last three albums they bought all suck except for the single getting airplay? Take a listen to radio, are you hearing anything that really makes you want to buy it? 9/11 wasn't exactly a small event either. From dittman at dittman.net Sat Dec 14 06:33:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: DEC In-Reply-To: <3DFAC55E.6080806@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Dec 14, 2002 12:45:02 AM Message-ID: <200212141234.gBECYlCt020116@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I've just been watching the TLC show about Hackers and Phone Freakers. > I don't work in the computer industry, so I don't hear many pronunciations. > > Do you pronounce DEC as "Dee Eee Cee" or as "deck"? I've always called > it "deck". I've always pronounced it "deck", even after they insisted on calling themselves "Digital". -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From jim at jkearney.com Sat Dec 14 06:57:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: DEC References: <200212141234.gBECYlCt020116@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <082101c2a370$ab921f20$1001090a@xpace.net> > I've always pronounced it "deck", even after they insisted > on calling themselves "Digital". I was surprised when I moved here (10 miles from the Old Mill, and surrounded by HP-ex-Compaq-ex-DEC installations) that everyone called it Digital. From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Dec 14 07:37:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: Some scans of Netronics 1802 boards References: <00df01c2a30b$500ea520$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <3DFB3560.6070106@tiac.net> 1802 mailing list?? Did you get your package? J.C.Wren wrote: > I know we have some 1802 people on the list, and I think most are >subscribed to the 1802 mailing list. If not, I've scanned an unbuilt >Netronics Programmer Board, and a completed Netronics Product Card. The >images are at http://tinymicros.com/elf (and drill down into images. One >day I shall write some HTML to put at the top level). > > --John > > > From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat Dec 14 08:11:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: 1802 Mailing List (was RE: Some scans of Netronics 1802 boards) In-Reply-To: <3DFB3560.6070106@tiac.net> Message-ID: <00ea01c2a37a$d3906b30$020010ac@k4jcw> Ah, I would have thought every 1802 junkie would have found http://www.cosmacelf.com by now. Some good documents, history, emulators, etc over there. Anyways, there's a group mailing list at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosmacelf/ You have to join Yahoo to join the list, but I have to say that I have not seen any increase in spam as a result of joining several Yahoo groups. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bob Shannon Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 08:43 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Some scans of Netronics 1802 boards 1802 mailing list?? Did you get your package? J.C.Wren wrote: > I know we have some 1802 people on the list, and I think most are >subscribed to the 1802 mailing list. If not, I've scanned an unbuilt >Netronics Programmer Board, and a completed Netronics Product Card. The >images are at http://tinymicros.com/elf (and drill down into images. One >day I shall write some HTML to put at the top level). > > --John > > > From allain at panix.com Sat Dec 14 09:30:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: DEC References: <200212141234.gBECYlCt020116@narnia.int.dittman.net> <082101c2a370$ab921f20$1001090a@xpace.net> Message-ID: <002501c2a385$df95a7a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> "Deck" at employers both west coast and east. When more respect was called for: "Digital" would be used much more than "D. E. C.". - - - FYI the original company logo was 'dec', but was forced to be digital after a trademark crossup with Dairy Equipment Company or somesuch, but not until after the logo made it onto some products. John A. From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 14 09:32:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Re: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <004b01c2a32d$cdbe6ce0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212132330520.14526-100000@siconic.com> On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > I reward artists that make music I like by buying their albums. I suspect > > I am not alone. > > > You are in the vast majority, but it only takes a small minority engaged in > theft to turn the economics of the business upside down. The LA Times ran an > article last week where they interviewed college students about music buying > habits. Student after student stated that they hadn't bought a CD in a few > years, and offered all the usual justifications -- greedy recording industry, > rich artist, etc. No one mentions all the employees -- who rely on those greedy > artists et al. for jobs -- who have been laid off as sales have turned down. As others have pointed out, what are the alternatives? Offer a viable, reasonably affordable alternative and the customers will come. Cling pathetically to an increasingly outmoded business model and you will be relegated to the dustbin of history. > > Yes, I buy that. There is nothing wrong with DeCSS, just like there is > > nothing wrong with a radio scanner, a lockpick set, a gun, etc. They are > > all just tools. > > > I agree, in general. But you could say that a nuclear device is a tool as well. > It's all in that "how you use it" thing. Exactly. So then I take it you agree there was nothing inherently wrong with creating DeCSS, but in how it is used? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 14 09:43:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Re: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <006101c2a32f$64a858e0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212132334590.14526-100000@siconic.com> On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > Wayne, I can't buy your argument for the same reason I can't believe > > anything the RIAA or MPAA or any of those silly acronym-based > > organizations say. They don't back them up with hard data, because if > > they did, we would probably find that sales are only increasing. When the > > recording industry is willing to allow an independent auditor to check its > > books and report the findings, then I'll believe it. Until then, I don't > > take their word for anything. > > > Every recording contract with a participation clause has an audit provision in > it that allows the artist to come in with their own auditor/accountant and have > full access to the books. Same is true in the movie biz. So I don't really > know what you're referring to. What I'm referring to is the recording industry claiming their sales have dropped. First of all, I want to see hard data to prove this. Second, I want this dat to be from an independent auditor. Lastly, I want an independent analyst to confirm whether this is because of rampant CD copying on college campuses or if it is as a result of the economy. > > Also, I think it's pretty petty for the recording industry especially > > to be griping about losing sales, especially when it robs most > > recording artists blind anyway. But that's another (and even more > > off-topic) thread. > > > I see you've been reading the popular press and the gospel according to > Courtney Love. And many other artists who have had the courage to speak out publicly. > > > No, he didn't, but he did distribute DeCSS, and then others did. The DCMA > > > doesn't preclude reverse engineering CSS for purely encryption research or > > > security testing, and I'm certain the MPAA has not said otherwise. > > > > But it does preclude distributing that research, and I can't believe you > > could support that provision. > > > It depends on what you mean by "distributing that research." If you mean > unrestricted distribution of a hack -- particularly when you know that 99.9% of > those who will use it have no interest in "research" (other than to "research" > whether they can crack a DVD) -- then I do support it. Witholding knowledge never keeps anything a secret, especially where technical issues are concerned. In a sensible world, the MPAA should have been glad that someone broke their encryption so easily. However, they would have put the algorithm to scrutiny BEFORE committing it to standard and shipping millions of copies of vulnerable product. Then they could have fixed it. Instead, the MPAA has to sit there defending why they have a turd on their head, and they know it, and everyone else knows it, but the MPAA is trying to pretend that it's everyone elses fault that they have to wear a turd on their head. And in the end, they'll inevitably learn that you can't rely on copy protection to boost revenues after all, as all the software firms of the 1980s learned from their failed attempts to copy protect software with ever increasing elaborate schemes. In one regard the RIAA/MPAA (and I use these acronyms to describe the recording and movie industries respectively) did learn one lesson, and that was to go straight to lobbying congress to pass very bad laws (the DMCA) to make it illegal to crack copy protection schemes. However, this will still not change consumer behavior, and it will not change the fact that for every technology, someone WILL figure out how to get around it, laws be damned (especially when the laws are immoral). > > > The movie biz is right about where the music biz was 5 years ago. > > > DVD burners are around $300-400, the media is approaching $1 per > > > disk and connectivity speeds are increasing. We will see. > > > > The economy is also right about where it was 5 years ago. People just > > don't have the money they did in 1999 (I certainly don't). The > > correlation is more than a coincidence. > > > I thought you were going to say that they're spending all their > remaining money on DVDs ;-) Nope, if anything they are spending their money on high speed internet access so they can download music and movies faster ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mbg at TheWorld.com Sat Dec 14 11:07:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: DEC References: <200212141234.gBECYlCt020116@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <200212141709.MAA79745043@shell.TheWorld.com> >> I've always pronounced it "deck", even after they insisted >> on calling themselves "Digital". > >I was surprised when I moved here (10 miles from the Old Mill, and >surrounded by HP-ex-Compaq-ex-DEC installations) that everyone called it >Digital. I think it depends on how long the person is familiar with the company and whether they jumped on board the 'corporate identity' bandwagon... There is someone who, on their web page, writes, "Compaq may have bought Digital, but DEC was never for sale." Megan From als at thangorodrim.de Sat Dec 14 11:28:00 2002 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <00cf01c2a33e$d8e5bdb0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212122040170.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> <005d01c2a26f$f5110c80$1843cd18@D73KSM11> <32851.64.169.63.74.1039762123.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <008301c2a278$7721e340$1843cd18@D73KSM11> <20021213145253.GE3299592@uiuc.edu> <004301c2a32c$bd0b2d30$1843cd18@D73KSM11> <32896.64.169.63.74.1039846134.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <00cf01c2a33e$d8e5bdb0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <20021214172952.GA22678@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 11:03:04PM -0800, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > Unit CD sales were down 10% last year, the first double digit drop ever. > > > Some argue that there might be reasons contributing to this other than > > > piracy, > > > > Given that MOST industries making non-essential consumer goods have lost > > way more than 10% in sales, I think that is pretty good evidence that > > "piracy" is NOT the problem. > > > But sales of the other major entertainment media are up -- movie ticket sales > have grown and home video has taken off on the back of the DVD format, and these > are clearly non-essentials as well. Entertainment products are often > counter-cyclical. Perhaps it's the quality of the product. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ It most likely is. In my opinion, at least 95% of the music played on the radio and advertised by the big media companies is total and utter crap. "Artists" which can't sing and wouldn't recognize a good song if it came up and bit them on the ass, "new super stars" whose only qualities (if any) are their looks and which are best listened to with your ears plugged firmly with wax - as in "nice ass/boobs, whats that noise he/she is making?". Albums filled either with the 42. recycling of a song which was good when performed by the original artist 20 years ago but which now causes your ears to bleed or with mindless drivel written by an underpaid and talentless "songwriter", performed by an equally bad "artist". And they keep making more of it. Finally, they wonder why people aren't all that hot on buying this crap - which still sells amazingly well. I still have a (growing) collection of CDs, from artist that are either unknown in the mainstream media (heard their music usually through friends) or, although being known in the mainstream media still make good music but aren't hyped like mad (like Pink Floyd, Joe Cocker, Lenny Kravitz, ...). Sorry for the rant. Regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison From cb at mythtech.net Sat Dec 14 11:32:01 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Re: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. Message-ID: <S.0000096542@mythtech.net> >What I'm referring to is the recording industry claiming their sales have >dropped. First of all, I want to see hard data to prove this. Second, I >want this dat to be from an independent auditor. Lastly, I want an >independent analyst to confirm whether this is because of rampant CD >copying on college campuses or if it is as a result of the economy. I can't link to the report, because I don't recall where I saw it (actually, I think I saw it in a local newspaper)... but there was one I read recently that did site hard numbers to show that sales of CDs from record stores have dropped over the last year (based on sales $$, they didn't quote counts, so it could be from lowered prices, but since I haven't noticed CD prices going lower, I doubt that). The numbers were of course given by the RIAA, with no source quoted (so the assumption is it is from their own internal book keeping). However, the article also nicely pointed out, that the figures the RIAA were quoting were specifically for sales from record stores (ie: Tower, Sam Goody, places like that). When asked about sales from ONLINE stores (like Amazon.com), the RIAA said they didn't have those figures available. Nor did they have available the sales from recording industry web sites that offer MP3 purchases or similar. Since they were claiming sales of CDs were down only something like 8 or 9 million... I think it is pretty darn reasonable to say that those missing dollars from store fronts could easily be accounted for from online sales (and far more $$ I am sure). This is the stuff you have to be VERY VERY careful to read between the lines when looking at anyone's "facts and figures". You can distort this kind of data into telling you anything you want it to say (I work in Market Research... we are experts at distorting reality with numbers!) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net> From jss at subatomix.com Sat Dec 14 11:47:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: DEC In-Reply-To: <3DFAC55E.6080806@internet1.net> References: <3DFAC55E.6080806@internet1.net> Message-ID: <23678604661.20021214114852@subatomix.com> On Friday, December 13, 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Do you pronounce DEC as "Dee Eee Cee" or as "deck"? I've always called it > "deck". I say "deck". When I'm talking about DEC with people who don't know much about it (e.g. PC-only programmer friends), I usually first say "Digital Equipment Corp., aka D-E-C, aka DEC" so that they don't think I'm saying "dick". I've been a little paranoid about that ever since this one time when I was trying to sell an old computer, and I pointed out to the potential customer the "floppy dick drive" by accident. Most sources of computer information for me when I was growing up were textual. And until I went to college, there was no one with which I could have computer-related conversations. So I developed my own pronunciations, which sometimes did not match others'. For instance, most people said 'pascal' as "pass-COWL", but I said it as "PASS-cul". I also got in the habit of wordifying C functions; I would say 'strncmp' as "STERN-cump" and 'vasprintf' as "vuh-SPRIN-tiff". Thankfully, Java has made pronunciation quite easy for today's young nerds. Instead of easily mispronouncable abbrevs like 'xgetri()', they have names like 'getTheRemoteInformationAndParseIntoDiscreteUnitsForFurtherStudy()'. (Hey, I love Java, but sometimes those identifiers are just too long!) -- Jeffrey Sharp From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Dec 14 11:48:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Re: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212132334590.14526-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <3DFB6EE3.3000502@jetnet.ab.ca> Sellam Ismail wrote: > Nope, if anything they are spending their money on high speed internet > access so they can download music and movies faster ;) BTW LP's still sell well to the high end audio people. This is where you can still have smaller production runs. From bqt at update.uu.se Sat Dec 14 12:04:00 2002 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #319 - 51 msgs In-Reply-To: <20021212160823.20963.19212.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0212141838340.14831-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE> On Thu, 12 Dec 2002 ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > Huh? No. Actually, the data track itself is used as the servo signal. The > > head centers in on the track by centering on where the amplitude is > > strongest. > > Do you have any evidence for that? Yup. I quote: "1.3.3.2 Sector Format - As shown in Figure 1-3, each sector contains: * Servo information for head positioning * Head (address) information * Data - 128 words of 16 bits each, or 256 bytes of 8 bits each, or 170 words of 12 bits each Only the data portion can be written by the user. The servo and header information is protected by the drive logic and controller to ensure disk integrity and cannot be written in the field. Each sector starts with a sector pulse that is produced by a sector transducer mounted on the drive unit. It senses the sector notches that are machined into the hub of the disk cartridge. During the time that sector notch passes by the sector transducer, the heads detect two servo pulse bursts (S1 and S2) that are prerecorded on the platter. These servo bursts are used by the drive logic for head positioning." Seems like there shouldn't be any argument about this. The RL drives have the servo information embedded in the normal track. > > seek to a track, you check the current track, calculate the track delta, > > and request that of the drive. When the drive report ready you once again > > check the track to see which one you actually are on. Hopefully it is the > > right, but if not, do another seek. > > Incidentally, every drive I've ever worked on records the current track > number in the header. Even drives (like the RK's) where you can command > the drive to move to a given track. It is possible for the drive to get > confused and think the heads are on a different track to the one that > they actually are on. It's better to do a restore (seek to track 0 -- > something that is detected by a separate sensor) and re-seek to the > desired track than to overwrite the wrong sector. Eh. This is on most controller not something you check or take care about in software, but hardware. When you specify to the controller (for instance en RK11) that you want track 10, it both figures out how many tracks the heads need to move, and in which direction. It then checks that you really are at the right track, otherwise you get an error back. The RL11 have no such sophistication. You request a head move, and the drive hopefully does it, and then you can carry on with the next command. There is no checking at all in hardware, except for moving outside the data area, which just stops the heads at the end. > > Correctly position the heads when you don't have a servo track, and the > > heads are actuated by voice coils, means you cannot position the heads at > > all. > > You _can_, but you need a specially-modified drive. You can't use the > off-disk signals for position feedback. Instead you have to couple up > some other kind of transducer to the positioner and use that. An optical > interfereometertype thingy is the normal thing to use I believe. Sounds like a probable setup, yes. > Incidentally, RL's don't use a voice coil. It's a little DC motor and > pulley mechanism. Hmmm. I'm pretty sure it's voice coil. You want me to dig out that manual too? :-) I could also open up one of the many drives I have around me. The only pulley I've ever seen is for the spindle. And one have even trashed on me. > > Which no RL01/RL02 controller can do. There is no function to write sector > > headers. So, in addition to finding another drive to be able to position > > the heads, you need another controller, to be able to write the data. > > Getting round this is the easy part once you've got the drive to keep the > heads in the right place. The RL controller is conceptually simple (and > as you're only _writing_, you'd not need to bother with the PLL (used to > produce a read clock) on the homebrew header-writter. Well, now that I've pointed out that the servo information is also expected to show up, and that the drive checks that, and the rest of the information is constantly checked by the controller, it should be appearant that it's not that easy. While the RL controller might be conceptually easy, it's a rather complex thing as stuff normally done by the drive on other subsystems are actually done by the controller here. Basically, if you don't have the servo information correct on the platter, the drive will signal errors to the controller, and the controller which just miserably fail unless header infomration keep coming in when the drive is running. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From jss at subatomix.com Sat Dec 14 12:15:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <003501c2a32c$04e6fa90$1843cd18@D73KSM11> References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212122040170.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20021213015444.030ca520@pop-server.socal.rr.com> <003501c2a32c$04e6fa90$1843cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <8680319808.20021214121727@subatomix.com> > My belief is that Sony et al are not worried about bootlegs of Brittany > Spears as much as having NO CONTROL over who the public picks as the next > pop start. You think the *public* has control over that? Yeah, yeah, people vote with their wallets, but before they do that the candidate CDs have to be made available for puchase. The record companies control that, and they also control the amount of promotion that a particular candidate gets. Promotional agencies like MTV play right into the herd mentality of pop music buyers, convincing a few that the herd is buying album X. Those few buy album X, and then the rest of the herd follows suit. Essentially people are *told* what to buy. Do you think that P2P is going to damage this control system? I'm not too distressed by that control, though. It's still a free enough country that I can buy something else if I want to. What truly distresses me about the (pop) music industry is this: - Everything's a love song. Yawn. - Everything's so simple and easy to understand. Yawn. - Performers are sex symbols first, and musicians second if at all. - Nobody writes their own songs. - Nobody cares about albums. So when I'm not listening to Beethoven, Mahler, et al, I listen to Rush, Dream Theater, et al. -- Jeffrey Sharp From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Dec 14 12:24:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: DEC [deck ;-] BA-350 (& HSZ10) docs? Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C788@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> All, Does anyone have docs and/or info on these? I have a few of these puppies, and want to know how I can put 'em to use :) Thx, Fred From jss at subatomix.com Sat Dec 14 12:51:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: RL drives (was: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #319 - 51 msgs) In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0212141838340.14831-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE> References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0212141838340.14831-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE> Message-ID: <110682453686.20021214125301@subatomix.com> On Saturday, December 14, 2002, Johnny Billquist wrote: >> During the time that sector notch passes by the sector transducer, the >> heads detect two servo pulse bursts (S1 and S2) that are prerecorded on >> the platter. These servo bursts are used by the drive logic for head >> positioning." > > Seems like there shouldn't be any argument about this. The RL drives have > the servo information embedded in the normal track. That shows that the servo bursts are logically associated with a sector, but it does not say that they are recorded at the same radius as the sector data itself. Since the servo bursts are not field-recordable and are not a need-to-know topic (other than the fact that they exist) for the manual you quoted, it is conceivable that DEC simplified (or obfuscated) the fact that S1 and S2 occur at different radii. And having the radially offset servo signals makes more sense to me, anyway. IANAEE, but it seems that with the burts in the track, the drive electronics wouldn't know whether to move the heads in or out; it would only know that it was off-center. With radially (and angularly!) offset bursts as in Tony's diagram, the drive electronics know which burst (inside or outside) the head is closest to, and it would thus be able to discern which direction to move the heads. -- Jeffrey Sharp From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Dec 14 12:56:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: Anyone want a UPS? Message-ID: <10212141845.ZM9344@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> This is a bit off-topic, because it's only a few years old. I've decided that the "big" UPS which has been sitting in my workshop, unused, for almost a year, really is surplus to requirements, so it's free to anyone *who can collect it* and feels like replacing the batteries. It's a Powerware Prestige 6000, with two battery boxes, software, manual, and various cables. Input is rated 200/208/220/230/240V AC at 19A (power factor 0.9) single phase, output is 200/208/220/230/240V AC at 19A (max 3000W). The battery boxes are each rated 120V DC 50A and 5AH capacity. Size is about 40cm deep x 25cm wide x 28 cm high for the control box and the battery boxes are half the height, so 40 x 25 x 14 each. They all stack nicely together (in any sensible order). I have used it, but the batteries (10 x 2V gel cells in each box) do need replaced -- most will not hold any significant charge/voltage. It needs to be gone by Christmas, too, or it's going in the skip. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From cb at mythtech.net Sat Dec 14 13:30:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. Message-ID: <S.0000096603@mythtech.net> >You think the *public* has control over that? Yeah, yeah, people vote with >their wallets, but before they do that the candidate CDs have to be made >available for puchase. The record companies control that, and they also >control the amount of promotion that a particular candidate gets. >Promotional agencies like MTV play right into the herd mentality of pop >music buyers, convincing a few that the herd is buying album X. Those few >buy album X, and then the rest of the herd follows suit. Essentially people >are *told* what to buy. As much as it was a farce comedy, the movie Josie and the Pussycats shows almost exactly what the RIAA/MPAA would love nothing more than to have (and discount the subliminals, they are just about there already). >Do you think that P2P is going to damage this control system? Potentially. Right now, the public has no choice... if a studio doesn't want to promote an artist (can we still call them that?), the public has no access to their music. P2P removes the studio from the flow control. It is now possible for a small garage band to record their own music... AND get wide spread distribution via P2P sharing. Essentially, the need for the recording studio at all is starting to disappear. THAT is what scares the hell out of them, and THAT is the heart of all their complaints and cries for new laws. They are doing nothing more than trying to secure the need for their own existance (with the wonderful side effect of being able to have total control over what we see and hear at all times) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net> From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Dec 14 13:39:01 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212132330520.14526-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <001701c2a3a8$b7984c80$1843cd18@D73KSM11> > On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > > I reward artists that make music I like by buying their albums. I suspect > > > I am not alone. > > > > > You are in the vast majority, but it only takes a small minority engaged in > > theft to turn the economics of the business upside down. The LA Times ran an > > article last week where they interviewed college students about music buying > > habits. Student after student stated that they hadn't bought a CD in a few > > years, and offered all the usual justifications -- greedy recording industry, > > rich artist, etc. No one mentions all the employees -- who rely on those greedy > > artists et al. for jobs -- who have been laid off as sales have turned down. > > As others have pointed out, what are the alternatives? Offer a viable, > reasonably affordable alternative and the customers will come. Cling > pathetically to an increasingly outmoded business model and you will be > relegated to the dustbin of history. > I agree completely. But if the recording biz wants to destroy themselves that's up to them. It doesn't justify theft. > > > Yes, I buy that. There is nothing wrong with DeCSS, just like there is > > > nothing wrong with a radio scanner, a lockpick set, a gun, etc. They are > > > all just tools. > > > > > I agree, in general. But you could say that a nuclear device is a tool as well. > > It's all in that "how you use it" thing. > > Exactly. So then I take it you agree there was nothing inherently wrong > with creating DeCSS, but in how it is used? Agree completely. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Dec 14 13:43:00 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. References: <200212140922.EAA12536@conman.org> Message-ID: <002601c2a3a9$5eaa3a10$1843cd18@D73KSM11> > It was thus said that the Great Wayne M. Smith once stated: > > > > > -BZZZTTTT- Wrong answer... the recording industry contracts state that > > > Yes, you can ahve your contract audited, but only with a list of 'approved' > > > auditors, as a matter of fact if you show your contract to ANYONE you are > > > in violation of the contract. > > > > I don't think that's right. There are restrictions that prevent hiring an > > auditor on a contingency fee basis, and using an auditor who is performing an > > audit of the same company on behalf of another artist at the same time. I have > > never heard of the "approved list" you mention. > > According to Steve Albini [1] a band who sells 250,000 albums (not that > bad a showing) will make $710,000 for the record company, and only $4,000 > *per band member*. $4,000. Given that an audit can cost anywhere from > $10,000-$100,000 [2], even if the band in question *wanted* an audit, they > aren't going to very well afford one, are they? And there *are* > restrictions on what they can audit [3], but I've yet to find any > restrictions on who can do the auditing. I read Albini's article. The $710,000 number he puts out is "gross proft" which is not what the record company makes. The net is much lower. From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Dec 14 14:09:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: RL drives (was Re: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #319 - 51 msgs) In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0212141838340.14831-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE> References: <20021212160823.20963.19212.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0212141838340.14831-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE> Message-ID: <33071.64.169.63.74.1039896682.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Johnny Bilquist wrote: > Huh? No. Actually, the data track itself is used as the servo > signal. The head centers in on the track by centering on where the > amplitude is strongest. Tony Duell wrote: >> Do you have any evidence for that? Johnny Billquist wrote: > Yup. I quote: > "1.3.3.2 Sector Format - As shown in Figure 1-3, each sector contains: > > * Servo information for head positioning > * Head (address) information > * Data - 128 words of 16 bits each, or > 256 bytes of 8 bits each, or > 170 words of 12 bits each > > Only the data portion can be written by the user. The servo and header > information is protected by the drive logic and controller to ensure > disk integrity and cannot be written in the field. > > Each sector starts with a sector pulse that is produced by a sector > transducer mounted on the drive unit. It senses the sector notches that > are machined into the hub of the disk cartridge. > > During the time that sector notch passes by the sector transducer, the > heads detect two servo pulse bursts (S1 and S2) that are prerecorded on > the platter. These servo bursts are used by the drive logic for head > positioning." Note that it says that S1 and S2 are prerecorded on the platter, but it does NOT say that they are on-track. Assuming that the RL drives work the same as other embedded servo drives, the issue here is that the servo bursts S1 and S2 aren't really "on- track". Rather, they're each recorded off-track slightly, in opposite directions, or halfway between tracks. During the portion of the sector time in which the servo bursts are active, nothing is recorded on-track, so that the servo bursts can be read. The S1 and S2 bursts are typically at different frequencies. When the head is on-track, it reads the servo burst at a reduced amplitude due to the burst being off-track. The amplitude is proportional to the distance. Assuming that the S1 and S2 bursts were recorded at equal amplitude, and have positions that are off track in opposite directions by an equal distance, the track following can be accomplished by positioning the heads such that the amplitude of S1 and S2 are the same. If the S1 amplitude is higher than S2, they move the head in one direction, and if S2 is higher, the other direction. Note that if the servo bursts are in fact halfway between tracks, then for alternate tracks the relative directions of S1 and S2 from the track will be opposite. So for proper positioning, the drive needs to know whether it is on an odd or even track. It is not clear to me how having an embedded servo burst that is actually on-track would do anything very useful. The drive wouldn't be able to tell where the peak was without seeking in both directions. A servo writer normally needs to be able to position the head to within very tight tolerances to a fraction of a normal track position. As has been previously mentioned, this is usually accomplished using an optical interferometer, which is not present on standard drives (due to cost). However, I don't actually *know* anything about the RL internals, so it's certainly possible that it works differently. From spc at conman.org Sat Dec 14 16:15:01 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <002601c2a3a9$5eaa3a10$1843cd18@D73KSM11> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Dec 14, 2002 11:45:35 AM Message-ID: <200212142217.RAA14312@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Wayne M. Smith once stated: > > > It was thus said that the Great Wayne M. Smith once stated: > > > > > > > -BZZZTTTT- Wrong answer... the recording industry contracts state that > > > > Yes, you can ahve your contract audited, but only with a list of > 'approved' > > > > auditors, as a matter of fact if you show your contract to ANYONE you are > > > > in violation of the contract. > > > > > > I don't think that's right. There are restrictions that prevent hiring an > > > auditor on a contingency fee basis, and using an auditor who is performing > an > > > audit of the same company on behalf of another artist at the same time. I > have > > > never heard of the "approved list" you mention. > > > > According to Steve Albini [1] a band who sells 250,000 albums (not that > > bad a showing) will make $710,000 for the record company, and only $4,000 > > *per band member*. $4,000. Given that an audit can cost anywhere from > > $10,000-$100,000 [2], even if the band in question *wanted* an audit, they > > aren't going to very well afford one, are they? And there *are* > > restrictions on what they can audit [3], but I've yet to find any > > restrictions on who can do the auditing. > > I read Albini's article. The $710,000 number he puts out is "gross proft" which > is not what the record company makes. The net is much lower. So you mean that the artist makes even *less* than $4,000? And you are still defending the RIAA? While not the music industry, it is well known that you *never* agree to a percentage of the net in Hollywood (movie industry) but of the *gross* since *no* movie ever *nets* if the accountants are any good. Even a movie pulling in thrice what it cost is still considered having lost money (I suspect it has to pull in ten times the amount before a net profit is called). -spc (How pulling in three times the expense can still be considered loosing money I will never know ... ) From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Dec 14 16:21:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <8680319808.20021214121727@subatomix.com> References: <003501c2a32c$04e6fa90$1843cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <3DFB5BCE.24398.1974ADF8@localhost> One of the problems about the response of most people to music is that if you hear a piece of music often enough and have little critical musical facilities, it becomes familiar and comforting. At one time the now-common interval of a 3rd was considered discordant in western- world music by most people only used to unison, 4ths, or 5ths. So if you hear the current industry "playlist" often enough, you decide you like song x . You are "programmed" by Sony and the "music" industry. If you combine that with the "show-biz" stage and video presentations, Bingo ! , you have a hit. One of the good things that happened in the late 50s and 60s was that for a time the "Biz" got out of control of an industry that had fallen behind the current musical tastes. Whoops, correction made by the mid-sixties, and rigid enforcement and standardization of play lists brought "pop music" (and R&R for that matter) firmly under their control once more, and the independant recording companies were either bought out or marginalized. The result of course was the present ill-health of most music and the poor quality of musicianship. One of beacons that is encouraging is the indie labels and self- produced CDs, as well as the disdain for present product that is growing not only among an older generation but also among many younger musicians and fans. That I would suspect is a spectre haunting industry execs more than Napster and pirated CDs. It also relates to their efforts to control the i'net a potentialy very dangerous distribution rival. Lawrence On 14 Dec 2002, , Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > My belief is that Sony et al are not worried about bootlegs of > > Brittany Spears as much as having NO CONTROL over who the public picks > > as the next pop start. > > You think the *public* has control over that? Yeah, yeah, people vote > with their wallets, but before they do that the candidate CDs have to be > made available for puchase. The record companies control that, and they > also control the amount of promotion that a particular candidate gets. > Promotional agencies like MTV play right into the herd mentality of pop > music buyers, convincing a few that the herd is buying album X. Those > few buy album X, and then the rest of the herd follows suit. Essentially > people are *told* what to buy. > > Do you think that P2P is going to damage this control system? > > I'm not too distressed by that control, though. It's still a free enough > country that I can buy something else if I want to. What truly > distresses me about the (pop) music industry is this: > > - Everything's a love song. Yawn. > - Everything's so simple and easy to understand. Yawn. > - Performers are sex symbols first, and musicians second if at all. - > Nobody writes their own songs. - Nobody cares about albums. > > So when I'm not listening to Beethoven, Mahler, et al, I listen to Rush, > Dream Theater, et al. > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 14 17:03:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: DEC In-Reply-To: <3DFAC55E.6080806@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Dec 14, 2 00:45:02 am Message-ID: <m18NKOS-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 261 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021214/84680c76/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 14 17:03:40 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #319 - 51 msgs In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0212141838340.14831-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE> from "Johnny Billquist" at Dec 14, 2 07:06:19 pm Message-ID: <m18NLBt-000IzSC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 7948 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021214/cade9fd2/attachment.ksh From at258 at osfn.org Sat Dec 14 20:38:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: anus horribilis In-Reply-To: <m18NLBt-000IzSC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021214213910.18579C-100000@osfn.org> I have arrived. I was just spammed by Ron Popeil. From at258 at osfn.org Sat Dec 14 20:43:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: New bits In-Reply-To: <200212142217.RAA14312@conman.org> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021214214114.18579D-100000@osfn.org> We were just given a rather attractive AS/400. It is a bit large, and, apparently, recent. The beast seems to be dated 1997. From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 14 20:45:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: OT: Re: OT: Re: Re: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <S.0000096542@mythtech.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212141043430.16382-100000@siconic.com> On Sat, 14 Dec 2002, chris wrote: > >What I'm referring to is the recording industry claiming their sales have > >dropped. First of all, I want to see hard data to prove this. Second, I > >want this dat to be from an independent auditor. Lastly, I want an > >independent analyst to confirm whether this is because of rampant CD > >copying on college campuses or if it is as a result of the economy. > > I can't link to the report, because I don't recall where I saw it > (actually, I think I saw it in a local newspaper)... but there was one I > read recently that did site hard numbers to show that sales of CDs from > record stores have dropped over the last year (based on sales $$, they > didn't quote counts, so it could be from lowered prices, but since I > haven't noticed CD prices going lower, I doubt that). The numbers were of > course given by the RIAA, with no source quoted (so the assumption is it > is from their own internal book keeping). Those figures are meaningless to me. In an era where books are so cooked that they're Cajun style, I want independently audited numbers. > However, the article also nicely pointed out, that the figures the RIAA > were quoting were specifically for sales from record stores (ie: Tower, > Sam Goody, places like that). When asked about sales from ONLINE stores > (like Amazon.com), the RIAA said they didn't have those figures > available. Nor did they have available the sales from recording industry > web sites that offer MP3 purchases or similar. Of course not, because if they did provide those they would probably be shooting themselves in the foot, and they're not THAT stupid apparently. > Since they were claiming sales of CDs were down only something like 8 or > 9 million... I think it is pretty darn reasonable to say that those > missing dollars from store fronts could easily be accounted for from > online sales (and far more $$ I am sure). Or from a severely depressed economy. Perhaps they should be turning their focus towards the government and direct its ire at the real reason for sagging sales: a shitty economy made worse by a war mongering idiot and his den of opportunistic nincompoops. > This is the stuff you have to be VERY VERY careful to read between the > lines when looking at anyone's "facts and figures". You can distort this > kind of data into telling you anything you want it to say (I work in > Market Research... we are experts at distorting reality with numbers!) Exactly. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 14 20:48:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: Anyone want a UPS? In-Reply-To: <10212141845.ZM9344@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212141049150.16382-100000@siconic.com> On Sat, 14 Dec 2002 pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > This is a bit off-topic, because it's only a few years old. > > I've decided that the "big" UPS which has been sitting in my workshop, > unused, for almost a year, really is surplus to requirements, so it's free > to anyone *who can collect it* and feels like replacing the batteries. > > It's a Powerware Prestige 6000, with two battery boxes, software, manual, > and various cables. Input is rated 200/208/220/230/240V AC at 19A (power > factor 0.9) single phase, output is 200/208/220/230/240V AC at 19A (max > 3000W). The battery boxes are each rated 120V DC 50A and 5AH capacity. > Size is about 40cm deep x 25cm wide x 28 cm high for the control box and > the battery boxes are half the height, so 40 x 25 x 14 each. They all > stack nicely together (in any sensible order). > > I have used it, but the batteries (10 x 2V gel cells in each box) do need > replaced -- most will not hold any significant charge/voltage. > > It needs to be gone by Christmas, too, or it's going in the skip. I also have a huge UPS. It's a Sola 5KVa unit. It has sat dormant in my data closet for years now. I never got around to buying new batteries for it (too expensive and I don't know if the Sola unit itself has problems as it was arcing at one point). Is it worth rehabilitating or should I finally just junk it? The bitch is heavy (over 100lbs). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 14 20:50:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <S.0000096603@mythtech.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212141051020.16382-100000@siconic.com> On Sat, 14 Dec 2002, chris wrote: > THAT is what scares the hell out of them, and THAT is the heart of all > their complaints and cries for new laws. They are doing nothing more than > trying to secure the need for their own existance (with the wonderful > side effect of being able to have total control over what we see and hear > at all times) Ditto. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 14 20:52:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <001701c2a3a8$b7984c80$1843cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212141051350.16382-100000@siconic.com> On Sat, 14 Dec 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > As others have pointed out, what are the alternatives? Offer a viable, > > reasonably affordable alternative and the customers will come. Cling > > pathetically to an increasingly outmoded business model and you will be > > relegated to the dustbin of history. > > > I agree completely. But if the recording biz wants to destroy themselves that's > up to them. It doesn't justify theft. It certainly does not, but in the end they will lose the battle. So it's either adapt and evolve or be a dodo bird. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 14 20:53:44 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: anus horribilis In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021214213910.18579C-100000@osfn.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212141054000.16382-100000@siconic.com> On Sat, 14 Dec 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > I have arrived. I was just spammed by Ron Popeil. Eh? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Sat Dec 14 21:52:00 2002 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:35 2005 Subject: OT: anus horribilis References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212141054000.16382-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <00aa01c2a3ed$af0963c0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Subject: Re: anus horribilis the latin word for year is "annus". "anus" horribilis could mean a shitty year but from a more ~orifice~ point of view ;) regards, h Re Annus Mirabilis, the phrase has entered English because it was the title John Dryden gave to a poem he wrote described the events of 1666. These included a naval war with the Dutch, and the terrible Fire of London. When was it -- six years ago? -- that Windsor Palace was badly damaged by a fire and much other bad stuff happened to the British royal family, and Queen Elizabeth II described that year as an "annus horribilis." Thereby 1) she demonstrated a commendable knowledge of English literature, and 2) a pretty good grasp of Latin style. "Annus horribilis" ought to mean "a hair-raising year." That it was. From ipscone at msdsite.com Sat Dec 14 22:25:00 2002 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: Vintage Intel Markings In-Reply-To: <00aa01c2a3ed$af0963c0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Message-ID: <3DFB93F9.22217.2850115@localhost> I was trying to get some information on this old B1702A chip. I know it is a 256x8 chip but someone told me that "B" marked chips are normally gray with tin leads. This one is white ceramic with gold leads. I tried finding something on this but have not found this particular marking and colors. Anyone know the skinny? http://www.msdsite.com/temp/1702a2.jpg http://www.msdsite.com/temp/1702a.jpg I have 3 variations of these. The ones above, ones that are clearly marked C1702A (intel) and one marked C8702A (intel). I suspect even the unmarked one is inte. Thanks, Mike From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Sat Dec 14 22:27:00 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: OT: anus horribilis In-Reply-To: <00aa01c2a3ed$af0963c0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212141054000.16382-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021215152633.028afdf8@mail.vsm.com.au> At 10:54 PM 14/12/2002 -0500, Heinz Wolter wrote: >Subject: Re: anus horribilis > >the latin word for year is "annus". >"anus" horribilis could mean a shitty > year but from a more ~orifice~ point of view ;) >regards, >h > >Re Annus Mirabilis, the phrase has entered English because it was the title >John Dryden gave to a poem he wrote described the events of 1666. These >included a naval war with the Dutch, and the terrible Fire of London. > >When was it -- six years ago? -- that Windsor Palace was badly damaged by a >fire and much other bad stuff happened to the British royal family, and >Queen Elizabeth II described that year as an "annus horribilis." Thereby 1) >she demonstrated a commendable knowledge of English literature, and 2) a >pretty good grasp of Latin style. "Annus horribilis" ought to mean "a >hair-raising year." That it was. I understand that the speech writer for the Queen's "Annus Horribilis" talk admitted later that the declension was incorrect. I recall my parents saying something like that at the time (both of them had done Latin at school and in my mothers case, university as well). Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From msell at ontimesupport.com Sat Dec 14 22:40:01 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: Vintage Intel Markings In-Reply-To: <3DFB93F9.22217.2850115@localhost> References: <00aa01c2a3ed$af0963c0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021214224135.038ddde0@127.0.0.1> Military packaging perhaps? Just a thought. - Matt At 08:26 PM 12/14/2002 -0800, you wrote: >I was trying to get some information on this old B1702A chip. I know >it is a 256x8 chip but someone told me that "B" marked chips are >normally gray with tin leads. > >This one is white ceramic with gold leads. I tried finding something >on this but have not found this particular marking and colors. >Anyone know the skinny? > >http://www.msdsite.com/temp/1702a2.jpg >http://www.msdsite.com/temp/1702a.jpg > >I have 3 variations of these. The ones above, ones that are clearly >marked C1702A (intel) and one marked C8702A (intel). I suspect even >the unmarked one is inte. > >Thanks, >Mike Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021214/e670ad25/attachment.html From pietstan at rogers.com Sat Dec 14 22:56:00 2002 From: pietstan at rogers.com (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Re: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. References: <S.0000096542@mythtech.net> Message-ID: <3DFC0B9F.4080409@rogers.com> chris wrote: >>What I'm referring to is the recording industry claiming their sales have >>dropped. First of all, I want to see hard data to prove this. Second, I >>want this dat to be from an independent auditor. Lastly, I want an >>independent analyst to confirm whether this is because of rampant CD >>copying on college campuses or if it is as a result of the economy. >> > > I can't link to the report, because I don't recall where I saw it > (actually, I think I saw it in a local newspaper)... but there was one I > read recently that did site hard numbers to show that sales of CDs from > record stores have dropped over the last year (based on sales $$, they > didn't quote counts, so it could be from lowered prices, but since I > haven't noticed CD prices going lower, I doubt that). The numbers were of Or decreased sales couild simply be an indication that there is no recorded music out there that people are willing to buy (ie: listen to) because they like it enough to do so. I haven't heard too many acts that I enjoy enough to go out and buy the CD, but I may just be getting miserable / picky / cheap in my old age.... ;-}) Stan <<snip>> From mbg at TheWorld.com Sat Dec 14 23:55:01 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: Looking for pointers to specs... Message-ID: <200212150557.AAA80428846@shell.TheWorld.com> Can anyone point me to a description of the file format for a VMS backup file? I need to be able to read one on a unix (linux) system, but 'vmsbackup' doesn't recognize the contents of one of the vbn's and ends up core-dumping... (alternatively, is there a version of vmsbackup or something which can read full vms backups) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | | | | "this space | (s/ at /@/) | | unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From Innfogra at aol.com Sun Dec 15 00:50:01 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: Vintage Intel Markings Message-ID: <119.1c374632.2b2d80ad@aol.com> In a message dated 12/14/02 8:29:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, ipscone@msdsite.com writes: > http://www.msdsite.com/temp/1702a.jpg Well, the die on this one is clearly? marked "intel" with the early dropped "e". Is there anything stamped on the bottom of the chip, a date code or ? I really don't know the variations but I would not be surprised to see a white and gold version in any of intel's early chips. I am no help there. Paxton Astoria, OR Who is digging out his microscope to look at his 1702s. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021215/4fe44a87/attachment.html From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sun Dec 15 01:06:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: Looking for pointers to specs... Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C78B@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Which version of VMSbackup are you using to read the tape? I seem to have several.. V3.0, 3.1, 3.1.1, 4.1, 4.1.1 and 4.2 ... --f > -----Original Message----- > From: Megan [mailto:mbg@TheWorld.com] > Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 6:58 AM > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Looking for pointers to specs... > > > > Can anyone point me to a description of the file format for a > VMS backup file? I need to be able to read one on a unix (linux) > system, but 'vmsbackup' doesn't recognize the contents of one of > the vbn's and ends up core-dumping... > > (alternatively, is there a version of vmsbackup or something which > can read full vms backups) > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > > +--------------------------------+---------------------------- > ---------+ > | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at > world.std.com | > | | > | > | "this space | (s/ at /@/) > | > | unavoidably left blank" | URL: > http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | > | | "pdp-11 programmer - some > assembler | > | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg > KB1FCA | > +--------------------------------+---------------------------- > ---------+ > From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sun Dec 15 01:13:00 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. References: <200212142217.RAA14312@conman.org> Message-ID: <003801c2a409$c3eb3db0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> > It was thus said that the Great Wayne M. Smith once stated: > > > > > It was thus said that the Great Wayne M. Smith once stated: > > > > > > > > > -BZZZTTTT- Wrong answer... the recording industry contracts state that > > > > > Yes, you can ahve your contract audited, but only with a list of > > 'approved' > > > > > auditors, as a matter of fact if you show your contract to ANYONE you are > > > > > in violation of the contract. > > > > > > > > I don't think that's right. There are restrictions that prevent hiring an > > > > auditor on a contingency fee basis, and using an auditor who is performing > > an > > > > audit of the same company on behalf of another artist at the same time. I > > have > > > > never heard of the "approved list" you mention. > > > > > > According to Steve Albini [1] a band who sells 250,000 albums (not that > > > bad a showing) will make $710,000 for the record company, and only $4,000 > > > *per band member*. $4,000. Given that an audit can cost anywhere from > > > $10,000-$100,000 [2], even if the band in question *wanted* an audit, they > > > aren't going to very well afford one, are they? And there *are* > > > restrictions on what they can audit [3], but I've yet to find any > > > restrictions on who can do the auditing. > > > > I read Albini's article. The $710,000 number he puts out is "gross proft" which > > is not what the record company makes. The net is much lower. > > So you mean that the artist makes even *less* than $4,000? > > And you are still defending the RIAA? > > While not the music industry, it is well known that you *never* agree to a > percentage of the net in Hollywood (movie industry) but of the *gross* since > *no* movie ever *nets* if the accountants are any good. Even a movie > pulling in thrice what it cost is still considered having lost money (I > suspect it has to pull in ten times the amount before a net profit is > called). > > -spc (How pulling in three times the expense can still be considered > loosing money I will never know ... ) > Please don't stoop to labeling me a defender of the RIAA because you disagree with me -- I am defending nothing but my own opinions. Under GAAP, "gross profits" does not include overhead, and many, many companies that show a gross profit also show a net loss. In simpler terms, "gross profits" does not equal "profits". You need to compare apples to apples. Participations defnitions labeled "gross profits" have not been used in the entertainment industry since the Buchwald case ten years ago. Buchwald argued that because the studios labeled their participations definition "gross profits," they should be stuck with the GAAP definition. That was the end of participations based on "gross profits" definitions. Since then, participations are calculated against "defined proceeds". I suspect that your notions of what a movie "pulls in" and its profitability are based on box office receipts compared to negative cost. Given that the studios only receive about 1/2 the domestic box-office receipts, and only about 40% of foreign, and that the reported "cost" of making a movie does not include prints and advertising, a movie does in fact need to "pull in" about three times its cost in the box office in order to break even -- at that point in its distribution. Because this happens with only a small percentage of films, most don't make anything, if in fact they ever do, until the money from DVD and television sales rolls in. From ipscone at msdsite.com Sun Dec 15 01:20:01 2002 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: Vintage Intel Markings In-Reply-To: <119.1c374632.2b2d80ad@aol.com> Message-ID: <3DFBBCFC.20420.325398B@localhost> The chip has Malaysia and the datecode is 7514. Mike > In a message dated 12/14/02 8:29:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, > ipscone@msdsite.com writes: > > > > http://www.msdsite.com/temp/1702a.jpg > > Well, the die on this one is clearly? marked "intel" with the early > dropped "e". > > Is there anything stamped on the bottom of the chip, a date code or ? > > I really don't know the variations but I would not be surprised to see > a white and gold version in any of intel's early chips. I am no help > there. > > Paxton > Astoria, OR > > Who is digging out his microscope to look at his 1702s. > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Dec 15 02:25:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <3DFB5BCE.24398.1974ADF8@localhost> References: <8680319808.20021214121727@subatomix.com> <003501c2a32c$04e6fa90$1843cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021215002302.00a09290@pop-server.socal.rr.com> > One of the good things that happened in the late 50s and 60s was >that for a time the "Biz" got out of control of an industry that had >fallen behind the current musical tastes. Whoops, correction made >by the mid-sixties, and rigid enforcement and standardization of play >lists brought "pop music" (and R&R for that matter) firmly under their Don't forget the 70's where FM emerged as a uncontrolled source of music, and hundreds of small labels sprang up with all sorts of great, or at least unique, music. Then came the CD and record label control of available pressing plants killed off all the independents save maybe an eclectic handful. No this MP3 stuff has them seriously worried about control and survival. From geoffr at zipcon.net Sun Dec 15 03:24:01 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <3DFB5BCE.24398.1974ADF8@localhost> References: <8680319808.20021214121727@subatomix.com> <003501c2a32c$04e6fa90$1843cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021215012817.02e7e0e0@mail.zipcon.net> At 04:26 PM 12/14/02 -0600, you wrote: > That I would suspect is a spectre haunting industry execs more than >Napster and pirated CDs. It also relates to their efforts to control the >i'net a potentialy very dangerous distribution rival. You know, the things they are saying about MP3's and cd copying is the same drivel they were saying about cassette copying and 8-track copying before that... and i presume reel-to-reel before that.... From hansp at aconit.org Sun Dec 15 03:50:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. References: <8680319808.20021214121727@subatomix.com> <003501c2a32c$04e6fa90$1843cd18@D73KSM11> <5.1.1.6.2.20021215012817.02e7e0e0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <3DFC50E3.7060600@aconit.org> Geoff Reed wrote: > You know, the things they are saying about MP3's and cd copying is the > same drivel they were saying about cassette copying and 8-track copying > before that... and i presume reel-to-reel before that.... And before that the concert impressarios complained that that new fangled phonograph invented by Edison would surely put them all out of business!! -- hbp From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Dec 15 03:53:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: Brag: Scope probes Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212150343280.751-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> I *finally* managed to get probes for my Tektronix 2213 scopes late this last week. I still can't quite decide which project to tackle first ;P Unfortunately, most of the P6120 probes are missing the slip-on clip and ground leads, so I appear to have some more searching ahead of me. Only one probe has a ground lead, which has obviously been damaged and repaired by a previous owner. I suspect and hope that the ground leads and clips will be easier to find than the rest of the probe. Does anyone know offhand of a source for these parts? I don't expect Tektronix to have the parts still available, since they told me that they sold off all parts and spares for the 2213 series to GTE. The last time I talked to someone at GTE about 2213 parts, they were less than helpful, and suggested I either send them the scope for repairs (it just needs the plastic front panel) or go buy a new scope. -Toth From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Dec 15 04:05:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021215002302.00a09290@pop-server.socal.rr.com> References: <3DFB5BCE.24398.1974ADF8@localhost> Message-ID: <3DFC00DE.18545.1BF98EFE@localhost> Oops I displaced that by a decade. Should be midsixties to midseventies. To us old farts one decade looks much like another. However, I meant controlling the media and it isn't only the MP3 thing that has them worried. Amazingly good quality music can be produced in home studios using IT and can then be used to produce your own CD to be sold at shows or transmitted via the internet. The recent moves to force alternate radio to pay exhorbitant RIAA and ASCAP royalties is also a part of it. They're trying to shut it down before it gets to a point where they can't control it. Hopefully it's too late. And considering their sorry history of ripping off artists the crocodile tears they are shedding for the creative artist is laughable. As many professional musician friends of mine have said, " the music part of it is great, the business side of it sucks". From club owners, to producers , to record companies, and broadcasters. The few who AREN'T leeches are the exceptions. I say to the Napster kids, go for it, burn the bastards. And the film industry stinks just as highly. Very little good or original film comes out of Hollywood. And when they do gamble and it wins big, they milk it to death by doing the same format over and over until the public grows tired of it. Most of the best stuff comes from independents and foreign film. But of course the control lies in the distribution which Hollywood has by the throat, even here in Canada. If you can't show it in the tightly controlled theatre networks, you can't make back production costs. Another area ripe for assault. Lawrence On 15 Dec 2002, , Mike Ford wrote: > > > One of the good things that happened in the late 50s and 60s was > >that for a time the "Biz" got out of control of an industry that had > >fallen behind the current musical tastes. Whoops, correction made by > >the mid-sixties, and rigid enforcement and standardization of play > >lists brought "pop music" (and R&R for that matter) firmly under their > > > Don't forget the 70's where FM emerged as a uncontrolled source of > music, and hundreds of small labels sprang up with all sorts of great, > or at least unique, music. Then came the CD and record label control of > available pressing plants killed off all the independents save maybe an > eclectic handful. No this MP3 stuff has them seriously worried about > control and survival. > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 15 06:01:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: anus horribilis In-Reply-To: "Merle K. Peirce" <at258@osfn.org> "Re: anus horribilis" (Dec 14, 21:40) References: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021214213910.18579C-100000@osfn.org> Message-ID: <10212151203.ZM9927@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 14, 21:40, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > I have arrived. I was just spammed by Ron Popeil. :-) But did you buy <whatever it was>? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 15 06:29:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: Anyone want a UPS? In-Reply-To: Sellam Ismail <foo@siconic.com> "Re: Anyone want a UPS?" (Dec 14, 10:50) References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212141049150.16382-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <10212151231.ZM9947@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 14, 10:50, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sat, 14 Dec 2002 pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > > > I've decided that the "big" UPS which has been sitting in my workshop, > > unused, for almost a year, really is surplus to requirements, so it's free > > to anyone *who can collect it* and feels like replacing the batteries. > I also have a huge UPS. It's a Sola 5KVa unit. It has sat dormant in my > data closet for years now. I never got around to buying new batteries for > it (too expensive and I don't know if the Sola unit itself has problems as > it was arcing at one point). > > Is it worth rehabilitating or should I finally just junk it? The bitch is > heavy (over 100lbs). Any reasonable UPS will be heavy, because big batteries are heavy :-) Whether it's worth doing anything with it depends on whether you need a high-current or long-duration UPS. That one would allow you to boil the kettle for a cup of tea (or run the coffeemaker) during those power outages when there's nothing else you can do :-) It's not that hard to come by second-hand UPSs, the usual fault being that the batteries have gone bad (sulphated), and that's usually because people don't cycle them properly. There's some evidence to suggest that -- providing they've not gone too far -- high current high-frequency pulses can rejuvenate lead-acid batteries, and there are some circuits around designed to provide the remedy. I built one, and it seems to work, so long as the cells have *some* life left. Measure the voltage on each cell. If it's below 1V, or the cell looks at all swollen or distorted, it's past redemption. http://www.shaka.com/~kalepa/desulf.htm -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sun Dec 15 06:33:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: Digital music (was: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article) Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FDE1@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Hi, Regarding the being able to work around expensive studios to produce music: yes. I know a (computer-audio-) guy who spent EUR 50K on a bunch of digital "studio" audio equipment (mixing, levellers, edit workbench, etc) and computers for work and storage (I did that part for them), and he then teamed up with an "analog" audio guy who set up the "analog" part of their setup (mikes, recording room, whatnot.) They now make a good living doing recordings and mastering sessions for artists in Holland and Belgium- both starting ones __and__ some known ones. They recently asked me to again help them with setting up a digital music distribution and delivery system, as their "customers" (artists) asked them to also act as their "record company" using New Media. When they have done the legal legwork, I'll be building an online record store for them, with an almost direct link to the studio. So... yes. It can be done, and it can work well. The traditional companies in that field are scared shitless, because THEY HAVE NO CLUE as to what's hitting them. Youth today _really_ doesn't care [anymore] about 101% [sic] pure audio quality, they are _fine_ with 192Kbps MP3/Pro files which then can then stuff onto a CD. I am, too, often. The proposed "album" price in the "shop" above was EUR 8 to EUR 10 (about same for US$), and their short investigation has shown that customers were OK with that, including the fact that they had to download the stuff. [Optionally, the "shop" will have a CD-R/DVD-R burning service, by the way, for, I believe, EUR 2.5 plus shipping] The latest rumor is, that a wellknown Dutch concert managing agency has contacted them whether or not they would be able and willing to handle _all_ their live recordings of gigs, including.. yes, the "shop". Traditionally, "live albums" are sucked dry by studios and recording companies- the artists get very little out of them. This "New Shop" (hey, that sounds familiar.. hmm...) doesn't have to, so artists AND fans benefit. Again, dunno where this is going, as it's not there yet. I am a consultant, so, advise on the technical issues. But, while busy doing that, I did notice that the "other" guys were scared shitless _all_ the time, and didn't know what to say _most_ of the time I was there... The same most probably goes for the video/movie industry... dunno about that world, but there, the "distribution channel" is even more powerful.... Cheers, Fred From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sun Dec 15 06:46:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: Anyone want a UPS? Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FDE2@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > Any reasonable UPS will be heavy, because big batteries are heavy :-) Yes. Although my machine room currently runs on two 2400VA boxes, (note: we use 220VAC here, not 110..), they will soon be replaced by two new systems that do 3000VA each, with a 500VAC feed. The fun part is, that they have modular run time by adding battery boxes ("stack em up!"), AND (what I just learned half an hour ago! %-] they have a provision for connecting an external generator. Which I have. :) (OKOK... legally I am not allowed to run that thing for extended periods of time, but I _do_ have permission to have it fired up for emergency purposes, soo... hey! ;-) I guess I'll spend the week between xmas and new year's rewiring, and doing power measurements on the circuits.... Oh- and the real fun thing is: both one of the current UPS'es, and the new ones, have ethernet SNMP monitoring.. I can actually ping my UPS: H:\>ping ups Pinging ups0.microwalt.nl [10.0.95.7] with 32 bytes of data: Reply from 10.0.95.7: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=255 Reply from 10.0.95.7: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=255 Reply from 10.0.95.7: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=255 Reply from 10.0.95.7: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=255 Ping statistics for 10.0.95.7: Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss), Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds: Minimum = 10ms, Maximum = 10ms, Average = 10ms H:\> which is truly fun :) --fred From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Sun Dec 15 07:07:01 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: Looking for pointers to specs... In-Reply-To: <200212150557.AAA80428846@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021216000752.028b54b0@mail.vsm.com.au> At 12:57 AM 15/12/2002 -0500, Megan wrote: >Can anyone point me to a description of the file format for a >VMS backup file? I need to be able to read one on a unix (linux) >system, but 'vmsbackup' doesn't recognize the contents of one of >the vbn's and ends up core-dumping... > >(alternatively, is there a version of vmsbackup or something which >can read full vms backups) From an increasingly rusty memory, I think that the Backup format was last documented in the V3 VMS documentation kit (it might have been V4 - it's been a long time). Having said that, I don't have a copy but someone out there might be able to get it to you. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 15 07:21:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: Anyone want a UPS? In-Reply-To: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen@microwalt.nl> "RE: Anyone want a UPS?" (Dec 15, 13:48) References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FDE2@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <10212151323.ZM9998@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 15, 13:48, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Oh- and the real fun thing is: both one of the current UPS'es, and the new > ones, have ethernet SNMP monitoring.. I can actually ping my UPS: > which is truly fun :) Yes, it is. Our "big" UPS (30kVA, 3-phase, for 30 minutes) has that via an external box, and our "little" UPSs have it built in (USHA cards). And I get to play^Wlook after them (well, it's a network device, right?) There's a standard MIB for UPSs with all sorts of useful things in it. Anyone who has a serial-only UPS should be able to rig something up with the NUT (Network UPS Tools) software: http://www.exploits.org/nut/ or by using something like a Sinetica NetCom box: http://www.sinetica.co.uk/ Every home should have one ;-) My main server at home is now on an APC UPS. It didn't used to be, because it had quite a long uptime when I got that particular UPS, and I didn't want to spoil that. I was waiting to see it roll past the magic 10000 hours (about 416 days; and no, it's not a PC) to switch it over -- and the day before that, we had a power cut :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From mbg at TheWorld.com Sun Dec 15 07:58:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: Looking for pointers to specs... Message-ID: <200212151400.JAA77653526@shell.TheWorld.com> >Which version of VMSbackup are you using to read the tape? Unfortunately I don't know (remember) which version was used to create the disk image... it was done about 8-10 years ago. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | | | | "this space | (s/ at /@/) | | unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sun Dec 15 08:13:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: Looking for pointers to specs... Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C799@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Megan, I'll take it off-list.. --f > -----Original Message----- > From: Megan [mailto:mbg@TheWorld.com] > Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 3:00 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Looking for pointers to specs... > > > >Which version of VMSbackup are you using to read the tape? > > Unfortunately I don't know (remember) which version was used > to create the disk image... it was done about 8-10 years ago. > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > > +--------------------------------+---------------------------- > ---------+ > | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at > world.std.com | > | | > | > | "this space | (s/ at /@/) > | > | unavoidably left blank" | URL: > http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | > | | "pdp-11 programmer - some > assembler | > | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg > KB1FCA | > +--------------------------------+---------------------------- > ---------+ > From bqt at update.uu.se Sun Dec 15 08:23:00 2002 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: RL drives In-Reply-To: <20021215130701.49112.97553.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0212151413340.14831-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE> On Sun, 15 Dec 2002 ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > On Thu, 12 Dec 2002 ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > > > > > > > Huh? No. Actually, the data track itself is used as the servo signal. The > > > > head centers in on the track by centering on where the amplitude is > > > > strongest. > > > > > > Do you have any evidence for that? > > > > Yup. I quote: > > "1.3.3.2 Sector Format - As shown in Figure 1-3, each sector contains: > > OK, let me quote the RL01/RL02 Disk Drive Technical Manual. [...] Seems like you had the better manual at hand. I'll check it out tomorrow, when I'll pass by where I have that manual. > > * Servo information for head positioning > > Sure, I'll agree the servo bursts are in the sector header. They are just > not radially aligned with the data track. I guess you're working from a > manual that oversimplifies things. RL01/RL02 Disk Subsystem User's Guide. > > Eh. This is on most controller not something you check or take care about > > in software, but hardware. When you specify to the controller (for > > instance en RK11) that you want track 10, it both figures out how many > > tracks the heads need to move, and in which direction. It then checks that > > you really are at the right track, otherwise you get an error back. > > I am _darn_ sure the seek function on an RK11 doesn't check sector > headers (I would have to actually dig out the prints to be sure). I know > I've used it to move heads around on the alignment pack, which doesn't > have convnetionally recorded headers. Quite apart from the fact that an > RK05/RK11 can seek on a blank disk so as to be able to format it (a blank > RK05 pack really is blank). We must have been talking past each other here. I didn't mean that the controller/drive made a check on the disk that it was on the right track. The drive *knows* it's on the right track, without checking. Like you said, the RK05 can seek on a blank disk, and format it. > > The RL11 have no such sophistication. You request a head move, and the > > drive hopefully does it, and then you can carry on with the next > > That's what most controllers do. The difference is that on the RK11, you > specify the cylinder you want to move to, and the drive (hopefully) goes > there. You then have to check headers. On the RL11, you have to work out > how many cylinders to move and in which direction (That bit of the > calculation is done automatically by the RK system). No, on an RK11 (well, admittedly I've mostly played with the RK8E) you really don't ever check the header yourself. In fact, you can actually start the disk transfer even if you're not on the right track. The drive will do an implicit seek as a part of the transfer for you. Also, track switching can occur in the middle of the transfer, without you seeing or caring about it. Not on the RL. You cannot even switch heads in the middle of a transfer. > > information is constantly checked by the controller, it should be > > Eh, if you're making your own controller, you don't need to check the > headers... True. But noone said we were going to build our own controller until now. :-) > > Basically, if you don't have the servo information correct on the platter, > > the drive will signal errors to the controller, and the controller which > > just miserably fail unless header infomration keep coming in when the > > drive is running. > > Ifyou don't have the correct servo information, the drive won't keep the > heads loaded (well, it certainly won't keep them on-track). At this > point, no controller could do anything useful with the drive. Unless you have a drive without servo information, such as the RK05. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From at258 at osfn.org Sun Dec 15 08:54:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: OT: anus horribilis In-Reply-To: <00aa01c2a3ed$af0963c0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021215095549.5242A-100000@osfn.org> I'm not sure that the content was temporally restricted. On Sat, 14 Dec 2002, Heinz Wolter wrote: > Subject: Re: anus horribilis > > the latin word for year is "annus". > "anus" horribilis could mean a shitty > year but from a more ~orifice~ point of view ;) > regards, > h > > Re Annus Mirabilis, the phrase has entered English because it was the title > John Dryden gave to a poem he wrote described the events of 1666. These > included a naval war with the Dutch, and the terrible Fire of London. > > When was it -- six years ago? -- that Windsor Palace was badly damaged by a > fire and much other bad stuff happened to the British royal family, and > Queen Elizabeth II described that year as an "annus horribilis." Thereby 1) > she demonstrated a commendable knowledge of English literature, and 2) a > pretty good grasp of Latin style. "Annus horribilis" ought to mean "a > hair-raising year." That it was. > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From at258 at osfn.org Sun Dec 15 09:04:01 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: anus horribilis In-Reply-To: <10212151203.ZM9927@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021215100549.5242B-100000@osfn.org> Absolutely not. I was appalled he had spread from the telly to the internet. On Sun, 15 Dec 2002 pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > On Dec 14, 21:40, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > > > I have arrived. I was just spammed by Ron Popeil. > > :-) But did you buy <whatever it was>? > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sun Dec 15 11:36:01 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: anus horribilis References: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021214213910.18579C-100000@osfn.org> Message-ID: <3DFCCB05.5A347220@ccp.com> "Merle K. Peirce" wrote: > > I have arrived. I was just spammed by Ron Popeil. Was it the rotisserie oven, the fake hair spray, the Cap snaffler, or the pocket fisherman? Enquiring minds need to know. Gary Hildebrand From foo at siconic.com Sun Dec 15 11:38:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <3DFC50E3.7060600@aconit.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212150138420.18613-100000@siconic.com> On Sun, 15 Dec 2002, Hans B Pufal wrote: > Geoff Reed wrote: > > > You know, the things they are saying about MP3's and cd copying is the > > same drivel they were saying about cassette copying and 8-track copying > > before that... and i presume reel-to-reel before that.... > > And before that the concert impressarios complained that that new > fangled phonograph invented by Edison would surely put them all out of > business!! There was the same argument against player pianos as well. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Dec 15 12:29:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <OHENIDDKMMADIAHOLNMCCEDKCOAA.ernestls@attbi.com> Message-ID: <010c01c2a468$0eef8f10$020010ac@k4jcw> $3850! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2080413427 --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ernest Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 13:53 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. I wouldn't normally post this kind of ad here but considering how unique this system is, I thought that some of you might want to know about the auction. It's a non-revision Apple II, serial #2000. It also has the old style toggle switch power supply, and the system works. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2080413427&indexURL=1#eba yphotohosting Ernest From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Sun Dec 15 13:34:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: Looking for N* parts Message-ID: <BAY1-F157zadTMVwVn200002c54@hotmail.com> I have N* software on floppies plus a bunch of hard-sectored 5.25" floppies... Interested? Will J _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Dec 15 14:16:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021215012817.02e7e0e0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212151217280.10390-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> On Sun, 15 Dec 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > You know, the things they are saying about MP3's and cd copying is the same > drivel they were saying about cassette copying and 8-track copying before > that... and i presume reel-to-reel before that.... player piano reels (it really was an argued issue) manuscripts From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Dec 15 14:30:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <3DFC50E3.7060600@aconit.org> Message-ID: <3DFC937D.32216.209E31@localhost> And of course Edison went to great lengths to show that the competing AC of Tesla would electrocute everybody. (And incidentally take profits from his DC, Edison Electric company) Lawrence On 15 Dec 2002, , Hans B Pufal wrote: > Geoff Reed wrote: > > > You know, the things they are saying about MP3's and cd copying is the > > same drivel they were saying about cassette copying and 8-track > > copying before that... and i presume reel-to-reel before that.... > > And before that the concert impressarios complained that that new > fangled phonograph invented by Edison would surely put them all out of > business!! > > -- hbp > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Dec 15 14:37:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <010c01c2a468$0eef8f10$020010ac@k4jcw> References: <OHENIDDKMMADIAHOLNMCCEDKCOAA.ernestls@attbi.com> Message-ID: <3DFC951F.22217.2700EB@localhost> AND it was sniped. Went from $1535 to the final $3850 in the final 2 minutes. Lawrence On 15 Dec 2002, , J.C.Wren wrote: > $3850! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2080413427 > > --John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Ernest Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 13:53 To: > cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. > > > I wouldn't normally post this kind of ad here but considering how > unique > this system is, I thought that some of you might want to know about the > auction. It's a non-revision Apple II, serial #2000. It also has the old > style toggle switch power supply, and the system works. > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2080413427&indexURL=1 > #eba yphotohosting > > > Ernest > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From jingber at ix.netcom.com Sun Dec 15 14:43:01 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <3DFC951F.22217.2700EB@localhost> References: <OHENIDDKMMADIAHOLNMCCEDKCOAA.ernestls@attbi.com> <3DFC951F.22217.2700EB@localhost> Message-ID: <1039985085.17474.72.camel@supermicro> What does that machine do that a 'normal' Apple II doesn't? Jeff On Sun, 2002-12-15 at 15:43, Lawrence Walker wrote: > AND it was sniped. Went from $1535 to the final $3850 in the final 2 > minutes. > > Lawrence > > On 15 Dec 2002, , J.C.Wren wrote: > > > $3850! > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2080413427 > > > > --John > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Ernest Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 13:53 To: > > cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. > > > > > > I wouldn't normally post this kind of ad here but considering how > > unique > > this system is, I thought that some of you might want to know about the > > auction. It's a non-revision Apple II, serial #2000. It also has the old > > style toggle switch power supply, and the system works. > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2080413427&indexURL=1 > > #eba yphotohosting > > > > > > Ernest > > > > > > > lgwalker@mts.net > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Dec 15 15:02:41 2002 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: Multiple VAXen available Message-ID: <200212151303420489.17AC68B7@192.168.42.129> LOCAL PICKUP ONLY -- SHIPPING NOT AVAILABLE DUE TO SIZE/WEIGHT ---- Fellow Classiccomp'ers and VAXen-lovers, I need to make room. I've got three MicroVAXen in great shape that I want to get out of here. One is a MicroVAX 3 in the BA123 (end table) cabinet with 32MB RAM. I've SCSI-fied it with a Sigma RQD11S card. Said card will handle both disk and tape drives. In fact, this particular machine already has NetBSD (don't remember which version) loaded. Second machine: VAX 4000-200 in the skinny tower cabinet. This one also works well, though I don't remember how much memory it has. It had a CMD CQD220 SCSI card in it which has been transferred (by me) to Machine #3, which is... A VAX 4000-400 in the 'wide' tower cabinet. Also works well, and I think it's got either 48 or 64 megs RAM. ALSO INCLUDED: MicroVAX hardware service manuals, whatever spare DEC'ish boards I have left, etc. Here's the deal; I'm located in Kent, WA (southeast of Seattle by about 35 minutes). I don't have the facilities to palletize this stuff or get it shipped, so we're doing LOCAL PICKUP ONLY. Because of the SCSI cards, and the fact that there's lots of extras. I'm going to ask a price of $150.00 or best offer for the whole works. YOU PICK UP -- SHIPPING NOT AVAILABLE. You can contact me via E-mail at the human-readable address in my signature block. If your reply bounces, use my backup address of kc7gr (a/t) qsl dot net. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Sun Dec 15 15:13:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: Looking for pointers to specs... Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AFEC@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >Unfortunately I don't know (remember) which version was used >to create the disk image... it was done about 8-10 years ago. If you have access to OpenVMS, you can run BACKUP/ANA to produce a whole bunch of extra information about what is in there. Antonio From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Sun Dec 15 15:16:01 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: DEC Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AFED@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >It's always 'Deck' round here, at least amongst hackers. DEC employees >pronounced it 'Digital' and tended to get annoyed when I refered to the >company as 'Deck'. You obviously met the wrong employees :-) From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Dec 15 15:50:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <3DFC951F.22217.2700EB@localhost> References: <OHENIDDKMMADIAHOLNMCCEDKCOAA.ernestls@attbi.com> <3DFC951F.22217.2700EB@localhost> Message-ID: <32819.64.169.63.74.1039989131.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Lawrence wrote: > AND it was sniped. Went from $1535 to the final $3850 in the final 2 > minutes. Did you really expect otherwise? That's how most things that aren't really common go. Though it seems somewhat strange for an Apple ][, even an early one, to be considered "rare". Anyhow, if I had bid on it, I certainly would have waited until the last ten seconds. There is basically NO upside to bidding early. And if people discover that you're bidding on stuff they're interested in, they start watching what you bid on as another way of finding stuff they might want. From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Dec 15 15:52:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <1039985085.17474.72.camel@supermicro> References: <OHENIDDKMMADIAHOLNMCCEDKCOAA.ernestls@attbi.com> <3DFC951F.22217.2700EB@localhost> <1039985085.17474.72.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <32821.64.169.63.74.1039989255.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Jeffrey asks: > What does that machine do that a 'normal' Apple II doesn't? Nothing. In fact, it does less. It only has four colors in hires graphics mode (white, black, and two actual colors) vs. six colors for later units. And it might not have the power-on-reset circuit, so you might manually have to hit the reset key after powering it up. And contrary to the seller's claims, it is missing the original monitor ROM, which was replaced by an Autostart ROM. From cbajpai at attbi.com Sun Dec 15 15:56:01 2002 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <1039985085.17474.72.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <000001c2a484$f38c6d20$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> I think it was the earliest serial # Apple II to go on sale (#2000 I believe). The fact that it had document + in working condition was a big plus. I'm not sure I would have paid $3800 though. Btw - Does anyone know who the guy at ebay user id 'abeclassic' is? I wish I had his deep pockets...he bids on a lot of things and definitely outspends everyone. Some times I wonder if it's worth bidding on if he his even thinking about the same item. http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewBidItems&u serid=abeclassic&completed=1&sort=3&all=1&rows=25 -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey H. Ingber Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 3:45 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: 1977 Apple II for sale. What does that machine do that a 'normal' Apple II doesn't? Jeff On Sun, 2002-12-15 at 15:43, Lawrence Walker wrote: > AND it was sniped. Went from $1535 to the final $3850 in the final 2 > minutes. > > Lawrence > > On 15 Dec 2002, , J.C.Wren wrote: > > > $3850! > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2080413427 > > > > --John > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Ernest Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 13:53 To: > > cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. > > > > > > I wouldn't normally post this kind of ad here but considering how > > unique > > this system is, I thought that some of you might want to know about the > > auction. It's a non-revision Apple II, serial #2000. It also has the old > > style toggle switch power supply, and the system works. > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2080413427&indexURL=1 > > #eba yphotohosting > > > > > > Ernest > > > > > > > lgwalker@mts.net > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Dec 15 16:12:12 2002 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: All Equipment Claimed Message-ID: <200212151414280713.17ED32A2@192.168.42.129> Thanks for putting up with my earlier ad. All the VAXen equipment I posted about has been claimed. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From jingber at ix.netcom.com Sun Dec 15 16:25:00 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <000001c2a484$f38c6d20$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> References: <000001c2a484$f38c6d20$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <1039991162.17474.81.camel@supermicro> On Sun, 2002-12-15 at 16:57, Chandra Bajpai wrote: > I think it was the earliest serial # Apple II to go on sale (#2000 I > believe). The fact that it had document + in working condition was a > big plus. Which would indicate that several thousand were produced. I personally would never spend that kind of money on an Apple II, but I guess everyone has their priorities. I've seen all kinds of outrageous prices paid for machines like Apple II, Commodores, Sinclairs, etc., which I really don't consider interesting enough to spend money on. One of the strangest was a copy of CP/M-86 1.0 in the IBM binder that sold for nearly $800. I know of at least three placed on the 'net that would be happy to sell you the same item, NOS, for $30.00 or less. Jeff > > I'm not sure I would have paid $3800 though. > > Btw - Does anyone know who the guy at ebay user id 'abeclassic' is? I > wish I had his deep pockets...he bids on a lot of things and definitely > outspends everyone. Some times I wonder if it's worth bidding on if he > his even thinking about the same item. > > http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewBidItems&u > serid=abeclassic&completed=1&sort=3&all=1&rows=25 > > > -Chandra > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Jeffrey H. Ingber > Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 3:45 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: 1977 Apple II for sale. > > What does that machine do that a 'normal' Apple II doesn't? > > Jeff > > > On Sun, 2002-12-15 at 15:43, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > AND it was sniped. Went from $1535 to the final $3850 in the final 2 > > minutes. > > > > Lawrence > > > > On 15 Dec 2002, , J.C.Wren wrote: > > > > > $3850! > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2080413427 > > > > > > --John > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > > Behalf Of Ernest Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 13:53 To: > > > cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. > > > > > > > > > I wouldn't normally post this kind of ad here but considering how > > > unique > > > this system is, I thought that some of you might want to know about > the > > > auction. It's a non-revision Apple II, serial #2000. It also has the > old > > > style toggle switch power supply, and the system works. > > > > > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2080413427&indexURL=1 > > > #eba yphotohosting > > > > > > > > > Ernest > > > > > > > > > > > > lgwalker@mts.net > > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com > > From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Sun Dec 15 16:30:00 2002 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <000001c2a484$f38c6d20$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> References: <1039985085.17474.72.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <3DFC9223.18354.4C19D08@localhost> From: "Chandra Bajpai" <cbajpai@attbi.com> To: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Subject: RE: 1977 Apple II for sale. Send reply to: cctalk@classiccmp.org <mailto:cctalk-request@classiccmp.org?subject=unsubscribe> <mailto:cctalk-request@classiccmp.org?subject=subscribe> Date sent: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 16:57:24 -0500 > Btw - Does anyone know who the guy at ebay user id 'abeclassic' is? I > wish I had his deep pockets...he bids on a lot of things and > definitely outspends everyone. Some times I wonder if it's worth > bidding on if he his even thinking about the same item. > Whoever he is, I sure hope he takes an interest in our auctions. Sales have been so pathetic the past month or two (coupled with a rash of super late and deadbeat bidders), that we could really use a big spender like that guy to buy some of our stuff. It would help get the bills paid, plus help us comply with what I decreed at the beginning of the year as the Clutter Reduction Act of 2002. :) From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Dec 15 16:44:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <1039991162.17474.81.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021215174412.17524C-100000@osfn.org> > Which would indicate that several thousand were produced. Many (most) manufacturers do not start with s/n 1, thanks to the marketing people. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Dec 15 16:52:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021215174412.17524C-100000@osfn.org> Message-ID: <011a01c2a48c$e2f26bb0$020010ac@k4jcw> While this is true, it's also often not the only reason. We start production manufacturing numbering at various numbers, usually even thousands, because we use early numbers for runs that validate the production line before going high volume. I.e., we might make 85 test units getting the line set up. Since it's the same PC board and same revision, etc, we assign them real serial numbers. They just never leave the plant. And we start the ones intended to ship at unit number 1000. If we have to do 2 setup/validation runs, we'd start them at 2000. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of William Donzelli Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 17:46 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: 1977 Apple II for sale. > Which would indicate that several thousand were produced. Many (most) manufacturers do not start with s/n 1, thanks to the marketing people. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sun Dec 15 17:34:00 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:36 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. References: <OHENIDDKMMADIAHOLNMCCEDKCOAA.ernestls@attbi.com> <3DFC951F.22217.2700EB@localhost> <1039985085.17474.72.camel@supermicro> <32821.64.169.63.74.1039989255.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3DFD1213.6050506@gifford.co.uk> Eric Smith wrote: > Jeffrey asks: > >>What does that machine do that a 'normal' Apple II doesn't? Sell for $3800 on ebay? Sorry, must the the right time of night for awful jokes. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 15 18:25:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: RL drives In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0212151413340.14831-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE> from "Johnny Billquist" at Dec 15, 2 03:25:03 pm Message-ID: <m18Nj09-000IzYC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4104 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021215/f90b1cd1/attachment.ksh From fernande at internet1.net Sun Dec 15 19:07:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. References: <000001c2a484$f38c6d20$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> <1039991162.17474.81.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <3DFD27C3.3020008@internet1.net> Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote: > One of the strangest was a copy of CP/M-86 1.0 in the IBM binder that > sold for nearly $800. I know of at least three placed on the 'net that > would be happy to sell you the same item, NOS, for $30.00 or less. > > Jeff That sounds like a collector not knowing enough about what he is collecting, and assuming it's rare because of the 1.0 version number. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Sun Dec 15 19:16:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. References: <1039985085.17474.72.camel@supermicro> <3DFC9223.18354.4C19D08@localhost> Message-ID: <3DFD29BB.8080305@internet1.net> Scarletdown wrote: > It would help > get the bills paid, plus help us comply with what I decreed at the > beginning of the year as the Clutter Reduction Act of 2002. :) I've reduced much clutter, but am still having problems. I just moved, and my friends, that helped, made me very much aware that I have too many unfinished projects. In fact, since they aren't computer guys, they identified my disassembled DEC BA123 chassis as R2D2, and am convinced that I am participating in Iraqs weapons program!! I should have showed them my radioactive material..... It's part of the old smoke detector I found in the house :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Sun Dec 15 19:35:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <3DFD29BB.8080305@internet1.net> References: <1039985085.17474.72.camel@supermicro> <3DFC9223.18354.4C19D08@localhost> <3DFD29BB.8080305@internet1.net> Message-ID: <1040002609.13147.3.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> On Sun, 2002-12-15 at 20:17, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I should > have showed them my radioactive material..... It's part of the old smoke > detector I found in the house :-) > We have a weekly event at Virginia Tech called "Geeks Lunch" where people get together and discuss geeky things. Sometimes, people bring "Show and tell." I once brought a piece of Trinitite I had picked up somewhere and a geiger counter. The challenge for the rest of the group was to guess what the "mineral" was. Many of my friends and co-workers think I am more than a little odd, based on the antique computers, slide-rules, radioactive materials and sundry other curiosities I keep around. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Sun Dec 15 19:38:01 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <3DFC937D.32216.209E31@localhost> References: <3DFC50E3.7060600@aconit.org> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021215203435.0182041c@pop1.epm.net.co> At 02:36 PM 12/15/02 -0600, you wrote: > And of course Edison went to great lengths to show that the >competing AC of Tesla would electrocute everybody. (And >incidentally take profits from his DC, Edison Electric company) > >Lawrence ... "great lengths" included the public electrocution of an elephant to demonstrate the peril of AC. Which is where the idea of the electric chair took off. (apocryphal... please correct as needed). carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From foo at siconic.com Sun Dec 15 21:11:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <010c01c2a468$0eef8f10$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212151112140.19720-100000@siconic.com> On Sun, 15 Dec 2002, J.C.Wren wrote: > $3850! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2080413427 I'm very happy for Ernest, but this is totally fracking ridiculous. It's definitely a very nice example of a very early Apple ][, but $3,850 for something that was produced in such numbers is a bit obscene. (And I'm jealous it's not in my collection ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sun Dec 15 21:14:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <1039985085.17474.72.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212151114330.19730-100000@siconic.com> On 15 Dec 2002, Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote: > What does that machine do that a 'normal' Apple II doesn't? It cures impotence apparently. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sun Dec 15 21:15:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <32821.64.169.63.74.1039989255.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212151115560.19730-100000@siconic.com> On Sun, 15 Dec 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > Jeffrey asks: > > What does that machine do that a 'normal' Apple II doesn't? > <...> > > And contrary to the seller's claims, it is missing the original monitor > ROM, which was replaced by an Autostart ROM. That's a big minus in it's favor. Even at a more reasonable selling price, this would certainly not the value down a couple dozen percentage points. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sun Dec 15 21:18:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <32821.64.169.63.74.1039989255.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212151118510.19730-100000@siconic.com> On Sun, 15 Dec 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > And contrary to the seller's claims, it is missing the original monitor > ROM, which was replaced by an Autostart ROM. Wait a second, I should have checked before my first reply. The auction does indeed list the Autostart ROM and only later does he confuse the issue by saying the Autostart ROM was "added to the existing empty ROM socket". Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sun Dec 15 21:20:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <000001c2a484$f38c6d20$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212151120450.19730-100000@siconic.com> On Sun, 15 Dec 2002, Chandra Bajpai wrote: > I think it was the earliest serial # Apple II to go on sale (#2000 I > believe). The fact that it had document + in working condition was a > big plus. The Red Book is always a nice thing to have and definitely added value to this machine. The other documentation is also very nice. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sun Dec 15 21:21:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <3DFC9223.18354.4C19D08@localhost> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212151123160.19730-100000@siconic.com> On Sun, 15 Dec 2002, Scarletdown wrote: > Whoever he is, I sure hope he takes an interest in our auctions. Sales > have been so pathetic the past month or two (coupled with a rash of > super late and deadbeat bidders), that we could really use a big spender > like that guy to buy some of our stuff. It would help get the bills > paid, plus help us comply with what I decreed at the beginning of the > year as the Clutter Reduction Act of 2002. :) You shouldn't expect or feel entitled to a windfall just because one auction goes out of control like this one did. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sun Dec 15 21:23:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021215174412.17524C-100000@osfn.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212151124010.19730-100000@siconic.com> On Sun, 15 Dec 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > > Which would indicate that several thousand were produced. > > Many (most) manufacturers do not start with s/n 1, thanks to the > marketing people. Well, lore has it that the first Apple ][ had serial number 2001 (Jobs' deference to Stanley Kubrick), so the serial number on this unit is somewhat of a mystery to me. I remember when Ernest first came to me way back when he first acquired this. I was confused with the serial number. He is pretty sure from his research that the number written on the motherboard is indeed the serial number, but I still have to wonder. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Sun Dec 15 23:32:00 2002 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212151123160.19730-100000@siconic.com> References: <3DFC9223.18354.4C19D08@localhost> Message-ID: <3DFCF4FF.24408.643D741@localhost> From: Sellam Ismail <foo@siconic.com> To: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Subject: RE: 1977 Apple II for sale. Send reply to: cctalk@classiccmp.org <mailto:cctalk-request@classiccmp.org?subject=unsubscribe> <mailto:cctalk-request@classiccmp.org?subject=subscribe> Date sent: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 11:23:53 -0800 (PST) > You shouldn't expect or feel entitled to a windfall just because one > auction goes out of control like this one did. > Oh. I'm quite familiar with eBay fickleness and the way prices fluctuate worse than the stock market. I'm not really expecting enormous sums of green for any of our auctions (though it never hurts to dream). :) I am pleased that the Apple II GEOS package I have up is doing fairly well at least; almost halfway to what the BIN price was. And there is now a second bidder involved in my Commodore 2002 monitor auction. That's always a pleasant sign, since it brings in the potential (even if just a small potential) for a bidding brawl. I did have a look at what abeclassic had bid on and won over the past month; and even if he doesn't bid on any of my stuff, having those search results bookmarked helps me to get ideas for stuff from my own collections to clear out and convert to cash. :p Well, better sign off here now and get a few more things listed. Then I might play a few rounds of Parsec or even try to start learning Assembly Language on the TI, now that I have my 99/4a and Expansion Box permanently set up (sharing desk space with my Souped up Apple IIGS that I finally got around to setting up last night...) -- Scarletdown From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sun Dec 15 23:40:01 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <000001c2a484$f38c6d20$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <04d001c2a4c5$f8819670$6e7ba8c0@piii933> I've corresponded with the gentleman a little. He seems like a nice enough guy, if a bit richer than most of us. I have been able to win a few items he's been interested in but it has cost me. He is hard to outbid. Erik -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chandra Bajpai Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 1:57 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: 1977 Apple II for sale. I think it was the earliest serial # Apple II to go on sale (#2000 I believe). The fact that it had document + in working condition was a big plus. I'm not sure I would have paid $3800 though. Btw - Does anyone know who the guy at ebay user id 'abeclassic' is? I wish I had his deep pockets...he bids on a lot of things and definitely outspends everyone. Some times I wonder if it's worth bidding on if he his even thinking about the same item. http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewBidItems&u serid=abeclassic&completed=1&sort=3&all=1&rows=25 -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey H. Ingber Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 3:45 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: 1977 Apple II for sale. What does that machine do that a 'normal' Apple II doesn't? Jeff On Sun, 2002-12-15 at 15:43, Lawrence Walker wrote: > AND it was sniped. Went from $1535 to the final $3850 in the final 2 > minutes. > > Lawrence > > On 15 Dec 2002, , J.C.Wren wrote: > > > $3850! > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2080413427 > > > > --John > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Ernest Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 13:53 To: > > cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. > > > > > > I wouldn't normally post this kind of ad here but considering how > > unique > > this system is, I thought that some of you might want to know about the > > auction. It's a non-revision Apple II, serial #2000. It also has the old > > style toggle switch power supply, and the system works. > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2080413427&indexURL=1 > > #eba yphotohosting > > > > > > Ernest > > > > > > > lgwalker@mts.net > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Dec 16 00:06:01 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212151112140.19720-100000@siconic.com> References: <010c01c2a468$0eef8f10$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021215213617.00a020d0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 11:13 AM 12/15/02 -0800, you wrote: >On Sun, 15 Dec 2002, J.C.Wren wrote: > > > $3850! > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2080413427 > >I'm very happy for Ernest, but this is totally fracking ridiculous. > >It's definitely a very nice example of a very early Apple ][, but $3,850 >for something that was produced in such numbers is a bit obscene. > >(And I'm jealous it's not in my collection ;) Thing is, $4k, just isn't some impossible amount of money to spend on something you want. Personally I would have stopped bidding at $50, maybe $100, and didn't bother to bid since it was way above that the first peek I took. I don't want it that bad, and frankly still expect to find something not too far from it cheap, and I do like looking. You have to wonder though, if one of us HAD just this unit, and nothing else even close to it in terms of original etc. condition, would $3850 pry it away? The other thing I am curious about is if this is just a box of stuff this person found, or is it something pieced together to make the most attractive eBay listing? From jingber at ix.netcom.com Mon Dec 16 00:28:00 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <04d001c2a4c5$f8819670$6e7ba8c0@piii933> References: <04d001c2a4c5$f8819670$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <1040020200.15659.105.camel@supermicro> On Mon, 2002-12-16 at 00:42, Erik S. Klein wrote: > I've corresponded with the gentleman a little. He seems like a nice > enough guy, if a bit richer than most of us. He's sucked down nearly every SOL-20 on E-bay for quite awhile. There's at least 4 of them in the first three pages of his history linked to previously. I dread the thought of someone turning those four SOLs into one SOL. Jeff > > I have been able to win a few items he's been interested in but it has > cost me. He is hard to outbid. > > Erik > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Chandra Bajpai > Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 1:57 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: 1977 Apple II for sale. > > I think it was the earliest serial # Apple II to go on sale (#2000 I > believe). The fact that it had document + in working condition was a > big plus. > > I'm not sure I would have paid $3800 though. > > Btw - Does anyone know who the guy at ebay user id 'abeclassic' is? I > wish I had his deep pockets...he bids on a lot of things and definitely > outspends everyone. Some times I wonder if it's worth bidding on if he > his even thinking about the same item. > > http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewBidItems&u > serid=abeclassic&completed=1&sort=3&all=1&rows=25 > > > -Chandra > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Jeffrey H. Ingber > Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 3:45 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: 1977 Apple II for sale. > > What does that machine do that a 'normal' Apple II doesn't? > > Jeff > > > On Sun, 2002-12-15 at 15:43, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > AND it was sniped. Went from $1535 to the final $3850 in the final 2 > > minutes. > > > > Lawrence > > > > On 15 Dec 2002, , J.C.Wren wrote: > > > > > $3850! > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2080413427 > > > > > > --John > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > > Behalf Of Ernest Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 13:53 To: > > > cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. > > > > > > > > > I wouldn't normally post this kind of ad here but considering how > > > unique > > > this system is, I thought that some of you might want to know about > the > > > auction. It's a non-revision Apple II, serial #2000. It also has the > old > > > style toggle switch power supply, and the system works. > > > > > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2080413427&indexURL=1 > > > #eba yphotohosting > > > > > > > > > Ernest > > > > > > > > > > > > lgwalker@mts.net > > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com > > From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Dec 16 00:29:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. References: <010c01c2a468$0eef8f10$020010ac@k4jcw> <5.1.0.14.0.20021215213617.00a020d0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <3DFD804E.4ADD4271@ccp.com> Mike Ford wrote: > You have to wonder though, if one of us HAD just this unit, and nothing > else even close to it in terms of original etc. condition, would $3850 pry > it away? In the famous words of P. T. Barnum: "There's a sucker born every minute." I'm glad I'm not one of them. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 16 00:31:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212151120450.19730-100000@siconic.com> References: <000001c2a484$f38c6d20$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212151120450.19730-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <34049.64.169.63.74.1040020426.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > The Red Book is always a nice thing to have and definitely added value > to this machine. The other documentation is also very nice. Yeah, but my Red Book is autographed by Woz! And it's falling apart from heavy use, which increases its value to collectors. Well, to this collector, anyhow. :-) Now I need to get it autographed by Allen Baum. I saw him on Friday, but didn't have the Red Book with me. Interesting tidbit learned from Woz's recent lecture at the Computer History Museum: the original Apple logo was designed by Ron Wayne, the third founder of Apple. This was the logo showing Newton sitting under the Apple tree, with the inscription "A mind forever voyaging through strange seas of thought... alone". Wouldn't quite cut it as a company motto these days. :-) From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Dec 16 01:18:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <3DFC937D.32216.209E31@localhost> References: <3DFC50E3.7060600@aconit.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021215231916.009f1b30@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 02:36 PM 12/15/02 -0600, Lawrence Walker wrote: > And of course Edison went to great lengths to show that the >competing AC of Tesla would electrocute everybody. (And >incidentally take profits from his DC, Edison Electric company) Edison would LOVE being in our times. OTOH that doesn't mean anybody can hear what they imagine they do. From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Dec 16 03:25:01 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #317 - 38 msgs In-Reply-To: <20021211005600.4988.52383.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <l03102800ba22e69b9263@[129.162.151.33]> J.C.Wren wrote: > ...< a lot of soldering wisdom, then>... > Probably nobody has really read this far, and I can't think of anything >else at the moment, and my fingers are tired. Twice. Then saved it for good measure. Thanks! I'll start saving for a Metcal. - Mark From foo at siconic.com Mon Dec 16 05:29:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021215213617.00a020d0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212151931060.20645-100000@siconic.com> On Sun, 15 Dec 2002, Mike Ford wrote: > Thing is, $4k, just isn't some impossible amount of money to spend on > something you want. Personally I would have stopped bidding at $50, maybe > $100, and didn't bother to bid since it was way above that the first peek I > took. I don't want it that bad, and frankly still expect to find something > not too far from it cheap, and I do like looking. I'm happy with the Apple ][s I have, but none as early as this one. > You have to wonder though, if one of us HAD just this unit, and nothing > else even close to it in terms of original etc. condition, would $3850 pry > it away? Nope. > The other thing I am curious about is if this is just a box of stuff this > person found, or is it something pieced together to make the most > attractive eBay listing? It is the original system. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cbajpai at attbi.com Mon Dec 16 06:32:01 2002 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212151112140.19720-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <000201c2a4ff$5af64560$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Sellam...I'm interested in what you think this should have gone for? $1000? -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 2:14 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: 1977 Apple II for sale. On Sun, 15 Dec 2002, J.C.Wren wrote: > $3850! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2080413427 I'm very happy for Ernest, but this is totally fracking ridiculous. It's definitely a very nice example of a very early Apple ][, but $3,850 for something that was produced in such numbers is a bit obscene. (And I'm jealous it's not in my collection ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Dec 16 08:18:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <000201c2a4ff$5af64560$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212152219490.21030-100000@siconic.com> On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Chandra Bajpai wrote: > Sellam...I'm interested in what you think this should have gone for? > $1000? $500 tops. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Dec 16 08:48:00 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. Message-ID: <EFCC02DCB43BE04989267F883F7237870B445D@denmails1.jdedwards.com> There was just a piece on National Public Radio's "Morning Edition" this morning (12/16/02) about how the record industry's current audit procedure makes it almost impossible for an artist to know even such basic information as how many copies of his/her CD have been sold. The section's summary is: <quote> NPR's Rick Karr reports on the latest developments in the ongoing dispute between record companies and artists over royalty payments. Two of the five major labels say they will change the way they compute royalties, to make them more transparent and less confusing. The record companies hope the changes will convince more artists to join the fight against free downloads of music on the Internet. </quote> -----Original Message----- From: Wayne M. Smith [mailto:wmsmith@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 11:49 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Re: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. > At 09:12 PM 12/13/02 -0800, you wrote: > >Every recording contract with a participation clause has an audit provision in > >it that allows the artist to come in with their own auditor/accountant and > >have > >full access to the books. Same is true in the movie biz. So I don't really > >know what you're referring to. > > -BZZZTTTT- Wrong answer... the recording industry contracts state that > Yes, you can ahve your contract audited, but only with a list of 'approved' > auditors, as a matter of fact if you show your contract to ANYONE you are > in violation of the contract. I don't think that's right. There are restrictions that prevent hiring an auditor on a contingency fee basis, and using an auditor who is performing an audit of the same company on behalf of another artist at the same time. I have never heard of the "approved list" you mention. From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Mon Dec 16 09:27:01 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <1040020200.15659.105.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <000a01c2a517$a8882240$46f8b8ce@impac.com> He bid on lots of Sol 20s but didn't win them all. The link was to a bid history, not an "items won" history. I wouldn't have a problem with someone taking 4 non-functional Sol's and making one working one out of them, though. They bid, they win, they can do what they want with their machines. It's better to have 1 working collectable then 4 broken junkers. All I'd hope is that the remaining could be used to resurrect some other machines in time. Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey H. Ingber Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 10:30 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: 1977 Apple II for sale. On Mon, 2002-12-16 at 00:42, Erik S. Klein wrote: > I've corresponded with the gentleman a little. He seems like a nice > enough guy, if a bit richer than most of us. He's sucked down nearly every SOL-20 on E-bay for quite awhile. There's at least 4 of them in the first three pages of his history linked to previously. I dread the thought of someone turning those four SOLs into one SOL. Jeff > > I have been able to win a few items he's been interested in but it has > cost me. He is hard to outbid. > > Erik > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Chandra Bajpai > Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 1:57 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: 1977 Apple II for sale. > > I think it was the earliest serial # Apple II to go on sale (#2000 I > believe). The fact that it had document + in working condition was a > big plus. > > I'm not sure I would have paid $3800 though. > > Btw - Does anyone know who the guy at ebay user id 'abeclassic' is? I > wish I had his deep pockets...he bids on a lot of things and definitely > outspends everyone. Some times I wonder if it's worth bidding on if he > his even thinking about the same item. > > http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewBidItems&u > serid=abeclassic&completed=1&sort=3&all=1&rows=25 > > > -Chandra > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Jeffrey H. Ingber > Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 3:45 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: 1977 Apple II for sale. > > What does that machine do that a 'normal' Apple II doesn't? > > Jeff > > > On Sun, 2002-12-15 at 15:43, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > AND it was sniped. Went from $1535 to the final $3850 in the final 2 > > minutes. > > > > Lawrence > > > > On 15 Dec 2002, , J.C.Wren wrote: > > > > > $3850! > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2080413427 > > > > > > --John > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > > Behalf Of Ernest Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 13:53 To: > > > cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. > > > > > > > > > I wouldn't normally post this kind of ad here but considering how > > > unique > > > this system is, I thought that some of you might want to know about > the > > > auction. It's a non-revision Apple II, serial #2000. It also has the > old > > > style toggle switch power supply, and the system works. > > > > > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2080413427&indexURL=1 > > > #eba yphotohosting > > > > > > > > > Ernest > > > > > > > > > > > > lgwalker@mts.net > > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Dec 16 09:42:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: Vintage Intel Markings In-Reply-To: <3DFB93F9.22217.2850115@localhost> References: <00aa01c2a3ed$af0963c0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021216103025.39ff6a98@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:26 PM 12/14/02 -0800, you wrote: >I was trying to get some information on this old B1702A chip. I know >it is a 256x8 chip but someone told me that "B" marked chips are >normally gray with tin leads. I was wondering about the "B" markings. I was sorting a bunch of surplus chips a few days ago including a big pile of 2716s and I found one marked "B 2716". (The complete markings are "i B2716 023D3-V (c) INTEL '77") It has a large square window of frosted material and the window is rasied above the IC surface. All the D 2716s have smaller round clear windows that are flush with the IC surface. The B part and most of the D parts all have tinned leads and gray bodies. > >This one is white ceramic with gold leads. I tried finding something >on this but have not found this particular marking and colors. >Anyone know the skinny? > >http://www.msdsite.com/temp/1702a2.jpg >http://www.msdsite.com/temp/1702a.jpg I looked at this picture and saw the "1602" die marking. The Intel 1602 was a PROM and not an EPROM and other than being non-eraseable was completely compatible with the 1702. I suppose they used the same die but in different packaging. I'm guessing that your 1702 is an early one. I just sold a 1602 to a collector, I think it was the only one that I had ever seen. > >I have 3 variations of these. The ones above, ones that are clearly >marked C1702A (intel) and one marked C8702A (intel). I suspect even >the unmarked one is inte. I'm sure it is. I have one built exactly like it but mine is marked "i C1702A F5800" above the window and "S314" near the bottom of IC. I found this one in a box of Intel samples. It's still in it's original plastic bubble. I don't have a microscope so I don't know if the die is marked or not. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Dec 16 09:42:36 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: ABECLASSIC? was RE: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <000001c2a484$f38c6d20$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> References: <1039985085.17474.72.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021216100433.5517d960@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:57 PM 12/15/02 -0500, you wrote: >I think it was the earliest serial # Apple II to go on sale (#2000 I >believe). The fact that it had document + in working condition was a >big plus. > >I'm not sure I would have paid $3800 though. > >Btw - Does anyone know who the guy at ebay user id 'abeclassic' is? Yes, I know him but I don't feel that I should give out his name without his permission. I've had several dealings with him and he seems to be a real upright guy. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Dec 16 09:42:51 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: Vintage Intel Markings In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021214224135.038ddde0@127.0.0.1> References: <3DFB93F9.22217.2850115@localhost> <00aa01c2a3ed$af0963c0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021216103809.39ff9640@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:42 PM 12/14/02 -0600, you wrote: > > >Military packaging perhaps? > >Just a thought. > > > - Matt Nope, according to the Oct '77 MCS-80 User's Manual, military parts are marked with a first letter of "M". Thus a military D1702 would be "MD1702". I have a few military intel parts but they seem to be RARE. Joe From dtwright at uiuc.edu Mon Dec 16 09:49:00 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <007f01c2a332$3ddd49c0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212122040170.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> <005d01c2a26f$f5110c80$1843cd18@D73KSM11> <20021213174134.GA1659@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> <007f01c2a332$3ddd49c0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <20021216155106.GG3553181@uiuc.edu> Wayne M. Smith said: > > I think we agree then as I believe O'Reilly's attempted point was that > virtually all of the "samplers" are buying. That's the myth. > Yes... but the OTHER myth is that they WOULD buy if they COULDN'T sample. That is certainly untrue, as well. Each song downloaded by a "sampler" certainly does not represent a lost sale. I would be suprised if even 1% of downloaded songs represented actual lost sales for the record companies....I think that's part of the point O'Reilly was making. - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From dtwright at uiuc.edu Mon Dec 16 09:51:01 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <003501c2a32c$04e6fa90$1843cd18@D73KSM11> References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212122040170.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20021213015444.030ca520@pop-server.socal.rr.com> <003501c2a32c$04e6fa90$1843cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <20021216155342.GH3553181@uiuc.edu> Wayne M. Smith said: > > It's not just the top 40 mainstream artists, it's the tens of thousands that > they employ. To the end, there have been substantial layoffs in the music > business over the past two years. Warner/Elektra/Atlantic just laid off > another bunch. > <sarcasm>OH NO! The record industry just LAID PEOPLE OFF! There are absolutely NO OTHER companies doing that right now! It MUST be because of the EVIL MUSIC PIRATES and have NOTHING to do with the state of the economy!</sarcasm> - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From jim at jkearney.com Mon Dec 16 10:21:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: Vintage Intel Markings References: <00aa01c2a3ed$af0963c0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> <3.0.6.16.20021216103025.39ff6a98@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <01dd01c2a51f$76be56f0$1301090a@xpace.net> > I looked at this picture and saw the "1602" die marking. The Intel 1602 was a PROM and not an >EPROM and other than being non-eraseable was completely compatible with the 1702. I suppose they >used the same die but in different packaging. I'm guessing that your 1702 is an early one. I just sold a >1602 to a collector, I think it was the only one that I had ever seen. According to the MCS-8 book, "The four devices 1601, 1602, 1701 and 1702 use identical chips. The 1601 and 1701 is operable in both the static and dynamic mode while the 1602 and 1702 is operable in the static mode only. Also, the 1701 and 1702 has the unique feature of being completely eraseable and field reprogrammable. This is accomplished by a quartz lid that allows high intensity ultraviolet light to erase the 1701 and 1702." From ernestls at attbi.com Mon Dec 16 10:28:00 2002 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212151931060.20645-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <OHENIDDKMMADIAHOLNMCKEHJCOAA.ernestls@attbi.com> Based on the amount of emails that I received from all over the world, about this auction, I was a little surprised that it didn't end at a higher price. This kind of thing happens all the time. I'm not interested in Altair's, or even Apple I computers but people are willing to spend a lot of money to own them. To each his own. I'm happy for them. Sometimes, people really want something and they are willing to pay large amounts of money to get it. I know that I've been guilty of doing that and I can think of very few times when I regretted it. Apple II clones are my obsession, and there have been times when I spent way more than I could logically justify to get them but so what. It's my money. One interesting thing about this auction is the amount of "buzz" that it generated. Now, a lot of people know about this very computer, number 2000, and people have a way of turning objects into "items of importance" over time if for no other reason than because there was a "buzz" about it. If this computer is ever displayed at an event like the VCF, people will talk about it because it's "that" computer. In a way, all this hubbub may have increased it's value even further. Hehe. E. From at258 at osfn.org Mon Dec 16 10:51:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021215174412.17524C-100000@osfn.org> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021216115239.16476A-100000@osfn.org> Most of the old MG's started with the number 251. Numbers below 251 were protatotypes. Later on, numbers started at 101. On Sun, 15 Dec 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > > Which would indicate that several thousand were produced. > > Many (most) manufacturers do not start with s/n 1, thanks to the > marketing people. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Dec 16 10:55:01 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: working 11/70s available for $$$, one w/PEP-70 & hypercache In-Reply-To: <F85AF5F4-1114-11D7-BC90-000393970B96@neurotica.com> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021213143151.03d50cf8@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021216105721.01b178a8@ubanproductions.com> LOL!!! Sorry Dave, I do not mean to offend -- you must be one of the lucky few... --tom At 11:39 AM 12/16/2002 -0500, Dave McGuire wrote: >On Friday, December 13, 2002, at 03:38 PM, Tom Uban wrote: >>I just scored a PEP-70/Hypercache pair from a guy on eBay and in my >>conversations >>with him, I've learned that he has a couple of working 11/70s, one with >>conventional >>MOS memory and the other with a PEP-70/Hypercache pair. He is a dealer >>and I have >>no association with him other than my eBay purchase. He seems like a nice >>enough >>fellow and these things are not getting any easier to find. So, for those >>who are inclined >>to spend money on their hobby computers instead of on PCs, here is the info. > > I find this insinuation offensive. I never spend so much as a dime on > PCs. ;) > > -Dave > >-- >Dave McGuire "I'll send you adapters to go both ways." >St. Petersburg, FL -Bill Bradford > >---------- >To unsubscribe (or subscribe) from (to) this list, send a message to >info-pdp11-request@village.org, with the first line of the message >body being "unsubscribe" or "subscribe", respectively (without the quotes). From at258 at osfn.org Mon Dec 16 10:55:27 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <1040002609.13147.3.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021216115635.16476B-100000@osfn.org> I get great solace from telling people about my leech tank, and how tiresome feeding time can be. On 15 Dec 2002, Christopher McNabb wrote: > On Sun, 2002-12-15 at 20:17, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > I should > > have showed them my radioactive material..... It's part of the old smoke > > detector I found in the house :-) > > > > We have a weekly event at Virginia Tech called "Geeks Lunch" where > people get together and discuss geeky things. Sometimes, people bring > "Show and tell." I once brought a piece of Trinitite I had picked up > somewhere and a geiger counter. The challenge for the rest of the group > was to guess what the "mineral" was. > > Many of my friends and co-workers think I am more than a little odd, > based on the antique computers, slide-rules, radioactive materials and > sundry other curiosities I keep around. > > -- > Christopher L McNabb > Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net > Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N > GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Dec 16 11:02:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021216115239.16476A-100000@osfn.org> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021216120100.16748A-100000@osfn.org> > Most of the old MG's started with the number 251. Numbers below 251 were > protatotypes. Later on, numbers started at 101. Army electronics from before 1945 often repreated serial numbers. To really confuse the issue, some old radio manufacturers (Scott, I think) used random serial numbers. Each time a new radio came off the line, a guy would look in a big book, find a num,ber that was not used, stamp the plate, then cross out the number. So don't trust serial numbers. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Dec 16 11:41:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. In-Reply-To: <EFCC02DCB43BE04989267F883F7237870B445D@denmails1.jdedwards.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212160142260.22374-100000@siconic.com> On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Feldman, Robert wrote: > <quote> NPR's Rick Karr reports on the latest developments in the ongoing > dispute between record companies and artists over royalty payments. Two of > the five major labels say they will change the way they compute royalties, > to make them more transparent and less confusing. The record companies hope > the changes will convince more artists to join the fight against free > downloads of music on the Internet. </quote> So in other words, artists are feeling screwed and this is why they are loathe to denounce file sharing? My guess is that after they see what they are really losing, they will be more inclined to support file sharing. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From computermuseum at pandora.be Mon Dec 16 12:00:00 2002 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: Commodore 610 for sale In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021216120100.16748A-100000@osfn.org> Message-ID: <NEBBIIKKPJIBINKJOILLIENKCHAA.computermuseum@pandora.be> Hi, I'm about new to this group. I've got something here for sale... or fro trade. It's a Commodore 610 in it's original packing and never used! All cables are in there original bags. The only thing I miss are the inserts of the box. The Commodore 610 is in top condition.... Michel Wouters Belgium - Europe From fernande at internet1.net Mon Dec 16 12:00:23 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. References: <OHENIDDKMMADIAHOLNMCKEHJCOAA.ernestls@attbi.com> Message-ID: <3DFE1510.5010500@internet1.net> Ernest wrote: > Based on the amount of emails that I received from all over the world, about > this auction, I was a little surprised that it didn't end at a higher price. > This kind of thing happens all the time. I'm not interested in Altair's, or > even Apple I computers but people are willing to spend a lot of money to own > them. To each his own. I'm happy for them. Sometimes, people really want > something and they are willing to pay large amounts of money to get it. I > know that I've been guilty of doing that and I can think of very few times > when I regretted it. Apple II clones are my obsession, and there have been > times when I spent way more than I could logically justify to get them but > so what. It's my money. I think I agree with what your saying. If a person really wants a certain Apple // in a certain condition with certain manuals, peripherals, etc, then only that person can determine how much it's worth to him. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Mon Dec 16 12:02:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. References: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021216115635.16476B-100000@osfn.org> Message-ID: <3DFE1562.3070002@internet1.net> Merle K. Peirce wrote: > I get great solace from telling people about my leech tank, and how > tiresome feeding time can be. yuck, I hope your not serious!! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From cb at mythtech.net Mon Dec 16 12:21:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: System/23 Support Disks Message-ID: <S.0000097477@mythtech.net> Does anyone have a set of the IBM System/23 support disks that came with a System/23? I have a manual here (Volume 1, Learning to use System/23), and it makes reference to disks that came with the manual. The disks are: Customer Support Functions (VOL002) Learning Diskette (VOL003) There may be other disks that go with later manuals (there are 7 manuals total, and I know one of them deals with BASIC, so I would guess there are disks to go with that as well... I would check but I can't get to the other manuals right now). If anyone has these, would they be willing to make me copies if I supplied the blank 8" disks, postage, and a few bucks for the effort? The copies that go with my manuals appear to be MIA (I suspect they were used as blank disks many years ago). TIA -chris <http://www.mythtech.net> From at258 at osfn.org Mon Dec 16 12:30:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <3DFE1562.3070002@internet1.net> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021216133103.22289A@osfn.org> No, I like to grow aquatic plants and a couple of leeches came in on one. The whole leech tank story is much better though, and the reactions of disgust are priceless. On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > I get great solace from telling people about my leech tank, and how > > tiresome feeding time can be. > > yuck, I hope your not serious!! > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Dec 16 12:32:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: AMD2901CDC chip available In-Reply-To: <3DFE1562.3070002@internet1.net> Message-ID: <016b01c2a531$b10572a0$020010ac@k4jcw> I was in the local purveyor of old chips establishment today, and noticed a drawer of about 20 AMD2901CDC bit slicers. I don't know how common they are right now, but it *seems* that I remember a thread of someone looking for some. The price on the drawer said $5/ea. That may be high, may be low, I don't know. I try not to express an interest in items until I'm ready to buy, so as not to drive the price up. Anyway, if anyone is interested, they're at Austin Electronics, in Atlanta. http://austinelex.com -- 800-229-2878 If these things are common as dirt, sorry. Didn't know. --John From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Dec 16 12:58:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021216115635.16476B-100000@osfn.org> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212161057050.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > I get great solace from telling people about my leech tank, and how > tiresome feeding time can be. Hey... I knew you had old computer systems at RICM, but I didn't realize you also had old meteorological instruments like a Tempest Prognosticator. -brian. From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Dec 16 13:26:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212151114330.19730-100000@siconic.com> References: <1039985085.17474.72.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <3DFDD5E7.27428.F7AC58@localhost> $3850 WOULD buy a lot of Viagra. Lawrence On 15 Dec 2002, , Sellam Ismail wrote: > On 15 Dec 2002, Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote: > > > What does that machine do that a 'normal' Apple II doesn't? > > It cures impotence apparently. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Dec 16 13:33:00 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <3DFDD5E7.27428.F7AC58@localhost> References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212151114330.19730-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <3DFE398B.6822.AB96A5BD@localhost> > > > What does that machine do that a 'normal' Apple II doesn't? > > It cures impotence apparently. > $3850 WOULD buy a lot of Viagra. I've been told it's more of a mental thing. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Dec 16 13:34:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:37 2005 Subject: Vintage Intel Markings Message-ID: <200212161933.LAA02887@clulw009.amd.com> >From: Joe <rigdonj@cfl.rr.com> > >At 08:26 PM 12/14/02 -0800, you wrote: >>I was trying to get some information on this old B1702A chip. I know >>it is a 256x8 chip but someone told me that "B" marked chips are >>normally gray with tin leads. > > I was wondering about the "B" markings. I was sorting a bunch of surplus chips a few days ago including a big pile of 2716s and I found one marked "B 2716". (The complete markings are "i B2716 023D3-V (c) INTEL '77") It has a large square window of frosted material and the window is rasied above the IC surface. All the D 2716s have smaller round clear windows that are flush with the IC surface. The B part and most of the D parts all have tinned leads and gray bodies. > >> >>This one is white ceramic with gold leads. I tried finding something >>on this but have not found this particular marking and colors. >>Anyone know the skinny? >> >>http://www.msdsite.com/temp/1702a2.jpg > > >>http://www.msdsite.com/temp/1702a.jpg > > I looked at this picture and saw the "1602" die marking. The Intel 1602 was a PROM and not an EPROM and other than being non-eraseable was completely compatible with the 1702. I suppose they used the same die but in different packaging. I'm guessing that your 1702 is an early one. I just sold a 1602 to a collector, I think it was the only one that I had ever seen. > Hi I have either a 1702 or may it is a 1701, non-A, someplace. There were not many of these made. Most all of the early 1702's were put into the gold lead with the clear quartz windows, glued on. It wasn't until later that they started to use the frosted glass and then later still when they used the monolithic ceramic/quarts that had the clear( but distorted ) window. Dwight From foo at siconic.com Mon Dec 16 15:30:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <3DFE398B.6822.AB96A5BD@localhost> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212160531400.22996-100000@siconic.com> On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Hans Franke wrote: > > > > What does that machine do that a 'normal' Apple II doesn't? > > > > It cures impotence apparently. > > > $3850 WOULD buy a lot of Viagra. > > I've been told it's more of a mental thing. Millions of men walking around with uncontrolled hard-ons can't be wrong. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Mon Dec 16 15:36:01 2002 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: Little score, & possible VAX 630 rescue... Message-ID: <3DFE4834.B1F3CFC8@comcast.net> On the way home today, I decided to stop at the local Goodwill, in my (never-ending?) search for Mac ADB keyboard cables. Well, I picked up a working Mac SE/30 w/ keyboard for $5.00, and a 18" x 30" Guiness chalkboard for $12.00. No keyboard cable with the Mac, though... Sigh... The search continues... A local used computer shop did net me a Mac keyboard and cable, for $10. Now, on to the Vax. I have a lead on a forgotten DEC Industrial Vax 630. I don't know what in it or anything yet. It's just the (about) 30" x 19" x 10" rackmount unit. Apparently, about 10 -12 years ago, DEC had a contract with a Southern CT company, that makes industrial keyboards and mice. DEC shipped them the Vax, to test the devices, all of them. They never asked for the machine back. The moniter that went with it has since died. That may still be around, but I don't know. As far as they know, the Vax still works. Well, at least last time the powered it up. I'm waiting to see what the company wants to do with it, but if I tell them someone wants to buy it, that may help. It's a heavy little beast, so shipping may be a bit much. They'll probably prefer that you pick it up, but I'm sure something can be worked out if necessary. Contact me off-list. -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Dec 16 15:48:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212160531400.22996-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <017701c2a54d$1816fde0$020010ac@k4jcw> Uncontrolled? What, does yours get up and wander off on it's own sometimes or something? --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 08:32 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: 1977 Apple II for sale. On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Hans Franke wrote: > > > > What does that machine do that a 'normal' Apple II doesn't? > > > > It cures impotence apparently. > > > $3850 WOULD buy a lot of Viagra. > > I've been told it's more of a mental thing. Millions of men walking around with uncontrolled hard-ons can't be wrong. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Dec 16 15:51:01 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: 20mA cable details Message-ID: <10212162152.ZM7574@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> The time has come to hook my ASR33 to the PDP-8/E. The -8/E has an M8650 (KL8E) which I've been using with RS232. However, I have 40-way Berg connectors, and the proper AMP flat 8-way Mate-N-Lok connector shells for the 20mA loop, and the male and female pins, and I know which signals go on which pins. What I don't know is which end should be male and which female, nor how many cables there should be in the chain, because the cables were cut by the previous owner of the TTY, which has never seen a PDP-8 in its life before :-( There's a grey 6-core connected to the ASR33, and I *think* the male connector (the one with the flat tongue and 6 male pins) goes on this cable. Therefore the connector with the grooves, which the tongue slides into, and the female "pins", does on the cable from to the PDP-8/E's Berg connector. Yes? Next question is, roughly how long would the original 20mA cable on the TTY have been? My memory, reaching back two or more decades, says the cable on the KL8E should be about a couple of feet, and the rest is all one piece, attached to the TTY. Or would there be a third in between? I have enough connectors to do it either way. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Dec 16 16:08:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: 20mA cable details In-Reply-To: pete@mindy "20mA cable details" (Dec 16, 21:52) References: <10212162152.ZM7574@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <10212162210.ZM7713@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 16, 21:52, pete wrote: > and the female "pins", does on the cable from to the PDP-8/E's Berg ^^^^ "goes" ^^ no, "from" was sufficient See, I'm getting so excited about finally connecting all this together, I can't even manage basic spelling and grammar ;-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Dec 16 17:47:01 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: free network hub (UK) Message-ID: <10212162333.ZM7808@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Surplus to requirements: SynOptics Lattishub 2813. This is a managed 10baseT hub, with 16 x 10baseT ports, modem port (for remote management), RS232 port (local management), and an AUI port. Cosmetically good, in perfect working order, and I even have the manual, but I've replaced it with some fancy black ATM/100baseTX kit. Free to collect from York, or pay carriage (not too expensive; it weighs about 3.5kg). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From bqt at update.uu.se Mon Dec 16 18:49:02 2002 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: Rl drives In-Reply-To: <20021212160823.20963.19212.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0212170118450.15554-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE> > > > I am _darn_ sure the seek function on an RK11 doesn't check sector > > > headers (I would have to actually dig out the prints to be sure). I know > > > I've used it to move heads around on the alignment pack, which doesn't > > > have convnetionally recorded headers. Quite apart from the fact that an > > > RK05/RK11 can seek on a blank disk so as to be able to format it (a blank > > > RK05 pack really is blank). > > > > We must have been talking past each other here. I didn't mean that the > > controller/drive made a check on the disk that it was on the right > > track. The drive *knows* it's on the right track, without checking. Like > > Sorry, no it doesn't... You're right. Too long since I worked on this, I apologize. Unless you specify a read-all or write-all, the RK05 does check at read or write. I should have kept my mouth shut. :-) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Dec 16 18:49:46 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <3DFE398B.6822.AB96A5BD@localhost> References: <3DFDD5E7.27428.F7AC58@localhost> Message-ID: <3DFE20B6.18805.21BECB6@localhost> Only if your around 40 and have had a breakdown of a longterm relationship. Lawrence On 16 Dec 2002, , Hans Franke wrote: > > > > What does that machine do that a 'normal' Apple II doesn't? > > > > It cures impotence apparently. > > > $3850 WOULD buy a lot of Viagra. > > I've been told it's more of a mental thing. > > Gruss > H. > > -- > VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Dec 16 18:50:03 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <017701c2a54d$1816fde0$020010ac@k4jcw> References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212160531400.22996-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <3DFE20B6.10137.21BECE8@localhost> Kind of like when you're 16 years old, on a bus, and it happens for no particular reason just before your stop. You exit bent over like a hunchback. At 66 I would relish that embarrassment once more. Not that any need for performance on my part calls for the drug. :^) It's more a thing that you exhaust your energy before you're thru. "Let's rest a bit and then do it some more" Lawrence Uh-oh I may have lost any potential partners who might have read this. Luckily most nerds are guys, so it's unlikely. On 16 Dec 2002, , J.C.Wren wrote: > Uncontrolled? What, does yours get up and wander off on it's own > sometimes or something? > > --John > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Sellam Ismail Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 08:32 To: > cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: 1977 Apple II for sale. > > > On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Hans Franke wrote: > > > > > > What does that machine do that a 'normal' Apple II doesn't? > > > > > > It cures impotence apparently. > > > > > $3850 WOULD buy a lot of Viagra. > > > > I've been told it's more of a mental thing. > > Millions of men walking around with uncontrolled hard-ons can't be > wrong. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com > * > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Dec 16 18:50:20 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021216115635.16476B-100000@osfn.org> References: <1040002609.13147.3.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <3DFE20B5.2992.21BEC57@localhost> No big thing. Just stick your arm in and the little critters are quite satisfied after 10 minutes or so. You just have to eat lots of liver or other blood-building nutrients. Lawrence On 16 Dec 2002, , Merle K. Peirce wrote: > I get great solace from telling people about my leech tank, and how > tiresome feeding time can be. > > On 15 Dec 2002, Christopher McNabb wrote: > > > On Sun, 2002-12-15 at 20:17, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > > > I should > > > have showed them my radioactive material..... It's part of the old > > > smoke detector I found in the house :-) > > > > > > > We have a weekly event at Virginia Tech called "Geeks Lunch" where > > people get together and discuss geeky things. Sometimes, people bring > > "Show and tell." I once brought a piece of Trinitite I had picked up > > somewhere and a geiger counter. The challenge for the rest of the > > group was to guess what the "mineral" was. > > > > Many of my friends and co-workers think I am more than a little odd, > > based on the antique computers, slide-rules, radioactive materials and > > sundry other curiosities I keep around. > > > > -- > > Christopher L McNabb > > Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net > > Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N > > GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD > > > > M. K. Peirce > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Dec 16 18:55:00 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: My first good find!!! In-Reply-To: <007901c29c97$051d5b80$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEMEELCFAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> 2114 RAM compatibles can be had from www.bgmicro.com; I got a stack of them not so long back to repair my PET 2001 and others..... w > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Philip Pemberton > Sent: 05 December 2002 19:47 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: My first good find!!! > > > Peter Turnbull wrote: > > I have a spare D780C with a 1983 date code. Mail me off-list if you > > want it. > That would be great - how much would postage be? > I don't suppose you've got any spare 2114 RAMs as well, have you? I think > the RAMs in my Ace may have died when I slipped with the PSU cable (oops). > > > I think the original may have been socketed. It was common to socket > > thingss like MPUs, ROMs, etc, in those days, but the 1984 date code > > sounds late -- I think the Ace came out in 1982. > I was speaking from memory there - I've just had another look at > the CPU and > it's got a 1982 date code, the Ace PCB is dated 1983 (if that's a date and > not a serial number). > > Thanks. > -- > Phil. > philpem@dsl.pipex.com > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Dec 16 18:55:21 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: Micro Professor goodies In-Reply-To: <3DEF8D2C.2020601@aconit.org> Message-ID: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEIEELCFAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> I'd be surprised if they've got any of those left - they told me I'd got one of the last ones and I bought mine months ago..... cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Hans B Pufal > Sent: 05 December 2002 17:30 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Micro Professor goodies > > > Browsing around today I came across the following > > EPROM & FORTH. Module for the Micro-Professor containing an Eprom and > full manual. Specification:- FORTH-79, EPROM (8KB). Including line > editor, ramdisk feature has up to 40k user RAM capbility. 4.99 > > ZILOG Z80 CHIPS. I/O memory expansion module for the Micro-Professor > (see Q0831) Spec:- IOM-MPF-IP, Contains Z80-CTC (counter and timer > chips) and Z80-PIO (parallel I/O chip) 2k eprom. 2k RAM. Uses parallel > I/O control. Supplied with manual and ribbon cable. 9.99 > > AT Greenweld Electronics in the UK, web http://www.greenweld.co.uk > > -- hbp > > From kees.stravers at iae.nl Mon Dec 16 18:55:38 2002 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (Kees Stravers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: Need information on TRSDOS 1.3 internals Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20021208220715.0136cb94@pop.iae.nl> At 12:12 7-12-2002 -0800, you wrote: >On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Kees Stravers wrote: > >> Wouldn't it be easier to install a trs-80 emulator, mount the readdisk >> image in it, and print the files to a virtual printer port that you >> capture to a pc file? > >No, because then I'd have to type it all back in (or OCR it). It would be >much easier to transmit digital bits from one place to another. I'm sorry, but if you redirect the printer port to a file, with something like the dos vprint tsr, no typing would be needed because the print job would be on the disk already. Kees. From sugandhi at optonline.net Mon Dec 16 18:55:54 2002 From: sugandhi at optonline.net (Sugandhi Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: YARC Systems transputer board Message-ID: <005101c29e5a$e70b06e0$b941bd18@zeus> I have already responded to Bernd, but thought I should pass the info here. I have the whitepaper for this particular board, but nothing else. According to the paper, it is B004 compatible (most if not all PC boards are), so the software on the website *should* work. Here is the link to the whitepaper: http://www.classiccmp.org/transputer/documentation/yarc/yarc.doc Cheers, Ram PS: As a side note, what is a good way to scan documents in such a way as that the resulting PDF document can resize as large as possible without loosing image quality. Word documents can resize as large as possible without image loss. I hate putting word docs on the website.... -----Original Message----- From: Thilo Schmidt To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Sent: 12/5/02 6:31 PM Subject: Re: YARC Systems transputer board Hi Bernd, On 05-Dec-2002 Bernd Kopriva wrote: > Today i've added a YARC Systems transputer board to my little IBM-AT > coprocessor card collection :-) Ah, I saw this board on Ebay... :-) > Unfortunately, there was no documentation and software included ... > ... and YARC Systems seems to be out of business for at least 2 years ... This is a common problem with transputer based hardware... > Does anyone have documentation/software for that little beauty ? No, but most PC-Transputer-Boards where compatible to the Inmos B004 interface. On Ram's Transputer Homepage you should find a lot of software for this interface (http://www.classiccmp.org/transputer) I'm writing a Linux based development environment for transputers. Currently only the B004 driver and the assembler are operational. If you find any useful information regarding the interface of your board I would be very interested... bye Thilo From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 16 18:56:09 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: Solaris 2.4 In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20021205072857.00d88218@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <5B31B682-0A5E-11D7-8485-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Thursday, December 5, 2002, at 07:28 AM, Carlos Murillo wrote: > Ok, so I got all my numbers messed up. But I did remember that Sun > had played a retroactive trick on version numbers. I also remember > the Great Recompile/ReBuy that we had to go through when we > went from SunOS(BSD) to Solaris (SYSV). And all of the hard drives > suddenly became insufficient... ...and the CPUs, until at least 2.6 or so. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "Why would a brothel need St. Petersburg, FL a streaming media server?" -Kevin From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 16 18:56:29 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: Driving a 7805 or how else to get +5VDC reg (was Re: My first good find!!!) In-Reply-To: <20021206204443.13459.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <669EFEEE-0A68-11D7-8485-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Friday, December 6, 2002, at 03:44 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote: > So I was thinking about this recently... I have this 6V battery > pack that is intended to clamp to the back of a ZIP drive, allowing > it to be used away from power, say with a laptop. I've wanted > to use it for a portable source of juice for hobby projects (it > has, among other features, a built-in 110V mains plug and recharger, > making it handy to recharge), but I haven't expected to be able to > feed a 7805 at +6VDC and get +5VDC out the other side reliably. > > How can I take +6VDC of battery power and get +5VDC regulated power > from it? If it matters, the currents involved will be under 1000mA, > but probably over 200mA. You could use a low-dropout linear regulator like the LM2940. These are readily available and easy to use, but not quite as cheap as the 7805. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "Why would a brothel need St. Petersburg, FL a streaming media server?" -Kevin From s.d.birchall at pgr.salford.ac.uk Mon Dec 16 18:56:47 2002 From: s.d.birchall at pgr.salford.ac.uk (stu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: Can you fix a C-64, or know someone who can? References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212071252290.24274-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <05e101c29ed4$6035a920$c800000a@stusxpbox> > Commodore 64 Repair Made Easy > > 1. Pick up broken C64 > 2. Walk to your parts bin > 3. Place C64 in parts bin > 4. Go to local thrift store or log on to eBay > 5. Search for C64 > 6. Buy it > 7. You have now "fixed" your Commodore 64. Pat yourself on the back for a > job well done. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival Yeah, Commodore did sell 22 million of the things, making it the most popular model of computer ever made :) Stu From kevin at ps8.co.uk Mon Dec 16 18:57:05 2002 From: kevin at ps8.co.uk (Kevin Murrell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: VAX wanted in Bristol, UK In-Reply-To: <33740.64.169.63.74.1039423300.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <000001c29f61$38d17390$8000a8c0@ps8xp> An RA80 drive is spec'd to operate up to 8000ft. Some 2200 feet below Leadville! Kevin -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Eric Smith Sent: 09 December 2002 08:42 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: VAX wanted in Bristol, UK > The only interpretations I could guess is that it's either some sort of > Tesla reference, or that maybe Leadville is out in the middle of nowhere > without adequate electricity. No, the electricity is fine there. However, it is not possible to operate most VAX systems there within the rated specifications of all of the subsystems. If no one figures it out in a few days, I'll explain. From c.morris at townsqr.com Mon Dec 16 18:57:23 2002 From: c.morris at townsqr.com (Dr. Charles E. Morris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: ADM-3A lower case Message-ID: <000f01c29f99$3f13a560$0801a8c0@DrOccMed> I' ve been intermittently looking (for many years) for a lowercase 2513 for my ADM-3A. I was really happy to see your post and find that others are interested in restoring this '70's nostalgia piece! I remember in 1977 how impressed I was with the blazing 1200 baud modem speeds, since the hardcopy Decwriters at the Univ. of Maryland were 300 baud. (Also I have a working rackmount PDP-8/I, with a "University Computing Company" front panel). I wore out my keyboard this weekend searching online for a 2513. Pure unobtanium. GI made them (I believe the p/n was 2513CGR-002 for the lowercase? -001 is in the socket so obviously the uppercase). Just as well I didn't find one, I never knew the address lines were flipped.... or am I misunderstanding and it is the direct plugin? thanks Charles From ccraft at netgenius.org Mon Dec 16 18:57:50 2002 From: ccraft at netgenius.org (Chris Craft) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: VAX wanted in Bristol, UK In-Reply-To: <33740.64.169.63.74.1039423300.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <200212090221.gB92LqA1009954@narnia.int.dittman.net> <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212081851050.4296-100000@haiku.jarai.net> <33740.64.169.63.74.1039423300.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <20021210042927.B669F6119B@mamacass.springsips.com> On Monday 09 December 2002 01:41, Eric Smith wrote: > > The only interpretations I could guess is that it's either some sort of > > Tesla reference, or that maybe Leadville is out in the middle of nowhere > > without adequate electricity. > > No, the electricity is fine there. However, it is not possible to > operate most VAX systems there within the rated specifications of all > of the subsystems. > > If no one figures it out in a few days, I'll explain. I know. :) ...but I must admit an unfair advantage, living in Craig, Colorado, USA. Regards, Chris Craft, RetroComputing Nut From ccraft at netgenius.org Mon Dec 16 18:58:08 2002 From: ccraft at netgenius.org (Chris Craft) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: VAX wanted in Bristol, UK In-Reply-To: <2341.4.20.168.187.1039465689.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <200212090221.gB92LqA1009954@narnia.int.dittman.net> <3DF45960.8F0D901F@naffnet.org.uk> <2341.4.20.168.187.1039465689.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <20021210045137.721CB611B1@mamacass.springsips.com> On Monday 09 December 2002 13:28, Eric Smith wrote: > I wrote (about Leadville, Colorado): > > it is not possible to operate most VAX systems there within the rated > > specifications of all of the subsystems. > > Dave Woodman wrote: > > Altitude? > > Bingo! > > Disk drives are almost always rated for operation to a maximum altitude > of 10K feet above sea level. Argh... didn't get the first right answer. The pains of ~20hrs delay in reading my personal email lists. -Chris. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 16 18:58:26 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 for sale Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212100102330.32194-100000@siconic.com> I am passing this message along to anyone (presumably in the UK) who is interested in an IBM 5150. Please reply to the original sender. Reply-to: <slipperysli@hotmail.com> or <mail@slibob.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 12:29:10 +0000 From: Simon Taylor <slipperysli@hotmail.com> Reply-To: mail@slibob.com Subject: IBM 5150 Hi I have a 1981 IBM 5150, complete with monitor and tracotr-feed dot-matrix printer which I am hoping to sell. Are you interested? If you aren't please could you put me in touch with anyone who might be interested? Please let me know if you can or can't help me. Thanks very much Simon Taylor http://www.slibob.co.uk/ Tel: 07021 118445 Txt: 07951 704272 -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 16 18:58:45 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: Looking for certain software packaging ($$$) Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212100145300.1077-100000@siconic.com> I am searching out any retail software packaging that conforms to the following description: The front cover of the packaging has a flap that opens up (like a book) to reveal a manual or pamphlet inside. The flap must be part of the box itself, and not part of a sleeve that slips over the box. I have Delrina WinFax Pro 3.0 which almost fits this description but the flap is part of a sleeve that fits over the main box. Any software in question must have been published or put on the market prior to March of 1996. One possible example may be Delrina WinFax Pro 4.0 (which is what I was originally searching for a couple months back). If you have any software packaging that fits this description, please contact me directly at <sellam@vintage.org>. There is a bounty for this! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 16 18:59:03 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: Old macs available in New Jersey Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212100458400.1605-100000@siconic.com> There are some old Macs free for the taking in South Orange, New Jersey: (3) Macintosh LC (1) Macintosh IIci (1) Macintosh IIcx (1) Macintosh IIsi (1) Macintosh 8100/180 (needs P/S) Please contact Nilton at 973/275.1700 or <info@funmaps.com> if interested. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vance at neurotica.com Mon Dec 16 18:59:20 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? In-Reply-To: <200211301657.IAA02788@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212102347230.15329-100000@mail.neurotica.com> It was indeed. I was having a blast with it more than 10 years ago. Peace... Sridhar On Sat, 30 Nov 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > My save strategy encompasses all electronic equipment that I see, but it > > > goes like this: Did a well regarded company make it, Is there no damage, > > > Will/Does it work, Does it have an OS/software, Docs, Yes>How much does > > > it cost?, Weigh, Is it very hard to find elsewhere. And, ultimately > > > 'what will I have to throw out to keep it?' > > > > I just wish the internet was around 10 years ago. > > Fortunately, it was. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- "I am Pentium of Borg. Division is futile. You will be approximated." ------ > From vance at neurotica.com Mon Dec 16 18:59:38 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: Very Old Game Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212102349140.15329-100000@mail.neurotica.com> Does anyone have a copy of Executive Suite for PC's? It's the game where you are working your way up a corporate heirarchy through answering trivia questions. Peace... Sridhar From bh_brian at zill.net Mon Dec 16 18:59:54 2002 From: bh_brian at zill.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: The effects of employment In-Reply-To: <200212102154.gBALs7t01498@shell1.aracnet.com>; from healyzh@aracnet.com on Tue, Dec 10, 2002 at 01:54:06PM -0800 References: <no.id> <200212102154.gBALs7t01498@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20021211010340.A12936@zill.net> On Tue, Dec 10, 2002 at 01:54:06PM -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > * I will no longer gripe about lack of funds in nearly every post. :-) > > > > Yes, now you will move to the group that gripes about lack of spare > > time. :-) > > Allow me to welcome you to that group :^) dammit, how did i manage to get myself into both those groups at once? it's just plain not fair. *mope, mope* on a Recovery (ASR style) note, i filled out an application for part time work at the deli in a local supermarket. boy did i feel silly when i had to list the last three jobs and their salaries. i really hope they call me back. ;) -brian (yes, things have gotten that bad around philly) From root at parse.com Mon Dec 16 19:00:14 2002 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: Old TI analog sound chip; info? Message-ID: <200212111826.NAA20010@parse.com> I tried a google search, but alas... :-) I'm looking for the documentation for the olde TI analog sound chip; this dates back to the late 70's early 80's if my memory serves me correctly. I don't even remember the part number. AFAIK, it had some kind of "I2L" (I squared el) technology or somesuch, and it was mostly analog, with some digital control (but nothing like a DSP or midi). Anyone recall this chip? Anyone have the datasheet for it online or willing to scan it in? Background: I remember playing with it a *long* time ago, and wanted to model it in software :-) Cheers, and thanks in advance, -RK -- Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Dec 16 19:00:32 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: VAX wanted in Bristol, UK In-Reply-To: <3DF3BC3A.7060801@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEKEHGCFAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of John Honniball > Sent: 08 December 2002 21:40 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: VAX wanted in Bristol, UK > > Just heard from a friend that he's interested in a VAX, and he's > based near here in north Bristol. Anybody know of a suitable > machine? I know where there's a VAXstation 3100 M48 but it may need parts, and I've got a couple of spare untested MicroVAX 2000s..... Any good? cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Dec 16 19:00:50 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: Nice Find today and some good books In-Reply-To: <01c901c29ff7$a2482210$e850ef42@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEOEHGCFAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Keys > Sent: 10 December 2002 02:56 > To: cctalk@classiccmp > Subject: Nice Find today and some good books > > > Found a Micro Genius IQ-501 Computer Game console and one > controller/joystick for it at a thrift. It's a NES/Famicom Pirate Clone. > You can see it a this site page down to the bottom: > http://www.gamersgraveyard.com/repository/nes/pirate/pirate-clones > -A-M.html Hells, mine's in far better condition than that one and look how much I paid for it! http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Clones/microgenius.jpg Pity it doesn't work :( -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Dec 16 19:01:10 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: The ACE is recovering :-) In-Reply-To: <015f01c29eee$4daa32c0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEECEHHCFAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Philip Pemberton > Sent: 08 December 2002 19:16 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: The ACE is recovering :-) > > I've only got one more thing to say - it's a damn shame Jupiter/Cantab > aren't in business anymore (can you say "excess stock"?) > They only lasted 3-4 years tops. Boldfield Computing Ltd also couldn't sell the remaining stocks so who knows what happened to 'em? If they didn't become landfill they might be propping up someone's shed roof somewhere out in the sticks :) Here's to hoping eh. -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Dec 16 19:01:31 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: One more screwup with the Ace... In-Reply-To: <10212102124.ZM9276@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEKEHHCFAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of pete@dunnington.u-net.com > Sent: 10 December 2002 21:24 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: One more screwup with the Ace... > > On things like that, I often don't even try to rescue any suspect ICs or > even passives, just cut them off close to the PCB with a very fine pair of > sidecutters, and then desolder the stub of pin. On Tony's advice that's what I do too. > First thing is to make sure anything you remove is replaced with a good > quality socket, and if necessary that you can repair any damaged tracks > with stripped wirewrap wire or similar. How adept are you with a > soldering iron? I used to do this sort of thing for a living, and I'm not > too far away if you want someone to take a look at it. You're not too far from me either, assuming you live near York. My last repair ended in a stalemate - everything checks out with regard to schematics, even the 2 tracks I managed to break, but I still have a dead MTX512..... Having said that I haven't checked the ICs for the correct voltage yet; I know the PSU is OK 'cos it powers my working MTX OK. Once I've finished re-laying the floor in the dining room I'm going to have another go at it so watch this space :) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Dec 16 19:01:49 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: A project for Tony... In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212092230530.7807-100000@haiku.jarai.net> Message-ID: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEOEHHCFAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Brian Chase > Sent: 10 December 2002 06:35 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: A project for Tony... > > > Here's a special project for you, Tony: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2079939801 > > What's mind boggling is that the seller powered the system on in this > state. I'm sure that if any of the Qbus modules were salvagable, it's > safe to say a smaller number of them are now. "Something heavy was on top of it?" The mind boggles! -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From aek at spies.com Mon Dec 16 19:02:14 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: Acquired a PDP11/44, but missing M7095 Message-ID: <200212112212.gBBMC00j032566@spies.com> > On the plus side a CMD CDU-720/TM SCSI controller was installed do you have any way to read the eprom from this? I have four of these boards, and they are all missing the eprom :< From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Dec 16 19:02:33 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: The Secret Weapons of Commodore 11th edition In-Reply-To: <200212072344.PAA28510@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEKEHJCFAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Cameron Kaiser > Sent: 07 December 2002 23:44 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: The Secret Weapons of Commodore 11th edition > > > After far too long, the long-overdue 11th edition of the Secret Weapons of > Commodore, cataloguing rare, unusual and unreleased Commodore > hardware, has > been released. > > better C65 mainboard/ports/portrait photographs (thanks Moise), > higher resolution pictures of the CHESSmate, Bah - you could've had those off me months ago if I'd known you were after them, but then again I unsubbed from this list because of too much noise so hey ho :) Other Chessmate pix are on my museum site. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From techservices at nwnetwork.net Mon Dec 16 19:02:55 2002 From: techservices at nwnetwork.net (NNS Technical Services) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: Q. Who remembers the "see" editor for the ibm pc? Message-ID: <MOENLAHEDFJJMBLNKMILGEMHCHAA.techservices@nwnetwork.net> Hi, I realize that this thread is pretty cold, but you have Google to thank for my interruption. I have been trying to track down a copy of the SEE text editor that you, Fred and Carlos, were talking about in the thread at this link: http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/2001-09/1095.html I would appreciate very much if you could e-mail me a zipped-up archive of Michael Ouye's see.exe executable for 1984 or 1985 or point me to a working download link for same. Thank You, Dennis Harrington techservices@nwnetwork.net Bainbridge Island, Washington From ccraft at netgenius.org Mon Dec 16 19:03:13 2002 From: ccraft at netgenius.org (Chris Craft) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: Y2K/Y10K for V5.03 of RT-11 In-Reply-To: <3DF7F3B6.B944D616@compsys.to> References: <3DF7F3B6.B944D616@compsys.to> Message-ID: <20021212024716.9312B618F1@mamacass.springsips.com> I'd be interested on a hobbyist level, if I could run RT-11. The only os' I've run (with any confidence/utility) on the (very excellent) Supnik 11's are the unix variants available. I'd like to run tests for you, if I had some pointers. Regards, Chris Craft, RetroComputing Nut. ccraft@netgenius.org On Wednesday 11 December 2002 19:25, you wrote: > I am not sure if there is any interest at all in fixing the Y2K bugs > in V5.03 of RT-11 and making it Y2K compliant. Since V5.03 > has been widely available for a number of years and is able to > be legally run under the Supnik emulator for hobby users, I am > curious to find out if spending the time to port code (that I did in > 1997) from V5.04G of RT-11 to V5.03 of RT-11 is worth while > insofar as the Y2K bug fix is concerned. In addition, and at the > same time, it would be very effective to add extra code to make > RT-11 Y10K compliant and handle years up to at least 9999 CE. > > Even if you are only going to use the final product, the number of > individuals interested in playing a role is important to ascertain. > Please express if you would like to at least receive the changes > to V5.03 that would make the code Y2K/Y10K compliant. > > At the present time, I assume there is absolutely no commercial > interest in a Y2K V5.03 of RT-11. Consequently, the target of > this post is, by default, only the hobby community. The final result > will also be licensed for just the hobby community, so it is hoped > that ought to prevent any complications as to who will use the > changes and whether there will be any attempt to restrict the use > of such changes by the hobby community. > > If there is any commercial interest, please e-mail me off > list to find out what might be available. If the interest is > what I think it is, I will NOT be receiving any responses > at all for commercial use! > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine From jluclarose at sympatico.ca Mon Dec 16 19:03:32 2002 From: jluclarose at sympatico.ca (Jean-Luc Larose) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: JC 80 parts and maybe a complete system Message-ID: <3DF84C4E.25847B9F@sympatico.ca> Hi, I'm a univesity student, studiying electrical engineering, in Montreal, Canada. I've been salvaging many old computer parts and I've come accross some JC80 parts. Would you be interested ? Here is what I have. Two JC80 Loop repeater, they appear to be in working condition except the batteries are dead. They would need new external or internal batteries to be fully functionnal. They power up on 120V. I couldn't veryfy them further. Trying to check what it was, I went to the University Heating plant and they showed me the whole JC80 sytem, now taken out of service, and stored for quite some time. It on a pallet, in a very relative condition, but it doesn't appear to be too beaten up (no obvious abuse, broken parts or damaged components. very dusty though :-) So If you are interested, I'd be willing to help you get in touch with the right persons, the director of the heating plant or the persons responsible for the University buildings. The guy who showed me the old system said they would probably be glad to get rid of that junk but that for now they were not planning on moving it from it's storage area. So you would have all the JC80 parts/system installed at the heating plant at University of Montreal. Are you interested ? Jean-Luc Larose VE2JWL -- From david at avidguru.com Mon Dec 16 19:03:50 2002 From: david at avidguru.com (David Sutherland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: WD-1002-05 boards Message-ID: <00a101c2a1cf$bee5d230$a27ba8c0@dave> Roger, I couldn't find the thread on this to find Eric Smith's email. I have a few WD1002-05 cards. I would ship them if he want to pay a few bucks for them. do you know who might want them or want his email address is? i'd rather not just toss them out, but would like to get some small amount if they're worth anything more than postage... thx for any advice... -David Sutherland Los Angeles (Monterey Park), Calif. p.s. there's some scans of the WD1002-05 docs at: http://www.xs4all.nl/~fjkraan/comp/wd1002/index.html for Eric Smith if he is still looking ref: --- http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2002-July/000626.html Roger Ivie cctech@classiccmp.org Tue Jul 30 20:02:01 2002 a.. Previous message: Synertek 6502 chips, 1984 date-code b.. Next message: Books c.. Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eric Smith said: > Does anyone have any spare WD-1000, WD-1001, or related disk controllers, > or documentation on them? Yeah, I've got a couple of WD1002-05s, a couple of WD1002-HDOs from dead Kaypro 10s, a manual for the WD1002-05, and a manual for the WD1000. I can probably even find some of this stuff, as opposed to the Atari Portfolio stuff I promised someone a while ago. It'd cost you, though. Many years ago I sent you a couple of DECtapes with an OS/8 V3C distribution kit on them because you said you could read them with a DECtape to PC interface. It'd be nice to have those back. Or even better if you could get around to reading them and posting them somewhere for general download by the 12-bit community. -- Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021216/81d327d1/attachment.html From pb0aia at iae.nl Mon Dec 16 19:04:07 2002 From: pb0aia at iae.nl (Kees Stravers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: Tonight: "Hackers" TV show... Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20021212111159.00f3145c@pop.iae.nl> At 19:59 11-12-2002 -0500, you wrote: >> Tonight, Dec. 11th, at 10 PM Eastern time, the TLC cable channel is >>doing a show titled "Hackers". Supposedly a look at black- and white-hat >>hackers, and cyber crime. Hopefgully it'll be interesting... >Should I tell Uncle Tivo to record it??? I can make SVCDs of the thing, for >those who have DVD players that can play a slightly non-standard stream... ;-) >Laterz, >"Merch" I would very much like to see this show, but cannot receive the TLC channel on this side of the ocean. NTSC SVCDs are no problem for me! Maybe you can make the MPGs available somewehere? A while ago there was also mention of another show, about the history of the internet? Did anyone capture this show too? I would like to see that one as well, but it also was on a channel not available to me. Kees Stravers (The Netherlands) From vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu Mon Dec 16 19:04:23 2002 From: vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu (vassilip@dsl.cis.upenn.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: One more screwup with the Ace... Message-ID: <200212121625.gBCGPqam022112@codex.cis.upenn.edu> Removing ICs without a good soldering iron is an exercise in futility. About 15 years ago I was trying to remove some ROMs from a 8086 machine (a Japanese machine called Samurai with 2 8 inch floppies, running MSDOS 1.x - it was not a PC compatible, so it could not run anything other than its own version of MSDOS). The machine had a passive backplane with a series of posts on the back so that you could attach probes to the bus lines. I didn't have a proper technical manual, but I did have the schematics and I had taken a dump of the BIOS. The ROMs in question were on the video controller card and were used to store the character bitmaps. I wanted to replace the ROMs with static RAM so that I could change the character set of the machine. Unfortunately I made a complete mess of removing the two ROMs, but a visual examination of the board did not reveal any obvious damage. So I soldered a pair of sockets and mounted the original ROMs to see if the machine worked. Guess what, the fan worked, but I did not get any disk activity and the screen remained blank. Time for the funeral. So I carried that machine to the hardware lab of the University and asked the help of a friend. He was playing with a new (at the time) Dolche instrument that could attach to the bus of a microprocessor and display the code that was running (the actual assembly instructions). So he was quite excited at the prospect of using his new toy on a real machine. We plugged the DOLCHE to the Samurai backplane and we found that the processor was running, but stuck in a tight loop. So we looked at the ROM listings and found that the machine was waiting for the vertical blank signal. So we used a probe to connect the output of the video IC to the appropriate line on the backplane. As soon as the probe made contact we heard the floppy come to life. The screen was also working and the machine was trying to boot. We followed the VBLANK trace and sure enough it disappeared under the two character set ROMs. So I had the machine working again, and a war story to tell. Best Regards **vp From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 16 19:04:42 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: Unibus SCSI question In-Reply-To: <F37Hd6z6BJ8QiIWMzRs0000450e@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <F8AAFA76-0DF8-11D7-8072-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Thursday, December 12, 2002, at 11:02 AM, Mike Ross wrote: > I've just aquired a tested working Emulex UC17 Unibus SCSI host > interface from a dealer for $50... don't know if I'm crazy paying so > much for old Unibus or not! > > Question is, does anyone have any observations as to any special > requirements such a card might have? Long time since I've played with > any Emulex... any reason why it shouldn't work in really ancient > hardware, such as my 11/20?... something appeals to me about putting a > SCSI disk in such an ancient device! Can't tell you whether or not it'll play nicely with an 11/20, but I'll sure tell you I'd pay three times that for Unibus SCSI in a heartbeat. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "Why would a brothel need St. Petersburg, FL a streaming media server?" -Kevin From ScottRowe at mail.weber.edu Mon Dec 16 19:05:00 2002 From: ScottRowe at mail.weber.edu (SCOTT ROWE) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: (fwd) FS: Computer Stuff Collecting Dust - Upd Message-ID: <1039715640.b87bc6a0ScottRowe@mail.weber.edu> I noticed that you have alot of 486 SRAM Cache Chips, I have been looking for some to upgrade a computer of mine. I hope this is correct, are they for L2 Cache on the motherboard? They reason why I ask, is because that is what I need. Are they all the same configuration? ie.. (32K x8) for example. Or do you have (64K x8) or 128 versions also. Please email with Information. Thank you for your time Scott Rowe From cctech-request at classiccmp.org Mon Dec 16 19:05:18 2002 From: cctech-request at classiccmp.org (cctech-request@classiccmp.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #254 - 3 msgs Message-ID: <20021212180000.21752.6537.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Send cctech mailing list submissions to cctech@classiccmp.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cctech-request@classiccmp.org You can reach the person managing the list at cctech-admin@classiccmp.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: KIMplement for the C64 (Keven Miller) 2. Unibus SCSI question (Mike Ross) 3. Re: Unibus SCSI question (Dave McGuire) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 14:38:43 -0700 From: kevenm@reeltapetransfer.com (Keven Miller) To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: KIMplement for the C64 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Ok, the actual title is "The Visible Computer: 6502". > This sounds like fun. Is there a place one can find a copy to download? Keven Miller kevenm@reeltapetransfer.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Mike Ross" <mross666@hotmail.com> To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Unibus SCSI question Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 16:02:15 +0000 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org I've just aquired a tested working Emulex UC17 Unibus SCSI host interface from a dealer for $50... don't know if I'm crazy paying so much for old Unibus or not! Question is, does anyone have any observations as to any special requirements such a card might have? Long time since I've played with any Emulex... any reason why it shouldn't work in really ancient hardware, such as my 11/20?... something appeals to me about putting a SCSI disk in such an ancient device! Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 12:41:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Unibus SCSI question From: Dave McGuire <mcguire@neurotica.com> To: cctech@classiccmp.org Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Thursday, December 12, 2002, at 11:02 AM, Mike Ross wrote: > I've just aquired a tested working Emulex UC17 Unibus SCSI host > interface from a dealer for $50... don't know if I'm crazy paying so > much for old Unibus or not! > > Question is, does anyone have any observations as to any special > requirements such a card might have? Long time since I've played with > any Emulex... any reason why it shouldn't work in really ancient > hardware, such as my 11/20?... something appeals to me about putting a > SCSI disk in such an ancient device! Can't tell you whether or not it'll play nicely with an 11/20, but I'll sure tell you I'd pay three times that for Unibus SCSI in a heartbeat. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "Why would a brothel need St. Petersburg, FL a streaming media server?" -Kevin End of cctech Digest From vance at neurotica.com Mon Dec 16 19:05:37 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: The Ne[w|utered] HP (was: RE: The effects of employment) In-Reply-To: <20021212220249.GA3231494@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212130409200.6258-100000@mail.neurotica.com> On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, Dan Wright wrote: > Well...definitly better then the Itanium boxes. But it's pretty much a big PC, > with the build quality that would imply. kind of disappointing, compared to > their older workstations... > > I'm really just disappointed overall with their decision to kill Alpha > and PA-RISC. Itanium really isn't that good, at least not yet, and > they're going to lose a LOT of customers by doing it. I'm hoping the silver lining to this dark cloud is that it causes more POWER and UltraSPARC machines to sell, driving those prices even further down. Peace... Sridhar From moore at xygolf.com Mon Dec 16 19:05:54 2002 From: moore at xygolf.com (Mike Moore @ XY Golf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:38 2005 Subject: HP GPIO boards Message-ID: <004101c2a2c4$0246f690$6e00a8c0@Moore> I have an HP GPIO 98622A, Rev B (for 9000 series 300) and an HP 82306A (ISA GPIO for 82300 measurement coprocessor) need a good home. I'll post them on eBay in the next day or so if I don't hear from classiccmp subscribers. Some Info regarding the 98622 can be found at: http://www.tamsinc.com/support/gpio/theory.htm Info on the 82306 can be found at: http://ftp.agilent.com/pub/mpusup/pc/old/vp_gpio.html Let me know if you are interested, Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021216/1951a13d/attachment.html From deinc1 at uswest.net Mon Dec 16 19:06:12 2002 From: deinc1 at uswest.net (Larry Maki) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) Message-ID: <000601c2a2d2$c880a0a0$0200000a@computer> I would like to buy sbc11/21 computers.Falcon and Falcon+ any. deinc1@uswest.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021216/1b94ad5d/attachment.html From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 16 19:06:31 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212130309360.11998-100000@siconic.com> I am trying to identify various computers that have had their ports situated in the front of the chassis as opposed to the back. The Atari 800 would be one example (game ports in the front). Are there any other examples anyone can think of, especially where peripheral (disk, printer) or perhaps network ports are concerned? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From roger161uk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Dec 16 19:06:49 2002 From: roger161uk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Roger=20Bisson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 CP/M disks and Operation Manual Message-ID: <20021213234241.90024.qmail@web14105.mail.yahoo.com> Dear ClassicCmp Readers, I apologise for my joining the list and posting straight away, however, my reasons for doing so are that I have an original set of Epson QX-10 CP/M disks and a QX-10 Operation Manual that is looking for a new home. Unfortunately, I consigned a perfectly working (albeit "screen-burnt" with ash-filled keyboard) example of a QX-10 to the local dump a few years back. More recently, however, while clearing out my office I came across the virtually unused Operation Manual and CP/M disks. The disks are as follows (5 disks in total): Epson MultiFonts CP/M v2.2 & MultiFonts BASIC v1.3 Epson Diagnostic Program v0305 Epson CP/M PLUS Programmers Disk Epson CP/M PLUS Utilities Disk Epson CP/M PLUS GSX Disk If there is anybody who would like these disks and manual to complement a collection or museum of sorts, please could you contact me as soon as possible. Best regards Roger __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Technoid at 30below.com Mon Dec 16 19:07:08 2002 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: I'm sorry and I want to make right. (ATR 8500) Message-ID: <000501c2a329$a2a69d10$6401a8c0@benchbox> If anyone has seen the man I was to send an ATR8000 (and associated gear) to, please let me know. I've carried this package of equipment long enough. It is complete in every way but I don't know where to send it to any longer. Please reply to me at Technoid@30below.com If you feel you have been defrauded, my address is Jeffrey S. Worley 1151 N.E. 86St. Miami, Fl. 33138 My Aim id is Tecworley My Yim id is Ubertechnoid Please help me complete this transaction. Yours truly, Jeffrey S. Worley -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021216/ded54815/attachment.html From mvirard at attglobal.net Mon Dec 16 19:07:27 2002 From: mvirard at attglobal.net (Michel Virard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: AES 90 text processor Message-ID: <3DFADC29.F4DAC112@attglobal.net> I am looking for an AES 90, preferably in working condition. Michel Virard, ing. Tel (514) 343 4571 Fax (514) 342 6248 mvirard@attglobal.net From beermat at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 16 19:07:46 2002 From: beermat at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: DEC In-Reply-To: <200212141234.gBECYlCt020116@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <3DFAC55E.6080806@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Dec 14, 2002 12:45:02 AM Message-ID: <3DFB2AF7.3044.ED1C94A@localhost> > > I've just been watching the TLC show about Hackers and Phone > > Freakers. I don't work in the computer industry, so I don't hear > > many pronunciations. > > > > Do you pronounce DEC as "Dee Eee Cee" or as "deck"? I've always > > called it "deck". > > I've always pronounced it "deck", even after they insisted > on calling themselves "Digital". > another vote for "deck" greg From hwolter at sympatico.ca Mon Dec 16 19:08:05 2002 From: hwolter at sympatico.ca (hwolter@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: Fw: antique computers (Jan/2003) -Dynalogic Message-ID: <000901c2a392$8aa7ca40$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> just forwarding this from my local forsale newsgroup (Kitchener - Waterloo, Ontario). Please contact the party below; do not contact me. This is the first time I've heard of a 6800 based Dynalogic system - though I do have a dual floppy Hyperion h ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Mullin" <dmullin@sentex.net> Newsgroups: kw.forsale Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 7:32 PM Subject: Free: antique computers (Jan/2003) > 3 free computers available in January. > > Location: Kitchener > > They're currently being phasing out of active use > this month. When the last of the data has been > transfered, they're available for free to anyone > who wants one or they're off to the dump. > > The computers are 2 different models of Dynalogic > Business Machines. They were last produced in > early 1982 when Dynalogic switched to making > Hyperions (an early portable IBM PC compatible). > Dynalogic was an Ottawa based company > that started building computers in 1976. > > Specs: > > CPU: Motorola 6800 cpu, 1 meghertz speed, 8 bit > > Memory: 32K (2 machines), 64K (main machine) > > Operating system: Dynamo 3.1, Dynamo 4.0 > (mentioned because part of the operating system > is stored in an EPROM, and unless you've got a EPROM > programmer the operating system is not switchable). > Dynamo borrows features from Unix and CP/M. > > Storage: these machines have two 8" floppy drives > (2 machines: 1.2meg/disk DSDD; > 1 machine: 600k/disk SSDD) > Several hundred floppies are also available. > > Display: none included, designed for a standalone > terminal (Volker-Craig was a popular model). But can > provide a terminal emulator program. We're currently > using a pentium III class machine as a terminal > (yes, the irony is recognized...) > > I/O: serial ports > > Manuals: several pounds of those (most of which > have never been looked at). > > Software: an early basic compiler (much better > than Microsoft's efforts from that time period); > assembler (assuming the disks are still readable); > assorted basic programs (assuming the disks are > still readable), operating system disks. > > Size (approx): 20" deep, 16" wide, 10" high > > Weight (approx): 50 pounds/25 kg each > > Age: The main machine is from 1981, the > back up machines are probably 1980 or 1981. > > Enough parts for 2 working machines, 1 memory > board has gone bad in one machine, and some > of the floppy drives are in need of cleaning/lubrication. > > If interested or if you can suggest a local metal recycler > please contact: Dennis at dmullin@sentex.net > > > ================================================== > * For info on the kw.forsale charter and posting notes see * > * http://www.geocities.com/kwmoderator * > ================================================== > From jrengdahl at hotmail.com Mon Dec 16 19:08:23 2002 From: jrengdahl at hotmail.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: free: two RL01 drives, PDP-11/23, rack Message-ID: <DAV36Jn3Cz7K7sjiJr700006ef4@hotmail.com> Here is what is available: - two RL01 drives. I grabbed these to save them from the dumpster, but I have no way to try them out. - two PDP-11/03 (BA11) chassis. One is missing a piece of card guide, but it can be stuffed with 11/23 boards and it will run. If you want an 11/23 board set (KDF11-A, 256K RAM, serial/LTC) I'll throw those in too. The card cage is missing from the second BA11, but the power supply, front panel, and fans are there and functional. - a 39 inch high ugly gray 19" rack that will hold the above. - 14 RL01 disk packs. Some are labelled "RT-11 V5 + TSX", "RT-11 archive", and "Fortran". The RL01 stuff was all pulled out of an unheated U-store-it, and I don't know how long it had been there. I don't much about cleaning heads and disk packs, but I would recommend getting some expert advice and checking things carefully before spinning these up. The drives are missing the mounting hardware (slide-out rails, etc.), and the cable from the controller to the first drive. I have a cable to go from the first to the second drive, and the terminator. Free to whoever will come take it away. Located in Chardon, OH, about an hour east of Cleveland. It will *not* be trashed. It doesn't take up much room, so rather than doing a lot of work to pack it for shipment, I'd rather let it sit until someone can come pick it up. -- Jonathan Engdahl http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/pdp-11.htm "The things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 16 19:08:41 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: Need many Commodore 64, VIC-20, Atari 800 video cables Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212141117460.16440-100000@siconic.com> I am in need of many Commodore 64, VIC-20 and Atari 800 video cables. If you have a mess you want to sell or trade, please contact me at <sellam@vintage.org>. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From computermuseum at pandora.be Mon Dec 16 19:09:01 2002 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 Message-ID: <NEBBIIKKPJIBINKJOILLEENACHAA.computermuseum@pandora.be> Hi, I'm rather new inhere. I've got into my garage an IBM 5120 machine with his printer and an external diskette unit with 8 inch flops. I've got also all documentation and technical documentation of it together with all operation disks. It's running on APL (A Program Language) and it is working. Does someone know if this is a machine that is worth something? Please advise... it's rather huge and heavy and it is standing now in my garage which is rather moisty and cold..., mayby I have to move it somewhere else if it's worth it... Michel Wouters From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Dec 16 19:09:22 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021212074044.3b8fdf5e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEAELACFAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Joe > Sent: 12 December 2002 07:41 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: BBC Acorn > " vs "colour"), > > That makes sense. I noticed that the ROM containing BASIC is > labeled "US BASIC". > > What is "DFS OS"? > > I was surprised to find that it uses an intel 8271 for floppy > drive controller. > > It powered up up but isn't recognizing any keys except the > BREAK key. I ran it for over an hour then one of the rectangular > tantalum filter caps in the PSU blew. Fixing the PSU shouldn't be > a problem. Does anyone know what they use for a keyboard > interface (if it even uses one)? or if there's any schematics > posted anywhere for it? Joe, Your best bet for all Beeb related question is this site: http://bbc.nvg.org/docs.php3 It contains the full service manual, user manuals and tons of other useful stuff. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 16 19:09:59 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: working 11/70s available for $$$, one w/PEP-70 & hypercache In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021213143151.03d50cf8@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <F85AF5F4-1114-11D7-BC90-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Friday, December 13, 2002, at 03:38 PM, Tom Uban wrote: > I just scored a PEP-70/Hypercache pair from a guy on eBay and in my > conversations > with him, I've learned that he has a couple of working 11/70s, one > with conventional > MOS memory and the other with a PEP-70/Hypercache pair. He is a dealer > and I have > no association with him other than my eBay purchase. He seems like a > nice enough > fellow and these things are not getting any easier to find. So, for > those who are inclined > to spend money on their hobby computers instead of on PCs, here is the > info. I find this insinuation offensive. I never spend so much as a dime on PCs. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire "I'll send you adapters to go both ways." St. Petersburg, FL -Bill Bradford From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 16 19:11:35 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: Vintage Intel Markings In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021216103025.39ff6a98@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Dec 16, 2 10:30:25 am Message-ID: <m18O62c-000IzYC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 452 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021216/27ba4edb/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 16 19:11:55 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: working 11/70s available for $$$, one w/PEP-70 & hypercache In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021216105721.01b178a8@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <07607208-1120-11D7-BC90-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Monday, December 16, 2002, at 11:58 AM, Tom Uban wrote: > LOL!!! Sorry Dave, I do not mean to offend -- you must be one of the > lucky few... S'ok, I'll get over the shock in a few days. ;) Lucky? No...I just control what hardware I work on. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "I'll send you adapters to go both ways." St. Petersburg, FL -Bill Bradford From ram_suganthi at hotmail.com Mon Dec 16 19:12:14 2002 From: ram_suganthi at hotmail.com (Ram & Suganthi M.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: Free MCA "Streaming Tape Adapter"? Board Message-ID: <F41CGp33khCFQGKpRmD00010d11@hotmail.com> Hi, I got an unknown MCA card that has a sticky tape saying "Streaming Tape Adapter". Since I dont own a MCA system, its free for postage from NY / 11553. I thought it might have been an IMSB017 PS/2 MCA Transputer board from the description.... Cheers, Ram _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From ram_suganthi at hotmail.com Mon Dec 16 19:12:33 2002 From: ram_suganthi at hotmail.com (Ram & Suganthi M.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: RS232 or Parallel port based keyboards and joysticks Message-ID: <F6IidtTOafCEDtuWRFA000136f0@hotmail.com> Hi, Does anyone know where I can get a keyboard that either plugs into an RS232 / RS422 or Parallel Port? Ditto for a joystick. I want to connect a keyboard to a transputer array for stand-alone operation and I already have RS232 / Parallel ports on the array. Thanks, Ram _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From notwax at yahoo.com Mon Dec 16 19:12:50 2002 From: notwax at yahoo.com (Wayne Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: System/23 Support Disks In-Reply-To: <S.0000097477@mythtech.net> Message-ID: <20021216225007.74767.qmail@web40210.mail.yahoo.com> I have them and can make you copies. As you may know, I exhibited this machine at VCF 5.0 and even though I had a big sign above it that said "System 23" most people thought it was a 5120. Wish you had asked a few weeks ago before I put the S/23 back up on the rack as it weighs around 85 lbs., but I'll get to it. -W --- chris <cb@mythtech.net> wrote: > Does anyone have a set of the IBM System/23 support > disks that came with > a System/23? > > I have a manual here (Volume 1, Learning to use > System/23), and it makes > reference to disks that came with the manual. The > disks are: > > Customer Support Functions (VOL002) > Learning Diskette (VOL003) > > There may be other disks that go with later manuals > (there are 7 manuals > total, and I know one of them deals with BASIC, so I > would guess there > are disks to go with that as well... I would check > but I can't get to the > other manuals right now). > > > If anyone has these, would they be willing to make > me copies if I > supplied the blank 8" disks, postage, and a few > bucks for the effort? The > copies that go with my manuals appear to be MIA (I > suspect they were used > as blank disks many years ago). > > TIA > > -chris > <http://www.mythtech.net> > > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Dec 16 19:13:09 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: BIG problem with my Jupiter Ace In-Reply-To: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBA3@lif015.merlincommunications.com> Message-ID: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEAEEMCFAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Davison, Lee > Sent: 06 December 2002 09:00 > To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: BIG problem with my Jupiter Ace > > There is just no pleasing some people. 8^)= > > http://zx.dyndns.org/trastero/cosas/droy/jupiter/ > > You want the .pdf near the end. Interesting how he got blue as a background when the real Ace used black..... -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 16 19:13:32 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: 20mA cable details In-Reply-To: <10212162152.ZM7574@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "pete@dunnington.u-net.com" at Dec 16, 2 09:52:51 pm Message-ID: <m18O664-000IzbC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1694 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021216/8f39124e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 16 19:24:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: The ACE is recovering :-) In-Reply-To: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEECEHHCFAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> from "Witchy" at Dec 11, 2 08:21:17 pm Message-ID: <m18O6R2-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 985 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021216/9738b0c2/attachment.ksh From kenziem at sympatico.ca Mon Dec 16 19:24:24 2002 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 In-Reply-To: <NEBBIIKKPJIBINKJOILLEENACHAA.computermuseum@pandora.be> References: <NEBBIIKKPJIBINKJOILLEENACHAA.computermuseum@pandora.be> Message-ID: <20021217012621.DLRR20640.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> On Sunday 15 December 2002 17:18, Computermuseum wrote: > Hi, > > I'm rather new inhere. > I've got into my garage an IBM 5120 machine with his printer and an > external diskette unit with 8 inch flops. > I've got also all documentation and technical documentation of it > together with all operation disks. > It's running on APL (A Program Language) and it is working. > > Does someone know if this is a machine that is worth something? Anything that can run APL is a treasure! It should be displayed in a place of prominence, and guarded like the Rosetta stone. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 16 19:25:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: Old TI analog sound chip; info? In-Reply-To: <200212111826.NAA20010@parse.com> from "Robert Krten" at Dec 11, 2 01:26:46 pm Message-ID: <m18O6Sg-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 358 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021216/7a66ef62/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Mon Dec 16 19:26:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021216133103.22289A@osfn.org> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0212161726180.94591-100000@crash.cts.com> On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > No, I like to grow aquatic plants and a couple of leeches came in on > one. The whole leech tank story is much better though, and the reactions > of disgust are priceless. I wonder what the reactions would be if you told them that it was really tiresome feeding your leach tank :) - don > On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > > I get great solace from telling people about my leech tank, and how > > > tiresome feeding time can be. > > > > yuck, I hope your not serious!! > > > > Chad Fernandez > > Michigan, USA > > > > > > M. K. Peirce > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 16 19:26:19 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: A project for Tony... In-Reply-To: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEOEHHCFAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> from "Witchy" at Dec 11, 2 08:35:23 pm Message-ID: <m18O6Tv-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 243 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021216/d2b89285/attachment.ksh From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Dec 16 19:30:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 References: <NEBBIIKKPJIBINKJOILLEENACHAA.computermuseum@pandora.be> <20021217012621.DLRR20640.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <3DFE7E2C.3020901@jetnet.ab.ca> Mike wrote: > Anything that can run APL is a treasure! It should be displayed in a > place of prominence, and guarded like the Rosetta stone. And just as hard to read. APL is a WRITE ONLY langauge. :) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 16 19:30:20 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212130309360.11998-100000@siconic.com> from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Dec 13, 2 03:12:25 am Message-ID: <m18O6Xa-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 652 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021216/bdc2b029/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Mon Dec 16 19:37:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: Little score, & possible VAX 630 rescue... In-Reply-To: <3DFE4834.B1F3CFC8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0212161734230.94591-100000@crash.cts.com> On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > On the way home today, I decided to stop at the local Goodwill, in my > (never-ending?) search for Mac ADB keyboard cables. Well, I picked up a > working Mac SE/30 w/ keyboard for $5.00, and a 18" x 30" Guiness > chalkboard for $12.00. No keyboard cable with the Mac, though... Sigh... > The search continues... Are keyboard cables and keyboards that difficult to find. One of the local thrifts usually has some. Which keyboard is preferred? The short one or the longer more PC-like one? - don > A local used computer shop did net me a Mac keyboard and cable, for > $10. > > Now, on to the Vax. I have a lead on a forgotten DEC Industrial Vax > 630. I don't know what in it or anything yet. It's just the (about) 30" > x 19" x 10" rackmount unit. > Apparently, about 10 -12 years ago, DEC had a contract with a Southern > CT company, that makes industrial keyboards and mice. DEC shipped them > the Vax, to test the devices, all of them. They never asked for the > machine back. The moniter that went with it has since died. That may > still be around, but I don't know. As far as they know, the Vax still > works. Well, at least last time the powered it up. > I'm waiting to see what the company wants to do with it, but if I tell > them someone wants to buy it, that may help. It's a heavy little beast, > so shipping may be a bit much. They'll probably prefer that you pick it > up, but I'm sure something can be worked out if necessary. > > Contact me off-list. > > -- > ---Dave Woyciesjes > ---ICQ# 905818 > From avickers at solutionengineers.com Mon Dec 16 19:38:00 2002 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021217013538.0190eea0@slave> Does anyone have a working boot disk for a Sharp MZ-80B? I went to use mine for the first time in a few months, and all of the disks are either reporting "Not a Master" or "Read Error". Since I *know* that at least 3 /should/ be bootable[1], there is clearly something awry with either the disks or drives. I'm going to try my spare set of drives tomorrow, but if that doesn't work then I'm stuck :( TIA [1] One of them I made myself, used it, and even labelled it "80B Boot Disk". And that reports "Not a master" now. Grrrr. :( -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Dec 16 19:41:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: RS232 or Parallel port based keyboards and joysticks Message-ID: <200212170143.RAA03034@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I usually use my laptop as a RS232 terminal. With a little software, you can even emulate a parallel keyboard from the printer port. Joysticks are a completely different issue. Some Joysticks are digital while others are analog. Most that I know of don't connect to RS232. Dwight >From: "Ram & Suganthi M." <ram_suganthi@hotmail.com> > >Hi, > >Does anyone know where I can get a keyboard that either plugs into an RS232 >/ RS422 or Parallel Port? Ditto for a joystick. I want to connect a >keyboard to a transputer array for stand-alone operation and I already have >RS232 / Parallel ports on the array. > > >Thanks, > >Ram > >_________________________________________________________________ >The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Dec 16 19:42:12 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <3DFE1510.5010500@internet1.net> Message-ID: <200212170144.TAA14176@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > Ernest wrote: > > Based on the amount of emails that I received from all over the world, about > > this auction, I was a little surprised that it didn't end at a higher price. > > This kind of thing happens all the time. I'm not interested in Altair's, or > > even Apple I computers but people are willing to spend a lot of money to own > > them. To each his own. I'm happy for them. Sometimes, people really want > > something and they are willing to pay large amounts of money to get it. I > > know that I've been guilty of doing that and I can think of very few times > > when I regretted it. Apple II clones are my obsession, and there have been > > times when I spent way more than I could logically justify to get them but > > so what. It's my money. > > I think I agree with what your saying. If a person really wants a > certain Apple // in a certain condition with certain manuals, > peripherals, etc, then only that person can determine how much it's > worth to him. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA There are always items on Ebay that go for absurdly high prices. That DEC book by Gordon Bell for example keeps going for $50 - $60 per copy. You would think its hard to come by or something. Well, its not. A PDP 11/70 front panel for $152.50, thats absurd. Only one person bids on a PDP 8/E in pristine condition without any cards, so it goes for $500 while at the same time a 8/E with a nice set of essential cards goes for $2,248. Now thats absurd, and also explains how i'm able to get my 8's so cheaply. Which is good, because I couldnt afford to buy even one 8/E at a $2,248 price tag ;) Of course, my luck runs out when it comes to finding RK05's. But an Apple ][ going for more than the price of an 8/E boggles the mind. -Lawrence LeMay From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Dec 16 19:45:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: BIG problem with my Jupiter Ace Message-ID: <200212170147.RAA03038@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I have a monitor around someplace that if you are using a black and while signal, you can select any one of the primary colors for the background or hi-lited areas. I don't think he actually included a color >From: Witchy <witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On >> Behalf Of Davison, Lee >> Sent: 06 December 2002 09:00 >> To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' >> Subject: RE: BIG problem with my Jupiter Ace >> >> There is just no pleasing some people. 8^)= >> >> http://zx.dyndns.org/trastero/cosas/droy/jupiter/ >> >> You want the .pdf near the end. > >Interesting how he got blue as a background when the real Ace used >black..... > >-- >adrian/witchy >www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum >www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans > > From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Dec 16 19:49:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #254 - 3 msgs In-Reply-To: <20021212180000.21752.6537.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3DFE2F97.11583.2560F86@localhost> Hmmm. Obviously the list needs some modification to identify AOL lusers and lead them thru posting steps. Lawrence On 12 Dec 2002, , cctech-request@classiccmp.org wrote: > Send cctech mailing list submissions to > cctech@classiccmp.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cctech-request@classiccmp.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cctech-admin@classiccmp.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > "Re: Contents of cctech digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: KIMplement for the C64 (Keven Miller) > 2. Unibus SCSI question (Mike Ross) > 3. Re: Unibus SCSI question (Dave McGuire) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 14:38:43 -0700 > From: kevenm@reeltapetransfer.com (Keven Miller) > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: KIMplement for the C64 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > Ok, the actual title is "The Visible Computer: 6502". > > > > This sounds like fun. > Is there a place one can find a copy to download? > > Keven Miller > kevenm@reeltapetransfer.com > > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > From: "Mike Ross" <mross666@hotmail.com> > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Unibus SCSI question > Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 16:02:15 +0000 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > I've just aquired a tested working Emulex UC17 Unibus SCSI host > interface from a dealer for $50... don't know if I'm crazy paying so > much for old Unibus or not! > > Question is, does anyone have any observations as to any special > requirements such a card might have? Long time since I've played with > any Emulex... any reason why it shouldn't work in really ancient > hardware, such as my 11/20?... something appeals to me about putting a > SCSI disk in such an ancient device! > > Mike > http://www.corestore.org > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 12:41:40 -0500 > Subject: Re: Unibus SCSI question > From: Dave McGuire <mcguire@neurotica.com> > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Thursday, December 12, 2002, at 11:02 AM, Mike Ross wrote: > > I've just aquired a tested working Emulex UC17 Unibus SCSI host > > interface from a dealer for $50... don't know if I'm crazy paying so > > much for old Unibus or not! > > > > Question is, does anyone have any observations as to any special > > requirements such a card might have? Long time since I've played with > > any Emulex... any reason why it shouldn't work in really ancient > > hardware, such as my 11/20?... something appeals to me about putting a > > SCSI disk in such an ancient device! > > Can't tell you whether or not it'll play nicely with an 11/20, but > I'll sure tell you I'd pay three times that for Unibus SCSI in a > heartbeat. > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire "Why would a brothel need > St. Petersburg, FL a streaming media server?" -Kevin > > > > > End of cctech Digest lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Dec 16 19:49:23 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212130309360.11998-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <3DFE2F97.13681.2560FB8@localhost> And of course the Atari STs with the mouse/joystick located under the front of the unit. An aftermarket was created to answer the problem of having to turn the ST on it's side, being careful not to dislodge other connections. Curse you Sam Tramiel, you perverse S.O.B. for fouling an otherwise wonderful machine. (We won't mention the perverted SCSI port ATASCI for hard drives) Lawrence On 13 Dec 2002, , Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I am trying to identify various computers that have had their ports > situated in the front of the chassis as opposed to the back. > > The Atari 800 would be one example (game ports in the front). Are there > any other examples anyone can think of, especially where peripheral > (disk, printer) or perhaps network ports are concerned? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Dec 16 19:49:56 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 CP/M disks and Operation Manual In-Reply-To: <20021213234241.90024.qmail@web14105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3DFE2F97.30165.2560F4F@localhost> Yes, Yes , Yes and Yes. Hope I got to you first. Lawrence On 13 Dec 2002, , Roger Bisson wrote: > Dear ClassicCmp Readers, > > I apologise for my joining the list and posting > straight away, however, my reasons for doing so are > that I have an original set of Epson QX-10 CP/M disks > and a QX-10 Operation Manual that is looking for a new > home. > > Unfortunately, I consigned a perfectly working (albeit > "screen-burnt" with ash-filled keyboard) example of a > QX-10 to the local dump a few years back. > > More recently, however, while clearing out my office I > came across the virtually unused Operation Manual and > CP/M disks. > > The disks are as follows (5 disks in total): > > Epson MultiFonts CP/M v2.2 & MultiFonts BASIC v1.3 > Epson Diagnostic Program v0305 > Epson CP/M PLUS Programmers Disk > Epson CP/M PLUS Utilities Disk > Epson CP/M PLUS GSX Disk > > If there is anybody who would like these disks and > manual to complement a collection or museum of sorts, > please could you contact me as soon as possible. > > Best regards > > Roger > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Dec 16 19:51:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: JC 80 parts and maybe a complete system In-Reply-To: <3DF84C4E.25847B9F@sympatico.ca> References: <3DF84C4E.25847B9F@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212161954160.1146-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, Jean-Luc Larose wrote: > I'm a univesity student, studiying electrical engineering, in Montreal, > Canada. I've been salvaging many old computer parts and I've come > accross some JC80 parts. Would you be interested ? > > Trying to check what it was, I went to the University Heating plant and > they showed me the whole JC80 sytem, now taken out of service, and > stored for quite some time. It on a pallet, in a very relative > condition, but it doesn't appear to be too beaten up (no obvious abuse, > broken parts or damaged components. very dusty though :-) If someone here on the list is near this system, and has the means, please rescue it! Very few, if any of these systems survived when Johnson Controls "upgraded" sites to newer building automation systems, so this is quite a find... I've posted on the list in the past about the JC80 system I've been trying to revive, and if there is interest, I'll repost some of the details of these systems. I have tons of documentation for these systems too, but all of it is currently on microfiche... -Toth From jingber at ix.netcom.com Mon Dec 16 19:51:18 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: RS232 or Parallel port based keyboards and joysticks In-Reply-To: <200212170143.RAA03034@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200212170143.RAA03034@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <1040089862.15657.107.camel@supermicro> Serial joysticks are not uncommon. M$ makes (made?) one or two sidewinders that used the serial port. You can probably find some E-bay. Jeff On Mon, 2002-12-16 at 20:43, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi > I usually use my laptop as a RS232 terminal. With a > little software, you can even emulate a parallel keyboard > from the printer port. > Joysticks are a completely different issue. Some Joysticks > are digital while others are analog. Most that I know of > don't connect to RS232. > Dwight > > > >From: "Ram & Suganthi M." <ram_suganthi@hotmail.com> > > > >Hi, > > > >Does anyone know where I can get a keyboard that either plugs into an RS232 > >/ RS422 or Parallel Port? Ditto for a joystick. I want to connect a > >keyboard to a transputer array for stand-alone operation and I already have > >RS232 / Parallel ports on the array. > > > > > >Thanks, > > > >Ram > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > > > > From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Dec 16 19:59:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: Old TI analog sound chip; info? In-Reply-To: <m18O6Sg-000IzIC@p850ug1> References: <m18O6Sg-000IzIC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212162001090.1146-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > I'm looking for the documentation for the olde TI analog sound chip; > > this dates back to the late 70's early 80's if my memory serves me > > correctly. I don't even remember the part number. AFAIK, it had some > > kind of "I2L" (I squared > > The number 'SN76477' springs to mind. May not be the same device, but it > was a TI analogue sound generator. The sound generator chips that I recall TI making were the SN76477N, SN76488N, and the SN94281. I believe TI also made some others, but those were commonly available to hobbyist in the time period that is mentioned above. I'm fairly sure Radio Shack at one time sold some of those particular sound generator chips too. I have the data sheet for the SN94281, but I'm not sure about the other two. If it would be helpful, I can scan it. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Dec 16 20:05:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? In-Reply-To: <m18O6Xa-000IzIC@p850ug1> References: <m18O6Xa-000IzIC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212162007520.1146-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > I am trying to identify various computers that have had their ports > > situated in the front of the chassis as opposed to the back. > > Many computers built in 19" racks of Eurocards (e.g. Acorn Systems) have > the I/O connectors on the front edge of the boards. The JC80/85 systems had tons of connections in the front of their chassis. The remote loop racks are full of boards that have screw terminals along their front edge. Those racks of boards handle nearly all the I/O for these building automation system computers. I guess those could be considered "ports" ;) -Toth From wmsmith at earthlink.net Mon Dec 16 21:26:01 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 References: <NEBBIIKKPJIBINKJOILLEENACHAA.computermuseum@pandora.be> Message-ID: <004e01c2a57c$49c5e930$1843cd18@D73KSM11> > Hi, > > I'm rather new inhere. > I've got into my garage an IBM 5120 machine with his printer and an external > diskette unit with 8 inch flops. > I've got also all documentation and technical documentation of it together > with all operation disks. > It's running on APL (A Program Language) and it is working. > > Does someone know if this is a machine that is worth something? > Yes. (Credit to Eric Smith for this succinct response.) From cb at mythtech.net Mon Dec 16 21:28:48 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? Message-ID: <S.0000097832@mythtech.net> >I am trying to identify various computers that have had their ports >situated in the front of the chassis as opposed to the back. > >The Atari 800 would be one example (game ports in the front). Are there >any other examples anyone can think of, especially where peripheral (disk, >printer) or perhaps network ports are concerned? Didn't the IBM PCjr have two aux sockets on the front for game cartridges and I thought there was a printer interface that could use those sockets, and a floppy drive interface as well (could be wrong). And of course Mac's up to the Mac Plus have the keyboard port in the front, as well as I have seen some old PC clones like that (but I suspect that isn't exactly what you are looking for). -chris <http://www.mythtech.net> From jss at subatomix.com Mon Dec 16 21:41:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: Oops (was: cctech digest, Vol 1 #254 - 3 msgs) In-Reply-To: <3DFE2F97.11583.2560F86@localhost> References: <3DFE2F97.11583.2560F86@localhost> Message-ID: <177104686230.20021216214331@subatomix.com> On Monday, December 16, 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Hmmm. Obviously the list needs some modification to identify > AOL lusers and lead them thru posting steps. Oops, sorry to let that one through. College is still a week from finished, and I started full-time work today. Stated nicely, moderation has entered ultra-high-speed mode, where it will stay until my life emerges from DEFCON 1 on Dec 23, 2002. An interesting concidence: my last day of actual classes was Dec 11. DEC 11/02 to be precise. :-) -- Jeffrey Sharp From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Dec 16 21:47:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: Old TI analog sound chip; info? In-Reply-To: <200212111826.NAA20010@parse.com> Message-ID: <3DFE4B39.4012.2C20326@localhost> This shows some of the limited scope of the vaunted advances in computer technology. One can't do number powers easily. The Micom 2000 using its subscript and superscript could print them back in 1975. I can't remember how they displayed them onscreen but they must have had some method of doing so. Lawrence On 11 Dec 2002, , Robert Krten wrote: > > I tried a google search, but alas... :-) > > I'm looking for the documentation for the olde TI analog > sound chip; this dates back to the late 70's early 80's if > my memory serves me correctly. I don't even remember the > part number. AFAIK, it had some kind of "I2L" (I squared > el) technology or somesuch, and it was mostly analog, with > some digital control (but nothing like a DSP or midi). > > Anyone recall this chip? Anyone have the datasheet for > it online or willing to scan it in? > > Background: I remember playing with it a *long* time ago, > and wanted to model it in software :-) > > Cheers, and thanks in advance, > -RK > > -- > Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! > Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Dec 16 21:47:45 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:39 2005 Subject: Need many Commodore 64, VIC-20, Atari 800 video cables In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212141117460.16440-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <3DFE4B38.24854.2C202FA@localhost> There's a guy who makes and sell them on E-pay all the time. Maybe he would do a deal for quantity. I can't remember off the top of my head, but there were both 3 and 4 lead RCA plugs. Lawrence On 14 Dec 2002, , Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I am in need of many Commodore 64, VIC-20 and Atari 800 video cables. > If you have a mess you want to sell or trade, please contact me at > <sellam@vintage.org>. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Dec 16 21:48:20 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021217013538.0190eea0@slave> Message-ID: <3DFE4B39.2466.2C20358@localhost> I noticed a bunch of MZ stuff on E-Pay last nite. Based in the UK. Also an UK MZ users group this led me to. Lawrence On 17 Dec 2002, , Adrian Vickers wrote: > Does anyone have a working boot disk for a Sharp MZ-80B? > > I went to use mine for the first time in a few months, and all of the > disks are either reporting "Not a Master" or "Read Error". Since I > *know* that at least 3 /should/ be bootable[1], there is clearly > something awry with either the disks or drives. I'm going to try my > spare set of drives tomorrow, but if that doesn't work then I'm stuck :( > > TIA > > > [1] One of them I made myself, used it, and even labelled it "80B Boot > Disk". And that reports "Not a master" now. Grrrr. :( -- Cheers, Ade. Be > where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From jingber at ix.netcom.com Mon Dec 16 21:55:01 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? In-Reply-To: <S.0000097832@mythtech.net> References: <S.0000097832@mythtech.net> Message-ID: <1040097363.15659.111.camel@supermicro> On Mon, 2002-12-16 at 22:28, chris wrote: > Didn't the IBM PCjr have two aux sockets on the front for game cartridges > and I thought there was a printer interface that could use those sockets, > and a floppy drive interface as well (could be wrong). The only front-facing "ports" on the jr were the cartridge slots (if you count those). There were cartridges that could provide connections to other devices, but these were not very common. Besides the hole for the infra-red port on the front of the jr, the face is portless. The parallel port was added via a sidecar which would have placed the DB-25 on the rear of the machine. There were *many* was to add floppies to the jr, but the cartridge ports were not one of them. Jeff > > And of course Mac's up to the Mac Plus have the keyboard port in the > front, as well as I have seen some old PC clones like that (but I suspect > that isn't exactly what you are looking for). > > -chris > <http://www.mythtech.net> > From blstuart at bellsouth.net Mon Dec 16 21:57:00 2002 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 In-Reply-To: Your message of Sun, 15 Dec 2002 23:18:51 +0100 . <NEBBIIKKPJIBINKJOILLEENACHAA.computermuseum@pandora.be> Message-ID: <m18O8lT-0003ffC@nomad> In message <NEBBIIKKPJIBINKJOILLEENACHAA.computermuseum@pandora.be>, "Computerm useum" writes: >I've got into my garage an IBM 5120 machine with his printer and an external >diskette unit with 8 inch flops. >I've got also all documentation and technical documentation of it together >with all operation disks. >It's running on APL (A Program Language) and it is working. > >Does someone know if this is a machine that is worth something? Is this another name for the 5100 with APL option? If so, my experience is that they're made of unobtanium. If it's something else altogether, I've never even heard of it and would thing it at least as interesting. Bottom line: it sounds quit cool and if you don't have room for it, I'll be glad to take it off your hands. Just send it to... Brian L. Stuart From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Dec 16 22:01:01 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212130309360.11998-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <3DFEAF33.4C815136@ccp.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I am trying to identify various computers that have had their ports > situated in the front of the chassis as opposed to the back. > > The Atari 800 would be one example (game ports in the front). Are there > any other examples anyone can think of, especially where peripheral (disk, > printer) or perhaps network ports are concerned? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail The Amiga 2000 had the keyboard and mouse/joystick ports out the front. Gary Hildebrand From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Dec 16 22:03:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? In-Reply-To: <1040097363.15659.111.camel@supermicro> References: <S.0000097832@mythtech.net> <1040097363.15659.111.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212162302330.18243-100000@panix3.panix.com> Was not the Osborne I so designed? ISTR, from the one I had, that everything was on the front panel and the case was whole, unlike the Compaqs, with thier PC-slot and Power access doors on the sides. Cheers and Best of the Season John From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Dec 16 22:10:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Oops (was: cctech digest, Vol 1 #254 - 3 msgs) In-Reply-To: <177104686230.20021216214331@subatomix.com> References: <3DFE2F97.11583.2560F86@localhost> Message-ID: <3DFE50AB.9225.2D74B2D@localhost> No criticism implied or meant. I was just thinking that functionality was more important than solid or pastel colors. And I wrote modification not moderation. Obviously you have a full plate and moderating the list has to be of lowest priority. I can stand a little spam or luser mail. Keeps me on my toes. Click,delete..click,delete Dec 11/02 and Dec 23 seems to ring a bell. Maybe it is a synchronicity forcasting good fortune. Lawrence On 16 Dec 2002, , Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Monday, December 16, 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > Hmmm. Obviously the list needs some modification to identify > > AOL lusers and lead them thru posting steps. > > Oops, sorry to let that one through. College is still a week from > finished, and I started full-time work today. Stated nicely, moderation > has entered ultra-high-speed mode, where it will stay until my life > emerges from DEFCON 1 on Dec 23, 2002. > > An interesting concidence: my last day of actual classes was Dec 11. DEC > 11/02 to be precise. :-) > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Mon Dec 16 22:16:01 2002 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: I'm back (again)! Message-ID: <20021217041831.6D1FA15E01@www.fastmail.fm> Hello everybody! I'm back again! Let's hope I can stay on again without dropping off the face of the earth! For anybody who doesn't know me, I was subscribed to this list some time ago, but I lost my e-mail account. I'm a 21 year old classic computer collector (or "Digital Archaeologist" as I like to call myself) originally from Texas, but I'm in the Navy. I'm stationed at Keesler AFB, Biloxi (for AG "A" school). -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://fastmail.fm - mmm... fastmail... From foo at siconic.com Mon Dec 16 22:20:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <017701c2a54d$1816fde0$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212161221340.24675-100000@siconic.com> On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, J.C.Wren wrote: > Uncontrolled? What, does yours get up and wander off on it's own sometimes > or something? It used to, but now I'm a bit more settled, so it behaves. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Dec 16 22:21:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212162302330.18243-100000@panix3.panix.com> References: <1040097363.15659.111.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <3DFE5358.13088.2E1BEDC@localhost> Yup, the whole shebang. External Battery, keyboard, printer, video, serial RS232 and Modem. BTW what was the difference between the modem and RS232 ports ? Lawrence On 16 Dec 2002, , John Lawson wrote: > > > Was not the Osborne I so designed? ISTR, from the one I had, that > everything was on the front panel and the case was whole, unlike the > Compaqs, with thier PC-slot and Power access doors on the sides. > > > Cheers and Best of the Season > > John > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From foo at siconic.com Mon Dec 16 22:22:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <017701c2a54d$1816fde0$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212161222150.24675-100000@siconic.com> On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, J.C.Wren wrote: > Uncontrolled? What, does yours get up and wander off on it's own sometimes > or something? This reminds me of the song called "Detachable Penis" by King Missile. The guy talks about losing his detachable penis at a party. He finally finds it sitting on a blanket with a bunch of other stuff for sale on the streets. He had to talk the guy down in price but he got it and went home and put it back on, relieved he didn't have to sit down to pee anymore. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Dec 16 22:24:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 for sale In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212100102330.32194-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212161225590.24675-100000@siconic.com> How come a slew of my messages got held up in queue for almost a week? Was it on my side or the CC server side? On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I am passing this message along to anyone (presumably in the UK) who is > interested in an IBM 5150. Please reply to the original sender. > > Reply-to: <slipperysli@hotmail.com> or <mail@slibob.com> > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 12:29:10 +0000 > From: Simon Taylor <slipperysli@hotmail.com> > Reply-To: mail@slibob.com > Subject: IBM 5150 > > Hi > > I have a 1981 IBM 5150, complete with monitor and tracotr-feed dot-matrix > printer which I am hoping to sell. > > Are you interested? If you aren't please could you put me in touch with > anyone who might be interested? Please let me know if you can or can't help > me. > > Thanks very much > > Simon Taylor > http://www.slibob.co.uk/ > Tel: 07021 118445 > Txt: 07951 704272 > > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Dec 16 22:35:01 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? References: <1040097363.15659.111.camel@supermicro> <3DFE5358.13088.2E1BEDC@localhost> Message-ID: <3DFEB70A.C0D0F126@ccp.com> Lawrence Walker wrote: > > Yup, the whole shebang. External Battery, keyboard, printer, video, > serial RS232 and Modem. BTW what was the difference between the > modem and RS232 ports ? > > Lawrence Besides number of pins . . . . I think the 9 pin Modem port was for the accessory modem and has DC feeding the box that fits in the disk bay. The RS232 could be configured to drive a serial printer which was the common interface back then, especially on daisywheels. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From foxnhare at bigvalley.net Mon Dec 16 22:43:00 2002 From: foxnhare at bigvalley.net (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? References: <20021217035700.69123.80922.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3DFEABBD.A1C072F5@bigvalley.net> Heh.. While looking at a Transactor Magazine tonite (fomr something else), I had noticed this bit in the new Products Section (from January 1986) Commodore 64 Remote Keyboard Conversion Kit What it is - an extension ribbon cable for the 64 keyboard top with shells for the PCboard bottom and Keyboard top. From the news item: Remote Keyboard Conversion Kit If you have a Remote Keyboard Conversion Kit - Here's that you have: [picture of keyboard in front of bottom of 64 with ports facing the keyboard] - a keyboard for your lap, lean back-relax. - Keyboard to pass around when playing games - Keyboard not restricted in movement by 5 cables - A computer with cable plugs facing you (in the 64's design that would be Parallel user port, TV, Video, Disk Drive/Printer, Cassette and Cartridge.) - A Computer you can change cabling and accessories easily. - Color keyed to match the original unit (the brownish breadbox style) Friendly Systems, Inc. 1845 Range St. Suite A Boulder, CO 80301 (from page 77 of the Jan '86 Transactor Vol.6,Iss.4) And didn't some rack mounted 8-bits (Apple, Atari, and 64) have the ports out the front? I read about such units at major software places like EA, they were custom mountings though. ... Thinking on that you might find rack mounted PCs with forward ports too in late 80's industrial component catalogs... Larry -- 01000011 01001111 01001101 01001101 01001111 01000100 01001111 01010010 01000101 Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (209) 754-1363 300-14.4k bps Set your 8-bit C= rigs to sail for http://www.portcommodore.com/ 01000011 01001111 01001101 01010000 01010101 01010100 01000101 01010010 01010011 From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 16 23:04:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: 20mA cable details In-Reply-To: <10212162152.ZM7574@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20021217050657.65717.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > The time has come to hook my ASR33 to the PDP-8/E. Cool! Good on ya. > The -8/E has an M8650 (KL8E) which I've been using with RS232. However, > I have 40-way Berg connectors, and the proper AMP flat 8-way Mate-N-Lok > connector shells for the 20mA loop, and the male and female pins... Sounds like you have the basics covered. Don't forget the short jumper wire at the Berg end that directs the TTL output of the KL8E shift register to the 20mA output circuit. It's a different loop than the one you should have right now on your EIA cable. I've successfully converted COMBOARD cables (synchronous serial to DB-25 for sync modems or modem elimnators) to PDP-8 EIA cables by cutting a few wires out, rearranging the remainder, and adding the output driver selection loop. I haven't yet made any PDP-8 20mA cables from a COMBOARD cable, but only because I lack a supply of the Mate-N-Lok housings and uncrimped pins. > There's a grey 6-core connected to the ASR33, and I *think* the male > connector (the one with the flat tongue and 6 male pins) goes on this > cable. Yes. > Therefore the connector with the grooves, which the tongue slides > into, and the female "pins", does on the cable from to the PDP-8/E's Berg > connector. Yes? Yes. > Next question is, roughly how long would the original 20mA cable on the > TTY have been? My memory, reaching back two or more decades, says the > cable on the KL8E should be about a couple of feet, and the rest is all > one piece, attached to the TTY. The TTY cable for the -8/a is spec'ed at one foot long with a female connector ("1976-1977 small computer handbook", under the entry for DKC8AA). My ASR-33 cable is about 4 meters with a male connector that I plug into a short female cable that comes from a W076 board in my -8/L. > Or would there be a third in between? I have seen that arrangement on later 20mA equipment (VT220s and DZ-11s) the equipment had the female connectors and were interconnected with Male- to-Male 20mA cables. In the days of the ASR-33 and VT52, though, the terminals had multi-meter male cables that plugged into short female cables at the CPU. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 16 23:15:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: AMD2901CDC chip available In-Reply-To: <016b01c2a531$b10572a0$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <20021217051713.47039.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- "J.C.Wren" <jcwren@jcwren.com> wrote: > I was in the local purveyor of old chips establishment today, and > noticed a drawer of about 20 AMD2901CDC bit slicers. I don't know how > common they are right now, but it *seems* that I remember a thread of > someone looking for some. The price on the drawer said $5/ea. That may > be high, may be low, I don't know. Seems high to me. BG Micro lists "AM2901"s at $1.50. They are on page five of the current catalog under "miscellaneous" along with 2907s, 2909s, 2910s, 2911s, 2964s and 29701s. I only mention them in context in case someone recognizes them as a different family of chips. I certainly would have ordered their "AM2901s" to drop in place of an AMD2901, hopefully without incident. At the moment, though, I have several in my drawer of "pulls" from when I stripped a dead VAX/11-730 CPU board about 12 years ago. Before anyone lights up a flame thrower, we had a crate of dead CPU boards at work (it was cheaper at the time to purchase entire 11/730s for parts than have one 4 hour visit from DEC field service) and I pulled the 2901s to resurrect a friend's vector processor for his Battle Zone. The operation was a success. I pulled 8 2901s from the CPU board, gave him 4 of them and he was back in business. Still works. Still have the other 4 in a drawer in case he calls back. Still... if you _really_ needed one or two, $5 isn't a gawdawful price, but it's more than you might have to pay with a little digging. I'm sure they were a lot more than that even 10 years ago. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From donm at cts.com Mon Dec 16 23:17:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: WD-1002-05 boards In-Reply-To: <00a101c2a1cf$bee5d230$a27ba8c0@dave> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0212162115140.21432-100000@crash.cts.com> On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, David Sutherland wrote: > Roger, > > I couldn't find the thread on this to find Eric Smith's email. > > I have a few WD1002-05 cards. I would ship them if he want to pay a > few bucks for them. > > do you know who might want them or want his email address is? i'd > rather not just toss them out, but would like to get some small amount > if they're worth anything more than postage... David, before seeing them consigned to purgatory, I would probably take three or four at a nominal price plus shipping. Let me know the status by off-list email. Thanks! - don > thx for any advice... > > -David Sutherland > Los Angeles (Monterey Park), Calif. > > p.s. there's some scans of the WD1002-05 docs at: > http://www.xs4all.nl/~fjkraan/comp/wd1002/index.html > for Eric Smith if he is still looking > > > ref: > --- > http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2002-July/000626.html > > Roger Ivie cctech@classiccmp.org > Tue Jul 30 20:02:01 2002 > > a.. Previous message: Synertek 6502 chips, 1984 date-code > b.. Next message: Books > c.. Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Eric Smith said: > > Does anyone have any spare WD-1000, WD-1001, or related disk controllers, > > or documentation on them? > > Yeah, I've got a couple of WD1002-05s, a couple of WD1002-HDOs from dead > Kaypro 10s, a manual for the WD1002-05, and a manual for the WD1000. I > can probably even find some of this stuff, as opposed to the Atari > Portfolio stuff I promised someone a while ago. > > It'd cost you, though. Many years ago I sent you a couple of DECtapes with > an OS/8 V3C distribution kit on them because you said you could read them > with a DECtape to PC interface. It'd be nice to have those back. Or even > better if you could get around to reading them and posting them somewhere > for general download by the 12-bit community. > -- > Roger Ivie > ivie@cc.usu.edu > > From wmsmith at earthlink.net Mon Dec 16 23:20:01 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: ABECLASSIC? was RE: 1977 Apple II for sale. References: <1039985085.17474.72.camel@supermicro> <3.0.6.16.20021216100433.5517d960@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <006f01c2a58c$3865df00$1843cd18@D73KSM11> > At 04:57 PM 12/15/02 -0500, you wrote: > >I think it was the earliest serial # Apple II to go on sale (#2000 I > >believe). The fact that it had document + in working condition was a > >big plus. > > > >I'm not sure I would have paid $3800 though. > > > >Btw - Does anyone know who the guy at ebay user id 'abeclassic' is? > > Yes, I know him but I don't feel that I should give out his name without his permission. I've had several dealings with him and he seems to be a real upright guy. > > Joe > Someone refers to him as "Avi" in his feedback. -W From ernestls at attbi.com Mon Dec 16 23:21:00 2002 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <200212170144.TAA14176@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <OHENIDDKMMADIAHOLNMCAEIKCOAA.ernestls@attbi.com> > There are always items on Ebay that go for absurdly high prices. That DEC > book by Gordon Bell for example keeps going for $50 - $60 per copy. You > would think its hard to come by or something. Well, its not. A PDP 11/70 > front panel for $152.50, thats absurd. Only one person bids on a PDP 8/E > in pristine condition without any cards, so it goes for $500 while at > the same time a 8/E with a nice set of essential cards goes for $2,248. > Now thats absurd, and also explains how i'm able to get my 8's so cheaply. > Which is good, because I couldnt afford to buy even one 8/E at a $2,248 > price tag ;) > > Of course, my luck runs out when it comes to finding RK05's. > > But an Apple ][ going for more than the price of an 8/E boggles the mind. You do realize that what you are saying is your own opinion though, right? Also, you failed to understand the point that I was trying to make which is that each collector has their own idea of what is valuable, for reasons that you or I may not understand. To say that it's absurd for someone to pay more for something they want, than you would for something you want seems kind of absurd to me. Sure the 8/E may be more rare, or cool, or whatever than an Apple II with a low serial number but it's value is based on what you (the collector) are willing to pay. I wouldn't pay $4000.00 for a deluxe Altair but obviously there are a few folks out there who would. Nor would I pay $2248 for a PDP of any type or condition but it I don't become distressed if other people choose to. It boggles my mind to think that you/we collectors, having seen this all before, are even slightly surprised by this kind of thing anymore. There are several billion people on this planet, so I would say the odds are pretty good that at least two of them will, for whatever reasons, try very hard to get something that is fairly rare on that kind of scale. One more thing to consider is that most people would agree that Altair's are fairly rare but you can find them on ebay on a regular basis. If you don't see one there today then wait a day or two and you will. That doesn't seem all that rare to me, and yet people are still willing to pay more than $3k for them. How often do you see very early model Apple II's, in any condition? I don't remember ever seeing one like the computer I just sold. Sure, you can find Apple II's on ebay all the time but they are usually later revisions, and have II+ keyboards, and beat up cases, etc.. Savvy collectors know this, so they don't bid $3800 dollars for them but the computer that I just sold is not like that. What's more, there was no existing precedent for the value of something like it. To further beat a dead horse, consider that there are folks who are willing to spend millions for what they consider art. Things like paintings and sculptures sell for millions only because that is what some people are willing to pay. In my opinion, some computers are works of art, which can inspire the same emotional response in me that a fine sculpture can in other people. If I had an Altair, I wouldn't use it. I would display it like a painting or any other piece of fine art. Sadly, I can't afford either one of them so I don't think about it. The point is that the value of something like a painting, or an old computer is determined by the people who want it. In this case, the user base for the Apple II is larger than the one for the 8/E, so it would follow that there would be more people desiring to own an Apple II like the one I just sold. E. From donm at cts.com Mon Dec 16 23:37:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021217013538.0190eea0@slave> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0212162136430.21432-100000@crash.cts.com> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Adrian Vickers wrote: > Does anyone have a working boot disk for a Sharp MZ-80B? I will email a TeleDisk image of the MZ-80B 64K CP/M-2.2.2.15 on Micro Tech BIOS if that will be of any help. - don > I went to use mine for the first time in a few months, and all of the disks > are either reporting "Not a Master" or "Read Error". Since I *know* that at > least 3 /should/ be bootable[1], there is clearly something awry with > either the disks or drives. I'm going to try my spare set of drives > tomorrow, but if that doesn't work then I'm stuck :( > > TIA > > > [1] One of them I made myself, used it, and even labelled it "80B Boot > Disk". And that reports "Not a master" now. Grrrr. :( > -- > Cheers, Ade. > Be where it's at, B-Racing! > http://b-racing.com > From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Dec 16 23:54:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Valuable MicroVAX-II (?) In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0212162136430.21432-100000@crash.cts.com> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212162147330.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> Wow, a MicroVAX II (BA123 9MB, 3x RD54, 1x TK50, 1x RX50) is going for over $300, and there is still a day left on the auction. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2080763459 I'd expect that for one with a SCSI Qbus module, but this system seems rather vanilla, except for the multiple RD54s. Who'd a thunk it? -brian. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Dec 17 00:05:00 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article. References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212160142260.22374-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <00a201c2a592$837227a0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> > On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Feldman, Robert wrote: > > > <quote> NPR's Rick Karr reports on the latest developments in the ongoing > > dispute between record companies and artists over royalty payments. Two of > > the five major labels say they will change the way they compute royalties, > > to make them more transparent and less confusing. The record companies hope > > the changes will convince more artists to join the fight against free > > downloads of music on the Internet. </quote> > > So in other words, artists are feeling screwed and this is why they are > loathe to denounce file sharing? My guess is that after they see what > they are really losing, they will be more inclined to support file > sharing. > Out of spite? I don't think that's particularly likely. This has been an interesting thread because it has, in some respects, come full circle. The only artists who can even theoretically make anything from profit participation are, for the most part, the same top-40 artists that put out the "crap" that everyone on the list seems to despise. The reality is that in the vast majority of cases it is only when an artist "wins the lottery" with a commercial success that all the bitching and moaning about profits and accounting begins, although the cover story will always be that they're trying to help the "little guy". That's courage for you. The record and movie businesses both operate on "blockbuster" economics. The vast majority of what is put out loses money, and the few titles that hit it big make up for all the losers which don't recoup their advances. When you read about this issue in the media all you ever hear is the "artist" position, and the record companies never attempt to defend themselves. If you've ever worked for a big company, you know the reason already. Big companies, as a matter of policy, almost never discuss the details of their disputes in the press, other than to say generalized things such as "we will appeal this unjust verdict." With only one side yakking about their grievances in public, that's what gets published, and that's all you hear. If the record companies were really cheating artists to the extent some seem to believe, they would be having their hats handed to them by juries everywhere. It isn't happening, and it isn't for the lack of a plaintiff's attorneys in Los Angeles. If there were cases to be had in the courts, they would be there. Draw your own conclusions from the fact that they aren't. What's left is a lot of subjective talk about relative bargaining strength, an issue the artist are trying to win the American way -- through lobbying and legislation. From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Dec 17 00:11:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Valuable MicroVAX-II (?) In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212162147330.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212162147330.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212170007130.7673-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > Wow, a MicroVAX II (BA123 9MB, 3x RD54, 1x TK50, 1x RX50) is going for > over $300, and there is still a day left on the auction. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2080763459 > > I'd expect that for one with a SCSI Qbus module, but this system seems > rather vanilla, except for the multiple RD54s. > > Who'd a thunk it? Certainly not me... The MicroVAX II thats been giving me fits was originally a "discard" that I just happened to ask about. The former owner was glad to get rid of it. It more or less came as a bonus with the SGI 4D boxes I bought/hauled off. This sure appears to be an example of an overzealous eBay bidder... That MicroVAX II does appear to have a fair complement of boards based on the photo of the rear bulkhead, but there isn't a photo of the inside of the card cage, so some of those boards could have been removed. Anyone have any ideas as to why most BA123s are missing the door that covers the operator's panel? Is it just easily broken and lost? -Toth From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Dec 17 00:16:00 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 References: <m18O8lT-0003ffC@nomad> Message-ID: <00be01c2a594$18f8da20$1843cd18@D73KSM11> > In message <NEBBIIKKPJIBINKJOILLEENACHAA.computermuseum@pandora.be>, "Computerm > useum" writes: > >I've got into my garage an IBM 5120 machine with his printer and an external > >diskette unit with 8 inch flops. > >I've got also all documentation and technical documentation of it together > >with all operation disks. > >It's running on APL (A Program Language) and it is working. > > > >Does someone know if this is a machine that is worth something? > > Is this another name for the 5100 with APL option? If so, my > experience is that they're made of unobtanium. If it's something > else altogether, I've never even heard of it and would thing it > at least as interesting. Bottom line: it sounds quit cool and > if you don't have room for it, I'll be glad to take it off your > hands. Just send it to... > > Brian L. Stuart > It's close to a 5100 -- it's a 5110 model 3 (aka 5120) which looks a lot like a System 23/Datamaster. The last one on Ebay went for around $1,200, but it's clearly *not* worth that. Nadeau's book says $90 to $300. -W From fernande at internet1.net Tue Dec 17 00:38:01 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Q. Who remembers the "see" editor for the ibm pc? References: <MOENLAHEDFJJMBLNKMILGEMHCHAA.techservices@nwnetwork.net> Message-ID: <3DFEC670.90101@internet1.net> NNS Technical Services wrote: > Hi, > > I realize that this thread is pretty cold, but you have Google to thank for > my interruption. > > I have been trying to track down a copy of the SEE text editor that you, > Fred and Carlos, were talking about in the thread at this link: > http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/2001-09/1095.html > > I would appreciate very much if you could e-mail me a zipped-up archive of > Michael Ouye's see.exe executable for 1984 or 1985 or point me to a working > download link for same. > > Thank You, > Dennis Harrington > techservices@nwnetwork.net > Bainbridge Island, Washington > > > I used to have a see.exe or maybe .com, but it wasn't an editor, just a viewer. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Dec 17 00:53:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Valuable MicroVAX-II (?) In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212162147330.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212170050390.2141-100000@george.home.org> On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > Wow, a MicroVAX II (BA123 9MB, 3x RD54, 1x TK50, 1x RX50) is going for > over $300, and there is still a day left on the auction. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2080763459 > > I'd expect that for one with a SCSI Qbus module, but this system seems > rather vanilla, except for the multiple RD54s. Cha-CHING!!! There are resellers who pay VERY well for RD54's. I dunno why, with SCSI modules easily available (not cheap, but common), but they do. I recently traded 2 non-DEC Maxtors (4194? The one that is RD54) for a DEC-branded QLogic 1040 and some other baubles. Those things go for $130+ on eBay. Doc From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Dec 17 00:59:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Ebay [was: Re: The ACE is recovering :-)] References: <m18O6R2-000IzIC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <001101c2a59a$54a15100$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Well, speaking of the ROMs, the Austrian guy I ordered the 462532s off isn't responding to any of my emails. Surprising, considering his 300-odd feedback rating, 99% positive. The problem? He's given me a shipping price of EUR2.55 per batch of three chips, plus EUR1 for three ROMs. I've ordered six ROMs, so that comes to EUR3.55 x 2 = 7.10. But he seems to be ignoring my mails requesting a postage price for me. Bear in mind I'm in England (ho hum). The auction listed "Will ship internationally" in the "Shipping" box, so either he never really meant to sell these chips or he's screwed up somewhere. What would you guys do? Send a few Euros in a cardboard envelope, Recorded Delivery or whatever? Surely EUR 5.10 would be enough to ship three EPROMs in a Jiffy bag from Austria... *sigh*, damned if I do, damned if I don't... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From Qstieee at aol.com Tue Dec 17 01:40:17 2002 From: Qstieee at aol.com (Qstieee@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Acquired a PDP11/44, but missing M7095 Message-ID: <1FF18B17.35CA4CB5.001A265C@aol.com> If you go to http://www.tarinc.com/decparts.htm you'll see the M7095 on the list. I have done business with them, even visited their location. From Qstieee at aol.com Tue Dec 17 01:50:11 2002 From: Qstieee at aol.com (Qstieee@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Freeware for VAX! Message-ID: <1B695FAD.7F169493.001A265C@aol.com> On this subject, see also http://www.process.com/openvms/index.html From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 17 02:35:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: JC 80 parts and maybe a complete system In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212161954160.1146-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212161636210.25447-100000@siconic.com> On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > If someone here on the list is near this system, and has the means, please > rescue it! > > Very few, if any of these systems survived when Johnson Controls > "upgraded" sites to newer building automation systems, so this is quite a > find... Hey, Johnson Controls is headquartered right near me here in Livermore, California. Their trucks are always in my way as I exit off the freeway on my way home ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Tue Dec 17 03:00:01 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Old TI analog sound chip; info? Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBB9@lif015.merlincommunications.com> > I'm looking for the documentation for the olde TI analog > sound chip; this dates back to the late 70's early 80's if > my memory serves me correctly. I don't even remember the > part number. AFAIK, it had some kind of "I2L" (I squared > el) technology or somesuch, and it was mostly analog, with > some digital control (but nothing like a DSP or midi). > Anyone recall this chip? Anyone have the datasheet for > it online or willing to scan it in? SN76477N, http://rgvac.978.org/chips/sn76477datasheet.pdf > Background: I remember playing with it a *long* time ago, > and wanted to model it in software :-) I remember it well, it was the canine gonads until the AY3-8910 and it's ilk appeared. Cheers, Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Tue Dec 17 03:03:01 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Old TI analog sound chip; info? Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBBA@lif015.merlincommunications.com> > Anyone have the datasheet for > it online or willing to scan it in? There is also http://rgvac.978.org/chips/SN76477.pdf which is more an application note than data sheet. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Tue Dec 17 03:17:01 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: BIG problem with my Jupiter Ace Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBBB@lif015.merlincommunications.com> >> There is just no pleasing some people. 8^)= >> http://zx.dyndns.org/trastero/cosas/droy/jupiter/ >> You want the .pdf near the end. > Interesting how he got blue as a background when the real Ace used > black..... I would guess he's using an RGB monitor, but can't say for sure as babelfish stops translating half way down the page. Curses! Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Dec 17 03:26:00 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? References: <S.0000097832@mythtech.net> <1040097363.15659.111.camel@supermicro> <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212162302330.18243-100000@panix3.panix.com> Message-ID: <01ad01c2a5ae$ab2f1fc0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> > Was not the Osborne I so designed? ISTR, from the one I had, that > everything was on the front panel and the case was whole, unlike the It is, and there's even more on the front of the Executive: two serial RS-232s, an IEEE-488, external video and composite video. I think perhaps the PC Traveler had some sort of 25 pin port in the front. -W From tim at tim-mann.org Tue Dec 17 05:07:15 2002 From: tim at tim-mann.org (Tim Mann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Need information on TRSDOS 1.3 internals In-Reply-To: <20021211153323.10014.91358.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20021211153323.10014.91358.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20021217030005.384b270a.tim@tim-mann.org> Sellam Ismail wrote: > Are the TRSDOS 1.3 internals documented in any of the TRS-80 reference > manuals? As far as I know, Tandy never documented the on-disk data structures for Model III TRSDOS. We were stuck figuring them out for ourselves even in the old days. They did document the assembly language interface to the OS. There's a scan of the part of the Model III manual that deals with TRSDOS 1.3 user commands and assembly-language entry points on Wade Fincher's site: http://www2.asub.arknet.edu/wade/m3trsdos.pdf -- Tim Mann tim@tim-mann.org http://www.tim-mann.org/ From fauradon at frontiernet.net Tue Dec 17 06:28:01 2002 From: fauradon at frontiernet.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Looking for certain software packaging ($$$) References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212100145300.1077-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <002901c2a5d8$b02aa920$0264640a@auradon.com> Would any Commodore cassette software do? I think I have a c64 or vic 20 game that was packaged like that I have the infocom interactive fiction a Mind forever Voyaging that is packaged in that manner: a cover flap like a book, a game manual bound to the box, a clear plastic cover that protects the inside of the box (disk and accessories) the plastic cover is removale and at no time do you have to open the box to reach the contents. It is copyright 1985 Is that the packaging you are looking for? Francois ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" <vcf@siconic.com> To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" <cctalk@classiccmp.org>; "Bay Area Computer Collector List" <baccl@home.mcmanis.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 1:53 AM Subject: Looking for certain software packaging ($$$) > > I am searching out any retail software packaging that conforms to the > following description: > > The front cover of the packaging has a flap that opens up (like a book) to > reveal a manual or pamphlet inside. The flap must be part of the box > itself, and not part of a sleeve that slips over the box. > > I have Delrina WinFax Pro 3.0 which almost fits this description but the > flap is part of a sleeve that fits over the main box. > > Any software in question must have been published or put on the market > prior to March of 1996. One possible example may be Delrina WinFax Pro > 4.0 (which is what I was originally searching for a couple months back). > > If you have any software packaging that fits this description, please > contact me directly at <sellam@vintage.org>. > > There is a bounty for this! > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From dan at ekoan.com Tue Dec 17 06:33:01 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Old TI analog sound chip; info? In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212162001090.1146-100000@strudel.invalid.do main> References: <m18O6Sg-000IzIC@p850ug1> <m18O6Sg-000IzIC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021217073853.037b8c10@enigma> At 08:07 PM 12/16/02 -0600, you wrote: >I'm fairly sure Radio Shack at one time sold some of those >particular sound generator chips too. Yes, I have a SN94281 in a Radio Shack package. >I have the data sheet for the SN94281, but I'm not sure about the other >two. If it would be helpful, I can scan it. I've started to scan some of my old data sheets. The panels for the SN94281 can be found at http://www.decodesystems.com/old-ics.html Cheers, Dan http://www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From cbajpai at attbi.com Tue Dec 17 06:35:00 2002 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <OHENIDDKMMADIAHOLNMCAEIKCOAA.ernestls@attbi.com> Message-ID: <000f01c2a5c8$f4fa93e0$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Ernest...Out of curiosity, do you know the history behind the machine? Did you get it from the original owner? It's a great find! Thanks, Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ernest Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 12:23 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: 1977 Apple II for sale. > There are always items on Ebay that go for absurdly high prices. That DEC > book by Gordon Bell for example keeps going for $50 - $60 per copy. You > would think its hard to come by or something. Well, its not. A PDP 11/70 > front panel for $152.50, thats absurd. Only one person bids on a PDP 8/E > in pristine condition without any cards, so it goes for $500 while at > the same time a 8/E with a nice set of essential cards goes for $2,248. > Now thats absurd, and also explains how i'm able to get my 8's so cheaply. > Which is good, because I couldnt afford to buy even one 8/E at a $2,248 > price tag ;) > > Of course, my luck runs out when it comes to finding RK05's. > > But an Apple ][ going for more than the price of an 8/E boggles the mind. You do realize that what you are saying is your own opinion though, right? Also, you failed to understand the point that I was trying to make which is that each collector has their own idea of what is valuable, for reasons that you or I may not understand. To say that it's absurd for someone to pay more for something they want, than you would for something you want seems kind of absurd to me. Sure the 8/E may be more rare, or cool, or whatever than an Apple II with a low serial number but it's value is based on what you (the collector) are willing to pay. I wouldn't pay $4000.00 for a deluxe Altair but obviously there are a few folks out there who would. Nor would I pay $2248 for a PDP of any type or condition but it I don't become distressed if other people choose to. It boggles my mind to think that you/we collectors, having seen this all before, are even slightly surprised by this kind of thing anymore. There are several billion people on this planet, so I would say the odds are pretty good that at least two of them will, for whatever reasons, try very hard to get something that is fairly rare on that kind of scale. One more thing to consider is that most people would agree that Altair's are fairly rare but you can find them on ebay on a regular basis. If you don't see one there today then wait a day or two and you will. That doesn't seem all that rare to me, and yet people are still willing to pay more than $3k for them. How often do you see very early model Apple II's, in any condition? I don't remember ever seeing one like the computer I just sold. Sure, you can find Apple II's on ebay all the time but they are usually later revisions, and have II+ keyboards, and beat up cases, etc.. Savvy collectors know this, so they don't bid $3800 dollars for them but the computer that I just sold is not like that. What's more, there was no existing precedent for the value of something like it. To further beat a dead horse, consider that there are folks who are willing to spend millions for what they consider art. Things like paintings and sculptures sell for millions only because that is what some people are willing to pay. In my opinion, some computers are works of art, which can inspire the same emotional response in me that a fine sculpture can in other people. If I had an Altair, I wouldn't use it. I would display it like a painting or any other piece of fine art. Sadly, I can't afford either one of them so I don't think about it. The point is that the value of something like a painting, or an old computer is determined by the people who want it. In this case, the user base for the Apple II is larger than the one for the 8/E, so it would follow that there would be more people desiring to own an Apple II like the one I just sold. E. From cbajpai at attbi.com Tue Dec 17 06:40:01 2002 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: ABECLASSIC? was RE: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021216100433.5517d960@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001101c2a5c9$ab76e2e0$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> You should invite him to join the list...he might benefit from the knowledge, as well we could envy his purchases :-) -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Joe Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 10:05 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: ABECLASSIC? was RE: 1977 Apple II for sale. At 04:57 PM 12/15/02 -0500, you wrote: >I think it was the earliest serial # Apple II to go on sale (#2000 I >believe). The fact that it had document + in working condition was a >big plus. > >I'm not sure I would have paid $3800 though. > >Btw - Does anyone know who the guy at ebay user id 'abeclassic' is? Yes, I know him but I don't feel that I should give out his name without his permission. I've had several dealings with him and he seems to be a real upright guy. Joe From dan at ekoan.com Tue Dec 17 06:43:01 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Looking for certain software packaging ($$$) In-Reply-To: <002901c2a5d8$b02aa920$0264640a@auradon.com> References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212100145300.1077-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021217075031.04033c90@enigma> At 06:26 AM 12/17/02 -0800, you wrote: >Would any Commodore cassette software do? >I think I have a c64 or vic 20 game that was packaged like that Almost all of the Intellivision game cartridges were packaged like that as well. I don't know if that counts as "software" for Sellam's purposes or not. Cheers, Dan From foxvideo at wincom.net Tue Dec 17 07:10:00 2002 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Looking for certain software packaging ($$$) In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212100145300.1077-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021217080802.00b27ee8@mail.wincom.net> At 01:53 AM 10/12/2002 -0800, you wrote: >I am searching out any retail software packaging that conforms to the >following description: > >The front cover of the packaging has a flap that opens up (like a book) to >reveal a manual or pamphlet inside. The flap must be part of the box >itself, and not part of a sleeve that slips over the box. > >I have Delrina WinFax Pro 3.0 which almost fits this description but the >flap is part of a sleeve that fits over the main box. > >Any software in question must have been published or put on the market >prior to March of 1996. One possible example may be Delrina WinFax Pro >4.0 (which is what I was originally searching for a couple months back). > >If you have any software packaging that fits this description, please >contact me directly at <sellam@vintage.org>. > >There is a bounty for this! > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * Hi, Sellam: The Delrina Communications Suite 2.1 has a flap attached to the box that swings open, but when you open it you only get two pages of product description. Regards Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Tue Dec 17 07:14:01 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 In-Reply-To: <00be01c2a594$18f8da20$1843cd18@D73KSM11> References: <m18O8lT-0003ffC@nomad> <00be01c2a594$18f8da20$1843cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <1040130961.21676.3.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> On Tue, 2002-12-17 at 01:18, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > It's close to a 5100 -- it's a 5110 model 3 (aka 5120) which looks a lot like a > System 23/Datamaster. > I saw an IBM 5120 in person once. AJ Rose gave a presentation and demo on it at a meeting of the NMSU ACM sometime in the late seventies. I've wanted one ever since. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From dfnr2 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 17 07:22:00 2002 From: dfnr2 at yahoo.com (Dave) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. (ABECLASSIC) In-Reply-To: <20021216165100.61502.73812.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20021217132409.81580.qmail@web9403.mail.yahoo.com> "Chandra Bajpai" <cbajpai@attbi.com> wrote: > Btw - Does anyone know who the guy at ebay user id 'abeclassic' is? I > wish I had his deep pockets...he bids on a lot of things and definitely > outspends everyone. Some times I wonder if it's worth bidding on if he > his even thinking about the same item. DEFINITELY continue to bid your price on items you want. If you lose, so be it, but make him pay at least that much, or he won't even have to use any discretion when selecting auctions. Dave __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Dec 17 08:04:00 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? In-Reply-To: <3DFEABBD.A1C072F5@bigvalley.net> from "Larry Anderson" at Dec 16, 02 08:44:58 pm Message-ID: <200212171404.JAA13489@wordstock.com> And thusly Larry Anderson spake: > > Heh.. While looking at a Transactor Magazine tonite (fomr something > else), I had noticed this bit in the new Products Section (from January 1986) > > Commodore 64 Remote Keyboard Conversion Kit > > > (from page 77 of the Jan '86 Transactor Vol.6,Iss.4) > This page can be found (with a lot of other complete issues) at: http://cbm.csbruce.com/~csbruce/cbm/transactor/v6/i4/p077.jpg The start page is here: http://www.csbruce.com/~csbruce/cbm/ Cheers, Bryan From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Dec 17 08:16:00 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? Message-ID: <EFCC02DCB43BE04989267F883F7237870B4462@denmails1.jdedwards.com> Yes, pin 7 of the modem port is for +12V. The pinout of the DE-9P (except for some early boards with a female DE-9) is: 1 Gnd 2 TXD 3 (not used) 4 MSB (Modem Status Bit) 5 CTS 6 RXD 7 +12V 8 MCB (Modem Control Bit) 9 RI The Tech manual goes on to say all signals are TTL, and the interface is "extremely vulnerable to damage through misuse." Also, some modems with RS-232C connectors need an external adapter box so that the OI isn't damaged. modem port Bob -----Original Message----- From: Gary Hildebrand [mailto:ghldbrd@ccp.com] Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 11:33 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Computers with ports coming out the front? Lawrence Walker wrote: > > Yup, the whole shebang. External Battery, keyboard, printer, video, > serial RS232 and Modem. BTW what was the difference between the > modem and RS232 ports ? > > Lawrence Besides number of pins . . . . I think the 9 pin Modem port was for the accessory modem and has DC feeding the box that fits in the disk bay. The RS232 could be configured to drive a serial printer which was the common interface back then, especially on daisywheels. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Dec 17 08:27:01 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Ebay [was: Re: The ACE is recovering :-)] Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AFF4@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >rating, 99% positive. The problem? He's given me a shipping price of EUR2.55 >per batch of three chips, plus EUR1 for three ROMs. I've ordered six ROMs, >so that comes to EUR3.55 x 2 = 7.10. But he seems to be ignoring my mails >requesting a postage price for me. Bear in mind I'm in England (ho hum). The What's the problem? If you are happy about the total price (7.10euro) for the ROMs just pop 8 euro into an envelope with a letter wrapped round them indicating where you want them posted to. Include an email address and I expect he'll get back to you if there is a problem. This has always worked for me ... both with Europe and the US. Antonio From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Dec 17 08:32:00 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Looking for certain software packaging ($$$) Message-ID: <EFCC02DCB43BE04989267F883F7237870B4464@denmails1.jdedwards.com> ISTR that the Traveling Software word processor (software on cassette tape) I bought for a TRS Model 100 was packaged like that. I no longer have it, but the date was early 90's. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Dan Veeneman [mailto:dan@ekoan.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 6:52 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Looking for certain software packaging ($$$) At 06:26 AM 12/17/02 -0800, you wrote: >Would any Commodore cassette software do? >I think I have a c64 or vic 20 game that was packaged like that Almost all of the Intellivision game cartridges were packaged like that as well. I don't know if that counts as "software" for Sellam's purposes or not. Cheers, Dan From avickers at solutionengineers.com Tue Dec 17 08:34:00 2002 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:40 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0212162136430.21432-100000@crash.cts.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021217013538.0190eea0@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021217115113.0180fa18@slave> It's my lucky day! It turns out to be a fault with the connection lead - swapping out the original with a spare and everything is hunkydory again! Huzzah! Thanks to all for the offers of help. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Tue Dec 17 08:49:01 2002 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: RS232 or Parallel port based keyboards and joysticks References: <F6IidtTOafCEDtuWRFA000136f0@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3DFF3A03.528E852B@comcast.net> "Ram & Suganthi M." wrote: > > Hi, > > Does anyone know where I can get a keyboard that either plugs into an RS232 > / RS422 or Parallel Port? Ditto for a joystick. I want to connect a > keyboard to a transputer array for stand-alone operation and I already have > RS232 / Parallel ports on the array. > > Thanks, > > Ram I don't know how much you want to spend, but you might want to check out www.ctielectronics.com. They make all sorts of industrial keyboards and mice for all sorts of computers and applications. Well not traditional mice; they are trackball, joystick, and keypad mice. They normally deal with other suppliers (in quantity) under contract; but they might have something in-stock to fit your needs that they could sell you. -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From dtwright at uiuc.edu Tue Dec 17 08:58:00 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212130309360.11998-100000@siconic.com> References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212130309360.11998-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <20021217150040.GJ3558038@uiuc.edu> Most 10/100 rackmount network switches have all their ports on the front, and the big ones can certainly be considered fully valid computers. Vintage Computer Festival said: > > I am trying to identify various computers that have had their ports > situated in the front of the chassis as opposed to the back. > > The Atari 800 would be one example (game ports in the front). Are there > any other examples anyone can think of, especially where peripheral (disk, > printer) or perhaps network ports are concerned? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Dec 17 09:06:00 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: RS232 or Parallel port based keyboards and joysticks Message-ID: <EFCC02DCB43BE04989267F883F7237870B4465@denmails1.jdedwards.com> The Palmtop Paper's Online Store has KeyMate adaptors and software that allow any PS/2-plug PC keyboard to be used with the HP 200LX's serial port or IR port (under MS-DOS 5.0). $69.95 +s/h. http://www.palmtoppaper.com/store/asp/product.asp?product=98 "Ram & Suganthi M." wrote: > > Hi, > > Does anyone know where I can get a keyboard that either plugs into an RS232 > / RS422 or Parallel Port? Ditto for a joystick. I want to connect a > keyboard to a transputer array for stand-alone operation and I already have > RS232 / Parallel ports on the array. > > Thanks, > > Ram From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Tue Dec 17 09:10:01 2002 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Little score, & possible VAX 630 rescue... References: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0212161734230.94591-100000@crash.cts.com> Message-ID: <3DFF3EEB.F4EDF18@comcast.net> Don Maslin wrote: > > On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > On the way home today, I decided to stop at the local Goodwill, in my > > (never-ending?) search for Mac ADB keyboard cables. Well, I picked up a > > working Mac SE/30 w/ keyboard for $5.00, and a 18" x 30" Guiness > > chalkboard for $12.00. No keyboard cable with the Mac, though... Sigh... > > The search continues... > > Are keyboard cables and keyboards that difficult to find. One of the > local thrifts usually has some. Which keyboard is preferred? The short > one or the longer more PC-like one? > - don Well, for me in the New Haven, CT area it is. Been checking the thrift shops for a few weeks now. I haven't really bothered checking on-line yet, since it's not that important, and the on-line price would likely exceed their value (in my eyes, right now). I'm looking to find the 2' -3' long ones... -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From allain at panix.com Tue Dec 17 09:21:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? References: <m18O6Xa-000IzIC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <000201c2a5e0$23bf6b80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> A few more: MicroVax III, everything's out the front, including the power cord. Palm series, probably the whole line, when lying on a table A rack-mount analog computer, if you really want ports. John A. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Dec 17 09:23:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: 1977 Apple II for sale. In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212161222150.24675-100000@siconic.com> from Sellam Ismail at "Dec 16, 2 12:23:59 pm" Message-ID: <200212171535.HAA11052@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > He had to talk the guy down in price but he got it and went home > and put it back on, relieved he didn't have to sit down to pee anymore. "... for a dollar ninety-nine!" -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but I need to clean my toilet brush." -------- From allain at panix.com Tue Dec 17 09:47:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Valuable MicroVAX-II (?) References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212162147330.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> Message-ID: <001e01c2a5e3$c15aae60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Who'd a thunk it? As far as I've heard, the RD54 rebadge is the largest MFM drive ever available. If you want to stay with that class of storage, it would be the best. Too bad it has no O/S. I got my II with 2 RD54's and an infinite liscence for $35. I had luckily found it at the end of a Flea Market. It had been successively marked down from $150 through the day. It's worth *much* more than $35 to me now. John A. From tim.myers at protasis.co.uk Tue Dec 17 10:26:01 2002 From: tim.myers at protasis.co.uk (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Need a home for some HP gear - UK. Message-ID: <001f01c2a5e8$fce0c5a0$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> I need to find a home for 2 HP Laboratory Automation Systems. They realy need to be moved before the end of the year (or I need a firm commitment to remove them very early in the new year), or they're going to have to go in the skip, much as this pains me. The systems are HP3350 Laboratory Automation Systems, each consists of: HP-1000 F Series Computer, HP 12990B Memory Extender HP 12979B 1/O Extender HP 7970E Tape Drive 2xHP 7925 Disk Drives Each system is housed in 2 19" racks. I also have 1xHP2608A printer, 3xHP2393A terminals, and an HP-1000 A700 machine (also in a 19" rack), lots of documentation, and tapes. You'll have to collect them, or pay my costs for hiring a van and a mate to deliver (within a reasonable distance) them to you (which I'm happy to do over the Christmas Period), and they'll need to go on the ground floor, unless you have a lift. I'm not making any charge for these systems. Collection from Ellesmere Port, Wirral. If you need pictures etc., I can mail then to you. You can call me on 07980 859 383 to discuss if required. I've not much time at the moment, so I can't monitor the list, so please email me at tim.myers@protasisREMOVEME.co.uk if you're interested. I'd hate for these to go in the skip, but I have to clear the place theyr'e in, and have no storage of my own. I'm also Ebaying my PDP-11/73s complete with VT-320s. Tim. From kth at srv.net Tue Dec 17 10:32:01 2002 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Valuable MicroVAX-II (?) References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212162147330.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212170007130.7673-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> Message-ID: <3DFF55E2.7080904@srv.net> Tothwolf wrote: >On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > > > >>Wow, a MicroVAX II (BA123 9MB, 3x RD54, 1x TK50, 1x RX50) is going for >>over $300, and there is still a day left on the auction. >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2080763459 >> >>I'd expect that for one with a SCSI Qbus module, but this system seems >>rather vanilla, except for the multiple RD54s. >> >>Who'd a thunk it? >> >> > >Certainly not me... The MicroVAX II thats been giving me fits was >originally a "discard" that I just happened to ask about. The former owner >was glad to get rid of it. It more or less came as a bonus with the SGI 4D >boxes I bought/hauled off. > >This sure appears to be an example of an overzealous eBay bidder... > >That MicroVAX II does appear to have a fair complement of boards based on >the photo of the rear bulkhead, but there isn't a photo of the inside of >the card cage, so some of those boards could have been removed. > >Anyone have any ideas as to why most BA123s are missing the door that >covers the operator's panel? Is it just easily broken and lost? > > I think they were shipped broken. You had to be very careful using that door, or the pegs (hinges) would break off. Since all the intresting buttons were under the door, it needed to be opened fairly frequently. >-Toth > > > From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Dec 17 11:06:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Ebay [was: Re: The ACE is recovering :-)] References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AFF4@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> Message-ID: <002701c2a5ef$1c307620$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> My problem is that the shipping price he's given me is for Germany... I think I'm going to stuff EUR8 in an envelope and send it (like you said), it's the easiest way to get this sorted out... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Dec 17 11:18:00 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Need a home for some HP gear - UK. References: <001f01c2a5e8$fce0c5a0$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> Message-ID: <000701c2a5f0$757178a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Re: > The systems are HP3350 Laboratory Automation Systems, each consists of: > HP-1000 F Series Computer, > HP 12990B Memory Extender > HP 12979B 1/O Extender > HP 7970E Tape Drive > 2xHP 7925 Disk Drives > > Each system is housed in 2 19" racks. NICE!!!!!! I'd love the two 7925 drives in working condition, but alas, I'm not up for getting them from the UK! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 17 12:30:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Looking for certain software packaging ($$$) In-Reply-To: <002901c2a5d8$b02aa920$0264640a@auradon.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212170229070.27488-100000@siconic.com> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Sue & Francois wrote: > Would any Commodore cassette software do? > I think I have a c64 or vic 20 game that was packaged like that > I have the infocom interactive fiction a Mind forever Voyaging that is > packaged in that manner: > a cover flap like a book, a game manual bound to the box, a clear plastic > cover that protects the inside of the box (disk and accessories) the plastic > cover is removale and at no time do you have to open the box to reach the > contents. It is copyright 1985 > Is that the packaging you are looking for? Thanks to all who submitted suggestions but I've had what I needed for a week now. The lag in my message being posted to the list was unanticipated. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 17 12:32:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Looking for certain software packaging ($$$) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021217075031.04033c90@enigma> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212170233220.27488-100000@siconic.com> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Dan Veeneman wrote: > At 06:26 AM 12/17/02 -0800, you wrote: > >Would any Commodore cassette software do? > >I think I have a c64 or vic 20 game that was packaged like that > > Almost all of the Intellivision game cartridges were packaged > like that as well. I don't know if that counts as "software" > for Sellam's purposes or not. Not quite. The manuals were tucked away into a pocket on the inside of the cover. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 17 12:38:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: OT: Detachable Penis (was Re: 1977 Apple II for sale.) In-Reply-To: <200212171535.HAA11052@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212170239070.27488-100000@siconic.com> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > He had to talk the guy down in price but he got it and went home > > and put it back on, relieved he didn't have to sit down to pee anymore. > > "... for a dollar ninety-nine!" You must be thinking of a different song. He talked him down from $22 to $17. Lyrics here: http://www.lyricsfreak.com/k/king-missile/16758.htm :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Dec 17 12:48:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Ebay [was: Re: The ACE is recovering :-)] In-Reply-To: "Philip Pemberton" <philpem@dsl.pipex.com> "Re: Ebay [was: Re: The ACE is recovering :-)]" (Dec 17, 17:09) References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AFF4@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> <002701c2a5ef$1c307620$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <10212171843.ZM8856@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 17, 17:09, Philip Pemberton wrote: > My problem is that the shipping price he's given me is for Germany... > I think I'm going to stuff EUR8 in an envelope and send it (like you said), > it's the easiest way to get this sorted out... Postage Austria <--> UK isn't much different from Austria <--> (anywhere else in EC), so I'd just send him EUR8 and see what happens. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From cb at mythtech.net Tue Dec 17 12:50:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: OT: Detachable Penis (was Re: 1977 Apple II for sale.) Message-ID: <S.0000098235@mythtech.net> >> > He had to talk the guy down in price but he got it and went home >> > and put it back on, relieved he didn't have to sit down to pee anymore. >> >> "... for a dollar ninety-nine!" > >You must be thinking of a different song. He talked him down from $22 to >$17. Seymore Crelbourn bought Audry 2 "for a dollar ninety-nine" -chris <http://www.mythtech.net> From tim.myers at protasis.co.uk Tue Dec 17 13:06:00 2002 From: tim.myers at protasis.co.uk (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Need a home for some HP gear - UK. In-Reply-To: <20021217180001.75137.32411.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000101c2a5ff$c14da550$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> Here are some pictures for those of you who maybe interested : http://www.computer-museum.org.uk/images/P0001355.jpg http://www.computer-museum.org.uk/images/P0001356.jpg http://www.computer-museum.org.uk/images/P0001357.jpg http://www.computer-museum.org.uk/images/P0001358.jpg http://www.computer-museum.org.uk/images/P0001364.jpg http://www.computer-museum.org.uk/images/P0001360.jpg Tim. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Dec 17 13:15:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? In-Reply-To: <01ad01c2a5ae$ab2f1fc0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212171110070.22941-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> On a machine that doesn't sustain much floppy activity, (or uses external drives), if you face the disk drives towards the back, then the ports on your PC are out front where God intended. From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Dec 17 13:25:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Need a home for some HP gear - UK. In-Reply-To: <000101c2a5ff$c14da550$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> Message-ID: <002701c2a602$4e4a41f0$020010ac@k4jcw> What's the rack piece with the keyswitches in this pictures http://www.computer-museum.org.uk/images/P0001357.jpg ? And why keys at all? --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tim Myers > Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 14:09 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Need a home for some HP gear - UK. > > > Here are some pictures for those of you who maybe interested : > http://www.computer-museum.org.uk/images/P0001355.jpg > http://www.computer-museum.org.uk/images/P0001356.jpg > http://www.computer-museum.org.uk/images/P0001357.jpg > http://www.computer-museum.org.uk/images/P0001358.jpg > http://www.computer-museum.org.uk/images/P0001364.jpg > http://www.computer-museum.org.uk/images/P0001360.jpg > > > Tim. From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 17 13:43:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212171110070.22941-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212170343350.27754-100000@siconic.com> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On a machine that doesn't sustain much floppy activity, > (or uses external drives), if you face the disk drives towards the back, > then the ports on your PC are out front where God intended. Indeed, a friend of mine who owns a business that makes rackmount systems made a special model for a customer where they pretty much did this. They put the mounting flange on the back of the box, making it the front, and added cut-outs for the disk drives. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Dec 17 14:28:01 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Need a home for some HP gear - UK. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 17 Dec 2002 16:26:00 GMT." <001f01c2a5e8$fce0c5a0$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> Message-ID: <200212171849.SAA05929@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Tim Myers" <tim.myers@protasis.co.uk> said: > I need to find a home for 2 HP Laboratory Automation Systems. They realy > need to be moved before the end of the year (or I need a firm commitment > to remove them very early in the new year), or they're going to have to > go in the skip, much as this pains me. > [snip] > You'll have to collect them, or pay my costs for hiring a van and a mate > to deliver (within a reasonable distance) them to you (which I'm happy > to do over the Christmas Period), and they'll need to go on the ground > floor, unless you have a lift. I'm not making any charge for these > systems. > > Collection from Ellesmere Port, Wirral. > I really, *really* wish I had somewhere to put these...I'm just a few miles away (in Moreton) - but if I tried to move that lot in *I'd* have to move out :-( -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue Dec 17 15:49:00 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Need a home for some HP gear - UK. References: <001f01c2a5e8$fce0c5a0$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> Message-ID: <3DFF9C14.50608@gifford.co.uk> Tim Myers wrote: > The systems are HP3350 Laboratory Automation Systems, each consists of: > HP-1000 F Series Computer, > HP 12990B Memory Extender > HP 12979B 1/O Extender > HP 7970E Tape Drive > 2xHP 7925 Disk Drives I have a gadget in the garage that I think has some connection with these. It's an HP 6942A Multiprogrammer, and it's mounted in a rack-style case just like those shown in the photos of this HP gear. Can anyone use it? Does anyone know what is does? Located in the frozen North of Bristol, UK. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Tue Dec 17 15:54:00 2002 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Computer Audio Tape Formats Message-ID: <1fnc8ai.bnm28sitbctoM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> I am looking for information regarding how various computers wrote information to audio tapes. For example, the Tandy Color Computer wrote ones and zeros to audio tape in the following format: 'one bit': one sinusoidal cycle @ 2400 Hertz. 'zero bit': one sinusoidal cycle @ 1200 Hertz. The bit rate is variable on a CoCo tape. But averages to about 1500 bits per second. I am contemplating creating an audio tape anaylzer to help me recover some data. I would like to make the program useful to thoes outside the Color Computer community. But first I need to understand all of the different methods used to put data on audio tape. -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com From curt at atarimuseum.com Tue Dec 17 16:18:25 2002 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Atari 8bit "Ethercart" Project References: <m18O6Xa-000IzIC@p850ug1> <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212162007520.1146-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> Message-ID: <001001c2a57d$714a6070$0b01010a@cvendel> For anyone who is interested in assisting with this project to give Atari 8bit computers ethernet & tcp/ip capabilities, please join the group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atari_ethercart So far uIP has been ported over to the Atari 8bits and has been tested and works with R: device drivers. C64's using the TFE (The Final Ethernet) have successfully achieved ethernet connectivity and more, so based on the same hardware we want to design a CS8900 based Ethernet controller to fit into a standard Atari ROM program cartridge case and incorporate the needed hardware and also look into having the device driver and uIP stack load into memory from an onboard eprom as well. Curt From vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu Tue Dec 17 16:19:19 2002 From: vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu (vassilip@dsl.cis.upenn.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? Message-ID: <200212171022.gBHAMt0o009131@codex.cis.upenn.edu> I am amazed that Tony didn't mention this, but the BBC micro had a number of expansion connectors under the keyboard facing towards the front of the machine. To access these ports, you had to lift the whole machine and plug IDC terminated ribbon cables. As I recall, you had the 1MHz expansion bus, the printer port, the Tube (2nd processor bus) and a disk interface connector. You also had a power output connector allowing you to power external devices (e.g. external floppies). The HP Integral PC also had two connectors on the front. These were HIL connectors for low-speed input devices (keyboard, mouse, digitizing tablet, etc). **vp From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Dec 17 16:19:53 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212130309360.11998-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEAEMJCFAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival > Sent: 13 December 2002 11:12 > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? > > I am trying to identify various computers that have had their ports > situated in the front of the chassis as opposed to the back. > > The Atari 800 would be one example (game ports in the front). Are there > any other examples anyone can think of, especially where peripheral (disk, > printer) or perhaps network ports are concerned? Off the top of my head: Atari 400 (game ports) Amstrad PCW9512 (keyboard) Amstrad PCW10 (keyboard) Amstrad PCW16 (keyboard) Amstrad MegaPC (game controllers) Apple LISA (keyboard) BBC Micro (cheating slightly since they were underneath the machine, but still at the front) CBM PET 8096SK (keyboard) CBM B700 (keyboard) and probably all other seperate-keyboard PETs can't think of any more for now. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From trestivo at concentric.net Tue Dec 17 16:20:27 2002 From: trestivo at concentric.net (Thom Restivo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Another Decmate III available Message-ID: <LOBBLGPOLKHLIKMNDENPKEKACPAA.trestivo@concentric.net> To all, the first Decmate III sold on Ebay, another one is now posted. If your interested take a look at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=179&item=2082422826 thanks, and happy holidays to all! From ram_suganthi at hotmail.com Tue Dec 17 16:21:01 2002 From: ram_suganthi at hotmail.com (Ram & Suganthi M.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: RS232 or Parallel port based keyboards and joysticks Message-ID: <F148q4gtopWd7KKQpQq000006ae@hotmail.com> I found the following website that basically does what I need using a SUN Keyboard: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~vojtech/input/adapters.html As for joysticks, is the gameport joysticks a version of an RS232? Is it possible to convert gameport to RS232 signals? Thanks for the responses... Ram _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From freddy at kotelna.sk Tue Dec 17 16:21:36 2002 From: freddy at kotelna.sk (Adrien Farkas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Apple Mac SE/30 monitor available? Message-ID: <20021217195457.GB13600@kotol.kotelna.sk> Hello again, perhaps a bit uncommon question, but does anyone in (preferrably middle) Europe have a 9" crt tube for Mac SE/30? I suppose it's the same as in SE, the box definitely looks the same. I've broken mine by accident, and really would like to use this box ;) Thanks in advance, -- freddy ...for more info 'finger freddy@kotol.kotelna.sk' From pegran at online.no Tue Dec 17 16:22:11 2002 From: pegran at online.no (Per Granaune) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Sinclair QL Message-ID: <56FD19CC-1200-11D7-B293-000393019B74@online.no> Hello. After having stumbled accross the page http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2002-October/003501.html, I wonder if you have any Sinclair QLs left, what state they are in, and how much they cost. Regards, Per Granaune From ojw at dircon.co.uk Tue Dec 17 16:23:00 2002 From: ojw at dircon.co.uk (Oliver Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Computer Audio Tape Formats In-Reply-To: <1fnc8ai.bnm28sitbctoM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> References: <1fnc8ai.bnm28sitbctoM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <200212172223.20497.ojw@dircon.co.uk> I vaguely remember an old standard format for this kind of thing called Kansas City (for some reason... perhaps someone else can enlighten!). A swift google search turned up http://www.alphalink.com.au/~edsa/ which has a utility which decodes this apparently. No connection to the site and haven't tried it myself I must admit. Cheers Oliver On Tuesday 17 December 2002 9:50 pm, tim lindner wrote: > I am looking for information regarding how various computers wrote > information to audio tapes. > > For example, the Tandy Color Computer wrote ones and zeros to audio tape > in the following format: > > 'one bit': one sinusoidal cycle @ 2400 Hertz. > 'zero bit': one sinusoidal cycle @ 1200 Hertz. > > The bit rate is variable on a CoCo tape. But averages to about 1500 bits > per second. > > I am contemplating creating an audio tape anaylzer to help me recover > some data. I would like to make the program useful to thoes outside the > Color Computer community. But first I need to understand all of the > different methods used to put data on audio tape. From glenslick at hotmail.com Tue Dec 17 16:28:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Computer Audio Tape Formats Message-ID: <F154qmvcMU1IcgWUP5t0000a9fe@hotmail.com> Here's one: http://www.kim-1.com/usrman.htm#E >From: tlindner@ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org (Classic Computers) >Subject: Computer Audio Tape Formats >Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 13:50:31 -0800 > >I am looking for information regarding how various computers wrote >information to audio tapes. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From computermuseum at pandora.be Tue Dec 17 16:44:00 2002 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 In-Reply-To: <20021217012621.DLRR20640.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <NEBBIIKKPJIBINKJOILLOEPPCHAA.computermuseum@pandora.be> Hi Mike I will move it to my heated house and will clean it up and will treasure it.... Thank you for the advise. Michel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens Mike Verzonden: dinsdag 17 december 2002 2:26 Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: Re: IBM 5120 On Sunday 15 December 2002 17:18, Computermuseum wrote: > Hi, > > I'm rather new inhere. > I've got into my garage an IBM 5120 machine with his printer and an > external diskette unit with 8 inch flops. > I've got also all documentation and technical documentation of it > together with all operation disks. > It's running on APL (A Program Language) and it is working. > > Does someone know if this is a machine that is worth something? Anything that can run APL is a treasure! It should be displayed in a place of prominence, and guarded like the Rosetta stone. From msell at ontimesupport.com Tue Dec 17 16:44:39 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Computer Audio Tape Formats In-Reply-To: <1fnc8ai.bnm28sitbctoM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021217164201.03208e88@127.0.0.1> Tim, I believe that many different computers used the same or very similar method to record data to cassette. I'm pretty sure that the Atari 8-bit and the Commodore VIC-20/C-64 tape recorders used the same method (FSK). Weren't the same frequencies used for FSK/Teletype ? The Commodore "Datasette" used 300 baud as the rate (I'm pretty sure). The Atari cassette recorders put a pause between data packets - it was very noticeable when you listened to the audio. I don't remember the Commodore format putting in the long delay. Just some food for thought.... - Matt At 01:50 PM 12/17/2002 -0800, you wrote: >I am looking for information regarding how various computers wrote >information to audio tapes. > >For example, the Tandy Color Computer wrote ones and zeros to audio tape >in the following format: > >'one bit': one sinusoidal cycle @ 2400 Hertz. >'zero bit': one sinusoidal cycle @ 1200 Hertz. > >The bit rate is variable on a CoCo tape. But averages to about 1500 bits >per second. > >I am contemplating creating an audio tape anaylzer to help me recover >some data. I would like to make the program useful to thoes outside the >Color Computer community. But first I need to understand all of the >different methods used to put data on audio tape. > >-- >tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021217/8a2138b4/attachment.html From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Dec 17 16:48:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Valuable MicroVAX-II (?) In-Reply-To: <no.id> from "Kevin Handy" at Dec 17, 2002 09:50:42 AM Message-ID: <200212172250.gBHMoq828299@shell1.aracnet.com> > >>I'd expect that for one with a SCSI Qbus module, but this system seems > >>rather vanilla, except for the multiple RD54s. > >> > >>Who'd a thunk it? As has been pointed out, someone is most likely after the 3 RD54's. The thing to remember is that there are still systems being used commercially, or by the Government that use these drives. The cost of qualifying different hardware to move to SCSI far outweighs the cost of obtaining RD54's. > >Anyone have any ideas as to why most BA123s are missing the door that > >covers the operator's panel? Is it just easily broken and lost? > > > > > I think they were shipped broken. You had to be very careful using > that door, or the pegs (hinges) would break off. Since all the intresting > buttons were under the door, it needed to be opened fairly frequently. I had one that was intact. The top peg that holds it in place and makes up the hinge is now broken. I'm still ticked off at my Mother over that one. I had the panel off, and she knocked it over on a hardwood floor. The result, the peg broke off. :^( That was a few years ago, I've still got the peg, and one of these years I'll try and patch it. Zane From spc at conman.org Tue Dec 17 17:07:01 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: (OT?) Clogged email server (was Re: IBM 5150 for sale) In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212161225590.24675-100000@siconic.com> from "Sellam Ismail" at Dec 16, 2002 12:26:23 PM Message-ID: <200212172309.SAA24971@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Sellam Ismail once stated: > > > How come a slew of my messages got held up in queue for almost a week? > Was it on my side or the CC server side? I'm experiencing the same thing, so it may be the CC server. -spc (Good! It's just not me then ... ) From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Dec 17 17:07:49 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Amiga and X-windows Message-ID: <3DFFBBC5.DACACA01@ccp.com> Thanks to a post here by Curt Nelson, I am the proud owner now of some interesting Amiga goodies . . . . I have a question to all those Amigaphiles out there: I have a copy of X Window System by GfxBase. It looks like a graphic terminal emulation for *nix systems, which looks like a neat toy for playing with my Linux box. Have any of you ever played with this, or even seen it in action? I do have a 10 Base 2 Ethernet card for the PC here, but other than that, my networking experience is zero. Looks like I'm going to be learning some new stuff over the next few months. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Tue Dec 17 17:21:00 2002 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Computer Audio Tape Formats In-Reply-To: <200212172223.20497.ojw@dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <1fncd3m.thy2f41650d1cM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> > I vaguely remember an old standard format for this kind of thing called Kansas > City Hmm... 'zero bit': 4 (square?) cycles at 1200 Hz. 'one bit': 8 (square?) cycles at 2400 Hz. Both are the same length. -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Tue Dec 17 17:21:53 2002 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Computer Audio Tape Formats In-Reply-To: <F154qmvcMU1IcgWUP5t0000a9fe@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <1fncche.1csu0w117sb9gM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> > Here's one: > > http://www.kim-1.com/usrman.htm#E Ahh, this is really diffferent! This uses: '0 bit' - 18 square cycles at 3700 Hz. 6 square cycles at 2400 Hz. '1 bit" - 9 square cycles at 3700 Hz. 12 square cycles at 2400 Hz. Both are the same length (7.452 microseconds). As you can probably tell, I am currently anaylizing this at a very low level. -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Dec 17 17:50:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Valuable MicroVAX-II (?) In-Reply-To: <200212172250.gBHMoq828299@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200212172250.gBHMoq828299@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212171750540.2246-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > I'd expect that for one with a SCSI Qbus module, but this system > > > > seems rather vanilla, except for the multiple RD54s. > > > > > > > > Who'd a thunk it? > > As has been pointed out, someone is most likely after the 3 RD54's. > The thing to remember is that there are still systems being used > commercially, or by the Government that use these drives. The cost of > qualifying different hardware to move to SCSI far outweighs the cost of > obtaining RD54's. That certainly makes sense, though I had never thought of the RD54 as being worth much, since after all, it is MFM. > > > Anyone have any ideas as to why most BA123s are missing the door > > > that covers the operator's panel? Is it just easily broken and lost? > > > > I think they were shipped broken. You had to be very careful using > > that door, or the pegs (hinges) would break off. Since all the > > intresting buttons were under the door, it needed to be opened fairly > > frequently. > > I had one that was intact. The top peg that holds it in place and makes > up the hinge is now broken. I'm still ticked off at my Mother over that > one. I had the panel off, and she knocked it over on a hardwood floor. > The result, the peg broke off. :^( That was a few years ago, I've still > got the peg, and one of these years I'll try and patch it. I recently fixed a few cracks in the plastic trim on my BA123. It seems to be made of ABS, but I'm not 100% sure. In any case, Methylene Chloride certainly did the trick, and the plastic trim on my BA123 looks quite nice now. Of course, the door for the operator's panel is missing, but I guess that is quite common ;) Anyone have an extra drive control panel for the front operators' panel? My BA123 is missing one, and I'd like to replace it. I know some complete front panels have come up on the list in the past, so maybe they are still floating around in parts boxes. -Toth From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Dec 17 17:53:01 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Computer Audio Tape Formats In-Reply-To: tlindner@ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) "Computer Audio Tape Formats" (Dec 17, 13:50) References: <1fnc8ai.bnm28sitbctoM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <10212172355.ZM9121@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 17, 13:50, tim lindner wrote: > I am looking for information regarding how various computers wrote > information to audio tapes. > I am contemplating creating an audio tape anaylzer to help me recover > some data. I would like to make the program useful to thoes outside the > Color Computer community. But first I need to understand all of the > different methods used to put data on audio tape. Look up "Kansas City" and "CUTS" on the web... many machines used some derivative. For 300 baud: logic 0 is 4 cycles of a 1.2kHz tone logic 1 is 8 cycles of a 2.4kHz tone lead-in is 2.4kHz, followed by a zero byte Similarly for 1200 baud but fewer cycles. CUTS (Computer Users Tape Interface) was derived from KC format, which was so called because it came out of a meeting held in Kansas City in 1975. It's backwards compatible. Also look up Don Tarbell's system. I can't remember what the tones were, but it's about 600 baud, IIRC. None of this tells you about the format of the data, of course -- block headers (if any), checksums/CRCs, etc. That tended to vary. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Dec 17 17:56:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? In-Reply-To: vassilip@dsl.cis.upenn.edu "Re: Computers with ports coming out the front?" (Dec 17, 5:22) References: <200212171022.gBHAMt0o009131@codex.cis.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <10212172359.ZM9132@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 17, 5:22, vassilip@dsl.cis.upenn.edu wrote: > I am amazed that Tony didn't mention this, but the BBC micro had a number > of expansion connectors under the keyboard facing towards the front of > the machine. To access these ports, you had to lift the whole machine > and plug IDC terminated ribbon cables. As I recall, you had the 1MHz > expansion bus, the printer port, the Tube (2nd processor bus) and a > disk interface connector. You also had a power output connector allowing > you to power external devices (e.g. external floppies). >From left to right, 34-pin floppy interface, 26-pin parallel printer, 20-pin user port, 34-pin 1MHz bus, 40-pin Tube (second processor interface). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Dec 17 17:58:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Computer Audio Tape Formats Message-ID: <200212180000.QAA03265@clulw009.amd.com> >From: tlindner@ix.netcom.com > >> Here's one: >> >> http://www.kim-1.com/usrman.htm#E > >Ahh, this is really diffferent! > >This uses: > >'0 bit' - 18 square cycles at 3700 Hz. > 6 square cycles at 2400 Hz. > >'1 bit" - 9 square cycles at 3700 Hz. > 12 square cycles at 2400 Hz. > >Both are the same length (7.452 microseconds). > >As you can probably tell, I am currently anaylizing this at a very low >level. > >-- >tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com > Hi Here is one that is even a little different still. It is what is called Manchester encoding, using biphase clocking. You don't indicate 1 or 0, you indicate a change by a quick clock and no change by a long clock. It looks something like this: ___ _ ___ _ |___| |_| |_| |______ Depending on past history, this might be: 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 or 1 1 0 0 1 1 1 This is the type of encoding used on my Poly88 for what they call PolyPhase. This runs at 2400 baud. There is a standard called Byte format that uses 300 baud and the two tones 1200 and 2400. Besides the type of encoding, you also need to know what the record formats looks like. Do you have one long record for the entire file? What does the header look like? Is it synchronous or asynchronous? Is there parity, check sum, CRC or ECC? There are a lot of things that need to be built up into a complete tape decoder. A tape writer would be used by more than a tape reader. One should only need to read the tape once but many people would often like to create a tape from that same data. You really want both. One should also note that most audio tape to digital inputs on these old computers filtered the signal some to optimize the audio signal for decode. This was done on both read and write of the signal. Dwight From red at bears.org Tue Dec 17 18:07:00 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? In-Reply-To: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEAEMJCFAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> References: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEAEMJCFAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212171852330.1771-100000@instinct.bears.org> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Witchy wrote: > can't think of any more for now. I can think of one more, anyway. The Amiga 2000 had its keyboard and mouse/joystick ports on the front of the cabinet, underneath the disk drives. Not only that, but most home video game consoles have their game controller ports on the front (the Atari VCS did not). I don't know whether this counts as an answer to Sellam's question, though. ok r. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Dec 17 18:13:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Computer Audio Tape Formats Message-ID: <200212180015.QAA03270@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwightk.elvey@amd.com> > >>From: tlindner@ix.netcom.com >> >>> Here's one: >>> >>> http://www.kim-1.com/usrman.htm#E >> >>Ahh, this is really diffferent! >> >>This uses: >> >>'0 bit' - 18 square cycles at 3700 Hz. >> 6 square cycles at 2400 Hz. >> >>'1 bit" - 9 square cycles at 3700 Hz. >> 12 square cycles at 2400 Hz. >> >>Both are the same length (7.452 microseconds). >> >>As you can probably tell, I am currently anaylizing this at a very low >>level. >> >>-- >>tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com >> > >Hi > Here is one that is even a little different still. >It is what is called Manchester encoding, using biphase >clocking. You don't indicate 1 or 0, you indicate a change >by a quick clock and no change by a long clock. > It looks something like this: > > ___ _ ___ _ > |___| |_| |_| |______ Opps! Shuld have been: ___ _ ___ _ ___ |___| |_| |_| |___| > > Depending on past history, this might be: > > 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 > > or > > 1 1 0 0 1 1 1 > > > This is the type of encoding used on my Poly88 for >what they call PolyPhase. This runs at 2400 baud. > There is a standard called Byte format that uses 300 baud >and the two tones 1200 and 2400. > Besides the type of encoding, you also need to know >what the record formats looks like. Do you have one long >record for the entire file? What does the header look like? >Is it synchronous or asynchronous? Is there parity, check sum, >CRC or ECC? > There are a lot of things that need to be built up into >a complete tape decoder. A tape writer would be used >by more than a tape reader. One should only need to read >the tape once but many people would often like to create >a tape from that same data. You really want both. > One should also note that most audio tape to digital >inputs on these old computers filtered the signal some >to optimize the audio signal for decode. This was done >on both read and write of the signal. >Dwight > > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Dec 17 18:35:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Computer Audio Tape Formats In-Reply-To: "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwightk.elvey@amd.com> "Re: Computer Audio Tape Formats" (Dec 17, 16:00) References: <200212180000.QAA03265@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <10212180037.ZM9178@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 17, 16:00, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Here is one that is even a little different still. > It is what is called Manchester encoding, using biphase > clocking. You don't indicate 1 or 0, you indicate a change > by a quick clock and no change by a long clock. > This is the type of encoding used on my Poly88 for > what they call PolyPhase. This runs at 2400 baud. The Exidy Sorcerer also uses Manchester encoding. For 1200 baud this equates to 1 cycle of 1200 Hz for a logic 1, and a half cycle of 600 Hz for a logic zero. For 300 baud it becomes 8 cycles of 2400 Hz and 4 cycles of 1200 Hz. It sounds like plain FSK, but if you draw the waveform for "101100" at 1200, you'll see it's actually a Manchester code: __ _____ __ __ _____ | |__| |__| |__| |_____| | --1-- --0-- --1-- --1-- --0-- --0-- > There is a standard called Byte format that uses 300 baud > and the two tones 1200 and 2400. Byte format is Kansas City format. It was proposed in Byte and formalised at the KC meeting. I think the Commodore PET uses modified CUTS. It records each block twice, which is why it's relatively slow, but also pretty robust. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From donm at cts.com Tue Dec 17 18:49:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Valuable MicroVAX-II (?) In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212171750540.2246-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0212171649360.55592-100000@crash.cts.com> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > > > I'd expect that for one with a SCSI Qbus module, but this system > > > > > seems rather vanilla, except for the multiple RD54s. > > > > > > > > > > Who'd a thunk it? > > > > As has been pointed out, someone is most likely after the 3 RD54's. > > The thing to remember is that there are still systems being used > > commercially, or by the Government that use these drives. The cost of > > qualifying different hardware to move to SCSI far outweighs the cost of > > obtaining RD54's. > > That certainly makes sense, though I had never thought of the RD54 as > being worth much, since after all, it is MFM. I suspect what you really mean is that they use the ST-412/506 interface, but as a matter of fact they RLL very nicely given the proper controller. - don > > > > Anyone have any ideas as to why most BA123s are missing the door > > > > that covers the operator's panel? Is it just easily broken and lost? > > > > > > I think they were shipped broken. You had to be very careful using > > > that door, or the pegs (hinges) would break off. Since all the > > > intresting buttons were under the door, it needed to be opened fairly > > > frequently. > > > > I had one that was intact. The top peg that holds it in place and makes > > up the hinge is now broken. I'm still ticked off at my Mother over that > > one. I had the panel off, and she knocked it over on a hardwood floor. > > The result, the peg broke off. :^( That was a few years ago, I've still > > got the peg, and one of these years I'll try and patch it. > > I recently fixed a few cracks in the plastic trim on my BA123. It seems to > be made of ABS, but I'm not 100% sure. In any case, Methylene Chloride > certainly did the trick, and the plastic trim on my BA123 looks quite nice > now. Of course, the door for the operator's panel is missing, but I guess > that is quite common ;) > > Anyone have an extra drive control panel for the front operators' panel? > My BA123 is missing one, and I'd like to replace it. I know some complete > front panels have come up on the list in the past, so maybe they are still > floating around in parts boxes. > > -Toth > From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Dec 17 18:57:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Valuable MicroVAX-II (?) In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0212171649360.55592-100000@crash.cts.com> References: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0212171649360.55592-100000@crash.cts.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212171904330.2246-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > > As has been pointed out, someone is most likely after the 3 RD54's. > > > The thing to remember is that there are still systems being used > > > commercially, or by the Government that use these drives. The cost > > > of qualifying different hardware to move to SCSI far outweighs the > > > cost of obtaining RD54's. > > > > That certainly makes sense, though I had never thought of the RD54 as > > being worth much, since after all, it is MFM. > > I suspect what you really mean is that they use the ST-412/506 > interface, but as a matter of fact they RLL very nicely given the proper > controller. Of course :P -Toth From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Dec 17 18:58:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:41 2005 Subject: Computer Audio Tape Formats In-Reply-To: <10212180037.ZM9178@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <200212180000.QAA03265@clulw009.amd.com> <10212180037.ZM9178@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212171958370.23121-100000@panix3.panix.com> Steve Ciarcia fielded a very simple device in the late 70s called the 'Bit Boffer'. Ah, yes. Those *were* the days! Cheers and Best of the Season to Y'All! John From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Dec 17 19:09:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: Computer Audio Tape Formats In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212171958370.23121-100000@panix3.panix.com> References: <200212180000.QAA03265@clulw009.amd.com> <10212180037.ZM9178@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212171958370.23121-100000@panix3.panix.com> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212172008250.23121-100000@panix3.panix.com> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, John Lawson wrote: > > > > Steve Ciarcia fielded a very simple device in the late 70s called the ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Hey John, you Moron!!! try: "DON LANCASTER" Sheeesh!!! No excuse for posting before checking references.... Another Senior Moment Chz John From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 17 19:29:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021217013538.0190eea0@slave> from "Adrian Vickers" at Dec 17, 2 01:40:07 am Message-ID: <m18ORiL-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1025 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021217/63665379/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 17 19:29:58 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: AMD2901CDC chip available In-Reply-To: <20021217051713.47039.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 16, 2 09:17:13 pm Message-ID: <m18OSI0-000IzlC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 628 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021217/6d77eaee/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 17 19:30:34 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? In-Reply-To: <3DFE2F97.13681.2560FB8@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Dec 16, 2 07:55:03 pm Message-ID: <m18OS7Z-000IzUC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1679 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021217/7ff146ff/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 17 19:31:09 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? In-Reply-To: <S.0000097832@mythtech.net> from "chris" at Dec 16, 2 10:28:49 pm Message-ID: <m18OSES-000IzbC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 388 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021217/9eead3be/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 17 19:31:43 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? In-Reply-To: <200212171022.gBHAMt0o009131@codex.cis.upenn.edu> from "vassilip@dsl.cis.upenn.edu" at Dec 17, 2 05:22:55 am Message-ID: <m18OSLy-000IzmC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 785 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021217/b51ae402/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Dec 17 19:33:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: Computer Audio Tape Formats In-Reply-To: pete@mindy "Re: Computer Audio Tape Formats" (Dec 18, 0:37) References: <200212180000.QAA03265@clulw009.amd.com> <10212180037.ZM9178@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <10212180133.ZM9248@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 18, 0:37, pete@mindy wrote: > "101100" at 1200, you'll see it's actually a Manchester code: > > __ _____ __ __ _____ > | |__| |__| |__| |_____| | > > --1-- --0-- --1-- --1-- --0-- --0-- Oops, I take that back :-) Although the Sorcerer manuals describe it as a Manchester encoder/decoder, what it puts on the tape is FSK. I just checked the schematic and circuit description. Dwight hasn't exactly described Manchester encoding either, though. Manchester encoding puts the clock transition in the *centre* of each cell, and the polarity of the transition determines whether it's a 0 or a 1. There's a phase shift at the cell boundary if necessary. His diagram *could* be Manchester encoding if you shift the 0s and 1s slightly to the left, except for the last bit. It should be (maybe 'd' for "down" and 'u' for "up" makes it more obvious): ___ _ ___ _ ___ |___| |_| |_| |___| -0- -1- -1- -0- -0- -1- d u u d d u It's too late at night here, for any more of this :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Dec 17 19:33:35 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: Computer Audio Tape Formats In-Reply-To: John Lawson <jpl15@panix.com> "Re: Computer Audio Tape Formats" (Dec 17, 20:11) References: <200212180000.QAA03265@clulw009.amd.com> <10212180037.ZM9178@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212171958370.23121-100000@panix3.panix.com> <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212172008250.23121-100000@panix3.panix.com> Message-ID: <10212180134.ZM9268@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 17, 20:11, John Lawson wrote: > Sheeesh!!! No excuse for posting before checking references.... > > Another Senior Moment We're all having them tonight, it seems :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 17 19:34:09 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: RS232 or Parallel port based keyboards and joysticks In-Reply-To: <F148q4gtopWd7KKQpQq000006ae@hotmail.com> from "Ram & Suganthi M." at Dec 17, 2 12:10:56 pm Message-ID: <m18OSm1-000IzpC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 656 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021217/b2d770c8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 17 19:34:45 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212171110070.22941-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> from "Fred Cisin" at Dec 17, 2 11:17:45 am Message-ID: <m18OSmy-000IzqC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 317 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021217/56173a0f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 17 19:35:21 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: Need a home for some HP gear - UK. In-Reply-To: <3DFF9C14.50608@gifford.co.uk> from "John Honniball" at Dec 17, 2 09:50:12 pm Message-ID: <m18OSqg-000IzsC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 652 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021217/78d61641/attachment.ksh From jim at jkearney.com Tue Dec 17 19:47:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: AMD2901CDC chip available References: <m18OSI0-000IzlC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <005f01c2a637$ba30d610$1301090a@xpace.net> > I believe the other chips are from the same family too, but as I've never > used them I can't remember what they do. Here's a partial list from the databook: 2901: 4 -bit slice 2902: Look-Ahead Carry Generator 2903: expanded function 4-bit slice 2904: Status and Shift Control Unit 2905: Quad Two-Input QC Bus Transceiver with Three-State Receiver 2906: Quad Two-Input QC Bus Transceiver with Parity 2907: Quad Bus Transceiver with Three-State Receiver and Parity 2909: Microprogram Sequencer 2910: Microprogram Controller 2911: Microprogram Sequencer 2912: Bus Transceiver 2913: Priority Interrupt Expander 2914: Priority Interrupt Encoder, Vectored 2915: Quad Three-State Bus Transceiver with Interface Logic 2916: Quad Three-State Bus Transceiver with Interface Logic 2917: Quad Three-State Bus Transceiver with Interface Logic 2918: Quad D Register with Standard and Three-State Outputs 2919: Macroprogram Sequencer / Quad D Flip-Flop with Two Output Ports 2920: Octal D-Type Flip-Flop, Three State 2921: One-of-Eight Decoder, with Polarity Control 2922: 8-Input Multiplexer, with control storage 2923: 8-Input Multiplexer, with control storage 2924: Decoder / Demultiplexer 2925: Clock Generator and Driver 2926: Quad Bus Driver / Receiver 2927: Bus Transceiver 2928: Bus Transceiver 2930: Program Control Unit 2932: Program Control Unit 2940: DMA Address Generator 2942: DMA Address Generator / Programmable Timer Counter 2946: Bus Transceiver 2947: Bus Transceiver 2948: Bus Transceiver 2949: Bus Transceiver 2950: 8-bit Parallel I/O Port 2951: 8-bit Parallel I/O Port 2954: Octal Register, Three State 2955: Octal Register, Three State 2956: Octal Latch, Three State 2957: Octal Latch, Three State 2958: Octal Buffer, Line Driver, Line Receiver 2959: Octal Buffer, Line Driver, Line Receiver 2960: Error Correction and Detection Circuit 2961: Error Correction Multiple Bus Buffer 2962: Error Correction Multiple Bus Buffer 2964: Dynamic Memory Controller 2965: Octal Memory Driver; Three State 2966: Octal Memory Driver; Three State 29203: enhanced 2903 with BCD arithmetic 29501: multi-port, pipelined processor 8-bit slice 295xx: ... all kinds of DSP/array/pipelined parts 297xx: PROMs and RAMs From avickers at solutionengineers.com Tue Dec 17 19:54:00 2002 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <m18ORiL-000IzIC@p850ug1> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021217013538.0190eea0@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021218015437.018cdb40@slave> At 00:05 18/12/2002, you wrote: > > Does anyone have a working boot disk for a Sharp MZ-80B? > > > > I went to use mine for the first time in a few months, and all of the > disks > > are either reporting "Not a Master" or "Read Error". Since I *know* > that at > >When _all_ your disks seem to fail at once, I'd suspect something else >(unless you know some idiot has waved a large magnet over the disk box or >something...). Well, they were mostly sat on the airconditioner.... However, as you may have seen my followup, it turned out to be something else... >Maybe a drive problem (dirty heads, alignment, logic >failure), a cable problem, That's the one - dodgy cable and/or connector: Using my emergency backup cable solved the trouble instantly & completely. I can now boot to both BASIC & CP/M. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Dec 17 20:15:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? In-Reply-To: <m18OSES-000IzbC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212171813450.19668-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> > Didn't the IBM PCjr have two aux sockets on the front for game cartridges > and I thought there was a printer interface that could use those sockets, > and a floppy drive interface as well (could be wrong). I'm hesitant to say that ANYTHING is impossible, nor never existed. But the only thing that I have ever seen the front sockets of the Jr used for was ROM cartridges. The printer interface(s) for the Jr consisted of a built-in (port in back) serial interface (along with a serial "PCJr printer"), and a parallel port option in sidecars (IBM did one that was just a parallel port, most others did multi-function) There was no "external" connector for floppy interface on the Jr. until you did what most of us did, and cut a hole in the case. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Dec 17 20:16:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: HP MultiProgrammer Re: Need a home for some HP gear - UK. In-Reply-To: <3DFF9C14.50608@gifford.co.uk> References: <001f01c2a5e8$fce0c5a0$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021217211613.59bf486c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:50 PM 12/17/02 +0000, you wrote: >Tim Myers wrote: >> The systems are HP3350 Laboratory Automation Systems, each consists of: >> HP-1000 F Series Computer, >> HP 12990B Memory Extender >> HP 12979B 1/O Extender >> HP 7970E Tape Drive >> 2xHP 7925 Disk Drives > >I have a gadget in the garage that I think has some connection >with these. It's an HP 6942A Multiprogrammer, and it's mounted in >a rack-style case just like those shown in the photos of this HP >gear. Can anyone use it? Does anyone know what is does? I do. It's basicly a card cage that you buy and then stuff with various optional IO cards. There are a lot of different cards for it and they include things like digital inputs, digital output, analog input and output cards, counters, programmable frequency and signal type (square wave, sine wave, etc etc) output cards, relay closure cards and many others. The 6942 is much more desirable than the older 6940 since it has a hP-IB port built-in and can be directly controlled by HP-IB. The 6940 used a parallel port interface but you could buy an optional HP-IB interface (separate unit). Joe > >Located in the frozen North of Bristol, UK. > >-- >John Honniball >coredump@gifford.co.uk > > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Dec 17 20:17:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? In-Reply-To: <m18OSmy-000IzqC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212171818230.19668-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> > > On a machine that doesn't sustain much floppy activity, > > (or uses external drives), if you face the disk drives towards the back, > > then the ports on your PC are out front where God intended. On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > I tired that on my Z90, but it sure was hard to type on the keyboard, and > impossible to read the screen ;-) All though it would, indeed, be VERY tiring, you could use the whole machine as a wrist rest, and reach over it to keyboard. You could mount a mirror on the wall for reading the screen. It might help to reverse the horizontal scan? From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Dec 17 20:22:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021218015437.018cdb40@slave> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212171821590.19668-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> > > > I went to use mine for the first time in a few months, and all of the > > disks > > > are either reporting "Not a Master" or "Read Error". Since I *know* > > that at > >When _all_ your disks seem to fail at once, I'd suspect something else > >(unless you know some idiot has waved a large magnet over the disk box or > >something...). And it's usually NOT a good idea to put your LAST boot disk into the drive! Although normally not a problem with most "normal" drives, there have been SOME (most notably Apple ][) that were capable of malfuntioning in ways that would cause them to erase/wipe/damage/ diskettes even when write-protected! What an amazing feature! From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Dec 17 20:36:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: Computer Audio Tape Formats Message-ID: <200212180238.SAA03310@clulw009.amd.com> >From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com > >On Dec 18, 0:37, pete@mindy wrote: > >> "101100" at 1200, you'll see it's actually a Manchester code: >> >> __ _____ __ __ _____ >> | |__| |__| |__| |_____| | >> >> --1-- --0-- --1-- --1-- --0-- --0-- > >Oops, I take that back :-) Although the Sorcerer manuals describe it as a >Manchester encoder/decoder, what it puts on the tape is FSK. I just >checked the schematic and circuit description. > >Dwight hasn't exactly described Manchester encoding either, though. > Manchester encoding puts the clock transition in the *centre* of each >cell, and the polarity of the transition determines whether it's a 0 or a >1. There's a phase shift at the cell boundary if necessary. His diagram >*could* be Manchester encoding if you shift the 0s and 1s slightly to the >left, except for the last bit. It should be (maybe 'd' for "down" and 'u' >for "up" makes it more obvious): > > ___ _ ___ _ ___ > |___| |_| |_| |___| > > -0- -1- -1- -0- -0- -1- > d u u d d u > >It's too late at night here, for any more of this :-) Hi Pete Yes, you are correct. The difference in the Poly format was between RZ vers NRZ. I think Manchester only refers to the clocking, as you described. Dwight > >-- >Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Dec 17 20:38:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: Computer Audio Tape Formats Message-ID: <200212180240.SAA03315@clulw009.amd.com> >From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com > >On Dec 17, 20:11, John Lawson wrote: >> Sheeesh!!! No excuse for posting before checking references.... >> >> Another Senior Moment > >We're all having them tonight, it seems :-) > While I can get a senior discount at restaurants, that doesn't mean I'm having a senior moment. Does it? Dwight From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Dec 17 20:45:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: OT: Detachable Penis (was Re: 1977 Apple II for sale.) In-Reply-To: <S.0000098235@mythtech.net> from chris at "Dec 17, 2 01:52:42 pm" Message-ID: <200212180257.SAA03836@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > > He had to talk the guy down in price but he got it and went home > > > > and put it back on, relieved he didn't have to sit down to pee anymore. > > > "... for a dollar ninety-nine!" > > You must be thinking of a different song. He talked him down from $22 to > > $17. > Seymore Crelbourn bought Audry 2 "for a dollar ninety-nine" *slaps forehead* Yep, you're right. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but the doorjambs need dusting." ------------- From rschaefe at gcfn.org Tue Dec 17 20:49:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: Fw: New home for DEC 3000 model 300LX [Norway] Message-ID: <01fb01c2a640$73a9f0b0$7d00a8c0@george> A little far for me to drive... Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arne Bergseth" <Arne.Bergseth@dnv.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.vms Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 3:13 PM Subject: New home for DEC 3000 model 300LX > DEC 3000 model 300 available for VMS hobbyist. > Workstation with Alpha 21064 processor, 64 MB memory and 1.05 GB disk, > has been taken out of use and need a new home. > I already have more than I can accomodate. > The machine is located in Norway, the system box can possibly be shipped > by mail if you are willing to cover the postage. > If you also want the VRC21-HA monitor you will have to come get it in > Sandvika in Norway. > > Regards, > Arne Bergseth > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 17 21:02:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: AMD2901CDC chip available In-Reply-To: <m18OSI0-000IzlC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <20021218030434.82201.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell <ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > Seems high to me. BG Micro lists "AM2901"s at $1.50. They are on page > > five of the current catalog under "miscellaneous" along with 2907s, > > 2909s, 2910s, 2911s, 2964s and 29701s.... > > Well, I recognise some of those numbers and associate them with the 2901 > ALU chip, which I assume is what we're discussing. In particular, the > 2909, 2910, 2911 are all microcode sequencer chips from the same family. I associate those numbers the same way as well, but I didn't want to assert that it was the only interpretation. > I believe the other chips are from the same family too, but as I've never > used them I can't remember what they do. I have never designed or constructed anything using any of that family, but I have repaired a few things with them. In particular, I recognize the 2910 as appearing on the Tandon SASI<->ST506 board in the Commodore D9060 and D9090 drives. ISTR it's much like the 2901 but wider than 4 bits - kind of an integrated building block for those designers who are more concerned with real estate than extracting every last feature the 2901 has to offer, i.e., a compact short-cut. I do not recognize the others from vintage equipment I have. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Tue Dec 17 21:12:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: Detachable Penis (was Re: 1977 Apple II for sale.) Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C7CC@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> And yes, we do have the MP3 of that available.. :) --f > -----Original Message----- > From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 11:40 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: OT: Detachable Penis (was Re: 1977 Apple II for sale.) > > > On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > > He had to talk the guy down in price but he got it and went home > > > and put it back on, relieved he didn't have to sit down > to pee anymore. > > > > "... for a dollar ninety-nine!" > > You must be thinking of a different song. He talked him down > from $22 to > $17. > > Lyrics here: > > http://www.lyricsfreak.com/k/king-missile/16758.htm > > :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From red at bears.org Tue Dec 17 21:17:00 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: OT: Detachable Penis (was Re: 1977 Apple II for sale.) In-Reply-To: <200212180257.SAA03836@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200212180257.SAA03836@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212172217560.5011-100000@instinct.bears.org> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > > "... for a dollar ninety-nine!" > > > > You must be thinking of a different song. He talked him down from $22 to > > > $17. > > > Seymore Crelbourn bought Audry 2 "for a dollar ninety-nine" > > *slaps forehead* Yep, you're right. Not only that, but Huey Lewis bought nearly twice as much of the so-called "baddest stew in the land" as he could stomach, for that price. (; ok r. From charlesmorris at direcway.com Tue Dec 17 21:38:33 2002 From: charlesmorris at direcway.com (Charles) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: connecting 33 to PDP-8 In-Reply-To: <20021217221132.76726.9043.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20021217221132.76726.9043.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <jhrvvuori8ttm33203duvamf9g75ltkvaf@4ax.com> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002 16:11:32 -0600, you wrote: >> The -8/E has an M8650 (KL8E) which I've been using with RS232. However, >> I have 40-way Berg connectors, and the proper AMP flat 8-way Mate-N-Lok >> connector shells for the 20mA loop, and the male and female pins... > >Sounds like you have the basics covered. Don't forget the short jumper >wire at the Berg end that directs the TTL output of the KL8E shift >register to the 20mA output circuit. It's a different loop than the >one you should have right now on your EIA cable. I have a PDP-8/I and a Model 33 but there are no connectors at all. The serial interface card (? M709) is there and if I run clipleads to the appropriate pins on its backplane socket with a series resistor to +12v it works, both keyboard and printer. What pieces am I missing? The above discussion is beyond my current understanding of DEC interconnect hardware. Should there be a card that plugs into the backplane somewhere, that has a pigtail hanging from it, or what? If so, what part number should I be searching for? thanks Charles From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Dec 17 21:42:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: OT: Detachable Penis (was Re: 1977 Apple II for sale.) In-Reply-To: <S.0000098235@mythtech.net> Message-ID: <003901c2a647$67075da0$020010ac@k4jcw> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of chris > Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 13:53 > To: Classic Computer > Subject: Re: OT: Detachable Penis (was Re: 1977 Apple II for sale.) > > > >> > He had to talk the guy down in price but he got it and went home > >> > and put it back on, relieved he didn't have to sit down > to pee anymore. > >> > >> "... for a dollar ninety-nine!" > > > >You must be thinking of a different song. He talked him > down from $22 to > >$17. > > Seymore Crelbourn bought Audry 2 "for a dollar ninety-nine" > > -chris > <http://www.mythtech.net> Thank Dog google knows what to do with misspelled search terms. It's "Seymour Krelborn bought Audrey 2" --John From Qstieee at aol.com Tue Dec 17 22:10:13 2002 From: Qstieee at aol.com (Qstieee@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: connecting 33 to PDP-8 Message-ID: <72.2784314b.2b314fa8@aol.com> This document talks about the jumper options on the KL8E: <A HREF="http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/pdp8/hard8e/kl8e.html">http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/pdp8/hard8e/kl8e.html</A> There is also good information and a knowledgeable contact at: <A HREF="http://www.pdp8.net">http://www.pdp8.net</A> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021217/2fb3a5b6/attachment.html From cb at mythtech.net Tue Dec 17 22:30:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: OT: Detachable Penis (was Re: 1977 Apple II for sale.) Message-ID: <S.0000098514@mythtech.net> >> Seymore Crelbourn bought Audry 2 "for a dollar ninety-nine" > >Thank Dog google knows what to do with misspelled search terms. It's >"Seymour Krelborn bought Audrey 2" Yeah, I figured when I was writing it that I was spelling his name wrong... what I didn't expect was that he got Audry 2 for 4 cents cheaper than I said... he bought it from the old Chinese man for a dollar ninety-five (that fact dawned on me later as I had the song stuck in my head). -chris <http://www.mythtech.net> From fernande at internet1.net Wed Dec 18 00:06:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: Valuable MicroVAX-II (?) References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212162147330.12567-100000@haiku.jarai.net> <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212170007130.7673-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> <3DFF55E2.7080904@srv.net> Message-ID: <3E001049.4080403@internet1.net> Kevin Handy wrote: > I think they were shipped broken. You had to be very careful using > that door, or the pegs (hinges) would break off. Since all the intresting > buttons were under the door, it needed to be opened fairly frequently. > >> -Toth Mine is broken too :-( Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Wed Dec 18 00:09:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: Valuable MicroVAX-II (?) References: <200212172250.gBHMoq828299@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3E001120.6080802@internet1.net> Zane H. Healy wrote: > I had one that was intact. The top peg that holds it in place and makes up > the hinge is now broken. I'm still ticked off at my Mother over that one. > I had the panel off, and she knocked it over on a hardwood floor. The > result, the peg broke off. :^( That was a few years ago, I've still got the > peg, and one of these years I'll try and patch it. > > Zane I repaired a post for mounting a power supply in an IBM Model 80 with JB Weld. It was a tall piece of fiberous plastic that didn't really lend itself to be "glued", but the JB Weld seemed to work very well. I still have it, but haven't open up the machine recently to see if it's still holding, but I would assume that it is. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From n8uhn at yahoo.com Wed Dec 18 00:58:15 2002 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: Old TI analog sound chip; info? Message-ID: <20021218070033.3680.qmail@web40707.mail.yahoo.com> Was'nt the "spo256" a ti voice synth chip or was it a gi product. i do remember when radio shack carried the spo256 and the companion text to speech chip (cannot remember the part number for that chip) Bill. Message: 42 From: "Davison, Lee" <Lee.Davison@merlincommunications.com> To: "'cctalk@classiccmp.org'" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Subject: RE: Old TI analog sound chip; info? Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 09:02:10 -0000 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > I'm looking for the documentation for the olde TI analog > sound chip; this dates back to the late 70's early 80's if > my memory serves me correctly. I don't even remember the > part number. AFAIK, it had some kind of "I2L" (I squared > el) technology or somesuch, and it was mostly analog, with > some digital control (but nothing like a DSP or midi). > Anyone recall this chip? Anyone have the datasheet for > it online or willing to scan it in? SN76477N, http://rgvac.978.org/chips/sn76477datasheet.pdf > Background: I remember playing with it a *long* time ago, > and wanted to model it in software :-) I remember it well, it was the canine gonads until the AY3-8910 and it's ilk appeared. Cheers, Lee. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From n8uhn at yahoo.com Wed Dec 18 01:13:13 2002 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: System/23 Support Disks Message-ID: <20021218071308.78219.qmail@web40709.mail.yahoo.com> Chris, are you talking about the sys/32? i have never heard of the sys/23. i do have some sys/32 disks - not the ones you mentioned, though. i still have the manuals (tech binders) with the schematics and trouble shooting stuff and i may have the sys/32 ssp and a few other disks around here somewhere. i still have two sys 34's and one sys/36 in my collection - one of the 34's and the 36 are rare config's - they both have extended chassi's and extra hard (disk) drives in them. the 34 has 2 hd's and the 36 has three hd's. it's really interesting that the 34 has 8 inches of chassi added to it and the 36 has three feet of chassi added to it. i do have alot of sys/36 software and some sys/34 software. if you do have a sys/32 - you can have the manuals and software - just arrange shipping. i no longer have a sys/32 and no longer need the stuff. Bill (n8uhn at yahoo dot com) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From ggs at shiresoft.com Wed Dec 18 01:27:13 2002 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: System/23 Support Disks In-Reply-To: <20021218071308.78219.qmail@web40709.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021218071308.78219.qmail@web40709.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1040196453.2479.96.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> On Tue, 2002-12-17 at 23:13, Bill Allen Jr wrote: > Chris, > > are you talking about the sys/32? > If it can sit on a desk top and has a keyboard and green display then it's a system/23 (also known as DataMaster). It used an 8085 processor, had 128K of ROM and upto 128K of RAM. It used bank switching to be able to access that much ROM and RAM. It has a base of 32K RAM and one 8" floppy drive. The case could hold a second (both drives were vertical). The case design was similar to the 5120. Even though it used an 8085 all of the character coding was in EBCDIC. It ran a BASIC interpreter that was compatible with the basic on system/34. It was developed by IBM between 1979-1980 and was a milestone for IBM because it used a non-IBM processor. It paved the way for the IBM PC (many of the team that worked on system/23 went on to design and develop the PC). > i have never heard of the sys/23. > > i do have some sys/32 disks - not the ones you > mentioned, though. > > i still have the manuals (tech binders) with the > schematics and trouble shooting stuff and i may have > the sys/32 ssp and a few other disks around here > somewhere. > > i still have two sys 34's and one sys/36 in my > collection - one of the 34's and the 36 are rare > config's - they both have extended chassi's and extra > hard (disk) drives in them. > > the 34 has 2 hd's and the 36 has three hd's. > > it's really interesting that the 34 has 8 inches of > chassi added to it and the 36 has three feet of chassi > added to it. > > i do have alot of sys/36 software and some sys/34 > software. > > if you do have a sys/32 - you can have the manuals and > software - just arrange shipping. > > i no longer have a sys/32 and no longer need the > stuff. > > Bill (n8uhn at yahoo dot com) > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- TTFN - Guy From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 18 01:56:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: Computer Audio Tape Formats In-Reply-To: <10212180037.ZM9178@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212171557280.29640-100000@siconic.com> On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > I think the Commodore PET uses modified CUTS. It records each block > twice, which is why it's relatively slow, but also pretty robust. If it records each block twice, and one block is bad, which of the two do you trust? (Or is there a checksum involved too?) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Dec 18 02:03:01 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: connecting 33 to PDP-8 In-Reply-To: Charles <charlesmorris@direcway.com> "Re: connecting 33 to PDP-8" (Dec 17, 21:40) References: <20021217221132.76726.9043.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <jhrvvuori8ttm33203duvamf9g75ltkvaf@4ax.com> Message-ID: <10212180805.ZM9533@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 17, 21:40, Charles wrote: > I have a PDP-8/I and a Model 33 but there are no connectors at > all. The serial interface card (? M709) is there and if I run > clipleads to the appropriate pins on its backplane socket with a > series resistor to +12v it works, both keyboard and printer. > > What pieces am I missing? The above discussion is beyond my > current understanding of DEC interconnect hardware. Should there > be a card that plugs into the backplane somewhere, that has a > pigtail hanging from it, or what? If so, what part number should I > be searching for? There possibly should, but I don't know much about the details of an 8/I. Are there wires running from those pins to another slot? An 8/E is Omnibus, and the serial signals don't appear anywhere on the backplane, so the only access is via the Berg connector on the (quad height) interface card. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Dec 18 02:05:01 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: Computer Audio Tape Formats In-Reply-To: Sellam Ismail <foo@siconic.com> "Re: Computer Audio Tape Formats" (Dec 17, 15:58) References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212171557280.29640-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <10212180807.ZM9545@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 17, 15:58, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > > > I think the Commodore PET uses modified CUTS. It records each block > > twice, which is why it's relatively slow, but also pretty robust. > > If it records each block twice, and one block is bad, which of the two do > you trust? > > (Or is there a checksum involved too?) The one with the good checksum, I expect. There is a check of some sort, but I don't know the details. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 18 03:14:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: connecting 33 to PDP-8 In-Reply-To: <10212180805.ZM9533@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20021218091604.4803.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > On Dec 17, 21:40, Charles wrote: > > I have a PDP-8/I and a Model 33 but there are no connectors at > > all. The serial interface card (? M709) is there and if I run > > clipleads to the appropriate pins on its backplane socket with a > > series resistor to +12v it works, both keyboard and printer. I don't have the handbook nor the hardware in front of me to say which one is which, but the console TTY send/receive boards are the M706 and M707. TTL in/out. The -8/i uses identical hardware to the -8/L (I have both)... M452(?) clock generator (I have this plan in the back of my head to build a xtal-controlled baud rate generator with a COM8116 or the like). The 20mA paddle card for both is the W076. If you follow the output pins you've been hooking up to, you'll find where the W076 lives. Alternatively, there are schematics and board layout documents on sites like http://www.pdp8.net/ and others. > > What pieces am I missing? The above discussion is beyond my > > current understanding of DEC interconnect hardware. Should there > > be a card that plugs into the backplane somewhere, that has a > > pigtail hanging from it, or what? If so, what part number should I > > be searching for? W076. It will have a few resistors, capacitors and a transistor or two, and several split lugs. If you happen to pick one up with no cable or one that you don't know what CPU it came from (it's used in several), I have seen a document somewhere that describes the minor differences between types of machines the W076 works in (what voltages are available on pins like B2 and what not). Mine came with my M-series machines, so I never had to worry about moving the wires around. > There possibly should, but I don't know much about the details of an 8/I. > Are there wires running from those pins to another slot? Yes. Unlike OMNIBUS machines, the -8/i (and -8/L, -8/S and Straight-8), the wiring is, to the casual observer, random, not bussed. It has a pattern and flow to it, but nothing approaching the predictability of the OMNIBUS (pin A1 to pin A1, all slots; pin A2 to pin A2, all slots, etc.). > An 8/E is Omnibus, and the serial signals don't appear anywhere on the > backplane, so the only access is via the Berg connector on the (quad > height) interface Exactly. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From drido at optushome.com.au Wed Dec 18 06:46:00 2002 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 monitor In-Reply-To: <20021218022200.80674.62840.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20021218234330.00fb7db4@mail.optushome.com.au> >perhaps a bit uncommon question, but does anyone in (preferrably middle) >Europe have a 9" crt tube for Mac SE/30? I suppose it's the same as in >SE, the box definitely looks the same. I've broken mine by accident, and >really would like to use this box ;) The CRT from an SE would work. Mono CRTs such as these are usually interchangable (at least the ones that I have changed), but if you use one from a different (ie, not a Mac SE or SE/30) you'll probable have to change to yoke which may be more than you want a do (though on a mono display alignment is pretty easy). My first Mac was a Plus that has been dropped, I replaced the CRT with an Amber one removed from a luggable XT. It was the same size, mounting and pinout. The yoke from the original CRT fit okay. From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Dec 18 08:05:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: Nice Find today and some good books References: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEOEHGCFAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> Message-ID: <008a01c2a69e$c7ec2220$5451ef42@oemcomputer> Thanks for the nice pic, now I have to find some cartridges, the gun, and power supply for it. I got the second controller on my next trip to the same store, funny how they separate things. :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Witchy" <witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> To: <cctech@classiccmp.org> Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 2:19 PM Subject: RE: Nice Find today and some good books > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Keys > > Sent: 10 December 2002 02:56 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp > > Subject: Nice Find today and some good books > > > > > > Found a Micro Genius IQ-501 Computer Game console and one > > controller/joystick for it at a thrift. It's a NES/Famicom Pirate Clone. > > You can see it a this site page down to the bottom: > > http://www.gamersgraveyard.com/repository/nes/pirate/pirate-clones > > -A-M.html > > Hells, mine's in far better condition than that one and look how much I paid > for it! > > http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Clones/microgenius.jpg > > Pity it doesn't work :( > > -- > adrian/witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans > > From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Dec 18 08:47:00 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? Message-ID: <EFCC02DCB43BE04989267F883F7237870B4469@denmails1.jdedwards.com> I've always thought that the proper place for ports on a _desk-top_ system is on the side: easy to get to the ports and you don't have the cable connectors sticking out the back, where they add to the depth, which can be a problem on a narrow countertop. When I built my first IBM-PC clone (in a nice cherry-stained wooden case), I turned the motherboard 90 degrees CW so the ports were on the right. I also made brackets from cookie-sheet aluminum to mount the disk drives and power supply over the (now) front of the motherboard, resulting in a nice, shallow case. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 5:45 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Computers with ports coming out the front? On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On a machine that doesn't sustain much floppy activity, > (or uses external drives), if you face the disk drives towards the back, > then the ports on your PC are out front where God intended. Indeed, a friend of mine who owns a business that makes rackmount systems made a special model for a customer where they pretty much did this. They put the mounting flange on the back of the box, making it the front, and added cut-outs for the disk drives. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Dec 18 09:02:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? In-Reply-To: <EFCC02DCB43BE04989267F883F7237870B4469@denmails1.jdedwards.com> Message-ID: <006201c2a6a6$ba4d5f50$020010ac@k4jcw> I've always though that cables are a complete pain in the ass, and everything should be on a 10 terabit hyper encrypted range-as-needed wireless network. Mice, keyboards, monitor, printers, disk drives, floppies, paper tape punch/readers, and POWER. And if the power can't be wireless, at least 1 megawatt nuclear batteries in a 'D' cell form factor that will last 1000 years. Cables SUCK. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Feldman, Robert > Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 09:50 > To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: Computers with ports coming out the front? > > > I've always thought that the proper place for ports on a > _desk-top_ system > is on the side: easy to get to the ports and you don't have the cable > connectors sticking out the back, where they add to the > depth, which can be > a problem on a narrow countertop. When I built my first > IBM-PC clone (in a > nice cherry-stained wooden case), I turned the motherboard 90 > degrees CW so > the ports were on the right. I also made brackets from > cookie-sheet aluminum > to mount the disk drives and power supply over the (now) front of the > motherboard, resulting in a nice, shallow case. > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 5:45 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Computers with ports coming out the front? > > > On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > On a machine that doesn't sustain much floppy activity, > > (or uses external drives), if you face the disk drives > towards the back, > > then the ports on your PC are out front where God intended. > > Indeed, a friend of mine who owns a business that makes > rackmount systems > made a special model for a customer where they pretty much > did this. They > put the mounting flange on the back of the box, making it the > front, and > added cut-outs for the disk drives. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- > -- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Dec 18 09:11:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? In-Reply-To: <006201c2a6a6$ba4d5f50$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021218101138.27245D-100000@osfn.org> > I've always though that cables are a complete pain in the ass, and > everything should be on a 10 terabit hyper encrypted range-as-needed > wireless network. Mice, keyboards, monitor, printers, disk drives, > floppies, paper tape punch/readers, and POWER. And if the power can't be > wireless, at least 1 megawatt nuclear batteries in a 'D' cell form factor > that will last 1000 years. > > Cables SUCK. Yes, but the wireless mouse is one of the dumber ideas man has ever come up with. If you have ever had one, you probably now have lost it. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Dec 18 09:15:01 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:42 2005 Subject: System/23 Support Disks References: <20021218071308.78219.qmail@web40709.mail.yahoo.com> <1040196453.2479.96.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <002201c2a6a8$81edff50$513bcd18@D73KSM11> The S/23 I displayed at VCF 5 (2 drives, 96K RAM) can be seen in the following photo from the show, partially obscured, on the right. http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/vcf5/david_cavenaugh.jpg -W > On Tue, 2002-12-17 at 23:13, Bill Allen Jr wrote: > > Chris, > > > > are you talking about the sys/32? > > > If it can sit on a desk top and has a keyboard and green display then > it's a system/23 (also known as DataMaster). It used an 8085 processor, > had 128K of ROM and upto 128K of RAM. It used bank switching to be able > to access that much ROM and RAM. > > It has a base of 32K RAM and one 8" floppy drive. The case could hold a > second (both drives were vertical). The case design was similar to the > 5120. Even though it used an 8085 all of the character coding was in > EBCDIC. > > It ran a BASIC interpreter that was compatible with the basic on > system/34. > > It was developed by IBM between 1979-1980 and was a milestone for IBM > because it used a non-IBM processor. It paved the way for the IBM PC > (many of the team that worked on system/23 went on to design and develop > the PC). > > > i have never heard of the sys/23. > > > > i do have some sys/32 disks - not the ones you > > mentioned, though. > > > > i still have the manuals (tech binders) with the > > schematics and trouble shooting stuff and i may have > > the sys/32 ssp and a few other disks around here > > somewhere. > > > > i still have two sys 34's and one sys/36 in my > > collection - one of the 34's and the 36 are rare > > config's - they both have extended chassi's and extra > > hard (disk) drives in them. > > > > the 34 has 2 hd's and the 36 has three hd's. > > > > it's really interesting that the 34 has 8 inches of > > chassi added to it and the 36 has three feet of chassi > > added to it. > > > > i do have alot of sys/36 software and some sys/34 > > software. > > > > if you do have a sys/32 - you can have the manuals and > > software - just arrange shipping. > > > > i no longer have a sys/32 and no longer need the > > stuff. > > > > Bill (n8uhn at yahoo dot com) > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > -- > > TTFN - Guy > > From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 18 10:31:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021218101138.27245D-100000@osfn.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212180032200.31268-100000@siconic.com> On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > Yes, but the wireless mouse is one of the dumber ideas man has ever come > up with. If you have ever had one, you probably now have lost it. How can one lose one's mouse? Mine never leaves the mousepad (yes, it's wireless). Perhaps you have underpants gnomes living in your house who have taken a fancy to wireless mice. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 18 10:32:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: System/23 Support Disks In-Reply-To: <002201c2a6a8$81edff50$513bcd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212180034040.31268-100000@siconic.com> On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > The S/23 I displayed at VCF 5 (2 drives, 96K RAM) can be seen in the following > photo from the show, partially obscured, on the right. > > http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/vcf5/david_cavenaugh.jpg On the right of your exhibit but to the left of David Kavanaugh's head ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Dec 18 11:08:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: OT: NCR 6299 Raid subsystems Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212181210560.25726-100000@ibm-ps850.purdueriots.com> I've got a bunch of NCR (Symbios) Class 6299 Model 1100 raid subsystems, and they have a DA-15 console port, for which I can't find any pinout information. Does anyone have a pinout available or information on these? I've tried googling everything I could think of, but no luck. I know the information is in their 'Site Preparation Guide', which Purdue had, but got lost. Also, NCR doesn't seem to carry documentation for these on their website. Thanks for any information. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Dec 18 12:28:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212180032200.31268-100000@siconic.com> References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212180032200.31268-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212181316590.20772-100000@panix3.panix.com> On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > > > Yes, but the wireless mouse is one of the dumber ideas man has ever come Dumb Device Department I submit for your consideration, the "Gyro Mouse"... having gyros on the two axes - the object being you hold it in mid-air and wave it around to move the cursor, etc. (It was wired, BTW) I saw one years ago, had to have it, and soon found out it's obvious design flaw... you try keeping your arm and hand and mouse off the desk for hours at a time.... I think Hans has the damn thing now... it'll be good payback for overrunning Belgium and the Netherlands a while back. Merry Newtonsmas John PS: People who use mice have clean desks, and Y'll know what *that* is a sign of. Gimme a nice trackball, any day.... PPS: Anyone ever use one of those early 'heads-up' displays that had a headband and projected a virtual image that appeared to be hanging in space in front of you? The one I tried had vibrating scanning mirrors that buzzed via bone-conduction... made me nauseous... no sale! From runtime at wzrd.com Wed Dec 18 13:02:01 2002 From: runtime at wzrd.com (Don Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: AlphaServer 2000/300 aka Jensen Message-ID: <KGEIJLPEPFDKEIGNPFPIKEFDDKAA.runtime@wzrd.com> I've got one of these that I used extensively a few years ago (superceded by AS300 4/266 and then a C*q DS10) that won't do anything at all. No SRM console comes up. Problem is that about 3 years ago I removed the memory, which consisted of what it came with (DEC standard 32 MB) plus a 64 MB set which I believe was actually an IBM product. When I took the faithful 2000 out of service I put as much of its memory as I could into the AS 300 4/266, and gave the AS300 it to a client (out of state). When I went back to the 2000 to get it ready to give away to a student group that wants to run Linux on it, I realized that I'd removed all of the memory and could not remember how to populate the slots. I do remember that when I put the 64 meg in it wouldn't work at first, but Field Service told me I had to interleave the 8 mb sticks and the 16 mb sticks. So, I'd be grateful if anybody could answer these questions: 1. How are the 8 slots populated, normally? 2. Should I see the SRM even with no memory, or memory incorrectly installed? 3. Is "54-21246-FA" (2MX33) DEC memory AS2000 memory or AlphaStation 200 memory? (I've had a few of those around the shop over the years). Thanks in advance. I'm glad I found this group. I started my business with a VT103 / RX02 / RT11 v3 combo, went through Micro-11/23, then 73, then MicroVAX 3100, AS2000, AS300, and now the DS10. Don Mitchell runtime@wzrd.com www.run-time.com From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Dec 18 13:02:36 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: The ACE is recovering :-) In-Reply-To: <m18O6R2-000IzIC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEAEOBCFAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 17 December 2002 01:22 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: The ACE is recovering :-) > > AFAIK most of the complete ACEs were sold by Boldfield. They had a few > 'special deals' to students where they threw in a lot of games tapes, etc > (how do you think I ended up with the games ;-)). Good stuff - do you mind if I add this to the Ace page in the museum? > A few years ago I met the chap who'd bought the rights to the ACE > firmware. I obviously can't speak for him, but he struck me as a true > hacker (I met him at a talk I was giving on the PDP11/45 -- non-hackers > don't normally come to talks about processor microcode...). I would > therefore be suprised if he had any objections to reasonable hackish use > of the firmware (such as keeping backups, etc). Smart - I like people like that :) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From root at parse.com Wed Dec 18 13:03:03 2002 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: Old TI analog sound chip; info? [THANKS] Message-ID: <200212181401.JAA02385@parse.com> Thanks to all who replied, it was the 76477 chip I was thinking of, and thanks for the links to the PDF files! Appreciate it! Cheers, -RK -- Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com From ken at seefried.com Wed Dec 18 13:05:01 2002 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: AMD2901CDC chip available In-Reply-To: <20021218180001.86586.94293.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20021218180001.86586.94293.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20021218203316.10431.qmail@mail.seefried.com> From: Ethan Dicks <erd_6502@yahoo.com> > > In particular, I recognize > the 2910 as appearing on the Tandon SASI<->ST506 board in the Commodore > D9060 and D9090 drives. ISTR it's much like the 2901 but wider than 4 > bits - kind of an integrated building block for those designers who are > more concerned with real estate than extracting every last feature the > 2901 has to offer, i.e., a compact short-cut. Nope, 2910 is a microprogram address sequencer for the 2901 series. There are, however, a number of "2901 with more bits" chips, however. The IDT IDT49402/IDT49410A is the equivalent of 4 2901 slices (16-bits) + the apropos microprogram sequencer logic. Cypress had the CY7C9101, which was similar. WSI had the WS59032, which consisted of 8 2901 equivalents. Innovasic has the IA59032, which is an ASIC reimplimentation of the WSI chip and is still availible. Ken From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Dec 18 13:08:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: working 11/70s available for $$$, one w/PEP-70 & hypercache In-Reply-To: <F85AF5F4-1114-11D7-BC90-000393970B96@neurotica.com> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021213143151.03d50cf8@ubanproductions.com> <F85AF5F4-1114-11D7-BC90-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <32962.64.169.63.74.1040238654.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Tom Uban wrote: > So, for those who are inclined > to spend money on their hobby computers instead of on PCs, here is the > info. Dave McGuire wrote: > I find this insinuation offensive. I never spend so much as a dime > on PCs. ;) So what's to be offended about? If you spend under $0.10 on PCs, and over $0.09 on hobby computers, you meet Tom's criterion. From cb at mythtech.net Wed Dec 18 13:36:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? Message-ID: <S.0000098810@mythtech.net> > I submit for your consideration, the "Gyro Mouse"... having gyros on >the two axes - the object being you hold it in mid-air and wave it around >to move the cursor, etc. (It was wired, BTW) > > I saw one years ago, had to have it, and soon found out it's obvious >design flaw... you try keeping your arm and hand and mouse off the desk >for hours at a time.... I don't think the Gyro Mouse was ever meant as a normal mouse replacement. I think it was meant for doing presentations, where you would most likely not have a surface to run the mouse over as you would be standing in the front of some group, and could do nothing more than wave your hand. In that context, the design was fantastic... but yeah, I think it would have been a PITA to use in place of a normal mouse. >PS: People who use mice have clean desks, and Y'll know what *that* is a >sign of. Gimme a nice trackball, any day.... I use a mouse (two of them, one for my Mac, one for my PC), also have two keyboards... but I hardly have a clean desk... I have just barely enough room to move the mice on a pad (at current, I have my soda cup sitting on the corner of the pad as it was the only clear spot on my desk). I just turn the mouse tracking speed WAY up, so that I can cover the screen with just a slight flick of the wrist. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net> From at258 at osfn.org Wed Dec 18 13:55:01 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: System/23 Support Disks In-Reply-To: <20021218071308.78219.qmail@web40709.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021218145654.8936A-100000@osfn.org> No, the 23 and the 32 are different. The small 23 is the datamaster, the large one is about the size of 2 Wang OIS's. We're looking for a System 32 ourselves. On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Bill Allen Jr wrote: > Chris, > > are you talking about the sys/32? > > i have never heard of the sys/23. > > i do have some sys/32 disks - not the ones you > mentioned, though. > > i still have the manuals (tech binders) with the > schematics and trouble shooting stuff and i may have > the sys/32 ssp and a few other disks around here > somewhere. > > i still have two sys 34's and one sys/36 in my > collection - one of the 34's and the 36 are rare > config's - they both have extended chassi's and extra > hard (disk) drives in them. > > the 34 has 2 hd's and the 36 has three hd's. > > it's really interesting that the 34 has 8 inches of > chassi added to it and the 36 has three feet of chassi > added to it. > > i do have alot of sys/36 software and some sys/34 > software. > > if you do have a sys/32 - you can have the manuals and > software - just arrange shipping. > > i no longer have a sys/32 and no longer need the > stuff. > > Bill (n8uhn at yahoo dot com) > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Dec 18 14:00:00 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? Message-ID: <EFCC02DCB43BE04989267F883F7237870B446C@denmails1.jdedwards.com> There was an article on scratch-building models in a recent Model Railroad Craftsman magazine that said that, no matter how big your work bench, sooner or later, you'll end up with about two square feet of usable, clear workspace. BTW, I use an arcade model track ball that was a prototype for a museum exhibit installation 10 years ago (and thus on topic). I've only needed to oil the bearings once, about 6 months ago. Never had to clean it. Try that with a mouse! Bob -----Original Message----- From: chris [mailto:cb@mythtech.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 1:39 PM To: Classic Computer Subject: RE: Computers with ports coming out the front? <snip> >PS: People who use mice have clean desks, and Y'll know what *that* is a >sign of. Gimme a nice trackball, any day.... I use a mouse (two of them, one for my Mac, one for my PC), also have two keyboards... but I hardly have a clean desk... I have just barely enough room to move the mice on a pad (at current, I have my soda cup sitting on the corner of the pad as it was the only clear spot on my desk). I just turn the mouse tracking speed WAY up, so that I can cover the screen with just a slight flick of the wrist. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Dec 18 14:51:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212181316590.20772-100000@panix3.panix.com> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021218155150.11490A-100000@osfn.org> > I submit for your consideration, the "Gyro Mouse"... having gyros on > the two axes - the object being you hold it in mid-air and wave it around > to move the cursor, etc. (It was wired, BTW) Not for shipboard use. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 18 15:47:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? In-Reply-To: <S.0000098810@mythtech.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212180548550.31967-100000@siconic.com> On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, chris wrote: > I use a mouse (two of them, one for my Mac, one for my PC), also have two > keyboards... but I hardly have a clean desk... I have just barely enough > room to move the mice on a pad (at current, I have my soda cup sitting on > the corner of the pad as it was the only clear spot on my desk). I've poured a couple sodas and at least one glass of wine all over my mousepad and desk as a result of placing the glass in front of the mousepad and then forgetting it was there as I reached over to the mouse :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From donm at cts.com Wed Dec 18 16:19:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: Computer Audio Tape Formats In-Reply-To: <200212180240.SAA03315@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0212181420380.95814-100000@crash.cts.com> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com > > > >On Dec 17, 20:11, John Lawson wrote: > >> Sheeesh!!! No excuse for posting before checking references.... > >> > >> Another Senior Moment > > > >We're all having them tonight, it seems :-) > > > > While I can get a senior discount at restaurants, that > doesn't mean I'm having a senior moment. > Does it? > Dwight Only if you are embarrassed by it! - don From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Dec 18 18:02:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: OT: Detachable Penis (was Re: 1977 Apple II for sale.) References: <200212180257.SAA03836@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212172217560.5011-100000@instinct.bears.org> Message-ID: <3E010DD5.3020909@tiac.net> Actually, that was a Dave Edmunds 'cover' before Huey cut his version. So who did the orignal?? r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: >On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > >>>>>"... for a dollar ninety-nine!" >>>>> >>>>You must be thinking of a different song. He talked him down from $22 to >>>>$17. >>>> >>>Seymore Crelbourn bought Audry 2 "for a dollar ninety-nine" >>> >>*slaps forehead* Yep, you're right. >> > >Not only that, but Huey Lewis bought nearly twice as much of the so-called >"baddest stew in the land" as he could stomach, for that price. (; > >ok >r. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021218/7ffad788/attachment.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 18 18:03:50 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212171821590.19668-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> from "Fred Cisin" at Dec 17, 2 06:24:27 pm Message-ID: <m18OncC-000IzYC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 936 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021218/8c4957f9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 18 18:05:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: AMD2901CDC chip available In-Reply-To: <20021218030434.82201.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 17, 2 07:04:34 pm Message-ID: <m18Onhw-000IzbC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1351 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021218/9e794831/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 18 18:05:25 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: Old TI analog sound chip; info? In-Reply-To: <20021218070033.3680.qmail@web40707.mail.yahoo.com> from "Bill Allen Jr" at Dec 17, 2 11:00:33 pm Message-ID: <m18Onli-000IzlC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 822 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021218/e803a56e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 18 18:05:45 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 monitor In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20021218234330.00fb7db4@mail.optushome.com.au> from "Dr. Ido" at Dec 18, 2 11:43:30 pm Message-ID: <m18Onui-000IznC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1937 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021218/30b47275/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 18 18:06:06 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021218015437.018cdb40@slave> from "Adrian Vickers" at Dec 18, 2 01:56:02 am Message-ID: <m18OnX1-000IzSC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 451 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021218/bc77da11/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 18 18:06:27 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: The ACE is recovering :-) In-Reply-To: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEAEOBCFAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> from "Witchy" at Dec 18, 2 01:55:59 pm Message-ID: <m18Onxw-000IzoC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 714 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021218/4b53560f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 18 18:06:52 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212171818230.19668-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> from "Fred Cisin" at Dec 17, 2 06:19:59 pm Message-ID: <m18OnZU-000IzUC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1043 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021218/71afbe1a/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Dec 18 18:19:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <m18OncC-000IzYC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212181618350.64-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> > > And it's usually NOT a good idea to put your LAST boot disk into the > > drive! Although normally not a problem with most "normal" drives, there > > have been SOME (most notably Apple ][) that were capable of malfuntioning > > in ways that would cause them to erase/wipe/damage/ diskettes even when > > write-protected! > > What an amazing feature! On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > _Any_ drive if malfucntioning could have write-gate stuck on and also > ignore the write protect line. After all, those signals are combined in > the logic circuitry somehow, and those gates could malfunction. Ooops! I meant to say that on the Apple ][ a malfunctiong disk controller could override write protect, even on a non-malfunctioning drive. THAT is the special unique feature. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Dec 18 19:49:01 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk Message-ID: <6.50c076c.2b327ff2@aol.com> In a message dated 12/18/2002 7:53:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, cisin@xenosoft.com writes: << > > And it's usually NOT a good idea to put your LAST boot disk into the > > drive! Although normally not a problem with most "normal" drives, there > > have been SOME (most notably Apple ][) that were capable of malfuntioning > > in ways that would cause them to erase/wipe/damage/ diskettes even when > > write-protected! > > What an amazing feature! On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > _Any_ drive if malfucntioning could have write-gate stuck on and also > ignore the write protect line. After all, those signals are combined in > the logic circuitry somehow, and those gates could malfunction. Ooops! I meant to say that on the Apple ][ a malfunctiong disk controller could override write protect, even on a non-malfunctioning drive. THAT is the special unique feature. >> I had that happen once! Ruined a number of my floppies until I finally figured it out. Bought one from Jameco for either $50 or $80 way back in the late 1980s. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From glenslick at hotmail.com Wed Dec 18 20:17:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: PDP11/44 update, dead wierd fan (35VAC, 75Hz) Message-ID: <F89l06sIQrttDRdNOUi0000b850@hotmail.com> Well I managed to get a M7095 module ($25 plus shipping) for the PDP11/44 I recently acquired and now I can connect to the console >>> prompt after powering it on. Plus I figured out how to execute the firmware utility on the CMD CDU-720 (anyone have docs for this board?) so it appears that the system is fairly functional. However, after a while I noticed that some of the modules seemed to be running rather hot and then I noticed that one of the three fans is not working. I pulled out the fan tray and found that I can manually spin up the two good fans with little effort but the bad fan sticks and won't spin. These fans are labeled Torin TA450 Model A3102-10 35VAC 75Hz. Anyone know where a replacement fan could be obtained? _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Dec 18 20:28:01 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: System/23 Support Disks References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212180034040.31268-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <002c01c2a706$9935afb0$513bcd18@D73KSM11> > On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > The S/23 I displayed at VCF 5 (2 drives, 96K RAM) can be seen in the following > > photo from the show, partially obscured, on the right. > > > > http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/vcf5/david_cavenaugh.jpg > > On the right of your exhibit but to the left of David Kavanaugh's head ;) > It's always all about me. -W From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Dec 18 20:39:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: PDP11/44 update, dead wierd fan (35VAC, 75Hz) In-Reply-To: <F89l06sIQrttDRdNOUi0000b850@hotmail.com> References: <F89l06sIQrttDRdNOUi0000b850@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <20021219030628.GD7890@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Glen S, from writings of Wed, Dec 18, 2002 at 06:19:20PM -0800: > These fans are labeled Torin TA450 Model A3102-10 35VAC 75Hz. Anyone > know where a replacement fan could be obtained? What you don't need is a replacement fan. :-) I had a similar problem when I got my 11/44 several years ago; Tony Duell kindly instructed me on the _proper_ way to solve this problem. From memory: all that you need to do is disassemble this fan, and the other fans, soak the bearings in mineral spirits to clean them, relubricate the bearings/bearing race with white lithium grease and reassemble the fans. Do this with all of the fans, working or not. Tony, if you're reading this, is my memory about what to use for that procedure correct? ...somewhere I've still got my notes/e-mail from several years ago, but would have to do some digging to find it. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From n8uhn at yahoo.com Wed Dec 18 20:44:18 2002 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: computer audio tape formats Message-ID: <20021219024516.60586.qmail@web40701.mail.yahoo.com> I seem to remember that eather "radio electronics" or "rainbow" magazine had an article on how to build a computer audio tape conditioner. it was for the coco. On Tuesday 17 December 2002 9:50 pm, tim lindner wrote: > I am looking for information regarding how various computers wrote > information to audio tapes. > > For example, the Tandy Color Computer wrote ones and zeros to audio tape > in the following format: > > 'one bit': one sinusoidal cycle @ 2400 Hertz. > 'zero bit': one sinusoidal cycle @ 1200 Hertz. > > The bit rate is variable on a CoCo tape. But averages to about 1500 bits > per second. > > I am contemplating creating an audio tape anaylzer to help me recover > some data. I would like to make the program useful to thoes outside the > Color Computer community. But first I need to understand all of the > different methods used to put data on audio tape. --__--__-- __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From glenslick at hotmail.com Wed Dec 18 21:03:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: PDP11/44 update, dead wierd fan (35VAC, 75Hz) Message-ID: <F170skqC5EtrUVYKkpL00003094@hotmail.com> I found this thread from 4 years ago. I'll give it a try... http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/1998-09/0953.html >From: "R. D. Davis" <rdd@rddavis.org> >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: PDP11/44 update, dead wierd fan (35VAC, 75Hz) >Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 22:06:28 -0500 > >What you don't need is a replacement fan. :-) I had a similar problem >when I got my 11/44 several years ago; Tony Duell kindly instructed me >on the _proper_ way to solve this problem. _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Dec 18 21:17:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 In-Reply-To: <m18O8lT-0003ffC@nomad> References: Your message of Sun, 15 Dec 2002 23:18:51 +0100 . <m18O8lT-0003ffC@nomad> Message-ID: <4865.4.20.168.234.1040267924.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> computermuseum@pandora.be wrote: >I've got into my garage an IBM 5120 machine with his printer and an bstuart@bellsouth.net wrote: > Is this another name for the 5100 with APL option? No, though it is related. The 5100 was available with APL, Basic, or both, had an internal tape drive, and could support one external tape drive (or two external tape drives as an RPQ option). The 5110 was an improved 5100, which was also available with APL, Basic, or both. The internal tape drive became optional, and it could support external disk drives. The APL and BASIC interpreters were somewhat improved over those of the 5100. The 5120 is a 5110 packaged in a larger case with built-in disk drives. It's also known as a 5110 Model 3 (or was it Model 2?). From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Dec 18 21:37:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: [OT] feeding leeches (was Re: 1977 Apple II for sale.) In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021216115635.16476B-100000@osfn.org> References: <1040002609.13147.3.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021216115635.16476B-100000@osfn.org> Message-ID: <2108.4.20.168.234.1040269193.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I get great solace from telling people about my leech tank, and how > tiresome feeding time can be. Why? What do you feed them to? From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Dec 18 23:55:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: [OT] feeding leeches (was Re: 1977 Apple II for sale.) References: <1040002609.13147.3.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021216115635.16476B-100000@osfn.org> <2108.4.20.168.234.1040269193.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3E015F42.6010001@jetnet.ab.ca> Eric Smith wrote: >>I get great solace from telling people about my leech tank, and how >>tiresome feeding time can be. > > > Why? What do you feed them to? > > > > Not to people I hope, you want to keep them healty right. :) From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Thu Dec 19 00:59:01 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: AlphaServer 2000/300 aka Jensen In-Reply-To: <KGEIJLPEPFDKEIGNPFPIKEFDDKAA.runtime@wzrd.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021219175915.02323e80@mail.vsm.com.au> At 05:46 PM 17/12/2002 -0500, Don Mitchell wrote: >I've got one of these that I used extensively a >few years ago (superceded by AS300 4/266 and >then a C*q DS10) that won't do anything at all. >No SRM console comes up. > >So, I'd be grateful if anybody could answer >these questions: > >1. How are the 8 slots populated, normally? I can't remember if the order is top to bottom but you need to populate in the order 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 >2. Should I see the SRM even with no memory, or >memory incorrectly installed? I doubt it - SRM needs memory to run in. >3. Is "54-21246-FA" (2MX33) DEC memory AS2000 >memory or AlphaStation 200 memory? (I've had a >few of those around the shop over the years). I suspect any 36 bit true parity memory will work but don't blame me if the smoke escapes :-) Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From foo at siconic.com Thu Dec 19 01:05:03 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:43 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212181618350.64-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212181505530.634-100000@siconic.com> On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > I meant to say that on the Apple ][ a malfunctiong disk controller could > override write protect, even on a non-malfunctioning drive. THAT is the > special unique feature. I once had a drive that was over-riding the write protect mechanism on the floppy because the write-protect sensor failed in some manner. I think I've only ever once come across a bad disk controller on the Apple. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Dec 19 02:18:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Old TI analog sound chip; info? References: <m18Onli-000IzlC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <003001c2a737$bc487420$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Tony Duell wrote: > Somewhere I have an SPO256 (and external ROM) which can speak the > words for a digital clock (numbers, 'hundred hours', 'wake up' (or > some other 'alarm' message) and so on) I've got four SPO256A-AL2s - all working. I'll be damned if I can find those pesky 3.12MHz crystals though. Best offer I had was ?10 each, custom cut. > The CTS256 was actually a pre-programmed PIC7000 (or TMS7000) > microcontroller, BTW. Or at least the pinout matched perfectly. I'm still looking for a CTS256, just in case anyone here has a spare. I've always wanted to make an RS232 TTS board. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Dec 19 02:25:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Wanted: Fairchild uA79MG voltage regulator Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212190222570.771-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> I've been looking for a replacement uA79MG negative voltage regulator for awhile, but so far haven't been able to find one. It is for a custom power supply for an embedded system made in the early 1980s. Fairchild's part number for the device is uA79MGU1C, which they call a 'Power Watt' package. It actually looks like a TO-220, but has 4 leads. The regulator bolts to a heat sink on the supply's board. I need at least one of these parts, but could use a spare or two if someone has a bunch hiding away in their parts cabinet. I could also use a couple spare uA78MG (uA78MGU1C) regulators too, but they would just be put away as spares for these power supplies. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Dec 19 02:40:02 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Old TI analog sound chip; info? In-Reply-To: <003001c2a737$bc487420$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> References: <m18Onli-000IzlC@p850ug1> <003001c2a737$bc487420$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212190239180.771-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Tony Duell wrote: > > > Somewhere I have an SPO256 (and external ROM) which can speak the > > words for a digital clock (numbers, 'hundred hours', 'wake up' (or > > some other 'alarm' message) and so on) > > I've got four SPO256A-AL2s - all working. I'll be damned if I can find > those pesky 3.12MHz crystals though. Best offer I had was 10 each, > custom cut. You might want to check out [http://www.speechchips.com/]. They have the 3.12MHz crystals for $3.00US/ea. You might also be able to get away with substituting a 3.579545MHz "Colorburst" crystal. Colorburst crystals are extremely common, and very inexpensive. Radio Shack used to carry them as 272-1310, but they've been discontinued like most of the other useful parts. It appears that many folks used those crystals instead of 3.12MHz since they were commonly available. > > The CTS256 was actually a pre-programmed PIC7000 (or TMS7000) > > microcontroller, BTW. Or at least the pinout matched perfectly. > > I'm still looking for a CTS256, just in case anyone here has a spare. > I've always wanted to make an RS232 TTS board. The site I mentioned above claims to have them at $10.00US/ea. -Toth From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Dec 19 08:05:01 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Nice Find today and some good books In-Reply-To: <008a01c2a69e$c7ec2220$5451ef42@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEOEOKCFAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Keys > Sent: 18 December 2002 14:07 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Nice Find today and some good books > > > Thanks for the nice pic, now I have to find some cartridges, the gun, and > power supply for it. I got the second controller on my next trip > to the same > store, funny how they separate things. :-) I'd keep going back then - you might get the rest of the stuff before new year! cheers witchy > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Witchy" <witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> > To: <cctech@classiccmp.org> > Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 2:19 PM > Subject: RE: Nice Find today and some good books > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > > Behalf Of Keys > > > Sent: 10 December 2002 02:56 > > > To: cctalk@classiccmp > > > Subject: Nice Find today and some good books > > > > > > > > > Found a Micro Genius IQ-501 Computer Game console and one > > > controller/joystick for it at a thrift. It's a NES/Famicom > Pirate Clone. > > > You can see it a this site page down to the bottom: > > > http://www.gamersgraveyard.com/repository/nes/pirate/pirate-clones > > > -A-M.html > > > > Hells, mine's in far better condition than that one and look how much I > paid > > for it! > > > > http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Clones/microgenius.jpg > > > > Pity it doesn't work :( > > > > -- > > adrian/witchy > > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans > > > > > From kerry.power at chcc.nsw.gov.au Thu Dec 19 08:06:55 2002 From: kerry.power at chcc.nsw.gov.au (Kerry Power) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: TEK 213 Message-ID: <21CA23A54FA8D1118E7B00805FCC0B8D0229B11E@MAIL> Hi, John. I got your address whilst searching for info on a TEK 213; you came up on a chat room. I bought a 213 recently at a government auction here in Australia, but it doesn't work properly. The 213s seem to be as rare as rocking-horse-droppings here, and I can't find a manual. Are you able to copy the manual you have?? If so, what would it cost?? If it's too difficult or expensive, maybe just the circuit diagrams & views of the PCBs. I'm not sure about postage, it might fit a large Global Priority Envelope at US$9. I'd appreciate any help. Regards, Kerry. From nickmiller at charter.net Thu Dec 19 08:07:21 2002 From: nickmiller at charter.net (Nick Miller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? References: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEAEMJCFAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212171852330.1771-100000@instinct.bears.org> Message-ID: <019601c2a6eb$b3188850$7a00a8c0@themillers> The Amiga 1000 has a front mounted memory expansion port. It's covered (or should be anyway) if that matters. Nick From vance at neurotica.com Thu Dec 19 11:00:27 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212181618350.64-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212191124080.20490-100000@mail.neurotica.com> On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > And it's usually NOT a good idea to put your LAST boot disk into the > > > drive! Although normally not a problem with most "normal" drives, there > > > have been SOME (most notably Apple ][) that were capable of malfuntioning > > > in ways that would cause them to erase/wipe/damage/ diskettes even when > > > write-protected! > > > What an amazing feature! > > On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > _Any_ drive if malfucntioning could have write-gate stuck on and also > > ignore the write protect line. After all, those signals are combined in > > the logic circuitry somehow, and those gates could malfunction. > > Ooops! > I meant to say that on the Apple ][ a malfunctiong disk controller could > override write protect, even on a non-malfunctioning drive. THAT is the > special unique feature. IBM PS/2's usually read and write low-density disks high-density. Peace... Sridhar From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Dec 19 11:58:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: TEK 213 In-Reply-To: <21CA23A54FA8D1118E7B00805FCC0B8D0229B11E@MAIL> References: <21CA23A54FA8D1118E7B00805FCC0B8D0229B11E@MAIL> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212191249500.29106-100000@panix2.panix.com> On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Kerry Power wrote: > Hi, John. > > I got your address whilst searching for info on a TEK 213; you came up on a > chat room. I bought a 213 recently at a government auction here in > Australia, but it doesn't work properly. The 213s seem to be as rare as I'm not sure which of us 'Johns' he's referring to, but I've responded privately to him.... I have the manuals for the 213, and I've offered to supply them or help diagnose/repair the scope in question. Just an FYI to The List... Cheers and Best of the Season John From mbg at TheWorld.com Thu Dec 19 12:37:01 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Y2K/Y10K for V5.03 of RT-11 Message-ID: <200212191839.NAA76406593@shell.TheWorld.com> I'm interested in what you propose, but suspect that Y10K would be overkill at this point. I'd like to see design discussion opened up for that... but it may all be moot since it wouldn't be compatible with V5.4, V5.5, V5.6, V5.7... ... and it is the sort of change which would truly affect everything in the system, requiring sources to rebuild the fixes... since no-one but Mentec has rights to the sources, the product of any such change would be strictly illegal, so I am wondering how you are proposing to get around that. Megan From mbg at TheWorld.com Thu Dec 19 12:40:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Y2K/Y10K for V5.03 of RT-11 Message-ID: <200212191840.NAA80821614@shell.TheWorld.com> Okay, that was supposed to have been private... (sometimes the reply to list is a pain... but it's my own fault). Megan From runtime at wzrd.com Thu Dec 19 12:47:00 2002 From: runtime at wzrd.com (Don Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: AlphaServer 2000/300 aka Jensen Message-ID: <KGEIJLPEPFDKEIGNPFPIOEGKDKAA.runtime@wzrd.com> Thanks, Huw. It came up with 4 sticks of 4 MB 36bit memory, placed n alternate slots down from the top. I now think that it won't ever come up w/o 4 sticks of something -- I had 2 sticks of 16mb memory (the other 2 went into the 300 4/266) and I guess it just won't boot w/o 4 sticks. Thanks again. Now the kids can have it and do their Linux thing. I'll chase down some memory, or they can. Don From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 19 13:13:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212181505530.634-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212191106120.18010-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> > > I meant to say that on the Apple ][ a malfunctiong disk controller could > > override write protect, even on a non-malfunctioning drive. THAT is the > > special unique feature. On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > I once had a drive that was over-riding the write protect mechanism on the > floppy because the write-protect sensor failed in some manner. Yep. many things can do that, even loose mounting screws for the switch. Had one client who used clear scotch tape for write protect. He INSISTED that something else must be wrong, since that had always worked right on his previous machine. I remember when Centech first came out with cheap colored 5.25" diskettes, some drives couldn't use them due to a photocell to detect disk presence that was getting some light through the disk! > I think I've only ever once come across a bad disk controller on the > Apple. Although I did VERY little with Apple stuff (you will recall that I only had two Apples when I closed my office), I encountered berserk controllers wiping disks three times. Two were OEM, one was generic after-market. One of them was a client, who when he found that he couldn't boot, had assigned his secretary to systematically try every disk in the file cabinet. THAT was why I expressed the caveat of "never put you LAST boot disk into the machine". From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 19 13:30:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212191124080.20490-100000@mail.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212191123220.18010-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> > > I meant to say that on the Apple ][ a malfunctiong disk controller could > > override write protect, even on a non-malfunctioning drive. THAT is the > > special unique feature. On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > IBM PS/2's usually read and write low-density disks high-density. The lack of a "media density sensor" is inexcusable. 'Course there were some who thought that was a "feature", since they could then take a perfectly good 600 oerstedt ("720K") diskette, and turn it into a poor quality 750 oerstedt ("1.4M") But I still think that that is less egregious than having write-protect processed externally from the drive. Although any write-protect system CAN (and will?) malfunction, having it done by circuitry on the controller, without letting the drive control it, is irresponsible. From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Dec 19 13:41:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Computers with ports coming out the front? In-Reply-To: <019601c2a6eb$b3188850$7a00a8c0@themillers> Message-ID: <3E01CD05.8095.24EF8D@localhost> The IBM PS/1 20xx models also had a memory slot on the front behind a faceplate. Lawrence On 18 Dec 2002, , Nick Miller wrote: > The Amiga 1000 has a front mounted memory expansion port. > It's covered (or should be anyway) if that matters. > > Nick > > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Dec 19 15:48:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: TEK 213 References: <21CA23A54FA8D1118E7B00805FCC0B8D0229B11E@MAIL> Message-ID: <011301c2a7a8$aa758cd0$c450ef42@oemcomputer> I will have to find it and see how big it is? I moved to Texas back in Dec01/Jan02 and it could be here or in storage up North. If I can locate it I will try and help. Happy Holidays !!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerry Power" <kerry.power@chcc.nsw.gov.au> To: <cctech@classiccmp.org> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 3:44 PM Subject: TEK 213 > Hi, John. > > I got your address whilst searching for info on a TEK 213; you came up on a > chat room. I bought a 213 recently at a government auction here in > Australia, but it doesn't work properly. The 213s seem to be as rare as > rocking-horse-droppings here, and I can't find a manual. Are you able to > copy the manual you have?? If so, what would it cost?? If it's too > difficult or expensive, maybe just the circuit diagrams & views of the PCBs. > I'm not sure about postage, it might fit a large Global Priority Envelope at > US$9. > > I'd appreciate any help. > > Regards, Kerry. > From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Dec 19 15:52:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: AlphaServer 2000/300 aka Jensen In-Reply-To: <KGEIJLPEPFDKEIGNPFPIOEGKDKAA.runtime@wzrd.com> References: <KGEIJLPEPFDKEIGNPFPIOEGKDKAA.runtime@wzrd.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212191543390.897-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Don Mitchell wrote: > Thanks, Huw. It came up with 4 sticks of 4 MB 36bit memory, placed n > alternate slots down from the top. I now think that it won't ever come > up w/o 4 sticks of something -- I had 2 sticks of 16mb memory (the other > 2 went into the 300 4/266) and I guess it just won't boot w/o 4 sticks. > > Thanks again. Now the kids can have it and do their Linux thing. I'll > chase down some memory, or they can. The AS 1000 series also has a tricky memory scheme. It actually requires 5 SIMMs per bank. It uses the first 4 as one would normally expect, and uses the 5th for ECC. I managed to find the manual for the AS1000 on DEC/Compaq/HP's ftp server, so you might be able to find the one for your system too. I believe it was linked from a Compaq support web page of some sort. -Toth From dittman at dittman.net Thu Dec 19 16:06:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: AlphaServer 2000/300 aka Jensen In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212191543390.897-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> from "Tothwolf" at Dec 19, 2002 03:46:55 PM Message-ID: <200212192207.gBJM7WjO006066@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > Thanks, Huw. It came up with 4 sticks of 4 MB 36bit memory, placed n > > alternate slots down from the top. I now think that it won't ever come > > up w/o 4 sticks of something -- I had 2 sticks of 16mb memory (the other > > 2 went into the 300 4/266) and I guess it just won't boot w/o 4 sticks. > > > > Thanks again. Now the kids can have it and do their Linux thing. I'll > > chase down some memory, or they can. > > The AS 1000 series also has a tricky memory scheme. It actually requires 5 > SIMMs per bank. It uses the first 4 as one would normally expect, and uses > the 5th for ECC. I got a "defective" AS1000A at a very low price. The "defect" was putting the memory in the wrong set of slots. Also, early 1000A systems also use five SIMMs per bank, but later 1000A systems just use four x36 SIMMs per bank. I did find with my early 1000A system I could use four x36 SIMMs in each bank rather than five SIMMs in each bank. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 19 16:53:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: PDP11/44 update, dead wierd fan (35VAC, 75Hz) In-Reply-To: <F89l06sIQrttDRdNOUi0000b850@hotmail.com> from "Glen S" at Dec 18, 2 06:19:20 pm Message-ID: <m18P8nd-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2587 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021219/c1164289/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 19 16:53:55 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: PDP11/44 update, dead wierd fan (35VAC, 75Hz) In-Reply-To: <20021219030628.GD7890@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Dec 18, 2 10:06:28 pm Message-ID: <m18P95k-000IzUC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 924 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021219/05ecb013/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 19 16:55:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Old TI analog sound chip; info? In-Reply-To: <003001c2a737$bc487420$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> from "Philip Pemberton" at Dec 19, 2 08:22:13 am Message-ID: <m18P9AU-000IzYC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1137 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021219/4db83bcf/attachment.ksh From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Dec 19 17:15:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: PDP11/44 update, dead wierd fan (35VAC, 75Hz) In-Reply-To: <m18P95k-000IzUC@p850ug1> References: <m18P95k-000IzUC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212191719400.897-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > on the _proper_ way to solve this problem. From memory: all that you > > need to do is disassemble this fan, and the other fans, soak the > > bearings in mineral spirits to clean them, relubricate the > > bearings/bearing race with white lithium grease and reassemble the > > fans. Do this with all of the fans, working or not. > > > > Tony, if you're reading this, is my memory about what to use for that > > procedure correct? ...somewhere I've still got my notes/e-mail from > > Yes, it should be fine. I used what's called 'white spirit' in the UK to > clean the bearings (this is a paint thinner/brush cleaner type stuff, I > have no idea what it's called elsewhere). I lubricated them with high > melting point grease (Castrol LM), but any bearing grease would be fine. It's often called mineral spirits here in the states. It can be purchased cheaply in large cans at any hardware/home center type store. One nice property when using it as a solvent cleaner, is that the "dirty" thinner can be put in a glass or metal container, and the grease/dirt, etc will settle to the bottom. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Dec 19 17:18:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: AlphaServer 2000/300 aka Jensen In-Reply-To: <200212192207.gBJM7WjO006066@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <200212192207.gBJM7WjO006066@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212191723510.897-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > The AS 1000 series also has a tricky memory scheme. It actually > > requires 5 SIMMs per bank. It uses the first 4 as one would normally > > expect, and uses the 5th for ECC. > > I got a "defective" AS1000A at a very low price. The "defect" was > putting the memory in the wrong set of slots. Sounds like you got a good deal ;) My AS1000 wouldn't power up when I got it, and the problem turned out to be a bad connection where the status/control panel's ribbon cable plugs into the backplane. > Also, early 1000A systems also use five SIMMs per bank, but later 1000A > systems just use four x36 SIMMs per bank. I did find with my early > 1000A system I could use four x36 SIMMs in each bank rather than five > SIMMs in each bank. Thanks for the tip, I'll certainly have to give that a try. -Toth From foo at siconic.com Thu Dec 19 17:45:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212191106120.18010-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212190746400.3186-100000@siconic.com> On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > I think I've only ever once come across a bad disk controller on the > > Apple. > > Although I did VERY little with Apple stuff (you will recall that I only > had two Apples when I closed my office), I encountered berserk controllers > wiping disks three times. Two were OEM, one was generic after-market. I'm speaking of Apple controllers. I haven't had much (if any) experience with third-party disk controllers for the Apple. One thing about Apple, they are expensive, but they're built very well. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 19 17:59:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212190746400.3186-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212191557300.206-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> > > had two Apples when I closed my office), I encountered berserk controllers > > wiping disks three times. Two were OEM, one was generic after-market. On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > I'm speaking of Apple controllers. I haven't had much (if any) experience > with third-party disk controllers for the Apple. "OEM" == "original equipment manufacturer" in other words REAL Apple. The ones that I encountered (YMMV) were two made by Apple, and one non-name imitation. Most of the after-market were pretty direct copied, although I remember seeing one that had some extra diagnostics and stuff. And, of course, there was the Sorrento Valley Associated board that did MFM in Apple ][ > One thing about Apple, they are expensive, but they're built very well. Most of their stuff was pretty good. But there were a few recurrent problems, specifically including the corners they cut on the disk system, and the crappy sockets that they used to use. From dan at ekoan.com Thu Dec 19 18:01:00 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Apple quality, was Re: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212190746400.3186-100000@siconic.com> References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212191106120.18010-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021219190353.043d0ec0@enigma> At 07:47 AM 12/19/02 -0800, you wrote: >One thing about Apple, they are expensive, but they're built very well. I have to disagree here -- I have a PowerBook G4 that is not "built very well." The battery latch no longer releases the battery -- a screwdriver is necessary to pry it out. The rubber nubs on either side of the keyboard are gone, leading to an impression of the keyboard pressed into the screen. The latch doesn't always close correctly, or stay closed. Several co-workers have had the case around the headphone jack crack. The hinge eventually loses friction, leading to the inability to keep the screen at the desired angle. Ask Tom Owad about the paint coming off his G4. Cheers, Dan From dmabry at mich.com Thu Dec 19 18:15:00 2002 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Question about TI calculator Message-ID: <3E026102.3010408@mich.com> I became the grateful recipient of a TI Programmer today. A buddy at work said "here, you like calculators, right? Better than throwing it away." Well, I said "thanks!" Now, in looking about the internet for some info on the battery styles for these things, I have a couple of questions that I cound't find the answer to. This calculator has a battery pack called BP-8 which has 2 AA ni-cads and a small circuit in it. It connects to the calculator internally with a connector that would also mechanically mate to a 9 volt battery. Now I would not expect a 9 volt battery to work where 2 AA's work, but I'm not sure. In looking at Gene's web site he says the BP-8 is also used on the TI-30 and I see TI-30's on ebay saying that they work with 9 volt batteries. I will replace the two AA's with new ones. That should make the BP-8 good again. I guess the is a roundabout way of asking for some background on the power requirements of this calculator. Unfortunately my buddy had lost the AC adapter (apparently it was an AC-9132, thanks Gene!). So I'll be looking for one of those. 5.7v, 240ma, and that small 2-pin connector. Thanks for any help. -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From dmabry at mich.com Thu Dec 19 18:30:01 2002 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Question about TI calculator References: <3E026102.3010408@mich.com> Message-ID: <3E026492.7020709@mich.com> Well, after a little more searching, it appears that the circuit inside the BP-8 battery pack is a step-up circuit to generate 9 volts. But I'll wait to hear from someone here with actual experience before I hook up a 9v battery. Dave Mabry wrote: > I became the grateful recipient of a TI Programmer today. A buddy at > work said "here, you like calculators, right? Better than throwing it > away." Well, I said "thanks!" > > Now, in looking about the internet for some info on the battery styles > for these things, I have a couple of questions that I cound't find the > answer to. > > This calculator has a battery pack called BP-8 which has 2 AA ni-cads > and a small circuit in it. It connects to the calculator internally > with a connector that would also mechanically mate to a 9 volt battery. > Now I would not expect a 9 volt battery to work where 2 AA's work, but > I'm not sure. In looking at Gene's web site he says the BP-8 is also > used on the TI-30 and I see TI-30's on ebay saying that they work with 9 > volt batteries. > > I will replace the two AA's with new ones. That should make the BP-8 > good again. > > I guess the is a roundabout way of asking for some background on the > power requirements of this calculator. Unfortunately my buddy had lost > the AC adapter (apparently it was an AC-9132, thanks Gene!). So I'll be > looking for one of those. 5.7v, 240ma, and that small 2-pin connector. > > Thanks for any help. -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Dec 19 18:38:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Surge protectors or fire hazard Message-ID: <200212200039.QAA04831@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I've just seen the third surge protector blow up and this time, it almost started a real fire. I've had two of these go up in smoke that were in metal strips. These generally make a lot of smoke but I think the metal spreads the heat enough that the fire danger is small. Now, most of the newer ones are made from plastic. The last one that just burned, started a small fire on the back side of a chest of drawers. Luckily, the chest didn't stay lit. It did charcoalize one of the feet. While these things come with a 15 amp breaker, the MOV's fail and draw something less then what is required to blow the breaker. I wonder if any of the fire prevention groups are looking into these time bombs? Dwight From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Dec 19 18:40:00 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Question about TI calculator In-Reply-To: <3E026492.7020709@mich.com> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212191639000.5134-100000@freeby.mesanet.com> On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Dave Mabry wrote: > Well, after a little more searching, it appears that the circuit inside > the BP-8 battery pack is a step-up circuit to generate 9 volts. But > I'll wait to hear from someone here with actual experience before I hook > up a 9v battery. My TI programmer has (and works well with) a 9V battery (the battery compartment door shows a picture of a 9V battery) and just a hole for where the charger goes. Is the connector for the charger part of the BP8? > > Dave Mabry wrote: > > I became the grateful recipient of a TI Programmer today. A buddy at > > work said "here, you like calculators, right? Better than throwing it > > away." Well, I said "thanks!" > > > > Now, in looking about the internet for some info on the battery styles > > for these things, I have a couple of questions that I cound't find the > > answer to. > > > > This calculator has a battery pack called BP-8 which has 2 AA ni-cads > > and a small circuit in it. It connects to the calculator internally > > with a connector that would also mechanically mate to a 9 volt battery. > > Now I would not expect a 9 volt battery to work where 2 AA's work, but > > I'm not sure. In looking at Gene's web site he says the BP-8 is also > > used on the TI-30 and I see TI-30's on ebay saying that they work with 9 > > volt batteries. > > > > I will replace the two AA's with new ones. That should make the BP-8 > > good again. > > > > I guess the is a roundabout way of asking for some background on the > > power requirements of this calculator. Unfortunately my buddy had lost > > the AC adapter (apparently it was an AC-9132, thanks Gene!). So I'll be > > looking for one of those. 5.7v, 240ma, and that small 2-pin connector. > > > > Thanks for any help. > > > -- > Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com > Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team > NACD #2093 > > > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From dmabry at mich.com Thu Dec 19 18:56:01 2002 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Question about TI calculator References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212191639000.5134-100000@freeby.mesanet.com> Message-ID: <3E026AEC.30203@mich.com> Yes, the connector for the ac adapter is part of the BP-8, as is the cover to the battery opening. There might have been a plain ole battery cover at one time for this one, but it was probably discarded when the original owner started using the rechargable pack. Peter C. Wallace wrote: > On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Dave Mabry wrote: > > >>Well, after a little more searching, it appears that the circuit inside >>the BP-8 battery pack is a step-up circuit to generate 9 volts. But >>I'll wait to hear from someone here with actual experience before I hook >>up a 9v battery. > > > > My TI programmer has (and works well with) a 9V battery (the battery > compartment door shows a picture of a 9V battery) and just a hole for where > the charger goes. > > Is the connector for the charger part of the BP8? > > > > Peter Wallace > Mesa Electronics > > . > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Dec 19 18:58:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Surge protectors or fire hazard In-Reply-To: <200212200039.QAA04831@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200212200039.QAA04831@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212191859330.897-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > I've just seen the third surge protector blow up and this time, it > almost started a real fire. I've had two of these go up in smoke that > were in metal strips. These generally make a lot of smoke but I think > the metal spreads the heat enough that the fire danger is small. Now, > most of the newer ones are made from plastic. The last one that just > burned, started a small fire on the back side of a chest of drawers. > Luckily, the chest didn't stay lit. It did charcoalize one of the feet. > While these things come with a 15 amp breaker, the MOV's fail and draw > something less then what is required to blow the breaker. > I wonder if any of the fire prevention groups are looking into these > time bombs? There is supposed to be a small fuse installed in-line with the group of MOVs, but some companies omit it and install a jumper wire in it's place. Often the fuse isn't a glass fuse, but just a small bit of fuse wire soldered directly to the pc board. The 15A breaker is just for equipment connected to the strip. -Toth From allain at panix.com Thu Dec 19 20:17:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212191123220.18010-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> Message-ID: <006b01c2a7ce$23049680$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) cisin@xenosoft.com wrote: > vance@neurotica.com wrote: >> IBM PS/2's usually read and write low-density disks high-density. > The lack of a "media density sensor" is inexcusable. Since both Fred and Van/Sridhar/ce checked in on this one I probably should shut up, but ISTR that Backup, for one, could & would check the dens. on the 1st disk in a set, but also could be caught Not looking for any Nth (N>1) disk in the set, if it was mismatched. But it wasn't like it couldn't check At All... (machine=PS2m60) My $0.02... John A. From rcini at optonline.net Thu Dec 19 20:55:01 2002 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: CompuPro RAM board settings Message-ID: <MHEPLKLGOHCDPEMJMCFAGEEHCBAA.rcini@optonline.net> Hello, all: I just got a CompuPro RAM20 memory board with no manual. I'm looking for the DIP switch settings specifically, but a copy of the manual would be very helpful. It's missing two chips...a 74LS74 at U6 and a 25LS2521 at U10. The memory array is 8 columns of 8 chips, type MM2147J. I'm thinking that these are 2kx1 chips, resulting in a 16k board. Any help appreciated. Thanks. Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1776 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021219/f1015568/winmail.bin From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 19 21:18:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: CompuPro RAM board settings In-Reply-To: <MHEPLKLGOHCDPEMJMCFAGEEHCBAA.rcini@optonline.net> References: <MHEPLKLGOHCDPEMJMCFAGEEHCBAA.rcini@optonline.net> Message-ID: <2791.4.20.168.234.1040354413.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Rich Cini wrote: > I just got a CompuPro RAM20 memory board with no manual. [...] > The memory array is 8 columns of 8 chips, type MM2147J. I'm thinking > that these are 2kx1 chips, resulting in a 16k board. They're 4K chips. Someone somewhere may have sold 2K chips (probably as half-good 4K chips), but they sure weren't very common. From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 19 21:19:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <006b01c2a7ce$23049680$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212191919001.14165-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> > >> IBM PS/2's usually read and write low-density disks high-density. > > The lack of a "media density sensor" is inexcusable. On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, John Allain wrote: > Since both Fred and Van/Sridhar/ce checked in on this one I probably > should shut up, but ISTR that Backup, for one, could & would check the > dens. on the 1st disk in a set, but also could be caught Not looking for > any Nth (N>1) disk in the set, if it was mismatched. But it wasn't like it > couldn't check At All... (machine=PS2m60) My $0.02... The problem that we were referring to was due to the physical absence of hardware to check for a media density hole. What BACKUP could/would do was to read what was previously recorded. Once formatted, the density was easily recognizable by whether a read was successful. But the lack of a sensor meant that FORMAT did not have a clue. From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Dec 19 21:35:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: AlphaServer 2000/300 aka Jensen In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20021219175915.02323e80@mail.vsm.com.au> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212192134190.1225-100000@george.home.org> On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Huw Davies wrote: > At 05:46 PM 17/12/2002 -0500, Don Mitchell wrote: > >I've got one of these that I used extensively a > >few years ago (superceded by AS300 4/266 and > >then a C*q DS10) that won't do anything at all. > >No SRM console comes up. > > > >So, I'd be grateful if anybody could answer > >these questions: > > > >1. How are the 8 slots populated, normally? > > I can't remember if the order is top to bottom but you need to populate > in the order 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 I have one in running condition at home -- I'll look at it sometime next week. I'd look now, but my garage is 1300 miles from here. :^) > >2. Should I see the SRM even with no memory, or > >memory incorrectly installed? > > I doubt it - SRM needs memory to run in. Nope. Won't boot without RAM. > >3. Is "54-21246-FA" (2MX33) DEC memory AS2000 > >memory or AlphaStation 200 memory? (I've had a > >few of those around the shop over the years). > > I suspect any 36 bit true parity memory will work but > don't blame me if the smoke escapes :-) Mine has some PNY and some Siemens (IIRC) in it, so I'm pretty certain generic 36-bit works. Doc From geoffr at zipcon.net Thu Dec 19 21:47:01 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: CompuPro RAM board settings In-Reply-To: <MHEPLKLGOHCDPEMJMCFAGEEHCBAA.rcini@optonline.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021219195050.03fd1ec0@mail.zipcon.net> a little googling returned the following... http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/1998-10/0706.html http://home.no.net/hamar/pcl.htm - This gent has his system still with a ram20 in it http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/1998-11/1894.html hope these help you. At 09:58 PM 12/19/02 -0500, you wrote: >Hello, all: > > I just got a CompuPro RAM20 memory board with no manual. I'm looking >for the DIP switch settings specifically, but a copy of the manual would be >very helpful. > > It's missing two chips...a 74LS74 at U6 and a 25LS2521 at U10. The >memory array is 8 columns of 8 chips, type MM2147J. I'm thinking that these >are 2kx1 chips, resulting in a 16k board. > > Any help appreciated. Thanks. > >Rich Cini >Collector of classic computers >Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project >Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ >/************************************************************/ > > From foo at siconic.com Thu Dec 19 22:30:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212191557300.206-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212191232070.3739-100000@siconic.com> On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > seeing one that had some extra diagnostics and stuff. And, of course, > there was the Sorrento Valley Associated board that did MFM in Apple ][ Ooh, juicy! Where can I get one of those? > > One thing about Apple, they are expensive, but they're built very well. > > Most of their stuff was pretty good. But there were a few recurrent > problems, specifically including the corners they cut on the disk system, > and the crappy sockets that they used to use. Well, when I go to boot one up after 10, 20, even 30 years, they still work 95% of the time. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Dec 19 22:32:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Apple quality, was Re: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021219190353.043d0ec0@enigma> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212191232570.3739-100000@siconic.com> On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Dan Veeneman wrote: > At 07:47 AM 12/19/02 -0800, you wrote: > >One thing about Apple, they are expensive, but they're built very well. > > I have to disagree here -- I have a PowerBook G4 that is not "built very well." Ok, I'll qualify that by saying this applies mostly to their older (pre 1990) stuff. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 19 22:55:02 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Apple disk controllers (was: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212191232070.3739-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212192051420.14165-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> > > seeing one that had some extra diagnostics and stuff. And, of course, > > there was the Sorrento Valley Associates board that did MFM in Apple][ On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Ooh, juicy! Where can I get one of those? It's been a while since I've seen one. They were mostly pushed in the 80s for being able to connect 8" drives! If you dig through the archives, your buddy Dick mentioned the SVA board a few times! > > > One thing about Apple, they are expensive, but they're built very well. > > Most of their stuff was pretty good. But there were a few recurrent > > problems, specifically including the corners they cut on the disk system, > > and the crappy sockets that they used to use. > Well, when I go to boot one up after 10, 20, even 30 years, they still > work 95% of the time. And 3 of the other 5% will work if you take your thumb and push down on each chip to reseat it. From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Dec 20 00:23:00 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: CompuPro RAM board settings In-Reply-To: "Richard A. Cini"'s message of "Thu, 19 Dec 2002 21:58:41 -0500" References: <MHEPLKLGOHCDPEMJMCFAGEEHCBAA.rcini@optonline.net> Message-ID: <200212200622.gBK6Mlln022070@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Richard Cini wrote: > I just got a CompuPro RAM20 memory board with no manual. I'm looking > for the DIP switch settings specifically, but a copy of the manual would be > very helpful. And here I was kicking myself for forgetting to take the CompuPro Product User Manuals volumes back out to storage where they would be buried in boxes all the way at the back. My forgetfulness is your good luck tonight. > It's missing two chips...a 74LS74 at U6 and a 25LS2521 at U10. The > memory array is 8 columns of 8 chips, type MM2147J. I'm thinking that these > are 2kx1 chips, resulting in a 16k board. No, it's a 32KB board. 8 rows of 4KB each. Your "missing" ICs are explained below too. Switch 1 enables 4K blocks, one position per row. SW1-1: row 0 ON enables row; SW1-2: row 1 OFF disables row ... SW1-8: row 7 Switch 2: Positions 1-4 set the base address of the board on a 4KB boundary. SW2-1 is the least significant bit, SW2-4 is the most significant, write your desired start address in binary and then a 1 means turn the switch on and 0 means turn it off. So OFF OFF OFF OFF means the board starts at 0x0000, ON OFF OFF OFF at 0x1000, .... Position 5: ON: RAM XX is a standard/global memory OFF: RAM XX is to be used as extended address or bank select memory Position 6: ON: enables response (deselect) to PHANTOM OFF: disables response to PHANTOM Positions 7 and 8 matter if the board is being used as a bank select memory. If you want the board to come up enabled when you turn on the computer, SW2-7 should be on and SW2-8 should be off. If you want the board to come up disabled, SW2-7 should be off and SW2-8 should be on. Never leave them both on or both off. Switch 3: If you are using the board as extended address memory, put the 25LS251 in position U11 and leave positions U6 and U10 blank. (This is why you're missing a couple ICs!) Then, Switch 3 sets bits A16 through A23 of the extended address. SW3-1: address bit A16 ON = 1, SW3-2: address bit A17 OFF = 0 ... SW3-8: address bit A23 If you are using the board as a bank select memory, put the 25LS251 in position U10 (leaving U11 blank) and put a 74LS74 into position U6. Then, Switch 3 sets the bank select port address. SW3-1: port address bit A0 ON = 1, SW3-2: port address bit A1 OFF = 0 ... SW3-8: port address bit A7 Switch 4: If you are using the board as a bank select board, Switch 4 sets the data bit(s) that will enable the board when written to the bank select port. SW4-1: data bit D0 ON = 1, SW4-2: data bit D1 OFF = 0 ... SW4-8: data bit D7 Note that if more than one switch is set, then the board will be enabled if *any* bit matches. -Frank McConnell From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 20 00:50:01 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Surge protectors or fire hazard In-Reply-To: <200212200039.QAA04831@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021219225053.02e4e110@pop-server.socal.rr.com> > I've just seen the third surge protector blow >up and this time, it almost started a real fire. > I wonder if any of the fire prevention groups are >looking into these time bombs? Are you buying units that are UL approved? When I blow up power strips so far all I get are sparks and a very small puff of smoke. From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Dec 20 00:53:00 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Apple disk controllers (was: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: "Fred Cisin's message of "Thu, 19 Dec 2002 20:57:06 -0800 (PST)" References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212192051420.14165-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> Message-ID: <200212200633.gBK6XJGd022221@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > seeing one that had some extra diagnostics and stuff. And, of course, > > > there was the Sorrento Valley Associates board that did MFM in Apple][ > > On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Ooh, juicy! Where can I get one of those? > > It's been a while since I've seen one. They were mostly pushed in the 80s > for being able to connect 8" drives! There was also a Vista 8" floppy controller for the Apple ][, built around the WDC 1793 I think. I have one of those in a Basis 108. -Frank McConnell From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Dec 20 05:26:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Surge protectors or fire hazard References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021219225053.02e4e110@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <003c01c2a81b$148885b0$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" <mikeford@socal.rr.com> To: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 1:54 AM Subject: Re: Surge protectors or fire hazard > > > I've just seen the third surge protector blow > >up and this time, it almost started a real fire. > > > > I wonder if any of the fire prevention groups are > >looking into these time bombs? > > > Are you buying units that are UL approved? I've heard, but never verified, that some units that appear to be Listed merely use a Listed cordset. > > When I blow up power strips so far all I get are sparks and a very small > puff of smoke. My folks had one that quit working. When I opened it up, the internal connections were made with 18ga wire! > Bob From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Dec 20 05:38:00 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212190746400.3186-100000@siconic.com> References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212191106120.18010-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> Message-ID: <3E031046.18745.BE7D6FF7@localhost> > One thing about Apple, they are expensive, but they're built very well. Well, maybe considered for US consumer (non Mil) companies you're right, But if you compare the Apple ][ wth a BASIS 108, which is literaly the German counterpart, then it's like compareing a Beetle to a Hummer. Gruss H. BTW: hummer.com is one of the best examples of plain arrogance: "To experience HUMMER.COM, we require that you use the latest Internet Explorer or Netscape web browser." -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From RCini at congressfinancial.com Fri Dec 20 08:07:17 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: CompuPro RAM board settings Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E51272A5@MAIL10> I pulled out my IC Master last night and indeed they are 4kx1 chips. So, the board is a 32k board. -----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith [mailto:eric@brouhaha.com] Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 10:20 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: CompuPro RAM board settings Rich Cini wrote: > I just got a CompuPro RAM20 memory board with no manual. [...] > The memory array is 8 columns of 8 chips, type MM2147J. I'm thinking > that these are 2kx1 chips, resulting in a 16k board. They're 4K chips. Someone somewhere may have sold 2K chips (probably as half-good 4K chips), but they sure weren't very common. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 20 09:10:02 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:44 2005 Subject: Surge protectors or fire hazard In-Reply-To: <200212200039.QAA04831@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021220100501.439f495a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> The MOVs used in these things fail by shorting. When they short, they put a short directly across the AC line. Building one of these things without fuses or circuit breakers in BOTH legs is just looking for trouble. You should report these incidents to your state and local fire marshall, as many consumer agencies as you can find and the store that sold them to you. You need a protective device (fuse or circuit breaker but fuse prefered) in BOTH AC legs since the power surge can be differeential (across the AC line) or common mode (where the voltage increasses in both AC lines). Don't put a protective device in the ground line! FWIW I pick up old power supplies and surge protectors and save the MOVs out of them. Then anytime that I work on a computer or other electrical device I add a MOV across the AC line and a MOV between each AC line and ground. I also add fuses in each AC line ahead of the MOVs. Even with these changes I still use surge protectors whenever possible, call it double insurance. I live in the lightning capital of the world (central Florida) and I've yet to lose a computer or TV to lighting despites numerous close hits. I've lost plenty of MOVs and surge protectors though. Joe At 04:39 PM 12/19/02 -0800, you wrote: >Hi > I've just seen the third surge protector blow >up and this time, it almost started a real fire. >I've had two of these go up in smoke that were >in metal strips. These generally make a lot of >smoke but I think the metal spreads the heat enough >that the fire danger is small. Now, most of the >newer ones are made from plastic. The last one >that just burned, started a small fire on the back >side of a chest of drawers. Luckily, the chest >didn't stay lit. It did charcoalize one of the feet. > While these things come with a 15 amp breaker, >the MOV's fail and draw something less then what >is required to blow the breaker. > I wonder if any of the fire prevention groups are >looking into these time bombs? >Dwight > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 20 09:10:55 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Question about TI calculator In-Reply-To: <3E026102.3010408@mich.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021220101704.439f8e24@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Dave, I had a NIB TI programmer and it could use regular 9V batteries or the rechargeable NiCad pack. I don't remember if you could use the AC adapter when the standard 9V battery was installed but I think you could. I'm not sure if it had a separate holder for the 9V battery but I don't think it did, I think you just pulled out the NiCad and put in the 9v battery. I've been meaning to E-mail you. I moved the MDS to Leesburg last week. I looked it over, it looks like it's in pretty good condition except that it's filthy. The internal drive is connected to the card in the back so it's set up as SSSD. The only card in the MDS is an 8085 CPU card and the only card in the expansion is an FM controller but I expect that you have plenty of cards for it. Joe At 07:14 PM 12/19/02 -0500, you wrote: >I became the grateful recipient of a TI Programmer today. A buddy at >work said "here, you like calculators, right? Better than throwing it >away." Well, I said "thanks!" > >Now, in looking about the internet for some info on the battery styles >for these things, I have a couple of questions that I cound't find the >answer to. > >This calculator has a battery pack called BP-8 which has 2 AA ni-cads >and a small circuit in it. It connects to the calculator internally >with a connector that would also mechanically mate to a 9 volt battery. > Now I would not expect a 9 volt battery to work where 2 AA's work, but >I'm not sure. In looking at Gene's web site he says the BP-8 is also >used on the TI-30 and I see TI-30's on ebay saying that they work with 9 >volt batteries. > >I will replace the two AA's with new ones. That should make the BP-8 >good again. > >I guess the is a roundabout way of asking for some background on the >power requirements of this calculator. Unfortunately my buddy had lost >the AC adapter (apparently it was an AC-9132, thanks Gene!). So I'll be >looking for one of those. 5.7v, 240ma, and that small 2-pin connector. > >Thanks for any help. >-- >Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com >Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team >NACD #2093 > > > From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Dec 20 11:32:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Acorn A3000 and A3010 (was: Re: Apple disk controllers) References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212192051420.14165-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> <200212200633.gBK6XJGd022221@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <004a01c2a84e$39c01400$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Frank McConnell wrote: > There was also a Vista 8" floppy controller for the Apple ][, built > around the WDC 1793 I think. I have one of those in a Basis 108. 1793? That was in the same family as the WD1770 and 1772, wasn't it? Speaking of which, has anyone got a WD1772 spare? I'd like to put a high-density (1.6MB) disc drive in my Acorn A3000, but the instructions I've got to upgrade it say that I've got to use a WD1772 with an 02-02 batch code. Basically, the addon circuit overclocks the 1772 when high-capacity is needed and patches the ADFS filing system module to allow use of 1.6MB discs. Alternatively, has anyone got a high-density drive upgrade kit or interface Podule for this dinosaur? I'm not interested in a "mini podule" (the type that fits internally) unless it's got an IDE interface on it, too. Finally, I need some RAM for my A3010 - anyone got some spare? A 2MB or 4MB upgrade would be perfect. These are basically small modules that fit under the keyboard. IIRC the original Acorn 4MB kit was just a pack of four RAM chips and an instruction sheet. Oh, and the A3000 is also begging for a 1MB to 4MB upgrade if anyone's got one (it's got 2MB fitted ATM) Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Dec 20 11:40:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Early Apple disk systems (was Re: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk) In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212191232070.3739-100000@siconic.com> References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212191557300.206-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212191232070.3739-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <32821.64.169.63.74.1040406175.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Sellam wrote: > One thing about Apple, they are expensive, but they're built very > well. And: > Well, when I go to boot one up after 10, 20, even 30 years, they still > work 95% of the time. Cool, I want one of those 30 year old Apple disk systems. Was that the Disk I (as opposed to the well-known Disk ][)? :-) From at258 at osfn.org Fri Dec 20 11:41:01 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: PDP11/44 update, dead wierd fan (35VAC, 75Hz) In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212191719400.897-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021220124331.17972C-100000@osfn.org> Rather like servicing wheel bearings, isn't it? On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > on the _proper_ way to solve this problem. From memory: all that you > > > need to do is disassemble this fan, and the other fans, soak the > > > bearings in mineral spirits to clean them, relubricate the > > > bearings/bearing race with white lithium grease and reassemble the > > > fans. Do this with all of the fans, working or not. > > > > > > Tony, if you're reading this, is my memory about what to use for that > > > procedure correct? ...somewhere I've still got my notes/e-mail from > > > > Yes, it should be fine. I used what's called 'white spirit' in the UK to > > clean the bearings (this is a paint thinner/brush cleaner type stuff, I > > have no idea what it's called elsewhere). I lubricated them with high > > melting point grease (Castrol LM), but any bearing grease would be fine. > > It's often called mineral spirits here in the states. It can be purchased > cheaply in large cans at any hardware/home center type store. > > One nice property when using it as a solvent cleaner, is that the "dirty" > thinner can be put in a glass or metal container, and the grease/dirt, etc > will settle to the bottom. > > -Toth > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Dec 20 12:09:02 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Apple disk controllers (was: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212192051420.14165-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212191232070.3739-100000@siconic.com> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212192051420.14165-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> Message-ID: <32841.64.169.63.74.1040407880.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > seeing one that had some extra diagnostics and stuff. And, of > course, there was the Sorrento Valley Associates board that did MFM > in Apple][ Sellam Ismail wrote: > Ooh, juicy! Where can I get one of those? Fred Cisin wrote: > It's been a while since I've seen one. They were mostly pushed in the > 80s for being able to connect 8" drives! As far as I know, they ONLY worked with 8-inch drives. The one I used only did FM (single density). It's perhaps possible that they might have later offered an MFM (double density) version, although such a controller would have been rather more complicated. On an 8-inch MFM disk, you only get a nominal 16 microseconds per byte transferred, and the reality is that you have to be prepared to handle a byte every 13 microseconds. An Apple ][ can't do that via programmed I/O, so you'd either have to have DMA, or do some tricks. The 8-inch MFM controller I designed for the TLB computer (another 1 MHz 6502 system) used "tricks". The basic idea was that the 6502 code would look like: clc loop: lda fdc_data ; 4 read a byte from the FDC sta buffer,x ; 4 store it to memory inx ; 2 advance pointer bcc loop ; 3 branch always Note that the loop takes exactly 13 cycles. You might ask, "But Eric, what if the FDC doesn't have data ready when the lda instruction is executed?" The FDC was wired to drive the 6502 RDY line (low?) if a read occurred when the data wasn't yet ready. And you might ask how the processor gets out of the loop. That's done by the completion interrupt. The completion interrupt checks the stacked PC, and if the interrupt happened during that loop, changes the stacked PC to the address of the code that cleans up. In order to support reading to a buffer anywhere in memory, the code modified the absolute address in the "sta buffer,x" instruction. Alternatively, an indirect indexed address mode like "sta (ptr),y" could have been used, but it would have taken one cycle longer, which wouldn't have met the required minimum loop time. Note that the buffer was not allowed to cross a page (256-byte) boundary, because that also would add a cycle to the sta instruction timing. The write code was similar: clc wrloop: lda buffer,x ; 4 read a byte from memory sta fdc_data ; 4 write to FDC inx ; 2 advance pointer bcc wrloop ; 3 branch always But this was even more tricky, because the NMOS 6502 doesn't allow the RDY line to stretch a write cycle. [*] For writing, instead of using RDY on the access to the fdc_data register, the card decoded the address of the opcode of the sta instruction of that loop, and drove RDY when that opcode was fetched if the FDC wasn't ready to accept another byte. This meant that the sta instruction had to be at a predetermined address, which was accomplished by putting it in an EPROM. The card had a flip-flop to enable the RDY logic, so that if the system wasn't trying to access the floppy but there was a stray read of the FDC data register [**], the system wouldn't hang. The cards for a TLB computer are fairly large. I didn't think I could cram all the logic onto a standard-sized Apple ][ card back in 1981, although there would have been a better chance with this scheme than with DMA. Eric [*] Contrary to popular belief, this was NOT a bug in the processor. It was done quite deliberately. Back in 1975 when the 6502 was designed, there were plenty of RAMs that could meet the 2 MHz 6502 timing for read and write cycles, but most ROMs (including PROMs and EPROMs) could not. Since you don't ever write to ROMs, they only needed to support stretching the read cycles. Years later, the 65C02 family added the ability to stretch write cycles. [**] The NMOS 6502 would generate a "dummy read" cycle if you used an indexed address mode and a page boundary was crossed. This was especially common on the Apple ][, where accessing the resources on a peripheral card was usually done by indexed addressing, with 16*slot in the index register. The dummy read occurs at an address 256 bytes lower than the desired address, because the carry hasn't yet propogated. This was fixed in the later CMOS parts. From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Dec 20 12:14:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: UL listing (was Re: Surge protectors or fire hazard) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021219225053.02e4e110@pop-server.socal.rr.com> References: <200212200039.QAA04831@clulw009.amd.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20021219225053.02e4e110@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <32847.64.169.63.74.1040408176.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Are you buying units that are UL approved? Minor nit: UL doesn't "approve" anything. Items that pass their tests are "listed". I assume this is because if they were to "approve" something they might incur legal liability. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Fri Dec 20 13:35:02 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Surge protectors or fire hazard Message-ID: <200212201937.LAA05313@clulw009.amd.com> >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >> I've just seen the third surge protector blow >>up and this time, it almost started a real fire. > > >> I wonder if any of the fire prevention groups are >>looking into these time bombs? > > >Are you buying units that are UL approved? Are you kidding, I don't think I've ever seen one without a UL sticker. > >When I blow up power strips so far all I get are sparks and a very small >puff of smoke. This is what the metal ones do ( at least the two I've seen go ). It was a plastic one that caused the troubles. When I've looked in the metal ones, I've never seen a separate fuse. I don't know what the plastic one had, it is a melted mess. Dwight > > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Dec 20 13:50:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Question about TI calculator In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021220101704.439f8e24@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212201149140.2023-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> > I had a NIB TI programmer There were TWO "TI Programmer" calculators! Please identify WHICH when talking about them. The first used LED display. It went through batteries almost as fast as you could put them in, and a charge lasted at most hours. But it worked GREAT when plugged in. The second used LCD display. The batteries last a LONG time! Unfortunately, the keyboard seems to not last as long as a charge of the batteries! From dtwright at uiuc.edu Fri Dec 20 13:52:00 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Surge protectors or fire hazard In-Reply-To: <200212201937.LAA05313@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200212201937.LAA05313@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20021220195426.GA4267639@uiuc.edu> I've never had a problem with surge bars. I mostly try to use high-quality ones, like Isobars; there're expensive, but worth it. I once plugged a cheap stereo into one that also had a Sun Ultra2 w/ some external disks and a monitor plugged in; the stereo shorted one outlet, which let out magic smoke and a bunch of sparks, and the Sun kept running along with no hiccups at all... I continued to use the bar, too, just avoiding the 2 outlets that were effected by the short (they looked kind of black and yucky afterwards). Heftly isolation filters between every pair of outlets and a heavy metal case work wonders :) Dwight K. Elvey said: > >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > >> I've just seen the third surge protector blow > >>up and this time, it almost started a real fire. > > > > > >> I wonder if any of the fire prevention groups are > >>looking into these time bombs? > > > > > >Are you buying units that are UL approved? > > Are you kidding, I don't think I've ever seen > one without a UL sticker. > > > > >When I blow up power strips so far all I get are sparks and a very small > >puff of smoke. > > This is what the metal ones do ( at least the two I've seen go ). > It was a plastic one that caused the troubles. When I've looked > in the metal ones, I've never seen a separate fuse. I don't > know what the plastic one had, it is a melted mess. > Dwight > > > > > > > > - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 20 13:55:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Apple disk controllers (was: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212192051420.14165-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212200356150.5979-100000@siconic.com> On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > seeing one that had some extra diagnostics and stuff. And, of course, > > > there was the Sorrento Valley Associates board that did MFM in Apple][ > > On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Ooh, juicy! Where can I get one of those? > > It's been a while since I've seen one. They were mostly pushed in the 80s > for being able to connect 8" drives! Oh wait, I believe I have one then. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 20 13:57:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <3E031046.18745.BE7D6FF7@localhost> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212200357560.5979-100000@siconic.com> On Fri, 20 Dec 2002, Hans Franke wrote: > > One thing about Apple, they are expensive, but they're built very well. > > Well, maybe considered for US consumer (non Mil) companies you're right, > But if you compare the Apple ][ wth a BASIS 108, which is literaly the > German counterpart, then it's like compareing a Beetle to a Hummer. > > Gruss > H. > > BTW: hummer.com is one of the best examples of plain arrogance: > "To experience HUMMER.COM, we require > that you use the latest Internet Explorer or > Netscape web browser." The Hummer itself is representative of everything that is wrong in America today. "The 6000 SUX, because bigger is better!" Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 20 13:58:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Early Apple disk systems (was Re: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk) In-Reply-To: <32821.64.169.63.74.1040406175.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212200400130.5979-100000@siconic.com> On Fri, 20 Dec 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > Sellam wrote: > > One thing about Apple, they are expensive, but they're built very > > well. > > And: > > Well, when I go to boot one up after 10, 20, even 30 years, they still > > work 95% of the time. > > Cool, I want one of those 30 year old Apple disk systems. Was that the > Disk I (as opposed to the well-known Disk ][)? :-) I was speaking in future tense, of course ;) (Has it been only two and a half decades?) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From msell at ontimesupport.com Fri Dec 20 14:08:00 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Surge protectors or fire hazard In-Reply-To: <20021220195426.GA4267639@uiuc.edu> References: <200212201937.LAA05313@clulw009.amd.com> <200212201937.LAA05313@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021220140544.02cd0c48@127.0.0.1> You should *never* buy a plastic multi-outlet strip that has surge protection built-in. There have been many documented cases of these starting fires when the surge-suppression MOVs burst into flames and then set the plastic casing of the strip on fire. I can't remember the TV program, but it was shown on TV where a strip was given the equivalent of a typical surge from a nearby lightning strike, and then the strip caught fire (quickly). Whatever you believe about this issue, you should play it safe and only use surge-protected outlet strips that have a metal casing. My house, contents, and my families lives (including our pets) are certainly worth the extra $10 or $20. Plastic outlet strips are part of a terrorist plot to destroy our lives..... : ) - Matt At 01:54 PM 12/20/2002 -0600, you wrote: >I've never had a problem with surge bars. I mostly try to use high-quality >ones, like Isobars; there're expensive, but worth it. I once plugged a cheap >stereo into one that also had a Sun Ultra2 w/ some external disks and a >monitor plugged in; the stereo shorted one outlet, which let out magic smoke >and a bunch of sparks, and the Sun kept running along with no hiccups at >all... I continued to use the bar, too, just avoiding the 2 outlets that were >effected by the short (they looked kind of black and yucky afterwards). >Heftly isolation filters between every pair of outlets and a heavy metal case >work wonders :) > >Dwight K. Elvey said: > > >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > > > >> I've just seen the third surge protector blow > > >>up and this time, it almost started a real fire. > > > > > > > > >> I wonder if any of the fire prevention groups are > > >>looking into these time bombs? > > > > > > > > >Are you buying units that are UL approved? > > > > Are you kidding, I don't think I've ever seen > > one without a UL sticker. > > > > > > > >When I blow up power strips so far all I get are sparks and a very small > > >puff of smoke. > > > > This is what the metal ones do ( at least the two I've seen go ). > > It was a plastic one that caused the troubles. When I've looked > > in the metal ones, I've never seen a separate fuse. I don't > > know what the plastic one had, it is a melted mess. > > Dwight > > > > > > > > > > > > > >- Dan Wright >(dtwright@uiuc.edu) >(http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) > >-] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- >``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, > For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' > Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021220/631779df/attachment.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Dec 20 14:35:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Apple disk controllers (was: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <32841.64.169.63.74.1040407880.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212201234440.2023-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> On Fri, 20 Dec 2002, Eric Smith wrote: [SVA] > As far as I know, they ONLY worked with 8-inch drives. The one I used > only did FM (single density). It's perhaps possible that they might have > later offered an MFM (double density) version, although such a controller > would have been rather more complicated. On an 8-inch MFM disk, you I stand corrected. SVA told me (at Comdex one year) about an MFM project, but I never saw a result. Could you cable it to a "1.2M" drive and run a "high density" (~250K) FM 5.25? (77 track, 250K data transfer rate, etc.) From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Dec 20 14:51:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Apple disk controllers (was: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212201234440.2023-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> References: <32841.64.169.63.74.1040407880.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212201234440.2023-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> Message-ID: <1996.4.20.168.244.1040417543.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Fred Cisin asks about the SVA 8-inch floppy controller for the Apple ][: > Could you cable it to a "1.2M" drive and run a "high density" (~250K) FM > 5.25? (77 track, 250K data transfer rate, etc.)\ I don't see any reason why that shouldn't work. From pcw at mesanet.com Fri Dec 20 14:58:00 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Question about TI calculator In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212201149140.2023-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212201250010.7256-100000@freeby.mesanet.com> On Fri, 20 Dec 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > I had a NIB TI programmer > > There were TWO "TI Programmer" calculators! > Please identify WHICH when talking about them. > > The first used LED display. It went through batteries almost as fast as > you could put them in, and a charge lasted at most hours. But it worked > GREAT when plugged in. I think that's a little pessimistic... I have one of those on my desk, the 9V battery in it is least 6 months old and still good, I dont use it all that often but a couple of times a week. The fact that the calculator goes asleep (display goes into standby in ~30 seconds, calculator powers down in several minutes) helps > > The second used LCD display. The batteries last a LONG > time! Unfortunately, the keyboard seems to not last as long as a charge > of the batteries! > > > > Peter Wallace From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 20 15:26:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Surge protectors or fire hazard In-Reply-To: <003c01c2a81b$148885b0$7d00a8c0@george> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021219225053.02e4e110@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021220132856.031554c0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >My folks had one that quit working. When I opened it up, the internal >connections were made with 18ga wire! Ah, internally fused too. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 20 15:29:01 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <3E031046.18745.BE7D6FF7@localhost> References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212190746400.3186-100000@siconic.com> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212191106120.18010-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021220133047.00a00910@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 12:42 PM 12/20/02 +0100, you wrote: > > One thing about Apple, they are expensive, but they're built very well. > >Well, maybe considered for US consumer (non Mil) companies you're right, >But if you compare the Apple ][ wth a BASIS 108, which is literaly the >German counterpart, then it's like compareing a Beetle to a Hummer. Which one is the Hummer, and is that good or bad? If the Apple II was any more robust they would start linking together and take over the world. From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Fri Dec 20 15:31:00 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Brag: Scope probes References: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212150343280.751-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> Message-ID: <3E038CB9.3040808@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hehe, you must have very special probe connectors. Here's what I did as the cheapie that I am: I took an old Ethernet BNC cable, cut it in half and behold I had two scope probes :-). As an added value that I still haven't gotten around doing, I will add some cable-shoes at the end. Works for my purposes. -Gunther Tothwolf wrote: > I *finally* managed to get probes for my Tektronix 2213 scopes late this > last week. I still can't quite decide which project to tackle first ;P > > Unfortunately, most of the P6120 probes are missing the slip-on clip and > ground leads, so I appear to have some more searching ahead of me. Only > one probe has a ground lead, which has obviously been damaged and repaired > by a previous owner. I suspect and hope that the ground leads and clips > will be easier to find than the rest of the probe. Does anyone know > offhand of a source for these parts? I don't expect Tektronix to have the > parts still available, since they told me that they sold off all parts and > spares for the 2213 series to GTE. The last time I talked to someone at > GTE about 2213 parts, they were less than helpful, and suggested I either > send them the scope for repairs (it just needs the plastic front panel) or > go buy a new scope. > > -Toth > From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Dec 20 15:38:01 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021220133047.00a00910@pop-server.socal.rr.com> References: <3E031046.18745.BE7D6FF7@localhost> Message-ID: <3E039CF2.12575.C0A2F1DA@localhost> > > > One thing about Apple, they are expensive, but they're built very well. > >Well, maybe considered for US consumer (non Mil) companies you're right, > >But if you compare the Apple ][ wth a BASIS 108, which is literaly the > >German counterpart, then it's like compareing a Beetle to a Hummer. > Which one is the Hummer, and is that good or bad? > If the Apple II was any more robust they would start linking together and > take over the world. Well, the Basis 108 had a full metall housing wit a _solid_ base plate of at least 10 pounds ... it was durable enough to build a cathedral atop :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From pcw at mesanet.com Fri Dec 20 15:56:01 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Brag: Scope probes In-Reply-To: <3E038CB9.3040808@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212201344540.7256-100000@freeby.mesanet.com> On Fri, 20 Dec 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Hehe, you must have very special probe connectors. Here's what I > did as the cheapie that I am: I took an old Ethernet BNC cable, > cut it in half and behold I had two scope probes :-). As an added > value that I still haven't gotten around doing, I will add some > cable-shoes at the end. Works for my purposes. > > -Gunther Add a 453 Ohm non-inductive series resistor on the end of the cable (and a 50 Ohm terminator on the scope end if you do not have 50 Ohm inputs) and you will have a 10/1 probe with 500 Ohm input impedance and at least a couple hundred MHz bandwidth... If the 500 Ohm impedance bothers you just remember that a standard 20 pF input impedance scope probe has about the same capacitive reactance at 16 MHz... > > Tothwolf wrote: > > > I *finally* managed to get probes for my Tektronix 2213 scopes late this > > last week. I still can't quite decide which project to tackle first ;P > > > > Unfortunately, most of the P6120 probes are missing the slip-on clip and > > ground leads, so I appear to have some more searching ahead of me. Only > > one probe has a ground lead, which has obviously been damaged and repaired > > by a previous owner. I suspect and hope that the ground leads and clips > > will be easier to find than the rest of the probe. Does anyone know > > offhand of a source for these parts? I don't expect Tektronix to have the > > parts still available, since they told me that they sold off all parts and > > spares for the 2213 series to GTE. The last time I talked to someone at > > GTE about 2213 parts, they were less than helpful, and suggested I either > > send them the scope for repairs (it just needs the plastic front panel) or > > go buy a new scope. > > > > -Toth > > > > > Peter Wallace From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Fri Dec 20 15:58:00 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 anyone with some working experience out there? Message-ID: <3E0392F7.7070107@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hiho, folks, I have been gone from the list for several months now. Seems like eternity. All my nice machines are very depressed because they get no attention. The VAX 11/780 is shivering in the garage, cold wants to run to warm itself up, but I have not enough time to let it. I am missing some critical pieces of information, to get it booted and install BSD on the RA90 disk that I have installed via UDA50. How do I make myself a boot configuration file that starts the system from a newly installed UDA50? Of the boot configs that I have on the RX01 disk none seems to fit. And I don't know how to show the contents of these files on the terminal such that I could learn what those boot commands files do an how to enter them manually. I have no idea where to put the Unibus address and start address and all that stuff. I'm not even sure I have set the UBA50's address switches correctly. I also have installed a second RX01 drive and I was wondering how I can tell the console to show me a @DIR of that other drive? Is there a way to switch between the default drive or to give a unit number to the typical commands (such as @DIR)? My primary goal is to make copies of some of the more critical RX01 disks that I have, since some of the disks already have errors on them I don't want to loose my last console boot disk. I have asked some of these questions before but got no response, seems like noone has an 11/780 running. I would really love to get into touch with some person here who has a VAX11/780 or knows it so well to can give directions from memory. Aren't there 11/780 people here on the list? thanks, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Dec 20 16:08:00 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 anyone with some working experience out there? In-Reply-To: <3E0392F7.7070107@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <3E03A3FE.30367.C0BE763A@localhost> > I have asked some of these questions before but got no response, seems > like noone has an 11/780 running. I would really love to get into > touch with some person here who has a VAX11/780 or knows it > so well to can give directions from memory. Aren't there 11/780 > people here on the list? Doesn't Chris(toph) Wunder still use his VAX to head his parents basement? Try mailto:chris@openecs.org Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Dec 20 17:43:02 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Acorn A3000 and A3010 (was: Re: Apple disk controllers) In-Reply-To: "Philip Pemberton" <philpem@dsl.pipex.com> "Acorn A3000 and A3010 (was: Re: Apple disk controllers)" (Dec 20, 17:35) References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212192051420.14165-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> <200212200633.gBK6XJGd022221@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <004a01c2a84e$39c01400$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <10212202345.ZM11433@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 20, 17:35, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Frank McConnell wrote: > > There was also a Vista 8" floppy controller for the Apple ][, built > > around the WDC 1793 I think. I have one of those in a Basis 108. > 1793? That was in the same family as the WD1770 and 1772, wasn't it? Same manufacturer but different family, and not interchangeable. > Speaking of which, has anyone got a WD1772 spare? I'd like to put a > high-density (1.6MB) disc drive in my Acorn A3000, but the instructions I've > got to upgrade it say that I've got to use a WD1772 with an 02-02 batch > code. Yes, they can run at a higher clock speed. About the only place you find them are in Atari 520s and 1024s. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ghldbrd at ccp.com Fri Dec 20 17:52:01 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Brag: Scope probes References: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212150343280.751-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> <3E038CB9.3040808@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <3E03BAB9.5C918245@ccp.com> Gunther Schadow wrote: > > Hehe, you must have very special probe connectors. Here's what I > did as the cheapie that I am: I took an old Ethernet BNC cable, > cut it in half and behold I had two scope probes :-). As an added > value that I still haven't gotten around doing, I will add some > cable-shoes at the end. Works for my purposes. > > -Gunther Well, for x1 that's okay, but real scope probes are x10, with compensation for higher frequencies. Best to use a properly designed probe with those neat little tips and nonsense. Makes life really nice. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 20 18:12:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212191232070.3739-100000@siconic.com> from "Sellam Ismail" at Dec 19, 2 12:32:51 pm Message-ID: <m18PWnc-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 480 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021220/3aab1a60/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 20 18:14:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Apple disk controllers (was: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <32841.64.169.63.74.1040407880.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Dec 20, 2 10:11:20 am Message-ID: <m18PWxh-000IzUC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 440 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021220/be9bf4d5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 20 18:14:30 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Brag: Scope probes In-Reply-To: <3E038CB9.3040808@aurora.regenstrief.org> from "Gunther Schadow" at Dec 20, 2 04:33:45 pm Message-ID: <m18PXC8-000IzmC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 693 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021220/202ef4a8/attachment.ksh From allain at panix.com Fri Dec 20 18:58:03 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212200357560.5979-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <003601c2a88c$2d9ac240$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > The Hummer itself is representative of everything > that is wrong in America today. > "The 6000 SUX, because bigger is better!" And what do we look like to outsiders when we run 440V Mainframes to do a P200's job? Hopefully the idea of running such things _full time_ is only a joke. John A. 1.4 Kilowatts, <50 hours a year. From allain at panix.com Fri Dec 20 19:03:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk Message-ID: <004201c2a88c$ed6b1160$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > The Hummer itself is representative of everything > that is wrong in America today. > "The 6000 SUX, because bigger is better!" And what do we look like to outsiders when we run 440V Mainframes to do a P200's job? Hopefully the idea of running such things _full time_ is only a joke. John A. 1.4 Kilowatts, <50 hours a year. I ripped the phonemodem cable out of the wall but couldn't stop that last send in time. sorry. From ian_primus at yahoo.com Fri Dec 20 21:27:01 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Thing to check before powering up DEC VT100 Message-ID: <6D8AF0EC-1494-11D7-AA40-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> I just acquired a new, unused DEC VT100 terminal. I have not plugged it in yet, because I am a little weary about firing up a piece of 20 year old hardware that has never been turned on before. Something tells me that there are probably some dried up capacitors lurking in there somewhere, just waiting to blow as soon as I flip the switch. Visual inspection really can't tell me anything here, there won't be any burn marks or blown caps in something that has spent it's entire life wrapped in plastic. What areas in particular should I check? Are there any parts that are prone to failure in these terminals? Thanks in advance! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com PS - On a similar note, does anyone know of someplace online that I can find a VT100 keyboard? I have one here, but it's in really terrible shape - very yellow with the name of a school written on it. It works, save for the "Return" key that normally takes two presses to register, but I would like to find something in a bit better shape and with all the keys present and accounted for. From rdd at rddavis.org Fri Dec 20 23:11:02 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Brag: Scope probes In-Reply-To: <3E038CB9.3040808@aurora.regenstrief.org> References: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212150343280.751-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> <3E038CB9.3040808@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <20021221053756.GA12969@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Tothwolf wrote: >Unfortunately, most of the P6120 probes are missing the slip-on clip and >ground leads, so I appear to have some more searching ahead of me. Only >one probe has a ground lead, which has obviously been damaged and repaired >by a previous owner. I suspect and hope that the ground leads and clips >will be easier to find than the rest of the probe. Does anyone know >offhand of a source for these parts? I don't expect Tektronix to have the Why not just connect a test lead with banana plug at the 'scope end, an an alligator clip on the other end, to the ground connector on the 'scope and use that? Works for me. I've always found the ground leads attached to probes of 'scopes to be too short and useless anyway... not really worth bothering with. Alternately, can't you just solder a wire, with an alligator clip on the other end, to the 'scope's probe? None of my 'scope probes have ground wires, other than the cable shielding, connected to them, and this has resulted in no problems during the past couple of decades. Is there something that I'm overlooking? -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Dec 21 00:30:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212200357560.5979-100000@siconic.com> <003601c2a88c$2d9ac240$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3E040A7D.3080308@jetnet.ab.ca> John Allain wrote: > And what do we look like to outsiders when we run > 440V Mainframes to do a P200's job? Hopefully > the idea of running such things +AF8-full time+AF8- is only > a joke. Running windows I have yet to see a PC run full time with out crashing. PC's with the latest GUI software still boot up the same speed as CP/M on a 4mhz z80. What I wonder does a classic computer with 1.2 uS core memory that ran for 20+ACs- years and a dumb terminal provide more useful work than one with 20 us memory access and a 2 year life span that crashes on a mouse click at the wrong time? Ben. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Dec 21 00:47:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212200357560.5979-100000@siconic.com> <003601c2a88c$2d9ac240$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <3E040A7D.3080308@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3E040E97.3000304@jetnet.ab.ca> ben franchuk wrote: > Running windows I have yet to see a PC run full time > with out crashing. PC's with the latest GUI software > still boot up the same speed as CP/M on a 4mhz z80. > What I wonder does a classic computer with 1.2 uS > core memory that ran for 20+ACs- years and a dumb terminal > provide more useful work than one with 20 us memory > access and a 2 year life span that crashes on a mouse click > at the wrong time? > Ben. > > Correction .02 us or 20 ns for the new machines? From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Sat Dec 21 05:15:00 2002 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Brag: Scope probes References: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212150343280.751-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> <3E038CB9.3040808@aurora.regenstrief.org> <20021221053756.GA12969@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <080001c2a8e2$a3db03b0$0101a8c0@athlon> ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" <rdd@rddavis.org> > Why not just connect a test lead with banana plug at the 'scope end, > an an alligator clip on the other end, to the ground connector on the > 'scope and use that? Works for me. I've always found the ground > leads attached to probes of 'scopes to be too short and useless > anyway... not really worth bothering with. Alternately, can't you > just solder a wire, with an alligator clip on the other end, to the > 'scope's probe? None of my 'scope probes have ground wires, other > than the cable shielding, connected to them, and this has resulted in > no problems during the past couple of decades. > > Is there something that I'm overlooking? Surely is-- It's called lead inductance, and when you look at waveforms containing frequencies above just a few MHz, using that long earth lead instead of the correct short probe one, what you see on the scope will be way off what things really look like! The difference will get worse at higher frequencies. Dave B Christchurch, NZ From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 21 10:09:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <003601c2a88c$2d9ac240$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212210010550.8804-100000@siconic.com> On Fri, 20 Dec 2002, John Allain wrote: > +AD4- The Hummer itself is representative of everything > +AD4- that is wrong in America today. > > +AD4- +ACI-The 6000 SUX, because bigger is better+ACEAIg- > > And what do we look like to outsiders when we run > 440V Mainframes to do a P200's job? Hopefully > the idea of running such things +AF8-full time+AF8- is only > a joke. > > John A. > 1.4 Kilowatts, +ADw-50 hours a year. Agh! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 21 10:11:44 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <004201c2a88c$ed6b1160$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212210011210.8804-100000@siconic.com> On Fri, 20 Dec 2002, John Allain wrote: > I ripped the phonemodem cable out of the wall but couldn't stop that > last send in time. sorry. Does your mailer just spontaneously revert back to its old settings from time to time or something? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From acme at ao.net Sat Dec 21 10:26:00 2002 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: ZMAIL goes live Message-ID: <200212211629.LAA10349@eola.ao.net> Hi -- After all the whining I've done on this list concerning virii attacking the Windows-based PC I've been using for email, I'm pleased to announce that it's no longer a problem. This message was composed and mailed using the email system I've been working on -- ZMAIL. The client-side hardware consists of a Zenith Z-100 with 1 20 MB hard drive and 192 KB RAM, plus a 56 K modem. I really don't know what the host machine is, except that it's running Debian Linux. The client-side software consists of an offline email reader/writer -- ZMAILER - -- which has many of the features you'd expect: address book, reply, forward, import file, etc. (no sort capability yet) Additionally, there are utility programs which concatenate the outgoing messages into a single file, break the incoming messages out from a single file, connect to the host, and transfer the data back and forth. On the host side, I wrote programs to grab new incoming mail and pass it to the client, as well as a utility to break out individual outgoing messages from a single file and post them via SMTP. This has been a great learning experience as I had to learn enough about CP/M-86, Linux, SMTP, and the 2661 UART to get this system working. It also (IMHO) is a great use of this classic old Z-100 -- actually two of them, one at home and one at my shop. Anyway, thanks to all of you who very kindly helped me during the course of this project. Especially, thanks to Joe Rigdon, who gave me the Z-100s, and also to Tony Duell, who very patiently helped me with the basics of programming the 2661. Classic computers rule! (even at 2400 baud ;>) Later -- Glen 0/0 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 21 13:18:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Brag: Scope probes In-Reply-To: <20021221053756.GA12969@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Dec 21, 2 00:37:56 am Message-ID: <m18Pp3j-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1122 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021221/c9231640/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Dec 21 13:45:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Question about TI calculator In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212201250010.7256-100000@freeby.mesanet.com> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212211142310.11720-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> > > The first used LED display. It went through batteries almost as fast as > > you could put them in, and a charge lasted at most hours. But it worked > > GREAT when plugged in. On Fri, 20 Dec 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > I think that's a little pessimistic... The rechargeable pack of mine would not hold a charge - a replacement might be in order. And with disposable batteries in it, I've had it go dead in a shorter time than one of my long work sessions. > I have one of those on my desk, the 9V battery in it is least 6 months old and > still good, I dont use it all that often but a couple of times a week. The > fact that the calculator goes asleep (display goes into standby in ~30 > seconds, calculator powers down in several minutes) helps HMMMM! My LED (early model) one did NOT go into standby. THAT difference between yours and mine would be enough to account for it. > > The second used LCD display. The batteries last a LONG > > time! Unfortunately, the keyboard seems to not last as long as a charge > > of the batteries! My LCD one does shutdown. But the flaky keyboard is not as nice as the LED one (when it's plugged in) From allain at panix.com Sat Dec 21 14:46:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212210011210.8804-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <004901c2a932$47f82960$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Does your mailer just spontaneously revert back to its old settings from time to time or something? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org +ACo- Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com +ACo- From landerr at infoblvd.net Sat Dec 21 19:08:00 2002 From: landerr at infoblvd.net (Ryan C. Lander) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: hp 9920 Message-ID: <003e01c2a940$4485b690$12782ad8@lander1> Was wondering if you still had the 9920 stuff ? Do you have a keyboard as I am in need of one.... Im in USA, and will pay all shipping. Thanks Ryan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021221/64ecd513/attachment.html From us21090 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 21 19:09:11 2002 From: us21090 at yahoo.com (Scott Austin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: My old computer gear-- Any interest? Message-ID: <20021221225759.53683.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> It was interesting to look through the archives. Sad, too. Too many of those computers are familiar!! Hey, I probably started way back with a Olivetti Underwood Programma 101 (http://www.silab.it/frox/p101). That was one of my first real experiences with a programmable computer (some would say calculator), way back in the early 70's. Somewhere after that I did some programming on a TRS-80, storing my programs on audio tape. And I wish I could use my HP-25 calculator (1976). I need to find replacement rechargeable batteries. It was amazing what one could program into that thing with only 49 steps locations! Fun stuff and RPN was interesting. Blah, blah, blah. PDP-11, DEC-System 10, Apple II in college... so on. Anyway, cleaning up through my things I've pretty much decided to break the ties and offer up a few pieces of equipment, if you know of any interested parties: ------------------------------------------------------------ SUN 3/160 CPU board (pn 501-1208) Its a 68020 @ 16.67MHz, 68881, Sun-3 MMU, 4MB, 2 MIPS, 9U VME format, B/W video, Ethernet, serial, parallel ports. This board weighs nearly 4 pounds! The site http://www.sunstuff.org/hardware/systems/sun3/sun3/3-160/ claims this is the first 68020-based Sun machine. ------------------------------------------------------------ >From the same 3/160 machine (which years ago I hauled off the 200 some pounds of chassis-- don't hate me!)... Clearpoint SNXRAM Memory Board (dated 1986) Populated with 8MB with sockets for another 4MB, if you have the necessary 144 MCM6256 (256K x 1bit) memory chips (with an extra parity bit for every eight, the numbers work out). ------------------------------------------------------------ Maxtor XT 43805 380MB SCSI Disk Full Height - Approx 6x8x3 5.5 pounds ------------------------------------------------------------ Micropolis 1325 ST506 85MB SCSI Disk Full Height - Approx 6x8x3 6 pounds Dated 1986 ------------------------------------------------------------ KIM-1 Microcomputer system (late 70s?) It's a 6502-based micro. According to http://www.6502.org/oldmicro/buildkim/kim.htm, "The KIM-1 is the first computer developed by Commodore, or better, MOS [Technologies]. MOS was an IC producing factory which Commodore took over to be sure of a constant supply of ICs.... The KIM-1 has 1152 bytes of RAM, 2048 bytes of ROM and 30 I/O-lines. Some of these lines are used to drive six 7-segment LED-displays and others are used to read the little hexadecimal keyboard." You would use audio tape for storage and use a teletype, etc. for My father built this unit up with more memory, nice power supply, etc. ------------------------------------------------------------ That's about it (I really don't consider old 386 PCs as interesting), though I do have a Casio FX-7000 graphing scientific calculator (1985). But I saw on ebay going for $6. Its not about the money, it just shows there isn't much interest in it. Thanks for your time. If you know of anyone interested in these things, let me know (I may keep the KIM-1). Scott Austin __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sat Dec 21 20:28:01 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:45 2005 Subject: My old computer gear-- Any interest? References: <20021221225759.53683.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E052396.57FD08FD@compsys.to> >Scott Austin wrote: > Micropolis 1325 ST506 85MB SCSI Disk > Full Height - Approx 6x8x3 6 pounds > Dated 1986 Jerome Fine replies: If you haven't used it lately (and even if you have) the heads in this drive tend to stick WITHOUT ANY WARNING. From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat Dec 21 20:29:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:46 2005 Subject: My old computer gear-- Any interest? In-Reply-To: <20021221225759.53683.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <010301c2a962$33c3e300$020010ac@k4jcw> I'm definitely interested in the KIM-1! --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Scott Austin > Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 17:58 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: My old computer gear-- Any interest? > > > > It was interesting to look through the archives. Sad, too. Too many > of those computers are familiar!! > > > Hey, I probably started way back with a Olivetti Underwood Programma > 101 (http://www.silab.it/frox/p101). That was one of my first real > experiences with a programmable computer (some would say calculator), > way back in the early 70's. > > > Somewhere after that I did some programming on a TRS-80, storing my > programs on audio tape. > > And I wish I could use my HP-25 calculator (1976). I need to find > replacement rechargeable batteries. It was amazing what one could > program into that thing with only 49 steps locations! Fun stuff and > RPN was interesting. > > Blah, blah, blah. PDP-11, DEC-System 10, Apple II in > college... so on. > > Anyway, cleaning up through my things I've pretty much > decided to break > the ties and offer up a few pieces of equipment, if you know of any > interested parties: > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > SUN 3/160 CPU board (pn 501-1208) > Its a 68020 @ 16.67MHz, 68881, Sun-3 MMU, 4MB, 2 MIPS, 9U VME > format, B/W video, Ethernet, serial, parallel ports. This > board weighs > nearly 4 pounds! > > The site http://www.sunstuff.org/hardware/systems/sun3/sun3/3-160/ > claims this is the first 68020-based Sun machine. > ------------------------------------------------------------ > >From the same 3/160 machine (which years ago I hauled off > the 200 some > pounds of chassis-- don't hate me!)... > > Clearpoint SNXRAM Memory Board (dated 1986) > Populated with 8MB with sockets for another 4MB, if you have > the necessary 144 MCM6256 (256K x 1bit) memory chips (with an extra > parity bit for every eight, the numbers work out). > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Maxtor XT 43805 380MB SCSI Disk > Full Height - Approx 6x8x3 5.5 pounds > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Micropolis 1325 ST506 85MB SCSI Disk > Full Height - Approx 6x8x3 6 pounds > Dated 1986 > ------------------------------------------------------------ > KIM-1 Microcomputer system (late 70s?) > It's a 6502-based micro. According to > http://www.6502.org/oldmicro/buildkim/kim.htm, "The KIM-1 is the first > computer developed by Commodore, or better, MOS > [Technologies]. MOS was > an IC producing factory which Commodore took over to be sure of a > constant supply of ICs.... The KIM-1 has 1152 bytes of RAM, 2048 bytes > of ROM and 30 I/O-lines. Some of these lines are used to drive six > 7-segment LED-displays and others are used to read the little > hexadecimal keyboard." You would use audio tape for storage > and use a > teletype, etc. for My father built this unit up with more > memory, nice > power supply, etc. > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > That's about it (I really don't consider old 386 PCs as interesting), > though I do have a Casio FX-7000 graphing scientific > calculator (1985). > But I saw on ebay going for $6. Its not about the money, it just > shows there isn't much interest in it. > > Thanks for your time. If you know of anyone interested in these > things, let me know (I may keep the KIM-1). > > > Scott Austin > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > From bob at jfcl.com Sat Dec 21 20:55:01 2002 From: bob at jfcl.com (Bob Armstrong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:46 2005 Subject: What is a PVK11-G/02 ???? Message-ID: <02122118485554@jfcl.com> While pawing thru the piles of scrap boards at the local junk emporium, I came across two identical boards marked "PVK11-G/02". They have the standard double high/double wide QBUS form factor and dark brown/black module handles. The only other identification I could find printed on the boards was "Made in Australia" - no manufacturer or module number. Each board contains a 6809 (!) chip, an Intel FDC chip, a CRTC chip, a row of DRAMs, a couple of EPROMS, and some other miscellaneous logic. Now, of course, the question is "What do I have"??? A quick web search for PVK11 turned up nothing. Thanks! Bob Armstrong P.S. If you can, please cc me directly with your reply - I read this list in digest form and I can't wait a whole day to find out!!! From ernestls at attbi.com Sat Dec 21 21:12:00 2002 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:46 2005 Subject: Rana 8086/2 card? In-Reply-To: <3E040E97.3000304@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <OHENIDDKMMADIAHOLNMCKELHCOAA.ernestls@attbi.com> Does anyone have any information on a Rana 8086/2 card? It seems to be an IBM/8086 emulator for the Apple II. E. From kerry.power at chcc.nsw.gov.au Sat Dec 21 21:45:43 2002 From: kerry.power at chcc.nsw.gov.au (Kerry Power) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:46 2005 Subject: Tek 213 Message-ID: <21CA23A54FA8D1118E7B00805FCC0B8D0229B130@MAIL> Thanks to all who have offered real American kindness to an Aussie who blundered into your mailing list. John L is helping me. Regards, Kerry. From allain at panix.com Sat Dec 21 22:33:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212210011210.8804-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <000201c2a973$68d1ac60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Does your mailer just spontaneously revert back to > its old settings from time to time or something? Too painful to detail. Suffice that It has been set for ISO and doesn't actually use the setting unless I override Every Send individually. It always selects UTF for replies No Matter what the orig. sender used. John A. From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Dec 21 23:09:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: Brag: Scope probes In-Reply-To: <3E038CB9.3040808@aurora.regenstrief.org> References: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212150343280.751-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> <3E038CB9.3040808@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212212251161.4045-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> On Fri, 20 Dec 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Tothwolf wrote: > > > I *finally* managed to get probes for my Tektronix 2213 scopes late > > this last week. I still can't quite decide which project to tackle > > first ;P > > Hehe, you must have very special probe connectors. Here's what I did as > the cheapie that I am: I took an old Ethernet BNC cable, cut it in half > and behold I had two scope probes :-). As an added value that I still > haven't gotten around doing, I will add some cable-shoes at the end. > Works for my purposes. The connectors are not special at all, as they are just plain old BNCs. What I did need were probes that would function correctly at 40-60MHz. Supposedly, the Tektronix 2213 scopes have an unusual input capacitance requirement (14 pF), and finding probes that match is a real pain. All of the 3rd party probe manufacturers that I contacted told me that did not have a probe that would work properly with the 2213. There are some very high bandwidth probes made by Tektronix that have an input capacitance of 14pF, but they are *very* expensive (>$100-150ea). I certainly couldn't justify $200-300 for a pair of probes for each of my 3 2213 scopes, especially since the scopes only cost me ~$150ea. Back when I bought the 2213 scopes, I actually had a chance to get a 4th, and now sometimes find myself wishing I had. I ended up buying 14 of the 6120 probes, and nearly got a couple more. Needless to say, I feel like I got the probes at a very good price. The P6120 probes proved to be very difficult to find. I still need to find the ground leads and slip-on clips, but just finding the probes appears to be a major accomplishment. For some purposes, I can use a ground lead with a clip and banana plug connected directly to the scopes, but for the majority of the plans I have for the scopes, ground leads for the probes will be important. Sadly, even though all 3 scopes checked out ok before I stored them, they all seem to have developed problems over the last year or so. One seemed to power up ok, but blew its fuse after it warmed up for about 10-15 minutes. Another won't display the 2nd trace in the most common modes. The 3rd doesn't seem to power up. I guess I've got more work ahead of me. Sigh. -Toth From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 21 23:42:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: Rana 8086/2 card? In-Reply-To: <OHENIDDKMMADIAHOLNMCKELHCOAA.ernestls@attbi.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212211344080.10503-100000@siconic.com> On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, Ernest wrote: > Does anyone have any information on a Rana 8086/2 card? It seems to be > an IBM/8086 emulator for the Apple II. That is indeed what it is. Did you get the dual (stacked) disk drive unit with it? Without it I believe the card is generally useless. You may also want to respond to my last message to you ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 21 23:43:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <000201c2a973$68d1ac60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212211345110.10503-100000@siconic.com> On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, John Allain wrote: > > Does your mailer just spontaneously revert back to > > its old settings from time to time or something? > > Too painful to detail. Suffice that It has been > set for ISO and doesn't actually use the setting > unless I override Every Send individually. > It always selects UTF for replies No Matter what > the orig. sender used. Time to switch e-mail clients. Maybe ZMAIL is in your future? :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From eric at rothfus.com Sun Dec 22 09:59:00 2002 From: eric at rothfus.com (Eric J. Rothfus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Semi-Virtual Disk Drive Message-ID: <1040389015@rothfus.com> Many months ago, due to my frustration trying to find real floppies to run on my TRS-80's, I began to build a virtual floppy drive for it. The idea is that I can download software from the Internet (like Ira's great site) and run it on my TRS-80 without having to make a floppy. This little box (the SVD) has an RS232 port on one side, and a TRS-80 floppy edge-card connector on the other. You download a DMK image to the SVD and the TRS-80 will boot off of it. You can use the standard TRS-80 DOS tools then to make a copy of the disk...or whatever. The box is in pretty good shape now, but still not fully functional. You can boot most OS's and even many copy-protected disks. You can't, though, write to the SVD from the TRS-80. I'm looking to make this box available for all TRS-80 nuts. I don't want to make any money off of it, but would like to use any profits (beyond cost of parts) to fund sites like Ira's or other vintage computer concerns. And the more people who will buy it, the cheaper the cost of parts. I'm guessing that I can get the cost of the box down to $50 for parts, so I'm thinking that a $75 price tag would work. Soooo, I'm looking for one or two beta testers to help me make sure that I've covered all of my bases, as well as to help move the SVD forward. I need help in testing, but also writing useful software for Linux and Windows to manage the download to the SVD. Also, I'm going to need help figuring out the copy-protection of some disks. Any volunteers out there? For more information, check out the beginnings of the SVD web-site: http://www.rothfus.com/SVD . Or just e-mail me eric@rothfus.com. Thanks! Eric Rothfus From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Dec 22 11:26:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: Brag: Scope probes In-Reply-To: <m18Pp3j-000IzIC@p850ug1> References: <20021221053756.GA12969@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Dec 21, 2 00:37:56 am <m18Pp3j-000IzIC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <32802.64.169.63.74.1040578141.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Tony wrote: > As I keep on telling people, the most complex components in a (digital) > circuit are the connecting wires.... Indeed. The hardest thing to convince some digital designers is that digital circuits AREN'T. Especially when they are trying to examine signals with fast edges on a 100 MHz scope, and think the edges look just fine. A 100 MHz scope is *usually* adequate for working with 74LS and 74HC logic, but with modern CMOS it usually isn't. We *try* to make digital circuits behave digitally, but a whole host of things conspire against us. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Dec 22 11:28:00 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 anyone with some working experience out there? In-Reply-To: <3E03A3FE.30367.C0BE763A@localhost> References: <3E0392F7.7070107@aurora.regenstrief.org> <3E03A3FE.30367.C0BE763A@localhost> Message-ID: <20021222164650.GA3351@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, Dec 20, 2002 at 11:13:02PM +0100, Hans Franke wrote: > Doesn't Chris(toph) Wunder still use his VAX to head his parents basement? I don't know for sure, but I think he is running the VAXen still 24/7. Unfortunately he has "only" VAX 6000 machines and a 11/750. The 11/750 is a bit diferent from the 11/780 (especially when it comes to the console frontend and booting procedure) so his 11/750 may not be that helpfull. But there is someone in Sweden (Jony Bilquist?) who is running a VAX 8650 24/7 as personal workstation. The 8650 is very similar to the 11/780. Maybe he can help with his experience. He is on the NetBSD port-vax list. -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From hofmanwb at worldonline.nl Sun Dec 22 11:49:00 2002 From: hofmanwb at worldonline.nl (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: hp 9920 References: <003e01c2a940$4485b690$12782ad8@lander1> Message-ID: <000201c2a9e3$02be6e20$ace3f1c3@cx> Sorry everything is scrapped after 8 months trying to get it a decent home. Wim ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan C. Lander To: cctech@classiccmp.org Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 11:28 PM Subject: hp 9920 Was wondering if you still had the 9920 stuff ? Do you have a keyboard as I am in need of one.... Im in USA, and will pay all shipping. Thanks Ryan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021222/3c3a8c01/attachment.html From cbajpai at attbi.com Sun Dec 22 13:10:00 2002 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Semi-Virtual Disk Drive In-Reply-To: <1040389015@rothfus.com> Message-ID: <000201c2a9ed$e477e080$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Neat device. I could beta-test on a TRS-80 Model I. Now if someone could build such a device for the Apple Lisa 2/10 and the lousy widget hard drives. -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Eric J. Rothfus Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 11:02 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: TRS-80 Semi-Virtual Disk Drive Many months ago, due to my frustration trying to find real floppies to run on my TRS-80's, I began to build a virtual floppy drive for it. The idea is that I can download software from the Internet (like Ira's great site) and run it on my TRS-80 without having to make a floppy. This little box (the SVD) has an RS232 port on one side, and a TRS-80 floppy edge-card connector on the other. You download a DMK image to the SVD and the TRS-80 will boot off of it. You can use the standard TRS-80 DOS tools then to make a copy of the disk...or whatever. The box is in pretty good shape now, but still not fully functional. You can boot most OS's and even many copy-protected disks. You can't, though, write to the SVD from the TRS-80. I'm looking to make this box available for all TRS-80 nuts. I don't want to make any money off of it, but would like to use any profits (beyond cost of parts) to fund sites like Ira's or other vintage computer concerns. And the more people who will buy it, the cheaper the cost of parts. I'm guessing that I can get the cost of the box down to $50 for parts, so I'm thinking that a $75 price tag would work. Soooo, I'm looking for one or two beta testers to help me make sure that I've covered all of my bases, as well as to help move the SVD forward. I need help in testing, but also writing useful software for Linux and Windows to manage the download to the SVD. Also, I'm going to need help figuring out the copy-protection of some disks. Any volunteers out there? For more information, check out the beginnings of the SVD web-site: http://www.rothfus.com/SVD . Or just e-mail me eric@rothfus.com. Thanks! Eric Rothfus From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 22 13:49:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: My old computer gear-- Any interest? In-Reply-To: <20021221225759.53683.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> from "Scott Austin" at Dec 21, 2 02:57:59 pm Message-ID: <m18QAmp-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 947 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021222/31cca99e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 22 13:49:35 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: Brag: Scope probes In-Reply-To: <32802.64.169.63.74.1040578141.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Dec 22, 2 09:29:01 am Message-ID: <m18QAqY-000IzSC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1268 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021222/548e40a9/attachment.ksh From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Dec 22 14:06:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: HP/UX 10.20 Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212221349050.31887-100000@george.home.org> Hi. I've been a little slow in beginning this project, and I apologize to y'all who have been waiting patiently. My year-end slam has finally quit, and I have time to play with toys. I do have Jay West's HP/UX v10.20 media in hand, and will be imaging and testing copies this week. I have 8xx and 7xx machines available for verification; anything else is your guess. I should be able to ship the first week of January. Jay sent me a list of requests for back-up or replacement media, and I'll be contacting each of you today or tomorrow off-list. If you had asked, and don't hear from me by Tuesday, please contact me off-list. Or, if you need a replacement set of 10.20 media and didn't ask before, let me know. This is NOT a warez offer, either on Jay's part or mine. If you ask for a backup set, I will assume that you have satisfied any licensing requirements. I'll be asking for the cost of media & shipping as well - about $2.50 US per CD and about $6 per DDS tape, depending on the current price of media. There are 8 CDs and 3 4mm DDS tapes. That's based on USPS Media Mail rates. International or priority may be a little extra. Please take all further correspondence off-list, so as to keep the S/N ratio up. Happy Holidays to everybody! Doc From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Dec 22 14:18:22 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: microcontroller geeking, a new list is born Message-ID: <D6E64CA0-15EA-11D7-BF20-000393970B96@neurotica.com> (I suppose "geeking" could be considered a word. ;)) Hi folks. For some time now, Philips has had a mailing list intended for discussion of their 8051-architecture products. It was very poorly run, and there were many complaints about slowness, duplicate postings, etc, but it was a popular list nonetheless. A few days ago, they announced that they'd be moving the list to a web-based forum, and everyone screamed. Fortuitously, many weeks prior, I had set up a mailing list called "microcontrollers" on my mail server, but hadn't told anyone about it. Well, you can see where this is going...As expected, Philips' web forum was dead on arrival, and there are about fifty people (and counting) on my microcontrollers list. Mine isn't intended to be 8051-specific, but many of the first subscribers were refugees from the Philips list cutover, so much of the traffic has been 8051-related so far. I hope for it to be a general (but highly technical) forum for discussion of topics related to embedded systems development. Anyway, since I know several of you (especially John Wren, whose name I see all over the net in 8051 code repositories!) are into embedded stuff, I thought I'd drop a note to the classiccmp community and let you know of the list, and invite you to subscribe. It's microcontrollers@neurotica.com, and you can subscribe by pointing a browser at http://mail.neurotica.com:8080/mailman/listinfo/microcontrollers. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols From chd_1 at nktelco.net Sun Dec 22 14:22:00 2002 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: My old computer gear-- Any interest? References: <m18QAmp-000IzIC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <3E061F84.9040003@nktelco.net> Tony Duell wrote: >Some of us here _love_ HP calculators, and still use them almost every >day... I don't think I _could_ use a non-RPN calculator now. > > I second that... I have an HP-35 on my desk at work that I use every day. I have never had a bit of trouble with it. The power module cable is a problem though. The wires in the cable seem to break at the molded connector on the calculator end. I have two calculators and three power modules. I can only get one of the power modules to work most of the the time. I will have to try rebuilding the battery packs. All of them I have are shot. >-tony > Long live RPN..... -chuck From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Dec 22 15:43:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: WTD: TMS2532, HN462532 or 2732 EPROMs Message-ID: <00c801c2aa03$b3be1d40$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Hi, Well, it looks like the deadbeat seller who was supposed to be selling me the HN462532 EPROMs has vanished. He's screwed over another 18 people besides me and has earned a reputation for ignoring emails. So, I now need to find another source for some HN462532 or TMS2532 (preferred) or 2732 (I'll need to do some bodging to use these, but still usable) EPROMs. I need at least two of the same type of device, preferably four (so I've got some spares). I've got a 10 Euro note/bill/whatever sitting on my desk that I'm willing to use as payment, or I'll pay in Pounds Sterling. Or Paypal. Your choice. It looks like my stupid mistake with the Ace put a -12V spike on one of the data lines and fried everything on the main MCU bus. That is, address decoder, secondary decoding, main RAM, CPU and ROMs. And just when I thought this year couldn't get any worse, my Sansui 210 tuner-amp decided to blow its right aux channel this morning. Although this is a bit OT, I was wondering if anyone here had a service manual for this model they could copy for me? Heck, at this point even a schematic would be useful... Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 22 16:32:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: My old computer gear-- Any interest? In-Reply-To: <3E061F84.9040003@nktelco.net> from "Charles H. Dickman" at Dec 22, 2 03:24:36 pm Message-ID: <m18QEcO-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 5674 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021222/7b102fc2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 22 16:38:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: WTD: TMS2532, HN462532 or 2732 EPROMs In-Reply-To: <00c801c2aa03$b3be1d40$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> from "Philip Pemberton" at Dec 22, 2 09:47:18 pm Message-ID: <m18QEhz-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2073 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021222/fc8f7a14/attachment.ksh From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 22 16:41:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: WTD: TMS2532, HN462532 or 2732 EPROMs In-Reply-To: <00c801c2aa03$b3be1d40$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20021222224311.22066.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Philip Pemberton <philpem@dsl.pipex.com> wrote: > Hi, > Well, it looks like the deadbeat seller who was supposed to be > selling me the HN462532 EPROMs has vanished... Ow! That sucks. > I now need to find another source for some HN462532 or TMS2532 (preferred) > or 2732... I have a quantity of used 2732s available, but you will probably be happier with 2532s (less work). They are available from BG Micro for $2 each... http://bgm.bgmicro.com/prodinfo.asp?sid=0693784722222222242105076&prodid=EPM2532&page=1&cri=2532&stype=3 -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From bqt at update.uu.se Sun Dec 22 16:44:00 2002 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 anyone with some working experience out there? In-Reply-To: <3E0392F7.7070107@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0212222321540.15545-101000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE> Gunther asks some stuff about booting an 11/780 from an UDA-50. Included is my startup file for the 8650 to boot from an UDA-50, on a recent version of NetBSD. And to answer a few questions... How do you "make" this file? Well, boot some system with access to the console and write the file onto the RX01, or use an RX01 on another system to put the file in there. Note that the 86x0 machines and .COM files, while the 11/78x have .CMD files unless my memory serves me wrong. The contents should be just about the same, though. See the comments, look at the booting of VMS to compare, and guess the rest. :-) As for a second RX01, I cannot help you. On the 86x0 you have a command to say that you really want to play with a second RL02 instead of the standard one, but it's not very easy to use, and not really ment for customers to play with. Then again, there isn't even a DIR command on the 86x0 console (nor a command file to do the same). As for copying the RX01. Install VMS on a drive, and play with that. You have a command file for making copies of the console media there. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bsdboo.com Type: application/x-msdos-program Size: 1666 bytes Desc: Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021222/3ab1cf55/bsdboo.bin From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 22 17:35:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: WTD: TMS2532, HN462532 or 2732 EPROMs In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: WTD: TMS2532, HN462532 or 2732 EPROMs" (Dec 22, 22:36) References: <m18QEhz-000IzIC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <10212222337.ZM12718@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 22, 22:36, Tony Duell wrote: > I would have to hunt for them, but I might have a couple of new Hitachi > 462532s in the OTP (plastic) package. I bought them to repair a digital > LCR meter, and then found that the one thing that had not been 'got at' > was the EPROMs (fortunately) so I never used them. > > I have no idea if they're good, and I don't think I can easily program > them (that was to be another project if I had to re-burn the firmware for > the meter), but if I can find them, are they any use to you? If Tony can provide OTPROMs, or you can get EPROMs from BG Micro, my S3 should be able to program them. I can check the Hitachi data sheets to make sure it uses the correct parameters for OTP devices, in case they're different from "normal" EPROMs. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From allain at panix.com Sun Dec 22 17:48:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: "M/C" was ...EPROMs References: <00c801c2aa03$b3be1d40$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <004d01c2aa14$c6dc7640$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Well, it looks like {another} deadbeat seller... Some people are taking the week off from eMail. Looks like me too. Until next week... ``Merry Christmas everybody.'' John A. my guess: Sunday,29-Dec: 315 spams waiting for me. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Dec 22 17:54:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: WTD: TMS2532, HN462532 or 2732 EPROMs References: <20021222224311.22066.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00d501c2aa16$0c0ee3a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Philip Pemberton <philpem@dsl.pipex.com> wrote: >> Hi, >> Well, it looks like the deadbeat seller who was supposed to be >> selling me the HN462532 EPROMs has vanished... > Ow! That sucks. Indeed it does... > I have a quantity of used 2732s available, but you will probably be > happier with 2532s (less work). They are available from BG Micro for > $2 each... > > http://bgm.bgmicro.com/prodinfo.asp?sid=0693784722222222242105076&prodid=EPM 2532&page=1&cri=2532&stype=3 Complete with a $15 shipping charge. Oh, *great*. This just keeps on getting better. BTW, does anyone know what the current consumption of a "raw" Jupiter Ace is? Mine's drawing about 700mA from the mains PSU. I've repaired a load of PCB tracks and pads with 30AWG wirewrap wire and I've succeeded in getting a constant display. It does alternate in some areas, but the chip select out pin on the LS138 (the one that goes to the video RAMs) is pulsing, so I guess that's normal. The machine demonstrates no reaction whatsoever to keyboard input. Grr... If this continues, I'm going to raid what little I've saved up for a new monitor and use it to fix this annoying machine. I shall not be beaten by a chunk of fiberglass, copper, silicon and plastic! I still need five case locking pins though. Anyone got a dead Ace (I'm thinking cooked tracks or cascade failure) that has a full complement of case pins. If all else fails I'll add a pack of 3mm nylon bolts to my Farnell order... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Dec 22 18:00:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: WTD: TMS2532, HN462532 or 2732 EPROMs References: <m18QEhz-000IzIC@p850ug1> <10212222337.ZM12718@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <00db01c2aa16$e158f0a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > If Tony can provide OTPROMs, or you can get EPROMs from BG Micro, my > S3 should be able to program them. You lucky devil! A Dataman S3 (aka "Softy 3")? I saw an S4 for ?165 at a hamfest. Had there been a bank machine within 10 miles I would have bought it. But there is some consolation. I'm getting an Elnec PrEPROM-02aLV EPROM programmer for Christmas, so all is not lost. I'll take a few known-good SGS 27512s out of my parts box and test the programmer with them, then test the Ace ROMs and check them against Paul Robson's ROM dump (the Paul Robson who wrote a Jupiter Ace emulator -- the emu was called Ace32 iirc). > I can check the Hitachi data > sheets to make sure it uses the correct parameters for OTP devices, > in case they're different from "normal" EPROMs. That would be great - have you got a copy of the TI TMS2532 datasheet, too? I need to know if the two chips are pin- and read-compatible. Programming algorithm compatibility is not required (the PrEPROM lists the TMS and HN46 devices on the support list). Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Dec 22 18:13:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: WTD: TMS2532, HN462532 or 2732 EPROMs References: <m18QEhz-000IzIC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <00e401c2aa18$a4062b80$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Tony Duell wrote: > Another trick that I've used is to use 2764s (easy to find). You can > fit them into the 24 pin socket, and just about all the pins match > up. Solder wires (or some other kludge) to connect pin 2 (A12), 1 > (Vpp), 28 (Vcc), 27 (PGM/), 36 (Not used, but now in pin 24 of the > socket, so that it's +5V) together after programming the 4K image > into the upper half of the chip. I take it you mean pin *26*, not 36... Looks like I might be able to do that. If I can get hold of some 2764s. Unfortunately nearly all the programmable memory devices in my junk^H^H^H^H quality used parts box are 27128s, 27256s or Intel/Catalyst 28F010s. Oh, and I've got a few 27512s if they're any good... > I would have to hunt for them, but I might have a couple of new > Hitachi 462532s in the OTP (plastic) package. [snip] > I have no idea if they're good, and I don't think I can easily program > them (that was to be another project if I had to re-burn the firmware > for the meter), but if I can find them, are they any use to you? If you can find them, they'll be very useful as they're (supposedly) pin compatible with the TMS2532. >> And just when I thought this year couldn't get any worse, my >> Sansui 210 tuner-amp decided to blow its right aux channel this >> morning. Although this > Do you mean it's just one input that's failed? It's the output stages > that normally give trouble. Yup. Right input, auxiliary channel. Totally stuffed. > You do, of course, have a ready-made reference circuit to compare > against > -- namely the left hand channel :-) Good point. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Dec 22 18:23:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: WTD: TMS2532, HN462532 or 2732 EPROMs References: <m18QEhz-000IzIC@p850ug1> <00e401c2aa18$a4062b80$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3E065763.5060902@jetnet.ab.ca> Philip Pemberton wrote: >>> And just when I thought this year couldn't get any worse, my >>>Sansui 210 tuner-amp decided to blow its right aux channel this >>>morning. Although this >> >>Do you mean it's just one input that's failed? It's the output stages >>that normally give trouble. > > Yup. Right input, auxiliary channel. Totally stuffed. > Time to get a TUBE amp, at least you can fix them. :) From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Dec 22 20:06:01 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: New software acquisitions Message-ID: <11e.1ba74aa4.2b37ca00@aol.com> Finding old computers at the second-hand stores is getting difficult now but I did goto one place and look through some software boxes they had. Lots of DOS based stuff and ... OS/2 ! I got: warp server IBM training book and VCR tape for 2.1 warp 4 with mic faxworks pro galactic civilizations still wrapped warp connect DB2 single user hyperaccess OS2 system sounds IBM attachpak for OS/2 I left behind warp red box but I'm glad I found it all. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From fernande at internet1.net Sun Dec 22 20:20:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: New software acquisitions References: <11e.1ba74aa4.2b37ca00@aol.com> Message-ID: <3E067359.4020309@internet1.net> SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > Finding old computers at the second-hand stores is getting difficult now Yes it is. My local source has been Goodwill, but the only whole computers I see anymore are 030 Macs. They must be tossing the PC's, and I've never seen anything really serious. I did find a newish Best Data 56sx modem today, However. It was in a 14.4 SupraModem box. Works great, and was only about $7. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Dec 22 21:22:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: New software acquisitions In-Reply-To: <11e.1ba74aa4.2b37ca00@aol.com> Message-ID: <v04020a00ba2c324fd229@[192.168.1.5]> >galactic civilizations still wrapped This game is probably the best reason to have an OS/2 system in this day and age. If you like "Master of Orion" the odds are you'll like it! Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From vcf at siconic.com Sun Dec 22 22:13:00 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: Need TRSDOS 1.3 OS boot disk Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212221213480.13475-100000@siconic.com> For the life of me, I cannot find a good TRSDOS system disk for my TRS-80 M3. Can someone make a copy and send it to me? If so, please respond to me directly at <sellam@vintage.org>. Thanks!! Happy Holidays! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Dec 22 22:18:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: HP/UX 10.20 In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212221349050.31887-100000@george.home.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212222322100.2970-100000@ibm-ps850.purdueriots.com> Hey, I'm not on the list, but I could probably use a copy to re-install on my C120 that I don't have the password to. Thanks Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu On Sun, 22 Dec 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > Hi. > I've been a little slow in beginning this project, and I apologize to > y'all who have been waiting patiently. > > My year-end slam has finally quit, and I have time to play with toys. > I do have Jay West's HP/UX v10.20 media in hand, and will be imaging and > testing copies this week. I have 8xx and 7xx machines available for > verification; anything else is your guess. > > I should be able to ship the first week of January. > > Jay sent me a list of requests for back-up or replacement media, and > I'll be contacting each of you today or tomorrow off-list. If you had > asked, and don't hear from me by Tuesday, please contact me off-list. > Or, if you need a replacement set of 10.20 media and didn't ask before, > let me know. > > This is NOT a warez offer, either on Jay's part or mine. If you ask > for a backup set, I will assume that you have satisfied any licensing > requirements. > > I'll be asking for the cost of media & shipping as well - about $2.50 > US per CD and about $6 per DDS tape, depending on the current price of > media. There are 8 CDs and 3 4mm DDS tapes. That's based on USPS Media > Mail rates. International or priority may be a little extra. > > Please take all further correspondence off-list, so as to keep the > S/N ratio up. > > Happy Holidays to everybody! > > Doc > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Dec 22 22:52:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: HP/UX 10.20 In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212222322100.2970-100000@ibm-ps850.purdueriots.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212222250550.2708-100000@george.home.org> On Sun, 22 Dec 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Hey, I'm not on the list, but I could probably use a copy to re-install on > my C120 that I don't have the password to. OK. Although getting in as root isn't all that hard... But on the other hand, Jay's media is supposed to be rather special. I'm testing the tapes tomorrow, will make master ISO's tomorrow night or Tuesday, and will test them. May be the first week of January before I actually have sets to ship. Do you want the whole set, and tapes? Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Dec 22 22:59:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: HP/UX 10.20 In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212222250550.2708-100000@george.home.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212222300360.2708-100000@george.home.org> Urk. That was supposed to be private. PLEASE take requests off-list. I'm too brain-dead to notice if you don't. :) Doc On Sun, 22 Dec 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Sun, 22 Dec 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > Hey, I'm not on the list, but I could probably use a copy to re-install on > > my C120 that I don't have the password to. > > OK. Although getting in as root isn't all that hard... > But on the other hand, Jay's media is supposed to be rather special. > > I'm testing the tapes tomorrow, will make master ISO's tomorrow night > or Tuesday, and will test them. May be the first week of January before > I actually have sets to ship. > > Do you want the whole set, and tapes? > > Doc > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 23 01:03:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: New software acquisitions In-Reply-To: <v04020a00ba2c324fd229@[192.168.1.5]> Message-ID: <20021223070609.42622.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@aracnet.com> wrote: > >galactic civilizations still wrapped > > This game is probably the best reason to have an OS/2 system in this day > and age. If you like "Master of Orion" the odds are you'll like it! I heard about it back in the heyday of OS/2. From what I read, it looked like a great game. Love to locate a copy for myself (I already have OS/2 Warp, but never installed it). Good find! -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Dec 23 03:33:00 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80B boot disk In-Reply-To: <004201c2a88c$ed6b1160$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3E06E7B3.25106.CD7EF103@localhost> > > The Hummer itself is representative of everything > > that is wrong in America today. > > "The 6000 SUX, because bigger is better!" > And what do we look like to outsiders when we run > 440V Mainframes to do a P200's job? Hopefully > the idea of running such things _full time_ is only > a joke. > John A. > 1.4 Kilowatts, <50 hours a year. It woukd be niche if nobody could thell this to John Z. or his crew (www.gfhr.de), 'cause having a Cray 24/7 online and a Cyber 960 every Saturday is quite a nice playground. We are talking 3kW + 10 kW... Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Dec 23 05:06:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: WTD: TMS2532, HN462532 or 2732 EPROMs References: <m18QEhz-000IzIC@p850ug1> <00e401c2aa18$a4062b80$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <3E065763.5060902@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <008101c2aa73$df946300$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> ben franchuk wrote: > Time to get a TUBE amp, at least you can fix them. :) You mean tube as in vacuum tube (thermionic valve)? I'd love a valve power amp but it would need at least one Phono input, three Aux inputs (PC, radio and CD player) and tape recorder in/out. All stereo. Catch is, the only valve amps I've ever seen like that: A) Look cool (but where are the Magic Eye VU meters?) B) Keep a room warm in Winter (not necessarily a bad thing) C) Cost a lot. We're talking ?300-?400 here... OTOH, I *could* buy a few 1T4s or similar and a pair of EM84s and build an amplifier myself. Now if only I could find a decent book on electronic design that gives more than a passing "These things are obsolete" mention to valves... I'd also like to know how people who say that can get away with it. Valves are still being made in the former USSR - Svetlana is one company name that springs to mind. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Mon Dec 23 06:32:23 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: What is a PVK11-G/02 ???? References: <02122118485554@jfcl.com> Message-ID: <3E070321.AA9ECDDB@Vishay.com> Bob, just a thought: the "P" makes "Plessey" pop up to my mind. They did make Qbus stuff, like memory boards and various peripheral controllers. A weird combination you have there, anyway: CPU, FDC, and CRTC on one board is more like a single board computer than like a mix of peripheral controllers. Andreas P.S.: Is your domain name what I think it is (DEC-10 machine instruction)? Bob Armstrong schrieb: > > While pawing thru the piles of scrap boards at the local junk emporium, > I came across two identical boards marked "PVK11-G/02". They have the > standard double high/double wide QBUS form factor and dark brown/black > module handles. The only other identification I could find printed on > the boards was "Made in Australia" - no manufacturer or module number. > > Each board contains a 6809 (!) chip, an Intel FDC chip, a CRTC chip, > a row of DRAMs, a couple of EPROMS, and some other miscellaneous logic. > > Now, of course, the question is "What do I have"??? A quick web search > for PVK11 turned up nothing. > > Thanks! > Bob Armstrong > > P.S. If you can, please cc me directly with your reply - I read this list > in digest form and I can't wait a whole day to find out!!! From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Dec 23 07:15:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: A very special "holiday" Message-ID: <200212231327.FAA25420@stockholm.ptloma.edu> In this day of special holidays, we must remember today's most important celebration ... the transistor, in 1947 (IIRC?). Merry Transistor Day, -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- All wiyht. Rho sritched mg kegcaps awound? --------------------------------- From okto8 at hotmail.com Mon Dec 23 08:31:01 2002 From: okto8 at hotmail.com (okto simaia) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: penpoint Message-ID: <F1632FemYVjfPHXfro200003737@hotmail.com> i saw an old post of yours on the classiccmp.org maillist, and im VERY interested in getting penpoint if you still have a copy. i have an NCR system 3125 with windows 3.1 for pen, and i cant stand it. any help you can provide at all would be greatly appreciated thank you very much, okto simaia _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_addphotos_3mf From ram_suganthi at hotmail.com Mon Dec 23 08:34:29 2002 From: ram_suganthi at hotmail.com (Ram & Suganthi M.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: Serial port joystick found Message-ID: <F127bOli0Z2uRFxN1Gw0000dc97@hotmail.com> Hi, I found a really cheap serial port joystick with drivers for Linux. Its the Gravis Stinger. It is basically for Laptop users, but is perfect for my project. Here is a link with a review: http://www.dansdata.com/stinger.htm Now I am one step closer to getting my stand-alone transputer workstation (and flight simulator).... Thanks for all the help, Ram _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_virusprotection_3mf From thilo.schmidt at unix-ag.uni-siegen.de Mon Dec 23 08:37:36 2002 From: thilo.schmidt at unix-ag.uni-siegen.de (Thilo Schmidt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: Free VAX in Germany Message-ID: <XFMail.20021222195104.thilo.schmidt@unix-ag.org> Hi, There is a VAXstation II/GPX in a BA23 floorstand available in the area of Regensburg/Germany. AFAIR the QBus contains CPU, GPX-Framebuffer, RAM (don't know how much), ethernet and MFM-controller. It should be in working condition and is free for pickup (no shipping!). For further information please contact t.bartzick_NOSPAM_@gmx.net (remove the "_NOSPAM_"). bye Thilo From tkwasnie at adelphia.net Mon Dec 23 08:40:47 2002 From: tkwasnie at adelphia.net (Tom Kwasniewski) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: Need help identifying a MOSTEK chip Message-ID: <000601c2aaa2$4f1c16e0$71b04144@DGBF3C01> I cannot find the 7429 in any TTL data books but I have a couple of dozen. They are 14 pin and I would like to know also so I could use them. Tom K. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021223/15cbec42/attachment.html From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Dec 23 08:43:51 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: New software acquisitions References: <11e.1ba74aa4.2b37ca00@aol.com> <3E067359.4020309@internet1.net> Message-ID: <004701c2aa8f$273a90b0$2651ef42@oemcomputer> Same problem here. I found out that some of the thrifts here are bulking selling ALL the computer stuff to dealers before they hit the floor. I have asked how do I get to purchase the older items but so far no luck. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" <fernande@internet1.net> To: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 8:22 PM Subject: Re: New software acquisitions > SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > > Finding old computers at the second-hand stores is getting difficult now > > Yes it is. My local source has been Goodwill, but the only whole > computers I see anymore are 030 Macs. They must be tossing the PC's, > and I've never seen anything really serious. I did find a newish Best > Data 56sx modem today, However. It was in a 14.4 SupraModem box. Works > great, and was only about $7. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > From jim at jkearney.com Mon Dec 23 09:46:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: Need help identifying a MOSTEK chip References: <000601c2aaa2$4f1c16e0$71b04144@DGBF3C01> Message-ID: <0ac001c2aa9a$b9121250$1001090a@xpace.net> >From: Tom Kwasniewski >I cannot find the 7429 in any TTL data books but I have a couple of dozen I believe that it's a BCD to 7 segment (LED) decoder with open collector outputs. Not sure of the pinout, though. From n4fs at monmouth.com Mon Dec 23 09:50:01 2002 From: n4fs at monmouth.com (Mike Feher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: 7429? References: <000601c2aaa2$4f1c16e0$71b04144@DGBF3C01> Message-ID: <005401c2aa9b$5cea31a0$086dbd18@n4fs> Tom - Who manufactured your 7429s? I am also having difficulty in finding any info on them. Right now I cannot locate my early "DATA" book on ICs, but that should have it. Everything else skips right over 7429. Knowing the manufacturer may help as I have a lot of the early TTL manufacturers manuals. Happy Holidays - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ, 07731 (732) 901-9193 ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Kwasniewski To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:42 AM Subject: Re: Need help identifying a MOSTEK chip I cannot find the 7429 in any TTL data books but I have a couple of dozen. They are 14 pin and I would like to know also so I could use them. Tom K. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021223/7c31af7a/attachment.html From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Mon Dec 23 10:12:24 2002 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: New software acquisitions In-Reply-To: <20021223070609.42622.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Dec 22, 2002 11:06:09 pm" Message-ID: <200212231614.IAA21259@jill.ssl.berkeley.edu> > > --- "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@aracnet.com> wrote: > > >galactic civilizations still wrapped > > > > This game is probably the best reason to have an OS/2 system in this day > > and age. If you like "Master of Orion" the odds are you'll like it! > > I heard about it back in the heyday of OS/2. From what I read, it looked > like a great game. > > Love to locate a copy for myself (I already have OS/2 Warp, but never > installed it). > > Good find! Last time I checked, a windows version of galciv is in beta test. http://www.galciv.com/ Eric From coredump at gifford.co.uk Mon Dec 23 11:43:00 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:47 2005 Subject: Need help identifying a MOSTEK chip References: <000601c2aaa2$4f1c16e0$71b04144@DGBF3C01> Message-ID: <3E074BA6.8080800@gifford.co.uk> Tom Kwasniewski wrote: > I cannot find the 7429 in any TTL data books but I have a couple of > dozen. Well, I've looked in my two Texas Instruments TTL data books (1979 and 1989 versions) and neither of them list the 7429. Are you sure it's a TTL 74-series part? Because "7429" is also a valid date code, indicating 1974, week 29. Is there any alphabetic prefix or suffix on the number, like SN7429? Are there any other numbers on the chips? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Dec 23 12:41:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: A very special "holiday" References: <200212231327.FAA25420@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3E0758CC.6090201@jetnet.ab.ca> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > In this day of special holidays, we must remember today's most important > celebration ... the transistor, in 1947 (IIRC?). > > Merry Transistor Day, > Long live the triode ... 96 years and still going strong in hi-end audio. But really with with out Intel developing the 1k x 1 dynamic memory and programable uv memory computers would have never taken off. Ben. From trestivo at concentric.net Mon Dec 23 12:54:49 2002 From: trestivo at concentric.net (Thom Restivo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: PDP11/44 update, dead wierd fan (35VAC, 75Hz) Message-ID: <LOBBLGPOLKHLIKMNDENPGEMLCPAA.trestivo@concentric.net> Glen S, if you have trouble reworking your fans let me know, I have some available. We're in Melbourne, Florida. See our partial list of available items at www.tarinc.com thom From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Dec 23 12:56:39 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: Atari PCH204 In-Reply-To: <200212231614.IAA21259@jill.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEAECDCGAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> Hi all, Xmas greetings from a slightly warmer and definitely more damp than last week UK :) Having moved my entire collection back to the house over the weekend (which is a clever thing to do with cracked/broken ribs I'm sure) I rediscovered my Atari PC-1 and its external drive - the PCH204. Google turns up nothing about this drive apart from an ebay auction back in 2000 and a polish newsgroup, so does anyone know anything about it and it's (presumably) SASI interface for the PC-1? All the bumf I can find on the PC-1 says there was no expandability, but I've got an expanded one :) Any help gratefully received. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From kelly at catcorner.org Mon Dec 23 13:22:00 2002 From: kelly at catcorner.org (Kelly Leavitt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: Tany Xenix resources Message-ID: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B7FC@308server.308dole.com> I'm trying to locate a copy of the instructions for connecting a Model 2000 keyboard to a Model 6000 computer. They were included in the swap region of one of the boot disks for Xenix 3.2.something. Does anyone have a copy of this file anywhere? I think it is called m6010.tar (or something similar). Any other Tandy Xenix resouces out there? Thanks, Kelly kb2syd From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Dec 23 13:34:01 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: 7429? In-Reply-To: <005401c2aa9b$5cea31a0$086dbd18@n4fs> Message-ID: <3E0773BF.47.401A85@localhost> > Who manufactured your 7429s? I am also having difficulty in finding any > info on them. Right now I cannot locate my early "DATA" book on ICs, but > that should have it. Everything else skips right over 7429. Knowing the > manufacturer may help as I have a lot of the early TTL manufacturers > manuals. I have to admit I don't remember a 7429 either. The only things around that is a FIFO series 7429-xx I think with up to 4k, and a bunch of drivers, named 7429xxx. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Dec 23 13:46:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: 7429? In-Reply-To: <3E0773BF.47.401A85@localhost> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021223144334.16624D-100000@osfn.org> > > Who manufactured your 7429s? I am also having difficulty in finding any > > info on them. Right now I cannot locate my early "DATA" book on ICs, but > > that should have it. Everything else skips right over 7429. Knowing the > > manufacturer may help as I have a lot of the early TTL manufacturers > > manuals. > > I have to admit I don't remember a 7429 either. The only things > around that is a FIFO series 7429-xx I think with up to 4k, and > a bunch of drivers, named 7429xxx. If it is any help to you, 74H29 is the same as an MC3129 (Old MTTL). I have never seen a 7429 in any flavor. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From kelly at catcorner.org Mon Dec 23 13:57:01 2002 From: kelly at catcorner.org (Kelly Leavitt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: Tandy Xenix resources - spelling fix Message-ID: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B7FD@308server.308dole.com> I'm trying to locate a copy of the instructions for connecting a Model 2000 keyboard to a Model 6000 computer. They were included in the swap region of one of the boot disks for Xenix 3.2.something. Does anyone have a copy of this file anywhere? I think it is called m6010.tar (or something similar). Any other Tandy Xenix resouces out there? Thanks, Kelly kb2syd From jim at jkearney.com Mon Dec 23 14:24:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: 7429? References: <3E0773BF.47.401A85@localhost> Message-ID: <0b1101c2aac1$98f22010$1001090a@xpace.net> > I have to admit I don't remember a 7429 either. The only things > around that is a FIFO series 7429-xx I think with up to 4k, and > a bunch of drivers, named 7429xxx. www.sphere.bc.ca has some for sale, and chipdir lists the part. Apparently it's used in some Tek equipment (Tek # 156-0281-00). From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Dec 23 14:40:00 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: Atari PCH204 In-Reply-To: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEAECDCGAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> References: <200212231614.IAA21259@jill.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <3E078360.7750.7D2829@localhost> > Having moved my entire collection back to the house over the weekend (which > is a clever thing to do with cracked/broken ribs I'm sure) I rediscovered my > Atari PC-1 and its external drive - the PCH204. Google turns up nothing > about this drive apart from an ebay auction back in 2000 and a polish > newsgroup, so does anyone know anything about it and it's (presumably) SASI > interface for the PC-1? All the bumf I can find on the PC-1 says there was > no expandability, but I've got an expanded one :) Well, the first thing to come in mind is a SH-204, the 20 MB hard disk for the Atari ST, connected 19 Pin interface. basicly a beat up SCSI. A somewhat wiered concept, because the drivecontrollers did rebuild a full figured SCSI interface again to controll the disks (well, except the said SH 204, which could only address SCSI unit 0). The Megadrive 44 could select the ID ... nice afterthought, the Megadrive 44 (and SH-205) case was exactly the one used to house the PC-1 :) Now, I might be wrong, but I remember the PC-1 to have a ACSI interface ... or at least atari was thinking about that. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From stanb at dial.pipex.com Mon Dec 23 15:07:01 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: WTD: TMS2532, HN462532 or 2732 EPROMs In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 23 Dec 2002 11:10:15 GMT." <008101c2aa73$df946300$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200212231856.SAA26226@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Philip Pemberton" <philpem@dsl.pipex.com> said: > ben franchuk wrote: > > Time to get a TUBE amp, at least you can fix them. :) > You mean tube as in vacuum tube (thermionic valve)? > I'd love a valve power amp but it would need at least one Phono input, three > Aux inputs (PC, radio and CD player) and tape recorder in/out. All stereo. > Catch is, the only valve amps I've ever seen like that: > A) Look cool (but where are the Magic Eye VU meters?) > B) Keep a room warm in Winter (not necessarily a bad thing) > C) Cost a lot. We're talking ?300-?400 here... > OTOH, I *could* buy a few 1T4s or similar and a pair of EM84s and build an > amplifier myself. Now if only I could find a decent book on electronic > design that gives more than a passing "These things are obsolete" mention to > valves... You'd be better off with EF86. ECC83 and EL84, EL34 6V6 etc, all of them still in production. Transformers however are more difficult. They can cost from 30 to hundreds of pounds! An old copy of "Mullard Circuits for Audio Amplifiers" shouldn't be too hard to find. Try Chevet Supllies for starters... http://www.chevetsupplies.co.uk/ -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From iamvirtual at hotmail.com Mon Dec 23 15:29:00 2002 From: iamvirtual at hotmail.com (Fred Flintstone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: VT50 Connection Message-ID: <F838ta3IaUvsXuHtxHy0000b118@hotmail.com> Greetings, Does anyone have information on which terminal is which for the DEC VT50 terminal? The 20mA connection is done via screw terminals on the underside of the VT50, but I do not have any information on which terminal is which. If anyone has a schematic of this beast, I would be very interested in a copy. Thanks _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 limited-time offer: Join now and get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_newmsn8ishere_3mf From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Dec 23 15:33:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: WTD: TMS2532, HN462532 or 2732 EPROMs In-Reply-To: "Philip Pemberton" <philpem@dsl.pipex.com> "Re: WTD: TMS2532, HN462532 or 2732 EPROMs" (Dec 23, 0:04) References: <m18QEhz-000IzIC@p850ug1> <10212222337.ZM12718@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <00db01c2aa16$e158f0a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <10212231445.ZM13160@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 23, 0:04, Philip Pemberton wrote: > You lucky devil! A Dataman S3 (aka "Softy 3")? I saw an S4 for ?165 at a > hamfest. Had there been a bank machine within 10 miles I would have bought > it. It would have been a good buy. With the right adaptor , it can also do several types of PALs, GALS, and other devices. Sadly, my S3 is rather more limited. OTOH, it cost less than ?165. > But there is some consolation. I'm getting an Elnec PrEPROM-02aLV EPROM > programmer for Christmas, so all is not lost. That will certainly do the job. > > I can check the Hitachi data > > sheets to make sure it uses the correct parameters for OTP devices, > > in case they're different from "normal" EPROMs. > That would be great - have you got a copy of the TI TMS2532 datasheet, too? The OTP package is identical to the ceramic/quartz package, so no problem there. The HN462532 is pin-compatible to the TMS2532 as well, so that's no problem either. Both use a single 50ms programing pulse with Vpp=25V. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 23 15:46:16 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: My old computer gear-- Any interest? In-Reply-To: <3E061F84.9040003@nktelco.net> Message-ID: <540C990E-16C0-11D7-BF20-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 03:24 PM, Charles H. Dickman wrote: >> Some of us here _love_ HP calculators, and still use them almost >> every day... I don't think I _could_ use a non-RPN calculator now. >> > I second that... I have an HP-35 on my desk at work that I use every > day. I have never had a bit of trouble with it. Another HP flag-waver here...HP-41CX at the electronics workbench and HP-28S near the workstation where I do my programming. They'll have to pry them from my cold dead fingers. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols From wpointon at earthlink.net Mon Dec 23 16:01:00 2002 From: wpointon at earthlink.net (bill pointon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: My old computer gear-- Any interest? In-Reply-To: <540C990E-16C0-11D7-BF20-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <80CC837E-16C2-11D7-BBAF-003065ED7126@earthlink.net> dave you have a 28s - i loved mine till it died - sent it to hp to fix and they sent me a 48 to replace it - it had the best keyboard instead of having to shift alpha modes all the time - billp On Monday, December 23, 2002, at 04:48 , Dave McGuire wrote: > On Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 03:24 PM, Charles H. Dickman wrote: >>> Some of us here _love_ HP calculators, and still use them almost >>> every day... I don't think I _could_ use a non-RPN calculator now. >>> >> I second that... I have an HP-35 on my desk at work that I use every >> day. I have never had a bit of trouble with it. > > Another HP flag-waver here...HP-41CX at the electronics workbench and > HP-28S near the workstation where I do my programming. They'll have to > pry them from my cold dead fingers. > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." > St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols > From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 23 16:04:16 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: A very special "holiday" In-Reply-To: <3E0758CC.6090201@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <C7E29FD5-16C2-11D7-BF20-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Monday, December 23, 2002, at 01:41 PM, ben franchuk wrote: >> In this day of special holidays, we must remember today's most >> important >> celebration ... the transistor, in 1947 (IIRC?). >> Merry Transistor Day, > > Long live the triode ... 96 years and still going strong > in hi-end audio. Woohoo! :-) > But really with with out Intel developing the 1k x 1 dynamic > memory and programable uv memory computers would have never taken off. Oh c'mon, Ben...they had taken off quite well by then, they were just...a bit larger. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Dec 23 16:26:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: My old computer gear-- Any interest? In-Reply-To: <3E061F84.9040003@nktelco.net> References: <m18QAmp-000IzIC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021223165416.119f7398@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:24 PM 12/22/02 -0500, Charles wrote: > > >The power module cable is a problem though. The wires in the cable seem >to break at the molded connector on the calculator end. I have two >calculators and three power modules. I can only get one of the power >modules to work most of the the time. I will have to try rebuilding the >battery packs. All of them I have are shot. Are you talking about HP-35 type claculators or HP-25s? I've never seen a cable problem on the chargers for the HP-25 but I've seen lots of problems with the HP-35 type chargers that use three wires. But they can be fixed. First you need to open the charger and figure out exactly which wire (or wires!) are broken. They will almost certainly be broken where the wires enter the molder plastic plug. You'll have to cut back the plug and slit open the wire insulation until you find the break. The break is usually easy to find because the wire will be very flexible at the break. Then I cut the insulation back about 1/8" past the broken ends and solder a short piece of very flexible wire to the ends. (I use a J hook to make they have a good connection that will resist the pull on the wires.) After I get them working, I wrap the joint with unwaxed dental floss (high strength nylon cord) and coat it liberally with the plastic potting compound that's used to coat plier handles. I zig zag the dental floss back and forth past the joint to try and give the joint some reinforcement. You can't go far on the molded plastic plug but you can wrap the cord over the bulges so that it has some place to attach. I've fixed DOZENS of chargers this way and my success rate is about 98%. Both the HP 35 type calculators (aka classic series) and the HP-25 type both use AA size NiCads and are fairly easy to rebuild. But you'll have to reuse the contacts on the 35 type packs and they need to be spot welded to the cell so you'll probably have to find someone that has a battery spot welder. Anyone that builds or rebuilds battery packs should have one. Batteries Plus is one company that comes to mind. They seem to be wide spread. Beware of some of these companies. Some of their prices are outragous. I went to an Interstate battery store a couple of weeks ago and they quoted me almost $100 to rebuild a five cell battery! I told them they were out of their minds. That job shouldn't cost more than $20. The battery wholesaler that I use to do business with charged about $2.50 each for AA size Sanyo NiCads and $.50 for each strap that they welded on. That would come to about $11.50 for a HP-35 type battery and that's using GOOD Japanese made Sanyo cells. Batteries. I INSIST on Japanese made Sanyo cells! I've tried a lot of other brands and found most of them are JUNK! I haven't found ANY good American made, Chinese made or Mexican made cells including the Mexican made Sanyos. I've heard that some of the other Japanese made cells are good but I haven't tried them. I've had EXTREMELY good luck with the Japanese made Sanyos. I've rebuild hundreds of battery packs with them and I think I've only had one cell fail. I've also got a set of four AA Sanyos that I bought in Thailand in 1973 and they're still working fine! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Dec 23 16:26:44 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: 7429? In-Reply-To: <005401c2aa9b$5cea31a0$086dbd18@n4fs> References: <000601c2aaa2$4f1c16e0$71b04144@DGBF3C01> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021223172530.0f670742@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> FWIW I checked the '76 TI TTL Databook, 1980 and 1984 IC Masters and it's not listed in any of them. Joe At 10:52 AM 12/23/02 -0500, you wrote: > >Tom - > >Who manufactured your 7429s? I am also having difficulty in finding any info on them. Right now I cannot locate my early "DATA" book on ICs, but that should have it. Everything else skips right over 7429. Knowing the manufacturer may help as I have a lot of the early TTL manufacturers manuals. Happy Holidays - Mike > > > > >Mike B. Feher, N4FS >89 Arnold Blvd. >Howell NJ, 07731 >(732) 901-9193 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tom Kwasniewski > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:42 AM > Subject: Re: Need help identifying a MOSTEK chip > > > I cannot find the 7429 in any TTL data books but I have a couple of dozen. They are 14 pin and I would like to know also so I could use them. > > Tom K. > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\7429.htm" > From mbg at TheWorld.com Mon Dec 23 16:28:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: My old computer gear-- Any interest? Message-ID: <200212232230.RAA90854115@shell.TheWorld.com> >dave you have a 28s - i loved mine till it died - sent it to hp to fix >and they sent me a 48 to replace it - it had the best keyboard instead >of having to shift alpha modes all the time - billp >On Monday, December 23, 2002, at 04:48 , Dave McGuire wrote: I loved my 42s until someone stole it... and the cost on ebay to replace it is prohibitive... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | | | | "this space | (s/ at /@/) | | unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Dec 23 16:57:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: WTD: TMS2532, HN462532 or 2732 EPROMs References: <m18QEhz-000IzIC@p850ug1> <10212222337.ZM12718@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <00db01c2aa16$e158f0a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <10212231445.ZM13160@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <002d01c2aad7$3eda9c40$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > It would have been a good buy. With the right adaptor , it can also > do several types of PALs, GALS, and other devices. Sadly, my S3 is > rather more limited. OTOH, it cost less than ?165. Aah, but now I'm prepared. I've started keeping slightly larger amounts of cash on me at hamfests and I usually take a very close look at all the stalls before buying anything. BTW, I've got a spare Altera MAX7000 EPM7128ELC84 CPLD if anyone wants it. GBP5 or best offer. It goes up on Ebay on Friday if not sold. >> But there is some consolation. I'm getting an Elnec PrEPROM-02aLV >> EPROM programmer for Christmas, so all is not lost. > That will certainly do the job. Hooray! The first good thing that's happened this year! > The OTP package is identical to the ceramic/quartz package, so no > problem there. Except for the "Foul up the programming, replace the chip" rule. > The HN462532 is pin-compatible to the TMS2532 as > well, so that's no problem either. Both use a single 50ms programing > pulse with Vpp=25V. That's even better. So not only are they pin compatible, but they're also read and program mode compatible? Sweeet... Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Mon Dec 23 19:03:01 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: Y2K/Y10K for V5.03 of RT-11 References: <200212191839.NAA76406593@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <3E07B2DA.D0C6EE32@compsys.to> >Megan wrote: > I'm interested in what you propose, but suspect that Y10K would > be overkill at this point. I'd like to see design discussion > opened up for that... but it may all be moot since it wouldn't > be compatible with V5.4, V5.5, V5.6, V5.7... Jerome Fine replies: Since this started in the public forum, I though I might as well continue in this manner. Although I responded privately to just Megan Gentry at first, I thought that others might also be interested in contributing. In addition, if Megan is too busy right now with her job change, then let's get on with the design details and requirements phase. I agree that Y10K would be overkill at this point. But while the work for Y2K is being done for V5.03, it would not take more than double the effort. I really do believe that if Y10K is to be done at all, it should be done NOW while the expertise is still around. First, I want to say that I any bug fixes and enhancements made to V5.03, let alone to later versions and especially to V5.07, must be compatible with every later version as well. Otherwise, in my opinion, there is no point in doing them. So while some of the enhancements might never become very popular (such as a Path Handler Device Driver) or a SUPER extended MSCP device driver that can manage 256 RT-11 partitions at once (still need to solve many technical problems with this one - definitely NOT a done deal), EVERYTHING that is done to any of the older versions of RT-11 such as V5.03 MUST also be possible with every one of the later versions. Also, I want to add that the changes would be made to V5.03 of RT-11 ONLY because it is presently widely available and licensed for use under the Supnik emulator although it would certainly seem to be a win/win situation to be able to make ALL of the bug fixes and enhancements for V5.07 which could then be used by ALL hobby users and Mentec could also freely use those enhancements and sell them to commercial users who might just wish to purchase V5.07 with the additional features - if some arrangement could be found to make the bug fixes (some of the bugs actually cause RT-11 to crash) and enhancements available to both hobby users and commercial users. But, based on my experience with commercial users back about 5 years ago, none of them are interested in paying JUST 25% of the $ US 1600 required for an upgrade to V5.07 of RT-11. I did the Y2K upgrade to 90% of V5.04G back in 1997 for one commercial customer, but no one else bit. This seems to mean that every commercial customer would rather pay the full price to Mentec rather than one-quarter of $ US 1600 to a small company or at least that is my personal experience. As a result, the Y2K/Y10K bug fixes for V5.03 would be licensed ONLY to hobby users and should, therefore, not conflict with Mentec. Note that while the (NOT Commented) source code is available for RMONFB.MAC along with the rest of the Resident Monitor, the changes made to DIR, PIP, IND, MACRO (YES!! MACRO was done also) were made as patches. I can't see any reason that the same changes for V5.04G can't be backward ported to V5.03 in respect of the Y2K portion and the additional Y10K code added at that time for both V5.03 and V5.04G of RT-11. > ... and it is the sort of change which would truly affect > everything in the system, requiring sources to rebuild the > fixes... since no-one but Mentec has rights to the sources, > the product of any such change would be strictly illegal, so > I am wondering how you are proposing to get around that. As for the Y2K bug fixes, that part does not affect anything much in the system at all - the parts that are not yet Y2K compliant can easily co-exist with the parts that are while the changes are slowly being made. As for needing sources, the final product is produced in MACRO-11 assembler, but it is then BINCOMed against an EMPTY source file that produces, after it is assembled and linked, a file with ALL "-1" (or some other fixed value) if that becomes needed - has not been needed thus far) everywhere the actual SAV file (including SAV files with overlays - yes I ended up needing lots of dummy source files to generate the correct overlay tables). If you have any problems understanding, I can dig up a set I did for LINK. After I run BINCOM with the SAV file containing ONLY the bug fixes against the SAV file that contains NOTHING, the SIPP file that is produced can be run against the original distributed SAV file that DEC (I presume that actually means YOU in this case) produced for V5.04G to get the final SAV file with both the original executable code and the new fixes. As a result, NO sources at all of any kind for the original SAV file (LINK.SAV as an example) are ever used. Of course, if the source files ever do become available, the source code WITH the bug fixes should be rather simple to incorporate. As for the Y10K part, my primary concern is that any code and SAV files (the Monitors would need to be first) that was capable of executing in a particular old date range (either 1973 to 1999 OR 1972 to 2099) would continue to be able to execute in the old date range and provide correct results within that date range. Finally, any directories that were produced with Y10K compatible monitors and utilities in a date range that could have been handled by an old monitor and SAV files could still be handled by that old monitor and SAV files. If a date such as 4035 CE was used, there would still be the normal stuff and a date between 1972 and 2099 would appear if only a Y2K compatible version of RT-11 was used instead. Plus the extra bit in the file header would disappear if the file header was changed or copied. On the other hand, if the date 2063 was set up with a Y10K compatible monitor, a Y2K compatible version of RT-11 (such as V5.07 or a fixed V5.04G) could still manage to CORRECTLY navigate. (see a,b,c,d,e,f,g) Note that by initially producing a Y2K/Y10K V5.03 of RT-11 for ONLY hobby users, Mentec should have no reason or justification to be concerned. As you suggested, there will be some compatibility issues and it would be MUCH easier if all hobby users had access to V5.07 of RT-11 just as all hobby users can use the latest version of VMS on both VAX and Alpha. I have been thinking about these goals and compatibility problems for about two years, but no one was really interested. So I just thought. The following aspects seem some of the ideas that could be used: (a) It seems BEST (it may not be necessary - your advice on this aspect and your concurrence) to use one bit in the SYSGEN word to signify Y10K compliance along with a number of other enhancements (b) Other words as required are padded to the fixed offsets so as to be compatible with V5.07 code (c) A single 16 bit word can be added to the fixed offsets in the Resident Monitor area that holds the additional bits for the top 16 bits of a 23 bit year value (d) Other words/bytes/bits are added to the fixed offsets as needed. (e) KMOVLY.MAC bug fixes are made to handle both Y2K and Y10K (f) It seems BEST (this case seems absolutely necessary - your advice and concurrence) to use one bit in the status word for files to signify a Y10K file entry. (g) For file headers on tape media, allowing for the century byte to be defined for years up to 2999 CE seems adequate at this point. Another few millennium should also be possible, but eight bits is a limitation. On the other hand, I very much doubt that the tape media can survive, let along that tape drives will be available. BUT tape media are not likely to survive or be used in one hundred years. Disk drives may also not survive, but some sort of compatibility is more likely to be built into emulators for disk drives as opposed to tape drives. (h) Lots of others, but this is a good start. A few people responded to my last post and I will discuss the details with them in respect of the Y10K bug fix. At some point during the coding, I will post a set of the changes which seem best suited to implement the Y10K features. Anyone else who is interested is invited to participate either in this forum or privately. In addition, any bugs which anyone is aware of in RT-11, especially ones which still remain in V5.07 of RT-11, would be helpful to know about. They could be corrected in V5.03 of RT-11 and gradually work their way up to V5.07 in the future. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 23 19:26:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: WTD: TMS2532, HN462532 or 2732 EPROMs In-Reply-To: <00e401c2aa18$a4062b80$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> from "Philip Pemberton" at Dec 23, 2 00:17:11 am Message-ID: <m18Qdnq-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2217 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021223/440d4509/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 23 19:34:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: WTD: TMS2532, HN462532 or 2732 EPROMs In-Reply-To: <008101c2aa73$df946300$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> from "Philip Pemberton" at Dec 23, 2 11:10:15 am Message-ID: <m18QdvQ-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1961 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021223/9f374476/attachment.ksh From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Mon Dec 23 21:08:00 2002 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: 7429? References: <000601c2aaa2$4f1c16e0$71b04144@DGBF3C01> <3.0.6.16.20021223172530.0f670742@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001101c2aaf9$f1e9b880$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> perhaps you have a 74290 or other 7429x chip- the last digit being obscured. Also with 14pins is the 74295 regards h 74290 4-bit asynchronous decade counter with /2 and /5 sections, set(9) and reset. +----------+ SET1 |1 +--+ 14| VCC |2 13| RST2 SET2 |3 74 12| RST1 Q2 |4 290 11| /CLK1 Q1 |5 10| /CLK0 |6 9| Q0 GND |7 8| Q3 +----------+ [This information is part of the GIICM] > FWIW > > I checked the '76 TI TTL Databook, 1980 and 1984 IC Masters and it's not listed in any of them. > > Joe > > At 10:52 AM 12/23/02 -0500, you wrote: > > > >Tom - > > > >Who manufactured your 7429s? I am also having difficulty in finding any info on them. Right now I cannot locate my early "DATA" book on ICs, but that should have it. Everything else skips right over 7429. Knowing the manufacturer may help as I have a lot of the early TTL manufacturers manuals. Happy Holidays - Mike > > > > > > > > > >Mike B. Feher, N4FS > >89 Arnold Blvd. > >Howell NJ, 07731 > >(732) 901-9193 > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Tom Kwasniewski > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:42 AM > > Subject: Re: Need help identifying a MOSTEK chip > > > > > > I cannot find the 7429 in any TTL data books but I have a couple of dozen. They are 14 pin and I would like to know also so I could use them. > > > > Tom K. > > > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\7429.htm" > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021223/0ff4b231/attachment.html From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Dec 23 22:12:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: penpoint References: <F1632FemYVjfPHXfro200003737@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3E07DFFF.4090600@tiac.net> Hello Simaia-san, Unfortunatley the version of PenPoint I have has a hardware-specific MIL (machine interface layer), so it only runs on the NEC VersaPad, and no other machines. I don't know where you could find PenPoint for the NCR. okto simaia wrote: > i saw an old post of yours on the classiccmp.org maillist, and im VERY > interested in getting penpoint if you still have a copy. i have an > NCR system 3125 with windows 3.1 for pen, and i cant stand it. > any help you can provide at all would be greatly appreciated > > thank you very much, > okto simaia > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 3 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= > http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_addphotos_3mf > > > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Dec 23 22:49:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: WTD: TMS2532, HN462532 or 2732 EPROMs References: <m18QdvQ-000IzIC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <3E07E77C.9020504@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: > You're not looking in the right place!. IIRC, the Radiotron Designers > Handbook has been reprinted (at least it was in-print as a reprint a few > years ago). Mullard's 'Circuits for Audio Amplifiers' is not hard to find > (either second hand or a reprint). There's an excellent GEC book called > something like 'An Aproach to Audio Amplifier Design' which _starts_ with > the Williamson and goes on to kW-power amplifiers (!). Remember hi-fi sound is not allways high power. The first watt is the most important. http://www.decware.com/zpower.htm One other option is cad software for tubes/valves. http://www.glass-ware.com/ Several good ideas can be found here. http://www.tubecad.com/ Back issues of "wireless world" may also be helpful, but I am not sure what they all themselves today. Ben. From barry.moyer at pason.com Tue Dec 24 00:33:00 2002 From: barry.moyer at pason.com (Barry Moyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: VT50 connection Message-ID: <4BA5831E03C7344CBB232AF088EB9D800F16C9@COLUMBUS.int.ca.pason.com> Greetings, I am trying to find the 20mA connection diagram for a VT50 terminal. The VT50 is very similar to the VT52, but has a terminal strip on the underside of the terminal where the 20mA connection is made. I do not know which terminal is which. If anyone has a schematic of the VT50, I would very much like a copy. Thanks. From alderney at telusplanet.net Tue Dec 24 00:33:44 2002 From: alderney at telusplanet.net (Don and Jose Woods) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: DEC LA36 units Message-ID: <20021223214604.CCBL1559.priv-edtnes61.telusplanet.net@alderney> I have 4 DEC LA36 units in various states of disrepair. One appears to be functioning, apart from the printhead itself, the others probably have usable components, but I have limited ability to test much beyond the various motor drives. If anyone needs parts I would be willing to dismantle and ship for the cost of the freight - which may be the biggest problem as I am located in Alberta, Canada. Don Woods From john at elsbree.org Tue Dec 24 00:34:08 2002 From: john at elsbree.org (John Elsbree) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: Free to a good home: DEC VT330 Message-ID: <000001c2aae4$7c760550$6b7ba8c0@elsbreelib> Free + shipping: DEC VT330 monochrome graphics terminal. Excellent condition, in working order. Includes LK201 keyboard, VSXXX mouse, and 3 "preliminary draft" manuals: - Installing and Using - Programmer Reference Manual, Vol I: Text Programming - Programmer Reference Manual, Vol II: Graphics Programming This was a "field test" unit from the days when I was a beta site for DEC. Please reply off-list. John john@elsbree.org From curt at atarimuseum.com Tue Dec 24 00:34:34 2002 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: Atari PCH204 References: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEAECDCGAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> Message-ID: <002401c2ab0a$73ebc890$0b01010a@cvendel> Hi Witchy, I've got a stack of the buggers in my storage room. Basically they were intended for use on the PC Series of computers. Interestingly enough, Atari had about 3 different versions of them, one with an Atari ASCI interface, others SASI and another straight MFM. Inside the PC-1's is an ISA compatible set of headers and you plugged an adaptec controller card in and it would have an external interface port, one had straight pinouts going to a ribbon cable into the PCH204 with an internal MFM controller. I don't think Atari really knew which way that had wanted to go at the time and while it was a very big and bold project, they canned the PC-1 just a few months after its launch realizing it was too little too late in releasing an XT-ish clone in 87 and they concentrated on their 286, 386 and 486sx clones. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Witchy" <witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> To: <cctech@classiccmp.org> Cc: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 12:53 PM Subject: Atari PCH204 > Hi all, > > Xmas greetings from a slightly warmer and definitely more damp than last > week UK :) > > Having moved my entire collection back to the house over the weekend (which > is a clever thing to do with cracked/broken ribs I'm sure) I rediscovered my > Atari PC-1 and its external drive - the PCH204. Google turns up nothing > about this drive apart from an ebay auction back in 2000 and a polish > newsgroup, so does anyone know anything about it and it's (presumably) SASI > interface for the PC-1? All the bumf I can find on the PC-1 says there was > no expandability, but I've got an expanded one :) > > Any help gratefully received. > > cheers > > -- > adrian/witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans > From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 24 00:53:17 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: My old computer gear-- Any interest? In-Reply-To: <80CC837E-16C2-11D7-BBAF-003065ED7126@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <BF2369E2-170C-11D7-BF20-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Monday, December 23, 2002, at 05:04 PM, bill pointon wrote: > dave you have a 28s - i loved mine till it died - sent it to hp to fix > and they sent me a 48 to replace it - it had the best keyboard instead > of having to shift alpha modes all the time - billp Yup, I use a 28S for programming stuff. Great calculator, all logical ops right there on softkeys. Drunk now, but will talk abotu it later. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Dec 24 02:52:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: WTD: TMS2532, HN462532 or 2732 EPROMs References: <m18QdvQ-000IzIC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <002701c2ab2a$67e17480$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Tony Duell wrote: >> I'd love a valve power amp but it would need at least one Phono >> input, th= ree >> Aux inputs (PC, radio and CD player) and tape recorder in/out. All >> stereo. > If you build your own, then you can have whatever combination of > inputs you want... Always useful. Need another input? Add another valve and some extra connectors :) >> Catch is, the only valve amps I've ever seen like that: >> A) Look cool (but where are the Magic Eye VU meters?) >> B) Keep a room warm in Winter (not necessarily a bad thing) >> C) Cost a lot. We're talking =A3300-=A3400 here... >> OTOH, I *could* buy a few 1T4s or similar and a pair of EM84s and >> build a= n > 1T4 = DF91. That's an RF/IF pentode. It could be used for audio > output, but at _very_ low power... Which explains why it was used in the RF section of R. A. Penfold's "Two-valve SW Radio" project (published in EPE October 2001). But not why it was used in the audio amp section... EPE also published a 6V to 90V step-up converter in the February 2002 issue. Whether it will work on 12V (well, 13.8V) or if I can get 200V out of it is another question entirely. Might be fun to build a portable valve amplifier with a built-in rechargeable SLA battery. > You'd be better off considering something like EL84, EL34, or even > better KT66 or KT88 valves (the real GEC ones if you can find them > [1]) for the output stage. EL84: B9A connector, Pentode. Should make a good audio preamp if not a power output stage. > [1] A camera shop (!) closed down locally last year. They had some > valves that were used in cine projectors which they sold off for > \pounds 1.00 each, all brand new, boxed. Most were Mullard > EF86/ECC83/EL84 types (I think a total of 8). But the other 2 were > GEC KT88s (!). Of course I handed them a tenner and took the lot... :) And I get to pay a fiver per valve plus ?1.60 for the sockets... >> amplifier myself. Now if only I could find a decent book on >> electronic design that gives more than a passing "These things are >> obsolete" mention= to >> valves... > You're not looking in the right place!. IIRC, the Radiotron Designers > Handbook has been reprinted (at least it was in-print as a reprint a > few years ago). Mullard's 'Circuits for Audio Amplifiers' is not hard > to find (either second hand or a reprint). There's an excellent GEC > book called something like 'An Aproach to Audio Amplifier Design' > which _starts_ with the Williamson and goes on to kW-power amplifiers > (!). Now I know what I'm going to spend what's left of my electronics budget on. > Second-hand bookshops are well worth looking at... Chevet (IIRC) and Chelmer Valve Co. had some of those books, IIRC. I think www.valves.uk.com have a few of them too. That's where I've been getting prices from. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Dec 24 05:41:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: DEC LA36 units In-Reply-To: <20021223214604.CCBL1559.priv-edtnes61.telusplanet.net@alderney> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0212240341050.26808-100000@haiku.jarai.net> On Mon, 23 Dec 2002, Don and Jose Woods wrote: > I have 4 DEC LA36 units in various states of disrepair. One appears to be > functioning, apart from the printhead itself, the others probably have > usable components, but I have limited ability to test much beyond the > various motor drives. If anyone needs parts I would be willing to dismantle > and ship for the cost of the freight - which may be the biggest problem as I > am located in Alberta, Canada. Don Woods The ADVENT and INTERCAL Don Woods? -brian. From sipke at wxs.nl Tue Dec 24 11:29:00 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: Digital SCSI Controller ??? Message-ID: <015101c2ab72$504c6300$030101ac@boll.casema.net> I was donated a very long (full PC-XT length) PCI card with: -An Intel I960 CPU. -A Symbios Login 53C720 -Chip -A LSI LIA9616 21-40677-02 DC74468 NNM9642 WE1557 -Chip -And Various SMD ram and Rom chips Boardnumbers I found: -5022943-01-H01-P02 (SMS2) -5422944-K Adapter Is there anybody out there who's got a clue ? Sipke de Wal -------------------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx -------------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 24 12:34:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: WTD: TMS2532, HN462532 or 2732 EPROMs In-Reply-To: <3E07E77C.9020504@jetnet.ab.ca> from "ben franchuk" at Dec 23, 2 09:50:04 pm Message-ID: <m18Qtr2-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 418 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021224/99c11932/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 24 12:43:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: WTD: TMS2532, HN462532 or 2732 EPROMs In-Reply-To: <002701c2ab2a$67e17480$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> from "Philip Pemberton" at Dec 24, 2 08:56:52 am Message-ID: <m18Qtzs-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2555 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021224/6d0c7cf5/attachment.ksh From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Dec 24 12:48:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: WTD: TMS2532, HN462532 or 2732 EPROMs In-Reply-To: <m18Qtr2-000IzIC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <01a801c2ab7d$5a727f30$020010ac@k4jcw> > Sure! I am sure I read somewhere (probably in a Mullard book) that '20W > is adequate for a small cathedral' :-) Depends on what you're driving. Into a pair of Dalquist DQ-10's, you'll be lucky to hear anything. Into a set of Klipsch K-horns, you'll blow your ears out. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 13:32 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: WTD: TMS2532, HN462532 or 2732 EPROMs > > > > Remember hi-fi sound is not allways high power. > > > Sure! I am sure I read somewhere (probably in a Mullard book) > that '20W > is adequate for a small cathedral' :-) > > The Williamson (15W) is a classic design, though, and any book which > covers it is surely worth reading. I am not suggesting that > anyone makes > a 1.1kW vavle amplifer (the output vavles and transformer > would be almost > impossible to get now!). > > -tony > From loedman1 at juno.com Tue Dec 24 13:32:00 2002 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: Happy Holidays to all Message-ID: <20021224.113052.-7741.2.loedman1@juno.com> May the New Year bring many new "Discoverys" and no "Magic Smoke" Rich From iamvirtual at hotmail.com Tue Dec 24 13:43:00 2002 From: iamvirtual at hotmail.com (Fred Flintstone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: DEC LA36 units Message-ID: <F159ZcS4A6QlCWie55V000027eb@hotmail.com> Don, I am currently looking for an older LA36 which has a 20mA connection (I need it to connect to my ancient PDP-11s). Do you know the model numbers for the LA36? Thanks. --Barry >From: alderney@telusplanet.net (Don and Jose Woods) >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: cctech@classiccmp.org >Subject: DEC LA36 units >Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 14:46:05 -0700 > >I have 4 DEC LA36 units in various states of disrepair. One appears to be >functioning, apart from the printhead itself, the others probably have >usable components, but I have limited ability to test much beyond the >various motor drives. If anyone needs parts I would be willing to >dismantle >and ship for the cost of the freight - which may be the biggest problem as >I >am located in Alberta, Canada. Don Woods _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_advancedjmf_3mf From iamvirtual at hotmail.com Tue Dec 24 13:45:01 2002 From: iamvirtual at hotmail.com (Fred Flintstone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: Free to a good home: DEC VT330 Message-ID: <F169dhRyPdVlUtCR3uW00014bb6@hotmail.com> John, Do you live in Canada? If so, I would be interested in the terminal. Thanks. --barry >From: "John Elsbree" <john@elsbree.org> >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> >Subject: Free to a good home: DEC VT330 >Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 16:36:23 -0800 > >Free + shipping: > >DEC VT330 monochrome graphics terminal. Excellent condition, in working >order. > >Includes LK201 keyboard, VSXXX mouse, and 3 "preliminary draft" manuals: >- Installing and Using >- Programmer Reference Manual, Vol I: Text Programming >- Programmer Reference Manual, Vol II: Graphics Programming > >This was a "field test" unit from the days when I was a beta site for >DEC. > >Please reply off-list. > >John >john@elsbree.org _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 limited-time offer: Join now and get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_newmsn8ishere_3mf From phillipmilks at juno.com Tue Dec 24 13:57:32 2002 From: phillipmilks at juno.com (phillipmilks@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: Need help identifying a MOSTEK chip Message-ID: <20021224.145648.-460239.2.phillipmilks@juno.com> I think that there is some confusion on this part. First : Mostek wasn't in the TTL business, perse Second: I'm pretty sure that the part referenced below was a 7449, a cousin of the 7448. Thirdly : 7429 is most probably a date code. From: Tom Kwasniewski >I cannot find the 7429 in any TTL data books but I have a couple of dozen I believe that it's a BCD to 7 segment (LED) decoder with open collector outputs. Not sure of the pinout, though. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021224/f2faaba3/attachment.html From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Tue Dec 24 15:36:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: Free to a good home: DEC VT330 References: <000001c2aae4$7c760550$6b7ba8c0@elsbreelib> Message-ID: <3E08D3A6.FAB76E97@compsys.to> >John Elsbree wrote: > Free + shipping: > DEC VT330 monochrome graphics terminal. Excellent condition, in working > order. > Includes LK201 keyboard, VSXXX mouse, and 3 "preliminary draft" manuals: > - Installing and Using > - Programmer Reference Manual, Vol I: Text Programming > - Programmer Reference Manual, Vol II: Graphics Programming > This was a "field test" unit from the days when I was a beta site for > DEC. > Please reply off-list. > John > john@elsbree.org Jerome Fine replies: Am I in time? Where are you located? I am in Toronto. M2R 3G3 Can you obtain an estimate of the shipping? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From acme at ao.net Tue Dec 24 17:14:01 2002 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: Digital SCSI Controller ??? Message-ID: <200212242316.SAA02037@eola.ao.net> Got an FCC ID number on that board (assuming it was for sale in the US)? Glen Goodwin 0/0 From: Sipke de Wal <sipke@wxs.nl> To: Glen Goodwin <acme@ao.net> Subject: Digital SCSI Controller ??? Date: 12/24/2002 12:36 AM > I was donated a very long (full PC-XT length) PCI card with: > -An Intel I960 CPU. > -A Symbios Login 53C720 -Chip > -A LSI LIA9616 21-40677-02 DC74468 NNM9642 WE1557 -Chip > -And Various SMD ram and Rom chips > > > Boardnumbers I found: > > -5022943-01-H01-P02 (SMS2) > -5422944-K Adapter > > Is there anybody out there who's got a clue ? > > Sipke de Wal > -------------------------------------------------------- > http://xgistor.ath.cx > -------------------------------------------------------- > From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Dec 24 17:35:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: Digital SCSI Controller ??? In-Reply-To: <015101c2ab72$504c6300$030101ac@boll.casema.net> References: <015101c2ab72$504c6300$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212241741540.732-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> On Tue, 24 Dec 2002, Sipke de Wal wrote: > I was donated a very long (full PC-XT length) PCI card with: > -An Intel I960 CPU. > -A Symbios Login 53C720 -Chip > -A LSI LIA9616 21-40677-02 DC74468 NNM9642 WE1557 -Chip > -And Various SMD ram and Rom chips > > > Boardnumbers I found: > > -5022943-01-H01-P02 (SMS2) > -5422944-K Adapter > > Is there anybody out there who's got a clue ? What kind of connectors does it have? If it's a DEC SCSI card with multiple connectors, it could be a RAID controller designed for systems such as the AS1000/AS2000 series. -Toth From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 24 17:48:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: Anyone have a Western Digital XT-IDE hard card or ROM image? Message-ID: <20021224235038.26960.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> I've been trying to extract the data off of a 20MB XT-IDE drive (WD-93024X) that was once part of a hard card. It has the software for my B&C Microsystems UP600 device programmer. Too many swaps and not enough sleep later, I have inserted the card in backwards (no bracket and it's an 8-bit card). It's now DOA. The Compaq Portable II I'm using complains of an I/O ROM error. So... I can check/replace any of the TTL on the card (74LS13, 74LS14, 74LS244, 74LS30, 73LS260), but the contents of the 2764 are possibly lost to me. Does anyone have a ROM image or an old XT-IDE hard card? The P/N on the ROM is 62-000352-031. The assy no. on the PCB is 60-000227-03, the P/N appears to be 61-000347-01. No smoke got out, but it sure is unhappy. Thanks for any assistance. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From donm at cts.com Tue Dec 24 17:56:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: DEC LA36 units In-Reply-To: <F159ZcS4A6QlCWie55V000027eb@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0212241557070.65661-100000@crash.cts.com> On Tue, 24 Dec 2002, Fred Flintstone wrote: > Don, > > I am currently looking for an older LA36 which has a 20mA connection (I need > it to connect to my ancient PDP-11s). Do you know the model numbers for the > LA36? > > Thanks. > > --Barry No Barry, sorry, but Dec printers are outside my area of knowledge. - don > > > > >From: alderney@telusplanet.net (Don and Jose Woods) > >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >To: cctech@classiccmp.org > >Subject: DEC LA36 units > >Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 14:46:05 -0700 > > > >I have 4 DEC LA36 units in various states of disrepair. One appears to be > >functioning, apart from the printhead itself, the others probably have > >usable components, but I have limited ability to test much beyond the > >various motor drives. If anyone needs parts I would be willing to > >dismantle > >and ship for the cost of the freight - which may be the biggest problem as > >I > >am located in Alberta, Canada. Don Woods > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 3 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= > http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_advancedjmf_3mf > > From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Dec 24 18:09:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:48 2005 Subject: Anyone have a Western Digital XT-IDE hard card or ROM image? In-Reply-To: <20021224235038.26960.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021224235038.26960.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212241815300.732-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> On Tue, 24 Dec 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I've been trying to extract the data off of a 20MB XT-IDE drive > (WD-93024X) that was once part of a hard card. It has the software for > my B&C Microsystems UP600 device programmer. Too many swaps and not > enough sleep later, I have inserted the card in backwards (no bracket > and it's an 8-bit card). It's now DOA. The Compaq Portable II I'm > using complains of an I/O ROM error. > > So... I can check/replace any of the TTL on the card (74LS13, 74LS14, > 74LS244, 74LS30, 73LS260), but the contents of the 2764 are possibly > lost to me. Does anyone have a ROM image or an old XT-IDE hard card? > > The P/N on the ROM is 62-000352-031. The assy no. on the PCB is > 60-000227-03, the P/N appears to be 61-000347-01. I may have a board out in storage. If someone else doesn't uncover one first, I'll search though the boxes of controllers later this week. -Toth From donm at cts.com Tue Dec 24 18:10:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: Anyone have a Western Digital XT-IDE hard card or ROM image? In-Reply-To: <20021224235038.26960.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0212241608410.67140-100000@crash.cts.com> On Tue, 24 Dec 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > I've been trying to extract the data off of a 20MB XT-IDE drive > (WD-93024X) that was once part of a hard card. It has the software > for my B&C Microsystems UP600 device programmer. Too many swaps > and not enough sleep later, I have inserted the card in backwards > (no bracket and it's an 8-bit card). It's now DOA. The Compaq > Portable II I'm using complains of an I/O ROM error. > > So... I can check/replace any of the TTL on the card (74LS13, 74LS14, > 74LS244, 74LS30, 73LS260), but the contents of the 2764 are possibly > lost to me. Does anyone have a ROM image or an old XT-IDE hard card? Ethan, I have an Acculogic XT-IDE which is purported to be interchangeable with the WD card that I can send you. The EPROM is soldered in place, so getting the image is not straight forward. - don > The P/N on the ROM is 62-000352-031. The assy no. on the PCB is > 60-000227-03, the P/N appears to be 61-000347-01. > > No smoke got out, but it sure is unhappy. > > Thanks for any assistance. > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > From rschaefe at gcfn.org Tue Dec 24 18:36:01 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: Anyone have a Western Digital XT-IDE hard card or ROM image? References: <20021224235038.26960.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001401c2abad$fd651fb0$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" <erd_6502@yahoo.com> To: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 6:50 PM Subject: Anyone have a Western Digital XT-IDE hard card or ROM image? > > I've been trying to extract the data off of a 20MB XT-IDE drive > (WD-93024X) that was once part of a hard card. It has the software > for my B&C Microsystems UP600 device programmer. Too many swaps > and not enough sleep later, I have inserted the card in backwards > (no bracket and it's an 8-bit card). It's now DOA. The Compaq > Portable II I'm using complains of an I/O ROM error. > Might not help any, but I've got a 16-bit 105MB Plus hardcard that you can look at if you want. > Thanks for any assistance. > > -ethan Bob From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 24 18:39:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: Anyone have a Western Digital XT-IDE hard card or ROM image? In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0212241608410.67140-100000@crash.cts.com> Message-ID: <20021225003916.58626.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Don Maslin <donm@cts.com> wrote: > > > On Tue, 24 Dec 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > > I've been trying to extract the data off of a 20MB XT-IDE drive > > (WD-93024X) that was once part of a hard card... I have inserted the > > card in backwards... > Ethan, I have an Acculogic XT-IDE which is purported to be > interchangeable with the WD card that I can send you. That'd be great! > The EPROM is soldered in place, so getting the image is not straight > forward. Well... at the moment, I'm unsoldering all the chips that got hit by odd voltages (about 1/2 the TTL for sure) so I can test them in my TTL tester. I expect that the EPROM got whacked as well, seeing as how -5V, +12V and -12V all end up on address lines when you insert an 8-bit card the wrong way. :-/ There should be a way to save a block of memory to disk (debug, perhaps?) from DOS, presuming you have a machine you can stick the card into. Still, the simplest solution is a board swap. I could probably burn an image with my C-64 and a my Prom Queen if I located the software to drive it. Alternatively, I have a serial-based programmer that ISTR has an interactive hex dump feature - you talk to it over a 2-way RS-232 link and can dump data to it, or send interactive commands. There's no "program" or "copy" button. It's a Bay Technical Associates 953B. Haven't used it in years. Think it only does 1Kbit to 8Kbit devices and no funny pinout stuff like thge 2532. Thanks to all who have offered help. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From barry.moyer at pason.com Tue Dec 24 21:48:20 2002 From: barry.moyer at pason.com (Barry Moyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: DEC LA36 Message-ID: <4BA5831E03C7344CBB232AF088EB9D800F16CA@COLUMBUS.int.ca.pason.com> Don, I am in Calgary and I have a newer LA36, but I am looking for another older LA36 with a 20mA loop connection. You can contact me at 'iamvirtual at hotmail dot com' (replace at with @, dot with .) Thanks Barry From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Dec 24 21:49:16 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: Atari PCH204 In-Reply-To: <002401c2ab0a$73ebc890$0b01010a@cvendel> Message-ID: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEGECNCGAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Curt Vendel > Sent: 24 December 2002 05:08 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Atari PCH204 > > > Hi Witchy, > > I've got a stack of the buggers in my storage room. > Basically they were > intended for use on the PC Series of computers. Interestingly enough, > Atari had about 3 different versions of them, one with an Atari ASCI > interface, others SASI and another straight MFM. Inside the > PC-1's is an > ISA compatible set of headers and you plugged an adaptec > controller card in > and it would have an external interface port, one had straight > pinouts going > to a ribbon cable into the PCH204 with an internal MFM controller. I > don't think Atari really knew which way that had wanted to go at the time > and while it was a very big and bold project, they canned the PC-1 just a > few months after its launch realizing it was too little too late in > releasing an XT-ish clone in 87 and they concentrated on their > 286, 386 and > 486sx clones. Thanks for that, Curt and Hans. I'm now going to have to delve thru the layers of shielding to see exactly what's what now; it's been a couple of years since I last had them in bits when the machine wouldn't boot because the drive had seized. Mine has the ribbon cable between the 2 boxes, but I remember thinking it looked like some sort of SCSI/SASI drive though, not MFM, or did some 3 1/2" MFM drives also have the berg style connector on? There's not a lot of info on the web about this machine and the PC2 and PC3 either - I would've thought the likes of atari-history.com would have access to all the details. Oh, and if you fancy parting with one of the drives I know someone in Belgium who's very interested :) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From p_reale at minotaurz.com Tue Dec 24 21:49:42 2002 From: p_reale at minotaurz.com (Paul Reale) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: looking for Xerox Alto Message-ID: <000801c2ab6e$1f804f10$cfde3342@golem> I am looking for any version of rthe Xerox PARC Alto for my museum. I am located in Southern Calif. IO might also have something equally valuable to trade (like a Silicon Graphics 2400 Turbo) in a mini. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021224/488918bd/attachment.html From freddy at kotelna.sk Tue Dec 24 21:50:09 2002 From: freddy at kotelna.sk (Adrien Farkas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: Digital SCSI Controller ??? In-Reply-To: <015101c2ab72$504c6300$030101ac@boll.casema.net> References: <015101c2ab72$504c6300$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <20021224215426.GA26767@kotol.kotelna.sk> Sipke de Wal (sipke@wxs.nl) wrote : > I was donated a very long (full PC-XT length) PCI card with: > -An Intel I960 CPU. > -A Symbios Login 53C720 -Chip > -A LSI LIA9616 21-40677-02 DC74468 NNM9642 WE1557 -Chip > -And Various SMD ram and Rom chips > > > Boardnumbers I found: > > -5022943-01-H01-P02 (SMS2) > -5422944-K Adapter > > Is there anybody out there who's got a clue ? according to various catalogues I do have here this _could_ be a hi-performance SCSI controller that could have been made by Cyclone (perhaps others manufacturers as well). I can send you pictures of these boards, perhaps you can find yours there. Does the board have additional connectors, add-on modules, SIMM/DIMM memories etc? Cheers, -- freddy ...for more info 'finger freddy@kotol.kotelna.sk' From ssmith12 at rochester.rr.com Tue Dec 24 21:50:35 2002 From: ssmith12 at rochester.rr.com (Steve Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: Otrona Attache Message-ID: <000801c2abbb$b1941060$015b4242@rochester.rr.com> Hi J.C., I have a functioning Attache (it has some video probs; like vertical roll) which I've owned since new. Should I fix it or sell it? If so, how (either/both). And who is this Donald that has all Otrona's inventory? If you don't mind my asking.... --Steve Smith -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021224/ec37d657/attachment.html From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Wed Dec 25 01:28:01 2002 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: Dinosaur Computer Company? Message-ID: <20021225073048.817BF169D5@www.fastmail.fm> I had a friend who was telling me once about a computer company he had heard of called, oddly enough, Dinosaur Computers. If memory serves me right, they were based out of the state he was living in at the time (either Michigan or Wisconsin, I don't remember which). Anyone know anything about these guys? -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://fastmail.fm - A fast, anti-spam email service. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Dec 25 09:00:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: Anyone have a Western Digital XT-IDE hard card or ROM image? In-Reply-To: <20021224235038.26960.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021225100456.0f57add4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Ethan, What brand of HardCard was it? If it's a real HardCard I think I have spares. Joe At 03:50 PM 12/24/02 -0800, you wrote: > >I've been trying to extract the data off of a 20MB XT-IDE drive >(WD-93024X) that was once part of a hard card. It has the software >for my B&C Microsystems UP600 device programmer. Too many swaps >and not enough sleep later, I have inserted the card in backwards >(no bracket and it's an 8-bit card). It's now DOA. The Compaq >Portable II I'm using complains of an I/O ROM error. > >So... I can check/replace any of the TTL on the card (74LS13, 74LS14, >74LS244, 74LS30, 73LS260), but the contents of the 2764 are possibly >lost to me. Does anyone have a ROM image or an old XT-IDE hard card? > >The P/N on the ROM is 62-000352-031. The assy no. on the PCB is >60-000227-03, the P/N appears to be 61-000347-01. > >No smoke got out, but it sure is unhappy. > >Thanks for any assistance. > >-ethan > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 25 10:23:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: Anyone have a Western Digital XT-IDE hard card or ROM image? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021225100456.0f57add4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20021225162600.83145.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Joe <rigdonj@cfl.rr.com> wrote: > Ethan, > > What brand of HardCard was it? If it's a real HardCard I think I have > spares. A real Western Digital Hard Card 20 with an XT-IDE (not MFM or discrete signals) I just discovered that I _really_ want to get this up600 working again - it has DRAM/SRAM/TTL/CMOS test mode, too. I never knew it did until I saw a hint of it when grepping through the application, and verified it in the manual. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Dec 25 13:04:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 anyone with some working experience out there? Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F1960342A7@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >As for a second RX01, I cannot help you. On the 86x0 you have a command to say that you really want >to play with a second RL02 instead of the standard one, but it's not very easy to use, and not >really ment for customers to play with. Then again, there isn't even a DIR command on the 86x0 >console (nor a command file to do the same). I should read those 8600 manuals but, not having an actual 8600, I lack the incentive :-) On the 11/780 that I used briefly many years ago, you could get to the console devices by doing CONNECT CONSOLE within SYSGEN and then the CSA0: and CSA1: devices were available (this is under VMS). The EXCHANGE utility could then get to the RT-11 formatted data. Similar deal for the VAX 82x0/83x0 and its RX50. I'd expect that something similar would apply to the VAX 8600. >As for copying the RX01. Install VMS on a drive, and play with that. >You have a command file for making copies of the console media there. I seem to remember Gunther and VMS not being such good friends last time around on a VAX 6000 - maybe he should try a smaller system first :-) I'm pretty sure that something like: $ SYSGEN SYSGEN> CONNECT CONSOLE SYSGEN> EXIT $ MOUNT/FOREIGN CSA1: $ HELP EXCHANGE should help (OK - I forget how to drive exchange!). I don't remember whether the console devices will be CSA1: and CSA2: or CSA0: and CSA1: ... SHOW DEVICE CS will sort that out. Merry Christmas, Antonio arcarlini@iee.org From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Dec 25 13:08:01 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: VT50 connection Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601B003@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >I am trying to find the 20mA connection diagram for a VT50 terminal. The VT50 is very similar to >the VT52, but has a terminal strip on the underside of the terminal where the 20mA connection is >made. I do not know which terminal is which. If anyone has a schematic of the VT50, I would very >much like a copy. A scan of the VT50/VT52 Pocket Service guide lives at http://www.vt100.net. There's a whole bunch of other VT5x stuff there too. I don't recall whether actual schematics are to be found there or not. Antonio From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Wed Dec 25 14:15:00 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 anyone with some working experience out there? References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F1960342A7@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> Message-ID: <3E0A11F5.2050804@aurora.regenstrief.org> Thanks Jonny and Antonio, Jonny's boot com file helped a little. At least I now know that something doesn't work (and not just me not knowing what to do :-) Although it's still looking pretty bad. I'm afraid the cold garage is causing some damage to the VAX. I did run the TEST again and got an error where I didn't get one last time. Now it complains that M8230 is defective ... I had an error in the second stage of the testing before, very strange, where the power state of the UNIBUS caused some memory check to fail or not to fail. I'm afraid that I have some backplane touble or something. I was going to try booting anyway just to see how far I could get. This time I got up until a "BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check" somewhere inside VMB.EXE running. I could never see any sign of special activity, neither from the RA90 drive nor the UDA-50. The UDA-50 shows the cycling pattern on the LEDs, not unlike the KDA-50 in my VAX6000s. It could be that I messed up the UDA-50s hardware address, so it may never be talked to. Is there a way of examining UNIBUS addresses from the console, so that I could see if some magic number comes up at a certain address on the UDA-50 that would indicate that I have the right hardware address? As for VMS, at this time I have the VMS 5.2 disk hooked on the 780, and I would gladly take VMS for now if it would get that far at all. regards, -Gunther From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 25 15:01:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: Computer Audio Tape Formats In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212171557280.29640-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <20021225210336.13239.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail <foo@siconic.com> wrote: > On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > > > I think the Commodore PET uses modified CUTS. It records each block > > twice, which is why it's relatively slow, but also pretty robust. > > If it records each block twice, and one block is bad, which of the two do > you trust? > > (Or is there a checksum involved too?) It compares both blocks, byte by byte, and if they do not match, it trusts neither one. You get a read error. It's not like the Space Shuttle main computers that vote, and the majority win (and the dissenters are ignored from that point on). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 25 15:14:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: RS232 or Parallel port based keyboards and joysticks In-Reply-To: <F148q4gtopWd7KKQpQq000006ae@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <20021225211635.26343.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Ram & Suganthi M." <ram_suganthi@hotmail.com> wrote: > I found the following website that basically does what I need using a SUN > Keyboard: > > http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~vojtech/input/adapters.html Excellent! Thanks for the pointer. I was recently asking about how to convert a PS/2 keyboard into RS-232. Since I have a quantity of Sun4 and Sun5 keyboards, this is a reasonable substitute. It's a solvable problem, but now the issue is baud rate... I'll have to build a box that speaks 1200 baud to the keyboard and does any filtering, etc., and speaks 9600 baud to the target. > As for joysticks, is the gameport joysticks a version of an RS232? No. They are resistive devices that are read by using a timer to count ticks for a simple RC circuit to trigger. I think someone pointed out that there is a Gravis product for laptops that _is_ a serial gamepad. I got a job once because someone asked how to hook a joystick up to an Alpha-based (Kubota) workstation under Digital Unix. My answer was of sufficient complexity that I was cut off in the middle with, "how soon can you come to New York?" Had a great week. The result was a virtual reality exhibit at the Wexner Center for the Arts including an invite to the opening and my name on the wall with the other people on the project. Big fun! Wouldn't have happened if that laptop gamepad had existed 8 years ago. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 25 15:19:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: Thrift Find: New Mattel Aquarius Message-ID: <20021225212141.62602.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> I was browsing at the Goodwill yesterday and ran across what seemed to be a new (out of box) Mattel Aquarius. It still had the plastic protector on the wall wart pins, and there were no scratches on those mains pins. The unit was clean overall with no noticable scratches or wear. Has cassette cable. The downside: $24.95. White tag, so no possibility of a discount. I've kinda always wanted an Aquarius, but that seems high to me. Am I wrong? I left it on the shelf. Did pick up an Apple PowerMac AV card with a pair of the mini-DIN-to-RCA input/output cables and a System 7.5 CD in the box - $5. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From computermuseum at pandora.be Wed Dec 25 15:28:00 2002 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: Thrift Find: New Mattel Aquarius In-Reply-To: <20021225212141.62602.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <NEBBIIKKPJIBINKJOILLAEGMCIAA.computermuseum@pandora.be> Hi, 24.95 Us$ is a normal price. You won't find them that much. My opinion is to buy it. Michel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens Ethan Dicks Verzonden: woensdag 25 december 2002 22:22 Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: Thrift Find: New Mattel Aquarius I was browsing at the Goodwill yesterday and ran across what seemed to be a new (out of box) Mattel Aquarius. It still had the plastic protector on the wall wart pins, and there were no scratches on those mains pins. The unit was clean overall with no noticable scratches or wear. Has cassette cable. The downside: $24.95. White tag, so no possibility of a discount. I've kinda always wanted an Aquarius, but that seems high to me. Am I wrong? I left it on the shelf. Did pick up an Apple PowerMac AV card with a pair of the mini-DIN-to-RCA input/output cables and a System 7.5 CD in the box - $5. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From marvin at rain.org Wed Dec 25 15:36:00 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: Microwave Experiments Message-ID: <3E0A256C.7896ED59@rain.org> I know this is OT, but I think most people on the list would enjoy this kind of stuff. There is also a link to a Plasmoid experiment and other interesting stuff! http://www.amasci.com/weird/microexp.html Merry Christmas to everyone!!! From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Dec 25 15:43:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 anyone with some working experience out there? In-Reply-To: <3E0A11F5.2050804@aurora.regenstrief.org> References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F1960342A7@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> <3E0A11F5.2050804@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212251624360.11643@panix1.panix.com> On Wed, 25 Dec 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Although it's still looking pretty bad. I'm afraid the cold > garage is causing some damage to the VAX. I did run the TEST Here in the northern Sierras, it's in the teens at night... white Xmas, yada/yada... which is why the 11/44 is nestled snugly in the dining room next to the fridge. A quick look at the Tech Manual shows the operating environmentals to be 41 - 122 F and 10 - 95%RH non-condensing for the CPU itself, and 50 - 104 F and 40 - 66%RH for peripherals. The nominal environment is 70F/45%RH. I don't know what the figures are for an 11/780, but I bet it's in that range. Recently I have acquired 24 RL02 packs of various descriptions that I have been going thru to see whats on them (one has a bootable RT11FB V5.1: woo-hoo!). The packs are in the (unheated) garage, and I've been keeping a few in the house to acclimatize as I check them. One, I brought in cold, let it sit in the drive for half an hour, and then loaded it. Although it spun up and came 'ready', it was not a happy disk until it had been run for about two hours, when the random errors finally smoothed out. I was concerned that I was going to crash my only RL02 drive. I'd sure like to be able to have The Machinery in one room and me in another, but no such luck... and I know plenty of folks who spent long years working in big machine rooms... 90+ dB all the time... no thanks. The 11/44 fans I find especially annoying - something about the timbre and spectrum of that sound really grates on me after a few hours... but I'm stuck with the machine in the house until summer, or I get a place with enough rooms to have a Computing Facility Wing, raised floors, heavy power, seperate HVAC.... dream on! Anyway - maybe a check of the lower operating temp bounds might shed some light on why your machine is Grumpy... Cheers and Best of the Season! John From pietstan at rogers.com Wed Dec 25 16:24:00 2002 From: pietstan at rogers.com (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: Digital SCSI Controller ??? References: <015101c2ab72$504c6300$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <3E0A3035.1070309@rogers.com> Other than the -H01-P02 sequence, the numbers agree with my KZPSA (mine is a -F01 variant). From waht I could find out about the card, it is a differerntial SCSI card, supposedly with single-channel RAID capabilities. It's not in use at the moment; NetBSD sees the card when it's in my NoNmae, but doesn't know what to do with it.... Sipke de Wal wrote: > I was donated a very long (full PC-XT length) PCI card with: > -An Intel I960 CPU. > -A Symbios Login 53C720 -Chip > -A LSI LIA9616 21-40677-02 DC74468 NNM9642 WE1557 -Chip > -And Various SMD ram and Rom chips > > > Boardnumbers I found: > > -5022943-01-H01-P02 (SMS2) > -5422944-K Adapter > > Is there anybody out there who's got a clue ? > > Sipke de Wal > -------------------------------------------------------- > http://xgistor.ath.cx > -------------------------------------------------------- > > From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Dec 25 17:42:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: Anyone have a Western Digital XT-IDE hard card or ROM image? In-Reply-To: <20021225162600.83145.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021225162600.83145.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212251745200.2546-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> On Wed, 25 Dec 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > What brand of HardCard was it? If it's a real HardCard I think I have > > spares. > > A real Western Digital Hard Card 20 with an XT-IDE (not MFM or discrete > signals) I thought I might still have one, but couldn't find one in my boxes of boards and such. I'm sure one will turn up right after you get yours working though :) > I just discovered that I _really_ want to get this up600 working again - > it has DRAM/SRAM/TTL/CMOS test mode, too. I never knew it did until I > saw a hint of it when grepping through the application, and verified it > in the manual. Nice! This is something I've been researching within the last few days. I have a pile of 4000 series CMOS logic chips I need to test before reinstalling in some ancient boards, but I'm at a loss as to the most efficient and simplest way to test them. Does anyone have any suggestions? I think most of the chips are 4011, 4027, 4028, 4042, 4049, etc. -Toth From acme at ao.net Wed Dec 25 17:45:00 2002 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: Noise levels (was VAX 11/780) Message-ID: <200212252347.SAA21793@eola.ao.net> From: John Lawson <jpl15@panix.com> To: Glen Goodwin <acme@ao.net> Subject: Re: VAX 11/780 anyone with some working experience out there? Date: 12/25/2002 4:47 PM > another, but no such luck... and I know plenty of folks who spent long > years working in big machine rooms... 90+ dB all the time... no thanks. Umm, 90+ dB? Can this be right?? That seems awfully loud. Is that typical for larger machines? Just one more thing to take into account before I seriously consider moving any larger equipment in here . . . Glen 0/0 From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Dec 25 18:49:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: Noise levels (was VAX 11/780) In-Reply-To: <200212252347.SAA21793@eola.ao.net> References: <200212252347.SAA21793@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212251931380.2887@panix1.panix.com> On Wed, 25 Dec 2002 acme@ao.net wrote: > Umm, 90+ dB? Can this be right?? That seems awfully loud. Is that typical for > larger machines? Direct measurement of my 11/44; 2 ESDI drives in an 11/23 chassis, 1 RL02: 79.1 dBC, @1 meter on-axis with front panel of CPU, quiet rural house winter night ambient, B&K noise meter of known recent calibration. Recorded spectra show strong peaks in the 300 - 600 Htz range, and quite a bit of energy in the harmonics of the fan noise, going out to 8 - 10 kHtz. In the early 80s, a friend was an analyst for Quotron Systems (stock trading and broker systems). I was several times in their big machine room, which at the time had a hugish 11/782, several /750s and a couple of /34s in some kind of data concentrator... many RP0x-type removable pack drives, about a dozen TU-whatever tape drives, and the rest of the usual suspects. The printer farm lived in it's own area, apart from the machine room. With the HVAC going, and all the fans and motors, it was necessary to shout to be heard, and (speaking as an audio professional) it was *at least* 90dB all the time, probably more, based on my experience with elevated noise environments. > Just one more thing to take into account before I seriously consider moving any > larger equipment in here . . . Like I said, it bugs me to distraction with this thing roaring away 5 feet behind me, and it's a decided relief when I shut 'er down and Peace rules once again... ;} I *really do* want a "machine room" of some kind... even for my small installation. My previous collection made even more noise, and *it* was also in the damned room with me. Like I said: Someday...... Cheers John From rschaefe at gcfn.org Wed Dec 25 19:01:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: Thrift Find: New Mattel Aquarius References: <20021225212141.62602.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002601c2ac7a$bd245e20$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" <erd_6502@yahoo.com> To: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2002 4:21 PM Subject: Thrift Find: New Mattel Aquarius > I was browsing at the Goodwill yesterday and ran across what seemed > to be a new (out of box) Mattel Aquarius. It still had the plastic > protector on the wall wart pins, and there were no scratches on > those mains pins. The unit was clean overall with no noticable > scratches or wear. Has cassette cable. The downside: $24.95. White tag, > so no possibility of a discount. Oof. I'm so disappointed with the local thrift stores-- aren't they supposed to be non-profit? > > I've kinda always wanted an Aquarius, but that seems high to me. Am I > wrong? Well, as another data point, I got my Aquarius, mostly in the box, for IIRC US$2.98. Also, got tape deck, printer, expansion module, 4k RAM cart., and a few games, also for US$2.98 each, also mostly in boxes. Total payout was right around your price. I only picked it up because there were so many pieces. I've been trying to get around to offering it for trade. If you want it, stop by and pick it up. If anyone else wants it, I'd like to recoupe my initial investment, preferably in trade for other classic hardware. > > I left it on the shelf. Did pick up an Apple PowerMac AV card with > a pair of the mini-DIN-to-RCA input/output cables and a System 7.5 > CD in the box - $5. Which store? That new one across from Big Bear? I picked up DOS 5.0 from there for a buck or so, but passed up the cracked LCD screens. Somebody must've dropped off a load of broken parts. Assholes. > > -ethan Bob From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Dec 25 20:34:45 2002 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: Test message Message-ID: <200212251836130625.09AA1679@192.168.42.129> Pardon the test. Merry Christmas. ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From mhscc at canada.com Wed Dec 25 21:10:00 2002 From: mhscc at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: Happy Holidays Message-ID: <000501c2ac8c$bbf093e0$5b4a3dcf@msed03> Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, Happy New Year, Fruitful Collecting, whatever good wishes mean the most to you! It's been fun and interesting to be a part of this group for the last year and a half or so; thanks! mike From fernande at internet1.net Wed Dec 25 21:41:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: Test message In-Reply-To: <200212251836130625.09AA1679@192.168.42.129> References: <200212251836130625.09AA1679@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <3E0A7AEF.2080805@internet1.net> Bruce Lane wrote: > Pardon the test. > > Merry Christmas. ;-) Oh No.... Merry Christmas to YOU!! :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 25 22:22:01 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:49 2005 Subject: Trying to make a connector for my Documation M200 card reader Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212251200490.22605-100000@siconic.com> So I'm using the holiday pause to hopefully get my project to build an interface for my Documation M200 card reader back on track. I'm using an Apple ][ with a serial card and custom 6522 VIA card as a parallel to serial converter. The 6522 has just enough inputs to read all data and signal lines from the reader. The documenation from the reader is online thanks to David Gesswein. It has been very helpful, but proves to be too cryptic for this novice to be able to build the connector. I have the ELCO connector almost all wired up. The last step is to get the wiring between the cable and the 6522 VIA connector bridge that I've built. The manual says the output is a "type 7404 TTL output" and a diagram in the same shows some voltages and current draws that make no sense to me and don't really facilitate an understanding (at least to this untrained eye) of what to expect on the pins as data is read. From charles at socketcom.com Wed Dec 25 23:40:25 2002 From: charles at socketcom.com (Charles Ader) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:50 2005 Subject: Looking for HP 10342B Bus Preprocessor software Message-ID: <000701c2aca1$9840f060$2200a8c0@homeportal.2wire.net> I am trying to find the software that is needed for an HP 16500A logic analyzer to operate the HP 10342B Bus Preprocessor. The HP16500A I am using has an 16510A analyzer module. I just need the analyzer setup files and inverse assembler. Thanks, Charles Ader. From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 25 23:45:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:50 2005 Subject: Computer Audio Tape Formats In-Reply-To: <20021225210336.13239.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212251346480.23121-100000@siconic.com> On Wed, 25 Dec 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > It's not like the Space Shuttle main computers that vote, and the majority > win (and the dissenters are ignored from that point on). Democratic Computing? What a concept! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 25 23:48:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:50 2005 Subject: Thrift Find: New Mattel Aquarius In-Reply-To: <20021225212141.62602.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212251348000.23121-100000@siconic.com> On Wed, 25 Dec 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I was browsing at the Goodwill yesterday and ran across what seemed > to be a new (out of box) Mattel Aquarius. It still had the plastic > protector on the wall wart pins, and there were no scratches on > those mains pins. The unit was clean overall with no noticable > scratches or wear. Has cassette cable. The downside: $24.95. White tag, > so no possibility of a discount. > > I've kinda always wanted an Aquarius, but that seems high to me. Am I > wrong? No (even according to eBay prices). Even for a nice, shiny unit it's a bit high priced. I'd wait until it came down to at least half that. However, I could REALLY use the cassette cable, which would round out my Aquarius collection (and bring me back to where I was at age 12 with my first computer ;) Happy Holidays all! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 25 23:48:28 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:50 2005 Subject: Thrift Find: New Mattel Aquarius In-Reply-To: <NEBBIIKKPJIBINKJOILLAEGMCIAA.computermuseum@pandora.be> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212251350380.23121-100000@siconic.com> On Wed, 25 Dec 2002, Computermuseum wrote: > Hi, > > 24.95 Us$ is a normal price. > You won't find them that much. > > My opinion is to buy it. Perhaps in Belgium ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From glenslick at hotmail.com Wed Dec 25 23:59:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:50 2005 Subject: Looking for HP 10342B Bus Preprocessor software Message-ID: <F47PEkGhAj5p1Fjxe0y0002460d@hotmail.com> I have them. I can send you a .zip file with them. -Glen >From: "Charles Ader" <charles@socketcom.com> >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: <cctech@classiccmp.org> >Subject: Looking for HP 10342B Bus Preprocessor software >Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 21:42:30 -0800 > >I am trying to find the software that is needed >for an HP 16500A logic analyzer to operate the >HP 10342B Bus Preprocessor. > >The HP16500A I am using has an 16510A analyzer >module. I just need the analyzer setup files and >inverse assembler. > >Thanks, >Charles Ader. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf From computermuseum at pandora.be Thu Dec 26 02:45:00 2002 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:50 2005 Subject: Thrift Find: New Mattel Aquarius In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212251350380.23121-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <NEBBIIKKPJIBINKJOILLEEHBCIAA.computermuseum@pandora.be> I've got already two of them, but Matel didn't produce that many units.... That's why i saying buy it ... maybe you have to check the serial number.. maybe you are lucky to have one with a little serial number. Michel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens Sellam Ismail Verzonden: woensdag 25 december 2002 22:51 Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: RE: Thrift Find: New Mattel Aquarius On Wed, 25 Dec 2002, Computermuseum wrote: > Hi, > > 24.95 Us$ is a normal price. > You won't find them that much. > > My opinion is to buy it. Perhaps in Belgium ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From evan947 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 26 06:28:28 2002 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:50 2005 Subject: Other (non-HP) DOS clamshells? Message-ID: <20021226123106.515.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all... besides than the HP-95/100/200, what are other DOS clamshells of the era? I'm aware of the Atari Portfolio and the Poqet device, but there are several more, methinks... __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Dec 26 08:13:00 2002 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:50 2005 Subject: Atari PCH204 References: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEGECNCGAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> Message-ID: <000f01c2abcd$6f713250$0b01010a@cvendel> I'm working on a more indepth look at the PC-1's sometime in the future, there's so many items from Atari I try to do a little bit on each area across the board and I would certainly like to put a lot more up about the PC-1's, they were very elegantly designed machines, their only flaw is that they were only 8088's and not something a tad bit more powerful, but they run the original version of GEM perfectly :-) I probably can help you with getting you an additional PCH drive if you need it, if anyone else is interested in PC-1's, I have numerous spares available for trade of other vintage items, contact me off-list. Happy Holidays :-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Witchy" <witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> To: <cctech@classiccmp.org> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 11:43 AM Subject: RE: Atari PCH204 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Curt Vendel > > Sent: 24 December 2002 05:08 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: Atari PCH204 > > > > > > Hi Witchy, > > > > I've got a stack of the buggers in my storage room. > > Basically they were > > intended for use on the PC Series of computers. Interestingly enough, > > Atari had about 3 different versions of them, one with an Atari ASCI > > interface, others SASI and another straight MFM. Inside the > > PC-1's is an > > ISA compatible set of headers and you plugged an adaptec > > controller card in > > and it would have an external interface port, one had straight > > pinouts going > > to a ribbon cable into the PCH204 with an internal MFM controller. I > > don't think Atari really knew which way that had wanted to go at the time > > and while it was a very big and bold project, they canned the PC-1 just a > > few months after its launch realizing it was too little too late in > > releasing an XT-ish clone in 87 and they concentrated on their > > 286, 386 and > > 486sx clones. > > Thanks for that, Curt and Hans. > > I'm now going to have to delve thru the layers of shielding to see exactly > what's what now; it's been a couple of years since I last had them in bits > when the machine wouldn't boot because the drive had seized. Mine has the > ribbon cable between the 2 boxes, but I remember thinking it looked like > some sort of SCSI/SASI drive though, not MFM, or did some 3 1/2" MFM drives > also have the berg style connector on? > > There's not a lot of info on the web about this machine and the PC2 and PC3 > either - I would've thought the likes of atari-history.com would have access > to all the details. > > Oh, and if you fancy parting with one of the drives I know someone in > Belgium who's very interested :) > > cheers > > -- > adrian/witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans > From john at elsbree.org Thu Dec 26 08:14:04 2002 From: john at elsbree.org (John Elsbree) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:50 2005 Subject: Free to a good home: DEC VT330 Message-ID: <000301c2abe8$fbc43f20$6b7ba8c0@elsbreelib> Wow, there was a lot of interest in this item! It has now been claimed. Happy holidays everyone, John -----Original Message----- From: John Elsbree [mailto:john@elsbree.org] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 4:36 PM To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' Subject: Free to a good home: DEC VT330 Free + shipping: DEC VT330 monochrome graphics terminal. Excellent condition, in working order. Includes LK201 keyboard, VSXXX mouse, and 3 "preliminary draft" manuals: - Installing and Using - Programmer Reference Manual, Vol I: Text Programming - Programmer Reference Manual, Vol II: Graphics Programming This was a "field test" unit from the days when I was a beta site for DEC. Please reply off-list. John john@elsbree.org From ian_primus at yahoo.com Thu Dec 26 09:31:01 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:50 2005 Subject: Other (non-HP) DOS clamshells? In-Reply-To: <20021226123106.515.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <76002660-18E7-11D7-A5F2-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> I have a Toshiba and a Grid here that are the "clamshell" design. They are a lot bigger than the HP's though... Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Thursday, December 26, 2002, at 07:31 AM, evan wrote: > Hi all... besides than the HP-95/100/200, what are > other DOS clamshells of the era? I'm aware of the > Atari Portfolio and the Poqet device, but there are > several more, methinks... > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > From kth at srv.net Thu Dec 26 10:19:01 2002 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:50 2005 Subject: DEC LA36 References: <4BA5831E03C7344CBB232AF088EB9D800F16CA@COLUMBUS.int.ca.pason.com> Message-ID: <3E0B30B7.1070903@srv.net> Barry Moyer wrote: >Don, > >I am in Calgary and I have a newer LA36, but I am looking for another older >LA36 with a 20mA loop connection. You can contact me at 'iamvirtual at >hotmail dot com' (replace at with @, dot with .) > > I believe that the 20ma current loop was available for all the LA36's. It was just a different cabling option, bit a 'new' or 'old' version thing. You could buy the 20ma current loop with your LA36, or later as an option to change an existing one from RS232 to 20ma. From foo at siconic.com Thu Dec 26 11:32:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Thrift Find: New Mattel Aquarius In-Reply-To: <NEBBIIKKPJIBINKJOILLEEHBCIAA.computermuseum@pandora.be> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212260931520.24972-100000@siconic.com> On Thu, 26 Dec 2002, Computermuseum wrote: > I've got already two of them, but Matel didn't produce that many units.... Actually, these are not that uncommon in the US. Probably tens of thousands of units were sold worldwide. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 26 12:38:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Trying to make a connector for my Documation M200 card reader In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212251200490.22605-100000@siconic.com> from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Dec 25, 2 12:24:07 pm Message-ID: <m18Rcoa-000IzvC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2113 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021226/dd7b0048/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Dec 26 12:58:29 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Noise levels (was VAX 11/780) In-Reply-To: <200212252347.SAA21793@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: <4EB7DC36-1904-11D7-BF20-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Wednesday, December 25, 2002, at 06:47 PM, acme@ao.net wrote: >> another, but no such luck... and I know plenty of folks who spent >> long >> years working in big machine rooms... 90+ dB all the time... no >> thanks. > > Umm, 90+ dB? Can this be right?? That seems awfully loud. Is that > typical for > larger machines? Many machines, yes, but some designers have met with success using large-diameter, slow-turning blowers as are found in machines like DEC VAX6000s and AlphaServer 8400s. These blowers are very large, and surprisingly quiet. For more "traditional" cooling systems (dozens of screaming muffin fans) it definitely pays to make whatever household modifications it takes to support a large-machine lifestyle. ;) I hear a low rumble coming from my machine room, which is mostly conducted through the structure of the house and isn't really noticeable. I love my machines, but it's nice to not need to work in there very often...can't hear myself think! -Dave -- Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols From bqt at update.uu.se Thu Dec 26 13:10:00 2002 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 anyone with some working experience out there? In-Reply-To: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F1960342A7@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0212261959180.15545-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE> On Wed, 25 Dec 2002, Antonio Carlini wrote: > I should read those 8600 manuals but, not having an actual > 8600, I lack the incentive :-) On the 11/780 that I > used briefly many years ago, you could get to the console > devices by doing CONNECT CONSOLE within SYSGEN and then > the CSA0: and CSA1: devices were available (this is > under VMS). The EXCHANGE utility could then get to > the RT-11 formatted data. Similar deal for the > VAX 82x0/83x0 and its RX50. I'd expect that something > similar would apply to the VAX 8600. No. The 86x0 usually don't have more than one console drive, so VMS never expects to find two drives, and if you connect console, you only get CSA0: (admittedly I haven't really tried what would happen if I actually had two drives). What I was referring to was that at the console, you can set the flag STXALT. To quote the documentation: " STXALT- This flag is set OFF during console program initialization, but its state is preserved through console reboots. The purpose of the STXALT flag is to indicate that disk IO at the request of the CPU (via the STX registers) is to be on the alternate console disk (unit #1). This flag is intended for use by manufacturing and NOT FOR CUSTOMER USE. When STXALT is set ON all console disk transfers continue to access RL unit 0; all STX transfers access unit 1." > >As for copying the RX01. Install VMS on a drive, and play with that. > >You have a command file for making copies of the console media there. > > I seem to remember Gunther and VMS not being such good > friends last time around on a VAX 6000 - maybe he should > try a smaller system first :-) > > I'm pretty sure that something like: > $ SYSGEN > SYSGEN> CONNECT CONSOLE > SYSGEN> EXIT > $ MOUNT/FOREIGN CSA1: > $ HELP EXCHANGE > > should help (OK - I forget how to drive exchange!). It's even easier than that: $ @SYS$UPDATE:CONSCOPY It starts like this: $ @sys$update:conscopy S Y S $ U P D A T E : C O N S C O P Y . C O M Save or restore a VMS console medium. Which CPU kit do you want to build? 78X includes 11/780 and 11/785 8600 includes 8650 8200 includes 8250, 8300 and 8350 [8600, 8200, 78X, 750 or 730, default <unknown>]: And this is in OVMS 7.3, so it's still around. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From cb at mythtech.net Thu Dec 26 13:14:01 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: PCjr with sidecard Message-ID: <S.0000101858@mythtech.net> My local thrift store has (had?) a PCjr with parallel port sidecard on the 24th. They were asking $12.50 for it. No keyboard, power brick, or any other parts were visible. My guess is they had no idea what it was, since they have a policy against selling computers. It was there on the 24th, so it might still be there now. If anyone wants it, I can pick it up for them. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net> From charles at socketcom.com Thu Dec 26 13:16:18 2002 From: charles at socketcom.com (Charles Ader) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Looking for HP 10342B Bus Preprocessor software References: <F85zNFfhWVz6g6m8XFl00001396@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <001001c2ad13$952c7da0$2200a8c0@homeportal.2wire.net> Glen, Thanks for the reply. The files on your ZIP archive do not want to load on my 16500A. How did you create the archive? When I look at the files with a HEX editor the seem to be in the HP LIF format. I used the LIFUTIL.EXE to create a disk that my analyzer can read but the files all appear to be corrupted. Thanks, Charles. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glen S" <glenslick@hotmail.com> To: <charles@socketcom.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2002 10:04 PM Subject: Re: Looking for HP 10342B Bus Preprocessor software > Try the attached .zip file. > > -Glen > > > >From: "Charles Ader" <charles@socketcom.com> > >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >To: <cctech@classiccmp.org> > >Subject: Looking for HP 10342B Bus Preprocessor software > >Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 21:42:30 -0800 > > > >I am trying to find the software that is needed > >for an HP 16500A logic analyzer to operate the > >HP 10342B Bus Preprocessor. > > > >The HP16500A I am using has an 16510A analyzer > >module. I just need the analyzer setup files and > >inverse assembler. > > > >Thanks, > >Charles Ader. From bqt at update.uu.se Thu Dec 26 13:19:01 2002 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 anyone with some working experience out there? In-Reply-To: <3E0A11F5.2050804@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0212262013060.15545-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE> On Wed, 25 Dec 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Jonny's boot com file helped a little. At least I now know that > something doesn't work (and not just me not knowing what to do :-) Assuming that you have a working disk... :-) Glad the file came through. Seems some virus catchers are of the opinion that my boot.com is a virus. :-) > Although it's still looking pretty bad. I'm afraid the cold > garage is causing some damage to the VAX. I did run the TEST > again and got an error where I didn't get one last time. Now > it complains that M8230 is defective ... That's definitely a bad sign. > This time I got up until a "BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check" somewhere > inside VMB.EXE running. Okay. So VMB is running. That's good news. Do you have any kind of system on any disk, that should boot (Ultrix, VMS, 4.3BSD ?). > I could never see any sign of special > activity, neither from the RA90 drive nor the UDA-50. It would flicker very briefly, but I suppose you should see some action. Anyhow, the A or B button should light up if things are working. I assume you have the cabling correct. You know. The total number of cables between the UDA-50 and the disk must be an odd number. And that you have the A and/or B channel selected (matching your cables connection). > The UDA-50 > shows the cycling pattern on the LEDs, not unlike the KDA-50 in > my VAX6000s. That's the normal idle pattern. Shows that the UDA-50 is working correctly. > It could be that I messed up the UDA-50s hardware > address, so it may never be talked to. Is there a way of examining > UNIBUS addresses from the console, so that I could see if some > magic number comes up at a certain address on the UDA-50 that > would indicate that I have the right hardware address? Yech. Yes, it can be done. No, I won't try to tell you how. Perhaps someone a little more familiar with the unibus map and all the stuff can help out (probably ragge, or someone else who have played exensively with it). I'm just happy I don't have to. I could probably figure it out if I had to, but it's a minor headache. Basically you have to just configure the unibus map, and then find the UDA-50 in the address range that UBA have. The UDA-50 should be at 772150 (8) in that range. > As for VMS, at this time I have the VMS 5.2 disk hooked on the > 780, and I would gladly take VMS for now if it would get that > far at all. Well, if you have a known working VMS disk, set it to write protect, and then try booting it. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 26 13:28:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Thrift Find: New Mattel Aquarius In-Reply-To: <002601c2ac7a$bd245e20$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <20021226193045.15690.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Robert F. Schaefer" <rschaefe@gcfn.org> wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ethan Dicks" <erd_6502@yahoo.com> > To: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2002 4:21 PM > Subject: Thrift Find: New Mattel Aquarius > > > > I was browsing at the Goodwill yesterday and ran across what seemed > > to be a new (out of box) Mattel Aquarius... > Well, as another data point, I got my Aquarius, mostly in the box, for > IIRC US$2.98... Total payout was right around your price. I remember you posting about it. > I only picked it up because there were so many pieces. This one has very little in the way of accessories which is why I thought it was too expensive. > I've been trying to get around to offering it for trade. If you > want it, stop by and pick it up. I might do that. When is good? > Which store? That new one across from Big Bear? Yep. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 26 13:32:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Anyone have a Western Digital XT-IDE hard card or ROM image? In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212251745200.2546-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> Message-ID: <20021226193435.54249.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tothwolf <tothwolf@concentric.net> wrote: > Nice! This is something I've been researching within the last few days. I > have a pile of 4000 series CMOS logic chips I need to test before > reinstalling in some ancient boards, but I'm at a loss as to the most > efficient and simplest way to test them. Does anyone have any > suggestions? > I think most of the chips are 4011, 4027, 4028, 4042, 4049, etc. I have a hand-held chip tester that I got a while ago (+10 years). We paid back its cost on the first use at work: an IBM 5150 PC that was used as a terminal for a Northwest Instruments analyzer began beefing about some problem or another. We gave the chip tester to an intern and told them to start testing RAMs. Found the offending 4164 and pulled one from the parts bins above his head. Put a $20,000 anaylzer back to work. In the absence of a chip tester, I have no good solution except to build one. Given the level of effort involved, unless you are doing it for fun, it's cheaper to go out and buy one. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From djg at drs-esg.com Thu Dec 26 14:16:00 2002 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Trying to make a connector for my Documation M200 card reader Message-ID: <200212262018.PAA07070@drs-esg.com> >From: Vintage Computer Festival <vcf@siconic.com> >>From Section 5.4: Signal Characteristics: > >"The standard interface is supplied as the output of TTL type 7404. >Signal sense is specified as a Logical TRUE and is a positive level; >logical FALSE is a ground level. Circuit characteristics are shown in >figure 5-2." > >This excerpt can be found on Page 46 at: > >http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/query_docs/tifftopdf.pl/pdp8docs/74226-300dpi.pdf > >(warning: this server is a bit slow) > Seems fine from here :-). It's a mighty 486-133 (and meets the 10 year rule) with a 384k DSL. Most of the documents have a link to a copy mirrired on highgate which has better connectivity. I assume it was the speed of downloading the documents you were commenting on. >Figure 5-2 is approximately this: > > o Output Drive > | TTL type 7416 > / > \ I Logical True > R / load Iload = -400 ua @ 2.4V min (with R=5.6K) > \ > | > +---------------> > | > / > | I Logical False >-----| sink Isink = 16 ma @ 0.4V max > | > \v > | > +---------------< > | > GND > >So I was told before that the way this works is that a signal will be >output as "Logical True" voltage when the data is a '1' and a "Logical >False" when the data is a '0'. But the way the connector is wired is >confusing. > >Each of the 12 data lines (for reading the holes on the card) has 2 pins: >the "data" pin and then the "data return" pin. See page 45 of the URL >above. > The return is the ground reference. >I imagine the data pin goes into one of my inputs on the 6522 (which >handles TTL levels). However, I was told by Jim Willing that I should use >an optoisolator in between the output of the reader and the 6522 because >the output voltage is clamped mechanically(?) > It appears to be driven by a TTL Logic. Page 10-3 shows the output connector which data lines go to the control card pg 10-20 and the returns go to the DC return (power supply ground). From page 5-6 which you got the output diagram from it says that twisted pair cable was recommended with the returns terminated close as possible to the data receivers. Running the grounds with the data lines in the twisted pair like that gave a little more noise immunity. The control card parts list (PG 12-31) seems to have a couple versions, normal TTL (7404), open collector outputs (7416) with pullups or open collector with inverted data (7417). >But where does the RET >(return) pin go? To ground? > Ground it to the ground of your receiver card. >Do I really need the optoisolators? Is the >6522 robust enough to just take the raw signal from the reader output? > I wouldn't bother with the optoisolators and I don't think the PDP-8 card did either. Anybody have a spare M843 CR8E card reader control or schematics for it? Polling from an Apple ][ should be slow enough that it won't see the glitches that are likely to happen on transisions of the index mark signal. I frequently will read strobe signals like that until I get the same value twice then act on it. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. Have any PDP-8 stuff you're willing to part with? From truthanl at oclc.org Thu Dec 26 15:39:00 2002 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: DEC LA36 Decwriter II Message-ID: <90D12689EF7A0543AB11426D75D6ABC50358F02B@oa4-server.oa.oclc.org> I have the engineering prints in the LA 36 Decwriter II LA36 (MPC5) sheet 5 of 8 shows 20 ma RECIEVE on J3 pin 7(+) and Pin 3(-) bridged by a 3.3 volt zener D4 746A feeding a 4N26 (E43) opto-isolator which drives a MXAA05 (Q4) driver transitor which has its collector on J4 pin 2 "S.I." (serial in) 20 ma TRANSMIT is on J3 Pin 5(+) and Pin 2(-). These pins are bridged by a 1N4004 diode D6. This diode also is parallel to the emitter/collector of Q2, an A05. which is driven by another 4N26 opto-isolator (E47). S.O. is J4 pin 4. It is driven by a 7404 inverter (E62)-(Input is 7404 pin 3 connected to the diode cathode of the opto-isolator, output is 7404 pin 4, which connects directly to J4 pin 4, "S.O." serial out) Sincerely Larry Truthan In reply to: Message: 29 Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 09:39:19 -0700 From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: DEC LA36 From foo at siconic.com Thu Dec 26 16:04:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Trying to make a connector for my Documation M200 card reader In-Reply-To: <m18Rcoa-000IzvC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212261401290.25560-100000@siconic.com> On Thu, 26 Dec 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > The first confusion is to whether it's a 7404 output (as specified here) > or a 7416 output (as shown in the diagram). The main difference to you is > that the '16 is an open-collector device. If it's that, you need to wire > a pull-up resistor (1k or so) between the output signal line and a +5V > supply (take that from the Apple). If it's a '04, then you don't need > these resistors. That is indeed one main element of my confusion. Why do simple errors like this make it past the technical writers? How do I know for sure which to use? Is there some way I can check with a simple volt meter or something? > IIRC, the 'return' pins are just grounds. They're all linked together > inside the reader, and linked to the reader's 0V rail. The idea is to use > twided pair cable, one wire for the signal, one for the return. On > short-ish cable runs you shouldn't need to do this -- just wire up some > of the 'return' wires to ground at the Apple end. Ok, this is also what John Lawson instructed, which makes sense. My cable is less than 10ft long (about 3m). > The M200 has a fair amount of electronics in it, and I can assure you > that the outputs come from logic ICs, not from mechanical contacts. You > don't need optoisolators. This is the opposite of what John tells me. You're both highly competent. To whom shall I defer? (I would prefer to defer to you because it means far less work for me ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Dec 26 16:16:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Trying to make a connector for my Documation M200 card reader In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212261401290.25560-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212261714370.8824-100000@ibm-ps850.purdueriots.com> On Thu, 26 Dec 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 26 Dec 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > The first confusion is to whether it's a 7404 output (as specified here) > > or a 7416 output (as shown in the diagram). The main difference to you is > > that the '16 is an open-collector device. If it's that, you need to wire > > a pull-up resistor (1k or so) between the output signal line and a +5V > > supply (take that from the Apple). If it's a '04, then you don't need > > these resistors. > > That is indeed one main element of my confusion. Why do simple errors > like this make it past the technical writers? > > How do I know for sure which to use? Is there some way I can check with a > simple volt meter or something? You should be able to tell... check if it gives a close to +5V output for a high signal (relative to the 'return line') with, say, a 470ohm resistor to ground. you may also want to check that it gives a close to 0V output for a low signal If so, you don't need the pullup resistors. > > The M200 has a fair amount of electronics in it, and I can assure you > > that the outputs come from logic ICs, not from mechanical contacts. You > > don't need optoisolators. > > This is the opposite of what John tells me. You're both highly competent. > To whom shall I defer? You can always trace back the data lines inside the reader, to see if they run to mechanical contacts or some sort of semiconductors. Just be careful that you don't generate a ground loop if the ground on the reader and the Apple are at different voltage levels and somehow associated - like something on the lo-v side of the power supply connected to earth ground. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Dec 26 16:22:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Documation - Apple I/O In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212261401290.25560-100000@siconic.com> References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212261401290.25560-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212261715380.5944@panix2.panix.com> Just to take the "opto / no opto" discussion public.. in respect of connecting the Documation TTL outputs to the TTL inputs of an Apple VIA card in an Apple ][ ... I respectfully beg to disagree with my Learned Friend Dr. Duell. As I privately wrote to Sellam, I am afraid of (and have been badly bitten by) directly interfacing dissimilar machines, and then encountering poorly-designed power supplies that 'hunt' and attempt to regulate each other over the logic lines, with occasionally spectacular results. Wiring up a couple of octal or hex optoisolators should take a two hours max, and then no worries, Moit! I am just trying to err on the side of caution. Were it me, with my resources and equipment, I'd just measure between the devices to make sure no VooDoo was lying in wait, then go ahead and splice the cables. In Sellam's case, he does not have rooms full of sophisticated test gear, and so I thought isolating the signals would serve to protect the machines, especially the card reader I/O circuits. Your Milage May Vary, as they say. Cheers John From foo at siconic.com Thu Dec 26 16:23:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Trying to make a connector for my Documation M200 card reader In-Reply-To: <200212262018.PAA07070@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212261408500.25560-100000@siconic.com> On Thu, 26 Dec 2002, David Gesswein wrote: > >(warning: this server is a bit slow) > > > Seems fine from here :-). It's a mighty 486-133 (and meets the 10 year rule) > with a 384k DSL. Most of the documents have a link to a copy mirrired on > highgate which has better connectivity. I assume it was the speed of > downloading the documents you were commenting on. Yes, it took a while for the page to come up after I clicked on the link. But anyway, thanks very much for providing the scan. Without it I would be sunk! > It appears to be driven by a TTL Logic. Page 10-3 shows the output connector > which data lines go to the control card pg 10-20 and the returns go to the > DC return (power supply ground). From page 5-6 which you got the output > diagram from it says that twisted pair cable was recommended with the > returns terminated close as possible to the data receivers. Running The cable I used was a 50-pin SCSI, and the lines inside were all twisted pair, so that much is good. I of course used one pair for each signal pin and its return. > the grounds with the data lines in the twisted pair like that gave a little > more noise immunity. The control card parts list (PG 12-31) seems to have a > couple versions, normal TTL (7404), open collector outputs (7416) with pullups > or open collector with inverted data (7417). So I guess I should open my reader up and find out which version it used in order to determine how to wire up my connector to the 6522? > I wouldn't bother with the optoisolators and I don't think the PDP-8 card > did either. Anybody have a spare M843 CR8E card reader control > or schematics for it? Polling from an Apple ][ should be slow enough that > it won't see the glitches that are likely to happen on transisions of the > index mark signal. I frequently will read strobe signals like that until > I get the same value twice then act on it. Jim Willing also warned of the glitches. He said it was so noisy that it was a challenge to build a proper receiver. At any rate, the way I understand it, I wait for the IM (Index Mark) signal from the reader to go high which indicates a column has been read. Shouldn't the character data be stable at that point? What am I missing? Here's the process I gleaned from the docs: 1. Put the PC (Pick Command) pin high for 1us*. 2. The BSY (Busy) indicator pin will go high when the leading edge of the card is detected (and will go low when the card clears the reader track). 3. There will be an IM (Index Mark) every time a column has been read, and so the data for each column should then be available on the data signal pins (D1-D9,D0,D11,D12). * For card-at-a-time mode, the PC pin should be pulsed for 1us to draw the next card from the input hopper. For continuous mode, PC should be kept high. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From iamvirtual at hotmail.com Thu Dec 26 16:41:00 2002 From: iamvirtual at hotmail.com (Fred Flintstone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: DEC LA36 Decwriter II Message-ID: <F201GdKO8FNpyLAPDVX0000dea8@hotmail.com> I guess I should have been more specific :-) I have what appears to be an OEM LA36. The label on the front says 'Data Terminal Mart'. On the back, there is a label from Digital which gives the model number as LA36DP. The processor board inside is made by Datasouth Computer Corporation (P/N 512000-2). There is an 8 DIPswitch located on the board. I do not have any documentation for this particular model and thus, I do not know what the settings should be on the switches. I do have user docs for an older LA36, but it does not cover my particular model. I am looking for information on the LA36, specifically the 8 dip switches. What I am trying to accomplish is to get the terminal console working on my PDP-11/10 (really it is a PDP-11/05) prior to getting my PDP-11/20 running. When I hook everything up, the SCL on the PDP-11/10 has the expected voltages. When I connect it up to the LA36, the voltages are driven to near 0v. I am not sure I have things hooked up correctly, or if there is a problem with the SCL. I used the docs I had for the older LA36 to connect my LA36DP. The connections I made were from T+ on the PDP-11 to R+ on the LA36 and T- on the PDP-11 to R- on the LA36. When the LA36 is not connected, there is no voltage on the Transmit/Receive which I am presuming means the LA36 is in passive mode. Voltages are present on the Transmit/Receive on the PDP-11 side, and I presume the SCL is in active mode. Unfortunately, I am not sure if this is correct (I am from the RS232 generation, the 20mA is slightly confusing). Any ideas? >From: "Truthan,Larry" <truthanl@oclc.org> >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: "'iamvirtual@hotmail.com'" <iamvirtual@hotmail.com> >CC: "'cctalk@classiccmp.org'" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> >Subject: DEC LA36 Decwriter II >Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 16:42:02 -0500 > >I have the engineering prints in the LA 36 Decwriter II > >LA36 (MPC5) sheet 5 of 8 shows 20 ma RECIEVE on J3 pin 7(+) and Pin 3(-) >bridged by a 3.3 volt zener D4 746A feeding a 4N26 (E43) opto-isolator >which drives a MXAA05 (Q4) driver transitor which has its collector on J4 >pin 2 "S.I." (serial in) > >20 ma TRANSMIT is on J3 Pin 5(+) and Pin 2(-). These pins are bridged >by a 1N4004 diode D6. This diode also is parallel to the >emitter/collector of Q2, an A05. which is driven by another 4N26 >opto-isolator (E47). S.O. is J4 pin 4. It is driven by a 7404 >inverter >(E62)-(Input is 7404 pin 3 connected to the diode cathode of the >opto-isolator, output is 7404 pin 4, which connects directly to J4 pin 4, >"S.O." serial out) > >Sincerely > >Larry Truthan > > >In reply to: > >Message: 29 >Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 09:39:19 -0700 >From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: DEC LA36 _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_stopmorespam_3mf From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 26 17:03:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Trying to make a connector for my Documation M200 card reader In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212261401290.25560-100000@siconic.com> from "Sellam Ismail" at Dec 26, 2 02:05:20 pm Message-ID: <m18Rh0Y-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2093 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021226/88b03127/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 26 17:10:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Trying to make a connector for my Documation M200 card reader In-Reply-To: <200212262018.PAA07070@drs-esg.com> from "David Gesswein" at Dec 26, 2 03:18:52 pm Message-ID: <m18Rh6j-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1540 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021226/591b03ed/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 26 17:30:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Documation - Apple I/O In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212261715380.5944@panix2.panix.com> from "John Lawson" at Dec 26, 2 05:24:28 pm Message-ID: <m18RhPn-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2831 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021226/f7d2d38b/attachment.ksh From rschaefe at gcfn.org Thu Dec 26 18:02:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Thrift Find: New Mattel Aquarius References: <20021226193045.15690.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000801c2ad3b$b3080c40$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" <erd_6502@yahoo.com> To: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 2:30 PM Subject: Re: Thrift Find: New Mattel Aquarius > > I've been trying to get around to offering it for trade. If you > > want it, stop by and pick it up. > > I might do that. When is good? Juat about any time between 7:30 and 9:00 PM. I could leave it out on the porch if you want to stop by later. > -ethan Bob From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Dec 26 19:25:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Other (non-HP) DOS clamshells? In-Reply-To: <20021226123106.515.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E0B57FA.7552.E9C61A@localhost> Well I might concede it's not quite comparable to the HP 95 altho it was quite similar, there is the Sharp PC3xxx. An remarkable little machine which has spawned a somewhat active mail-list and there are many enthusiasts still developing refinements for it. It was developed by the same people that designed the Portfolio, DIP, and several websites detail it's capabilities when pushed to the max. Lawrence On 26 Dec 2002, , evan wrote: > Hi all... besides than the HP-95/100/200, what are > other DOS clamshells of the era? I'm aware of the > Atari Portfolio and the Poqet device, but there are > several more, methinks... > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com May you get halfway to heaven, before Satan learns you're dead or 3/4s of the way to the bar before your wife finds you've gone out. lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Dec 26 22:00:00 2002 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Looking for docs on Spectron D502 data analyzer Message-ID: <20021226200117.R73038-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Subject pretty much says it all. Anyone got docs on this critter? Thanks; -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Dec 26 23:54:00 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Other (non-HP) DOS clamshells? In-Reply-To: evan's message of "Thu, 26 Dec 2002 04:31:06 -0800 (PST)" References: <20021226123106.515.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200212270528.gBR5SHWd085064@daemonweed.reanimators.org> evan <evan947@yahoo.com> wrote: > Hi all... besides than the HP-95/100/200, what are > other DOS clamshells of the era? I'm aware of the > Atari Portfolio and the Poqet device, but there are > several more, methinks... Olivetti Quaderno? I haven't thought of those in years, but my recollection is that it's a small XT clone with a voice recorder feature. More popular in Europe than in the US, too. -Frank McConnell From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Dec 27 02:49:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Testing logic chips (was: Re: Anyone have a Western Digital ...) In-Reply-To: <20021226193435.54249.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021226193435.54249.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212270250590.678-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> On Thu, 26 Dec 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Tothwolf <tothwolf@concentric.net> wrote: > > > Nice! This is something I've been researching within the last few > > days. I have a pile of 4000 series CMOS logic chips I need to test > > before reinstalling in some ancient boards, but I'm at a loss as to > > the most efficient and simplest way to test them. Does anyone have any > > suggestions? I think most of the chips are 4011, 4027, 4028, 4042, > > 4049, etc. > > I have a hand-held chip tester that I got a while ago (+10 years). We > paid back its cost on the first use at work: an IBM 5150 PC that was > used as a terminal for a Northwest Instruments analyzer began beefing > about some problem or another. We gave the chip tester to an intern and > told them to start testing RAMs. Found the offending 4164 and pulled > one from the parts bins above his head. Put a $20,000 anaylzer back to > work. > > In the absence of a chip tester, I have no good solution except to build > one. Given the level of effort involved, unless you are doing it for > fun, it's cheaper to go out and buy one. I'm not sure about cheaper, but it would certainly be easier to buy one. I found plans for a computer interfaced design by Silvio Klaic at [http://student.math.hr/~sklaic/electronics/ictester/] (which currently seems to be down), but I'm not 100% certain it would work for all the CMOS logic chips I need to test. The software part of the tester looks like it can handle the chips, but I haven't had much time to study the schematic of the hardware. Perhaps it's time I buy a new breadboard (or repair the old one) and wire up the circuit ;) -Toth From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Dec 27 05:36:00 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Atari PCH204 In-Reply-To: <000f01c2abcd$6f713250$0b01010a@cvendel> Message-ID: <3E0C49EA.22601.315AA4@localhost> > I'm working on a more indepth look at the PC-1's sometime in the future, > there's so many items from Atari I try to do a little bit on each area > across the board and I would certainly like to put a lot more up about the > PC-1's, they were very elegantly designed machines, their only flaw is that > they were only 8088's and not something a tad bit more powerful, but they > run the original version of GEM perfectly :-) I liked the PC-1, due it's compactness ... it is also a prime example how Atari or better Tramiel was still staring at Commodore. Down to the name a real counterpart to the Commodore PC-1 ... :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From info at mewesbus.de Fri Dec 27 07:58:00 2002 From: info at mewesbus.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?G=FCnter_Mewes?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Z8000-Fan Message-ID: <000801c2adae$a87eeb40$cf64e195@lifetec> Hi Mr. Johnston, today I was looking for some Z8000 Fans, to talk about experieces ... Are you interested ? Please, be so kind and send a mail. Guenter Mewes (www.guentermewes.de) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021227/266f7d63/attachment.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 27 08:12:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Other (non-HP) DOS clamshells? In-Reply-To: <200212270528.gBR5SHWd085064@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <evan's message of "Thu, 26 Dec 2002 04:31:06 -0800 (PST)"> <20021226123106.515.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021227091602.50b7a7d8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> >> Hi all... besides than the HP-95/100/200, what are >> other DOS clamshells of the era? I'm aware of the >> Atari Portfolio and the Poqet device, but there are >> several more, methinks... Hmm. The Visual BASIC 100. MS-DOS, two 5 1/4" flopppy drives and wide but short folding LCD screen. It looks about like a HP Portable but is much bigger. The most memorable thing about them to me was the pull-out handle. It was coated with a rubbery substance that got very gooy and sticky with age. You couldn't touch it without the stuff sticking to you and it was next to impossible to wash off. Joe> From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Dec 27 09:06:00 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Other (non-HP) DOS clamshells? Message-ID: <EFCC02DCB43BE04989267F883F7237870B4479@denmails1.jdedwards.com> Prolinear made a model with an 80386 processor. -----Original Message----- From: evan [mailto:evan947@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 6:31 AM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Other (non-HP) DOS clamshells? Hi all... besides than the HP-95/100/200, what are other DOS clamshells of the era? I'm aware of the Atari Portfolio and the Poqet device, but there are several more, methinks... From kth at srv.net Fri Dec 27 09:25:00 2002 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: DEC LA36 Decwriter II References: <F201GdKO8FNpyLAPDVX0000dea8@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3E0C75B4.60308@srv.net> Fred Flintstone wrote: > I guess I should have been more specific :-) > > I have what appears to be an OEM LA36. The label on the front says > 'Data Terminal Mart'. On the back, there is a label from Digital > which gives the model number as LA36DP. The processor board inside is > made by Datasouth Computer Corporation (P/N 512000-2). There is an 8 > DIPswitch located on the board. I do not have any documentation for > this particular model and thus, I do not know what the settings should > be on the switches. I do have user docs for an older LA36, but it > does not cover my particular model. Oooh, a Datasouth board. I'm afraid that the schematics/documentation of an LA36 are probably not going to be very useful to you. You probably also have a heat sink bolted to the the printhead. Original LA36's do not have a heatsink. What you have is an LA36 plus an aftermarket modification to speed it up. I think Datasouth started business with this modification, then went on to build entire printers themselves. The original LA36 would max out at 30 characters/second printing (with a good headwind). The Datasouth board (+extra bits) replaced the original logic boards in the back of the printer, and sped up the printing to around 120 characters/second(?) and bi-directional printing, but needed a heatsink on the poor printhead so that it wouldn't melt down. It gave the LA36 speed closer to that of the LA120. You need documentation on the Datasouth board. Datasouth, the company, is still apparently in existance (http://www.datasouth.com), and you might try contacting them. > > I am looking for information on the LA36, specifically the 8 dip > switches. > > What I am trying to accomplish is to get the terminal console working > on my PDP-11/10 (really it is a PDP-11/05) prior to getting my > PDP-11/20 running. > > When I hook everything up, the SCL on the PDP-11/10 has the expected > voltages. When I connect it up to the LA36, the voltages are driven > to near 0v. I am not sure I have things hooked up correctly, or if > there is a problem with the SCL. I used the docs I had for the older > LA36 to connect my LA36DP. The connections I made were from T+ on the > PDP-11 to R+ on the LA36 and T- on the PDP-11 to R- on the LA36. When > the LA36 is not connected, there is no voltage on the Transmit/Receive > which I am presuming means the LA36 is in passive mode. Voltages are > present on the Transmit/Receive on the PDP-11 side, and I presume the > SCL is in active mode. > > Unfortunately, I am not sure if this is correct (I am from the RS232 > generation, the 20mA is slightly confusing). > > Any ideas? > > > > From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Dec 27 09:29:00 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Otrona Attache Message-ID: <EFCC02DCB43BE04989267F883F7237870B447A@denmails1.jdedwards.com> Steve, Last question first: his eBay seller's ID is "grizzylee" and one of his auctions is at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2052204164. As to your first question, depends on how much you like the Otrona, and how much of a collector you are. I still have my 8:16. If you try to sell your Attache, don't expect more than $50-$75 on eBay. I have seen some go for more, but there does not seem to be a "hot" market for them. As to the video, I have heard that the video chip (a 5027, IIRC) often went bad, but I do not know if that would cause the symptom you see (Tony?). It might just need an adjustment to the Vertical Sync pot. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Steve Smith [mailto:ssmith12@rochester.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 8:17 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Otrona Attache Hi J.C., I have a functioning Attache (it has some video probs; like vertical roll) which I've owned since new. Should I fix it or sell it? If so, how (either/both). And who is this Donald that has all Otrona's inventory? If you don't mind my asking.... --Steve Smith From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 27 10:31:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Other (non-HP) DOS clamshells? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021227091602.50b7a7d8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212270831490.28177-100000@siconic.com> On Fri, 27 Dec 2002, Joe wrote: > Hmm. The Visual BASIC 100. MS-DOS, two 5 1/4" flopppy drives and wide > but short folding LCD screen. It looks about like a HP Portable but is > much bigger. The most memorable thing about them to me was the pull-out > handle. It was coated with a rubbery substance that got very gooy and > sticky with age. You couldn't touch it without the stuff sticking to you > and it was next to impossible to wash off. Isn't that called The Commuter? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Fri Dec 27 10:41:00 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Searching for Labtech software manuals ($$$) Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212270839370.28182-100000@siconic.com> I am seeking out the manuals for the following software by Labtech: Acquire Notebook Realtime Access Also looking for the manual for Strawberry Tree Computers "Laboratory & Industrial Data Acquisition & Control". If you've got them, please e-mail me directly at <sellam@vintage.org>. There is a bounty on each one. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Fri Dec 27 10:50:01 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Need documentation for Chips & Technologies Super386 Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212270850270.28182-100000@siconic.com> I need any documentation for the Chips & Technologies Super386 chipset. $$$ -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Fri Dec 27 11:12:00 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Additional information for Labtech manuals Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212270910320.28182-100000@siconic.com> The date of publication for the manuals I am seeking should be circa 1986-1987. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 27 12:41:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Otrona Attache In-Reply-To: <EFCC02DCB43BE04989267F883F7237870B447A@denmails1.jdedwards.com> from "Feldman, Robert" at Dec 27, 2 08:32:09 am Message-ID: <m18RzOK-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1563 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021227/79f4abb9/attachment.ksh From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Fri Dec 27 12:42:59 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 anyone with some working experience out there? References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0212262013060.15545-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE> Message-ID: <3E0C9F18.2090906@aurora.regenstrief.org> Johnny Billquist wrote: >>I could never see any sign of special >>activity, neither from the RA90 drive nor the UDA-50. >> > > It would flicker very briefly, but I suppose you should see some > action. Anyhow, the A or B button should light up if things are working. > I assume you have the cabling correct. You know. The total number of > cables between the UDA-50 and the disk must be an odd number. DANG! How could I make such stupid mistake! It's not like I had overcome this problem before ... so, thanks for reminging me. Now, I need some screwing off bulkheads (of which I don't have enough) to fix that but until then ... >>The UDA-50 >>shows the cycling pattern on the LEDs, not unlike the KDA-50 in >>my VAX6000s. > That's the normal idle pattern. Shows that the UDA-50 is working > correctly. The manual that I have mumbles something about the speed of the cycle pattern to be significant an might signal an error. Also, the question still is whether the cycling pattern says that the UNIBUS is connected properly ... I guess it doesn't have to be ever addressed by the CPU in order to be showing this pattern. So, my address jumpers could still be wrong or the DW780 could still be screwed up a bit, right? My main concern is that I think I should expect the UDA-50 to show a different blinking pattern when it is in fact addressed and is trying to access disks on the SDI cables. The cables being wrong of disconnected does not keep the KDA-50 from blinking differently. Since my UDA-50 always keeps cycling, it still looks as if I have a problem upstream. I guess I will try network booting the machine next. I did that with the uVAX II successfully, in the case of the 11/780 I will just have to load the boot program through kermit over the console. I guess the proper way would be to generate DEPOSIT commands for the boot loader (that otherwise would have been sent through MOP) and send them through Kermit, right? But darn, I don't have a DEUNA or DELUA ethernet but some other thing that may not even be supported ... actually, I may have a DEUNA hardware, but I don't know whether that is working... regards, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From gil at vauxelectronics.com Fri Dec 27 14:59:01 2002 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Fw: HP stuff FS Message-ID: <3.0.32.20021227140515.00929760@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Just passing this on. gil >From: "John" <john_a_s@hotmail.com> >To: <gil@vauxelectronics.com> >Subject: Fw: HP stuff FS >Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 23:05:51 -0000 > >Hi Gil, > >Could you pass this on to ClassicCmp cctalk list please? I think the guy >below has a 1970s HP-1000E for sale, his web page is at: > >http://www.w9fz.com/hp9000/index.html > >The 82901M on the disks page has gone, below is the edited version. > >Wishing you a Happy Christmas! >John > >----- Original Message ----- >From: <w9fz@ix.netcom.com> >To: "John" <john_a_s@hotmail.com> >Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 3:16 AM >Subject: Re: HP availability > > >> Hi there: >> >> I think the picture you're talking about was an HP1000E . I actually have >> another one of those in stock ready to go. A guy, who says he is not >really a >> collector, but rather a guy who used to use those in his work, wanted that >> one. Apparently he had some software punch tapes and a reader and he read >> some code into it. There were two HP1000E's. THe one in the picture is >the >> shorter one. THe one I have now available is the taller one. >> >> Bruce Richardson >> W9FZ > > ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From cb at mythtech.net Fri Dec 27 16:23:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Amplifier manuals Message-ID: <S.0000102253@mythtech.net> This isn't exactly on topic as it isn't computer stuff, but it is older than 10 years, and I know there are some audio people on this list. I have the following amplifier manuals or data sheets available: -Shure Data Sheet for models M68, M68FC, M68FCE -Realistic MPA-35 owners manual -Realistic MPA-100 owners manual -Bogen Installation and Operation Manual for models CHS-35A, CHS-60A, CHS-100A -Shure Data Sheet/Manual for models AMS4000, AMS8000 -TOA manual for models A-903, A-906, A-912 -EDCOR data sheet for model MA-35 (two of these) If anyone wants them, just give me an address to mail them to and a list of the ones you want. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net> From bqt at update.uu.se Fri Dec 27 17:25:01 2002 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 anyone with some working experience out there? In-Reply-To: <3E0C9F18.2090906@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0212280023580.5170-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE> On Fri, 27 Dec 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Johnny Billquist wrote: > > > It would flicker very briefly, but I suppose you should see some > > action. Anyhow, the A or B button should light up if things are working. > > I assume you have the cabling correct. You know. The total number of > > cables between the UDA-50 and the disk must be an odd number. > > > DANG! How could I make such stupid mistake! It's not like I had > overcome this problem before ... so, thanks for reminging me. No problemo. :-) > >>The UDA-50 > >>shows the cycling pattern on the LEDs, not unlike the KDA-50 in > >>my VAX6000s. > > > That's the normal idle pattern. Shows that the UDA-50 is working > > correctly. > > The manual that I have mumbles something about the speed of the > cycle pattern to be significant an might signal an error. Hum. My manual don't mention anything about speed. Assume it's working fine for now. > Also, > the question still is whether the cycling pattern says that the > UNIBUS is connected properly ... I don't think it does. It's just showing that the UDA-50 itself is working. The outside world is not something it cares about. :-) > I guess it doesn't have to be > ever addressed by the CPU in order to be showing this pattern. Correct. > So, my address jumpers could still be wrong or the DW780 could still > be screwed up a bit, right? Yup. > My main concern is that I think I should expect the UDA-50 to > show a different blinking pattern when it is in fact addressed and > is trying to access disks on the SDI cables. It should. > The cables being > wrong of disconnected does not keep the KDA-50 from blinking > differently. Since my UDA-50 always keeps cycling, it still looks > as if I have a problem upstream. Sounds like a correct diagnose. Still, might not show anything if no disks are connected. I'm not sure about that situation. > I guess I will try network booting the machine next. I did that > with the uVAX II successfully, in the case of the 11/780 I will > just have to load the boot program through kermit over the console. That's one way. Another is if you happen to have a KDA50. Then you could just dump NetBSD on a disk, and then boot it on the 11/780. NetBSD can boot with VMB nowadays, and I'm certain you have VMB on your RX01. > I guess the proper way would be to generate DEPOSIT commands for > the boot loader (that otherwise would have been sent through MOP) > and send them through Kermit, right? But darn, I don't have a > DEUNA or DELUA ethernet but some other thing that may not even be > supported ... actually, I may have a DEUNA hardware, but I don't > know whether that is working... If that other hardware don't behave like a DEUNA, you're in trouble, yes... Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From Rick at jelcoventures.com Fri Dec 27 18:17:00 2002 From: Rick at jelcoventures.com (Rick Crandall) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Reward for SWTPC PR-40 printer Message-ID: <D35254BB6230D446A593B41E0392E7EE1A8A63@SERVER01.jelcoventures.net> I am looking for this pretty rare printer - a SWTPC PR-40. Am offering a $200 reward for information leading to a purchase. Rick Crandall rick@jelcoventures.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021227/c120e113/attachment.html From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Dec 27 18:17:40 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Atari PCH204 In-Reply-To: <3E0C49EA.22601.315AA4@localhost> Message-ID: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEKEELCGAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Hans Franke > Sent: 27 December 2002 11:39 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Atari PCH204 > > I liked the PC-1, due it's compactness ... it is also a > prime example how Atari or better Tramiel was still staring > at Commodore. Down to the name a real counterpart to the > Commodore PC-1 ... Right down to them actually LOOKING like each other :) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From kth at srv.net Fri Dec 27 18:18:09 2002 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 anyone with some working experience out there? References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0212280023580.5170-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE> Message-ID: <3E0CF1DF.6050602@srv.net> Johnny Billquist wrote: >On Fri, 27 Dec 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote: > > > >>Johnny Billquist wrote: >> >> >> >>>It would flicker very briefly, but I suppose you should see some >>>action. Anyhow, the A or B button should light up if things are working. >>>I assume you have the cabling correct. You know. The total number of >>>cables between the UDA-50 and the disk must be an odd number. >>> >>> >>DANG! How could I make such stupid mistake! It's not like I had >>overcome this problem before ... so, thanks for reminging me. >> >> > >No problemo. :-) > > > >>>>The UDA-50 >>>>shows the cycling pattern on the LEDs, not unlike the KDA-50 in >>>>my VAX6000s. >>>> >>>> >>>That's the normal idle pattern. Shows that the UDA-50 is working >>>correctly. >>> >>> >>The manual that I have mumbles something about the speed of the >>cycle pattern to be significant an might signal an error. >> >> > >Hum. My manual don't mention anything about speed. Assume it's working >fine for now. > > > >>Also, >>the question still is whether the cycling pattern says that the >>UNIBUS is connected properly ... >> >> > >I don't think it does. It's just showing that the UDA-50 itself is >working. The outside world is not something it cares about. :-) > > > >>I guess it doesn't have to be >>ever addressed by the CPU in order to be showing this pattern. >> >> > >Correct. > > > >>So, my address jumpers could still be wrong or the DW780 could still >>be screwed up a bit, right? >> >> > >Yup. > > > >>My main concern is that I think I should expect the UDA-50 to >>show a different blinking pattern when it is in fact addressed and >>is trying to access disks on the SDI cables. >> >> > >It should. > > > >>The cables being >>wrong of disconnected does not keep the KDA-50 from blinking >>differently. Since my UDA-50 always keeps cycling, it still looks >>as if I have a problem upstream. >> >> > >Sounds like a correct diagnose. Still, might not show anything if no disks >are connected. I'm not sure about that situation. > > > >>I guess I will try network booting the machine next. I did that >>with the uVAX II successfully, in the case of the 11/780 I will >>just have to load the boot program through kermit over the console. >> >> > >That's one way. Another is if you happen to have a KDA50. Then you could >just dump NetBSD on a disk, and then boot it on the 11/780. NetBSD can >boot with VMB nowadays, and I'm certain you have VMB on your RX01. > > I have a KDA50, but no cabling for it. Would be willing to swap for anything intresting... > > >>I guess the proper way would be to generate DEPOSIT commands for >>the boot loader (that otherwise would have been sent through MOP) >>and send them through Kermit, right? But darn, I don't have a >>DEUNA or DELUA ethernet but some other thing that may not even be >>supported ... actually, I may have a DEUNA hardware, but I don't >>know whether that is working... >> >> > >If that other hardware don't behave like a DEUNA, you're in trouble, >yes... > > > > From ram_suganthi at hotmail.com Fri Dec 27 18:18:37 2002 From: ram_suganthi at hotmail.com (Ram & Suganthi M.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:51 2005 Subject: Free MCA Card (possibly a Streaming Tape Adapter) Message-ID: <F186Fsxf4yp8ARf3sll00000196@hotmail.com> Hi, I am sending this out again as I got no response. If I dont get one this time, out it goes. I have a MCA card that might be a streaming tape adapter (dont know as I dont have a MCA system). It is free for the taking (shipping charges do apply, unless you are willing to pick it up at 11553 Long Island)... Cheers, Ram _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_addphotos_3mf From alderney at telusplanet.net Fri Dec 27 18:19:06 2002 From: alderney at telusplanet.net (Don and Jose Woods) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:52 2005 Subject: LA36 various responses Message-ID: <20021227231556.NKGG1598.priv-edtnes62.telusplanet.net@alderney> One person interested in 20 ma LA36's, and I think an answer in error from Don Maslin. Thanks for the information on the 20 ma question Kevin and Larry I'm not sure if these units are 20ma loop - but from their history I'd expect them all to be the same. The plug on the connecting cable is a DB25 female, and the wires go to pins 1 through 7. Models are; Datacom 400 (the one which may work), 2 Datacom 1200's, and 1 Decwriter III. Does the pin connection help with the 20ma question, or is there a simple test I can make on the lines? I'm not sure from Kevin Hardy's letter if one could just change the wiring - it sounds like it, but these may be OK already. I tried to see if I could tell what the output driver is (as per Larry's comment), but the board isn't very easy to see. There appears to be an output IC labelled 7550 - is this a valid TTL number? Don Woods Message: 3 >From: Barry Moyer <barry.moyer@pason.com> >To: "'cctalk@classiccmp.org'" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> >Subject: DEC LA36 >Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 09:08:19 -0700 >Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > >Don, > >I am in Calgary and I have a newer LA36, but I am looking for another older >LA36 with a 20mA loop connection. You can contact me at 'iamvirtual at >hotmail dot com' (replace at with @, dot with .) > >Thanks > >Barry > ... > >Message: 9 >From: "Fred Flintstone" <iamvirtual@hotmail.com> >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: DEC LA36 units >Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 10:46:02 -0900 >Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > >Don, > >I am currently looking for an older LA36 which has a 20mA connection (I need >it to connect to my ancient PDP-11s). Do you know the model numbers for the >LA36? > >Thanks. > >--Barry > >. > >Message: 15 >Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 15:59:09 -0800 (PST) >From: Don Maslin <donm@cts.com> >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: DEC LA36 units >Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > >No Barry, sorry, but Dec printers are outside my area of knowledge. > > - don Message: 4 Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 09:39:19 -0700 From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: DEC LA36 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Barry Moyer wrote: >Don, > >I am in Calgary and I have a newer LA36, but I am looking for another older >LA36 with a 20mA loop connection. You can contact me at 'iamvirtual at >hotmail dot com' (replace at with @, dot with .) > > I believe that the 20ma current loop was available for all the LA36's. It was just a different cabling option, bit a 'new' or 'old' version thing. You could buy the 20ma current loop with your LA36, or later as an option to change an existing one from RS232 to 20ma. Message: 13 From: "Truthan,Larry" <truthanl@oclc.org> To: "'iamvirtual@hotmail.com'" <iamvirtual@hotmail.com> Cc: "'cctalk@classiccmp.org'" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Subject: DEC LA36 Decwriter II Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 16:42:02 -0500 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org I have the engineering prints in the LA 36 Decwriter II LA36 (MPC5) sheet 5 of 8 shows 20 ma RECIEVE on J3 pin 7(+) and Pin 3(-) bridged by a 3.3 volt zener D4 746A feeding a 4N26 (E43) opto-isolator which drives a MXAA05 (Q4) driver transitor which has its collector on J4 pin 2 "S.I." (serial in) 20 ma TRANSMIT is on J3 Pin 5(+) and Pin 2(-). These pins are bridged by a 1N4004 diode D6. This diode also is parallel to the emitter/collector of Q2, an A05. which is driven by another 4N26 opto-isolator (E47). S.O. is J4 pin 4. It is driven by a 7404 inverter (E62)-(Input is 7404 pin 3 connected to the diode cathode of the opto-isolator, output is 7404 pin 4, which connects directly to J4 pin 4, "S.O." serial out) Sincerely Larry Truthan From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Dec 27 18:36:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:52 2005 Subject: Reply Trim Rant; was Re: VAX 11/780 In-Reply-To: <3E0CF1DF.6050602@srv.net> References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0212280023580.5170-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE> <3E0CF1DF.6050602@srv.net> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212271929190.15972@panix3.panix.com> On Fri, 27 Dec 2002, Kevin Handy wrote: > Johnny Billquist wrote: > > >On Fri, 27 Dec 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote: > > > > > > > >>Johnny Billquist wrote: <New_Year's_Rant> Is there any reason you can possibly come up with why I should have to wade thru 126 lines of text I've already read three times, just to get to your *two line* contribution to the thread???? Some of us are on slow dial-ups, using ASCII-only shell accounts,(me) and others (in Europe and elsewhere), pay for their connectivity by the byte... But I guess it's just too hard for some on this list to have the consideration to TRIM YOUR REPLIES.... HuffPuff mutter grumble grrfzzzmmmnffzzzz ! </rant> Okay I feel better now. Sorta... Cheers John (Not quite as Grumpy as Fred, but getting closer all the time) From fire at dls.net Fri Dec 27 20:44:00 2002 From: fire at dls.net (Bradley Slavik) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:52 2005 Subject: DEC 3000 300X/300 Message-ID: <BA326C88.85B7%fire@dls.net> I finally am almost within reach of getting my DEC 3000 300 working. A few years ago I foolishly purchased it without memory, thinking it would be a simple matter to inexpensively pick up some memory later. How wrong I was. Now I have purchased a DEC 3000 300X with 160MB memory with the intention of lending 32MB to the 300. Now I look at the back of the machine and my main question is what cable do I need to hook up my VT220, or my VT420, or what model monitor with keyboard and mouse is this thing supposed to work with? In a typical DEC fashion, in the manual they do not mention model numbers of monitor to go with it, but there are rough instructions that I may be able to follow to get dumb terminal console working. I would ideally like to have real monitor on 300X, VT420 on 300, leaving my VT220 free for my MicroVax II. Oh yeah, I have a TK50 in MicroVax II currently. I also have TK70 with correct controller board that I would like to put in its place. Friend who I acquired MicroVax II from claimed that I needed different cable to go from TK70 controller card to TK70 drive than cable for TK50. It looks to me like both cables have 26 pins in two rows of thirteen. I suppose one of the cables might not be straight through but have a twist/transposition of pins. Will my current cable work? Do I need a new one? Once I get it working, anyone want the TK50 drive and controller card? Bradley Slavik From djg at drs-esg.com Fri Dec 27 21:14:01 2002 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:52 2005 Subject: Trying to make a connector for my Documation M200 card reader Message-ID: <200212280316.WAA30020@drs-esg.com> From: Sellam Ismail <foo@siconic.com> >So I guess I should open my reader up and find out which version it used >in order to determine how to wire up my connector to the 6522? > Probably best. On the parts page 12-31 the IC's with the multiple #'s are the ones that change between the versions (see the next page also). From jingber at ix.netcom.com Fri Dec 27 21:54:01 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 Message-ID: <1041047752.3242.2.camel@supermicro> Does anyone have a description of what the "felt pad" for the IBM 5161 looked like, and did this item come from IBM/with the unit? See this thread for reference: http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/1998-12/0378.html Thanks, Jeff From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Dec 28 02:01:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: DEC 11/03 on eBay Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212280301090.18108@panix1.panix.com> An interesting 11/03 system, has twin DSD 8" drives, and some kind of DSD data acquisition card (A/D D/A???) dunno can't see enough detail in the pics. Seller seems to be rather.... well, 'scattered'.... ;} http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2084606280&category=4193 Cheers John From foxvideo at wincom.net Sat Dec 28 06:00:01 2002 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: Intermittent power supply (OT) Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20021228065840.01d6fc40@mail.wincom.net> Hi, has anyone experienced a condition in a pc power supply that would intermittently put out a high enough voltage to zap the hard drive? Regards Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Dec 28 06:55:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: Intermittent power supply (OT) References: <5.2.0.9.0.20021228065840.01d6fc40@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <3E0DACD6.5133DC1F@ccp.com> "Charles E. Fox" wrote: > > Hi, has anyone experienced a condition in a pc power supply that would > intermittently put out a high enough voltage to zap the hard drive? > > Regards > > Charlie Fox Is it the +5 or the +12 lines? Sounds like you might be getting transients that are nailing things. If it is a standard AT or ATX power supply I'd change it out first (cheap and simple). Then maybe move onto an online UPS. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sat Dec 28 07:29:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: DEC 11/03 on eBay References: <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212280301090.18108@panix1.panix.com> Message-ID: <3E0DA77C.4077B0F1@compsys.to> >John Lawson wrote: > An interesting 11/03 system, has twin DSD 8" drives, and some kind of > DSD data acquisition card (A/D D/A???) dunno can't see enough detail in > the pics. > Seller seems to be rather.... well, 'scattered'.... ;} > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2084606280&category=4193 > Cheers > John Jerome Fine replies: Seller also seems to has used an out-of-focus set of shots to blur any damage. At the current price of $ US 9.99, that would seem to be about the limit as far as value is concerned. I would not have him power things on - too much risk. If you don't have a lot of hardware technical skills, I strongly recommend against this. Indeed, you should probably already be familiar with the equipment. It is VERY heavy and shipping could cost $ US 100. By the way, the DSD 8" drives are the 8" RX02 compatibles to the DEC RX02 dual drive - i.e. 8" DDSS floppy media - as opposed to IBM 8" floppy media which were SDSS that DEC called RX01 8" floppy media. These are NOT 8" hard drives. BUT, if you just want something to display that doesn't really need to function OR you want some of the boards just for spares, then at $ US 9.99, it is probably a good buy. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From mattis at mattisborgen.org Sat Dec 28 12:10:00 2002 From: mattis at mattisborgen.org (Mattis Lind) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: HP Integral? Message-ID: <NIEOLLHNGMECEMMBJNDIOEPCCBAA.mattis@mattisborgen.org> Hi! I just acquired an HP Integral on Ebay. Unfortunately there was no "Software Engineering ROM" in this one so it is quite limited in terms of what one can do with it. ( I guess it is quite limited anyway since is is almost 20 years old ) Is there any one out there that has a "Software Engineering ROM" to sell? Does any one have a binary image of the contents of the ROM chips? In that case it wouldn't be to hard to do a simple board one self. Other stuff for the HP Integral is intersting as well! Thanks, /Mattis From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Dec 28 12:26:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: DEC 11/03 on eBay In-Reply-To: <3E0DA77C.4077B0F1@compsys.to> References: <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212280301090.18108@panix1.panix.com> <3E0DA77C.4077B0F1@compsys.to> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212281327150.27802@panix3.panix.com> On Sat, 28 Dec 2002, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > Seller also seems to has used an out-of-focus set of shots to blur > any damage. Gee, Jerry, I dunno... the cat seemed pretty sharp to me.... ;} John From kth at srv.net Sat Dec 28 12:31:01 2002 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 anyone with some working experience out there? References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0212280023580.5170-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE> <5.1.1.6.0.20021227180521.02895e78@209.66.107.193> Message-ID: <3E0DF298.8070803@srv.net> Chuck McManis wrote: > At 05:35 PM 12/27/2002 -0700, Kevin Handy wrote: > [He quoted everything but only added : ] > > >> I have a KDA50, but no cabling for it. >> Would be willing to swap for anything intresting... > > > > Do you want cabling ? I probably have a cabinet kit for the KDA50 > around somewhere. I'd be willing to swap it for another parallel card. Don't have any parallel cards (but several DHV11's). Also, don't have anything to plug into a KDA50, even if I had the cables. Would you want it to complete your cabinet kit? Mostly intrested in stuff for Linux PC's (3Gb+ disks, interesting cards, etc.), and Alpha (VMS) stuff (Oxygen vx1?, scsi controller, etc.), but willing to be easy ;-) > > --Chuck > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 28 12:45:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: Intermittent power supply (OT) In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20021228065840.01d6fc40@mail.wincom.net> from "Charles E. Fox" at Dec 28, 2 07:02:47 am Message-ID: <m18SLtW-000IzSC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 979 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021228/84d43063/attachment.ksh From ipscone at msdsite.com Sat Dec 28 13:02:00 2002 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: Mac Plus and Signatures In-Reply-To: <m18O62c-000IzYC@p850ug1> References: <3.0.6.16.20021216103025.39ff6a98@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Dec 16, 2 10:30:25 am Message-ID: <3E0D849A.8756.683CA5@localhost> I'm curious. I've seen some Mac Plus that are being sold as "signed, including Steven Jobs" So, I looked inside my Macs and see that they too have signatures of about 30 employees, including Steve Jobs. However, these look like they are simply mass produced signatures that are part of all Macs. Were there some that were individually, personally signed? Were all Mac plus delivered with these mass produced signatures? Or were only some delivered with these mass produced signatures? If these mass produced signatures were only on some Macs, approximately how many were supposed to have these signatures? I tried finding info on this but couldn't find anything. Thanks From cb at mythtech.net Sat Dec 28 13:22:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: Mac Plus and Signatures Message-ID: <S.0000102498@mythtech.net> >Were there some that were individually, personally signed? >Were all Mac plus delivered with these mass produced signatures? >Or were only some delivered with these mass produced signatures? >If these mass produced signatures were only on some Macs, >approximately how many were supposed to have these signatures? All Mac Pluses have those signatures. In fact all Mac's starting from the first (128, but before it was called that), thru the SE have signatures. And, I believe all the IIs, and some of the IIx's, and maybe others. I'm not as positive at what point in the II line it stopped, and I know it stopped somewhere midline with a model, so there is at least one model that has sigs, but not in all of them. So people that sell their 128, 512, Plus, or SE with "signatures" are either ignorant, or trying to jack up the price hoping to catch other ignorant people. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net> From computermuseum at pandora.be Sat Dec 28 13:29:00 2002 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: Technical Reference manual Texas Instruments Model 855 printer In-Reply-To: <S.0000102498@mythtech.net> Message-ID: <NEBBIIKKPJIBINKJOILLMEJPCIAA.computermuseum@pandora.be> Hi, Is there anyone who is interested in above mentioned manual. I don't have the printer.. so I can't do anything with this. Want to trade for a little something I can use. Michel From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Dec 28 14:25:01 2002 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: Section 9? Message-ID: <20021228122237.A31158-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Ok, a tad cryptic. <G> I've found the .pdf version of the HP 1000/M/E/F Engineering Docs, but every copy I've been able to access is missing section 9 (still can't keep track of the Roman Numerals they mark the sections with) which covers the power supply. There seems something a tad 'twinky' with mine, tho I seem to recall at one point someone had directed me to a jumper/resistor that needed to be installed at the 'Battery Input' connector on the rear to wake something up, but of course now that I'm working on it I can't find anything... Help??? -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Dec 28 14:30:01 2002 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: the 'Garage, Garage Sale'... Message-ID: <20021228122907.Y31158-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Having (almost) survived the traditional end-of-the-year cleaning and general re-shuffling... I'm preparing some more things to place in the 'Garage, Garage Sale' and wanted to check something. Knowing that I'm hopeless in keeping track of such things... Has everyone who had purchased something from the Garage Sale so far received their item(s)? If not, please drop me a note and I'll try to get it out ASAP. (I'm such a space case) Thanks; -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Dec 28 14:53:01 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: DEC 3000 300X/300 In-Reply-To: <BA326C88.85B7%fire@dls.net> References: <BA326C88.85B7%fire@dls.net> Message-ID: <20021228200128.GA23494@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 08:46:01PM -0600, Bradley Slavik wrote: > I finally am almost within reach of getting my DEC 3000 300 working. A few > years ago I foolishly purchased it without memory, thinking it would be a > simple matter to inexpensively pick up some memory later. How wrong I was. Why? You need pairs of 8 MB or 32 MB FPM parity 72 pin SIMMs. Not that uncommon. > Now I have purchased a DEC 3000 300X with 160MB memory with the intention of > lending 32MB to the 300. Leave the momory where it is. Alphas eat memory in large chunks for breakfast. 32 MB is enough to get to the SRM prompt, but it is not enough for real use. 64 MB may be acceptable, 128 MB is OK, more is needed to have fun. > Now I look at the back of the machine and my main > question is what cable do I need to hook up my VT220, or my VT420, Any regular "null-modem" cable should do the job. > or what > model monitor with keyboard and mouse is this thing supposed to work with? You need a LK201 or LK401 keyboard and a VSxxx mouse. The same keyboard (and mouse) as used on the VT[234]xx terminals and the VAXstations. > In a typical DEC fashion, in the manual they do not mention model numbers of > monitor to go with it, The video timings for the on board Smart Frame Buffer are: 1024 x 786 @ 72 Hz for the 300L 1280 x 1024 @ 72 Hz for the 300, 300X, 300LX Any sync on green capable multisync monitor can be used. You just need a 3W3 video cable. > Oh yeah, I have a TK50 in MicroVax II currently. I also have TK70 with > correct controller board that I would like to put in its place. Friend who I > acquired MicroVax II from claimed that I needed different cable to go from > TK70 controller card to TK70 drive than cable for TK50. I have used the same cable for TK50 and TK70 at least in my PDP-11/73 and it worked. I don't think that there is any difference in the cable. BTW: You can use the TK50 drive on the TQK70 contoller but not the TK70 drive on the TQK50 contoller. -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From wonko at 4amlunch.net Sat Dec 28 15:19:01 2002 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: Noise levels (was VAX 11/780) In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212251931380.2887@panix1.panix.com> References: <200212252347.SAA21793@eola.ao.net> <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212251931380.2887@panix1.panix.com> Message-ID: <20021228212141.GA1076@MIKE> On Wed, Dec 25, 2002 at 07:51:36PM -0500, John Lawson wrote: > > Like I said, it bugs me to distraction with this thing roaring away 5 > feet behind me, and it's a decided relief when I shut 'er down and Peace > rules once again... ;} old hardware is certainly loud. my 11/70 can easily overpower the noise made by the half a dozen sparcs, half a dozen ciscos and two alphas. that's no small feat. ;0 > I *really do* want a "machine room" of some kind... even for my small > installation. My previous collection made even more noise, and *it* was > also in the damned room with me. Like I said: Someday...... i used to share a single room for office and datacenter. i will never ever do that again. the noise and heat was pure insanity. -brian -- "Homer, this is the worst thing you've ever done." "Oh Marge, you say that so often it's lost all meaning." From cpg at aladdin.de Sat Dec 28 15:22:00 2002 From: cpg at aladdin.de (Christian Groessler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: Z8000-Fan Message-ID: <87isxdn8hx.fsf@power.cnet.aladdin.de> On 12/27/2002 02:48:31 PM CET G?nter Mewes wrote: > >today I was looking for some Z8000 Fans, to talk about experieces ... >Are you interested ? Yes, I am. regards, chris From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sat Dec 28 16:34:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: DEC 11/03 on eBay References: <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212280301090.18108@panix1.panix.com> <3E0DA77C.4077B0F1@compsys.to> <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212281327150.27802@panix3.panix.com> Message-ID: <3E0E276E.C90FCF6F@compsys.to> >John Lawson wrote: > > On Sat, 28 Dec 2002, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > > Seller also seems to has used an out-of-focus set of shots to blur > > any damage. > Gee, Jerry, I dunno... the cat seemed pretty sharp to me.... ;) > John Jerome Fine replies: I don't normally reply to the banter, but in regard to the cat? A cat that looks almost identical "ADOPTED" my wife about 3 years ago. She is a stray and stays out almost all summer in Toronto when it is warm. In the winter, right now there is about 2" of snow on the ground (Toronto does NOT get the snow storms that Buffalo gets), so she only goes out for an hour or two each day - 15 minutes at a time. She hates being cold. Every time the door bell rings, she runs upstairs and hides under the bed - when she is already inside - obviously. As for her claws - they are VERY, VERY SHARP!! She needs them to climb the trees and the fence. And her teeth are just as sharp. YES!! I admit that I also love her very much. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From fm.arnold at gmx.net Sat Dec 28 17:36:42 2002 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: DEC LA36 Decwriter II Message-ID: <PM-CH.20021229003747.D84CF.1.1D@mail.gmx.net> Hi, >From: "Fred Flintstone" <iamvirtual@hotmail.com> >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: DEC LA36 Decwriter II >Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 13:43:54 -0900 >Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > >I guess I should have been more specific :-) > >I have what appears to be an OEM LA36. The label on the front says 'Data >Terminal Mart'. On the back, there is a label from Digital which gives the >model number as LA36DP. The processor board inside is made by Datasouth >Computer Corporation (P/N 512000-2). There is an 8 DIPswitch located on the >board. I do not have any documentation for this particular model and thus, >I do not know what the settings should be on the switches. I do have user >docs for an older LA36, but it does not cover my particular model. > >I am looking for information on the LA36, specifically the 8 dip switches. Ok, you seem to have a third party controller in your LA36. Because DEC build a real heavey-duty construction for the LA36, and let it print only with 30 cps. many people and some companies thought it could do much better. The few companies mentioned before put to the market several replacement- controllers, making a LA36+ (mpnc) with a much better performnce, sometimes 150 or so cps, loadable fonts and/or pixel-graphics ect. The many people bought those controllers and integrated them into their LA36'es and DEC-Fieldservice didn't got tired of telling anyone that a terminal upgraded that way would certainley disintegrate into its atoms "whitin months"... (I've never seen this happen). These 3rd-party controllers would completeley replace the original DEC-made logic board that was attached to the innerside of the back-door, and was about just as big as that door itself. (mpnc = my personal naming convention) So the DEC printset won't help you much with this, you should find a manual of Datasouth, to get details on the dip-switches. (most likeley they set the baudrate, and the switch in the keyboard has maybe got some other function. > >What I am trying to accomplish is to get the terminal console working on my >PDP-11/10 (really it is a PDP-11/05) prior to getting my PDP-11/20 running. > That should be possible, 11/10+05 have only 20mA cuircuits. The 11/05 computer is always the active party (=supplying current to the loop) on both Tx and Rx. The baud-rate is made by a rather unstable pair of one-shot monostables. Use a osscilloscope to set the time of this to either 26 or 35,5 microseconds. You need 26 us for the selection of 150 (tap5) - 2400 (tap1) baud, or 35,5 us for 110 baud on tap5 of the swich. > >When I hook everything up, the SCL on the PDP-11/10 has the expected >voltages. When I connect it up to the LA36, the voltages are driven to near >0v. I think, thats normal, afterall when the terminal is idle, there will be no current flow. Put your multimeter into mA-mode, and put it in series into the loop. Use preferably a cheap passive arrow-meter, the cheaper it is, the better the measurement. Alternativeley, you can also put a led somewhere in the loop. create data-output, and see what happens >I am not sure I have things hooked up correctly, or if there is a >problem with the SCL. I used the docs I had for the older LA36 to connect >my LA36DP. The connections I made were from T+ on the PDP-11 to R+ on the >LA36 and T- on the PDP-11 to R- on the LA36. Seems ok to me. (long time ago...) (Beware however that the naming-conventions for ths 20mA current-loop were not always consistent. There is no industry standard for this. I dont know how Datsouth has named its connection-terminals) If all this is ok, still nothing will happen if the baud-rate is unmatched between 11/05 (rotary switch and trim-potentiometer on M7260) and probably dip-switch and/or Keyboard-button or keyboard sequence on the LA36+ >When the LA36 is not >connected, there is no voltage on the Transmit/Receive which I am presuming >means the LA36 is in passive mode. Ack. >Voltages are present on the Transmit/Receive on the PDP-11 side, >and I presume the SCL is in active mode. Ack. Hope you can solve this. Frank From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Dec 28 17:38:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: DEC 3000 300X/300 In-Reply-To: <20021228200128.GA23494@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212281737460.22803-100000@george.home.org> On Sat, 28 Dec 2002, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 08:46:01PM -0600, Bradley Slavik wrote: > > or what > > model monitor with keyboard and mouse is this thing supposed to work with? > You need a LK201 or LK401 keyboard and a VSxxx mouse. The same keyboard > (and mouse) as used on the VT[234]xx terminals and the VAXstations. My 3000-300X takes a breakout cable -- a 15-pin D-sub to MMJ and 8-pin mini-din connection. Unless you have a real need of local graphics, I'd recommend a serial console. Doc From glenslick at hotmail.com Sat Dec 28 18:28:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: Section 9? (HP 1000 power supply) Message-ID: <F178Gfms8XgS06z0Fha0001538f@hotmail.com> I have some HP 1000 E/F docs including some power supply docs and at one point I did look at them to see if I could find information about that battery resister. I never found it. But someone else on the list told me that something like an 880ohm resister across the left most and right most terminals of the middle row of the battery connector input would trigger the power supply to power up all of the way. That did the trick for the HP 1000 / 2117F that I have. -Glen >I've found the .pdf version of the HP 1000/M/E/F Engineering Docs, but >every copy I've been able to access is missing section 9 (still can't keep >track of the Roman Numerals they mark the sections with) which covers the >power supply. > >There seems something a tad 'twinky' with mine, tho I seem to recall at >one point someone had directed me to a jumper/resistor that needed to be >installed at the 'Battery Input' connector on the rear to wake something >up, but of course now that I'm working on it I can't find anything... > >Help??? > >-jim _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_addphotos_3mf From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Dec 28 19:03:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: HP Integral? In-Reply-To: <NIEOLLHNGMECEMMBJNDIOEPCCBAA.mattis@mattisborgen.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021228200328.4477cde2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Congradulations on the purchase of the IPC. I have several of them and they're intersting machines. No but I'm not selling my SE ROM! If I ever get my EPROM programmer working (Anybody got a service manual for the Data I/O Unisite?), I may be able to dump the ROM. I also have the ROM for the Technical BASIC. Joe At 07:12 PM 12/28/02 +0100, you wrote: >Hi! > >I just acquired an HP Integral on Ebay. Unfortunately there was no "Software >Engineering ROM" in this one so it is quite limited in terms of what one can >do with it. ( I guess it is quite limited anyway since is is almost 20 years >old ) > >Is there any one out there that has a "Software Engineering ROM" to sell? > >Does any one have a binary image of the contents of the ROM chips? In that >case it wouldn't be to hard to do a simple board one self. > >Other stuff for the HP Integral is intersting as well! > >Thanks, > > >/Mattis > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Dec 28 19:04:13 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: Other (non-HP) DOS clamshells? In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212270831490.28177-100000@siconic.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20021227091602.50b7a7d8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021228200756.10c7ec64@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:32 AM 12/27/02 -0800, you wrote: >On Fri, 27 Dec 2002, Joe wrote: > >> Hmm. The Visual BASIC 100. MS-DOS, two 5 1/4" flopppy drives and wide >> but short folding LCD screen. It looks about like a HP Portable but is >> much bigger. The most memorable thing about them to me was the pull-out >> handle. It was coated with a rubbery substance that got very gooy and >> sticky with age. You couldn't touch it without the stuff sticking to you >> and it was next to impossible to wash off. > >Isn't that called The Commuter? Not that I know of. I've had two and seen a couple more and the only name that I saw on them was Basic 100. Joe From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Dec 28 19:44:01 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: AVAIL: Xerox 630 Memorywriter system disks Message-ID: <00ec01c2aedc$4164d300$7d00a8c0@george> Found a disk case at the thrift store that claims to contain the system software for a Xerox Memorywriter 630. Contains four 5.25" floppys marked as follows: white XEROX 630 Memorywriter label, blank, non-write-protected green XEROX 630 Memorywriter label, `Base System', `REORDER NO. 9R23303 VERSION 6.0 3Q85-B', write-protected blue XEROX 630 Memorywriter label, `Options', `REORDER NO. 9R23302 VERSION 4.0 1Q85-B', write-protected pink XEROX 630 Memorywriter label, `Forms', `REORDER NO. 9R23301 VERSION 3.0 1Q85-B', write-protected also 2 each spare pink & blue labels w/o the version, etc. info. No apparent physical damage, and the oxide showing in the window isn't funny-looking, but YMMV. Avaliable for shipping, but I'm currently in need of a set of four 2MB SIMMs (w/ IBM's SPD) to fit in a P70... hint hint... :) Bob From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Sat Dec 28 19:55:01 2002 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: Mac Plus and Signatures In-Reply-To: <S.0000102498@mythtech.net> References: <S.0000102498@mythtech.net> Message-ID: <20021229015709.B56C9159B6@www.fastmail.fm> The Apple Macintosh Portable also has signatures & is (I believe), the last Macintosh to have this nice little "feature". > All Mac Pluses have those signatures. > > In fact all Mac's starting from the first (128, but before it was called > that), thru the SE have signatures. And, I believe all the IIs, and some > of the IIx's, and maybe others. I'm not as positive at what point in the > II line it stopped, and I know it stopped somewhere midline with a model, > so there is at least one model that has sigs, but not in all of them. > > So people that sell their 128, 512, Plus, or SE with "signatures" are > either ignorant, or trying to jack up the price hoping to catch other > ignorant people. > > -chris > <http://www.mythtech.net> -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://fastmail.fm - Sent 0.000002 seconds ago From jwillis at arielusa.com Sat Dec 28 20:32:00 2002 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: DEC 11/03 on eBay Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB71D@deathstar.arielnet.com> I found paw prints, likely that of a ferile feline, outside my door, in the snow. -----Original Message----- From: Jerome H. Fine Sent: Sat 12/28/2002 3:36 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Subject: Re: DEC 11/03 on eBay >John Lawson wrote: > > On Sat, 28 Dec 2002, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > > Seller also seems to has used an out-of-focus set of shots to blur > > any damage. > Gee, Jerry, I dunno... the cat seemed pretty sharp to me.... ;) > John Jerome Fine replies: I don't normally reply to the banter, but in regard to the cat? A cat that looks almost identical "ADOPTED" my wife about 3 years ago. She is a stray and stays out almost all summer in Toronto when it is warm. In the winter, right now there is about 2" of snow on the ground (Toronto does NOT get the snow storms that Buffalo gets), so she only goes out for an hour or two each day - 15 minutes at a time. She hates being cold. Every time the door bell rings, she runs upstairs and hides under the bed - when she is already inside - obviously. As for her claws - they are VERY, VERY SHARP!! She needs them to climb the trees and the fence. And her teeth are just as sharp. YES!! I admit that I also love her very much. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 4736 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021228/3ac4d9bb/attachment.bin From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Dec 28 21:14:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: Mac Plus and Signatures In-Reply-To: <20021229015709.B56C9159B6@www.fastmail.fm> from David Vohs at "Dec 28, 2 07:57:09 pm" Message-ID: <200212290326.TAA25470@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > The Apple Macintosh Portable also has signatures & is (I believe), the > last Macintosh to have this nice little "feature". No, the IIci has them too (I have them in all three of my IIci Macs). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION! ------------------------------------ From red at bears.org Sat Dec 28 21:34:00 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: Mac Plus and Signatures In-Reply-To: <200212290326.TAA25470@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200212290326.TAA25470@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212282232390.9168-100000@instinct.bears.org> On Sat, 28 Dec 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > The Apple Macintosh Portable also has signatures & is (I believe), the > > last Macintosh to have this nice little "feature". > > No, the IIci has them too (I have them in all three of my IIci Macs). My IIci has no signatures (unless they're under the motherboard, where I haven't looked). I have seen an SE, even, with no signatures. So who knows? Actually... this sounds to me like a good topic for an informal survey. Got an older Mac with signatures? Without? Drop me a line with the model, and serial number if you have it. I would prefer though, that you take a second to verify accurate answers, and not leave it to a vague recollection. I'll summarize and post the results in a month. ok r. From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Sat Dec 28 21:39:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: Mac Plus and Signatures In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212282232390.9168-100000@instinct.bears.org> References: <200212290326.TAA25470@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212282232390.9168-100000@instinct.bears.org> Message-ID: <1041133264.18124.0.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> On Sat, 2002-12-28 at 22:37, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > > Got an older Mac with signatures? Without? Drop me a line with the model, > and serial number if you have it. I would prefer though, that you take a > second to verify accurate answers, and not leave it to a vague > recollection. > I have a MAC SE here. Where would the signature be located? -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From red at bears.org Sat Dec 28 21:47:01 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: Mac Plus and Signatures In-Reply-To: <1041133264.18124.0.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> References: <200212290326.TAA25470@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212282232390.9168-100000@instinct.bears.org> <1041133264.18124.0.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212282248120.9168-100000@instinct.bears.org> On Sat, 28 Dec 2002, Christopher McNabb wrote: > I have a MAC SE here. Where would the signature be located? On the inside of the back cover. They're molded into the plastic (de-bossed) and impossible to miss. ok r. From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 28 21:52:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212281939060.32715-100000@siconic.com> Ok, so far so good. I've got my wire harness all wired up (I basically used a good quality 40-pin DIP socket: the signal lines going into one side and the returns on the other). Nothing fancy required. The reader is putting out TTL signals so all is good. One oddity: before hooking anything up, I measured the voltage between the Apple's ground and the reader's ground. It would start off at a very low amount of microvolts, climb slowly, then all of a sudden it would shoot to +5 and then go back down to 0, where the cycle would repeat. The cycle period was about 5-6 seconds. What the heck is going on? I tested it out with the indicator signals, i.e. BSY (Busy), HCK (Hopper Check), MOCK (Motion Check), Error, etc., and the VIA is getting the signals. I wrote a little program to print out the status bits of the port that is accepting the signal and ran a batch of cards through and everything is as expected. The next step is to wire in the data signals and start to read data. The VIA gives me two 16-bit ports and an additional 4-bit port. The 4-bit port is special in that it can generate interrupts, so it will work quite well for error signals. The problem is I don't know how to access that port through the card I have. It's a custom 6522 card that I built for a class on microcomputer interfacing I took a lifetime ago and I can't find my class notes. Anyway, I'm in the process of figuring it out. Everything on the card is accessed through it's I/O addresses, being C080 + (slot * 16). So I have it in slot 4 which makes all it's I/O available at C0C0-C0CF. I've found the timer locations and some 16-bit registers. I also found by accident a timer that generates a RESET interrupt when it elapses--at least that's the theory I'm going under since the Apple reset itself after I was playing with the registers. I also believe I remember there being this feature on the 6522, but I haven't had a chance to read that part of the docs yet. One thing I'd like to investigate after I'm done with this is to see if there are enough inputs on the Apple itself to forgo the necessity of the 6522. The Game I/O port has 7 inputs, if you count the 4 joystick inputs that can be used as simple TTL inputs, plus the 3 push-button inputs. The other inputs would be the keyboard. It has 10 Y-inputs and 6 X-inputs, plus SHIFT and CONTROL. I'm wondering if there would be a way to hook up the data signals from the reader in a way that the character data from a card column triggers a key input, which can then be cross-referenced to determine what data was actually sent from the reader. Whether this will work depends on how punch card encoding works. From what I can tell so far, there will only ever be one of the 1-9 numbered rows punched per column, but there can be any combination of the 0, 11, and 12 rows. Is this correct? If so, then there should be enough combinations of inputs on the keyboard port to allow the data signals to go through that, and then the GAME I/O has just enough inputs to cover all the status signals (HOPPER CHECK, MOTION CHECK, ERROR, BUSY, INDEX MARK, and READY). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 28 21:55:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:53 2005 Subject: Mac Plus and Signatures In-Reply-To: <3E0D849A.8756.683CA5@localhost> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212281953470.32715-100000@siconic.com> On Sat, 28 Dec 2002, Mike Davis wrote: > Were there some that were individually, personally signed? Perhaps. Probably. I know all the employees on the Mac team got an individualized Mac with their name on a brushed aluminum plate affixed to the back side. > Were all Mac plus delivered with these mass produced signatures? Yes. > Or were only some delivered with these mass produced signatures? Maybe just the initial prototypes didn't have them. It was part of the molding plates. > If these mass produced signatures were only on some Macs, > approximately how many were supposed to have these signatures? All of the retail Macs and Mac Plusses had them. > I tried finding info on this but couldn't find anything. Odd. But anyway, some losers use this as a tactic to get unsuspecting bidders to bid up a Mac auction for no good reason. It borders on fraudulent. It's certainly sleazy. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Dec 28 22:06:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: the 'Garage, Garage Sale'... In-Reply-To: <20021228122907.Y31158-100000@agora.rdrop.com> References: <20021228122907.Y31158-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <20021229043439.GA24921@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe James Willing, from writings of Sat, Dec 28, 2002 at 12:32:52PM -0800: > Has everyone who had purchased something from the Garage Sale so far > received their item(s)? Yes. Many thanks! Now, all I need is a high-speed punch/reader! ...and to find some documentation for those Omnibus D/A and A/D boards and I can build a real PDP-8 based music synthesizer. :-) Speaking of garage sales, keep an eye out for mine. Very soon, I'm going to be looking to trade some computer equipment for some pro-audio and synth. gear. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Dec 28 23:25:00 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing In-Reply-To: Sellam Ismail's message of "Sat, 28 Dec 2002 19:53:14 -0800 (PST)" References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212281939060.32715-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <200212290519.gBT5JHvc033245@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Sellam Ismail <foo@siconic.com> wrote: > Whether this will work depends on how punch card encoding works. From > what I can tell so far, there will only ever be one of the 1-9 numbered > rows punched per column, but there can be any combination of the 0, 11, > and 12 rows. Is this correct? No. Symbol characters do not follow this rule, for example the period character '.' is encoded as punches in rows 12, 3, and 8. You should assume that any combination of rows may be punched. As a general rule, I think you'll find that for cards containing printable characters, no more than 3 punches are made in any column, but I don't think you can assume this for cards containing binary data. Doug Jones has a page that you should look at: <http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/cards/codes.html> ...but I can't get there right now, so you might need to look in Google's cache (long URL w/wrap): <http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:AeJS4EmmG4gC:www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/cards/codes.html> -Frank McConnell From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Dec 29 00:44:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: Mac Plus and Signatures In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212282232390.9168-100000@instinct.bears.org> from "r. 'bear' stricklin" at "Dec 28, 2 10:37:04 pm" Message-ID: <200212290656.WAA09790@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > The Apple Macintosh Portable also has signatures & is (I believe), the > > > last Macintosh to have this nice little "feature". > > > > No, the IIci has them too (I have them in all three of my IIci Macs). > > My IIci has no signatures (unless they're under the motherboard, where I > haven't looked). You have five silver dollars. Would you like to try for ten? (That's where they are on my units. :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I am the mother of all things, and all things must wear a sweater. --------- From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Dec 29 00:55:01 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: Section 9? (HP 1000 power supply) In-Reply-To: "Glen S"'s message of "Sat, 28 Dec 2002 16:19:43 -0800" References: <F178Gfms8XgS06z0Fha0001538f@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <200212290638.gBT6ceAl034447@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Glen S" <glenslick@hotmail.com> wrote: > But someone else on the list told me that something like an 880ohm resister > across the left most and right most terminals of the middle row of the > battery connector input would trigger the power supply to power up all of > the way. That did the trick for the HP 1000 / 2117F that I have. Here I sit looking at a little black square 3x3 plug, HP p/n 12991-60002 (stamped in white ink on one side of the hood). Inside the hood (visible through the hole in the back) there is only a 1/4W resistor connected to pins 4 and 6, which matches Glen's description. Bands are gray, red, brown, gold. Hmm, 820 ohms? Measures as 823 ohms on my cheap digital multimeter. -Frank McConnell From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Dec 29 01:21:01 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: Mac Plus and Signatures In-Reply-To: <1041133264.18124.0.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <81E2B743-1AFE-11D7-9ABC-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Saturday, December 28, 2002, at 10:41 PM, Christopher McNabb wrote: > > I have a MAC SE here. Where would the signature be located? > > They are on the inside of the back part of the case. Those little computers are a pain to open unless you have the long handle torx screwdriver though, because there are two screws in the handle part, in addition to the ones on the back. If you really want to open it, take a BIC disposable pen, and remove the ink and the black end piece, leaving an empty tube. Shove a hex shaped pencil in one end, and a T-15 driver bit in the other. This creates a crude, but very functional Mac opener. If you use a long enough pencil, it is pretty easy to use. Getting the case apart after the screws are out can be tricky too, and they sold a special tool to do it, but I have always just to be able to pull the halves apart. I really wouldn't recommend trying to open the computer unless you really want to though, it's pretty hard if you have never done it before. Your mileage may vary. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Dec 29 01:28:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: Section 9? (HP 1000 power supply) In-Reply-To: <200212290638.gBT6ceAl034447@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <F178Gfms8XgS06z0Fha0001538f@hotmail.com> <200212290638.gBT6ceAl034447@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212290217340.19843@panix1.panix.com> On Sun, 28 Dec 2002, Frank McConnell wrote: > Inside the hood (visible through the hole in the back) there is only a > 1/4W resistor connected to pins 4 and 6, which matches Glen's > description. Bands are gray, red, brown, gold. Hmm, 820 ohms? > Measures as 823 ohms on my cheap digital multimeter. no 4th color = 20% tolerance Silver = 10% Gold = 5% so 5% of 820 gives...lesse, pi to the 4th, carry the 9, umm.. 41! The resistor should have a value between 861 down to 779. Allowing for a bit of inaccuracy in your DVM... I'd say it was pretty well nailed on value. I=E/R: Not just a good idea - it's the Law! Cheers John From foo at siconic.com Sun Dec 29 01:32:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing In-Reply-To: <200212290519.gBT5JHvc033245@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212282332240.684-100000@siconic.com> On 28 Dec 2002, Frank McConnell wrote: > No. Symbol characters do not follow this rule, for example the period > character '.' is encoded as punches in rows 12, 3, and 8. > > You should assume that any combination of rows may be punched. As a > general rule, I think you'll find that for cards containing printable > characters, no more than 3 punches are made in any column, but I don't > think you can assume this for cards containing binary data. That's what I feared. I'll have to come up with an elegant way to decode the data. > Doug Jones has a page that you should look at: > <http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/cards/codes.html> > ...but I can't get there right now, so you might need to look in > Google's cache (long URL w/wrap): > <http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:AeJS4EmmG4gC:www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/cards/codes.html> Just what I was looking for! Thanks! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Dec 29 01:45:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212282332240.684-100000@siconic.com> References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212282332240.684-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212290239180.19843@panix1.panix.com> On Sat, 28 Dec 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > That's what I feared. I'll have to come up with an elegant way to decode > the data. I did this once with ASCII paper tape: I made a loop that was triggered by the 'ready' bit and then sequentially tested each bit in the frame of 7, setting corresponding bits in a register, a kind of stupid software UART. The problem is to time the loop to be done right as the data bits are latched, and before the next 'ready' trigger... but the 6522 has hardware timers, no? Once you've latched the card column data, you can store it in a super-frame that corresponds to the card itself - a 'column frame' and a 'unit record' frame. Then decode at your leisure. Of course I'm a hardware geek - it is more than likely a far more elegant scheme or algorithm will be offered by Those Who Know These Things. Cheers John From foxvideo at wincom.net Sun Dec 29 06:38:01 2002 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: Intermittent power supply (OT) In-Reply-To: <m18SLtW-000IzSC@p850ug1> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20021228065840.01d6fc40@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20021229073956.00b1b078@mail.wincom.net> At 06:41 PM 28/12/2002 +0000, you wrote: > > > > Hi, has anyone experienced a condition in a pc power supply that would > > intermittently put out a high enough voltage to zap the hard drive? > >Is it zapping anything else? > >If not, then I guess the +5V line is probably not the cause of the >problem, which in turn, means the PSU regulation loop is basically OK >(these supplies regulate the 5V line and hope all the others follow :-)). >An open-circuit in the sense circuit can make the output go sky-high, but >then all outputs tend to go high together. > >Defective output capacitors in SMPSUs can cause high-ish voltage spikes >on the outputs -- and generally only on one output. Perhaps the >capacitors for the +12V rail are failing. If you have an ESR meter you >could check them. The +12V rail is generally used by the hard drive and >RS232 drivers only in modern machines -- the floppy drive probably only >needs +5V. And the RS232 drives (if 'traditional') will stand serious >overvoltage on the supply lines. > >-tony Thanks Tony and Gary, I will check that. Regards Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From glenslick at hotmail.com Sun Dec 29 08:38:01 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: Section 9? (HP 1000 power supply) Message-ID: <F72n5U9T3TGJ2TUSzbA000007c6@hotmail.com> That is good information to know. I never had a plug to look at and check the resister inside. I think I was told 880 ohms, but that doesn't appear to be a standard resister value while 820 ohms is a standard value. Now that I know the real value to use I will build a real plug instead of just using some test clips and a trimpot for now. -Glen >Here I sit looking at a little black square 3x3 plug, HP p/n >12991-60002 (stamped in white ink on one side of the hood). > >Inside the hood (visible through the hole in the back) there is only a >1/4W resistor connected to pins 4 and 6, which matches Glen's >description. Bands are gray, red, brown, gold. Hmm, 820 ohms? >Measures as 823 ohms on my cheap digital multimeter. > >-Frank McConnell _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From bernd at kopriva.de Sun Dec 29 10:35:01 2002 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: Looking for Definicon DSI-32 board ... Message-ID: <18SgRI-28r61IC@fmrl02.sul.t-online.com> Hi, i've put this request on the list some times ago, but i was unsuccessful :-( ... ... maybe i've more luck now ?? Thanks Bernd Bernd Kopriva Tel: 07195 / 179452 Weilerstr. 24 E-Mail : bernd@kopriva.de 71397 Leutenbach From foo at siconic.com Sun Dec 29 11:08:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212290239180.19843@panix1.panix.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212290856001.2219-100000@siconic.com> On Sun, 29 Dec 2002, John Lawson wrote: > I did this once with ASCII paper tape: I made a loop that was triggered > by the 'ready' bit and then sequentially tested each bit in the frame of > 7, setting corresponding bits in a register, a kind of stupid software > UART. The problem is to time the loop to be done right as the data bits > are latched, and before the next 'ready' trigger... The way I'm thinking to do it is to first determine what grouping the character being read is in. It is either going to be in the 12, 11, or 0 "zone", or in the extended characters, the 8-3 zone. And then there are the extended IBM character sets (i.e. EBCDIC) where you have 8-x zones where x can be any number. What these represent is the 8 and x columns being punched together as a sort of "meta" code (kinda like a control key on a keyboard). Then, there will be 1-9 possible characters in each zone. After determining the zone, finding the correct character will be a matter of a simple table lookup. The table will contain the ASCII character code of that character, and then off that goes over the serial port to the receiving machine (or buffered in some manner). Doug Jone's article on punch card codes helped a lot. Doug Jones ROCKS! > but the 6522 has hardware timers, no? Jes. > Once you've latched the card column data, you can store it in a > super-frame that corresponds to the card itself - a 'column frame' and a > 'unit record' frame. I'll probably collect a whole card's worth of data before sending it out the serial port. I'll have to see if this will be possible given the speed of the reader (200 cards a minute). It should be possible to spit it out in between card feeds at 9600bps: 80 characters x 11 bits = 880 bits / 9600 bps = .092 seconds. Should be no problem. I'll see what the manual says about timing between card reads. ...or I might be able to spit out characters as they are read, queueing them in software if necessary. I think that's how I will go about it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cb at mythtech.net Sun Dec 29 11:52:01 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: Mac Plus and Signatures Message-ID: <S.0000102788@mythtech.net> >If you really want to open it, take a >BIC disposable pen, and remove the ink and the black end piece, leaving >an empty tube. Shove a hex shaped pencil in one end, and a T-15 driver >bit in the other. This creates a crude, but very functional Mac opener. >If you use a long enough pencil, it is pretty easy to use. Now if that ain't the coolest Mac Hack! >Getting the >case apart after the screws are out can be tricky too, and they sold a >special tool to do it, but I have always just to be able to pull the >halves apart. A small spring wood clamp with the rubber end caps removed works well. Stick the clamp end into the slot between the front and rear halves, and then squeeze the handle. As the clamp goes to open, it will pry the halves apart. Do this gently in a few places around the case, and the whole unit will easily pop apart. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net> From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Dec 29 12:24:01 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing In-Reply-To: Sellam Ismail's message of "Sun, 29 Dec 2002 09:08:44 -0800 (PST)" References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212290856001.2219-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <200212291823.gBTINbdL045712@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Sellam Ismail <foo@siconic.com> wrote: > 80 characters x 11 bits = 880 bits / 9600 bps = .092 seconds. Should be > no problem. I'll see what the manual says about timing between card > reads. Except that, if you want to read binary cards (trust me, you will -- those binary cards are contain boot and other code for these machines), you need to do all 12 rows. 80 columns x 12 rows = 960 bits / 8 bits per byte = 120 bytes per record. OK, now as for sending that over a serial line, remember that serial I/O adds framing information , so it becomes 10 bits per byte supposing 8 data bits, no parity, 1 start and 1 stop bit. So 1200 bits at 9600 bps = 0.125 second. You probably want to do at least a simple checksum of the data for each record and send that too (so the receiver can verify, send ack or nak, and the sender can retransmit on receipt of nak or just non-receipt of ack). You've got RAM in the Apple, use it as a buffer between the card reader and the serial port. 16KB would hold 136 full card images, which you might think would be more than enough time to tell the reader to stop picking cards and actually have it stop. So, when the buffer's fullness gets above some threshold, stop picking cards until it gets below some lower threshold. You may be able to do some cheap buffer- and serial-time savings by either run-length encoding or just keeping a record length and not storing or sending trailing blank (unpunched) columns. Depends on your data. I think I would go for this last. -Frank McConnell From foo at siconic.com Sun Dec 29 12:43:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212290856001.2219-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212291016400.2410-100000@siconic.com> On Sun, 29 Dec 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > The way I'm thinking to do it is to first determine what grouping the > character being read is in. It is either going to be in the 12, 11, or 0 > "zone", or in the extended characters, the 8-3 zone. And then there are > the extended IBM character sets (i.e. EBCDIC) where you have 8-x zones > where x can be any number. What these represent is the 8 and x columns > being punched together as a sort of "meta" code (kinda like a control key > on a keyboard). And I forgot to mention the really funky codes that combine two of the 12, 11, 0 zones and multiple rows to form special characters (like 12-0-1-8-9 for NUL in standard IBM EBCDIC). > Then, there will be 1-9 possible characters in each zone. After > determining the zone, finding the correct character will be a matter of a > simple table lookup. The table will contain the ASCII character code of > that character, and then off that goes over the serial port to the > receiving machine (or buffered in some manner). The idea is to create a character set template for each known set that can be loaded before each batch to be read. The template will include the exceptions like where multiple rows are punched for meta characters. Then it will be a simple matter to translate the code to the appropriate ASCII equivalent. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sun Dec 29 12:44:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: Mac Plus and Signatures In-Reply-To: <S.0000102788@mythtech.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212291044110.2410-100000@siconic.com> On Sun, 29 Dec 2002, chris wrote: > >If you really want to open it, take a > >BIC disposable pen, and remove the ink and the black end piece, leaving > >an empty tube. Shove a hex shaped pencil in one end, and a T-15 driver > >bit in the other. This creates a crude, but very functional Mac opener. > >If you use a long enough pencil, it is pretty easy to use. Doesn't the pencil break before you apply enough torque to turn the screw? > >Getting the > >case apart after the screws are out can be tricky too, and they sold a > >special tool to do it, but I have always just to be able to pull the > >halves apart. > > A small spring wood clamp with the rubber end caps removed works well. > Stick the clamp end into the slot between the front and rear halves, and > then squeeze the handle. As the clamp goes to open, it will pry the > halves apart. Do this gently in a few places around the case, and the > whole unit will easily pop apart. The special tool was called the Mac Cracker. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From marvin at rain.org Sun Dec 29 12:47:00 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: Incredible Find Message-ID: <3E0F43C9.3CC8EE4B@rain.org> Well, occassionally we stumble across something that is kind of unusual at a great price! Yesterday at TRW, Dave (senior moment, can't remember his last name but former member of this list) told me about a Heath 3400 microprocessor for sale. Turned out that the guy had the Heath Microprocessor trainer AND and a mostly unbuilt (resistors only soldered in the board) Heath I/O interface; both were in the original box and included the original manual! I have seen very few of the Heath interface units, and finding one that was essentially unbuilt was ... inspiring :)!!! From foo at siconic.com Sun Dec 29 12:49:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing In-Reply-To: <200212291823.gBTINbdL045712@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212291045530.2410-100000@siconic.com> On 29 Dec 2002, Frank McConnell wrote: > Except that, if you want to read binary cards (trust me, you will -- > those binary cards are contain boot and other code for these > machines), you need to do all 12 rows. 80 columns x 12 rows = 960 > bits / 8 bits per byte = 120 bytes per record. One step at a time. Right now I'm focused on getting the character data off the cards I have (mostly FORTRAN programs and numerical data). > You've got RAM in the Apple, use it as a buffer between the card > reader and the serial port. 16KB would hold 136 full card images, > which you might think would be more than enough time to tell the > reader to stop picking cards and actually have it stop. So, when the > buffer's fullness gets above some threshold, stop picking cards until > it gets below some lower threshold. If the data can't be transmitted between card picks then it can be buffered and, when it reaches a certain threshold, the pick signal can be de-asserted until the buffer clears the threshold, then picking can resume. > You may be able to do some cheap buffer- and serial-time savings by > either run-length encoding or just keeping a record length and not > storing or sending trailing blank (unpunched) columns. Depends on > your data. I think I would go for this last. Hmm, good idea. I hadn't considered that. It would certainly make no sense to buffer or transmit trailing blanks. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 29 13:02:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: Section 9? (HP 1000 power supply) In-Reply-To: <F72n5U9T3TGJ2TUSzbA000007c6@hotmail.com> from "Glen S" at Dec 29, 2 06:40:42 am Message-ID: <m18SiaG-000IzUC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 328 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021229/c21e9cf3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 29 13:02:52 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212281939060.32715-100000@siconic.com> from "Sellam Ismail" at Dec 28, 2 07:53:14 pm Message-ID: <m18SiTY-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4244 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021229/d0996bbd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 29 13:03:27 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: Section 9? (HP 1000 power supply) In-Reply-To: <200212290638.gBT6ceAl034447@daemonweed.reanimators.org> from "Frank McConnell" at Dec 28, 2 10:38:10 pm Message-ID: <m18SiWR-000IzSC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 711 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021229/16abb591/attachment.ksh From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Dec 29 13:05:01 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: Mac Plus and Signatures In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212291044110.2410-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <98D244DE-1B60-11D7-9ABC-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Sunday, December 29, 2002, at 01:45 PM, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sun, 29 Dec 2002, chris wrote: > >>> If you really want to open it, take a >>> BIC disposable pen, and remove the ink and the black end piece, >>> leaving >>> an empty tube. Shove a hex shaped pencil in one end, and a T-15 >>> driver >>> bit in the other. This creates a crude, but very functional Mac >>> opener. >>> If you use a long enough pencil, it is pretty easy to use. > > Doesn't the pencil break before you apply enough torque to turn the > screw? Nope. I have opened quite a lot of macs with one of these homemade tools. It works just fine. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Dec 29 13:06:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: Incredible Find In-Reply-To: <3E0F43C9.3CC8EE4B@rain.org> Message-ID: <02b001c2af6d$a1bd9ed0$020010ac@k4jcw> Will you build it, or keep it in kit form? Or even strip the resistors off? I know unbuilt Heathkit radios command a high price. But what's the best thing to do with the interface unit? --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Marvin Johnston > Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 13:50 > To: ClassicCmp > Subject: Incredible Find > > > > Well, occassionally we stumble across something that is kind > of unusual > at a great price! Yesterday at TRW, Dave (senior moment, > can't remember > his last name but former member of this list) told me about a > Heath 3400 > microprocessor for sale. Turned out that the guy had the Heath > Microprocessor trainer AND and a mostly unbuilt (resistors > only soldered > in the board) Heath I/O interface; both were in the original box and > included the original manual! I have seen very few of the Heath > interface units, and finding one that was essentially unbuilt was ... > inspiring :)!!! > From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Dec 29 13:06:36 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212291016400.2410-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212291102380.14204-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> On Sun, 29 Dec 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > And I forgot to mention the really funky codes that combine two of the 12, > 11, 0 zones and multiple rows to form special characters (like 12-0-1-8-9 > for NUL in standard IBM EBCDIC). And don't forget the silliness of punching graphic images on cards. I was showing punch cards to my OS class, including portapunch (right after a certain Florida election). I wanted to show them some of the variations, such as round-hole and other sizes (there are some great stories about some of those!), and the only example of the half sized card that I had was punched with holes making a picture of a hand giving the finger. Why not just read two columns, each of which is twelve bits, pass that as three bytes of raw binary, and then decode in the host machine? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From marvin at rain.org Sun Dec 29 13:24:00 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: Incredible Find References: <02b001c2af6d$a1bd9ed0$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <3E0F4C59.9A05F7B0@rain.org> While it might be fun to build, I will keep it as it is ... unlike a friend of mine. He took the Heath computer add-in for the H-19 computer and had his students build it. Good news, they received some experience soldering and putting together a kit. Bad news, they could have bought a LOT of kits for what that one would have probably brought. "J.C.Wren" wrote: > > Will you build it, or keep it in kit form? Or even strip the resistors > off? I know unbuilt Heathkit radios command a high price. But what's the > best thing to do with the interface unit? > > --John > > > > > Well, occassionally we stumble across something that is kind > > of unusual > > at a great price! Yesterday at TRW, Dave (senior moment, > > can't remember > > his last name but former member of this list) told me about a > > Heath 3400 > > microprocessor for sale. Turned out that the guy had the Heath > > Microprocessor trainer AND and a mostly unbuilt (resistors > > only soldered > > in the board) Heath I/O interface; both were in the original box and > > included the original manual! I have seen very few of the Heath > > interface units, and finding one that was essentially unbuilt was ... > > inspiring :)!!! > > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Dec 29 13:24:55 2002 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: WWII fire control 'computers' Message-ID: <20021229192713.12142.qmail@web21105.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, A bit (er, lot!) of a long shot this, but it's probably vaguely on-topic... Does anyone know anything about the mechanical fire control computers as used in second world war for UK coastal defence batteries? I did some restoration work out in New Zealand earlier in the year on a wartime coastal battery which was built to a British design, and used British systems. Unfortunately all information on 'out' plotting-room computer mysteriously vanished in the 1950's, and the unit itself sadly was cut up for scrap value many years ago. It'd be nice to get some information on possible units though just for something to show on site open days. It's possible that the unit shared a lot of commonality with ship-based systems, in some cut-down form or other, but I haven't yet located anyone who can confirm this. I seem to recall a few posts about US equivalent systems a few years back, so there's probably a few current list members who are interested in this sort of system despite the units being non-electronic in nature! cheers, Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Dec 29 14:10:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: Sound Computer Trades Message-ID: <20021229203917.GA29451@rhiannon.rddavis.org> An explanation of the title: I'm looking to trade some of my surplus classic computer, and other, equipment for used pro-sound equipment (what I'm looking for is listed at the end) Some of what's available for trade: * A large, double-height, non-DEC, Qbus expansion chasis, complete with it's own power supply, lighted power switch, etc. on the front panel. This is rather large and heavy. * A set of DECVoice cards for a q-bus VAX * Kaypro IV computer * Many Sun-3 VME-bus boards (sorry, still no complete list of these) that have taken over too large a part of the garage and the top of my workbench. What I do know is that there are many CG3 boards that I'd like to get rid of, along with graphics accellerators, etc. If you've discussed these before with me, please don't hesitate to pester me to check to see if I have a board that you're looking for... sometimes I forget, and sometimes there are other things in the way of my getting to these boards. * PDP-11/03 chasis (may or may not have any boards, such as a CPU, in it) * 25" Zenith picture tube from the 1970's or earlier (I've no idea what to do with this, but it would be a shame to toss it in the trash... it's been taking up space for a couple of decades, and I'd like to find a good home for it). Somewhere, I may even have the solid metal front panel that goes with it. Buy this tube (for a ridiculously low price!), and I'll toss in the front panel for *free* if I can find it ...don't delay, as this special bonus offer may expire within the next decade or so! :-) * 17" HP color monitor * 19" Apollo color monitor * Apollo DN3500 with color board. * Parts for a PDP-11/34A, including power supply in bits, front panel, assorted hardware such as cables and screws, boards, etc. Just add a chasis and you may find that you have nearly a working system... maybe you can even convince me to part with the real core memory for it! * A Falco 5000 (F5000?) terminal that needs a few adjustments * A Macintosh 512K * A 19" wide rack-mountable slide-out drawer. You need one of these in your PDP-11's rack, don't you? Yes, you do! :-) * A QMS printer controller (?) board for Macintosh computers Other things that may be of interest to some... * CRT from an ancient Dumont oscilloscope * A modular GE mobile transceiver with valves in the transmitter and receiver. The third module is a vibrator type power supply. This was originally used as a police radio or somesuch. The case that surrounds this is missing, but you get the frame that holds the modules together. Somewhere, I may have the service manual for it. * A vintage Kenwood (KR-7070, IIRC) top-of-the line receiver, from the 1970s, in need of a little restoration work, complete with real-wood, not veneer, cabinetry. = = = = = = = = = Items on my audio and synthesis "want list" include: * compressor/limiter (preferably one using tubes) * spectral enhancer or similar equipment (e.g. DBX model 726) * instrument condenser microphone (at least 30Hz to 20KHz bandwidth, +/- 3 db); * Tascam DX-4D, 4-channel DBX-1 unit * 8-channel 1/2" reel to reel with good heads & motors ...and other mechanical bits in good or repairable condition. Test tape for calibration must still be available from some source. * old 12-plus channel mixer board (must have analog VU meters); ok to be in need of electronic/electrical repairs; prefer Yamaha boards, but that's not a definite requirement * 19" mobile console rack that will hold rack-mounted multitrack recorder at a 20 to 45 degree, or so, angle (e.g., something resembling a Tascam CS-607B rack) * phase shifter * factory patch tapes for Juno-60 synth * audio patch bay (16 to 32 channels) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Dec 29 14:36:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: WWII fire control 'computers' In-Reply-To: <20021229192713.12142.qmail@web21105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021229151929.25334B-100000@osfn.org> > A bit (er, lot!) of a long shot this, but it's probably vaguely on-topic... All questions about fire control computers involve shots... > Does anyone know anything about the mechanical fire control computers as used > in second world war for UK coastal defence batteries? You might try posting this question to the guys that know, on the coastal-defense mail list (yes, there is a list for geeks of all kinds). I can post the question to the list, if you wish. > I did some restoration > work out in New Zealand earlier in the year on a wartime coastal battery which > was built to a British design, and used British systems. Unfortunately all > information on 'out' plotting-room computer mysteriously vanished in the > 1950's, and the unit itself sadly was cut up for scrap value many years ago. > It'd be nice to get some information on possible units though just for > something to show on site open days. Getting any information or artifacts will be very difficult - about as close to impossible as you can get. The reason for this is post-war, the fire control computers were of little use (they do exactly one function) and have large scrap values (for example, a Mk IV TDC has about a _pound_ of gold inside). When the mechanisms were scrapped, the manuals were simply thrown away. I have a collection of fire control gear, but I have never found any of the computers complete. The only one I have ever seen was at The American Science Center (a rather famous surplus hangout in Chicago) about 15 years ago. It sold many years ago - and I wonder where it went. > It's possible that the unit shared a lot of commonality with ship-based > systems, in some cut-down form or other, but I haven't yet located anyone who > can confirm this. Possibly. They probably would be cut down, as there are less variables to deal with - not being on a ship means that you can eliminate the stable element and gyrocompass inputs. > I seem to recall a few posts about US equivalent systems a few years back, so > there's probably a few current list members who are interested in this sort of > system despite the units being non-electronic in nature! I am very interested in these things (I think the fire control collection now outweighs the computer collection). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Dec 29 14:46:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: Dinosaur Computer Company? In-Reply-To: <20021225073048.817BF169D5@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021229154728.25334D-100000@osfn.org> > If memory serves me right, they were based out of the state he was living > in at the time (either Michigan or Wisconsin, I don't remember which). > > Anyone know anything about these guys? I remember a company called Dinosaur Parts that sold framed core planes from interesting old computers. I still have the catalog, 15 years later. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Dec 29 15:26:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: WWII fire control 'computers' References: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021229151929.25334B-100000@osfn.org> Message-ID: <000e01c2af81$6ff71160$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Donzelli" <aw288@osfn.org> To: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Cc: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 3:39 PM Subject: Re: WWII fire control 'computers' > > A bit (er, lot!) of a long shot this, but it's probably vaguely on-topic... > > All questions about fire control computers involve shots... > > > Does anyone know anything about the mechanical fire control computers as used > > in second world war for UK coastal defence batteries? > > You might try posting this question to the guys that know, on the > coastal-defense mail list (yes, there is a list for geeks of all kinds). > I can post the question to the list, if you wish. Ok, I'll bite. Got a URL? I'm up to the 10th page on google, but nothing recognizable. --Say, it's not a yahoo group, is it? Looks like there might be a costal defense group there, but I don't want to hit up yahoo unless it's really worth it. > William Donzelli Bob From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Dec 29 15:33:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: WWII fire control 'computers' In-Reply-To: <000e01c2af81$6ff71160$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021229163418.25334F-100000@osfn.org> > Ok, I'll bite. Got a URL? I'm up to the 10th page on google, but nothing > recognizable. --Say, it's not a yahoo group, is it? Looks like there might > be a costal defense group there, but I don't want to hit up yahoo unless > it's really worth it. It is a Yahoo group. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Dec 29 15:39:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212291102380.14204-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> Message-ID: <3E0F6B92.90206@jetnet.ab.ca> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Sun, 29 Dec 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > >>And I forgot to mention the really funky codes that combine two of the 12, >>11, 0 zones and multiple rows to form special characters (like 12-0-1-8-9 >>for NUL in standard IBM EBCDIC). > > > And don't forget the silliness of punching graphic images on cards. I was > showing punch cards to my OS class, including portapunch (right after a > certain Florida election). I wanted to show them some of the variations, > such as round-hole and other sizes (there are some great stories about > some of those!), and the only example of the half sized card that I had > was punched with holes making a picture of a hand giving the finger. > Why not just read two columns, each of which is twelve bits, pass that as > three bytes of raw binary, and then decode in the host machine? I would read all 80 columns 16 bits each. Remember often a blank column could be read as a leading zero. One place to look for card to ascii? encoding is old data books on mask programable roms as that was a common use for them. Ben. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Dec 29 15:51:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing In-Reply-To: <3E0F6B92.90206@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212291346590.14204-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> > > Why not just read two columns, each of which is twelve bits, pass that as > > three bytes of raw binary, and then decode in the host machine? On Sun, 29 Dec 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > I would read all 80 columns Of course. If there is a data communications bottleneck, trailing blanks could be inferred, rather than explicitly transmitted from the reader to the host machine, but ALL columns must be read. > 16 bits each. Why 16 bits? There are 12 physical bits present. (Y,X,0-9) Or is that just for the convenience of doing it in 16 bit machines? > Remember often a blank column could be read > as a leading zero. One place to look for card > to ascii? encoding is old data books on mask > programable roms as that was a common use for > them. Decoding is the only part that remains truly trivial (in software). Even a hardware based decoding could be done fairly easily with a ROM and using the 12 bits to find the appropriate value in an array of 4096 possible outputs. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 29 16:25:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: Incredible Find In-Reply-To: <02b001c2af6d$a1bd9ed0$020010ac@k4jcw> from "J.C.Wren" at Dec 29, 2 02:08:10 pm Message-ID: <m18Slpb-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 602 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021229/8f0a2b69/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Sun Dec 29 18:33:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212291102380.14204-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212291632460.3131-100000@siconic.com> On Sun, 29 Dec 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > And don't forget the silliness of punching graphic images on cards. I was > showing punch cards to my OS class, including portapunch (right after a > certain Florida election). I wanted to show them some of the variations, > such as round-hole and other sizes (there are some great stories about > some of those!), and the only example of the half sized card that I had > was punched with holes making a picture of a hand giving the finger. I won't make an effort to read those cards ;) > Why not just read two columns, each of which is twelve bits, pass that > as three bytes of raw binary, and then decode in the host machine? That's a pretty good idea. But I kinda prefer programming on the Apple //e and like the idea of having it do the translation so that it spits out raw ASCII. Plus it's much funner ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From msspcva at yahoo.com Sun Dec 29 18:45:01 2002 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: WWII fire control 'computers' - side note In-Reply-To: <20021229192713.12142.qmail@web21105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021230004742.16205.qmail@web41113.mail.yahoo.com> As an interesting side note, when President Reagan reactivated the Iowa-class battleships from WWII back in the '80s I remember reading that they kept the original fire control computers because they were as accurate as a modern electronic equivalent. Good hunting! -- Frank --- Jules Richardson <julesrichardsonuk@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Hi, > > A bit (er, lot!) of a long shot this, but it's > probably vaguely on-topic... > > Does anyone know anything about the mechanical fire > control computers as used > in second world war for UK coastal defence > batteries? I did some restoration > work out in New Zealand earlier in the year on a > wartime coastal battery which > was built to a British design, and used British > systems. Unfortunately all > information on 'out' plotting-room computer > mysteriously vanished in the > 1950's, and the unit itself sadly was cut up for > scrap value many years ago. > It'd be nice to get some information on possible > units though just for > something to show on site open days. > > It's possible that the unit shared a lot of > commonality with ship-based > systems, in some cut-down form or other, but I > haven't yet located anyone who > can confirm this. > > I seem to recall a few posts about US equivalent > systems a few years back, so > there's probably a few current list members who are > interested in this sort of > system despite the units being non-electronic in > nature! > > > cheers, > > Jules > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Dec 29 20:14:13 2002 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 anyone with some working experience out there? In-Reply-To: <3E0CF1DF.6050602@srv.net> References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0212280023580.5170-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021227180521.02895e78@209.66.107.193> At 05:35 PM 12/27/2002 -0700, Kevin Handy wrote: [He quoted everything but only added : ] >I have a KDA50, but no cabling for it. >Would be willing to swap for anything intresting... Do you want cabling ? I probably have a cabinet kit for the KDA50 around somewhere. I'd be willing to swap it for another parallel card. --Chuck From alandevlin at bigpond.com Sun Dec 29 20:15:20 2002 From: alandevlin at bigpond.com (Alan P. Devlin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: Manual(s) for Fluke 9010 Troubleshooter 8080 and 8085 pods? Message-ID: <3E0D1F25.3D6FE555@bigpond.com> Gidday Tony, you may wish to check my WEBSITE ! I have the (almost) complete SET of Service Manuals for this hardware. Cheers. Alan. Alan Devlin. RF RESALE... where Honesty & Integrity are paramount ! Melbourne, Australia. WEB PAGE URL http://www.users.bigpond.com/alandevlin/index.html manual(s) for Fluke 9010 Troubleshooter 8080 and 8085 pods? Tony Eros cctech@classiccmp.org Sun Oct 13 18:59:32 2002 Previous message: manual(s) for Fluke 9010 Troubleshooter 8080 and 8085 pods? Next message: 10 years Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Dec 29 20:37:01 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: DIY Equipment Racks Message-ID: <20021230030644.GB29451@rhiannon.rddavis.org> While thinking about racks to use for mounting my PDP-11/44 components, as well as other equipment from test equipment to audio and synth equipment, something just occured to me: why bother with hunting down steel racks when some 2x4s and lag bolts may suffice just as well? I was thinking that one can just run 2x4s from the basement floor up to the heavy wooden rafters, attach them to the rafters, and then add horizontal supports at the bottom to space the vertical 2x4s apart properly. Any thoughts on this? I guess the museum-type equipment purists won't like the idea, but it would be a cheap and functional solution for many of us. :-) Has anyone else here tried this? Lastly, has anyone on this list tried retrofitting non-rack-mount equipment into racks? E.g., welding (or "JB Weld"ing) rack-mount tabs onto systems like PCs and Kaypros, as well as making rack-mountable shelves to hold the Macintoshes, etc.? Just trying to think of ways to save space. Stacking system on top of system, helter skelter, as systems are added, tends to result in rather annoying, space hogging, piles of systems after a while, making some systems difficult to get to at times. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Dec 29 20:46:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: TMS9900 Lives! (fwd) Message-ID: <200212300258.SAA27452@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Spotted on the ti99 list on YahooGroups. ----- Forwarded message ----- X-Apparently-To: ti99-4a{{{at}}}yahoogroups.com To: ti99-4a{{{at}}}yahoogroups.com Message-id: <200212292023.NAA07743@aztec2.asu.edu> X-eGroups-From: dlormand{{{at}}}aztec.asu.edu (DAVID L. ORMAND) Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 13:23:55 -0700 (MST) Subject: [ti-99/4a] TMS9900 Lives! Just thought you guys would get a charge out of this: Regardless of what anyone else thinks, the Army thinks we will be at war with Iraq imminently. So the old TOW team has been busy through the Christmas break. And I got to play with 9989 assembly again! Joy! Furthermore, since the old development tools don't seem to be working anymore (VAX and HP9000), I had to drag in one of my TI-99/4A systems to do module testing! Much to the amusement of the rest of the team! The old dog still lives! For users/owners of TI-99/4A and compatibles everywhere! To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: ti99-4a-unsubscribe{{{at}}}eGroups.com ----- End of forwarded message ----- -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Less talk, more synthohol. -- Lt. Worf, Star Trek: TNG --------------------- From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Dec 29 20:53:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: DIY Equipment Racks In-Reply-To: <20021230030644.GB29451@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021229214720.7483B-100000@osfn.org> > While thinking about racks to use for mounting my PDP-11/44 > components, as well as other equipment from test equipment to audio > and synth equipment, something just occured to me: why bother with > hunting down steel racks when some 2x4s and lag bolts may suffice just > as well? This is an old ham trick. In theory, it works, but it really is not very practical, with the work involved. It is much easier to just find a rack, or just find the rack rails and attach them to the wood. > Lastly, has anyone on this list tried retrofitting non-rack-mount > equipment into racks? E.g., welding (or "JB Weld"ing) rack-mount tabs > onto systems like PCs and Kaypros, as well as making rack-mountable > shelves to hold the Macintoshes, etc.? Shelves are easy to make. At just about every hamfest, there is usually some hunk of junk rackmount dofunny sitting in the dumpster at the end of the show (act fast, as the vultures are out). If you examine how many are made, you can generally find a pair of metal brackets that will do the job. These brackets, somewhat triangular and always in pairs, were a very common way to attach off-the-shelf chassis to rack panels. If you can't bolt these directly to the thing you want to mount, try cutting a square of plywood with a few screws, and perhaps some aluminum angle stock. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jss at subatomix.com Sun Dec 29 21:19:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: Qs about big tape drives Message-ID: <153506962072.20021229212206@subatomix.com> All right. College is over, and I'm starting to map out plans for my Machine Room of Ultimate Power (Consumption). Trouble is, my 850 sq ft house is not much bigger than an apartment. I've found that vertical storage is my friend here, and I want to use as much of that as I can. I've got this Kennedy 9300 tape transport. It's big like a DEC TE16 and has vacuum columns and such. It will live at the top of a rack. Unfortunately...um...I've never actually *used* one of these big tape drives, or any tape drive for that matter, and I can find zilch docs on it. Are there going to be problems with sticking anything else (storage or processor) under it? Specifically, would vibrations from the 9300 cause problems (e.g. alignment) with a disk drive (e.g. RK05) mounted below it? Could vibrations cause problems (e.g. cards working themselves out of the backplane) with a processor (e.g. 11/34)? -- Jeffrey Sharp From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Dec 29 21:21:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: DIY Equipment Racks In-Reply-To: <20021230030644.GB29451@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212292115120.8951-100000@george.home.org> On Sun, 29 Dec 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > Lastly, has anyone on this list tried retrofitting non-rack-mount > equipment into racks? E.g., welding (or "JB Weld"ing) rack-mount tabs > onto systems like PCs and Kaypros, as well as making rack-mountable > shelves to hold the Macintoshes, etc.? Just trying to think of ways > to save space. Stacking system on top of system, helter skelter, as > systems are added, tends to result in rather annoying, space hogging, > piles of systems after a while, making some systems difficult to get > to at times. Well, it sounds workable, but it's honestly probably more expensive than buying a used rack. My boss just bought one, a 72"x19" with 2 PDU bars, front and rear doors, and 8 shelves, for $85. One of the VERY nice features of a fully enclosed rack, wood or steel, is the noise reduction. We had 4 PCs, a Cisco router, a 43P RS/6000, and my Ultra1 going in there. Now everything but the Cisco is in the rack, and the noise level has been cut by at least half. We rubber-glued thin, dense foam inside the side panels and doors (being careful not to restrict airflow). Machine room/office is much neater, much cooler, since we stuck the rack under the return-air duct, and *much* quieter. Doc From red at bears.org Sun Dec 29 21:31:01 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: DIY Equipment Racks In-Reply-To: <20021230030644.GB29451@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20021230030644.GB29451@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212292214001.11577-100000@instinct.bears.org> On Sun, 29 Dec 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > While thinking about racks to use for mounting my PDP-11/44 > components, as well as other equipment from test equipment to audio > and synth equipment, > [...] > equipment purists won't like the idea, but it would be a cheap and > functional solution for many of us. :-) Has anyone else here tried > this? Interestingly enough, the "Corras" rolling end table that Ikea sells has just the right dimensions to make a very serviceable makeshift equipment rack. It sells for $35, includes one adjustable shelf, and offers approximately 14U (without the shelf). A month or so ago I experimented with screwing two units together, one on top of the other. It has worked out well so far, with the exception of the included casters not being up to the job. I replaced them with a sturdier set and everything's been good to date. I don't know if they're up to 11/44 standards, but the three I have are working well for me, holding some relatively large equipment... I've got a Proliant 5000 and an RS/6000 B50 in the bottom of the double unit I built, with the Compaq storage array for the Proliant in the upper unit, along with a Cisco Catalyst 1800, a Catalyst 1400, and an STP TR MAU. That's a good 350 to 400 pounds of equipment. ok r. From sloboyko at yahoo.com Sun Dec 29 22:08:01 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: DIY Equipment Racks In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021229214720.7483B-100000@osfn.org> Message-ID: <20021230041049.29702.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> I'm very happy with the one I made out of oak plywood. Expensive, but looks nice in the house. My future geek equipment will be made this way. But, "real" rack assemblies have fans, overtemp alarms/shutoffs, etc, and I would hate to leave stuff on unattended without these items. --- William Donzelli <aw288@osfn.org> wrote: > > While thinking about racks to use for mounting my > PDP-11/44 > > components, as well as other equipment from test > equipment to audio > > and synth equipment, something just occured to me: > why bother with > > hunting down steel racks when some 2x4s and lag > bolts may suffice just > > as well? > > This is an old ham trick. In theory, it works, but > it really is not very > practical, with the work involved. It is much easier > to just find a rack, > or just find the rack rails and attach them to the > wood. > > > Lastly, has anyone on this list tried retrofitting > non-rack-mount > > equipment into racks? E.g., welding (or "JB > Weld"ing) rack-mount tabs > > onto systems like PCs and Kaypros, as well as > making rack-mountable > > shelves to hold the Macintoshes, etc.? > > Shelves are easy to make. At just about every > hamfest, there is usually > some hunk of junk rackmount dofunny sitting in the > dumpster at the end of > the show (act fast, as the vultures are out). If you > examine how many are > made, you can generally find a pair of metal > brackets that will do the > job. These brackets, somewhat triangular and always > in pairs, were a very > common way to attach off-the-shelf chassis to rack > panels. If you can't > bolt these directly to the thing you want to mount, > try cutting a square > of plywood with a few screws, and perhaps some > aluminum angle stock. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From fernande at internet1.net Sun Dec 29 22:14:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: WWII fire control 'computers' - side note In-Reply-To: <20021230004742.16205.qmail@web41113.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021230004742.16205.qmail@web41113.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E0FC879.9070103@internet1.net> Clayton Frank Helvey wrote: > As an interesting side note, when President Reagan > reactivated the Iowa-class battleships from WWII back > in the '80s I remember reading that they kept the > original fire control computers because they were as > accurate as a modern electronic equivalent. > > Good hunting! > > -- Frank It thought it was navigation? I had an article on that, but I'm not sure if I currently have it..... if I do, it's in one of many boxes, in one of two rooms. I just moved :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From foo at siconic.com Sun Dec 29 22:28:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:54 2005 Subject: TMS9900 Lives! (fwd) In-Reply-To: <200212300258.SAA27452@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212292028590.3575-100000@siconic.com> On Sun, 29 Dec 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Spotted on the ti99 list on YahooGroups. > > ----- Forwarded message ----- > > X-Apparently-To: ti99-4a{{{at}}}yahoogroups.com > To: ti99-4a{{{at}}}yahoogroups.com > Message-id: <200212292023.NAA07743@aztec2.asu.edu> > X-eGroups-From: dlormand{{{at}}}aztec.asu.edu (DAVID L. ORMAND) > Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 13:23:55 -0700 (MST) > Subject: [ti-99/4a] TMS9900 Lives! > > > > Just thought you guys would get a charge out of this: > > Regardless of what anyone else thinks, the Army thinks we > will be at war with Iraq imminently. So the old TOW team > has been busy through the Christmas break. > > And I got to play with 9989 assembly again! Joy! > > Furthermore, since the old development tools don't seem to > be working anymore (VAX and HP9000), I had to drag in one > of my TI-99/4A systems to do module testing! Much to the > amusement of the rest of the team! > > The old dog still lives! So basically, old computers can kill just as senselessly as new computers. Wonderful. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sun Dec 29 22:41:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing In-Reply-To: <m18SiTY-000IzIC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212291606530.3068-100000@siconic.com> On Sun, 29 Dec 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > If oyu designed/built it, then it almost certainly used standard chips. > In which case it would be possible to reverse-engineer it in a couple of > hours at most. Probably less time than it would take to find the notes. It's actually two chips: the 6522 and an 7473 that is either used to map the addressing of the timers and registers into the Apple's memory bus or to invert one of the Apple's clock signals to be compatible with the 6522 (I can't remember for sure...maybe it does both). > My experience is that if you designed something you never really forget > what you did. So you'll find all the tricks come back to you as you start > looking at the circuitry. I didn't design it. I just built it from plans :( > If you've got 2 16 bit ports + a 4 bit port you must have 2 6522s (for > the 32 data lines). The 4 bits could be some combination of the CA and CB > lines of the VIAs (4 lines per chip). No, two 16-bit timers/registers and two 8-bit ports, plus the CA and CB lines (2 bits each). > It sounds like you really need a 6522 data sheet and/or the Beeb Advanced > User Guide (which has a fair amount of 6522 programming info in it. I have a data sheet. I just haven't had a chance to study it yet. > A single 6522 takes up 16 bytes. If it's wired conventionally, the > registers are : > > 0 : Port B (Write : output register, Read : Input register) > 1 : Port A > 2 : Direction Register B > 3 : Direction Register A > 4 : T1 low counter byte (timer) > 5 : T1 high counter byte > 6 : T1 latch low byte > 7 : T1 latch high byte > 8 : T2 low byte > 9 : T2 high byte > 10 : Shift register > 11 : Aux control register > 12 : Peripehral control register > 13 : Interrupt flag register > 14 : Interrupt enable register > 15 : Port A (but with no handshake) That looks very close to what I know I have, and being that the board was designed by a student of the same class a few years before I took it, I would imagine it is probably wired "conventionally". Thanks for that! > Most likely you had interrupts enabled, the 6522 generated an interrupt, > and the Apple wwnt off to never-never land because the interrupt vector > didn't point anywhere sane. At the time I was probing a ground pin in Slot 1 but I don't think I did anything to reset the machine. I could swear a RESET was generated because it spontaneously reset. Whatever. > Err, some of those keyboard lines (I forget if it's the X or Y signals) > are _outputs_. The keyboard encoder chip scans them -- asserts them one > at a time -- and looks for a signal on the other set of lines. If it > finds one, then it knows that a key has been pressed, connecting one X > line to one Y line. Oh. (Shucks.) > The keyboard also can't sent more than 128 different characters to the > Apple (it's read in on a 7 bit port -- the 8th bit is the keyboard strobe > line, indicating that a key has been pressed). If you really want to use > the keyboard port for a reader input, then you're better off attacking it > at this interface -- the cable between the keyboard assembly and the CPU > board. Oh, well that's what I was considering doing. At that point it's a TTL parallel input, correct? > It's true for 'normal' characters. It breaks for many punctuation and > special symbols, and it breaks bigtime for binary cards (where any > combination of holes -- including all holes -- is possible). Yes, but for run of the mill cards it would work pretty well. The problem with the 6522 is the kludge connector I've made up. I have to come up with something more elegant (and permanent). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Dec 29 22:42:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: Sun workstation and HP 98789A monitor? Message-ID: <20021230051101.GC29451@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Tonight while looking for a wall wart for an old Hayes modem, I discovered something that I didn't know I had: some sort of monitor cable adapter. At one end is a Sun workstation style monitor connector from which four cables are connected to BNC connectors with reg, green, blue and white labels. Does anyone on this group knows if it will work with an HP (Sony) 98789A fixed frequency monitor which has R, G, B and HD and VD sync connectors (can I use just one of these syncs?). I'd hook it up to see if it works without asking, but I'd prefer not to have to carry the monitor down to the basement if it isn't going to work. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Dec 29 22:42:31 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: WWII fire control 'computers' - side note In-Reply-To: <3E0FC879.9070103@internet1.net> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021229232533.7483P-100000@osfn.org> > It thought it was navigation? I had an article on that, but I'm not > sure if I currently have it..... if I do, it's in one of many boxes, in > one of two rooms. I just moved :-) Navigation and fire control are interwoven. And yes, the Iowas still have Mk 16 gyrocompasses from Sperry. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Dec 29 22:49:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: DIY Equipment Racks In-Reply-To: <20021230030644.GB29451@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <v04020a00ba357d9eb07d@[192.168.1.5]> >While thinking about racks to use for mounting my PDP-11/44 >components, as well as other equipment from test equipment to audio >and synth equipment, something just occured to me: why bother with >hunting down steel racks when some 2x4s and lag bolts may suffice just >as well? I was thinking that one can just run 2x4s from the basement >floor up to the heavy wooden rafters, attach them to the rafters, and >then add horizontal supports at the bottom to space the vertical 2x4s >apart properly. Any thoughts on this? I guess the museum-type >equipment purists won't like the idea, but it would be a cheap and >functional solution for many of us. :-) Has anyone else here tried >this? Well, I'm sitting here typing this with a wooden rack on either side of the desk. They're prefab "shelving units" that you put together. Of equipment that's normally rack mounted I've currenly got a PDP-8/m in one and a storageworks shelf in the other. Up until a few days ago, I also had a High-Speed papertape reader in the one, so far that's the only rackmount that I've tried that's been a tight fit. I've been buying them at "Fred Meyer's", they're basically 4 boards that are about 5'3" high, with shelves that are about 32"x18". I've found it best to buy 3 sets at a time to have enough shelves for making up two. I also use them in my one storage unit, and have a pair that are 3 sections long, and another that is 2 sections long. >Lastly, has anyone on this list tried retrofitting non-rack-mount >equipment into racks? E.g., welding (or "JB Weld"ing) rack-mount tabs >onto systems like PCs and Kaypros, as well as making rack-mountable >shelves to hold the Macintoshes, etc.? Just trying to think of ways >to save space. Stacking system on top of system, helter skelter, as >systems are added, tends to result in rather annoying, space hogging, >piles of systems after a while, making some systems difficult to get >to at times. I'd recommend building shelves for your rack rather than trying to make a non-rack mounted system a rack mount. That's what I do, and it's also what we do at work. For example Sun Pizza boxes fit great on the shelf of a 19" rack. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Dec 29 23:12:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: Sun workstation and HP 98789A monitor? In-Reply-To: <20021230051101.GC29451@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212292300110.9652-100000@george.home.org> On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > Tonight while looking for a wall wart for an old Hayes modem, I > discovered something that I didn't know I had: some sort of monitor > cable adapter. At one end is a Sun workstation style monitor > connector from which four cables are connected to BNC connectors with > reg, green, blue and white labels. Does anyone on this group knows if > it will work with an HP (Sony) 98789A fixed frequency monitor which > has R, G, B and HD and VD sync connectors (can I use just one of these > syncs?). I'd hook it up to see if it works without asking, but I'd > prefer not to have to carry the monitor down to the basement if it > isn't going to work. :-) That's going to depend more on the graphics adapter than the cable adapter. If the adapter outputs sync-on-green (old DEC, SGI), you can use only the R, G, and B connectors, or use the white one on the HD sync if your graphics card outputs Composite-Sync (Macs, most Sun, etc.) All of the 5-BNC displays I've owned would work with mono (one connection to green), RGB, Composite-Sync, or Separatee-Sync. However, fixed-frequency displas often won't work because the graphics adapter can't be tuned to the right sync & refresh. My HP 98754A - same specs, bigger tube - will work with an MCA color graphics adapter, although the picture is square, an IBM X-Station 150, most of my 9000/7xx boxes, and, IIRC, the 4-plane color board in one of my VAXstation 3100s. The specs are 63.35KHz and 60Hz, by the way. You can probably underdrive it by 5%, and I wouldn't overdrive it more than 1-2%, if at all. What are you going to connect it to? Doc From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Dec 29 23:15:01 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: WWII fire control 'computers' - side note References: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021229232533.7483P-100000@osfn.org> Message-ID: <3E0FD710.1020400@eoni.com> <http://www.dustdevil.com/ppl/billgx/mk38.htm> William Donzelli wrote: > Navigation and fire control are interwoven. And yes, the Iowas still have > Mk 16 gyrocompasses from Sperry. From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Dec 29 23:42:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: Sun workstation and HP 98789A monitor? In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212292300110.9652-100000@george.home.org> References: <20021230051101.GC29451@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212292300110.9652-100000@george.home.org> Message-ID: <20021230061153.GD29451@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Doc Shipley, from writings of Sun, Dec 29, 2002 at 11:14:16PM -0600: > What are you going to connect it to? Oops... I forgot to mention that. The plan was to attach it to a Sun Ultra-1, if that will work. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Dec 30 00:01:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: DIY Equipment Racks In-Reply-To: <v04020a00ba357d9eb07d@[192.168.1.5]> References: <v04020a00ba357d9eb07d@[192.168.1.5]> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212300052090.18543@panix3.panix.com> Actually, in the case of the 11/44 (and other BA-type cabinets) it is necessary to mount the rack slides, not the box itself, because you have to get into it to make changes, fix stuff, impress visitors, etc. And the rack slides *must* be mounted front and rear, because a loaded 11/44 (or /34a) weighs somewhat more than 100 lb. The slide flanges are not capable of holding the load if not suppported at the back of the rack as well. The only other way would be to shelf-mount the unit, or on wide parallel flanges underneath (I have done this, using 2" aluminum angles mounted horizontally to the rack uprights) but still the problem remains of access... in the case of the /44 and /34a, the weight of the power supply is toward the back of the box, so that helps out a bit. All of my current music studio gear is mounted on 2x4s with drywall screws thru the flanges - works fine so far, though it's a bit 'rustic'. I just didn't have the money or the time to find suitable racks, so off to Mountain Builders I went. But nothing I have comes even close to the loads of as 11/44.... not to mention an RL02, which must be slid out from the rack to change packs. Ths would be *ugly* in the non-rack-slide scenario, IMHO. Cheers John From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Dec 30 00:09:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: Sun workstation and HP 98789A monitor? In-Reply-To: <20021230061153.GD29451@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212300003050.10151-100000@george.home.org> On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe Doc Shipley, from writings of Sun, Dec 29, 2002 at 11:14:16PM -0600: > > What are you going to connect it to? > > Oops... I forgot to mention that. The plan was to attach it to a > Sun Ultra-1, if that will work. Probably not. I don't have the specs on the various sbus framebuffers, but I think their outputs are all a little different than HP or IBM standard. OTOH, other than some wasted effort hauling it downstairs, it shouldn't hurt to try it, if you're quick to shut it down... ;) Doc From fm.arnold at gmx.net Mon Dec 30 00:11:23 2002 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <PM-CH.20021230071356.49D50.2.1D@mail.gmx.net> >Message: 3 >Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 20:46:01 -0600 >Subject: DEC 3000 300X/300 >From: Bradley Slavik <fire@dls.net> >To: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> >Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > >I finally am almost within reach of getting my DEC 3000 300 working. A few >years ago I foolishly purchased it without memory, thinking it would be a >simple matter to inexpensively pick up some memory later. How wrong I was. >Now I have purchased a DEC 3000 300X with 160MB memory with the intention of >lending 32MB to the 300. > My 300LX uses 8 or 32 mb 72 pin FPM-DIMM's (with Parity, that's important!). Did not try 16 or 64 mb modules, anyone else? >Now I look at the back of the machine and my main >question is what cable do I need to hook up my VT220, or my VT420, or what >model monitor with keyboard and mouse is this thing supposed to work with? > >In a typical DEC fashion, in the manual they do not mention model numbers of >monitor to go with it, but there are rough instructions that I may be able >to follow to get dumb terminal console working. I would ideally like to have >real monitor on 300X, Read the manual at page 1-3 for supported monitors. I think you are aware of Keyboard-mouse Cable 17-02640-01 and the DEC-protocol of the mouse. Otherwise see: http://www.netclique.net/oldmouse/Hawley/DEC-VAX.html or http://www.cs.utk.edu/~shuford/terminal/dec_mouse_news.txt http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author:mzthompson%40aol.com&hl=de&lr =lang_en&ie=UTF-8&selm=20021016091543.01470.00001267%40mb-mb.aol.com&rnum=4 (on one line). > >VT420 on 300, leaving my VT220 free for my MicroVax II. > Any ascii-terminal will work, use 9600 baud setting. I just tried to connect a VT220 to my 300LX to the 25 pole D-connector (plug 4 on page 3-6) and was successful with a BC22A-25 cable. (Dont forget to detach the keyboard from 300LX!) It takes about 1-2 minutes before the first text appears to the serial terminal. Output comes just after the 3-tone melody. Build-in CRT-output comes much faster. I have a VR297-DA, and tried to connect it to the 300LX to no success. (There is some picture and synchronisation, but the information appears 5 times adjacent, and is not readable.) Either this monitor does not match the 300LX or the video-setup of the internal adapter has the wrong parameters. Anyone some clues about this? To what workstation will the VR297-DA fit? I hope this helps you. Frank Arnold From foo at siconic.com Mon Dec 30 00:45:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: Can't figure out CA and CB ports on 6522 Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212292244300.3917-100000@siconic.com> I'm having a heck of a time figuring out how to use the CA and CB ports on the 6522 as inputs. From the documentation I have, it seems the CA port can be used for one TTL input, and CB can be used as two. But how do you set them up as such? The documentation is confusing. I'll sleep on it and see if either a) I wake up refreshed and figure it out or b) wake up and find a nice helpful message waiting here ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Dec 30 03:22:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: Jupiter Ace repair update Message-ID: <003b01c2afe5$40122de0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Hi, A little more news on the Ace repair front - I've pulled up the LS367s and found a load of tracks that were ripped up during resoldering - about half of these have now been repaired. It looks like the surge went straight through data line D3 - I've put the ROMs in my EPROM programmer and checked them against the ROM images Lee Davison sent me and they don't match at all. In every case, the output value is off by 0x04 - meaning data line D2 is probably cooked... I'm also beginning to suspect the video shift register - something isn't right. Address decoding is fine, the RAMs should have survived being de-soldered and re-soldered (IME they usually do) and I can't find any problems with the video timing chain (I assume the fact that I'm getting a video signal on my TV is good enough proof of this). It looks like the PCB was laid out with the main CPU section on the left and the video section on the right with a set of LS367s splitting them up. This is not as cheap a design as the ZX81 (IMO), but the PCB is complete and utter crap - the tin plating is stripping off all over the place, solder resist is cracking and has got thin, raised strips running along its length, kinda like the veins on a tree leaf. I've bodged a pair of 2732 ROMs I had in my junk box to fit the sockets and pinout. The video is reasonably stable, but it's mostly white. I haven't got any idea why the font RAM and video RAM aren't being loaded, though. Now if only Farnell still stocked 2532s and 2114s... Thankfully the buffers seem to have isolated a lot of circuitry in the video circuitry, especially the timing chain. The only possible fault condition I can think of is that Jupiter Cantab designed the Ace around National Semiconductor/Motorola/TI 74LS logic and the newer Fairchild Semi logic devices I'm using are incompatible with the existing logic... Stranger and stranger... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Dec 30 03:41:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: DIY Equipment Racks In-Reply-To: <20021230030644.GB29451@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20021230030644.GB29451@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212300339110.739-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> On Sun, 29 Dec 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > While thinking about racks to use for mounting my PDP-11/44 components, > as well as other equipment from test equipment to audio and synth > equipment, something just occured to me: why bother with hunting down > steel racks when some 2x4s and lag bolts may suffice just as well? I > was thinking that one can just run 2x4s from the basement floor up to > the heavy wooden rafters, attach them to the rafters, and then add > horizontal supports at the bottom to space the vertical 2x4s apart > properly. Any thoughts on this? I guess the museum-type equipment > purists won't like the idea, but it would be a cheap and functional > solution for many of us. :-) Has anyone else here tried this? That sounds kinda like a relay rack to me :) If you are handy with woodworking, it isn't too hard to create your own studio racks for your audio equipment. What you are looking for are the metal rails that run vertically that the equipment bolts to. Several companies make and sell these. One place that comes immediately to mind is: [http://www.hometech.com/rack/rack.html]. That page shows rails available from 3U up to 27U. If you wanted an angled overhead type rack for certain equipment, these rails would also work very well. > Lastly, has anyone on this list tried retrofitting non-rack-mount > equipment into racks? E.g., welding (or "JB Weld"ing) rack-mount tabs > onto systems like PCs and Kaypros, as well as making rack-mountable > shelves to hold the Macintoshes, etc.? Just trying to think of ways to > save space. Stacking system on top of system, helter skelter, as > systems are added, tends to result in rather annoying, space hogging, > piles of systems after a while, making some systems difficult to get to > at times. I'd just recommend rack-mount shelves. JB Weld (basically a high temp epoxy) wouldn't likely hold the weight of most gear, though it might be possible to bolt rack slides to some things. -Toth From rschaefe at gcfn.org Mon Dec 30 05:33:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: DIY Equipment Racks References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212292115120.8951-100000@george.home.org> Message-ID: <003401c2aff7$b2e57400$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc Shipley" <doc@mdrconsult.com> To: <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 10:23 PM Subject: Re: DIY Equipment Racks > On Sun, 29 Dec 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > > Well, it sounds workable, but it's honestly probably more expensive > than buying a used rack. My boss just bought one, a 72"x19" with 2 PDU > bars, front and rear doors, and 8 shelves, for $85. > One of the VERY nice features of a fully enclosed rack, wood or steel, > is the noise reduction. We had 4 PCs, a Cisco router, a 43P RS/6000, > and my Ultra1 going in there. Now everything but the Cisco is in the > rack, and the noise level has been cut by at least half. We > rubber-glued thin, dense foam inside the side panels and doors (being > careful not to restrict airflow). You can find them cheaper than that even. I picked up an old statmux locally for $20. Had to strip the guts out, but it had something like 25 6502s running it, along with some oddball EPROMs and other interesting chips. I passed them along to someone who could put them to use, and now I have a nice 72" inclosed rack with front & back doors, removable sides, and two fans in the top, one of which doesn't spin up. A **LOT** cheaper than a new rack! > > Machine room/office is much neater, much cooler, since we stuck the > rack under the return-air duct, and *much* quieter. Alas, the VAX 6320 and DEC 3000 800 won't fit in the rack, so the basement is never going to be truely quiet without a power loss. ;) > > > Doc Bob From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Dec 30 06:33:00 2002 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: WWII fire control 'computers' Message-ID: <20021230123526.3985.qmail@web21107.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, >> Does anyone know anything about the mechanical fire control computers >> as used in second world war for UK coastal defence batteries? > > You might try posting this question to the guys that know, on the > coastal-defense mail list (yes, there is a list for geeks of all kinds). > I can post the question to the list, if you wish. hey, that'd be much appreciated if you can forward my posting on my behalf. It's probably worth me joining at some point anyway - I've visited most of the coastal defence sites in the UK, but those have all been stripped of nearly all metal. The site in New Zealand seems quite unique just because it is largely intact - power generation and hydraulics are all still present and we hope to have engine room systems running again one day. The 9.2" guns went for scrap years ago, but there are still a few examples left around the world. Having a gun moving around on the hillside under its own power would be pretty cool! > Getting any information or artifacts will be very difficult - about as > close to impossible as you can get. The reason for this is post-war, the > fire control computers were of little use (they do exactly one function) and > have large scrap values (for example, a Mk IV TDC has about a _pound_ of > gold inside). When the mechanisms were scrapped, the manuals were simply > thrown away. that is a lot of gold! A lot of other documentation relating to the site has survived in city archives, including manuals, site plans, the fortress record book etc. but for some reason information relating to the fire control systems vanished - almost as though someone had a paranoia attack and purposely destroyed it. There's a rumour that there is one photo of the computer somewhere - I'm trying to trace its wherabouts at the moment. >> It's possible that the unit shared a lot of commonality with ship-based >> systems, in some cut-down form or other, but I haven't yet located anyone >> who can confirm this. > > Possibly. They probably would be cut down, as there are less variables to > deal with - not being on a ship means that you can eliminate the stable > element and gyrocompass inputs. yes, that's what I figured. Logically there are common elements between the systems, and probably enough to justify sharing of parts. Of course, whether this sort of foresight happened or whether the Army took the Navy's equipment and simply trimmed redundant functionality out is debatable! They may well have been completely different systems... (the 9.2" guns were ex-navy and I believe the hydraulic systems were shared too, but of course that doesn't mean to say that fire control systems were at all related) > I am very interested in these things (I think the fire control collection > now outweighs the computer collection). literally, I imagine - those mechanical systems must be pretty heavy :-) cheers Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Dec 30 06:44:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: DIY Equipment Racks In-Reply-To: "R. D. Davis" <rdd@rddavis.org> "DIY Equipment Racks" (Dec 29, 22:06) References: <20021230030644.GB29451@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <10212301246.ZM18981@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 29, 22:06, R. D. Davis wrote: > While thinking about racks to use for mounting my PDP-11/44 > components, as well as other equipment from test equipment to audio > and synth equipment, something just occured to me: why bother with > hunting down steel racks when some 2x4s and lag bolts may suffice just > as well? I was thinking that one can just run 2x4s from the basement > floor up to the heavy wooden rafters, attach them to the rafters, and > then add horizontal supports at the bottom to space the vertical 2x4s > apart properly. Any thoughts on this? I guess the museum-type > equipment purists won't like the idea, but it would be a cheap and > functional solution for many of us. :-) Has anyone else here tried > this? Not exactly this, but in addition to (and adjacent to) my racks, I have some adjustable shelving which uses cantilever brackets, fitted to upright rails that are screwed to the 2"x4" vertical "studs" in the wall. The brackets are 610mm (about 24") long and so the shelves are 750mm (~30") deep. The brackets and rails are Spur "Steel-Lok" type and each pair of brackets is rated to hold 75kg (175lb). I tested their security by climbing up them before I entrusted my precious computers and VR14 to them, so I'm sure a 2x4 frame will hold any reasonable amount of rackmount equipment *providing* you have appropriate fixings. http://www.spurshelving.com/html/tech/steel.htm will show you the stuff I used, I'm sure there's something similar in the States. I used a baby version of the same stuff for shelves on a couple of steel-framed trolleys. HOWEVER, the real utility of a rack is that you can mount things on rails and slide them out whilst they're still connected; and that you can adjust the position of things as more interesting equipment comes along (thanks, James! [1]). In fact, it's very hard to work on some things unless you can slide them out part-way, like my PDP-8/E (which is slightly poorly ATM, but that's another story) or most of my PDP-11s. More than that, it's practically impossible to *use* certain things unless you can slide them out -- you need to slide an RL01/RL02 halfway out of the rack to change the disk pack, for example. Those b***s are heavy, and you really do want to use the proper rails. With the ball-bearing rails, changing an RL02 pack is an operation you can do without thinking about it; without, it becomes a "put it off until next week" job. The first catch is that rails and other (static) rackmount equipment are intended to fit precisely-spaced holes. Despite what some people think, they're neither random nor equally spaced (forgive me if you know this). They're in groups of three with one hole in the centre and one each 5/8" above and below, leaving 1/4" between the centre of the upper (or lower) hole and the start of the next U. In other words, the spacing goes 5/8", 5/8", 1/2", 5/8", 5/8", 1/2", ... and 1 rack unit (1U) is 1_3/4". American-style racks (RETMA?) use round holes, sized to be a good clearance for No.10 machine screws (or M5 m/screws) and are used with Tinnerman nuts. European racks use square holes, to which you fit cage nuts (usually M6 but sometimes M5), and the centre hole of each 1U group has, by convention, a little notch at the side, so it's easy to see where the centre of each 1U space is. For that reason alone, it would be much easier to buy the upright flanges which have the holes pre-punched in the right places. They look like overgrown Dexion angle, or steel angle with a lot of holes (front face) and slots (side, for mounting to the uprights). You can get them here in sizes from 3U to 48U (common sizes are 3U, 6U, 12U, 18U, 32U, 42U, 48U). Price depends on quality (ie, strength) but they're not expensive. I bought a 24U strip and cut it up for my "hub of the universe" wiring rack. That's a 14" deep 6U high frame with sides of 1" square steel tube and flat-strip cross members at the back, mounted over the workshop door. It holds my main Ethernet switch, and several patch panels for UTP, coax, and fibre. Another reason to buy the proper uprights is that some rails, notably those for an RX02, PDP-8/E, and various other devices, fit to the back surface of the flange, not the front (as most "static" equipment does). If your wooden uprights are the right distance apart to directly fit the sort of equipment that has mounting "ears", ie screwing the ears straight into the front of the wood, you'll never be able to fit most types of slide rails, unless you do a bit of woodwork to provide a rebate. Ditto for most shelves, both static and sliding, except cantilever shelves (which fit from the front surface only, but cost more than ordinary ones). > Lastly, has anyone on this list tried retrofitting non-rack-mount > equipment into racks? E.g., welding (or "JB Weld"ing) rack-mount tabs > onto systems like PCs and Kaypros, as well as making rack-mountable > shelves to hold the Macintoshes, etc.? Rackmount shelves are good for that -- just make sure you have enough, or you end up with systems on top of each other again. Cantilever shelves are particularly good because you can always get at the mounting screws, which are only on the front. Conventional shelves are much cheaper but you need to be able to get your hand and screwdriver into the gap between the shelves to reach the screws on the underside of the shelf you're moving -- oh, and BTW they screw into the sides, which will be a little awkward with big woodscrews. We use lots of rackmount shelves at work, for PCs (mostly running Linux) and Sparcs that weren't designed to rackmount. Otherwise, just screw a bracket onto each side of the case. The screws needn't be very large, as most of the forces are in shear. Self-tapping screws will do for most metal cases, machine screws with washers and nuts on the inside for plastic. I wouldn't weld things. Cases are thin, usually zinc plated (nasty fumes), and hard to weld. I certainly wouldn't use epoxy or anything like that. If you ever want to remove the brackets, two or three small holes in each side is much better than the mess a broken weld or epoxy will leave. A few other thoughts: As someone else pointed out, having the side panels makes a big difference to the sound level. It might also make a big difference to the airflow, though, which is why proper racks have fans of their own, normally in the top :-) It's obvious that the width between the uprights is important, but just in case you're wondering, the depth is not (much). A lot of things are front-fixing-only, and most rails are adjustable. Anyway, most flanges have slots rather than holes for mounting, so some adjustment is possible. I can only think of two items where the exact depth matters: my SGI Origin 2000 (which has two slightly superfluous brackets at the back), and an RL01/2 drive, where the shipping bracket is supposed to be fitted to the rear flange (which therefore has to be a particular distance from the front flange). Nevertheless, there are standard depths, like 600mm, 800mm, and 950mm (in Europe) but they're more a matter of convenience. FYI, a standard DEC rack measures exactly 25" from front surface of front flange to back surface of back flange. To be honest, I think you'd be better off finding a secondhand rack. It will already have all the right holes, possibly the side panels, and if it has casters, it might be more versatile than a fixed frame. Providing the casters are strong enough to take the total weight (ie not intended to be supplemented or replaced by jacking-screw feet) it's useful to be able to move a rack a small amount from time to time. Don't forget you need access to the back as well as the front! [1] James is a list member who has occasionally helped me shuffle a PDP-11/40 up and down a rack. No need to remove the power supply if he's around :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jss at subatomix.com Mon Dec 30 07:00:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: Can't figure out CA and CB ports on 6522 In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212292244300.3917-100000@siconic.com> References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212292244300.3917-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <185541812905.20021230070256@subatomix.com> On Monday, December 30, 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > I'm having a heck of a time figuring out how to use the CA and CB ports on > the 6522 as inputs. From the documentation I have, it seems the CA port > can be used for one TTL input, and CB can be used as two. This is probably incorrect for your situation, and remember, I ain't no hardware guy yet. I wrote some firmware for an 8051 clone, a Dallas DS80C520 (IIRC). It had some pins that could be used as input or output. When using them for input, it was necessary to write a 1 to the pins before reading them. I know, I know, this is a totally different chip, but just maybe your situation is similar. The reason for the write had something to do with the way the I/O pins were built, electrically. -- Jeffrey Sharp From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Dec 30 07:23:01 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: DIY Equipment Racks References: <20021230030644.GB29451@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3E10565E.41E08495@ccp.com> "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > While thinking about racks to use for mounting my PDP-11/44 > components, as well as other equipment from test equipment to audio > and synth equipment, something just occured to me: why bother with > hunting down steel racks when some 2x4s and lag bolts may suffice just > as well? I was thinking that one can just run 2x4s from the basement > floor up to the heavy wooden rafters, attach them to the rafters, and > then add horizontal supports at the bottom to space the vertical 2x4s > apart properly. Any thoughts on this? I guess the museum-type > equipment purists won't like the idea, but it would be a cheap and > functional solution for many of us. :-) Has anyone else here tried > this? It would work but very tacky, and not readily changeable without really tearing up the lumber. I do know that L iron is available with tapped/untapped RETMA/IEC holes in standard spacing. I'd go that route. Hamfests might be a source for racks, but less and less of that is appearing anymore due to the fact most hams carry their radios on the hip rather than rack-mounting them. Last rack cabinet I bought was $2 (ex-school PA system). I did see a nice NEW extruded aluminum open channel 7' rack for $100 at a hamfest. Most likely you'll see smaller cabinets, but you never know unless you go to as many as possible. You might check with local radio/television stations and see if they have some older racks around. Many of those are too shallow for the new equipment, or they are surplus from an old location. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Dec 30 07:35:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: Can't figure out CA and CB ports on 6522 In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212292244300.3917-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <02d301c2b008$9be2bc70$020010ac@k4jcw> This looks pretty straight forward, from what I can tell. To use the ports as inputs, you need to set DDRA and/or DDRB to 0. In the ACR, you need to decide if you want the IRA and IRB registers to either be whatever they are when you read them (bits 1 & 0 == 0), or if you want whatever is on the pins to be latched on a clock edge on CA1 or CB1 (bits 1 & 0 == 1). By my reading, you can setup all pins as inputs, all as outputs, or any mixture. The inputs attributes as set by the DDR and the IR registers will apply to all pins that are inputs, and the reset subject to the output rules. The 6522 is at some base address in memory, say $C800, and occupies 16 sequential addresses. That part I'm pretty sure you already know. Here's a link to some .tif scans from Rockwell. I couldn't find anything better in my few minutes of searching. http://bbc.nvg.org/doc/datasheets/R6522_r9.zip --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Sellam Ismail > Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 01:46 > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > Subject: Can't figure out CA and CB ports on 6522 > > > > I'm having a heck of a time figuring out how to use the CA > and CB ports on > the 6522 as inputs. From the documentation I have, it seems > the CA port > can be used for one TTL input, and CB can be used as two. > > But how do you set them up as such? The documentation is confusing. > > I'll sleep on it and see if either a) I wake up refreshed and > figure it > out or b) wake up and find a nice helpful message waiting here ;) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Dec 30 07:44:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing In-Reply-To: Sellam Ismail <foo@siconic.com> "M200 interfacing" (Dec 28, 19:53) References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212281939060.32715-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <10212301347.ZM19036@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 28, 19:53, Sellam Ismail wrote: > The next step is to wire in the data signals and start to read data. The > VIA gives me two 16-bit ports and an additional 4-bit port. That's an odd VIA. You mean a single 6522, right? It has two bidirectional 8-bit ports, each of which has 2 associated handshake lines. Each of the bidirection lines can be set to be an input or an output, so it might seem like you have 16 possible inputs and 16 possible outputs -- but you only have 16 connections (plus 4 handshake). > Anyway, I'm in the process of figuring it out. Everything on the card is > accessed through it's I/O addresses, being C080 + (slot * 16). So I have > it in slot 4 which makes all it's I/O available at C0C0-C0CF. I've found > the timer locations and some 16-bit registers. The only 16-bit parts of a 6522 are the timers. Timer 1 is a 16-bit counter accessed as two adjacent 8-bit bytes, and two 8-bit latches (used to reload it when it counts down to zero). Timer 2 is a 16-bit counter accessed as two adjacent 8-bit bytes, without latches (so useful only for counting pulses, or as a one-shot interval timer). > I also found by accident a > timer that generates a RESET interrupt when it elapses--at least that's > the theory I'm going under since the Apple reset itself after I was > playing with the registers. I also believe I remember there being this > feature on the 6522, but I haven't had a chance to read that part of the > docs yet. A 6522 doesn't have any pin that would normally go to the RESET line, but it does have an interrupt output. If you set something in register 14 (the Interrupt Enable Register) and a timer timed out, or you created a transition on one of the handshake lines, the 6522 would generate an interrupt. The interrupts on a standard Apple ][, ][+ or //e aren't used -- it does all normal operations by polling, which is why it's so slow for some things -- and an interrupt causes the processor to jump to a location in the ROM. Just where depends on the ROM, but in an original Monitor ROM or an Autostart ROM, it ends up either going directly to the same routine as BRK does (which will perform the equivalent of a soft reset) or jumps through a vector which you're supposed to set up first. If you've not preset that, I think it ends up in the BRK routine (it certainly does in an Autostart ROM). > One thing I'd like to investigate after I'm done with this is to see if > there are enough inputs on the Apple itself to forgo the necessity of the > 6522. The Game I/O port has 7 inputs, if you count the 4 joystick inputs > that can be used as simple TTL inputs, plus the 3 push-button inputs. The > other inputs would be the keyboard. It has 10 Y-inputs and 6 X-inputs, > plus SHIFT and CONTROL. Er, not exactly. As Tony pointed out, the keyboard includes a decoder (called a ROM in the manual), and the key matrix is decoded by scanning. Either the X or Y lines are outputs (the manual doesn't say which, but IIRC it's the Y lines). Only SHIFT, CTRL, and SHIFT LOCK are plain inputs, and they only serve to modify the 7-bit code sent to the motherboard. > If so, then there should be enough combinations of inputs on the keyboard > port to allow the data signals to go through that, and then the GAME I/O > has just enough inputs to cover all the status signals (HOPPER CHECK, > MOTION CHECK, ERROR, BUSY, INDEX MARK, and READY). I would just use the 6522. You need 12 data, plus 6 status listed above. Is there also a strobe of some sort (or is that READY?)? 8 lines on port A, plus 4 on port B for the data, CA1 for the READY or strobe, and some mixture of the remaining 4 data lines and the other three handshake lines should do it. Don't bother with interrupts to start with. Leave the IER all zeros, and just poll the IFR to look for the flag for CA1. Or just poll it looking for a negative number (which means bit 7 is set, which means one of the other flags is also set). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jim at jkearney.com Mon Dec 30 09:32:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: Can't figure out CA and CB ports on 6522 References: <02d301c2b008$9be2bc70$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <038301c2b018$e694f2a0$1301090a@xpace.net> > The 6522 is at some base address in memory, say $C800, and occupies 16 > sequential addresses. That part I'm pretty sure you already know. Here's a > link to some .tif scans from Rockwell. I couldn't find anything better in > my few minutes of searching. http://bbc.nvg.org/doc/datasheets/R6522_r9.zip There are scanned datasheets for most all the 6522 versions at http://www.6502.org/datasheets/datasheets.htm From foo at siconic.com Mon Dec 30 10:02:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing In-Reply-To: <10212301347.ZM19036@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212300755350.5822-100000@siconic.com> On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > On Dec 28, 19:53, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > The next step is to wire in the data signals and start to read data. The > > VIA gives me two 16-bit ports and an additional 4-bit port. > > That's an odd VIA. You mean a single 6522, right? It has two > bidirectional 8-bit ports, each of which has 2 associated handshake lines. > Each of the bidirection lines can be set to be an input or an output, so > it might seem like you have 16 possible inputs and 16 possible outputs -- > but you only have 16 connections (plus 4 handshake). Sorry, it was a typo. I meant two 8-bit ports. > should do it. Don't bother with interrupts to start with. Leave the IER > all zeros, and just poll the IFR to look for the flag for CA1. Or just > poll it looking for a negative number (which means bit 7 is set, which > means one of the other flags is also set). This is starting to make sense. But alll the documenation I've read so far indicates that the function of the CA and CB lines is controlled by the PCR (Peripheral Control Register). I'll go poke a 0 into the IER and then see if I can get bits in the IFR to toggle by putting +5 on the CA1, CA2, CB1 or CB2 pins. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Dec 30 12:05:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: DIY Equipment Racks References: <20021230041049.29702.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E108AF7.6050801@jetnet.ab.ca> Loboyko Steve wrote: > I'm very happy with the one I made out of oak plywood. > Expensive, but looks nice in the house. My future geek > equipment will be made this way. > > But, "real" rack assemblies have fans, overtemp > alarms/shutoffs, etc, and I would hate to leave stuff > on unattended without these items. Lets not forget wheels. Ben. From foo at siconic.com Mon Dec 30 12:30:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: 6522 weirdity Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212301017030.6097-100000@siconic.com> Ok, I've kinda figured out the control lines on the 6522. First of all, I've got them triggering a flag in the IFR whenever there is a state change on any control pin from a ground to either floating or +5V. For example, CB1 is plugged into ground. I reset the IFR (so no flags are set). I remove the ground from CB1. CB1's flag in the IFR gets set. I reset that flag. If I plug CB1 into +5V, I get no flag. If I unplug CB1 from +5V, I get no flag. If I plug CB1 back into ground, I get a flag. Why are the flags being set only when one of the control lines no longer senses ground? I tried playing with the PCR to see if setting whether the control pins are active positive edge or active negative edge changes this behavior but it doesn't. I can work with this the way it is: I'm basically tracking state changes on the control pins, which is fine for my purposes since the reader will go from TTL false to TTL true if there is an error, and back to TTL false when the error gets cleared. But I want to know how the behavior of the control lines is set. Now, I seem to have a problem with CA1. If I have CA1 connected to ground, it's stable. As soon as I remove it from ground and it's floating, CA1's state starts to fluctuate wildly for a little over 2 seconds. It's flag in the IFR keeps triggering over and over. If, right after I remove it from ground and it starts fluctuation, I plug it back into ground, it stabalizes (it stops changing states). As soon as I remove it again, it fluctuates wildly. Is CA1 tied to one of the 16-bit timers? It sure seems like it. The docs say something about being able to make one of the control lines trigger off a timer. Am I triggering the shift register somehow? What in tarnations is going on? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mross666 at hotmail.com Mon Dec 30 12:39:24 2002 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: WWII fire control 'computers' Message-ID: <F54C93oLgwUcpucTAMf0003eb50@hotmail.com> Suggest you head over to usenet and ask on uk.rec.subterranea - the folks there are experts on most things concering British bunkers... Mike (the CoreStore is more than just ancient computers - see http://www.corestore.org/sub.htm ) http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Dec 30 12:41:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: DIY Equipment Racks In-Reply-To: <3E108AF7.6050801@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212301243390.16412-100000@george.home.org> On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > Loboyko Steve wrote: > > I'm very happy with the one I made out of oak plywood. > > Expensive, but looks nice in the house. My future geek > > equipment will be made this way. > > > > But, "real" rack assemblies have fans, overtemp > > alarms/shutoffs, etc, and I would hate to leave stuff > > on unattended without these items. > > Lets not forget wheels. > Ben. Amen, brother! Wheels rule. Doc From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Dec 30 12:55:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: 6522 weirdity In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212301017030.6097-100000@siconic.com> References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212301017030.6097-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212301344190.26655@panix2.panix.com> On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Now, I seem to have a problem with CA1. If I have CA1 connected to > ground, it's stable. As soon as I remove it from ground and it's > floating, CA1's state starts to fluctuate wildly for a little over 2 > seconds. Try tieing it to +5 via a 10K resistor, so it's either solidly a 0 or solidly a 1. Many digital chips get cranky when their pins 'float'. Sounds like what's going on. Vide Lancaster - TTL and CMOS Cookbooks for no-bs info on interfacing. Cheers John From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Dec 30 13:09:25 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing In-Reply-To: Sellam Ismail <foo@siconic.com> "Re: M200 interfacing" (Dec 30, 8:02) References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212300755350.5822-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <10212301859.ZM19700@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 30, 8:02, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > > That's an odd VIA. You mean a single 6522, right? > Sorry, it was a typo. I meant two 8-bit ports. Ah, I suspected it might be. > This is starting to make sense. > > But alll the documenation I've read so far indicates that the function of > the CA and CB lines is controlled by the PCR (Peripheral Control > Register). I'll go poke a 0 into the IER and then see if I can get bits > in the IFR to toggle by putting +5 on the CA1, CA2, CB1 or CB2 pins. The easiest way to set it up to play with, is first to pull each of CA1, CA2, CB1, and CB2 to +5V through four suitable resistors (anything from 1k to 100k will do for this). Then write 0x00 into the PCR, which makes the four handshake lines operate as independant inputs, with negative edge triggering. Write 0x7F into the IER to disable all the interrupts (so the Apple doesn't do any more resets), and 0x7F into the IFR to make sure it's cleared. Then keep polling the IFR while you ground one or more of the handshake pins. Look for any non-zero value. The relevant bits in the IFR should become set, according to which line(s) you ground. Note that this won't ever set bit 7 (MSB) of the IFR, because that only happens if interrupts are enabled, unfortunately. Also remember you have to manually clear the flags once they're set. If you want to use positive-going edges instead of negative-going, use pull-down resistors (don't rely on an unconnected input being low, it might float to any value) and set 0x55 in the PCR. If you are keen to use bit 7 in the IFR as a flag indicating "any input", stick an RTI instruction on the end of your code, and store the address of that RTI at IRQLOC ($03FE) first. That will prevent the interrupts upsetting the Apple. Alternatively, have the Apple execute an SEI instruction (0x78, sets the IRQ mask in the status register, to disable interrupts). Then write 0x64 into the IER to disable all the interrupts except from the handshake lines, and then write 0x9B into the IER to ensure all the handshake interrupts really are enabled (the default state, after a chip reset, is all disabled). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From noahfox at mac.com Mon Dec 30 13:10:18 2002 From: noahfox at mac.com (Noah Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 Message-ID: <350796.1041264268887.JavaMail.noahfox@mac.com> To whom it may concern, I am interested in buying or renting the Amstrad PPC640 for a movie called ETERNAL SUNSHINE OF THE SPOTLESS MIND Staring Jim Carrey and Kate Winslet. The movie tells the story of a couple who have elected to rid themselves of their memories of on another by a machine. Noah Fox From t.myers at protasis.co.uk Mon Dec 30 13:10:51 2002 From: t.myers at protasis.co.uk (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: Recovering from disk failure - attn Adrian Vickers and Jim Austin Message-ID: <000d01c2b021$1676d0d0$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> Hi, I've just had my disk holding my main mailbox fail on me (Yet another Fujitsu MPG fails, that's three in as many months.) Could Adrian and Jim please get back in touch with me, I've lost everything :'( Tim From tim.myers at sunplan.com Mon Dec 30 13:11:23 2002 From: tim.myers at sunplan.com (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: Selling my Transputer collection. Message-ID: <000e01c2b021$9af2adc0$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> A shameless plug for my Transputer collection that's now for sale on Ebay - hope nobody minds :) http://www.andale.com/gallery?cid=10192480&mid=1 Tim. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Dec 30 13:13:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: 6522 weirdity In-Reply-To: Sellam Ismail <foo@siconic.com> "6522 weirdity" (Dec 30, 10:30) References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212301017030.6097-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <10212301916.ZM19740@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 30, 10:30, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Ok, I've kinda figured out the control lines on the 6522. > > First of all, I've got them triggering a flag in the IFR whenever there > is a state change on any control pin from a ground to either floating or > +5V. > > For example, CB1 is plugged into ground. I reset the IFR (so no flags > are set). I remove the ground from CB1. CB1's flag in the IFR gets set. > I reset that flag. If I plug CB1 into +5V, I get no flag. If I unplug > CB1 from +5V, I get no flag. If I plug CB1 back into ground, I get a > flag. You're sensing noise. The inputs are not level-sensitive, they're edge-triggered. If you have the PCR set to zero (which is the default after a reset), CB1's flag will set whenever CB1 sees a falling edge. You're probably generating small noise spikes when you remove the ground (this is a bit like key bounce) or picking up stray current (the inside of an Apple is a pretty noisy place, electrically speaking). This would explain why the flag gets set when you initially remove the ground from CB1, and then again when you ground it again. Without the noise, it wouldn't set the flag when you remove the ground, only when you restore it. > Why are the flags being set only when one of the control lines no longer > senses ground? I tried playing with the PCR to see if setting whether the > control pins are active positive edge or active negative edge changes this > behavior but it doesn't. Actually it does, but I bet you've not got pullups or pulldowns on the pins, and you're seeing noise. These pins are fairly high impedance. And because the inputs are edge-sensitive, the flag gets set not just because it's low (otherwise it would get set if it were low when you configure it, and you'd not be able to clear the flag) but because it *changes state* to become low. > I can work with this the way it is: I'm > basically tracking state changes on the control pins, which is fine for > my purposes since the reader will go from TTL false to TTL true if there > is an error, and back to TTL false when the error gets cleared. But I > want to know how the behavior of the control lines is set. See my post from a few minutes ago. > Now, I seem to have a problem with CA1. If I have CA1 connected to > ground, it's stable. As soon as I remove it from ground and it's > floating, CA1's state starts to fluctuate wildly for a little over 2 > seconds. It's flag in the IFR keeps triggering over and over. If, right > after I remove it from ground and it starts fluctuation, I plug it back > into ground, it stabalizes (it stops changing states). As soon as I > remove it again, it fluctuates wildly. Noise. Floating inputs are A Bad Thing. > Is CA1 tied to one of the 16-bit timers? It sure seems like it. The docs > say something about being able to make one of the control lines trigger > off a timer. Am I triggering the shift register somehow? > > What in tarnations is going on? Did I mention noise? :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Dec 30 13:22:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: Selling my Transputer collection. In-Reply-To: <000e01c2b021$9af2adc0$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> References: <000e01c2b021$9af2adc0$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212301422320.2825@panix2.panix.com> Except that I can't see your pix, bcause some plugin I have no intention of downloading seems to be a prerequisite.... lame-o dude! Cool username, tho..... Cheerz John From computermuseum at pandora.be Mon Dec 30 13:27:01 2002 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: Selling my Transputer collection. In-Reply-To: <000e01c2b021$9af2adc0$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> Message-ID: <NEBBIIKKPJIBINKJOILLAEMFCIAA.computermuseum@pandora.be> Do you have an Atari ATW800 for sale also. I might be extremely interested! Michel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens Tim Myers Verzonden: maandag 30 december 2002 17:36 Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: Selling my Transputer collection. A shameless plug for my Transputer collection that's now for sale on Ebay - hope nobody minds :) http://www.andale.com/gallery?cid=10192480&mid=1 Tim. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Dec 30 13:28:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: 6522 weirdity In-Reply-To: John Lawson <jpl15@panix.com> "Re: 6522 weirdity" (Dec 30, 13:57) References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212301017030.6097-100000@siconic.com> <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212301344190.26655@panix2.panix.com> Message-ID: <10212301930.ZM19764@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 30, 13:57, John Lawson wrote: > On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > Now, I seem to have a problem with CA1. If I have CA1 connected to > > ground, it's stable. As soon as I remove it from ground and it's > > floating, CA1's state starts to fluctuate wildly for a little over 2 > > seconds. > > Try tieing it to +5 via a 10K resistor, so it's either solidly a 0 or > solidly a 1. Many digital chips get cranky when their pins 'float'. Yes. Worst example I came across was a CMOS circuit which was designed by an "expert". It worked on a breadboard, but when transferred to the final PCB it misbehaved and eventually died of "dead chip". It turned out that a couple of unused inputs were left unconnected and floating. On the breadboard, that wasn't a problem, because it was dirty and there was enough leakage (a hundred megohms or so) to keep them in a reasonable and constant state. But the PCB was waterproofed, and they really did float, eventually leading to excess dissipation in the chip, and destruction of one of the gates. The reason is that a CMOS gate is basically two MOS transistor switches, one connecting the output to the power rail, and the other connecting it to ground. If the input floats halfway between logic levels, both turn on (at least, in older devices), and the current destroys one of the MOS transistors. Another example was a TTL circuit that ran fine at low to medium frequencies, but not at several megahertz. Floating input again; that sort of thing has a drastic effect on the speed of the gate. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 30 13:33:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: DIY Equipment Racks In-Reply-To: <003401c2aff7$b2e57400$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <20021230193556.60335.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Robert F. Schaefer" <rschaefe@gcfn.org> wrote: > I picked up an old statmux locally for $20. Had to strip > the guts out... I passed them along to someone who could put > them to use... Thanks again, Bob! Some of those parts are going right to the SBC-6120. > ...and now I have a nice 72" inclosed rack with front & back doors, > removable sides, and two fans in the top... Yep. Sweet rack. I have a quantity of rackage, about 90% DEC... over a dozen 72" racks, half-a-dozen 60" racks full of SI disk and tape, at least half-a-dozen 42" racks full of PDP-11s and RL02s, and 4 or 5 knee-high racks with formica tops (PDP-11/03 + RX01). I have to echo the sentiments of those recommending real racks. I don't even like odd-ball racks because it's too hard to fit DEC rails into them (I have this one that came with an -8/L + BM08 + PC04 that's a real pain, but it doesn't have DEC rails for anything but the PC04 which is front-mount only). If you intend to rack a DEC CPU and/or DEC disks, I have to recommend DEC racks. They use the round unthreaded holes and "clip nuts" that are, ISTR, 10-24 thread. Rails for the RA81/RA82 drives, for example, use nut plates rather than clip nuts, which is all the more reason not to use prethreaded racks (which are, OTOH, *great* for modern front-mount 1U hardware). Depends on what you intend to rack - PC stuff/routers/switches can go in just about anything. DEC stuff fits best in DEC racks. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Dec 30 13:36:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 In-Reply-To: <350796.1041264268887.JavaMail.noahfox@mac.com> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212301136370.1025-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> Would somebody legitimately connected with the props work for a MAJOR Hollywood movie, be likely to know the spellings of the last names of the cast? Or is this a home movie that actually DOES star Carrey and Winslet? On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, Noah Fox wrote: > To whom it may concern, > > I am interested in buying or renting the Amstrad PPC640 for a movie > called ETERNAL SUNSHINE OF THE SPOTLESS MIND Staring Jim Carrey and > Kate Winslet. The movie tells the story of a couple who have elected > to rid themselves of their memories of on another by a machine. > > Noah Fox From at258 at osfn.org Mon Dec 30 13:46:01 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: DIY Equipment Racks In-Reply-To: <3E10565E.41E08495@ccp.com> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021230144736.25497C-100000@osfn.org> RD, I think we will be having a surplus wide DEC rack this coming month. It could be yours for the taking. From computermuseum at pandora.be Mon Dec 30 13:52:00 2002 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 In-Reply-To: <350796.1041264268887.JavaMail.noahfox@mac.com> Message-ID: <NEBBIIKKPJIBINKJOILLCEMGCIAA.computermuseum@pandora.be> Hi, I've got one but I'm located in Belgium-Europe. Tension is 220 Volts, 50 Hz ! Best regards, Michel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens Noah Fox Verzonden: maandag 30 december 2002 17:04 Aan: cctech@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: Amstrad PPC640 To whom it may concern, I am interested in buying or renting the Amstrad PPC640 for a movie called ETERNAL SUNSHINE OF THE SPOTLESS MIND Staring Jim Carrey and Kate Winslet. The movie tells the story of a couple who have elected to rid themselves of their memories of on another by a machine. Noah Fox From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Dec 30 14:23:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212301136370.1025-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212301420250.16773-100000@george.home.org> On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Would somebody legitimately connected with the props work for a MAJOR > Hollywood movie, be likely to know the spellings of the last names of the > cast? Quite possibly not... Correct spelling seems to be the exclusive preference of BOFHs and Codgers nowadays. In any case, I'd be looking for references, and a darned healthy security deposit, before I loaned or leased my gear to anybody. Doc From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Dec 30 14:36:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212301420250.16773-100000@george.home.org> References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212301420250.16773-100000@george.home.org> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212301529020.2825@panix2.panix.com> The movie industry magazine Daily Variety has, every Thursday, a complete list of all films known to be in current production. Any film of sufficient stature to have Kate Winslet in it will most likely be listed there.... though it is not infallible. Most large bookstalls and news outlets in major cities carry DV and the Hollywood Reporter. It shouldn't be too hard to verify. And usually prop people have their famous 'notebooks', as well as more than a dozen industry-specific publications, just for this purpose. And most of the time they'd be a bit reticent to name the movie and the principal talent right off the bat.... I thought this guy's post was a bit naive, at the least. Usually they represent themselves as working for such-and-such Production Company - sometimes you dont' find out the name of the movie until much later, after the gear has been returned. From having been in the movie business for 15 years, and from having worked, prior to that, in two large Surplus companies who relied heavily on prop rental, I never dealt with anyone who came off as Mr. Fox does. YMMV Cheers John From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Dec 30 15:09:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing In-Reply-To: <200212291823.gBTINbdL045712@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0212301309280.13832-100000@lanshark.lmi.net> While there is certainly no need or reason to want to read a card punched into a picture of a hand giving the finger, ... Don't forget how significant a part of the culture of the history of computers is contained in all of those stupid line printer graphic pictures of Snoopy and of naked women. From Innfogra at aol.com Mon Dec 30 15:26:00 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: Snoopy was Re: M200 interfacing Message-ID: <22.3423996c.2b421490@aol.com> In a message dated 12/30/02 1:13:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, cisin@xenosoft.com writes: > Don't forget how significant a part of the culture of the history of > computers is contained in all of those stupid line printer graphic > pictures of Snoopy ... Ah Yes, The first thing I printed out with my Litton 1251 when I got it into my living room in the mid 80s was a Snoopy calendar. All in punched tape. Nice machine, wished I had kept it. Paul Pierce has a Litton 1231 in his collection for when he gets his museum started in PDX. Punched tape, drum memory, console wi printer, Yum Yum... Paxton Astoria, OR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021230/03f41cf6/attachment.html From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Dec 30 16:07:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: 6522 weirdity Message-ID: <200212302209.OAA09148@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Sellam Ismail" <foo@siconic.com> > >Ok, I've kinda figured out the control lines on the 6522. > >First of all, I've got them triggering a flag in the IFR whenever there >is a state change on any control pin from a ground to either floating or >+5V. > >For example, CB1 is plugged into ground. I reset the IFR (so no flags >are set). I remove the ground from CB1. CB1's flag in the IFR gets set. >I reset that flag. If I plug CB1 into +5V, I get no flag. If I unplug >CB1 from +5V, I get no flag. If I plug CB1 back into ground, I get a >flag. > >Why are the flags being set only when one of the control lines no longer >senses ground? I tried playing with the PCR to see if setting whether the >control pins are active positive edge or active negative edge changes this >behavior but it doesn't. I can work with this the way it is: I'm >basically tracking state changes on the control pins, which is fine for >my purposes since the reader will go from TTL false to TTL true if there >is an error, and back to TTL false when the error gets cleared. But I >want to know how the behavior of the control lines is set. > >Now, I seem to have a problem with CA1. If I have CA1 connected to >ground, it's stable. As soon as I remove it from ground and it's >floating, CA1's state starts to fluctuate wildly for a little over 2 >seconds. It's flag in the IFR keeps triggering over and over. If, right >after I remove it from ground and it starts fluctuation, I plug it back >into ground, it stabalizes (it stops changing states). As soon as I >remove it again, it fluctuates wildly. > >Is CA1 tied to one of the 16-bit timers? It sure seems like it. The docs >say something about being able to make one of the control lines trigger >off a timer. Am I triggering the shift register somehow? Hi What is the weird behavior? I haven't seen anything I wouldn't have expected. Dwight > >What in tarnations is going on? > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From fauradon at frontiernet.net Mon Dec 30 16:14:01 2002 From: fauradon at frontiernet.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 References: <350796.1041264268887.JavaMail.noahfox@mac.com> Message-ID: <001401c2b061$a557b4a0$0264640a@auradon.com> Damn!!! All I have is a PPC 512. so close to make it to fame (and back) Oh well maybe if they film the prequels or something. Francois > To whom it may concern, > > I am interested in buying or renting the Amstrad PPC640 for a movie called ETERNAL SUNSHINE OF THE SPOTLESS MIND Staring Jim Carrey and Kate Winslet. The movie tells the story of a couple who have elected to rid themselves of their memories of on another by a machine. > > Noah Fox > > From owad at applefritter.com Mon Dec 30 16:27:01 2002 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: Snoopy was Re: M200 interfacing In-Reply-To: <22.3423996c.2b421490@aol.com> References: <22.3423996c.2b421490@aol.com> Message-ID: <20021230222925.26554@mail.earthlink.net> >Ah Yes, The first thing I printed out with my Litton 1251 when I got it into >my living room in the mid 80s was a Snoopy calendar. All in punched tape. >Nice machine, wished I had kept it. Anybody have the text for this calendar? Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Dec 30 17:05:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:55 2005 Subject: Restoration Question In-Reply-To: <20021230222925.26554@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <030e01c2b058$345bfe90$020010ac@k4jcw> I have recently acquired a couple of build PC boards that are not solder masked. There is some oxidation, ranging from minimal to mild (mild being the not quite green, but a very hard oxide, as if the tin had reacted with something else). Anyone got any good ideas on cleaning these? I'd like something non-submersible, since one of the boards contains keyswitches. I have plenty of experience cleaning unbuilt boards. Normally, I'd just hit them with some super fine steel wool, or buff them with 20lb paper. And I've repaired boards, but usually to get them working, not to restore their aesthetic appeal. I've considered using a baking soda solution and a stiff bristle brush. This should neutralize any corrisive elements, and the baking soda might be abrasive enough to remove the oxides without damaging the board. It would wash off easily enough with water, and I could protect the switches during that process. Anyone got any ideas or standard procedures for this kind of thing? --JOhn From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 30 17:12:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212291606530.3068-100000@siconic.com> from "Sellam Ismail" at Dec 29, 2 08:41:40 pm Message-ID: <m18T8jq-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3737 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021230/55f1e66d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 30 17:13:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: 6522 weirdity In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212301017030.6097-100000@siconic.com> from "Sellam Ismail" at Dec 30, 2 10:30:36 am Message-ID: <m18T90I-000IzUC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1125 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021230/d06e6a62/attachment.ksh From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Dec 30 17:22:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Restoration Question Message-ID: <200212302324.PAA09196@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "J.C.Wren" <jcwren@jcwren.com> > I have recently acquired a couple of build PC boards that are not solder >masked. There is some oxidation, ranging from minimal to mild (mild being >the not quite green, but a very hard oxide, as if the tin had reacted with >something else). Anyone got any good ideas on cleaning these? I'd like >something non-submersible, since one of the boards contains keyswitches. > > I have plenty of experience cleaning unbuilt boards. Normally, I'd just >hit them with some super fine steel wool, or buff them with 20lb paper. And >I've repaired boards, but usually to get them working, not to restore their >aesthetic appeal. > > I've considered using a baking soda solution and a stiff bristle brush. >This should neutralize any corrisive elements, and the baking soda might be >abrasive enough to remove the oxides without damaging the board. It would >wash off easily enough with water, and I could protect the switches during >that process. Hi Baking soda assumes that it is acid that caused the corrosion. If it was caused by leakage from NiCads, you'll need to use something like vinegar to neutralize it. You might try getting a fiber glass brush from a welding shop. These are sometimes used to clean aluminum. Sometimes it isn't the copper that is oxidized. They put a layer of nickel between the copper and solder on most PC boards. It may be nickel oxides ( bluish green ). If there is any kind of salts ( neutral ) you'll still have electrolytic corrosion. You need to make sure that it is well cleaned before you are done, regardless of what you use. Dwight > > Anyone got any ideas or standard procedures for this kind of thing? > > --JOhn > > > From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Dec 30 17:24:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Restoration Question In-Reply-To: <030e01c2b058$345bfe90$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1021230181328.23297G-100000@osfn.org> > Anyone got any ideas or standard procedures for this kind of thing? Do not use steel wool. When used with copper or aluminum, you will almost certainly get pitting in the future, as the wool leaves very tiny slivers of steel embedded in the metal. Best use brass or bronze wool for copper circuit boards. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From marvin at rain.org Mon Dec 30 17:42:00 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Restoration Question References: <030e01c2b058$345bfe90$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <3E10DA78.A015D1C2@rain.org> My first question is why you want to clean them? Without refusing the boards, you will never get back the shine that comes from a freshly cleaned and fused circuit board. The second best thing might be to rinse the boards in dilute muriatic acid to get at the oxide, and then brush the board with a brass/horsehair brush. There is also something stronger called SolderBrite that is also used to clean the tin-lead on circuit boards after etching and before fusing. You might be able to get some by talking nicely to a nearby circuit board house. "J.C.Wren" wrote: > > I have recently acquired a couple of build PC boards that are not solder > masked. There is some oxidation, ranging from minimal to mild (mild being > the not quite green, but a very hard oxide, as if the tin had reacted with > something else). Anyone got any good ideas on cleaning these? I'd like > something non-submersible, since one of the boards contains keyswitches. > > I have plenty of experience cleaning unbuilt boards. Normally, I'd just > hit them with some super fine steel wool, or buff them with 20lb paper. And > I've repaired boards, but usually to get them working, not to restore their > aesthetic appeal. > > I've considered using a baking soda solution and a stiff bristle brush. > This should neutralize any corrisive elements, and the baking soda might be > abrasive enough to remove the oxides without damaging the board. It would > wash off easily enough with water, and I could protect the switches during > that process. > > Anyone got any ideas or standard procedures for this kind of thing? > > --JOhn From jingber at ix.netcom.com Mon Dec 30 19:45:01 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Lisa jittery screens Message-ID: <1041299237.2279.38.camel@supermicro> I have two different Lisa machines and both have a jittery display (one 1.2AMP PSU, 1 1.8 AMP PSU). I've followed the instructions in the Sun Rem. guide to adjust the power supply output. This works immediately after the adjustment, but the problem gradually comes back over time. I adjusted both machines around the September timeframe and the jitters have back on both machines. I'd like to get both of these machines in top-shape so I can have them running at my New Years party =) Before I go through the adjustment again, is there anything else I should be checking? I've also tried adjusting the V.Hold, but this doesn't seem to make a difference. Maybe I'm not using a precise enough adjustment? Thanks, Jeff From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Dec 30 20:01:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Lisa jittery screens In-Reply-To: <1041299237.2279.38.camel@supermicro> References: <1041299237.2279.38.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212302057370.2773@panix1.panix.com> Oh that's a no-brainer. Obviously: You have a jitterbug. (expects to be thrown bodily off the List at any moment) You have not siad what you mean by 'jitter', and I am not a Lisa owner.. perhaps this is a symptom common to the breed. But I would ask: is it horizontal, vertical, is the raster fragmenting, is the brightness varying? Is it a power supply problem that you are adjusting? If so, when it returns, is it time related? Temperature related? I see you have made the adjustment in Sept., but nothing since then? If it takes three months for the problem to return, I'd be tempted to adjust for the party, then fix it afterward.... Just my two cents, and worth every penny of it. Cheers and Happy New Year! John From jingber at ix.netcom.com Mon Dec 30 20:14:01 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Lisa jittery screens In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212302057370.2773@panix1.panix.com> References: <1041299237.2279.38.camel@supermicro> <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212302057370.2773@panix1.panix.com> Message-ID: <1041300981.2199.45.camel@supermicro> On Mon, 2002-12-30 at 21:04, John Lawson wrote: > You have not siad what you mean by 'jitter', and I am not a Lisa owner.. > perhaps this is a symptom common to the breed. But I would ask: is it > horizontal, vertical, is the raster fragmenting, is the brightness > varying? The "jitter" manifests itself as a very slight (distance-wise) and rapid vertical bouncing. The brightness is very consistent. > Is it a power supply problem that you are adjusting? If so, when it > returns, is it time related? Temperature related? I see you have made the I'm pretty sure it's a power-releated problem as adjusting the supply temporarily fixes the problem. Heat may play a role in this, as the jitter subsides to some degree when the system heats up. The adjustments were made to a "warm" system. > adjustment in Sept., but nothing since then? If it takes three months for > the problem to return, I'd be tempted to adjust for the party, then fix it > afterward.... I'll do this for now, but it shouldn't need to be adjusted so often. It's a rather arduous process. > > Just my two cents, and worth every penny of it. > > > Cheers and Happy New Year! > > John > From jingber at ix.netcom.com Mon Dec 30 20:16:00 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Lisa jittery screens In-Reply-To: <1041300981.2199.45.camel@supermicro> References: <1041299237.2279.38.camel@supermicro> <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212302057370.2773@panix1.panix.com> <1041300981.2199.45.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <1041301093.2279.48.camel@supermicro> I thought I'd add that the adjustments _do_ hold after the systems cool down. I ran the machines off and on during the week after the adjustments without a problem, even during extended on/off cycles - they just don't seem to hold very well over time. Jeff On Mon, 2002-12-30 at 21:16, Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote: > On Mon, 2002-12-30 at 21:04, John Lawson wrote: > > You have not siad what you mean by 'jitter', and I am not a Lisa owner.. > > perhaps this is a symptom common to the breed. But I would ask: is it > > horizontal, vertical, is the raster fragmenting, is the brightness > > varying? > > The "jitter" manifests itself as a very slight (distance-wise) and rapid > vertical bouncing. The brightness is very consistent. > > > Is it a power supply problem that you are adjusting? If so, when it > > returns, is it time related? Temperature related? I see you have made the > > I'm pretty sure it's a power-releated problem as adjusting the supply > temporarily fixes the problem. Heat may play a role in this, as the > jitter subsides to some degree when the system heats up. The > adjustments were made to a "warm" system. > > > adjustment in Sept., but nothing since then? If it takes three months for > > the problem to return, I'd be tempted to adjust for the party, then fix it > > afterward.... > > I'll do this for now, but it shouldn't need to be adjusted so often. > It's a rather arduous process. > > > > > Just my two cents, and worth every penny of it. > > > > > > Cheers and Happy New Year! > > > > John > > > From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Dec 30 20:29:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Lisa jittery screens In-Reply-To: <1041301093.2279.48.camel@supermicro> References: <1041299237.2279.38.camel@supermicro> <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212302057370.2773@panix1.panix.com> <1041300981.2199.45.camel@supermicro> <1041301093.2279.48.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212302125540.2773@panix1.panix.com> On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote: > I thought I'd add that the adjustments _do_ hold after the systems cool > down. I ran the machines off and on during the week after the > adjustments without a problem, even during extended on/off cycles - they > just don't seem to hold very well over time. Well, speaking as an electronics geek, and, as I said, knowing nothing Lisa-specific... all this points to accelerated aging of components either in the power supply, (which I somewhat doubt, for no real 'reason') or in the sweep and drive circuits of the CRT. Many old components have an 'end-of-life' runup, and they exhibit the same symptoms (or meta-symptoms) exactly as you describe. I of course must defer to the Lisa Mechanics out there. I'm basically trying to make amends for that awful pun. Cheers John From classiccmp at crash.com Mon Dec 30 20:44:00 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Anybody need a Telex FC500 keyboard? Message-ID: <200212310246.gBV2k7g04316@io.crash.com> Anybody need an old Telex keyboard? The closest I could come to a model number was "FC 500" from a label on the underside. More or less normal pre-PC QWERTY keyboard, with a bunch of editing keys in the cursor cluster to the right. It's on a discount table at the MicroCenter in Cambridge, MA. If you really want this and will pay shipping, I'd be willing to go back for it. Probably $1.99, but I don't recall seeing it marked. I picked up a couple of Sun type 5c keyboards while I was there, since they have the control key where g*d and nature intended (just left of the "A" key). If you want such a beast for $1.99, check your local MicroCenter (www.microcenter.com) - matching Sun mice for $0.99, optical or mechanical. Dunno where they're coming from, but they've been there since before Thanksgiving. --S. From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Dec 30 22:06:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Lisa jittery screens In-Reply-To: <1041301093.2279.48.camel@supermicro> References: <1041300981.2199.45.camel@supermicro> <1041299237.2279.38.camel@supermicro> <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212302057370.2773@panix1.panix.com> <1041300981.2199.45.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021230201129.058ee430@mail.zipcon.net> At 09:18 PM 12/30/02 -0500, you wrote: >I thought I'd add that the adjustments _do_ hold after the systems cool >down. I ran the machines off and on during the week after the >adjustments without a problem, even during extended on/off cycles - they >just don't seem to hold very well over time. > >Jeff I've had this problem on dec VR-201's, and it was usually due to bad solderjoints getting worse, or failing resistors/caps in the vertical section of the monitor. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 30 23:00:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Anyone have a Western Digital XT-IDE hard card or ROM image? In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0212241608410.67140-100000@crash.cts.com> Message-ID: <20021231050318.40797.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Don Maslin <donm@cts.com> wrote: > Ethan, I have an Acculogic XT-IDE which is purported to be > interchangeable with the WD card that I can send you. The EPROM is > soldered in place, so getting the image is not straight forward. The card arrived today. It is a 100% knockoff of the WD card, the biggest difference (besides the copyright notice) is the WD card has a very smooth solder mask and the Acculogic has a pebbly one. It works like a champ! I also just got my Ming HT-21 handy tester back. The 74LS260 next to the external power connector is fried. The other TTL test fine. Don't know about the EPROM yet... will test that after I extract the application from the WD98024X drive. Kermit (for non-obvious reasons) chose to not preserve files when sent over an NE1000 to my SPARCstation in binary mode, so I will be backing this drive up via 1.44MB floppies and cutting a CD-R. Thanks to all who helped and offered to help, especially Don. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From cb at mythtech.net Mon Dec 30 23:15:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: OS/2 manuals Message-ID: <S.0000103408@mythtech.net> Is there any interest or value in OS/2 manuals? I have a few OS/2 boxes, and I am pretty sure the software is MIA (never had it, I pulled the stuff from a dumpster long ago). I have decided I don't want to continue to take up the shelf space, so I am trying to find out if there is any interest in these kinds of things or should I just send them back to the dumpster. I don't want to go thru the effort of pulling the stuff out and listing it if there is no interest (the last few items I've offered no one wanted, guess I really DO just have junk). I don't currently know what manuals, or to what versions of OS/2 they go (that is the step I am trying to avoid if there is no interest... I just don't feel like having yet another pile of crap under my desk until I get takers or get sick of waiting). And of course, I would LOVE to find out that OS/2 manuals are worth money... saving for a house when on an already strained budget is a bitch! -chris <http://www.mythtech.net> From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 31 02:07:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing In-Reply-To: <m18T8jq-000IzIC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212310000230.7631-100000@siconic.com> On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > the addressing of the timers and registers into the Apple's memory bus or > > The 7473 is a flip-flop, and I can't see what it's needed for here. Ok, then it inverts one of the Apple's clocks to make the timing work properly with the 6522. This is what I remember from way back when. > > I didn't design it. I just built it from plans :( > > Fat lot of use that course was, then... It was a lot of use, actually, especially now that I really need the knowledge I acquired to make this interface work. Unfortunately, I was merely a good student. I passed all the tests and got a good grade but didn't really learn as much as I would have liked. Electronics confused me then. > > I have a data sheet. I just haven't had a chance to study it yet. > > I guess it's easier to ask the rest of the world to make guesses about > a card they've never seen than to actually look at the data for yourself... Yes, it is. Thanks! ;) > > > The keyboard also can't sent more than 128 different characters to the > > > Apple (it's read in on a 7 bit port -- the 8th bit is the keyboard strobe > > > line, indicating that a key has been pressed). If you really want to use > > > the keyboard port for a reader input, then you're better off attacking it > > > at this interface -- the cable between the keyboard assembly and the CPU > > > board. > > > > Oh, well that's what I was considering doing. At that point it's a TTL > > parallel input, correct? > > Correct. Look at the keyboard interface section in the Apple ][ reference > manual. It gives a pinout of the connector and a description of the > signals IIRC. That's where I looked, and where I gleaned that it would be possible to send the outputs of the reader into the keyboard connector. (See, I do read once in a while.) > > Yes, but for run of the mill cards it would work pretty well. The problem > > You will find punctuation characters on 'run of the mill' cards. I Yes, but they are fairly standardized. The idea is to have at least a modicum of knowledge about the cards being read. In this case, the cards are printed with the data on the top, so I can tell it is using a FORTRAN character set. A couple batches don't have any printing, so I'll have to do some analysis of the data after it's been read and deduce the correct character set. > discovered this the hard way -- I have one of those manual card punches > with 12 buttons, one for each row. There's a mechanical interlock to > prevent more than one button in the 1-9 range being pressed at a time, > there are other interlocks too. And when all buttons are released, the > card steps on one column. Punching some quite common characters on that > turned into a mental exercise of what keys to hold down, and which to > press one after the other (as in : hold down 0, then press 3, release 3, > press 8, release 8 and 0) I have a Wrightline manual punch and it is far more accommodating than yours. It allows the special 8-3 zone to be pressed along with whatever other key. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From justin at ingrid.raspberrytea.com Tue Dec 31 05:00:00 2002 From: justin at ingrid.raspberrytea.com (Justin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Hi!/ Sharing the technology/ LK401/ Thanks! Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10212310451001.1877-100000@ingrid.raspberrytea.com> Hi guys. I stumbled upon your list while looking for LK401 schematics, and found that this is the kind of list I was looking for. My name is Justin, and I like classic computers. We have an interesting community of technology enthusiasts who hang out at a local coffee shop here in Houston, TX called Kaveh Kanes. For a while now I have been trying to get rid of a lot of my old computers, because I didn't really want to spend more time on them, but it was hard to part with them. So rather than toss them, I've been getting them functional and setting them up as internet terminals at the coffee shop. A friend, Barrett put his Intel FreeBSD machine up there to start. Now I have my SparcSTATION 5 exporting an X session from it so people can get on the web. Now I'm working on getting my VAXstation 3100 up and working. IT works but my keyboard is shot. I have the LK201, which seems to have a matrix fault. about 1/6 of the keys work. :-( I bought a LK401 on ebay and the person said it had the right connector when I asked. I waited too long after I got it and found out it didn't in fact have the right connector. Does anyone know about these? my VAX Station takes the 4 element RJ11 for which I have the pinout from the netbsd archive. The LK401 I have though has a 6 pin (5 of those are connected) minidin. ( I think its a minidin anyway ). It looks very similar inside, but I don't know what I can connect and I'm having trouble finding documentation for it. Well that was a windy introduction, but it tells you a little about myself, and what I'm trying to do. I just want to share old technology with people in a way that they can still use and appreciate it at the coffee shop. Incidently, I have the complete reference to VAX/VMS in 3 ring binders. I think its about 17 binders total. If anyone is interested, I'd be OK with parting with it. IT would be heavy to ship though. 70 lbs? Next on the list after the VAX is my Amiga 2000. It needs a 68020 processor card first before it can run either AmigaOS 3.9 or NetBSD.... -Justin From justin at ingrid.raspberrytea.com Tue Dec 31 05:07:06 2002 From: justin at ingrid.raspberrytea.com (Justin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Hi!/ Sharing the technology/ LK401/ Thanks! (fwd) Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10212310508580.1896-100000@ingrid.raspberrytea.com> Hi guys. I stumbled upon your list while looking for LK401 schematics, and found that this is the kind of list I was looking for. My name is Justin, and I like classic computers. We have an interesting community of technology enthusiasts who hang out at a local coffee shop here in Houston, TX called Kaveh Kanes. For a while now I have been trying to get rid of a lot of my old computers, because I didn't really want to spend more time on them, but it was hard to part with them. So rather than toss them, I've been getting them functional and setting them up as internet terminals at the coffee shop. A friend, Barrett put his Intel FreeBSD machine up there to start. Now I have my SparcSTATION 5 exporting an X session from it so people can get on the web. Now I'm working on getting my VAXstation 3100 up and working. IT works but my keyboard is shot. I have the LK201, which seems to have a matrix fault. about 1/6 of the keys work. :-( I bought a LK401 on ebay and the person said it had the right connector when I asked. I waited too long after I got it and found out it didn't in fact have the right connector. Does anyone know about these? my VAX Station takes the 4 element RJ11 for which I have the pinout from the netbsd archive. The LK401 I have though has a 6 pin (5 of those are connected) minidin. ( I think its a minidin anyway ). It looks very similar inside, but I don't know what I can connect and I'm having trouble finding documentation for it. Well that was a windy introduction, but it tells you a little about myself, and what I'm trying to do. I just want to share old technology with people in a way that they can still use and appreciate it at the coffee shop. Incidently, I have the complete reference to VAX/VMS in 3 ring binders. I think its about 17 binders total. If anyone is interested, I'd be OK with parting with it. IT would be heavy to ship though. 70 lbs? Next on the list after the VAX is my Amiga 2000. It needs a 68020 processor card first before it can run either AmigaOS 3.9 or NetBSD.... -Justin From cbajpai at attbi.com Tue Dec 31 06:46:01 2002 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Lisa jittery screens In-Reply-To: <1041299237.2279.38.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <000201c2b0ca$c4af4b60$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> This happened to my Lisa, after consulting with some Lisa experts found the fix was really easy. Take the top cover off the Lisa to expose the Lisa Video Board. You'll see 3 small Pots on top of the video board, over time the contacts oxide to cause the jitter....now with the Lisa on and with a small screw driver, *slightly* adjust each pot to wipe away the oxidation..return the pot to the original setting. -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey H. Ingber Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 8:47 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Lisa jittery screens I have two different Lisa machines and both have a jittery display (one 1.2AMP PSU, 1 1.8 AMP PSU). I've followed the instructions in the Sun Rem. guide to adjust the power supply output. This works immediately after the adjustment, but the problem gradually comes back over time. I adjusted both machines around the September timeframe and the jitters have back on both machines. I'd like to get both of these machines in top-shape so I can have them running at my New Years party =) Before I go through the adjustment again, is there anything else I should be checking? I've also tried adjusting the V.Hold, but this doesn't seem to make a difference. Maybe I'm not using a precise enough adjustment? Thanks, Jeff From fire at dls.net Tue Dec 31 06:56:00 2002 From: fire at dls.net (Bradley Slavik) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: DEC 3000 300X/300 Message-ID: <BA36F0B4.8635%fire@dls.net> Jochen writes > Why? You need pairs of 8 MB or 32 MB FPM parity 72 pin SIMMs. > Not that uncommon. Thanks for the useful information about the memory. I have already managed to locate 1 pair of SIMMs on Ebay. I will continue until maxed out. >> Now I look at the back of the machine and my main >> question is what cable do I need to hook up my VT220, or my VT420, Jochen replies > Any regular "null-modem" cable should do the job. I see how to hook up vt220 with db25 f-f null modem cable, but how does that get vt420 hooked up? It appears to have some kind of RJ connecton in back, not DB style. Is there a special cable for that? > >> or what >> model monitor with keyboard and mouse is this thing supposed to work with? > You need a LK201 or LK401 keyboard and a VSxxx mouse. The same keyboard > (and mouse) as used on the VT[234]xx terminals and the VAXstations. > Where do they hook up to? I see on ebay cables with db15 end and 3 bnc, keyboard and mouse at the other end. I hook this into back of DEC 3000 where it has tablet port? or do I need two separate cables, one for monitor from 3w3 connector and one from tablet port for keyboard and mouse? >> In a typical DEC fashion, in the manual they do not mention model numbers of >> monitor to go with it, > The video timings for the on board Smart Frame Buffer are: > 1024 x 786 @ 72 Hz for the 300L > 1280 x 1024 @ 72 Hz for the 300, 300X, 300LX > Any sync on green capable multisync monitor can be used. You just need > a 3W3 video cable. I have plenty of monitors, but not quite sure what you are saying. Say I have monitor with 13w3 connector on back, then I need 3w3 to 13w3 cable and monitor is set? Where do keyboard and mouse come into picture? Special cable plugging into tablet port (DB15) in back of DEC 3000? Sorry for so many questions, but I do not know too much about these machines (as if that is not obvious). Still I hope to soon have OpenVMS or Linux running on them. Bradley From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Dec 31 07:37:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: DEC 3000 300X/300 In-Reply-To: <BA36F0B4.8635%fire@dls.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212310823420.17244-100000@ibm-ps850.purdueriots.com> On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Bradley Slavik wrote: > I see how to hook up vt220 with db25 f-f null modem cable, but how does that > get vt420 hooked up? It appears to have some kind of RJ connecton in back, > not DB style. Is there a special cable for that? It's called an MMJ "Modified Modular Jack" from what I've heard. From memory, the pinout is approximately: 1 Handshaking 2 Data1 + 3 Data1 - 4 Data2 - 5 Data2 + 6 Handshaking I think that 1/6 are CTS and DTR, or something like that, but for DEC gear, hardware handshaking lines shouldn't be needed. Data1/Data2 are Tx/Rx, I'm not sure which is which, but you can use a null modem cable to figure that out. If you wanna make a DB25 to MMJ cable: DB25 MMJ 2 ------------- 2 3 ------------- 5 7 --+---------- 3 \---------- 4 Notice that on the MMJ, pins 3 and 4 are connected together to ground, and that the 'important' pins are the middle 4 - it's easy to cut a 4wire modular phone cable in a pinch, trip off the clip on the modular end (like below) and wire it to a DB25 connector / patch box. Just remember that the connector won't lock in now, so use something else to hold it in. _ / / _/_/_ _____ | | ==> | | ||||| ||||| > > > >> or what > >> model monitor with keyboard and mouse is this thing supposed to work with? > > You need a LK201 or LK401 keyboard and a VSxxx mouse. The same keyboard > > (and mouse) as used on the VT[234]xx terminals and the VAXstations. > > > Where do they hook up to? I see on ebay cables with db15 end and 3 bnc, > keyboard and mouse at the other end. I hook this into back of DEC 3000 where > it has tablet port? or do I need two separate cables, one for monitor from > 3w3 connector and one from tablet port for keyboard and mouse? The cable for the DEC 3000 series has JUST a keyboard/mouse on one end and DA15 on the other side. Now, be careful, DEC used a DA15 for the console on most of its machines, but seemed to use a difference cable, and pinout, for each machine class. > >> In a typical DEC fashion, in the manual they do not mention model numbers of > >> monitor to go with it, > > The video timings for the on board Smart Frame Buffer are: > > 1024 x 786 @ 72 Hz for the 300L > > 1280 x 1024 @ 72 Hz for the 300, 300X, 300LX > > Any sync on green capable multisync monitor can be used. You just need > > a 3W3 video cable. > > I have plenty of monitors, but not quite sure what you are saying. Say I > have monitor with 13w3 connector on back, then I need 3w3 to 13w3 cable and > monitor is set? Where do keyboard and mouse come into picture? Special cable > plugging into tablet port (DB15) in back of DEC 3000? If you want a 3w3 -> 13w3 cable (which I havent seen but you could probably make yourself), make sure the monitor can do sync-on-green. Your best bet is to find an IBM Powerdisplay (multisync) or authentic DEC monitor that has 3 BNC's on it, and a standard 3w3 -> BNCs cable. BTW, the DA15 "Tablet" port isn't a 'tablet port'. That's supposed to be a picture of a keyboard ;). > Sorry for so many questions, but I do not know too much about these machines > (as if that is not obvious). Still I hope to soon have OpenVMS or Linux > running on them. One last note - even though I'm a Linux fan, I seem to remember that NetBSD is a better OS to use than Linux (of course OpenVMS is also great, if you can get software for it to do what you want, or wanna spend $$$ or time doing it). I've got OpenVMS and NetBSD installed on my DEC 3000/600 - on separate drives. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Dec 31 08:29:03 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Jupiter Ace repair update In-Reply-To: <003b01c2afe5$40122de0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <EAELLACDNKNOEIOECBEEAEHGCGAA.witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Philip Pemberton > Sent: 30 December 2002 09:24 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Jupiter Ace repair update > > if only Farnell still stocked 2532s and 2114s... Thankfully the > buffers seem > to have isolated a lot of circuitry in the video circuitry, especially the > timing chain. Farnell don't but BG Micro in Texas do - www.bgmicro.com. I bought a boatload of 2114 compatibles from them in the summer to fix my dead PETs and Vectrex.... cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From trestivo at concentric.net Tue Dec 31 08:29:56 2002 From: trestivo at concentric.net (Thom Restivo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Another Decmate III available Message-ID: <LOBBLGPOLKHLIKMNDENPOEPCCPAA.trestivo@concentric.net> Hi all, Happy New Year! Just wanted you all to know the first two Decmate III's have sold on Ebay, and A third one has been posted. These systems are pretty cool! Word processing software comes with it so it works right out of the box. Take a look at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2085176520 There's also a brand new DEC mouse posted at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2085185434 Have a great holiday! thom From lott at austarnet.com.au Tue Dec 31 08:30:28 2002 From: lott at austarnet.com.au (Dave Lott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 Message-ID: <000501c2b0be$ea77f4c0$b587dccb@fred> G'day I hope that I am not interrupting anything but I was browsing through on just this subject of the Amstrad PPC640 Portable. I was given one of these machines sometime ago and it has been standing in my garage for a couple of years. I had been buy on other projects and there was no power unit. Today I plugged it into the cigarette lighter socket of my 81 Volvo using the adaptor that was available. It worked first time, and requested Date and Time. Checking with the manual I inserted the System Disk and away she booted into DOS. I used to run an Amstrad 1640 ECD which was my first taste of computing back in the dark days of 1988. If you would like me to I will copy and forward the SYS disk PPC512 / 640 MSDOS V3.30, which apart from the Main Op sys also has a programme on it called PPC ORGANISER. This has a Word Processor / Data Filing / Diary and Calculator. I also found that this computer has a PC200 Modem inbuilt which uses a programme called MIRROR 2. Speeds of 75 to 2400 bps are quoted using V21, V22, V22bis and V23 modes. Unfortunately I do not have the driver disk for the modem. Anyway should you require any further Info Please contact me. Dave Lott, Eden NSW Australia From jkunz at maja.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Dec 31 09:14:00 2002 From: jkunz at maja.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: DEC 3000 300X/300 In-Reply-To: <BA36F0B4.8635%fire@dls.net> References: <BA36F0B4.8635%fire@dls.net> Message-ID: <20021231153059.GA28952@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Tue, Dec 31, 2002 at 06:59:00AM -0600, Bradley Slavik wrote: > > Any regular "null-modem" cable should do the job. > I see how to hook up vt220 with db25 f-f null modem cable, but how does that > get vt420 hooked up? It appears to have some kind of RJ connecton in back, > not DB style. Is there a special cable for that? Your VT420 has only MMJ ports? See the other post or google for MMJ and pinout or http://www.bsdfans.org/ (?) to get the pinout. You can use any 6 pin RJ cable for the MMJ port if you cut off the tab. > > You need a LK201 or LK401 keyboard and a VSxxx mouse. The same keyboard > > (and mouse) as used on the VT[234]xx terminals and the VAXstations. > Where do they hook up to? Hmm. Can't remember exactely. The 300 does not have direct connectors for keyboard and mouse? There is a DB15 for keyboard and mouse? Then you need a DB15 to 7 pin miniDIN (mouse) and 4 pin RJ (keyboard) breake out cable. AFAIK it is the same as on DECstations, but _not_ as on VAXstations. > I see on ebay cables with db15 end and 3 bnc, > keyboard and mouse at the other end. This cable is for early VAXstations, it will not work. You need a separate video cable. > I have plenty of monitors, but not quite sure what you are saying. Say I > have monitor with 13w3 connector on back, then I need 3w3 to 13w3 cable and > monitor is set? You need a 3W3 video cable, preferable to 3 x BNC. Then you can use a 3 x BNC to 13W3 cable and BNC-BNC adapters (if you can't get this adapters BNC T plugs from your 10BaseT cabling will do too) to connect the two cables together, resulting in a 3W3 - 13W3 cable. If the monitor works with the DEC, just try. Most newer 19"/20" tubes should do. > Where do keyboard and mouse come into picture? Special cable > plugging into tablet port (DB15) in back of DEC 3000? Yes, see above. (The "tablet" is a keyboard. ;-) ) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Dec 31 09:19:00 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: DEC 3000 300X/300 In-Reply-To: <BA36F0B4.8635%fire@dls.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021231090608.02ac1f10@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Bradley Slavik may have mentioned these words: >Thanks for the useful information about the memory. I have already managed >to locate 1 pair of SIMMs on Ebay. I will continue until maxed out. I have no affiliation other than I'm a satisfied customer: http://www.18004memory.com/category.asp?catid=2&subcatid=202 Quite possibly better prices than what you'll find on Ebay... >Where do they hook up to? I see on ebay cables with db15 end and 3 bnc, >keyboard and mouse at the other end. I hook this into back of DEC 3000 where >it has tablet port? or do I need two separate cables, one for monitor from >3w3 connector and one from tablet port for keyboard and mouse? You'll need a 3w3 -> 3 BNC cable (for a 3/4/5 BNC connector monitor) and you'll need a special thingamawidget to hook a keyboard & mouse up -- I'm at work, DEC3000/300 at home, so I can't take a look at it just yet... >I have plenty of monitors, but not quite sure what you are saying. Say I >have monitor with 13w3 connector on back, then I need 3w3 to 13w3 cable and >monitor is set? Where do keyboard and mouse come into picture? Special cable >plugging into tablet port (DB15) in back of DEC 3000? Yea, that sounds right. >Sorry for so many questions, but I do not know too much about these >machines (as if that is not obvious). Still I hope to soon have OpenVMS or >Linux running on them. Hmmm... Linux? Keep hoping. AFAIK, linux doesn't support TurboChannel (or at least not much of it), so it'll be a struggle. NetBSD _last I checked_ ran fine on it, but didn't support any framebuffers, so you would need a terminal hooked up to it (which would negate your need to get the keyboard/mouse/monitor running... ;-) - but you'd wanna check netbsd.org for sure... maybe it's supported now. I ran Tru64 Unix on mine, it ran fair, but a little slow on 128Meg RAM -- debating when I can put in a little money into my little beastie... but I plan on running VMS on it when I do. Anywho, HTH & Happy New Year! Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Dec 31 09:22:00 2002 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: WWII fire control 'computers' Message-ID: <20021231152452.86058.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> > Suggest you head over to usenet and ask on uk.rec.subterranea - the > folks there are experts on most things concering British bunkers... Sure - I've actually been out exploring with quite a few of the people who hang out on that group! Generally they tend to be keen in the sites for the exploration value though, but are less interested in how the sites actually operated. After 60 years or so most of that knowledge has been forgotten, and much of the printed material of the time has been destroyed. Having a machine and getting it working again would be one thing. Trying to find details on something that was melted down at least 40 years ago is easier said than done! :-) cheers & have a good New Year's, Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From kth at srv.net Tue Dec 31 10:06:00 2002 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Hi!/ Sharing the technology/ LK401/ Thanks! References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10212310451001.1877-100000@ingrid.raspberrytea.com> Message-ID: <3E11C57D.7020606@srv.net> Justin wrote: >Hi guys. > >I stumbled upon your list while looking for LK401 schematics, and found >that this is the kind of list I was looking for. > >My name is Justin, and I like classic computers. We have an interesting >community of technology enthusiasts who hang out at a local coffee shop >here in Houston, TX called Kaveh Kanes. > >For a while now I have been trying to get rid of a lot of my old >computers, because I didn't really want to spend more time on them, but it >was hard to part with them. So rather than toss them, I've been getting >them functional and setting them up as internet terminals at the coffee >shop. > >A friend, Barrett put his Intel FreeBSD machine up there to start. Now I >have my SparcSTATION 5 exporting an X session from it so people can get >on the web. > >Now I'm working on getting my VAXstation 3100 up and working. IT works >but my keyboard is shot. I have the LK201, which seems to have a matrix >fault. about 1/6 of the keys work. :-( I bought a LK401 on ebay and the > Usually the problem with a group of dead keys is caused by a bad connection in the flexible cables that plug into the logic board. Yes, it is actually plugged in and not soldered under those metal tabs, but it is an extremely tight fit. What I did when I tried to repair one of these is to loosen one end of the connector (bend back the tabs from under the logic board), and then the cable would come out without damaging it. Then clean the contacts (both on the plastic cable and on the logic board) using a soft non-abrasive eraser (Staedler makes a nice one), then put the cable back in (carefully matching up the traces). Repeat for the second connector if the first one didn't fix it. However, doing this has an equal chance of improving the keyboard, doing nothing, or making it worse. Probably try this only if you have spares available or the keyboard is useless anyway. >person said it had the right connector when I asked. I waited too long >after I got it and found out it didn't in fact have the right connector. > >Does anyone know about these? my VAX Station takes the 4 element RJ11 for >which I have the pinout from the netbsd archive. The LK401 I have though >has a 6 pin (5 of those are connected) minidin. ( I think its a minidin >anyway ). > The keyboard you have has a PS/2 connector on it. This is the same connector as is used by most PC's today for the keyboard and mouse. You can plug this keyboard into your PC and it would work. However, what you want is the older style keyboard, which is the same one that was used on the VT220 through VT420 terminals (but NOT the VT100). I don't think you can convert a PS/2 keyboard into a VT220 keyboard. If you have a VT220-VT420 terminal then you can swap keyboards with it. > >It looks very similar inside, but I don't know what I can connect and I'm >having trouble finding documentation for it. > >Well that was a windy introduction, but it tells you a little about >myself, and what I'm trying to do. I just want to share old technology >with people in a way that they can still use and appreciate it at the >coffee shop. > >Incidently, I have the complete reference to VAX/VMS in 3 ring binders. I >think its about 17 binders total. If anyone is interested, I'd be OK with >parting with it. IT would be heavy to ship though. 70 lbs? > > You should mention which version of VMS these manuals go with. Also, Dec/compaq/hp has most of the current VMS manuals available online as PDF or HTML files. >Next on the list after the VAX is my Amiga 2000. It needs a 68020 >processor card first before it can run either AmigaOS 3.9 or NetBSD.... > > > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Dec 31 10:12:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Hi!/ Sharing the technology/ LK401/ Thanks! In-Reply-To: Justin <justin@ingrid.raspberrytea.com> "Hi!/ Sharing the technology/ LK401/ Thanks!" (Dec 31, 5:04) References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10212310451001.1877-100000@ingrid.raspberrytea.com> Message-ID: <10212311611.ZM20417@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 31, 5:04, Justin wrote: > Now I'm working on getting my VAXstation 3100 up and working. IT works > but my keyboard is shot. I have the LK201, which seems to have a matrix > fault. about 1/6 of the keys work. :-( I bought a LK401 on ebay and the > person said it had the right connector when I asked. I waited too long > after I got it and found out it didn't in fact have the right connector. > > Does anyone know about these? my VAX Station takes the 4 element RJ11 for > which I have the pinout from the netbsd archive. The LK401 I have though > has a 6 pin (5 of those are connected) minidin. ( I think its a minidin > anyway ). Oops. Sounds like you have an LK450, LK461 or LK471, not an LK401. LK401 uses a DEC protocol, the others are PS/2-style keyboards. They're not interchangeable, I'm afraid. There should be a label on the underside, with three barcodes, the top barcode being the model number. Does it say LK401, or something a little different? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From felten at vaxnet.de Tue Dec 31 10:57:31 2002 From: felten at vaxnet.de (felten@vaxnet.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Unibus UDA50 pinout, qbus RL02 Message-ID: <3E11DAF9.7010700@vaxnet.de> Hi, Does someone have the pinout for a UDA50 ? I have the two-board-set M7485-YA and M7486 but I don't have the cables from the controller and no bulkhead. I'd like to connect a single RA80 and I know about the "uneven number of cables"-rule. Currently the RA80 has two cables connected to the cabinet (mini bulkhead?), from there's another cable haning loose. Can I make a cable that fits onto this cable and the UDA50 ? What kind of coaxial cable should I use ? Anything else I should know or check before powering up the drive ? Another topic: M8061 (qbus, RLV12 for RL02) Something strage is happening when I try to boot from or access my RL02.... Configuration: PDP 11/83, 4mb ram M8061 and one RL02 (drive0), terminator When I boot the RL02, the run light simply goes off. No error message, nothing. the clock signal from the controller should be there, because i can load the disk, the drive spins up and the Ready "0" light goes on. When booting 2.11BSD (from RD54) the same thing happens: the run light goes off, again no error message. The loaded diskpack contains afaik no usefull information. Trying another diskpack didn't change anything. The controller is jumpered as described in the RLV Users Guide and set for Q22 operation. The drive & cable are ok, because I can hang it on my 11/44 and boot RSX11M from another diskpack with it. Thanks, lothar. From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Tue Dec 31 12:04:25 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: OS/2 manuals References: <S.0000103408@mythtech.net> Message-ID: <3E11DCEA.D488840F@Vishay.com> Chris, given that I have an original OS/2 (Version 2.11) package, unopened, still sealed, up on (German) eBay for a couple of days now, and it did not attract any offers so far, I assume that your manuals will probably have no merchandising value. See http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2084022487 if you want to compare. However, I'd welcome anybody to prove me wrong! ;-) Happy new year, everybody! Andreas chris schrieb: > > Is there any interest or value in OS/2 manuals? I have a few OS/2 boxes, ... From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Dec 31 12:38:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: OS/2 manuals References: <S.0000103408@mythtech.net> <3E11DCEA.D488840F@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <3E11E41B.1080502@jetnet.ab.ca> Andreas Freiherr wrote: > Chris, > > given that I have an original OS/2 (Version 2.11) package, unopened, > still sealed, up on (German) eBay for a couple of days now, and it did > not attract any offers so far, I assume that your manuals will probably > have no merchandising value. See > http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2084022487 if you want > to compare. > > However, I'd welcome anybody to prove me wrong! ;-) While I don't want OS/2, manuals and doc's are just as important as the software or hardware! From justin at ingrid.raspberrytea.com Tue Dec 31 12:59:23 2002 From: justin at ingrid.raspberrytea.com (Justin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Hi!/ Sharing the technology/ LK401/ Thanks! In-Reply-To: <10212311611.ZM20417@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10212311258100.2239-100000@ingrid.raspberrytea.com> > Oops. Sounds like you have an LK450, LK461 or LK471, not an LK401. LK401 > uses a DEC protocol, the others are PS/2-style keyboards. They're not > interchangeable, I'm afraid. There should be a label on the underside, > with three barcodes, the top barcode being the model number. Does it say > LK401, or something a little different? You are the only one to say it speaks DEC and not ps/2 though it has a ps/2 connector. The circuitboard looks like that of a LK201 when I take it apart. It does have 3 barcodes on the bottom. It isn't made by DEC but in Mexico by someone: <barcode> 119-4022-01 VT LK401 North American/UK Date code <barcode> serial number <barcode> Cat list 108rx43s-145e But it ways 5.0 VDC, so I guess it must be ps/2 and not dec style since dec has 12 vdc? Thanks also to Kevin Handy and Ethan Dicks for your help. Happy new year! -Justin From eusty at galaxycorp.com Tue Dec 31 13:14:01 2002 From: eusty at galaxycorp.com (eusty@galaxycorp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: VAX/VMS reference material Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20021231105134.00806900@earthlink.net> Hi Justin, I'm interested in your VAX/VMS ref. material; please contact me off list at eusty@galaxycorp.com if they are still available, thanks Vincent From runtime at wzrd.com Tue Dec 31 13:14:53 2002 From: runtime at wzrd.com (Don Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: DEC 3000 300X/300 Message-ID: <KGEIJLPEPFDKEIGNPFPIEEJBDKAA.runtime@wzrd.com> Bradley: Pat's advice about using RJ11 with the tab cut off is workable, but it's probably better to use MMJ if you possibly can. MMJ connectors are easy to find, and DB25 - MMJ adaptors are also easy to find. Then, all that's needed is 6 conductor flat cable, also easy to find, and an MMJ crimper -- not very easy to find, and expensive. I can easily make up MMJ cable(s) for you if you need one or two. I can check my stock of DB25/MMJ adaptors, too. What gender DB25 is needed? (I don't have a 3000 to look at, to make sure.) email me off list -- we can get this one worked out. Don From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 31 13:26:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 In-Reply-To: <000501c2b0be$ea77f4c0$b587dccb@fred> from "Dave Lott" at Dec 31, 2 10:22:14 pm Message-ID: <m18TRxJ-000IzYC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1628 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021231/f2125249/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 31 13:26:37 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Lisa jittery screens In-Reply-To: <1041299237.2279.38.camel@supermicro> from "Jeffrey H. Ingber" at Dec 30, 2 08:47:14 pm Message-ID: <m18TRiE-000IzIC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2199 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021231/da34799f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 31 13:27:11 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Lisa jittery screens In-Reply-To: <1041300981.2199.45.camel@supermicro> from "Jeffrey H. Ingber" at Dec 30, 2 09:16:17 pm Message-ID: <m18TRjc-000IzSC@p850ug1> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 439 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021231/4573ab77/attachment.ksh From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Tue Dec 31 13:46:23 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: OS/2 manuals References: <S.0000103408@mythtech.net> <3E11DCEA.D488840F@Vishay.com> <3E11E41B.1080502@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3E11F4D5.1D74365C@Vishay.com> Ben, agreed: software or hardware without manuals is very hard (read: virtually impossible) to put back to operation. What I am saying is that apparently there is no interest in OS/2 in general, and you seem to confirm this. I am, however, still prepared to be proven wrong. Andreas ben franchuk schrieb: > > Andreas Freiherr wrote: > > Chris, > > > > given that I have an original OS/2 (Version 2.11) package, unopened, > > still sealed, up on (German) eBay for a couple of days now, and it did > > not attract any offers so far, I assume that your manuals will probably > > have no merchandising value. See > > http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2084022487 if you want > > to compare. > > > > However, I'd welcome anybody to prove me wrong! ;-) > > While I don't want OS/2, manuals and doc's are just as > important as the software or hardware! From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Dec 31 13:48:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Lisa jittery screens In-Reply-To: <m18TRiE-000IzIC@p850ug1> References: <1041299237.2279.38.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021231134839.01b094b8@ubanproductions.com> > > I have two different Lisa machines and both have a jittery display (one > > 1.2AMP PSU, 1 1.8 AMP PSU). I've followed the instructions in the Sun > > Rem. guide to adjust the power supply output. This works immediately > > after the adjustment, but the problem gradually comes back over time. I > > adjusted both machines around the September timeframe and the jitters > > have back on both machines. I'd like to get both of these machines in > > top-shape so I can have them running at my New Years party =) As I recall, my Lisa had some sort of display problem when I first got it and when I went to twiddle the various monitor board trim pots, the problem cleared up. It was just old dirty contacts on the CRT adjustment potentiometers that caused the problem. As long as you keep track of where they started, you can often wiggle them back and forth a bit to re-establish a "good" contact. --tom From kth at srv.net Tue Dec 31 14:04:00 2002 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Snoopy was Re: M200 interfacing References: <22.3423996c.2b421490@aol.com> <20021230222925.26554@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3E11FD2F.60800@srv.net> Tom Owad wrote: >>Ah Yes, The first thing I printed out with my Litton 1251 when I got it into >>my living room in the mid 80s was a Snoopy calendar. All in punched tape. >>Nice machine, wished I had kept it. >> >> > >Anybody have the text for this calendar? > >Tom > >Applefritter >www.applefritter.com > > > > Do you mean something like this BASIC program, which prints the Snoopy image. Sometimes it was run followed by a run of a calendar program. 10 PRINT 20 PRINT 30 PRINT 40 PRINT " XXXX" 50 PRINT " X XX" 60 PRINT " X *** X XXXXX" 70 PRINT " X ***** X XXX XX" 80 PRINT " XXXX ******* XXX XXXX XX" 90 PRINT " XX X ****** XXXXXXXXX XX XXX" 100 PRINT " XX X **** X X** X" 110 PRINT " X XX XX X X***X" 120 PRINT " X //XXXX X XXXX" 130 PRINT " X // X XX" 140 PRINT " X // X XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX/" 150 PRINT " X XXX// X X" 160 PRINT " X X X X X" 170 PRINT " X X X X X" 180 PRINT " X X X X X XX" 190 PRINT " X X X X X XXX XX" 200 PRINT " X XXX X X X X X X" 210 PRINT " X X X XX X XXXX" 220 PRINT " X X XXXXXXXX\ XX XX X" 230 PRINT " XX XX X X X XX" 240 PRINT " XX XXXX XXXXXX/ X XXXX" 250 PRINT " XXX XX*** X X" 260 PRINT " XXXXXXXXXXXXX * * X X" 270 PRINT " *---* X X X" 280 PRINT " *-* * XXX X X" 290 PRINT " *- * XXX X" 300 PRINT " *- *X XXX" 310 PRINT " *- *X X XXX" 320 PRINT " *- *X X XX" 330 PRINT " *- *XX X X" 340 PRINT " * *X* X X X" 350 PRINT " * *X * X X X" 360 PRINT " * * X** X XXXX X" 370 PRINT " * * X** XX X X" 380 PRINT " * ** X** X XX X" 390 PRINT " * ** X* XXX X X" 400 PRINT " * ** XX XXXX XXX" 410 PRINT " * * * XXXX X X" 420 PRINT " * * * X X X" 430 PRINT " =======******* * * X X XXXXXXXX\" 440 PRINT " * * * /XXXXX XXXXXXXX\ )" 450 PRINT " =====********** * X ) \ )" 460 PRINT " ====* * X \ \ )XXXXX" 470 PRINT " =========********** XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX" 480 PRINT 490 PRINT 500 PRINT "COMPLIMENTS OF THE COMPONENTS GROUP VIA THE LSI-11" 510 PRINT 520 END From cbajpai at attbi.com Tue Dec 31 14:14:00 2002 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Lisa jittery screens In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021231134839.01b094b8@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <000501c2b109$6d196cc0$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> This is the problem I had with my Lisa...check my post if anyone wants directions on how do adjust. -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tom Uban Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 2:52 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Lisa jittery screens > > I have two different Lisa machines and both have a jittery display (one > > 1.2AMP PSU, 1 1.8 AMP PSU). I've followed the instructions in the Sun > > Rem. guide to adjust the power supply output. This works immediately > > after the adjustment, but the problem gradually comes back over time. I > > adjusted both machines around the September timeframe and the jitters > > have back on both machines. I'd like to get both of these machines in > > top-shape so I can have them running at my New Years party =) As I recall, my Lisa had some sort of display problem when I first got it and when I went to twiddle the various monitor board trim pots, the problem cleared up. It was just old dirty contacts on the CRT adjustment potentiometers that caused the problem. As long as you keep track of where they started, you can often wiggle them back and forth a bit to re-establish a "good" contact. --tom From owad at applefritter.com Tue Dec 31 14:46:00 2002 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Snoopy was Re: M200 interfacing In-Reply-To: <3E11FD2F.60800@srv.net> References: <3E11FD2F.60800@srv.net> Message-ID: <20021231204814.12340@mail.earthlink.net> >Do you mean something like this BASIC program, which prints >the Snoopy image. Sometimes it was run followed by a run >of a calendar program. I see. I thought it was a separate image for each month. I found this 1981 Snoopy calendar, too, though I can't make the image out. <http://www.textfiles.com/art/snoopy.untab> Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Dec 31 14:59:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: substitute for TI TIL306/307 Display? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021231160657.0f370e7a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone know of another display that can be substituted for the TIL 306/307? Here is a data sheet for the 306/307 in case you have a question about it, <www.alltronics.com/download/TIL306.pdf>. Joe From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Dec 31 15:38:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: OS/2 manuals In-Reply-To: <3E11DCEA.D488840F@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212311640380.18438-100000@ibm-ps850.purdueriots.com> On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > Chris, > > given that I have an original OS/2 (Version 2.11) package, unopened, > still sealed, up on (German) eBay for a couple of days now, and it did > not attract any offers so far, I assume that your manuals will probably > have no merchandising value. See > http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2084022487 if you want > to compare. > > However, I'd welcome anybody to prove me wrong! ;-) > > Happy new year, everybody! > Andreas Andreas, if you were selling that in North America, I would probably bid on it... Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From kth at srv.net Tue Dec 31 15:47:00 2002 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Snoopy was Re: M200 interfacing References: <3E11FD2F.60800@srv.net> <20021231204814.12340@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3E12155F.2070806@srv.net> Tom Owad wrote: >>Do you mean something like this BASIC program, which prints >>the Snoopy image. Sometimes it was run followed by a run >>of a calendar program. >> >> > >I see. I thought it was a separate image for each month. > > There may have been a program that did this. Hundreds of calendar programs were written (and a few of them even handled leap years, and a very few of them handled leap years correctly). >I found this 1981 Snoopy calendar, too, though I can't make the image >out. <http://www.textfiles.com/art/snoopy.untab> > > It's just a <wide> ascii file with a calander for 1981 stuck on the end. Easily viewed with a fixed font. >Tom > >Applefritter >www.applefritter.com > > > > I think that there were hundreds of snoopy pictures floating around. You should be able to find many of them on the internet. Some were much better than others. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 31 15:55:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Anyone have any experience replacing a Dallas 1287 with a 12887? Message-ID: <20021231215748.44103.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> While attempting to revive a Compaq 286/SLT laptop for use as a front-end for my UP600a programmer, I have found that the battery on the DS1287 has died (no suprise there). What sucks is that even after I run the floppy-based setup utility, after a reboot (not a power-off cycle), the machine forgets what I just set, both the data and time, and the geometry of the A: drive. Seeing as how it thinks there's a 5.25" floppy and it's really a 3.5" high-density drive at the end of the cable, as you can imagine, it won't reliably read disks. So... I have ordered a replacement DS12887 since they no longer make/ship the DS1287. Couple of interesting app notes here: http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/562 http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/2681 What I'm wondering is if anyone on the list has ever replaced a DS1287 with a DS12887. One of the sheets seems to suggest that I'll need an updated BIOS ROM (clearly not available for a 286 laptop) to drive the extra stuff associated with the enhanced century rollover. Alternatively, has anyone here successfully performed surgery on a Dallas module? I have disconnected the battery from a Mostek 48T02 from a SPARC and soldered on an external Lithium cell, but the packaging makes it easy to get access to the battery wires coming down from the top (I even put the battery on a 9V battery snap so it's easier to replace) I haven't heard of anyone doing this for the more sealed Dallas modules. So... anybody else suffer though this? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From jingber at ix.netcom.com Tue Dec 31 16:42:00 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:56 2005 Subject: Lisa jittery screens In-Reply-To: <000201c2b0ca$c4af4b60$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> References: <000201c2b0ca$c4af4b60$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <1041374613.2249.19.camel@supermicro> Bingo! That fixed the jittering on both machines to a large degree. I hit the pots with a quick burst of contact cleaner and that finished off the problem completely. The display is as good as new. Thanks a bunch! Jeff On Tue, 2002-12-31 at 07:47, Chandra Bajpai wrote: > > This happened to my Lisa, after consulting with some Lisa experts found > the fix was really easy. Take the top cover off the Lisa to expose the > Lisa Video Board. You'll see 3 small Pots on top of the video board, > over time the contacts oxide to cause the jitter....now with the Lisa on > and with a small screw driver, *slightly* adjust each pot to wipe away > the oxidation..return the pot to the original setting. > > -Chandra > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Jeffrey H. Ingber > Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 8:47 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Lisa jittery screens > > I have two different Lisa machines and both have a jittery display (one > 1.2AMP PSU, 1 1.8 AMP PSU). I've followed the instructions in the Sun > Rem. guide to adjust the power supply output. This works immediately > after the adjustment, but the problem gradually comes back over time. I > adjusted both machines around the September timeframe and the jitters > have back on both machines. I'd like to get both of these machines in > top-shape so I can have them running at my New Years party =) > > Before I go through the adjustment again, is there anything else I > should be checking? I've also tried adjusting the V.Hold, but this > doesn't seem to make a difference. Maybe I'm not using a precise enough > adjustment? > > Thanks, > Jeff > > > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Dec 31 17:49:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:57 2005 Subject: Anyone have any experience replacing a Dallas 1287 with a 12887? Message-ID: <200212312351.PAA09907@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Ethan Dicks" <erd_6502@yahoo.com> > > >While attempting to revive a Compaq 286/SLT laptop for use as a >front-end for my UP600a programmer, I have found that the battery >on the DS1287 has died (no suprise there). What sucks is that >even after I run the floppy-based setup utility, after a reboot >(not a power-off cycle), the machine forgets what I just set, >both the data and time, and the geometry of the A: drive. Seeing >as how it thinks there's a 5.25" floppy and it's really a 3.5" >high-density drive at the end of the cable, as you can imagine, >it won't reliably read disks. > >So... I have ordered a replacement DS12887 since they no longer make/ship >the DS1287. Couple of interesting app notes here: > > http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/562 > http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/2681 > >What I'm wondering is if anyone on the list has ever replaced a DS1287 >with a DS12887. One of the sheets seems to suggest that I'll need >an updated BIOS ROM (clearly not available for a 286 laptop) to drive >the extra stuff associated with the enhanced century rollover. > >Alternatively, has anyone here successfully performed surgery on a Dallas >module? I have disconnected the battery from a Mostek 48T02 from a SPARC >and soldered on an external Lithium cell, but the packaging makes it easy >to get access to the battery wires coming down from the top (I even put >the battery on a 9V battery snap so it's easier to replace) I haven't >heard of anyone doing this for the more sealed Dallas modules. > >So... anybody else suffer though this? > >-ethan > > Hi In a search of the news groups, I found an article by a fellow that had done surgery on a number of different modules. One thing that seemed to be constant was that they put the battery in a number of different locations within these types of devices. If I was going to hack mine, I first take it to a printed circuit building shop. These guys usually have a small X-ray machine for inspecting solder joints. With one of these, you can locate where the vital parts of the chip are. You can then use a Dremel to grind into it and connect an external 3V cell. Dwight From fernande at internet1.net Tue Dec 31 17:52:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:57 2005 Subject: OS/2 manuals In-Reply-To: <3E11F4D5.1D74365C@Vishay.com> References: <S.0000103408@mythtech.net> <3E11DCEA.D488840F@Vishay.com> <3E11E41B.1080502@jetnet.ab.ca> <3E11F4D5.1D74365C@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <3E122E51.80201@internet1.net> Andreas Freiherr wrote: > Ben, > > agreed: software or hardware without manuals is very hard (read: > virtually impossible) to put back to operation. > > What I am saying is that apparently there is no interest in OS/2 in > general, and you seem to confirm this. > > I am, however, still prepared to be proven wrong. > > Andreas I think most people already have the manuals, that also have the software. That, or they want Warp 4. Chad FErnandez Michigan, USA From rschaefe at gcfn.org Tue Dec 31 20:44:01 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:57 2005 Subject: DEC 3000 300X/300 References: <KGEIJLPEPFDKEIGNPFPIEEJBDKAA.runtime@wzrd.com> Message-ID: <00db01c2b140$25dfea50$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Mitchell" <runtime@wzrd.com> To: <cctech@classiccmp.org> Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 1:52 PM Subject: DEC 3000 300X/300 > MMJ connectors are easy to find, and DB25 - MMJ > adaptors are also easy to find. Then, all > that's needed is 6 conductor flat cable, also > easy to find, and an MMJ crimper -- not very > easy to find, and expensive. > FYI, Ideal Industries makes an RJ45 & MMJ crimper, cat no. 30-497 (http://www.idealindustries.com/dc/Tool.nsf, about halfway down), that can be had for less than US$40. > Don > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Dec 31 20:49:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:57 2005 Subject: Hi!/ Sharing the technology/ LK401/ Thanks! In-Reply-To: Justin <justin@ingrid.raspberrytea.com> "Re: Hi!/ Sharing the technology/ LK401/ Thanks!" (Dec 31, 13:03) References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10212311258100.2239-100000@ingrid.raspberrytea.com> Message-ID: <10301010252.ZM20715@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 31, 13:03, Justin wrote: > > Oops. Sounds like you have an LK450, LK461 or LK471, not an LK401. LK401 > > uses a DEC protocol, the others are PS/2-style keyboards. They're not > > interchangeable, I'm afraid. There should be a label on the underside, > > with three barcodes, the top barcode being the model number. Does it say > > LK401, or something a little different? > > You are the only one to say it speaks DEC and not ps/2 though it has a > ps/2 connector. The circuitboard looks like that of a LK201 when I take > it apart. They all look fairly similar. What I meant is that the ones with PS/2-style plugs normally use PS/2 protocol, and the ones with an RJ11 use a different, proprietary protocol. My PS/2 ones are at work so I can't easily check. The only ones I have here are RJ11 LK401s, from VT420s. > It does have 3 barcodes on the bottom. It isn't made by DEC but in > Mexico by someone My LK401s, one UK layout, one German, both say Made in Mexico but they're still DEC. > But it ways 5.0 VDC, so I guess it must be ps/2 and not dec style since > dec has 12 vdc? Sorry, I can't remember. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Dec 31 21:04:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:57 2005 Subject: Section 9? References: <20021228122237.A31158-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <3E125C19.5000600@tiac.net> Hiya Jim, Yep, that was probably me telling you about needing a resistor plugged into the battery plug on HP1000's that have the battery backup option installed. If you have the battery backup option, and no jumper, the machine will act as if it has no memory installed and you should get the 'all register lights' on failure mode. I'll look up the specifics of the resistor again if thats what you need. Can you describe the problems your seeing? James Willing wrote: >Ok, a tad cryptic. <G> > >I've found the .pdf version of the HP 1000/M/E/F Engineering Docs, but >every copy I've been able to access is missing section 9 (still can't keep >track of the Roman Numerals they mark the sections with) which covers the >power supply. > >There seems something a tad 'twinky' with mine, tho I seem to recall at >one point someone had directed me to a jumper/resistor that needed to be >installed at the 'Battery Input' connector on the rear to wake something >up, but of course now that I'm working on it I can't find anything... > >Help??? > >-jim >--- >jimw@agora.rdrop.com >The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw > > From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Dec 31 21:15:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:57 2005 Subject: Section 9? (HP 1000 power supply) References: <F178Gfms8XgS06z0Fha0001538f@hotmail.com> <200212290638.gBT6ceAl034447@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <3E125E92.3080602@tiac.net> Yep, thats the external battery pack bypass jumper. Some HP's have an internal power supply option for battery backup using a 14V Gel Cell battery. If the external battery pack is disconnected, you need to install this jumper or the machine will not power up the memory system properly. This can be mis-diagnosed as a deffective power supply or bad CPU. If your getting all siz register-select LEDs lit on power-up, that may well be your problem. But dusty-old HP1000's often have fussy ribbon cables inside the memory card cage that can cause some intermitant power-up issues. Also for some reason its not too uncommon to find misconfigured memory systems. I've seen machines come out of the field with improper combinations of memory arrays and controllers more than once. This will cause you start-up problems too. Frank McConnell wrote: >"Glen S" <glenslick@hotmail.com> wrote: > >>But someone else on the list told me that something like an 880ohm resister >>across the left most and right most terminals of the middle row of the >>battery connector input would trigger the power supply to power up all of >>the way. That did the trick for the HP 1000 / 2117F that I have. >> > >Here I sit looking at a little black square 3x3 plug, HP p/n >12991-60002 (stamped in white ink on one side of the hood). > >Inside the hood (visible through the hole in the back) there is only a >1/4W resistor connected to pins 4 and 6, which matches Glen's >description. Bands are gray, red, brown, gold. Hmm, 820 ohms? >Measures as 823 ohms on my cheap digital multimeter. > >-Frank McConnell > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021231/0ecf331c/attachment.html From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Dec 31 21:19:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:57 2005 Subject: Section 9? (HP 1000 power supply) References: <m18SiaG-000IzUC@p850ug1> Message-ID: <3E125FBF.5060506@tiac.net> HP also used a 5% 880 ohm, non-standard value in the same application. Looking at the schematics, you just need to draw a trickle charge current for the battery backup version of the supply to run. I suspect HP used extra stock parts, and this is really not such a critical value. Tony Duell wrote: >>That is good information to know. I never had a plug to look at and check >>the resister inside. I think I was told 880 ohms, but that doesn't appear >>to be a standard resister value while 820 ohms is a standard value. Now >> > >Since HP used a 5% resistor, I would bet that 800 ohms or 820 ohms will >be fine... > >-tony > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021231/7a27162d/attachment.html From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Dec 31 22:38:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:57 2005 Subject: MMJ and custom cables (was: Re: DEC 3000 300X/300) In-Reply-To: <00db01c2b140$25dfea50$7d00a8c0@george> References: <KGEIJLPEPFDKEIGNPFPIEEJBDKAA.runtime@wzrd.com> <00db01c2b140$25dfea50$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212312227590.4474-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > From: "Don Mitchell" <runtime@wzrd.com> > > > MMJ connectors are easy to find, and DB25 - MMJ adaptors are also easy > > to find. Then, all that's needed is 6 conductor flat cable, also easy > > to find, and an MMJ crimper -- not very easy to find, and expensive. > > FYI, Ideal Industries makes an RJ45 & MMJ crimper, cat no. 30-497 > (http://www.idealindustries.com/dc/Tool.nsf, about halfway down), that > can be had for less than US$40. Ideal also makes a MMJ compatible die set for those of us who already own a compatible ratcheting crimper. The cost for the die set is around $15 or less depending on the sales vendor. Since we are on the subject of cable building, I'd like to find out just how much demand there is out there for MMJ and other such hard to find/ custom cables for classic computers. I've been considering purchasing tools and materials to build some of these cables, and if demand is high enough, I'd be willing to build such cables for the cost of materials plus a nominal amount for other classic computer enthusiasts. This would certainly help me justify purchasing the required tools and materials, and would also make some of these hard to find cables easier to obtain. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Dec 31 22:42:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:57 2005 Subject: substitute for TI TIL306/307 Display? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021231160657.0f370e7a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20021231160657.0f370e7a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212312249490.4474-100000@strudel.invalid.domain> On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Joe wrote: > Does anyone know of another display that can be substituted for the TIL > 306/307? Here is a data sheet for the 306/307 in case you have a > question about it, <www.alltronics.com/download/TIL306.pdf>. I don't know of an exact replacement offhand, but I thought these were still in production? How many of these displays are you looking for? I believe I still have a few in my parts bin... -Toth From ian_primus at yahoo.com Tue Dec 31 22:44:00 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:57 2005 Subject: Floppy disk media density/format mismatching Message-ID: <D9B73237-1D43-11D7-B2C9-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> I was hunting around on ebay, and I found this quite by accident. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4610&item=2085201851 It is an auction for some reproduction Apple Lisa system disks. The guy certainly did a good job copying the labels, but I really wonder about the data on them - the disks he used are high density floppies. I always thought that if you format a high density floppy for low density that it will work for a while, then the data will become corrupt due to the different magnetic properties of the media. I know that this is true on 5 1/4 media, I used a high density disk in a Commodore 64 by mistake once, and it didn't work very well. I also remember back when high density 3 1/2" floppies were pretty expensive, I used to buy low density disks and drill holes in the other corner so I could reformat them for high density. It worked just fine, and those disks still work. Can anyone shed any light on the subject? Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Dec 31 23:19:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:57 2005 Subject: Anyone have any experience replacing a Dallas 1287 with a 12887? In-Reply-To: <20021231215748.44103.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E1223D4.6205.7C6AC05@localhost> A while back I had problems accessing a Grid 1520-286 because of a password. If I remember correctly it was a DS1287A. The A signified it as resettable and grounding 2 pins cleared the memory. Your problem would seem to stem more from the BIOS settings and it is going to the default setting and since the Dallis chip is dead nothing is retained. ISTR that the 12887 is a drop-in replacement. If you want to call soldering all those pins "drop-in" Dallas has a bunch of info on the chip. I don't have the URL handy. Considering all the problems and low used prices involved. You might consider getting an old Grid 1520 which also has the advantage of an additional EPROM slot which can contain info configuring various aspects of the computer, including a system boot. Lawrence On 31 Dec 2002, , Ethan Dicks wrote: > > While attempting to revive a Compaq 286/SLT laptop for use > as a front-end for my UP600a programmer, I have found that > the battery on the DS1287 has died (no suprise there). What > sucks is that even after I run the floppy-based setup > utility, after a reboot (not a power-off cycle), the machine > forgets what I just set, both the data and time, and the > geometry of the A: drive. Seeing as how it thinks there's a > 5.25" floppy and it's really a 3.5" high-density drive at > the end of the cable, as you can imagine, it won't reliably > read disks. > > So... I have ordered a replacement DS12887 since they no > longer make/ship the DS1287. Couple of interesting app > notes here: > > http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/562 > http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/2681 > > What I'm wondering is if anyone on the list has ever > replaced a DS1287 with a DS12887. One of the sheets seems > to suggest that I'll need an updated BIOS ROM (clearly not > available for a 286 laptop) to drive the extra stuff > associated with the enhanced century rollover. > > Alternatively, has anyone here successfully performed > surgery on a Dallas module? I have disconnected the battery > from a Mostek 48T02 from a SPARC and soldered on an external > Lithium cell, but the packaging makes it easy to get access > to the battery wires coming down from the top (I even put > the battery on a 9V battery snap so it's easier to replace) > I haven't heard of anyone doing this for the more sealed > Dallas modules. > > So... anybody else suffer though this? > > -ethan > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com May you get halfway to heaven, before Satan learns you're dead or 3/4s of the way to the bar before your wife finds you've gone out. lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Dec 31 23:21:02 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:57 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.51.0212301529020.2825@panix2.panix.com> References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0212301420250.16773-100000@george.home.org> Message-ID: <3E1223D4.29429.7C6AC6E@localhost> I also worked as crew on a bunch of films. As asst. prop, driver, returning and picking up props, as well as other positions like electric, special effects, and grip. I actually worked on films that I never knew their names, such as one that had about 3 name changes before it became "Big Town" (?). A film with Jim Carey in it would be a major production and Australia has many professionals, including propmasters who would have a pretty good idea where they could obtain props likely long before the name and principals were decided. One 30 year veteran propmaster I worked and ate with had a 1 year lead-time to line up props for some dreadful right-wing funded film starring Chris Cristopherson. One of the major concerns is costs of rental versus outright purchase and return from sale after production. This is a phony. Lawrence On 30 Dec 2002, , John Lawson wrote: > > > The movie industry magazine Daily Variety has, every > Thursday, a > complete list of all films known to be in current > production. Any film of sufficient stature to have Kate > Winslet in it will most likely be listed there.... though > it is not infallible. Most large bookstalls and news outlets > in major cities carry DV and the Hollywood Reporter. It > shouldn't be too hard to verify. > > And usually prop people have their famous 'notebooks', as > well as more > than a dozen industry-specific publications, just for this > purpose. And most of the time they'd be a bit reticent to > name the movie and the principal talent right off the > bat.... I thought this guy's post was a bit naive, at the > least. Usually they represent themselves as working for > such-and-such Production Company - sometimes you dont' find > out the name of the movie until much later, after the gear > has been returned. > > From having been in the movie business for 15 years, and > from having > worked, prior to that, in two large Surplus companies who > relied heavily on prop rental, I never dealt with anyone who > came off as Mr. Fox does. > > YMMV > > > Cheers > > John > May you get halfway to heaven, before Satan learns you're dead or 3/4s of the way to the bar before your wife finds you've gone out. lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Dec 31 23:47:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:57 2005 Subject: A better new year Message-ID: <3E122B17.4457.7E30AB2@localhost> For a better new year, all that has to be done is make pretzels a couple of centimeters thicker. Most all the world will be delighted. A war-free year to all. Lawrence May you get halfway to heaven, before Satan learns you're dead or 3/4s of the way to the bar before your wife finds you've gone out. lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From voyager at iols.net Tue Dec 31 23:53:00 2002 From: voyager at iols.net (Mark Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:57 2005 Subject: Anyone have any experience replacing a Dallas 1287 with a 12887? In-Reply-To: <20021231215748.44103.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021231215043.00ab5ba0@mail.iols.net> At 01:57 PM 12/31/02, Ethan Dicks wrote: <snip> >Alternatively, has anyone here successfully performed surgery on a Dallas >module? I have disconnected the battery from a Mostek 48T02 from a SPARC >and soldered on an external Lithium cell, but the packaging makes it easy >to get access to the battery wires coming down from the top (I even put >the battery on a 9V battery snap so it's easier to replace) I haven't >heard of anyone doing this for the more sealed Dallas modules. > >So... anybody else suffer though this? > >-ethan Annoying surgery, not impossible. The battery's atop the IC, usually a CR1220 or so type cell, soldered to a couple pins. Not sure if I did this on a Dallas unit offhand, know I have done it on epoxy-potted and on clip-on plastic cover type RTC's. Myself, I put in a vertical battery holder and use CR2032's usually (Just have to stock one battery, then.) Mark