From donm at cts.com Thu Aug 1 00:05:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:26 2005 Subject: HPIB cables In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 31 Jul 2002, Don Maslin wrote: They are taken! And it happened in the first eleven minutes. - don > > I have a couple of HPIB cables available at $15 the pair, shipped. > They are: > 1 HP10833A ~42" > 1 HP92220R ~12" > > The 92220R has a right-angle connector at one end and the usual > straight connector at the other. (I wonder if the 'R' indicates > a right hand connector?) > > First come, first served. > - don > > > From lists at subatomix.com Thu Aug 1 00:34:01 2002 From: lists at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Vax 8600 on Ebay In-Reply-To: <3D47AEE7.1060305@internet1.net> References: <3D47AEE7.1060305@internet1.net> Message-ID: <6630506916.20020801003304@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, July 31, 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I thought this would be a good canidate to post to the list. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2042185013 > > Is the seller or bidder here on the list? That's me. I like big iron, but it is just too big for me. There are other vaxen that are still cool but are smaller and more compatible with my home's electrical feed. I have a 730, for instance. It needs a new home. I was waiting to see if someone was going to post a link to it. :-) I don't really expect the bids to go very high. eBay is just a way of getting the message out. What would be really cool is to get some PDP hardware in trade for it, but it is more important to find a good home for it. -- Jeffrey Sharp The email address lists@subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com. You may need to remove some bugs first. From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Thu Aug 1 02:45:00 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Fortran Coding Form Pads... In-Reply-To: <3D479F96.BF48323C@Vishay.com> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020801174315.00bafef0@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 10:28 AM 31/07/2002 +0200, Andreas Freiherr wrote: >I have heard that the gauge of today's railway tracks (1435mm or 4' >8.5"), and hence even the dimensions of Space Shuttle's boosters go back >to ancient Roman vehicles built to the width of two horse's backs, maybe >true or maybe not. But, why did punched cards have just 80 columns? I'd always been told that "standard gauge" was based on the track of The Rocket - Stephenson's first steam locomotive. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Thu Aug 1 03:39:01 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Okilaser 400 2Meg memory card Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E85@BUSH02> Bare card, no memory chips (takes 44256 DRAM). Anyone need one? Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Aug 1 05:14:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Fortran coding forms VS. dollar bills Message-ID: FYI the last year of large-size dollar bills (and larger denominations), was 1923. I personally own a Series 1923 1 Dollar bill and would be willing to scan it and measure it if there is interest... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From P.Gebhardt at gmx.de Thu Aug 1 05:16:07 2002 From: P.Gebhardt at gmx.de (P.Gebhardt@gmx.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Harddisks with SA1000 interface References: <3.0.6.16.20020731162459.4977d9ea@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20754.1028196798@www7.gmx.net> Thanks alot for your answers ! So the Apollo ,the Xerox Star and the S-100 Compupro are able to read these drives... Hmm, yes Joe, I intended to get such a machine for the drives, but I think that it will be quite impossible. And the Micropolis 1222 drive seems to be a really rare thing as nobody could give me a hint. The drives will probably way for the day, they'll be connected to such a machine which could take a long time... Anyway, thank you ! Pierre > Pierre, > > The S-100 Compupro computers supported the SA1000 interface. I have a > friend of mine that has one in his system. FWIW I have an Intel iSBC216(?) > Multibus card that also supports it but I don't have any software that > supports that card and I don't know enough details about the card to write the > necessary drivers. I recently got a hard drive for the Intel MDS 225. It > has an 8' hard drive in it but I haven't opened it up to see what kind. I > think it may use the iSBC 216 controller but I haven't checked. > > FWIW I have two Quantum 2040s that I'm saving for that specail project. > > BUT my guess is that in order to read those drives you're going to have > to mount them on the system that they were used on. I doubt any other > system will read them. > > Joe > > At 07:23 PM 7/31/02 +0200, you wrote: > >Hello everybody ! > > > >A Micropolis 8" HDD (1222-i), I got 1 year ago and anaother Quantum 8" > drive > >(Q2020) are equipped with a SA1000 Interface. I'd like to test (and save) > >them but I don't know wich systems support that kind of interface. > >Does anybody know any systems, which support these drives ? > > > >I found manuals for the Quantum drive but I found nothing for the > Micropolis > >drive on google. What is the configuration for the power connector ? > > > >Thanks alot for any help ! > > > >Pierre > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > >GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet. > >http://www.gmx.net > > > > > > -- GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet. http://www.gmx.net From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Aug 1 05:18:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Harddisks with SA1000 interface Message-ID: *Drool* I'd kill for a DN300 or 330 or any model of Apollo... especially a DN10000... hehe... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From allain at panix.com Thu Aug 1 06:31:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Fortran coding forms VS. dollar bills References: Message-ID: <001701c2394e$be1e8a20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I personally own a Series 1923 1 Dollar bill and > would be willing to scan it and measure it if there > is interest... Scan it next to (above/below) the punchcard, for reference. Sure there's interest! John A. From at258 at osfn.org Thu Aug 1 07:23:01 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Fortran Coding Form Pads... In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020801174315.00bafef0@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: I would have guessed that the gauge was based on the common tramway gauges of the time. Wasn't Stephenson involved with the Wyllam Dilly (sp?) engine? that could have been an influence. On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Huw Davies wrote: > At 10:28 AM 31/07/2002 +0200, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > > >I have heard that the gauge of today's railway tracks (1435mm or 4' > >8.5"), and hence even the dimensions of Space Shuttle's boosters go back > >to ancient Roman vehicles built to the width of two horse's backs, maybe > >true or maybe not. But, why did punched cards have just 80 columns? > > I'd always been told that "standard gauge" was based on the track of > The Rocket - Stephenson's first steam locomotive. > > Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au > | "If God had wanted soccer played in the > | air, the sky would be painted green" > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Aug 1 07:26:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: RFD: List-member database In-Reply-To: References: <3D484BF5.F84E911B@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020801082006.2d7f7f88@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:29 PM 7/31/02 -0500, you wrote: > > >> JP Hindin wrote: >> > There already exists a place with some of these features. >> > The ComputerShelter, www.computershelter.org, is supposed to be a >> > "Distributed Museum" where you can sign up as a "Curator", and then add >> > your machines to your Stash, showing to everyone what you have. > >On Wed, 31 Jul 2002, John Honniball wrote: >> I tried to sign up, but it complained that I'd left some fields >> blank in the sign-up form. I hadn't, though. Has anyone else >> been successful? For a non-US address? Do you have Cookies enabled? I've found that you normally have to have them enabled for sign-up forms. That's why I like GuideScope. It lets you selectively enable/disable cookies based on the sender. Joe >I'm unable to reproduce this. >Form is a bit clearer now - but as far as I can tell (Using NS4 and IE6 as >test clients) everything works like its supposed to. > >> And, does anyone have an e-mail address for the organiser of the site? >Erm. That'd be me. > >JP > > From at258 at osfn.org Thu Aug 1 07:28:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Harddisks with SA1000 interface In-Reply-To: Message-ID: When is the next time you'll be out this way? On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Will Jennings wrote: > *Drool* > I'd kill for a DN300 or 330 or any model of Apollo... especially a > DN10000... hehe... > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Thu Aug 1 07:38:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Anyone using their old Mac? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020801083651.00739af4@pop1.epm.net.co> At 03:58 AM 7/31/02 -0700, you wrote: > >Does anyone here still use their old (say pre-1990) Macintosh as a regular >practice? I use my mac IIci (with 48MB I think and 2GB) almost daily for data acquisition with a National Instruments card and Labview 2.11 . I have a daystar 040 accelerator for it, but it won't work with Labview. So if I'm going to do data acquisition, I pull the accelerator and plug the cache card. Not optimal, but I've gotten used to it. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Thu Aug 1 07:41:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Anyone using their old Mac? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020801084016.0073768c@pop1.epm.net.co> At 03:20 PM 7/31/02 -0400, you wrote: >Well, yeah. I use my SE/30 (and have spent way more money than is >sensible keeping it happy) on a semi-regular basis. I forgot about my SE/30; I also use it regularly with NCSA telnet to log to several of my unix machines. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From dogas at bellsouth.net Thu Aug 1 07:43:01 2002 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Anyone using their old Mac? References: <8f1148eb20.8eb208f114@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <001f01c23957$f1d4fa80$7762d6d1@DOMAIN> > > Does anyone here still use their old (say pre-1990) Macintosh as a > > regularpractice? No 'regular' old Mac use here, but my Apple Newton 130 took a piece of me with it when it gave up its ghost a few years ago. ;( - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From RCini at congressfinancial.com Thu Aug 1 08:15:02 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: C question Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5126CD5@MAIL10> Hello, all: I have another C issue that I can't seem to see the answer for, so I thought I'd throw it out to the masses. I'm deep into the Altair 680b emulation project (base code done, working on telnet access) and I'm experiencing problems reading a file stream into the memory array. Here's snippets of the code: byte *ppmem ; // pointer into memory array byte ucMem[3*65536] ; // actual memory-see defines below for usage // roms[] is an array of structures defining start-time loaded ROMs. Only one ROM now //(the monitor PROM), but flexible enough to allow bank-switched ROMs (not applicable //in the 680b but a leftover from the 6800 processor emulation code that was borrowed //for the project) // //MEM_xxx are defines for the offset into the ucMem array to various areas #define MEM_RAM 0 #define MEM_ROM 0x10000 #define MEM_FLAGS 0x20000 FILE *pFH ; // open file, etc. //create while loop to walk through roms[] array // Read ROM directly to memory. This works. ppmem = &ucMem[roms[i].iROMStart + MEM_ROM] ; fread(ppmem, sizeof(byte), roms[i].iROMLen, pFH) ; //this doesn't work... //fread(&ucMem[roms[i].iROMStart + MEM_ROM], sizeof(byte), roms[i].iROMLen, pFH) ; //...nor does this //fread((char *)ucMem[roms[i].iROMStart + MEM_ROM], sizeof(byte), roms[i].iROMLen, pFH) ; // Set flags for ROM memset(&ucMem[roms[i].iROMStart + MEM_FLAGS], 1, roms[i].iROMLen) ; So here's where I'm missing it. Under all three fread scenarios, the compiler doesn't throw a warning...they all compile cleanly. But only the first works. This sounds like one of those "What's the Bug" ads from DDJ. What am I missing? Rich From dittman at dittman.net Thu Aug 1 08:20:01 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Vax 8600 on Ebay In-Reply-To: from "Jeffrey Sharp" at Aug 01, 2002 12:33:04 AM Message-ID: <200208011315.g71DF6O32210@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > I thought this would be a good canidate to post to the list. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2042185013 > > > > Is the seller or bidder here on the list? > > That's me. I like big iron, but it is just too big for me. There are other > vaxen that are still cool but are smaller and more compatible with my home's > electrical feed. I have a 730, for instance. It needs a new home. I was > waiting to see if someone was going to post a link to it. :-) > > I don't really expect the bids to go very high. eBay is just a way of > getting the message out. What would be really cool is to get some PDP > hardware in trade for it, but it is more important to find a good home for > it. Speaking of which, this week I talked to someone that threw out a PDP-11/70 as they couldn't find anyone that would take it. I told him that if I'd known I'm sure someone here would probably be interested. He's going to join the list soon. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Aug 1 08:24:00 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Fortran Coding Form Pads... Message-ID: Speaking of odd screen widths, the Osborne I was 52 characters wide. With the 80-column upgrade, you could also get 104 characters on the Osborne's tiny screen. (Using 60-character lines in WordStar, the screen would jump-scroll whenever you reached the last part of a line -- a rea PITA. Until I got the 80-column upgrade, I would write using a 50-character line and reformat to 60 before printing.) -----Original Message----- From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 6:19 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Fortran Coding Form Pads... > > > Certainly, screen dimensions were modelled after punched cards: There > were 80 columns on a punched card, and once everybody was used to that > line length, it was an obvious choice to make the screen just as wide - > except for a couple of clever guys who made the screen 64 columns wide, > which happens to be a power of two. I've seen 132 column screens too (why 132???) but did anyone ever try to make a 128 column screen (or printer)? It would seem to be a logical size to make it, but I've never seen one. -tony From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Aug 1 08:52:01 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: C question In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5126CD5@MAIL10> from "Cini, Richard" at Aug 1, 02 09:13:47 am Message-ID: <200208011349.JAA06279@wordstock.com> And thusly Cini, Richard spake: > > // Read ROM directly to memory. This works. > ppmem = &ucMem[roms[i].iROMStart + MEM_ROM] ; > fread(ppmem, sizeof(byte), roms[i].iROMLen, pFH) ; > > //this doesn't work... > //fread(&ucMem[roms[i].iROMStart + MEM_ROM], sizeof(byte), roms[i].iROMLen, > pFH) ; This one _should_ work... Both are returning the address of the memory location. > > //...nor does this > //fread((char *)ucMem[roms[i].iROMStart + MEM_ROM], sizeof(byte), > roms[i].iROMLen, pFH) ; > This one is only returning the value at roms[i].iROMStart + MEM_ROM in array ucMem and casting it to a character pointer. What is happening with the second fread? Are you getting a SIGSEGV? Cheers, Bryan P.S. If you printf the pointer vals (with %p) of ppmem and &ucMem[roms[i].iROMStart + MEM_ROM] you should get the same address back. From allain at panix.com Thu Aug 1 09:00:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: C question References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5126CD5@MAIL10> Message-ID: <044c01c23963$7d95a5a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I wonder how your compiler isn't leading you to the right answer, it should, you look close to it. missing & fread ( (char *)&ucMem [ roms[i].iROMStart + MEM_ROM ], sizeof(byte), roms[i].iROMLen, pFH ); John A. From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Aug 1 10:28:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Teletypes (more update) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > "The Porsche 928s. A realistic alternative to Air travel." > > (Top speed 156 MPH) > Oh. Never mind. I had envisioned something big enough to _haul_ a > teletype. It has a roof, doesn't it? OB_CC1: I once transported two people and five DTC300s (on their stands) with a Honda Civic (and some rope) OB_CC2: The DTC300 did 132 characters per line, and used a 4004. > The last 150mph car I had was a '68 Charger with a TRW 383 and no > brakes to speak of. I still miss it. > Ever notice how many sysadmin/geek types are also into serious > horsepower? You can fit almost anything that you want into a 57 chevy wagon. From meltie at myrealbox.com Thu Aug 1 10:37:00 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Teletypes (more update) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1028216088.3551.4.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> On Thu, 2002-08-01 at 16:27, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > You can fit almost anything that you want into a 57 chevy wagon. What about another '57 Chevvy wagon? -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. From meltie at myrealbox.com Thu Aug 1 10:38:27 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Cruftiness rating Message-ID: <1028216090.3550.6.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> I saw this link on Slashdot on Monday, thought it was pretty funny. It's a measure of how much cruft a Windows PC accumulates throughout its lifetime. Funny to laugh at, but not on topic, you say. Well, The Register is carrying the story and a plea of help from its author: "However we would like your input. A community effort is required to produce MacOS, POSIX-compliant versions, and touch wood, versions for PalmOS, phones and *even VAXes too*." Input? Original link: http://www.ddj.com/documents/s=7453/ddj0208q/0208q.htm El Reg: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/26475.html alex -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. From mtapley at swri.edu Thu Aug 1 10:40:01 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Anyone using their old Mac? Message-ID: Sellam asked: >Does anyone here still use their old (say pre-1990) Macintosh as a regular >practice? Sorta. Every year me and a bunch of buddies get together to play computer network games. "Spaceward Ho" started the tradition, so we always play it as a point of ceremony, and my Mac Plus is always on the net and playing. I actually won with it last year. Likewise, I have the same machine set up so that the 2-year-old can play "Babysmash", the 6-year-old can play a Maze game, and the 9-year-old can use "Concertware", but those have not been very heavily used, just novelty value so far. Does that count? - Mark From tony.eros at machm.org Thu Aug 1 10:47:01 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Teletypes (more update) In-Reply-To: <1028216088.3551.4.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020801114517.03c44e90@mail.njd.concentric.com> At 04:34 PM 8/1/2002 +0100, you wrote: >On Thu, 2002-08-01 at 16:27, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > You can fit almost anything that you want into a 57 chevy wagon. > >What about another '57 Chevvy wagon? Maybe, if you crushed it first... :-) >-- > >Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance >like no-one is watching. From geoffr at zipcon.net Thu Aug 1 10:49:01 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (geoffr@zipcon.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Anyone using their old Mac? References: <3.0.2.32.20020801084016.0073768c@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <3d495850d784f5.63495587@zipcon.net> > At 03:20 PM 7/31/02 -0400, you wrote: > >Well, yeah. I use my SE/30 (and have spent way more money than is > >sensible keeping it happy) on a semi-regular basis. > > I forgot about my SE/30; I also use it regularly with NCSA telnet > to log to several of my unix machines. > one of these days I have to get my IICX up and running again :) it's sitting on a shelf (with it's 2 spare part machines) From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Thu Aug 1 11:35:03 2002 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: C question In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5126CD5@MAIL10> from "Cini, Richard" at "Aug 1, 2002 09:13:47 am" Message-ID: <200208011633.JAA19020@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > // Read ROM directly to memory. This works. > ppmem = &ucMem[roms[i].iROMStart + MEM_ROM] ; > fread(ppmem, sizeof(byte), roms[i].iROMLen, pFH) ; > > //this doesn't work... > //fread(&ucMem[roms[i].iROMStart + MEM_ROM], sizeof(byte), roms[i].iROMLen, > pFH) ; > > //...nor does this > //fread((char *)ucMem[roms[i].iROMStart + MEM_ROM], sizeof(byte), > roms[i].iROMLen, pFH) ; > > So here's where I'm missing it. Under all three fread scenarios, the > compiler doesn't throw a warning...they all compile cleanly. But only the > first works. Lack of warnings or code don't have anything to do with whether the code is correct... The last one is the easiest to figure out.... Call fread with the following parameters: 1. byte value at address (ucMem+roms[i].iROMStart+MEM_ROM) converted into a pointer to type char. 2. The value 1 (assuming byte is typedefed to "unsigned char") 3. The value stored in roms[i].iROMLen 4. The value stored in pFH. It's fairly easy to see why the first parameter is wrong... No warning is issued because the type of the first parameter is correct. Without the typecast, a warning should be issued. The previous two look equivalent to me. I don't really see a significant difference. Are you sure "i" and "roms" are set to what you think it should be. Personally, I would have written the first parameter as "ucMem+roms[i].iROMStart+MEM_ROM" as I think it more clearly represents what you mean. What is the error reported? What are the return values from fread? (You should be checking that the return value equals roms[i].iROMLen.) Eric From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Aug 1 11:48:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: C question In-Reply-To: <200208011633.JAA19020@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5126CD5@MAIL10> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020801114238.020dde08@ubanproductions.com> While you don't go into detail about what platform or compiler set you are using, you should keep in mind that fread() on a PC may require a different set of fopen() parameters than on a Un*x box. In particular, for the Cygnus GNU compiler tools on a PC, you need to specify that the file you are opening is binary by adding a "+b" to the options, otherwise you get very strange results. --tom From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Aug 1 11:53:00 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Teletypes (more update) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > "The Porsche 928s. A realistic alternative to Air travel." > > > (Top speed 156 MPH) > > Oh. Never mind. I had envisioned something big enough to _haul_ a > > teletype. > > It has a roof, doesn't it? > OB_CC1: I once transported two people and five DTC300s (on their > stands) with a Honda Civic (and some rope) > > OB_CC2: The DTC300 did 132 characters per line, and used a 4004. Didnt it use cards that are kind of the beginning of the STD bus? ISTR that the 4004 processor card was made by PROLOG... > > > The last 150mph car I had was a '68 Charger with a TRW 383 and no > > brakes to speak of. I still miss it. > > Ever notice how many sysadmin/geek types are also into serious > > horsepower? > > You can fit almost anything that you want into a 57 chevy wagon. > > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Aug 1 12:35:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30's available (was Re: Anyone using their old Mac?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Sellam asked: > > >Does anyone here still use their old (say pre-1990) Macintosh as a regular > >practice? Yesterday I saw a couple of Mac SE/30's out at university surplus. If anyone is interested in one, contact me off list. Cost will probably be $10 + shipping. I don't have mice, keyboards, or monitors, might be able to get mice and keyboards for $10-$15 per pair. I'm probably going to get myself one. Let me know as soon as possible if you want one, they might get thrown out, also... -- Pat From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Aug 1 12:45:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30's available (was Re: Anyone using their old Mac?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Yesterday I saw a couple of Mac SE/30's out at university surplus. If > anyone is interested in one, contact me off list. Cost will probably be > $10 + shipping. I don't have mice, keyboards, or monitors, might be able ^^^^^^^^ Uhh... Doc From RCini at congressfinancial.com Thu Aug 1 12:48:02 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: C question Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5126CD9@MAIL10> Erik: No errors or warnings are emitted by the compiler, so the way I'm determining that the various functions work or not work is by looking at a "core dump" of the emulator memory (performed by another routine). In all but the first example, the memory is empty (they remain the initialized value of 0). The first way, the emulator memory indeed shows the contents of the loaded ROM. I've "watched" the contents of the roms array and have also outputted the values to the debug screen. The values are as expected. Rich -----Original Message----- From: Eric J. Korpela [mailto:korpela@ssl.berkeley.edu] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 12:34 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: C question > // Read ROM directly to memory. This works. > ppmem = &ucMem[roms[i].iROMStart + MEM_ROM] ; > fread(ppmem, sizeof(byte), roms[i].iROMLen, pFH) ; > > //this doesn't work... > //fread(&ucMem[roms[i].iROMStart + MEM_ROM], sizeof(byte), roms[i].iROMLen, > pFH) ; > > //...nor does this > //fread((char *)ucMem[roms[i].iROMStart + MEM_ROM], sizeof(byte), > roms[i].iROMLen, pFH) ; > > So here's where I'm missing it. Under all three fread scenarios, the > compiler doesn't throw a warning...they all compile cleanly. But only the > first works. Lack of warnings or code don't have anything to do with whether the code is correct... The last one is the easiest to figure out.... Call fread with the following parameters: 1. byte value at address (ucMem+roms[i].iROMStart+MEM_ROM) converted into a pointer to type char. 2. The value 1 (assuming byte is typedefed to "unsigned char") 3. The value stored in roms[i].iROMLen 4. The value stored in pFH. It's fairly easy to see why the first parameter is wrong... No warning is issued because the type of the first parameter is correct. Without the typecast, a warning should be issued. The previous two look equivalent to me. I don't really see a significant difference. Are you sure "i" and "roms" are set to what you think it should be. Personally, I would have written the first parameter as "ucMem+roms[i].iROMStart+MEM_ROM" as I think it more clearly represents what you mean. What is the error reported? What are the return values from fread? (You should be checking that the return value equals roms[i].iROMLen.) Eric From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Aug 1 12:50:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30's available (was Re: Anyone using their old Mac?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > Yesterday I saw a couple of Mac SE/30's out at university surplus. If > > anyone is interested in one, contact me off list. Cost will probably be > > $10 + shipping. I don't have mice, keyboards, or monitors, might be able > > Uhh... Oh, right. Built in. /me kicks self. -- Pat From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Aug 1 12:54:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30's available (was Re: Anyone using their old Mac?) References: Message-ID: <3D4974CB.1050201@jetnet.ab.ca> Doc Shipley wrote: > On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > >>Yesterday I saw a couple of Mac SE/30's out at university surplus. If >>anyone is interested in one, contact me off list. Cost will probably be >>$10 + shipping. I don't have mice, keyboards, or monitors, might be able > > ^^^^^^^^ One disturbing trend nowdays is that 99% of the computers come with out any software or manuals. Sure you can get that machine for $10 but if the OS is bad or you want to install software you are out of luck. From Gavin.Haines1 at btopenworld.com Thu Aug 1 12:57:01 2002 From: Gavin.Haines1 at btopenworld.com (Gavin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Anyone using their old Mac? Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 1, 2002 6:00 pm, "Tom Owad" wrote: >I've got a couple of 128's that act as shelf supports for some of my >Commodore equipment - so I guess you could say that they are "still in >use" :-) Hi all. I have just subscribed. I have the following equipment. BBC Micro. 32k, Apple II+ 48k, Apple IIc, Macintosh Classic 4/80, Amiga A500, Macintosh LC II with Apple IIe card, Macintosh iMac Bondi Blue. Of all these only the iMac is in regular use. The LC II is sitting on the floor beside me. It is semi in use. Or rather it is ready for use to connect to the Internet should the iMac need to be sent for service (this has happened twice since I have had it). The other computers are all in the cupboard under the stairs. All are in working order, or were in working order. Projects I have done are: 1. Connected the Apple II to the BBC Micro using the games socket on the Apple and transfered data successfully. (hard) 2. Connected the BBC Micro to the Amiga and transferred data to a BBC Micro emulator program which runs on the Amiga. 3. Downloaded disk images off the Internet using the Mac Classic and transferred them to the Apple IIc using Mac ADT. 3. Connected the Apple II to the Amiga using serial card without instructions. Card is marked 7710A (hard) 4. Transferred data to the iMac from the LC II via the Internet. 5. Connected the LCII to the internet. (Easy) a) browsed the internet with Mac web (slow) b) used Eudora for email c) Claris emailer seems better 6. Connected the Mac Classic to the Internet using S7.1 and S7.5.5 7. Printed on Epson Stylus Color 740 from LC II. (Easy, send disk images of 68k version of printer driver which is on Bondi iMac's install CD). 8 Connected to Lost Gonzo using Cyberdog. Any telnet client will do. Is here: telnet://lost-gonzo.com Projects I have not been able to do. 1. Connect any Macintosh running System 6 to the internet 2. Connect a 5.25 Disk II drive to the LC II card http://home.swbell.net/rubywand/Csa2FDRIVE.html From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Aug 1 13:00:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: WTD: support ICs Message-ID: <200208011759.KAA00321@clulw009.amd.com> Hi By the way, there is a company in Texas some place that is actually making DTL and most likely RTL as well. They make parts for obsolete equipment. I've lost the url but I found it with a search on the web. I was always afraid to even ask what they were charging for the parts ( most were mil spec as well ). Dwight >From: "Arlen Michaels" > >on 31/7/02 3:12 PM, Ethan Dicks at erd_6502@yahoo.com wrote: > >> I am looking for some DTL chips to make a repro W706/W707 TTY >> interface set for my Straight-8 and PDP-8/S (got *no* serial >> I/O for them. :-( ) >> >> http://www.pdp8.net/w-boards/pics/w706.shtml?small >> http://www.pdp8.net/w-boards/pics/w707.shtml?small >> >> The chips there are: >> >> W707 >> MC799 Dual Power Buffer (1) >> MC790 Dual J-K Flip-Flop (8) >> MC724 Quad Input Gate (5) >> MC789 Hex Inverter (5) >> W706 >> MC790 Dual J-K Flip-Flop (9) >> MC789 Hex Inverter (6) >> MC724 Quad Input Gate (5) >> MC799 Dual Power Buffer (1) > >The MC7xx were RTL, not DTL. Motorola made them. They typically used a 3.6 >volt power supply, like the Fairchild uL9xx RTL series of the same era (late >'60s I think). > >Arlen Michaels > > From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Aug 1 13:19:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30's available (was Re: Anyone using their old Mac?) In-Reply-To: <3D4974CB.1050201@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > One disturbing trend nowdays is that 99% of the computers > come with out any software or manuals. Sure you can get that > machine for $10 but if the OS is bad or you want to install > software you are out of luck. Fortunately that hasn't hit purdue yet. No manuals, most of the time, but everything I've gotten that has a hard drive in it (which works) has had an OS also, and usually it also has all of the old user's data and applications still on it. Heck, I just got an IBM RS/6000 model 170 from there a few days ago, and it came with a full (but old) version of AIX on it, including all the old users data and apps. Around here, if it's not a PC, they don't know how to reinstall the OS it seems. -- Pat From mythtech at mac.com Thu Aug 1 13:21:01 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30's available (was Re: Anyone using their old Mac?) Message-ID: >One disturbing trend nowdays is that 99% of the computers >come with out any software or manuals. Sure you can get that >machine for $10 but if the OS is bad or you want to install >software you are out of luck. True on a general note, but at least with the SE/30 referenced, you can get System 6.0.8 from Apple's web site, as well as System 7.5.3 (and the .5 updater). Which means, really, you can fairly easily get that SE/30 resetup with an OS. And then there is NetBSD which runs on the SE/30 pretty happily (or so I have been told... personally, every time I get to the point of booting, something else on my SE/30 breaks, no fault of NetBSD... just a nasty string of coincidence). NetBSD is of course a free download as well. -chris From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Aug 1 13:23:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: WTD: support ICs References: <200208011759.KAA00321@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3D497B72.20502@jetnet.ab.ca> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi > By the way, there is a company in Texas some place that > is actually making DTL and most likely RTL as well. They > make parts for obsolete equipment. I've lost the url > but I found it with a search on the web. I was always > afraid to even ask what they were charging for the > parts ( most were mil spec as well ). > Dwight Just for fun I decided to search for "TTL DTL" on the web. Here is a bit of information old japanese chips that could have be used in some early calulators. http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~hilpert/eec/ics/JMOS.html From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Aug 1 13:29:00 2002 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Way OT How to set Microsoft Outlook as plain ASCII only. Message-ID: I'm tired of bothering you'll with the mime junk. My clueless helpdesk can't help. I don't use address books. I'm forced to use outlook. How do I set all of my messages to plain ASCII? I've tried google searches and even read the book at the library, I'm still sending MIME. I tried just lurking but I want to contribute. Thanks Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020801/a2258100/attachment.html From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Aug 1 13:37:00 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Way OT How to set Microsoft Outlook as plain ASCII only. Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467AD5@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: McFadden, Mike > > I'm tired of bothering you'll with the mime junk. My clueless helpdesk > can't help. I don't use address books. I'm forced to use outlook. How > do I set all of my messages to plain ASCII? I've tried google searches and > even read the book at the library, I'm still sending MIME. I tried just > lurking but I want to contribute. > > Thanks > Mike > mmcfadden@cmh.edu > You're using it on a PC, right? Well, on a per-message basis, you can change it under the Format menu, then select Plain Text. For all new outgoing messages, it's under Options, the IIRC, Mail format... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From lincoln.fessenden at verizon.net Thu Aug 1 14:23:01 2002 From: lincoln.fessenden at verizon.net (linc fessenden) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Vax 8600 on Ebay In-Reply-To: <200208011315.g71DF6O32210@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > Speaking of which, this week I talked to someone that threw out > a PDP-11/70 as they couldn't find anyone that would take it. I > told him that if I'd known I'm sure someone here would probably > be interested. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!! Heretic! -- -Linc Fessenden In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Aug 1 14:24:48 2002 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Plato terminal References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151309@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3D494D19.549F7A0F@atarimuseum.com> Doug, Besides collecting it, is there anything you can do with it??? Has anyone found any of the original CDC Plato servers and been able to restore them to some functionality so that Plato terminals could be connected and tried out??? I own several of the Atari 800 Plato carts that turn an Atari into a Plato Terminal using the Graphics 8 mode with animated graphics. I remember first signing up and trying it out in 1984-85 or so I was was amazed at the speed in which code was sent to the computer to draw graphics, create animations and so forth. Curt Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > This is two years late, but the terminal the original poster describes > > sounds like an IST (model 1), a CRT-based CDC product, vintage about 1978. > > There was a later edition called the IST-II, also CDC. It had two 8" drives > > and a Z-80 CPU, as well as connectivity to CDC PLATO mainframe systems, > > either by dialup modem (1200 bps) or multiplexer. > > Actually, I was the original poster; a reply to me mentioned the > terminal you're describing. > > > The IST is not the oldest PLATO terminal, but it is the oldest that CDC > > manufactured, I suspect. Even my PLATO IV (Magnavox, 1971) is not the > > oldest, but only the first mass-produced machine. The earliest ones date to > > about 1961 and there are probably only two or three still in existence, if > > we're lucky enough to have that many. A precursor to these would be Norman > > Crowder's Auto-Tutor, vintage about 1958, which has characteristics very > > similar to the PLATO terminals (though it is not a computer terminal, it > > operates on filmstrip media), and PLATO's mechanisms are said to have been > > influenced by this machine. > > It's one of the mid-70s Magnavox plasma displays I'm looking for... > > Say, are you able to connect to NovaNET with the magnavox terminal? if > so, we should meet for a game of Empire or Avatar some time (although > I'm sure you'll wipe me out).... or maybe a more civilized game of chess... > > Regards, > -doug quebbeman From bill at timeguy.com Thu Aug 1 14:26:11 2002 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? Message-ID: <20020801111425.O45883-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> This is entirely OT, but since we're probably all gadget freaks here, I thought it would be a good place to ask. My "OnHand" PC watch recently bit the dust, so I'm in the market for a cool new toy to wear on my wrist. I've had various "DataBank" watches, a Timex DataLink, and the OnHand in the past. Not long ago I got a Kyocera PDA/Phone that handles most of the functions the watch used to provide, so now I'm just looking for something fun. I like BIG, HEAVY, INDUSTRIAL watches, so none of those effeminate little dressy things! I'm currently thinking about either a Casio camera watch, or a Timex "Internet Messenger" watch. Samsung has released a cell-phone watch in Japan, but not available in the US yet, priced at $1,000, and duplicates the function of my existing phone. Any suggestions? From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Aug 1 14:32:00 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20020801111425.O45883-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> from "Bill Richman" at Aug 1, 02 11:19:12 am Message-ID: <200208011930.PAA18917@wordstock.com> And thusly Bill Richman spake: > > $1,000, and duplicates the function of my existing phone. Any > suggestions? > How about a Seiko TV Watch? :) http://members.shaw.ca/kevinmontgomery/index.htm http://slashdot.org/articles/02/07/05/2026209.shtml?tid=129 http://www.tvhistory.tv/Smallest%20TV.htm Cheers! Bryan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 1 14:34:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:27 2005 Subject: Anyone using their old Mac? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020801193308.75577.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gavin wrote: > Projects I have done are: > > 1. Connected the Apple II to the BBC Micro using the games socket on the > Apple and transfered data successfully. (hard) Did you write a bit-banger serial port for the Apple? That's what a buddy of mine did, c. 1984, when we needed to move some data between the Apple and a C-64 (the C-64 _has_ a TTL bit-banger serial port, out of the box). We moved individual sectors of Infocom's Sorcerer on top of a backup copy of Enchanter because I had Enchanter for the C-64 and not Sorcerer. Once we worked out the sector skew for the game engine, it worked fine. > Projects I have not been able to do. > 1. Connect any Macintosh running System 6 to the internet ISTR doing that with MacTCP 1.x (an addon install, not included in System 6) and a SCSI<->Ethernet box. I'm fairly certain that the ethernet box came with System 6 drivers, but if someone here knows that it flat-out can't be done, then I'm probably mistaken. I have never tried it with dial-up, if that's what you mean. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Aug 1 14:45:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? References: <20020801111425.O45883-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <3D498FDF.9070307@tiac.net> I'd reccomend a Citizen NaviHawk, especially if you fly or travel! Bill Richman wrote: >This is entirely OT, but since we're probably all gadget freaks here, I >thought it would be a good place to ask. My "OnHand" PC watch recently >bit the dust, so I'm in the market for a cool new toy to wear on my wrist. >I've had various "DataBank" watches, a Timex DataLink, and the OnHand in >the past. Not long ago I got a Kyocera PDA/Phone that handles most of the >functions the watch used to provide, so now I'm just looking for something >fun. I like BIG, HEAVY, INDUSTRIAL watches, so none of those effeminate >little dressy things! I'm currently thinking about either a Casio camera >watch, or a Timex "Internet Messenger" watch. Samsung has released a >cell-phone watch in Japan, but not available in the US yet, priced at >$1,000, and duplicates the function of my existing phone. Any >suggestions? > > From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Aug 1 14:49:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20020801111425.O45883-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: http://thinkgeek.com/stuff/gadgets/594f.shtml What every quissentential nerd needs. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bill Richman Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 12:19 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? This is entirely OT, but since we're probably all gadget freaks here, I thought it would be a good place to ask. My "OnHand" PC watch recently bit the dust, so I'm in the market for a cool new toy to wear on my wrist. I've had various "DataBank" watches, a Timex DataLink, and the OnHand in the past. Not long ago I got a Kyocera PDA/Phone that handles most of the functions the watch used to provide, so now I'm just looking for something fun. I like BIG, HEAVY, INDUSTRIAL watches, so none of those effeminate little dressy things! I'm currently thinking about either a Casio camera watch, or a Timex "Internet Messenger" watch. Samsung has released a cell-phone watch in Japan, but not available in the US yet, priced at $1,000, and duplicates the function of my existing phone. Any suggestions? From mythtech at mac.com Thu Aug 1 14:50:24 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? Message-ID: >I like BIG, HEAVY, INDUSTRIAL watches, so none of those effeminate >little dressy things! It isn't really gadgety... but I feel I need to say it anyway. DO NOT buy a Pulsar Spoon watch. They are more on the "dressy" side, but they are definitly big and heavy... and they suck royal ass!!! A friend of mine talked me into buying one (he used to sell them at an upscale watch store, the place had things like Movado's and Rolex, and a typical watch there was $4,000). I wanted a digital watch that went against the norm and had a black display with highlighted numbers rather than the norm grey/white display with shadowed numbers. The spoon has that (black display, with a red light to illuminate the numbers... display looks very much like an old LED TI calculator). It was one of the cheapest watches they sold there at $160. It broke about a month after I got it (light stopped working... and you NEED the light to see the display). It went back, was repaired (after about a 6 week wait). Then about 3 or 4 months later... broke again... went back again, was repaired (another 6 weeks). Repeat as needed. It has been back 4 times total... and as of right now, the light turns on when you just brush the watch, and all other buttons work when they want to. When I bitched to my friend that the watch sucks shit... he told me "What do you expect for a $160 watch"... oh, I don't know... for $160 I expect it will offer me head! I am in the process of digging out my $20 Casio that I had prior... it also had a black display (with grey numbers), and unlike this attractive peice of shit on my wrist now... it worked just fine. -chris From kentborg at borg.org Thu Aug 1 14:52:01 2002 From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20020801111425.O45883-100000@outpost.timeguy.com>; from bill@timeguy.com on Thu, Aug 01, 2002 at 11:19:12AM -0500 References: <20020801111425.O45883-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <20020801154912.A16991@borg.org> On Thu, Aug 01, 2002 at 11:19:12AM -0500, Bill Richman wrote: > This is entirely OT, but since we're probably all gadget freaks here Let me ask a related question that is a little bit more on topic for being about something old. Does anyone here remember the following watch: - Frequently had full page ad in Science News, early 80s I think it was; - top (face) of watch was solar cell; - front endge of watch was LED display that was dark unless you pressed a button; - guts were potted and sealed; - control was through magnetic switchs, preserving seal; - and for the really cool feature, the precise speed at which the watch ran could be trimmed as a soft configuration setting. Ring any bells? -kb, the Kent who couldn't afford it then but maybe could now, if he could find one. From mythtech at mac.com Thu Aug 1 14:54:01 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: Anyone using their old Mac? Message-ID: >ISTR doing that with MacTCP 1.x (an addon install, not included >in System 6) and a SCSI<->Ethernet box. I'm fairly certain that >the ethernet box came with System 6 drivers, but if someone here >knows that it flat-out can't be done, then I'm probably mistaken. >I have never tried it with dial-up, if that's what you mean. I don't recall if I have ever personally done it... but I see no reason it CAN'T be done. There are MacTCP drivers for System 6, and at least the Asante SCSI->Ethernet box has System 6 drivers available. There are also System 6 drivers for the Farallon Etherwave localtalk->ethernet adaptor, however, the Etherwave doesn't support TCP/IP (limit of the Appletalk, not of the etherwave), so you have to use MacIP (TCP/IP wrapped in AppleTalk), and a MacIP to TCP/IP bridge (like IPNetRouter running on another Mac). And again, I see no reason it can't be done. -chris From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Aug 1 15:05:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? References: <20020801111425.O45883-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> <20020801154912.A16991@borg.org> Message-ID: <3D49946E.3030204@tiac.net> I remember this watch, it was rated for 90G's of shock resistance or something... This goes back to 1978 or 1979 I think, but I clearly remember the unique case style! Kent Borg wrote: >On Thu, Aug 01, 2002 at 11:19:12AM -0500, Bill Richman wrote: > >>This is entirely OT, but since we're probably all gadget freaks here >> > >Let me ask a related question that is a little bit more on topic for >being about something old. > >Does anyone here remember the following watch: > > - Frequently had full page ad in Science News, early 80s I think it > was; > > - top (face) of watch was solar cell; > > - front endge of watch was LED display that was dark unless you > pressed a button; > > - guts were potted and sealed; > > - control was through magnetic switchs, preserving seal; > > - and for the really cool feature, the precise speed at which the > watch ran could be trimmed as a soft configuration setting. > >Ring any bells? > > >-kb, the Kent who couldn't afford it then but maybe could now, if he >could find one. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020801/345ca639/attachment.html From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Aug 1 15:07:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20020801111425.O45883-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> References: <20020801111425.O45883-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <33690.64.169.63.74.1028232398.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I like BIG, HEAVY, INDUSTRIAL watches, > so none of those effeminate little dressy things! You obviously need an HP-01. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Aug 1 15:14:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: Anyone using their old Mac? In-Reply-To: <20020801193308.75577.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020801193308.75577.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <33701.64.169.63.74.1028232793.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > We moved individual sectors of Infocom's Sorcerer on top > of a backup copy of Enchanter because I had Enchanter for the C-64 and > not Sorcerer. Once we worked out the sector skew for the game engine, > it worked fine. I doubt anyone cares about it now, but I finally scanned a listing of my commented reverse-engineered source code to the Apple ][ interpreter and put a PDF file on my web site: http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/if/zip/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 1 15:48:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: Infocom Interpreters for the 6502 (was Re: Anyone using their old Mac?) In-Reply-To: <33701.64.169.63.74.1028232793.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <20020801204709.57123.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Smith wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > We moved individual sectors of Infocom's Sorcerer on top > > of a backup copy of Enchanter because I had Enchanter for the C-64 and > > not Sorcerer. Once we worked out the sector skew for the game engine, > > it worked fine. > > I doubt anyone cares about it now, but I finally scanned a listing of > my commented reverse-engineered source code to the Apple ][ interpreter > and put a PDF file on my web site: > > http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/if/zip/ _I_ care! I reverse-engineered and mostly commented the C-64 interpreter. Haven't posted it yet. Mine is live source that compiles byte-exact (including cruft!) I even added conditionals to support versions for the VIC-20 (with lots of RAM - tested under VICE) and the PET (32K Basic 2.0 PET, also tested under VICE until I can repair my old 2001). I'm holding back the source until I fix the BASIC 4.0 bug (I think I am reusing a zero-page location that is being whacked by $FFD2 or the "editor" routines in the $E000 ROM. If I knew which one it was, I'd modify my zero-page usage. I haven't had time in the past few years to put the finishing touches on this, but it's on my ever-growing list... Binaries at: http://penguincentral.com/retrocomputing/PET/ -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com From foo at siconic.com Thu Aug 1 15:51:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20020801154912.A16991@borg.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Kent Borg wrote: > Does anyone here remember the following watch: > > - Frequently had full page ad in Science News, early 80s I think it > was; > > - top (face) of watch was solar cell; > > - front endge of watch was LED display that was dark unless you > pressed a button; > > - guts were potted and sealed; > > - control was through magnetic switchs, preserving seal; > > - and for the really cool feature, the precise speed at which the > watch ran could be trimmed as a soft configuration setting. > > Ring any bells? No, but this reminds me of the coolest watch I ever had. It had two analog dials on the front as well as a digital readout. It was cool watching the analog dials spin around when you were resetting it for doing stop-watch functions. But here's the kicker: it had a temperature sensor on it and could tell you the temperature as well! Fairly useless, but for a 14 year old kid it was the coolest effen watch ever. I actually bought it during a trip to Syria, and when I got back home some doofus at my school coveted it and so went and found the same watch a couple weeks later. I know imitation is the sincerest form of flattery but that's just lame. Anyway, it sits disassembled in a baggie somewhere (I think right behind me on a shelf actually...nope, just the band; well anyway, it's somewhere) after I tried to replace the battery and my complete impatience and inability to get it back together again conspired to relegate it to the scrap heap. One day I'll find it and get it working again. BTW, I'm pretty sure it was a Casio. These days I prefer a cell phone with a time readout. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vaxzilla at jarai.org Thu Aug 1 16:01:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: Old MacOS NetTrek game? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Does anyone have a copy of the NetTrek game for MacOS? (And I don't mean the Netrek Unix game.) I used to play this all the time on the Mac SEs in my highschool. Some of the old Mac archives have the game listed, but none of them actually have the archive file. -brian. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 1 16:03:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: Anyone looking for a CDC 9766? Message-ID: <20020801210057.58853.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> When I was inspecting a Pyramid tower for Dan Cohoe today, the guy at dotcomliquidation was rolling out a CDC 6766 drive for a fellow from Virginia who rented a minivan and drove to Columbus to pick it up (important safety tip: the back deck of a minivan does not lift up high enough to allow adequate forklift clearance to rear-load a 600 lb disk drive. He will have some explaining to do when he returns the van ;-) I mention it because a) it sold for $25 and b) he has one more. If I had needed it (got plenty of Fuji Eagles and no 9766 platters) I might have bought it. The seller offered the second drive to me on the spot for the same price. I was a little disappointed in what they had there - *lots* of copiers (90% end up in the crusher he said), wads of phone and PBX equipment (including a 20 cabinet Lucent switch that he was going to offer at $60K to start). Virtually no DEC equipment beyond a couple of semi- modern storage arrays in the $100-$500 range. I'll probably pop by his eBay list from time to time - shipping is no hassle for me - they are 6 miles from work. So... if you are *really* interested in a 9766, write me and I'll do what I can to hook you up. I do *not* own a vehicle that will be suitable to take it to my house. I don't mind storing it for someone for a reasonable interval (weeks, not years), but I personally have no way to get it there. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com From foo at siconic.com Thu Aug 1 16:04:25 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: C question In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5126CD9@MAIL10> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Cini, Richard wrote: > No errors or warnings are emitted by the compiler, so the way I'm > determining that the various functions work or not work is by looking at a > "core dump" of the emulator memory (performed by another routine). In all > but the first example, the memory is empty (they remain the initialized > value of 0). The first way, the emulator memory indeed shows the contents of > the loaded ROM. > > I've "watched" the contents of the roms array and have also > outputted the values to the debug screen. The values are as expected. And you've done this in both instances? As others do, I find it odd that this form doesn't work: fread(&ucMem[roms[i].iROMStart + MEM_ROM], sizeof(byte),roms[i].iROMLen, pFH); I don't have my C references with me but fread expects a void pointer (void *) for the memory address, right? Have you tried casting it as a byte pointer (byte *) to be more explicit? I can't see how this would change things but maybe you have a weird compiler. Aren't you using Visual C++? Let's look at it another way: fread(&(ucMem[roms[i].iROMStart + MEM_ROM]), sizeof(byte),roms[i].iROMLen, pFH); By putting the array cell in parentheses, the value of that cell will be used as the address, right? Maybe this is how the compiler is parsing this, which would then read the data into an unintended location. At this point I usually just go with what works and chalk it up to a lame compiler :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Thilo.Schmidt at unix-ag.org Thu Aug 1 16:06:01 2002 From: Thilo.Schmidt at unix-ag.org (Thilo Schmidt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20020801154912.A16991@borg.org> Message-ID: On 01-Aug-2002 Kent Borg wrote: > On Thu, Aug 01, 2002 at 11:19:12AM -0500, Bill Richman wrote: >> This is entirely OT, but since we're probably all gadget freaks here > > Let me ask a related question that is a little bit more on topic for > being about something old. > > Does anyone here remember the following watch: [...] > Ring any bells? *Ring* http://www.ledwatches.net/articles/Synchronar%202100%20Solar%20LED%20Watch.htm bye Thilo From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Aug 1 16:20:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? References: <20020801111425.O45883-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <3D49A522.20908@jetnet.ab.ca> Bill Richman wrote: > This is entirely OT, but since we're probably all gadget freaks here, I > thought it would be a good place to ask. My "OnHand" PC watch recently > bit the dust, so I'm in the market for a cool new toy to wear on my wrist. > I've had various "DataBank" watches, a Timex DataLink, and the OnHand in > the past. Not long ago I got a Kyocera PDA/Phone that handles most of the > functions the watch used to provide, so now I'm just looking for something > fun. I like BIG, HEAVY, INDUSTRIAL watches, so none of those effeminate > little dressy things! I'm currently thinking about either a Casio camera > watch, or a Timex "Internet Messenger" watch. Samsung has released a > cell-phone watch in Japan, but not available in the US yet, priced at > $1,000, and duplicates the function of my existing phone. Any > suggestions? > You ask ... Nixie tube watch! http://www.amug.org/~jthomas/clockpage.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Aug 1 16:34:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: Fortran Coding Form Pads... In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020801174315.00bafef0@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Huw Davies wrote: > I'd always been told that "standard gauge" was based on the track of > The Rocket - Stephenson's first steam locomotive. And what was IT based on? If you follow each stage back, eventually EVERYTHING resolves to the size of the king's body parts or his horse's ass. From kentborg at borg.org Thu Aug 1 16:47:01 2002 From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: ; from Thilo.Schmidt@unix-ag.org on Thu, Aug 01, 2002 at 11:03:08PM +0200 References: <20020801154912.A16991@borg.org> Message-ID: <20020801174637.A18989@borg.org> On Thu, Aug 01, 2002 at 11:03:08PM +0200, Thilo Schmidt wrote: > On 01-Aug-2002 Kent Borg wrote: > > Does anyone here remember the following watch: > [...] > > Ring any bells? > > *Ring* > > http://www.ledwatches.net/articles/Synchronar%202100%20Solar%20LED%20Watch.htm Yup! That's it. Now, how come there isn't one on ebay? -kb From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Aug 1 16:57:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: Teletypes (more update) In-Reply-To: <1028216088.3551.4.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> Message-ID: On 1 Aug 2002, Alex White wrote: > On Thu, 2002-08-01 at 16:27, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > You can fit almost anything that you want into a 57 chevy wagon. > > What about another '57 Chevvy wagon? 1) I did say "almost anything" 2) While not "in", it can certainly pull it. From spc at conman.org Thu Aug 1 17:16:00 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: C question In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5126CD5@MAIL10> from "Cini, Richard" at Aug 01, 2002 09:13:47 AM Message-ID: <200208012215.SAA31338@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Cini, Richard once stated: > > Hello, all: > > I have another C issue that I can't seem to see the answer for, so I > thought I'd throw it out to the masses. > > I'm deep into the Altair 680b emulation project (base code done, > working on telnet access) and I'm experiencing problems reading a file > stream into the memory array. Here's snippets of the code: > > First off, ``//'' is not a valid ANSI C-89 comment marker. I think it is now allowed under ANSI C-99 but I haven't read the spec yet. I'll assume your compiler allows it, since you are using it, but just forwarned---you can't assume an ANSI-C compiler supports it (and yes, I've had problems with that before). > byte *ppmem ; // pointer into memory array > byte ucMem[3*65536] ; // actual memory-see defines below for usage Technically this should probably be: byte ucMem[3ul * 65536ul]; > // roms[] is an array of structures defining start-time loaded ROMs. Only > one ROM now > //(the monitor PROM), but flexible enough to allow bank-switched ROMs (not applicable > //in the 680b but a leftover from the 6800 processor emulation code that was borrowed > //for the project) > // > //MEM_xxx are defines for the offset into the ucMem array to various areas > #define MEM_RAM 0 > #define MEM_ROM 0x10000 > #define MEM_FLAGS 0x20000 #define MEM_RAM 0ul #define MEM_ROM 0x10000ul #define MEM_FLAGS 0x2000ul (sorry to be so pedantic, but it helps narrow down the problems) > // Read ROM directly to memory. This works. > ppmem = &ucMem[roms[i].iROMStart + MEM_ROM] ; > fread(ppmem, sizeof(byte), roms[i].iROMLen, pFH) ; > > //this doesn't work... > //fread(&ucMem[roms[i].iROMStart + MEM_ROM], sizeof(byte), roms[i].iROMLen, pFH) ; > > //...nor does this > //fread((char *)ucMem[roms[i].iROMStart + MEM_ROM], sizeof(byte), roms[i].iROMLen, pFH) ; > > So here's where I'm missing it. Under all three fread scenarios, the > compiler doesn't throw a warning...they all compile cleanly. But only the > first works. > > This sounds like one of those "What's the Bug" ads from DDJ. What am > I missing? Make sure you are including stdio.h #include in the file; that will bring in the prototype for fread(): size_t fread(const void *ptr,size_t size,size_t nobj,FILE *stream); What type are roms[].iROMStart roms[].iROMLen If they aren't of type size_t, then you might want to change them to that, and see if they work then. I might be tempted to say you are triggering a compiler bug but you would have to check the generated code to make sure. You don't need the cast to (char *) in the third fread() example (since the pointer to fread() is void *) since the conversion will go: (void *((char *)ucMem...)) If my suggestions don't help, see if you can see the code its generating. -spc (So far, have found one compiler bug (IRIX ANSI C compiler under IRIX 4.0.x) and one Standard C library bug (GLIBC 2.mumble for the DEC Alpha architecture)) From spc at conman.org Thu Aug 1 17:25:01 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: C question In-Reply-To: <200208011633.JAA19020@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> from "Eric J. Korpela" at Aug 01, 2002 09:33:50 AM Message-ID: <200208012224.SAA31359@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Eric J. Korpela once stated: > > > So here's where I'm missing it. Under all three fread scenarios, the > > compiler doesn't throw a warning...they all compile cleanly. But only the > > first works. > > Lack of warnings or code don't have anything to do with whether the code > is correct... Oh, that reminds me, if you can, crank up the warning level on your compiler if you can, and track down every single one of them. I run my code through gcc -Wall -pedantic -ansi (although if the supplied system headers are messed up, I might drop the -ansi flag). Also, be aware that a unspecified char declaration char c; can cause c to be treated as a signed *or* unsigned quantity, depending upon the compiler, so the following code *may* not work on some systems: void foo(void) { char c; char buffer[256]; for (c = 0 ; c < 256 ; c++) { buffer[c] = c; } } Internally, C will treat the assignment to buffer[c] as: *(buffer + c) = c; And if c is treated as a signed quantity, then once you hit the value 128, what you get is (effectively): *(buffer - 128) = -128; which is *not* what you want. So beware of using chars as indicies. > Call fread with the following parameters: > 1. byte value at address (ucMem+roms[i].iROMStart+MEM_ROM) converted into > a pointer to type char. > 2. The value 1 (assuming byte is typedefed to "unsigned char") > 3. The value stored in roms[i].iROMLen > 4. The value stored in pFH. > > It's fairly easy to see why the first parameter is wrong... No warning is > issued because the type of the first parameter is correct. Without the > typecast, a warning should be issued. Actually, it's correct---it's a pointer. The declaration of fread() takes a void * as the first parameter, and *any* pointer type can be cast into a void * without problem, no typecast needed. -spc (Been there, ported the code, have the core file ... ) From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Thu Aug 1 17:28:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: Digital Watch Recommendations? References: <20020801111425.O45883-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <004501c239aa$b6205130$3200a8c0@winnt> > I like BIG, HEAVY, INDUSTRIAL watches, so none of those effeminate > little dressy things! I recently got a Citizen Eco-Drive Skyhawk to replace my aging Pulsar Pilot's watch. The Pulsar was a beefy watch, and the Skyhawk is heavier/larger yet. The Skyhawk is both analog and digiital. You can display different time zones on the analog and digital displays simultaenously. You can even create custom locations, for instance I have my local time zone defined as 'BCB' which is the local airport designator. It also displays UTC on it's own analog display, and 24 hr time on a different display. Of course, it has all the usual functions - day/date, daylight savings time, 3 alarms, stop watch, timers, etc. The big bonus is it is solar powered - never needs winding or batteries. In pitch black the second hand stops moving and the digital display goes out, but the hour and minute hands keep working The watch is supposed to go into a 'standby' mode after 3 days of darkness where nothing appears to be working, but it still maintains the time internally. This standby mode is supposed to be able to last for FOUR YEARS without light!. The hour and minute hands seem to have a very good glow in the dark substance on them, as I'm able to see them in my very dark bedroom after being asleep for 7 hours. I'd highly recommend the Skyhawk. It has the added benefit of a built in slide-rule / E6B flight computer. From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Aug 1 17:31:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Two to watch for (BOTH long ago discontinued): (NO, I won't part with them) Casio CFX400/CFX40: Scientific calculator watch. Also includes conversion to and from hex and octal. Most common long term problem is breakage of the case. Available with black plastic or chromed case, and black or white keyboard. Epson RC20: Early (but quite compact) wrist computer. Z80 (actually Hitachi? equivalent), ~8 K ROM, ~8 K RAM, serial port, touch screen. Has a few miscellaneous aps built in, such as world time, but they are all in Japanese. The manual (paperback book) is in Japanese, but assembly language listings are assembly language listings. It was apparently never sold outside of Japan. (Never could figure out how to tell it that Honoruru is WEST of here.) One of the accessories ia a "ROM ROADER" that connects to the serial port for copying contents of ROM or EPROM into the memory. From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Aug 1 17:43:01 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <004501c239aa$b6205130$3200a8c0@winnt> References: <20020801111425.O45883-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020801173952.0206ba78@ubanproductions.com> > I like BIG, HEAVY, INDUSTRIAL watches, so none of those effeminate > little dressy things! How about one of these: http://www.amug.org/~jthomas/watch.html --tom From liste at artware.qc.ca Thu Aug 1 17:48:05 2002 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: Latest find : IBM display writer Message-ID: So I walking up to a Dirty Garage (Vente de Garage Sale :) and spotted a grey box that looked like it might be some sort of Mac or stranger from the rear. Coming to the front, I see it is a dual 8 inch disquette drive! The owner of the dirty garage came up to me and, spying my Linux t-shirt, claimed it was Linux compatible. A good chuckle was had. However, the drive was part of a complete Displaywriter, which he was giving away. So I backed my car up and loaded it all in. - 6580 Electronics Module, display, keyboard - 6360 Diskette Unit - 5215 Printer Doco : - IBM Displaywriter System Customer Setup Guide - IBM Displaywriter KWIC [sic] Reference guide - 11 binders of Textpack tutorials (and documentation?) - Several sets of software. Haven't checked if it's multiple versions of same programs or many different programs - Many more 8 inch diskettes, including 5-10 unused still in plastic - 2 loose boards, in a bag w/ small piece of paper where upon it is written : "Defective, changed summer 93" in french I haven't fired it up yet to see if it works. However, I *must* get rid of it as I have no space for it. So, is anyone interested? My cost : FREE CHEAP. Of course, you pay for shipping from southern Quebec (which won't be cheap for something this heavy). Better yet, come and pick it up! I'd even be prepared to deliver it to somewhere close by (I'm in Estrie) or even Montreal (I go there often). If there are no takers w/in a month, I'll probably end up as landfill (except the diskettes). -Philip From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Aug 1 17:53:01 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: Teletypes (more update) In-Reply-To: <01cb01c238f7$00665820$6c000240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: > That's one day there and one day back plus one to load up and rest. A three > day trip. I have done the trip - I think it is something like 1200 miles each way. I am a "marathon" driver, and can do 900 miles a day if fresh, but 1200 is just too much. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 1 18:23:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: Anyone using their old Mac? In-Reply-To: <8f1148eb20.8eb208f114@bigpond.com> from "blacklord" at Aug 1, 2 12:43:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 396 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020801/c29cf05e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 1 18:24:44 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: Fortran Coding Form Pads... In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Jul 31, 2 09:55:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1236 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020801/4858afa2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 1 18:26:18 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: Multibus ST-506/QIC-02 (was: Re: SGI IRIS 1400 ...) In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Jul 31, 2 11:38:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1331 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020801/f5cbbdb2/attachment.ksh From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Aug 1 19:02:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: WTD: support ICs Message-ID: <200208020000.RAA00554@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I did some searches. First I found a company that is listed as having DTL devices form one of those master list of companies: http://www.mathiselectronics.com/ The only thing is that they do not list them on their web page. A little nore in depth search ( remembering that I might have actually posted information to this group in the past ) revealed: http://lansdale.com/homeprod.htm Of course, I was wrong, they were in Arizona and not Texas ( it was the desert that fooled me ). They have quite a listing of DTL parts in the Motorola section. If anyone does contact them for prices, could they let me know? I see they have a minimum $1000 order. Dwight >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" > >Hi > By the way, there is a company in Texas some place that >is actually making DTL and most likely RTL as well. They >make parts for obsolete equipment. I've lost the url >but I found it with a search on the web. I was always >afraid to even ask what they were charging for the >parts ( most were mil spec as well ). >Dwight > > >>From: "Arlen Michaels" >> >>on 31/7/02 3:12 PM, Ethan Dicks at erd_6502@yahoo.com wrote: >> >>> I am looking for some DTL chips to make a repro W706/W707 TTY >>> interface set for my Straight-8 and PDP-8/S (got *no* serial >>> I/O for them. :-( ) >>> >>> http://www.pdp8.net/w-boards/pics/w706.shtml?small >>> http://www.pdp8.net/w-boards/pics/w707.shtml?small >>> >>> The chips there are: >>> >>> W707 >>> MC799 Dual Power Buffer (1) >>> MC790 Dual J-K Flip-Flop (8) >>> MC724 Quad Input Gate (5) >>> MC789 Hex Inverter (5) >>> W706 >>> MC790 Dual J-K Flip-Flop (9) >>> MC789 Hex Inverter (6) >>> MC724 Quad Input Gate (5) >>> MC799 Dual Power Buffer (1) >> >>The MC7xx were RTL, not DTL. Motorola made them. They typically used a >3.6 >>volt power supply, like the Fairchild uL9xx RTL series of the same era >(late >>'60s I think). >> >>Arlen Michaels >> >> > > > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Aug 1 19:04:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: Vax 8600 on Ebay Message-ID: Oh I don't know, hearing about an 11/70 being thrown out doesn't bother me too much.. I think its much worse that the guy who formerly owned my Honeywell threw away 4 hard disks, 6 tape drives, all the manuals, and all the software, a whole month before I called him... At least 11/70 manuals and SW aren't made of unobtainium, at least not compared to DPS-6 stuff.. Or the people I know who my dad wouldn't call until I cleaned up the house that in the meantime figured I wasn't interested and threw out their Primes... : ( Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Aug 1 19:29:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: Anyone using their old Mac? In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Aug 1, 2 11:24:17 pm" Message-ID: <200208020036.RAA11112@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > Does anyone here still use their old (say pre-1990) Macintosh as a > > > regularpractice? > > > > I've got a couple of 128's that act as shelf supports for some of my > > Commodore equipment - so I guess you could say that they are "still in > > use" :-) > > When I first read that, I read the '128' as 'C128' and wondered how on > earth a Commodore 128 could be used to support anything... Assuming you mean physical support, since I have a C128 that sits around as a RAM disk file server, it does have a nice door-stop like shape ... but if anyone does this to a working C128, I'll eviscerate 'em. :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The most valuable antiques are old friends. -------------------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Aug 1 19:31:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: Old MacOS NetTrek game? In-Reply-To: from Brian Chase at "Aug 1, 2 02:00:43 pm" Message-ID: <200208020038.RAA07816@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Does anyone have a copy of the NetTrek game for MacOS? (And I don't > mean the Netrek Unix game.) I used to play this all the time on the Mac > SEs in my highschool. Some of the old Mac archives have the game > listed, but none of them actually have the archive file. Ooo. I'd like to get a copy of this too. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The moon may be smaller than the Earth, but it's farther away. ------------- From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Aug 1 20:43:00 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: Old MacOS NetTrek game? In-Reply-To: <200208020038.RAA07816@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200208020038.RAA07816@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: > > Does anyone have a copy of the NetTrek game for MacOS? (And I don't >> mean the Netrek Unix game.) I used to play this all the time on the Mac >> SEs in my highschool. Some of the old Mac archives have the game >> listed, but none of them actually have the archive file. > >Ooo. I'd like to get a copy of this too. I always liked playing Marathon over a LAN between a bunch of Centris 610's. Wouldn't mind finding a usable copy either since my disks seem to be corrupted. That and Risk (both MacOS and DOS versions) were my favorite games. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jpdavis at gorge.net Thu Aug 1 20:52:01 2002 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? References: <20020801111425.O45883-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> <33690.64.169.63.74.1028232398.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3D49E4FC.7020404@gorge.net> Eric Smith wrote: >>I like BIG, HEAVY, INDUSTRIAL watches, >>so none of those effeminate little dressy things! >> >> > >You obviously need an HP-01. > > > > > > I think this is what you remember http://www.nawcc.org/museum/cwmonth/synchronar.htm Jim Davis. From jrasite at eoni.com Thu Aug 1 21:05:01 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: Anyone using their old Mac? References: Message-ID: <3D49E87F.8080304@eoni.com> The local Carnegie Library keeps their card catalog on a Plus. They were using a 128 until I upgraded them about a year ago.... Jim Mark Tapley wrote: > Sellam asked: > > >>Does anyone here still use their old (say pre-1990) Macintosh as a regular >>practice? > > > Sorta. Every year me and a bunch of buddies get together to play computer > network games. "Spaceward Ho" started the tradition, so we always play it > as a point of ceremony, and my Mac Plus is always on the net and playing. I > actually won with it last year. > > Likewise, I have the same machine set up so that the 2-year-old can play > "Babysmash", the 6-year-old can play a Maze game, and the 9-year-old can > use "Concertware", but those have not been very heavily used, just novelty > value so far. > > Does that count? > - Mark > > > . > From blacklord at telstra.com Thu Aug 1 21:16:01 2002 From: blacklord at telstra.com (blacklord) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: Anyone using their old Mac? Message-ID: > > > Does anyone here still use their old (say pre-1990) Macintosh > as a > > > regularpractice? > > > > > > I've got a couple of 128's that act as shelf supports for some > of my > > Commodore equipment - so I guess you could say that they are > "still in > > use" :-) > > When I first read that, I read the '128' as 'C128' and wondered > how on > earth a Commodore 128 could be used to support anything... > > -tony > Good god no! The Commodore 128's are far more useful than the early Macs! cheers, Lance ---------------- Powered by telstra.com From claudew at videotron.ca Thu Aug 1 21:18:00 2002 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: Plato terminal References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151309@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> <3D494D19.549F7A0F@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <00b101c239ca$a17d0fa0$6400a8c0@gamerclaude> Id love to see the old Plato running again. Does anyone here know anyone that worked or was involved in Plato closely and might be able to get some kinda "emulator" project going off the ground? Writing up a terminal emulator might not be dramatic but emulating the cybers that ran plato might be more of a challenge... This would be totaly wild and while I dont have a lotta time for stuff like this...this one would probably get some attention from me... And if I could find listing of some games I had written, Id go totaly wild...SPACE ATTACK was one of them. Seems TELUQ (Tele-Universitee here in Quebec) was very involved in Plato. But I have yet to find some people from "back then".... Claude ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curt Vendel" To: Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 11:00 AM Subject: Re: Plato terminal > Doug, > > Besides collecting it, is there anything you can do with it??? Has anyone > found any of the original CDC Plato servers and been able to restore them to some > functionality so that Plato terminals could be connected and tried out??? > > I own several of the Atari 800 Plato carts that turn an Atari into a Plato > Terminal using the Graphics 8 mode with animated graphics. I remember first > signing up and trying it out in 1984-85 or so I was was amazed at the speed in > which code was sent to the computer to draw graphics, create animations and so > forth. > > > Curt > > > Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > > This is two years late, but the terminal the original poster describes > > > sounds like an IST (model 1), a CRT-based CDC product, vintage about 1978. > > > There was a later edition called the IST-II, also CDC. It had two 8" drives > > > and a Z-80 CPU, as well as connectivity to CDC PLATO mainframe systems, > > > either by dialup modem (1200 bps) or multiplexer. > > > > Actually, I was the original poster; a reply to me mentioned the > > terminal you're describing. > > > > > The IST is not the oldest PLATO terminal, but it is the oldest that CDC > > > manufactured, I suspect. Even my PLATO IV (Magnavox, 1971) is not the > > > oldest, but only the first mass-produced machine. The earliest ones date to > > > about 1961 and there are probably only two or three still in existence, if > > > we're lucky enough to have that many. A precursor to these would be Norman > > > Crowder's Auto-Tutor, vintage about 1958, which has characteristics very > > > similar to the PLATO terminals (though it is not a computer terminal, it > > > operates on filmstrip media), and PLATO's mechanisms are said to have been > > > influenced by this machine. > > > > It's one of the mid-70s Magnavox plasma displays I'm looking for... > > > > Say, are you able to connect to NovaNET with the magnavox terminal? if > > so, we should meet for a game of Empire or Avatar some time (although > > I'm sure you'll wipe me out).... or maybe a more civilized game of chess... > > > > Regards, > > -doug quebbeman > From sloboyko at yahoo.com Thu Aug 1 21:43:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <200208011930.PAA18917@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20020802024240.9857.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com> Digital watches are passe'. You need a good Accutron single-transistor watch, still a marvel of electromechanical miniaturization, and a fascinating history. I expect mine to last a lifetime (as long as I can find someone to rebuild it every 5 years or so). --- Bryan Pope wrote: > And thusly Bill Richman spake: > > > > $1,000, and duplicates the function of my existing > phone. Any > > suggestions? > > > > How about a Seiko TV Watch? :) > > http://members.shaw.ca/kevinmontgomery/index.htm > http://slashdot.org/articles/02/07/05/2026209.shtml?tid=129 > http://www.tvhistory.tv/Smallest%20TV.htm > > Cheers! > > Bryan > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com From classiccmp at crash.com Thu Aug 1 21:57:00 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (classiccmp@crash.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: Tips/leads for Nat Semi 32k system(s)? Message-ID: <200208020256.g722u2G14005@io.crash.com> Anybody have a suggestion for locating some kind of system based on the Nat Semi 32k family? At this stage the only preference I'd state is that it be a vaguely "open" platform (e.g. CompuPro's old 32016 S-100 board - I'd love a system built around one of these) or run some flavor of Unix (a la Nat Semi's Genix boxes or the Tektronix workstations). I followed Bruce Culbertson's 32016 design way back when, and of course Dave Rand et alia's pc532 board. I even have a 32k design kit from Nat Semi around here somewhere, but never got started on my ambitious plans of building something from Bruce's design. Suggestions or even just reminiscences would be welcome. Thanks, --Steve. -- Steve Jones smj@spamfree.crash.com Arlington, Mass. CRASH!! Computing (Remove the "spamfree" portion) 781 / XXX - XXXX "Your information doesn't sleep. Why should your programmers?" From owad at applefritter.com Thu Aug 1 22:23:00 2002 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20020801111425.O45883-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> References: <20020801111425.O45883-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <20020802032201.27052@mail.earthlink.net> >This is entirely OT, but since we're probably all gadget freaks here, I >thought it would be a good place to ask. My "OnHand" PC watch recently >bit the dust, so I'm in the market for a cool new toy to wear on my wrist. >[...] >Any suggestions? I recently bought an inventory of new Seiko Datagraph UC-2001 watches. They have 2K of memory, a 40 character (1400 pixels) display, and basic notepad and calendar functions (the calendar is really just a notepad which it orders for you). The watch connects via a wireless connection to the interface box, which connects to the IIe via the joystick port. A version for the IIc was also offered, and I think it's just a matter of rewiring the cable. Likewise, it looks like the interface should be pretty straightforward (all it really sends is plain text) so it might not be too difficult to get it working with other computers. It's going to call for some experimentation. If you want, I can let you know when I'm ready to sell them. Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Aug 1 22:32:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 manual on eBay, Is this one of Us? Message-ID: <01af01c239d5$11c7f6d0$5c000240@oemcomputer> Check out the final selling price? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2040763188 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020801/b7d838a5/attachment.html From donm at cts.com Thu Aug 1 22:51:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: Plato terminal In-Reply-To: <00b101c239ca$a17d0fa0$6400a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Claude.W wrote: > Id love to see the old Plato running again. > > Does anyone here know anyone that worked or was involved in Plato closely > and might be able to get some kinda "emulator" project going off the ground? Well, when someone comes up with a CDC-110 smart termmiinal or emulator, I will be pleased to supply copies of the CP/M-2.2 and Diagnostics disks for it. - don > Writing up a terminal emulator might not be dramatic but emulating the > cybers that ran plato might be more of a challenge... > > This would be totaly wild and while I dont have a lotta time for stuff like > this...this one would probably get some attention from me... > > And if I could find listing of some games I had written, Id go totaly > wild...SPACE ATTACK was one of them. > > Seems TELUQ (Tele-Universitee here in Quebec) was very involved in Plato. > But I have yet to find some people from "back then".... > > Claude > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Curt Vendel" > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 11:00 AM > Subject: Re: Plato terminal > > > > Doug, > > > > Besides collecting it, is there anything you can do with it??? Has > anyone > > found any of the original CDC Plato servers and been able to restore them > to some > > functionality so that Plato terminals could be connected and tried out??? > > > > I own several of the Atari 800 Plato carts that turn an Atari into a > Plato > > Terminal using the Graphics 8 mode with animated graphics. I remember > first > > signing up and trying it out in 1984-85 or so I was was amazed at the > speed in > > which code was sent to the computer to draw graphics, create animations > and so > > forth. > > > > > > Curt > > > > > > Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > > > > This is two years late, but the terminal the original poster describes > > > > sounds like an IST (model 1), a CRT-based CDC product, vintage about > 1978. > > > > There was a later edition called the IST-II, also CDC. It had two 8" > drives > > > > and a Z-80 CPU, as well as connectivity to CDC PLATO mainframe > systems, > > > > either by dialup modem (1200 bps) or multiplexer. > > > > > > Actually, I was the original poster; a reply to me mentioned the > > > terminal you're describing. > > > > > > > The IST is not the oldest PLATO terminal, but it is the oldest that > CDC > > > > manufactured, I suspect. Even my PLATO IV (Magnavox, 1971) is not the > > > > oldest, but only the first mass-produced machine. The earliest ones > date to > > > > about 1961 and there are probably only two or three still in > existence, if > > > > we're lucky enough to have that many. A precursor to these would be > Norman > > > > Crowder's Auto-Tutor, vintage about 1958, which has characteristics > very > > > > similar to the PLATO terminals (though it is not a computer terminal, > it > > > > operates on filmstrip media), and PLATO's mechanisms are said to have > been > > > > influenced by this machine. > > > > > > It's one of the mid-70s Magnavox plasma displays I'm looking for... > > > > > > Say, are you able to connect to NovaNET with the magnavox terminal? if > > > so, we should meet for a game of Empire or Avatar some time (although > > > I'm sure you'll wipe me out).... or maybe a more civilized game of > chess... > > > > > > Regards, > > > -doug quebbeman > > > > > From mythtech at mac.com Thu Aug 1 23:35:01 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? Message-ID: >I recently bought an inventory of new Seiko Datagraph UC-2001 watches. >They have 2K of memory, a 40 character (1400 pixels) display, and basic >notepad and calendar functions (the calendar is really just a notepad >which it orders for you). The watch connects via a wireless connection >to the interface box, which connects to the IIe via the joystick port. A >version for the IIc was also offered, and I think it's just a matter of >rewiring the cable. Are these the watches that were sold in the late 80's and could interface with the Mac? I think they used a hypercard stack to download data to the watch, which I think was pretty much just plain text. I don't remember what the watch was called, but I think it might have been made by Seiko. I think they sold for about $100 new... I always wanted one, but never had the spare cash :-( -chris From foo at siconic.com Thu Aug 1 23:57:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:28 2005 Subject: Tips/leads for Nat Semi 32k system(s)? In-Reply-To: <200208020256.g722u2G14005@io.crash.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 classiccmp@crash.com wrote: > Anybody have a suggestion for locating some kind of system based > on the Nat Semi 32k family? At this stage the only preference I'd > state is that it be a vaguely "open" platform (e.g. CompuPro's old > 32016 S-100 board - I'd love a system built around one of these) > or run some flavor of Unix (a la Nat Semi's Genix boxes or the > Tektronix workstations). I have a Godbout 32032 board and I think also a 32016 or something like that. While I am not interested in selling it, I would let you borrow it for an extended period of time. If you don't have an S-100 chassis to stuff it in, I could provide you with one as well, but shipping to Mass. would be steep. Of course, I'd have to go digging for it, but I have a reasonable idea of where it might be. At least I know what box it's in, but I'd have to go digging for that box :) I could swear I have something else that's 32032-based but it escapes me at the moment. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cbajpai at attbi.com Fri Aug 2 06:22:01 2002 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 manual on eBay, Is this one of Us? In-Reply-To: <01af01c239d5$11c7f6d0$5c000240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <000b01c23a16$95da5300$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> No this Adam Goolevitch from Canada. I don't believe he is on the list. He is an avid Lisa collector..where he got his Lisa 1 stuff I have no idea, but I'm sure he is a happy guy. -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Keys Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 11:31 PM To: cctech@classiccmp Subject: Lisa 1 manual on eBay, Is this one of Us? Check out the final selling price? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item=2040763188 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020802/17840e6a/attachment.html From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Aug 2 07:18:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: Multibus ST-506/QIC-02 (was: Re: SGI IRIS 1400 ...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > third 4558 seems to have pin 4 grounded (according to an ohm meter), > > which seems strange, to say the least. > > No, it's possible to run them off a single supply. I think some of the > op-amps in my V150 are run just between the +12V line and ground. I > would have to check, though. Ah ok. I thought the 4558 required a dual supply. I should re-read the datasheet I suppose... Some of the other 4558 chips on other hybrid modules appear to be operating at +12V too. There are a large number of 4558 chips used on all the different hybrid hybrid boards. I'd guess there is at least 10, maybe more. There are some 8 pin dip ones mounted directly to the servo board too. > It may now be worth pulling the cover and taking a look. And of course > trying to spin it up with the cover removed, just to see what the heads > do Is it safe to try to spin the drive up without the HDA cover installed? I always assumed it wasn't safe, since the cover would help direct the flow of air around the heads and keep them from resting on the platter surface. -Toth From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Aug 2 07:53:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: HP 1000 video card??? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020802085437.13572f0a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found some odd looking HP 1000 cards yesterday. Can anyone identify them? I THINK they're for the A-series HP 1000s. They have three gold connectors on them that look like an over-sized SMA connector. The connectors don't have lugs, posts or threads on them but are about the size of a BNC connector. Next to the connectors are the letters R G B. There are several numbers on them but I think the part number is 12065-60001. They have a NEC 7220 Graphics controller IC and a 68008 CPU on them along with some other large ICs that are unmarked. Joe From owad at applefritter.com Fri Aug 2 07:55:01 2002 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020802125446.3455@mail.earthlink.net> >Are these the watches that were sold in the late 80's and could interface >with the Mac? I think they used a hypercard stack to download data to the >watch, which I think was pretty much just plain text. > >I don't remember what the watch was called, but I think it might have >been made by Seiko. I think they sold for about $100 new... I always >wanted one, but never had the spare cash :-( Possibly. These were made in 1985 and cost around $500, new. I don't have Mac software or cables, though. The interface box doubles as a real-time clock for the Apple II. It was made by Applied Engineering. Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 2 08:35:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: Anyone looking for a CDC 9766? In-Reply-To: <20020801210057.58853.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020802133421.62534.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> It has been claimed. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com From mythtech at mac.com Fri Aug 2 10:04:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: Fwd: [swap] ProFile looking for good home Message-ID: I got this on a Mac swap list today. Maybe someone in or near London wants to follow up and snag themselves a free Lisa Profile drive. (Or if someone wants to grab it for free, but doesn't want it, I'll be happy to pay shipping to have it sent to the US) ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- >Subject: [swap] ProFile looking for good home >Date: 8/2/02 8:02 AM >Received: 8/2/02 10:53 AM >From: BrianH, b.harding@qmul.ac.uk >To: LEM Swap List, lem-swap@mail.maclaunch.com > >-------------------- > >Hi, > >I've got an Apple Profile external drive - apparently suits Apple II or >Lisa?? Believed working, nothing to test with. FREE to good home - but must >_collect_ from Forest Gate, London, UK. > >Contact me and tell me why you should have it;> > > >-- > >Take care ..... > >Brian ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- -chris From mythtech at mac.com Fri Aug 2 10:09:01 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? Message-ID: >Possibly. These were made in 1985 and cost around $500, new. I don't >have Mac software or cables, though. > >The interface box doubles as a real-time clock for the Apple II. It was >made by Applied Engineering. Humm... I don't remember the one I am thinking of having an interface box. I think it just had a mini-din 8 to 1/32" phono plug that plugged into the side of the watch. Maybe the one I am thinking of was a repackaged version (or an updated version). I'll have to do some searching to see what I can find. Thanks -chris From mythtech at mac.com Fri Aug 2 10:28:01 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? Message-ID: >>Possibly. These were made in 1985 and cost around $500, new. I don't >>have Mac software or cables, though. >> >>The interface box doubles as a real-time clock for the Apple II. It was >>made by Applied Engineering. > >Humm... I don't remember the one I am thinking of having an interface >box. I think it just had a mini-din 8 to 1/32" phono plug that plugged >into the side of the watch. > >Maybe the one I am thinking of was a repackaged version (or an updated >version). I'll have to do some searching to see what I can find. Ok, I found this on it (I didn't mean to send my other email until I was done searching). This is from an old TidBits newsletter: -- Neatest Product: The WristMac, from Ex Machina (published by Microseeds Publishing), is a Seiko wristwatch that stores up to 80 two-line "screens" of data, such as phone numbers, appointments, and to-do lists, complete with an interface cable that connects to a Mac serial ports, so you can use the included HyperCard 2.0 stack to enter and manipulate the data. You can even have the watch's alarm function alert you of the appointments that you've entered into the database. -- There is a picture here (not a good one) http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~danbo/WRISTMAC.html It sounds like it might have been an off shoot of the same watch made for the Apple II. -chris From owad at applefritter.com Fri Aug 2 10:50:01 2002 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020802154918.12876@mail.earthlink.net> >Humm... I don't remember the one I am thinking of having an interface >box. I think it just had a mini-din 8 to 1/32" phono plug that plugged >into the side of the watch. Here we go. From Tidbits #36: "Neatest Product: The WristMac, from Ex Machina (published by Microseeds Publishing), is a Seiko wristwatch that stores up to 80 two-line "screens" of data, such as phone numbers, appointments, and to-do lists, complete with an interface cable that connects to a Mac serial ports, so you can use the included HyperCard 2.0 stack to enter and manipulate the data. You can even have the watch's alarm function alert you of the appointments that you've entered into the database." Here's a pict: . The biggest difference appears to be that these use a serial interface like you say, while the UC-2001's that I have use a wireless connection with an interface box. Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From owad at applefritter.com Fri Aug 2 11:05:00 2002 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020802160440.7447@mail.earthlink.net> Chris wrote: >Ok, I found this on it (I didn't mean to send my other email until I was >done searching). This is from an old TidBits newsletter: >[...] >There is a picture here (not a good one) >http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~danbo/WRISTMAC.html I wrote: >Here we go. From Tidbits #36: >[...] >Here's a pict: . Great minds search alike. :) Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From classiccmp at crash.com Fri Aug 2 12:57:00 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (classiccmp@crash.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: Tips/leads for Nat Semi 32k system(s)? Message-ID: <200208021756.g72HuWG15445@io.crash.com> Thanks Sellam, I'll keep that in mind. You'll understand, I hope, if I keep looking for one to acquire. I'd feel a little uncomfortable with something on loan if I let the project languish for a while (which, of course, NEVER happens...). I do have a nice 22 slot CompuPro S-100 cage, but mostly 8 bit S-100 gear. I'm open to any 32k based system, though I don't think I could fit an Encore or Sequent into the garage at the moment. Tektronix made some workstations, but I've no further information about them. Nat Semi had some interesting looking eval boards and systems. Anyway, if anyone finds something 32k-related that needs a home, please keep me in mind. Thanks, --Steve. -- Steve Jones smj@spamfree.crash.com Arlington, Mass. CRASH!! Computing (Remove the "spamfree" portion) 781 / XXX - XXXX "Your information doesn't sleep. Why should your programmers?" From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Aug 2 13:54:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: Teletypes (more update) References: Message-ID: <00e101c23a55$cc2abfa0$0d010240@oemcomputer> I think it may be more than 1200 miles as that's close to the distance from Houston and the Twincities (MN) and I drive that in 19 to 22 hours without a load. On return trips with a full 26 footer it's about 32 hours, with the longest taking 37 hours with rest stops. If I can work out a meet with someone to shorten the drive I may go but if not I will have to pass. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Donzelli" To: Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 5:51 PM Subject: Re: Teletypes (more update) > > That's one day there and one day back plus one to load up and rest. A three > > day trip. > > I have done the trip - I think it is something like 1200 miles each way. > I am a "marathon" driver, and can do 900 miles a day if fresh, but 1200 > is just too much. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Aug 2 14:15:00 2002 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: Latest find : IBM display writer References: Message-ID: <3D49BBEB.CE89623F@atarimuseum.com> I thought IBM Displaywriters were their line of daisywheel letter quality printers??? Curt liste@artware.qc.ca wrote: > So I walking up to a Dirty Garage (Vente de Garage Sale :) and spotted a > grey box that looked like it might be some sort of Mac or stranger from > the rear. Coming to the front, I see it is a dual 8 inch disquette drive! > The owner of the dirty garage came up to me and, spying my Linux t-shirt, > claimed it was Linux compatible. A good chuckle was had. > > However, the drive was part of a complete Displaywriter, which he was > giving away. So I backed my car up and loaded it all in. > > - 6580 Electronics Module, display, keyboard > - 6360 Diskette Unit > - 5215 Printer > > Doco : > - IBM Displaywriter System Customer Setup Guide > - IBM Displaywriter KWIC [sic] Reference guide > - 11 binders of Textpack tutorials (and documentation?) > > - Several sets of software. Haven't checked if it's multiple versions of > same programs or many different programs > - Many more 8 inch diskettes, including 5-10 unused still in plastic > - 2 loose boards, in a bag w/ small piece of paper where upon it is > written : "Defective, changed summer 93" in french > > I haven't fired it up yet to see if it works. However, I *must* > get rid of it as I have no space for it. So, is anyone interested? My > cost : FREE CHEAP. Of course, you pay for shipping from southern Quebec > (which won't be cheap for something this heavy). Better yet, come and > pick it up! I'd even be prepared to deliver it to somewhere close by (I'm > in Estrie) or even Montreal (I go there often). > > If there are no takers w/in a month, I'll probably end up as landfill > (except the diskettes). > > -Philip From smj at crash.com Fri Aug 2 14:17:53 2002 From: smj at crash.com (Steven M. Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: Tips/leads for Nat Semi 32k system(s)? Message-ID: <200208012310.g71NAxG13572@buserr.crash.com> Anybody have a suggestion for locating some kind of system based on the Nat Semi 32k family? At this stage the only preference I'd state is that it be a vaguely "open" platform (e.g. CompuPro's old 32016 S-100 board - I'd love a system built around one of these) or run some flavor of Unix (a la Nat Semi's Genix boxes or the Tektronix workstations). I followed Bruce Culbertson's 32016 design way back when, and of course Dave Rand et alia's pc532 board. I even have a 32k design kit from Nat Semi around here somewhere, but never got started on my ambitious plans of building something from Bruce's design. Suggestions or even just reminiscences would be welcome. Thanks, --Steve. -- Steve Jones uunet!crash.com!smj Arlington, Mass. CRASH!! Computing http://www.crash.com/people/smj 781 / XXX - XXXX "Your information doesn't sleep. Why should your programmers?" From bill at timeguy.com Fri Aug 2 14:20:43 2002 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20020802024240.9857.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020802094643.B48669-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Au contraire - Accutrons are passe'. My partner collects them and repairs them. (Still pretty cool, though.) He also does pocket watches, which has led me to wonder about taking a pocket watch case and installing the electronics from my OnHand PC in it, just for the sake of contrast. I'm also considering the Timex "Internet Messenger" watches; right now they've got a deal where you get a year's free service with unlimited text messages, e-mails, etc. sent to the watch. On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Loboyko Steve wrote: > Digital watches are passe'. You need a good Accutron > single-transistor watch, still a marvel of > electromechanical miniaturization, and a fascinating > history. I expect mine to last a lifetime (as long as > I can find someone to rebuild it every 5 years or so). > > > --- Bryan Pope wrote: > > And thusly Bill Richman spake: > > > > > > $1,000, and duplicates the function of my existing > > phone. Any > > > suggestions? > > > > > > > How about a Seiko TV Watch? :) > > > > http://members.shaw.ca/kevinmontgomery/index.htm > > > http://slashdot.org/articles/02/07/05/2026209.shtml?tid=129 > > http://www.tvhistory.tv/Smallest%20TV.htm > > > > Cheers! > > > > Bryan > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > http://health.yahoo.com > From nathan.r.maki at intel.com Fri Aug 2 14:23:28 2002 From: nathan.r.maki at intel.com (Maki, Nathan R) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: HP 150 manuals and software FS Message-ID: <288F9BF66CD9D5118DF400508B68C44601A38358@orsmsx113.jf.intel.com> I know this message is dated but I was wondering if you still had the HP 150 owner's guide and the series 100 PCF. Is that the version of the PCF that will run on the HP 150? If so does it matter what what version of the HP 150 (A,B,C)? Thanks, Nate From melgordon1955 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 2 14:26:14 2002 From: melgordon1955 at yahoo.com (Melissa J. Gordon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: MemoryWriter 620 Message-ID: <000601c23a54$5b64ed00$8f5bfea9@v5k6q3> Hill if you are getting a grinding noise you may not have a daisy wheel in the slot or if you do it is not being read when it rotates. You also may not have a ribbon installed properly.. Yes I do know this machine as I sold and repaired them for Xerox for 10 years.. let me know.. Andy in Eureka Ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020802/220d3b04/attachment.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Aug 2 14:48:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: Latest find : IBM display writer In-Reply-To: <3D49BBEB.CE89623F@atarimuseum.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020802154912.0f070018@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:53 PM 8/1/02 -0400, Curt wrote: >I thought IBM Displaywriters were their line of daisywheel letter quality >printers??? No, the original Display writers were dedicated word processors. FWIW IBM later sold software for the PC that emulated the Display writer. As you might guess it was called Display Write. Joe From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Aug 2 15:01:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20020802094643.B48669-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: > Digital watches are passe'. "Earth is such a primitive planet, that they still think that digital watches are a pretty neat idea." From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Aug 2 15:11:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: HP 1000 video card??? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020802161229.4077cf50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I sent this earlier but it never re-appeared here so I'm sending it again. I found some odd looking HP 1000 cards yesterday. Can anyone identify them? I THINK they're for the A-series HP 1000s. They have three gold connectors on them that look like an over-sized SMA connectors. The connectors don't have lugs, posts or threads on them but are about the size of a BNC connector. Next to the connectors are the letters R G B. There are several numbers on them but I think the part number is 12065-60001. They have a NEC 7220 Graphics controller IC and a 68008 CPU on them along with some other large ICs that are unmarked. I also found some other HP 1000 cards. I think I know what they are but if anyone feels like adding some details be my guest! Here are the board numbers and markings on the pull tabs (if they have them). 12040-60214 (8 ch Mux), 12060-60101 (12 bit ADC), 12061-60001 (32 ch Mux) (these two may be a set), 12009-69020 (HP-IB), another 12060-60101 (12 bit ADC). Joe From quapla at xs4all.nl Fri Aug 2 15:49:01 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: DEC Star Coupler Message-ID: <3D4AEF1C.890F58A6@xs4all.nl> Hi all, I have found a DEC board called 'CI START COUPLER'. There are two numbers on it, 5414216 and 5014215C. Were was/is it used for and is anybody interested in it (postage only). Ed -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.groenenberg.net | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Kilometerheffing : De overheid '97 TL1000S | weet waar je bent geweest! From jbmcb at hotmail.com Fri Aug 2 16:21:00 2002 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: DEC Star Coupler References: <3D4AEF1C.890F58A6@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: A Star Coupler is used to cluster VAXen together, to create a big, uberVAX. They could share peripherials and, more importanly, disk storage. Unless you have a bunch of VAXes, and I don't mean MicroVAX, it's mostly useless. ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Wanderer" To: Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 4:44 PM Subject: DEC Star Coupler > Hi all, > > I have found a DEC board called 'CI START COUPLER'. There are two > numbers > on it, 5414216 and 5014215C. > Were was/is it used for and is anybody interested in it (postage only). > > Ed > > -- > The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. > quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers > http://www.groenenberg.net | en neuspeuteraars. > Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Kilometerheffing : De overheid > '97 TL1000S | weet waar je bent geweest! > From archer at topnow.com Fri Aug 2 17:00:01 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? References: Message-ID: <3D4B00AC.5E3DB098@topnow.com> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > Digital watches are passe'. > > "Earth is such a primitive planet, that they still think that digital > watches are a pretty neat idea." Yeah. I use analog myself. Perhaps I'm being a Luddite, but aesthetically I find the motion of a second hand (and especially a sweep-second hand) to be a much more elegant and universal model to represent the flow of time than physically-arbitrary changes in the light and dark patterns of seven-segement displays. That said, I came real damn close to bidding on an old Commodore LED watch. :) -- Ross From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 2 17:27:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: Tips/leads for Nat Semi 32k system(s)? In-Reply-To: <200208020256.g722u2G14005@io.crash.com> from "classiccmp@crash.com" at Aug 1, 2 10:57:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 861 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020802/3b94201b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 2 17:30:21 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: Multibus ST-506/QIC-02 (was: Re: SGI IRIS 1400 ...) In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Aug 2, 2 07:25:12 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2126 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020802/8800e9c9/attachment.ksh From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Aug 2 17:33:20 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: Tips/leads for Nat Semi 32k system(s)? In-Reply-To: <200208012310.g71NAxG13572@buserr.crash.com>; from smj@crash.com on Fri, Aug 02, 2002 at 01:10:59 CEST References: <200208012310.g71NAxG13572@buserr.crash.com> Message-ID: <20020803002015.C33427@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.08.02 01:10 Steven M. Jones wrote: > Anybody have a suggestion for locating some kind of system based > on the Nat Semi 32k family? There are the early Siemens MX300 systems. They are running SINIX, a weird UNIX variant. This machines are easy to get in Germany. (Actually it is hard to avoid to have one for a German collector. I was very hard in the past. ;-) ) Later machines come with a 80486. The Symmetric 375 "half VAX" (compared to the 11/750, as intended by its designer Bill Jolitz) and the already mentioned PC532: http://bim.bsn.com/~jhs/txt/pc532.html http://bim.bsn.com/~jhs/txt/symmetric.html -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jim at jkearney.com Fri Aug 2 17:47:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: Latest find : IBM display writer References: <3.0.6.16.20020802154912.0f070018@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001b01c23a76$7362c540$1301090a@xpace.net> > No, the original Display writers were dedicated word processors. FWIW IBM later sold software for the PC that emulated the Display writer. As you might guess it was called Display Write. Not totally dedicated. IBM sold a port of the UCSD Pascal OS, and some apps such as LogiCalc and some accounting software. Somewhere I think I might have a brochure. This would have been around 1982(?). My recollection is that it was an 8086, and the PC drew more than a little from its design. Jim From at258 at osfn.org Fri Aug 2 19:07:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: Latest find : IBM display writer In-Reply-To: <001b01c23a76$7362c540$1301090a@xpace.net> Message-ID: I thought it was an 8085. I believe there was CP/M for the displaywriter, and I remember seeing a flyer about a DOS upgrade, though I dpon't know if it ever materialised. On Fri, 2 Aug 2002, Jim Kearney wrote: > > No, the original Display writers were dedicated word processors. FWIW > IBM later sold software for the PC that emulated the Display writer. As you > might guess it was called Display Write. > > Not totally dedicated. IBM sold a port of the UCSD Pascal OS, and some apps > such as LogiCalc and some accounting software. Somewhere I think I might > have a brochure. This would have been around 1982(?). My recollection is > that it was an 8086, and the PC drew more than a little from its design. > > Jim > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Fri Aug 2 19:39:01 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: DEC Star Coupler In-Reply-To: References: <3D4AEF1C.890F58A6@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020803103533.00ba7b68@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 05:19 PM 2/08/2002 -0400, Jason McBrien wrote: >A Star Coupler is used to cluster VAXen together, to create a big, uberVAX. >They could share peripherials and, more importanly, disk storage. Unless you >have a bunch of VAXes, and I don't mean MicroVAX, it's mostly useless. A Star Coupler is a passive interconnect for systems using CI (Cluster Inconnect). It is used by VAXen and Alpha based systems to form Clusters which can share various things. I understand (and hope to be corrected by posting here) that the CI technology was originally developed as a method of sharing storage for DECSYSTEM-20 systems. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Aug 2 19:52:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: Klez HELP ! (don't open if in any format) was Re: HEADERS? In-Reply-To: <3D474EA2.16925.1FC9E58@localhost> References: Message-ID: <3D4AE2F8.28986.C79E11@localhost> It seems that I did not escape Klez. I have had a continuous memory drain since stupidly opening the first msg. in HTML and memory resources drain eventually freeze my computer. I come up clean with both the Symantic and Kaspersky removal tools however. One of the spoofed messages with R.E.s return path was from Allison warning about klez and recommending the Kaspersky Klez removal tool. I'd never heard about Kaspersky before. Makes me seriously wonder about these AV companies. Create a problem and then sell a solution. I saved, without opening, one of the msgs. and submitted it to Kaspersky on-line identification and they IDed it as Klez H. Ran their removal tool again, which won't run from DOS, only from a 98 Dos prompt and again it came up clean. I'm wondering now whether it might have removed some essential 98 file. Any ideas on solving this problem ? A good lesson learned. Henceforth any list messages in non-ASCI format either get deleted or sent back to sender. No exceptions. If you can't solve your msg.sending problems because of your system at work or whatever ; DON'T SEND it !! Lawrence > I've just had a flock(5) of them and they all had the same return line as > yours. > I use Pegasus which does not automatically open HTML. I stupidly opened > the first one but checking with both the Symantec and Kaspersky Klez tools > say I'm clean. They all vary in size but average around 150k. 2 were > supposedly from list members but the other 3 were unknown to me. > I guess it is harvesting Richards mail. > > Lawrence > > > > At 07:29 PM 7/30/2002 -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > >Can somebody more familiar with such confirm whether that is indeed > > > >Richard Erlacher's machine that sent the following copy of Klez? (Headers > > > >only follow) > > > > On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, John Foust wrote: > > > One trick of Klez is that it harvests e-mail addresses > > > from your mailboxes and uses them to spoof the From: line, > > > in order to make it seem (on casual inspection) that > > > person has the virus. They don't. Someone who received > > > mail from Erlacher (perhaps a list subscriber) has Klez. > > > > NO. PLEASE look again. Dick's address is in the RETURN PATH line, NOT > > the FROM line! It appears that Dick's computer is the one with > > Klez, and it put a false FROM: of JPLCSCH@aol.com > > > > MOST varieties of Klez put a bogus FROM:, but leave the > > Return-Path: intact. > > > > > > > > Return-Path: > > Received: from mailhost.idcomm.com (mailhost.idcomm.com [207.40.196.14]) > > by lmi.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA05488 > > for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 19:17:42 -0700 (PDT) > > Received: from Dqza (dsl-res156.idcomm.com [216.98.199.156]) > > by mailhost.idcomm.com (8.10.2/8.10.0) with SMTP id g6V2HSJ01036 > > for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 20:17:29 -0600 > > Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 20:17:29 -0600 > > Message-Id: <200207310217.g6V2HSJ01036@mailhost.idcomm.com> > > From: JPLCSCH > > To: cisin@xenosoft.com > > Subject: Dialog under > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > > boundary=Q37LE02W0269aCiF037Kl967jS3g6 > > > > > > > lgwalker@mts.net > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From jim at jkearney.com Fri Aug 2 19:56:01 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: Latest find : IBM display writer References: Message-ID: <005b01c23a88$6db4e490$1301090a@xpace.net> > I thought it was an 8085. I believe there was CP/M for the > displaywriter, and I remember seeing a flyer about a DOS upgrade, though > I dpon't know if it ever materialised. It's certainly possible that there were earlier models using an 8085; I'm positive that the model I worked with was an 8086 because I ported some of that software I mentioned. I guess the original poster might have either. Jim From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Aug 2 20:07:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: Latest find : IBM display writer In-Reply-To: References: <001b01c23a76$7362c540$1301090a@xpace.net> Message-ID: <3D4AE683.14016.D5745F@localhost> I have an old copy of DATAMATION where they mention that IBM was coming out with CP/M for the DisplayWriter. On another note, I have a Displaywriter KB up for grabs. You pay the shipping. Lawrence > I thought it was an 8085. I believe there was CP/M for the > displaywriter, and I remember seeing a flyer about a DOS upgrade, though > I dpon't know if it ever materialised. > > On Fri, 2 Aug 2002, Jim Kearney wrote: > > > > No, the original Display writers were dedicated word processors. FWIW > > IBM later sold software for the PC that emulated the Display writer. As you > > might guess it was called Display Write. > > > > Not totally dedicated. IBM sold a port of the UCSD Pascal OS, and some apps > > such as LogiCalc and some accounting software. Somewhere I think I might have > > a brochure. This would have been around 1982(?). My recollection is that it > > was an 8086, and the PC drew more than a little from its design. > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > M. K. Peirce > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From foo at siconic.com Fri Aug 2 20:11:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Klez HELP ! (don't open if in any format) was Re: HEADERS? In-Reply-To: <3D4AE2F8.28986.C79E11@localhost> Message-ID: Here's a trick for removing a virus from your Microsoft Windows system: 1. Reboot the computer into DOS mode 2. Issue the command: format /u c: 3. Install your favorite open source operating system On Fri, 2 Aug 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > It seems that I did not escape Klez. I have had a continuous memory drain > since stupidly opening the first msg. in HTML and memory resources drain > eventually freeze my computer. I come up clean with both the Symantic and > Kaspersky removal tools however. One of the spoofed messages with R.E.s > return path was from Allison warning about klez and recommending the > Kaspersky Klez removal tool. I'd never heard about Kaspersky before. Makes > me seriously wonder about these AV companies. Create a problem and then > sell a solution. > > I saved, without opening, one of the msgs. and submitted it to Kaspersky > on-line identification and they IDed it as Klez H. Ran their removal tool again, > which won't run from DOS, only from a 98 Dos prompt and again it came up > clean. I'm wondering now whether it might have removed some essential 98 > file. Any ideas on solving this problem ? > > A good lesson learned. Henceforth any list messages in non-ASCI format > either get deleted or sent back to sender. No exceptions. If you can't solve > your msg.sending problems because of your system at work or whatever ; > DON'T SEND it !! > > Lawrence > > > I've just had a flock(5) of them and they all had the same return line as > > yours. > > I use Pegasus which does not automatically open HTML. I stupidly opened > > the first one but checking with both the Symantec and Kaspersky Klez tools > > say I'm clean. They all vary in size but average around 150k. 2 were > > supposedly from list members but the other 3 were unknown to me. > > I guess it is harvesting Richards mail. > > > > Lawrence > > > > > > At 07:29 PM 7/30/2002 -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > > >Can somebody more familiar with such confirm whether that is indeed > > > > >Richard Erlacher's machine that sent the following copy of Klez? (Headers > > > > >only follow) > > > > > > On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, John Foust wrote: > > > > One trick of Klez is that it harvests e-mail addresses > > > > from your mailboxes and uses them to spoof the From: line, > > > > in order to make it seem (on casual inspection) that > > > > person has the virus. They don't. Someone who received > > > > mail from Erlacher (perhaps a list subscriber) has Klez. > > > > > > NO. PLEASE look again. Dick's address is in the RETURN PATH line, NOT > > > the FROM line! It appears that Dick's computer is the one with > > > Klez, and it put a false FROM: of JPLCSCH@aol.com > > > > > > MOST varieties of Klez put a bogus FROM:, but leave the > > > Return-Path: intact. > > > > > > > > > > > > Return-Path: > > > Received: from mailhost.idcomm.com (mailhost.idcomm.com [207.40.196.14]) > > > by lmi.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA05488 > > > for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 19:17:42 -0700 (PDT) > > > Received: from Dqza (dsl-res156.idcomm.com [216.98.199.156]) > > > by mailhost.idcomm.com (8.10.2/8.10.0) with SMTP id g6V2HSJ01036 > > > for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 20:17:29 -0600 > > > Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 20:17:29 -0600 > > > Message-Id: <200207310217.g6V2HSJ01036@mailhost.idcomm.com> > > > From: JPLCSCH > > > To: cisin@xenosoft.com > > > Subject: Dialog under > > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > > > boundary=Q37LE02W0269aCiF037Kl967jS3g6 > > > > > > > > > > > > lgwalker@mts.net > > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com > > > lgwalker@mts.net > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Fri Aug 2 20:15:01 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: DEC Star Coupler References: <3D4AEF1C.890F58A6@xs4all.nl> <4.3.2.7.2.20020803103533.00ba7b68@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <01b801c23a8a$c3510580$0300a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Huw Davies" To: Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 10:08 AM Subject: Re: DEC Star Coupler > A Star Coupler is a passive interconnect for systems using CI (Cluster > Inconnect). It is used by VAXen and Alpha based systems to form Clusters which can share > various things. > I understand (and hope to be corrected by posting here) that the CI > technology was originally developed as a method of sharing storage > for DECSYSTEM-20 systems. Didn't realise it was that early, but it's certainly been around a while, and the hardware went through considerable evolution. The circa 1984 Vax 8530 here has a second 5' cabinet, which contains a box 19" wide, 12" high and about 12" deep full of boards that is the CIBCI? CIBCA?. Equivalent thing in my Vax 6430 is two BI cards. I still have a couple of HSC50's and a Star Coupler at home, and we use a HSC70 and another one at work on the Vax 6440. Asides: Still looking for the Vax Console (Pro380) to 8530 cables so I can try and get the 8530 running again. I have the console and reinstalled all the stuff on it, just need the cables, then I will have to try and mod the 8530 psu to work on 240v single phase if possible. If anyone out there has info on converting a Vax 7000 to single phase ops (US single phase initially) I'd be interested to hear from them as a US based acquaintance has one he wishes to play with. Cheers Geoff in Oz From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Fri Aug 2 20:40:01 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: Teletypes (more update) In-Reply-To: <00e101c23a55$cc2abfa0$0d010240@oemcomputer> References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020802213906.00750f48@pop1.epm.net.co> I did Madison WI--Houston TX in a 26 footer a long time ago. Some sixteen hours, I seem to recall. Very tiresome. I don't want to ever do that again. carlos. At 01:52 PM 8/2/02 -0500, you wrote: >I think it may be more than 1200 miles as that's close to the distance from >Houston and the Twincities (MN) and I drive that in 19 to 22 hours without a >load. On return trips with a full 26 footer it's about 32 hours, with the >longest taking 37 hours with rest stops. If I can work out a meet with >someone to shorten the drive I may go but if not I will have to pass. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "William Donzelli" >To: >Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 5:51 PM >Subject: Re: Teletypes (more update) >> I have done the trip - I think it is something like 1200 miles each way. >> I am a "marathon" driver, and can do 900 miles a day if fresh, but 1200 >> is just too much. >> >> William Donzelli >> aw288@osfn.org -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Aug 2 20:46:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: Klez HELP ! (don't open if in any format) was Re: HEADERS? In-Reply-To: <3D4AE2F8.28986.C79E11@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Aug 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > I saved, without opening, one of the msgs. and submitted it to Kaspersky > on-line identification and they IDed it as Klez H. Ran their removal tool again, > which won't run from DOS, only from a 98 Dos prompt and again it came up > clean. I'm wondering now whether it might have removed some essential 98 > file. Any ideas on solving this problem ? If you have a 98 boot cd, boot from that to a DOS prompt. load the klez-kleener off the hard drive. If the removal tool won't run in a clean-boot environment, it's NOT a removal tool. I open virus emails to see what's in 'em. I love my Pine... Doc From jim at jkearney.com Fri Aug 2 21:47:01 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: Latest find : IBM display writer References: <005b01c23a88$6db4e490$1301090a@xpace.net> Message-ID: <000f01c23a97$fa23ad30$1301090a@xpace.net> I just dug up the IBM flyer for the Displaywriter version of Logicalc (which I wrote way back when). The machine requirements are: 1 Model 6850 Electronics Model with at least 128K bytes of main storage ... The UCSD p-System Runtime System (5608-MS1) or the UCSD p-System Development System (5608-MS2). Since the p-System did run on 8-bit processors, this doesn't really answer the question, but the 128K requirement would mean either a 16-bit processor or bank switching. There are some references on the net that say 8086, e.g. http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/jbayko/cpu3.html#8086, and this guy claims to have ported MSDOS to it for Phoenix: http://www.wps.com/about-WPS/professional/resume.html. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Kearney" To: Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 8:55 PM Subject: Re: Latest find : IBM display writer > > I thought it was an 8085. I believe there was CP/M for the > > displaywriter, and I remember seeing a flyer about a DOS upgrade, though > > I dpon't know if it ever materialised. > > It's certainly possible that there were earlier models using an 8085; I'm > positive that the model I worked with was an 8086 because I ported some of > that software I mentioned. I guess the original poster might have either. > > Jim > From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Aug 2 22:17:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: NS32k based system Message-ID: I've got a NatSemi ICM-3216 that I'd like to get an OS for. It apparently (according to Google) runs either BSD 4.2 or SVR2. Does anyone know where I can download something I can use to install either of these onto a SCSI drive for the thing? It's got a couple of serial ports, some memory, and a SCSI port (probably other things that I am not remembering also). Thanks for the help. -- Pat From rdd at rddavis.org Fri Aug 2 23:14:01 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20020801111425.O45883-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> References: <20020801111425.O45883-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <20020803043121.GB4314@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Bill Richman, from writings of Thu, Aug 01, 2002 at 11:19:12AM -0500: > This is entirely OT, but since we're probably all gadget freaks here, I Not me. I have no desire for items such as PDAs, digital watches, devices that tell me where I'm located geographically, etc. If a watch needs batteries, doesn't require winding, and doesn't go tick-tock, then I have little interest in it. Real watches go tick-tock and require winding. :-) > thought it would be a good place to ask. My "OnHand" PC watch recently > bit the dust, so I'm in the market for a cool new toy to wear on my wrist. Try a real wrist watch that you have to wind, which goes tick-tock, and you'll find more happiness in life. > I've had various "DataBank" watches, a Timex DataLink, and the OnHand in Why? > the past. Not long ago I got a Kyocera PDA/Phone that handles most of the > functions the watch used to provide, so now I'm just looking for something > fun. I like BIG, HEAVY, INDUSTRIAL watches, so none of those effeminate > little dressy things! I'm currently thinking about either a Casio camera > watch, or a Timex "Internet Messenger" watch. Samsung has released a Talk about information overload... yikes. You need a wind up watch, and you need it fast. > cell-phone watch in Japan, but not available in the US yet, priced at Weird. > $1,000, and duplicates the function of my existing phone. Any > suggestions? Yes, a wind up watch that goes tick-tock; it will simplify your life. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Fri Aug 2 23:17:55 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: DEC Star Coupler In-Reply-To: <01b801c23a8a$c3510580$0300a8c0@geoff> References: <3D4AEF1C.890F58A6@xs4all.nl> <4.3.2.7.2.20020803103533.00ba7b68@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020803140618.00ba7b68@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 10:41 AM 3/08/2002 +0930, Geoff Roberts wrote: >From: "Huw Davies" > > I understand (and hope to be corrected by posting here) that the CI > > technology was originally developed as a method of sharing storage > > for DECSYSTEM-20 systems. > >Didn't realise it was that early, but it's certainly been around a while, >and the hardware went through >considerable evolution. OK, now that I've got my caffeine levels approaching operational normal.... A quick google search gives: http://www.linique.com/dlm/tenex/acmcfs89.txt which confirms that CI was used to provide a common file system for DECSYSTEM-20s. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Aug 3 01:15:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20020803043121.GB4314@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20020801111425.O45883-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <3D4B2E89.4455.1EED889@localhost> This might be one of the few times we are in agreement. A Toast. And a reminder that few things are self-evident. Including Dubya. Lawrence > Quothe Bill Richman, from writings of Thu, Aug 01, 2002 at 11:19:12AM -0500: > > This is entirely OT, but since we're probably all gadget freaks here, I > > Not me. I have no desire for items such as PDAs, digital watches, > devices that tell me where I'm located geographically, etc. If a > watch needs batteries, doesn't require winding, and doesn't go > tick-tock, then I have little interest in it. Real watches go > tick-tock and require winding. :-) > > > thought it would be a good place to ask. My "OnHand" PC watch recently > > bit the dust, so I'm in the market for a cool new toy to wear on my wrist. > > Try a real wrist watch that you have to wind, which goes tick-tock, and > you'll find more happiness in life. > > > I've had various "DataBank" watches, a Timex DataLink, and the OnHand in > > Why? > > > the past. Not long ago I got a Kyocera PDA/Phone that handles most of the > > functions the watch used to provide, so now I'm just looking for something > > fun. I like BIG, HEAVY, INDUSTRIAL watches, so none of those effeminate > > little dressy things! I'm currently thinking about either a Casio camera > > watch, or a Timex "Internet Messenger" watch. Samsung has released a > > Talk about information overload... yikes. You need a wind up watch, and you > need it fast. > > > cell-phone watch in Japan, but not available in the US yet, priced at > > Weird. > > > $1,000, and duplicates the function of my existing phone. Any > > suggestions? > > Yes, a wind up watch that goes tick-tock; it will simplify your life. > > > -- > Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Aug 3 01:18:27 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Klez HELP ! (don't open if in any format) was Re: HEADERS? In-Reply-To: References: <3D4AE2F8.28986.C79E11@localhost> Message-ID: <3D4B2E89.6926.1EED847@localhost> Thanks Sellam. You always were a smartass. And if I delete the the years of collecting how-to's, in order to get my old boxes working, I can simply refer folks to you claiming that now I have a superior system running, I'm sure they will understand. I guess NOW is the time to burn a CD before a HD failure or virus wipes it all. Lawrence > > Here's a trick for removing a virus from your Microsoft Windows system: > > 1. Reboot the computer into DOS mode > 2. Issue the command: format /u c: > 3. Install your favorite open source operating system > > On Fri, 2 Aug 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > It seems that I did not escape Klez. I have had a continuous memory drain > > since stupidly opening the first msg. in HTML and memory resources drain > > eventually freeze my computer. I come up clean with both the Symantic and > > Kaspersky removal tools however. One of the spoofed messages with R.E.s return > > path was from Allison warning about klez and recommending the Kaspersky Klez > > removal tool. I'd never heard about Kaspersky before. Makes me seriously > > wonder about these AV companies. Create a problem and then sell a solution. > > > > I saved, without opening, one of the msgs. and submitted it to Kaspersky > > on-line identification and they IDed it as Klez H. Ran their removal tool > > again, which won't run from DOS, only from a 98 Dos prompt and again it came > > up clean. I'm wondering now whether it might have removed some essential 98 > > file. Any ideas on solving this problem ? > > > > A good lesson learned. Henceforth any list messages in non-ASCI format > > either get deleted or sent back to sender. No exceptions. If you can't solve > > your msg.sending problems because of your system at work or whatever ; > > DON'T SEND it !! > > > > Lawrence > > > > > I've just had a flock(5) of them and they all had the same return line as > > > yours. > > > I use Pegasus which does not automatically open HTML. I stupidly opened the > > > first one but checking with both the Symantec and Kaspersky Klez tools say > > > I'm clean. They all vary in size but average around 150k. 2 were supposedly > > > from list members but the other 3 were unknown to me. > > > I guess it is harvesting Richards mail. > > > > > > Lawrence > > > > > > > > At 07:29 PM 7/30/2002 -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > > > >Can somebody more familiar with such confirm whether that is indeed > > > > > >Richard Erlacher's machine that sent the following copy of Klez? > > > > > >(Headers only follow) > > > > > > > > On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, John Foust wrote: > > > > > One trick of Klez is that it harvests e-mail addresses > > > > > from your mailboxes and uses them to spoof the From: line, > > > > > in order to make it seem (on casual inspection) that > > > > > person has the virus. They don't. Someone who received > > > > > mail from Erlacher (perhaps a list subscriber) has Klez. > > > > > > > > NO. PLEASE look again. Dick's address is in the RETURN PATH line, NOT > > > > the FROM line! It appears that Dick's computer is the one with Klez, and > > > > it put a false FROM: of JPLCSCH@aol.com > > > > > > > > MOST varieties of Klez put a bogus FROM:, but leave the > > > > Return-Path: intact. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Return-Path: > > > > Received: from mailhost.idcomm.com (mailhost.idcomm.com [207.40.196.14]) > > > > by lmi.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA05488 > > > > for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 19:17:42 -0700 (PDT) > > > > Received: from Dqza (dsl-res156.idcomm.com [216.98.199.156]) > > > > by mailhost.idcomm.com (8.10.2/8.10.0) with SMTP id g6V2HSJ01036 > > > > for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 20:17:29 -0600 > > > > Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 20:17:29 -0600 > > > > Message-Id: <200207310217.g6V2HSJ01036@mailhost.idcomm.com> > > > > From: JPLCSCH > > > > To: cisin@xenosoft.com > > > > Subject: Dialog under > > > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > > > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > > > > boundary=Q37LE02W0269aCiF037Kl967jS3g6 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lgwalker@mts.net > > > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com > > > > > > lgwalker@mts.net > > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com > > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Aug 3 01:21:22 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:29 2005 Subject: Klez HELP ! (don't open if in any format) was Re: HEADERS? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020802220946.00a8bb10@mail.itm-inst.com> References: <3D4AE2F8.28986.C79E11@localhost> Message-ID: <3D4B2E89.26600.1EED80B@localhost> I've done the Vulcan neck pinch (love the terminology :^) ) many times to see what was running that could be using all this memory. Ending tasks freed up miniscule amounts of memory according to "tweak-all" and using the free memory module in tweak-all brought me back to what should be expected, considering the apps I was using. > At 07:52 PM 8/2/02 -0500, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > It seems that I did not escape Klez. > > When your system is running, use the vulcan neck pinch (Control-Alt-Del). > Is there anything running with program name wink* (wink plus some > random digits.)? > Are there any files found when you do "dir/a c:\windows\system\wink*.exe" ? If > not, you probably don't have Klez. Your posting here was made using Pegasus, > which does not open the Klez virus when you open an e-mail message. You would > have had to execute the attachment. > One of the first things I did was check for files with "wink" in their title as suggested in the various AV suggestions. > When you run the Klez cleaner, did you run it from Safe Mode? That's > the safest way to remove it; you can also follow the manual removal > process at > . > I used the Mcaffee remover as per suggestions in the read me file that urged you to do it this way, but not with the clrav.com file from Kaspersky. > Note that Klez often comes shipped with the Elkern virus - that > disables most antivirus software. > > >I have had a continuous memory drain > >since stupidly opening the first msg. in HTML and memory resources drain > >eventually freeze my computer. I come up clean with both the Symantic and > >Kaspersky removal tools however. One of the spoofed messages with R.E.s > >return path was from Allison warning about klez and recommending the > >Kaspersky Klez removal tool. I'd never heard about Kaspersky before. > >Makes > >me seriously wonder about these AV companies. Create a problem and then > >sell a solution. > > What evidence do you have that an antivirus company is responsible for > creating the Klez problem? Or any other virus? > -Rick > It may be simply paranoia, but the fact that the spoofed file from AJP {Allison) had a recommendation to use the Kaspersky Klez removal tool makes me wonder why the beast would suggest it's own demise. Somewhere I can also remember an advisory that AV programs encourage sloppy procedures and should be done without. Not to mention the size of some of the latest programs. 81 Megs for the latest flavor ? Give me a break. This is either BS marketing or incredibly sloppy. wasteful programming. " Ah, the jerks will either grab the cheap ram available or get a multi-gig new hard drive" "I want to have a good weekend so what do I care how the dweebs handle it". Why I prefer older equipment. Or UYA with MS "computer advances" Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Aug 3 01:26:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: [GreenKeys] Fwd: IBM card punch / reader (fwd) Message-ID: Pls reply directly to Henry if you can be of assistance to him. The 'Greenkeys' list is for folks who like to collect and love Teletype gear of all kinds, BTW... a few classiccmpers are also on it. John ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 00:47:59 -0400 From: Henry Minsky To: greenkeys@mailman.qth.net Subject: [GreenKeys] Fwd: IBM card punch / reader > > >Hi Folks, > >This may be a little off topic but I am interested in trying to obtain a >punched card reader >and writer. I don't know much about this equipment, but If anyone has any >stuff lying around in the Boston area, I'd be interested. > >Thanks, > Hnery _______________________________________________ GreenKeys mailing list GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sat Aug 3 01:29:01 2002 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20020803043121.GB4314@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20020801111425.O45883-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> <20020801111425.O45883-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020803072323.025c1378@slave> At 05:31 03/08/2002, R. D. Davis wrote: >Real watches go >tick-tock and require winding. :-) Nooo! *Real* watches go tick-tock and wind themselves :) I finally gave up on quartz watches 2 years ago, and have had an automatic ever since. Superb it is, none of that tedious morning winding, it makes all the right noises, and it cost a mere twenty quid from Argos. All I have to remember is that April, June & November *don't* have 31 days... -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Sat Aug 3 01:39:00 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020803072323.025c1378@slave> References: <20020803043121.GB4314@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <20020801111425.O45883-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> <20020801111425.O45883-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020803163633.00ba7b68@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 07:26 AM 3/08/2002 +0100, Adrian Vickers wrote: >I finally gave up on quartz watches 2 years ago, and have had an automatic >ever since. Superb it is, none of that tedious morning winding, it makes >all the right noises, and it cost a mere twenty quid from Argos. > >All I have to remember is that April, June & November *don't* have 31 days... You might also want to give some thought to February..... I think I have all the watches I've ever purchased or been given. My current preference is for analog hands but battery driven - I was never good at remembering to wind watches but seeing it's been 20 years or so since I used one that needed winding, maybe I'd be more disciplined now... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Aug 3 02:13:01 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: Tips/leads for Nat Semi 32k system(s)? In-Reply-To: <200208012310.g71NAxG13572@buserr.crash.com>; from smj@crash.com on Fri, Aug 02, 2002 at 01:10:59 CEST References: <200208012310.g71NAxG13572@buserr.crash.com> Message-ID: <20020803090609.C34357@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.08.02 01:10 Steven M. Jones wrote: > Anybody have a suggestion for locating some kind of system based > on the Nat Semi 32k family? I forgot: Sequent build some big SMP machines around 32k CPUs bevore they started to use Intel 80386. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From Inkster at knology.com Sat Aug 3 03:20:35 2002 From: Inkster at knology.com (Allen Meredith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: Rescue / Sale in AZ: PET, Tandy, Apple, PC Message-ID: <000601c23a9a$0ad067c0$88b8d618@Inkster> I am very interested in your 3M Thermal "Secretary" Copiers. If you still have them how much of a donation is required for both units? Thanks for your time, Allen Meredith -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020803/e6622e08/attachment.html From curt at atarimuseum.com Sat Aug 3 03:23:45 2002 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: Before I Ebay.... References: <3D4AEF1C.890F58A6@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <006401c23aac$e9d791c0$01000001@cvendel> Sorry to spam a for sale, but I wanted to offer this to the group before Ebaying.... Times are getting a little tight, so I have to part with some non-Atari items, so I am making my Corvus Concept 68000 based computer available for sale. The system is in excellent cosmetic shape, comes with main unit, Coruvs keyboard and special Landscape/Potrait Monitor. System is perfect operational shape and does attempt to boot up, but requires an Omninet Hard Drive with the Corvus OS installed onto it. The full Corvus manual is on Al Kossow's site for reference. If someone is really into exotic hardware, then this is a must have system, very few Concepts were made and very few are in the hands of collectors... Okay, enough with the cheesy sales-pitch, Email me if interested. Curt From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Aug 3 04:15:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: Klez HELP ! (don't open if in any format) was Re: HEADERS? In-Reply-To: <3D4B2E89.26600.1EED80B@localhost> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20020802220946.00a8bb10@mail.itm-inst.com> Message-ID: <3D4B588A.8303.292F157@localhost> Interestingly, my reply to this message was rejected by the original sender and consigned to the monkeys.com blackhole list. A Kaspersky schill ? Even tho you're paranoid doesn't mean that the bastards aren't out to get you. lawrence > I've done the Vulcan neck pinch (love the terminology :^) ) many times to see > what was running that could be using all this memory. Ending tasks freed up > miniscule amounts of memory according to "tweak-all" and using the free memory > module in tweak-all brought me back to what should be expected, considering the > apps I was using. > > > At 07:52 PM 8/2/02 -0500, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > It seems that I did not escape Klez. > > > > When your system is running, use the vulcan neck pinch (Control-Alt-Del). Is > > there anything running with program name wink* (wink plus some random > > digits.)? Are there any files found when you do "dir/a > > c:\windows\system\wink*.exe" ? If not, you probably don't have Klez. Your > > posting here was made using Pegasus, which does not open the Klez virus when > > you open an e-mail message. You would have had to execute the attachment. > > > One of the first things I did was check for files with "wink" in their title as > suggested in the various AV suggestions. > > > When you run the Klez cleaner, did you run it from Safe Mode? That's > > the safest way to remove it; you can also follow the manual removal > > process at > > . > > > I used the Mcaffee remover as per suggestions in the read me file that urged > you to do it this way, but not with the clrav.com file from Kaspersky. > Note > that Klez often comes shipped with the Elkern virus - that > disables most > antivirus software. > > >I have had a continuous memory drain > >since stupidly > opening the first msg. in HTML and memory resources drain > >eventually freeze > my computer. I come up clean with both the Symantic and > >Kaspersky removal > tools however. One of the spoofed messages with R.E.s > >return path was from > Allison warning about klez and recommending the > >Kaspersky Klez removal tool. > I'd never heard about Kaspersky before. > >Makes > >me seriously wonder about > these AV companies. Create a problem and then > >sell a solution. > > What > evidence do you have that an antivirus company is responsible for > creating the > Klez problem? Or any other virus? > -Rick > > It may be simply paranoia, but the fact that the spoofed file from AJP > {Allison) had a recommendation to use the Kaspersky Klez removal tool > makes me wonder why the beast would suggest it's own demise. > > Somewhere I can also remember an advisory that AV programs encourage > sloppy procedures and should be done without. Not to mention the size of > some of the latest programs. 81 Megs for the latest flavor ? Give me a break. > > This is either BS marketing or incredibly sloppy. wasteful programming. > " Ah, the jerks will either grab the cheap ram available or get a multi-gig new > hard drive" "I want to have a good weekend so what do I care how the dweebs > handle it". > > Why I prefer older equipment. Or UYA with MS "computer advances" > > Lawrence > > > > lgwalker@mts.net > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sat Aug 3 05:11:01 2002 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020803163633.00ba7b68@kerberos.davies.net.au> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020803072323.025c1378@slave> <20020803043121.GB4314@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <20020801111425.O45883-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> <20020801111425.O45883-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020803110737.02630cc0@slave> At 07:38 03/08/2002, Huw Davies wrote: >At 07:26 AM 3/08/2002 +0100, Adrian Vickers wrote: >>I finally gave up on quartz watches 2 years ago, and have had an >>automatic ever since. Superb it is, none of that tedious morning winding, >>it makes all the right noises, and it cost a mere twenty quid from Argos. >> >>All I have to remember is that April, June & November *don't* have 31 days... > >You might also want to give some thought to February..... I rarely forget February, since it's so much shorter... >I think I have all the watches I've ever purchased or been given. My >current preference is for analog hands but battery driven - I was never >good at remembering to wind watches but seeing it's been 20 years or so >since I used one that needed winding, maybe I'd be more disciplined now... I got fed up of batteries running out and/or the watch dying, hence the auto. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From aw288 at osfn.org Sat Aug 3 08:01:01 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: Teletypes (33 are gone) Message-ID: All 33s? Probably, but one never knows in this warehouse. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From allain at panix.com Sat Aug 3 08:17:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: Teletypes (33 are gone) References: Message-ID: <034a01c23aef$caae23c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> My bet is that you have a few manual sets around. The packet we picked up (one of many) was a complete set for a 33, looking to be the field maintenance prints. John A. From rmurphy at itm-inst.com Sat Aug 3 09:46:01 2002 From: rmurphy at itm-inst.com (Rick Murphy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: Klez HELP ! (don't open if in any format) was Re: HEADERS? In-Reply-To: <3D4B588A.8303.292F157@localhost> References: <3D4B2E89.26600.1EED80B@localhost> <5.1.1.6.0.20020802220946.00a8bb10@mail.itm-inst.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020803103346.00a8dae0@mail.itm-inst.com> At 04:14 AM 8/3/02 -0500, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Interestingly, my reply to this message was rejected by the original > sender >and consigned to the monkeys.com blackhole list. A Kaspersky schill ? Geez, I try to help and suddenly I'm a shill? Especially when *EVERYTHING* I sent to you was correct and accurate. Most of your responses to being infected with this virus - if you even HAVE one - has been to try to find others to blame. I do not work for anyone associated in any way with any antivirus product. As to why your reply to me was bounced, your mail server - smtp2.mts.net - is listed in the monkeys open FormMail list. This means that your ISP is or was running a formmail.pl script on that server that has been used to send spam. >Even tho you're paranoid doesn't mean that the bastards aren't out to get >you. I resent being characterized as a "bastard" and a "shill" simply because I attempted to help you. Lawrence, welcome to my "never try to help this guy again" list. -Rick From P.Gebhardt at gmx.de Sat Aug 3 09:56:04 2002 From: P.Gebhardt at gmx.de (P.Gebhardt@gmx.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: Anyone looking for a CDC 9766? References: <20020801210057.58853.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <427.1028386517@www44.gmx.net> Hello Ethan, I guess you live in the states, not in Germany. Otherwise I would have taken the drive...:( Pierre > > When I was inspecting a Pyramid tower for Dan Cohoe today, the guy > at dotcomliquidation was rolling out a CDC 6766 drive for a fellow > >from Virginia who rented a minivan and drove to Columbus to pick > it up (important safety tip: the back deck of a minivan does not > lift up high enough to allow adequate forklift clearance to rear-load > a 600 lb disk drive. He will have some explaining to do when he > returns the van ;-) > > I mention it because a) it sold for $25 and b) he has one more. If I > had needed it (got plenty of Fuji Eagles and no 9766 platters) I might > have bought it. The seller offered the second drive to me on the spot > for the same price. > > I was a little disappointed in what they had there - *lots* of copiers > (90% end up in the crusher he said), wads of phone and PBX equipment > (including a 20 cabinet Lucent switch that he was going to offer at > $60K to start). Virtually no DEC equipment beyond a couple of semi- > modern storage arrays in the $100-$500 range. I'll probably pop by > his eBay list from time to time - shipping is no hassle for me - they > are 6 miles from work. > > So... if you are *really* interested in a 9766, write me and I'll do > what I can to hook you up. I do *not* own a vehicle that will be > suitable to take it to my house. I don't mind storing it for someone > for a reasonable interval (weeks, not years), but I personally have > no way to get it there. > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > http://health.yahoo.com > -- GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet. http://www.gmx.net From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Aug 3 10:17:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020803110737.02630cc0@slave> Message-ID: > >>All I have to remember is that April, June & November *don't* have 31 days... > >You might also want to give some thought to February..... > I rarely forget February, since it's so much shorter... But you DID forget that September does not have 31 days. From at258 at osfn.org Sat Aug 3 10:32:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20020803043121.GB4314@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: Have you ever tried to find a watch the only tells time? A bit of a search, usually ending in the toy department. I don't want a watch the plays music badly. I certainly don't want a watch the subjects me constantly to telphonic annoyance and harrassment. I don't want a alarm, that somehow is resistant to to disconnection. I don't want a stop watch. I don't want a calendar, I have one of those on the wall, nor do I especially care for the time in Latvia or Botswana. I'm not entirely convinced I need a timepiece with more than one hand, anyway. I'm inclined to get my grandfather's Hamilton overhauled. On Sat, 3 Aug 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe Bill Richman, from writings of Thu, Aug 01, 2002 at 11:19:12AM -0500: > > This is entirely OT, but since we're probably all gadget freaks here, I > > Not me. I have no desire for items such as PDAs, digital watches, > devices that tell me where I'm located geographically, etc. If a > watch needs batteries, doesn't require winding, and doesn't go > tick-tock, then I have little interest in it. Real watches go > tick-tock and require winding. :-) > > > thought it would be a good place to ask. My "OnHand" PC watch recently > > bit the dust, so I'm in the market for a cool new toy to wear on my wrist. > > Try a real wrist watch that you have to wind, which goes tick-tock, and > you'll find more happiness in life. > > > I've had various "DataBank" watches, a Timex DataLink, and the OnHand in > > Why? > > > the past. Not long ago I got a Kyocera PDA/Phone that handles most of the > > functions the watch used to provide, so now I'm just looking for something > > fun. I like BIG, HEAVY, INDUSTRIAL watches, so none of those effeminate > > little dressy things! I'm currently thinking about either a Casio camera > > watch, or a Timex "Internet Messenger" watch. Samsung has released a > > Talk about information overload... yikes. You need a wind up watch, and you > need it fast. > > > cell-phone watch in Japan, but not available in the US yet, priced at > > Weird. > > > $1,000, and duplicates the function of my existing phone. Any > > suggestions? > > Yes, a wind up watch that goes tick-tock; it will simplify your life. > > > -- > Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From Gavin.Haines1 at btopenworld.com Sat Aug 3 11:11:02 2002 From: Gavin.Haines1 at btopenworld.com (Gavin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: Anyone using their old Mac? Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 3, 2002 9:20 am, Ethan Dicks wrote: >> Projects I have not been able to do. >> 1. Connect any Macintosh running System 6 to the internet > >ISTR doing that with MacTCP 1.x (an addon install, not included >in System 6) and a SCSI<->Ethernet box. I'm fairly certain that >the ethernet box came with System 6 drivers, but if someone here >knows that it flat-out can't be done, then I'm probably mistaken. >I have never tried it with dial-up, if that's what you mean. You can down the necessary control panels off the Internet, but I have never been able to get through to my ISP. I haven't got an Ethernet box. Problem with Ethernet for the LCII is that it takes the socket you need for the Apple IIe card. -chris added: >There are also System 6 drivers for the Farallon Etherwave >localtalk->ethernet adaptor, however, the Etherwave doesn't support >TCP/IP (limit of the Appletalk, not of the etherwave), so you have to use >MacIP (TCP/IP wrapped in AppleTalk), and a MacIP to TCP/IP bridge (like >IPNetRouter running on another Mac). And again, I see no reason it can't >be done. It would be more useful to be to be able to connect a S6 Mac to the Internet from any phone socket which is why I was trying to do it dial up. It is has to go via another machine, then there isn't any advantage. Obviously you can ethernet another mac to your iMac. >> 1. Connected the Apple II to the BBC Micro using the games socket on the >> Apple and transfered data successfully. (hard) > >Did you write a bit-banger serial port for the Apple? I am not sure what this expression means. I connected the Apple games socket to the BBC Micro User port and used an adapted version of the RS232 serial program which is in the "Red Book" From tony.eros at machm.org Sat Aug 3 11:14:04 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: Teletypes (more update) In-Reply-To: <00e101c23a55$cc2abfa0$0d010240@oemcomputer> References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020803121021.03c44e90@mail.njd.concentric.com> My offer's still open, if you're interested... -- Tony At 01:52 PM 8/2/2002 -0500, you wrote: >I think it may be more than 1200 miles as that's close to the distance from >Houston and the Twincities (MN) and I drive that in 19 to 22 hours without a >load. On return trips with a full 26 footer it's about 32 hours, with the >longest taking 37 hours with rest stops. If I can work out a meet with >someone to shorten the drive I may go but if not I will have to pass. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "William Donzelli" >To: >Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 5:51 PM >Subject: Re: Teletypes (more update) > > > > > That's one day there and one day back plus one to load up and rest. A >three > > > day trip. > > > > I have done the trip - I think it is something like 1200 miles each way. > > I am a "marathon" driver, and can do 900 miles a day if fresh, but 1200 > > is just too much. > > > > William Donzelli > > aw288@osfn.org > > From thedm at sunflower.com Sat Aug 3 11:59:01 2002 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: Anyone using their old Mac? References: Message-ID: <001101c23b0f$318d0970$6501a8c0@thedm> It works but it can be persnickity. You have to completely disable and remove appletalk to get IP working, then re-add appletalk after you get IP happy. The mac just won't seem to unbind appletalk if it's there so IP never gets to work. I had this problem on an Se30 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gavin" To: Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 11:10 AM Subject: Re: Anyone using their old Mac? > On Sat, Aug 3, 2002 9:20 am, Ethan Dicks wrote: > >> Projects I have not been able to do. > >> 1. Connect any Macintosh running System 6 to the internet > > > >ISTR doing that with MacTCP 1.x (an addon install, not included > >in System 6) and a SCSI<->Ethernet box. I'm fairly certain that > >the ethernet box came with System 6 drivers, but if someone here > >knows that it flat-out can't be done, then I'm probably mistaken. > >I have never tried it with dial-up, if that's what you mean. > > You can down the necessary control panels off the Internet, but I have > never been able to get through to my ISP. I haven't got an Ethernet box. > Problem with Ethernet for the LCII is that it takes the socket you need for > the Apple IIe card. > > -chris added: > > >There are also System 6 drivers for the Farallon Etherwave > >localtalk->ethernet adaptor, however, the Etherwave doesn't support > >TCP/IP (limit of the Appletalk, not of the etherwave), so you have to use > >MacIP (TCP/IP wrapped in AppleTalk), and a MacIP to TCP/IP bridge (like > >IPNetRouter running on another Mac). And again, I see no reason it can't > >be done. > > It would be more useful to be to be able to connect a S6 Mac to the > Internet from any phone socket which is why I was trying to do it dial up. > It is has to go via another machine, then there isn't any advantage. > Obviously you can ethernet another mac to your iMac. > > >> 1. Connected the Apple II to the BBC Micro using the games socket on the > >> Apple and transfered data successfully. (hard) > > > >Did you write a bit-banger serial port for the Apple? > > I am not sure what this expression means. I connected the Apple games > socket to the BBC Micro User port and used an adapted version of the RS232 > serial program which is in the "Red Book" > > > > > > From thedm at sunflower.com Sat Aug 3 12:03:00 2002 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: Anyone using their old Mac? References: Message-ID: <002301c23b0f$d44a69f0$6501a8c0@thedm> Oh, and I think I had to use free mactcp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gavin" To: Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 11:10 AM Subject: Re: Anyone using their old Mac? > On Sat, Aug 3, 2002 9:20 am, Ethan Dicks wrote: > >> Projects I have not been able to do. > >> 1. Connect any Macintosh running System 6 to the internet > > > >ISTR doing that with MacTCP 1.x (an addon install, not included > >in System 6) and a SCSI<->Ethernet box. I'm fairly certain that > >the ethernet box came with System 6 drivers, but if someone here > >knows that it flat-out can't be done, then I'm probably mistaken. > >I have never tried it with dial-up, if that's what you mean. > > You can down the necessary control panels off the Internet, but I have > never been able to get through to my ISP. I haven't got an Ethernet box. > Problem with Ethernet for the LCII is that it takes the socket you need for > the Apple IIe card. > > -chris added: > > >There are also System 6 drivers for the Farallon Etherwave > >localtalk->ethernet adaptor, however, the Etherwave doesn't support > >TCP/IP (limit of the Appletalk, not of the etherwave), so you have to use > >MacIP (TCP/IP wrapped in AppleTalk), and a MacIP to TCP/IP bridge (like > >IPNetRouter running on another Mac). And again, I see no reason it can't > >be done. > > It would be more useful to be to be able to connect a S6 Mac to the > Internet from any phone socket which is why I was trying to do it dial up. > It is has to go via another machine, then there isn't any advantage. > Obviously you can ethernet another mac to your iMac. > > >> 1. Connected the Apple II to the BBC Micro using the games socket on the > >> Apple and transfered data successfully. (hard) > > > >Did you write a bit-banger serial port for the Apple? > > I am not sure what this expression means. I connected the Apple games > socket to the BBC Micro User port and used an adapted version of the RS232 > serial program which is in the "Red Book" > > > > > > From classiccmp at crash.com Sat Aug 3 12:07:01 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (classiccmp@crash.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: NS32k based system Message-ID: <200208031706.g73H6QG17575@io.crash.com> Any number of folks probably have this but what the heck, I had it out... The Nat Semi Series 32000 databook from 1986 lists the following for the ICM-3216 eval board: ICM-3216 uses System V/Series 32000, a validated version of AT&T's Unix System V. System V/Series 32000 is a powerful, multi-tasking, multi-user operating system [...] I hadn't known specifically of a 4.2BSD port, but once I consulted Google I found an early NetBSD tech-kernel posting that mentions a port done at the University of Toronto. No idea how to lay hands on it, but if we could just get the changes it'd be a huge boost in getting e.g. NetBSD running on it. Just thinking that the 4.2BSD code would still be encumbered, etc. Come to think of it, I should see if there's anything on the UCB CSRG archive CDs I got from Kirk McKusick... -- Steve Jones smj@spamfree.crash.com Arlington, Mass. CRASH!! Computing (Remove the "spamfree" portion) 781 / XXX - XXXX The measure of an operating system is in the abstractions it provides. -- Daniel L. Murphy, creator of TECO From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Aug 3 12:11:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: <20020803043121.GB4314@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20020803172851.GA257@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Merle K. Peirce, from writings of Sat, Aug 03, 2002 at 11:31:33AM -0400: > Have you ever tried to find a watch the only tells time? A bit of a Doing so isn't easy. To get started, here's one source for such a watch: The Vermont Country Store - they have an intereting printed catalogue with many hard to find items in it, and a quick search just resulted in discovering that they also have a web site: www.vermontcountrystore.com > I especially care for the time in Latvia or Botswana. I'm not entirely > convinced I need a timepiece with more than one hand, anyway. Ok, what you need then is a sundial! Heck, even just looking at the relative position of the sun in the sky is good enough for me. Why bother and complicate life by worrying about the exact hour? :-) > I'm inclined to get my grandfather's Hamilton overhauled. Good idea - they're nice watches. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From classiccmp at crash.com Sat Aug 3 13:03:01 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M. Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: Early "open hw" projects (was Re: 32k boxen) Message-ID: <200208031802.g73I2oG17663@io.crash.com> I was poking around the links Jochen Kunz posted earlier, which led me to Dave Rand's web site. Dave, along with George Scolaro, were the originators of the PC532 project, both worked at Nat Semi at one point, and had a hand in several other 32k designs including the PD32 that was published in Byte magazine (Nov '85?) and then included as a reprint in the Nat Semi 32k Design Kit. (The PD32 was Dave, George, and one Trevor Marshall actually). There's an archive of the PC532 mailing list at www.bungi.com. I'd forgotten the excitement surrounding this when it started back in 88/89 - it was such a challenge and opportunity to the folks on comp.sys.nsc.32k and the Minix community, to actually pick it up and run with it... I'd be curious to hear about any other "open" hardware projects from this or an earlier era in the Unix community - say, 85-95, when the relentless progress of Moore's Law, Wintel, and Jolitz' 386BSD and its offspring made it impractical or at least less compelling to pursue this kind of thing seriously. While I'm thinking of Bill Jolitz - Jochen, thanks for bringing the Symmetric 375 to my attention. I was unaware of it, but love it - what a great little package! I'd love to get my hands on one... Surely this box enjoyed a fair bit of success? Time to Google... -- Steve Jones smj@spamfree.crash.com Arlington, Mass. CRASH!! Computing (Remove the "spamfree" portion) 781 / XXX - XXXX "The measure of an operating system is in the abstractions it provides." -- Daniel L. Murphy, creator of TECO From foo at siconic.com Sat Aug 3 13:11:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: Before I Ebay.... In-Reply-To: <006401c23aac$e9d791c0$01000001@cvendel> Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Aug 2002, Curt Vendel wrote: > Sorry to spam a for sale, but I wanted to offer this to the group before > Ebaying.... > > Times are getting a little tight, so I have to part with some non-Atari > items, so I am making my Corvus Concept 68000 based computer available for > sale. To help Curt along with this sale, the Corvus Concept is a quasi-GUI machine in that it is all graphics and window based but the extent of the windowing is just to parition the screen for a text-based application, although of course there are applications that take advantage of the graphics. The windows do overlap as well. One of the coolest aspects is the system bus: it is kind of a "superset" of the Apple ][ bus. The edge connectors are the same and the signals are very similar. Frank McConnell can add more to or correct what I am saying here as he knows a bit more about it. The Concept is definitely one of coolest of the early 68000-based workstations. It is contemporaneous with the Apple Lisa having been marketed in the 1982 timeframe. It had a very innovative architecture. A must have. Bid high! :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Aug 3 13:18:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: Early "open hw" projects (was Re: 32k boxen) In-Reply-To: <200208031802.g73I2oG17663@io.crash.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Aug 2002, Steven M. Jones wrote: > While I'm thinking of Bill Jolitz - Jochen, thanks for bringing the > Symmetric 375 to my attention. I was unaware of it, but love it - what a > great little package! I'd love to get my hands on one... Surely this box > enjoyed a fair bit of success? Time to Google... Actually not. The only ones I've ever seen were at VCF Europa in Munich (it makes its appearance every year courtesy of Julian Stacey) and in the collection of the Alameda County Computer Resource Center (of all places). A little while ago I received an e-mail from one Lynne Greer Jolitz talking about the 375. Any relation to Bill? Did Bill have a sex change perhaps? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sat Aug 3 13:23:01 2002 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020803110737.02630cc0@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020803191936.0275f3a0@slave> At 16:15 03/08/2002, you wrote: > > >>All I have to remember is that April, June & November *don't* have 31 > days... > > >You might also want to give some thought to February..... > > I rarely forget February, since it's so much shorter... > >But you DID forget that September does not have 31 days. Damn! So I did. Must remember old saying....Must remember old saying....Must remember old saying.... "30 days has September, April June and November." I forget exactly how the rest of it goes, but I know it mentions "except February alone". -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Aug 3 13:28:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: Before I Ebay.... In-Reply-To: References: <006401c23aac$e9d791c0$01000001@cvendel> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020803142504.457fddce@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:11 AM 8/3/02 -0700, Sellam wrote: > >A must have. Bid high! :) That's easy for you to say! :-) Joe From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Aug 3 13:38:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020803191936.0275f3a0@slave> Message-ID: > > > >>All I have to remember is that April, June & November *don't* have 31 > > days... > > > >You might also want to give some thought to February..... > > > I rarely forget February, since it's so much shorter... > > > >But you DID forget that September does not have 31 days. On Sat, 3 Aug 2002, Adrian Vickers wrote: > Damn! So I did. > Must remember old saying....Must remember old saying....Must remember old > saying.... > "30 days has September, April June and November." I forget exactly how the > rest of it goes, but I know it mentions "except February alone". "30 days hath September, April, June, and November. All the rest have 31, save February, which is all screwed up." OK Julius Caesar swiped a day from February to make his month more grandiose. Then Augustus did the same, in a classical fit of one-ups-manship. But, if July 31 is really from February, then how come it's so hot? Aren't February days normally cold? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 3 13:43:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20020803043121.GB4314@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Aug 3, 2 00:31:21 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1415 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020803/2ca54016/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 3 13:52:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020803072323.025c1378@slave> from "Adrian Vickers" at Aug 3, 2 07:26:35 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1260 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020803/c119d685/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 3 14:11:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20020803172851.GA257@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Aug 3, 2 01:28:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1060 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020803/9a833d10/attachment.ksh From classiccmp at crash.com Sat Aug 3 14:16:01 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M. Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: Early "open hw" projects (was Re: 32k boxen) Message-ID: <200208031912.g73JCwG17786@io.crash.com> > A little while ago I received an e-mail from one Lynne Greer Jolitz > talking about the 375. Any relation to Bill? Did Bill have a sex change > perhaps? I remember Bill's wife being very active and involved in 386BSD getting out into the world, possibly to the extent of taking some interviews. I believe her name is Lynn, but I'm not positive. > > Surely this box enjoyed a fair bit of success? . > Actually not. I suppose I should have inferred this from the fact that I hadn't run across or retained the name. Sad. But I'll defer on picking up the long sad thread of commercial Unix, etc. Doubtless considered too recent by many on the list. ;^) -- Steve Jones smj@spamfree.crash.com Arlington, Mass. CRASH!! Computing (Remove the "spamfree" portion) 781 / XXX - XXXX "The measure of an operating system is in the abstractions it provides." -- Daniel L. Murphy, creator of TECO From ceby2 at csc.com Sat Aug 3 14:24:01 2002 From: ceby2 at csc.com (Colin Eby) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: Anyone using their old Mac? (blacklord) Message-ID: I've been staying at a Crown Plaza in Richmond on a consulting gig. Their whole cardkey access system is based around Macs. The have a special card programming interface that is shaped in the Mac's profile and bolted right to the side. I thought that was a rather good use for such equipment. Who the hell needs PIII to do that job? -Colin Eby CSC Consulting From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Aug 3 14:41:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? References: Message-ID: <3D4C30C5.9010308@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: > And have you tried buying a sundial recently. Most of the ones we see in > the UK are what were termed 'garden rubbish' in the latest issue of > Clocks Magazine. Things that look like sundials but which couldn't > possibly be used to tell the time with any degree of accuracy (if indeed > they tell the time at all). Another book on sundials says 'they are > capable of showning nothing but the ignorance of the manufacturer'. 'Garden Rubbish' Where you expecting something StoneHenge size? StoneHenge is on topic as it was used to calculate lunar eclipes many years ago. > > One day I must get round to making a sundial that's correctly set out and > correctly positioned so that it actually _will_ tell the time. > > Does anyone have any good recomendations for books that describe the > design and operation of some of the more exotic/accurate 'sundials', like > the heliochronometer and the dipleidoscope? Here is one book title that gives a lot of information but is not a sundial plan book. Sundials Their Construction and use R. Newton Mayhall Margaret W. Mayhall ISBN 0-486-41146-X >>relative position of the sun in the sky is good enough for me. Why bother >>and complicate life by worrying about the exact hour? :-) Hey I just am getting useto writing 2002. :) From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat Aug 3 14:58:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: Anyone using their old Mac? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020803125647.023cfec0@mail.zipcon.net> At 05:10 PM 8/3/02 +0100, you wrote: >You can down the necessary control panels off the Internet, but I have >never been able to get through to my ISP. I haven't got an Ethernet box. >Problem with Ethernet for the LCII is that it takes the socket you need for >the Apple IIe card. Use a SCSI<->Ethernet adaptor :) From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Aug 3 15:01:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020803191936.0275f3a0@slave> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020803110737.02630cc0@slave> <5.1.0.14.0.20020803191936.0275f3a0@slave> Message-ID: <33389.64.169.63.74.1028404733.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Must remember old saying....Must remember old saying....Must remember > old saying.... > > "30 days has September, April June and November." I forget exactly how > the rest of it goes, but I know it mentions "except February alone". Thirty days hath September, April, June, and no wonder! All the rest eat peanut butter, except for Grandma, she drives a Buick. -- author unknown From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sat Aug 3 15:36:01 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 03 Aug 2002 20:02:45 BST." Message-ID: <200208031943.UAA02230@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said: > One day I must get round to making a sundial that's correctly set out and > correctly positioned so that it actually _will_ tell the time. > > Does anyone have any good recomendations for books that describe the > design and operation of some of the more exotic/accurate 'sundials', like > the heliochronometer and the dipleidoscope? If you do a search on the web you'll find a lot of sites, some very technical, about sundials. I know because my brother is thinking of making one and he got a lot of info that way. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Aug 3 17:05:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Sundial In-Reply-To: <200208031943.UAA02230@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: www.digitalsundial.com Completely passive optical device - utterly brilliant - I want one! Cheers John From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat Aug 3 17:09:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <33389.64.169.63.74.1028404733.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/08/03/1627246&mode=flat&tid=126 has an article on the Bulova Accutron, the first successful transistorized watch. --John From dittman at dittman.net Sat Aug 3 17:51:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Sundial In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Aug 03, 2002 06:04:42 PM Message-ID: <200208032246.g73MkDs10489@narnia.int.dittman.net> > www.digitalsundial.com > > > Completely passive optical device - utterly brilliant - I want one! Neat. I'd like one, too, but I noticed that two people came up with the idea (written up in Scientific American and some other place), and three others took the idea and patented it. That sounds like an abuse of the patent system. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 3 18:23:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <3D4C30C5.9010308@jetnet.ab.ca> from "Ben Franchuk" at Aug 3, 2 01:36:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1685 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020803/febc4588/attachment.ksh From aek at spies.com Sat Aug 3 19:14:00 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: NS32k based system Message-ID: <200208032247.g73MltA8019323@spies.com> > I hadn't known specifically of a 4.2BSD port NSC's port of BSD is called Genix. One of the people who sold it was AIS (American Information Systems) out of Palo Alto who built a Qbus 32k board which ran Genix, and used RSX11 for I/O From lists at subatomix.com Sat Aug 3 19:33:05 2002 From: lists at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: The guy who threw out the 11/70 (was: Vax 8600 on Ebay) In-Reply-To: <200208011315.g71DF6O32210@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <200208011315.g71DF6O32210@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <43490875.20020803193159@subatomix.com> On Thursday, August 1, 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > Speaking of which, this week I talked to someone that threw out a > PDP-11/70 as they couldn't find anyone that would take it. I told him that > if I'd known I'm sure someone here would probably be interested. Where did he throw it out at? Is there any chance he can un-throw it? He deserves a big bonk on the head. Of course someone would be interested. That someone is me and probably about half the list, which is over 200 people if you count the lurkers! One (quasi-)word: *doh*! -- Jeffrey Sharp The email address lists@subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com. You may need to remove some bugs first. From aw288 at osfn.org Sat Aug 3 19:37:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: Help on IBM 3725 Message-ID: Does anyone have the doc set for an IBM 3725 Controller (fancypants terminal processor for mainframes)? I need to know exactly how to rewire this thing from 208 to 240 Volts, and it is complicated. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From cube1 at charter.net Sat Aug 3 20:28:01 2002 From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: Free: Heath PDP-11-compatible 8" dual-drive unit In-Reply-To: <20020708003152.GL26024@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020803185421.04009ee8@cirithi> I have an H11, but no floppies. But I cannot come to TX. Sigh. Jay At 07:31 PM 7/7/2002 -0500, you wrote: >I've got a RX01-compatible dual-8" floppy drive unit made by Heath >in the bottom of my closet.. I do *not* have the required Heath-made >controller card to go with it... > >Free, YOU MUST PICK IT UP, in Austin, TX. This is too heavy to ship - >heck, its almost too heavy to *move*. Probably weighs at least 75-100 lbs. > >Bill > >-- >Bill Bradford >mrbill@mrbill.net >Austin, TX --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1@charter.net From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Sat Aug 3 21:01:00 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020803191936.0275f3a0@slave> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020804115906.00ba7b68@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 11:37 AM 3/08/2002 -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >OK >Julius Caesar swiped a day from February to make his month more grandiose. >Then Augustus did the same, in a classical fit of one-ups-manship. > >But, if July 31 is really from February, then how come it's so hot? >Aren't February days normally cold? Not where I live - February is usually "blessed" with a number of days over 35C. OTOH, July is colder, say 15C, but it seems to be getting warmer during the winter (if my heating costs are anything to go by). Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Sat Aug 3 21:05:01 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020803072323.025c1378@slave> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020804120118.00ba7b68@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 07:43 PM 3/08/2002 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: >[MEchanical watch] > > > All I have to remember is that April, June & November *don't* have 31 > days... > >Perpetual datework (corrects for short months, and even leap years -- >well, it assumes every 4th year is a leap year, so you have to from it in >most end-of-century years) was fitted to watches over 100 years ago (at >least). I guess this is another thing that has been eliminated by 'progress'. > >Anyway, to remember which months are the short ones, I use the following >little method (partly due to Horrowitz and Hill) which people on this >list should find trivial to do in their head. > >1) Write the month as a 4 bit binary number (January = 0001, February = >0010,... December = 1100). Everyone here knows the binary numbers from 1 >to 12, right? > >2) XOR the MSB and LSB of that number (and ignore the middle 2 bits) > >3) If the result of (2) is 1, then the month has 31 days. If it's 0, then >it's a shorter month. An equivalent (and easier method) is as follows: 1) Make a fist, knuckles up. 2) Starting with the nearest knuckle, counting both knuckles and hollows in between, incant the months. January, March, May, July will fall on knuckles and therefore have 31 days, the months that fall in the gaps don't. Now start from the _front_ again, giving August, October and December. Easy when you know how. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Aug 3 21:21:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:30 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020804120118.00ba7b68@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Aug 2002, Huw Davies wrote: > An equivalent (and easier method) is as follows: > > 1) Make a fist, knuckles up. > > 2) Starting with the nearest knuckle, counting both knuckles and hollows in > between, > incant the months. January, March, May, July will fall on knuckles and > therefore have 31 > days, the months that fall in the gaps don't. Now start from the _front_ > again, > giving August, October and December. > > Easy when you know how. Ooohhh!! I like it! I never _could_ remember that damn rhyme. Fists I understand. Doc From dittman at dittman.net Sat Aug 3 22:11:01 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: The guy who threw out the 11/70 (was: Vax 8600 on Ebay) In-Reply-To: from "Jeffrey Sharp" at Aug 03, 2002 07:31:59 PM Message-ID: <200208040306.g7436Mr11050@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > Speaking of which, this week I talked to someone that threw out a > > PDP-11/70 as they couldn't find anyone that would take it. I told him that > > if I'd known I'm sure someone here would probably be interested. > > Where did he throw it out at? Is there any chance he can un-throw it? No. It is gone. > He deserves a big bonk on the head. Of course someone would be interested. > That someone is me and probably about half the list, which is over 200 > people if you count the lurkers! He tried to find someone to take it, for free, for several months. Unfortunately he didn't have the room to store it any longer. He didn't know about this list, but he does now, and he's going to be joining in the next couple of days. I don't doubt he couldn't find anyone. A couple of months ago I posted about the HSCxx controllers and drives, and nobody has wanted to go to pick them up. They'll end up getting thrown out, too, if someone doesn't pick them up in the next month. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Aug 3 22:16:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: Some Great Finds Today Message-ID: <015701c23b65$20e80f10$28000240@oemcomputer> Picked up the following while out with the wife and one of daughters: 1. Siemens T1000 telex with paper tape punch/reader, it needs some work to bring it back to life. Talked the guy down to $10 for it at the thrift. Anyone know were I can get some technical information on this unit, I tried google with no luck? 2. Burroughs C3660 calculator works great but did not get any of the program cards or manuals for it. Got it for $4.34 3. Some TTL Data Books from 1985. 4. Two HuCards for the TurboGrafx 16 console SplatterHouse and SideArms. 5. Panasonic R.E.A.L 3DO console with one controller for $15. It's a model FZ-1 6. A bunch of books and various cables. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020803/8735cf41/attachment.html From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Aug 3 23:27:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: from Doc Shipley at "Aug 3, 2 09:20:35 pm" Message-ID: <200208040434.VAA29228@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Ooohhh!! I like it! > I never _could_ remember that damn rhyme. Fists I understand. Yep -- I got taught the knuckle calendar in third grade and I never forgot it. People think it's funny when they see me counting months on my hand, though. :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- He is rising from affluence to poverty. -- Mark Twain ---------------------- From foo at siconic.com Sun Aug 4 01:46:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Sundial In-Reply-To: <200208032246.g73MkDs10489@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Aug 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > Neat. I'd like one, too, but I noticed that two people came > up with the idea (written up in Scientific American and some > other place), and three others took the idea and patented > it. That sounds like an abuse of the patent system. How can someone have patented prior art? That's a neat trick. Well, I understand how they could have patented it, but how can that possibly be enforced if it was based on someone elses prior published work? Unless they tweaked it a little, but anyway... Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sun Aug 4 01:51:02 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <200208040434.VAA29228@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Aug 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Ooohhh!! I like it! > > I never _could_ remember that damn rhyme. Fists I understand. > > Yep -- I got taught the knuckle calendar in third grade and I never forgot > it. People think it's funny when they see me counting months on my hand, > though. :-) Jeez, I never knew it took so much effort to remember what months had however many days. I must be some idiot savant or something for being able to just know this off-hand. It's also not difficult to know what years are leap years if you spent any time at all when you were younger writing up calendar programs in BASIC on your first computer. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Aug 4 08:50:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Sundial References: Message-ID: <3D4D3127.7080408@tiac.net> On the subject of patents... You don't need an original idea to get a patent. All you need is an original application, or more technically a unique set of claims for an idea. If you file a patent on an invention, but make an error of omission and leave out some key claim for your device, its perfectly leagal for someone else to see your patent, recognise the missing claims and then file an improvement patent. In reality, a good fraction of all patents appear to be patents on prior art. If you want to better understand the U.S. patent system, don't think like an engineer. There is a method to the apparent maddness, and it works. Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Sat, 3 Aug 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > >>Neat. I'd like one, too, but I noticed that two people came >>up with the idea (written up in Scientific American and some >>other place), and three others took the idea and patented >>it. That sounds like an abuse of the patent system. >> > >How can someone have patented prior art? That's a neat trick. > >Well, I understand how they could have patented it, but how can that >possibly be enforced if it was based on someone elses prior published >work? Unless they tweaked it a little, but anyway... > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020804/dab50e98/attachment.html From celt at chisp.net Sun Aug 4 08:55:01 2002 From: celt at chisp.net (Mike Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: Anyone using their old Mac? References: Message-ID: <3D4D31F4.2010701@chisp.net> Sellam Ismail wrote: > Does anyone here still use their old (say pre-1990) Macintosh as a regular > practice? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > Does my IIgs count? ;-) I use it for little programming projects as the mood strikes me. I'm currently writing an offline newsreader that works through Marinetti, the TCP/IP stack for the IIgs. Mike From jrice54 at charter.net Sun Aug 4 09:02:04 2002 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: Anyone using their old Mac? References: <3D4D31F4.2010701@chisp.net> Message-ID: <3D4D3444.6030908@charter.net> I still use my Plus for making 400k and 800k disk images and software testing, my IIx, IIcx and IIci for A/UX. The IIx and IIci are always on. I also still use my Classic (introduce 10/21/90) for Clarisworks but I will admit that Gobe on the BeBox has almost superceded Claris on the Classic. Mike Maginnis wrote: > Sellam Ismail wrote: > >> Does anyone here still use their old (say pre-1990) Macintosh as a >> regular >> practice? >> >> Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >> Festival >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> International Man of Intrigue and Danger >> http://www.vintage.org >> >> * Old computing resources for business and academia at >> www.VintageTech.com * >> > > Does my IIgs count? ;-) I use it for little programming projects as > the mood strikes me. I'm currently writing an offline newsreader that > works through Marinetti, the TCP/IP stack for the IIgs. > > Mike > > > > From celt at chisp.net Sun Aug 4 09:03:00 2002 From: celt at chisp.net (Mike Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: Klez HELP ! (don't open if in any format) was Re: HEADERS? References: <3D4AE2F8.28986.C79E11@localhost> Message-ID: <3D4D33F7.90706@chisp.net> Lawrence Walker wrote: > It seems that I did not escape Klez. I have had a continuous memory drain > since stupidly opening the first msg. in HTML and memory resources drain > eventually freeze my computer. I come up clean with both the Symantic and > Kaspersky removal tools however. One of the spoofed messages with R.E.s > return path was from Allison warning about klez and recommending the > Kaspersky Klez removal tool. I'd never heard about Kaspersky before. Makes > me seriously wonder about these AV companies. Create a problem and then > sell a solution. > Reminds me of that Farside cartoon where a guy is sitting in his living room reading a wrinkled piece of paper. His window has been broken and there's a brick on the floor in front of him. The piece of paper reads "Brick thrown through your window? Call Rick's Window Repair." Mike From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Aug 4 10:23:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: The guy who threw out the 11/70 (was: Vax 8600 on Ebay) In-Reply-To: <200208040306.g7436Mr11050@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Aug 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > I don't doubt he couldn't find anyone. A couple of months ago I posted > about the HSCxx controllers and drives, and nobody has wanted to go to > pick them up. They'll end up getting thrown out, too, if someone > doesn't pick them up in the next month. I guess I'll add my $0.02 or whatever in here too... I also don't doubt he couldn't find anyone to "haul off" that 11/70. Sadly, I've heard about many things that were posted up for adoption on the list here that ended up junked/dumped simply because no one claimed them. Not to offend anyone, but it seems like if something doesn't have the letters 'DEC' printed on it somewhere, there are far fewer list subscribers interested in it. I currently only own one system made by DEC (MVII/BA123), and while I'd love to get my hands on a PDP11, PDP8, etc, I'll not pass up on systems made by other companies. One such example of an overlooked system is the SGI IRIS 1400 I picked up from a fellow list member here in Houston. I was shocked that no one else had claimed the system before I noticed it. When I posted about it after I started work on it, a number of people emailed me and told me they wanted it if I decided I didn't (not likely). Best I can tell, that particular system is 100% complete, and everything but the hard drive and DSD5215 is original. The IRIS 1000/1200/1400/1500 are the first systems SGI sold. The 1000 and 1200 are both GUI terminals, while the 1400 and 1500 are workstations. The 1400 is a deskside chassis, and the 1500 is a rack-mounted system (with SMD disks, etc). The 1400 I now own is serial number 0095. Apparently, it was originally number 0047, but SGI appears to have remanufactured and resold it. Sadly, I guess there will always be systems and such that get junked because they are overlooked, or the people who want them can't get to them... I'll note this here, since I imagine this thread is going to be read alot: If anyone comes across any JC80 or JC85 gear, _let me know_. I have about 2/3 of a JC80, and I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to make it complete. I doubt such systems are going to turn up very often, if ever. The JC80 and JC85 were custom made building automation computers (typically in big racks) made in the late '70s to the mid '80s. I'd imagine less than 500 of these systems were made worldwide. Sadly, Johnson Controls dumped/junked/scrapped nearly all of the systems that were removed when they were "upgraded" (replaced) with a newer facility management package, so few if any likely remain now. I'll take some photos of what I have if anyone is interested. (The rack-mount portion of the computer itself looks similar to other gear from the same era, large operator's panel with finger-sized rocker switches, etc.) The JC80 system is quite important from a historical perspective. To the best of my knowledge (and that of several people I've talked to), the JC80 was the *first* system designed/sold specifically for building automation. -Toth From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Sun Aug 4 11:20:00 2002 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: The guy who threw out the 11/70 (was: Vax 8600 on Ebay) References: Message-ID: <17bc01c23bd3$4a91e9d0$6401a8c0@dbnh> > Sadly, I've heard about many things that were posted up for adoption on > the list here that ended up junked/dumped simply because no one claimed > them. Not to offend anyone, but it seems like if something doesn't have > the letters 'DEC' printed on it somewhere, there are far fewer list > subscribers interested in it. Well, I have yet to give away my DEC Pro-350, DEC VT-180 and DECWriter IV. No one seems to want to pick them up in Manchester, NH. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Aug 4 11:25:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: The guy who threw out the 11/70 (was: Vax 8600 on Ebay) In-Reply-To: <200208040306.g7436Mr11050@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Aug 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > He tried to find someone to take it, for free, for several > months. Unfortunately he didn't have the room to store it > any longer. He didn't know about this list, but he does now, > and he's going to be joining in the next couple of days. OK The minute that he arrives, EVERYBODY needs to post about WANTING one, and being willing to pay megabucks! If the first thing that he sees is demand and value for them, then he won't do it again. From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Aug 4 11:35:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: The guy who threw out the 11/70 (was: Vax 8600 on Ebay) In-Reply-To: <17bc01c23bd3$4a91e9d0$6401a8c0@dbnh> Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Aug 2002, David Betz wrote: > > Sadly, I've heard about many things that were posted up for adoption on > > the list here that ended up junked/dumped simply because no one claimed > > them. Not to offend anyone, but it seems like if something doesn't have > > the letters 'DEC' printed on it somewhere, there are far fewer list > > subscribers interested in it. > > Well, I have yet to give away my DEC Pro-350, DEC VT-180 and DECWriter > IV. No one seems to want to pick them up in Manchester, NH. I guess location can also play a major role. The IBM display writer that went up for adoption last week for example, I'd love to have. The real issue there is that it isn't economical to ship. (I have more or less two textpak sets, the dual drive unit, and possibly a broken printer for one of those.) -Toth From dittman at dittman.net Sun Aug 4 11:44:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: The guy who threw out the 11/70 (was: Vax 8600 on Ebay) In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" at Aug 04, 2002 09:23:57 AM Message-ID: <200208041639.g74GdF120423@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > He tried to find someone to take it, for free, for several > > months. Unfortunately he didn't have the room to store it > > any longer. He didn't know about this list, but he does now, > > and he's going to be joining in the next couple of days. > > The minute that he arrives, EVERYBODY needs to post about WANTING one, and > being willing to pay megabucks! > If the first thing that he sees is demand and value for them, then he > won't do it again. I guess you didn't read that he tried for *SEVERAL MONTHS* to give the 11/70 away, and nobody would take it. He wouldn't have tossed it if someone would have taken it. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Aug 4 11:53:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: Patents (was: OT: Digital Sundial In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Aug 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > How can someone have patented prior art? That's a neat trick. By relying on the patent examiner not being familiar with the prior art. IBM, for example, got a patent on defining an area of the screen (for scrolling, coloring, etc.) by putting the coordinates of the upper left corner in one 16 bit register, and the coordinates of the lower right in another 16 bit register (look at Int 10h, functions 6 and 7) > Well, I understand how they could have patented it, but how can that > possibly be enforced if it was based on someone elses prior published > work? Unless they tweaked it a little, but anyway... Finding well documented prior art is the best first step for overturning a bogus patent. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jrice54 at charter.net Sun Aug 4 12:04:02 2002 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: The guy who threw out the 11/70 (was: Vax 8600 on Ebay) References: <200208041639.g74GdF120423@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3D4D5EA4.8090801@charter.net> I tried for several months to give away a Vax 11/780 and a couple of tons (literally) of DEC equipment including a pair of 11/34's with enough spare parts to built a couple of other 11/34's. The whole lot went to the scrapper. Of course this was in 1998-1999, but it was all available for free pickup near Dallas. The sad thing was that the whole lot had just been decommsioned and was a couple of months off a DEC/Compaq service contract. There were a couple of pickup loads of manuals and a large raised floor computer room with modular half glass walls, a Liebert A/C unit and a Liebert UPS/power conditioner included. All of the software backup tapes were included. There were racks and racks of tapes. I didn't have storage space and I'm not into large systems anyway, so it was finally scrapped. This was all located at a LOF Automotive glass plant in Sherman, TX. I also had a HP 3000 setup with disk drives, a 9 track tape unit and a lot of terminals, but no takers, so that one was scrapped also. It was at a former Kraft vegetable oil refinery in Sherman. When that plant was shutdown last year, there were 25-30 original Compaq '486 machine s in original configuration and 10-20 IBM 64k cassette port PC's in the attic of the QA lab. They had already scrapped a big IBM unit called a System 7. I remember cabling for the System 7 in around 1973-74. James Eric Dittman wrote: >>>He tried to find someone to take it, for free, for several >>>months. Unfortunately he didn't have the room to store it >>>any longer. He didn't know about this list, but he does now, >>>and he's going to be joining in the next couple of days. >>> >>> >>The minute that he arrives, EVERYBODY needs to post about WANTING one, and >>being willing to pay megabucks! >>If the first thing that he sees is demand and value for them, then he >>won't do it again. >> >> > >I guess you didn't read that he tried for *SEVERAL MONTHS* to >give the 11/70 away, and nobody would take it. He wouldn't >have tossed it if someone would have taken it. > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 4 13:07:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020804120118.00ba7b68@kerberos.davies.net.au> from "Huw Davies" at Aug 4, 2 12:04:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 905 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020804/85f073b1/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Sun Aug 4 13:32:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: The guy who threw out the 11/70 (was: Vax 8600 on Ebay) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Aug 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > I also don't doubt he couldn't find anyone to "haul off" that 11/70. > Sadly, I've heard about many things that were posted up for adoption on > the list here that ended up junked/dumped simply because no one claimed > them. Not to offend anyone, but it seems like if something doesn't have > the letters 'DEC' printed on it somewhere, there are far fewer list > subscribers interested in it. I currently only own one system made by DEC > (MVII/BA123), and while I'd love to get my hands on a PDP11, PDP8, etc, > I'll not pass up on systems made by other companies. The computer collecting scene has been disappointingly faddish at times. Hence all the auctions advertising "Altair/IMSAI" on eBay that had no Altair or IMSAI items. Some people collect names, not computers, and if a name is not popular and well known, few will take the time to research it to find out its significance. Those that take the time to learn the history, which is what a lot of this computer collecting is about anyway, will get the rewards. > One such example of an overlooked system is the SGI IRIS 1400 I picked up > from a fellow list member here in Houston. I was shocked that no one else > had claimed the system before I noticed it. When I posted about it after I > started work on it, a number of people emailed me and told me they wanted > it if I decided I didn't (not likely). Best I can tell, that particular > system is 100% complete, and everything but the hard drive and DSD5215 is > original. Sometimes people aren't paying attention. I think it also might be a result of when the list went completely apeshit and off-topic: people began scanning the subject lines and quickly deleting anything that seemed uninteresting. Perhaps in their haste, they overlook messages offering nice old hardware. > The IRIS 1000/1200/1400/1500 are the first systems SGI sold. The 1000 and > 1200 are both GUI terminals, while the 1400 and 1500 are workstations. The > 1400 is a deskside chassis, and the 1500 is a rack-mounted system (with > SMD disks, etc). The 1400 I now own is serial number 0095. Apparently, it > was originally number 0047, but SGI appears to have remanufactured and > resold it. Good score! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sun Aug 4 14:28:01 2002 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020804120118.00ba7b68@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020804202555.025d1e50@slave> At 18:46 04/08/2002, Tony Duell wrote: >I find it _much_ easier to XOR 2 bits >in my head than to rmember where to start couning from on the back of my >hand. Particularly with that break in the middle. Break in the middle of the back of your hand? Did you drop the soldering iron on it or something? ;) -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From mbg at TheWorld.com Sun Aug 4 14:34:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: The guy who threw out the 11/70 (was: Vax 8600 on Ebay) References: <200208041639.g74GdF120423@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <200208041933.PAA61121068@shell.TheWorld.com> >I tried for several months to give away a Vax 11/780 and a couple of >tons (literally) of DEC equipment including a pair of 11/34's with >enough spare parts to built a couple of other 11/34's. The whole lot >went to the scrapper. Of course this was in 1998-1999, but it was all >available for free pickup near Dallas. The sad thing was that the whole >lot had just been decommsioned and was a couple of months off a >DEC/Compaq service contract. There were a couple of pickup loads of >manuals and a large raised floor computer room with modular half glass >walls, a Liebert A/C unit and a Liebert UPS/power conditioner included. > All of the software backup tapes were included. There were racks and >racks of tapes. I didn't have storage space and I'm not into large >systems anyway, so it was finally scrapped. This was all located at a >LOF Automotive glass plant in Sherman, TX. Aha.. this is probably one of those cases where it all had to go, or none of it could. Companies decommissioning sites typically have this problem since they are not equipped to have people show up and take parts of an installation... They are also probably under time constraints to have the hardware out. This is what happened a couple of years ago with a DECsystem-10 installation in cambridge. I was contacted because a friend of the site knew I was interested in a -10... what I found out was that they had three -10s and other hardware, and it all had to go at one time, and by a certain time. If I hadn't found a team of people who were willing to take parts of the site and help load/unload, it would have gone to the crushers as well. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From meltie at myrealbox.com Sun Aug 4 15:11:01 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: DECServer 200 and the Great Purge In-Reply-To: <200208041933.PAA61121068@shell.TheWorld.com> References: <200208041639.g74GdF120423@narnia.int.dittman.net> <200208041933.PAA61121068@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <1028491699.2756.1.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> During the Great Purge of gatekeeper.dec.com did anyone grab the DECServer 200's bootup files? Specifically: http://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/DEC/DecServer/pr0801eng.sys Alex -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. From classiccmp at crash.com Sun Aug 4 15:32:01 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M. Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: NS32k based system Message-ID: <200208042031.g74KVpG28841@io.crash.com> > I've got a NatSemi ICM-3216 that I'd like to get an OS for. Just occurred to me that there might be another answer, though it may not be what you had in mind... Bruce Culbertson ported Minix to his own 32016-based design, then to the PC532. This was before NetBSD, or even 386BSD - heck, Bruce had probably started the port before the Net 2 release... I'd thought I'd found a copy at ftp.funet.fi, but it turned out just to be a SCSI driver and a utility to talk to his ROM. I'm groveling through old NetBSD/pc532 postings looking for clues, and will likely contact some of those folks if I don't find anything. No idea what it might take to port NetBSD to the ICM-3216. But if someone were to give me one... Well shucks, had to try. ;^) -- Steve Jones smj@spamfree.crash.com Arlington, Mass. CRASH!! Computing (Remove the "spamfree" portion) 781 / XXX - XXXX "The measure of an operating system is in the abstractions it provides." -- Daniel L. Murphy, creator of TECO From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Aug 4 16:15:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: DECServer 200 and the Great Purge In-Reply-To: <1028491699.2756.1.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> References: <200208041639.g74GdF120423@narnia.int.dittman.net> <200208041933.PAA61121068@shell.TheWorld.com> <1028491699.2756.1.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> Message-ID: <34068.64.169.63.74.1028495696.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Alex White asks: > During the Great Purge of gatekeeper.dec.com did anyone grab the > DECServer 200's bootup files? Specifically: > http://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/DEC/DecServer/pr0801eng.sys ftp://ftp.update.uu.se/pub/pdp11/ds/pr0801eng.sys From kris at catonic.net Sun Aug 4 16:58:01 2002 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: [rescue] DECServer 200 and the Great Purge In-Reply-To: <1028491699.2756.1.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> Message-ID: On 4 Aug 2002, Alex White wrote: > During the Great Purge of gatekeeper.dec.com did anyone grab the > DECServer 200's bootup files? Specifically: > http://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/DEC/DecServer/pr0801eng.sys gah. if I'd have known they were doing this, I'd have mirrored it myself. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR TGIFreeBSD IM: 'KrisBSD' "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!" This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security From at258 at osfn.org Sun Aug 4 17:01:01 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: The guy who threw out the 11/70 (was: Vax 8600 on Ebay) In-Reply-To: <200208041933.PAA61121068@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: This is very true. Sometimes the deadlines are very capricious and unrealistic. I dislike having to move a truckload of material on a day's notice or less. On Sun, 4 Aug 2002, Megan wrote: > > >I tried for several months to give away a Vax 11/780 and a couple of > >tons (literally) of DEC equipment including a pair of 11/34's with > >enough spare parts to built a couple of other 11/34's. The whole lot > >went to the scrapper. Of course this was in 1998-1999, but it was all > >available for free pickup near Dallas. The sad thing was that the whole > >lot had just been decommsioned and was a couple of months off a > >DEC/Compaq service contract. There were a couple of pickup loads of > >manuals and a large raised floor computer room with modular half glass > >walls, a Liebert A/C unit and a Liebert UPS/power conditioner included. > > All of the software backup tapes were included. There were racks and > >racks of tapes. I didn't have storage space and I'm not into large > >systems anyway, so it was finally scrapped. This was all located at a > >LOF Automotive glass plant in Sherman, TX. > > Aha.. this is probably one of those cases where it all had to go, or > none of it could. Companies decommissioning sites typically have this > problem since they are not equipped to have people show up and take > parts of an installation... They are also probably under time constraints > to have the hardware out. > > This is what happened a couple of years ago with a DECsystem-10 > installation in cambridge. I was contacted because a friend of > the site knew I was interested in a -10... what I found out was > that they had three -10s and other hardware, and it all had to > go at one time, and by a certain time. If I hadn't found a team > of people who were willing to take parts of the site and help > load/unload, it would have gone to the crushers as well. > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | > | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | > | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | > | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | > | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | > | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From lists at subatomix.com Sun Aug 4 17:06:03 2002 From: lists at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: The guy who threw out the 11/70 (was: Vax 8600 on Ebay) In-Reply-To: <3D4D5EA4.8090801@charter.net> References: <200208041639.g74GdF120423@narnia.int.dittman.net> <3D4D5EA4.8090801@charter.net> Message-ID: <2951283972.20020804170439@subatomix.com> On Sunday, August 4, 2002, James Rice wrote: > I tried for several months to give away a Vax 11/780 and a couple of tons > (literally) of DEC equipment including a pair of 11/34's ... in 1998-1999, > but it was all available for free pickup near Dallas ... manuals and a > large raised floor computer room with modular half glass walls ... racks > and racks of tapes. MAN! That's just a short drive away! If only I had been on the list back then. MAN! For the love of $deity, if anything like this pops up again, *post* it. The list has at least doubled in size since then. I'm sure *someone* would come get it, especially if it's in the DFW area {wink}. -- Jeffrey Sharp The email address lists@subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com. You may need to remove some bugs first. From meltie at myrealbox.com Sun Aug 4 17:33:00 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: [rescue] DECServer 200 and the Great Purge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1028500219.3537.1.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> On Sun, 2002-08-04 at 22:57, Kris Kirby wrote: > On 4 Aug 2002, Alex White wrote: > > During the Great Purge of gatekeeper.dec.com did anyone grab the > > DECServer 200's bootup files? Specifically: > > http://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/DEC/DecServer/pr0801eng.sys > > gah. if I'd have known they were doing this, I'd have mirrored it myself. *nods* We got wind of it a few days before it was pulled, people scrabbled to archive it - people started unco-ordinatedly at first then got it together. Did we collectively get it all? Alex -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. From davebarnes at adelphia.net Sun Aug 4 19:14:01 2002 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: DECServer 200 and the Great Purge References: <200208041639.g74GdF120423@narnia.int.dittman.net> <200208041933.PAA61121068@shell.TheWorld.com> <1028491699.2756.1.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> Message-ID: <3D4DD1E9.809FA286@adelphia.net> yes.. but they are also on the earlier vax condist cdroms as well... Alex White wrote: > During the Great Purge of gatekeeper.dec.com did anyone grab the > DECServer 200's bootup files? Specifically: > http://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/DEC/DecServer/pr0801eng.sys > > Alex > -- > > Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance > like no-one is watching. -- David Barnes davebarnes@adelphia.net OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru and collector of DEC equipment From celt at chisp.net Sun Aug 4 21:25:01 2002 From: celt at chisp.net (Mike Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers Message-ID: <3D4DE1D5.7060605@chisp.net> I wonder how long it will be before some fool donates a PDP or some other piece of kit we hold near and dear to our hearts, to these miscreants. Sure, it's amusing when it's a 286 being pipe-bombed, but probably not so much fun (for me, anyway) when they get their hands on an Amiga or a Sol. It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye... http://www.letsblowitup.com/default.shtml From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sun Aug 4 21:35:01 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: The guy who threw out the 11/70 (was: Vax 8600 on Ebay) References: <17bc01c23bd3$4a91e9d0$6401a8c0@dbnh> Message-ID: <3D4DE43D.F7E42C0E@compsys.to> >David Betz wrote: > Well, I have yet to give away my DEC Pro-350, DEC VT-180 and DECWriter IV. > No one seems to want to pick them up in Manchester, NH. Jerome Fine replies: Nor my RL02 drives and DECwriter III in Toronto! I also have a working (was last time I powered it on) PRO350, but eventually I want to test RT-11 on that hardware. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From univac2 at earthlink.net Sun Aug 4 21:44:00 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: <3D4DE1D5.7060605@chisp.net> Message-ID: on 8/4/02 9:24 PM, Mike Maginnis at celt@chisp.net wrote: > I wonder how long it will be before some fool donates a PDP or some > other piece of kit we hold near and dear to our hearts, to these miscreants. > > Sure, it's amusing when it's a 286 being pipe-bombed, but probably not > so much fun (for me, anyway) when they get their hands on an Amiga or a Sol. > > It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye... > > http://www.letsblowitup.com/default.shtml Ah, another monument to human intelligence. I don't want these people within 500 feet of me or my house. Maybe they'll stop once they burn down a couple hundred thousand acres of forest or something. -- Owen Robertson From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Aug 4 21:45:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: <3D4DE1D5.7060605@chisp.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Aug 2002, Mike Maginnis wrote: > I wonder how long it will be before some fool donates a PDP or some > other piece of kit we hold near and dear to our hearts, to these > miscreants. > > Sure, it's amusing when it's a 286 being pipe-bombed, but probably not > so much fun (for me, anyway) when they get their hands on an Amiga or a > Sol. Ah, just think of all the shrapnel bring propelled in their direction should they even consider going after any big-iron ;) -Toth From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Sun Aug 4 21:46:01 2002 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: The guy who threw out the 11/70 (was: Vax 8600 on Ebay) References: <17bc01c23bd3$4a91e9d0$6401a8c0@dbnh> <3D4DE43D.F7E42C0E@compsys.to> Message-ID: <194101c23c2a$bb7eaf50$6401a8c0@dbnh> > I also have a working (was last time I powered it on) PRO350, > but eventually I want to test RT-11 on that hardware. I'd like to find RT-11 for my Pro380. Anyone know of a source? There was some talk about a hobbiest distribution at one point but I haven't heard anything more about it. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sun Aug 4 21:51:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers References: Message-ID: <3D4DE6FF.93208598@ccp.com> Tothwolf wrote: > > On Sun, 4 Aug 2002, Mike Maginnis wrote: > > > I wonder how long it will be before some fool donates a PDP or some > > other piece of kit we hold near and dear to our hearts, to these > > miscreants. > > > > Sure, it's amusing when it's a 286 being pipe-bombed, but probably not > > so much fun (for me, anyway) when they get their hands on an Amiga or a > > Sol. > > Ah, just think of all the shrapnel bring propelled in their direction > should they even consider going after any big-iron ;) > > -Toth Will all the destruction going on in the news, why can't someone do something more CONSTRUCTIVE and not DEstructive. Any jerk can blow up something, and the WTC disaster is a lesson in spades here. Gary Hildebrand Computer lover and peacenik From thompson at new.rr.com Sun Aug 4 21:57:00 2002 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: <3D4DE1D5.7060605@chisp.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Aug 2002, Mike Maginnis wrote: > I wonder how long it will be before some fool donates a PDP or some > other piece of kit we hold near and dear to our hearts, to these miscreants. > > Sure, it's amusing when it's a 286 being pipe-bombed, but probably not > so much fun (for me, anyway) when they get their hands on an Amiga or a Sol. > > It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye... > > http://www.letsblowitup.com/default.shtml My employer had a VAX 6000-530 which someone proposed selling sledgehammer whacks at in the parking lot. The money was to go to charity but the idea still stank. Fortunately the machine was decommissioned during a November, when parking lots are not hospitable places in Wisconsin, and space was needed urgently in our data center so I was able to give this machine away to a list member before the idea went any farther. From allain at panix.com Sun Aug 4 22:12:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers References: Message-ID: <004b01c23c2d$b11f2b40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > My employer had a VAX 6000-530 which someone > proposed selling sledgehammer whacks at... I got my mVII supposedly from someone who thought it was a windows machine and then dumped it when they learned otherwise. "It's not Windows" Hopefully this bottom-line will apply too to computer bashes/blow-up events. "Let's blow up this Mainframe." "But... It's not Windows." "Oh, that's right, I guess there'd be no point in it." John A. Windows (tm). Lending new meaning to computer destruction. From nerdware at laidbak.com Sun Aug 4 22:19:01 2002 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: PING Sellam Message-ID: <3D4DA7B6.6320.6BF437B3@localhost> I tried to contact you offlist but got a dns lookup error on siconic.com... is that the wrong address, or were there network problems? Thanks. Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From mythtech at mac.com Sun Aug 4 22:31:01 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: Anyone using their old Mac? Message-ID: >It would be more useful to be to be able to connect a S6 Mac to the >Internet from any phone socket which is why I was trying to do it dial up. >It is has to go via another machine, then there isn't any advantage. >Obviously you can ethernet another mac to your iMac. If you are going System 6 to Dialup, you should have no problems. You just need MacTCP and a PPP client (I believe there is one available as part of a MacTCP bundle, if not I believe FreePPP is S6 compat.) The 2nd machine to act as a MacIP router was only if you are doing TCP/IP over AppleTalk, which isn't needed if you have either an ethernet card, or are going thru a dialup modem connected directly to the S6 mac. -chris From celt at chisp.net Sun Aug 4 23:03:00 2002 From: celt at chisp.net (Mike Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers References: <004b01c23c2d$b11f2b40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3D4DF8CC.1070104@chisp.net> John Allain wrote: >>My employer had a VAX 6000-530 which someone >>proposed selling sledgehammer whacks at... > > > I got my mVII supposedly from someone who thought it was > a windows machine and then dumped it when they learned > otherwise. > I got probably more than half my kit that way. "Where's the mouse?" Mike From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Aug 5 02:27:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers References: <3D4DE1D5.7060605@chisp.net> Message-ID: <002801c23c51$1f2485e0$0100000a@deepspacenine> > I wonder how long it will be before some fool donates a PDP or some > other piece of kit we hold near and dear to our hearts, to these miscreants. > > Sure, it's amusing when it's a 286 being pipe-bombed, but probably not > so much fun (for me, anyway) when they get their hands on an Amiga or a Sol. > > It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye... > > http://www.letsblowitup.com/default.shtml These guys have WAY too much free time. I hope they never get hold of a true classic (KIM-1, SYM-1, Amiga, Sol, AIM65, VAX, UK101)... God only knows what they'd do to the poor thing. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Aug 5 04:56:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: References: <3D4DE1D5.7060605@chisp.net> Message-ID: <3D4E04F5.31860.D04DB6D@localhost> More candidates for the Darwin awards. Lawrence > On Sun, 4 Aug 2002, Mike Maginnis wrote: > > > I wonder how long it will be before some fool donates a PDP or some > > other piece of kit we hold near and dear to our hearts, to these > > miscreants. > > > > Sure, it's amusing when it's a 286 being pipe-bombed, but probably not > > so much fun (for me, anyway) when they get their hands on an Amiga or a > > Sol. > > Ah, just think of all the shrapnel bring propelled in their direction > should they even consider going after any big-iron ;) > > -Toth > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Aug 5 09:01:00 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? Message-ID: >Must remember old saying....Must remember old saying....Must remember old >saying.... > >"30 days has September, April June and November." I forget exactly how the >rest of it goes, but I know it mentions "except February alone". You know the knuckle trick, right? (Punch someone until they tell you? No, no..) Make fists, fingers away from you and thumbs tucked under fingers. Put hands together, index fingers touching along their (curved) length. Now count knuckles and gaps between knuckles, leaving out the gap between hands. Like this: Left pinkie knuckle - up, 31 days, January. Space - down, 28(9) days, February. Left ring finger knuckle - up, 31 days, March. Space - down, 30 days, April .... Left index finger knuckle - up, 31 days, July. Right index finger knuckle - up again, 31 days, August space on right hand - down, 30 days, September Right big finger knuckle - up, 31 days, October ..... HTH, - Mark From kentborg at borg.org Mon Aug 5 09:08:00 2002 From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20020803043121.GB4314@rhiannon.rddavis.org>; from rdd@rddavis.org on Sat, Aug 03, 2002 at 12:31:21AM -0400 References: <20020801111425.O45883-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> <20020803043121.GB4314@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20020805100704.A17669@borg.org> On Sat, Aug 03, 2002 at 12:31:21AM -0400, R. D. Davis wrote: > Real watches go tick-tock and require winding. :-) With that I just have to bring up the subject of: Clocks. I have a big analogue clock that says "Western Union", "U.S. Naval Observatory Time", "Self Winding Clock Company, New York". Inside is a pendulum movement and a coil spring that periodically gets wound by a pair of batteries that drive a crude "motor" made of two electromagnets that rock a lever back and fourth, ratcheting up the spring. It makes a cool buzzing sound, as you might expect. There are brackets for a pair of big dry cells in there, but I have a pair of alkaline D-cells in there instead. There is also a red light bulb showing through the face. I lights up when the clock gets a synchronization signal (pulling the second hand to 12). Western Union used to sell time service. I first heard about these clocks years ago reading the old telecom usenet group, and then someone piped up that he had a bunch to sell. I sent my $100 to the total stranger and he sent me my clock. I recently spent more than that getting it repaired (the "shovel" that turns the pendulum's motion into rotary movement had worn down and needed to be built up again). What I have not done is get around making the "U.S. Naval Observatory Time" part true again. I plan to hook it up to my Linux box (which gets time that is traceable to the Naval Observatory), and watch the light glow now and then. I like the idea of having this old technology linked through a computer, the internet, GPS time references, etc. I like the mix. Kinda like my wanting a teletype hooked up to the same Linux box. -kb, the Kent who wears a combination analogue and digital watch on weekdays, but a self-winding (actually "self-charging") analogue display, quartz watch on weekends. From dtwright at uiuc.edu Mon Aug 5 09:19:01 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: <20020803043121.GB4314@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20020805141829.GC1123351@uiuc.edu> I have a Skagen watch that is just that. It has a minute hand, and an hour hand. No alarms or anything. Almost no marks on the face, for that matter, and it looks all sleek and stylish ;) Merle K. Peirce said: > Have you ever tried to find a watch the only tells time? A bit of a > search, usually ending in the toy department. I don't want a watch the > plays music badly. I certainly don't want a watch the subjects me > constantly to telphonic annoyance and harrassment. I don't want a alarm, > that somehow is resistant to to disconnection. I don't want a stop > watch. I don't want a calendar, I have one of those on the wall, nor do > I especially care for the time in Latvia or Botswana. I'm not entirely > convinced I need a timepiece with more than one hand, anyway. > > I'm inclined to get my grandfather's Hamilton overhauled. > > On Sat, 3 Aug 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > > > Quothe Bill Richman, from writings of Thu, Aug 01, 2002 at 11:19:12AM -0500: > > > This is entirely OT, but since we're probably all gadget freaks here, I > > > > Not me. I have no desire for items such as PDAs, digital watches, > > devices that tell me where I'm located geographically, etc. If a > > watch needs batteries, doesn't require winding, and doesn't go > > tick-tock, then I have little interest in it. Real watches go > > tick-tock and require winding. :-) > > > > > thought it would be a good place to ask. My "OnHand" PC watch recently > > > bit the dust, so I'm in the market for a cool new toy to wear on my wrist. > > > > Try a real wrist watch that you have to wind, which goes tick-tock, and > > you'll find more happiness in life. > > > > > I've had various "DataBank" watches, a Timex DataLink, and the OnHand in > > > > Why? > > > > > the past. Not long ago I got a Kyocera PDA/Phone that handles most of the > > > functions the watch used to provide, so now I'm just looking for something > > > fun. I like BIG, HEAVY, INDUSTRIAL watches, so none of those effeminate > > > little dressy things! I'm currently thinking about either a Casio camera > > > watch, or a Timex "Internet Messenger" watch. Samsung has released a > > > > Talk about information overload... yikes. You need a wind up watch, and you > > need it fast. > > > > > cell-phone watch in Japan, but not available in the US yet, priced at > > > > Weird. > > > > > $1,000, and duplicates the function of my existing phone. Any > > > suggestions? > > > > Yes, a wind up watch that goes tick-tock; it will simplify your life. > > > > > > -- > > Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > > > > M. K. Peirce > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From dtwright at uiuc.edu Mon Aug 5 09:44:01 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: <002801c23c51$1f2485e0$0100000a@deepspacenine> References: <3D4DE1D5.7060605@chisp.net> <002801c23c51$1f2485e0$0100000a@deepspacenine> Message-ID: <20020805144322.GD1123351@uiuc.edu> Philip Pemberton said: > These guys have WAY too much free time. > I hope they never get hold of a true classic (KIM-1, SYM-1, Amiga, Sol, > AIM65, VAX, UK101)... God only knows what they'd do to the poor thing. uh... blow it up? "uh-huh, huh, huh... blowing shit up is cool... huh..." > > Later. > -- > Phil. > philpem@dsl.pipex.com > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Aug 5 11:30:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:31 2005 Subject: WTB: MicroVAX 3300 (or similar in a BA215 enclosure) In-Reply-To: <20020805144322.GD1123351@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: Does anyone know where I could find an working one of these? I'd be willing to pay or trade for it. I've a complete NeXTstation (slab, monitor, mouse, keyboard, and fresh NS 3.3 install) or I /may/ be able to get some SGI gear, Indigo^2 variety, that I could part with. Thanks. -brian. From foo at siconic.com Mon Aug 5 12:39:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Ingore (unless you're Paul Braun) Re: PING Sellam In-Reply-To: <3D4DA7B6.6320.6BF437B3@localhost> Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Aug 2002, Paul Braun wrote: > I tried to contact you offlist but got a dns lookup error on > siconic.com... is that the wrong address, or were there network > problems? Sorry to use the list for this... Paul, it looks like the problem is on your end or something. I just tried sending you a reply to this and it bounced: ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- (reason: 553 5.3.0 Mail failed; see http://www.winsite.com/cgi-bin/wsgemail) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to grover.winsite.com.: >>> MAIL From: <<< 553 5.3.0 Mail failed; see http://www.winsite.com/cgi-bin/wsgemail 501 5.6.0 Data format error I've never seen that error before. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From RMeenaks at OLF.COM Mon Aug 5 12:45:00 2002 From: RMeenaks at OLF.COM (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Differences between the Double Eurocard and VME Message-ID: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B558478027B4B05@exchange.olf.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020805/3b910c74/attachment.html From hofmanwb at worldonline.nl Mon Aug 5 12:55:01 2002 From: hofmanwb at worldonline.nl (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3300 (or similar in a BA215 enclosure) References: Message-ID: <003401c23ca8$dc2e7680$01f8f1c3@cx> I have one for you in Arnhem, The Netherlands, but shipping would be a bit expensive. Would it not. be handy if you specified your location when you make such a request? Wim ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Chase To: Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 6:29 PM Subject: WTB: MicroVAX 3300 (or similar in a BA215 enclosure) > Does anyone know where I could find an working one of these? I'd be > willing to pay or trade for it. I've a complete NeXTstation (slab, > monitor, mouse, keyboard, and fresh NS 3.3 install) or I /may/ be able > to get some SGI gear, Indigo^2 variety, that I could part with. > > Thanks. > > -brian. > > From pcw at mesanet.com Mon Aug 5 12:56:01 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Differences between the Double Eurocard and VME In-Reply-To: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B558478027B4B05@exchange.olf.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Aug 2002, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > > Hi, > > Can someone please tell me what the differences are between the double > eurocard and the vmebus? > Are they compatible between each other? Specifically, can I take a > IMSB012 Double Eurocard transputer > motherboard and hook it up in a VME chasis to operate in conjuction with > a IMSB011/IMSB012/IMSB014/IMSB016 > VME transputer boards? They look like they are they same, but I really > dont know.... > > > Thanks, > > > Ram > Not sure but isn't the Eurocard standard just a mechanical spec? > > © 2002 OpenLink Financial > > Copyright in this message and any attachments remains with us. It is > confidential and may be legally privileged. If this message is not > intended for you it must not be read, copied or used by you or > disclosed to anyone else. Please advise the sender immediately if > you have received this message in error. > > Although this message and any attachments are believed to be free of > any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into > which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the > recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility > is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss or damage in any > way arising from its use. > > > > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Aug 5 13:05:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3300 (or similar in a BA215 enclosure) In-Reply-To: <003401c23ca8$dc2e7680$01f8f1c3@cx> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Aug 2002, W.B.(Wim) Hofman wrote: > I have one for you in Arnhem, The Netherlands, but shipping would be a > bit expensive. Would it not. be handy if you specified your location > when you make such a request? Yes, you're right. I'm in Los Angeles; so, preferably I'd want to deal with someone in the U.S. or Canada. -brian. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Brian Chase > To: > Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 6:29 PM > Subject: WTB: MicroVAX 3300 (or similar in a BA215 enclosure) > > > > Does anyone know where I could find an working one of these? I'd be > > willing to pay or trade for it. I've a complete NeXTstation (slab, > > monitor, mouse, keyboard, and fresh NS 3.3 install) or I /may/ be able > > to get some SGI gear, Indigo^2 variety, that I could part with. > > > > Thanks. > > > > -brian. From RMeenaks at OLF.COM Mon Aug 5 13:31:01 2002 From: RMeenaks at OLF.COM (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Differences between the Double Eurocard and VME Message-ID: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B558478027B4B0C@exchange.olf.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020805/92e8a399/attachment.html From pcw at mesanet.com Mon Aug 5 13:58:01 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Differences between the Double Eurocard and VME In-Reply-To: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B558478027B4B0C@exchange.olf.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Aug 2002, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > > Hi, > > If it is just a mechanical difference, then why would transtech (who > manufactured the TMB12 and TMB14/TMB16) say that the Double Eurocard is > NOT the same as the VMEBus??? What I said was that I thought the Eurocard spec was just a mechanical spec, meaning that some card specified as a Eurocard can have _any_ kind of electrical specs and signal types and order. If a card was a VME card, it would be represented as such... > > Here is the snippet from their product description: > > The TMB12 will fit into standard 6U, 220mm deep enclosures > with DIN41612 connectors. Please note that the TMB12 is > not compatible with VMEbus backplanes (see TMB14 and > TMB15 for VMEbus interfaces). > > http://www.transtech.co.uk/transpdf/tmb12.pdf > > > Is the Double Extended Eurocard the same as the Double Eurocard? > > > Thanks, > > Ram > > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Aug 5 14:16:01 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Differences between the Double Eurocard and VME In-Reply-To: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B558478027B4B05@exchange.olf.com>; from RMeenaks@OLF.COM on Mon, Aug 05, 2002 at 20:01:22 CEST References: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B558478027B4B05@exchange.olf.com> Message-ID: <20020805210854.A38295@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.08.05 20:01 Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: [some HTML stuff that I am not willing to parse] Please send mails as plain ACSII Text to this list. Thanks. Judging from the subject: You are messing up a mechanical standard for PCBs and a electrical standard of a bus system. A Eurocard doesn't need to be a VME card. But as VME uses the Eurocard mechanical standard for its physical dimensions, a VME card is a Eurocard. You may read the very informative VMEbus FAQ at http://www.vita.com/vmefaq/index.html -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Mon Aug 5 15:02:01 2002 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (jos.mar) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Available : Tektronix 8002 microprocessor lab. Message-ID: <3D4688CF000A0B79@mta11n.bluewin.ch> (added by postmaster@bluewin.ch) But not, as usual, in the west of the USA, but in the east of Belgium. Local pickup only, of course... 2x Z80, 8080, 6800 and 2650. All in one single system. BTW : a nice CP/M machine would make an ideal trade... Jos Dreesen From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Mon Aug 5 15:02:38 2002 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (jos.mar) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Tips/leads for Nat Semi 32k system(s)? In-Reply-To: <200208012310.g71NAxG13572@buserr.crash.com> References: <200208012310.g71NAxG13572@buserr.crash.com> Message-ID: <3D4688CF000A0B76@mta11n.bluewin.ch> (added by postmaster@bluewin.ch) On Friday 02 August 2002 12:10 am, you wrote: > Anybody have a suggestion for locating some kind of system based > on the Nat Semi 32k family? At this stage the only preference I'd > state is that it be a vaguely "open" platform (e.g. CompuPro's old > 32016 S-100 board - I'd love a system built around one of these) > or run some flavor of Unix (a la Nat Semi's Genix boxes or the > Tektronix workstations). > > Niklaus Wirth's Ceres machines, based on his Oberon language, are NS32xxx based. I vaguely recall that schematics have been published. Jos Dreesen From sipke at wxs.nl Mon Aug 5 16:13:01 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Available : Tektronix 8002 microprocessor lab. References: <3D4688CF000A0B79@mta11n.bluewin.ch> (added by postmaster@bluewin.ch) Message-ID: <009101c23cc4$c5377dc0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> If you are not in a hurry You can choose betweeen a Kaypro II (5.25"Floppy) or a Grundy (Harddisk and 8" Floppy based) The Grundy comes with loads of software (i.e ZCPR3) and documentation. The Grundy system is build in some kinda DEC-towercase cause the original DESK-system (not desktop that is ..) was too lumpy. I didn't use these systems for a couple of years but they should be OK. I'm going from the Netherlands (Noordwijk) to France around 20 Sept.2002........ Sipke de Wal --------------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx --------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "jos.mar" To: Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 11:01 PM Subject: Available : Tektronix 8002 microprocessor lab. > > But not, as usual, in the west of the USA, but in the east of Belgium. > Local pickup only, of course... > > 2x Z80, 8080, 6800 and 2650. All in one single system. > > BTW : a nice CP/M machine would make an ideal trade... > > > Jos Dreesen > From Thilo.Schmidt at unix-ag.org Mon Aug 5 16:17:00 2002 From: Thilo.Schmidt at unix-ag.org (Thilo Schmidt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Differences between the Double Eurocard and VME In-Reply-To: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B558478027B4B0C@exchange.olf.com> Message-ID: Hi Ram, please don't post html, it's a pain to read... On 05-Aug-2002 Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: >

If it is just a mechanical difference, then why would > transtech > (who manufactured the TMB12 and TMB14/TMB16) say that the Double Eurocard is > NOT the same as the VMEBus???

> >

Here is the snippet from their product description: >

> >

The TMB12 will fit into standard 6U, 220mm deep > enclosures >
with DIN41612 connectors. Please note that the TMB12 > is >
not compatible with VMEbus backplanes (see TMB14 and >
TMB15 for VMEbus interfaces). They don't say that "the Double Eurocard is NOT the same as the VMEBus" they say that "the TMB12 is not compatible with VMEbus backplanes". If you look at the Spec of the B12 and the B14 you will notice that on the B14 the upper Edge Connector is used as the VMEbus Interface. On the B12 it is used for Transputer Link-Connections. I'm pretty sure that neither the VMEbus, nor the transputer-links be very happy when they are connected to each other... ;-) The lower edge Connectors on both boards use the Inmos-Interface, so you can Connect the B12 and the B14 via some Inmos Backplane (Inmos ITEM for example) and the B14 with some VMEbus System via the upper edge connector. btw. do you have some docs for the Parsytec BBK-PC2, the MSC MB1T9S-PC-1 or HEMA TA1C. I'm currently writing new Linux-drivers for transputer-link-interfaces and I would like to support more boards than just the B004... bye Thilo From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Aug 5 16:21:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Available : Tektronix 8002 microprocessor lab. In-Reply-To: <009101c23cc4$c5377dc0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> References: <3D4688CF000A0B79@mta11n.bluewin.ch> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020805172216.0e6780b2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> FWIW Mike Haas has a pile of software and manuals for the 8002s. Joe At 11:12 PM 8/5/02 +0200, you wrote: >If you are not in a hurry > >You can choose betweeen a Kaypro II (5.25"Floppy) >or a Grundy (Harddisk and 8" Floppy based) >The Grundy comes with loads of software (i.e ZCPR3) >and documentation. The Grundy system is build in some >kinda DEC-towercase cause the original DESK-system >(not desktop that is ..) was too lumpy. I didn't use these >systems for a couple of years but they should be OK. > >I'm going from the Netherlands (Noordwijk) to France >around 20 Sept.2002........ > >Sipke de Wal >--------------------------------------------------- >http://xgistor.ath.cx >--------------------------------------------------- > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "jos.mar" >To: >Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 11:01 PM >Subject: Available : Tektronix 8002 microprocessor lab. > > >> >> But not, as usual, in the west of the USA, but in the east of Belgium. >> Local pickup only, of course... >> >> 2x Z80, 8080, 6800 and 2650. All in one single system. >> >> BTW : a nice CP/M machine would make an ideal trade... >> >> >> Jos Dreesen >> > From RMeenaks at OLF.COM Mon Aug 5 16:44:00 2002 From: RMeenaks at OLF.COM (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Differences between the Double Eurocard and VME Message-ID: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B558478027B4B25@exchange.olf.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020805/cbca4009/attachment.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 5 18:43:04 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: <3D4DE6FF.93208598@ccp.com> from "Gary Hildebrand" at Aug 4, 2 09:46:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 572 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020805/6dabaf2a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 5 18:43:44 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Differences between the Double Eurocard and VME In-Reply-To: from "Peter C. Wallace" at Aug 5, 2 11:57:28 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 866 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020805/b9622576/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 5 18:43:53 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20020805100704.A17669@borg.org> from "Kent Borg" at Aug 5, 2 10:07:04 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3385 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020805/a76e9340/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 5 18:44:04 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Differences between the Double Eurocard and VME In-Reply-To: from "Peter C. Wallace" at Aug 5, 2 10:55:54 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2050 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020805/85659fd3/attachment.ksh From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Mon Aug 5 19:17:01 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Geek Joke Message-ID: <001501c23cde$89ea38b0$3200a8c0@winnt> This came across the Virginia Tech Technical Support list server today: There are 10 types of people in the world.... Those who understand binary, and those who don't. From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Aug 5 19:49:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: The guy who threw out the 11/70 (was: Vax 8600 on Ebay) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > This is very true. Sometimes the deadlines are very capricious and > unrealistic. I dislike having to move a truckload of material on a day's > notice or less. Speaking of truckloads...I just talked to the guys in Hartford with the Univacs. I think we ought to go fetch them on the same day, with my truck going West and yours going East. Would next week (late) be OK? The week after? A weekend is also a possibility. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Aug 5 19:56:01 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: The guy who threw out the 11/70 (was: Vax 8600 on Ebay) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Speaking of truckloads...I just talked to the guys in Hartford with the > Univacs. I think we ought to go fetch them on the same day, with my truck > going West and yours going East. Would next week (late) be OK? The week > after? A weekend is also a possibility. Oops...just for Merle. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Aug 5 19:58:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20020805100704.A17669@borg.org> Message-ID: > I have a big analogue clock that says "Western Union", "U.S. Naval > Observatory Time", "Self Winding Clock Company, New York". Well then...I guess I have about 80 of these things. One of the many goodies from the warehouse... Two 35s left today, two remain. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Aug 5 20:05:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Aug 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > Will all the destruction going on in the news, why can't someone do > > something more CONSTRUCTIVE and not DEstructive. Any jerk can blow up > > Because being constructive implies you have a working brain, which > certain people clearly don't! As you said, any jerk can blow up > something, but few people could put it together in the first place. No, I > am not happy about this. > > > something, and the WTC disaster is a lesson in spades here. > > The obvious conclusion to draw from your comments is that these people > are jerks. Something that I entirely agree with. WARNING: Not for the faint of heart. OK, this flame war is getting out of hand... Personally I dont see anything wrong with people doing * to whatever they own, including their body. That's my opinion. It sickens me to see people that try to tell them 'No! I know what's better for you!' This is the same attitude that is gonna allow the MPAA and RIAA to do * to your computer, legally, in the interests of 'copyright protection.' So, can we all just *pretend* to get along, and drop this silly thread? -- Pat From rschaefe at gcfn.org Mon Aug 5 20:32:01 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers References: Message-ID: <008f01c23ce9$304a08c0$65469280@y5f3q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Finnegan" To: Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 09:04 PM Subject: Re: Blowing Up Old Computers > > OK, this flame war is getting out of hand... Personally I dont see > anything wrong with people doing * to whatever they own, including their > body. That's my opinion. It sickens me to see people that try to tell > them 'No! I know what's better for you!' This is the same attitude that > is gonna allow the MPAA and RIAA to do * to your computer, legally, in the > interests of 'copyright protection.' Flames? Where? This didn't look like a flamewar to me (at least, not yet-- give me a minute... ;) It sounded to me like people commiserating the fact that others have to break up *, that would be much cherished by some, just because they can't see a use for it. In a throw-away society, destruction as entertainment should be avoided. As for `* to your own body' (talk about topic drift!), well, people have as much right to mark the current fads indelibly on their body as I do to snicker at them. That's my flam^H^H^H^Hopinion. Ob Classiccmp: How many non-wintel laptops are on-topic? My SPARCbook2 fits the bill I believe, are there any others? Not even clones or nearly-clones, but honest-to-goodness Alternative Architectures? > > So, can we all just *pretend* to get along, and drop this silly thread? > > -- Pat Bob From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Mon Aug 5 20:37:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers References: <008f01c23ce9$304a08c0$65469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: <000a01c23ce9$a01236f0$3200a8c0@winnt> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Schaefer" > Ob Classiccmp: How many non-wintel laptops are on-topic? My SPARCbook2 > fits the bill I believe, are there any others? Not even clones or > nearly-clones, but honest-to-goodness Alternative Architectures? > > Bob > I would guess that my 32K Tandy Model 100 would be on topic. From chaplainjones at earthlink.net Mon Aug 5 21:52:00 2002 From: chaplainjones at earthlink.net (Alan Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Zenith Data Systems ZWL-3202-6 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020805183150.00b69d50@mail.earthlink.net> Can someone direct me to some documentation for this computer? Maybe a owners manual. Also, I am looking for the specs on the co-processor and ram especially. Happy Computing, Alan From kdowd at navix.net Mon Aug 5 21:52:57 2002 From: kdowd at navix.net (Dowd(s)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Great Find Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020805205420.00b1e128@mail.navix.net> John, The Logi-Tran 4 was the follow on to the Logi-Tran 2. I used both to teach EE370 in 1979 or 1980. As you've no doubt learned by now, it's basically a "50 in 1"-ish logic trainer with spring connectors, switches (inputs), lights (outputs), and of course, the logic ckts themselves. It was a great trainer for our digital lab (I was the TA). I remember making a 4 bit calculator with one of my more talented students by hooking up a Logi-Tran 2 and a Logi-Tran 4 (we used lots of gates) side by side. If you've let it sit because of the lack of a manual, just start setting up the ckt emulation of a logical statement (I seem to remember that the Logi-Tran used NORs and NANDs). There was some limit on the output drive of each gate, but my memory doesn't have all the details. Hope you have had fun. Let me know if you get bored with it and want to get rid of it. Later... Kevin Dowd From kdowd at navix.net Mon Aug 5 21:53:01 2002 From: kdowd at navix.net (Dowd(s)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Fwd: Re: Great Find Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020805210256.00b5a570@mail.navix.net> John, Here's a USN site with a small fact sheet. http://www.ntsc.navy.mil/Files/DEVICE_INVENTORY/Final//6F12.pdf Kevin. >Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 21:00:50 -0500 >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >From: "Dowd(s)" >Subject: Re: Great Find > >John, > >The Logi-Tran 4 was the follow on to the Logi-Tran 2. I used both to >teach EE370 in 1979 or 1980. As you've no doubt learned by now, it's >basically a "50 in 1"-ish logic trainer with spring connectors, switches >(inputs), lights (outputs), and of course, the logic ckts themselves. It >was a great trainer for our digital lab (I was the TA). > >I remember making a 4 bit calculator with one of my more talented students >by hooking up a Logi-Tran 2 and a Logi-Tran 4 (we used lots of gates) side >by side. > >If you've let it sit because of the lack of a manual, just start setting >up the ckt emulation of a logical statement (I seem to remember that the >Logi-Tran used NORs and NANDs). There was some limit on the output drive >of each gate, but my memory doesn't have all the details. > >Hope you have had fun. Let me know if you get bored with it and want to >get rid of it. > >Later... > >Kevin Dowd From bill_r at inebraska.com Mon Aug 5 21:53:10 2002 From: bill_r at inebraska.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: <200208040434.VAA29228@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Aug 2002 15:49:39 -0700 (PDT), Sellam Ismail wrote: > I must be some idiot savant or something You may be half right... ;-) -Bill Richman (bill_r@inetnebr.com) Web Page: http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer Simulator, Fun with Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities. From lists at subatomix.com Mon Aug 5 22:08:03 2002 From: lists at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: What about DOS-11? (was: Does anybody care about XXDP?) In-Reply-To: <3D4B2EC8.DCCAB803@gmx.net> References: <3D4B2EC8.DCCAB803@gmx.net> Message-ID: <18155805917.20020805220641@subatomix.com> [CCers: found this on info-pdp11, though it might be good on CC] On Friday, August 2, 2002, Frank Arnold wrote: > DOS-11 was (to the best of my knowledge) the predecessor of RSX-11D, and > more or less the first disk-implementation of the famous > "papertape-programming software package" for PDP-11. I haven't heard much talk about DOS-11 or DOS/BATCH (same thing?) on the various lists. Is that because nobody cares to mess with it, or is it because it and its manuals are unobtanium? I have about 200 or so DECtapes that came with my 11/20, and I believe that DOS-11 and several versions of FORTRAN-11 are stored on them. The previous owner also believed that he left DOS-11 running in the core as well. This is going to be a fun machine to play with when I get around to it. -- Jeffrey Sharp The email address lists@subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please send off-list mail to roach jss at wasp subatomix beetle dot com. You may need to remove some bugs first. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Mon Aug 5 23:07:01 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Anyone Care About RT-11 Message-ID: <3D4F4B1B.2FEECC1F@compsys.to> In regard to the Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 I have now finished the verification tasks that I feel are needed to ensure that I am producing correct images. I will be making some copies of the CD images from: ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/cd-images/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RSX-11/ I have finally been able to reproduce all 3 CD labels. The 2 RSX-11 labels are quite well done. I hope to improve the RT-11 label - it has all the information, but the label is about 1/4" off centre. If I have not been able to obtain a better copy of the RT-11 CD labels by the time the CDs are being made, then I will just use what I have. I have also been able to get to the post office and check a sample package for the postage. The total amount in US dollars (all inquiries but one have been from the US) will be: ($ 5.00 / $ 9.00 / $ 12.00) for (1 / 2 / 3) CDs when I use standard CD-R blanks. In addition, I understand that Black Label CDs have a longer shelf life and are available at Business Depot. If anyone wants those instead, add $ 1.00 for each CD that you are requesting. Thus that price range will be ($ 6.00 / $ 11.00 / $ 15.00) Please include your mailing address!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In general, I will regard any funds you send as a gift so that if anyone really can't afford the CDs, please state why that is so. Outside of the US, probably add about $ 1.00 should be sufficient. If you are receiving this notice via a public list, I will send you my mailing address when you ask me to burn the CDs. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Mon Aug 5 23:17:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Nigerian Scam Message-ID: <3D4F4D83.7A1D9E13@compsys.to> Do the police care about the Nigerian Scam? Is there anything they can even do? NOTE: This was sent to me personally, NOT to classiccmp. But I can't remember if anyone even cares any more and I should just toss it?????? ================================================ Email:victorowode@mail.com Dear Sir, I am Mr.victor owode. Bank Manager of Diamond Bank of Nigeria, Lagos Branch. I have urgent and very confidential business proposition for you. On June 6, 1997, [Snip - not much point to have the rest] ================================================= I can't remember what advice was given last time - just toss it or since September 11th, are the police so bogged down with real problems? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Mon Aug 5 23:40:01 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Non-Intel Laptops was Re: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: <008f01c23ce9$304a08c0$65469280@y5f3q8> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020806143727.02426d18@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 09:32 PM 5/08/2002 -0400, Robert Schaefer wrote: >Ob Classiccmp: How many non-wintel laptops are on-topic? My SPARCbook2 >fits the bill I believe, are there any others? Not even clones or >nearly-clones, but honest-to-goodness Alternative Architectures? Well obviously things like the Epson PX-8 and HX-20. The Tandy/Radio Shack 100? There's sure to be a 10 year old Mac laptop or two. I think the Digital AlphaBook is more than 10 years old too - this being the only "old" laptop I'd pay real money for. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 6 00:16:04 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Nigerian Scam In-Reply-To: <3D4F4D83.7A1D9E13@compsys.to> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Aug 2002, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > Do the police care about the Nigerian Scam? Is there anything they > can even do? > > NOTE: This was sent to me personally, NOT to classiccmp. But > I can't remember if anyone even cares any more and I should just > toss it?????? There's some URL or e-mail address you can forward it to. I don't remember what it was. Try searching for "nigerian 419 scam". I've been getting around 5-6 a week for the last couple weeks. Some punk bitch in Nigeria just got his hands on a mailing list and a server apparently. Just ignore them. If anyone is stupid enough to fall for this then they deserve to be looted. Judging by the fact that this scam has been around for ages and that these letters just keep coming, it is apparent that there are in fact some people stupid enough to fall for it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From sipke at wxs.nl Tue Aug 6 05:03:01 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Nigerian Scam References: <3D4F4D83.7A1D9E13@compsys.to> Message-ID: <00dd01c23d30$680863a0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Hey....... They've improved .......... I used to get these kinda mails in caps only. They must have earned enough to scrap the old teletype............. Sipke de Wal -------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx -------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerome H. Fine" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 6:16 AM Subject: Nigerian Scam > Do the police care about the Nigerian Scam? Is there anything they > can even do? > > NOTE: This was sent to me personally, NOT to classiccmp. But > I can't remember if anyone even cares any more and I should just > toss it?????? > > ================================================ > > Email:victorowode@mail.com > > Dear Sir, > > I am Mr.victor owode. Bank Manager of Diamond Bank of > Nigeria, Lagos Branch. I have urgent and very > confidential business proposition for you. On June 6, > 1997, [Snip - not much point to have the rest] > > ================================================= > > I can't remember what advice was given last time - just toss it or > since September 11th, are the police so bogged down with real > problems? > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > -- > If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail > address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk > e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be > obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the > 'at' with the four digits of the current year. > > > From mbg at TheWorld.com Tue Aug 6 07:47:01 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Non-Intel Laptops was Re: Blowing Up Old Computers References: Message-ID: <200208061246.IAA72046805@shell.TheWorld.com> >There's sure to be a 10 year old Mac laptop or two. I think the Digital >AlphaBook is more than 10 years old too - this being the only "old" >laptop I'd pay real money for. I have one... at least at work... I've been using it recently to do some testing. Linux runs on it just fine... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From celt at chisp.net Tue Aug 6 08:30:00 2002 From: celt at chisp.net (Mike Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Geek Joke References: <001501c23cde$89ea38b0$3200a8c0@winnt> Message-ID: <3D4FCF05.8040606@chisp.net> Christopher McNabb wrote: > This came across the Virginia Tech Technical Support list server today: > > There are 10 types of people in the world.... Those who understand binary, > and those who don't. > > > And for those who like to wear their geek humor, that's available on a t-shirt over at thinkgeek.com Mike From kentborg at borg.org Tue Aug 6 08:34:00 2002 From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: ; from ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk on Tue, Aug 06, 2002 at 12:21:12AM +0100 References: <20020805100704.A17669@borg.org> Message-ID: <20020806093348.A24917@borg.org> On Tue, Aug 06, 2002 at 12:21:12AM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > Can I conclude from this that the clock movement is relatively > conventional, with (say) an anchor escapement. I am afraid I know little about clocks. I know a fair amount about time, but that is different. > My next question may sound silly : Was it designed to keep good time? I think so. The pendulum is adjustable and there is a notice saying how many seconds each turn is worth. Also, the synchronization pulse can pull the seconds forward of back, I'd say it is happy to adjust within +/- 10 seconds. (Honestly, I can't remember now whether the minute hand also zeros on the pulse--I think so.) After I had it repaired I was ajusting it and for a while it was running *perfectly*. Or at least better than a quartz watch. It was as though I was sending sync pulses. It ran that way for well over a week. > There is one part of this mechanism I can't help telling you about. [...] Interesting. > Hnng on, what drives what here? Is it a convenional anchor escapement > where the 'scape wheel is driven from the spring remontoir, controlled > by the pendulum, or is it an electrically maintained pendulum with a pawl > and ratchet wheel that drives the hands? I thought the former, but this > part of the description worries me. Now you are getting beyond my knowledge of the terminology. Sounds like some of each, but I wonder whether that makes sense. "pawl and ratchet wheel" sounds like a good description of what is there; the wheel has kinda a sawtooth to it and this shovel-looking thing pulls back, drops down to the next tooth, swings the other way shoving the wheel a seconds-worth, then swings back again for another go. The edge of this shovel (or possibly "prawl") is what got worn down. It wasn't shoving the wheel quite far enough. So what propels the pendulum? It occures to me that I don't know. I know that the electricity is there to wind a spring. I'll have to see if I can see inside. (I think I once removed the hands and face to see all this, but I am reluctant to keep doing that and will look from the side with a bright light.) > I suspect you could have done the repairs yourself... It looked to me like there was metal missing from where it once was and again needed to be. Buying a new part seems unlikely, making a new one seems difficult, and repairing the old one seems a bit magical too. Is it really that easy? Seeing another e-mail that there are a bunch of these in the 'tty warehouse, I think you might want to visit NJ soon and get one. -kb, the Kent who was thinking yesterday that he would also like one of those digital clocks with the flipping metal numbers. P.S. I have also thought it would be neat make a 120 V AC supply with a precise time base (referenced back to the Naval Observatory I suppose) for driving a nice big synchronous motor clock with a beautiful, smooth, sweep second hand that would be right on the button. Are synchronous motors willing to run without damage on the stepped sin wave put out by cheap 12v-to-120v inverters? One of those might make a good starting point. From kentborg at borg.org Tue Aug 6 08:45:01 2002 From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Differences between the Double Eurocard and VME In-Reply-To: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B558478027B4B25@exchange.olf.com>; from RMeenaks@OLF.COM on Mon, Aug 05, 2002 at 06:00:32PM -0400 References: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B558478027B4B25@exchange.olf.com> Message-ID: <20020806094435.B24917@borg.org> On Mon, Aug 05, 2002 at 06:00:32PM -0400, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: >SOrry about the HTML, its outlooks fault... It is possible to turn that off. Figure out how. -kb From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Aug 6 08:48:00 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Outlook Text Setting [was: Differences between the...] Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467ADF@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> From: Ram Meenakshisundaram [mailto:RMeenaks@OLF.COM] Hi Thilo, ..... SOrry about the HTML, its outlooks fault... Cheers, Ram FYI - I just looked here in my Outlook 2000. If you go into the Tools menu, select Options, then click on the Mail Format tab, at the top you should see an option that says "See in this message format:" There you can select Plain Text. But that doesn't change the format when you're replying to a message. And/or, if your creating/replying to a message, if you go into the Format menu (in the same message composition window) you can change it to Plain Text for that specific message. I use Outlook for composing messages. If your using Word to compose the e-mail, I suggest you change that in the "Tools - Options - Mail Format" window. If you have a specific question about this, e-mail me directly. :) Personally, I feel that if you use common sense, Outlook can be _almost_ as safe as Pine. Too bad it's Microsoft that's developing and supporting it. --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From allain at panix.com Tue Aug 6 09:03:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? References: <20020801111425.O45883-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> <3D49A522.20908@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <001901c23d51$cdba9e40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Digital? How about analog, incl. an analog calculator? "Selectron slide rule wristwatch" http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=948218019 FYI John A. From RMeenaks at OLF.COM Tue Aug 6 09:08:01 2002 From: RMeenaks at OLF.COM (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Test please ignore Message-ID: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B558478027B4B3E@exchange.olf.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020806/c2380a26/attachment.html From allain at panix.com Tue Aug 6 09:30:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Outlook Text Setting [was: Differences between the...] References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467ADF@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <002b01c23d55$919b8c40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> FWIW I end up hitting Format > Plain Text and then Format > Encoding > (More >) Western European (ISO) in Outlook (Express) fairly frequently, for purposes of using clear text. Simple, Huh? (note: anti MS sarcasm) {IF that isn't enough, add a 'save draft', view draft, send step to ensure proper indenting. What have they done to WYSIWYG?} John A. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Aug 6 09:35:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Nigerian Scam References: <3D4F4D83.7A1D9E13@compsys.to> <00dd01c23d30$680863a0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <3D4FDDB6.2040205@jetnet.ab.ca> Sipke de Wal wrote: > Hey....... They've improved .......... > > I used to get these kinda mails in caps only. > They must have earned enough to scrap > the old teletype............. > They would have made more money selling it! :) From fernande at internet1.net Tue Aug 6 11:41:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: WTB: MicroVAX 3300 (or similar in a BA215 enclosure) References: Message-ID: <3D4FFBCD.9080601@internet1.net> Brian Chase wrote: > Does anyone know where I could find an working one of these? I'd be > willing to pay or trade for it. I've a complete NeXTstation (slab, > monitor, mouse, keyboard, and fresh NS 3.3 install) or I /may/ be able > to get some SGI gear, Indigo^2 variety, that I could part with. > > Thanks. > > -brian. Brian, I have a 3400 in a BA213 case, that I wouldn't mind trading/selling. Is the BA213 too big for you? It's the same size as the BA440, just in case I'm getting my numbers mixed up. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue Aug 6 11:50:00 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:32 2005 Subject: Non-Intel Laptops was Re: Blowing Up Old Computers References: <200208061246.IAA72046805@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <3D4FFDAB.4708341A@gifford.co.uk> Megan wrote: > >There's sure to be a 10 year old Mac laptop or two. I have a PowerBook Duo 280c, but no DuoDock for it. > >I think the Digital > >AlphaBook is more than 10 years old too - this being the only "old" > >laptop I'd pay real money for. > > I have one... at least at work... I've been using it recently to > do some testing. Linux runs on it just fine... Having just acquired a DECstation 5000 (MIPS) as well as a DEC 3000 (Alpha), I'd love to know more about the AlphaBook. Can't find much on the web apart from companies who are selling memory upgrades for it. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Aug 6 12:30:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Test please ignore Message-ID: D + At least there aren't MIME attachments, but it's still HTML! NOTE: the "

" and "
" are so that HTML compliant mail programs won't hide what he has written. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred On Tue, 6 Aug 2002, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: 





Test please ignore




This is a test .....






Blah, blah, blah







Ram






 2002 OpenLink Financial 




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of the 

recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no
responsibility 

is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss
or
damage in any 

way arising from its use.
From roosmcd at dds.nl Tue Aug 6 12:37:00 2002 From: roosmcd at dds.nl (roosmcd@dds.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Non-Intel Laptops In-Reply-To: <20020806170001.75618.53781.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20020806170001.75618.53781.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <1028655347.3d5008f367d19@webmail.dds.nl> > > >I think the Digital > > >AlphaBook is more than 10 years old too - this being the only "old" > > >laptop I'd pay real money for. > > > > I have one... at least at work... I've been using it recently to > > do some testing. Linux runs on it just fine... > > Having just acquired a DECstation 5000 (MIPS) as well as a DEC 3000 > (Alpha), I'd love to know more about the AlphaBook. Can't find much > on the web apart from companies who are selling memory upgrades for > it. I doubt that the alphabook is more than 10 years old. My thinkpad N40 is from 1994 and surely the alphabook is faster than 50MHz and thus younger? According to google it has a 233MHz 21066A and according to my memory it should have something like a 166MHz processor, but maybe there were different versions. There's also a HP-UX version, the Precisionbook, which is very similar to the Alphabook. A bit more collectible is this one, I forgot to bid :( http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2042227517&rd=1 Also look out for the RS/6000 thinkpads and the Silicon Graphics laptops (probably only sold to the military or something like that, I've never seen one for sale). Sparcbooks are just too common :). greetings, Michiel ps. For finding information on Alphabooks use www.archive.org on the tadpole and the rdi site. From mbg at TheWorld.com Tue Aug 6 12:43:01 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Non-Intel Laptops was Re: Blowing Up Old Computers References: <200208061246.IAA72046805@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <200208061742.NAA71399344@shell.TheWorld.com> >Having just acquired a DECstation 5000 (MIPS) as well as a DEC 3000 >(Alpha), I'd love to know more about the AlphaBook. Can't find much >on the web apart from companies who are selling memory upgrades for >it. The Alphabook1 was an Alpha (LCA45, I think) built into a laptop by Tadpole Technologies. It *can* run at up to 233MHz, but has heat disipation problems. It runs on internal batteries, but not for long. It has an external battery pack, but that makes it REALLY heavy. It has a mini-dock which allows external SCSI disks to attach. It also has a huge dock which, mechanically, opens up to accept the laptop, then closes on it... !!! I haven't tried that yet, it's scary... :-) Oh yeah, it has PCMCIA slots, but does not have an internal CD or floppy disk. The floppy is external and attaches via cable. The one I have doesn't display too well, I'm not sure if it is due to dead batteries (they no longer hold a charge) or something relating to the backlight for what seems to be an EL screen. It can run at varying speeds, under software control, in order to reduce heat (from 11Mhz up to 233MHz), but Linux doesn't seem to get it running beyond 117MHz. Maybe related to the screen display/battery problems, the one I have doesn't seem to want to spend much time above 29MHz... but I'm trying to get a clean install of Tru64 on it so I can try the commands which force it to run at a higher speed (I have a fan blowing on it :-) +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 6 13:10:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: <008f01c23ce9$304a08c0$65469280@y5f3q8> from "Robert Schaefer" at Aug 5, 2 09:32:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1324 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020806/84e6c641/attachment.ksh From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Aug 6 13:45:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Non-Intel Laptops References: <20020806170001.75618.53781.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <1028655347.3d5008f367d19@webmail.dds.nl> Message-ID: <00a801c23d79$3c5e10d0$2b000240@oemcomputer> Could not understand the language on the eBay page but I have two maybe three of these units. Of the two I remember one works great and the other will not power on. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 12:35 PM Subject: Re: Non-Intel Laptops > > > >I think the Digital > > > >AlphaBook is more than 10 years old too - this being the only "old" > > > >laptop I'd pay real money for. > > > > > > I have one... at least at work... I've been using it recently to > > > do some testing. Linux runs on it just fine... > > > > Having just acquired a DECstation 5000 (MIPS) as well as a DEC 3000 > > (Alpha), I'd love to know more about the AlphaBook. Can't find much > > on the web apart from companies who are selling memory upgrades for > > it. > > I doubt that the alphabook is more than 10 years old. My thinkpad N40 is from > 1994 and surely the alphabook is faster than 50MHz and thus younger? According > to google it has a 233MHz 21066A and according to my memory it should have > something like a 166MHz processor, but maybe there were different versions. > > There's also a HP-UX version, the Precisionbook, which is very similar to the > Alphabook. A bit more collectible is this one, I forgot to bid :( > > http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2042227517&rd=1 > > Also look out for the RS/6000 thinkpads and the Silicon Graphics laptops > (probably only sold to the military or something like that, I've never seen one > for sale). Sparcbooks are just too common :). > > greetings, > Michiel > > ps. For finding information on Alphabooks use www.archive.org on the tadpole > and the rdi site. > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 6 13:46:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20020806093348.A24917@borg.org> from "Kent Borg" at Aug 6, 2 09:33:48 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 7311 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020806/8b30a7d3/attachment.ksh From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Aug 6 13:51:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: [OT] Re: Outlook Text Setting [was: Differences between the...] In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467ADF@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467ADF@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <35225.64.169.63.74.1028659840.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Personally, I feel that if you use common sense, Outlook can be > _almost_ as safe as Pine. Not even close! Example: Outlook will run Javascript in the preview pane. The problem is that when MS designed Outlook, they gave not the slightest bit of concern to security. Since then they've patched some of the worst problems, but they haven't fixed the overall design. As far as I can tell, their recent claim to be focusing on security is just lip service. I try to get all my clients to switch to Mahogany, which is free software, or Eudora if they insist on using commercial software. http://mahogany.sourceforge.net/ From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Aug 6 13:57:00 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: [OT] Re: Outlook Text Setting [was: Differences between the.. .] Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467AE6@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> -----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith [mailto:eric@brouhaha.com] > Personally, I feel that if you use common sense, Outlook can be > _almost_ as safe as Pine. Not even close! Example: Outlook will run Javascript in the preview pane. The problem is that when MS designed Outlook, they gave not the slightest bit of concern to security. Since then they've patched some of the worst problems, but they haven't fixed the overall design. As far as I can tell, their recent claim to be focusing on security is just lip service. I try to get all my clients to switch to Mahogany, which is free software, or Eudora if they insist on using commercial software. http://mahogany.sourceforge.net/ Eric - You're kinda right, but missed one thing. I said "use common sense". That would include disabling the preview pane, as it is a known security issue. :) Alongside not opening unknown attachments, adjusting the security zone settings, disabling VB scripting (and all other scripting) etc... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Aug 6 13:59:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Nigerian Scam In-Reply-To: <00dd01c23d30$680863a0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Aug 2002, Victor Owode wrote: > Dear Sir, > I am Mr.victor owode. Bank Manager of Diamond Bank of > Nigeria, Lagos Branch. I have urgent and very > confidential business proposition for you. On June 6, > 1997, [Snip - not much point to have the rest] Dear Mr. Owode, It was with great joy that we received your letter. We have been anxiously looking for an opportunity like yours. We recently embezzled 1.3 billion dollars from the mafia and Enron. Now we have no way to get that money out of the country, because both the IRS and organized crime are looking for us. Please send $380,472.00 in cash for us to use as bribes to high government officials, so that we can get our money out of the country. Once we do, then we will be able to participate in your program. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Aug 6 14:00:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Nigerian Scam In-Reply-To: <3D4FDDB6.2040205@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > I used to get these kinda mails in caps only. > They must have earned enough to scrap > the old teletype............. now THAT will get action from the folk on this list! From celt at chisp.net Tue Aug 6 14:08:00 2002 From: celt at chisp.net (Mike Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers References: Message-ID: <3D501DF6.3020205@chisp.net> Tony Duell wrote: >>Ob Classiccmp: How many non-wintel laptops are on-topic? My SPARCbook2 > > Was the first Mac Laptop released before 1992 (which would make it > on-topic here)? > > -tony > The Macintosh Portable was released in September 89 and discontinued in Feb 91. I had a non-working one (broken screen) until February. Now its a mess of melted plastic. Mike From celt at chisp.net Tue Aug 6 14:10:01 2002 From: celt at chisp.net (Mike Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: [OT] Re: Outlook Text Setting [was: Differences between the...] References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467ADF@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> <35225.64.169.63.74.1028659840.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3D501EC4.5040604@chisp.net> Eric Smith wrote: > > > Not even close! Example: Outlook will run Javascript in the preview pane. > The problem is that when MS designed Outlook, they gave not the slightest > bit of concern to security. Since then they've patched some of the worst > problems, but they haven't fixed the overall design. As far as I can tell, > their recent claim to be focusing on security is just lip service. > Hence the Outlook moniker MSRVTIP - Microsoft Rapid Virus Transmission/Infection Protocol. Mike From allain at panix.com Tue Aug 6 14:15:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Nice Article on Fran Allen (compiler optimazation pioneer) Today. References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467AE6@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <000a01c23d7d$4d4885c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> In New York times. http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/06/science/physical/06PROF.html "Would-Be Math Teacher Ended Up Educating a Computer Revolution" We gotta realize who to recognize now that the Postel's and Hopper's are gone. Is there a Hall of fame in the museum out there in Sunnyvale? John A. From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Aug 6 14:27:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: (semi)[OT] Re: Outlook Text Setting In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467AE6@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: As a Pine-under-Unix-shell user, for all of my written e-mail - I think that the biggest obstacle to sanitizing and securing OutHouse Mail (and it's typically Micro$hit cult design) is trying to find a way to translate "common-sense" into "Sheeple". Kinda like preventing the flood tide with a pushbroom. Just too many Sheep Users, so the kiddie-level exploits will continue unabated. That being said: a sister list (greenkeys, for mechanical Teletype fans) that has several of us classiccmpers subscribed as well - has a little routine running called "Strip Mime" that quite effectively extracts and displays the text from the RTF, HTML, etc and then prints a snide little message to that effect as a footer. Would such a facility be possible here? I think we all use 'mailman' , so I was just wondering - it might reduce the bandwidth and the resultant chiding. And yes, I've bitched about non-text posts to mailing lists myself enough times... ObClassiccmp: Looks like I have successfully rescued a pair of PDP 11/44s plus minimal perpherals, disks, and doc from a company in SoCal - just waiting the final word of when to launch the Recovery Team. One has an RL02, bu the other is reported to have a SCSI adapter and some kind of +1G HD attached - woo hoo! More when they are safe and warm in my garage... Cheerz John From celt at chisp.net Tue Aug 6 14:28:01 2002 From: celt at chisp.net (Mike Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Cruftiness rating References: <1028216090.3550.6.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> Message-ID: <3D502331.9080905@chisp.net> Alex White wrote: > I saw this link on Slashdot on Monday, thought it was pretty funny. It's > a measure of how much cruft a Windows PC accumulates throughout its > lifetime. Funny to laugh at, but not on topic, you say. Well, The > Register is carrying the story and a plea of help from its author: > > "However we would like your input. A community effort is required to > produce MacOS, POSIX-compliant versions, and touch wood, versions for > PalmOS, phones and *even VAXes too*." Input? > > Original link: http://www.ddj.com/documents/s=7453/ddj0208q/0208q.htm > El Reg: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/26475.html > > alex I'd imagine quite a bit. Windows itself litters the hard drive with orphaned .dlls, device drivers, outlook express, internet explorer and other cruft, even through mininmal use. These, plus corrupt / unnecessary registry keys, and god-knows-what else installed by lazily-written, bloated third party apps probably account for 90% of Windows' stability problems and most likely are the primary reason M$ itself recommends a fresh Windows re-install on a regular basis. Mike From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 6 14:53:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Aug 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > Ob Classiccmp: How many non-wintel laptops are on-topic? My SPARCbook2 > > fits the bill I believe, are there any others? Not even clones or > > nearly-clones, but honest-to-goodness Alternative Architectures? > > Tandy M100, M102, M200. Olivetti M10. And whatever the Kyocera version > was called. (OK, they contain an 8085 CPU, which was originally an Intel > design, but I don't think that's the normal meaning of 'Wintel') > > Epson HX20, PX4, PX8, etc. The first contains a pair of 6301-type CPUs > IIRC (I don't feel like running upstairs to check the technical manual). > The latter 2 machines ran CP/M and presumably had a Z80-like CPU. > > HP110 (Portable), Portable +. More arguable. They contain an 80C86 > processor and run MS-DOS. But they are in no sense PC clones. No part of > the I/O structure is even close to that in a PC. The BIOS is not > compatible with the PC BIOS either as far as I am aware. I wouldn't call > them clones. > > HP75. It's arguable if this is a laptop, or a notebook, or what. It's a > large pocket computer, running BASIC. 1 line LCD display. The processor > is an HP Capricorn, so it's certainly not Wintel. I think it's fair to > say that the HP71B is not a laptop (for all it's a very nice pocket > computer). > > Was the first Mac Laptop released before 1992 (which would make it > on-topic here)? 1989 if my factoidal memory cells are functioning properly. Also add to the list: Teleram 3000 circa 1983 (Z80, bubble-memory) Convergent Technologies WorkSlate circa 1983 (Hitachi 6303 (6800)) (Can't think of any others right now but I'm sure there are many) And because they will fit on your lap, all the Sharp/Radio Shack handhelds, and the Panasonic HHC. P.S. The Kyocera version of the RS M100 was called simply the "Kyocera 85". Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Aug 6 14:58:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: [OT] Re: Outhouse Text Setting In-Reply-To: <3D501EC4.5040604@chisp.net> Message-ID: "Common Sense"?!? That would imply that anyone, even without current expertise, should be able to figure out how to use it safely. It IS possible to use Outhouse (aka MICROSOFT Virus Transfer Protocol) with reasonable safety. But what it requires is not "common sense", but a reasonable understanding of the problems involved, and of the design failings of MICROS~1 products. Somebody that I know who is computer clueless, thought that the "Preview Pane" was a Microsoft SECURITY feature! She assumed that it was like a door peephole, and provided a way to SAFELY see what was in an attachment in isolation! I removed 30 copies of Klez from her machine. Was that a lack of "common sense"? NO. It was an assumption that MICROS~1 had "reasonable" security designed into their products. You would have to know something about MICROS~1 for that to be a lack of "common sense". -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From mythtech at mac.com Tue Aug 6 15:17:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers Message-ID: >> Was the first Mac Laptop released before 1992 (which would make it >> on-topic here)? > >1989 if my factoidal memory cells are functioning properly. Correct, 1989, discontinued in 1991, so it was actually no longer available before the classic cutoff. And along with it, there are of course the line of Outback Mac "clone" laptops that predated the Apple Mac Portable. They were Mac clone units, but lacked the needed ROM chip. It was designed for you to take the ROM from a Mac Plus, put it into the Outback, and then it had a special cable/connector that allowed it to dock to the Plus so you could share the ROM between the two. I've always wanted one of those laptops... someday I'll track one down (ideally I either want it fresh with cables, so I have to install the rom from a Plus, or I want it with its slave Plus and cables). -chris From allain at panix.com Tue Aug 6 15:21:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Nice Article on Fran Allen (compiler optimazation pioneer) Today. References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467AE6@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> <000a01c23d7d$4d4885c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <002701c23d86$801a1460$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> optimization. blame my glasses, not MS for this one. jea From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Aug 6 15:29:00 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: [OT] Re: Outhouse Text Setting Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467AE7@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] > > "Common Sense"?!? > That would imply that anyone, even without current expertise, > should be able to figure out how to use it safely. Okay, true, I stand corrected. > It IS possible to use Outhouse (aka MICROSOFT Virus Transfer Protocol) > with reasonable safety. But what it requires is not "common > sense", but a > reasonable understanding of the problems involved, and of the design > failings of MICROS~1 products. That's my basic point. A basic understanding of the issues, and options, with Outlook (incl. Express) can secure it some. That, and a good firewall & virus scanner... > Somebody that I know who is computer clueless, thought that > the "Preview > Pane" was a Microsoft SECURITY feature! She assumed that it > was like a > door peephole, and provided a way to SAFELY see what was in > an attachment > in isolation! I removed 30 copies of Klez from her machine. > > Was that a lack of "common sense"? NO. It was an assumption > that MICROS~1 > had "reasonable" security designed into their products. You > would have to > know something about MICROS~1 for that to be a lack of "common sense". Well, I think the common sense part would apply (pretty much) to the "not taking candy from strangers" idea. But with the latest crop of virii (exploiting MS security holes), you don't even need to open an attachment anymore to get whacked. Or is it healthy suspicion of unsolicited e-mail? :) -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From dtwright at uiuc.edu Tue Aug 6 15:42:00 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Test please ignore In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020806204118.GB1237822@uiuc.edu> Well, that may be the idea, but it's still sent as "text/html" (but singlepart rather then multipart), so properly MIME-complient mail readers (like mutt here) will still say "ooo look, HTML, what should I do with it?" rather then displaying it. Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) said: > > D + > At least there aren't MIME attachments, but it's still HTML! > > NOTE: the "
" and "
" are so that HTML compliant mail programs > won't hide what he has written. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred > > On Tue, 6 Aug 2002, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Test please ignore
> 
> 
> 
> 
This is a test .....
> 

> 

> 
> 
Blah, blah, blah
> 

> 

> 

> 
Ram
> 

> 

> 
> 
 2002 OpenLink Financial 
> 

> 
> 
Copyright in this message and any attachments remains
> with
> us.  It is
> 
confidential and may be legally
> privileged.   If
> this message is not 
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intended for you it must not be read, copied or used
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disclosed to anyone else.   Please advise
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> sender immediately if 
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you have received this message in error.  
> 

> 
> 
Although this message and any attachments are believed
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> 
any virus or other defect that might affect any
> computer
> system into 
> 
which it is received and opened, it is the
> responsibility
> of the 
> 
recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no
> responsibility 
> 
is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss
> or
> damage in any 
> 
way arising from its use.
> 

> 

> 
> 
> 
> 
>
> - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From mythtech at mac.com Tue Aug 6 15:51:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers Message-ID: > the line of Outback Mac "clone" laptops Sorry, OutBOUND, not OutBACK (I guess I had Subaru cars on my mind) -chris From univac2 at earthlink.net Tue Aug 6 16:08:00 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 8/6/02 3:16 PM, chris at mythtech@mac.com wrote: > And along with it, there are of course the line of Outback Mac "clone" > laptops that predated the Apple Mac Portable. They were Mac clone units, > but lacked the needed ROM chip. It was designed for you to take the ROM > from a Mac Plus, put it into the Outback, and then it had a special > cable/connector that allowed it to dock to the Plus so you could share > the ROM between the two. Funny you should mention it. I came across mine yesterday. It came in a box of PC junk a friend gave me a few years back. The only problem is that I don't have a keyboard for it. Does anyone happen to have one? -- Owen Robertson From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Aug 6 16:16:01 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: OT: Parity memory swap... Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467AE8@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ---Please reply directly to me--- Apologies for being off-topic, but considering the number of machines here that use 72-pin parity memory, hopefully someone can help me out. Thank you much for your patience :) I have 2 16x36 (64MB each) Parity 72 pin SIMMs... The sticker on them says... 02/27/97 1538 202639 16Mx36-6SIMST Void If Removed ...they are 1 3/16" high, 36 chips on each. I'm looking to trade these for a set of either 4 8x36 (32MB ea) or 8 4x36 (16MB ea) SIMMs. Of course, as usual, if it's cheap enough, I'll buy some too. Either way, none of my machines really like the 64MB SIMMs, so I at least want to trade those out. My Prioris HX MP/2 5150 (dual P-150s!) when I upgrade it to 4 CPUs, will use 128 bit interleaved memory, but I need to add 8 SIMMs at a time... BTW, I was just thinking... I have 608MB worth of Parity memory, in pairings... 2 - 64 - 16x36 6 - 32 - 8x36 12 - 16 - 4x36 12 - 8 - 2x36 Probably could trade these for full sets of either 8x36 or 4x36 SIMMs also. 512MB would be either 16 32MB SIMMs, or 32 16MB SIMMs. And no, I'm not looking to sell any. I have more machines (AXPpci33, Multia(s), PC64, SparcStation LX) that will use the rest of the RAM chips :) -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From dan at ekoan.com Tue Aug 6 16:25:00 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Macintosh Portable, was Re: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: <3D501DF6.3020205@chisp.net> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020806172137.04950720@enigma> At 01:05 PM 8/6/02 -0600, you wrote: >The Macintosh Portable was released in September 89 and discontinued in >Feb 91. I had a non-working one (broken screen) until February. Now its >a mess of melted plastic. I've got a Macintosh Portable sitting here, but I need a power supply and (I'm told) a new battery for it. Any sources or recommendations? Cheers, Dan From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Aug 6 17:05:01 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: VMS question Message-ID: <02080615040400.03350@sputnik> VMS has a distinctive that when you open a file for write or append, a copy of that file is made with a higher "Version" number. What happens then if you have a "log" type file, the OS (or some application) open it from time to time to add info. Mass copies of this file? From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Aug 6 17:11:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Slide Rule was: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <001901c23d51$cdba9e40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3D500356.27681.2E4B836@localhost> That baffled me for a minute until looking at it. I had forgotten that slide rules could be circular. Sure beats for size the large German-made one inherited from my engineer brother that I carted around in the early 50's at University. It was too big to fit properly in my zipper binder. I eventually bought a cheaper one that was only 10-12" long. I was aghast when much later my son was allowed to bring an electronic calculator with him into exams. IIRC slide rules were strictly verbotten in my time. Lawrence > Digital? > How about analog, incl. an analog calculator? > "Selectron slide rule wristwatch" > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=948218019 > FYI > > John A. > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Aug 6 17:12:06 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: References: <008f01c23ce9$304a08c0$65469280@y5f3q8> from "Robert Schaefer" at Aug 5, 2 09:32:53 pm Message-ID: <3D500356.12980.2E4B7EF@localhost> And let's not forget the Atari Portfolio which came out, I believe, in 89. Lawrence > > Ob Classiccmp: How many non-wintel laptops are on-topic? My SPARCbook2 > > fits the bill I believe, are there any others? Not even clones or > > nearly-clones, but honest-to-goodness Alternative Architectures? > > Tandy M100, M102, M200. Olivetti M10. And whatever the Kyocera version > was called. (OK, they contain an 8085 CPU, which was originally an Intel > design, but I don't think that's the normal meaning of 'Wintel') > > Epson HX20, PX4, PX8, etc. The first contains a pair of 6301-type CPUs > IIRC (I don't feel like running upstairs to check the technical manual). > The latter 2 machines ran CP/M and presumably had a Z80-like CPU. > > HP110 (Portable), Portable +. More arguable. They contain an 80C86 > processor and run MS-DOS. But they are in no sense PC clones. No part of > the I/O structure is even close to that in a PC. The BIOS is not > compatible with the PC BIOS either as far as I am aware. I wouldn't call > them clones. > > HP75. It's arguable if this is a laptop, or a notebook, or what. It's a > large pocket computer, running BASIC. 1 line LCD display. The processor > is an HP Capricorn, so it's certainly not Wintel. I think it's fair to > say that the HP71B is not a laptop (for all it's a very nice pocket > computer). > > Was the first Mac Laptop released before 1992 (which would make it > on-topic here)? > > -tony lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Aug 6 17:12:15 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: <20020805100704.A17669@borg.org> Message-ID: <3D500356.20091.2E4B86D@localhost> AAARGH !! Now that is cruel and unusual punishment to inflict upon those of us in distant locations. Almost makes me want to leave my pristine northern paradise for the collecting abundance of the east coast corridor. Couldn't deal with the crime and overcrowding anymore tho, I imagine. Lawrence > > I have a big analogue clock that says "Western Union", "U.S. Naval > > Observatory Time", "Self Winding Clock Company, New York". > > Well then...I guess I have about 80 of these things. One of the many > goodies from the warehouse... > > Two 35s left today, two remain. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Aug 6 17:30:01 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (classiccmp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: VMS question In-Reply-To: <02080615040400.03350@sputnik> Message-ID: <030801c23d98$922d97a0$90f8b8ce@impac.com> VMS does keep versions of log files, but you can set the OS up to only keep a specified number of versions on a file by file basis or more globally. You can also manually purge older versions of a file or a set of files keeping a specified number of versions. Erik -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ron Hudson Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 3:04 PM To: Classic Computers Subject: VMS question VMS has a distinctive that when you open a file for write or append, a copy of that file is made with a higher "Version" number. What happens then if you have a "log" type file, the OS (or some application) open it from time to time to add info. Mass copies of this file? From celt at chisp.net Tue Aug 6 17:49:00 2002 From: celt at chisp.net (Mike Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Macintosh Portable, was Re: Blowing Up Old Computers References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020806172137.04950720@enigma> Message-ID: <3D505227.2070508@chisp.net> Dan Veeneman wrote: > At 01:05 PM 8/6/02 -0600, you wrote: > >> The Macintosh Portable was released in September 89 and discontinued >> in Feb 91. I had a non-working one (broken screen) until February. >> Now its a mess of melted plastic. > > > I've got a Macintosh Portable sitting here, but I need a power supply > and (I'm told) > a new battery for it. Any sources or recommendations? > > > Cheers, > > Dan > There's an article at http://www.orcawerks.com/sgi/misc/macportable/ on connecting up a 9V 1A battery. Note that the Portable uses Pb batteries as opposed to Li-on. Careful though - a faulty battery was the cause of the meltdown (literally) I experienced. As far as wall-wart power supplies, I'm fairly certain there are still refurb outfits that sell these (and other Mac portable parts). You might start your search at the Low End Mac site (couple of battery pages here as well). http://www.lowendmac.com/pb/portable.shtml Mike From dittman at dittman.net Tue Aug 6 17:56:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: VMS question In-Reply-To: <02080615040400.03350@sputnik> from "Ron Hudson" at Aug 06, 2002 03:04:04 PM Message-ID: <200208062253.g76Mr6603491@narnia.int.dittman.net> > VMS has a distinctive that when you open a file for write or append, a copy > of that file is made with a higher "Version" number. > > What happens then if you have a "log" type file, the OS (or some application) > open it from time to time to add info. > > Mass copies of this file? You can open, update, and close an existing file without creating a new version, if that's what you want. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 6 19:16:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: <3D500356.12980.2E4B7EF@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Aug 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > And let's not forget the Atari Portfolio which came out, I believe, in 89. We were trying to avoid mentioning Wintel machines ;/ Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Aug 6 19:32:01 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > And let's not forget the Atari Portfolio which came out, I believe, in 89. > >We were trying to avoid mentioning Wintel machines ;/ I don't think I'd call the Portfolio a Wintel machine, though it does run a variant/clone of MS-DOS and uses an Intel CPU. It's still pretty cool. Jeff From dogas at bellsouth.net Tue Aug 6 19:43:00 2002 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers( early laptops) References: Message-ID: <001b01c23daa$71cead20$0d62d6d1@DOMAIN> I just had to nominate the Intersil Intercept Jr. to the early laptop catagory, Runs on batteries, fits in a lap. ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net > On Tue, 6 Aug 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > And let's not forget the Atari Portfolio which came out, I believe, in 89. > > We were trying to avoid mentioning Wintel machines ;/ > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > From jrasite at eoni.com Tue Aug 6 21:59:00 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Macintosh Portable, was Re: Blowing Up Old Computers References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020806172137.04950720@enigma> <3D505227.2070508@chisp.net> Message-ID: <3D508CBF.4070004@eoni.com> Dan, P-mail me... I can probably help you out. Jim Mike Maginnis wrote: > Dan Veeneman wrote: > >> At 01:05 PM 8/6/02 -0600, you wrote: >> >>> The Macintosh Portable was released in September 89 and discontinued >>> in Feb 91. I had a non-working one (broken screen) until February. >>> Now its a mess of melted plastic. >> >> >> >> I've got a Macintosh Portable sitting here, but I need a power supply >> and (I'm told) >> a new battery for it. Any sources or recommendations? >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Dan >> > > There's an article at > > http://www.orcawerks.com/sgi/misc/macportable/ > > on connecting up a 9V 1A battery. Note that the Portable uses Pb > batteries as opposed to Li-on. > > Careful though - a faulty battery was the cause of the meltdown > (literally) I experienced. > > As far as wall-wart power supplies, I'm fairly certain there are still > refurb outfits that sell these (and other Mac portable parts). You > might start your search at the Low End Mac site (couple of battery pages > here as well). > > http://www.lowendmac.com/pb/portable.shtml > > Mike > > > . > From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 6 22:26:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Aug 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > And let's not forget the Atari Portfolio which came out, I believe, in 89. > > > >We were trying to avoid mentioning Wintel machines ;/ > > I don't think I'd call the Portfolio a Wintel machine, though > it does run a variant/clone of MS-DOS and uses an Intel CPU. It's > still pretty cool. Me niether but the fact is it has an 8086 (or compatible) and runs DOS ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 6 22:27:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers( early laptops) In-Reply-To: <001b01c23daa$71cead20$0d62d6d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Aug 2002, Mike wrote: > I just had to nominate the Intersil Intercept Jr. to the early laptop > catagory, Runs on batteries, fits in a lap. True dat. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 6 22:32:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model III Message-ID: I am trying to get a TRS-80 Model III working. When I turn it on the disk drive spins for a while looking for a disk I presume. All I get on the screen are wispish diagonal lines as if the horizontal hold is all whacked. I managed to unstick one of the video adjustment knobs on the left underside but all it does is affect the brightness level. The other one requires a screwdriver to move at all (shimmying it up and down) and does not seem to affect the display. I haven't opened it yet to see what adjustments are inside. I'd rather not, but there don't seem to be any adjustment pots accessible from outside the case. What's weird is that I have access to a bunch of TRS-80 Model 3's here at the ACCRC and pretty much all of the ones I have played with so far are basically "dead" in this manner. The one I'm working on just came in today and is in the same state. Also, the video knobs on the left underside are all stuck on everyone I've tried to get working. What is the deal with that? Do they get rusted over time or something? Very annoying. The fact that the disk drive spins up when I turn it on is a good sign I hope. Any help on this would be appreciated. I know next to zero about the TRS-80 series. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From marald at wanadoo.nl Tue Aug 6 22:50:00 2002 From: marald at wanadoo.nl (marald) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Intergraph interserve 2000 for free Message-ID: <000301c23d2d$4a229c00$0101a8c0@mix> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 145 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020806/3ce4dcb4/attachment.gif From vcf at siconic.com Tue Aug 6 22:50:14 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Complete HP 150 available in Ft. Pierce, Florida Message-ID: There is a complete HP 150 with software and documentation available in the Ft. Pierce, Florida, area. Shipping costs only. Might involve beauracratic red tape. If interested, please contact me directly. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From aek at spies.com Tue Aug 6 22:50:25 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: What about DOS-11? (was: Does anybody care about XXDP?) Message-ID: <200208062008.g76K8pGh031337@spies.com> > I haven't heard much talk about DOS-11 or DOS/BATCH (same thing?) At one point there were two separate products that were combined to create DOS/BATCH. It was sold until the late 70's but deemphasized in favor of RT-11. I have a bunch of DECtapes of this material queued up to be read in the next few months. The one document that I'm missing was the companion to the DOS/BATCH handbook that was the sys admin guide which describes the system generation process. A copy of a DOS/BATCH distribution tape that John Wilson and I read has been forwarded to Bob Supnik. Hopefully there's still someone left who would be willing to give permission for its release similar to that given for the version of RT that he has. From dogbert at mindless.com Tue Aug 6 22:50:35 2002 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: [Fwd: [6502ag] Re: Using a 8255] References: <3D506544.D4FA0764@topnow.com> Message-ID: <3D507C49.8020605@mindless.com> Ross Archer wrote: >r65c02p2 wrote: > > >>--- In 6502ag@y..., "rey_bbs" wrote: >> >> >>>Is there a way to use 8255 in a 6502 computer instead of a 6522? >>> >>> >>Howdy Guys, >> >>I've read the list discussion regarding 8255's and the 6502 and >>thought I'd pipe up. I use 8255's with 6502 whenever I need lots >>of I/O bits per package count. Interface is rather simple. I also use >>NEC part Nr. D71055C which is a 8255 pin/program compatible CMOS >>component that will work to 10 MHz. Also using 82C55 for battery >>powered systems. All work quite reliably. >> >>The /RD and /WR signals for the 8255 I generate this way: >> >>/RD is 6502 R/W NAND Phi2 >>/WR is 6502 INVERTED-R/W NAND Phi2 >> >>Easily accomplished with single quad NAND...I generally use these >>same strobes for memory access and other buss connected device access. >> >> Regards All, >> Brian >> Hi, and thanks for that. The cool thing is you've just generated Z80-compatible strobes. Don't forget to use that last NAND gate left in your 7400 to invert the reset signal from 6502 pin 40 into 8255 pin 35. If not inverted, the 6502 RESET will hold the 8255 in reset indefinitely, and if omitted, may not come up 100%. Correct? -- Ross >> >> >>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >>6502ag-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> >> >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >> >> > > > > From curt at atarimuseum.com Tue Aug 6 22:50:46 2002 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model III References: Message-ID: <002001c23dc4$92b0cd60$01000001@cvendel> Sellam, Are the boot straps on eproms on the motherboards??? You may be facing possible bitrot, that's one possibility. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 3:31 PM Subject: TRS-80 Model III > > I am trying to get a TRS-80 Model III working. When I turn it on the disk > drive spins for a while looking for a disk I presume. All I get on the > screen are wispish diagonal lines as if the horizontal hold is all > whacked. > > I managed to unstick one of the video adjustment knobs on the left > underside but all it does is affect the brightness level. The other one > requires a screwdriver to move at all (shimmying it up and down) and does > not seem to affect the display. I haven't opened it yet to see what > adjustments are inside. I'd rather not, but there don't seem to be any > adjustment pots accessible from outside the case. > > What's weird is that I have access to a bunch of TRS-80 Model 3's here at > the ACCRC and pretty much all of the ones I have played with so far are > basically "dead" in this manner. The one I'm working on just came in > today and is in the same state. Also, the video knobs on the left > underside are all stuck on everyone I've tried to get working. What is > the deal with that? Do they get rusted over time or something? Very > annoying. > > The fact that the disk drive spins up when I turn it on is a good sign I > hope. > > Any help on this would be appreciated. I know next to zero about the > TRS-80 series. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > From msspcva at yahoo.com Tue Aug 6 23:25:00 2002 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model III In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020807042452.10723.qmail@web14605.mail.yahoo.com> Sellam: I *think* that what you're seeing with the disk drives is standard normal behavior. If there's a bootable disk in the drive it'll load the DOS, if there's a data disk there it may put out a message complaining about it, but no disk may do nothing at all. Normally under these circumstances you'd put the disk in the drive and press the RESET button (not power cycle), tho you could certainly cycle power too. It's been a long time since I used a Model III. My Model 4 will I think do what you describe (it's buried at the moment or I'd check it now). Also, last I used it my Model 4's brightness/contrast controls are still working, but they may be different from the Model III's hardware. -- Frank --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > > I am trying to get a TRS-80 Model III working. When > I turn it on the disk > drive spins for a while looking for a disk I > presume. All I get on the > screen are wispish diagonal lines as if the > horizontal hold is all > whacked. > > I managed to unstick one of the video adjustment > knobs on the left > underside but all it does is affect the brightness > level. The other one > requires a screwdriver to move at all (shimmying it > up and down) and does > not seem to affect the display. I haven't opened it > yet to see what > adjustments are inside. I'd rather not, but there > don't seem to be any > adjustment pots accessible from outside the case. > > What's weird is that I have access to a bunch of > TRS-80 Model 3's here at > the ACCRC and pretty much all of the ones I have > played with so far are > basically "dead" in this manner. The one I'm > working on just came in > today and is in the same state. Also, the video > knobs on the left > underside are all stuck on everyone I've tried to > get working. What is > the deal with that? Do they get rusted over time or > something? Very > annoying. > > The fact that the disk drive spins up when I turn it > on is a good sign I > hope. > > Any help on this would be appreciated. I know next > to zero about the > TRS-80 series. > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia > at www.VintageTech.com * > ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com From donm at cts.com Wed Aug 7 00:30:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:33 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers( early laptops) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Aug 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 6 Aug 2002, Mike wrote: > > > I just had to nominate the Intersil Intercept Jr. to the early laptop > > catagory, Runs on batteries, fits in a lap. > > True dat. Then there is my Visual Technologies "Commuter". Not a laptop unless your lap is made of iron and you carry 120VAC with you. Must weigh 30#! and is about 18 x 16 x 3.5". Has a flip up 20 x 80 LCD screen. - don > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Aug 7 00:36:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Aug 6, 2 07:01:04 pm" Message-ID: <200208070544.WAA10100@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Ob Classiccmp: How many non-wintel laptops are on-topic? My SPARCbook2 > > fits the bill I believe, are there any others? Not even clones or > Tandy M100, M102, M200. Olivetti M10. And whatever the Kyocera version > was called. (OK, they contain an 8085 CPU, which was originally an Intel > design, but I don't think that's the normal meaning of 'Wintel') Don't forget the NEC 8201A and likemindeds :-) And, of course, the Commodore SX-64 qualifies as on-topic, though perhaps not as a laptop (unless you're morbidly obese). > HP75. It's arguable if this is a laptop, or a notebook, or what. It's a > large pocket computer, running BASIC. 1 line LCD display. The processor > is an HP Capricorn, so it's certainly not Wintel. I think it's fair to > say that the HP71B is not a laptop (for all it's a very nice pocket > computer). Fine then, I submit the Sharp/Casio "Tandy Pocket Computer" series, the Quasar and Panasonic HHCs, and the Texas Instruments CC40 as well :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- TRUE HEADLINE: Prostitutes Appeal to Pope ---------------------------------- From dittman at dittman.net Wed Aug 7 00:43:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: from "Cameron Kaiser" at Aug 06, 2002 10:44:16 PM Message-ID: <200208070540.g775e6s04921@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Tandy M100, M102, M200. Olivetti M10. And whatever the Kyocera version > was called. (OK, they contain an 8085 CPU, which was originally an Intel > design, but I don't think that's the normal meaning of 'Wintel') These are Wintel, but they are MStel. The ROM was written by Microsoft. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Wed Aug 7 00:47:00 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: VMS question In-Reply-To: <02080615040400.03350@sputnik> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020807154509.02426d18@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 03:04 PM 6/08/2002 -0700, Ron Hudson wrote: >VMS has a distinctive that when you open a file for write or append, a copy >of that file is made with a higher "Version" number. > >What happens then if you have a "log" type file, the OS (or some application) >open it from time to time to add info. > >Mass copies of this file? You can open a file to append, in which case the version number isn't changed. Of course, typical VMS applications open the log file and never close it and assuming you code it correctly, other applications can read the log file. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From dittman at dittman.net Wed Aug 7 00:53:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: from "Eric Dittman" at Aug 07, 2002 12:40:06 AM Message-ID: <200208070550.g775oXM05004@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > Tandy M100, M102, M200. Olivetti M10. And whatever the Kyocera version > > was called. (OK, they contain an 8085 CPU, which was originally an Intel > > design, but I don't think that's the normal meaning of 'Wintel') > > These are Wintel, but they are MStel. The ROM was written by > Microsoft. I meant "These aren't Wintel..." -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Aug 7 03:15:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers References: Message-ID: <001b01c23dea$35197e60$0100000a@deepspacenine> > > > And let's not forget the Atari Portfolio which came out, I believe, in 89. > > > >We were trying to avoid mentioning Wintel machines ;/ > > I don't think I'd call the Portfolio a Wintel machine, though > it does run a variant/clone of MS-DOS and uses an Intel CPU. It's > still pretty cool. And I want one, if only for the coolness factor :-) Anyone got a spare Atari Portfolio they fancy selling/trading? Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Aug 7 03:20:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: VMS question In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020807154509.02426d18@kerberos.davies.net.au> References: <02080615040400.03350@sputnik> Message-ID: >You can open a file to append, in which case the version number isn't >changed. Of course, typical VMS applications open the log file and never >close it and assuming you code it correctly, other applications can read >the log file. Unfortuantly at least version 1.9 of Samba (yeah, I know it's ancient, but it works for me) has the bad habit of creating a LOT of log files. I finally ended up creating a batch job to clean up after it. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Wed Aug 7 04:20:05 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: VMS question References: <200208062253.g76Mr6603491@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3D50E61A.80F93EAE@Vishay.com> In fact, opening a file in "append" mode will not create a new version, but add information to the *end* of the existing file without moving existing data around, as with any other operating system. This would be the right way to update a .LOG file. Opening a file for "write" access will also use the existing file, but will leave you positioned at the *start* of the file. For sequential files (as opposed to index-sequential), this will result in the existing file getting truncated to zero length, and contents replaced with what the program writes from the beginning. If you "create" a file, however, the old version will stay in place, and a new file (with the next higher version number) will be started. That's what most standard utilities do to output their results, e.g., that's what a VMS editor will do when you EXIT. Andreas Eric Dittman wrote: > > > VMS has a distinctive that when you open a file for write or append, a copy > > of that file is made with a higher "Version" number. > > > > What happens then if you have a "log" type file, the OS (or some application) > > open it from time to time to add info. > > > > Mass copies of this file? > > You can open, update, and close an existing file without > creating a new version, if that's what you want. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From cbajpai at attbi.com Wed Aug 7 06:16:00 2002 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model III In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601c23e03$8c506c20$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> What happens if you press the key down while powering up...it should take you into ROM Basic with a "cass?" prompt. I grew up with a Model III and it's been a while, but I don't remember there being an error message if it doesn't find disk in the drive. Matter of fact I don't remember any text error messages from the boot loader. If you can get into ROM Basic, it probably means you have a bad boot disk. -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 3:32 PM To: Classic Computers Mailing List Subject: TRS-80 Model III I am trying to get a TRS-80 Model III working. When I turn it on the disk drive spins for a while looking for a disk I presume. All I get on the screen are wispish diagonal lines as if the horizontal hold is all whacked. I managed to unstick one of the video adjustment knobs on the left underside but all it does is affect the brightness level. The other one requires a screwdriver to move at all (shimmying it up and down) and does not seem to affect the display. I haven't opened it yet to see what adjustments are inside. I'd rather not, but there don't seem to be any adjustment pots accessible from outside the case. What's weird is that I have access to a bunch of TRS-80 Model 3's here at the ACCRC and pretty much all of the ones I have played with so far are basically "dead" in this manner. The one I'm working on just came in today and is in the same state. Also, the video knobs on the left underside are all stuck on everyone I've tried to get working. What is the deal with that? Do they get rusted over time or something? Very annoying. The fact that the disk drive spins up when I turn it on is a good sign I hope. Any help on this would be appreciated. I know next to zero about the TRS-80 series. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From sipke at wxs.nl Wed Aug 7 06:25:00 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Intergraph interserve 2000 for free References: <000301c23d2d$4a229c00$0101a8c0@mix> Message-ID: <015301c23e04$eac70ce0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 145 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020807/9a413128/attachment.gif From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Wed Aug 7 07:21:01 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: VMS question In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020807154509.02426d18@kerberos.davies.net.au> <02080615040400.03350@sputnik> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020807221736.02426d18@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 01:18 AM 7/08/2002 -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >You can open a file to append, in which case the version number isn't > >changed. Of course, typical VMS applications open the log file and never > >close it and assuming you code it correctly, other applications can read > >the log file. > >Unfortuantly at least version 1.9 of Samba (yeah, I know it's ancient, but >it works for me) has the bad habit of creating a LOT of log files. I >finally ended up creating a batch job to clean up after it. Without appearing to have a go at the Samba team (they do a great job and I use Samba every day), it's a typical problem when Unix software is "ported" to VMS. Basically all that happens is enough changes are made to make something work without making it VMS friendly. Hopefully with some of the work that is currently going on in HP to make VMS have the same API as Solaris will make more applications available and also work more like their Unix counterparts. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From jbmcb at hotmail.com Wed Aug 7 07:58:00 2002 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: U of M Property Depot Stuff... References: <000301c23d2d$4a229c00$0101a8c0@mix> <015301c23e04$eac70ce0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: MessageA the University of Michigan property depot they are disposing of a half dozen or so "half-height" 19" DEC racks, the kind MicroVAX II's came in (about enough height for three RA-8x disks) as well as two full height racks. They are mostly empty, some have power controllers inside (not taking up space) and a couple have a bunch of network hardware inside (looks like a serial controller with a few racks of modems) $25 for each rack. Get 'em before it rains as they're outside. I picked up: -A NRI(?) SCSI tower with an IBM/Exabyte tape drive, IBM CD-ROM drive, and 1GB HD (Probably for an RS/6000) -A NEC 3x external SCSI CD-ROM drive, from back when they knew how to make a decent drive (Dust latch, front panel LCD + volume + play controls, lots of SCSI settings) -A Cisco Sun FDDI-SBUS card for someone on this list (Please e-mail me again and I'll send it to you) Also picked up an Atari ST-520 with 3.5" external floppy for $2.50 from the Detroit Salvation Army main branch dungeon. Really, it's a dungeon, underneath their main store downtown. Lots of big, wierd printers for those who collect electromechanical stuff. And from John King books (best used bookstore I've seen anywhere) I got the 1984 Personal Computer Sourcebook, which I'll be posting summaries from shortly.. (lists the PCjr as the "IBM Peanut" :) From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 7 08:14:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers( early laptops) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Aug 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > Then there is my Visual Technologies "Commuter". Not a laptop unless > your lap is made of iron and you carry 120VAC with you. Must weigh 30#! > and is about 18 x 16 x 3.5". Has a flip up 20 x 80 LCD screen. As far as I know it's an Intel machine that runs DOS. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From tony.eros at machm.org Wed Aug 7 08:15:01 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Intercept Jr. (was Re: Blowing Up Old Computers( early laptops)) In-Reply-To: <001b01c23daa$71cead20$0d62d6d1@DOMAIN> References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020807091246.01ffc7d0@mail.njd.concentric.com> Speaking of such things, does anyone have an Intersil Intercept Jr.they'd be willing to trade? -- Tony At 08:36 PM 8/6/2002 -0400, you wrote: >I just had to nominate the Intersil Intercept Jr. to the early laptop >catagory, Runs on batteries, fits in a lap. > >;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net > > > > > On Tue, 6 Aug 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > > > And let's not forget the Atari Portfolio which came out, I believe, in >89. > > > > We were trying to avoid mentioning Wintel machines ;/ > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger >http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at >www.VintageTech.com * > > From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 7 08:15:11 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: <200208070540.g775e6s04921@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > Tandy M100, M102, M200. Olivetti M10. And whatever the Kyocera version > > was called. (OK, they contain an 8085 CPU, which was originally an Intel > > design, but I don't think that's the normal meaning of 'Wintel') > > These are Wintel, but they are MStel. The ROM was written by > Microsoft. But they don't run DOS and are 8085-based. Far enough removed that I would not call them "Wintel" at all. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 7 08:15:17 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: <200208070550.g775oXM05004@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > Tandy M100, M102, M200. Olivetti M10. And whatever the Kyocera version > > > was called. (OK, they contain an 8085 CPU, which was originally an Intel > > > design, but I don't think that's the normal meaning of 'Wintel') > > > > These are Wintel, but they are MStel. The ROM was written by > > Microsoft. > > I meant "These aren't Wintel..." Check. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From kentborg at borg.org Wed Aug 7 08:48:00 2002 From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: ; from ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk on Tue, Aug 06, 2002 at 07:30:31PM +0100 References: <20020806093348.A24917@borg.org> Message-ID: <20020807094708.B3905@borg.org> On Tue, Aug 06, 2002 at 07:30:31PM +0100, Tony Duell was confused by my previous description. Um, never trust an eye witness. Last night I shined a bright light into the guts of my clock, and I was wildly wrong in my previous posting. It *is* an escapement movement. The prawl I was remembering was a completely different clock. Sorry for the confusion. Another (smaller!) correction: the self-winding "motor" is a single action device. A solenoid pulls a lever in, and a spring pulls it back. (I think I had earlier said it was two solenoids pulling alternately.) > > Seeing another e-mail that there are a bunch of these in the 'tty > > warehouse, I think you might want to visit NJ soon and get one. > > There is the slight problem that the Atlantic Ocean is in the way! Damn. Maybe someone will collect the whole stack and sell and ship them to others. -kb From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Wed Aug 7 09:14:00 2002 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Intercept Jr. (was Re: Blowing Up Old Computers( early laptops)) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020807091246.01ffc7d0@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: <000001c23e1c$82842560$4d4d2c0a@atx> > Speaking of such things, does anyone have an Intersil Intercept Jr.they'd > be willing to trade? > I do have one of these in working order complete with (well-thumbed!) manual ... however, I was thinking of putting it up on eB*y. Andy (in the UK) From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Aug 7 09:15:01 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: References: <200208070540.g775e6s04921@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020807101022.00ad5510@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Sellam Ismail may have mentioned these words: >On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > Tandy M100, M102, M200. Olivetti M10. And whatever the Kyocera version > > > was called. (OK, they contain an 8085 CPU, which was originally an Intel > > > design, but I don't think that's the normal meaning of 'Wintel') > > > > These are Wintel, but they are MStel. The ROM was written by > > Microsoft. > >But they don't run DOS and are 8085-based. Far enough removed that I >would not call them "Wintel" at all. I'd even say that the [not previously mentioned] Tandy 600 wouldn't be Wintel... It runs an 8088 & uses an MS operating system called HH/OS (short for HandHeld OS - which is a serious misnomer due to the weight of the thing...) It had a flip-up 80x16 screen, and was the first laptop with a built-in floppy drive. It was a Zenith OEM but shared a few characteristics with the Tandy Model 100/102/200, like it's use of the same parallel port cable & whatnot... Most notably absent was BASIC - that was an extra $139... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From dtwright at uiuc.edu Wed Aug 7 09:16:00 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: U of M Property Depot Stuff... In-Reply-To: References: <000301c23d2d$4a229c00$0101a8c0@mix> <015301c23e04$eac70ce0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <20020807141526.GC1290579@uiuc.edu> Jason McBrien said: > > -A Cisco Sun FDDI-SBUS card for someone on this list (Please e-mail me again > and I'll send it to you) Speaking of these: I have 2 of them (dual attach model) for my Suns, but have not been able to get them working (not that I've tried much lately). Does anyone know what driver they use? Does it come with standard Solaris 7 or 8, or is it some Cisco driver? If so, where can I find it? Thanks! - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Aug 7 09:17:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20020807094708.B3905@borg.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Kent Borg wrote: > It *is* an escapement movement. The prawl I was remembering was a ^^^^^ Picking nits: Is there a dfferent term for the same ar in a clock, or is that a "pawl"? Doc From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Aug 7 09:19:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: <200208070550.g775oXM05004@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > Tandy M100, M102, M200. Olivetti M10. And whatever the Kyocera version > > > was called. (OK, they contain an 8085 CPU, which was originally an Intel > > > design, but I don't think that's the normal meaning of 'Wintel') > > > > These are Wintel, but they are MStel. The ROM was written by > > Microsoft. ^ > | > I meant "These aren't Wintel..." | / Pronounced "Messtel", I presume? --' -brian. From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Aug 7 09:41:00 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: References: <200208070550.g775oXM05004@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020807103547.02c41e98@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Brian Chase may have mentioned these words: >On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > > Tandy M100, M102, M200. Olivetti M10. And whatever the Kyocera version > > > > was called. (OK, they contain an 8085 CPU, which was originally an > Intel > > > > design, but I don't think that's the normal meaning of 'Wintel') > > > > > > These are Wintel, but they are MStel. The ROM was written by > > > Microsoft. ^ > > | > > I meant "These aren't Wintel..." | > / >Pronounced "Messtel", I presume? --' Huh? Them's Fightin' words!!! You know, there actually was a time near 20 years ago when you had a chance of getting a decent product out of M$... Then Winders came & screwed it all up; hence the Wintel moniker... [[ and yes, I still use my Tandy 200 on a regular basis... ]] >-brian. -Merch. -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From pcw at mesanet.com Wed Aug 7 09:48:01 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Kent Borg wrote: > > > It *is* an escapement movement. The prawl I was remembering was a What kind of fiendish plotting is going on here with talk of escapment movements and even, dare I say, prawls? > ^^^^^ > Picking nits: > Is there a dfferent term for the same ar in a clock, or is that a > "pawl"? > > Doc > > Peter Wallace From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Aug 7 09:51:00 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: classic computer rescue happy story Message-ID: <177.c95857b.2a828dab@aol.com> Actually, it's not a rescue of sorts, but a revival-- Got an email from a guy that runs a machine shop. Seems they use a PS/2 model 60 to run a lathe. They were having problems getting it working and were out of production. Turns out they are located about an hour away from me. We corresponded and a deal was struck and the following day a guy drove down to meet me and got two replacement model 60s from me for a cool $150. They wanted to keep using the same system since it was a package of some sort they bought quite some time ago and upgrading it would cost $10k. Kinda neat to see old machines still working. With it being a PS/2, I'm not surprised especially being in a machine shop. For those others that run computer museums, it might be wise to state your location. It was lucky he was located in the same state as me. From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Aug 7 10:33:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: classic computer rescue happy story In-Reply-To: <177.c95857b.2a828dab@aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Aug 2002 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > Actually, it's not a rescue of sorts, but a revival-- > > Got an email from a guy that runs a machine shop. Seems they use a PS/2 model > 60 to run a lathe. They were having problems getting it working and were out > of production. Turns out they are located about an hour away from me. We I got a buck saying a trip through the dishwasher fixes it. Excluding drives, of course. Machine shop air is mostly grease and coolant, which is even stickier. Doc From kentborg at borg.org Wed Aug 7 10:34:36 2002 From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: ; from doc@mdrconsult.com on Wed, Aug 07, 2002 at 09:16:20AM -0500 References: <20020807094708.B3905@borg.org> Message-ID: <20020807113227.E3905@borg.org> On Wed, Aug 07, 2002 at 09:16:20AM -0500, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Kent Borg wrote: > > > It *is* an escapement movement. The prawl I was remembering was a > ^^^^^ > Picking nits: > Is there a dfferent term for the same ar in a clock, or is that a > "pawl"? It is me continuing to be ign'ant. I should have written "pawl". (Egads, another damn homonym in this language.) -kb From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Wed Aug 7 10:46:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: VMS question In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020807154509.02426d18@kerberos.davies.net.au> <02080615040400.03350@sputnik> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020807114427.01454db8@pop1.epm.net.co> At 01:18 AM 8/7/02 -0700, you wrote: >>You can open a file to append, in which case the version number isn't >>changed. Of course, typical VMS applications open the log file and never >>close it and assuming you code it correctly, other applications can read >>the log file. > >Unfortuantly at least version 1.9 of Samba (yeah, I know it's ancient, but >it works for me) has the bad habit of creating a LOT of log files. I >finally ended up creating a batch job to clean up after it. > > Zane Hey, I have an unused distribution of "rumba" which claims to do what samba does but on VMS. Has anybody ever used it? Is it any good? carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Aug 7 11:35:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Text? (was: Intergraph interserve 2000 for free In-Reply-To: <015301c23e04$eac70ce0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Sipke de Wal wrote: > BODY { MARGIN-TOP: 25px; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 25px; COLOR: > #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica } P.msoNormal { MARGIN-TOP: 0px; > FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px; COLOR: #ffffcc; FONT-FAMILY: > Helvetica, "Times New Roman" } LI.msoNormal {MARGIN-TOP: 0px; FONT-SIZE: > 10pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px; COLOR: #ffffcc; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica, "Times > New Roman" } Where would that be near Leiden ? > I live near Leiden .......... Would it be possible to reduce the extraneous formatting? Plain text would be nice. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Aug 7 11:44:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Text? (was: Intergraph interserve 2000 for free References: Message-ID: <3D514D3A.6020303@jetnet.ab.ca> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Plain text would be nice. 45 or 110 baud? :) From msspcva at yahoo.com Wed Aug 7 11:48:01 2002 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Paging Tothwolf Message-ID: <20020807164737.85106.qmail@web14612.mail.yahoo.com> Tried to send Tothwolf a message directly to the account at concentric.net and the system bounced it as 'user unknown': ==== Message from yahoo.com. Unable to deliver message to the following address(es). : 207.155.198.87 does not like recipient. Remote host said: 550 5.1.1 ... User unknown Giving up on 207.155.198.87. ==== If anyone has a direct line to Tothwolf please pass this on. -- Frank ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com From dittman at dittman.net Wed Aug 7 11:56:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: VMS question In-Reply-To: from "Carlos Murillo" at Aug 07, 2002 11:44:27 AM Message-ID: <200208071653.g77GrbK06653@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >>You can open a file to append, in which case the version number isn't > >>changed. Of course, typical VMS applications open the log file and never > >>close it and assuming you code it correctly, other applications can read > >>the log file. > > > >Unfortuantly at least version 1.9 of Samba (yeah, I know it's ancient, but > >it works for me) has the bad habit of creating a LOT of log files. I > >finally ended up creating a batch job to clean up after it. > > > > Zane > > Hey, I have an unused distribution of "rumba" which claims to > do what samba does but on VMS. Has anybody ever used it? > Is it any good? I've never used Rumba or Samba on VMS. I use either Pathworks or Advanced Server. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Aug 7 12:08:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Text? (was: Intergraph interserve 2000 for free In-Reply-To: <3D514D3A.6020303@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > Plain text would be nice. > 45 or 110 baud? :) I have difficulty finding anywhere that I can connect at less than 14.4K From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Aug 7 12:24:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Text? (was: Intergraph interserve 2000 for free In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > > Plain text would be nice. > > 45 or 110 baud? :) > > I have difficulty finding anywhere that I can connect at less than 14.4K The last time I tried was about 2 years ago, but my DOS-based AOL disk would still log on at 2400bps. IIRC, there wasn't much available _but_ the logon. There are still some low-speed BBS and Fidonet nodes around. Doc From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Aug 7 12:26:51 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Text? (was: Intergraph interserve 2000 for free In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > > Plain text would be nice. > > 45 or 110 baud? :) > > I have difficulty finding anywhere that I can connect at less than 14.4K > > May I suggest: 14.070 to 14.110 MHtz, USB, 170 Shift... especially weekends. You'll need a few trivial details, like a Ham License of at least General Class, an HF rig, and some kind of Terminal Unit / Decoder / Radio Modem.... perhpas you'll even have a Real Mechanical Teletype. If 45.45 Baudot don't crank yer tractor - well you can always step up to the SuperModernWorld of ---> 300 Baud AX.25 HF Packet!!!! Whew! That's about all I can stand. Where's my Iced Tea??? John KB6SCO Who thinks a Model 19 is a *lot* more fun to watch than say, oh, Female Celebrity Spackle Wrestling.... From jbmcb at hotmail.com Wed Aug 7 13:11:01 2002 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: U of M Property Depot Stuff... References: <000301c23d2d$4a229c00$0101a8c0@mix> <015301c23e04$eac70ce0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> <20020807141526.GC1290579@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: I think you need a Cisco specific driver for them. I couldn't find it on Cisco's web site, but I didn't look too hard. They did have the manual, which is nice. Cisco seems to be one of those companies that wants $$$ for support contracts/downloading software. The unit I have is actually a pre-cisco Fibre adapter, from some company Cisco bought, but it looks exactly the same as the Cisco FDDI adapter, so I'm assuming they just relabled them. Sun still has drivers on their web site for their FDDI adapter, you could try them. ----- Original Message ----- > Speaking of these: I have 2 of them (dual attach model) for my Suns, but have > not been able to get them working (not that I've tried much lately). Does > anyone know what driver they use? Does it come with standard Solaris 7 or 8, > or is it some Cisco driver? If so, where can I find it? > > Thanks! > > - Dan Wright From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 7 13:27:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020807101022.00ad5510@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > I'd even say that the [not previously mentioned] Tandy 600 wouldn't be > Wintel... It runs an 8088 & uses an MS operating system called HH/OS (short > for HandHeld OS - which is a serious misnomer due to the weight of the Hmm, the pre-cursor of WinCE? > thing...) It had a flip-up 80x16 screen, and was the first laptop with a > built-in floppy drive. It was a Zenith OEM but shared a few characteristics Really? What year did this come out? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 7 13:32:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Text? (was: Intergraph interserve 2000 for free In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, John Lawson wrote: > Who thinks a Model 19 is a *lot* more fun to watch than say, oh, Female > Celebrity Spackle Wrestling.... How about a spacle wrestling contest between 19 year old models? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From donm at cts.com Wed Aug 7 13:35:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers( early laptops) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Aug 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 6 Aug 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > > > Then there is my Visual Technologies "Commuter". Not a laptop unless > > your lap is made of iron and you carry 120VAC with you. Must weigh 30#! > > and is about 18 x 16 x 3.5". Has a flip up 20 x 80 LCD screen. > > As far as I know it's an Intel machine that runs DOS. True! - don > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Aug 7 13:39:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Text? (was: Intergraph interserve 2000 for free References: Message-ID: <3D51683C.8090500@jetnet.ab.ca> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, John Lawson wrote: > > >> Who thinks a Model 19 is a *lot* more fun to watch than say, oh, Female >>Celebrity Spackle Wrestling.... > > > How about a spacle wrestling contest between 19 year old models? > Umm Cute key punch operators in mini-skirts would be more on topic. :) From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Aug 7 14:23:00 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020807101022.00ad5510@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020807150342.0285cd70@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Sellam Ismail may have mentioned these words: >On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > I'd even say that the [not previously mentioned] Tandy 600 wouldn't be > > Wintel... It runs an 8088 & uses an MS operating system called HH/OS (short > > for HandHeld OS - which is a serious misnomer due to the weight of the > >Hmm, the pre-cursor of WinCE? Tough to say... but could be!?!? > > thing...) It had a flip-up 80x16 screen, and was the first laptop with a > > built-in floppy drive. It was a Zenith OEM but shared a few characteristics > >Really? What year did this come out? My brain wants to say '86 or '87, but having just moved, it's packed somewhere... I'll see if I can find it in the next day or two & find out... [[ quick jaunt to google... ]] Found one timeline that places it at Nov. '85... According to the Tandy 600 FAQ, it was announced on 28 Oct. '85, so my memory was close... but I've always been a bit off... [ ba-da-bum. Splat.] Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Aug 7 14:53:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Thanks for the Lisa XL Info Message-ID: <00f801c23e4b$f209e800$ef000240@oemcomputer> Forgot who it was that alerted me to the XL on eBay for $20, but wanted to say thanks as I won it for the $20. Now if you can just find me a Lisa 1, then I will have a complete collection of the Lisa's. Oh yea the same $20 would be nice too. :-) On a little different note I was talking to my daughter about the Lisa 1 manual going for $350 on eBay and she reminded me of the fact that I tossed about 10 of those manuals (she took them to Half Price books to sell and only got about a nickel apiece for them) back in 1995 when I was closing down my shop to move to MN. Oh well you never know. :-( -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020807/7a6fd86d/attachment.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Aug 7 15:04:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020807150342.0285cd70@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > I'd even say that the [not previously mentioned] Tandy 600 wouldn't be > > > Wintel... It runs an 8088 & uses an MS operating system called HH/OS (short > > > for HandHeld OS - which is a serious misnomer due to the weight of the > > > thing...) It had a flip-up 80x16 screen, and was the first laptop with a > > > built-in floppy drive. It was a Zenith OEM but shared a few characteristics > >Really? What year did this come out? > My brain wants to say '86 or '87, but having just moved, it's packed > somewhere... I'll see if I can find it in the next day or two & find out... > Found one timeline that places it at Nov. '85... According to the Tandy 600 > FAQ, it was announced on 28 Oct. '85, so my memory was close... but I've > always been a bit off... [ ba-da-bum. Splat.] If it was, indeed '86 or '87, or even '85, then it was absolutely NOT the first to have a built-in floppy drive! No matter what Radio Shack might claim. They also have, at various times, claimed to have invented the "clamshell" design, RS-232, modems, and microcomputers. Think Gavilan and Grid! And, should we consider the "built-in" tape drive of the Epson HC-20 followed by the HX-20 in that?, or just those using a floppy disk? From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 7 15:38:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020807150342.0285cd70@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > thing...) It had a flip-up 80x16 screen, and was the first laptop with a > > > built-in floppy drive. It was a Zenith OEM but shared a few characteristics > > > >Really? What year did this come out? > > My brain wants to say '86 or '87, but having just moved, it's packed > somewhere... I'll see if I can find it in the next day or two & find out... There were a few computers before the Tandy 600 with a built-in disk drive. The first that I can think of off-hand and which would have been the earliest is the Gavilan. It featured a 3" disk drive. Or did you mean 3.5" disk drive specifically? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Aug 7 15:45:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: SCSI-View SCSI bus analyzer? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020807163117.0ec7d70c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Is anyone here familar with the sv-1600 SCSI-View SCSI bus analyzer made by VeriSoft? I found one today. It's a card that fits in a 16 bit PC-AT socket. I'm looking for a manual and software for it. Joe From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Aug 7 15:55:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > There were a few computers before the Tandy 600 with a built-in disk > drive. The first that I can think of off-hand and which would have been > the earliest is the Gavilan. It featured a 3" disk drive. > Or did you mean 3.5" disk drive specifically? Before the Tandy 600 came out, Gavilan had already switched from a 3" drive to a 3.5" drive (Shugart SA300 (single sided)) Right about the time that they closed, they were supporting double sided 3.5" (Shugart SA350), with their OEM MS-DOS 2.11J? Installing other brands of double sided drives was possible, but they had a custom faceplate that would only fit the Shugarts - it could be removed from a Gavilan SA300 and installed on a SA350. From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Aug 7 16:47:00 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020807150342.0285cd70@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020807162538.02947a50@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) may have mentioned these words: >If it was, indeed '86 or '87, or even '85, then it was absolutely NOT the >first to have a built-in floppy drive! No matter what Radio Shack might >claim. They also have, at various times, claimed to have invented the >"clamshell" design, RS-232, modems, and microcomputers. I was repeating what I'd heard other folks intelligent in the ways & means of classic laptops; I've owned more than enough Tandys & even worked for Tandy long enough to know that there's not an iota of truth in many of RS's claimed "inventions" and/or breakthrus... >Think Gavilan and Grid! I'm thinking... I'm thinking... I'm thinking I'm coming up blank! I've never seen (or heard of; other than a random post on the list "I just got a Grid"...) either of these so I wouldn't know one if you hit me over the head with it... >And, should we consider the "built-in" tape drive of the Epson HC-20 >followed by the HX-20 in that?, or just those using a floppy disk? _That_ I was being specific with... I knew there were many earlier laptops with built-in magnetic storage... -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Wed Aug 7 17:20:00 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:34 2005 Subject: Network cards Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E88@BUSH02> Slightly OT but.. Two Madge Smart 16/4 PCI ringnode cards. Untested. Anyone? Cheers, Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From doug_jackson at citadel.com.au Wed Aug 7 18:37:00 2002 From: doug_jackson at citadel.com.au (Doug Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model III Message-ID: I know that the TRS-80 Model 4P uses a PLL to do the high res video mode, and that a common cause of crappy quality display is the setting of the VCO cap. My 4P was unsable until I adjusted the cap, not it is beautiful. regards Doug Jackson MSS Operations Manager Citadel Securix (02) 6290 9011 (Ph) (02) 6262 6215 (Fax) (0414) 986 878 (mobile) > -----Original Message----- > From: Curt Vendel [mailto:curt@atarimuseum.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 1:43 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: TRS-80 Model III > > > Sellam, > > Are the boot straps on eproms on the motherboards??? You > may be facing > possible bitrot, that's one possibility. > > > Curt > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sellam Ismail" > To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 3:31 PM > Subject: TRS-80 Model III > > > > > > I am trying to get a TRS-80 Model III working. When I turn > it on the disk > > drive spins for a while looking for a disk I presume. All > I get on the > > screen are wispish diagonal lines as if the horizontal hold is all > > whacked. > > > > I managed to unstick one of the video adjustment knobs on the left > > underside but all it does is affect the brightness level. > The other one > > requires a screwdriver to move at all (shimmying it up and > down) and does > > not seem to affect the display. I haven't opened it yet to see what > > adjustments are inside. I'd rather not, but there don't > seem to be any > > adjustment pots accessible from outside the case. > > > > What's weird is that I have access to a bunch of TRS-80 > Model 3's here at > > the ACCRC and pretty much all of the ones I have played > with so far are > > basically "dead" in this manner. The one I'm working on > just came in > > today and is in the same state. Also, the video knobs on the left > > underside are all stuck on everyone I've tried to get > working. What is > > the deal with that? Do they get rusted over time or > something? Very > > annoying. > > > > The fact that the disk drive spins up when I turn it on is > a good sign I > > hope. > > > > Any help on this would be appreciated. I know next to zero > about the > > TRS-80 series. > > > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer > Festival > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------ > ---- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * > > > CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. http://www.citadel.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020807/e984135e/attachment.html From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Aug 7 18:52:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: WTS: MCA NICs & PS/2 Model 70s Message-ID: I've got a bunch of (8) MCA NICS, and four PS/2 Model 70s with a NIC each in them. Only problem -- some of the computers dont have hard drives, some dont have floppy drives, and NONE have memory. All of the NICs are SMC/WDC cards that have both AUI and 10BaseT connectors on them. I'm interested in DEC and RS/6000 hardware, or money. Make offers if interested. -- Pat From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 7 19:12:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model III In-Reply-To: <002001c23dc4$92b0cd60$01000001@cvendel> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Aug 2002, Curt Vendel wrote: > Are the boot straps on eproms on the motherboards??? You may be > facing possible bitrot, that's one possibility. Er, huh? :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 7 19:14:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model III In-Reply-To: <000601c23e03$8c506c20$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Chandra Bajpai wrote: > What happens if you press the key down while powering up...it > should take you into ROM Basic with a "cass?" prompt. Nope, still no video. The video is hosed. Along with the rest of the units I've tried. Now I know why stuff like TRS-80s and C64s were so derided back in the day: the shit just don't last! On the other hand, I've rarely met an Apple ][ that didn't boot. Coincidence? You be the judge. > I grew up with a Model III and it's been a while, but I don't remember > there being an error message if it doesn't find disk in the drive. > Matter of fact I don't remember any text error messages from the boot > loader. > > If you can get into ROM Basic, it probably means you have a bad boot > disk. Well, I have no boot disk. I'm trying to see if this machine works. Apparently it does to an extent but the video definitely has a problem. Nobody knows how to fix this? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 7 19:15:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model III In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, Doug Jackson wrote: > I know that the TRS-80 Model 4P uses a PLL to do the high res video > mode, and that a common cause of crappy quality display is the setting > of the VCO cap. > > My 4P was unsable until I adjusted the cap, not it is beautiful. Where is this cap located? Maybe I'll try giving this one a twirl and see if that fixes it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Aug 7 19:27:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: info? Micro Instruments memory voltmeter Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020807202815.46bf43ce@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I picked up an intersting gadget today. It's a model 5203C Memory Voltmeter made by Micro Instruments. It has a four digit Nixie tube display and appears capture and display + or - DC or AC peak voltages. Does anyone know anything about these? It has two zero adjustments, among other things I'm trying to figure out exactly what they do. Neither of them seems to "zero" the meter in the normal manner. Also what does "Narrow band" and "wide Band" mean? Changing the setting doesn't change the voltage range so has to be for something else. Joe From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Wed Aug 7 19:55:01 2002 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: Network cards In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E88@BUSH02> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020807205154.00a4ed90@n.ml.org> Ya, hi, I'm interested (Token Ring Buff) -John Boffemmyer IV john@boff-net.dhs.org At 06:22 PM 8/7/02, you wrote: >Slightly OT but.. > >Two Madge Smart 16/4 PCI ringnode cards. > >Untested. Anyone? > >Cheers, > Lee. > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- >This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The >information contained in this email may contain information which is >confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender >and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. > > If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please >delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International >IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. > >________________________________________________________________________ >This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The >service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive >anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: >http://www.star.net.uk >________________________________________________________________________ ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From archer at topnow.com Wed Aug 7 20:00:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: info? Micro Instruments memory voltmeter References: <3.0.6.16.20020807202815.46bf43ce@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3D51C265.7060BD75@topnow.com> Joe wrote: > > I picked up an intersting gadget today. It's a model 5203C Memory Voltmeter made by Micro Instruments. It has a four digit Nixie tube display and appears capture and display + or - DC or AC peak voltages. Does anyone know anything about these? It has two zero adjustments, among other things I'm trying to figure out exactly what they do. Neither of them seems to "zero" the meter in the normal manner. Does it affect the readings as you change the zero setting? After all these years, perhaps the components have drifted out of tolerance far enough that it doesn't zero anymore? > Also what does "Narrow band" and "wide Band" mean? Changing the setting doesn't change the voltage range so has to be for something else. A guess, but a pretty safe one, would be that the AC mode response might extend up quite a ways and the "narrow-band" setting is to limit its sensitivity to AC noise for measuring slow-moving AC voltages like powerline AC volts. The "wideband" setting would presumably be chosen to read AC voltages from at least low audio range up to who knows how high up. Might be useful for measuring the output of an AM or FM demodulator stage or measure gain when injecting a nice audible AC sinewave signal into the stage under test? > > Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 7 20:04:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model III In-Reply-To: <20020807042452.10723.qmail@web14605.mail.yahoo.com> from "Clayton Frank Helvey" at Aug 6, 2 09:24:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 792 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020807/1689c615/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 7 20:04:07 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Aug 7, 2 09:16:20 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 711 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020807/0ce288ad/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 7 20:04:20 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model III In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Aug 6, 2 12:31:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2468 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020807/9b77636f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 7 20:04:27 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: OT: Digital Watch Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20020807094708.B3905@borg.org> from "Kent Borg" at Aug 7, 2 09:47:08 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1953 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020807/858233f5/attachment.ksh From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Wed Aug 7 20:07:00 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: Network cards Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E8A@BUSH02> Ya, hi, I'm interested (Token Ring Buff) Sorry, you missed them by 43 minutes. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 7 20:13:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model III In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Aug 7, 2 09:13:20 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1386 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020807/49bd4bfd/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Aug 7 20:14:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model III In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > What happens if you press the key down while powering up...it > > should take you into ROM Basic with a "cass?" prompt. > Nope, still no video. The video is hosed. Along with the rest of the > units I've tried. > Now I know why stuff like TRS-80s and C64s were so derided back in the > day: the shit just don't last! > > On the other hand, I've rarely met an Apple ][ that didn't boot. > Coincidence? You be the judge. Actually, I rarely encounter a stored Apple ][ (or ][+) that will boot until I press down on each and every chip to get through the corrosion of the cheap sockets. That is EXACTLY the same problem as most of the TRS-80s! Just like Apple, they cut too many corners on connector quality. Cleaning connections will usually get them working. In addition, some of the TRS-80 keyboards (there are a couple of different types) won't work after extended storage unless you open them up and clean them (or just work the keys A LOT). A Rochester Dynatyper or KGS80 keyboard actuator works great for that (a box of solenoids that was intended to sit on a typewriter keyboard to substitute for a printer) > Well, I have no boot disk. I'm trying to see if this machine works. > Apparently it does to an extent but the video definitely has a problem. > > Nobody knows how to fix this? Once you've cleaned the connector contacts, ... If it still won't work, then better ask Tony! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 7 20:21:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model III In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Aug 7, 2 09:14:19 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2426 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020807/ed3840cc/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Aug 7 21:01:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020807162538.02947a50@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > >Think Gavilan and Grid! > I'm thinking... I'm thinking... I'm thinking I'm coming up blank! I've > never seen (or heard of; other than a random post on the list "I just got a > Grid"...) either of these so I wouldn't know one if you hit me over the > head with it... Gavilan: Introduced at NCC (National Computer Conference) in Anaheim summer 1983? Dark grey, almost black, with clamshell design, but extending further back, past the hinge. 3" floppy drive on the side, later replaced by SS 3.5". 8 line x 80 LCD, later replaced by 16 line display, (plus 80 x 25 composite video output). Removable non-volatile RAM cartridges. Expansion connector on the back. Second floppy or printer could attach to the back, or external 5.25" (unattached except by cable). Printer was thermal with ribbon (could use thermal paper, or plain paper with ribbon, using thermal paper AND ribbon gave VERY nice print quality) 8088 processor (V20 could be installed with a few modifications) Some software of their own, plus MS-DOS 2.11. The Gavilan company was quite arrogant and top-heavy, and toppled after a few good years. Somewhere, I have some reels of tape that are supposedly backup tapes from their minicomputer. I don't have anything handy that will read them. Uncle Roger got the rest of my Gavilan stuff (a couple of totes full) Grid: Introduced at PC Faire? Fall 1983? Black magnesium case. Very sexy. Sorry, no specs handy, and I didn't own any to be able to describe it. The Grid company was eventually devoured by Tandy. From mross666 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 7 22:16:16 2002 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: Another save Message-ID: A System/38 :-) http://www.corestore.org/s38.htm I'm picking up a System/32 and /34 in the next couple of weeks, now all I need is to find that System/3... If anyone else has a System/38 and is having a hard time getting it going, drop me a line - I've got big boxes stuffed full of manuals, MAPs, MIMs, and software... Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Aug 7 22:27:01 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model III In-Reply-To: References: <000601c23e03$8c506c20$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020807230838.00adcff8@mail.30below.com> At 09:13 08/07/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Nope, still no video. The video is hosed. Along with the rest of the >units I've tried. > >Now I know why stuff like TRS-80s and C64s were so derided back in the >day: the shit just don't last! Every machine has it's pros & cons... the video memory mapping that seemed to defy logic on the Apple ][s is one of the main reasons why I never stuck with them... Honestly, I don't think I *ever* had a Tandy CoCo, no matter where I got it, no matter what shape I got it in, that didn't boot first time up; IIRC I had a floppy drive controller that on occasion might hiccup every 1/4th boot every couple years; pull 1 screw, reseat chips, reassemble, good for a couple more years. The beauty of that controller was this: if it was wonky, it wouldn't survive the boot to OS-9. If the OS booted, it would work flawlessly until the next reboot, even if it was days later... I still have no idea how the chips "knew" to "hold on, dammit, hold on!" - but I never lost a single bit. Oh, and I had one CoCo2 that I got from a garage sale would miss around 1/2 of the characters typed on the keyboard, but I'm sure that the 1/4 cup of sand that I extricated from the keyboard during the re-build had nothing to do with it... (worked flawlessly after that...) Maybe Tandys just don't like you??? ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Aug 7 22:40:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model III In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020807230838.00adcff8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: Hmmmm. You need to either have a boot disk in the drive (you said that you didn't have one), or press the break key when booting to get video. If that isn't working, the video might actually be bad, or the break key may be non-functional. If it is the brass contact type, pull the keytop and clean it. Or press it a few hundred times. If that works, you may need to exercise the rest of the keys. See if Frank has my old centronics KGS80. Put it on the keyboard and dump this list through it. From fernande at internet1.net Wed Aug 7 23:13:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: Paging Tothwolf References: <20020807164737.85106.qmail@web14612.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D51EF92.7080404@internet1.net> Clayton Frank Helvey wrote: > Tried to send Tothwolf a message directly to the > account at concentric.net and the system bounced it as > 'user unknown': He's having some email troubles. He responded to me on the 6th, and mentioned that he was only hooked up temporarily. He didn't go into any details on why. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 7 23:30:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model III In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > Nope, still no video. The video is hosed. Along with the rest of the > > units I've tried. > > Are you sure it's not the BREAK key? I have had bad keyboard contacts on > M3 keyboards... No, I'm not. Good point. I think I'll work the key or clean it as Fred suggests and see where that leads. > Also, it is possible to set the external controls so that the video is > invisible (absolutely no video signal at all). After holding down break > and pressing reset, fiddle with the video controls. I have the brightness set very high so I can see any text that may pop up on the screen, but I still think the horizontal hold needs adjustment before I'll see anything legible. > > On the other hand, I've rarely met an Apple ][ that didn't boot. > > Coincidence? You be the judge. > > Odd.... I've never had a TRS-80 that's failed to boot (other than needing > cleaning of external connectors). I've had plenty of Apple ][ problems. > Perhaps it's just that I know the TRS-80 better, I have all the service > manuals to hand, so if i have even minor problems I know what to look for > and how to prevent said problems becoming major ones. That's probably true. I was just in a very ornery mood when I wrote that after unsuccessfully trying to get a TRS-80 Model III, a Commodore 64, and an Atari 800 working without success. > Well, I have the M3 service manual alongside me, but since the fault you > describe could be caused by hundreds of things, you've not given me much > to go on. Do you have a multimeter? A logic probe? A 'scope? Yes, no, yes, but I'll try the simple suggestions first before we have to go that route. Thanks! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 7 23:36:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: Blowing Up Old Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Grid: > Introduced at PC Faire? Fall 1983? Earlier: 1982. Don't know where. > Black magnesium case. Very sexy. Mmmm. > Sorry, no specs handy, and I didn't own any to be able to describe it. Uncle Roger has a nice spec page (includes photos): http://www.sinasohn.com/cgi-bin/clascomp/bldhtm.pl?computer=compass Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jsickles at comcast.net Wed Aug 7 23:43:00 2002 From: jsickles at comcast.net (James Sickles) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: looking for: extended mass storage rom for hp 87 Message-ID: <01C23E14.839BF7A0.jsickles@comcast.net> Hi, I'm also looking for an HP Extended Mass Storage module (hp 00085-15013) for the HP 85 (A/B). I'm trying to get an old disk drive (hp 9133 D) to work with an HP 85 B. I could probably find some HP 85 stuff to trade for this. Thanks. Jim Jim Sickles jsickles@comcast.net From harryconickjr at hotmail.com Wed Aug 7 23:43:09 2002 From: harryconickjr at hotmail.com (Brett Chessher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: SEMI4200 IC Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020807/eacb2103/attachment.html From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 7 23:43:27 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model III In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020807230838.00adcff8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Every machine has it's pros & cons... the video memory mapping that seemed > to defy logic on the Apple ][s is one of the main reasons why I never stuck > with them... Actually, it's entirely logical, if you're a computer :) The problem is not the non-sequential graphics screen layout (easily fixed with an index-referenced memory map) but the fact that you must do all the graphics processing in between regular code unlike on other systems that had a dedicated graphics chip. Ditto for the sound generation. Which makes games that were developed on the Apple ][ all the more impressive. The code to pull off really slick games had to be tight and clever. Therefore, Apple ][ programmers make better overall coders (in my not-at-all-humble opinion :P ) > Honestly, I don't think I *ever* had a Tandy CoCo, no matter where I got > it, no matter what shape I got it in, that didn't boot first time up; IIRC In my experience I'd have to agree with that assessment. > I had a floppy drive controller that on occasion might hiccup every 1/4th > boot every couple years; pull 1 screw, reseat chips, reassemble, good for a > couple more years. The beauty of that controller was this: if it was wonky, > it wouldn't survive the boot to OS-9. If the OS booted, it would work > flawlessly until the next reboot, even if it was days later... I still have > no idea how the chips "knew" to "hold on, dammit, hold on!" - but I never > lost a single bit. I don't think I've ever had an Apple ][ disk controller failure of any kind. With only 7 ICs there wasn't much to go wrong :) > Maybe Tandys just don't like you??? ;-) Not Tandys, Radio Shacks (and Commodores, and Ataris... :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jsickles at comcast.net Wed Aug 7 23:43:33 2002 From: jsickles at comcast.net (James Sickles) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: Looking For: Extended Mass Storage ROM for the HP 85 Message-ID: <01C23E12.BB12CC60.jsickles@comcast.net> Hi I'm looking for the HP 00085-15013 Extended Mass Storage (EMS) ROM module for the HP 85 (A/B). A trade for some other HP 85 stuff would be a possibility. Thanks, Jim Jim Sickles jsickles@comcast.net From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 7 23:44:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model III In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > See if Frank has my old centronics KGS80. Put it on the keyboard and > dump this list through it. That would probably just pollute its mind, making matters much worse. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From groovelists at yahoo.com Thu Aug 8 00:02:00 2002 From: groovelists at yahoo.com (Andy Berg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: [rescue] DECServer 200 and the Great Purge In-Reply-To: <1028500219.3537.1.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> Message-ID: <20020808050141.10747.qmail@web20501.mail.yahoo.com> Hi! :) I don't know if this has been brought up, but thought I might mention it just in case. :) I also don't know how much of the stuff is mirrored here, but might be worth a look, perhaps? ftp://ftp.europe.digital.com/pub/DEC has at least some of the stuff that used to be at gatekeeper, including pr0801eng.sys. Hope this can help somebody. :) Andy ___________________ grooveman@yahoo.com --- Alex White wrote: > On Sun, 2002-08-04 at 22:57, Kris Kirby wrote: > > On 4 Aug 2002, Alex White wrote: > > > During the Great Purge of gatekeeper.dec.com did > anyone grab the > > > DECServer 200's bootup files? Specifically: > > > > http://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/DEC/DecServer/pr0801eng.sys > > > > gah. if I'd have known they were doing this, I'd > have mirrored it myself. > > *nods* We got wind of it a few days before it was > pulled, people > scrabbled to archive it - people started > unco-ordinatedly at first then > got it together. Did we collectively get it all? > > Alex > -- > > Live like you will never die, love like you've never > been hurt, dance > like no-one is watching. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com From kevin at ps8.co.uk Thu Aug 8 01:13:01 2002 From: kevin at ps8.co.uk (Kevin Murrell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: Webster WQSMD Controller Message-ID: Hi all Does anyone have a copy of the manual for this QBUS SMD controller? We need to access the onboard diags/formatter. I believe there is an RS232 port on board (but do not have the pinouts), but I think we could also access it through the console. Thanks in anticipation Kevin From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Thu Aug 8 05:48:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: Dec TU-56 Question Message-ID: <020801c23ec8$fb0d4f50$3200a8c0@winnt> I've finally gotten the drive 0 reverse motor on my TU-56 tape drive working. It required the replacement of two transistors on the Motor Drive Control Board. The problem I now have is that the motor only runs at high (18V) speed, even when it should be running at low (9V) speed. Any hints as to where to look next? As an aside, I think fixing the things is more fun than running them. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Aug 8 07:03:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: info? Micro Instruments memory voltmeter In-Reply-To: <3D51C265.7060BD75@topnow.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20020807202815.46bf43ce@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020808075343.3b77d0e8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:59 PM 8/7/02 -0700, you wrote: >Joe wrote: >> >> I picked up an intersting gadget today. It's a model 5203C Memory Voltmeter made by Micro Instruments. It has a four digit Nixie tube display and appears capture and display + or - DC or AC peak voltages. Does anyone know anything about these? It has two zero adjustments, among other things I'm trying to figure out exactly what they do. Neither of them seems to "zero" the meter in the normal manner. > >Does it affect the readings as you change the zero setting? >After all these years, perhaps the components have drifted >out of tolerance far enough that it doesn't zero anymore? Both Zero adjustments seems to have little or no effect on the zero readings but they have a large effect on the display when you're measuring a signal. IOW they seems to control gain more than zero. It appears that one controls the displayed value for the negative measurements and the other controls the display for the positive measurements but there is a lot of interaction between them. > >> Also what does "Narrow band" and "wide Band" mean? Changing the setting doesn't change the voltage range so has to be for something else. > >A guess, but a pretty safe one, would be that the AC mode >response might extend up quite a ways and the "narrow-band" >setting is to limit its sensitivity to AC noise for >measuring slow-moving AC voltages like powerline AC volts. You're probably right. As guess as to what the cut off frequencies are? Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Aug 8 07:03:33 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: FA: Manual for Tektronix 4051 Data Com. Interface Item # 1756557693 Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020808080043.3b77277e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Aug 8 07:03:44 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: Another HTML message! Re: SEMI4200 IC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020808074516.3c37daf4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Another HTML message! I wonder if we can just have Jay filter these and file them in the bit bucket where they belong? Joe At 09:15 PM 8/7/02 +0000, you wrote: >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\SEMI4200.htm" > From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Thu Aug 8 07:43:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: Dec TU-56 Question References: <020801c23ec8$fb0d4f50$3200a8c0@winnt> Message-ID: <3D52671E.54A5D970@compsys.to> >Christopher McNabb wrote: > I've finally gotten the drive 0 reverse motor on my TU-56 tape drive > working. It required the replacement of two transistors on the Motor Drive > Control Board. The problem I now have is that the motor only runs at high > (18V) speed, even when it should be running at low (9V) speed. Any hints as > to where to look next? > As an aside, I think fixing the things is more fun than running them. Jerome Fine replies: As a software person, I can't help with the tape drive. But your comment about fixing the hardware is interesting. I find that my personal experience with software is about the same - I enjoy fixing the bugs plus enhancing the software I use (I am an RT-11 addict) more than just using the programs. Although I must admit that I have found that some of the enhancements I have made to the Single Line Editor (SL:) as well as to the Binary Compare utility (BINCOM) have been extremely helpful when I use them to help with other work. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Aug 8 11:11:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: UnixPC 7300 --> 3b2 Message-ID: Hi. I'm looking at picking up an ATT 3b2 to complement my 7300. I know the 3b2 has a different CPU type (WE3102?) as opposed to the 7300's 68010. Are they binary-compatible? Specifically, can I use the same install and program media for both? Doc From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Aug 8 11:49:01 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: UnixPC 7300 --> 3b2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > Hi. > I'm looking at picking up an ATT 3b2 to complement my 7300. I know > the 3b2 has a different CPU type (WE3102?) as opposed to the 7300's > 68010. Are they binary-compatible? Specifically, can I use the same > install and program media for both? > > Doc > > > No, completely different beasts... Peter Wallace From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Aug 8 11:57:00 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: Found source for NOS tapes/media--need any? Message-ID: <16a.11d2d9bb.2a83fcb9@aol.com> Went to a local computer store and their discount table was full of old tapes and media, mostly new factory sealed. I got: DC2120XL XIMAT DC2080 RHOMAT 3m drive upgrade kit with 2120 XL ximat and arcadia dos backup app DC2060 KAPPAMAT irwin 40 128 meg optical disks. There was also other tapes of varying types and sizes, DC600,. lots of syquest 88 (are they backwards compatible with the syquest 44?) , 6120(?) and so on and so forth. If anyone needs some of these tapes, message me and we can strike a deal. Now I can use my IBM 6157 tape drive, and my PS/2's tape backup and M/O drive. From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Aug 8 12:18:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: UnixPC 7300 --> 3b2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020808173518.GA285@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Peter C. Wallace, from writings of Thu, Aug 08, 2002 at 09:48:19AM -0700: > > I'm looking at picking up an ATT 3b2 to complement my 7300. I know [...] > > install and program media for both? > No, completely different beasts... ...and they come in quite a range of sizes; they're not all just little boxes that one can haul home in a car. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From wpfulmor at dimensional.com Thu Aug 8 12:18:21 2002 From: wpfulmor at dimensional.com (William Fulmor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: UnixPC 7300 --> 3b2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > Hi. > I'm looking at picking up an ATT 3b2 to complement my 7300. I know > the 3b2 has a different CPU type (WE3102?) as opposed to the 7300's > 68010. Are they binary-compatible? Specifically, can I use the same > install and program media for both? > > Doc 3b2 300, 400, 600(?) used WE32000, IIRC. 3b2 1000 had some sort of RISC CPU. Binaries are _not_ compatible, files could be exchanged directly only via tape, not floppy. Of course ethernet, or serial connection works too. Bill From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Aug 8 12:34:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: Webster WQSMD Controller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Hi all > >Does anyone have a copy of the manual for this QBUS SMD controller? > >We need to access the onboard diags/formatter. I believe there is an RS232 >port on board (but do not have the pinouts), but I think we could also >access it through the console. > >Thanks in anticipation > >Kevin I don't have a copy of the WQSMD manual, but there is a copy of the manual for the ESDI controller on my ftp site ftp://zane.brouhaha.com it might give you enough of a clue to access the onboard diags/formatter. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From palazzol at comcast.net Thu Aug 8 13:02:01 2002 From: palazzol at comcast.net (Frank Palazzolo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model III Message-ID: <3D5279D4.12293.520F1C30@localhost> Sellam, IIRC, it is possible to have the brightness adjusted so that you can see the raster, but the contrast adjusted so that you cannot see the text. If the contrast is the knob that is frozen or broken...then that might be the problem. Strange, these pots tend to get a little dirty over time, but I've never seen one get that bad off. Maybe they were exposed to some kind of contaminant. I've got 3 Model III's, and the worst problem I've had was a bad VRAM chip. Also, if you do have a scope, I remember there was a decent test point where the video data can be tapped on it's way to the video circuitry. That way you can tell if it's a computer problem or a video problem. Good luck, -Frank From mythtech at mac.com Thu Aug 8 13:20:01 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: Network cards Message-ID: >Ya, hi, I'm interested (Token Ring Buff) If you are a token ring buff... I still have the following available for the cost of shipping (from 07450, NJ). 11 - IBM, Auto 16/4 Token Ring, ISA, RJ45 DB9 08 - IBM, Auto 16/4 Token Ring, ISA, RJ45 13 - IBM, 16/4, ISA, RJ45 DB9 08 - IBM, 16/4 Token Ring, Microchannel, DB9 04 - IBM, 16/4, ISA, DB9 03 - IBM, Turbo 16/4 Token Ring, ISA, RJ45 DB9 01 - Intel, M#770400331 16/4, ISA, RJ45 DB9 01 - Madge, Smart 16/4 AT Plus Ringnode, ISA, RJ45 DB9 That should be correct (it's what I have saved as a text file that I printed my inventory sheets from... the actual boxes they are in are under a pile of monitors and I'm not digging them out unless someone wants something). The cards are untested. They were given to me in a large box of assorted parts pulled during a mass ethernet migration (and other upgrades, there were things like 2400 -14.4 modems as well). I was not involved in the pulling, so I can't say what the status was before they were pulled. I don't have any reason to believe they are bad, but I honestly have no clue about them. (All the parts I did want worked fine, so I would imagine the Token Ring cards work as well) I don't want ANY of them... so take one, take them all... just get them out of here. -chris From mythtech at mac.com Thu Aug 8 13:23:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: Thanks for the Lisa XL Info Message-ID: >Forgot who it was that alerted me to the XL on eBay for $20, but wanted to >say thanks as I won it for the $20. Ah... so you are the one that won it. I don't feel as bad about not having gotten there first, now that I know it at least went to someone that will give it a good home (and not some "dealer" that will strip it and try to sell the peices for $100's each) -chris From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Aug 8 14:26:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: Paging Tothwolf In-Reply-To: <3D51EF92.7080404@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Clayton Frank Helvey wrote: > > > Tried to send Tothwolf a message directly to the account at > > concentric.net and the system bounced it as 'user unknown': > > He's having some email troubles. He responded to me on the 6th, and > mentioned that he was only hooked up temporarily. He didn't go into any > details on why. Well, I'm still here. I donno why my ISP was bouncing mail, but it seems to have only been temporary. I will probably be a little slow at checking my mail over the next few weeks though. I'm still reworking my local network and systems, and will be doing some remodeling in another part of the house too. -Toth From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Aug 8 15:57:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: UnixPC 7300 --> 3b2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020808163953.34c7ab18@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:48 AM 8/8/02 -0700, you wrote: >On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > >> Hi. >> I'm looking at picking up an ATT 3b2 to complement my 7300. I know >> the 3b2 has a different CPU type (WE3102?) as opposed to the 7300's >> 68010. Are they binary-compatible? Specifically, can I use the same >> install and program media for both? >> >> Doc >> >> >> >No, completely different beasts... > >Peter Wallace Right. AND there's a whole series of different 3B2s. Joe From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Aug 8 17:36:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:35 2005 Subject: Network cards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, chris wrote: > 11 - IBM, Auto 16/4 Token Ring, ISA, RJ45 DB9 Could use say 5 of these > 13 - IBM, 16/4, ISA, RJ45 DB9 3 of these > 08 - IBM, 16/4 Token Ring, Microchannel, DB9 and 4 of these if possible. Here's my address: Patrick Finnegan 1600 1/2 N. 13th St. Lafayette, IN 47904 Let me know when you have shipping costs figured out and I'll send you a bank (cashiers effectivly) check. Thanks! -- Pat From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 8 18:54:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model III In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Aug 7, 2 01:29:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2893 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020808/e386749e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 8 18:54:50 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Dec TU-56 Question In-Reply-To: <020801c23ec8$fb0d4f50$3200a8c0@winnt> from "Christopher McNabb" at Aug 8, 2 05:29:15 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 765 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020808/fa4bbfda/attachment.ksh From swtpc6800 at attbi.com Thu Aug 8 19:44:00 2002 From: swtpc6800 at attbi.com (Michael Holley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Another HTML message! Re: SEMI4200 IC Message-ID: <001f01c23f3d$d664a430$9865fea9@downstairs> .TL ''Another HTML message! Re: SEMI4200 IC'' .DM PP .SP .SI 5 .. .PP If you are are going to send a formated text message, please use a classic format. .PP This message is formatted using an NROFF style text markup language. This markup language is way over 10 years old and should be allowed on the Classic Computer mail list. .PP The version I used was developed for the FLEX based 6800/6809 computers from the late 1970s and early 1980s. The documentation for the TSC Text Processor can be found here. .SP http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/TSC_PR/TSC_PR.htm .SP2 .CE 2 Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Aug 8 19:52:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Another HTML message! Re: SEMI4200 IC In-Reply-To: <001f01c23f3d$d664a430$9865fea9@downstairs> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, Michael Holley wrote: > If you are are going to send a formated > text message, please use a classic format. > .PP > This message is formatted using an NROFF style > text markup language. This markup language > is way over 10 years old and should be allowed > on the Classic Computer mail list. OH SHIT! HTML is now 10 years old! Does THAT mean that it will now be considered acceptable??!? From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Thu Aug 8 20:00:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Dec TU-56 Question References: Message-ID: <3D5313F6.443D4FD6@compsys.to> >Tony Duell wrote: > So do I. I often spend weeks repairing all the faults in a machine, and > then when I get it working, I rarely power it up again :-). Faultfinding > is fun -- it's like solving puzzles. Jerome Fine replies: Maybe that is why software can be even more fun - for those of us who enjoy the challenge. With software, there is never any end of enhancements. So after all the bugs are fixed, a program can still provide a great deal of enjoyment. And I even found a bug in RT-11 operating system software that is almost 20 years old. What is curious is that it was found when I was looking at the code and realized it would not function correctly the way it was written. In normal operation, the bug probably occurs so rarely that it can't even be duplicated. As a result, it probably gets chalked up to random radiation on the rare chance it does occur. But I certainly seem to be in the minority on the list which seems to feel that hardware is ..... Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Aug 8 20:16:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Network cards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ahh, crap. Didn't mean to send that to the list. Esp w/my address... :( -- Pat On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, chris wrote: From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Aug 8 20:35:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: FS: 150 MHz R4400 SGI Indigos! Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020808213459.363fe662@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> A friend of mine has two R4400 Indigos and some extra SGI odds and ends that he'd like to sell. The first system is a doozy, it's LOADED! The blue sled that he mentions lets you set the SCSI address without removing the drive from the system, unlike the standard black sleds. His name, E-mail address and location are at the bottom of the message. Here's the details of the systems: > >Also, for the post, here's what's left!! > > >1 Iris Indigo (CMNB003B) R4400 150Mhz workstation >Elan graphics (030-8058-006, 4 GE-7s) >384 MB ram >9 Gig hard drive on blue sled (SCSI ID settable) >Irix 6.5.3 installed (will include all passwords, change as you like) >10 Base T Tranceiver (These are adapters. They fit onto the output of the built in GIO-BUS AUI Ethernet card >and convert the AUI plug to an RJ-45 standard Ethernet style plug.) >Power cord > >1 Iris Indigo (CMNB003B) R4400 150Mhz workstation >XZ-24 graphics (030-8122-001, 2 GE-7s) Z buffer, 24 bit >Minimal problems with this machine, probably related to the memory >180 MB ram (some of questionable quality) >4 Gig hard drive on blue sled (SCSI ID settable) >Irix 6.5.3 installed (will include all passwords, change as you like) >10 Base T Tranceiver (same as above) >Power cord > > >1 Bootable external CD drive (Toshiba 3x, I think) >2 CD caddies >1 3? SCSI cable >1 Power cord > >2 Indigo Keyboards (9500801) >2 Indigo Mice (9150800) > >1 GDM-17E11 17" SGI graphite monitor >10? Sun 13W3 Cable >Power cord >Manual > >1 17" SGI Monitor (older style, not sure of the model number) >3? SGI 13W3 Cable >Power cord > >Extras: > >1 Active SCSI terminator >1 LG1 Graphics board >1 Power supply (broken, good for parts) >2 R4000 100Mhz CPUs >1 3? 13W3 Monitor cable >1 Lock bar >1 Floptical drive on black sled >8 21MB floptical disks >1 Extra empty black sled >1 Iris Indigo owners manual (still in orig. shrinkwrap) >1 Set Irix 4.5 >Extra memory of questionable quality >Odds and ends > >All are in working order with the exceptions noted. > >Shipping is out of Los Angeles ? 90046 > >Reply to: > >Lee Redmond > >Redmond4@pacbell.net From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Aug 8 20:38:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Network cards In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020808213944.5b671d1a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:15 PM 8/8/02 -0500, Pat wrote: >Ahh, crap. Didn't mean to send that to the list. Esp w/my address... :( WE know know you are, and we know where you live! :-) From tarsi at binhost.com Thu Aug 8 20:58:01 2002 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Anyone using their old Mac? In-Reply-To: <002301c23b0f$d44a69f0$6501a8c0@thedm> References: <002301c23b0f$d44a69f0$6501a8c0@thedm> Message-ID: <200208082057.54261.tarsi@binhost.com> > > >> 1. Connected the Apple II to the BBC Micro using the games socket on Speaking of Apples and networking, I now have my Apple //e booting off of my Quadra 360. Woo! :) Tarsi 210 ------------------------------------------------------------ Email: tarsi@binhost.com Homepage: http://tarsi.binhost.com You'll often find me online at The Forever Beyond, an all-ages talker. www.foreverbeyond.org Become a Curator! www.computershelter.org Need Hosting? www.binhost.com ------------------------------------------------------------ From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Thu Aug 8 21:00:00 2002 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Network cards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020808215650.00a3ae20@n.ml.org> I'll take the one madge. -John john@boff-net.dhs.org At 02:19 PM 8/8/02, you wrote: > >Ya, hi, I'm interested (Token Ring Buff) > >If you are a token ring buff... I still have the following available for >the cost of shipping (from 07450, NJ). > >11 - IBM, Auto 16/4 Token Ring, ISA, RJ45 DB9 > >08 - IBM, Auto 16/4 Token Ring, ISA, RJ45 > >13 - IBM, 16/4, ISA, RJ45 DB9 > >08 - IBM, 16/4 Token Ring, Microchannel, DB9 > >04 - IBM, 16/4, ISA, DB9 > >03 - IBM, Turbo 16/4 Token Ring, ISA, RJ45 DB9 > >01 - Intel, M#770400331 16/4, ISA, RJ45 DB9 > >01 - Madge, Smart 16/4 AT Plus Ringnode, ISA, RJ45 DB9 > > >That should be correct (it's what I have saved as a text file that I >printed my inventory sheets from... the actual boxes they are in are >under a pile of monitors and I'm not digging them out unless someone >wants something). > >The cards are untested. They were given to me in a large box of assorted >parts pulled during a mass ethernet migration (and other upgrades, there >were things like 2400 -14.4 modems as well). I was not involved in the >pulling, so I can't say what the status was before they were pulled. I >don't have any reason to believe they are bad, but I honestly have no >clue about them. (All the parts I did want worked fine, so I would >imagine the Token Ring cards work as well) > >I don't want ANY of them... so take one, take them all... just get them >out of here. > >-chris > ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Aug 8 21:46:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: UnixPC 7300 --> 3b2 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020808163953.34c7ab18@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, Joe wrote: > At 09:48 AM 8/8/02 -0700, you wrote: > >On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > >> Hi. > >> I'm looking at picking up an ATT 3b2 to complement my 7300. I know > >> the 3b2 has a different CPU type (WE3102?) as opposed to the 7300's > >> 68010. Are they binary-compatible? Specifically, can I use the same > >> install and program media for both? > >> > >No, completely different beasts... > > > >Peter Wallace > > Right. AND there's a whole series of different 3B2s. > > Joe The education never stops. I just got back to my hotel after having dinner at Mike McFadden's house and checking out his collection. The 3b2 in question is his, a -400, and it is a large beast indeed. We made a tentative deal, I think, but the 3b2-400 will not be flying home with me. I'm most likely coming up this fall, in a car next time. :) Checking out Mike's collection, meeting his family, andjust shooting the breeze made a great evening. Thanks again, Mike! Doc From mythtech at mac.com Thu Aug 8 23:12:01 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Anyone using their old Mac? Message-ID: >I now have my Apple //e booting off of my >Quadra 360. Quadra 360? Is that the not as talented version of the Quadra that can skate a 720? -chris From sloboyko at yahoo.com Thu Aug 8 23:43:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Check out the Workmanship... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020809044258.11009.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2044705867 What this is, is a Netronics COSMAC II in a BEAUTIFUL homemade case. I think it is of note that in antique radio, well made homebrew radios of the teens and 20's command good money, also. Ebay has been absolute crap recently; if this is a bad economy, someone needs to tell the GEEKS about it. There is, however, a nice PDP-11 system with everything - for those with really deep pockets. This one seems as though it is actually worth the money: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2044718660 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com From foo at siconic.com Fri Aug 9 02:35:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Check out the Workmanship... In-Reply-To: <20020809044258.11009.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, Loboyko Steve wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2044705867 > > What this is, is a Netronics COSMAC II in a BEAUTIFUL > homemade case. Very nice. Not worth $500 (the current high bid). > Ebay has been absolute crap recently; if this is a bad > economy, someone needs to tell the GEEKS about it. Absolute crap as in nothing is selling? I've been snatching up stuff for bargain prices. It seems nobody has money these days, at least for old video game stuff. I don't have money either but I'm taking advantage of the situation. This is the only time I like eBay. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cbajpai at attbi.com Fri Aug 9 06:08:00 2002 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Check out the Workmanship... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c23f94$bfddf7a0$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Sellam...I think your right, I've seen a lot of weakness in prices on a lot of things...(e.g. Commodore SuperPETS for $90), but certain items see to be the same price as they used to be, for example..Apple Lisa's still get $300-$350 Any other examples of price weaknesses due to this economy? Have Altair's come down in price? Only if I had money.... -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 7:35 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Check out the Workmanship... On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, Loboyko Steve wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2044705867 > > What this is, is a Netronics COSMAC II in a BEAUTIFUL > homemade case. Very nice. Not worth $500 (the current high bid). > Ebay has been absolute crap recently; if this is a bad > economy, someone needs to tell the GEEKS about it. Absolute crap as in nothing is selling? I've been snatching up stuff for bargain prices. It seems nobody has money these days, at least for old video game stuff. I don't have money either but I'm taking advantage of the situation. This is the only time I like eBay. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From phil+ccmp at ultimate.com Fri Aug 9 08:21:00 2002 From: phil+ccmp at ultimate.com (Phil's ccmp mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Stuff near Boston needing new homes Message-ID: <200208091320.g79DKAP5012169@ultimate.com> I have a variety of old computer stuff (hardware, docs) of various kinds (DEC, AT&T, Sun) that I'd like to find new homes for near Boston. For a complete and current list, see http://www.ultimate.com/phil/stuff/ PLEASE REPLY TO THE E-MAIL ADDRESS ON THE WEB PAGE!!! From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Fri Aug 9 11:43:00 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Check out the Workmanship... In-Reply-To: <000001c23f94$bfddf7a0$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <000101c23fc3$c6a749e0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> There does seem to be a minor eBay depression on most items. I snagged the first 16 issues of Byte for $20 the other day! That's far and away the lowest I've ever seen Byte #1-#16 go for and I've seen just the first issue sell for over $100 regularly. I haven't, however, seen any Altair systems on auction for weeks. I've been tracking these for the past 6+ months to monitor prices and I can't imagine that the next few to go on auction won't fetch a premium due to the pent up demand. Erik -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chandra Bajpai Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 4:06 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Check out the Workmanship... Sellam...I think your right, I've seen a lot of weakness in prices on a lot of things...(e.g. Commodore SuperPETS for $90), but certain items see to be the same price as they used to be, for example..Apple Lisa's still get $300-$350 Any other examples of price weaknesses due to this economy? Have Altair's come down in price? Only if I had money.... -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 7:35 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Check out the Workmanship... On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, Loboyko Steve wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2044705867 > > What this is, is a Netronics COSMAC II in a BEAUTIFUL > homemade case. Very nice. Not worth $500 (the current high bid). > Ebay has been absolute crap recently; if this is a bad > economy, someone needs to tell the GEEKS about it. Absolute crap as in nothing is selling? I've been snatching up stuff for bargain prices. It seems nobody has money these days, at least for old video game stuff. I don't have money either but I'm taking advantage of the situation. This is the only time I like eBay. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Aug 9 13:46:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Network cards In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020808213944.5b671d1a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, Joe wrote: > At 08:15 PM 8/8/02 -0500, Pat wrote: > >Ahh, crap. Didn't mean to send that to the list. Esp w/my address... :( > > WE know know you are, and we know where you live! :-) Dont worry, along with my other roommates, I have 'security measures'. Muahahahahah. -- Pat From foo at siconic.com Fri Aug 9 13:57:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Check out the Workmanship... In-Reply-To: <000001c23f94$bfddf7a0$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Aug 2002, Chandra Bajpai wrote: > Sellam...I think your right, I've seen a lot of weakness in prices on a > lot of things...(e.g. Commodore SuperPETS for $90), but certain items > see to be the same price as they used to be, for example..Apple Lisa's > still get $300-$350 Some stuff just has a certain cachet and doesn't go down. But in general it seems not many people are bidding as of late. A lot of stuff goes unsold or for unheard of prices. But don't tell anyone! I wouldn't want to create a bidding war while I'm having fun snatching up stuff for reasonable prices ;^) > Any other examples of price weaknesses due to this economy? Have > Altair's come down in price? I have not been able to sell a boxed (new) Sharp PC-5000 that uses bubble memory. You'd think someone would want to snatch this up considering how rare and cool they are. Then again, I offered it to the list before and there were no takers, so maybe I'm the only one that can appreciate it. Any offers? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Aug 9 14:00:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Check out the Workmanship... In-Reply-To: <000101c23fc3$c6a749e0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Aug 2002, Erik S. Klein wrote: > There does seem to be a minor eBay depression on most items. I snagged > the first 16 issues of Byte for $20 the other day! That's far and away > the lowest I've ever seen Byte #1-#16 go for and I've seen just the > first issue sell for over $100 regularly. Damn good deal by any measure. > I haven't, however, seen any Altair systems on auction for weeks. I've > been tracking these for the past 6+ months to monitor prices and I can't > imagine that the next few to go on auction won't fetch a premium due to > the pent up demand. That's exactly what's going on. People are holding onto their stuff until the geeks start making money again. That's what I'm recommending to people who come to me for advice on selling their stuff. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dan at ekoan.com Fri Aug 9 14:37:00 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Network cards In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20020808213944.5b671d1a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020809153120.0437ed90@enigma> At 01:45 PM 8/9/02 -0500, you wrote: >Dont worry, along with my other roommates, I have 'security measures'. >Muahahahahah. I can vouch for a significant amount of heavy iron in Pat's apartment, which could be used for some serious defensive (and offensive) activity. His place is also rather difficult to locate given only an address, so Pat's stash is relatively safe. Now if he'd only keep the Hewlett-Packard gear for me... Cheers, Dan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Aug 9 16:56:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: WTB: 8088 pod of Fluke 9010 MicroSystem Troubleshooter Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020809175801.10ff7c26@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> The title says it all. I'm looking for an 8088 pod for the Fluke 9010. I have some duplicate pods and I'll swap one of them or buy it outright. Joe From tarsi at binhost.com Fri Aug 9 17:12:01 2002 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: WTB: TRS-80 8" floppies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200208091711.46784.tarsi@binhost.com> I need boot and application software on 8" floppies for TRS-80 machines, models II, III, and IV. I have nothing right now. Contact me off-list if you can make me disks, let me know how much you would like for them. Thanks! Tarsi tarsi@binhost.com From tarsi at binhost.com Fri Aug 9 17:35:01 2002 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: RFD: List-member database In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200208091734.57096.tarsi@binhost.com> > So what do y'all think? Is it A Fun Thing To Do? Ideas about what > info we want/don't want? Volunteers? The site I run and that is almost complete somewhat does this. I encourage you all to sign up if you like. Commentary and critique are of course wanted. A map is an interesting idea, too. http://www.computershelter.org Tarsi 210 -- ------------------------------------------------------------ Email: tarsi@binhost.com Homepage: http://tarsi.binhost.com You'll often find me online at The Forever Beyond, an all-ages talker. www.foreverbeyond.org Become a Curator! www.computershelter.org Need Hosting? www.binhost.com ------------------------------------------------------------ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 9 18:41:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Dec TU-56 Question In-Reply-To: <3D5313F6.443D4FD6@compsys.to> from "Jerome H. Fine" at Aug 8, 2 08:59:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1325 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020809/902c0b5e/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Aug 9 19:31:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: WTB: TRS-80 8" floppies In-Reply-To: <200208091711.46784.tarsi@binhost.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Aug 2002, Tarsi wrote: > I need boot and application software on 8" floppies for TRS-80 machines, > models II, III, and IV. I have nothing right now. > Contact me off-list if you can make me disks, let me know how much you would > like for them. The models 2, 12 and 16 used 8" disks. In additon to Model 2 TRS-DOS (no relationship to TRS-DOS other than name), there were half a dozen mutually incompatible CP/M conversions for them, including Lifeboat, Pickles and Trout, etc. Models 1, 3, and 4 used 5.25". To use 8" with model 1, 3, or 4 requires aftermarket modifications. For the model 1, there were the Omicron, Parasitic Engineering, and Lobo expansion interfaces. Each had a mutually incompatible disk format, other than 8"SSSD CP/M. 8" for the 3 and 4 was VERY scarce, and GOOD LUCK finding one of THOSE disk controllers! From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Aug 9 19:58:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: WTB: TRS-80 8" floppies In-Reply-To: <200208091711.46784.tarsi@binhost.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Aug 2002, Tarsi wrote: > I need boot and application software on 8" floppies for TRS-80 machines, > models II, III, and IV. I have nothing right now. I have the boot/system disk for the model II, but I don't have any blank 8" disks. > Contact me off-list if you can make me disks, let me know how much you > would like for them. If you can find blank media, I'll duplicate the system disk for you. I haven't powered up my model II since around '96, but I imagine it still works :) I'll extend the offer to anyone else here on classiccmp who needs a system disk for the model II, just supply the blank media. Keep in mind, the TRS-80 model II used a special 8" disk that had the index hole in a nonstandard location. -Toth From foo at siconic.com Fri Aug 9 20:16:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: WTB: TRS-80 8" floppies In-Reply-To: <200208091711.46784.tarsi@binhost.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Aug 2002, Tarsi wrote: > I need boot and application software on 8" floppies for TRS-80 machines, > models II, III, and IV. I have nothing right now. The Models 3 and 4 used 5.25" disks, unless you have an 8" disk drive for them. I have system disks for the Model II, but no time to look for them (I used to have them handy but no longer). Sorry. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Aug 9 20:38:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: WTB: TRS-80 8" floppies In-Reply-To: References: <200208091711.46784.tarsi@binhost.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020809183708.03d40910@mail.zipcon.net> Are you sure about that? it was a standard SHugart drive in those beasts. and the II disks were useable in the 12 16 and 6000. At 08:06 PM 8/9/02 -0500, you wrote: >On Fri, 9 Aug 2002, Tarsi wrote: > > > I need boot and application software on 8" floppies for TRS-80 machines, > > models II, III, and IV. I have nothing right now. > >I have the boot/system disk for the model II, but I don't have any blank >8" disks. > > > Contact me off-list if you can make me disks, let me know how much you > > would like for them. > >If you can find blank media, I'll duplicate the system disk for you. I >haven't powered up my model II since around '96, but I imagine it still >works :) > >I'll extend the offer to anyone else here on classiccmp who needs a system >disk for the model II, just supply the blank media. Keep in mind, the >TRS-80 model II used a special 8" disk that had the index hole in a >nonstandard location. > >-Toth From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Aug 9 20:44:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: WTB: TRS-80 8" floppies In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020809183708.03d40910@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: > >TRS-80 model II used a special 8" disk that had the index hole in a > >nonstandard location. On Fri, 9 Aug 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > Are you sure about that? it was a standard SHugart drive in those > beasts. and the II disks were useable in the 12 16 and 6000. SS 8" disks have the index hole in a different location than where the index hole is on DS 8" disks. Not quite what I would call "nonstandard". From kenziem at sympatico.ca Fri Aug 9 21:24:01 2002 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Check out the Workmanship... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020810022247.EPYG13064.tomts23-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> On Friday 09 August 2002 06:56, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > I have not been able to sell a boxed (new) Sharp PC-5000 that uses > bubble memory. You'd think someone would want to snatch this up > considering how rare and cool they are. I have a used one and I couldn't give it away, same with the Apple II e, mac plus SE and CE. But then again this was posted to a local news group > Subject: WANTED - COMPUTER SYSTEMS > >A local Registered Charity is looking for Pentium III Computer >systems. These must contain at least a Floppy Disk Drive, 4GB Hard >Disk Drive, CD-ROM, Pentium III processor (no Celery or II's) and >64MB RAM. Components would be acceptable that meet these needs. I did get a KIM this week, but had to take a bag of QIC 80 tapes and 2 CISCO 1001 lan extenders with it. From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Aug 9 22:49:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Check out the Workmanship... References: <20020810022247.EPYG13064.tomts23-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <00dc01c24020$c71553b0$5d000240@oemcomputer> How come I never read about someone giving away nice classic's? If you still have the Sharp PC-5000 I'll pay the postage. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike" To: Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 9:23 PM Subject: Re: Check out the Workmanship... > On Friday 09 August 2002 06:56, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > I have not been able to sell a boxed (new) Sharp PC-5000 that uses > > bubble memory. You'd think someone would want to snatch this up > > considering how rare and cool they are. > > I have a used one and I couldn't give it away, same with the Apple II e, > mac plus SE and CE. > > But then again this was posted to a local news group > > > Subject: WANTED - COMPUTER SYSTEMS > > > >A local Registered Charity is looking for Pentium III Computer > >systems. These must contain at least a Floppy Disk Drive, 4GB Hard > >Disk Drive, CD-ROM, Pentium III processor (no Celery or II's) and > >64MB RAM. Components would be acceptable that meet these needs. > > > > I did get a KIM this week, but had to take a bag of QIC 80 tapes and 2 > CISCO 1001 lan extenders with it. > > > > From foo at siconic.com Fri Aug 9 22:53:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Check out the Workmanship... In-Reply-To: <20020810022247.EPYG13064.tomts23-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Aug 2002, Mike wrote: > On Friday 09 August 2002 06:56, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > I have not been able to sell a boxed (new) Sharp PC-5000 that uses > > bubble memory. You'd think someone would want to snatch this up > > considering how rare and cool they are. > > I have a used one and I couldn't give it away, same with the Apple II e, > mac plus SE and CE. The Sharp PC5000 is in a league way above ordinary Apple II's and Macs. The PC-5000 is definitely not ordinary. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From elmo at mminternet.com Fri Aug 9 23:50:00 2002 From: elmo at mminternet.com (elmo@mminternet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Free! PDP-11 Chassis & Eagle Drives Message-ID: <20020808060149.792EC109EB@mail.mminternet.com> I have an H960 rack with slides, a BA23 qbus backplane/ps, power control, and two Fujitsu Eagles, available in Los Angeles. The box is good. I know one of the eagles was working when decomissioned. The other is marked "trips breaker" - but I think it was repaired. The rack is missing the top cover. You pickup by LA airport. Rack is on casters. Gross weight ~300 lbs. I can provide a controller for the eagles. The rest is up to you. I am not on the list, so email me directly for info. Regards, Eliot From vcf at siconic.com Fri Aug 9 23:50:23 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Zenith Z-100 in Washington, D.C. metro area needs new home Message-ID: The Zenith Z-100 is a dual 8085/8086 S-100 bus-based system. Runs CP/M and MS-DOS. One is available in the Washington, D.C., area. Please contact original sender directly. Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 15:59:57 -0400 From: Paul Taibl Subject: Computer to donate I have a Zenith Z-100 combination keyboard/CPU, dual floppy drives, separate color monitor, all the manuals, software and some of the original packaging. Circa 1983 or 84. Any idea if there's a market or a good home for it? It resides in northern Virginia, outside Washington, DC. It's free, but I can't cover shipping costs. Thanks. Paul -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Aug 9 23:50:30 2002 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Atari VAX tapes.... References: <20020808050141.10747.qmail@web20501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00ce01c23f06$4a40ce70$01000001@cvendel> Hi, I know many former Atari employees frequent this mailing list. I am looking for any 9" tapes, TK's or any other media that may have come off of the Atari Vax's (numerous one's within various divisions) that I could examine to read the data from for historical use and archiving. Thanks. Curt From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Aug 9 23:50:43 2002 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: 9" Tape drive.... References: <000101c23fc3$c6a749e0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <04c101c23fc5$78795540$01000001@cvendel> Hi, A friend of mine is looking for a spare 9" tape drive, anyone have one for sale or free (just pay shipping) ??? Curt From vcf at siconic.com Fri Aug 9 23:50:55 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: FS: Amiga A2000 and Amiga A500 both loaded. (fwd) Message-ID: Just passing this along. I have no affiliation with the seller. Do not reply to me ;) Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 14:16:59 -0400 From: garyg To: vcf@vintage.org Subject: FS: Amiga A2000 and Amiga A500 both loaded. Do you know anyone who might want this great stuff? Amiga A2000: * Commodore A2000 SN CA1076987. * Commodore Model No. 1084-D Video Monitor SN: XT1074659 Nov/89. * Keyboard KeyTronic E03601EL-C. * Keyboard KKQ-E94YC for A2000, A2000HD and A2500. * Power Supply: UPS 30-V20P * Three (3) 2-button mouses. * All connectors included. Amiga A500: * Amiga A500 SN: 078259 with Impact Series II Amiga A500-HD+ * Amiga 1011 External Disk Drive SN XC0062232 Sept/90. * Power Supply: P/No 312503-01 PSM-500 * Power Supply: UPS 30-V20P * Commodore Color Monitor Model No. 1084S-P SN 129979, Sept/88. * Commodore B0032925 Mouse. Joystick (in original box) 500XJ EPYX by Konix. * All connectors included. Manuals: * GVP Impact Series II A500 HD User's Guide. * Intro to Amiga 500 (Commodore). * Hi Res Monitor with Stereo Output Model 1084S manual. * Amiga Basic (MS Basic for the Amiga) manual. * Systemsoftware Binders (2) for Amiga ( two large hardcover bonders with everything). * AmigaDOS, ARexx, Workbench 2.1Amiga Hard Drive plus software FS: Printers that work with Amiga: * Texas Instruments Microlaser plus * Star NX-2420 Rainbow Printer Signature Series with 2 unopened cartridges, manual and accessories. * Raven PR 2418 24-pin Multi-Mode Printer with cables, little used. Also have 5 huge boxes of commercial software of every description (educational, games, utilities, clipart, wordprocessors, paint, kids stuff, etc) for the Amiga that I am cataloguing (save me the time and buy it all with the above computers). Price: I don't know. Make me an offer for some or all. 905-628-8528 Hamilton, ON Canada -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From aek at spies.com Fri Aug 9 23:51:02 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Olivetti M20 boot prom dump? Message-ID: <200208082156.g78LuRpb003135@spies.com> Does anyone have access to an Olivetti M20 and a eprom programmer? I'd like to get copies of the Z8000 boot/io code from one. From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Aug 9 23:51:14 2002 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Check out the Workmanship... References: <20020809044258.11009.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006c01c23fae$58a8c4b0$01000001@cvendel> Wow, that really is some beautiful work, right down the lettering on the wood case. Its nice to see when someone is willing to spend that much time and care in crafting something like that for their system. The unit looks like it was well stored as the wood looks to be in excellent condition. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loboyko Steve" To: Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 12:42 AM Subject: Check out the Workmanship... > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2044705867 > > What this is, is a Netronics COSMAC II in a BEAUTIFUL > homemade case. > > I think it is of note that in antique radio, well made > homebrew radios of the teens and 20's command good > money, also. > > Ebay has been absolute crap recently; if this is a bad > economy, someone needs to tell the GEEKS about it. > There is, however, a nice PDP-11 system with > everything - for those with really deep pockets. This > one seems as though it is actually worth the money: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2044718660 > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs > http://www.hotjobs.com From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Aug 9 23:51:21 2002 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Check out the Workmanship... References: Message-ID: <007601c23fae$a3aa94c0$01000001@cvendel> Let me know when you start seeing Imsai 8080's at bargain basement prices ;-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 7:34 PM Subject: Re: Check out the Workmanship... > On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, Loboyko Steve wrote: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2044705867 > > > > What this is, is a Netronics COSMAC II in a BEAUTIFUL > > homemade case. > > Very nice. Not worth $500 (the current high bid). > > > Ebay has been absolute crap recently; if this is a bad > > economy, someone needs to tell the GEEKS about it. > > Absolute crap as in nothing is selling? I've been snatching up stuff for > bargain prices. It seems nobody has money these days, at least for old > video game stuff. I don't have money either but I'm taking advantage of > the situation. This is the only time I like eBay. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > From dglassma at barnard.edu Fri Aug 9 23:51:33 2002 From: dglassma at barnard.edu (Donald Glassman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Printer Wheels Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020809180644.00a2ed60@bc.barnard.columbia.edu> Dear Friends, I would be interested purchasing any DWP-210 printer wheels, but especially Venezia. Will pay $20 for a wheel. Kindly respond by e-mail. Thanks, Donald Glassman Barnard College Archivist From tarsi at binhost.com Sat Aug 10 00:53:00 2002 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: WTB: TRS-80 8" floppies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200208100052.31268.tarsi@binhost.com> > The models 2, 12 and 16 used 8" disks. My bad, you're absolutely right. I only gave them a precursory glance and should have looked better. The Model II I have has the Shugart 8" drive. Plus, it has the disk extender module that supplies another 3 8" drives for a total of 4 drives (2MB of space!). This all came with a table that the disk extender slides into and the console sits on top. The table is in TRS colours, so I assume it's a Radio Shack thing. The story behind this machine is that it was used by the city of Dallas, TX, for accounting for awhile, then sold to the Mason City Air Service, then given to the Pioneer museum. The museum director gave it to me because, as she said, although it might be a pioneer in the computer world, wagon trains didn't have Trash80s. :) Tarsi 210 -- ------------------------------------------------------------ Email: tarsi@binhost.com Homepage: http://tarsi.binhost.com You'll often find me online at The Forever Beyond, an all-ages talker. www.foreverbeyond.org Become a Curator! www.computershelter.org Need Hosting? www.binhost.com ------------------------------------------------------------ From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Aug 10 01:31:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: WTB: TRS-80 8" floppies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Aug 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Fri, 9 Aug 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > > > > > TRS-80 model II used a special 8" disk that had the index hole in a > > > nonstandard location. > > > > Are you sure about that? it was a standard SHugart drive in those > > beasts. and the II disks were useable in the 12 16 and 6000. > > SS 8" disks have the index hole in a different location than where the > index hole is on DS 8" disks. > > Not quite what I would call "nonstandard". Well, not quite nonstandard I suppose... The DS disks were always much easier to find in recent years though. -Toth From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Aug 10 02:20:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: WTB: TRS-80 8' floppies In-Reply-To: References: <200208091711.46784.tarsi@binhost.com> Message-ID: <34343.64.169.63.74.1028964009.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I'll extend the offer to anyone else here on classiccmp who needs a > system disk for the model II, just supply the blank media. Keep in > mind, the TRS-80 model II used a special 8" disk that had the index > hole in a nonstandard location. I'm fairly certain that the TRS-80 Model II uses plain old everyday run-of-the-mill vanilla single-sided 8-inch diskettes. Perhaps you at one time may have tried to use double-sided 8-inch diskettes, which have their index hold at a different location. Double-sided drives generally had two index sensors, but a double-sided diskette would not work in a single-sided drive. The TRS-80 Model II was shipped with single-sided drives, though it was capable of supporting double-sided and it wasn't uncommon for users to upgrade their drives. Later related models (12, 16, 16b, and 6000) used half-height drives, but I'm not sure whether the stock drives were single- or double-sided. Eric From vp at mcs.drexel.edu Sat Aug 10 02:36:01 2002 From: vp at mcs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: looking for: extended mass storage rom for hp 87 Message-ID: <200208100735.DAA11136@king.mcs.drexel.edu> James Sickles wrote: > I'm also looking for an HP Extended Mass Storage module (hp 00085-15013) > for the HP 85 (A/B). I'm trying to get an old disk drive (hp 9133 D) to > work with an HP 85 B. [...] If you have an HP 85B then you *need* the HP 85 version of the ROM, the HP-87 version will not work. This ROM is EXTREMELY rare, so don't bank on finding one. Its probably better to try to find an older drive (e.g. the HP 9134A/9135A hard drive) rather than trying to get your HP-85B to work with the newer drives. If however, you do find an EMS ROM, please let me know. I'd like to try to get a copy of the ROM image so that I can xfer it to an EPROM and then try to interface this to the HP-85 bus (non trivial since its 6V based). Best Regards **vp From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Aug 10 07:10:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Check out the Workmanship... References: <20020810022247.EPYG13064.tomts23-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <000001c24066$8c828100$0100000a@deepspacenine> "Mike" said: > I did get a KIM this week, but had to take a bag of QIC 80 tapes and 2 > CISCO 1001 lan extenders with it. A MOS Technology/Commodore KIM-1? Lucky you - I've been after a MOS KIM for ages. They're like the proverbial rocking horse droppings (or gold dust) over here in the UK. Same goes for the Synertek SYM-1. I think most of them ended up in dustbins when the Commodore 64/VIC20 came out... Can anyone with a spare KIM-1, SY-VIM-1, AIM-65 or SYM-1 please contact me? Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sat Aug 10 11:37:01 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:36 2005 Subject: Olivetti M20 boot prom dump? References: <200208082156.g78LuRpb003135@spies.com> Message-ID: <3D554085.4D4EBF74@gifford.co.uk> Al Kossow wrote: > Does anyone have access to an Olivetti M20 and a eprom programmer? No, but I'm looking for an M20! Anybody ever seen one? Or have one they'd like to trade? Oh, and I have two Z8000 manuals (if that'll help with understanding the boot PROM code): Z8000 Handbook by Martin L. Moore and the SGS Z8000 Microprocessor Family Databook, May 1984. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sat Aug 10 11:41:00 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Check out the Workmanship... References: <20020810022247.EPYG13064.tomts23-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> <000001c24066$8c828100$0100000a@deepspacenine> Message-ID: <3D554193.161A1E54@gifford.co.uk> Philip Pemberton wrote: > A MOS Technology/Commodore KIM-1? Lucky you - I've been after a MOS KIM for > ages. They're like the proverbial rocking horse droppings (or gold dust) > over here in the UK. Same goes for the Synertek SYM-1. Well, rare or not, I have both a KIM-1 and a SYM-1. No sign of the AIM-65, though. I've also got a 6800 development board, the Motorola MEK-D2. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Sat Aug 10 12:19:00 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Mannesman Tally 906 Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E8B@BUSH02> I need the room and no longer need this.. Mannesman Tally 906 Laser printer with twin A4 sheet feeder. Works, but poorly. Collection only, UK, W. Midlands. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact VT Merlin Communications Ltd IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Aug 10 13:40:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Fw: VAXstation 3100/76, 4000/VLC Desired? Message-ID: <002501c2409d$72966fe0$7e469280@y5f3q8> Found this a few minutes ago... replys to author, please... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Shirley" Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.os.vms Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 07:53 PM Subject: VAXstation 3100/76, 4000/VLC Desired? > Greetings. > > I may have an opportunity to grab a small number of VAXstation 3100/76 and > 4000/VLC boxes. I would have to pay for them, but probably not too much. I > am under orders from my wife not to acquire any more computers, but maybe I > can help them find good homes elsewhere. They are located in southern > California. > > Any interest in these things (my local DEC dealer was NOT interested)? > > Jeff. > > P.S. There are no "x" characters in my email address. > -- > Jeff Shirley > buckyx@mindspring.com > "Bill Gates is filthy rich, but that doesn't mean I want to be married to him." From cpg at aladdin.de Sat Aug 10 15:21:00 2002 From: cpg at aladdin.de (Christian Groessler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Olivetti M20 boot prom dump? Message-ID: <87ofcalbgd.fsf@gibbon.cnet.aladdin.de> On 08/08/2002 02:56:27 PM MST Al Kossow wrote: > >Does anyone have access to an Olivetti M20 and a eprom programmer? >I'd like to get copies of the Z8000 boot/io code from one. I have put one up on ftp://ftp.groessler.org/pub/chris/olivetti_m20/misc/bios/m20rom It displays "Bootstrap Loader Rev. 1.0" when the machine is turned on. Do you have some M20 related software/information? I'm always interested in that... regards, chris From kris at catonic.net Sat Aug 10 16:26:00 2002 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: New Mailing List: Xyplex Message-ID: Hi All! I've created a list `xyplex' on my list machine for the purpose of allowing those of us with Xyplex hardware to get together and help each other understand/rescue terminal servers and whatever else Xyplex made. It's a majordomo list, so kick a message to: mailto:majordomo@lists.uninterruptible.net with subscribe xyplex in the body. You'll get a confirmation message and then be added to the list. See you there! -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR TGIFreeBSD IM: 'KrisBSD' "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!" This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security From Fritz_Chwolka at t-online.de Sat Aug 10 16:38:00 2002 From: Fritz_Chwolka at t-online.de (Fritz Chwolka) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Olivetti M20 boot prom dump? In-Reply-To: <3D554085.4D4EBF74@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <17ddv4-0Y0HyKC@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> On Sat, 10 Aug 2002 17:34:14 +0100, John Honniball wrote: > >Al Kossow wrote: >> Does anyone have access to an Olivetti M20 and a eprom programmer? > maybee here are some useful informations ftp://ftp.groessler.org/pub/chris/olivetti_m20/ MfG. Fritz Chwolka >> collecting old computers just for fun << << at www.alterechner.de >> From cpg at aladdin.de Sat Aug 10 17:18:00 2002 From: cpg at aladdin.de (Christian Groessler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Olivetti M20 boot prom dump? Message-ID: <873ctmgxzp.fsf@gibbon.cnet.aladdin.de> On 08/10/2002 01:48:04 PM MST Al Kossow wrote: > >> Do you have some M20 related software/information? > >I've located a copy of CP/M for the Z8000, and may be getting >a set of 5" discs which would most likely be for the M20. Hey, that'd be cool. I was searching for CP/M 8000 for quite some time. I came to the conclusion that it newer existed (since there is a 8086 addon card for the M20 which can run CP/M86 and I finally thought that people mixed up that version with a native 8000 one). >A scanned copy of a (poor quality) copy of the CP/M 8000 >manual set is up at www.spies.com/aek/pdf/digitalResearch. I'm currently downloading it. The connection appears to be rather slow? regards, chris From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sat Aug 10 19:55:01 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Dec TU-56 Question References: Message-ID: <3D55B5A3.48418968@compsys.to> >Tony Duell wrote: > > Jerome Fine replies: > > Maybe that is why software can be even more fun - for those > > of us who enjoy the challenge. With software, there is never > > any end of enhancements. So after all the bugs are fixed, a > > program can still provide a great deal of enjoyment. > And you think this doesn't also apply to hardware? Any interesting > computer (heck, any interesting calculator as well) has some kind of > expansion bus. So there are always more interfaces to design and build :-) Jerome Fine replies: I just never thought about those aspects since I would never be able to do them in any case. Just shows what a lack of knowledge and understanding proves. > And there are internal hardware mods to try out too. But my impression was that the definition of hardware for a specific computer is a given. I would never even dream of attempting to modify the hardware for my PDP-11 so that it could do something different. Of course, not being able to even consider that does lower my horizon. In addition, I don't consider that limitation when I am dealing with an emulator. I have asked John Wilson to modify E11 to allow a number of items: (a) Be able to identify E11 via a PDP-11 instruction (b) Add 32 bit integer arithmetic - at least add and subtract (c) Add 64 bit integer arithmetic - at least add and subtract In addition, there already is the capability to add a "dll" (don't ask me exactly how is is done - and it is ONLY for the FULL version) which is able to directly access the memory of the PC via "emulated hardware registers" (addresses in the I/O page) using PDP-11 instructions. Doing that with a real PDP-11 would probably be very easy these days - just add a board that contains the required hardware - and with memory so inexpensive, it could use the same memory chips that the PC uses. > I guess that with software there are 2 main things you can do (apart from > use it!). You can fix origianl bugs. Or you can modify it to do > something (slightly?) different. Or even something very different, especially to add code which can do something very different. > With hardware there are _3_ main areas. Fix design bugs (and yes there > are plenty of those in some machines). Redesign bits to add nrew > features, etc. But you can also trace and fix component failures -- > circuits that should work correctly but don't because a transistor is no > longer a transistor, or whatever. There doesn't seem to be an equivalent > for that in software. If I thought about each hardware item, I am sure that an equivalent software item could be found. That might possibly be because the definition of hardware and software has become blurred due to firmware. Hardware on the outside sees a firmware change as a software mod. Software from the inside sees a firmware change as a hardware mod. I have a great example of an OLD bug in the firmware for the CQD 220/TM which was corrected over ten years ago. As for your last example, I think that a bug that is in the RT-11 operating system (been there for almost 20 years) could also be equivalent to the hardware difficulty you mention. In this case, the problem is almost impossible to duplicate, so it might even seem to be a random hardware failure - especially since the cause is unknown - and the fault which occurs could not easily be traced to the software bug which causes the problem. In that aspect, such intermittent problems are the most difficult to trace and find the cause. About the only real difference between hardware and software problems is the essential nature of what is software and hardware. Hardware can break in an individual manner and the problem would then be with just one computer. Software can also cause such problems, but only if there is a pre-existing bug. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Aug 10 20:44:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Sharp LT numbering Message-ID: <3D557B41.27216.1842009D@localhost> I acquired a little while back a Sharp PC-3000. I am very enamored of it and it's possibilities. Similar to the HP95 and will use the same memory card only with a more-manageable KB. In researching it I found it came out in 91/92 and was a follow-up to the Atari Portfolio. The UK company (DIP) that designed the Portfolio and this follow- up model, offered it to Atari, which had it's own problems at that time, who declined it and then Sharp snapped it up. Sellam gave info on a Sharp PC-5000 he was selling and Joe R. on a PC-7000. These model #'s make no sense at all as I believe both of these came out before the 3K. Anyone with any insight ? Or is it just that computer makers use no logical system for model #'s Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Aug 10 21:08:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: osborne executive disks Message-ID: Does anyone have some (preferally images of) Osborne Executive CP/M disks? Also, what format does it use, and is it possible to use an Osborne 1 boot disk to boot an Exec? Thanks for the help -- Pat From rhudson at cnonline.net Sat Aug 10 21:27:00 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Emulations under Linux Message-ID: <02081019264600.04518@sputnik> What emulations have you heard of under Linux. I think I heard about a copy of Bob Suptnik's PDP-11... -- Emulation - you can have more machines than Sellam, in much less space : ^ ) Ron. From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Aug 10 21:35:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Emulations under Linux In-Reply-To: <02081019264600.04518@sputnik> Message-ID: On Sat, 10 Aug 2002, Ron Hudson wrote: > > What emulations have you heard of under Linux. > > I think I heard about a copy of Bob Suptnik's PDP-11... I've done a little fooling around with simh under Linux. The PDP-11 seems to be pretty stable, and the VAX emulator is getting there. IIRC, Charon has a Linux beta, but I haven't tried it. Doc From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sat Aug 10 21:45:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Emulations under Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 10 Aug 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Sat, 10 Aug 2002, Ron Hudson wrote: > > What emulations have you heard of under Linux. > > > > I think I heard about a copy of Bob Suptnik's PDP-11... > > I've done a little fooling around with simh under Linux. The PDP-11 > seems to be pretty stable, and the VAX emulator is getting there. > IIRC, Charon has a Linux beta, but I haven't tried it. The VAX is /getting there?/ Hell, I run NetBSD/vax on it! I'm fairly certain that OpenVMS/VAX is also supported. It's not the fastest VAX in the world, but on a PIII/1GHz, it does rather well. I've no complaints with it, except for a lack of support for a network interface. -brian. From dittman at dittman.net Sat Aug 10 21:48:01 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Emulations under Linux In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Aug 10, 2002 09:34:40 PM Message-ID: <200208110245.g7B2j4a20215@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > What emulations have you heard of under Linux. > > > > I think I heard about a copy of Bob Suptnik's PDP-11... > > I've done a little fooling around with simh under Linux. The PDP-11 > seems to be pretty stable, and the VAX emulator is getting there. > IIRC, Charon has a Linux beta, but I haven't tried it. I find the VAX emulation in the latest simh to be pretty stable. The VAX emulation in the latest ts10 is also pretty stable, and has network support. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Aug 10 21:53:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Emulations under Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 10 Aug 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > > The VAX is /getting there?/ Hell, I run NetBSD/vax on it! I'm fairly > certain that OpenVMS/VAX is also supported. It's not the fastest VAX > in the world, but on a PIII/1GHz, it does rather well. I've no > complaints with it, except for a lack of support for a network > interface. The last time I tried the VAX emulator it pegged the CPU and left it at 100% on a 1.6GHz Athlon. To me, that means it ain't there yet. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Aug 10 21:58:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Emulations under Linux In-Reply-To: <200208110245.g7B2j4a20215@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 10 Aug 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > I find the VAX emulation in the latest simh to be pretty stable. > The VAX emulation in the latest ts10 is also pretty stable, and > has network support. VERY cool. Where is this wondrous creature? Doc From dittman at dittman.net Sat Aug 10 22:10:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Emulations under Linux In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Aug 10, 2002 09:57:26 PM Message-ID: <200208110307.g7B377i20304@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > I find the VAX emulation in the latest simh to be pretty stable. > > The VAX emulation in the latest ts10 is also pretty stable, and > > has network support. > > VERY cool. Where is this wondrous creature? ftp.firesword7.net in pub/ts10/develop. The network support has a couple of bugs, but I was able to get it working last time I tried. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Sat Aug 10 22:13:01 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Emulations under Linux In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Aug 10, 2002 09:53:01 PM Message-ID: <200208110309.g7B39ai20313@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > The VAX is /getting there?/ Hell, I run NetBSD/vax on it! I'm fairly > > certain that OpenVMS/VAX is also supported. It's not the fastest VAX > > in the world, but on a PIII/1GHz, it does rather well. I've no > > complaints with it, except for a lack of support for a network > > interface. > > The last time I tried the VAX emulator it pegged the CPU and left it > at 100% on a 1.6GHz Athlon. To me, that means it ain't there yet. The CPU gets pegged because the emulator doesn't detect the idle loop. To change this behavior would require the emulator to know about the operating system. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sat Aug 10 22:24:01 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Emulations under Linux References: <02081019264600.04518@sputnik> Message-ID: <3D55D8C7.64900CA5@compsys.to> >Ron Hudson wrote: > What emulations have you heard of under Linux. > I think I heard about a copy of Bob Suptnik's PDP-11... Jerome Fine replies: There is also a commercial version of Ersatz-11 for Linux. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From foo at siconic.com Sat Aug 10 22:59:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Emulations under Linux In-Reply-To: <02081019264600.04518@sputnik> Message-ID: On Sat, 10 Aug 2002, Ron Hudson wrote: > > What emulations have you heard of under Linux. > > I think I heard about a copy of Bob Suptnik's PDP-11... > > > -- Emulation - you can have more machines than Sellam, in much less space Mmmmmm, maybe. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Aug 10 23:24:01 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: osborne executive disks References: Message-ID: <002d01c240ee$ddb44c10$f743cd18@D73KSM11> > Does anyone have some (preferally images of) Osborne Executive CP/M disks? > Also, what format does it use, and is it possible to use an Osborne 1 boot > disk to boot an Exec? > > Thanks for the help > > -- Pat > I have the disks and can send the files to you via 22Disk, if you have that. I can also send you 22Disk if you need that as well. You will need a 360K floppy drive on a DOS PC to create a workable Osborne Exec disk using 22Disk. Format is SSDD, 40 tracks. Capacity depends on diskette type. My manual says OCC Disk = 200K, IBM = 160K, DEC = 180K. Don't think the Osborne 1 disk will work in an Exec. -W From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Aug 11 01:54:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Emulations under Linux In-Reply-To: <3D55D8C7.64900CA5@compsys.to> References: <02081019264600.04518@sputnik> <3D55D8C7.64900CA5@compsys.to> Message-ID: <36042.64.169.63.74.1029048824.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Jerome Fine replies: > There is also a commercial version of Ersatz-11 for Linux. With the recent release of Ersatz-11 V3.1, there is now a demo version for Linux as well. And the limits on the demo versions have been relaxed a bit. It's quite usable for hobby purposes. http://www.dbit.com/demo.html SIMH is very good, but E11 is a truly industrial-strength PDP-11 simulator. Of course, SIMH also simulates a lot of systems other than just PDP-11s, from DEC and from other manufacturers. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sun Aug 11 06:50:01 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Emulations under Linux References: <02081019264600.04518@sputnik> <3D55D8C7.64900CA5@compsys.to> <36042.64.169.63.74.1029048824.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3D564EA5.15E3159B@ccp.com> Have any of you played with UAE (amiga emulator) under Linux? Just wondering if it is worth the hassles. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Sun Aug 11 07:34:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Scored a PDP-11/24 Message-ID: <054801c24133$45964a10$3200a8c0@winnt> Yesterday I picked up a PDP-11/24 in Maryland. Here is what I know about this machine currently: CPU: PDP-11/24 Disks: 2 RL02's, 1 RA-80 Expansion box with M9400-YE, M9401 connectors I also got an RL02 data cartrided labeled 'RSX-11', but it appears to have suffered a head crash. From quapla at xs4all.nl Sun Aug 11 08:27:00 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: PDP 11/70, XXDP diagnostics & OT question Message-ID: <3D5664E6.B389F57B@xs4all.nl> Hello All, Well, finally I have my 11/70 fully running. The last problem I had was due to a faulty cable (wire?) in one of the address cables going to the address buffer of the MOS box. I can now boot XXDP from an RL02, but unfortunately, my overview of executable diagnostic routines is not covering the 11/70. Is there someone who has the names of the diags I can execute to validate the machine? I also tried to boot RT11 (5.05) but this does not come further than doing a few I/O's before the machne stops. I know it isn't supported, but if I'm not misinformed, it may run anyway? Another question, more or less OT, is there someone who kan help me with an Texas Instruments adapter/charger for a TI-59 (red led, magnetic card reader etc), preferable 220V, but 110V will do too. Thanks, Ed -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.groenenberg.net | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Kilometerheffing : De overheid '97 TL1000S | weet waar je bent geweest! From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sun Aug 11 08:40:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Emulations under Linux References: <02081019264600.04518@sputnik> <3D55D8C7.64900CA5@compsys.to> <36042.64.169.63.74.1029048824.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3D566917.4085816@compsys.to> >Eric Smith wrote: > > Jerome Fine replies: > > There is also a commercial version of Ersatz-11 for Linux. > With the recent release of Ersatz-11 V3.1, there is now a demo > version for Linux as well. And the limits on the demo versions > have been relaxed a bit. It's quite usable for hobby purposes. > http://www.dbit.com/demo.html > SIMH is very good, but E11 is a truly industrial-strength PDP-11 > simulator. Of course, SIMH also simulates a lot of systems other > than just PDP-11s, from DEC and from other manufacturers. Jerome Fine replies: I was having a senior moment. YES! You are correct. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Aug 11 09:01:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Emulations under Linux In-Reply-To: <3D564EA5.15E3159B@ccp.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Aug 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > Have any of you played with UAE (amiga emulator) under Linux? Just > wondering if it is worth the hassles. Yes, and yes. I pretty much stumble around in AmigaOS, but if you have a ROM image, it's stable and very configurable. I, of course, mostly use it to play games. Sound works well, and I understand serial networking does too. Doc From mbg at TheWorld.com Sun Aug 11 09:59:01 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: PDP 11/70, XXDP diagnostics & OT question Message-ID: <200208111459.KAA72594999@shell.TheWorld.com> >I also tried to boot RT11 (5.05) but this does not come further than >doing a few I/O's before the machne stops. I know it isn't supported, but >if I'm not misinformed, it may run anyway? Yes, it should run just fine. I suspect you still have some hardware issues... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From deano at rattie.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 11 10:09:00 2002 From: deano at rattie.demon.co.uk (Dean Calver) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Emulations under Linux References: Message-ID: <039a01c24149$01918fd0$2000a8c0@thunderbird> UAE is pretty much complete,with some forms of networking (I've used serial to an A500, but some people use TCPIP) and high colour (Picasso96) support. I've even had to use it in anger (converting a couple hundred IFF's to a PC format). Bye, Deano ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc Shipley" To: Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 3:00 PM Subject: Re: Emulations under Linux > On Sun, 11 Aug 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > > > Have any of you played with UAE (amiga emulator) under Linux? Just > > wondering if it is worth the hassles. > > Yes, and yes. I pretty much stumble around in AmigaOS, but if you > have a ROM image, it's stable and very configurable. I, of course, > mostly use it to play games. Sound works well, and I understand serial > networking does too. > > Doc > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 11 13:24:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Dec TU-56 Question In-Reply-To: <3D55B5A3.48418968@compsys.to> from "Jerome H. Fine" at Aug 10, 2 08:53:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 6902 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020811/1b242847/attachment.ksh From quapla at xs4all.nl Sun Aug 11 14:01:00 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: PDP 11/70, XXDP diagnostics & OT question References: <200208111459.KAA72594999@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <3D56B30A.CCEE3B07@xs4all.nl> That problem has been solved now. I had not enough memory in the system to boot the XM monitor. I assumed it was the SJ one, but alas.... Nice to see what 'show all' is showing on the screen :=) I also tried to boot RSX 11M 4.5 from the distribution kit, it boots, but only executes 1 redirect command and stops in MCR (cpu still runs). When I manually execute the 2nd 'red' command and execute the startup.cmd command file, it performs the other tasks. Of course, the first thing to do is to see what the autoconfigure job is saying, but it stop the machine completely after a few second. Ah well, first to run the diagnostics to see if the cpu is healthy. Ed Megan wrote: > > >I also tried to boot RT11 (5.05) but this does not come further than > >doing a few I/O's before the machne stops. I know it isn't supported, but > >if I'm not misinformed, it may run anyway? > > Yes, it should run just fine. I suspect you still have some > hardware issues... > -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.groenenberg.net | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Kilometerheffing : De overheid '97 TL1000S | weet waar je bent geweest! From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sun Aug 11 14:24:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: PDP 11/70, XXDP diagnostics & OT question References: <200208111459.KAA72594999@shell.TheWorld.com> <3D56B30A.CCEE3B07@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <3D56B992.1884D524@compsys.to> >The Wanderer wrote: > That problem has been solved now. I had not enough memory in the system to boot > the XM monitor. I assumed it was the SJ one, but alas.... > Nice to see what 'show all' is showing on the screen :=) Jerome Fine replies: I assume that you booted V5.05 of RT-11? I thought it would run RT11XM with less than 64 KBytes, but I guess not. If you have the RT11SJ monitor on the system disk, then the command: BOOT RT11SJ will boot the SJ monitor without changing the boot block program. If you want to change to an unmapped monitor, I suggest RT11FB instead of SJ. If you have the unmapped device driver on the system disk, then the command: COPY/BOOT SY:RT11FB.SYS SY: (substitute the actual physical device name like DU0: instead of SY:) will change the boot program for you. Then you can still boot RT11XM with the BOOT command. If you have any other question, please ask. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Aug 11 15:44:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Dec TU-56 Question References: Message-ID: <3D56CBA5.2040105@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: > Tobe honest, it would probably be easier to make a new processor from > scratch if you wanted to do something like this to the hardware. Just as, > I susepct, if you wanted to design an emulator for a ficticious > processor, then you wouls wnt to start by designing a clean, orthogonal, > instruction set. But it would be possible to start from an existing > 'machine' in either case. Not in all cases. Working on a homebrew FPGA 12/24 bit cpu I don't really have a base machine to work from. The current machine I am working on will not have a emulator but be rather debugged on-line. I do have a earlier similar CPU design but it was not clean as I liked but since I have a emulator written and mostly debugged hardware I can use this for software testing and debuging for the new machine. > But no real PDP11 has those instructions. So if you add them to a PDP11 > emulator, then the result is no longer a PDP11 emulator, in that there is > a sequence of instructions that behaves differently on the PDP11 and the > emulator. Just as if you wire up a 32 bit ALU and registers to a PDP11 > processor board, the resulting machine is no longer a true PDP11. No it would be just a PDP-11 with strange I/O board. While I have not looked at the PDP-11 instruction set in depth there does not seem to be room for more instructions. > > There have been all sorts of interefaces proposed and made over the years > to let one computer have access to the memory of another. People have > designed cards that appear as I/O ports to the 'master' system and act > as proper bus master on the other side (so they can request the bus from > another genuine processor on, say, a VME bus and then access the memory > and peripherals over there). Simpler ones just insist on being the only > master on the 'slave' side -- there have been many attempts to add ISA > slots to other machines in this way to allow the use of cheap ISA I/O > cards, for example. But really other than video or network stuff what is there? You are better off building your own card as ISA I/O sucks! > In the second case you'll find things like a 2N3904 transistor that's > open-circuit base-emitter, and which is therefore not a transistor at > all. Or a 10uF capacitor that behaves as though it has a 100 ohm resistor > in series with it, inside the can (this is what's mean by ESR -- > effective series resistance). The components are not what they claim to > be any more. If you rebuilt this cirucit with known-good components then > it would behave as originally intended. I really can't think of a > software equivalent of this. True, but data formats can change over time requiring software tweeks now and then. From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Sun Aug 11 16:04:01 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: PDP-11/24 won't boot Message-ID: <001d01c2417a$89749650$3200a8c0@winnt> Well, this PDP-11/24 I picked up yesterday doesn't appear to want to boot. All boards appear to be present (at least, going by the table under the lid) and in good shape physically. When I turn the keyswitch to 'LOCAL', the 'DC ON' light comes on and the 'RUN' light comes on for about 1/2 second. When I push the 'control' switch to 'BOOT', the Run light comes on or about 1/2 second, then goes out. Looking inside, there are three lights on the M7133 cpu board, labeled '0', '1', and 'CLK'. The '0' and '1' lights are on continuously, the 'CLK' light only comes on for the 1/2 second after power on, and while the 'control' switch is held in 'BOOT'. As usual, I have absolutely zero docs on this system, so any help would be appreciated. From rmurphy at itm-inst.com Sun Aug 11 16:52:00 2002 From: rmurphy at itm-inst.com (Rick Murphy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: PDP-11/24 won't boot In-Reply-To: <001d01c2417a$89749650$3200a8c0@winnt> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020811173634.00aa0b60@mail.itm-inst.com> At 05:03 PM 8/11/02 -0400, Christopher McNabb wrote: >Well, this PDP-11/24 I picked up yesterday doesn't appear to want to boot. > >All boards appear to be present (at least, going by the table under >the lid) >and in good shape physically. > >When I turn the keyswitch to 'LOCAL', the 'DC ON' light comes on and the >'RUN' light comes on for about 1/2 second. When I push the 'control' >switch >to 'BOOT', the Run light comes on or about 1/2 second, then goes out. >Looking inside, there are three lights on the M7133 cpu board, labeled >'0', >'1', and 'CLK'. The '0' and '1' lights are on continuously, the 'CLK' >light >only comes on for the 1/2 second after power on, and while the 'control' >switch is held in 'BOOT'. According to the 11/24 "Maintenance Card" CLK is the CPU clock indicator. The 0 and 1 LEDs are used by the Power-On diagnostics; ON/ON means that the processor test has begun but it may well be that the processor test never started. Is the M9312 installed? What happens if you hook up a terminal to the console port? Does it go into ODT mode the '@' prompt)? If so, you can run the diagnostics with '165006G' at the '@'. >As usual, I have absolutely zero docs on this system, so any help would be >appreciated. You're welcome to this maintenance card if it's of use. -Rick From paulrsm at buckeye-express.com Sun Aug 11 19:42:00 2002 From: paulrsm at buckeye-express.com (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: BYTE review of Olivetti M20 References: <20020811170001.21735.6224.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3D570576.2B21C23D@buckeye-express.com> > Do you have some M20 related software/information? I'm always > interested in that... I came across a BYTE review of the Docutel/Olivetti M20 on page 188 of the June 1983 issue. Four pages of text would not take long for me to scan and OCR. The pictures, while pretty, are not detailed enough for any technical information although the motherboard photograph is good enough to let you identify it. Let me know if anyone wants this done. -- Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA From blacklord at telstra.com Sun Aug 11 20:24:00 2002 From: blacklord at telstra.com (blacklord) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model III Message-ID: <1ff7601fa89f.1fa89f1ff760@bigpond.com> Hi Sellam, > Now I know why stuff like TRS-80s and C64s were so derided back in the > day: the shit just don't last! Most of the TRS-80's here have started suffering from bit rot, but out of the 40 or so C= machines I have, only 1 has a problem (fried CIA). > > On the other hand, I've rarely met an Apple ][ that didn't boot. > Coincidence? You be the judge. > I have two Apple II's - one works, one doesn't - 50% failure rate! In fairness though, I've had more failures with C64 power supplies than I care to remember - but the 64's themselves have been pretty tough. cheers, Lance ---------------- Powered by telstra.com From mew_list at earthlink.net Sun Aug 11 20:25:12 2002 From: mew_list at earthlink.net (mew_list@earthlink.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: MICRO-11 disks Message-ID: I found a box of RX50s this weekend labeled MICRO-11(M-11) MAINT RX50. PUTR does not seem to read them. Anyone know what they are? --Mitch From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Sun Aug 11 20:31:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model III References: <1ff7601fa89f.1fa89f1ff760@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <006c01c2419f$ebe14610$3200a8c0@winnt> From: "blacklord" > In fairness though, I've had more failures with C64 power supplies than > I care to remember - but the 64's themselves have been pretty tough. Oh yeah. I 'fondly' remember chipping the potting material out of C64 power supplies to replace the fuse that was encased in epoxy. From mhscc at canada.com Sun Aug 11 20:37:00 2002 From: mhscc at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Sharp LT numbering Message-ID: <000501c241a0$fe6ca120$5b4a3dcf@msed03> To assist you in finding Sharp's logic, if any, I have a PC-1421 (handheld) which dates from 1984. I also have a PC-5000 (not NIB like Sellam's, but with more goodies :), which is apparently a year older (but somewhat larger; maybe they went by size? :) mike ------Original Message-------- From: "Lawrence Walker" Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 20:44:49 -0500 Subject: Sharp LT numbering I acquired a little while back a Sharp PC-3000. I am very enamored of it and it's possibilities. Similar to the HP95 and will use the same memory card only with a more-manageable KB. In researching it I found it came out in 91/92 and was a follow-up to the Atari Portfolio. The UK company (DIP) that designed the Portfolio and this follow- up model, offered it to Atari, which had it's own problems at that time, who declined it and then Sharp snapped it up. Sellam gave info on a Sharp PC-5000 he was selling and Joe R. on a PC-7000. These model #'s make no sense at all as I believe both of these came out before the 3K. Anyone with any insight ? Or is it just that computer makers use no logical system for model #'s Lawrence From blacklord at telstra.com Sun Aug 11 22:12:01 2002 From: blacklord at telstra.com (blacklord) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Check out the Workmanship... Message-ID: <205867201c74.201c74205867@bigpond.com> Erik, > There does seem to be a minor eBay depression on most items. I > snaggedthe first 16 issues of Byte for $20 the other day! That's > far and away > the lowest I've ever seen Byte #1-#16 go for and I've seen just the > first issue sell for over $100 regularly. I'm not so sure - I've recently started selling off a lot of my duplicate Commodore equipment & books - for example, I've got SAMS 128 Assembly Language Guide (that I paid $29.95 for back in '87) currently sitting at $73. Most of my other C= stuff has been going high as well - I sold 23 VIC20 cartridges (no boxes or instructions) for $103 recently & 18 C64 carts for $81. On the other hand, the HP85 I sold a month ago went for $20, whereas the one I sold 12 months ago went for over $200. What I am noticing is that the 8 bit Commodore era stuff & Amigas are holding (or increasing their prices) whereas the earlier stuff (that most people on this list generally collect) is not pulling the prices. There are a couple of Digital VAX machines on eBay Oz (vintage) that are not moving at all. Tastes change & I find that many of my generation (late 30's) are wanting to relive their "childhood" so to speak - & that means Commodores etc. Avg price on eBay Oz for a C64 is around $40 at the moment. More depending on what's added in with it. I've got some odd Intellivision II bits & pieces that I'm gonna try next :-) cheers, Lance ---------------- Powered by telstra.com From dan at ekoan.com Sun Aug 11 22:18:01 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Wanted: Spare parts for Teletype model 43 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020811190538.03ba0590@enigma> Hello, I picked up a Teletype model 43 terminal at a hamfest this weekend. It needs a new plastic bar that separates the incoming from the outgoing paper as well as a new ribbon. I'd also like to get a manual for it, although it appears to be a pretty straightforward piece of machinery. Any recommendations on places to go for spare parts? Dan From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Aug 12 01:17:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: MICRO-11 disks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I found a box of RX50s this weekend labeled MICRO-11(M-11) MAINT RX50. PUTR >does not seem to read them. Anyone know what they are? If I was to hazard a guess, I'd say XXDP floppies, however, I thought that PUTR can read those. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Aug 12 05:59:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Wanted: Spare parts for Teletype model 43 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020811190538.03ba0590@enigma> Message-ID: <000d01c241ee$f8d92f00$0100000a@deepspacenine> "Dan Veeneman" said: > I picked up a Teletype model 43 terminal at a hamfest this > weekend. It needs a new plastic bar that separates the > incoming from the outgoing paper as well as a new ribbon. Can't help with the plastic bar, but if the ribbon is an endless loop type ribbon, you can usually pop off the plastic cover and a quick spray of WD40 will restore it to usability. If it's a single-run ribbon, you can't do this. This is only intended as a stopgap measure until you find a new ribbon. I've used this trick on an Epson LX-80 and managed to get a few more weeks out of the ribbon (the local office supply store had a three week leadtime for a new ribbon). Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Aug 12 09:56:00 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: TI-59 question In-Reply-To: <20020811170001.21735.6224.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Ed asked, >Another question, more or less OT, is there someone who kan help me with >an >Texas Instruments adapter/charger for a TI-59 (red led, magnetic card >reader etc), >preferable 220V, but 110V will do too. > >Thanks, > >Ed Somewhere in my closet - I think - is a TI-59 in need of repair (display problems, really bad keybounce problems, ni-cads need replacing). It has at least a 110V adaptor and a 12V adaptor, and *possibly* a spare 110V adaptor (I think I ordered the spare when the cable on the original got very flaky, then repaired the cable.) Let me know if this is the closest/best help you can find. - Mark From marvin at rain.org Mon Aug 12 10:45:00 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: Apollo Keyboard and Mouse Message-ID: <3D57D7DE.709E5B16@rain.org> Apollo Keyboard w/ Logitech 3-button Mouse - $5.00 plus shipping for 6 pounds from zip code 93105. Email me if interested. From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Aug 12 10:47:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: QBus boards on eBay - LSI-11/2, 11/03 CPUs Message-ID: Hey, There are a couple of boxes of boards on eBay that look interesting. Several PDP CPU boards, MOS RAM, etc. No cables or cab kits AFAICT. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2045702233 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2045702595 Wish I could afford 'em. Doc From quapla at xs4all.nl Mon Aug 12 12:04:00 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:37 2005 Subject: TI-59 question References: Message-ID: <3D57E924.CA101B10@xs4all.nl> Hello Mark, If you want to depart with the described items, I can surely use them. Some parts of the calculator are good for spares like the pack, the reader and the housing. How much do you want for it? Thanks, Ed Mark Tapley wrote: > > Ed asked, > > >Another question, more or less OT, is there someone who kan help me with > >an > >Texas Instruments adapter/charger for a TI-59 (red led, magnetic card > >reader etc), > >preferable 220V, but 110V will do too. > > > >Thanks, > > > >Ed > > Somewhere in my closet - I think - is a TI-59 in need of repair (display > problems, really bad keybounce problems, ni-cads need replacing). It has at > least a 110V adaptor and a 12V adaptor, and *possibly* a spare 110V adaptor > (I think I ordered the spare when the cable on the original got very flaky, > then repaired the cable.) Let me know if this is the closest/best help you > can find. > - Mark -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.groenenberg.net | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Kilometerheffing : De overheid '97 TL1000S | weet waar je bent geweest! From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Aug 12 12:19:00 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: Dec TU-56 Question In-Reply-To: <20020812170001.29582.41851.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Tony said, regarding design defects/component failures: >...If you rebuilt this cirucit with known-good components then >it would behave as originally intended. I really can't think of a >software equivalent of this. Relying on an external library - whose functionality changes, with an OS upgrade or some such. It's not an exact parallel, of course. Better software design (and keeping more of the functionality inside the code you write) can mitigate the likelihood of this happening to some extent. And of course, it won't happen as long as *none* of the software involved (including the OS) gets "upgraded". - Mark From kevin at ps8.co.uk Mon Aug 12 14:20:00 2002 From: kevin at ps8.co.uk (Kevin Murrell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: Fujitsu Eagle M2351 Message-ID: I am trying to prepare an Eagle in an 11/73. I have a Webster WQSMD controller and can now get into the firmware. (By the way it's the same as the WQESD controller!) I am unsure about some of the drive specification the controller needs to know about ;) Can anyone help on the following - the values in [] are what I am trying Cylinders [842] Heads [20] Full Sectors per track [46] Short sectors [0] Unit size is offered at 77367 When formating the drive it counts cylinders from 0 to 842 when writing headers and then says Format Complete. It then starts writing data and hangs with the repeating message Block : 46 sector not found Any thoughts? Kevin From stanb at dial.pipex.com Mon Aug 12 14:52:01 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: TI-59 question In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 12 Aug 2002 09:55:19 CDT." Message-ID: <200208121754.SAA09512@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Mark Tapley said: > Ed asked, > > >Another question, more or less OT, is there someone who kan help me with > >an > >Texas Instruments adapter/charger for a TI-59 (red led, magnetic card > >reader etc), > >preferable 220V, but 110V will do too. > > > >Thanks, > > > >Ed > > Somewhere in my closet - I think - is a TI-59 in need of repair (display > problems, really bad keybounce problems, ni-cads need replacing). It has at > least a 110V adaptor and a 12V adaptor, and *possibly* a spare 110V adaptor > (I think I ordered the spare when the cable on the original got very flaky, > then repaired the cable.) Let me know if this is the closest/best help you > can find. Failing that, if you can find the right connector (possibly from another TI calc PSU) the TI-59 requires 6.2V 200mA AC. I always wanted a TI-59, but I have to make do with a -58... Hardware info is available at: http://xgistor.ath.cx -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 12 15:02:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: MICRO-11 disks Message-ID: Hmm, possibly some type of RX50 maintenance stuff.. e.g. head alignment etc. floppies? Only a guess... _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From sipke at wxs.nl Mon Aug 12 18:47:00 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: TI-59 question References: <200208121754.SAA09512@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <008c01c2425a$8a659c40$030101ac@boll.casema.net> More specifically at: http://xgistor.ath.cx/ti59.htm The diagram on this page shows that you can use any adaptor that can deliver 6.2 volts at 200ma AC will do.The rectifier section is on the calc so polarity is not an issue.... However getting the right connector could be a problem Sipke de Wal -------------------------------------- main page: http://xgistor.ath.cx -------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan Barr" To: Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 7:54 PM Subject: Re: TI-59 question > Hi, > > Mark Tapley said: > > > Ed asked, > > > > >Another question, more or less OT, is there someone who kan help me with > > >an > > >Texas Instruments adapter/charger for a TI-59 (red led, magnetic card > > >reader etc), > > >preferable 220V, but 110V will do too. > > > > > >Thanks, > > > > > >Ed > > > > Somewhere in my closet - I think - is a TI-59 in need of repair (display > > problems, really bad keybounce problems, ni-cads need replacing). It has at > > least a 110V adaptor and a 12V adaptor, and *possibly* a spare 110V adaptor > > (I think I ordered the spare when the cable on the original got very flaky, > > then repaired the cable.) Let me know if this is the closest/best help you > > can find. > > Failing that, if you can find the right connector (possibly from another > TI calc PSU) the TI-59 requires 6.2V 200mA AC. > > I always wanted a TI-59, but I have to make do with a -58... > > Hardware info is available at: http://xgistor.ath.cx > > -- > Cheers, > Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com > > The future was never like this! > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 12 19:06:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: Dec TU-56 Question In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Aug 12, 2 12:18:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 848 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020812/6ee1f2b1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 12 19:06:31 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: Fujitsu Eagle M2351 In-Reply-To: from "Kevin Murrell" at Aug 12, 2 08:19:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 904 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020812/819697e3/attachment.ksh From dan at ekoan.com Mon Aug 12 20:08:01 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: Wanted: User Reference Manual for LSI ADM 5 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020812210721.04763b50@enigma> Hello, I recently picked up a Lear Siegler ADM 5 terminal and, like most of my acquisitions, it did not come with any manuals. Does anyone know of a User Reference Manual for this terminal in electronic form? I'd also settle for a paper copy if anyone has one they'd like to duplicate. Hardware/Service manuals would also be gratefully accepted. Cheers, Dan From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Mon Aug 12 20:10:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: Dec TU-56 Question References: Message-ID: <3D585C4C.BE6FDBB3@compsys.to> >Tony Duell wrote: > In one sense it is. It would be possible to modify a PDP11 and add (say) > transcendental functions (SIN, COS, TAN, etc) to the floating point > coprocessor (yes, I do realise this is not at all a trivial modification, > but it's certainly possible). But the result would probably not be called > a PDP11. Certainly if I modified a PDP11 to have 32 bit registers and > ALU, then the result wouldn't be a PDP11. Jerome Fine replies: The answer I am giving is NOT practical in general, but for specific cases can be helpful. First, I was not ever suggesting that the basic underlying hardware registers be modified when I mentioned 32/64 bit integer arithmetic. Rather that existing registers/memory be used in a manner which could still hold the 32/64 bit results - and then the only change would be that a single instruction within the "PDP-11" code be used to replace multiple instructions. Exactly the same thing could be done within a current "real" PDP-11 to implement what "seems" to be that capability as is done with "impaired" PDP-11 CPUs such as an 11/03 which do NOT implement some of the instructions that more intelligent CPUs have such as the 11/23 or the 11/73. In that case, a TRAP SUBROUTINE handles the missing instruction and it is emulated, at of course an even higher overhead as opposed to inline code or a normal subroutine call. That approach with a "real" PDP-11 IS worth while when the feature is used extensively since even calling a subroutine has overhead. The saving over inline code is often worth the extra overhead. HOWEVER, when an emulator is being used, it is possible to "implement" a different solution. Rather than using a TRAP SUBROUTINE, it is possible to actually have our cake and eat it at the same time. The emulator can be "instructed" to recognize the "new instruction" and because that level of implementation is MUCH more efficient and much faster, there is much more benefit. I could provide other examples, but this one is simple and clear-cut. Either the method is acceptable or it is not. The key is that ONLY what a TRAP SUBROUTINE can do is allowed - nothing more. > But I feel the same restriction applies to emulators too. A PDP11 > emulator has to do what a real PDP11 would do. If you start adding extra > instructions, then it's no longer emulating a PDP11. It's emulating an > enhanced processor that was based on the PDP11. Which is exactly what > hardware mods would give you. I agree. But I still suggest that under an emulator, the approach I am suggesting can often be useful. I agree that it would need to be backed up with the equivalent code that a TRAP SUBROUTINE would use with real PDP-11 systems. > Tobe honest, it would probably be easier to make a new processor from > scratch if you wanted to do something like this to the hardware. Just as, > I susepct, if you wanted to design an emulator for a ficticious > processor, then you wouls wnt to start by designing a clean, orthogonal, > instruction set. But it would be possible to start from an existing > 'machine' in either case. Now that seems interesting - at least for hardware. Is it relatively that easy these days to implement a PDP-11 instruction set and all the interrupts? I know that at least two companies have done that. QED is one and Osprey might be another. > > In addition, I don't consider that limitation when I am dealing > > with an emulator. I have asked John Wilson to modify E11 > > to allow a number of items: > > (a) Be able to identify E11 via a PDP-11 instruction > OK, that's reasonable, because you could identify some later models of > PDP11 in that way IIRC. YES! There is an instruction which puts the model number in R0. > > (b) Add 32 bit integer arithmetic - at least add and subtract > > (c) Add 64 bit integer arithmetic - at least add and subtract > But no real PDP11 has those instructions. So if you add them to a PDP11 > emulator, then the result is no longer a PDP11 emulator, in that there is > a sequence of instructions that behaves differently on the PDP11 and the > emulator. Just as if you wire up a 32 bit ALU and registers to a PDP11 > processor board, the resulting machine is no longer a true PDP11. Well I don't completely agree. The FPU on the 11/73 may allow for not only faster implementation of floating point instructions, but also for extra instructions. Just as the CIS instruction set is done. PLUS, the 11/44 has something called WCS - if I remember correctly. I suspect that a "true" or real PDP-11 is not completely defined. In addition, it should (I have no idea if it is easy or even practicable) be possible to allow extra instructions by adding extra hardware that is just an extra board. I agree that all of the above is totally academic unless I have the opportunity to work with either SIMH code or have the information about the interface required by Ersatz-11 since I will NEVER be doing this in hardware. > > In addition, there already is the capability to add a "dll" (don't > > ask me exactly how is is done - and it is ONLY for the FULL > > version) which is able to directly access the memory of the PC > > via "emulated hardware registers" (addresses in the I/O page) > > using PDP-11 instructions. Doing that with a real PDP-11 > > would probably be very easy these days - just add a board > > that contains the required hardware - and with memory so > > inexpensive, it could use the same memory chips that the PC > > uses. > There have been all sorts of interefaces proposed and made over the years > to let one computer have access to the memory of another. People have > designed cards that appear as I/O ports to the 'master' system and act > as proper bus master on the other side (so they can request the bus from > another genuine processor on, say, a VME bus and then access the memory > and peripherals over there). Simpler ones just insist on being the only > master on the 'slave' side -- there have been many attempts to add ISA > slots to other machines in this way to allow the use of cheap ISA I/O > cards, for example. Well, for the PDP-11 Qbus systems, a IDE controller has been proposed that would emulate MSCP just like the CMD host adapters do with SCSI drives. In addition, there are co-processors available that can do vector instructions and place the results in shared Qbus memory. One board I did work with was called a SKYMNK. It did FFTs and other such stuff like vector arithmetic. > > > I guess that with software there are 2 main things you can do (apart from > > > use it!). You can fix origianl bugs. Or you can modify it to do > > > something (slightly?) different. > > Or even something very different, especially to add code which can > > do something very different. > That tends to get called 'doing a total redesign' when it's done to > hardware :-) I agree with you there as well as far a hardware is concerned. But with software, such changes tend to get done MUCH more gradually. Many bugs can be fixed with only one instruction and most require only a few instructions. In software, the primary effort is to identify the bug - correcting it is often almost trivial. Adding a few features rarely requires a redesign. I suspect that in hardware, finding the bug is ONLY the first step. And while in some cases changing the firmware is a simple solution and only an EPROM needs an update (these days only a EEPROM), if actual hardware needs to be changed, I guess you fellows who are capable with a soldering iron don't have too much of a problem. > > As for your last example, I think that a bug that is in the RT-11 > > operating system (been there for almost 20 years) could also be > > equivalent to the hardware difficulty you mention. In this case, > Not really. The software bug was always there. It was a design defect > really. We have those in hardware too, and some of them occur _very_ > infrequently. In many respects, I agree that hardware and software are very similar. > But software doesn't fail with time (OK, the media it's stored on can > fail, but then you can restore from a backup and have a perfect copy > again). If something worked right once, then it will always work right. > If there's a design bug, then that bug will be there until it's cured. And if the programmer tells the program to do the wrong thing, then the computer will do that as well - and every time. A long time ago, the definition I was told of a computer (A SPEEDY MORON) does not seem to have changed. > This is not true of hardware. You can have a circuit which was correctly > designed, and which worked perfectly for 10 years (say). And then a > component fails. It stops working. You have to find that faulty component > and replace it. That does seem to be the one big difference. While hardware can be built to detect its own failures, presently that is very unusual. > The differece (at the hardware level) between the 2 sorts of bugs is > really that in the first case all the components are still what they > claim to be. A resistor with brown, black, orange bands is still a 10k > resistor. A 2N3904 transistor is still an NPN transistor meeting the > characteristics given in the data sheet. A 74LS00 is still a quad 2-input > NAND gate. It's just that the way they are connected together produces a > circuit that doesn't do what the designer intended. That's a design bug. Very similar in software. > In the second case you'll find things like a 2N3904 transistor that's > open-circuit base-emitter, and which is therefore not a transistor at > all. Or a 10uF capacitor that behaves as though it has a 100 ohm resistor > in series with it, inside the can (this is what's mean by ESR -- > effective series resistance). The components are not what they claim to > be any more. If you rebuilt this cirucit with known-good components then > it would behave as originally intended. I really can't think of a > software equivalent of this. But that is why there is a difference between hardware and software, just as you stated above. You are entirely correct. > > In that aspect, such intermittent problems are the most difficult > > to trace and find the cause. > That is certainly true of hardware problems also. Faults that 'stay put' > when you are looking for them are much easier to find :-) More to the point, if it is possible to discover what triggers the fault and repeat the trigger successfully, then with software my personal experience is that 95% of the time, maybe even 99% of the time the solution is extremely simple, often as little as a few instructions, sometimes even one instruction. It can take as short a time as a few seconds to fix - and often the actual documentation as the what was done takes much longer. I could provide a number of examples, but individual examples don't show anything - it is the average that counts. But I am totally unable to solve hardware problems, so it would be interesting to know how long the average hardware fix takes? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Mon Aug 12 20:14:01 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: QBus boards on eBay - LSI-11/2, 11/03 CPUs References: Message-ID: <3D585D10.CAB4BF8D@compsys.to> >Doc Shipley wrote: > There are a couple of boxes of boards on eBay that look interesting. > Several PDP CPU boards, MOS RAM, etc. No cables or cab kits AFAICT. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2045702233 > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2045702595 > Wish I could afford 'em. Jerome Fine replies: If anyone takes the "Buy It Now" price, I personally feel they are paying TOO much. If the boards were local, I would bid and just pick them up. Otherwise, I doubt that they will be bid up very high, but what do I know? I probably have at least twice that number of similar boards and I doubt if I can get even 5% of the "Buy It Now" price for all of them. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Aug 12 20:24:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: QBus boards on eBay - LSI-11/2, 11/03 CPUs In-Reply-To: <3D585D10.CAB4BF8D@compsys.to> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Aug 2002, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > >Doc Shipley wrote: > > > There are a couple of boxes of boards on eBay that look interesting. > > Several PDP CPU boards, MOS RAM, etc. No cables or cab kits AFAICT. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2045702233 > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2045702595 > > Wish I could afford 'em. > > Jerome Fine replies: > > If anyone takes the "Buy It Now" price, I personally feel > they are paying TOO much. If the boards were local, I > would bid and just pick them up. Ack! I wouldn't pay the BIN on those even if I had it to spare! But like you, I expect they'll be had for a fraction of that. It still won't be me. Doc From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Aug 12 20:56:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: Dec TU-56 Question References: <3D585C4C.BE6FDBB3@compsys.to> Message-ID: <3D58663F.6010409@jetnet.ab.ca> Jerome H. Fine wrote: > But I am totally unable to solve hardware problems, so it would > be interesting to know how long the average hardware fix takes? It really depends on A) How fast can you be without a computer or radio or whatever. B) Finding the bug and getting parts to repair. I would suspect software and hardware bugs take the same magnitude of time to find.It is when you have software interacating with hardware the fun begins are you are now not sure what works. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Aug 12 22:08:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: [movie] On Guard! The Story of SAGE In-Reply-To: <3D58663F.6010409@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: I just noticed this up at www.archive.org. It's a short film from 1956 put out by IBM about SAGE. This is a great little film with a nice overview of SAGE and the modular computers used on B-52 bombers. The following links point to different formats of the same film. I was able to play the MPEG-1 file under Quicktime on Mac OS X without any problems. MPEG-1 (128.1MB): http://ftp.archive.org/movies/vcd/06855.mpg AVI (38.8MB): http://ftp.archive.org/movies/divx/06855.avi -brian. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Mon Aug 12 22:57:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: Dec TU-56 Question References: <3D585C4C.BE6FDBB3@compsys.to> <3D58663F.6010409@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3D588355.6297EF01@compsys.to> >Ben Franchuk wrote: > >Jerome H. Fine wrote: > > But I am totally unable to solve hardware problems, so it would > > be interesting to know how long the average hardware fix takes? > It really depends on A) How fast can you be without a computer or > radio or whatever. B) Finding the bug and getting parts to repair. > I would suspect software and hardware bugs take the same magnitude > of time to find.It is when you have software interacating with > hardware the fun begins are you are now not sure what works. Jerome Fine replies: Fortunately I can't remember having that problem very often. When I first started to program computers, I found it difficult to find software bugs. While it is still difficult, I now realize that hardware rarely fails. Although I have found a one or two bugs that were caused by a hardware failure during more than 40 years of working with and designing software, I initially made the mistake of blaming hardware some of the time. I could not accept that my programs could actually have a bug. Finally - through much experience - I realized that 99.9999999% of the time, it was a bug in my program code that was causing the problem. Two examples of hardware might help: (a) I once found a sticky bit - defined as a bit which was always ONE when it was supposed to be ONE, but sometimes a ONE when it was supposed to be zero. The quick solution was to be sure to place an instruction at that location which required that the sticky bit be a ONE - that way, the program always worked. (b) Although I never did see the exact problem, back in 1990 (or around that year) I bought one of the first CQD 220/TM host adapters. When I attempted to read a block into a user address in high memory (RT11XM for you fellows who can understand) that overlapped a 1/4 MByte (or 256 KByte) boundary, the system crashed. I finally isolated the problem by forcing the device driver to step through the code - after which using hardware ODT I found that the firmware in the host adapter had done a wraparound when the DMA address had reached the 1/4 MByte boundary and started to place the rest of the read into addresses at zero - thereby destroying the interrupt vectors in low physical memory. What astounded me was that CMD admitted the error two days later when they were able to duplicate it in their labs (it helped to know exactly what to look for). Within two weeks, they had sent a new version of the 2 EPROMs used in the firmware for the host adapter. What was interesting was that Dialog had the same problem with the early versions of the SQ706A which I was testing as well and Dialog in Canada refused to admit there was a problem. I suspect that I should have asked CMD for a free host adapter for identifying the problem - after all, it must have been the same with a microVAX II as well. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Mon Aug 12 23:37:01 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: TI-59 question In-Reply-To: <200208121754.SAA09512@citadel.metropolis.local> References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020813003545.0077a168@pop1.epm.net.co> At 06:54 PM 8/12/02 +0100, you wrote: >Failing that, if you can find the right connector (possibly from another >TI calc PSU) the TI-59 requires 6.2V 200mA AC. > >I always wanted a TI-59, but I have to make do with a -58... You can probably build something with epoxy/rubber and a couple of pins off a female DB-25 connector.. A word of caution: if you are going to build a charger with a 6.3V transformer, keep in mind that the chargers that TI provided for this and other calculators had very high secondary winding resistances; I just measured mine, and it is 16 ohms. I have no idea about the reactance, though. The high resistance in effect limits the maximum current across the rectifier diodes and battery. I suspect that if you connect a < 3ohm transformer something might burn. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From paulrsm at buckeye-express.com Tue Aug 13 00:32:00 2002 From: paulrsm at buckeye-express.com (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: Magic Sac for Atari ST References: <20020812170001.29582.41851.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3D589B00.9B2AFF8F@buckeye-express.com> My Magic Sac 1 cartridge for the Atari ST has two Macintosh ROMs inside: 342-0220-A and 342-0221-A. Does anyone know what Macintosh they go to? Does anyone know how to poke the ST so I can read the ROMs in ST address space? I am kinda hoping that these are for the original Macintosh because I've wanted a ROM dump of that computer for a long time. -- Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Aug 13 01:13:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: RL02 woes Message-ID: I'm having some problems getting my RL02 drive to play nice with my RLV12 in my VAXstation 3200. I've got the drive connected to the controller with a piece of 40pin ribbon cable from an IDE drive, since I have no 'offical' cable to connect the two (or a cab kit for the controller). The drive is set to ID 3, because I don't have a '0' Ready light cover. Also, I don't have a terminator to use. Right now, the drive has its 'FAULT' light on, including when the VAX is powered up and at its monitor. A 'SHOW QBUS' shows the adaptor at address 774400 (I think), and a 'SHOW RLV12' shows no devices attached to the controller. Previously, when I connected a clock signal to the drive's clock in, which was anywhere near 4.2MHz, the fault light would go off. Now, I can't get the light to go off at all, and I'm suspecting the controller. This cable is the second one I've tried, and both cables have had all 40pins going straight through. I also have tried reversing the cable to ensure I had pin 1 the same on both ends, to no avail (could that have nuked the interface on either the controller or drive?). Any suggestions or help would be appreciated. -- Pat From quapla at xs4all.nl Tue Aug 13 02:12:00 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (quapla@xs4all.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: RL02 woes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <25148.192.18.42.11.1029222694.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> You have to put the terminator in. Without it, the fault light will stay on. > Ready light cover. Also, I don't have a terminator to use. > > Right now, the drive has its 'FAULT' light on, including when the VAX > is powered up and at its monitor. A 'SHOW QBUS' shows the adaptor at > address 774400 (I think), and a 'SHOW RLV12' shows no devices attached > to the controller. Ed From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Aug 13 02:16:01 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: Cosmac 50-pin connector question References: <02081019264600.04518@sputnik> <3D55D8C7.64900CA5@compsys.to> <36042.64.169.63.74.1029048824.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <006801c24299$39c5f7a0$f743cd18@D73KSM11> There's a 50 pin connector on the back of my Cosmac Development System, using a 17-16-17 layout. Does anyone know if this is an MFM drive connector? -W From bqt at update.uu.se Tue Aug 13 03:00:01 2002 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: PDP 11/70, XXDP diagnostics & OT question Message-ID: <2.1-743138-378-A-OEWW@smtpserver.swip.net> The Wanderer wrote: > I also tried to boot RSX 11M 4.5 from the distribution kit, it boots, > but only > executes 1 redirect command and stops in MCR (cpu still runs). This is typically a clock problem. You don't have a working clock in your system. /Johnny ---- This mail was sent from a Palm. From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Aug 13 03:09:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: Magic Sac for Atari ST In-Reply-To: <3D589B00.9B2AFF8F@buckeye-express.com> References: <20020812170001.29582.41851.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <3D589B00.9B2AFF8F@buckeye-express.com> Message-ID: <38580.64.169.63.74.1029226131.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > My Magic Sac 1 cartridge for the Atari ST has two > Macintosh ROMs inside: 342-0220-A and 342-0221-A. > Does anyone know what Macintosh they go to? I can answer that from memory. :-) They're the original Macintosh ROMs (AKA "64K ROM", referring to the ROM size -- the "128K ROM" is never found in a Macintosh 128). There's a handy table of ROM part numbers at: http://homepage2.nifty.com/tamaru/Tips/ROM/rom.html From cpg at aladdin.de Tue Aug 13 05:24:00 2002 From: cpg at aladdin.de (Christian Groessler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: BYTE review of Olivetti M20 Message-ID: <87sn1jcb2i.fsf@gibbon.cnet.aladdin.de> On 08/11/2002 08:46:46 PM AST "Paul R. Santa-Maria" wrote: > >> Do you have some M20 related software/information? I'm always >> interested in that... > >I came across a BYTE review of the Docutel/Olivetti M20 >on page 188 of the June 1983 issue. Four pages of >text would not take long for me to scan and OCR. > >The pictures, while pretty, are not detailed enough >for any technical information although the motherboard >photograph is good enough to let you identify it. > >Let me know if anyone wants this done. I'd be interested. regards, chris From cbajpai at attbi.com Tue Aug 13 06:22:00 2002 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: Magic Sac for Atari ST In-Reply-To: <3D589B00.9B2AFF8F@buckeye-express.com> Message-ID: <000401c242bb$65849320$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> I'm pretty sure that they are Mac Plus ROMS (not the Mac 128). -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Paul R. Santa-Maria Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 1:37 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Magic Sac for Atari ST My Magic Sac 1 cartridge for the Atari ST has two Macintosh ROMs inside: 342-0220-A and 342-0221-A. Does anyone know what Macintosh they go to? Does anyone know how to poke the ST so I can read the ROMs in ST address space? I am kinda hoping that these are for the original Macintosh because I've wanted a ROM dump of that computer for a long time. -- Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA From aek at spies.com Tue Aug 13 09:15:01 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: Olivetti M20 boot prom dump? Message-ID: <200208102320.g7ANKon0032545@spies.com> I came to the conclusion that it newer existed (since there is a 8086 addon card for the M20 which can run CP/M86 and I finally thought that people mixed up that version with a native 8000 one). -- It exists. The port was actually done by Zilog of CP/M-68K, including converting the utilities written in PLH to C, then given to DR to distribute. If you look at the BIOS listings in the manual, all of the code is written by people at Zilog. From rmeenaks at worldnet.att.net Tue Aug 13 09:15:46 2002 From: rmeenaks at worldnet.att.net (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: test Message-ID: <000f01c240d3$8ea74840$c7dc580c@zeus> this is a test.... Ram From steve at aussieflicks.com.au Tue Aug 13 09:16:04 2002 From: steve at aussieflicks.com.au (Steve Dillon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: free Tektronix 7603 manual for shipping costs Message-ID: <001101c240ee$31085920$0101a8c0@CO3027253b> I just found your offer of the manual for the 7603 oscilloscope. I presume by now its gone? Steve Dillon Aussie Flicks Video Productions Pty Ltd steve@aussieflicks.com.au www.aussieflicks.com.au (02) 9545 4181 From vcf at siconic.com Tue Aug 13 09:16:16 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: Multisync monitor prior to 1981? Message-ID: Does anyone know of a multisync display that was in use before 1981? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From wm65805 at alltel.net Tue Aug 13 09:16:24 2002 From: wm65805 at alltel.net (BILL MALCOLM) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: Working CP/M 8000 Message-ID: <3D56DF03.FB2956E6@alltel.net> I found a site for the CP/M 8000 docs : SO: in winter of 2002-3 I may work on building cp/m 8000 from the PL/I src of the 8080 version. bill .. From bill_r at inebraska.com Tue Aug 13 09:16:42 2002 From: bill_r at inebraska.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: Help needed with Heathkit boot disks Message-ID: Can someone on the list help this guy out? His e-mail address is: "Robin England" . Thanks. >Hi Bill > >I've just seen a post you made to a forum in '97 about the Heathkit H-89 computer and bootable disks. I have two of these machines (well H-90's) and one original HDOS bootable system diskette (hard sector). Back in 1992 when I acquired these machines, I successfully made hard-sectored disks out of soft-sectored ones by punching the sector holes using the original disk as a template - amazingly this worked fine! > >Anyway - my question is, assuming that you were able to duplicate the disks, do you know anyone who has a bootable CP/M (or any other O/S for that matter) disk that they would be happy to copy for me, as I only have HDOS & Benton Harbor BASIC on my disks! I can supply the floppy disks for this purpose as I have recently found a limited supply of unused hard-sectored disks! > >Sorry to email you out of the blue, but there are very few people who know anything about these machines! > >cheers >Robin > -Bill Richman (bill_r@inetnebr.com) Web Page: http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer Simulator, Fun with Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities. From aek at spies.com Tue Aug 13 09:17:00 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: Olivetti M20 boot prom dump? In-Reply-To: <87ofcalbgd.fsf@gibbon.cnet.aladdin.de> Message-ID: <200208102048.g7AKm4dV021812@spies.com> > Do you have some M20 related software/information? I've located a copy of CP/M for the Z8000, and may be getting a set of 5" discs which would most likely be for the M20. A scanned copy of a (poor quality) copy of the CP/M 8000 manual set is up at www.spies.com/aek/pdf/digitalResearch. From NOcmcnabbSPAM at 4mcnabb.net Tue Aug 13 09:17:11 2002 From: NOcmcnabbSPAM at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: Switch settings for KT-24 (M7134) Message-ID: <001301c2418e$4b940af0$3200a8c0@winnt> I'm looking for the dip switch settings for a KT-24 (M7134) Unibus Map/Boot card. Thanks. From bill at cs.scranton.edu Tue Aug 13 09:17:25 2002 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: Old Sun Equipment Available Message-ID: <20020812140134.K19859-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu> I have some old Sun Sparc systems that need to find a new home (preferably not the dumpster in the parking lot). Is there any one here who might be interested. I have SparcStation 1's I have SparcServer 330's and even a Sun4/something that was in a 7' high rack and includes a 9 track tape drive (which worked quite well the last time I used it.) All of this stuff is at the University of Scranton and would need to be picked up. It's free, although I wouldn't turn down some PDP or VAX trinkets (expcept async boards :-) in exchange. Please reply directly to me as I am currently not reading the list. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From nerdware at ctgonline.org Tue Aug 13 09:17:43 2002 From: nerdware at ctgonline.org (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: PING Sellam Message-ID: <3D58306C.19802.144EA825@localhost> Sellam, I'm still not sure the DNS/email routing thing got worked out... did you get the second copy of my original email that I sent? I had changed my return address...even though they both point ultimately to the same server, the laidbak address goes through some fairly heavy spam filtering that kills a lot of legit email. The ctgonline server isn't quite so locked down. Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From bstater at emi-inc.net Tue Aug 13 09:17:56 2002 From: bstater at emi-inc.net (EMI) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:38 2005 Subject: MicroAnalyst 2000 Message-ID: <000801c24279$052ce6e0$2402a8c0@esoffice> Ethan, In the archive I found a discussion where you mention a Northwest Instruments MicroAnalyst 2000. Do you still have it or anything about it. I've got a chassis, two state cards, one timing card and probes; but no software or PC interface. Bart Stater -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020813/6fd17f4c/attachment.html From florit at unixville.com Tue Aug 13 09:18:10 2002 From: florit at unixville.com (Louis Florit) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: FG: Dec Rainbow Symphony and 86/80 CPM Message-ID: For grabs: Dec Rainbow Symphony Suite, with 5 1/4 floppies, and a 86/80 CPM disk. Very nice condition. Examine pictures at http://www.timexsinclair.org/miscimages/08092002_DECRainbow-Symphony/ This was rescued from a near dumpster experience. It didn't get picked up by a previously interested individual, I'm offering on here before I circle file it. All I ask is you cover shipping costs. I am in Miami, FL. Thanks. L From bill at cs.scranton.edu Tue Aug 13 09:18:24 2002 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: Old Sun Equipment Available Message-ID: <20020813094120.Y22691-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu> I have some old Sun Sparc systems that need to find a new home (preferably not the dumpster in the parking lot). Is there any one here who might be interested. I have SparcStation 1's I have SparcServer 330's and even a Sun4/something that was in a 7' high rack and includes a 9 track tape drive (which worked quite well the last time I used it.) A SparcPrinter (sometimes it has a problem picking up paper, but this is usually just dirty rollers. I have a spare toner cartridge and drum for this.) All of this stuff is at the University of Scranton and would need to be picked up. It's free, although I wouldn't turn down some PDP or VAX trinkets (expcept async boards :-) in exchange. Please reply directly to me. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From marvin at rain.org Tue Aug 13 10:16:00 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: Z8000 was Re: Olivetti M20 boot prom dump? References: <200208102048.g7AKm4dV021812@spies.com> Message-ID: <3D5922A4.96118567@rain.org> What is the relation between the Z8000 and M20? I have the PDS Z8000 and a number of disks, but no manuals to speak of except the Z8000 Development Module Hardware Reference Manual (looks more like a user manual.) Al Kossow wrote: > > > Do you have some M20 related software/information? > > I've located a copy of CP/M for the Z8000, and may be getting > a set of 5" discs which would most likely be for the M20. > > A scanned copy of a (poor quality) copy of the CP/M 8000 > manual set is up at www.spies.com/aek/pdf/digitalResearch. From sipke at wxs.nl Tue Aug 13 11:20:01 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: TI-59 question References: <3.0.2.32.20020813003545.0077a168@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <00b601c242e5$49cfe2e0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Fair enough .... That would still leave about 8 volts after double-phase rectification to charge the nicads with. (thru a 4.7ohm internal resistor) Never operate the TI59 without the nicads! when the machine is turned on the excess voltage will be dumpt into them so the -vbat will be kept at -3.7 Volts! To operate it without nicads might toast the machine !!!! Sipke de Wal ------------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx ------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Murillo" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 6:35 AM Subject: Re: TI-59 question > At 06:54 PM 8/12/02 +0100, you wrote: > >Failing that, if you can find the right connector (possibly from another > >TI calc PSU) the TI-59 requires 6.2V 200mA AC. > > > >I always wanted a TI-59, but I have to make do with a -58... > > You can probably build something with epoxy/rubber and a couple > of pins off a female DB-25 connector.. > > A word of caution: if you are going to build a charger with a 6.3V > transformer, keep in mind that the chargers that TI provided > for this and other calculators had very high secondary winding > resistances; I just measured mine, and it is 16 ohms. I have > no idea about the reactance, though. > > The high resistance in effect limits the maximum current across > the rectifier diodes and battery. I suspect that if you connect > a < 3ohm transformer something might burn. > > carlos. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org > From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Aug 13 11:22:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: RL02 woes In-Reply-To: <25148.192.18.42.11.1029222694.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Heh, OK, I was hoping that wasn't the problem... Does anyone have a spare terminator or a pinout so I can build one? Thanks! -- Pat On Tue, 13 Aug 2002 quapla@xs4all.nl wrote: > > You have to put the terminator in. Without it, the fault light will stay > on. > > > Ready light cover. Also, I don't have a terminator to use. > > > > Right now, the drive has its 'FAULT' light on, including when the VAX > > is powered up and at its monitor. A 'SHOW QBUS' shows the adaptor at > > address 774400 (I think), and a 'SHOW RLV12' shows no devices attached > > to the controller. > > > Ed > > > From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Aug 13 11:51:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: RL02 woes Message-ID: > >Heh, OK, I was hoping that wasn't the problem... > >Does anyone have a spare terminator or a pinout so I can build one? I've not looked through in detail, but the printsets and manuals can be found in: http://archives.decdocs.org/printsets/RL02/ and http://archives.decdocs.org/printsets/RL%20info/ Antonio From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Aug 13 12:04:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: RL02 woes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > >Heh, OK, I was hoping that wasn't the problem... > > > >Does anyone have a spare terminator or a pinout so I can build one? > > I've not looked through in detail, but the printsets and manuals > can be found in: > > http://archives.decdocs.org/printsets/RL02/ > > and > > http://archives.decdocs.org/printsets/RL%20info/ Yeah, I have looked through all the printsets from those, and I'm pretty sure that they don't contain the terminator pinout. -- Pat From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Aug 13 14:29:00 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: TI-59 question In-Reply-To: <20020813170001.39205.8202.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Ed, >If you want to depart with the described items, I can surely use them. Some >parts of the calculator are good for spares like the pack, the reader and the >housing. Oops. I apologise, Ed, I was very imprecise with what I wrote. I meant most of the description as background to explain why I *might* have a spare 110V power supply. I'll search for the power supply tonight; if I can find it, postage to you (Nederlands?) will be all I'll want for it. The rest of the gear, I still hope to return to service one day. Admittedly I'm not making very good progress - there are two printers in the queue ahead of it and they have been there the better part of a year now - but I'd still like to keep it for now, at least. If I do decide to get rid of it, you get first dibs. Sipke, *great* site. I also have some user-documentation-type stuff for the machine. Let me know if you need scans or whatever. Anybody know a good source for tabbed AA size ni-cads to replace the ones in the battery pack? - Mark From sipke at wxs.nl Tue Aug 13 15:39:01 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: TI-59 question References: Message-ID: <00e601c24309$71def900$030101ac@boll.casema.net> What documentation have you got ? Sipke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Tapley" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 8:41 PM Subject: Re: TI-59 question dibs. > > Sipke, *great* site. I also have some user-documentation-type stuff for the > machine. Let me know if you need scans or whatever. > From kris at catonic.net Tue Aug 13 15:41:00 2002 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: TI-59 question In-Reply-To: <00b601c242e5$49cfe2e0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Sipke de Wal wrote: > Never operate the TI59 without the nicads! when > the machine is turned on the excess voltage > will be dumpt into them so the -vbat will be kept at > -3.7 Volts! To operate it without nicads might > toast the machine !!!! s/might/will Did it by accident once. Luckily, about a month later, a TI59 (the previous one was a 58) showed up at a Boeing company auction for $5 on the print cradle. Nicad in the print cradle was toast though. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR TGIFreeBSD IM: 'KrisBSD' "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!" This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security From msell at ontimesupport.com Tue Aug 13 17:46:00 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: TU-58 tapes for VAX 11/750 and 11/730 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020813174109.03287540@127.0.0.1> Guys, I have a few console, diagnostic, and patch tapes for the 11/750 and 11/730 on TU-58. I just recently got my 11/750 working, but I don't have a console tape that will boot it properly, though. What emulators are used to communicate with the VAX to simulate the TU-58? Anything for DOS, or is everything Linux based? I remember a discussion a little while ago about TU-58 tapes and a possible archive site, has that been set up? If so - when I can get the tapes archived I can submit these for inclusion. I'd also like to snarf a console tape archive or two as well... : ) Thanks! - Matt Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020813/27d46e74/attachment.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 13 18:48:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: Dec TU-56 Question In-Reply-To: <3D585C4C.BE6FDBB3@compsys.to> from "Jerome H. Fine" at Aug 12, 2 09:09:32 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 9113 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020813/7c8e7afe/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 13 18:49:49 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: Dec TU-56 Question In-Reply-To: <3D588355.6297EF01@compsys.to> from "Jerome H. Fine" at Aug 12, 2 11:56:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1869 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020813/5748c176/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 13 18:49:58 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: RL02 woes In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Finnegan" at Aug 13, 2 01:12:12 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 742 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020813/6b48d297/attachment.ksh From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Aug 13 19:21:00 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: Dec TU-56 Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > I would suspect software and hardware bugs take the same magnitude > > > of time to find.It is when you have software interacating with > > > hardware the fun begins are you are now not sure what works. > > > > Jerome Fine replies: > > > > Fortunately I can't remember having that problem very often. > > > > When I first started to program computers, I found it difficult > > to find software bugs. While it is still difficult, I now realize that > > hardware rarely fails. Although I have found a one or two bugs > > As Ben (?) said, the fun really starts when you have designed (and > constructed) both the hardware and the software yourself. Say you've > built a little microcontroller system and written the firmware for it. > > You can have : > > A hardware design problem (you used the wrong components) > A hardware construction problem (you wired to the wrong pin on the IC, > you shorted to connections together with a solder blob by mistake) > A software desgin problem (you used the wrong algorithm) > A software construction problem (you mis-coded that algorithm in the > machine code for the CPU you are using. A trivial example would be > assuming that an instruction affects CPU flags when, in fact, it doesn't, > or vice versa). Actually it can get worse... because you may well have your own (maybe buggy and always changing) software tools for creating or debugging the firmware... Problems noted when trying to debug some FPGA based microcontroller firmware: Firmware error (since I dont write the firmware I always blame this first ;-) Bad FPGA hardware definition file (CPU or peripheral -- Stiffware error?) Wrong hardware (Stiffware?) revision for firmware CPU/assembler version mismatch CPU/single stepper/dissasembler mismatch I guess its time to have a CPU revision register in my CPU... > > You have to be able to isolate what's going on, and quickly, to have any > chance of fixing it. It's best to assume that nothing is correct at the > start, and then to verify everything a bit at a time. > > > (a) I once found a sticky bit - defined as a bit which was always > > ONE when it was supposed to be ONE, but sometimes a ONE > > when it was supposed to be zero. The quick solution was to be > > sure to place an instruction at that location which required that > > the sticky bit be a ONE - that way, the program always worked. > > Hardware Hacker's solution : Replace that darn RAM chip. It will 'bite' > you sometime. Other bits might fail too... > > -tony > > Peter Wallace From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Aug 13 19:43:00 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: Dec TU-56 Question References: Message-ID: <025701c2432b$77c79b20$de2c67cb@helpdesk> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 8:37 AM Subject: Re: Dec TU-56 Question > I re-wrote an old 'joke' (about a drop of oil, originally) the last time > somebody moaned that I'd charged them \pounds 50.00 to replace a 2N3904 > transistor. I gave them the following itemised bill : > > 2N3904 transistor : \pounds 0.07 > > Figuring out which transistor to replace, considering that I had no > service information, would _never_ be able to find said information, and > had never seen a similar machine before : \pounds 49.93 I can relate to that, my old boss' reaction to customers who bitch about a $50 bill for an open circuit resistor was "Ok let me show you". Then he'd take the back off, point at the board, hold up the dead resistor and say it's "It's 2c for the resistor and $49.98 for knowing WHICH resistor." This usually got the message across. > The same must apply to software too. Anybody can retype a line of code > and recompile/reassamble the program. It's figuring out which line to > change, and what to change it to, that takes the time and expertise. Same same. Cheers Geoff in Oz From martinm at allwest.net Tue Aug 13 19:47:00 2002 From: martinm at allwest.net (Martin Marshall) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows Message-ID: <3D59A87E.F63D9887@allwest.net> This may be a bit off topic. I received a forwarded message that originated from lindows.com. They are in a suit with Microsoft regarding the use of "Lindows,com". Microsoft is suing Lindows for trademark violation. In the message, Michael Robertson, with Lindows, is looking for old documentation of the use of the word "windows" and "windowing" prior to 1983. I can't think of a better resource than this list to find these references. The relevant part of the forwarded message is quoted below. Maybe some of the list members can provide the needed info to lindows.com Martin Marshall ________________quote from forwarded message______________________________________________ Microsoft Corp. v. Lindows.com Update Some of you have sent me email asking for an update on the battle with Microsoft and wanting to know how you can help. In case you missed it, Microsoft sued to shut down Lindows.com earlier in the year. It was a transparent attempt to stifle the inevitable competition which Linux represents. Their allegation was (and is) that they own the trademark for the word "windows," maintaining that no other company should be allowed to use the word "windows" -- not even the "indows" portion. Of course, there are hundreds of products and companies that use the word "windows" - and Microsoft has never filed suit against any of them. That's a huge clue that this suit has little to do with trademark confusion. (If you missed any part of the proceedings to date, visit http://www.lindows.com/opposition to read the court papers and summaries.) Many people have congratulated us, prematurely, on our victory. While the judicial system did block their request to shut us down, a trial is looming for April 2003. At that time, the Judge (or jury) will decide whether Microsoft has a valid trademark for the word "windows" and whether the Lindows.com name is confusing. In the interim, we're moving through the legal process where Microsoft is demanding, as part of the discovery process, everything from our business plan to our list of partner companies. As you can imagine, it's challenging for a 39-person company to compete with a Goliath that has hundreds of people--just in the legal department alone. This is where we could use a bit of help from our community of Insiders and those on our mailing list. While Microsoft can outspend us with high-priced lawyers and experts, they cannot buy history. We know, of course, that the word "windows" had been used in the industry for years before Microsoft adopted it in the early 1980s for the name of its windowing interface product, Microsoft Windows 1.0. We could, however, use your help in gathering as much evidence as possible to show the usage of the words "windows", "window" and "windowing" before and after 1983, the date Microsoft first filed its trademark application. If you have magazine or newspaper articles, academic papers, journal articles, product manuals, advertisements, textbooks, dictionaries, or anything else that uses the terms, we'd like to hear from you. We'd also like to hear from anyone who had personal experience in the industry during those early years and can recall the history of the early windowing products such as Xerox's Star, VisiCorp's VisiOn, Apple's Lisa, Digital Research's GEM, Quarterdeck's DesQ, IBM's TopView, and others. Please email all your findings to legal@lindows.com. As always, thanks for all your help. Michael Robertson ________________________________________________________________________________________________ From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Aug 13 20:17:00 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows In-Reply-To: <3D59A87E.F63D9887@allwest.net> References: <3D59A87E.F63D9887@allwest.net> Message-ID: >I received a forwarded message that originated from lindows.com. They >are in a suit with Microsoft regarding the use of "Lindows,com". >Microsoft is suing Lindows for trademark violation. In the message, >Michael Robertson, with Lindows, is looking for old documentation of the >use of the word "windows" and "windowing" prior to 1983. I can't think >of a better resource than this list to find these references. The >relevant part of the forwarded message is quoted below. > >Maybe some of the list members can provide the needed info to >lindows.com I have here a full distribution, including manuals, of 'Concurrent CP/M with Windows For IBM PC or PC XT' which looks to be dated approximately November 1983. This is according to the release notes included in the manual, which covers some of the differences between this and prior versions of 'Concurrent CP/M'. Taken directly from the User's Guide: --------------------------------------------------- - What is a CP/M Window? A CP/M Window is a viewport to a virtual console. There are frames around each of Concurrent CP/M's four virtual consoles. These frames set the limit of what you can see in a virtual console. The frames are called CP/M Windows. - What Can You Do to CP/M Windows? You can move CP/M Windows anywhere on the screen, and make the size of any of the windows as small, or as large as the limits of the screen allow. Windows can extend beyond the edge of the screen, overlap, or hide one another. --------------------------------------------------- There obviously is much more information than that. It does state that CP/M Windows are usable in text mode only and that it is possible to change foreground and background colors within a window if a color card is available. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From allain at panix.com Tue Aug 13 20:33:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows References: <3D59A87E.F63D9887@allwest.net> Message-ID: <006a01c24332$6e152320$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Try using 'Apollo' as a starting point. They started shipping windowed workstations on or before 1981. E.G. http://www.zepa.net/apollo/ http://www.citi.umich.edu/apollo-archive/photo-gallery/dm.gif also the Window concept is mentioned repeatedly in "Fundamentals of Interactive Computer Graphics" Foley, VanDam (c)1982 if not Principles of Interactive Computer Graphics" Newman, Sproull (c)1979 "Mathematical Elements for Computer Graphics" Rodgers, Adams (c)1976, 1 reference John A. From jrasite at eoni.com Tue Aug 13 20:55:00 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: Completely on topic... Apple IIgs References: <3D59A87E.F63D9887@allwest.net> <006a01c24332$6e152320$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3D59B840.5000701@eoni.com> Anyone collect? Had one fall into the pile over the weekend. If interested, p-mail me. Jim From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Aug 13 20:59:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows In-Reply-To: <006a01c24332$6e152320$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: I'm not entirely sure how useful some of this will be. From what I gather, the lawsuit is less about notion of `windows', in the functional sense, and more about a trademark infringement of the name Windows. Admittedly, I think it's a insanely stupid that anyone is allowed to trademark a common word. I also think it's insanely stupid that the courts would consider Lindows and infringement on Windows. In a world with more common sense, the courts would throw this stuff out immediately. Then again, common sense didn't prevent eBay's lawyers from coming after me with threats of litigation, over trademark infringement, when I registered the JoeBay.ORG domain name for my acquaintence, Joe Bay. -brian. From doug_jackson at citadel.com.au Tue Aug 13 21:40:01 2002 From: doug_jackson at citadel.com.au (Doug Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: TI-59 question Message-ID: Ed, I live is Australia, and have a 120V adapter for the TI-58/59 calc that I do not need. If you (or anybody elso on the list would like it, please let me know. (The postage cost would be minimal (probably $20 Aus). regards Doug Jackson MSS Operations Manager Citadel Securix (02) 6290 9011 (Ph) (02) 6262 6152 (Fax) (0414) 986 878 (mobile) > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Tapley [mailto:mtapley@swri.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 4:42 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: TI-59 question > > > Ed, > > >If you want to depart with the described items, I can surely > use them. Some > >parts of the calculator are good for spares like the pack, > the reader and the > >housing. > > Oops. I apologise, Ed, I was very imprecise with what I > wrote. I meant most > of the description as background to explain why I *might* > have a spare 110V > power supply. I'll search for the power supply tonight; if I > can find it, > postage to you (Nederlands?) will be all I'll want for it. > The rest of the > gear, I still hope to return to service one day. Admittedly > I'm not making > very good progress - there are two printers in the queue > ahead of it and > they have been there the better part of a year now - but I'd > still like to > keep it for now, at least. If I do decide to get rid of it, > you get first > dibs. > > Sipke, *great* site. I also have some user-documentation-type > stuff for the > machine. Let me know if you need scans or whatever. > > Anybody know a good source for tabbed AA size ni-cads to > replace the ones > in the battery pack? > - Mark > > > CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. http://www.citadel.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020813/2ac51428/attachment.html From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Aug 13 21:45:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: Dec TU-56 Question References: Message-ID: <3D59C343.50805@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: > And I find it difficult to trust the self-diagnostic results of hardware > that's malfunctioning. How can I be _sure_ the self-diagnostic part is > working correctly :-) That is one place where real computers have the advatage -- Great front panels !!! From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Aug 13 21:54:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows In-Reply-To: <3D59A87E.F63D9887@allwest.net> References: <3D59A87E.F63D9887@allwest.net> Message-ID: <20020814031126.GC1917@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Martin Marshall, from writings of Tue, Aug 13, 2002 at 06:46:54PM -0600: > I received a forwarded message that originated from lindows.com. They > are in a suit with Microsoft regarding the use of "Lindows,com". > Microsoft is suing Lindows for trademark violation. In the message, Since when are rhyming words trademark violations? Bindows Cindows Dindows Findows Gindows Hindows Jindows Kindows Mindows Nindows Pindows Rindows Sindows Tindows Vindows Xindows Yindows Zindows Are all of these supposed to be trademark violations as well? Perhaps we should all create some web pages for these names of fictitious operating systems. :-) > Michael Robertson, with Lindows, is looking for old documentation of the > use of the word "windows" and "windowing" prior to 1983. I can't think Simple. Such documentation goes back many hundreds of years. "windows" on a computer can be thought of as being similar to windows in a house in a way, so this is an example of what should be a rather weak trademark, is it not? Any thoughts on this? If the truth in advertising laws were enforced, Microsoft ads would be asking "When do you want to crash today?" ...of course, it would, naturally, crash at a different time, after all, it's Windows. Microsoft, Microsoft, 'twas only luck. Microsoft, Microsoft, why do you suck? Microsoft, Microsoft, creat'd windows? Microsoft, Microsoft, lies through its toes. Microsoft, Microsoft, fears new Lindows. Microsoft, Microsoft, crashing Windows. Microsoft, Microsoft, can't e'r play fair. Microsoft, Microsoft, creates despair. Microsoft, Microsoft, why do you suck? Microsoft, Microsoft, 'twas only luck. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From archer at topnow.com Tue Aug 13 22:13:01 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows References: <3D59A87E.F63D9887@allwest.net> <20020814031126.GC1917@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3D59CAB7.19163E04@topnow.com> "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > Quothe Martin Marshall, from writings of Tue, Aug 13, 2002 at 06:46:54PM -0600: > > I received a forwarded message that originated from lindows.com. They > > are in a suit with Microsoft regarding the use of "Lindows,com". > > Microsoft is suing Lindows for trademark violation. In the message, > > Since when are rhyming words trademark violations? > > Bindows The binary-only distribution :) > Cindows Has special Justice-Department-approved task to allow law enforcement to "see in"to your PC and look for anything that might offend someone somewhere and arrest you for it. :) > Dindows Especially obnoxious WAV files are selected for system events > Findows Will never happen. > Gindows *hic* > Hindows Special Indian-language version > Mindows A really small distribution > Nindows Especially for fans of loud industrial synth-music > Sindows Finds porn automatically and downloads it to your hard drive by the gig. Works in conjunction with "Cindows" to frame and remove those who have been deemed annoying to the development of a sanitary police state. :) > Tindows They tried Platinumows, but it sounded too stupid. :) > Vindows Special DMV copy that randomly crosslinks registration data between Linux users and felons for Bill's amusement. :) > Are all of these supposed to be trademark violations as well? Yup, I'd be willing to bet a Diet Pepsi that they'd sue for anything that sounded like Windoze. :( Perhaps > we should all create some web pages for these names of fictitious > operating systems. :-) > > > Michael Robertson, with Lindows, is looking for old documentation of the > > use of the word "windows" and "windowing" prior to 1983. I can't think > > Simple. Such documentation goes back many hundreds of years. > "windows" on a computer can be thought of as being similar to windows > in a house in a way, so this is an example of what should be a rather > weak trademark, is it not? Any thoughts on this? > > If the truth in advertising laws were enforced, Microsoft ads would be > asking "When do you want to crash today?" ...of course, it would, > naturally, crash at a different time, after all, it's Windows. > > Microsoft, Microsoft, 'twas only luck. > Microsoft, Microsoft, why do you suck? > Microsoft, Microsoft, creat'd windows? > Microsoft, Microsoft, lies through its toes. > Microsoft, Microsoft, fears new Lindows. > Microsoft, Microsoft, crashing Windows. > Microsoft, Microsoft, can't e'r play fair. > Microsoft, Microsoft, creates despair. > Microsoft, Microsoft, why do you suck? > Microsoft, Microsoft, 'twas only luck. > > -- > Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From univac2 at earthlink.net Tue Aug 13 23:44:00 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows In-Reply-To: <3D59A87E.F63D9887@allwest.net> Message-ID: on 8/13/02 7:46 PM, Martin Marshall at martinm@allwest.net wrote: > This may be a bit off topic. > > I received a forwarded message that originated from lindows.com. They > are in a suit with Microsoft regarding the use of "Lindows,com". > Microsoft is suing Lindows for trademark violation. In the message, > Michael Robertson, with Lindows, is looking for old documentation of the > use of the word "windows" and "windowing" prior to 1983. I can't think > of a better resource than this list to find these references. The > relevant part of the forwarded message is quoted below. > > Maybe some of the list members can provide the needed info to > lindows.com I have some old (late seventies/early eighties) computer graphics books that have entire chapters on windows. What about the Lisa. It came out in 1983, but I'm assuming that Apple used the term 'window' to describe it's interface prior to it's actual release. What about TopView? Was it pre 1983? Probably not. -- Owen Robertson From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Aug 14 00:27:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows References: Message-ID: <3D59E935.2030700@jetnet.ab.ca> Owen Robertson wrote: > on 8/13/02 7:46 PM, Martin Marshall at martinm@allwest.net wrote: > > >>This may be a bit off topic. >> >>I received a forwarded message that originated from lindows.com. They >>are in a suit with Microsoft regarding the use of "Lindows,com". >>Microsoft is suing Lindows for trademark violation. In the message, >>Michael Robertson, with Lindows, is looking for old documentation of the >>use of the word "windows" and "windowing" prior to 1983. I can't think >>of a better resource than this list to find these references. The >>relevant part of the forwarded message is quoted below. >> >>Maybe some of the list members can provide the needed info to >>lindows.com > > > I have some old (late seventies/early eighties) computer graphics books that > have entire chapters on windows. What about the Lisa. It came out in 1983, > but I'm assuming that Apple used the term 'window' to describe it's > interface prior to it's actual release. What about TopView? Was it pre 1983? > Probably not. > What about GEM the other real windowing software at the time? From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Aug 14 01:16:00 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows References: <3D59E935.2030700@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <005001c24359$fb618da0$f743cd18@D73KSM11> > Owen Robertson wrote: > > on 8/13/02 7:46 PM, Martin Marshall at martinm@allwest.net wrote: > > > > > >>This may be a bit off topic. > >> > >>I received a forwarded message that originated from lindows.com. They > >>are in a suit with Microsoft regarding the use of "Lindows,com". > >>Microsoft is suing Lindows for trademark violation. In the message, > >>Michael Robertson, with Lindows, is looking for old documentation of the > >>use of the word "windows" and "windowing" prior to 1983. I can't think > >>of a better resource than this list to find these references. The > >>relevant part of the forwarded message is quoted below. > >> > >>Maybe some of the list members can provide the needed info to > >>lindows.com > > > > > > I have some old (late seventies/early eighties) computer graphics books that > > have entire chapters on windows. What about the Lisa. It came out in 1983, > > but I'm assuming that Apple used the term 'window' to describe it's > > interface prior to it's actual release. What about TopView? Was it pre 1983? > > Probably not. > > > What about GEM the other real windowing software at the time? > Here's the text from a 1978 Business Week article. Note the quote from "Billy Gates": 1978 McGraw-Hill, Inc., Business Week, October 23, 1978 Copyright 1978 McGraw-Hill, Inc. Business Week October 23, 1978, Industrial Edition SECTION: INDUSTRIAL MARKETING; Pg. 62 G LENGTH: 680 words HEADLINE: Big memories that make the programming easier BODY: When Hewlett-Packard Co. took the wraps off two new computers this month, it may finally have squelched any lingering doubts about the value of its big investment in silicon-on-sapphire (SOS), an exotic semiconductor technology that few merchant semiconductor companies have bothered to pursue. "SOS has let them put a lot of power in a small package and run it off a 110-volt line," says Richard J. Matlack, minicomputer analyst for Dataquest Inc., of Menlo Park, Calif. "I'm very impressed." Outsiders have wondered for six years whether HP's expensive (more than $5 million) SOS development program would ever pay off. Until now, integrated circuits based on that technology have been used sparingly in HP's peripheral equipment. But the HP 300 and its companion new entry, the HP 3000, Series 33, are the first commercial computers with SOS central processing units. In both products, a central processor that required nine printed-circuit boards in the original HP 3000 has been reduced to three large-scale integrated circuits on two boards. "Since 1974 we have been expanding the capability of the 3000 at about the original price," says Richard E. Edwards, product manager for the Series 33. "Now we're saying, 'Let's use the technology to drive down the price.'" Easier programming Of the two computers, the 300 is getting most attention. About the size of a free-standing computer terminal, its price starts at $36,500. With up to a million characters of main memory, the 300 approaches the memory size of mainframe computers. "The largest IBM mainframe has eight megabytes [8 million characters] of memory," says Paul C. Ely Jr., who heads HP's Computer Systems Group. "We've put a megabyte in a machine that sells for $60,000." One conclusion to be drawn from that announcement, says Dataquest's Matlack, is that "HP sells memory cheaper than anybody." Another is that HP has gone to great lengths to make programming easier. "A programmer who doesn't have to worry about memory size can work a lot faster," Matlack says. And HP has given the 300 enough software and display innovations to cut programming steps in half, claims Vijay Kapoor, product manager for the 300. Initial reaction from customers is enthusiastic. "The 300 has incredible potential" for a distributed system, says Billy V. Gates, data-processing manager for Longs Drug Stores Inc. in Walnut Creek, Calif. "We are looking at the possibility of distributing data processing to all our stores, and this is the type of equipment we could do that with." The "windowing" feature on the 300 display screen, allowing various information files to be viewed simultaneously, appeals to Gary G. Specker, data-processing head for General Mills Inc. "Many times there is a problem because you can't see all your data on one screen," he says. "Windowing is a beautiful solution." Fewer applications This kind of response encourages HP to believe that the 300 will lead a new round in the distributed-processing revolution. While the 3000 often has been sold for multiple applications in the divisions of large companies, the 300 is designed to be dedicated to a few applications at the department level. "A true general-purpose machine is out of the price range of most departments," says Kapoor. "We have tailored the 300 to handle the functions critical to a personnel department or a sales office." If this concept catches on, HP could have a product at least as important as the 3000. It is likely to see more competition in distributed processing, especially from International Business Machines Corp., which is expected to announce a powerful new series of low-cost mainframe computers this fall. But David E. Gold, a Saratoga (Calif.) consultant, points out that HP's machines are designed for interactive use, while IBM's 370 series mainframes are not. "To the extent that the new IBM machines are compatible with the 370," he suggests, "there will be some performance deficiencies relative to HP." From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Aug 14 02:49:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows In-Reply-To: <005001c24359$fb618da0$f743cd18@D73KSM11> References: <3D59E935.2030700@jetnet.ab.ca> <005001c24359$fb618da0$f743cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <39519.64.169.63.74.1029311353.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Here's the text from a 1978 Business Week article. Note the quote from > "Billy Gates": Fascinating. Inspired by that, I looked up another reference to a computer supporting text windows: Apple II Reference Manual, January 1978, Apple Computer Inc., page 74: Hex BASIC Example Description ---- ------------- ----------- [...] TEXT Mode Controls ------------------ 0020 90 POKE 32,L1 Set left side of scrolling window to location specified by L1 in range of 0 to 39. 0021 100 POKE 33,W1 Set window width to amount specified by W1. L1+W1<40. W1>0 0022 110 POKE 34,T1 Set window top to line specified by T1 in range of 0 to 23 0023 120 POKE 35,B1 Set window bottom to line specified by B1 in the range of 0 to 23. B1>T1 A few pages later, this is followed by the source code to the "Apple II System Monitor" which implemented the windowing, and had a 1977 copyright. The next edition, titled "APPLE ][ REFERENCE MANUAL", was first published in 1979. Page 31 has a more detailed explanation of the windowing feature: BUT SOFT, WHAT LIGHT THROUGH YONDER WINDOW BREAKS! (OR, THE TEXT WINDOW) In the above discussions of the various motions of the output cursor, the words "right", "left", "top", and "bottom" mean the physical right, left, top, and bottom fo the standard 40-character wide by 24-line tall screen. There is, however, a way to tell the COUT subroutine that you want it to use only a section of the screen, and not the entire 960-character display. This segregated section of the text screen is called a "window". A program or language can set the positions of the top, bottom, left side, and width of the text window by storing these positions in four locations in memory. When this is done, the COUT subroutine will use the new positions to calculate the size of the screen. It will never print any text ouside of this window, and when it must scroll the screen, it will only scroll the text within the window. This gives programs the power to control the placement of text, and to protect areas of the screen from being overwritten with new text. Location number 32 (hexadecimal $20) in memory holds the column position of the leftmost column in the window. This position is normally position 0 for the extreme left side of the screen. The number should never exceed 39 (hexadecimal $27), the leftmost [*] column on the text screen. Location number 33 (hexadecimal $21) holds the width, in columns, of the cursor window. This number is normally 40 (hexadecimal $28) for a full 40-character screen. Be careful that the sum of the window width and the leftmost window position does not exceed 40! If it does, it is possible for COUT to place characters in memory locations not on the screen, endangering your programs and data. Location 34 (hexadecimal $22) contains the number of the top line of the text window. This is also normally 0, indicating the topmost line of the display. Location 35 (hexadecimal $23) holds the number of the bottom line of the screen [**] (plus one), thus normally 24 (hexadecimal $18) for the bottommost line of the screen. When you change the text window, you should take care that you know the whereabouts of the output cursor, and that it will be inside the new window. [*] Presumably they meant "rightmost". [**] Presumably they meant "of the text window". Note that neither manual explicitly discusses the concept of having multiple windows on the screen simultaneously, although the first paragraph in the newer manual suggests that when it proposes using the feature to "protect areas of the screen from being overwritten with new text." The earliest game program I wrote for the Apple ][ (in Integer BASIC), back in late 1977, took advantage of this feature to display multiple windows for different aspects of the game, and even used inverse-video space characters to create visible borders for the windows. The utility of multiple independent text windows was readily apparent to even a novice programmer. Since the Apple monitor would only keep track of one window and cursor location, it fell upon the application programmer to track multiple sets and swap the relevant values in and out of the zero page variables used by the monitor ($20-23 for window bounds, 24-25 for cursor location, and 28-29 for current line base address (or call VTAB at FC22 after switching)). As anyone who used the Apple ][ extensively will tell you, many programs did use multiple windows, although only a few programs presented overlapping windows. Most were tiled, but at least a few allowed overlap in a limited manner. The most common form of overlap that I recall seeing in Apple II programs was the creation of a new window overlapping existing information in order to prompt the user for some input, akin to a "dialog box" in modern GUIs. And the window concept on the Apple ][ wasn't limited only to text. One of Apple's Contributed Software Library disks included a character generator program for high-resolution graphics mode, and it honored the window settings. I recall playing at least one game in 1978 that used this feature. Note that Microsoft Windows 1.x *only* supported tiled windows, and presumably Microsoft would not claim that their "Windows" trademarkdid not apply to Microsoft Windows 1.x. Anyhow, even though this usage of windows on a computer display dates back to mid-1977, it's fairly clear that other such uses existed in the 1960s. From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 14 05:52:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows In-Reply-To: <005001c24359$fb618da0$f743cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > Here's the text from a 1978 Business Week article. Note the quote from > "Billy Gates": Not the same William H. Gates of Microschlock. > Initial reaction from customers is enthusiastic. "The 300 has incredible > potential" for a distributed system, says Billy V. Gates, > data-processing manager for Longs Drug Stores Inc. in Walnut Creek, > Calif. "We are looking at the possibility of distributing data > processing to all our stores, and this is the type of equipment we could > do that with." What's interesting about this is that the venerable Roger Sinasohn, sometime list contributor, has been actively consulting for Longs Drugs for the past few years to upgrade their HP3000 based store chain network to more modern hardware. It's really neat to see this quote from when those systems were first installed (and ironically from a guy named Billy Gates of all things :) > The "windowing" feature on the 300 display screen, allowing various > information files to be viewed simultaneously, appeals to Gary G. > Specker, data-processing head for General Mills Inc. "Many times there > is a problem because you can't see all your data on one screen," he > says. "Windowing is a beautiful solution." That's pretty good prior art, at least for the trademark dispute. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 14 05:58:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows In-Reply-To: <39519.64.169.63.74.1029311353.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > Note that neither manual explicitly discusses the concept of having > multiple windows on the screen simultaneously, although the first > paragraph in the newer manual suggests that when it proposes using > the feature to "protect areas of the screen from being overwritten with > new text." The earliest game program I wrote for the Apple ][ (in > Integer BASIC), back in late 1977, took advantage of this feature to > display multiple windows for different aspects of the game, and even > used inverse-video space characters to create visible borders for > the windows. The utility of multiple independent text windows was > readily apparent to even a novice programmer. Since the Apple monitor > would only keep track of one window and cursor location, it fell upon > the application programmer to track multiple sets and swap the relevant > values in and out of the zero page variables used by the monitor > ($20-23 for window bounds, 24-25 for cursor location, and 28-29 for > current line base address (or call VTAB at FC22 after switching)). By gum, you're right. I remember becoming cognizant of the possibilities and experimenting with this myself. > As anyone who used the Apple ][ extensively will tell you, many programs > did use multiple windows, although only a few programs presented > overlapping windows. Most were tiled, but at least a few allowed > overlap in a limited manner. The most common form of overlap that I > recall seeing in Apple II programs was the creation of a new window > overlapping existing information in order to prompt the user for some > input, akin to a "dialog box" in modern GUIs. Yeah, but I don't remember any of those being prior to 1983. Maybe you do, but my experience with the Apple ][ started in late 1983. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Wed Aug 14 07:34:01 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows References: <3D59E935.2030700@jetnet.ab.ca> <005001c24359$fb618da0$f743cd18@D73KSM11> <39519.64.169.63.74.1029311353.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3D5A4DDC.D8B68B76@compsys.to> >Eric Smith wrote: > Anyhow, even though this usage of windows on a computer display dates > back to mid-1977, it's fairly clear that other such uses existed in > the 1960s. Jerome Fine replies: I remember using XTREE GOLD on a 286 under DOS 3.2 or some such. If I remember correctly, I was able to display multiple maps on the screen at the same time - while it was in the same program, the concept was certainly the same. I don't have ANY documentation from the program and the old 286 is buried at this point in a corner of the room (in any case I don't think the monitor works any longer). It seem to me that there are so many aspects of Windows type applications and concepts being used prior to Windows under DOS that only a corrupt court could possibly rule against Lindows. But with so much corruption in US business, I don't have much hope that the courts have not been infected. The real problem seems to me to be the power that M$ has in the field and that many people depend on M$ to do well. Is this thread being sent to Lindow. I like the idea of all the other words ending in "indow" being set up as web sites. Send this to Lindow as well. Are any taken as yet? Finally, TSX-PLUS also had a "Window" capability on a serial terminal like a VT100/VT220/etc. BUT, it did not allow overlapping portions from different files, etc. since the terminal was only a text output and overlapping would not have gained very much. To switch from one task to another, the user used "n". TSX-PLUS took care of saving the screen for each task. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Aug 14 08:17:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: RL02 woes In-Reply-To: References: <25148.192.18.42.11.1029222694.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020814081400.02076908@ubanproductions.com> Hi Pat, I have a spare terminator which you could borrow, but I am currently out of town until next week... --tom At 11:22 AM 8/13/2002 -0500, Patrick Finnegan wrote: >Heh, OK, I was hoping that wasn't the problem... > >Does anyone have a spare terminator or a pinout so I can build one? > >Thanks! > >-- Pat > >On Tue, 13 Aug 2002 quapla@xs4all.nl wrote: > > > > > You have to put the terminator in. Without it, the fault light will stay > > on. > > > > > Ready light cover. Also, I don't have a terminator to use. > > > > > > Right now, the drive has its 'FAULT' light on, including when the VAX > > > is powered up and at its monitor. A 'SHOW QBUS' shows the adaptor at > > > address 774400 (I think), and a 'SHOW RLV12' shows no devices attached > > > to the controller. > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Aug 14 08:24:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows References: <3D59A87E.F63D9887@allwest.net> <20020814031126.GC1917@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3D5A5A35.1030308@tiac.net> I have a solution here! Microsoft once send a small gang (gaggle?) of lawers to my workshop to shoot some photos and video or an Apollo DN660 in operation. They used this to win their case against Apple, proving their 'prior art' claims. If the Lindows people wish, they may use that VERY SAME DN660 against Mircosoft. R. D. Davis wrote: >Quothe Martin Marshall, from writings of Tue, Aug 13, 2002 at 06:46:54PM -0600: > >>I received a forwarded message that originated from lindows.com. They >>are in a suit with Microsoft regarding the use of "Lindows,com". >>Microsoft is suing Lindows for trademark violation. In the message, >> > >Since when are rhyming words trademark violations? > >Bindows >Cindows >Dindows >Findows >Gindows >Hindows >Jindows >Kindows >Mindows >Nindows >Pindows >Rindows >Sindows >Tindows >Vindows >Xindows >Yindows >Zindows > >Are all of these supposed to be trademark violations as well? Perhaps >we should all create some web pages for these names of fictitious >operating systems. :-) > >>Michael Robertson, with Lindows, is looking for old documentation of the >>use of the word "windows" and "windowing" prior to 1983. I can't think >> > >Simple. Such documentation goes back many hundreds of years. >"windows" on a computer can be thought of as being similar to windows >in a house in a way, so this is an example of what should be a rather >weak trademark, is it not? Any thoughts on this? > >If the truth in advertising laws were enforced, Microsoft ads would be >asking "When do you want to crash today?" ...of course, it would, >naturally, crash at a different time, after all, it's Windows. > >Microsoft, Microsoft, 'twas only luck. >Microsoft, Microsoft, why do you suck? >Microsoft, Microsoft, creat'd windows? >Microsoft, Microsoft, lies through its toes. >Microsoft, Microsoft, fears new Lindows. >Microsoft, Microsoft, crashing Windows. >Microsoft, Microsoft, can't e'r play fair. >Microsoft, Microsoft, creates despair. >Microsoft, Microsoft, why do you suck? >Microsoft, Microsoft, 'twas only luck. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020814/7a5f6e9b/attachment.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Aug 14 10:37:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows In-Reply-To: <3D5A4DDC.D8B68B76@compsys.to> References: <3D59E935.2030700@jetnet.ab.ca> <005001c24359$fb618da0$f743cd18@D73KSM11> <39519.64.169.63.74.1029311353.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020814113405.0ec7121e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:32 AM 8/14/02 -0400, you wrote: >>Eric Smith wrote: > >> Anyhow, even though this usage of windows on a computer display dates >> back to mid-1977, it's fairly clear that other such uses existed in >> the 1960s. > >Jerome Fine replies: > >I remember using XTREE GOLD on a 286 under DOS 3.2 or some >such. What about WindowDOS? I've used it for years. It not only uses windows, it also calls them windows and includes windows as part of it's name. I've used it for so long that my manual is shredded and I can't find a date in what's left of it. ALSO what about SideKick? The manual that I have says that "Sidekick makes full use of windows," etc etc. The manual that I have is dated 1984 and is version 1.5 so there are older versions. ALSO what about the the XEROX Star article that appeared in Scientific American? I can't recall if they specificly used the word "windows" but they clearly showed and explained the concept. There were also pictures in the article that showed "windows" in use. IIRC it appeared in the late '70s or very early '80s. I used to have that issue but gave it away. Joe From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Aug 14 10:59:28 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: 'Windowing' programs Message-ID: Damn - I actually paused to think before I typed the Holy Protected Word And All Its Homonyms, Antonyms, freakin lawyers - backed by Billy's Billions... maybe DOJ will point Ashcroft at them... Anyway, I used to use a program for very early DOS machines called Software Carousel, which basically freeze-dried up to 12 snapshots of the current TPA and chunked them onto the HD... and assigned each frozen session to a PF key. So you could switch back and forth between tasks easily. Obviously the 'frozen' tasks were just that: there was no backround processing, they remained suspended until that particular task was brought back into working memory from the HD. Cheers John From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Aug 14 11:36:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: 'Windowing' programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Damn - I actually paused to think before I typed the Holy Protected Word > And All Its Homonyms, Antonyms, freakin lawyers - backed by Billy's > Billions... maybe DOJ will point Ashcroft at them... Sorry to reintroduce POLITICS to this list, but,... Do you think that the CURRENT administration is "friendly" or "hostile" to big business? I expect the CURRENT administration to drop all action against MICROS~1. > Anyway, I used to use a program for very early DOS machines called > Software Carousel, which basically freeze-dried up to 12 snapshots of the > current TPA and chunked them onto the HD... and assigned each frozen > session to a PF key. So you could switch back and forth between tasks > easily. Is the current "prior art" discussion about the USE of task switching, or the NAME "Windows"? In other words, is this a PATENT, or a TRADEMARK issue? From dtwright at uiuc.edu Wed Aug 14 11:39:00 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: 'Windowing' programs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020814163857.GB1779907@uiuc.edu> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) said: > > Is the current "prior art" discussion about the USE of task switching, or > the NAME "Windows"? In other words, is this a PATENT, or a TRADEMARK > issue? Trademark. I think Lindows is just trying to establish that "windows" and "windowing" were widely-used industry terms before M$ took out the trademark on that word. - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Aug 14 11:51:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: 'Windowing' programs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020814170926.GD1917@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Fred Cisin (XenoSoft), from writings of Wed, Aug 14, 2002 at 09:35:35AM -0700: > Sorry to reintroduce POLITICS to this list, but,... > Do you think that the CURRENT administration is "friendly" or "hostile" to > big business? > I expect the CURRENT administration to drop all action against MICROS~1. Let's face it, blood is thicker than water. Bill Gates, George W. Bush and Hillary Clinton must all be related, as such similar, and extreme, weasel-like traits must be inherited from some common source. They really are playing on the same side of the bizdroidpoliticratical fence, including their Cuz' Algore, despite the labels of Democrat and Republican... it's all just a game to fool the gullible voting, and computer using, serfs. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From listor at melin.org Wed Aug 14 11:54:11 2002 From: listor at melin.org (Joacim Melin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: Hardware in Sweden In-Reply-To: <200208041933.PAA61121068@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <4C5733EA-AFA6-11D6-86BE-000393476F6E@melin.org> Hi all, just wanted to let you all know that if someone here is from sweden or want to get rid of old hardware then please let me know. I collect old stuff from Sun, NeXT, SGI and various Alpha-based servers and workstations and can drive a long way for the right stuff if needed to. I assume that most of you guys live in the US but still, one or two more of us maybe live in sweden so I just thought I'd make myself known. Joacim >"The easiest way to figure the cost of living is to take your income and add ten percent." > > URL : http://z80.org > email, desktop : joacim@melin.org > email, pocket : joacim.melin@euromail.se > phone, office : +46-8-692 66 39 > phone, pocket : +46-70-868 54 19 From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 14 12:02:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: 'Windowing' programs Message-ID: As far as I ever knew, the trademark was for "Microsoft Windows"... But then again, I can't say I ever truly cared enough to pay much attention.. My favorite Windows is DECwindows ;p _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From mross666 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 14 12:53:07 2002 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows Message-ID: Bob Shannon sez: >Microsoft once send a small gang (gaggle?) of lawers to my workshop to >shoot some photos and video or an Apollo DN660 in operation. And you let them in?! :-) Lindows guys are welcome at my place to video my Xerox kit :-) Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 14 12:57:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:39 2005 Subject: 'Windowing' programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Is the current "prior art" discussion about the USE of task switching, or > the NAME "Windows"? In other words, is this a PATENT, or a TRADEMARK > issue? Definitely a trademark issue. Wouldn't it be great if Microscoff lost and all of a sudden several dozen operating systems calling themselves "Windows" appeared on the market? heheheheheheheheheheheheh Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mross666 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 14 12:57:15 2002 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: TTY spares request Message-ID: Hope someone can help - perhaps they're lying in a NJ warehouse! Been checking out my old ASR33s, a couple of them are missing the small bar (shaped like a 'double Y') which connects the keyboard mechanism to the printer. Anybody got any spares? Thanks Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 14 12:58:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: Hardware in Sweden In-Reply-To: <4C5733EA-AFA6-11D6-86BE-000393476F6E@melin.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Joacim Melin wrote: > just wanted to let you all know that if someone here is from sweden or > want to get rid of old hardware then please let me know. I collect old > stuff from Sun, NeXT, SGI and various Alpha-based servers and > workstations and can drive a long way for the right stuff if needed to. > > I assume that most of you guys live in the US but still, one or two more > of us maybe live in sweden so I just thought I'd make myself known. Joacim, the list is international in scope and I am sure there is at least one more Swede subscribed. At any rate, there are many folks from Scandinavian countries and certainly dozens from European countries, so you're well into the fray. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From univac2 at earthlink.net Wed Aug 14 13:00:00 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: 'Windowing' programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 8/14/02 11:35 AM, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) at cisin@xenosoft.com wrote: >> Damn - I actually paused to think before I typed the Holy Protected Word >> And All Its Homonyms, Antonyms, freakin lawyers - backed by Billy's >> Billions... maybe DOJ will point Ashcroft at them... > > Sorry to reintroduce POLITICS to this list, but,... > Do you think that the CURRENT administration is "friendly" or "hostile" to > big business? > I expect the CURRENT administration to drop all action against MICROS~1. At the risk of futher de-valuing my shares of Apple, and turning a certain list member back to looking down on the Macintosh, George W. Bush is a Mac user. I believe he even subscribes to MacAddict. :-) -- Owen Robertson From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Aug 14 13:16:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: 'Windowing' programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Sorry to reintroduce POLITICS to this list, but,... > Do you think that the CURRENT administration is "friendly" or "hostile" to > big business? > I expect the CURRENT administration to drop all action against MICROS~1. George The First will keep George The Idiot from doing anything quite that blatant. Think "toothless".... > Is the current "prior art" discussion about the USE of task switching, or > the NAME "Windows"? In other words, is this a PATENT, or a TRADEMARK > issue? Trademark. But. Microsoft, AFAICT, would like for this case to cover both as a single concept. Everyhing I've read about the case itself, and particularly MS' statements, seems to consider both issues as mutually intrinsic. Doc From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Wed Aug 14 13:43:01 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: Vintage "chat" software available for use Message-ID: <000b01c243c2$6f55b700$023ca8c0@blafleur> It only seems fitting that the users of a vintage computers list should have access to "vintage" chat software for real-time discussions. Therefore, I am making my VAX based chat software available for use to anyone on the list. Although I recently recompiled the software to fix a bug, there has been virtually no changes to it since 1990 or so, and the bulk of the coding was done in the mid 80's. This software predates what we all know as the internet, Instant Messaging, IRC, etc. If you'd like access, send me an E-mail (bob_lafleur@technologist.com) requesting access. Tell me what you'd like for a login ID. (You will be able to pick a nickname for use in the software the first time you log in). I will be happy to create a login for you, and you will choose your own password the first time you log in. I will send you instructions on how to connect using telnet. Happy chatting! - Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020814/e7eb790b/attachment.html From mythtech at mac.com Wed Aug 14 13:55:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows Message-ID: >I have a solution here! > >Microsoft once send a small gang (gaggle?) of lawers to my workshop to >shoot some photos and video or >an Apollo DN660 in operation. > >They used this to win their case against Apple, proving their 'prior >art' claims. > >If the Lindows people wish, they may use that VERY SAME DN660 against >Mircosoft. That would be the ultimate in poetic justice!!! -chris From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 14 15:32:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: 'Windowing' programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Owen Robertson wrote: > At the risk of futher de-valuing my shares of Apple, and turning a > certain list member back to looking down on the Macintosh, George W. > Bush is a Mac user. I believe he even subscribes to MacAddict. :-) George W. Bush knows how to use a computer? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Aug 14 15:41:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: 'Windowing' programs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020814164304.4347afc2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:32 AM 8/14/02 -0700, you wrote: >On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Owen Robertson wrote: > >> At the risk of futher de-valuing my shares of Apple, and turning a >> certain list member back to looking down on the Macintosh, George W. >> Bush is a Mac user. I believe he even subscribes to MacAddict. :-) > >George W. Bush knows how to use a computer? Who says that a Mac is a computer? It's just a glorified Each-A-Sketch! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Wed Aug 14 16:02:00 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 13 Aug 2002 23:43:12 CDT." Message-ID: <200208140841.JAA12620@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Owen Robertson said: > on 8/13/02 7:46 PM, Martin Marshall at martinm@allwest.net wrote: > > > This may be a bit off topic. > > > > I received a forwarded message that originated from lindows.com. They > > are in a suit with Microsoft regarding the use of "Lindows,com". > > Microsoft is suing Lindows for trademark violation. In the message, > > Michael Robertson, with Lindows, is looking for old documentation of the > > use of the word "windows" and "windowing" prior to 1983. I can't think > > of a better resource than this list to find these references. The > > relevant part of the forwarded message is quoted below. > > > > Maybe some of the list members can provide the needed info to > > lindows.com > > I have some old (late seventies/early eighties) computer graphics books that > have entire chapters on windows. What about the Lisa. It came out in 1983, > but I'm assuming that Apple used the term 'window' to describe it's > interface prior to it's actual release. What about TopView? Was it pre 1983? > Probably not. Byte's Smalltalk issue, August 1981, has a number of articles describing windows and windowing in the Smalltalk environment. In fact terms like "Browse.Window" etc. are part of the Smalltalk-76 specification. I have e-mailed lindows.com with the details. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From univac2 at earthlink.net Wed Aug 14 16:24:01 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: 'Windowing' programs In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020814164304.4347afc2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: on 8/14/02 4:43 PM, Joe at rigdonj@cfl.rr.com wrote: > Who says that a Mac is a computer? It's just a glorified Each-A-Sketch! I shall just grin at your ignorance. :-) -- Owen Robertson From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 14 16:48:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: 'Windowing' programs Message-ID: Who says a PC is a computer? It's just an Intel marketing gimmick... From my experiences doing tech support, I shudder to imagine the general populace using real computers... And macs are OK if you run Be on them. Just my 2 cent piece worth Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Aug 14 16:48:26 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: 'Windowing' programs In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020814164304.4347afc2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from Joe at "Aug 14, 2 04:43:04 pm" Message-ID: <200208142156.OAA28010@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Who says that a Mac is a computer? It's just a glorified Each-A-Sketch! Infidel. :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. -- Salvor Hardin ----------- From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Aug 14 16:53:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: 'Windowing' programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Will Jennings wrote: > Who says a PC is a computer? It's just an Intel marketing gimmick... > From my experiences doing tech support, I shudder to imagine the > general populace using real computers... And macs are OK if you run Be > on them. Or if you NEXTSTEP^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HMac OS X on them. -brian. From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 14 16:57:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: 'Windowing' programs Message-ID: Well I've never run NeXTStep, and I hate UNIX with a passion. Of course, I have something like 10-15 or more UNIX boxes, but yanno.. heh.. Personally, I'd like to try NeXTStep, but not on a NeXT. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 14 17:23:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: DEC G848 Message-ID: Hi all, I was given a G848 the other day, and I need some information about what components are supposed to be on it, so that I can replace the parts that my friend had cannablized from it. The one I have is a G848L revision, so the prints of the G848 in the TU56 printset didn't help, as they are for a G848K.. Basically, either the prints or a a good quality picture would work.. Also, is this board still used with the TU56? Or is it for something else? Will J _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 14 17:27:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: Unisys manuals Message-ID: Would whoever it was that offered Unisys manuals a while back please contact me? I had been talking to you about obtaining them, but damned hotmail deleted the messages, urgh.. Assuming you haven't pitched them I am still interested.. If you have, then please accept my apologies.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Aug 14 17:32:00 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: 'Windowing' programs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >... And macs are OK if you run Be on them. That's my current project. My BeBox has a ROM issue that is keeping it from even beginning to boot so I'm building up a PM7600 to run it on, complete with dual-604e CPU board. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 14 18:54:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: Dec TU-56 Question In-Reply-To: from "Peter C. Wallace" at Aug 13, 2 05:20:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 620 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020814/7e5f4012/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 14 18:56:46 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: Dec TU-56 Question In-Reply-To: <3D59C343.50805@jetnet.ab.ca> from "Ben Franchuk" at Aug 13, 2 08:41:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 882 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020814/5f3172a7/attachment.ksh From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Wed Aug 14 19:43:01 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows References: <200208140841.JAA12620@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <3D5AF8AE.3DB829A0@compsys.to> >Stan Barr wrote: > > Owen Robertson said: > > > on 8/13/02 7:46 PM, Martin Marshall at martinm@allwest.net wrote: > > > This may be a bit off topic. > > > I received a forwarded message that originated from lindows.com. They > > > are in a suit with Microsoft regarding the use of "Lindows,com". > > > Microsoft is suing Lindows for trademark violation. In the message, > > > Michael Robertson, with Lindows, is looking for old documentation of the > > > use of the word "windows" and "windowing" prior to 1983. I can't think > > > of a better resource than this list to find these references. The > > > relevant part of the forwarded message is quoted below. > > I have some old (late seventies/early eighties) computer graphics books that > > have entire chapters on windows. What about the Lisa. It came out in 1983, > > but I'm assuming that Apple used the term 'window' to describe it's > > interface prior to it's actual release. What about TopView? Was it pre 1983? > > Probably not. > Byte's Smalltalk issue, August 1981, has a number of articles describing > windows and windowing in the Smalltalk environment. In fact terms like > "Browse.Window" etc. are part of the Smalltalk-76 specification. > I have e-mailed lindows.com with the details. Jerome Fine replies: I sent the following e-mail to Lindows.com: ================================================== Gentlemen: As far as I can remember, the TSX-PLUS Operating System used a "Windows" concept all during the 1980s. Because there was no mouse available and only a monochrome character terminal was available which was used in place of a monitor/keyboard, the whole concept was completely different than with a monitor and the current PC hardware. But the term "Window" was used and it went as far as it could with the available hardware. Note that I can't remember when the term "Window" was first introduced, but TSX-PLUS was a mature Operating System by 1985 and the last version was V6.5 released in 1991. As far as I know, it can still be purchased to run either with a real PDP-11 computer or an emulator which can run PDP-11 code. At one point I actually sold a few copies of TSX-PLUS to some large companies and I still use it myself every few years as required since I still have a valid license. The "Windows" feature was a key essential part of the TSX-PLUS Operating System. Since a user could easily and quickly shift from one window to the next (TSX-PLUS saved the contents of each "Window"), the need to have multiple terminals was greatly reduced. Switching from one "Window" to the other only required the user to use the two character request: "n" where CTRL/W was the "W" character while the CTRL key was held down and "n" was a single decimal digit - up to 10 "Windows" were allowed per job. Perhaps this is of some help. Currently S&H owns TSX-PLUS. http://sandh.com/ ================================================== I remember upgrading a system from V5.1C of TSX-PLUS to V6.5 of TSX-PLUS. I seem to remember that V5.01 of RT-11 was being used to boot TSX. V5.01 of RT-11 was released in 1984. Since the Windows concept was firmly established, in use and debugged with V5.1C of TSX-PLUS, That would mean that it would have been in use prior to 1983. Can anyone here remember when TSX-PLUS started to use the Windows concept just in case it is relevant to the Windows vs Lindows situation? My feeling is that it will be the shear number of Operating Systems and ways in which the specific "Windows" word was used which will prove the point in a Trademark case. But, since I never had studied law, what do I know? But every bit should help. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From mythtech at mac.com Wed Aug 14 20:00:01 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: Fwd: [swap] FS: Antique Apple Collection Message-ID: Got this on a Mac swap list. Since there is mention of more than Macs, I didn't know if anyone in his area might be interested. Reply to them, not me. -c ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- Date: 8/14/02 7:43 PM Received: 8/14/02 8:54 PM From: bill clemons, clemonsb@mac.com To: LEM Swap List, lem-swap@mail.maclaunch.com I'm losing my storage space and need to dispose of a LARGE collection of early computers and related items, mostly Apple and early Mac. There are some Kaypros,Amigas,Commodores,Sinclairs,PETs etc. as well as printers,external drives,cableing,software and books. Compacts from Mac 128 to SE 30, Apple lls, Mac lls some LCs. I don't have a complete inventory and I really don't want to pick through it for individual items. There is enough stuff to pack a 14' UHaul solid. Best offer, you move,located in Hot Springs Arkansas. Great deal for a collector or MUG that wants to start a museum. Thanks, Bill Clemons PS 99% of this stuff works. ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- -chris From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Aug 14 21:21:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: TTY spares request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Hope someone can help - perhaps they're lying in a NJ warehouse! The dumpster beckons - time is short. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From cbajpai at attbi.com Wed Aug 14 21:27:00 2002 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: 'Windowing' programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601c24403$0606e120$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> When I was at Leading Edge my first task was to evaluate these packages - Quarterdeck, Windows 1.0 or DRI GEM. Quarterdeck made the best package...very fast even on a 640K 4.77Mhz 8088 with a 10MB hard drive. Windows 1.0 was OK, but GEM kicked butt. Remember DoubleDOS? Incompatible with everything out there including IBM PCs. -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Lawson Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 11:58 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: 'Windowing' programs Damn - I actually paused to think before I typed the Holy Protected Word And All Its Homonyms, Antonyms, freakin lawyers - backed by Billy's Billions... maybe DOJ will point Ashcroft at them... Anyway, I used to use a program for very early DOS machines called Software Carousel, which basically freeze-dried up to 12 snapshots of the current TPA and chunked them onto the HD... and assigned each frozen session to a PF key. So you could switch back and forth between tasks easily. Obviously the 'frozen' tasks were just that: there was no backround processing, they remained suspended until that particular task was brought back into working memory from the HD. Cheers John From a.vincent at latrobe.edu.au Wed Aug 14 21:34:01 2002 From: a.vincent at latrobe.edu.au (Andrew Vincent) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: Cleaning old IBM 150mb tapes Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020815122354.028f7160@pop.latrobe.edu.au> Dear All, I was wondering if anyone might have any suggestions on how to clean old IBM 150mb tapes? I know IBM made a tape-drive cleaning tape, but did they make a tape cleaning kit? Thanks in advance. Andrew ------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Vincent Research Information Systems Officer Research and Graduate Studies Office La Trobe University Bundoora, 3083 Australia +61 3 9479 1581 (voice) +61 3 9479 1464 (fax) web: www.latrobe.edu.au/rgso ------------------------------------------------------------- From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Aug 15 00:25:00 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: Dec TU-56 Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > Actually it can get worse... because you may well have your own (maybe buggy > > and always changing) software tools for creating or debugging the firmware... > > Well, I guess I'm way behind the times, as usual, but I still create my > microcontroller firmware in assembly language. And I _alway_ read the hex > file produced by the assembler and check that it really is a correct > assembly of the source code (I particularly check that labels have been > correctly interpretted, etc). Our firmware is in assembler, the problem is what version of the assembler, since the CPU may change daily... I do pretty well know the opcodes in hex, ( I deliberately made add = AXXXXh, NOP = 0000h) but whenever I change some bit field definition I forget what the machine code looks like anymore... My CPU sort of looks like a pipelined 16 bit PIC so architecture wise it dates from an on-topic time... I used to remember most of the TMS9900 machine language (My first Micro was a Technico 9900 based system, bought in 1976) because at first I didnt have anything but a hex monitor to input programs with. Just found a TI99/4 at the flea market for $2.00 so maybe I'll mess around a little with 9900 assembler again... soorry for the ramble, past my bedtime..... > > Sure it takes a bit of time to do that (but not as much as you might > think), but it does remove one possible source of problems. > > -tony > Peter Wallace From univac2 at earthlink.net Thu Aug 15 01:59:00 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: 'Windowing' programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 8/14/02 4:47 PM, Will Jennings at xds_sigma7@hotmail.com wrote: > Who says a PC is a computer? It's just an Intel marketing gimmick... From my > experiences doing tech support, I shudder to imagine the general populace > using real computers... And macs are OK if you run Be on them. I run Be on a crappy Intel system. Be is a good OS, but not very useful. Thank you thank you THANK YOU Steve for telling them NOT to buy Be!!! Anyway, I prefer going months without a crash with Mac OS X (10.1) than having post 95 versions of Windows crash every couple of hours. Plus I like being able to run text-based UNIX programs, X based apps, Windows programs, Mac OS Classic, and Mac OS X programs, all on the screen at the same time, and all of them feeling pretty snappy. On a G4, anyway. Wouldn't try it on a G3. Would any PC users out there like to take the Photoshop benchmark test against my 800Mhz TiBook? Hmm... Anyone? :-) -- Owen Robertson From univac2 at earthlink.net Thu Aug 15 02:02:01 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: 'Windowing' programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 8/14/02 4:56 PM, Will Jennings at xds_sigma7@hotmail.com wrote: > Well I've never run NeXTStep, and I hate UNIX with a passion. Of course, I > have something like 10-15 or more UNIX boxes, but yanno.. heh.. Personally, > I'd like to try NeXTStep, but not on a NeXT. Well, you can run it on Intel, and Mac OS X is heavily based on NeXTstep. You can run AfterStep on Mac OS X. But if you *really* want the NeXTstep feel on a Mac, I've got a copy of Mac OS X Server 1.0 right here. Now all I need is some beige G3 hardware. -- Owen Robertson From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Aug 15 02:22:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: 'Windowing' programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Owen Robertson wrote: > on 8/14/02 4:47 PM, Will Jennings at xds_sigma7@hotmail.com wrote: > > > Who says a PC is a computer? It's just an Intel marketing gimmick... From my > > experiences doing tech support, I shudder to imagine the general populace > > using real computers... And macs are OK if you run Be on them. > > I run Be on a crappy Intel system. Be is a good OS, but not very useful. > Thank you thank you THANK YOU Steve for telling them NOT to buy Be!!! > > Anyway, I prefer going months without a crash with Mac OS X (10.1) than > having post 95 versions of Windows crash every couple of hours. > > Plus I like being able to run text-based UNIX programs, X based apps, > Windows programs, Mac OS Classic, and Mac OS X programs, all on the screen > at the same time, and all of them feeling pretty snappy. On a G4, anyway. > Wouldn't try it on a G3. Would any PC users out there like to take the > Photoshop benchmark test against my 800Mhz TiBook? Hmm... Anyone? :-) Assuming that Photoshop for the PC is dual-proc capable, I'm sure my Dual 1.466GHz athlon could beat it hands-down. Maybe I just have too much faith or just know how crappy the PowerPC Price/Performance ratio really is. Who has a copy of the benchmark? -- Pat From univac2 at earthlink.net Thu Aug 15 02:39:01 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: 'Windowing' programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 8/15/02 2:22 AM, Patrick Finnegan at pat@purdueriots.com wrote: > On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Owen Robertson wrote: > >> on 8/14/02 4:47 PM, Will Jennings at xds_sigma7@hotmail.com wrote: >> >>> Who says a PC is a computer? It's just an Intel marketing gimmick... From my >>> experiences doing tech support, I shudder to imagine the general populace >>> using real computers... And macs are OK if you run Be on them. >> >> I run Be on a crappy Intel system. Be is a good OS, but not very useful. >> Thank you thank you THANK YOU Steve for telling them NOT to buy Be!!! >> >> Anyway, I prefer going months without a crash with Mac OS X (10.1) than >> having post 95 versions of Windows crash every couple of hours. >> >> Plus I like being able to run text-based UNIX programs, X based apps, >> Windows programs, Mac OS Classic, and Mac OS X programs, all on the screen >> at the same time, and all of them feeling pretty snappy. On a G4, anyway. >> Wouldn't try it on a G3. Would any PC users out there like to take the >> Photoshop benchmark test against my 800Mhz TiBook? Hmm... Anyone? :-) > > Assuming that Photoshop for the PC is dual-proc capable, I'm sure my Dual > 1.466GHz athlon could beat it hands-down. Maybe I just have too much > faith or just know how crappy the PowerPC Price/Performance ratio really > is. But you're overlooking one important thing here. Photoshop is optimized for AltiVec (Velocity Engine, as Apple calls it). That gives it a tremendous speed boost on G4 systems. And if you run it on a dual processor G4, it really screams. No matter how many platforms Adobe ports it to, Photoshop is, and will always be a Mac application. Processor performance and everything else aside, Photoshop is deisgned from the ground up for the Mac, and adapted to run on Windows. > Who has a copy of the benchmark? Oh it's easy to come buy. Apple uses it frequently to promote the G4. Mac publications, Adobe, etc, all use it. According to MacAddict: A 2-pixel Gaussian Blur, using a 95MB image, with Photoshop 7 and Mac OS X on an 800Mhz TiBook (Titanium PowerBook G4) takes 14 seconds. Not bad for a portable. But even if you system outperforms mine, which being DP it might, mine is much more stable, and looks infinitely cooler. :-) -- Owen Robertson From univac2 at earthlink.net Thu Aug 15 02:55:01 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: 'Windowing' programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: By the way - I'm dropping out of this discussion now. After years of being a loyal Windows, Linux, Be, OS/2, and DOS user, I finally found a platform I'm proud to be loyal to. I avidly defend Apple and the Macintosh, but sometimes I get extremely worked up about it. Believe me, there are people out there who would not *dare* say anything the least bit negative about Apple around me. I do *not* want to get into a flamewar here, which I am very prone to do when the reputation of my platform is at stake. -- Owen Robertson on 8/15/02 2:39 AM, Owen Robertson at univac2@earthlink.net wrote: > on 8/15/02 2:22 AM, Patrick Finnegan at pat@purdueriots.com wrote: > >> On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Owen Robertson wrote: >> >>> on 8/14/02 4:47 PM, Will Jennings at xds_sigma7@hotmail.com wrote: >>> >>>> Who says a PC is a computer? It's just an Intel marketing gimmick... From >>>> my >>>> experiences doing tech support, I shudder to imagine the general populace >>>> using real computers... And macs are OK if you run Be on them. >>> >>> I run Be on a crappy Intel system. Be is a good OS, but not very useful. >>> Thank you thank you THANK YOU Steve for telling them NOT to buy Be!!! >>> >>> Anyway, I prefer going months without a crash with Mac OS X (10.1) than >>> having post 95 versions of Windows crash every couple of hours. >>> >>> Plus I like being able to run text-based UNIX programs, X based apps, >>> Windows programs, Mac OS Classic, and Mac OS X programs, all on the screen >>> at the same time, and all of them feeling pretty snappy. On a G4, anyway. >>> Wouldn't try it on a G3. Would any PC users out there like to take the >>> Photoshop benchmark test against my 800Mhz TiBook? Hmm... Anyone? :-) >> >> Assuming that Photoshop for the PC is dual-proc capable, I'm sure my Dual >> 1.466GHz athlon could beat it hands-down. Maybe I just have too much >> faith or just know how crappy the PowerPC Price/Performance ratio really >> is. > > But you're overlooking one important thing here. Photoshop is optimized for > AltiVec (Velocity Engine, as Apple calls it). That gives it a tremendous > speed boost on G4 systems. And if you run it on a dual processor G4, it > really screams. No matter how many platforms Adobe ports it to, Photoshop > is, and will always be a Mac application. Processor performance and > everything else aside, Photoshop is deisgned from the ground up for the Mac, > and adapted to run on Windows. > >> Who has a copy of the benchmark? > > Oh it's easy to come buy. Apple uses it frequently to promote the G4. Mac > publications, Adobe, etc, all use it. According to MacAddict: > > A 2-pixel Gaussian Blur, using a 95MB image, with Photoshop 7 and Mac OS X > on an 800Mhz TiBook (Titanium PowerBook G4) takes 14 seconds. > > Not bad for a portable. But even if you system outperforms mine, which being > DP it might, mine is much more stable, and looks infinitely cooler. :-) From quapla at xs4all.nl Thu Aug 15 07:54:00 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: PDP 11/70, XXDP diagnostics References: <3D5AF31C.802703E4@psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> Message-ID: <3D5BA310.5D43664C@xs4all.nl> John Holden wrote: > > Johnny Billquist wrote: > > > This is typically a clock problem. You don't have a working clock in > > your > > system. > > I have added to my 'fixing a dead PDP-11', a simple test for line time > clocks. > > http://www.psych.usyd.edu.au/pdp-11/hints.html Nice info. The problem with RSX was as Johnny Billquist already indentified due to a missing LTC signal. This is solved by placing a jumper on the backplane to get the signal on the bus when generated from the DL11-W. It is described in the FSE docs, so it is just a matter of counting the pins and make the connection. I have also executed some diagnostics, only cache test #2 fails partly, is mentions a possible problem with the ADM. Besides that problem, the machine works fine. So, I have now a nice running 11/70, and the only thing left to do is to transport the RM03 one floor up into the machine room :=( Thanks, Ed > ---------- > To unsubscribe (or subscribe) from (to) this list, send a message to > info-pdp11-request@village.org, with the first line of the message > body being "unsubscribe" or "subscribe", respectively (without the quotes). -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.groenenberg.net | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Kilometerheffing : De overheid '97 TL1000S | weet waar je bent geweest! From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Aug 15 08:06:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell on EPay Message-ID: <3D5B6141.6856.246FC16@localhost> Some people on the list were declaiming how valueless the Bell and Howells and Apples in general were. Check out http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2044128294 At $400 with still time to go for the snipers, and in a slow market. And the Lisa 1 twiggy was relisted and is at $6200 with 4 days to go. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2044987754 Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Aug 15 08:59:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: 'Windowing' programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Owen Robertson wrote: > on 8/15/02 2:22 AM, Patrick Finnegan at pat@purdueriots.com wrote: > > > Assuming that Photoshop for the PC is dual-proc capable, I'm sure my Dual > > 1.466GHz athlon could beat it hands-down. Maybe I just have too much > > faith or just know how crappy the PowerPC Price/Performance ratio really > > is. > > But you're overlooking one important thing here. Photoshop is optimized for > AltiVec (Velocity Engine, as Apple calls it). That gives it a tremendous > speed boost on G4 systems. And if you run it on a dual processor G4, it > really screams. No matter how many platforms Adobe ports it to, Photoshop > is, and will always be a Mac application. Processor performance and > everything else aside, Photoshop is deisgned from the ground up for the Mac, > and adapted to run on Windows. Ahh, A G4. Yea, forgot about the vector processor. Of coures, in real life most things *I* do don't anything that'd use it. Otherwise, I think I'd win. This is the same reason an Astronautics ZS-1 at 25 or 33MHz could outperform a P-IV 1GHz for some vector ops... But most 'real-life' non-graphical or simulation/calculator type applications can't make advantage of it. If you're looking for REALLY bad Price/Performance ratios for "standard stuff," look at Sun's Blade 100s. I swear that an 300MHz Sun Ultra 5 is just as fast (and a helluva lot cheaper). -- Pat From dtwright at uiuc.edu Thu Aug 15 09:27:00 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: 'Windowing' programs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020815142645.GC1851034@uiuc.edu> Patrick Finnegan said: > > If you're looking for REALLY bad Price/Performance ratios for "standard > stuff," look at Sun's Blade 100s. I swear that an 300MHz Sun Ultra 5 is > just as fast (and a helluva lot cheaper). Huh? The Blade 100 is dirt cheap! Cheaper then a new Ultra 5! unless you're talking about getting a used U5, and then well, I guess you have a point... Not that I'd buy either one anyway... the UltraSparc III workstations are the way to go. Sunblade 1000 or better for sure for my money :) > > -- Pat - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From bqt at update.uu.se Thu Aug 15 09:44:01 2002 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: PDP 11/70, XXDP diagnostics & OT question In-Reply-To: <3D5664E6.B389F57B@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Aug 2002, The Wanderer wrote: > Hello All, > > Well, finally I have my 11/70 fully running. The last problem I had was > due to a > faulty cable (wire?) in one of the address cables going to the address > buffer of the MOS box. Congratulations. > I can now boot XXDP from an RL02, but unfortunately, my overview of > executable diagnostic routines is not covering the 11/70. > > Is there someone who has the names of the diags I can execute to > validate the machine? Let's see... DEKBA, DEKBB (CPU diagnostics part 1 and 2) DEKBC, DEKBD (Cache diagnostics part 1 and 2) DEKBE (Memory Management Diagnostic) DEKBF (Unibus Map Diagnostic) DEKBG (Power-Fail Test) DEQKC (11/70 Instruction Exerciser) DEMJA (PDP-11/70 Memory Test) CEMKAA (PDP-11/70 Memory Diagnostic) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Aug 15 09:49:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: 'Windowing' programs In-Reply-To: <20020815142645.GC1851034@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Dan Wright wrote: > Patrick Finnegan said: > > > > If you're looking for REALLY bad Price/Performance ratios for "standard > > stuff," look at Sun's Blade 100s. I swear that an 300MHz Sun Ultra 5 is > > just as fast (and a helluva lot cheaper). > > Huh? The Blade 100 is dirt cheap! Cheaper then a new Ultra 5! unless you're > talking about getting a used U5, and then well, I guess you have a point... > > Not that I'd buy either one anyway... the UltraSparc III workstations are the > way to go. Sunblade 1000 or better for sure for my money :) Well, would it suprise you that in CPU/memory performance, my friend's PIII-600MHz Dell beat the Blade 100 in performance? Well, in one or two tests, the Blade 100 edged out the P-III by at best 1%. What annoys me is that Purdue is buying loads of them to replace the U5's in computer labs... I should have the benchmark results here: http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~finnegpt/benchmarks/ -- Pat From dtwright at uiuc.edu Thu Aug 15 09:58:00 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: 'Windowing' programs In-Reply-To: References: <20020815142645.GC1851034@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <20020815145803.GB1854367@uiuc.edu> Patrick Finnegan said: > > Well, would it suprise you that in CPU/memory performance, my friend's > PIII-600MHz Dell beat the Blade 100 in performance? Well, in one or two > tests, the Blade 100 edged out the P-III by at best 1%. What annoys me is > that Purdue is buying loads of them to replace the U5's in computer > labs... No, that doesn't suprise me. Well, I suppose it depends on what you're doing... Here, we've found that 450Mhz US-III's beat PIII-800Mhz hands down (price/performance wise, even), but that's doing quantum chemistry calculations that do 64-bit FP math almost exclusively. For more normal things, a PC will almost always give you better price/performace... "C'mon, the Blade is NEWER! it MUST be better!" bah... if they're going to bother, they should buy US-III workstations, where you really are getting something better...the blade 100 is just a cheapened U5, which is really an OLD workstation...4 years old at best. blah... > > I should have the benchmark results here: > > http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~finnegpt/benchmarks/ > > -- Pat > - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From jones at cs.uiowa.edu Thu Aug 15 11:35:00 2002 From: jones at cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: PDP-8I Message-ID: <200208131622.g7DGMxA7018648@penguin.divms.uiowa.edu> I just got this message offering a PDP-8/I to whoever can take it. Please respond to the original sender, not me! Begin forwarded message: > From: "CSAA Library" > Date: Sun Aug 11, 2002 02:01:20 PM US/Central > To: > Subject: PDP-8I > > Mr. Jones > ? > We have a PDP-8I that is complete including two dectape drives, paper > punch reader, paper puncher. It was working until a section of the 4K > RAM shorted out. The case is in fairly good condition. We also have the > Circuit Diagram manuals for it. > ? > I would like to get rid of it. > ? > If you are interested in acquiring it or have any suggestions on how to > publish its availability, I would appreciate hearing from you. > ? > We are located near the eastern end of Puerto Rico at Humacao. > ? > Felix Neussendorfer > (brofelix@hotmail.com or santabad@east-net.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1510 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020815/a2be22d6/attachment.bin From Tom.Marshall at ATK.COM Thu Aug 15 11:35:27 2002 From: Tom.Marshall at ATK.COM (Marshall, Tom) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: cxy-08 baud rate Message-ID: <158A51E8861BD411B69300A0C9AB26E4B662F2@exchangemo.atk.com> Does anyone have info regarding dipswitch settings on the cxy-08? From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Aug 15 11:35:41 2002 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: Atari Unix System V for the TT030's References: <200208102048.g7AKm4dV021812@spies.com> Message-ID: <00ac01c242f1$b3738880$01000001@cvendel> For those who own Atari TT030 workstations, I have finally gotten a hard disk with Atari's version of Unix System V on it running along with a diskette with setboot.prg utility that sets the nvram in the TT030's to recognize and boot from the Unix Hard Disk. If anyone is interested, I can make ghost images of the 300MB SCSI hard disk for you. One word of caution, according the Atari engineer who wrote Atari Unix, it does not work on all TT030's. Some of the units had bugs and issues, most came back into Atari's service center where the -33 68030's were replaced with slower 16mhz CPU's, so while I will guarantee that the image works, I cannot guarantee if your TT will have a problem or not. So far I've tried it out with 3 TT's and they all work. Also Atari Unix will recognize Riebl VME ethernet cards and set them as /dev/en0 so you can hook the TT up to the internet directly. I personally am going to see if I can get Apache to work on the TT as it would be great to run a website for Atari's on an actual Atari computer. If you want a copy, I need a 300mb SCSI HD to Ghost the image to and you pay shipping to and from me. Curt From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Aug 15 11:35:52 2002 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows References: <3D59A87E.F63D9887@allwest.net> Message-ID: <007a01c2432c$b7ca84c0$01000001@cvendel> Actually an article in a 1983 issue of Antic Magazine for Atari Computers had a type in program called "Windows" that let you have pop up boxes with text in them. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Marshall" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 8:46 PM Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows > This may be a bit off topic. > > I received a forwarded message that originated from lindows.com. They > are in a suit with Microsoft regarding the use of "Lindows,com". > Microsoft is suing Lindows for trademark violation. In the message, > Michael Robertson, with Lindows, is looking for old documentation of the > use of the word "windows" and "windowing" prior to 1983. I can't think > of a better resource than this list to find these references. The > relevant part of the forwarded message is quoted below. > > Maybe some of the list members can provide the needed info to > lindows.com > > Martin Marshall > > ________________quote from forwarded > message______________________________________________ > > > > > Microsoft Corp. v. Lindows.com Update > > > > Some of you have sent me email asking for an update on the battle with > Microsoft and wanting to > know how you can help. In case you missed it, Microsoft sued to shut > down Lindows.com earlier in > the year. It was a transparent attempt to stifle the inevitable > competition which Linux represents. > Their allegation was (and is) that they own the trademark for the word > "windows," maintaining that > no other company should be allowed to use the word "windows" -- not > even the "indows" portion. > > > > Of course, there are hundreds of products and companies that use the > word "windows" - and > Microsoft has never filed suit against any of them. That's a huge clue > that this suit has little to do > with trademark confusion. (If you missed any part of the proceedings > to date, visit > http://www.lindows.com/opposition to read the court papers and > summaries.) > > > > Many people have congratulated us, prematurely, on our victory. While > the judicial system did block > their request to shut us down, a trial is looming for April 2003. At > that time, the Judge (or jury) will > decide whether Microsoft has a valid trademark for the word "windows" > and whether the > Lindows.com name is confusing. In the interim, we're moving through > the legal process where > Microsoft is demanding, as part of the discovery process, everything > from our business plan to our > list of partner companies. As you can imagine, it's challenging for a > 39-person company to > compete with a Goliath that has hundreds of people--just in the legal > department alone. This is > where we could use a bit of help from our community of Insiders and > those on our mailing list. > > > > While Microsoft can outspend us with high-priced lawyers and experts, > they cannot buy history. We > know, of course, that the word "windows" had been used in the industry > for years before Microsoft > adopted it in the early 1980s for the name of its windowing interface > product, Microsoft Windows > 1.0. We could, however, use your help in gathering as much evidence as > possible to show the usage > of the words "windows", "window" and "windowing" before and after > 1983, the date Microsoft first > filed its trademark application. If you have magazine or newspaper > articles, academic papers, > journal articles, product manuals, advertisements, textbooks, > dictionaries, or anything else that uses > the terms, we'd like to hear from you. We'd also like to hear from > anyone who had personal > experience in the industry during those early years and can recall the > history of the early > windowing products such as Xerox's Star, VisiCorp's VisiOn, Apple's > Lisa, Digital Research's GEM, > Quarterdeck's DesQ, IBM's TopView, and others. Please email all your > findings to > legal@lindows.com. > > As always, thanks for all your help. > > Michael Robertson > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ____________________ From klaassen at ea1785.org Thu Aug 15 11:36:07 2002 From: klaassen at ea1785.org (Michael Klaassen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: Seagate HD in an Equity II+ Message-ID: <000701c2434c$fa2995c0$1700000a@Rachel> Listmembers - I am desperate to get the data off the hard drive in my old Epson Equity II+. The thing went dead on me last fall and I have spent the last 9 months handing it round to various recovery people who can't figure out what to do with it. The drive appears to be working properly, but the computer won't boot even as far as the BIOS (I think). For a long time it prompted me for the reference diskette, which I presume gave it information about what sort of things it had, but it ceased to be able to read the floppy drive. At this stage I am willing to try just about anything. Michael Klaassen --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From bill at cs.scranton.edu Thu Aug 15 11:36:16 2002 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: SGI Personal Iris's In-Reply-To: <20020813094120.Y22691-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu> Message-ID: <20020813110301.U22691-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu> While I have everyones attention, I also have some SGI Personal Iris's that need to find a new home. Anybody interested? These would also need to be picked up from Scranton, PA. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From vcf at siconic.com Thu Aug 15 11:36:32 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: Need help finding old IBM PC game Message-ID: I am trying to help someone find a game that apparently shipped with the IBM PC. Below is the description. -- First of all thank you very much for offering to help. This game is a crossing between mastermind and trivial pursuit.The graphics were extremely simple, similar to the mastermind board. The purpose of the game was to guess or identify a famous person or event?with the fewest hints or clues given. The lesser hints needed the more points scored, and I think there were up to 5 (I'm not so sure about the actual number) clues given, if unable to recognize the identity, well, your score wasn?t very high and you were given the right answer and passed on to the next clue. e.g. 1. shot from behind during the performance of Our American Cousin and then hints no.2, 3, 4 & 5?would be even more obvious, gradually disclosing more information in the?following clues.? So this game is different, because in similar games you know the character or the event and you just have to choose a correct answer among four or five options, so there is not much of a challenge, you end up guessing, not identifying which makes it much more interesting. It was a preloaded software game included in the brand new IBM pcs here in Mexico during the mid 90's. It was called "Pistas" , Spanish word for?"clues" or "hints". ??I tried contacting IBM, both here in Mexico and USA, but unless I give them exact model (and almost serial number) of the machine I saw it in, they cannot help me. Unfortunately, I didn't pay much attention to the pc itself since I came across this game a lot in demo pcs all over town. I never imagined they would suddenly stop using it , and when I called them, it simply got me nowhere. -- Any idea what game this person is talking about? And if so, anyone know where to get a copy? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bill at cs.scranton.edu Thu Aug 15 11:36:47 2002 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: Old Sun (& SGI) Equipment Available [Last Call] In-Reply-To: <20020813094120.Y22691-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu> Message-ID: <20020814094905.E24997-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu> On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Bill Gunshannon wrote: Will no one save this stuff from the dumpster?? Amazing! Oh well, anything not claimed by next week goes out. A shame to see these classics go that way, but the boss says we can't afford the space to store them. I have SparcStation 1's I have SparcServer 330's and even a Sun4/something that was in a 7' high rack and includes a 9 track tape drive (which worked quite well the last time I used it.) A SparcPrinter (sometimes it has a problem picking up paper, but this is usually just dirty rollers. I have a spare toner cartridge and drum for this.) I also have 5-6 SGI Personal Irises. All of this stuff is at the University of Scranton and would need to be picked up. It's free, although I wouldn't turn down some PDP or VAX trinkets (expcept async boards :-) in exchange. Please reply directly to me. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From Israel.Sanchez at lackland.af.mil Thu Aug 15 11:37:12 2002 From: Israel.Sanchez at lackland.af.mil (Sanchez Israel Civ 37SUPS/LGSCE) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: 6X64SYPC100 RAM module Message-ID: <81A8B8BCB29BD511A2BB00B0D0D1C9AD486D04@fsmpls04.lackland.af.mil> I am trying to indentify a ram module for replacement. It is a 168-pin DIMM. I has a total of 16 chips on it (8 in front, 8 in back) There is a stick-on tag that reads: 16X64SYPC100 882010 B A R C O D E Warranty VOID if Removed 12/99 0773 00011 On the back (center) if reads: M500PCG REV A PCSDRAM REV 1.0 I don't see a name anywhere. Thanks, Israel From aek at spies.com Thu Aug 15 11:37:27 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:40 2005 Subject: Old Sun (& SGI) Equipment Available [Last Call] Message-ID: <200208142128.g7ELSGl8029484@spies.com> > Will no one save this stuff from the dumpster?? Amazing! -- Not amazing at all. How many people are near Scranton? At least keep the 9 track. It's not THAT big, and can read 800->6250 tapes. If not, could I at least get the BOARDS out of the tape drive (esp the read/write board, which is fairly hard to get) From classiccmp at hexamon.org Thu Aug 15 11:37:37 2002 From: classiccmp at hexamon.org (Francis Bell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: RL01 termination pack pinout References: Message-ID: <3D5ABDA0.2050100@hexamon.org> Just to clarify, the following is the pinout of a terminator that works with an RL01 drive. It *should* work fine with an RL02 since the same interface card works with both, so unless there's some oddity about the RL02, this should do the trick: Opening the pack, there is a single large resistor pack, 40 pin. Looking at the back of the resistor pack (i.e. looking at the outside of the RL01 drive connector) the pack is marked with pin numbers; pin1 is at the bottom right, pin 2 is at the top right, pin 39 is at the bottom left and pin 40 is at the top left. Pin 39 has been cut. All other pins are connected. The resistor pack part number is 13-13242-00 SSM 7934 Neither side appears to have commoned pins. Each opposing pair of pins has 160 ohm between them (i.e. between pins 1-2, 3-4, 5-6 etc.) Obviously 39-40 is open circuit. I think it would be easy to make using a 40 way pcb-mount idc header with some shrink sleeving as the terminator isn't subject to any mechanical strain (unlike the cable). You could then attach this to the 40-way IDC socket which normally plugs into the DEC connector on the inside of the drive, and you would then just be using the external DEC connector as a seal to stop dust, etc from entering the unit. Even though the RL01 seems quite tolerant to the ingress of dust, (some of the maintenance procedures involve running the drive the the covers off) it doesn't do to take any unnecessary chances with kit this old. Hope this helps, Francis ---- Patrick Finnegan wrote: >I'd much appreciate that if possible. I'm thinking it just is a set of >resistors from each signal line to +ve volts somewhere (or maybe ground), >and there's just a set of open-collector drivers to drive the lines (thus >why it does nothing without one). > >Thanks! > >-- Pat > >On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Francis Bell wrote: > > > >>If you don't get an pinout anywhere else, I have an RL01 terminator >>here that I can take apart... AFAIK the cables and terminators are identical >>since it's the same controller for both. >> >>Regards, >> >>Francis >>---- >> >> > > > > From sieler at allegro.com Thu Aug 15 11:37:52 2002 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Hardware in Sweden In-Reply-To: <4C5733EA-AFA6-11D6-86BE-000393476F6E@melin.org> References: <200208041933.PAA61121068@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <3D5A82E5.27465.B50FCE6@localhost> Re: > just wanted to let you all know that if someone here is from sweden or > want to get rid of old hardware then please let me know. I collect old ... > I assume that most of you guys live in the US but still, one or two > more of us maybe live in sweden so I just thought I'd make myself known. Joacim, I'd be interested in finding how to get hardware shipped *from* Sweden! Tak, Stan -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Aug 15 12:07:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Need help finding old IBM PC game In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > It was a preloaded software game included in the brand new IBM pcs here > in Mexico during the mid 90's. It was called "Pistas" , Spanish word > -- > Any idea what game this person is talking about? And if so, anyone know > where to get a copy? Well, DONKEY was the only game that was included with IBM PCs (5150) in the US, although there were a couple of other "entertaining" BASIC demo programs included. "during the mid 90s"?!? That would surely be a model other than "PC", wouldn't it? From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Aug 15 12:20:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: OT-DIY CPU's References: Message-ID: <3D5BE1DA.6000806@jetnet.ab.ca> Peter C. Wallace wrote: > Our firmware is in assembler, the problem is what version of the > assembler, since the CPU may change daily... I do pretty well know the opcodes > in hex, ( I deliberately made add = AXXXXh, NOP = 0000h) but whenever I change > some bit field definition I forget what the machine code looks like anymore... Hex what is that. OCTAL is the way to go! Ban all 8/16/32/64 bit computers ... Bring back 18/36 and 12/24 cpu's! A 18 bit PDP-11 would have been so nice! > My CPU sort of looks like a pipelined 16 bit PIC so architecture wise > it dates from an on-topic time... > I designing a 12/24 bit cpu that is in the 1980-1985 time frame. http://www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html We have a lot of 16 bit cpu's so what is the advantage of your design over others. 64K byte memory is the minumum useful memory for a computer. 12K operating system, 48K data & program space. While that is two chips nowdays for 32KB ram / 32 rom memory even for a controler that is limited memory. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Thu Aug 15 12:26:01 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: cxy-08 baud rate Message-ID: >Does anyone have info regarding dipswitch settings on the cxy-08? There are two switch packs. With the board facing you and the Qbus connectors downwards, the lefthand switch pack (10 switches) is E36 and the righthand one (8 switches) is E28. They may even be labelled. E36 switches 2->10 set A12->A04 for the address. A21-A13 are all 1s (not settable). A03-A00 are all 0s (not settable). E36 switch 1 sets DHU mode (off) or DHV mode (switch on) E28 switch 1 must be on E28 switch 2 must be off E28 switches 3-8 set the vector V08->V03 V15->V09 and V02->V00 are all 0s. Standard settings are 17760440 and 300 (both in octal). Antonio From foo at siconic.com Thu Aug 15 12:43:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell on EPay In-Reply-To: <3D5B6141.6856.246FC16@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Some people on the list were declaiming how valueless the Bell and Howells > and Apples in general were. Check out > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2044128294 > > At $400 with still time to go for the snipers, and in a slow market. Just because a pair or group of over-zealous bidders decide to jack up the price of a turd, it doesn't necessarily mean it's worth that to most or even any other people. Bell & Howell Apple ]['s are not rare. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Aug 15 12:44:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: cxy-08 baud rate In-Reply-To: <158A51E8861BD411B69300A0C9AB26E4B662F2@exchangemo.atk.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Marshall, Tom wrote: > Does anyone have info regarding dipswitch settings on the cxy-08? What is a cxy-08? Some type of modem I presume? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Aug 15 12:46:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Seagate HD in an Equity II+ In-Reply-To: <000701c2434c$fa2995c0$1700000a@Rachel> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Michael Klaassen wrote: > I am desperate to get the data off the hard drive in my old Epson > Equity II+. The thing went dead on me last fall and I have spent the > last 9 months handing it round to various recovery people who can't > figure out what to do with it. The drive appears to be working properly, > but the computer won't boot even as far as the BIOS (I think). For a > long time it prompted me for the reference diskette, which I presume > gave it information about what sort of things it had, but it ceased to > be able to read the floppy drive. Have you tried booting it in a different machine? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Aug 15 12:49:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Need help finding old IBM PC game In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > It was a preloaded software game included in the brand new IBM pcs here > > in Mexico during the mid 90's. It was called "Pistas" , Spanish word > > -- > > Any idea what game this person is talking about? And if so, anyone know > > where to get a copy? > > Well, DONKEY was the only game that was included with IBM PCs (5150) in > the US, although there were a couple of other "entertaining" BASIC demo > programs included. > > "during the mid 90s"?!? That would surely be a model other than "PC", > wouldn't it? You know, I missed that. I was assuming they were referring to the original PCs. BTW, I posted that message a couple nights ago. Message approval is awfully slow around here. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Aug 15 12:50:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Need help finding old IBM PC game In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020815135041.44774712@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:06 PM 8/13/02 -0700, you wrote: > >Any idea what game this person is talking about? And if so, anyone know >where to get a copy? I was in a surplus store today and saw a package today that had a disk and several manuals for a game called "Clues" but it was for the C-64. I didn't read the manuals so I don't know anything about the game.rer BUT I did find a 6 inch high stack of manuals for the RCA Cosmac VIP :-) :-) :-) :-) Joe From mythtech at mac.com Thu Aug 15 12:55:01 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell on EPay Message-ID: >Bell & Howell Apple ]['s are not rare. I want one :-( But despite how much I want one, it isn't worth $600 to me... anyone got one they want to give me? -chris From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Aug 15 13:33:01 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: OT-DIY CPU's In-Reply-To: <3D5BE1DA.6000806@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > > Our firmware is in assembler, the problem is what version of the > > assembler, since the CPU may change daily... I do pretty well know the opcodes > > in hex, ( I deliberately made add = AXXXXh, NOP = 0000h) but whenever I change > > some bit field definition I forget what the machine code looks like anymore... > > Hex what is that. OCTAL is the way to go! > Ban all 8/16/32/64 bit computers ... Bring back 18/36 and 12/24 cpu's! > A 18 bit PDP-11 would have been so nice! > > > My CPU sort of looks like a pipelined 16 bit PIC so architecture wise > > it dates from an on-topic time... > > > I designing a 12/24 bit cpu that is in the 1980-1985 time frame. > http://www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > > We have a lot of 16 bit cpu's so what is the advantage of your design over > others. 64K byte memory is the minumum useful memory for a computer. 12K > operating system, 48K data & program space. While that is two chips nowdays > for 32KB ram / 32 rom memory even for a controler that is limited memory. > Well actually we considered a 24 bit design, Heck I like 24 bit designs, and since our application is motor control, 24 bits is fine for most position ranges, but for a simple pipelined (1 clock per inst) RISCy Harvard architecture processor you get into this tradeoff that depends on how much of your code does math where the 24 bits is an advantage and how much is simple logic or I/O where 8 bits would be preferable. !6 bits seems about the right compromise for us. BTW we only have 1K or 2K of program and RAM space (all BlockRAM on chip ) If we had to use external RAM we would do things another way. As it is we have a 4 axis servo motion controller with quadrature inputs, PWM outputs, 32 bit motion parameters, 64 bit accell and velocity DDAs, PID+Accel and Vel feed forward control loop, position and programable external event breakpoints, parabolic and cubic rampup-slew-rampdown profiles and s sample rate (all 4 axis in motion) of about 35 usec, not bad for a $19.55 FPGA chip... > > > Peter Wallace From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Thu Aug 15 13:36:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: cxy-08 baud rate Message-ID: >What is a cxy-08? Some type of modem I presume? It's an 8 line asynch card for Q-bus machines (VAXen and PDP-11 at least). Antonio From univac2 at earthlink.net Thu Aug 15 13:38:00 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: 'Windowing' programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 8/15/02 8:58 AM, Patrick Finnegan at pat@purdueriots.com wrote: > Ahh, A G4. Yea, forgot about the vector processor. Of coures, in real > life most things *I* do don't anything that'd use it. Otherwise, I think > I'd win. > > This is the same reason an Astronautics ZS-1 at 25 or 33MHz could > outperform a P-IV 1GHz for some vector ops... But most 'real-life' > non-graphical or simulation/calculator type applications can't make > advantage of it. Actually, Mac OS X itself makes good use of it. Later this month, when the latest version is released, the graphics system (Quartz) will push all graphics tasks onto AltiVec or, if possible, the graphics processor. It makes pretty good use AltiVec now. Which is why with all the eye-candy like transparency and pulsating controls and such, the interface always responds perfectly, even when the system is busy. And a lot of Mac OS X apps are optimized for AltiVec, if they have any use for it. -- Owen Robertson From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 15 13:43:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: RL01 termination pack pinout In-Reply-To: <3D5ABDA0.2050100@hexamon.org> from "Francis Bell" at Aug 14, 2 09:29:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1629 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020815/03d9d959/attachment.ksh From voyager at iols.net Thu Aug 15 14:25:00 2002 From: voyager at iols.net (Mark Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: 6X64SYPC100 RAM module In-Reply-To: <81A8B8BCB29BD511A2BB00B0D0D1C9AD486D04@fsmpls04.lackland.a f.mil> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020815120032.031891f0@mail.iols.net> IIRC the 16x64 will mean that this is a 128Mb DIMM. (16Mb x 64 bits wide/ 8 bits per byte) Likely a PC-100 DIMM, from the PC100 part. Mark At Wednesday 04:02 PM-0500 8/14/02, you wrote: >I am trying to indentify a ram module for replacement. > >It is a 168-pin DIMM. > >I has a total of 16 chips on it (8 in front, 8 in back) >There is a stick-on tag that reads: > >16X64SYPC100 882010 > B A R C O D E >Warranty VOID if Removed >12/99 0773 00011 > >On the back (center) if reads: > >M500PCG REV A >PCSDRAM REV 1.0 > >I don't see a name anywhere. > >Thanks, >Israel From voyager at iols.net Thu Aug 15 14:27:00 2002 From: voyager at iols.net (Mark Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Dynalogic Hyperion Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020812201431.00a73130@mail.iols.net> Hi - Firing up an old Dynalogic Hyperion I have here, anyone into those here? Thanks! Mark From thompson at new.rr.com Thu Aug 15 14:35:01 2002 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Cleaning old IBM 150mb tapes In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020815122354.028f7160@pop.latrobe.edu.au> Message-ID: Yes there was a kit with alcohol On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Andrew Vincent wrote: > Dear All, > > I was wondering if anyone might have any suggestions on how to clean old > IBM 150mb tapes? I know IBM made a tape-drive cleaning tape, but did they > make a tape cleaning kit? > > Thanks in advance. > Andrew > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Andrew Vincent > Research Information Systems Officer > Research and Graduate Studies Office > La Trobe University > Bundoora, 3083 > Australia > +61 3 9479 1581 (voice) > +61 3 9479 1464 (fax) > web: www.latrobe.edu.au/rgso > ------------------------------------------------------------- > -- From thompson at new.rr.com Thu Aug 15 14:36:01 2002 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: cxy-08 baud rate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Supported with QBUS MIPS, too. On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > >What is a cxy-08? Some type of modem I presume? > > It's an 8 line asynch card for Q-bus machines > (VAXen and PDP-11 at least). > > Antonio > -- From kentborg at borg.org Thu Aug 15 16:00:00 2002 From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: LA34 Questions Message-ID: <20020815165932.C13154@borg.org> I recently came into a DEC LA34-AA, a.k.a., Decwriter IV (Thanks Phil!), and have some questions. I think I finally figured out how to load paper into the tractorfeed, and the machine looks intact and in pretty good shape for a nearly 25 year old printer. The problem is that on powering on I get beeping and the Power/Fault LEd blinks. The manual suggests that this is an out of paper problem. Suggestions? I have managed to dismantle the big parts of the printer, and I don't see any obviously dirty switches or sensors. Thanks, -kb, the Kent who wonders whether it is time to run circuit boards through the dishwasher. From cpg at aladdin.de Thu Aug 15 16:12:00 2002 From: cpg at aladdin.de (Christian Groessler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Z8000 was Re: Olivetti M20 boot prom dump? Message-ID: <87znvnvnhi.fsf@gibbon.cnet.aladdin.de> On 08/13/2002 08:15:48 AM MST Marvin Johnston wrote: > >What is the relation between the Z8000 and M20? The Z8001 is the processor used in the M20 machine. > I have the PDS Z8000 and a number of disks, but no manuals to speak >of except the Z8000 Development Module Hardware Reference Manual >(looks more like a user manual.) What is the "PDS Z8000"? regards, chris From foo at siconic.com Thu Aug 15 16:42:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Dynalogic Hyperion In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020812201431.00a73130@mail.iols.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Mark Willis wrote: > Hi - Firing up an old Dynalogic Hyperion I have here, anyone into those > here? Thanks! I've got one but haven't had a chance to play with it. Neat machine. Beat's Compaq by a few months for the first PC-compatible luggable (although I suppose someone will come out and say it wasn't 100% compatible). Looks like a miniature Lisa 1 :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk Thu Aug 15 17:13:00 2002 From: celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Copying tapes on a VT103? Message-ID: <3D5C2789.7B1C1E3B@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> I received a query today about how to copy one tape to another on a Digital VT103. I've included the details from the original message below. Does anyone know how to do this? --quote-- We use a Digital VT103 unit to control one of our machines, the system is fine for the application, but we only have one copy of the tape with the boot program and application programs on. The VT103 unit has two tape drives and I think you can copy from one to the other it just a matter of knowing the correct commands, hence the reason for this email. Therefore I would be most grateful for any suggestions you could suggest for the commands required to copy from drive 0 to drive 1, we have so far tried the following: Note :- RT11FB.SYS = Boot program (I think) i) COPY/BOOT RT11FB.SYS TO: DD1 ii) COPY/SYS FROM? DD0 TO? DD1 The second method kicks up the following: - PIP-F-FILE NOT FOUND --endquote-- - Paul From claudew at videotron.ca Thu Aug 15 17:40:01 2002 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Dynalogic Hyperion Message-ID: <008401c244a0$758064c0$0400a8c0@Gamer_Charles> The hyperion I found had a HD installed inside with a HD controller card from some company (cant remember the name) quite a tight fit....also someone "hacked" a standard floppy drive into the case...not a perfect job... Claude -----Original Message----- From: Mark Willis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date: Thursday, August 15, 2002 3:27 PM Subject: Dynalogic Hyperion >Hi - Firing up an old Dynalogic Hyperion I have here, anyone into those >here? Thanks! > > Mark > From classiccmp at crash.com Thu Aug 15 17:53:00 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M. Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: LA34 Questions Message-ID: <200208152253.g7FMrG214332@io.crash.com> Kent Borg wrote: . > I recently came into a DEC LA34-AA, a.k.a., Decwriter IV [...] Sorry, no suggestions for the fault you're seeing beyond what you're doing. Wanted to say I've recently acquired one as well, in working condition. If you'd like me to examine some part of it or snap a quick picture, let me know. I could use a new print head for it, in case anybody's sitting on some, or could recommend a reasonable source. I also need to find a tensioning spring for the right side tractor... Time to find/visit the local typewriter/sewing machine repair shop, I guess. --Steve. Steve Jones smj@spamfree.crash.com Arlington, Mass. CRASH!! Computing www.crash.com/people/smj "Your information doesn't sleep. Why should your programmers?" From rschaefe at gcfn.org Thu Aug 15 18:36:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: SGI Personal Iris's References: <20020813110301.U22691-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu> Message-ID: <009301c244b4$a704b1e0$83469280@y5f3q8> Wah! Two months earlier, and I could have gotten them on my way through. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Gunshannon" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 11:05 AM Subject: SGI Personal Iris's > > While I have everyones attention, I also have some SGI Personal Iris's > that need to find a new home. > > Anybody interested? These would also need to be picked up from > Scranton, PA. > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From blstuart at bellsouth.net Thu Aug 15 18:46:00 2002 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 13 Aug 2002 20:51:26 -0400 . <007a01c2432c$b7ca84c0$01000001@cvendel> Message-ID: I've done a little digging in my spotty library. (It's so nice to finally have enough shelves for all the books.) And I've come across a few additional references thay may be of some help. The first references come from a set of inter-office memoranda from Xerox dated in 1978 and included phrases such as "window-based display," "window- oriented display," "windows with standard behavior" and "non-preemptive window behavior." These memoranda are discussions about a programming environment and mention that both Smalltalk and Mesa already had window-based environemnts at the time. The next reference comes from Interface Age magazine, July 1981. In the article "The Video Display Revolution," Table 2 lists features of various terminals. One feature listed for the HDS Concept 100 terminal is Windowing. The last reference I came across prior to 1983 is in the August 1980 issue of Byte. In an ad for Software Development and Training, Inc., a text editor is described as having "FULL SCREEN window displays..." Not all of the references described windows as we currently think of them, but they do illustrate that the term was in general us in the field of computer user interfaces well before Microsoft trademarked it. Brian L. Stuart From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Aug 15 18:56:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Dynalogic Hyperion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Hi - Firing up an old Dynalogic Hyperion I have here, anyone into those > > here? Thanks! On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > I've got one but haven't had a chance to play with it. > Neat machine. Beat's Compaq by a few months for the first PC-compatible > luggable (although I suppose someone will come out and say it wasn't 100% > compatible). > Looks like a miniature Lisa 1 :) Wasn't that one of the ones that IBM shut down for being TOO compatible? The only one from that period that approached 100% compatability would be the Coby (luggable case resembling an Otrona for holding an IBM motherboard) From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Aug 15 19:02:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows Message-ID: <200208160001.RAA12179@clulw009.amd.com> >From: blstuart@bellsouth.net > >I've done a little digging in my spotty library. (It's so >nice to finally have enough shelves for all the books.) >And I've come across a few additional references thay may >be of some help. The first references come from a set >of inter-office memoranda from Xerox dated in 1978 and >included phrases such as "window-based display," "window- >oriented display," "windows with standard behavior" and >"non-preemptive window behavior." These memoranda are >discussions about a programming environment and mention >that both Smalltalk and Mesa already had window-based >environemnts at the time. > >The next reference comes from Interface Age magazine, July >1981. In the article "The Video Display Revolution," Table 2 >lists features of various terminals. One feature listed for >the HDS Concept 100 terminal is Windowing. > >The last reference I came across prior to 1983 is in the >August 1980 issue of Byte. In an ad for Software Development >and Training, Inc., a text editor is described as having >"FULL SCREEN window displays..." > >Not all of the references described windows as we currently >think of them, but they do illustrate that the term was >in general us in the field of computer user interfaces >well before Microsoft trademarked it. > >Brian L. Stuart > Hi All of this about prior use may not help. Trademarks are different than patents. There is also precedence that similar sounding trade names with similar product can be considered a violation of trademarks. ( McDonald's has won a few of these ). If they had the name before M$ then they might have a case, otherwise, I doubt they will get vary far. If the court feels that they chose the name to sound alike, they will not win, regardless of prior usage. It is too bad, I'd like to see M$ take a hit on this one. ( Just my opinion and not a legal statement ) Dwight From dpeschel at eskimo.com Thu Aug 15 19:16:00 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows In-Reply-To: <200208160001.RAA12179@clulw009.amd.com>; from dwightk.elvey@amd.com on Thu, Aug 15, 2002 at 05:01:51PM -0700 References: <200208160001.RAA12179@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20020815171540.B22395@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Thu, Aug 15, 2002 at 05:01:51PM -0700, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > All of this about prior use may not help. Trademarks are different > than patents. There is also precedence that similar sounding > trade names with similar product can be considered a violation > of trademarks. ( McDonald's has won a few of these ). If they > had the name before M$ then they might have a case, otherwise, > I doubt they will get vary far. If the court feels that they > chose the name to sound alike, they will not win, regardless > of prior usage. Do you know of any rulings that said the owner of a trademark shouldn't have had the right to it in the first place? -- Derek From foo at siconic.com Thu Aug 15 21:11:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Dynalogic Hyperion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Wasn't that one of the ones that IBM shut down for being TOO compatible? I think that was the Corona Data Systems one. They just copied the ROMs from what I've been told. > The only one from that period that approached 100% compatability would be > the Coby (luggable case resembling an Otrona for holding an IBM > motherboard) Never heard of it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Aug 15 21:15:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows In-Reply-To: <200208160001.RAA12179@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > of trademarks. ( McDonald's has won a few of these ). If they > had the name before M$ then they might have a case, otherwise, > I doubt they will get vary far. If the court feels that they Even that doesn't always guarantee success. The courts usually side with the company that has more money (i.e. larger legal team). A woman named Sony who ran a cafe (I think in New York) got sued by Sony and had to change the name of her cafe from "Sony's" to something else. > chose the name to sound alike, they will not win, regardless > of prior usage. I think that's probably the best argument MS has here. Lindows was meant to reference to Windows. > It is too bad, I'd like to see M$ take a hit on this one. > ( Just my opinion and not a legal statement ) Ditto. Maybe one of the Lindows principles can legally change their name to "Lindows", so like John Smith can become "Lindows Smith" or maybe even "John Lindows Smith". It actually sounds pretty good as a name. I'll consider it for my first born :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Aug 15 21:24:00 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Dynalogic Hyperion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > Wasn't that one of the ones that IBM shut down for being TOO compatible? > > I think that was the Corona Data Systems one. They just copied the ROMs > from what I've been told. > > > The only one from that period that approached 100% compatability would be > > the Coby (luggable case resembling an Otrona for holding an IBM > > motherboard) That was a 'Colby' I think... > > Never heard of it. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > Peter Wallace From mythtech at mac.com Thu Aug 15 21:41:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Dynalogic Hyperion Message-ID: >> Wasn't that one of the ones that IBM shut down for being TOO compatible? > >I think that was the Corona Data Systems one. They just copied the ROMs >from what I've been told. Does this mean my Corona luggable will sell for huge $$$ on ePay? Oh why oh why did I give my complete one to Dave :-( -chris From mythtech at mac.com Thu Aug 15 21:46:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows Message-ID: >Do you know of any rulings that said the owner of a trademark >shouldn't have had the right to it in the first place? I don't know of any, but if I'm not mistaken, the first judge that has seen this case specifically questioned if MS should have been granted a trademark for such a common term. Some case always has to be a first case... maybe they will get lucky and this will be it (wouldn't that be great... the "Windows" trademark gets revoked and a million fly by night companies pop up with 3rd rate OS knock offs called Windows, all in the hopes of catching some of the "idiot" market that doesn't realize it isn't MS Windows) -chris From jbmcb at hotmail.com Fri Aug 16 09:39:01 2002 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell on EPay References: Message-ID: Wow, I didn't think mine was worth *anything* Using Ebay math, $559.00 at ending *0.05 == $27.95. Yay! It's worth $28. Is there a classic computer price list / blue book? Not that I'd sell the machines I like that are particularly rare. The only boxen I have that are probably worth anything are: Data General Nova III - With serial board and disk controller. My oldest machine. Mattel Aquarius - Not super rare, but they did stop making them before they even hit the market Bell & Howell Apple II - Again, not super rare, but odd enough to be worth something. Tandy TRS-1000 - Complete with hard case, modem and tape. Not rare but popular. IBM PS/2 Model P70 - Luggable with sweet gas plasma display. Macintosh Portable - Hehe, at least Apple learns from it's mistakes. First Apple portable, not including the IIc :) Apple IIc+ - IIc with 3.5" floppy, faster proc, and built-in power supply. Only made for a year or so. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 5:42 AM Subject: Re: Bell & Howell on EPay > On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > Some people on the list were declaiming how valueless the Bell and Howells > > and Apples in general were. Check out > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2044128294 > > > > At $400 with still time to go for the snipers, and in a slow market. > > Just because a pair or group of over-zealous bidders decide to jack up the > price of a turd, it doesn't necessarily mean it's worth that to most or > even any other people. > > Bell & Howell Apple ]['s are not rare. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Aug 16 11:30:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Dynalogic Hyperion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Wasn't that [Dynalogic Hyperion] one of the ones that IBM shut down > for being TOO compatible? > I think that was the Corona Data Systems one. They just copied the ROMs > from what I've been told. Corona Data Systems was ONE of about half a dozen that IBM went after in one particular infringement fit. They survived long enough to become Cordata and make other products. Several of the other recipients of IBM's wrath did NOT survive. One of those was a "Hyperion". > > The only one from that period that approached 100% compatability would be > > the Coby (luggable case resembling an Otrona for holding an IBM > > motherboard) > Never heard of it. [I think that that should have been CoLby?] Ah HA! another machine that Sellam doesn't have! I think that I saw one a few years ago. You're not going to like WHERE. (VCF) From mhscc at canada.com Fri Aug 16 14:26:00 2002 From: mhscc at canada.com (MHStein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Dynalogic Hyperion Message-ID: <000b01c2455a$fe0c7e40$30e6059a@msed03> Probably not much longer, but yeah, I've got a couple along with various S/W and manuals. Enjoy! mike Message: 15 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 12:25:47 -0700 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: Mark Willis Subject: Dynalogic Hyperion Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org --=======1E6E5C06======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-32A32356; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi - Firing up an old Dynalogic Hyperion I have here, anyone into those here? Thanks! Mark ------------------------------------------- Introducing NetZero Long Distance Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month! Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com From mhscc at canada.com Fri Aug 16 14:48:00 2002 From: mhscc at canada.com (MHStein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: SGI Personal Iris's Message-ID: <001401c2455e$1defeaa0$30e6059a@msed03> Some interesting SGI (and VAX) applications: home.planet.nl/~mourits/koelkast m ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Schaefer" Subject: Re: SGI Personal Iris's Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 19:36:59 -0400 Wah! Two months earlier, and I could have gotten them on my way through. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Gunshannon" Subject: SGI Personal Iris's > > While I have everyones attention, I also have some SGI Personal Iris's > that need to find a new home. > > Anybody interested? These would also need to be picked up from > Scranton, PA. > > bill ------------------------------------------- Introducing NetZero Long Distance Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month! Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Aug 16 15:29:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: FA: Tektronic 4041 GP-IB controller/computer, RCA VIP manuals, RS/6000 User's Guide, DG Nova 4 parts, etc Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020816163050.42ffdb4c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi, I've been cleaning up around the house and I've just finished listing a whole bunch of stuff on E-bay. Included are five books of manuals for the RCA Cosmac VIP computer, a user's Guide for the IBM RS/6000, several boards for the Data General Nova 4, a Tektronix 4041 GP-IB controller/computer combined with a TM 5003 mainframe, an AMS 68000 emulator pod, a Sweet-P plotter from HeathKit and other odds and ends. If you're instereted in any of it, check it out at . Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Aug 16 15:35:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: SGI Personal Iris's In-Reply-To: <001401c2455e$1defeaa0$30e6059a@msed03> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020816163537.3447e99a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> LOL! He really does like to modify the "hardware", doesn't he? Is that a real Espressigo? Joe At 03:50 PM 8/16/02 -0400, you wrote: >Some interesting SGI (and VAX) applications: > >home.planet.nl/~mourits/koelkast > >m > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Robert Schaefer" >Subject: Re: SGI Personal Iris's >Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 19:36:59 -0400 > >Wah! Two months earlier, and I could have gotten them on my way >through. > >Bob > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bill Gunshannon" >Subject: SGI Personal Iris's > > >> >> While I have everyones attention, I also have some SGI Personal >Iris's >> that need to find a new home. >> >> Anybody interested? These would also need to be picked up from >> Scranton, PA. >> >> bill > > > >------------------------------------------- >Introducing NetZero Long Distance >Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month! >Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com > From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Fri Aug 16 16:37:01 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: RT-11 Memory Issues Message-ID: <001501c2456d$027d40b0$3200a8c0@winnt> I've finally got this old PDP-11/24 up and running. The system has 1 meg of RAM, but keeps giving insufficient memory errors when trying to run various programs (like ADVENT.) I can't believe that ADVENTure would eat up more than 1 megabyte of ram. Is there some tuning bit that I am missing here? From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Aug 16 17:12:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: RT-11 Memory Issues In-Reply-To: from "Christopher McNabb" at Aug 16, 2002 05:36:40 PM Message-ID: <200208162210.g7GMA3E26402@shell1.aracnet.com> > I've finally got this old PDP-11/24 up and running. The system has 1 meg of > RAM, but keeps giving insufficient memory errors when trying to run various > programs (like ADVENT.) I can't believe that ADVENTure would eat up more > than 1 megabyte of ram. Is there some tuning bit that I am missing here? Which monitor are you running? Also, what version? If running the RT11SJ or RT11FB monitor, try RT11XM. Keep in mind that RT-11 is basically limited to 64k (IIRC), and has to do tricks to use more than that. Zane From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Fri Aug 16 17:56:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: RT-11 Memory Issues References: <200208162210.g7GMA3E26402@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <00a101c24578$07653320$3200a8c0@winnt> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" > Which monitor are you running? Also, what version? If running the RT11SJ or > RT11FB monitor, try RT11XM. Keep in mind that RT-11 is basically limited to > 64k (IIRC), and has to do tricks to use more than that. > I did indeed try RT11XM with the same results. I guess I was hoping that there was some customization I needed to do to expand the amount of memory allocated to user programs. From foo at siconic.com Fri Aug 16 19:46:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Trouble contacting me? Message-ID: BTW, in case anyone has been having trouble contacting me over the past couple of days, I am suffering from DNS woes (i.e. the DNS servers that used to point requests to my server are no longer). I am working on getting new DNS servers up and running and hope to have this fixed by Monday. ACCRC/UsedTech/Aftermath Technologies is also affected, for those of you trying to contact them. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Aug 16 19:47:52 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Dynalogic Hyperion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Chris wrote: > >> Wasn't that one of the ones that IBM shut down for being TOO compatible? > > > >I think that was the Corona Data Systems one. They just copied the ROMs > >from what I've been told. > > Does this mean my Corona luggable will sell for huge $$$ on ePay? Oh why > oh why did I give my complete one to Dave :-( No, it means that it is obscure or forgotten and nobody will even know what they are bidding on and it will languish there and end up costing you the listing fees. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Aug 16 19:48:02 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Dynalogic Hyperion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > > > Wasn't that one of the ones that IBM shut down for being TOO compatible? > > > > I think that was the Corona Data Systems one. They just copied the ROMs > > from what I've been told. > > > > > The only one from that period that approached 100% compatability would be > > > the Coby (luggable case resembling an Otrona for holding an IBM > > > motherboard) > > That was a 'Colby' I think... Never heard of it. http://www.lowendmac.com/clones/colby.html Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dpeschel at eskimo.com Fri Aug 16 19:52:01 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: anyone in Boston or western MA? Message-ID: <20020816175141.A21197@eskimo.eskimo.com> Hi everybody, I'm going to be in Boston for a few days next week and in western Massachusetts (on the way to Tanglewood) next weekend. Is anyone in either of those areas? This will be a nice opportunity for me because I haven't been to VCF East yet and you New Englanders don't seem to want to come to VCF West. :) -- Derek From foo at siconic.com Fri Aug 16 20:09:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:41 2005 Subject: Dynalogic Hyperion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Aug 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Corona Data Systems was ONE of about half a dozen that IBM went after in > one particular infringement fit. They survived long enough to become > Cordata and make other products. Several of the other recipients of IBM's > wrath did NOT survive. One of those was a "Hyperion". Ok, cool. > [I think that that should have been CoLby?] > Ah HA! another machine that Sellam doesn't have! > I think that I saw one a few years ago. You're not going to like > WHERE. (VCF) Oh man, I've had to pass up a lot of good stuff that I saw come through the VCF. First, I am normally way too busy running around to stop and take a moment to haggle, no matter how juicy. Second, and most importantly, I would rather the attendees get the good stuff so they want to come back next year. So no, I don't take advantage of first dibs when vendors start showing up at the VCF (in case you were wondering, and Fred can probably confirm this). I've passed up on some exceedingly cool stuff. Like the $2,000 Apple-1, if you haven't heard that rumor ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Aug 17 04:43:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: Test? Message-ID: I'm recovering from DNS problems. Will I get this message? Oh, just ignore me ;0) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Aug 17 08:12:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: anyone in Boston or western MA? References: <20020816175141.A21197@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <3D5E4BF2.5040100@tiac.net> I'm located in centeral Massachusetts, just over an hour from Boston. Derek Peschel wrote: >Hi everybody, > >I'm going to be in Boston for a few days next week and in western >Massachusetts (on the way to Tanglewood) next weekend. Is anyone >in either of those areas? This will be a nice opportunity for me >because I haven't been to VCF East yet and you New Englanders don't >seem to want to come to VCF West. :) > >-- Derek > From mbg at TheWorld.com Sat Aug 17 10:17:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: RT-11 Memory Issues References: <200208162210.g7GMA3E26402@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <200208171517.LAA73130881@shell.TheWorld.com> >> Which monitor are you running? Also, what version? If running the >>RT11SJ or RT11FB monitor, try RT11XM. Keep in mind that RT-11 is >>basically limited to 64k (IIRC), and has to do tricks to use more than >>that. The problem is that you actually have less memory available when you run XM since it is a larger monitor. And we're talking about memory in the critical area of the low 56kb. >I did indeed try RT11XM with the same results. I guess I was hoping that >there was some customization I needed to do to expand the amount of >memory allocated to user programs. What you need to do is try running the program under XM, but using the 'virtual background executive' program, VBGEXE. This will move the program into extended memory, but the program will see much more available memory in its virtual address space. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at TheWorld.com Sat Aug 17 10:20:01 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: anyone in Boston or western MA? Message-ID: <200208171519.LAA73521623@shell.TheWorld.com> >I'm going to be in Boston for a few days next week and in western >Massachusetts (on the way to Tanglewood) next weekend. Is anyone >in either of those areas? This will be a nice opportunity for me >because I haven't been to VCF East yet and you New Englanders don't >seem to want to come to VCF West. :) I'd love to go to VCF west, but my budget won't allow it... Anyway, I'm located in Framingham, about 15 miles west of boston. Most of my collection is in storage, but you'd be welcome to see it... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at TheWorld.com Sat Aug 17 10:26:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: Copying tapes on a VT103? Message-ID: <200208171525.LAA65805976@shell.TheWorld.com> >The VT103 unit has two tape drives and I think you can copy from one to >the other it just a matter of knowing the correct commands, hence the >reason for this email. Therefore I would be most grateful for any >suggestions you could suggest for the commands required to copy from >drive 0 to drive 1, we have so far tried the following: > >Note :- RT11FB.SYS = Boot program (I think) >i) COPY/BOOT RT11FB.SYS > TO: DD1 >ii) COPY/SYS > FROM? DD0 > TO? DD1 > >The second method kicks up the following: - PIP-F-FILE NOT FOUND If these are the commands as used verbatim, then it is looking for a *file* by the name of DD0. You need to specify the device name, so use 'DD0:'. (I'm surprised it didn't report the name of the file it didn't find.) So, the command should be: COPY/SYS DD0: DD1: Doing this, however, will not result in an optimized tape... it may actually take a relatively long time to boot. I actually got a TU58-based system to boot in as little as 30 seconds by judicious placement of the system files. If you (or other people) are interested, I could write it up... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at TheWorld.com Sat Aug 17 10:30:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: RT-11 Memory Issues Message-ID: <200208171529.LAA73259756@shell.TheWorld.com> >I've finally got this old PDP-11/24 up and running. The system has 1 meg >of RAM, but keeps giving insufficient memory errors when trying to run >various programs (like ADVENT.) I can't believe that ADVENTure would eat >up more than 1 megabyte of ram. Is there some tuning bit that I am >missing here? Unless the program has been designed to use extended memory overlays, or specifically designed to use extended memory directives, it is limited to the standard virtual memory address space of 56kb, minus whatever is used by the monitor (and this is carved out of the low 56kb of the machine... the rest of the 1mb is unused). As I already mentioned in another post, you could try using VBGEXE to run it in its own 56kb space. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sat Aug 17 11:23:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: Anyone remember this PET 2001 game? In-Reply-To: <200208171529.LAA73259756@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: Does anyone recall an old Commodore PET 2001 game which involved a flying a "spaceship" down through a toilet while you shot at germs? -brian. From NAVIGATE87 at aol.com Sat Aug 17 12:25:01 2002 From: NAVIGATE87 at aol.com (NAVIGATE87@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: Fluke 8088 Pod Message-ID: Joe, I have the pod you need. I am looking for tapes for the 9010, will wheel and deal ! Don From MTPro at aol.com Sat Aug 17 12:33:00 2002 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell on EPay Message-ID: <125.150ddf7b.2a8fe2b8@aol.com> In a message dated 8/16/02 12:05:14 PM, cctalk-request@classiccmp.org writes: << >Bell & Howell Apple ]['s are not rare. I want one :-( But despite how much I want one, it isn't worth $600 to me... anyone got one they want to give me? -chris >> I've got one in excellent condition, just $20 . . . but this is a quite rare item, so there is a $380 shipping and handling fee in order that it gets packaged and shipped safely, thank you. Best, David PS - Hee hee David Greelish Classic Computing www.classiccomputing.com "classiccomputing" on eBay From hofmanwb at worldonline.nl Sat Aug 17 13:14:00 2002 From: hofmanwb at worldonline.nl (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: Copying tapes on a VT103? References: <200208171525.LAA65805976@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <004501c24619$a4ecbc20$3de9f1c3@cx> Please do Wim ----- Original Message ----- From: Megan To: Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 5:25 PM Subject: Re: Copying tapes on a VT103? > COPY/SYS DD0: DD1: > > Doing this, however, will not result in an optimized tape... it may > actually take a relatively long time to boot. I actually got a > TU58-based system to boot in as little as 30 seconds by judicious > placement of the system files. If you (or other people) are > interested, I could write it up... > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | > | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | > | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | > | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | > | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | > | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From foxnhare at bigvalley.net Sat Aug 17 13:42:00 2002 From: foxnhare at bigvalley.net (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #130 - 20 msgs References: <20020817170001.74204.36610.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3D5E98E0.15A593C9@bigvalley.net> Never heard of that, though I'm sure I would have remembered the game if I saw that scenario! Can you remember if it was a commercial stand-alone game or one from a tape or type-in magazine (like from Cursor)? The other significan PET library (besides mine) is Ken Ross' you might search his listings at: http://members.tripod.com/~petlibrary/ or email him directly at: mailto:petlibrary@bigfoot.com > Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 09:22:30 -0700 (PST) > From: Brian Chase > Subject: Anyone remember this PET 2001 game? > > Does anyone recall an old Commodore PET 2001 game which involved a > flying a "spaceship" down through a toilet while you shot at germs? > > -brian. -- 01000011 01001111 01001101 01001101 01001111 01000100 01001111 01010010 01000101 Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (209) 754-1363 300-14.4k bps Set your 8-bit C= rigs to sail for http://www.portcommodore.com/ 01000011 01001111 01001101 01010000 01010101 01010100 01000101 01010010 01010011 From emu at ecubics.com Sat Aug 17 14:09:00 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: pdp11-field-guide References: <200204252308.TAA6785175@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <3D5EA01F.3C999D4A@ecubics.com> Hi, Just noticed this entry in the field guide: M7573 RQDX4 Q Controller for RX35, RD50/1/2/3/4 But, never seen/heard of that one. Anybody out here seen one of those ? Brief description what was different to the RQDX3 ? cheers From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Aug 17 14:59:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: Fluke 8088 Pod In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020817151236.4bbf489a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Don, I found an 8088 pod already. What others do you have? You might have another that I'm looking for. I have a few tapes for the 9010. Man, they're even harder to find than the pods! Joe At 01:24 PM 8/17/02 EDT, you wrote: >Joe, >I have the pod you need. I am looking for tapes for the 9010, will wheel and >deal ! >Don > From mross666 at hotmail.com Sat Aug 17 16:18:28 2002 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: Any interest? Basic Four on ebay Message-ID: Found on ebay... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2044637798 Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From mbg at TheWorld.com Sat Aug 17 17:30:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: Anyone remember this PET 2001 game? Message-ID: <200208172229.SAA72992341@shell.TheWorld.com> >Does anyone recall an old Commodore PET 2001 game which involved a >flying a "spaceship" down through a toilet while you shot at germs? I remember something similar named 'pitfall' in which you descended through a pit which varied in width, with targets all over the place which you tried to hit without being hit, and without hitting the walls... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From foo at siconic.com Sat Aug 17 18:11:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: Anyone remember this PET 2001 game? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 17 Aug 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > Does anyone recall an old Commodore PET 2001 game which involved a > flying a "spaceship" down through a toilet while you shot at germs? That program sounds like it would be memorable but for all the wrong reasons. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Aug 17 18:15:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: Any interest? Basic Four on ebay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 17 Aug 2002, Mike Ross wrote: > Found on ebay... > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2044637798 Closed with no bids. Someone could have had it for $25. Nice system. I hope someone makes an offer and rescues it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Aug 17 20:03:00 2002 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: IBM 3295 Plazma Display Message-ID: <20020817180050.K33633-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Before I give in to the temptation to e*** this critter, anyone know anything interesting about it or care to make me an interesting offer (sell/trade/etc.) on it? BIG IBM Mainframe (I think) display. Display unit only... -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Aug 17 20:10:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: Any interest? Basic Four on ebay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020817211059.4a2f297c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Actually the same seller had TWO of them. There were no bids on the one below despite the fact that the opening bid was only $25! FWIW One of our well known Florida pack-rats that's on this list also has a working(?) BASIC 4 and I think he has docs and SW for it. Joe At 09:17 PM 8/17/02 +0000, you wrote: >Found on ebay... > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2044637798 > >Mike >http://www.corestore.org > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Aug 17 20:12:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: IBM 3295 Plazma Display In-Reply-To: <20020817180050.K33633-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020817211343.0fb7cc7c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Jim, How's life in rural Kansas? It's got to be a real change from Washington. Joe At 06:03 PM 8/17/02 -0700, you wrote: > >Before I give in to the temptation to e*** this critter, anyone know >anything interesting about it or care to make me an interesting offer >(sell/trade/etc.) on it? > >BIG IBM Mainframe (I think) display. Display unit only... > >-jim >--- >jimw@agora.rdrop.com >The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw > > From cbajpai at attbi.com Sat Aug 17 20:27:00 2002 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: anyone in Boston or western MA? In-Reply-To: <200208171519.LAA73521623@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <000201c24656$2d2ab2e0$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Hey we are practically neighbors...I'm next door in Natick. I don't think we ever met at VCF East though. -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Megan Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 11:20 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: anyone in Boston or western MA? >I'm going to be in Boston for a few days next week and in western >Massachusetts (on the way to Tanglewood) next weekend. Is anyone >in either of those areas? This will be a nice opportunity for me >because I haven't been to VCF East yet and you New Englanders don't >seem to want to come to VCF West. :) I'd love to go to VCF west, but my budget won't allow it... Anyway, I'm located in Framingham, about 15 miles west of boston. Most of my collection is in storage, but you'd be welcome to see it... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Aug 17 20:31:01 2002 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: Life in... (was: IBM 3295 Plazma Display) Message-ID: <20020817182823.M36533-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Greetings; On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:13:43 Joe wrote: > How's life in rural Kansas? It's got to be a real change from > Washington. Oregon actually. ;^} Much more interesting weather, a bit slower paced, much quieter most of the time. I rather like it. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From reyes at orion.ae.utexas.edu Sat Aug 17 22:48:00 2002 From: reyes at orion.ae.utexas.edu (Reuben Reyes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows In-Reply-To: <3D59A87E.F63D9887@allwest.net> Message-ID: Why has Micro$oft not gone after "X Windows", this looks even closer to the actual name of Windows, but since it is freely available they cant zero in on anybody/company. http://www.strath.ac.uk/CC/Courses/oldXC/subsection3_3_1.html#SECTION0003100000000000000 Reuben On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Martin Marshall wrote: > This may be a bit off topic. > > I received a forwarded message that originated from lindows.com. They > are in a suit with Microsoft regarding the use of "Lindows,com". > Microsoft is suing Lindows for trademark violation. In the message, > Michael Robertson, with Lindows, is looking for old documentation of the > use of the word "windows" and "windowing" prior to 1983. I can't think > of a better resource than this list to find these references. The > relevant part of the forwarded message is quoted below. > > Maybe some of the list members can provide the needed info to > lindows.com > > Martin Marshall > > ________________quote from forwarded > message______________________________________________ > > > > > Microsoft Corp. v. Lindows.com Update > > > > Some of you have sent me email asking for an update on the battle with > Microsoft and wanting to > know how you can help. In case you missed it, Microsoft sued to shut > down Lindows.com earlier in > the year. It was a transparent attempt to stifle the inevitable > competition which Linux represents. > Their allegation was (and is) that they own the trademark for the word > "windows," maintaining that > no other company should be allowed to use the word "windows" -- not > even the "indows" portion. > > > > Of course, there are hundreds of products and companies that use the > word "windows" - and > Microsoft has never filed suit against any of them. That's a huge clue > that this suit has little to do > with trademark confusion. (If you missed any part of the proceedings > to date, visit > http://www.lindows.com/opposition to read the court papers and > summaries.) > > > > Many people have congratulated us, prematurely, on our victory. While > the judicial system did block > their request to shut us down, a trial is looming for April 2003. At > that time, the Judge (or jury) will > decide whether Microsoft has a valid trademark for the word "windows" > and whether the > Lindows.com name is confusing. In the interim, we're moving through > the legal process where > Microsoft is demanding, as part of the discovery process, everything > from our business plan to our > list of partner companies. As you can imagine, it's challenging for a > 39-person company to > compete with a Goliath that has hundreds of people--just in the legal > department alone. This is > where we could use a bit of help from our community of Insiders and > those on our mailing list. > > > > While Microsoft can outspend us with high-priced lawyers and experts, > they cannot buy history. We > know, of course, that the word "windows" had been used in the industry > for years before Microsoft > adopted it in the early 1980s for the name of its windowing interface > product, Microsoft Windows > 1.0. We could, however, use your help in gathering as much evidence as > possible to show the usage > of the words "windows", "window" and "windowing" before and after > 1983, the date Microsoft first > filed its trademark application. If you have magazine or newspaper > articles, academic papers, > journal articles, product manuals, advertisements, textbooks, > dictionaries, or anything else that uses > the terms, we'd like to hear from you. We'd also like to hear from > anyone who had personal > experience in the industry during those early years and can recall the > history of the early > windowing products such as Xerox's Star, VisiCorp's VisiOn, Apple's > Lisa, Digital Research's GEM, > Quarterdeck's DesQ, IBM's TopView, and others. Please email all your > findings to > legal@lindows.com. > > As always, thanks for all your help. > > Michael Robertson > > > ________________________________________________________________________________________________ > From salo at Xtrmntr.org Sat Aug 17 23:05:00 2002 From: salo at Xtrmntr.org (Lubomir Sedlacik) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows In-Reply-To: References: <3D59A87E.F63D9887@allwest.net> Message-ID: <20020818040454.GD18541@Xtrmntr.org> On Sat, Aug 17, 2002 at 10:47:57PM -0500, Reuben Reyes wrote: > > Why has Micro$oft not gone after "X Windows", this looks > even closer to the actual name of Windows, but since it > is freely available they cant zero in on anybody/company. it is _NOT_ X Windows in the first place. it's "X Window System" (www.X.org) regards, -- -- Lubomir Sedlacik ASCII Ribbon campaign against /"\ -- -- e-mail in gratuitous HTML and \ / -- -- Microsoft proprietary formats X -- -- PGPkey: http://Xtrmntr.org/salo.pgp / \ -- -- Key Fingerprint: 75B2 2B96 CD75 0385 1C49 39B8 8B08 C30E 54BC 7263 -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020817/180df31d/attachment.bin From dittman at dittman.net Sat Aug 17 23:07:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: IBM 3295 Plazma Display In-Reply-To: <20020817180050.K33633-100000@agora.rdrop.com> from "James Willing" at Aug 17, 2002 06:03:01 PM Message-ID: <200208180404.g7I444M25153@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Before I give in to the temptation to e*** this critter, anyone know > anything interesting about it or care to make me an interesting offer > (sell/trade/etc.) on it? > > BIG IBM Mainframe (I think) display. Display unit only... I haven't heard of anyone getting these to do anything other than what they were designed to do. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Aug 17 23:52:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: (fwd) FS: Various (fwd) Message-ID: For possible List interest - DO NOT REPLY TO ME! Perhaps this Gentleman will be amenable to a 'reasonable' counter-offer... I dunno: FYI. Cheers John ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Jeff Kilgore" Newsgroups: rec.radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: FS: Various [much snippage of OT radio gear] Hewlett-Packard HP41CX calculator, with magnetic card reader, Advantage module, original manuals and boxes, and several additional books on the HP41. $275 shipped All items will be carefully packaged. Payment by USPS money order, PayPal, or personal check (personal checks must clear before shipping). 73, Jeff Kilgore, KC1MK -- end of forwarded message -- From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Aug 18 01:16:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell on EPay In-Reply-To: References: <3D5B6141.6856.246FC16@localhost> Message-ID: <3D5EAD23.16645.1008CA1@localhost> No I wasn't suggesting they are. And I could think of many things that I would rather spend $400 on. This was just a comment on some posts a while back claiming they were next to worthless. Lawrence > On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > Some people on the list were declaiming how valueless the Bell and Howells > > and Apples in general were. Check out > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2044128294 > > > > At $400 with still time to go for the snipers, and in a slow market. > > Just because a pair or group of over-zealous bidders decide to jack up the > price of a turd, it doesn't necessarily mean it's worth that to most or > even any other people. > > Bell & Howell Apple ]['s are not rare. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From Qstieee at aol.com Sun Aug 18 03:35:01 2002 From: Qstieee at aol.com (Qstieee@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: Old Sun (& SGI) Equipment Available [Last Call] Message-ID: <47.2192e0b2.2a8d3d11@aol.com> I just joined the other day. Where is the equipment and could you please resend the list of it. From Qstieee at aol.com Sun Aug 18 03:35:45 2002 From: Qstieee at aol.com (Qstieee@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: Dec TU-56 Question Message-ID: <9e.2af672c9.2a8d3da9@aol.com> If someone needs components (lights from real computers), the best place is http://www.digikey.com/ They don't specialize in vintage, but a surprising number of things are still standardized after all these years. From Qstieee at aol.com Sun Aug 18 03:36:05 2002 From: Qstieee at aol.com (Qstieee@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: TTY spares request Message-ID: <1bf.af64b59.2a8d3ec8@aol.com> I've recently joined, but if this message is a request for parts, a friend of mine has some ASR33's. I think he has original maintenance books too. Let me know and I'll forward him your request. From charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com Sun Aug 18 03:36:25 2002 From: charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com (lee courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: OT-DIY CPU's In-Reply-To: <3D5BE1DA.6000806@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20020815210213.61468.qmail@web20810.mail.yahoo.com> > Hex what is that. OCTAL is the way to go! > Ban all 8/16/32/64 bit computers ... Bring back > 18/36 and 12/24 cpu's! > A 18 bit PDP-11 would have been so nice! Hey! Many 16-bit minicomputers use octal notation - PDP11, HP1000. Just because your word size is a multiple of 4 doesn't mean you can't still use octal. Lee Courtney --- Ben Franchuk wrote: > Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > > Our firmware is in assembler, the problem is what > version of the > > assembler, since the CPU may change daily... I do > pretty well know the opcodes > > in hex, ( I deliberately made add = AXXXXh, NOP = > 0000h) but whenever I change > > some bit field definition I forget what the > machine code looks like anymore... > > Hex what is that. OCTAL is the way to go! > Ban all 8/16/32/64 bit computers ... Bring back > 18/36 and 12/24 cpu's! > A 18 bit PDP-11 would have been so nice! > > > My CPU sort of looks like a pipelined 16 bit PIC > so architecture wise > > it dates from an on-topic time... > > > I designing a 12/24 bit cpu that is in the 1980-1985 > time frame. > http://www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > > We have a lot of 16 bit cpu's so what is the > advantage of your design > over others. 64K byte memory is the minumum useful > memory for a computer. > 12K operating system, 48K data & program space. > While that is two chips > nowdays for 32KB ram / 32 rom memory even for a > controler that is limited memory. > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com From lincoln.fessenden at verizon.net Sun Aug 18 03:36:56 2002 From: lincoln.fessenden at verizon.net (linc fessenden) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: Old Sun Equipment Available In-Reply-To: <20020812140134.K19859-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Aug 2002, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > I have some old Sun Sparc systems that need to find a new home (preferably > not the dumpster in the parking lot). Is there any one here who might be > interested. > > I have SparcStation 1's > I have SparcServer 330's > and even a Sun4/something that was in a 7' high rack and includes a > 9 track tape drive (which worked quite well the last time I used it.) > > All of this stuff is at the University of Scranton and would need to > be picked up. It's free, although I wouldn't turn down some PDP or > VAX trinkets (expcept async boards :-) in exchange. OK, I'll bite.. I live right outside Allentown.. What kin'ds of configs, and do they run? I guess I am interested in the Sparcs (1's dn 330's) and the PI's.. Details??? -- -Linc Fessenden In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... From rmeenaks at att.net Sun Aug 18 03:37:17 2002 From: rmeenaks at att.net (rmeenaks@att.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: Need help finding information on the following transputer boards Message-ID: <20020816174918.UVSQ28921.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Hi, I am in the process of compiling a list of inmos transputer boards (excluding trams). I have information on most if not all of them so far except the following: IMSB013 - Did it ever exist and if so, what was it IMSB019 - ditto anything after IMSB020??? again, I am only looking for information on the IMSB series and not IMSB4?? trams... Thanks, Ram PS: Finally figured out what was causing the HTML messages. First of all, I apologize for that. Our confidential signature that gets added by Microshaft Exchange only supports HTML so even if you send your emails via text, the server sends them out in HTML. Our useless SAs, claim that it can not output plain text. Is this true??? From lekrueger at butlermfg.com Sun Aug 18 03:37:39 2002 From: lekrueger at butlermfg.com (Krueger, Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: HP86 Message-ID: I'm looking for an HP86 as a backup for the one I use with a data acquisition system. Is it still available? This message is quite old so I'll be surprised if the equipment is still available. Thanks! From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Aug 18 08:13:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows In-Reply-To: References: <3D59A87E.F63D9887@allwest.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020818090452.4db73000@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:47 PM 8/17/02 -0500, you asked: > >Why has Micro$oft not gone after "X Windows", this looks >even closer to the actual name of Windows, but since it >is freely available they cant zero in on anybody/company. For one thing they'd have to go after companies like AT&T and HP. MicroSlouth couldn't push them around the way that it does small companies. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Aug 18 08:14:23 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: (fwd) FS: Various (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020818090712.4db73000@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> That IS a reasonable price for that HP 41CX and all those accessories. Joe At 12:51 AM 8/18/02 -0400, you wrote: > > > For possible List interest - DO NOT REPLY TO ME! > > Perhaps this Gentleman will be amenable to a 'reasonable' >counter-offer... > > I dunno: FYI. > >Cheers > >John > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >From: "Jeff Kilgore" >Newsgroups: rec.radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.equipment >Subject: FS: Various > > >[much snippage of OT radio gear] > > >Hewlett-Packard HP41CX calculator, with magnetic card reader, Advantage >module, original manuals and boxes, and several additional books on the >HP41. $275 shipped > >All items will be carefully packaged. Payment by USPS money order, PayPal, >or personal check (personal checks must clear before shipping). > >73, >Jeff Kilgore, KC1MK > > >-- end of forwarded message -- > > > From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Aug 18 09:19:00 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: OT - What do do about the Nigerian Scam Message-ID: <02081807175801.04713@sputnik> There is a great website ( http://home.rica.net/alphae/419coal/ ) with information about what to do if you get one of those scam letters. The US Treasury department is collecting info and procicuting scammers. You can forward your scam letter to: 419.fdc@usss.treas.gov Be sure to mark it "No financial loss" ... unless you fell for the scam : ^ ) See the website above for info. From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Aug 18 09:28:00 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: Fwd: OT - What do do about the Nigerian Scam Message-ID: <02081807265702.04713@sputnik> There is a great website ( http://home.rica.net/alphae/419coal/ ) with information about what to do if you get one of those scam letters. The US Treasury department is collecting info and procicuting scammers. You can forward your scam letter to: 419.fdc@usss.treas.gov *** argh! bad email address, it's probably us.treas.gov, but I'll check. *** Be sure to mark it "No financial loss" ... unless you fell for the scam : ^ ) See the website above for info. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Aug 18 11:01:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: OT-DIY CPU's References: <20020815210213.61468.qmail@web20810.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D5FC3EE.1070702@jetnet.ab.ca> lee courtney wrote: >>Hex what is that. OCTAL is the way to go! >>Ban all 8/16/32/64 bit computers ... Bring back >>18/36 and 12/24 cpu's! >>A 18 bit PDP-11 would have been so nice! > > > Hey! Many 16-bit minicomputers use octal notation - > PDP11, HP1000. Just because your word size is a > multiple of 4 doesn't mean you can't still use octal. Lets not forget the 8080 too. I was talking about word size being a power of 3. Still with FPGA's and 36 bit wide memory 36 bit computers could make a come back. :) From jamesl at bestweb.net Sun Aug 18 11:25:00 2002 From: jamesl at bestweb.net (James E. LaBarre) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows References: Message-ID: <3D5FCA5E.6020609@bestweb.net> Reuben Reyes wrote: > Why has Micro$oft not gone after "X Windows", this looks > even closer to the actual name of Windows, but since it > is freely available they cant zero in on anybody/company. > > http://www.strath.ac.uk/CC/Courses/oldXC/subsection3_3_1.html#SECTION0003100000000000000 Partially because it's a specification rather than an actual product, so MS wouldn't have the same sort of basis for a lawsuit (if any at all). From mross666 at hotmail.com Sun Aug 18 11:31:08 2002 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: IBM 3295 Plazma Display Message-ID: >>Before I give in to the temptation to e*** this critter, anyone know >>anything interesting about it or care to make me an interesting offer >>(sell/trade/etc.) on it? >> >>BIG IBM Mainframe (I think) display. Display unit only... >I haven't heard of anyone getting these to do anything other >than what they were designed to do. There *are* possibilities, since 'they were designed' to talk to 3174 controllers and *they* are intelligent devices that can do a lot with the right microcode. They talk coax 3270 to a 3174 controller. If you can get a 3174 with token-ring or ethernet connectivity (t/r is common, shows up on ebay from time to time, and is cheap; ethernet is like hens teeth and still worth a fair bit) and the latest microcode from IBM (C6 or better), the 3174 supports tcpip & telnet, allowing you to use the 3270 terminal to connect to any ASCII host across the LAN. I *think* that only applies to common or garden 3270 CUT devices however - and the 3290 series stuff is DFT, requires download (DSL)microcode from the 3174 to work, and can't be used for telnet. I *think*. I have a 3174 set up for telnet; I have a 3290. I'll get 'em together sometime and see if it works. Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Aug 18 12:01:47 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: OT-DIY CPU's In-Reply-To: <3D5FC3EE.1070702@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > Lets not forget the 8080 too. > I was talking about word size being a power of 3. Ahh yes, all those 9-trit, 27-trit, and 81-trit systems from that parallel universe in which trinary computing won the day. > Still with FPGA's and 36 bit wide memory 36 bit computers > could make a come back. :) There are always software emulators, too. -brian. From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Aug 18 12:07:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: New finds for Musuem Message-ID: <009f01c246da$1dbf8220$8b000240@default> Well over the last couple weeks the Mac XL from eBay arrived in the mail but was DOA. It will go into the repair pile at the warehouse. Got a nice book by Dr. Jerry M. Rosenberg called The Computer Prophets from 1969. Here's a short list of some items I picked up. 1. Nice Next KB for the N4000A monitor at the local Goodwill (still looking for the computer). 2. Galactic Pinball cartridge for the Virtual Boy console. 3. I-O Corp. model 2677C terminals (3 of them) at a auction for 50 cent each. 4. IBM 3180-02 terminal for 50 cent at same auction. 5. Prc Realty System model 101 Data terminal based on the TI 745 portable. 6. IBM 8503-001 mono monitor. 7. Large box with a Mac Plus and all kinds of goodies for it for free at the auction. 8. hp 700/70 terminal for $3 powers up great but need the kb for it. 9. A Jetbook 386sx notebook for $10, needs battery charger. 10. Robot named 2-XL from 1978, needs a little care. 11. TurboGrafx 16 with 8 games on the HuCard for $20 at the flea market. 12. AS/400 Barcode labeling software. 13. About 20 more mousepads for the collection. That's it for now there were lots more items but some are too new to list. Keep on computing. From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Aug 18 12:21:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: OT-DIY CPU's In-Reply-To: <3D5FC3EE.1070702@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <20020815210213.61468.qmail@web20810.mail.yahoo.com> <3D5FC3EE.1070702@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <42226.64.169.63.74.1029691261.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Ben Franchuk wrote: > I was talking about word size being a power of 3. I think you mean "a multiple of 3". 12, 18, 24, and 36 aren't integral powers of 3. If you really want a power of 3, try a 9-bit or 27-bit machine. I imagine you won't want to build an 81-bit, 243-bit, or larger machine, but who knows. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Aug 18 12:26:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: OT-DIY CPU's References: Message-ID: <3D5FD7CD.7010309@jetnet.ab.ca> Brian Chase wrote: > On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > >>Lets not forget the 8080 too. >>I was talking about word size being a power of 3. > > > Ahh yes, all those 9-trit, 27-trit, and 81-trit systems from that > parallel universe in which trinary computing won the day. > Using -1,0,+1 has advantages, but nobody has come up with a single bit memory storage for it. It takes two bits of data to store it. Here is a few links on it how ever. http://www.trinary.cc/ http://www.americanscientist.org/Issues/Comsci01/Compsci2001-11.html (Don't expect more) PS. this is on topic because a FEW trinary computers have been built. > > There are always software emulators, too. But emulators have lousy front panels. They don't have the feel of the big iron. Also a PDP-8 in modern techology would really tell if your latest intel product is fast or not. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Aug 18 13:12:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: OT-DIY CPU's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > I was talking about word size being a power of 3. > Ahh yes, all those 9-trit, 27-trit, and 81-trit systems from that > parallel universe in which trinary computing won the day. Ah, yes. And lets make all word sizes prime numbers, just so that split words (such as "nybbles") will be more fun, and not all the same size. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 18 13:27:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: Dec TU-56 Question In-Reply-To: <9e.2af672c9.2a8d3da9@aol.com> from "Qstieee@aol.com" at Aug 15, 2 01:23:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 666 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020818/2a8f7c96/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 18 13:30:02 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: OT-DIY CPU's In-Reply-To: <20020815210213.61468.qmail@web20810.mail.yahoo.com> from "lee courtney" at Aug 15, 2 02:02:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 872 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020818/f17772b5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 18 13:43:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: (fwd) FS: Various (fwd) In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Aug 18, 2 00:51:31 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2685 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020818/a20fa282/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 18 13:47:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:42 2005 Subject: OT-DIY CPU's In-Reply-To: <3D5FC3EE.1070702@jetnet.ab.ca> from "Ben Franchuk" at Aug 18, 2 09:57:34 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 160 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020818/dfd17e16/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 18 13:50:03 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: OT-DIY CPU's In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Aug 18, 2 11:11:50 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 574 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020818/120d3b30/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Aug 18 13:54:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: OT-DIY CPU's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > I was talking about word size being a power of 3. > Do you mean a 'multiple of 3' here, or are you thinking of 3, 9, 21, 81, > ... bit machines only? I think that he meant a multiple of 3, but a POWER of 3 would add the extra fun that splitting a word into smaller equal pieces would then be limited to only powers of 3. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 18 13:57:05 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: OT-DIY CPU's In-Reply-To: <3D5FD7CD.7010309@jetnet.ab.ca> from "Ben Franchuk" at Aug 18, 2 11:22:21 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1263 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020818/62e97761/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Aug 18 14:01:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: OT-DIY CPU's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > I was talking about word size being a power of 3. > > > Ahh yes, all those 9-trit, 27-trit, and 81-trit systems from that > > > parallel universe in which trinary computing won the day. > > Ah, yes. > > And lets make all word sizes prime numbers, just so that split words > > (such as "nybbles") will be more fun, and not all the same size. > > It is obvious (at least to me) that any power of 3 (other than 3 itself > ;-)) cannot be a prime number... > > You can't have it both ways. Either a power (or multiple?) of 3 as your > word size _or_ a prime number word size. You are, of course, quite correct. That should have read "BUT lets make all word sizes prime numbers", to provide even MORE fun and confusion than powers (or multiples) of 3. From foo at siconic.com Sun Aug 18 14:41:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020818090452.4db73000@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, Joe wrote: > At 10:47 PM 8/17/02 -0500, you asked: > > > >Why has Micro$oft not gone after "X Windows", this looks > >even closer to the actual name of Windows, but since it > >is freely available they cant zero in on anybody/company. > > For one thing they'd have to go after companies like AT&T and HP. MicroSlouth couldn't push them around the way that it does small companies. That's true. And the specific reason they are going after Lindows is because it will (hopefully) provide a viable alternative to MS crap. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Sun Aug 18 15:18:01 2002 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: OT-DIY CPU's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601c246f4$365b1aa0$4d4d2c0a@atx> > Of course if you have a 12 bit or 24 bit word, then either octal or hex > are natural (3 hex digits = 4 octal digits). Again I guess which one you > use depends on the format of the instruction word. > The fun then comes with something like the ICT/ICL 1900 series* where the 24-bit word and the 7-bit opcode were "always" expressed in octal but the instruction F X N(M) was physically laid out as X(3 bits)F(7 bits)M(2 bits)N(12 bits) [branches being slightly different] which did not appear naturally in the octal expression. * originally the FP6000 originating in Canada Andy From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Aug 18 16:37:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: OT-DIY CPU's References: <000601c246f4$365b1aa0$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <3D6012BA.4040307@jetnet.ab.ca> Andy Holt wrote: > The fun then comes with something like the ICT/ICL 1900 series* where the > 24-bit word and the 7-bit opcode were "always" expressed in octal but the > instruction > F X N(M) was physically laid out as > X(3 bits)F(7 bits)M(2 bits)N(12 bits) [branches being slightly different] > which did not appear naturally in the octal expression. > > * originally the FP6000 originating in Canada > Know of any information on the web? From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sun Aug 18 16:49:00 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: Need help finding information on the following transputer boards References: <20020816174918.UVSQ28921.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <3D6015B2.7528388@gifford.co.uk> rmeenaks@att.net wrote: > I am in the process of compiling a list of inmos > transputer boards (excluding trams). I have information > on most if not all of them so far except the following: > > IMSB013 - Did it ever exist and if so, what was it Didn't exist -- too unlucky! > IMSB019 - ditto The differential link converter board used in the B300 along with a B018 and a couple of TRAMs. > anything after IMSB020??? No, the "BOZO" board was the last one. The list as I remember it: B001 - Evaluation board with small (256k?) memory and T414A B002 - Evaluation board with larger (2M) memory and T414A B003 - Evaluation board with four T414Bs B004 - PC interface card with T414B and 2Mb B005 - Disk controller with M212, floppy disk and hard disk B006 - Evaluation board with T212s B007 - Graphics board B008 - PC TRAM motherboard B009 - DSP board B010 - Board for NEC APC (I think) B011 - VME board B012 - TRAM motherboard for ITEM rack B013 - too unlucky! B014 - VME TRAM motherboard B015 - Another NEC board, probably TRAMs B016 - VME master board with T801 B017 - Micro Channel TRAM motherboard B018 - TRAM motherboard with Flash ROM boot features B019 - Differential link converter B020 - Graphics board with TRAM slots and VGA pass-through -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk Sun Aug 18 17:16:00 2002 From: celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: Copying tapes on a VT103? References: <200208171525.LAA65805976@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <3D601CC1.36BF1418@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> Megan wrote: > > If these are the commands as used verbatim, then it is looking for > a *file* by the name of DD0. You need to specify the device name, > so use 'DD0:'. (I'm surprised it didn't report the name of the file > it didn't find.) So, the command should be: > > COPY/SYS DD0: DD1: Thanks Megan, I'll pass this along. > Doing this, however, will not result in an optimized tape... it may > actually take a relatively long time to boot. I actually got a > TU58-based system to boot in as little as 30 seconds by judicious > placement of the system files. If you (or other people) are > interested, I could write it up... The company who asked the question are still using a VT103 to control one of their machines. I imagine they'll be happy if the copy works at all! (First rule of optimisation: "Don't"). Regards, Paul From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Aug 18 19:46:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: VAXcluster ?'s Message-ID: <006701c24719$e89aaa80$b8469280@y5f3q8> Well, I now have the fixings for an interesting VAXcluster in the basement: VAX 6000 320, VAXstation 4000 90, VAXstation 3100 40 (I think), VAX 4000 200, and some maybe-OT alphas (DEC 3000/300X, DEC 3000/700, and a DEC 3000/800). Also a TU-81+ w/ RA-81, and a RA-91 in the 6K machine. Support hardware includes a DELNI, DECserver 100, and an HP bridge to segment the cluster off the network proper. Now I have to figure out how I'm going to tie it all together. The plan so far is to cluster all the VAXen over the DELNI. I don't have any CI equipment, and in any case IIRC only the 6K would be able to use it. I'm not positive what I'm going to do with the alphas, but I'd like at least one of 'em in the cluster too, maybe dual-boot them into OpenVMS or NetBSD. I think OpenVMS 7.? still supports the old VAXen, and from what I've heard on c.o.v it's recommended over the 5.5-? currently installed on three of the machines. Ok, I confess this was partly to brag, but has anyone done something neat with a VAXcluster that I could do too? I'm not to the point where I can spark everything at once (need a new power circuit for the 6K for one thing-- did the 220V conversion already, thanks), but I'd like to have a direction early on, kind of a goal to work towards. Anyone want to share? Bob From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Aug 18 21:16:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: VAXcluster ?'s In-Reply-To: <006701c24719$e89aaa80$b8469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: >Well, I now have the fixings for an interesting VAXcluster in the basement: > >VAX 6000 320, VAXstation 4000 90, VAXstation 3100 40 (I think), VAX 4000 >200, and some maybe-OT alphas (DEC 3000/300X, DEC 3000/700, and a DEC >3000/800). Also a TU-81+ w/ RA-81, and a RA-91 in the 6K machine. Support >hardware includes a DELNI, DECserver 100, and an HP bridge to segment the >cluster off the network proper. > >Now I have to figure out how I'm going to tie it all together. The plan so >far is to cluster all the VAXen over the DELNI. I don't have any CI >equipment, and in any case IIRC only the 6K would be able to use it. I'm >not positive what I'm going to do with the alphas, but I'd like at least one >of 'em in the cluster too, maybe dual-boot them into OpenVMS or NetBSD. I >think OpenVMS 7.? still supports the old VAXen, and from what I've heard on >c.o.v it's recommended over the 5.5-? currently installed on three of the >machines. Everything you've got should be supported by 7.3 for the VAXen, and 7.3-1 as soon as it's released for the Alpha's (the VAXen don't get -1 higher releases, so the next VAX release will be 7.4 unless they go to a higher version number). If you want to run UNIX, any cheap modern x86 box will do a better job unless you actually need 64-bit for some reason. BTW, those Alpha's might be slightly OT, but they're old enough that in a year or so they won't be. Based on the latest information posted at Montagar software it looks like, they're hoping to have the new Hobbyist CD's (VAX V7.3 & Alpha V7.3-1) ready by mid-September. It also looks like they still have the Alpha Hobbyist V2 (V7.2) available. Hopefully they'll respond to requests that this release include more of the layered products that are available. If you don't have VMS media, this or eBay is the way to get it (though I've also purchased media direct from DEC & Compaq). >Ok, I confess this was partly to brag, but has anyone done something neat >with a VAXcluster that I could do too? I'm not to the point where I can >spark everything at once (need a new power circuit for the 6K for one >thing-- did the 220V conversion already, thanks), but I'd like to have a >direction early on, kind of a goal to work towards. Anyone want to share? Well, for starters I'd like to recommend that the 6000-320 not be a major part of your cluster, that things got to suck electricity like crazy! Plus it'll generate a fair amount of heat. In fact do to electricity prices and major problems getting rid of heat, my cluster is down to a PWS433au (with a BA350 storageworks shelf, and a Exabyte 8mm Jukebox). It's my mailserver (including POP3), printserver, database server, a fileserver, and when I get a chance it will also be my DNS server. It's also got every programming language that is available to hobbyists installed. Also, my wife and I both use it to log into and do stuff (though she just uses it for email). If heat wasn't such a problem (we're in an apartment without Air Conditioning), I'd have it clustered with at least a AlphaStation 200 4/233 (some of the load and another BA350), and a VAXstation 4000/90 (legacy apps and another BA350). I've also got a MicroVAX III with RL01, RL02, RA72, and RA73 drives that I'd hook up if I could (it's used for archiving PDP-11 data). I'd also consider bringing one of my 2 RAID units online (3 disk shelves each, as well as a shelf for two HSZ50's). Hopefully this might give you some ideas as to what you can do with your hardware. If you decided that you want to run a mailserver, you'll either need to be running one of the two stacks from Process Software or TCPIP V5.1 so that you'll have decent anti-spam features. I run TCPIP V5.1, but the others are nice as they've got SSH support. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dogas at bellsouth.net Sun Aug 18 22:25:01 2002 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: Any interest? Basic Four on ebay References: <3.0.6.16.20020817211059.4a2f297c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001b01c2472f$30756470$5adb3fd0@DOMAIN> From: Joe > Actually the same seller had TWO of them. There were no bids on the one below despite the fact that the opening bid was only $25! FWIW One of our well known Florida pack-rats that's on this list also has a working(?) BASIC 4 and I think he has docs and SW for it. That's Georgia pack-rat, thank you. Hell yep, David Greelish and I hoisted his old Model 1300 Basic Four with two drives in it up a staircase with the help of another nearly killing all three of us. I later got it down that same flight of stairs myself without serious injury (so far) and it's still nearby. I do have BOSS, Business Basic and some business apps for it on some RL02ish disk packs. I also have the Planning & Installation and service manuals on the CPU (LD1200 cpu, SM1101 semiconductor memory, SM8001 and LD8001 sync comm controller, and SM9000 and LD9000 power supply) DRIVES, TERMINAL, and PRINTER. Some info from SM1029, July 1 1976 Service Manual for Model 1300 CPU The model 1300 CPU is a general purpose, 8-bit, microprogrammed minicomputer (lots of ttl). It is the primary unit of all BASIC/FOUR computer systems. The CPU has full I/O capability, an interrupt system, a DMA channel for data transfer between the CPU and one or more disk drive units, and an internal main memory of up to 65k. The memory cycle time is optionally 1.0, 0.8, or 0.6 microsecond. Macroinstructions are implemented by executing a series of firmware microinstructions stored in the microprogram ROM. Elsewhere in that manual it also states that the capability of two CPUs to exhange data directly is also available as an option, So, I wish the other one were closer and am glad it's not. ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Aug 18 23:17:01 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: (fwd) FS: Various (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200208182116.39781.rhudson@cnonline.net> On Sunday 18 August 2002 11:33 am, Tony Duell wrote: > Although thr HP41 came out over 20 years ago (and the CX came out, what, > 18 years ago?) they are _still_ useful machines. I use mine (with a fair > collection of add-ons) a lot. I was using one of them all afternoon, for > example. So useful (and so missed) that I emulate one with a printer on my PALM(tm) device. : ^ ) (wish I had a working one tho', can't afford it.) From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Mon Aug 19 00:56:01 2002 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: OT-DIY CPU's In-Reply-To: <3D6012BA.4040307@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <000201c24744$fd713c00$4d4d2c0a@atx> > Andy Holt wrote: > > > The fun then comes with something like the ICT/ICL 1900 series* > where the > .... > > * originally the FP6000 originating in Canada > > > > Know of any information on the web? A Google search for ICL.1900 finds quite a lot the most interesting link is probably http://www.personal.leeds.ac.uk/~ecldh/ccs/g34ever.html describing a simulation project able to run George 3 - one of the most advanced operating systems of the era. The emulator "cheats" somewhat by emulating the executive interface rather than the raw hardware and so is unsuitable for the other 1900 series operating systems which used a different executive. I have several of the hardware manuals and have a theoretical project (ie, not really started!) to build a 1900 using an FPGA. A problem being that it seems that none of the other 1900 series operating systems (Operators executive, George 1,2, and 2+, Minimop, Maximop) seem to have survived. Andy From at258 at osfn.org Mon Aug 19 07:08:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: Any interest? Basic Four on ebay In-Reply-To: <001b01c2472f$30756470$5adb3fd0@DOMAIN> Message-ID: We've got one of the old blue 1200's. We haven't fired it up yet, but some day. they're really attractive machines, nicer looking than our 8000. On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, Mike wrote: > From: Joe > > > Actually the same seller had TWO of them. There were no bids on the > one below despite the fact that the opening bid was only $25! FWIW One of > our well known Florida pack-rats that's on this list also has a working(?) > BASIC 4 and I think he has docs and SW for it. > > That's Georgia pack-rat, thank you. Hell yep, David Greelish and I hoisted > his old Model 1300 Basic Four with two drives in it up a staircase with the > help of another nearly killing all three of us. I later got it down that > same flight of stairs myself without serious injury (so far) and it's still > nearby. > > I do have BOSS, Business Basic and some business apps for it on some RL02ish > disk packs. I also have the Planning & Installation and service manuals on > the CPU (LD1200 cpu, SM1101 semiconductor memory, SM8001 and LD8001 sync > comm controller, and SM9000 and LD9000 power supply) DRIVES, TERMINAL, and > PRINTER. > > Some info from SM1029, July 1 1976 Service Manual for Model 1300 CPU > > The model 1300 CPU is a general purpose, 8-bit, microprogrammed > minicomputer (lots of ttl). It is the primary unit of all BASIC/FOUR > computer systems. The CPU has full I/O capability, an interrupt system, a > DMA channel for data transfer between the CPU and one or more disk drive > units, and an internal main memory of up to 65k. The memory cycle time is > optionally 1.0, 0.8, or 0.6 microsecond. Macroinstructions are implemented > by executing a series of firmware microinstructions stored in the > microprogram ROM. > > Elsewhere in that manual it also states that the capability of two CPUs to > exhange data directly is also available as an option, > > So, I wish the other one were closer and am glad it's not. > > ;) > - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net > > > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Mon Aug 19 09:10:00 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: Dynalogic Hyperion Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467B13@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] > > > On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Chris wrote: > > > >> Wasn't that one of the ones that IBM shut down for being > > >>TOO compatible? > > > > > >I think that was the Corona Data Systems one. They just > > >copied the ROMs from what I've been told. > > > > Does this mean my Corona luggable will sell for huge $$$ on > > ePay? Oh why > > oh why did I give my complete one to Dave :-( > > No, it means that it is obscure or forgotten and nobody will even know > what they are bidding on and it will languish there and end > up costing you the listing fees. > > Sellam Ismail > ---------------- You know, I should dig that thing out and fire it up one of these days. It got put in the basement computer room, and I haven't had a chance yet to start it. When I saw this mentioned, I was about to laugh at Chris for handing it over, but Sellam had to come by and burst the bubble... :/ -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 19 09:18:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: Anyone remember this PET 2001 game? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020819141731.11247.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Brian Chase wrote: > Does anyone recall an old Commodore PET 2001 game which involved a > flying a "spaceship" down through a toilet while you shot at germs? > > -brian. Wow! No I don't, but if a copy is found, I'd love to see it. Was this for a 4K/8K PET? 80-col? Have any fragment of a title? Sounds as weird as "Space Spuds" - the demo game with the Amiga "X-Specs 3D" - LCD shutter glasses that ran off the second game/mouse port - you shot at potatoes and french fries, in 3D. You lost when you gained too much weight. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Mon Aug 19 09:19:00 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: anyone in Boston or western MA? Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467B14@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Derek Peschel [mailto:dpeschel@eskimo.com] > > > Hi everybody, > > I'm going to be in Boston for a few days next week and in western > Massachusetts (on the way to Tanglewood) next weekend. Is anyone > in either of those areas? This will be a nice opportunity for me > because I haven't been to VCF East yet and you New Englanders don't > seem to want to come to VCF West. :) > > -- Derek New Haven, CT, is probably about an hour or two out of the way... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Aug 19 09:47:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: Any interest? Basic Four on ebay In-Reply-To: <001b01c2472f$30756470$5adb3fd0@DOMAIN> References: <3.0.6.16.20020817211059.4a2f297c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020819104932.56573aee@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:19 PM 8/18/02 -0400, Mike wrote: >From: Joe > >> Actually the same seller had TWO of them. There were no bids on the >one below despite the fact that the opening bid was only $25! FWIW One of >our well known Florida pack-rats that's on this list also has a working(?) >BASIC 4 and I think he has docs and SW for it. > >That's Georgia pack-rat, thank you. I forgot that you finally cleared out all the storage units in Green Cove Springs. Oh well, Georgia's loss is our gain. :-) Joe PS when are you going to be home long enough to answer the phone? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Aug 19 10:03:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: HeathKit Most Accurate Clock II manual? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020819110525.5657341a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone have a manual for this? My clock appears to work except that it's not setting the time automaticly. It recieves WWV and the Data light blinks and the Capture light blinked a couple of times but the correct time never appeared on the display. Also what do the Hi Spec, Trim Up and Trim Dn lights mean? Joe From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 19 11:30:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: IBM 3295 Plazma Display In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020819163023.34833.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike Ross wrote: > >>BIG IBM Mainframe (I think) display. Display unit only... > There *are* possibilities, since 'they were designed' to talk to 3174 > controllers and *they* are intelligent devices that can do a lot with the > right microcode. > > They talk coax 3270 to a 3174 controller... I'd never heard of the 3174 before; when I did SNA stuff for a living, we emulated (and also used) a 3274. I found this URL - http://www.argecy.com/3174.html at the top of the Google list - pretty cool. I don't think I have any old Memorex 3270- alike terminals any more, but if I find one up in the attic, I might have to secure a 3174 to play with my old SNA gear. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 19 12:37:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: COSMAC VIP documentation (was Re: Need help finding old IBM PC game) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020815135041.44774712@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20020819173644.45580.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Joe wrote: > I was in a surplus store today and... >... did find a 6 inch high stack of manuals for the RCA Cosmac VIP > :-) :-) :-) :-) Did you get them? If so, what part numbers? I have a 2" stack of COSMAC VIP manuals (and the VIP to go with them). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Aug 19 12:42:01 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: HeathKit Most Accurate Clock II manual? References: <3.0.6.16.20020819110525.5657341a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3D612CFB.2C2EA445@ccp.com> Joe wrote: > > Does anyone have a manual for this? My clock appears to work except that it's not setting the time automaticly. It recieves WWV and the Data light blinks and the Capture light blinked a couple of times but the correct time never appeared on the display. Also what do the Hi Spec, Trim Up and Trim Dn lights mean? > > Joe I'd try doing a google search for Heathkit manuals; there are several sources out there, or maybe someone does repairs on those things. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From tony.eros at machm.org Mon Aug 19 13:10:01 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: Documentation for DEC T-11 evaluation board? In-Reply-To: <3D612CFB.2C2EA445@ccp.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20020819110525.5657341a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020819140650.01a57098@mail.njd.concentric.com> I just received a DEC T-11 evaluation board (part number DCT11-EM) I bought on eBay. Does anyone have any documentation on this? Compaq Assisted Services still lists the User's Manual for $142, but when I made an internal inquiry, I found it had been obsoleted and was no longer available. :-( -- Tony From dittman at dittman.net Mon Aug 19 13:22:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: Documentation for DEC T-11 evaluation board? In-Reply-To: from "Tony Eros" at Aug 19, 2002 02:10:06 PM Message-ID: <200208191819.g7JIJ0p04644@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I just received a DEC T-11 evaluation board (part number DCT11-EM) I bought > on eBay. Does anyone have any documentation on this? Compaq Assisted > Services still lists the User's Manual for $142, but when I made an > internal inquiry, I found it had been obsoleted and was no longer > available. :-( I'd like to find the schematics for the DCT11-EM board (or even better, a board based on the J-11). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Aug 19 13:43:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: COSMAC VIP documentation (was Re: Need help finding old IBM PC game) In-Reply-To: <20020819173644.45580.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20020815135041.44774712@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020819144217.52c7ac1a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:36 AM 8/19/02 -0700, you wrote: > >--- Joe wrote: >> I was in a surplus store today and... >>... did find a 6 inch high stack of manuals for the RCA Cosmac VIP >> :-) :-) :-) :-) > >Did you get them? You bet! If so, what part numbers? No one seemed interested so I put them on E-bay. If you're interested in the VIP or ELFs then take a good look at them, there's LOTS of good info in them. I have a 2" stack of >COSMAC VIP manuals (and the VIP to go with them). I have a VIP too (altough Mike has it at the moment). I bought at a hamfest earlier this year. I bought the manuals from the same people except they were at their store. 99% chance that these manuals went with that same VIP. Joe > >-ethan > > > >________________________ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Aug 19 13:43:28 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: HeathKit Most Accurate Clock II manual? In-Reply-To: <3D612CFB.2C2EA445@ccp.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20020819110525.5657341a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020819144435.52c73960@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> t 12:38 PM 8/19/02 -0500, Gary wrote: >Joe wrote: >> >> Does anyone have a manual for this? My clock appears to work except that it's not setting the time automaticly. It recieves WWV and the Data light blinks and the Capture light blinked a couple of times but the correct time never appeared on the display. Also what do the Hi Spec, Trim Up and Trim Dn lights mean? >> >> Joe > > >I'd try doing a google search for Heathkit manuals; there are several >sources out there, or maybe someone does repairs on those things. I already did. There's a good amount out there on the HeathKit Most Accurate Clock but little on the HeathKit Most Accurate Clock II. I thought there might be a Heathkit news-group but I couldn't find one. Joe > From dogas at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 19 13:45:01 2002 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: Documentation for DEC T-11 evaluation board? References: <200208191819.g7JIJ0p04644@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <004701c247af$bfaadcd0$d062d6d1@DOMAIN> From: Eric Dittman > I'd like to find the schematics for the DCT11-EM board (or even > better, a board based on the J-11). Did ya see that DEC DCT-11FM Single Board Vintage Computer EX that just auctioned off at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2045650062 Purty Puter! ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Mon Aug 19 14:01:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: Documentation for DEC T-11 evaluation board? Message-ID: > > I just received a DEC T-11 evaluation board (part number DCT11-EM) I bought > > on eBay. Does anyone have any documentation on this? Compaq Assisted > > Services still lists the User's Manual for $142, but when I made an > > internal inquiry, I found it had been obsoleted and was no longer > > available. :-( > There are a couple of T-11 manuals at http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/dec/pdp11/ but I don't think either of them are for that particular system. They may provide some hints though. Antonio From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Mon Aug 19 14:07:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: Documentation for DEC T-11 evaluation board? Message-ID: >I'd like to find the schematics for the DCT11-EM board (or even >better, a board based on the J-11). I have a scan of EK-SBC02-UG-001 and it has schematics (and ROM and FPLA listings) for that system. IIRC it is T-11 based. That should eventually appear at the DFWCUG site. If you want it right now, I'm reasonably sure that it is a later version of http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/dec/pdp11/EK-KXT11-UG-PR1.pdf which you can get right now. I doubt that either of these are *exactly* what you asked for, but they may serve as a useful starting point. Antonio From glenslick at hotmail.com Mon Aug 19 15:09:01 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: HP1000F ? Message-ID: Is there a good source of info about HP1000 systems on the net somewhere? Are they interesting systems? Is there someone on the list that knows what this box is and can provide a quick summary of interesting details about it? I don't have any more info about this particular system other than the picture below. http://home1.gte.net/~gslick/hp1000/hp1000f.jpg _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 19 15:48:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: COSMAC VIP documentation (was Re: Need help finding old IBM PC game) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020819144217.52c7ac1a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20020819204757.77137.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Joe wrote: > At 10:36 AM 8/19/02 -0700, you wrote: > > > >--- Joe wrote: > >> I was in a surplus store today and... > >>... did find a 6 inch high stack of manuals for the RCA Cosmac VIP > >> :-) :-) :-) :-) > > > >Did you get them? > > You bet! Good for you. > If so, what part numbers? > http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dllViewSellersOtherItems&userid=rigdonj > No one seemed interested so I put them on E-bay. If you're interested in > the VIP or ELFs then take a good look at them, there's LOTS of good info > in them. Looks like I have originals for all of the photocopied data sheets and RCA manuals you have (and possibly one or two you don't), but I do not have any issues of VIPER. > I have a VIP too (altough Mike has it at the moment). I bought at a > hamfest earlier this year. I bought the manuals from the same people > except they were at their store. 99% chance that these manuals went with > that same VIP. I got my VIP about 16 years ago for $35 at Dayton (same year I got an ASR-33 w/110 baud data set for $20). What manuals I have, came from the local RCA distributor for cover price ($5) or free. Somewhere, I have a cassette of CHIP-8 and most of the CHIP-8 games from the VIP manuals - I typed it all in and saved it to tape myself. One of my ultra-low priority projects is to locate the tape, slurp it into a modern machine and cut MP3s of the programs and see if I can use my Rio PMP300 (or portable CDDA/MP3 player) as a load device. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 19 15:53:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: RT-11 Memory Issues In-Reply-To: <200208171529.LAA73259756@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <20020819205259.67333.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Megan wrote: > > > I've finally got this old PDP-11/24 up and running. The system has > > 1 meg of RAM, but keeps giving insufficient memory errors when trying > > to run various programs (like ADVENT.) I can't believe that ADVENTure > > would eat up more than 1 megabyte of ram. Is there some tuning bit > > that I am missing here? > > Unless the program has been designed to use extended memory overlays, or > specifically designed to use extended memory directives, it is limited to > the standard virtual memory address space of 56kb, minus whatever is used > by the monitor (and this is carved out of the low 56kb of the machine... > the rest of the 1mb is unused). Since ADVENT is such a monster, overlays or no, another thing that might matter is a) which monitor you are using and b) which version of RT-11. I do not have hard statistics to quote, but I am fairly certain that between RT-11 v4.0 and v5.3 (two of the more common versions still in use today) and between the various monitors, there can be several Kbytes of difference in free memory - enough to matter to something as large as ADVENT. OTOH, if you are building from source, that might matter, too, depending on the version of the compiler (the libraries/runtime, essentially), too. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 19 16:35:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: TTY spares request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020819213449.26152.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike Ross wrote: > Hope someone can help - perhaps they're lying in a NJ warehouse! > > Been checking out my old ASR33s, a couple of them are missing the small > bar (shaped like a 'double Y') which connects the keyboard mechanism to > the printer. Anybody got any spares? Dan Cohoe and I both made the rounds of the TTY spares on the balcony of the Armory in NJ (thanks again, William!) I do not recall seeing anything of that nature amidst the bits. Spare keytops, plattens, chad bins, springs and more, but no keyboard butterflies. It's a flat part and shouldn't be as critical on the manufacturing tolerances as parts in the printer carriage - if you have one, it should be possible to make duplicates. If you don't have any, someone could throw one on a flatbed scanner... You might even be able to get away with a plastic replacement - wouldn't be as durable (months/years instead of years/decades), but you could make a stack of them. If you have any friends who are train buffs, especially those who make their own engines/cars from raw materials rather than kits, they should have the necessary tools/skills to copy a 1"x2" flat piece of metal with a few notches and curvy bits. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Aug 19 16:38:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: COSMAC VIP documentation (was Re: Need help finding old IBM PC game) In-Reply-To: <20020819204757.77137.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20020819144217.52c7ac1a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020819173707.1357fd7a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:47 PM 8/19/02 -0700, you wrote: > >--- Joe wrote: >> At 10:36 AM 8/19/02 -0700, you wrote: >> > >> >--- Joe wrote: >> >> I was in a surplus store today and... >> >>... did find a 6 inch high stack of manuals for the RCA Cosmac VIP >> >> :-) :-) :-) :-) >> > >> >Did you get them? >> >> You bet! > >Good for you. > >> If so, what part numbers? >> > >http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dllViewSellersOtherItems&userid=rigdonj > >> No one seemed interested so I put them on E-bay. If you're interested in >> the VIP or ELFs then take a good look at them, there's LOTS of good info >> in them. > >Looks like I have originals for all of the photocopied data sheets >and RCA manuals you have (and possibly one or two you don't), but I >do not have any issues of VIPER. The VIPER news-letters are really great. There's loads of good info in them. Mike has PILES of RCA docs for the Cosmac, ELF, VIP and other 1802 stuff. > >> I have a VIP too (altough Mike has it at the moment). I bought at a >> hamfest earlier this year. I bought the manuals from the same people >> except they were at their store. 99% chance that these manuals went with >> that same VIP. > >I got my VIP about 16 years ago for $35 at Dayton (same year I got >an ASR-33 w/110 baud data set for $20). What manuals I have, came >from the local RCA distributor for cover price ($5) or free. I got this VIP for substantially less than that at a recent hamfest. Mike Haas and I had both been over this guys stuff at least three times then I decided to go through the stuff one more time while Mike went and got the car. That's when I found the VIP. Needless to say, Mike was quite upset! It's amazing how many times you can look through the same stuff and still find something that you previously overlooked. > >Somewhere, I have a cassette of CHIP-8 and most of the CHIP-8 games >from the VIP manuals - I typed it all in and saved it to tape myself. >One of my ultra-low priority projects is to locate the tape, slurp >it into a modern machine and cut MP3s of the programs and see if I >can use my Rio PMP300 (or portable CDDA/MP3 player) as a load device. That would be "interesting"! Joe > >-ethan > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs >http://www.hotjobs.com > From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Mon Aug 19 16:56:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: PDP 11/24 Wierd Unibus Setup Message-ID: <000d01c247cb$28f0fb50$3200a8c0@winnt> I've pretty much got this PDP-11/24 up and running, except for one confusing detail. There are some (what I consider to be) strange cards plugged into one section of the unibus. In this box, there are three seperate sections of bus. The one on the right has 9 slots, and contains the cpu, memory, dl-11, etc. The one on the left has 4 slots and contains the bus terminator, as well as the controller for the RA-80. It is joined to the right hand bus by an extension cable. The middle section of bus is the wierd one. It contains some kind of power supply cable and a bunch of single-height flip-chips. Here is the setup: 1 2 3 4 A Power B M205 M660 C M116 D M113 E M112 F Anyone have any ideas what this is for? Thanks. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Aug 19 17:22:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: TTY spares request Message-ID: <200208192221.PAA15036@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Ethan Dicks" > >--- Mike Ross wrote: >> Hope someone can help - perhaps they're lying in a NJ warehouse! >> >> Been checking out my old ASR33s, a couple of them are missing the small >> bar (shaped like a 'double Y') which connects the keyboard mechanism to >> the printer. Anybody got any spares? > >Dan Cohoe and I both made the rounds of the TTY spares on the balcony >of the Armory in NJ (thanks again, William!) I do not recall seeing >anything of that nature amidst the bits. Spare keytops, plattens, >chad bins, springs and more, but no keyboard butterflies. > >It's a flat part and shouldn't be as critical on the manufacturing >tolerances as parts in the printer carriage - if you have one, it >should be possible to make duplicates. If you don't have any, someone >could throw one on a flatbed scanner... You might even be able to get >away with a plastic replacement - wouldn't be as durable (months/years >instead of years/decades), but you could make a stack of them. Hi The piece has to transmit quit a bit of torque to reset the keyboard. I'm not sure if a piece of plastic could handle it. One could carve it out of a piece of cold rolled steel using a dremel tool. It has a slot in the center to make it easy to remove and install with a screw driver but this part isn't needed. The rest is just cutting around the edges. I don't have a scanner so maybe someone else can make a picture. Dwight > >If you have any friends who are train buffs, especially those who make >their own engines/cars from raw materials rather than kits, they should >have the necessary tools/skills to copy a 1"x2" flat piece of metal >with a few notches and curvy bits. > >-ethan > > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs >http://www.hotjobs.com > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 19 17:25:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: (fwd) FS: Various (fwd) In-Reply-To: <200208182116.39781.rhudson@cnonline.net> from "Ron Hudson" at Aug 18, 2 09:16:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1226 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020819/502619ae/attachment.ksh From archer at topnow.com Mon Aug 19 17:30:01 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: COSMAC VIP documentation (was Re: Need help finding old IBM PC game) References: <3.0.6.16.20020819144217.52c7ac1a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20020819173707.1357fd7a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3D617172.B87C02C2@topnow.com> Joe wrote: > > At 01:47 PM 8/19/02 -0700, you wrote: > > > >--- Joe wrote: > >> At 10:36 AM 8/19/02 -0700, you wrote: > >> > > >> >--- Joe wrote: > >> >> I was in a surplus store today and... > >> >>... did find a 6 inch high stack of manuals for the RCA Cosmac VIP > >> >> :-) :-) :-) :-) > >> > > >> >Did you get them? > >> > >> You bet! > > > >Good for you. > > > >> If so, what part numbers? > >> > > > >http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dllViewSellersOtherItems&userid=rigdonj > > > >> No one seemed interested so I put them on E-bay. If you're interested in > >> the VIP or ELFs then take a good look at them, there's LOTS of good info > >> in them. > > > >Looks like I have originals for all of the photocopied data sheets > >and RCA manuals you have (and possibly one or two you don't), but I > >do not have any issues of VIPER. > > The VIPER news-letters are really great. There's loads of good info in them. Mike has PILES of RCA docs for the Cosmac, ELF, VIP and other 1802 stuff. > > > > >> I have a VIP too (altough Mike has it at the moment). I bought at a > >> hamfest earlier this year. I bought the manuals from the same people > >> except they were at their store. 99% chance that these manuals went with > >> that same VIP. > > > >I got my VIP about 16 years ago for $35 at Dayton (same year I got > >an ASR-33 w/110 baud data set for $20). What manuals I have, came > >from the local RCA distributor for cover price ($5) or free. > > I got this VIP for substantially less than that at a recent hamfest. Mike Haas and I had both been over this guys stuff at least three times then I decided to go through the stuff one more time while Mike went and got the car. That's when I found the VIP. Needless to say, Mike was quite upset! It's amazing how many times you can look through the same stuff and still find something that you previously overlooked. > > > > >Somewhere, I have a cassette of CHIP-8 and most of the CHIP-8 games > >from the VIP manuals - I typed it all in and saved it to tape myself. > >One of my ultra-low priority projects is to locate the tape, slurp > >it into a modern machine and cut MP3s of the programs and see if I > >can use my Rio PMP300 (or portable CDDA/MP3 player) as a load device. > > That would be "interesting"! It would probably work. I have a few KIM-1 cassette programs (most at 3x normal speed) posted as WAVs at http://www.learnmicros.com. (And a few songs that KIM sings too, also as WAVs.) :) This seems to be 100% reliable once you get the levels right. As an aside, none of those recordings came from a recorder, but directly from a "C" program which generated the WAV samples. Probably the worst case would be you'd need an RC low-pass filter between the playback device and your cassette input, to simulate the low-pass characteristics of a voice-grade tape recorder. Undoubtedly, you'd have to experiment with the sample rate and stuff. I found 16 Khz mono with 8 bit samples works fine for KIM at 3x speed (half-hypertape.) I couldn't figure out how to generate half a wave in my "C" program, so I stopped at 3 x normal speed. Hypertape's still da fastest for KIM. :) -- Ross -- Ross > > Joe > > > > >-ethan > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs > >http://www.hotjobs.com > > From foxvideo at wincom.net Mon Aug 19 17:36:00 2002 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: Applied Microsystems EM 188 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020819183445.00b25c30@mail.wincom.net> >Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 08:59:32 -0400 >To: cctalk@classiccmp >From: "Charles E. Fox" >Subject: : Applied Microsystems EM 188 > > >>Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 08:54:44 -0400 >>To: cctalk@classicmp.org >>From: "Charles E. Fox" >>Subject: Applied Microsystems EM 188 >> >> Over the weekend I acquired a goodly load of equipment, >> including an Applied Microsystems EM 188 "Diagnostic Emulator". While >> Applied Microsystems are still with us, they apparently have forgotten >> all about this product. >> Does anyone happen to have any information about it? >> >> Regards >> >> Charlie Fox >> >> Charles E. Fox Video Production >> 793 Argyle Rd. >> Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 >> 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net >> Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" >> at http://chasfoxvideo.com > > > Charles E. Fox Video Production > 793 Argyle Rd. > Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 > 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net > Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" > at http://chasfoxvideo.com Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From archer at topnow.com Mon Aug 19 17:46:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Has any interfaced a 360K floppy to a pentium-class PC? Message-ID: <3D617522.979B6CE4@topnow.com> Can't make my Toshiba 360K floppy drive work on my Athlon or P4 machine to save my life. I've tried every jumper setting I can think of on the drive. The best I get is a disk failure, where I try to access the drive, and the LED comes on and spins the disk for a while, then fails. Yes, I'm using the right cable. :) It has a 34 pin header plug (remember those?) that used to be standard on floppy cables all those years ago. Jameco still sells them. :) Yes, I set the BIOS to 360K. Still no dice. Anybody have any clues as to what might be going wrong? Thanks, even if nobody has any ideas. :) -- Ross From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Aug 19 18:07:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: Applied Microsystems EM 188 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020819183445.00b25c30@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020819190846.496728e4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I'm not sure which one the 188 is but I have the 180B which emulates the Z-80 CPU (but I'm missing the pod for it :-( I also a complete unit that emulates the 8085 CPU but I don't have it handy and I don't remember the model number. Al Kossow has the manual for one of the models posted on his website but I don't have the URL to it. Basicly they plug into a target system and let you single step, set breakpoints, examine/change memory and CPU registers. If you have the optional memmory in your unit, you can set it to "replace" any part of the system memory. That means that you can load your software in it and run it just as if it was in the target system. I think you can operate the EMxxx from a computer but I'm not certain. But you can use the RS-232 port to upload and download test software into it. There's also socket on the front of the EMxxx that you can plug an EPROM into. It intended for use with EPROMs that contain test routines for the target system. This is just a brief description based on what I remember off the top of my head. The AMC systems look like very usefull devices provided that you get the pods with them. Joe At 06:35 PM 8/19/02 -0400, you wrote: > >>Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 08:59:32 -0400 >>To: cctalk@classiccmp >>From: "Charles E. Fox" >>Subject: : Applied Microsystems EM 188 >> >> >>>Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 08:54:44 -0400 >>>To: cctalk@classicmp.org >>>From: "Charles E. Fox" >>>Subject: Applied Microsystems EM 188 >>> >>> Over the weekend I acquired a goodly load of equipment, >>> including an Applied Microsystems EM 188 "Diagnostic Emulator". While >>> Applied Microsystems are still with us, they apparently have forgotten >>> all about this product. >>> Does anyone happen to have any information about it? >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Charlie Fox >>> >>> Charles E. Fox Video Production >>> 793 Argyle Rd. >>> Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 >>> 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net >>> Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" >>> at http://chasfoxvideo.com >> >> >> Charles E. Fox Video Production >> 793 Argyle Rd. >> Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 >> 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net >> Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" >> at http://chasfoxvideo.com > > > Charles E. Fox Video Production > 793 Argyle Rd. > Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 > 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net > Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" > at http://chasfoxvideo.com > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 19 18:16:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: TTY spares request In-Reply-To: <20020819213449.26152.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Aug 19, 2 02:34:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2614 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020819/ae0f5d8d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 19 18:16:14 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: PDP 11/24 Wierd Unibus Setup In-Reply-To: <000d01c247cb$28f0fb50$3200a8c0@winnt> from "Christopher McNabb" at Aug 19, 2 05:55:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1161 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020819/81081c26/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Mon Aug 19 18:21:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: COSMAC VIP documentation (was Re: Need help finding old IBM PC game) In-Reply-To: <20020819204757.77137.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Aug 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Somewhere, I have a cassette of CHIP-8 and most of the CHIP-8 games > from the VIP manuals - I typed it all in and saved it to tape myself. > One of my ultra-low priority projects is to locate the tape, slurp > it into a modern machine and cut MP3s of the programs and see if I > can use my Rio PMP300 (or portable CDDA/MP3 player) as a load device. MP3 won't work. I've tried it. Also, I've been told it won't by people who know better than me that it is too lossy. Use a straight WAV file recording instead. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Aug 19 18:25:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: Applied Microsystems EM 188 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020819190846.496728e4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Aug 2002, Joe wrote: > I'm not sure which one the 188 is but I have the 180B which emulates > the Z-80 CPU (but I'm missing the pod for it :-( I also a complete unit The 188 emulates the 8088. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Mon Aug 19 18:29:01 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:43 2005 Subject: PDP 11/24 Wierd Unibus Setup References: Message-ID: <000d01c247d8$295a7fa0$3200a8c0@winnt> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" > > Are you sure it's _anything_ (rather than just being a few spare > flip-chips)? From what I remember all you have there are a few gates (and > maybe FFs) -- there's no M105 Unibus address decoder, no M782/7820/7821 > Unibus Interrupt logic, no bus drivers or receivers. I can't see it's any > complete device, unless it was a bit of logic hung off (say) an DR11. > Does the backplane have an official DEC sticker on the side of the metal > frame? If so, what does it say? > This particular machine did come from a government testing lab, so it probably had some custom stuff in it originally. The machine seems to work fine without the flip chips installed. I looked up the M660 in the 1973-74 loginc handbook and identified it as a 'Positive Level Cable Driver'. The description (from the book) is: "The M660 Cable Driver consists of three NAND gate circuits each of which will drive a 100 ohm terminated cable with M series levels or pulses of greater than 100 ns." The other cards, as you said, are just various logic gates: M112 - Nor Gate M113 - Nand Gates M116 - Six 4 input NAND Gates M205 - General Purpose Flip Flops From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Aug 19 18:38:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Has any interfaced a 360K floppy to a pentium-class PC? In-Reply-To: <3D617522.979B6CE4@topnow.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Aug 2002, Ross Archer wrote: > Can't make my Toshiba 360K floppy drive work on my Athlon or > P4 machine to save my life. I've tried every jumper setting > I can think of on the drive. The best I get is a disk > failure, > where I try to access the drive, and the LED comes on and > spins > the disk for a while, then fails. It is very likely that one or more people here can help with the problem, but not until you provide some more information: What model Toshiba 360K floppy? What kind of motherboard/disk controller? What operating system are you using? When you say "try to access the drive", what EXACTLY are you doing? (double clicking on an icon in "My computer"? typing DIR at a DOS prompt? "ls"?, . . . ) Have you tried to FORMAT with it? What kind of diskette is in the drive? What was that diskette written with? Does the drive work on other machines? Does your computer work with other drives? Do you have other drives in that machine? Do they still work when that drive is connected? When you say that you get a "disk failure", what is the EXACT wording of the message? If that is a Windoze message, what message do you get at the command prompt? > Yes, I'm using the right cable. :) It has a 34 pin header > plug > (remember those?) that used to be standard on floppy cables > all > those years ago. Jameco still sells them. :) > Yes, I set the BIOS to 360K. Still no dice. All of the Toshiba 360K floppy drives that I can think of use a CARD-EDGE connector, NOT a "header" > > Anybody have any clues as to what might be going wrong? > > Thanks, even if nobody has any ideas. :) > > -- Ross From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Aug 19 18:40:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Has any interfaced a 360K floppy to a pentium-class PC? In-Reply-To: <3D617522.979B6CE4@topnow.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020819193815.49871ef8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Ross, What OS are you running? I seem to recall that W98 dropped support for single sided 5 1/4" disks and some of the other older formats (320k, etc). I suspect that that's whats happened to your drive. Joe At 03:45 PM 8/19/02 -0700, you wrote: >Can't make my Toshiba 360K floppy drive work on my Athlon or >P4 machine to save my life. I've tried every jumper setting >I can think of on the drive. The best I get is a disk >failure, >where I try to access the drive, and the LED comes on and >spins >the disk for a while, then fails. > >Yes, I'm using the right cable. :) It has a 34 pin header >plug >(remember those?) that used to be standard on floppy cables >all >those years ago. Jameco still sells them. :) >Yes, I set the BIOS to 360K. Still no dice. > >Anybody have any clues as to what might be going wrong? > >Thanks, even if nobody has any ideas. :) > >-- Ross > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Aug 19 18:40:22 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Applied Microsystems EM 188 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20020819190846.496728e4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020819194200.49872574@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Sellam, Just in case you forgot, I still need that manual for the 8085 emulator if you ever find it. Charlie, Here's a link to Al's site . I'm not sure where the EM???? file is, you'll just have to look for it. Joe At 08:24 AM 8/19/02 -0700, you wrote: >On Mon, 19 Aug 2002, Joe wrote: > >> I'm not sure which one the 188 is but I have the 180B which emulates >> the Z-80 CPU (but I'm missing the pod for it :-( I also a complete unit > >The 188 emulates the 8088. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 19 18:44:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: PDP 11/24 Wierd Unibus Setup In-Reply-To: <000d01c247d8$295a7fa0$3200a8c0@winnt> from "Christopher McNabb" at Aug 19, 2 07:28:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 972 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020819/b3f2982f/attachment.ksh From classiccmp at crash.com Mon Aug 19 18:51:00 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M. Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Gnarly Z80 based desk/computer on eBay Message-ID: <200208192350.g7JNok200808@io.crash.com> Noval 760 desk/computer on eBay. Like something out of Our Man Flynt, half the desk tilts up to expose the CRT and cassette drive! Z80 based and still working, somewhere in Kansas. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2047467277 No affiliation, and this one's so big I wouldn't even be interested if it were nearby. --Steve. Steve Jones smj@spamfree.crash.com Arlington, Mass. CRASH!! Computing (One domain element should be removed) "Your information doesn't sleep. Why should your programmers?" From archer at topnow.com Mon Aug 19 18:53:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Has any interfaced a 360K floppy to apentium-class PC? References: <3.0.6.16.20020819193815.49871ef8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3D6184DB.A32842AC@topnow.com> Joe wrote: > > Ross, > > What OS are you running? I seem to recall that W98 dropped support for single sided 5 1/4" disks and some of the other older formats (320k, etc). I suspect that that's whats happened to your drive. > > Joe Windoze XP. But my BIOS doesn't recognize it either, and it has settings for 360K. > > At 03:45 PM 8/19/02 -0700, you wrote: > >Can't make my Toshiba 360K floppy drive work on my Athlon or > >P4 machine to save my life. I've tried every jumper setting > >I can think of on the drive. The best I get is a disk > >failure, > >where I try to access the drive, and the LED comes on and > >spins > >the disk for a while, then fails. > > > >Yes, I'm using the right cable. :) It has a 34 pin header > >plug > >(remember those?) that used to be standard on floppy cables > >all > >those years ago. Jameco still sells them. :) > >Yes, I set the BIOS to 360K. Still no dice. > > > >Anybody have any clues as to what might be going wrong? > > > >Thanks, even if nobody has any ideas. :) > > > >-- Ross > > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 19 19:07:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: IBM 3295 Plazma Display Message-ID: To the best of my knowledge, 3290s are meant to talk to 3274s.. But I think it depends on the exact model... I hope mine are for 3274s, I wanna use 'em on the 4381. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Aug 19 19:08:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Has any interfaced a 360K floppy to apentium-class PC? In-Reply-To: <3D6184DB.A32842AC@topnow.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Aug 2002, Ross Archer wrote: > Joe wrote: > > > > Ross, > > > > What OS are you running? I seem to recall that W98 dropped support for single sided 5 1/4" disks and some of the other older formats (320k, etc). I suspect that that's whats happened to your drive. > > > > Joe > > Windoze XP. But my BIOS doesn't recognize it either, > and it has settings for 360K. This may seem obvious, but are you sure that the drive and cable are functional? I've never had a problem with hooking a 360KB drive to any PC, including my ASUS dual-athlon board. -- Pat From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Mon Aug 19 19:15:01 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: PDP 11/24 Wierd Unibus Setup References: Message-ID: <001301c247de$8f4a53c0$3200a8c0@winnt> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 7:34 PM Subject: Re: PDP 11/24 Wierd Unibus Setup > > Was there a DR11 in the machine when you got it? Any unusual cards at > all? Was there an empty slot where a DR11 could have been fitted? > There is a Qbus expansion case with a DRV11C and an M9400/9401 extension cable. Haven't plugged it in since I have no idea where on the unibus it goes. From archer at topnow.com Mon Aug 19 19:17:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Has any interfaced a 360K floppy to apentium-class PC? References: Message-ID: <3D618A7E.5E66710F@topnow.com> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > On Mon, 19 Aug 2002, Ross Archer wrote: > > > Joe wrote: > > > > > > Ross, > > > > > > What OS are you running? I seem to recall that W98 dropped support for single sided 5 1/4" disks and some of the other older formats (320k, etc). I suspect that that's whats happened to your drive. > > > > > > Joe > > > > Windoze XP. But my BIOS doesn't recognize it either, > > and it has settings for 360K. > > This may seem obvious, but are you sure that the drive and cable are > functional? I've never had a problem with hooking a 360KB drive to any > PC, including my ASUS dual-athlon board. > > -- Pat No. I tried two different cables, both new, but only have one 360K drive. If anyone wants to send me a good 360K drive to compare against, I won't complain. ;) I forgot to mention, I also tried it on my Linux box with a K6-2 350. Also no dice with any of the 360K drivers. From sloboyko at yahoo.com Mon Aug 19 19:28:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Gnarly Z80 based desk/computer on eBay In-Reply-To: <200208192350.g7JNok200808@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <20020820002815.55551.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> I've seen this in a 197X Byte magazine, it was (obviously) extremely expensive when new, first class. Probably pretty rare - I doubt if they made many. --- "Steven M. Jones" wrote: > Noval 760 desk/computer on eBay. Like something out > of Our Man Flynt, > half the desk tilts up to expose the CRT and > cassette drive! Z80 based > and still working, somewhere in Kansas. > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2047467277 > > No affiliation, and this one's so big I wouldn't > even be interested if > it were nearby. > > --Steve. > > Steve Jones smj@spamfree.crash.com > Arlington, Mass. > CRASH!! Computing (One domain element should be > removed) > > "Your information doesn't sleep. Why should > your programmers?" > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Mon Aug 19 21:20:00 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: TTY spares request Message-ID: > Dan Cohoe and I both made the rounds of the TTY spares on the balcony > of the Armory in NJ (thanks again, William!) I do not recall seeing > anything of that nature amidst the bits. Spare keytops, plattens, > chad bins, springs and more, but no keyboard butterflies. Oh wow! There are chad bins there? I need one for my 33. Is anyone going back that way? Thanks! From cbajpai at attbi.com Mon Aug 19 21:28:00 2002 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Gnarly Z80 based desk/computer on eBay In-Reply-To: <200208192350.g7JNok200808@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <000501c247f1$033e4c20$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> I just received some 1977 Bytes magazines the other day and there was an ad + review of this monster. I can't imagine how you ship this thing. -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Steven M. Jones Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 7:51 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Gnarly Z80 based desk/computer on eBay Noval 760 desk/computer on eBay. Like something out of Our Man Flynt, half the desk tilts up to expose the CRT and cassette drive! Z80 based and still working, somewhere in Kansas. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2047467277 No affiliation, and this one's so big I wouldn't even be interested if it were nearby. --Steve. Steve Jones smj@spamfree.crash.com Arlington, Mass. CRASH!! Computing (One domain element should be removed) "Your information doesn't sleep. Why should your programmers?" From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Aug 19 21:28:19 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: TTY spares request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Oh wow! There are chad bins there? I need one for my 33. Is anyone > going back that way? I *might* be able to grab one - I have grabbed some 33 thingies (please, no requests until this whole project is done) already. Time for the remaining TTY gunk is running out... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 19 22:46:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: COSMAC VIP documentation (was Re: Need help finding old IBM PC game) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020820034552.59846.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 19 Aug 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > One of my ultra-low priority projects is to locate the tape, slurp > > it into a modern machine and cut MP3s of the programs and see if I > > can use my Rio PMP300 (or portable CDDA/MP3 player) as a load device. > > MP3 won't work. I've tried it. Also, I've been told it won't by people > who know better than me that it is too lossy. Have you tried monsterously large bitrates? I have no personal experience with it, but I can see your point about lossiness. I'm just curious if it's possible no matter what the file size. > Use a straight WAV file recording instead. My fallback is 44100 KHz audio files and a portable CD player. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Aug 19 22:52:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Gnarly Z80 based desk/computer on eBay In-Reply-To: <200208192350.g7JNok200808@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020819234207.4a072cde@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:51 PM 8/19/02 -0400, Steve wrote: >Noval 760 desk/computer on eBay. Like something out of Our Man Flynt, >half the desk tilts up to expose the CRT and cassette drive! Z80 based >and still working, somewhere in Kansas. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2047467277 > >No affiliation, and this one's so big I wouldn't even be interested if >it were nearby. Damm! That looks cool! FWIW Olathe is just south of Kansas City. My wife is out at her company's headquarters in KC right now and she stays in Olathe. But I know she wouldn't bring this beauty back! But it's within range of Gary Hildebrand, Jim Willing, Jeff Kaneko and a couple of others. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Aug 19 22:52:33 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Has any interfaced a 360K floppy to apentium-class PC? In-Reply-To: <3D6184DB.A32842AC@topnow.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20020819193815.49871ef8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020819235209.4a076258@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:52 PM 8/19/02 -0700, you wrote: >Joe wrote: >> >> Ross, >> >> What OS are you running? I seem to recall that W98 dropped support for single sided 5 1/4" disks and some of the other older formats (320k, etc). I suspect that that's whats happened to your drive. >> >> Joe > >Windoze XP. But my BIOS doesn't recognize it either, >and it has settings for 360K. How do you know that your BIOS doesn't recognize it? I know some will auto-detect hard drives but I've never seen one that did anything with floppy drives. All the ones that I've seen, you simply set the type drive and that's it. Actually when I found that W98 didn't support some old 5 1/4" formats I assumed that it was due to W98 but it may have something to do with the BIOS. But that's questionable since it handles some formats but not others. I wonder if it might be something to so with the drive controller since DD and HD drives have different data rates. Perhaps the controller doesn't support the data rate used by the DD 5 1/4" drives? But if that's true then why would the manufacturer allow a 360k settting in the BIOS? It sounds like you need to contact the motherboard manufacturer and ask them about it. The other thing you could try is to get one of the older floppy drive controller cards that has it's own BIOS and see if it works. OTOH you probably don't even have an ISA slot in that new MB. Joe > > >> >> At 03:45 PM 8/19/02 -0700, you wrote: >> >Can't make my Toshiba 360K floppy drive work on my Athlon or >> >P4 machine to save my life. I've tried every jumper setting >> >I can think of on the drive. The best I get is a disk >> >failure, >> >where I try to access the drive, and the LED comes on and >> >spins >> >the disk for a while, then fails. >> > >> >Yes, I'm using the right cable. :) It has a 34 pin header >> >plug >> >(remember those?) that used to be standard on floppy cables >> >all >> >those years ago. Jameco still sells them. :) >> >Yes, I set the BIOS to 360K. Still no dice. >> > >> >Anybody have any clues as to what might be going wrong? >> > >> >Thanks, even if nobody has any ideas. :) >> > >> >-- Ross >> > > From NAVIGATE87 at aol.com Mon Aug 19 22:52:55 2002 From: NAVIGATE87 at aol.com (NAVIGATE87@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Fluke Pods Message-ID: <152.12b42d43.2a9316eb@aol.com> Joe, I have pods for the 1802, 6502, 6800, 6802, 6808, 6809, 68000, 8048, 8080, 8085, 8086, 8088, 80186, 80188, 80286, 9900, Z80, and 24, 28, and 32 pin rom emulators Looking for a 9000 pod, the probe, and of course tapes. I talked to Breamar, they support the tape drive and sell tapes so that problem should be solved for now. Thanks, Don From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 19 22:59:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP documentation) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020819173707.1357fd7a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20020820035903.49010.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Joe wrote: I wrote: > >Somewhere, I have a cassette of CHIP-8 and most of the CHIP-8 games > >from the VIP manuals... > > That would be "interesting"! I may have found the tape. I _did_ find the paper index. It lists the CHIP-8 interpreter and six programs: Space Intercept, Spooky Shot, Shooting Stars, Drawing Tablet, Hex Reflex and Amazing. I would play with it tonight, but the felt pad has fallen off the metal leaf spring behind the tape, and the first few inches got wrinkled in my player when I tried to listen to it. The data is not sacred; I have the hardware and the manuals and I can recreate the tape from absolute scratch, but I remember it took hours and hours to successfully enter and verify CHIP-8 itself (the programs are tiny by comparison). I'd rather not duplicate that effort, but if I have to, I suppose I could. Worst case, I'll have to type stuff in, then "save" through a PeeCee sound card. I am a little concerned about mains noise, so I'm considering building a 1A +5VDC battery-operated supply (trivial) or recording to a laptop. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Aug 19 23:10:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Fluke Pods In-Reply-To: <152.12b42d43.2a9316eb@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020820001204.3edf10cc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Don, At 11:52 PM 8/19/02 EDT, you wrote: >Joe, >I have pods for the 1802, 6502, 6800, 6802, 6808, 6809, 68000, 8048, 8080, >8085, 8086, 8088, 80186, 80188, 80286, 9900, Z80, and 24, 28, and 32 pin rom >emulators Damm! That's quite a collection! Do you use all those? >Looking for a 9000 pod, There is no 9000 pod AFIK. Do you mean the 9100 mainframe? If so I know where there's one at. the probe, and of course tapes. I talked to Breamar, >they support the tape drive and sell tapes so that problem should be solved >for now. How much do they charge for tapes? I haven't tried to do anything with the Fluke tape drives but I used to repair a lot of HP tape drives and I expect that I could fix these easy enough. But it seemed like it wasn't really necessary since you can easily interface them to a PC and save everything there. FWIW there is a small HP digital cassette drive that uses the same size tapes. I THINK the tapes are interchangable but I've never tried it. The HP tapes are scarce as hen's teeth too so there wasn't any point except perhaps just to satisfy my curiousity. These are the only two things that I've ever seen that used those tapes. Joe >Thanks, >Don > From fernande at internet1.net Mon Aug 19 23:11:01 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Has any interfaced a 360K floppy to a pentium-class PC? References: <3D617522.979B6CE4@topnow.com> Message-ID: <3D61BEF8.4030107@internet1.net> Hi Ross, I have a Teac 360K floppy drive installed in my Socket 7 system. It weorks just fine, although, I'm not using the onboard floppy controller. I accidently blew the onboard controller up with a heatsink that wasn't glued down :-( I'm using the floppy controller on an old WD RLL HD controller. I don't recall if I ever had a 360K floppy on the mb's floppy controller or not. I'm running Win98 on this machine. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Ross Archer wrote: > Can't make my Toshiba 360K floppy drive work on my Athlon or > P4 machine to save my life. I've tried every jumper setting > I can think of on the drive. The best I get is a disk > failure, > where I try to access the drive, and the LED comes on and > spins > the disk for a while, then fails. > > Yes, I'm using the right cable. :) It has a 34 pin header > plug > (remember those?) that used to be standard on floppy cables > all > those years ago. Jameco still sells them. :) > Yes, I set the BIOS to 360K. Still no dice. > > Anybody have any clues as to what might be going wrong? > > Thanks, even if nobody has any ideas. :) > > -- Ross > > From sloboyko at yahoo.com Mon Aug 19 23:30:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Fluke Pods In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020820001204.3edf10cc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20020820042951.80157.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> Logic analyzers are approximately as good as space heaters/nightlights without the pods. I wish I could get an 8080/8085 pod for my Tek 1230. Just ORDINARY logic analyzer pods are darned near impossible. --- Joe wrote: > Don, > > At 11:52 PM 8/19/02 EDT, you wrote: > >Joe, > >I have pods for the 1802, 6502, 6800, 6802, 6808, > 6809, 68000, 8048, 8080, > >8085, 8086, 8088, 80186, 80188, 80286, 9900, Z80, > and 24, 28, and 32 pin rom > >emulators > > Damm! That's quite a collection! Do you use all > those? > > > >Looking for a 9000 pod, > > There is no 9000 pod AFIK. Do you mean the 9100 > mainframe? If so I know where there's one at. > > > the probe, and of course tapes. I talked to Breamar, > > >they support the tape drive and sell tapes so that > problem should be solved > >for now. > > How much do they charge for tapes? I haven't > tried to do anything with the Fluke tape drives but > I used to repair a lot of HP tape drives and I > expect that I could fix these easy enough. But it > seemed like it wasn't really necessary since you can > easily interface them to a PC and save everything > there. FWIW there is a small HP digital cassette > drive that uses the same size tapes. I THINK the > tapes are interchangable but I've never tried it. > The HP tapes are scarce as hen's teeth too so there > wasn't any point except perhaps just to satisfy my > curiousity. These are the only two things that I've > ever seen that used those tapes. > > Joe > > > >Thanks, > >Don > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Aug 19 23:30:31 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Gnarly Z80 based desk/computer on eBay In-Reply-To: <000501c247f1$033e4c20$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> References: <200208192350.g7JNok200808@io.crash.com> <000501c247f1$033e4c20$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <31031.207.55.102.175.1029817822.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I can't imagine how you ship this thing. Motor freight. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Aug 20 00:03:01 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: HP 1000 References: Message-ID: <007501c24806$d8062440$f743cd18@D73KSM11> There is a huge HP 1000 gov't surplus rack available near Harrisburg, PA. Here's a pic: http://home.earthlink.net/~wmsmith/HP1000.jpg Contact me for details if interested. -W From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 20 00:07:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Fluke Pods In-Reply-To: <152.12b42d43.2a9316eb@aol.com> Message-ID: <20020820050723.77856.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- NAVIGATE87@aol.com wrote: > Joe, > I have pods for the 1802, 6502, 6800, 6802, 6808, 6809, 68000, 8048, > 8080, 8085, 8086, 8088, 80186, 80188, 80286, 9900, Z80, and 24, 28, > and 32 pin rom emulators... Wow! I only have two of those. Out of that humongous list, the 1802 is probably the one I'd want to find next. After that, I suppose the Z-80. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com From GOOI at oce.nl Tue Aug 20 01:06:00 2002 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: RT-11 Memory Issues Message-ID: <30DBA2DACC0CD611B3E60008C7092D8F2F8EED@hqvenloexch.oce.nl> > The problem is that you actually have less memory available when you > run XM since it is a larger monitor. And we're talking about memory > in the critical area of the low 56kb. If VGBEXE is no solution to run ADVENT, try using the SJ monitor. I had exactly the same problem (in E11) and lots of memory available. Booting into SingleJob was the solution for me. Didn't help much getting throught ADVENT, but that a completely different story ... happy gaming, - Henk. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Aug 20 01:07:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Mac benchmarking Message-ID: <200208200614.XAA08216@stockholm.ptloma.edu> While trying to benchmark Fusion PC (as a IIci) on my AMD DOS PC, I threw together a small implementation of the Sieve of Eratosthenes and Ahl's Simple Benchmark to test integer and FPU performance. Like everything else in my life, this snowballed, so here is the fruit of my labours for people who are interested in benchmarking their 68K Macintosh. http://www.floodgap.com/retrotech/mac/ahl/ The reference is a Mac Plus running 6.0.8 with 2.5MB RAM and the stock 8MHz 68000 CPU. However, to make it really vintage, I tested it against a Mac Plus running System 1.1 and it worked! 512K RAM recommended. Just to prove I have a sense of humour, the benchmark is in Modula-2. Some of the tests ran on my classic Mac stable had rather startling results. For example, the Daystar PowerCentral control panel seems to accelerate FPU performance on the IIci, even with no Daystar hardware installed. Comments? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism. ----------------- From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Aug 20 09:28:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: HP 1000 In-Reply-To: <007501c24806$d8062440$f743cd18@D73KSM11> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020820102451.57aff9f4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> That looks like a good one. I see that it includes a removable hard drive. Joe At 10:02 PM 8/19/02 -0700, you wrote: >There is a huge HP 1000 gov't surplus rack available near >Harrisburg, PA. Here's a pic: > >http://home.earthlink.net/~wmsmith/HP1000.jpg > >Contact me for details if interested. > >-W > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Aug 20 09:29:47 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Fluke Pods In-Reply-To: <20020820042951.80157.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20020820001204.3edf10cc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020820102231.527799ce@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:29 PM 8/19/02 -0700, Steve wrote: >Logic analyzers are approximately as good as space >heaters/nightlights without the pods. I wish I could >get an 8080/8085 pod for my Tek 1230. Just ORDINARY >logic analyzer pods are darned near impossible. You're certainly right about that. I wouldn't touch any kind of test equipment that doesn't include the pods (unless someone gives it to me). It generally cost more to buy the pods than it costs for a complete unit including, pods, manuals and accessories. FWIW when I go scrounging I make it a point to look through all the scrap wire bins for any probes, pods, etc. They make good trading material even if I don't need them. Joe > >--- Joe wrote: >> Don, >> >> At 11:52 PM 8/19/02 EDT, you wrote: >> >Joe, >> >I have pods for the 1802, 6502, 6800, 6802, 6808, >> 6809, 68000, 8048, 8080, >> >8085, 8086, 8088, 80186, 80188, 80286, 9900, Z80, >> and 24, 28, and 32 pin rom >> >emulators >> >> Damm! That's quite a collection! Do you use all >> those? >> >> >> >Looking for a 9000 pod, >> >> There is no 9000 pod AFIK. Do you mean the 9100 >> mainframe? If so I know where there's one at. >> >> >> the probe, and of course tapes. I talked to Breamar, >> >> >they support the tape drive and sell tapes so that >> problem should be solved >> >for now. >> >> How much do they charge for tapes? I haven't >> tried to do anything with the Fluke tape drives but >> I used to repair a lot of HP tape drives and I >> expect that I could fix these easy enough. But it >> seemed like it wasn't really necessary since you can >> easily interface them to a PC and save everything >> there. FWIW there is a small HP digital cassette >> drive that uses the same size tapes. I THINK the >> tapes are interchangable but I've never tried it. >> The HP tapes are scarce as hen's teeth too so there >> wasn't any point except perhaps just to satisfy my >> curiousity. These are the only two things that I've >> ever seen that used those tapes. >> >> Joe >> >> >> >Thanks, >> >Don >> > >> >> > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs >http://www.hotjobs.com > From Mzthompson at aol.com Tue Aug 20 10:42:00 2002 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Latest Delivery - DEC & Intel Message-ID: <12f.1632db2c.2a93bd30@aol.com> I've said it before, but it is worth repeating. It is nice once you get 'em trained to bring the stuff to you. The problem is that you have to take it all, it just does not seem proper to pick and choose from their vehicle when they deliver it. Anyway, the latest: 5 DEC BA42 Storage Expansion boxes containing 8 RZ5x drives (RZ55 thru RZ58) also found an IBM drive mounted to a TZ30 mounting bracket in one of the boxes, hey SCSI is SCSI. 5 DEC binders, 3 are Ultrix Sys Admin volumes, 1 for the 5000/200, 1 for the DECstation 3100 AutoCad for the DECstation 3100 Ultrix 4.4 tapes (VAX) Kodak laser printer VME chassis and a couple prototype cards. 6 Gateway 486 desktops 9 Compudyne desktops, a couple are 386, the rest 486 I could have done without the Compudynes. Many do have network cards worth pulling. Also at least one has some 4mb 30 pin SIMMs. Mike From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 20 11:34:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Has any interfaced a 360K floppy to a pentium-class PC? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020819193815.49871ef8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Aug 2002, Joe wrote: > What OS are you running? I seem to recall that W98 dropped support for > single sided 5 1/4" disks and some of the other older formats (320k, > etc). I suspect that that's whats happened to your drive. Notwithstanding this being Microsoft we are talking about, I find that incredibly stupid that they would drop support for older formats. It's not like they are trying to cut down on bloat or anything, and cutting out the tiny bit of code to handle older formats will require them to ship another install CD. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 20 11:34:39 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Applied Microsystems EM 188 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020819194200.49872574@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Aug 2002, Joe wrote: > Just in case you forgot, I still need that manual for the 8085 > emulator if you ever find it. If I ever find it ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 20 11:37:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Gnarly Z80 based desk/computer on eBay In-Reply-To: <200208192350.g7JNok200808@io.crash.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Aug 2002, Steven M. Jones wrote: > Noval 760 desk/computer on eBay. Like something out of Our Man Flynt, > half the desk tilts up to expose the CRT and cassette drive! Z80 based > and still working, somewhere in Kansas. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2047467277 Wow! It's from 1971! This is a rare find that will change the history of microcomputers as we know it. I don't know, maybe it's because it is my business to know dates and timelines with regards to computer history, but why do people tend to think their old computers are older than they actually are? I always run into people who say something like "Oh yeah, I have a TRS-80 from 1974!" Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 20 11:42:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Gnarly Z80 based desk/computer on eBay In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020819234207.4a072cde@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Aug 2002, Joe wrote: > Damm! That looks cool! FWIW Olathe is just south of Kansas City. My > wife is out at her company's headquarters in KC right now and she stays > in Olathe. But I know she wouldn't bring this beauty back! But it's > within range of Gary Hildebrand, Jim Willing, Jeff Kaneko and a couple of > others. It's also within reach of any shipper who runs service in that area to California ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 20 12:50:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: RL02 woes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020820175029.80205.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I'm having some problems getting my RL02 drive to play nice with my RLV12 > in my VAXstation 3200... OK. > I've got the drive connected to the controller with a piece of 40pin > ribbon cable from an IDE drive, since I have no 'offical' cable to > connect the two (or a cab kit for the controller). Never done that (always had cables), but for a short distance, it should work. > The drive is set to ID 3, because I don't have a '0' Ready light cover. Also never done that. Don't remember if it works or not. We were always short of 0s and 1s (but seemed to always have a box of 2s and 3s ;-) > Also, I don't have a terminator to use. Major problem. > Right now, the drive has its 'FAULT' light on, including when the VAX is > powered up and at its monitor. As has been mentioned numerous times, the FAULT light will stay lit until you secure a terminator. > A 'SHOW QBUS' shows the adaptor at address 774400 (I think), That's the right place. > and a 'SHOW RLV12' shows no devices attached to the controller. Don't expect it to find FAULTed drives. > Previously, when I connected a clock signal to the drive's clock in, > which was anywhere near 4.2MHz, the fault light would go off. Hmm... interesting. Never played with RL drives at the signal level. Not sure what that would do. > Now, I can't get the light to go off at all, and I'm suspecting the > controller. This cable is the second one I've tried, and both cables > have had all 40pins going straight through. Don't know if that's the right thing or not, but it sounds good. > I also have tried reversing the cable to ensure I had > pin 1 the same on both ends, to no avail (could that have nuked the > interface on either the controller or drive?). No. DEC built their stuff to withstand upside-down and backwards cables (but not modules - a former boss of mine watched an FE install an OMNIBUS board facing the wrong way - the box smoked, the FE sheepishly shrugged and picked up the phone to get the office to send over one of everything). I am fairly certain that I have put the 40-pin cable wrong into either an RLV12 or RLV11. I'm sure I've done it to an RL11 (there's an 8' flat cable to a transition bracket (like the two on the back of the drive) that mounts up on the H960 near the CPU - from there, it's all round RL cables - it's easy to get the flat cable upside down into the transition header). No damage should occur. > Any suggestions or help would be appreciated. Borrow a terminator. Making one is a second option, but without grubbing over the schematics or having one to copy, I wouldn't know what to use for a resistor. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Tue Aug 20 12:53:01 2002 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Gnarly Z80 based desk/computer on eBay Message-ID: About packaging very large "old" computer in desk. Actually I live about 30 miles from Olathe, KS near Lee's Summit, MO. The hospital where I work ends up with all sorts of packaging, we get new x-ray equipment that is packed very well, of course it cost $250,000-500,000. I can scrounge some packaging if somebody needs some. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020820/1a24ebb9/attachment.html From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Aug 20 13:02:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: HP1000F ? References: Message-ID: <3D62847D.5060400@tiac.net> HP's are very interesting, to HP fans anyway! What you have in the picture is ~most~ of a HP 2117F. The floating point accelerator box is not shown. Without the floating point box, you have bascially a HP 2113 with some optional microcode installed. Its binary code compatible with old HP mini computers going back to the HP2116, so you can run HPBASIC and other things like that. The HP operating systems were called RTE, and the most recent version that ran on your box would be RTE-6VM. Its not a 'pretty' operating system however. If all you have is the processor box, your best bet to getting this system doing interesting things is to build a tape reader emulator so you can load paper tape images from a PC. This will allow you to run HP's version of BASIC, or any other code you can get from the HP 2100 archive site. Additionally there is a freeware stand-alone, FORTH-like operating system and programming language for HP minicomputers that will run very nicely on your processor. Lastly there are a number of built-in microcode diagnostics to test your machine and its memory, so when you want to fire the thing up, drop me a note and I'll go over some of the tricks and configuration details. Glen Slick wrote: > Is there a good source of info about HP1000 systems on the net > somewhere? Are they interesting systems? > > Is there someone on the list that knows what this box is and can > provide a quick summary of interesting details about it? I don't have > any more info about this particular system other than the picture below. > > http://home1.gte.net/~gslick/hp1000/hp1000f.jpg > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Aug 20 13:14:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: HP 1000 References: <007501c24806$d8062440$f743cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <3D628747.70504@tiac.net> Wayne, I'd love to get this rack, and would like to see if we can make a deal! I'm having problems with your off-list email address. Would you be interesting in a trade for this rack?? Wayne M. Smith wrote: >There is a huge HP 1000 gov't surplus rack available near >Harrisburg, PA. Here's a pic: > >http://home.earthlink.net/~wmsmith/HP1000.jpg > >Contact me for details if interested. > >-W > > > From sipke at wxs.nl Tue Aug 20 13:22:01 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Gnarly Z80 based desk/computer on eBay References: Message-ID: <004701c24876$68145920$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Looks a bit like the Grundy-Superbrain (UK) systems I once had. Those were from the beginning of the '80 rather than the 71-period. Still got one though but it's now housed in a DEC-case ...... The desk-assembly was a bit to cumbersome.......... The Z80 saw the light around '76 IIRC so '71 is impossible ............. Sipke de Wal ------------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx ------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 10:36 AM Subject: Re: Gnarly Z80 based desk/computer on eBay > On Mon, 19 Aug 2002, Steven M. Jones wrote: > > > Noval 760 desk/computer on eBay. Like something out of Our Man Flynt, > > half the desk tilts up to expose the CRT and cassette drive! Z80 based > > and still working, somewhere in Kansas. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2047467277 > > Wow! It's from 1971! This is a rare find that will change the history of > microcomputers as we know it. > > I don't know, maybe it's because it is my business to know dates and > timelines with regards to computer history, but why do people tend to > think their old computers are older than they actually are? > > I always run into people who say something like "Oh yeah, I have a TRS-80 > from 1974!" > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > From dlormand at aztec.asu.edu Tue Aug 20 13:23:36 2002 From: dlormand at aztec.asu.edu (DAVID L. ORMAND) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Has any interfaced a 360K floppy to a pentium-class PC? Message-ID: <200208201821.LAA18171@aztec2.asu.edu> Sorry I can't help with the original intent of this thread. I've got enough 360Ks and 1.2Ms kicking around that if I find one that doesn't cooperate, I pitch it and grab another. If the Toshiba won't work, and the BIOS supports the format, get another drive. They're easy to find, and inexpensive. >Windoze XP. But my BIOS doesn't recognize it either, >and it has settings for 360K. >I'm using the floppy controller on an old WD RLL >HD controller. I don't recall if I ever had a 360K floppy on the mb's >floppy controller or not. I got "refreshed" at work, and the new peecee (Compaq Evo) won't recognize my 360K. I NEED that 360K to transfer stuff to my TI-99/4A here. The BIOS doesn't appear to handle anything other than 1.44MB drives (A and B; why would you ever want two 1.44MB?). Is this just a stupid Compaq thing, or is it becoming common among BIOS and motherboard producers to drop support for older formats? I didn't think about using a peripheral card with a floppy controller; I've got a few kicking around in my "lab" at home. With my luck, this Evo won't have ISA slots, though. I'll bet there aren't any PCI cards with floppy controllers... But even if you put a controller that can handle 5.25" drives, doesn't the BIOS still need to be set to 360K? If it isn't there, it isn't there, seems to me. Pardon my peecee-ignorance, it is NOT my favorite platform. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 20 13:27:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: MicroAnalyst 2000 In-Reply-To: <000801c24279$052ce6e0$2402a8c0@esoffice> Message-ID: <20020820182707.53615.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- EMI wrote: > Ethan, > > In the archive I found a discussion where you mention a Northwest > Instruments MicroAnalyst 2000. Do you still have it or anything about it. I still have it. > I've got a chassis, two state cards, one timing card and probes; but no > software or PC interface. I have the original chassis with unknown contents, probes, software on a decaying hard disk (only 10MB of the total would format) and the PC interface and the original 5150 PC we got with it when it was new (and $20K!). I don't mind looking things up, but I do not want to part with any of it; it's critical to low-level testing of the 68000-based serial board I used to make (and now have 100% of the remaining stock of). I don't know if I ever had floppies or manuals for it (the company did, 8 years ago, but we had a disgruntled employee wipe one set of disks with a magnet and I'm not sure about replacements. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Aug 20 13:41:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Has any interfaced a 360K floppy to a pentium-class PC? In-Reply-To: <200208201821.LAA18171@aztec2.asu.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, DAVID L. ORMAND wrote: > I got "refreshed" at work, and the new peecee (Compaq Evo) won't > recognize my 360K. I NEED that 360K to transfer stuff to my > TI-99/4A here. The BIOS doesn't appear to handle anything other > than 1.44MB drives (A and B; why would you ever want two 1.44MB?). Maybe for copying disks? But there's no reason to waste anything better than a 286 on that... > Is this just a stupid Compaq thing, or is it becoming common among > BIOS and motherboard producers to drop support for older formats? My nice ASUS dual-athlon board has options for other things, and also works with a 360k drive. I've never seen anything myself that's a PC and doesn't support 360k drives... > I didn't think about using a peripheral card with a floppy > controller; I've got a few kicking around in my "lab" at home. With > my luck, this Evo won't have ISA slots, though. I'll bet there Probably not... it's really hard to find a new computer with ISA slots anymore. > aren't any PCI cards with floppy controllers... But even if you Not that I've seen. Any PC with PCI slots generally has a chipset that has an onboard floppy controller. > put a controller that can handle 5.25" drives, doesn't the BIOS > still need to be set to 360K? If it isn't there, it isn't there, Well, maybe. If the hardware (chipset) doesn't support the lower data rate, you're probably out of luck. However, there are programs that will read and write to disk (like TeleDisk for example) using I/O to the controller. Anyways, if you can't disable the floppy controller in the BIOS, you're not likely to get a replacement to work, anyways. The onboard one will either 'compete' with the ISA card for I/O and interrupts, or the ISA card won't even see the I/O to the port. > seems to me. Pardon my peecee-ignorance, it is NOT my favorite > platform. VERY understandable. Good performance for the price. Bad quality (for stuff that has the good price) and karma. -- Pat From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Aug 20 13:45:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: HP gear Message-ID: I've just come across an HP 9000/300 and 9000/220 in a dumpster over here at University Salvage. I see that the 300 has a 68010 (first one I've owned), but am not sure about the 220. Both have video and 'keyboard' connections. I've found some 300 info using google, but nothing helpful on the 220. Also, are these worth anything? I've got no drives with them, but I did get a bunch of lab I/O boxes (multimeter, and other things) with them. -- Pat From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 20 13:51:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP documentation) In-Reply-To: <20020820035903.49010.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Aug 19, 2 08:59:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1522 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020820/f5b84ca2/attachment.ksh From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Aug 20 14:04:00 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: OT-DIY CPU's In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 19 Aug 2002 06:55:15 BST." <000201c24744$fd713c00$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <200208200751.IAA27125@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Andy Holt" said: > > > Andy Holt wrote: > > > > > The fun then comes with something like the ICT/ICL 1900 series* > > where the > > .... > > > * originally the FP6000 originating in Canada > > > > > > > Know of any information on the web? > > A Google search for ICL.1900 finds quite a lot > the most interesting link is probably > http://www.personal.leeds.ac.uk/~ecldh/ccs/g34ever.html > describing a simulation project able to run George 3 - one of the most > advanced operating systems of the era. The emulator "cheats" somewhat by > emulating the executive interface rather than the raw hardware and so is > unsuitable for the other 1900 series operating systems which used a > different executive. > Interesting. I wasn't directly involved with it, but we had an ICL1904 at work (as did most local authority bodies!) running George 3. Changed to Univac later. > I have several of the hardware manuals and have a theoretical project (ie, > not really started!) to build a 1900 using an FPGA. A problem being that it > seems that none of the other 1900 series operating systems (Operators > executive, George 1,2, and 2+, Minimop, Maximop) seem to have survived. If I run into any of the old gang, I see if they have any tales to tell. The only ICL stuff I have left is a ring binder. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Aug 20 14:14:01 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Various NOS backup tapes available Message-ID: <119.160c58d5.2a93eefe@aol.com> I've a large assortment of QIC and other format types including some syquest carts. If interested, see the list at: www.nothingtodo.org/tapes.htm Still plenty of every type available, although I have no idea what would use a tiny DC100 tape... From zaft at azstarnet.com Tue Aug 20 14:19:00 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon C. Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:44 2005 Subject: Housecleaning -- Free -- Pathworks for Mac docs Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020820121506.02ddeed0@pop.azstarnet.com> Free for cost of shipping (from Tucson, AZ 85719): Pathworks for Macintosh manuals: Perfect bound: Dantz Retrospect Remote (backup software) User's Guide MacTCP Administrator's Guide (2 copies) Client Administrator's Guide for the VMS Server(2 copies) DECnet for Macintosh User's Guide Mail for Macintosh User's Guide Spiral bound: Pathworks for Macintosh -- MacX User's Guide (1.1A) Pathworks for Macintosh -- MacTerminal User's Guide Pathworks for Macintosh -- MacTerminal User's Guide (1.1A) Pathworks for Macintosh -- System Administrator (2 copies) Pathworks for Macintosh -- Network Services User's Guide Pathworks for Macintosh -- Network Services User's Guide (1.1A) First person to respond gets his pick, if there's more than one responder I'll give the second person the 2nd copies. Before you ask, I don't have any software, just these manuals someone gave me. They're going in the Dumpster (R) on Friday if no one takes 'em. Please email to me and not the list or I will undoubtedly miss it. Gordon Gordon Zaft zaft@azstarnet.com From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Tue Aug 20 14:39:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: HP gear In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020820153736.019e576c@pop1.epm.net.co> At 01:44 PM 8/20/02 -0500, you wrote: >I've just come across an HP 9000/300 and 9000/220 in a dumpster over here >at University Salvage. I see that the 300 has a 68010 (first one I've >owned), but am not sure about the 220. Both have video and 'keyboard' >connections. > >I've found some 300 info using google, but nothing helpful on the 220. You probably have an hp9000/310 . I typed a little about them when I auctioned off all of mine: http://nazas.autonoma.edu.co/hp310.html http://nazas.autonoma.edu.co/hp310orange.html You need an HP-HIL keyboard and a monitor such as this for it: http://nazas.autonoma.edu.co/hp35731a.jpg In addition, you need an HPIB HD with the HPBASIC OS. These machines are OK for instrument control, although I find that my viper card (essentially the same system in an ISA card, which you can then use from DOS) is far more useful. The 9000/220 is the little sister of this one (9000/236C): http://nazas.autonoma.edu.co/hp9836c.html The monitors for these are very hard to come by, so a 220 without a monitor is hardly useful. The one above, with monitor, went for about $200 on ebay back in 2000. How much memory does it have? I think that 220 memory could work in early hp300 models (236 memory certainly worked). The 200 series machines are interesting if you have the software. >Also, are these worth anything? I've got no drives with them, but I did >get a bunch of lab I/O boxes (multimeter, and other things) with them. These could be interesting. Can you describe them? -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Aug 20 15:09:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: HP gear In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020820153736.019e576c@pop1.epm.net.co> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020820161105.498ffca2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:37 PM 8/20/02 -0400, you wrote: >At 01:44 PM 8/20/02 -0500, you wrote: >>I've just come across an HP 9000/300 and 9000/220 in a dumpster over here >>at University Salvage. I see that the 300 has a 68010 (first one I've >>owned), but am not sure about the 220. Both have video and 'keyboard' >>connections. >> >>I've found some 300 info using google, but nothing helpful on the 220. > >You probably have an hp9000/310 . I typed a little about them >when I auctioned off all of mine: > >http://nazas.autonoma.edu.co/hp310.html >http://nazas.autonoma.edu.co/hp310orange.html > >You need an HP-HIL keyboard and a monitor such as this for it: >http://nazas.autonoma.edu.co/hp35731a.jpg > >In addition, you need an HPIB HD with the HPBASIC OS. Or Pascal or HPL. Or you can put them all on one drive and boot from any of them. >These machines are OK for instrument control, although I find >that my viper card (essentially the same system in an ISA card, >which you can then use from DOS) is far more useful. > >The 9000/220 is the little sister of this one (9000/236C): I wouldn't call it "little". It uses the same CPU (68000) as the 9816, 9826, 9836. The big difference is that the 220 (aka 9920) is a completely modular system. The keyboard, mouse, disk drives and monitor are all separate. The nice thing about the 220 is that it has sixteen slots so you can add lots of cards to it. ALL of the 9000 200 series machines use the 8MHz 68000 CPU except for the ones that have a U at the end of their model number, such as 9836CU. The U machines use a 12.5 Mhz 68010. IIRC the U variation was only available for the 9826 and 9836. C means that it uses a color monitor, the 9836 was the only one that was avaialble in color. (The 9836C and CUs are very nice machines to work with.) The 220 could use various video cards but all of the ones that I've seen came with the basic monochrome video card. It uses the same monochrome monitor that the HP 86 does and they're easy enough to find. I have two or three 13" ones and one of the small 11" ones. > >http://nazas.autonoma.edu.co/hp9836c.html > >The monitors for these are very hard to come by, so a 220 without >a monitor is hardly useful. The one above, with monitor, went for >about $200 on ebay back in 2000. How much memory does it have? I think >that 220 memory could work in early hp300 models (236 memory >certainly worked). > >The 200 series machines are interesting if you have the software. A LOT of the external HP-IB drives that I find already have 9000 series 200 software on them :-) I'd guess that 40 to 50% of the drives that I find have BASIC on them. Before anyone asks: No, I can't send you a boot floppy disk. The operating system is spread over multiple disks and you have to load most of the disks to get the necessary drivers and then save the OS as one big file that includes the drivers (or else reload all the drivers everytime that you reboot). The combined file is much too large to fit on a floppy. You can boot the machine from a single flopy but you'll have to omit all of the drivers and you won't be able to do anything with the machine in that state. I don't have a set of floppies with the drivers so I can't even provide a SET of floppies to get a machine up and running. The only way to I can provide an OS is to ship a complete external hard drive. > >>Also, are these worth anything? I've got no drives with them, but I did >>get a bunch of lab I/O boxes (multimeter, and other things) with them. I'd be interested in finding out what kind of external boxes you have. Usually the external stuff is HP-IB and it can be used on a lot of different machines. Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 20 15:21:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: RL02 woes In-Reply-To: <20020820175029.80205.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Aug 20, 2 10:50:29 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2909 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020820/95592c32/attachment.ksh From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Aug 20 15:43:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: RL02 woes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > The drive is set to ID 3, because I don't have a '0' Ready light cover. > > > > Also never done that. Don't remember if it works or not. We were > > always short of 0s and 1s (but seemed to always have a box of 2s and > > 3s ;-) > > The drive will work fine if it has a '3' lamp cover and is the only drive > connected to the controller. But you must have a 'ready' lamp cover > fitted -- don't assume that if none is installed then the drive will > default to 3. In fact, it won't work at all -- there's an extra contact > in the ready lamp holder/select switch that detects that _a_ cover is > installed. Yes, it has the '3' ready lamp cover. I also have a 1 or 2 I think, but definately not a '0'. > The RK06/RK07 drives use identical covers, but they are numbered from 0 > to 7 (you can have up to 8 such drives on a single controller). These > covers will work in RLs. The drive number is taken mod 4 in this case, so > that cover 4 -> drive 0, cover 5 -> drive 1, etc I'll remember that if I come across any. > > > > > Also, I don't have a terminator to use. > > > > Major problem. > > > > Agreed. I've found someone who will loan me a terminator (thanks Tom!), so once I get that I can further evaluate the situation. > > > Previously, when I connected a clock signal to the drive's clock in, > > > which was anywhere near 4.2MHz, the fault light would go off. > > > > Hmm... interesting. Never played with RL drives at the signal level. > > Not sure what that would do. > > One cause of 'Fault' is if the clock signal from the controller is > missing. It's around 4.2MHz. But IIRC, if there's no terminator on the > drive bus then the drive won't properly detect the clock (or any other > signals from the controller) so you will get this error. > > Incidentally, the clock frequency is critical for running the drive (it > determines the spindle speed amongst other things), but for testing the > fault circuit it's not particularly critical. That's what I thought... now if I run it at a differenct frequency, can I get a different data rate out of it? I've thought about creating a controller that is ISA bus or something, but needed the whole setup to do any reverse-engineering, of course. Also, I've noticed it's hard to find 8.4 or 4.2MHz (or is it 8.2 and 4.1MHz?) oscillators. > IIRC, the DEC cable doesn't connect all the pins (some are just not used) > -- the RK06/RK07 uses a similar-looking cable with more pins wired. > > One of the corner pins is deliberately not bussed between the drives. > It's a 5V output from the drive's PSU and is used to power the > terminator. Needless to say, connecting 2 power supplies together is > normally a bad idea. IIRC, though, it's a no-connect on the controller, > so it shouldn't matter if you connect this pin on single-drive system. On my PDF version of the RL Pocket Guide, it says that all the non-signal pins are wired to ground... Hmm. There's a copy of it here: http://www.dadaboom.com/pdp11/rlPocketGuide.pdf I'll go home and check this with a multimeter tonight. > > > > > I also have tried reversing the cable to ensure I had > > > pin 1 the same on both ends, to no avail (could that have nuked the > > > interface on either the controller or drive?). > > > > No. DEC built their stuff to withstand upside-down and backwards > > cables (but not modules - a former boss of mine watched an FE > > I will confirm that the RL's don't mind if you get the cable in > upside-down. I've done it (using official DEC cables, etc) and never > damaged anything. Good. I just wanted to make sure I didn't make a big 'boo-boo'. -- Pat From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Aug 20 16:00:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Has any interfaced a 360K floppy to a pentium-class PC? In-Reply-To: <200208201821.LAA18171@aztec2.asu.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020820170045.13574e96@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:21 AM 8/20/02 -0700, you wrote: > > >I didn't think about using a peripheral card with a floppy >controller; I've got a few kicking around in my "lab" at home. With >my luck, this Evo won't have ISA slots, though. I'll bet there >aren't any PCI cards with floppy controllers... But even if you >put a controller that can handle 5.25" drives, doesn't the BIOS >still need to be set to 360K? Not if you get a card that has it's own BIOS. Most (all?) of those cards will have jumpers to set the drive type. A fair number of cards were made like that. They were for use where you wanted to a 2nd drive controller to a system or for use in the original PC and PC/XT where there were no CMOS settings. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Aug 20 16:08:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: Here's something that I haven't heard of before .... Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020820170951.1357e884@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> IMSAI SYSTEM 8048 Control Computer. Anyone know anything about these? It's on E-bay at Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 20 16:14:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: RL02 woes In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Finnegan" at Aug 20, 2 03:43:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2374 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020820/0372cf21/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Aug 20 16:37:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: COSMAC VIP documentation (was Re: Need help finding old IBM PC game) In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Re: COSMAC VIP documentation (was Re: Need help finding old IBM PC game)" (Aug 19, 20:45) References: <20020820034552.59846.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10208202202.ZM10892@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Aug 19, 20:45, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Mon, 19 Aug 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > > One of my ultra-low priority projects is to locate the tape, slurp > > > it into a modern machine and cut MP3s of the programs and see if I > > > can use my Rio PMP300 (or portable CDDA/MP3 player) as a load device. > > > > MP3 won't work. I've tried it. Also, I've been told it won't by people > > who know better than me that it is too lossy. > > Have you tried monsterously large bitrates? I have no personal > experience with it, but I can see your point about lossiness. > I'm just curious if it's possible no matter what the file size. > > > Use a straight WAV file recording instead. > > My fallback is 44100 KHz audio files and a portable CD player. I found a couple of MP3 files for my Exidy Sorcerer on the web, and they loaded fine at 1200 baud. I suppose the success rate depends on the quality of design of the cassette interface, and the bit rate in the MP3. mpg123 tells me that Galaxians.mp3 is MPEG 2.0 layer III, 16 kbit/s, 22050 Hz mono, it's 520kB long, and "plays" for 1 min 25 secs, including the header. I've heard of other people using MP3 files for BBC micros at 1200 baud too. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Aug 20 16:37:21 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: TTY spares request In-Reply-To: "Bill Sudbrink" "RE: TTY spares request" (Aug 19, 22:19) References: Message-ID: <10208202156.ZM10878@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Aug 19, 22:19, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > Dan Cohoe and I both made the rounds of the TTY spares on the balcony > > of the Armory in NJ (thanks again, William!) I do not recall seeing > > anything of that nature amidst the bits. Spare keytops, plattens, > > chad bins, springs and more, but no keyboard butterflies. > > Oh wow! There are chad bins there? I need one for my 33. Is anyone > going back that way? I need one too -- is anyone willing to mail one to the UK for me? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From zaft at azstarnet.com Tue Aug 20 17:17:00 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon C. Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: Housecleaning -- Symantec Think C 4.0 for Mac Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020820151305.02de7c58@pop.azstarnet.com> Free for cost of shipping to 1st respondent. Says its for Mac Plus, SE, SE/30, II, IIx, IIcx. Requires 1 MB RAM, System 6.x. Circa 1989. Please email me, not the list! GZ Gordon Zaft zaft@azstarnet.com From dogas at bellsouth.net Tue Aug 20 17:23:01 2002 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: Here's something that I haven't heard of before .... References: <3.0.6.16.20020820170951.1357e884@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <04d601c24897$56db2820$9edb3fd0@DOMAIN> > IMSAI SYSTEM 8048 Control Computer. Anyone know anything about these? It's on E-bay at Yep, I have one in a different case. I thought you checked it out when you where here, Joe... From NAVIGATE87 at aol.com Tue Aug 20 17:34:00 2002 From: NAVIGATE87 at aol.com (NAVIGATE87@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: Fluke Stuff Message-ID: <4b.21f2c629.2a941dd4@aol.com> Joe, I use some of them, I had a all or nothing deal so I got them all. The tapes are 18.00 each min order 10. The pod I am looking for is a Z8000 my error. I have a 9100 mainframe also, but It seems to be so software dependent that I haven't figured how to load and save my programs. I need to figure how to hook the 9010 and/or the 9100 to a pc so I can key in my very long programs and save them, or at least load from a PC. I used to use the 9010 but the company policy was not to allow techs to do anything beyond insert tape and run the test. Now I work for a new company and I have to figure how to do all this other stuff oh fun of wearing many hats. Thanks, Don From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 20 17:49:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: Here's something that I haven't heard of before .... In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020820170951.1357e884@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Joe wrote: > IMSAI SYSTEM 8048 Control Computer. Anyone know anything about these? > It's on E-bay at > I've seen one in person (it was controlling the IMSAI Dollhouse at VCF 2.0): http://www.vintage.org/exhibit99.html (scroll down to 11th picture on the left) They are fairly rare. Other than Allison Parent, I know of no one else who has one. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 20 17:51:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: COSMAC VIP documentation (was Re: Need help finding old IBM PC game) In-Reply-To: <10208202202.ZM10892@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > I found a couple of MP3 files for my Exidy Sorcerer on the web, and they > loaded fine at 1200 baud. I suppose the success rate depends on the > quality of design of the cassette interface, and the bit rate in the MP3. I tried making an MP3 copy of Apple-1 cassette BASIC but it wouldn't load. I was told afterwards that MP3 was too lossy to work. Your mileage varied apparently. > mpg123 tells me that Galaxians.mp3 is MPEG 2.0 layer III, 16 kbit/s, 22050 > Hz mono, it's 520kB long, and "plays" for 1 min 25 secs, including the > header. Isn't that just a linear recording? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 20 17:52:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: Here's something that I haven't heard of before .... In-Reply-To: <04d601c24897$56db2820$9edb3fd0@DOMAIN> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Mike wrote: > > IMSAI SYSTEM 8048 Control Computer. Anyone know anything about these? > It's on E-bay at > > > Yep, I have one in a different case. I thought you checked it out when you > where here, Joe... > > >From an ad in Kilobaud issue #5 pg 59: > > > Complete Control. > > Introducting the IMSAI 8048 Single Board Control Computer. By the way, the IMSAI Dollhouse I mentioned previously was used to demo the IMSAI 8048 at trade shows and the like. Todd Fischer kept it one IMSAI went under. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From blstuart at bellsouth.net Tue Aug 20 18:19:00 2002 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: RL02 woes In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:50:29 -0700 (PDT) . <20020820175029.80205.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: In message <20020820175029.80205.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com>, Ethan Dicks wr ites: > >--- Patrick Finnegan wrote: >> The drive is set to ID 3, because I don't have a '0' Ready light cover. > >Also never done that. Don't remember if it works or not. We were >always short of 0s and 1s (but seemed to always have a box of 2s and >3s ;-) I don't remember what I started with, but proper application of a file resulted in the 0 I have on my RL01. I can't even look at what it was becaue I also filed of the number and stuck on a replacement number. Brian L. Stuart From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Aug 20 18:47:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: COSMAC VIP documentation (was Re: Need help finding old IBM PC game) In-Reply-To: Sellam Ismail "Re: COSMAC VIP documentation (was Re: Need help finding old IBM PC game)" (Aug 20, 7:50) References: Message-ID: <10208210048.ZM11074@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Aug 20, 7:50, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > mpg123 tells me that Galaxians.mp3 is MPEG 2.0 layer III, 16 kbit/s, 22050 > > Hz mono, it's 520kB long, and "plays" for 1 min 25 secs, including the > > header. > > Isn't that just a linear recording? I don't think so, an equivalent duration WAV (uncompressed) or AIFF file would be 10-15MB (maybe 6-8MB for mono). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Tue Aug 20 20:06:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: HP gear In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020820161105.498ffca2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.2.32.20020820153736.019e576c@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020820210442.019e8b28@pop1.epm.net.co> At 04:11 PM 8/20/02, you wrote: >>The 9000/220 is the little sister of this one (9000/236C): > I wouldn't call it "little". It uses the same CPU (68000) as the 9816, >9826, 9836. The big difference is that the 220 (aka 9920) is a completely >modular system. The keyboard, mouse, disk drives and monitor are all separate. >The nice thing about the 220 is that it has sixteen slots so you can add lots >of cards to it. I stand corrected. I thought that the 220 was a smaller, earlier compact system. Thus my comments about the monitors being hard to find (though such comments certainly apply to the 9836C). >>The 200 series machines are interesting if you have the software. > > A LOT of the external HP-IB drives that I find already have 9000 series 200 software on them :-) I'd guess that 40 to 50% of the drives that I find have BASIC on them. I never did find 200-specific software, but then I think nobody can compete with Joe as far as HP stuff is concerned :-) . -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Aug 20 20:09:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: Great finds at Auction Today and at Thrift Message-ID: <013801c248af$5b303d80$84000240@oemcomputer> It was a great day at the auction, I was able to get these items: 1. 3-Nextstation Color's was is missing the harddrive need to get a sound box from the warehouse to test them. 2. 1-Nextstation Turbo powers up but no OS on it. 3. One mono display and one 17' color display, cable for both was in the lot. 4. One Next laser printer. 5. IBM 7208-001 8mm 2.3GB external tape unit ($2.50). 6. Several IBM terminals will have get the numbers next time I'm down to the warehouse. 7. Several computers from different mfg. have not tested any yet. Best find of the day was at a thrift (I only had time to stop at 2 of them) it was a Atari 2-player table console titled Missile Command. It has a coin slot for 50 cent to play the game. You sit at this unit and put your hands into the controller pocket that has a big yellow trackball and three fire buttons for each player. They did not have the key to get into the unit and I have not plugged it in yet to test. It's in great shape and is model number 23601. I checked on google and could not find any information on the unit. Anyone know where I can get spec's on this unit and what it cost new? From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Aug 20 20:27:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: Z8000 was Re: Olivetti M20 boot prom dump? Message-ID: <200208210126.SAA15849@clulw009.amd.com> Chris Did you see the stuff at: http://www.cpm.z80.de/source.html Dwight From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Aug 20 20:30:01 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: Great finds at Auction Today and at Thrift In-Reply-To: <013801c248af$5b303d80$84000240@oemcomputer> References: <013801c248af$5b303d80$84000240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: >Best find of the day was at a thrift (I only had time to stop at 2 of them) >it was a Atari 2-player table console titled Missile Command. It has a coin >slot for 50 cent to play the game. You sit at this unit and put your hands >into the controller pocket that has a big yellow trackball and three fire >buttons for each player. They did not have the key to get into the unit and >I have not plugged it in yet to test. It's in great shape and is model >number 23601. I checked on google and could not find any information on the >unit. Anyone know where I can get spec's on this unit and what it cost new? Truly cool...a Missile Command cocktail unit. Mostly it's stuff like PacMan that you see in that format. Here are a couple of pictures of one: http://www.nanonano.co.uk/arcade/miscom.htm http://www.classicarcadeonline.com/missilecommandcocktail.html Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Aug 20 20:40:00 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: Anyone remember this PET 2001 game? In-Reply-To: <20020819141731.11247.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020820203017.0265c538@pc> At 07:17 AM 8/19/2002 -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: >Sounds as weird as "Space Spuds" - the demo game with the Amiga >"X-Specs 3D" - LCD shutter glasses that ran off the second game/mouse >port - you shot at potatoes and french fries, in 3D. You lost >when you gained too much weight. That program and those glasses are in my collection, I think. - John From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Aug 20 21:03:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: Z8000 was Re: Olivetti M20 boot prom dump? Message-ID: <200208210202.TAA15857@clulw009.amd.com> Oops, meant to send to Chris but I guess others might be interested. Dwight >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" > >Chris > Did you see the stuff at: > >http://www.cpm.z80.de/source.html > >Dwight > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Aug 20 21:35:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: Thanks Jeff was Re: Great finds at Auction Today and at Thrift References: <013801c248af$5b303d80$84000240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <017401c248bb$40510150$84000240@oemcomputer> Thanks Jeff I found tons of information and manuals (they cost $20 each) for the unit once I used the correct name (cocktail) for my google search. My cost $15.51 plus tax looks even better now that I found they sol for $1945 back in 1980. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 8:29 PM Subject: Re: Great finds at Auction Today and at Thrift > >Best find of the day was at a thrift (I only had time to stop at 2 of them) > >it was a Atari 2-player table console titled Missile Command. It has a coin > >slot for 50 cent to play the game. You sit at this unit and put your hands > >into the controller pocket that has a big yellow trackball and three fire > >buttons for each player. They did not have the key to get into the unit and > >I have not plugged it in yet to test. It's in great shape and is model > >number 23601. I checked on google and could not find any information on the > >unit. Anyone know where I can get spec's on this unit and what it cost new? > > Truly cool...a Missile Command cocktail unit. Mostly it's > stuff like PacMan that you see in that format. Here are a couple of > pictures of one: > > http://www.nanonano.co.uk/arcade/miscom.htm > http://www.classicarcadeonline.com/missilecommandcocktail.html > > Jeff > -- > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.cchaven.com > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 20 21:56:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP documentation) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020821025533.9799.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > I may have found the tape... I would play with it tonight, but the felt > pad has fallen off the metal leaf spring behind the tape, and the first > few inches got wrinkled in my player when I tried to listen to it. > > If you could repair the felt pad, would you be able to make any use of > the data on the tape? I am not certain if the VIP uses a header or not, but given how simple the monitor is, and the fact that unlike, say, the PET, there is no file name (and no redundant copy), I would expect that the first file on the tape is completely hosed. > I have repaired cassette pressure pads in the past. If you can find > another cassette of the same brand with a good pad then you can often > open up the cassette housing (all decent compact cassettes are assembled > with screws!) and swap over the leaf spring/pad assembly. If it had screws, I'd have done that already. I used to go through a lot of tapes and I was in grade school/high-school when I was using them, so many of my tapes are high quality, but most are not. I did use the expensive Memorex screw-type for really important stuff. I also tended to not write just to the front of the tape (and wear it out). With this exception of this one VIP tape and a few DEC TA60s, all of my cassettes are Commodore. I'd estimate 3% C-64, 1% VIC-20, and the rest, 40-col BASIC 2 PET. I've already slurped up all the ones that are not in "Rabbit" format. As soon as I decide how to restore my original 32K PET (intermittent keyboard problems - it's already the second PCB. I have at least one NOS keyboard sans cable; the question is do I move the cable or build a new one from scratch), I will be slurping up the handful of Rabbit tapes. I have the Rabbit software in ROM and on standard C= cassette. > > Worst case, I'll have to type stuff in, then "save" through a PeeCee > > sound card. I am a little concerned about mains noise, so I'm > > Don't you still have a cassette (or other tape) recorder? Can't you still > get blank tapes? I would want to save it in as many ways possible! I wasn't figuring on relying on stretchable analog technology. I _could_ cut a new tape, but I hadn't planned on it. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 20 22:31:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: COSMAC VIP documentation (was Re: Need help finding old IBM PC game) In-Reply-To: <10208210048.ZM11074@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Aug 20, 7:50, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > > mpg123 tells me that Galaxians.mp3 is MPEG 2.0 layer III, 16 kbit/s, > 22050 > > > Hz mono, it's 520kB long, and "plays" for 1 min 25 secs, including the > > > header. > > > > Isn't that just a linear recording? > > I don't think so, an equivalent duration WAV (uncompressed) or AIFF file > would be 10-15MB (maybe 6-8MB for mono). That doesn't sound right at all. Typical MP3 recordings at around 128Kbps end up at around 1MB per minute. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 20 22:32:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: Great finds at Auction Today and at Thrift In-Reply-To: <013801c248af$5b303d80$84000240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, John wrote: > Best find of the day was at a thrift (I only had time to stop at 2 of > them) it was a Atari 2-player table console titled Missile Command. It > has a coin slot for 50 cent to play the game. You sit at this unit and > put your hands into the controller pocket that has a big yellow > trackball and three fire buttons for each player. They did not have the > key to get into the unit and I have not plugged it in yet to test. It's > in great shape and is model number 23601. I checked on google and could > not find any information on the unit. Anyone know where I can get spec's > on this unit and what it cost new? http://www.klov.com Nice score. You basically have a tabletop Missile Command. How much did it cost? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Aug 20 23:03:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:45 2005 Subject: Cost was Re: Great finds at Auction Today and at Thrift References: Message-ID: <019701c248c7$a02646b0$84000240@oemcomputer> Sellam asked cost. It was $15.51 plus tax for a total of $16.79 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 2:31 PM Subject: Re: Great finds at Auction Today and at Thrift > On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, John wrote: > > > Best find of the day was at a thrift (I only had time to stop at 2 of > > them) it was a Atari 2-player table console titled Missile Command. It > > has a coin slot for 50 cent to play the game. You sit at this unit and > > put your hands into the controller pocket that has a big yellow > > trackball and three fire buttons for each player. They did not have the > > key to get into the unit and I have not plugged it in yet to test. It's > > in great shape and is model number 23601. I checked on google and could > > not find any information on the unit. Anyone know where I can get spec's > > on this unit and what it cost new? > > http://www.klov.com > > Nice score. You basically have a tabletop Missile Command. How much did > it cost? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From donm at cts.com Wed Aug 21 00:13:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: PowerUser external SCSI HD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Today I picked up the subject item at a thrift. It seems to be quite similar to the Iomega Jaz V1000S except that it is a single platter thing instead of having four heads as the Jaz does. Aside from the PU name and a serial number it offers nothing else to help identitfy it further. Can anyone shed any further light on this critter? - don From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Aug 21 01:39:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: PowerUser external SCSI HD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > Today I picked up the subject item at a thrift. It seems to be quite > similar to the Iomega Jaz V1000S except that it is a single platter > thing instead of having four heads as the Jaz does. Aside from the PU > name and a serial number it offers nothing else to help identitfy it > further. > > Can anyone shed any further light on this critter? Its probably an early SyQuest drive of some sort. Some company (I forget who) used to sell generic external SCSI cases with drives installed with the name 'PowerUser' on the case. Usually that name badge was little more than a foil sticker. Those external drives were marketed mostly to Mac users. -Toth From mythtech at mac.com Wed Aug 21 01:41:21 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: PowerUser external SCSI HD Message-ID: >Today I picked up the subject item at a thrift. It seems to be quite >similar to the Iomega Jaz V1000S except that it is a single platter >thing instead of having four heads as the Jaz does. Aside from the PU >name and a serial number it offers nothing else to help identitfy it >further. > >Can anyone shed any further light on this critter? PowerUser was the house brand name used by PC/Mac Warehouse. I know they made a line of assorted equipment for the Mac, so I assume they also made stuff for the PC. Most everything was just repackaged items made by others. Based on the name, I would figure it to be a standard external SCSI hard drive. A fairly standard item for the Mac, and quite commonly found in the early Mac days. I might even have a PowerUser SCSI drive kicking around some where (not sure, I had a number of brands, I wasn't very brand loyal, so when I needed a drive, I bought the cheapest... after I got burned on the Jasmine/Rodime fiasco, I stopped worrying about who had the best rated, and just bought on price and price alone) -chris From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Aug 21 02:02:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: COSMAC VIP documentation (was Re: Need help finding old IBM PC game) In-Reply-To: Sellam Ismail "Re: COSMAC VIP documentation (was Re: Need help finding old IBM PC game)" (Aug 20, 12:30) References: Message-ID: <10208210801.ZM11264@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Aug 20, 12:30, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > I don't think so, an equivalent duration WAV (uncompressed) or AIFF file > > would be 10-15MB (maybe 6-8MB for mono). > > That doesn't sound right at all. Typical MP3 recordings at around > 128Kbps end up at around 1MB per minute. Which is why people use MP3s, which are compressed, instead of of uncompressed WAV (which is almost exactly the same as AIFF) :-) If you make an ordinary audio CD (ie to use in a CD player not an MP3 payer) you end up with roughly 10MB/min, or a little over 600MB/hour. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Aug 21 02:31:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: PowerUser external SCSI HD References: Message-ID: <000f01c248e4$6c638500$0100000a@deepspacenine> "Chris" said: > after I got burned on the > Jasmine/Rodime fiasco Don't think I ever heard about that - might be before my time. Care to elaborate? Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From zaft at azstarnet.com Wed Aug 21 02:38:00 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon C. Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: VME chassis on EPay Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020821003547.02ae76f8@pop.azstarnet.com> Forgive the self-boosterism, but I'm selling this VMEbus chassis on EBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2047264888&rd=1 Gordon Zaft zaft@azstarnet.com From hansp at aconit.org Wed Aug 21 02:46:01 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: HP Apollo Series 700 model 705 Message-ID: <3D6344F5.4060607@aconit.org> I have been given a couple of these (thanks Paul) and would like to know more about them. These were obviously used as network stations, neither has a hard disk and from the looks of the inside hard disks were never installed. Both power on and blink the indicator lights on the front but I get nothing on the connected multisynch monitor - is this normal? Any pointer to technical info would be welcome, the HP doc archive does not mention this model. Regards, -- hbp From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Aug 21 08:00:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: Here's something that I haven't heard of before .... In-Reply-To: <04d601c24897$56db2820$9edb3fd0@DOMAIN> References: <3.0.6.16.20020820170951.1357e884@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020821084016.43ef83f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:17 PM 8/20/02 -0400, Mike wrote: > > >> IMSAI SYSTEM 8048 Control Computer. Anyone know anything about these? >It's on E-bay at > > >Yep, I have one in a different case. I thought you checked it out when you >where here, Joe... I may have but you've got so many interesting 'puters that it's hard to keep track of them all! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Aug 21 08:02:38 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: HP gear In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020820210442.019e8b28@pop1.epm.net.co> References: <3.0.6.16.20020820161105.498ffca2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.2.32.20020820153736.019e576c@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020821084717.43efeb14@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:04 PM 8/20/02 -0400, Carlos wrote: >I never did find 200-specific software, but then I think nobody can >compete with Joe as far as HP stuff is concerned :-) . :-) How is the used computer market down there in Columbia? Joe From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Wed Aug 21 08:16:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: HP Apollo Series 700 model 705 In-Reply-To: <3D6344F5.4060607@aconit.org> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020821091426.013e77ec@pop1.epm.net.co> At 09:44 AM 8/21/02 +0200, you wrote: >These were obviously used as network stations, neither has a hard disk >and from the looks of the inside hard disks were never installed. The 705 has a PA-7000 cpu clocked at 33MHz. You can run HPUX 8.07-9.07 through 10.01-10.20 in it. There were several versions of the 705 depending on the graphics/monitor: A2289A ?Model 705 Grayscale DeskTop 2.0 8.07-9.07 .10.01-10.20 . A2648A ?Model 705 Color 1024,16-inch DeskTop 2.0 8.07-9.07 .10.01-10.20 . A2648B ?Model 705 Color 1024,16-inch DeskTop 2.0 8.07-9.07 .10.01-10.20 . A2649A ?Model 705 Color 1280,19-inch DeskTop 2.0 8.07-9.07 .10.01-10.20 . A2649B ?Model 705 Color 1280,19-inch DeskTop 2.0 8.07-9.07 .10.01-10.20 . A2649C ?Model 705 Color 1280,19-inch DeskTop 2.0 8.07-9.07 .10.01-10.20 . or it could be an upgrade: A2647A ?Model 705 to 710 Upgrade Parts 1.0 8.07-9.07 .10.01-10.20 . Compatible memory: A2216A 8 Mbyte RAM pair (2,4MB@)Models 705,710 Excludi g Model 710 e . A2217A 16 Mbyte RAM pair (2,8MB@)Models 705,710 Excludi g Model 710 e . A2218A 32 Mbyte RAM pair (2,16MB@)Models 705,710 Excludi g Model 710 e . >Both power on and blink the indicator lights on the front but I get >nothing on the connected multisynch monitor - is this normal? First check if your model is a grayscale or color one; then, make sure that your monitor is set to sync on green. Even though it has a D sub 15 connector, I don't think that it provides separate sync signals. >Any pointer to technical info would be welcome, the HP doc archive does >not mention this model. It is mentioned in the 15MB+ hardware compatibility guide; search for it in the HP site. The file name is hcl.pdf . Carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Wed Aug 21 08:32:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: HP gear In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020821084717.43efeb14@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.2.32.20020820210442.019e8b28@pop1.epm.net.co> <3.0.6.16.20020820161105.498ffca2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.2.32.20020820153736.019e576c@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020821093029.006942d0@pop1.epm.net.co> At 08:47 AM 8/21/02, you wrote: > :-) How is the used computer market down there in Columbia? > > Joe Nil (sigh!). Darn! When I was in the U.S., even though I was in centrally isolated Ithaca NY, I could find a few systems here and there. But I did not have a place big enough to keep most of them. Since I'm down here (1.7 years now) I have only found a few old macs, a Datapoint system, a few Ngen(?) systems and a Powerserver 320H (without the ethernet riser board) that I haven't had the time to hack the password in. All need repairs. But now I have a large basement :-( . So, essentially I still have exactly what I brought with me. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Aug 21 11:34:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: Thanks Jeff was Re: Great finds at Auction Today and at Thrift Message-ID: <200208211633.JAA16282@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Cocktails are fun. One can often convince the significant other that these are really just tables and should be part of the household furniture. Dwight >From: John > >Thanks Jeff I found tons of information and manuals (they cost $20 each) for >the unit once I used the correct name (cocktail) for my google search. My >cost $15.51 plus tax looks even better now that I found they sol for $1945 >back in 1980. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jeff Hellige" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 8:29 PM >Subject: Re: Great finds at Auction Today and at Thrift > > >> >Best find of the day was at a thrift (I only had time to stop at 2 of >them) >> >it was a Atari 2-player table console titled Missile Command. It has a >coin >> >slot for 50 cent to play the game. You sit at this unit and put your >hands >> >into the controller pocket that has a big yellow trackball and three fire >> >buttons for each player. They did not have the key to get into the unit >and >> >I have not plugged it in yet to test. It's in great shape and is model >> >number 23601. I checked on google and could not find any information on >the >> >unit. Anyone know where I can get spec's on this unit and what it cost >new? >> >> Truly cool...a Missile Command cocktail unit. Mostly it's >> stuff like PacMan that you see in that format. Here are a couple of >> pictures of one: >> >> http://www.nanonano.co.uk/arcade/miscom.htm >> http://www.classicarcadeonline.com/missilecommandcocktail.html >> >> Jeff >> -- >> Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File >> http://www.cchaven.com >> http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 >> >> > > From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 21 13:01:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: PowerUser external SCSI HD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > Today I picked up the subject item at a thrift. It seems to be quite > similar to the Iomega Jaz V1000S except that it is a single platter > thing instead of having four heads as the Jaz does. Aside from the PU > name and a serial number it offers nothing else to help identitfy it > further. It's probably a re-badged SyQuest drive that can do 44 and 88 MB carthridges. I have a lot of media for these so let me know if you want a couple to play around with it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Wed Aug 21 13:03:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: Scans of HP3421 quick reference available Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020821140212.014b3b38@pop1.epm.net.co> I have finally gotten around to scanning pages 79-97 of the HP3421 user's guide. These pages contain the compact programming reference guide. They are not pretty (darn HP (Un)Intelligent scanning software!), but the info should be useful. They can be downloaded at http://nazas.autonoma.edu.co/hp3421/ Regards, carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From mythtech at mac.com Wed Aug 21 13:25:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: PowerUser external SCSI HD Message-ID: >> after I got burned on the >> Jasmine/Rodime fiasco >Don't think I ever heard about that - might be before my time. Care to >elaborate? Once upon a time, back in the early Mac days... there was a drive manufacturer called Jasmine. They made about the best damn drives money could buy. Every time there was a review of drives, Jasmine came out on top. And their prices were good as well. Well, Jasmine, like most external drive makers, didn't actually made the drives inside their boxes, they bought from other makers, stuck them in pretty cases, wrote formatting/partitioning software, and sold them under their name. Jasmine bought internals from a number of companies, Quantum, Segate, Rodime, and others. Well, one day, Rodime shipped Jasmine an entire lot of defective drives (and not a small lot, like thousands and thousands of them). Jasmine, sold these off, after packing them up, and doing their basic burn in. But the defects wouldn't show up until the drives had been run for some time... then Kapow... drive would die. Of course, this would happen about 60 days into good use, right before the 90 day warrenty expired. Suddenly Jasmine found themselves with many an angry customer, wanting a warrenty repair on their drive. More than they could afford to handle. So they tried to push the problem off on Rodime (after all, it was their drive that died), but Rodime denied responsibility, saying Jasmine bought the drives, and it was their problem to test them, and make sure they were good. So Jasmine naturally folded under the massive costs of warrenty repair, leaving everyone (myself included) with a dead drive, and no way to get it fixed. Two good things came of this... 1: Rodime folded not long after because of similar problems (from what I understand at least, I know they closed, and I know they had a massive run of drives they sold to the public go out while under warrenty). So they pretty much got their just dues. 2: A few of the Jasmine techs got together and formed a company, that was one of the first in a soon to grow industry of Data Recovery services of hard drives. They formed the company "Drive Savers" which advertises to this day in the back of most Mac magazines. So after that, I decided that it wasn't worth spending extra money on the best reviewed drive, because even the best reviewed could die and cost you big bucks. I paid $400 on an 80 MB external drive, and was able to use it for about 45 days before it died the first time. I was able to get it going again, and in the end, I got about 8 or 9 months of use of it, before I got sick of it crashing and taking all my data with it. I then replaced the inner drive with a 100 MB Quantum that I paid another $400 for, and used that for a few years, until I replaced it with a 1 gig Quantum (for another $400). Today the lower half of my Jasmine drive case, with its power supply and SCSI connectors, powers my SCSI CD burner that sits loose on top after the power brick for its case died. (and the final 1 g Quantum drive is dead too, stopped spinning up, from the sounds of it, I think it suffered from "sticktion" after having run non stop for a few years, and then being shut off and stored for a few more, the 100 MB Quantum I still have somewhere, and the 80 MB Rodime/Jasmine that was the original, made a very nice wind chime). -chris From celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk Wed Aug 21 13:46:00 2002 From: celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: HP Apollo Series 700 model 705 References: <3D6344F5.4060607@aconit.org> Message-ID: <3D63E024.578EF210@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> Hans B Pufal wrote: > > I have been given a couple of these (thanks Paul) and would like to > know more about them. > > Both power on and blink the indicator lights on the front but I get > nothing on the connected multisynch monitor - is this normal? I had only powered up one of them, but it certainly produced a display on my iiyama Vision Master Pro 17 with a standard PC video cable. Unfortunately, I didn't record the frequencies it produced. The machine runs POST and then attempts to boot from one of the Ethernet connectors. - Paul From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 21 14:15:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: Paging Paul Braun Message-ID: Paul Braun, my e-mail to you keeps bouncing. Contact me once you fix whatever ails your mail server. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk Wed Aug 21 14:51:00 2002 From: celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: Troubles copying RT-11 tapes on VT103 (continued) Message-ID: <3D63EF68.AA2D0918@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> I passed along Megan's suggested COPY command to the company who are trying to copy their one and only tape on a VT103. I have just received the following response. Any further suggestions would be appreciated. Out of curiousity, I asked what the machine was and whether they had any pictures. They have kindly passed along a scan of the original brochure, which I'll put online shortly. The VT103 is controlling a CNC milling machine for cams. It was made by a Swiss company called Macor SA, back in 1983. I'm not surprised they're worried about the longevity of the tape! --quote-- As for the copying of the tape no success as of yet, I tried the following: i) COPY/SYS DDO: DD1: I tried this twice the first time the following messages appeared :- FILES COPIED: ?MON-F-SWAP ERROR I then tried to boot the system using using the new copy and it said: ?BOOT-F-NO BOOT ON VOLUME The second time I tried the message was: PIP-F-DIRECTORY INPUT ERROR DD0: ii) COPY/BOOT RT11FB.SYS DD1: This caused the following: ?DUP-F-OUTPUT ERROR DD1: I don't know if this will mean anything to you but the following messages are what is shown on the screen when the system is booting up, I thought it might shed some light on the situation: RT-11FB V04.00 .SET TT: SCOPE .SET TT: WIDTH=120 .SET USR NOSWAP .RUN ID The last command loads up the program that's all I know, because on the tape there are two programs ID and IDT when we want to swap between them we press CTRL C then the message ?MON-F-SWAP ERROR appears and then we enter RUN ID or RUN IDT One thought I did have, do I need to format or erase the blank tape before copying on to it? --end quote-- - Paul From mross666 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 21 14:56:08 2002 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: IBM 3295 Plazma Display Message-ID: From: "Will Jennings" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: IBM 3295 Plazma Display Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 18:07:05 -0600 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org >To the best of my knowledge, 3290s are meant to talk to 3274s.. But I > >think it depends on the exact model... I hope mine are for 3274s, I wanna > >use 'em on the 4381 3174 is just a considerably updated 3274 with more possibilities in the software. They're functionally identical, for the most part. As, so you're the brave one with the 4381 in the basement? Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From mbg at TheWorld.com Wed Aug 21 15:24:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: Documentation for DEC T-11 evaluation board? References: <200208191819.g7JIJ0p04644@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <200208212024.QAA72634226@shell.TheWorld.com> >Did ya see that DEC DCT-11FM Single Board Vintage Computer EX that just >auctioned off at: It actually is also a DCT-11EM, the lower bar of the E is obscured because it is printed on the line. They are identical, with the more recently auctioned one being produced earlier. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Aug 21 15:26:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: PowerUser external SCSI HD In-Reply-To: from chris at "Aug 21, 2 02:24:55 pm" Message-ID: <200208212034.NAA05994@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > and the 80 MB Rodime/Jasmine that was > the original, made a very nice wind chime). Rodime had a deservedly bad name, but in the interest of fairness, my Mac Plus has a Rodime 20MB drive connected to it which has run 100% for a very long time. OTOH, this Rodime was the second of two, because the first refused to be formatted. Hmm. :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- My Pink Floyd code: v1.2a s BO 1/0/pw tinG 0? 0 Relics 2 8 <6mar98> -------- From mythtech at mac.com Wed Aug 21 15:46:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: PowerUser external SCSI HD Message-ID: >Rodime had a deservedly bad name, but in the interest of fairness, my >Mac Plus has a Rodime 20MB drive connected to it which has run 100% for >a very long time. I happen to have a pair of Rodime 20 Plus external drives, and a Rodime 40 external. All three were bought used from Computer (can't remember the name, some Computer place that was a big Apple dealer in the 80's and went out of business). They had a yearly warehouse clearance sale, where all their stores sent unsold or used/returned items, and they sold them to the public cheap. I think I paid $200 for the 20's and $300 for the 40, this is when the Mac SE had just moved to the FDHD, so they weren't that bad of prices (I think they were about 50% off the normal price) All three still work to this day (um... ok, maybe one of the 20 megs is dead, not sure, but I am using one of the 20's right this very minute in the next room, and the 40, last I knew was operational... since I can't vouch for the where abouts of the other 20, it might be dead). -chris From mbg at TheWorld.com Wed Aug 21 16:00:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: Troubles copying RT-11 tapes on VT103 (continued) Message-ID: <200208212100.RAA72228258@shell.TheWorld.com> >i) COPY/SYS DDO: DD1: This needs to be followed by the COPY/BOOT DD1:RT11FB.SYS DD1: and then it should be bootable. As for initializing the output tape (DD1) first, yes... that is advisable: INIT/NOQ DD1: However, I'm concerned by the INPUT and OUTPUT errors. The OUTPUT error while doing the COPY/BOOT indicates that block 0 or 2-5 are bad on the output tape. These are the blocks which would receive the boot code. The INPUT error from DD0 indicates that they have a bad bootable tape... if it is the only copy they have, then they really have a problem. When the system is booting, it should be possible to interrupt the startup command file by simply ^Cing as soon as you see the RT11FB V04.00 bootup banner. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Aug 21 16:03:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: HDDs (was Re: PowerUser external SCSI HD References: Message-ID: <015e01c24955$9cc996a0$0100000a@deepspacenine> chris wrote: > Well, one day, Rodime shipped Jasmine an entire lot of defective > drives (and not a small lot, like thousands and thousands of them). > Jasmine, sold these off, after packing them up, and doing their basic > burn in. But the defects wouldn't show up until the drives had been > run for some time... then Kapow... drive would die. Of course, this > would happen about 60 days into good use, right before the 90 day > warrenty expired. Nasty... > Suddenly Jasmine found themselves with many an angry customer, > wanting a warrenty repair on their drive. More than they could afford > to handle. So they tried to push the problem off on Rodime (after > all, it was their drive that died), but Rodime denied responsibility, > saying Jasmine bought the drives, and it was their problem to test > them, and make sure they were good. *!!!* That's the sort of thing that would make me want to call my lawyer... > Two good things came of this... 1: Rodime folded not long after > because of similar problems (from what I understand at least, I know > they closed, and I know they had a massive run of drives they sold to > the public go out while under warrenty). So they pretty much got > their just dues. Surprisingly enough Rodime are still around. They're operating under a new name and they've switched markets. They no longer make HDAs, they sell licenses to use their patents... > 2: A few of the Jasmine techs got together and formed a company, that > was one of the first in a soon to grow industry of Data Recovery > services of hard drives. They formed the company "Drive Savers" which > advertises to this day in the back of most Mac magazines. And I thought Ontrack were the first... > the 80 MB Rodime/Jasmine that was the > original, made a very nice wind chime). :-) I bet the HDA casing would have made a nice ashtray... Anyone ever heard of a now-defunct drive maker called Kalok -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ PGP Key ID: 0x0E18C95F PGP Key Fingerprint: 2741 5CB7 1D45 6F77 D1FC FA3D 7A87 2DA4 0E18 C95F From donm at cts.com Wed Aug 21 18:29:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: PowerUser external SCSI HD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > > It's probably a re-badged SyQuest drive that can do 44 and 88 MB > > > carthridges. I have a lot of media for these so let me know if you want a > > > couple to play around with it. I am a tad embarrassed! Unaccountably for me, I asked the question before I pulled the cover. As many of you surmised it is a rebadged Syquest SQ3105 SCSI unit. Sigh :( - don From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 21 18:30:10 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP documentation) In-Reply-To: <20020821025533.9799.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Aug 20, 2 07:55:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1929 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020821/5ff56c47/attachment.ksh From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Aug 21 18:46:00 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP documentation) In-Reply-To: References: <20020821025533.9799.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020821183908.024f87a0@pc> At 12:08 AM 8/22/2002 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: >I'd do both. For some reason I feel that good old analogue tape is going >to be a lot easier to understand in he future than some of these modern >compressed digital formats.... I wouldn't use anything but a straight digitization of the audio, either, if it was a purely audio recorder. Turning it to MP3 could yield mush in a spot and you'd never know it. Many tape readers for PC-level machines were just doing zero-crossing counting and other simple tricks. MP3 and other codecs are aimed at making sound that pleases the ear, not other machines. - John From zaft at azstarnet.com Wed Aug 21 20:19:00 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon C. Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: Housecleaning -- Symantec Think C 4.0 for Mac In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020820151305.02de7c58@pop.azstarnet.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020821181729.02b91a78@pop.azstarnet.com> At 03:15 PM 8/20/2002 -0700, you wrote: > Free for cost of shipping to 1st respondent. Says its for Mac > Plus, SE, SE/30, II, IIx, IIcx. Requires 1 MB RAM, System 6.x. Circa 1989. > > Please email me, not the list! Spoken for! I still have the Pathworks for Mac docs... G Gordon Zaft zaft@azstarnet.com From blacklord at telstra.com Wed Aug 21 21:13:00 2002 From: blacklord at telstra.com (blacklord) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: PowerUser external SCSI HD Message-ID: <3a92738d08.38d083a927@bigpond.com> Hi Cameron, > > Rodime had a deservedly bad name, but in the interest of fairness, my > Mac Plus has a Rodime 20MB drive connected to it which has run > 100% for > a very long time. I've a pair of 40mb Rodime drives here (RLL'd out to 67mb) that have been running since 1988 - almost non-stop (on one of the BBS machines). One is a little noisy (always has been), but apart from that they are extremely reliable - let's see they must be at least 7 or 8 years past their "use by" date ? No dead sectors, no power up sticking - the only drive older is a 20mb Seagate ST225 that has been in use (sporadically) since oooohhh 86 or 87. Got plenty of spare ones though :-) Wonder what a hundred or so ST225's would go for on eBay :-) cheers, Lance ---------------- Powered by telstra.com From curt at atari-history.com Wed Aug 21 22:58:01 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: Wanted: Cromemco assistance References: <3a92738d08.38d083a927@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <003701c2498f$e2210140$01000001@cvendel> Hi, I am planning on purchasing a Cromemco Z-2 system shortly, it has some special purpose Atari designed boards installed and was used within Atari to develop Atari 2600 VCS games. However the unit is missing the front cover, disk drive and OS software. If anyone can point me to a site(s) with good information on the systems and anyone who may have spare parts to sell like boards, keyboard and so forth, please let me know, thanks. Curt From mythtech at mac.com Wed Aug 21 23:17:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: HDDs (was Re: PowerUser external SCSI HD Message-ID: >> 2: A few of the Jasmine techs got together and formed a company, that >> was one of the first in a soon to grow industry of Data Recovery >> services of hard drives. They formed the company "Drive Savers" which >> advertises to this day in the back of most Mac magazines. >And I thought Ontrack were the first... I can't say who was THE first, but I know Drive Savers was very early in the game. I would assume there were a few companies before them, probably some that carried over from recovering data on floppies, tapes, and other pre hard drive storage media. -chris From mythtech at mac.com Wed Aug 21 23:19:01 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: HDDs (was Re: PowerUser external SCSI HD Message-ID: >Anyone ever heard of a now-defunct drive maker called Kalok Yup, I have one of their Hard-Card drives. The hard drive on an ISA card things. I don't think mine works anymore, but it might be a driver issue. I have one by them, and one by Quantum I think (an actual "Hard-Card" brand, which I think I tracked to Quantum at one point), and neither appear to work for me right now, but I know I don't have device drivers for either, so that might be the only issue. -chris From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 21 23:24:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: Wanted: Cromemco assistance In-Reply-To: <003701c2498f$e2210140$01000001@cvendel> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Curt Vendel wrote: > I am planning on purchasing a Cromemco Z-2 system shortly, it has > some special purpose Atari designed boards installed and was used within > Atari to develop Atari 2600 VCS games. However the unit is missing the > front cover, disk drive and OS software. If anyone can point me to a > site(s) with good information on the systems and anyone who may have > spare parts to sell like boards, keyboard and so forth, please let me > know, thanks. Wow! Super cool! As you know, I have a set of these boards that I got over 10 years ago way before I realized their significance. Which boards did you get? The Cromemco Z2 is a typical (well, much nicer) S-100 system. If it had a keyboard attached at all, it would have been a parallel keyboard. Much more likely, though, is that you'll just need to find a decent dumb terminal to connect up to one of its serial ports, or just use a PC with some good terminal software (like ProComm). I can't help you with the front cover, but as far as the disk drive, probably any single-sided, single density 5.25" drive will do, such as a Tandon T100 (I hope I got the model right). I have various versions of Cromix on 5.25" and 8" disks, but will have to dig these out, and the chances of this happening in the next 2 months is close to zero :( Is that what they used for these systems, or did they use CP/M? In that case, again, I have the OS, but it will take a while to dig them out. Write me privately if I can be of assistance. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From fernande at internet1.net Wed Aug 21 23:41:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: HDDs (was Re: PowerUser external SCSI HD References: Message-ID: <3D646AC7.4020006@internet1.net> Chris wrote: > Yup, I have one of their Hard-Card drives. The hard drive on an ISA card > things. I don't think mine works anymore, but it might be a driver issue. > I have one by them, and one by Quantum I think (an actual "Hard-Card" > brand, which I think I tracked to Quantum at one point), and neither > appear to work for me right now, but I know I don't have device drivers > for either, so that might be the only issue. > > -chris > Since they are already broken, wack them on the floor, holding them perpendicular to the floor, then hurry up and pluggum in :-) I "fixed" one that I had several times doing that :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From ipscone at msdsite.com Wed Aug 21 23:54:01 2002 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: Cromemco 64KZ Info Needed Message-ID: <3D640AA1.8407.811D87@localhost> Hope this is not a duplicate. The first one did not show up. I have just obtained a Cromemco 64KZ board. This has 64K of RAM and I'd like to test this out this weekend. Unfortunately, I don't have any documentation. There are 4 banks of RAM (16K x 8) Each bank is labeled "page0", "page1", "page2" and "page3". There are also 3 8-pin dip switches: I have a couple of photos at: http://www.msdsite.com/vcomp/cromemco/photos.html Since this is a 64K board and since there is other memory in my system. I'm hoping this allows some sort of bank switching. But without docs, I don't know how to use it. I assume the Bank A/B allow setting which bank a particular 16K might reside but am not sure. And the address lines of A15, A14 are a mystery. Is there a way to switch banks by writing to an I/O port? Location? Can any of you help with an explanation how this works and how I might use the switches? Thanks in advance, Mike From frustum at pacbell.net Thu Aug 22 00:20:01 2002 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: chip pinout help Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020821220309.021a29b0@postoffice.pacbell.net> I'm reverse engineering the PC boards in my Wang 2200. I have been able to find most of the chips that have been used on the board I'm currently workign on, except for a couple. Does anybody know the pinout for these? 1) 8T10, quad latch (with either tristate or open-collector outputs, I don't know which) It is a TTL device, made by Signetics, I think. 16 pins. 1976 date code. (N8T10B is the fullly qualified part name) 2) This one is a reverse job. The microcode board has quite a few mask ROM chips. I don't care what the actual part number is, but I'm hoping someone will say, "hey, that pinout is just like a ..." so that I can find a prom programmer to read the thing. If I have to, I guess I could build a parallel port dongle to read them. Here's what I know: 24 pins data out on pins 16-23 pin 1 is +5V pins 2-8, 10, 11, 13, 15 are the address pins pin 14 is either a chip select or output enable; active low pins 12 and 24 are pulled up to +5; chip selects maybe? pin 9 might be -15V (!) Embarrassingly, I can't find a connection to GND. unfortunately, I don't know the backplane connections either, so I can't identify if pin 9 is really -V or just an alternate ground (but I see a bypass cap between the digital ground and this net, so it makes me think). BTW, I have started a web page to archive this information if anybody cares: http://www.thebattles.net/wang/wangtech.html So far I only have one simple I/O board done. Once I have enough of the system figured out, I'll write an emulator for it. That's where all this reverse engineering drudgery becomes fun. Thanks for any suggestions. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From frustum at pacbell.net Thu Aug 22 00:40:01 2002 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: chip pinout help In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020821220309.021a29b0@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020821223846.0219b9b0@postoffice.pacbell.net> Further clarification, and I can answer my own first question... see below, please. At 10:19 PM 8/21/02 -0700, you wrote: >I'm reverse engineering the PC boards in my Wang 2200. I have been able >to find most of the chips that have been used on the board I'm currently >workign on, except for a couple. > >Does anybody know the pinout for these? > >1) 8T10, quad latch (with either tristate or open-collector outputs, I >don't know which) > It is a TTL device, made by Signetics, I think. 16 pins. 1976 date > code. > (N8T10B is the fullly qualified part name It turns out that the 74173 is the same part with a different name. >2) This one is a reverse job. The microcode board has quite a few mask >ROM chips. I don't care what the actual part number is, but I'm hoping >someone will say, "hey, that pinout is just like a ..." so that I can find >a prom programmer to read the thing. If I have to, I guess I could build >a parallel port dongle to read them. Here's what I know: > > 24 pins > data out on pins 16-23 > pin 1 is +5V > pins 2-8, 10, 11, 13, 15 are the address pins > pin 14 is either a chip select or output enable; active low > pins 12 and 24 are pulled up to +5; chip selects maybe? > pin 9 might be -15V (!) One more thing, the manufacturer's logo and part prefix are "EA". Thanks again. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From geoffr at zipcon.net Thu Aug 22 01:16:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: HDDs (was Re: PowerUser external SCSI HD In-Reply-To: <015e01c24955$9cc996a0$0100000a@deepspacenine> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020821231451.04247e10@mail.zipcon.net> At 09:59 PM 8/21/02 +0100, you wrote: >Anyone ever heard of a now-defunct drive maker called Kalok Yup, wasn't that formed by some former Seagate techs? From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Aug 22 02:26:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: HDDs (was Re: PowerUser external SCSI HD) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020821231451.04247e10@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <002901c249ac$ea5f1e60$0100000a@deepspacenine> Geoff Reed wrote: > At 09:59 PM 8/21/02 +0100, you wrote: > >> Anyone ever heard of a now-defunct drive maker called Kalok > > Yup, wasn't that formed by some former Seagate techs? I don't know if that's true, but I know they had a particularly nasty reliability rating. I remember reading somewhere about a store that sold the Kalok drives. After numerous returns, they discontinued them. A customer walks in and buys their last one. The store insists on soak-testing it for a few weeks. It survives. Two days later the customer comes back, drive in hand. Said drive was dead. I can vouch for the nasty reliability - I know of a school that had a few Acorn Archimedes machines with Kalok hard drives fitted (Octagon series IIRC, Acorn ST506 controller). They all died after six months. And I thought Toshiba's 2.5" drives were bad... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ PGP Key ID: 0x0E18C95F PGP Key Fingerprint: 2741 5CB7 1D45 6F77 D1FC FA3D 7A87 2DA4 0E18 C95F From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Aug 22 02:29:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: Wanted: Cromemco assistance In-Reply-To: <003701c2498f$e2210140$01000001@cvendel> References: <3a92738d08.38d083a927@bigpond.com> <003701c2498f$e2210140$01000001@cvendel> Message-ID: <14045.207.55.102.175.1030001348.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Curt Vendel wrote: > I am planning on purchasing a Cromemco Z-2 system shortly, it has some > special purpose Atari designed boards installed and was used within > Atari to develop Atari 2600 VCS games. However the unit is missing > the front cover, disk drive and OS software. If anyone can point me > to a site(s) with good information on the systems and anyone who may > have spare parts to sell like boards, keyboard and so forth, please let > me know, thanks. Are you sure it was for 2600 development? The ones that I've heard of were for 400/800 development. Basically they had the Atari 400/800 circuitry grafted onto an S100 bus. There was a 6502 CPU card. The system had the POKEY, ANTIC, and CTIA chips, but I don't recall whether they were on the CPU card or a separate card. The memory card was a standard S100 card. In principle, you would be able to run at least some of the regular Atari 400/800 software on it. The disk controller in the system was for development use only, and was NOT compatible with any regular Atari disk controller, although you could write a handler for it, and perhaps Atari had one. But you could hook up an 810, 1050, or the like just as with a "normal" Atari. And of course the EPROM programmer was not a standard Atari 400/800 feature. About ten years ago, I bought a binder full of docs on the 400/800 dev system from Weird Stuff Warehouse. Unfortunately the system itself was nowhere to be seen, so either it had already sold, or was in the back warehouse somewhere, or (less likely) Weird Stuff only got the docs. I still have the binder. It's somewhere in a collection of about 400 Conticos and boxes, and I don't know which one. Eventually I'll find it and get the stuff scanned. But if what you have was really for 2600 development, I don't know anything about it. Given how early the 2600 was developed, I'm dubious that they would have used S100 gear, but it's possible. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Aug 22 02:35:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: chip pinout help In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020821220309.021a29b0@postoffice.pacbell.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020821220309.021a29b0@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: <14056.207.55.102.175.1030001722.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Jim Battle wrote: > 2) This one is a reverse job. The microcode board has quite a few mask > ROM chips. I don't care what the actual part number is, but I'm > hoping someone will say, "hey, that pinout is just like a ..." so that > I can find a prom programmer to read the thing. If I have to, I guess > I could build a parallel port dongle to read them. Here's what I > know: > > 24 pins > data out on pins 16-23 > pin 1 is +5V > pins 2-8, 10, 11, 13, 15 are the address pins > pin 14 is either a chip select or output enable; active low > pins 12 and 24 are pulled up to +5; chip selects maybe? > pin 9 might be -15V (!) > > Embarrassingly, I can't find a connection to GND. unfortunately, I > don't know the backplane connections either, so I can't identify if > pin 9 is really -V or just an alternate ground (but I see a bypass cap > between the digital ground and this net, so it makes me think). PMOS parts typically ran on a single supply of around 12-15V. For TTL compatability, it was common to run them from +5V and -9V, with noground. +5V and -15V would effectively provide a 20V supply, which is more than was typical with PMOS, but not completely out of the question. > One more thing, the manufacturer's logo and part prefix are "EA". "Electronic Arrays". They were pretty big in masked ROMs and keyboard encoders at one time. I'm not sure what eventually happened to them, but they were probably acquired by someone else. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Aug 22 03:00:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: OT: Chip logos (was Re: chip pinout help) References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020821220309.021a29b0@postoffice.pacbell.net> <14056.207.55.102.175.1030001722.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <003701c249b1$9f8f4180$0100000a@deepspacenine> Eric Smith wrote: > "Electronic Arrays". They were pretty big in masked ROMs and keyboard > encoders at one time. I'm not sure what eventually happened to them, > but they were probably acquired by someone else. Has anyone here used my "IC-ID" database that I uploaded to my website? I'm trying to get as many IC manufacturer logos into this database for the purposes of identifying old parts. Right now it's Win32 only, but I can port it over to Linux by just re-compiling it under Kylix (it was originally written in Delphi). I'm also after any logos that aren't in the database - I know Electronic Arrays aren't, one of VLSI Tech's old logos (looks like "VTI", they later used a three-lines-and-a-circle logo) and some others aren't in there. If anyone with some oddball chips can e-mail me any IC logos I don't have, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ PGP Key ID: 0x0E18C95F PGP Key Fingerprint: 2741 5CB7 1D45 6F77 D1FC FA3D 7A87 2DA4 0E18 C95F From frustum at pacbell.net Thu Aug 22 03:07:00 2002 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: chip pinout help In-Reply-To: <14056.207.55.102.175.1030001722.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.c om> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020821220309.021a29b0@postoffice.pacbell.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020821220309.021a29b0@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020822010017.021c58b0@postoffice.pacbell.net> At 12:35 AM 8/22/02 -0700, Eric Smith wrote: >Jim Battle wrote: > > 2) This one is a reverse job. The microcode board has quite a few mask > > ROM chips. I don't care what the actual part number is, but I'm > > hoping someone will say, "hey, that pinout is just like a ..." so that > > I can find a prom programmer to read the thing. If I have to, I guess > > I could build a parallel port dongle to read them. Here's what I > > know: > > > > 24 pins > > data out on pins 16-23 > > pin 1 is +5V > > pins 2-8, 10, 11, 13, 15 are the address pins > > pin 14 is either a chip select or output enable; active low > > pins 12 and 24 are pulled up to +5; chip selects maybe? > > pin 9 might be -15V (!) > > > > Embarrassingly, I can't find a connection to GND. unfortunately, I > > don't know the backplane connections either, so I can't identify if > > pin 9 is really -V or just an alternate ground (but I see a bypass cap > > between the digital ground and this net, so it makes me think). > >PMOS parts typically ran on a single supply of around 12-15V. For TTL >compatability, it was common to run them from +5V and -9V, with noground. > >+5V and -15V would effectively provide a 20V supply, which is more than >was typical with PMOS, but not completely out of the question. I had thought that maybe this was a possibility, and that input diodes would clamp the output voltage to the digital ground, but I thought that would be too hokey to be workable, and perhaps damaging to either the ROM output or the clamp diodes on the input of the 75157 that the ROM is feeding. Hmm, but then how is translation done on the inputs to the ROM? It is a TTL device feeding the address, so the 0-5v swing (0.5v to 4+v) swing would appear to be an input swing of +15 to +20. I guess I'll have to tack down some wires so that I can look at the voltages in an operating system... > > One more thing, the manufacturer's logo and part prefix are "EA". > >"Electronic Arrays". They were pretty big in masked ROMs and keyboard >encoders at one time. I'm not sure what eventually happened to them, >but they were probably acquired by someone else. Thanks for the great info. It looks like I'll have to build some kind of tester myself to dump the ROMs. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Aug 22 03:38:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: Bad Drives Message-ID: I was working for a rat-hole computer store when the Kaypro 10s debuted - Kaypro made a deal with Lal Tandon to buy 10MB drives made (IIRC) in Mother India - at any rate the 10s of that vintage had about an 80% DOA rate. You could (and I did, on numerous occasions) show up in the reception area of Kaypro in San Diego lugging a 10, and someone would bring you out a new one on a box, that had been burned-in... no questions asked, just "Sorry for the inconveience, here's a new one under warranty." They had a big tent set up in the parking lot complete with mobile air conditioners to handle all the re-work. It was truly a nightmare. These were from the batch where you could pay extra to have your unit 'personalized': it was supposed to be a mark of distinction that you had an expensive portable computer with your name tastefully inlaid. What happened in practice was the last guy on the production line took one of those vibrating-carbide-stylus things and scrawled whatever was on the invoice all over the back plate - never mind the paint or the silk-screening.... it's funny, now... AND - my 1988 Mac SE30 came with a CMS internal HD, complete with a nice copy of nVir - courtesy of a disgruntled quality-control tech at CMS. It would replicate itself at intervals and grab the speaker and say "Don't Panic" in that early MacInTalk voice. Then at some point it would say "Now Panic!" and trash your HD. Pretty tame as virii go today, back then the store I bought it from had to shut down for two days while they disinfected every machine and disk in the joint. Mine included. And I just recently found the original invoice for that machine, which looks down on me now from the shelf where it sits in snug reirement; it used to run my music studio. Cheers John From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Aug 22 03:59:00 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: Fwd: Question on selling rare classic systems.. Message-ID: Here's someone looking to sell some systems. If interested in any of them, reply directly to him. Jeff >Status: U >From: "M. Hazelton" >To: >Subject: Question on selling rare classic systems.. >Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 22:17:22 -0400 >X-Priority: 3 > >My parent's have been cleaning out there house so I decided to pick >up all the systems I've owned over the years. Unfortunately some of >the systems and games were not found (my Intellivision, Colecovision >and Tandy collection). I did find two Vectrex systems with 11 >cartridges and 7 overlays. A Bally Astrocade Montgomery Ward's >edition with 7 games and basic cartridge with unfortuantely one >controller. An intellivision Aquarius computer with the mini >expander, two controllers, 4 games and all the overlays. Three >Atari computers were found (600XL, 800XL and 130XE) with 1010 >cassette, 1050 disc drive, Trackball and Track & Field Controller >and tons of cartridges, manuals, tapes and discs. I'm planning >on testing them all this weekend to see what works (It'll bring back >some good memories). I'm not really a collector so I'm probably >going to end up selling all of it. My question is what is the best >way to go about it? I was going to put it on Ebay but would trying >to find a private collector be better? Thank you for any help. > >Michael Hazelton -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020822/036488f8/attachment.html From RCini at congressfinancial.com Thu Aug 22 08:09:33 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: Adobe Acrobat Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5126D89@MAIL10> Hello, all: Does anyone have a spare copy of Adobe Acrobat 4 (full) lying around that they don't need? I have Acrobat 3 and apparently the 5.0 upgrade that I bought and opened will only upgrade 4.0. Please contact me off-list. Thanks. Rich From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Aug 22 08:20:00 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: Thanks Jeff was Re: Great finds at Auction Today and at Thrift In-Reply-To: <200208211633.JAA16282@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200208211633.JAA16282@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <02Aug22.092414edt.119339@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >Hi > Cocktails are fun. One can often convince the >significant other that these are really just tables >and should be part of the household furniture. >Dwight You don't see that many cocktail units, compared to uprights, since they were used mainly in bars and restraunts. I'd like to eventually get a Zaxxon unit but would settle for John's if he ever decides to part with it Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 22 08:50:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:46 2005 Subject: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP documentation) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020822135010.10450.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > I am not certain if the VIP uses a header or not, but given how simple > > the monitor is, and the fact that unlike, say, the PET, there is no > > file name (and no redundant copy), I would expect that the first file > > on the tape is completely hosed. > > > Can you not hack it so that it will read all it can of the file (say by > ignoring checksums, at least on the first block, or something). Then you > can move the data around in memory, and type in the missing bytes. It > will be a lot less work than retyping the whole file (and less prone to > errors!). The amount of time it would take to reverse-engineer the tape loading subroutines and hack it up would be substantially longer than typing in a few kbytes into a hex keypad. If I had a box of tapes in this state, it might be worth it. I do not. If I did not have the original listings to retype from, it also might be worth it, but I do. > > > I have repaired cassette pressure pads in the past... > > > If it had screws, I'd have done that already... > > You cna open up welded cassettes too... There used to be a tool sold in > the UK for doing this (amazingly), but a knife, small screwdriver and > pliers will generally do it. I'm surprised to learn of a tool, but yes, I have done it also. I have a collection of Doctor Demento tapes I made between 1978 and 1982 and on many of them, the adhesive that binds the clear leader to the beginning of the audio tape has failed. Before I discovered a workaround (there's enough adhesion to handle manual manipulation, but not the shock of mechanical rewind nor the pressure of the pinch roller) I had a few tapes detach the leader from the audio tape. > However I learnt _very_ early on to only buy screwed cassettes unless > there was a very good reason not to I was 13 the last time I bought any quantity of audio cassettes. I switched to floppies by 15 (and I _still_ have "disk 1" - BASF 5.25" formatted for a 1541) > I'd do both. For some reason I feel that good old analogue tape is going > to be a lot easier to understand in he future than some of these modern > compressed digital formats.... True. But paper listings are the most durable of all. In the distant future, we'll still have eyes and fingers even if we migrate away from pushing electrons through semiconductors for fun/profit. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 22 09:02:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Wanted: Cromemco assistance In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020822140225.42306.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > I can't help you with the front cover, but as far as the disk drive, > probably any single-sided, single density 5.25" drive will do, such as a > Tandon T100 (I hope I got the model right). You are probably thinking of the TM100s that shipped with Kaypros and IBM 5150 PCs. There's a (if _I_ remember correctly) model TM100-2 and a TM100-4, SSSD and DSSD. Someone here on the list, I think, has the ROMs for a Kaypro-4 to let it use DSSD drives. > I have various versions of Cromix on 5.25" and 8" disks, but will have to > dig these out, and the chances of this happening in the next 2 months is > close to zero :( Cool. If you _do_ dig them out, I would perhaps like to get a copy as well. I picked up a large box of Cromemco boards at Dayton this year for $1/board plus another $1 for the 8" drive (with motorized eject). The seller left the box and PSU at home, unfortunately. So I have this Cromemco system minus the shell and transformer, but I have the backplane and the drive and all the cards. I do have a box to stuff the cards into for testing - my sister-in-law works at the local post office and a customer mentioned having an S100 system he wanted to find a good home for... It appears to be complete, with two 8" drives, a video card, etc, but with no software, I haven't done much with it. I have CP/M on 5.25" disks for the C128 and the Kaypro, but no CP/M on 8" for anything. I've never even _heard_ of Cromix. Is it Cromemco CP/M or something completely different? I remember the Cromemco ads in old Byte magazines. Since I was a) a poor grade-school kid and b) into PETs and Apples, they never appealed to me, but I do remember them. Maybe if one of my friends' fathers had been a CP/M user, I might have picked up some interest earlier. Are there docs on the web for Cromemco boards? Mostly, I care about jumpers, etc. I don't think I _need_ schematics yet. Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 22 09:39:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Wanted: Cromemco assistance In-Reply-To: <20020822140225.42306.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020822143859.16499.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > > I have various versions of Cromix on 5.25" and 8" disks, but will > > have to dig these out, and the chances of this happening in the > > next 2 months is close to zero :( > > Cool. If you _do_ dig them out, I would perhaps like to get a copy > as well. I picked up a large box of Cromemco boards at Dayton this > year for $1/board... To follow up on my own post... Nevermind. I did a bit of Googling and found several references to Cromix including this gem (comparing the state of microcomputer UNIX-compatible systems in 1981, with specs and *prices*), lifted from a larger paper on an "Ultracomputer" proposal. http://rlab.cs.nyu.edu/ultra/reports/proton/01 -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com From foo at siconic.com Thu Aug 22 09:59:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: OT: Chip logos (was Re: chip pinout help) In-Reply-To: <003701c249b1$9f8f4180$0100000a@deepspacenine> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Philip Pemberton wrote: > I'm also after any logos that aren't in the database - I know Electronic > Arrays aren't, one of VLSI Tech's old logos (looks like "VTI", they > later used a three-lines-and-a-circle logo) and some others aren't in > there. If anyone with some oddball chips can e-mail me any IC logos I > don't have, I'd really appreciate it. Philip. I downloaded IC-ID to play around with it. It is a very nice project. A couple suggestions: 1) Why not make it web-based? It would be far more accessible and far easier to update. You also might consider making both versions. The web version could either be ported to Java, or just make it with a simple back-end database. 2) You may want to add some sort of alphabetic index (A-Z) so that someone can begin searching from a certain letter, or add a search capability. Maybe someone has an idea of what company's logo they are looking at and want to try to quickly confirm that before searching through the whole database. Nice work! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Aug 22 10:07:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Wanted: Cromemco assistance In-Reply-To: <20020822140225.42306.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I do have a box to stuff the cards into for testing - my sister-in-law > works at the local post office and a customer mentioned having an S100 > system he wanted to find a good home for... It appears to be complete, > with two 8" drives, a video card, etc, but with no software, I haven't > done much with it. I have CP/M on 5.25" disks for the C128 and the > Kaypro, but no CP/M on 8" for anything. I've never even _heard_ of > Cromix. Is it Cromemco CP/M or something completely different? It's Cromemco's version of Unix. I had a System One with a hard drive that had Cromix on it. It's not bad. Unfortunately, that hard drive crashed shortly after the system was exhibited at VCF 1.0, before I had a chance to try to back it up. One day it'll be my first hard drive recovery project. > Are there docs on the web for Cromemco boards? Mostly, I care about > jumpers, etc. I don't think I _need_ schematics yet. Herb Johnson sells copies of S-100 docs: http://njcc.com/~hjohnson/s100.html He has an extensive Cromemco collection: http://njcc.com/~hjohnson/d_crom.html Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jbmcb at hotmail.com Thu Aug 22 10:08:01 2002 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP documentation) References: <20020821025533.9799.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> <5.0.0.25.0.20020821183908.024f87a0@pc> Message-ID: Try FLAC lossless encoding at http://flac.sourceforge.com/ It's open source and available for Window$ and *nix style OSes. On a straight tone it does about 2:1 compression. Not great, but better than nothing, and yields an EXACT (to the bit) replica when expanded. Cutting out noise should yield better compression ratios, use a good quality tape deck and audio digitizer. An external USB/IEEE1394 digitizer would be ideal, cutting out internal computer EMI/RFI noise. Also, to save space, figure out what frequency the tones are encoded at and adjust the sampling rate accordingly (If it uses 2KHz tones, you only need a 4KHz sampling rate, and can get away with an 8KHz sampling rate for recording) You can pass it through a brickwall filter to clean out all the junk/noise above your frequency if you have a nice enough audio processor. Sox might do it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Foust" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 7:41 PM Subject: Re: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP documentation) > At 12:08 AM 8/22/2002 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > >I'd do both. For some reason I feel that good old analogue tape is going > >to be a lot easier to understand in he future than some of these modern > >compressed digital formats.... > > I wouldn't use anything but a straight digitization of the > audio, either, if it was a purely audio recorder. Turning > it to MP3 could yield mush in a spot and you'd never know it. > Many tape readers for PC-level machines were just doing zero-crossing > counting and other simple tricks. MP3 and other codecs are > aimed at making sound that pleases the ear, not other machines. > > - John > From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Aug 22 10:28:00 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: chip pinout help In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020822010017.021c58b0@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Jim Battle wrote: > At 12:35 AM 8/22/02 -0700, Eric Smith wrote: > >Jim Battle wrote: > > > 2) This one is a reverse job. The microcode board has quite a few mask > > > ROM chips. I don't care what the actual part number is, but I'm > > > hoping someone will say, "hey, that pinout is just like a ..." so that > > > I can find a prom programmer to read the thing. If I have to, I guess > > > I could build a parallel port dongle to read them. Here's what I > > > know: > > > > > > 24 pins > > > data out on pins 16-23 > > > pin 1 is +5V > > > pins 2-8, 10, 11, 13, 15 are the address pins > > > pin 14 is either a chip select or output enable; active low > > > pins 12 and 24 are pulled up to +5; chip selects maybe? > > > pin 9 might be -15V (!) > > > > > > Embarrassingly, I can't find a connection to GND. unfortunately, I > > > don't know the backplane connections either, so I can't identify if > > > pin 9 is really -V or just an alternate ground (but I see a bypass cap > > > between the digital ground and this net, so it makes me think). > > > >PMOS parts typically ran on a single supply of around 12-15V. For TTL > >compatability, it was common to run them from +5V and -9V, with noground. > > > >+5V and -15V would effectively provide a 20V supply, which is more than > >was typical with PMOS, but not completely out of the question. > > I had thought that maybe this was a possibility, and that input diodes > would clamp the output voltage to the digital ground, but I thought that > would be too hokey to be workable, and perhaps damaging to either the ROM > output or the clamp diodes on the input of the 75157 that the ROM is feeding. I think that the PMOS outputs are source followers with (usually external) pulldown resistors, so that an 'on' PMOS output will be pulled up toward 5V, giving a TTL high, and an off output will be pulled low by the pulldown resistors giving a TTL low. Old PMOS stuff is very tolerant of power supply variations, I remember using old Nat Semi PMOS shift registers on a single 12v supply without any trouble, though they were rated for +5,-12 > > Hmm, but then how is translation done on the inputs to the ROM? It is a > TTL device feeding the address, so the 0-5v swing (0.5v to 4+v) swing would > appear to be an input swing of +15 to +20. The inputs are referred to the 5V supply (and often require pullup resistors on the TTL outputs for interfacing) > > I guess I'll have to tack down some wires so that I can look at the > voltages in an operating system... > > > > One more thing, the manufacturer's logo and part prefix are "EA". > > > >"Electronic Arrays". They were pretty big in masked ROMs and keyboard > >encoders at one time. I'm not sure what eventually happened to them, > >but they were probably acquired by someone else. > > Thanks for the great info. It looks like I'll have to build some kind of > tester myself to dump the ROMs. > > > > ----- > Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net > > Peter Wallace From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Aug 22 10:41:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Looking for a BBN Advanced Computers Inc TC2000 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020822104134.01b42c60@ubanproductions.com> Hello, Years ago, I helped develop the symmetric Un*x operating system code for the massively parallel BBN Advanced Computers Inc. Butterfly (68020) and TC2000 (88100) non-uniform memory architecture computers. I've been trying to track down a "small" TC2000 machine to add to my collection, but I am afraid that there may not be any left. If you happen to come across anyone who knows of one, I would appreciate it if you would let me know. --tnx --tom From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Aug 22 10:57:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP documentation) References: <20020822135010.10450.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D6508FC.3040608@jetnet.ab.ca> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > True. But paper listings are the most durable of all. In the distant > future, we'll still have eyes and fingers even if we migrate away from > pushing electrons through semiconductors for fun/profit. Hmm computers using the ever popular 12AX7. :) From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Aug 22 11:03:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Wanted: Cromemco assistance In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I can't help you with the front cover, but as far as the disk drive, > probably any single-sided, single density 5.25" drive will do, such as a > Tandon T100 (I hope I got the model right). Some Chromemcos were DSDD (such as Tandon TM100-2 (aka PC 360K)) > I have various versions of Cromix on 5.25" and 8" disks, but will have to > dig these out, and the chances of this happening in the next 2 months is > close to zero :( Is that what they used for these systems, or did they > use CP/M? In that case, again, I have the OS, but it will take a while to > dig them out. They also used CP/M. There were a couple of different Cromemco CP/M formats SS, DS, .... They made some dual processor systems Z80 + 68000, for a LOT more money than the Radio Shack model 16 (a cheap dual processor) From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Aug 22 11:38:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Wanted: Cromemco assistance In-Reply-To: <20020822140225.42306.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > > probably any single-sided, single density 5.25" drive will do, such as a > > Tandon T100 (I hope I got the model right). > You are probably thinking of the TM100s that shipped with Kaypros > and IBM 5150 PCs. There's a (if _I_ remember correctly) model TM100-2 > and a TM100-4, SSSD and DSSD. ???????????????????? WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY DSSD????????? ??????????????????? Everybody else uses that to mean Double sided single density! Except for Superbrain, where it stood for "SUPER density", since they had already used up "quad density" to refer to DSDD. The TM100-2 is DSDD (Double Sided Double Density) The TM100-4 is DSDD 96 TPI, (or "quad density", if you like that MARKETING terminology) (The TM100-4M is DSDD 100TPI! , for substitution of Micropolis type II) > Someone here on the list, I think, has > the ROMs for a Kaypro-4 to let it use DSSD drives. Do you mean switching to 80 track per side operation? > Kaypro, but no CP/M on 8" for anything. I've never even _heard_ of > Cromix. Is it Cromemco CP/M or something completely different? Cromemco people wanted Unix. From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Aug 22 12:04:00 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Reseating chips Message-ID: <002101c249fe$14dddb80$023ca8c0@blafleur> How many of you remember the problem of chips coming unseated in older computers (like the PET) and having to push all the chips down as the equipment ages? I've now got this problem with my Kurzweil MIDIBOARD (a 6502-based MIDI keyboard controller). A few months ago I had to open it and reseat all the chips. Now I have to do it again. Does anyone know any tricks to keep this problem from occuring? I fear I'm going to have to do this a lot now, especially with the vibrations of playing the keys. Thanks for any tips. - Bob From Qstieee at aol.com Thu Aug 22 12:12:09 2002 From: Qstieee at aol.com (Qstieee@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: anyone in Boston or western MA? Message-ID: <5752E7FD.5BBD7EA3.001A265C@aol.com> I am in north central CT. Takes me about 1:15 to get to Tanglewood. If this is your first time, bring a cooler ! You will be parking a long way from your car. Lawn seating effectivity is based on your neighbors, and in this weather may not be so great. Shade is limited. From tonyp at jaguar.latticesemi.com Thu Aug 22 12:12:45 2002 From: tonyp at jaguar.latticesemi.com (Anthony Phillips) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Pin-outs for VT220 Message-ID: <3D6115C1.8060305@latticesemi.com> Did you ever get the Pin Out Diagram for the VT220 Serial Connection Port? I am currently in the same boat that you were, and can find little or no references anywhere? -- Regards, ***************************** Tony Phillips IT Engineer Lattice Semiconductor UK Phone: (44) 01249 700895 ***************************** From wayne at waynesmith.org Thu Aug 22 12:13:10 2002 From: wayne at waynesmith.org (Wayne Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: HP 1000 Rack near Harrisburg, PA Message-ID: <20020819151339.13248.h010.c001.wm@mail.waynesmith.org.criticalpath.net> There is a huge HP 1000 gov't surplus rack available near Harrisburg, PA. Here's a pic: http://home.earthlink.net/~wmsmith/HP1000.jpg Contact me for details if interested. -W From kelly at montbay.com Thu Aug 22 12:13:34 2002 From: kelly at montbay.com (Kelly Francis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: HP 9845B <- free paper Message-ID: Please e-mail if you know of paper for a 9876A. Thanks, Kelly J Francis HP Specialists Since 1978 Monterey Bay Communications 1010 Fair Ave Santa Cruz, CA 95060 831-429-6144 Ph 831-429-1918 Fax www.montbay.com From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Aug 22 12:13:52 2002 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Gnarly Z80 based desk/computer on eBay References: <000501c247f1$033e4c20$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <006b01c247f2$ae724fa0$01000001@cvendel> Wow!!! That is just gorgeous, true embodiment of the 70's computer workstations that I remember seeing on TV long before I got to finally work on computers in person. I remember seeing articles and even TV shows where you saw computer systems that were integrated right into desks, I remember seeing a lot of images of computers in brown faux wood desktops with orange/yellow ascent drawers and such, true 70's look & feel. Again... WOW!!!!! Cool! Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chandra Bajpai" To: Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 10:26 PM Subject: RE: Gnarly Z80 based desk/computer on eBay > I just received some 1977 Bytes magazines the other day and there was an > ad + review of this monster. I can't imagine how you ship this thing. > > -Chandra > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Steven M. Jones > Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 7:51 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Gnarly Z80 based desk/computer on eBay > > Noval 760 desk/computer on eBay. Like something out of Our Man Flynt, > half the desk tilts up to expose the CRT and cassette drive! Z80 based > and still working, somewhere in Kansas. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2047467277 > > No affiliation, and this one's so big I wouldn't even be interested if > it were nearby. > > --Steve. > > Steve Jones smj@spamfree.crash.com Arlington, > Mass. > CRASH!! Computing (One domain element should be removed) > > "Your information doesn't sleep. Why should your programmers?" > From jmen1 at earthlink.net Thu Aug 22 12:14:07 2002 From: jmen1 at earthlink.net (Jorge Mendez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Any sources for used raised flooring? Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE SALE: 4500 pieces of ACCESS COMPUTER FLOORING Severn/Concept 2000 with understructure and aluminum floor jacks. Make Offer. e-Breaker & Transformer, inc. 22700 S. Western Ave. Torranc, CA 90501 Tel: 310-533-6811 FAX: 310-533-6195 From ipscone at msdsite.com Thu Aug 22 12:15:29 2002 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Cromemco 64KZ Message-ID: <3D63D803.6850.5A7A2EC@localhost> I have just obtained a Cromemco 64KZ board. This has 64K of RAM and I'd like to test this out this weekend. Unfortunately, I don't have any documentation. There are 4 banks of RAM (16K x 8) Each bank is labeled "page0", "page1", "page2" and "page3". There are also 3 8-pin dip switches: I have a couple of photos at: http://www.msdsite.com/vcomp/cromemco/photos.html Since this is a 64K board and since there is other memory in my system. I'm hoping this allows some sort of bank switching. But without docs, I don't know how to use it. I assume the Bank A/B allow setting which bank a particular 16K might reside but am not sure. And the address lines of A15, A14 are a mystery. Is there a way to switch banks by writing to an I/O port? Location? Can any of you help with an explanation how this works and how I might use the switches? Thanks in advance, Mike From ipscone at msdsite.com Thu Aug 22 12:15:44 2002 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Cromemco 64KZ Info Needed Message-ID: <3D63ED8F.11056.F8B69@localhost> Hope this is not a duplicate. The first one did not show up. I have just obtained a Cromemco 64KZ board. This has 64K of RAM and I'd like to test this out this weekend. Unfortunately, I don't have any documentation. There are 4 banks of RAM (16K x 8) Each bank is labeled "page0", "page1", "page2" and "page3". There are also 3 8-pin dip switches: I have a couple of photos at: http://www.msdsite.com/vcomp/cromemco/photos.html Since this is a 64K board and since there is other memory in my system. I'm hoping this allows some sort of bank switching. But without docs, I don't know how to use it. I assume the Bank A/B allow setting which bank a particular 16K might reside but am not sure. And the address lines of A15, A14 are a mystery. Is there a way to switch banks by writing to an I/O port? Location? Can any of you help with an explanation how this works and how I might use the switches? Thanks in advance, Mike From nerdware at ctgonline.org Thu Aug 22 12:15:59 2002 From: nerdware at ctgonline.org (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Paging Paul Braun In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3D64220F.25955.42F85A39@localhost> OK, I'll try. I talked to my email admin and he shows no denials for siconic...... I'm stumped on this one. However, in the meantime, I believe I solved my dilemma and will keep the machine in question. thanks for trying. > > Paul Braun, my e-mail to you keeps bouncing. > > Contact me once you fix whatever ails your mail server. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------- International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * > Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Aug 22 12:16:15 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Microsoft vs Lindows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02Aug22.131656edt.119119@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >I have some old (late seventies/early eighties) computer graphics books that >have entire chapters on windows. What about the Lisa. It came out in 1983, >but I'm assuming that Apple used the term 'window' to describe it's >interface prior to it's actual release. What about TopView? Was it pre 1983? >Probably not. When I was researching the timeline for my site, I came up with the following dates for TopView: November 1983 - already in development when MS approaches IBM about Windows. August 1984 - IBM formally announced TopView February 1985 - TopView released Compare this to the Windows 1.0 announcement in June 1985 and it's release in November 1985, though MS had announced working on it as far back as November 1983. Late '83 is also when MS and IBM began developing OS/2. Also interesting to note are the dates for GEM (announced fall 1984) and DESQview 1.0 (released July 1985). I liked DESQview...used it all the time to run Telix as a background task for file downloads and such while having Rbase or Wordstar running in the foreground. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Aug 22 12:17:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Reseating chips In-Reply-To: <002101c249fe$14dddb80$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Bob Lafleur wrote: > How many of you remember the problem of chips coming unseated in older > computers (like the PET) and having to push all the chips down as the > equipment ages? also Apple ][ > Does anyone know any tricks to keep this problem from occuring? I fear > I'm going to have to do this a lot now, especially with the vibrations > of playing the keys. Best solution? unsolder all of the crummy sockets, and replace them with Augat gold plated michined sockets. Kinda a lot of work. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Aug 22 12:22:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Reseating chips Message-ID: <200208221722.KAA17031@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Bob Lafleur" >> >How many of you remember the problem of chips coming unseated in older >computers (like the PET) and having to push all the chips down as the >equipment ages? > >I've now got this problem with my Kurzweil MIDIBOARD (a 6502-based MIDI >keyboard controller). A few months ago I had to open it and reseat all >the chips. Now I have to do it again. > >Does anyone know any tricks to keep this problem from occuring? I fear >I'm going to have to do this a lot now, especially with the vibrations >of playing the keys. > >Thanks for any tips. > > - Bob > > Hi Bob Two things. First, straighten the pins so they don't bow outwards. This is the most important step. For some reason that I've never figured out, the tension on the pins causes then to want to be out of the sockets, even though, you'd think it would tend to hold them in. The second thing will help for good contact and that is to use a silicon grease, like Dow Corning #4, on the pin leads. I've been told the Permatex dielectric grease is the same thing and I've used a product call Silglyde. Although, it is called a grease, it has poor lubrication properties but it will cause parts the come out with spring tension to come out easier, I've not seen problems with the leads straightened and the part weight being the only factor. Dwight From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Aug 22 12:25:01 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Reseating chips In-Reply-To: <002101c249fe$14dddb80$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020822132301.02ba0e70@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Bob Lafleur may have mentioned these words: >How many of you remember the problem of chips coming unseated in older >computers (like the PET) and having to push all the chips down as the >equipment ages? Yes, a friend of mine likes to remind me that the standard repair tactic for the Atari ST line was pick up the machine about 6 inches from the counter & drop it... >I've now got this problem with my Kurzweil MIDIBOARD (a 6502-based MIDI >keyboard controller). A few months ago I had to open it and reseat all the >chips. Now I have to do it again. > >Does anyone know any tricks to keep this problem from occuring? I fear I'm >going to have to do this a lot now, especially with the vibrations of >playing the keys. Solder??? ;-) Seriously, 1 thing you can do that may improve (but not totally fix) the problem *fairly easily*, is remove the chip[s] from their socket, noting their orientation, and gently clean the legs of the chips with a white eraser, then replace. That might extend the amount of time between chip resocketting... The only way I know to totally fix the problem without soldering the chips directly to the board, is to remove the chips, desolder the cheap single/dual wipe sockets, and install the more expensive ( & reliable) machine-turned pin sockets, then reinstall the chips. That should eliminate the problem entirely, or maybe a reseat every coupla decades... HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 22 12:40:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Reseating chips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020822173950.70723.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > Best solution? unsolder all of the crummy sockets, and replace them with > Augat gold plated michined sockets. Kinda a lot of work. Speaking of which, does anyone know of any surplus sources of said sockets? I have enough 20-pin and 24-pin turned-pin sockets to do the projects I need to do (like my GG2 Bus+), but I'm perpetually short of 14 and 16-pin sockets (as well as 28-pin and 40-pin). I picked up a handful (all they had) of some 16-pin sockets at Dayton this year at a price of several-for-a-dollar. If I could find 14 and 16-pin sockets at $0.10 each in quantity, I'd buy hundreds. Oh... just realizing the possibility for confusion - I need solder-tail sockets, not wire-wrap sockets. I _have_ a lifetime supply of turned- pin DIP WW sockets of all sizes (up to 64-pin). I would expect WW sockets to cost more than soldertail. So... at the moment, the price to beat is 3/$1.35 (B.G.Micro). I'm sure I can do better at Dayton next year, but that's 9 months away. I could really use a few dozen right now to finish upgrading the RAM in my stack of DEC Professionals (the daughter cards have 16 DRAMs each - two per Pro350, 1 per Pro380 - remove old 4164s, add 41256s and install two jumpers). I have enough sockets for one daughter daughter card. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com From jamesl at bestweb.net Thu Aug 22 12:52:00 2002 From: jamesl at bestweb.net (James E. LaBarre) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP documentation) References: <20020822135010.10450.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> <3D6508FC.3040608@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3D6524AB.4030709@bestweb.net> Ben Franchuk wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > >> >> True. But paper listings are the most durable of all. In the distant >> future, we'll still have eyes and fingers even if we migrate away from >> pushing electrons through semiconductors for fun/profit. > > Hmm computers using the ever popular 12AX7. :) How about barcodes on microfiche? The first page would be an indesx of what the rest of the codes are for, or how the encoding is done. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Aug 22 13:00:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: chip pinout help In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020822010017.021c58b0@postoffice.pacbell.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020821220309.021a29b0@postoffice.pacbell.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020821220309.021a29b0@postoffice.pacbell.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020822010017.021c58b0@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: <14953.207.55.102.175.1030039197.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Hmm, but then how is translation done on the inputs to the ROM? It is > a TTL device feeding the address, so the 0-5v swing (0.5v to 4+v) > swing would appear to be an input swing of +15 to +20. No translation required. PMOS thresholds are within a few volts of the positive rail. From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Aug 22 13:13:00 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: DEC MMJ vs. 131 MMJ Message-ID: <002201c24a07$b9a63820$023ca8c0@blafleur> Is there a difference between "DEC MMJ" and "131 MMJ" or are they two different names for the same thing? - Bob From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Aug 22 13:16:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Wanted: Cromemco assistance In-Reply-To: <20020822140225.42306.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020822140225.42306.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <14963.207.55.102.175.1030040147.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Ethan wrote: > You are probably thinking of the TM100s that shipped with Kaypros > and IBM 5150 PCs. There's a (if _I_ remember correctly) model TM100-2 > and a TM100-4, SSSD and DSSD. Someone here on the list, I think, has > the ROMs for a Kaypro-4 to let it use DSSD drives. My recollection of common 5.25-inch drives (which could be wrong) was: Tandon Teac full-ht half-ht specs use TM100-1 FD55-A SS, 48 TPI early PC single-sided, 160/180K TM100-2 FD55-B DS, 48 TPI PC 320K/360K TM100-3 FD55-E SS, 96 TPI not found in PCs TM100-4 FD55-F DS, 96 TPI not found in PCs TM200 SS, 500 Kbps, 96 TPI not found in PCs TM201 FD55-G DS 500 Kbps 96 TPI not found in PCs, similar to but not interchangeable with the later 1.2M PC/AT drives FD55-GF DS 500 Kbps 96 TPI, 300/360 RPM 1.2M PC/AT 48 TPI drives are speced for 40 tracks, 96 TPI for 80 tracks. The TM200 and TM201 were rare; I'm not sure if they ever actually made it into volume production, although I had data sheets on them at one time. I've always wondered what happened to the FD55-C and FD55-D. The FD55-GF is apparently still in production, but the other FD55 models are long gone. I've been looking for NOS FD55-B drives, but haven't seen any in quite a while. From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Aug 22 13:18:00 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: DEC MMJ vs. 131 MMJ In-Reply-To: <002201c24a07$b9a63820$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <002301c24a08$56e46e40$023ca8c0@blafleur> > Is there a difference between "DEC MMJ" and "131 MMJ" or are they two different names for the same thing? Ouch! My error. I read "131 MMJ connectors" as meaning a TYPE of MMJ connector. It is actually referring to the NUMBER of MMJ connectors. SORRY for the stupid post. - Bob From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Aug 22 13:22:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Any sources for used raised flooring? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <14970.207.55.102.175.1030040517.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > FOR IMMEDIATE SALE: > > 4500 pieces of ACCESS COMPUTER FLOORING > Severn/Concept 2000 > with understructure and aluminum floor jacks. Make Offer. Cool, I've been wanting to buy some of this for a long time. Unfortunately it shows up exactly when I have no money. Oh well. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Thu Aug 22 13:28:01 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Pin-outs for VT220 Message-ID: >Did you ever get the Pin Out Diagram for the VT220 Serial Connection Port? > >I am currently in the same boat that you were, and can find little or no >references anywhere? You can look on the DFWCUG website http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm and pick up a number of VT220 docs (the VT220 printset is on its way too ...). You can probably find more at http://www.vt100.net too. However, the EIA connector is just exactly what you would expect ( 2-TX, 3-RX, 4-RTS, 5-CTS, 6-DSR, 7-GND, 20-DTR) isn't it? Antonio From curt at atari-history.com Thu Aug 22 13:59:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Wanted: Cromemco assistance References: <3a92738d08.38d083a927@bigpond.com> <003701c2498f$e2210140$01000001@cvendel> <14045.207.55.102.175.1030001348.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <004b01c24a0d$b9b2faa0$01000001@cvendel> Hi Eric, Actually I have the boards for the 800 Development system, here are some photo's of them. No these are definitely 2600 Emulation boards as they say it right on the boards, some custom sheetmetal face plates were made for the switches, joystick ports and rf out on the board to test the games. http://www.atari-history.com/800-d.html If you'd like to see the Stella emulator gear, let me know, I'll send them to you in a priv email. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Smith" To: Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 3:29 AM Subject: Re: Wanted: Cromemco assistance > Curt Vendel wrote: > > > I am planning on purchasing a Cromemco Z-2 system shortly, it has some > > special purpose Atari designed boards installed and was used within > > Atari to develop Atari 2600 VCS games. However the unit is missing > > the front cover, disk drive and OS software. If anyone can point me > > to a site(s) with good information on the systems and anyone who may > > have spare parts to sell like boards, keyboard and so forth, please let > > me know, thanks. > > Are you sure it was for 2600 development? The ones that I've heard of > were for 400/800 development. Basically they had the Atari 400/800 > circuitry grafted onto an S100 bus. There was a 6502 CPU card. The > system had the POKEY, ANTIC, and CTIA chips, but I don't recall whether > they were on the CPU card or a separate card. The memory card was a > standard S100 card. In principle, you would be able to run at least > some of the regular Atari 400/800 software on it. The disk controller > in the system was for development use only, and was NOT compatible with > any regular Atari disk controller, although you could write a handler > for it, and perhaps Atari had one. But you could hook up an 810, 1050, > or the like just as with a "normal" Atari. And of course the EPROM > programmer was not a standard Atari 400/800 feature. > About ten years ago, I bought a binder full of docs on the 400/800 > dev system from Weird Stuff Warehouse. Unfortunately the system itself > was nowhere to be seen, so either it had already sold, or was in the back > warehouse somewhere, or (less likely) Weird Stuff only got the docs. > I still have the binder. It's somewhere in a collection of about 400 > Conticos and boxes, and I don't know which one. Eventually I'll find it > and get the stuff scanned. > > But if what you have was really for 2600 development, I don't know > anything about it. Given how early the 2600 was developed, I'm dubious > that they would have used S100 gear, but it's possible. > > > > From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Aug 22 14:03:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Reseating chips References: <002101c249fe$14dddb80$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <3D6535C9.4040702@tiac.net> This problem is common with lower-quality IC sockets. Sockets that do not use the fancy machined-pin contacts have a upwards spring-force against each pin. Add thermal cycles, and the chips will start creeping out of the socket. Part of the problem is mechanical creep, but oxidation is also a factor, as the sockets that exhibit this problem are tin-plae phosphor-bronze. Gold-clad sockets don't generally fail this way, and the round pin (Augat style) socket pins basically never fail. Bob Lafleur wrote: >How many of you remember the problem of chips coming unseated in older >computers (like the PET) and having to push all the chips down as the >equipment ages? > >I've now got this problem with my Kurzweil MIDIBOARD (a 6502-based MIDI >keyboard controller). A few months ago I had to open it and reseat all >the chips. Now I have to do it again. > >Does anyone know any tricks to keep this problem from occuring? I fear >I'm going to have to do this a lot now, especially with the vibrations >of playing the keys. > >Thanks for any tips. > > - Bob > > From foo at siconic.com Thu Aug 22 14:05:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Wanted: Cromemco assistance In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > I have various versions of Cromix on 5.25" and 8" disks, but will have to > > dig these out, and the chances of this happening in the next 2 months is > > close to zero :( Is that what they used for these systems, or did they > > use CP/M? In that case, again, I have the OS, but it will take a while to > > dig them out. > > They also used CP/M. > There were a couple of different Cromemco CP/M formats SS, DS, .... > They made some dual processor systems Z80 + 68000, for a LOT more money > than the Radio Shack model 16 (a cheap dual processor) I'm wondering what the development environment was for the system that Curt has. Curt, if you didn't get any software with the machine, how are you going to get the Atari specific functions of the machine working again? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Aug 22 14:14:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Any sources for used raised flooring? In-Reply-To: <14970.207.55.102.175.1030040517.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > > FOR IMMEDIATE SALE: > > > > 4500 pieces of ACCESS COMPUTER FLOORING > > Severn/Concept 2000 > > with understructure and aluminum floor jacks. Make Offer. > > Cool, I've been wanting to buy some of this for a long time. > Unfortunately it shows up exactly when I have no money. Oh > well. This is the same stuff that I got from LLNL that is currently piled up on my side yard. 300 pieces will go to the ACCRC for our computer museum floor, and the rest will go to scrap or to whomever will come and take them for $1 a piece (volume discounts available ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Aug 22 15:34:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: chip pinout help Message-ID: <200208222033.NAA17160@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Eric Smith" > >> Hmm, but then how is translation done on the inputs to the ROM? It is >> a TTL device feeding the address, so the 0-5v swing (0.5v to 4+v) >> swing would appear to be an input swing of +15 to +20. > >No translation required. PMOS thresholds are within a few volts of the >positive rail. > > > > Hi The only issue with PMOS is on the outputs. They may not pull down as hard as a TTL input pulls up. This is generally fixed with a pull down resistor and/or a diode to limit the negative travel. Some TTL can tolerate some negative on the input, most CMOS can't ( I think the 4049 can though ). Dwight From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 22 15:49:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: chip pinout help In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020821220309.021a29b0@postoffice.pacbell.net> from "Jim Battle" at Aug 21, 2 10:19:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2004 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020822/380ea418/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 22 15:49:31 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP documentation) In-Reply-To: <3D6524AB.4030709@bestweb.net> from "James E. LaBarre" at Aug 22, 2 01:51:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 407 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020822/287a3f43/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 22 15:49:57 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP documentation) In-Reply-To: <3D6508FC.3040608@jetnet.ab.ca> from "Ben Franchuk" at Aug 22, 2 09:53:32 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 664 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020822/935c053b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 22 15:50:14 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Reseating chips In-Reply-To: <002101c249fe$14dddb80$023ca8c0@blafleur> from "Bob Lafleur" at Aug 22, 2 01:05:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 529 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020822/c12c7e24/attachment.ksh From dan at ekoan.com Thu Aug 22 16:10:00 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Video toaster and add-on cards Message-ID: <888E2A50-B613-11D6-A9C3-000393903ABA@ekoan.com> Hello, I just picked up an Amiga Video Toaster (just the CPU unit). Inside on the left are the video toaster cards, but the two right-most slots have full length cards made by Digital Processing Systems Inc. The cards are daisy chained to a connector on the motherboard. Each card has four BNC connectors, a 5-pin DIN, an RJ-11 jack and a three-position switch on the rear slot panel. The back side of each card is covered with a full-length aluminum shield. The only identifying numbers I've found, besides the FCC ID, is "743-770", then "PT2 REV-3, Made in Canada". There is also a Supra memory card with 6 MB (three of four rows populated) and an A2091 hard card. I haven't tried to boot this yet since I need to locate an Amiga keyboard, but I'd be interested to know if anyone has any documentation on the Digital Processing Systems cards. Thanks! Cheers, Dan From donm at cts.com Thu Aug 22 16:25:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: HDDs (was Re: PowerUser external SCSI HD In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020821231451.04247e10@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > At 09:59 PM 8/21/02 +0100, you wrote: > > >Anyone ever heard of a now-defunct drive maker called Kalok > > Yup, wasn't that formed by some former Seagate techs? Apparently by the chap who was primarily responsible for the ST-225, but Jugi Tandon took him over. The site at www.redhill.net.au/d-a.html has an interesting presentation on a number of older drives - Kalok included. - don From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Aug 22 16:30:01 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Video toaster and add-on cards In-Reply-To: <888E2A50-B613-11D6-A9C3-000393903ABA@ekoan.com> References: <888E2A50-B613-11D6-A9C3-000393903ABA@ekoan.com> Message-ID: >I just picked up an Amiga Video Toaster (just the CPU unit). Inside on the >left are the video toaster cards, but the two right-most slots have >full length >cards made by Digital Processing Systems Inc. The cards are daisy >chained to a connector on the motherboard. Each card has four BNC >connectors, a 5-pin DIN, an RJ-11 jack and a three-position switch on the >rear slot panel. The back side of each card is covered with a full-length >aluminum shield. The only identifying numbers I've found, besides the >FCC ID, is "743-770", then "PT2 REV-3, Made in Canada". Good score. The boards sound like the TBC IV or TBC IV Plus. The BNC's should be: video in, video out, timing in, timing out. The RJ-11 should be the serial connection and the 5-pin DIN should be the S-video in. You could supposedly have up to four of these boards daisychained together. Of course, I could be wrong That's what it sounds like though. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Aug 22 16:57:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: HDDs (was Re: PowerUser external SCSI HD References: Message-ID: <012801c24a26$820e8ec0$0100000a@deepspacenine> Don Maslin wrote: > On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: >> Yup, wasn't that formed by some former Seagate techs? > Apparently by the chap who was primarily responsible for the ST-225, > but Jugi Tandon took him over. The site at > www.redhill.net.au/d-a.html has an interesting presentation on a > number of older drives - Kalok included. Oh, yes. The Kalok Octagon. I hated those things. I lost access to a school computer lab for an entire term due to the untimely failure of one of these things fitted in an Acorn Archimedes A310. Here's the story: I was peacefully sitting at the A310 during my lunch break, headphones plugged in, playing Lemmings. Then it happened. The sound stopped. The machine went glacial (highly unusual for an Acorn). I took off my headphones and I heard this almighty SCREEEEEEECH, followed by "clunk-CLAK... clunk-CLAAAAAK... clunk-whirr....". IT tech came through, asked for the story. Her response? "These drives don't fail for nothing. You must have hit the machine or something". The drive was duly pulled out and replaced. It was only 8mnths old. Later that week I was told that I was not to touch any computer in the school, period. That lasted for the rest of the term. I left at the end of the term anyway. I almost went mad without my daily Lemmings fix :-( If there's one person/team I want to attack with a LART, it's the one who designed the Kalok Octagon... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ PGP Key ID: 0x0E18C95F PGP Key Fingerprint: 2741 5CB7 1D45 6F77 D1FC FA3D 7A87 2DA4 0E18 C95F From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Aug 22 17:11:00 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP documentation) In-Reply-To: References: <3D6524AB.4030709@bestweb.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020822170629.02548000@pc> At 09:28 PM 8/22/2002 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: >I've just spent a few days attempting to read some old HP41 barcode >programs from the UK HP club journal. Suffice it to say that poor >printing and/or badly produced barcode in the first place can make life >very tedious. >While it's doubtlessly possible to recover marginal barcode, it's not >totally trivial. I wonder if someone has produced a software program to read the barcodes embedded within text, as part of a larger OCR program. - John From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 22 17:32:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: Any sources for used raised flooring? In-Reply-To: <14970.207.55.102.175.1030040517.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <20020822223153.34765.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Smith wrote: > > FOR IMMEDIATE SALE: > > > > 4500 pieces of ACCESS COMPUTER FLOORING > > Severn/Concept 2000 > > with understructure and aluminum floor jacks. Make Offer. > > Cool, I've been wanting to buy some of this for a long time. > Unfortunately it shows up exactly when I have no money. Oh > well. At 4 sq ft per tile, typically, that's a *lot* of floor, especially if they want an all-or-nothing offer. I have 450 pieces of steel raised floor (recyclers don't want steel) that I'll be installing in the outbuilding at my farm at some point. No, it's not available. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Aug 22 17:38:01 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:47 2005 Subject: HDDs (was Re: PowerUser external SCSI HD In-Reply-To: <012801c24a26$820e8ec0$0100000a@deepspacenine> Message-ID: > If there's one person/team I want to attack with a LART, it's the one who > designed the Kalok Octagon... > I'd go after the stupid bint that knows fsck all about hard drives. "IT person" my ass. :) .g From foo at siconic.com Thu Aug 22 18:11:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: HDDs (was Re: PowerUser external SCSI HD In-Reply-To: <012801c24a26$820e8ec0$0100000a@deepspacenine> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Oh, yes. The Kalok Octagon. I hated those things. I lost access to a school > computer lab for an entire term due to the untimely failure of one of these > things fitted in an Acorn Archimedes A310. Here's the story: > I was peacefully sitting at the A310 during my lunch break, headphones > plugged in, playing Lemmings. Then it happened. The sound stopped. The > machine went glacial (highly unusual for an Acorn). I took off my headphones > and I heard this almighty SCREEEEEEECH, followed by "clunk-CLAK... > clunk-CLAAAAAK... clunk-whirr....". IT tech came through, asked for the > story. Her response? "These drives don't fail for nothing. You must have hit > the machine or something". The drive was duly pulled out and replaced. It > was only 8mnths old. Later that week I was told that I was not to touch any > computer in the school, period. That lasted for the rest of the term. I left > at the end of the term anyway. I almost went mad without my daily Lemmings > fix :-( > If there's one person/team I want to attack with a LART, it's the one who > designed the Kalok Octagon... The first person I would want to LART is the bitch that would kick me off the computers for the rest of the term ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Aug 22 18:14:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Thanks Jeff was Re: Great finds at Auction Today and at Thrift References: <200208211633.JAA16282@clulw009.amd.com> <02Aug22.092414edt.119339@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <014801c24a31$860172d0$36000240@oemcomputer> Found out today that the store had TWO cocktail units for sale the day I got the missile command table. The second one was back behind some furniture and I missed it. Left the auction and ran to the store but it was gone. The guy told me it was a different game on it and that he plugged it in and it would not power on. Now I know to look everywhere in this store.:-( ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 11:47 AM Subject: Re: Thanks Jeff was Re: Great finds at Auction Today and at Thrift > >Hi > > Cocktails are fun. One can often convince the > >significant other that these are really just tables > >and should be part of the household furniture. > >Dwight > > You don't see that many cocktail units, compared to uprights, > since they were used mainly in bars and restraunts. I'd like to > eventually get a Zaxxon unit but would settle for John's if he ever > decides to part with it > > Jeff > -- > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.cchaven.com > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Aug 22 18:40:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Video toaster and add-on cards References: <888E2A50-B613-11D6-A9C3-000393903ABA@ekoan.com> Message-ID: <3D65756F.212D5BB9@ccp.com> Dan Veeneman wrote: > > Hello, > > I just picked up an Amiga Video Toaster (just the CPU unit). Inside on > the > left are the video toaster cards, but the two right-most slots have > full length > cards made by Digital Processing Systems Inc. The cards are daisy > chained to a connector on the motherboard. Each card has four BNC > connectors, a 5-pin DIN, an RJ-11 jack and a three-position switch on > the > rear slot panel. The back side of each card is covered with a > full-length > aluminum shield. The only identifying numbers I've found, besides the > FCC ID, is "743-770", then "PT2 REV-3, Made in Canada". > > There is also a Supra memory card with 6 MB (three of four rows > populated) and an A2091 hard card. > > I haven't tried to boot this yet since I need to locate an Amiga > keyboard, > but I'd be interested to know if anyone has any documentation on the > Digital Processing Systems cards. Thanks! > > Cheers, > > Dan Those two cards are time base correctors for video tape machines to play into the Toaster. BTW you can boot the CPU w/o a keyboard, you just can't do much without it. An RGB monitor that syncs to 15 kHz would be nice, but for now if you have a composite video monitor, just plug it into the RCA jack on the back labeled VIDEO out, should have a yellow insulator. Keep your eyes peeled for which WB version you have. If it has a basic looking background and crude disk icons that is 1.3; if it is a grey background and nicer looiking icons, it is probably Kickstart 2.04 or 3.x, which is not altogether that common. I have a bunch of toasters, 2091 SCSI controller cards, etc. and sorry to say they aren't worth much on the used market since there are no NEW Amigas being built to put them in. The keyboard alone is about $60, but you can use a PC keyboard with an adapter which runs about $50. Check with www.softhut.com for the adapters. Hope you don't have much money in it. Since it is incomplete, the cost of making it whole will probably exceed the value of the Amiga/Toaster together. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Aug 22 18:57:00 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Video toaster and add-on cards In-Reply-To: <3D65756F.212D5BB9@ccp.com> References: <888E2A50-B613-11D6-A9C3-000393903ABA@ekoan.com> <3D65756F.212D5BB9@ccp.com> Message-ID: >Those two cards are time base correctors for video tape machines to play >into the Toaster. My A3000's an ex-Toaster machine...you can tell by the hacked rear panel at the video slot. It no longer has the Toaster installed though. It does have a GVP TBCplus installed...kind of cool in that instead of the multiple BNC/RCA/DIN connectors crammed onto the end of the expansion card it has a single DB-25 connector that a 10-headed cable plugs up to. Makes it a lot easier to switch connectors as well. I don't think it was quite as good a card as the DPS units but it supposedly could be used to convert signals between NTSC and PAL on the fly as well as crude video capture. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From blstuart at bellsouth.net Thu Aug 22 21:55:01 2002 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP documentation) In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:07:20 -0500 . <5.0.0.25.0.20020822170629.02548000@pc> Message-ID: In message <5.0.0.25.0.20020822170629.02548000@pc>, John Foust writes: >At 09:28 PM 8/22/2002 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: >>I've just spent a few days attempting to read some old HP41 barcode >>programs from the UK HP club journal. Suffice it to say that poor >>printing and/or badly produced barcode in the first place can make life >>very tedious. >>While it's doubtlessly possible to recover marginal barcode, it's not >>totally trivial. > >I wonder if someone has produced a software program to read the >barcodes embedded within text, as part of a larger OCR program. I'm not sure about end-user packages, but I work with some OCR libraries that do barcode decoding as well. For that matter, I've written a Code128 decoder at work. Once you know how wide the spaces and bars are, the decoding is pretty easy. Determining those widths turns out to be trickier than you'd expect. Brian L. Stuart From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Aug 23 00:20:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: HDDs (was Re: PowerUser external SCSI HD References: Message-ID: <001e01c24a64$5eceee80$0100000a@deepspacenine> Sellam Ismail wrote: > The first person I would want to LART is the bitch that would kick me > off the computers for the rest of the term ;) I'm planning to LART her anyway :-) Incidentally, I did still have access to one of the computers - an Acorn BBC "Model B"... I was barred from using the Acorn A-series machines though. Not that we had many of those... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ PGP Key ID: 0x0E18C95F PGP Key Fingerprint: 2741 5CB7 1D45 6F77 D1FC FA3D 7A87 2DA4 0E18 C95F From frustum at pacbell.net Fri Aug 23 01:05:00 2002 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: chip pinout help In-Reply-To: <200208222033.NAA17160@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020822230203.021c7e50@postoffice.pacbell.net> At 01:33 PM 8/22/02 -0700, you wrote: > >From: "Eric Smith" > > > >> Hmm, but then how is translation done on the inputs to the ROM? It is > >> a TTL device feeding the address, so the 0-5v swing (0.5v to 4+v) > >> swing would appear to be an input swing of +15 to +20. > > > >No translation required. PMOS thresholds are within a few volts of the > >positive rail. > > > > > > > > > >Hi > The only issue with PMOS is on the outputs. They >may not pull down as hard as a TTL input pulls up. >This is generally fixed with a pull down resistor >and/or a diode to limit the negative travel. Some >TTL can tolerate some negative on the input, most >CMOS can't ( I think the 4049 can though ). >Dwight Ah, master, you are precisely right. The circuit pulls down with 6.8K to the -V. Still, I'm surprised that 74xx inputs will take the output (I'm assuming that the PMOS outputs ran rail to rail). There is a clamp diode on the input of 74xx devices, but with a >10V difference, I'd expect either the driver or receiving clamp diode to complain. This is all just for my education -- the board does exactly that and I've learned that empirical proof takes priority over my speculations. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Aug 23 03:10:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Reseating chips In-Reply-To: <200208221722.KAA17031@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > The second thing will help for good contact and that is to use a silicon > grease, like Dow Corning #4, on the pin leads. I've been told the > Permatex dielectric grease is the same thing and I've used a product > call Silglyde. Although, it is called a grease, it has poor lubrication > properties but it will cause parts the come out with spring tension to > come out easier, I've not seen problems with the leads straightened and > the part weight being the only factor. I wonder if that would work similar to something like Stabilant 22? I've been tempted to try using that product for IC sockets, but really haven't had the need yet. -Toth From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Aug 23 08:05:01 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: HP 1000 References: <3.0.6.16.20020820102451.57aff9f4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <004b01c24aa5$9367ae20$9701a8c0@kwcorp.com> FYI (doing a happy snoopy dance right now..)... I did wind up winning the bid on those TWO HP1000E systems with 7906 MAC (non HPIB) drives in nice racks. I'm still drooling *GRIN* I can't tell for sure from the pics, but looks like two identical racks. Each one is a 1000E cpu, 7906D drive, 13037x external disc controller. There might be a memory and/or I/O expansion chassis there too. What fun! This brings my total number of 7900/7905/7906 type drives to 6. Geeze, I better get rid of a few before the wife starts yelling about the space in the basement. That is good Preventative Maintenance right? *Grin* Jay West > That looks like a good one. I see that it includes a removable hard drive. > > Joe > > At 10:02 PM 8/19/02 -0700, you wrote: > >There is a huge HP 1000 gov't surplus rack available near > >Harrisburg, PA. Here's a pic: > > > >http://home.earthlink.net/~wmsmith/HP1000.jpg > > > >Contact me for details if interested. > > > >-W > > > > > > > > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From pcw at mesanet.com Fri Aug 23 10:18:01 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: chip pinout help In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020822230203.021c7e50@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Jim Battle wrote: > At 01:33 PM 8/22/02 -0700, you wrote: > > >From: "Eric Smith" > > > > > >> Hmm, but then how is translation done on the inputs to the ROM? It is > > >> a TTL device feeding the address, so the 0-5v swing (0.5v to 4+v) > > >> swing would appear to be an input swing of +15 to +20. > > > > > >No translation required. PMOS thresholds are within a few volts of the > > >positive rail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hi > > The only issue with PMOS is on the outputs. They > >may not pull down as hard as a TTL input pulls up. > >This is generally fixed with a pull down resistor > >and/or a diode to limit the negative travel. Some > >TTL can tolerate some negative on the input, most > >CMOS can't ( I think the 4049 can though ). > >Dwight > > Ah, master, you are precisely right. The circuit pulls down with 6.8K to > the -V. Still, I'm surprised that 74xx inputs will take the output (I'm > assuming that the PMOS outputs ran rail to rail). There is a clamp diode > on the input of 74xx devices, but with a >10V difference, I'd expect either > the driver or receiving clamp diode to complain. It is also possible the the PMOS outputs are open drain so the current from the pulldown resistor is all that the clamp-diode sees... > > This is all just for my education -- the board does exactly that and I've > learned that empirical proof takes priority over my speculations. > > ----- > Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net > > Peter Wallace From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Aug 23 10:20:24 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: HP 1000 Message-ID: Lucky! I just have a 1000E CPU that doesn't work, a paper tape reader (sans interface), and the external MAC controller box (no cables or drives). Will J _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Aug 23 10:26:00 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: HP 1000 References: Message-ID: <00d801c24ab9$50ecda20$9701a8c0@kwcorp.com> Will wrote.... > Lucky! I just have a 1000E CPU that doesn't work, a paper tape reader (sans > interface), and the external MAC controller box (no cables or drives). I'm fairly sure some of my drives will become available soon. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Fri Aug 23 12:34:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: chip pinout help Message-ID: <200208231733.KAA17392@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Peter C. Wallace" > >On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Jim Battle wrote: > >> At 01:33 PM 8/22/02 -0700, you wrote: >> > >From: "Eric Smith" >> > > >> > >> Hmm, but then how is translation done on the inputs to the ROM? It is >> > >> a TTL device feeding the address, so the 0-5v swing (0.5v to 4+v) >> > >> swing would appear to be an input swing of +15 to +20. >> > > >> > >No translation required. PMOS thresholds are within a few volts of the >> > >positive rail. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >Hi >> > The only issue with PMOS is on the outputs. They >> >may not pull down as hard as a TTL input pulls up. >> >This is generally fixed with a pull down resistor >> >and/or a diode to limit the negative travel. Some >> >TTL can tolerate some negative on the input, most >> >CMOS can't ( I think the 4049 can though ). >> >Dwight >> >> Ah, master, you are precisely right. The circuit pulls down with 6.8K to >> the -V. Still, I'm surprised that 74xx inputs will take the output (I'm >> assuming that the PMOS outputs ran rail to rail). There is a clamp diode >> on the input of 74xx devices, but with a >10V difference, I'd expect either >> the driver or receiving clamp diode to complain. > > It is also possible the the PMOS outputs are open drain so the current >from the pulldown resistor is all that the clamp-diode sees... The PMOS doesn't pull down vary hard. It is usually in the order of a milliamp. It is hardly enough to cause problems for a signal diode that are usually rated at 50 ma. It might be open drain but even so, the pulldown is usually small enough that, to interface to TTL ( that has an effective pull up on it's input ), one has to add more pull down to get it to work well. This is why the resistor. The diode is just to limit the swing. The voltage is then across the resistor and any small pull of the PMOS. The pulldown of the PMOS is a constant current type so it can be clamped without doing damage. Dwight > > >> >> This is all just for my education -- the board does exactly that and I've >> learned that empirical proof takes priority over my speculations. >> >> ----- >> Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net >> >> > >Peter Wallace > > > From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Aug 23 13:04:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Bad Drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3D66320B.11917.2F48890@localhost> Isn't bad drives Kaypros biggest shortcoming ? I have a Kaypro II and a Kaypro 2X Neither one is functioning because of drive faults. My greatest frustration tho are the Atari ST drives. I remember back in the early 90s having to leave my ST idle for about 6 months because I couldn't afford the Atari dealers overpriced replacement. Otherwise the ST is still one of my favorite machines. Right now I have about 4, and several part machines. I am presently reduced to using an external drive since none of the internal drives are functioning. I wonder if Sam Tramiel did a similar outsourcing as the Kaypro 10, buying production rejects. Lawrence > > I was working for a rat-hole computer store when the Kaypro 10s debuted > - Kaypro made a deal with Lal Tandon to buy 10MB drives made (IIRC) in > Mother India - at any rate the 10s of that vintage had about an 80% DOA > rate. > > You could (and I did, on numerous occasions) show up in the reception > area of Kaypro in San Diego lugging a 10, and someone would bring you out > a new one on a box, that had been burned-in... no questions asked, just > "Sorry for the inconveience, here's a new one under warranty." > > They had a big tent set up in the parking lot complete with mobile > air conditioners to handle all the re-work. It was truly a nightmare. > > These were from the batch where you could pay extra to have your unit > 'personalized': it was supposed to be a mark of distinction that you had > an expensive portable computer with your name tastefully inlaid. What > happened in practice was the last guy on the production line took one of > those vibrating-carbide-stylus things and scrawled whatever was on the > invoice all over the back plate - never mind the paint or the > silk-screening.... it's funny, now... > > > AND - my 1988 Mac SE30 came with a CMS internal HD, complete with a nice > copy of nVir - courtesy of a disgruntled quality-control tech at CMS. It > would replicate itself at intervals and grab the speaker and say "Don't > Panic" in that early MacInTalk voice. Then at some point it would say > "Now Panic!" and trash your HD. Pretty tame as virii go today, back then > the store I bought it from had to shut down for two days while they > disinfected every machine and disk in the joint. Mine included. And I > just recently found the original invoice for that machine, which looks > down on me now from the shelf where it sits in snug reirement; it used to > run my music studio. > > Cheers > > John > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From ipscone at msdsite.com Fri Aug 23 13:20:01 2002 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Cromemco 64KZ In-Reply-To: <200208231733.KAA17392@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3D6618FB.20055.720316@localhost> Still looking for info on the Cromemco 64Kz. Details needed at: http://www.msdsite.com/vcomp/cromemco/photos.html Thanks From mhscc at canada.com Fri Aug 23 14:29:00 2002 From: mhscc at canada.com (MHStein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Sanyo MBC-555 - help? Message-ID: <005101c24adb$a7034da0$cceb059a@msed03> I've got one of these cuties (monochrome monitor), but no software or docs. Disk spins on power up, but no text at all on screen; have tried PC-DOS 1.0 through 3.3, but no message of any sort. Is this normal with a non-Sanyo disk, or does it have a problem? Anybody have a boot disk, and if so, can it be tele-disked or would I need the physical diskette? TIA, m ------------------------------------------- Introducing NetZero Long Distance Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month! Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com From mhscc at canada.com Fri Aug 23 14:33:05 2002 From: mhscc at canada.com (MHStein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Cromemco 64KZ Info Needed Message-ID: <005201c24adb$a93c74c0$cceb059a@msed03> The 64KZ is organized as two 32K Blocks (not 16); the A15 switches control whether that block is in the lower or upper half of the 64K range. Reset out disables that block after a reset to allow the boot ROM to use that space on power up. Override & DMA are only relevant for DMA operations. Bank switching is done by outputting a byte to 40H (this address is set by a jumper block/PROM): bit 0 = bank 0, etc., and each block's bank(s) are of course set with SW2 & SW3. Good luck; I've got a manual somewhere that I could scan if you haven't already gotten one elsewhere, but probably not this weekend. Email me off-list if I can help. m -----------------Original Message---------------- From: "Mike Davis" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 21:48:17 -0700 Subject: Cromemco 64KZ Info Needed Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Hope this is not a duplicate. The first one did not show up. I have just obtained a Cromemco 64KZ board. This has 64K of RAM and I'd like to test this out this weekend. Unfortunately, I don't have any documentation. There are 4 banks of RAM (16K x 8) Each bank is labeled "page0", "page1", "page2" and "page3". There are also 3 8-pin dip switches: I have a couple of photos at: http://www.msdsite.com/vcomp/cromemco/photos.html Since this is a 64K board and since there is other memory in my system. I'm hoping this allows some sort of bank switching. But without docs, I don't know how to use it. I assume the Bank A/B allow setting which bank a particular 16K might reside but am not sure. And the address lines of A15, A14 are a mystery. Is there a way to switch banks by writing to an I/O port? Location? Can any of you help with an explanation how this works and how I might use the switches? Thanks in advance, Mike ------------------------------------------- Introducing NetZero Long Distance Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month! Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com From mhscc at canada.com Fri Aug 23 14:36:46 2002 From: mhscc at canada.com (MHStein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Wanted: Cromemco assistance Message-ID: <005001c24adb$a599ab80$cceb059a@msed03> Congratulations! A fine box indeed. I might be able to help ya; I scrapped a pile of Cromemco stuff and Dan Cohoe's name is on most of what's left, but I believe there is most of a spare Z-2 cabinet left over, including the front panel (the version without floppy drive cutouts). But an S-100 chassis (especially the Z-2) is only that; as far as disk drives & OSs, that would all depend on what cards are in there. FWIW, I do have copies of 11-(Z80), 20-(68000) and 30/31-(68010) series Cromix, CDOS (their version of CP/M), and various utilities and languages. Also some cards & lots of manuals, at least until Dan cleans me out. What kind of info do ya need? m ---------------Original Message---------------- From: "Curt Vendel" To: Subject: Wanted: Cromemco assistance Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 23:56:24 -0400 Organization: Atari History Museum (http://www.atarimuseum.com) Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Hi, I am planning on purchasing a Cromemco Z-2 system shortly, it has some special purpose Atari designed boards installed and was used within Atari to develop Atari 2600 VCS games. However the unit is missing the front cover, disk drive and OS software. If anyone can point me to a site(s) with good information on the systems and anyone who may have spare parts to sell like boards, keyboard and so forth, please let me know, thanks. Curt ------------------------------------------- Introducing NetZero Long Distance Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month! Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com From red at bears.org Fri Aug 23 14:50:01 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Sanyo MBC-555 - help? In-Reply-To: <005101c24adb$a7034da0$cceb059a@msed03> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Aug 2002, MHStein wrote: > software or docs. Disk spins on power up, but no text at > all on screen; have tried PC-DOS 1.0 through 3.3, but no > message of any sort. Is this normal with a non-Sanyo disk, > or does it have a problem? I don't know much about the MBC-555, but I'm pretty sure it was an MS-DOS "compatible", and not a PC clone. > Anybody have a boot disk, and if so, can it be tele-disked > or would I need the physical diskette? I have some software for the 555, but no system to check it out on. I'll have to check to see what the titles are when I get home. Drop me a line in a few days in case I get lost on the way. ok r. From dbwood at kc.rr.com Fri Aug 23 14:54:01 2002 From: dbwood at kc.rr.com (Douglas Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Cromemco 64KZ Info Needed References: <005201c24adb$a93c74c0$cceb059a@msed03> Message-ID: <002101c24ad7$82ed2980$6401a8c0@kc.rr.com> Any chance you have a copy of Cromemco's Macro Assembler for Z80 user manual? Douglas Wood Software Engineer dbwood@kc.rr.com Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC and SX http://epicis.piclist.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "MHStein" To: Cc: Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 2:16 PM Subject: Cromemco 64KZ Info Needed > The 64KZ is organized as two 32K Blocks (not 16); the A15 > switches control whether that block is in the lower or upper > half of the 64K range. > > Reset out disables that block after a reset to allow the boot > ROM to use that space on power up. > > Override & DMA are only relevant for DMA operations. > > Bank switching is done by outputting a byte to 40H > (this address is set by a jumper block/PROM): > bit 0 = bank 0, etc., and each block's bank(s) are of > course set with SW2 & SW3. > > Good luck; I've got a manual somewhere that I could scan > if you haven't already gotten one elsewhere, but probably > not this weekend. Email me off-list if I can help. > > m > > -----------------Original Message---------------- > > From: "Mike Davis" > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 21:48:17 -0700 > Subject: Cromemco 64KZ Info Needed > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Hope this is not a duplicate. The first one did not show up. > > I have just obtained a Cromemco 64KZ board. This has 64K of RAM and > I'd like to test this out this weekend. Unfortunately, I don't have > any documentation. > > There are 4 banks of RAM (16K x 8) Each bank is labeled "page0", > "page1", "page2" and "page3". There are also 3 8-pin dip switches: > > I have a couple of photos at: > http://www.msdsite.com/vcomp/cromemco/photos.html > > Since this is a 64K board and since there is other memory in my > system. I'm hoping this allows some sort of bank switching. But > without docs, I don't know how to use it. > > I assume the Bank A/B allow setting which bank a particular 16K might > reside but am not sure. And the address lines of A15, A14 are a > mystery. > > Is there a way to switch banks by writing to an I/O port? Location? > > Can any of you help with an explanation how this works and how I might > use the switches? > > Thanks in advance, > > Mike > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > Introducing NetZero Long Distance > Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month! > Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com From archer at topnow.com Fri Aug 23 16:50:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Sanyo MBC-555 - help? References: <005101c24adb$a7034da0$cceb059a@msed03> Message-ID: <3D66AE27.E0CBABAF@topnow.com> MHStein wrote: > > I've got one of these cuties (monochrome monitor), but no > software or docs. Disk spins on power up, but no text at > all on screen; have tried PC-DOS 1.0 through 3.3, but no > message of any sort. Is this normal with a non-Sanyo disk, > or does it have a problem? I remember seeing one of these babies at the UC Irvine computer store when it was brand-spanking new. As I recall, it could output text *almost* as fast as a Commodore 64 did. (I exaggerate. It was pretty much even.) But it looked cool and had a non-toy disk drive that didn't sound like a machine gun on each power-up. :-) If I recall correctly, it was an MS-DOS system, so unless their BIOS was seriously broken, it should run generic MS-DOS if not PC-DOS. Have you done a Google search for info. on the Web? Perhaps there are DIP switches to set or your drive is just dead? -- Ross > > Anybody have a boot disk, and if so, can it be tele-disked > or would I need the physical diskette? > > TIA, > > m > > ------------------------------------------- > Introducing NetZero Long Distance > Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month! > Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com From archer at topnow.com Fri Aug 23 16:54:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Sanyo MBC-555 - help? References: <005101c24adb$a7034da0$cceb059a@msed03> Message-ID: <3D66AF0E.D75BD234@topnow.com> MHStein wrote: > > I've got one of these cuties (monochrome monitor), but no > software or docs. Disk spins on power up, but no text at > all on screen; have tried PC-DOS 1.0 through 3.3, but no > message of any sort. Is this normal with a non-Sanyo disk, > or does it have a problem? Try MS-DOS 1.25. Or, if you want to be truly retro, CP/M 86. :) This should work according to: http://www.digidome.nl/sanyo.htm > > Anybody have a boot disk, and if so, can it be tele-disked > or would I need the physical diskette? > > TIA, > > m > > ------------------------------------------- > Introducing NetZero Long Distance > Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month! > Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Aug 23 17:04:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Sanyo MBC-555 - help? In-Reply-To: <3D66AE27.E0CBABAF@topnow.com> References: <005101c24adb$a7034da0$cceb059a@msed03> <3D66AE27.E0CBABAF@topnow.com> Message-ID: <18572.207.55.102.175.1030140283.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > If I recall correctly, it was an MS-DOS system, Yes. > so unless their BIOS was seriously broken, Their BIOS isn't "broken", but it's certainly *much* different. They weren't trying to build a PC clone. > it should run generic MS-DOS if not PC-DOS. Definitely not PC-DOS. And there isn't really such a think as "generic MS-DOS", except in the sense that Microsoft sold MS-DOS adaptation kits to OEMs. What shipped to customers was always specific to a particular kind of computer. So MS-DOS 1.25 for the Sanyo is NOT the same as MS-DOS 1.25 for an HP 150, Tandy 2000, or Heath/Zenith Z-100. Of course, by the late 1980s most everyone had given up on making x86-based machines that were not PC-compatible. From ccraft at springsips.com Fri Aug 23 17:24:00 2002 From: ccraft at springsips.com (Chris Craft) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: OT: LCD panel / backlight... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020823222418.547AA61039@mamacass.springsips.com> This laptop's only 6.5 years old, but... Anyone have any hints on what to do with the LCD display whose backlight has quit? I can still (barely) see that the TFT panel is working, but there's no light behind it, making it rather difficult to see. The panel looks physically ok, but it could have gotten beat up... this laptop is used in the field a bit. Numbers off the back: Toshiba LTM11C016 (label on back right vertical edge), and on the other bit: NRL75-8859-111 K6C05 0190 (label on back top edge). Sincerely, Chris Craft, RetroComputing Nut. From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Aug 23 17:25:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Sanyo MBC-555 - help? In-Reply-To: <3D66AF0E.D75BD234@topnow.com> Message-ID: > > I've got one of these cuties (monochrome monitor), but no > > software or docs. Disk spins on power up, but no text at > > all on screen; have tried PC-DOS 1.0 through 3.3, but no > > message of any sort. Is this normal with a non-Sanyo disk, > > or does it have a problem? > > Try MS-DOS 1.25. Or, if you want to be truly retro, > CP/M 86. :) This should work according to: > http://www.digidome.nl/sanyo.htm Whether or not THAT says that it will work, be aware that MS-DOS 1.25 is an OEMed version, and each and every company that built a computer that used it had a mutually incompatible version of it. SANYO MS-DOS 1.25 would certainly work. Morrow MS-DOS 1.25 won't, etc. A statement that "MS-DOS 1.25 will work" is so incomplete as to be FALSE, even though there exists a single true instance. Thus, it is as valid a statement as "Honda 600s can use Michelin tires" being interpreted to mean that because I have a michelin tire, it will fit a Honda 600 (not ALL Michelin tires are 145x10!). MANY versions were close enough that they would at least partially work, but not all. The Sanyo was an especially weird one, particularly things such as MODE.COM. Once you find a version of MS-DOS that works with it, then "well behaved" MS-DOS programs will work. Note: that does not include any real world software. Programs with well documented customization (such as PC-Write) can be easily reconfigured for it. The versions of MS-DOS with the most "customization" for "non-standard" hardware were: 1.25, 2.11, 3.31 (ALL of those have characteristics that are not present in any corresponding version of PC-DOS) By MS-DOS 5.00, customization for "non-standard" hardware was no longer supported. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From curt at atari-history.com Fri Aug 23 17:30:01 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Wanted: Cromemco assistance References: Message-ID: <003601c24af4$60121a70$01000001@cvendel> Hi Sellam, Well, I'm pinging out to a bunch of former Atari programmers in hopes that someone may have taken some diskettes home that might have the needed software. From what I've been told, many of these Z-2's were hooked up to the various VAX's at Atari and serially loaded utilities and programs to/from the Vax's that way, but some people did backup locally to disk drives connected to the systems. In the meantime I'd just like to get some core functionality going on this Z-2 just to understand it better and to play around with it as well. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 7:04 AM Subject: Re: Wanted: Cromemco assistance > On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > > I have various versions of Cromix on 5.25" and 8" disks, but will have to > > > dig these out, and the chances of this happening in the next 2 months is > > > close to zero :( Is that what they used for these systems, or did they > > > use CP/M? In that case, again, I have the OS, but it will take a while to > > > dig them out. > > > > They also used CP/M. > > There were a couple of different Cromemco CP/M formats SS, DS, .... > > They made some dual processor systems Z80 + 68000, for a LOT more money > > than the Radio Shack model 16 (a cheap dual processor) > > I'm wondering what the development environment was for the system that > Curt has. > > Curt, if you didn't get any software with the machine, how are you going > to get the Atari specific functions of the machine working again? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > From ccraft at springsips.com Fri Aug 23 17:53:01 2002 From: ccraft at springsips.com (Chris Craft) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: OT: LCD panel / backlight... In-Reply-To: <3D66B85F.A57AA0E@gifford.co.uk> References: <20020823222418.547AA61039@mamacass.springsips.com> <3D66B85F.A57AA0E@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <20020823225155.472A561060@mamacass.springsips.com> I did a little further disassembly and found a miniscule flourescent tube, but it wasn't broken. I put everything back together, giving firming nudges to all connections and tried it... the gods must be smiling upon me for, behold, it works! I've dodged the bullet ;) the laptop really belongs to my employer. Regards, Chris. On Friday, 23. August 2002 16:34, John Honniball wrote: > Chris Craft wrote: > > Anyone have any hints on what to do with the LCD display whose backlight > > has quit? I can still (barely) see that the TFT panel is working, but > > there's no light behind it, making it rather difficult to see. The panel > > looks physically ok, but it could have gotten beat up... > > I've taken apart an early Toshiba LCD-screened laptop and found bits of > broken glass behind the LCD. There were small fluorescent tubes behind > the LCD to act as the backlight. Somebody had broken one (maybe by > dropping > the machine), fixed it, and left some glass behind. > > Newer laptops have flat electroluminescent panels instead of glass > tubes. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Aug 23 18:14:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Sanyo? Just SayNo! Re: Sanyo MBC-555 - help? In-Reply-To: References: <3D66AF0E.D75BD234@topnow.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020823191558.4e676324@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Fred is exactly right. Sanyo 55x will run Sanyo flavored MS-DOS ONLY! They will not run ANYTHING else! Programs that comply with all MS-DOS calls SHOULD run on the 55x. But most SW bypasses the MS-DOS calls and WILL NOT run on the 55x. The 55x does not have ROM BIOS like the IBM PC does (it only has a loader) and that's another source of incompatiblity. There's also no ROM BASIC in the 55x. Joe At 03:25 PM 8/23/02 -0700, Fred wrote: >> > I've got one of these cuties (monochrome monitor), but no >> > software or docs. Disk spins on power up, but no text at >> > all on screen; have tried PC-DOS 1.0 through 3.3, but no >> > message of any sort. Is this normal with a non-Sanyo disk, >> > or does it have a problem? >> >> Try MS-DOS 1.25. Or, if you want to be truly retro, >> CP/M 86. :) This should work according to: >> http://www.digidome.nl/sanyo.htm > >Whether or not THAT says that it will work, be aware that MS-DOS 1.25 is >an OEMed version, and each and every company that built a computer that >used it had a mutually incompatible version of it. SANYO MS-DOS 1.25 >would certainly work. Morrow MS-DOS 1.25 won't, etc. A statement that >"MS-DOS 1.25 will work" is so incomplete as to be FALSE, even though there >exists a single true instance. Thus, it is as valid a statement as "Honda >600s can use Michelin tires" being interpreted to mean that because I have >a michelin tire, it will fit a Honda 600 (not ALL Michelin tires are >145x10!). MANY versions were close enough that they would at least >partially work, but not all. The Sanyo was an especially weird one, >particularly things such as MODE.COM. > >Once you find a version of MS-DOS that works with it, then "well >behaved" MS-DOS programs will work. Note: that does not include any real >world software. Programs with well documented customization (such as >PC-Write) can be easily reconfigured for it. > > >The versions of MS-DOS with the most "customization" for >"non-standard" hardware were: 1.25, 2.11, 3.31 >(ALL of those have characteristics that are not present in any >corresponding version of PC-DOS) > >By MS-DOS 5.00, customization for "non-standard" hardware was no longer >supported. >-- >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Aug 23 18:14:53 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Wanted: Cromemco assistance In-Reply-To: <005001c24adb$a599ab80$cceb059a@msed03> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020823190340.0f7fc98c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> If anyone is interested I have a Cromembo S-100 chassis that's built into a desk. This is an original Cromemco unit. It's free for pickup in central Florida. Joe At 02:43 PM 8/23/02 -0400, you wrote: >Congratulations! A fine box indeed. > >I might be able to help ya; I scrapped a pile of Cromemco stuff and Dan >Cohoe's name is on most of what's left, but I believe there is most of a >spare Z-2 cabinet left over, including the front panel (the version without >floppy drive cutouts). > >But an S-100 chassis (especially the Z-2) is only that; as far as disk >drives & OSs, that would all depend on what cards are in there. > >FWIW, I do have copies of 11-(Z80), 20-(68000) and 30/31-(68010) >series Cromix, CDOS (their version of CP/M), and various utilities and >languages. Also some cards & lots of manuals, at least until Dan cleans >me out. > >What kind of info do ya need? > >m > >---------------Original Message---------------- > >From: "Curt Vendel" >To: >Subject: Wanted: Cromemco assistance >Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 23:56:24 -0400 >Organization: Atari History Museum (http://www.atarimuseum.com) >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >Hi, > > I am planning on purchasing a Cromemco Z-2 system shortly, it has some >special purpose Atari designed boards installed and was used within Atari to >develop Atari 2600 VCS games. However the unit is missing the front cover, >disk drive and OS software. If anyone can point me to a site(s) with good >information on the systems and anyone who may have spare parts to sell like >boards, keyboard and so forth, please let me know, thanks. > > > >Curt > > > > > > >------------------------------------------- >Introducing NetZero Long Distance >Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month! >Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Aug 23 18:15:44 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Sanyo MBC-555 - help? In-Reply-To: <005101c24adb$a7034da0$cceb059a@msed03> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020823190141.42cfbc3a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:10 PM 8/23/02 -0400, you wrote: Sanyo MBC-555 - help? Good luck. You'll need it! >I've got one of these cuties (monochrome monitor), but no >software or docs. Disk spins on power up, but no text at >all on screen; have tried PC-DOS 1.0 through 3.3, but no >message of any sort. Is this normal with a non-Sanyo disk, >or does it have a problem? It uses it's own pecular version of DOS. NOTHING else will work in it. IIRC the only two versions that I know of that were released for it were DOS 1.1 and 2.11. I MAY still have copies here somewhere. The Sanyo has a number of IBM incompatiblities, including the fact that the video memory is not at a fixed location. It's location varies depending on the amount of memory installed and other factors. That alone means that SW that writes dirctly to video memory will not work on the Sanyo. For example Lotus 123 version 1A works but version 2 doesn't. > >Anybody have a boot disk, and if so, can it be tele-disked >or would I need the physical diskette? I have NEVER been able to get Teledisk to work for ANY disks. I wouldn't have another one of those things if you gave it to me on a silver platter! Joe > >TIA, > >m > >------------------------------------------- >Introducing NetZero Long Distance >Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month! >Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Aug 23 18:16:30 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: OT: LCD panel / backlight... In-Reply-To: <20020823222418.547AA61039@mamacass.springsips.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020823190654.217f98fc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> A lot of backlite LCDs panels use a soda-straw sized floresent bulb. The bulbs go bad after a few years. If you're carefull you might be able to open it up and replace the bulb. joe At 04:24 PM 8/23/02 -0600, you wrote: > This laptop's only 6.5 years old, but... > Anyone have any hints on what to do with the LCD display whose backlight has >quit? I can still (barely) see that the TFT panel is working, but there's no >light behind it, making it rather difficult to see. The panel looks >physically ok, but it could have gotten beat up... this laptop is used in the >field a bit. Numbers off the back: Toshiba LTM11C016 (label on back right >vertical edge), and on the other bit: NRL75-8859-111 K6C05 0190 (label on >back top edge). > >Sincerely, >Chris Craft, RetroComputing Nut. > From ipscone at msdsite.com Fri Aug 23 18:59:00 2002 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Tada! IMSAI and CP/M working In-Reply-To: <005201c24adb$a93c74c0$cceb059a@msed03> Message-ID: <3D666875.8973.2FF794@localhost> Took a while but I finally got my Dual 8" Drives to boot to CP/M. Here is the photo: http://www.msdsite.com/vcomp/imsai/photos.html Now, to figure out my other boards like the Cromemco 64KZ. I think I'm making some progress with the help of others. Mike From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 23 19:09:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Sanyo MBC-555 - help? In-Reply-To: <005101c24adb$a7034da0$cceb059a@msed03> from "MHStein" at Aug 23, 2 03:10:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1698 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020823/df8eb20b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 23 19:10:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: OT: LCD panel / backlight... In-Reply-To: <20020823222418.547AA61039@mamacass.springsips.com> from "Chris Craft" at Aug 23, 2 04:24:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1229 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020823/27d13e09/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Fri Aug 23 19:13:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Sanyo MBC-555 - help? In-Reply-To: <005101c24adb$a7034da0$cceb059a@msed03> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Aug 2002, MHStein wrote: > I've got one of these cuties (monochrome monitor), but no > software or docs. Disk spins on power up, but no text at > all on screen; have tried PC-DOS 1.0 through 3.3, but no > message of any sort. Is this normal with a non-Sanyo disk, > or does it have a problem? > > Anybody have a boot disk, and if so, can it be tele-disked > or would I need the physical diskette? I have sent you by separate email a TeleDisk image of 2.11 for the MBC555. It should put some text on your screen and a smile on your face :) - don > TIA, > > m > > ------------------------------------------- > Introducing NetZero Long Distance > Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month! > Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com > From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Aug 23 23:21:00 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Tada! IMSAI and CP/M working References: <3D666875.8973.2FF794@localhost> Message-ID: <005801c24b25$98871d20$bb3dcd18@D73KSM11> > Took a while but I finally got my Dual 8" Drives to boot to CP/M. > > Here is the photo: > http://www.msdsite.com/vcomp/imsai/photos.html > > Now, to figure out my other boards like the Cromemco 64KZ. I think > I'm making some progress with the help of others. > > Mike > Cool - but it would be even cooler to see Startrek.bas running on that system! -W From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Aug 23 23:45:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Tada! IMSAI and CP/M working In-Reply-To: <005801c24b25$98871d20$bb3dcd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: I thought Trek-80 only ran on the VDP boards. Or did they have a version for terminals? (I mostly played it on the SOL-20). --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Wayne M. Smith Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 00:21 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Tada! IMSAI and CP/M working > Took a while but I finally got my Dual 8" Drives to boot to CP/M. > > Here is the photo: > http://www.msdsite.com/vcomp/imsai/photos.html > > Now, to figure out my other boards like the Cromemco 64KZ. I think > I'm making some progress with the help of others. > > Mike > Cool - but it would be even cooler to see Startrek.bas running on that system! -W From ipscone at msdsite.com Fri Aug 23 23:54:00 2002 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Tada! IMSAI and CP/M working In-Reply-To: References: <005801c24b25$98871d20$bb3dcd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <3D66ADA3.232.C33E11@localhost> The system that I have, currently has 32K RAM and uses the Soroc serial B/W terminal. Anyone have a good classic basic game (that's short) and I'll enter it and see what it looks like on this old terminal :-) > I thought Trek-80 only ran on the VDP boards. Or did they have a > version for terminals? (I mostly played it on the SOL-20). > > --John > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Wayne M. Smith Sent: > Saturday, August 24, 2002 00:21 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: > Tada! IMSAI and CP/M working > > > > Took a while but I finally got my Dual 8" Drives to boot to CP/M. > > > > Here is the photo: > > http://www.msdsite.com/vcomp/imsai/photos.html > > > > Now, to figure out my other boards like the Cromemco 64KZ. I think > > I'm making some progress with the help of others. > > > > Mike > > > Cool - but it would be even cooler to see Startrek.bas running on that > system! > > -W > > > > > From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat Aug 24 00:02:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Tada! IMSAI and CP/M working In-Reply-To: <3D66ADA3.232.C33E11@localhost> Message-ID: Starlanes isn't short (i.e, < 50 lines), but it's certainly a classic. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Davis Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 00:48 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Tada! IMSAI and CP/M working The system that I have, currently has 32K RAM and uses the Soroc serial B/W terminal. Anyone have a good classic basic game (that's short) and I'll enter it and see what it looks like on this old terminal :-) > I thought Trek-80 only ran on the VDP boards. Or did they have a > version for terminals? (I mostly played it on the SOL-20). > > --John > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Wayne M. Smith Sent: > Saturday, August 24, 2002 00:21 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: > Tada! IMSAI and CP/M working > > > > Took a while but I finally got my Dual 8" Drives to boot to CP/M. > > > > Here is the photo: > > http://www.msdsite.com/vcomp/imsai/photos.html > > > > Now, to figure out my other boards like the Cromemco 64KZ. I think > > I'm making some progress with the help of others. > > > > Mike > > > Cool - but it would be even cooler to see Startrek.bas running on that > system! > > -W > > > > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Aug 24 00:05:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Tada! IMSAI and CP/M working In-Reply-To: from "J.C. Wren" at "Aug 24, 2 01:02:13 am" Message-ID: <200208240513.WAA10156@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Starlanes isn't short (i.e, < 50 lines), but it's certainly a classic. What's Starlanes? Can the source be had? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- You told me to get a life. May I take yours? -- "Scream V" ----------------- From ipscone at msdsite.com Sat Aug 24 00:14:00 2002 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Tada! IMSAI and CP/M working In-Reply-To: References: <3D66ADA3.232.C33E11@localhost> Message-ID: <3D66B266.25535.D5DBCD@localhost> By short, I meant something I can do in enter in a few hours. I'd say short is 3 or 4 pages. :-) I'll look for starlanes. > Starlanes isn't short (i.e, < 50 lines), but it's certainly a classic. > > --John > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Davis Sent: > Saturday, August 24, 2002 00:48 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: > Tada! IMSAI and CP/M working > > > The system that I have, currently has 32K RAM and uses the Soroc > serial B/W terminal. Anyone have a good classic basic game (that's > short) and I'll enter it and see what it looks like on this old > terminal :-) > > > > > I thought Trek-80 only ran on the VDP boards. Or did they have a > > version for terminals? (I mostly played it on the SOL-20). > > > > --John > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Wayne M. Smith > > Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 00:21 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: Tada! IMSAI and CP/M working > > > > > > > Took a while but I finally got my Dual 8" Drives to boot to CP/M. > > > > > > Here is the photo: > > > http://www.msdsite.com/vcomp/imsai/photos.html > > > > > > Now, to figure out my other boards like the Cromemco 64KZ. I > > > think I'm making some progress with the help of others. > > > > > > Mike > > > > > Cool - but it would be even cooler to see Startrek.bas running on > > that system! > > > > -W > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat Aug 24 00:30:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Tada! IMSAI and CP/M working In-Reply-To: <200208240513.WAA10156@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: Starlanes is a graphics-done-with-text empire trading game. The details are a little hazy, but it's basically a 2 to 4 player game. Each player takes a turn. You buy stock in a company, and when you have enough stock, you can create an outpost. You can add to exist outposts, and if two outposts collide (because of a limited playing area, 16 rows by 30 chars, maybe?), they merge. I think which ever is larger wins the merge, and your stock is adjust accordingly. While not a complicate game by any means, there are some various strategies to play. I'm pretty hazy on the details, since it's been at least 15 years since I played the last game. I've always wanted to find a PC copy (but never made much of an effort). --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Cameron Kaiser Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 01:13 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Tada! IMSAI and CP/M working > Starlanes isn't short (i.e, < 50 lines), but it's certainly a classic. What's Starlanes? Can the source be had? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- You told me to get a life. May I take yours? -- "Scream V" ----------------- From foo at siconic.com Sat Aug 24 01:24:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: These darned old computers Message-ID: Well, I finally had some success with these old computers I've been trying to get working. The Atari problem ended up being with the power supply. Its plug did not properly fit the power receptacle on the computer. Once I got the proper power supply it worked like a champ. More like I remember the last time I played with an Atari 800 a few years ago. Then, I was amazed at how easy it was to get up and running with a disk-based Atari 800. Everything is total plug and play (but for real). I now like the Atari 800 :) The TRS-80 M3 was a LOT of work but I finally got it running. It turns out the problem with most of the units I tested most likely was a bad keyboard or just my ignorance in not knowing how to boot it into BASIC ;) I finally found one that had a decent keyboard and would boot to BASIC if I held down the BREAK key upon boot-up or after a reset. I wanted to make one nice machine out of two that I had. I moved the good keyboard to the nicer one. The nicer one didn't have the serial port board, so I moved it from the yucky one to the nice one. No wonder RS wanted you to bring the machine in to the service center to get it upgraded. This is NOT an easy computer to work on. I had to unscrew everything to remove the motherboard to both take out the card on the one and install it on the other. Also, there is a power cable that is added for the serial port option when it's upgraded, so I had to cut the zip ties holding the cable in place on the old one to move it to the new one. What a shit design. The stuck brightness and contrast knobs were fixed with a healthy helping of Deoxit, which is this deoxidizing agent. I worked the knobs back and forth and they loosened up nicely. Now everything works great. I now like the TRS-80 Model III :) The Commodore 64 I have is just plum dead. Or at least it seems to be. The video cable I am using has four connectors on it: red, yellow, white and black. The 1702 monitor has three jacks on the back: chroma, luma and audio. I tried all different combinations trying to get video on the display but no die. What's the deal with that? I think I'm using the wrong video cable, but all the C64 stashes I check turn up this 4-connector cable. I forgot to bring home the spare C64's I was going to have as stand-by's so I don't currently have another C64 to compare with. I know I have a three-connector cable that I'm sure goes to the C64 but I cannot find one for the life of me. Grrr. I still hate the C64. The Radio Shack Color Computer 2 is confusing. And somewhat lame. I have to go find the disk controller carthridge to attach disk drives to it. Then I have to find the proper disk drives. Fine. But I can't figure out the video. I want to connect it to an Amdek color monitor. The only video jack is the RCA type on the back that seems to be a built in RF modulator. So needless to say I don't get video on the display. I can't find any mention on the web of adding an external monitor to the CoCo. The CoCo2 is lame. I do not like the CoCo2. Any idea on how to hook the CoCo2 to a composite monitor? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From frustum at pacbell.net Sat Aug 24 01:25:01 2002 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: Tada! IMSAI and CP/M working In-Reply-To: References: <200208240513.WAA10156@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020823232418.02160ec0@postoffice.pacbell.net> At 01:29 AM 8/24/02 -0400, you wrote: > Starlanes is a graphics-done-with-text empire trading game. The > details >are a little hazy, but it's basically a 2 to 4 player game. Each player >takes a turn. You buy stock in a company, and when you have enough stock, >you can create an outpost. You can add to exist outposts, and if two >outposts collide (because of a limited playing area, 16 rows by 30 chars, >maybe?), they merge. I think which ever is larger wins the merge, and your >stock is adjust accordingly. While not a complicate game by any means, >there are some various strategies to play. I'm pretty hazy on the details, >since it's been at least 15 years since I played the last game. I've always >wanted to find a PC copy (but never made much of an effort). > > --John About 10 seconds with google found this: http://ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/games/strategy/!INDEX.short.html Of course, I have no idea how close it is to the version you remember. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 24 08:07:01 2002 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:48 2005 Subject: CoCo 2 video ( Was: These darned old computers) Message-ID: <1181928106-37082@watermarkpress.com> > The Radio Shack Color Computer 2 is confusing. And somewhat lame. I have > to go find the disk controller carthridge to attach disk drives to it. > Then I have to find the proper disk drives. Fine. But I can't figure out > the video. I want to connect it to an Amdek color monitor. The only > video jack is the RCA type on the back that seems to be a built in RF > modulator. So needless to say I don't get video on the display. I can't > find any mention on the web of adding an external monitor to the CoCo. > The CoCo2 is lame. I do not like the CoCo2. > > Any idea on how to hook the CoCo2 to a composite monitor? Hey, lets not bash the CoCo 2. It was meant only to be connected to a TV. People used to sell composite conversion kits. But I haven't seen anything recently. Except the rare modded CoCo 2 on eBay. Best place to ask is on USENET: bit.listserve.coco. Someone usualy has something tucked away in a drawer. -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com "Life. Don't talk to me about life." - Marvin, the android From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Aug 24 10:05:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: These darned old computers References: Message-ID: <3D67A0FB.8070209@tiac.net> Yes, A CoCo can be attached to any monitor, using a nail gun. Sellam Ismail wrote: >Well, I finally had some success with these old computers I've been trying >to get working. > >The Atari problem ended up being with the power supply. Its plug did not >properly fit the power receptacle on the computer. Once I got the proper >power supply it worked like a champ. More like I remember the last time I >played with an Atari 800 a few years ago. Then, I was amazed at how easy >it was to get up and running with a disk-based Atari 800. Everything is >total plug and play (but for real). I now like the Atari 800 :) > >The TRS-80 M3 was a LOT of work but I finally got it running. It turns >out the problem with most of the units I tested most likely was a bad >keyboard or just my ignorance in not knowing how to boot it into BASIC ;) >I finally found one that had a decent keyboard and would boot to BASIC if >I held down the BREAK key upon boot-up or after a reset. I wanted to >make one nice machine out of two that I had. I moved the good keyboard >to the nicer one. The nicer one didn't have the serial port board, so I >moved it from the yucky one to the nice one. No wonder RS wanted you to >bring the machine in to the service center to get it upgraded. This is >NOT an easy computer to work on. I had to unscrew everything to remove >the motherboard to both take out the card on the one and install it on the >other. Also, there is a power cable that is added for the serial port >option when it's upgraded, so I had to cut the zip ties holding the cable >in place on the old one to move it to the new one. What a shit design. >The stuck brightness and contrast knobs were fixed with a healthy helping >of Deoxit, which is this deoxidizing agent. I worked the knobs back >and forth and they loosened up nicely. Now everything works great. I >now like the TRS-80 Model III :) > >The Commodore 64 I have is just plum dead. Or at least it seems to be. >The video cable I am using has four connectors on it: red, yellow, white >and black. The 1702 monitor has three jacks on the back: chroma, luma and >audio. I tried all different combinations trying to get video on the >display but no die. What's the deal with that? I think I'm using the >wrong video cable, but all the C64 stashes I check turn up this >4-connector cable. I forgot to bring home the spare C64's I was going to >have as stand-by's so I don't currently have another C64 to compare with. >I know I have a three-connector cable that I'm sure goes to the C64 but I >cannot find one for the life of me. Grrr. I still hate the C64. > >The Radio Shack Color Computer 2 is confusing. And somewhat lame. I have >to go find the disk controller carthridge to attach disk drives to it. >Then I have to find the proper disk drives. Fine. But I can't figure out >the video. I want to connect it to an Amdek color monitor. The only >video jack is the RCA type on the back that seems to be a built in RF >modulator. So needless to say I don't get video on the display. I can't >find any mention on the web of adding an external monitor to the CoCo. >The CoCo2 is lame. I do not like the CoCo2. > >Any idea on how to hook the CoCo2 to a composite monitor? > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 24 11:09:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: Dead C-64 (was Re: These darned old computers) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020824160907.94713.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > > The Commodore 64 I have is just plum dead. Or at least it seems to be. That's entirely possible. The 82S100 PLA address controller is probably the most common thing to fail when you have a completely dead machine. You can pull one from another C-64 to verify. Replacements can be burned if you have a source of blank 82S100s and a burner. > The video cable I am using has four connectors on it: red, yellow, white > and black. The 1702 monitor has three jacks on the back: chroma, luma > and audio. I tried all different combinations trying to get video on the > display but no die. What's the deal with that? I think I'm using the > wrong video cable, but all the C64 stashes I check turn up this > 4-connector cable. I have used a variety of DIN-5 to RCA cables in the past on the C-64. Worst case, you can look up the pinout of the DIN-5 video connector and use a VOM/continuity meter to prove which RCA jack is which signal. You can also use the front jacks on a 1702 - composite and audio. Not as nice, but it works fine. I used to use two computers at once from my 1702 (three if you count the aftermarket RGB interface I stuffed into mine - was supposed to be RGBI, but I hacked it for analog RGB and used it with my Amiga 1000 for years). > ...Grrr. I still hate the C64. Sorry to hear that. They made me a lot of money (used to write commercial products, c. 1982-1984). They aren't the epitome of 1980s design, but they sure did ship a lot of them. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Aug 24 11:42:01 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: Dead C-64 (was Re: These darned old computers) References: <20020824160907.94713.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D67B68B.2EF1EA4C@ccp.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > The Commodore 64 I have is just plum dead. Or at least it seems to be. > > > The video cable I am using has four connectors on it: red, yellow, white > > and black. The 1702 monitor has three jacks on the back: chroma, luma > > and audio. I tried all different combinations trying to get video on the > > display but no die. What's the deal with that? I think I'm using the > > wrong video cable, but all the C64 stashes I check turn up this > > 4-connector cable. I just rolled my own a/v Cable with a 5 pin DIN plug. The later machines with the 8 pin jack still used the same pins, and the 5 pin plug fits nicely. > > I have used a variety of DIN-5 to RCA cables in the past on the C-64. > Worst case, you can look up the pinout of the DIN-5 video connector > and use a VOM/continuity meter to prove which RCA jack is which signal. > > > ...Grrr. I still hate the C64. > > Sorry to hear that. They made me a lot of money (used to write > commercial products, c. 1982-1984). They aren't the epitome of > 1980s design, but they sure did ship a lot of them. > > -ethan I found that the 64 is one of the best documented computers around, and I have a shelf full of books to prove it. It is truly a hacker's computer, and reflecting on all the old compute! publications, people could do amazing things with that little machine, in spite of its slow disk I/O. I'm keeping mine for odd projects, such as home monitoring. If lightning hits, I just go out and find another one for $5-10 and keep on chugging. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Aug 24 11:46:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: Nintendo Family computer power pinout? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020824124820.1087ad78@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> A friend of mine just picked up a Nintendo Family computer at a garage sale but he didn't get the power supply. Does anyone know what voltage and polarity this needs? He said that it looks like this one . (The computer is the red and white piece on the left, the burgundy part on the right is a disk drive). Joe From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Aug 24 12:56:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <3D67A0FB.8070209@tiac.net> Message-ID: > Sellam Ismail wrote: > >The TRS-80 M3 was a LOT of work but I finally got it running. It turns > >out the problem with most of the units I tested most likely was a bad > >keyboard or just my ignorance in not knowing how to boot it into BASIC ;) > . . . > >The Radio Shack Color Computer 2 is confusing. And somewhat lame. I have > >to go find the disk controller carthridge to attach disk drives to it. > >Then I have to find the proper disk drives. Fine. The drives are not much of a problem. TM100-1 with a power supply (-2, or "360K" will work) Radio Shack did the drive select in the cable. So you can either make your own cable and do "normal" drive select, or use the RS cable and jumper all of the drive select positions on. For running OS-9 (Microware, NOT APPLE!), I'd recommend change the cable and use DS drives. > But I can't figure out > >the video. I want to connect it to an Amdek color monitor. The only > >video jack is the RCA type on the back that seems to be a built in RF > >modulator. So needless to say I don't get video on the display. I can't > >find any mention on the web of adding an external monitor to the CoCo. > >The CoCo2 is lame. I do not like the CoCo2. > >Any idea on how to hook the CoCo2 to a composite monitor? clip leads. for more permanent usage, wire in an RCA jack. Tony can probably remember the exact connection points, or contact Marty Goodman On Sat, 24 Aug 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > Yes, > A CoCo can be attached to any monitor, using a nail gun. Some monitors are so flimsy that they can be damaged if you put a nail through the CRT. For more temporary attachment, duct tape. From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 24 13:04:00 2002 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: These darned old computers Message-ID: <1181910225-1113349@watermarkpress.com> > For running OS-9 (Microware, NOT APPLE!), I'd recommend change the cable > and use DS drives. Also worth noting, a new beta version of OS-9 Level 1 (for the CoCo) was recently released. It include bug fixes, and back-porting of some level 2 commands. http://sourceforge.net/projects/cocoos9/ -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com "Life. Don't talk to me about life." - Marvin, the android From foo at siconic.com Sat Aug 24 13:28:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: Dead C-64 (was Re: These darned old computers) In-Reply-To: <20020824160907.94713.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Aug 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I have used a variety of DIN-5 to RCA cables in the past on the C-64. > Worst case, you can look up the pinout of the DIN-5 video connector and > use a VOM/continuity meter to prove which RCA jack is which signal. I figure one of the connectors ought to show at least something, which is what leads me to believe that the computer is dead. > > ...Grrr. I still hate the C64. > > Sorry to hear that. They made me a lot of money (used to write > commercial products, c. 1982-1984). They aren't the epitome of > 1980s design, but they sure did ship a lot of them. I'll like it again once it starts working. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 24 13:45:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Aug 23, 2 03:23:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 5768 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020824/02dcf924/attachment.ksh From roosmcd at dds.nl Sat Aug 24 14:16:01 2002 From: roosmcd at dds.nl (roosmcd@dds.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: Intergraph clipper rescue In-Reply-To: <20020824170001.38106.49434.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20020824170001.38106.49434.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <1030216465.3d67db11e1e41@webmail.dds.nl> Hello, Today a rescued a load of clipper stuff. I've just finished taking everything out of the car and it consists of the following items: Interpro 125 + monitor 4x Intergraph 2000 (I already had one of thse myself); I opened one and they seem to have C300 clipper processors. 2 other monitors keyboards and mice 2 A3 tablets lots and lots of cables stack of documentation (looks complete to me) and last a lot software. I've got boot floppies, cd's, Informix and Microstation xx, all with licenses. I'm now trying to get things running. I've booted the Interpro 125, but had no succes with the workstations. Will these work with the same monitor as the Interpro 125? The other monitors are still standing downstairs :(. I tried connecting the 125 monitor to a workstation, but didn't get a picture. Or maybe I should sort out the manuals first and look there... I'm only planning to keep the Interpro 125 and one workstation, so if anyone is interested in obtaining a machine/Clix, please mail me. I got these for free, so you can have them for shipping cost only (from .nl). greetings, Michiel ps. Another question, what kind of memory do these machines take? It looks like standard 30-pins simms, Is this correct? From foo at siconic.com Sat Aug 24 15:03:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Aug 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > Anyway, you can get the disk controller or RS232 board out relatively > easily. Open up the case. If you have a US model you then have to undo the > screws holding the shield over the back of the logic boards, if you have > an 'export' model, then just take off the little bracket at the top (2 > scres). Then unplug all the connectors on the CPU board (IIRC you can't Relatively easy? Relative to what? :) > get these back in the wrong places). Don't forget the 2 (delicate) > tapewires at the top that carry the bus signals from the CPU board to the > disk controller/RS232. These weren't too bad but the adhesive on the one for the disk controller had gone brittle and the leads started to peel off. I had to use a small jewelers screwdriver to pinch them into the connector. > Then undo all the screws holding the CPU board in place and take it out > (you can leave all the metalwork fixed to the bottom case). Finally, undo > the 4 screws holding the disk controller or RS232 board as appropriate, > unplug the power cable (and internal drive cable if you're doing the disk > controller) and take the board out. Yeah, what I said. Pain in the ass ;) > I am supriused. I though the power cable was present on all machines. But > admittedly I can't be sure since my M3 and M4 came with the RS232 board > fitted. I can't say having seen only two samples, but what leads me to believe that the cable was added only with the serial port option is that each power cable is labeled for its function. The CPU power cable is labeled "CPU" and the RS232 option cable is labeled "RS232". > > The Commodore 64 I have is just plum dead. Or at least it seems to be. > > The video cable I am using has four connectors on it: red, yellow, white > > and black. The 1702 monitor has three jacks on the back: chroma, luma and > > audio. I tried all different combinations trying to get video on the > > display but no die. What's the deal with that? I think I'm using the > > Is the 'power' LED on on the C64? PSUs for these machins are notoriously > unreliable. Yes. But I've seen dead C64's that have a lit LED. > > The Radio Shack Color Computer 2 is confusing. And somewhat lame. I have > > Considering it's the only machine you've mentioned that can run > multi-user, I think that 'lame' is a bit inappropriate! The hardware design is limiting. This was not meant to be expanded or extended easily. > Correct. The CoCo2 only has an RF output as standard. The CoCo3 has > composite video (and audio) outputs, an analogue RGB output connector, > and so on. Not to mention that the CoCo 3 is a much nicer machine in > other ways! True, but that doesn't excuse RS for making the CoCo2 so cut-rate. Thanks for the video tips. I'll try them out later. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 24 15:20:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Aug 24, 2 05:02:09 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3082 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020824/30cc1c66/attachment.ksh From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Sat Aug 24 15:54:00 2002 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: Dead C-64 (was Re: These darned old computers) References: Message-ID: <01d401c24bb0$6d3c4970$0101a8c0@athlon> Have you checked the 1702? Dave B(who has an attic full of C64 stuff!) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 10:26 PM Subject: Re: Dead C-64 (was Re: These darned old computers) > On Sat, 24 Aug 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > I have used a variety of DIN-5 to RCA cables in the past on the C-64. > > Worst case, you can look up the pinout of the DIN-5 video connector and > > use a VOM/continuity meter to prove which RCA jack is which signal. > > I figure one of the connectors ought to show at least something, which is > what leads me to believe that the computer is dead. > > > > ...Grrr. I still hate the C64. > > > > Sorry to hear that. They made me a lot of money (used to write > > commercial products, c. 1982-1984). They aren't the epitome of > > 1980s design, but they sure did ship a lot of them. > > I'll like it again once it starts working. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Aug 24 16:41:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: Dead C-64 (was Re: These darned old computers) References: <20020824160907.94713.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> <3D67B68B.2EF1EA4C@ccp.com> Message-ID: <001301c24bb6$964db000$0100000a@deepspacenine> Gary Hildebrand wrote: > I found that the 64 is one of the best documented computers around, > and I have a shelf full of books to prove it. It is truly a hacker's > computer, and reflecting on all the old compute! publications, people > could do amazing things with that little machine, in spite of its slow > disk I/O. Shame they never seem to appear around my neck of the woods (West Yorkshire, UK). I picked one up but it's stone dead. PSU is fried, all I've got in the way of PSUs is a 2-channel 0-30V @ 1A per channel benchtop. Can I get a C64 to boot using this, even just to see if the VIC, CPU, etc are OK? Alternatively, anyone in the UK got a spare C64, PSU and disk drive (5 1/4" or 3 1/2", I don't care either way). Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ PGP Key ID: 0x0E18C95F PGP Key Fingerprint: 2741 5CB7 1D45 6F77 D1FC FA3D 7A87 2DA4 0E18 C95F From davebarnes at adelphia.net Sat Aug 24 17:13:00 2002 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: RA70 help needed Message-ID: <3D6813B8.EAA6A01C@adelphia.net> Hey all; I picked up an BA23 and a couple RA70 drives, etc etc... does anyone know a way to jumper pins on the RA70 drive so it will come up, and ready without having to use a control panel? I just have the drives, any help would be appreciated... thanks -- David Barnes davebarnes@adelphia.net OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru and collector of DEC equipment From ipscone at msdsite.com Sat Aug 24 18:53:00 2002 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: copyatob In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020823232418.02160ec0@postoffice.pacbell.net> References: Message-ID: <3D67B882.20625.197FB5A@localhost> I've managed to make a copy of my bootable disk and now want to copy files from A to B. I have a program on my CP/M disk that's named CopyAToB.com. I assume it does what it suggests but I don't know what the proper command usage is. I executed copyatob with various guesses and always get, "SELECT ERROR DISK N" Anyone know how to use this program? I can't find anything on this on the system. Is there an easier way to copy programs (files) from one drive to another using CP/M? I'm a bit rusty on this:-) Mike From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Aug 24 19:29:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: copyatob In-Reply-To: <3D67B882.20625.197FB5A@localhost> Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Aug 2002, Mike Davis wrote: > Is there an easier way to copy programs (files) from one drive to > another using CP/M? I'm a bit rusty on this:-) The "normal" way in CP/M is PIP. D'ya need info on using it? From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Aug 24 19:29:27 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: Dead C-64 (was Re: These darned old computers) In-Reply-To: <3D67B68B.2EF1EA4C@ccp.com> from Gary Hildebrand at "Aug 24, 2 11:38:35 am" Message-ID: <200208250037.RAA09666@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I found that the 64 is one of the best documented computers around, and > I have a shelf full of books to prove it. It is truly a hacker's > computer, and reflecting on all the old compute! publications, people > could do amazing things with that little machine, in spite of its slow > disk I/O. Speaking of slow disk I/O, one of my next projects for the C64 web browser I threw together is to make it boot faster. I think 128 mode will do nicely for this task and shouldn't disturb compatibility. Also, I need to get Nether done ... hope to have a demo for VCF! -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Stand by to launch beef by-product into oscillating ventilation unit ... --- From foo at siconic.com Sat Aug 24 19:46:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Aug 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > That is not 'taking everything out'. Taking everything out would imply > removing the drives, drive tower, both PSUs, etc. The only time you need > to do that is when you want to remove the metalwork that supports the CPU > board, which isn't very often. I'm comparing it to the Apple ][. Pop the lid, stuff in the card, put the lid back. > I have taken M3s and M4s totally apart for cleaning. They're not that bad > when you get used to them. Large numbers of screws have never bothered me > though. It's a brain-dead design, in line with a lot what Radio Shack put out over the years. > You have a full 6809 expansion bus on the side of the machine. What more > do you want? A composite video output ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Aug 24 19:49:09 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: Dead C-64 (was Re: These darned old computers) In-Reply-To: <01d401c24bb0$6d3c4970$0101a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: On Sun, 25 Aug 2002, Dave Brown wrote: > Have you checked the 1702? Yes! It mostly works (no audio). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ipscone at msdsite.com Sat Aug 24 19:56:00 2002 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: copyatob In-Reply-To: References: <3D67B882.20625.197FB5A@localhost> Message-ID: <3D67C743.4615.1D19E87@localhost> No, I figured out the pip.com I guess. pip B=filename = a=filename, unless there is something else I should know other than that. > On Sat, 24 Aug 2002, Mike Davis wrote: > > Is there an easier way to copy programs (files) from one drive to > > another using CP/M? I'm a bit rusty on this:-) > > The "normal" way in CP/M is PIP. D'ya need info on using it? > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 24 20:05:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Aug 24, 2 09:45:04 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1250 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020824/6e51a813/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Sat Aug 24 20:49:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: Conclusion: Commodore 64 *is* lame! Message-ID: Ok, here's how lame the C64 is. I have three of them. I have three different types of video cable. The first thing I notice is that the C64 I've been working on has a different video connector than the other two. The other two are older; the one I've been working on newer (based on serial numbers and internal differences). The one I've been working on is most likely dead. I can't get anything out of it after trying various combinations of cables and monitors. So how come none of you C64 experts piped up to tell me that the video connector on the C64 changed over time? The later one had more pins, and the C64 video cable (that I searched all over for and finally found) only plugs into the newer style connector. It won't plug into the older ones because there are too many pins. Worse, I can't get the video to work if I plug the cable into the back of the 1702. I can only get it to work with the composite connector on the front. Maybe it's because I still don't have the right cable. Whatever. This is a nightmare. See, this is why I have such a poor opinion of the Commodore 64. Sure, technically it's a nice computer. But practically, it's a pile of shit. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Aug 24 21:04:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 25 Aug 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > I'm comparing it to the Apple ][. Pop the lid, stuff in the card, put the > > lid back. > > Yes, and I remember having to extract the mainboard or the keyboard from > an Apple ][ for repairs. Not totally trivial. I also well remember the > entertainment of repairing an Apple ][ PSU (darn marginal thing!). Oh, come on, Tony! Let's compare: I. Installing a serial card Apple ][: 1. Pop lid 2. Insert card 3. Run tail out back portal 4. Replace lid TRS-80 Model III: 1. Remove screw on back 2. Remove 8 screws on bottom 3. Carefully lift top part of assembly making sure not to damage CRT neck 4. Remove 6 screws securing shield around motherboard 5. Remove 8 screws securing motherboard 6. Disconnect 4 cables connected to motherboard 6. Remove motherboard 7. Insert serial card 8. Screw into place (4 screws) 9. Run power cable from power supply to serial board 10. Replace motherboard 11. Re-connect cables 12. Replace motherboard screws 13. Re-fit shield and its screws 14. Carefully place top assembly making sure the CRT neck does not tangle with the ground wires near the top of the motherboard 15. Replace 8 screws for top lid and one screw for back lid Ok, 4 steps vs. 15. Now, if you need to remove the motherboard from an Apple ][, you remove the 7-8 screws on the bottom, lift the cover off, and now the entire motherboard is exposed. Maybe 5-6 screws hold the motherboard in place. Disconnect the power connector, the speaker, and the keyboard, and lift the motherboard out. Not totally trivial? You're much more capable than that, Tony. > To be fair, just about all consumer-grade microcomputers have some > less-than-ideal design featuers, and to single one machine out because of > the number of screws that hold the CPU board in place is rather unfair... No it's not. If it takes 23 screws to insert an option then that's a shit design. At least with the Atari or C64, to add a peripheral you simply plugged it into the serial chain. More consumer friendly. Again, I am guessing this is why Radio Shack wanted you to bring your computer into a service center to upgrade it. It was not meant for casual consumer hacking. > > > You have a full 6809 expansion bus on the side of the machine. What more > > > do you want? > > > > A composite video output ;) > > And I've already told you where to find this. At least Radio Shack sold Um, let me qualify that then: a compositve video output already built-in so I don't have to hack one into it. > proper technical manuals (with full schematics) for a sane price (I think > I paid \pounds 0.99 for the CoCo one, off the shelf in the local Tandy > shop). Which is more than many manufactueres ever did... Hello? Apple included full technical specs and schematics with every Apple ][ sold. It wasn't until the Apple //e that they got greedy and made you buy a separate volume for that, but it was still available. Ditto for the Commodore 64 and I imagine the Atari 800. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 24 21:34:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Aug 24, 2 11:03:31 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2381 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020824/de00dede/attachment.ksh From mythtech at mac.com Sat Aug 24 21:43:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: Conclusion: Commodore 64 *is* lame! Message-ID: >Worse, I can't get the video to work if I plug the cable into the back of >the 1702. I can only get it to work with the composite connector on the >front. Maybe it's because I still don't have the right cable. Whatever. >This is a nightmare. The rear connectors on that monitor are Y/C connectors, not Color Composite. So unless the cable is dumping out a Y/C signal, it might not work there (although, IIRC, you should still get a B&W image when plugged into one of the two channels... so maybe the rear inputs on that monitor are broken?) I also recall a switch back there for something. I can't verify as I sent my 1702 to Toth along with a complete C64 system (which I have regretted ever since, as it was a very complete system... but I suppose with him it has a better home where it is really being used, as compared to me where it probably would have sat in a box for the rest of time) -chris From dancohoe at oxford.net Sat Aug 24 21:54:00 2002 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: RT-11 - Jerome Fine Message-ID: <000b01c24be2$854f6420$6401a8c0@DCOHOE> A message for those interested in the RT-11 project, Jerry asked me to notify the list that he is having some ISP trouble and will not be available by email for another week. If anyone has been trying to contact him, he is still around, just off the net for a while. If there's a burning need to contact him , I can get a message to him. Dan Cohoe From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Aug 24 22:54:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: These darned old computers References: Message-ID: <3D68540D.5010108@jetnet.ab.ca> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > True, but that doesn't excuse RS for making the CoCo2 so cut-rate. The same can be said of all the computers that came out in that era. Look at the PC -- crap with a big blue name. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Aug 24 23:29:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 *is* heavenly! (was Re: Conclusion: Commodore 64 *is* lame!) In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Aug 24, 2 10:48:17 am" Message-ID: <200208250437.VAA08320@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Worse, I can't get the video to work if I plug the cable into the back of > the 1702. I can only get it to work with the composite connector on the > front. Maybe it's because I still don't have the right cable. Whatever. > This is a nightmare. What is the switch setting in the back? Red to chroma, yellow to luma, white to audio. > See, this is why I have such a poor opinion of the Commodore 64. Sure, > technically it's a nice computer. But practically, it's a pile of [...] Now, please don't judge us by the oddities of our video ports :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Wherever I go, there's I AM. ----------------------------------------------- From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Aug 24 23:33:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: PIP (was: copyatob In-Reply-To: <3D67C743.4615.1D19E87@localhost> Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Aug 2002, Mike Davis wrote: > No, I figured out the pip.com I guess. > > pip B=filename = a=filename, unless there is something else I should > know other than that. well,... colons! For people coming from the PC-DOS world, it takes a little getting used to "target" = "source", instead of "source" "target" And there were a few command line options that might be useful (such as going all of the way to the end of a binary file, rather than stopping when hitting what appeared to bean EOF character.) From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Aug 24 23:40:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It is important to consider which "options" were considered by the manufacturer to be user-installable. RS did NOT think that a user could/should install a serial port! It's a little like replacing an automobile drainpan gasket - NOT intended for field replacement. And, as to the Coco,... The stories appear to be true that RS DELIBERATELY packaged the Coco in order to PREVENT expansion, competition with their other models, or even serious usage. (consider their choice of video mode(s), RF video out ONLY, etc.) From ipscone at msdsite.com Sat Aug 24 23:43:01 2002 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: PIP (was: copyatob In-Reply-To: References: <3D67C743.4615.1D19E87@localhost> Message-ID: <3D67FC76.16095.2A17803@localhost> Sorry, typo. I'm using version 1.3 and my documentation is for v2.2 so it's a little off. In 2.2 one can copy all files from a: to b: with: pip b:=a:*.*[v] but in 1.3 I get an error. anyone know if full disk of files can be copied or must I do it one file at a time? > On Sat, 24 Aug 2002, Mike Davis wrote: > > No, I figured out the pip.com I guess. > > > > pip B=filename = a=filename, unless there is something else I should > > know other than that. > > well,... > colons! > > For people coming from the PC-DOS world, it takes a little getting > used to "target" = "source", instead of "source" "target" > > > And there were a few command line options that might be useful (such > as going all of the way to the end of a binary file, rather than > stopping when hitting what appeared to bean EOF character.) > > > From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sat Aug 24 23:51:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Aug 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > And, as to the Coco,... > The stories appear to be true that RS DELIBERATELY packaged the Coco in > order to PREVENT expansion, competition with their other models, or even > serious usage. (consider their choice of video mode(s), RF video out ONLY, > etc.) Umm. I've a CoCo 3 with integrated RF /and/ composite video out. So, if you went for the high-end model, Radio Shack provided users with that option. -brian. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Aug 24 23:57:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > And, as to the Coco,... > > The stories appear to be true that RS DELIBERATELY packaged the Coco in > > order to PREVENT expansion, competition with their other models, or even > > serious usage. (consider their choice of video mode(s), RF video out ONLY, > > etc.) On Sat, 24 Aug 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > Umm. I've a CoCo 3 with integrated RF /and/ composite video out. So, > if you went for the high-end model, Radio Shack provided users with that > option. That model came MUCH later, after RS learned the hard way about how their users felt about certain of their decisions (such as "chiclets keyboards!) From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 25 02:04:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: Conclusion: Commodore 64 *is* lame! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020825070345.9581.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > > So how come none of you C64 experts piped up to tell me that the video > connector on the C64 changed over time? The later one had more pins, and > the C64 video cable (that I searched all over for and finally found) only > plugs into the newer style connector. It won't plug into the older ones > because there are too many pins. Only the Rev A mobo has 5 pins. Most (nearly all surviving) units have a DIN-8 video connector, but only the 5 pins of a DIN-5 are essential to get sound and video. > Worse, I can't get the video to work if I plug the cable into the back of > the 1702. I can only get it to work with the composite connector on the > front. Maybe it's because I still don't have the right cable. Whatever. > This is a nightmare. Since you haven't mentioned if you are familiar with the 1702, let me ask a (possible dumb) question - do you have the switch on the back in the correct position? It's one way to use the chroma/luma inputs on the back, the other way to use the composite input on the front. If you want to use the chroma/luma inputs (recommended since they produce a sharper image), start by identifying your cables. Look at the back of the C-64 manual and use a continuity meter to verify which color RCA jack is chroma and which is luma on your particular cables. Once you have it set, just move the DIN-5 from machine to machine to verify if they produce video or not. > See, this is why I have such a poor opinion of the Commodore 64. Sure, > technically it's a nice computer. But practically, it's a pile of shit. If you ensure you have the right cable, it's trivial. One "problem" with them using a generic connector for video is that people will try anything that fits. I used to use an *audio* DIN-5 to RCA cable. It had red, black, grey and white taps. It did *not* match the color scheme of the 1702, but that's *my* fault for not paying for a Commodore cable. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Sun Aug 25 08:03:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: These darned old computers References: Message-ID: <002301c24c37$c7f7e720$3200a8c0@winnt> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > > It's a little like replacing an automobile drainpan gasket - NOT intended > for field replacement. > Sure it is - if you have the right tools. I replaced my oil pan gasket earlier this year. It wasn't that difficult. Here is the procedure I used: 1. Build new engine in basement over the winter. Add in lots of options like flat-top pistions, performance cam, hi-flow intake, hi-flow carb, performance crank shaft 2. Remove old engine with leaking seals, no compression, worn out bearings 3. Install new engine ob. classiccmp stuff: During the replacement, I removed the vintage engine control computer, since it didn't know squat about the new engine and wouldn't have been able to control it. Went from about a billion wires running to the engine to a total of six - two for the distributor, two for the coil, and one each for the temp sensor and oil pressure sensor. Any one interested in an engine control computer for a 1982 Ford 302 motor? From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sun Aug 25 08:19:01 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: Conclusion: Commodore 64 *is* lame! References: Message-ID: <3D68D862.80AE398A@ccp.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > So how come none of you C64 experts piped up to tell me that the video > connector on the C64 changed over time? The later one had more pins, and > the C64 video cable (that I searched all over for and finally found) only > plugs into the newer style connector. It won't plug into the older ones > because there are too many pins. Didn't I make a previous post about that? Older 64's had a 5 pin DIN; later they went to 8 pin DIN but the 5 pin plug just happens to fit the 8 pin; same pinout works on either one. At least it does on my machines. > See, this is why I have such a poor opinion of the Commodore 64. Sure, > technically it's a nice computer. But practically, it's a pile of shit. Hey we all learned about them when commodore was still alive and making money off of us without providing "user support". I feel about calculus the same as you feel about the 64, but that doesn't make me understand what's going on. Gary Hildebrand From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sun Aug 25 08:34:01 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: These darned old computers References: <3D68540D.5010108@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3D68DC19.4C4571A5@ccp.com> Ben Franchuk wrote: > Look at the PC -- crap with a big blue name. Is that how IBM came to be known as I've Been Moved? Gary Hildebrand From nerdware at laidbak.com Sun Aug 25 08:47:01 2002 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: I hate to do this, but...FA Osborne 1 with orig. software Message-ID: <3D6898D0.545.5468E5DE@localhost> It's time to thin the herd.... I don't have time for the old computers anymore, so I'll be clearing out the rest of my collection over the next couple of weeks. Last time I tried to offer stuff here with "make an offer", I got no responses, so I went the epay route this time. If you're interested, it's an original beige case model. It lights up, but drive access seems to be down. Has original disks in original box, including CP/M, CP/M utilities, MS BASIC, Supercalc, and Wordstar with the keyboard overlay. AC cord cover is intact. Aside from yellowing, it's in great shape. The auction is at:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=20479715 73&rd=1 Thanks. Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From rcini at optonline.net Sun Aug 25 09:09:01 2002 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: ANN: New Altair32 Emulator Release Message-ID: Hello, all: I wanted to drop a quick note to the list to let everyone know that I've just posted a "dot 10" release of the Altair32 Emulator. Normally I wouldn't release a minor revision such as this, but a heavy user of the emulator has found some minor errors in the disk image code that causes corruption of the disk images after repeated use of the image. He also found an error in the binary file handling code that, upon looking at the changes history, has been around since version my first version. So, if anyone has been using version 2.3, please download and begin using version 2.30.10. Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1972 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020825/e959d8e8/winmail.bin From jamesl at bestweb.net Sun Aug 25 10:48:01 2002 From: jamesl at bestweb.net (James E. LaBarre) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: Sanyo MBC-555 - help? References: Message-ID: <3D68FC1E.6010400@bestweb.net> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >>Try MS-DOS 1.25. Or, if you want to be truly retro, >>CP/M 86. :) This should work according to: >>http://www.digidome.nl/sanyo.htm > > Whether or not THAT says that it will work, be aware that MS-DOS 1.25 is > an OEMed version, and each and every company that built a computer that > used it had a mutually incompatible version of it. SANYO MS-DOS 1.25 > would certainly work. Morrow MS-DOS 1.25 won't, etc. Anyone tried FreeDOS on these sort of "semi-PC-compatable" systems? If you felt ambitious (and can program, which I can't), you could probably tweak the OS for your particular configuration. Maybe even submit patches back for others to custom-compile FreeDOS kernels for their own systems. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 25 11:07:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <3D68DC19.4C4571A5@ccp.com> Message-ID: <20020825160705.41099.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gary Hildebrand wrote: > Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > Look at the PC -- crap with a big blue name. > > Is that how IBM came to be known as I've Been Moved? Presuming your question is not sarcastic (didn't see any smileys), Big Blue was known as that a long time before the PeeCee. It was their practice of reassigning people from facility to facility enough to be intrusive. I don't have numbers, but I have heard stories from folks about working in multiple cities over their careers. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Aug 25 12:01:15 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <002301c24c37$c7f7e720$3200a8c0@winnt> Message-ID: > > It's a little like replacing an automobile drainpan gasket - NOT intended > > for field replacement. On Sun, 25 Aug 2002, Christopher McNabb wrote: > Sure it is - if you have the right tools. I replaced my oil pan gasket > earlier this year. It wasn't that difficult. Here is the procedure I used: NO. With the right tools, tasks that were not intended for field replacement can, indeed, be done in the field, regardless of what the manufacturer intended. THAT does not change that they were not intended for field replacement. I can easily install a serial port for a model 3 in the field. But it was NOT intended for field installation. It was intended to be a factory, or "service center" installation. RS was even into putting sealant ("glyptol"?) on case screws to void warranties if field mods were made. I can overhaul an engine under a tree. But it was NOT intended to be done in the field. It was intended to be done in a "fully equipped service center". From foo at siconic.com Sun Aug 25 12:10:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 25 Aug 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > And just how often do you intend to install a serial card? I've taken my > M3 and M4 totally apart _once_ (this included removing the serial card, > and refitting it later). It's not something I intend doing very often... Granted, but that doesn't negate the fact that it's a shit design. Also, when I was using my Apple ][ in my younger days, I would regularly swap out different cards that had different functions. So having a nice, convenient, friendly way to do this was nice. > > Now, if you need to remove the motherboard from an Apple ][, you remove > > the 7-8 screws on the bottom, lift the cover off, and now the entire > > motherboard is exposed. Maybe 5-6 screws hold the motherboard in place. > > Plus : Removing all the add-on cards, remembering which slots they go > into, where the jumpers/kludgeboards go for things like 80 column cards, > PAL encoder, sound card, etc. Well, maybe remembering what slot your sound card went into taxes your memory capacity, Tony, but I never had a problem with it. Plus, how many times do you ever have to take the motherboard out of your Apple for any reason? In all the years I had mine, I never had to. Anything I wanted access to I could get to from popping the lid. Why are you needlessly dragging this argument out? > > Hello? Apple included full technical specs and schematics with every > > Apple ][ sold. It wasn't until the Apple //e that they got greedy and > > made you buy a separate volume for that, but it was still available. > > It may have been 'officially' available, but it was next-to-impossible to > get the //e technical manual in the UK. I managed to get one about 4 > years ago, after I'd been seriously looking for many years. I've never > seen a //c technical manaul, although I believe it existed. "'Officially'"? It *was* available. And as I clearly state above, every Apple ][ shipped with one. There was one for the Apple //e but you had to purchase it separately. It was an item you could order through any bookstore as far as I know. Maybe the bookstores in the UK were deliberately witholding it from you. > Contrast that with what happened when I got my CoCos and M100. Walked > into the local Tandy shop, picked up a technical manual off the shelf. > And it was a lot cheaper than the //e technical manaul (but no less > complete IMHO). Congratulations. > I have never seen an Atari 400 or 800 schematic. I am told there was a > manual published that contained it, but I tried for many weeks to get it > (again, many years ago), and gave up in the end. It certainly didn't > come with the machine, and the main Atari dealers in London had never > heard of it. De Re Atari was the definitive Atari reference manual with schematics and everything. Most everyone who ever owned an Atari 800 knew about it. It was readily available. Again, maybe the UK dealers were conspiring against you. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sun Aug 25 12:12:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:49 2005 Subject: Conclusion: Commodore 64 *is* lame! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Aug 2002, Chris wrote: > The rear connectors on that monitor are Y/C connectors, not Color > Composite. So unless the cable is dumping out a Y/C signal, it might not > work there (although, IIRC, you should still get a B&W image when plugged > into one of the two channels... so maybe the rear inputs on that monitor > are broken?) From foo at siconic.com Sun Aug 25 12:12:24 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:50 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <3D68540D.5010108@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Aug 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > True, but that doesn't excuse RS for making the CoCo2 so cut-rate. > The same can be said of all the computers that came out in that era. > Look at the PC -- crap with a big blue name. No it can't. Some computers of that era were much better made than others. Some were complete shit, cobbled together with whatever parts came down the supply chain that week. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sun Aug 25 12:14:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:50 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Aug 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > And, as to the Coco,... > The stories appear to be true that RS DELIBERATELY packaged the Coco in > order to PREVENT expansion, competition with their other models, or even > serious usage. (consider their choice of video mode(s), RF video out ONLY, > etc.) Good luck convincing Tony "I took the machine home and brought it to bits so that I could properly document it" Duell of this. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sun Aug 25 12:15:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:50 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Aug 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > On Sat, 24 Aug 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > And, as to the Coco,... > > The stories appear to be true that RS DELIBERATELY packaged the Coco in > > order to PREVENT expansion, competition with their other models, or even > > serious usage. (consider their choice of video mode(s), RF video out ONLY, > > etc.) > > Umm. I've a CoCo 3 with integrated RF /and/ composite video out. So, > if you went for the high-end model, Radio Shack provided users with that > option. Two different models of computer. We're talking about the CoCo2. The CoCo3 is definitely a leap forward in many regards. The CoCo2 only has an RF video out. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sun Aug 25 12:18:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:50 2005 Subject: Conclusion: Commodore 64 *is* lame! In-Reply-To: <20020825070345.9581.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 25 Aug 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Only the Rev A mobo has 5 pins. Most (nearly all surviving) units > have a DIN-8 video connector, but only the 5 pins of a DIN-5 are > essential to get sound and video. Ethan, you're talking to a guy who has around 150 "surviving units" :) I have a good enough sampling of them that I get flustered by the hardware differences between them. > Since you haven't mentioned if you are familiar with the 1702, let me > ask a (possible dumb) question - do you have the switch on the back > in the correct position? It's one way to use the chroma/luma inputs > on the back, the other way to use the composite input on the front. Yes, I figured that out pretty quick. The problem was the older units (with the 5-pin DIN) not having chroma and luma signals; only composite. > If you ensure you have the right cable, it's trivial. One "problem" > with them using a generic connector for video is that people will > try anything that fits. I used to use an *audio* DIN-5 to RCA cable. > It had red, black, grey and white taps. It did *not* match the > color scheme of the 1702, but that's *my* fault for not paying for > a Commodore cable. The problem was not knowing that the C64 changed its design at some point. Now I'm a bit wiser. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Aug 25 12:29:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:50 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 25 Aug 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Two different models of computer. We're talking about the CoCo2. The > CoCo3 is definitely a leap forward in many regards. > The CoCo2 only has an RF video out. I was talking about the Coco. You've got a model that is a leap forward in many regards. Yours was even intended to have more than 16K of RAM! From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Aug 25 12:41:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:50 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > And, as to the Coco,... > > The stories appear to be true that RS DELIBERATELY packaged the Coco in > > order to PREVENT expansion, competition with their other models, or even > > serious usage. (consider their choice of video mode(s), RF video out ONLY, > > etc.) On Sun, 25 Aug 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Good luck convincing Tony "I took the machine home and brought it to bits > so that I could properly document it" Duell of this. MOST or RS's efforts to mispackage it won't stop a determined hacker who is adept with engineering knowledge or a soldering iron. I hooked up composite video on mine the first day, but waited almost a week before increasing the RAM. But they can sure be annoying to somebody who wants a retail product to be ready to use. And they can be exceptionally exasperating when you compare it with what they COULD HAVE done. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Aug 25 13:31:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:50 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 25 Aug 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Sun, 25 Aug 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Two different models of computer. We're talking about the CoCo2. The > > CoCo3 is definitely a leap forward in many regards. > > The CoCo2 only has an RF video out. > > I was talking about the Coco. > You've got a model that is a leap forward in many regards. > Yours was even intended to have more than 16K of RAM! Admittedly, the original CoCo was a terribly lame computer system. I can say this because my first home computer, as a wee little fellow in my 7th year, was a 4KB CoCo with a cassette recorder for storage. Last night I did a little searching on the net, curious about the history of the system, and found that it was introduced in 1980 at a price of US$399. From what little I know of home computer prices around that time, it seems like a fairly inexpensive system. My questions are: what other systems were in the same price range as the original CoCo when it was introduced, and what were their feature sets? -brian. From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Aug 25 15:22:00 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:50 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >De Re Atari was the definitive Atari reference manual with schematics and >everything. Most everyone who ever owned an Atari 800 knew about it. It >was readily available. Again, maybe the UK dealers were conspiring >against you. Did it have hardware information? My copy of 'De Re Atari' is all from the programming perspective and didn't include any schematics or other hardware info unless it applied to programming, such as the memory maps and such. Still an excellent source of information though. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 25 16:18:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:50 2005 Subject: Conclusion: Commodore 64 *is* lame! In-Reply-To: from "Chris" at Aug 24, 2 10:43:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1242 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020825/26835074/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 25 16:18:40 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:50 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <002301c24c37$c7f7e720$3200a8c0@winnt> from "Christopher McNabb" at Aug 25, 2 09:03:17 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 516 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020825/63814401/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 25 16:19:02 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:50 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Aug 24, 2 09:39:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1699 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020825/17952125/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 25 16:19:20 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:50 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Aug 25, 2 02:09:06 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3399 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020825/1e5a7d1f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 25 16:19:37 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:50 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Aug 25, 2 10:40:44 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1524 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020825/d80699f4/attachment.ksh From red at bears.org Sun Aug 25 16:51:00 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:50 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 25 Aug 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > I only put the 64K RAMs in when I got a disk drive (I wanted to run OS-9 > of course). But I put the 512K card in my CoCo 3 almost as soon as I got > it [ Got CoCo 3 shipped from the States, plugged it into a 110V > transformer over here, proved it worked, pulled the cover, fitted a 240V > transformer and the 512K board). Come on, Tony, isn't it you who's always on about plugging in a machine and seeing if it turns on being the wrong way to check its operational state? There could've been any number of forseeable defects which would've resulted in utter system failure or even fire, that it might have arrived with from the factory. Tzk. No harm in being thorough, you know. ok r. ps. smile. pps. \end{tease} From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 25 17:04:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:50 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: from "r. 'bear' stricklin" at Aug 25, 2 05:50:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1682 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020825/fd6960ec/attachment.ksh From tony.eros at machm.org Sun Aug 25 18:13:00 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:50 2005 Subject: Wanted: Minivac 601 documentation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020825191007.0251b578@mail.njd.concentric.com> I've been looking speculatively at the Tic-Tac-Toe board on my Minivac 601 and want to know how to wire it up to play the game. Has anyone out there scanned the various docs for this system? If not, would anyone be willing to lend their docs to me so I could scan them? I have this odd deja vu feeling that I've asked this question before, but couldn't find any old mail to confirm it. Thanks! -- Tony From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Aug 26 00:11:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:50 2005 Subject: HP gear In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I've just come across an HP 9000/300 and 9000/220 in a dumpster over here > at University Salvage. I see that the 300 has a 68010 (first one I've > owned), but am not sure about the 220. Both have video and 'keyboard' > connections. Here's a list of cards in the 220: 09836-66510 CPU board? 09920-66534 "Keyboard / HP-IB for 9920A" 98644-66502 "RS 232C 98644A" 98204-66576 & 98204-66575 "Composite Video 98204A" 98640-66501 "98640A" I/O board? (2 of these) 98257-66524 ?? 98623-66501 "BCD 98623A" 98635-66502 ?? 98623-66501 "BCD 98623A" 98622-66501 "GPIO 98622A" And now for the 300: 98620B 98257-66524 98622-66502 "GPIO 98622A" 98561-66512 "512A" CPU board with MC68010 -- Pat From sieler at allegro.com Mon Aug 26 01:36:00 2002 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:50 2005 Subject: HP Apollo Series 700 model 705 In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020821091426.013e77ec@pop1.epm.net.co> References: <3D6344F5.4060607@aconit.org> Message-ID: <3D6516B0.28377.10755496@localhost> Re: > The 705 has a PA-7000 cpu clocked at 33MHz. You can run HPUX 8.07-9.07 > through 10.01-10.20 in it. There were several versions of the 705 From jwest at imail.kwcorp.com Mon Aug 26 01:36:28 2002 From: jwest at imail.kwcorp.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:50 2005 Subject: novell stuff free for shipping Message-ID: <007801c24aa7$773d5fe0$9701a8c0@kwcorp.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative From elmo at mminternet.com Mon Aug 26 01:36:46 2002 From: elmo at mminternet.com (elmo@mminternet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:50 2005 Subject: Free in Santa Monica; Commodore Pet 8032 Message-ID: <20020824055617.902CA70F76@mail.mminternet.com> Missing a few keycaps, status unknown. Contact me off-list. From karl at jagegud.com Mon Aug 26 01:37:05 2002 From: karl at jagegud.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Karl_Bernst=E5l?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: MMD-1 / Mini-Micro Designer programming Message-ID: <001a01c24b69$49710c70$b22dd0d9@jools> Hello. I just subscribed to this list because I got my hands on an MMD-1. My teacher in digital tech was going to throw it away but I managed to stop him. He had already gotten rid of the instruction book. My problem is that I've never programmed anything like this before, and I'm having a hard time understanding anything of it. I have read a few threads in this list about the MMD-1, but they didn't help much. Let's say I want to put a number in one of the ports, how do I do that? address data mnemonic comment ------- ----------- -------- -------------------------------------- 004 000 076 123 MVI A<-123 ; load 123 into A 004 002 323 000 OUT 0 ; write it to port 0 004 004 166 HALT (code from http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/mmd2/programs/setPorts.html, so it's really for the MMD-2 but I think they are quite alike) Now that would put the octal number 123 in port 0, right? How do I enter this into the MMD-1? I've got an octal keypad plus the letters "H,L,G,S,R,A,B,C"... Anyone who knows exactly what they do? /Karl Bernst?l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020826/2c277570/attachment.html From nerdware at ctgonline.org Mon Aug 26 01:45:37 2002 From: nerdware at ctgonline.org (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: I hate to do this, but.. FA Osborne 1 Message-ID: <3D677B53.21443.500D8AB6@localhost> I didn't want to go ebay, but last time I posted here with surplus stuff and asked for offers, I got no response. However, in case you're interested, I have put my Osborne 1 up on ebay. It's an original beige case unit. Monitor lights up, but can't get it to access the drives to boot, which I understand is a common fault amongst surviving Osbornes. The AC cord cover is intact, it's in good cosmetic condition as well, and includes the original disks in the original disk box. The included disks are: CP/M system CP/M Utilities MS Basic Wordstar (includes keyboard overlay) Supercalc. If you want to see it, it's at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2047971573 I'll try offering a bunch of Apple II stuff here on the list in a couple of days.... it's time to get out and concentrate on the things I do have time for. Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From inform3r at optonline.net Mon Aug 26 01:45:56 2002 From: inform3r at optonline.net (Inform3r) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: Want To Buy: VOTRAX SC-01 Message-ID: I'm interested in buying an old Votrax SC-01 chip. If anyone has one please contact me. Thanks, John From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Aug 26 01:46:14 2002 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: Shameless Plug Alert Message-ID: <200208252105040831.16A351A0@192.168.42.129> Hi, gang, Well, I'm back. I may not collect computers much any more (my ham radio and test gear interests have flared, big-time), but I still have some decent stuff to get rid of that I think just might find a good home with some of you. I still come across classic stuff in my travels as well, so I think it's worth it to maintain contact. Here are some links to stuff I currently have listed on Ebay. S-100 system owners should take special note of a couple of the items. ;-) DEC Micro-RSTS 2.1, and various PDP diagnostics and formatters on RX50's: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2048901683 MultiBus Extender boards and a MultiBus prototype board: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1761718677 S-100 Bus Extenders and Prototyping Cards, all unused/NOS: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2048953253 Wombat QBus-to-SMD disk controller: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2048984536 S-100 Bus Passive Backplane Cards (six-slotters): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2048994932 Also: I still have available, for local pickup southeast of Seattle, a MicroVAX 3 (KA650, 32MB RAM) in the BA123 (end table) enclosure, priced at $100.00 or best offer. It includes a Sigma RQD11S SCSI/Qbus host adapter that can work either disk or tape drives, two 760MB SCSI disks, TK50, etc. Last time I fired it up a couple of years ago, it was still booting from the NetBSD load I put on the disks. I don't recall if the Sigma adapter will boot from CD-ROM or not, but I'll throw in an RRD40 and its controller if I can find them. Thanks for putting up with a most shameless plug. Keep the peace(es). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From MichaelDavidson at pacbell.net Mon Aug 26 01:46:39 2002 From: MichaelDavidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: UnixPC 7300 --> 3b2 Message-ID: <3D69C4B2.502CA68C@pacbell.net> FWIW the UnixPC 7300 which was belatedly adopted into the 3B family, and renamed "3B1" by the marketing guys, despite having nothing in common with the other 3B machines, was actually a close cousin of the CT Miniframe. (I'm not sure if Convergent actually manufacured the 7300, but it was certainly their design) From dave at naffnet.org.uk Mon Aug 26 03:15:00 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: These darned old computers References: Message-ID: <3D69E39A.369279A9@naffnet.org.uk> Tony Duell wrote: > > MOST or RS's efforts to mispackage it won't stop a determined hacker who > > is adept with engineering knowledge or a soldering iron. > > Will anything :-). Darn it, HP's trick of heat-staking their calculators > together and using undocumented custom chips hasn't stopped me taking > them apart and modifying them ;-). > > > > > I hooked up composite video on mine the first day, but waited almost a > > So did I. For a very good reason. I was a student at the time. Now in the > UK, you have to buy a license (really a tax) to operate a TV receiver. > Now, a TV set used as a computer monitor doesn't need a license, but it > can be difficult to convince the authorities that you don't use it to > watch TV as well. Unfortunately, the licence now applies if you have equipment capable of receiving TV transmissions, regardless of the purpose for which it used, so you can try to convince the authorities all you like... A monitor, as you used, always avoids the license, so you would still have been safe, but even owning a VCR or TV and keeping it in the loft requires a license now. Cheers, Dave. From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Aug 26 04:06:00 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: novell stuff free for shipping In-Reply-To: <007801c24aa7$773d5fe0$9701a8c0@kwcorp.com> References: <007801c24aa7$773d5fe0$9701a8c0@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: Hi Jay, If nobody else has shown an interest in the Novell stuff, I'll take it. Thanks Jeff >I'm not up on novell, so my apologies if this doesn't meet the 10 >year rule.... > >I was just offered a complete set of Novell 4.11 manuals & software, >plus a CNE study guide. It's going in the trash tomorrow morning >unless someone wants it. Free for the cost of shipping. > >Jay West -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020826/37186f8e/attachment.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Aug 26 08:39:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: Rescue needed: Xerox 820-II Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020826091803.508709dc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> This sounds like a good opportunity for someone to obtain an instant XEROX collection! Contact Brian directly. Joe >From: sses >To: rigdonj@cfl.rr.com >Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 07:44:09 -0000 >Subject: Xerox 820-II >X-Mailer: Opera 6.0 build 1010 > >Hello Joe, > >I saw your note in the CPM news group re Xerox 820s. I have several >boxes of manuals/disks for the Xerox 820-II. Plus I have a Xerox 820-II >(16/8 bit) and few unopened boxes of a unknow Xerox 820 hardware >related items that were mailed to me seven years ago. I never had the >time to open and use them. > >Do you know of anyone in the Western New York (Rochester) area that >would like to have all of these items for free. They would have to pick >them up... I don't have the means to ship them. It will require a van or >truck... > >If I can't find someone to pick them up I will have to put them on the >curb..... that would a painful decision. > >Brian > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Aug 26 08:41:41 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: MMD-1 / Mini-Micro Designer programming In-Reply-To: <001a01c24b69$49710c70$b22dd0d9@jools> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020826093211.50a721be@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Karl, It's a real shame that your father threw out the instructions. The MMDs are pretty scarce and I've never seen the instructions for them. I used to have one but gave mine to Mike Haas. There were also a couple (with a bunch of add on cards) that were sold on E-bay recently. They were located in Australia. Joe At 02:25 PM 8/24/02 +0200, you wrote: >Hello. >I just subscribed to this list because I got my hands on an MMD-1. My teacher in digital tech was going to throw it away but I managed to stop him. He had already gotten rid of the instruction book. My problem is that I've never programmed anything like this before, and I'm having a hard time understanding anything of it. I have read a few threads in this list about the MMD-1, but they didn't help much. Let's say I want to put a number in one of the ports, how do I do that? > >address data mnemonic comment >------- ----------- -------- -------------------------------------- >004 000 076 123 MVI A<-123 ; load 123 into A >004 002 323 000 OUT 0 ; write it to port 0 >004 004 166 HALT > >(code from http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/mmd2/programs/setPorts.html, so it's really for the MMD-2 but I think they are quite alike) > >Now that would put the octal number 123 in port 0, right? >How do I enter this into the MMD-1? > >I've got an octal keypad plus the letters "H,L,G,S,R,A,B,C"... Anyone who knows exactly what they do? > >/Karl Bernst?l > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\MMD-1Min.htm" > From dbwood at kc.rr.com Mon Aug 26 09:00:00 2002 From: dbwood at kc.rr.com (Douglas Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: Rescue needed: Xerox 820-II References: <3.0.6.16.20020826091803.508709dc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <009601c24d08$14b0bf80$6401a8c0@kc.rr.com> What are you asking for the '820 stuff? Douglas Wood Software Engineer dbwood@kc.rr.com ICQ#: 143841506 Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC http://epicis.piclist.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 9:18 AM Subject: Rescue needed: Xerox 820-II > This sounds like a good opportunity for someone to obtain an instant XEROX collection! Contact Brian directly. > > Joe > > > >From: sses > >To: rigdonj@cfl.rr.com > >Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 07:44:09 -0000 > >Subject: Xerox 820-II > >X-Mailer: Opera 6.0 build 1010 > > > >Hello Joe, > > > >I saw your note in the CPM news group re Xerox 820s. I have several > >boxes of manuals/disks for the Xerox 820-II. Plus I have a Xerox 820-II > >(16/8 bit) and few unopened boxes of a unknow Xerox 820 hardware > >related items that were mailed to me seven years ago. I never had the > >time to open and use them. > > > >Do you know of anyone in the Western New York (Rochester) area that > >would like to have all of these items for free. They would have to pick > >them up... I don't have the means to ship them. It will require a van or > >truck... > > > >If I can't find someone to pick them up I will have to put them on the > >curb..... that would a painful decision. > > > >Brian > > > > > > > > From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Aug 26 09:28:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: [OT] UK TV Licenses (was Re: These darned old computers) In-Reply-To: <3D69E39A.369279A9@naffnet.org.uk> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk wrote: > Unfortunately, the licence now applies if you have equipment capable of > receiving TV transmissions, regardless of the purpose for which it used, so > you can try to convince the authorities all you like... > > A monitor, as you used, always avoids the license, so you would still have > been safe, but even owning a VCR or TV and keeping it in the loft requires a > license now. Ok, now you've got me wondering... I've never heard of anything like that on this side of the pond. Why exactly do you have to purchase a license to own a TV? Is it similar for AM/FM radios? ... From curt at atari-history.com Mon Aug 26 09:30:01 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: Want To Buy: VOTRAX SC-01 References: Message-ID: <00d001c24d0c$cd0ad260$0b00a8c0@cvendel> John, Try Best Electronics: www.best-electronics-ca.com they have a huge chips selection for Atari's the SC-01 was going to be used in the unreleased Atari 1400XL and the earlier version of the unreleased Atari 1450XLD, Brad may have a few SC-01's in inventory when he bought out Atari's stock. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Inform3r" To: Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 11:48 PM Subject: Want To Buy: VOTRAX SC-01 > I'm interested in buying an old Votrax SC-01 chip. If anyone has one > please contact me. > > Thanks, > John > From meltie at myrealbox.com Mon Aug 26 09:46:01 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: [OT] UK TV Licenses (was Re: These darned old computers) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1030373472.3138.1.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> On Mon, 2002-08-26 at 15:27, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk wrote: > > > Unfortunately, the licence now applies if you have equipment capable of > > receiving TV transmissions, regardless of the purpose for which it used, so > > you can try to convince the authorities all you like... > > > > A monitor, as you used, always avoids the license, so you would still have > > been safe, but even owning a VCR or TV and keeping it in the loft requires a > > license now. > > Ok, now you've got me wondering... I've never heard of anything like that > on this side of the pond. Why exactly do you have to purchase a license > to own a TV? Is it similar for AM/FM radios? ... The money goes to the BBC (British Broadcasting Corp), and I feel it is well worth the relatively small amount per person to get such great, ad-less TV. Before you UKers tag me on the "great TV" bit, just think about channel 5, on channel 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. Alex -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Aug 26 10:00:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: UnixPC 7300 --> 3b2 In-Reply-To: <3D69C4B2.502CA68C@pacbell.net> References: <3D69C4B2.502CA68C@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <20020826151943.GB14406@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Michael Davidson, from writings of Sun, Aug 25, 2002 at 11:03:30PM -0700: > FWIW the UnixPC 7300 which was belatedly adopted into the > 3B family, and renamed "3B1" by the marketing guys, despite The 7300 and 3B1 are not exactly alike... doesn't anyone here read the FAQs and other info. from the old 3B1/7300 archive (not sure if it still exists) before posting info. about these machines? Granted, they're basically the same machine, but there are a couple of minor differences, including the design of the case, etc. > having nothing in common with the other 3B machines, was > actually a close cousin of the CT Miniframe. (I'm not sure > if Convergent actually manufacured the 7300, but it was > certainly their design) That info. has been known by 3B1/7300 users for many years, and looking in the the FAQ, etc. will reveal the answer. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 26 10:02:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: Want To Buy: VOTRAX SC-01 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020826150211.92816.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Inform3r wrote: > I'm interested in buying an old Votrax SC-01 chip. If anyone has one > please contact me. No kidding... I'm looking for one, too! Mine is for the card set from the Gorf arcade machine. I have one complete Gorf machine (except for the 19" Electrohome monitor - it died whilst on loan at a friend's house) and one spare card set, minus the SC-01. I got the card cages (6 cards, RAM, ROM, I/O, etc.) from a local surplus house that's now in a trendy part of town - when I was a kid, the entire area was run down and full of scrappers and strip clubs. :-) The boards worked fine, but they had no home. I rigged up a wiring harness from a variety of scrap - PC 5150 63W PSU, an Atari 2600 joystick and a DEC VR-240(?) color monitor (sync on green required)... it took over the whole table, but it was playable. About 12 years later, I picked up a Gorf box at an arcade auction (it had Galaga boards in it - two of us split it up - I got the case/monitor, the other guy got the Galaga boards). It had been painted over and the controller replaced with a generic one, but the glass and marquee were intact. Less than a year later, I bought an unconverted, broken Gorf from an arcade operator - no glass (shattered), but unpainted and with the original controller. Three different sources, but I did manage to restore a complete Gorf upright. If anyone out there has another one SC-01 for sale (I'll wait my turn), please let me know. Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From wpfulmor at dimensional.com Mon Aug 26 11:27:00 2002 From: wpfulmor at dimensional.com (William Fulmor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: UnixPC 7300 --> 3b2 In-Reply-To: <20020826151943.GB14406@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe Michael Davidson, from writings of Sun, Aug 25, 2002 at > 11:03:30PM -0700: > > FWIW the UnixPC 7300 which was belatedly adopted into the > > 3B family, and renamed "3B1" by the marketing guys, despite At both 'ends' ektually. 6300 --> 7300 --> 3b1 --> 3b? Nice idea. Too bad, like most nice ideas in marketing, it didn't really work. > The 7300 and 3B1 are not exactly alike... doesn't anyone here read the > FAQs and other info. from the old 3B1/7300 archive (not sure if it > still exists) before posting info. about these machines? Granted, > they're basically the same machine, but there are a couple of minor > differences, including the design of the case, etc. > > > having nothing in common with the other 3B machines, was > > actually a close cousin of the CT Miniframe. (I'm not sure > > if Convergent actually manufacured the 7300, but it was > > certainly their design) CT did, in fact, OEM the UnixPC (TM). The CT Mitiframe and Miniframe were binary compatible withe the UnixPC (TM) (for certain values of binary and compatible). > That info. has been known by 3B1/7300 users for many years, and > looking in the the FAQ, etc. will reveal the answer. :-) AAMOF, the 3b1 FAQ was posted to comp.sys.3b1 last nite (8/25/02), as any truly dedicated reader would know :~). Bill From ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 26 11:29:00 2002 From: ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: DG Aviion & 3 phase supplies In-Reply-To: References: from "Chris" at Aug 24, 2 10:43:30 pm Message-ID: <3D6A6535.19948.3480E115@localhost> UK mains question : If I have a DG Aviion computer and it wants feeding with three phase power, is there any way I can get it to work off a single phase supply? thanks, greg From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Mon Aug 26 12:23:00 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: DEC3000/400 - D/UX3.2 & VT420 Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467B2F@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Is it possible to run a VT420 on my DEC 3000/400 (running Digital UNIX 3.2) while also having the PMAGB-B graphics console? IIRC, I cannot use serial port 1, since the I'm using the graphics console... I have the VT420 (9600,8,N,1) hooked to the printer port, using a DEC H8575-A REV B MMJ adaptor. All I got was a ~ (tilde) when I started it up. I also have a H8571-E, and a H8571-F adaptors. Should I be using ones of those instead, with a gender changer? -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Mon Aug 26 12:28:00 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: DEC3000/400 - D/UX3.2 & VT420 Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467B30@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: David Woyciesjes [mailto:DAW@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu] > > > Is it possible to run a VT420 on my DEC 3000/400 > (running Digital > UNIX 3.2) while also having the PMAGB-B graphics console? > IIRC, I cannot use serial port 1, since the I'm using > the graphics > console... I have the VT420 (9600,8,N,1) hooked to the > printer port, using a > DEC H8575-A REV B MMJ adapter. All I got was a ~ (tilde) when > I started it > up. I also have a H8571-E, and a H8571-F adapters. Should I > be using ones of > those instead, with a gender changer? > > -- I'm starting to think I may have to dig up my docs for D/UX at home, and enable something in there first, right? It would be great if this does work, then I can hook it to my terminal server the same way... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Aug 26 12:36:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: References: <3D67A0FB.8070209@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3D6A1F2E.13188.E74680@localhost> In referring to the "360k" do you mean the model (RS 25-1060) that shipped IIRC for the 1000HX ( ?) ? I just checked my COCO M.502 drive and the edge connector is slightly different. It would be nice to have a useable 2nd drive for my CoCos. Lawrence > > >The Radio Shack Color Computer 2 is confusing. And somewhat lame. I have to > > >go find the disk controller carthridge to attach disk drives to it. Then I > > >have to find the proper disk drives. Fine. > > The drives are not much of a problem. TM100-1 with a power supply (-2, or > "360K" will work) Radio Shack did the drive select in the cable. So you > can either make your own cable and do "normal" drive select, or use the RS > cable and jumper all of the drive select positions on. > For running OS-9 (Microware, NOT APPLE!), I'd recommend change the cable > and use DS drives. > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Aug 26 12:50:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: Rescue needed: Xerox 820-II In-Reply-To: <009601c24d08$14b0bf80$6401a8c0@kc.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20020826091803.508709dc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020826135101.3c5fdab4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Doug, I'll take a million dollars for it! That way I can afford to buy a Lear jet and fly to New York and get it and them sell it to you. :-) If you don't want to pay that then maybe you should contact the owner directly like it said in the message. Joe At 08:54 AM 8/26/02 -0500, you wrote: >What are you asking for the '820 stuff? > >Douglas Wood >Software Engineer >dbwood@kc.rr.com >ICQ#: 143841506 > >Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC >http://epicis.piclist.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe" >To: >Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 9:18 AM >Subject: Rescue needed: Xerox 820-II > > >> This sounds like a good opportunity for someone to obtain an instant >XEROX collection! Contact Brian directly. >> >> Joe >> >> >> >From: sses >> >To: rigdonj@cfl.rr.com >> >Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 07:44:09 -0000 >> >Subject: Xerox 820-II >> >X-Mailer: Opera 6.0 build 1010 >> > >> >Hello Joe, >> > >> >I saw your note in the CPM news group re Xerox 820s. I have several >> >boxes of manuals/disks for the Xerox 820-II. Plus I have a Xerox 820-II >> >(16/8 bit) and few unopened boxes of a unknow Xerox 820 hardware >> >related items that were mailed to me seven years ago. I never had the >> >time to open and use them. >> > >> >Do you know of anyone in the Western New York (Rochester) area that >> >would like to have all of these items for free. They would have to pick >> >them up... I don't have the means to ship them. It will require a van >or >> >truck... >> > >> >If I can't find someone to pick them up I will have to put them on the >> >curb..... that would a painful decision. >> > >> >Brian >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Aug 26 13:00:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: DEC3000/400 - D/UX3.2 & VT420 In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467B2F@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Is it possible to run a VT420 on my DEC 3000/400 (running Digital > UNIX 3.2) while also having the PMAGB-B graphics console? > IIRC, I cannot use serial port 1, since the I'm using the graphics > console... I have the VT420 (9600,8,N,1) hooked to the printer port, using a > DEC H8575-A REV B MMJ adaptor. All I got was a ~ (tilde) when I started it > up. I also have a H8571-E, and a H8571-F adaptors. Should I be using ones of > those instead, with a gender changer? If I understand what you want (a text login on the serial terminal, in addition to the console on the PMAG-B?), you just need to turn on a getty for the serial port. IIRC, there's a sample line in inittab. Port 1 should be available as a tty login, even with the graphics console. It just doesn't get turned on by the system. Doc From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Aug 26 13:01:00 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <3D6A1F2E.13188.E74680@localhost> References: <3D67A0FB.8070209@tiac.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020826140209.029aaaa0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Lawrence Walker may have mentioned these words: > In referring to the "360k" do you mean the model (RS 25-1060) that shipped >IIRC for the 1000HX ( ?) ? I just checked my COCO M.502 drive and the edge >connector is slightly different. It would be nice to have a useable 2nd drive >for my CoCos. Larry, The case itself is not compatible with the CoCos, as the ribbon cable has extra connectors for powering the drive... If you take the drive out of the case, it'll be the standard connectors (except maybe power - just hack in a standard "big plug" if necessary) and you can use the drive no problem with your CoCos. With OS-9, you'll just need to sysgen a new boot floppy with the 360K DSDD 60Hz /d1 driver; with RS-DOS you'll need to patch the ROMs, then reburn if you want the changes permenant. Beware: The RS-DOS ROMS assume that both drives are the same size, so only do the mods if you have 2 360K drives! HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From David.Woyciesjes at Yale.edu Mon Aug 26 13:04:01 2002 From: David.Woyciesjes at Yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: DEC3000/400 - D/UX3.2 & VT420 References: Message-ID: <3D6A6DC2.75DFAC27@Yale.edu> Doc Shipley wrote: > > On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > Is it possible to run a VT420 on my DEC 3000/400 (running Digital > > UNIX 3.2) while also having the PMAGB-B graphics console? > > IIRC, I cannot use serial port 1, since the I'm using the graphics > > console... I have the VT420 (9600,8,N,1) hooked to the printer port, using a > > DEC H8575-A REV B MMJ adaptor. All I got was a ~ (tilde) when I started it > > up. I also have a H8571-E, and a H8571-F adaptors. Should I be using ones of > > those instead, with a gender changer? > > If I understand what you want (a text login on the serial terminal, > in addition to the console on the PMAG-B?), you just need to turn on a > getty for the serial port. IIRC, there's a sample line in inittab. > Port 1 should be available as a tty login, even with the graphics > console. It just doesn't get turned on by the system. > > Doc That's what I was figuring, just haven't had the time yet (Paying job takes priority :) to flip through anydocs or anything... Thanks for the starting point, Doc... Has anyone done this successfully? I'll let you know how I make out... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Aug 26 13:31:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: DG Aviion & 3 phase supplies In-Reply-To: <3D6A6535.19948.3480E115@localhost> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020826142733.54f78a56@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Greg, A lot of the systems that use 3 phase power actually have separate power supplies connected to each phase. If your's does then you can probably rewire the input and run all three power supplies off of one pahse. The drawback is that you put all three loads on to one phase so the current load can be SIGNIFICANT. However you can sometimes get around that by removing some of the memory, peripherals, CPUs etc. For example I found a BIG SGI Reality Engine 2 for a friend of mine. It has 1 Gb of physical memory, 16 CPUs and 8 graphics cards in it along with six (IIRC) power supplies. It was set up to run off of 3 phase 240VAC 30 amp service. My buddy removed all the graphics cards but one (he was going to use it in a single user mode anyway). He also removed most of the extra CPUs and about half of the memory. With all that removed he can now run it off of 2 (or3?) power supplies that are all running off of one phase. IIRC his actually operating current is about 22 Amps. That's a lot but with in the limits of what's available in a single family home. Other possiblities are to use a BIG motor generator. You can run the motor off of single phase power and use it to drive a three phase generator. But that may not be very practicle. In my buddies case, he would have needed 90 AMP 1 phase incoming power to supply (rated) 30 Amp 3 phase and that's assuming 100% conversion. The motor and generator would also be huge! Joe At 05:28 PM 8/26/02 +0100, you wrote: >UK mains question : If I have a DG Aviion computer and it wants >feeding with three phase power, is there any way I can get it to work >off a single phase supply? > >thanks, >greg > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Aug 26 13:31:44 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: [OT] UK TV Licenses (was Re: These darned old computers) In-Reply-To: References: <3D69E39A.369279A9@naffnet.org.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020826143047.54f75884@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:27 AM 8/26/02 -0500, you wrote: >On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk wrote: > >> Unfortunately, the licence now applies if you have equipment capable of >> receiving TV transmissions, regardless of the purpose for which it used, so >> you can try to convince the authorities all you like... >> >> A monitor, as you used, always avoids the license, so you would still have >> been safe, but even owning a VCR or TV and keeping it in the loft requires a >> license now. > >Ok, now you've got me wondering... I've never heard of anything like that >on this side of the pond. Why exactly do you have to purchase a license >to own a TV? Is it similar for AM/FM radios? ... Why do we have to pay a tax on telephone service? The answer is the same for both questions. Government revenue! You can claim that it's for this cause or that cause but in reality it's just another source of revenue for big government. Joe > > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Aug 26 13:52:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <3D6A1F2E.13188.E74680@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > In referring to the "360k" do you mean the model (RS 25-1060) that shipped > IIRC for the 1000HX ( ?) ? I just checked my COCO M.502 drive and the edge > connector is slightly different. It would be nice to have a useable 2nd drive > for my CoCos. I don't know what butchery they might have done to later models (probably just putting the power through the ribbon cable). On the original Coco, the drive was interchangeable with the drives for the Model 1 (*), and consisted of a "standard" drive mechanism in a case with power supply, and a card edge extender to bring the 34 pin card edge of the drive to the outside for cable hookup. Radio Shack did the drive select through missing pins in the cable. Each drive had ALL of the drive selects turned on! If you use a more "normal" cable, then open the case and deselect the drive selects that are not wanted. Hmmmm. seems that for drive select 3 (fourth drive), they used a pin that was originally intended for something other than drive select. 34? (side) 6? 8? THAT could complicate things slightly if you need 4 drives, or use the RS cable. (*) NOTE: one exception to the interchange of drives between Coco and Model 1 was that the earliest drives for the model 1 were Shugart Sa400 drives that only went to 35 tracks, and thus would FAIL on the top 5 or so tracks. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From David.Woyciesjes at Yale.edu Mon Aug 26 14:30:00 2002 From: David.Woyciesjes at Yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: DEC3000/400 - D/UX3.2 & VT420 References: <3D6A6DC2.75DFAC27@Yale.edu> Message-ID: <3D6A81D8.9841B4CE@Yale.edu> David Woyciesjes wrote: > > Doc Shipley wrote: > > > > On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > > > Is it possible to run a VT420 on my DEC 3000/400 (running Digital > > > UNIX 3.2) while also having the PMAGB-B graphics console? > > > IIRC, I cannot use serial port 1, since the I'm using the graphics > > > console... I have the VT420 (9600,8,N,1) hooked to the printer port, using a > > > DEC H8575-A REV B MMJ adaptor. All I got was a ~ (tilde) when I started it > > > up. I also have a H8571-E, and a H8571-F adaptors. Should I be using ones of > > > those instead, with a gender changer? > > > > If I understand what you want (a text login on the serial terminal, > > in addition to the console on the PMAG-B?), you just need to turn on a > > getty for the serial port. IIRC, there's a sample line in inittab. > > Port 1 should be available as a tty login, even with the graphics > > console. It just doesn't get turned on by the system. > > > > Doc > That's what I was figuring, just haven't had the time yet (Paying job > takes priority :) to flip through anydocs or anything... Thanks for the > starting point, Doc... > Has anyone done this successfully? I'll let you know how I make out... > -- Cool... Well, lunchtime had arrived, and I had time to read through the man page. Which provided me with enough info to add these two lines to the end of the inittab file... tty00:23:respawn:/usr/sbin/getty /dev/tty00 9600 vt100 tty01:23:respawn:/usr/sbin/getty /dev/tty01 9600 vt100 ... and now I have 2 terminal sessions on my VT420, in addition to my graphics console! Looks like I owe you a beer, Doc. Now, for further playing on my part, to have the VT420 do the console duties, that will probably require more fiddling in inittab, and at the firmware level, too I presume. Or would hitting the S3 switch on the back suffice? I'll have to shutdown and try that... One oddity, though not a problem. Port 1 on the back, which becomes console when there is no graphics present, shows up as tty01, and the second (printer) port shows up as tty00. Not really a problem, as long as I remember which is which when cabling things up and such... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From archer at topnow.com Mon Aug 26 14:33:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: [OT] UK TV Licenses (was Re: These darned old computers) References: <3D69E39A.369279A9@naffnet.org.uk> <3.0.6.16.20020826143047.54f75884@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3D6A825B.42209058@topnow.com> Joe wrote: > > At 09:27 AM 8/26/02 -0500, you wrote: > >On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk wrote: > > > >> Unfortunately, the licence now applies if you have equipment capable of > >> receiving TV transmissions, regardless of the purpose for which it used, so > >> you can try to convince the authorities all you like... > >> > >> A monitor, as you used, always avoids the license, so you would still have > >> been safe, but even owning a VCR or TV and keeping it in the loft requires a > >> license now. > > > >Ok, now you've got me wondering... I've never heard of anything like that > >on this side of the pond. Why exactly do you have to purchase a license > >to own a TV? Is it similar for AM/FM radios? ... > > Why do we have to pay a tax on telephone service? The answer is the same for both questions. Hmm. Unless something radical has changed in recent years, UK television and radio pretty much IS the BBC, which is not supported or funded by commercials like US networks are. It's funded by the license fees and you can see how they're used at http://www.bbc.co.uk. Think of it as PBS on major steroids. The "tax" model has its drawbacks and advantages. A lot fewer commercials, some top-notch progamming, but not nearly as much variety. On the other hand, if you think TV in the US is "Free", you're mistaken. The advertising that funds ABC, CBS, NBC, etc. is simply factored into the cost of nearly every product you buy at the store. TAANSTAAFL. :) -- Ross > Government revenue! You can claim that it's for this cause or that cause but in reality it's just another source of revenue for big government. Well, BBC does produce some kick-ass programs. :) > > Joe > > > > > > From mythtech at mac.com Mon Aug 26 14:39:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: [OT] UK TV Licenses (was Re: These darned old computers) Message-ID: >TAANSTAAFL ?? -chris From dittman at dittman.net Mon Aug 26 14:42:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: [OT] UK TV Licenses (was Re: These darned old computers) In-Reply-To: from "chris" at Aug 26, 2002 03:39:10 PM Message-ID: <200208261939.g7QJd0c15732@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >TAANSTAAFL There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. There's an extra A in there. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From David.Woyciesjes at Yale.edu Mon Aug 26 14:46:00 2002 From: David.Woyciesjes at Yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: DEC3000/400 - D/UX3.2 & VT420 References: <3D6A6DC2.75DFAC27@Yale.edu> <3D6A81D8.9841B4CE@Yale.edu> Message-ID: <3D6A85B4.9E1274F7@Yale.edu> David Woyciesjes wrote: > > David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > > Doc Shipley wrote: > > > > > > On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > > > > > Is it possible to run a VT420 on my DEC 3000/400 (running Digital > > > > UNIX 3.2) while also having the PMAGB-B graphics console? > > > > ... > > > If I understand what you want (a text login on the serial terminal, > > > in addition to the console on the PMAG-B?), you just need to turn on a > > > getty for the serial port. IIRC, there's a sample line in inittab. > > > Port 1 should be available as a tty login, even with the graphics > > > console. It just doesn't get turned on by the system. > > > > > > Doc > Cool... Well, lunchtime had arrived, and I had time to read through the > man page. Which provided me with enough info to add these two lines to > the end of the inittab file... > > tty00:23:respawn:/usr/sbin/getty /dev/tty00 9600 vt100 > tty01:23:respawn:/usr/sbin/getty /dev/tty01 9600 vt100 > > ... and now I have 2 terminal sessions on my VT420, in addition to my > graphics console! Looks like I owe you a beer, Doc. > Now, for further playing on my part, to have the VT420 do the console > duties, that will probably require more fiddling in inittab, and at the > firmware level, too I presume. Or would hitting the S3 switch on the > back suffice? I'll have to shutdown and try that... > One oddity, though not a problem. Port 1 on the back, which becomes > console when there is no graphics present, shows up as tty01, and the > second (printer) port shows up as tty00. Not really a problem, as long > as I remember which is which when cabling things up and such... > > -- Well, all I had to do, was to flip the S3 switch on the back, and comment out the tty01 line in /etc/inittab file... Now to dig around in the docs, because I'm curious about how to get more system messages to show on the VT420 console now... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Aug 26 14:58:00 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: [OT] UK TV Licenses (was Re: These darned old computers) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. g. On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, chris wrote: > >TAANSTAAFL > > ?? > > -chris > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 26 15:18:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: MMD-1 / Mini-Micro Designer programming In-Reply-To: <001a01c24b69$49710c70$b22dd0d9@jools> from "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Karl_Bernst=E5l?=" at Aug 24, 2 02:25:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2723 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020826/f8ab988d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 26 15:19:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <3D69E39A.369279A9@naffnet.org.uk> from "Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk" at Aug 26, 2 09:15:22 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2236 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020826/920de2ad/attachment.ksh From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Aug 26 15:35:00 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: References: <3D6A1F2E.13188.E74680@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020826154656.026d1570@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) may have mentioned these words: >On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > In referring to the "360k" do you mean the model (RS 25-1060) that shipped > > IIRC for the 1000HX ( ?) ? I just checked my COCO M.502 drive and the edge > > connector is slightly different. It would be nice to have a useable 2nd > drive > > for my CoCos. > >I don't know what butchery they might have done to later models (probably >just putting the power through the ribbon cable). That's about it... otherwise it was a standard drive... >On the original Coco, the drive was interchangeable with the drives for >the Model 1 (*), and consisted of a "standard" drive mechanism in a case >with power supply, and a card edge extender to bring the 34 pin card edge >of the drive to the outside for cable hookup. > >Radio Shack did the drive select through missing pins in the cable. Each >drive had ALL of the drive selects turned on! If you use a more >"normal" cable, then open the case and deselect the drive selects that are >not wanted. > >Hmmmm. seems that for drive select 3 (fourth drive), they used a pin that >was originally intended for something other than drive select. 34? (side) >6? 8? >THAT could complicate things slightly if you need 4 drives, or use the RS >cable. Dunno which pin it was, bit it was the Side Select pin that they used, so if you need to use 4 drives, you can only use SS drives... otherwise, the CoCo's limited to 3 DS drives. >(*) NOTE: one exception to the interchange of drives between Coco and >Model 1 was that the earliest drives for the model 1 were Shugart Sa400 >drives that only went to 35 tracks, and thus would FAIL on the top 5 or so >tracks. Noper - RS-DOS is designed for only 35-track operation, so you won't have any problem with those drives. OS-9 also assumes 35 tracks on any bootable software sold thru RS; OS-9's also smart enough to recognize SS floppies if you've booted with DS drivers. HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From dave at naffnet.org.uk Mon Aug 26 15:52:00 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: These darned old computers References: Message-ID: <3D6A94D0.4038B828@naffnet.org.uk> Tony Duell wrote: > > > Now, a TV set used as a computer monitor doesn't need a license, but it > > > can be difficult to convince the authorities that you don't use it to > > > watch TV as well. > > > > Unfortunately, the licence now applies if you have equipment capable of > > receiving TV transmissions, regardless of the purpose for which it used, so > > you can try to convince the authorities all you like... > > HAs this now officially been changed? The authorities have tried to claim > this for many years, but the license documents say otherwise ('a license > for establishing a TV receiving station' or something like that). I'm afraid that this was changed a few years ago, along with the requirement for a vendor to report any TV sale to the licensing authority. > > > > A monitor, as you used, always avoids the license, so you would still have > > been safe, but even owning a VCR or TV and keeping it in the loft requires a > > license now. > > Hmm.. A TV set is not a 'TV receiving station'. This _has_ been legally > tested AFAIK. You need an aerial as well, you see :-). A TV set with no > way of connecting it to an aerial certainly didn't use to need a license. Not any more! Possession of equipment capable of receiving is the new legal yardstick - too easy to hide a set-top aerial, and too easy to watch videos that were recorded (perhaps by someone else) off air. > > > The other thing is that the TV set has to be capable of receiving the > current transmissions. This means that 405 line sets don't need a license > (I have checked this!). Nor do non-working TVs. And non-working basically > means (or used to mean) 'cannot be quickly used to receive TV > programmes'. So if you just unplug the aerial, that doesn't count, But if > you unplug internal connectors, or remove PCBs (even if you then keep > then on top of the set), you don't need a license. Or at least you > didn't a few years ago. Again I checked. I was given a non-working > (mechanical fault) Philips N1500 VCR, and I wanted to keep it in a house > with no TV license. The authorities told me that if I removed the channel > selector board (I suggested this, it is the only plug-in board and it > would disable the tuner if removed), then it was not a 'TV receiving > station' and didn't need a license. The fact that the missing PCB was in > the same room didn't matter. You are right, but then these items are not 'capable of receiving' - they are therefore exempt. Don't put that PCB back, though! :-) > > THis could all have changed now. In which case my junk box would need a > TV license (it contains sufficient components to make a TV set) ;-) Nah, no need to bother... not unless you render it capable. > > > [For the benefit of any TV licensing types reading this, said junk box is > currently at an address that has a valid TV license] > > -tony Sorry to have caused confusion - I hope that that 'capable of receiving' helps. The loophole is still a VCR with no tuner, connected to a video monitor (or via SCART/composite to a TV with no tuner) used to watch recorded-off-air tapes. No doubt it will be plugged soon enough by the powers-that-be. Cheers, Dave. From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Aug 26 16:02:00 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <3D6A94D0.4038B828@naffnet.org.uk> Message-ID: So how much is this silly tv tax anyway? :) g. On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk wrote: > Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > Now, a TV set used as a computer monitor doesn't need a license, but it > > > > can be difficult to convince the authorities that you don't use it to > > > > watch TV as well. > > > > > > Unfortunately, the licence now applies if you have equipment capable of > > > receiving TV transmissions, regardless of the purpose for which it used, so > > > you can try to convince the authorities all you like... > > > > HAs this now officially been changed? The authorities have tried to claim > > this for many years, but the license documents say otherwise ('a license > > for establishing a TV receiving station' or something like that). > > I'm afraid that this was changed a few years ago, along with the requirement for > a vendor to report any TV sale to the licensing authority. > > > > > > > > A monitor, as you used, always avoids the license, so you would still have > > > been safe, but even owning a VCR or TV and keeping it in the loft requires a > > > license now. > > > > Hmm.. A TV set is not a 'TV receiving station'. This _has_ been legally > > tested AFAIK. You need an aerial as well, you see :-). A TV set with no > > way of connecting it to an aerial certainly didn't use to need a license. > > Not any more! Possession of equipment capable of receiving is the new legal > yardstick - too easy to hide a set-top aerial, and too easy to watch videos that > were recorded (perhaps by someone else) off air. > > > > > > > The other thing is that the TV set has to be capable of receiving the > > current transmissions. This means that 405 line sets don't need a license > > (I have checked this!). Nor do non-working TVs. And non-working basically > > means (or used to mean) 'cannot be quickly used to receive TV > > programmes'. So if you just unplug the aerial, that doesn't count, But if > > you unplug internal connectors, or remove PCBs (even if you then keep > > then on top of the set), you don't need a license. Or at least you > > didn't a few years ago. Again I checked. I was given a non-working > > (mechanical fault) Philips N1500 VCR, and I wanted to keep it in a house > > with no TV license. The authorities told me that if I removed the channel > > selector board (I suggested this, it is the only plug-in board and it > > would disable the tuner if removed), then it was not a 'TV receiving > > station' and didn't need a license. The fact that the missing PCB was in > > the same room didn't matter. > > You are right, but then these items are not 'capable of receiving' - they are > therefore exempt. Don't put that PCB back, though! :-) > > > > > THis could all have changed now. In which case my junk box would need a > > TV license (it contains sufficient components to make a TV set) ;-) > > Nah, no need to bother... not unless you render it capable. > > > > > > > [For the benefit of any TV licensing types reading this, said junk box is > > currently at an address that has a valid TV license] > > > > -tony > > Sorry to have caused confusion - I hope that that 'capable of receiving' helps. > The loophole is still a VCR with no tuner, connected to a video monitor (or via > SCART/composite to a TV with no tuner) used to watch recorded-off-air tapes. No > doubt it will be plugged soon enough by the powers-that-be. > > Cheers, > > Dave. > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Aug 26 16:24:00 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >So how much is this silly tv tax anyway? :) I don't know that I'd call it silly since the BBC seems to do a better job than the networks over here and the junk they tend to show. Especially if they don't get interupted by commercials every 8 minutes or so. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Aug 26 16:42:00 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >So how much is this silly tv tax anyway? :) > > I don't know that I'd call it silly since the BBC seems to do > a better job than the networks over here and the junk they tend to > show. Especially if they don't get interupted by commercials every 8 > minutes or so. > Oh I'm sure the BBC content is very good. I enjoy watching BBC America on occasion. However, it's not a voluntary thing. It seems that if you own a device that is technically able to get their signal, you're stuck for the tax. To me, that's silly. It's also a good reason to do your damnedest to avoid the tax if you don't actually watch programs that are delivered over the airwaves. Building a faraday cage around the TV should do nicely. :) I guess it boils down to if you use the service, by all means pay for it, but if you try to charge me for something I don't consume, be prepared to pull back a bloody stump when you stick your hand in my pocket. *grin* I still would like to know how much they're charged. g. From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Aug 26 16:57:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: Heathkit H89a Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020826165523.01afc488@ubanproductions.com> I acquired a Heathkit H89a this last Saturday at a local hamfest, but it did not come with any manuals. Does anyone have one that I can copy and return or which you would be willing to copy for me? Or better yet, is there an extra copy which would be available for a small cost? Also can someone expound on this computer? --tnx --tom From dittman at dittman.net Mon Aug 26 17:10:01 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: from "Gene Buckle" at Aug 26, 2002 02:45:09 PM Message-ID: <200208262206.g7QM6JU16034@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >So how much is this silly tv tax anyway? :) > > I don't know that I'd call it silly since the BBC seems to do > a better job than the networks over here and the junk they tend to > show. Especially if they don't get interupted by commercials every 8 > minutes or so. I'll bet that there's a lot of crap on the BBC and we get (for the most part) the cream of the crop. I say for the most part since we do seem to get a lot of reruns of "Are You Being Served?", "'Allo, 'Allo", and some other crap comedies. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Aug 26 17:33:01 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: UnixPC 7300 --> 3b2 In-Reply-To: References: <20020826151943.GB14406@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20020826225241.GE14406@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe William Fulmor, from writings of Mon, Aug 26, 2002 at 10:26:57AM -0600: > On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > > > Quothe Michael Davidson, from writings of Sun, Aug 25, 2002 at > > 11:03:30PM -0700: > > > > FWIW the UnixPC 7300 which was belatedly adopted into the > > > 3B family, and renamed "3B1" by the marketing guys, despite > > At both 'ends' ektually. 6300 --> 7300 --> 3b1 --> 3b? > > Nice idea. Too bad, like most nice ideas in marketing, it didn't really > work. Perhaps the solution is to eliminate marketing, along with accounting, as both are basically non-productive entities which only contribute to making the world a needlessly more complicated and misleading place in which to live. > AAMOF, the 3b1 FAQ was posted to comp.sys.3b1 last nite (8/25/02), as any > truly dedicated reader would know :~). :-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Aug 26 17:46:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: [OT] UK TV Licenses (was Re: These darned old computers) In-Reply-To: <3D6A825B.42209058@topnow.com> References: <3D69E39A.369279A9@naffnet.org.uk> <3.0.6.16.20020826143047.54f75884@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020826184433.238f1c44@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:32 PM 8/26/02 -0700, Ross wrote: >Joe wrote: >> >> At 09:27 AM 8/26/02 -0500, you wrote: >> >On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk wrote: >> > >> >> Unfortunately, the licence now applies if you have equipment capable of >> >> receiving TV transmissions, regardless of the purpose for which it used, so >> >> you can try to convince the authorities all you like... >> >> >> >> A monitor, as you used, always avoids the license, so you would still have >> >> been safe, but even owning a VCR or TV and keeping it in the loft requires a >> >> license now. >> > >> >Ok, now you've got me wondering... I've never heard of anything like that >> >on this side of the pond. Why exactly do you have to purchase a license >> >to own a TV? Is it similar for AM/FM radios? ... >> >> Why do we have to pay a tax on telephone service? The answer is the same for both questions. > >Hmm. Unless something radical has changed in recent years, >UK television and radio pretty much IS the BBC, which is >not supported or funded by commercials like US networks are. >It's funded by the license fees and you can see how they're >used >at http://www.bbc.co.uk. > >Think of it as PBS on major steroids. > >The "tax" model has its drawbacks and advantages. A lot >fewer >commercials, some top-notch progamming, but not nearly as >much variety. On the other hand, if you think TV in the >US is "Free", you're mistaken. The advertising that funds >ABC, CBS, NBC, etc. is simply factored into the cost of >nearly every product you buy at the store. That's true but most products are still cheaper here than in the UK. Explain that one! Joe From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Aug 26 17:48:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:51 2005 Subject: More NeXT Stuff Message-ID: <00e401c24d52$988909d0$78000240@oemcomputer> After digging into the boxes I got Thursday I found over 150 3.5 FD with various Next software on them and 12 CD's with Next software. Also I got 10 optical disk in cases for the Next along with a Pinnacle Micro external SCSI optical reader, model PMO-650. Got two sound boxes that were in parts and need to be repaired. Will put together a list of the software and send it later. From archer at topnow.com Mon Aug 26 17:49:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: Semi-OT CP/M question/ feasibility Message-ID: <3D6AB068.584771CE@topnow.com> I figure anything CP/M is on-topic, but the hardware I'm talking about would be brand new. :) Are there working examples of CP/M running with just a serial terminal connection and a drive+interface for the sum total I/O? I'm assuming this has been done many times and in theory would be nothing too offbeat? If this exists, it might be useful to study the BIOS to see what's being done there, or perhaps just buy the board and CP/M if by chance something's out there already. Are you giving up anything important with a terminal-based CP/M system vs. one with integral monitor and keyboard -- in other words, cursor positioning and such in applications being less flexible? I'm assuming the answer is "no", no difference because of the way CP/M BDOS calls all go through BIOS? Or is this a "in theory X in practice Y" thing? The reason I'm asking is I've FINALLY -- after about two months of struggle with hardware and coding -- succeeded in getting my IDE interface working. Although it's currently mated to a 6502 board and a 60GB HDD, since it's based on an 82C55, could just as easily be coded to work with a Z80/Z180 system. Okay, I know that porting a BIOS to a new board would be massively non-trivial. I've got a good book "Programmer's Guide to Using and Modifying CP/M" (IIRC) which makes it clear it would be a fairly good prospect to take months to finish, even with good debugging practices. (Although I'm no stranger to coding moderate-sized assembly programs.) On the other hand, I'd motivated by having an SBC that could run any of a number of C, Pascal, Modula 2 or Fortran compilers, along with BASIC, decent editing tools (well, I cut my teeth on PC-DOS Wordstar!), would make such an SBC really quite nifty as a hacking toy. Comments? I'm thinking of using a GAL decoder to map 32Kx8 of "shadow" EEPROM to MEMRDs and the "shadow" RAM to the same address for MEMWRs upon RESET, then copy the "shadow" ROM to RAM on coldboot, and then write to an I/O port to cause the GAL to map only the 128Kx8 SRAM into the machine memory map and jump to 0 to bootstrap up. Not sure if BIOS could use the upper 64K bank for storage in a useful way like disk I/O buffering, but since 128Kx8 SRAMs are cheap and small, and I've got a tubefull, that's what I'd want to use. :) P.S.: I got the 360K floppy to work under Win98, but not XP. I suspect it's just an undocumented "feature" of XP. :) From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Aug 26 17:51:00 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: Outbound (Mac-compatible) laptops. Message-ID: All, got in contact with an old friend of mine, Jeff (no.trag.spam@io.com, remove the obvious and the dots before the @), and got some information relevant to the Outbound systems. Here's the useful stuff: >Yes, Outbound. I don't know why so many people write Outback. Maybe >because of the steak house? He goes on to say he has one and some parts, but not any he wants to dispose of right now. >Chris mentions the docking ability to a Mac Plus (could also be a Mac >SE). I don't have that docking adapter. The thingy that goes >inside the Mac Plus. I really want one too, but have not been able >to find one anywhere. I put an ad in the news groups every so often >with no results. ... >I >have taken them apart and done repairs and such so I know them pretty >well. Most of that work was close to ten years ago though, so the >memory may be hazy. Oh, I have done component level repairs on the >power supply and fixed the corrupt EEPROM problem--so if someone has >those issues with one, I might be able to provide advice too. ... >BTW, what this fellow is referring to is the original Outbound Laptop >Model 125. Most people think of the later notebooks when they think >of the Outbound. For example, the notebook on "Single White Female" >is an Outbound *Notebook*. The Laptop is a big clunker at 9 lb. >It's about 8.5" X 11" X 4". It uses a standard lead-acid camcorder >battery which makes it easy to replace. The last time I checked >Radio Shack and Best Buy sold them. > >The slave card isn't that hard to install--so I understand. I >believe it just plugs into the ROM sockets. > >Hmmmm. What is the scope of the classic computers list? (I told him anything computing and >10 years old.) >I'm looking for some information on Larry Pina. ... >...Let me know if >someone pops up on the list with some docking adapters for the Model >125--or if you're feeling energetic you might ask if anyone has any >extras they want to part with. HTH, - Mark From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 26 17:56:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: Heathkit H89a In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020826165523.01afc488@ubanproductions.com> from "Tom Uban" at Aug 26, 2 04:58:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2136 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020826/ef7546bf/attachment.ksh From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Aug 26 18:00:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: [OT] UK TV Licenses (was Re: These darned old computers) References: <3D69E39A.369279A9@naffnet.org.uk> <3.0.6.16.20020826143047.54f75884@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20020826184433.238f1c44@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3D6AB223.50402@jetnet.ab.ca> Joe wrote: > That's true but most products are still cheaper here than in the UK. Explain that one! > > Joe Sure how much of the stuff you buy is Really ** Made in America **? From mythtech at mac.com Mon Aug 26 18:02:01 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: Outbound (Mac-compatible) laptops. Message-ID: >>I'm looking for some information on Larry Pina. He wrote some really useful Mac repair books? :-p -chris From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Aug 26 18:06:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020826154656.026d1570@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Noper - RS-DOS is designed for only 35-track operation, so you won't have > any problem with those [SA400] drives. OS-9 also assumes 35 tracks on > any bootable > software sold thru RS; OS-9's also smart enough to recognize SS floppies if > you've booted with DS drivers. You're right! Hmmm. Now I wonder what I was using/needing an external 40 track/side drive on. Maybe it was on a 5150. From archer at topnow.com Mon Aug 26 18:11:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: [OT] UK TV Licenses (was Re: These darned old computers) References: <3D69E39A.369279A9@naffnet.org.uk> <3.0.6.16.20020826143047.54f75884@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20020826184433.238f1c44@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3D6AB570.425840BE@topnow.com> Joe wrote: > > At 12:32 PM 8/26/02 -0700, Ross wrote: > >Joe wrote: > >> > >> At 09:27 AM 8/26/02 -0500, you wrote: > >> >On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk wrote: > >> > > >> >> Unfortunately, the licence now applies if you have equipment capable of > >> >> receiving TV transmissions, regardless of the purpose for which it used, so > >> >> you can try to convince the authorities all you like... > >> >> > >> >> A monitor, as you used, always avoids the license, so you would still have > >> >> been safe, but even owning a VCR or TV and keeping it in the loft requires a > >> >> license now. > >> > > >> >Ok, now you've got me wondering... I've never heard of anything like that > >> >on this side of the pond. Why exactly do you have to purchase a license > >> >to own a TV? Is it similar for AM/FM radios? ... > >> > >> Why do we have to pay a tax on telephone service? The answer is the same for both questions. > > > >Hmm. Unless something radical has changed in recent years, > >UK television and radio pretty much IS the BBC, which is > >not supported or funded by commercials like US networks are. > >It's funded by the license fees and you can see how they're > >used > >at http://www.bbc.co.uk. > > > >Think of it as PBS on major steroids. > > > >The "tax" model has its drawbacks and advantages. A lot > >fewer > >commercials, some top-notch progamming, but not nearly as > >much variety. On the other hand, if you think TV in the > >US is "Free", you're mistaken. The advertising that funds > >ABC, CBS, NBC, etc. is simply factored into the cost of > >nearly every product you buy at the store. > > That's true but most products are still cheaper here than in the UK. Explain that one! > I didn't know that was the case. Given that's true, I bet your answer is actually pretty complicated. Could be like the U.S. Change Bank, which makes no money on each transaction but makes up for this lack of profitability with large volumes. :) (Saturday Night Live reference.) :) No, Seriously. Given how much farmland is set aside for growing in the US (huge acreage), generally more sunshine (AZ and TX and CA and NM get a lot of sun!) and cheaper land in the great open spaces, along with a lot of farming technology used by big agribusiness, not to mention farmer subsidies, might start to explain why food at least is cheaper in the States. Not sure about other goods. Have no idea what percentage of goods are imports in UK vs. US, and whether protective import tariffs are more a factor on one side of the pond than the other. Also don't know if the UK subsidises farmers like the US does, or as much. I doubt most people think about these subsidies when they price corn or milk at the grocery store. A lot of times energy costs end up being a big factor in the cost of finished goods too. That might be tax-related, or could reflect actual higher oil prices there than here. Bottom line is it's probably a whole bunch of factors. > Joe From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Mon Aug 26 18:27:01 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: [OT] UK TV Licenses (was Re: These darned old computers) References: <3D69E39A.369279A9@naffnet.org.uk> <3.0.6.16.20020826143047.54f75884@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20020826184433.238f1c44@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <010601c24d58$05edda50$0300a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [OT] UK TV Licenses (was Re: These darned old computers) > That's true but most products are still cheaper here than in the UK. Explain that one! We also had the 'pleasure' of a "Broadcast Listeners License' until the Govt realised, that Aussies being Aussies, wouldn't pay for it unless they absolutely had to, which meant sending Radio Inspectors to do the rounds. This was costing more than the potential revenue, and was an unpopular job, especially in view of the fines that were levied as a consequence. At least some of the RI's took the initiative of having blank forms with them and would issue licenses on the spot (which they weren't supposed to do) rather than issuing a fine, which could provoke some rather severe reactions from the lower end of the social scale, who were also more likely not to have a license. In the end the Govt decided to give it away as a bad joke, and got stuck into CB licensing instead. If anything this was even more blithely ignored than the BCL and even harder to enforce, despite the RI's best efforts, they ultimately made CB a free class license as well and saved a fortune on Radio Inspectors wages. Where'd the money go? Most of it went to enforcing the licensing, some supposedly found it's way to the ABC (OZ equiv to BBC) but the standard of programming then was mostly documentary stuff, and the odd movie, with some current affairs stuff thrown in. With a few (mostly British) BBC series thrown in (remember Z Cars?) The ABC is still Govt funded, and the programming has iimproved somewhat, but it's not the sort of thing you watch all day if you have a choice. I can't speak to the British experience, but the 'pay me' licence didn't really work as far as ensuring quality progarmming. Commercial TV did and still does beat it hands down. Pay tv is another story. I've noted that it's now laced with commercials, which I find offensive considering we pay to see them. Bit like spam really. Geoff in Oz From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Aug 26 18:39:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: Semi-OT CP/M question/ feasibility In-Reply-To: <3D6AB068.584771CE@topnow.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020826163709.00ab49a0@mail.zipcon.net> all of the CP/M machines I have here at the moment are serial terminal based, I think that these are the rule, rather than the exception. From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Aug 26 18:47:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: Heathkit H89a In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.0.20020826165523.01afc488@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020826182547.01b3e268@ubanproductions.com> At 11:46 PM 8/26/2002 +0100, you wrote: >Be waned that the hardware manual is a fairly thick book, and has a >separate pile of sheets that contain the schematics, PCB layouts, and so >on. It's an excellent manual (as you'd expect from Heathkit), but it >won't be trivial to copy. If I can find someone with a spare manual, that would be preferable, but I am determined enough to do the copying if need be. >The H88 and Z90 are essentially the same computer. Basically, 'H' models >are Heathkit, and came as partial kits (the disk drive, CPU board, and >'terminal logic board' were ready-built, you got to solder up the monitor >and PSU). The 88 was a cassette-based machine, the 89 has an internal >disk drive. The 90 has the full 64K RAM as standard. Or at least that's >how I interpretted the manuals. > > > is there an extra copy which would be available for a small cost? > > > > Also can someone expound on this computer? > >Yes, it's a H19/Z19 terminal with a computer inside. The Z19 is a >VT52/VT100 compatible terminal using a Z80 as the control processor and a >6845 for video. That's what's on the 'terminal logic board', which stands >vertically right at the back of the case. The front of the machine is badged Heathkit Computer, the back has a label with Heathkit model H89a series no. 01-43911. >In the H89 (etc), that's unchanged. There's a CPU board mounted in front >of the terminal logic board. It contains another Z80 and 48K DRAM. And a >boot/monitor program in ROM. The computer communicates with the terminal >via an RS232 link (I kid you not) between the 2 boards. I believe you. >Plugged into the CPU board you are likely to find a triple serial board >(8250-based IIRC) and a disk controller or 2. And maybe a 16K RAM board >if you've really got a Z90. I have the 16K RAM board on one side and a stack of three boards. One seems to connect to the extern disk FR-1 connector and has a FD1797B controller. The internal disk controller uses an AMI8116 chip. The third board has three serial ports (as you indicated). On the back of the machine, there are three RS232 ports, a connector labeled FR-1 (external floppy) and three locations for options which are not present (FR-2, 488, and cassette I/O). >There were several disk controllers. One was certainly for hard sector >5.25" disks, and used a USRT + a bit of simple logic. Another handled >double-density soft sectored 5.25" disks -- I think this was based on the >Western Digital 1793 chip. There was, I think, a 8" drive controller and >even a hard disk interface. I guess it looks like the internal drive may be hard sectored. Is the FD1797B a floppy or hard drive controller? >Oh yesm, it runs CP/M or HDOS (which is a bit like a DEC OS at the user >level). I hope you got a boot disk... Nope, but Don Maslin has CPM. I will have to find HDOS too. --tom From thompson at new.rr.com Mon Aug 26 18:47:52 2002 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: DEC3000/400 - D/UX3.2 & VT420 In-Reply-To: <3D6A85B4.9E1274F7@Yale.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Well, all I had to do, was to flip the S3 switch on the back, and > comment out the tty01 line in /etc/inittab file... > Now to dig around in the docs, because I'm curious about how to get > more system messages to show on the VT420 console now... That would probably involve setting up the VT420's /device in syslog.conf with an appropriate logging level. I am surprised that the >>>set console graphics|serial firmware command was not involved, although I have not personally used that type of Alpha. -- From rumi_ml at rtfm.hu Mon Aug 26 18:53:00 2002 From: rumi_ml at rtfm.hu (Rumi Szabolcs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: reviving a HP 9000/310 Message-ID: <200208270153480887.02ABC8F9@mail.local> Hello! I'm currently trying to make an old HP 9000/310 machine work. Some information about the machine and the status of the "project" can be found out at: http://paranoia.rulez.org/~rumi/hp310.html What I currently need is either a way to crack into the HP-UX that is already installed on the box, or a floppy set (== images which can be written to floppies) of HP-UX that would run on this machine which sports a Motorola 68010/10MHz CPU, 2MB RAM, and a HP9153C 40MB HP-IB hard disk drive / 3.5" floppy drive combo. If you have such floppy images, or could help me with any software, documentation, or information regarding this system, please don't hesitate to contact me via email. If I succeed, I'm planning to put a nice webpage together about the system, with pics, history, infos, etc. Thanks, Szabolcs Rumi - From archer at topnow.com Mon Aug 26 19:08:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: BACK-OT: which CP/M machine is best (to copy)? :) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020826163709.00ab49a0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <3D6AC2F7.21E6699C@topnow.com> Geoff Reed wrote: > > all of the CP/M machines I have here at the moment are serial terminal > based, I think that these are the rule, rather than the exception. Coolness. Maybe I'm asking all the wrong questions. The *right* question is: what terminal-based system would be good to use as a starting point/reference design? (i.e. "rip off and modify" :) That is: what's your favorite terminal-based CP/M system and why? :) Big points for: * Well-documented * Available BIOS ASM sourcecode * Available schematics * Particularly popular, collectable appeal (might as well emulate something people like.) * Unusually clever, minimalist, or just "good" designs. It would be so cool to get a fast Z180 adapted to fit as a superfast CP/M replica. :) From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Aug 26 19:45:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: Looking to program a N82S181 Message-ID: <200208270045.RAA19684@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Is there anyone that is in the silicon valley area that can program N82S181's? Also, does anyone have a source for or N82S181C parts? This is for an Olivetti M20 that I'm working on. Dwight From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Aug 26 19:58:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: Looking to program a N82S181 Message-ID: <200208270057.RAA19705@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" > >Hi > Is there anyone that is in the silicon valley area >that can program N82S181's? Also, does anyone have >a source for or N82S181C parts? ^^^ it was N82S181A > This is for an Olivetti M20 that I'm working on. >Dwight > > > From doug_jackson at citadel.com.au Mon Aug 26 20:03:00 2002 From: doug_jackson at citadel.com.au (Doug Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: BACK-OT: which CP/M machine is best (to copy)? :) Message-ID: I vividly remember my Pulsar Electronics Little-Big-Board. It was an STD bus board, sporting a 4Mhz Z-80, 64K ram, 8" floppy disk interface (1.2Mb!!!), RTC, and dual serial ports. The board came with a full BIOS listing, as well as the device specific CP/M stuff. I remember that you could re-link the CP/M innards to allow HDD support (I was never *that* rich). Spent *many* hours on that box, running Wordstar, and a cool pascal compiler called Turbo Pascal. I used a terminal that I brought from the US (ZRT-80). I still have it, in a 19" box, with dual M4854 (5.25" 77 Track) drives. (Boy, it was hard to find the HD media then). The box had the bigest storage on the block, and I was the envy of all my friends when it came out. A mate had an kaypro system that supported dual 170K? disks. (grin) From memory, the board cost about $500 Aus, each drive cost about $450 Aus, and the Apple II power supply for the case cost about $35US from Jameco. All in 1985 currency. Anyway, back onto topic. I still have all of the listings, and the full schematics for the box as well. Doug Jackson MSS Operations Manager Citadel Securix (02) 6290 9011 (Ph) (02) 6262 6152 (Fax) (0414) 986 878 (mobile) > -----Original Message----- > From: Ross Archer [mailto:archer@topnow.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 10:08 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: BACK-OT: which CP/M machine is best (to copy)? :) > > > Geoff Reed wrote: > > > > all of the CP/M machines I have here at the moment are > serial terminal > > based, I think that these are the rule, rather than the exception. > > Coolness. Maybe I'm asking all the wrong questions. > > The *right* question is: what terminal-based > system would be good to use as a starting point/reference > design? (i.e. "rip off and modify" :) > > That is: what's your favorite terminal-based > CP/M system and why? :) > > Big points for: > > * Well-documented > * Available BIOS ASM sourcecode > * Available schematics > * Particularly popular, collectable appeal (might as > well > emulate something people like.) > * Unusually clever, minimalist, or just "good" designs. > > It would be so cool to get a fast Z180 adapted to fit > as a superfast CP/M replica. :) > CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. http://www.citadel.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020826/c58d3916/attachment.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Aug 26 20:41:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: reviving a HP 9000/310 In-Reply-To: <200208270153480887.02ABC8F9@mail.local> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020826212735.3e472e80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:53 AM 8/27/02 +0100, you wrote: >Hello! > >I'm currently trying to make an old HP 9000/310 machine work. >Some information about the machine and the status of the >"project" can be found out at: > >http://paranoia.rulez.org/~rumi/hp310.html > >What I currently need is either a way to crack into the >HP-UX that is already installed on the box, Did you try "Root"? I got lucky with a couple of the drives that I picked up and found that they didn't have a password setup for the root directory. From what I hear, HPs are just about impossible to break into if they have a password installed. FWIW I picked a HP 7958B hard drive from a scrap place yesterday. According to the stickers on it it came from NASA KSC and was used on a unix system (in other words HP-UX). But I checked the drive today and it has a fault. It spins up but then spins down and the fault light comes on. Oh well, better luck next time. Also found a HP 9888 expansion chassis. I haven't checked it yet but it looks like it's in decent condition. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Aug 26 20:41:24 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: BACK-OT: which CP/M machine is best (to copy)? :) In-Reply-To: <3D6AC2F7.21E6699C@topnow.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020826163709.00ab49a0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020826214258.3e477108@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:08 PM 8/26/02 -0700, you wrote: >Geoff Reed wrote: >> >> all of the CP/M machines I have here at the moment are serial terminal >> based, I think that these are the rule, rather than the exception. > >Coolness. Maybe I'm asking all the wrong questions. > >The *right* question is: what terminal-based >system would be good to use as a starting point/reference >design? (i.e. "rip off and modify" :) How about the SB-180? > >That is: what's your favorite terminal-based >CP/M system and why? :) GOOD performance (Hitachi 64180 aka Z180 CPU), GREAT OS (ZCPR). 256k or 512k DRAM memory, SCSI HD interface. also supports up to four floppy drives (3, 5 or 8 inch). > >Big points for: > > * Well-documented Published in a series in Byte magazine. > * Available BIOS ASM sourcecode Not sure but very possibly published as well. But I'm pretty certain that several people have reverse engineered it by now. > * Available schematics Again in Byte magazine. > * Particularly popular, collectable appeal (might as >well > emulate something people like.) "Particularly popular"? Perhaps not but still popular. > * Unusually clever, minimalist, or just "good" designs. GREAT design IMHO. Designed by Steve Ciarcia. > >It would be so cool to get a fast Z180 adapted to fit >as a superfast CP/M replica. :) Original SB-180 design used a 6MHz 64180 (Z-180) and was later upgraded to 8 MHz but a friend of mine has just gotten his to run at 22 MHz! (See message below). "I have finally gotten an SB180 floppy system running at 22 MHz. The system starts at 11MHz in EPROM, loads a boot-track image of B/P bios, which then loads a full banked-image. The banked-image makes the transition to 22 MHz. The banked-image also has code to drop the clock rate back down to 11 MHz and insert io wait states when accessing the FDC chip. So, it is running at 22 MHz with no memory or io wait states when it is not accessing the floppy. Zippy little bugger! I also added code to use the Z8S180 ESCC-like BRG, which lets me run my terminal at 115.2k baud. (I use a P133 running Linux with a Digiboard multiport serial card as a terminal.) My FX at 9MHz and 19200 now seems to crawl... I am going to plug in the SB180 SCSI expansion board and a SCSI drive and see if the system has any trouble with the SCSI IO at these speeds. If it works then I am going to migrate this to my original SB180 system, and then move on to speeding up my FX system." joe > From archer at topnow.com Mon Aug 26 20:56:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: BACK-OT: which CP/M machine is best (to copy)? :) References: Message-ID: <3D6ADC59.560A4835@topnow.com> > Doug Jackson wrote: > > I vividly remember my Pulsar Electronics Little-Big-Board. > > It was an STD bus board, sporting a 4Mhz Z-80, 64K ram, 8" > floppy disk interface (1.2Mb!!!), RTC, and dual serial > ports. Sounds ideal given the BIOS listing and such. Ideally there are no undocumented PALs or pure unobtanium parts in the base hardware. (If the floppy controller IC(s) are unobtainable, that's OK though. I kind of expect that.) I wrote you separately. Maybe I have something to trade for your time if it's possible to get copies. > > The board came with a full BIOS listing, as well as the > device specific CP/M stuff. I remember that you could > re-link the CP/M innards to allow HDD support (I was never > *that* rich). > Now of course HDDs are obscenely cheap. I picked up a 60 GB 7200 RPM drive for US $75 recently. > Spent *many* hours on that box, running Wordstar, and a > cool pascal compiler called Turbo Pascal. I used a > terminal that I brought from the US (ZRT-80). I used TP extensively (and not just in the bathroom ;) On a CP/M card on a C64 no less. I really enjoyed that compiler. > > I still have it, in a 19" box, with dual M4854 (5.25" 77 > Track) drives. (Boy, it was hard to find the HD media > then). That must have been an early QD (?) drive. Wonder how the data holds up on those over time. > The box had the bigest storage on the block, and I > was the envy of all my friends when it came out. A mate > had an kaypro system that supported dual 170K? disks. > (grin) From memory, the board cost about $500 Aus, each > drive cost about $450 Aus, and the Apple II power supply > for the case cost about $35US from Jameco. All in 1985 > currency. You'd be amused to hear that Jameco STILL sells that power supply in their current catalog! Too bad they don't have the LBB... > > Anyway, back onto topic. I still have all of the > listings, and the full schematics for the box as well. > > Doug Jackson > MSS Operations Manager > Citadel Securix > (02) 6290 9011 (Ph) > (02) 6262 6152 (Fax) > (0414) 986 878 (mobile) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ross Archer [mailto:archer@topnow.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 10:08 AM > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: BACK-OT: which CP/M machine is best (to copy)? > :) > > > > > > Geoff Reed wrote: > > > > > > all of the CP/M machines I have here at the moment are > > > serial terminal > > > based, I think that these are the rule, rather than > the exception. > > > > Coolness. Maybe I'm asking all the wrong questions. > > > > The *right* question is: what terminal-based > > system would be good to use as a starting > point/reference > > design? (i.e. "rip off and modify" :) > > > > That is: what's your favorite terminal-based > > CP/M system and why? :) > > > > Big points for: > > > > * Well-documented > > * Available BIOS ASM sourcecode > > * Available schematics > > * Particularly popular, collectable appeal (might as > > > well > > emulate something people like.) > > * Unusually clever, minimalist, or just "good" > designs. > > > > It would be so cool to get a fast Z180 adapted to fit > > as a superfast CP/M replica. :) > > > > CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a > privileged or confidential nature intended only for the > use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the > addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, > you are hereby notified that any dissemination, > distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly > prohibited. If you have received this email in error > please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views > expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of > Citadel Securix. > > Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click > below. > http://www.citadel.com.au From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Aug 26 21:23:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: Looking to program a N82S181 In-Reply-To: <200208270045.RAA19684@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020826212053.064654f8@ubanproductions.com> At 05:45 PM 8/26/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Hi > Is there anyone that is in the silicon valley area >that can program N82S181's? Also, does anyone have >a source for or N82S181C parts? > This is for an Olivetti M20 that I'm working on. >Dwight Hi Dwight, You might look for a cross in this page: http://www.spies.com/~arcade/schematics/PromRef.txt Also, Jameco has the 82S181 parts for $6.95 each (1-9). I've found that you have to be careful about the manufacturer when programming them as they are not all the same. The hard part may be finding a programmer which will do them... You may also check for an NTE equivalent part. --tom From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Aug 26 21:44:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: Heathkit H89a In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.0.20020826165523.01afc488@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020826214519.0645fa08@ubanproductions.com> So now that I know some other name and numbers to look under, I've been able to find quite a few pages about heathkit h88 h89 and zenith z89 machines. --tom At 11:46 PM 8/26/2002 +0100, you wrote: > > > > I acquired a Heathkit H89a this last Saturday at a local hamfest, but it > > did not come with any manuals. Does anyone have one that I can copy > > and return or which you would be willing to copy for me? Or better yet, > >Be waned that the hardware manual is a fairly thick book, and has a >separate pile of sheets that contain the schematics, PCB layouts, and so >on. It's an excellent manual (as you'd expect from Heathkit), but it >won't be trivial to copy. > >The H88 and Z90 are essentially the same computer. Basically, 'H' models >are Heathkit, and came as partial kits (the disk drive, CPU board, and >'terminal logic board' were ready-built, you got to solder up the monitor >and PSU). The 88 was a cassette-based machine, the 89 has an internal >disk drive. The 90 has the full 64K RAM as standard. Or at least that's >how I interpretted the manuals. > > > is there an extra copy which would be available for a small cost? > > > > Also can someone expound on this computer? > >Yes, it's a H19/Z19 terminal with a computer inside. The Z19 is a >VT52/VT100 compatible terminal using a Z80 as the control processor and a >6845 for video. That's what's on the 'terminal logic board', which stands >vertically right at the back of the case. > >In the H89 (etc), that's unchanged. There's a CPU board mounted in front >of the terminal logic board. It contains another Z80 and 48K DRAM. And a >boot/monitor program in ROM. The computer communicates with the terminal >via an RS232 link (I kid you not) between the 2 boards. > >Plugged into the CPU board you are likely to find a triple serial board >(8250-based IIRC) and a disk controller or 2. And maybe a 16K RAM board >if you've really got a Z90. > >There were several disk controllers. One was certainly for hard sector >5.25" disks, and used a USRT + a bit of simple logic. Another handled >double-density soft sectored 5.25" disks -- I think this was based on the >Western Digital 1793 chip. There was, I think, a 8" drive controller and >even a hard disk interface. > >Oh yesm, it runs CP/M or HDOS (which is a bit like a DEC OS at the user >level). I hope you got a boot disk... > >-tony From glenslick at hotmail.com Mon Aug 26 21:56:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: reviving a HP 9000/310 Message-ID: Can you stop the boot process when it is searching for a boot device and then manually select the boot device and add the ISL option? If you can get to an ISL prompt then you should be able to boot in single user mode. I have no idea if older HP 9000 systems have an ISL prompt, my experience is limited to 9000/700 series systems. >From: "Rumi Szabolcs" >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: reviving a HP 9000/310 >Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 01:53:48 +0100 > >Hello! > >I'm currently trying to make an old HP 9000/310 machine work. >Some information about the machine and the status of the >"project" can be found out at: > >http://paranoia.rulez.org/~rumi/hp310.html > >What I currently need is either a way to crack into the >HP-UX that is already installed on the box, or a floppy >set (== images which can be written to floppies) of HP-UX >that would run on this machine which sports a Motorola >68010/10MHz CPU, 2MB RAM, and a HP9153C 40MB HP-IB hard >disk drive / 3.5" floppy drive combo. > >If you have such floppy images, or could help me with any >software, documentation, or information regarding this system, >please don't hesitate to contact me via email. > >If I succeed, I'm planning to put a nice webpage together >about the system, with pics, history, infos, etc. > >Thanks, > >Szabolcs Rumi > >- _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From mranalog at attbi.com Mon Aug 26 22:47:00 2002 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: MMD-1 / Mini-Micro Designer programming Message-ID: <3D6AF620.E28E76DE@attbi.com> Karl Bernst writes: > I've got an octal keypad plus the letters "H,L,G,S,R,A,B,C"... Anyone = > who knows exactly what they do? After doing a web search, I found a listing for the keyboard routine. http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/1998-04/0779.html It appears that you enter an 3 digit octal number and then hit a function key. H - puts the number in the H register L - puts the number in the L register S - puts the number into memory pointed to by HL and then increments HL. G - Loads the program counter with the contents of HL I dug out my copy of "the 8080a Bugbook", but it does not discuss the operation of the keyboard. You might try to find the May-July 1976 issue of Radio Electronics. --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog ========================================= From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Mon Aug 26 23:26:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: reviving a HP 9000/310 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020827002412.007715c0@pop1.epm.net.co> At 07:56 PM 8/26/02 -0700, you wrote: >Can you stop the boot process when it is searching for a boot device and >then manually select the boot device and add the ISL option? If you can get >to an ISL prompt then you should be able to boot in single user mode. I >have no idea if older HP 9000 systems have an ISL prompt, my experience is >limited to 9000/700 series systems. Not the hp310, I think; at least not the version of bootloader/secondary loader and hpux that the hp310 might have supported. hp310s are about the earliest 300 series models. They didn;t usually have more than one or two megs of RAM, and I think they maxed out at about 6MB. Thus, BASIC or other such systems were preferred. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Mon Aug 26 23:38:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: reviving a HP 9000/310 In-Reply-To: <200208270153480887.02ABC8F9@mail.local> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020827003708.00698b2c@pop1.epm.net.co> At 01:53 AM 8/27/02 +0100, you wrote: >What I currently need is either a way to crack into the >HP-UX that is already installed on the box, or a floppy >set (== images which can be written to floppies) of HP-UX >that would run on this machine which sports a Motorola >68010/10MHz CPU, 2MB RAM, and a HP9153C 40MB HP-IB hard >disk drive / 3.5" floppy drive combo. Ok, I have now seen your boot messages; I think that your best bet is to try to mount the drive on another early hpux system and edit /etc/passwd. I don't know how to boot single user in such an early system. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Aug 27 01:01:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: References: <3D69E39A.369279A9@naffnet.org.uk> from "Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk" at Aug 26, 2 09:15:22 am Message-ID: <33035.64.169.63.74.1030428068.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > [For the benefit of any TV licensing types reading this, said junk box > is currently at an address that has a valid TV license] OK. But if you have a cat, watch out for the cat detector van from the Ministry of Ousing. From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Tue Aug 27 01:05:00 2002 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (jarkko.teppo@er-grp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: reviving a HP 9000/310 In-Reply-To: <200208270153480887.02ABC8F9@mail.local> References: <200208270153480887.02ABC8F9@mail.local> Message-ID: <20020827060442.GA21609@mail.er-grp.com> On Tue, Aug 27, 2002 at 01:53:48AM +0100, Rumi Szabolcs wrote: > Hello! > > What I currently need is either a way to crack into the > HP-UX that is already installed on the box, or a floppy Heh, my favourite part. This trick works with the bigger 300s and HP-UXen from 7 to 9. Power up, power off, power up, just before fsck start hitting Ctrl-C, Ctrl-\, Ctrl-Break etc. If you're lucky you get # and you can fsck the disks and do your stuff with /etc/passwd (no shadow with 5.x ??) BTW, what HP-UX version does it have ? -- jht From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Aug 27 04:18:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: Conclusion: Commodore 64 *is* lame! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Aug 2002, Chris wrote: > I also recall a switch back there for something. I can't verify as I > sent my 1702 to Toth along with a complete C64 system (which I have > regretted ever since, as it was a very complete system... but I suppose > with him it has a better home where it is really being used, as compared > to me where it probably would have sat in a box for the rest of time) IIRC, the switch on the rear of the monitor selects the Y/C or composite inputs. If needed, I'll check the monitor just to be sure. Right now, part of the house is being remodeled, so the 1702 isn't as easy to get to as I'd like. -Toth From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Aug 27 04:46:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020826140209.029aaaa0@mail.30below.com> References: <3D6A1F2E.13188.E74680@localhost> Message-ID: <3D6B0209.31574.CA8280@localhost> Bingo ! I took both cases off and at first was dismayed since the "360k" has a 30 pin edge connector and takes it's power from the host machine. Then I saw that the TEAC drive had a 34 pin edge connector that was plugged into the card with the 30 pin edge-c and a standard 5 1/4 floppy power plug. The 502 has a dummy faceplate for a second floppy and 2 data 34pin connectors and 2 standard 3 1/2 floppy plug types as you say and a whopping big PSU that must support 2 drives. There's one single square 2pin plug which doesn't have any visible connector on either drive. The only mod needed would be to replace the small power with a large type. That's great. When you don't have a HD, 2 floppies sure makes things easier. I recall with no pleasure spending hours doing the disk-change mambo copying programs off magazine disks on my Atari ST. Lawrence > Rumor has it that Lawrence Walker may have mentioned these words: > > In referring to the "360k" do you mean the model (RS 25-1060) that shipped > >IIRC for the 1000HX ( ?) ? I just checked my COCO M.502 drive and the edge > >connector is slightly different. It would be nice to have a useable 2nd drive > >for my CoCos. > > Larry, > > The case itself is not compatible with the CoCos, as the ribbon cable has > extra connectors for powering the drive... If you take the drive out of the > case, it'll be the standard connectors (except maybe power - just hack in a > standard "big plug" if necessary) and you can use the drive no problem with your > CoCos. > > With OS-9, you'll just need to sysgen a new boot floppy with the 360K DSDD 60Hz > /d1 driver; with RS-DOS you'll need to patch the ROMs, then reburn if you want > the changes permenant. Beware: The RS-DOS ROMS assume that both drives are the > same size, so only do the mods if you have 2 360K drives! > > HTH, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > > > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > zmerch@30below.com > > What do you do when Life gives you lemons, > and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Aug 27 05:45:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: [OT] UK TV Licenses (was Re: These darned old computers) References: <3D69E39A.369279A9@naffnet.org.uk> <3.0.6.16.20020826143047.54f75884@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20020826184433.238f1c44@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <005901c24db6$690950c0$0100000a@deepspacenine> Joe wrote: > That's true but most products are still cheaper here than in the > UK. Explain that one! Three letters - VAT. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ PGP Key ID: 0x0E18C95F PGP Key Fingerprint: 2741 5CB7 1D45 6F77 D1FC FA3D 7A87 2DA4 0E18 C95F From tony.eros at machm.org Tue Aug 27 06:11:01 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <33035.64.169.63.74.1030428068.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com > References: <3D69E39A.369279A9@naffnet.org.uk> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020827070923.03ac7cf8@mail.njd.concentric.com> At 11:01 PM 8/26/2002 -0700, you wrote: > > [For the benefit of any TV licensing types reading this, said junk box > > is currently at an address that has a valid TV license] > >OK. But if you have a cat, watch out for the cat detector van from the >Ministry of Ousing. Yes, do be careful -- their equipment can pinpoint a purr at 400 yards! -- Tony From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Aug 27 07:17:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: Conclusion: Commodore 64 *is* lame! In-Reply-To: from Tothwolf at "Aug 27, 2 04:28:16 am" Message-ID: <200208271226.FAA09498@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > IIRC, the switch on the rear of the monitor selects the Y/C or composite > inputs. Correct. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- boom boom boom Nothing outlasts the Energizer. It keeps going and going ... From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Aug 27 07:40:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: reviving a HP 9000/310 In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020827002412.007715c0@pop1.epm.net.co> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020827083848.4e6ff8dc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:24 AM 8/27/02 -0400, you wrote: >At 07:56 PM 8/26/02 -0700, you wrote: >>Can you stop the boot process when it is searching for a boot device and >>then manually select the boot device and add the ISL option? If you can get >>to an ISL prompt then you should be able to boot in single user mode. I >>have no idea if older HP 9000 systems have an ISL prompt, my experience is >>limited to 9000/700 series systems. > >Not the hp310, I think; at least not the version of bootloader/secondary >loader and hpux that the hp310 might have supported. I can't say for certain the the 310 has an ISL mode but I KNOW that all the earlier 200 series did and all of the 300 series that I'be tried have it so I'm fairly certain that the 310 does too. > >hp310s are about the earliest 300 series models. They didn;t usually >have more than one or two megs of RAM, and I think they maxed out >at about 6MB. Thus, BASIC or other such systems were preferred. The HP 9000 series 200 machines maxed out at seven Mb so the 310 should be able to handle at least that much. Memory cards are tricky to configure in the HPs. The memory has to be installed starting at the highest addresses first and then working downward. The switches on the memory cards set the starting (high) address and use negative logic (0=true). Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Aug 27 07:40:26 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: reviving a HP 9000/310 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020827083155.4e6fa8f6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:56 PM 8/26/02 -0700, you wrote: >Can you stop the boot process when it is searching for a boot device and >then manually select the boot device and add the ISL option? Yes you can. Press the space bar during the memory test or while it's looking for and testing the I/O cards and it will display a list of operating Systems on the right hand side of the screen and will halt awaiting operator input. Each OS will have a one or two character code immediately to the left of the OS name. You press the two character code to boot that OS. if you go to the URL that Rumi showed, there is a picture there that shows a screen just prior to it listing the OSs. The HP-UX systems usually show 1H and 1D (and often other choices as well). The 1D seems to be a Debugging mode. Joe If you can get >to an ISL prompt then you should be able to boot in single user mode. I >have no idea if older HP 9000 systems have an ISL prompt, my experience is >limited to 9000/700 series systems. > > >>From: "Rumi Szabolcs" >>Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>Subject: reviving a HP 9000/310 >>Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 01:53:48 +0100 >> >>Hello! >> >>I'm currently trying to make an old HP 9000/310 machine work. >>Some information about the machine and the status of the >>"project" can be found out at: >> >>http://paranoia.rulez.org/~rumi/hp310.html >> >>What I currently need is either a way to crack into the >>HP-UX that is already installed on the box, or a floppy >>set (== images which can be written to floppies) of HP-UX >>that would run on this machine which sports a Motorola >>68010/10MHz CPU, 2MB RAM, and a HP9153C 40MB HP-IB hard >>disk drive / 3.5" floppy drive combo. >> >>If you have such floppy images, or could help me with any >>software, documentation, or information regarding this system, >>please don't hesitate to contact me via email. >> >>If I succeed, I'm planning to put a nice webpage together >>about the system, with pics, history, infos, etc. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Szabolcs Rumi >> >>- > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Aug 27 07:40:50 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: [OT] UK TV Licenses (was Re: These darned old computers) In-Reply-To: <005901c24db6$690950c0$0100000a@deepspacenine> References: <3D69E39A.369279A9@naffnet.org.uk> <3.0.6.16.20020826143047.54f75884@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20020826184433.238f1c44@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020827084230.4e67278e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:42 AM 8/27/02 +0100, Phil wrote: >Joe wrote: >> That's true but most products are still cheaper here than in the >> UK. Explain that one! >Three letters - VAT. BINGO! Like I said to begin with, it's all about government revenue! Joe From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Aug 27 08:03:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: [OT] UK TV Licenses (was Re: These darned old computers) Message-ID: Joe wrote: >>At 11:42 AM 8/27/02 +0100, Phil wrote: >>Joe wrote: >>> That's true but most products are still cheaper here than in the >>> UK. Explain that one! >>Three letters - VAT. > > BINGO! Like I said to begin with, it's all about government revenue! The US generally has sales tax which (I believe) is more or less exactly what VAT is (except VAT is 17.5% and Sales Taxes are generally lower ...) so the difference lies (mostly) elsewhere ... Antonio From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Aug 27 08:07:00 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: BACK-OT: which CP/M machine is best (to copy)? :) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 26 Aug 2002 17:08:23 PDT." <3D6AC2F7.21E6699C@topnow.com> Message-ID: <200208270838.JAA21471@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Ross Archer said: > That is: what's your favorite terminal-based > CP/M system and why? :) > > Big points for: > > * Well-documented > * Available BIOS ASM sourcecode > * Available schematics > * Particularly popular, collectable appeal (might as > well > emulate something people like.) > * Unusually clever, minimalist, or just "good" designs. > > It would be so cool to get a fast Z180 adapted to fit > as a superfast CP/M replica. :) Someone is working on a new cp/m system, have you tried asking on comp.os.cpm?? -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Aug 27 08:07:25 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 26 Aug 2002 21:04:54 BST." Message-ID: <200208270817.JAA21438@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said: > > > Now, a TV set used as a computer monitor doesn't need a license, but it > > > can be difficult to convince the authorities that you don't use it to > > > watch TV as well. > > > > Unfortunately, the licence now applies if you have equipment capable of > > receiving TV transmissions, regardless of the purpose for which it used, so > > you can try to convince the authorities all you like... > > HAs this now officially been changed? The authorities have tried to claim > this for many years, but the license documents say otherwise ('a license > for establishing a TV receiving station' or something like that). > "...to install or use any equipment to receive televeision programme services..." "Install" has been taken in court to mean "have available for use". Computer TV cards are covered as well...as are VCRs, if fitted with a tuner. AFAIK the situation with broadcast tv over the internet has not been resolved yet. Amateur TV is exempt, even for non-hams - the licence only applies to broadcast TV. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Aug 27 08:07:50 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: [OT] UK TV Licenses (was Re: These darned old computers) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 26 Aug 2002 16:10:40 PDT." <3D6AB570.425840BE@topnow.com> Message-ID: <200208270836.JAA21457@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, > Have no idea what percentage of goods are imports in UK > vs. US, and whether protective import tariffs are more > a factor on one side of the pond than the other. The last time I looked, the USA imports about 25% more than it imports, the UK is pretty much even imports v. exports. > Also don't know if the UK > subsidises farmers like the US does, or as much. I doubt > most people think about these subsidies when they price > corn or milk at the grocery store. > The UK (and the EU in general) has quite generous agricultural subsidies, but not nearly as high in the UK as the US. A couple of years ago the US was selling wheat on the open market at only 54% of the cost of production, the rest was subsidy. The EU is working toward elimiating, or at least severely curtailing, agricultural subsidies. > A lot of times energy costs end up being a big factor in > the cost of finished goods too. That might be tax-related, > or could reflect actual higher oil prices there than here. > > Bottom line is it's probably a whole bunch of factors. One big one is that we pay 17.5% tax on almost everything we buy, except foodstuffs - although you pay it if you have a meal served to you :-( For those that asked, I think the current TV licence is 104 pounds per year (about $70) or slightly over the price of one pint of beer per week. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From hansp at aconit.org Tue Aug 27 08:10:01 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: [OT] UK TV Licenses (was Re: These darned old computers) References: Message-ID: <3D6B7A0E.4070709@aconit.org> Antonio Carlini wrote: > Joe wrote: >>>> That's true but most products are still cheaper here than in the >>>>UK. Explain that one! >>>Three letters - VAT. > The US generally has sales tax which (I believe) is > more or less exactly what VAT is (except VAT is 17.5% > and Sales Taxes are generally lower ...) so the difference > lies (mostly) elsewhere ... Indeed, and from my experience here in France, with a sales tax of almost 20%, prices still seem to be cheaper than in the UK. In the UK you get a double whammy, high prices AND low salaries. -- hbp From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Aug 27 08:18:00 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <200208262206.g7QM6JU16034@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020827075646.025e3d88@pc> At 05:06 PM 8/26/2002 -0500, Eric Dittman wrote: >I say for the most part since we do seem to get a lot of >reruns of "Are You Being Served?", "'Allo, 'Allo", and >some other crap comedies. Galavision is almost as much fun. At any given moment, you can turn to Galavision or Univision and there's an 86% chance the show will involve a young woman who could be Selma Hayek's sister. And S?bado Gigante! What a show. I wish they'd just fill up all 999 channels on my DirecTV with all those crap-filled channels from around the world, so I could find the gems on my own. Perhaps my favorite show is the Japanese "This Old House," or the Finnish fishing show, and I don't know it yet. They could fill ten channels with "The Best of The World's Community Access Channels" alone. Or what about a Akihabara channel with the latest gadgets we can't buy yet? Uh oh, now we've given Sellam the idea to pitch that "This Old Computer" pilot to TechTV. Spin-offs! Books, t-shirts, custom pocket protectors, videos, trips around the world to visit collectors and museums! Not to mention the groupies. - John From hansp at aconit.org Tue Aug 27 08:26:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: [OT] UK TV Licenses (was Re: These darned old computers) References: <200208270836.JAA21457@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <3D6B7DF4.8050405@aconit.org> Stan Barr wrote: > The EU is working toward elimiating, or at least severely curtailing, > agricultural subsidies. Hmm, I think my French farm neighbours might have something to say about that.... >>Bottom line is it's probably a whole bunch of factors. Agreed, but you do seem to be hit on all sides in the UK... > One big one is that we pay 17.5% tax on almost everything we > buy, except foodstuffs - although you pay it if you have a meal > served to you :-( Here in Fracne VAT is 19.6%, what is important is the total take of the government not how that booty is divided. Here in France the gov gets between 40% and 50% of GDP, it is lower inthe UK and much lower in the US. > For those that asked, I think the current TV licence is 104 pounds > per year (about $70) or slightly over the price of one pint of beer > per week. Ahem, I think you converted the wrong way, 104 pounds is closer to 150 dollars, don't know the price of beer in the US so can't comment on your beer conversion. -- hbp From David.Woyciesjes at Yale.edu Tue Aug 27 08:52:01 2002 From: David.Woyciesjes at Yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: DEC3000/400 - D/UX3.2 & VT420 References: Message-ID: <3D6B8439.20672E96@Yale.edu> Paul Thompson wrote: > > On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > Well, all I had to do, was to flip the S3 switch on the back, and > > comment out the tty01 line in /etc/inittab file... > > Now to dig around in the docs, because I'm curious about how to get > > more system messages to show on the VT420 console now... > > That would probably involve setting up the VT420's /device in syslog.conf > with an appropriate logging level. > > I am surprised that the >>>set console graphics|serial firmware command > was not involved, although I have not personally used that type of Alpha. > > -- I don't recall how old exactly this 3000/400 is, but the firmware options are definitely fewer than, say, the DEC Multia which is a bit newer. Basically, it seems like the S3 switch on this generation of Alphas is the original version of the firmware ">>>set console graphics|serial" setting. Maybe once they had more room, they were able to add that siwtch to the firmware... Just another observation... I have a LK401 keyboard on this 3000/400. The [Shift][.] key combo in DECterm gives me the >, but here in Netscape v4.08 (and also XTerm), it only gives me a period. Hmmm, odd. But I do have the key that has does both < and >, which works in all 3 applications... Looks like the key mappings here in Motif need to be tweaked. -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From rumi_ml at rtfm.hu Tue Aug 27 08:58:00 2002 From: rumi_ml at rtfm.hu (Rumi Szabolcs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: reviving a HP 9000/310 In-Reply-To: <20020827060442.GA21609@mail.er-grp.com> References: <200208270153480887.02ABC8F9@mail.local> <20020827060442.GA21609@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: <200208271559130433.00FFAD73@mail.local> On 2002.08.27 at 09:04 jarkko.teppo@er-grp.com wrote: >Heh, my favourite part. This trick works with the bigger 300s and >HP-UXen from 7 to 9. > >Power up, power off, power up, just before fsck start hitting Ctrl-C, >Ctrl-\, Ctrl-Break etc. If you're lucky you get # and you can fsck the >disks and do your stuff with /etc/passwd (no shadow with 5.x ??) > >BTW, what HP-UX version does it have ? well, from what I can currently see of that HP-UX is that what I have put on the web page... and there is no mention of the version number. I tried that Ctrl-C trick several times now, but that "If you're lucky" situation doesn't seem to occur... :( Btw, for the curious, I have put another firmware/bootrom screenshot with the booting selections (it works the way Joe described it). So one can select which system to boot, this is why I wrote in my first email that I need the HP-UX floppies: If I could put a bootable HP-UX floppy disk into the 3.5" drive of the 9153C then it would appear on that screen as a boot selection option, and I could boot from it. So, the best solution would be: Having a bootable HP-UX floppy to at least mount the root fs and get rid of that root password I don't know, or having a whole HP-UX install floppy set to reinstall the whole system. Regards, Szabolcs Rumi - From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Aug 27 09:38:00 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: Amiga GPIB/IEEE-488 card? In-Reply-To: <20020826150211.92816.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020826150211.92816.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <02Aug27.104418edt.119167@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> There's an Amiga 3000 on eBay that purports to have a Zorro-II GPIB interface. This is the first time I've heard of one of these. Does anyone have one? What was it used for? Here's the auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2048082800 If you enlarge the photograph showing the board, you can barely make out some of the lettering on it. Thanks and take care Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Aug 27 10:16:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:52 2005 Subject: UnixPC 7300 --> 3b2 Message-ID: Hell, let's skip the middleman and give all minis/supers/mainframes directly to me, while we're at it! ;p _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From cctech at retro.co.za Tue Aug 27 11:05:32 2002 From: cctech at retro.co.za (Wouter de Waal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: Olivetti M24 monitor Message-ID: <200208271604.SAA09069@ccii.co.za> Hi all I need to kludge a momitor for an M24 (which is running some kind of a cutting table for making rubber boats) I remember the machine from student days, and the monitor was, as far as I remember, not standard at all. Any ideas? Wouter From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Aug 27 11:17:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: UnixPC 7300 --> 3b2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, Will Jennings wrote: > Hell, let's skip the middleman and give all minis/supers/mainframes directly > to me, while we're at it! ;p Hell, that's easy! Getting you to actually come and pick them up, well...... ;} Chz John From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Aug 27 12:16:00 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: Amiga GPIB/IEEE-488 card? In-Reply-To: <02Aug27.104418edt.119167@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> References: <20020826150211.92816.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> <20020826150211.92816.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020827120656.0255ce50@pc> At 12:40 PM 8/26/2002 -0400, Jeff Hellige wrote: > There's an Amiga 3000 on eBay that purports to have a Zorro-II GPIB interface. This is the first time I've heard of one of these. Does anyone have one? What was it used for? As I recalled, and as a quick Google confirmed, ASDG made one for a while: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=amiga+gpib As for what it was used for - who knows. I don't remember a particular application. - John From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 27 12:17:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: Amiga GPIB/IEEE-488 card? In-Reply-To: <02Aug27.104418edt.119167@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <20020827171703.56119.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeff Hellige wrote: > There's an Amiga 3000 on eBay that purports to have a > Zorro-II GPIB interface. This is the first time I've heard of one of > these. I haven't seen _this_ one, but ISTR that ADSG had a stackable I/O board with GPIB as one of the option modules. > Does anyone have one? Having never _heard_ of it (and being a big GPIB fan from PET days and a big Amiga fan from more recent days), I would be surprised if they sold more than a handful. If you have an old AC Guide, you might look them up to see if they were ever reviewed in the product guide. > What was it used for? Talking to lab instruments - volt meters, frequency counters, pH meters, etc. If they had a decent driver or an API for C (or possibly BASIC ;-), one could write code to talk to whatever you wanted, HP and Commodore equipment, most commonly. I always wanted to be able to hook a 4040 drive or the like up to a modern computer (yes, I know there are ways to do that now); this would have helped accomplish that 5-10 years ago. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2048082800 -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From wpointon at earthlink.net Tue Aug 27 12:39:00 2002 From: wpointon at earthlink.net (bill pointon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: More NeXT Stuff In-Reply-To: <00e401c24d52$988909d0$78000240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <39B29A9A-B9E4-11D6-8707-003065ED7126@earthlink.net> hey john im very interested - how much for the lot? - thanks -- billp On Monday, August 26, 2002, at 06:47 , John wrote: > After digging into the boxes I got Thursday I found over 150 3.5 FD with > various Next software on them and 12 CD's with Next software. Also I > got 10 > optical disk in cases for the Next along with a Pinnacle Micro external > SCSI > optical reader, model PMO-650. Got two sound boxes that were in parts > and > need to be repaired. Will put together a list of the software and send > it > later. > > From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Aug 27 12:58:00 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: [OT] UK TV Licenses (was Re: These darned old computers) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:26:12 +0200." <3D6B7DF4.8050405@aconit.org> Message-ID: <200208271746.SAA26361@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Hans B Pufal said: > Stan Barr wrote: > > > > For those that asked, I think the current TV licence is 104 pounds > > per year (about $70) or slightly over the price of one pint of beer > > per week. > > Ahem, I think you converted the wrong way, 104 pounds is closer to 150 > dollars, Yes...I'm totally brain-dead today, I was awake all night... :-( -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Aug 27 13:44:00 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <3D6B0209.31574.CA8280@localhost> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020826140209.029aaaa0@mail.30below.com> <3D6A1F2E.13188.E74680@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020827144331.01bfa4d8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Lawrence Walker may have mentioned these words: [snip] > The 502 has a dummy faceplate for a second floppy and 2 data 34pin >connectors and 2 standard 3 1/2 floppy plug types as you say and a >whopping big PSU that must support 2 drives. There's one single square 2pin >plug which doesn't have any visible connector on either drive. > The only mod needed would be to replace the small power with a large type. The PSU does support 2 drives, but when it does so, it gets a little warm... that's what the 2-pin plug is for - Fan power. If you're using newer drives that take less power (especially if it's 3.5" and you have more room for convective cooling) it's not necessary (or at least *as* necessary, if you power the machine for a short amount of time) but if you plan on using that older TEAC, you'll want to fit in a compatible-sized fan. The fan was included in the CoCo "Drive 1" kits... Dunno if a standard PC case fan is the right size - my FD502 is still packed away for now... (sniff) but if that's too big, a larger pentium-like CPU fan should be just the ticket. If it's not *ezactly* the right size, I'm sure suitable boltholes could be fashioned... ;-) > That's great. When you don't have a HD, 2 floppies sure makes things >easier. I recall with no pleasure spending hours doing the disk-change >mambo copying programs off magazine disks on my Atari ST. Yea, when I upgraded my CoCo3 to 512K, it wasn't so bad 'cause I fashioned a 200K RAMdisk; which made copying stuff a wee bit easier; but the original IBM PCs were tough, they'd only copy 3-4 tracks each spin... :-( Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Aug 27 14:17:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: These darned old computers References: <5.0.0.25.0.20020827075646.025e3d88@pc> Message-ID: <3D6BCF4F.4050401@jetnet.ab.ca> John Foust wrote: Or what about a Akihabara channel with the > latest gadgets we can't buy yet? I just bought a tube stereo http://www.s5electronics.com/gpage1.html and thinking a ALL TUBE remote would be nice. :) From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Aug 27 14:19:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: WTB/T Grid SCSI pod Message-ID: <3D6B888C.22156.2D80534@localhost> I have a Grid laptop 5 1/4" SCSI floppy drive (mfgd 1982) for my m.1520. The 15xx 's used some peripherals (eg. VGA, AC power, SCCI) via adaptors they called "Pods" in the battery ( which was also a Pod) slot. The SCCI connector is a DB50 which was also found on some DEC, SUN,etc. peripherals TMK. Anyone on the list have this Pod or for that matter any Grid Pods or accessories they'd part with ? Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Aug 27 14:19:31 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: [OT] UK TV Licenses (was Re: These darned old computers) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020827084230.4e67278e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <005901c24db6$690950c0$0100000a@deepspacenine> Message-ID: <3D6B888C.26803.2D804EA@localhost> But then again the UK, like most of the industrialized countries in the world has health-care. In social benefits the US is pretty backward. Lawrence > At 11:42 AM 8/27/02 +0100, Phil wrote: > >Joe wrote: > >> That's true but most products are still cheaper here than in the > >> UK. Explain that one! > >Three letters - VAT. > > BINGO! Like I said to begin with, it's all about government revenue! > > Joe > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Tue Aug 27 14:35:01 2002 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (jos.mar) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: Classiccmp sources in Glasgow / Edinburgh area ? Message-ID: <3D5B793100113730@mta12n.bluewin.ch> (added by postmaster@bluewin.ch) I will be going on a trip to Scotland, and would not mind to take back a nice classic machine like an Acorn Archimedes . Any pointers as to were such a machine might be found in the abovementioned area's ? Jos Dreesen From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue Aug 27 14:51:00 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: Olivetti M24 monitor References: <200208271604.SAA09069@ccii.co.za> Message-ID: <3D6BD793.6F7AA389@gifford.co.uk> Wouter de Waal wrote: > I need to kludge a momitor for an M24 (which is > running some kind of a cutting table for making > rubber boats) > > I remember the machine from student days, and the > monitor was, as far as I remember, not standard > at all. It has two nonstandard features: * High scan rates, leading to 640x400 resolution * 25-pin "D" connector instead of a 9-pin I know we used some Aydin 19-inch monitors on M24s back in 1986, but which models (and what scan rates) I can't remember. I did write some code to toggle a bit in the M24 and cause the screen to degauss, though. One of the Olivetti's enhanced features. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Aug 27 15:08:00 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: Olivetti M24 monitor Message-ID: Is the AT&T 6300 a rebadged M24? If so, the D connector also carried power for the monitor (which had no separate power cord). -----Original Message----- From: John Honniball [mailto:coredump@gifford.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 2:49 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Olivetti M24 monitor Wouter de Waal wrote: > I need to kludge a momitor for an M24 (which is > running some kind of a cutting table for making > rubber boats) > > I remember the machine from student days, and the > monitor was, as far as I remember, not standard > at all. It has two nonstandard features: * High scan rates, leading to 640x400 resolution * 25-pin "D" connector instead of a 9-pin I know we used some Aydin 19-inch monitors on M24s back in 1986, but which models (and what scan rates) I can't remember. I did write some code to toggle a bit in the M24 and cause the screen to degauss, though. One of the Olivetti's enhanced features. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue Aug 27 15:18:00 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: Olivetti M24 monitor References: Message-ID: <3D6BDDC0.D34F566D@gifford.co.uk> "Feldman, Robert" wrote: > Is the AT&T 6300 a rebadged M24? If so, the D connector also carried power > for the monitor (which had no separate power cord). Yes, the AT&T machines were rebadged Olivettis. Different colour paint, too, I think. The Olivetti monochrome monitor was powered with 12V from the M24. The colour monitor had its own internal power supply. Beware of plugging a parallel printer into the M24's video connector by accident (same "D" connector). It'll blow up chips inside the printer due to that 12V supply! -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From curt at atari-history.com Tue Aug 27 15:26:01 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: TK 50 with VMS??? References: <3D6BDDC0.D34F566D@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <006801c24e07$adcdabb0$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Hi, Just picked up a 4000-200 for next to nothing, but I need to install VMS on TK50, anyone have a VMS Install, maybe ver 4 or 5 or higher???? (I'm not familiar with a TF85, will it read TK50's and TK70's..... shaking the dust off of my near forgotten Vax skills {or here-in lack of}) Thanks, Curt From curt at atari-history.com Tue Aug 27 15:35:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: Anyone interested in an IBM T730 Tablet computer? References: <3D6BDDC0.D34F566D@gifford.co.uk> <006801c24e07$adcdabb0$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <007001c24e08$f7e43bf0$0b00a8c0@cvendel> I have one with extra batteries, cards, cables, printer and carrying case. Anyone interested please send me an email. Curt From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Aug 27 15:35:38 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: CoCo Floppies: Was:These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020827144331.01bfa4d8@mail.30below.com> References: <3D6B0209.31574.CA8280@localhost> Message-ID: <3D6B9A7B.31447.31E1321@localhost> Do you mean that I could use a 3 1/2" floppy in the 502, with suitable data connector of course ? That would be even cooler than a 2nd 5 1/4 !! That would enable me to get into "serious" OS9 stuff. Woo-haa !! I just ran up and checked an old data cable for floppies. It does fit the 502. I'm surmising that the TEAC (FD-55BV-75-U) was a standard issue floppy that R-S used so any 34pin 3 1/2 connector could be used to replace the 2nd edge connector on the 502. That would also imply that I could use 2 3 1/2" floppies in there if wanted. Or am I simply running away with myself. Would the cartridge interface accept 3 1/2" drives ? I have to get into some major research on the CoCo. I have some of the important issues of "Rainbow" (eg Jan 84 Beginners Issue) and almost complete sets of Micro 80 and US 80. Lawrence > Rumor has it that Lawrence Walker may have mentioned these words: > [snip] > > > The 502 has a dummy faceplate for a second floppy and 2 data 34pin > >connectors and 2 standard 3 1/2 floppy plug types as you say and a > >whopping big PSU that must support 2 drives. There's one single square 2pin > >plug which doesn't have any visible connector on either drive. > > The only mod needed would be to replace the small power with a large type. > > The PSU does support 2 drives, but when it does so, it gets a little > warm... that's what the 2-pin plug is for - Fan power. If you're using > newer drives that take less power (especially if it's 3.5" and you have > more room for convective cooling) it's not necessary (or at least *as* > necessary, if you power the machine for a short amount of time) but if you plan > on using that older TEAC, you'll want to fit in a compatible-sized fan. The fan > was included in the CoCo "Drive 1" kits... > > Dunno if a standard PC case fan is the right size - my FD502 is still > packed away for now... (sniff) but if that's too big, a larger pentium-like CPU > fan should be just the ticket. If it's not *ezactly* the right size, I'm sure > suitable boltholes could be fashioned... ;-) > > > That's great. When you don't have a HD, 2 floppies sure makes things > >easier. I recall with no pleasure spending hours doing the disk-change > >mambo copying programs off magazine disks on my Atari ST. > > Yea, when I upgraded my CoCo3 to 512K, it wasn't so bad 'cause I fashioned a > 200K RAMdisk; which made copying stuff a wee bit easier; but the original IBM > PCs were tough, they'd only copy 3-4 tracks each spin... :-( > > Laterz, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > zmerch@30below.com > > What do you do when Life gives you lemons, > and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From dittman at dittman.net Tue Aug 27 15:38:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: TK 50 with VMS??? In-Reply-To: from "Curt Vendel" at Aug 27, 2002 04:24:00 PM Message-ID: <200208272034.g7RKYWI19143@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Just picked up a 4000-200 for next to nothing, but I need to install VMS > on TK50, anyone have a VMS Install, maybe ver 4 or 5 or higher???? (I'm > not familiar with a TF85, will it read TK50's and TK70's..... shaking the > dust off of my near forgotten Vax skills {or here-in lack of}) You should be able to read TK50 and TK70 tapes on a TF85. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Aug 27 15:47:00 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: Olivetti M24 monitor Message-ID: +15V -----Original Message----- From: John Honniball [mailto:coredump@gifford.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 3:15 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Olivetti M24 monitor The Olivetti monochrome monitor was powered with 12V from the M24. The colour monitor had its own internal power supply. Beware of plugging a parallel printer into the M24's video connector by accident (same "D" connector). It'll blow up chips inside the printer due to that 12V supply! -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From curt at atari-history.com Tue Aug 27 15:47:36 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: TK 50 with VMS??? References: <200208272034.g7RKYWI19143@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <007601c24e0a$a8d0a240$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Thanks Eric, I was hoping based on the numbering that it might be backward compatible, I'd just never heard of a TF drive before. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Dittman" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 4:34 PM Subject: Re: TK 50 with VMS??? > > Just picked up a 4000-200 for next to nothing, but I need to install VMS > > on TK50, anyone have a VMS Install, maybe ver 4 or 5 or higher???? (I'm > > not familiar with a TF85, will it read TK50's and TK70's..... shaking the > > dust off of my near forgotten Vax skills {or here-in lack of}) > > You should be able to read TK50 and TK70 tapes on a TF85. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Aug 27 15:50:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: TK 50 with VMS??? In-Reply-To: from "Curt Vendel" at Aug 27, 2002 04:24:00 PM Message-ID: <200208272050.g7RKo6806532@shell1.aracnet.com> > Just picked up a 4000-200 for next to nothing, but I need to install VMS > on TK50, anyone have a VMS Install, maybe ver 4 or 5 or higher???? (I'm > not familiar with a TF85, will it read TK50's and TK70's..... shaking the > dust off of my near forgotten Vax skills {or here-in lack of}) > > Curt I'm not sure you'll be able to even run V5.5-4Hx (I think that's the high mark for V5.5 and I'm not sure what the 'x' was), and I'm pretty sure you can't run plain V5.5. You might need to go with V6.0 in order to have VMS support your hardware. If you can get someone to build you tapes, I'd recommend getting V7.2 or V7.3 instead of earlier versions if you can, as all the doc's are available online. IIRC, the TF85 can read TK50's and TK70's just fine, however, you can't write them. Once you get the system up and running you'll probably want some Compact III DLT tapes (or does it require Compact II tapes). I take it this is the first VMS system you've owned? If so you'll probably find some useful pointers in the VAX section of http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/decemu.html Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Aug 27 15:52:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: TK 50 with VMS??? In-Reply-To: from "Curt Vendel" at Aug 27, 2002 04:45:20 PM Message-ID: <200208272052.g7RKq6D06666@shell1.aracnet.com> > Thanks Eric, I was hoping based on the numbering that it might be backward > compatible, I'd just never heard of a TF drive before. > > Curt More or less TF = DSSI TZ = SCSI Zane From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Aug 27 15:58:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: TK 50 with VMS??? In-Reply-To: <200208272050.g7RKo6806532@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Just picked up a 4000-200 for next to nothing, but I need to install VMS > > on TK50, anyone have a VMS Install, maybe ver 4 or 5 or higher???? (I'm > > not familiar with a TF85, will it read TK50's and TK70's..... shaking the > > dust off of my near forgotten Vax skills {or here-in lack of}) > > > > Curt > > I'm not sure you'll be able to even run V5.5-4Hx (I think that's the high mark > for V5.5 and I'm not sure what the 'x' was), and I'm pretty sure you can't > run plain V5.5. You might need to go with V6.0 in order to have VMS support > your hardware. If you can get someone to build you tapes, I'd recommend > getting V7.2 or V7.3 instead of earlier versions if you can, as all the doc's > are available online. You might also want to sign up for the free DECUS...er..Encompass membership at http://www.encompassus.org/ . After signing up, you'll be able to order a Hobbiest version of OpenVMS from http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/index.html on CDs... of course, if you can't find a bootable CDROM drive like a RRD5x, or don't have SCSI, that might not help you too much I guess. -- Pat From curt at atari-history.com Tue Aug 27 16:17:01 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: TK 50 with VMS??? References: <200208272050.g7RKo6806532@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <008601c24e0e$dc375e40$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Thanks, so go higher VMS Rev level, okay..... my last Vax was a MicroVax II and that was 95' so its been quite a while. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 4:50 PM Subject: Re: TK 50 with VMS??? > > Just picked up a 4000-200 for next to nothing, but I need to install VMS > > on TK50, anyone have a VMS Install, maybe ver 4 or 5 or higher???? (I'm > > not familiar with a TF85, will it read TK50's and TK70's..... shaking the > > dust off of my near forgotten Vax skills {or here-in lack of}) > > > > Curt > > I'm not sure you'll be able to even run V5.5-4Hx (I think that's the high mark > for V5.5 and I'm not sure what the 'x' was), and I'm pretty sure you can't > run plain V5.5. You might need to go with V6.0 in order to have VMS support > your hardware. If you can get someone to build you tapes, I'd recommend > getting V7.2 or V7.3 instead of earlier versions if you can, as all the doc's > are available online. > > IIRC, the TF85 can read TK50's and TK70's just fine, however, you can't > write them. Once you get the system up and running you'll probably want > some Compact III DLT tapes (or does it require Compact II tapes). > > I take it this is the first VMS system you've owned? If so you'll probably > find some useful pointers in the VAX section of > http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/decemu.html > > Zane From curt at atari-history.com Tue Aug 27 16:18:01 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: TK 50 with VMS??? References: Message-ID: <008e01c24e0f$0efb9580$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Hi Pat, I've got a SCSI CDROM, so I could always go that route, I'll look into the links you guys sent, thanks for all the support and help, anyone know what the max memory of a 4000-200 is, I'd like to try and max out the system as much as possible just for the sake of it. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Finnegan" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 4:58 PM Subject: Re: TK 50 with VMS??? > On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > Just picked up a 4000-200 for next to nothing, but I need to install VMS > > > on TK50, anyone have a VMS Install, maybe ver 4 or 5 or higher???? (I'm > > > not familiar with a TF85, will it read TK50's and TK70's..... shaking the > > > dust off of my near forgotten Vax skills {or here-in lack of}) > > > > > > Curt > > > > I'm not sure you'll be able to even run V5.5-4Hx (I think that's the high mark > > for V5.5 and I'm not sure what the 'x' was), and I'm pretty sure you can't > > run plain V5.5. You might need to go with V6.0 in order to have VMS support > > your hardware. If you can get someone to build you tapes, I'd recommend > > getting V7.2 or V7.3 instead of earlier versions if you can, as all the doc's > > are available online. > > You might also want to sign up for the free DECUS...er..Encompass > membership at http://www.encompassus.org/ . After signing up, you'll be > able to order a Hobbiest version of OpenVMS from > http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/index.html on CDs... of course, if you > can't find a bootable CDROM drive like a RRD5x, or don't have SCSI, that > might not help you too much I guess. > > -- Pat > From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Aug 27 16:24:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: TK 50 with VMS??? Message-ID: The TF85/TZ85/TK85 are all the same basic drive, with DSSI/SCSI/STI interfaces respectively. Everything up to the TZ87 can read TK50 (CompacTape) and TK70 (CompacTape II) carts. The TZ87N was a cost-reduced TZ87, some of the cost saving coming from dropping the backwards compatibility. Beyond the TZ87N, nothing (AFAIK) can read TK50 or TK70 carts. Antonio From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Aug 27 16:24:27 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: TK 50 with VMS??? Message-ID: >http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/index.html on CDs... of course, if you >can't find a bootable CDROM drive like a RRD5x, or don't have SCSI, that The RRD50 is only theoretically bootable ... it's less than a 1x drive so it takes sometime longer than the current age of the Universe to actually boot any OS ... An RRD42 or later does quite reasonably. Antonio From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Aug 27 16:32:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: TK 50 with VMS??? In-Reply-To: from "Antonio Carlini" at Aug 27, 2002 10:24:02 PM Message-ID: <200208272131.g7RLVxa08678@shell1.aracnet.com> > The RRD50 is only theoretically bootable ... it's less than a 1x drive > so it takes sometime longer than the current age of the Universe to > actually boot any OS ... > > An RRD42 or later does quite reasonably. > > Antonio Isn't the RRD50 the one with the wierd "pincer" caddy? I've found it to be very bootable and useful. Sure it's *SLOW*, but hey, the important thing is that it boots! OTOH, if you try and hook it up to something like an AlphaStation 200 4/233 I know for a fact it won't work. Zane From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Aug 27 16:35:01 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: TK 50 with VMS??? Message-ID: >I'm not sure you'll be able to even run V5.5-4Hx (I think that's the high mark >for V5.5 and I'm not sure what the 'x' was), and I'm pretty sure you can't >run plain V5.5. You might need to go with V6.0 in order to have VMS support >your hardware. If you can get someone to build you tapes, I'd recommend >getting V7.2 or V7.3 instead of earlier versions if you can, as all the doc's >are available online. While I would agree with the recommendation to go with a modern OpenVMS variant (V7.3 or V7.2), the VAX 4000-200 was in fact supported as far back as VMS V5.4-2. TF85 support may not go back quite that far: I don't have the old VMS SPDs to hand. Antonio From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 27 16:35:26 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: [OT] UK TV Licenses (was Re: These darned old computers) In-Reply-To: <3D6B888C.26803.2D804EA@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > But then again the UK, like most of the industrialized countries in the > world has health-care. In social benefits the US is pretty backward. In *many* respects the US is pretty backward. But that would take this WAY off-topic... Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Aug 27 16:43:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: TK 50 with VMS??? Message-ID: >Isn't the RRD50 the one with the wierd "pincer" caddy? I've found it to be >very bootable and useful. Sure it's *SLOW*, but hey, the important thing is >that it boots! OTOH, if you try and hook it up to something like an >AlphaStation 200 4/233 I know for a fact it won't work. No - the RRD50 is the tabletop device with a pop-up lid. I'm pretty sure it is slower than the (later) RRD40. Both used the KRQ50 Qbus interface, although the RRD40 was also available with an internal converter board that turned it into a SCSI drive. Quite popular in the early VAXstation 3100s, IIRC. I have an RRD40 right in front of me and (again, AFAIK) it can be used as a boot device but unlike the RRD50, it's only dog slow :-) The RRD40 and RRD50 both came from Philips (I think). Both used their LMSI(??) interface. The converter board that helped the RRD40 do SCSI was reputed to be "not that good". Put another way, the RRD40 has a bunch of quirks. I'm not in the least suprised that an AlphaStation turns up its nose at it. (I vaguely remember some alpha console command that can tweak the SCSI interface - perhaps you can persuade the two to get on that way ... assuming you can find the details which I've helpfully forgotten!) Antonio From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Aug 27 16:46:00 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: CoCo Floppies: Was:These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <3D6B9A7B.31447.31E1321@localhost> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020827144331.01bfa4d8@mail.30below.com> <3D6B0209.31574.CA8280@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020827172905.026cd7d8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Lawrence Walker may have mentioned these words: > Do you mean that I could use a 3 1/2" floppy in the 502, with suitable data >connector of course ? That would be even cooler than a 2nd 5 1/4 !! > That would enable me to get into "serious" OS9 stuff. Woo-haa !! Yes, provided you don't try to interface in a HD drive (1.44Meg formatted) and expect it to work... in a pinch, it'll work IFF you use 720Meg floppies that don't have the HD hole punched in them and the floppy honors that switch (some don't and always assume 1.44 Meg) - the datarate is 2x on the HD floppies compared to the DD floppies. FHL had the "eliminator" which gave the CoCo a HD compatible interface; [obviously] it wasn't RS-DOS compatible and was only useful under OS-9; otherwise there was a hack for the original WD1771-based 12-Volt eating controllers that would double the datarate, but this was fairly involved IIRC; never had one of the oldies, so I can't really say for sure... > I just ran up and checked an old data cable for floppies. It does fit > the 502. > I'm surmising that the TEAC (FD-55BV-75-U) was a standard issue floppy > that R-S used so any 34pin 3 1/2 connector could be used to replace the > 2nd edge connector on the 502. That would also imply that I could use 2 3 > 1/2" floppies in there if wanted. Or am I simply running away with > myself. Would the cartridge interface accept 3 1/2" drives ? Sure - they're electrically equivalent, and work fine (I had a DSDD 40track 5.25" drive and 2 DSDD 80track 3.5" floppies hooked up to my CoCo at one point in time). - just remember to use the correct drivers under OS-9 when you sysgen a new bootable floppy... [[Sellam doesn't know what kinda fun he's missing, thinking the CoCos are "crap"...]] BTW, Sellam, if you want a CoCo to mess with that has just about any kinda video you want, just get a CoCo3. It does TV/RF; Composite & analog RGB which can be hooked up to the CM-8 from RS, or any Atari ST/Amiga monitor (with the right cable, mind you) that can sync down to NTSC levels (which are most all the earlier ones...) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Aug 27 18:04:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: TK 50 with VMS??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, Antonio Carlini wrote: > >Isn't the RRD50 the one with the wierd "pincer" caddy? I've found it to be > >very bootable and useful. Sure it's *SLOW*, but hey, the important thing is > >that it boots! OTOH, if you try and hook it up to something like an > >AlphaStation 200 4/233 I know for a fact it won't work. > > No - the RRD50 is the tabletop device with a pop-up lid. > I'm pretty sure it is slower than the (later) RRD40. Both > used the KRQ50 Qbus interface, although the RRD40 > was also available with an internal converter board that > turned it into a SCSI drive. Quite popular in the early > VAXstation 3100s, IIRC. Ugh.. I meant RRD4x. Getting my DEC 5-alphanum scrables mixed up again. -- Pat From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Aug 27 19:38:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: PDP-11 boards Message-ID: I managed to grab a whole bunch of UNIBUS boards without knowing what they were today, and found out that they are basically the boards to an 11/40 CPU. Unforunately, I didn't see the rest of the CPU, or the M7237 board (is it an optional board?) or a backplane or... just the boards: M7231 KD11-A 11/40 data paths module M7232 KD11-A 11/40 micro word module M7233 KD11-A 11/40 IR decode module M7234 KD11-A 11/40 timing module M7235 KD11-A 11/40 processor status module M7236 KT11-D 11/40 memory management module M7238 KE11-E 11/40 EIS board M7239 KE11-F 11/40 FIS control Also I found a pair of 16KW _core_ memory cards (quad width). I separated one board, and the cores are IMHO absolutely beautiful. Two questions: 1) If I could find a backplane and powersuppl(ies), (and some peripheral stuff), is this enough to make a functional CPU? 2) Does anyone want this stuff? I want to definately keep one of the core memory boards, but the rest of it doesn't do me a whole lot of good. I'd like something interesting in trade or some money over shipping costs if so. I'm looking for a PDP-11/73 or -11/23 CPU to upgrade my LSI-11/2 :) along with memory for it (I have 8KW I think), and/or an RQDX1/2/3 or similar controller so I can attach some real (non-emulated) drives to it. I don't have anything to test these boards, so I can't verify that they work, of course, but they look in very good shape... no burn marks, oxidation, not much dust, etc. -- Pat From dan at ekoan.com Tue Aug 27 19:46:00 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: Description for HP 98261-66513? In-Reply-To: References: <200208272050.g7RKo6806532@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020827205022.03abbec0@enigma> Hello, Could someone with a more comprehensive list of Hewlett-Packard part numbers give me a description for part number 98261-66513? Thanks! Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 27 20:02:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: Heathkit H89a In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020826182547.01b3e268@ubanproductions.com> from "Tom Uban" at Aug 26, 2 06:48:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2623 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020827/f2fde0f1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 27 20:03:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <3D6BCF4F.4050401@jetnet.ab.ca> from "Ben Franchuk" at Aug 27, 2 01:13:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 957 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020827/cb1d6f75/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 27 20:03:31 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: CoCo Floppies: Was:These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <3D6B9A7B.31447.31E1321@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Aug 27, 2 03:27:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 760 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020827/90eaf618/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 27 20:03:57 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <33035.64.169.63.74.1030428068.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Aug 26, 2 11:01:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 419 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020827/f3b7de4b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 27 20:04:24 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <200208270817.JAA21438@citadel.metropolis.local> from "Stan Barr" at Aug 27, 2 09:17:36 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1586 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020827/7e91087a/attachment.ksh From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Aug 27 20:13:00 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > Some US company (I forget who) made an ultrasonic remote controlled valve TV > where the remote was essentially tuned metal bars that were mechanically > hit when the button was pressed. No electronics in the handset at all. > The receiver in the TV detected one of 4 (or so) different frequencies > corresponding to the 4 buttons on the remote, and then operated a relay > to trigger the appropriate function (I think channel selection was done > using an electromechanical stepping swtich, etc). > > -tony > I think that was Zenith, My uncle used to have one. It would turn on if you jingled your keys... Peter Wallace From archer at topnow.com Tue Aug 27 20:41:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: These darned old computers References: Message-ID: <3D6C2A4B.5EBDE645@topnow.com> "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: > > On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Some US company (I forget who) made an ultrasonic remote controlled valve TV > > where the remote was essentially tuned metal bars that were mechanically > > hit when the button was pressed. No electronics in the handset at all. > > The receiver in the TV detected one of 4 (or so) different frequencies > > corresponding to the 4 buttons on the remote, and then operated a relay > > to trigger the appropriate function (I think channel selection was done > > using an electromechanical stepping swtich, etc). > > > > -tony > > > I think that was Zenith, My uncle used to have one. It would turn on if you > jingled your keys... > > Peter Wallace Yes, Zenith. If I recall correctly, their remote-control system was called "Space Command" or something like that. From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Aug 27 20:51:00 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <3D6C2A4B.5EBDE645@topnow.com> References: <3D6C2A4B.5EBDE645@topnow.com> Message-ID: > > I think that was Zenith, My uncle used to have one. It would turn on if you > > jingled your keys... >> >Yes, Zenith. If I recall correctly, their remote-control >system was called "Space Command" or something like that. Weren't their TV's sold under the 'System 3' badge for a while in the 70's and possibly into the 80's? Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Tue Aug 27 20:58:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: These darned old computers References: Message-ID: <000d01c24e36$600a1830$3200a8c0@winnt> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" > Some US company (I forget who) made an ultrasonic remote controlled valve TV > where the remote was essentially tuned metal bars that were mechanically > hit when the button was pressed. No electronics in the handset at all. > The receiver in the TV detected one of 4 (or so) different frequencies > corresponding to the 4 buttons on the remote, and then operated a relay > to trigger the appropriate function (I think channel selection was done > using an electromechanical stepping swtich, etc). Boy, that brings back memories. We had one of these sets when I was in high-school. I believe it was a Zenith, though I wouldn't swear to it. I used to get a kick out of clicking the buttons just to hear the sounds. You are correct in that the channel selection was electro-mechanical. It was also a very loud mechanism. This type of remote control is also where the term 'clicker' came from. From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Aug 27 21:14:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <000d01c24e36$600a1830$3200a8c0@winnt> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, Christopher McNabb wrote: > This type of remote control is also where the term 'clicker' came from. Uh, I always thought it came from the very early remotes that used a tone, somewhat like a tuning fork. The audible click _was_ the actuator. My grandparents' TV would change channels at random if you rattled the swag-lamp chain just right. I may have gotten a few hidings behind that.... Doc From archer at topnow.com Tue Aug 27 21:14:37 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: CP/M & Z180 - wow lots of work was done Message-ID: <3D6C3209.E160A139@topnow.com> I guess the magic search key for Google is CP/M and Z180. Wow, a boatload of stuff. Came across schematics for a P112 board, SB180, others, and BIOS listings for CP/M customized to these boards, and lots of other goodies. Does running 10+ year old software on new homebrew hardware count as "half-classed" (or maybe just half-assed) classic computing? Maybe we need a name. I nominate: Repliputing. :) -- Ross From dittman at dittman.net Tue Aug 27 21:23:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: from "Christopher McNabb" at Aug 27, 2002 09:58:16 PM Message-ID: <200208280219.g7S2JeK19778@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > Some US company (I forget who) made an ultrasonic remote controlled valve > TV > > where the remote was essentially tuned metal bars that were mechanically > > hit when the button was pressed. No electronics in the handset at all. > > The receiver in the TV detected one of 4 (or so) different frequencies > > corresponding to the 4 buttons on the remote, and then operated a relay > > to trigger the appropriate function (I think channel selection was done > > using an electromechanical stepping swtich, etc). > > Boy, that brings back memories. We had one of these sets when I was in > high-school. > I believe it was a Zenith, though I wouldn't swear to it. I used to get a > kick out of clicking > the buttons just to hear the sounds. You are correct in that the channel > selection was > electro-mechanical. It was also a very loud mechanism. Yes, I remember these. If you looked in the end of the remote, you could see the metal rods (one for each button). The end of the remote had a screen covering it. We found that you could use a belt buckle as a remote, but the results were pretty random, but when you want to confuse people that was enough. I always found the high-pitched ring from the striker hitting the metal bars annoying. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Aug 27 22:01:01 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: PDP-11 boards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020827220100.01b5a100@ubanproductions.com> Hi Patrick, I am very interested in the 11/40 board set. And if you want to get rid of one of the core boards, that would be fine too, but not a requirement. I happen to have an 11/23 CPU board somewhere, which I would be happy to trade you along with that RL02 terminator for the 11/40 boards (and possibly one of the core board sets). --tom At 07:38 PM 8/27/2002 -0500, you wrote: >I managed to grab a whole bunch of UNIBUS boards without knowing what they >were today, and found out that they are basically the boards to an 11/40 >CPU. Unforunately, I didn't see the rest of the CPU, or the M7237 board >(is it an optional board?) or a backplane or... just the boards: > >M7231 KD11-A 11/40 data paths module >M7232 KD11-A 11/40 micro word module >M7233 KD11-A 11/40 IR decode module >M7234 KD11-A 11/40 timing module >M7235 KD11-A 11/40 processor status module >M7236 KT11-D 11/40 memory management module >M7238 KE11-E 11/40 EIS board >M7239 KE11-F 11/40 FIS control > >Also I found a pair of 16KW _core_ memory cards (quad width). I separated >one board, and the cores are IMHO absolutely beautiful. > >Two questions: > >1) If I could find a backplane and powersuppl(ies), (and some peripheral >stuff), is this enough to make a functional CPU? > >2) Does anyone want this stuff? I want to definately keep one of the core >memory boards, but the rest of it doesn't do me a whole lot of good. I'd >like something interesting in trade or some money over shipping costs if >so. > >I'm looking for a PDP-11/73 or -11/23 CPU to upgrade my LSI-11/2 :) along >with memory for it (I have 8KW I think), and/or an RQDX1/2/3 or similar >controller so I can attach some real (non-emulated) drives to it. > >I don't have anything to test these boards, so I can't verify that they >work, of course, but they look in very good shape... no burn marks, >oxidation, not much dust, etc. > >-- Pat From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Aug 27 23:34:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:53 2005 Subject: PDP-11 boards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The boards have been claimed, thanks. -- Pat On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I managed to grab a whole bunch of UNIBUS boards without knowing what they > were today, and found out that they are basically the boards to an 11/40 > CPU. Unforunately, I didn't see the rest of the CPU, or the M7237 board > (is it an optional board?) or a backplane or... just the boards: > > M7231 KD11-A 11/40 data paths module > M7232 KD11-A 11/40 micro word module > M7233 KD11-A 11/40 IR decode module > M7234 KD11-A 11/40 timing module > M7235 KD11-A 11/40 processor status module > M7236 KT11-D 11/40 memory management module > M7238 KE11-E 11/40 EIS board > M7239 KE11-F 11/40 FIS control > > Also I found a pair of 16KW _core_ memory cards (quad width). I separated > one board, and the cores are IMHO absolutely beautiful. > > Two questions: > > 1) If I could find a backplane and powersuppl(ies), (and some peripheral > stuff), is this enough to make a functional CPU? > > 2) Does anyone want this stuff? I want to definately keep one of the core > memory boards, but the rest of it doesn't do me a whole lot of good. I'd > like something interesting in trade or some money over shipping costs if > so. > > I'm looking for a PDP-11/73 or -11/23 CPU to upgrade my LSI-11/2 :) along > with memory for it (I have 8KW I think), and/or an RQDX1/2/3 or similar > controller so I can attach some real (non-emulated) drives to it. > > I don't have anything to test these boards, so I can't verify that they > work, of course, but they look in very good shape... no burn marks, > oxidation, not much dust, etc. > > -- Pat > > From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 27 23:35:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: CoCo Floppies: Was:These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020827172905.026cd7d8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > [[Sellam doesn't know what kinda fun he's missing, thinking the CoCos are > "crap"...]] No, that was the Commodore 64 until it proves otherwise. The CoCo2 is still up in the air, though I am leaning towards "crap" because of the limited video output capability ;) > BTW, Sellam, if you want a CoCo to mess with that has just about any > kinda video you want, just get a CoCo3. It does TV/RF; Composite & > analog RGB which can be hooked up to the CM-8 from RS, or any Atari > ST/Amiga monitor (with the right cable, mind you) that can sync down to > NTSC levels (which are most all the earlier ones...) I give very high marks to the CoCo3, but I am putting together the CoCo2 and the other systems for a friend of mine who needs them for a book project. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 27 23:39:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > Some US company (I forget who) made an ultrasonic remote controlled > valve TV where the remote was essentially tuned metal bars that were > mechanically hit when the button was pressed. No electronics in the > handset at all. The receiver in the TV detected one of 4 (or so) > different frequencies corresponding to the 4 buttons on the remote, and > then operated a relay to trigger the appropriate function (I think > channel selection was done using an electromechanical stepping swtich, > etc). Boy, I'd like to get my hands on one of those remotes. Anyone know the exact model number of the TV that used it? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mythtech at mac.com Tue Aug 27 23:59:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: These darned old computers Message-ID: >Some US company (I forget who) made an ultrasonic remote controlled valve TV >where the remote was essentially tuned metal bars that were mechanically >hit when the button was pressed. No electronics in the handset at all. >The receiver in the TV detected one of 4 (or so) different frequencies >corresponding to the 4 buttons on the remote, and then operated a relay >to trigger the appropriate function (I think channel selection was done >using an electromechanical stepping swtich, etc). My grandparents had a TV with an ultrasonic remote. I think it was a Zenith, may have been an RCA. And my parents have a Sony with an ultrasonic remote. The remote is long since dead, but back when it worked, you could hold the remote up to your ear and actually hear it clicking different patterns for each button pressed. The remote ceased to work after a bad battery leakage incident. Actually, I should see if they still have the remote as the last time I saw it, I didn't have the skills needed to repair it, but today I probably could. They probably do have it, knowing them, it is still in the holder on the back of the TV where I put it some 20 years ago when I decided it was no longer working (I definitly get my pack rat problems from them). But at least with the Sony remote, IIRC it was transistors that did all the work. I don't know about my grand parents one, as I never opened the remote, but that TV was old enough it might very well have been one of the first with a remote at all. -chris From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Aug 28 00:00:01 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: Way OT: Crazy Brits! ;-) & Amateur TV (was: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: References: <200208270817.JAA21438@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020828002715.00b1dae8@mail.30below.com> At 01:19 08/28/2002 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: [[ Bewarned: this is a multinational email... I'm responding to a UK post from the USA while drinking *too much* Canadian beer... bewarned... ;^> ]] [snip] >This is where lawyers have fun (and run up big bills...) Well, at least we have that in common on both sides of the pond... ;-/ >Incidetnally, the licensing authorities have claimed that all VCRs need a >colour license because all VCRs record in colour. I actually asked them >what license is needed for a Philips N1500 (very early domestic VCR) with >the colour killer switch soldered in the 'on' position so that it records >only in black-and-white. They didn't know.... Weirder & weirder... You mean that if any Brits wish to receive only B&W broadcasts [and have the hardware to prove it], the tax levy is different than color??? After almost 40 years of color TV technology, they still carry a monochrome (more accurately: grayscale ;-) license? Whoa!!! Just when I thought the only the only thing I learned today was "Linux RPM's Suck..." ;-) > > a tuner. AFAIK the situation with broadcast tv over the internet > > has not been resolved yet. Amateur TV is exempt, even for non-hams > > - the licence only applies to broadcast TV. > >That's odd. They told me that to receive amateur television you either >needed an amateur license or a broadcast TV license. But that you >couldn't do so (legally) with no license at all. I cannot speak for the UK frequency laws [obviously] but as a US-licensed Amateur Extra (AB8KK) and an ISP owner who uses *unlicensed* 2.4GHz frequencies to deliver 11Mbit ethernet for Internet connectivity I can say that to transmit _on the amateur [read: ham] bands_ you need to have the appropriate license. However, if there are any non-licensed areas of the spectrum, you wouldn't need a license to broadcast provided you met the frequency & power requirements of those unlicensed bands. Lemme tell ya, 11Mbit is more than enough bandwidth to xmit TV signals, and at least in the US, there are also unlicensed 5.2GHz bands which provide even more bandwidth... And there, friends, is my off-topic post of the day... at least until I get *my* 2.4GHz Internet link... because the first thing going on that is my VAX... ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger P.S. A few years ago, I moaned when Michigan state tax went from 4% to 6%... altho that's more for the mathematical reasons than monetary... (5% is much easier on the noggin for a store owner) and I always felt sorry for my Ontario neighbours with a combined tax of 15%... [ IIRC, which I'm sure I don't: 8% Ont. Provincial tax & 7% GST...) Now I see even *they* don't have it quite so bad... :-/ From donm at cts.com Wed Aug 28 00:19:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Some US company (I forget who) made an ultrasonic remote controlled valve TV > > where the remote was essentially tuned metal bars that were mechanically > > hit when the button was pressed. No electronics in the handset at all. > > The receiver in the TV detected one of 4 (or so) different frequencies > > corresponding to the 4 buttons on the remote, and then operated a relay > > to trigger the appropriate function (I think channel selection was done > > using an electromechanical stepping swtich, etc). > > > > -tony > > > I think that was Zenith, My uncle used to have one. It would turn on if you > jingled your keys... I think you are correct. IIRC, ours was known to come to life under the influence of the vacuum cleaner on occasion. - don > Peter Wallace > > From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Wed Aug 28 01:17:01 2002 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (jarkko.teppo@er-grp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: reviving a HP 9000/310 In-Reply-To: <200208271559130433.00FFAD73@mail.local> References: <200208270153480887.02ABC8F9@mail.local> <20020827060442.GA21609@mail.er-grp.com> <200208271559130433.00FFAD73@mail.local> Message-ID: <20020828061656.GA26122@mail.er-grp.com> On Tue, Aug 27, 2002 at 03:59:13PM +0100, Rumi Szabolcs wrote: > On 2002.08.27 at 09:04 jarkko.teppo@er-grp.com wrote: > > I tried that Ctrl-C trick several times now, but that "If you're lucky" > situation doesn't seem to occur... :( Did you try Ctrl-\ and ctrl-break as well ? My recollections of breaking into those things might be a bit skewed but it always ended up with several reboots and some serious pounding on the keyboard, just before it starts complaining about bcheckrc. Yes, that's scientific. > > Btw, for the curious, I have put another firmware/bootrom screenshot > with the booting selections (it works the way Joe described it). So > one can select which system to boot, this is why I wrote in my first > email that I need the HP-UX floppies: If I could put a bootable HP-UX > floppy disk into the 3.5" drive of the 9153C then it would appear on > that screen as a boot selection option, and I could boot from it. I'd love to get the tapes for a 310. I've got one running basic and I've got distribution tapes from 4.x to 5.x for 9000/500 and from 7.x to 9.x for 9000/300 (no support for 310, I think). Anyway, try pounding the keyboard heavily. Think of it as your enemy. Have no mercy. -- jht From rumi_ml at rtfm.hu Wed Aug 28 04:36:00 2002 From: rumi_ml at rtfm.hu (Rumi Szabolcs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: reviving a HP 9000/310 In-Reply-To: <20020828061656.GA26122@mail.er-grp.com> References: <200208270153480887.02ABC8F9@mail.local> <20020827060442.GA21609@mail.er-grp.com> <200208271559130433.00FFAD73@mail.local> <20020828061656.GA26122@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: <200208281136550701.0535E5EE@mail.local> On 2002.08.28 at 09:16 jarkko.teppo@er-grp.com wrote: >Did you try Ctrl-\ and ctrl-break as well ? My recollections of breaking >into those things might be a bit skewed but it always ended up with several >reboots and some serious pounding on the keyboard, just before it starts >complaining about bcheckrc. Yes, that's scientific. > >I'd love to get the tapes for a 310. I've got one running basic and >I've got distribution tapes from 4.x to 5.x for 9000/500 and from 7.x >to 9.x for 9000/300 (no support for 310, I think). > >Anyway, try pounding the keyboard heavily. Think of it as your enemy. >Have no mercy. well, I am at the serial console which does not generate the signal on Ctrl-\ but echoes the \... using that instead of a local console may make a big difference in this case, but I am trying, trying... ;) Regards, Szabolcs Rumi - From jrice at texoma.net Wed Aug 28 06:41:00 2002 From: jrice at texoma.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: These darned old computers References: Message-ID: <3D6CB762.9000203@texoma.net> I had one of the Zenith with the tuning fork remotes. It was a 19" cabinet model, B&W onlt of course. I purchased it in a yard sale in 1972 for $10.00 to complement my $40.00 a month house. The house was in the "slum" area of town, but it was all an 18 yo, out of high school for 2 weeks and employed at the minimum wage of $1.60/hr could afford. The rats were bigger than my siamsese cat. Later that year, I got a job as an electrican's helper at $2.25/hr. I could afford a slightly better house and a new JCPenny TV, a 19" color model with an ultrasonic remote (transisitor). The color set was a private labeled Toshiba set that lasted well into the late '80's. James Chris wrote: >>Some US company (I forget who) made an ultrasonic remote controlled valve TV >>where the remote was essentially tuned metal bars that were mechanically >>hit when the button was pressed. No electronics in the handset at all. >>The receiver in the TV detected one of 4 (or so) different frequencies >>corresponding to the 4 buttons on the remote, and then operated a relay >>to trigger the appropriate function (I think channel selection was done >>using an electromechanical stepping swtich, etc). >> >> > >My grandparents had a TV with an ultrasonic remote. I think it was a >Zenith, may have been an RCA. > >And my parents have a Sony with an ultrasonic remote. The remote is long >since dead, but back when it worked, you could hold the remote up to your >ear and actually hear it clicking different patterns for each button >pressed. The remote ceased to work after a bad battery leakage incident. > >Actually, I should see if they still have the remote as the last time I >saw it, I didn't have the skills needed to repair it, but today I >probably could. They probably do have it, knowing them, it is still in >the holder on the back of the TV where I put it some 20 years ago when I >decided it was no longer working (I definitly get my pack rat problems >from them). > >But at least with the Sony remote, IIRC it was transistors that did all >the work. I don't know about my grand parents one, as I never opened the >remote, but that TV was old enough it might very well have been one of >the first with a remote at all. > >-chris > > > > > > From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Aug 28 07:51:00 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: Fwd: 11/73 in Denver Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020828074605.0255ce50@pc> >From: Warren Toomey >To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society , > The Unix Heritage Society >Subject: [TUHS] heavy to ship (fwd) >Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 09:19:21 +1000 (EST) > >----- Forwarded message from Joe Dellea ----- > >Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 02:35:12 -0600 >From: Joe Dellea >To: wkt@tuhs.org >Subject: heavy to ship > >Proffessor Toomey: > I have an interesting problem for you.... > > A friend of mine here in Denver, (Colorado,US) is in posession of a >PDP 11/73 and litterally a ton of peripheral hardware- it was left in >her house by her ex-husband who more than likely dumpster-dived it while >working for the phone company. The Ex is a talented Computer guy, but a >bit of an idiot in his personal life.... > >Friend wants to find a new home for this machine. >Friend is erratic. Also fairly pissed off. >Could probably use some money, but mainly wants the thing to go away, >rather than calculate actual dollar value or whatever.... Would be happy >if it went to a good home. > >What does one do in such a situation? > >In my case, I found your web-page near the top of a Google search..... > >Regards, >Joe Dellea >jjdellea@chisp.net > > >----- End of forwarded message from Joe Dellea ----- >_______________________________________________ >TUHS mailing list >TUHS@minnie.tuhs.org >http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Aug 28 09:08:00 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: Olivetti M24 monitor Message-ID: Display Frequrency: 24 MHz Horizontal Freq: 25,862 kHz Vertical Freq: 59,873 Hz Dots per trace: 640 Number of Traces: 400 Power Supply: 15V +- 1.5% I have a block diagram (from AT&T 6300 Plus docs), which I can scan and send you if you want it. Wouter de Waal wrote: > I need to kludge a momitor for an M24 (which is > running some kind of a cutting table for making > rubber boats) > > I remember the machine from student days, and the > monitor was, as far as I remember, not standard > at all. From classiccmp at hexamon.org Wed Aug 28 10:24:00 2002 From: classiccmp at hexamon.org (Francis Bell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: RL01 termination pack pinout References: Message-ID: <3D6A8EDE.2040000@hexamon.org> Hmm, Looking at this again, it appears that you're right about the pinout of the resistor pack. According to the FMPS the pinouts are as follows: A gnd B gnd C dev sel 0 H D drv sel 0 L E drv sel 1 H F drv sel 1 L H write gate H J write gate L K gnd L gnd M sys clk H N sys clk L P gnd R gnd S write data H T write data L U gnd V gnd W drv command L X drv command H Y read data L Z read data H AA gnd BB gnd CC status in L DD status in H EE gnd FF gnd HH status clk L JJ status clk H KK gnd LL gnd MM drv sector pulse L NN drv sector pulse H PP drv ready L RR drv ready H SS drv err L TT drv err H UU AC LO in L (not as shown on RL02 FMPS, which says UU is gnd) UU is cut at the terminator VV gnd So I guess the active pins are seeing 82ohm to ground. I therefore suggest you could build a much simpler version of the terminator by connecting only the active pins to ground via 82ohm. (The printsets for both the RL01 and RL02 drives do not agree with the controller printset - both say that UU is gnd, whereas the controller printset says this is AC LO in L - the controller printset appears to be correct). This terminator does work by the way - at least with my RL01. Francis ---- Tony Duell wrote: >>Just to clarify, the following is the pinout of a terminator that works >>with an >>RL01 drive. It *should* work fine with an RL02 since the same interface > > > The same terminator is used with the RL01, RL02, RK06 and RK07 drives > (and it's the same no matter which controller you use too). I have never > heard of a terminator which works with the RL01 and not with the RL02, > and electrically such a thing would seem to be impossible. > > >>card works with both, so unless there's some oddity about the RL02, this >>should do the trick: >> >>Opening the pack, there is a single large resistor pack, 40 pin. >>Looking at the back of the resistor pack (i.e. looking at the outside of >>the RL01 drive connector) >>the pack is marked with pin numbers; pin1 is at the bottom right, pin 2 >>is at the top right, pin 39 is at the bottom left >>and pin 40 is at the top left. Pin 39 has been cut. All other pins are >>connected. >> >>The resistor pack part number is 13-13242-00 SSM 7934 >> >>Neither side appears to have commoned pins. >> >>Each opposing pair of pins has 160 ohm between them (i.e. between >>pins 1-2, 3-4, 5-6 etc.) Obviously 39-40 is open circuit. > > > I think you'll find it's rather more complicated than that. One of the > (corner) pins is a +5V supply from the drive (essentially TERMPWR). One > of the other (corner?) pins is ground. I believe each pin is connected to > the tap on a potential divider between +5V and ground -- a similar > circuit to a passive SCSI terminator, or a Unibus terminator, or... but > with different value resistors. > > No manual that I have seen gives the resistor values, alas. > > -tony > > From wetwily at mac.com Wed Aug 28 10:24:43 2002 From: wetwily at mac.com (ww) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: More NeXT Stuff In-Reply-To: <00e401c24d52$988909d0$78000240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <67E0A07E-B9E4-11D6-8707-003065ED7126@mac.com> oops - sorry On Monday, August 26, 2002, at 06:47 , John wrote: > After digging into the boxes I got Thursday I found over 150 3.5 FD with > various Next software on them and 12 CD's with Next software. Also I > got 10 > optical disk in cases for the Next along with a Pinnacle Micro external > SCSI > optical reader, model PMO-650. Got two sound boxes that were in parts > and > need to be repaired. Will put together a list of the software and send > it > later. > > From vcf at siconic.com Wed Aug 28 10:25:05 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 Date Change - October 26-27 Message-ID: Please note that the dates for Vintage Computer Festival 5.0 have changed. The new dates are October 26th and 27th, 2002. Please make a note of this in your calendar. The location of VCF 5.0 is still the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, California. Again, the new dates for VCF 5.0 are October 26th and 27th. Further information about VCF 5.0 can be found on the Vintage Computer Festival wesbite: http://www.vintage.org/2002/main/ -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Wed Aug 28 10:25:31 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 date change means more time to prepare an exhibit Message-ID: Now that the VCF dates have changed, it gives you procrastinators another month to prepare an exhibit. We could certainly use more exhibits this year so if you are considering it, visit the exhibitor information page: http://www.vintage.org/2002/main/exhibit.php For those of you who had other plans for the old dates, the new dates represent an opportunity to come, so mark your calendar! And if you want to sell anything at the VCF, either as a vendor or on consignment, there is still plenty of space available: http://www.vintage.org/2002/main/vendor.php See you there! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 28 11:17:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: Amiga GPIB/IEEE-488 card? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020827120656.0255ce50@pc> Message-ID: <20020828161656.36972.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Foust wrote: > At 12:40 PM 8/26/2002 -0400, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > There's an Amiga 3000 on eBay that purports to have a Zorro-II > GPIB interface. This is the first time I've heard of one of these. Does > anyone have one? What was it used for? > > As I recalled, and as a quick Google confirmed, ASDG made > one for a while: > > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=amiga+gpib > > As for what it was used for - who knows. I don't remember > a particular application. The nature of GPIB suggests that there _was_ no particular application. Typically (in the instrument world) have a data collection/logger package and you use GPIB to get data into your application, or, very commonly, especially 10+ years ago, you rolled your own. I don't think anyone ever shipped a GPIB interface that did not come with programming support for BASIC or whatever was the predominant end-user language on the system. Not all users of GPIB interfaces and instruments also purchased out-of-the-box applications. Given the modern Windoze era we are in, I'm certain that there _are_ ready-to-use data logger/analyzer software packages available from the vendors of said GPIB interfaces, but I personally have had no experience with them, only home-grown apps. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Aug 28 11:32:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: Amiga GPIB/IEEE-488 card? References: <20020828161656.36972.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D6CFA30.BC962815@ccp.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- John Foust wrote: > > At 12:40 PM 8/26/2002 -0400, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > There's an Amiga 3000 on eBay that purports to have a Zorro-II > > GPIB interface. This is the first time I've heard of one of these. Does > > anyone have one? What was it used for? > > > > As I recalled, and as a quick Google confirmed, ASDG made > > one for a while: > > > > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=amiga+gpib > > > > As for what it was used for - who knows. I don't remember > > a particular application. > Only thing I could surmise would be for someone to be able to use PET drives and printers. The question is why? Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Aug 28 11:34:01 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: Amiga GPIB/IEEE-488 card? In-Reply-To: <20020828161656.36972.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.0.0.25.0.20020827120656.0255ce50@pc> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020828112455.022d8bd8@pc> At 09:16 AM 8/28/2002 -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: >--- John Foust wrote: >> As for what it was used for - who knows. I don't remember >> a particular application. > >The nature of GPIB suggests that there _was_ no particular application. >Typically (in the instrument world) have a data collection/logger >package and you use GPIB to get data into your application, or, very >commonly, especially 10+ years ago, you rolled your own. Yes, that's what I meant. I didn't think I needed to explain GPIB to this crowd. On the other hand, I don't remember ASDG demo-ing any particular application when they shipped it. ASDG was a mile or two from my apartment in Madison at the time. I remember seeing the iSBX-based cards they tried at that time. - John From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 28 11:40:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: Apple II hi-res and DRAM refresh (was RE: TRS-80 Model III) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020807230838.00adcff8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <20020828164001.4290.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Roger Merchberger wrote: > Every machine has it's pros & cons... the video memory mapping that > seemed to defy logic on the Apple ][s is one of the main reasons why > I never stuck with them... With my early experience having come from the Commodore world, I admit that the hi-res mapping on the Apple ][ struck me as odd, too; but when I programming professionally on it, our graphics guru whipped up a fast and simple row->address lookup routine and we didn't have to worry about it from an application standpoint. The "logic" is that the video refresh circuit doubles as a DRAM refresh counter. By decoupling the sequential nature of the CPU's view of the hi-res page and the video output circuit's view of the same memory, the timing lines up and results in a simpler refresh circuit (i.e., you don't have to refresh every byte in a DRAM chip, just every row, every so often; the mapping is driven by the bit geometry of the 4116 DRAM and how many columns there are per row). I forget how many chips Woz saved, but I think it was between 1 and 4. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 28 11:43:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: Text? (was: Intergraph interserve 2000 for free In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020828164337.44146.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Lawson wrote: > May I suggest: > > 14.070 to 14.110 MHtz, USB, 170 Shift... especially weekends. > > You'll need a few trivial details, like a Ham License of at least > General Class, an HF rig, and some kind of Terminal Unit / Decoder / > Radio Modem.... perhpas you'll even have a Real Mechanical Teletype. Need to upgrade my status (currently Tech w/code) Not so hard now that they capped the code proficiency requirement at 5 wpm! > If 45.45 Baudot don't crank yer tractor... Got the Model 28 (as soon as Dan Cohoe drops by) _and_ got the tractor - 1948 Ford 8N. I'll have to look on eBay for the PTO-TTY coupler :-) -ethan N8TVD __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 28 11:50:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: Amiga GPIB/IEEE-488 card? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020828112455.022d8bd8@pc> Message-ID: <20020828165043.42535.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Foust wrote: > Yes, that's what I meant. I didn't think I needed to explain > GPIB to this crowd. I didn't mean to suggest that you didn't know. I was thinking of the many folks here who have never run across it. > On the other hand, I don't remember ASDG > demo-ing any particular application when they shipped it. I don't think they did. I remember when the card came out. I have no memory of any application software coming with it. There might or might not have been a driver; I don't recall. You might have had to code to the card, at least at first. ISTR it was provided more as a curiosity, since the platform physically supported it, than as filling customer needs, thus the lack of software support. > ASDG was a mile or two from my apartment in Madison at the > time. I remember seeing the iSBX-based cards they tried at > that time. > > - John > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Aug 28 11:55:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: [OT] UK TV Licenses (was Re: These darned old computers) References: Message-ID: <3D6D00B6.6030701@tiac.net> Backwards? What little things like the right of self-defense? This is laughable, comming from the UK! Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > >> But then again the UK, like most of the industrialized countries in the >>world has health-care. In social benefits the US is pretty backward. >> > >In *many* respects the US is pretty backward. > >But that would take this WAY off-topic... > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020828/44cd0c96/attachment.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Aug 28 11:59:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <3D6CB762.9000203@texoma.net> Message-ID: > I had one of the Zenith with the tuning fork remotes. It was a 19" I have some X10 controllers that have ultrasonic remotes. Later on they switched to IR. My old alarm clock sitting next to the X10 controller used to do funny things to the lights. Is there desire for such? (should I bring to VCF) From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Aug 28 12:18:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: These darned old computers References: Message-ID: <3D6D062F.6010604@tiac.net> Strange, I've got a cat who also loves HP manuals, and old HP hardware too. This cat loves to climb up on top of a 6-foot HP rack and dangle over the top edge, occationally batting at the LEDs on the front pannel of a HP2113 when it runs a 'Cylon' blinky-light idel loop. Tony Duell wrote: >>OK. But if you have a cat, watch out for the cat detector van from the >>Ministry of Ousing. >> > >That's 'Ministry of Housinge' in the scripts.... > >And, FWIW, I have access to a cat. A neighbours cat who loves HP stuff (I >kid you not, he will pick a pile of HP manuals to sleep on if he gets the >chance). Cats are the only creatures who are allowed to knock parts off >my workbench without getting flamed :-) > >-tony > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020828/b4f29aa7/attachment.html From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Aug 28 12:20:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: PDP-11 boards References: Message-ID: <3D6D069A.3010109@tiac.net> Tom Uban has a PDP-11/35 he's been restoring. Same CPU, different chassis.... Patrick Finnegan wrote: >I managed to grab a whole bunch of UNIBUS boards without knowing what they >were today, and found out that they are basically the boards to an 11/40 >CPU. Unforunately, I didn't see the rest of the CPU, or the M7237 board >(is it an optional board?) or a backplane or... just the boards: > >M7231 KD11-A 11/40 data paths module >M7232 KD11-A 11/40 micro word module >M7233 KD11-A 11/40 IR decode module >M7234 KD11-A 11/40 timing module >M7235 KD11-A 11/40 processor status module >M7236 KT11-D 11/40 memory management module >M7238 KE11-E 11/40 EIS board >M7239 KE11-F 11/40 FIS control > >Also I found a pair of 16KW _core_ memory cards (quad width). I separated >one board, and the cores are IMHO absolutely beautiful. > >Two questions: > >1) If I could find a backplane and powersuppl(ies), (and some peripheral >stuff), is this enough to make a functional CPU? > >2) Does anyone want this stuff? I want to definately keep one of the core >memory boards, but the rest of it doesn't do me a whole lot of good. I'd >like something interesting in trade or some money over shipping costs if >so. > >I'm looking for a PDP-11/73 or -11/23 CPU to upgrade my LSI-11/2 :) along >with memory for it (I have 8KW I think), and/or an RQDX1/2/3 or similar >controller so I can attach some real (non-emulated) drives to it. > >I don't have anything to test these boards, so I can't verify that they >work, of course, but they look in very good shape... no burn marks, >oxidation, not much dust, etc. > >-- Pat > > From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Aug 28 12:34:00 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: Tractors? (Was: Text? (was.... In-Reply-To: <20020828164337.44146.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020828132620.01d5f0e0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Ethan Dicks may have mentioned these words: >--- John Lawson wrote: > > May I suggest: > > > > 14.070 to 14.110 MHtz, USB, 170 Shift... especially weekends. > > > > You'll need a few trivial details, like a Ham License of at least > > General Class, an HF rig, and some kind of Terminal Unit / Decoder / > > Radio Modem.... perhpas you'll even have a Real Mechanical Teletype. > >Need to upgrade my status (currently Tech w/code) Not so hard now >that they capped the code proficiency requirement at 5 wpm! That's why I'm glad I just knocked everything out... 2 steps: Tech & General written first round, 2 months later, Extra written & code (passed by the hair on my chinny-chin-chin)... I'z all done! Whew! [Figgered I'd do that so I'd be grandfathered, just in case they upped the code back to 13wpm in the future...] > > If 45.45 Baudot don't crank yer tractor... > >Got the Model 28 (as soon as Dan Cohoe drops by) _and_ got the >tractor - 1948 Ford 8N. I'll have to look on eBay for the >PTO-TTY coupler :-) 1971 John Deere 110 - Runs great, but tranny stuck in reverse... should have it fixed over the winter, i hope... 198? John Deere 175 - main house lawn tractor - deck kinda small (38"), but for my postage stamp lawn in town, it's fine... 1996 John Deere 345 - Farm lawn tractor - hydraulic power steering & mower deck lift - 54" deck & cruise control... :-)) -- enough with the toyz -- 1953 Farmall Cub - runs *great* - this one's my baby... 1964 International 504 - for the 7" snowblower & loader (and if you *need* 45HP for that PTO-TTY adapter... ;-) [[ And should I mention the 2 Gravely 2-wheel tractors by the barn? ;-) ]] Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 28 12:35:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: Need PC-AT "keyboard BIOS" docs In-Reply-To: <3D508CBF.4070004@eoni.com> Message-ID: <20020828173446.50095.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> I had this idea for a keyboard adapter for classic machines, but I don't understand the 40-pin "keyboard BIOS" microcontroller well enough to know if it's possible... The idea is this - a PS/2-keyboard to RS-232 converter - plug in any AT- style keyboard, hook the other end into the receive pin of the target's console port. I started from a) a microprocessor-based OMNIBUS peripheral and wanted to put an LCD or VFD on it for status and control. Then I decided I wanted to be able to _talk_ to the embedded processor, not just listen, but without the bulk and hassle of a dedicated VT100 or laptop. If I could cobble up a simple way to turn PS/2-style keyboard strokes into 9600 baud ASCII characters, I could leave that circuit in place and plug in a keyboard as needed. I know that the 6402 serial chip can be strapped to operate in a dumb converter mode - I've seen it used in GPIB<->serial boxes for the PET with no microcontroller in the box. Depending on the microprocessor-facing end of an AT "keyboard BIOS" chip, I was thinking that you could pull one from an old motherboard (that still had them independent from the core chipset), run the scan codes through a translator EPROM, use the "release" scan codes as a trigger to a latch that would hold the character in place for the 6402 to send. Three major chips and about an afternoon of point-to-point wiring, maybe a TTL part or two, to drive the keyboard and maybe trigger the UART. Does this sound like a reasonable approach? I'm not opposed to using a PIC or Atmel microcontroller, but a no-CPU approach with stuff from my junk box is especially appealing. I have a lifetime supply of low density EPROMs, a stack of 6402s and old motherboards with removable keyboard chips. Just not sure it's possible since I don't understand the keyboard chip at the moment. So... is there a good place (on the web) to learn about the "keyboard BIOS" chip? Alternatively, is there already a project like this that I can clone? If anyone has any examples of how to attach a PeeCee keyboard to a 68000 or 6502 directly, without going through a UART, I guess I'd be interested in that, too; but since I was already planning on sticking a Z8530 or 6551 or 16550 chip on the OMNIBUS board anyway, I might as well use the same serial port for all embedded console I/O. Thanks for any pointers, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Aug 28 12:35:32 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: PDP-11 boards In-Reply-To: <3D6D069A.3010109@tiac.net> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020828123515.01b51948@ubanproductions.com> Thanks Bob. Yep, I am always looking for extra spares for the 11/35. Patrick indicated in private email "Sorry, the 11/40 boards got claimed by a better offer :)". I guess that my offer and previous generosity (with the RL02 terminator) didn't add up... --tom At 01:21 PM 8/28/2002 -0400, Bob Shannon wrote: >Tom Uban has a PDP-11/35 he's been restoring. Same CPU, different chassis.... > >Patrick Finnegan wrote: > >>I managed to grab a whole bunch of UNIBUS boards without knowing what they >>were today, and found out that they are basically the boards to an 11/40 >>CPU. Unforunately, I didn't see the rest of the CPU, or the M7237 board >>(is it an optional board?) or a backplane or... just the boards: >> >>M7231 KD11-A 11/40 data paths module >>M7232 KD11-A 11/40 micro word module >>M7233 KD11-A 11/40 IR decode module >>M7234 KD11-A 11/40 timing module >>M7235 KD11-A 11/40 processor status module >>M7236 KT11-D 11/40 memory management module >>M7238 KE11-E 11/40 EIS board >>M7239 KE11-F 11/40 FIS control >> >>Also I found a pair of 16KW _core_ memory cards (quad width). I separated >>one board, and the cores are IMHO absolutely beautiful. >> >>Two questions: >> >>1) If I could find a backplane and powersuppl(ies), (and some peripheral >>stuff), is this enough to make a functional CPU? >> >>2) Does anyone want this stuff? I want to definately keep one of the core >>memory boards, but the rest of it doesn't do me a whole lot of good. I'd >>like something interesting in trade or some money over shipping costs if >>so. >> >>I'm looking for a PDP-11/73 or -11/23 CPU to upgrade my LSI-11/2 :) along >>with memory for it (I have 8KW I think), and/or an RQDX1/2/3 or similar >>controller so I can attach some real (non-emulated) drives to it. >> >>I don't have anything to test these boards, so I can't verify that they >>work, of course, but they look in very good shape... no burn marks, >>oxidation, not much dust, etc. >> >>-- Pat >> > > From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Aug 28 12:44:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: PDP-11 boards In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020828123515.01b51948@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > Thanks Bob. Yep, I am always looking for extra spares for the 11/35. > Patrick indicated > in private email "Sorry, the 11/40 boards got claimed by a better offer > :)". I guess that > my offer and previous generosity (with the RL02 terminator) didn't add up... > > --tom Well when you get offered basically everything you need to build a new 11/73 (cpu, memory, disk controller, etc) for it vs a terminator + a cpu, well, you do the math... I'm just greedy I guess. -- Pat From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Wed Aug 28 12:45:01 2002 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: Ok ... I'm back.... Message-ID: Well, I feel a bit like Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson, but "I'm back..." I've been fighting a few demons, some still unsuccessfully, but I feel like I can devote more time to my beloved hobby now... The collection has grown a bit, and shrunk a bit :-), some given away, some sold, some gotten free, some purchased (are there any other ways? :-)). Some stuff will continue to leave over the next few months as I settle down a bit ... So, to keep on-topic, what have I gotten lately? - A SWEET Heathkit H89, with manuals, disks, etc. (Yes, I'll be contacting Tom off-list). This was bought from a man in Kansas, who was the original builder, and even included the original receipts! He kept great records, and passed it all on to me. Cool! Now I just need to find some blank 5.25" hard-sectored disks to make backups of what he sent me. - A couple of Motorola Single-board computers, 6802D5 and 6800D2 I believe - An Intel SDK-85 -- Needs work on the keypad, but OK otherwise - A Xerox 820 (CPU/Monitor, Keyboard, 5.25" floppy drives), with disks/manuals/spare parts. - An Apple IIe "upgraded" to a IIgs -- This is basically a IIe case, but with a ROM 01 IIgs motherboard, and a special back plate for the IIgs ports. Also replaces the IIe logos on the case with "IIgs" ... Very nice! - Various Apple II stuff -- CMS SCSI cards w/ manuals and disks, A "Quickie" hand scanner for the IIgs w/ manuals and disks, RAMfast SCSI card, Zip GSX accelerator for the IIgs, Syquest removeable 44MB drive for the IIgs (not Syquest drive, but uses Syquest 44MB media), High-Speed SCSI card, various software - PowerMac 8500 w/ 500MHz G3 (1MB cache) upgrade -- Yeah, not vintage, but a sweet deal! :-P Anyway, thanks for letting me ramble ... Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Aug 28 12:49:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: Tractors? (Was: Text? (was.... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020828132620.01d5f0e0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: > > > If 45.45 Baudot don't crank yer tractor... > >Got the Model 28 (as soon as Dan Cohoe drops by) _and_ got the > >tractor - 1948 Ford 8N. I'll have to look on eBay for the > >PTO-TTY coupler :-) Would an old Centronics Tractor Feed do the job? From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Wed Aug 28 12:49:31 2002 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: Paging Tothwolf, Gene Ehrich and John Foust Message-ID: Sorry to use the list for this, but I lost some older emails, and no longer have the email adresses for you... Gene/Toth, Remember those PS/1 diskettes I told you would be coming 4 months ago?? They're finally sent (thankfully, your mailing addresses were stored separately from my email), along with humblest apologies... You may flame at will... John, Hard to believe I am so inept as to still owe you for the DEC LN03R stuff you sent eons ago.... Do you have a PayPal account? If not, the money will be sent in tomorrow's mail... Again, feel free to flame.... Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From archer at topnow.com Wed Aug 28 12:52:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: These darned old computers References: <3D6D062F.6010604@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3D6D0DC3.26133ED5@topnow.com> Bob Shannon wrote: > > Strange, > > I've got a cat who also loves HP manuals, and old HP > hardware too. This cat loves to climb up on > top of a 6-foot HP rack and dangle over the top edge, > occationally batting at the LEDs on the > front pannel of a HP2113 when it runs a 'Cylon' > blinky-light idel loop. It's the catnip they always used in their manuals and plastic parts? ;) > > Tony Duell wrote: > > >> OK. But if you have a cat, watch out for the cat > >> detector van from the > >> Ministry of Ousing. > >> > > That's 'Ministry of Housinge' in the scripts.... > > And, FWIW, I have access to a cat. A neighbours cat who > > loves HP stuff (I > > kid you not, he will pick a pile of HP manuals to sleep > > on if he gets the > > chance). Cats are the only creatures who are allowed to > > knock parts off > > my workbench without getting flamed :-) > > -tony > > From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Aug 28 12:55:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: Need PC-AT "keyboard BIOS" docs In-Reply-To: <20020828173446.50095.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ethan, Look through the back of any Circuit Cellar or Nuts'n'Volts mag. There are a number of PS/2 and PC/AT keyboard to serial converters. And I believe Circuit Cellar had just such a project a few years ago. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 13:35 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Need PC-AT "keyboard BIOS" docs I had this idea for a keyboard adapter for classic machines, but I don't understand the 40-pin "keyboard BIOS" microcontroller well enough to know if it's possible... The idea is this - a PS/2-keyboard to RS-232 converter - plug in any AT- style keyboard, hook the other end into the receive pin of the target's console port. I started from a) a microprocessor-based OMNIBUS peripheral and wanted to put an LCD or VFD on it for status and control. Then I decided I wanted to be able to _talk_ to the embedded processor, not just listen, but without the bulk and hassle of a dedicated VT100 or laptop. If I could cobble up a simple way to turn PS/2-style keyboard strokes into 9600 baud ASCII characters, I could leave that circuit in place and plug in a keyboard as needed. I know that the 6402 serial chip can be strapped to operate in a dumb converter mode - I've seen it used in GPIB<->serial boxes for the PET with no microcontroller in the box. Depending on the microprocessor-facing end of an AT "keyboard BIOS" chip, I was thinking that you could pull one from an old motherboard (that still had them independent from the core chipset), run the scan codes through a translator EPROM, use the "release" scan codes as a trigger to a latch that would hold the character in place for the 6402 to send. Three major chips and about an afternoon of point-to-point wiring, maybe a TTL part or two, to drive the keyboard and maybe trigger the UART. Does this sound like a reasonable approach? I'm not opposed to using a PIC or Atmel microcontroller, but a no-CPU approach with stuff from my junk box is especially appealing. I have a lifetime supply of low density EPROMs, a stack of 6402s and old motherboards with removable keyboard chips. Just not sure it's possible since I don't understand the keyboard chip at the moment. So... is there a good place (on the web) to learn about the "keyboard BIOS" chip? Alternatively, is there already a project like this that I can clone? If anyone has any examples of how to attach a PeeCee keyboard to a 68000 or 6502 directly, without going through a UART, I guess I'd be interested in that, too; but since I was already planning on sticking a Z8530 or 6551 or 16550 chip on the OMNIBUS board anyway, I might as well use the same serial port for all embedded console I/O. Thanks for any pointers, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Aug 28 13:04:00 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: Paging Tothwolf, Gene Ehrich and John Foust Message-ID: <11c.16275d4b.2a9e6a81@aol.com> In a message dated 8/28/2002 12:51:09 PM Central Daylight Time, r_beaudry@hotmail.com writes: << Sorry to use the list for this, but I lost some older emails, and no longer have the email adresses for you... Gene/Toth, Remember those PS/1 diskettes I told you would be coming 4 months ago?? >> What model PS/1 do they belong to? I would love to get a copy from the recipients. I have several models, and I regularly get requests from people who see mine wanting to restore the preload. From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Aug 28 13:09:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <3D6D062F.6010604@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > Strange, > > I've got a cat who also loves HP manuals, and old HP hardware too. This > cat loves to climb up on > top of a 6-foot HP rack and dangle over the top edge, occationally > batting at the LEDs on the > front pannel of a HP2113 when it runs a 'Cylon' blinky-light idel loop. Mine is a Big Blue fan. She'll try to climb _into_ my 7013-560 if I run it without the side panels. Likes to cuddle up to the 43P, too. She seems to enjoy the [slightly off-topic] Indigo2, too. I used to think it was just the vibes from the big fans, but the BA123 and the BA23s don't interest her at all. Doc From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Wed Aug 28 13:09:30 2002 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: Heathkit H89 Message-ID: >>Be waned that the hardware manual is a fairly thick book, and has a >>separate pile of sheets that contain the schematics, PCB layouts, and so >>on. It's an excellent manual (as you'd expect from Heathkit), but it >>won't be trivial to copy. >If I can find someone with a spare manual, that would be preferable, but >I >am determined enough to do the copying if need be. I have a spare manual on the H89 (yours for no charge), and a bunch of other H89-related stuff ... Contact me off-list, and we can work out the details.... Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Wed Aug 28 13:10:01 2002 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: Heathkit H89 Message-ID: >>Be waned that the hardware manual is a fairly thick book, and has a >>separate pile of sheets that contain the schematics, PCB layouts, and so >>on. It's an excellent manual (as you'd expect from Heathkit), but it >>won't be trivial to copy. >If I can find someone with a spare manual, that would be preferable, >but I >am determined enough to do the copying if need be. I have a spare manual on the H89 (yours for no charge), and a bunch of other H89-related stuff ... Contact me off-list, and we can work out the details.... Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 28 13:22:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: Apple II hi-res and DRAM refresh (was RE: TRS-80 Model III) In-Reply-To: <20020828164001.4290.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > With my early experience having come from the Commodore world, I admit > that the hi-res mapping on the Apple ][ struck me as odd, too; but when > I programming professionally on it, our graphics guru whipped up a fast > and simple row->address lookup routine and we didn't have to worry about > it from an application standpoint. Yes, it adds a few cycles to the plotting of points, and it is quite lame, but we must look at the history of why it is like this, as Ethan describes below. > The "logic" is that the video refresh circuit doubles as a DRAM refresh > counter. By decoupling the sequential nature of the CPU's view of the > hi-res page and the video output circuit's view of the same memory, the > timing lines up and results in a simpler refresh circuit (i.e., you > don't have to refresh every byte in a DRAM chip, just every row, every > so often; the mapping is driven by the bit geometry of the 4116 DRAM and > how many columns there are per row). I forget how many chips Woz saved, > but I think it was between 1 and 4. Woz was all about efficiency in design: a true hacker. The hack was very clever for the day (1977) and saved on chip costs, which were still high back then. Also, Woz believed that anything that could be done in software should, and stuck with a minimalist hardware design attitude. Yes, it's totally lame to those who came up on computers with normal, sequential graphics screens, but as Ethan mentioned, a simple look-up table (consisting of $180 bytes) and some convenient 6502 opcodes (load accumulator indirect indexed) fixes the problem quite nicely and easily. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 28 13:28:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > I had one of the Zenith with the tuning fork remotes. It was a 19" > > I have some X10 controllers that have ultrasonic remotes. Later on they > switched to IR. > My old alarm clock sitting next to the X10 controller used to do funny > things to the lights. > > Is there desire for such? (should I bring to VCF) If you do, I'll buy it (if nobody else does first ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 28 13:32:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: Ok ... I'm back.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Rich Beaudry wrote: > - A Xerox 820 (CPU/Monitor, Keyboard, 5.25" floppy drives), with > disks/manuals/spare parts. I just got one of these myself (yesterday). I must be retarded because I couldn't figure out how to slip off the case after I removed the screws on the back. > - An Apple IIe "upgraded" to a IIgs -- This is basically a IIe case, but > with a ROM 01 IIgs motherboard, and a special back plate for the IIgs ports. > Also replaces the IIe logos on the case with "IIgs" ... Very nice! These kits were available when I was using my //e but I never actually saw one in the wild. It'd be nice to come across one someday. > - Various Apple II stuff -- CMS SCSI cards w/ manuals and disks, A > "Quickie" hand scanner for the IIgs w/ manuals and disks, RAMfast SCSI > card, Zip GSX accelerator for the IIgs, Syquest removeable 44MB drive > for the IIgs (not Syquest drive, but uses Syquest 44MB media), > High-Speed SCSI card, various software Nice stuff. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Aug 28 13:38:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: Heathkit H89 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020828133903.01acc098@ubanproductions.com> Hi Rich, Thanks! Please let me know if I can help you out and what the shipping costs are... What "other H89-related stuff" do you have? Tom Uban 308 Jefferson Street Valparaiso, IN 46383 --tom At 06:10 PM 8/28/2002 +0000, you wrote: >>>Be waned that the hardware manual is a fairly thick book, and has a >>>separate pile of sheets that contain the schematics, PCB layouts, and so >>>on. It's an excellent manual (as you'd expect from Heathkit), but it >>>won't be trivial to copy. > >>If I can find someone with a spare manual, that would be preferable, >but >>I am determined enough to do the copying if need be. > >I have a spare manual on the H89 (yours for no charge), and a bunch of >other H89-related stuff ... Contact me off-list, and we can work out the >details.... > >Rich B. > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 28 14:01:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: Tractors? (Was: Text? (was.... Message-ID: 7 inch snowblower? That seems sort of small to me... _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 28 14:14:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: Tractors? (Was: Text? (was.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020828191430.65021.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Will Jennings wrote: > 7 inch snowblower? That seems sort of small to me... That reminds me of a girl I used to... :-) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From vcf at siconic.com Wed Aug 28 14:35:00 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: Tandy 1400FD available in Freeport, New York until mid-October Message-ID: Anyone who would like a Tandy 1400FD should contact Elizabeth at before mid-October. She is here from Guyana and brought this machine along to give to someone who would want it for their collection. I tried to get it to a collector in Argentina but he couldn't afford the shipping. Reply-to: -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From listor at melin.org Wed Aug 28 14:41:14 2002 From: listor at melin.org (Joacim Melin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: PDP-11 boards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You guys should contact my friend Jonas Andersson on jonas.andersson@wwf.se. He used to collect old PDP11-stuff and has a box or two with PDP11/34-boards that he would love to get rid of. Joacim On onsdag, aug 28, 2002, at 19:43 Europe/Stockholm, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > >> Thanks Bob. Yep, I am always looking for extra spares for the 11/35. >> Patrick indicated >> in private email "Sorry, the 11/40 boards got claimed by a better >> offer >> :)". I guess that >> my offer and previous generosity (with the RL02 terminator) didn't >> add up... >> >> --tom > > Well when you get offered basically everything you need to build a new > 11/73 (cpu, memory, disk controller, etc) for it vs a terminator + a > cpu, > well, you do the math... I'm just greedy I guess. > > -- Pat > From stanb at dial.pipex.com Wed Aug 28 15:01:00 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:54 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 28 Aug 2002 01:19:47 BST." Message-ID: <200208280831.JAA31843@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said: > I said: >> a tuner. AFAIK the situation with broadcast tv over the internet >> has not been resolved yet. Amateur TV is exempt, even for non-hams >> - the licence only applies to broadcast TV. > That's odd. They told me that to receive amateur television you either > needed an amateur license or a broadcast TV license. But that you > couldn't do so (legally) with no license at all. I was going by an article I read in a ham radio mag a few years ago. However, this could be a complicated issue :-) The general public is allowed, I think, to receive transmisions from radio amateurs without any licence, but I don't know if tv is specifically mentioned, or excluded. According to the back of my tv licence the licence is _specifically_ for equipment for receiving television programmes. As amateurs are forbidden to broadcast as such, and may only direct transmissions to a specific station or stations, I would argue that their transmissions constitute communications, not programmes. However this is the sort of thing lawers love to argue about. I suspect that once again we have an issue where if you ask two different officials you'll get two different answers! -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Aug 28 17:05:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: OpenVMS/Alpha Games? Message-ID: <200208282205.g7SM5Iu03164@shell1.aracnet.com> I'm trying to get a selection of games that will work on a Serial Terminal up and running on my OpenVMS server (a PWS 433au running OpenVMS 7.2-1H1). I'm finding that most games that are available for VMS date back to VAX/VMS V3 or earlier. Does anyone know of any besides the following that will work? Advent 4.0A - Native Dungeon 3.2B - Native Empire 4.0 - Native NetHack 3.3.1 - Native Moria 4.5 - Vested Rogue 3.0 - Vested (doesn't seem to display right) King - Native Spacwr - Native (very old Star Trek game) Spacemine - Native (Ported from an old book of Basic Games I've had for about 20 Years) Angband 2.8.0 - Native (but requires DECwindows) I'm really looking for copies of the following that will work on an Alpha running OpenVMS: Angband (that will work on a serial terminal) Rogue (a version that works right) zcode emulator Decent Star Trek game DND Moria 4.8 or 5.0 Newer version of Empire Conquest I'm also interested in any other good ones that I might not know about. Zane From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Aug 28 17:18:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: Way OT: Crazy Brits! ;-) & Amateur TV (was: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020828002715.00b1dae8@mail.30below.com> References: Message-ID: <3D6D03F3.24531.8A24A15@localhost> The 8% sales and 7% services tax applies (not to food-stuff and childrens goods) just about in all provinces. I believe only in fundamentalist, oil-rich Alberta is the sales tax not required. When it was first brought in it was supposedly a temporary measure (Sure, just like income tax when it was introduced in the 20's) and the present government at one time campaigned on a promise to repeal it. IIRC Canada also had a radio license tax in the 30s. It originally funded CBC At present CBC-Radio is still ad-free but CBC-TV isn't. It has continually come under attack and eviscerated by governments unhappy at it's content unfettered by government and corporate (advertising) control and is now a shadow of it's forrmer self. A couple of the newest licensing wrinkles is a gun control one ( there has long been a required one for handguns and how many banks are held up with shotguns ?) and in Manitoba, a boating license, which has just about driven most fishing lodges out of business. On these points I agree with our right- wing neighbors in the US. It's more than just income, it's about control. Lawrence > At 01:19 08/28/2002 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > [[ Bewarned: this is a multinational email... I'm responding to a UK post > from the USA while drinking *too much* Canadian beer... bewarned... ;^> ]] > [snip] > I cannot speak for the UK frequency laws [obviously] but as a US-licensed > Amateur Extra (AB8KK) and an ISP owner who uses *unlicensed* 2.4GHz > frequencies to deliver 11Mbit ethernet for Internet connectivity I can say that > to transmit _on the amateur [read: ham] bands_ you need to have the appropriate > license. However, if there are any non-licensed areas of the spectrum, you > wouldn't need a license to broadcast provided you met the frequency & power > requirements of those unlicensed bands. Lemme tell ya, 11Mbit is more than > enough bandwidth to xmit TV signals, and at least in the US, there are also > unlicensed 5.2GHz bands which provide even more bandwidth... > > And there, friends, is my off-topic post of the day... at least until I get *my* > 2.4GHz Internet link... because the first thing going on that is my VAX... ;-) > > Laterz, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > > P.S. A few years ago, I moaned when Michigan state tax went from 4% to > 6%... altho that's more for the mathematical reasons than monetary... (5% > is much easier on the noggin for a store owner) and I always felt sorry for my > Ontario neighbours with a combined tax of 15%... [ IIRC, which I'm sure I don't: > 8% Ont. Provincial tax & 7% GST...) Now I see even *they* don't have it quite so > bad... :-/ > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Aug 28 17:18:40 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: CoCo Floppies: Was:These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020827172905.026cd7d8@mail.30below.com> References: <3D6B9A7B.31447.31E1321@localhost> Message-ID: <3D6D03F3.19844.8A24A6F@localhost> > Rumor has it that Lawrence Walker may have mentioned these words: > > Do you mean that I could use a 3 1/2" floppy in the 502, with suitable data > >connector of course ? That would be even cooler than a 2nd 5 1/4 !! > > That would enable me to get into "serious" OS9 stuff. Woo-haa !! > > Yes, provided you don't try to interface in a HD drive (1.44Meg formatted) and > expect it to work... in a pinch, it'll work IFF you use 720Meg floppies that > don't have the HD hole punched in them and the floppy honors that switch (some > don't and always assume 1.44 Meg) - the datarate is 2x on the HD floppies > compared to the DD floppies. > I'm fortunate in that I laid in a good stock of "on sale" floppies since my STs and Amigas require them. I also have a bunch of 3 1/2" floppy drives. Other than installing and testing them is there any way of identifying which ones are the lower density ? > FHL had the "eliminator" which gave the CoCo a HD compatible interface; > [obviously] it wasn't RS-DOS compatible and was only useful under OS-9; > otherwise there was a hack for the original WD1771-based 12-Volt eating > controllers that would double the datarate, but this was fairly involved > IIRC; never had one of the oldies, so I can't really say for sure... Who is FHL ? Are they still in existence, and with the "eliminator". The best thing would be a SCSI interface. Did anyone ever make one for the CoCo ? > > I just ran up and checked an old data cable for floppies. It does fit > > the 502. > > I'm surmising that the TEAC (FD-55BV-75-U) was a standard issue floppy > > that R-S used so any 34pin 3 1/2 connector could be used to replace the > > 2nd edge connector on the 502. That would also imply that I could use 2 3 1/2" > > floppies in there if wanted. Or am I simply running away with myself. Would > > the cartridge interface accept 3 1/2" drives ? > > Sure - they're electrically equivalent, and work fine (I had a DSDD 40track > 5.25" drive and 2 DSDD 80track 3.5" floppies hooked up to my CoCo at one point > in time). - just remember to use the correct drivers under OS-9 when you sysgen > a new bootable floppy... > How did you chain the 3rd drive ? Just with a second connector on a cable connected to the 1st or 2nd connector on the 502 ? > [[Sellam doesn't know what kinda fun he's missing, thinking the CoCos are > "crap"...]] BTW, Sellam, if you want a CoCo to mess with that has just > about any kinda video you want, just get a CoCo3. It does TV/RF; Composite & > analog RGB which can be hooked up to the CM-8 from RS, or any Atari ST/Amiga > monitor (with the right cable, mind you) that can sync down to NTSC levels > (which are most all the earlier ones...) > I have a CM-5 that I used on a Tandy 1000 and on something else (cant remember what) which used the special TRS video format (RGBI ?). Never occurred to me, DOH, that I might be able to use it on the CoCo. I also have 2 hi-res and 2 color AtariST monitors, Commodore- 2x 1702, 3x 1802, for most of my 8-bits and a 2002 that 1 use for my Amiga 1K and 2 K. It's been a while since I used my CoCos and I can't remember if I used the CoCo 3 on anything else but a TV. Possibly a 1702 (?) What from the above would be the best choice for a monitor, keeping in mind that it would be a bit of a pain to split out the 13 pin Ataris ( altho I do have the p/o's). The hi- resolution Atari, if it would work, might be interesting with OS9. Tho I have the disks I've never used OS9 but have heard nothing but raves about it's capabilities. I believe the manual is also on-line IIRC. As Sam likely found, it is confusing to switch from platform to platform concurrently. I usually immerse myself in one for some time before working on another. I've been in a laptop mode lately. Grid and others. I'll have to switch to a CoCo mode to explore this further. Too many projects, too little time. Thanks Lawrence > Laterz, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > > > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > zmerch@30below.com > > What do you do when Life gives you lemons, > and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Aug 28 17:19:04 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: CoCo Floppies: Was:These darned old computers In-Reply-To: References: <3D6B9A7B.31447.31E1321@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Aug 27, 2 03:27:55 pm Message-ID: <3D6D03F4.28344.8A24AD8@localhost> I haven't worked on my M.2 for a long time (since I first got it about 3 or 4 yrs. ago, and I'm also missing the cables for the 3 HDs) It was recommended by several people that I transfer the programs I have from 8" to 5 1/4 disks (unless bit-rot has already got to them) and I believe there's a faq on how to do that. Do you know if the disk controller on the model 2 /16 is the same as on the other RS models ? If so possibly I could just transfer them to another format. I'm afraid I have been quite remiss in that there might be some programs that are not currently available, especially on the hard drive. I also have an historic machine, the Micom 2000 that was in production before the Apple. The first one shipped July,1975. Used mainly for wordprocessing with limited graphics ability (NASA apparently had about 100 of them). IIRC without unburying it, it had an 8080 CPU. Charlie Fox an old list-member had a 2001 model. Phillips acquired it in 1978 or 79 and produced it for about 5 or 6 years after. I know it had com. capabilities and the Toronto Phillips distributor sold a program for that but I decided at the time to forgo the $60 it would cost. :^( At present it has a keyboard problem that I haven't been able to solve. It's equivalent of a function key. Undoubtably the 8" disks would copy (discounting bit-rot) and I have seen it mentioned on disk recovery sites but I can't afford thier high prices. It used an early Shugart SS/sd(?) 8" disk. I guess it would require some sort of disk image program for 8 " floppies. I used it for several years, the wordprocessing program was similar to Scripsit and much superior to the then popular W-P or WordStar. Using it's graphic program I produced a sales brochure using an amazingly fast for the time Qume disk-wheel(?) printer (with the biggest separate power supply I have ever seen) for a community newspaper in Toronto I was selling advertising for. Was there any disk image program for the model 2 ? Any volunteers to recover this stuff would be more than welcome. Lawrence Lawrence > > > > Do you mean that I could use a 3 1/2" floppy in the 502, with suitable data > > connector of course ? That would be even cooler than a 2nd 5 1/4 !! > > That would enable me to get into "serious" OS9 stuff. Woo-haa !! > > You can use a 720K 3.5" drive with any of the CoCo controllers (AFAIK). > It will be an 80 cylinder DS unit, which means RS-DOS won't use all of it > by any means, but OS-9 should be OK. > > I have used a 3" drive (40 cylinder DS) as a second drive in one of the > CoCo drive units. No problem at all. > > The same applies to the M3 and M4, BTW. I have run 720K 3.5" drives as > external drives off an M3. Again no problems given a decent OS like LDOS. > > There's noting strange about the interface on Radio Shack floppy drives, > thankfully! > > -tony > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Aug 28 17:37:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: Found Goodies for Sale Message-ID: <00dc01c24ee3$75440550$16000240@oemcomputer> Here's a list of items I found today while being shown some new places to go by a friend. Send me an email stating what you want to pay and I will make a offer to the dealers (I went to 4 places today). TomoScan 60/TX Siemiens Saturn I IBM 3174 11R MicroVax 3800 Xyplex terminal servers Let me know if anyone is interested in these items? From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Aug 28 17:41:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: CoCo Floppies: Was:These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <3D6D03F4.28344.8A24AD8@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > I haven't worked on my M.2 for a long time (since I first got it about 3 or 4 > yrs. ago, and I'm also missing the cables for the 3 HDs) It was > recommended by several people that I transfer the programs I have from 8" to > 5 1/4 disks (unless bit-rot has already got to them) and I believe there's a faq > on how to do that. Do you know if the disk controller on the model 2 /16 is > the same as on the other RS models ? If so possibly I could just transfer > them to another format. The Model 2/16 is MFM, with a 500K data transfer rate. The Model 1 is FM with a 125K data transfer rate The Model 1 with "doubler", and Model 3/4, and Coco, and M100 DVI, are MFM with 250K data transfer rate. All seem to be Western Digital, with reasonably "ordinary" format, except for D.A.M. issues with model 1. What you COULD do is to cable a 5.25" "1.2M" drive to the Model 2/16. When using 600 Oerstedt disks (aka "1.2M"), it doesn't have to know that it is no longer talking to an 8". > Undoubtably the 8" disks would copy (discounting bit-rot) and I have seen it > mentioned on disk recovery sites but I can't afford thier high prices. It used > an early Shugart SS/sd(?) 8" disk. I guess it would require some sort of disk > image program for 8 " floppies. WHAT are you referring to? Reading disks with another machine? Reading the disks with that machine and serial transfer? > Was there any disk image program for the model 2 ? WHAT are you referring to? Software running on Model 2 that could read raw sectors from disks from other machines? Software running on Model 2 that could read files from disks from other machines? Software running on Model 2 that could create a raw file of the sectors of a Model 2 disk? From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Aug 28 17:42:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: Anyone interested in an IBM T730 Tablet computer? References: <3D6BDDC0.D34F566D@gifford.co.uk> <006801c24e07$adcdabb0$0b00a8c0@cvendel> <007001c24e08$f7e43bf0$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <012701c24ee4$229cda10$16000240@oemcomputer> Has this been claimed yet? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curt Vendel" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 3:33 PM Subject: Anyone interested in an IBM T730 Tablet computer? > I have one with extra batteries, cards, cables, printer and carrying case. > Anyone interested please send me an email. > > > > Curt > > > From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Aug 28 17:53:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: OpenVMS/Alpha Games? Message-ID: >I'm trying to get a selection of games that will work on a Serial Terminal >up and running on my OpenVMS server (a PWS 433au running OpenVMS 7.2-1H1). >I'm finding that most games that are available for VMS date back to VAX/VMS >V3 or earlier. Does anyone know of any besides the following that will >work? Look at the Freeware CD stuff: http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware50/FREEWARE/00FREEWARE_ABSTRACT.TXT as there are a few there. The V4 Freeware disks had a few more: http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware40/FREEWARE/00FREEWARE_ABSTRACT.TXT Obviously many of the later games required X11 but there are some in there that I believe to be text based. There used to be a reasonable collection of games on the various DECUS tapes. I recall the L&T/VMS tape sets having a fair smattering of bits and pieces. I also don't see LARN in your list. I know it was available on OpenVMS (I used to have it, I don't know where it would be now ...) There is also the stuff Patrick Moreau maintains: http://membres.lycos.fr/pmoreau/decw/index.html (a little French helps, and much of this is now on the Freeware CDs I think). Antonio From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Aug 28 17:57:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: Goodies from today's trip to new places Message-ID: <012f01c24ee6$2f0c1200$16000240@oemcomputer> Well it was a great day being given a tour by a local guy who knows some of the better places to go for all types of computer stuff. I walked away with the following items and have a bid in on some others. 1. Data General terminal model 6255 (no keyboard with it), 2. Data General Aviion model G70624D, 3. SGI IRIS Indigo xs24, 4. PowerPC 7200/90, 5. Apple MultiScan 20 display, 6. Mac Performa 630CD. Below are the items I got a auction yesterday. NCR monitor model 0271-6090 $0 2-Apple ext. 51/4 FDD $0 IBM 5151 monitor $0 Compaq Amber monitor model Compaq DeskPro $0 IBM PS/1 computer only $0 Tandy ext 51/4 FDD model 25-1060B $0 Sega Master System powerbase $0 Atari video pinball console only model C-380 $5 PowerComputing PowerBase 200 tower $20 From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Aug 28 18:02:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: WTB: box of 8" cleaning disks Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020828190445.3bb7cad0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> A friend of mine is looking for a box of cleaning disks for 8" floppy drive for one of their customers and they're willing to PAY for one. If anyone has one for sale let me know. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Aug 28 18:02:25 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: Does anyone have a Brikon model 723 Flexible Disk Drive Tester/Analyzer? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020828190232.0edf1a78@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Found a manual for one today. The tester was nowhere in sight. Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 28 18:13:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: CoCo Floppies: Was:These darned old computers In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Aug 27, 2 01:34:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 292 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020828/439eebeb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 28 18:13:45 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: Way OT: Crazy Brits! ;-) & Amateur TV (was: These darned old In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020828002715.00b1dae8@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Aug 28, 2 00:53:45 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2903 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020828/07865e27/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 28 18:14:25 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Aug 27, 2 01:38:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1255 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020828/d786104b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 28 18:14:55 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <3D6C2A4B.5EBDE645@topnow.com> from "Ross Archer" at Aug 27, 2 06:41:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 325 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020828/73c3e1bc/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 28 18:15:26 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: Need PC-AT "keyboard BIOS" docs In-Reply-To: <20020828173446.50095.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Aug 28, 2 10:34:46 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3272 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020828/d0361175/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 28 18:16:05 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Aug 28, 2 01:08:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1090 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020828/a1f57372/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Aug 28 18:17:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: WTB: box of 8" cleaning disks In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020828190445.3bb7cad0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Joe wrote: > A friend of mine is looking for a box of cleaning disks for 8" floppy drive for one of their customers and they're willing to PAY for one. If anyone has one for sale let me know. Cleaning DISKS?!? For 8"? Yeah, they probably did once EXIST, but why? Cleaning disks were handy for tiny hard to get at drives. But 8" drives are wide open. Q-Tip and everclear. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 28 18:17:25 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: Amiga GPIB/IEEE-488 card? In-Reply-To: <3D6CFA30.BC962815@ccp.com> from "Gary Hildebrand" at Aug 28, 2 11:28:32 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 396 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020828/4ac12fec/attachment.ksh From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Aug 28 18:21:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 date change means more time to prepare an exhibit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3D6D1433.27495.8DC7227@localhost> Sellam, What are the new dates ? In looking thru the list msgs. I couldn't find a new date notice, nor on the exhibitor page. Not that I'll be able to attend, :^( unless it's in November when I reach this years wintering location in Vancouver, BC. Lawrence BTW I will get off the Magic-Sac program once I solve my present ST problems so I can copy it. > > Now that the VCF dates have changed, it gives you procrastinators another > month to prepare an exhibit. We could certainly use more exhibits this > year so if you are considering it, visit the exhibitor information page: > > http://www.vintage.org/2002/main/exhibit.php > > For those of you who had other plans for the old dates, the new dates > represent an opportunity to come, so mark your calendar! > > And if you want to sell anything at the VCF, either as a vendor or on > consignment, there is still plenty of space available: > > http://www.vintage.org/2002/main/vendor.php > > See you there! > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Aug 28 18:22:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: Goodies from today's trip to new places In-Reply-To: <012f01c24ee6$2f0c1200$16000240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020828190652.0edf2a8c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:56 PM 8/28/02 -0500, you wrote: >Well it was a great day being given a tour by a local guy who knows some of >the better places to go for all types of computer stuff. I walked away with >the following items and have a bid in on some others. > >1. Data General terminal model 6255 (no keyboard with it), >2. Data General Aviion model G70624D, >3. SGI IRIS Indigo xs24, Nice catch! What CPU does it have? I just picked up one with 4Gb SCSI, floppy drive, 96Mb RAM, XS-24 video, and a 150MHz R4400 :-) Joe From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Aug 28 18:23:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: CoCo Floppies: Was:These darned old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > No, that was the Commodore 64 until it proves otherwise. The CoCo2 is > > still up in the air, though I am leaning towards "crap" because of the > > limited video output capability ;) > > Presumably by this criterion the Cray is totally 'crap' because it has no > video output at all? No, it's crap before that, because it won't run Windows 95. Doc From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Aug 28 18:23:25 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: OpenVMS/Alpha Games? References: <200208282205.g7SM5Iu03164@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <022301c24ee9$da180930$0300a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 7:35 AM Subject: OpenVMS/Alpha Games? > I'm trying to get a selection of games that will work on a Serial Terminal > up and running on my OpenVMS server (a PWS 433au running OpenVMS 7.2-1H1). I have a Space Invaders clone game (can't think of the name) that runs on VMS and plays on a VTxxx terminal (Not X based). I'll dig it out. > I'm finding that most games that are available for VMS date back to VAX/VMS > V3 or earlier. Does anyone know of any besides the following that will > work? > > Advent 4.0A - Native > Dungeon 3.2B - Native > Empire 4.0 - Native > NetHack 3.3.1 - Native > Moria 4.5 - Vested > Rogue 3.0 - Vested (doesn't seem to display right) > King - Native > Spacwr - Native (very old Star Trek game) > Spacemine - Native (Ported from an old book of Basic Games I've had > for about 20 Years) > Angband 2.8.0 - Native (but requires DECwindows) > I'm really looking for copies of the following that will work on an Alpha > running OpenVMS: I'd be interested in copies of anything for native VMS/Vax (currently 6.x) > Angband (that will work on a serial terminal) > Rogue (a version that works right) > zcode emulator > Decent Star Trek game > DND > Moria 4.8 or 5.0 > Newer version of Empire > Conquest > > I'm also interested in any other good ones that I might not know about. Ditto. Geoff in Oz. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Aug 28 18:29:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: OpenVMS/Alpha Games? Message-ID: >I'm really looking for copies of the following that will work on an Alpha >running OpenVMS: > Decent Star Trek game I went looking through the DECUS stuff. On VAX84C there is ST84 which is billed as the ultimate Star Trek game. Leafing through a catalogue, there's: WORLD on V00036 DODGEM on V00039 MTREK on V00087 TREK.BAS on V00282 VAXstation games on V00322 (obviously unlikely to be text based ...) UNO on V00401 HACK on V00526 An Othello game on VS0175 DROIDS on VAX91B Some of these should be available directly from the decus (now encompass) web site. I expect I have *some* of them on tape in the attic (time to move from 9-track, TK50/70 and DAT to CDROM I guess ...) Antonio From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Aug 28 18:30:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: Need PC-AT "keyboard BIOS" docs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > The idea is this - a PS/2-keyboard to RS-232 converter - plug in > > any AT- style keyboard, hook the other end into the receive pin of the > > target's console port. I started from a) a microprocessor-based The cheapest way to build that, if you don't mind the extra bulk, ... Take one generic AT, plus keyboard, plus serial port. Write code in a polled loop, or interrupt driven, to get keystrokes and send them out the serial port. (there is some software already available that includes that capability (such as PC-Talk) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Aug 28 18:32:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: WTB: box of 8" cleaning disks In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20020828190445.3bb7cad0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020828193454.3baf44b6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:17 PM 8/28/02 -0700, Fred wrote: >On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Joe wrote: >> A friend of mine is looking for a box of cleaning disks for 8" floppy drive for one of their customers and they're willing to PAY for one. If anyone has one for sale let me know. > >Cleaning DISKS?!? >For 8"? > >Yeah, they probably did once EXIST, They did exist. I used to have a box. but why? >Cleaning disks were handy for tiny hard to get at drives. But 8" drives >are wide open. Not all of them. (I'm speaking from experience!) > > >Q-Tip and everclear. That's what I suggested but they WANT cleaning disks! This is for a company (probably with the typical LUSER) and not for a knowledgable hobbyist. Joe > > > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Aug 28 18:44:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: WTB: box of 8" cleaning disks Message-ID: <200208282342.QAA20900@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > >On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Joe wrote: >> A friend of mine is looking for a box of cleaning disks for 8" floppy drive for one of their customers and they're willing to PAY for one. If anyone has one for sale let me know. > >Cleaning DISKS?!? >For 8"? > >Yeah, they probably did once EXIST, but why? >Cleaning disks were handy for tiny hard to get at drives. But 8" drives >are wide open. > > >Q-Tip and everclear. > > > Hi As Fred says, it is much better to clean these properly. Cleaning disk are just a patch for hard to reach drives and shouldn't be use when you can get to the heads. It is something like pouring STP in an engine to fix leaky valve seals. It doesn't really fix it but it seems to go away for a while. Dwight From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Aug 28 18:50:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: Fw: Found Goodies for Sale Message-ID: <016d01c24eed$9a6f3430$16000240@oemcomputer> Sorry for double post. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John" To: "cctalk" Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 5:35 PM Subject: Found Goodies for Sale > Here's a list of items I found today while being shown some new places to go > by a friend. Send me an email stating what you want to pay and I will make a > offer to the dealers (I went to 4 places today). > TomoScan 60/TX > Siemiens Saturn I > IBM 3174 11R > MicroVax 3800 > Xyplex terminal servers > Let me know if anyone is interested in these items? > From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 28 18:53:00 2002 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: CoCo Floppies: Was:These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <3D6D03F3.19844.8A24A6F@localhost> Message-ID: <1fhmxe0.g1uqu61chwos8M%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> > Who is FHL ? Are they still in existence, and with the "eliminator". The best > thing would be a SCSI interface. Did anyone ever make one for the CoCo ? Frank Hoggs Labratory. Maker of fine hardware for your CoCo. No longer a going concern. There were three different SCSI implementation for the CoCo. Kentyon, Disto (the 4-in-1 board) and Cloud-9 (the TC^3 board). You can still buy a Cloud-9 interface today: http://www.cloud9tech.com/Hardware/index.html -- Q: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. A: Why is top posting frowned upon? -------------------------------------------------------- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com From donm at cts.com Wed Aug 28 18:59:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: WTB: box of 8" cleaning disks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Joe wrote: > > A friend of mine is looking for a box of cleaning disks for 8" floppy drive for one of their customers and they're willing to PAY for one. If anyone has one for sale let me know. > > Cleaning DISKS?!? > For 8"? > > Yeah, they probably did once EXIST, but why? > Cleaning disks were handy for tiny hard to get at drives. But 8" drives > are wide open. > > > Q-Tip and everclear. Even that can be a tad difficult on some of the half-highs, e.g. Mitsubishi, etc. No argument on full-highs. - don From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 28 19:05:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: CoCo Floppies: Was:These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <3D6D03F3.19844.8A24A6F@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Aug 28, 2 05:10:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1495 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020828/468e45a1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 28 19:05:31 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: CoCo Floppies: Was:These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <3D6D03F4.28344.8A24AD8@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Aug 28, 2 05:10:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1375 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020828/4a90f419/attachment.ksh From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Aug 28 19:06:01 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: CoCo Floppies: Was:These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <3D6D03F3.19844.8A24A6F@localhost> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020827172905.026cd7d8@mail.30below.com> <3D6B9A7B.31447.31E1321@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020828191738.0273f3d8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Lawrence Walker may have mentioned these words: > I'm fortunate in that I laid in a good stock of "on sale" floppies since > my STs and Amigas require them. I also have a bunch of 3 1/2" floppy > drives. Other than installing and testing them is there any way of > identifying which ones are the lower density ? Sure, if you look just inside the dust flap on a 3.5" drive, and you see a switch {or optical sensor) on the right hand side, it's a 1.44Meg - that's the 1.44Meg sense switch to see if it has a HD disk in it. If the switching mechanism is missing entirely, it's *probably* a 720K (but no absolute guarantees). Another way is take the model number & google it -- I heard somewhere that the Internet can be good for finding info like that... ;-) > Who is FHL ? Frank Hogg Laboratories... >Are they still in existence, and with the "eliminator". The best >thing would be a SCSI interface. Did anyone ever make one for the CoCo ? FHL went the way of the dodo bird long, long ago... the eliminators are rather rare... anyone have an extra they'd like to get rid of??? ;-) However, Mark [pause -- googling] Marlette of Cloud 9 Technologies was making another batch of his SCSI board that used full-parity (some earlier SCSI cards didn't have that ability, so you couldn't use certain devices like Zip drives...) Ta'int cheap... USD $85 w/o RTC, $100 w/RTC [for the $15, get the RTC is my feeling, anyway...] but they're new, and they're nice... http://www.cloud9tech.com/Hardware/index.html for a list of all his hardware that he has available... I'm tellin' ya... this Internet thing might actually catch on someday... ;-) > How did you chain the 3rd drive ? Just with a second connector on a > cable connected to the 1st or 2nd connector on the 502 ? Just punched a new connector onto the existing cable... prolly not the *right* way to do it, but as I always say: if it's stupid, but works, it ain't stupid! > I have a CM-5 that I used on a Tandy 1000 and on something else (cant > remember what) which used the special TRS video format (RGBI ?). Never > occurred to me, DOH, that I might be able to use it on the CoCo. It shouldn't have occurred to you -- because you *can't* use it!!! RGBI is not a special TRS format -- it's CGA/EGA. It's a digital mode which stands for Red/Green/Blue/Intensity, and uses 5V digital levels. The CM-5 is also known to be computing history's abso-frelling-lutely crappiest monitor in the universe. It had a .52mm dot pitch - hell, the lead in my mechanical pencils is smaller! The CM-8 was better, but not outstanding with a .42mm DP. You're better bets were the Magnavox 3CM515 (IIRC?) or hacking a cable for the Atari/Amiga monitors... A few of the NEC 2[mumble] VGA monitors with .28 DP would sync that low, too; they make gorgeous displays, but were super-expensive way back when... [snip] > As Sam likely found, it is confusing to switch from platform to platform >concurrently. I usually immerse myself in one for some time before >working on another. I've been in a laptop mode lately. Grid and others. >I'll have to switch to a CoCo mode to explore this further. > Too many projects, too little time. A good project would be a video switchbox that would take an Atari SCM1224 and give you 3 or 4 inputs for it to switch between, adapted between the CoCo3/Atari/Amiga/others... I have a $10,000 sewer problem to repair first, tho... :-(( Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From archer at topnow.com Wed Aug 28 19:07:01 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: Way OT: Crazy Brits! ;-) & Amateur TV (was: These darned old References: Message-ID: <3D6D6589.7E546ECC@topnow.com> Tony Duell wrote: > > > Weirder & weirder... You mean that if any Brits wish to receive only B&W > > broadcasts [and have the hardware to prove it], the tax levy is different > > than color??? After almost 40 years of color TV technology, they still > > YEs, it's _a lot_ less (about 1/3rd of the colour license IIRC). So if you watch your TV on an RGB monitor and promise to disconnect the Green, do you get a 1/3 discount? :) -- Ross From rschaefe at gcfn.org Wed Aug 28 19:30:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse' Message-ID: <013c01c24ef3$6cbadc00$70469280@y5f3q8> Found a IIc+ the other day at the thrift store, someone screwed up, it was only marked $7something. Had a mouse attached to it, and it wasn't until I got it home that I noticed it was an optical mouse. Mfgr'd by Mouse Systems (or rather, `in Singapore for Mouse Systems'), the model number is 403009-001, and printed underneath it is `MSC 403009-1' and `S/N:EK 030724'. It seems that the IIc+ will take the older DE9 style Mac mice, so this might be for one of those. Does this little guy need a fancy pad? Also, any pointers to IIc+ specific sites? I'm googling, but I'd appreciate any hints. Bob From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Aug 28 19:36:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: Way OT: Crazy Brits! ;-) & Amateur TV (was: These darned old References: <3D6D6589.7E546ECC@topnow.com> Message-ID: <3D6D6B9C.3040201@jetnet.ab.ca> Ross Archer wrote: > Tony Duell wrote: > >>>Weirder & weirder... You mean that if any Brits wish to receive only B&W >>>broadcasts [and have the hardware to prove it], the tax levy is different >>>than color??? After almost 40 years of color TV technology, they still >> >>YEs, it's _a lot_ less (about 1/3rd of the colour license IIRC). > > > So if you watch your TV on an RGB monitor and promise to > disconnect the Green, do you get a 1/3 discount? :) > > -- Ross > > no ... you disconnect the red and blue. Green is left for the 3 inch scope tube you are using. :) From ipscone at msdsite.com Wed Aug 28 19:49:01 2002 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: S-100 Board Info Needed In-Reply-To: <012f01c24ee6$2f0c1200$16000240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3D6D0B8C.20621.33CC32@localhost> Ok, I have a couple of boards that I need some info on. I have a Processor Tech. 16KRA (16K RAM) board. There are three components missing on the board. U40 14 pin DIP U42 16 pin DIP U58 16 pin DIP Anyone know what they are? There are also 2 8-pin dip switches that control addressing and who knows what else. Anyone have the switch description? There is also an analog area in the lower left that has a transistor or two and a data delay module???? The other board is an EconoRAM X. It has 5257N RAMs but I can't find anything on the RAM. Are these 4Kx1? Mike From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 28 19:51:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: CoCo Floppies: Was:These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020828191738.0273f3d8@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Aug 28, 2 08:10:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1772 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020828/909ef20a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 28 19:55:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: Way OT: Crazy Brits! ;-) & Amateur TV (was: These darned old In-Reply-To: <3D6D6B9C.3040201@jetnet.ab.ca> from "Ben Franchuk" at Aug 28, 2 06:32:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 987 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020828/8471653b/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Aug 28 20:04:00 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: S-100 Board Info Needed In-Reply-To: <3D6D0B8C.20621.33CC32@localhost> References: <3D6D0B8C.20621.33CC32@localhost> Message-ID: >I have a Processor Tech. 16KRA (16K RAM) board. There are three >components missing on the board. > >U40 14 pin DIP 74LS136 >U42 16 pin DIP 74LS157 >U58 16 pin DIP 74LS157 >Anyone know what they are? There are also 2 8-pin dip switches that >control addressing and who knows what else. Anyone have the switch >description? Is this in the upper left corner of the board? If so it controls the page and address line assignments for the address selection switches. All of this info came out of the '16KRA Users Manual', forth printing, April 1978. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From swtpc6800 at attbi.com Wed Aug 28 20:08:00 2002 From: swtpc6800 at attbi.com (Michael Holley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: Need PC-AT "keyboard BIOS" docs References: <20020828232324.79074.16816.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000e01c24ef8$7b321190$9865fea9@downstairs> I have been looking into this also. Here is a good link on AT Keyboards http://www.beyondlogic.org/keyboard/keybrd.htm Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley ----- Original Message ----- Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 10:34:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Ethan Dicks Subject: Need PC-AT "keyboard BIOS" docs To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org I had this idea for a keyboard adapter for classic machines, but I don't understand the 40-pin "keyboard BIOS" microcontroller well enough to know if it's possible... So... is there a good place (on the web) to learn about the "keyboard BIOS" chip? Alternatively, is there already a project like this that I can clone? If anyone has any examples of how to attach a PeeCee keyboard to a 68000 or 6502 directly, without going through a UART, I guess I'd be interested in that, too; but since I was already planning on sticking a Z8530 or 6551 or 16550 chip on the OMNIBUS board anyway, I might as well use the same serial port for all embedded console I/O. Thanks for any pointers, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Aug 28 20:17:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: Goodies from today's trip to new places References: <3.0.6.16.20020828190652.0edf2a8c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <01f601c24ef9$bb1edb20$16000240@oemcomputer> Not sure yet as I have not tried to test it. It was only $10 because it is missing all the drives in the bay but the CPU and Graphics card are both populated to the max with memory. Will give an update when I have more info. Yours sounds like a great deal.:-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 7:06 PM Subject: Re: Goodies from today's trip to new places > At 05:56 PM 8/28/02 -0500, you wrote: > >Well it was a great day being given a tour by a local guy who knows some of > >the better places to go for all types of computer stuff. I walked away with > >the following items and have a bid in on some others. > > > >1. Data General terminal model 6255 (no keyboard with it), > >2. Data General Aviion model G70624D, > >3. SGI IRIS Indigo xs24, > > Nice catch! What CPU does it have? I just picked up one with 4Gb SCSI, floppy drive, 96Mb RAM, XS-24 video, and a 150MHz R4400 :-) > > Joe > > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Aug 28 20:23:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: CoCo Floppies: Was:These darned old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Sure, if you look just inside the dust flap on a 3.5" drive, and you see a > > switch {or optical sensor) on the right hand side, it's a 1.44Meg - that's > > the 1.44Meg sense switch to see if it has a HD disk in it. If the switching On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > Be very careful. Some early 3.5" drives (including the 600 rpm > full-height Sony units) put the disk-detect sensor on the right. Well, it > was a logical place to put it, out of the way of the write-protect > sensor, before there were 1.44M disks. So a sensor on the right need not > imply a 1.44M drive. And some of the early 1.4M drives that IBM used had no 1.4M/730K sensor! It would try both densities in read attempts, and you could specify in software to write the lower density (for example: FORMAT A: /T:80/N:9 ), but if you put in a 720K diskette and tried to format, the drive would have no way to know that it was not a 1.4M. > Incidentally, such drives often won't work _at all_ with 1.44M disks. The > HD hole lines up with the disk-detect sensor so the drive thinks there's > no disk inserted. At least that way, it never misinterpreted a disk as the WRONG type. From ipscone at msdsite.com Wed Aug 28 20:31:00 2002 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: S-100 Board Info Needed In-Reply-To: References: <3D6D0B8C.20621.33CC32@localhost> Message-ID: <3D6D1558.25674.5A1287@localhost> Thanks Jeff, Yes, these are the switches in the upper left. But knowing that they are address selection switches does not help much. I presumed they were. But there appear to be 4 banks of 4K RAM. That should only require about 4 switches for selection. There are 16 switches however. So, if you have the manual, can you say what the specific switch assignements are? Also, what is the analog circuitry in the lower right, with the delay module? Thanks, > >I have a Processor Tech. 16KRA (16K RAM) board. There are three > >components missing on the board. > > > >U40 14 pin DIP > > 74LS136 > > >U42 16 pin DIP > > 74LS157 > > >U58 16 pin DIP > > 74LS157 > > >Anyone know what they are? There are also 2 8-pin dip switches that > >control addressing and who knows what else. Anyone have the switch > >description? > > Is this in the upper left corner of the board? If so it > controls the page and address line assignments for the address > selection switches. > > All of this info came out of the '16KRA Users Manual', forth > printing, April 1978. > > Jeff > -- > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.cchaven.com > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From curt at atari-history.com Wed Aug 28 20:32:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: VMS TCP/IP? References: Message-ID: <004e01c24efb$a67c0a60$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Besides Multinet and TCPware, are there any freeware TCP services for VMS 6.1 and higher??? Anyone have any experience with the Purveyor webserver for VMS? Curt From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Aug 28 20:46:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:55 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'll want a vendor space. Is the floor plan available yet? I don't remember how many of the ultrasonic X10 units I have. They look a lot like the later consoles, except for a partially hidden grille. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > > I had one of the Zenith with the tuning fork remotes. It was a 19" > > > > I have some X10 controllers that have ultrasonic remotes. Later on they > > switched to IR. > > My old alarm clock sitting next to the X10 controller used to do funny > > things to the lights. > > > > Is there desire for such? (should I bring to VCF) > > If you do, I'll buy it (if nobody else does first ;) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 NOTE: My ISP is having difficulties. If you have problems reaching me at this e-mail address, you can leave a message at: fcisin@merritt.edu From dittman at dittman.net Wed Aug 28 20:47:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:56 2005 Subject: VMS TCP/IP? In-Reply-To: from "Curt Vendel" at Aug 28, 2002 09:30:25 PM Message-ID: <200208290143.g7T1hRr23476@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Besides Multinet and TCPware, are there any freeware TCP services for VMS > 6.1 and higher??? Anyone have any experience with the Purveyor webserver > for VMS? There's always Digital/Compaq/HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Aug 28 20:49:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:56 2005 Subject: OpenVMS/Alpha Games? In-Reply-To: from "Antonio Carlini" at Aug 29, 2002 12:29:14 AM Message-ID: <200208290149.g7T1nY715669@shell1.aracnet.com> > I went looking through the DECUS stuff. On VAX84C there is ST84 which is > billed as the ultimate Star Trek game. OK, it took some looking through the archive, but knowing it was on the tape helped (I really wish there was an index for this site). ftp://mvb.saic.com/disk%24misc/decus/VAX84C/CONSAD/ST84/ It mostly builds under OpenVMS 7.2-1H1/Alpha using Compaq Fortran V7.4-1341-46ACJ and the /OLD_F77 flag. Unfortunatly it looks to be missing at least a few of the files needed to build it (TREK84.FOR, TREK84.FDL, and the VARDICT.* files at a minimum). Based on the doc's this looks like a very interesting version! Unfortunatly it doesn't seem to be online anywhere else. > Leafing through a catalogue, there's: > > WORLD on V00036 > DODGEM on V00039 > MTREK on V00087 V00037 Coded in RATFIV? > TREK.BAS on V00282 Seems to work, and looks interesting > VAXstation games on V00322 (obviously unlikely to be text based ...) > UNO on V00401 > HACK on V00526 > An Othello game on VS0175 > DROIDS on VAX91B > > Some of these should be available directly from the decus (now encompass) ftp://ftp.decus.org/lib/ Zane From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Aug 28 20:50:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:56 2005 Subject: [OT] UK TV Licenses (was Re: These darned old computers) In-Reply-To: <3D6D00B6.6030701@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3D6D36F4.10401.9643A1C@localhost> Actually it came from Canada your neighbor on the north where the Bush administration is doing everything in it's power to wipe out our economy and social programs like health-care for his corporate sponsors, not to mention the opposition to the KYOTO Accords as our lakes and country are being wiped out by acid rain and pollution drifting north from a corporate friendly administration denying there's a problem. Jack Vallenti the Hollywood lobbyist has virtually wiped out our independent film culture, and our media was forced to accept US publications like Time on par with Canadian ones back in the Kennedy era. Yes, and many Canadians have little critical perceptions and watch the same TV programs you do. The US cultural behemoth is like the Borg. You WILL be assimilated Due to NAFTA our manufacturing industry is a fading memory, and even our resource industries like lumber are under attack by powerful US industries, ignoring the provisions of NAFTA. Under NAFTA we are sued if we prohibit certain chemicals in US products known to be dangerous to public health. Inflated US subsidies to agriculture are decimating our farmers, and on and on. Fortunately we aren't an enemy cause our government more or less toes the US corporate line. I guess it could be worse. Thank Gods for corporate- sponsored democracy. Self-defense ? Oh c'mon. That's laughable coming from the most powerful country in the world. At present in most countries the US is simply a bully using it's economic and military strength much as Britian did in the 19th century. Is it just an accident that Americans are despised the world over ? Just envy ? Both my parents were born in the US, I lived for a couple of years in the Boston area, my former wife is a US citizen and I could have likely claimed dual-citizenship. I have many US friends, my argument isn't with them, it's with brain-dead US firsters. As far as social programs for those not fortunate enough to have a big paycheck, the small farmers, the migrant workers who put produce on your table, the homeless, the hi-crime impoverished ghettoes, try comparing them to every major industrialized nation. Try approaching it without flag-waving, read Michael Harrington. Studs Terkel, and many, many US authors that love the US but not it's business-oriented government (maybe read one that isn't US Amerrican), especially both the last two administrations. Watch less indoctrinating spindoctor releases on mainstream TV. Ask why the US was the last country to accept commonly available social programs in all the major industrialized nations. I avoided the Phrase "brainwashed by monetary interests". My apologies to the list. This is no place for this sort of rant but the gross assumptions of some US list members is too often ignored and repeated. I'll not respond to further provocations on this thread. Lawrence > Backwards? > > What little things like the right of self-defense? > > This is laughable, comming from the UK! > > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > >On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > >> But then again the UK, like most of the industrialized countries in the > >>world has health-care. In social benefits the US is pretty backward. > >> > > > >In *many* respects the US is pretty backward. > > > >But that would take this WAY off-topic... > > > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > > > > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Aug 28 20:50:25 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:56 2005 Subject: CoCo Floppies: Was:These darned old computers In-Reply-To: References: <3D6D03F4.28344.8A24AD8@localhost> Message-ID: <3D6D36F4.10710.9643B16@localhost> > On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > I haven't worked on my M.2 for a long time (since I first got it about 3 or 4 > > > > yrs. ago, and I'm also missing the cables for the 3 HDs) It was > > recommended by several people that I transfer the programs I have from 8" to 5 > > 1/4 disks (unless bit-rot has already got to them) and I believe there's a faq > > on how to do that. Do you know if the disk controller on the model 2 /16 is > > the same as on the other RS models ? If so possibly I could just transfer them > > to another format. > > The Model 2/16 is MFM, with a 500K data transfer rate. > The Model 1 is FM with a 125K data transfer rate > The Model 1 with "doubler", and Model 3/4, and Coco, and M100 DVI, are MFM > with 250K data transfer rate. > > All seem to be Western Digital, with reasonably "ordinary" format, except > for D.A.M. issues with model 1. > > What you COULD do is to cable a 5.25" "1.2M" drive to the Model > 2/16. When using 600 Oerstedt disks (aka "1.2M"), it doesn't have to know > that it is no longer talking to an 8". > > > > Undoubtably the 8" disks would copy (discounting bit-rot) and I have seen it > > mentioned on disk recovery sites but I can't afford thier high prices. It used > > an early Shugart SS/sd(?) 8" disk. I guess it would require some sort of disk > > image program for 8 " floppies. > > WHAT are you referring to? > Reading disks with another machine? Yes > Reading the disks with that machine and serial transfer? No, I don't have a serial communication program for it nor any of the hardware. > > > Was there any disk image program for the model 2 ? > > WHAT are you referring to? > Software running on Model 2 that could read raw sectors from disks > from other machines? Yes or any other machine that could do a raw image. I referred to the M.2 only because it is my only working box that uses 8" disks. I do have an H-77 and an external TRS 8" drive(couldn't dig it out to check the model #) and of course the original Shugart drive (also buried). The idea being to use one of the 8" drives on another machine or the M2 to make copies on a drive with a newer format. > Software running on Model 2 that could read files from disks from > other machines? Ok, but likely not possible. > Software running on Model 2 that could create a raw file of the sectors of > a Model 2 disk? > If that was the only way of transferring the m.2 disks to a newer format ok, but that wouldn't answer my problems with transferring the MICOM disks to another format for preservation. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Aug 28 20:50:51 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:56 2005 Subject: Paging Tothwolf, Gene Ehrich and John Foust In-Reply-To: <11c.16275d4b.2a9e6a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <3D6D36F4.20430.96439C7@localhost> Doesn't the IBM site still have them ? I might have some as I have a 2011, a 2021, and a 2033. All working altho I got rid of the 2033 stub early on. Does one really need Prodigy in the Quad startup screen ? Lawrence > In a message dated 8/28/2002 12:51:09 PM Central Daylight Time, > r_beaudry@hotmail.com writes: > > << Sorry to use the list for this, but I lost some older emails, and no > longer > have the email adresses for you... > > Gene/Toth, > > Remember those PS/1 diskettes I told you would be coming 4 months ago?? >> > > What model PS/1 do they belong to? I would love to get a copy from the > recipients. I have several models, and I regularly get requests from people who > see mine wanting to restore the preload. lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Aug 28 21:00:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:56 2005 Subject: VMS TCP/IP? In-Reply-To: from "Curt Vendel" at Aug 28, 2002 09:30:25 PM Message-ID: <200208290159.g7T1xsp15968@shell1.aracnet.com> > Besides Multinet and TCPware, are there any freeware TCP services for VMS > 6.1 and higher??? Anyone have any experience with the Purveyor webserver > for VMS? > > Curt Last I checked Multinet and TCPware weren't freeware, however, they are available via the Hobbyist program. Also available via the Hobbyist Program is Compaq TCPIP/DEC UCX. If you really want freeware, there is CMU TCP/IP, it's only for the VAX. If you want to run with something as old as 6.1 your best bet is likely to either be Multinet or TCPWare. As for Purveyor, I tried it out shortly after Process Software made it available. It seems pretty nice, but it's unsupported, as a result I'm running WASD on my VMS server. Zane From mbg at TheWorld.com Wed Aug 28 21:07:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:56 2005 Subject: OpenVMS/Alpha Games? Message-ID: <200208290207.WAA118288926@shell.TheWorld.com> >I'm really looking for copies of the following that will work on an Alpha >running OpenVMS: > DND I may have information about this... depends on which game you are thinking about... can you describe it? Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Aug 28 21:56:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:56 2005 Subject: OpenVMS/Alpha Games? In-Reply-To: from "Megan" at Aug 28, 2002 10:07:27 PM Message-ID: <200208290256.g7T2ulp17977@shell1.aracnet.com> > >I'm really looking for copies of the following that will work on an Alpha > >running OpenVMS: > > DND > > I may have information about this... depends on which game you are > thinking about... can you describe it? > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 28 21:59:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse' In-Reply-To: <013c01c24ef3$6cbadc00$70469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: <20020829025853.23750.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Robert Schaefer wrote: > Found a IIc+ the other day at the thrift store, someone screwed up, it > was only marked $7something. Nice. > Had a mouse attached to it, and it wasn't until I > got it home that I noticed it was an optical mouse. Mfgr'd by Mouse > Systems... It seems that the IIc+ will take the older DE9 style Mac > mice, so this might be for one of those. Didn't know they made them like that. AFAIK, it's possible to swab pins around and use that with an Amiga, too. I *know* you can make a pin swabber for an MS Bus Mouse. > Does this little guy need a fancy pad? I would expect so. They are much rarer than the mice. > Also, any pointers to IIc+ specific > sites? I'm googling, but I'd appreciate any hints. I'd love to hear about them, too. I got my //c+ for $15 at a hamfest, monitor and Imagewriter and external 5.25" drive included. Nice score, Bob. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From curt at atari-history.com Wed Aug 28 22:01:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: VMS TCP/IP? References: <200208290159.g7T1xsp15968@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <005301c24f08$24b1a5f0$0b00a8c0@cvendel> WASD??? I'll look into it. What kills me is I used to have a few CD's with Multinet on them and as the years went by they disappeared, I have all of the books for Digital TCP Services but can't find the CD for that either, damned shame. The Hobbyist thing, its what $90 to join and get the cd's and such or something like that, right? Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 9:59 PM Subject: Re: VMS TCP/IP? > > Besides Multinet and TCPware, are there any freeware TCP services for VMS > > 6.1 and higher??? Anyone have any experience with the Purveyor webserver > > for VMS? > > > > Curt > > Last I checked Multinet and TCPware weren't freeware, however, they are > available via the Hobbyist program. Also available via the Hobbyist Program > is Compaq TCPIP/DEC UCX. If you really want freeware, there is CMU TCP/IP, > it's only for the VAX. If you want to run with something as old as 6.1 your > best bet is likely to either be Multinet or TCPWare. > > As for Purveyor, I tried it out shortly after Process Software made it > available. It seems pretty nice, but it's unsupported, as a result I'm > running WASD on my VMS server. > > > Zane From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Aug 28 22:06:00 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: VMS TCP/IP? References: <004e01c24efb$a67c0a60$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <006101c24f09$1419a480$de2c67cb@helpdesk> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curt Vendel" To: Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 11:00 AM Subject: VMS TCP/IP? > Besides Multinet and TCPware, are there any freeware TCP services for VMS > 6.1 and higher??? There is CMU/IP, freeware IP stack originally developed at Carnegie-Mellon Uni. Not sure what version it was in the end, 6.something I think, most things work ok with it, though it's a little slow. Rather buggy too, though perhaps less so than the versions of UCX that were around at the time it was written. Haven't seen anything on it for a while, I think the support mailing list is dead these days. I think there are still versions of it out there in use and a search of the web will find it for you somewhere. Open source so those with the skills could tinker with it, but it's getting pretty old. Can't recall what language it was written in, I don't *think* it was c. UCX is available and comes on the VMS distribution these days, still a bit twitchy but better than it was, if you have the hobbyist VMS licence it covers it too IIRC. > Anyone have any experience with the Purveyor webserver for VMS? No, but WASD is freeware, and very well supported. We are a WASD beta site and I know the developer personally, he telnets in to play with it on the Vax here. (Lives in Adelaide, just up the road, - about 140 miles) Really good. It doesn't like CMU though, we tried it early in the WASD development days and it did some very odd things to web pages that were completely cured by a shift to Multinet... Works ok with Multinet, UCX (properly patched) and TCPWare. Still using Multinet 3.2 Rev B here. (OLD now) Available for Vax or Alpha. (Runs on Vax 6440 VMS 6.0 here). Cheers Geoff in Oz From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Aug 28 22:12:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: VMS TCP/IP? In-Reply-To: from "Curt Vendel" at Aug 28, 2002 10:59:51 PM Message-ID: <200208290312.g7T3CEq18718@shell1.aracnet.com> > WASD??? I'll look into it. What kills me is I used to have a few CD's > with Multinet on them and as the years went by they disappeared, I have all > of the books for Digital TCP Services but can't find the CD for that either, > damned shame. > > The Hobbyist thing, its what $90 to join and get the cd's and such or > something like that, right? Look for the free Encompass membership option (Associate?). The CD's are something like $20, and there is supposed to be a new set in the works, that will be done in the next month or two. Once you've got a valid Encompass (DECUS) membership you can download Multinet and TCPware from the Process Software website. Remember, the hobbyist licenses restrict you from using the system for anything other than hobbyist use. Zane From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 28 22:14:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: Need PC-AT "keyboard BIOS" docs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020829031419.85103.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > The idea is this - a PS/2-keyboard to RS-232 converter - plug in > > > any AT- style keyboard, hook the other end into the receive pin of > > > thE target's console port. I started from a) a microprocessor-based > The cheapest way to build that, if you don't mind the extra bulk, ... > Take one generic AT, plus keyboard, plus serial port. > Write code in a polled loop, or interrupt driven, to get keystrokes and > send them out the serial port. (there is some software already available > that includes that capability (such as PC-Talk) If I did it by replacing the BIOS ROM, I'd consider it. The bulk is more than I really want to deal with (not that it would dwarf a PDP-8/e or PDP-8/a, but it wouldn't be a portable solution. It's true - the lowest effort solution is to take a junk PC and let it do all the work. Not very small and not very power efficient. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 28 22:22:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: Need PC-AT "keyboard BIOS" docs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020829032212.83229.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > I had this idea for a keyboard adapter for classic machines, but I > > don't understand the 40-pin "keyboard BIOS" microcontroller well > > enough to know if it's possible... > > I am not sure where the term 'keyboard BIOS' came from, but it can go > back there :-) I know it's a pre-programmed microcontroller, but in the U.S., if you go to a PeeCee shop, that is what they call it. > You may not need the PC-compatible 8042 chip for this. Information on the > serial interface to the keyboard exists as well. True, it does, but I was investigating if I could use an existing microcontroller for that or not. > And I would have thought you could program just about any > microcontroller to talk to the keyboard on one side and > the RS232 line on the other Yes, but since this 8042 is already set up to do it, *and* it takes care of any undocumented or poorly documented "features", I was thinking it could be a faster/simpler solution. > > I know that the 6402 serial chip can be strapped to operate in a > > dumb converter mode... > > Although I normally do things like that, this is one time when a > microcontroller would be more efficient, I think. I was attempting to use the 8042 as the microcontroller in this circuit without an additional microcontroller that I would have had to program and debug. > You really want an IBM PC/AT Techref.... OK. That's exactly the kind of answer I was looking for. > You could _trivially_ hang the 8042 keyboard interface chip off the bus > of either of those CPUs. It's an alternative I'm considering. All I really need is a way to use a cheap keyboard, occasionally, not full time, to play with the innards of what is, essentially, an I/O board with an embedded microprocessor. I am already going to have a UART, so I wanted to explore the possibility of using the recieve side to listen to a keyboard with a minimal amount of stuff in between. Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 28 22:25:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: OpenVMS/Alpha Games? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020829032544.2298.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Antonio Carlini wrote: > > I'm trying to get a selection of games that will work on a Serial > > Terminal up and running on my OpenVMS server... > I also don't see LARN in your list. I know it was available > on OpenVMS (I used to have it, I don't know where it would > be now ...) I used to play Larn for hours and hours, waiting for the phone to ring when I did a lot of customer service (not a lot of customers and stuff didn't break all that often... was a nice job). Somewhere on a 16MT9, I have Larn sources. I also probably have them on an Amiga floppy - I ported it to the Amiga a long time ago, text mode only, no graphics. Fun game. It was even winnable. There's also UltraLarn, an unauthorized patch to Larn that plays like a "Monty Haul" Dungeon with character classes (including the class "Rambo" who has the Lance of Death and all "3"s for stats). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 28 22:31:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: Found Goodies for Sale In-Reply-To: <00dc01c24ee3$75440550$16000240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, John wrote: > Here's a list of items I found today while being shown some new places to go > by a friend. Send me an email stating what you want to pay and I will make a > offer to the dealers (I went to 4 places today). > Siemiens Saturn I This is a great digital (hybrid) PBX. Small enough to fit inside a home but still the size of a washing machine; runs on 120V. Has 192 ports of total capacity (providing you have the expansion rack installed, otherwise only 128 ports). Will handle ground-start and loop-start trunks, and regular single line sets. Also has nice digital sets; programming them is a regular pain in the ass. If anyone actually wants to go and buy this, I can provide you with all the software (on 5.25" disks) and manuals you need, plus hook you up with the remaining digital sets and line cards that I still have for when I had one of these. A nice switch! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Aug 28 22:31:26 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: Need PC-AT "keyboard BIOS" docs In-Reply-To: <20020829031419.85103.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020828232249.00acfff0@mail.30below.com> At 20:14 08/28/2002 -0700, you wrote: [ga-snippage...] >It's true - the lowest effort solution is to take a junk PC and let it >do all the work. Not very small and not very power efficient. Just found this on 'net-walkabout... http://www.beyondlogic.org/keyboard/keybrd.htm More info than you could ever wanna know about how to interface to a PC/AT keyboard.... HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 28 22:33:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: CoCo Floppies: Was:These darned old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > No, that was the Commodore 64 until it proves otherwise. The CoCo2 is > > still up in the air, though I am leaning towards "crap" because of the > > limited video output capability ;) > > Presumably by this criterion the Cray is totally 'crap' because it has no > video output at all? Yeah, sure. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 28 22:35:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: OpenVMS/Alpha Games? In-Reply-To: <200208282205.g7SM5Iu03164@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20020829033515.84075.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > I'm trying to get a selection of games that will work on a Serial > Terminal up and running on my OpenVMS server... > I'm really looking for copies of the following that will work on an Alpha > running OpenVMS: > zcode emulator About 15 years ago, I ported a UNIX zcode engine to VAX-C 2.3(?). IIRC, it was "pinfocom" - it would be a Z3 and *maybe* a Z5 interpreter. Back then, we were still reverse-engineering the data format. By 1994, it was all laid bare and there were plenty of interpreters in C to chose from. If you have C skills, you might consider a fresh port from a more modern zcode runtime for UNIX. Fancier game files might need a port of the curses library or similar for screen formatting, though. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Aug 28 22:45:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: Need PC-AT "keyboard BIOS" docs References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020828232249.00acfff0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3D6D97E2.20804@jetnet.ab.ca> Roger Merchberger wrote: > At 20:14 08/28/2002 -0700, you wrote: > > [ga-snippage...] > >> It's true - the lowest effort solution is to take a junk PC and let it >> do all the work. Not very small and not very power efficient. > > > Just found this on 'net-walkabout... > > http://www.beyondlogic.org/keyboard/keybrd.htm > > More info than you could ever wanna know about how to interface to a > PC/AT keyboard.... > > HTH, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > > What I would like to see a small micro processer board with a flash memory and a serial port and a few switches. This would be used to emulate a paper tape reader/punch for things like bootstraps and other small programs like FOCAL for the PDP-8 or other early computers that did not boot from BASIC in rom. From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Aug 28 23:08:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: Need PC-AT "keyboard BIOS" docs In-Reply-To: <3D6D97E2.20804@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: Ben Franchuk wrote: >What I would like to see a small micro processer board >with a flash memory and a serial port and a few switches. >This would be used to emulate a paper tape reader/punch >for things like bootstraps and other small programs like >FOCAL for the PDP-8 or other early computers that did >not boot from BASIC in rom. This would be remarkably easy to do. And, in fact, could contain a mechanism to read paper tape. Rather than using FLASH on a micro, I'd use an MMC card, so that after I stored my 128MB of paper tape images, I could switch out cards. While time has been a constraint, I've been mentally designing a similar concept device for Sinclair 1000s and ZX-81. A device with a 2 x 16 LCD, an MMC card, and a micro that would allow saving and loading of programs to the MMC instead of cassette tape. You'd be able to enter the filename on the LCD, or perhaps use a TSR on the ZX81 to assign a program name prior to the save. Then you could copy the MMC card on a Windows/Linux machine (DOS format filesystem), and swap cards with your friends. And with just a little software, I'm sure it could support Apples, PETs, IBM PCs, and anything else that had a cassette port. Basically, you'd just need to know the encoding standard, and as they say, "The rest is software". --John From mbg at TheWorld.com Wed Aug 28 23:35:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: OpenVMS/Alpha Games? Message-ID: <200208290435.AAA100238487@shell.TheWorld.com> >From what I've read, banned inside of DEC is the best description :^) It >uses creatures and spells straight from D&D. Yep, I know exactly which one you speak of... I have the sources for the pascal version of the game, along with the data files, preserved for almost 20 years. I have ported the game to C using curses (actually, it was mostly a brute-force translation from the pascal) and have it running at least as well as the original pascal version (which was incomplete) at home on my Alpha PWS running Linux. I've been in contact with one of the people who was responsible for writing the pascal version, and am trying to get ahold of all the others so that I can figure out how to write up a 'copyright' page with proper attributions. >Basically all I know is what's written up at the following webpage: >http://www.io.com/~adastra/rancourt/dnd/ >It was written by Daniel Lawrence, started on the PDP-10, was ported to >RSTS/E part way through, and after that ported to VAX/VMS. I played it on RSTS/E when I was working at Parker St (DEC) in Maynard back in 1977. Actually, the pascal version was also built on RSTS using, I believe, the OMSI compiler, and ran on RT-11. Dan has apparently given permission for any and all versions of the game to exist with his blessing, but since the source I have had a copyright which is problematic (since it doesn't mention him), I have to try to do the right thing. >I grabbed the source off of the web page above, and it almost works. In >fact it might work, IF, I could figure out exactly how to build it. BTW, >the "TOPS-20" executable, looks to be a VMS V1.0 executable. If/when I can resolve the issues of attribution, I'd love to make it available... should I even bother with sourceforge? :-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at TheWorld.com Wed Aug 28 23:36:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: OpenVMS/Alpha Games? Message-ID: <200208290436.AAA114317174@shell.TheWorld.com> >From what I've read, banned inside of DEC is the best description :^) It >uses creatures and spells straight from D&D. btw - there is a write-up somewhere, by the person who wrote that original 'banned in DEC' memo, explaining what *really* happened. I think it is generally available (read, on the web somewhere)... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From dittman at dittman.net Wed Aug 28 23:45:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: OpenVMS/Alpha Games? In-Reply-To: from "Megan" at Aug 29, 2002 12:35:12 AM Message-ID: <200208290441.g7T4fsA08214@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >From what I've read, banned inside of DEC is the best description :^) It > >uses creatures and spells straight from D&D. > > Yep, I know exactly which one you speak of... I have the sources > for the pascal version of the game, along with the data files, > preserved for almost 20 years. > > I have ported the game to C using curses (actually, it was mostly > a brute-force translation from the pascal) and have it running > at least as well as the original pascal version (which was incomplete) > at home on my Alpha PWS running Linux. > > I've been in contact with one of the people who was responsible for > writing the pascal version, and am trying to get ahold of all the > others so that I can figure out how to write up a 'copyright' page > with proper attributions. If this is the one I'm familiar with, I've got the source and executable for a version written in BASIC. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Aug 28 23:57:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: OpenVMS/Alpha Games? In-Reply-To: from "Eric Dittman" at Aug 28, 2002 11:41:54 PM Message-ID: <200208290456.g7T4usY22429@shell1.aracnet.com> > If this is the one I'm familiar with, I've got the source and > executable for a version written in BASIC. > -- > Eric Dittman Do you know how to rebuild it? Or do you happen to have an executable for the Alpha, or one that can be Vested? The source I got from the webpage I listed earlier has been through some odd changes (apparently VAX to PDP-11 to VAX again), and I'm having problems (though my problems might be Alpha Related). If I can find the time this weekend, I'm going to see about getting some of these games running on either my VAXstation 3100/20 or one of my VAXstation 4000's. Zane $ r dnd Welcome to DUNGEONS & DRAGONS %BAS-F-VIRBUFTOO, Virtual buffer too large -BAS-I-ON_CHAFIL, on channel 2 for file MONK$DKB500:[HEALYZH.WORK.DNDARCHIVE.DIST]DNDNOT.;1 at user PC 00000000 -BAS-I-FROSUB, In subprogram NEWDND -BAS-I-FROMOD, In module DND %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows image module routine line rel PC abs PC 0 FFFFFFFF8045EF94 FFFFFFFF8045EF94 DEC$BASRTL 0 0000000000010AE0 0000000000082AE0 ----- above condition handler called with exception 001A8154: %BAS-F-VIRBUFTOO, Virtual buffer too large -BAS-I-ON_CHAFIL, on channel 2 for file MONK$DKB500:[HEALYZH.WORK.DNDARCHIVE.DIST]DNDNOT.;1 at user PC 00000000 ----- end of exception message 0 FFFFFFFF8009271C FFFFFFFF8009271C DEC$BASRTL 0 0000000000052CC4 00000000000C4CC4 DEC$BASRTL 0 000000000001EE10 0000000000090E10 DEC$BASRTL 0 000000000005AE40 00000000000CCE40 DND NEWDND NEWDND 82 00000000000058F4 000000000004CEE4 ND DND$MAIN DND$MAIN 17 0000000000000360 0000000000030360 0 FFFFFFFF859B5474 FFFFFFFF859B5474 $ From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Aug 28 23:58:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: These darned old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry. That was intended to be private to Sellam -- Fred On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > I'll want a vendor space. > Is the floor plan available yet? > > I don't remember how many of the ultrasonic X10 units I have. They look a > lot like the later consoles, except for a partially hidden grille. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > > On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > > > > I had one of the Zenith with the tuning fork remotes. It was a 19" > > > > > > I have some X10 controllers that have ultrasonic remotes. Later on they > > > switched to IR. > > > My old alarm clock sitting next to the X10 controller used to do funny > > > things to the lights. > > > > > > Is there desire for such? (should I bring to VCF) > > > > If you do, I'll buy it (if nobody else does first ;) > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > > > > > -- > Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com > XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com > PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 > Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 > NOTE: My ISP is having difficulties. If you have problems reaching me at > this e-mail address, you can leave a message at: > fcisin@merritt.edu > > -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 NOTE: My ISP is having difficulties. If you have problems reaching me at this e-mail address, you can leave a message at: fcisin@merritt.edu From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Aug 29 00:10:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: WTB: box of 8" cleaning disks In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020828193454.3baf44b6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: Message-ID: <3D6D6540.23681.A1918A6@localhost> I do have some for my TRS80 m.2 and possibly my Shugart, but I'm hanging on to them like a leech. What about fabricating some with 8" jackets. After all they're simply slightly abrasive absorbent paper in an 8" envelope. No ? On the other hand, after reading the other replies, possibly I could spare ONE for suitable goods or renumeration. The TRS 8" Heath, and Shugart ARE easy to get at the head(s). If interested contact me. They are NOT in hermetically sealed packages. Lawrence > At 04:17 PM 8/28/02 -0700, Fred wrote: > >On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Joe wrote: > >> A friend of mine is looking for a box of cleaning disks for 8" floppy drive > >> for one of their customers and they're willing to PAY for one. If anyone > >> has one for sale let me know. > > > >Cleaning DISKS?!? > >For 8"? > > > >Yeah, they probably did once EXIST, > > They did exist. I used to have a box. > > > but why? > >Cleaning disks were handy for tiny hard to get at drives. But 8" drives > >are wide open. > > Not all of them. (I'm speaking from experience!) > > > > > > >Q-Tip and everclear. > > That's what I suggested but they WANT cleaning disks! This is for a company > (probably with the typical LUSER) and not for a knowledgable hobbyist. > > Joe > > > > > > > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Aug 29 00:10:40 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: CoCo Floppies: Was:These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020828191738.0273f3d8@mail.30below.com> References: <3D6D03F3.19844.8A24A6F@localhost> Message-ID: <3D6D6540.32207.A191900@localhost> Argghh 100 year old houses, tho great and well-built do have their problems. $10.000 is more than I paid for mine with 2 lots. Now that you've ticked my memory I do remember that trick of looking for the sensor. Now I have to go thru the fdds I marked NG the last time around. With all the takeovers and failures of once mighty companies I no longer have the faith I once had in the hardware companies. Only Big Blue remains faithfully supportive. I checked out the Cloud 9 site and am totally impressed. I don't find the prices out of line. It also led me to a site I had forgotten about, the group that puts on the CoCo-fest in Chicago. OK scratch the CM5. I still remember it as a step above CGA. I have a couple of NECs that might work, that sync down to 15mhz (?) . I'll try them and then google my way thru. :^) Sorry Merch you just happened to be present as the most knowledgeable man on the list about CoCos. Tony likely is the most knowledgeable about TRS in general now that Ward Griffiths is no longer with us :^) (just kidding Tony). And Allison, a former development mgr for TRS, IIRC, and CP/M guru, seems to be no longer with us. . I'm as lazy as the next man. You did give me much valuable info on the CoCo that googling likely wouldn't have provided since I didn't know the right questions to ask. Thanks Merch > Rumor has it that Lawrence Walker may have mentioned these words: > > > I'm fortunate in that I laid in a good stock of "on sale" floppies since > > my STs and Amigas require them. I also have a bunch of 3 1/2" floppy > > drives. Other than installing and testing them is there any way of > > identifying which ones are the lower density ? > > Sure, if you look just inside the dust flap on a 3.5" drive, and you see a > switch {or optical sensor) on the right hand side, it's a 1.44Meg - that's the > 1.44Meg sense switch to see if it has a HD disk in it. If the switching > mechanism is missing entirely, it's *probably* a 720K (but no absolute > guarantees). Another way is take the model number & google it -- I heard > somewhere that the Internet can be good for finding info like that... ;-) > > > Who is FHL ? > > Frank Hogg Laboratories... > > > >Are they still in existence, and with the "eliminator". The best > >thing would be a SCSI interface. Did anyone ever make one for the CoCo ? > > FHL went the way of the dodo bird long, long ago... the eliminators are > rather rare... anyone have an extra they'd like to get rid of??? > ;-) > > However, Mark [pause -- googling] Marlette of Cloud 9 Technologies was > making another batch of his SCSI board that used full-parity (some earlier SCSI > cards didn't have that ability, so you couldn't use certain devices like Zip > drives...) Ta'int cheap... USD $85 w/o RTC, $100 w/RTC [for the $15, get the RTC > is my feeling, anyway...] but they're new, and they're nice... > > http://www.cloud9tech.com/Hardware/index.html > > for a list of all his hardware that he has available... > > I'm tellin' ya... this Internet thing might actually catch on someday... ;-) > > > How did you chain the 3rd drive ? Just with a second connector on a > > cable connected to the 1st or 2nd connector on the 502 ? > > Just punched a new connector onto the existing cable... prolly not the > *right* way to do it, but as I always say: if it's stupid, but works, it > ain't stupid! > > > I have a CM-5 that I used on a Tandy 1000 and on something else (cant > > remember what) which used the special TRS video format (RGBI ?). Never > > occurred to me, DOH, that I might be able to use it on the CoCo. > > It shouldn't have occurred to you -- because you *can't* use it!!! RGBI is not a > special TRS format -- it's CGA/EGA. It's a digital mode which stands for > Red/Green/Blue/Intensity, and uses 5V digital levels. The CM-5 is also known to > be computing history's abso-frelling-lutely crappiest monitor in the universe. > It had a .52mm dot pitch - hell, the lead in my mechanical pencils is > smaller! The CM-8 was better, but not outstanding with a .42mm DP. You're better > bets were the Magnavox 3CM515 (IIRC?) or hacking a cable for the Atari/Amiga > monitors... A few of the NEC 2[mumble] VGA monitors with .28 DP would sync that > low, too; they make gorgeous displays, but were super-expensive way back when... > > [snip] > > > As Sam likely found, it is confusing to switch from platform to platform > >concurrently. I usually immerse myself in one for some time before > >working on another. I've been in a laptop mode lately. Grid and others. > >I'll have to switch to a CoCo mode to explore this further. > > Too many projects, too little time. > > A good project would be a video switchbox that would take an Atari SCM1224 and > give you 3 or 4 inputs for it to switch between, adapted between the > CoCo3/Atari/Amiga/others... I have a $10,000 sewer problem to repair first, > tho... :-(( > > Laterz, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > -- > > Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > zmerch@30below.com > > What do you do when Life gives you lemons, > and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Aug 29 00:11:16 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: CoCo Floppies: Was:These darned old computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3D6D6540.27024.A19195A@localhost> Damn ! So now I can't even be sure of any of my fdd's marked NG (since I stupidly forgot they could be 720meg ones). Googling the model #s on old drives is also pretty hazardous or unproductive given all the company fall- outs. Kind of like sussing out old memory chips using chip #s or FCCs. So, Check them out installed, and then check them out installed on another computer. There's got to be a better way. Lawrence > > > Sure, if you look just inside the dust flap on a 3.5" drive, and you see a > > > switch {or optical sensor) on the right hand side, it's a 1.44Meg - that's > > > the 1.44Meg sense switch to see if it has a HD disk in it. If the switching > > On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > Be very careful. Some early 3.5" drives (including the 600 rpm > > full-height Sony units) put the disk-detect sensor on the right. Well, it was > > a logical place to put it, out of the way of the write-protect sensor, before > > there were 1.44M disks. So a sensor on the right need not imply a 1.44M drive. > > And some of the early 1.4M drives that IBM used had no 1.4M/730K sensor! > It would try both densities in read attempts, and you could > specify in software to write the lower density (for example: > FORMAT A: /T:80/N:9 ), but if you put in a 720K diskette and tried to > format, the drive would have no way to know that it was not a 1.4M. > > > Incidentally, such drives often won't work _at all_ with 1.44M disks. The HD > > hole lines up with the disk-detect sensor so the drive thinks there's no disk > > inserted. > > At least that way, it never misinterpreted a disk as the WRONG type. > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Aug 29 00:11:41 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: CoCo Floppies: Was:These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <1fhmxe0.g1uqu61chwos8M%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> References: <3D6D03F3.19844.8A24A6F@localhost> Message-ID: <3D6D6540.28050.A19185B@localhost> Great site for the CoCo user. These guys are actually still producing products for the CoCo. And their prices are not out of line (for a change). A SCSI catridge for $80, $100 with an RTC, an AT interface and more. Thanks Tim. > > Who is FHL ? Are they still in existence, and with the "eliminator". The best > > thing would be a SCSI interface. Did anyone ever make one for the CoCo ? > > Frank Hoggs Labratory. Maker of fine hardware for your CoCo. No longer a > going concern. > > There were three different SCSI implementation for the CoCo. Kentyon, > Disto (the 4-in-1 board) and Cloud-9 (the TC^3 board). > > You can still buy a Cloud-9 interface today: > > http://www.cloud9tech.com/Hardware/index.html > > -- > Q: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. > A: Why is top posting frowned upon? > -------------------------------------------------------- > tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Aug 29 00:43:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: CoCo Floppies: Was:These darned old computers In-Reply-To: References: <3D6D03F4.28344.8A24AD8@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Aug 28, 2 05:10:12 pm Message-ID: <3D6D6DAF.18016.A3A0E76@localhost> Thanks Tony. It ain't about to happen right away, but this goes in my archives. Come to think about it my archives are full of your insight. Maybe the time is right to issue a CD " The world According to Tony Aird- computer hardware hints and help". Not necessarily kidding. Lawrence > > > > I haven't worked on my M.2 for a long time (since I first got it about 3 or 4 > > > > yrs. ago, and I'm also missing the cables for the 3 HDs) It was > > recommended by several people that I transfer the programs I have from 8" to 5 > > 1/4 disks (unless bit-rot has already got to them) and I believe there's a faq > > on how to do that. Do you know if the disk controller on the model 2 /16 is > > the same as on the other RS models ? If so possibly I could just transfer them > > to another format. > > No, the M2/12/16 machines were desigend to use 8" drives. This would > imply a 500kbps data rate (double density MFM), and a 360rpm drive. The > 5.25" drives used on the CoCo, M3, M4, etc use 250kbps data > rate (again double density MFM) and turn at 300 rpm. > > You should be able to wire up a 1.2Mbyte PC 5.25" drive to the M2 though. > That's electrically very like an 8" drive. I am sure a web search will > turn up something about doing this. > > A 1.44Mbyte 3.5" drive _might_ work. The data rate is right, but it turns > at 300rpm. This shouldn't matter too much (there's enough time between > index pulses for the machine to fit in all the data it expects to get in > there), apart from during formating (where the machine might object to > the excessively long gap between the end of the last sector and the next > index pulse). All you can do is try it -- it might work. > > > -tony > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Aug 29 00:43:31 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: CoCo Floppies: Was:These darned old computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3D6D6DB0.28576.A3A0F17@localhost> Check out www.cloud9.com and the numerous OS9 sites. You'll be amazed as I was. Lawrence A closed mind prepares it's own demise. Lao Chi Ching > On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > No, that was the Commodore 64 until it proves otherwise. The CoCo2 is > > > still up in the air, though I am leaning towards "crap" because of the > > > limited video output capability ;) > > > > Presumably by this criterion the Cray is totally 'crap' because it has no > > video output at all? > > Yeah, sure. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From cvisors at carnagevisors.net Thu Aug 29 05:22:00 2002 From: cvisors at carnagevisors.net (cvisors@carnagevisors.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: SGI Indigo.. Message-ID: Well, jsut aquired myself a nice sgi indigo, the only issue I think I may of been given the wrong mouse... Now if any listmembers, happen to have an indigo, can you tell me the part number of the mouse, the mouse I have is 9150809 which I think is for an Indigo 2, but then I could be wrong... Nice machine tho, it has no hard drive, or any of the sleds, but that isn't too much of an issue, as I will use an external scsi drive. But the monitor is huge, about 20 inch I think its silicon graphics branded, but made by mitsubishi (I think) and the monitor is in good condition.. The best thing about it, is the cost.. I got it for nothing, which is nice down here in australia. as I very rarely see anything which is free to a good home... Benjamin From meltie at myrealbox.com Thu Aug 29 05:50:01 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (melt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: SGI Indigo.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1030618552.2984.8.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> On Thu, 2002-08-29 at 11:26, cvisors@carnagevisors.net wrote: > Well, jsut aquired myself a nice sgi indigo, the only issue I think I may > of been given the wrong mouse... > Now if any listmembers, happen to have an indigo, can you tell me the part > number of the mouse, the mouse I have is 9150809 which I think is for an > Indigo 2, but then I could be wrong... My Indigo's mouse is an 9150800... alex -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. From als at thangorodrim.de Thu Aug 29 05:56:01 2002 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: CoCo Floppies: Was:These darned old computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020829105530.GA1427@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Wed, Aug 28, 2002 at 06:22:47PM -0500, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > > No, that was the Commodore 64 until it proves otherwise. The CoCo2 is > > > still up in the air, though I am leaning towards "crap" because of the > > > limited video output capability ;) > > > > Presumably by this criterion the Cray is totally 'crap' because it has no > > video output at all? > > No, it's crap before that, because it won't run Windows 95. And what is even worse, it doesn't run $SHOOTER_GAME_WITH_COOL_3D_GRAPHICS, therefore it is totally useless. Aren't computers, like, made for gaming or something? Using computers for real computing or even - heaven forbid - to get work done is just soooo backwards and oldfashioned and, like, soooo totally uncool. SCNR, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Aug 29 07:33:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: [OT] UK TV Licenses (was Re: These darned old computers) In-Reply-To: <3D6D36F4.10401.9643A1C@localhost> References: <3D6D00B6.6030701@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020829083519.45275d6e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:47 PM 8/28/02 -0500, you wrote: > Actually it came from Canada your neighbor on the north where the Bush >administration is doing everything in it's power to wipe out our economy and >social programs like health-care for his corporate sponsors, not to mention >the opposition to the KYOTO Accords as our lakes and country are being >wiped out by acid rain and pollution drifting north from a corporate friendly >administration denying there's a problem. > If you think it's bad there, be glad you aren't here (the US). You never know when your stocks are going to be wiped out due to corporate fraud, you bank account stolen by mismanagement and your job lost due to "corporate re-structuring" or your house and/or neighborhood bulldozed for some commercail venture. Be VERY glad! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Aug 29 07:33:51 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: SGI Indigo.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020829082511.493f587c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:26 PM 8/29/02 +1000, you wrote: >Well, jsut aquired myself a nice sgi indigo, the only issue I think I may >of been given the wrong mouse... >Now if any listmembers, happen to have an indigo, can you tell me the part >number of the mouse, the mouse I have is 9150809 which I think is for an >Indigo 2, but then I could be wrong... The mouse that I have on my Indigo is PN 9150800. This one is a mechanical mouse. I used to have an optical mouse for it that worked but got rid of it and don't know it's PN. I tried some other optical mice that a friend had and they would have move the cursor in one axis!? (horizontal IIRC) FWIW I just spent a good bit of my spare time for the past three days removing, disassembling, cleaning and reinstalling a good number of the key switchs on my keyboard. Whew! I'm glad that's over! Joe From curt at atari-history.com Thu Aug 29 08:24:01 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: VMS TCP/IP? References: <004e01c24efb$a67c0a60$0b00a8c0@cvendel> <006101c24f09$1419a480$de2c67cb@helpdesk> Message-ID: <008101c24f5f$2deb2db0$01000001@cvendel> If I remember right UCX was for VMS 4 or earlier I think.... I gotta do some digging, I know I've got the Digital TCP Services CD someplace, I'll look into the WASD webserver afterwards, it would be fun to check it out. Thanks. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Roberts" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 11:06 PM Subject: Re: VMS TCP/IP? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Curt Vendel" > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 11:00 AM > Subject: VMS TCP/IP? > > > > Besides Multinet and TCPware, are there any freeware TCP services for VMS > > 6.1 and higher??? > > There is CMU/IP, freeware IP stack originally developed at Carnegie-Mellon > Uni. > Not sure what version it was in the end, 6.something I think, most things > work ok with it, though it's a little slow. > Rather buggy too, though perhaps less so than the versions of UCX that were > around at the time it was written. > Haven't seen anything on it for a while, I think the support mailing list is > dead these days. I think there are still versions > of it out there in use and a search of the web will find it for you > somewhere. > Open source so those with the skills could tinker with it, but it's getting > pretty old. Can't recall what language it was written in, > I don't *think* it was c. > > UCX is available and comes on the VMS distribution these days, still a bit > twitchy but > better than it was, if you have the hobbyist VMS licence it covers it too > IIRC. > > > Anyone have any experience with the Purveyor webserver for VMS? > > No, but WASD is freeware, and very well supported. We are a WASD beta site > and I know > the developer personally, he telnets in to play with it on the Vax here. > (Lives in Adelaide, just up the road, - about 140 miles) > Really good. It doesn't like CMU though, we tried it early in the WASD > development days > and it did some very odd things to web pages that were completely cured by a > shift to Multinet... > > Works ok with Multinet, UCX (properly patched) and TCPWare. Still using > Multinet 3.2 Rev B here. (OLD now) > Available for Vax or Alpha. (Runs on Vax 6440 VMS 6.0 here). > > Cheers > > Geoff in Oz > From curt at atari-history.com Thu Aug 29 08:26:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: VMS TCP/IP? References: <200208290312.g7T3CEq18718@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <008701c24f5f$60c7f600$01000001@cvendel> Hi Zane, I'm just using it to have some fun, work on recovering old Atari Vax Tape data and then experimenting with the Vax and maybe playing around with putting parts of the Atari Museum website up on it, all in the pursuit of fun :-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 11:12 PM Subject: Re: VMS TCP/IP? > > WASD??? I'll look into it. What kills me is I used to have a few CD's > > with Multinet on them and as the years went by they disappeared, I have all > > of the books for Digital TCP Services but can't find the CD for that either, > > damned shame. > > > > The Hobbyist thing, its what $90 to join and get the cd's and such or > > something like that, right? > > Look for the free Encompass membership option (Associate?). The CD's are > something like $20, and there is supposed to be a new set in the works, that > will be done in the next month or two. Once you've got a valid Encompass > (DECUS) membership you can download Multinet and TCPware from the Process > Software website. > > Remember, the hobbyist licenses restrict you from using the system for > anything other than hobbyist use. > > Zane From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Aug 29 08:39:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: VMS TCP/IP? In-Reply-To: <008101c24f5f$2deb2db0$01000001@cvendel> Message-ID: IIRC, it's still called 'UCX' on the V7.2 hobbyistCD. I have a V5.3 system, which still calls it UCX, also. I think V6 or so was when they starting calling it (in places) TCP/IP. -- Pat On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, Curt Vendel wrote: > If I remember right UCX was for VMS 4 or earlier I think.... I gotta do > some digging, I know I've got the Digital TCP Services CD someplace, I'll > look into the WASD webserver afterwards, it would be fun to check it out. > Thanks. > > > Curt > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Geoff Roberts" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 11:06 PM > Subject: Re: VMS TCP/IP? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Curt Vendel" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 11:00 AM > > Subject: VMS TCP/IP? > > > > > > > Besides Multinet and TCPware, are there any freeware TCP services for > VMS > > > 6.1 and higher??? > > > > There is CMU/IP, freeware IP stack originally developed at Carnegie-Mellon > > Uni. > > Not sure what version it was in the end, 6.something I think, most things > > work ok with it, though it's a little slow. > > Rather buggy too, though perhaps less so than the versions of UCX that > were > > around at the time it was written. > > Haven't seen anything on it for a while, I think the support mailing list > is > > dead these days. I think there are still versions > > of it out there in use and a search of the web will find it for you > > somewhere. > > Open source so those with the skills could tinker with it, but it's > getting > > pretty old. Can't recall what language it was written in, > > I don't *think* it was c. > > > > UCX is available and comes on the VMS distribution these days, still a bit > > twitchy but > > better than it was, if you have the hobbyist VMS licence it covers it too > > IIRC. > > > > > Anyone have any experience with the Purveyor webserver for VMS? > > > > No, but WASD is freeware, and very well supported. We are a WASD beta > site > > and I know > > the developer personally, he telnets in to play with it on the Vax here. > > (Lives in Adelaide, just up the road, - about 140 miles) > > Really good. It doesn't like CMU though, we tried it early in the WASD > > development days > > and it did some very odd things to web pages that were completely cured by > a > > shift to Multinet... > > > > Works ok with Multinet, UCX (properly patched) and TCPWare. Still using > > Multinet 3.2 Rev B here. (OLD now) > > Available for Vax or Alpha. (Runs on Vax 6440 VMS 6.0 here). > > > > Cheers > > > > Geoff in Oz > > > > From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Aug 29 08:57:00 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: Need PC-AT "keyboard BIOS" docs Message-ID: You might also want to check out the software designed to read from a serial-interface modified CueCat bar code reader, cuecat-0.3.0.tar.gz at http://www.viking.org.au/mirrors/cuecat/, IIRC. The original CueCat interfaced with the keyboard port, but there were hacks to serially interface it, then read the character stream. -----Original Message----- From: Michael Holley [mailto:swtpc6800@attbi.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 8:08 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Need PC-AT "keyboard BIOS" docs I have been looking into this also. Here is a good link on AT Keyboards http://www.beyondlogic.org/keyboard/keybrd.htm Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley ----- Original Message ----- Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 10:34:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Ethan Dicks Subject: Need PC-AT "keyboard BIOS" docs To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org I had this idea for a keyboard adapter for classic machines, but I don't understand the 40-pin "keyboard BIOS" microcontroller well enough to know if it's possible... So... is there a good place (on the web) to learn about the "keyboard BIOS" chip? Alternatively, is there already a project like this that I can clone? If anyone has any examples of how to attach a PeeCee keyboard to a 68000 or 6502 directly, without going through a UART, I guess I'd be interested in that, too; but since I was already planning on sticking a Z8530 or 6551 or 16550 chip on the OMNIBUS board anyway, I might as well use the same serial port for all embedded console I/O. Thanks for any pointers, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From dtwright at uiuc.edu Thu Aug 29 09:02:00 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: Amiga GPIB/IEEE-488 card? In-Reply-To: References: <3D6CFA30.BC962815@ccp.com> Message-ID: <20020829140201.GC2890501@uiuc.edu> Tony Duell said: > > Am i the only person who associates GPIB more with programmable > instrumentation than with the PET (or with HP computers that happen to > use it for their disk drives). At one time just about every digital > instrument had GPIB availabe as an option (if not as standard). I now associate it more with instrumentation only because I work for a large research university ;) I used to associate it just with HP computers because it was originally HPIB, designed to work with HP machines and their own test/scientific equipment; they later opened the spec and it became GPIB, as I recall... - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From dtwright at uiuc.edu Thu Aug 29 09:12:00 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:57 2005 Subject: SGI Indigo.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020829141201.GE2890501@uiuc.edu> From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Aug 29 09:33:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:58 2005 Subject: SGI Indigo.. In-Reply-To: <20020829141201.GE2890501@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, Dan Wright wrote: > >From what I remember, the Indigos (and everything newer, for that matter) use > PS/2 keyboards/mice. It's the older machines (like the Personal IRIS) that > need special SGI input devices. It's possible that the older Indigos (the > ones that can't run IRIX 6.x) don't use PS/2. Yeah, I _think_ the R4000 Indigo is PS/2. Mine is an R3000, which uses a "chained" mouse/kbd, a la Sun or Mac. Not surprisingly, they aren't that easy to find. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Aug 29 09:47:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: SGI Indigo.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > Yeah, I _think_ the R4000 Indigo is PS/2. Mine is an R3000, which > uses a "chained" mouse/kbd, a la Sun or Mac. Not surprisingly, they > aren't that easy to find. I've just been corrected by a guy who's using one. The R4000 are still serial kbd/mouse, not PS/2. The connector looks like a PS/2 on my R3000, though. Doc From cvisors at carnagevisors.net Thu Aug 29 09:56:00 2002 From: cvisors at carnagevisors.net (cvisors@carnagevisors.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: SGI Indigo.. In-Reply-To: <1030618552.2984.8.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> Message-ID: On 29 Aug 2002, melt wrote: > On Thu, 2002-08-29 at 11:26, cvisors@carnagevisors.net wrote: > > Well, jsut aquired myself a nice sgi indigo, the only issue I think I may > > of been given the wrong mouse... > > Now if any listmembers, happen to have an indigo, can you tell me the part > > number of the mouse, the mouse I have is 9150809 which I think is for an > > Indigo 2, but then I could be wrong... > My Indigo's mouse is an 9150800... > > alex > Thanks for all of this information, it looks as if the mouse, which looks like the right sort of mouse, is one of the mice used for the Indigo2. Which unfortunatly is a PS/2 mouse, the person I got the indigo from, though is going to have a bit of a poke round and see if he can find the original mouse. Its from a university who are pretty anal about keeping all of these things together. so hopefully it will turn up.. Benjamin From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Aug 29 10:40:00 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: trailing-edge.com Message-ID: <004801c24f72$84aea7e0$023ca8c0@blafleur> www.trailing-edge.com (and it's subordinates, like simh.trailing-edge.com) has been unresponsive for about a day now. Does anyone know if this is just temporary, or a permanent situation? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Aug 29 10:49:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: SGI Indigo.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020829115133.5a17bd16@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:47 AM 8/29/02 -0500, you wrote: >On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > >> Yeah, I _think_ the R4000 Indigo is PS/2. Mine is an R3000, which >> uses a "chained" mouse/kbd, a la Sun or Mac. Not surprisingly, they >> aren't that easy to find. > > I've just been corrected by a guy who's using one. The R4000 are >still serial kbd/mouse, not PS/2. > The connector looks like a PS/2 on my R3000, though. I have both a R3000 indigo and a R4400 Indigo and I THOUGHT that the R4000 & the R4400 Indigos used a PS-2 mouse and keyboard but after I bought my R4400 I found that ALL of the connectors are EXACTLY the same as those on the R3000. The connector for the keyboard looks like a PS-2 connector but it isn't. There is no connector on the Indigo for the mouse. The mouse plugs into the keyboard. The mouse connector also looks like a PS-2 connector but again it isn't. Joe From jamesl at bestweb.net Thu Aug 29 10:51:00 2002 From: jamesl at bestweb.net (James E. LaBarre) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: These darned old computers References: Message-ID: <3D6E42D9.6090107@bestweb.net> No, the remote that came with a TV my grandmother had (mid 1960's) had only 2 buttons. I think it worked either by the clicking, or a static pulse. All it did was select channels up & down. Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > >>Some US company (I forget who) made an ultrasonic remote controlled >>valve TV where the remote was essentially tuned metal bars that were >>mechanically hit when the button was pressed. No electronics in the >>handset at all. The receiver in the TV detected one of 4 (or so) >>different frequencies corresponding to the 4 buttons on the remote, and >>then operated a relay to trigger the appropriate function (I think >>channel selection was done using an electromechanical stepping swtich, >>etc). From curt at atari-history.com Thu Aug 29 11:04:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: VMS TCP/IP? References: Message-ID: <005201c24f75$7b872ea0$01000001@cvendel> Thanks for the heads up Pat.... Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Finnegan" To: Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 9:38 AM Subject: Re: VMS TCP/IP? > IIRC, it's still called 'UCX' on the V7.2 hobbyistCD. I have a V5.3 > system, which still calls it UCX, also. I think V6 or so was when they > starting calling it (in places) TCP/IP. > > -- Pat > > On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, Curt Vendel wrote: > > > If I remember right UCX was for VMS 4 or earlier I think.... I gotta do > > some digging, I know I've got the Digital TCP Services CD someplace, I'll > > look into the WASD webserver afterwards, it would be fun to check it out. > > Thanks. > > > > > > Curt > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Geoff Roberts" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 11:06 PM > > Subject: Re: VMS TCP/IP? > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Curt Vendel" > > > To: > > > Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 11:00 AM > > > Subject: VMS TCP/IP? > > > > > > > > > > Besides Multinet and TCPware, are there any freeware TCP services for > > VMS > > > > 6.1 and higher??? > > > > > > There is CMU/IP, freeware IP stack originally developed at Carnegie-Mellon > > > Uni. > > > Not sure what version it was in the end, 6.something I think, most things > > > work ok with it, though it's a little slow. > > > Rather buggy too, though perhaps less so than the versions of UCX that > > were > > > around at the time it was written. > > > Haven't seen anything on it for a while, I think the support mailing list > > is > > > dead these days. I think there are still versions > > > of it out there in use and a search of the web will find it for you > > > somewhere. > > > Open source so those with the skills could tinker with it, but it's > > getting > > > pretty old. Can't recall what language it was written in, > > > I don't *think* it was c. > > > > > > UCX is available and comes on the VMS distribution these days, still a bit > > > twitchy but > > > better than it was, if you have the hobbyist VMS licence it covers it too > > > IIRC. > > > > > > > Anyone have any experience with the Purveyor webserver for VMS? > > > > > > No, but WASD is freeware, and very well supported. We are a WASD beta > > site > > > and I know > > > the developer personally, he telnets in to play with it on the Vax here. > > > (Lives in Adelaide, just up the road, - about 140 miles) > > > Really good. It doesn't like CMU though, we tried it early in the WASD > > > development days > > > and it did some very odd things to web pages that were completely cured by > > a > > > shift to Multinet... > > > > > > Works ok with Multinet, UCX (properly patched) and TCPWare. Still using > > > Multinet 3.2 Rev B here. (OLD now) > > > Available for Vax or Alpha. (Runs on Vax 6440 VMS 6.0 here). > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Geoff in Oz > > > > > > > > From hansp at aconit.org Thu Aug 29 11:27:01 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: trailing-edge.com References: <004801c24f72$84aea7e0$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <3D6E4B3F.1030407@aconit.org> Bob Lafleur wrote: > www.trailing-edge.com (and it's subordinates, like > simh.trailing-edge.com) has been unresponsive for about a day now. Does > anyone know if this is just temporary, or a permanent situation? From a newsgroup posting a few days ago : >The trailing-edge.com archive sites, including > > klh10.trailing-edge.com > simh.trailing-edge.com > pdp-10.trailing-edge.com > pdp-11.trailing-edge.com > >are down as of this morning (22-Aug-2002) for a network upgrade. The >process includes a new copper loop to the CO and router changes on both >ends. All this is in the hands of Worldcom and I'm crossing my >fingers that things will be back to normal by the end of the day. Perhaps the fingers were uncrossed a little too soon and they are having problems with the new setup. This and All Kossows problems on spies.com leaves a big ole in the archives, temporarily I hope. -- hbp From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Thu Aug 29 11:29:01 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: Amiga GPIB/IEEE-488 card? In-Reply-To: <20020829140201.GC2890501@uiuc.edu> References: <3D6CFA30.BC962815@ccp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020829122801.00781c30@pop1.epm.net.co> At 09:02 AM 8/29/02 -0500, you wrote: >I now associate it more with instrumentation only because I work for a large >research university ;) I used to associate it just with HP computers because >it was originally HPIB, designed to work with HP machines and their own >test/scientific equipment; they later opened the spec and it became GPIB, as I >recall... I don't think it was long after HPIB was introduced that the first corresponding IEEE standard was issued. I think Tek adopted it pretty soon. Things were very awkward before HPIB, with GPIO interfaces, BCD interfaces, instrument-to-parallel printer interfaces hacked into GPIO interfaces at the controller side... ugly, ugly. Let's see: It was announced in the October '72 issue of the HP journal, and immediately submitted to IEC. It was approved by IEC as a standard at the end of '75, I believe, after some revisions and signal name changes; I think IEEE 488 is from 1978, and 488.1 was issued in 1987. But by the end of the 70's it was definitely a multi-vendor standard for instrumentation. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Aug 29 11:37:01 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse' References: <20020829025853.23750.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D6E4CF7.DB14642E@ccp.com> > --- Robert Schaefer wrote: > > Found a IIc+ the other day at the thrift store, someone screwed up, it > > was only marked $7something. Hey what a deal. I paid 10 for mine which included 5 1/4 drive and color monitor. Didn't realize until later that it is the hotrod of the Apple II's. It runs at 4 mHz instead of the usual 1 mHz, and I think you can add memeory up to 512k. I'm looking for the LCD display that goes with it, as I'd like to be able to use it as a cheap and dirty RS232 terminal. I have a handful of 3.5" drives in questionable shape that will work on it, or the IIGS. you can daisychain one 3.5 drive and 2 5.25's and that together makes a pretty forminable Apple system. There was a hard drive made too, but that's kinda overkill, as the 3.5" floppies hold 800k anyways. The trick is finding the DSDD floppies . . . I've found them at hamfests from older PC users getting rid of old DOS software. Enjoy . . . . Gary HIldebrand St. Joseph, MO From daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Aug 29 11:53:00 2002 From: daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David A. Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse' In-Reply-To: <20020829025853.23750.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 08/28/02, Ethan Dicks scribbled: > > --- Robert Schaefer wrote: > > Had a mouse attached to it, and it wasn't until I > > got it home that I noticed it was an optical mouse. Mfgr'd by Mouse > > Systems... It seems that the IIc+ will take the older DE9 style Mac > > mice, so this might be for one of those. > > Does this little guy need a fancy pad? > > I would expect so. They are much rarer than the mice. > You know, I do believe I have an extra Mouse Systems metal mouse pad, that looks a lot like the pad I have for my Sun Optical mouse. I'll have to check when I get home tonight. If it's the right nodel number for you, you can have it for (what's a reasonable price?) plus shipping... -- --- David A. Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From foo at siconic.com Thu Aug 29 13:13:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 date change means more time to prepare an exhibit In-Reply-To: <3D6D1433.27495.8DC7227@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Sellam, What are the new dates ? In looking thru the list msgs. I > couldn't find a new date notice, nor on the exhibitor page. Not that > I'll be able to attend, :^( > unless it's in November when I reach this years wintering location in > Vancouver, BC. The VCF website always has the latest info: http://www.vintage.org The new dates are October 26-27. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Aug 29 13:23:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse' In-Reply-To: <013c01c24ef3$6cbadc00$70469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Robert Schaefer wrote: > Found a IIc+ the other day at the thrift store, someone screwed up, it was > only > marked $7something. Had a mouse attached to it, and it wasn't until I > got it home that I noticed it was an optical mouse. Mfgr'd by Mouse Systems > (or rather, `in Singapore for Mouse Systems'), the model number is > 403009-001, and printed underneath it is `MSC 403009-1' and `S/N:EK > 030724'. It seems that the IIc+ > will take the older DE9 style Mac mice, so this might be for one of those. > Does this little guy need a fancy pad? Also, any pointers to IIc+ specific > sites? I'm googling, but I'd appreciate any hints. The //c+ is simply an Apple //c with a 3.5" drive, a faster 6502 processor (running somewhere around 3Mhz) and a built-in power supply. Any information that deals with the Apple //e will apply to the Apple //c and //c+. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From MTPro at aol.com Thu Aug 29 13:25:00 2002 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: WTB: box of 8" cleaning disks Message-ID: <50.10bcfc0f.2a9fc10f@aol.com> I have e-mailed Joe about what I have - a nice brand new set of three in their original package. The package is not sealed in plastic, but the disks look new and unused. I'm going to keep one, but will sell his people two disks and the case. Anyone want to comment on their worth? Thanks, David David Greelish Classic Computing www.classiccomputing.com "classiccomputing" on eBay Please see: http://members.aol.com/mtpro/compuclean.html << I do have some for my TRS80 m.2 and possibly my Shugart, but I'm hanging on to them like a leech. What about fabricating some with 8" jackets. After all they're simply slightly abrasive absorbent paper in an 8" envelope. No ? On the other hand, after reading the other replies, possibly I could spare ONE for suitable goods or renumeration. The TRS 8" Heath, and Shugart ARE easy to get at the head(s). If interested contact me. They are NOT in hermetically sealed packages. Lawrence >> From foo at siconic.com Thu Aug 29 13:32:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: Need PC-AT "keyboard BIOS" docs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, J.C. Wren wrote: > While time has been a constraint, I've been mentally designing a similar > concept device for Sinclair 1000s and ZX-81. A device with a 2 x 16 LCD, > an MMC card, and a micro that would allow saving and loading of programs > to the MMC instead of cassette tape. You'd be able to enter the filename > on the LCD, or perhaps use a TSR on the ZX81 to assign a program name > prior to the save. Then you could copy the MMC card on a Windows/Linux > machine (DOS format filesystem), and swap cards with your friends. Cool idea. I'd buy one :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Aug 29 13:33:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: VMS TCP/IP? In-Reply-To: from "Curt Vendel" at Aug 29, 2002 09:22:53 AM Message-ID: <200208291833.g7TIXBJ20074@shell1.aracnet.com> > If I remember right UCX was for VMS 4 or earlier I think.... I gotta do > some digging, I know I've got the Digital TCP Services CD someplace, I'll > look into the WASD webserver afterwards, it would be fun to check it out. > Thanks. I'm not sure when UCX started, but it went through OpenVMS 7.1/UCX 4.0, it was with OpenVMS 7.2 that it switched to TCPIP 5.0, and the current version is either 5.1 or 5.3 (I think 5.3 may have just come out with 7.3-1, but I've not seen the release notes, or a new Condist). Zane From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 29 13:59:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: Need PC-AT "keyboard BIOS" docs In-Reply-To: <20020829032212.83229.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Aug 28, 2 08:22:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2881 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020829/aa97c576/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 29 14:00:04 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: CoCo Floppies: Was:These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <3D6D6540.27024.A19195A@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Aug 29, 2 00:05:20 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 436 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020829/fbaee5ad/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 29 14:00:36 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: CoCo Floppies: Was:These darned old computers In-Reply-To: <3D6D6DAF.18016.A3A0E76@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Aug 29, 2 00:41:19 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 406 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020829/d5fa30d5/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Aug 29 15:00:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: id this Data I/O part Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020829160242.5d2fe66e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found a small circuit board marked "Data I/O", "702-1072" and "Plug in Adapter". There is also a paper label on the board that says "910-1347-1 E". It has two 16 pin DIP ICs on it. I can't see their part numbers because they have paper labels on them. The board mounts using three metal standoffs and has a row of 14 pins along the left and right hand edges. Can anyone tell me what it is? Joe From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Aug 29 15:29:00 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: S-100 Board Info Needed In-Reply-To: <3D6D1558.25674.5A1287@localhost> References: <3D6D0B8C.20621.33CC32@localhost> <3D6D1558.25674.5A1287@localhost> Message-ID: >Yes, these are the switches in the upper left. But knowing that they >are address selection switches does not help much. I presumed they >were. But there appear to be 4 banks of 4K RAM. That should only >require about 4 switches for selection. There are 16 switches >however. Each 4k page has 4 switches, numbered A12 to A15, and there are 4 pages. The four switches determine the starting address, between 0000 and F000, of that page. Page 1 = upper left switches, page 2 = upper right, page 3 = lower left, page 4 = lower right. >So, if you have the manual, can you say what the specific switch >assignements are? Starting address DIP switch setting Decimal Hex A15 A14 A13 A12 0 0000 x x x x 4,096 1000 x x x c 8,192 2000 x x c x 12,288 3000 x x c c 16,384 4000 x c x x 20,480 5000 x c x c 24,576 6000 x c c x 28,672 7000 x c c c 32,768 8000 c x x x 36,864 9000 c x x c 40,960 A000 c x c x 45,056 B000 c x c c 49,152 C000 c c x x 53,248 D000 c c x c 57,344 E000 c c c x 61,440 F000 c c c c x= switch open, off, or down position c= switch closed, on, in up position >Also, what is the analog circuitry in the lower right, with the delay >module? According to the manual, the lower section of the board is all the control logic and U70, which is down along the lower edge in the right corner, is for the protect/unprotect logic. U71 is a delay line. Verbatim from the manual it states: "MC and RC are or'ed in U61, with the output on pin 8 being applied to U71. U71 is a delay line with outputs which reproduce MC+ RC delayed by 100 nsec (pin 14), 150 nsec (pin 4), 250 nsec (pin 12) and 350 nsec (pin 6). This is a passive delay line consisting of LC sections and TTL drivers built into the input and output lines". I hope this helps. Unfortunately this is one of the Processor Tech manuals that doesn't seem to be in PDF format on Bob Stek's site. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From coredump at gifford.co.uk Thu Aug 29 15:45:01 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: id this Data I/O part References: <3.0.6.16.20020829160242.5d2fe66e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3D6E8744.B79721C1@gifford.co.uk> Joe wrote: > I found a small circuit board marked "Data I/O", "702-1072" and > "Plug in Adapter". > There is also a paper label on the board that says "910-1347-1 E". I've got one with "715-1398" and "Socket Adaptor". Mine is an adaptor for TI 2716 EPROMs in a Data I/O 29A EPROM programmer. > It has two 16 pin DIP ICs on it. I can't see their part numbers > because they have paper labels on them. They may be PALs. Many manufacturers added paper labels to PALs after programming them. > The board mounts using three metal standoffs and has a row of > 14 pins along the left and right hand edges. Making 28 pins in all? 0.6inches apart? Or wider than that (mine's wider)? As if to fit into an EPROM socket? > Can anyone tell me what it is? I think it's an add-on for a Data I/O EPROM programmer. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Aug 29 15:46:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: Need PC-AT "keyboard BIOS" docs References: Message-ID: <3D6E8726.4060601@jetnet.ab.ca> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, J.C. Wren wrote: > > >>While time has been a constraint, I've been mentally designing a similar >>concept device for Sinclair 1000s and ZX-81. A device with a 2 x 16 LCD, >>an MMC card, and a micro that would allow saving and loading of programs >>to the MMC instead of cassette tape. You'd be able to enter the filename >>on the LCD, or perhaps use a TSR on the ZX81 to assign a program name >>prior to the save. Then you could copy the MMC card on a Windows/Linux >>machine (DOS format filesystem), and swap cards with your friends. > > > Cool idea. I'd buy one :) Same here if it does serial as well. From ipscone at msdsite.com Thu Aug 29 16:42:01 2002 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: CP/M 1.3 Question In-Reply-To: References: <3D6D1558.25674.5A1287@localhost> Message-ID: <3D6E30DE.29307.4ADC1C2@localhost> Not sure if I asked this to the list but I have a version (1.35) of CP/M. On that floppy there is a version of PIP that does not act like the manual. Of course I'm using a 2.2 manual, which is a newer version. I'm trying to copy some files from one disk to another but this PIP does not seem to have any multiple file copy. I tried: PIP B:=A:*.* per the instructions and get a filename error. It's real tedious copying each file, one-by-one. The other thing that I wonder about is that there does not seem to be any allownace for file types on the version that I'm using. I tried some of the text vs binary options and it won't accept them. Anyone know if these are necessary when doing disk copys? The files seem to run ok when copied. I have not been able to find any manuals for this version on the internet anywhere. I have checked the CP/M archives but no go. Thanks, From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Aug 29 16:53:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: id this Data I/O part In-Reply-To: <3D6E8744.B79721C1@gifford.co.uk> References: <3.0.6.16.20020829160242.5d2fe66e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020829175510.472f8e90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:42 PM 8/29/02 +0100, John wrote: > >Joe wrote: >> I found a small circuit board marked "Data I/O", "702-1072" and >> "Plug in Adapter". >> There is also a paper label on the board that says "910-1347-1 E". > >I've got one with "715-1398" and "Socket Adaptor". Mine is an >adaptor for TI 2716 EPROMs in a Data I/O 29A EPROM programmer. > >> It has two 16 pin DIP ICs on it. I can't see their part numbers >> because they have paper labels on them. > >They may be PALs. Many manufacturers added paper labels to PALs >after programming them. > >> The board mounts using three metal standoffs and has a row of >> 14 pins along the left and right hand edges. > >Making 28 pins in all? Yes. > 0.6inches apart? The pins are .1 apart but the two rows are about 2 inches apart. This is NOT made to fit into a LSI IC socket! Or wider than that (mine's >wider)? As if to fit into an EPROM socket? Much wider. About two inches wide and there are three metal standoffs that stick down about an inch and they're also located BETWEEN the rows of pins so it definitely can't fit into a single socket. > >> Can anyone tell me what it is? > >I think it's an add-on for a Data I/O EPROM programmer. I guessed that much :-) Joe > >-- >John Honniball >coredump@gifford.co.uk > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Aug 29 17:07:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: SGI Indigo.. In-Reply-To: cvisors@carnagevisors.net "Re: SGI Indigo.." (Aug 30, 1:01) References: Message-ID: <10208292309.ZM17667@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Aug 30, 1:01, cvisors@carnagevisors.net wrote: > Thanks for all of this information, it looks as if the mouse, which looks > like the right sort of mouse, is one of the mice used for the Indigo2. > Which unfortunatly is a PS/2 mouse, the person I got the indigo from, > though is going to have a bit of a poke round and see if he can find the > original mouse. Its from a university who are pretty anal about keeping > all of these things together. so hopefully it will turn up.. Maybe this will help: there are basically 4 mice that have been used on SGIs. Some early 4D's used an optical mouse made by Mouse Systems, rather rectangular in shape; it's possible to convert some old Sun optical mice to SGI use and vice-versa (see the 4DFAQ aka "This Old SGI" for details). BTW, having the mouse work correctly on one axis but not the other is a common symptom of using a mouse pad with the wrong line spacing. Some people have in the past incorrectly attributed this to "one of the LEDs not working", but in fact the perceived non-illumination is because one LED is visible red and the other is infrared. Most Personal Irises and the original Indigo (both R3000 and R4000 models) use a Mouse Systems mechanical mouse, which has a 6-pin miniDIN that plugs into the keyboard. This is basically a serial mouse. It's a beige colour, same as the keyboard, with about 32" of cable, part no 9150800. Benjamin, are you sure you've not misread the last digit? I've checked half-a-dozen mice in case I had any variants... The Indigo^2, Indy, and later machines use a PS/2 type mouse, also 6-pin miniDIN, which plugs into the machine (which has two PS/2 ports, one for the mouse and one for the keyboard). The first ones were made by Mouse Systems and look just like the earlier Indigo serial mice, except that they are normally granite (grey) in colour, have a much longer cable -- about 105" -- and a different part number: 063-0001-001. The very earliest ones, however, were beige (the earliest Indy keyboards were beige). Later Indys, and O2/Octane/Origin/Onyx2 and the like, were sold with a PS/2 mouse made by Logitek. It's a rebadged 3-button Pilot mouse (equivalent Logitek type M-S35), also granite coloured, part no 063-0009-001. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Aug 29 17:19:00 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: SGI Indigo.. In-Reply-To: <10208292309.ZM17667@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10208292309.ZM17667@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: >Later Indys, and O2/Octane/Origin/Onyx2 and the like, were sold with a PS/2 >mouse made by Logitek. It's a rebadged 3-button Pilot mouse (equivalent >Logitek type M-S35), also granite coloured, part no 063-0009-001. I also have a rebadged Logitech mouse, model# M-S43, SGI part# 063-0010-001, that is dark gray, almost black in color. It's PS/2 and I've used it on my Indigo2 in place of the granite 063-0009-001, which I also have. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Aug 29 18:05:01 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: SGI Indigo.. In-Reply-To: References: <10208292309.ZM17667@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: While on the topic of SGI stuff....here's an Iris 4D/210GTX that popped up on eBay. It's located in Denver. As usual, no affiliation with the auction, I'm just passing it on. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2049721757 Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Aug 29 18:32:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: SGI Indigo.. In-Reply-To: Jeff Hellige "Re: SGI Indigo.." (Aug 29, 18:19) References: <10208292309.ZM17667@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <10208300033.ZM17790@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Aug 29, 18:19, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >Later Indys, and O2/Octane/Origin/Onyx2 and the like, were sold with a PS/2 > >mouse made by Logitek. It's a rebadged 3-button Pilot mouse (equivalent > >Logitek type M-S35), also granite coloured, part no 063-0009-001. > > I also have a rebadged Logitech mouse, model# M-S43, SGI > part# 063-0010-001, that is dark gray, almost black in color. It's > PS/2 and I've used it on my Indigo2 in place of the granite > 063-0009-001, which I also have. Unusual. Any idea what it was originally for? Do you know if there was a matching keyboard? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Aug 29 18:38:00 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: Vintage chat software still available, and help for it Message-ID: <001001c24fb5$5761d760$023ca8c0@blafleur> I think my last message regarding this was in HTML format, so maybe some people didn't read it. Anyway, I apologize for sending the HTML message. I am making my "vintage" chat software available for anyone to use. If you'd like an account, send me an E-mail and I'll create one for you and send you instructions on how to access the system via Telnet. Below is the help from it, so you can decide if this interests you or not. This is "vintage" software because it predates the internet (as we know it), IRC, etc. and is from the era of the CompuServe "CB" simulator, etc. Send an E-mail to bob_lafleur@technologist.com if you'd like access! - Bob ----- 1: /help For more information, enter one of the following: /COMMANDS for a list of TALK commands. /HELP,introduction for an introduction to TALK. /HELP,commands for an explanation of the TALK commands. /HELP,flags for an explanation of the TALK flags. /HELP,messages for an explanation of the TALK status messages. /HELP,summary for a TALK command summary. /HELP,author if you are curious. /HELP,command name for help on a command. Do not include the '/'. 1: /help intro TALK is a program that allows you to interactively exchange messages with other users. Each user enters his message, and all users in his 'conference' can read what he was written. Also, a user may direct a message to a specific user. In this case, the message is referred to as a 'private' message, as it is private between the two users. When you enter TALK, you are asked to enter your nickname. This is the name that other users will refer to you as. You may use your real name, or you may use a nickname of some sort. TALK has two modes of operation: Single-line mode and Essay mode. In single line mode, you can send a one line message at a time. Simply type the line and press the key, and everyone in your conference will see your message. You will receive messages from other users at any time when you have not typed anything on a line. In Essay mode, you may enter multiple-line messages. You may also direct your message to a specific user, whether he/she is in your conference or a different one. When you want to send your message, you can either press on a blank line, or use the /SEND command. TALK has special commands which allow you to perform functions other than sending messages. A TALK command starts with a '/' (slash) character, followed by the command name. Some commands need parameters to tell the command what to do. If the command needs parameters, use a ',' (comma) to separate the command and its parameters. TALK supports multiple 'conferences'. A conference is a place where a group of users get together and talk about a specific subject. When you first enter TALK, you are put into the conference 'Limbo'. Limbo is a conference that always exists and is a conference for general use. You can create your own conference with the /CREATE command. The person who creates a conference becomes the conference controller for that conference. If they leave the conference, then there is no conference controller and anyone else in the conference may become the controller. The conference controller has the ability to perform specific tasks relating to their conference, such as putting a password on it so that only users who know the password may join. Use the command /HELP to get information about the various TALK features. Use /HELP,COMMANDS to get help on all the commands. 1: /help commands The following commands are valid while using talk. The command names are shown in uppercase only to stress that they are TALK commands; You may use upper, lower, or mixed case for the commands. Parameters shown in square brackets ([ ]) are optional and are not always required. /CREATE,conf name[,password] /MAKE,conf name[,password] These commands create a conference and make you the controller. If you supply a password, then the conference is locked and only those who use the password may join it. Note that upper and lowercase in passwords is significant. If you write an essay before creating the conference, the essay will be used as the conference description which may be viewed by using the /DESCRIBE command. /GOTO,conf name[,password] This command moves you to a new conference. If the conference is locked, you must supply the correct password. Note that upper and lower case in passwords is significant. /JOIN,user name[,password] This command moves you to the conference where the user you specify is. If the conference is locked, you must specify the conference password. /MODERATE This command will cause the conference to become a moderated conference. In a moderated conference, only the controller and those designated by the controller are allowed to speak publically. There is also a speak request queue to allow users to enter a request to speak. Related commands are /ALLOW, /DISALLOW, /SPEAK and /NEXT. /UNMODERATE This command returns the conference to the normal, unmoderated status. /ALLOW,user name This command will allow the conference controller of a moderated conference to give a user the privelege to speak publically. This can be used to allow guest speakers to speak freely. /DISALLOW,user name /SILENCE,user name These commands will take away the privelge to speak freely from a user within a moderated conference. Only the conference controller may issue this command. /ENABLEQ The conference controller can use this command to open the speaker request queue for entries. If the queue is not enables, users cannot use the /SPEAK command to request a turn to speak. /DISABLEQ This command allows the controller to close the speaker request queue to any further /SPEAK commands. /SPEAK Enteres a request into the speaker queue in a moderated conference. If you have been designated as a speaker by the conference controller you do not need to (and cannot) use the command. /QUEUE This command will display the speaker request queue in a moderated conference. /NEXT This command allows the controller of a moderated conference to give the next person in the speaker request queue their turn to speak. The current speaker in the queue (if there is one) will automatically be silenced. /DESCRIBE[,conf name] This command will display the description of a conference that you specify. If you do not specify a conference name, the conference you are in will be described. /NEWDESC This command allows you to create a new description for your confer- ence. Create an essay, and instead of sending it, use the /NEWDESC command. You must be the conference controller to use this command. if there is no conference controller, you will be come the controller. /RENAME,new name This command will change the current conference name to the new name specified. You must be the conference controller to use this command. If there is no controller, you will become the controller. /MONITOR[,conf name[,password]] This command allows you to monitor another conference. The members of the other conference will be aware that you are monitoring their conference. If you want to monitor a locked conference, you must specify the conference password. If you do not specify any conference name, monitoring will be shut off. You can only monitor one conference at a time. /EAVESDROP[,user name[,password]] This command allows you to monitor anotehr user's messages. The user will not be aware that you are monitoring their messages. If you want to eavesdrop on a user that is in a locked conference, you must supply the correct password for that conference. If you don't specify any user name, eavesdropping will be shut off. Note that you can only eavesdrop on one user at a time, and you can only read that user's public messages, NOT their private ones. /SQUELCH[,user name] Squelching allows you to ignore public and private messages from selected users. If you do not specify a user name, a list of the current users you have squelched will be shown. /UNSQUELCH,user name This command allows you to resume receiving messages from a user that you have previously squelched. /ALERT[,system name] This command will set up an alert to tell you when the specified user enters TALK. If you do not specify a user name, the current alert will be cancelled. You may only have one active alert at a time. Once you have received your alert, the alert will auto- matically be cancelled. /NOTIFY[,user name] This command will set up a 'notify' to tell you when the specified user logs onto the VAX. If you do not specify a user name, the current notify will be cancelled. You may only have one active notify at a time. Once you have received your notify, the notify will automatically be cancelled. /CALL,user name[,message] This command will notify the user specified that they are being requested to join TALK by you. You can also include an optional message that will appear on the second line of the call. If you use an optional message of asterisk (*), a message telling the user how to enter the TALK system will be displayed. /LOCK,password With this command, you can lock a conference. You can only lock a conference if you are the conference controller, or if no one is the conference controller. If no one is the conference controller then you will be made the conference controller upon locking the conference. If the conference is already locked, using the /LOCK command will change the password users must supply to enter the conference. /UNLOCK This command will unlock a locked conference. You can only unlock a locked conference if you are the conference controller, or if no one is the conference controller. If no one is the conference controller, you will be made the controller upon using the /UNLOCK command. /TRANSCRIBE[,file name] This command will cause all the public conversations in the current conference to be transcribed to the specified file. If you do not speicfy a file name, the current transcription will be stopped. Each conference may only have one transcription active at a time, and only the creator of the transcription may stop it. If you start a tran- scription and then exit TALK, that transcription will remain active until the conference is dispersed. /EVICT,user name This command allows the conference controller to evict a user from his conference. The user that is evicted is placed in the Limbo conference. You may only evict someone if you are the conference controller, or if there is no controller of your conference. You cannot evict anyone from Limbo. /NOMONITOR If any users are monitoring your conference, this command will turn their monitoring off. You may only issue this command if you are the conference controller or if there is no conference control- ler. If there is no conference controller, you will become the controller. This command is useful if you wish to isolate your conference from the public. First, use the /LOCK command to give your conference a password, then use the /NOMONITOR command to insure that no users are currently monitoring it. Any users who subsequently wish to join or monitor your connference will need to supply the correct password. /RELINQUISH This command allows you to give up control of your conference. Once you relinquish control, anyone else may become the conference controller. /CONTROL This command will allow you to take control of a conference if there is no controller. /ESSAY This command puts you into 'essay' mode, where you may write a multi-line message. Send the message with a blank line or with the /SEND command. /LIST This command lists your current essay on the screen. It is useful if you have received some messages and lost track of what you were saying. /CANCEL /KILL This command will erase your current essay. /SEND[,user name] This command will send your 'essay'. If you specify a user name your message will be sent to only that person. If you do not specify a user name, your message will be sent to everyone in your conference. /RESEND[,user name] This command works exactly like /SEND except that it re-sends your last 'essay'. If you have entered at least one line of a new 'essay', this command will not work. /WHISPER,user name This command will send your 'essay' to a specific user. Only the user you specify will receive the message. /TO[,user name] This command will direct the current message to the specified user when it is sent with the /SEND command or a blank line. Specifying a name on the /SEND or /WHISPER command will override the /TO setting. Use /TO with no parameter to clear the setting. /TO is only active for the current essay, and is reset when the essay is sent. /REPLY This command will initiate the sending of a private message to the sender of the last whisper message you received. After issuing the /REPLY command, you will receive a message telling who the message will be directed to. Enter your message, and press on a blank line, and the message will be sent. If the message is not directed to the person that you wished, use the /SEND or /WHISPER, or /TO commands to direct your message to the proper place. /HOLD This command will take your current essay and place it on hold. You may continue to talk, as usual. When you would like to retreive the essay you have on hold, use the /UNHOLD command. /UNHOLD This command will take the essay you have placed on hold and restore it as your current essay. The hold buffer is cleared. /USERS[,conf name] This command will show you the users on TALK. If a conference name is specified, only the users in that conference will be shown. A conference name of * will cause a list of users in your curent conference to be displayed. /SUMMARY This command is similar to /USERS, but in a more abbreviated form. /CONFLIST This command prints a short list of all the current conferences with the number of users in each. /PANEL In a moderated conference, this command will display a list of all the users who are allowed to speak. /COMMANDS This command gives a brief listing of all the TALK commands. /LOG[,number] This command displays TALK's userlog. This log shows the users that have used TALK in the past. Specify the number of entries you would like to be displayed. If you do not specify a number, the entire log will be displayed. /NEWS This command will display any news about Talk that has been posted by the system manager. /FACE[,face style] This command will allow you to change your face style displayed with your messages. Use the /FACE,LIST command to get a list of the allowable face styles, or /FACE to clear your face style. /NAME,new name This command allows you to change your nickname. Specify your new name as the parameter to the command. /COMMENT[,comment] Sets a comment to be displayed with every status message from you. If you don't supply a comment, your current comment will be cleared. /STATUS This command will show you a detailed status and description about your current session on TALK. /ACTIVITY This command will show you an activity summary of the TALK system since it was last started. /LIMITS Displays Talk's current limits. These limits are set by the system manager. /CLS This command will clear your terminal screen. If you have the ansicrt flag set, the ANSI sequence will be used to clear your screen, otherwise blank lines will be used to scroll your screen. /MAIL[,vax user[,subject]] This command will allow you to access the VAXmail system. If you do not specify any parameters, you will be placed directly into VAXmail. When you exit from VAXmail, you will return to TALK without losing any messages sent to you. If you specify a VAX username, your current essay will be mailed to that user. You can optionally specify a subject to be attached to your message. /DCL[,command] This command will allow you to access DCL. If you specify a command that command will be executed as if you entered it at the DCL prompt. If you do not specify a command, you will get the DCL prompt. You return to TALK with the LOGOUT command. /GRIPE This command will use your current essay as a gripe message. It will be sent to the person responsible for handing gripes about TALK. You can also use the /GRIPE command for compliments or suggestions regarding the TALK system. /SHOW[,flag name] This command will display you flag settings. If you supply a flag name, that flag's setting will be displayed. Otherwise, all flag settings will be displayed. /SET,flag name This command sets (turns on) the flag you specify. /CLEAR,flag name This command clears (turns off) the flag you specify. /BYE[,comment] /DONE[,comment] /EXIT[,comment] /QUIT[,comment] Any of these commands will exit you from talk. If you specify a comment, it will be displayed in the log next to your name. 1: /help flags You may set or clear certain 'flags' which allow you to customize TALK to your personal preferences. Use the /SET command to set a flag (turn it on) and the /CLEAR command to clear a flag (turn it off). The following are descriptions of the flags you can use: alarm With this flag set, you will hear a beep every time you receive a message from a user. This flag can be useful if the conversation on TALK is slow and you want to look away from the screen while waiting for a message. ansicrt Set this flag if you have an ANSI compatable terminal (such as a VT100, VT220, Visual 102, etc). This will allow TALK to take advantage of your terminal's special features. >NOT FULLY IMPLEMENTED IN THIS VERSION< autoact This flag will cause an /ACTIVITY comamnd to be executed you enter TALK. autoflags This flag will cause your current flag settings to be shown when you enter TALK. It is the equivalent of doing a /SHOW command when you enter TALK. autousers This flag will cause a /USERS command to be executed when you enter TALK. autosum This flag will cause a /SUMMARY command to be executed when you enter Talk. clock This flag controls weather the time is displayed next to received messages. With this flag set, the time will be shown. With this flag clear, the time will not be shown. essaylock This flag will cause you to permanently stay in essay mode, as if you had typed /ESSAY after each message. To get out of this mode, use /CLEAR,essaylock. faces Setting this flag will show the face next to the sender's name in a message. Clearing this flag will cause the faces to be shown only in the /users command. fullessay If this flag is set, you will not be interrupted with messages until you have finished a full essay and sent it. If this flag is clear, you will be able to receive messages inbetween lines of an essay. Note that you will never receive messages while you are in the middle of typing a line. hearbells When set, this flag allows bell characters to be heard on the terminal. Clearing this flag will permit quiet operation of TALK. invisible Setting this flag will allow you to be invisible while inside a locked conference. If you are the conference controller, you will always be seen. noecho If you would like to put your terminal in local echo mode, setting this flag will cause Talk to stop echoing the characters you type. With this flag clear, Talk will echo all the characters you type. privates Setting this flag will allow you to receive private or whisper messages send with the /WHISPER or /SEND commands. Clearing this flag will not allow you to receive any of these messages. prompt The prompt flag will cause TALK to give you prompts for each line of input. In 'Essay' mode you will get a prompt telling you which line you are on. Otherwise you will get a '>' prompt. If you set the prompt flag off, you will not get any prompts for input. readown Setting this flag will allow you to see your own messages that you send. With this flag set, you can see how your messages look within the context of all the other users' messages. Note that you will not see messages which you direct at a specific user with the /SEND command. seebells This flag will show bells as on the terminal. It is useful if the hearbells flag is cleared. Note that this flag does not affect the sounding of bells on the terminal. singlesp With some terminals, writing essays with prompt clear will cause the essay to appear double space. Set this flag if your essays appear double spaceed with prompt clear, then set this flag. Otherwise, leave it clear. verbose This flag will cause TALK to display a more wordy form of it's messages. watch This flag allows you to watch who enters and leaves Talk. wordwrap Setting this flag while in essay mode will wrap words around to the next line as you are typing. 1: /help mess At times throughout a TALK session, you may see 'status' messages from a user. A status message has the form: < message > user name where 'message' gives the status for the user 'user name'. The following is a list of possible status messages: < Entering > The user is entering the TALK system. < Leaving > The user is leaving the TALK system. < Joining > The user is joining your conference from another one. < Moving > The user is leaving your conference and moving to another one. < Moderating > The user has changed the conference into moderated status. Users may not speak publically unless designated by the controller. < Unmoderating > The confernce has been returned to normal, unmoderated status. < Speaker > The user has been designated as a speaker by the conference controller. The user may speak publically until silenced. < Silenced > The user may no longer speak publically within the moderated conference. < Logged In > The user was the one you specified in a /NOTIFY command and the user has logged into the VAX. < Monitoring > The user is monitoring your conference. He can read all the messages (except for private messages) which are sent in your conference. < Not Monitoring > The user is not monitoring your conference anymore. < Evicted > This means that the user has been evicted or 'kicked' out of the conference by the conference controller. The user that is evicted is moved to Limbo. < Locking > This message means that the conference controller has locked the conference. If the conference was already locked, then he is changing the password. < Unlocking > This means that the conference controller has unlocked the conference. The conference is now available for public access. < Ghosted Out > This means that the user has somehow left TALK by not going through the normal means. TALK has just discovered that this person is no longer using TALK, so they are 'ghosted out'. < Timed Out > This means that the user has timed out of Talk. < Controlling > The user has taken control of the conference. < Relinquishing > This means that the user is relinquishing control of his conference. < Comment > The user has changed their comment. 1: /help sum /ACTIVITY Show an activity summary of TALK /ALERT[,system name] Alert when user enters TALK /ALLOW,user name Allow a user to speak /BYE[,comment] Exit TALK /CALL,user name[,message] Call a user to TALK /CANCEL Erase current essay /CLEAR,flag name Clear a flag /CLS Clear terminal screen /COMMANDS Lists TALK commands /COMMENT Sets up a comment for display /CONFLIST Display a list of available conferences /CONTROL Take control of the conference /CREATE,conf name[,password] Create a conference /DCL[,command] Access DCL from TALK /DESCRIBE[,conf name] Print a conference description /DISABLEQ Disables the speaker request queue /DISALLOW,user name Disallow a user to speak /DONE[,comment] Exit TALK /EAVESDROP[user name[,password]] Eavesdrop on a usewr /ENABLEQ Enables the speaker request queue. /ESSAY Enter a multi-line message /EVICT,user name Evict a user from a conference /EXIT[,comment] Exit TALK /FACE[,style] Change face style /GOTO,conf name[,password] Goto a conference /GRIPE Submit a gripe about TALK. /HOLD Puts the current essay on hold. /JOIN,user name[,password] Join a user in a conference /KILL Erase current essay /LIMITS Displays Talk's current limits. /LIST List current essay /LOCK,password Lock a conference /LOG[,number] Display userlog /MAIL[,vax user[,subject]] Access the VAXmail system /MAKE,conf name[,password] Create a conference /MODERATE Make the current conference moderated /MONITOR[,conf name[,password]] Monitor a conference /NAME,new name Change nickname /NEXT Let the next person in the queue speak /NEWS Shows Talk news /NODES Shows a list of nodes linked to Talk. /NOMONITOR Stop users from monitoring conference. /NOTIFY[,vax username] Notify when user logs into VAX /PANEL Display a list of the speaking panel /QUEUE Display the speaker request queue /QUIT[,comment] Exit TALK /RELINQUISH Relinquish control of your conference /RENAME Give the conference a new name /REPLY Reply to the last private message /RESEND[,user name] Resend last multi-line message /SEND[,user name] Send a multi-line message /SET,flag name Set a flag /SHOW[,flag name] Show flag settings /SILENCE,user name Disallow a user to speak /SPEAK Enter a request into the speaker queue /SQUELCH[,user name] Squelch (ignore) a user /STATUS Show status about yourself. /SUMMARY Show a summary of Talk users /TO[,user name] Direct a message to a user /TRANSCRIBE[,file name] Transcribe conference to file /UNHOLD Take essay off hold /UNLOCK Unlock a conference /UNMODERATE Unmoderates the conference /UNSQUELCH,user name Unsquelch a user /USERS[,conf name] Show users on TALK /WHISPER,user name Send a message to a specific user 1: /help auth TALK was written in VAX C by Bob Lafleur. TALK was inspired from my use of many 'TALK' systems, including, but not limited to 'TALK', 'Twinkle' and 'Confer' at U-Mass/Amherst, 'DIALOG' by Mike Hurst, and CompuServe's CB Simulator. I would also like to thank the users of Dataseek in Houston, Texas during the summer of 1988 for their unlimited ideas. If you have any ideas for this TALK program, please send them to me, as I am continually interested in making this program the BEST talk program around! I can be contacted at: Bob Lafleur 45 Ionia Street Springfield, MA 01109-2519 Phone: (413) 737-8503 CompuServe: 75146,3122 GEnie: SKID Internet: 75146.3122@CompuServe.COM bob@nq1c.ampr.org (IP address 44.44.0.35) Packet: NQ1C @ W1NY.MA.USA.NA Enjoy! 1: /commands /activity /allow /bye /call /clear /cancel /cls /commands /comment /control /conflist /create /dcl /describe /disableque /disallow /done /eavesdrop /enableque /essay /evict /exit /face /goto /gripe /help /hold /join /kill /limits /list /lock /log /mail /make /moderate /monitor /name /newdesc /news /next /nodes /nomonitor /panel /queue /quit /relinquish /rename /reply /resend /send /set /show /silence /speak /squelch /status /summary /to /transcribe /unhold /unlock /unmoderate /unsquelch /users /whisper 1: From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Aug 29 19:07:00 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: SGI Indigo.. In-Reply-To: <10208300033.ZM17790@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10208292309.ZM17667@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <10208300033.ZM17790@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: > > I also have a rebadged Logitech mouse, model# M-S43, SGI > > part# 063-0010-001, that is dark gray, almost black in color. It's >> PS/2 and I've used it on my Indigo2 in place of the granite >> 063-0009-001, which I also have. > >Unusual. Any idea what it was originally for? Do you know if there was a >matching keyboard? No idea, as it was included with my Indigo2 when I got it. No matching keyboard, just the standard 9500900. It's not listed on any of the part# lists, such as Jodeman's and I've never been able to find a reference to that particular part# on either the web or Usenet. It does still have the cube logo on the label on the bottom vice the newer style logo. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From rschaefe at gcfn.org Thu Aug 29 19:44:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse' References: <20020829025853.23750.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00b001c24fbe$5dc8daa0$3c00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 10:58 PM Subject: Re: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse' > > --- Robert Schaefer wrote: > > Found a IIc+ the other day at the thrift store, someone screwed up, it > > was only marked $7something. > > Nice. The same afternoon, I came across a ][c, with PS, in an apple-branded soft case. I was pretty excited to see the PS, as the ][c+ was bare, nothing but the box, and snapped up the ][c as well. It wasn't until I got around to trying it out that I realized my error... :) > > > Had a mouse attached to it, and it wasn't until I > > got it home that I noticed it was an optical mouse. Mfgr'd by Mouse > > Systems... It seems that the IIc+ will take the older DE9 style Mac > > mice, so this might be for one of those. > > Didn't know they made them like that. AFAIK, it's possible to swab > pins around and use that with an Amiga, too. I *know* you can make > a pin swabber for an MS Bus Mouse. > > > Does this little guy need a fancy pad? > > I would expect so. They are much rarer than the mice. That's what I was afraid of. If I had some software, I'd try the pad to my sun-whatever optical. You wouldn't happen to know if there's any built-in goodies, would you? > > > Also, any pointers to IIc+ specific > > sites? I'm googling, but I'd appreciate any hints. > > I'd love to hear about them, too. I got my //c+ for $15 at a hamfest, > monitor and Imagewriter and external 5.25" drive included. > > Nice score, Bob. Thanks. > > -ethan Bob From rschaefe at gcfn.org Thu Aug 29 19:46:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse' References: Message-ID: <00b101c24fbe$b52e0db0$3c00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David A. Woyciesjes" To: Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 12:53 PM Subject: Re: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse' > On 08/28/02, Ethan Dicks scribbled: > > > > > --- Robert Schaefer wrote: > > > Had a mouse attached to it, and it wasn't until I > > > got it home that I noticed it was an optical mouse. Mfgr'd by Mouse > > > Systems... It seems that the IIc+ will take the older DE9 style Mac > > > mice, so this might be for one of those. > > > > Does this little guy need a fancy pad? > > > > I would expect so. They are much rarer than the mice. > > > > You know, I do believe I have an extra Mouse Systems metal mouse > pad, that looks a lot like the pad I have for my Sun Optical mouse. I'll > have to check when I get home tonight. > If it's the right nodel number for you, you can have it for > (what's a reasonable price?) plus shipping... Thanks! How can I tell if it's the right one? Currently, I can't even say of the ouse actually works. Bob From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 29 19:56:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse' In-Reply-To: <00b001c24fbe$5dc8daa0$3c00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <20020830005629.33599.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Robert F. Schaefer" wrote: > That's what I was afraid of. If I had some software, I'd try the pad to > my sun-whatever optical. There are two pads used with Sun mice - type 3/4 mice and type 5 mice. You want the older one (coarser grid) > You wouldn't happen to know if there's any built-in > goodies, would you? AFAIK, no, there aren't. You'll need to find a mouse-aware app. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From rschaefe at gcfn.org Thu Aug 29 20:03:01 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse' References: Message-ID: <00b401c24fc1$09b5ff80$3c00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 6:22 AM Subject: Re: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse' > On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Robert Schaefer wrote: > > > Does this little guy need a fancy pad? Also, any pointers to IIc+ specific > > sites? I'm googling, but I'd appreciate any hints. > > The //c+ is simply an Apple //c with a 3.5" drive, a faster 6502 processor > (running somewhere around 3Mhz) and a built-in power supply. > > Any information that deals with the Apple //e will apply to the Apple //c > and //c+. Well, I do know _some_ about the apple ][ line, but I'm looking for more specific things, like how to switch from 4MHz to slow. > > Sellam Ismail Bob From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 29 20:04:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: Need PC-AT "keyboard BIOS" docs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020830010423.51145.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > I am not sure where the term 'keyboard BIOS' came from, but it can go > > > back there :-) > > > > I know it's a pre-programmed microcontroller, but in the U.S., if you > > go to a PeeCee shop, that is what they call it. > > You mean you can actually buy them as loose chips? You have better PC > shops that we do.... I doubt it, especially now that modern motherboards have integrated the keyboard interface. I did not mean to suggest that you could ever buy one loose, but if you brought your machine in for service, that would be how they described where the fault was if the keyboard didn't respond... i.e., "your keyboard BIOS is fried." > I assume you also realise that the 8042 outputs PC keyboard scan codes, > and it's up to you to translate them into characters. This can be done in > hardware (using an EPROM as a lookup table, and some logic to handle > shift/control (you have to detect those scancodes and set/clear > flip-flops for the shift/control status). It's possible, but not trivial. That was the idea - a translator ROM. > Of course there _are_ keyboards with plain async outputs [1] which would > trivially link to the receiver side of your UART, but they are a lot less > common than the PC/AT one. > > [1] Obvious examples : PERQ 2 keyboard, Xerox Daybreak keyboard, DEC > LK201. You'd have to do a bit of hardware interfacing to convert signal > levels, of course... The LK201 emits ASCII not scan codes? Cool. I can handle that (or did you just mean async characters at a reasonable baud rate?) I guess I'll have to track down the docs to them. Converting the signal levels is no big shake. Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 29 20:07:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse' In-Reply-To: <3D6E4CF7.DB14642E@ccp.com> Message-ID: <20020830010703.948.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gary Hildebrand wrote: > > Hey what a deal. I paid 10 for mine which included 5 1/4 drive and color > monitor. Didn't realize until later that it is the hotrod of the Apple > II's. It runs at 4 mHz instead of the usual 1 mHz... I found that out after I got home, too. > and I think you can add memeory up to 512k. Cool... you need an add-in board, or do you pull a bank of 4164s and drop in 41256s? > I'm looking for the LCD display that goes with it, as I'd like to be > able to use it as a cheap and dirty RS232 terminal. I'd like one, too. I don't have one because I've seen them sell for as much as $200. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Aug 29 20:19:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: CP/M 1.3 Question In-Reply-To: <3D6E30DE.29307.4ADC1C2@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, Mike Davis wrote: > Not sure if I asked this to the list but I have a version (1.35) of > CP/M. On that floppy there is a version of PIP that does not act > like the manual. Of course I'm using a 2.2 manual, which is a newer > version. 1.3x is before my time. Hopefully, one of the old-timers will step in. > I tried: PIP B:=A:*.* per the instructions and get a filename error. > It's real tedious copying each file, one-by-one. Try ????????.??? instead of *.* '?' is used for single characters, and groups of them is what '*' gets resolved into. CP/M uses 8.3 filenames. > The other thing that I wonder about is that there does not seem to be > any allownace for file types on the version that I'm using. I tried > some of the text vs binary options and it won't accept them. Anyone > know if these are necessary when doing disk copys? The files seem to > run ok when copied. The only issue with file "type" for a CP/M type system (such as MS-DOS) is going to be whether the system will misunderstand the presence of character #26 as being EOF. If it copied the full length of the file, then it worked. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From red at bears.org Thu Aug 29 20:34:00 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: seeking Sun CG4 Message-ID: The CG4 in my 3/60 seems to have stopped displaying an image. It's still detected by the kernel, and outputs a valid sync signal, but I never get an image on the monitor. I'd like to replace it. If anybody has a spare they can part with, drop me a line. I guess I could also be strongarmed into taking a CG6, but I'd much prefer the CG4 (the CG6 is not supported on SunOS 3.5)... Or? If somebody knows off the top of their head what's wrong with my CG4, I could use advice, instead. (; ok r. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 29 21:11:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: Need PC-AT "keyboard BIOS" docs In-Reply-To: <20020830010423.51145.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Aug 29, 2 06:04:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1243 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020829/3411d961/attachment.ksh From cvisors at carnagevisors.net Thu Aug 29 22:06:00 2002 From: cvisors at carnagevisors.net (cvisors@carnagevisors.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: SGI Indigo.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks for all of this information, another thing, can anyone help me with installing IRIX 6.5 on this machine, unfortunatly, I don't have any of the 5.3 media for this machine, and other than 6.3 (which is O2 specific) I only have 6.5. NB: this is a R4000 Indigo When I go to install IRIX on this machine, it will put the miniroot on to the external drive (set to scsi ID 1, it has No internal drives) also the external scsi cd drive is set to ID 4. When it tries to boot the miniroot it fails, saying something like it can't find the file unix. Any ideas at all? I have sort of Run out of ideas here, I have never had any issues with installing IRIX on my o2. Regards... Benjamin From foo at siconic.com Thu Aug 29 22:26:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse' In-Reply-To: <00b401c24fc1$09b5ff80$3c00a8c0@george> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > Well, I do know _some_ about the apple ][ line, but I'm looking for more > specific things, like how to switch from 4MHz to slow. If I recall correctly, the seminally useless 40/80 column switch on the //c was changed into a processor speed switch on the //c+. Look at the two little diagonal buttons on the left side of the case just above the keyboard. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Aug 29 22:48:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: CoCo Floppies: Was:These darned old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > I asusme that;s 720K... If you can get 720M on a 3.5" floppy then I want > to see it :-) LS120 is a start towards that. (about 100 honest meg) > Incidentally, has any manufacturer been 'cheap' enough to miss out the > sensor on a modern 1.44M drive, assuming that all disks will be 1.44M? I > could well believe it happening... Original PS/2 (look for size identification written on the eject button) 'course there are some that wouldn't call anything "modern" unless it runs XP. From cvisors at carnagevisors.net Thu Aug 29 23:48:01 2002 From: cvisors at carnagevisors.net (cvisors@carnagevisors.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:24:59 2005 Subject: SGI Indigo.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 cvisors@carnagevisors.net wrote: > Thanks for all of this information, > another thing, can anyone help me with installing IRIX 6.5 on this > machine, unfortunatly, I don't have any of the 5.3 media for this machine, > and other than 6.3 (which is O2 specific) I only have 6.5. > > NB: this is a R4000 Indigo > > When I go to install IRIX on this machine, it will put the miniroot on to > the external drive (set to scsi ID 1, it has No internal drives) also the > external scsi cd drive is set to ID 4. When it tries to boot the miniroot > it fails, saying something like it can't find the file unix. Any ideas at > all? I have sort of Run out of ideas here, I have never had any issues > with installing IRIX on my o2. > > Regards... > > > Benjamin > > Argh Replying to my own messages now... Anyway I have had some sucess, looked round on the net, and found via that wonderfull thing google groups, a recomendation to low level format the drive if one has the problems that I have had. NB: it did come with a warning that it could ruin the disk. Anyway after 85 mins or so of low level formatting, it set up the drive, and all is good.. The install is a little on the slow side, but hopefully that shouldn't be too much of a problem. Now another quick question if I may, is it possible to use 4DWM without a mouse, so I can set this machine up on my network, or would going via a text terminal be the best way? and if I use a text terminal (VT400) how do I go about setting up the IP address and the like on this machine? Thanks again BEnjamin From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 30 00:50:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: Need PC-AT "keyboard BIOS" docs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020830055000.58249.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > Of course there _are_ keyboards with plain async outputs... > > How exactly is your board designed? Is the UART on the host bus (Omnibus > IIRC), or is there a CPU in the way? If the latter, then I really would > consider using that CPU to help with the keyboard interfacing. The UART is local to the 68000 which sits on the OMNIBUS. Since I have the circuit diagrams and licenses to real Qbus and Unibus and VAXBI peripheral boards based on the 68000, I was thinking of adapting the design to the OMNIBUS. The 68K sits there and does single-cycle databreak and/or programmed I/O to the OMNIBUS, but listens to any IOTs I tell it to. It has a modern disk interface and perhaps a spare serial port. Its primary serial port would have a serial LCD or VFD display for status (and maybe blinkenlights), and accept a keyboard for simple, local monitoring, debugging and configuration. I want to use an available, inexpensive keyboard. Given the design so far, either taking a real 8042 from an old PeeCee or using an LK201 are acceptable keyboard designs. I could just use a dumb terminal (or PeeCee running a terminal package), but I wanted something small and dedicated for doing input to the 68000. I'll have a dedicated display for its output (I have several PD3000 "Pole Displays" - 2x20 VFDs from cash registers/tills) Essentially, I'm envisioning a user-definable I/O peripheral. It behaves like any device you ask it to. I'm trying to decide ATA/IDE vs SCSI and am thinking of both. With IDE, it can use flash cards (I have adapter frames) and inexpensive modern disks. With SCSI, it can use inexpensive modern disks, including removables like SyQuest drives (have more than one). It's a design I've been kicking around in my head for a while. I have a DataSystem 310 desk and -8/a arriving in a few weeks. It's enough to put my brain back in OMNIBUS mode. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Aug 30 01:05:00 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 Date Change - October 26-27 References: Message-ID: <006301c24feb$3a1e2c40$863ecd18@D73KSM11> > Please note that the dates for Vintage Computer Festival 5.0 have > changed. The new dates are October 26th and 27th, 2002. Please > make a note of this in your calendar. > > The location of VCF 5.0 is still the Santa Clara Convention Center > in Santa Clara, California. > > Again, the new dates for VCF 5.0 are October 26th and 27th. > > Further information about VCF 5.0 can be found on the Vintage > Computer Festival wesbite: > > http://www.vintage.org/2002/main/ > It would be great if as many of us on the list as possible -- especially those near the west coast -- could actively support this event. It's a great time and a good opportunity to meet other collectors, attend interesting talks and see some great working machines. I'll never forget Jim Willing "smoking" his Polymorphic 8813 during his talk at VCF 4.0! (Fortunately, no one was injured.) It's also a tremendous opportunity to show off the pride of your collection in an exhibit -- and I think that this year in particular exhibits are needed. I've exhibited some IBM portables at the last two VCFs and it's been a lot of fun. So, see you all there! -W From sipke at wxs.nl Fri Aug 30 03:29:01 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: CP/M 1.3 Question References: <3D6D1558.25674.5A1287@localhost> <3D6E30DE.29307.4ADC1C2@localhost> Message-ID: <017e01c24fff$64d487e0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> In the ol' days "version updates" served a real tangible purpose. Nowadays it's like trading new bugs for old .........................M$#&^%$! IIRC CP/M2.2 introduced the Ambigues Filenames that we now call Wildcards............. Sipke de Wal ------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Davis" To: Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 11:34 PM Subject: CP/M 1.3 Question > Not sure if I asked this to the list but I have a version (1.35) of > CP/M. On that floppy there is a version of PIP that does not act > like the manual. Of course I'm using a 2.2 manual, which is a newer > version. > > I'm trying to copy some files from one disk to another but this PIP > does not seem to have any multiple file copy. > > I tried: PIP B:=A:*.* per the instructions and get a filename error. > It's real tedious copying each file, one-by-one. > > The other thing that I wonder about is that there does not seem to be > any allownace for file types on the version that I'm using. I tried > some of the text vs binary options and it won't accept them. Anyone > know if these are necessary when doing disk copys? The files seem to > run ok when copied. > > I have not been able to find any manuals for this version on the > internet anywhere. I have checked the CP/M archives but no go. > > Thanks, From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Aug 30 05:24:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse' References: Message-ID: <001401c2500f$65bcd1c0$3c00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 3:25 PM Subject: Re: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse' > On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > > > Well, I do know _some_ about the apple ][ line, but I'm looking for more > > specific things, like how to switch from 4MHz to slow. > > If I recall correctly, the seminally useless 40/80 column switch on the > //c was changed into a processor speed switch on the //c+. Look at the > two little diagonal buttons on the left side of the case just above the > keyboard. Replaced with a volume slider. I had to check right away, because it'd be just like be to miss something so hard to find as a knob on the top... ;) Somewhere I know I saw how to do it, but as I never planned on finding a ][c+, I didn't bother to rememeber. :/ > > Sellam Ismail Bob From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Aug 30 08:40:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: seeking Sun CG4 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020830094000.349f9eca@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Bear, I'm not famoilar with the bigger Suns so you'll have to tell me how to tell how to id a DG4. I know where there are two large Sun computers at the moment. I believe one is a 2/60 but I'm not sure what the other is. Joe At 09:34 PM 8/29/02 -0400, you wrote: > >The CG4 in my 3/60 seems to have stopped displaying an image. It's still >detected by the kernel, and outputs a valid sync signal, but I never get >an image on the monitor. > >I'd like to replace it. If anybody has a spare they can part with, drop me >a line. I guess I could also be strongarmed into taking a CG6, but I'd >much prefer the CG4 (the CG6 is not supported on SunOS 3.5)... > >Or? If somebody knows off the top of their head what's wrong with my >CG4, I could use advice, instead. (; > >ok >r. > > From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri Aug 30 09:02:00 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse' Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467B42@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > --- Robert Schaefer wrote: > Had a mouse attached to it, and it wasn't until I > got it home that I noticed it was an optical mouse. > Mfgr'd by Mouse > Systems... It seems that the IIc+ will take the older > DE9 style Mac > mice, so this might be for one of those. > > Does this little guy need a fancy pad? > --- On 08/28/02, Ethan Dicks scribbled: > I would expect so. They are much rarer than the mice. > --- From: "David A. Woyciesjes" > You know, I do believe I have an extra Mouse Systems metal mouse > pad, that looks a lot like the pad I have for my Sun > Optical mouse. I'll > have to check when I get home tonight. > If it's the right nodel number for you, you can have it for > (what's a reasonable price?) plus shipping... > --- From: Robert F. Schaefer > Thanks! How can I tell if it's the right one? Currently, I > can't even say if the mouse actually works. Well, I have the pad, which has NDY 402631-001 on a sticker on the back. It's 7.75" wide by 7" high. about 0.5" smaller, in both directions, than my Sun Optical mouse pad. Hmmm, there are a couple scratches on the right side... Well, considering how old it probably is... (...and, in another message...) > --- From: Ethan Dicks > > There are two pads used with Sun mice - type 3/4 mice > and type 5 mice. You want the older one (coarser grid) I didn't even think of comparing that with my Sun pad. From memory, I think this one has a coarser grid, but I'm not positive. Let me crack out my ruler & a magnifying lens... It appears to be 5 lines per every 2mm. My Sun keyboard is a Type 5, But I don't think the optical mouse came with it. I can check the Sun mouse and pad this weekend... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From foo at siconic.com Fri Aug 30 12:33:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: //c+ switch settings, QWERTY/Dvorak (was Re: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse') In-Reply-To: <001401c2500f$65bcd1c0$3c00a8c0@george> Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > > If I recall correctly, the seminally useless 40/80 column switch on the > > //c was changed into a processor speed switch on the //c+. Look at the > > two little diagonal buttons on the left side of the case just above the > > keyboard. > > Replaced with a volume slider. I had to check right away, because it'd be > just like be to miss something so hard to find as a knob on the top... ;) > Somewhere I know I saw how to do it, but as I never planned on finding > a ][c+, I didn't bother to rememeber. :/ I know one of them was replaced by a volume knob but I could've swore one of them was changed to the processor speed setting. The other switch was the slightly less useless QWERTY/Dvorak setting. Who the hell uses Dvorak? A very interesting and unique feature to have on a computer (anyone else know of a computer that had a switch that would instantly change the keymapping between QWERTY and Dvorak?) but all it ended up doing most of the time is confusing clueless users who would accidentally press the switch not knowing what it was (or other people pressing the switch to befuddle the next user, especially in computer classroom settings) and ending up with a computer that would be seemingly outputting gibberish when you typed. What is the other switch for? I don't have a //c+ handy to check, and I couldn't find anything in my quick and lazy web search. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Aug 30 12:45:01 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: //c+ switch settings, QWERTY/Dvorak (was Re: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <64898.128.146.70.172.1030729505.squirrel@www.gcfn.org> > On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > What is the other switch for? I don't have a //c+ handy to check, and > I couldn't find anything in my quick and lazy web search. You're not going to believe what it (still) does... > > Sellam Ismail Bob From foo at siconic.com Fri Aug 30 12:53:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: //c+ switch settings, QWERTY/Dvorak (was Re: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little In-Reply-To: <64898.128.146.70.172.1030729505.squirrel@www.gcfn.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Robert F Schaefer wrote: > > On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > > > What is the other switch for? I don't have a //c+ handy to check, and > > I couldn't find anything in my quick and lazy web search. > > You're not going to believe what it (still) does... So the shenanigans continued with the //c+ :)\ I found this in Section 2.4 of the Apple ][ FAQ: The IIc+ normally boots at high (4Mhz) speed, but if you hold down the 'escape' key on boot/reboot, it'll drop down to normal speed until the next reboot. http://www.gno.org/pub/apple2/doc/FAQs/csa2.part1.txt This is the same way the TransWarp accelerator works on my Apple //e. You press ESC when it's booting (the TransWarp has control of the system first and fades in the "TransWarp" logo, during which time you can hit the key) and it boots under regular speed (which is to say it hands control to the mainboard 6502, whereas normally it takes control of the system with it's on-board accelerated 6502). You can also poke a byte (any byte will do) to location $C074 and it will disable the TransWarp. You normally have to reset after this, and the effect is permanent until you power cycle the computer. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Aug 30 13:13:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: //c+ switch settings, QWERTY/Dvorak (was Re: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > This is the same way the TransWarp accelerator works on my Apple //e. You > press ESC when it's booting (the TransWarp has control of the system first > and fades in the "TransWarp" logo, during which time you can hit the key) > and it boots under regular speed (which is to say it hands control to the > mainboard 6502, whereas normally it takes control of the system with it's > on-board accelerated 6502). OK, now I've never gotten to play with one of these. How exactly does it hijack the system like this? Does it use some software trick to halt the motherboard proc, or is there a bus line that lets it grab control, like the /LOCK line* that's on an 80x86? It'd be interesting to design a different replacement processor for the system, maybe even some sort of ICE based that uses a (cheap, old) PC for control. * I have never used this in practice, but from reading about the processor I believe this is what it does (allows a peripheral to steal the processor bus). -- Pat From red at bears.org Fri Aug 30 13:28:01 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: seeking Sun CG4 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020830094000.349f9eca@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Joe wrote: > Bear, > > I'm not famoilar with the bigger Suns so you'll have to tell me how > to tell how to id a DG4. I know where there are two large Sun computers > at the moment. I believe one is a 2/60 but I'm not sure what the other > is. The 3/60 is a 'large pizzabox' desktop chassis. It should have a badge on the front that says '3/60'. The CG4 is a color framebuffer, and may preset itself as either 4 BNC connectors or a 13W3 connector on the back panel of a machine it's installed in. A CG6 will present itself as a 13W3 connector in the same space. There is another add-on framebuffer that I'm not interested in, which is the MG3. The way to tell from the back panel is that a 13W3 _and_ a DE9F connector (in the 'mono' cutout) will be present. I'm not interested in the MG3. The CG4 was available on other Sun models as well, and while the reverse isn't generally true, CG4s from these models will work in the 3/60. 3/80 4/110 4/330 (SPARCstation 330) There might be more I can't think of off the top of my head. Generally, Sun didn't put model identification badges on systems until the Sun3 era, but even still if you find a Sun 2/anything (or a 1/anything, for that matter), I want to hear about it. (: Thanks! ok r. From mythtech at mac.com Fri Aug 30 13:40:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: OT: Global Village OneWorld Fax Message-ID: This item is still off topic for another few years (introduced in 1995), but I want to ask here because I know most of us have large piles of assorted equipment. I just aquired a Global Village OneWorld Combo Fax/Network modem. But it lacks the power supply brick for it. Do any of you per chance have one of these things (or the sister units the Network Fax, or just Network Modem). And if so, can you tell me the pinouts and power specs so I can locate/build a new power supply? It uses a mini din 3 connector. The connector is the same style used on apple local talk cables (3 pins plus a 4th plastic guide block). I am assuming it will end up being AC power, and one pin each for hot, neutral, and ground. The manual says it uses a Din 8 for external 110v power adaptor... but I REALLY think the 8 pin connector is for the localtalk support. Localtalk boxes never came with a 3 pin plug for connecting to a device, only 8 pin, and the symbol over the 8 pin is a typical localtalk double arrow and matches the symbol over one of the status lights in the front. The symbol over the 3 pin is a typical AC wave symbol, that port is also right next to the on/off switch. Internally there isn't enough components to regulate a 110 connection, so the brick must step it down to something else. Anyone got one of these and can tell me the specs? I did some googling, but no luck finding anything helpful (I will try Global Village directly, but I think they have more or less died off since Zoom took them over as part of the Boca buyout). -chris From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Aug 30 14:19:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: //c+ switch settings, QWERTY/Dvorak (was Re: IIc+ mouse `A+ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <64929.128.146.70.178.1030735154.squirrel@www.gcfn.org> > On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Robert F Schaefer wrote: > >> > On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: >> >> > What is the other switch for? I don't have a //c+ handy to check, >> > and I couldn't find anything in my quick and lazy web search. >> >> You're not going to believe what it (still) does... > > So the shenanigans continued with the //c+ :)\ > > I found this in Section 2.4 of the Apple ][ FAQ: You'd think I would check the obvious places for something like this, wouldn't you? :/ In my defense, I've been busy restoring the payroll database from a nearly-blank QIC backup tape... :( > Sellam Ismail Bob From hansp at aconit.org Fri Aug 30 14:19:43 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: PDP-9 lives again.... Message-ID: <3D6FC52A.5050201@aconit.org> Some 20 odd years after it was decommisioned we finally got our PDP-9 to boot software off an old DECTape. Advanced Software System version 5A came up today for the first time on our restored -9. This after a long and frustrating summer when we spent over 100 man hours chasing a processor fault which resulted in the execution of the saved PC value after an interrupt (instead of the word after the saved PC value). Turned out to be a misaligned delay circuit which caused a reset signal to arrive late and provoke all sorts of havoc in the processor while nicely reseting all the tell-tales. Seems like the memory and processor hardware is quite stable now. We have two DECtape units attached with two more units availabe to be attached. Further debug on the DECtapes and learning the software will be followed by attachemnt of TU20 mag tape units. If anyone knows of an available (and cheap) large X-Y plotting scope preferably somewhere in europe we would be very interested in hearing from you. We have a graphics controller but no large screen. With the screen, the DECtapes and the TU20's this is going to be one impressive system. We also used the -9 for the first time today to try and recover an image from an old Elliott 903 paper tape I was given in the UK recently. Due to operator error that attempt failed but I fully expect to be able to get a tape image this weekend. -- hbp From hansp at aconit.org Fri Aug 30 14:21:01 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: Compuer history conference: Grenoble FRACNE, november 2002 Message-ID: <3D6FC55A.1030302@aconit.org> As part of the celebration of "50 years of Computing in Grenoble", the Association for a Conservatory of Information Technology (ACONIT) in partnership with the Association for the History of Telecommunications and Informatique (AHTI) and the Federation des Equipes Bull (FEB) is organising the 6th international conference on the History of Computing and Networks. This international conference is supported by Institut de Math?matiques appliqu?es de Grenoble (IMAG) and other european institutions. This, the 6th conference in the series History of Computing, presided by Jean Carteron, founder of STERIA, returns to the site of the first such conference held in Grenoble in 1988. Papers selected this year by the programme committee, chaired by Pierre-Eric Mounier-Kuhn, research historian at the CNRS and by Louis Pouzin, pionneering researcher of networks in Europe., cover recent studies of the subject and gather important eye witness accounts of the history of computing and networking. The conference is one of the events in the celebration of "50 years of computing in Grenoble" which also includes an exhibition tracing the impact of computing on life in Grenoble illustrated by exhibits from the ACONIT collection. This admission free exhibition is open to the public 23 November to 2 December at the prestigious Musee de Grenoble. Conference registration is now open on the web site. For further information regarding the conference or exhibition contact ACONIT : Tel : +33 (0)4.76.48.43.60 Web : http://www.aconit.org/colloque2002 Email : mailto:colloque2002@aconit.org Or write : ACONIT/COLLOQUE2002 10 bis Rue Ampere BP 267 38016 Grenoble Cedex FRANCE -- hbp From quapla at xs4all.nl Fri Aug 30 14:37:00 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: PDP-9 lives again.... References: <3D6FC52A.5050201@aconit.org> Message-ID: <3D6FC81D.60293854@xs4all.nl> Nice!. Now the next question: when may we see some pictures (via a web link)? Ed Hans B Pufal wrote: > > Some 20 odd years after it was decommisioned we finally got our PDP-9 to > boot software off an old DECTape. Advanced Software System version 5A > came up today for the first time on our restored -9. > > This after a long and frustrating summer when we spent over 100 man > hours chasing a processor fault which resulted in the execution of the > saved PC value after an interrupt (instead of the word after the saved > PC value). Turned out to be a misaligned delay circuit which caused a > reset signal to arrive late and provoke all sorts of havoc in the > processor while nicely reseting all the tell-tales. > > Seems like the memory and processor hardware is quite stable now. We > have two DECtape units attached with two more units availabe to be > attached. Further debug on the DECtapes and learning the software will > be followed by attachemnt of TU20 mag tape units. > > If anyone knows of an available (and cheap) large X-Y plotting scope > preferably somewhere in europe we would be very interested in hearing > from you. We have a graphics controller but no large screen. With the > screen, the DECtapes and the TU20's this is going to be one impressive > system. > > We also used the -9 for the first time today to try and recover an image > from an old Elliott 903 paper tape I was given in the UK recently. Due > to operator error that attempt failed but I fully expect to be able to > get a tape image this weekend. > > -- hbp -- From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Aug 30 14:41:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: PDP-9 lives again.... In-Reply-To: <3D6FC52A.5050201@aconit.org> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020830144045.01b541b0@ubanproductions.com> Very nice! For a temporary X/Y screen solution, you might consider using a display from any of the Atari vector graphics games, such as Asteroids. They should be cheaply available -- most were made by Wells Gardner. --tom At 09:19 PM 8/30/2002 +0200, you wrote: >Some 20 odd years after it was decommisioned we finally got our PDP-9 to >boot software off an old DECTape. Advanced Software System version 5A >came up today for the first time on our restored -9. > >This after a long and frustrating summer when we spent over 100 man hours >chasing a processor fault which resulted in the execution of the saved PC >value after an interrupt (instead of the word after the saved PC value). >Turned out to be a misaligned delay circuit which caused a reset signal to >arrive late and provoke all sorts of havoc in the processor while nicely >reseting all the tell-tales. > >Seems like the memory and processor hardware is quite stable now. We have >two DECtape units attached with two more units availabe to be attached. >Further debug on the DECtapes and learning the software will be followed >by attachemnt of TU20 mag tape units. > >If anyone knows of an available (and cheap) large X-Y plotting scope >preferably somewhere in europe we would be very interested in hearing from >you. We have a graphics controller but no large screen. With the screen, >the DECtapes and the TU20's this is going to be one impressive system. > >We also used the -9 for the first time today to try and recover an image >from an old Elliott 903 paper tape I was given in the UK recently. Due to >operator error that attempt failed but I fully expect to be able to get a >tape image this weekend. > > -- hbp > > > From dpeschel at eskimo.com Fri Aug 30 14:57:00 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: //c+ switch settings, QWERTY/Dvorak (was Re: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse') In-Reply-To: ; from foo@siconic.com on Fri, Aug 30, 2002 at 02:32:30AM -0700 References: <001401c2500f$65bcd1c0$3c00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <20020830125658.A12973@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Fri, Aug 30, 2002 at 02:32:30AM -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > If I recall correctly, the seminally useless 40/80 column switch on the Does that mean "useless from the time when it was created" or "useless and spreading its uselessness to all its descendants"? :) Do you know of a program that actually read that switch? The expansions that made the ][+ into the //e and //c were rather complicated, and yet not complete enough (I wish they had made all the soft switches readable -- I hate write-only registers). > Who the hell uses Dvorak? A very interesting and unique feature to have > on a computer (anyone else know of a computer that had a switch that would > instantly change the keymapping between QWERTY and Dvorak?) No, but I do know that the same feature existed on the //e (i.e. before the //c came out) but it was only accessible by changing internal wiring. I read about this in an issue of Call A.P.P.L.E. which (of course) I no longer have. And the _original_ Dvorak layout had the numbers in the order 1 3 5 7 9 0 8 6 4 2 or something like that. I have too much work to do to look it up right now. -- Derek From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Aug 30 15:28:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: PDP-9 lives again.... In-Reply-To: from "Hans B Pufal" at Aug 30, 2002 09:19:06 PM Message-ID: <200208302028.g7UKSgo16139@shell1.aracnet.com> > Some 20 odd years after it was decommisioned we finally got our PDP-9 to > boot software off an old DECTape. Advanced Software System version 5A > came up today for the first time on our restored -9. Any chance of making the software available for use under SIMH? Zane From foo at siconic.com Fri Aug 30 15:32:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: //c+ switch settings, QWERTY/Dvorak (was Re: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > OK, now I've never gotten to play with one of these. How exactly does it > hijack the system like this? Does it use some software trick to halt the > motherboard proc, or is there a bus line that lets it grab control, like > the /LOCK line* that's on an 80x86? Slot 3 on the Apple //e bus is a special slot. Normally, if you have an 80-column card plugged into the special auxiliary slot, you can't use slot 3 for anything else, but the TransWarp is an exception. It was designed to co-reside with the 80-column card without conflicting, and so takes advantage of a completely empty (and otherwise useless) slot. I don't know the actual technical process since I never looked into it, but in essence I imagine what the TransWarp does is pulls some signal to let the bus know that it is in control and then takes over that way. I should dig out my copy of the //e technical reference manual to find out exactly what's going on. I imagine it could work in any slot, but I haven't read the documentation in years, don't know exactly where it is, and don't have the time to experiment right now :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Aug 30 15:40:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: //c+ switch settings, QWERTY/Dvorak (was Re: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse') In-Reply-To: <20020830125658.A12973@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Derek Peschel wrote: > On Fri, Aug 30, 2002 at 02:32:30AM -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > > If I recall correctly, the seminally useless 40/80 column switch on the > > Does that mean "useless from the time when it was created" or "useless and > spreading its uselessness to all its descendants"? :) Both I guess. It didn't actually change the display. It was supposed to be a way for the user to indicate their screen width preference. It basically set a flag in memory (a so-called "soft-switch") that applications could choose to honor or ignore. I can't recall any application that ever honored it for any reason. Maybe a word processor was made that did, but I don't know about it. It's a stupid switch. Either your program sufficed with 40-columns or 80-columns. If you had 80-columns and you were a word processor, why let the user type in 40-columns instead? Maybe they were using a TV, but that was their fault. Go buy a monochrome display. The switch is complete nonsense. > Do you know of a program that actually read that switch? The expansions > that made the ][+ into the //e and //c were rather complicated, and yet not > complete enough (I wish they had made all the soft switches readable -- > I hate write-only registers). Yes, it would have been nice in some (very very very) rare instances to know what graphics mode you were in, for instance. Or what bank of memory you were in. Mostly from a cracking standpoint I guess. > No, but I do know that the same feature existed on the //e (i.e. before > the //c came out) but it was only accessible by changing internal > wiring. I read about this in an issue of Call A.P.P.L.E. which (of > course) I no longer have. Wow, crazy. I never knew that, or even heard of it. In fact I want to see a source before I believe it :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From allain at panix.com Fri Aug 30 15:41:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: //c+ switch settings, QWERTY/Dvorak (was Re: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse') References: <001401c2500f$65bcd1c0$3c00a8c0@george> <20020830125658.A12973@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <005001c25065$7a598000$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Who the hell uses Dvorak? A very interesting and unique feature to have > on a computer (anyone else know of a computer that had a switch that would > instantly change the keymapping between QWERTY and Dvorak?) winD'oh!s has a Dvorak option. I reshuffled one of my removeable cap IBM keyboards for this purpose. Seems to work OK, for short demonstrations at least. It's a safe bet it will reveal some Brave New Bugs if used for longer stretches. John A. From mlnealey at earthlink.net Fri Aug 30 16:21:19 2002 From: mlnealey at earthlink.net (Mike & Yvonne Nealey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: Hello and Intro... Message-ID: <001f01c2506a$d01640f0$0b01a8c0@wintermute> Hello, Just wanted to introduce myself. I collect older computers, mainly mini's and Unix workstations. I have stuff from most of the companies that made any of the above types of computers. I enjoy getting machines that work, or are close to working, and actually using them. I also enjoy working with older versions of Operating Systems and software. My ultimate goal is to get a network of machines together and available to the Internet for others with the same interest to access and enjoy. I've just recently moved to the Dallas/Fort Worth area of Texas so if there are any other collectors/hobbyists in the area I would love to talk to you! Please send me an email and we'll chat about the hobby and maybe we can do some trades. Thanks, Mike N. mlnealey@earthlink.net P.S. I believe this post should be on topic because I am over 10 years old. From dpeschel at eskimo.com Fri Aug 30 16:49:01 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: //c+ switch settings, QWERTY/Dvorak (was Re: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse') In-Reply-To: ; from foo@siconic.com on Fri, Aug 30, 2002 at 05:39:13AM -0700 References: <20020830125658.A12973@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <20020830144851.A22945@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Fri, Aug 30, 2002 at 05:39:13AM -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Derek Peschel wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 30, 2002 at 02:32:30AM -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > > If I recall correctly, the seminally useless 40/80 column switch on the > > > > Does that mean "useless from the time when it was created" or "useless and > > spreading its uselessness to all its descendants"? :) > > Both I guess. It didn't actually change the display. It was supposed to I just realized that "seminally useless" could also mean "unable to have descendants", as in "its sperm is useless". :) > > Do you know of a program that actually read that switch? The expansions > > that made the ][+ into the //e and //c were rather complicated, and yet not > > complete enough (I wish they had made all the soft switches readable -- > > I hate write-only registers). > > Yes, it would have been nice in some (very very very) rare instances to > know what graphics mode you were in, for instance. Or what bank of memory > you were in. Mostly from a cracking standpoint I guess. Writing a debugger is what I had in mind. In that case the feature is vital. Otherwise it's pretty unimportant. I still hate write-only registers on principle. (Because then the OS has to keep a copy, and you have to trust that people won't use the real register, etc.) > > No, but I do know that the same feature existed on the //e (i.e. before > > the //c came out) but it was only accessible by changing internal > > wiring. I read about this in an issue of Call A.P.P.L.E. which (of > > course) I no longer have. > > Wow, crazy. I never knew that, or even heard of it. In fact I want to > see a source before I believe it :) You find me an archive of Call A.P.P.L.E. magazines, I'll find you a source. -- Derek From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Fri Aug 30 16:50:15 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: OpenVMS/Alpha Games? References: <200208282205.g7SM5Iu03164@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3D6FC09D.9010801@Vishay.com> Zane, let me throw in 3 cents: Sokoban - native Tetris - vested Yahtzee - vested Maybe Tetris and Yahtzee are on some of the collections suggested by other answers, but Sokoban (at least this version) will probably not be there: this was my first C program (after HELLO_WORLD.C ;-). It dates back to 1988 (perfectly on-topic! ;-) and was originally developed on a VAX. One function was originally written in MACRO-32 because I initially couldn't figure out how to deal with string descriptors, but I replaced it with a C version in 2000, when I ported the game to an Alpha. One of the development goals was to save bandwidth, and the result was that it is possible to play using a 300 baud line, even though a stopwatch is running on the VT screen. Let me know if you want a BACKUP saveset. The complete Sokoban stuff, with program sources and maps for 50 levels, including VAX and Alpha .EXEs, is 63 files, 212 blocks total. Yahtzee is 46+190 blocks for VAX+Alpha .EXE, Tetris is 26+104 blocks. Of the latter, I also have a DECwindows version, as of some other games. All mentioned games known good on OpenVMS/AXP V7.1-2 here, so they should be working on 7.2, too. Andreas Zane H. Healy schrieb: > I'm trying to get a selection of games that will work on a Serial Terminal > up and running on my OpenVMS server (a PWS 433au running OpenVMS 7.2-1H1). > I'm finding that most games that are available for VMS date back to VAX/VMS > V3 or earlier. Does anyone know of any besides the following that will > work? > > Advent 4.0A - Native > Dungeon 3.2B - Native > Empire 4.0 - Native > NetHack 3.3.1 - Native > Moria 4.5 - Vested > Rogue 3.0 - Vested (doesn't seem to display right) > King - Native > Spacwr - Native (very old Star Trek game) > Spacemine - Native (Ported from an old book of Basic Games I've had > for about 20 Years) > Angband 2.8.0 - Native (but requires DECwindows) > > I'm really looking for copies of the following that will work on an Alpha > running OpenVMS: > Angband (that will work on a serial terminal) > Rogue (a version that works right) > zcode emulator > Decent Star Trek game > DND > Moria 4.8 or 5.0 > Newer version of Empire > Conquest > > I'm also interested in any other good ones that I might not know about. > > Zane -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Aug 30 17:14:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: Hello and Intro... References: <001f01c2506a$d01640f0$0b01a8c0@wintermute> Message-ID: <00df01c25072$a3f03f00$c1000240@oemcomputer> Welcome to the list and to Texas, I'm in the Houston area but I do travel around looking for stuff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike & Yvonne Nealey" To: Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 4:18 PM Subject: Hello and Intro... > Hello, > > Just wanted to introduce myself. I collect older computers, mainly mini's > and Unix workstations. I have stuff from most of the companies that made any > of the above types of computers. I enjoy getting machines that work, or are > close to working, and actually using them. I also enjoy working with older > versions of Operating Systems and software. My ultimate goal is to get a > network of machines together and available to the Internet for others with > the same interest to access and enjoy. > > I've just recently moved to the Dallas/Fort Worth area of Texas so if there > are any other collectors/hobbyists in the area I would love to talk to you! > Please send me an email and we'll chat about the hobby and maybe we can do > some trades. > > Thanks, > Mike N. > mlnealey@earthlink.net > > P.S. I believe this post should be on topic because I am over 10 years old. > > From hansp at aconit.org Fri Aug 30 17:26:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: PDP-9 lives again.... References: <200208302028.g7UKSgo16139@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3D6FF106.9010001@aconit.org> Zane H. Healy wrote: >>Some 20 odd years after it was decommisioned we finally got our PDP-9 to >>boot software off an old DECTape. Advanced Software System version 5A >>came up today for the first time on our restored -9. > > > Any chance of making the software available for use under SIMH? Sure thing, anything we bring up that is not already available for SIMH will be made available. ADSS V5A is already availbale for SIMH though. -- hbp From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Aug 30 18:28:01 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: //c+ switch settings, QWERTY/Dvorak (was Re: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse') In-Reply-To: Sellam Ismail's message of "Fri, 30 Aug 2002 05:39:13 -0700 (PDT)" References: Message-ID: <200208302305.g7UN5cJd062637@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Derek Peschel wrote: > > No, but I do know that the same feature existed on the //e (i.e. before > > the //c came out) but it was only accessible by changing internal > > wiring. I read about this in an issue of Call A.P.P.L.E. which (of > > course) I no longer have. > > Wow, crazy. I never knew that, or even heard of it. In fact I want to > see a source before I believe it :) http://www.syndicomm.com/~a2.ryan/The_Lamp/Text/2001/TLMP0102.TXT Search for "[DKE]". -Frank McConnell From foo at siconic.com Fri Aug 30 18:44:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: //c+ switch settings, QWERTY/Dvorak (was Re: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse') In-Reply-To: <20020830144851.A22945@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Derek Peschel wrote: > I just realized that "seminally useless" could also mean "unable to have > descendants", as in "its sperm is useless". :) True. I just throw big words into my sentences to make myself seem impressive (sometimes I don't even know what I'm writing and it just happens to work out). Checking with the online thesaurus it is grammatically feasible to say "seminally useless" in the sense I meant it, which is to say it was bunk from the get go. > Writing a debugger is what I had in mind. In that case the feature is Right. I hadn't thought of that. I suppose a few latchable LEDs hooked into decoders in the address path at the right places might work for that sort of thing, if not kludgily so. > You find me an archive of Call A.P.P.L.E. magazines, I'll find you a > source. Are you coming to VCF this year? I can let you dig around in the magazine boxes until you come across them. Of course, it will probably take you all weekend :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Aug 30 18:54:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:00 2005 Subject: //c+ switch settings, QWERTY/Dvorak (was Re: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse') In-Reply-To: <200208302305.g7UN5cJd062637@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On 30 Aug 2002, Frank McConnell wrote: > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Derek Peschel wrote: > > > No, but I do know that the same feature existed on the //e (i.e. before > > > the //c came out) but it was only accessible by changing internal > > > wiring. I read about this in an issue of Call A.P.P.L.E. which (of > > > course) I no longer have. > > > > Wow, crazy. I never knew that, or even heard of it. In fact I want to > > see a source before I believe it :) > > http://www.syndicomm.com/~a2.ryan/The_Lamp/Text/2001/TLMP0102.TXT > > Search for "[DKE]". As always, I love the web. Everything you never needed to know and more. So it's a feature that's been hiding in the keyboard controller. Very neat. Thanks for looking that up. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From sloboyko at yahoo.com Fri Aug 30 18:56:01 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: PDP-9 lives again.... In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020830144045.01b541b0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <20020830235550.34590.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com> You can pick up Tektronix X-Y displays fairly cheap but they are small. I picked up 2 perfectly good ones that just needed cleaning and a new cord plug for $15.00 ea locally. I missed a BIG HP unit (with about a 9" screen) that went for only ~$20 on eBay. --- Tom Uban wrote: > Very nice! > > For a temporary X/Y screen solution, you might > consider using a display > from any > of the Atari vector graphics games, such as > Asteroids. They should be cheaply > available -- most were made by Wells Gardner. > > --tom > > At 09:19 PM 8/30/2002 +0200, you wrote: > >Some 20 odd years after it was decommisioned we > finally got our PDP-9 to > >boot software off an old DECTape. Advanced Software > System version 5A > >came up today for the first time on our restored > -9. > > > >This after a long and frustrating summer when we > spent over 100 man hours > >chasing a processor fault which resulted in the > execution of the saved PC > >value after an interrupt (instead of the word after > the saved PC value). > >Turned out to be a misaligned delay circuit which > caused a reset signal to > >arrive late and provoke all sorts of havoc in the > processor while nicely > >reseting all the tell-tales. > > > >Seems like the memory and processor hardware is > quite stable now. We have > >two DECtape units attached with two more units > availabe to be attached. > >Further debug on the DECtapes and learning the > software will be followed > >by attachemnt of TU20 mag tape units. > > > >If anyone knows of an available (and cheap) large > X-Y plotting scope > >preferably somewhere in europe we would be very > interested in hearing from > >you. We have a graphics controller but no large > screen. With the screen, > >the DECtapes and the TU20's this is going to be one > impressive system. > > > >We also used the -9 for the first time today to try > and recover an image > >from an old Elliott 903 paper tape I was given in > the UK recently. Due to > >operator error that attempt failed but I fully > expect to be able to get a > >tape image this weekend. > > > > -- hbp > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 30 19:55:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: Need PC-AT "keyboard BIOS" docs In-Reply-To: <20020830055000.58249.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Aug 29, 2 10:50:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1135 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020830/2ff5b6fb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 30 19:56:07 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: //c+ switch settings, QWERTY/Dvorak (was Re: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little In-Reply-To: <64898.128.146.70.172.1030729505.squirrel@www.gcfn.org> from "Robert F Schaefer" at Aug 30, 2 01:45:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 300 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020830/751d5b38/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 30 19:56:40 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: //c+ switch settings, QWERTY/Dvorak (was Re: IIc+ mouse `A+ In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Aug 30, 2 05:31:04 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1648 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020830/b6c09dec/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 30 19:57:17 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: //c+ switch settings, QWERTY/Dvorak (was Re: IIc+ mouse `A+ In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Aug 30, 2 05:39:13 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1203 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020830/ed66adc8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 30 19:58:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: Hello and Intro... In-Reply-To: <001f01c2506a$d01640f0$0b01a8c0@wintermute> from "Mike & Yvonne Nealey" at Aug 30, 2 04:18:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1363 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020830/bd48f95b/attachment.ksh From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Fri Aug 30 20:25:00 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: VAX 7000 schematics/info? References: <200208302305.g7UN5cJd062637@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <007901c2508d$3ab311a0$0300a8c0@geoff> A friend in the states has acquired a Vax 7000-620. Looking for schematics or some info on the power supplies with a view to conversion to single phase. ISTR someone here had a 7000, can anyone help? Cheers Geoff in OZ From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Aug 30 20:26:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: //c+ switch settings, QWERTY/Dvorak (was Re: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little References: Message-ID: <011301c2508d$779f61e0$3c00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 8:36 PM Subject: Re: //c+ switch settings, QWERTY/Dvorak (was Re: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little > > > > > On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > > > > > What is the other switch for? I don't have a //c+ handy to check, and > > > I couldn't find anything in my quick and lazy web search. > > > > You're not going to believe what it (still) does... > > Stupid guess... Reset .vs. ctrl-Reset ? Dvorak vs. qwerty, just like the ][c. It was kind of amusing to push the button, and watch the wrong letters some up. Too bad the switch doesn't change the keycaps too! > > -tony Bob From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Fri Aug 30 20:27:00 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: Hello and Intro... References: Message-ID: <009201c2508d$8a88ff00$0300a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 10:12 AM Subject: Re: Hello and Intro... > For minis, I have quite a few DEC printsets (but then a lot of people > here do as well), Anything on Vax 6000/7000 series? Cheers Geoff From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Fri Aug 30 20:28:00 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: Hello and Intro... References: <001f01c2506a$d01640f0$0b01a8c0@wintermute> Message-ID: <009301c2508d$ab850eb0$0300a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike & Yvonne Nealey" To: Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 6:48 AM Subject: Hello and Intro... > Hello, > > Just wanted to introduce myself. I collect older computers, mainly mini's > and Unix workstations. You have come to the right place. Welcome. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 30 20:32:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: Need PC-AT "keyboard BIOS" docs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020831013234.40013.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > How exactly is your board designed? > > The UART is local to the 68000 which sits on the OMNIBUS.... > In which case, assuming you have some spare space in the 68K's memory map > (and I can't believe that you don't) Plenty of spare memory space. The basic COMBOARD design is the top two address bits select local RAM vs shared memory vs I/O vs ROM. The RAM area is 4MB of space with 32KB (2114s) or 128KB (4116s) or 512KB (41256) or 2MB of RAM (44256s). All the DRAM models use a 74S409 for refresh. There is a COM 5025 or Zilog Z8530 for Bisync/HDLC comms, and on most models, a parallel port for a dataproducts or (with external printer adapter) DEC LA180. The original model uses the second port of the 6821 for an external programmers console - blinkenlights for debugging. The shared memory (in all the later models) is big fun - the 68K has up to 22 bits of what it thinks is local memory. The shared memory circuit, when enabled by a bit in the CSR, turns those memory accesses into DMA cycles on the host bus. The code that moves buffers on and off the board, looks just like a memory-to-memory block copy. The shared memory circuit holds the 68000 off until the DMA cycle repeats. Timeouts are possible but a sign of very bad things. As an aside, I have used this feature, in conjunction with a Fluke 9010 and 68K pod to test RAM chips on Qbus boards. > then the easiest solution is to wire up the 8042 to the 68K's bus. Look > at the PC/AT schematics in the TechRef to see what's needed I'll do that when I get to the hard design phase. I still have to figure out how I'm going to make a bunch of TTL cause a databreak cycle. > Alternatively you could wire up an LK201 to the UART, but you really need > both halves of the UART to communicate with the LK201. It is _very_ > useful to be able to send it commands... Ah. Wasn't sure about that. I guess the uVAX2000 _does_ dedicate an entire serial port to just the keyboard when in workstation mode. Thanks for all the advice. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From dpeschel at eskimo.com Fri Aug 30 21:08:00 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: //c+ switch settings, QWERTY/Dvorak (was Re: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse') In-Reply-To: ; from foo@siconic.com on Fri, Aug 30, 2002 at 08:43:09AM -0700 References: <20020830144851.A22945@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <20020830190758.A10730@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Fri, Aug 30, 2002 at 08:43:09AM -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Derek Peschel wrote: > > You find me an archive of Call A.P.P.L.E. magazines, I'll find you a > > source. > > Are you coming to VCF this year? I can let you dig around in the magazine > boxes until you come across them. Of course, it will probably take you > all weekend :) Yes, I'm coming. If it will take two days to dig around then I'll just come two days early and stay at your house. :) Frank and Tony already answered the particular question about the keyboard, but of course there are many other good things hiding in Call A.P.P.L.E. issues. -- Derek From OwnedByDogs at clearsource.net Fri Aug 30 21:26:01 2002 From: OwnedByDogs at clearsource.net (Kevin Monceaux) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: Hello and Intro... In-Reply-To: <001f01c2506a$d01640f0$0b01a8c0@wintermute> Message-ID: Mike, Welcome to Texas. I'm just a little ways down the road from you, in Waco. I would love to hear about your collection. I'm currently in the want to start collecting catagory. I've recently started checking out the VMS hobbyist program. I was a volunteer operator on a VAX 11/750 back in college. Currently I'm running VMS on an emulator but would love to get some real VAX hardware. If you come across any VAX hardware in the Dallas area in need of a good home, that you don't want to adopt, let me know. Kevin On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Mike & Yvonne Nealey wrote: > Hello, > > Just wanted to introduce myself. I collect older computers, mainly mini's > and Unix workstations. I have stuff from most of the companies that made any > of the above types of computers. I enjoy getting machines that work, or are > close to working, and actually using them. I also enjoy working with older > versions of Operating Systems and software. My ultimate goal is to get a > network of machines together and available to the Internet for others with > the same interest to access and enjoy. > > I've just recently moved to the Dallas/Fort Worth area of Texas so if there > are any other collectors/hobbyists in the area I would love to talk to you! > Please send me an email and we'll chat about the hobby and maybe we can do > some trades. > > Thanks, > Mike N. > mlnealey@earthlink.net > > P.S. I believe this post should be on topic because I am over 10 years old. > From foo at siconic.com Fri Aug 30 22:59:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: //c+ switch settings, QWERTY/Dvorak (was Re: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse') In-Reply-To: <20020830190758.A10730@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Derek Peschel wrote: > Yes, I'm coming. If it will take two days to dig around then I'll just > come two days early and stay at your house. :) Frank and Tony already > answered the particular question about the keyboard, but of course there > are many other good things hiding in Call A.P.P.L.E. issues. Look, I'll let you loose in there, but I just want you to be sure you know what you're getting yourself into ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jrice at texoma.net Fri Aug 30 23:34:00 2002 From: jrice at texoma.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: Hello and Intro... References: <001f01c2506a$d01640f0$0b01a8c0@wintermute> Message-ID: <3D7047F3.2040905@texoma.net> Welcome to the list and DFW, Mike. I'm in the DFW area. I live in Rockwall, but work all over the metroplex. James Mike & Yvonne Nealey wrote: >Hello, > >Just wanted to introduce myself. I collect older computers, mainly mini's >and Unix workstations. I have stuff from most of the companies that made any >of the above types of computers. I enjoy getting machines that work, or are >close to working, and actually using them. I also enjoy working with older >versions of Operating Systems and software. My ultimate goal is to get a >network of machines together and available to the Internet for others with >the same interest to access and enjoy. > >I've just recently moved to the Dallas/Fort Worth area of Texas so if there >are any other collectors/hobbyists in the area I would love to talk to you! >Please send me an email and we'll chat about the hobby and maybe we can do >some trades. > >Thanks, >Mike N. >mlnealey@earthlink.net > >P.S. I believe this post should be on topic because I am over 10 years old. > > > > > From curt at atari-history.com Fri Aug 30 23:46:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: Hello and Intro... References: <001f01c2506a$d01640f0$0b01a8c0@wintermute> Message-ID: <006801c250a9$14a75180$01000001@cvendel> Old Computers and Operating Systems.... who would want that old junk... oh hey wait, that would be all of us. I forgot ;-) Hey welcome to us lunatics keeping these dusty diodes up and running, I'm the resident Atari Maniac with a side fetish for Mindset and Corvus systems, now playing with a VAX..... Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike & Yvonne Nealey" To: Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 5:18 PM Subject: Hello and Intro... > Hello, > > Just wanted to introduce myself. I collect older computers, mainly mini's > and Unix workstations. I have stuff from most of the companies that made any > of the above types of computers. I enjoy getting machines that work, or are > close to working, and actually using them. I also enjoy working with older > versions of Operating Systems and software. My ultimate goal is to get a > network of machines together and available to the Internet for others with > the same interest to access and enjoy. > > I've just recently moved to the Dallas/Fort Worth area of Texas so if there > are any other collectors/hobbyists in the area I would love to talk to you! > Please send me an email and we'll chat about the hobby and maybe we can do > some trades. > > Thanks, > Mike N. > mlnealey@earthlink.net > > P.S. I believe this post should be on topic because I am over 10 years old. > From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Aug 31 00:47:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: PDP-9 lives again.... In-Reply-To: <3D6FF106.9010001@aconit.org> References: <200208302028.g7UKSgo16139@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >Sure thing, anything we bring up that is not already available for SIMH >will be made available. Great! >ADSS V5A is already availbale for SIMH though. > > -- hbp It is? Where? Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Aug 31 07:01:00 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: SGI Indigo.. In-Reply-To: <10208300033.ZM17790@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10208292309.ZM17667@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <10208300033.ZM17790@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: > > I also have a rebadged Logitech mouse, model# M-S43, SGI >> part# 063-0010-001, that is dark gray, almost black in color. It's >> PS/2 and I've used it on my Indigo2 in place of the granite >> 063-0009-001, which I also have. > >Unusual. Any idea what it was originally for? Do you know if there was a >matching keyboard? I put a query on Usenet concerning the mouse and I got a reply back stating that it had shipped with the 230/330/550 line of workstations, as well as being shown in some product shots of the Octane2. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Aug 31 11:26:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: Hello and Intro... References: <001f01c2506a$d01640f0$0b01a8c0@wintermute> <006801c250a9$14a75180$01000001@cvendel> Message-ID: <3D70ED67.4080103@jetnet.ab.ca> Curt Vendel wrote: > Old Computers and Operating Systems.... who would want that old junk... oh > hey wait, that would be all of us. I forgot ;-) Old junk err old stuff ... that could also apply to tube audio ( now making a comeback) and tube radio. I guess more diverse STUFF needs to be collected. :) From alberto at a2sistemi.it Sat Aug 31 12:08:00 2002 From: alberto at a2sistemi.it (Alberto Rubinelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: Memorex 3261 In-Reply-To: <3D70ED67.4080103@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: I'm saving from destruction two tape unit Memorex 3261. In the past they was used widh an AS/400 system. Someone know a link or other information on these machines ? Thanks in advance. ------------------------------------------------------ Alberto Rubinelli Mail : alberto@a2sistemi.it A2 SISTEMI Web : www.a2sistemi.it Via Costantino Perazzi 22 Tel 0321 640149 28100 NOVARA (NO) - ITALY Fax 0321 391769 Visita il mio museo di vecchi computers: http://www.retrocomputing.net ICQ : 49872318 ODIGO : 5269083 ------------------------------------------------------ From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Aug 31 13:13:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: //c+ switch settings, QWERTY/Dvorak (was Re: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse') In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Derek Peschel wrote: > > Yes, I'm coming. If it will take two days to dig around then I'll just > > come two days early and stay at your house. :) Frank and Tony already TWO DAYS?!? On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Look, I'll let you loose in there, but I just want you to be sure you know > what you're getting yourself into ;) Naaah. Let him in, and let him out when he finishes cataloging your entire collection. From kris at catonic.net Sat Aug 31 13:38:00 2002 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: PDP-9 lives again.... In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020830144045.01b541b0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > For a temporary X/Y screen solution, you might consider using a display > from any > of the Atari vector graphics games, such as Asteroids. They should be cheaply > available -- most were made by Wells Gardner. what about an o-scope? Or I am being hideously naive about a computer older than I am? -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR TGIFreeBSD IM: 'KrisBSD' "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!" This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security From hansp at aconit.org Sat Aug 31 14:54:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: PDP-9 lives again.... References: Message-ID: <3D711EE0.2080608@aconit.org> Kris Kirby wrote: > On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Tom Uban wrote: >>For a temporary X/Y screen solution, you might consider using a display >>from any >>of the Atari vector graphics games, such as Asteroids. They should be cheaply >>available -- most were made by Wells Gardner. > what about an o-scope? Or I am being hideously naive about a computer > older than I am? Not at all, in fact that is what we use at the moment. The problem is that the screen is far too small to provide any audience participation when the computer is on display (pardon the pun). -- hbp > > -- > Kris Kirby, KE4AHR TGIFreeBSD IM: 'KrisBSD' > "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!" > This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 31 14:58:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: Hello and Intro... In-Reply-To: <009201c2508d$8a88ff00$0300a8c0@geoff> from "Geoff Roberts" at Aug 31, 2 10:56:48 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 258 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020831/aeb14c0d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 31 14:58:28 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: Need PC-AT "keyboard BIOS" docs In-Reply-To: <20020831013234.40013.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Aug 30, 2 06:32:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 424 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020831/d09d63c4/attachment.ksh From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Aug 31 15:05:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: Um, OK.... Message-ID: One of the well-known two-edged factors in collecting like we do is the fact that all your friends/neighbors/colleagues/family decide you're a better option than Goodwill. "Don't throw out that rusty 3.5" floppy drive! Doc _collects_ that stuff!" So when one of said friends makes a beeline for me at the meeting this morning, and says "I heve a TRUNK FULL of stuff for you!" I just smile and say "Oh, cool!" She's really excited about giving me this stuff.... We go out to her car and, yep. Four desktop floppy storage boxes. An obviously dead, stripped Deskjet 520. Random power cables and phone cords. An AT keyboard, sans most of the caps. And then, O. My. Gods. Two complete and apparently perfect Texas Instruments "Silent 700" data terminals. One is roughly the shape of, and a little bigger than, a Zenith 286 portable with built-in acoustic coupler, and the other is smaller, in a soft carrying case, with external coupler and I think those are two spare battery packs. All righty then! I never had an actual printing terminal before. This looks like hours and hours of frust^H^H^H^H, um, fun. Doc From curt at atari-history.com Sat Aug 31 15:28:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: Hello and Intro... References: <001f01c2506a$d01640f0$0b01a8c0@wintermute> <006801c250a9$14a75180$01000001@cvendel> <3D70ED67.4080103@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <003501c2512c$b77bf400$01000001@cvendel> When you guys start trading tips on how to work an Abacus I will start to get worried ;-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Franchuk" To: Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 12:23 PM Subject: Re: Hello and Intro... > Curt Vendel wrote: > > Old Computers and Operating Systems.... who would want that old junk... oh > > hey wait, that would be all of us. I forgot ;-) > Old junk err old stuff ... that could also apply to tube audio > ( now making a comeback) and tube radio. I guess more diverse > STUFF needs to be collected. :) > > > From foo at siconic.com Sat Aug 31 15:30:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: //c+ switch settings, QWERTY/Dvorak (was Re: IIc+ mouse `A+ Little Mouse') In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Aug 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > Look, I'll let you loose in there, but I just want you to be sure you know > > what you're getting yourself into ;) > > Naaah. Let him in, and let him out when he finishes cataloging your > entire collection. SHHHH! You'll clue him in to my plans! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Aug 31 15:31:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: PDP-9 lives again.... In-Reply-To: <3D711EE0.2080608@aconit.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Aug 2002, Hans B Pufal wrote: > Not at all, in fact that is what we use at the moment. The problem is > that the screen is far too small to provide any audience participation > when the computer is on display (pardon the pun). If you don't find a suitably sized display, try mounting a video camera aimed at the display and then project that image to a big screen. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sat Aug 31 15:32:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: PDP-9 lives again.... In-Reply-To: <3D711EE0.2080608@aconit.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Aug 2002, Hans B Pufal wrote: > Kris Kirby wrote: > > what about an o-scope? Or I am being hideously naive about a computer > > older than I am? > > Not at all, in fact that is what we use at the moment. The problem is > that the screen is far too small to provide any audience participation > when the computer is on display (pardon the pun). Although this is not a good option for purists, it may be suitable for for sizable audiences. You might try using a software oscilloscope, one that takes its inputs from a soundcard. I'd imagine that one could use a stereo capable soundcard to provide X/Y inputs. Then, given a large monitor or a video projector, you could have a more adequately sized display. There seem to be a couple packages available for Windows and here's one for Linux: http://xoscope.sourceforge.net/ -brian. From bqt at update.uu.se Sat Aug 31 15:55:01 2002 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #151 - 51 msgs In-Reply-To: <20020831170000.4782.83.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: "Geoff Roberts" wrote: > A friend in the states has acquired a Vax 7000-620. Looking for schematics > or some info on the power supplies with a > view to conversion to single phase. ISTR someone here had a 7000, can > anyone help? I have one here, but I also have 3-phase. :-/ Sorry, no schematics on a 7000 power supply available. No schematics whatsoever actually. I do have full schematics on the PDP-11/70 on the other hand. :-) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From mythtech at mac.com Sat Aug 31 16:01:01 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: Um, OK.... Message-ID: > One of the well-known two-edged factors in collecting like we do is >the fact that all your friends/neighbors/colleagues/family decide you're >a better option than Goodwill. "Don't throw out that rusty 3.5" floppy >drive! Doc _collects_ that stuff!" Oh gee, and I just have the a-hole friends that use me for tech support for the life of their computer, and then when they decide to upgrade it, they throw out the old one without even ASKING if I wanted it!!!! (sorry, I'm a bit bitter since a friend's younger brother just did this to me. He had an iMac that he bought used, and had been having problems with, and has been using me for the last two years for support to keep it running. Well, he got sick of it this week, and bought a new one. I found out last night when my friend was raving about how great his brother's new iMac G4 was... and when I asked what he did with the old one, I just about drove over there to choke the living shit out of the kid when I was told that it went in the garbage on Wednesday's curbside pickup) -chris From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Aug 31 16:35:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: Um, OK.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Aug 2002, Chris wrote: > > One of the well-known two-edged factors in collecting like we do is > >the fact that all your friends/neighbors/colleagues/family decide you're > >a better option than Goodwill. "Don't throw out that rusty 3.5" floppy > >drive! Doc _collects_ that stuff!" > > Oh gee, and I just have the a-hole friends that use me for tech support > for the life of their computer, and then when they decide to upgrade it, > they throw out the old one without even ASKING if I wanted it!!!! (sorry, > I'm a bit bitter since a friend's younger brother just did this to me. He Oh. Well, yeah. They're mostly the same folk. As contradictory as that sounds, it is really the truth. > had an iMac that he bought used, and had been having problems with, and > has been using me for the last two years for support to keep it running. > Well, he got sick of it this week, and bought a new one. I found out last > night when my friend was raving about how great his brother's new iMac G4 > was... and when I asked what he did with the old one, I just about drove > over there to choke the living shit out of the kid when I was told that > it went in the garbage on Wednesday's curbside pickup) Argh. I think we all have a whole collection of experiences like that. Let me guess. "But I thought you only like OLD Macs?" Doc From djg at drs-esg.com Sat Aug 31 16:42:00 2002 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: PDP-9 lives again.... Message-ID: <200208312142.RAA13234@drs-esg.com> >>ADSS V5A is already availbale for SIMH though. >> >> -- hbp > >It is? Where? > > Zane > It was on http://simh.trailing-edge.com/, I can't seem to get to the site right now. The image was recently switched because macro wasn't working correctly on the previous one (sorted out by Hans, thanks). It now should be a copy of my tape s2.tu56 PDP-15 Master Tape S2 Page Mode (V5A Jan 24 1981) The site also had instruction on how to boot it. The rest of the pdp-9/15 tapes I have read are in ftp://ftp.pdp8.net/pdp9-15/ I don't have an actual 9/15 to run them on. Anybody have a spare? Not all seemed to work with the emulator. Nice to hear the machine is running again. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Aug 31 17:25:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: WTD: CDP1861 and other RCA COSMAC parts Message-ID: <010a01c2513d$0bcf8700$0100000a@deepspacenine> Hi, I'm currently trying to build a COSMAC Elf, but unfortunately I can't find any RCA CDP1861 "Pixie" video controllers anywhere. Has anyone got some spares they feel like parting with? I've nearly got everything I need to build an Elf, sans the Pixie chip. Some CDP1822 COSMOS RAMs would also be nice. Right now I don't care if the parts are NOS, pulls or NOS in need of serious cleaning. I just want these parts so I can build a COSMAC Elf! Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ PGP Key ID: 0x0E18C95F PGP Key Fingerprint: 2741 5CB7 1D45 6F77 D1FC FA3D 7A87 2DA4 0E18 C95F From foo at siconic.com Sat Aug 31 18:09:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: Um, OK.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Aug 2002, Chris wrote: > Oh gee, and I just have the a-hole friends that use me for tech support > for the life of their computer, and then when they decide to upgrade it, > they throw out the old one without even ASKING if I wanted it!!!! > (sorry, I'm a bit bitter since a friend's younger brother just did this > to me. He had an iMac that he bought used, and had been having problems > with, and has been using me for the last two years for support to keep > it running. Well, he got sick of it this week, and bought a new one. I > found out last night when my friend was raving about how great his > brother's new iMac G4 was... and when I asked what he did with the old > one, I just about drove over there to choke the living shit out of the > kid when I was told that it went in the garbage on Wednesday's curbside > pickup) Well, at least you can have solace in knowing that he's a very bad person for sticking toxic waste (as defined under California environmental law) into the garbage. Next time, let him know in advance that you'll be wanting the system once he upgrades ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Aug 31 18:40:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: Looking for SIMMs for PS/2 P70 386 Message-ID: <004501c25147$cf047960$3c00a8c0@george> Thanks to the local college boyz, I now have a slightly misused P70 to play on. The previous owner was kind enough to break off the retaining clips when he pulled the memory, but other than that it seems to be usable. Booting without any memory elicts a `211' error early in the POST, and booting with one or more of 8MB (IIRC) SIMMS gives a 225 error. I did a little research, and it seems that the max SIMM it'll take is a 2MB parity part, I know don't have any of those. Anyone happen to have a spare 8MB kit? Also, I'm looking for the S/370 card for it, if anyone has an extra they'd like to get rid of. ^_^ Bob From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Aug 31 18:57:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: SGI Indigo.. In-Reply-To: Jeff Hellige "Re: SGI Indigo.." (Aug 31, 8:02) References: <10208292309.ZM17667@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <10208300033.ZM17790@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <10209010059.ZM19273@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Aug 31, 8:02, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > I also have a rebadged Logitech mouse, model# M-S43, SGI > >> part# 063-0010-001, that is dark gray, almost black in color. > I put a query on Usenet concerning the mouse and I got a > reply back stating that it had shipped with the 230/330/550 line of > workstations, as well as being shown in some product shots of the > Octane2. Ah, that makes sense. I've never paid much attention to those funny Intel things that SGI plasyed with for a while, but AFAIR some of them did have that sort of colour scheme. I wondered if the mouse had been from a rebadged machine, but 230/330/550 sounds more likely. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From mythtech at mac.com Sat Aug 31 20:46:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: Um, OK.... Message-ID: > Oh. Well, yeah. They're mostly the same folk. As contradictory as >that sounds, it is really the truth. Amazing how that is huh. They'll give you all the real junk, but toss the stuff that is of interest. >Let me guess. "But I thought you only like OLD Macs?" No, it was more along the lines of "Well, it never worked right for me anyway". My retort was simply "Yeah, but you're a moron" (I've known his brother since I was in the 3rd grade... so I can get away with calling him a moron and not fear that he will stiff me when he junks the iMac G4 in a month when he craps it up too.) And to add insult to my weekend... I just got back from my sister's house (had to fix her PC, her kids shoved the power button clean out of the front of the case). It seems her husband did the same thing to me. They got a new PC, and she planned to turn the old one into a kids gaming computer. But her husband decided it was taking up space and gave it to some guy he knows from work last month. At least I don't mind half as much with this one, it was only a P180 Compaq, this little black, non expandable desktop unit. And it went to another user rather than the trash. No serious loss. (although it would have made a nice tiny netBSD server since the thing was little bigger than a VCR) -chris From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sat Aug 31 21:11:02 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: ASR33 questions Message-ID: <013801c2515b$28cc0bd0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> I just received one of William's ASR33s and it appears to be in good working order. I am not at all familiar with these machines so I have a few questions about their operation and interfacing. First off, when I power on this unit the "main" motor doesn't run. It turns when moved manually, but it won't move by itself. Depending on the motor position at power-up (I think) I sometimes hear what sounds like a warning buzzer. Is there something I'm doing wrong? How would I run this machine in "local" mode? Once I figure out that this machine is working (I assume the problems are mine and not the machines) I'd like to hook it up to my Altair (which is now running great thanks to Dwight!). How would I go about doing this? I'm guessing I'll need some sort of box to interface between the TTY and RS232, but I haven't yet found any information on that. Can anyone point me to an article, website or some other source of information on this? If I manage to get that all done, is there anyone on this list who has software on paper tape that I could get copies of? I'd be most interested in a BASIC variant and any BASIC programs that could run on it, but anything else would be great. What am I missing? Is there anything else I should know? Thanks! Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computing.com From Qstieee at aol.com Sat Aug 31 21:11:52 2002 From: Qstieee at aol.com (Qstieee@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: DG Aviion & 3 phase supplies Message-ID: <7A0381BE.5674CF07.001A265C@aol.com> While I agree with the other answer that often there are several single phase supplies inside, connected to separate phases, note that there are some commercial solutions if you truly have one big power supply with a three phase primary on the transformer. See http://www.phaseconverter.com/ and http://www.phase-a-matic.com/ for example. These devices have a long life time and can be found on industrial surplus markets (which of course are on the web too) From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Aug 31 21:12:26 2002 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: Looking to program a N82S181 In-Reply-To: <200208270045.RAA19684@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200208270045.RAA19684@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <200208281921400737.25B78435@192.168.42.129> Hi, Dwight, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 26-Aug-02 at 17:45 Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >Hi > Is there anyone that is in the silicon valley area >that can program N82S181's? I'm about 800 or so miles north (southeast of Seattle), but I can program those if you don't mind doing mail order. >Also, does anyone have >a source for or N82S181C parts? Yikes... No idea on that one. That particular part came from Signetics, and Signetics was bought out many moons ago by Phillips. You might try plugging the device number into the Google search engine and see what happens. My programming rates are on my web site at http://www.bluefeathertech.com/devices.html Let me know if you want to do the programming. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From tony at baechler.net Sat Aug 31 21:12:56 2002 From: tony at baechler.net (Tony Baechler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: Old DOS software Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020829080446.00a76190@207.148.227.193> Hello all. I am looking for MSDOS software from the early 1980's. I have some leads, but not many. Specifically, what I want is the entire PC-BLUE, PC-SIG, and any other similar collections. I would prefer to download them from someone and burn my own CDs but if you have them on CD-ROM and you are willing to sell that is fine. Here are what leads I have. I looked on google for PC-BLUE and found that oak.oakland.edu apparently had everything but are long gone. I used to download from there in 1997 but apparently there are no full mirrors left. However, ftp.mirror.ac.uk has several disks but nothing past 1989. I know that there were more than this by a 1991 post I found from the old simtel20 indicating that volumes were still being added. I would like the full set, even files into the 1990's. Regarding PC-SIG, google showed almost nothing at all. I tried every set of keywords I could think of, but there is very little to be found. Again, ftp.mirror.ac.uk had quite a bit but cut off at 1989. I know they had at least 1,000 disks, probably over 2,000. I used to download them from a local BBS many years ago, so I know they sold a CD-ROM. If I could buy or download that somehow I would be very happy. They are now out of business. Amazon might have it but I doubt it since they cannot get them from the publisher and have been known to offer items which they did not really have. Finally, I found another directory called COMUG which I assume was another user group. Does anyone know if there are any other disks from them besides those posted? I am in the US. You can write either on or off-list if you can help. I have no ftp upload space unfortunately. I can use .iso CD images. Sorry if this is off topic, but the FAQ seems to not be working. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Aug 31 21:13:25 2002 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: Fwd: FW: Looking for REAL old parts (IBM 5155 + 5170) References: <15442-3D6E2A37-201@storefull-2298.public.lawson.webtv.net> Message-ID: <200208291623050153.2A3A4E28@192.168.42.129> Got a fellow here offering up an old IBM 5160 PC. If anyone is interested, please contact him directly. Thanks much. *********** BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** On 29-Aug-02 at 07:05 williamkepler@webtv.net wrote: > You have an antique query on the web about an antique system.......I >aquired an IBM 5160. If I can't find a modulator for it I will attempt >to sell it.....interested ? > It has CGA and the rest of the usuals. 2 5 1/4 floppy drives and >10Mb hard. > > *********** END FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From sid.jones at gb.abb.com Sat Aug 31 21:20:53 2002 From: sid.jones at gb.abb.com (sid.jones@gb.abb.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: Looking for Intel pds Prom programming software Message-ID: This is a very late reply to the above message (read in 2002!) but I have a few bits and pieces of Intel memorabilia loitering in my archives. Can't remember if I've dumped the 2nd hand PDS I owned, but I've still got the system discs.. Sid Jones email : jonesthechip@logicmagic.co.uk From macmcc3 at aol.com Sat Aug 31 21:21:23 2002 From: macmcc3 at aol.com (macmcc3@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: Info needed: Old video card Message-ID: <12f.16bcc2d1.2aa0ea4c@aol.com> I am looking for the EISA "CFG" file for the trident tvga8900c video card. If you have it or know where I can get it, it would be appreciated. Mac Mccurdy mac_mcc3@juno.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020831/3a8f880b/attachment.html From jfrim at idirect.com Sat Aug 31 21:21:58 2002 From: jfrim at idirect.com (Justin Frim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: Quick intro and requests Message-ID: Hello, Just a quick introduction... My name's Justin, and I've been collecting old computers for quite a while now. Just joined the list today. :) Now for a requests: Among my collection is an NEC ProSpeed 286 laptop computer, which seems to be in full working condition. The only problem is I have no manuals, drivers, or utilities for it. I couldn't find anything on the internet despite extensive searching, and contacting NEC support as well as scouring through the NEC FTP site. My specific problems are I can't switch to the external video output, or activate the serial port, parallel port, or internal modem (which I think is 2400 bps). Second, I have a 486 Philips P 3464 server tower, which I think runs at 25 MHz but I'm not completely sure. Likewise, I don't have any software or documentation for it. Fortunately, I do have the key which was conveniently stuck in the keyswitch when I picked up the computer! And although it looks like it has a ROM based BIOS setup complete with a debugger, I have no idea how to use it's arcane interface and I can't even get the computer to boot from a hard drive! If anyone has any information on these computers, drivers, utilities, setup programs, etc, please let me know! Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. -Justin From justin at frontierproductions.com Sat Aug 31 21:22:37 2002 From: justin at frontierproductions.com (Justin Wheeler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: Misc computer boards available for trade Message-ID: <3D71028E.2060602@frontierproductions.com> Hi, I am looking for a Truevision NuVista+ video capture card for an old Apple Quadra 950 computer of mine made in 1990. Any ideas where to find one? Justin From vcf at siconic.com Sat Aug 31 21:23:07 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: Zenith SuperSport Message-ID: The following system is available in New York, NY. Not free but taking offers: Zenith Data Systems supersPORT SX, model ZWL-0300-10, serial number 039DF001098. In addition, I have (i) two rapid charge batteries, model ZA-180-85, for the unit, (ii) two Handok model CL40-7601 110 - 240 volt, 50/60 Hz AC power supply units, part number 150410-2, serial numbers 890610730 and 90055756, and (iii) (w) Zenith Data Systems external full card expansion unit model ZA-3040-EB, serial number 009EE002110. Reply privately for contact information. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dna63 at optonline.net Sat Aug 31 21:23:36 2002 From: dna63 at optonline.net (Dennis Aruta) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:01 2005 Subject: ASR 33, KSR 43, Friden Flexowriter Message-ID: <3D70F66B.F3702610@optonline.net> Perhaps you may have some interest in these machines? Currently have 3 ASR 33's 2 with omni modems, one with relays 1 KSR 33 programable 1 Friden Flexowriter, that I saw as imput to a cray computer at a computer museum on the web. From ekklein at pacbell.net Sat Aug 31 21:24:06 2002 From: ekklein at pacbell.net (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:02 2005 Subject: ASR33 questions Message-ID: <011e01c25143$5f46cf50$6e7ba8c0@piii933> I just received one of William's ASR33s and it appears to be in good working order. I am not at all familiar with these machines so I have a few questions about their operation and interfacing. First off, when I power on this unit the "main" motor doesn't run. It turns when moved manually, but it won't move by itself. Depending on the motor position at power-up (I think) I sometimes hear what sounds like a warning buzzer. Is there something I'm doing wrong? How would I run this machine in "local" mode? Once I figure out that this machine is working (I assume the problems are mine and not the machines) I'd like to hook it up to my Altair (which is now running great thanks to Dwight!). How would I go about doing this? I'm guessing I'll need some sort of box to interface between the TTY and RS232, but I haven't yet found any information on that. Can anyone point me to an article, website or some other source of information on this? If I manage to get that all done, is there anyone on this list who has software on paper tape that I could get copies of? I'd be most interested in a BASIC variant and any BASIC programs that could run on it, but anything else would be great. What am I missing? Is there anything else I should know? Thanks! Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computing.com From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Aug 31 22:00:00 2002 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:02 2005 Subject: id this Data I/O part In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020829160242.5d2fe66e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20020829160242.5d2fe66e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200208311858380137.351547B0@192.168.42.129> Hi, Joe, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 29-Aug-02 at 16:02 Joe wrote: >I found a small circuit board marked "Data I/O", "702-1072" and "Plug in >Adapter". There is also a paper label on the board that says "910-1347-1 >E". It has two 16 pin DIP ICs on it. I can't see their part numbers >because they have paper labels on them. The board mounts using three metal >standoffs and has a row of 14 pins along the left and right hand edges. >Can anyone tell me what it is? It sounds like something from the old System 19 programming setup, but I can't be certain. Perhaps someone else? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From rhudson at cnonline.net Sat Aug 31 23:27:00 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:02 2005 Subject: Any body know anything about :Laser P5 Message-ID: <200208312126.18554.rhudson@cnonline.net> It's a small keyboard and 80x8 line display. built in software seems to be a word processor, spreadsheet, calculator, database (1 text field), Phone numbers, spell checker. seems to be aimed at the ed market. I picked it up because there is a legend on the outside that suggests it runs some kind of BASIC, but the option turned out to be a keyboarding drill. Anyway, found lots of surface stuff on the web, but I am interested in: 1) what processor 2) pinout of IO port on back 3) Can I add a BASIC (I don't mind if I can junk the WP et all at the same time) here's the Place that made it: http://www.perfectsolutions.com Hey Sellam, what would you want to trade for it? : ^ ) Thanks! ron From fernande at internet1.net Sat Aug 31 23:44:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:02 2005 Subject: Info needed: Old video card References: <12f.16bcc2d1.2aa0ea4c@aol.com> Message-ID: <3D719B2B.90602@internet1.net> macmcc3@aol.com wrote: > I am looking for the EISA "CFG" file for the trident tvga8900c video > card. If you have it or know where I can get it, it would be appreciated. > > Mac Mccurdy > > mac_mcc3@juno.com What is the name of the cfg file? If you put the card in a slot, the EISA config program should ask for a specific file name. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA